Jezebel reports today on the case of receptionist/data entry clerk Tamara Klopfenstein:
After working for a few weeks, her (male) bosses asked her to get their coffee for them. She declined, and her manager e-mailed her, saying: “This is not open for debate. Please don’t make an easy task a big deal.” Klopfenstein felt that getting coffee “reinforced outdated gender stereotypes,” so the next day, when she was asked to get coffee again, she sent an e-mail that read: “I don’t expect to serve and wait on you by making and serving you coffee every day.” Nine minutes later, she was fired. Klopfenstein promptly sued the company for sexual discrimination and sexual harassment. The judge ruled: “The act of getting coffee is not, by itself, a gender-specific act,” and dismissed the case. But Klopfenstein’s attorneys argue that “Some tasks are inherently more offensive to women.”
Seriously? So are her lawyers arguing that asking a male receptionist to get coffee would be okay, but it’s not okay if she’s a woman?
I don’t want anyone fetching me coffee. And in fact, I sometimes bring my staff coffee. But if I asked someone to do a task that could reasonably fall in their purview (and like it or not, getting coffee isn’t crazy for a receptionist), after having already had to talk to them about it once, and they replied with Klopfenstein’s snippy email, I’d think about firing them too. And who says something that attitude-laden three weeks on the job?
(Although to be more precise, I wouldn’t fire the person on the spot. I’d warn them and explain my expectations and what sorts of responses are and aren’t acceptable, and I’d find out if the person was interested in working under those conditions. Still, I can understand why they fired her immediately — she demonstrated an attitude problem that was unlikely to go away.)
And I am a woman, if that matters, which it doesn’t.
{ 16 comments… read them below or add one }
I read about this as well. I don’t know if the report is accurate, but I heard that being “the coffee go getter / maker” was discussed during the interview as one of the expected job duties. I also read that she initially was cool with it but then after a few days decided she wasn’t.
Personally? I can’t imagine asking someone to get coffee for me. That is just weird. But, whatevs.
What is so offensive about getting coffee? Honestly. You’re being paid by the damn hour. Get the coffee. It’s not that hard.
I feel like normally I would be on the side of this woman but her attitude about it is kind of out of line. No matter how low on the totem pole I was, no one has ever asked me to get them coffee. Sure, they’ve made other unreasonable requests, but if you’re entry level you kind of just have to suck it up and smile. Her really poor attitude is just annoying.
Yes, it’s easy to assume it’s gender biased. It does sound like the bosses have a bit of a alpha male going on. However, I’m assuming HR Wench is right, so she was aware of it. The woman also sounds pretty young. Yeah, it stinks because it reinforces that she has no authority yet. However some of the best bosses I’ve ever had were the ones who weren’t too proud to do small, servant-like tasks.
Stupid lawsuits indeed! I would never feel comfortable asking a employee (male or female, entry-level or not) to get me a coffee (except I don’t drink coffee, so it would be a hot chocolate).
By the same token, I would never take a job that requires me to make coffee for anyone. My previous boss once asked me to do it and I made him instant, not plunger, with eight teaspoons of coffee and three of sugar.
I never got asked again.
But that was right out of my job description and was his way of trying to make me into his personal assistant rather than what my job actually was.
You hit the proverbial nail on the head, Jessica! Beat them at their own game..be smart. A LONG time ago, I was “expected” to make coffee (once) for the warehouse crew. Well, even at the tender age of 20-something, I was able to figure a PC way out of that one. I made the coffee (once!) – I made it SO STRONG no one could drink it. I told them that’s how I drank it in Germany. No one ever expected me to make coffee again. (I was with that particular company for 5 years after that!)
Hmm, I find my own feelings so conflicted on this I had to write my own post on it!
Essentially I don’t think there’s anything wrong with her telling them no. I think her email manner would need work, but essentially, if she’s not getting paid as an assistant TO them, she shouldn’t be running at their beck and call for such a menial task.
Would I do it in her position though? Yeah, I probably would have made the damn coffee. Gah. I just don’t know!
I honestly don’t understand why everyone is upset over coffee. If the boss asked you to “run down to the supply closet and get more pens” would that elicit the same bitterness? It’s a drink, for goodness sakes.
At my office, every department has a coffee pot. When people have guests in their offices, they might ask an admin to run get coffee. It’s polite and it allows the meeting to continue. Generally, though, I’ve seen people offer to get coffee.
For the record, I don’t drink coffee and have never asked anyone to get me any, ever. I have, however, asked for paper, pens and various other menial assistance.
And if I knew my boss would be crabby without it, I’d bring her some every morning.
I love this. I once had a co-worker (we were both senior managers) from another office who asked me to make him coffee when he came to my office. He always had his coffee made for him at his own office ( he was the only male on staff there – hmmm).It said so much more about him than he realised! Did I make him coffee – what do you think?
I am not taking the gender line here though. I am wondering what kind of boss would write it specifically into a job description?
Regardless of how the bosses treated her and how she feels about fetching coffee, the lawsuit alleging that it’s inherently gender biased is stupid, and the judge was absolutely right to throw it out.
This whole coffee problem is the reason I decided, over 30 years ago, not to even start drinking coffee. If I didn’t know how to drink it I didn’t know how to make it, right? — tho I didn’t foresee the Starbucks explosion, which means assistants have to go get coffee, not make coffee.
But even about getting the coffee, I work in the public sector and if I got caught sending an assistant out for coffee on taxpayer-paid time, I’d be in trouble. It is, essentially, a personal favor along the lines of picking up someone’s dry cleaning.
Historically there is a gender related expectation about women making coffee for men. Is there now? Don’t ask me.
Now I shall go make myself another cup of tea.
There are people in this world (and I see many of them in this board) that see nothing wrong with, “get me those pens,” or “could you make me some coffee?” or “put some scotch tape on this for me” etc. These types of people love giving orders and always strive to put co-workers in servant role types of positions. They usually possess very small minds, zero creativity, no self-confidence, and believe that making themselves appear more “powerful” will boost their status in the company. I have worked for and with many of these types in various businesses and they are complete dweebs. Hold your ground against them, stay away from them, and by all means, avoid working for anyone like this.
Mimi said
I am a coffee go getter. My Office is on the ground floor, my boss has his office on the second floor.I lose count every day how many times I go up and down those stairs running errands for him. He calls me on my extension could I come to his office then when I get there he asks me for coffee, why can't he ask me when he calls my extension, that infuriates me. The best one is he is in a meeting he calls me into the meeting and asks for coffee' no problem ' I deliver the coffee, he then turns around and says oh I wanted mine in a mug. I can not express how hard it is for me to say nothing.
Hahaha!
I have my whole career thanks to my willingness to get/make the coffee! In my last semester of college, I decided the LAST thing I wanted to do was teach, but I had NO idea what I did want to do, so I sucked it up and finished my degree and figured I’d temp through the summer and then decide what to do. The first call I get was for data entry, and I turned it down because it was too far away/low paying (this was ten years ago, better economy!), then they called me back 10 minutes later and asked if I’d be interested in an Executive Assistant position with the same company (which technically, I was grossly under qualified for) for a much more reasonable salary, but the catch was that I had to be willing to make the coffee. My agency rep wasn’t sure if it was every day or for meetings, I just had to make the coffee, the last person wouldn’t/couldn’t do it, so they quit.
Being fresh out of college, I said sure, I figured making coffee would be a “paying my dues” type thing. So, I show up for my first day and the first thing out of my mouth is, “Where’s the coffee pot? I was told I needed to make the coffee?”
Of course, it turns out that the other temp was crazy, they’d never asked her to make the coffee…the real issue is that there was no set tasks or anything for the job, you needed to be a self starter, and figure it all out on your own and ask questions, and know when to just be quiet and work. So what was supposed to be a summer job has turned into a 10 year (so far) career with 2 promotions and a decent salary (more than I would have made teaching although, less time off)!
All because I was willing to make the coffee… :)
It’s always interesting to me that people keeps saying: What’s a big deal about getting coffee, that’s what you do when you are at an entry level.
But what about when your position is an Executive Assistant like mine that doesnt’ really have a carrer path? I never had to get coffee in my past jobs, except for the very last one, with a boss who was very high maintenance like Mimi’s? All day long as I was busy getting her water, coffee (a few times a day), lunch, etc.
My current boss wouldn’t even dream of asking me to get her lunch, let alone coffee.
I’d be interested to hear from other EA’s about this topic
Seriously, you don’t get the gender powerplay here? I agree it should never have come to a lawsuit, but still…
There’s a vast difference between an assistant making her or his own coffee and making the bosses at the same time (‘I’m making coffee. The usual for you?’) and the ‘Girl, make coffee. Quick. Jump.’ vibe I get here. Good bosses, I have found, will be aware of the potentially icky power dynamic with the traditionally female assistant or reception roles (both situated firmly in the pink ghetto, as they say), and make sure their behaviour to their assistant is always respectful. It really depends on whether you see your assistant or receptionist as a valuable employee who can partner with you to add value to your business with her skills and experience, or simply a menial dogsbody to jump when you say ‘Jump!’. Also, in my experience as an executive assistant and, later, as a manager, I have observed distinct differences in manager’s attitude and expectations when it comes to female assistants/receptionists (traditional and still most common) vs male assistants/receptionists. Not all managers, certainly, but enough to say that we are not living in a post-sexist society.
Now, maybe in specific the instance above you could argue it was a fundamental difference of values and ‘fit’. The employee wasn’t comfortable with the company culture, and her employers consequently saw her as uncooperative and having a bad attitude. It would have been better for the woman in question to handle the situation professionally (although that word is too often used as code for ‘don’t make a fuss’) and simply serve the coffee, look for another job and move on, right?
Yes and no. Perhaps she handled the situation in an inflammatory way, but I don’t think it was fundamentally wrong for her to make her employers aware that their coffee-making expectations made her uncomfortable and could be perceived as perpetuating a sexist dynamic. The real question is: Would these employers have hired a male receptionist (i.e. had they EVER previously hired a male receptionist) and, if so, was coffee making explicitly part of his duties?