Comments on: new director got drunk on his first day https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html Wed, 25 Nov 2020 16:28:26 +0000 hourly 1 By: Elfie https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3197378 Wed, 25 Nov 2020 16:28:26 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3197378 In reply to kt.

Oh my god, this describes something I’m experiencing right now! I’ve been hand-picked as the diversity champion for our IT department (my company really does want to improve it’s diversity statistics – my department, I’m not so sure), and whilst it’s something I’m passionate about (getting and keeping women in IT and making it a more welcoming place to be), I’m worried that it is going to take time away from my actual day job, and that I’m being set up to fail. My director has made a few comments that make me think he’s not all that supportive (racial and misogynistic-type comments), and I’ve been given literally zero support from within the department. I’ve also been given no deadlines or deliverables, but I have been asked for certain deliverables at the very last moment. So far I’ve been able to produce them (maybe not the best quality, but at least I got something out the door!), but I’m permanently afraid I’m going to be lambasted for not committing to this…

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By: Alison https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3197243 Wed, 25 Nov 2020 14:47:14 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3197243 In reply to wow.

Not everyone lives in the US. For all we know, they’re in Australia. Let’s focus on the actual red flags!

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By: JB https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3194813 Mon, 23 Nov 2020 14:47:09 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3194813 In reply to Please Leave.

‘Legally entitled’? The virus does not care about what’s legal (and most law enforcement entities in the US are not taking reasonable precautions regarding the virus). Two of my brother’s friends are currently hospitalized with COVID after going barhopping in Boston.

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By: Dancing Otter https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3194338 Sun, 22 Nov 2020 18:04:51 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3194338 In reply to Khatul Madame.

It doesn’t even have to be deliberate sabotage, just lack of due diligence.

Where a conscientious employee would double check an odd result, a demoralized and disengaged employee might shrug and pass it as close enough. Maybe it’s wrong, and needs to be corrected. Maybe it’s correct, but an indicator of a problem. Maybe it’s genuinely ok, but you don’t know.

Carelessness can cause serious harm.

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By: Jennifer Thneed https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3194106 Sun, 22 Nov 2020 03:25:48 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3194106 In reply to KnittyKnerd.

Two.

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By: TardyTardis https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3193347 Sat, 21 Nov 2020 05:11:06 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3193347 In reply to Artemesia.

So many bees here…

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By: Lalaroo https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3192937 Fri, 20 Nov 2020 19:38:51 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3192937 In reply to Please Leave.

This is just not true. Bars and restaurants are some of the largest contributers to the spread of coronavirus, in large part because they are places where you cannot stay masked at all time (because you’re eating and drinking), and also because as people get drunker they get less safe.

Here’s some info on this: https://www.forbes.com/sites/enriquedans/2020/11/15/theres-no-denying-the-evidence-restaurants-and-bars-are-helping-spreadcovid-19/?sh=19d6a4c33353

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/09/more-evidence-points-bars-adding-covid-19-spread#:~:text=The%20data%20show%20that%20foot,of%20a%20problem%20than%20bars.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/11/10/coronavirus-restaurants-gyms-hotels-risk/

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By: Ace in the Hole https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3192891 Fri, 20 Nov 2020 19:15:07 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3192891 In reply to Keymaster of Gozer.

I work at a garbage dump near a seafood processing plant and even we don’t smell this fishy.

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By: The_artist_formerly_known_as_Anon-2 https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3192853 Fri, 20 Nov 2020 19:02:03 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3192853 I’ve worked with my share of office drunks and office stoners, but fortunately, it wasn’t in a job where we were operating heavy machinery, driving trucks, etc.

But I did have a job interview once, where the boss took me out to lunch. I had one beer and a sandwich. The interviewer got so drunk, I had to drive him and his car back to the office. They didn’t offer me a job, but conversely, I had heavy thoughts about NOT going there… !!!!!

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By: Greg https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3192630 Fri, 20 Nov 2020 17:33:39 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3192630 In reply to wow.

I had a similar reaction. As often with AAM letters, we’re working off of incomplete information, so it’s always possible we’re missing context that would cause us to view the situation differently, but speaking for myself, if my colleagues wanted to go out for drinks right now, I would decline, and if I found out that they were getting drunk and acting indiscreetly I would be particularly upset about sharing an office with them, under the assumption that indiscreet drunk people are probably not taking reasonable precautions to avoid spreading the virus. I would also question the corporate culture that encouraged such activity.

Again, maybe there’s more to the story. And all of this is tangential to the OP’s concerns. But particularly in this time of rising caseloads and potential holiday super-spreader events, it’s incumbent on all of us to keep this stuff front of mind at all times

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By: cheeky https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3192613 Fri, 20 Nov 2020 17:29:39 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3192613 “Our company is around 80-90 people, and the VPs are owners and decision-makers with about a dozen of them and about 20 directors.”
So somewhere around a third of the workforce is management? That seems high for a small company.

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By: Please Leave https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3192271 Fri, 20 Nov 2020 16:10:09 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3192271 In reply to wow.

This is a dramatic interpretation of 3-4 people being in a public space that they are legally entitled to be in.

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By: Please Leave https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3192269 Fri, 20 Nov 2020 16:08:27 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3192269 In reply to Rach.

If a state has decided bars/restaurants can operate with certain safety precautions in place, why can’t people go there and you know, support local businesses staying open?

Living rooms parties of maskless people who think they are safe because they’re all friends and large gatherings are the super spreaders, not 3-4 people safely socializing.

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By: Shenanigans https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3192254 Fri, 20 Nov 2020 16:02:07 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3192254 In reply to Homebody.

I would really like an office field guide…

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By: wow https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3192252 Fri, 20 Nov 2020 15:59:46 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3192252 We’re just going to skip over the part where everyone in the story goes barhopping in a pandemic? Like that doesn’t tell us a whole bunch about this workplace culture and the judgment of everyone involved?

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By: Keymaster of Gozer https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3192015 Fri, 20 Nov 2020 13:43:40 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3192015 In reply to NotQuiteAnonForThis.

Agreed. I’ve done gaseous emissions that stink less than this situation.

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By: Media Monkey https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3191891 Fri, 20 Nov 2020 10:41:48 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3191891 In reply to Just Here for the Free Lunch.

totally agree. i’m in advertising in the UK and can absolutely imagine it.

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By: Fake Old Converse Shoes (not in the US) https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3191890 Fri, 20 Nov 2020 10:40:32 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3191890 In reply to NotQuiteAnonForThis.

One of the owners at Ex Job drunk THREE bottles of wine at the End Of Year dinner and DROVE HOME after. I was the only one horrified at the sight, the rest had a “get him drunk and ask for a raise” attitude towards the issue. I’m so glad I’m not there anymore.

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By: Malika https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3191882 Fri, 20 Nov 2020 09:56:39 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3191882 Many moons ago, a sparkling new director managed to get incredibly drink at happy hour at the end of his first week. He started to shout at everyone, disparage the wife of the CEO, comment negatively on the people sitting next to us and had to be driven home. He lasted two months before being let go as a bad ‘culture fit’ ( i think Leadership sincerely tried to get past it but couldn’t). Getting blindingly drunk in the first months of your tenure is a huge no-no in most workplaces, even ones that have a reputation as pretty relaxed. You are either expected to hold your liquor or to drink in moderation. It’s very likely he’s creating his own demise, and wont have to deal with him for much longer.

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By: Old Admin https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3191881 Fri, 20 Nov 2020 09:50:36 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3191881 In reply to Neir.

Or workers treated like cattle (see OP’s company)?
scnr

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By: staceyizme https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3191800 Fri, 20 Nov 2020 05:10:12 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3191800 I think you can file this director under “walking disaster who drowns innocents in his wake”. Distance yourself. Minimize contact. Verify anything he tells you or asks you to act on. And if you can move out of his orbit, do so.

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By: Rach https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3191791 Fri, 20 Nov 2020 04:54:41 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3191791 Why were you at a bar during this COVID mess? Why were any of you there?

This is why this country is seeing our numbers skyrocket. Stay home! Jeez.

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By: Neir https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3191783 Fri, 20 Nov 2020 04:19:18 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3191783 In reply to Lunch Eating Mid Manager.

Or to keep livestock from wandering off.

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By: Six Feet Under Par: A Chip Driver Mystery https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3191773 Fri, 20 Nov 2020 02:30:21 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3191773 In my experience dealing with shit people do while drunk at work, it’s never just one occasion. There may be more of these incidents to come

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By: Anon for this here post https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3191763 Fri, 20 Nov 2020 02:15:45 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3191763 In reply to RobotWithHumanHair.

I’m going through this in my current job. He just retired, but it was an open secret that the AD had a drinking problem. The guys in another department joked that even his desk “smelled better” now that he is gone.

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By: Not So NewReader https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3191760 Fri, 20 Nov 2020 02:02:46 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3191760 In reply to L Dub.

Thirty two people out of the 90 people are bosses, so a bit better than 1/3. And there is no prez, no central clearing point? What could possibly go wrong. I bet they don’t have an HR department, either.

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By: Not So NewReader https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3191757 Fri, 20 Nov 2020 01:47:03 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3191757 In reply to Miss Marple.

Fatal flaw in that plan. Once he burns through all HER stellar ideas then he will have to generate his own ideas. I’d love to be a fly on the wall to watch that play out.

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By: Miss Marple https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3191750 Fri, 20 Nov 2020 01:22:17 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3191750 In reply to Admiral Thrawn Is a Lovely Shade of Blue.

I also had that thought. It happened many years ago to my falt make.

She gets a new boss who is new to the industry and part of his brief was to mentor her as the executives believed she needed more experience to move into a Senior Manager role

She had always been a high performer and at 23 became a manager, which is young and almost unheard of for our industry.

12 months later when he has finished picking her brains about the Industry, while she is on holidays she is told that she has been fired. This was after 5 years of stellar reviews.

He did such a number on her, that people in the company that knew how good she was were convinced she was incompetent.

I hope I am wrong but better to be aware so you can protect yourself and be on guard.

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By: Jennifer Juniper https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3191714 Fri, 20 Nov 2020 00:14:14 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3191714 I’m so sorry, OP!

Dust off your resume in case you get fired for stuff the director makes up about you. And speak to an employment lawyer if that happens.

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By: Observer https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3191707 Thu, 19 Nov 2020 23:50:53 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3191707 In reply to EPLawyer.

In an industry where IP is an issue any reasonable boss HAS to worry about people doing damage in a poorly handled downsizing. If the boss is NOT thinking about that, they need to get educated.

Beyond that, this shows that he doesn’t know how to keep his mouth shut. What else is he going to blab about?

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By: Former Employee https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3191700 Thu, 19 Nov 2020 23:27:20 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3191700 This guy sounds like someone who needs to impress the younger/junior crowd. He may or may not know anything. The whole plagiarism issue sounds suspect because from what the OP said, it appears as if an employee would be in serious trouble over that type of infraction, yet she had never been called on it by the VP who allegedly mentioned it to the director in question. Who knows where he got the idea to say that or why, other than that he might have some sort of “white knight” complex and thinks that if the OP believes he has rescued her, she will be grateful and maybe end up doing a lot of his work for him.

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By: Attack Cat https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3191691 Thu, 19 Nov 2020 22:57:26 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3191691 In reply to Ann O’Nemity.

Also, it sounds like they went to a bar their first day back from remote work (that was seemingly only remote due to COVID-19). In what jurisdiction was it safe to do that in July? Maybe they were sitting outside in direct sunlight where it was a bit safer, but it doesn’t sound like they were socially distancing from non household members while their masks were off. (Sunlight helps break down particles suspended in air/on surfaces, it doesn’t reduce the risk from someone coughing in your face) I realize I have a tendency to view things through a US lense when no location is provided/implied, but that would have been similarly unsafe in many jurisdictions.

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By: RobotWithHumanHair https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3191682 Thu, 19 Nov 2020 22:43:36 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3191682 In reply to RobotWithHumanHair.

I should have typed “dentist appointment”, quotes intended.

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By: RobotWithHumanHair https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3191681 Thu, 19 Nov 2020 22:43:06 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3191681 This reminds me of my previous director who would be out in the morning for a dentist appointment and show up very clearly drunk around noon smelling strongly of alcohol.

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By: Myrin https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3191678 Thu, 19 Nov 2020 22:40:16 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3191678 In reply to jph in the midlands.

Aha, you’re totally right that’s a possiblity as well, I hadn’t even thought of that! I got caught up in the verb tenses and the thought that OP’s description would be chronological but of course that doesn’t actually have to be the case!

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By: Lunch Eating Mid Manager https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3191677 Thu, 19 Nov 2020 22:34:39 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3191677 In reply to I Love Llamas.

I am sure it was inadvertent! I am just trying to raise awareness.
And yes, super odd that this letter is eliciting multiple old-timey slurs!

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By: Paperwhite https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3191673 Thu, 19 Nov 2020 22:28:01 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3191673 In reply to kt.

An excellent description of a horrible and widespread practice. I’m so sorry he inflicted that on you.

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By: Something Something Whomp Whomp https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3191668 Thu, 19 Nov 2020 22:22:48 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3191668 In reply to Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain.

One owner/decision maker/VP per vertical is plausible and not always a red flag. There are certain areas of professional services where many firms are the result of recent-ish mergers between small industry-specific shops. Everyone comes together to benefit from shared services and a bigger client base but they all get to manage their own turf.

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By: Something Something Whomp Whomp https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3191660 Thu, 19 Nov 2020 22:16:03 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3191660 In reply to Just Here for the Free Lunch.

Totally. Beyond advertising, smaller consulting, PR, and market research firms are notorious for pretty much everything that the OP described. The titles and top-heavy org chart make sense, even for shops that don’t have partner-based ownership. The work hard/party hard culture does as well, even though most of those firms, depending on their clientele, make a big deal of hiring people capable of discretion which makes OP’s director that much worse. These are all professional services fields where plagiarism can be an issue.

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By: Happy https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3191659 Thu, 19 Nov 2020 22:15:30 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3191659 In reply to jph in the midlands.

I read it the same way you did.

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By: Artemesia https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3191656 Thu, 19 Nov 2020 22:11:36 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3191656 In reply to That Girl from Quinn’s House.

That is my fear. The VP may well have made the charge but not be willing to stand behind it and the Director let the cat out of the bag. I’d be pretty anxious in the OP’s place and would want to deal with this pretty directly. It sounds like drunk guy was spilling truths that the VPs aren’t ready to share.

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By: Elizabeth West https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3191655 Thu, 19 Nov 2020 22:09:40 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3191655 In reply to Empress Matilda.

Yes, it doesn’t hurt to start looking. You don’t have to do anything about it now, but you can get a head start on the process in case it’s necessary later.

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By: Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3191651 Thu, 19 Nov 2020 22:06:58 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3191651 In reply to RecoveringSWO.

Anonymouse made a good point in a post down thread about plagiarism not really a big thing in law though — “If you find a good argument in someone’s legal brief, you will save it and cut and paste it in one of your future legal briefs,” and I imagine that in financial services the numbers are the numbers. Usually you hear of plagiarism in creative fields and I just haven’t seen creative companies structured quite like this. There might be partners in an advertising company but they’re still usually structured in a triangle shape hierarchy with the lowest tier employees far outnumbering the management. The way this is set up, there is almost 1 director for every 2 lower-level employees (associates and trainees).

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By: Something Something Whomp Whomp https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3191650 Thu, 19 Nov 2020 22:05:53 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3191650 In reply to kt.

This is absolutely a thing that happens more often than people openly talk about, especially in workplace cultures that have some of the messed-up-ness that the OP described. It’s about everything you mentioned plus wanting the cover of having a minority who appears to cosign or thrive in an otherwise unwelcoming culture.

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By: Artemesia https://www.askamanager.org/2020/11/new-director-got-drunk-on-his-first-day.html#comment-3191648 Thu, 19 Nov 2020 22:04:59 +0000 https://www.askamanager.org/?p=20476#comment-3191648 In reply to DuskPunkZebra.

The plagiarism charge is giant big whopping deal — I would not take seriously the VPs dismissal of it without exploring it further. It is an oddly specific thing to charge without evidence — and so damaging professionally. I’d want to run that down. I’d probably ask the director about it specifically and also sit down with the VP to discuss your concerns about this being casually noised about. BIG deal.

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