our office manager isn’t processing payroll on time

A reader writes:

I work as a legal assistant at a small law firm. Today is payday, but this morning the office manager emailed all of the hourly employees to tell them that the bank had processed payroll late, so our money would not be direct deposited on time. This means that for most of us the money won’t be available in our accounts until Monday. I don’t know if I believe that the error was on the part of the bank, especially because this has happened before (at least 4 other times), and I can’t help but wonder if the office manager isn’t processing payroll in a timely fashion. The trouble is that I don’t have any way of knowing for sure.

We get paid twice a month, and while I personally will be okay until the paycheck posts, there are others here who really rely on getting paid on time because bills come out on auto draft, and there needs to be money to cover them. What I’m wondering is if the founding partner of the firm is aware of this. The emails sent out by the office manager only go to the legal assistants, so I don’t know if he has ever been made aware of this issue. I told my supervising attorney, who was shocked and said it was completely unacceptable, but I don’t know if he will pass along the information. I’ve never worked at a company that didn’t get payroll issued on time, so I don’t know what to make of this. Do you have any advice for ways to make sure this doesn’t become a recurring problem?

It’s very unusual for a bank to process payroll late if they received the information on time, and doing it five times on the same account is really unlikely. So I’d bet money that your office manager isn’t processing payroll on time. (And if for some reason she is, she needs to deal more aggressively with the bank about why this keeps happening. Either way, someone needs to intervene.)

And the fact that your supervising attorney was shocked and said it was unacceptable indicates that people at a higher level probably aren’t aware of this and would want to be. Talk to him again, and tell him that this has happened at least five times now, it’s become a pattern, and you’re concerned that someone needs to step in.

It’s hard to imagine that he wouldn’t do anything at that point … but if he’s pathologically passive or something, then you could skip him and go straight to whoever is in a position to do something about it — whether that’s the founding partner or the office manager’s supervisor. Just say something like this: “Jane, I’m pretty sure you don’t know this and would want to be aware of it. Our payroll has been late five times in the last year (or whatever), and I’m wondering if there’s something that can be done to resolve it so it doesn’t keep happening. I’ve heard several people say that it’s caused problems for them because their bills are on auto-pay and their accounts ended up overdrawn, and I know the firm doesn’t want that happening.”

For that matter, you could always talk to the office manager herself about what’s going on, but if you suspect she’s the type who covers up her mistakes (and it sounds like it), that may not do any good.

People’s paychecks are serious enough that you should talk to someone who will do something about this. And any good manager will.

You can read an update to this post here.

{ 74 comments… read them below }

  1. Under Stand

    Depending on the state, most states have laws governing the paying of payroll. As an example, in Missouri a company must give you 7 days notice if they will be late giving you your check. That is probably the reason the attorney was upset. He knows his company can be fined for not getting the check to you in time.

  2. The Right Side

    I know it is hard – but I completely believe what AAM said to be true. You need to go up your chain-of-command (sorry, military lingo is what I know) and make matters aware to your higher-ups. Good luck but you can do this!

  3. Not an attorney at that firm

    I hate to go directly to worst case scenario, but if the office manager is juggling the books, one sign would be late payroll.

    1. Long Time Admin

      This was my first thought, as well.

      At the 2nd instance, I would have raised holy hell and made sure everyone in the firm knew about this. I’ll bet they need an audit, too.

  4. Brian

    The only time this ever happened at any company I’ve worked for the company offered to pay any overdraft or late fees that happened because of it. They apologized all over themselves and did everything they could to make it right.

    In addition to making sure higher ups know about the problem, I would suggest to them that reimbursing for overdraft fees would be the right thing to do.

    1. Liz in a library

      Same here. In the six years I’ve been with my company, I’ve accidentally not gotten paid twice (not everyone, just me). Both times within 30 minutes of me alerting our payroll person, I had a check in hand, a paid break to run to the bank, and profuse apologies.

      The way this was handled in the original question is unacceptable. The questioner should absolutely let the powers-that-be know.

  5. KayDay

    I’m going to agree with all the above. I did once have a problem with my payroll, and the office manager apologized profusely and offered to have the company cut a check for me that day (or even give me a small amount of petty cash) if I needed it to cover me until the direct deposit was available. When it is a one time accident (which does happen occasionally) people are extremely accommodating. Another time, someone called it payroll the day before we got paid (payroll is due two days before) and the payroll processing company was still able to process it at the last minute. (I should note that the above experiences were with an outsourced payroll processing company, e.g. paychex).

    1. Kim Stiens

      Yeah, in general the bigger payroll companies can have your payroll processed in time if you submit it the day before, and there’s no problem.

      I definitely don’t believe that it is the bank’s fault in this case, but there could be another issue… if you do process payroll with an outsourced company, they often advise that you run payroll two days before payday, not because they can’t get the info out in time, but because some banks (especially smaller credit unions) might not actually process the deposit on their end in time. In this case, some employees will have their money in their account, and some won’t. So it could well be that in OP’s case the office manager didn’t process it early enough to ensure that 100% of employees would get their funds deposited by COB on payday.

      I’m wondering, in this case, was anyone actually negatively affected? In my experience, even if you’re really skirting the deadline, the employees’ banks can generally still get the money deposited at some point on payday (which should be fine, its not like there’s an obligation for your money to be available at midnight on payday, waiting for you when you wake up).

      And while I totally agree that payroll is the #1 responsibility of anyone in the position to make it happen, its a bad idea to have significant funds autodrafting from your account on payday. What if your rent is pulled earlier i the day than your deposit is made? The employee could inadvertently get screwed and it wouldn’t be their employers fault at all. Just my two cents. :)

      1. Ask a Manager Post author

        Agreed that it’s a bad idea to have significant funds auto-drafting with no buffer, but ultimately employees are entitled to assume that their money will be there when the employer says it will be there. (And, depending on how the company is timing payroll, they might be legally entitled to it too, since most states require that people be paid within X days of work being done.)

        People’s paychecks are a serious thing. The office manager should have figured out that she needs to do something differently after the first time this happened. The fact that she’s let it happen five times (and seems to be pretty cavalier about it) says that someone above her needs to be told so they can intervene.

        1. Kim Stiens

          Absolutely true. But I think it’s worth noting (in fact, maybe it’s worth stating in the employee manual) that just because X and Y are payday does not mean that your pay will be in that account when you wake up that day. It would be best if employers noted that the pay deadline is Close of Business on Payday, so that even if something goes wrong they still have time to cut manual checks (which wouldn’t clear in time anyway for same-day withdrawals, which makes me wonder… if you are an employer that direct deposits and something goes wrong, are you even OK to give paper checks? I can’t imagine why you wouldn’t be, legally, but it makes me wonder).

          1. Under Stand

            Ah, but if they cut you a paper check, you can go to their bank, cash the check and put the check into your bank through the ATM. I know in the state I live in, your company must tell you date and time that you must be paid by. If your DD is being delayed, they are in violation of that law.

            I had one boss who used to try to violate this. I made it clear to him that if he got my check to me by 2 PM(What the poster stated at the office) I deposited my check, if it got to me at 2:01 I went to his bank and cashed it. First time I went there and he did not have funds to cover it, I had the cashier call him to inform him that he had a check presented with not enough funds available. He had me cash within the hour (did not hurt that it was a small town and our office was right next to the Police HQ).

            You do not screw with the employees deposit. Also, most banks around here only deposit at midnight. So in that case the company must make your deposit there by time you wake up if you are on direct deposit. A check they can legal wait until the appointed hour to give to you.

        2. Anonymous

          I have to call you on having a buffer for autopaying bills. The working poor have no extra to have a buffer, and with a lot of places now charging for the a one time payment or using a check, or banks waiving fees if you direct deposit or use their autopay system, some people have no choice in the matter.

          1. Jaime

            I actually read that as a buffer of time. You can usually set the due dates for your credit cards, utilities, loans, etc. If you’ve got a bank account in the first place, from which you can setup auto withdrawals, then you should have the ability to exert some control here to synchronize your deposits and withdrawals in such a way that you have a buffer of a couple of days.

              1. Anonymous

                Still may not be feasible. Rent is due when it’s due. My company changed out paydays to the 6th and 21st which screwed up my rent schedule since its due by the 5th of the month. Also I used to work for a credit card company and no you cannot always get the date changed. Certain dates are much more frequently requested because they fall around when most people get paid. There are a limited number of people that can have those frequently requested dates. Same thing with my utilities, I cannot just call and tell my utility company to come check the meter at my apartment on a different day than everyone else’s in the complex just because that works for me. Just wanted to point out that moving things around isn’t always as simple as just calling to make the change.

  6. Savvy Working Gal

    This has happened twice at my company when the person who normally processes payroll was on vacation. We outsource our payroll, but need to submit employee pay data to them by a certain time (I think it is 4:00) to ensure next-day delivery. In both instances we informed employees immediately, offering to wire advances into their bank accounts and to pay any penalties they encountered. A couple of employees did request the advance.

  7. Beth

    pathologically passive attorney, no likely
    If the OP is afraid to make waves in the company he/she should call the State Department of Labor. No excuse for this. I processed payroll weekly for 200 people for years. It’s illegal to not have the money available in the “customary fashion” on payroll dates. So even offering up a float until the payroll is deposited does not relieve the company of the fines they can receive for the late payroll.

    1. Kim Stiens

      Oh, so this probably answers my question above about whether a company that direct deposits generally can cut paper checks the day of if something goes wrong with payroll. Interesting!

    2. Under Stand

      true, but the company cutting a check and then canceling the deposit may prevent the company getting turned in by the employee to DOL thereby eliminating the likelihood of the fine.

  8. Mike C.

    How is it that a company can get this stuff wrong in the first place? The only reason people show up to work is because they get a paycheck.

    1. Kim Stiens

      Because stuff happens. Not to excuse it, but expecting a prompt and reasonable response to mistakes by your employer is a lot more realistic than expecting no mistakes at all!

      1. Mike C.

        Sorry, not paying people on time is inexcusable. It’s a fundamental part of running a business and “mistakes just happen” just doesn’t cut it in my book.

        “Stuff” shouldn’t be happening. Information should be turned in on time every time and if the one person who does it is sick there should be enough people to take care of the issue. This is basic stuff here!

        The other thing you don’t realize is that while expecting mistakes to happen is one thing, expecting a mistake here or there to derail the entire system means that your system sucks and needs to be changed. This isn’t new and this isn’t difficult, it simply takes a commitment to actually caring about the work being done and being done right.

    2. Student

      It’s actually a surprisingly common problem… among the young and the poor. The late paycheck is a stepping stone to the missed paycheck. It’ll happen irregularly, so that you’re less likely to complain and more likely to buy whatever story they cook up about why the money is late or missing.

      The problem will only get worse if you are passive and ignore it. That’s what they’re counting on. They know darned well that most employees at the low end of the employment totem pole are very reluctant to sue or file an official complaint with the government because of fear of getting fired (especially at a law firm!), and are willing to go without a little money out of fear that they can’t find another job if they quit. Start looking for a new job right now, and talk to someone higher up about getting this fixed immediately. If the problem gets fixed, you can drop out of the job search. If the problem doesn’t get fixed, you’ll be well on your way to a company that (hopefully) doesn’t have this kind of problem.

      I know a half dozen people who’ve gone through something similar. They were afraid to speak up, eventually spoke up when the hardship got to be too much, got ignored or fired when they did speak up, and eventually had to find a different job that could actually pay them regularly. None of them managed to get a happy resolution out of their employers, but maybe you’ll have better luck since your law firm will probably not want a tarnished reputation.

      1. Anonymous

        They were afraid to speak up, eventually spoke up when the hardship got to be too much, got ignored or fired when they did speak up

        Surely, as is often pointed out in articles posted here, that’s just one of the benefits of at-will employment?

        1. Ask a Manager Post author

          Actually, it’s illegal to retaliate against employees for pointing out that a workplace law is being violated (and states do have laws about how quickly people must be paid).

          1. Anonymous

            And how does that work in practice? Remember, they didn’t get fired for complaining – it was a totally unrelated reason, wasn’t it? What is the standard for proving retaliation, because without examples, those soothing words mean nothing – except maybe as a calculated example of misdirection.

            1. Ask a Manager Post author

              It’s actually easier to prove retaliation than many other things in the workplace — the standard isn’t that high. A lawyer could give you more details.

    1. Kim Stiens

      Oh, no, I totally agree. I was answering his question as a more general idea… if you consistently show an issue processing payroll on time, then someone else needs to be processing payroll. He was asking why it would happen at all, even once, which is the question I was responding to.

      1. Under Stand

        I give people the benefit of the doubt once. At the third time, the partners would be VERY aware. My boss brought the money because I made it clear I was not above bringing charges for bad check. He knew it wasn’t a bluff.

        Oddly we never had a problem after that. And all the other employees were happy that I “fixed” the issue.

  9. Uncle

    I’d report it to the CFO and suggest an audit! Once is unacceptable… twice is outrageous… five times is fraudulent!

    1. KayDay

      Yeah, I sorta think what happened was that the first (and maybe second) time it happened, no one complained about it. So the person doing payroll got a little bit lackadaisical about it, and the problem continues. The OP needs to speak with someone ASAP about this so that it doesn’t happen again.

    1. Blue Dog

      I agree. This happened once to my wife and once to my mother. Both times it signified the beginning of the end. And both times, the result was the same (massive cash flow problems resulting in not only inability to make payroll, but also failure to withold taxes which were supposedly withheld). I would keep your eyes open for other, more stable, options. Good luck.

  10. The Other Dawn

    I work at a bank. We don’t process payroll for customers, but I know people at other banks that do. It would be a very rare occurrence for the bank to process late. They process when they get the file from the customer (the business). Actually, since banks use core processors to run their systems, there is little, if any, intervention by the bank. The core processor would pick the file up for processing once the business submits it and according to whatever their cut-off times are. I would say the payroll person is missing the cut-off time. It’s possible the core processor is at fault due to being offline because of a glitch or something, but it’s highly unlikely that would happen more than maybe once a year, if that. Core processors normally have a very high percentage of up-time, something like 99.996% each month.

    1. Anonymous

      I agree, she must be missing the deadline for submitting payroll. Either she has a time management issue or a cash flow problem. I missed the deadline once in the 4 years I have been processing payroll and I was so mortified! I had only been doing payroll for a few months and went off on vacation the day I needed to process payroll. I totally forgot about submitting the payroll until I arrived at my destination. By the time I remembered, it was too late to get it processed in time. Everyone was quickly notified by the owner that payroll would be one day late and offered a manual check. After that experience, each year at the beginning of the year, I set up an email reminder to be sent to me a day or two before the deadline for all the payroll deadlines for the year. I keep the email in my inbox until I submit the payroll. I have never missed a payroll since.

  11. Chinook in Calgary

    I have had this happen twice – once where a clerk zeroed DH’s pay incorrectly but it was caught and a cheque cut immediately (a government cheque, no less) the other time, all of us showed up tpo work at a large American chain and none of us had been paid by direct deposit (standard in Canada). It was done by the end of the day, but there excuse left us prairie folk speechless – a storm in NY with only 1 foot of snow had caused them to close the head office. We would have been sympathetic except that the previous year they wouldn’t let staff leave early when a storm caused the highway we were on to be closed by RCMP and staff had to spend the night in the store. We told them to put on their boots and gloves and give us our pay or we were going public about BOTH incidents.

    1. Samantha

      omg I can’t believe you had to spend the night in the store! Wow if the RCMP close a highway you know conditions are bad. I have to laugh at a foot of snow (another Albertan here) closing the office.

      1. The gold digger

        After 3 years in Milwaukee, I roll my eyes at snow stoppages, as well, at least in northern cities that have snow removal equipment.

        I also remember when I was living in Memphis and we had Hurricane Elvis, which knocked power out for ten days. Power everywhere – you couldn’t get milk because the grocery stores couldn’t run the refrigerator cases. My office got power back quickly because it was on the same grid as a hospital, but most homes and many stores were either without or on generators.

        A few days into our outage, NPR ran a long, long story about how the power had gone out in New York City for the afternoon. FOR THE AFTERNOON.

        I cried no tears.

      2. Natalie

        Given that New York state gets huge blizzards on a regular basis, I doubt it was the foot of snow that made them close the office.

        1. Anonymous

          NY state is pretty big. Winters in New York City are pretty mild compared to winters in Syracuse. I have lived in NYC for most of my life and only recall three really bad winter storms. Three in about 20 years. NYC literally runs on public transportation. If a sudden dump of snow delays the trains and buses for a few hours, then no one is going anywhere.

    2. Anonymous

      You have to realize that only the very northern American states know how to deal with snowfall of all levels. If it was a storm in NYC and the place was closed, yes, that would make sense because NYC people don’t know how to deal with it. But if it was in northern NY State, then they should know how to deal with it a bit better.

      In a nutshell, the more south in the US you go, the less people know how to manage snow – generally speaking.

      1. Katie

        FYI, we’re not lazy wimps…we’ve got one snow plow and none of us know how to drive in snow or have chains. The city will salt the overpasses if the forecast calls for wintry precip, but quantities are limited, and our main N/S and E/W arteries are elevated, so sometimes they’re closed. Last winter I saw a Gradall with some kind of snow-plow-esque attachment. We just don’t have the equipment to handle any significant amounts of ice or snow.
        I’m not sure if it’s safety concerns or desperation for interesting weather, but schools close really early, sometimes so early that the predicted precipitation doesn’t actually arrive. You may mock the Southerners for that. ;)

      2. Erica B

        I have a friend in Dallas TX, and they shut down the city last year for an inch… an INCH of snow! My friend (we’re from Mass.) just laughed at the people… but they have have to equipment for treatment or removal.

      3. Laura L

        I’m not sure what you mean by “very northern,” but Chicago can sure as hell handle it’s snow. Well, unless we get 24 inches in 24 hours. And I wouldn’t consider us very northern.

        The real problems come when several inches fall during rush hour. It once took me 2 1/2 hours to drive what normally took 35-40 minutes.

        Now I’m in DC and I definitely make fun of them. On Wednesday, we were supposed to get 1-3 inches during rush hour and the federal government let it’s workers go home early. And it ended up just being rain!

        1. Anonymous

          Yup. I’m from the DC area, too, and I had to laugh and roll my eyes.

          Thing is, I grew up in Maryland. People here have not always been this stupid/wimpy about snow. It’s not like we never get blizzards here, FFS!

          Of course, thanks to the local electrial company, which starts with a P and has a monopoly, our grid is shit when it comse to ANY storm or even wind! That’s a WHOLE other topic, though…

          1. Laura L

            “People here have not always been this stupid/wimpy about snow. It’s not like we never get blizzards here, FFS!”

            Yeah… that’s why I was surprised…

  12. No exceptions with payroll

    In my state, payroll must be given to the employee on the day it is due to them. No exceptions. If something happens with direct deposit, employers must cut live checks for their employees on the date due. I would take it to the top of your company, and if they won’t remedy this problem immediately, then you should take it to your state’s Department of Labor office. This should be reported immediately.

  13. The OP

    Hi, everyone! Thanks for posting my question, Alison, and thanks for all of the input. A few things I wanted to note:

    1. The first few times this happened, we were given the option of getting a check cut so we could have the money. For whatever reason, this was not made an option this time. My office mate did ask for some money to tide her over for the weekend, and she said the office manager balked at giving her just $100 to cover some bills and groceries but did finally agree to do it. I do wonder if there is a cash flow problem because of this and also because there has been repeated talk about the firm being under financial strain. Still, don’t we deserve to know if that’s the reason?

    2. The office manager has written letters on behalf of employees who got charged bank overdraft fees or late fees for bills before, but I don’t know if she’s ever reimbursed anyone.

    3. My boss does tend to be pretty passive, but I will mention this situation to him again to see what he might do.

    1. Under Stand

      On #1, that is no excuse. You provided the work, does not matter if they are under “financial strain”. If they do not pay you, it is fraud. If she balked, then call DOL. They will remind her what her legal obligations are.

    2. Anonymous

      I would really say that this sounds like either the firm is under financial strain, or that there is some shenanagins going on here.

      It is also possible that the office manager doesn’t think it is that big of a deal (esp if she doesn’t rely on this paycheck).

      If the office manager is writting letters then it is clearly HER fault not the banks. If the bank was at fault the bank would be the ones helping to fix it. My bank actually did mess this up twice in 2 months. After that the bank’s VP would check on my company’s deposit every payroll and send me an e-mail letting me know it went smoothly. The reimbursed every overdraft fee, they waved pretty much every other fee we had for the rest of the year. They went a long way to fix it. (And we stuck with them.) I don’t think it is your bank.

    3. moe

      Delaying payment for just one specific group of people–hourly employees who are less likely to know their rights, complain, or perhaps have the means to just quit–would be exactly what I’d expect for a troubled firm trying to manage a disastrous balance sheet with the least fallout possible. Absolutely you deserve to know if that’s the case, but would you really expect them to tell you?

      I would get backups of all the emails on this, document the conversations you’ve had, and start making some calls…

  14. Deirdre

    When I read your post, I wondered if the founding partner is telling her to float the payroll. I hope that’s not the case. If it is, you deserve to know.

  15. Suzanne

    My husband is in church work, so this can be a common occurance for us. Frustrating, I know all too well. In some ways, it’s good to know it happens in the “real” world, too!

  16. Interviewer

    5 times is about 4 times too many. As others have said, one error is okay, but the rest indicate a very bad pattern. Having worked in a small law firm, being late with payroll is the leading indicator of significant problems. Payroll should be #1 priority. If they don’t have enough money to pay for that, then things are well and truly screwed.

    The partner who is shocked has probably earned an Oscar for his meeting with you, since I would be willing to bet he has not gotten paid, either.

    Do you have benefits? Call your toll-free number on the back of your medical card before you visit a doctor. Make sure the coverage is active.

    Check to ensure that your 401k contributions make it to the right place at the right time. ERISA governs all of that.

    In the meantime, to make sure it is not a recurring problem, speak to the office manager and let her know that the state DOL office will hear about the very next delayed payroll. Yes, she thinks the bank is messing you all up. And being a day late means she’ll have taken care of it before they return your call, and they probably won’t care that much when they find out it’s a day late. But the repeated pattern of paying late might get their attention. Getting their attention is something she does not want to do.

    OP, you should be looking for a new job, today. Good luck.

  17. Lindsay H.

    I once worked for a small non-profit where payroll checks would bounce, but the museum manager would buy things like torque wrenches. It was a children’s museum. There would be no reason why we would be working on car engines.

    Needless to say I didn’t stay there for long . . .

  18. mb

    Do you have one of those posters that show state laws somewhere? They give a # where you can call the state to report this. At least in my state anyway. Or you could try googling it?

  19. Lauren

    My boss did this a few times, and actually told me that I shouldn’t have my auto drafted bills taken out on the first of the month as ANYTHING could happen. My rent is due on the first a**hole! not everyone is rich or has even a tiny bit of a cushion. My landlord expects my rent to be on time. Just because you don’t think of money as an issue , doesn’t mean that the rest of the world is just working for the fun of it. We shouldnt have to deal with overdraft fees , late fees, or worse getting evicted because of YOUR incompetence.

  20. Sigma6

    Every time I received on of those emails, I would forward them to “those who walk behind the rows”.

  21. Surprised

    I think this is the first “Is this legal?” question where the answer was no. I think the OP should get a prize. Or her paycheck.

    1. Editor

      I think the OP should get some really good references and some help with networking from his or her supervising attorney, because if the word gets out the firm can’t make payroll, business may fall off so much the firm craters.

      When my husband’s company couldn’t make payroll — twice — I asked him to look for a job. He didn’t want to tell people why he was leaving, so he stayed. He saved two weeks of vacation to take when our youngest was born. The morning after the baby arrived, the firm folded, and he never got the two weeks of pay. The next job also didn’t pay as well.

      OP — time to get out.

  22. Ask a Manager Post author

    One thought for people who are telling the OP that this is absolutely a sign of financial problems at the firm and she should get out — It may be that, sure. But it also may be that the managing partners don’t realize the office manager is doing this, and they’ll put a stop to it as soon as they’re informed.

    Be cautious about extrapolating from “I know some people where this happened” to “this is definitely what’s happening to you.” You might be encouraging the OP to leave a great job where the only problem is the office manager needs to be counseled.

  23. philip schneiderII

    i have a question my wifes boss is 1 week behind on their payroll.
    she changed the pay date from 2 weeks to once a week.will that screw up our taxes by the end of december .is that against the law or does have to pay her before the end of the year.thank you for your time

        1. Ask a Manager Post author

          New York requires that employees be paid no less often than semimonthly; weekly for manual workers (semimonthly if commissioner of labor agrees); and less frequently for exempt employees paid over $600 a week.

          So the question would be how long it’s been since the end of the pay period that she’s still waiting to be paid for.

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