job search: following up

A reader writes:

After applying to a job, how long do companies usually wait before reviewing resumes to set up interviews? Twelve days ago, I applied to a job that fits me perfectly. It’s what I been doing throughout my career. I feel, based on my background, I should be called for an interview. If I don’t hear from them this week, should I call personnel or call the person looking to fill the position?

How long it takes for companies to set up interviews varies dramatically from company to company. Some employers do interviews on a rolling basis, as strong applications come in. Others have a set application period of, say, three to four weeks (sometimes longer) and don’t contact anyone until that period is over. And others are just really slow — they should be contacting people within a few weeks but because of disorganization, inefficiency, and so forth don’t contact candidates for months.

In other words, there’s no real answer.

You also need to keep in mind that this is a very overcrowded job market and most employers are getting 200, 300, even more applications for every position they advertise. I once got 600 applications for one slot. So you want to keep in mind that statements like “based on my background, I should be called for an interview” don’t really work in this context.  There might be 50 candidates who have the right qualifications for the position. There might be 100. They’re not going to call all of them, so this means that lots of candidates who are indeed qualified aren’t going to be contacted.  They’re going to pick the ones who they judge to be the absolute top tier — relative to the rest of the candidate pool, which is impossible for you to evaluate from the outside. (An awesome cover letter can often help here.)

As for following up … don’t call. They have your application. They know you’re interested. You will annoy them if you call.  (Read this.) What you want to do is to stand out by being a highly qualified candidate with a great resume and a compelling cover letter, not by irritating them with an unnecessary phone call.  (Now, will you occasionally hear from someone who called to follow up on their application and got an interview out of it? Sure, and if you want to screen for disorganized employers where the squeakiest wheel gets the grease, that’s one way to do it. But this will not work with good employers, and you will far, far more often annoy the employer and go to the bottom of their pile.)

If you absolutely must follow up in some way, send a polite email reiterating your strong interest in the job and saying that you’d love to talk when they’re ready to begin scheduling interviews. But that’s it.

It’s not the most encouraging response, I realize — it’s nicer to be told that there are things that you can do to gain some control in the process. But this is the reality of how it works.

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A reader writes:

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A reader writes:

I’m about to lose my job (temporary hire for a project that’s almost over) and now am starting the hunt again. I’ve been reading all the advice, going to the free federally-funded we-help-you-get-hired places, and all of them tell you to constantly call, call, call the place you’re applying. Call after you’ve sent in your resume/application to make sure they got it. Call to get an interview if you haven’t heard anything. Call after the interview to thank the interviewer. Call to see if a decision has been made. To me this just sounds… insane. And stalker-ish. 

So, how much contact is too much contact? How much should I give to show I’m interested but not a crazy stalker lady?

Your instincts are right. The advice out there to aggressively call at every opportunity is crap, and is probably being provided by people who either haven’t done much hiring in the last decade or who weren’t that great at it when they did. Here’s why:

1. Being interrupted by an unnecessary phone call is annoying and even arguably rude.  Email is much more courteous, because it allows the person to respond when it’s convenient, rather than having to stop whatever they’re doing to take a call. And remember, you’re not the only one applying; you’ve got to multiply your phone call by the 200+ applicants they likely have for the job

2. I’m organized and competent and thus I don’t need to be reminded of your application, because it’s not going to slip through the cracks. If a great candidate can only get an interview with me by calling to nag me, I’m horrible at my job.  Now, it’s certainly true that plenty of employers are unorganized and incompetent, which is why you’ll occasionally hear a story about someone who called to follow up on their application and got an interview out of it. But if you take that as confirmation that those calls are worth making, you’re self-selecting for bad employers over good ones.

3. The “advice givers” who recommend this aggressive calling routine are generally basing it on the idea that it’ll help you “stand out.” Can I train everyone’s gag reflex to kick in whenever you hear people talk about  ”standing out” in any way other than by being a well-qualified candidate?  You stand out by being a highly qualified candidate, writing a great cover letter, and being responsive, thoughtful, and enthusiastic. You don’t want to stand out for having an overly aggressive, rules-don’t-apply-to-me, pay-attention-to-me-now approach. (And if such an approach actually gets you somewhere at that company, guess what it’s going to be like to work there?)

The one exceptions to the above might be for (a) jobs where they’re actively looking for someone who is aggressive to the point of intrusive and (b) jobs in restaurants or retail, where the convention for calling seems to work differently.

Aside from those exceptions, if you want to communicate with a prospective employer, use email. Times when it’s appropriate to follow up via email are:

* sending a post-interview thank-you note

* checking in about their timeline for next steps, particularly if they’ve exceeded the timeframe you were originally given

* alerting them to a constraint on your own side, such as a deadline for responding to another job offer

* if you’re not local, alerting them that you’ll be in town during certain days and available to meet

I want there to be some kind of career-advice-giving certification — run by me, of course — where we could fine the people giving bad advice on this kind of thing.

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This. Read this immediately.

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This is probably one of the most common questions I get: How and when do you follow up after an interview?

I’ve answered more times than I’d like, and I’m never answering it again.

You can find past writings on it here:

following up after an interview

when to follow up after an interview

calling to follow up after applying for a job

how to follow up after an interview

I intend to never write another word again on it. People will have to use the search feature.

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In a comment on a recent post, Abby wrote:

How do you feel about a job posting that specifically states “no phone calls”? Does it show blatant disregard if a candidate calls or is that person one step ahead of the rest because he/she is the only one calling?

I feel it’s important to follow the guidelines given on a job posting because it shows attention to detail, but I’ve read blog posts where people argue that you should call anyway.

Ugh, personally I hate it. If I say “no calls,” I mean no calls. I’m not just testing applicants to see who will take the initiative to call anyway.

But on the other hand, there are employers where calling actually can help move your application forward, and candidates have no way of knowing from the outside which type of employer they’re dealing with.

I don’t want any phone calls because:

1. Being interrupted by an unnecessary phone call annoys me. I never want job applicants to contact me by phone; I much prefer email, as it allows me to respond when it’s convenient, rather than having to stop whatever I’m doing to take a call.

2. I’m organized. I don’t need to be reminded of your application because it’s not going to slip through the cracks, and I don’t need to be asked for a status update because I keep candidates posted about their status.

3. I mean what I say. If I clearly say “no calls,” I’m going to wonder why you didn’t think it applied to you.

But, on the other hand, many employers are unorganized, don’t necessarily mean what they say, and are more likely to answer their phone than return an email. (Of course, you could argue that those employers might suck and therefore following instructions is a good way to screen out employers who don’t have their act together — but that’s a hard argument to make when you really need a job.)

I’ve heard from plenty of people who called an employer to follow up on their application and had an interview scheduled on the spot. These employers are reinforcing bad behavior and ruining it for the rest of us, and I wish we could fine them or something, but it doesn’t change the fact that it happens.

So I’m hesitant to tell people that they shouldn’t do this just because it annoys me. The best I can say is to pay attention to all the signals you’re getting about how this employer operates and make your decision accordingly.

What do others think?

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A reader writes:

Thanks in advance for your help. I have been applying online for jobs with no success. I never hear back although I am sure to be qualified for the positions I am applying for.

My question is: Is it poor etiquette to call the local company and speak to a manager regarding the position or should I wait for a recruiter to call me? I don’t want to jeopardize my chances of an interview by being presumptuous.

It’s fine to call — once. What you don’t want to do is harass them, but one phone call a few days or a week after you submit your application is fine. It might sound something like this: “I submitted my application for your __ position last week, and I just wanted to make sure my materials were received. I also want to reiterate my interest in the position; I think it might be a great match, and I’d love to talk with you about it when you’re ready to begin scheduling interviews.”

Something like that — short and sweet — is fine. What’s not fine is something that some job-hunting guides advise: saying that you’re calling “to schedule an interview.” You don’t get to decide to schedule the interview; they do, and it’s presumptuous, not “good salesmanship” or whatever those books claim, to pretend otherwise. Someone out there is also advising people to say things like that in their cover letter, which is leading to lots of closing lines like, “I will call you in a week to schedule a time to talk.” Ick.

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A reader writes:

I have been out of the corporate world for two years. I have been a stay-at-home-mom and have only done some (very) PT work, here and there. But recently I have found myself in a position to where I need to return to work full-time.

One of my best friends works for a large and prestigious hospital in our town, in their marketing department. He needs a partner, as the last person who worked as his partner has just quit. It would be my ideal job. I’m qualified for the position, and the hospital has wonderful benefits. He recommended me to the hiring manager, who really likes him and respects his input. The manager said that I needed to follow protocol and put an application through the company’s website. It took a long time for the job opening to post on the website, but when it did, I applied that very morning. I also sent a very well-written and articulate cover letter. My friend immediately informed the hiring manager that I had applied, who in turn, called down to HR and specifically requested my application and resume. Later he summoned my friend into his office and showed him that my resume was sitting on his desk. It sounded pretty promising, and so I anticipated a phone call to set up a first interview.

That was almost two weeks ago, and I have heard nothing. My friend asked the hiring manager today when he would be getting a new partner, as he is inundated with work. The hiring manager replied that he was sorry, and had “lots of irons in the fire,” but asked him, “Have you talked to your friend?” My friend, not wishing to make me sound desperate, said that we had spoken once about the position and that I was still very interested in it. And that was about the extent of the conversation. Why hasn’t the manager called me, if he is asking my friend about me?

Here’s my dilemma: I have no idea how to effectively follow-up with this. It’s kind of a weird situation. HR makes it to where there is absolutely no way to contact their department. They send you a confirmation e-mail stating that they will be in touch should they require an interview. Would finding a way to contact them sound pushy? I’m thinking so, but I have no idea. And I have never met the hiring manager, so it would be kind of odd to try and get in touch with him, right? Should I just wait and see if he contacts me? I’m unsure because while I feel reasonably confident that I will get an interview, I have no way of knowing what other applicants have applied — who have more marketing experience and who haven’t been staying at home, like I have, for the past two years.

I just don’t know how to proceed. I would like to keep the thought of me fresh in his mind, but I don’t want to appear pushy or high maintenance before I even get an interview. But I really, really, really want this job. And I know many other people are clamoring for it. Can you please advise me on what is the right thing to do — and also, what might be going on to where I’m not being contacted? I would greatly appreciate it!

I think your friend is your best tool here — he works there, he has recommended you, and he has an understandable personal interest in getting the job filled. Put him to work on your behalf — he needs to push for hiring to move forward (this is legitimate, since he is stuck doing extra work while the position is vacant) and ideally he’d imply that he’s concerned about losing good candidates, particularly you, the longer things take.

However, on top of that, you can absolutely reach out to the people involved in hiring on your own. Trust me, candidates do this all the time. Simply follow up to reiterate your strong interest in the position and ask what their timeline for interviewing is likely to be. It’s not pushy.

Also, keep in mind that the hiring process often takes longer than a candidate would like, for all sorts of reasons. Nerve-wracking, yes, but don’t read too much into it. Good luck!

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