job search: following up

A reader writes:

A while back, I wrote to you about an internship that was going well, and the fact that there was a position open at the institution I was interning at. I applied, and got rejected the first time. I thought nothing of it, and went about applying for other opportunities elsewhere.

The week before last, I got an email saying the applicant pool was being reopened, and they were interested in conducting a phone interview with me. I aced that interview, and went on to the in-person interview. That did not goes as well as I anticipated, but it was a good experience nonetheless.

I am now in the process of waiting to hear back. They told me they were hoping to have a decision made by the end of the week. Do I have to wait through the holidays, then? It’s brutal not knowing at this time of year, especially when you are anticipating not getting it.

I am very tempted to email my mentor, who is on the search committee. However, I do not want to come off as pushy. What do you suggest? Honestly, I would rather know now where they are in the process, so I can mentally prepare to continue my job-searching after the holidays if need be.

I know this sucks to deal with, but honestly, the best thing that you can do is to move on mentally right now. That doesn’t mean that I think you didn’t get the job (I have no idea, obviously), but you’re falling into the trap that so many job-seekers fall into where they agonize and stress about hearing an answer, even when they believe they probably didn’t get the position. Why not just assume you didn’t get it and move on? If you eventually hear from them with an offer, what will you have lost by not continuing to agonize the whole time? You’ll have lost nothing, will have gained a couple of angst-free weeks, and will have the bonus of a surprise job offer as well.

If they have something they’re ready to tell you, you’ll hear from them when they’re ready to tell you. Until then, you can’t control when they get in touch with you, but you can control your own reaction. You write, “It’s brutal not knowing at this time of year.” So change that: Assume you didn’t get it and move on. Again, if you’re wrong it’ll be a pleasant surprise.

(And, by the way, I’m not defending employers who leave candidates waiting without an answer after the timeline they gave them has passed. Employers should be more aware of how agonizing this often is for candidates, and they should update people when their initial timelines change, so that you aren’t wondering what the hell is going on and why you haven’t heard a single word. But at the same time, it’s helpful for job-seekers to know that this is incredibly common, and to automatically assume that when an employer says, “You’ll hear from us by Friday,” it probably means “Friday plus a week or two.” Not because you should have to, but because you do have to.)

Give yourself the Christmas present of letting go of your angst on this one — you truly have nothing to lose by doing so.

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This question came up in the comments on a recent post: Is sales really an exception to the “don’t call to follow up” rule?

I’ve written numerous times about how — in most industries — you shouldn’t call to follow up on your job application, because it’s annoying and won’t help your chances … and that more broadly, job seekers need to get rid of the idea that they’re supposed to demonstrate “persistence” or “tenacity” in the job search. Usually, though, I mention that the sales industry is an exception to that rule. (Retail and food service often are too.)

However, a commenter recently asked whether sales really is an exception to this rule, and I realized that I’m skeptical that it truly is. I started adding it because people kept telling me that sales is an exception, but never having worked in sales, I have no first-hand experience to say for sure … and frankly, it sounds implausible to me that sales managers would respond to pushiness any more than any other hiring manager would.

So: People who know, is sales really an exception to the “don’t call to follow up or otherwise be pushy or aggressive in job hunting” rule or is that a myth?

And for everyone else: Here’s your periodic reminder that hiring managers in most industries are not looking for persistence — you cannot make them contact you by repeatedly calling or emailing them, and you’ll annoy them by making repeated overtures without an expression of interest in return.

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A reader writes:

How much effort to connect directly is too much when applying to positions?

I am getting the impression from feedback that supply and demand means employers have to sift through many more applications than they have time to process in any depth. So personal contact / networking and briefer applications may have a better chance of getting through than more detailed applications capable of standing on their own, sent into HR email / online talent management systems’ black holes.

However, I have found results haphazard when doing things like finding/emailing the hiring manager, following up after a week or two, contacting people on LinkedIn to connect, etc. for positions where there is otherwise a strong fit to requirements — in other words, when the application could adequately express my merits.

What are your thoughts on acceptable methods / frequencies and deciding factors to back off or escalate? I have read mixed comments from employers in articles like yours — sustained efforts just annoy some managers, others find the tenacity a selling point.

The extras that you’re talking about make sense when you have connections to the employer, or your connections have connections there. In that case, it makes sense to reach out directly to the person you know there, or to have people you know with connections there reach out directly on your behalf.

But if there’s no personal connection, then you’re generally not going to do yourself much good (and in many cases will just annoy the hiring manager).

Notice that this is a good argument for building those connections before you want to apply for a job somewhere — because if you try to do it after you’ve applied, you will blend into the mass of people who are all trying the same ineffective tactics in order to get their applications noticed.

But assuming you don’t have connections to work with a particular job, then the way you stand out is by being a great candidate:  having a resume that shows a strong track record of getting results in the areas that they’re hiring for, writing a compelling cover letter that doesn’t simply regurgitate information they can find on your resume, and being professional, friendly, and responsive when they contact you.

Honestly, very few hiring managers value “tenacity” in the job application process. More often, “tenacity” reads as pushiness. And the hiring managers who do respond to it — and yes, there are some, although they’re in the minority — are precisely the managers you don’t want to work for: They’re the disorganized ones, the ones who don’t value hiring the right person enough to do their job without prompting from a  candidate, the ones who respond to gimmicks or flashiness over merit when you’re working for them. Guess what your quality of life is going to be like on that job? You really don’t want to screen for them by your behavior in your job search.

Job seekers need to get rid of this idea that they’re supposed to demonstrate “persistence” or “tenacity” in the job search. I know there are self-appointed “experts” out there telling you that, but the reality is that — unless you’re in sales* — that’s not what good employers are looking for.

It’s time to stick that idea in a time capsule and bury it deep in the ground … possibly along with the “experts” pushing that idea.

* Possibly not in sales either, as you’ll see in the comments.

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A reader writes:

About two and a half weeks ago, I submitted my application for a customer service position at a company that I really admire. It’s the kind of company that seems altruistic in its business practices, and besides the perks the company describes for this position, I feel as though at the end of the workday I’d feel good just doing the work itself.

A little over a week after I submitted my application (and after hurricane Sandy raged through the area), I noticed that a member of the hiring team visited my Linkedin.com profile. I didn’t receive an email or phone call, so after another week had passed, I reached out to him personally through Linkedin Inmail and formally introduced myself, stated that I was still interested in the position (mentioning that I understood that after Sandy businesses were still trying to get back into their workflow), and offered to meet for a cup of coffee or maybe an interview so that we could discuss why the company and I would be a good fit.

A few days later, that same recruiter visited my page again. It’s been a couple days since he viewed my profile, and I still haven’t heard anything. I’m no stalker or try hard, and the last thing I want to do is give off the impression that I’m desperate. I truly feel as though getting this job would be a career changer for me, and I know based on my experience, skills, and what the company says its looking for that I would be a great asset to the company.

My question is, how persistent should I be in trying to secure an interview with this company? Common sense tells me not to call or email every day (I’d hate it if someone did it to me), so that’s not a concern. Does an email a week sound reasonable? Should I switch up tactics and contact another employee to see if I can secure an interview that way? Or should I just sit on my hands and wait? If so, how long?

I guess I’m trying to find that fine line between admirable and annoying persistence.

For most hiring managers, there’s no such thing as admirable persistence. Unless you’re in sales, we’re not making interviewing or hiring decisions based on who is or isn’t persistent. We’re making those decisions based on who’s most qualified, and one has nothing to do with the other.

That means that an email a week is way too much. After applying for a job, you can reach out by email once … although many hiring managers, myself included, feel that even that is unnecessary and slightly annoying. After your one email follow-up — which I don’t even recommend unless you can’t control yourself from doing something – do not continue to follow up. At that point, you’ll have expressed interest twice (your initial application and your follow-up). They know you’re interested. If they want to talk to you, they’ll contact you.

You cannot make them contact you by repeatedly asking them to, and if you try that, you’ll annoy them — just like you’d annoy anyone by making repeated overtures without an expression of interest in return. (And the hiring rep’s visit to your LinkedIn page wasn’t an overture back. It was simply a “let me see who this guy is.”)

And no, do not start contacting other employees. You’ve contacted their hiring team twice now. If you start contacting others trying to find another way in the door, you risk looking overly aggressive and like you don’t respect their decision-making process (which, uh, you don’t, apparently), and you risk alienating them completely.

Again, employers aren’t looking for candidates who stand out by being persistent (except in the sales field). They’re just not. They’re looking for the strongest candidates, the ones who show the strongest track record of excelling at what they need … and that’s something your resume and cover letter will convey, not your follow-ups.

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I probably get more questions about how to follow up on a job application or job interview than any other other topic … well, perhaps second only to “is what my employer doing legal?” questions. And I get very tired of answering them, so over at U.S. News & World Report, I’ve rounded up the basics on follow-up:  following up after you apply, following up after an interview, and following up if you have another offer.

You can read it here.

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A reader writes:

After applying to a job, how long do companies usually wait before reviewing resumes to set up interviews? Twelve days ago, I applied to a job that fits me perfectly. It’s what I been doing throughout my career. I feel, based on my background, I should be called for an interview. If I don’t hear from them this week, should I call personnel or call the person looking to fill the position?

How long it takes for companies to set up interviews varies dramatically from company to company. Some employers do interviews on a rolling basis, as strong applications come in. Others have a set application period of, say, three to four weeks (sometimes longer) and don’t contact anyone until that period is over. And others are just really slow — they should be contacting people within a few weeks but because of disorganization, inefficiency, and so forth don’t contact candidates for months.

In other words, there’s no real answer.

You also need to keep in mind that this is a very overcrowded job market and most employers are getting 200, 300, even more applications for every position they advertise. I once got 600 applications for one slot. So you want to keep in mind that statements like “based on my background, I should be called for an interview” don’t really work in this context.  There might be 50 candidates who have the right qualifications for the position. There might be 100. They’re not going to call all of them, so this means that lots of candidates who are indeed qualified aren’t going to be contacted.  They’re going to pick the ones who they judge to be the absolute top tier — relative to the rest of the candidate pool, which is impossible for you to evaluate from the outside. (An awesome cover letter can often help here.)

As for following up … don’t call. They have your application. They know you’re interested. You will annoy them if you call.  (Read this.) What you want to do is to stand out by being a highly qualified candidate with a great resume and a compelling cover letter, not by irritating them with an unnecessary phone call.  (Now, will you occasionally hear from someone who called to follow up on their application and got an interview out of it? Sure, and if you want to screen for disorganized employers where the squeakiest wheel gets the grease, that’s one way to do it. But this will not work with good employers, and you will far, far more often annoy the employer and go to the bottom of their pile.)

If you absolutely must follow up in some way, send a polite email reiterating your strong interest in the job and saying that you’d love to talk when they’re ready to begin scheduling interviews. But that’s it.

It’s not the most encouraging response, I realize — it’s nicer to be told that there are things that you can do to gain some control in the process. But this is the reality of how it works.

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A reader writes:

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