July 2010

after starting job, found out pay was lower than I’d asked for

July 30, 2010

A reader writes:

I was recently hired for a small retail gig while trying to make my way through college. I asked for $X amount on my application, and after I’d already been hired, my new manager said something along the lines of, “Oh, and I noticed you wanted $X.” And they started me about a dollar and a half below what I asked, saying that was the amount all new employees start at. I agreed, especially after he promised I would get pay increases steadily.

A couple of days later, I was chatting with another employee who had already been there about a month, and she mentioned that they started her off at the same amount I had originally asked for. And not to sound ungrateful, but my position is far more demanding than hers. So I’m kind of upset I’m not getting the pay I asked for, when others had. Should I do anything, or just deal and hope for that raise soon?

I wrote back to this writer to clarify, asking if he had accepted the job without confirming salary. He replied: “I did. Their hiring process was kind of sloppy, I never really had a chance to bring it up between the interview and my first day.”

So here’s where I’m going to chastise you. I don’t buy that there was no chance to bring it up between the interview and your first day. At some point they offered you a position, right? That’s when you bring up pay if they don’t. You just ask straightforwardly: “What is the pay rate?” (And even if they never made a formal offer and instead just called you to schedule your first day, which can happen in retail, you just need to be assertive: “Before putting me on the schedule, we need to talk about pay.”)

As you’ve now found out, you can’t assume they’re going to pay you the desired rate you put on your application! You have to ask.

And you need to have this discussion before you accept the job, because that’s when your negotiating power is at its highest. At that point, they don’t know if you’re willing to accept the job or not and they have more motivation to negotiate with you than after you’re already working there and have shown you’ll accept the lower rate.

As for your coworker, people have different rates of pay for all sorts of reasons — including because they negotiated at the time of hire.

You can’t really be upset that they offered you what they say is their standard new employee rate when you didn’t take the initiative to go after more. All you can really do at this point is to do a kick-ass job so that you can justify asking for a raise down the road.

And next time, make sure you do your salary negotiating before accepting the offer.

{ 18 comments }

Posted in salary

why am I getting calls about jobs outside my field of interest?

July 30, 2010

A reader writes:

I am currently looking for jobs online and have posted my resume on several job sites. I have received messages from potential employers regarding jobs for sales positions, but my resume states that I am currently looking for work in the clerical/administrative field. Why would a potential employer contact me for a position that I am clearly not interested in? Do I return those calls to these employers and politely decline, or do I leave these messages unanswered? 

Why do they contact you? Because they are lazy and possibly incompetent.<

Seriously, I’m not just being snide here. They’re not looking for sales professionals — they’re looking for warm bodies.

Do you need to return the calls in order to decline? It’s your call — you might find yourself having to fight off a sales pitch, or you might make a contact that could eventually prove useful, although I’m skeptical that they’re a particularly attractive employer.

Anyone want to argue this one differently?

{ 12 comments }

Posted in job searching

is it cheesy to send a thank-you on animal-themed stationary?

July 30, 2010

A reader writes:

I recently applied for a job at an animal care facility, and I made sure to note in my cover letter than I’m a compassionate animal (and people) person in hopes that this will show my personality and also put my resume at the top of the pile. If (hopefully when) I land an interview with this company, I plan on sending out a handwritten thank-you note afterwards. Is it too cheesy to write my note on animal-themed stationery if I keep it tasteful? I want to stand out from the crowd, but not in a bad way. What are your thoughts?

I say this as someone who used to work for an animal charity:  Skip the animal-themed stationary. Go with something more professional.
I keep saying that gimmicks don’t work; what makes you stand out is being a really strong candidate.  If you’re thinking of trying something to make yourself stand out that doesn’t really relate to your qualifications for the job, that’s a good sign that you might be going too far afield.

{ 12 comments }

Posted in thank-you notes

how long should a job be advertised?

July 28, 2010

A reader writes:

I work for a public library system and part of my job includes helping library directors and library boards (often at very small public libraries) with personnel management questions.

I read your blog every day and find and use and recommend it all the time. One of the things that happens too often at “my” libraries, I feel, is that they don’t advertise a vacancy for a long enough period of time. For example, a library board may advertise that they are hiring a new library director, for 2 weeks, sometimes even less. I try to impress upon them, when I get the opportunity, that 1 or 2 weeks isn’t long enough! 

I think the length of time a vacancy should be advertised may vary with the position (for example, I wouldn’t necessarily recommend advertising a part-time shelver position for a month), but something as important as a director (even for the smallest library, and even if it isn’t full time), I tend to think 4 weeks is not too long. I know there aren’t any hard and fast answers, but do you have any “rules of thumb”?

Great question!  I agree that two weeks isn’t long enough.

Part of the reason for that is this: I generally find a pattern with the way applications come in. When a job is first posted, there’s an initial rush of applications. These are in large part the people who are applying to everything they see for which they’re remotely qualified (and sometimes not even that) — the resume-bombers. That tends to be true for roughly the first week. Conversely, of the applications that come in toward the end of an application period, a much higher percentage of them are candidates who are very strongly matched with the job qualifications. I’ve concluded that this is because these are people who aren’t applying wildly every day — they’re being much more judicious in what they apply to, and they’re probably not looking as frequently because of that.

If you’re closing jobs after one or two weeks, you’re probably missing out on some really strong candidates who aren’t checking ads as frequently.

Disclaimer: This is absolutely not to say that there aren’t strong candidates in the first week, or that everyone who applies toward the end is a strong match. I don’t want anyone to read this and decide that they shouldn’t apply to a job if it’s only been posted for a day; that’s not what you should take from this. I’ve hired plenty of people who have applied early on. These are just overall trends.

So back to your question: How long is long enough to keep a job advertised? I’d say a minimum of three weeks, and four is better.

I’ll usually start my initial round of phone interviews around the third week, but I’ll keep the job open meanwhile.  In fact, I’ve pretty much gotten rid of application “deadlines” all together — I’ll accept applications until the job is filled. The bar does move higher and higher if we’re nearing the end of the interviews; at that point, a candidate would really need to be a rock star to get added into the mix … but I don’t want to close the door to someone absolutely fantastic just because of an arbitrary deadline.

{ 13 comments }

Posted in hiring

my boss asks job candidates about their marital status, children, and church!

July 27, 2010

A reader writes:

Recently, I sat in on an interview with the VP of our department, and the questions he asked potential candidates included, “Are you married? Do you have any children? What are your activities? Are you involved in your church or activities such as scouting?” How do I address the fact that these questions are off-limits in a tactful way? I am only newly hired, and I’ve heard that the VP doesn’t handle criticism well.

Well, he’s allowed to ask about hobbies and community involvement, but you’re right that asking about marriage, children, or religion is a really bad idea.

First, a legal note:  While the act of asking these questions isn’t illegal (although many people mistakenly believe that it is), what is illegal (in the U.S., anyway) is rejecting a candidate based on her answers to them. Therefore, since employers aren’t permitted to factor in your answers, there’s no point in asking them and smart interviewers, or interviewers who have ever spoken to a lawyer, don’t ask them. In addition, because so many people think the questions themselves are illegal, it’s a really good way to make a candidate really uncomfortable.

Okay, back to your question — on how to approach your VP about this. You have a couple different options:

First, the direct approach: You say the VP doesn’t take criticism well, but you could approach this as simple information-sharing. For instance: “Joe, I noticed you asked about marriage, children, and church in that interview. I was always taught that there were legal issues with asking those questions, because candidates who we don’t hire could claim we illegally discriminated against them based on their answers to those questions. I know that’s not at all why you were asking, but it’s been drilled into my head that those are red flag questions for candidates.”

Alternately, do you have an HR department? Can you discreetly suggest to them that they give this VP — or, even better, all employees who participate in interviews — some remedial guidance on what questions shouldn’t be asked?

If you talk to him yourself and he’s resistant (says “that’s not how we do it here” or whatever), you’ll probably need to resort to option #2 anyway, so if you think he’s likely to blow you off, you might want to just leap directly to option #2 and save yourself the trouble of appearing to go over his head after not liking his answer.

{ 26 comments }

Posted in advice about your boss, law + order

interviewing again after a prior unsuccessful interview

July 25, 2010

A reader writes:

A few months ago, I interviewed for an auditor position with my local county government. The interview didn’t go all that well (I tend to get nervous and babble too much, also I was ultimately not as good a match for the position compared to other candidates) and I wound up not being selected. I was in contention for the job due to an examination I took earlier in the year. I scored well enough on the exam to be pretty high on the candidate registry, which apparently means that anytime an accounting type job is open, I am contacted for an interview.

Long story short, this office apparently has another vacancy, and I have an interview with them next week. I am thinking there is a good chance I may be interviewed again by the same people who turned me down back in the spring. If so, they of course will know that I have a good deal of advance knowledge of what they will ask (they have a standard interview with four or five questions the candidate must respond to, then usually brief period to answer candidate questions). They may not even change the questions from last time.

I am not positive, but I think this may be for the same job as before. If so, do you have any advice how to proceed? I don’t feel like I did well at all in my prior interview, and am already a little anxious that the interviewers will be the same as before and will have some kind of bias based on my prior performance. And it is not as if anything has really changed as far as my qualifications for the job, the only thing I can really do is improve how I present myself.

Well, the good news is that you did well enough last time that they’re still interested in talking to you. You’re thinking they may have a leftover bias from last time, but it’s likely just the opposite — they remembered you as potentially being good enough to fill the job, which is why you have another interview. So that right there is a good sign that will hopefully shore up your confidence.

Things that I think will help:

* Think back to the last interview and try to remember everything you can — what were you asked? What kind of stumbles did you make? Were there ways in which you could have been better prepared? What do you wish you’d done differently? Take that knowledge and use it to prepare this time. Think very deliberately about how you want to come across, and then practice that — as in, sit in your living room, pretend you’re in the interview, and practice answering questions in a way that will reinforce whatever impression you want to give.  For instance, you felt you babbled last time, so practice giving more concise answers. You’ll feel ridiculous, but you’ll find yourself way more prepared when you’re in the real interview

* On the babbling issue … long, rambling answers usually have one of two causes: (1) You’re either someone who rambles in normal life too, possibly because you’re not paying attention to the other person’s cues, or because you don’t make a point of organizing your thoughts as you speak, or (2) You’re nervous. In your case, it sounds like #2.

I think nervous rambling often stems from feeling that the interviewer can’t possibly be satisfied with what you just said, so you’d better keep on going until a better answer comes out. Resist that feeling! You can always ask at the end of a shorter answer: “Does that give you what you’re looking for, or would you like me to go more in depth about this?” If the interviewer wants more, believe me, she’ll say so.

* Read this post on not being so nervous in interviews. Read the comments too.

Finally, as someone who has been on the other side of this, I don’t think you have to worry too much about being permanently tainted by your earlier interview. Interviewers know that people get nervous. I’ve done interviews where I’ve thought, “Damn, this candidate is so nervous that I’m not able to see what she’d be like to work with day-to-day — I can’t hire her because her nerves are getting in the way of us having a real conversation, but I wish there were a way to talk to her without the nerves because for all I know, she could be great.” If that candidate then reappeared a year later with the nerves under control, I’d be glad to get a chance for another conversation, and I wouldn’t hold the earlier interview against her.

Remember:  You scored very high on the exam. They’ve wanted to interview you twice now. You have the benefit of the previous interview informing your preparation for this one. It seems to me that you’re pretty well positioned for this, as long as you don’t freak yourself out. So prepare, prepare, prepare, and good luck!

{ 7 comments }

Posted in interviewing

is having “company president” on my resume hurting me?

July 25, 2010

A reader writes:

I’m having trouble getting interviewed and I feel my resume is to blame, but I think my unique situation may also share some of that trouble.

My husband and I own a small construction company. I’m actually majority owner, and we employ between five to 15 employees depending on our job load. My actual duties include everything from payroll to tax preparation to AR and AP, HR responsibilities, advertising, customer service, and public relations (which is what I hold my degree in.)

I am not happy and have decided to pursue another career. However, any job I have applied for, I have not gotten an interview. I think employers see “president” on my resume and immediately throw it away because they assume I will ask for a higher salary than they are prepared to pay. Or they think maybe I am overqualified, or will be too high maintenance or a big know-it-all in the office.

How can I get potential employers to see that I am a team player with a passion for public relations? (I have extensive experience in my community with non-profit public relations campaigns, so I feel I am qualified for at least entry work in this field.)

This may be overly simplistic, but have you thought about changing your title? As the owner of the company, you can give yourself any title you want, and “president” may not be serving you well in your job search. Why not give yourself a title that reflects the PR work you do and rewrite your resume to focus on that?

You shouldn’t be deceitful, so you should also include information about the rest of your role — it’s only fair that employers understand that you haven’t been devoted 100% to PR — but you can certainly highlight the PR stuff and keep the biggest focus on that.

Now, if the PR work you do for your company only accounts for 5% of your time, this isn’t a good approach — it’s not accurate and it’ll likely come out during the interview. But if it’s truly a significant chunk of your time, this isn’t a bad way to go. And combined with your volunteer PR work for nonprofits, you should be in pretty good shape.

Of course, all that said, you also want to ask yourself whether your trouble getting interviews might not be about this issue at all. It could be that your resume isn’t presenting you well, or that your cover letter is terrible, or simply that in this market people generally need to apply for a lot of jobs in order to get interviews. But if you’ve ruled those factors out, I’d play with your title, since you control it.

{ 8 comments }

Posted in resumes

how can I convince my husband I can’t accept a job offer on his behalf?

July 23, 2010

A reader posted the following yesterday in the comments section on a post from February:

My husband was offered a job position where I work. We got into a huge argument today because I wouldn’t do him a favor and call my boss to say he accepts the position. I was telling him how unprofessional and how bad that looks. My husband has not been consistently working since 2002! I just want validation that I made the right call.

I posted my own comment there in response:

Wow. Uh, yeah, you made the right call. You should each handle your own relationship with your employer independently of the other. That’s crazy.

And she then followed up with:

Thank you for validation! He is away this weekend volunteering at a tournament where he can play and stay for free. So we left the weekend on a sour note. Anyway, when he gets home, how should I follow up with him (what would you say)? I feel like my right advice might come out the wrong way! Ugh! He ended the argument with, “fine, I don’t want the job!” He loves to go to the extreme when we disagree.

I kind of want to yell at your husband and wish I could call him. This is just totally, utterly insane.

Frankly, I’m worried about the two of you working at the same company if he doesn’t understand why this is wildly inappropriate. Is this really going to be the only time this kind of issue comes up? (I’m also wondering why he doesn’t want to accept his own job offer — accepting a job offer isn’t exactly difficult work. To say nothing of whatever’s up with him refusing to respect your professional boundaries, even if he disagrees with them.)

In any case, here are the two main points you should make to him:

  • The manager is hiring your husband, not you (despite the fact that you do work there too). The particular relationship in question is one that he’s entering into with your husband, not with you, and by having you call to discuss a business arrangement that doesn’t involve you, he is signaling that he doesn’t understand that. If I were the manager, this would raise all kinds of questions about what else he won’t understand about professional boundaries — is he going to involve you in salary negotiations, or interpersonal disputes? Is he going to ask you to tell his boss when he can’t meet a deadline?
  • Accepting a job offer isn’t just a matter of checking a “yes” box. There’s discussion to be be had. When I make a job offer to someone and they accept it, I want to talk to them — them personally, not an emissary! I want to welcome them to the team, tell them how excited I am to have them. And I want to talk about logistics — start date, maybe even initial projects. With them, not their spouse.

So that’s for your husband. But now I have two points for you too:

  • Making this phone call will make you look bad too. You’ll appear to condone it and think it’s appropriate, and the manager will start worrying that neither of you understand that you each have separate, independent relationships with the employer. Don’t jeopardize your professional reputation.
  • When two spouses (or two significant others) work at the same company, you have to really make a point of drawing appropriate boundaries. You guys should be talking about what strategies you’ll use to handle the potentially strange dynamics of both working at the same place, but I’m going to guess that he has zero appreciation of the need for that, as he seems to think you’re both just attending the same neighborhood picnic or something. You’re going to need to do what you can to get on the same page about this.

Do others want to weigh in with points I’m missing? I’m so worked up over this one that I’m sure I’ve missed something else important.

{ 34 comments }

Posted in job offers

congratulations, you’ve won the chance to promote online diploma mills!

July 23, 2010

About a week ago, I received an email from Emma Lee of “Awarding the Web,” telling me that I had been named a 2010 Top 40 Human Resources Blog. All I had to do to “claim” my award was to agree to post the award badge on my site. She added, “If you choose not to accept the award, please let me know, so we can give your spot to the next person on our list. We work hard to put these awards together, with zero outside financial assistance, and we don’t want these awards to go to waste.”

I thought this was pretty damn weird — I’ve been named on similar awards lists in the past and no one has ever told me that I had to “agree” to be named a top blog, or that I had to promote the award on my site or it would be taken away. They’re basically giving away spots to bloggers who agree to promote them, making it not much of a list.
So I ignored them.

Yesterday, I got another email, reminding me that I hadn’t yet posted my award badge and adding:

“If you choose to decline our award, please respond by Monday, July 26. The only reason we ask this is because if you choose to decline or not recognize our award, then let us know so your colleagues who could qualify for the award have a chance at recognition and take your spot. Dennis and I work too hard on these awards for it to be discarded, as this is our passion. We just want our award winners not only to appreciate our award, but also to understand what our ultimate goal is; to take away awards from marketing companies and make them back into what they should be: awards.”

What’s funny about this is that Emma Lee and Dennis Anderson are a marketing company, running a scam to get free promotion on well-trafficked blogs. After some back and forth with Emma about their questionable business model, a little online research quickly revealed that they’re sponsored by a consortium of online diploma mills that are trying to shore up their credibility.

I’m taking up your time with this only because I’m disgusted by this and want to out this silly little scam. Now back to our regular programming…

{ 20 comments }

Posted in jerks

how do I state my desired salary range in a cover letter?

July 23, 2010

A reader writes:

I am having trouble including my salary requirements on cover letters from a wording standpoint — every way I word my desired salary, the sentence looks ackward. I have always experienced writers’ block on this segment of a cover letter.

How do I include my salary range without making it sound like I simply added up my bills and added a few thousand for vacations? Do I have to include my last salary to substantiate the required salary?

Can you please recommend a less ackward-sounding formula than “as per salary requirements, I would need to be in the $42,000 – $47,000 range.” Or does this sound fine? Thank you!

“I’m seeking a salary in the $42-47,000 range.” As long as you’re basing the range on the market rate for the position and for your experience and skills, no one is going to think you just added up your bills and tossed in some extra for a holiday cruise. But you have to do your research to make sure you do know the market rate, specific to your geographic area.

But more to the point, why are you including this information at all? If you’re doing it of your own volition, stop! There’s no reason to talk salary at this stage. I’ve noticed that some candidates announce their salary requirements in their resumes or cover letters without anyone ever asking — and sometimes they wildly underprice themselves compared to what I’m planning to pay. (In fact, sometimes they do this even when the ad they’re responding to clearly stated a higher range.)

Now, if an employer requires you to include this information, then you have a decision to make. A lot of people will tell you to try to avoid talking salary up front and instead say that you’d prefer to talk about salary once you’ve had a chance to learn more about the specifics of the job … and then you just hope that if you’re a strong enough candidate, the employer isn’t going to discard your application just because of that. But of course, in this job market, with far more highly qualified candidates than can be hired, it’s understandable not to want to do anything to give an employer an excuse not to look at you further.

It’s not crazy for companies to want to address salary very early on – they don’t want to waste their time if you’re wildly out of their price range. That’s perfectly legitimate, especially if what they’re able to pay is on the lower side of the normal range for the position. But if that’s the case, they really should just post their intended salary range and let applicants decide if they’re interested or not.

Most of them don’t do that, of course, because if you’re willing to accept a lower offer, they want to get you for that lower price. But that’s short-sighted: If they lowball you now and you figure out later that you’re underpriced for the market, they risk losing you over it. So they should tell you the range they plan to pay, deal with the consequences, and put an end to all the drama and hand-wringing these practices cause.

(By the way, I want to point out here that we’re talking about salary expectations. If we were talking about salary history, I’d tell you that that’s no one’s business but your own and to hell with companies that think they’re entitled to it.)

{ 21 comments }

Posted in salary

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