my hostile colleague says that I now report to him, a work mailbox cleaned out without warning, and more by Alison Green on March 14, 2015 It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go… 1. A work mailbox cleaned out without warning Today my husband came to work to discover his cubby-style mailbox had been cleaned out and his name tag removed. His job requires him to be on the road part of the time, and this morning he had to depart before anyone else had arrived to keep on his schedule, so he did not have time to locate his items. There were several confidential documents from the company in the box (his pay documents are left there for him), as well as some personal effects: his coffee mug and key chain (things generally acceptable to keep there). He was not asked to remove his items, nor informed that they would be removed; he simply came in and they were gone. Unfortunately, he was detained on business long after everyone had departed for the day; when he had the time to look, he found his things on a file cabinet in a somewhat public area where, where for all he knew, they could have been since Friday. Thankfully no one was around, so this letter isn’t to ask how to apologize (and he’s pretty sure they didn’t fire him without telling him). We are discussing this because we both agree if he has a plan, then he is less likely to go off the cuff. Unfortunately I do not personally believe this an innocent oversight (though he will play it off as one if necessary). Due to other circumstances, I am more inclined to suspect unconcerned neglect; if so, it wouldn’t be the first time. My husband is a bit incensed, and neither of us think he should let this go without inquiry, if only because something could have gone missing or been broken as it was handled. What do you advise? (Rest assured I have no intention of interfering or acting in anyway myself, lest anyone think this is my plan. It’s just that we would both rest easier if he had a good way to address this, and an idea of who he should be addressing it to.) It’s certainly reasonable for him to ask why his mailbox was cleaned out and his name tag removed from it, and he should ask whoever the most logical person is (the office admin or whoever oversees the mailboxes). And he can point out that there were confidential materials such as pay documents in there and ask that it be handled differently if items need to be moved in the future. But being incensed seems very of out of place here. I mean, yes, it’s not great to have your space cleaned out without anyone warning you it’s going to happen or telling you why or even telling you where to find your relocated stuff — but sometimes this kind of thing happens, and it’s rarely intended as a slight. It’s the kind of thing that can happen as a matter of course in an office, and people generally just roll with it. Being angry over it would almost certainly come across as an overreaction. It sounds like maybe he’s feeling disrespected for other reasons, but I’d focus on sorting those out and don’t let the mailbox thing become a big deal. 2. I’ve been asked to train another manager, but she won’t meet with me My director asked me to work with a newer manager on our team to improve her reports and time management. The manager is aware of this request. I’ve tried repeatedly to schedule a time to sit down with her, but she has declined each time, saying she is too busy. There is another manager, on a different team, that she often goes to for advice, and I think she is just more comfortable with that person. Should I tell my director or keep reaching out to the manager? Tell your director, because she needs to be aware that the thing she’s asked you to do (and maybe assumes is happening) isn’t happening, through no fault of your own, and she needs to know that if she wants it to happen, she’s apparently going to need to make that clearer to your coworker. I’d say something like this: “I’ve tried repeatedly to schedule time with Jane, but each time she’s said she’s too busy. If you definitely want me to work with her, I think you’ll need to specifically ask her to make the time.” 3. My hostile colleague says that I now report to him I’ve been working at my current job since June 2013. It’s an unorganized media company, but in my offer letter it said that I reported to the head of production. Now, in March 2015, I was told by a hostile colleague that I report to him and to do my review (our first time doing reviews). I’m upset by how it was handled, and, was wondering if there is anything in labor law about notifying the employee about a change in line of management, and, to be told that the day of the review seems not quite right. Nope, the law does not have any stance about who you report to or whether it changes without notification. (The law doesn’t really care about workplace unfairness, as a rule, unless it’s based on you race, religion, sex, national origin, disability, or a small number of other protected characteristics, or if it’s retaliation for engaging in legally protected behavior.) However, it’s bizarre to change who you report to without telling you. (Although I suppose you were in fact told — by the hostile colleague.) I’d go back to the person you’ve been reporting to up until now and say, “Rupert told me that I’m reporting to him now, but that’s the first I’d heard of it. Can you tell me a bit more about what’s going on?” 4. Is it okay to still wear a suit when my interviewer told me the interview is business casual? I’ve got an interview on Monday and the company just sent me a document saying that the dress code for the interview is “business casual.” I always wear skirt suits to interviews, so would it be a faux pas to wear that when I am explicitly told it’s business casual? If so, would pants and a more casual blazer be acceptable? Since they explicitly told you business casual, I’d go with business casual. Many employers would be fine with you still turning up in a suit, but some would wonder why you ignored clear information, and you risk looking like a culture mismatch. Pants and a casual blazer would be perfect. (And more on the entire topic of what to wear to interviews next week!) 5. Am I a back-up candidate? I interviewed for a position two weeks ago, and yesterday I received an email from the HR manager asking me if I’m still interested in the position and/or if I had accepted another offer. Am I a back up candidate? There’s no way to know. You might be a back-up candidate or you might be the top candidate or they might not have even selected finalists yet. All this means is that they’re checking to make sure you’re still a candidate at all — that’s it. You may also like:our office showed a disturbing safety video, am I a mentor now, and morehow to say "no, I won't clean the bathroom"someone or something is deleting our work emails { 83 comments }
BritCred* March 14, 2015 at 3:50 am My first thought was that the hostile coworker was lying and your u don’t work for him now. I’d definitely check this with the person you thought was your manager and mention how badly it was put across!
MK* March 14, 2015 at 5:50 am I think it’s highly unlikely that the coworker is lying outright; it would take a particularly dysfunctional workplace for him to get away with simply giving himself a promotion and everyone going along with it. Surely the coworker would know that the OP would ask about it, or that at some point someone would notice that the OP is reporting to him? But I do think it’s possible that the coworker might be exaggerating the situation; maybe the OP’s manager told him to supervise the OP in a particular project or to informaly help the OP with their work and he chose to interpret this as “I am now your boss”. If he actually has been appointed the OP’s manager, it was pretty unacceptable that the OP was not notified of this by her own boss.
fposte* March 14, 2015 at 10:17 am Agreeing generally, and agreeing with BritCred that you go back to your official manager and ask. But I wouldn’t recommend mentioning “how badly it was put across”–that’s a vent, rather than an actionable item, and it’s going to sour more than it improves.
Dynamic Beige* March 14, 2015 at 10:30 am When I was working full time at a media company, it happened twice that coworkers were given promotions, but both times the changes were announced after the details had been hammered out with the ones being promoted at a general meeting of all concerned in the department. In this day of people wearing many hats, I think a lot of companies think it’s better to give people more responsibilities, but they neglect to consider what it means to have your coworker suddenly become your boss — especially when you know they are not trained in any form of business or management or you may have personal issues with them (or they you). OP3 — by all means go to whomever in your department you used to report to or HR if there is such a person and confirm that this person is indeed now responsible for your reviews. If they are, IMO it’s time to start searching for a new job if you know they are already hostile towards you. This is the person you will be negotiating salary increases with, they will know how much you’re paid (if that information hasn’t already been communicated to them) or other forms of compensation. If they dislike you now, I doubt that they are just going to put on a magic Good Manager hat, set aside whatever their issues with you are and deal with you in a reasonable way. They haven’t received any training to be able to do that and I doubt they will. I had already decided when I was going to give notice when I sat in that meeting and was told that one of my coworkers (who was already above me in terms of title/salary/responsibilities and I also had issues with) was going to become my manager. It only confirmed for me that I was making the right decision to leave if that was the direction the company was going in.
Kyrielle* March 14, 2015 at 3:47 pm I would agree, with the caveat that ‘supervisor’ in some companies may not be identical to ‘manager’. Our team and technical leads give assignments, have primary input into reviews, etc. – but they don’t know or set your salary; your manager (their boss) handles that, based on the budget and the lead’s evaluation of your work. So they can influence, but they don’t know the results.
ZenCat* March 14, 2015 at 6:13 pm +1 I had a very similar situation to this just a few months ago. Hostile coworker announcing management over me, a review, and subsequently an announcement quite a long time later. Before then however, I reported to nobody and my department was very tiny. The timing was poor for him because I’d participated in two protected activities within the same few days the self-announcement was made. This coworker always had a problem with some ADA accommodations I had so when he became manager he took them immediately away, I had to go through HR to apply again, then calling out sick after it wasn’t addressed for whens… I was promptly fired over a speaker phone. So, I deeply understand the feeling of not only working for someone completely hostile, but having them announce it out of the blue. Like Dynamic Beige, not being where I was was clearly the right decision, even if I was voluntold what the decision was.
Sasha LeTour* March 14, 2015 at 11:51 pm Generally, I’d agree. But because of the type of job LW #3 holds, I’d advise him to err on the side of assuming the co-worker is just as likely lying as not, and schedule a quick meeting with his supervisor. In the meeting, he should say exactly what Allison told him to say. I work in advertising, which overlaps quite a bit with media. In addition to being functionally similar, advertising and media attract similar types of employees, toxic and not. In this type of job, a typical toxic employee is the status-obsessed pathological liar who will go so far as to pretend his job is something it isn’t, appoint himself boss when he isn’t, and take credit for work where he shouldn’t. My agency is considered one of the best on a global scale, and there are 4 of these types on my floor alone. The company doesn’t have to be particularly disorganized to provide a perfect breeding ground for enabling their behavior either. Mine is well-run, but busy and understaffed, like most ‘creative’ employers, which is why these toadying jerks get away with it for as long as they do. Fortunately, one of our jerks was let go just this past January after his many years of bullying people into submission, forcibly managing them when he shouldn’t have, and stealing their work along with all credit for it, came to a head in front of a particularly observant client team. Several years ago, I had a run-in with that guy, and it went exactly like LW #3 describes. My boss was out of the country on business for 3 weeks, and 2 days into her trip. the jerk took that opportunity to saunter up to me, order me to move all my things into a vacated cubicle by his, and prepare to report to him first thing Monday morning. When my boss came back, I set up a meeting with her and said, “Hey, just want you to know, on February 1st, Harry mentioned that I’m to report to him going forward, and I wanted to check with you and see if there’s anything else I should know.” My boss said, “What? That’s crazy. You don’t report to Harry. I’M his boss, same as you. If he tries that again, tell him to [x] and [y] and [z].” Harrys are common in ‘creative’ fields, and particularly enjoy targeting people who are good at their jobs, but don’t act like they’re “hot s–t” if you know what I mean…they’re not driven by ego or status, but by a love of their craft, whatever it is. I wonder if you fit that description. I suspect that you do. Generally, I find that people who write in to/read AAM are in the upper quintile of employees. You have to be more than decent at your job and care about your career enough to constantly be bettering yourself like that.
Collarbone High* March 15, 2015 at 10:49 am I worked for years with a guy (also in media) who wasn’t that egregious, but he was an expert at using language to empire-build in people’s minds. If someone in another department asked him “Do you know if Collarbone’s available to work on Project X?”, he’d say “I’ll have her stop by your office to discuss it” or “I’ll tell her to make herself available,” giving them the impression he was my supervisor. (He wasn’t.) He’d also do things like volunteer to collect all the time sheets for our department, then tell the staff “[Manager] said all time sheets have to go through me from now on.” It always reminded me of Dwight Schrute calling himself Assistant Regional Manager instead of Assistant to the Regional Manager. In this case it was also a gendered thing, where he’d tell equal-level women “I need you to do X,” and we probably had five conversations a week where I’d say, “I don’t work for you, if you want my help with something you need to ask for it, not demand it,” and he’d say “I don’t know why you’re being so hostile about this, it’s just the way I talk.” (to women) Definitely ask your manager about this, because as Billie Jean wisely reminded us, sometimes a lie becomes the truth.
M-C* March 15, 2015 at 3:08 pm +1 It’d take more disorganization for you not to be informed by your ex manager that you’re now reporting to a new one, no matter how casually. So either the schmuck is lying, or it’s time to polish up the resume. Give your current boss and benefit of the doubt and check it out with him. Don’t pass up this opportunity to let him know that you wouldn’t consider the schmuck an acceptable manager for x y z reasons, if the answer is not immediately “sure you work for him now, did I forget to tell you?” Try to work up a couple obvious reasons why promoting him would not be in the company’s best interest. And good luck OP, this situation sucks so much. I can’t tell you how many great jobs have been ruined by this self-promotion of ‘Harrys”..
eemmzz* March 14, 2015 at 6:42 am OP 5: Does it matter if you are? I know there’s a stigma around being the second choice but it doesn’t mean that they don’t find the candidate to be a good fit, all it means is that a different candidate was even stronger. As Alison already said: there’s no way to know where in the running you are. It’s best to just respond to their question and then mentally move on.
Ops Analyst* March 14, 2015 at 10:12 am Totally agree. My first job out of college I was I was initially rejected for. Two weeks later they contacted me to say the other candidate turned them down and they offered it to me. I was just excited to get the job. I really didn’t care that o was second choice. I did learn later on that the other person had masters degree, which I thought was pretty unfair because this particular job was advertised as a position specifically intended for people in my field to get experience right out of college, before moving on to a masters. But I guess there was something about that candidate that inspired them to give it to her. It didn’t mean they didn’t like me or think I was valuable. It was just the way it worked out. Also, there are all sorts of reasons first choices don’t work out, even without an offer ever getting to them. So either way you can never really know if you’re a first choice unless they outright tell you. If they are moving you on in the process or offering you a job then it’s because they think you are strong.
Anonymous Educator* March 14, 2015 at 1:57 pm Yeah, I don’t get the stigma at all. I’ve been in several jobs I knew I wasn’t the first choice for, and I performed quite well at those. It matters a lot less how you’re perceived as a candidate than how you’re perceived as an actual employee. Assessments of candidates are best guesses. As an example, one time I was part of a hiring committee for a teacher in our department. We had several candidates come through, none of whom stood out as amazing, so we deliberated on whether we should hire one candidate who seemed just okay (good but not great) or extend the search. We ended up taking a risk on the “good but not great” candidate and you know what? He turned out, once hired, to be an amazing teacher! It really really really really does not matter how good of a candidate they guessed you would be during the hiring process. It matters a lot more how good you are once you get there.
My 2 Cents* March 14, 2015 at 7:52 am OP #4, not to add worry to you, but I got screwed by this once. I was told I had a formality interview, one last person to meet with before being offered the job, and was told that as long as I don’t show up in pajamas then I am fine. I still dressed up in slacks and a dress shirt, but not a full suit, and after the formality interview was specifically NOT given the job because I didn’t wear a suit, even though I was told I didn’t need to. I was furious.
Oryx* March 14, 2015 at 8:50 am They actually *told* you that’s what you didn’t get the job? That’s crazy.
Remy* March 14, 2015 at 11:32 am This sounds like one of those bad test-type type things some interviewers are known for pulling on every candidate. I recall stories of one man who part-way through an interview would swivel his chair around so the candidate would see his back and ask them to describe his tie — anyone who couldn’t didn’t pay attention to detail and wasn’t hired.
Ella* March 14, 2015 at 12:00 pm “We’re actually looking for someone who refuses to take feedback and instruction and does whatever they judge to be appropriate, are you that person?”
Stranger than fiction* March 14, 2015 at 4:17 pm Wait they actually admitted that was the reason after specifically telling you you need not worry about the attire?!
Sam* March 14, 2015 at 8:10 am OP #1 – I wonder if someone thought that they were actually being helpful (misguided, but helpful). It sounds like your husband isn’t in the office very often and maybe someone thought that his (as you say) confidential documentation shouldn’t be left out in an easily accessible area like a cubby for long stretches of time. Obviously if that’s the case, they went about it the wrong way, but if your husband at least has some possibly benign explanations in his head before any conversation, it may also help the tone of any conversation he needs to have about why this is still a problem (I.e., “I know it’s possible that someone thought they were helping by hiding my pay stubs from prying eyes while I was out of the office, but no one told me where my stuff was….”)
Sam* March 14, 2015 at 8:12 am And I just re-read and saw they were left “on” a file cabinet and not “in” a file cabinet, so maybe I’m being too generous.
Girasol* March 14, 2015 at 8:48 am I was wondering if there might be some mistake – a new admin was told to clean out someone else’s box and got the instructions wrong. I remember several times when I’ve drawn entirely the wrong conclusion and end up embarrassed at pitching a fuss over nothing.
jamlady* March 14, 2015 at 8:52 am And so easy to do if you’re in an environment where little things like this happen all the time.
Traveler* March 14, 2015 at 10:30 am Or that it hadn’t been cleaned out in so long that they thought the person had left or something of that nature. I’m trying to take OP at their word though that it wasn’t an innocent oversight – I assume they have more information that makes them think this was intentionally done for some reason, knowing full well he still worked there/had been storing his items there. I think we just don’t have the whole picture if he’s this upset about it.
Ella* March 14, 2015 at 12:08 pm Depending on how much time Husband spends on the road (or working from home), I suppose it’s possible that a new admin could think the cubby was “abandoned”? Or maybe there’s new staff that will be in the office all the time and no spare cubbies, so they thought they could find alternate arrangements for the husband’s stuff, since he travels? Or a neurotic manager who just can’t stand it if th cubbies look messy. None of those are great reasons, or even mildly good reasons, for moving his stuff. But they all at least get it into the field of “had a reason, handled it badly” rather than “firing husband in the most horrendous fashion.”
OP1* March 15, 2015 at 2:14 am Wow I am surprised my question for Alison made Saturday’s quick questions list, I figured it was pretty boring! As it would turn out, you are right, they “had a reason, handled it badly” (in my opinion). We didn’t think it was likely that he was “fired in the most horrendous fashion,” but Office Space was fresh on our minds, particularly the scene where instead of informing Milton that he was let go, they just stop his pay checks because they “Like to avoid confrontation wherever possible.” Kind of what happened, I will explain more below.
Meg Murry* March 14, 2015 at 1:33 pm Or the could have decided to re-arrange the mailboxes to put them in alphabetical order or by department, or something spilled in a different box, or they are getting new mailboxes or any number of reasons why they got cleaned out and either didn’t get a chance to put back his stuff, or thought he should go through it before they put it back. Possibly they verbally told everyone in the office, but missed him since he wasn’t there. Annoying? Yes. Worth getting worked up and furious about? No. Don’t attribute to malice what could instead be simple cluelessness or incompetence. Just ask “Hey, what happened, why is everything out of my box?” And then he should probably plan to use it simply as a place for incoming mail to go, not somewhere he stores things long term, especially if they are important, like pay stubs.
ExceptionToTheRule* March 14, 2015 at 8:24 am OP3 – the production department that I work in for a media company has been reorganized about every 3 to 4 years and in 18 years I’ve reported to 6 different managers. Sometimes we got an email and sometimes my new manager would grab me in the hallway and say almost exactly what you heard. If you had no inkling this was on the horizon, you should do exactly what Alison suggests. Find whomever used to be the department head and ask for clarification. Media companies are notoriously the absolute WORST companies in the world at communicating and can rely far too heavily on gossip to spread the word of changes.
Hearts On Fire* March 14, 2015 at 9:16 am I’ve been with my current company for almost four years. Since September 2014, I’ve had four different managers. Our area is constantly reorging and it makes me so nervous. I’m looking for other positions, of course.
Business Casual* March 14, 2015 at 9:01 am I would try and Google the company’s dress code if you can. My company is in consulting, so while our dress code is business casual, the list of acceptable items go from what Alison suggested all the way up to a suit without a tie. My go to outfit has been to wear a nice thin sweater and a suit jacket.
hayling* March 14, 2015 at 12:20 pm But if they told her business casual for the interview, she should wear business casual! A full suit is not business casual, it’s too formal.
Business Casual* March 14, 2015 at 2:35 pm What I was trying to say is that in some companies, a full suit still counts as business casual, as long as you’re not wearing a tie. That’s the case for mine, and they explicitly state this in their policies. Most people at work wander around in suits substitutibg formal shirts and ties underneath for sweaters. Or they go with the sweater over formal shirt look. Meanwhile, if people dressed as suggested in some of the Google image searches I’ve done for business casual, they’d stick out like a sore thumb. I think it’s not a bad idea to try and get an idea for the company culture to see their definition of business casual, because it’s not a strict definition. You say that my outfit is too formal, but it’s the norm for business casual where I work, so already we see potential pitfalls of people with differing expectations. If OP can’t find the information, I like Meg’s suggestion of bringing a suit jacket that can be taken off to appear less formal if needed or can be kept on.
Ask a Manager* Post authorMarch 14, 2015 at 12:33 pm The important thing to remember is that the company’s dress code isn’t necessarily the same thing as interview dress code. For example, many business casual companies still expect interviewees to a wear a suit. In this case, they told her that the interview dress code is business casual, and that’s what she should go on (not what their day to day dress code is).
Meg Murry* March 14, 2015 at 1:52 pm Yes, as long as the document clearly said the interview dress code was business causal and wasn’t refering to the company dress code, I think Alison is right that she should go for something like blazer and dress pants. Or if all she has in her closet is suits, try mixing them – for instance, a black suit jacket with charcoal suit pants would read less formal than a head to toe matching suit. I would also make sure the OP wears something under the blazer/suit jacket that she is comfortable wearing on its own with the pants, in case the interviewers are super casual and she feels way overdressed her jacket – so for me that would be a blouse or lightweight sweater with sleeves (short or long – weather dependent) instead of a sleeveless shell. Or if OP prefers skirts, the replace everywhere I said pants above with suit skirt or pencil skirt.
OP4* March 14, 2015 at 3:47 pm Hi all, Thanks for the input! OP4 here. They sent me a packet of information for the information which included a box describing the interview as business casual. The company is very casual otherwise (workout clothes are acceptable) so it probably would be a bit uncomfortable if I were in a full suit and was being interviewed by someone in workout clothes.
Elizabeth West* March 14, 2015 at 6:33 pm That happened to me in my second interview–I was specifically told not to wear a suit as the office was very casual. So I wore khakis, but with a blazer. My teammates interviewed me in sweatshirts. I’m still glad I didn’t go completely casual–that would have felt even weirder to me.
Zahra* March 16, 2015 at 8:52 am I got that feeling when I interviewed for a game company. I know the dress code in video game companies is casual, with lots of shirts with game, bands, company logos, etc. but I still went with a suit. Once I got there, though, I did address it as feeling “overdressed for the occasion”. They said it was fine and that it happened a lot. Same with my current company. Although, for the second interview, I dressed down a bit to match the company’s dress code (slacks or jeans with a t-shirt, mostly). Since culture fit was explicitly very important, I wanted to show that I could fit in.
Ops Analyst* March 14, 2015 at 9:25 am #2 – What about emailing coworker and copying your director? “Coworker, I’d still like to meet with you regarding X. I know your schedule has been full so perhaps you can pick a couple of times that will work for you so we can get something on the books. Thanks!” That way you’re both notifying director and giving your coworker to schedule it.
Traveler* March 14, 2015 at 10:31 am There are a lot of offices where doing something like this would be seen as disrespectful.
Sigrid* March 14, 2015 at 11:18 am I agree with Traveler. That’s a pretty passive-aggressive way to go about it, and in many offices, it would be seen as rude. Unless OP has a pressing reason to think that telling her manager would be a bad idea (and it doesn’t seem like there is any reason that would be the case), she’s best off just raising it with her manager directly.
OP2* March 14, 2015 at 11:47 pm I’m the person with the second question. I am hesitant to go to my director because I don’t want it to seem as though I’m “tattling”. I feel like the other manager is more comfortable approaching other members of the team for help, and I don’t want to push myself on her.
Jessa* March 15, 2015 at 12:23 am I agree with Alison you need to talk to Boss, especially since you’re supposed to be helping someone with time management issues and they tell you they do not have TIME. The whole point of the meeting is to go through their routine and help them find time. Either go to this person and explain “Look, the purpose of these meetings as Boss has told you is to deal with time issues. We must do this. It will enable you to have more time after we’ve done it. Time must be made. We must meet by x time, x day,” or tell boss and let boss deal. But you can’t let the manager get away with using the very reason she’s been assigned to meet with you to blow you off. What else is she blowing off because of her unaddressed poor time skills? Also just because she asks other person for help, does not mean that A: other person specifically knows that management has a goal regarding her learning time skills, or B: you have been assigned to deal with this. She can still ask other people for help, while she meets with you like her boss told her to.
Ask a Manager* Post authorMarch 15, 2015 at 12:45 am It’s not tattling. It would actually be negligent not to let your manager know you haven’t been able to make this happen yet; otherwise she’s going to assume that it has, because you haven’t told her otherwise. I’d be very frustrated if I asked you to do this and then found out down the road that it hadn’t and that you hadn’t circled back to tell me what was going on.
Mallory Janis Ian* March 15, 2015 at 4:12 pm Yes, your manager is going to want to know that you haven’t been able to start these meetings, and why. I was in a situation once where my bosses wanted me, in particular, to be the one to assist with onboarding a new employee who was a couple steps above me on the hierarchy. They made it clear that they had particular reasons that they wanted me, specifically, to do it, and why they specifically did *not* want another of my peers to do it. It had to do more with the soft skills / attitude side of the job rather than anything having to do with specific tasks. But they wanted me assisting her with the specific tasks with the underlying purpose of exemplifying the attitude they wanted to foster in our company culture. Problem was, my peer who they specifically did not want involved in this task, very much wanted to be involved in the task. She took pride in being a go-to person herself, so she would proactively seek to arrange meetings with the new employee and establish herself as the go-to person. I’m more of a behind-the scenes person, so if I hadn’t been particularly instructed that the new employee was to learn from me, I would have just left the situation alone and let my more eager peer have at it. However, since my bosses had clearly stated that they wanted me to be the main point of contact for the new employee, and that there were problems with my peer’s attitude that they didn’t want to be the new employee’s first experience in learning her job, I went to my bosses and told them what was going on. My bosses then talked to the new employee and told her that I should be her first point of contact if she had any questions; they ended up having to specifically tell her that she should give my input more weight and take my peer’s input with a grain of salt. They suggested to both of us that we set up a regular recurring meeting for the first month or so of her employment, which pretty much took up any time that my interfering peer would have had. Tl;dr: your boss may have a particular reason for wanting you to be the one to work with the new employee, or a particular reason for not wanting the other manager to do it. And the boss can assist with making it happen if she sees that you’re having trouble making it so.
The Cosmic Avenger* March 15, 2015 at 3:37 pm Maybe you can say to the new manager something like “Sansa, we need to find a time to meet next week — the director asked me to meet with you X weeks ago, and I’m concerned he’ll ask me about it soon.” Of course, the director wanted you to do more than just meet with her once, but that’s easier to work out once you get your face-to-face meeting with her.
OhNo* March 14, 2015 at 3:20 pm It might make sense to copy the manager on such an email, if (and only if!) they requested it in advance, but otherwise I agree that it would probably just seem passive aggressive. Plus, you never know – maybe the manager forgot about it entirely and would be extremely confused to be copied on such an email with no prior warning. Better to ask them first, just in case.
Traveler* March 14, 2015 at 10:26 am #1 In almost every office I’ve worked in (save the ones that required specific security protocols), this sort of thing has happened. In fact its gone beyond my mail cubby, to well everywhere – my office, my desk, etc. For some people moving other people’s items around is not seen as invasive or something that would offend someone. I know if I came at those people with a diatribe about moving my things they’d look at me like I was from another planet because that’s just normal for them. They see any and all work place things as things they could/should have access to. I know you said you don’t think it was an innocent oversight, but that it was unconcerned neglect – but for a lot of people, these are the same things because they won’t see it as neglect. I think the better option would be for your husband to clean out his mail area as often as possible, and keep things like his name tag on his person if possible.
Chuchundra* March 14, 2015 at 11:20 am I’ve never had a regular office job, so maybe my experience is different, but I can’t imagine someone cleaning out and reassigning my assigned storage area without at least giving me some kind of heads up (a note, an email, something) and letting me know where I can find my stuff. I mean, OP1’s husband’s stuff, including potentially sensitive paperwork, was just randomly left on top of a file cabinet somewhere else in the office.
Traveler* March 14, 2015 at 7:05 pm I’ve had the mail/storage area thing happen. The person who did it told someone to tell me when/why, but then forgot until I approached them about it. I also worked at one place where a person would take all of the food out of the fridge and just toss it out or leave it out on a counter whenever they felt. Then, after hours of sitting out, they’d put it back in, without ever telling anyone. I am by no means defending that sort of thing – just that I think its easier to be proactive and keep anything important on my person when possible.
Shortie* March 14, 2015 at 3:16 pm I once came back from a business trip to find a new employee sitting in my office. When I asked her if she had been seated there temporarily until they found her a spot (innocent question!), she stared at me blankly and said it was her permanent spot. Come to find out, they had moved my office into a less desirable spot without telling me. When I asked why, they explained it was because she was older (she was about 45 years older than me). This infuriated me, although I still can’t logically explain why. It just did. Humans are emotional creatures!
peanut butter kisses* March 14, 2015 at 6:29 pm I knew someone whose e-mail address was given to someone else who was newly hired. She had had it for about ten years at the company. We do the thing where you do the first initial then your last name and then the @yourcompany dot com. They didn’t think she would mind since she was a woman and was likely to get married and change her name anyway.
Snoskred* March 14, 2015 at 8:43 pm I would actually recommend that if there is no cubby box from now on, that the husband get a small basket or storage box and put his name on the front, and keep all his stuff inside. :) This is good for two reasons – if anyone (eg the payroll people) are looking for where to put his payslips they will find it easily. If anyone is looking for a place to leave him a present or a note or return something to him, they know where to put it. Also everyone would know that basket belongs to him and so does the stuff inside. I worked in a place where people had zero respect for other peoples stuff, and I am not someone who flies by the seat of my pants. I need stuff. I need a lot of stuff. Everything from tissues to paper towel to teabags to pens, I kept in a very large storage box with a lid that clearly had my name on it. Otherwise I had to bring everything to and from work every day and it was ridiculous carrying a huge amount of stuff around. I stored it in a place that unless you were super tall, you’d have trouble reaching it. Even so, there were people who would steal my tissues and paper towel on a regular basis – work did not provide any – and I got so sick of that, I decided to bring my these items with me daily and not leave them in the box for people to steal. I had a small box which I used to carry in my water, snacks and handbag, so I just got a slightly larger one and added tissue and paper towel to it. It is possible I am a little OCD, but that is still no excuse for people to steal stuff that does not belong to them. :)
OP1* March 15, 2015 at 7:20 am “…that is still no excuse for people to steal stuff that does not belong to them. :)” Amen and Aloha! I wish companies and workers had more regard for their fellow workers’ personal property. I am sorry that you had to work in a place like that, and I hope for your sake that has changed for the better. The Caddy to – and – from work thing is what my husband is doing now, since he definitely needs supplies but has nowhere to put them anymore. He brought his mug home and is no longer drinking coffee at work since he would otherwise have to bring it back and forth from the car and he doesn’t want to break it. The wire basket would definitely be a good idea, but unfortunately nobody seems to think he should need one, so he hasn’t been given the space for anything that doesn’t go home with him at the end of the day (his locker is small and barely has room for his hard hat and other PPE.) Thank you Snoskred, I hope things will be looking up soon for everyone soon.
OP1* March 15, 2015 at 3:33 am Hello Traveler, one thing I was not clear about in the letter, was that it was cubby label that was removed. I meant that, when I said name tag, not a tag worn on a person, sorry. Anyway, as it stands my husband no longer has a cubby, just a small locker for his gear (for now). Someone (not entirely clear who), decided that his position was no longer significantly ranked enough to have a cubby, and so HR ordered it emptied. Considering that shipping and receiving leaves empty cardboard boxes by the cubby corner all the time, we agreed the least they could have done was put his things in a box for him, if only for their convenience! To carry his stuff the distance they did, and to stack it on top of the filing cabinet without bothering to move the stuff that was already there (I didn’t know that before) I am surprised nothing was dropped or misplaced. While his personal items were nothing of real value, and fairly replaceable even, they were breakable. The company discontinued disposible coffee cups sometime ago, and told employees to bring their own from home. Only admin is really allowed to keep theirs in the kitchen cupboards, those with cubbys are allowed to keep them there. Now weeks later, his cubby sits empty and I am even more displeased because I know if my husband had been asked, he would have been happy to grab a box and clean it out, it would have taken him less than a minute to do so. The fact that there was absolutely no rush, no notice, and no apology afterwards (nothing glamourous or even sincere, just something to acknowledge the twenty minutes he spent looking for his stuff)…
OP1* March 15, 2015 at 6:22 am So… I have to cop to a “My Bad” here. In my original letter to Alison I used the word “incensed” to describe my husband’s feelings. I was under the mistaken impression that it was a classier way to say “annoyed” or “irritated” or “miffed” but when I looked it up, (partly because Alison seemed to think it was a bit strong, and that surprised me) I discovered it was synonym for “enraged.” No wonder! Although I cannot say my husband was happy, I can safely say he was no where near “enraged” and I am sorry if anyone believed us to think it was an affront at that level. Thank you everyone for your feedback by the way, we both really appreciate it!
Not So NewReader* March 15, 2015 at 3:53 pm wow. All this is a very opposite experience from what I have seen. What I have seen is that moving one’s things is a huge no-no. Annnnd moving it to an undisclosed area is total slap in the face. I’m impressed to see most people are taking it pretty calmly. Personal experience says that what happens next is pretty ugly/nasty. However, putting all that to one side. OP’s paychecks went missing. They could not give a quick call or email to tell him where to find them? Really? Maybe it’s just me, but it is not okay to keep my paycheck from me. I am having difficulty seeing this as normal.
jag* March 15, 2015 at 8:32 pm I think most people are taking it calmly because we know that most people in offices don’t go around intentionally slapping people’s faces. It’s clearly a screw-up and probably unintentional. Unless there is a pattern of being disrespected, it’s not worth getting angry over a screw up. Annoyed yes, but not worked up too much.
Anonymous for this* March 14, 2015 at 10:55 am OP3: One time I had a coworker who acted like I worked for her. She was insecure and she wanted to be the boss of somebody. It didn’t actually mean anything about my job. Ask your manager or former manager what’s going on. You should get an explanation from someone other than your coworker.
BRR* March 14, 2015 at 10:59 am #2 Reminds me that I would love a post on work place tattling. We had a project this week that I was managing and a new employee (senior to me) made a couple small mistakes. They were very small and I just went ahead and fixed them because they were tiny and really not a big deal but she’s new so I wasn’t sure if I should tell her manager just so she knew. But then I felt like it was tattling.
Ask a Manager* Post authorMarch 14, 2015 at 12:36 pm Are you telling to get her in trouble (no, presumably) or to bring a potential issue to your manager’s attention* (yes, presumably)? The latter is not tattling; it’s being a helpful, engaged member of your team! * So that she can observe more closely, give more coaching, or whatever
jamlady* March 14, 2015 at 2:29 pm I worked a very short contract once early in my career and I was making 2 very small mistakes in my reports and I was making them repeatedly because no one told me otherwise. My supervisor just fixed them and moved on because, as you said, it’s not really a big deal. However, when I applied for my next contract, the sample I sent along had those mistakes (though of course I had no idea) and they sent it back saying they weren’t interested because of said mistakes. Not a big deal to you because you can fix it, but this employee should be given the proper information in order to do her job correctly. I was really upset that my supervisor never took the time to correct me – after all, they’re small mistakes, so they don’t take very long to talk about. Plus, isn’t it just better for everyone if it’s done right the first time?
Shortie* March 14, 2015 at 4:46 pm I would actually tell the person directly in a non-threatening way, perhaps just treating as routine by saying something like, “Thanks for getting that to me. FYI, I changed ____ and ____ because [insert reason here].” I wouldn’t head to someone’s manager unless it was the second time or unless they had already proven that they’re not receptive.
Kat* March 14, 2015 at 12:39 pm #1- How messy was his cubby before someone moved stuff? If people’s mailboxes/cubbies get too messy and look like nothing is ever gone through, the boss or his admin assistant would take everything out and put it in a box for the employee to deal with. I’ve also come in to work to find I no longer had a mailbox of my own. They took the aides boxes to use for others. I ended up sharing with a member of my team. Thankfully she was as picky as I was about keeping it empty/organized. It’s definitely not worth getting upset over, especially since he’s rarely in the office. One of the aides threw a fit in front of everyone and was sent home. It was embarrassing for everyone present and people started treating her with kid gloves.
Sarah* March 14, 2015 at 2:11 pm OP#1 – I have found over the years that there are very, very few reasons for me to be “incensed” in the workplace. Even if I’m totally in the right, if I let my strong feelings show, I lose ground. Especially over a mailbox cleaned out.
OP1* March 15, 2015 at 4:30 am I completely agree with you Sarah. Just for the record I really had a hard time coming up with a good word to describe our collective feelings for the purpose of the letter. Incensed, displeased, unhappy… disquieted? (That last one seems creepy, but perhaps closer than incensed). In any case we were discussing ways he could bring it up without being counterproductive to his cause at work. Although if he wasn’t miffed? about this, I am not sure there would have been a reason to ask for advice.
Merry and Bright* March 14, 2015 at 2:49 pm OP#1 Whatever the rights and wrongs of untidy mailboxes, good management should have informed her husband of what they were doing. Also, his private financial information should not have been left lying around for anyone to pick up.
Editor* March 14, 2015 at 8:13 pm I am surprised by the pay stubs in the mailbox. Why aren’t they just mailed to him? When he got home from the trip, he’d have a stack of mail from work to open, but the stubs wouldn’t be sitting around at work. At my employer, it’s a moot point. They just went paperless. Previous employer was paperless, too — you had to log in online to see the pay stub.
OP1* March 15, 2015 at 6:37 am Hello Editor! The reason the paystubs went in his “cubby” rather than being mailed was because the company prefers to save on postage but is not ready to go paperless in the near future. Apparently everyone will soon have to take the time to personally collect and sign for them each payday, for whatever reason.
Dmented Kitty* March 17, 2015 at 2:27 pm I hope they are still in those security envelopes though. I’ve had pay stubs that were left in my office mailbox, but at least they are in sealed envelopes (the one where you have to tear off three of the perforated edges so you can unfold it). That doesn’t stop anyone from stealing it or opening it, but if that happens then at least you know someone has dug into your personal info.
jag* March 15, 2015 at 8:48 pm “Why aren’t they just mailed to him? ” Saves postage cost. Saves the time of putting postage on the envelopes.
OP1* March 15, 2015 at 6:58 am I am glad I am not the only one who thinks this. Thank you Merry and Bright! Just to mention it, papers generally do not stay in my husbands box indefinitely, most of what was in there would accumulate and be emptied over the course of the week. Usually it was invoices, receipts, and work orders that needed to be reviewed, signed, and delivered to other departments and/or clients. If any of these things had gone missing it was squarely on him, and another reason he would have prefered to handle the transportation of these items.
Not So NewReader* March 15, 2015 at 4:00 pm Yeah, I am having problems with this, too. Maybe it’s a regional thing or a company thing. But it’s definitely not cool around here. AT ALL. It’s totally find to ask people to move their things. It is totally rude to move their things, especially their paycheck with their SSN, to an undisclosed, unsecured area. I might remain calm in the moment, but I would seriously think about looking for a new job. I seem to be in the minority here. But these people just don’t give a hoot. They couldn’t even leave him a note in his mail box to say where to look or who to call? wow.
Not telling* March 15, 2015 at 8:22 pm If these documents are sensitive enough to cause upset, then surely they shouldn’t be left in an open cubby that others can access in the first place! Perhaps your husband could take this opportunity to think of a more secure way the documents could be delivered or exchanged, so that they are neither moved nor accessed by anyone who should not have access to them.
OP1* March 15, 2015 at 10:37 pm Tell that to the administration. He had requested they be mailed to him when he started working at this company, and they basically asked “What for? You have a mailbox on site.” Again though, I imagine it is because of these complaints that the company has decided that all employees will soon have to come to the office and sign for these documents. Unfortunately my husband does not have a say in how any of this has been handled, or he would still have a place to put the sensitive company documents that he is entrusted with. That is my big problem with all of this. He had/has absolutely no say at all how any of this is being handled.
Stephanie* March 14, 2015 at 2:50 pm #4 – I would wear business casual. You risk looking out of touch with the culture and ignoring specific instructions \ if you show up in a suit. I think, too, some companies really pride themselves on a casual dress code as a perk (especially if you’re in an industry or area that’s usually more formal). My last company was very casual in an area that’s dressier on average (DC) and they loved to tout the casual dress code. #5 – Does it matter? It’s not like dating where it’s bad to be someone’s backup. You may have also been nearly on par with the original chosen candidate, but she had something else that tipped her slightly in her favor.
OP4* March 14, 2015 at 3:48 pm Thanks Stephanie! This interview is also in the DC area, so I appreciate the feedback.
M-C* March 15, 2015 at 3:11 pm Excellent summary Stephanie! And OP, it’s perfectly OK to make sure you’re wearing your best business casual, that you feel really good in :-). But I’d definitely follow directions too, and not show up in a suit, especially in a skirt!
bopper* March 15, 2015 at 4:16 pm I had an office in location 1 and a secondary, unofficial, office in location 2. One time people in Location 2 were trying to find empty offices. They asked people near my office if anyone was using it. They said I was. But then I get a frantic email saying “They cleaned out your office!!” I had to quickly contact the powers that be and tell them that in fact I was using that office and could they please find all of my documentation! So sometimes it is just a mix up. P.S. I got 95% of my stuff back (most of it was in one garbagecan/dumpster).