sharing “emotional scars” as an icebreaker, I broke a desk and injured a coworker, and more

by Alison Green on April 4, 2018

It’s four answers to four questions. Here we go…

1. Our trainer wanted us to share “emotional scars” as an icebreaker

I wanted to get you and your reader’s take on an icebreaker I was subjected to recently. For a 9 a.m. Monday morning training last week, the facilitator opened with, “Tell us your name, your team, how long you’ve been with the company, and a ‘scar story’. Pick a scar on your body and tell us how you got it. If you prefer not to talk about a physical scar, you can tell us about an emotional scar.” I am not joking.

As we went around the room, there were lots of blood and guts stories (gross) but people also shared really traumatizing tales, like an infant daughter being diagnosed with leukemia. The whole thing took 30 minutes of a 90-minute session. I was very turned off by the activity in the moment and even more so later after reflecting a bit.

Besides this one being in very bad taste, I find myself turned off by icebreakers in general. They feel forced and never seem to give you a useful introduction to your colleagues. I’m wondering if your readers have ever participated in an icebreaker they think was particularly effective or are these just a reality of office life we need to endure?

Yeah, that’s a horrible icebreaker. People should not be asked to share emotional trauma at work. And no icebreaker should take 30 minutes of a 90-minute session; that’s disrespectful of people’s time. Plus, I’m skeptical that you needed any kind of icebreaker for a short training session like that.

Are icebreakers ever useful? Sure, sometimes, like if you have a group of people who don’t know each other and will need to develop a comfort level with each other pretty quickly. (That doesn’t mean everyone will like them; some people, like me, will hate them across the board. But they can still be useful.) But they should be brief and low-key, and they shouldn’t delve into potentially personal or uncomfortable subjects.

Readers are welcome to chime in with icebreakers they’ve seen actually be effective or ones they especially hated.

2. I sat on a desk and it broke and injured my coworker

I brought one of my colleagues a document to look over and sign. It has to be signed in ink so he needed a physical hard copy. It took time for him to read the document, and I leaned back and rested my hips and palms against his desk while he was reading it. The desk collapsed under my weight. We both went down. He ended up with a broken femur. I was so embarrassed. The head of facilities looked at it and said the desk was meant to hold 100 pounds at most and that I put “over four times that” on it when I “sat” on it.

I didn’t sit on it fully but it’s still embarrassing. I weigh 350 pounds and not over 400 pounds like the head of facilities implied. The government is involved since my colleague was injured at work. He will be off work or working from home for several more weeks until his leg heals. A memo went out reminding people not to sit on desks and mentioned the incident with my colleague and I by name. What happened spread like wildfire and even colleagues who used to work here know about it.

I’m embarrassed every time I go to work. How should I be acting at work? My colleague did not accept when I apologized. I do feel terrible he got hurt.

Your colleague didn’t accept when you apologized? Your colleague is being a jerk. (Note: Commenters have pointed out below how serious a broken femur is, which I didn’t know when I originally wrote this! I retract my assessment of him.)

You didn’t push him down; you leaned on a desk, which is a normal thing to do. It’s awful that he got injured, but accidents happen and this was an accident.

To the extent that you can, please keep that in the forefront of your head. You didn’t set out to injure anyone; you used office furniture in a normal way. It’s embarrassing because it feels tied up with your weight, but you should not be the target of anyone’s blame here. (I’m taking it as a given that you didn’t realize the desk wouldn’t support you. If you had previously broken other desks in this same way, someone could legitimately feel you were being reckless. But that doesn’t sound like the case.)

It might be worth clarifying with someone (the facilities head, your boss, and/or whoever sent the memo around) that you didn’t sit on the desk — that you just leaned on it, and that you’ll be more careful about that in the future. But beyond that, the more you can act normal at work — sympathetic for your colleague’s injury, of course, but otherwise normal — the sooner I think you’ll return to truly feeling normal. I’m sorry people are being insensitive about it.

3. Starting a new job when a chronic illness is flaring up

I’m starting a new job tomorrow. I have a couple of chronic illnesses, and unfortunately one in particular (colitis) is flaring up at the moment. It’s been going on for almost a month and doesn’t seem to be showing any signs of stopping, and I’m probably going to be looking into a different treatment option as what I’ve been using so far doesn’t seem to be improving things.

The effect this has on me is that I struggle to leave the house in the morning, due to needing to be near a toilet. This morning, I was stuck on the loo for close to two hours. It’s pretty embarrassing and not something I want to share with my new workplace (although they do know what illnesses I have, I don’t want to go into details about symptoms). I also suffer from fatigue but that is often manageable with diet and sleep, though I am worried about that having an effect as well.

I sent an email to my new manager last week to let her know, and to ask to start on the later of the two shift options. However, I was a bit too optimistic when I emailed her, and I’m worried that I’m going to be consistently late within my first few weeks. I don’t want to start on a bad note, but I don’t know how long this flare-up is going to last for. I have negotiated a flexible schedule and the ability to work from home occasionally, but I know these won’t be an option until I’m more familiar with the requirements of the job.

Talk to her! Say something like, “I have a chronic illness that’s normally under control but occasionally it flares up — and in some awful timing, it’s flaring up right now. I’m talking with my doctor about different treatment options and trying to get it under control as soon as possible, but meanwhile I wanted to make you aware that it’s happening. The symptoms are most disruptive in the morning, and it can mean that I’m stuck in the house for any additional hour or two until they pass. Is there a way for us to work around that temporarily?”

You can also request an official accommodation under the Americans with Disabilities Act, but start with just this conversation and see how that goes.

4. My coworker keeps sending me job postings I don’t want

I work at a small nonprofit organization as a part-time employee while I finish my education (I graduate at the end of the month!). I’m very happy with my job, as the size of my department in the organization allows me to learn skills that I wouldn’t have the opportunity to at my level in a larger company. I’ve worked here for a little under two years, and I plan on staying through the summer before looking for a new job. I’ve been very open about my intention to stay with my organization—I’m being sent as a representative to several summer conferences, which everyone in the office is aware of.

Over the last couple of months, though, I have a coworker who insists on passing along job postings despite my having said several times that I’m not looking. At first, I figured she was just trying to be helpful, but it’s gotten to the point where I’ve hinted several times that I’m very happy in my current position and would like to stay here for a while. Now I’m beginning to feel like she’s trying to push me out of the organization. I’ve heard from other employees that she thinks one of her relatives should have my position instead of me. My boss says she’s perfectly happy with my work and doesn’t want me to leave, but I also am really tired of my coworker insinuating that I don’t belong here. Should I put my foot down and be sharper (at the risk of starting drama in a relatively dramatic office), or should I just deal with it?

You can put your foot down without starting drama — or at least, if drama results, you won’t be the cause.

The next time your coworker sends you a job posting, tell her very directly to stop (which is different from just saying that you’re not looking). For example: “Would you please stop sending me job postings? Thanks.” If this feels too abrupt, you can open with, “Thanks for thinking of me, but..” And if you’d feel more comfortable, you can add on, “They’re not useful to me right now” or “I’m not interested in them right now.” But the key part is the very clear “please stop doing this” language.

If she sends more after that, then you’re dealing with a loon. At that point, you could choose to just ignore her, but if you wanted to address it, it would be fine to say, “I’m confused. I’ve asked you directly to stop sending me job postings but you’re continuing to send them. Why?” … followed by, “I don’t want to receive them, so please do stop. Thanks.”

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{ 1,323 comments }

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    4. atalanta0jess*

      There’s some nasty stuff happening below, I hope you’ll intervene if you get a chance.

        1. Atalanta0jess*

          You commented on the one that was sticking in my craw. Thank you!! Fat shaming is the worst.

      2. Atalanta0jess*

        Oops, I see that I missed stood the timing of the comments. So let me rephrase: THANK YOU!!

  2. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

    OP#1, I wasn’t once in an event where the “icebreaker” involved identifying which of us were from low-income families (or first-generation higher ed) and then tried to prove our experiences with poverty as if we were in some creepy Dickensian horror-scape. I walked out.

    Maybe I’m melodramatic, but when you try to opt out and someone tries to continue such an overly familiar and inappropriate icebreaker, I think it’s ok to leave.

    1. LouiseM*

      That sounds terrible! What a poorly-thought out plan. The worst icebreaker I’ve seen was one where people had to go around and say if they “folded” or “crumpled” their toilet paper. At first I didn’t even understand the question, so just from that perspective it wasn’t a good icebreaker, but once I did…ick!

      Agreed about walking out. If an icebreaker is taking up a third of a meeting, I’m thinking the meeting is not an appropriate use of my time.

      1. PB*

        Gross. I really don’t want to know anything about anyone’s bathroom habits, and what is that supposed to tell you about them, anyway?

      2. Tafadhali*

        My freshman year roommates (a trio of sophomores) and their boyfriends had a conversation about this the week I moved in and their preferences are still etched in my mind 12 years later because I found the conversation so bizarre. Cannot imagine having it in a work context!

      3. Gaz112*

        Not sure where you are Louise, but there was an actual advertising campaign in the UK for loo rolls based on that very thing…

      4. CmdrShepard4ever*

        I can’t imagine what advantage you get from crumpling up the paper, you have to use so much more of it for the same effect you can have with just a few sheets of nicely folded paper. My significant other crumples the paper and it drives me up the wall, but alas there are somethings that are just very personal and you can’t comment on them.

        1. Specialk9*

          Your significant other’s toilet paper usage habit while wiping their bum drives you up the wall?! What on earth. Like what even. How do you know this? Why do you care at all much less have this irritate you mightily? This is SO WEIRD. So so so so so so weird.

          Also, different people’s poop consistency and bum shape requires different approaches. It’s SO not your business.

          I can’t even express how bizarre I find this.

          1. CmdrShepard4ever*

            I will admit I exaggerated how much it bothers me, but it does bother me, I won’t get into how I know I just do. But I will say it is more the amount and it only bother me when I see it, I don’t go around thinking about it 24/7. I agree I am weird completely, and there are things that I do that drive my partner crazy. I like to leave the shower curtain/door open so that I can see no one is hiding behind it waiting to kill me, I irrational, but this drives my partner crazy.

            1. Detective Right-All-The-Time*

              I don’t think it’s THAT weird, Cmdr. I had a partner who used SO much tp. I don’t even know what their method was, crumple or fold. I just know that we went through rolls and rolls and rolls in a matter of days. I could never understand where it all went and it drove me crazy as well.

              1. Autumnheart*

                I think it’s pretty clear where it all goes, and considering the alternative, I’d say that this should be something people need to stop fussing over. TMI but if you have hemorrhoids or some other digestive issue, or if you menstruate, it takes more TP to be effective. Unless you have someone in the house who’s shredding TP and flushing it down the toilet for LOLs, it isn’t a problem that needs policing.

                2. whingedrinking*

                  I recently started living alone for the first time ever, and I find myself wondering if my old roomies were eating the TP or what – it just seems to get used up way more slowly, even considering I’m the only person using it, than it did in the past.
                  Am I going to call up every single one of the people I’ve ever lived with and demand to know what was going on with the toilet paper? Yeah, no. Life’s too short. I’m just going to assume there was *need*, and leave it at that.

                3. IForgetWhatNameIUsedBefore*

                  Yeah, I had an ex roommate who went through TP like there was no tomorrow, and the only thing that bugged me was that they constantly complained about the toilet paper we bought (Costco brand, very good quality) because they preferred 1-ply jail TP, but wouldn’t go out and buy it themselves.

                  The next roomie that used lots of TP actually contributed extra to the household goods fund, so we had no issues at all X-D

            2. Not a Morning Person*

              Leaving the shower curtain or door open a little helps to improve air flow and reduce mold growth…once you are out, of course!

            3. smoke tree*

              When I was a kid, I was once at a friend’s house conducting a seance in the bathroom with a Ouija board late at night (as one does) when his sister jumped out of the shower where she had been hiding and screamed at the top of her lungs. I still check behind the shower curtain whenever I enter a bathroom.

        2. Kate 2*

          Okay, I tried to resist, but I had to say: No way! Crumpling uses much less paper than folding, if you don’t crush it into a tight ball. With folding, the sheets get soaked through really quickly, and reach the other side. With crumpling the air pockets slow the liquid absorption rate and prevent the layers closest to the hand (the handle) from getting wet.

          1. Gadget Hackwrench*

            Plus the bumps and ripples of the crumple is far more effective on the back end… flat folded paper would just smear stuff around. oook. *Shudder*

      5. President Porpoise*

        When I was a child, I used to practice origami with my TP. It was weird. I do not do that anymore.

        2. Say What, now?*

          Not the weirdest. And by far one of the least scary things you could be doing in the bathroom so I say go for it.

    2. Loose Seal*

      OMG! That was thought up by someone who hasn’t spent time in poverty. I would have probably ripped their head off. My past is not here for your amusement. (Unless I intend it to be by sharing an amusing anecdote. Not this, though).

    3. Gen*

      I was in a training session once where most of the staff were recent graduates or straight from high school even. The ice breaker was intended to show we -as young people- couldn’t possibly understand the suffering of our clients so they wanted people describe the worst day of their life. The trainer seemed to think young folks haven’t experienced anything. The first person discussed her parents dying in front of her in a car accident, the next talked about losing his young sister in a war zone, at which point the grey faced trainer called a stop to that icebreaker. We’d all lost respect for him by then though so the training didn’t go very well

      1. Dr Wizard, PhD*

        That trainer just fundamentally … argh … what?

        By which I mean, the horrifying emotional fallout aside, that’s also entirely the wrong mindset for training people in that field.

      2. Not So NewReader*

        Lesson #1: Don’t ask people a question without being prepared for them to actually answer the question.

        So many people have hair curling, heart-stopping stories, he should have known better than to ask.
        Good for those people for answering so candidly. That needed to go that way.

        1. Totally Minnie*

          This is so true. I had one icebreaker where the question was “What’s the hardest thing you’ve ever done?”

          And I mean, I’m willing to tell you, but it’s a long and difficult story and none of us is going to feel good at the end of it.

          1. bearing*

            I got “What’s the most difficult decision you’ve ever had to make?” in my very first professional interview, for an internship, when I was a 19-year-old college sophomore.

            I … did not have an impersonal and cheerful answer ready. Did not get the internship.

        2. myswtghst*

          Lesson #1: Don’t ask people a question without being prepared for them to actually answer the question.

          So very important! Even the most innocuous-seeming questions can get weird answers if the participants are determined enough, especially if you ask broad, high-level questions and don’t give examples of what you want.

          I teach classes that often include people from different departments who may not know each other, so we always start with a brief icebreaker in a standard format: name, department, how long you’ve been with the company, and a question which is fun but relevant to the class. In a recent career development class, the question was “when you were a kid, what did you want to be when you grew up?”. My answer (I always go first) was a veterinarian, and I mostly got the totally expected and sometimes adorable answers (ballerina, lawyer, firefighter, pirate…). Then someone decided a good answer would be “male stripper”, so I was grateful that there is very little that fazes me anymore and just suggested he not mention that at work.

          1. Radar*

            Yep. I used to be the editor of my company’s interoffice newspaper, many years ago. One time during Mother’s Day season, I was asking fellow coworkers what they thought of during this time of the year as in, “What does Mother’s Day mean to you?” for an article I was writing. One reply I got was “Anger, hatred, disgust, yuck,” Oops. I was young and naive! I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t ask something like that today because as has been said here, you might not want to know the answer to a question like that, no matter how seemingly innocuous it may appear.

      3. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

        Wow, what a cluster and what a presumptuous trainer.

        1. Mary Ellen*

          I just had to tell you how much I love your username, Kalros. :-) The thresher maw vs. Reaper is one of my favorite moments in all of Mass Effect.

      4. Kelly L.*

        Oh, wow, he really had no idea, did he? o.O

        Thankfully on the scar one, I have a really innocuous and non-traumatic story I could use as a go-to (thumb, food service, tomato slicing), but how did this one ever seem like a good idea?

      5. Specialk9*

        My acting prof has us do this once, as I dunno, a way of connecting our scenes with our past trauma for emotional resonance. The always smiling and bubbly classmate told about being trapped in a car accident and watching as her friend died in front of her while she couldn’t get to her. It haunts me still.

        The prof called off that exercise, and I really hope he learned a lesson. He was a smarmy drunk creeper, though, so likely not.

        1. whingedrinking*

          My SO was in a theatre class once, and I don’t remember the exact assignment, but it culminated in him telling/re-enacting the story of how, at five years old, he was blinded in his left eye. I wasn’t there, but I’m told it had quite an impact on the class.

      6. Say What, now?*

        It wasn’t thought out but at least they didn’t try to force it once they realized it.

    4. Clare*

      Ugh thats awful! In general i hate all icebreakers, but i have done one that is good (for an icebreaker). Its called “2 truths and a lie”- everyone goes around and says three things about themselves, like “I’m a circus juggler in my free time, i wad born in texas, i like playing golf” but one of the three things has to be untrue. Then everyone else has to guess what the lie is. Its nice because people can choose anything to share so it can be kept impersonal if they want, plus you do actually learn a few things about your coworkers.

      1. No Name Yet*

        Yeah, I’ve always kind of liked ‘2 truths and a lie.’ It can be hard to think of things, but is easy to keep at a light-and-amusing level.

        1. The Cosmic Avenger*

          Yes! I think that when my former boss did our variation on it (see my comment below), we were told a few days ahead of the meeting so we could consider our options. I am NOT good at being put on the spot, so that was greatly appreciated.

          1. Penny Lane*

            2 truths and a lie is thoroughly benign, people can and do keep their responses lighthearted, and you don’t need to prep, at all. You should be able to come up with those things on the spot. If you can’t think on your feet quickly enough to have them prepared by the time it comes around to you …

            1. Specialk9*

              Once again, that’s really rude. Not all of us are great at thinking on our feet while in performance mode, but we’re still valuable human beings anyway.

              1. Mallory Janis Ian*

                I’m great at thinking on my feet in work mode (as in, something has gone not-as-expected and I need to quickly figure it out), but I suck at it in performance mode (when other people are looking at me and expecting a performed response). In that scenario, my mind would be super-quick to imagine all manner of ways in which I might embarrass myself, to the point where appropriately innocuous responses would be lost in the flood of anxiety surrounding that. Not from being to slow and dull to think on my feet.

              2. Kate 2*

                That was rude, but honestly just curious, after the task is announced, while other people are talking, you really couldn’t come up with two facts about yourself? A hobby, a favorite color, anything?

                1. zora*

                  No, because I can’t listen and think at the same time. So, I probably could think of facts, but then I’m not listening to any of my coworkers, and doesn’t that defeat the whole purpose of the ice breaker?? Different people think differently, it really is going to be better for everyone if you give people a heads up for ice breakers like this. I hope you consider that if you are ever in the position of planning an icebreaker in the future.

                2. Mallory Janis Ian*

                  Speaking for myself, Yeah, I could come up with something while listening to others. I’d probably freeze up initially if I was supposed to go first, but I’d get warmed up with the example of two or three other people going first.

                3. SarcasticFringehead*

                  I can come up with two facts about myself – it’s coming up with a plausible lie that’s the issue. I can also have a lot of anxiety (like, forget-my-own-name anxiety) in situations like this, so it really helps to have some time to think about it.

                4. Say What, now?*

                  It’s also harder if some of the coworkers know you because you’re doing a meeting where you have seasoned staff meeting new people. You’d have to come up with things that they wouldn’t know.

                5. Chalupa Batman*

                  Zora, I’m glad you mentioned that. This is one of the few icebreakers I don’t hate, but I run into that sometimes, too, and I’d never put words on it. I’m making a mental note that if I ever facilitate this one (which is likely) to plan around it by allowing 30 seconds to think before starting or quickly writing out each set of facts (if the group is small) to give people time to catch up if they were thinking during someone else’s facts.

            3. atalanta0jess*

              Um….what? Why would you say that? What if you’re second in line? What if you’re trying to effing listen to your coworkers and engage with the breaking of the ice instead of trying to think of what you want to say?

              I really appreciate warning too.

          2. Kit Kendrick*

            Good on your boss for the advance warning. My problem with most icebreakers is that they make me feel on the spot and uncomfortable, instead of at ease and connected, which is the intention.

          3. Say What, now?*

            That is nice! So many people have social anxiety so being asked to be witty on the spot is a little unkind. Plus, you don’t just spontaneously blurt out something inappropriate because it’s the first thing that comes to your mind.
            People seem to be onboard with this one so I’m going to keep this on the backburner if I need to use one.

        2. Harper*

          2 Truths and a Lie is my favourite, and I’ve never run into a group where it seemed like anyone is uncomfortable about it.

          Plus, I’m now really good at it because “I’ve been inside a volcano” and “I have pet ants” can be truths :-D

          1. Someone else*

            I’ve been in some pretty uncomfortable 2 truths and a lie, but it’s because one (or more) of the participants chose to say things that were extremely uncomfortable, not because of anything inherent to the exercise itself.

            1. Sharon*

              I was in one once, where one of the bosses told his. I don’t remember the lies but his truth was that he once had sex in a freezer at work. I did NOT need to know that about him. (He was overly proud of it, too.)

          2. Arjay*

            I hope this isn’t “everybody can’t have sandwiches” territory, but I did this icebreaker in a group where some people knew each other better than others. I guessed at the lie and was met with some almost scoffing responses about how “everyone” knew that was true about this person (she sang in a choir). It ended up making me feel left out instead of included.

        3. Anonanonanon*

          That is my go to ice breaker if I have to pick one. I have also seen people use it to share information like dietary restrictions, which can be useful.

        4. Chinook*

          We do a version of this to get women to mingle at talk to someone other than their friends at a social group we lead. Everyone writes down 3 facts about themselves on slips of paper. Then we mix them and redistribute them. Then you have to go around and find the people who wrote them. It worked to start conversations because there were a lot of “That applies to me but I didn’t write it” as well as conversations started when someone shared something unique.

      2. eplawyer*

        Why not “Hi I am so and so I work in Department X, here’s something useful about my job that can help others in the company?” It’s relevant to the job which is what most of these trainings are for.

        I do not get why training icebreakers have to be not job related.

        1. Lil Fidget*

          I’m not a huge fan myself, but the idea is to promote emotional closeness so that you can break down barriers in a group. Keeping it work-specific doesn’t help people see their coworkers in a new light / help them feel more well disposed to them. You could probably ask them to share what they like about their job though – that might work.

          1. KarenK*

            I was once asked to share something about myself that the rest of the group didn’t know. I said that I had so many cats that if I got another one, I’d have to get a kennel license (the maximum you can have is six in my town). Everybody shared fun stuff like that.

          2. SarahKay*

            I was thinking you could ask them what their favourite piece of office equipment is. Judging by the comments when Alison asked that a while back, most people have something they can enthuse over.

          3. Say What, now?*

            The share something about your job that you like turned nasty for us when two people decided to air out their feud for everyone. “I like that I’ll retire in x years and won’t have to see Y anymore.” Really, you couldn’t let the new peeps warm their seats before you made this public?

        2. Penny Lane*

          Because that is an introduction. The goal is to break down barriers and have people think of one another as PEOPLE, not work machines. That’s why they call it an icebreaker.

          1. fposte*

            But that assumes that introductions aren’t enough to think of people as people, it assumes that the particular icebreakers are successful in doing that, and it assumes that that’s a useful goal for the workplace. None of that is automatically true.

            1. Say What, now?*

              I do think it’s useful to see your coworkers as people with outside lives so that:
              1) you remember that people can have bad days and that doesn’t make them bad people

              2) they aren’t resources at your disposal. They may stay late for you on occasion but you shouldn’t just assume that they don’t have anything going on.

              3) having understanding for another person just generally increases your desire to have good will toward them. Maybe you’ll be more inclined to pick up their slack when you need to.

              1. fposte*

                I don’t necessarily disagree–it’s just that icebreaker exercises don’t always lead to that, and other things can, so I think icebreakers are often employed because they’re in the armory of the exercise leader rather than because there’s demonstrable benefit.

                And I actually enjoy most of these goofy exercises on a personal level, but the time in something like this means working that much time more in the evening, so I really want some good ROI.

        3. RebeccaNoraBunch*

          I’m a sales trainer, and I always do a quick icebreaker when I first embark on a week of training with new hires. In my case, we’re going to be spending generally 5ish days in a classroom together, and it would be coma-inducingly boring as well as just disingenuous if we didn’t know at least a little bit about each other before diving into product and sales process training.

          Plus, it’s just fun. We throw a ball around and learn about innocuous things like what our favorite ice cream and pizza toppings are. Ironically I’m an introvert so I hate really obnoxious icebreakers – always have – so I make mine very lighthearted and I also share of myself as much as I ask my trainees to. I’ve never gotten any complaints and it helps people see me as a person too and be much more engaged during the sticky, boring, technical training we sometimes have to get through.

          1. Lil Fidget*

            I’m a frequent meeting facilitator. There’s definitely a role for ice breakers, but they should be used thoughtfully (as it sounds like you do). IMO they have two purposes, either to get people talking – but you can just do an around the room or small-group introduction for that – or to get groups more comfortable with each other (or both). It doesn’t make sense to do one if you’re not going to be together that long, or don’t need a lot of discussion for your agenda. They make little sense in the case of an hour long training, but even an hour might sense for of a month-long collaboration.

            The problem is that some people just automatically start any meeting with a getting-to-know-you period, whether warranted or not, and just waste time.

      3. Jen*

        Full disclosure, I hate all icebreakers since I only ever seem to do the same rotation of three and I hate the artificiality of it. That’s one that’s high on my list – if I’ve just met you (which was the case the last time I ‘played’ it), how the heck should I know whether you repairing motorcycles or you like maintaining a garden is the lie?

        Also on the list: bingo sheets.

        We did do one recently through my work that I didn’t hate – we all submitted facts about ourselves (on any topic, no restrictions), and then the facilitators picked ten and read them out at the retreat. As a table we were supposed to guess who we thought was the person who submitted the facts. My colleagues apparently thought I fought with a bouncer and maybe went through a punk phase in high school.

        1. SarahTheEntwife*

          We did one like your last example! My coworkers guessed that I had once taken a class from Allen Ginsburg which…dude, I wish that was true but given when he died it would have made me the world’s coolest 12-year-old ;-)

          1. Not So NewReader*

            Ginsberg. I remember him doing a lecture at my school. He lost about half the audience. I stayed but I just did not get him that much. Every other word was f*** and his content got lost somehow.

        2. Sarah*

          We actually just did one like that, too! I liked it – we were given plenty of time to think about what our fact would be and we actually found out really interesting things about each other. It was the only ice breaker I’ve done that I didn’t hate.

        3. Madame X*

          I don’t hate icebreakers. I hate when they are done poorly. Icebreakers should be light-hearted like the example you gave.

        4. Pebbles*

          Yep, I like the “unexpected fact” one. We had someone who’s building an airplane in his garage, someone who played for a minor league affiliate of our local MLB team, and someone who does stock car racing. Plus the people who guessed correctly got a candy bar prize.

        5. LaSalleUGirl*

          I can’t stand most icebreakers, but I did watch a colleague lead an effective one once for a group of student leaders. She alerted the group ahead of time that we would be opening with an activity that asked them to present an object that was significant/important to them. (We work at a university, so she gave them enough advanced warning that they could get something from home over a scheduled holiday weekend if they wanted to.) She didn’t give any requirements for *how* significant/important it needed to be; it didn’t have to be the MOST important object in their lives, just something that mattered to them.

          During the session itself, she had people go around, introduce themselves, identify/explain their chosen object, and explain why it was important to them. My two favorites of that round were a young woman who brought her prayer rug and a young woman who brought her rosary; those two happen to be best friends and presented one after another, which made that segment even more powerful. I presented my iPod, which is a critical bulwark to maintaining my sanity.

          I liked that people had enough warning to think about how comfortable they were with the group and how self-revealing they wanted to be with their choice. The two women who presented their religious items were returning student leaders, who already had a level of comfort with the staff and some of their fellow leaders. They were willing to divulge a little more about themselves as a result. Other student leaders chose slightly less personal items (a phone, a keychain), but were still able to give us a little bit more insight into who they are through their explanation. No one was put on the spot or made to scramble to find something to share based on what was currently in their bag or on their person.

          That was the best-bonded group of student leaders we’d had in a long time (or since, and think the fact that we stopped doing that activity might be part of why).

          1. Ennigaldi*

            A museum I worked at did this. We all brought an object, talked about it at lunch where we had assigned tables so we had a small group who didn’t all pick to sit together, and then thought of what kind of museum it should be in (museum of lost keys, museum of photos-found-in-books, etc.)

          2. Madison*

            I had a professor do this in an acting class and it was really helpful. I remember one of our classmates from another country brought her camera and explained how she could look back through the pictures she took at home and feel less homesick. By the time she was done talking I was crying. I was only 2 hours from home and was incredibly homesick. She and I got to be close friends during that semester!

      4. Steph*

        I detest that game! I just can’t do lying – i’m no good at it at all. That game stresses me out totally (and I usually love icebreakers!).

        1. LBK*

          Same – it stresses me out and the stress makes it obvious which one is the lie, so it’s not really a game.

          The only icebreaker I’ve ever liked was sharing your favorite place to go on a trip. It wasn’t hard for people to come up with an answer, it wasn’t overly personal and it was still interesting to see the range of places people chose and why.

      5. Jesmlet*

        Until your boss decides at the Christmas party to do one involving the mile high club… true story

        As long as you have reasonable people who will keep it appropriate, this is the most tolerable ice breaker IMO

      6. pomme de terre*

        I will be the contrarian and say I don’t like two truths and a lie. It gets people to share interesting stories, but it’s so weird to encourage people to lie as a way of getting to know each other. It feels manipulative and confusing to me.

        1. Lil Fidget*

          Plus then I remember weird, vague things about people, some of which are made up, but a year later I can’t remember which ones! It’s not good for people with bad memories like me.

          1. biobottt*

            Right? I met one of my good friends through a group in college that did the 2 truths and a lie icebreaker. One of her truths was that people often thought she was called Name A, but actually she was called Name B. Now she’s one of my best friends, but for the first year I knew her I could never remember whether Name A or Name B was her real name.

            1. Lil Fidget*

              “Someone in this group was in the circus, or wait, maybe they WEREN’T in the circus?” … super helpful :P

              1. pomme de terre*

                2 Truths and a Lie also sets people up for this faux pas as well: “Well, the lie MUST BE that you collect chocolate teapots because that’s SO RIDICULOUS it must be fake…oh, you have actually dedicated your life to chocolate teapots, oh.”

      7. Facepalm*

        I was part of a group that had to spend 10 days together and we did that icebreaker. It got complicated because some people decided they’d tell three lies or three truths. But the best was a lie one of the guys told– that he was a child actor who played the character “Tum Tum” in the 90s movie Three Ninjas. It was so random and specific that most people chose that as the truth and everyone had a good laugh when they found out it was one of the lies. But it backfired because one member of the group refused to believe it was a lie and followed him around hopefully for the duration of the trip. It was hilarious.

        1. Decima Dewey*

          My general reaction to “Let’s go around the room and…” is “Let’s not”, but that’s never an option.

          One trainer had us all give our first impressions of Philadelphia. The guy who was born here didn’t have much to say…

      8. RJGM*

        I like two truths and a lie, but you have to be very clear in the instructions… my (very large) department did it in one of our meetings since we had a lot of new people, and one person misunderstood and thought we were supposed to pick work-related truths/lie. Most people’s were fun facts about themselves, but hers were like, “I’m passionate and hardworking. I love handling [our problem client]. I’ve worked here for eight years.” I felt so much secondhand embarrassment for her :(

      9. RobM*

        With #1 Any trainer who tried to get me to take part in that kind of “share your scars” thing would be told “your training session this morning is now one of my ‘scars’, which is why I’m leaving it” on my way out the door to speak to HR about what I will and will not find acceptable in future training sessions.

        I have “scars”. I don’t want to relive them and I’m sure no one would want to listen.

        As for “two truths and a lie” perhaps it’s because I’m now salty about the whole concept of ‘icebreakers’ but my three would be “I feel this patronises us all”, “I don’t want to be here anymore” and “I do want to be here”.

        I am warm and fluffy normally, honest, I just have an incredibly low tolereance for what I see as patronising nonsense.

        1. Lil Fidget*

          Strangely, the evidence of icebreakers is that they do work to promote group cohesion even if everybody hates them. So, enjoyment is not really necessary for success :P

          1. Tau*

            A known, tried-and-true method of promoting group cohesion is to give them a common enemy…

      10. Fiennes*

        A then-new manager of mine once did a variant of this—passed out slips of paper and told us each to write down one “fun fact” about ourselves they thought no one at the office knew. Then he collected the papers, read out the facts, and tried to guess who had written what. The rest of us had worked together for years—but we got everybody wrong! There was a lot of laughter and some genuine bonding in what was all too often a very tense environment.

        Of course, you can see ways this could go wrong—but the power over what to share was totally with us, not the manager, so any issues would’ve been about us being inappropriate, not him forcing us into anything.

      11. ScienceLady*

        The only one that I like to use is asking what each person’s first record/tape/CD purchase was to allow for all ages to participate. PS – tape, Hanson’s “Mmmmbop”, followed closely by Ace of Base “I Saw the Sign”…Grammy winners for sure!

      12. myswtghst*

        As with any icebreaker, I think 2 truths and a lie (or any other variation on the theme) benefits from having an experienced facilitator who does a good job introducing and managing the activity. I’ve seen it go really well in many instances, but I’ve also seen the occasional group fundamentally misunderstand the expectation to keep it lighthearted and work-appropriate, which can get into some weird territory pretty quickly.

        At my last job when we ran it with new hires, we gave them a handout to write their statements down on, and we gave them some time after introducing the activity to come up with their statements. We also made sure we gave clear guidelines and shared examples of the types of statements we were looking for, so people weren’t starting from nothing.

        1. Lil Fidget*

          Yeah good point, I think you should SAY “keep it lighthearted” so people don’t embarrass themselves. And also … don’t pick something clearly NOT positive, like scars ….

      13. Typhon Worker Bee*

        I like “two truths and a lie” (NO-ONE guessed that “I won a poker tournament in Vegas” was actually true, LOL).

        We also did a fun one where we stood in a circle, one person was given the end of a ball of wool to hold, and threw the rest of the ball to someone they shared some kind of work connection with. That person held onto the strand and threw the ball to someone else they shared a different connection with. Things like “Glen and I are both involved in the sorghum project”, “Abraham and I both use the MacHete software a lot”, “Andrea and I attended that target setting seminar together last week”. By the time you reach the end of the ball of wool, you end up with a giant interconnected web. I guess this wouldn’t work for some teams, depending on how projects are structured, but it worked really well with our group.

    5. Newt*

      As someone who has both a whole bunch of physical scars and some past emotional traumas, I would not only have walked out of OP1’s icebreaker session but also made a complaint.

      Things like this are extremely personal and I can count the number of people I’ve spoken to about them in any kind of detail on the fingers of one hand. You do not get to dictate to people you’ve just met that they let out their demons for you. Whoever picked this icebreaker needs a serious talking to.

      1. Slow Gin Lizz*

        I hope OP makes a complaint, if she hasn’t already. That icebreaker is beyond appalling. And aside from the appalling nature of it, why would the trainer think that getting the room very very very depressed would be a good thing for a training session? (That goes for these other negative and depressing icebreakers folks have listed here, too.)

      2. alison*

        Agreed. What if someone had a very obvious scar that they didn’t want to talk about (I’m thinking of Tina Fey, who has a pretty obvious scar that she has said she doesn’t talk about because it resulted from an awful incident in her childhood). I imagine people with large, obvious scars would rather not draw attention to it because they worry it’s the first thing people notice about them (rather than their personality, talent, etc.). I’m sure some don’t mind but the risk of making someone feel ashamed or embarrassed is just not worth it.

    6. rosiebyanyothername*

      As a “teambuilder” in college, we were asked to raise our hands if we had ever experienced sexual violence. Who would ever think something like that is a good idea??? Even as an “opportunity to learn” or whatever.

      Just stick to sharing a fun fact about yourself.

      2. Detective Amy Santiago*

        The only situation in which that might be remotely acceptable would be a seminar on sexual violence and even then it’s super dicey.

        1. Rhoda*

          A form of that was done on Law & Order SVU, but I like the way it was handled. Benson was giving a lecture on the prevalence of sexual abuse. Everyone was told to close their eyes and then raise their hand if:
          They had experienced sexual abuse
          If they had ever had a date pressure them into anything
          If they had a friend someone who had experienced sexual abuse
          If they had a relative etc. etc.
          At the end they were told to open their eyes and look around. The point was to illustrate the prevalence, and everyone’s anonymity was preserved.

          At the end they were asked to open their eyes. The purpose

          1. fposte*

            I know it’s just fictional, but I don’t like this one. People are raising their hands on the presumption that eyes are closed. It’s a dirty trick to then make that visible.

            1. RabbitRabbit*

              But since everyone keeps their hand up, it could just be that everyone has their hand up because they have a friend or relative who experienced it. They’re not necessarily outing themselves.

              1. fposte*

                Then don’t start by asking people to close their eyes. People should know who’s going to be seeing what they’re volunteering.

                1. Someone else*

                  The only time I experienced a thing like this, the person doing the questioning had eyes open the whole time and kept asking variations until literally everyone in the room had hands up, and then did the “open your eyes”. I don’t know if that makes it better or worse…

                2. tinyhipsterboy*

                  If you don’t have them close their eyes, it ends up more invasive, though. Closing their eyes at the beginning means that nobody knows if people have been abused or know someone who has, where keeping your eyes open from the beginning then lets you know exactly who has been abused and who hasn’t but knows people

                3. fposte*

                  @tiny–that’s a good logical point, but why not just ask people if they know anybody who’s been sexually assaulted, eyes open, from the get go rather than asking them to stipulate what kind of knowledge? I think the reason L&O did the way they did is because the TV viewer got the visual of the different people raising their hands at different times; in real life, that provides no participant advantage.

            2. Kelly L.*

              This. I went to a church that did that. They’d tell everybody to bow their heads and close their eyes, and then raise their hands if they needed certain things spiritually, and then sometimes there’d be a “gotcha” everybody opening their eyes at the end. Gross.

            3. RJGM*

              Agree. I haven’t watched the show, so when I first read the description, I thought it was going to end with the organizer saying, like, “in this room we had x% of people raise their hands” and then extrapolating to broader statistics. Still wouldn’t be great, since the organizer presumably has their eyes open, but better than (as Kelly put it) the “gotcha” at the end.

      4. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

        That is horrifying. I did attend a program on body dysmorphia and eating disorders where we were asked to raise our hands if we had an eating disorder or knew someone with an eating disorder. That was dicey but at least passably related, and I still think it was kind of poorly facilitated. Sexual violence? Seriously?

    7. Traffic_Spiral*

      My response to the LW’s icebreaker would have been “Hi, my name is Traffic, and I’d like to talk about the emotional scarring of having to go through this icebreaker. It sucks.”

    8. The Other Dawn*

      I wouldn’t say I’ve encountered any terrible ice breakers, but there was one that was just weird and out of place. It was a group training session for a new feature of a software platform we were already using. It was one week long and all the people in attendance–about six of us–had worked together for a few years at that point. It was a tiny bank so we all knew each other pretty well. The people from the software company that came in to do the training (I think there were two or three of them) decided to do an ice breaker where we each say a little about ourselves, what we do at the company, and something interesting about us. It was just weird because we’d all worked closely together for a long time.

      There was one that I thought was very good, although I hate ice breakers in general. It was when my former bank first started. The new bank merged people from two different banks into three branches that were quite far apart geographically, so we really only knew the people in our own branch. They had an evening event and as a way to break the ice we had to write three facts about ourselves, each on a little piece of paper. Those papers then went into a bowl and we drew three at random. We then walked around the room during cocktail hour and tried to find the person that matched the facts on the pieces of paper. The first person to match all three won a prize. It was actually quite fun and a good conversation starter, since many of the facts could never be guessed just by looking at someone.

      1. Minerva McGonagall*

        And if the point of the ice breaker is for the consultants to get to know you, rather than for you get to know each other, all the more reason to make it professional. How long have you worked here / in this industry? Stuff like that.

        1. Lil Fidget*

          That is odd. That’s not usually the point of an icebreaker – the facilitator could have asked for a short bio or a couple quick questions to be emailed in advance, if they really wanted that. It’s also poor form for the facilitator to take so much time out of the training for this purpose. Usually, the point of an icebreaker is that you’re hoping to encourage a lot of conversation between participants so you need to get people talking right away, in a low-stakes way, and build up a sense of camaraderie in the room. One theory is to put people slightly (slightly!) out of their comfort zone so that they will be bonded by the experience – as in team-building exercises or in asking everyone to do something silly, or by revealing something reasonably intimate (but not this person or traumatic!). I’m not a huge fan of this technique myself.

      2. Serin*

        Yeah, I’ve experienced the “facts about me” icebreaker and it worked pretty well. I still remember that one of the elderly women involved had been a roller skating flower girl in a wedding on wheels.

        The only drawback was that there was a lot of “I’m a big Cardinals fan” and “I’m married and have two children.” But given the choice between boring facts offered freely and interesting facts dragged out of people against their will, I’ll take the boring ones.

        1. Lil Fidget*

          Yeah people will insist on giving the most boring “stories” about themselves, which is why facilitators try to narrow the scope, but it’s easy to go awry there. People can have intense negative experiences with the most anodyne things (although “scars” was a predictable problem).

        2. MerelyMe*

          I work for a dental school and every year at first year orientation, we’re asked to introduce ourselves and include a “fun fact”. Mine, so far, has been “I have never had a filling”, and it’s fun to spring that on dental students and listen to everybody go “Oooh!”

        3. RJGM*

          Fully agree re: boring facts.

          Although it’s possible to present “boring” facts in a fun way — in my two-truths-and-a-lie game mentioned above, one coworker said something along the lines of, “I’m a newlywed, and have been for 12 years.” The whole room said “awwwww” at that one. <3

      3. Sara without an H*

        While I agree that icebreakers are generally pointless, I admit I haven’t had to endure any that are as awful as the kind being described in this thread. One I actually enjoyed was done by an outside trainer who asked us to (very) briefly describe our first jobs. Most people had some combination of paper routes/food service/retail, but our dean described having picked cotton as a boy in rural Georgia. That job inspired him to do something else with his life.

        1. Lil Fidget*

          First jobs could be good. But there’s almost always a way for it to go wrong for somebody, when you try to narrow it down (because there’s usually a buried assumption behind what you picked); for example somebody whose parents were wealthy may not have ever had a job before this one, and now they’re feeling wrong footed. Somebody who grew up in poverty might have had some traumatic job at thirteen like working at a slaughterhouse, or something. I’ve been astonished how quickly things go off track around even the most benign seeming prompts … you’d think people would just improvise or lie if they needed to, but as LW’s example, it makes people uncomfortable to do that. I think the best ones are probably more broadly open ended, like, “share a fun fact about yourself that nobody would guess” or “share what you like best about your job” or something.

          1. Sara without an H*

            You’re right in that most icebreakers seem to be based on some assumptions about the audience — that they share a certain social class, for example. And that may not be true. (Awful examples appear upstream.)

            I think, if you must have some sort of warm up for a group, that it would better and more constructive to make it work related, something like, “Please introduce yourself and tell us what you hope to get from today’s session.”

    9. LBG*

      I have a scar on my middle finger from a car accident. I’d be very tempted to show it to them.

      2. Name Required*

        I also have a scar on my middle finger from a knife slipping while taking the seed out of the avocado. To show it off at its greatest view, I have to pull both fingers on either side down with my thumb while stretching out the middle finger. It is a pretty intense scar that I should have gotten stitches for. And this is no joke. And yes, this is probably the scar I’d show the room.

      1. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

        It was a very bad effort to try to illustrate invisible privilege regarding class background (i.e., that your income is not the only economic limiter). It’s just not appropriate to use one group of students as zoo animals to be gawked at by more affluent or SES-privileged students.

    11. Nita*

      Huh. That’s pretty awful too. Icebreakers should really not exist. There’s nothing to be gained by forcing people to expose deeply personal things to a room of almost-strangers.

      My office does icebreakers very rarely at staff meetings to introduce the department to new hires, but they stick to very light topics like “how long have you been here,” “where do you live,” or “name a place you’d like to go one day.” I think my favorite was “describe the coolest job you’ve worked” – there were some really fun and unexpected ones.

      1. Lil Fidget*

        I don’t think they shouldn’t exist at all – they are occasionally valuable if people aren’t talking – but yes, they should always be lighthearted and give people an easy way to share something they don’t mind sharing. The more directed you try to be, the more likely you’re going to stumble into bad territory.

    12. Mockingjay*

      Enough of icebreakers and feelings at work!

      A few years ago, I posted about an upcoming team building exercise at ExToxicJob. Wasn’t thrilled about it. Here’s what happened:

      https://www.askamanager.org/2015/02/open-thread-february-27-2015.html#comment-677860

      And the followup, during which I sacrificed one of my few precious leave days:

      https://www.askamanager.org/2015/02/open-thread-february-27-2015.html#comment-677860

      Current Job, as good as it is, includes icebreakers in our biweekly team meetings. You have to describe a Personal Best and a Professional Best since the last meeting. I use movies as the Personal Best, whether I have actually seen one. (insert eyeroll)

      1. Minerva McGonagall*

        Did you know there’s a movie called Personal Best? Would be a convenient way to out myself if I hadn’t already.

    13. ArtK*

      A corporate version of Monty Python’s “Four Yorkshiremen” sketch?

      “You were lucky. We lived for three months in a brown paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six o’clock in the morning, clean the bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down mill for fourteen hours a day week in-week out. When we got home, our Dad would thrash us to sleep with his belt!”

      1. Anonicat*

        We were evicted from our hole in the ground. We had to go and live in a lake.

        (A fun fact I can use in an icebreaker: I’ve typed those sentences often enough that my predictive text now suggests them once I’ve typed We were.)

    14. Lola*

      One of my (terrible) theatre professors at university was really into “raising awareness” of mental illness, so he had us sit on a circle and describe how our experiences with mental illness (our own, or someone else’s) made us feel. I loathed that man.

    15. Jane*

      Worst ice breaker was “OK, let’s go around this table and tell each other what we like and don’t like about each other.” – and we literally had to do that. And this was a team building exercise when we already didn’t get along. This was not a successful little ice breaker.

      1. Lil Fidget*

        Yikes, that sucks. What a fail. I wonder if that’s some really avant-guard technique you’re supposed to use when things are really already terrible, but … seems likely to backfire.

    16. Temperance*

      Wow, that’s so inappropriate! I am a first-generation college graduate, and that’s my information to share.

      1. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

        Yeah. It got real dark real fast when they started asking us if our parents were ever married, were divorced, if we lived in multi-generational homes, if we rented or owned our homes and what kind of homes we had (houses v. apartments v. projects v. mobile home v. foster care v. homeless, etc.), if we’d attended failing schools, if any family members were (or had been) incarcerated, if we’d received public assistance or other need-based support, etc. I’m proud of where I come from, but I’m not telling a bunch of strangers–especially ones who identify as high-SES–about my childhood experiences with poverty or my family life.

        2. Lil Fidget*

          Huh, this sounds a lot like the “privilege walk” exercise, but that’s a group social justice demonstration and it’s not something you spring on people without explanation! It’s definitely not just an “icebreaker.”

    17. Kelly*

      At my first department meeting of the new school year, our department manager asked us to share the best and worst parts of our summer; actually, we had to share it with another person, and then that person reported it out to the group. I was honest about my worst thing – I was diagnosed with alopecia areata over the summer, which makes chunks of your hair fall out. I hadn’t told anyone outside of my family until that point and it was kind of a big deal to say it. Of course, everyone else punted on the worst part of their summer (it ended, I can’t think of anything, etc.), and at that point, it was too late to stop my partner, so I just had to sit there and listen while she described it (kind of inaccurately). And then no one really seemed to care. It was AWFUL.

    18. LDP*

      I’ve never had to do an icebreaker in a professional setting, but I did more than my fair share in college. My least favorite is one called “Train Wreck”. Everyone stands in a circle, and one person is in the middle. The person in the center has to say a fun fact, like their favorite color or something along those lines. So, let’s say I’m in the center. “Hi, I’m LDP, and my favorite color is pink!” Then anyone in the circle who also has pink as a favorite color has to run across the circle to another spot. Whoever is left without a spot is in the middle. It’s fun for one or two rounds, but people cheat, and it ends up usually being the same few people in the middle. It can also get uncomfortable if you don’t have a lot in common with the rest of the group. (There’s nothing like seeing someone get offended that no one else has the same favorite movie/musical artist/tv show as them).

      1. nym*

        We used to do that at girl scout camp, but it was articles of clothing – “I’m wearing blue jeans!” or “I have red on!”

        Worked great with seven-year-olds. In my office? it would be horrifying.

    19. Totally Minnie*

      My go-to ice breaker is “tell us about an interesting book/movie/magazine article/piece of music you’ve experienced recently.” People can make it as personal or innocuous as they want, and we all get recommendations for new fun stuff to enjoy.

  3. Mike C.*

    What kind of bullsh!t desk can only hold 100 lbs of weight before completely collapsing? Either your office is buying doll furniture or they’re lying.

    1. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

      Seriously, these could not be real office desks (I’m thinking multiuse tables?). If I put two law books and a computer on a desk like the one at OP’s office, it would have broken by now.

      Also, how does a rinky dink desk break someone’s femur??

      1. Indoor Cat*

        The femur breaking has got me pausing. Like, unless the coworker is being somehow…like, not lying, but exaggerating, and it was really their knee that broke and their femur was bruised or something. A human femur is stronger than concrete, so a blow that cracks a femur is something that’d be forceful enough to crack sidewalk pavement; usually femurs are broken in car accidents or an accident with heavy machinery. Or a bullet. Even if a 350 lb person fell directly from the ceiling onto my lap, my femurs wouldn’t break, although there’d definitely be serious capillary damage.

        Assuming it’s some kind of worker’s comp scam is ungenerous, I know, and I’m probably overly cynical. But…the coworker didn’t accept the apology, which is something a lawyer told me to do once if I was ever in a serious car accident (neither apologize to or accept an apology from the other driver). And a flimsy desk (seriously flimsy! Just because a big dude leaned on it?) breaking a femur? Hrmmm.

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          I wondered about that too. I looked up femurs because I realized I didn’t know exactly what bone it was (is that shameful to admit?) and the very first thing I read was that it takes a significant amount of force to break it. Who knows, but I wondered if it was possible that it got exaggerated by colleagues in the re-telling.

          1. LouiseM*

            Yes, perhaps this is a case of telephone. If you’re not a medical professional, a lot of these words sound like mumbojumbo and are easily confused. OR perhaps this coworker is lying for some reason. Either way, this didn’t happen as stated!

            2. A.*

              Yes but even if the coworker is lying (which we have no reason to believe the coworker is lying), the employers believe him. OP second guessing the severity of the injury would have a negative impact on his job. It’s bad enough if you are named in a memo as the cause of this injury, but imagine going around questioning the legitimacy of the coworker’s injury. Not a good look. OP apologized and he should avoid talking about it moving forward.

              1. Detective Amy Santiago*

                I don’t think anyone was suggesting that the OP should question the validity of his injury. The questions were more about trying to suss out if the OP had somehow been misinformed of the severity through the office grapevine. Which does not appear to be the case, as the OP has clarified.

                1. A.*

                  Yes but my point was more it does not matter if the OP was misinformed about the severity. The guy was injured and is missing work as a result. It does not matter if it was his femur or his kneecap. He was still injured enough to cause him to miss work. It doesn’t help the OP to speculate and the OP has chimed in to request people stop speculating.

            3. Jam Today*

              Breaking a femur, or not, is a demonstrable injury. Femur breaks are extremely serious (and if the artery is nicked or an embolus forms [common secondary condition] can become fatal very quickly, ) and recovery can be long difficult. You know right away if someone has broken their femur, both in the moment it happens and in the post-injury presentation.

            4. Autumnheart*

              Well, picture how you sit at a desk. Your femurs are supported in part by your chair but your knees are probably in space. The edge of the desktop is probably right over the midpoint of your femurs (unless you’re sitting right up against the desk which most people don’t). Dude leans against the desk, which collapses, and then 350 lbs of person plus 50 lbs of desk crap falls on top of it…that seems like more than enough leverage to break a femur.

              Ouch.

              1. Typhon Worker Bee*

                Yeah, it’s not just the force – it’s the angle, your bone density, other medical conditions, and all kinds of other things. Maybe the LW landed partially on top of the injured coworker and they went down onto the floor together in an awkward position, e.g. with the coworker’s knee bent under them or under the chair or something like that.

                I know someone who broke her leg (lower leg, not sure which bone) just putting her foot down a bit harder than usual while coming to an emergency stop on her bike – she was completely healthy, very fit actually and only in her 40s, but she said as soon as she put her foot down she felt the bone break. Another friend broke her femur in a really minor fall when she was in her mid 20s – turned out she had a benign fibrous tumour in the bone that had weakened it. She had a limp for years after that.

                1. Specialk9*

                  Yeah some people have weaker bones due to calcium issues. My mom broke her femur from a relatively minor fall, due to calcium deficiencies.

          2. Engineer Girl*

            If someone has broken their femur you always know it. Either they are screaming in pain or passed out from it. It’s a huge deal.

            The leg muscles are so strong that they will try to collapse the broken femur. You need traction to relieve the injury.

            1. Artemesia*

              It is a potentially lethal injury; an embolism is a real risk. It is a big deal if it really happened and seems rather unlikely in this scenario unless the injured person is elderly or somehow has weak bones. My father broke his femur in a fall, but he was nearly 80.

              1. Gen*

                I know someone who broke both femurs on a bounce house but they were 12 so I guess the bone was still growing or something to make it weaker? It was a months long recovery though

            2. Bagpuss*

              I broke my femur when I was younger. I only fell about 2 feet. And I wasn’t either frail or elderly at the time!
              For what it’s worth, I wasn’t either screaming in pain or passed out when it happened – the pain didn’t kick in until the ambulance was there and they tried to move me, which was about 20 minutes after the injury. (and it was a pretty severe break – seeing the x-rays later was quite scary…)
              I ended up spending over a month in hospital and then several weeks in a cast
              In my case, I think the reason it broke was to do with the the angles involved, which effectively put a lot of leverage on my leg. I imagine you could end up with something similar if his leg was caught between 2 parts of a metal desk frame, for instance, as while femurs are strong, they probably aren’t as strong s a steel bar!

              Or it could be that someone at OPs workplace is not familiar with anatomy and he actually broke his tibia or fibula. However, the fact that he had to take so much time of work might be more consistent with a break to the femur , since it potentially means you need a hip-to-ankle cast and/or to be able to keep the leg elevated, both of which would be much harder to accommodate with a commute and at work, than if it was a lower leg break.

              That said, it doesn’t sound as though OP did anything wrong, she and her coworker were both very unlucky that the desk broken, and that he was injured.

              1. NYC Weez*

                Our friend broke a femur bowling, and literally did almost nothing to cause the injury. She brushed her leg slightly with the ball and ended up lying in the ground in pain. FWIW, although they were concerned that she had weak bones bc she was in her 30’s, nothing showed up in any of the tests they ran. She stopped telling people about it bc no one believed her when she described what had happened.

              2. CityMouse*

                My Dad broke his playing hockey. I don’t 100% have the details but it had something to do with a pileup of kids.

              3. Harper*

                I think maybe people at OP’s workplace are using the term “femur” interchangeably with tibia/fibula. It’s a leg bone, so hey! :D

              4. SparklingStars*

                My mom broke her femur several years ago simply by walking across the room at work. It turned out that the medication she had been taking to treat her osteoporosis had the side effect of making your femur extremely brittle if you took it for too long. Now she has a metal bar in her leg, and she’s on a different medication. The one good part of this story is that since it happened at work, worker’s comp paid for pretty much everything.

                1. MM*

                  An osteoporosis medication that has the side effect of weakening bones seems like maybe it should be taken off the market.

              5. Temperance*

                I know someone who broke her femur and walked around on it for several days before going to the ER. Injuries can be weird.

                1. Witty Nickname*

                  My mom broke hers and didn’t realize something was seriously wrong for two months. When I moved across the country, I actually went to say goodbye to her at her doctor’s office where she was finally having it looked at. She ended up having surgery and pins put in and having to be off it for months.

              6. Cass the Northern Lass*

                I’m an alpine ski racing coach and one of my athletes several years ago had an accident and broke his femur when he collided with a tree. I can still remember his screams before he passed out. The ski patrol was awesome – kept both of us calm and did an excellent job of stabilizing his injury. It definitely helped that one of the responding patrollers was a pediatrician for his day job.

              7. Wendy Darling*

                I think sometimes you have epic bad luck and land JUST wrong — like if anything had been an inch different you would have been okay but you apparently hit it at the magic angle and boom, broke leg.

                My friend’s kitten jumped off the couch and broke its leg once. It had jumped off the couch 20 times before but apparently this time it landed bad and bam.

            3. Violet*

              It can be quite painful, but sometimes the body has a wonderful way of protecting itself from pain for the first few minutes. I didn’t realize I’d broken my femur until I looked down and saw my misshapen leg. I didn’t feel a thing as I was pulled from the car, rode to the hospital, and waited several minutes to be wheeled to x-ray. The pain kicked in as they rolled me along what felt like the world’s bumpiest floor to the x-ray room. I’m sure it would have shown in my voice if I’d tried to talk, but I just rode along in painful silence. But I do admit to screaming on the inside.

          3. nutella fitzgerald*

            Literally the only two things I know about human anatomy are that the groin is a weak point and femurs are incredibly strong. Something isn’t adding up.

            1. sunny-dee*

              A lot of people are saying that, but, as someone pointed out, it seems like a very probable injury. You have a relatively narrow desktop and someone sitting in a chair. The desktop would fall right on the middle of the thighs, at the midpoint of the femur. Add in the force from fall, the added weight from the OP, and the small surface area of the edge of the desk, and you could easily get a broken femur. It would be comparable to getting a broken leg from getting hit by a baseball bat that someone swung really hard — it’s not a guarantee, but it’s certainly not impossible.

          4. Human*

            Usually when people have a hip fracture, it’s part of the femur that breaks, not the pelvis. Hip fractures are not uncommon in senior citizens and usually happen as a result of a (normal) fall.

            This kind of skepticism from multiple AAM commenters is really not warranted for someone who is most likely older and frail and suffering from a fairly common injury. Aren’t two of the site rules that we be kind and take the LW at their word?

            1. Perse's Mom*

              There is nothing at all in the letter to indicate the injured coworker is older or frail.

              Nobody is questioning the LW’s word; commenters seem to be questioning the injured coworker’s claim.

              1. Jam Today*

                Unless they’re the treating physician, they have no foundation to be doing that either.

            2. Loose Seal*

              It’s not that they aren’t taking the OP at her word. They are thinking the story has been exaggerated somewhat from the injured co-worker’s telling of the tale.

              1. JamieS*

                There’s absolutely no basis to think the coworker is lying and it’s incredibly unkind for people to jump to that conclusion. Quite frankly I’m getting the distinct impression people are trying to go out of their way to make the coworker out as the bad guy.

                Nobody here knows how strong the coworker’s bones are, nobody here knows the exact amount of force that was put on the coworker’s femur, the angle of the point of impact, etc., presumably nobody here is a medical professional with the co-worker as a patient (and if you were you probably wouldn’t know for sure), and OP stated the coworker broke their femur which I’m going to presume absent other details is something OP would know.

                This isn’t a coworker exaggerating the size of the fish he caught and tossed back or something else a person can easily exaggerate. This is a very serious injury that would have some sort of documentation (x-rays, doctors report, etc.) and if nothing else is something I’d think a person would be able to see. The coworker can’t really just make it up.

                1. Colette*

                  Agreed. My aunt broke her femur two weeks ago by slipping on some ice. My colleague cracked her femur in a mud run. It happens.

                  And if by some chance the coworker were lying, it wouldn’t affect what the op should do.

                2. What's with today, today?*

                  Exactly. Maybe coworker has osteoporosis, had already suffered a broken femur making it weak, maybe the coworker has a chronic disease requiring bone weakening steroids.

                3. Dust Bunny*

                  Yeah, this. I know plenty of people who have broken bones in unlikely-sounding accidents. Sometimes a blow simply lands just right (well, wrong).

                4. Tuxedo Cat*

                  Yeah. I had a normal fall and broke my front tooth. I was young and healthy, and few people believed that a young, healthy person needed a fake tooth. Sometimes, things happen.

                5. Anion*

                  I’m confused how he’s a jerk for not accepting an apology, but the chick whose arm was broken by her terrified-of-birds coworker was perfectly justified and right not to accept *his* apology.

                6. Bleeborp*

                  All good points but I am glad there is discussion about it because it’s interesting. I, like Alison, did not know which bone the femur even was so seeing a discussion like this is why I read this site! It’s very fascinating how so many people can be like “oh the femur is too strong for that!” and so many people can be like “I looked at a femur funny and it broke!” and everything in between. I just enjoy how almost any topic discussed here you’re going to see a lot perspectives! Obviously no one should go out of their way to drag the poor guy who clearly was seriously injured but he’s not actually being hurt by harmless speculation of strangers.

          5. MommyMD*

            Bone trauma can be a complicated series of events and a perfect storm can result. It’s not cut and dry. The colleague fell from a sitting position onto a hard surface, may have twisted, and a significant amount of weight/force may have hit the bone just right to cause a fracture.

            1. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

              This is what I was thinking. My brother recently had a horrible leg injury in a way that sounds very dumb/unlikely, but was forceful enough to do serious damage to his distal femur. It’s not like a breaking desk falling on the leg of someone sitting at it would have the same effect as something heavy falling straight down on it with an even distribution of weight.

              Something about this line of questioning is leaving a really bad taste in my mouth, too. OP did anything wrong – the broken desk is an unfortunate freak accident – but treating the injured co-worker with suspicion is extremely weird to me.

              1. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

                eek, phrasing – OP did *nothing* wrong – my brain was saying “didn’t do anything wrong” and “did nothing wrong” at the same time and my fingers didn’t commit to either choice of phrase

          6. CityMouse*

            Yeah that stood out for me too. My Dad broke his femur as a kid and it required an extensive hospital stay and surgery. He always had trouble with the leg and has had two other surgeries. Of course, technology has improved since then but he was seriously in the hospital for two months and a cast for 6. It is a really, really serious injury. I wouldn’t fault the coworker for not immediately accepting an apology as there may be some legal issues and they would be in a significant amount of pain and facing a long and painful recovery.

          7. Not So NewReader*

            The coworker could have problems with calcium loss which would mean that bones were willing to break more easily.
            Or her leg could have been pushed off to a weird angle and the physics was such that it forced the bone to break. I am thinking a cleaver type of action.
            Or it could be that her leg got caught under the desk with too much weight from the desk crashing down on the leg. It wasn’t just the weight of the desk but also the downward force of the fall.

            A sad case recently of a young man who was killed by a theater seat, when he reached down for something. Sometimes the physics of ordinary things is just in a particular manner and the force is lethal.

            There are some manufacturers out there who are making very cheap office furniture. Unless the furniture is treated with extreme care it will have a hard time holding up to daily use. We ordered a top component for our desks. The manufacturer never said anything about screwing it in place. You know what happened next. People leaned against this component and pushed it toward our laps.
            We got the top pieces screwed into place with oh-so-many screws. Those top pieces don’t move now!

            1. Ella*

              I had to google the “young man killed by a theater seat,” because it sounded so god-awful horrible, and it IS horrible, but (assuming I found the right incident and there aren’t multiple theater-seat-related deaths out there this month) it looks like the stress of being trapped caused a heart attack and he died about a week later. The theater seat didn’t…crush him, or smother him, or anything like that.

          8. PhyllisB*

            Actually, it’s easier to break a femur than we realize. My 7 year-old grand-son recently had his femur broken. He was running a relay race at school and stumbled. Before he could get up another (larger) boy crashed into him and knocked him to the ground in a way that caused it to break. My first reaction was like yours. How could that be possible? I seriously thought his bones must be weak. His doctors assured us this was not unusual and that nothing was wrong with his bones. I have since heard of others who broke their femur in ways we would think not possible. So yes, a direct forceful hit could cause an injury like this.

            1. Sunshine on a Cloudy Day*

              Yes! I commented below – I had a classmate who broke his femur just by (literally) running into another classmate. It was a leverage thing – the position in which the fell.

          9. Jesca*

            Yeah the only people I know who have ever broken a femur were walking and got hit by cars! Now the employee may have a fragile bone issue like my uncle (Vietnam war spies in the air force apparently changed altitude rapidly a lot!), but unless that is the case their femur did not break from the weight and force of something like that! I rarely ever speak in definites, but this time? I am definitely calling bull shit on this!

          10. Anonanonanon*

            My guess is that there were complicating medical issues that made his bones easier to break.

          11. Sunshine on a Cloudy Day*

            Just chiming in to say – I understand that it takes a lot of force to break a femur, and it does seem kind of unlikely given the circumstances… But weird/freak accidents happen.

            When I was in grade school two classmates ran into each other, and somehow one of the boys broke his femur (I actually saw it happen – they just hit hard then went down on pavement). From what I understand it was more the position they fell in – some sort of awkward leverage type situation created the necessary. I remember it was his femur specifically because our school made a big deal about it – we took a field trip to visit the boy in the hospital (he was in traction for awhile) and wrapped it into some basic anatomy lessons. Which is kind of weird reaction by the school, but this was the 90’s and it was a tiny private school *shrug*

            1. Goosela*

              Yeah, I agree with you. I’m actually astonished by the number of people calling bullshit on the injured coworker. Freak accidents do happen. Things sometimes align just right to cause serious injury.

              I played field hockey from age 10 to age 22. Never got hurt, though I saw countless concussions, split skulls, and knocked out teeth.

              I avoided sports-related injuries…but freak accidents? I seem to attract them- I broke three fingers once catching a NERF football. Nowhere near as serious as breaking a femur due to a desk collapse…but still pretty darn absurd.

              A sconce once fell on my head while I was picking up dog poop. Got a concussion, some stitches, and a nasty knot from that…thankful it hit a wall first on its way down or else it may have killed me.

              Also gave myself a black eye opening a bag of pretzels…but I take full responsibility for that one.

          13. WinterCanStopNowPlease*

            One of our top performers broke her femur a few months back just by turning her body in a weird way. The doctors have no idea how it happened without breaking her knees instead. They found no underlying conditions. She had surgery and was off work for months. She worked from home, but it’s been a life-chancing injury for sure.

        2. okie dokie*

          It could happen – if he was on the opposite side of the desk leaning and the legs on the opposite side collapsed it would drive the edge of the desk into the leg – and with 350 lbs behind it it could easily break the femur.

          1. MommyMD*

            Yes okie. Very feasible. It bugs me that the injured party is being accused of malingering. It could happen with less force in this scenario.

          2. Hey Karma, Over Here*

            I sit with my legs fully extended resting on an upside down garbage can under my desk. I imagine (now) if my desk goes down, my legs will snap like the ice blocks in Karate Kid 3.

          3. Dust Bunny*

            This exactly: A fairly considerable amount of weight focused on a narrow point of impact could totally cause serious injury.

        3. Engineer Girl*

          Actually it’s all about angles. My cube mate broke his femur when he went over the handlebars of his bike. I had the same accident and only broke my hand. We landed differently.

          Femur breaks are extremely serious. You have to be under traction until it heals. There’s a possibility of severing arteries. And there is always physical therapy for it. Scary stuff.

          But a femur break from a collapsing desk is a freak accident. And I think the facilities guy is trying to blame the OP because he ordered a desk that couldn’t handle normal office use.

          1. Indoor Cat*

            Oh, whoa. I didn’t know that could happen. That’s pretty intense.

            For the record, IANAD, so, I just knew about the femur-concrete thing from pop culture. It makes sense that a very precise hit, like a lot of mass hitting a small area would have greater force, it’s just an unusual visual.

            1. Wintermute*

              yeah, a femur break is a **big deal**, there’s several potential life-threatening complications and it requires weeks of immobilization in a hip-to-foot cast under traction. You look like you’re from a cartoon, with your limb suspended in the air and plaster all over.

              But as others have said, very possible in just a complete freak accident, serious Final Destination stuff, where a table edge has weight applied just right to get enough leverage to concentrate the force along a certain line in the bone, etc.

          2. Not Australian*

            “I think the facilities guy is trying to blame the OP because he ordered a desk that couldn’t handle normal office use.”

            Ding ding ding, we have a winner! And in fact both the OP and her colleague could have a claim against the employer arising from this accident, so clearly the facilities manager is doing his best to deflect the blame to try to avoid that. OP could do a lot worse than to consult a lawyer. (Assuming you’re not in a union, OP; if you were, they would be the starting-point.)

              1. Specialk9*

                I really appreciate the anger at the facilities guy and at the quality of the desk. What kind of person loudly and publicly fat shames someone who already feels awful? Oh, hey, how about someone who bought cheap furniture and is trying to deflect blame? It’s pretty ugly.

            2. Falling Diphthong*

              Yeah, I get that OP might not be the first person you choose to stand on a desk to reach something stuck to the ceiling. But I view standing on a desk as a rare but normal thing that would happen in normal use.

              1. Yorick*

                Yeah, this must have been a really poor desk. I’m almost as heavy as OP describes and I routinely lean on my desk in a similar way. I lean on it more heavily than that when I clean the space behind my monitor. I stood on a previous office desk before with no problem.

              2. Elizabeth H.*

                I would not think twice about standing on my desk if I needed to reach something on the ceiling. I’m only about 120 lbs but I feel like it wouldn’t give my pause if one of our tall, male IT people were standing on it either. Like, it’s a desk. Not crazy to expect it to be a stable piece of furniture.

                1. Falling Diphthong*

                  Okay, I do recall a parenting story in which the furniture salesman foolishly told the mom of 10 that a dozen children could dance on this table and it would be fine, where 1 of the 10 children could hear, and the children believed him and got some friends and tried it. But that’s an extreme case.

                2. Cercis*

                  Falling Diphthong – that’s either Please Don’t Eat the Daisies, or an Erma Bombeck. Potentially could be Theresa Bloomingdale (“I Should Have Seen it Coming When the Rabbit Died”) but seems like something from Please Don’t Eat the Daisies. (Why yes, I read a lot of humorous parenting books – why do you ask?)

              3. CmdrShepard4ever*

                I will admit I have leaned on and stood on desks before. But standing on a desk is not normal use that is not what it is designed for or meant to be used. Desk manufacturers would not have to account for that. Currently I have what I believe is a solid wood desk that I believe I could stand on if I wanted to, but I have also worked with cheaper particle board type wood desks that can hold a computer, books and other equipment just fine but that I would not stand on or lean on because it could break.

                I think this is just an unfortunate accident with no real blame to go around. It is understandable and reasonable for the OP to have leaned on the desk. It was reasonable for the person who ordered the desk to think 100 lb weight limit to be more than enough, I would be shocked if everything on my desk right now went over 50 lbs.

                1. VermiciousKnit*

                  As a former interior designer, no. While a home office desk might be that flimsy, absolutely no desk manufactured and approved for commercial use would have a weight limit so low. It is known that desks sometimes have people standing on them, or they must hold a large number of books and materials. A desk with a 100-lb weight limit was a residential-use desk and inappropriate for an office, full stop.

                2. Anjay*

                  I’m pretty sure I remember an actual case from Torts class on this – it was about chairs, not desks, but IIRC the court ruled that standing on chairs is a foreseeable use of those products, and so making chairs which can’t stand up to the foreseeable use opens you up to liability. Standing on desks isn’t the first thing you’d use them for, but it is a foreseeable use. 100 pounds is a ridiculous weight limit.

            3. Dust Bunny*

              I’ve never heard of facilities management actually making the decisions on purchasing furniture, though, so I rather suspect they’re getting pressure from somebody higher up.

              1. Luna*

                Yes, usually someone else is deciding this. I don’t think we would be doing the OP any favors by telling her she should start pointing fingers at other people or hiring lawyers.

                1. Specialk9*

                  I don’t know about others, not personally I wasn’t suggesting lawyers, just pointing out that guy was deeply unkind, and in a way that sounds like he feels guilty and is trying to blame shift. So in other words, OP shouldn’t take on the guilt he’s trying to heap on their head.

              2. else*

                Yeah, at my previous job, an office manager with a lot of seniority got to choose all of the new furniture because she wanted to and had a lot of personal capital, without any consideration of what people actually wanted to do with it or what facilities thought would work best for cleaning and so forth. We ended up with too many uncomfortable chairs, not enough tables, none of the new tech furniture we had wanted, and facilities had to create all kinds of new holes in new furniture in order to get them to take wires the way we needed. Furniture decisions aren’t necessarily made by people who have anything to do with either the care or use of that furniture.

            4. Anonanonanon*

              A desk that can only hold 100 lbs is way too flimsy. Leaning on a desk is such a normal thing to do! If their desks really are that crappy, they should be replacing them, not sending memos.

            5. Hey Nonnie*

              Yeah, I’m pretty boggled at the 100 pounds claim. My desk at work holds two monitors, which are probably 40 pounds each. Add in the monitor risers, phone, keyboard, etc. and it would probably only take a decent-sized textbook to go over 100 pounds. So that seems like an unreasonably low weight rating for everyday office use.

              1. Autumnheart*

                You’d have to be using old CRT monitors for them to be 40 lbs each. That’s how much a 55″ LCD TV weighs. A typical 27″ LCD monitor weighs 18 lbs.

                1. Hey Nonnie*

                  One of them is an all-in-one and is much heavier than the other, so perhaps 40ish pounds plus 25-30 for the other one.

                  They’re also quite big. I never measured them but at a guess more than 35″.

                  The monitor risers came later, so I had to lift these suckers from the desk onto the risers, and they are heavy.

                2. Autumnheart*

                  Again, the only way a monitor or an all-in-one could approach that weight is if it had a CRT monitor (tube screen). There has not been a computer or monitor built in the last 15 years that came anywhere close to 30 lbs, much less 40. I know that for a fact.

                  So in that respect, a 100 lb rating for an office desk seems pretty light (certainly the desks at my office can hold more weight than that—people have stood on them without any sign of instability) but not obscenely so.

                3. Hey Nonnie*

                  By all means double down on discounting my personal experience so you can prove to the internetz how right you are. Whatever you say, dear.

                  Regardless, office desks often need to support substantial weight in computers, reams of paper, binders, files, etc.; so a 100-pound weight rating is very low for practical, usable office furniture. Generally if someone has to worry that bumping into a desk with your hip is going to cause it to collapse, that’s a bad thing.

              2. Ozma the Grouch*

                Yeah, it strikes me as obscene that a table/desk is rated as holding less weight than a chair, to the point that an “average” adult (google says that the average worldwide adult weight is 137lbs) couldn’t even safely lean/stand on this desk. From what I can tell these tables were meant for children’s play rooms, not offices.

              1. 2nd shift*

                As a small part of my job I manage a group of “facilities guys”. Let’s just say there’s a reason why they end up in facilities instead of a job that takes a lot more mental capacity to perform. They are certainly not qualified (nor could they do the math involved) to determine how much weight a desk can hold. A person with those abilities usually ends up on a different career path.

                1. Specialk9*

                  I work closely with Facilities in my work, and find them to be smart and capable, and very responsible. Just so you know that’s not a universal.

          4. CityMouse*

            The coworker.may be upset and lashing out, but they are seriously, seriously injured. They should not be made out as the bad guy for still being upset at OP.

            1. Specialk9*

              Yeah, I don’t like that the broken leg guy is blaming the co-worker, but I get that he’s in pain and may settle down later. It’s everyone else who’s being awful that I am angry at for bullying this OP.

            2. Sara*

              I’ve broken my femur by slipping on a wet floor, and you’re pretty much speechless due to shock. You are also trying not to throw up. And then you get to spend a good chunk in the hospital, likely with emergency surgery and living on pain meds, peeing in a tray and unable care for yourself. The person isn’t being rude by not accepting OP’s apology, they are trying to live with a fairly traumatic experience and get through it. One day you can really chat it out, but for now, send some flowers and deliver their favourite hot drink to them as a start!

        4. OP 2*

          His femur is most definitely broken. I’m not sure how someone could lie about a broken bone and took paramedics and doctors and the government. I don’t know why I’m not being believed here. I don’t have proof to give. I didn’t think I would be questioned be sure of the policy to believe those who wrote in. Sorry Alison and others don’t believe me

          1. Kathletta*

            I don’t know why people aren’t believing you and turning your question into something it isn’t (about some kind of scam).

            I’m sorry this is happening to you OP! I agree with Alison that if you just act normal then everyone else will as well. It’s just an accident after all!

          2. Human*

            I second you and don’t understand why people are reacting with such skepticism. The Wikipedia page for hip fracture even says that the most common cause is an elderly person sustaining a low-energy fall. It also says that there’s a 20% chance of mortality within a year after a hip fracture, so I really feel bad for the guy. He’s going through something incredibly challenging and scary; it’s quite understandable if he doesn’t feel up for accepting an apology.

          3. Indoor Cat*

            Sorry OP2. I didn’t mean to imply that you were lying, just that your co-worker was. I thought maybe they were trying to pull one over on you somehow.

            But, I take it back. I can see how this can happen in a case where nobody is lying, and I shouldn’t have assumed that your coworker is someone of poor character. I apologize.

          4. EMW*

            I don’t think anyone isn’t believing you. Just pointing out that it’s possible work or your coworker had exaggerated the injury since an injury to the femur is very severe.

            The whole situation is very unfortunate and your workplace is treating you horrible.

          5. Ask a Manager* Post author

            Oh my goodness, no — I don’t think anyone meant to imply they didn’t believe you! I think people were just wondering if there had been a miscommunication when the injury got reported, or even if your coworker might have exaggerated the situation. No one is doubting you!

            It’s not helpful speculation anyway, and I can see why it’s frustrating to you as the person who knows what happened, so I’ll ask everyone that we leave that part of the discussion here and focus on advice for you.

          6. MommyMD*

            I don’t know why it’s being questioned either OP. I feel very bad for you in all of this. It will take time but it will blow over.

          7. Wintermute*

            For what it’s worth I think people are going “what? that? that’s unlikely!” because it is… the femur, ounce for ounce, is stronger than concrete, a cube the size of a casino die could hold a semi truck. What happened to you is some seriously bad luck.

            And that just underscores Alison’s point I think: you suffered extraordinary bad luck and your co-worker suffered even worse bad luck. Leaning on a desk does not normally result in someone breaking the strongest bone in the human body, people lean on desks every day, I’ve leaned on at least two I recall today, most of my co-workers have leaned on a desk today, so far the number of femurs broken remains thankfully zero.

            The severity of the injury just goes to strengthen the point that this was a freak occurance and no one could have seen or predicted, If you go around your whole life in fear of accidents this unlikely you’d never move a piano again.

            1. Specialk9*

              Yeah exactly. OP, we’re VERY SYMPATHETIC to you. Any questioning is not of you or your account, but on your behalf, because we’re angry at how your work has treated you (and because something sounds fishy in the way they’re publicly heaping blame on your head). It’s a very sympathetic (to you) skepticism of how trustworthy the people at work are in what they say.

          8. CityMouse*

            My actual advice: keep your head down for a while, be kind and sympathetic, but avoid talking about it as much as possible. There may be legal issues and you should avoid making any part of this gossip. I don’t think trying to publicly defend yourself is a good idea because it can backfire easily. Be kind, hope it blows over. If it doesn’t, consider job searching as this was a big and traumatic enough event that it may be hard to avoid the associtation. I wish I had better or more pleasant advice, but I don’t.

            1. Luna*

              +1. Act as normal as possible; don’t bring it up and if people try to ask you about it keep any responses short, generic and sympathetic (“yes it was a terrible accident, horrible that coworker got hurt so badly, hope he recovers soon” kind of stuff). Don’t try to point fingers at facilities or the desk manufacturer, and don’t accuse your coworker of being a jerk for not accepting your apology. I know human nature is to want people to not be mad at us, but that doesn’t mean anyone is obligated to accept an apology, as uncomfortable as that might make us. You didn’t do this on purpose so you don’t have to go around beating yourself up but your coworker is very badly injured and has a right to his own emotions while he deals with this.

              1. Specialk9*

                Great advice!

                Also, think of anxiety reducing methods, because when though you should not have to take on guilt for this, it’s fairly human to do so anyway.

                I recommend:
                *Chamomile tea (if you don’t like the flavor, add another bag of a flavor you prefer, like mint or berry)
                *One of those rice- or oatmeal- filled socks that get warm in the microwave (for shoulders or belly or back)
                *A stress reducing essential oil roller (I like chamomile, melissa, and neroli oils) at your pulse points. (Essential oils can be less difficult for some people fragrance allergies – this is true for me – but they can still bug some people, so ask.)

          9. Yetanotherjennifer*

            OP, I think the people who are expressing doubt about your story feel a strong sense of empathy with you and are hoping to mitigate the awfulness for you. They are doubting the situation, not you, and only in the hopes of being able to say, “See OP, it’s not so bad, Coworker’s femur couldn’t have possibly broken.”

            I can tell you feel terrible about the situation, but you are also entitled to some righteous indignation. Your coworker and facilities manager are being jerks. Freak accidents happen and can happen to anyone.

            1. Colette*

              The facilities manager is deflecting blame. If you want to call her a jerk, that’s up to you. But the co-worker had a broken femur and is entitled to handle it however he wants. Unless this happened years ago, he’s probably still in a lot of pain and not back to his normal life, and accepting an apology/reassuring the OP is not his first priority. It wasn’t the OP’s fault – she used furniture in a normal way, she wasn’t trying to injure anyone – but the co-worker took the brunt of the accident and ended up with a life-threatening injury. He’s allowed to be angry about that.

            2. Luna*

              I completely disagree. While OP’s name should not have been mentioned in that email, I don’t think she is entitled to righteous indignation of any kind and acting that way will only make her look bad. I don’t understand why people think the facilities manager is to blame for the desk breaking- I doubt they are the ones in control of what gets ordered and how much money is spent on furniture, and they certainly didn’t manufacture the desk. I have no idea whether 100lbs is a standard amount for office desks to be able to hold but if it is then how would facilities control that?
              OP, this situation sucks but you will only make it worse for yourself if you try to blame others for what happened.

              1. Elizabeth H.*

                Where I work facilities management IS in control of what gets ordered and the furniture regulations, that seems like the norm/default to me. I think most people are pointing out that 100 lb maximum weight is very flimsy for office furniture.

                1. CmdrShepard4ever*

                  Since you worked in facilities management I will defer to your expertise, but I don’t think 100 lbs is flimsy, I think that would reasonable support everything you would need on a desk. Right now I have a desktop, 2 monitors, desk lamp, phone, and various office supplies (pens, stapler, tape) and papers on my desk and I would be shocked if all that was more than 50 lbs. I agree leaning on a desk is a think that is commonly done, but that does not make it right or mean that office have to order furniture with that use in mind. People commonly speed 5/10 mph over the limit, jaywalk, or lots of other things, but it is still against the law.

                2. Luna*

                  But that isn’t the case everywhere so we shouldn’t be assuming it is in OP’s company without having that information. I’ve never worked anywhere that had facilities in control of ordering.

                3. Fiennes*

                  I disagree, CmdrShepard. A desk that isn’t for small children should absolutely be able to withstand more than 100 pounds. Put a desktop and printer on there, and you’re well on your way. Besides, yes, the desks should stand up to things that aren’t ordinary day to day but will, in the fullness of office life, inevitably happen. What if someone stumbles nearby and catches their fall on your desk? Do you think it’s AOK that it would come crashing down on you?

                  People lean. People stumble. People carry heavy things and put them down in the wrong place. IT HAPPENS. Anything—office equipment or otherwise—that is designed to only hold up under ideal conditions is by definition unreliable junk.

                4. fposte*

                  @Fiennes–in fact, now that I think about it, it’s pretty common for somebody to lean on the desk when they’re standing up from the desk chair or to push against the desk to push the chair back.

                5. zora*

                  Agreeing with fposte. I have put my full weight on my desk when reaching to access the wall above my desk. A regular office desk should definitely be able to hold more than 100lbs, that is not much at all!

                6. Anion*

                  Yes, but I don’t think standard office desks are ever designed to hold over 400lbs. of weight, figuring all the stuff that would have been on the desk before OP leaned on it. Whether the desk was designed to hold 100 or 200 lbs., it’s still extremely doubtful that it would be designed to hold over 300.

                7. Clare*

                  I posted about this downthread, but we might also be misunderstanding the 100 lb limit comment made by the facilities manager. 100 lbs spread out over the whole surface area is different than 100 lbs of weight and pressure on one spot. It might be that the desks can hold more than 100 lbs over the whole desk, but not 100+ lbs all concentrated in one spot on the surface.

                8. Genny*

                  OP has mentioned the government being involved, which makes me think she works in a government facility. If that’s the case and if she works in a federal facility, there are a ton of rules about how much you can spend, what kind of furniture you can buy, etc. Facilities may do the procurement, but they have very strict bounds in which they can operate.

                9. JamieS*

                  100 pounds is arguably flimsy but OP didn’t put 100 pounds on the desk so that seems like a moot and irrelevant point to me. The desk collapsed under close to 400 pounds (including the other stuff on the desk) and I wouldn’t consider an office desk to be flimsy because it can’t withstand that.

              2. Arjay*

                If the facilities guy has nothing to do with the furniture, then maybe he shouldn’t be making declarations about how much the desk can support, how much weight the OP put on it, or how the OP leaned/sat against it when he didn’t see it happen.

            3. Blue Eagle*

              Obviously you have never had a broken bone. Let me tell you it is no fun to be in a cast, have traction, have a plate inserted next to the bone to assist in the healing process. And then once it is healed you have to go through all the physical therapy.

              For me, it wouldn’t matter if the person did it on purpose or it was an accident, I would not accept their apology as though I should just go on as nothing has happened – – – because it was a MAJOR thing for me to go through but they can easily put it behind them as there is no further physical trauma for them.

              Whether it is a femur or a tibia or a knee, whether the the bone is broken in half or just partially broken – regardless of what the actual injury is, the fact is that the victim sustained a major injury that will require major recovery and will be a major inconvenience. And so many of you commenters just expect the poor victim to absolve the LW just like that. What about the poor victim! Where is the call for the LW to do something to make the victim whole! The victim is NOT a jerk, but someone who has to endure a major disruption to their life.

              p.s. this is a call-out to the commenters and not to the LW who has never referred to the victim as a jerk or said anything negative about the victim.

              1. Gorgo*

                What exactly ~is~ accepting an apology to you?

                Saying “I know you didn’t do this on purpose” isn’t the same as saying “this doesn’t suck” or “you weren’t the cause.”

                You would communicate that you knew something was an accident but wouldn’t forgive it? That’s just cruel.

              2. Anna*

                I don’t think forgiving someone is the same as going on as if nothing happened. But not forgiving them implies (especially in this case) it was malicious. I feel like a lot of people on here like to hold grudges just for the sake of knowing they were the wronged party. Maybe now isn’t the time for the coworker to forgive, but I would be hard-pressed to see the benefit of not acknowledging that it was an accident and forgiving OP’s role in it. What could the coworker possibly get out of not forgiving the OP?

                1. myswtghst*

                  “But not forgiving them implies (especially in this case) it was malicious.”

                  Not necessarily. It could imply that the coworker is still in a lot of pain and figuring out how to deal with the situation, or that they interpreted advice from a lawyer or union rep to mean they should not to accept an apology from *anyone* at work in case it would impact a worker’s comp claim, or, if the apology was via text/email, it could imply the coworker just hasn’t gotten around to responding yet because they’re busy with their own recovery.

                  In this situation, I think it’s best for OP to give their coworker the benefit of the doubt, as well as some time and space to heal, and to be as kind as possible if and when they have to work together again. Assuming the worst isn’t going to help OP, and shaming the coworker who is dealing with a serious injury isn’t helping anyone.

              3. Delphine*

                The LW didn’t do anything that requires absolving. She isn’t required to do anything to make the victim “whole”. She didn’t lean on the desk and know it would break and hurt her coworker.

          10. Nita*

            I’m sorry about all the skepticism, it’s pretty ridiculous. Also, sorry this happened to you both. It was definitely a freak accident, and if that desk could really hold only 100 pounds it was completely inappropriate and unsafe for an office. Most adults weigh over 100 pounds, and most adults think nothing of leaning on desks because normal desks don’t collapse when they do that. If anything, this is facilities’ fault – either they bought really bad furniture, or they didn’t assemble it properly. Even strong furniture can collapse spectacularly when the screws that should hold it together are loose or missing. I also think the memo that called you and the injured coworker out by name was really inappropriate – it seems like publicly shaming you for this.

            1. Alton*

              Plus, I doubt the OP was putting her entire weight on the desk. There’s a difference between sitting on something and leaning on it while some of your weight is still distributed on the floor.

              1. Positive Reframer*

                True but leaning at an angle against it could with less weight could be more likely to cause it to break than sitting or standing directly on it with all your weight. Desks would be designed to handle downward pressure from weight but maybe not as much the more uneven and levered pressure of leaning against it.

                If the issue is with the desks then the company is likely going to explore the option of trying to hold them liable in whole or in part. In the mean time, its not like they are going to come in overnight and replace all the desks, so to avoid further issues they have to address it somehow to help cover themselves.

            2. myswtghst*

              Agreed on all counts. This really sounds like an unfortunate accident that caused harm to both OP and their coworker, which their workplace is now making that much worse by calling out people by name in the memo.

          11. Temperance*

            I’m sorry that you went through this, that your coworker ended up with a serious injury, and that some people might be doubting you. I think that it’s more of a case of thinking that your injured colleague is exaggerating things, for some reason … but that’s also not okay.

          12. else*

            I think people are doing the thing where they try so hard to figure out why something bad that happened is unlikely to happen to THEM that they are coming across as doubting your account. Normal but irritating thing for people to do, and I don’t think that they actually doubt you at all.

        7. MommyMD*

          I’ve seen and treated many femur fractures over the years and this scenario is not inconsistent with causing one. It depends on the fall, the angle, the weight, the patient’s underlying bone structure and any underlying problems. I wouldn’t be so fast to dismiss it or minimize it. JMO.

          1. Not So NewReader*

            This.
            My boss fell, she landed in a sitting position. She broke her back. It’s the physics of the fall plus the person’s over all health.

            Later, I made the same fall in front of her, and she was beside herself. My fall was different. I kept my body upward and forward a little bit AND I landed on a wood floor. She landed on concrete. I was fine.

            1. PhyllisB*

              Ugh!! Years ago I slipped on wet carport, fell in a sitting position and it broke my tailbone. I had three children by natural childbirth and this hurt more than all that pain together. It was two years before I could sit or stand comfortably. As a side-note a couple of years ago I had an x-ray done (can’t remember why now) that showed the pelvic region. My doctor was puzzled why the pelvis was out of line. I said probably from breaking my tail-bone years ago. He asked me why I didn’t come to him at the time of injury. I asked him what was he going to do about it? Put my butt in a sling? After he quit laughing he acknowledged there was nothing he could have done.

        8. Slartibartfast*

          Brute force isn’t the only factor at play when it comes to bones breaking, though. There’s a lot of dynamic motion, twisting and whatnot, as the desk is collapsing, and if that motion gets concentrated in a small area, then it’s totally plausible. The front edge of the desk perpendicular to the thigh, if the desktop wasn’t flat to the coworker’s lap at the time of impact, for example, could create a large amount of force on a small enough area to break a bone. Particularly if the leg is trapped with one end in a chair and the other with nothing supporting it. There’s also different types of fracture, which would take far too long to get into here. But for what it’s worth, as someone from a medical background, this accident resulting in a broken femur seems easily possible.

        9. I Love Thrawn*

          A few weeks ago, my 75 year old ex co worker (maint. guy) broke his femur right in front of me. I was holding the door for him, he somehow got twisted up in his cane and/or his leg weakened, and he went down, and then fell backwards on to the concrete walk. In the process he broke his femur. He was probably about 180. Nothing fell on him, just his own body weight, I guess.

        10. theanagrace*

          Fun Fact of the Day! In Canada saying sorry is such a common vocal tic that it isn’t considered an admission of guilt, but an expression of sympathy. So in Canada after a car accident you can say sorry and still not assume fault.

            1. Morticia*

              For us it’s normal. The joke is that one day we’ll take over the world, and then everyone will be sorry. ;)

          2. Specialk9*

            I believe that’s actually true in the US too. Lawyers have posted that in threads here before. “I’m sorry” is such a common utterance and means so many things other than “I admit to full and complete responsibility for this situation”.

        11. JAnon*

          Agreed! I know one person who broke a femur, and they were driving and slammed into a wall, so their leg compressed at speed. A desk falling should not break a femur. Not to mention that a desk should hold more than 100 lbs. With a computer, standing desk, and other things on mine,it would have collapsed already if that was the case!

        12. PNW Flowers*

          You’re not this person’s MD, so you really can’t say they didn’t break their femur. People have all kinds of conditions that may weaken their bones, or it got caught at just the right angle, etc. You don’t really get to declare there is no way their femur is broken. People break their femurs from ground level falls FREQUENTLY. It’s a big deal. Also, its certainly possible the coworker fell on the employee. 350 lbs would certainly break most/a lot of bones.

            1. PNW Flowers*

              Nope, speaking to all the commentators like Princess CBH who think they somehow know all there is to know re: fractures. Hint- they don’t.

              1. Specialk9*

                She’s already said that wasn’t her intent, she was pointing out it was a freak accident.

        13. Kate 2*

          But is a human femur that strong in all ways? Or is it like an egg, strong one way, easy to break when pressure is applied a very particular way?

          Gotta say I find it entirely believable that 350 pounds plus desk plus computer landing on top of someone’s legs would break one of them! Maybe this person had their legs (femurs) crossed and the one broke the other with all the weight behind it?

          1. Anion*

            Yes, I’m not getting the idea that roughly 400 lbs. weight (or more, if the desk weighs thirty pounds or so and has a computer and books and such on it, it could easily be 100 lbs. on its own) is not enough to break a human bone. If that’s not enough, then jeez, what does it take? I’ve seen people who weigh roughly what the OP weighs break their own legs or ankles just by tripping over stuff, and nobody tells them it’s not enough weight to break the bone.

            Nancy Kerrigan’s knee was jacked up from being hit by nowhere near that amount of weight/pressure. So why the disbelief?

        14. JustaTech*

          I went to camp one year in high school with a guy who had broken his femur playing basketball (just fell wrong), so it is possible, but very unusual.

        15. Totally Minnie*

          I have a friend with a bone disease. He’s broken both of his femurs over the course of his life so far. Maybe the coworker with the broken leg is in a similar positon.

        16. Safetykats*

          Okay – from an engineering perspective what needs to be understood here is the difference between a distributed load and a non-distributed load, and the difference between an accelerated impact and a non-accelerated load. Your desk might be rated for over 100lbs if distributed load – but less than that amount, applied as a side-load in a manner that causes torque to a sing,e support might easily collapse it. Your femur is a strong bone, but an accelerated impact to a single point on the bone – as might be caused by a sudden collapse of a desk, and impact of the weight of the desk and everything on it concentrated on a single point on the bone, with the leg in a horizontal position and constrained by the lower leg (and floor) on one and and the chair on the other… the femur is a strong bone, but the physics is against you. Really, there is simply no way to say this couldn’t happen.

          The lesson about the desk is simply that all furniture should be used only for it’s intended purpose. Chairs are for sitting in, not standing in. Desks are for sitting at, not sitting or leaning on. Bookcases are for holding books, not using as ladders. Bureaus are for holding clothes, not televisions (and that particular misuse us still killing children at a horrible rate). You simply cannot blame the furniture for failing when it’s been used outside its design basis.

      2. Greg M.*

        actually I can picture that, because well they were leaning and suddenly what they were leaning on gave way so the probably fell with it driving a solid piece of particle board into the person’s leg.

        1. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

          I apologize if I gave the impression that a desk can’t break a femur—of course it can! I was more trying to convey that it sounds like a freak accident (albeit a very serious and dangerous one), not an injury that OP could have foreseen or prevented prior to leaning on the desk.

      3. Valegro*

        A client of mine fell out of his wooden desk chair and broke his femur on the leg of the base. He wasn’t elderly. It can happen.

      4. BananaRama*

        At my work we had a woman knock the desk when she was putting away her purse and the whole thing, monitors and all, fell on her. She had a severe concussion and something happened to a disk in her upper back. Facilities said a screw must have been loose for the desk to collapse like that. She was on worker’s comp for a significant period of time.

        Sometimes it’s all about hitting things at precisely the right/wrong angle to cause maximum damage.

        1. Nita*

          Yeah. Freak accidents happen. A coworker of mine was talking to someone behind me, and leaning on the bookcase that separated our cubicles. Somehow the entire bookcase tipped over and fell on me. I didn’t see it coming of course, and the only reason it didn’t smash my head in was that the back of my chair stopped it. I ended up with a nasty bruise on the back of my neck, but luckily that was all. He was really shaken and texted me after I went home to make sure I wasn’t getting worse. I’d like to think that even if I’d gotten hurt more seriously, I would still have been understanding that it was an accident – but who knows, people think differently when they’re looking at a long recovery that puts them out of work and possibly in financial trouble…

          I don’t know how this happened – he’s not that burly, he wasn’t leaning on it hard, and no one had noticed it being unstable before – my best guess is that the way I’d loaded it with books made it easier to tip. I took the heaviest books off the bottom shelf after that and thankfully, it never fell again.

      1. LS*

        I’m also a heavy person and check weight limits, and a lot of furniture has ridiculously low weight limits, presumably to avoid lawsuits. Most toilet seats, for example, are only guaranteed to 45kg/99lb. Most desk chairs to 45kg/120lb. Just because that’s the official tested limit doesn’t mean that it will actually only hold 100lb. It’s ridiculous to blame OP #2 for it, but this is an actual nightmare of mine, and the same for a lot of fat people, I suspect.

        1. Tardigrade*

          Most desk chairs to 45kg/120lb.

          Wait, this is less than the average weight of people. What?!

        3. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

          Ugh, tell me about it. Every so many years my friends get treated to my angry ranting while I search for a new desk chair for my home.

          (My most recent chair has lasted admirably — which it damn well should, for the price I paid! But I’ve also had to have movers get it when changing homes, because it’s extraordinarily heavy for a standard rolly desk chair.)

        4. Mockingjay*

          I just tried to look up weight capacities for office desks. I couldn’t find any listed by retailers or manufacturers, or in standards (ANSI, etc.). I did find lots of people asking the same question.

          You’d think that load weight would be calculated and listed somewhere for office furniture.

          1. One legged stray cat*

            I looked up the cheap desks in Ikea. Some are indeed only rated for 150 lbs and only with the weight evenly distributed and not at one point. Seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen. Standing/sitting desks are the worse. A lot are just rated for 40lbs or so. Most desks though are rated for 300 lbs.

            1. Mallory Janis Ian*

              I got a secondhand Ikea loft bed when my son was in fourth grade or so. I looked up the assembly instructions online and saw that the bed was rated for 125 lbs. My fourth-grader weighed about 75 pounds at the time, and that’s just the weight of someone standing still; it doesn’t account for climbing up and down the ladder, tossing and turning in the middle of the night, etc. I ended up not using that bed because I didn’t want my child climbing up some flimsy contraption.

              Tl;dr furniture shouldn’t be so flimsy, and people’s standing-still weight isn’t the maximum stress they put on furniture.

        5. Former Retail Manager*

          I have recently been shopping for a new bed frame, a metal one, and I was astonished to see what I would consider very low weight limits on a metal bed frame that itself weighs 300 pounds, but cannot hold more than 425? That seems off to me. My husband and I combined are right around 500. I had no idea about desk chairs and hadn’t considered the lawsuit angle. Thanks for sharing. The struggle is indeed real.

        6. Amelia*

          120? That’s crazy. What percentage of adults weigh under 120? I wouldn’t get more than 20%.
          A quick google search says the average weight of an American is 178lbs.

          1. Ozma the Grouch*

            The worldwide average adult weight is 137 (also according to google). So even when you go global 120lbs is too low.

        7. Cornflower Blue*

          I once had a desk chair break under me within 2 months of purchase. I grew up small (under 50kg until my twenties/stuff happened) so I was not prepared for how drastically different my world would be when my weight doubled. My friend, who’s been a bigger girl all her life, told me that I cannot sit cross-legged on desk chairs like I used to because they are not made to take weight like ours.

          It’s a constant fear of mine that my office chair will break and now I’m going to add ‘accidentally injuring coworker’ to said fear. And definitely NOT lean on anyone’s desk.

          Poor LW, I hope the coworker calms down soon and the furnishing dude pulls his head out of the sand. Blaming her weight for the furniture being shoddy is just cruel.

    3. paul*

      They could be buying that RTA stuff and putting it together wrong. About the only possibility I can think of.

      I mean, I’m pretty sure I’ve got north of 100 lbs of crap on my desk at my office and it’s like…third hand (but might be a decent brand) between my monitors, tower, tons of books, a couple of file boxes, and assorted office supplies.

      1. All. Is. On.*

        A former co-worker and I used to have desks facing each other with no divider, and one summer she got really into feng shui and talked me into splitting the cost of a fish tank and goldfish to ‘nurture the workspace’. She left shortly after and now four years later I’m stuck with a 45 lb fish tank I have to clean every other week. It just occurred to me what a nightmare it would be if the desk broke!

        1. Falling Diphthong*

          Sigh. I remember waiting for the fish to die so we could retire the tank. Stubborn little buggers.

          1. Oxford Coma*

            This is why you never get live bearers. I am stuck forever unless I want to start euthanizing fish, which I only do in cases of severe illness or injury. The fry are too small and too fast to catch!

    5. Knitting Cat Lady*

      Yeah, this.

      Over here the facility management people regularly STAND on the desks when repairing over head lights.

      And one of them is a big burly two meters tall block of solid muscle. His biceps is bigger than my thigh! And our desks don’t break under his weight!

      Are those desks made of cardboard?

      1. Gatomon*

        Exactly! Are these the kind of office furniture you might find at a big box store? I’ve had that particle board furniture literally disintegrate with a bit of force applied in the right direction (but even then it takes years for it to get to that point).

      2. Mustache Cat*

        big burly two meters tall block of solid muscle. His biceps is bigger than my thigh

        Sooooo….can anyone call maintenance or…..?

      3. Not So NewReader*

        In retail, companies have policies not to stand on crates and other questionable items. However, people still do it all the time. If they get injured the response is, “You were told not to do that.”

        1. Someone else*

          That’s exactly what I was thinking. And I KNOW I’ve put a couple of those boxes on a desk at one time for one reason or another. 100lbs is an absurdly low limit for a desk in this century.

      5. Dust Bunny*

        No joke–I work in a library and, except for one ridiculous and much-hated set of tables, everything we his this workplace using, fourth-hand IKEA??

        1. Dust Bunny*

          Ugh, website is being weird today . . . except for that one set of tables, everything we have is built like a brick [out]house, because books are heavy and institutional furniture takes a beating. What is this place using, fourth-hand IKEA??

    6. JamieS*

      I’ve seen desks that I seriously doubt would hold a normal sized adult’s weight. It’s pretty obvious just from looking at them though which makes me wonder what the desk looked like because either OP’s office is full of it or it should have been obvious people shouldn’t be leaning on them.

    7. PB*

      I completely agree! A couple years ago, when we were getting our carpets cleaned, I stacked all the rest of my office furniture on top of my desk, including a couple carts of books. The desk didn’t so much as creak.

    8. Kittymommy*

      Quite frankly, no matter who was leaning on the desk, facilities bought a crappy piece of furniture. I’m trying to think of a work desk that only holds 100 lbs. While would think that’s a good purchase??? How about instead of sending out an email “warning” everyone about the incident (and imo, trying to body shame people) the workplace stop taking the cheap route and get actual office furniture.

      1. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

        THIS.

        Honestly, buying desks that collapse when someone leans on them is pretty shockingly negligent. Your furniture should be able to stand up to normal expected use, and leaning on a desk is pretty damn normal!

        1. CmdrShepard4ever*

          Normal use is not the same as intended use under the law. It is like smoke shops that sell tobacco pipes and other tobacco accessories they can get away with it because their intended use is for tobacco, I think everyone knows that is not what they are normally used for. Most smoke shops if you mention you want to use it for pot will refuse to sell it to you because at that point I believe it becomes illegal.

          1. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

            I’m… I’m not sure that selling bongs under the excuse they’re going to be used for tobacco is all that comparable to understanding that sometimes people lean on surfaces like desks and that should be planned for.

            1. CmdrShepard4ever*

              You are right, what I was trying to say is the employer is not legally required to order equipment for uses other than what they are intended for. Yes ordering sturdy desks is better but you can’t say they are legally liable for only ordering desks that are meant for being used as desks and not as stools for standing or leaning. If the employer required someone to change an overhead light and refused to order ladders or step stools and told people just stand on your desk or chair to change the light and it broke then they could be held responsible. But just because a lot of people use something a certain way that it was not designed or intended for does not make it right.

              1. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

                I mean, I feel like “a person might lean some portion of their weight on this” is a pretty normal expectation for a desk. Think about a manager leaning over someone’s shoulder and putting a hand down on the desk surface for balance! Beyond that, “this might at some point have to hold more than 100 pounds” is also an extremely normal expectation. My tower and two monitors are both on my desk — I’m not sure that they outright weigh more than 100lbs, but they’re probably taking up a significant chunk of that (the monitor stand is also quite heavy, probably to keep the monitors balanced).

                1. CmdrShepard4ever*

                  I agree, I lean on desks before, I have even sat on them putting my full weight on it. I don’t disagree that it is normal defined as “a lot of people do it.” A coworker once had a desk that was the particle board type that was pretty old some of the joints were kind of worn out a bit, when ever I would come over at first the coworker would tell me not to lean on the desk, even after a while I would forget and start to put a hand on the desk while looking at something and they would remind me not to do that. I agree companies should purchase sturdy solid wood desks, but legally they are not required to and can purchase flimsy desks as long as they don’t require people to put things on their desk that go over the weight limit.
                  I think Countess you are talking about things from a common sense perspective and I am talking about them from a legal meeting minimum standards perspective.

                2. CmdrShepard4ever*

                  Ugh I apologize today my mind is not working correctly and all my post are full of typos and incoherent mixing of phrases. I have never been the best with grammar but today is worse than usual.

                3. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

                  I get what you’re saying, but I think in terms of workplace safety the office has to think about reasonable use, not just ideal use.

                4. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

                  Countess, you’re right. If someone was evaluating this for negligence, they wouldn’t look exclusively at what the intended use is—they’d look at what a reasonable person would expect to be able to use their desk for and whether the company had disclaimed any of those expected uses. I don’t know that the company is liable for buying desks with inadequate load support, but they certainly share some of the responsibility for the injury.

                  Thankfully, the liability part doesn’t really matter because this gets swept up under workers’ comp.

    9. tink*

      Right? I’ve got foldable card tables that can handle weight better than that. And every actual desk I can think of (even children’s desks) can hold over 100lbs of weight without collapsing.

    10. Wendy Darling*

      At my previous workplace it was not unknown for people to stand on desks to reach things on rare occasions. I can’t imagine anything but the cheapest, flimsiest desk collapsing because someone perched on the edge!

    11. biff welly*

      I came here to say just that. My desk itself weighs a couple hundred pounds probably and its not even fancy or anything, just standard issue office furniture.

    12. ket*

      This actually was a huge deal when I was looking for a desk a year ago. I looked & looked and many of the desks I found were rated for 80 pounds, maybe even 100 pounds. That’s ludicrous. What if I lean on it, I actually thought to myself? I want a sturdy desk!! I ended up buying a secondhand desk that was originally over $700 because I could not find *anything* for less than $700 new that would support more than 120 lbs. I also drew out plans for building my own, but instead found this steel & glass thing through Craigslist.

    13. Safetykats*

      Actually, most office desks are rated to hold surprisingly little weight. We had a desk collapse at my last company from the weight of a good-sized plant that an employee placed on the desk because the carpets were being cleaned that night. I’m guessing the plant (and pot and dirt) probably weighed 50 lbs at the most. The desk simply wasn’t designed to hold that much weight all on one end – and in addition to being overloaded it was unbalanced. Facilities told us they weren’t surprised.

  4. ElleKat*

    I just want to send good vibes to OP2. A desk doesn’t support more than 100 pounds? I daresay MOST ADULTS weigh more than 100 pounds, so I feel this could have happened to anyone. Maybe instead of taunting “fatty fatty two by four” the facilities manager should get some furniture that’s actually safe to use. So sorry, OP2, that sounds mortifying and I hope you don’t have to work with these people long.

    1. LouiseM*

      Said the same thing downthread before seeing your comment…absolutely, the facilities manager is at fault here! Reprehensible.

      1. Clare*

        Im not sure the facilities manager can be blamed, at my company facilities orders what we ask them to since the costs are being paid by the department or company. So we dont know who made the decision to order these desks at OP’s company.

    2. Kathletta*

      Completely agree, 100 pounds is so low!! How can they even be used normally with such a low weight limit!?

    3. Ruth (UK)*

      I am an underweight (my BMI is lower than 18.5) adult who still is over 100 pounds so I could have broken that desk. So as you say, it’s a desk that would not support the weight of almost any adult. I also think that considering how op just leaned on it, not proper sat, it was probably a matter of time before one of these overly flimsy desks fell down and hurt someone. The fact that it hurt someone so much on this occasion is just chance.

      1. Wintermute*

        I daresay that almost every adult who is not severely, dangerously underweight is over 100lb. 90 pounds is considered the line between the low end of normal and the upper end of clinically low body weight for a female 4’10” tall.

        1. Rebecca in Dallas*

          That’s extreme and body-shaming. I’m a very healthy adult who is just over 100 lbs.

        2. Nita*

          It could be build, too. I’m 5’2″ and ever since I hit my adult weight, I’ve hovered between 95 and 100 pounds. At one point I tried eating much more than I normally would, in hopes that I’d gain some extra weight and it would give me curves :) Nope. I just can’t gain any more – this seems to be my healthy weight even though my BMI is just below the “underweight” cutoff. It’s massively annoying, because I cannot donate blood (you have to be over 100 lb) and have a hard time finding clothes outside of “petite” departments in stores, but I can’t do a whole lot about it. The only time I clear 100 easily is when I’m pregnant, but even then I have trouble putting on the recommended 30 pounds.

          1. T3k*

            Just a side note: it’s actually 110lbs. minimum to donate (found out when my college was running it’s annual blood drive and realized I couldn’t because I was below the weight requirement).

    4. Excel Slayer*

      I’ve only weighed under 100 pounds once in my life, and that’s when I was severely underweight.

    5. Nonnon*

      I looked up what 100lbs is in metric: it’s about 45kg. Or far smaller than the average human. (In dog terms, that’s just over the size of a Giant Schnauzer.)

      I guess it’s sensible to issue a thing saying “don’t lean on the desks”, but at some point it’s going to happen again, because people lean. Also, I’m pretty sure that a desktop computer and a few large files would cause strain on desks like that.

    6. Confused*

      Or maybe adults should not sit on desks? I’m not slim (obese medically actually) and I wouldn’t sit on a desk. I’ve broken flimsy chairs. People keep dancing around this but OP is morbidly obese! He/she has been upfront about that and should know better than to sit on a desk!

      OP, your coworker will eventually forgive you but I would imagine that broken femur is painful, with a long recovery and lots of medical bills. It was an accident, but I can see why he is upset with you. He should be out on recovery for a while – perhaps send something nice with an apology note to his home. There is nothing more you can do.

        1. Confused*

          I’m not telling OP what to do with his or her weight. No adult at any weight should sit on a coworker’s desk. He/she says she “didn’t sit fully” but “rested hips/palms” on the desk. They shouldn’t sit on a desk at any size, but especially not at 350 lbs. I don’t see how that’s fat-shaming. I haven’t told OP to lose weight, change their body, or do anything besides reiterate the point that they shouldn’t do that again.

          1. Specialk9*

            You wrote several times that they are morbidly obese and shouldn’t have leaned on the desk. It’s impossible not to read that as blaming them for the whole thing because of their weight.

            1. Confused*

              I mean, this is true. The “100 lbs” things from facilities is probably a lie, since is is rude and probably illegal to say “If you are obese, do not lean on a desk.” Saying 100 lbs ensures that 99% of adults won’t be at or below this weight and the company is free from liability. Everyone here is being willfully ignorant when they act like OP’s weight had nothing to do with this. If OP was tall and knocked something over by not being careful, my response would be the same.

        1. Harper the Other One*

          I didn’t realize there’s another Harper here! I hope I didn’t cause any confusion. I’m modifying my name accordingly.

        2. Confused*

          The letter says OP “didn’t sit fully.” The comments here are being more charitable than OP him/herself. The letter indicates that they did put their weight on the desk even if they didn’t plop down on it.

          1. fposte*

            Nobody’s saying her weight wasn’t on the desk–obviously it was. But it seems pretty clear she’s differentiating between leaning, with her feet still on the ground but her hips and hands on the desk, and sitting, where your feet no longer carry weight. We can’t know how much weight the desk was bearing at that point and it probably wasn’t a constant anyway, because it depends on position, force, etc.

            I don’t know how much it ultimately matters anyway, but it seems pretty clear that yes, she put weight on it, but no, she didn’t sit on it.

      3. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

        Or maybe you should actually try reading the OP’s letter. They did not sit on the desk.

        1. Confused*

          Maybe you should try it yourself. They said they “didn’t sit fully” but rested their “hips and palms” on the desk. To me, that indicates that he/she may have sat a little too far on it, but didn’t just plop down on it.

          1. Mishsmom*

            Maybe you should try backing off once you were told you are fat shaming. You don’t have to understand why it is – just that it is. Insisting on your POV after being told over and over by others that it is insulting (and wrong) is just a shitty thing to do. I’m sure AAM is going to not print this. But I had to say it.

            1. Confused*

              I haven’t said that OP needs to lose weight or change her body in any way. You are reading into this and possibly projecting. No adult, be they 100 or 400 lbs, should lean or sit on someone else’s desk, and especially not hard enough to break.

              OP is morbidly obese, as a medical term (unless OP is Shaq). I am not saying OP is ugly, or a bad employee, or anything negative about them whatsoever, I am merely stating a fact. I am not saying that OP needs to change their weight or apologize for being a larger person. The fact is, they are a larger person. More weight on a desk – more means to break it. I think the fact that they were named and shamed by the facilities manager is unprofessional and extremely rude, as it simply could have been stated “Employees should not sit on or lean on desks, as they are not designed to support that.” But all of this refusal to say that OP is a larger person is ridiculous. They have said so themselves in the letter! They clearly would not include that fact if it wasn’t relevant.

              And you’ll see I commented earlier, that all OP should do to smooth things over is apologize, maybe send a nice card or something small to the injured party, and move on. All this being offended over OP being large is a little ridiculous.

            2. Round and realistic*

              As a fat person, what you are doing is more of an insult than someone simply stating a fact, especially since the OP willingly told us that in the letter. Why on earth would you think a fat individual would be so thin-skinned that he wouldn’t be able to hear simple fact? Being fat does not make you weak, despite what you insinuate with your overprotective comment.

      4. Levy Tate*

        OP is being fat shamed by their coworkers, can we not do it here too? The OP is aware of their weight.

        They didn’t sit on the desk. They leaned on it. The desk can only handle 100 lbs which is much less than what most average adults weigh. I don’t think the OP did anything so out of the norm, even given his/her weight, that (s)he deserve to be treated with the level of scorn they’re receiving.

        I get why the coworker isn’t keen to forgive the OP. Accident or not, I know I’ve been angry when someone injured me. I was reluctant to accept an apology until I felt better. Perhaps the injured party will be more apt to accept an a sincere apology at a later point.

        The head of facilities, however, is being horrible. “More than four times…” was mean spirited and specifically meant to humiliate the OP. It was uncalled for.

        1. Anna*

          This is what I think. The coworker needs some time to heal a little and get through the pain and discomfort. All the OP can do is be genuine in their apology and hopefully the coworker will realize it was an accident and forgive the OP for their role in it.

        2. Em*

          Very mean spirited. And mean spirited and unnecessary to name OP in the memo telling people not to lean on the flimsy desks.
          Injury aside, I think it would be embarrassing for most people to lean on a desk and have it collapse. OPs weight aside as well, I think many people would feel shamed if this happened and a memo went around saying don’t lean on the desks and break them like EM did. There is definitely an added element of fat shaming going on in the facility manager’s response.
          OP, you have my complete sympathy. You are taking the brunt of the blame for the faulty equipment and the freak accident. I think you’ve gotten good advice to proceed normally — if those desks collapse at 100 pounds, then it was an accident that could have happened to anyone in your office. If it were me and I had some co-workers I was fairly friendly and comfortable with, I might also mention to them that I felt like the facilities manager was trying to shame me. Also, if someone did mention sitting on the desk, I would probably correct them and say that of course I wasn’t sitting on it.
          The office story shouldn’t be about op sitting on a desk and breaking it; it should be about the poor quality office furniture failing under normal usage.

    7. Justme, The OG*

      I know tweens that weigh that much. A desk for an adult that wouldn’t support 100 lbs is unfathomable to me.

    8. Bea*

      Exactly. Your desk should be at very least as sturdy as a chair, this cheap balsa wood bullshht is outrageous!!

  5. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

    OP#2, this is really not your fault. First, your coworker refusing to accept your apology is a jerk. Second, your facilities person is an ass (also, what proper office desks only support 100 lbs of weight? Most adults would overload a desk like that). Third, whoever distributed a memo attempting to name and shame you is also a jerk.

    Assuming this hasn’t happened at work before (and based on your experience and reaction, I don’t think it has), the only person who isn’t behaving like a jerk is you. Was this experience awful? Absolutely. Should you be treated unkindly and embarrassed further for it? No. This sounds like it was just bad luck, and now you know that the desks are lightweight. Keep your head up; I’m sorry you’re going through this.

    1. Artemesia*

      I have spent a lot of time in the front of classrooms — high school and college — and I have leaned on every desk in them and sat on a fair number. This is very typical in treatment of desks. Yes when you are heavy you do need to be extra careful about putting stress on furniture especially in ways that are not its primary purpose — but leaning on a desk or even sitting on it, is a pretty normal thing and it seems pretty clear that the desk was the problem here.

      It sounds like this story is being embelished and that you are being publicly shamed, partly as CYA on their part. I hope you can get some support in the workplace. Yes — a really terrible injury — a broken femur is terrible — but also really poor facilities maintenance. Sorry you have to deal.

    2. Jess*

      Oh wow, it’s a *broken femur* and the co-worker would certainly have been told explicitly OP2 is at fault if the company is throwing OP2 so much blame in general office communications. In those circumstances I do know if I’d accept an apology either. Can’t believe how little sympathy there is to a person who is probably in traction right now.

      1. MommyMD*

        I agree the empathy is lacking. I don’t think he’s being a jerk per se. I think he’s in pain, astonished that he was so severely injured while sitting at his desk, and needs some time to come around. It’s a long recovery.

      2. Myrin*

        The thing is, while the company might be able to shape the narrative for everyone who didn’t witness the incident, the injured coworker was there. He knows that he was sitting at his desk and OP was leaning against it, not sitting on it or crawling on it or jumping on it, so no matter what the company tells him, he should be able to discern that OP behaved completely normally and office-appropriately with regards to his desk.

        I’m pretty sure that the “jerk” comments stem from that and, to a lesser degree, from the fact that OP apologised and is clearly embarrassed and feels terrible that he got hurt. Of course, apologies and feeling horrible don’t necessitate someone being forgiven in general but really, this is a case whose outcome OP couldn’t have predicted in any way and which could have happend to literally anyone apart from someone very, very light; not accepting an apology in this case means that the coworker thinks this was OP’s fault in any way and, well, that is indeed a jerk move in this scenario.

        All that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t feel compassion towards colleague’s injury, though. He’s probably distressed and in pain and constantly being reminded of this strange and painful accident happening to him. It’s also entirely possible that his non-acceptance of the apology is caused by all that stress and pain and he’ll be able to come around and see the situation more clearly once he’s feeling better.

        1. Colette*

          A lot of that depends on the situation. Did the OP apologize while he’s lying injured on the floor? He would have been in a lot of pain, and accepting an apology would not be his top priority. (Were his medical bills covered? What major life events did he miss? What impact did the injury have on his live overall? Is he usually easy to get along with? Does he always see himself as a victim?)

          Maybe he’s a jerk, but he’s not required to prioritize the OP’s feelings about the situation over his own.

          1. Myrin*

            Oh, absolutely! Something about “My colleague did not accept when I apologized.” makes me think that this was a more “formal” apology that happened later and not in the moment, but obviously I don’t know that.

            I’m somewhat going back and forth on this in my head.
            On the one hand (and as I said above), I’m firmly of the mind that just because someone apologised for something, even sincerely and earnestly, doesn’t mean you have to forgive them. It’s okay to be apologised to and still decide that you can’t forgive what this person did. On the other hand, I’m not sure “forgiveness” is the key in a situation like this one here; I view the acceptance of an apology in such a case more as a “I acknowledge and realise that this was not something you did intentionally”, not as a “I don’t have weird and changed feelings towards you now that you were involved in something so traumatising for me”.

            (Ultimately, I’m not quite sure if it matters in the end. It matters with regards to whether some people on an internet forum think of him as a jerk or not, but OP’s question seems to boil down to “How should I be acting at work?” which doesn’t really have a lot to do with the jerk verbiage.)

        2. Nita*

          The coworker may not really know whether OP sat on the desk or not. They were probably looking down at the papers, not at OP, and suddenly there’s a crash and the desk falls on them and they’re on the floor with a broken leg. It would be understandable if they were confused about how it all happened.

        3. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

          Absolutely this. A femur injury is awful, severe, and very dangerous. I don’t blame the coworker for being upset, in pain, and distressed. I can’t imagine what he’s going through. But if OP has apologized, especially after the coworker returned to the office, then the bare minimum is to accept the apology. It doesn’t mean the coworker has forgiven OP or is ok with what happened or is a horrible person, but there has to be some level of graciousness when awful incidents like this occur. If OP had been cavalier or had failed to apologize, I would feel very differently.

          1. fposte*

            I don’t think the co-worker is back in the office yet, or is expected to be soon.

            I’m a big fan of accepting apologies, but I also don’t think it’s de rigueur. I don’t think you make a thing out of not accepting it, but I can think of plenty of situations where I just wouldn’t be able to put down my rage for a minute to soothe somebody else, even if the disaster wasn’t their fault. I understand, for instance, if you’re the spouse or parent of somebody who, say, drove drunk and killed themselves and their passenger, that the passenger’s family might not be up for accepting an apology, even if they don’t hold it against the driver’s family.

            1. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

              Sure. The timing and context matter. Maybe I was overly harsh to call the coworker a jerk. If everything happened as OP described, I think it’s uncharitable to refuse an apology after time has passed. But it’s still the injured person’s prerogative to determine how to treat an apology after experiencing such an awful injury.

            2. Not So NewReader*

              I had the impression that OP apologized in the moment. In times of crisis, OP, sometimes my hearing goes away. Not in the traditional sense, I still hear sounds around me but I don’t comprehend or absorb what those sounds are or what they mean. Panic/pain does this to a lot of people.
              I remember a car accident where the other driver came over to talk to me and both of us kept repeating ourselves. She was clearly a very nice person with good intentions But we both kept saying the same things: “are you alright”; “yes, are you alright?” ; “yes, are you alright?” and on and on. We kind of smiled at our own panic/foolish behavior with the repetitions. Eh, this is what happens in crisis.

              It would have been good if your coworker could have said something to make you feel off the hook fo this one but they didn’t. I think the biggest problem is how your company is handling every part of this story.

        4. Little Bean*

          Is it possible that the injured coworker was advised by a lawyer not to accept an apology until the worker’s comp issue has been settled?

      3. EditorInChief*

        This has my blood boiling. I cannot believe that people are painting the co-worker as a lying villain here, and that he’s a “jerk” for not accepting her apology. I wouldn’t accept her apology either. Depending on the severity, that can be a life altering physical injury. We don’t know the victim’s personal circumstances. In my situation I care for a senior family member who I need to be able to help lift out of bed, and I play a sport regularly at an international competitive level, neither of which I would be able to do with such an injury and recovery time.

        1. CityMouse*

          Seconding this. Coworker is horribly injured. My Dad has suffered from pain his entire life from femur and has had surgeries decades later. Please do not pile on coworker for not performing to your expectations. They are seriously hurt. Tbey are allowed to be upset and not tell OP that it is okay for a while. A long while.

        2. Mookie*

          The co-worker is free to accept the LW’s apology or not, but what the LW did is not unreasonable and the person responsible is whoever knowingly provided shoddy equipment to this office. That this is a public / civil service job certainly explains some things, but the negligence belongs neither to the LW or her injured colleague. This needs to be nipped in the bud now, and the problem is not that someone weighs 350 lbs and behaves like a normal human being (leaning against something). This was a disaster waiting in the wings to arrive on stage. The LW’s weight is a red herring, given that most adults exceed the incredibly low capacity of 100 lbs.

          1. Confused*

            Honestly, it is a little unreasonable! I don’t know what exactly OP was doing, but if she was SITTING on a desk, she should know not to do that at 350 lbs! I’m not thin either, but like it or not, 350 lbs is an incredibly high weight! If she leaned a little too hard and the desk just snapped, then I could be more sympathetic, but I don’t think it would break unless she was putting all her weight on it.

            2. Justme, The OG*

              Do not shame OP #2 for their weight. Your third sentence does just that, and it is rude and uncalled for.

              1. EmilyAnn*

                I am very familiar with the concept of how ineffective weight shaming is. I was for most of my life and continued to get bigger. When my health became a burden on others I made better choices and shame wasn’t the driving factor. Self love was. However, at the end of the day, nobody is healthy at 350 lbs. Breaking a desk that causes a severe injury to another person because of the writer’s decision to not take care of their health should be a wake up call. The writers poor health choices have now affected someone else in a very direct way. I agree with Allison’s advice to a T. This person shouldn’t be externally hung out to dry for poor furniture, but it’s also time to take a hard look in the mirror and see what actions the writer can take to not be burden on others in the future due to their poor health.

                1. fposte*

                  This is inappropriate. We are not here to crowdsource the OP’s body and health, and advice on it unsolicited is rude. It also will not fix the situation the OP is facing, and it doesn’t solve the fact that a desk that is only equipped to hold 100 lbs. is insufficient for its task.

                2. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

                  I find it incredibly ironic that you’re talking about how you understand the ineffectiveness of weight shaming and then doing it anyway.

                  The OP’s health is not relevant to this discussion. People have weights. Even if the OP woke up that morning and went HEY I’M GOING TO GET MY WEIGHT DOWN, they still weigh what they weigh.

                3. Justme, The OG*

                  The desk would have broken if someone smaller had leaned on it. The OP’s weight is not germane to the discussion. Leave it alone.

                5. Princess Loopy*

                  This comment, despite professing to understand how ineffective weight shaming is, is full of weight shaming.

                  If the desk won’t support 100 pounds, then NO ONE, “healthy” or not, in my office could have leaned on the desk. And I see people leaning on desks all the time. It’s a normal thing to do.

                  It was a freak accident and, according to the specs given, could have happened to just about anybody.

                6. Seriously?*

                  Your advice is mean and unhelpful. You do not know anything about the letter writer’s health. Leave that between them and their doctor. This was a freak accident with a flimsy piece of furniture.

                8. tusky*

                  Weight does not equal health. Health does not equal worth. EmilyAnn, I am sorry that you ever felt you were a burden on others because of your health; nobody should have to feel this way. We all exist as bodies in varying states of health (which can be measured in myriad ways) and no one is a ‘burden’ just for existing.

                10. RUKiddingMe*

                  You are assuming a lot about the OP’s health choices, or as I read between the lines, her choice to …eat, at all apparently. If you truly knew much about weight you would know for a fact that it isn’t always (or according to ongoing research necessarily ever really) about ‘choice’ either health or eating/food choices. There are myriad reasons a person could be 350 pounds and ‘health choices’ is just one of many, many, many reasons. Oh and btw, you are body shaming. Shame on you.

              2. Confused*

                350 lbs is a high weight for an adult human being. 100 lbs is a low weight for an adult human being. Those are just facts, and people keep stating the second one repeatedly in this thread. I haven’t called OP any names or insults, or told them to change their body in any way.

              3. Confused*

                350 lbs is a high weight for a human being. 100 lbs is a low weight for a human being. It is only shaming if you believe that is it shameful to have a high weight.

            3. yup*

              Glad I am not the only one who saw it this way! The facilities manager handled this horribly, but I’m appalled at the treatment of the injured coworker on this thread and this idea that the OP bears no responsibility here.

              Yes, the desk should be able to support more than 100 pounds, but how much weight would be enough?! 300, 500, 1,000? There is no limit to how much people weigh these days and the desk companies cannot cater to each and every body type in case someone might lean on a desk, which is not what a desk is intended for!

              1. Tardigrade*

                Yet I think people can express sympathy for an injured person and still not continue bringing up OP’s weight.

              2. Princess Loopy*

                Have you ever leaned on a desk? (I have.) Do you weigh over 100 pounds? (I do.) Both of us would have broken the desk.

                While being leaned on is not a stated function of desk, it’s something that happens ALL THE TIME, to the point where it’s not an unreasonable expectation that a person could put their partially-supported body weight on a piece of office furniture. Everyone who is suggesting that the OP is to blame for an accident that didn’t have much to do with how much they weighed (the desk only supports 100 pounds!) is fat shaming.

                What happened was truly horrible for the coworker. Accidents are horrible sometimes. While it feels good to have someone or something to blame, sometimes shit really does just happen.

                1. Anion*

                  Yes, leaning on a desk is something that happens ALL THE TIME, so do you really think it’s never happened in LW’s office? Or do you think it has, and nobody else there broke a desk when they leaned on it because the desks can actually handle a bit more than 100lbs.?

              3. tusky*

                “There is no limit to how much people weigh these days…and companies cannot cater to each every body type” [citation needed]. This is a slippery slope fallacy and not an excuse to avoid providing/maintaining facilities that accommodate a range of bodies. Most companies can (and do!) cater to people of different sizes (even if they do not always cater well to people of larger sizes).

              4. PersephoneUnderground*

                Really? Slippery slope on desk capacity? Oh no, they might have to make a desk sturdy enough to withstand normal use by most people which includes leaning! This is really thinly veiled fat shaming- please don’t be facetious. “There is no limit to how much people weigh these days and the desk companies cannot cater to each and every body type ” I mean really? Poor desk companies?

              5. Anion*

                Well, and are we really to believe that *no one* in this office has *ever* leaned on a desk until LW did it? Clearly the desks have been able to stand up just fine to normal use, and normal casual leaning, before. To say definitively that the desk would have broken even if someone weighing 110lbs. leaned on it is just ridiculous. The only way to know that for sure would be to ask if anyone else in that office has ever leaned or sat on a desk, which is ridiculous. Let’s not try to absolve the OP of responsibility by insisting that the desk would have broken if a bird landed on it.

                (And again, I doubt the facilities guy had the spec sheet in front of him, so taking “100 pounds” as gospel is a little ridiculous as well.)

                1. Totally Minnie*

                  Maybe this desk was old. Maybe a screw had fallen out. Maybe one of a thousand other things occurred and OP2 and their coworker were in a freak Murphy’s Law type scenario where all the less than ideal things lined up in a row and calamity ensued. There are a million reasons why this desk might have collapsed when others hadn’t, and they have nothing to do with the weight of the person who leaned on it.

                2. Princess Loopy*

                  You’re almost certainly right, that people have leaned on desks. Maybe even that desk. And the weight of the lean-er may have impacted the desk breaking.

                  But it’s also well and truly possible that a lighter person leaning on the desk in the same way, in the same spot, could have broken it. It could have been a flaw in the structure of the desk. It could have been a piece of furniture truly not up to the normal demands put on it.

                  I think it’s fundamentally unkind to suggest that the LW is at fault for what happened because of their weight, and that’s what I’m reacting to and trying to illustrate. It really could have happened to a thinner person. To suggest that the LW “take responsibility” for having what you consider a too-big body is cruel. And yes, I think they should be absolved of responsibility, not because a bird would have broken the desk, but because it was an accident.

                  Let’s not try to make the OP take total responsibility for an accident just because they weigh more than you think they should.

              6. RUKiddingMe*

                Someone with better math/engineering skills than me please chime in, but as I understand it if OP only leaned on the desk then she didn’t put all of her actual 350 pound weight on it.

                Ergo, it seems to me that someone could calculate the actual weight based on the pressure of leaning (or something like that?) to assess if she really did exceed the weight limit. I mean in reality how many times do any of us lean on an object and put our entire weight on it?

                As I said I have zero engineering skills and I don’t ‘do’ math unless I have to, so I might be totally off base her.

              1. Eye of Sauron*

                The OP might have been better off if she had. I’ve seen a lot of shoddy cube/desk construction/design where the pieces aren’t actually anchored to anything either, instead the natural weight of the pieces hold it in place. Leaning on it with the weight described could certainly cause ‘tippage’ and the desk to collapse. Whereas sitting would have distributed the weight.

            5. Jesmlet*

              I’m normally against piling on but I disagree so strongly with your comment that I have to. If the desk only supports 100 lbs then the vast majority of adults could’ve caused the same exact accident. OP’s weight is irrelevant. OP describes it as leaning, we should believe that it was leaning. If anyone is to blame, it’s the person who ordered the flimsy office furniture.

            6. Falling Diphthong*

              It is physically difficult to hop up and sit on a desk unless you are spry and easily can lift your entire weight on your arms–desks are taller than chairs. I don’t know why we have opened a sidethread to ignore the OP’s use of leaned and put in the physically unlikely sat–but it is very silly.

            7. Mb13*

              I completely agree. In what world should the co-worker forgive her if he doesn’t want to. She seriously injured him. It might have not been on purpose but she was neglectent about her wight. We all have to be aware of out bodies, especially if we can easily injure someone.

              1. RUKiddingMe*

                So there was an accident but because the coworker is 350 pounds (you are assuming she is ‘negligent’ you don’t know this) she doesn’t deserve to have the coworker accept her apology for the accident?

                I mean sure no one has to accept any apology. It’s not the law or anything, but most of us, if we are injured, even a broken femur (which I do know how serious that is) would accept an apology sincerely given for an injury unintended.

                Unless of course we see it as “all OP’s fault because…fat.”

        3. Katniss*

          I mean really you wouldn’t need to accept her apology because she’s not at fault. She didn’t do anything wrong.

          1. CityMouse*

            I mean though, in the moment, are you going to be okay with someone who hurt you eveb if they didn’t mean to?

            As a teenager, I used to volunteer at a camp for kids with mental disabilities. I once got punched hard in the face by a kid. It wasn’t the kid’s fault, he didn’t know what he was doing, but the pain and shock was still very real. That kind of pain causes an immediate anger response. I did what I was trained to do, and just immediately walked away and let another staff member handle it. If someone had chased me down and apologized right then, I probably would have been a “jerk” too. Pain is irrational. It clouds your brain out. Fight or flight is exaggerated.

            Coworker was hurt a lot worse, possibly in a life threatening manner. Asking someone to be forgiving and go “it wasn’t your fault” in that situation? Not rational.

            1. Tuxedo Cat*

              If the OP included the detail about weighing ~ 350 vs. 400 lbs in the apology or the coworker heard about that from someone else, he might have been less inclined to accept. It would feel like deflecting blame regardless of what the OP intended.

          2. EditorInChief*

            I guess I have a different set of boundaries. When I go to a colleague’s desk I ask if I can approach or if I can stand along side and look at their screen, or whatever. I don’t touch their desk or anything on it, and wouldn’t think of leaning on their workspace. I consider than a crossing of personal boundaries. Maybe because I live in Manhattan where personal space is at a premium I’m hyper aware of other people’s space.

            1. fposte*

              I’m like you, and I also wouldn’t pick up the stuff on people’s desks. But I still don’t think it’s unreasonable to lean on a desk, and it’s certainly not unreasonable to expect it to stay upright.

            2. Anonymeece*

              Eh, I’m pretty close with all my coworkers, so depending on how close she was to this one, it would be completely normal. I regularly go in and hang out in a coworker’s office, lean on her desk, pick up stress balls from her desk to fiddle with… and she does the same in mine. I don’t think we can extrapolate anything useful about whether or not OP was crossing any boundaries with the given context.

        4. Jesmlet*

          Is he obligated to accept the apology? Of course not. But at the end of the day it was clearly an accident that OP feels terrible about and the least he can do is acknowledge that.

          1. smoke tree*

            I think it’s understandable that soon after such an awful injury, most people might not be in a position to really consider the situation rationally. Sometimes it’s easier to put the blame on another person than the cold machinations of the universe.

            1. Not So NewReader*

              Yep, people will continue to be people. If I am laying on the floor saying, “some is wrong with my leg, something is wrong with my leg…” Probably the only sentences I would hear would be the sentences containing the word “ambulance”.

          2. Kate 2*

            Or the least he can do is spend 6 months or so recovering from a life-changing accident that he may never fully recover from, that may permanently disable him.

            1. fposte*

              Yeah, I don’t think it’s that crucial that he acknowledge it wasn’t intentional. It’s nice for the OP if he does, but he really does have bigger fish to fry right now.

        5. A.*

          Yes! This exactly. We had a nurse make a mistake that could have killed my mother and cause her great pain and discomfort. She apologized and we did not accept her apology either. We actually asked she not be allowed to treat my mother for the remaining of her stay int he hospital. We are not jerks for not accepting the nurse’s apology. Nor are we under any obligation to accept her apology. The nurse should just be happy we did not go after her formally. The OP’s coworker is under no obligation to accept the apology. And it doesn’t seem like anyone is coming after the OP to cover the costs of his medical bills. We don’t even know if the injured coworker has enough sick leave to cover his time off of work or if the company fully covered all his medical expenses. I understand erring on the side of the OP, but the commenters rush to villainize the coworker is strange.

          1. Natalie*

            This would almost certainly be a workers comp claim, so the company’s WC insurance covers his bills, lost wages, etc.

            1. A.*

              Yes but does workers comp cover grocery runs, child care issues arising from the injury? Even something as simple as who is now going to walk the dogs? I have so many responsibilities outside of work, if I ever was rendered immobile I would be freaking out. The last thing on my mind would be accepting an apology. Now if it happened to me, and the OP offers to have groceries deliveries, walk my dogs, or offers some other form of assistance during my recovery period, then I would be much more willing to accept an apology. But a sorry with no action behind it doesn’t do much for anyone.

            2. WillyNilly*

              I live in an apartment building built in the 1950s, before ADA. My door is not wide enough for a wheelchair, plus there are some tight turns in the apartment. I own it, and live in it with my spouse and 3 kids, so moving would not be a small undertaking. A broken femur would be… I mean I don’t honestly know what I would do. Every, seriously EVERY aspect of my life would necessate immediate change (what I eat as I am the family’s primary cook, what I wear, how & where I socialize, my sleeping and bathing routines, my hobbies and passions, my job, how labor is divided within my family, etc).
              No amount of worker’s comp could come near compensating the costs of a broken femur.

          2. Anna*

            But even in your example, it doesn’t have to be yes/no. You can accept an apology and still ask that this particular nurse not treat your mother. That’s not crazy. To me, accepting an apology isn’t a blank slate. I think the coworker will have to do a lot more work of keeping a grudge in this particular case than acknowledging this was an accident and forgiving the OP’s role in it. And that doesn’t have to be right away.

            1. A.*

              Yes I agree. He does not have to actively hold a grudge. But he is not a jerk for not accepting the apology when offered in the moment it was offered. This is not a knock on the OP. It is more an observation of the other commenters who are rushing to make the coworker a “jerk” or the bad guy in this situation.

            2. Kate 2*

              Who says he is keeping a grudge? And why on earth would you think not forgiving someone for causing you harm, accidentally or not, is “keeping a grudge”? I have people in my life who did immense harm to me. When I have to I interact with them civilly, but I have never forgiven them. I don’t think about them all the time, I’m not losing sleep over it, and I haven’t turned into Gollum! Where does this myth come from???

            1. A.*

              So what are the circumstances when it is ok to not accept an apology and the circumstances when it is not ok? Because the nurse and the OP both caused injuries while on the job. So how is it completely different?

              1. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

                It’s completely different because OP’s actions are within the band of reasonable workplace behaviors that should not cause such a severe injury (but can), whereas your mother’s nurse did something specific that was a mistake within the scope of her job as a highly-trained professional—likely related to the delivery of medical care and the nurse’s competence, not simply leaning against your mother’s furniture. That’s a pretty significant difference.

                2. A.*

                  Then the OP should not have apologized. If it was perfectly reasonable behavior and a freak accident, then there is no reason so apologize. But whatever the circumstance, the coworker is not a jerk for not accepting the apology.

                3. A.*

                  Thank you Kate 2. The nesting is off for some reason. They were both unintentional mistakes that caused harm. My point wasn’t to get bogged down in highly training professionals administering care vs. office jobs vs. office equipment. It was an example of why a person may not accept an apology after an unintentional mistake (whether caused by incompetency or freak accident) that causes significant harm to someone else.

                4. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

                  Are we seriously going to pretend all intentional mistakes are the same?

                  Op apologizing doesn’t prove or disprove fault. We’ve had many long discussions about the non-blame-related role that apologies play in human interactions.

        6. Solidus Pilcrow*

          Yeah, I’m amazed at the contrast in opinion between this letter and the bird phobia letter where the injured party didn’t accept the apology either. No on called the bird phobia coworker a jerk, but we’re calling this guy one.

          In other letters, the commenters extolled that the injured party does not need to accept an apology for being wronged/injured (the one where a letter writer blabbed that a coworker was in a mental hospital comes to mind), but we’re pillorying this guy. Why?

          1. A.*

            Right. And if it were the injured coworker to write in, everyone would be rushing to tell him he does not have to accept the apology until he is ready.

          2. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

            That was different, imo, because the apology was insincere and only delivered after being forced to do so. I think a heartfelt and good-faith apology, delivered in the moment (where I don’t expect the injured party to accept it) and post-treatment, merits a little bit of graciousness on the part of the injured coworker.

            1. Kate 2*

              But the coworker is really going to be in treatment for six months, and depending on the break and complications, may suffer the effects permanently.

            2. myswtghst*

              While I get where you’re coming from, unless I’ve missed something in the comments (which is entirely possible given how many there are!), I don’t think we have the context of the apology to judge if coworker is being a jerk. We don’t know if it was said in-the-moment as the coworker was being loaded into an ambulance, or if it was sent via text/email while coworker is in the hospital in recovery (and may not be responding to texts/emails from work), or if coworker was advised by someone (lawyer, union rep, family member) not to accept an apology from anyone for fear of it impacting a worker’s comp claim/lawsuit.

              I don’t think OP should spend time beating themself up for this – it was pretty clearly an unfortunate accident only made worse by the terrible shame&blame memo – but I also don’t think we need to paint the coworker as a “jerk” when we don’t know his circumstances, or the circumstances of the apology.

            3. Solidus Pilcrow*

              Eh, if someone breaks my leg, even by accident and through no negligence on their part, I think I would reserve the right to not have to accept their apology. My leg is still broken, I’ll still have months of rehab, I’ll have a large medical bill, I may have a limp/pain for the rest of my life. “Sorry” doesn’t fix any of that.

              Accepting the apology may give the coworker bonus points for being extra gracious, but I don’t think not accepting it should put them in the negative/make them a petty jerk, either.

            1. Anion*

              They did. And there was no indication at all that the bird guy’s apology was insincere and only grudgingly offered, either; he tried to apologize numerous times, if I recall correctly.

        7. Anion*

          Yes. Again, the coworker whose arm was broken by the bird-fearing guy was totally justified in not accepting his apologies, but this guy whose femur was snapped is some kind of jerk for not accepting the LW’s apology? How does that work? At least the bird-fearing guy readily acknowledged that he had a problem and that his problem caused the situation, and he was trying to do something about it, not just making excuses and trying to blame everyone else. And the broken-arm woman was insisting bird-guy get fired because of his phobia, whereas all this poor man has done is not accept an apology; he hasn’t been calling his manager and telling them OP must go if he’s going to come back to work. So it’s cool for her to be that vindictive and try to get people fired, and everyone supports her in that, but this guy is a villain, really?

          This is not the facility manager’s fault for assuming that a desk that holds a normal amount of weight would suffice (especially since all the other desks are and have been fine up until now). It’s not the desk manufacturer’s fault for assuming that a desk wouldn’t be asked to hold over 400 pounds, 350 of that at an angle so the pressure is heavily on one part of the desk rather than evenly distributed over the entire top. It’s not the co-worker’s fault for being upset that his life has been seriously impacted, possibly forever, by someone else’s choices, and it’s not the fault of the entire workplace for knowing what happened.

          I’m not saying it’s necessarily the OP’s fault for leaning, either–this was clearly an accident and she clearly had no idea the desk might break like that–but the excuses and whining and desperation to blame other people is not sitting well with me, and neither is her outrage that people have pointed out that desks are not designed to carry that much weight/that her very high weight is what made the desk break. (I also doubt the facilities manager was reading “100 pounds” off the desk’s spec sheet when he made that comment; it seems to me it was probably just a generalization.) I’m sorry, OP, I’m sure this was extremely embarrassing for you, and it probably still is, and I believe you feel awful about it. But blaming other people isn’t going to help, it’s not going to mitigate the facts, and it’s not going to absolve you of the need to take responsibility. Perhaps you can turn that embarrassment into a positive and make some changes in your life; honestly, if I was your injured co-worker, seeing you do that would make all the difference for me.

          1. Totally Minnie*

            The man with the bird-phobia physically pushed his coworker in front of a car. OP2 simply leaned against a nearby surface they assumed was sturdy. That’s the difference in my mind.

            And you know what, this incident is still fresh and the coworker is still in pain and dealing with the fallout, so if he’s not ready to accept an apology I think that’s completely understandable. I do hope that someday he arrives at a place where he’s able to say “I know you didn’t mean for this to happen.”

            And Anion, I would appreciate it if you would stop saying things like “her very high weight.” The OP knows how much they weigh. They don’t need people in the comments section bringing it up again and again.

          2. Gazebo Slayer*

            Unfortunately, there actually WERE a lot of victim-blaming comments on the bird letter, and a lot of crap about how it was “ableist” for Liz to be uncomfortable working with a man who had *pushed her in front of a car.*

            What this facilities guy did was cruel, but I can’t blame the coworker with the broken femur for not being in a place to manage OP2’s feelings, any more than I can blame Liz for being angry. (I think I said that if i were in her place I’d have not only done the same but also sought to press criminal charges. I’d also have been skeptical of the bird phobia as an explanation and suspected it was a BS cover for a deliberate violent attack, because I know that if something that awful happened to me i would assume the worst. Also, there are a lot more men who are violent toward women than men with such an extreme phobia of birds.)

        8. BananaPants*

          I can’t believe that so many are calling the coworker a jerk! A femur fracture can be life-threatening, and is at the very least painful and life-altering while it heals and the person rehabs from the injury. The coworker has to spend months on crutches or in a wheelchair, with corresponding impact to their personal/social life (especially challenging if they have any caregiving responsibilities at home). This is likely a worker’s comp situation, so the coworker may not even be able to select their own doctor to treat the injury.

          Like, if this happened to me today? My kid’s lacrosse team would have no coach for the season, I’d be unable to volunteer with Girl Scouts, we’d need to buy a large ramp just to get me in and out of our house, we’d have potentially 5 figures worth of medical bills, I’d only be getting 60% of my normal salary while on short term disability, and most significantly my husband would have to take unpaid FMLA or quit his job entirely to care for me and our children until I regained some mobility. I wouldn’t be accepting an apology right away either! I’d be keeping all of my options open re: possible legal action, and I just don’t think I’d be in a forgiving mood immediately after such a significant injury.

          The employer was wrong to use names when they published something about the accident, though. My employer does report on workplace injuries, but the person hurt and others present are NEVER named – often we know who it was anyways, but there’s at least a pretense of privacy.

          1. EditorInChief*

            Yes. This is exactly it. Workers comp is one thing, but who is going to take/pick up my kids from school, activities etc., help my elderly mom with her daily routine, walk my dog, etc. OP’s apology of ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ whatcha gonna do means nothing.

            1. fposte*

              I don’t think that’s fair–for one thing, we don’t know what she said in the apology but I bet that wasn’t it, and another, it seems like you’re deeming her apology insufficient while simultaneously saying an apology doesn’t matter.

              1. EditorInChief*

                Clumsy wording. I don’t think it’s insufficient, I think it’s meaningless because a couple of apologetic words from OP to make herself feel better isn’t going to pick up my kids from school or help out my mom.

                1. fposte*

                  And I think there you may be accurately capturing the feelings of broken femur guy. I’m genuinely curious, since I’m finding the apology thing interesting–do you think that means you wouldn’t accept an apology, or just that you don’t much care whether you get one or not because it doesn’t help?

                2. EditorInChief*

                  Sorry fposte, since I can’t nest a comment under your question below. I wouldn’t care whether I received one or not because it doesn’t help my situation, and I frankly wouldn’t care about making OP feel better. If it was me when I returned to work I would act normally, and if people want to discuss the situation I would say something like that’s all in the past, nothing more to discuss. I would be civil to OP, but if she tried to bring it up to me I would tell her I did not wish to ever discuss the topic with her again.

                4. fposte*

                  @Editor–it runs out of nesting at a certain point. I just reply under the last possible one and do the @ to identify who I’m talking to. And thanks for the answer–I think it’s a really challenging situation to negotiate for the victim and there are different ways to see it.

          2. A.*

            Editor- I completely agree. I’m not going to try to get you fired or be hostile to you at work. But I will not be interested in discussing or telling you I forgive you. Words really didn’t help me during my recovery so you can keep them.

      4. Pickaduck*

        Absolutely! Calling the injured party at jerk is very harsh. Not sure I could accept the apology right in the aftermath.

        1. Nox*

          A person is never obligated to accept an apology for physical or emotional trauma. Accident or not. I am highly displeased that the advice is advocating to victim blame the injured party by calling him a jerk. The man was seriously injured in an accident and the response should be edited to remove the name calling out of it.

          1. Boo Berry*

            This all around. I’m extremely grossed out right now by so many of the comments and from Alison herself trying to call out the injured coworker for not shrugging off a massive injury like this. All while he’s probably in traction and processing an injury that might have far reaching consequences for him after it heals.

            I feel mortified for the OP and I’m sure she’s feeling awful about everything and feels genuine remorse and is likely suffering in her own way from a company that was willing to throw her under the bus like they have and the fact stuff like this becomes part of Office lore very easily.

            But seriously, no one is obligated to accept an apology, especially when they’re in the thick of being in pain and being told what kind of physical therapy will be required for this kind of injury. It’s a long term and far reaching blow. I get his resistance. I’m shocked so many are so openly hostile towards someone like this. It does the victim or OP absolutely no good and it’s showing a very ugly side to this community.

            1. Eye of Sauron*

              Agreed!

              I get it, the OP is sympathetic. We all get that she didn’t intend to harm the coworker. But at the end of the day her actions contributed in a significant way to the injury. I feel like we’ve forgotten how to say “Yes I understand that you didn’t mean this, but that doesn’t lesson the impact on the other party and the role you played in it”.

              1. Autumnheart*

                Yes, and we’ve had letters where a person caused significant issues for a coworker even though their intent was not malicious. The guy whose bird phobia made him push his coworker into a car. The hypochondriac who would catastrophize about having certain illnesses that he didn’t actually have, alienating and stressing his coworkers who really did have those illnesses. The woman who triggered an investigation on a coworker so that she would have a reason to get out of an abusive relationship.

                All of those people were dealing with Stuff but they still caused significant damage to their coworkers. Yes, we should feel compassion for people dealing with Stuff, but they still bear all the responsibility for the damage they cause others as a result of their Stuff. The people who suffered as a result are not responsible for lightening the consequences for the responsible party. If one consequence is that your injured coworker considers you persona non grata and your reputation in the company suffers, well….you know….that may be a signal that you need to work harder on your Stuff. It doesn’t mean you’re a bad person who meant to cause harm, but you DID cause harm.

                1. Delphine*

                  I don’t think your examples are comparable to this situation. If a person who is injured by a desk that fell on them decides to punish you for it by damaging your reputation, they aren’t acting reasonably. But a person who is injured because you pushed them in front of a car is acting reasonably when they hold you somewhat responsible. One is an action no one could have predicted would result in an injury. The other an action that everyone knows can result in an injury.

            2. SoCalHR*

              But it was still an *accident* by OP, and not even a reckless accident (i.e. flagrantly goofing off and caused harm), so it is sad that the co-worker hasn’t been able to (yet?) see this. I guess “jerk” may be a little strong, but OP doesn’t really deserve the wrath for this incident, which they are getting from all sides.

            3. Glomarization, Esq.*

              The update still suggests that the co-worker would have an obligation to apologize if the injury weren’t so serious. I really disagree with that proposition. Whether the co-worker suffered an injured leg, a broken fingernail, or hurt feelings, they have no duty to forgive the person who injured them or accept their apology. That’s rough for the person who inflicted the injury unintentionally, but that’s how the cards fall sometimes.

            4. SoCalHR*

              Glomarization, Esq. – a “duty to forgive” is perhaps a bit extreme. But what a sad world we would live in if we don’t encourage forgiveness in general and at minimum when people harm us UNINTENTIONALLY. Forgiveness is better for BOTH parties.

            5. Glomarization, Esq.*

              Forgiveness and accepting apologies is great, but man I’m not gonna tell someone what they should feel in their heart, whether they should accept an apology, or what they should say to anyone. There are 7 billion different reasons in the world why someone might find it easier or harder to accept an apology, and sometimes a perceived very small injury like a broken fingernail is legit hard to get over.

      5. Typhon Worker Bee*

        Right, and when was the apology offered? While the coworker was writhing in pain on the ground, while they were in hospital all drugged up on painkillers, or when they were starting to feel better? These things matter…

    3. Glomarization, Esq.*

      Co-worker is under absolutely no obligation to accept an apology. Broken femur or broken fingernail, co-worker can handle their well-being in any way they see fit. I’m really, really not a fan of the initial advice and the agreement among much of the commentariat that the co-worker “must” make any movement at all towards the letter writer.

      I think if we had a letter that said, “My co-worker accidentally broke my shabby desk, and it ended up breaking my leg [or: my fingernail]. I’m very upset/saddened/shocked/in pain, and now the co-worker is upset that I won’t accept her apology,” would we call that letter-writer a “jerk” for not forgiving the co-worker?

      1. Eye of Sauron*

        Sadly I think we would.

        In my humble opinion, an apology should be given free and clear of any expectation of acceptance. If there is a conditional upon acceptance apology, then it’s probably only offered to make the the apologizer feel better and has little to do with the apologizee.

        The only true apology is one with no expectation of acceptance.

        1. serenity*

          This is a very un-nuanced view of the role apologies play, especially in a work setting, and it feels pedantic and easy to say from the comfort of one’s keyboard.

          If an apology is felt to be insincere, I can see why someone would be unwilling to accept it. But if an innocent accident is being interpreted as deliberate or malicious, and the response is to shun an apology, what is your reasoning for that? Is that a healthy way for colleagues who will continue to work together to interact?

          If you sincerely apologized to someone, and they chose not to accept it for any numbers of reasons, I really doubt you would express the thoughts you wrote here.

          1. Eye of Sauron*

            Actually, it has happened to me. And I had to admit to myself there are just some things that good intentions can’t fix. Sure it would have made me feel better if they had accepted. But the lack of acceptance didn’t mean I was any less sorry.

            At that point I knew that I was sincere in my apology and that was the best I could do.

            1. Glomarization, Esq.*

              I’ve been (have put myself) in a similar situation. I did something hurtfully bone-headed, I apologized, and — wonder of wonders — the person I hurt didn’t accept my apology.

              Doesn’t make that person a jerk. I was the jerk who hurt them. You live enough years on this planet, you end up not getting apology-closure on everything that happens between you and other people. It just happens.

        2. Anion*

          And despite the assumptions being made here, we have no evidence that the apology actually was a plain, sincere, “I’m sorry I did that.” Given the OP’s desire to blame other people for the accident and anger about an extra fifty pounds being added to her weight in a casual comment, I get a very “I’m sorry but the facilities guy and the desk manufacturers are to blame and also I don’t weigh that much, how dare you say I weigh 400 pounds when actually it’s more like 350, so my weight can’t possibly be the reason,” feeling, and if that was the apology I was offered I wouldn’t be accepting it, either.

          The OP can’t even accept blame here, anonymously, without making excuses and trying to deflect and hold others responsible–I’m surprised she’s not blaming the injured co-worker for not getting out of the way fast enough, frankly. So why are people so sure her apology in real life was heartfelt and sincere?

            1. Anion*

              The “problem?” What “problem” is that?

              Her actions directly caused the co-worker’s broken leg. If she had not “leaned on” the desk, it would not have broken, and the co-worker’s leg would not be broken, either. Yes, I believe she has blame to accept, since the accident is the direct result of her actions. It is not a “problem” that I view it that way; in fact, the LW herself clearly thinks there is blame to be had here, she just thinks that blame should belong to a bunch of other people who failed to plan for the idea that someone who weighs 350 pounds might one day want to lean on a desk, and not with the 350-pound person who did the leaning. That’s not taking responsibility, it’s trying to shift blame onto other people, and it is why I doubt the sincerity of her apology.

              That doesn’t mean I think she did it on purpose, and it doesn’t mean I think it was malicious or that she intended to harm anyone. It doesn’t mean I don’t believe she feels awful about it (I do, and have said so more than once). But the fact that it was an accident doesn’t absolve her of blame, any more than I would be absolved of blame if I swerved to avoid a child in the road and ended up smashing someone’s fence. Did I do it on purpose? No. Did I deliberately try to break their fence? No. Even the fact that I swerved for a good reason, and it would have been worse if I hadn’t, still does not mean I am not to blame for smashing the fence. It may mitigate it somewhat, but I am still responsible for it, because I did it.

          2. myswtghst*

            You’re making a lot of assumptions yourself. As far as we know, the OP is trying to give Alison (& us) a full picture of everything they’re dealing with – an unfortunate accident, that based on the information provided by facilities could have happened to just about any average-sized adult, which has now been exacerbated by an incredibly inappropriate blame&shame memo that included inaccurate information. I think it’s a bit of a reach to automatically assume OP’s apology to their coworker included any (or all) of the same content, especially since OP is writing to Alison after the apology was made.

            I am a fat person. As long as I have been a fat person, I have been made to feel as if I need to legitimize myself and my opinions by making it clear that I’m a good fat person, a healthy fat person, that I’m not really that fat, and so on. As a result, it doesn’t surprise me in the least that when approaching a mostly anonymous/unknown audience, OP felt the need to be really clear that they don’t actually weigh 400 lbs, and that they didn’t actually sit on the desk, because it’s pretty easy to anticipate all the comments that will tell you that it’s your fault regardless because you’re fat.

            We honestly don’t know enough about the apology or the “refusal to accept the apology” to lay judgment on OP or the coworker. I’m a fan of giving the benefit of the doubt on both sides – that OP’s apology was sincere but wasn’t something coworker was willing or able to accept just yet for whatever reason – but I don’t think we even need to go that far to provide useful advice. (And telling fat people that we’re fat is never useful advice, nor is it new information to us, for the record.)

            1. Anion*

              I agree that we don’t know enough about the apology to lay judgment; that’s exactly my point. People here are saying with absolute certainty that the apology was sincere and heartfelt, and I’m simply saying that based on what I see from the LW here, I don’t agree with that assumption. And even if I was seeing something different, we *still* don’t know that it was sincere and heartfelt.

              The LW’s desire to blame others is a problem for me. I seriously, seriously doubt the facilities manager was reading off a spec sheet when he made his comment about the desk being rated to hold 100 pounds–it sounds like a general comment tossed out in the aftermath of a terrible situation to me–so I don’t get why people are taking that as gospel, especially since for that to be the case it would have to mean that no one else in that office has ever leaned on one of the desks. What’s more likely: that the facilities mgr. spoke in generalities, or that no one has ever leaned on a desk in that office before? Seriously think about that for a second. The LW is grabbing that sentence like a lifeline that absolves her of responsibility, and I don’t buy it, and I think it says something about her. (And quite frankly, the difference between 350 and 400 pounds is negligible. 350 pounds is still–and I’m trying to say this in as non-shaming a way as possible, because I am not trying to “shame” anyone–dangerously obese, unless the LW is also over six feet tall. Quibbling about 50 pounds when one’s weight has broken both a desk and a co-worker’s leg looks to me like trying to deny responsibility or pretend it wasn’t the LW’s fault: oh, it was the faulty desk, I’m not really so big that I broke it, it would have collapsed if a mouse scampered across it.)

              I’m sorry you’ve been made to feel that you are somehow not a legitimate person because you are fat. That’s awful and it must feel awful. I don’t care if you’re “a good fat person,” (I don’t really get the difference between a “good fat person” and a “bad fat person,” though; people are either good people or bad people, aren’t they?) and exactly how fat you may be doesn’t matter to me. But it also doesn’t change my view of the OP’s attempts to claim that 50 pounds is what makes all the difference, and–again–the fact that she is doing so is (in my opinion, and in fact in your own words) an attempt to absolve herself of responsibility. This *is* her fault. That doesn’t mean she meant to do it or that she’s a bad person, but if *I* leaned my 110 pounds on a desk and it broke and broke my co-worker’s leg, it would be *my* fault that the desk broke, period. She leaned on the desk. She broke the desk. That is her fault. It was an accident, yes, but it was an accident that *was her fault.* I can accept that it would be my fault. She cannot accept that this was her fault. That is why I am not sure her apology was sincere, and that is why I have my doubts about her.

              1. myswtghst*

                If we don’t know enough about the apology, why assume the letter writer was insincere? What purpose does it serve, other than to make the letter writer feel bad? You could just as easily encourage the letter writer to re-examine how and when they apologized to see if that might impact the coworker’s response, and still stick with Alison’s request that we be kind to letter writers here.

                I guess I’m just confused, because I am not reading the letter at all the way you are. I don’t see a desire to blame others, I see a desire to understand how and why this happened, and an OP who is truly distraught about the situation. I see something that was genuinely an accident, because OP did not intentionally hurt the coworker, and unless the office uses children’s desks from IKEA and the OP has never once leaned on a desk in the office before, they did not do anything that a rational person would qualify as reckless endangerment – they did something most of us do several times a day without thinking much about it.

                While I appreciate what you’re trying to do, I’m not interested in your apologies. My statements about how fat people are made to feel they need to legitimize themselves was not, in any way, about how *you* interact with fat people. It was about how society in general treats us, and as a result, why I think the OP’s justifications are perfectly understandable and don’t point to a desire to blame others, but to a desire to show us they aren’t a reckless terrible person who intentionally endangered a coworker. How *you* feel about fat people isn’t relevant here, but how society at large treats us is, because it shapes how we respond to the world. When you’re made to constantly defend yourself, it shouldn’t come as a surprise that you might sound a little defensive sometimes.

                1. Blue*

                  I like your comments, myswtghst. Of course OP shouldn’t have to be defensive about her weight, and *of course she is*.

      2. Gorgo*

        Accepting an apology isn’t the same as absolving someone of fault! It can be as simple as absolving someone of intention.

        “I’m so sorry!”

        “I know you didn’t mean to hurt me.”

        That’s accepting an apology. It doesn’t mean apologizer isn’t responsible, or even that injured party isn’t angry.

      3. Delphine*

        I think we’d tell the letter writer that they are under no obligation to accept someone’s apology, but it would be the right move considering the coworker did not break the desk on purpose, did not know the desk would break, and did not know someone’s leg would break when she did something very normal–leaned a bit on a desk.

        1. fposte*

          I think that’s where I’d land. Now I can see a situation where the act of making the apology was really part of a demand for recognition and absolution (the woman whose anxiety led her to chase a co-worker down in her home comes to mind), in which case I can understand stopping all communication, period. But I don’t think this is like that, and I don’t see much to be gained here from not accepting the apology. In fact, if you stay really tweaked about it, there’s a risk of sympathy turning against you, especially if there are other desk collapses that make it clear that it’s just something these desks do.

          1. Blue*

            I mean, I think a lot of this is down to the fact that people have very different ideas about what an apology is, what you expect from an apology and what accepting or not accepting an apology means. For me personally, it wouldn’t even occur to me to be angry at OP. It doesn’t have anything to do with how severe the injury was or what impact it had on my life – she didn’t intend any harm and obviously feels awful. To me, an apology in that scenario literally just means ”Oh no, my actions have caused you harm! I didn’t want that to happen, I acknowledge that it has, and I care about that.” And accepting it means. ”I realise that you didn’t intend to cause me harm.” That’s it. Obviously for a lot of people it’s a lot more complex.

  6. TCO*

    I once participated in an icebreaker that was “tell us about your childhood pet.” It devolved into a lot of sad stories about those pets passing away. Fortunately our group managed to find the dark humor in the situation and the leader swore off that particular icebreaker for good once he realized how easily it could go off the rails.

      1. Mookie*

        Yeah, I suppose if you squint, this could be a bonding exercise, in that almost everyone who lives long enough is eventually an orphan. Is that a factoid likely to bring co-workers closer together, though?

        I’ve had a few decent work-relevant icebreakers. The one nearest to the forefront of my mind was describing a colleague or boss we admired, envied, and would like to emulate. It was pretty illuminating, because we learned (a) what our peers were looking for in a collaborator and (b) what kind of person they wanted to be but theretofore lacked the ability to achieve, so we would help each other along in the process. I almost think it’s less about the subject of the ice-breaker and more about the mediators leading the discussion, highlighting what matters and what functional knowledge we can take away from the meeting. This is particularly useful for departments / bureaus / shifts all hired on at the same time, but done right it’s a pretty diplomatic and collegial way of introducing a few new faces, as well, by taking the pressure and spotlight off them and giving everyone a chance to introduce themselves on equal standing.

      2. Jessen*

        I have a very dark sense of humor – I would be tempted to start counting on my fingers how many pets died when I was a kid. Of course, we had hamsters, but no need to mention that up front…

        Ok, I wouldn’t actually do that, but still.

        1. Eye of Sauron*

          haha… mine would be something like. “I raised gerbils… let me tell you about Teddy the First…long time later… And then we got Teddy the Thirteenth”

            1. Tongue Cluckin' Grammarian*

              We had a succession of cockatiels named “Larry” (regardless of sex).

      3. Clorinda*

        That’s absolutely inevitable. When you ask a group of people in their 20s and 30s about childhood pets, almost all the pets are bound to be dead, except maybe the parrots and elephants. It’s like asking a roomful of 50-somethings about their grandparents.

    2. Lance*

      To his credit, at least that one could reasonably be construed as positive. Scars are… anything but.

    4. Emi.*

      I once had to hear that a classmate had “made out with a hamster,” though. Some people just shouldn’t be allowed in icebreakers of any type.

        1. Emi.*

          He was kissing it on the face and it opened its mouth and licked his tongue.

          We were … not surprised that he didn’t really know what making out entails.

  7. phira*

    OP3: I also have colitis! It’s the woooooooorst, and I am so sorry you’re dealing with it. It’s also so stressful to deal with and explain at new jobs. I think Alison’s advice is good, and it’s similar to how I’ve handled it (although I’ve never begun a new job while flaring). Definitely emphasize that it is worse in the morning, and that it can make it impossible to leave the house because you need to be near a bathroom. I’ve had some bosses and coworkers not really understand that colitis is not just having bad symptoms *when* you go to the bathroom, but having to constantly return to the bathroom over and over, and often unpredictably, which can be really disruptive when it comes to being productive.

    I hope you can find a new treatment that works for you!

    1. Ifeelyourpain*

      I once had a flare up when I was unemployed and interviewing and it was really difficult. I remember feeling really sick right before a big interview once and I was so embarrassed. It was mostly under control by the time I got a job (not that one) but I was still so freaked out I would have an episode when someone was training me. I did not want to be the person disappearing to the bathroom for a long long time when people would most notice it. The best thing I can offer is to make sure you are doing everything you can be to bring your stress levels down. I’ve found stress has a huge effect on my colitis and going through a flair up is a cycle that feeds itself making yourself more and more stressed out and more and more sick – then starting a new job is stressful in itself. So be sure to take extra care of yourself however you can. And – you have probably heard this somewhere before – but the squatty potty was a huge help for me. There are even some similar things you can find on Amazon you can travel with that you could bring to work. Easy to carry in the bathroom if you are a girl with a purse – no idea how a dude would do it. But it really made my ‘episodes’ much faster and less painful and helped me cope at work.

    2. SineNomine*

      Honestly, I am impressed you guys are able to work at all during a flare. I’ve been unemployed for a long time from a severe case of UC where I felt I couldn’t leave the house almost ever. 15+ times a day, untreated by medication. I can’t imagine how stressful that would be going in to work, much less a new job…

  8. LouiseM*

    OP#2, I am so sorry! That’s absurd that your coworker won’t accept your apology. I would be mortified too, but I think Allison’s advice to act as normally as possible is the right way to go.

    That said…honestly, I don’t really buy that the desk could only support 100lbs. Even if the weight limit is 100lbs, they’re talking about the amount of computer equipment that can be on the desk all the time–the engineers know that there will sometimes be other stressors acting on the furniture. My theory? The piece was old or otherwise defective and really should have been replaced sooner, and so the facilities manager was doing a CYA by deflecting the blame onto you. It’s really crappy, but happens all the time. So sorry, I hope you feel better about this soon.

    1. Observer*

      I was thinking much the same thing. It’s true that a lot of computers are not that heave anymore, but add a printer and a few manuals and you’ve got quite a bit of weight right there. And, people leaning on desks is sooo normal that any decent desk meant to be used should be able to handle that. Even the cheap particle board junk.

      1. Mary*

        Yes I would blame the desk as being defective. Even a light weight person leaning over a desk with both hands on it to look for something behind it would exert 100 lb of pressure on the desk easily. I had an issue in my work where a colleague sat on a chair. The chair collapsed under her causing her to damage her neck and shoulder (she grabbed for the table on the way down). Now she was by far the lightest person in the department at the time. But the chairs were the cheapest they could get at the time and were very poor quality. I threw them all out and purchased proper chairs. If I or my other two colleagues at the time had sat in that chair and broken it we would have blamed our weight, but the root cause was our boss was a cheap skate and went for cheap products.

        1. Irene Adler*

          Or perhaps the assembly of the desk was not done correctly. AND the desk wasn’t the best quality either.

  9. Mr Grinch*

    #2 If a desk breaks when somebody just leans on it, it’s a crappy desk. You don’t need to be embarrassed that your office has bad furniture.

    1. High Score*

      No kidding! I often SIT my huge self ON desks bc I have coworkers I need info from and unless I sit on their desks and wait, using my legs to lock them in their cube, they won’t fork it over. That’s right, I have to literally trap rude coworkers in so that they will give the information they’re being paid to dispense that will take less than 5 minutes of their time. Good thing we have sturdy desks and cube walls or nothing would get done.
      Yes, I try email first, then calls, then a nice visit and then I have to resort to desk sitting.

        1. Observer*

          I’m with fposte. It doesn’t matter that they should be giving you the information. That’s really out of line and totally not an appropriate way to handle the situation.

      2. Environmental Gone Public Health Gone Back Environmental*

        ……I can’t say I’d opt for *refusing to let someone leave their cube* over, I don’t know, involving their manager if it’s really this big of an issue?

        You have no idea how physically blocking someone in could affect that person. I get very, very, very anxious and phobic if someone does that to me because of some past life traumas. If someone forcibly does that for anything more than a couple minutes, I would be close to a panic attack, *especially* if they’re coming off aggressively.

        1. Observer*

          You what? I don’t have the kind of baggage, thank G-d. But I’d STILL freak out if someone ever did that to me.

            1. Jules the Third*

              I think it’s a nesting error, and the ‘You what?” is to High Score.

              Who should not be blocking people’s exits. Really, there are grown-up ways to deal with that.

            2. Observer*

              No, it’s a typo. I meant to write “You know what? It’t doesn’t matter.” Sorry about that!

              The point being that even without your background, this would be pretty upsetting to a lot of people and with good reason!

              1. Environmental Gone Public Health Gone Back Environmental*

                Ahh, that makes more sense. I had figured I had a typo and then couldn’t find it! I only included my background because I also don’t like people standing too close to me, and it seems to confuse people that I’ll (unobtrusively) back away a bit until I explain I have a pretty big personal bubble. (Not that anyone should need to explain anything like that, but I do find that sometimes I need to.)

        2. Annastasia von Beaverhausen*

          My office implemented an entire new safety procedure including signalling lights and emergency training with an OHAS officer after I was blocked in my office by someone in similar circumstances, and she was tiny.

          Electing to use your girth to trap someone in their cube because they aren’t as responsive to your requests as you’d like them to be seems like a really bad idea.

        3. Anion*

          Yes, me too. If you’ve ever been held like that in a genuinely scary, genuinely thought-you-might-die situation, even the faintest whiff of it happening again can be enough. No one should be exposed to that sort of situation at work.

      3. Namelesscommentator*

        Please don’t sit on coworkers’ desks and trap them with your body.

        That’s … incredibly disturbing. Your coworkers are not the rude ones here.

      4. dawbs*

        stop.
        It’s not that I don’t understand the reason behind what you’re doing. It’s not that I don’t get it. I am good at putting myself in people’s path myself. But there’s a difference between putting yousrelf in people’s paths and trapping them, and it sounds like you’re doing the latter and that’s really not OK to do to people.

      5. Anion*

        If you did that to me, I would start screaming. Then hitting. Then using weapons. Then filing outraged complaints with HR and anyone else who would listen. I freak out if I feel trapped, and I don’t care if it’s at work or not; you do not get to physically trap me at my desk like that.

        1. Environmental Gone Public Health Gone Back Environmental*

          In college, there was a young guy who thought it was funny to pick up small people (99% of the time, women) and thought it would be funny to randomly run up behind me and attempt to pick me up. I kinda felt bad after giving him a bloody nose/sore nether regions in a state of pure panic of someone suddenly in my personal space, touching me, and preventing me from getting away. But hey, he never once did that again to anyone- for which I had a couple girls come up and thank me!

      6. Legal Beagle*

        Yeah, don’t do that. It’s creepy and threatening. You are physically intimidating a coworker and restricting their freedom of movement. Does that actually sound ok to you?

  10. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

    OP#4, as Alison notes, ask her frankly to stop emailing you job notices. It sounds like you’re trying to get her to pick up on hints/cues—that approach let’s her pretend she’s not picking them up. Be direct; it’s not rude, and it makes it harder for her to keep engaging in unwanted behavior without looking like a jerk.

    1. LKW*

      Agreed. I love the directness of the script where you note your request, her refusal to stop and then “What’s up with that?” because it puts a big old spotlight on her. I am not overly confrontational but I do like seeing people squirm when it’s justified.

      Sometimes making people uncomfortable is a great way to drive home a point; people continue being crappy until that spotlight is on them. She will get defensive and she may get mad. That’s on her. Not you. You made a request. She ignored it. You are asking her why she ignored it and now she has to justify it or just stop. She crossed the line because you didn’t make it uncomfortable to do so – now you’re making it uncomfortable for her to continue crossing the line. She won’t cross the line. She’ll also know not to cross lines you set.

    2. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      I also wonder if the OP can just delete the emails without responding? And if the coworker brings it up, she can say something like “Oh I’ve been deleting those since I’m not looking for a new job. Thanks for your efforts but you really don’t need to spend time looking at jobs on behalf, I’m perfectly happy here!”

      1. Yorick*

        That sounds like what she’s been doing so far. Now she needs to more directly tell her to stop.

        1. #4 OP*

          I am definitely looking forward to standing up for myself a little bit and making her realize how uncomfortable she’s making me. Part of my issue is that I’m used to being a student and having to take a lot of flak without complaining, so I think it’ll be a great opportunity for me to learn to be an equal employee and coworker.

          1. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

            The good news it that you don’t really have to tell her she’s upsetting you or anything else. Just tell her to stop. It can be delivered cheerily (but directly) the first time, and then if she keeps doing it, you can allow a little annoyance into your voice (along with a puzzled, “why would you do that?” look). Making people explain their discomfiting behavior can be really effective for getting them to stop.

          2. LiveAndLetDie*

            I would be extremely clear with her next time it happens. Something like “I have asked you before to stop sending me these and you have ignored me. I am asking you one last time to stop.” If she doesn’t stop, I would take it to your boss and lay it all out, because it sounds like she’s targeting you, and if she doesn’t stop when you’ve asked repeatedly (and firmly) then it’s harassment. You should be able to do your job without this nuisance and your boss should also want this for you!

      2. AnonAndOn*

        I feel that being direct from the jump is the best way to approach this. Deleting the e-mails and waiting to tell her to stop is not as direct as telling her to stop sending them.

        1. Seriously?*

          True, but if she keeps sending them after being told directly to stop it will be the only option left.

  11. EMW*

    I typically don’t like icebreakers, but I do like two truths and a lie. You mention three things about yourself, one of which is false. People try to guess which one is false before you reveal the answer. I’ve actually learned really interesting things about colleagues, and the added bonus that the person has a lot of control over the information that they share.

    1. RestlessRenegade*

      I think that would be a great ice-breaker. You’d get to learn about your colleagues but get to choose what to tell them.

      I kind of wish someone would pull the “explain your scars” ice-breaker on me. I have exactly one visible scar, and I guarantee my explanation would make the organizer think twice about doing that again. (“Bondage.”)

    2. All Hail Queen Sally*

      OMG–I went through this same ice breaker once in a college class and one girl stated that she was a convicted felon. Of course, we all knew that was the lie. Nope. Turned out to be one of her truths!

    4. babblemouth*

      I came here to mention this one. It allows people to filter exactly what kind of information they’re happy to share about themselves, and it gives people a chance to be a bit funny and creative in their lies. The exercise takes just 5 minutes (especially if you get people to do it in small groups).

    6. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I was going to mention this one too.

      Though I will say it is helpful if you give folks notice to prepare for it since it can be difficult to think of things on the spot.

    7. Susan K*

      Sorry, but I hate two truths and a lie. I feel like there’s so much pressure to come up with “good” ones so it’s hard to guess the lie. I would much rather answer a simple, straightforward question. I think the simpler the question, the more likely people are to actually listen to the responses rather than get distracted by thinking about what they’re going to say.

    8. Alice*

      Another good one – telling a story or fact related to your name. What does it mean, who chose it for you, what your favorite nickname is, etc. People usually listen because it helps them learn the names of the other people in the group!

      2. Lefty*

        I’m saving this one for future use! Like you said, it might help us learn others’ names- and it feels like it could be as personal or impersonal as the person prefers! “My mother read it in a book and liked it.” “I’m the 6th grandchild to carry his name.” “Everyone tends to mispronounce it as ________ instead, it’s really ________!”

        1. Penny Lane*

          A dozen “my mother really liked it” stories aren’t telling though. And it tells you nothing about the person. Of course their parents liked the name.

          1. Jotpe*

            But it’s harmless. The worst case scenario is the ice breaker takes 2 minutes, it’s slightly dull, no one shares anything uncomfortable, and the training can go on. That’s not too bad.

      3. Alex the Alchemist*

        We did this one at my old job and it was really cool because some people had awesome stories related to their name, while others didn’t know too much about their name and looked up their name meanings for the first time.

      4. Jessen*

        The only thing that comes to mind is it might be an issue for people who aren’t going by their birth name and don’t want to mention that? I have a friend who’s a passing trans lady and she says name-based stuff can be really hard because she doesn’t want to out herself.

        1. Jotpe*

          I had a TA in college who did this on the first day and I always thought it was an ok one. It can be a good opportunity for students to share important information (eg pronunciation), and it’s fairly easy for people to choose their limits:
          “I’m on the roll as Thihan but I prefer to be called Catherine”
          “My name is Catherine and I chose it for myself when my family came to Canada”
          “My name is Catherine and I like that that’s also a character in my favorite book”
          “My name is Catherine, and I really hate when people shorten it to Cathy or Katie”
          “My name is Catherine with a C”
          “My name is Catherine and I don’t really have a story”

          The trick is to really stress that people don’t have to share anything they don’t want to, and the leader can’t go pressing on answers like “I dunno”.

          1. Fiennes*

            Exactly. “My name is Roxanne and I HATE the song “Roxanne,’” etc. Or someone who has chosen a new name for themselves can—if so inclined—explain why, or offer up some other tidbit like, “Every barista seems to think ‘Darla’ is actually ‘Carla,’” etc.

        2. Natalie*

          There’s nothing in the prompt demanding the anecdote be about their legal name or birth name though? You can share the meaning of your name without disclosing that you’re the one that picked it out.

          1. Jessen*

            Fair enough – I was seeing the things like “who picked it out” being something that would be expected to provide an answer.

      5. Thing1*

        Oh, that one does sound good! What I usually use on the first day of class with my students (college-aged) is to share something related to the class (what’s your favorite thing about plants?) and then one pop-culture thing they’re into at the moment. Movie, TV show, book, music, video game, whatever. It works pretty well, because it’s a little more focused than just “a fun fact”, but broad enough that pretty much everyone can come up with something they’re ok with sharing, and you get a little bit of personality without having to share something uncomfortable. Especially since most people have multiple things they could answer–if someone didn’t want to say that they watched anime, for example, they probably have another movie/book/band that they could mention instead.

      6. Kyrielle*

        Annnnd…I would resort to saying “I don’t know” (or looking up its meaning and mentioning that, but I truly don’t know if it has one or what that meaning is). My name is common, familiar, and has no nickname forms – and how it was chosen involves some references to sad family history, which I *really* would not wish to discuss with coworkers.

        1. Not a Mere Device*

          “Lots of people misspell it” or “It’s Michele with one L” aren’t terribly intereesting, but they’ll do as facts about a name, if you don’t want to be personal. Or “there were three other Jennies in my kindergarten class,” if the name is one of the really common ones. “It doesn’t mean anything, my parents just liked the way it sounded” would work here. (Most names that have been around a while “mean something” in the sense that they could be translated from another language, but most people who name a boy Mark aren’t thinking of Mars.)

      7. nym*

        Except… I don’t know where my name came from. My parents haven’t ever said, just deflect the question. It’s not a family name, and it’s not from our ethnic heritage either, and it’s a very unusual name.

        I choose to believe it’s a dirty story they’re embarrassed to tell. More likely, they opened a baby name book to a random page, closed their eyes, and put a finger down.

    9. Glomarization, Esq.*

      This is a really, really fun and flexible icebreaker that I’ve used several times when I lead a group. If people need a prompt, I suggest “give us two jobs that you have held, and one that you never did.”

      The worst icebreaker I ever experienced was “tell us something about an ancestor you really admire, like your great-grandmother who was a suffragette.” It quickly went from “my granddad who was president of his college” to “my Mayflower ancestor who did x and y.” Then it came to a screeching halt with, “Well, I was adopted, so I don’t know any of my ancestors, so I’m going to have to ask to decline to answer.”

      1. Penny Lane*

        Oh good lord. Most people would understand they didn’t need to be so pedantically literal. They could have used a relative in their adopted family.

        1. Observer*

          Sure. But if this was something that people didn’t have any warning about, there could be a lot of reasons why that person might not have been able to come up with something in the moment. For instance, it’s not uncommon for adoptees to have issues around the fact of their adoption, the circumstances of their adoption, or the lack of knowledge about their bio family.

          Obviously that’s not true of all adoptees, but it’s common enough that I can’t say I’m shocked by this response.

        2. Glomarization, Esq.*

          Well, I mean, both my parents are immigrants to the U.S., so as a first-generation American I also come from a family with no Mayflower ancestors, no suffragettes, no WWII heroes, or anything similar. The exercise ended up being a contest as to whose family had the “best” American ancestors. I ended up stuttering something like, “My family is dirt farmers on one side and, uh, dirt farmers on the other, and even after they immigrated to the States they never got really involved with politics, so, uh, who’s next in line here?” I’ll take my acquaintance at her word that the question was really disconcerting for her. It’s not an icebreaker if you’re drilling into people’s history on a really personal level.

          1. YuliaC*

            Yeah. It can also be super disconcerting when after someone talking about Mayflower ancestors, the next person has to say that her ancestors were brought here on another ship in chains…

          1. KarenK*

            This was in response to Penny Lane’s comment above, not in response to any of the other responses to that same comment.

        4. tangerineRose*

          It could be tough, in a meeting with people you don’t know, when you’re trying to act professional, to come up with ancestors to talk about when you don’t know who your biological ancestors are. And what if you don’t know much about your family tree? If I had to answer this, I think I’d talk about my grandma, who went back to college after her kids were in school.

      3. LBK*

        Yikes. Wonder how this would’ve gone if someone in the group was descended from slaves – not that no descendant of slaves has ever amounted to anything, obviously, but seems really ignorant of people for whom looking back through family history is not a fun trip or one they can even trace back that far.

        2. EmilyAnn*

          This reminds me of the boss who wants us all to bring in liquors that were from our ancestral countries for an office gift exchange. He really liked talking about his Irish ancestors. Two of the black people in our office were immigrants from Africa, so they had their kind of alcohol, but I immediately shut this idea down when thinking of the African Americans in the office. How are they supposed to know where there ancestors are from in Africa without a DNA test? Also, why would we have an alcohol themed gift exchange? I have no idea what people’s histories are with alcohol.

    10. The Cosmic Avenger*

      The one memorable (in a good way) icebreaker we did was a variation on this. Everyone wrote down one fact about themselves that no one at work knew, and of course you could choose whatever you wanted, so people usually chose achievements that were not work-related. And just like two truths and a lie, you could also choose something more trivial if you wanted to be more private. I learned that one coworker had an MFA and a painting studio at home, which was a really interesting surprise that I still remember almost 10 years later. We had someone read them aloud, then we would guess who it was until we got it right, but as a close-knit group who had worked together for a long time we didn’t really have to worry about making it awkward. If I were to do this with a new group of coworkers, I would ask everyone to make their guesses silently (in their heads or on paper) as I read them, then reveal them all at the end. The guessing could probably lead to some hurt feelings or misunderstandings if the group doesn’t already trust each other at least a little.

    11. Anne Shirley*

      I was an RA in college (a situation where icebreakers are appropriate and frequently used) and in our training each year we were advised by more senior staff to NEVER use two truths and a lie! It takes forever, and everyone spends the time trying to come up with something good rather than listening and engaging with the person. Then again, it still beats “explain your scar”!

      1. Positive Reframer*

        In that case you could use the version where everyone writes them down on an index card, that way at least the majority of people have done their thinking at the same time. Its almost more fun when all of the facts are super normal rather than the most amazing facts about your life.

    12. Anonymous Ampersand*

      I’ve not seen it as an icebreaker, but how about something like “what’s your favourite book/film”, or even “name a book/film that you own that you don’t think anyone else will”?

      1. KarenK*

        We used to do “What’s on your iPod?” at regular staff meetings. Everyone would submit a list of 10 songs, and each month, we’d take a different list of songs, and try to guess whose list it was. Kind of fun, finding out who the rap and heavy metal fans were among a group of doctors and other medical professionals.

    13. Aphrodite*

      Hmm, if I said “bondage, convicted felon, eats children for breakfast.” I wonder how my colleagues would treat me after that day. And what they’d choose as the lie.

      *wanders off, pondering the answer–and the possibility of using it if I ever get the opportunity*

  12. LouiseM*

    In my opinion, the most effective icebreakers are the ones that clearly relate to the topic of the workshop. For example, if the workshop is about finding books in the library catalog (can you tell I’m on a college campus and see posters for this every day?), the icebreaker could be for everyone to share the last topic they researched online for a class project. The point is just to get people talking so that nobody feels awkward being the first to speak, not to “bond” by sharing personal details!

    1. Engineer Girl*

      This. I’ve actually done the favorite scar icebreaker. It was for a Wilderness Medicine class. Since it was outdoorsy people we all had scars.

      The person in OP#1 story was way off base. Emotional scar stories? Where is that ever appropriate but in therapy?

      1. Harper*

        I was thinking that I could see outdoorsy/adventurous/extreme sports type people having better luck with the scar one. In that context, I can see how it could work. In mundane workplaces? Eh, no.

    2. Knitting Cat Lady*

      Yup.

      I have to do regular first aid courses because I’m a first responder at work.

      Typical ice breaker at those courses:

      State name, what you do for a living, what you hope to get out of the course, how long have you been doing fist aid, have you ever been in a fist aid situation/called emergency services.

      1. LouiseM*

        Exactly. If I have a choice, the ice breaker is: Name, pronouns, departmental affiliation, why you wanted to come to the workshop. If I have to add a “fun” icebreaker it’s like what I described above.

        1. Evergreen*

          Yes, i’m big fan of ‘what are you hoping to get out of the workshop’ because it also gives me (as the trainer) some context on which topics to focus on

          2. LBK*

            What do you define as a icebreaker if not a small piece of information to allow you to get to know someone?

            1. smoke tree*

              I feel like “icebreaker” can be used to describe a brief get-to-know-each-other exercise or something that artificially tries to create a sense of deeper intimacy in a short time, which I think is what these overly personal questions are going for–I really question how possible the latter is, or how appropriate is it for work, particularly with the “everyone share something personal about yourself” format.

      2. Antilles*

        +1
        That sort of ’30 second self-introduction’ is all the icebreaker you really need for most workshops and training courses. We’re here for a couple days at most (often less), with a specific agenda of topics that the instructor is going to be doing most of the talking – there’s no real reason to have some detailed icebreaker.
        I’ve done a bunch of first aid/first responder training courses over the course of my life (last count I think I’m up to 6…and I’m actually overdue) and that’s pretty much the exact ‘icebreaker’ they’ve done every single time and it’s consistently worked just fine.

        1. Kelly L.*

          Yep. I don’t even really like those–I’ve said before that I’ve developed a knee-jerk reaction to the phrase “go around the room and”–but for most things, there doesn’t really even need to be ice broken.

      3. nonymous*

        When I took a CERT class one of the icebreaker questions was favorite candy. And then the instructors made a mixed tub of fun sized favorites to put on the conference table each week! Totally superficial but definitely some visceral bonding in the moment.

    3. RaccoonLady*

      This past summer I was at a wedding of a distant relative who didn’t have a lot of family in the country. The couple sat me with some bridesmaids and a few other people who didn’t know many people, and they gave us very generic ice breaker type things as part of the place setting to go around and ask. That situation those worked well because we just wanted to make polite conversation with strangers.
      In a workplace setting, I think the ice breaker should either be related to the topic (like you said) or something very generic and open ended. Like, what is a hobby you have or something interesting about yourself. But I agree it’s better to stick to something related to the topic. I’m in the veterinary profession so a common ice breaker would be what pets you have or an interesting case you’ve seen (with any identifying details withheld of course).

    4. laylaaaaaaaah*

      When I taught ESOL, I used to do ‘name, course, favourite word (in English/mother tongue/something else)’. That usually went down pretty well- anyone who wanted to share something detailed could, and if not, you could just say “I like [word] because it sounds good.”

    6. TrixieBelden*

      Yes to this! I work in education (specifically water/stormwater related) and we always do a “what is your favorite water place” icebreaker. Works a charm and no one feels strange about sharing this type of information!

    7. Anonymeece*

      Ha! We do something similar in our academic library. With faculty, we ask, “When was the last time you went to the library and what for?” (Granted, we do have some contrarian faculty members who give snarky answers, but as our library does IDs for employees/students, tutoring, etc., most of the faculty have wandered up here once or twice). It works great in order to illustrate things we do that some faculty didn’t know about, too. One person would say, “Oh, I went to talk to X about making a research guide for my class,” and other faculty members ask, “Wait, what’s a research guide?”.

      Voila, the faculty learn other departments’ faculty and what they teach, faculty learn more about what we can do for them, and no one’s forced to share awkward emotional scarring. Unless one of our librarians was really mean, I guess.

    8. myswtghst*

      This is how I structure my ice breakers. They’re meant to be quick, to introduce everyone in the group to each other, and to get everyone thinking about the topic we’re about to spend the next few hours covering. If anyone has to really think about it for more than a few minutes or I’ve made people uncomfortable, I’m not doing my job as a facilitator.

  13. LouiseM*

    OP#4, if your hints haven’t worked, you can always try saying that you don’t want to appear to be job searching. I’d say something like, “It’s so nice of you to keep sending me these, but I’m really not looking to leave. And honestly, I’d hate for Boss to happen to walk by as I’m looking at a job ad. It could give her the wrong impression!”

    1. LouiseM*

      Also, OP, I really understand your reluctance at putting your foot down. You sound a lot like me when I was finishing school too. I may be projecting, but I’m the type of person who gets along with everybody and hates to feel like I’ve been even slightly rude to someone I like–sound familiar? But actually, if that’s your personality too then chances are you’ve built up enough goodwill with your coworker that asking her to stop sending you these postings won’t sound rude with the force of your personality behind it! Good luck!

    2. Lily*

      This might backfire if there’s any chance the coworker is trying to push her out as it is implied in the letter.

    3. MLB*

      I disagree. She needs to stop dancing around it and be direct. Clearly hints are not working. For those type of people, you just need to tell them to knock it off (in a professional way of course). It’s no different than making excuses for something you don’t want to do when you just need to say no. Making excuses just gives them more reason to find a way to get you to say yes. And in this situation, saying anything other than “stop sending them to me” is a reason for her to keep doing it. She may not listen, but being direct is the way to go.

      1. Penny Lane*

        OP. What is it that made you reluctant to do the obvious direct “please don’t send these to me anymore”? Are you excessively worried about hurting people’s feelings? How well does this pattern work for you in general, and why would it be a problem if she felt some chagrin at the moment?

        1. NotThatGardner*

          i think this is pretty harsh, though, and not being helpful to the OP with the issue at hand.

          1. Lauren*

            We should be encouraging OPs to speak up for themselves in general. I’ve been guilty of commenting like penny lane, which I feel bad about. It’s very difficult to speak up when the work dynamics could backfire. Bosses favorite, boss could retaliate, a lot of stuff happens that are subtle and most people don’t want to bring up anything that could hurt them later in performance reviews (either overtly or just a shift in perception that changes everything) so lots of people stay quiet.

        2. Anonymeece*

          I come from a culture that is a lot more “dance around the subject”. Being this direct all the time, and starting out this direct, would come across very badly and probably ostracize you from everyone. There are valid reasons why some people do not feel comfortable doing this – from the way they were raised, the culture they’re in, underlying anxiety issues, etc.

          In this case, she’s tried gentle hinting, so being direct is appropriate at this time, but asking why she didn’t at first is not helpful.

        3. #4 OP*

          Hi Penny (: I’m more than happy to be firm when I need to be, but I’m also new to this organization while she has been there for many years. I want to make sure that I don’t ruin my connections (especially in a small office) and make her think I’m angry about her sending me posts. I’m certainly not mad, just a little hurt.

    4. #4 OP*

      That’s a great idea, Louise! I hadn’t even considered what my boss would think– aack. Thanks for the idea (:

  14. Artemesia*

    I have done a lot of short and sometimes multi day or week workshops or training programs and you really do need to start them with some sort of ice breaking activity so people can begin to work together. This is especially important in longer programs, but it can help facilitate a shorter one like this one if it is to be actively engaging.

    BUT most people are annoyed by activities that don’t seem to relate to the objectives of the program or are deeply personal and they tend to waste precious time. Ideally an opening activity will connect to the subject matter and goals of the program and help orient the group to the program. You can draw on their experience without making it intrusive e.g. I have asked people to think of a ‘disaster in the workplace’ i.e. a time where they saw someone make a mistake that cost productivity or otherwise affected the organization in a negative way. We then began to identify potential interventions to fix the disaster and explore whether they were training solutions or other types of solutions. The participants liked sharing their experiences, they didn’t have to admit of any failing on their own part although some did, and it helped outline the purpose of the rest of the program on training interventions.

    1. Ceiswyn*

      A conference I was at added random cute symbols to people’s name badges based on the professional interests they’d listed when they signed up. At the end, there was a prize for the person who correctly identified the meanings of the most symbols.

      So instead of a stilted ‘icebreaker’ activity, people were provided with an actual personal motive to go around talking to each other. Puzzle-solving groups formed. People felt an instant kinship with others who had the same rare symbol. The ice was thoroughly broken.

      Plus, I won the biggest selection box of high-end chocolates I have ever seen in my life. So there’s that :)

    2. Susan Sto Helit*

      If you’re in an environment where everyone can move around, you can do a 10 minute icebreaker with a bingo-style sheet with various people to find. You can either have a basic one ‘someone who is an older sibling’, ‘someone who was born in another country’, ‘someone who was on a sports team at school’, or one more tailored to either the industry you’re in, or the people you know are attending the course (someone with x qualification, someone who has won x award). Give a prize for whoever can get the most names in the time allowed, with the caveat that you can only use each person once.

      1. Susan Sto Helit*

        Oh, also, this was a good one for a social environment gathering – my mom once organized a party for my dad at which the icebreaker for the guests (a lot of who didn’t know each other) was a quiz all about my dad. The idea was that most of the guests would know the answer to at least one of the (multiple choice) questions (they were things like ‘which of these vehicles did he own at university?), and by working your way around the party and speaking to various guests you’d be able to trade answers until you had the full set.

    3. Pebbles*

      We had a small group icebreaker where we had to figure out how best to survive a zombie apocalypse given certain starting factors and then present our solution to the larger group in a few sentences. At the end, everyone voted on the best solution (meaning who would have survived the longest). Took about 15 minutes total and was super fun!

      1. smoke tree*

        I find this kind of group activity way more effective for actually breaking the ice and getting people to talk to each other than awkward “everyone share a personal anecdote” activities.

  15. Thursday Next*

    OP #2, I’m especially appalled on your behalf that the office memo named you as a “desk breaker.” (Utter BS, by the way—who outfits their office with desks that would collapse under the weight of a PC and a compact edition of the OED?) I don’t know what they were hoping to accomplish by shaming you like that; it seems like an immature and unproductive workplace strategy.

    1. Wintermute*

      appropriate times to call someone “desk-breaker”:

      1– You’re a comic book writer, it’s 3am, your deadline is 8:00 and you have crippling writer’s block as to what to name your newest supervillian.

      2– THERE IS NO OTHER REASON

        2. Positive Reframer*

          Also is there a go-cart version of monster trucks? I could totally seeing it being a monster truck driver name in that arena.

    2. Mookie*

      Sounds like buck-passing, as Engineer Girl posits above. It’s such a dirty, petty move, to try to blame someone for malfunctioning or shoddy equipment, and completely verboten where labor is unionized for precisely this reason.

    3. M*

      I was horrified by this as well. It may be an appropriate response for your employer to send a friendly reminder not to sit on desks (although given that you didn’t even sit on the desk, and it seems like this was a freak accident that could happen to almost anyone). It is entirely inappropriate for the company to name you both by name, or attempt to shame you in any way. While I certainly feel sorry for the co-worker who was injured, I am also appalled on your behalf.

      1. SarahKay*

        Agreed. This is an awful situation for both OP and the co-worker, and you both have my sympathy. Leaning on desks is *such* a natural and common thing; I have a spare chair behind me that visitors can sit on, and they still lean on the desk…as do I, when visiting them.
        I’m also horrified by the company naming both of you when it sent out the memo.
        No good advice, sorry, but all my sympathy – I hope it blows over soon.

  16. Espeon*

    OP2: I’m sorry your workplace are being unkind to you, it was an accident and they’ve lacked some sensitivity/professionalism here.

    I don’t think it’s fair to categorise the injured coworker as a ‘jerk’ for not being up for accepting an apology at this point though. If it were me, while I’d understand it was an accident (and that my office had potentially flimsy desks?!), I’d also be very upset and worried about the situation (healing properly etc)… I wouldn’t necessarily be in a good place to genuinely, properly accept an apology from anyone – coworker or workplace – for a while. Give it time.

    1. Thursday Next*

      +1 to the wisdom of the second paragraph. If the injury is recent, it may still be quite painful, and your colleague is also trying to sort out how their daily life will work under new and difficult (albeit temporary) conditions. It’s natural to have strong feelings about someone who hurt you, even if it was an accident. Try not to press your colleague now: give them time to get their bearings.

    2. LouiseM*

      What a great point. It would be a jerk move if the coworker had a grudge six months later, but it could be that he’s just grappling with the shock. I’d be much more upset with the person who sent the memo.

      2. steve*

        also the one injured might have a different view of the whole thing. Different people see the same thing differently sometimes.

      3. Fiennes*

        +1

        Once the worst pain has faded, I fully expect the coworker to redirect that ire at whoever ordered office furniture from “Cardboard for Pixies Warehouse.”

    3. Lissa*

      Yeah, I think it depends on what exactly the coworker did to not accept the apology. I mean, a broken femur is pretty serious, so I’d give a bit of leeway for non-ideal reactions to a point. So long as he’s not demanding you be fired over an accident, or making your work day way harder on a regular basis I’d just give him some space for now.

      I personally am one who would far rather be accidentally injured than accidentally injure someone else (and yes I’ve been in both positions!) so I really feel for you here, OP. I’m sorry that happened.

    4. Tyche*

      We should not forget that a broken femur is a huge deal. It a serious and dangerous accident that could leave chronic paint and/or walking problems. So he is maybe still too shocked to properly accept your apology, maybe he is waiting for a prognosis, maybe he is still angry.

      Just because it was an accident, it doesn’t mean he can’t be angry or hurt.

      1. Thlayli*

        This. A broken femur is a life threatening injury. Lots of people who die in car crashes actually die from a broken femur. It’s extremely unkind to call someone a jerk because they won’t accept the apology of someone who gave them a life threatening injury. Perhaps he will be able to accept it when he’s healed. But he absolutely does not have to accept the apology now, while he’s still seriously injured and probably in significant pain.

        Yeah there are other things that contributed to the injury (cheap/badly made furniture for example), but the primary cause was the OP putting their weight on/against the desk. I wouldn’t accept the apology either, but I probably would in a year or two.

        OP, I think you need to forget about being forgiven, and just focus on keeping your head down and doing your job, until enough time has passed that people start to forget about it and start to reflect on the other aspects, like how poor the desk is.

        1. Had Matter's Pea Tarty*

          >Lots of people who die in car crashes actually die from a broken femur.

          Human biology vexes and confuses me.

          2. Flower*

            In addition to what MommyMD said, the femoral artery runs close along the femur (not right up against it but not far). Useful in most cases, in that it’s deep in the leg so not easily cut, bad in that a broken femur has spiky bits of bone and can cut the artery causing internal bleeding of a major artery if it catches it the wrong way.

          3. Jam Today*

            If your femoral artery is cut via a bad break, you can bleed to death in about a minute and a half.

          1. pandop*

            My Mum broke her femur over 2 years ago, and is still having complications from it. Apparently it would have been ‘better’ (ie easier recovery etc) if her hip had broken instead, but she had already had that replaced!

          2. President Porpoise*

            :( My grandmother (92) just broke her hip again, so this makes me a bit sad. But I think my whole family is braced for her to pass on in the next year or two.

        2. Polar Bear Hug*

          But I broke my wrist (radius) in a fall six months ago, and though it’s a milder injury I am still in physiotherapy and struggling with some of my daily activities. If I were this coworker, knowing what I know now about bone healing and realizing I was facing it again, I wouldn’t be in a very forgiving mood either especially right away. It’s not the LW’s fault, at all, but it’s not the coworker’s either and he’s the one off work and in pain. Calling him a jerk is unfair.

          1. Ask a Manager* Post author

            I had a bad injury a few years back and couldn’t walk for close to a year. I still can’t imagine refusing to accept an apology if it had been an accident. I agree I was wrong about “jerk” in this case because of what people are saying about femurs, but with routine injuries, I do think it would be jerky to refuse to accept an apology from someone who clearly felt awful about causing an accident.

            1. Hmmm*

              I’ve also had very severe injuries and not held it against the people involved… Considering all OP did was lean on a desk, I’d definitely have accepted an apology, regardless of how terrible my situation is.. But apparently that’s unusual. I think I’d they don’t accept one in time they’re a jerk, but now just perhaps not great under injury.

            2. Elizabeth H.*

              I feel the same way. If someone clearly felt awful about causing an accident, especially such a freak accident, I can’t imagine refusing the apology. It’s just the polite thing to do, especially if you are continuing to work with the person.

            3. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

              I agree. Accidents are, by definition… accidents. I can’t imagine refusing a genuine apology for an accident, even one that was devastating to me.

              1. CMart*

                On the one hand, I really can’t fathom not accepting someone’s apology for something that was essentially a freak accident. If this exact situation happened to me I would be angry at the universe, perhaps angry at my company for supplying dangerous equipment, and maybe initially angry at my coworker (“if they hadn’t leaned on my desk this never would have happened to me!”). But given a little time to think about it, the initial anger at my desk-leaning coworker would fade. Everyone leans on desks, there’s no reason to be angry with THEM, plus they’re really, really sorry.

                On the other hand–what if I didn’t perceive this as a genuine freak accident? If I thought my coworker sat heavily on my desk (which can be done by a person at any size–anyone ever lived underneath a toddler? Their tiny 25lb steps shake entire apartment buildings) in an act of carelessness I would be angry, and I’m not sure I’d accept an apology. They should have known better. If they then apologized with “I was just leaning on it, I didn’t know! I’m so, so sorry!” I might get angrier that they were trying to minimize their actions.

                I believe OP2 when they say they simply leaned. But maybe their coworker has a different memory of what happened–our memories are fallible.

                Personally, I’m still nursing a grudge against a college classmate who totaled my car and sent me to the hospital when she made a left turn in front of me. She was 100% at fault and 100% sorry. It was “an accident”, in that of course she didn’t mean to do that! She totaled her own car and was hurt as well. But that doesn’t mean I wasn’t angry that she wasn’t paying better attention, or that she misjudged her ability to turn before I passed, or whatever. That accident should never have happened, regardless of how sorry she was or how much or little she intended it to happen.

            4. What's with today, today?*

              My friend broke her femur in a car accident in August of 2012. They nearly amputated her leg. She’s had 9 surgeries and doesn’t walk well any longer. She can’t stand for long periods, which ended her career as an elementary school teacher. She can’t run after her toddler at the park. You still don’t seem to get that this is a FOREVER injury that will affect the co-worker every day for the rest of that person’s life.

              1. What's with today, today?*

                Why is co-worker a jerk for not wanting to accept an apology for something that will affect them every day, accident or not?

                1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

                  I don’t think he’s a jerk, but I do think it’s antisocial to refuse to accept a genuine apology, for an accident in particular.

              2. Fiennes*

                So if the injury is bad enough you can blame anyone you want, whether or not they were acting deliberately or even actually at fault? What is the level of pain where you’re allowed to condemn whomever you like in perpetuity?

                1. sunny-dee*

                  Two things:

                  1. We don’t know what “don’t accept the apology” actually means. It could mean that the coworker shouted obscenities and had the OP escorted out of her hospital room, or it could simply mean that she huffed and said “whatever” or said “thanks” but looked cranky.

                  2. The OP isn’t some random person the coworker just decided on a whim to blame. The OP actually did a careless action — and incredibly minor careless action and this result was totally not foreseeable. But still, the OP did a careless action that caused grave and serious injury to the coworker. If a dismissive attitude is coming through, I wouldn’t accept an apology either. “Oh, I’m glad you don’t think you did anything to cause this, and you hope I understand … whatever.”

                2. a1*

                  How is leaning on a desk careless? I’d say millions of people do it every day, whether to help themselves up out of the chair, or to reach something, or to talk to someone, or to steady themselves, and so on. It’s far from careless and to describe it as such is disingenuous, imo. It’s not like she was running with scissors or playing frisbee inside.

              3. EditorInChief*

                This exactly. The woman who broke the desk gets to go on with her life uninterrupted while the poor coworker and his family have their lives up ended, PLUS people here think he’s supposed to accept her apology for causing this just to make her feel better? This is ridiculous.

                1. Stardust*

                  I hope this doesn’t come across as condescending, but seeing how this is clearly a very emotional topic for you, you may want to take a break from the comments.

                2. Delphine*

                  She didn’t do anything wrong, she doesn’t need to be held responsible for what was either a freak accident or a result of the company’s negligence in providing sturdy office furniture. Why should she not get to go on with her life uninterrupted?

                3. Lissa*

                  What should happen to someone who has an accident (assuming true accident, not carelessness) that causes another person a major injury other than their life going on uninterrupted, after apologizing?

                4. EditorInChief*

                  Oh nothing should *happen* to her. She needs to stop whining about how she apologized and he won’t accept her apology. He and his family are dealing with concerns related to a major life change; he is under no obligation to have any conversation with her at all. I think she’s being very self-centered. She accepts zero responsibility for parking herself against co-worker’s desk and causing the desk and herself to fall on top of the co-worker.

                6. Em*

                  My read was that OP mentioned that co-worker did not accept the apology as information about the situation in the office. I don’t think OP was complaining that the co-worker didn’t accept the apology or asking how to make the co-worker accept the apology. OP asked how to behave in that situation, and the fact that the co-worker did not accept the apology is pertinent – it means OP has to figure out how to act around the co-worker as well, which will probably be different than if the co-worker had accepted the apology, and I think it puts limits on what OP can do around the rest of the office (e.g. I wouldn’t advise OP in these circumstances to ask co-worker to tell everyone else that they’ve worked it out and put it behind them).

                  This letter has inspired some insanely passionate responses in ways that I think miss the point of why the OP wrote in. E.g. the whole line of comments about whether co-worker is/is not a jerk for not accepting the apology. Or all the comments about sturdy furniture/leaning vs sitting/heavy people. Very few comments actually answer the OPs question about how to act in the office after accidentally injuring a co-worker.

    5. Human*

      Agree that Alison’s characterization of the injured coworker is quite unkind. A broken femur is a big deal! If it was a hip fracture (which involves breaking the femur), that’s a 20% chance of dying within a year if Wikipedia is accurate. How would you feel if not only are you suddenly unable to walk, use the bathroom independently, but you now have a 1/5 chance of dying soon? LW is probably the easiest person for the injured person to blame.

      1. Kathletta*

        That’s true – there are people upthread calling this guy a scammer etc but it is a really serious injury and must be so scary! I don’t think he’s a jerk for not coming around straight away, especially if he’s still waiting on tests etc.

      3. fposte*

        The 20% is strongly influenced by how many people suffering that injury are elderly and already in poorer health, though; it’s not an across-the-board prognosis.

        1. Thlayli*

          True, but there’s no reason to believe he’s not elderly either. Also, a broken femur can have long lasting health implications even if you are young and fit.

          1. fposte*

            I’m not saying it’s not serious; I’m just saying he doesn’t have a 20% chance of dying. And yes, there is plenty of reason to believe he’s not elderly, because it’s demographically unlikely that he’s over 70 and 1) in an office and 2) in this post without his age being mentioned.

          2. PhyllisB*

            True. My grand-son had his accident right before Thanksgiving and just had the rods removed two weeks ago. I don’t why, but they didn’t put a cast on, he had what looked like a huge ace bandage all way up his leg. He had to use a walker and when he went back to school he used a wheelchair during school hours. He is totally recovered now, but the doctor told him no jumping or bouncing for the next three months. I guess children just heal quicker than adults.

    6. Mad Baggins*

      So true. A friend was careless and accidentally damaged my teapot handle. I knew it was a quick, cheap fix, and I knew it was an accident and she had no way of knowing my teapot was there. But for a few moments I was still mad that she did it. Once it was fixed I was able to cool down and it’s water under the bridge. The coworker might feel the same way and may need some time to heal–physically and psychologically.

    7. Sylvan*

      I agree. (And I should have read the comments before posting my own – I could have just given this a +1!)

    8. AcademiaNut*

      Yeah, given the seriousness of a broken femur – surgery, 4-6 month recovery time, physical therapy, possibility of complications – not to mention an extended period off work (possibly without pay) and medical costs, I wouldn’t judge them too harshly for not graciously accepting an apology when they’re still on medical leave.

      The employers, however, are being jerks.

    9. all aboard the anon train*

      I agree. I’m a little surprised at how harsh people are being to the coworker. Like others have said, if it’s a recent injury, he might still be really rattled. I think most of us have unfairly blamed someone in the heat of the moment for an accident, but realized it’s not their fault after the fact.

      And I’d like to know what not accepting an apology means in this case. Did the coworker yell at the OP? Did they threaten to sue them? Did they get very angry? Or did they just hear the apology and not say anything? There’s a big difference, and I could understand the coworker doing something like the latter immediately after the incident.

      1. Kelly L.*

        And I think it makes a difference whether OP tried to apologize right then (which I’m sure she did, because most people would) or whether she also tried to apologize later when the metaphorical smoke had cleared, as in days or weeks later. Right in the moment, even though apologizing was the right thing to do, co-worker probably couldn’t really even process the apology. IMO it’s different if he couldn’t manage even a “I know it was an accident, OP” weeks after the fact; obviously he’s still in pain, but I think he’d be more rational then.

    10. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

      This is really important (and not just because the coworker is being inexplicably shat on in the comments because some people either don’t quite get or outright doubt that he’s suffering a severe and debilitating injury). OP2, your coworker’s refusal to accept your apology is almost certainly more about *the situation* than it is about *you.* It sure doesn’t help when your company has named and shamed you and you’re feeling humiliated. But unlike whatever moron made the decision to put you on blast to the entire company, your coworker is going through an extremely tough time and is probably not in a state of mind to be gracious and understanding. You did the right thing by apologizing right away, but a human face makes for an easier target for anger than nebulous circumstance, and you are unfortunately the “face” of this accident. It really was not your fault and your coworker, in time, should realize that and accept your apology. If not, then yep, he’s a jerk. But for now, the situation is generally fucked and emotions are running high, and your coworker’s refusal to accept your apology right now is not likely to be his final word on the matter.

    11. INeedANap*

      I completely agree. I’m shocked at the people calling the injured party a jerk for their reaction and I was really disappointed to read that in Alison’s response. I’m not blaming OP, I understand completely that OP is not at fault here, but this is a serious, painful, potentially life-altering injury and people are expecting Coworker to somehow be gracious?

      It is not up to Coworker to be the bigger person here; Coworker is injured badly, in pain, and is going to be facing the consequences of this for a long time. I can’t believe some comments aren’t cutting Coworker some slack here.

      While I feel bad for OP, OP was embarrassed while Coworker went to the hospital. OP’s feelings are hurt, while Coworker may face physical consequences from this injury for the rest of their life. And yet somehow Coworker isn’t being sensitive enough to OP’s feelings?

    12. The Original K.*

      Agreed. If my leg were broken, I would be more focused on that than on the apology. I wouldn’t have the bandwidth to focus on both, at least right away, and I wouldn’t prioritize the apology. Soothing the OP’s hurt feelings wouldn’t come before my dealing with everything that goes along with my broken femur.

  17. Emmie*

    2: I understand why the other person would be angry. He is off work, hurting, probably getting surgery, unable to do basic tasks, and may be getting only a fraction of his pay. This person’s anger is misdirected at you. He would be angry at the company for its failure to buy desks that do not hold a human. The facilities person is deflecting the problem towards you. This isn’t your fault. As other’s pointed out, desks should hold more than a child. Your organization should not have named you. It should have warned employees that they shouldn’t lean on desks. If people discuss this around you, it’s okay to tell them that you were only leaning on the desk, it was humiliating, and you need them to stop the accident reminders. If it continues, you should discuss it with your manager.

    1. MommyMD*

      It’s a true accident and not OPs fault, but I think when you are heavier than average you do have to put extra thought into the stability of furniture. I do think her employer is a jack a.ss for handling it this way, but I can see the injured party maybe thinking she was somewhat careless. It’s a shame it happened because both parties are suffering. She should not have been named in the memo. That’s just mean.

      1. CityMouse*

        It also depends put how you move. It takes more effort to control your sitting so I have seen some people just kind of drop into chairs or similar, and that increases the amount of force you put on something. To be clear, this is not what I am saying happened here, but it is on everyone, regardless of size, to be aware of how they exert their bodies.

        1. CMart*

          Yes–being aware of how your body is impacting the world around you is a task for all humans of every size.

          My husband is constantly exclaiming “HOW is she so LOUD?!” in reference to our 15 month old who thunders around our home, shaking the photos off the wall as she stomps around with all the might of her 20lbs. It’s because she’s putting her entire body weight behind each step–she hasn’t REALLY learned to walk yet–just throw herself forward and the legs catch her.

          I had a wicker papasan chair that I brought with me to college. I’d had it since I was 10 years old and it was essentially still in perfect condition. I had to throw it away after a semester of my friends drunkenly throwing their bodies into it and stressing the joints until it fell apart.

      2. dr_silverware*

        I don’t think that’s a super helpful suggestion to OP. I promise that OP does already move through the world putting extra thought into the stability of furniture; it’s part of the emotional tension of being heavy. Which is why the desk breaking is so extra startling—they’d already made the judgment that it was stable.

      3. Detective Amy Santiago*

        As has been extensively pointed out, the same thing could have happened even when a person of average weight leaned against it. There is no reason to shame the OP or for anyone to blame her for the accident.

        1. sunny-dee*

          Uh, no, it really couldn’t have. Even if the desk broke, it wouldn’t have broken with the same force for the simple reason that the OP is the size of, like, 2.5 people. If 2-3 people had leaned on it, then, yeah, the same thing could have happened. But, no, this isn’t something that could just happen to “anybody,” and for all the comments people are making about it being unkind to point out the OP’s weight, it’s not helpful to say completely untrue things to try to ignore it.

      4. Tobias Funke*

        Fat people are constantly aware of our bodies and furniture and stability of things.

    2. Clare*

      To be fair desks are not meant to hold humans. Thats not what they are designed for. I agree that sitting or leaning on them is a natural thing to do, but i dont think we can jump to the conclusion that the desks were defective or shoddy.

      1. Mike C.*

        This is simply ridiculous. 100 lbs is an incredibly low standard to build a desk to and leaning/sitting on a desk is perfectly normal and common behavior.

        There is no reason to defend the quality of this furniture.

        1. Clare*

          Most regular office workers don’t have 100 lbs worth of stuff on their desks, and even if they do having several smaller objects spread out over the desk is different than 1 larger object putting pressure all in one spot. And yes, as I said above while it is normal for people to sit or lean on desks that doesn’t mean you are supposed to do that. Desks are not made for people to sit on them.

          1. Observer*

            That’s actually not true. Many office workers have a computer and printer on their desks, plus a couple of books or binders. At that point, you’re often very close to 100 lb, which would mean that putting anything else on your desk, or leaning on he desk as you look at something spread out on it – a very normal use of a desk – would routinely create problems.

            1. Clare*

              If you have your own personal printer on your desk, then you are either pretty high up the food chain or work in an unusually swanky office.

              1. Elizabeth H.*

                I had a printer and two monitors on my desk when I was a program coordinator making 39k a year. I don’t think it means anything at all.

              2. Emi.*

                I work for a government office where we’re not even allowed to buy dish soap for the kitchenette and I have my own printer.

              3. Observer*

                In fact, it’s often the cheaper places that do this – it costs less up front to get individual smaller printers that good quality shared printers.

                There are other reasons to have individual printers as well.

              5. Stargirl*

                Clare, I respectfully want to say that some of your office perceptions are inaccurate. I make under $32k a year and am fairly low down on the totem pole at my job, so I haven’t earned a swanky office yet. I have a printer, phone, three monitors, 8 trays filled with supplies, and other random office junk all on my desk. It’s pretty reasonable to conclude OP’s coworker’s desk may be shoddy. My managers/ coworkers regularly sit or lean on my desk while talking with me. They are all men who are on the heavy side. My desk is over 20 years old so it has been through some wear, but has held everyone and everything up without issue. If a desk can’t handle just being leaned on by a grown adult, it’s probable something is wrong with the desk. They have indeed been built to handle quite a bit of weight so I think it would actually be unhelpful to just assume something ISN’T wrong with it. Either way, I hope this story ends well for all involved.

              6. Anonymeece*

                Another coordinator here making >$50K, and I have my own printer and two monitors.

      2. Millennial Lawyer*

        The facilities manager said they only hold 100 pounds. I work in a government office – if our desks only held 100 pounds *whew* there would be a lot of problems.

        1. Bacon Pancakes*

          I work in (state) government too, and when I read this I thought “Damn, my desk probably has 100# of paperwork on it now!”

      3. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

        I have a junky old desk at home that I bought from the thrift store. It currently has 5 boxes of books on it, plus miscellaneous other moving-related boxes. I would be very surprised if that weight was less than 100 pounds. And it’s fine! Because desks are meant to hold things.

        I’ve also sat on that desk — fully sat, as in my entire not-that-off-from-the-OP’s weight on the desk — and aside from some creaking, it’s been fine.

        A desk that collapses when someone leans on it is a piece of crap, full stop.

      4. tangerineRose*

        Since people tend to lean against or sometimes sit on desks, then it makes sense that desks should be built to take this.

  18. ENFP in Texas*

    I suppose saying “I found being asked to share details about a physical or emotional scar to be emotionally scarring” would have been snarky? ;)

    Recently held a forum with customers, and went around the room and had an ice breaker. Ours was name, company, title, and one thing we were looking to take away from the forum. That actually worked really well, because even as we went around the table, the attendees were finding that they had things in common and it was promoting dialogue and conversation.

    1. Indoor Cat*

      Ooh, “what are you looking to take away from the forum?” is perfect. I might have to steal that one.

      1. SarahKay*

        Ummm…yes, so long as you’re reasonably sure everyone *chose* to be there. I’ve had that ice-breaker for a conference I was ordered to attend at pretty much no notice and with no information on what it was about. I was just very glad I wasn’t the first person asked, because I really had no idea what it was about.

        1. Specialk9*

          I feel like this is a vanishingly rare situation, that someone went to all the trouble of getting to a conference, without any clue what it’s about.

          Unless maybe one’s offices are collocated with a number of free conferences and a last minute ‘go now’ order would be feasible.

    2. Summer*

      Ours was name, company, title, and one thing we were looking to take away from the forum.

      That’s a classic approach, simple but effective. Icebreakers don’t need to be a big deal and they should be adjusted to the occasion, like you did. There’s usually little if any harm in icebreakers if you keep the level of appropriate information in mind, and most of the time, the group benefits from it. (Like Tuckman said: group dynamics evolve from forming to storming to norming to performing).

    3. Bagpuss*

      That was my first thought, too, ENFP
      OP#1, do you have any way of offering feedback to or about the trainer? There are so many ways that particular ice-breaker can go wrong, (I know at least one person who is very squeamish and liable to faint or throw up if subjected to graphic blood-and-guts descriptions, for instance) quite apart from the inappropriateness of people being asked to share personal details about emotional scars.
      I think in most business contexts, the ice-breaker simply needs to be a round of introductions – who you are, where you are from (i.e. organisation/department)
      For a course or training session, the question about what you hope to get out of the session / why you chose to attend can be a good one as it is relevant and gives feedback, but I think mostly only works in small groups otherwise it can get very repetitive (i was once on a course where the trainer asked why people were there, which kind of backfired because the answer was “because this is a compulsory course”. )

      1. Penny Lane*

        I would absolutely offer feedback to the trainer that the scar icebreaker was inappropriate.

    4. Observer*

      Snort. Very snarky – but totally appropriate. It was also my first thought.

      I don’t think I would have he guts to do it myself, but I would totally appreciate someone who did.

    5. Fiennes*

      It depends on the use of the icebreaker. If you’re primarily just warming up people for a presentation, this is fine—but if you actually want to spur conversation/connections/remembering each other, this would be way too generic.

  19. Sam*

    “Scar stories” is my least favorite ice breaker. I don’t really scar, so I have no good stories, and I’m also super squeamish and don’t want to hear about the gash in your leg. I also had an awkward ice breaker where two people in the group were close friends and the ice breaker was “share something no one else knows.” Uh… if my friends don’t know, it’s either personal or boring. I went with boring for that one.

    Some of the better ice breakers are directly related to the event and sharing an intention, ie what they hope to get out of a seminar or a challenge they’re trying to get through in a project. Creative? No. Useful? Absolutely.

    And when in doubt… “you’re at the airport and your flight is delayed by three hours. But they gave you a $25 voucher you can spend anywhere in the airport. How do you use it?”

    1. LAM*

      I dislike the scar icebreaker for the opposite reason. I scar really easily. I joke that if you look at my skin funny it’ll leave a mark. I’ve had some really prominent scars that occurred for not impressive reasons. For about a year I had a pretty narly looking scar on my shin that was caused by… shaving.

      (I forgot I just changed my razor and applied a little too much pressure. Did it bleed? Eh. Not really. Did it look like a scar that had a story? Absolutely.)

      1. Bryce*

        I had one of those once, razor caught wrong and I had a nice long scar up my cheek for a week or so. Looked like I was a Bond villain or something.

      2. Hornswoggler*

        “I slipped through a rift in the space-time continuum and was mauled by a velociraptor.”

      3. Andraste's Knicker Weasels*

        Truth! I have a 1″+ scar just above my left knee that looks like I was stabbed or something. How’d I get it? The edge of my thumbnail scraped it when I was pulling my pants down to sit on the toilet. :x

      4. Gorgo*

        I would choose my tiniest scar and then tell the most boring, long-winded story I could.

        “It’s from a pin. Not a safety pin, but a sewing pin. The kind that has a little bit of colorful plastic at the top. I don’t remember what color it was. Maybe it was green? Anyway, I had just taken the pin out of my pincushion, which looked like a hedgehog…”

        Grandpa Simpson style.

    2. One of the Sarahs*

      In an all-Directorate meeting, we had to pair up with someone we didn’t usually talk to, and the icebreaker was “what did you do at the weekend?” which the other would relate. There was the excruciatingly dull moment when 60-odd people went round in the circle relaying each other’s dull stories, only brightened by the two mates who had paired up – “this is Tom – this weekend he had sex”.

    3. Parenthetically*

      “you’re at the airport and your flight is delayed by three hours. But they gave you a $25 voucher you can spend anywhere in the airport. How do you use it?”

      I buy a bottle of water and a dismal little sandwich and sigh sadly at my twelve cents change. ;)

      I cannot imagine subjecting a group of strangers to my scar stories. Some of them are hilarious, but by far my most significant one is from a terrifying emergency c-section and you know what? I don’t want to talk about that at an effing work meeting.

    4. I Wrote This in the Bathroom*

      The scar icebreaker would’ve been perfect for me, because I have the easiest out on that one. I was 9 and was home by myself after school and decided to teach myself how to slice bread. Sliced my middle finger instead. Still have the scar. Heck, I could tell the story and then show everyone my middle finger as proof! wouldn’t that be the absolute perfection of an icebreaker answer?

      But I’m the lucky exception, and this ice breaker is the absolute worst and needs to never be used by anyone again.

      I’ve seen a few good ones. Your favorite band or your favorite movie always go over well. My favorite one was “what was your favorite subject in school, and are you still using it now?” I’m an immigrant in the US… when my turn came, I said “English”, thanked the facilitator for giving me an easy question, and that was it. My coworkers probably didn’t learn much about me from that one, but oh well. I did learn a few interesting facts about some of the other coworkers, who’d liked unexpected things in school like biology, art etc and some were still using them now – doing art and so on.

      1. RVA Cat*

        Love the middle finger idea.
        I can’t help but imagine Forrest Gump at this icebreaker….

  20. Annie Mouse*

    Icebreaker wise I like two truths and a lie, it’s quick, you control what information is shared and you can learn some interesting facts about people.
    The other one I liked was when my class had to introduce ourselves (for the umpteenth time to each other but the first time to the tutor who would be our full time tutor from then on) and say what our favourite crisps (chips) were. There were some interesting choices, so discussion about types of crisps that we’d forgotten about and it made the repeated introductions far less boring. And took very little extra time.
    Much better than the lecturer who wanted to know what we thought of a politician who had been in the news lately. We were less than a week from our major exams and so half the class hadn’t had time to see the news and had no idea what had happened!!

    1. pandop*

      We had something similar at an ‘away day’ for a team that had recently been reconfigured. We all submitted our favourite dessert in advance, and then had to match the people up with their choices – by asking them. Simple and effective, you spoke to everyone, and found out something about them that you might have in common ‘oh you’re the other creme brulee’. It worked well for a team where people were you vaguely knew everyone, but not always very well

    2. curly sue*

      Oh, I like that one about the crisps! I teach a couple of classes where 90% of the group move as a cohort and have for at least two years, but there’re always a few new students taking electives who aren’t part of the main program. It’s tricky trying to balance the ‘don’t isolate the new guys’ introductions with ‘not boring the crowd who practically all live together already.’

    3. Parenthetically*

      Yeah I love simple little ones. Favorite cafe you’ve ever visited/city you’ve ever been to/cookie/type of flower/thing to do on a rainy day, something you made you’re really proud of, a show/book/podcast you’re excited about right now and why.

      I just did a quick search for “simple icebreakers” and honestly someone needs to track down the people who are writing those articles and smack them upside the head. What adult wants to be forced to do a “stupid human trick,” or mime what they did last night, or hum a song, or do “name aerobics” with an action for every person’s name, in front of colleagues or strangers?! EGADS.

      1. Rebecca in Dallas*

        I’ve been in a group where we had to share our favorite pizza restaurant and it’s a good one because people are VERY passionate about what kind of pizza they like!

    4. non*

      My favorite icebreaker was a fun, silly one where we all did a quiz/guessing game about our coworkers. Basically, everyone did a short survey a few days in advance and then we all guessed on questions like “Which coworker’s favorite color is blue?” or “Which coworker secretly loves country music?” It was short, fun, and it actually broke the ice between everyone which is the whole point!

      Meeting organizers sometimes forget that an icebreaker is meant to be enjoyable, not to force everyone into uncomfortable situations.

  21. LouiseM*

    While we’re talking about ice breakers, I want to put in a plug for encouraging people to share pronouns while doing introductions. For those unfamiliar, the facilitator models it anyway. So it would go something like: “Before we get started, I’d like to know a bit about everyone. Can everyone say their name, what pronouns we should use to refer to them, and their department? I’ll go first. My name is Louise, you can use the pronouns “she, hers, and hers” to refer to me, and my department is Unicorn Horn Sharpening.” I like to do this at every meeting even if I know all the people there and their preferred pronouns–it normalizes the practice for people who aren’t used to it. (That’s also why I use the cumbersome “you can use…to refer to me” because a lot of people don’t understand “my pronouns are”)

    3. all aboard the anon train*

      I’m of two minds on this. It’s great in theory, but outside of LGBTQA+ environments, it also runs the risk of making someone feel like they need to out themselves when they may not be comfortable doing so. And it’s not safe to use this icebreaker in all situations.

      I do a lot of work with LGBTQA+ advocacy and support groups and this is an issue that has come up a lot recently, and several people have stated that even if they use gender neutral pronouns, they sometimes feel uncomfortable being asked directly to state them in non-LGBTQA+ only spaces. It’s the same way I don’t mind sharing info about my sexuality in LGBTQA+ spaces, but I’d be really uncomfortable if I had to state my sexuality in a work meeting as an icebreaker (I know this is less likely to come up, but it’s the best comparison I can think of).

      YMMV on this, and like I said, I do think it’s good to attempt to normalize the practice, but I also think you have to be very careful with it in non-LGBTQA+ settings. And I hate that we have to be careful, but unfortunately that’s the way the world is.

      1. TL -*

        Yeah, I also think that outside of an LGBTQA+ setting it would be a little more tricky. I agree that not everyone would be outed in every situation, or might feel pressure to give their preferred pronouns when that’s not what they wanted in that particular setting.
        But it’s also increased cognitive load in a hugely cognitively demanding setting (versus one on one or small social group, where I would be able to focus on you and specifically associate pronouns with face and person for a set amount of time with very little distractions) And if I couldn’t pronoun someone correctly (because my memory is that bad), I might be hesitant to talk about them at all, out of fear of harming them, which if I want to sing your praises after a discussion, might be harder (in a setting where I wouldn’t expect people to correct me and/or step in if I was struggling to pronoun someone correctly.) That being sad, I wouldn’t be upset or frustrated by anyone who introduced themselves that way; I’d just be frustrated with myself for my shabby memory.

        The other thing is a lot of people haven’t thought about this and it might be a bit much to spring it at an icebreaker with no warning – people might feel more awkward afterwards instead of less or get caught up thinking about pronouns instead of the topic.
        Personally, I just don’t care how you refer to me, pronoun-wise, so if someone asks me to fill it in a form (I’ve never been asked in person) I just leave it blank. I think if you asked, I would just shrug and say whatever’s easiest for you. I’m a cis woman, so I realize there’s a whole crapton of privilege there but asking people to unpack their privilege is a lot to do in an icebreaker for an (unrelated) topic. It’s a big shift in social norms and asking people to think how they identify and why (if they’ve never thought about it before) is super reasonable so is being aware of how much you’re asking of them and when.

        1. One of the Sarahs*

          I was just going to ask, doesn’t it make things harder to remember? If I’m being introduced to 12 other people in an icebreaker in a 2 hour session, I’m not going to remember the names/workplaces of more than a handful, especially not if we’re not interacting personally, but diving into a training session. I wouldn’t avoid talking to/about someone, but I’d be worried about getting things wrong, just like I worry about getting names wrong in non-name-tagged environments.

          1. Thlayli*

            I would have zero chance of remembering 10 names, let alone 10 names and 30 pronouns!

            This might be a good idea in, say a non-profit focused on trans rights advocacy. But it would be really weird in the majority of workplaces.

            Looking at Wikipedia it seems more than 99% of the population identify as cisgender. Add in the fact that icebreakers are not really useful for a huge training session of over 100 people, and statistically the vast vast majority of icebreaking is going to be done in a room with 100% cisgender people. Imagine going around the room with 30 cisgender people all listing their pronouns. It would be a farce and would just make a joke of the whole pronoun issue, so I think it would be very counterproductive.

            1. Falling Diphthong*

              And of the who aren’t cis, a very large number identify as one gender, just not the one they were born into.

            2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

              There’s value in reminding people that they shouldn’t make assumptions about what pronouns to use.

              1. LouiseM*

                Thanks Victoria! People take these lessons out of the workshop.

                Also, nobody should assume that the only place they will encounter trans people is at some sort of LGBTQ meeting. It’s not like the only thing trans people do is go to activist groups.

              2. Iris Eyes*

                (This is meant to be thought provoking not antagonistic)

                I would like to ask you why you think it is reasonable to not make such an assumption about others? That is the way that the human brain is programmed to work, we categorize things we judge our present experiences based on past ones. Why would you assume that it’s even possible for people not to make assumptions like that?

                Granted, if your assumptions are false you should be quick and ready to change them as soon as the issue comes up.

            3. theletter*

              I’ve been in a couple of situations where having people specify preferred gender pronouns would have made things a lot less awkward for everyone. I think going around and having everyone say it just makes it easy for the one person who might be transitioning or prefers ‘they/them’ to let everyone know what they prefer. And usually, for that one person, everyone remembers, or at least tries to remember, and it makes a huge difference for that participant, plus anybody else who’s awkwardly wondering how that person identifies because most people want to be polite.

              Then we all do it so that’s equal and it’s not awkward and it only takes a hot second to say ‘she/her’ along with everything else.

          2. Squeeble*

            This is one reason I dislike icebreakers–if we’re asked to go around and share, like, 4 things, I spend a lot of time making a list in my head of what I’m supposed to say and pay no attention to what everyone else is saying. It defeats the entire purpose.

        2. Falling Diphthong*

          Yeah, “let’s unpack our privilege” is not a great ice breaker in most contexts. Not unless it’s the focus of the meeting, rather than “how to use the new phone system.”

          1. LouiseM*

            Okay, don’t want to derail, but the point of sharing pronouns is not “let’s unpack our privilege.” It’s actually to avoid exactly the kind of awkward situation that people write in to AAM about, where in a meeting you keep referring to your coworker as “she” but actually the coworker uses “he” pronouns. If someone hasn’t already written in “Help! I accidentally misgendered my coworker” or the reverse then it’s only a matter of time.

              1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

                Eh, it’s not universally good or bad. Some trans folks and organizations serving trans folks ask people to declare their pronouns, others invite them to do so, and others don’t do it at all.

                1. Observer*

                  I’m talking specifically about asking each person to state their pronouns in this type of setting.

                2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

                  Yes, me too. There is not agreement (in the trans community or trans orgs) about how and whether to use this practice.

            2. all aboard the anon train*

              I mean, if someone who does use a gender neutral pronoun wants to bring it up during the introductions, I think that’s totally their call. But people shouldn’t be forced to do that if they don’t want to share that pronoun in a meeting or haven’t brought it up at work before.

              I don’t think this is so much about unpacking privilege so much as protecting people in the LGBTQA+ community from feeling like they have to state their identity in a meeting or non-LGBTQA+ environment. There’s a level of discomfort that happens in these situations where people who aren’t vocal about their pronouns or sexuality at work feel like they can’t lie when they’re asked directly about it because that may be closeting themselves (you can be out but not want to discuss it at work), but there also the worry that bringing it up will derail the conversation or cause other issues.

              1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

                Totally. Most places I work with these days tend to invite people to share their pronouns if they wish.

                1. all aboard the anon train*

                  Yes. I think we’re just at that weird stage where people mean well, but don’t know how to phrase it in a way that makes it comfortable and safe for individuals who might still be uncomfortable.

                  It’s much better to phrase it as an option rather than a demand.

                2. LouiseM*

                  totally, all aboard the anon train. It’s late so I’m sure nobody will see this, but the whole point of having the facilitator demonstrate is to show people (including cis people who’ve never thought about it in their life) how they can do it, and to leave an opening for people to do it, not to interrogate anyone. I’ve seen situations where nobody offers their pronouns and the one nonbinary person in the room is left wondering if they should offer them spontaneously or just wait for an opening later on (after being misgendered prior to that opening)–not ideal.

      2. Had Matter's Pea Tarty*

        Yeah, using it in the general workplace is just inviting me to open myself for judgement on nonbinary identities, whether they’re real or if I’m just a special snowflake, the use of ‘they’ as a singular, and all of that good stuff.

      3. Mookie*

        I’ve experienced this first-hand, and it can get very de-railing and dehumanizing quite quickly if a participant naming their pronoun and in doing so being perceived by someone as aberrant is interrogated about what they mean and why. It really takes a skilled leader to introduce the subject and carefully guide the attendant discussion in a way that protects marginalized people while also allowing judgmental, intolerant people, ignorant people, and proud bigots enough room not to overtly out themselves. I remember one woman repeatedly shushing another woman because that woman wanted a third party to stop describing non-binary people in pejorative terms. This third party “had a right” to think and say out loud that these people were icky, it would seem. Resulted in a really stiff atmosphere where no one wanted even to interact on a very superficial level with the transphobic and trans-exclusionary wings of our office, for understandable reasons.

        1. Positive Reframer*

          Just a though: That’s a lot of name calling to call someone out for name calling.

          The vast majority of people are well intentioned, they just see the world from a different perspective. As someone who clearly values the experiences of others, even when they differ from the majority, you may want to see why an otherwise presumably decent person and you can so strongly disagree on the same subject. I found The Righteous Mind by Jonathan Haidt to be a useful resource in my own exploration of how people can see each other as evil while both claiming to be good.

          1. Mookie*

            No, I find calling someone a bigot a pretty efficient way of identifying someone as a bigot. Thanks for your concern about my open
            mindedness on the subject of trans and nonbinary people’s fundamental humanity. I’m good.

      4. Yorick*

        I think it’s unnecessary unless it’s an LGBTQA+ setting or it’s the focus of the meeting.

        Also, outside of certain settings, most people are cis. It’d be super tedious for all the participants in the seminar about the new email system to list their completely obvious pronouns.

    4. Clewgarnet*

      I’m agender, and I shudder at the thought of this. I’m not out at work largely because I simply cannot be bothered explaining the whole faff. Even if I gave my preferred pronouns in a supportive environment like your meetings, there’d inevitably be people following up with me afterwards and expecting me to give the Beginner’s Guide to Gender Identity, and I’m so not here for it.

    5. Guacamole Bob*

      I have a friend who teaches at a liberal arts college, and when she asks her students to introduce themselves on the first day of class she asks for their names “and if there’s anything you want us to know about how to address you, like a nickname or what pronouns you’d like us to use.” The pronoun thing has been normalized enough at that college that some students chime in, others don’t, and it seems to be a good balance between giving people opportunities (a number of students in her classes use nontraditional pronouns) and letting them choose what to share.

      1. SarahTheEntwife*

        I really like that phrasing! I’m more out about pronouns at work now, but a couple years ago I was in the deeply awkward place of “do I lie, or do I decide that I’m coming out as nonbinary to half the university administration?”. I chose the latter, and the useful thing about such a big group was that as far as I can tell zero people noticed. But it was really isolating to be the only person in the giant group to say anything other than he or she.

      2. Thing1*

        I’m also at a liberal arts college. Many of my students do seem to expect something about pronouns, it does seem to be part of the school’s culture at this point. I’ve also started linking it to preferred name/nickname as a concept (eg, “Please feel free to correct me if I call you the wrong nickname or pronoun, I don’t want to keep getting it wrong”). I don’t make mine share it out loud, but at the end of the first class I have them put a little bit of information on a card, including preferred name and pronouns, and I tell them that I can also do one in private and one in class, if they want. It’s the best balance I’ve found so far between making sure people get a chance to express it without making anyone feel pressured to lie or come out.

      3. LouiseM*

        Yeah, totally agreed, it REALLY depends on the type of environment. In academia I think these things are becoming more common than in some corporate environments. Obviously the advice doesn’t apply to everyone, but I think it’s a good thing for everyone to at least consider.

        1. all aboard the anon train*

          The only concern I have about this becoming the norm in academia is that I’ve seen new graduates ask people in my corporate environment point blank about their pronouns* and I think that ties in with the situation above. No one should feel like they have to hide, but it’s also such a faux pas to directly ask someone what their identity is because 1. it’s none of your business and 2. they should feel comfortable telling you on their own terms.

          *It’s never been a situation where someone says, “if anyone wants to correct me about their use of pronouns, let me know!”. It’s always, “what’s your pronoun?”

    6. Jortina*

      Maybe I’m being dense, but how does asking someone their preferred pronoun out them? They are already being referred to as some set of pronouns at work. They can just say those pronouns if that’s what they are comfortable with. If they want an opportunity to let people know they’d prefer different ones, they can do that.

      1. all aboard the anon train*

        Within the LGBTQA+ community, it’s considered a faux pas to directly ask someone their sexuality or pronouns because it’s a sensitive topic that should be addressed by that person first, not by someone else. It’s similar to how you don’t ask someone if they’re pregnant, but let them bring up the topic when they’re ready.

        For example, I’m bi, but I don’t want everyone I work with to know that I’m bi because I don’t want to be their token bi coworker, deal with microaggressions, or have to answer really inappropriate questions. If someone asks me if I’m bi, I feel uncomfortable lying because I feel like that’s putting myself back in the closet, but I don’t want to say yes because I don’t know how they’ll react and they really shouldn’t be asking me something that’s none of their business.

        This debate is more about protecting LGBTQA+ individuals from awkward situations and letting them decide how to bring up their pronouns or sexuality. The way to phrase it in a group setting is, “If anyone has a pronoun they want to be referred by, please let us know” not “tell me your pronoun”. The first example let’s that person decide if they’re comfortable telling everyone their preferred pronoun while the latter puts them in an awkward situation where they either have to lie or bring up their neutral pronoun before they may be comfortable doing so.

        1. Not a Mere Device*

          Similarly, my twitter self-description ends with “she/her,” and a while ago I posted something along the lines of “I’m not sure what some of your pronouns are, please comment here to tell me.”

          I didn’t approach anyone individually and ask “what are your pronouns?” or “what gender are you?” and I was doing it in a social rather than work context. If I don’t know someone’s “real” name, only a handle, saying “they or e/em/eir, please” doesn’t out them at work or to their family of origin as nonbinary.

          1. LouiseM*

            Absolutely! Not everyone is comfortable being out at work for so many reasons–the idea is for the facilitator to model sharing pronouns so those who are comfortable feel they have an opening to do so.

  22. Indoor Cat*

    OP 1. Hooooly no. I’d’ve walked out. 100% .

    If I was feeling assertive (or if I was never going to see the facilitating director again), I might say, “[Director], I’m not sure if you’ve thought about it this way, but what you’re asking is inappropriate, and even cruel. At minimum, I’m not going to participate. I recommend that you reel this question back in now and we roll with something kinder. What are people’s favorite movies? Has anyone seen any good dogs lately?”

    But, my anxiety might’ve just gotten the best of me in that kind of situation and I’d bail without saying anything.

    Regarding good icebreakers: at parties where different friend groups are blended, I’ve found three good conversation starters: “What’s the worst weather you’ve ever been caught in?” “Do you have / want to have any pets?” or whichever kind of media thing they seem most likely to like (fave book / album / film / tv show / webcomic / avant garde dance project). But, at work, it really ought to be something related to the workshop.

    OP 2. You have all my sympathy. Your workplace is trying to CYA and probably avoid a lawsuit due to their clearly already broken desks. Your co-worker is being a jerk, although I empathize with the way pain makes people angry or selfish; but, having been there and made the bad choice to lash out at someone who wasn’t at fault when I was in pain, I still feel regret. Hopefully when your co-worker starts to heal, they’ll realize they reacted harshly in refusing to accept your apology and will apologize themselves.

    But, even if they don’t, forgive yourself. Not because you actually did anything objectively wrong, but because you still feel embarrassed. When I’ve felt embarrassed and people told me the thing wasn’t actually embarrassing, nobody blames me, etc, I still couldn’t move on until I mentally forgave myself. The opposite of harm is help, and the opposite of shame is pride; so let yourself be proud of the ways you help people, or are kind and generous, or the good that you do. It will balance out.

    OP 3. No advice, just empathy and good vibes. This sucks, but you got this!

    OP 4. Alison’s right. She’s being weirdly passive-aggressive, but you can combat passive-aggressive with being direct. Good luck.

    1. Slow Gin Lizz*

      “Has anyone seen any good dogs lately?” That’s brilliant! And I saw a really pretty one on my way into work this morning, so I could even answer it!

      1. Anonymous Ampersand*

        We have had “cat person or dog person?” in a team meeting. Some people were one, some both, some neither. It was fine!

      2. Indoor Cat*

        Yes!

        The friendliest, most outgoing person I know asks this if there’s an awkward lull in a conversation, and it always works.

  23. LizM*

    Icebreakers can be useful for meetings where the group will actually need to interact and work together. I used to hate them, but since becoming a facilitator for several groups in my organization, I’m starting to realize their value. Our groups really do a better job interacting if you start off with an ice breaker or team builder, especially if it’s the first time meeting, or they only meet quarterly or less and are normally in different geographic locations.

    One of my favorites for bigger groups is to break into small groups (5 or 6 people, no more than 8), and have the group come up with 3 things they have in common. Then they share those with the large group. Two truths and a lie is another fun one. If you can have movement, I’ve done one where people write the answer to 3 questions (fav color, Alma mater, etc) on a piece of paper and have a “snowball fight” where they throw it into the middle of the room, the pick one up and try to find the person who wrote it. At least one question can be related to the topic.

    Good ice breakers (1) let people decide how much detail to go into so introverts aren’t forced into over sharing, (2) get people talking about the purpose of the meeting, even if in a round about way, and (3) are somewhat interactive so that people aren’t just listening as you go around in a circle. The ice breaker described by OP1 sounds awful.

    1. Birch*

      I really like the small groups finding things in common. It’s not too personal, and for people who are uncomfortable speaking in front of large groups, makes it less stressful to share.

      1. LizM*

        I’m a strong introvert, so when I facilitate or conduct trainings, I try to design a meeting that gives introverts an opportunity to participate too. Small groups, having a clear agenda with prompts to start thinking about topics, and giving a few minutes with discussion questions are my main go tos.

      2. periwinkle*

        The facilitator of a program I supported would have teams come up with 10 items, not just three, and that’s a real challenge. We’d see lots of “we all have noses” types of answers, but sometimes a group would either dig deep to find subtler similarities or would get creative, or just make up almost-plausible answers. That was a fun icebreaker for teams which would have to work together throughout the week.

        The icebreaker I like to use: if someone were visiting your city or hometown, what’s the one thing they really should go see or do?

    2. LizB*

      My organization does one I like that’s similar to the things-in-common one. One person gets up and says a fact about themselves. Another person who has whatever they shared in common stands up and stands next to them (or links arms, sometimes), then shares another fact about themselves. A third person who relates to that fact links on, shares their own fact, and on until the whole group is part of the chain.

      So, it might be:
      I’m Alex, and I have a cat.
      I’m Barbara, I also have a cat, and I like chocolate ice cream better than vanilla.
      I’m Chris, I also like chocolate better than vanilla, and I was born in another state.
      etc. etc.

    3. Little Bean*

      Oooh, I like all of those ice breakers. I agree, icebreakers are useful in situations where people don’t know each other and need to work together, or where the whole purpose of the meeting is for people to get to know each other like at an orientation. I was an orientation leader in college, so I would get groups of 8-12 freshmen who didn’t know anyone and had to then spend 3 straight days together. Even for that, our icebreakers were only supposed to be 10-15 minutes! My go-to was having them chat in pairs or trios, and then introduce their partner to the group.

  24. nutella fitzgerald*

    Is it normal for memos about office policies (like LW 2 mentions) to name names? Every time one goes out at my work everyone is buzzing about who must have messed up for us all to be reminded that you can’t sell meth while on the clock or whatever.

    1. EMW*

      Typically when it involves an injury you are not supposed to include the injured workers name. I can’t remember if there is an actual law on this or if it’s just an HR strategy.

    2. SoCalHR*

      I definitely don’t think its normal to name names, even if the incident was smaller/resulted in less of an injury. Either everyone already knows what happened (so names aren’t required) or people don’t need to know if they don’t already. That is just bad execution of a memo. Even sending a memo like this after an incident just breeds drama, but sometimes its necessary.

    1. anon with feelings*

      Was this the comment noting that Mon had to be constantly aware of their weight on various furniture?

      I don’t recall it being unkind in anyway — just pointing out that most furniture isn’t made to withstand 250+ lbs of weight. Unless I missed something in the original comment, I definitely feel a (not good) way about moderation being used to remove this comment.

      2. Kathletta*

        I didn’t think it was unkind either. I think some of the off topic comments at the top accusing the coworker of being a liar are far more unkind.

        1. anon with feelings*

          Yes. And I remember re-reading the comment because it was nice to see a comment that essentially boiled down to ‘at 350 you should be extra careful about the furniture you lean on’

          I thought it would be on the line of moderation but REALLY didn’t think it escalated to that, because it wasn’t an attack on the OP or obese people. But I guess acknowledging that people need to be aware of their body movements, and obese people have more considerations to make is … unkind.

          1. myswtghst*

            Just FYI – As a fat person, I am *always* aware of my body, how I move, and how I interact with furniture, because I am often concerned about whether or not I can fit in that chair or if it will bear my weight. And I know I’m not alone in that, so I fail to see the value in “reminding” fat people that we’re fat, as if society doesn’t already do that in a million small ways every single day.

            3. Mon*

              What I actually said was that as someone who is over 250 myself I am also aware that I’m near the limit of what some chairs will support.

  26. Akcipitrokulo*

    Icebreakers are not great, but sometimes necessary evil. One I was at that seemed to work was splitting class into 4 groups of 3/4, taking about 10 minutes to find out something in common and something unique to all of us and, if time, do a quick sketch to show other groups or just explain. Nothing too personal (things like “we all like prosecco” or “I make wedding cakes”), actually had people talking and didn’t last long.

    But I found the first activity we had to do worked better anyway as we were interacting to do it. So meh.

      1. Hornswoggler*

        That’s great – I’m nicking that. It’s a bit like my favourite ice-breaker, to use when people mostly don’t know each other.
        I ask them to pair up and find out at least three things about the other person’s work. They get a minute each. Then I ask them to introduce their partner – “This is Frederica and she works in a team of three people logging teapot orders. She has to interact with customers a lot.”
        One advantage of this is that you don’t get the person who says “I’m Frederica and I …. and then talks for 14 minutes about her customer relations philosophy in relations to teapot orders before moving on to her life philosophy and the name of her personal yoga teacher.

        1. nonymous*

          Be careful on this one. I was in a partner introduce session at a volunteer training event and the person I was paired up with gushed about my graduate degree. It made me sound like a super-snob when in reality the convo was more like “Why were you in X state? grad school.” smashed up against “where do you work?” and then 10 minutes of talking about woodworking (the prompts were: job, states had you lived in and hobby) . I think about a third of the people in the room had kids with advanced degrees so it really wasn’t abnormal, it just made me come across as a snooty jacka-s to the rest of the room. For context my partner was a self-employed IT consultant, which I think is way harder than holding down a 9-5 job.

          1. Indoor Cat*

            Aw. I mean, I can see how it might feel awkward being gushed about when you don’t find your degree impressive, but I’m sure nobody else in the room thought you came across as snooty. Honestly, I’d figure your partner was just a bit of an excitable type.

    2. Chocolate lover*

      I admit, I’ve agreed to things on common just to end the activity faster. I really do see the potential value of ice breakers, but I’ve yet to experience any that made me any more comfortable working with someone I’ve just met. For me, that happens over time, interacting with someone on a repeated basis.

    3. Lauren*

      As an introvert, I don’t like having to stand up and present anything. Innocuous details are better as well as this group idea.

      Bad = The truth vs. lie game is so weird. Take 3 playing cards, hearts – tell us your fave band (i’m partially deaf) / if you get a joker – tell us a joke / etc. Telephone game via miming a phrase to one person, that person mimes to next person, and last in the group guesses the phrase (I seriously thought about quitting that day).

      Good = State your name, title, and 3 of your favorite Halloween costumes as a kid.

  27. EG*

    My favorite icebreaker I’ve used is: Tell us about what you dreamed you’d grow up to be when you were kid. It’s pretty light, people have license to go funny or serious, and it’s appropriate for a work / educational setting and with varied ages. Doesn’t really invite a long soliloquy.

    1. Hellanon*

      We did a whole costume party on that theme! “What did you want to be when you grew up” – it was great fun getting everyone to tell those stories.

    2. Squeeble*

      I like that one!

      A few years ago I facilitated one where everyone wrote the weirdest job they’d ever had on a slip of paper, we put them all in a bowl, and then read each one out loud and tried to guess whose was whose. It was pretty fun–most of them turned out to be odd jobs people had held in high school and college that we could all laugh about.

    3. Gorgo*

      In big groups, I’ve always liked “tell us what your name means.” And the Sarah can say that her name means “princess” and people are a little more likely to remember it.

  28. Sylvan*

    1. Nope, no thank you. What a weird icebreaker.

    2. I think you’re doing everything right that you can at this point. I actually disagree with Alison that he is a jerk, though. He’s been through a lot of pain and his anger is understandable right now. Give him time.

  29. Akcipitrokulo*

    I think for the scar icebreaker I’d describe how I got the scar on my hand while tracking a lost yeti through the Highlands of Scotland and then nicked myself on a knife when I caught up with them and served cake.

    1. Jessen*

      I like it. I’ve heard similar suggestions for dealing with people who are just being nosy. It’s a fun way to communicate “this is none of your business.”

    2. tangerineRose*

      Now I want to know what flavor of cake a yeti likes :) Or at least what kind of cake that yeti likes – different yeti might have different tastes.

      1. Akcipitrokulo*

        The haggis I rescued from the trap on the way claimed Yetis like Dundee cake, but I’m not sure about that. He flicked the almonds at me.

  30. kiwikiwi*

    I once attended a multi-day workshop where the icebreaker was sharing something about yourself others were unlikely to know, and we wrote them on paper and drew them out of a hat and tried to guess who it was. It was pretty fun because a) it got people talking and b) we did a few at the start but then spaced them out a bit, so that whenever people were losing focus or as people were straggling back in from breaks we’d do one or two more. It worked really well – most people put things from the distant past, or uncommon hobbies, and if you really didn’t want to participate it wouldn’t have been very noticeable if you didn’t put one in. Totally off-topic but in that context it worked well.

    I agree that in shorter sessions like OP1’s a more relevant and functional question would make sense, though, emotional scars are definitely off-limits!

  31. Loose Seal*

    I was at a training where the icebreaker was that everyone had to take off their shoes and pile them up in the center of the room. Then everyone was blindfolded. You had to crawl around the pile of shoes looking for the ones your teammates were describing. By feel, in case that wasn’t clear, in a pile of used shoes still warm from the foot that had so recently been in them.

    I was lucky that I had just had knee surgery and was unable to crawl around on the floor so I was excused. That didn’t stop me from being almost ill watching it from the sidelines.

    Do I win?

    4. Summer*

      Oooooooh my god. That would have traumatized me. We did something similar when I was in kindergarten, and I thought it was gross then too…

    6. Falling Diphthong*

      My puppy would LOVE this.

      Not that anyone would get their shoes back, but he would have a great time.

    10. PhyllisB*

      This reminds me of a story my step-father told me. He and his cronies were at a hunting camp and playing cards when one of them got the bright idea for them to all throw their dentures in a pile, mix them up and then try to find the ones that belong to you. YECHHHHHHHHHHH!!! He thought my disgust was uproariously funny.

      1. Kelly L.*

        Ew!

        We did “pass your glasses around and let’s see how badly we all see” in a group of about 8 friends once in college. There was only one of us who wore none at all–we were a very myopic (and presbyopic, and strabismic…) bunch!

  32. Sami*

    An icebreaker I liked a few years ago during a back to school teacher meeting was asking the faculty what they’re first (or just a previous) job was. Obviously we all ended up as teachers, but it was interesting to find out the paths some people took. Even with a large group, it was quick and fun.

    2. Sam.*

      My old boss used something like, “When you were a kid, what did you want to be when you grew up?” or “What is your dream job?” with the college students we worked with. She was going for more whimsical and interesting things than, “I want to work in consulting,” so she always started and gave “captain of the Starship Enterprise” as her dream job. I do not enjoy ice breakers, but this one seemed to work relatively well because it was pretty light-hearted, not too invasive, and got some fun answers.

    3. Muriel Heslop*

      I’m a teacher and we have done this one, too – I like it a lot.

      I’m learning from this thread that most of the icebreakers I’ve been subjected to in education are definitely among the best. Some of them are so weird!

  33. Annony*

    OP#1 – I’m screaming. I think that icebreaker would have GIVEN me an emotional scar.

    Worst icebreaker I had to deal with? Less bad than that. “Tell us the most embarrassing thing that’s ever happened to you.” This came up more than once in different team activities in college. The act of telling ANY embarrassing story as a way to introduce myself to a bunch of other 18-20+ somethings when I was 18-20 was even more embarrassing than any of the stories I told. :( And of course I didn’t pick The Most embarrassing thing, just something bad Enough. I’m so jaded towards icebreakers now.

    Also? Icebreakers for groups of 50+ people should be banned.

    1. Bryce*

      Even just trying to *think* of what would classify of my most embarrassing moment would have me whimpering in a corner. I have a very emotional memory, looking back at such things in a situation I’d already be feeling anxiety would amplify everything.

      1. Penny Lane*

        You don’t have to take it so literally. You could just describe AN embarrassing moment — no one will know that it’s not THE most embarrassing moment ever in your life. (Though I’m not a fan of this one in general.)

        I’m amused that people think name, job title and what you want to get from this workshop are “icebreakers.” Uh – no. An icebreaker specifically gets you to reveal something personal. It could be light (I was born in Alaska, I know how to juggle, I once met Madonna, my favorite flavor is butterscotch) but the whole point is that it breaks down barriers in a way that “I’m hoping to learn more about how to do TPS reports more efficiently” doesn’t.

        1. Guacamole Bob*

          I think part of where that comes from is that people are tired of being subjected to ice breakers in situations where they aren’t really needed. Basic introductions and what you want to get from the workshop is probably enough in the context of most work training sessions, without any real ice breakers. If I’m in a workshop to learn how a new process or piece of software works and I’m never going to see the rest of the participants again, what does it matter if we break down barriers between us?

          Ice breakers definitely have a purpose and a place, but mostly they’re best left to longer events where people are going to be required to communicate and collaborate with each other (not just receive one-way training), off-site retreat-type events, sessions in more personal contexts or where instant teamwork is vital (see the reference above to emergency services type workplaces, or the typical ice breaker context of moving into a college dorm), etc.

          1. fposte*

            Yes, that’s my thought. Icebreaker activities have become needlessly popular in situations where they’re not appropriate–where either there’s no ice or it doesn’t matter if there’s ice.

            1. Myrin*

              I feel the same. I think there are many people who can’t stand the thought of there even hypothetically being ice and then act accordingly. It’s a very “People mustn’t have negative feelings towards anyone lest there be DEATH and DESTRUCTION” mindset.

              1. fposte*

                Or session leaders have this ideal of a group of people turning into a happy, laughing, and unified team forevermore–which is about their wanting to have an impact more than about the actual workplace experience.

            2. HannahS*

              YES! If I’m taking a CPR recertification course, all I need in terms of an introduction to form a pleasantly professional relationship over the course of the day is “Hello, my name is Sarah, I’m a 4th-year nursing student” and I can go, “Cool! What kinds of nursing are you planning on going into?” and then we spend a pleasant few hours not chatting about our childhoods, past traumas, and medical histories.

        2. Observer*

          Well, that’s ONE definition of an ice breaker. It’s also a particularly useless one. There are very few professional meetings such as workshops etc. where getting to know personal stuff about other people is going to be helpful.

        3. Minerva McGonagall*

          I’m having trouble not responding to snark with snark. Here goes.

          If I am in a professional setting, and I’ve gone to a seminar because I’m interested in learning more about TPS report efficiency (one of 10 items on the agenda), I do want to know that Jane from ABC and Bob from XYZ also have an interest, related to their personal professional development, in learning more about preparing TPS reports efficiently.

          Knowing this breaks down barriers in two ways. It makes me more comfortable asking questions on the topic, as I know others are also interested in the answer. Second, I can go find Jane and Bob at lunch and suggest we sit together so we can talk about streamlining TPS reports while we eat.

          If I just sit with the folks who have visited Alaska, but don’t share my professional interests, I’ve lost out on an incredibly valuable networking opportunity.

    3. Clewgarnet*

      Our group leader gave us that when I was on a camel trek in Jordan. He decided to do this after we’d spent three days in the desert with us, our camels, and some Bedouin guides, so the ice was well and truly broken by that point.

      1. fposte*

        I read this several times before I realized the icebreaker wasn’t to pretend you were on a camel trek in Jordan. I think that whole experience would be inherently ice-breaking.

    4. Guacamole Bob*

      There’s an event series in my industry that’s pretty freewheeling (it’s labelled an “unconference”) and attended by a pretty wide range of professionals, students, community members, etc. Typically they do go around the room for introductions, but it’s your name and three words. No affiliations or titles or anything, just three words. It’s still a bit tedious to have 150 people introduce themselves, but it works pretty well and you get a sense of the different interests of the participants and can note who to seek out later. Enough people manage to be funny with it that it’s pretty lively and quick-moving. Also inevitably people from startups will choose three words like “we are hiring,” which serves a useful role in letting people who are job hunting know who to go talk to.

    5. SarahTheEntwife*

      UGH. I would actually find the secondhand embarrassment of listening to everyone else’s horrible stories worse than trying to come up with my own.

    6. PhyllisB*

      My youngest daughter could give a really weird reply to that one. When she was two years old she informed me that when she grew up, she wanted to be a bathroom(????) She’s 30 now and no one in the family has ever let her forget it. A few years ago, her son told me when he grew up he wanted to be a dog.

    7. Misquoted*

      Awful. And I say this as an extrovert who likes ice-breakers and team-building activities.

      The point of an ice-breaker is to help coworkers get to know each other a bit, in order to build some trust and a level of comfort for the coming event/meeting/activity/training. Sharing or hearing about some uncomfortable situation in your coworkers’ lives does nothing to further that trust or comfort level. Just because I’ve been pressured into sharing something personal does not mean I trust anyone in the room. An ice-breaker topic should be interesting, funny, or useful.

      I have facilitated group activities/meetings for 50+ participants, and we’ve done what we call “check-ins” and “check-outs”, which (for large groups like this) are often things like “choose one word to describe how you are feeling about today’s activity/meeting/training” and then we go around the room/circle and everyone says one word. Takes two minutes. We’ve often then done the same thing at the end, and hearing the difference in type of words is useful to the facilitators and maybe the group, too.

      1. Xarcady*

        “Just because I’ve been pressured into sharing something personal does not mean I trust anyone in the room. ”

        To be honest, being pressured into “sharing*” something personal in a group of relative strangers has meant that I loose all trust in the person(s) running the event. Because I see no reason to tell strangers personal information about me, and the decision to use such an ice-breaker indicates that they made a bad decision at the start.

        Mostly, I end up lying in ice-breakers. But then it becomes a struggle to remember the lie, because someone will remember it and bring it up a year later.

        *Oh, how I dislike the use of the word “sharing” as part of an ice-breaker. I am not “sharing;” I’m telling you something. Nothing to share. Nope, no way.

  34. Massmatt*

    #4 so often the answer is stop hinting or being indirect and say what you mean—tell her to stop! At first, firmly and politely. From there your reply could escalate to “Hmm, looking at job postings again, sounds like you don’t have enough work to do!” And if it continues cc your boss on the replies, even most loons would back down after that.

  35. Agatha_31*

    #4, Alison already gave you great advice, but on a side note, have you ever read Emma by Jane Austen? Because I swear your co-workers behavior toward you is reminding me so hard of the scenes between Mrs. Elton and Jane Fairfax.

  36. namelesscommentator*

    It’s incredibly unkind to call the coworker a jerk for not accepting an apology when they are likely facing long-term professional and personal consequences for this.

    1. Alice*

      It reminds me of the bird phobia/car accident letter. I remember someone said “it’s not a good look” for the injured party in that case to explain that she left a job after being injured as a result of a colleague’s terror at seeing a bird. Lots of people here expect the injured party to do a lot of emotional labor.

      1. Sam.*

        I think this different, though. It was a genuine accident and the person who caused the incident was apologetic (without being prompted by HR!) and clearly felt horribly. That was very much not the case with the bird/car situation. I didn’t blame that woman for being incredibly angry. In this instance, I understand being frustrated at the situation, but I think it’s much harder to justify anger at LW unless there’s more to the situation we don’t know about (like the coworker had tried to convince them to drop off the papers to be signed and were annoyed that they were hovering in the first place.)

        1. Marie B.*

          Actually Jack (the pusher) apologized only once, when HR made him do it. Ask if He also phoned the person he pushed several times while she was in the hospital recovering from surgery and at home recovering to ask when she was coming back to work (not to apologize or ask if she needed anything). She had to get a lawyer involved to get his phone calls to stop. According to the letter writer Jack never showed or said he felt any remorse to Liz.

          1. tangerineRose*

            And she got pushed in front of a moving car. I still don’t quite understand why Jack had to push her when he was scared – were all other available ways to move blocked?

            I felt angry when people were annoyed that she was angry. At the time, it must have felt like her co-worker just tried to kill her, for no reason at all. Then she got to deal with all of the trauma of her injuries, and there seemed to be nothing done to prevent something like that from happening again.

        2. Viki*

          Honestly, it depends on how long it’s been since the break happened and what the coworker had going on in their lives. My then boyfriend broke my toe a week before we were going away for a cruise, which in hindsight isn’t bad but meant I couldn’t wear any of the cute heel sandals I wanted because of doctor’s orders. I was very angry about that. No it doesn’t make sense, but that was my headspace for something as stupid as my toes.

          Breaking your femur because someone else accidentally broke your desk? I’d be mad at everyone involved and not want to accept any apologize for some time.

          1. Susan Sto Helit*

            Personally, I find it preferable to just accept an apology after an accident in most situations. It’s not about them, it’s about me – and holding on to anger is just not a particularly productive emotion. Plus, it’s tiring.

            If you’ve been injured you generally want some form of redress – either in the form of compensation, or punishment. If it’s something like a car accident, you might get that. But if it’s a genuine accident in a lot of other circumstances, like the one you describe, you probably won’t. So accepting it, and moving on to dealing with the situation is my preferred response.

            It’s really human to want someone to blame, but at the end of the day sometimes we’re just unlucky.

            1. Trout 'Waver*

              Personally, I don’t care about any of that. If someone else’s negligence hurts me, I want to know how they’re going to make sure their negligence doesn’t hurt me or anyone else going forward.

              Putting one’s full body weight on a desk rated for 100 pounds is negligence regardless of the weight of the person.

              1. fposte*

                If you know the desk is only rated for 100 lbs, perhaps. But I don’t see any reason why the OP should have known this. (She also didn’t put her full body weight on it.)

                1. Little Bean*

                  I honestly don’t see how anyone could know this. I just tried it – I weigh a little over 100 pounds and I just sat on my desk, putting my full body weight on it, plus the existing weight of all my equipment already on it (a laptop, monitor, printer, 2 speakers and textbook) and it was completely fine. It didn’t shake, bend or seem unsteady in any way.

              2. tangerineRose*

                People lean on or sit on desks all the time. I think it’s more negligent to buy or produce a desk for a adults that can’t handle a fair bit of weight.

        3. Tuxedo Cat*

          I think the bird story was an accident, too. The guy did deliberately push her, but it struck me more as a reaction than him thinking it through.

          The big issue with that letter was how things were handled in the aftermath. I don’t think Jack came off as sorry at all, even once his encounter with the bird was over. I can understand why the injured party in OP2 might not have accepted an apology immediately, but OP2 was at least apologetic.

          1. Delphine*

            Yes, but pushing someone in front of a car is more clearly dangerous than leaning against a desk.

      2. Thlayli*

        Yes. I think one of the reasons the Bird thread blew up so much is because the very first comment was criticising Liz. It was extremely victim-blamy. Some of the comments above are also victim-blaming IMO. Alison has noted above that she didn’t realise how serious an injury a broken femur is, and I hope the other commenters being mean about the victim are also unaware of the fact that this is a very severe injury.

        But then again, the kind of people who would criticise a woman for not wanting to work with a man who pushed her under a car probably would criticise someone who didn’t want to accept the apology of someone who caused them a potentially fatal injury. So perhaps they are well aware of how dangerous it is but they just don’t really care about the victims feelings.

        1. Sylvan*

          I agree with you here.

          I think sometimes we want to see a “good guy” and a “bad guy” in a situation, and we pick the person we empathize with most as the “good guy.” We pick the person who’s insecure about their body, or who has a phobia, or who has something difficult happening in their personal life.

          When there isn’t really a good or bad person, and some bad shit just happened between two people? This kind of judgment works out really poorly for the person who isn’t granted the “good guy” label.

          1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

            I think folks on both sides of both of these are falling into the “good guy”/”bad guy” trap. In both scenarios, there are no bad guys. Accidents don’t require a bad guy. It’s just bad luck. It’s terrible to be the person injured by an accident, but it doesn’t mean that the person who caused the accident is bad.

            1. kb*

              I agree, but I think it’s understandable that people adversely affected by an accident don’t immediately get to that mindset, especially when the damage inflicted is large. I don’t know the timing of when this apology wasn’t accepted, but it’s possible the injured coworker had a lot of bad stuff on his plate when the OP apologized and will be more forgiving as they have time to process. The OP shouldn’t feel bad though– definitely the furniture’s fault.

              1. Trout 'Waver*

                How can it possibly be the furniture’s fault? Either you shouldn’t sit on desks, you should buy desks that can be sat upon, or the furniture wasn’t built to spec.

                1. Thlayli*

                  Actually OP said that an email was sent round “reminding” people not to sit on desks. So it seems like there was an actual rule about not sitting on desks in the first place.

                2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

                  C’mon, Thlayli, you must realize that you’re reaching here.

                  First, language isn’t always used precisely. A “reminder” doesn’t necessarily follow an initial statement of policy.

                  Second, I’d find it difficult to believe that you (or any of us) have never done something that was against office policy. It’s not the end of the world, and we shouldn’t be shamed for doing something that we can reasonably expect to be harmless (even if it turns out has a terrible impact on someone). Have you never printed a personal document at work? Used the internet even though your employee manual says that work computers are for work only?

            2. Trout 'Waver*

              I don’t like the words bad guy/good guy, but in both cases there is a negligent person. Is it really an accident if it’s a foreseeable but uncommon result from an unsafe behavior?

              1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

                In neither case was someone negligent. In one case, a person walked on the sidewalk next to colleagues. In another case, someone leaned on a desk. These are normal human behaviors.

                We don’t ask each other to do everything they could possibly do avoid harming someone else. If we did, nobody could, for example, drive anywhere (way more dangerous than a fat person leaning on a desk or a phobic person walking on a sidewalk).

                1. Trout 'Waver*

                  Come on. You’re leaving out the key information. In the first case, the person walking on the sidewalk with his colleagues knew that he had a severe phobia for which he intentionally did not seek treatment and knew that it was possible, even likely, that his trigger would be present in that environment.

                  In the present case, the desk was only rated for 100 pounds. If you sit or heavily lean on furniture not meant to be sat or heavily leaned against, it might collapse, potentially injuring you or someone else. This is not news to anyone.

                2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

                  No, I’m using the information I believe is relevant.

                  I’d forgotten that the bird guy wasn’t in treatment, and that does give him more culpability. But walking across the parking lot literally cannot be avoided, and we have no idea whether he could predict the extent of his physical reaction. IIRC, the bird swooped near him and nearly touched him; it’s entirely possible that had never happened to him before (it’s never happened to me, for example) and he didn’t realize that he would have such a strong physical reaction. (I’ll admit that I didn’t read everyone one of the thousands of comments on those posts, so I may be missing some context that was later shared by the OP.)

                  In today’s post, the OP didn’t know that the desk was rated to such a low weight until after the incident, and we do not typically expect people to investigate and memorize the weight restrictions for every piece of furniture or equipment that they encounter. I’d be surprised to discover that you (or any of us) has never leaned on something without doing our due diligence.

                3. Kb*

                  @Trout ‘Waver
                  I don’t think most people are aware of what weight their desks are rated for. I agree that people generally shouldn’t sit on their desks or tables because they aren’t designed for that, but leaning against desks (intentionally like the OP or to catch your balance) is so common that I’d consider it normal usage. As Victoria said, yes, there are always things you can do to be immensely careful about every action, but if you tried to do that for literally everything, nothing would ever get done. People have to be able to assume that the objects they are using will work for normal usage.

                4. Trout 'Waver*

                  @Victoria

                  I view the present case kinda like I view speeding. Just about everyone speeds. The vast majority of times it doesn’t cause any harm. Most people who speed can tell whether it’s safe to do so or not. However, if someone chooses to speed and it does impact someone else in the form of an automobile crash, the person speeding is negligent. Both in a legal and a moral sense of the word.

                  I know its an imperfect analogy, but I hope it shows where I’m at on this one.

                5. tangerineRose*

                  For the speeding analogy, I think that’s somewhat limited. I think most of us will blame someone who is going 90 on a 55 mph for an accident much more than someone who is driving 60 mph on the same road. The way most people drive, 60 mph might actually be safer.

          2. kb*

            Yes! I think once you hear someone’s perspective or get to know them in a favorable way, it’s easy to saddle the bad feelings on the person whose perspective you aren’t hearing. But if you heard both sides, you’d probably feel bad for both sides. Maybe the person with the broken femur had a once-in-a-lifetime hiking trip in Norway planned and OP apologized right after they realized they needed to cancel. I think we all like to think we’d be the bigger person who immediately forgives, but truthfully most people need some time to simmer down.

            1. kb*

              To be clear, this was a freak accident and the OP was not at fault– desks that cannot accommodate a lean from a person are not properly designed desks.

    2. Jaguar*

      I would like to jump in on this and suggest that the co-worker is potentially a jerk. This is really a response to the collection of posters taking the nobody-is-entitled-to-their-apology-being-accepted line, not you specifically, nameless.

      As you say, the coworker has been badly injured from a chain of events the OP initiated – I’ll leave apart blame here since I think the table is most to blame. In the immediacy of that, I can totally understand being angry at the OP. The conditions of when and how the OP apologized dramatically affect things here and maybe, given more time for the dust to settle, the coworker will accept OP’s apology. However, if the coworker forever holds an accident against the OP, there is something wrong with that. I think the healthy thing to think about the coworker is pity, not that they’re a jerk, but it’s nevertheless not a neutral or, I would argue, admirable thing to blame someone for an accident. If something bad happens to someone, I think their best recourse as a general rule is to try and move past it. Forever blaming OP would be to sink into a pitiful victimhood situation. Certainly that can happen and people can find it impossible to move past that, but that’s pitiable, not enviable. This framing might not help lessen OP’s emotional load from this incident, but it could help better contextualize it.

      I disagree that not accepting OP’s apology (if the coworker forever doesn’t accept it) is perfectly normal. It’s pitiful and pathetic and the OP should feel that for the coworker if they can’t put this behind them, not shame for what happened.

      1. Viki*

        I disagree that not accepting an apology is pitiful and pathetic.

        There is nothing wrong with not accepting an apology for whatever reason. They may not make sense to us, from the outside but for the person who is given the apology, it is perfectly valid to them. Calling them pitiful and pathetic is rude and unkind, and not needed here.

  37. Loose Seal*

    The best icebreaker I’ve ever been a part of was that we were asked to share something about our name. It could be about your first name, middle name(s), name of origin, current last name(s), nicknames, anything that you wanted to share. A lot of people told a story about whom they were named after while others talked about deciding on which name to use after marriage.

    What I liked about this icebreaker was that it included everyone, was not physical, and was not embarrassing because you controlled your narrative. Plus, we really did learn everyone’s names quickly!

    4. Sam.*

      I think this is one of those examples that proves there’s no ice breaker that’s going to satisfy everyone. In theory, this would be interesting to me, but I have literally nothing exciting to say about any of my names, so my mental reaction to this ice breaker would be a resounding, “Ugh!” just as it is with most other ice breakers.

      1. Penny Lane*

        For most people it’s simply going to be “my parents liked the name” with no story. Not very compelling.

        1. Sylvan*

          My parents knew a few people with my name who were nice. I’m sorta named after four or five people my parents weren’t very close to, but liked. True story. Fascinating, I know.

          1. Myrin*

            I actually find that unironically fascinating. I’d love to get to hear such a story during an icebreaker thingy like Loose Seal suggested.

      2. Emilie*

        I think that “Actually, I don’t really know if I’m named after someone. How about you?” is a fine answer to this ice breaker. Which makes it a great ice breaker, since it leaves a nice and polite way of opting out for people who don’t really enjoy ice breakers.

        I don’t personally enjoy ice breakers that much, so I’m always looking at them in a “can I answer this, without really answering this, and get it over with?” sort of way.

      3. Indoor Cat*

        Funny story about my (irl) name: it is consistently in the top three most popular names for female dogs. Every year. So often when I introduce myself– I’d say at least 50% of the time!– someone’s first reaction is, “Oh, my dog is named [your name]!” Or a dog they used to have, or their friend’s dog, etc.

        It started happening when I was in grade school, so I looked it up then. Keeps being a popular dog name 15 years later. I love dogs so I think it’s pretty funny, but when my mom started to catch on (by the time I was in college) she was pretty annoyed. I remember her saying, “I read so many baby name books and nobody mentioned this could happen!” Which I also found funny. It is impossible to name your baby well. There are inevitably unforeseen outcomes with whichever name you choose.

        Otherwise, though, my name isn’t that interesting.

    5. Susan Sto Helit*

      In my first year of high school, the very first drama lesson was the teacher getting everyone to sit in a circle and then he kicked off by accompanying his name with an action, and acting it out (‘basketball with Baxter’). The person sitting next to him had to do the same thing with their own name, then repeat his (‘laughing with Laura, and basketball with Baxter’). Repeat until you complete the circle, and the poor last person is having to go round and do the entire group.

      It was only later that I realised it was a really smart name to learn the names of all the kids in the class, and help us learn each other’s too. Plus remembering that the action was, and that it alliterated, helped it stick in the mind.

  38. Blue Bird Yellow*

    I think icebreakers can work. Most of the time I’ve seen them used, they’re pretty low-key – a round of introductions if people in a group don’t know each other well, ‘tell us about a hobby’, that type of deal.

    I’ve once hosted a party where a lot of people didn’t know each other and I was afraid they would split into groups for the course of the evening. Which is why I wrote three extraordinary and funny things about each guest on a note (I asked them about it prior to the party). At the party, each guest picked a note and then had to find the person it belonged to. When I explained the icebreaker, they groaned at first, but I’ve honestly never seen a better one. They were talking animatedly with all of the other guests for the better part of an hour and had an ‘excuse’ to approach the other guests, and got to know them in the process… it was a great party after that.

    1. laylaaaaaaaah*

      Oh yeah, those are great! Also, giving out little cards with questions on (inane ones, like ‘last TV show you watched’, ‘favourite colour’, ‘favourite season’, etc) and they have to get the info from the most people possible in 5-10 minutes.

  39. Ruth (UK)*

    1. I think ice breakers are good as long as they’re not too personal and appropriate length compared to the session. For a 90min meeting I would probably leave it at “let’s all go round and introduce ourselves” (name and job title / department) and at a push maybe “..and say an interesting fact about ourselves”.

    I recently did an all day training course where most people didn’t know anyone at the start of the day. In a room of maybe 40 people. They gave us bingo cards with things on them like “ate toast for breakfast” and “has a pet cat” or “has seen The Last Jedi” (they were all quite simple things like that. Nothing really personal) and had to go about introducing ourselves to people to find a person for each of the squares on the card. There were 9 squares and not all cards were the same. They gave us 15mins and I think that was a good and appropriate ice breaker that got people talking including in small groups.

    But anything about personal or upsetting topics… I think that’s an obvious no-go!

    2. UK Nerd*

      I’ve done the bingo thing when I had to run a Toastmasters officer training. I had stuff like ‘someone who has the same committee role as you’ so everyone would meet someone who would be facing the same challenges as them, and ‘someone who’s been a member for over 10 years’ so that newer people would know who the experienced people were, along with the trivia questions. It got people talking and didn’t take long.

    3. Parenthetically*

      We did a bingo one for a class I took in high school — the teacher did it at the beginning of each semester and it was fascinating. I still remember almost 20 years later some of the things I learned about my classmates.

    4. Luna*

      I really, really hate the “say an interesting thing about yourself” icebreakers. Like, I don’t know I’m not that interesting? It feels like a cop out on the part of the organizer, they want to think they are doing some fun, bonding icebreaker while not actually putting in the effort to come up with one. Icebreakers shouldn’t be so restrictive that they make people share information they don’t want to share, but they also shouldn’t be so open and directionless that all the burden is put on the participants to figure out what to say.

    5. Kate*

      I had to do something like this for a college class, and one of the squares was, “Is an only child.” I remember someone asking me if I was an only child, and when I said no, he responded, “Really? You seem like an only child.” What does that mean?!?! But I prefer those types over the “say an interesting fact about yourself”. I mean, what if I’m just not that interesting?

    6. Chalupa Batman*

      I’ve done a bingo card with students. It had squares like “Really good at math,” “Understands APA format,” “Knows a reliable babysitter,” and “Lives close enough to give me a ride” (we’re a commuter campus, which means that ‘life happens’ is a leading cause of attrition). It was meant to demonstrate how networking helps with college success, but it made a great icebreaker, too. It helped students loosen up to be reminded, “oh yeah, she WAS in the same English class as me last fall…I guess I do know someone here.”

  40. Ace*

    I would also be pissed. I’m sure at some point I’d learn to forgive – but not before my poor leg healed!

    2. paul*

      Yeah. It’s not clear from the letter *when* OP apologized, and that plays a huge role in it. Like, if you called me up at the hospital or while I was still in a cast even after I’d returned, I probably wouldn’t be happy to hear from you; that stuff’s gotta hurt.

  41. AJ*

    #2 – While I agree that the facilities manager should take some of the blame, (I also think the manufacturer of the desk could/should even be at fault) and that sending an e-mail out naming the OP was incredibly insensitive/unnecessary/wrong

    ***rehashing the faultiness of the desk, telling the OP it wasn’t their fault, and (especially!!!) discussing how terrible a broken femur really is, is NOT helping the OP and is NOT what they asked for***

    The OP asked for advice on how they should act at work.

    I think it’s time to stop piling on with comments in shock/surprise that/how exactly the desk broke. Yes, these types of comments could be seen as support for the OP, but think about it – they have already heard these comments over and over from friends/family, potentially overheard coworkers who received the email discussing it, and have asked themself these questions many times.

    Yes, the desk broke.

    Alison suggested the OP try to act as normal as they can. Let’s think of ideas the OP might be able to use to move on and act normal at work.

    1. Sugarplum*

      +1
      I suggest the OP find little ways to distract themselves and change their routine at work. Rearrange the stuff on their desk, use a different building entrance, park in a different spot, etc. Sounds silly, but may help. Outside of work, joining a new Meetup group and/or some new hobby will bring positive things to think about. Best wishes.

    2. dr_silverware*

      Agreed.

      One other strategy is to start to be able to tell the story smoothly. Or at least figure out how you want to do so, so you can tell it to yourself smoothly. It’s an enormously painful event for you right now; but pretend you’re telling it in five years when you’re no longer feeling so raw, and you’ve forgiven yourself while still having sympathy for your coworker. What would that future you say about the story?

      With your current coworkers, it’s good to go about your daily business. But I think the gossip mill will be swirling. I think you don’t want it to be absent your perspective. So if it’s possible, don’t just never talk about it; ask after your coworker & show concern but if possible not guilt. You can say what you heard from the facilities manager to your work friends—“the facilities manager told me the desks can only hold 100 pounds. I guess kind of a straw that broke the camel’s back situation. I really hope coworker is doing all right.” This preferably in a calm tone even if you have to go collect yourself afterwards.

      And finally, this will leave you feeling very raw, and I’m sorry for that. Marshal all your after-work coping mechanisms right now.

      1. tangerineRose*

        I’d avoid saying “straw that broke the camel’s back situation”. It might result in unkind words from the co-workers.

    3. Thlayli*

      This is probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but perhaps OP might want to consider losing some weight?

      I’m not saying this is my opinion, but I can see some of OPs coworkers being of the opinion that the OPs weight is at fault in the injury, and OP losing some weight might make them more willing to forgive and forget. If they see the weight as the problem, losing weight would be “addressing the problem” as it were.

      Plus health benefits! So it’s a win-win.

      2. fposte*

        No. Not the point, won’t fix the desk, won’t fix the leg, won’t fix the situation.

      3. Falling Diphthong*

        Losing weight isn’t easy (or everyone experiencing negative consequences social or physical would just do it), and it’s also not very visible. 20 lbs is a big deal and takes a long time to lose, but the difference between a 275 lb and 295 lb person is just not apparent in yoga wear, much less business dress.

      4. Erin*

        I understand why you would go there, but I don’t think that’s for us to comment on. We don’t know his/her personal health situation. Also, the weight is not the problem.

        If I’m remembering correctly, there has been at least one letter writer on AAM who kept breaking chairs because of their weight and Alison indicated that the office needed to provide them a chair that would be adequate for them. It’s not the weight, it’s the office furniture.

        It’s really not up to us, their work, or anyone else to police someone’s weight.

      6. Parenthetically*

        “perhaps OP might want to consider losing some weight?”

        OK, I am really reining in some sarcastic comments here, but let’s just say: every fat person is constantly, constantly bombarded with “have you thought about losing weight?” OP knows she is fat. You are not her doctor. This line of reasoning is just spectacularly unhelpful.

        1. EmilyAnn*

          I have been fat from age 11-present. According to the BMI chart morbidly obese. Have lots of fat people in my social circles. No, we are not constantly bombarded with “have you thought about losing weight”. Not by my smaller friends, not by my acquaintances, not even by my doctor.

          1. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

            Oh right, and because it hasn’t happened to you, it can’t possibly have happened to anyone else either.

            1. EmilyAnn*

              You made it an absolute by saying “every”. I just was pointing out that your experience is not universal and may not apply to the original poster.

              1. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

                Nice try but I’m not Parenthetically, and given that you claimed in another comment that you did endure weight shaming and now you’re saying you haven’t, I call bullshit on you. Get your fat-shaming ass out of here.

                1. EmilyAnn*

                  I did not say “constantly bombarded” because that’s not the case. There were exactly 3 people in my life, none of whom lived near me. So no, I’m not a liar and you said “every”.

                3. Jessie the First (or second)*

                  No, Countess did not say “every.” Countess did not make the comment. Read the thread over again if it helps you understand.

                  In response to someone else who said “every” you responded with a “no, we aren’t!” which frankly makes it seems as if you are contesting that it is ever a thing that happens – and *that* attitude is what Countess is responding to. And since you said earlier that you have in fact been subjected to fat shaming, it seems like a weirdly disingenuous argument you’re making anyway. The whole point is – we can and should absolutely assume that the OP knows she is fat and knows that losing weight is a thing that can happen in the world. Given that, how on god’s green earth is it useful or kind or in any way anything other than obnoxious for random internet commenters to harp on and on about “hey, have you ever thought about losing weight?”

          2. Yorick*

            But I’m sure the idea of losing weight has occurred to you, and it wouldn’t be helpful if someone suggested it?

          3. Parenthetically*

            WTF even is this comment?

            First, the plural of “anecdote” is not “data.”

            Second, fat people (and I are one, FWIW) are relentlessly fat-shamed, told to lose weight, reminded they’re fat, asked if they’re sure they should be eating XYZ, given “tips” on weight loss or healthy eating or exercise, concern-trolled, accused of “glorifying obesity” if they dare to exist happily in public — by “friends,” media, strangers, medical personnel, and on and on. In some cases, like with medical personnel, the discrimination they face is a well-researched phenomenon that does quantifiable damage to fat people when their actual health concerns are brushed off as part of them “needing to lose weight.”

        2. RVA Cat*

          Exactly.
          What’s more helpful (that I’m sure the OP has also considered) is leaving this toxic fat-phobic workplace. Let’s look at the facts – the OP did something completely normal , it resulted in a serious accident due to substandard equipment, yet they are being weight-shamed over what seems to have been the company’s negligence.

      8. Justme, The OG*

        I didn’t realize that you were the OP’s doctor and they were asking you for weight loss advice. In any other situation, your comment is rude and uncalled for.

      9. nutella fitzgerald*

        Aside from the problems with this others have mentioned, I don’t think this would really help the OP’s immediate problem. In the months it would take to lose weight, things probably would have calmed down anyway.

      10. Tobias Funke*

        Wow I didn’t know losing weight healed other people’s injuries?????? This is a super interesting development!!!!

      11. Tobias Funke*

        Okay now that I’ve read the whole comment

        If you honestly think that it is on the OP and on other fat people to be as contrite about our fat as possible so that we can show we’re trying to not be fat in order for people to like us?

        think again

      12. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

        “I’m not saying this is my opinion” but to be honest, if you weren’t thinking it somewhere in the back of your head, you wouldn’t be saying it. Give me a break.

        “Maybe consider losing some weight” is the most fucking inane comment to make to ANYONE, and particularly anyone of size. Do you think the OP has not considered it? Do you really think that “hey, I would like to maybe weigh less” has NEVER, EVER floated through the OP’s mind?

        Come the hell on, dude.

      13. EmilyAnn*

        I am so confused. How is telling a 350 lb person to lose weight a bad thing? People write in for advice for the situation and get advice for steps in the future they could take to avoid the same situation from happening again. What’s the difference here?

        1. fposte*

          Then this is some important information here for you: telling people what to do with their bodies when they didn’t ask for advice about it is rude. It doesn’t matter if you’re saying “By the way, here’s what to do for your horrible acne” or “This makeup will minimize your wrinkles, co-worker I only see in the bathroom” or “You should have more sex and you’d be less uptight, poster on AAM.”

          (Also, I would bet you $100 that the OP is already aware that weight loss could be a good thing and is not reading your words astounded at a possibility she had never considered.)

        2. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

          Do you seriously not understand the difference between workplace advice and unsolicited health advice from strangers?

          1. EmilyAnn*

            People constantly tell writers to seek new strategies here that are related to the question they asked. People are told to seek help for their mental health issues when they affect their workplace.

            This is a sensitive topic and people are getting very defensive and angry over the perceived slight of telling a person that they may need to make some changes because their weight caused a bad thing to happen. The past is the past and the writer can’t change it but all that’s left is the future and for the good of all the future would be best for the OP if they were not 350 lbs anymore.

            1. Detective Amy Santiago*

              You know what would be for the good of all the future? For you to stop commenting on this with your fat shaming.

            2. fposte*

              This is a “when you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail” situation, but you’re hitting people with that hammer. Please stop it. I understand this is essentially a religious calling for you, but just as with religious proselytizers, this is out of line when it’s not sought.

            4. Jessie the First (or second)*

              “This is a sensitive topic and people are getting very defensive and angry over the perceived slight ”

              No. People think you are being rude and obnoxious. Which is true, you are being rude and obnoxious.

        3. Detective Amy Santiago*

          Because #1 – we are not the OP’s doctor and do not know their health status.

          #2 – OP losing weight is not going to resolve this issue in any way. OP wrote in for WORKPLACE advice.

        4. Justme, The OG*

          The OP did not write in asking for weight loss advice, it would be totally different if they had. But since they didn’t, someone giving random advice over the internet is so unhelpful.

          1. tangerineRose*

            This! Also, as a person who weighs more than I should, do you know what I tend to do when I feel bad (the way I’d feel if someone was pressuring me about my weight)? I’d go home and eat some chocolate so that I’d feel better.

        5. NW Mossy*

          You’re mischaracterizing the OP’s question, who specifically asked for help about how to normalize relationships at work after this freak accident. Losing weight as a response is too slow and too indirect to be meaningfully helpful for relationship repair. And even if you dress up “lose some weight” with every possible side benefit, it’s still a powerfully repressive message to tell someone that the way to recover with others is to literally become less of a person and take up less space in the world.

          And besides, at this point, I’m 1000% certain that the OP will use extreme caution towards furniture for decades to come and will be much better than the rest of us at avoiding this type of thing. It feels horrible to hurt another person, and when you feel that, you’ll take very significant measures to avoid doing so again.

        6. Delphine*

          Here’s the difference: There’s nothing to suggest this was caused by OP’s weight, and frankly, this could have happened to a 120 lb person who leaned on the desk the wrong way.

        8. Anonymeece*

          Because that’s really awful advice, for one. If someone writes in and says, “I’m older and have been out of the workforce for a while, how should I go about this?” and the advice was, “Wear make-up to hide your wrinkles!”, that advice would be quite rightly ridiculed.

          How the OP – and anyone – acts is more important than how the OP looks. It was an accident, she’s apologized, now she’s looking for information on how to act to get past this, not how to lose weight.

        9. myswtghst*

          How is telling a 350 lb person to lose weight a bad thing?

          Because it assumes the 350 lb person somehow does not know they are fat, and has never considered this radical idea of losing weight, and has not tried and failed (possibly many times) to lose weight, and is engaging in unhealthy behaviors that “caused” their weight and could be easily corrected, and that a “suggestion” from a helpful internet stranger will somehow work in ways that the constant shame heaped on us by medical professionals and pop culture and our own brains has not worked. And those are all pretty terrible assumptions unless the person you’re addressing just teleported here from some fat people celebrating utopia that I like to visit.

      14. Thlayli*

        I knew this would be unpopular. I said it anyway because I genuinely believe it would make some of OPs coworkers feel more charitably towards her. OP asked for advice on how to deal with this, and I genuinely think this action would make her coworkers more likely to forgive her.

        I don’t much care whether the rest of you think I should have said it or not. But to address some of your comments – suggesting that someone lose weight is not as unkind as calling someone a jerk or a scammer. Also Alison deleted a comment above saying the OP should be embarrassed so it will be interesting to see if the comment saying I should feel bad gets deleted.

        Also, whether I believe the primary fault is OPs weight or not is irrelevant to this answer (I actually think the primary fault is that there was nowhere to sit when waiting for someone to read and sign paperwork – no one should have to sit on desks anyway). But I would bet money that at least some people in OPs office think that OPs weight is the primary cause of this incident, and would see a desire on OPs behalf to lose some weight as an attempt to make things right. In much the same way that people said on the Bird letter that it was Jacks responsibility to deal with his phobia, since that was the primary cause of Lizs injury. Whether you believe me or not is irrelevant.

        OP – you know the people you work with better than I. If you think that some of them may blame your weight for this incident, then you may want to consider that attempting to lose some weight might make them feel more charitably towards you. Do with that info what you will.

        1. Kelly L.*

          And just how would you suggest OP do this? Is she supposed to keep the office apprised of each milestone in her weight loss, as in “Hey, everybody, I’ve lost another 5 pounds!” Humiliating and punitive to OP, none of the co-workers’ business as it’s private health info, and I’d be really uncomfortable receiving these updates as a co-worker.

          Or is she just supposed to quietly lose it and hope people notice? It takes a long time to lose weight in a healthy manner, and people are bad at noticing incremental changes in people they see every day. It’s unlikely anyone would pick up on it soon enough to connect it with the accident.

          1. Thlayli*

            The point I’m trying (and apparently failing) to make is that some people will undoubtedly blame OPs weight for this incident, some of those people will probably feel that she should try to lose some weight to address the problem, and some of those people might feel like OP is actually taking responsibility and trying to solve the problem if she even tries to lose weight, regardless of how successfully or quickly she manages it.

            If I am right in this belief, even an appearance of trying to lose weight might make those people feel more charitably towards the OP. So she might not even have to lose any weight – just pretend to go on a diet at work and secretly eat at home. If it doesn’t turn out to make any difference to people’s opinions you can always forget about it and go back to your usual food at work. But I think if people are judging OP it’s worth a try to see if it helps. If it doesn’t work – move on and try something else.

              1. Thlayli*

                As I’ve already said, I think the primary cause was not the weight, but the lack of a chair. If people have to wait for someone to read sign documents, there should be somewhere for them to sit.

                However it’s pretty clear from the office managers reaction that he blames her weight as being the primary cause. I’m guessing other people in the office blame her weight too.

                My own opinion (and yours) of the cause of the accident is irrelevant. The opinions of her coworkers is what OP asked for help with. I’m offering one possible way OP might be able to improve her coworkers opinion of her. Maybe it will work, maybe it wouldn’t. I think it’s worth a try. All OP has to do is pretend to go on a diet for a few weeks. If it doesn’t work, OP can stop.

                You can believe what you want though. If it makes you feel better to think that I blame OP, you go on believing that. It’s not true, but you can believe it all the same.

                1. Observer*

                  That’s nonsense. There is no way that the OP’s trying to lose weight it going to make a difference.

                2. LBK*

                  You don’t bend your actions to satisfy unreasonable people, because it gives credibility to their unreasonable ideas. To suggest that the OP lose weight to make her coworkers feel better suggests lending validity to their gross, insulting perspective.

                3. LBK*

                  Let me put it this way: if you botched a project at work and some of your coworkers decided it was because your hair is too long, would you cut your hair to appease them? Even though you agree it has nothing to do with the actual problem, would you do it to make them feel better?

            2. Pontoon Pirate*

              But it’s not OP’s fault, so why should she have to take on the burden of “solving” something that isn’t hers to solve? That’s so gross and performative. She owes nada to these chuckleheads, and advising her to spend her emotional and physical energy on engineering an environment that makes her co-workers comfortable at her expense is wrong.

            3. Yorick*

              It is fully ridiculous to say that OP should pretend to go on a diet at work because of this.

            4. Parenthetically*

              “some people will undoubtedly blame OPs weight for this incident, some of those people will probably feel that she should try to lose some weight to address the problem”

              Those people are dicks. They shouldn’t be catered to.

            5. myswtghst*

              Those people in your first paragraph? They’re the jerks. The OP is not obligated to change their body or perform healthy eating at work because it might make people more comfortable, and it’s really gross to suggest otherwise.

            6. nutella fitzgerald*

              “So she might not even have to lose any weight – just pretend to go on a diet at work and secretly eat at home.”

              BRUH.

        2. Katniss*

          It was unpopular because it was wrong and cruel. And on top of that, Alison has asked us not to comment on the OPs weight. Please stop. You are harming people right now.

        3. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

          There is so much we could do to make our coworkers feel more charitably of us, and most of those things aren’t reasonable. We could forgo having a second child because the parental leave we took for our first is hard on our coworkers. After being too brusque with someone we could bake them two dozen cookies every day for the next two years. Or we could lose weight because our officemates are mad at us.

          1. Observer*

            Well, apparently in Japan this would not be out of place. I just read an article about a woman who apologized to her boss for getting pregnant “out of turn” but has still been chastised by her boss for her “selfishness” and is afraid of losing her job. It seems to be fairly common in some industries for bosses to tell their staff who can get pregnant when and for women to be penalized for getting pregnant, especially at the “wrong” time.

            But, we’re not in Japan.

        4. Detective Amy Santiago*

          Literally *one* comment suggested that there might be a worker’s comp scam going on.

          You are being incredibly rude and inappropriate and your comments are not helping OP#2 or anyone else.

        5. Ask a Manager* Post author

          Also Alison deleted a comment above saying the OP should be embarrassed so it will be interesting to see if the comment saying I should feel bad gets deleted.

          The former was an unkind comment to the letter writer; the one here is about calling someone out for being unkind.

          (Also, I don’t see every comment, especially on long threads like this, although I happened to see this one. But I thought it worth noting.)

          1. Thlayli*

            I am not trying to be unkind. I’m actually offering what I think is a solution that might improve OPs relationships with some of her coworkers. Maybe it would work, maybe it wouldn’t. My primary goal was to offer an idea to help the OP, not to hurt her feelings.

            OP if you think I’m trying to be mean, I’m sorry, I’m really not trying to hurt your feelings. I tend to think in terms of the goal, rather than the steps on the way. I was thinking that the long term goal of helping you have better relationships with your coworkers would be a kind thing to do. And I didn’t really consider that advising you of a way to do that might be perceived as unkind. I actually wasn’t trying to be unkind. But it seems that I accidentally was unkind. I apologise.

            1. Detective Amy Santiago*

              Regardless of your intent, you *are* being unkind. Not only to OP, but to many other people reading the comments here. Multiple people pointed this out and rather than apologize, you doubled down and continued to try to “explain” your position. I appreciate that you are now apologizing, but I hope you will do some serious self reflection on this topic.

              1. Thlayli*

                Actually kindness or unkindness is defined by the intent not by the result. I was not being unkind, because any hurt I caused was accidental. I’m sure plenty of you don’t believe me, but that doesn’t make it any less true. I was actually trying to help the OP not hurt her. Apparently advising someone to lose weight is so hurtful that it outweighs any potential benefit to their feelings caused by losing the weight. Which I really really don’t understand. If losing weight (or even pretending to lose weight) makes OPs coworkers feel nicer towards her, how can it not be a nice thing to advise her to do so? It’s short term gain for long term pain. I really don’t understand how it’s unkind to say that. However since many people, including Alison, seem to actually believe that my INTENT was to be unkind, I’m willing to believe that you are all telling the truth, and that you genuinely think I was being mean. So I apologised for accidentally hurting her feelings, but I really really don’t understand how telling someone to try an action that i think would have a positive overall result on their feelings is unkind.

                But hey, that’s just one of a million things I don’t understand about psychology, so I’m not gonna lose any sleep over it.

                1. Gorgo*

                  Okay—by your incredibly narrow definition, you weren’t “being unkind.” (Eyeroll).

                  YOU SAID AN UNKIND THING.

                2. Thlayli*

                  Nope, I said a hurtful thing, that was not intended to be hurtful. Therefore it was not unkind.

                  Seriously, on this post of all posts, are you actually arguing that accidentally hurting someone is the same thing as deliberately hurting them?

                3. tusky*

                  But it wasn’t just any action you suggested. It was an action (losing weight, or the appearance thereof) that inherently means changing one’s body (in a way that would require some degree of pain) to a more “(socially) acceptable” form as a way to curry good favor from others. This seems unlikely to help the OP move on; rather it suggests that maybe OP *should* worry about their weight. In the context of a society in which fatness is already very overtly viewed with contempt, in which language about weight-loss as a practice and ideal is effectively unavoidable, it appears disingenuous (at best) for you to offer this as a “helpful” or “kind” bit of advice.

                4. Detective Amy Santiago*

                  @Thlayli

                  This is the last comment I am going to address to you.

                  Multiple people on this post, myself included, informed you that your comments were hurtful and inappropriate and you continued making them. Yes, people can make mistakes and say something that is unintentionally harmful, but when that happens and you are called on it, you apologize and STOP DOING THAT THING. You are STILL continuing to defend your offensive stance which is deliberately unkind.

                5. Thlayli*

                  I don’t really take the opinions of other commenters too seriously (let’s face it, people say some seriously crazy stuff on here) – but I do listen to Alison (why else would I come here).

                  So I genuinely didn’t realise that “maybe consider losing do some weight” was such a hurtful thing to say that it outweighed the potential gain of improving OPs interaction with her coworkers, until Alison said that she actually thought I was deliberately trying to hurt OPs feelings. I gotta say, that actually hurt, that Alison would think I wasn’t intentionally being mean. I am very rarely intentionally mean and this was definitely not one of those times. I still don’t understand WHY it’s so hurtful, but I believe Alison that it apparently is.

                  Once I realised that I instantly apologised for accidentally hurting OPs feelings.

                  However, I still believe that OP letting her coworkers know that she is trying to lose some weight (whether true or not) would go some way to negating the anger they probably feel towards her, given that we know at least one of them blames her weight for this incident. I’m not gonna apologise for doing my best to give OP the best advice I could. Obviously I got it wrong, and I have apologised for accidental hurt caused, but no way no how am I going to apologise for trying my best to help a fellow human feel better. I don’t really care about your opinion of me, but I know I was trying my best to be nice, and that’s all that matters.

                6. LBK*

                  Oh come on, you didn’t “accidentally” hurt someone. You acknowledged right in the comment that you knew it would be unpopular, but you purposely said it anyway.

                  You may have *incidentally* hurt someone by implying something rather than directly saying it, but you didn’t do it by accident.

                7. Thlayli*

                  I knew it would Be unpopular because I know lots of people on here go nuts any time someone mentions that losing weight is a good thing. I never knew why they did that – factually and logically losing weight is obviously a good thing if you are overweight – and as I said above I don’t really pay much attention to who says what or why a lot the comments on here (and everywhere really) are pretty silly. I still don’t get why it’s so hurtful, but like I said I have accepted that it apparently is hurtful and apologised for the hurt I inadvertently caused.

                  You can continue to believe i intentionally hurt OP if you want, that’s ok. You’re entitled to your opinion and you’re obviously not the only one who thinks I was deliberately being hurtful. But i know the truth, and you can’t make me ashamed for trying to help the OP, even if I did accidentally hurt her.

                8. tangerineRose*

                  Thlayli, I’ve gotta guess that you’ve either never been particularly overweight, or that at one point you were, decided to do something about it, and happened to be lucky enough that the pounds melted off.

                  For me, it feels like one more thing I’m not doing right, and sometimes feeling like that has me feeling depressed enough that I don’t even care anymore.

                  I’m sure the LW has thought about losing weight.

        6. Kaybee*

          “If you think that some of them may blame your weight for this incident, then you may want to consider that attempting to lose some weight might make them feel more charitably towards you.”

          I don’t want to join in the fray of whether this is something OP should be concerned about or not. I just want to point out that the reality of losing lots of weight isn’t what people might think. As someone who has lost a lot of weight under doctor’s orders, let me tell you about extreme weight loss in the workplace: You need a mountain of understanding and support from your coworkers. It’s not going to elicit charitable feelings if people are already feeling uncharitable. My background: I’m talking about three digits under medical supervision, meaning weekly check-ins and testing to make sure I wasn’t hurting myself. We’re not talking about cutting carbs to lose 10 lbs.

          First, there are all the dr appointments involved in making sure you lose a lot of weight safely. And labs. Some of these can be scheduled after work, but for the most part, a lot this has to happen during business hours. So right off the bat, your coworkers are going to have to get used to scheduling around your medical appointments. And we’re talking in terms of years, here, not weeks or months.

          To keep momentum, to keep off the weight, to deal with the issues that caused you to gain weight in the first place, to deal with the very real psychological effects of losing weight, as well as all of the random stuff you really shouldn’t have to deal with (there’s a surprisingly high number of people who unconsciously and consciously try to sabotage your weight loss), therapy is pretty critical for sustained, serious weight loss. Now, things like group sessions and support groups I can usually schedule after work, but my individual sessions with my therapist are hit and miss in terms of after work scheduling. So you can add that to appointments that have to be scheduled around. And those afterhours sessions? Need me to work late tonight? Sorry, not unless you’re going to give me the $200 to cover my therapist’s less-than-24-hours cancellation fee.

          Food: I have to eat lots of small meals during the day. What and when I eat is nonnegotiable. So that’s yet another thing to schedule around, and really affects my ability to socialize with my colleagues. No morning coffee breaks, no happy hours, and no group lunches. I’ll go on someone’s birthday or something and order a salad if possible, but usually I can’t order anything, which makes folks uncomfortable. You have no idea how much of office culture revolves around food until you opt out.

          Water: You have to drink a ton of water when losing weight. I’m supposed to drink 120 ounces a day (more, if possible), and if I want to sleep at night, I have to cut that off well before bedtime, meaning that I’m drinking this at work. I had to opt out of the office water club because the amount of water I have to drink is so disproportionate to everyone else that it wouldn’t have been fair to make them subsidize it. But it also means I have to go to the bathroom all. the. time. As in, even if I go immediately before a meeting, I sometimes have to leave during a meeting because the need becomes that urgent.

          Exercise: I exercise before and after work, but I also need to get movement in at work. Now I’m at work 9 hours a day usually, and eat my small meals while at my desk, so I can take an hour to do this without feeling bad. But it’s yet another thing to schedule around, and I have to do it no matter what, even when it’s hot and humid. I keep deodorant and other things to help with that at work, but let’s be real, sometimes I don’t look or smell like a fresh flower.

          Looking professional: You don’t lose weight like you gain it. And when you’re losing lots of it, weird things happen. For example, at one point my waist was three dress sizes larger than my chest. NO ONE makes clothes that fit that, and frankly unless you make A LOT of money, it’s impossible to buy a completely new wardrobe for each change your body makes. Even when you haven’t changed sizes, your weight shifts around in really weird ways. I have spent in the four digits, literally, making sure I have one uber professional outfit for each iteration of my body for my most important meetings/events, and the rest of the time my coworkers have to deal with my sometimes looking really odd in my clothes.

          Plus, burning fat makes a lot of people feel terrible. And while I try to close my door and avoid people during the worst of it, there are times when I am cranky or lethargic or any number of undesirable things to be at work.

          Now add to all of this that we sometimes have to travel together for work, so pack all of the above into group travel.

          And again, we’re talking about YEARS here.

          And I’m sure there’s more that affects my work life, but this is what comes to mind without having to think too much about it and this is already turning into a novel. I am lucky to have coworkers who genuinely care about me and are supportive of what I need to do for my health, but it would be incredibly naïve to think this hasn’t been an inconvenience for them, and at times a HUGE inconvenience for them. When you’re talking about real weight loss done in a safe, healthy way (e.g. with medical supervision), the reality is that it would have been a thousand times easier for my coworkers to deal with my being fat than my sustained weight loss.

          1. Abelard*

            This is a really great post, thank you for it. I’m in the process of losing weight right now and have experienced a lot of what you are talking about. A lot of people don’t seem to realize how involved and consuming it is to lose a significant amount of weight or how long it takes.

            If an overweight individual went to a doctor complaining of pain in their joints and the response was “lose weight” that is an incompetent doctor. Not because losing weight isn’t beneficial in the long run but it is by implication saying that an overweight individual deserves to be in pain until they are at some specific weight and only then do they deserve courtesy, respect and help.

            That’s what it comes out sounding like when someone offers “lose weight” as a solution here. Outright saying maybe they’ll like you better if you lose weight is completely inappropriate.

          2. Thlayli*

            Wow that sounds awful. Fair play to you for going through that to improve your heath. That’s a great achievement.

          3. Tequila Mockingbird*

            Thank you for your openness and honesty! Congrats on everything you have achieved.

          4. Lala*

            Thanks for this. I’m in the middle of a similar endeavor, and it is grueling. No one who hasn’t been through it can fully get it.

            Not to mention, when you’re a certain size, weight loss can be so slow that no one’s going to visually recognize that you’re doing anything. People who don’t know the work I’m already putting in who sneer at my current size are doing a thousand times more harm than they can even imagine when they suggest I haven’t considered losing weight. I HAVE. I ACTUALLY AM.

            NOT MY FAULT YOU DIDN’T SEE/KNOW ME 60 POUNDS AGO.

            So please consider that, people who like to assume fat people don’t know about this thing called losing weight. And if you think we’re not aware of how much easier our lives would be if we weren’t fat, you are wrong.

            I will forever get pissed off at anyone who tells someone to “just lose weight” because there is no “just” in there. Even bariatric surgery, which will help it happen more quickly, is a major undertaking that not everyone can do (or even afford), and it literally has a small percentage chance of *killing* you. Yet because fat is so stigmatized, many, many people consider it worth possibly dying for.

        7. Delphine*

          “People might like you more if you were less fat” is so deeply cruel. I hope the LW doesn’t see this comment. I can’t even imagine my feelings if this sentiment was directed at me. You should be ashamed.

          1. Thlayli*

            Are you intentionally missing my point? I was saying “people might be less angry at you if you make an effort to address what they seem to think is the problem.”

            As I’ve said above, the office manager clearly thinks the weight is the problem. Probably other people do too. Appearing to address the perceived problem is what I was suggesting. It is only incidental that the perceived problem was the OPs weight. I made comments on the post about the person who went to her coworkers home to ask why she didnt say goodbye – I suggested that she address the cause of the problem (the anxiety) and in that case the OP updated to say that the comments helped her realise that she did need to address her anxiety, and she had taken steps to do so. And that that was helping smooth things over with her coworkers. So the comment was helpful that time. In this case the weight is the perceived problem for at least one coworker and possibly others. So I thought addressing that might smooth things over with coworkers in this case also. I still don’t understand why it was so hurtful to say this, but I acknowledge that it was hurtful and have apologised.

            1. Katniss*

              You’ve been asked by the admin to stop. Is there a reason you’re refusing to listen?

              1. Thlayli*

                Alison didn’t ask me to stop – she said she thought I was being unkind. I instantly applogised and explained that I was not trying to be unkind. Alison didn’t post to say that “it’s never ok to suggest someone to change their body” until AFTER I stopped posting yesterday. I haven’t broken any rules intentionally.

            2. biobottt*

              But in the other letter you reference, the LW’s anxiety actually *was* the problem, not just a perceived problem. Do you you modify yourself and your actions just based on other people’s opinions of you, regardless of whether or not they’re right? (I’m guessing not, based on your behavior on this board.)

              1. Thlayli*

                When I ask people for advice, I listen. I then modify my behaviour based on whether i agree with the advice. OP asked for advice on how to behave at work. I suggested what I believe was a helpful behaviour change, which I believe could improve some of the relationships at work that have been damaged by this incident. Other people disagreed that it would be helpful. OP is free to take my advice or the advice of others or ignore it all – it’s totally her choice which advice she chooses to listen to and which to ignore.

            3. What the hell is wrong with you*

              Do you really not understand that your comments aren’t ok? Wow. Just wow.

              1. Thlayli*

                I understand THAT advising Op to lose weight was a bad thing, because Apparently it is so hurtful it outweighs all the positive benefits. I don’t understand WHY it is so hurtful, and I probably never will.

            4. What the hell is wrong with you*

              “It is only incidental that the perceived problem was the OPs weight”

              It’s not incidental. That’s what people are trying to explain to you. Some things are ok to comment on. This isn’t.

              “In this case the weight is the perceived problem for at least one coworker and possibly others. So I thought addressing that might smooth things over with coworkers in this case also. I still don’t understand why it was so hurtful to say this”

              That is so messed up. Do you always take everything so literally and miss the actual point?

              1. Thlayli*

                I think you are the one missing the point, but yes, I do always take things literally. Which apparently you think means there is something “wrong with me”. Has it occurred to you that you are intentionally trying to hurt my feelings, as opposed to me accidentally hurting someone’s feelings? I don’t actually give a crap what you think of me, so you have failed to hurt my feelings, but I think that you and all the others on this post who intentionally tried to hurt my feelings by saying intentionally mean things to me are far far worse people than I am, since I offered what I genuinely believed was helpful advice trying to help someone with a problem, and accidentally hurt their feelings, while you are intentionally trying to hurt my feelings. Intent matters. You are the one being mean here, not me. But like I said, you have failed in your attempt to hurt me, so don’t worry about it.

      15. Sylvan*

        I understand why you’d make that suggestion, but OP’s coworkers aren’t going to be monitoring OP’s size and looking for changes. If OP has any interest in losing weight, my advice to them would be to do it with a doctor’s guidance for medical reasons, not as part of your guilt for this accident.

        1. Sylvan*

          Seriously, separate your guilt or embarrassment from any weight-related healthcare as much as you can. You don’t want that kind of mess. Be gentle with yourself.

      16. Jules the Third*

        Unpopular for a reason – you say that as if OP hasn’t heard it before. As if putting it as a question will make it ‘better’.

        Sometimes it’s better to keep ‘unpopular’ opinions to yourself.

    4. Tuxedo Cat*

      I think the OP should do her job and keep her head down for awhile. Be polite but maybe a little more quiet.

      I’d also suggest the OP figures out some generic statements to any questions coworkers might ask her or statements they make, as well as what she might say if/when she sees the injured party again. I always like to rehearse a bit in my head.

        1. Tuxedo Cat*

          Thanks. It’s something I find that makes me feel like I have some control over the situation. It isn’t 100% fool-proof, but it does actually cover the bulk of things people will say.

          OP2, the good news is that while I have actually had to use some of my pre-crafted statements, I never had to use them as often as I anticipated. I hope that’s true for you. I’m guessing that some of the posters here would be happy to help you on this.

  42. babblemouth*

    Another fun ice breaker is to ask people to share what the most beautiful place in the world is according to them. you can get a whole range of answers (a beach in Hawaii, my mother’s living room, wherever my kids are) that tell you something about the person. The great thing is that you’re guaranteed to get happy answers and it puts everyone is a good mood. To make it fast, tell people to just state the place without giving any explanation. I’ve seen a room of 100 people go through the exercise in just 5 minutes.

    4. grace*

      Aw, I love this one! I’d have to think about it, but I’ve got a travel list a mile long – I’d love to add to it.

      I like ones like this, personally; tell me a funny story, what’s your favorite vacation/tv show/food, if you won the lottery tomorrow, what charity would you donate to, etc. Short, sweet, and provide something to go along with your name, so hopefully others can remember who you are!

  43. MommyMD*

    A femur fracture is a huge big deal, is long in healing, and cause pain for many months. I’m sorry this happened to you. I think the answer calling the injured party is a jerk is a little harsh. I’d give him some time. If it were me I’d send him a card once again offering up apologies and asking if there was anything I could do such as bring over dinner, etc. I think it was wrong to use your name on the memo. I’d also own it that I did cause the injury and hope that your colleague will eventually come around. That’s a major injury. Though unintentional, it did impact his life seriously and I’d give him time to work through that. Good luck.

    1. Summer*

      Interesting, thanks for the perspective. Who covers such a workplace injury, would the co-worker have to fund the medical procedures himself?

      1. Juli G.*

        It should be workers’ comp insurance. That’s probably part of the reason the facilities guy is being such a dillhole.

        1. Summer*

          Makes sense. No wonder they’re being so agressive towards the OP. A desk that breaks if someone leans on it must be extraordinarily fragile and if they’re decent, they should cover the costs.

    2. Mike C.*

      I wouldn’t own this at all – the furniture and thus the workplace is at fault, not the OP.

  44. Em Too*

    ‘People bingo’ works well where networking is part of the aim too. We’ve included work skills in the bingo – an excel wizard, fluent in another language etc.

    1. Justme, The OG*

      I do people Bingo at church at the beginning of a new Sunday school year. Kids find other people who have the same favorite food or school subject as them. Most kids have known each other for years but it helps the new kids.

    2. Emi.*

      I had to play “diversity bingo” once, which was, uh, pretty terrible. Everyone just went around saying “Can you sign anything on my card?” because the alternative seemed to be “You’re black, right?” and “Hey, you ever been on welfare?” and “You look like you don’t have a college degree!” and “Any Jews around here?”

  45. Detective Amy Santiago*

    OP #2 – I want to give you massive kudos for going back to work at all after something like that. As everyone else has said, it’s absolutely ridiculous that an office desk can’t hold more than 100 lbs. I’m pretty sure that a computer tower and two monitors would come near that limit without anything else and that sounds incredibly unsafe.

    That being said, the best way for you to move past this is to be professional and focused on work. If people start gossiping about what happened, adopt a cool tone and say “I feel terrible that the shoddy furniture here injured Fergus, but about those TPS reports”. Just basically refuse to discuss it as much as possible. And, this is way easier said than done, but try to work on your physical reactions. I know I flush/blush/turn red easily because of my pale skin. I’m also terrible at controlling my facial expressions when I’m upset. If you can ask some trusted friends or family to help you by talking about it outside of work, you can retrain your brain not to have those reactions when it comes up.

  48. Teacher*

    I’ve used a version of scar stories as the main exercise for a writing workshop, more than once. It’s great for that. Probably not great as an icebreaker for most of the work settings we see in this column, but I wouldn’t give it a blanket no without hearing the context, and the only context we have is that this was a 90 minute workshop. I can think of plenty of jobs where you and your coworkers regularly need to have each other’s backs in life-threatening situations, and for a workplace like that, boundaries are typically different than an average desk job and an exercise like this might be a good call for facilitating trust and connection, especially if that was one of the goals of the workshop/training and there were only 90 minutes.

    1. attie*

      This. I was reminded of something I read ages ago about how flight attendants are incredibly gossipy, and it’s a deliberate strategy because they have to work together as a well-oiled team and be able to rely on each other in an extreme emergency, within 30 minutes of meeting each other for the first time. The way they achieve that rapid bonding is by sharing deeply personal stuff straight off the bat. That *is* an effective ice breaker strategy.

      Of course, it comes at a cost, and it’s worth asking if it’s really necessary to bring out that kind of forced vulnerability at an introduction to pivot tables session.

  49. What's In a Name?*

    OP#2 if the desk is meant to withstand only 100lbs, there is something wrong with that desk. What if someone put a heavy box on it? Coupled with a computer monitor (or a few as many have these days) and maybe a computer tower it wouldn’t take much weight to send that falling down. Heck, I’m considered a small person but I (and I would say most adults) weigh over 100lbs.

    ANYONE could have sent that desk toppling if that’s the case. Perhaps THAT should be the concern of your facilities department – getting less shoddy desks!

  50. Llama Grooming Coordinator*

    Oh man.

    With LW2, I can see both ways with the coworker. True, a lot of lawyers will tell you not to apologize, and having your femur broken is a HUGE THING (to the point where a lot of people were doubting the severity of the coworker’s injury, because it is that bad), but it’s also like…I’m pretty sure that this is not the first time that LW2 has leaned on a desk at work. Maybe not even the first time that they leaned on that specific desk. I think that if that happened to me, I’d be a little more chill about it (and give my lawyer a heart attack) if I were the coworker.

    As weird and possibly insensitive as this sounds, LW2, I hope you can eventually look back at this and laugh a little. As a lot of people pointed out, most adults weigh over 100 pounds. This could have happened with the majority of your coworkers, I think. Moreover, as an internet stranger reading this story on an advice blog…this is quite the story, I must admit. Hopefully your coworker recovers quickly and everything else is well.

    1. Llama Grooming Coordinator*

      Okay, so a couple of more questions:

      1) We know your management (or at least the person who sent the company wide email NAMING YOU AND YOUR COWORKER) deserves to be shot into the sun. How has everyone been treating you, though?

      2) How did the facilities manager sound when he made the comment about your weight?

      I’m guessing the answers are 1) not well and 2) it doesn’t matter because that was an insensitive thing to say to begin with. But I can also see that…like, maybe most people put it out of mind after the email, and the facilities manager made a throwaway comment about your weight instead of intentionally exaggerating it.

      1. Foxtrot*

        The company naming employees was wrong. Even if rumors spread, because you can connect the dots between a guy using crutches and an email saying an employee broke their femur on the job, it shouldn’t have been verified.
        But I see two things happening. The OP needs to forgive themselves. It was an accident, unless it’s really obvious the desks can’t support people. The desks where I work are flimsy particle board attached to cube walls with what look like regular shelve brackets. Based off shelves I hang at home, I’m guessing each bracket pair holds 80-100lbs. The work around here is that anyone who regularly has other people in their cube also has an extra chair or two. The company gave us less stable desks, but also options if people don’t want to stand.
        The second, though, is that your coworker may not forgive you for a while and you need to decide what “forgiveness” looks like in this case. I’m a smaller woman and I would never sit on my work desk. It’s clearly not made for people. I once had a coworker who is bigger than I am (6’2” male who’s also larger) sit on a desk and I panicked in my head about what to do if he broke it. He didn’t, but he also was off the desk in under 30 seconds because he decided it was a bad idea. I was really scared he would hurt *himself.* I didn’t think about me getting hurt at all. If I was your coworker, it would take a long time to conclude that you shouldn’t have “known better.” I don’t know if that’s fair or not. I’ve never had a broken femur so it’s hard to say.
        I still think you need to figure out how to let it go even if the other person doesn’t yet. I wish I had better advice on how to do that.

        1. Cercis*

          The problem with chairs is that they can be hard to get out of – when my knees are acting up, I don’t sit unless I’m going to be sitting for awhile. It’s just too much pain otherwise. So I like to lean (also easier on the knees). High stools are also nice. Basically, anything that’s higher than a normal chair. I have long legs, so most chairs end up with my knees being a little higher than my hips, especially if I’m wearing heels as you do in an office situation, it’s very hard to stand up without hurting myself (and sometimes I have to ask for assistance in standing up because my knees just won’t cooperate).

  51. Helen*

    Ice-breakers and bonding sessions: we had a terribly misjudged one the other year. We were bussed out into the middle of nowhere, split up into groups without knowing much about what we were doing, blindfolded, told to hold each others’ shoulders in lines and led in darkness into one of those ‘escape room’ things… locked in a confined space with an anxiety-provoking scenario, anxiety-provoking background noises and people you might not want to go through that with. Bad enough if you, for example, don’t like the dark, touching strangers or being locked in a toilet-cubicle-sized space with a (real, incidental) spider; bad enough being locked in for an hour with no toilet facilities, water or seats; but when we got out of the tiny cubicles into the main space (small, confined, windowless) some things about the scenario there triggered me big time into flipping straight back emotionally to the single worst time in my life. I didn’t feel able to leave the group and walk out, and got into a horribly worked-up post-traumatic state. Afterwards, as soon as we hit the restaurant where we were spending the rest of the supposedly enjoyable afternoon and evening, I downed a lot more alcohol than I normally drink to try and numb down the shaking and distress. It kind of worked (bad idea at a work do though) but I’m not a big drinker so when the booze wore off the emotions came straight back, and I was up till 2 am keeping my poor husband up as well, trying to deal with it all.

    Apparently some people thought it was boring. Woo hoo. Lucky them.

    My advice to people arranging work events is, do watch out for possible triggers, let people know in advance what they’ll be doing, and make it totally clear that it’s entirely optional.

    1. LKW*

      That is terrible. Those kinds of things should be announced and you should always have the option to sit out or just not participate at all. If someone surprised me with paintball or trust falls – nope. Nopity nope nope nope.

      1. Chocolate lover*

        I considered trust falls suspect even as a kid. I was never going to trust someone based on one interaction. Once, several classmates and I refused to participate at a camp event. The unknown counselor didn’t know multiple members of the group had direct reason not to trust each other. (Not to mention several of us were overweight and self conscious about it, so we genuinely didn’t know if they could catch us.) He was a well built football player who said if we didn’t do it, we’d have to catch him, and that intimidated us, so we did. Sure enough, my classmates couldn’t secure me and I nearly fell. Pffft

    2. Falling Diphthong*

      This seems like a way to form strong bonds as you unite to destroy the people who locked you in the cubicle.

    3. Parenthetically*

      Whoa, holy crap, that’s absolutely awful and I am so sorry you had to go through that!!

      Escape room things are basically my idea of hell anyway, but I can’t imagine how nightmarish they could be for people with additional personal history like yours! Breakout “games” should be 100% voluntary, and I seriously cannot believe I just typed that.

    4. Detective Amy Santiago*

      oh HELL no

      I would have had a legit panic attack in those circumstances.

    5. Harper the Other One*

      I’m so angry on your behalf! That would be tremendously uncomfortable for the vast majority of people, and there are dozens of reasons I can think of that it would be particularly awful for specific individuals. I’m so sorry that happened.

    7. Emilie*

      We did an escape room at my work, as a team building experince. At a place we’ve been working with on a project previously, in a room that we knew the theme of and it was an even that people had to sign up for if they wanted to attend.
      I loved it, but I’m positive that I would have absolutely hated it if my place of work practically kidnapped me (!) and locked me in the room.

  52. Not myself today*

    Worst icebreaker I’ve ever had was a facilitator who went round the room and asked people their name and how many children they had.

    Not a problem so far. But whenever anyone said “none”, he said “oooh, you lucky thing.”

    I was undergoing fertility treatment at the time, unsuccessfully, and hadn’t told my workmates.

    1. Sugarplum*

      Yuck to that icebreaker and his “lucky” response. So many reasons people might not feel lucky about not having kids.

    3. Summer*

      I don’t know why anyone would think that fertility (or lack thereof) makes a good workplace topic. Yikes.

      1. Totally Minnie*

        It’s a huge insult to people with fertility issues, but it’s also potentially hurtful for others as well. I’ve always wanted to get married and have kids, but it never happened for me. I’m okay with it now, but 5-years-ago-me was still pretty hurt/bitter/angry about it, and if someone had said I was lucky not to have any kids I would have been so, so upset.

    4. Anonymous Ampersand*

      I would have asked him if my miscarriage at 17 weeks counted. And then I would have burst into tears and refused to ever talk to that idiot again.

      Jesus Christ.

  53. Jen*

    The first thing that came to mind with the scar story icebreaker is there are people whose scars are from self-harm. Would that get them bonus points for being both physical and an emotional scarring?

    In general, that’s really not information you want to be sharing with people you barely know. Whatever happened to just talking about a favourite book or something?

    1. Phoenix Programmer*

      Op 2 I am 325 lbs and have never broken an office chair or desk because my employer is not a dangerous cheapskate. I am very sorry this happened to you and your injured coworker.

      It’s not on you.

  54. VioletEMT*

    Friday Open Thread idea: What’s the worst icebreaker you’ve ever encountered in a work meeting?

    1. AcademiaLifer*

      We once had a trainer make us sing and dance as part of an ice breaker… Rather than introduce ourselves, we were told to “learn about each other through voice and motion.” It got stupider, because the song he choose was “My Bonnie Lies over the Ocean” but he actually thought it was “My BODY Lies over the Ocean.” So, he made us sing it, and every time we said the word body, we had to standup or sit down.

      In a way, I guess it worked… we all bonded over lunch talking about how f**king stupid this guy was.

      1. LKW*

        That sounds like a base improv 101 activity. Improv is to learn how to participate as a team and give and take, voice and motion. So, not an icebreaker.

        1. Observer*

          Also, totally not appropriate outside of improv type activities.

          And, apparently not well done – it seems reasonable to expect that you know the music you chose.

  55. HeyAnonnyNonnyNo*

    I’m pretty WTF at the idea that it’s fine to call somebody a “jerk” for being angry about a very serious injury, but not fine to point out that obese people might need to be careful about sitting on desks.

    1. CityMouse*

      I am actually kind of upset at the admin today. Calling someone a jerk for not accepting an apology under extremely bad circumstances is not okay. Expecting the injured person to do the emotional labor of forgiveness when they are still very injured is not reasonable. Admin should edit that reponse.

      1. Stardust*

        I agree in general but I also don’t think we can take it as a a given that the apology wasn’t accepted “under extremely bad circumstances” (unless by that you mean the whole situation/the fact that he now has a broken femur to deal with). We don’t know how long ago this happened, neither in what way the apology was delivered. It’s one thing to still be lying squished by your desk and react to OP’s frantic “OMG I’M SO SORRY!” with a “my goodness, shut up and call an ambulance!”, and it’s quite another to react stone-cold as if this was somehow OP’s intention when she delivers a card with a gift card and a serious apology weeks later. Obviously, both of these scenarios are entirely made up by me but the nonacceptance the OP speaks of must be closer to one end or the other in some way, which could indeed make the coworker out to react jerkishly afterwards (still with a serious injury, though).

        1. CityMouse*

          OP says coworker is still out of work, so the person is still going through a medical issue. That person deserves compassion and space.

        2. Oxford Coma*

          Obligatory forgiveness is not real forgiveness, it’s emotional theater. Policing the whens and hows of femur guy’s obligation to forgive LW for his injury is not our right at any point in this scenario.

        3. Kelly L.*

          Yeah, this. I read the OP’s apology as closer to the latter scenario, I think because it was mentioned later in the story, but it’s hard to say.

      2. Marie B.*

        Look at the comments for the letter where someone with a bird phobia pushed their coworker into a car, or the one where the letter writer with anxiety opened the paystub and went to their coworker’s house. It is often the case where a few of the comments expect the victims to bend over backwards to apologize to the people who hurt them, and are implied to be bad people if they don’t.

      3. Detective Amy Santiago*

        If you read the comments, Alison very clearly said that she did not realize what a serious injury it was when she wrote that response.

        Also, I think a lot of us are pointing out that it was a freak accident and it’s not really fair for the injured coworker to blame OP#2. I would venture a guess that 99% of adults weigh more than 100 lbs which means this could have happened when anyone leaned against that desk.

        1. Glomarization, Esq.*

          Doesn’t even matter how serious the injury was or how intentionally it was inflicted. A person can choose or not to choose to forgive/apologize, whatever they want or need to do for their own well-being. It’s too bad, but there’s jack-all that the letter writer, this blog and its commentariat, or anybody else can do about it.

      4. Joielle*

        We’re talking about two different types of forgiveness, though – the real, genuine kind, where the injured party does extensive emotional labor to come to terms with the accident, truly forgive, and hold no ill will, and then the kind where the OP says “I’m so sorry, I didn’t mean to hurt you, I feel terrible” and the injured party says “I know you didn’t mean to, thanks for apologizing,” and is still mad for a while after that.

        I think it is a little jerk-ish to not even do the second one, when it’s obvious that it was a freak accident and not really OP’s fault. I know it’s just “emotional theater,” as Oxford Coma points out below, but I guess I don’t see the problem with that at work.

        1. Detective Amy Santiago*

          There is a huge difference between accepting someone’s apology and actually forgiving them. I do understand that the injured person may not be in a good place to even accept the OP’s apology at the moment depending on how long it has been since the incident, but I generally agree with your second paragraph completely.

    3. Juli G.*

      Her work place isn’t merely pointing it out, they’re humiliating her. If that desk can only handle 100 pounds than there’s no need to name names in an email because 97% of working adults will exceed the weight limit. There’s no need to call out obesity since most 150 lb adults aren’t obese and they too exceed the limit. It’s also not cool to tell her she’s four times the weight limit of the desk – that phrasing is meant to demean.

      A simple “the desks are not meant to support anything more than a monitor and office supplies. We recently had an injury result from someone leaning on a desk. This is a reminder that our desks are not meant to support our employees’ body weight.” Done. Without humiliation.

      Agree that the coworker is fine to feel upset right now. He gets some breathing room to be upset.

      1. Murphy*

        Yeah, 100 lbs is pretty much “Nobody lean on your desk, ever” (which is not a reasonable expectation for anyone).

        1. HeyAnonnyNonnyNo*

          Personally I don’t believe the 100lb thing. I suspect it’s either a number which a flustered facilities person pulled out of the air or a clumsy attempt to make it sound as if the desk would have broken whoever leaned on it.

          1. Detective Amy Santiago*

            Which actually doesn’t make a lot of sense. If they were trying to say that anyone would have broken it, then why are they shaming the OP for being heavy?

          2. Clare*

            I’m wondering if we are misunderstanding the 100 lb limit comment made by facilities. It seems like a very different thing to have multiple small objects that add up to 100 lbs spread out over the desk, distributing the weight over the whole surface; versus one object of 100+ lbs putting all that weight and pressure in one spot. It might be that the desk can’t hold more than 100lbs in ONE spot, not that it can’t hold more than 100 lbs in general over the whole surface area.

          3. CheeryO*

            Yeah, the 100 lbs. thing makes zero sense. If it truly could only support 100 lbs. of weight, you’d have desks collapsing left and right under the weight of normal computer equipment, books, etc., not to mention the added weight of people of all sizes leaning on them.

          4. CristinaMariaCalabrese (do the mambo like-a crazy)*

            I can’t believe I had to get this far down the comments to finally see someone else who thought this. My first thought was, “Wow, what a horrible desk!” and I started googling to make sure I’d never accidentally buy a desk with such a low weight limit. I haven’t found any desks yet with such a low limit.

        2. Thlayli*

          A 100lb person leaning against a desk would not put 100lb of weight on the desk. A 100lb person would actually need to climb right on top of the desk to put 100lb of weight on it. A 350lb person leaning on a desk could well put 100lb of weight on it.

          1. fposte*

            None of which changes the fact that it’s ridiculous to have an office desk that can’t hold 100 lbs.

            1. Detective Amy Santiago*

              Seriously. A computer, a couple of monitors, and some files can easily exceed this limit.

          2. Thlayli*

            Absolutely. It’s a ridiculously low level for the desk. I was merely pointing out that Murphy’s interpretation of a 100lb limit as “nobody lean on your desk ever” is incorrect. I went into the maths a little more downthread if you are interested.

            I actually would expect a decent desk to be able to take the full weight of a 100lb person. I weigh more than that and I’ve fully sat and even stood on desks lots of times without them collapsing. But what Murphy said was incorrect.

            1. Detective Amy Santiago*

              I went into the maths a little more downthread if you are interested.

              What you are doing is fat shaming and you need to stop.

              1. Thlayli*

                How on Earth is it fat shaming to point out that people are getting their maths wrong?

                You are engaging in “math shaming” lol

            2. Murphy*

              I wasn’t actually saying that 100lb person would put 100lb of weight on the desk. I was saying that the normal accumulation of stuff on a desk plus a typical adult size person leaning on it could easily exceed 100 lbs.

              I suggest you look up the word hyperbole, but thanks for fully establishing my incorrectness.

              1. Thlayli*

                I didn’t realise you were engaging in hyperbole, I thought you just didn’t understand how forces work. Many people don’t.

  56. AoifeL*

    there was a good icebreaker at the start of a week long training session I attended. it was a bingo style exercise. they had a card with a bunch of harmless characteristics that people might have, like from a city/countryside or plays a musical instrument. they weren’t intrusive and the activity got us moving around the room and talking. it also only took about 20 mins at the start of a week long training so not too long.

    1. LKW*

      I’ve done that and there was always one or two squares that were really specific (e.g. has lived on 4 different continents) and you had to find someone who had it filled in who could either tell you the name or point you in the direction of the person.

      Or you do what I do and just jibber jabber with folks and then casually ask someone if they fit any of the criteria as a point of being polite.

  57. Rebecca*

    #4 – email programs have wonderful ways of dealing with unwanted email messages. If your coworker won’t stop sending you job postings, set up a rule that if anything arrives from her email address, with key words in the subject or body of the message that are fairly consistent with the job postings she sends you, just have your email program send it to the deleted messages folder and be done with it.

    Backstory – I once worked with a superstitious person who thought they had to forward Every Chain Letter email in existence to us because she would experience luck if she didn’t, or she’d win money, or some such nonsense. Asking her politely to stop did nothing. So, anything from her email address with FW: in the subject line got deleted. And yes, sometimes work related things got tossed, and when she came to my desk asking why I hadn’t answered her email, I’d tell her again about the chain letter bit, and finally it stopped.

        1. Rebecca*

          Totally agreed, but they were very passive about things like that, and just told us to delete them. I have to say, this particular person opened us up to viruses on more than one occasion because she clicked on links in emails, even ones that were so obviously phishing scams. I hate to say it, but I’m so glad she doesn’t work here any longer!

  58. UX Designer*

    One of my favorite “ice breakers” is to have people tell the first concert they ever went to. It’s simple, fun and usually gets some low key laughs depending on how cheesy the show was.

    1. KGP*

      Best one I ever did was music-related, too — What is (or would be) your go-to karaoke song! Fun, super low stress, but tells you a little something about people.

  59. LKW*

    The best ice-breaker I’ve tried was to draw a pig. Those were the instructions. Then once everyone has completed drawing, the lead explained that if you drew your pig snout side left it indicated this… if it was snout side right … it meant this… if it was 3-quarter view… something else , if it was head on (that was mine -just a big ol’ pig face) … it meant something else. We were at tables of 5 or 6 so we then got to talk about it for a short time at our tables and show our pig pictures.

    It was simply to demonstrate that within a room of professionals who do the same thing we have to consider that everyone has a different perspective than we do and we need to listen, learn, yadda yadda yadda. But it was a lot of fun.

  60. Delta Delta*

    Re: icebreaker – I teach part-time at a local college. Usually my class is 12-15 students. But sometimes it’s bigger and I need a good way to learn names quickly. So in the first class I ask each student a positive, sort of silly question like “tell me about the best dinner you’ve ever had,” “have you ever had a celebrity sighting?” or “if someone gave you a yacht, what would you name it?” These usually don’t take very long and almost all of them generate fun discussion (the celebrity sightings are fun). I always have questions that a) elicit a fact; b) can be answered by most people; c) aren’t going to cause offense. Then it gives me a fact to associate with a person and their name, and it often helps me remember.

  61. Sled dog mama*

    My favorite icebreakers involve very short answers and are very different for a group that knows each other and groups that have just met.
    One that my husband (he works in leadership development/experiential ed) uses consistently with groups that know each other is to go around and say name, position, have you done a training like this before and then answer a silly question like what’s your favorite 80’s song (if time is limited drop the silly question).
    These things always go wrong when they involve describing an experience.

  62. Mr Cholmondley-Warner*

    To be fair, a broken femur is a huge deal, so it would be perfectly normal to be angry. And people deal with anger by directing it at someone. Sure, it’s not right, but that’s life. Calling the broken femur person a jerk is a bit harsh.

    The real problem here is the fact that the person is blamed for breaking the very flimsy desk. Leaning against a desk is something we all do, so if if can only handle 100 lbs, it’s a crappy desk, and the company should be sued.

  63. Glomarization, Esq.*

    Person A who is injured by Person B, no matter how seriously, does not ever actually have to forgive Person B or accept their apology. It doesn’t matter how intentional the injury was, either. And it doesn’t make Person A a jerk.

    I’m sorry that LW#2 is upset that the co-worker won’t forgive them. It may be something that LW#2 is just going to have to live with, though.

  64. CityMouse*

    I generally hate icebreakers in activities. It feels very high school, or like something your RA would do. Adults can introduce themselves without gimmicks I would be seriously tempted to make up a story.

    1. Guacamole Bob*

      I think it’s totally okay to exaggerate, oversimplify, selectively omit, and otherwise stretch the truth for ice breakers, especially those that are overly personal for the situation. The idea that most people would actually share “something you’ve never told anyone before” or “your most embarrassing moment” in a work context is ridiculous. Sure, I’ll come up with *an* embarrassing moment, but not necessarily my *most* embarrassing moment. And maybe my actual favorite scar has a story about being blind drunk in college and so I’ll choose a more work-appropriate story to use for the ice breaker.

      I’m a terrible liar, so I wouldn’t flat-out lie, but I totally support those who do.

  65. Erin*

    #2 – That sucks so bad, and I’m so sorry it happened to you. I’m curious about how your coworker “didn’t accept” your apology, but my advice would be: Don’t dwell on it too much or apologize profusely and repeatedly. You’ve already apologized once and it sounds like it didn’t go too well, so maybe ONE more try.

    Something like, “I just wanted to say again how mortified I am about what happened. I’m truly sorry and hope you know I did not intentionally hurt you. If there is anything I can do to help you transition back into work or if I can take something off your plate (if that’s applicable/would make sense), please let me know.” But then leave it at that. Repeated apologizing could drag the whole thing out and weaken your stance.

    And I agree on acting normal at work. Quick personal story (that pales in comparison to yours, of course): I hit a coworker’s car in the parking lot awhile back. I left a note on the car, apologized, paid for it, etc, but it was still mortifying and he was clearly not pleased with me at all. I was so paranoid he would tell all of our coworkers and everyone would think I was a huge jerk. I honestly don’t know who he told, but I just kept telling myself I did what I needed to do to handle it, and to hold my head high and come into work every day anyway. I feel significantly less awkward around him now.

    So give an apology one more go if you feel you should, and then give yourself permission to mentally move on.

  66. Jules*

    Best ice breaker I’ve been at was when we were asked what our dream job is and all participants on my team agreed on either retired or lottery winner. It’s telling of the work environment.

  67. rosiebyanyothername*

    A typical icebreaker we do at my office (when a new hire is meeting everyone) is sharing what your “specialty” is around the office. It can be something practical (“I know lots of Excel tricks!”) or something fun (“I’m the office plant mom!”). It’s always fun and low-key.

  68. Nicole*

    OP #2, based on what you’ve written, that desk would have collapsed under a 120 pound person too. I know you’re embarrassed about what happened, but I hope that it extends only to the fact your coworker was hurt and not because of your weight. Shame on the person who framed it like that!

    1. Thlayli*

      When you lean on something you don’t put 100% of your weight on it. Depending on the angle at which you are leaning you could put a significant amount of your weight on it though. If you leant a straight 350lb item at a 45 degree angle on a desk, you would put 175lb of weight on the desk and 175lb on the floor. Imagine a heavy filing cabinet weighing 350lb, leaning against the desk at a 45 degree angle. It’s entirely possible OP put far more weight on the desk than an average person would even by climbing on it, but it depends on so many factors like the angle, whether OP is primarily top heavy or bottom heavy etc. There’s no way to tell. But a 175lb person would have to be 100% standing on top of the desk to put the same amount of weight on it that OP could put on it just by leaning at a 45 degree angle. So no, it’s not the case that the desk would have collapsed just by a small person leaning on it.

      1. Detective Amy Santiago*

        Stop. Just stop.

        We get it. You think fat people are gross or whatever. The OP’s weight is not even the issue here.

        2. Thlayli*

          You are really really misinterpreting my comments Amy. I don’t actually think fat people are “gross or whatever.” Actually I enjoy hugging my overweight friends – it feels really nice. I don’t think it’s gross at all.

          People misunderstanding or misstating basic maths concepts really really annoys me though. It is like an itch I have to scratch to see incorrect maths and not correct it.

          2. Observer*

            This has nothing to do with misunderstand “basic math”. If anyone misunderstood basic math, it’s the facilities guy who claimed that the OP put “more the 4x” the rated weight on the table – something that’s impossible.

            And the reality is that a normal weight person could easily have overloaded a table rated for only 100 lb, given the weight that was probably already on the desk.

            Stop trying to fat shame the OP.

        4. Nicole*

          You’re right, there are “so many factors” involved here. There’s no proof that the desk didn’t collapse because it was put together poorly, it was ready to break and OP was in the wrong place wrong time, etc. Justifying why it might have broken due to her weight is unnecessary and not conductive to helping her problem.

          OP2, I’m plus sized too. We’re fabulous!

      2. CMDRBNA*

        I wonder if the desk wasn’t set up properly – if it was the kind that can fold or move maybe something wasn’t secured in place.

        1. Thlayli*

          I’m wondering that myself. The OP said the email “reminded” people not to sit on desks, so it seems there was a rule in place about not sitting on desks (which makes sense if they are only rated to 100lb). I’m wondering if it was originally temporary office furniture that ended up becoming permanent or something.

  69. Alex the Alchemist*

    OP #1: I had a professor who did a great icebreaker for each class I had with her. We went around and said our name, major, and something we liked that started with the first letter of our first name (for example, I’m Alex who likes animals). I’m someone who has a more difficult time catching on to names, so I thought this one was perfect. This one might not always be relevant, but if you’re spending a few days where you need to remember everyone’s names, I think it’s great.

    1. Falling Diphthong*

      No one has ever topped the Montessori preschool that just put stick-on nametags on the backs of all the toddlers, so the substitute teacher could get the attention of the correct tiny person in overalls.

      1. Guacamole Bob*

        I… thought that nametags on the back was a kind of standard thing in new group settings for very young children? It’s happened to my kids a few different times, and I think it’s brilliant.

        1. Falling Diphthong*

          I was the substitute teacher, and thought it brilliant. I’ve always wished for a way to apply it to adults, as someone who isn’t face blind, but on reading about it had a huge “Aha, this actually is simple for other people, while I struggle if you are an average looking acquaintance and out of your context.”

    2. Bow Ties Are Cool*

      Hi, I’m Bow Ties, I majored in Classics, and I like beer! (That last bit was no surprise to anyone who’s ever met a Classics major.)

      1. Alex the Alchemist*

        Ha, one of my best friends was a Classics major and I’m not surprised at all. In our class, we had Andrew* who liked alcohol, but my professor said just in case someone were to walk in on the class, we would call him Andrew who likes “apple juice” for a bit.

        *name changed

  70. Bow Ties Are Cool*

    OP2: Wow, I am so sorry that happened to you and your coworker. It’s natural that your coworker’s rejection of your apology hurts, but I hope you will remember they are probably still in pain and likely not feeling very cheerful or conciliatory. Try again when they’re back at work.

    Now, the facilities person is a rabid jerk. There is NO call for that kind of naming-and-shaming. Yes, I can see a reminder letter that the desks are not rated to hold over 100lbs being appropriate, but naming names and making an insulting guess at your weight is WAY over the line. Taking into account the stuff your coworker no doubt had on the desk, a child could have taken that flimsy thing down! But some people will take any opportunity to weight-shame others, unfortunately. You would be well within your rights to make a complaint to the facilities director.

    1. Erin*

      Yeah the naming and shaming is insane, inappropriate, and cruel. Normal, empathetic people the OP works with will recognize this.

  71. Anon for this*

    Just last week, I attended the first of ten monthly mid management training days at my organization. The icebreaker was that everyone in the 40 person class had to take off a shoe and put it in a bin at the front of the room. THEN we had to go get our shoe AND TAKE SOMEONE ELSE’S out of the bin. I chose the cleanest shoe I could find, but took a quick break to wash my hands after.

    Also, I wore boots that day and sometimes the socks under my boots are just whatever I grab since no one will see them. Thankfully they were tame that day, but I can say that absolutely zero people in that room were happy to have to take off a shoe. Then the trainer made a joke that we should be careful or she’d have us remove other articles of clothing. Let’s just say she was eviscerated in my class evaluation, but the training department seems to feed off of the discomfort of staff so I doubt it will be heard.

      1. Anon for this*

        Right?? I was actually thinking that it would be a great AAM letter after I got over my anger at being asked to do this.

        1. Detective Amy Santiago*

          As someone who is currently wearing boots with one neon pink and one neon yellow sock under them, I feel your pain.

    3. Falling Diphthong*

      This is where you want That One Person to firmly stand up and just start removing articles of clothing.

      It probably wouldn’t be me, but I would high five them so hard.

    4. Typhon Worker Bee*

      Heh, flashback to the conference dinner I went to in Tokyo where some of my colleagues hadn’t realised that “traditional Japanese venue” meant “you will need to take your shoes off”. Saw two pairs of mismatched socks and one big toe poking through a hole.

  72. kay*

    That SUCKS for OP2, but I don’t think their co-worker is a ‘jerk’. Even though it’s not the OP’S fault, from their perspective a person sat on a desk and it resulted in an extremely painful injury, with possibly intense rehab and potential law suits. So it makes sense he’s angry

  73. Ruthie*

    I am so glad that LW1 brought his issue up and that the response was this kind of activity shouldn’t happen. The last organization I worked for held a retreat with a similar activity. We were asked to share who in our lives influenced us and something from childhood that shaped us. I have to put in a lot of effort metering my emotions and immediately felt uncomfortable. And I was pretty new to the office, but had already realized how toxic the culture was and how nasty behavior could get, so I definitely didn’t want to be emotionally vulnerable in front of these people. I was confused by my own reaction and embarrassed to be fighting back tears before the activity even started and that’s when the second most senior person on staff, who was sitting next to me, put down his head and started sobbing. At that point I left and did not participate. But for reasons I can’t entirely explain, it took me about half an hour to stop crying in my cubicle, and another half hour to regain my composure enough to return to the retreat.

    That activity is to this day the worst experience I had at work, and I didn’t even participate. I was later told that there were some very intense and painful memories shared. In that same retreat, we were encouraged to be open and honest with each other, but when a woman who was running into a lot of resistance doing the job she was hired to do brought up some concerns, she was bullied and ridiculed and the facilitator did nothing. The women who spoke up left less than a month later.

    I’m now in charge of planning the retreat for my current team. And when speaking with facilitators, I make a point of asking them about potential icebreakers and team building activities.

    1. TotesMaGoats*

      My favorite team building that I ever did was to buy a few small puzzles (20 pieces or so) and then switch out one piece in each puzzle. Teams had to put them together without talking. It was interesting once they realized the wrong pieces and how fast puzzles were completed at that point. Reinforced that we have to talk to one another. No touching was required.

      1. Eye of Sauron*

        Yeah, the team building/ice breakers I organize have very strict rules… no touching, no oversharing/personal, no blindfolds, and not stupid. I’m not the biggest fan of ice breakers or team building, but I’ve found myself taking over the planning of them so that I’m not subject to the above nonsense.

        One of the more successful ones I did was for a recently formed group. Different factions had worked with each other for years, but 3 separate groups were coming together for the first time. I had everyone submit 3 words they thought described them. Then I made up worksheets with names in one column and descriptions in the other. Everyone then tried to match up the name to the description.

        It was good success, people who thought they could guess the description of the coworker they’d worked with for the last 15 years found out there were things they didn’t know about them and people also found out they had some things in common with people from the ‘other teams’.

      2. an infinite number of monkeys*

        Ha! I once had someone do this one — for a tour group. On a bus.

        The first several minutes were spent just trying to find a flat surface. Bumpy roads threw a bit of a wrench into things too. This guy REALLY didn’t think that one through all the way…

    2. Competent Commenter*

      Ruthie I’m so sorry you had this experience. If it’s any comfort, I feel like you described exactly how I would have reacted, especially when you said you were confused by your own reaction. I’ve had similar things happen to me in different situations and yes, it’s so embarrassing to be fighting back tears over what seems like nothing. I have some trauma in my past, but then I feel silly because the trauma is not that major compared to a lot of people and I don’t even know if it’s the reason I’m reacting. It’s all so uncomfortable and exposed and confusing. I appreciate that you shared this.

  75. SarahTheEntwife*

    I was at a meeting just this week where the icebreaker was “name something that brings you joy”. It worked really well. People’s answers ranged from serious work-satisfaction things to “coffee” and it put me in a good mood just hearing everyone talk about good things.

    3. pomme de terre*

      That is nice! I do improv as a hobby, and at the top of each show we have to get an input from the audience, and we ask a similar question — tell us something that you’ve been happily obsessed with lately. It prevents people from giving us negative (or X-rated) stuff that they think is funny to shout out, and puts people in a good mood.

  76. Harper*

    I was at a work retreat once and the ice-breaker was “Tell the worst thing you’ve ever seen”. Maybe the person who came up with that thought people would go to humorous things, but those of us who had witnessed really horrific things couldn’t help but think about those even if we didn’t share, so it got … really quiet.

  77. Come On Eileen*

    One of my favorite ice-breakers is to pass a bowl of quarters around. When it’s your turn, you look at the year on the quarter and talk about what you were doing in your life that year. You tend to get answers like “well in 1984, I was twelve years old, riding my ten speed bike and listening to a lot of Oingo Boingo.”

    1. pomme de terre*

      Yes, I’ve used this one and it’s one of the few icebreakers I’ve enjoyed! I did tweak the directive to ask people to share a nice memory from that year, because if you happen to pull a coin with a year that was a personal bummer, it can get rocky. If you have to say “In 1984, I got fired and my spouse left me so I was living in a terrible efficiency and crying a lot,” it’s a downer. But most people have at least ONE nice memory from a full calendar year, so the person could say, “My best memory of 1984 was when my BFF and I took a beach trip when I was going through a real rough patch” or “1984 was the year I finally got a dog, his name was Spot, and he was great.”

      2. Evie K*

        So, there’s a year for me where the bad thing that happened was so bad, it’s not only the only thing I can think of that happened in the year, but that thinking of the year at all is so depressing that the rest of the day would be me just faking normal & anything that happened in the training wouldn’t stick.
        Some of us pay a much heavier price for trying to intuit & then implement the best lie to get out of the ice-breaker.

    2. Ask a Manager* Post author

      I was subject to that one once, and I think it’s bad! You never know about people’s pasts, and all I could think was, “what if someone was recovering from trauma or being shunted from foster home to foster home or spent the year in an eating disorder in-patient clinic or…”

      1. Summer*

        Yes, it’s clearly from the perspective of someone who enjoyed a mostly happy life, and can’t imagine anyone doing anything else.

      2. LBK*

        Yeah, I feel like you should never do any icebreaker that targets specific info from someone’s life, because you run the risk of either forcing people to disclose something seriously personal or you put them on the spot to lie (and defeat the ostensible purpose of the icebreaker in the process).

        If I got a 2006 quarter my answer would be “I was mostly focused on trying to recover from my dad’s unexpected death” – what a fun story to share with everyone!

      3. Come On Eileen*

        I hadn’t really thought of that, and appreciate the perspective. I guess it really shows how challenging it can be to have one across-the-board innocuous icebreaker.

        1. Observer*

          In a workplace context, generally the best bet is to avoid pushing people to share personal stuff.

      4. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

        I do think this gets into “not everyone can have sandwiches” territory, though.

        We can’t predict what topics of conversation will be painful or difficult for every person we encounter. But that doesn’t mean we should only talk to people who we already know intimately enough to know what may be difficult for them.

        1. LBK*

          There’s a difference between accidentally stumbling on a topic that you didn’t realize was sensitive for someone and staging an activity whose sole purpose is forcing people to disclose personal things about themselves.

          1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

            “Name a thing that happened in 2006” is not particularly personal, and people can choose what and how much to disclose.

            Also, there is value in asking folks to disclose personal things. Not in every circumstance, of course, but also not in no circumstances at all. Vulnerability begets connection, and connection is important.

            1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

              That being said, I don’t think this is a good icebreaker. Even for those for whom it doesn’t trigger painful memories, it’s hard to come up with something that strikes the right balance of comfortable sharing and worth sharing, about a specific year in the past, in a split second. In 2006 I was… a couple of years into my first job after grad school? I had a cat? I got nothing.

            2. LBK*

              I disagree that a work connection needs to be personal – I’ve had great working relationships with people that I didn’t know anything personal about beyond their name and job.

              As for whether it’s “not particularly personal,” the issue is that you’re taking a real shot in the dark, and as with my example above I really wouldn’t be able to say much about 2006 that wasn’t shrouded in a painful memory. And if a vague “I was in high school” is an acceptable response…I mean, what is the point of even sharing that? How is that making people closer?

              It’s a catch-22 to me – you can’t argue that icebreakers are important to give people a connection but also say you don’t really need to disclose anything personal in them. If vague answers or outright lies are acceptable, that doesn’t bring me much confidence about the effectiveness of the icebreaker in establishing a bond.

              1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

                Well, that’s why I think that’s not a good icebreaker.

                And I do disagree with you that you never need personal connections at work. If I’m facilitating a group conversation about a racist incident that happened in our workplace and how our organization is going to respond, we’re going to need to dig into our own experiences of culture and working across cultures. We need to establish a personal connection to do that in a meaningful way.

                1. LBK*

                  I think we must be coming from wildly different contexts here, because a group conversation about a racist incident sounds like something Michael Scott would come up with. I don’t know what we’d possibly need to discuss or process as a team – I absolutely do not want to have a “meaningful” discussion about social issues with my coworkers.

                2. Squeeble*

                  LBK – if that incident happened at work, or to someone at work, it very well may need to be discussed at work.

                4. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

                  Heh. Then, yes, we’re coming from wildly different contexts.

                  Here’s a real (but vague) thing that happened at my workplace: An all-staff update sent by a VP was perceived by many staff as making racist assumptions about black people. It wasn’t cut-and-dry, super-obvious racism; a lot of non-black people read the email and didn’t think anything of it. But for black staff, it was deeply painful.

                  Our CEO held multiple open conversations with staff members who wanted to talk about what had happened, why it happened, what it meant about where we are as an organization that is striving to be anti-racist, and what we should do moving forward to prevent something similar happening again. The next steps that flowed from those conversations included a lot of deeply personal work by employees investigating our own cultural lenses, thinking about how we apply those at work, and how we can improve our individual habits of working cross-culturally.

                  It’s super personal, and it has to happen at work (if you care about having a diverse and equitable place of employment).

          2. Elsajeni*

            Right — relating it to “not everyone can have sandwiches,” it’s the difference between saying that to someone who’s suggested sandwiches to one person asking for lunch ideas for themselves, and saying it to someone who’s suggested sandwiches when someone asked what lunch they should serve at an all-staff meeting. Both versions can get tiresome (witness anytime that the comment section has been overtaken by “well THAT team-building activity would ALSO suck, because…”), but at least in the second case, it’s raising a real potential issue rather than purely shooting down the suggestion.

    3. Kate*

      I like that idea (though appreciate that it can be problematic for the reasons Alison and Summer mention above), but does someone check the date on the quarters first? I turned 3 years old in 1984 and several of my colleagues weren’t even born yet. Do you get to pick another quarter?

      1. Murphy*

        Yeah, I feel like that may also be problematic for younger people. I was at a training once and the man running it asked “Who was on the internet in 1994?” I raised my hand along with many others and he asked me “Were you even BORN in 1994?” :-/

        I’d be tempted to say I spent 1984 pooping my pants.

    4. SarahTheEntwife*

      I would hate that because for whatever reason my memory doesn’t file specific events with dates very well, and so unless something incredibly major happened I’m going to draw a blank, especially for childhood. And even then, I might have to do some mental calculation to remember whether Thing happened in 2003 or 2004.

      1. Parenthetically*

        1993? Uh… *does math* I was in… uh… fifth or sixth grade? So I… uh… probably went to camp that summer? And my fifth grade teacher was Mrs. Moore? And… uh… was that the year mom went to Morocco? Oh no, wait, that was 1998. Maybe? Can I text my brother real quick?

  78. yep*

    The only ice breaker I ever actually enjoyed involved rock paper scissors. I think it originates from the world of improv and brings a ton of energy to the room. I did it in a room of about 25 adults.
    In a room full of people each person turns to someone near them and plays rock paper scissors. Best two out of three. The person who loses instantly becomes the cheerleader for the winner who then finds another winner (who also has gained their own cheering squad) to play. All losers convert to cheerleaders and once you are a cheerleader, you follow your winner and cheer them on loudly till they lose and then you cheer on the person they lost to! It continues until there are two people left standing and half of the room is cheering loudly for one of them and the other half is cheering loudly for the other person. And people go crazy when one person wins.
    Did that make any sense?
    Does that make sense?

      1. Seattle*

        I’ve done this a bunch of times and I find it gets super loud and chaotic without people really learning anything about each other.

    2. Guacamole Bob*

      I did something kind of similar at a church youth retreat a while ago. Each person had to do something very ordinary in front of the group, like tie their shoes or do a couple of jumping jacks or toss a rock in the air (we were outside), and the others all had to cheer wildly as if the person had done something amazing. It sounds totally goofy, and it is, but it’s also a surprisingly strong emotional boost to have a bunch of people giving you all that positive feedback.

      Not great for a work context, though – it requires a certain amount of buy-in and a few cynics could really keep it from being fun and bonding.

  79. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

    Alison, can you please get some kind of a lid on the weight-shaming in this comment section? It’s incredibly hostile to both the OP and a fair few of your readers.

    1. Katniss*

      Yeah, I feel like a note might be needed that comments regarding the OPs weight are not welcome.

  80. stitchinthyme*

    #1 – I hate all icebreakers. I’ve never had any as egregious as the one in the OP or some of those described in the comments; they’ve all been pretty innocuous, like “build something out of Legos” or “make a poster”, but they nearly always require you to do those things with people you didn’t previously know…and my feeling on that was, if I need to get to know these people as part of my work, I will, but I never saw most of the ones I was forced to do icebreakers with ever again so I didn’t see the point in these activities. I once nearly got into trouble for complaining a little too loudly about one of them; someone heard me and told our VP, who called me into her office. I apologized for being vocal about it, since that *was* unprofessional of me, but not for the sentiment, because I still hate icebreakers. The VP accepted that and there were no further repercussions, but I’m very happy to be at a company now that never does things like that.

    #2 – That kind of reminds me of the one a while back where a woman got hit by a car after her coworker who had severe ornithophobia saw a bird, panicked, and pushed her out of the way in order to run. It was definitely an accident, but the level of injury was enough that it’s understandable that the injured person is not going to just say, “Oh, that’s okay” and move on. I can see both sides on that one — in neither case did the person at fault mean to cause an injury, but in both cases the injury was pretty severe, which makes it a lot harder to just dismiss than if they’d just gotten a bruise or a cut that would heal in a few days.

    #4 – I’d be tempted to find out the contact info for the relative she wants to have my job, and forward the job postings to them with a note like, “Jane is trying to find you a job and so I thought I’d forward you this from her.” (No, I wouldn’t really do it, but I’d be really tempted!)

  81. Madame X*

    LW1 it seems like like some people try to use icebreakers as a short cut to developing close friendships. It is possible that you become such close friends with one of your coworkers that you would feel comfortable sharing intimate details about your past, but that wouldn’t extend to informing the rest of your coworkers. That team leader’s method was insensitive, lazy and misguided.

  82. CMDRBNA*

    It’s actually not okay to demand that someone accept an apology. I know Alison corrected that, but honestly, if someone broke my femur, even if it was an accident, I probably would have a hard time accepting an apology for a while as well. It doesn’t un-break my femur.

    That being said, either these desks are constructed of spiderwebs or they weren’t properly set up, and it sounds like the workplace is trying to CYA. (Also, “sitting on” and “leaning against” a desk aren’t the same thing. I think it’s realistic to expect a desk to withstand someone leaning against it, it might not be realistic to expect it to support 350 pounds plus office equipment.) If a desk is collapsing because someone leaned against it, it’s an unsafe desk.

    That being said, we have moveable conference tables that are designed to have their tops tilted up so you can store or move them, and coworker managed to try to tilt one up so enthusiastically a few weeks ago she flipped the entire table and broke her foot. So.

    A femur break can be a life-altering injury. I had relatively routine surgery on a foot a few years ago and it still aches when its cold or twinges sometimes. I think some more sympathy for someone who had their damn femur broken is in order.

  83. Collie*

    Totally agree with the advice for Anon #3. I have colitis as well and am dreading the day when my meds stop working. No additional advice, but my heart goes out to you, anon!

  84. Susana*

    I’m really sort of floored at how unkind and judgmental some people are being about OP2. I get the sense some people really want to have a conversation about whether it’s morally wrong and socially destructive to be 350 pounds.
    Here’s what we know – OP did NOT sit on the desk, but leaned on it, which is not an outrageous thing to do for someone of any weight. The desk clearly was not built for even normal office use. The co-worker was seriously injured – and from what we’ve herd about femurs, seems a bit of a freak accident – and is refusing to accept OP’s apology.
    Yes, co-worker is in horrible pain, but really – not accepting OP’s apology? OP didn’t do anything wrong. This wasn’t like drunk driving or even distracted driving resulting in an accident. This was fairly normal human/office behavior that ended in a broken femur because of substandard equipment and bad luck.
    The fact that the offie NAMED the OP and made references (to the OP) about OP’s weight is pretty horrifying. At most, office should have said, we had a terrible injury here and want to remind everyone to neither sit on nor lean on the desks. etc.
    This sounds a lot more to me like the company is trying to shift the blame, refusing to take responsibility for having cheap office furniture. And since (as is obviously by some of the hurtful comments I’ve read here), people are eager to shame and blame someone who is heavy, they are getting away with it.
    I’m sorry, OP – I assure you, I would be kind to you if we worked in the same office.

    1. Eye of Sauron*

      Actually I don’t think this has anything to do with the OP’s weight. As many people have mentioned this situation could have easily happened with someone who weighs 101 lbs and up… that encompasses almost every adult in the workplace. It’s not shaming the OP to say that she contributed in a significant way to this injury.

      The bigger thing in my mind is OP being fixated on the apology acceptance of the coworker. Whether his femur or toenail got broken, it’s not his obligation to accept the apology and it really sounds like the LW is trying make him the bad guy to gain sympathy for their ‘side’ of the situation.

      1. Observer*

        I don’t see that at all. The OP is worried about what people in their workplace are saying and thinking. The fact that the coworker hasn’t accepted the apology makes that worse.

        Fundamentally, the real issue is that the management is trying to scapegoat the OP and that sets up a situation where people place blame on the OP being fat.

    2. Guest*

      I can imagine the coworker is angry… sadly many people act like being fat is a deliberate choice or a moral failing, so he might be thinking some unkind things about OP… not kind and not reasonable but there you go. Like you said, everyone likes to blame the heavy person…

      1. Eye of Sauron*

        Or they are angry because they are in pain and likely facing a long recovery and significant alteration to their life.

        It likely has nothing to do with the OP’s weight.

        1. Guest*

          I bet the OP was skinny or average the coworker would put the blame where it belongs, ie facilities dept/

        2. Susana*

          Right, it does not have to do with OP’s weight – which is why the office’s reference to OP weighing “four times” what the desk will hold was cruel and unnecessary. That is why I tend to think the office wants to blame and shame employee instead of its own bad office supplies. I also don’t think OP is obsessed with getting absolution from the injured party – this isn’t like the stalker-isn person who opened someone’s private mail to get an address to apologize to someone for getting angry office mate didn’t say “hi” in the morning (and that writer acknowledged some social issues/problems). This is a worker who is being blamed and ridiculed for an awful accident, and refusing to accept an “I’m sorry” just adds to it. It was just part of the story; not the point of it.

    3. MommyMD*

      I think the seriously injured coworker being called a jerk in the reply fostered sympathy for him. OP needs to offer another sincere apology when coworker is feeling better. I also feel the extent of the injury was being blown off.

  85. Oxford Coma*

    One bad ice breaker I experienced involved asking participants to describe a nickname and how they received it. Not only did multiple people end up rehashing childhood bullying, but some participants took the exercise as tacit permission to start USING the nicknames. That caused both confusion and aggravation.

    1. Summer*

      This icebreaker would have been depressing in my case! I’ve never had a nickname and I’ve always wanted one. :-(

      But woah at the childhood bullying being revived. Not cool!

      1. SarahTheEntwife*

        Me too! The closest thing I could give other than epithets from bullies would be online handles. Sarah doesn’t have any really obvious nicknames and I’ve never had a non-name-related one.

    2. Eye of Sauron*

      Yeah, I’m not sure why anyone would bring up a painful childhood nickname to a group of coworkers… I’d probably just make one up along with the story.

      I always treated ice breakers like I do greetings… When someone asks me in passing “How’s it going” I don’t tell them the truth. I nod and smile and say “Not too bad, you?” and keep going. Icebreakers are the same… nobody really wants to hear the truth… they want a light, short(!), amusing story and to move on. If I don’t have one of those then I’ll just make it up like I would for a “how’s it going” greeting.

  86. anonymous office worker no. 51923*

    #1 – I don’t like most icebreakers, either. They always seem forced. All I’ve ended up learning about my colleagues is random trivia that I’m never going to be asked about, but which is now taking up valuable space in my memory. (Our front desk person can talk like Donald Duck; one of my coworkers in another office is a twin; and so on.) My absolute least favorite was when we each had to choose a color of sticker, which stood for a certain personal question which was revealed after we chose the color. Then we had to write our name and our answer to the question, crumple the paper into a ball, and toss it as far as we could away from us. Then everyone threw them some more. After that, we each picked one up and had to find the other person, and then read their answer out loud. It took several minutes to find the last few wayward papers. All in all, it just took WAY too long when you’re talking 70+ people in a 25X60-ish hotel conference room. Oh, and the “bring a baby picture and try to guess who it is” game might have been okay except for the awkwardness of realizing just how very white our office is. We had one African-American and one Asian-American on our staff at the time…guess which pictures were theirs!!

    #2 What happened to you is my worst work nightmare, I think. I am terrified one day the cube walls will come tumbling down like dominoes while I’m (very gently) leaning on them. I’m still about 85 pounds overweight after losing about 20 so I am very self-conscious about my size. If they continue to be jerks about it, I hope you consider finding a different job. Yes, injuring someone is not good, but as it wasn’t intentional and you’re sorry about it happening, they need to let it go pretty soon.

  87. NB*

    OP#1–When I was in grad school, I participated in a one-week intensive class. It was brutal. Part of the class involved meeting with a daily discussion group (around 10 people) to go over some of the course material. We had an ice breaker each day, that actually did help us connect with each other and get the discussion rolling. One thing that helped was that our TA was ruthless about keeping our responses brief. Here are three ice breakers that I remember from that week: (1) Tell us a 30-second recipe (this was very popular–we actually had an online discussion thread about it later); (2) Show us a picture on your phone and tell us about it; (3) Which 100 Acre Wood character are you feeling like at this point in the week (I think I was Piglet–nervous and storm tossed).

  88. Granny K*

    Another great (and brief) ice breaker: tell us something unique/weird about yourself that nobody here knows about you. (I said I’ve never had a cavity…which is weird considering my age.)

  89. KC without the sunshine band*

    Weird ice breaker – I went to a group (non-work related, all women) where the initial ice breaker was “What in nature do you see yourself as?” Some people said panther, lion and such. I was last in the circle, and by the time it had degenerated into people telling their “birth” stories. Ick. I don’t need to hear about that process from someone I just met. The leader had no control.

  90. Granny K*

    Even if the guy sat on the desk and didn’t lean, people sit on desks frequently. If this company has furniture that is only capable of holding a certain weight a) they should communicate that to their employees and b) maybe stop cheaping out on furniture and buy some new desks.

    1. MommyMD*

      I’ve never seen anyone sit on a coworkers desk in the 20 years I’ve been at my current position. It seems kind of rude to me.

  91. Kate*

    I used to really hate icebreakers and thought they were pointless. But then I taught an intensive 3 week course to a group of people who didn’t know each other. I hadn’t planned an ice breaker, but as soon as I got started teaching I organically thought ‘Crap it is so TENSE in here. I really need to do something to break the ice!’. Followed by ‘oooooh, so THIS is what icebreakers are for’.

    1. Glomarization, Esq.*

      Yeah, done right, they wake everybody up in the morning (or post-lunch) and get people smiling. It can be tricky for a facilitator to choose an innocuous one and run the icebreaker in a way that gets the group cheery, but that’s really what they’re usually all they’re meant to do. Then once everyone is a little relaxed and is in an elevated, awake mood, they’re happier to take on the group’s task.

      Signed, a veteran of hours, nay, days and weeks of strategic planning meetings and such

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I think half the point of an icebreaker is to get the group to bond over how stupid most icebreakers are :)

      1. fposte*

        Heh. I actually usually like them as a thing to do, but mostly I don’t think they earn their allotted time.

    3. Muriel Heslop*

      Our AP who handles teacher inservice has some good icebreakers that relate to our field. “What’s your favorite subject other that the one you teach?” “What’s your favorite quality in a student?” “What did you love about your favorite teacher?” “When you were growing up did you think you would be a teacher? Why or why not?” We always have good discussions. Icebreakers that relate to what your professional does or relate to what the group has in common aren’t too unnerving.

      1. Oxford Coma*

        Teaching inservice ice-breakers are somewhat famous in my social circle for being so badly off-topic! Around here, it seems that most of the specialists/speakers have elementary backgrounds, and they’re fumbling terribly at trying to apply their experience to secondary. The most recent one I heard about (happened this Easter Monday) was an improv exercise about teaching kids to tie their shoes…being given to a room full of honors/AP chemistry teachers.

        1. Muriel Heslop*

          I definitely have had some dringey inservice icebreakers. And yes, almost always the elementary ed facilitators. (I’m secondary also) But some of the ones I’ve read here are downright mercenary. I’ll be more understanding next time and be glad I’m not being asked about scars or trauma!

  92. Q*

    LW#2 there are diseases that can cause weak bones which make them break easily. There can also be issues with imbalances of calcium and vitamin D that lead to potential osteoporosis. It just doesn’t sound right that a desk would break the largest bone in the body, is there a possibility the coworker had an underlying medical condition and had weak bones?

      1. fposte*

        Yes. Plus there are numerous comments upthread from people who broke their femurs or were acquainted with somebody who did without illness being in the mix. It’s not common, but it’s also not freakishly rare.

  93. SheLooksFamiliar*

    Gah. Ice breakers. I hate ’em. Even the ‘cute’ ones.

    A trainer asked us to share our worst childhood memory as an ice breaker. What the what? People were visibly uncomfortable, and the trainer blithely shared her worst experience to get us started. She got punished for something her sibling did. The first few people ignored her pleas to share. It was important that we were ’emotionally intimate’ during this workshop, or some such. Someone raised his hand: ‘Which is more important to you – the frequency of the beatings I got when my father was drunk, or the times I had to go to the hospital?’ You could see the trainer never thought about that. The rest of the workshop went…well, pretty much the way you’d think, with that kind of training mindset.

      1. SheLooksFamiliar*

        We thought so, too. You can bet the surveys were all filled out after this workshop.

  94. Not a Morning Person*

    TLDNR – For OP #1, wow, that “ice breaker” probably broke more than ice! The whole point of an ice breaker is to offer people the chance to learn a little something about coworkers that they might not typically know, but not to have people be embarrassed or troubled or traumatized! A well-designed ice breaker includes thought about the participants and how well they already know one-another, the time necessary, whether it is to make any kind of point about the topic, or just to learn a little tidbit about one another that helps us to be curious, intrigued, or have that “me , too!” experience…in a good way. The set up is also very important. When I ask groups to share, I always indicate that we are not looking for your deepest, darkest, secrets, just something that others might not know, or would find interesting, or find you have something in common. That was a failure of an icebreaker on so many levels and I’m sorry you had to endure that. I hope your feedback included comments that it was not an appropriate topic or use of your time.

  95. Britney*

    I’m a long-standing eyeroller at most icebreakers, but I’ve finally stumbled across one that I *love.*

    (1) Print out a bunch of creative-commons stock photos (e.g., a boat on the water, an old shoe, the side of a brick building, two hands clasping, a wine glass tipped over, a jellyfish underwater, you get the idea), on 8.5×11″ paper. I have about 50 that I use, but always have at least 15-20 more than the size of the group I’m working with.

    (2) Spread the pictures out on the tables, or in the front of the room, and have folks walk around and select “The photo that most represents [X].” Depending on the group, you can tailor this question however you want – if it’s to build personal rapport, the question might be “The picture that most represents your personality/family/work style/job.” If it’s around a specific project, I’ll ask “Select the picture that most represents how your project is going right now.”

    (3) Have folks share, in small groups, why they selected their picture (2-3 mins). Ask for a few folks to share with the larger group why they chose their picture. (I usually don’t force everyone to go around, since I hate forced participation.)

    I like this icebreaker because it can be tailored to just about any group, it incorporates movement and creative thinking, and helps cement faces/names with pictures, which improves recall for a lot of folks. It can be used to start discussion about the actual meeting items, and gives space for people to be sincere/humorous/frustrated/etc. I’ve used it multiple times in facilitated meetings, and legitimately had session evaluations say their favorite part of the meeting was the icebreaker! A++ would recommend, even though I still think most icebreakers are rubbish.

  96. LtBroccoli*

    OP#3 – I wish I had advice but I can only provide sympathy from a fellow UC sufferer. I’ve been at the same company for over ten years but have no desire to explain to my manager exactly why I want to work from home so much lately (I can only do it under rare circumstances). I hope you can get the flare under control and feel better soon!

  97. biff welly*

    I don’t understand this concept of not accepting an apology. I thought that was something that happened in the movies or something. Do people really say that? What does it accomplish? (wondering more generally here not in specific reference to the incident.)

    As to the incident, depending on the country this is clearly a workers comp issue and it sounds like the agency is trying poorly to do some damage control or the facilities person is cya because they have substandard furniture. A desk that only holds 100 pounds is not normal (and likely wasn’t really the case). It was an accident. The coworker got severely injured and sure they are right to be upset, but I’m not sure what not accepting an apology accomplishes.

    1. fposte*

      It’s hard to know exactly what transpired with the apology. I don’t know that it was an old school “Madam, I do not accept your apology”; I’m thinking it might have been more like “I don’t want to hear it; that’s not going to pay my hospital bills” from somebody in the hospital or just discharged. However, we’re also talking somebody who’s still in pain and seriously incapacitated, so I don’t think this counts as their final word on the topic or that it’s unfair they didn’t manage to be as gracious as we might hope.

      I guess for me the apology isn’t that big a part of the issue. Where it’s likely to have some significance is whether the co-worker stays cloudy when he returns to work or if he helps move the office dynamic away from blaming; that may track with accepting an apology but it doesn’t have to.

      1. Tuxedo Cat*

        It could be as simple as the injured saying “Okay” and it being clear that they didn’t accept the apology.

      2. AvonLady Barksdale*

        I agree. You know what’s funny? Reading all of these comments about the apology acceptance reminded me of when I got hit by a car a few months ago. I didn’t think about this until reading this thread. The person who hit me called me (he got my information from the police report) and apologized, said he hoped I would accept it. I thanked him for calling, but I did not outright “accept” his apology. First of all, it was barely six hours after he had hit me with his car and I was in pain and processing a lot of emotions, and second, in the course of the call he also tried to justify his actions, and third, he started the call by telling me how upset HE was and how HE threw up– after he drove away and left me sitting on the side of the road, tended to by strangers.

        He apologized. I don’t have a lot of ill will towards him, and I certainly don’t hate him, but I also did not have to accept his apology. I acknowledged it, sure, but I was pretty angry that he expected me to take on all of his stress and shame when I was the one who, you know, got hit by his car that morning. I guess in saying all this is that he may have hung up the phone thinking I had accepted his apology… or he didn’t. I didn’t scream at him, I didn’t argue, I didn’t figuratively flounce with the “madam” image you mentioned. I just let him speak his piece so I could get off the phone and go back to fixing myself. We can’t know, but if it’s a situation like that, then the co-worker needs space and to be left off the hook.

        1. fposte*

          I was thinking about car accidents too–I think both times that I got hit people apologized, or near as dammit, and I wasn’t really mad at them either time (one was on an icy road after a landmark snowstorm and the other was just a kid who did a bad job assessing stopping distance); nobody was hurt, nobody was drunk or texting or anything, and they both were very apologetic and non-defensive. But I also don’t think I said “That’s okay”–I think I said something like “Hey, it’s the people who matter” and took their insurance info, and that seems fine to me.

        2. Kate 2*

          Thank you! There’s this ridiculous attitude a lot of people seem to have that if you don’t accept an apology and/or forgive you will turn into Gollum, living in a cave and talking about it day and night.

          There are a couple people in my life who wronged me in ways I will never, ever forgive. Unfortunately I still have to see them once in a while. I am civil, you would never know I had anything against them. I don’t think of them when I am not around them. I have a very happy life.

          But I will never ever forgive them. And anyone who dares tell me I would be better off if I did is going to get informed, in detail, of exactly how wrong they are.

  98. ThursdaysGeek*

    I think this is a decent ice-breaker, and it can be modified easily for other situations than what I use it for. When we have visitors to our sunday school class, we play “When I get to heaven”. We go around the room, adding a name each time, so “when I get to heaven I want to see Joan”, “when I get to heaven I want to see Joan and Mario”, “when I get to heaven I want to see Joan and Mario and Heidi.”

    I make sure the new people go near the beginning, so they only have to remember a name or two. Names are repeated, so it helps to learn the names. It’s fairly quick, and other than names, no information is given. It’s inclusive, because everyone is wanted.

    Modify it for work and say “When I’m a manager, I want my team to include …” Or, “when I go to lunch, I am going to invite…”

    1. LBK*

      I’ve played something similar where you say the group is going on a picnic and each person has to say something they’re bringing that starts with the same letter as their name. So if I were first, I’d say “I’m LBK, I’m bringing lemonade,” then the next person would say “I’m Jane, I’m bringing jam; LBK is bringing lemonade,” etc. That way it’s not purely a name memorization game but still doesn’t require sharing of personal info, and it creates a little mnemonic device that helps you remember names.

    2. Typhon Worker Bee*

      Like… “there waiting for me”, or “at some point”? Maybe it’s just that the whole “jerk” thing combined with a bad head cold has thrown me totally off today, but to me that sounds like asking kids to say who in the room they want to die first! o_O

  99. AnitaJ*

    Ugh, 2 truths and a lie. If I never have to do that again, I will be happy.

    Fun icebreakers I’ve encountered: what was your first concert? (or other artistic outing, if you’re not inclined to go to concerts). What is your favorite Thanksgiving food? What was your last vacation/long weekend? What’s your favorite place in (city)? What’s your hometown?

    UN-fun icebreakers I’ve encountered: going around the room at a 100+ person meeting with ‘fun facts’. Literally everyone just talked about their pets. Also–writing a fact about yourself, putting it in a bowl, picking at random, and having to guess who wrote it. Someone pulled “I worked at KFC when I was a teen and I never met my real father”. ……..that was an extremely awkward guessing game.

  100. NNFN*

    And my first job, we had about six weeks of training over the first three months, with a lot of different instructors and a lot of different icebreakers. One of the instructors toward the end of the training asked, “Give me the answer to the icebreaker question you wish I would ask, but don’t tell us what the question is.” Another one asked, “What is the ‘better answer’ you thought of after the fact to any of the icebreaker questions you were asked in a previous training session?” I hate icebreakers, but I thought both of those were kind of clever.

  101. Delphine*

    OP #2, I would say that you don’t need to adjust your behavior or act any specific way at work. You’re obviously contrite about what happened, which is normal, but reasonable people will understand that you didn’t purposefully break the desk and injure your coworker. If I was in such a situation the most I can imagine doing is expressing shock that a desk could break like that and remorse that a coworker was injured.

  102. RegularAnon*

    I would hate that icebreaker! I don’t have any fun scar stories. They’re all from self-harm.

    Also, breaking a leg is serious. My spouse broke theirs several months ago and is still not recovered. And someone who is larger should be mindful of the weight they are putting on things. I am especially clumsy and so I have to similarly be mindful of where my hands and feet are.

    At the same time, those desks are crappy (my desk during grad school was a light, cheap glass model and was rated for 150 pounds on the actual desk and 55 on an attached shelf), and facilities should not be getting on the person about their weight. It doesn’t make him a failure or bad to weigh 350 pounds; all that says about him is that he eats more food than he burns off, or there’s a tiny chance he might have a rare medical problem. It’s not about morals.

  103. GabrielleH*

    I’m a year-round off-site staffer at a small organization (8 in the off-season, 16 in peak season) where the majority of our employees are seasonal and on-site residential, so we really do need ice-breakers every year at staff training because we always have brand-new young people, often people who have moved to our state just for this job. I really like the one we’ve hit on for the past couple years. One of our senior managers created a set of index cards with a question on each side, positive or silly things like “Who do you admire most?” “What’s one new thing you want to do this year?” “What was the first concert you went to?” Everyone gets a card and pairs off, and you each pick a question from your card to ask your partner. Once you’re done chatting, you exchange cards and go find a new partner. This year after about 10 minutes I ended up sidelined with the manager who created it (who sits across from me in the office, so I know her quite well) because everyone had struck up conversations with their 4th or 5th partners and no one was mingling anymore.

    Obviously this isn’t going to work in groups of more than 20, and your goal has to be to inspire real relationships and not to introduce absolutely everyone to everyone else. But as someone who hates being put on the spot and takes awhile to open up to people, I found this one to be really comfortable and enjoyable.

  104. Stacey*

    LW #1, that sounds horrible. My current work place (which I love) has some really nice icebreakers. My favorite is my team. When I was hired and had my “meet the team” meeting, we each had to pick our favorite book character and explain why. For the newest member, we had to state if we liked pancakes or waffles. Really fun.

    1. RegularAnon*

      Those sound great! I also like pet icebreakers as long as they don’t lead to talking about them dying. I could talk about my pets all day!

  105. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

    I work in leadership development and training, so I have lots of thoughts (and experience) with icebreakers.

    Thought 1: It’s important for nearly any training (even if it’s short — and 90 minutes isn’t especially short!) to get people talking to each other very early in the training.

    In some cases, it’s important just to prompt people to be active and engaged throughout the session. In this scenario, asking folks to introduce themselves and respond to some sort of question works well. Most questions will work, but be mindful that you’re not asking questions that some folks can’t answer. “What are you looking forward to this summer?” is good. “Where are you going on your next vacation?” is not; plenty of folks don’t or can’t take vacations.

    In others — if you’re dealing with a difficult or personal topic — it’s important to start to build a sense of community in the room so the training can be successful. A good icebreaker for these scenarios is to ask folks to tell a story about how they got their name (first, last, middle, nickname, whatever). Folks can choose how much they reveal, and the stories often connect to culture and tradition. Vulnerability begets connection, so for those folks who are willing to reveal more of themselves, this exercise will help build the sense of community.

    Thought 2: If you’re training rather than facilitating (that is, if the goal is for the people in the room to have new knowledge, skills, or mindsets at the end of the session), you should start with a prompt that asks folks to consider what they already know about the topic. Adults know things, and our learning is more successful if we can demonstrate what we know and connect it to the new things we’re learning. So, in a training about community organizing, you might ask folks what groups or communities they feel most connected to and how that connection was made strong.

    Thought 3: Unless the group is quite small, most icebreakers work best in small groups or one-on-one. Folks are never going to be super connected to 30 other people in a 90 minute training. But they may make a real connection with the person they have a five minute conversation with.

    Thought 4: Sometimes it’s also valuable for people to move around. An exercise that I use with teams or groups that are connected beyond the training (which I’m sure has a name, but I don’t know it) has everyone stand in a circle to start. Someone says something that is true about them (“I have a daughter,” “I’ve worked here for more than five years,” “I’ve never eaten eggplant,” whatever) and then everyone for whom that is also true comes into the center of the circle and then find a new spot back in the circle.

  106. Student*

    OP #1 – The core problem here is that your trainer asked for way, way too much emotional intimacy for the situation. Icebreakers are meant to speed up emotional intimacy, inherently. This one was icky because talking about major physical injuries is way too much intimacy, even if an icebreaker was called for. Then, even worse in my opinion, the trainer laid out a false dichotomy that further doubled down on even more emotional intimacy. By saying people who don’t want to talk about a physical injury (because it’s too personal!) can instead talk about an emotional trauma (which is very likely more intimate and personal than a physical injury), he’s laying out a false choice between two options, and presenting the much more intimate option as though it’s the less daunting and serious, when it is almost always more serious. That’s basically pushing for deeper emotional intimacy from people who inherently wanted less of it.

    [Note – Yes, some physical injuries can be pretty big emotional issues! But your average physical scar story is usually more “I had an accident” and less “I was attacked by my knife-wielding in-law at my own wedding”]

  107. a1*

    OP2, I’m sorry so many people are derailing, and unrelentingly so, on details not related to your question, and sometimes in ways making you feel questioned. (Although, I agree with Alison that they aren’t questioning you so much as the information you were told). I don’t have much to add to Alison’s advice. Just keep your head down and go about your day like normal. Eventually things will change. And remember, this is not your fault, it was a freak accident.

  108. Elizabeth*

    Can’t stand icebreakers either. Once I had a coworker leading a training in December, so she asked everyone to share their favorite Christmas movie. Seems innocuous enough. Except she didn’t consider the fact that not everyone celebrates Christmas. Not that someone can’t enjoy a Christmas movie without celebrating it, but two people took offense, and let everyone know. It became very awkward, and the question ended up becoming more of an “ice machine”. So, you just never know with personal questions.

  109. Kate*

    I’m normally wary of icebreakers but we had one that I thought was great. Prior to a team retreat, we were asked to submit a photo of ourselves from a recent trip. At the beginning of the session, the host displayed our photos one by one and asked us to each to stand up and tell the group (briefly) about the trip. I realize that this wouldn’t work for every workplace, but we work in a field/organization where pretty much everyone travels to interesting places at least once a year, so no one felt left out, and it also gave me some travel ideas and provided some good conversation starters for cocktail hour later on.

  110. Goya de la Mancha*

    #2 – When I was 9, “I” broke a swing chain (small kid, thick chain) while mid-swing and still have YET to live down the “thunder thighs” comments from some people, because kids (and adults) are a-holes.

    You did NOTHING wrong, and your co-worker, while obviously very hurt, is being a bit of a tool for not accepting your apology. He has every right to be upset/angry/etc. but you didn’t do this on purpose and it was not a goal to harm him. In all honesty, your company needs to buy some decent furniture, . If my desk only held up to 100 lbs, it would collapse from the amount of files I have to store!

  111. Steve*

    Can we just have a general moratorium on sitting or leaning on people’s desks? Who wants their coworkers’ butts to be on their desks? That makes no sense to me. If people need to wait by other people, companies should issue guest chairs.

  112. ket*

    As an Oxford comma lover…
    I read this title and thought that while a letter-writer was sharing her emotional scars as an icebreaker, she somehow broke a desk, in the process injuring a coworker and more! I wondered if they had to act out the scars and if she’d climbed on a desk or something.

    The reality is much sadder on both counts :(

  113. LadyCop*

    #2 I’m aware how serious a broken femur is…and given how difficult it can be to break in the first place, this is clearly a freak accident…which is why I would still call the coworker a jerk for not accepting an apology…seriously people

  114. nep*

    Way late — just seeing this late in the day. FWIW — managers, bosses, anyone in charge: Stop so-called icebreakers. Just stop, forever and ever amen. LW #1, so sorry you had to go through that.

  115. Former Computer Professional*

    Re: #1 — I once had a job where you could not be promoted to management unless you went through Dale Carnegie training. One part of the training is getting each person to get in front of the ‘class’ and tell a highly emotional and/or embarrassing story to “bare your soul.” Everyone who went through the class talked about how everyone would be sitting there sobbing at all the heartbreaking stories.

    I was offered a management position as long as I took the class. I noped the hell outta there and found another job.

    Also, how do you report crappy comments, like the one from the anonymous coward above this?

    1. Former Computer Professional*

      Ha! I meant this to be a post reply, not a reply to the coward.

  116. DCBA*

    #1 – One of the best ice breaks I’ve seen was asking everyone in the group to tell us about their favorite vacation. Everyone has a favorite for a variety of reasons (amazing destination, fun time with friends, family memories, etc). and the answers could actually tell you a lot about the person; if they’re the kind that likes to relax and decompress 100%, or keep an active agenda and do as much fun stuff as they can.

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