{ 1,144 comments… read them below }

    1. Chyll*

      Sorry, got too excited about the photo and hit send early.

      I got a Lodge Dutch oven with a gift card and am looking forward to cooking with it. Does anyone have any tricks or easy recipes to try when using one?

      1. sswj*

        Well, depending on how big the pot is, no-knead bread is wicked easy and so, so good! (I know you were probably thinking stews and such, but bread is what I mostly use mine for.) I’ll add a link to the recipe I use in the next comment.

      3. Bluebell*

        No exact recipes, but one of the coolest things you can do with it is to make a batch of caramelized onions. I use mine for all sorts of stews and soups, and love how it puts a nice sear on mushrooms. Just be careful to only use wood or plastic utensils and not metal. Enjoy!

      4. CaptainMouse*

        I use mine (4 quart) for many things you start on top of the stove and then put in the oven. In particular, any casserole-type dishes with a white sauce. For example, mac&cheese and tuna casserole. Yes I get less top crust than if I poured everything into a 9×13 baking dish. But, fewer things to wash and easier to store leftovers in the fridge.

      5. Chyll*

        Thanks for the suggestions all! Can’t wait to try them. Looking forward to trying making bread, too. I have to do gluten free (celiac) but I can make it work.

        1. Lena Clare*

          I don’t know, but I just searched it with Google lens and got other pictures of aristoCATS. Very recommended.

    2. Blarg*

      Also check out Crafted Art Emporium. They do customized prayer candles … with your pets. I received one as a gift and am so in love with it. Will try to put the link in my name but not sure if that works.

  3. Lena Clare*

    I couldn’t tell if the tree in Alison’s house that was posted yesterday was real or fake! I think may be fake…
    Do you have a fake tree or real tree?

    I used to prefer a fake tree because it doesn’t moult so much as a real one, and I think of the environmental impact of cutting a real one down but now I think there are schemes to replant, and if you keep it well watered it’s less likely to shed, so maybe a real one would be nicer.
    What are your thoughts?

    1. Telgar*

      You can in good conscience buy a real tree next year – the environmental impact of fake trees is several times higher than that of real trees.

      The problem with fake trees is that they are made largely out of plastic, which uses up mineral oil (new CO2 released into the atmosphere), is rarely recycled (too many different types of plastic make recycling difficult) and is indecomposable (it only gets ground down and microplastic is a huge environmental problem).

      Real trees can be reused (schredded for use in gardens and parks), burned, or decomposed (the last two can be used to produce energy); all of which is several times better than using plastic. It’s best to buy locally grown trees to reduce transport.

      Also, don’t worry about depriving the earth of a tree that is cut down. Christmas trees are not cut out of living forests, they are grown on plantations. If less trees are sold, less will be grown. And it’s better to grow a tree for just a few years then cut it down, than not grow it at all. (Although tree-plantations do have their own problems, it’s still much less problematic than plastic.)

      I don’t have a Christmas tree now, but when I was a child we always had a real tree and I loved it. For me the smell of conifers is part of the Christmas experience. But admittedly a real tree is more work than a fake one.

      1. Chocolate Teapot*

        A German consumer programme I watch came to the same conclusion. It takes about 10 years for an artificial tree to become carbon neutral. Another alternative is renting a real tree for the festive period.

        1. Green great dragon*

          BBC also came to the conclusion that you have to reuse a fake tree about 10 times. So this year is break-even year for me, and my fake tree’s still going strong.

          1. Green great dragon*

            And link: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38129835

            Though of course this is only an average. My parents have a real tree every year: they get whichever not-quite-perfect tree the neighbour wants rid of from his plantation, and then they burn it to heat their house. I guess the chainsaw to chop it down and chop it up uses a bit of electricity?

          2. Liz*

            That’s good to know! My first tree is currently on it’s 13th Christmas having spent many years in my home, and now donated to my workplace. I got a new one last year because we wanted a white one instead, but will undoubtedly use it until it falls to bits.

            This is nothing on my parents, though, who had a total of 2 trees in 47 years, with the second still going strong.

            Maybe it’s a generational/regional thing, but real trees just weren’t a thing for me growing up. A Christmas tree was made of plastic and got shoved in the loft every January. I was an adult before I met anyone who had a real tree (they lived in a more rural area) and when I watched them battling to wedge the trunk into some sort of clamp and stand it up straight, I decided I much prefer one that comes in a box with instructions!

          3. Nita*

            Yes, we used to have an artificial tree that was used for 15 years or so. Would use it still, but my parents sold it when moving. Wouldn’t be surprised if someone still has it!

          1. Washi*

            I think you rent it in a pot so it can be replanted?

            But that’s confusing too because you can’t plant and pot the same tree multiple years (I assume) so either way you are getting a new tree each year. Maybe it’s just confusing because in my area of the US there’s not a vast area of deforestation that needs replanting, so I don’t know what you would do with all of the “saved” trees. It’s not each little pine tree you save helps replant the Amazon or something.

        3. Autumn*

          What a great idea! I will definitely be researching tree rental for next year. I learn the best things on AAM!

      2. Kate*

        Are there really people out there who use a fake tree once and throw it away?

        My parents are on their second fake tree of my lifetime, and I am 36. There first one last 28 years! This one should still have plenty of “life” in it.

        1. Grits McGee*

          Probably not once, but maybe it only has a lifetime of 3-5 years, which falls under the 10 year threshold mentioned above. I had a cheap, pre-lit 3 ft tree that lasted about 5 years before the lights stopped working. My mom ended up burning off the plastic and lights so that she could use the frame for an art project, so I don’t know if that’s better or worse than putting it in a landfill….

          1. RagingADHD*

            We just put new lights on ours. The tree was fine.

            I mean, light strings are a whole different story for impact, and people use them on real trees too.

          2. RebelwithMouseyHair*

            burning the plastic releases all sorts of poisonous gases so it was definitely much worse

        2. Emily*

          Same for me! For over 20 years, my parents had the same fake tree, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they keep the second one for a similar amount of time.

      3. Traffic_Spiral*

        Fun fact: in the PNW people use old Christmas trees to rebuild salmon spawning habitats. Putting them into small rivers and streams helps stop erosion and rebuild the areas that the fish need.

      4. Nines*

        We love our fake tree and for our family it was much more cost effective. We got ours five years ago and no signs of getting rid of it. Those years money was very tight. The year before we didn’t have a tree because we couldn’t afford the $80 for a real one. So I shopped and couponed and found a good Black Friday deal the next year. It was more expensive than real, but only by a bit, and I felt much better knowing we secured a tree and wouldn’t have to deal with wondering if we could afford one again. I was a bit put off by fake trees prior to that but now greatly appreciate ours.
        My parents also got a fake tree once they got to the age that it was getting hard to navigate carrying the tree in and out of the house, getting it out of the car, etc. So there are definitely reasons for the fake trees. ☺️

    2. Kali*

      I like fake trees. We’ve always had them. I don’t really get what’s “nicer” or preferable about a real tree, they just seem like a lot of hassle and…well, a lot of hassle.

      1. pancakes*

        Real trees smell nice and don’t look plastic or fake. All of these are qualities I like. I’m baffled by the idea that real trees are a hassle – I have never encountered this view before seeing it here just now! Having to store a fake tree would take up a lot of room in my apartment, too.

        1. Janet Pinkerton*

          We’re about to buy a fake tree for the first time. It’s just that there’s no joy for us in going and picking out a real tree and then transporting it home and getting my car all dirty/pine needley, then walking it 200 feet from the car to the door, then dragging it upstairs to the condo, then setting it up in the tree stand, watering it, putting the lights on it, making sure it stays watered, making sure the cats don’t drink te water.

          Whereas everyone I know with a fake tree just has to pull it out and set it up. It seems easy-peasy in comparison. Plus I’d rather spend $300 once than like $80 every year.

          1. Liz*

            $300?? I think the more expensive fake tree I bought was £25!! What does $300 get you? Does it light up on its own?

            1. Liz*

              Sorry it just occurred to me that this might come across as judgey. Absolutely no bad feeling towards anyone with a £300 tree, I was just thrown because I don’t think over ever seen one for 3 figures. I’ve done some internet searching and I did find one for £279 that looks like a realistic replica of an actual spruce. So I guess that kind of thing? Are those more of a norm in the States?

            2. ThatGirl*

              Yes, the $300 trees are usually more natural looking, bigger, better quality and/or pre-lit. We have a 7 ft fake tree with LEDs that you can set to white or color lights. It wasn’t that much, about $100, but it should last much longer and the bulbs won’t burn out.

            3. MissDisplaced*

              Some fake trees can go for $300 or more, but they’re usually quite large ones. Generally those are better made, so think of those as an investment that should easily last 10 years if taken care of and stored properly.

          2. Elizabeth West*

            You don’t even have to spend that much if you buy the tree AFTER Christmas. My last tree was $99 on sale. I used it for five or six years and it was in great shape, so I donated it before I moved because I didn’t know what kind of space I would eventually have and didn’t want to store it.

            1. anon2*

              You are coming across as rather snotty about other people’s choices! I’m sure if you or a family member had allergies to real trees, you’d find a way to find joy in a nice quality fake.

            2. ThatGirl*

              Dude, the judginess isn’t a good look. Many people have explained their reasons and fake trees bring me plenty of joy, even if they don’t do the same for you.

              1. pancakes*

                I don’t think it’s a much better look for so many people to pile on me for expressing a preference for real trees in a thread soliciting opinions on the matter. I don’t see why my personal stylistic preference should be weigh so heavily on anyone – other people’s preferences don’t weigh heavily on me.

                1. fhqwhgads*

                  The issue is you weren’t just “expressing a preference”. You started by stating your preference. Then you went and made half a dozen other posts crapping on other people’s preferences. That’s the difference. I don’t even celebrate this holiday, and have never and will never have an Xmas tree and even I was cringing at how you spoke to people on this topic.

            3. AnonEMoose*

              People who love real trees love them, and I get that. But to me, I’m not big on the idea of having to remember to water it, cleaning up needles, trying to keep the cats out of the water (which I understand can be toxic to them), and the potential fire hazard if it dries out. So, fake tree it is.

            4. MJ (Aotearoa/New Zealand)*

              I mean, for me there is no joy in having a severe allergic reaction so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

        2. Kali*

          My mum used to just stick the tree in the back of a cupboard, with the Christmas decorations, and my MiL keeps hers in the attic. I guess they do take up space, but some things have to, and a Christmas tree was just one we always made room for. Though, that said, we’ve just made a wall-tree out of lights the last few years, when space has really been an issue.

          Tbh, it’s what I grew up with, and, I guess, just what I expect a tree to look like. With the smell, I also don’t really care about the smell of old books, so maybe I’m just an outlier there.

          1. Liz*

            I’m exactly the same on all counts. My tree broke down conveniently into a box every year and I kept it under the bed!

            But I guess it’s what we grew up with? I don’t expect a Christmas tree to look like an actual tree either, so my cheap, green tinsel replica did me very well for 11 years. £25 well spent! I had never even seen a “realistic” fake tree until I looked one up today but I guess it makes sense that there’s a market for them if people grew up with real ones and are used to that look.

            Many people have commented on the smell, and maybe I have selective nose blindness but all the times I’ve found myself sat next to a real tree, I have never noticed a smell. Yesterday I literally pressed my nose into the needles of a spruce and… nothing! I feel I must be missing out!

            1. The Other Dawn*

              We’ve been getting real trees for last 20 years or so and I find I can only smell the scent for a day or two. Either I get used to it or it just doesn’t give off a scent anymore. I have no idea which it is.

              1. allathian*

                The scent comes from the needles drying out and the tree dying. When it’s dry, it won’t smell anymore. Also, some varieties smell more strongly than others, and from personal experience I can say that the stronger the scent, the more the tree will shed.

                I’ll say this, though, we’ve had our Siberian fir up for a week now, and it hasn’t shed at all. I’ve literally seen artificial trees that shed more than this one!

                1. The Other Dawn*

                  I’ve had great luck with my trees now that we cut them down vs. going to a tree lot for pre-cut. We cut ours down and put them up on December 6 this year and they’re only now starting to drop a few needles.

            2. desdemona*

              The huge trick re: smell for fake trees that a friend of mine uses is putting a pine-scented car freshener deep in the fake tree along the “trunk” part.
              I think when the tree goes into storage, the air freshener goes into her car?
              Maybe not eco-friendly, but the point is that there’s a way around the smell if people really really want it.

              2. Artemesia*

                you can buy evergreen scent and also little sticks you can stick in a tree that give it a pine scent. Also candles this time of year.

              3. allathian*

                I can’t tolerate artificial scents at all. Car air fresheners in particular are pretty much guaranteed to give me a headache. I’d rather have a scent-free tree…

                There are some natural scents that I can’t tolerate, either. Christmas trees don’t affect me, but strong-smelling flowers, like lilacs, hyacinths (popular at Christmas here) and lilies-of-the-valley make me feel ill. The scent is lovely outdoors, though.

        3. Curly sue*

          My father is badly allergic to pine, so when he started doing Christmas again (long story can be boiled down to “converting religions for marriage is a really bad idea”) and tried doing a real tree, he was in absolute misery. It was fake trees only after that.

          1. Damn it, Hardison!*

            I’m also sadly allergic to pine, so artificial tree it is. I got a new one 2 years ago; the previous one was a $50 tree from Target that lasted 15 years.

          2. Seeking Second Childhood*

            For me it’s the inevitable mildew/mold from having a cut plant in water. (Plus I like to keep the tree up a long time.)

        4. EventPlannerGal*

          Mine folds down pretty small even though it’s a 6-footer so storage isn’t that big a problem! I would like a real one but I’d need to get it delivered to my flat, up four or five flights of very narrow stairs, and I KNOW I’d be picking needles out of the carpet for months. I think they both have their pros and cons.

          1. pancakes*

            We live on the 4th floor and carry it up ourselves. I wonder about the quality of vacuum cleaner some of you seem to be stuck with!

            1. EventPlannerGal*

              Uh, okay? I don’t want to do that. So I have a fake tree. This isn’t very complicated. And no, I don’t have an especially great vacuum cleaner because I prefer to spend my money elsewhere as I don’t really care that much about the quality of my vacuum cleaner.

              As I said, there are pros and cons to both real and fake trees but you are being very judgemental throughout this thread about people’s preference for fake trees. I find that strange. Could you explain why you’re responding like this?

              1. pancakes*

                This is a thread soliciting opinions on the subject. I don’t see why it should be quite so bruising for people to encounter opinions on an almost entirely irrelevant stylistic choice that aren’t aligned with their own. We don’t all have to like the same things! Yet several people here seem to think their stylistic preferences require excuses. “I prefer the look and convenience of a fake tree” is easy to understand; “my vacuum cleaner doesn’t work on pine needles” much less so.

                1. Ask a Manager* Post author

                  I tried to say this nicely earlier but I’m going to say it more bluntly now: Whether you intend it or not, you’re coming across rudely in this thread. Please drop the topic and move on from this thread. Thank you.

        5. ThatGirl*

          But they require water and care, need to be disposed of each year, and the needles can make a mess. I’m firmly in the do what works for you camp, but there are upsides and downsides to both.

        6. fiverx313*

          real trees don’t come in screaming hot pink, though :D

          plus my cat is allergic to nearly everything and i’m not looking to find out if that includes pine needles, lol

          2. allathian*

            I prefer a real tree. Plenty of people prefer fake trees, and that’s a personal choice that shouldn’t affect anyone else. That said, I don’t see the point of fake trees in any other color than green, but that’s just me. Of course, if you put so many decorations on it that you can barely see the tree underneath, it’s less of an issue. But I don’t like the look of “overloaded” trees, either. I also can’t stand “gilded lilies”, flowers that have been dyed either by placing cut flowers in dye or by painting and putting glitter etc. on them. I guess I just like my plants to look natural even if they aren’t. YMMV, as usual. I hope I’m not coming across as judgmental here, I’m just stating my own preferences.

            Good quality artificial trees can look very convincing, my sister has one that you couldn’t tell was fake unless you touched it. It’s just a bit asymmetric to make the illusion even more convincing, there’s some variation in the number and length of branches, etc.

        7. Disco Janet*

          As someone who grew up having real Christmas trees, I’m kinda baffled too – but by the fact that you can’t imagine someone seeing real trees as a hassle. You don’t see it as a hassle to attach a tree to your car, drag it in the house, get it setup in the stand so it isn’t going to fall over (this process generally involves weights for my parents real tree!), watering it daily, vacuuming the needles – and inevitably still occasionally stepping on one and having it trying to lodge into your foot like a splinter?

          Like I can get thinking it’s worth the hassle, but not understanding why it’s considered a hassle?

          1. pancakes*

            We are NYC people who have to drag a great many things up & down four flights of stairs. Getting the tree set up doesn’t seem like much of a hassle to me, no. My parents did it every year growing up, and it was easier for them to get a tree into their semi-suburban living room through the front door than it is for my boyfriend and I to get it up the stairs. It’s certainly not so much of a hassle that I’m going to warm up to the department store-look of fake trees anytime soon. I’d rather go without!

            1. Disco Janet*

              And that’s fine for you – the tone here just reads as super judgmental to me – like the audacity of someone liking the look of a fake tree or seeing them as more convenient. I guess I just don’t understand having such strong feelings about the look of a fake tree. (But I’ve seen fake trees that I didn’t realize were fake until I was told, so clearly I don’t notice or care as much.)

                1. fhqwhgads*

                  I suspect you may be coming across significantly more condescending on this topic than was your intention.

                2. Kay*

                  I’m flabbergasted you feel comfortable bringing dying trees into your home year after year. Doesn’t it trouble you to know you are contributing to the Xmas tree farming industry? Real trees are raised to be murdered! :(

                3. Ask a Manager* Post author

                  I’m seconding the people saying you’re coming across differently here than you may intend.

                  I think a certain brand of handbag is tacky, but I’m not going into groups of people who say they like them and repeatedly explaining how tacky I find them and how confused I am that anyone would want one.

                  (The tree in my house is fake, because my husband has terrible allergies.)

          2. Old and Don’t Care*

            This is how it went in my house growing up and is clearing up any nostalgia I had for a real tree. My fake tree has never toppled over…

          3. Traffic_Spiral*

            I think it’s a new online affectation. People say “I’m baffled by” or “I just can’t comprehend why” when they mean “I don’t agree with/like X.” It’s a new passive aggressive way to go “I’m so right that I can’t iMAgine why anyone would think differently.”

            1. pancakes*

              You are ironically being a bit aggressive about rewording my views, and you are not capturing them accurately. Of course people think differently about this, but apparently people see differently, and the latter is what baffles me. To my eye there are numerous visual differences between fake and real trees.

              1. Disco Janet*

                You’re also rewording your views though. You didn’t initially say you were baffled some people couldn’t tell the difference. You said you were baffled anyone could view them as a hassle. (While describing dragging it up four flights of stairs.)

                They were giving you the benefit of a doubt, not being aggressive. You’re being aggressive.

      2. WellRed*

        Well, the smell of a real tree for starters. Lack of storage for the fake. But either way, I like having the tree, real or fake.

    3. WS*

      I’m allergic to pine trees, so it’s a fake tree for me and my workplace! It does save having to vacuum up all the pine needles, though, and we use the same tree every year.

      1. KimmyBear*

        This. My parents had a fake tree for many years and then switched to real until the realized my sister was downing Claritin to survive the holidays. Now it’s back to the fake tree but they’ve had the same one for at least 15 years.

        1. WS*

          I would get a “cold” in early December leading to mysterious sinus infections and migraines in the weeks before Christmas, and it turned out to be the tree!

        2. GrumpyGnome*

          I’m sorry for your sister! I think that was the issue my dad had with real trees and my mom got tired of cleaning up the shed needles. We switched from real to fake when I was about 6 or 7 and my mom set up the same fake tree for 25 years til she passed away. My dad and I don’t really decorate our respective houses for Christmas anymore (my mom loved the decorating and we would help her and since she’s gone it’s not as much fun) but we still have all the ornaments saved just in case we decide to.

    4. Quoth the Raven*

      I prefer fake trees. I’ve only had a real tree once, and it was too much a hassle. Furthermore, buying or renting a real one every year is too expensive where I live (I am in Mexico City; we have few massive green areas and those we have don’t really lend themselves to growing trees to the scale that would be needed).

      I do keep my fake trees for a long time. I’m 33, and we’ve only really bought two fake trees in my life; one was precisely because we’d given our old tree away to someone else because we moved to an apartment where we didn’t have the room for it, so we got the real one one year and then went without one for a couple of years.. I don’t see any point in getting a new one often.

      1. Moosemonster*

        Same. My husband had a brief obsession with buying real trees, and for our kid’s first Christmas he went all out and bought a massive tree that barely fit in the house. I’m still finding needles two years later. After that particular mess, he caved and we got a small, fake tree, which I know hurts his soul with its pitiful stature but saves us about 15h hours in clean up work.

        1. Hi there*

          I go the opposite way. I buy a real tree that I can fit into my Subaru crosstrek with the seats down. This means the tree is barley taller than I am but makes the maneuvering really easy.

    5. allathian*

      We prefer real trees. Ours is usually a Siberian fir, if we can get one, because they shed far less than any other variety we’ve tried. Their scent is also less “coniferous” than other varieties. I do miss the scent sometimes, but I love how little hassle they are.

    6. Gingerblue*

      Real trees all the way for me. They’re better for the environment, keep farmers in business, and they’re lovely and smell good and are just… realer.

      1. Kay*

        I read an article that they are worse for the environment? Just saw the headline so I have no idea what that’s about.

      2. Not So NewReader*

        Maybe someone will know something about this. I remember the calculus teacher saying there is a mathematical formula that can estimate the number of tree limbs for a given size tree. So while not always symmetrical, are still some semi-predictable patterns.

        1. Kali*

          I know there are strict patterns in the development of leaves and petals for smaller flowers, so I wouldn’t be surprised if something similar applied to trees.

          We only covered this briefly – I did genetics – and I’ve not used it since so don’t remember it well, but it was interesting to study. Firstly, the plant professor was such an adorable oddball. Secondly, it was the only dissection we ever had to do (in the looking-at-it-under-a-microscope way rather than breaking the cell walls to get the DNA out way), taking flowers apart and looking at the petals. We did that because, if a flower has more than, iirc, 5 petals, it’s not a flower. It’s several flowers, of two different types, one that makes the petally bit and one that makes the central bit. It’s some specific mutations in the crysanthemum family, which includes daisies and sunflowers. It also includes dandelions, but they have another mutation that makes ALL their little flowers the petally bits with no inside bits. The thing I remember most fondly is the mathematics behind how plants decide where new leaves and things go, because that was one of Alan Turing’s contributions to biology, figuring that out. I studied at one of the uni’s associated with Turing, so we always had a moment when we came across his work. I imagine those on maths courses, working in the Turing building, had multiple moments.

        1. pancakes*

          It’s gotten a bit lost in the threading. My point was just that this is a reliable way to discern whether a tree is real or fake.

    8. The Other Dawn*

      My parents always had a huge fake tree. When I lived at home I think we had a real tree for maybe the last two years we were in that house. When my parents moved out of state to NH they went out and chopped down a real tree every year. I was living with my then-boyfriend, now my husband, and we had a small fake tree. He’d never had a real tree in his whole life. Once we bought a house, though, it’s been a real tree ever since. We stopped buying pre-cut, though, because the quality is fairly hit-or-miss and pretty expensive around here (CT). (One year the needle droppage was so bad we had to take it down and get another one. My sister thought I was crazy for doing that, but I didn’t want to spend the holidays looking at this really sad, mostly bare tree.) About three years ago we started chopping down our own at a local nursery and they only charge 30.00 for any size, as compared to 55.00+ in a tree lot. We typically get two trees since our house is 285 years old–we do a “modern” tree in the family room and then an old-fashioned one in the living room (C9 bulbs, old glass ornaments we find at antique stores for a couple dollars, etc.)

      I don’t find there’s any more “hassle” with a real tree than a fake tree. I feel it’s equal. I hate having to put a fake tree together, though I’m sure that’s changed in the last 20 years since I last bought one. And trying to get it back into the box and lug it up to the attic is annoying. With a real tree, there’s the needle droppage, though chopping your own down limits that–it stays fresh for much longer–and you have to water it. Then when you’re done you either lug it out to the curb for pickup or recycling it somehow.

      1. Not playing your game anymore*

        Yeah. That’s changed a lot. When I was small it was my job to assemble the tree. Lots of sorting of branches by length and then a fairly tedious amount of finding the proper hole for each branch… but my folks used that tree for the entire 30 years they were married (and they bought it used) It packed down (almost as tediously into a small box that could be stored under the bed) Mom didn’t put up a tree after I moved out but just decorated a chair or a card table to put gifts and cards on.

        We had a real tree for several years once I had my own place, but it wasn’t what I was used to and I turned out to have pine allergies… so we bought an artificial tree. When we moved about fifteen years later, my tree didn’t fit so we got a shorter tree for the bay window, on sale after Christmas for $15 (and yes, it does light up) It fits in a closet, but does take up a lot more room than my childhood tree, but you pull it out of it’s bag, fluff up it’s branches a bit and it’s good to go we put a few favorite ornaments on it… No fuss no muss. The real tree’s were much more hassle, and I felt bad about killing them (I also hate cut flowers, so there is that)

        1. RagingADHD*

          Oh, I used to love sorting the branches! They were color-coded on the ends, which got real challenging after the paint was mostly chipped off.

          Ours now comes in 4 sections that each fold like an umbrella.

          1. The Other Dawn*

            Yes, that’s why we eventually went with a real tree: the paint wore off the fake branches so eventually we had to guess where they go. Plus, we really like the look of a real tree.

      2. allathian*

        When you get a pre-cut tree, you need to saw off about 3 or 4 inches from the bottom of the tree. Otherwise it won’t be able to suck up any water and it’ll dry out much faster.

        1. The Other Dawn*

          We’ve done that with all our real trees, but even then the ones pre-cut from a tree lot don’t hold up as well as the ones we cut down.

    9. Not So NewReader*

      I definitely think that real trees are nicer. They each have their own “personality” meaning their own little shape and branch configuration. They smell good and that smell feels festive to me.

      I use a fake tree. The reason is that years ago suddenly it became a Thing to charge 50 bucks for a very modest, small tree. Other trees were more bucks. At that point we had an apartment with high ceilings. Making lemonade here, I bought a big, fake tree to match the higher ceilings and we used that for years. I picked it up during the after Christmas sales.

      As we got older it seemed to make sense to have a smaller tree. I now have something shorter than me and I don’t always put it up every year. I seriously think about getting rid of this tree. I still have a couple tiny trees to decorate and I have fake greens that I can use to decorate.

    10. Seeking Second Childhood*

      One way to feel better about the decision is to buy an artificial tree second-hand — tag sales, Freecycle, Buy Nothing, charity shops, etc.
      I’ve been looking at feather trees lately… I just worry about long-term storage, because over the years I’ve had run-in with critters & insects that eat natural fibers. So is it any better if I have to start storing my tree in moth balls!?

    11. MissM*

      Aluminum tree here. It’s sparkly, easy to put up/down, probably 60+ years old, and only moults a tiny scrap of metal each year.

      1. The Other Dawn*

        I had one of those in my bedroom when I was a teenager. I don’t know if it was old or not, though. My husband and I were in an antiques store a couple weeks ago and they had one of these trees…$480! Makes me wish I saved that old silver tree, as I’m curious as to whether it would be worth anything now.

      2. Elizabeth West*

        We had one of those when I was very small. I remember it being in the attic of the house we lived in when I was five.

      3. Miss Pantalones En Fuego*

        I have one like that. It was my grandparents’ and is at least 70 years old. Still looks fine but it is a bit large for my house so I don’t always put it up.

    13. Pocket Mouse*

      Three, sometimes four, households in my family have no tree. Of these, two have brought in large, smooth branches from the yard and hung lights and ornaments on the branch. One places tree-shaped decorations (such as the foot-high light-up ceramic type) or a potted plant with small ornaments on it near or above the present pile. One does nothing for a tree per se, but gets fresh pine decorative items (wreaths, sprigs, crafts) for the cheer and scent.

    14. Scout Finch*

      Growing up, my friend’s parents had a real tree every year. But it was live, with the root ball in some sort of wash tub. When Christmas was over, they planted the tree along the fence line at the south side of their yard.

      It was nice seeing the trees lined up, the tallest one from when my friend was a baby. They had about 15 trees planted before I moved from the neighborhood.

      It was like looking at the height marks on a door jamb that parents mark as their children grow.

      2. allathian*

        This is really cool! Of course, it requires a lot that’s big enough for a fence like this, so I’m guessing a more rural area.

      3. Janne*

        That’s such a cool idea!

        My parents, living on a not so big lot, had a really really small and cheap tree their first Christmas together in that house, replanted it in the front yard, and every year dug it out. When I was 11 years old, the tree didn’t fit under the ceiling anymore, and that coincided with when we had to move houses so we started anew with a small tree. The last couple of years it was really nice that I had gotten bigger, because my dad couldn’t carry the tree inside on his own anymore. We needed a very big pot too, because the roots grew with it of course. After 12 or so years, the tree doesn’t have a really nice shape anymore, but that adds to its character ;)

        The only problem was that we had one winter where the ground was frozen and we couldn’t dig out the tree. But most of the time it only gets really cold in January here, so if we are early enough in December we’re fine.

    15. MissDisplaced*

      Real trees smell nice (unless you’re allergic to pine) and can be mulched. However, I need a smaller tree and found many tree lots just do not have smaller live trees!
      You can get a decent fake tree in the $100-$150 range, which ought to last 8-10 years if stored properly. The metal (aluminum I think) should be recyclable, and I think there is some effort now to make artificial trees out of recycled plastic if you look for a higher recycled material content and are willing to may more.

      Kind of a toss up. I guess it depends on your lifestyle. I find the artificial tree simpler and easier, but no, not as nice or “warm” looking. Simple usually wins out as I get too busy in December tho.

      1. Natalie*

        Yes, I’ve noticed this year is the first year I see a lot of mini or table-top real trees – I assume pandemic holiday plans means there’s enough of a market for them. I’ve wanted one in the past (small house, one year our puppy took up the tree corner) and had to settle for a potted bush that had been grown in a vaguely pine shape.

        1. Janne*

          I found that the really small trees are sold in different places around here. The big trees are sold in places like the parking spot of a home depot or a garden center, and the small trees are sold at florists and supermarkets and some department stores. That will vary by place though — I live in the Netherlands.

    16. Wisco Disco*

      Real trees here. We live in a rural area so we cut it from the tree farm down the road, and when we take it down it gets eaten by the neighbors’ goats.

    17. Figgie*

      We’ve only had two fake trees in 45 years and the current one is still going strong at 20 plus years of age. Not that we have a tree this year, as we are wintering in Mexico.

      Because I didn’t want the cats to destroy the ornaments that our kids had made when they were small, many years ago, my spouse put a nail up by the ceiling, centered on the wall. He then put two nails on either side between a wall and a door down by the bottom. He took a silver garland, using the nails as the anchor and put together a triangular Christmas tree on the wall, looping the garland back and forth between the sides of the triangle to build a fairly good size tree on the wall, up high enough that the cats can’t reach the ornaments.

      Regular ornament holders or silver paper clips hold the ornaments in place and it all stores into a small shoe box when we take it down. No lights, but my spouse says he can run small LED’s around the garland if I really want him to. We call it the “Kid’s Christmas Tree” and to be honest, I love it has much as I love our regular tree. :-)

    18. Jackalope*

      I’m real trees all the way (although for the last several years it’s been no tree instead). I like the smell, I like the way they look (different each year!), and an artificial tree registers to my senses as “tree-shaped piece of plastic” rather than “tree”. This is not a scientific study but I know in my area we have a number of tree farms. If everyone went to plastic then they wouldn’t be able to keep growing trees and the land would probably be paved over and put to other use. So even with cutting them down I feel that at least in my area natural trees are an environmental win.

    19. Mella*

      I will never have another real tree after multiple spider/cricket/mantis incidents. Waking up to my cats projectile vomiting dozens of baby spiders does not a merry Christmas make.

      We use my grandmother’s fake tree from the 60s in years we have cats who behave. If we have kittens or rambunctious cats that year (we foster) we have a special homemade cat-proof fake tree that my inventor husband came up with.

    20. Clisby*

      We always get a real tree. They typically come from tree farms that are constantly replanting, in rotation, so you’re not likely to be participating in deforestation with a real tree. It’s not much different from buying vegetables from a farmers market. They also have a post-Christmas use, at least in SC. Here, discarded trees are used to create fish havens in the lakes. Now, of course, the real reason for creating fish havens is so people can catch fish and eat them, so if you’re opposed to that, it’s a con instead of a pro.

      1. pancakes*

        Where I live the discarded trees are mulched and used in gardening our city parks. It’s called Mulchfest. We live half a short block away from our nearest park and I always enjoy the smell when this is happening.

    21. RagingADHD*

      I have contact allergies to real trees, so I couldn’t decorate one without coming out in a horrible burning, weeping rash.

      I’ve always had an artificial tree. My parents had the same one for 40+ years, then I had a mini apartment-sized one that we still have & sometimes put in the kids’ room. Our current house tree is about 9 years old and going strong.

      So if the 10-year rule is accurate, we’ve nearly evened out on the youngest one. And my folks I guess were better off than using 40 live trees.

      1. Gingerblue*

        I had no idea people even could have contact allergies to pines until this thread. That sounds miserable! We’re such poorly-optimized mammals at times.

        1. RagingADHD*

          Interestingly, I am also in the minority of people who are NOT allergic to poison ivy. (Currently. It can change, so I don’t press my luck.)

          Bodies are wierd.

    22. Lena Clare*

      I think I’m erring on the side of keeping my fake trees till they fall (hopefully many more years to come!) then get a real one. I’d like a real one next year, but it seems kind of wasteful if my fake ones are fine.
      I’ve posted a link to my Twitter with pictures of the trees I’ve got up (including a book tree!) which is in moderation, but you can see them if you’re interested when it goes through.

    23. Elizabeth West*

      We had a fake tree when I was a kid, and one year, we kids all banded together and begged our parents to get a real one. They did. After a week of stepping on needles, we decided we preferred the plastic tree.

      I’ve had an artificial one since. If I want pine scent in my house, I can get a living wreath or a candle.

    24. Artemesia*

      When I was a child in the 50s I remember a public service film on TV about fire dangers with Christmas tree. They lit one and it flashed up in about two seconds. Since we liked to have our tree near the fireplace in the house we raised our kids in, we went with a nice artificial tree — one where you assemble it branch by branch. Now we do that every year with our granddaughter. ‘Building the tree’ is a Christmas tradition.

      1. allathian*

        When I was a kid in the 70s and early 80s, we had live trees. With real candles! Of course, those weren’t lit most of the time, just an hour or so in the early evening. Safety standards have improved since then, most city ordinances probably ban live candles in trees. I certainly haven’t seen any for a very long time.

        On Christmas Day, I watched the Christmas episode of Downton Abbey set in 1924 and I was amazed that they had electric “fairy lights” in the tree. Of course, they were wealthy, but I must have been at least 10 years old before I saw my first electric tree lights, and I thought they looked horrible… (I was a conservative child, given the choice, I’d rather wear clothes that had become too small for me as I grew than brand new ones.)

        1. Not playing your game anymore*

          Where on earth were you raised? I was born in 1960 and we (and everyone I knew) always had electric tree lights. Big bulbs that got hot enough to melt our plastic tree, and when one bulb went out the whole tree went dark… but still! After seeing them on some TV show, I begged for them and was told that candles were an old unsafe way to light a tree.

          I’ve never seen candles on a tree IRL.

          1. Myrin*

            I mean, I’m 29 and this year was/is the very first time my family hasn’t had candles on our tree. Granted, we’ve had a candles-only tree for the last time maybe 20 years ago and since then we’ve only ever had electric lights interspersed with like five candles which only get lighted on the 24th. I’m pretty sure though that – despite being German and someone downthread saying that this is apparently our thing? – that’s mostly because my mum is into that kind of stuff; I certainly don’t recall any of my friends every having real candles (at least prominently placed ones) on their trees even when I was little.

          2. allathian*

            I’m in Finland. Certainly my maternal grandparents, who lived in the country and always cut their Christmas trees from their own forest, insisted on real candles in their tree. We often celebrated Christmas with them. The first electric tree lights I saw were shaped like candles, they were really popular here in the 80s, and troublesome, because if one bulb burned out the whole string stopped working. We have a couple of strings of led lights in ours.

    25. pieforbreakfast*

      Living in Christmas Tree Farm land so supply and price are nice we get a real one every year, often there’s someone in the neighborhood selling them out of their yard or a fundraiser for some organization. Other times it’s a nice Sunday afternoon activity to go to the farm, get a tree and some cider and cookies.

    27. Kay*

      I’ve never had a real tree, but the tree stand always seemed like work – having to adjust it to each real tree you bring in. A real tree fell over once in my office because the stand wasn’t the right fit. Obviously other people have figured it out but it seemed like too much work for me haha

    28. Otter Dance*

      I have a fabric tree, a quilt of a Christmas tree that hangs on the wall. I decorate it with strings of beads and odd earrings and pins. (I also have two Christmas couch quilts, a Christmas table runner, Christmas placemats and napkins, and Christmas kitchen towels. Not that I’m overcompensating or anything.)
      We had to give up real or artificial trees because of the cats. One tried to eat the “needles” off an artificial tree, and I couldn’t tell you how many times trees were knocked over by cats who tried to climb them. Tinsel is also very bad for critters’ insides.
      It’s a good thing I love the little beasts more than I miss having a Christmas tree.

    29. uncivil servant*

      I had a German prof at university who explained that Germans consider fake trees kitschy, like fake lights. The class stared at her with an open mouth and asked how many houses burn down at Christmas in Germany. I understand that the tree is a Christmas Eve thing there, however. I put mine up in early December and turned the lights on every day.

      I just don’t like the hassle. Bringing a real tree home in a small car, carrying it into an apartment (real trees might be banned in the lease, I can’t remember), disposing it at the end… I just bought the cheapest artificial model at the store and it’s lasted 9 years already with no sign of damage. I have no idea how it’s possible to be so hard on a Christmas tree you touch twice a year to have it last only 3-5 years.

    30. RebelwithMouseyHair*

      We buy a tree and on 6 Jan we have a burning ceremony for which the heating is turned off, I think that’s a great way of reusing the tree.
      The first time we just shoved the entire tree in the chimney place and it burned so hard and bright we thought the entire house would burn down. Now we chop it up to burn it more sensibly, but still we make a fair blaze. . We save branches to be used to light the fire – much less harmful to the environment than those tablets.

    31. Clumsy Ninja*

      My immediate family always had a fake tree, and my grandma always had a real tree. And after a few years of visiting my grandma at Christmas and having to call the pediatrician’s office because I got sick, we finally figured out I was probably allergic to the real tree. (Which was later confirmed when I went through allergy testing.) We have a fake tree that we plan to use until it falls apart, because even though I went through all the allergy shots, no one wants to find out that I’m still allergic to something that we willingly bring into our house for a month.

      We also have two fake wreaths that we hang in our house and plan to use until they fall apart.

    32. HBJ*

      I have had both. I much prefer a fake tree. Fake are less mess. They are even and symmetrical. They can stay up longer. They also do not take up that much room for storage. The 6-foot tree we had when I was a kid came apart in three sections and folded up into a rectangular box that was about 3 feet long and 10 inches square.

  4. Kali*

    How do you deal with struggles over emotional labour? I’m going to explain my own story and why I’m asking, but I’m really more interested in hearing how others have dealt with this than being given advice specific to my situation. I’m not asking anyone to find a solution for me, just, you know, commiseration and sharing in the more general struggle of being women who date men in a world where women are expected and trained to do the work, especially for events like Christmas. Would also be interested to hear from people who date their own gender or who are bi, just to get a different perspective on the issue.

    My fiance is normally great, about most things…but there are many, important things, that just don’t get done unless I remember they need to get done, plan how he’ll get them done, and then repeatedly remind him. He swears he was just about to remember to do the thing, and it would have been fine if I hadn’t reminded him. I don’t believe him. If that were true, then it would be a really big coincidence that, just by chance, I’ve been reminding him of things he was just about to remember to do and that, also just by chance, the things I haven’t reminded him off were coincidentally the stuff he forgot about. When I pointed that out, we decided on a compromise. I’d point out when big things were coming up, and then leave him to it, so he can practice getting things done, with the eventual goal that he’d learn to notice and take care of more things all by himself. I’d like to skip straight to the second part tbh, but I guess people don’t change overnight.

    Anyway, his first task is to finish wrapping all the presents for our household Christmas, which is happening in 1 hour and 15 minutes according to his own estimate from last night (we’re British, and were allowed to visit other households yesterday, so we all had external Christmases). I crocheted all the gifts, which is why they’re being wrapped so late (i.e., I literally finished them yesterday) and now all I need to do is…nothing. And wait for him to fail or succeed. I expect the latter based on experience, but hope for the former. Luckily, we have a clear measure of success (gifts wrapped and ready downstairs by 11 am) so it doesn’t matter what I expect or hope for, there’s an objective yes or no answer.

    The other big thing is my engagement ring. I proposed, so he has a ring. He decided he would make me a ring, because I was a wood and resin ring, for multiple reasons. Not least because I have ADHD and will lose it at least once. We decided that, though it’s traditional for engagement rings to last forever, mine can be renewed and replaced as needed, like love is because love isn’t static. Anyway, we got engaged last February and he’s still not finished making it. He’s had the time, he just had days and days (which turned into weeks and months) of not doing it. I started joking that, if I didn’t have a ring within a year, the engagement would expire, he would have to propose, and I may or may not say yes. I realised that, at some point over the last week or so, this stopped being a joke, which we discussed yesterday. If he doesn’t get it done by the 9th of February, we won’t be engaged any more, and I don’t know exactly what that means for our relationship and future, but it won’t be good.

    1. WS*

      Well, yes. This is someone who doesn’t respect your work or organisation, and with ADHD you must have worked like hell to be organised. Are you planning to have kids? Because if so, you are going to be 100% responsible for everybody’s schedule/activities/medical care/schooling, and all the work that goes into that.

      My partner and I are both women, and she has ADHD, so I do more of the organising because it’s vastly less stressful for me, and much more likely to get done. The difference for me is that she respects and notices that planning, and does her absolute best to get her parts of it done even if it involves putting 10 reminders on her phone. She doesn’t say she was just about to do whatever, and doesn’t dismiss the household planning as unimportant.

      1. Lobsterp0t*

        Yeah, this “i was just about to do that” is annoying as hell. I’ve been guilty of it but I’ve realised I, as the ADHD partner myself, can say “today I am planning to do X, did you need it done by a certain time or can I do it on Jenny time?”

        1. fposte*

          Yeah, it’s not that far from a nagging charge—it puts the other person in the wrong for my own slackness in getting stuff done. I know the defensive impulse well, but it gets corrosive in this situation.

    2. Well...*

      I don’t think you can control his ability to get things done by training him into it slowly. You’re falling into the trap of doing all the things, then when you realize it’s a problem, you try to do more things to fix the problem in the form of creating an improvement program for your partner.

      You’ve got to not do as much stuff. You started off asking about emotional labor but what you described is actual labor (making gifts, wrapping gifts, getting things done by a deadline). You’ve communicated and made your fiance aware of the problem… That’s when your role ends here. He can either do stuff or not do stuff now, but it’s outside of your control.

      I would assume he isn’t going to do anything, and plan around that until he demonstrates with actions that he can be trusted. Don’t make such labor intensive gifts assuming he’ll step in: only take on projects that are big enough to do by yourself. Also, can’t he buy you a wooden ring? Why turn your engagement ring into some test? Just assume he’ll fail and plan accordingly.

      If you can’t be with the person he is, then it’s best to leave. But whether he changes or not is not about what you do next, it’s more of a gamble, with a probably distribution informed by what you already know about him.

      1. Kali*

        He wrapped the gifts! I have been proven wrong, on this occasion at least. I hope to be proved more wrong in the future.

        1. Well...*

          Yes, though I was advocating that the stress of not knowing whether or not he’ll come through until the last minute isn’t worth it. I would assume he won’t, and avoid joint projects as much as possible until he has such a demonstrated track record of success that you stop wondering and trust him to do things. Then you can start relying on him again.

          But if you’re just here for venting and not advice, feel free to ignore. It really sucks :-/

        2. WellRed*

          You were proved right this ONE time so all is well. Until the next time. Also, someone with a lack of follow through is not someone I’d trust to make a ring.

    3. 30ish*

      The thing about putting the engagement on hold at the end tells me there is much more going on here than whether your finance finishes certain chores on time. You seem to have become very resentful of him – probably rightly so because this sounds exhausting. I think this is a situation that requires counseling.

      1. Kali*

        Tbh, I specifically didn’t ask for advice because this is one snapshot of how I was feeling about things on one single morning. A morning that came after a few months of me completing a graduate degree while he’s been searching for work, and a few days of me feeling ill and adjusting to new ADHD meds, and plus just all of 2020. The pandemic hasn’t really bothered me until until just now, with how…UNChristmas, Christmas has felt. I spent most of yesterday working on an essay that’s due in January.

        So I can absolutely see why people have had the reactions they’ve had, because this single outpouring of feelings is the only thing they know about my life and so it seems like it probably describes the majority of it. I will consider all advice given, but it will be filtered through all the extra information I have from being the person living this life.

        1. KiwiApple*

          Hi Kali, you have said this quite a lot about your posts (that you’re not really looking for advice) so…what is it you would like from other’s in these threads? It’s supposed to be a place of conversation.

          1. Kali*

            The answer’s in the question – conversation. There’s one situation I’m trying to create (1) and another I’m trying to avoid (2). In my experience, the two can easily be mistaken for one another.

            1. I post a scenario and others are able to relate to it, and share their own thoughts and experiences on the general topic and how they’ve experienced. Doing more work, especially at Christmas, is very common for women. I include my own experience to explain why I’m asking, to better explain what I mean through an example, and so I’m not asking others for a level of intimacy/detail I’m not prepared to share.
            2. I’m posting a specific problem to obtain direct advice on what I should do.

            Basically, I am trying to signal that I’m trying to start a discussion like 1, not 2. Maybe other people’s experiences will be useful context for mine, maybe they won’t, but that’s a bonus, not the goal.

            It’s very easy on the internet to see a snapshot of a single situation and assume that’s the whole story (it even has a name – Availability Bias). It’s very easy to forget that humans are fallible – we don’t report things objectively, how we remember things are coloured by our current emotions, etc. So I have seen – and been on the recieving end – of situations where readers have a very specific take on a situation and any attempt from the original poster to clarify that they misspoke or forget to explain something they thought was obvious (because it is to them, they’re the one living their lives, but it’s not obvious to strangers on the Internet), or that they’ve accidentally given the wrong impression are taken as denial, or a refusal to take advice, when it’s more that the advice, though well meant, isn’t helpful or relevant. It’s a negative and frustrating situation for every one involved. It’s very natural. I know I’ve definitely caught myself being annoyed with a stranger for not seeing how helpful and relevant my advice is before realising that everything I know about the situation came from what they told me in the first place so it is a bit silly to insist I must know better than they do. On the other hand, we’ve all had those friends – or been that friend – who is blinkered to a situation and refuses to take good advice from those who are more objective. So it’s tempting to think that’s what’s happening. And maybe it is. But I don’t think anyone can easily tell the difference between “op is too close to the situation” and “internet stranger doesn’t have the full picture”, so, if it reaches that point, you just start arguing at cross purposes about which scenario you’re in with no real way to tell. In light of that, I’m open to other people’s thoughts and experiences containing ideas that may be helpful and informative for my own situation, but I think it will be less frustrating overall if I’m making that judgement rather than asking someone else to decide what will be relevant and helpful for me. And, like I said, that would be a bonus, not the point.

            I’m still figuring out the best way to avoid implying situation 1 when I’m hoping for situation 2, so if you had any suggestions there on how to more clearly signal intentions and what would have made my intention for scenario 1 clearer, that would be very welcome!

            1. kiwiapple*

              This doesn’t feel like a conversation though – I feel like you’re talking *at* me rather than *with* me. Like Avonlady Barksdale suggests, you could maybe try posing a conversation topic (i.e. in this example, you could’ve asked the same question with only the first paragraph) but it will be more general rather than specific (which I think is what you want? Since you don’t want advice on your specific situation from what I can see of your responses from other commentators in the thread).

              I wish you and your partner all the best for 2021!

            2. Ramona Q*

              In addition to folks’ advice that you not share personal stories if you don’t want people to comment on them, it seems like would be a lot easier for people to engage in the kind of conversation you want if you edited down your posts. Your point is often very hard to parse amid all the rest of your paragraphs.

            3. Courageous cat*

              This seems a bit overwrought, and like you’re trying to control something you can’t control here – given how thin the line is between conversation and advice (?) in a forum like this.

              I think it’s very obvious that, when people give you advice over the internet, they assume that you will take what you need from that advice and apply it or do not apply it based on your own situation. It is not someone telling you exactly what to do, or ordering you around, or making grand assumptions. It is simply: “I read the situations, here are my thoughts, take it or leave it”.

              I don’t think it needs a huge wall of defensiveness. Of course you know your own situation better than anyone else. I just would try not to assume the worst from people responding to you who, also, know that.

            4. RagingADHD*

              If you don’t mind me making a leap here (because that’s what my brain does), I see a pattern.

              You want a very, very particular response. You are trying to figure out how to get people to do this really specific thing, and consider anything else a “wrong” result.

              That’s not how people work -not strangers on the internet, and not IRL relationships either.

              You will spend more time being happy and having satisfying interactions if you let life be jazz instead of classical.

              We’re all improvising. You can hate that, or you can embrace it. Embracing it is more fun, and (BTW) more respectful of other people.

            5. Ask a Manager* Post author

              Maybe I can simplify this by saying with a moderator hat on — if you post a personal situation here, you are going to get advice from people who read it. This is an advice blog and that’s what people are used to doing here. If you don’t want people to respond with advice, please just don’t post the situation.

              I agree with Courageous Cat above that people’s intent is “here are my thoughts, take it or leave it” and you can indeed take it or leave it; you don’t need to feel obligated to respond, explain, defend, etc.

            6. Disco Janet*

              Trying to point out here how easy and natural it is to go against or misunderstand what an OP asks for in these open threads.

              Another poster asked for discussion on non-academic things that should be taught in schools. Most of your response was science-based, and you acknowledged that is academic and therefore not what the OP was asking for…but it’s still what most of your comment was about. So that’s a pretty good example of how some posters will take their response where they’d like rather than where you’re asking them to.

              1. Kali*

                I think there is a very clear and obvious difference between answering an abstract question about what should be taught in schools outside the bounds of the initial question…and offering advice and opinions on someone’s actual life when they’ve specifically asked that that not be done.

                It seemed pretty clear to me that I posted a general question (first paragraph) and then my own response to it. It didn’t occur to me that posting just the initial question then waiting a while and adding the rest as a response would make a difference. Now that’s been suggested, I can see how it might be effective in disconnecting the “thing I want an answer to (general question)” from “my response (which I am not specifically asking for help with)”.

                1. Disco Janet*

                  Since I’m someone in education who helps make decisions, while that question reads as an obvious hypothetical to you – it isn’t to everyone. So I wouldn’t call it clearly and obviously different.

                2. Myrin*

                  For whatever it’s worth, I think that you were very clear in making a distinction between the general question and your own response to it but I also think that it doesn’t really matter.

                  What I mean by that is that you literally said “I’m going to explain my own story and why I’m asking, but I’m really more interested in hearing how others have dealt with this than being given advice specific to my situation. I’m not asking anyone to find a solution for me, just, you know, commiseration and sharing in the more general struggle” which doesn’t leave much room to interpretation – from your words alone, it’s entirely clear that you’re not asking for advice but simply would like to hear about different experiences and perspectives.

                  But I think there are three things which make this basically irrelevant in this case:
                  1. This is an advice column, so the people reading here are interested in and used to giving advice (when it comes to this website but also in general).
                  2. People just like to give advice in general when they encounter a situation that is less than perfect; I see it so often that I’d say it’s basically human nature.
                  3. Your general question – and the thing you wanted advice to – was only about one fourth of your comment and also at the very beginning – I’m willing to bet that by the time they’ve finished reading your entire comment, many people had already forgotten that there was a general question in the beginning and the main thing they’re taking away from your comment are the feelings your description of your situation evoked in them.

                  I’m actually similar to you – I’d naturally view this the same way you do, and add to that that I’m a trained literary scientist who reads and analyses even comments on an internet advice forum super carefully and you’ll also have someone who doesn’t get why people keep giving advice on something when she explicitly only asked for commiseration. So I also had to learn the “decoupling of general questions and specific answers” thing you mention, where I restrict myself to either asking ONLY the question and not giving my own experience at all or replying to myself in a separate comment, and I’ve found that it makes for much more enjoyable interaction on my part.

        2. AvonLady Barksdale*

          That’s really not fair to people who read and respond to you via this forum. As KiwiApple notes, you’ve said that about your posts before. People here can only go with what you tell them, and it’s natural to advise based on that plus your question. Of course we can’t know every single detail, and it would be impractical to share every single detail, but you also can’t post about your life and relationship on this forum and expect people not to respond in a way that makes sense to them. We come here for the benefit of others’ experiences.

          If you truly want only discussion, as you say, you might try posting the question only without the background. (Which is advice that is intended to help you solve what you perceive as a problem.)

          1. Kali*

            I don’t expect people not to respond in whatever ways feels natural. I’m signalling my intention in posting in the hopes it will decrease frustration for everyone, having received feedback that my intentions were unclear before. I checked the point of these posts and they are for discussion, not for commenters to respond to requests for advice in the same way Alison does (though that is also part of it). So the problem does seem to be with communication of intent, not with expectations of what these comments are for.

            At the very least, I’m hoping it will have the effect of giving me permission to ignore advice which is, again, well meant, but irrelevant or unhelpful, without feeling the need to explain the misunderstanding, which, like I said, only leads to frustration for everyone.

            1. Tired of Covid-and People*

              You don’t need permission to ignore anything on the internet.

              Women always have and always will do the bulk of the labor in hetero relationships, emotional and otherwise. I’ve never seen a man “make” Christmas, in all of my 65 years. Whatever they do is appreciated far beyond the scope of their actual actions, while the woman loses her mind at Christmas trying to make it perfect for everyone and may not even get a thank you. It’s just expected and taken for granted.

              Personally, I’m not trying to raise an adult to be accountable and responsible, but that’s just me. I’ve been down that road of codependency, trying to control someones behavior. Nah. Just let natural consequences take their course. It’s amazing how people can rise to the occasion when other people stop doing the heavy lifting for them.

              To each their own.

              1. self employed*

                “ I’ve never seen a man “make” Christmas”

                Oh, very good point. I think I will reflect on that.

                2. pancakes*

                  I don’t agree. It seems to depict a world in which gay men simply don’t celebrate Christmas, for starters, which isn’t the world I live in. It also seems to depict a world in which hetero relationships are only ever very cliched, which isn’t the world I live in either.

              2. D'Euly*

                I, on the other hand, have seen men “make Christmas” repeatedly. I know for a fact there are quite a few single dads out there who did it yesterday, for example. Trends are one thing; allowing trends to define our understanding of individuals we’re in relationship with is quite another.

                1. ThatGirl*

                  Sure… but in your example it’s a dad whose kids are relying on him. Men are certainly capable of this stuff, but a lot of them, if there are women around, will default to that. It’s never ALL men but it’s certainly a thing.

              3. TL -*

                My dad “made” Thanksgiving this year – he has 4 grown adult children and only one ended up making it. He did it because he wanted the tradition to continue (and my parents had a very traditionally gendered marriage, so he had never done it before.) Men can do it; it’s just that they’re taught all their life if they don’t, a woman will, so why bother?

          2. Kali*

            NB. I will consider posting just the question and then waiting a while before posting my own experience in the comments. I’m wary because there’s still the risk of people getting the wrong end of the stick about why I’m asking or what I mean, and because it feels a bit dishonest to ask people for their own experiences without sharing mine. But it’s worth a go.

            1. EventPlannerGal*

              I think that would be the best idea, yes – even if you’re wary, the thing is that you can’t really control whether people will respond to you in exactly the way you’re looking for without ever getting the wrong end of the stick about something. It doesn’t really matter how many disclaimers or directives that you are only interested in X type of response you include, sometimes people are just going to talk about what they see as interesting. That’s people for you!

              The best you can do is to not include things in your OP that will very obviously garner the particular type of response that you’re trying to avoid, rather than including them then telling everyone not to talk about them.

            2. General von Klinkerhoffen*

              I think even posting your example as a reply rather than within the top level post can change how people respond.

              eg

              What did people’s cats enjoy this weekend?
              > My feline overlord licked a plate with gravy on it.

          3. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

            Bingo – if you don’t want people to give you relationship advice, then don’t include the specific situations that apparently are significant enough that they have you ready to put an expiration date on your entire engagement, by your own description. It’s very easy to start a discussion about unbalanced emotional labor without the examples, and people aren’t looking at your discussion going “Well, I’m not going to participate in this discussion with MY examples because THEY didn’t include examples too, harumph harumph.” If you don’t want a specific thing discussed, then don’t be the first one to bring it up.

        3. Lobsterp0t*

          I wonder if part of this is a bit of ADHD related rejection sensitivity? How does his failure to do this stuff make you feel?

        4. Former Employee*

          This isn’t relationship advice. It’s purely practical.

          Find a ring you like and have him buy it once he is established in a new job. You can get some lovely rings for under $200. I know because I went online to check it out. Almost any type of stone can be found for that low of a price.

          While a sapphire ring won’t be as incredible as the one Prince William gave to Kate Middleton, you could still get a really nice one for around that price.

          And if you only take it off at home and always put it in the same place, it won’t get lost.

          Happy Holidays.

    4. Green great dragon*

      Yeh. You don’t say how he reacts if he fails to do thing by deadline, but maybe that hasn’t happened yet? I (female) also did most of that, because I have higher standards than him and don’t want to end up spending extra time or money to solve unnecessary problems. He had other qualities, so we went with that. But he could step up when he had to – like he planned, bought and made dinner every time I had a late shift, and if it was ready meals picked up at the last minute – well, it was still food I didn’t need to make. And if it was something he’d promised to do, I completely stayed out of it, it was done to his standards not mine, and so anything I really cared about I would be in charge.

      There was also the flatmate where we ended up alternating days we were in charge of washing up. And the rule was if you didn’t do it promptly, you also did any of the dishes that accumulated between the time you were meant to do it and the time you actually did it. So every time we hit the point of no more clean dishes and I did need to remind him, at least I had the bonus of him doing most of ‘my’ day of washing up as well as his own.

    5. allathian*

      I’m a woman married to a man. I have problems with exhaustion and my husband is a marathon runner with lots of energy. So, in our household, he’s the one who does more of the physical labor, but I expect I do at least as much of the planning as he does. Some things we do together, like shopping lists, because he’s also our main cook. He also plans lots of projects he wants to do around the house, and I’m just happy that I don’t have to spend any mental or physical energy on them. I’d never live in an one-family house without my husband, it’s more work than I’d be willing to take on alone.

      This year it was just the three of us for Christmas, but normally we’d host my parents, sister, and in-laws (including SIL if she can make it, but because she’s a Lutheran preacher in another town, she’s usually working on Christian holidays). I’ve been responsible for writing our Christmas cards. This year I told my husband that I was just not feeling it and left it to him to buy the cards and stamps. We didn’t send any cards to our contemporaries this year, just to some aunts and uncles on both sides, and I asked my husband to write the cards to his family members…

      I’m sorry things are so tough for you right now, it sounds like you’re at the end of your rope. Everyone has the capacity to change, but they have to want to do it themselves. Your fiancé doesn’t seem willing to change and you can’t really force him to. If you nag and complain, it’s not going to make your relationship better. You’ll just have to decide whether you’re willing to put up with him as he is, or whether this is a dealbreaker for you.

    6. Ellyfant*

      I could write a book about this topic because I’ve taken on so much emotional laboring my entire life. It led to multiple mental breakdowns and many months of therapy this past year. Long story short I am doing a lot better now. But I’m still in the process of healing from doing so much for other people. It really got to a point where I was thinking: either my family needs to take responsibility for their own life and stop over relying on me, or i will sever ties with them, or if that fails I will end my life as I can’t do this any more.

      I’m grateful I got professional help to get through this because emotional labour can cause sickness and damage your soul the way excessive physical labour can cause serious bodily injuries. Thankfully in my case my family recognized the damage and have stopped expecting me to do everything. But it shouldn’t have had to be this way.

    7. Yennefer of Vengerberg*

      I had a similar issue with my husband. It would drive me mental and cause a lot of annoyance on my part while he lived in blissful ignorance (until of course I got angry and would tell him what’s what).

      The way I dealt with it: I embraced the (pardon the stereotype) “man” mindset. I decided if this stuff didn’t bother him, it wouldn’t bother me. Why should I be the one trying to enforce some kind of “ideal” lifestyle and way of doing things that clearly wasn’t for us, since I was also unwilling to do the work and/or nagging that was needed to achieve that lifestyle. We split the chores (I.e., I cook one week, he cooks the next) and I left him to it. And surprise, he figured out how to do it. If it ever got out of hand, for example, if it was his turn to do dishes and the dishes were piled sky high, I would just ask nicely once, “can you do the dishes”. They would probably stay in the sink a little longer than I would like, but he would do them in his own time. If the presents don’t get wrapped on time and he has to rush last minute, so what. He functioned as a human before I showed up and he can continue to do so. Plus I firmly believe, the more you baby someone, the more they start to rely on that babying and I’m not about to live that life.

      1. Yennefer of Vengerberg*

        Maybe I’ll add that we’re not planning to have kids… but I don’t think that would change things. Hubby has been gotten quite good at doing his fair share. Open communication, clearly divided responsibilities, and treating him like an adult (and not a man-child) actually worked. Who’d have thunk it.

        1. Tabby*

          YES THIS. As a professional procrastinator, I can confirm that the babying and snatching things from me to do FOR me does not help — at all. I am perfectly capable of doing things, even if it takes me longer because I am inattentive and scattered, and do not need a mommy to loom over me, forcing along a schedule that doesn’t work for me. And guaran-damn-teed, I will forget something if it’s tried! For example, every time I leave the house, I do a fixed-list check in my head: phone, headphones, keys (with client for the day keys attached), and wallet. And every time, my mother will butt into this process to ask if i have everything, am I sure I’m dressed warmly enough (No, mom, I certainly do NOT need to pull out my heavy leather jacket yet, and it may be that I never will — I get hot too quickly, so I always slightly underdress), say bye to the cats… it’s endless a d aggravating.

          If you are doing this sort of thing, stop it. Stop it right now. He either will or he won’t, but constantly talking AT him about it will not get you the desired outcome. Stop trying to make him like you; he isn’t gonna be that person, ever.

      2. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

        All of this. Sometimes called going with the flow and being a bit more relaxed. I also use the tactic of putting what needs to be done on his office chair (as in, I wrapped your family’s gifts, but YOU get to go to the post office, here is the box). He will never hang up the laundry exactly as I would have but who cares, he thought to take it out of the washing machine in the first place and hang it up to dry. Let go of the little things and trust in your partner.

        Also, if I want to put labor on myself or there is something I need done a particular way for whatever reason/preference, I do it. I may ask for help and assign him what I know to be in his skill and interest range, but otherwise I know its on me if its important and plan accordingly.

        1. RagingADHD*

          Anything about laundry cracks me up in this context. In the early days as a SAHM I used to fold all his clothes because programmed expectations.

          Then I caught him re-folding everything because he didn’t like the way I did it (but would never dream of saying something so entitled).

          Now I don’t bother, and we’re both happier.

        2. The king of Rochester*

          This is why I (I’m a guy) have very little desire to partner up. I have no desire for someone to “assign” me domestic tasks — in my own home — that are “in my skill set and interest range” as if I were a preschooler. And if on occasion I decide to leave dirty dishes in the sink overnight and do them the next day, I can do that without anyone lecturing me in my own home.

          1. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

            What I meant was I know (and he knows) he is terrible at gift wrapping and really won’t do it. So I deal with it but Im not going to do everything for him, he has to do the rest.

            Otherwise he is a fully formed adult who can (and does) take out the trash, empty the dishwasher, cook a few times a week, deal with the laundry and, the big one, deal with the bills because I absolutely cannot deal with that for whatever reason. There is no nagging, there is no “assigning” like he is a toddler for basic life skills. I meant that more in the sense of special projects or activities outside the general norm its usually easier to come to an agreement/recognition what each person can do and divvy up accordingly.

      3. Washi*

        Agreed. My husband absolutely does his share, but just living with another person, I have learned to embrace more of the stereotypical “man” mindset of just doing what *I* want sometimes. Because I grew up watching my mom and grandmothers constantly cleaning up and helping everyone all the time, it took me a while to be able to see something that needs doing and just…not do it if I didn’t feel like it.

        Around the holidays, my husband is responsible for dealing with his family’s presents. This year I did actually make some stuff for my in-laws, but I told him where I put the presents and I never bothered to follow up about it because it’s his job. Sometimes we show up to a holiday with his family empty-handed, and not gonna lie it’s a little weird, but I’ve decided that I am not going to become the person in charge of presents, so I let it be weird.

      4. kt*

        I’ve basically done the same — and I am also somewhat aware of my own very annoying flaws (and have become more aware over the years of marriage :) ). Over time I have learned that my husband and I value and see different kinds of cleanliness, for instance (I’m a piler and he’s a hider, and there are things I always make sure are clean and things that he always makes sure are clean).

        I worried about parenting, too; we ended up having a kid and I do remind myself to trust him (he’s heading across a frozen swamp with our child — do I fuss/yell at them or let them go? — he is a reasonably competent adult and I do recall he was testing the ice thickness earlier — let them go, it’s a fun adventure and we have dry clothes in the car…). Sure, I have to talk myself through it sometimes, but I think it’s important to not parent my spouse, basically.

        He mostly does the Christmas cards. He does a lot of the gifts. He does some of the Christmas cooking (this year I did more but he was shoveling, so we were both contributing). I do not swoop in to “make sure things get done”. Some things don’t get done.

        I have given up on him doing a few things I’d like. Making restaurant reservations (not currently an issue!) and buying flowers are once-in-a-decade events, literally. But he makes weekend breakfast almost every weekend, so which do I really benefit from more? Easy answer on Saturday mornings ;)

        What is acceptable to you? What do you really value? What emotional labor are you willing to let go undone? What will get done in a way you don’t recognize but would actually work fine, if you left it to your partner? (A lot of the parenting stuff my partner does is done quite differently than I’d do it. It surprised me, but in the end I like it.)

    8. Cheesesteak in Paradise*

      This isn’t emotional labor. It’s actual labor (task completion).

      Outside of gifts and rings, how much of the household tasks does your fiancé do (20%? 50%?)? If a task is his (say cleaning bathroom floor 2x per month), does he do it without reminding? How happy are you about household division of labor on a daily and weekly and monthly basis since the tasks you describe as either rare (annual gifts) or one-offs (rings)?

      Keep in mind if the chore division is bad now, marriage, kids, pets, and passage of time all tend to make it worse.

    9. Cheesesteak in Paradise*

      I would also add that my ideal approach (that I have trouble with implementation myself in my real life) is natural consequences. If forgetting to do the task won’t result in someone bleeding to death or getting evicted, let the person forget.

      If your fiancé’s parent’s friends don’t get thank you notes and yours do? Oh well. If your fiancé doesn’t make his biannual dental appointment? Oh well. If he gets a ticket for his car inspection lapsing, oh well. Eventually these consequences get uncomfortable and he will learn.

      1. Lobsterp0t*

        Same in our house, if it’s the other persons thing and the consequences really mainly affect them – OK!

      2. Not playing your game anymore*

        Yes. We operate on a “who cares about this” model. I am picky about food and need to eat on a schedule so I do most of the cooking. I get my dishes and whatever pots I used washed or in the dishwasher, my partner is responsible for getting their dishes into the dishwasher. Someone will press the button when the spirit moves. My partner occasionally fixes something that they are hungry for that I can’t eat. If I absolutely don’t feel like cooking, I ask for one of the things they can cook that I like and they’ll fix it, or occasionally offer to get a pizza instead. If I’m hungry for something they don’t eat, I will give them a heads up. Thursday. Corned beef and cabbage! Save yourself! They are fussier about how the laundry is done and folded. My job is to get my laundry into the basket. If the socks are on the floor or under the bed, they don’t get washed. Who ever is bothered by the noseart cleans the windows… I would no more “assign” a task to my partner than I would accept said assignment.

        It works for us because we have similar tolerance for mess… and no human children to throw us off stride.

        1. Cedrus Libani*

          We are also a “who cares” family. I do the laundry, because I own a week’s worth of clothes and I therefore must do laundry once a week, while my partner has a dragon’s hoard of stuff that could hold out for months. He does the dusting / vacuuming / etc, because he has dust allergies, while as long as the dust bunnies are smaller than the cats I figure it’s good enough.

          Neither of us enjoy doing the dishes, but we don’t enjoy having dirty dishes everywhere either, so we came up with a compromise. It’s my job to load the dishwasher, and his job to put the clean dishes away. If the dishes are piling up, we don’t have to argue about whose mess it is.

    10. Not So NewReader*

      I agree with the person who said that this is not emotional labor. He’s not doing the physical labor that comes with life/relationships/commitments. It’s taxing you emotionally, yes, that is true. But he’s not pulling his weight. That’s what is actually happening.

      I married a guy like this. It did not change. In some ways I accepted it because having control over my own life was of high value to me. He was happy with decisions I made about things for the most part. There were areas, such as technical stuff. where he was clearly the over-achiever, so I was content with whatever he picked out. (It was high quality stuff that I never would have been able to pick out.)

      As the decades rolled by decision fatigue set in for me. I got tired of carrying the heavy end. I wanted him to help do the lifting with me. For example, I stopped buying presents and cards for his family because I had to do my own family. He never picked up what I dropped. I learned to accept that by figuring I don’t know everything I should know about his family dynamic. Perhaps there were reasons for his INaction. It seemed like I should know, but reality is I didn’t. There were other things I let go of, this is just one example.

      I learned to expect less and cherish more. For example, I stopped expecting that big colonial house and learned to cherish the modest, comfy, cozy house I do have. I wanted a pure breed dog and ended up with a mutt who was The Dog of my life.

      It’s funny/odd but I grew to see that there is a difference between being happy and being content. Contentment is more enduring and much stronger. I was always safe when I was with him. He was so freakin’ smart, he knew about all kinds of stuff. So when there was smoke rolling off the furnace, that wasn’t a problem. When the sewage backup up into the house, that wasn’t a problem. I had married this walking encyclopedia of random technical knowledge.
      If there was a problem with something, I couldn’t wait for him to come home because I knew we’d talk it through and come up with a plan to deal with it. Whatever “it” was. And there were plenty of days where I saw his actions express the same sentiment. He wanted me to look at an issue with him.

      For me, the big picture became this: NO spouse offers the total package of every desirable trait. If I am totally honest with myself, I have to say that *I* did not offer that total package either. My guy had several things that I placed a high value on and he was very consistent with those traits. We started out like you show here. And we stayed together. But it was not without letting go of some dreams and some hopes. I guess my only caution is to plan that he won’t change that much. What you see now, is what there is to see. Is it worth it to you? Are you getting something out of the relationship that is of high value to you? Our life mates are equally responsible for the quality of life we have as a couple. Do you think that the two of you will have the level of quality of life you want?

      For me, I voted yes on all this. We were together for 27 years and married 23 years of those years when he passed. I worked hard. While I have no regrets, I am not in a rush to do it again, either.

      1. Washi*

        “I have to say that *I* did not offer that total package either.” Aw, I think this is a nice point. It’s one thing to intellectually know that no one is perfect, everyone has faults, etc but when you’re in a long term partnership, the reality of that can still come as a surprise. My husband and I both have our faults and they are not cute, endearing quirks like in a romcom where the protagonist is perfect except for being a little clumsy or ordering her food a certain way. We each have insecurities and blind spots that come out in problematic, definitely not cute ways. Yes, people change and compromise but there will always be faults, and to me the question is mainly whether your strengths/weaknesses balance each other out or are always rubbing the wrong way.

        I think this also takes a certain amount of self-knowledge, because sometimes something can bother you more and more, OR less and less. I felt like I knew my husband really well when we got engaged after 5 years of dating, and yet only another five years later I know him so much more and honestly feel like we partly got lucky that the things we didn’t know at the time have turned out to mesh ok.

        1. Tired of Covid-and People*

          The question is, is it faults you can live with? There are deal breakers for sure, but I think women in particular have to insure that they just don’t settle for fear of being alone. That said, very often we need to cut others some slack, offer forbearance, and if they do the same for us then a relationship can last a long time. But not on big stuff.

          And, you never really know anybody 100%, not even yourself.

    11. Jay*

      The tasks that aren’t getting done are physical labor. The reminding and keeping track is mental/emotional labor.

      My husband was raised to believe that having a penis did not exempt him from any household tasks. So yay! He came into the marriage expecting to cook, clean, and do laundry. Unfortunately, he learned to do the cleaning by being brought back repeatedly to them again until they were up his mother’s standards. I do not clean to her standards and so he spent the first six months of our marriage correcting and criticizing how I did everything. And so I stopped doing regular cleaning and learned to do the dishes his way. We’ve been subverting gender norms for over 30 years in many ways. Once we were both working full-time and neither of us did regular cleaning, we hired housecleaners. And he’s pretty much gotten over the correcting/criticizing thing – couples counseling FTW.

      He’s also a procrastinator and perfectionist with tendency to anxiety, so he starts projects and abandons them. When that happens in his workshop (where I never venture) that’s fine. When he dismantles something in the house to fix it and then leaves it dismantled for months, that’s not fine. That got better when I started saying things like “when you leave hardware all over the kitchen counter, it makes me feel like it’s not my kitchen” rather than “You always leave hardware on the kitchen counter and you have to put it away.” He actually does care about how I feel, and it helped him to understand the impact on me.

      I take responsibility for the things that are important to me and I let everything else go. I don’t assign him things to do. If I want a present wrapped, I wrap it. We don’t send holiday cards because I don’t care about them and apparently neither does he. He sometimes forgets his family’s birthdays because that’s his family and his responsibility. He has never mailed a present on time. My mother-in-law said something once about this and I said “Talk to your son. It’s his job, not mine.” I reject the idea that I should be ashamed if he doesn’t do something. No one has ever said another word about it. And I did the same thing when our daughter came along. I refused to be the baby expert. Luckily by then we had honed our communication skills and he also very much wanted to be an involved parent. For a while he was actually the primary parent. Did he match toddler clothes the way I would have? No. Did he make as good a ponytail? No. Did our daughter grow up happy and healthy? Yup. Does she specifically look for boyfriends who pull their own weight because that’s what she expects? Yup.

      The emotional labor was much, much harder to deal with. Much harder. For years – decades, actually – I was responsible for how he felt. I monitored his mood and twisted myself and the household to avoid triggering his anxiety. I rarely asked for emotional support myself, which did not help my own mental health. That might have gone on forever – or until I got fed up and left – except that my mother developed dementia. I simply could not manage the emotional labor of the marriage and when things got rough I told him he needed a therapist and I was resigning from the job. That was ten years ago. It’s still a work in progress but it’s much much better.

      tl;dr: I choose my battles and I don’t choose very many. I’m clear about what I need and about the impact of his behavior. I don’t assign him work. If he takes something on, I accept the way he does it or I tell him respectfully that I prefer something else.

    12. Elspeth McGillicuddy*

      I gotta say, unfinished crafty projects aren’t a man thing, they are a crafter thing. I am female and have…a lot of things I want to finish. The big home decor project that I wanted to get finished by thanksgiving, but I need to rip out a dozen feet of wrong sewing so it hasn’t gotten done. The pair of pants that just need to be hemmed and the hooks put on the waistband. The pattern I’m drafting that needs a second mockup. The set of shelves I sanded to repaint over a year ago. The dresser I want to repaint RED, but only got as far as picking out the right shade And there are more, those are just the first ones that came to mind.

      I don’t think you can blame the delay in ring making on his being a dude. The other stuff, probably, but not this one.

      Still have to figure out how to deal with it, of course.

    13. Sunrise*

      I am a women married to a man. I’ve been very frustrated over the years with having to do the lion’s share of planning and remembering. One thing that has really helped is embracing technology. Now when husband agrees to do a thing, I’ll also suggest he set a reminder on his phone or other device. That has helped so much. It’s not perfect but it transfers the reminding (which can come across as nagging) from me to an electronic device. And when the reminder pops up he actually does the thing. Usually.

    14. Lobsterp0t*

      Well, it seems like the horse has left the barn here.

      My mom has a great thing she learned in therapy. You can’t keep a secret book of stamps of every little and large fuck up your partner makes. If you do you’ll bring that metaphorical book of wrongs into every conversation and situation where someone might have earned another stamp. Pretty soon, that’s the only record of your partnership.

      In my house we have to help each other a lot. We rarely have household tasks that just one of us is responsible for and we don’t leave the other person to fail.

      Sometimes this means we have to get organised together and ruthlessly prioritise.

      I have ADHD too and I feel like that makes me more, not less, empathetic toward my wife when she doesn’t manage to get her ducks in a row for stuff.

      That isn’t to say you’re being unkind but it is to say, you sound like you’re at a point of frustration where your kindness is taking a back seat to frustration.

      When we get into that we usually have to reframe stuff. As in, okay I’m pissed. What need of mine is t being met? Is it that the gifts being wrapped is of emotional importance to me? Is it that I feel I did “my bit” and I want this person to do theirs without prompting?

      Then we talk about it and work out what is most important to the other person. And we decide what to prioritise in the situation, together. Through talking about our needs and wants.

      And I guess we just learn to let go of stuff that isn’t going to happen on its own. Like if one of us is having to remind constantly then we have a convo about that and it’s like – okay, so the presents don’t get wrapped. What happens if that’s the case? Sometimes it isn’t presents but rather rigid expectations of things needing to be a certain way. But in the case of something that is truly impossible for someone to let go of, it becomes about getting that persons needs met if at all possible.

      I guess you can choose to let his stuff slide and just take care of your stuff but then it makes me question how much partnership is really happening.

      But being in this situation makes me question how much effective communication is really happening.

      You’re allowed to have limits and not want to be in a parent child dynamic with your partner.

      1. The future*

        So I’m 20 years into this marriage and I wish I had had this insight then. Is he able to hold down a job? Can he plan/organize when he wants to? Are you ready to be responsible for everything…bills, meals, doctors appointments, medication refills, caretaking (children and elders)? Can you accept that you will rarely get a Christmas/birthday present that you didn’t pick out yourself? Just go into this with your eyes open.

        1. Clisby*

          “Can you accept that you will rarely get a Christmas/birthday present that you didn’t pick out yourself?”

          I embrace it. I’m not fond of surprises, and would really like to get a Christmas/birthday present I want. My husband and I give only token “surprise” presents – maybe a CD or a book. Anything else is discussed ahead of time, and often we go out and buy a joint present that we both really want.

          1. allathian*

            Yeah, same here. Until we actually decided that we’re done with gifts. The bother of picking out a gift and buying outweighs any pleasure from receiving a gift by at least an order of magnitude. So no gifts. If I want flowers, I’ll buy them myself, I don’t think the idea of buying me flowers has ever occurred to my husband.

            For the record, I hate surpises with a passion, even happy ones. I much prefer anticipation and planning. If somebody organized a surprise party for me, I’d probably turn on my heels and walk away or sulk in a corner. Luckily I’m from a culture where the person being celebrated is nearly always the host as well. The big exception seems to be some weddings, but only if one or both of the bridal couple are marrying from their childhood home. Most couples live together before getting married, and in such cases I’ve never been to a wedding that was hosted by someone other than the couple.

            1. Clisby*

              My mother told me that, fairly early in their marriage, my father told her NEVER to organize a surprise birthday party for him. If she did, he would walk out. I guess I come by this honestly.

    16. Not A Manager*

      I’m happy to not give you advice, because I don’t have any. Yes, I do more emotional labor in my relationship. No, I don’t like it. I use a combination of “let it go,” and “do it myself.” If something really is my husband’s responsibility, either it will get done or it won’t get done, and he’ll either do it to my standards or he won’t do it to my standards. He’s an adult, he has standards.

      The other thing we try to do is be really clear on who “owns” what project or task. The hardest thing is when we’re supposed to cooperate or collaborate on something, because no one knows who’s in charge and what the standards are, or who’s supposed to intuit what task comes next. That’s why we’re better off dividing stuff up really clearly and then literally walking away.

    17. RagingADHD*

      Putting giant stakes and expectations on a craft project is a surefire way to trigger perfection paralysis. I mean, what if he made it and you don’t like it? I’d never be able to get something planned, much less finished, under those conditions.

      I have ADHD, and so does my husband, but at the time we married we suspected his but didn’t realize about mine.

      We didn’t start dating until I was 32. So what I learned in those -what, 14 years? of single adulthood was what would work for me in a relationship, what flaws I could live with, and what I couldn’t.

      I dealt with the emotional labor in the relationship by only doing the part I felt was truly mine, and allowing him to fail if he didn’t do his own. And over the course of our dating, the failures were minor enough (and usually due to misunderstandings) that I was very happy and satisfied that we could make a loving & happy marriage. Which has been true now for some 17 years.

      The biggest thing for my peace of mind, which I only truly learned after we’d been married a while, was to decouple my own social obligations from his.

      If he wants his family to get cards or birthday calls, that’s his business. I don’t remind him.

      If a mutual friend wants to talk to him, they have to deal directly. I don’t pass messages or take responsibility for him responding.

      If there’s something I want to make sure happens in my own relationships (like presents) I do it myself, and don’t sign him up for work that wasn’t his idea.

      One thing I discovered that always led to conflict, was when I tried ro hold him to things that “we agreed to.”

      Usually what that meant was that *I* thought of something, I had a grand plan of how it was supposed to work, and he was okay with it. But he never was as invested in it as I was, and therefore wasn’t ever going to make that emotional or physical labor a priority.

      To be fair, why should he? It was my idea in the first place. He just wasn’t *against* it.

      And that’s become an excellent guiding principle for most things in our marriage. There are a few major things (like having kids) where we both explicitly were 100% all-in and took equal responsibility. Other stuff, like planning trips or tackling projects, the person who had the idea is responsible for making it happen.

      So I guess in your situation, I wouldn’t make the marriage contingent on the handmade ring. I would express that I want A Ring, and the handmade idea is cool but not a dealbreaker.

      If you base your relationship on arbitrary tests of love/committment, you will always force a situation where the other person fails. A happy long-term relationship is the result of both people trying to help the other succeed.

      If he shows you daily that he loves, respects and supports you, don’t make a craft project into a dealbreaker. Give him the flexibility to find his own way to succeed in loving you well.

    18. Overeducated*

      I have been married nine years and things have gotten better on this front. I think part of it is literal external reminders – my husband *will not* remember to do things, or do them by a certain point, if they are not on his Google calendar. The other thing is division of labor. In our everyday life i do take on a lot more of the planning, tracking, and emotional labor, but he takes care of more of the actual stuff that needs to get done on a repetitive basis (dishes, trash, bills, vacuuming; I do more cooking and laundry). Currently neither of us feels like we have a lopsided division of labor, which I feel like is unusual in a hetero marriage. I think counting traditionally “women’s work” AS work is key, not just letting it become invisible.

      I have been there, though, in feeling like “you not doing X for me makes me feel like you don’t value me enough and that’s not acceptable.” Sometimes a task is not just a task, it’s a symbol, and that needs to be *crystal* clear.

    19. Courageous cat*

      How I dealt with it: I broke up with him. Ultimately, the resentment was too strong.

      Funny enough, me doing that was the catalyst for him changing, and he’s actually way better now and we get along soooo much better as friends (minus the fact that he asked to take me back the other day, but that’s neither here nor there).

      1. Courageous cat*

        That said, with my current boyfriend I’d be much more willing to deal with it – why? Because he would be balancing it out in other ways. Making more money, managing the money, paying the bills.

        Adult life is a lot easier if you have someone to help you go through it, and I’d be happy to take on emotional labor for someone who takes on other kinds of labor too. The problem is when they don’t take on anything else.

    20. The Other Dawn*

      I’m a woman married to a man. We’ve been together 30 years next February. I definitely do more of the emotional labor and planning, but I’m fine with that. It used to really bother me, but I’ve mellowed as I’ve gotten older. You know why? Because he’s the one who does all the tough, grimy jobs I don’t know how or want to do, and does a lot of the heavy lifting in terms of physical labor. But he pitches in to do the housework, just as I pitch in to help with home improvement projects. I feel like it all evens out.

      This is just my observation on the gift wrapping thing, and it doesn’t matter anyway since you said that he did the job. I would be pretty annoyed if I had a short deadline for something, especially around a holiday. Without context I have no way of knowing if that was a reasonable deadline. You mentioned that you crocheted all the gifts that he’s supposed to wrap, and that you finished them only yesterday and his wrapping deadline was this morning. How many gifts were there? Did you finish them early in the day? Mid-day or later? Were you able to give him items as you finished them so he didn’t have to wait and do it all at once? Were all the needed wrapping supplies already there? Maybe he didn’t do it earlier because he had to work, or had other commitments or things he had to do?

    21. AwkwardTurtle*

      I’m a queer woman but have mostly been in het relationships (hooray heteronormativity). My last long-term partner wanted me to soothe his feelings and be emotionally supportive when he was telling me a problem instead of my usual “Ok, here’s how you get shit done” response. And I couldn’t do that for him because it just wasn’t me at all. And it was already adding onto the emotional labor I did for the relationship. Examples being: reminding him to take his daily medication, telling him not to drive so fast and dangerously, reading a book about how to be supportive of ADHD partners, looking for jobs for him and asking if he has applied to any of them at all, etc…And honestly it worn me down so much that I started not to give a shit about the relationship anymore. I got out of that relationship over a year ago and still now I’m hesitant to get into any primary partnerships because I don’t want to get into so much emotional labor that I ignore my own needs. So at the moment I have no clue how I would deal with excessive emotional labor in future relationships. Not sure if DTMFA is the right way to address it.

      1. Persephone Mulberry*

        I was with my ex for almost 20 years and I’ve been single for four, and while I’m very content in my singlehood, I also am self-aware enough to realize that A LOT of my reluctance toward dating is fear that I don’t know how to not be codependent in a relationship.

      2. Boof*

        “reminding him to take his daily medication, telling him not to drive so fast and dangerously […] looking for jobs for him and asking if he has applied to any of them at all” I think that’s well past emotional labor, that’s leading a horse to water and trying to force them to drink… relationships are supposed to be about mutual support and sure, maybe each side has their own strengths and weaknesses, but if one side is just a total dependent that’s just… a pretty different type of relationship than two romantically inclined adults usually engage in.

      3. allathian*

        That’s really interesting, mainly because the stereotype is that the female partner in a relationship just wants to vent to a sympathetic listener while the male partner wants to help to solve the problem and gets frustrated when the female partner doesn’t want to take the advice.

        To be fair, if I just want to vent, I’m more likely to call one of my friends and I’ll talk to my husband when I’m ready to listen to advice and to do something about whatever’s bothering me. To be fair, I have a hard time just listening to someone venting if I can’t offer advice. I may do it once, maybe twice for a really good friend who’s helped me out in the past, but after that I’m likely to tune out if they just want to vent and aren’t willing to change whatever it is that’s bothering them, assuming it’s something they could change, like getting out of a bad relationship if they’re unhappy.

    22. DieTrying*

      So, I’m curious: if the ring-thing happened next week, or the week thereafter, or on February 8th, would you be thrilled and relieved and would things be A-OK?

      I ask this as a woman married to a man who has many wonderful qualities but some serious “forgetting about the thing tendencies” that we’ve worked for years to, ahem, adjust, and that we’ve mostly resolved (mostly!) by some of the strategies that have already been mentioned: recognizing one another’s awesome qualities, figuring out who cares about the thing, acknowledging that some things will just never, ever happen for him (e.g., scooping the %$#@ litter boxes.)

      And for me, once the joke had become a not-joke — or, to be honest, once we’d moved some ways into the joke becoming well-worn — having the thing happen would no longer be enough. Depending on how long it had gone on, it might be entirely joyless, or it might come with a hefty dose of remembering all the worried and sadness and emotional labor I had done surrounding it. In similar (if not totally comparable) situations, I’ve had to be very honest with myself about my emotions and figure out how to get to a sense of reconciliation not just to the thing but the history that it had acquired, and to do so without totally moving the goal posts on my partner.

      YMMV, of course. But how you feel at your worst and ventiest is still real and worthy of respect and accounting. I’m sorry things are hard right now, in multiple ways.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Yep. There is a thing where we can wear down to the point of no return. So no matter how much things get fixed, it’s too late. The damage is done.

      2. Generic Name*

        I agree with this comment. When my husband and I moved in together, we agreed it would be a step towards marriage. We wanted to see how we lived together before making a commitment. I assumed that when living together was going well, he’d ask me to marry him within a couple of months. When that didn’t happen, I got upset and basically asked him when he was going to ask me. We had a couple of conversations along those lines and finally he asked me for some ring ideas. He ended up giving me an engagement ring for Christmas. He asked me to marry him many months after the imaginary timeline I had set for things in my own head, but I was overjoyed and enthusiastically said yes when he did. I wasn’t annoyed or upset that it happened later than I thought it should because he is his own person and has his own process for doing things.

        Honestly, I recognize myself in much of your original comment. I like things being done a certain way and at a certain time, but I’ve learned over the years that there is no One True Way of doing things, and it’s a recipe for disappointment and resentment if I expect my husband to do everything the way I would do it and exactly when I want it done. If you want your fiancé to do stuff without you managing it, you have to accept he will do it when and how he wants.

        1. allathian*

          I’m wondering why more women don’t just propose to their boyfriends instead of waiting for them to do so… We’d been living together for about a year and I was about five months pregnant. One day I just said that I’d like to be married before our child is born, he thought it was a good idea and said something about getting a marriage license.

          Probably a bit more pragmatic than most people would prefer, but then, I’m sure I’m the least romantic person I know. Getting married while I was 8 months pregnant also gave us the perfect excuse to avoid the big wedding neither one of us wanted, and we got absolutely zero pushback on this. Nobody wondered, at least not in my hearing, why we wanted an intimate wedding with immediate family members only and with my sister and SIL as witnesses.

          1. allathian*

            To be fair, we also didn’t announce our wedding to anyone except our immediate family until after the fact.

          2. Rusty Shackelford*

            Oh, man, this is me. The idea of waiting for the man to decide, and the proposal itself being some kind of event, just sets my teeth on edge.

    23. Clisby*

      I don’t quite understand what the household gifts are. In my immediate household, everybody’s responsible for making/buying and wrapping their own gifts. Like, it would never occur to me to make or buy a gift for any of my in-laws, or to wrap it. If my husband wants to send a gift to his family, he can – it has nothing to do with me. Same if I want to send a present to any of my family members – it’s not my husband’s job. (Fortunately, we’re both from families that really don’t give Christmas presents to adults, so this isn’t much of an issue.) I do normally buy a few more presents for our 2 children than he does, but we both wrap up what we buy. I don’t really see the advantage to a cooperative effort.

      I’m also not sure about this engagement ring thing. The engagement expires if you don’t have a ring by a certain date? I guess the ring is a proxy for something else?

      1. Artemesia*

        my husband and I have a partnership marriage and both do our share but I have always been in charge of household gifts — in the early days that included Christmas for 20 nieces and nephews. Now it is my brother and his brothers and sisters. I enjoy it and thus I do it. I do all the travel planning for the same reason. If I hated to choose and send gifts, I would have him do his family, but I enjoy it so I don’t.

        It would drive me nuts though to have someone who never followed through on the things they agreed to do. And an engagement ring that never materializes seems passive aggressive.

      2. Wheee!*

        For us, we have a bunch of “nieces and nephews” who aren’t related to us. They’re the kids of our good friends who are genuinely mutual friends. I always end up doing the shopping and shipping and a lot of the wrapping. This year, it’s been stressful and I asked him to deal with the Christmas stuff (I barely managed to get our nephews bday gifts in time). The buying of stuff didn’t really happen on time so I took care of a bunch of it, then we took a trip to the store for the rest, but on the other hand one of the gifts was a new bike for our nephew and he did a bunch of work to fix it up, and did almost all the wrapping (after I bugged him) and shipped stuff. It was a much better division of labor than we usually have.

    24. Artemesia*

      What has worked for us is that the person whose job it is has total responsibility. e.g. when he cooks, he plans the menu and does all the prep as do I when I shop. Until we retired, we each did our own laundry — now in a smaller condo I just do it because I like to and I also like to do massive loads in the laundry room rather than using the small apartment machine in our condo. But the key was having duties that we agreed to do and then had control of.

      With things like bills — he handles all that, but I open all the mail, so I have my eyes on the status of bills and such. Part of that is that in retirement it is important that both partners are on top of financial things. My father had sole charge and they almost lost their home because in early Alzheimers he quite paying taxes, mortgage and insurance and my mother was not aware of it — luckily she was able to get it fixed before they were in big trouble. With older couples, whoever pays bills, the other should open mail especially for bills and bank statements.

      Is there any way he can be in charge of things that affect him primarily?

      1. Not So NewReader*

        I just saw the bill thing play out in a friend’s life. The house got repo’ed for lack of payment. And after 50 something years of not writing checks, Friend no longer knew how and for many reasons cannot relearn how.

        I saw this with my MIL. Fifty five years of not writing checks and paying bills. Once she had to return to it, it now involved rivers of tears.

        I am definitely a hands on person. I can’t just read something and know immediately how all the moving parts work. We split the bills according to income- 60%/40%.
        I’d encourage anyone (not just women) to stay connected to what is going on with the finances. (Whatever “connected” feels like to you.) If things get tight and/or things go wrong it can take the efforts of both spouses to pull through the financial concerns.

    25. Bibliovore*

      Expectations are premeditated resentments.
      Thank you for posting and…
      Your partner is not going to change. You could have been describing my husband.
      I take that back, there may be changes but only if you work on yourself-
      It is only during the pandemic and me having a total meltdown did the dishwasher get emptied by his hands.
      I have been married for over 30 years.
      Have friends to share your annoyances with. Decide if you can be in a committed relationship with someone who will continue to annoy you in these ways.
      You said you didn’t want advice except the whole engagement ring thing is the elephant in the room. Why is it so important that they make a ring for you? or even have a ring?

    26. Bibliovore*

      Expectations are premeditated resentments.
      Thank you for posting and…
      Your partner is not going to change. You could have been describing my husband.
      I take that back, there may be changes but only if you work on yourself-
      It is only during the pandemic and me having a total meltdown did the dishwasher get emptied by his hands.
      I have been married for over 30 years.
      Have friends to share your annoyances with. Decide if you can be in a committed relationship with someone who will continue to annoy you in these ways.
      You said you didn’t want advice except the whole engagement ring thing is the elephant in the room. Why is it so important that they make a ring for you? or even have a ring?

    27. I'm A Little Teapot*

      You asked how I handled this. I dumped the guy. I am NOT willing to spend my life with a guy who doesn’t have his sh*t together and can’t be relied upon to do anything he doesn’t want to do. I don’t care how funny or cute a guy is if he’s an adult baby that I need to take care of. Grow up, and do it somewhere else. And yes, it applies to mental health and other struggles. I need to see effort to get treatment or put the routines in place to enable them to be a functional adult. I completely understand failure and messing up, everyone does. But not every single time, for all time.

    28. lazy intellectual*

      Ugh I’ve seen this dynamic in every one of my straight female friends’ relationships. I have ADHD and 100% sympathize with people who have executive functioning issues, but gender roles complicate things. Women with ADHD don’t get a pass on letting things slide, and men who don’t have ADHD are just accustomed to doing less. It’s really annoying.

    29. Analyst Editor*

      Hi! So I am not a huge fan of “emotional labor” as a concept, because it’s adversarial and also means that the emotionally laboring perosn sometimes fails to own their own contributions to the porblem at hand.

      You got a lot of responses, but I really like the takes in these two blog posts from a blog I like, and hope they help.
      https://www.drpsychmom.com/2019/12/29/emotional-labor-is-not-the-problem/
      https://www.drpsychmom.com/2020/11/14/emotional-labor-is-an-ineffective-way-to-say-take-care-of-me/

      1. Generic Name*

        Thanks for posting these articles! The whole blog is fascinating, but I especially lover her explorations of this topic.

        1. Elspeth McGillicuddy*

          A second thanks! This is an interesting perspective and I’m looking forward to reading more on her site.

      2. RagingADHD*

        This blogger is very insightful, especially about how using abstract, distancing terms is so much easier than being vulnerable — and so counterproductive.

    30. TechWorker*

      My partner is an adult who mostly cleans up after himself and does his share of the laundry, cleaning, etc.

      I take no responsibility whatsoever for him keeping in touch with his family or vice versa (despite his mother probably wanting more of a relationship with me than id want with her). She once phoned me when he was travelling and asked if I’d spoken with him that day, and then asked if I could just text her (every day) to let her know he was still ok. To which I told my other half he needed to text her every day to say he was still alive, and he did.

      There are some things that aren’t even – he gets up to feed the cats early most mornings (and then goes back to sleep, I couldn’t hack the interrupted sleep, if it was just me id have to shut them in one room more overnight). He also does the lions share of DIY (like, I help, but I’m not great at it and have limited enthusiasm to learn). I cook most of the time and do the food shopping. That’s ended up a bit gender stereotypical but I’m not losing any sleep over it.

      1. allathian*

        Our household is pretty gendered, at least in the sense that there are some chores that only he does. The chores that are exclusively his, like mowing the lawn (once every two or three weeks for about 7 months of the year) and changing to winter tires and back to summer tires, as well as the occasional household maintenance task like switching light sources and changing the batteries in our fire alarms, are done fairly infrequently. My husband does more of the financial planning, but both of us pay our share of the bills and we make major financial decisions together. I mostly do our laundry (about 4 loads a week) and fill and empty our dishwasher (almost daily now that we’re home all the time), although our son’s pretty good at helping out with these. He’s 11 and occasionally cleans his room without being asked (!). I think the fact that my husband’s very good about noticing that our house needs cleaning and then just doing it without any prompting from me is rubbing off on our son. There aren’t any chores in the house that our son thinks of as “women’s work”, because he sees his dad doing them all the time. My husband does most of the cooking, though, but that’s because he likes it and wants to do it. If he disliked cooking as much as I do, no doubt I’d do more of it…

    31. Anona*

      I really like the book “Fair play”, which is specifically about dividing up household responsibilities. There’s an accompanying card game, so you’re not just talking about a system but working together to divide it.
      But honestly this is still something I struggle with.

    32. KittyCardigans*

      Oh man, the “I was about to get to it” absolutely kills me. My husband is actually pretty decent with follow-through, but I’m with my family for the holidays now and have been running into this with family members. For instance, on Christmas Eve I was washing a mountain of dishes. Before I started, I asked my brother if he’d dry and put away. He said yes, so I got started. He then pulled up the Duolingo app on his phone and spent 15 minutes completing his lesson (standing three feet away from me!), while clean, wet dishes piled up. Eventually my dad came over and dried the dishes, but he doesn’t know where anything goes, so he just piled the dry dishes on the counter. Brother looks up from his phone and says “Oh, I was about to get to that, Dad.” I say, “Okay, well, can you put those away now?” Brother says yes, then checks the news instead, calling out at least three different headlines as he reads them. I finish washing and end up putting the dishes away because we need the counter space to finish prepping the Christmas meal. Brother, as I put the second-to-last dish away: “oh hey, I was about to do that!”

      He probably WOULD have done it, eventually. But sometimes things have a timetable, and disregarding the timetable disrespects my time and effort.

    33. RebelwithMouseyHair*

      Why are you setting deadlines for him? Why are you assigning jobs for him? This sounds more like a boss and underling than a partnership founded on love to me.
      You want an engagement ring, I reckon that’s a pretty normal thing to want if you’re engaged. If he’s not getting you an engagement ring, I reckon that means it’s not important to him. The joke is no longer funny because it’s pissing you off that he hasn’t bothered to find the time to make you a ring.
      Even if he does come through with this ring, he’ll never get round to replacing it once you’ve lost it.
      If he’s not making you a ring, I’m pretty sure it’s because he doesn’t particularly want to be engaged to you.
      I’ve noticed with some men, they avoid conflict of any kind, they won’t ever tell their partner they want out, because they can’t stand seeing the woman cry, they feel guilty about hurting them. They just carry on doing their own thing, hoping that the woman will get pissed off and leave. Sounds like your guy might just be that kind.

    34. Mola Ram*

      I humbly suggest that calling off the engagement would be doing him a favour.

      You do realise that carving wood rings is master-craftsperson territory, even more so than the crocheting you finished at the last minute?

      And “assigning him tasks”….boggle. Are you looking to be a spouse or a preschool teacher?

    35. Des*

      Just a thought but is it possible this is more of a “time” issue than a “do it or do not” issue? Allow me to explain. I live with someone who is chronically a last minute person, which drives me crazy. For me, when I want to get something done by Friday, I think about it ahead of time, and plan out the efficient way to do it, and usually get it done way ahead of Friday. The person I live with will do it at 5pm on a Friday, at the last moment, while stressing about it. HOWEVER, we both will get it done, and when repeatedly I bring up the “but why” questions, the other person just says that they don’t like to feel stressed about it ahead of time when they know they can get it done eventually. So what if it’s a bit later than Friday morning, they assure me.

      Anyway, I am just bringing this up in case the real situation here is that you want things done “properly” and “on time” and maybe even “ahead of schedule so you don’t have to think about it”, and you might be living with someone who actually *would* get the thing done if you left him to his own devices but is just going to be late with it.

    36. Quinalla*

      Regarding emotional labor in general, I don’t recommend this way, but it sure as hell worked. There have been two big incidents in our marriage so far where it was clear that I wouldn’t be able to do all the things I was doing cause patriarchy. One was finding out instead of a second child we were having twins. At that point we had a heart to heart where I said look, the older child was already going to be more your responsibility with one infant on the way, with two infants, the older child is ALL yours and you are going to have to pitch in a lot with the infants. Since he had to do it, he did it. Did he fail sometimes? Hell yes, but did I fail when I was learning this stuff – for sure, it just happened to me much younger because of different expectations for men & women. Everyone was safe, etc. and I had to let it go because my capacity was stretched to the max.

      The other time was when I fell and broke my hip when the twins were about 7 months old (same year twins were born, hooray for maxing out our deductible for once) and oldest was 4. I could do almost nothing except breastfeed babies brought to me, keep the twins entertained for a certain amount of time next to me while laying down, fold laundry brought to me, make food for myself after about 2 weeks and work from home on my PC, and use the bathroom. I got pretty good with my crutches and you can haul a lot of stuff around while on a rolly chair, but I was severely limited for about a year. So again, while parents came and helped for a bit, after that my husband had to do it all, so he figured it out.

      Did I take a lot back when I got better, sure, but I didn’t take it all and I also feel free to offload when I need to. We are able to have conversations about this stuff much more easily and rebalance life as things change. Do I have moments of resentment still, sure, and do a I fall into the trap of taking on too much without really thinking about it, absolutely, but we can talk about it and it is much easier to rebalance.

      You absolutely have to allow for failure, good to learn for future kids if you plan to have them as well and if you plan to manage people at a job. It is one of the best ways people learn and take responsibility. If you know your wife/parent/boss/etc. will always save you, you don’t take it as seriously.

      1. allathian*

        I’m lucky in that I’m in a country with long maternity and parental leave. More dads are also taking paternity leave and an increasing number are taking parental leave as well so they can delay putting their child in daycare without hurting the mom’s career through a long absence from work. The consensus seems to be that when the moms are at work they’re forced to let the dads deal with whatever issues while they’re at home with the kids, and it increases understanding for both roles. The moms are forced to trust the dads to deal with whatever happens to the best of their ability, and the dads become aware of how much effort it takes to get chores done with active kids at home. When both parents are back at work, chore distribution is usually more equitable than it would be if only the mom had stayed at home.

  5. Well...*

    Also, to be clear if I was in your shoes I’d probably leave. Being in love for me is having a teammate, and this kind of labor imbalance feels so far away from intimacy and trust that I would be miserable.

    And re: gendered stuff, I’m a woman married to a man. Were similarly both a bit scattered and forgetful, but when one of us realizes something needs to be done, we make a plan and we get it done together. Guys like this are out there, and I wish I hadn’t wasted time on the ones who think things magically get done in the background.

    2. Artemesia*

      I’m with you and in fact one of the reasons I left my first husband over 50 years ago is that by default everything was my job. I was working full time, getting a masters evenings and putting him through law school while he mostly played bridge in the commons and expected dinner when he got home. If he did anything, it was to ‘help me’ with my housework. Got old fast. I am married for nearly 50 years now to my second husband and none of this has ever been an issue. We were partners from the beginning and reworked our reponsibilities with each change in life circumstances e.g. whose job had long hours, kids arriving, being out of work, retiring etc — I have never felt like I was his maid or that housework was ‘my job’. But we worked it all out very explicitly with a schedule for cooking for example, when we first moved in together. It is natural now — but in the beginning we negotiated a plan and were very explicit about keeping some areas of the home presentable (I am the messy one), who would do which tasks etc.

    3. Batgirl*

      I agree with your second paragraph. Be with a capable guy who gets things done, who thinks ahead, and is thoughtful because they do exist, and while the other kind is more common you do get choices on who to be with. I tried everything when I was with the other kind; I tried to do more, I tried to do less, and nothing worked. It’s much better with a guy who takes charge of the problem before you’re even bothered by it, than one who sees no need.
      That said, I don’t think the OP above is in that situation where he can’t fully oversee his own plans and think of things to do on his own to benefit her, she’s in a situation where there are joint plans that don’t work out, probably because they aren’t suitable for both parties (which sets one or both up for failure) and communication is a little shy. If the crochet ended a little late, then isn’t it natural that they’ll be wrapped late or they’ve possibly clashed with his the timing of his own ideas and plans?Maybe the plan needs to be discussed and changed? And if she’s in a hurry for the ring (ironic that his craftwork is similarly running up to the eleventh hour!) she could bring it up in a non joke way that she’s over the handmade notion, if this is the reality of it, and needs a new plan. Perhaps he’s not as enthusiastic about making it as he expected and needs a new plan too. Joint plans needs flexibility and constant communication. While it’s not great if youre constantly reminding someone about each little thing, not speaking up about something you’re really, terminally unhappy with won’t work with anybody. Nobody is so good at emotional labour and so psychic that they don’t need honesty. I would only break up with him if he had no interest in communicating or acting upon plans, changed or not.

      1. Well...*

        I actually wasn’t saying their relationship was doomed, just that it’s not the kind I would be happy in. Lots of people (read:women throughout recent history and many now) have domestic labor imbalance and are very in love, despite the fact that it may not be totally fair or equitable. I’m not saying that’s not real love, it just would not work for me. I get so much romantic glow from being on a team that I would feel very lonely in such a marriage, even if my partner showed intimacy in other ways.

        Basically find someone you’re compatible with, and globally we’ll work together to make society more fair in the meantime.

    4. Mola Ram*

      They’d be doing each other a favour. She is obviously a planner whilst he is more spontaneous. This is not a good match.

  6. Moosemonster*

    Just before Christmas, I finally reached out to my GP about getting checked for ADHD! Had to write down my symptomps and send them over, and from the brief chat with the doctor I’m frankly already exhausted by the process, and this is, what, not even the first step proper. Anyone else in England done it in recent years?

    1. Princess Deviant*

      Oooo following this thread with interest. I waited a long time for my ASD dx; I think the assessment format for AD(H)D is similar (also in UK). I was recommended to get the ADHD assessment and to approach my GP about it, but to be honest I was so exhausted after the ASD one and Covid etc that I haven’t bothered. It’s something I’m thinking of for the new year though.

    2. Kali*

      I finally got a diagnosis in September, after suspecting ADHD for a few years, finally reaching out to my GP, being on a waiting list for 4 years, and then just going private. I’m annoyed I didn’t go private earlier because I was doing an undergraduate degree during the entire time I was on the waiting list (as a mature student, I’m 32). So not only would it have made my degree much easier, but I would have been entitled to a disabled student’s allowance which would easily have covered it the cost of private care. I get that for this year with my MSc, but a few thousand over the last 4 years would have been very welcome. :(

      The meds have side effects – insomnia, increased heart rate, dehydration – but it’s amazing being able to focus now. I can write and edit an essay while keeping in mind what I want to say, what’s written in previous paragraphs, and what I cover in upcoming paragraphs.

      It feels like… Well, you know those wheels you spin to win a prize? Like those, but the prize is my attention. And adhd is like someone’s spinning it every few minutes to every few seconds (except hyperfocus, when the wheel was just stuck). With medication, the wheel is heavier. I can move it and it THUNKS right into place. The other day, I needed to do some work but I needed to turn on my PC and fetch water first. I was able to remember those tasks were in preparation to work and not wander off and lose a few hours before starting.

      1. Seeking Second Childhood*

        “Then the wheel was just stuck”
        Perfect image thanks for that.
        I’m in another country so can’t comment on process, but meds? Just be prepared for changing it through your lifetime. My first scrip was working well until when I developed high blood pressure they cut my dose. That doesn’t work so well so at some point I need to go back to trial & error.

      2. Moosemonster*

        Yeah, I’m also worried that it will take forever, but I can’t really afford going private.

        My biggest – and most affecting – symptoms seem to be executive dysfunction and emotional dysregulation, which I’ve always chalked up to your ol’ regular depression, but this year has shown pretty dramatically that the depression is in check, and the other stuff is not. I know that I harbor this fantasy that a diagnosis, followed by medication, will instantly fix everything I feel is wrong with me, but I’ve been in therapy for long enough to recognise it, so…

    3. Nacho*

      I was thinking about doing it, but my job won’t give me any time off for doctors visits until February.

    4. Lobsterp0t*

      YEAH. Definitely go the “right to choose” route. The NHS process will take forever unless you do this, and it’s possible via right to choose to get treatment that is NHS funded but on private or nearly private time scales

    5. LadyGrey*

      Best advice is to find your local adult adhd support group and ask then for advice on support available in your area! Also, there are a lot of UK adult Adhd groups on Facebook who are happy to share experiences of different private diagnosis routes / Right to choose NHS routes!

    6. Emily*

      Good luck! I have no practical advice for you (I’m in the USA), but I can empathize as someone who is currently working up the courage to ask for an assessment.

  7. Ellyfant*

    If you were in charge of the nation’s educational curriculum, what non academic topics would you make compulsory? Excluding subjects conventionally covered in schools (eg sex or religious education).

    Mine would be:
    -recognising toxic relationships and how to get out of them
    -it’s totally okay and normal to have mental health issues / when and how to get help for mental health
    -how to listen to people
    -how to apologize when you’re wrong

    1. L*

      Interesting question!

      – How to do taxes
      – How to read your payment slips (is that the correct word? The paper that says how much money you’ve earned at your job)

      1. AvonLady Barksdale*

        Yup, mine would be all financial. How to open a bank account. How to write a check. How to invest. How the home buying process works. Bring back Home Economics!

        3. Clisby*

          When I was in high school, girls normally took home economics and boys took shop. (I didn’t take either). I’ve often thought it would be good to require everybody to take both. Boys need to know how to cook and girls need to know how to do some basic home repairs.

            1. Clisby*

              Fortunately, I had parents who made all their children pitch in with cooking, home repairs, yardwork, etc. When any of us got a driver’s license, they made sure we knew how to do things like check the oil and change a tire.

            2. MissDisplaced*

              My school had that! The boys had to do at least a half-year of Home Ec, (the budgeting and cooking part), but not the sewing parts. Girls took shop that was more like basic tool use/household safety, and checking/maintaining your car. So everyone had a little of both, at least for one year.

          2. Seal*

            My junior high required everyone to take shop and home ec back in the 70s. I still have the plastic dish and metal planter I (a woman) made in 8th grade shop class. The spot welder scared me because it gave off sparks, but that didn’t stop me from finishing my planter. As I recall, we also had to reassemble a lawn mower engine and make a wooden box. Since I already knew how to sew and cook, I never really got much out of the home ec classes, although I did make a backpack and a T-shirt. Good times.

          3. Black Horse Dancing*

            Huh. My junior high had that in the 79s. Everyone took shop, home ec, etc. Weird that hasn’t spread.

            1. Seeking Second Childhood*

              In many places shop & home ec hsve been cut from budgets just like arts & music classes.

            2. Old and Don’t Care*

              We did too, in the early 80’s. Cooking, sewing, wood shop, metal shop. I regard it all as worthless. I can’t hem a skirt to save my life, and am happy to pay the dry cleaner a dollar to sew on a button. I can cook, but not because I took six weeks of cooking in the eighth grade. The only thing I remember about wood shop is that we could play the radio and there was general excitement when “Centerfold” came on. I would ruthlessly cut all these from the curriculum.

        4. Clisby*

          I don’t disagree, but not too long ago I was talking about stuff like this with my 24-year-old daughter, and she said, “You know … I’ve never needed to write a check.” She’s a self-supporting graduate student who knows how to handle money – but she has never written a check. Even I might write a check a dozen times a year. Check-writing is probably headed for the dust heap of history.

          2. General von Klinkerhoffen*

            I don’t think it’s cheques/checks precisely, but more generally understanding income v outgoings, and budgeting.

            Balancing a checkbook is a formal and systematic process of keeping track of your obligations and resources, so the discipline of sitting down weekly was a helpful process for many people. Schools should absolutely be supporting young people to find the method that works for them whether it’s pen and paper or an app or external support.

            Discussion of the consequences of failing to manage money is important too.

          3. allathian*

            Yeah, I hear you.

            That said, learning to manage your finances is the kind of basic life skill that definitely should be taught at school.

      2. Washi*

        Also what the heck all the different types of health insurance are! Maybe both in high school and in college. i remember spending like 3 hours on google looking up all the acronyms when I got my first full time job.

        1. Richard Hershberger*

          If we are going down the insurance route, auto insurance as well. There are multiple coverages, typically with only a minimum liability coverage mandated by law. Many people don’t understand the subject enough to make informed decisions about what to purchase. To confuse the matter even more, auto insurance varies wildly from state to state.

        2. Seeking Second Childhood*

          For the US, all those optonal nicknamed savings plans — FSA, HSA, 401k, 403b, TSP, IRA, Roth IRA. Including the ones in specific states like Connecticut’s CHET for higher ed only. I’ve seen people lose significant money because they don’t understand the limitations. And I’ve scrambled at the end of a year when HSA changed over to FSA.
          Also wills, living wills, health directives, and organ donation cards.

        3. Chaordic One*

          You are so right about the health insurance. My employer has a narrow window of time during which you can change your health plan or enroll in new health plans. I found the process so intimidating that I ended up taking a “stress day” to go over all the plans and decide what to enroll in. It took me 4 hours to review the health, dental and vision plans. (I didn’t bother with the medical savings accounts which seem like an extra hassle to me.)

          Not to get into politics, but it would be so much easier for everyone if we had a national health insurance plan for everyone. My doctor says that he could get rid of one of his billing clerks if he only had to deal with a single standardized health plan and not the wildly different coverages and payment rates that different insurance companies will cover.

          Then there is the similar rabbit hole of trying to pick where to put your money in your Employer’s 401K plan. Argh!

      3. D3*

        I disagree, actually. Especially about the taxes. Not because I think those things are unimportant, but because I DID learn them in high school. And by the time I was out of college and a fully functioning adult, IT WAS ALL OUTDATED. Tax forms and laws were all different. It was a complete waste.

        1. Liz*

          This is a good point, but the same could be said for a lot of these suggestions. We had a really intensive (if misguided) series of lessons on CV writing and job applications. By the time I was looking for jobs in earnest, it was all online application forms and the CV was nothing but an elaborate note document that I could copy and paste from. But some basic element of instruction might still be useful, and will still hold true years later. Plus, large portions of the population go straight into full time work after leaving school and may be using many of these skills right away.

        2. Seeking Second Childhood*

          It wasn’t a waste if you came out of it understanding concepts of estimated taxes, capital gains tax, withholding, filing dates, different forms & schedules, terms like adjusted gross income, and the idea that cities & states also (may) have additional forms. Those things aren’t taught in all homes.

        3. allathian*

          The idea is to learn the basic principles of how taxation works, with the understanding that the details can and will change in the course of a lifetime.

          Government is also important. Not so much about specific policies, but rather how the democratic process works in your country (assuming you live in a democracy, that is), and for advanced classes, something about how it works elsewhere. I took an elective in political science in high school, and I was utterly fascinated by how different electoral systems work. I’m in a country with proportional representation, and it’s very different from a country like the UK where it’s first past the post, etc.

      4. Girasol*

        My eighth grade history teacher gave us each a sample W2 slip and a 1040 EZ form and we spent a whole hour in class filing our taxes. I think of him every year. Thanks Mr. Karnatz! He also gave us Social Security registrations (back in the day when parents didn’t enroll their babes) and I am very grateful for that too.

    2. Pharmgirl*

      Cpr certification – even if they don’t pursue recertification, the initial knowledge may help a lot of people who might otherwise freeze in that situation.

      1. Kate*

        My daughter’s elementary school actually does teach this! They do it at the beginning of every class, to calm the kids down and get them ready to learn.

        I love it because it’s so much easier to reinforce at home once it’s been introduced at school.

        2. Artemesia*

          I lived in a part of the country where school districts were attacked for trying to inculcate religion when they tried to do relaxation /meditation to calm kids down before they went to work. Yoga, meditation etc are considered by some to be religious indoctrination. Sadly as these techniques are so helpful .

          1. nep*

            Indeed. That reinforces the need for widespread education (formal and informal) about what can be one of the most beneficial things a human can do–beneficial for the person, the community, the planet.

    4. Kali*

      What to do when you don’t know what to do. How do you figure out who to call, where to go for help, etc? I’m thinking of scenarios like getting locked out, or needing to find out what financial help the government can offer you, or figuring out how to access education as an adult, and so on. Things where you can’t give specific information because it varies, so the skill is figuring out how to find what you need to know. I guess these are things people would ask their parents about, but that wasn’t an option for me. But, you know, maybe kids without parents to ask are such a minority that the time would be better spent elsewhere.

      This is an academic subject, but I’d also want stronger emphasis on the scientific method. Even with a STEM degree, it feels like the principles of the scientific method itself are taught implicitly as an aside, rather than being explicitly discussed. I think that helps contribute to harmful myths about how science works. Like some people seem to think it’s a religion, or it’s about memorising facts. Some seem to picture it as being about some kind of Sherlock Holmes-style genius who is right because they’re smart and best at arguing (which is not helped by the ‘great men’ myths). I get that impression from the way people argue about masks and vaccinations, and from things like seeing one person say Newton’s laws of motion were “according to Newton!”. I don’t see how people would say the sort of things they saw if that isn’t what they’re picturing as happening behind the scenes.

      Even if you taught no other science – no experiments, no findings, no specific facts – a thorough grounding in how we test things and weigh evidence, and how to know if something is empirically true or not, or even if we can know, would, I think, go a long way. Although, realistically, you’d still want to use examples, but the examples would be the aside rather than the point. I mean, if you can’t weigh the evidence yourself, then the question comes down to “who do I trust to have my best interests at heart/to be honest?”. And there have been times, not all that long ago, when the medical industry wasn’t that. So I think people should be equipped with the tools to effectively judge who is more likely to be right about medical or scientific matters, or at least know what that means, rather than being left with the impression that it’s about personality.

      I was thinking of the Victorians and cholera, but I guess people also remember thalidomide, and if you aren’t able to judge the changes in how medicines are tested, then, again, it comes down to trust. Even though I could, theoretically, go and read all the papers and see what’s changed, and look at their methods and results and conclusions and check that they’re justified and I agree…I haven’t done that and I probably won’t. I’m taking it on trust, and I suspect I feel able to do that because I know I *could* go and check, and I trust scientists in general to have the same (and better) training than me, and to have the same intention of finding empirical truths and to test thoroughly against the possibility of being wrong. They remember thalidomide too, after all, they’re not blase.

      1. David*

        Great point about the scientific method. That’s probably the #1 thing that bugs me about science education as well, that it’s so often conveyed as a body of knowledge instead of a process.

      2. RagingADHD*

        I think all your topics are related in the idea of learning how to solve problems by thinking logically and critically.

        Ideally, that’s what all schools should be teaching already-certainly my kids’ schools always list critical thinking as part of the curriculum. But many people don’t seem to learn it, for one reason or another. It’s pretty abstract.

    5. Washi*

      Once you’re in high school, I think there should at least be a PE option covering good form for the types of exercise most adults actually engage in. How to run, how to lift weights, yoga, etc, and all in a body-positive and not weight loss focused way. My high school PE was mainly scurry hockey, handball, and basketball, which are things I don’t really use as an adult!

      2. ThatGirl*

        I wish we’d done more individual sports and exercise in gym, I might have gotten into the habit sooner. I hated basketball, volleyball, dodgeball, softball etc because I’m uncoordinated, not athletic and nobody wanted me on their team. Things like ping pong, bowling, golf etc at least I could fail on my own terms. And weights, yoga etc would have been great.

      3. Liz*

        +1 on this! I am a fairly active adult, but I hated PE at school. I’m not competitive, and if I am it’s usually in a destructive, counter productive kind of way. Competitive sport just made me feel insecure, inadequate, and useless. I spent hours loitering at the side of the netball court, freezing cold and hoping nobody would throw the ball my way. For years I characterised myself as a couch potato, and now I’m a distance runner and gym bunny, because I found something I actually like!

        School PE should teach kids how to listen to their bodies, be kind to themselves, work out appropriately for their skill level, and above all equip them to find a form of exercise that they enjoy so they do not come to dread it. If that involves a brisk walk around the school field while holding a conversation with their friends, then so be it, because this is an activity that has kept many people sane this year.

        1. Red Wheelbarrow*

          Yes! I remember learning in a college fitness class that stretches aren’t supposed to hurt. And that we can monitor our heart rate to stay in a challenging but not risky range, instead of gasping and wheezing trying to keep up with the more fit students. That knowledge would have changed my high school gym class experience, and my attitude toward exercise, quite a bit.

          1. Roja*

            Yes! Teaching my students the difference between “good hurt” (mild soreness, that nice stretch feeling) and “bad hurt” (sharp or lingering pain, etc) is very difficult to teach but 100% necessary. I teach dance so it’s crucial they learn how to safely push themselves, but to nip pain in the bud before they get injured, and know when “a lot” becomes “too much.”

      4. allathian*

        Yes, this. For some reason, team sports were really emphasized at my school, and I hated all of them. Pretty much the only exception, for girls at any rate, was gymnastics, and I was worse than useless at that. I could barely manage a somersault, cartwheels were completely beyond me. Oh, and swimming, one of the few PE lessons I actually enjoyed, because I was a decent, if slow, swimmer, and just got on with it. At least now at my son’s school, the teacher always assigns the teams and tries to ensure that each team has a pretty even distribution of skilled and less skilled players. I hated the way my high school PE teacher used to select two captains who then picked their teams, because I was so useless and always either the last or second last to be selected to a team. That certainly didn’t make me enjoy PE, and I spent years getting over my dislike of exercise.

    6. Thankful for AAM*

      There are a few libraries across the country that offered 6 week adulting classes. The topics they chose were really good. Cooking, budgeting/finance, car repair (like basics and how to not get ripped off), apartment hunting and basic home buying, sewing and cleaning, tome management, and more. Rudely has an adulting class too.

      1. nep*

        Car repair’s great. I would love to get training in that right now. Fascinates me.
        I love everything about these except for the word ‘adulting.’

      2. ShinyPenny*

        Tome management– Yes! I could really have used that.

        There must be a better system than cardboard boxes stacked almost to the ceiling. Although the boxes of books from, like, sixth grade will be an interesting time capsule if I ever get that far down the stacks :)

      3. RagingADHD*

        The county extension offices around here offer these kinds of classes from time to time. They don’t get much publicity, though – no advertising budget.

    7. Damn it, Hardison!*

      How to decide if to go to college or what are the alternative options. How to choose a college/career
      Student loans and paying them back

    8. Blarg*

      – healthy family relationships — not just dating. I had NO clue that what went on in my home wasn’t ‘normal’ or ok until I got to college.
      – How to assess and interpret news and social media, identify bias, identify commercial interests. How to seek out additional sources.
      – how to do laundry (in home or at laundromat), how to do the dishes, how your oven and stove work
      – how to patch a hole in the wall or in your jeans, find a stud and hang shelves, how to paint, change out a light fixture, unclog a toilet, replace a button, shine shoes, tie a tie
      – growing things — how to keep a plant alive that can feed you indoors or out, in whatever climate you’re in

      1. Tired of Covid-and People*

        I taught my kid how to do laundry, dishes, etc. That’s a parental thing, in my opinion, because basic household chores need to be done regularly by everybody, are not difficult, and children can start learning early. Would have been a waste of school time.

        1. Clisby*

          I tend to agree. Teach a kid how to do laundry? That should take about 20 minutes. Teach a kid to do dishes? Maybe an hour? (depends on whether you have a dishwasher). Now, making sure they do it regularly is something else – but those are not “skills.” They’re on a par with using a broom to sweep the floor, and using a sponge to clean a countertop.

        2. Seeking Second Childhood*

          On behalf of friends with disfunctional or nonexistent homes (one friend went through at least a dozen foster homes), I’d like to point out that many families do NOT teach the obvious. It’s the same reason sex ed is crucial.

        3. GrumpyGnome*

          Respectfully, this would not be a waste of school time for those that do not get taught these things at home. Many of the suggestions on this thread are things that could be taught at home but that doesn’t always happen.

          My mom had some issues relating to what I think might have been OCD – I wasn’t allowed to wash dishes (not even putting them in the dishwasher), cook, wash and fold laundry, vacuum, sweep, clean anything, or many other of such ‘basic’ things. My dad taught me how to change a tire, check fluids in the car and change oil, but I never learned these household things and I know plenty of people that grew up in other dysfunctional situations that also would have benefited.

      2. TechWorker*

        Your second bullet is one of the main focuses of English language (which is a separate exam to ‘English literature’) in the U.K. (As I remember when I took it about a decade ago :p)

    9. Not So NewReader*

      how to write a budget
      mortgages: NO, you do not take the price of the house and divide by 30 years to get your loan payment per year.
      REAL career planning advice
      REAL resume writing advice
      how to buy a car, car insurance, without getting ripped off
      how work places work: Yes, you have to do what the boss tells you; no, you do not have to put up with abuse
      how to pick out an apartment, understand a lease, know what a good landlord does
      learn about grief- the stages of grief, the symptoms of grief and all the different ways grief expresses itself

      Great question, btw.

      1. Girasol*

        Just the things I was thinking. Also I wish I’d been taught about how compound interest works, so I understood from the start why your first huge mortgage payment pays off such a minuscule amount of the value of the house, and how credit cards really work, and why, when you’re young and starting out and have barely a dollar to save, it’s worth saving it because the power of time could increase it so much. Some schools teach this but mine didn’t.

        1. LPUK*

          I was taught in school about how compound interest and mortgages payments worked and was so horrified I decided never to have a mortgage. Until I became an adult and realised how much renting cost! Still it did enable me to have the confidence to turn down the endowment option brokers kept pushing on me in favour of a repayment mortgage that explicitly allowed me to overpay and have that come off the principal, so it was very useful.

    10. anon24*

      So many great answers, so I’ll just add rather than repeat – how to access healthcare and what is appropriate for different symptoms. When should you call a doctor versus urgent care versus drive/taxi to the emergency room versus call an ambulance and what a true medical emergency is. It astonishes me how many people genuinely do not understand this and call for an ambulance because they’ve had an upset stomach for 3 weeks or went out drinking last night and woke up this morning with a hangover.

    11. MMB*

      I work with college students and definitely agree with other posters on the “basic adulting” classes. Including basic home maintenance – changing a light bulb, unclogging a toilet or drain, how to shut-off the water, light a furnace, complete a W-2…….

        1. Liz*

          I knew a young woman who owned her own apartment and called an electrician to change a bulb. She tried to do it herself but elected to grasp it with pliers because she was “scared to touch it”. The electrician had to remove the metal base piece from the socket and gave her a tutorial on how to change them.

        2. Morningstar*

          I’ve learned that city people don’t change their own lightbulbs. They actually call building maintenance to do this.

          1. Washi*

            I can’t entirely tell if this is a dig at city people? When we’ve called building maintenance to change a lightbulb (only once, I think) it’s because it’s a light fixture belonging to the apartment/complex and not to us. No need to pay to replace a bulb that the building will change for free!

            1. Morningstar*

              Oh no, not meant as a dig. Just putting out there a possible explanation for why someone might reasonably not know how to do this.

              1. udon the day away*

                I assume by ‘city people’ (it does sound one step away from ‘citiots’) you mean people who live in some sort of building complex? In my experience residents were sometimes required to call maintenance to replace bulbs in certain fixtures, but definitely not always.

                1. Morningstar*

                  I mean people who live in cities. In my experience just as you are speaking in your experience. I can’t imagine why you’re offended. IMO, the assumption that everyone knows how to change a lightbulb by the time they’re in high school is flawed. What is there for you to be offended about here? I’m saying it’s not stupid or even amazing that someone wouldn’t know how to do something.

                2. Morningstar*

                  Gotta add I’ve never heard the term “citiots” before & could have gone my whole life without it & been happier for it.

            2. Annie on a Mouse*

              I ask maintenance to change my light bulbs, not because I’m lazy or incompetent, but because I don’t have a ladder high enough to reach my ceiling!

              1. allathian*

                I’m afraid of heights, and yes, a kitchen ladder counts. So I’ll happily change a lightbulb (really a led light) in my reading lamp, but I’ll leave the ceiling fixtures to my husband. Added to that most of our ceiling lights are the flat kind with a glass bowl that you need to take off before you can access the lightbulb itself, and that’s more than I can handle. I’m so clumsy I’d probably drop the glass on the floor while trying to change the light.

          2. pancakes*

            Where did you learn this? I’m sure my super would laugh at me if I tried to summon him to my apartment to change a bulb. I would of course let him know if one of the common area lights was out, though. Tenants don’t maintain those.

            1. Morningstar*

              What’s your point? Is OP completely crazy for suggesting high school students should be taught “basic home maintenance like changing lightbulbs” or is it possible it could be useful to someone?

              1. pancakes*

                I was asking where you learned that city people supposedly don’t change lightbulbs. It seems like a pretty straightforward question. I didn’t comment at all on the OP’s question more broadly, but I think it’s an interesting one.

                1. Morningstar*

                  Oh, well I’ll tell you more about it. I had the personal experience of moving to a big city apartment & roomies had never changed their own lightbulbs. The interior ceiling bulbs. I tried to run to the store for some & they’re barely stocked here. I suppose it’s a cultural difference of living in “luxury” high rises. It might not be commonplace but my roomies (born & raised in the area) thought I was the one who was weird for being like “I’m just gonna change it” vs putting in a work request & giving someone access to our place & living in the dark until someone got around to it. Have had this service provided in subsequent residences also. Maybe it’s a regional quirk. And probably many of these people will never need to know how to a change a lightbulb for better or worse.

                2. Miss Pantalones En Fuego*

                  Depends on the place. I lived in a studio in a converted building in London for a while that had really high ceilings and there was no way I could have safely reached them by the usual method of standing on a chair. I wasn’t going to buy and store an appropriately tall ladder for this occasional job, so when the bulb went I got maintenance to change it for me.

            2. Clisby*

              My daughter’s had to do that. Her apartment has 15-foot ceilings. She knows how to change light bulbs, but has no way to get up that high.

    12. Asenath*

      I suspect I’d recommend nothing. Stick to solid academics, and students can use that information then and later to figure out the answers to everything else when needed. The curriculum is already crammed, and putting in more information, particularly information students may not need or use at the time, means they gave less time to spend on core skills and also will not remember information on, say, taxes because it seems irrelevant when they learn it and will be outdated later.

        1. Why are you horrified*

          Which ones horrify you and why? Most of the ones I’ve seen I would have like to learn (thinking of cooking/house maintenance/taxes, etc).

          1. Asenath*

            I can’t speak of Old and Don’t Care, but of those, I learned to cook at home – and most of my classmates, like me, later didn’t cook much at all, or took up very different styles of cooking as adults. I grew up in a rented house, and any maintenance skills and all knowledge of how to file taxes I learned as I needed to, as an adult. The fact of taxes and the reasons for them was probably mentioned in school and was certainly mentioned in government ads. So I can’t see needing to learn those skills in school. Just because something is or will be useful doesn’t mean it should be taught in school.

          2. Old and Don’t Care*

            Well, I agree with Asenath above and below, and Raging ADHD below. Life skills are important but that doesn’t mean schools need to teach them. I think the libraries and extension programs make a lot of sense, and have the advantage of giving people information when they are ready for and interested in it. Ideally students should learn research and critical thinking skills so they can learn for themselves what is relevant to them.

            I don’t think it would ever be the place of a school to determine what is a toxic relationship and how to avoid one, though that might be an interesting idea to explore in a literature class. I don’t think it’s a school’s job to decide what is a medical emergency and when to call an ambulance.

            Most of the non-academic subjects floated here strike me as inefficient, impractical or inappropriate to be taught in schools.

    13. TexasRose*

      > Basic first aid
      > Basic fire safety
      > Basic weather safety
      > Hurricane preparedness (we live in storm country)
      > Identification of dangerous wildlife (and identification of when to treat wildlife as dangerous, that is, how a rabid wild animal acts)
      > How to deal with someone else’s service animals
      > Etiquette for helping / interacting with someone who is blind or in a wheelchair
      > Basic info about invisible disabilities or variable? disabilities (when I had active CFS, some days were better than others, so sometimes I needed to use a cane, which caused consternation among co-workers)
      > Basic cleaning-chemical safety (don’t mix bleach with ANYTHING but water, unless you read the label)
      > Goal setting and time management
      > Negotiation techniques
      > Anti-bullying techniques
      > How to read a rental agreement or cell phone contract
      > How to make decisions with others (as a culmination of the previous few items)

    14. Mx*

      All of your list Ellyfant. That’s so essential !
      I would add Civic Education. That was done in my country until the 60’s or 70’s, but then they dropped it.
      I would include understanding and respect of the atheists in religious studies ( I don’t know if it is done as we don’t have religious studies in my country.)

    15. Pippa K*

      Great suggestions above, and I’d add very basic legal education. Concepts and terms like liability, consent, self-defence, as well as elements of the legal system most relevant to people in ordinary life: jury service (in systems with juries), family law, contracts, employment, and some criminal justice issues (police power, detention, sentencing, etc.)

    16. Ask a Manager* Post author

      I was just talking to my mom and my nieces last night about how schools should teach people their legal rights when dealing with the police — things like you don’t have to consent to a police search of your car/home/person (without a warrant), you don’t have to stay and answer police questions, what to do if you’re arrested, etc. I can guess why this is rarely taught, but it should be.

      1. Clisby*

        Those are all good.

        When my 2 kids were minors, we drilled it into them: “Never talk to the police without one of us present.”
        Now they’re 18 and 24, so we’ve updated the advice to “Never talk to the police without a lawyer present.”

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          Can I add on to that? I also think it’s important to tell them exactly how to say it. I was talking to my nieces about this last night — it doesn’t need to be confrontational or a huge deal. Like if a cop stops you and you don’t want to consent to a search, you don’t have to stiffly say, “No, I do not consent.” You can! But you can also say in a pleasant tone, “No, I’m sorry, I’m in a hurry, I can’t consent to a search, I need to be on my way.” A lot of people are much more comfortable saying the second one than they are the first … and when people are more comfortable with the language, they’re more likely to actually use it. Not to mention, it can keep things from becoming adversarial when they don’t need to be. (Although also teach them what to do if that doesn’t work.)

          1. Clisby*

            Agreed. And we didn’t tell our children to be hostile to police if they said they had to have one of us present. We told them to say something like, “I’ll be in big trouble with my parents if I answer questions without one of them here. “

            1. Ask a Manager* Post author

              That’s perfect. Reminds me of how I’ve suggested to people (maybe not here) that they can say things like “It’s been drilled into me to always do X” if they feel awkward about, for example, taking a couple of days to think over an offer or not signing without reading the full 29 pages or whatever. (Not that anyone should feel awkward about those things, but sometimes they do and “borrowing authority” — their parents’ or whoever — helps.)

      2. Artemesia*

        LOL IN parts of the country obsessed with people saying ‘sir’ to adults, you’d get fired teaching that. I used to teach the first amendment very aggressively as well as ways to influence government policy in the PNW to high school seniors and we got considerable hassles from the local John Birch infused community. My principal had my back — but that is less true in many areas and for all I know less true today than it was then where I taught.

      3. matcha123*

        This was actually something a number of my high school teachers impressed on us. I forgot until reading this comment. I graduated high school in 2001, for reference.
        I forgot a lot because some things were focused on car searches and I didn’t have a car, but some schools/teachers do teach this!

    18. Roja*

      How to work hard and persevere, even when it takes a while to see results. How not to skip ahead in the process and thereby short circuit your own learning. How to hold your work/learning/whatever to a high standard, but also give yourself grace when you mess up.

      All things I strive to teach in my classroom, but those are hard lessons for adults sometimes, let alone kids.

    19. Secret Squirrel*

      – Handling your emotions/emotional intelligence
      – Growing your own fruits & vegetables
      – How to socialize (for those of us who didn’t know how to talk to other kids)
      – Taking care of pets
      – Vaccinations for adults/info on being responsible for your own health care (if you can afford it)
      – Critical thinking/logical fallacies/cognitive biases
      – Importance of getting information from the most credible and least biased news sources

    20. RagingADHD*

      Serious question – all the folks who think high schools should teach how to choose health insurance, file taxes, choose an apartment, etc:

      Like, do you think everyone else knew these things at age 18 and you missed out? No. You aren’t supposed to graduate high school with all the knowledge you’ll ever need for the rest of your life, and then stop acquiring life skills!

      I had nice, loving, responsible parents. They never “taught” me to do dishes, file taxes, or change a tire.

      They instilled in me that I’m a reasonably intelligent and capable person, and that if I can’t figure something out by myself, there are either a) instructions, b) books about it, c) people I can ask about it, or d) people I can hire to do it for me. And that was before the Internet and YouTube.

      And you know what? Thank god they didn’t waste instructional time in school on insurance plans or taxes – because none of that information would have been valid a few years later.

      I certainly hope that teachers can instill a sense of self-efficacy in their students, especially those who are neglected or mentally beaten down at home. But that’s really not something you can put in a curriculum.

      As the old folks say, it’s “caught, not taught.”

      2. General von Klinkerhoffen*

        So what we want schools to do is teach children to be inquisitive and resilient. That seems to me to be baked into the general ethos of a school or teaching method rather than a separate part of the curriculum.

        Even teaching children how to Google (that is, about choosing search terms and how SEO affects the results you see and whether to trust the links you click) is useful. That can be part of History or Geography or Science or anything.

        I agree that for example “how to fill in this specific edition of this particular form” isn’t useful, but a more general “how (and why) to fill out and submit official forms” session would be useful.

      3. Washi*

        But isn’t that true of almost everything you learn once you get to high school? I took a class on Greek myths, but I could have read them all myself. My “genetics” class included a substantial amount of time reading AND watching Jurrasic Park. Definitely could have managed that on my own.

        The definition of school and what is considered important to learn has always changed and evolved. For a long time girls DID learn life skills like housekeeping and various handcrafts in school. Colleges were once very focused on the classics. You’re right that there’s not enough time to learn everything under the sun, so how and what do we choose? How does that reflect the priorities in our culture? I think these are all legitimate questions!

        And to answer your question, yes I still wish that maybe in my Civics class, we had covered taxes and health insurance. Specific forms change, but I was never going to remember specific forms anyway. But having a grounding in those areas would have helped me evaluate reliable sources when I was scouring the internet for information later. And stuff like “what is an HMO?” doesn’t really change as quickly. Plus it could have tied in very nicely to discussions of policies and how they affect us in real life!

        1. Batgirl*

          Its considered outdated in schools nowadays to teach knowledge as an end result rather than skills. So for example, a school is rather more judged on whether the students CAN read (infer, extrapolate, analyse, evaluate, criticise and so on) than if they can simply recite the material. This is so they can read and research whatever they want for themselves later on. Reading is interspersed with writing for an array of purposes so that students can write for any purpose. The reason that we practice these skills on things like literature or other academic topics is because those are the very things they won’t come across or read up on in the course of everyday life (we have no idea what the future looks like anyway) and the body of knowledge is being preserved. Or presented to those who might pursue the knowledge further.
          Additionally it is exasperating as a teacher to constantly get things piled on to “what children should learn at school” as though it’s not possible for them to learn anywhere else. I teach children who are behind in their reading, so they have to miss a bit of Spanish or history for this more immediately vital skill, because the school day is finite and many children hate being confined in a classroom for as long as they are.
          Children also need out of school relationships and experiences.

    22. RebelwithMouseyHair*

      Adulting in general. Paying bills and taxes, budgeting, taking out mortgages and loans. Cooking and cleaning, light DIY.
      Not just sex ed but love and respect, as from age 5 like in the Netherlands.

    23. MissDisplaced*

      If it is now a non-academic subject, I would say household/personal budgeting, bookkeeping and taxes and what used to be called “home economics.”
      When I was in school, this was a core subject in about 8th or 9th grade (ages 15-16), but it seems to have fallen away now? My nephew graduated high school 4 years ago and had no idea how to write checks, balance his checkbook and pay his bills, or cook anything for himself.

      I would also put in there, that young people should at least know how to go shopping for, and learn the basics of, cooking their own food (important for both budget and health).

      1. RagingADHD*

        I’m with you there. At least the definition of what ethics are. From the number of questions that come up here about “is this ethical?” it would appear that there are quite a lot of people who aren’t really sure what the word means.

    25. Dumpster Fire*

      With all due respect to everyone’s input (and as a long-time high school teacher), mine would be how to teach YOUR OWN kids many of the things that have been listed here. The vast majority of these items should be either taught by parents, or come as a result of life experience. A big part of growing up is figuring out how to do things you don’t know how to do; and a big obstruction for many young adults is the need for a detailed list of steps explaining how to do something – which is exactly why they DON’T know how to figure things out. The biggest idea that I try to impress upon my students (generally juniors and seniors) – other than my specific content area – is that if they don’t know what to do, they should ask questions and do something, anything. Let yourself make mistakes and learn from them. Once you’ve figured a few things out on your own, you develop a sense of confidence and self-sufficiency that no instruction book can ever provide.

    26. LPUK*

      Basics of planning , project management, time planning – what will you need to have, know and find out to do a task. Who/ what could help you, how long might that take? What problems could delay you or make it more difficult? How could you resolves those. Took me far to long to realise that thinking through things instead of leaping into action immediately saves time money and stress. Currently trying to teach this to my nephew

  8. Richard Hershberger*

    An “amateur archaeologist” announced that he had discovered the location of the Holy Grail, in West London. The Jerusalem Post treated the story with the seriousness it deserves by noting that “Finding the Holy Grail is the Holy Grail of Archaeological finds.” Insert the obligatory Monty Python jokes.

    3. Texan In Exile*

      I loved that line in The Detectorists.

      “Saxon hoard is the holy grail of treasure-hunting,” says Lance.

      “Well actually, the Holy Grail is the holy grail of treasure-hunting,” replies Andy.

  9. Dwight Schrute*

    Curly hair thread! What are your favorite products and techniques to avoid a frizzy mess, especially after sleeping. Relevant info: I shower at night, and have 2c-3a curly hair about collar bone length. My hair can look nice before bed and then in the morning is frizzy and has lost definition.

    1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      I sleep with mine in a bun, though that’s less helpful for short-hairs (and I keep it in a bun like 23.5 hours a day anyway). You might try a sleeping cap though, or otherwise wrapping it?

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      You might have to attack in the morning. I started using a leave-in conditioner plus Aveda Be Curly, and my hair is so much smoother and the curls are better defined. It even works when I need a midday spruce-up after pulling my hair back. My curls are also 2c/3a.

    3. Keymaster of Gozer*

      Bit of a bugger to sleep on at first, but I changed my pillowcases to ones of satin like/silk like fabric – basically extremely low friction. I look far less like I’ve stuck my finger into a 240v mains socket when I wake up now.

      Other than that I use a ton of Frizz-Ease (the strong serum, not the regular one) and black almond oil (obviously do not use if allergic to nuts)

      2. Roy G. Biv*

        Yes – silky/satin pillowcases! My 2B-2C hair is now graying and the cotton pillow case had begun sucking all life and moisture out of my hair overnight. Mother was right all along. Get a satin pillowcase.

    4. Yennefer of Vengerberg*

      Back when I cared about my curls, I would wrap my hair in a silk scarf before bed. You can find a lot of “how-tos” showing you how to wrap it so it’s comfortable to sleep in, protects your curls and doesn’t unravel in the night. Be warned: you will look like a 1950s housewife. As an insomnia sufferer, I needed something that wouldn’t make it harder to fall asleep and this was the only thing that worked.

    5. Cabin Fever*

      I have a spray bottle filled with water and a little curl cream product dissolved into it. I attack the frizz with the spray bottle on the mornings I don’t wash my hair.

    6. D'Euly*

      No helpful hints unfortunately, but I am immensely tickled that Dwight Schrute needs tips for curly hair :)

    7. Loopy*

      Someone here recommended Shea Moisture products and now it’s the only thing I use! I use a combination of curl cream and leave in conditioner. I also invested in a better sulfate free shampoo and conditioner (blanking on the name). However, I should admit….I do shower in the morning as I’ve found despite preferring nighttime showers, the big difference in styling my hair wet is worth the morning time.

      1. Dwight Schrute*

        Ugh yes morning showers definitely make my hair better but I just despise showering in the morning

    8. Mella*

      I wash at night, rinse out conditioner poorly (leaving some in) and apply nothing else. Sleep on satin pillowcase (fresh one every night). Jump in the shower to rewet and scrunch in gel. Hands off afterwards; curly hair is like muffin mix–overdo the prep and you get a mess.

    9. Jane*

      For my similar hair I refresh it in the morning – let it get close to the shower steam and/or scrunch the ends with very wet hands, though I don’t fully wet the hair because then it takes ages to dry again. Once out the shower I ‘plop’ it on top of my head with some bamboo fabric, sometimes adding a little more gel to the ends, then let it dry naturally. It’s more faff than I’d like, but the only way I’ve found to not have the curls either flattened or frizzy overnight. I’ve tried wrapping my head before sleep before and the scarf has always slid off overnight, but I’m going to check out the tutorials Yennefer mentions to see if it’s my technique or my weird shaped head causing that!

    10. DustyJo*

      REALLY enjoying the replies to your query!
      As you know, hair follicles are kind of built like snake skin. On straight hair, the follicles all lay flat and smooth, but on curly hair, they fly out and about. So, for starters, dry your hair by “blotting”, not rubby-rub-rubbing with your towel.
      I’ve got a bob these days. I was tired of the hair on the side I slept on looking crunched and just not falling nicely. So now, for sleeping, I gather my hair in 2 ponytails on top of my head! Keeps it relatively NOT, so to say, rubby-rubbing on the bedding and ruffling up the hair follicles.
      Next is a spray bottle of vinegar! I was SOOO tired of the dry, porous look. I googled it, and among the list of miracle (hah) products was the tip to do a vinegar rinse after shampoo/conditioner. Knowing I would NOT be standing in the shower pouring vinegar over my hair, I tried a spray bottle of vinegar. I spray while my hair is still damp, sliding it through my hair with my fingers, maybe a little extra on the ends. I sometimes spray a little during the day, on dry hair…
      Last: Coconut Oil. After hair is dry and styled the way I like it, I take a SMALL amount of Coconut Oil, rub it on my palms, and kind of glide my hands over my ‘do. Adds a bit of shine, plus kind of settles the hair.
      Hope these help!

    11. Enter_the_Dragonfly*

      Before anything else, I have to ask; are you showering every night? It wasn’t clear, but if you are please stop! I mean, wash your body, but most 2b+ hair can’t take it and it could have a lot to do with your attacks of frizz. Try getting yourself down to twice a week and I think you’ll notice a big difference. You might find your oil production goes into overdrive for a few weeks but then it will regain equilibrium.
      If you’re already doing this, then following a modified Curly Girl method has done wonders for me. I found it a few years ago and it was world changing. I couldn’t cope with the ‘no-poo’ method but now that you have sulphate-free, silicone-free shampoos there’s no need. If you’re physically able, bend double and flip your hair over in the shower, shampoo and rinse in that position then squeeze out the excess water and liberally apply the conditioner and try to pile your hair on your head (this is good for volume later). Leave it in for at least ten minutes then rinse out, doubled over again. Still with your head flipped over squeeze the extra water out with an old t-shirt, or a smooth Turkish towel, of something without too much friction. Gently scrunch in your product of choice startingfrom the tips (mine is a homemade mixture of cold pressed sunflower oil and coconut oil) and you can finally stand up straight. Once your hair is no longer dripping, place another low friction towel on your pillow and lie down and spread your hair over you head like a Disney princess hair halo. This will maximize root volume (therefore minimizing triangle head) and leave you with much smoother hair in the morning.
      So that’s my method. I hope a combination of everything we’ve said leads to your perfect curl technique, the curly community is with you lol!

      1. Dwight Schrute*

        Thank you! I don’t wash my hair every day! I wash it like once every 3 days maybe? I don’t keep track lol but it’s not every day unless I notice some sort of scalp funk going on or am getting like really sweaty

    12. Batgirl*

      I’m a frizz-prone 2c curly girl. I seem to have conquered frizz for the moment. My stand bys are:
      – Not using sulphates. Shea moisture weightless coconut shampoo gets me a half week of clean hair without drying me out.
      – Heavy duty masque conditioner: Shea Moisture weightless coconut masque or their argan masque.
      – Detangle your hair in the shower and once dry, use silk or satin gloves to detangle or scrunch your hair. Fingers make frizz and brushes are a no go.
      – My hair is too easily weighed down for most commercial leave ins but if it’s frizzy weather, I make a recipe from the neals yard beauty book: 2tbs coconut milk, 200ml chamomile tea, 2 drops chamomile oil (chamomile soothes the scalp too). Use a spray bottle to apply either as rinse out or leave in. I leave it in. Its totally invisible, bouncy and gives great shine.
      – I smooth on a small amount of Umberto Gianni curl jelly over wet hair to create a soft cast on the frizz prone surface areas (no need to scrunch it out), it can be further softened by mixing with water before application.
      – If I’m going to bed with wet hair, I’d probably Dutch braid into one or two plaits as my curl pattern is not symmetrical otherwise and it frizzes when drying on a pillow. Tension also prevents frizz. If my hair curled more reliably I’d probably make a satin or silk covered bun secured with a satin scrunchie (as I do on dry hair).
      – I sleep on a two sided pillow (cotton and real silk) as I get hot and the idea of satin on my face gives me hives. I try to fall asleep on the silky side so my hair doesn’t get tossed and turned on a rough surface. The cotton side is for the cool pillow flip during a lie in.
      – If your overnight plans go awry, Shea moisture coconut water spray will calm down frizz in the morning, as well as preventing it on rainy days.
      – Don’t demnoise frizz. Even healthy shiny moisturiser hair can have a little frizz. Rita Hayworth made it work.
      – If it’s not broke, don’t fix it. When you find products that work, stop experimenting. Whenever I do that I find that the shiny new product creates such build up or weighs me down so that I spend ages clarifying it out which is a great recipe for frizz. Apple cider vinegar is good for that though.

  10. Picky eater*

    I’m looking for healthy breakfast ideas for winter (so no smoothies.) I usually have multigrain bread toast but I’m hungry 2 hours later. It needs to be fast, so either made with little fuss or reheated.

    But I’m a picky eater. I only like eggs if scrambled. Making them from scratch isn’t feasible every day and they get really rubbery when reheated. I love the *idea* of steel cut oats and have made them numerous times, but the slime factor grosses me out.

    TIA!

    1. AdAgencyChick*

      Do you like granola? I’ve been making my own from scratch lately which means I put in only things I like (yes to dark chocolate chips, dried blueberries or cherries, and slivered almonds; no to coconut and raisins). It’s very easy and it’s fun to tinker with the recipe: lots of gingerbread spices in the winter to add flavor without adding to the calorie count, bourbon instead of vanilla extract, whether you use maple syrup or honey to bind it together, etc.

      I won’t post the link because that will send this to moderation, but the base recipe I use is the Cookie and Kate Healthy Granola one.

    2. Elspeth McGillicuddy*

      I have a peanut butter and nutella sandwich for breakfast everyday. Takes maybe 2 minutes to put together and it’s got enough protein to keep you full.

    3. Jay*

      I need protein or I am hungry an hour later no matter how much cereal or toast I eat. There are a bunch of recipes out there for high-protein waffles that can be made in advance and toasted. I’ve had one made with mozzarella cheese and I liked it. Definitely not slimy. I bet you could also add protein powder to a regular waffle recipe.

      Keto websites are great sources of high-protein subs for food that is usually made with all carbs. If you’re not following keto strictly (I don’t) you can use honey and sugar instead of monkfruit and stevia for sweeteners.

      Or forget about what breakfast is supposed to look like. My daughter sometimes makes herself a grilled cheese and bacon sandwich for breakfast. That may not be faster than scrambled eggs, but you could pop your whole-grain toast in the microwave with a little cheese on top to melt it. Anything that amps up the protein will keep you full longer.

      1. sswj*

        Yup, I’ve been known to open a can of tuna, add a dollop of mayo and a bit of lemon or herb-y seasoning mix and plonk that on some good toast. Fills the void nicely! Also a fan of leftover beef stew for breakfast, also with good toast to mop up the juice.

      2. Keymaster of Gozer*

        Adding a vote for cheese. I have a nice sampler of cheeses and crackers and attack that in the mornings. For some reason toast and cereals tend to give me migraines.

        1. Flair of Ashes*

          A wheat or barley intolerance/allergy could be the culprit of migraines. Or you might simply not like them.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      I have to have proteins for breakfast, or as you show, I am hungry by 9 am.
      I do make scrambled eggs every morning- but I want other things.
      My current alternative is some ground chicken. Bonus points for ground chicken, you can mix it with veggies/other things and eat it over a couple days.
      There are all different brands of vegetable drinks. What I like about this is that I do not have to mix them in a blender every day. They are already made. Veggies for breakfast will help your food stay with you.

      Alternatively, you could plan a mid-morning snack. I did this also when I had a really physical job. By lunch time I needed a full dinner’s worth of food. So I started loading up at mid-morning with a healthy snack.

      Don’t forget to hydrate. One of my biggest mistakes was assuming every hunger pang was hunger. It was NOT. Some of it was thirst, as thirst can masquerade as hunger. It’s so easy to forget water in the winter. I measure out what I should drink at the start of each day. I put it in mason jars so I can put a plastic lid on it and take it with me when I leave.

      1. ThatGirl*

        Yeah, I was going to say, definitely need some protein. Nuts, eggs, meat, whatever works. Maybe make scrambled egg breakfast burritos ahead of time, freeze and reheat?

          1. ThatGirl*

            Let the eggs cool completely before wrapping them, along with any other cooked ingredients. Add cheese, don’t overdo the sauce, wrap and then wrap tightly in foil or parchment and put ‘em in a freezer bag. I nuke mine for about 90 seconds-2 minutes but if you had a few extra minutes, heating them on top of the stove would help keep sogginess down too – spray lightly, flip over once and cover for a couple minutes to let the inside warm up.

    5. 00ff00Claire*

      I like toast with almond or peanut butter or a frozen waffle with almond butter. I buy the Kodiak brand of frozen waffles because they have more protein and keep me full longer.

    6. Curious Canadian*

      My two weekday breakfasts are Cottage cheese/ Greek yogurt/ homemade protein granola/ fruit and overnight oats. I modeled my overnight oats after Ask a stole woman, found on Google

    7. GoryDetails*

      I’m fond of El Monterey’s frozen breakfast burritos. They come in several versions, each with scrambled egg plus meats – bacon, sausage, etc. – and one with potatoes as well.

    8. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      My husband is super picky about reheated eggs because of the texture, but if you bake beaten eggs in muffin tins in the oven (Google “egg muffins”, but you basically just bake them in a greased muffin tin at 350 for about 18-20 minutes as I recall) they’re basically baked scrambled eggs, they freeze well and reheat in 30 seconds in the microwave and he says they don’t get that rubbery texture like pan fried scrambled eggs do. They can be eaten plain (I generally put cheese and sausage or bacon in them) or mashed up with a fork and put on toast or in a quick breakfast burrito after reheating.

      1. Otter Dance*

        Interesting, I had “egg bites” at Starbucks today, and remembered that I have a recipe to make them in the instant pot. No Gruyere on hand, as they use, but plenty of eggs and bacon crumbles and other kinds of cheese. Maybe I should do those again someday soon.

    9. CTT*

      On oats, I used to hate them for the same reason as you (so slimy!) but I started putting in less water than the instructions called for, and that made a huge difference for me.

    10. Lobsterp0t*

      Idk about healthy, but I like a protein and fat heavy breakfast because it helps my adhd meds “stick”.

      We make our own version of Leon avocado and halloumi toasted muffins. And outright own version of Egg McMuffins.

      I guess if eggs aren’t possible a whole milk yoghurt with frozen berries and honey is quite nice. I like to let the berries melt and then eat it all together while it is still cold

      1. StudentA*

        Wow, can you say more about making your meds “stick”? Because I’m guessing that would be the case for other types of meds and perhaps supplements.

    11. fposte*

      A recurring breakfast for me is sliced turkey (I get the precut Boar’s Head) on bagel/bread/crispbread. So I join the chorus suggesting that you throw some protein on your bread.

    12. MissDisplaced*

      Pre-made oats
      Egg bites made in muffin cups and reheated

      I’ve always love a peanut butter and jelly or PB and honey sandwich on whole wheat bread for on the go breakfasts.

    13. The Gollux, Not a Mere Device*

      Plain yogurt with fruit (usually frozen berries, which I take out of the freeze first thing in the morning and let defrost part way while I have tea, wash, and get dressed).

      Have you tried high-protein cereal? I like the “Kashi GO Lean” brand, and generally buy either cinnamon crunch or berry crunch.

    14. Courageous cat*

      Things you have to make ahead probably. Baked oatmeal (less slimy imo), egg and bacon cups (just whisk ’em together and bake them in a muffin tin), toasted waffles with pb on them (will help you feel more full)

    15. Girasol*

      I can’t do a carby breakfast in the morning. Oatmeal or dry cereal will make me hungrier by ten than I was before I ate. Last night’s leftovers are perfect for me – say, a bowl of beef stew warmed in the microwave – but my husband insists on having breakfast foods for breakfast. Sometimes I scramble two eggs in a bowl, add a splodge of salsa and a slice of cheese, and microwave two minutes for a lazy man’s omelet. I also like to warm frozen berries in a bowl and add cottage cheese and nuts.

    16. Joie de Vivre*

      I like breakfast quinoa. It isn’t fast, but it is definitely a make ahead and reheat recipe. I got it off of a quinoa package. If you are interested, I can post the recipe later.

    17. bunniferous*

      I would spread some cream cheese on that toast myself. As to steel cut oats, I make a batch in my Instant Pot and reheat portions in my microwave. If you like milk in your oatmeal you can put up to half milk half water in the original cooking liquid with that method.

      My husband likes cut up apple and peanut butter for breakfast when he is not in the mood for eggs.

      Avocado toast would also work well for you if you like that sort of thing but for me that might be more of a warm weather breakfast…

      Also is there any reason not to have soup in the morning? A hearty soup could be made ahead of time and reheated. Nice and warm for a winter morning, if not traditional.

    18. Gingerblue*

      I have similar feelings about oats and really like this recipe for baked oatmeal. A pan made on he weekend will last me most of the week: https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1018672-baked-oatmeal-with-berries-and-almonds

      I often like fried vegetables and some sort of protein for breakfast. If you have 5ish minutes, you can throw a selection of things in a skillet with a little butter or oil: frozen or pre-boiled and diced potatoes, pre-cooked spinach, a handful of fresh greens which will wilt in the pan, frozen peppers and onions, frozen mushrooms, etc. I usually add an egg or two, but you can also do a slice of ham or a piece of pre-cooked salmon or something. I’ll cook the spinach and salmon or whatever on the weekend and then it’s just reheating things quickly in the pan in the morning.

      Or how about adding a slice of cheese and cold cuts to the multigrain bread for an open-faced breakfast sandwich?

    19. Anono-me*

      If I have time, I do a fried egg on toast with a slice of cheese and tomato. But if I don’t have time, I just microwave some leftovers from the night before.
      Breakfast can be pork roast and sweet potatoes or spaghetti.

    20. Artemesia*

      I eat toast made from what we call ‘floor sweepings bread’ i.e. ezekial bread made out of only rough ground grains — no sugar at all. You buy it frozen; I like the Sesame loaf. And use a very thick layer of peanut butter (whole ground, no palm oil or sugar or whatever — just peanuts). You have to stir it up at the start to redistribute the oil which separates, but then keep it in the refrigerator. The protein/fat in the peanut butter makes this last till lunch time for me. Along with a latte (been drinking them since long before Starbucks — learned in Italy 40 years ago when at breakfast they would bring pitchers of coffee and warm milk and I would go a third coffee/two thirds milk). When I can get fresh cranberries I make thick sauce with orange juice instead of milk and half the volume and two thirds the sugar in the recipe and use that as jam on top of the peanut butter.

    21. comityoferrors*

      I make the same breakfast every day and prep the materials on the weekend. It’s easily adjustable:

      -On Sundays, I cook 1 cup of dry green lentils (simmer over medium heat for 25 min, stir frequently, add water as the lentils puff up), then season them by adding the cooked lentils to a pan where I’ve sautéed half a chopped onion, 1-2 chopped chipotle peppers, and 1-2 tbsp adobo sauce. I add those because I love spicy food – you could sauté anything for your desired flavor (garlic, onions, bell peppers, etc. are good suggestions I’ve seen) or just season with your favorite salts. Lentils are very healthy, hold well in the fridge for a week, and soak up a lot of flavor. I’m a picky eater and very selective with textures, so I was afraid of trying them at first, but I absolutely love them now.

      -Also on Sundays, I chop up a sweet potato into bite-sized pieces. I store the chopped sweet potato in sealed containers in the fridge. They last at least a week, probably more (I can’t attest to that because they’re always eaten by that point in my house.)

      -Every morning, I heat up 2-3 tbsp olive oil in a frying pan and chop a bell pepper as it heats. You can chop the bell peppers on the weekend too – it holds really well in sealed containers – but it’s a pretty quick process and I like to use an entire bell pepper every day which would be a lot of containers for me :) When the pepper is chopped and the oil is fluid, I throw in the pepper and pour in chopped sweet potatoes from the fridge, varying how much I pour based on how hungry I am (I eyeball it). Set the timer for 10 min and periodically stir with a spatula. 3-4 mins in, I add whatever seasoning I’m in the mood for (I use cayenne and paprika, but have also enjoyed adding onion powder, garlic salt, basil, black pepper, etc.)

      -At ~5 min into the 10 min cooking process, I add 1/4 – 1/2 cup of my cooked lentils from the weekend. I stir them in with the peppers and potatoes and mix everything together really well.

      -If I have greens on hand, I throw some on top at 8-9 min into the cook time. Just enough time for them to start to wilt but not get too soft.

      -If I’m really hungry or ran out of one of my ingredients, I cook a vegan scrambled egg substitute, which is liquid. With the pan already hot from the stir fry, it takes maaaaybe 5 minutes to cook. You can probably find liquid scrambled eggs in the grocery store which will be much faster than cracking all the eggs you need.

      The process takes me maybe 20 min on a slow day, and I use the cooking time to make my coffee, listen to a podcast, play with my cats, and so on. I just come back to stir the pan every few minutes. It’s really easy, healthy, filling, and you can substitute any veggies you have left over. I’ve used carrots, mushrooms, asparagus, broccoli, onions…just make sure you chop each veggie roughly the same size and google “how long do I sauté [vegetable]” to make sure you time the ingredients right.

    22. Seeking Second Childhood*

      Fried rice with leftover veg & protein and an egg cracked in.
      Also think about other grains as starch — polenta, grits, rice porridge esp Asian congee.

    23. Mephyle*

      Breakfast possibilities expand almost infinitely if you break away from the idea that breakfast can only include “breakfast foods.” Make a little extra dinner and save some for breakfast the next day (or skip a day if you don’t want to have the same thing two meals in a row). You can have soup or stew, or salad, or casserole, or meat and veg, or a taco or wrap, or a hamburger or a sandwich… in short anything that you would eat at any other meal of the day. In smaller amounts, if you want.

    24. TechWorker*

      Idk if anyone else suggested already cos I didn’t read all the comments :p but I have a microwave egg cooker that produces something very close to scrambled egg (‘microwave egg boiler’ is what it comes up as on eBay). You put one egg in it, whisk it up with a fork and microwave for about a minute == done…

    25. Observer*

      What about adding some hard cheese? You can either add the cheese after you toast the bread, or toast it together for a different effect.

      Hummus and peanut butter are a couple of other items you could add to your bread. Both are high protein, which should make a significant difference.

    26. Pharmgirl*

      Baked oatmeal is a great way to avoid that slimy texture, and as a bonus you’re basically prepping for the week and reheating a slice every morning.

      Baked egg cups are good too, hold up well for a few days, and reheat quickly in the microwave.

      Do you like breakfast sandwiches? You can make English muffin sized omelettes with whisked eggs ( so scrambled-ish) with cheese +/- breakfast meat. I’ve also see versions where you can freeze a bunch for prep.

      This reminds me, you can batch prep and freeze breakfast burritos using scrambled eggs too. Tons of varieties online.

    27. A Non E. Mouse*

      Not trying to be funny, but: try non-breakfast foods.

      Especially in winter, a nice vegetable beef broth-type soup is warming and hydrating, has protein and veggies, and you make it a pot at a time so it’s accidental meal prep.

      Just a thought. Maybe switch to “brunch” menu in your planning?

    28. Kuddel Daddeldu*

      Most classical American Breakfast items are not that healthy to begin with, unfortunately- too much cholesterol, fat and/or sugar.
      Most store-bought breakfast cereals are loaded with sugar, either directly or from chocolate, honey, or fruit. Eggs are good for you only in moderation (like weekly at most, I hear – as I have eggs for breakfast maybe once a quarter I did not research that further).
      What works for me as my go-to breakfast is two large slices of toast with Greek yogurt flavored with honey. About half of a 150g/5oz tub goes on the toast, the rest I’ll keep for the next day or eat outright. Keeps me going until lunch – no wonder as one tub of the yogurt has 200 calories/864 kJ, 10% of the recommended daily value, and 27% of the recommended daily sugar intake; two large slices of toast add another 200 calories/10%.

      1. ThatGirl*

        Eggs are actually pretty healthy on their own, even daily, they are a complete protein. The trick is to eat 1 or 2 paired with veggies and not too much cheese or bacon. They do contain cholesterol, but ironically, it’s saturated and trans fat that raise blood cholesterol, not dietary cholesterol.

    29. Batgirl*

      Have you tried overnight oats? Make them ahead with equal amounts oats and milk and the texture is springy and chewy. I top with Greek yoghurt and blueberries.

    30. I take tea*

      It might be to slimy for your taste, but I’ve sometimes made chia pudding. Easy to make several and keeps for days in the fridge. Lots of protein and other good stuff, and pretty easy to make. I do it with soy milk and a little vanilla and cardamom and a little sweetener of some kind, but there’s a ton of recipes out there. The key is to stir regularly for the first five or ten minutes to get the chia evenly spread out in the milk.

      Peanut butter or tahini is good on some bread, adds protein.

      I’m fascinated by all the people eating proper food for breakfast, I absolutely can’t. The exception being left over pizza, sometimes.

  11. MuddyBuddy*

    Anyone soundproofed a house before?

    Partner and I are looking to buy a house in the next 6 months to 1 year, and in talking about our wants and needs for it we both decided to look into making it more soundproof from the outside. (We’ve spent the last few years in an apartment where the mistreatment of women and animals, along with general inconsiderate neighbor noise at all hours, comes through the walls and I have become extremely anxious in my home.)

    Is soundproofing a house like that a thing you can even do (either yourself or hired)? I realize it’ll probably never be able to block out all sound, and budget is certainly a factor. When I Google it, I get a lot of results for in-home recording studios but that’s not quite what I’m looking for. Maybe it would be better to just find a remote place in the woods at this point, haha.

    Alternatively, when house hunting, are there any clues you can look for that the street/neighborhood is relatively quiet? Is driving by a potential house at odd hours multiple times a week too creepy?

    1. Dwight Schrute*

      Hello! Look for a brick house with newer windows. I live in a house with siding and slightly older windows, and can hear thunder storms really well as well as normal neighbor noise like lawn mowing and kids playing. My parents have a brick house about the same size and got new windows and it’s so quiet! Can’t hear lawn mowers, kids playing and storms are much quieter. I also recently moved from a townhouse due to noise and not having shared walls has been the best change ever!

      1. Dwight Schrute*

        Also wanted to add: I don’t think it’s creepy to drive by multiple times, we did that with the house we are in and no one batted an eye

      2. Artemesia*

        We live on Lake Shore Drive in Chicago which is a busy highway and very noisy day and night. We replaced the lake side windows last year with new state of the art double glazed windows and it is astonishing how dramatically that cut the noise — so definitely look at high quality double glazing. And newer construction often has insulation that is more effective for noise as well as sound. But with stand alone house — the key is likely the windows.

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      You might want to consult an acoustical engineer– many serve construction businesses, but some also do residential work. I live in DC where a lot of houses are very close together, so I imagine they do a good business in a place like this. Might be pricey, but I am also noise-sensitive so it looks worth it to me!

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Insulation did it for me here. I can barely hear anything from the outside. It’s so disconcerting. However, insulation will do a good job for you.

      When you own a house, unless it’s a condo there are no common walls with neighbors so you will be less apt to hear things. My previous dog could hear the neighbors arguing but I could not. My dog also caught on that the back apartment across the street was being vandalized. I figured it out what my dog was saying to me, when that nice police officer explained it to me 10 hours later at 11 pm at night.

      Neighborhoods with less kids tend to be more quiet. I definitely would drive through the neighborhood at different hours to see what it’s like. As long as you do not stop and stare at a house, I think you will be okay. People know the house is for sale so they expect drive-bys.

      1. Venus*

        This. Insulation. The ability to efficiently regulate indoor temps is directly related to sound. There is a lot of emphasis these days on keeping homes well insulated, and you can take advantage of this. It is difficult to get info about noise levels in a home, but many places have programs where the municipal government will pay for a specialist to do an assessment on your home on where heat is escaping, and the best way to improve things. There is blow-in insulation and other options that won’t require stripping your drywall, although check as some of the stiffer ones may be less effective for noise.

        I would strongly recommend that you drive around the neighborhood, especially later at night on weekends (student parties) and earlier in the morning (7-9am, dogs barking) and weekend afternoons (kids playing). It also depends on your preference, as I had kids next door and I encouraged them to use my yard to play as they were respectful and it was nice to hear them having fun, and it was always afternoons when I didn’t mind a bit of noise with the windows open in summer. I also used to live next to a school, but I didn’t even notice as my home was well insulated but more importantly I was almost never home on weekdays.

        1. Venus*

          Based on comments elsewhere I will add that I have a broad definition of insulation. This applies to windows, and anywhere else in the house. Better flooring or whatever works for a home. If there is heat escaping (which it often does through windows) then look to improve the R value in order to improve the noise.

      2. Pippa K*

        Insulation is a good suggestion, but I’ll add that in a poorly-insulated 1940s house where adding insulation wasn’t an option, installing good-quality new windows made a shocking improvement in how much outside noise we could hear. It was great – and also made the house easier to heat.

    4. MissGirl*

      I would buy the house and then see if it’s a problem. I bought a townhouse and was surprised how much I don’t hear the neighbors even though they’ve had two babies in the last few years.

        1. ES*

          I think Miss Girl meant to see if there was an issue first before deciding to spend tens of thousands of dollars on sound proofing right off the bat.

          1. MissGirl*

            Yes, they’re spending a lot of time figuring out how soundproof a house and they don’t know for sure they’ll need to.

      2. Generic Name*

        My thoughts exactly. I’ve lived in 3 different single family homes over the last 20 years, and I have not once heard my neighbors inside their houses. I might hear my neighbors across the street in their front yard if I’m in the front room next to the window, but I normally never hear them at all. The lack of shared walls and physical distance naturally keeps things quiet.

    5. WellRed*

      Definitely do multiple drivebys. Look for a house in a less denser neighborhood. Also, I recommend not buying a house that is located near a multi unit. At least in my area, that often means younger, with friends in and out, later hours. (For the record I live in a three family among single family homes. I know there have been times/tenants that have been a bother to the neighbors).

    6. MMB*

      If your looking for an inexpensive way to reduce street noise you can use tall grasses and bushes just google landscape + noise barrier.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Oh this is a great point. Sometimes counties/municipalities plant rows of trees along highways to reduce the highway sounds for the residents nearby.

    7. Jack Russell Terrier*

      Going by multiple times at different hour is not creepy – a good way to go. Seeing the neighborhood at different times, particularly at night, is important – preferably in warm weather when you can see the nighttime vibe before you buy.

    8. Epsilon Delta*

      If you’re buying a single family home on a lot, I think that will solve 90% of the problem of hearing neighbor noises unless you’re buying a condo oe maybe a building in a tightly packed area that shares an outer wall with another building. If you have a single family home with even a little bit of grass/yard around it, you’re mainly going to be dealing with the sounds people make out in public, like driving cars, dogs barking, mowing grass/landscaping, and occasionally an outdoor party/gathering. Would those noises bother you the same way as sharing walls in an apartment?

      1. Not So NewReader*

        These sounds are different from the angry, frightening sounds you mention, OP. These are more like going about life sounds.

    9. Mystic*

      Soundproofing a house is possible, although admittedly most people tend to think about home recording studios. Your best bet is probably some form of insulation, and I did a quick search. There’s a website called “Soundproofcow” that might be helpful.

    10. Llellayena*

      Newer windows are the primary thing to look for. Specifically double pane, non-vinyl windows, preferably recently installed so the sealant is still good. If it’s been a while since the install you can also re-seal them. If you share a wall with an adjacent house, an extra layer of drywall will help, and there are drywalls that are specifically designed to help with sound (look for Soundbreak gypsum wallboard, it should pop up). Brick or stone on the exterior does help. If/when you need to re-side the house adding 1 inch of rigid insulation to the exterior will help too (bonus is a big improvement on insulation too!). There are acoustic engineers out there that might have other suggestions, though outside of an architect’s professional contacts I’m not sure how to find one…

    11. fposte*

      I agree that talking about it in insulation terms will be your best bet. However, depending on your region you may hit a conflict—houses in older areas have more mature vegetation, which makes a huge difference in damping sound, but they’re more permeable as well. I might pay for a meeting with an insulation specialist in your area before you start really looking to ask about tips in identifying a house that has the best potential in that area.

      FWIW, I really like quiet, but I’d actually be freaked out by a house that’s too cut off from outside sound—lightning with no thunder would make me really uneasy, and I like being able to follow the sonic syntax of the delivery truck noise before I get the knock on the door. So for me older vegetation is better than a new house I could fully muffle, even if it does leave me vulnerable to the occasional desperate dog barking.

    12. Mella*

      One noise issue I didn’t anticipate is my township’s policies regarding trash. We don’t have city trash, we have a set of licensed contractors to choose from. Every neighbor picks their own, so I have to be woken up by trash trucks ten times a week (five companies picking up trash and recycling separately). Earplugs don’t help much with that sharp crashing noise.

      Also, I’d love to know if you can look up dog licenses for a given area. The majority of my neighbors have poorly-trained mutts that they leave outside to bark all day and night.

    13. Me*

      We just redid our master bedroom last year. The house was built in the early 20s and the bedroom was remodeled/added on in the 50s.

      We had one long 13’ window with single pane glass. We knew there was some insulation but not much.

      We tore out the whole room including ceiling and walls. We ordered our favorite windows- which aren’t cheap but we are window snobs. We love fir windows with double pane glass and true divided light (no slap on grids to make the windows look like they have divided panes).

      The difference in the windows alone is night and day.

      We did foam insulation at the base of each wall bay (along with some hardware cloth- keeps the little beasties out). If our budget would’ve allowed, we would’ve done foam insulation but we put the most $ towards windows instead. I’m guessing that foam insulation (the type you pay someone to install) dampens sound even better.

      But what we did do is build out the 2×4 bays to 2×6, so that there were 6” of depth in the wall for insulation.

      We also put rock wool insulation in the ceiling- a specific sound proofing type. We have a TV room above the den and while our kids are off to college, when they’re home they tromp through there and it’s noisy. It dampens the noise but doesn’t block it completely.

      1. fposte*

        Can you expand on being a window snob? What are the standards, and what brands deliver? Following in snobs’ footsteps is one of my favorite shortcuts to good stuff.

        1. Me*

          Ha!

          Yeah windows have always been our thing. We’ve only owned two houses – one built in the 1910s and this one built in the 1920s. Both craftsman style with lots of stained fir trim. DH’s best friend is an architect and we’ve always used him on house projects that are major-ish.

          For our first house we used a local custom window company. These types of companies build the windows from scratch and you pick all the details including the profiles of the muntin bars between the panes. We get detailed drawings of each window to approve before construction. They typically take about 12 weeks lead time from the approval to delivery.

          In this house we have double hung windows and each window has seven panes of glass- the lower sash has one pane and the upper sash has six panes (divided by the muntins). Both sashes slide (one up, one down). They are fir on the exterior (we have them primed) and raw fir on the inside so we can stain them.

          We use a company in Washington called Quantum Windows (somewhat local but in another state) In terms of cost, the three double hung windows in our bedroom cost about $5k each. When we replace our living room window, it’ll be a set of three double hungs ganged together and will likely be a $15k window.

          The windows will last for the rest of our lives, much like the original craftsman windows in our houses. Of course they’ll eventually break down, but that’ll be long after I’m dead.

          Every time we look at moving, the houses have vinyl windows. We just can’t deal with vinyl, and it’s what a lot of people use nowadays because they cost a lot less.

    14. pancakes*

      The NYT has published so many articles over the years about frustrated people who live above bars, etc. I’d search their archives for soundproof and see what turns up.

    15. They Don’t Make Sunday*

      I agree with @Dwight Schrute. Windows do a lot but the cladding really matters. State-of-the-art windows won’t get you so far if you put them on a house with siding. Brick and stucco let way less sound through. Also pay attention to the layout. Avoid bedrooms overlooking the street. I live on a what is most of the time a quiet street (in a city), but because my bedroom is on the street, I get woken up at least once a week by noise. Garbage truck, car alarm, motorcycle, barking dog, person who is on some kind of night shift schedule and walks their dog and loud toddler (???) regularly at 1am. I have double-paned windows and my building has siding, and the sound comes straight in. The biggest problem in my case is the layout, though.

    16. TechWorker*

      We live in a terraced house and paid extra for soundproof plasterboard on the walls adjacent to the neighbours. Not a quick or cheap job (the rooms were being renovated anyway) but we barely hear them at all and there’s a family one side and dogs on both sides.

    17. Fellow Traveller*

      I’m so sorry! Being anxious in your house is hard. I don’t know anything technical about soundproofing, but when we had our basement done, we asked our contractor about it because the basement vented to the kids’ room and we worried about noise from the tv keeping them up. He said he could put additional insulation in the walls, but for true soundproofing we would have to hire someone who specifically did soundproofing. Another anecdotal input – at work – well when I used to go into work – I work in a building where some of the rooms were rented out to opera singers and there were thick curtains hung around the walls in all the rooms to help dampen the sound of singing from travelling. It wasn’t perfect, but on days when you forgot to draw the curtains, the singing was definitely much louder.
      +1 on seeing the neighborhood at various times/days. Our neighborhood sounds very different during the weekend from the weekday. In fact, I might suggest getting out of your car and walking around. We definitely did that – we knew that our house was close to a major highway and wanted to see how bad the sound really was.
      You might also look at what else is in the neighborhood. We live close to a hospital and there are sirens at all hours of the day. It doesn’t bother us, and we actually joke that it’s as if we still lived in the city. But I can see how this kind of thing would bother someone else. (Bonus, though is our street always gets plowed first in a snow storm!)

    18. Kuddel Daddeldu*

      What works best for soundproofing depends on the frequency of the noise.
      (I’m simplifying here, so any acoustics specialist may forgive me.)
      Low frequency sounds (subway, train rolling, traffic, footsteps, deep bass from music) travel through the structure and the ground, high frequency (shouting, kids, car horns, most part of music) travel through the air.
      Heavy building materials (bricks, concrete) are very good at blocking high frequency sounds. They can’t to much about sounds that travel through the structure; to block that, you’d need to insulate the house from the ground as is common in earthquake areas.
      Lighter materials are good as heat insulation but not as good at blocking sound. Acoustic fiberboard (a light material) works well by having many little cavities; the sound waves lose their energy by having to switch from one medium (air) to another (fibers) many times.
      For an existing house, I’d hire a consultant. At mayby $1000, she can recommend measures that work for the particular noise problem; from replacing the wrong window installation foam or caulking, a layer of acoustic fiberboard on critical walls, closing or dampening attic vents, adding a soundproofing insert to critical windows, etc.
      I would definitely go for that before moving in (if you want to renovate a wall anyway, it’s a good time to add a layer of fiberboard) and maybe before buying.
      A custom soundproof window can cost $25,000 or so I read; these have laminated glass that is usually also fairly burglar/violence proof – a fact that can make some noise less scary.

      1. Kuddel Daddeldu*

        One more thing: For bedrooms, shutters can also help – they add another sound barrier at night that does not have to be transparent so it can be very tight. Exterior rolling shutters are very popular in Europe; you can add them to existing windows for around $1000-1500 including a remote control motor.

    19. Melody Pond*

      A couple of resources for you:

      https://howloud.com – kind of like the WalkScore website, except it gives you a Sound Score for pretty much any address in the US, I believe.

      https://indowwindows.com – this is a company that makes window inserts to improve your insulation and/or soundproofing (they have an “acoustic insulation” option in their inserts, I believe).

      The Indow company is pretty cool – I remember reading a news article about them when the pandemic was pretty new. They took some particular process design protocols and applied them to their work environment to minimize exposure to Covid for their employees that had to come in. For example, they removed all of their door handles and replaced them with arm hooks, so their employees would use their forearms to open and close doors, rather than hands touching doorknobs. And their whole sales/order process is remote (and it was that way even before the pandemic). You put in some initial measurements for the windows you have, then you talk to a sales associate a little more, and then they send you a laser measuring kit via mail. You use that kit to take your window’s measurements, then you put your final order in, and they build your order custom for you and ship it out to you. It’s WAY less expensive than getting whole new windows, and comes with energy efficiency that is on par with getting new, fancy windows. And like I said, they have an “acoustic” grade option that is specifically targeted for significant noise blocking.

    20. BellaDiva*

      Remember to roll your windows down when you park. Friends bought a house near am internal airport under a flight path. They had checked the sound level sitting in the car with the windows up, which was quite different from sitting in the backyard.

      Also, keep in mind that winter neighbourhood sounds will be different from summer neighbourhood sounds.

  12. Latch hooking*

    Is anyone into latch hooking?

    I’d like to try to make a rug and a lot of the rug mat grids available for sale online do not have good reviews due to falling apart, smell, etc. Does anyone like a brand they like?

    Also any suggestions for videos or blogs they found useful when starting out?

    Thank.

    1. Not Australian*

      Did quite a lot of this years ago, not recently. I bought kits from Readicut, which still exists but may be a different entity now, and paid the extra for pure wool whenever I could. End result; of four rugs I made, two are still going strong, easy to clean, not smelly and not falling apart although you do have to be very careful with binding the edges. The other two were really too small to be much use and went out of fashion so I donated them; it was all about the ‘making’ rather than the ‘having’ for me anyway.

    2. All Hail Queen Sally*

      Although I haven’t done any latch hooking in a while, I did lots in the 1970’s and 1980’s. There is a company Shillcraft dot com that sells quality (wool) kits (I still have one of theirs my grandmother made in the 1970’s that is still in great shape –looks like new, but it was hung on a wall and not walked on). I made some that I wad up for the cats to sleep on and they are fine but I hand wash them and let them air dry. (From Herrschners dot com.) I do understand that contemporary materials may not be of the same quality as materials of the past. At one time, they made washable canvases, that went fine thru the washing machine, but haven’t seen it advertised in a while. And as I type this, I am reminded that I still have a kit somewhere in storage… Good luck with latch hooking–it goes fast and is good for those who like instant gratification.

    4. Claritza*

      They are fun and easy to do! When we were kids in the 60s (ages about 7 – 15) we made one for our grandmother. It’s wool and still going strong! Attaching the yarn takes very little attention.

  13. Grits McGee*

    Thanks to everyone who commented on my question on the gift recommendation thread a couple weeks ago! I was asking for some low stakes/low investment art gift suggestions for my brother; someone recommended the book 365 Days of Art and he really liked it! Unfortunately the accompanying watercolor pencils are in transit somewhere :(

    Did anyone else give iffy gifts this year that the receiver ended up loving?

    1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      I was the receiver – my husband picked out a large rug for my living room for me (which I knew because it’s hard to hide a 9×12 rug, even rolled up, when I’m the one who works from home and sees the delivery guys) and I was super nervous about what style/pattern he’d picked, but I’m super pleased by his choice and it was one of the top two options I had been considering originally anyway. :) He didn’t know that, because when I asked him if he wanted input he told me it was my choice, so I hadn’t gotten around to showing him options yet.

        1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

          It was, and I’m so glad!! I recommended those all over the place, and they seem to have been a hit for a lot of folks :)

    2. Asenath*

      A sweater I bought sight unseen for a little girl. Normally, I’d buy something at a sale supporting an organization, but this year there was no public sale and an option was to phone a knitter and place an order. I ordered a purple cardigan, thinking the girl would like purple, but not realizing that the knitter’s idea of purple was rather more intense than mine, and the design more elaborate. I had serious doubts when I saw it, but the little girl adored the colour, the lacy bits, the hood and the bow. It was one of my more successful gifts, although I usually avoid giving clothes (except for infants) because of concerns over style, size and colour.

    3. Seeking Second Childhood*

      I received one– my husband was really worried about giving me sheets, but he got me the 100% linen I’ve been coveting for several years. I’m over the moon. I didn’t even have them on my list anymore…he remembered me talking about the options and that in itself was a gift.

    4. LGC*

      Okay, here’s one: I braved the mall yesterday (I know, I KNOW – I went early in the day, and only stayed there for half an hour) to grab my great-aunt a warm and fluffy housecoat.

      She adores it.

      (To be fair, she always complains about being cold in her room – she lives with my parents, and her room is in the corner of the apartment building, so it does get drafty there. But it was a bit of a stretch.)

    5. ImOnlyHereForThePoetry*

      I sent a Penzy’s Spices gift pack to a family member and I think it was a big hit.

      I also bought myself some spices from them today (free shipping plus a free thing of spices today.)

      Thanks to the person who suggested this!

  14. Keymaster of Gozer*

    For my fellow people into strategy games (computer or board): any recommedations for really immersive games?

    I can lose entire days to Civilization or Stellaris on the PC and I’ll happily beat anybody at Risk on the board game so I like complex stuff.

    1. Caterpie*

      I really liked Frost Punk, and have had a lot of fun with Crusader Kings (although I didn’t really play the game other than the matchmaking part). I’d say CK has a lot more intricacy in the strategy but Frostpunk is extremely immersive and you definitely feel a sense of foreboding.

    2. CatCat*

      Star Wars Outer Rim board game was very complex, but we had a blast once we understood the mechanics of the game play.

      1. Keymaster of Gozer*

        Cheers mate, that looks exceptionally good – and the husband unit is a big star wars fan so it’ll fit in well here :)

    3. Meerkatting at mention of games*

      For computer games,
      * Europa Universalis (They’re on IV right now; but III is solid, cheap, and doesn’t have the flood of DLC that modern Paradox games have.);
      * Dominions 5 (Meh to okay single player, quite enjoyable multiplayer; I typically play with 1 or 2 friends hotseat as a team against the computer. Absorbing the rules to the game, particularly the magic system, is akin to drinking from a firehose, though. Graphics are from about Y2K, if that’s a concern — I didn’t know anyone still used the .tga format — but the code is *tight*: a 30-player game turn will process in a few seconds.)

      For board games, it’s harder to make recommendations, because there’s such a diversity of primary and secondary mechanics that “strategy game” kinda blurs. But contenders would be:
      * Twilight Imperium (It’s big, long, and requires a minimum of four players (IMO), and is better with six. Now on its fourth edition. Probably closest to what you mean by “strategy game”.)
      * Anything in GMT’s COIN series. (You’d want to go over to the GMT website to get details of the theming of the various titles, but I can vouch for both Fire In The Lake (Vietnam War) and Pendragon (fall of Roman Britain). Most of the entries are best with four players, although you can play with fewer — either allying co-belligerent factions, or using the bots provided for solo play. Very strong as solo games, once you get used to the bots.)

      Games that I wouldn’t really call ‘strategy’ but might qualify under ‘immersive’:
      * High Frontier (A doozy of a planning game. Just released its fourth edition. Do your review research on this one, as it’s definitely not for everyone.)
      * Sidereal Confluence (A nearly pure trading game. Requires four players, but shines with 6 to 8. Just got a reprint.)
      * Spirit Island (Cooperative planning and disaster mitigation; very strong theming. Both the expansions are good: Branch and Claw is more of a completion of the game; Jagged Earth adds some very strange (often quite complex) spirits to the mix. Also good as a solo game.)

    4. Roja*

      My husband is quite the gamer and he recommends XCOM: Enemy Within and The Way for PC, and Twilight Imperium and Zombicide for board. D&D seems like a classic one to recommend, of course. Also, he says The Way is currently on sale for $1.50 on Steam so that would be a cheap one to try out.

    5. Dan*

      I don’t think it’s billed as a strategy game per se, but on the PC, I really, really, like the Hitman series. It lives up to its namesake, but it’s a game where if you get caught doing the hit, you pretty much lose. Which means that even though you carry a gun around a lot, using the gun usually gets you noticed and therefore caught.

      But it’s a *good* strategy game. There are several different ways to complete an objective, and you can only do a few per any play through. So you have to play through each level multiple times in order to truly complete it. And the more you play through the same level, the more familiar with it you get, which in turn helps with the strategizing you have to do.

  15. Dwight Schrute*

    Update question: did we ever get an update on the OP with the boss telling weird lies about them? I think about this one every so often and it’s just SO ODD

  16. Invisible Fish*

    What are you doing to gear yourself up for x more months of what’s going on with the pandemic? Being off for Christmas has allowed me to be still long enough to truly think about the next 9 months unfolding like the previous ones …. I can keep wearing the mask and taking the precautions because those are just “things it is smart to do,” like wearing a seatbelt or using pot holders. But putting up with people who aren’t taking things seriously …. that’s where I’m going to struggle. How do you keep calm in the face of this lack of concern for others? How do you think you’ll keep calm as we move ahead?

    1. Dwight Schrute*

      Oh this is a struggle for me as well. I discuss it with my therapist. I’ve taken to loudly proclaiming that masks don’t work if they don’t cover your nose, and saying WEAR A MASK in public because I seem to have lost all filter. It’s probably not the best route to go but it does help me feel better in the moment. I’ve also snoozed news sources and unfollowed anti maskers on social media so I don’t have to see their posts anymore

      1. tangerineRose*

        I’m fortunate enough to work at home, so what with that and using curbside takeout, I don’t really go out that much, so I haven’t encountered much anti-mask stuff in person. I have had to snooze/unfollow some people on Facebook.

      2. allathian*

        My husband does most of our shopping, usually once a week. We live in an area that’s not so crowded that you’d need to wear masks outdoors. Since the pandemic started, I’ve only used public transit once, in September.

        I’ll use a mask when I can’t avoid going somewhere and stay home unless I absolutely have to go somewhere, because I’m very sensitive to excess carbon dioxide, which I’ve learned during this pandemic, although I do remember getting a headache in our stuffy, windowless meeting rooms as well. I get a headache every time I put a mask on and wear it for more than 30 minutes. It’s not a matter of running out of oxygen, but excess CO2. Luckily I can WFH 100% and this isn’t likely to change until the pandemic is beaten so I’m not going to be forced to put up with a headache to work at the office or to travel there.

    2. Yennefer of Vengerberg*

      I mean… I live in Sweden and the complete disregard for others is taken to another level here (people are just now starting to wear masks and it’s far from everyone). The way I deal with it? I worry about myself and my family and don’t worry about what the next guy is doing. That means I wear a mask and it means skipping visiting older relatives for xmas. I don’t really see the point in actively being upset by what other people are doing since my being upset will not force them to change. Instead, I’m focusing on my own mental health and learning to enjoy this quiet time with my husband. I’m tackling some long-standing issues with my relatives (in therapy), I’ve started painting, I’m pursuing a professional certification, I’m applying for jobs, etc. Some days it’s easier than others, but in conclusion: Focus on yourself, not on others. Focus on the present and where *you* are today, and not on the future and the implications of other people’s actions.

      Note: I’m someone who’s happy when I’m working towards a goal (hence my long list of activities). That’s not to say I think you need to fill your time and accomplish a bunch of stuff. Do (or don’t do) whatever makes sense to take care of yourself.

      1. ....*

        This is exactly my approach to. I can genuinely say most of the time I do not feel anger /resentment towards anti mask people etc because I know I cannot change 50 million peoples opinions. Also being angry and frustrated at them does nothing for me except raise my stress levels and insomnia and cortisol running through my body is only going to make me sicker if I caught covid. I got an additional work certificate and am now working on a longer term additional degree. I cook a lot I spend a lot of time with my dog and shoot I watch TV all the time because I love TV! Am I pretty much dying to go to a workout class and a restaurant?! Yup!! And I will do everything in *my power* to not contribute to the spread of covid.

      2. allathian*

        Yes, this is pretty much my approach as well. I can’t change how others behave, but I’ll do what I can to limit my exposure, even if it means missing out on things I’d like to do. I’m also not above using blackmail on my husband, whose friends seem to be a lot more cavalier about COVID than I am. I told him one day, “go see them if you must, but if you do, for the next two weeks I’m not staying in the same room as you unless you’re wearing a mask”. Needless to say, he didn’t go.

    3. Lobsterp0t*

      I make a conscious decision that the person not appearing to take it seriously is someone who is entitled to the exception and I keep my distance and offer them that grace as much as I can.

      Of course if they’re being an asshole then it’s a case of removing myself from their presence.

      This is hard but it’s really the only thing that I have found to do that helps my mental health.

      These individual decisions wouldn’t matter as much – and don’t – if the public health infrastructure is there. So maybe give yourself a “judgement jar” every time you find yourself thinking judgementally and put a few pennies in it. And then at the end of the month donate those pennies to public health organisations helping in your area.

      1. fposte*

        Oh, I like that last idea. Even if I get rebellious and want to buy myself a bunch of judgment it still has a purpose.

        1. A313*

          I like the idea of buying myself a bunch of judgment! It’s a purchase no one else needs to know about and goes out into the world transformed into help.

      2. Tired of Covid-and People*

        No grace for those offering sickness and death to others. These folks can always stay home. It is projected that death will reach half a million in the US. That’s obscene, as many as in the Civil War.

        I too have lost all filter. I stay home as much as I can, it’s what helps me stay sane. I cannot be at peace with covid deniers.

      3. Jackalope*

        I appreciate the idea of assuming the person without a mask is an exception (unless they are making it loudly and clearly obvious that they aren’t). I keep reminding myself of a friend whose son has nonverbal autism and has not been able to tolerate a mask. They’re working on it with him and he’s up to wearing it for about 20 seconds, but that’s as far as he can go right now. She’s gotten a fair amount of hate when she’s been out with him (which she has to do a lot these days because of school closures) even though she’s wearing a mask and clearly complying. So I think to myself that I don’t know all circumstances and maybe this person is unable to wear a mask for some reason. Doesn’t change my behavior but makes me less angry.

    4. Keymaster of Gozer*

      It’s been…probably one of the worst years of my life. I’ve lost friends, my sanity at least once and a lot of faith in the human race as a whole.

      (also I have mental illnesses, was unemployed for a long time…)

      So, here’s the things I have done to help steady my mind:

      1. Stop watching the news. I’ll get info on vaccine development from the scientific community and what Tier our local area is at from the government. Anything else I’ve dropped because I can’t spare the resources to process it.

      2. Really cull my Facebook friends list and groups. Anyone posting conspiracy theories or ‘I’m not wearing a mask for the flu’ got unfriended. I don’t want to see that stuff, I can’t handle it. This does mean there are some friends that are now ex-friends. Bottom line is I have to save myself from going crazy again.

      3. Have plans and practise for when people try to force the issue. Like, what to do if someone stands 2 inches from me in a queue and coughs. Knowing I’ve got a plan for situations reduces my stress level.

      4. Try not to dwell on how things ‘used to be’. This is going to go on for a while and all the wishful thinking and tears I’ve shed over this won’t change it. Crying gives me a migraine anyway.

      And lastly: I’ve sent letters and cards to various friends and family to say nice things about them and say they are loved. Because there’s people I’ll never get a chance to say that to again because of this virus and I’ll regret that I didn’t say those things to the end of my days.

      TL:DR : Do whatever I can to keep myself from going stark raving bonkers.

      3.

      1. Random commenter*

        Those all sound like excellent coping mechanisms. I’m so sorry you’ve had such a rough year. Please keep taking care of yourself, and finding ways to connect with those you love.

      2. Reba*

        Yes to the Facebook cull! Several family members still follow another relative (whom I never followed in the first place) who is being obnoxious in every way about current events, and like… Who is better for knowing about this??

        #3 is also great — as a strategy for managing anxiety in general, and also for just observing in what new ways we are wearing our stresses* and how we will deal. We need new coping mechanisms.

        *Stress showing up in things that aren’t even covid related: spouse is now much quicker to anger at bad drivers out on the road (to be fair, they are legion). My procrastinating is way worse than this time last year.

      3. Llama face!*

        At the risk of digressing:
        If you don’t mind me asking, what *is* your plan for something like #3?
        At this point I’ve been trying to avoid the situation entirely by becoming a pseudo vampire (only going out for essentials very early before the sun rises or late at night since that’s when the stores are emptiest) but of course that isn’t always possible.

        1. Keymaster of Gozer*

          I’m a self-described ‘corporate goth’ and me and the husband unit are very solitary people so we don’t go out much during the day. But my plan for that specific situation is:

          Immediately step away from the situation if possible. Use my walking stick to clear a path if necessary.
          Say clearly and loudly ‘do not cough on other people, that’s revolting!’
          If it’s a queue for say entering a shop, try to get the attention of shop staff to ensure they are aware that there’s a potential spreader.

          In the 2 incidents where I’ve had to use this, the first one got the guy politely removed from the premises and told to stay away. The second one rather escalated after I’d left the store but that guy was shouting racial slurs and qanon stuff by that point and they were calling the police. I’m not sticking around when that goes on!

      4. Anono-me*

        Thank you for sharing your plans. Sensible and compassionate plans from sensible people help me resist the urge to order a ginormous super soaker and use it to maintain social distancing while screaming things like “What’s the matter, it’s just a little water! ”

        I’m going to start writing letters to friends and family and also to people who touched my life in meaningful ways, like former teachers and coworkers.

        1. Keymaster of Gozer*

          Seriously, do the letters thing. I’ve heard back from several people that getting a card basically saying ‘I care about you, you’re lovely’ helped with their isolation depression.

          I wrote a letter to each of my dead friends, and sent it to their parents so they could have a record of how much their daughters meant to their friends. (Did ask the family first if that was okay).

          Invested in a new fountain pen too.

      5. Tired of Covid-and People*

        I’ve definitely lost faith in a lot of things, especially the US political system. I curtail news watching to help with the anger and despair.

        1. Keymaster of Gozer*

          That’s why I read the virology and immunology papers, the work done on the vaccines is not only top tier brilliance but it’s a real concrete hope for an end to this pandemic. Makes me feel positively when I read what my former virologists are up to.

          (I switched careers from virology to IT a long time ago. In hindsight I wish I’d stayed)

    5. Thankful for AAM*

      Those are all really good points!
      I have and will continue to:
      1. not watch the news – skimming the headlines of google news and a little BBC is enough for me (I’m in the US).
      2. stay off social media (and I was a very big user)
      3. Crochet! Its meditation for me. And I joined some crochet alongs to have projects that I did not plan and to be with other people with a shared interest.
      4. assume everyone has COVID and I just have to do the best I can to protect myself. We order a lot online.
      5. Ignore other people’s COVID related behavior. I cannot fix it so I just focus on myself. After lots of reading, my spouse and I wear a good mask and a face shield everywhere we go and try not to go anywhere but work for me and grocery store for him. And f0llow other good practices like hand washing.
      6. take things in small chunks of time – if I think 9 more months, its stressful. If I think here is my plan till early January, through the holidays, it is much more manageable.

      It’s my job to tell people to put on their masks and the best wording I have found is, “oh, your nose has come uncovered,” or “oh, your mask has come off.” Said in a the same discrete tone I would if their penis was hanging out and OF COURSE they would cover it. Only one person argued, the rest look like they want to but don’t quite know how to since I was “helpful” instead of arguing myself.

    6. The Gollux, Not a Mere Device*

      I’m deliberately not thinking too far ahead, except for making medical appointments and having ordered plants to be shipped in April (which would still be useful even if I could go to a garden shop myself by then). So I focus on “I’ll email Phil and ask if they’re delivering this weekend, they might not because Christmas” and “It’s time to get more eggs” rather than “I want this to be over so I can comfortably get on the T and go to Tosci’s” or how much longer it will be until I can see my mother.

    7. Chaordic One*

      I’m trying extra hard to be good to myself and my friends and family. For me it means making the effort to get enough sleep and eating right and getting enough exercise. I’ve been talking with friends on the phone more often now, instead of vising in person. We have long 2 or 3 hour conversations.

      I’m finding the exercise thing especially difficult right now because I really don’t want to leave my house. I seem to have become a bit agoraphobic since the pandemic hit. Of course I’m wearing a mask when I leave and constantly washing my hands and using hand sanitizer.

      I’m also trying to redo some of my organizing and decluttering. I’ve really gotten into “Swedish Death Cleaning.” The only bad thing is that the charities where I might usually donate things are all overwhelmed with donations right now so I have some things boxed up and ready to send, but no where to send them.

    8. Rainy*

      We’ve been rearranging our apartment, and we’ve gotten a lot more, better storage solutions. We’re trying to make more of the space we have and make it easier to exist in our home. We’ve also been going through our stuff and culling, which is really nice. I find that feeling like my immediate surroundings are orderly and appealing has helped my mental state a lot, considering that I work from home and don’t really leave the house.

      Other than that, just sort of keeping on. I try to avoid the news as much as possible while not living under a rock. I stay off Facebook. For other reasons I’ve really been limiting contact (ESPECIALLY incidental social media contact) with my in-laws, and I find that it’s being super helpful because it’s just so important to keep my incidental stress low. I have asthma (I found out in January of 2020) and my major exacerbation is stress, so keeping my stress level very low is super important for my lung health.

  17. Professor Plum*

    Amazon Echo: is this a helpful personal assistant, an intrusive listening device, or somewhere in between? For those who enjoy an Amazon echo, what are some of your favorites ways to use it?

    1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      Mostly what I do with mine is play music and audiobooks, schedule the smart lights to turn on and off at my convenience (my Christmas lights are scheduled to turn on at 3pm, she shuts off all the downstairs lights at midnight, etc) and she’s a doorbell chime – my dogs go bananas if the doorbell has an actual bell, but they don’t care if she says “someone is at the front door.” The one in my office also has a screen so I can check the front porch camera.

      I personally think the stuff about “omg it’s listening to me” is kinda silly, myself, but I also just found out that my husband occasionally has irrational concerns (his words) about someone using the smart plug on the Christmas lights to hack into our network and … do something, he doesn’t know what. I dunno. I’m the type who’s quite ready to have a cellular data connection jacked straight into my brain. I am also scrupulously polite to both Alexa and Siri, so in the event of the robot uprising they’ll hopefully remember that I always said please and thank you. Mostly, I’m just not interested in worrying about it because I have about six thousand things that are higher on my radar and having it is more of a convenience than a problem.

    2. Dwight Schrute*

      I really like our echos. I use it for lights, music sometimes, alarms, reminders, and timers! It’s definitely convenient. I’ll also ask questions like the weather, what x plus x is, who’s the lead in what movie, etc.

    3. BRR*

      I’ve had an echo for years now and am still choosing to be ignorant on the privacy concerns (for now) for how much I use. I use it for the lights, I listen to npr every morning, as a sound machine at night, the weather, a timer, the shopping list, and occasionally music while cooking and cleaning.

    4. Courageous cat*

      Right now I don’t have any smart home stuff so it’s kind of useless. The number one thing I use it the most for is a timer. The second thing I use it for is playing music when I’m doing stuff around the house (I use Pandora on my TV for when I’m just sitting around).

      It can be useful to ask the time or the weather when you’re rushing around doing stuff.

      Past that, idk if it was intensely worth it. I plan on getting Philips Hue lights at some point which will hopefully round out how much it gets used.

      1. Courageous cat*

        Oh shit! I totally forgot about this, I haven’t done it in so long!!! Thanks for reminding me: Jeopardy and Question of the Day, if you like trivia.

        I loved to put on Jeopardy while I was doing my makeup so I had something to distract me. Holy crap I can’t believe I just stopped doing it one day and never thought of it again.

    5. I'm A Little Teapot*

      It IS an intrusive listening device. It can be other things as well, but there’s no getting around the privacy concerns. If you want one that’s fine but you need to be ok with the downsides as well.

    6. Double A*

      Everything people say it’s useful for I find are things that are super easy for me to just…do, mostly with my smart phone. Timers? Music? Podcasts? Weather? I just do that all with my smartphone. I prefer to type commands and am constantly annoyed when I accidentally hit my “assistant” button (I don’t enable voice commands).

      I avoid all smart home stuff because they seem like they’re just more stuff to break and not work and render products useless sooner than necessary. The conveniences they promise in exchange for giving up unknown privacy and information never seem like a good trade off. This is also a reason I will never do a DNA testing service.

      Google is the omnipresent tech giant I’ve opted to sell my soul to; the conveniences they offer me genuinely make me life easier, even though I don’t really know what I’m giving up in return. Amazon probably knows plenty about me, but it doesn’t need to niggle into everything else. Maybe I can’t avoid selling my soul to a tech giant, but I can try to limit how many.

      I’m 37 years old and came.of age with the internet, so I’m not just someone who is curmudgeonly about technology.

      1. Dan*

        In reality, pretty much all tech is a convenience item more than a creator of new functionality. But then sometimes the increased convenience of Old Task X saves you time that you can use for something else.

        If you’re avoiding smart home stuff in general, then I don’t think you’ll find smart home assistants to be of much use. To me, the power of the smart home assistant comes when you have lots of smart home things. I have lights, a thermostat, and speakers all tied to my phone. It can be really annoying to thumb through a bunch of apps on my phone (assuming I have it on my person at that particular moment).

        1. Liz*

          Agreed! I have a smart thermostat which was recently installed. I CAN operate it from my phone, but I genuinely find it easier to just get up and walk over to the thing than to dig my phone out from the couch cushions, locate the app, wait for it to load, and remember which button I need to press. I can see how the app or a smart device would be handy if I were less mobile, but as it stands I’d rather take a short walk.

          We have acquired an Echo Dot for Christmas. So far we have managed to get it to play music from spotify, with rather mixed results. We had to create an additional household spotify account, duplicate all our playlists, and even then we found Alexa only plays the correct one about a third of the time. I think I might get more reliable results by just streaming spotify straight from my phone to the speaker, if indeed I can do that.

      2. General von Klinkerhoffen*

        I don’t use a voice assistant because I don’t hear well. We also note that when Google had a major system failure this week, a lot of users suddenly couldn’t turn on their lights / doorbells didn’t work / etc etc.

        We do have some integrated systems at home, but all app controlled. It’s going to be interesting when we move house (should be early 2021) and they *all* have to be recalibrated. The new house is already hard-networked and set up for the system, but you have to pair everything up.

    7. Bibliovore*

      Helpful to me.
      I mostly use in the kitchen.
      Listen to the local MPR station. Play music when I am cleaning. Loud Rock and roll. Play podcasts when I am cooking like Fresh Air or On Being.
      I sometimes ask for odd things like . Alexa Meow.

    8. Dan*

      Things I do regularly:

      1. Control the lights in any room (and shut off the whole apartment when I go to bed)
      2. Control the temp. For some reason, I find myself picky (and inconsistent) about the temp I want in the room, so I change the temp one or two degrees fairly regularly. Yes, I have a programmable thermostat, but hey…
      3. Check the time (I don’t have any wall clocks for whatever reason, I’m not sure why)
      4. Get the weather/forecast
      5. Set timers/alarms. For timers, multiple timers can be set with names, which can be helpful if you’re doing a lot in the kitchen.
      6. Grocery list. The Echo is synched up with an app on my phone, so when I run out of staples in the kitchen, it can be convenient to make a note of it when I toss the bottle.

    9. Disco Janet*

      I love ours! I don’t usually have my phone on me, so it’s super helpful to just be able to say, “Alexa, what’s the weather like today?” as I browse through my closet. Or set a timer hands free. Or turn off our bedroom light without having to get out of bed. Or tell it what song I want to hear. Or to turn the TV off when I can’t find the remote or don’t feel like walking across the room to pick it up.

      Wow, this sounds incredibly lazy of me. I’m okay with that, haha.

    10. PX*

      I see it as a helpful personal assistant and an intrusive listening device. BBC had a great article about Amazon and how they got to where they are and what they do with your data; if you search for ‘Amazon: how Bezos build his data machine’ it should be the top hit.

      Personally I’m not a fan of smart devices in general, mainly because its starts with them being useful and then turn into an essential service and who controls that? The best example of this is WeChat in China – and this article – again from BBC – about what happens when it basically becomes another element of oppression. “China social media: WeChat and the Surveillance State”

    11. DarthVelma*

      I love ours – we have 4 – kitchen, bedroom, office, and front room. I use it for alarms and timers, to check the weather, to check my calendar for the day, to play music and podcasts, all the stuff others have mentioned. I really like asking it for terrible jokes and having it “meow” at my cat.

      But the two functionalities I find most useful are:
      1. Using it for my shopping list – I can literally just tell it to add things whenever I think of them since almost every room has an Echo in it. Plus I can add items in the phone app or online.
      2. Using it as an intercom – I don’t have to holler when I want to ask my partner a question from a different room. I can just use the “drop in” function and talk to him.

      1. Dwight Schrute*

        For the shopping list- can more than one person have access to the actual list? We use google docs so we can add whatever whenever we think of it and can both see it, BUT, I’d love to add in an echo capability so when my hands are dirty or I don’t have my phone on me I can add something as I think of it

    12. Professor Plum*

      Thanks for all the replies—appreciate getting a broad spectrum of insights—this is such a great place for that!

  18. Sleep Number Mattress*

    Sleep numbers! Did you love it? Hate it? Has it held up? Good for a heavier person (250)? Hold up to adult extra curricular activities?

    Tell me all about your sleep number experience!

    1. Dwight Schrute*

      Ok so I don’t have a direct sleep number experience but my boyfriend manages a sleep lab and one of the labs he’s worked in had sleep numbers. He said he and patients didn’t like them because they felt almost comparable to an air mattress? Like you could feel it when it added or decreased the air to make it softer or firmer and it just wasn’t all that comfortable. I’ve never slept on one myself but I trusted him when we picked a new mattress last year. We went with a purple mattress and my parents subsequently also got a purple mattress and were all very happy with them!

    2. D3*

      I’ve only ever slept on one in a hotel, and it suuuucked. Lost a lot of firmness over the night, and when I had sunk in too far, I tried to add firmness in the middle of the night and it was LOUD!!!! and startled me and woke my partner, too.
      It was brand new, too. Hotel had just opened and a family member was the manager and had invited lots of family and friends to stay for free the first night and post reviews. They asked us to specifically mention the amazing beds they’d spent so much on. I talked up the great breakfast and didn’t say anything about the beds. They asked me about it. It was…awkward.

    3. TextHead*

      I tried one at a home show and it feeling like an air mattress is a good description. A nice one, but still…

    4. Generic Name*

      I slept on one in a hotel, and it was okay, I guess. I know a couple who got one because each partner had radically different preferences as to softness level of the mattress to the point where they were considering sleeping apart. I don’t think I’d get one unless it was the only way my spouse and I could share a bed.

      1. Artemesia*

        we had one at a vacation rental and it felt like an air mattress to me — so nope.

        We had a pricey department store mattress that was hills and valleys within the year. Replaced it with a casper on line mattress about 3 years ago and it has been super comfortable and held up so far. The only drawback is you have to get rid of the old one. I live in a high rise and we were able to basically bribe the local garbage guys to take it away.

  19. Laura H.*

    Little joys thread

    What brought you joy this week?

    Mountain Cedar pollen is playing dirty by hitting early this year so my little joy is allergy medicine that works well for me. And also I got two chocolate oranges this year.

    Please share your joys, I smile reading them.

    1. fposte*

      Neighbors did a ring-and-run drop at my door last night with a bag of spiced nuts and a nice holiday note—I suspect they did it for the whole block and personalized everybody’s note. It was pitch black out and they were gone by the time I got to the door and saw a little ribboned bag, so I just yelled “Thank you, elves!” into the night. I heard them answer and thought I heard some jingling bells, and I think they may have jingle-belled up the kid’s stroller.

    2. Professor Plum*

      There were several friends who reached out to me with Christmas greetings before I reached out to them. It was nice not to be the initiator yesterday—and made me smile.

    4. The Other Dawn*

      I bought an Atari Flashback for me and my husband and we spent some time playing it yesterday. What a blast from the past! Though I have to admit, we aren’t nearly as good as we used to be. LOL

    5. Victoria, Please*

      I started setting up my 2021 bullet journal. That’s always quite a delight. Also my husband got each of us one of those five-year one sentence a day journals so we can document our next stage together. Aww.

      1. Crafty*

        Could you elaborate on what setting up a bullet journal involves? I’ve heard of these but don’t know how to start.

    6. Girasol*

      We went out in the front yard on solstice evening with the spotting scope and astronomical binoculars and saw the rings of Saturn and three of Jupiter’s moons during the conjunction. Then we came back in and had a Yule log for dessert. It felt especially festive.

    7. Llama face!*

      My landlords (who I share a house with) usually give me a bookstore gift certificate for xmas each year since they know I love to read. This year, since they knew I haven’t been going out for any nonessential shopping, they switched it up and got me a gift certificate to a local tea and coffee merchant that I frequent. And they made sure to let me know that the store does contactless delivery and curbside pickup so I wouldn’t even have to go inside if I didn’t feel comfortable*. It was so sweet and thoughtful of them.

      *I actually already knew this, but it was kind of them to clarify those details for my comfort.

      1. tangerineRose*

        I’ve ordered books from Powell’s Bookstore in Oregon. They have free shipping if you order a certain dollar amount or more.

    8. Beth Jacobs*

      I read the short story ‘Unpleasantness at Bludleigh Court’ by P.G. Wodehouse. It’s a humorous take on the gap between old British nobility and their younger offspring who prefer art and humanism. Lovely!

    9. Lcsa99*

      My silly husband got me sparkle syrup! Its maple syrup with edible glitter! Its so ridiculous but it definitely put a sparkle in my day

      1. Disco Janet*

        Omg edible glitter – that sounds amazing! And like a Tom Haverford creation (if you watch Parks and Rec.)

        1. saf*

          It’s made from a vegetable gelatin, at least the kind I get at the baking supply store is. And it is fun!

    10. GoryDetails*

      Some Boxing Day joys for me (I’m in the US and we don’t celebrate it here, but I’m an Anglophile, so here we are): I got a box of hobby supplies in the mail from a friend who’s scaling down and is no longer very active in that hobby – but I’m still active, and the supplies are very welcome indeed. And another friend stopped by (cue mini-panic from me, as the house is a mess and a half, but friends can pretend not to see that, right?) and gave me a nifty cook-set – small silicone trays that fit neatly into a sheet pan, to simplify portioning and/or making smaller amounts.

      And in cat-related small joys, while my friend was here, one of the cats entertained us by avidly hunting a piece of onion skin all round the kitchen floor! [OK, I’m easily entertained.]

    11. Elspeth McGillicuddy*

      New shoes! I bought fancy new shoes on pre-order months ago, and they are finally here. I love them as much as I thought I would. They are very simple lines but still flashy and quite unusual.

    12. Might be Spam*

      I’ve been dancing with a folk group in another state for the last 6 months on Zoom. We decided to design our own t-shirts and mine finally came today. And it fits!

    13. Enter_the_Dragonfly*

      My toddler said ‘I love you’ off his own bat for the first time this week. I was a living heart-eyes emoji for hours and it still makes me feel cozy inside.

      1. RebelwithMouseyHair*

        aw that reminds me of a NY party with our kids. They were playing Boney M’s “Sunny” and my son misunderstood, singing “Mummy what’s so true I love you” which just melted my heart. It was about 24 years ago and still makes me feel all fuzzy.

    14. Not Australian*

      Discovering that I’d received a Christmas card from my 95 year old godmother whom I haven’t seen for a very long time; she’s in residential care and I was worried that she may have passed away and they didn’t have my details to let me know. (The envelope was in someone else’s handwriting, but she’d managed to sign the card inside despite failing eyesight.)

      This is important because I’ve reached a point in life where I’m running out of family members, especially those older than me; I have a Just No Uncle and a whole raft of second cousins – some of whom I’ve only met once or twice in my life – and my son and his children, and live a very long way from all of them. Seeing my godmother again is now top of my priority list for 2021, though, Covid permitting.

    15. PX*

      Listening to cricket commentary is something I generally only tend to do around Christmas – usually when I’m in an airport somewhere on my way to see family. Not in an airport this year, but there is still something extremely soothing about listening to it. The phrase ‘dulcet tones’ tends to come to mind.

    16. RebelwithMouseyHair*

      I hit on the idea of getting second-hand soft toys for my dog, and filled a big tote bag with them for just €3! He will be able to rip them apart to his heart’s content. It’s the best way to keep him distracted while I concentrate on my work.

  20. Dog and cat fosterer*

    I got a puppy for Christmas!! Rescue is unpredictable, and the right one showed up this week, so I scooped her up immediately and can’t believe how lucky I am. I have been waiting for a golden retriever pup for the last year, as they have been so rare with covid. I only got her because I’ve been a volunteer for many years and was lined up to get the next retriever, and if pup had been posted in public there would have been hundreds if not thousands of applications. All my fosters this summer and fall were the side-effect of a pandemic pup, specifically older puppies with serious separation anxiety, so this one is an absolute dream.

    I want to do more than the traditional training, and am wondering if anyone has suggestions. I know people who do agility, Rally-O (rally obedience), tricks, and scent training. There is also therapy work, where we visit others for an hour or two per week, although that is mostly dependent on personality in a couple years. I will introduce pup to new places and people, so that she continues to be confident and friendly, and hopefully she can be a therapy dog when old enough. I am tempted by scent training as they have such a good nose, as she came running into the kitchen when she smelled bacon despite never having tasted it.

    Do you do special training with your dog? Do you recommend it?

    2. Elspeth McGillicuddy*

      One game that we play with our dogs is “Find it!”. Dog sits and stays in another room (close the door if they aren’t solid on stay) while you hide a small treat. Release the dog and tell her “Find it! Find it, Flora”. The first time, you ‘hide’ it in the middle of the floor, then gradually work your way up to inside a shoe or tucked on top of a drawer pull.

      I dog sat a beagle last year and this game was a lot of fun because she got very, very good at it. Took her only a few minutes to find the treat the first time I hid in the basement instead of the main floor. I suspect a retriever would be similarly skilled. You could also probably swap out for different objects that she has to find.

      We haven’t done much specialized training. It’s more games we play with them. My dad usually has some sort of routine that he goes through while feeding supper. At one point the dogs had to wait for the “Amen” at the end of the blessing for the human’s supper before they could eat.

      1. Dog and cat fosterer*

        I love beagles and their noses. She probably was smart enough to know where you had walked to hide it, based on the strength of your smell! I can imagine that she loved your game, and you are so good for having played with her. I do something similar with my dog, where I hide food in the house, although it’s a relatively small bungalow so I run out of hiding places. Yet the game is still exciting and enjoyed :)

        I like to do little games too. I make mine wait on a ‘drool mat’ which is just a small mat that would typically go at the front door, and the dog has to sit on it while the food is made ready. It doesn’t take long to scoop it out, but there can be a lot of drool very fast. Only when I say so is the dog allowed to eat. There are probably other games but they are littles ones that we work on over time, where a bad habit needs to improve or they have a fun trick that we want to repeat on command. A few months ago it was “Speak” as a way of guiding barking into more controlled behavior. Thanks for the ideas!

    3. Thankful for AAM*

      I did what they called “nose work” at a local dog club/vet. It was like dogs that sniff for drugs but they are eventually trained to sniff for something like eucalyptus. There are competitions but we just wanted something for our dog to do. We all loved it and I still do a version at home every so often.

      1. Dog and cat fosterer*

        Me too at home! I place kibbles in a modified kong and hide it, or hide the minty scent container that I have and reward for finding it. Easy and fun things to do at home. I’m interested in doing it more actively, not competitively but in larger areas that would be more challenging and hopefully fun. Glad you enjoyed it!

    4. Anono-me*

      Depending on where you are located and your level of physicality you and Goldie might enjoy hunting for shed antlers.

      1. Dog and cat fosterer*

        That’s a neat idea! Sadly the older dog has proven that there is more junkfood hidden in bushes than anything else ;)

        I will keep that idea in mind, the idea that if pup does well with scent then we could ask about local things that need finding.

    5. Seeking Second Childhood*

      I’ve mentioned this before, but I’ll mention it again because the author I know has done a lot of what you mention and her training facility offers online classes during the pandemic. And she has well mannered happy dogs.
      “Play Your Way to Good Manners: Getting the Best Behavior from Your Dog Through Sports, Games, and Tricks”
      Kate Naito, Sarah Westcott

    6. Dwight Schrute*

      Hi! Yes we do nose work and have dabbled in rally with our dog! It’s a ton of fun and really helps build your relationship. It’s something we both love doing and it’s been great to see her confidence grow since we’ve started doing it.

      1. Dwight Schrute*

        Forgot to add we do tricks with our girl as well! She has her intermediate trick title and we plan to do some ORTs this year so we can start competing in nose work through NACSW. I’d love to do agility or FCAT with her but she’s got some arthritis and hip issues to be mindful of so we stick to the less physical dog sports.

        1. Dwight Schrute*

          And yes I absolutely recommend them! Your dog will be thankful for a job to do and it makes your life a million times easier when they have their needs met. We started after working with our local trainer (who I now work for) to address some behavioral issues with our dog as she was a rescue and had some reactivity, separation anxiety, and stranger danger issues. She is a totally different dog now and we’re so proud of the progress she’s made. She enjoys life now

          1. Dog and cat fosterer*

            That’s such great news for your dog! I foster, and get a lot of dogs with mild problems. Mostly young adults with no manners or training, so a couple weeks of consistent training works wonders and then we match them with an experienced home that enjoys training. I also get dogs with mild anxiety or mild aggression, where I work to build up confidence and teach them that bad behavior gets them a walk in the opposite direction whereas good behavior gets chicken. So I adopt the easy dogs, so they can be good influencers and I can take the time with fosters who need more time.

            Tricks is the one that is least familiar to me. I know you can do it while young as one of my fosters (a herding breed where I had the litter until they were 8 weeks old), he was doing incredibly complex tricks at 6 months old! His adopter loved training and he soaked up every minute of it. She sent me a video and you could see the pup’s joy while waiting for the next command. I’m not that intense but want to build a good relationship!

            Thanks so much for the suggestions.

    7. Dear liza dear liza*

      With my first labrador, I dabbled in LOTS of activities to find one we both liked. She didn’t enjoy obedience or rally, she was a bit too big for flyball, and she wanted to chew rather than catch frisbees. We tried agility a couple of times and in one class, it all clicked for her. We competed locally for a few years. I’m now doing agility with my current lab. I love it because it’s structured play, with goals. LizaPup loves it SO much. It’s really good at strengthening the dog-owner bond.

      All the activities require solid commands, so you can always work on that while deciding on a direction. (For anything with jumps, you have to wait until the dog is two.)

      Retrievers are awesome! Enjoy your new buddy.

      1. Dog and cat fosterer*

        Thank you! Completely agreed that the fundamentals need to be solid, so I let her settle in for 3 days and this morning we learned Down for breakfast, and in a few days we’ll work on Stand. Puppy Pushups, as every meal is a reward for good work.

        I was thinking the same, to try many things and see which one got the most happiness. I joke about being the dog owner that overschedules their pup with a different thing each day of the week, but I think we’ll find a middle ground and try a bunch over several months.

        I wasn’t picky on a specific breed, but older dog is a retriever mutt foster fail, and most loves the retrievers in the neighborhood, so that decision was made for me! It’s a nice balance for someone who enjoys training but is too lazy for a herder or poodle!

  21. Teapot Translator*

    I’ve started listening to the audiobook “Catherine the Great: Portrait of a Woman” by Robert K. Massie. It’s interesting!
    Any recommendations for (audio)books about historically important women?
    Also, what are you reading now?

    1. Girasol*

      I am reading 1984 because I hadn’t read it since I was a kid and thought I might get more out of it now. Now that I am deep into it I suspect that I did Cliff’s Notes as a kid because I don’t remember any of it. As a lover of dystopian stories I am finding it unexpectedly dreadful but I am trying to slog through because it is part of our cultural literature.

    2. Reba*

      I don’t know about audio editions, but I’ve enjoyed biographies of Christina of Sweden (Buckley) and Emilie du Châtelet (Zinsser).

    3. GoryDetails*

      Am reading The Merry Rise of Luke Skywalker, another in Ian Doescher’s marvelous series of “Star Wars” films re-told in the form of Shakespearian plays, with delightful attention to rhyme schemes, different forms for different characters, fidelity to the films but with some sneaky nods to other media included… I adore the book series, and while I haven’t seen the final film yet due to the whole not-going-to-movie-theaters thing, I’m enjoying the book. [That said, some plot elements tell me that I will NOT like the way the movie turns out – but that doesn’t mean I won’t see it eventually.]

      In a more seasonal vein, I’m reading Agatha Christie short stories in the MIDWINTER MURDER anthology; it includes a couple of tales featuring the Mysterious Mr. Quin, my favorite of Christie’s characters.

    4. Disco Janet*

      Sounds interesting! I don’t have any recommendations for that one as I tend to read more fiction, but I just got Big Summer by Jennifer Weiner for Christmas and am looking forward to starting it. More of a light read, but that’s exactly what I need right now for de-stressing during my time off work!

    5. RebelwithMouseyHair*

      Stefan Zweig’s Marie Antoinette is very moving, and a balanced portrait rather than a depiction of evil.

      1. RebelwithMouseyHair*

        And Antonia Fraser’s Mary Queen of Scots is also a great read.

        And I’m currently reading Bill Brysson’s “The Body” which is both funny and fascinating like most of what he has written.

  22. Mini baking*

    Does anyone know of recipes for tiny or mini baking? I’m looking to bake maybe 1 or 2 super small cakes or cookies. (Maybe 1 to 2 inches in diameter)

    Most recipes I find are for small desserts that yield far more than 1 or 2 servings.

    I bought a tiny baking set which cake with a few recipes but looking forward to trying more.

    1. Professor Plum*

      I like recipes for mug cakes to make a single serving when I want a sweet treat without having dessert in my house for days. Perhaps that kind of recipe would help you proportions that would work in your tiny baking set?

    2. fposte*

      I suspect the big problem is eggs—much of that kind of baking requires them, and most recipes aren’t going to involve subdivisions of eggs. If you’re okay with subdividing them (beat them together first and either measure the result or use online guides to average egg volume, and work from there) you can scale down those recipes, or look for recipes that either eggless or use powdered egg and scale those.

      2. Mephyle*

        Another solution is an eggless cake. You can find these if you look for recipes for a basic vegan cake. They usually have flour, sugar, baking soda, milk, oil, and vinegar (apart from flavourings; vanilla or whatever, depending on the cake).
        It’s useful to know the divisions of a cup for dividing up a recipe. 1 cup = 16 tablespoons. 1/4 cup = 4 tablespoons. 1 tablespoon = 3 teaspoons. Therefore 1 cup = 48 teaspoons.

    3. Anon5775*

      There are cookbooks about this. They are called Small Batch Baking and they typically make 2 small cakes or 8 cookies, etc. but yes, you need to beat the egg and then use like 1 Tbsp of beaten egg, so it gets a little tricky but then you don’t have 4 dozen cookies staring at you!

    4. BRR*

      Maybe divide a cupcake recipe? If it’s about not baking too much for one person, many baked goods freeze well. I often freeze balls of cookie dough to just bake one or two.

      1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

        Ditto — I keep at least three kinds of frozen cookie dough balls in my freezer at all times, and very rarely bake more than a dozen at a time.

      2. Seeking Second Childhood*

        You can also freeze the raw egg to bake with later. Labelling quantity is the challenge. Mom used to eat egg whites for breakfast and freeze the yolks until she had enough for a pound cake. (Her way of keeping track of eggs involved writing something on the calendar. Don’t do this if you’re not the only cook in the house.)

    5. RagingADHD*

      Ann Reardon of “How to Cook That” on YouTube does tiny baking. IDK if she posts recipes, but she might. Or the algorithm might serve you some if you watch hers.

    6. Damn it, Hardison!*

      Iamafoodblogdotcom has a bunch of small batch baking recipes. You can find them by searching the site for “small batch.” Mostly sweets, but there are a couple of savory items.

    7. pieforbreakfast*

      I have Diane Lane’s cookbook ” Dessert for Two” for this reason- everything is made in small bakeware (6″ pie plate, 6: cake pan, bread loaf pan, etc…), or like 12 cookies. Gets my baking itch done without having huge results.

    8. AcademiaNut*

      One possibility is icebox cookies – the batches are normal sized, but you roll the dough into a log, freeze it, and then you can cut off a few pieces to bake when you want them.

      One issue I can see with really tiny batches is that you need a certain volume of butter to beat it properly and many cookie and cake recipes start with beating the butter and sugar until fluffy. I’d suggest looking for oil based cookie or cake recipes. You’d still have the egg issue, but that’s messy but doable. Try one bowl cake recipes – these are cakes that call for oil rather than butter and are mixed in a single bowl – and then scale to one or two servings.

      The other thing I’d try to start with is going with a mix, and using either powdered eggs or an egg substitute (google egg substitute for cake mixes). That way you can mix up a small amount and make a cupcake sized cake when you wan it, without having to fiddle with very tiny amounts.

    11. No Tribble At All*

      I have the America’s Test Kitchen cooking for 2 cookbook which has a nice dessert section. They use mini cake pans (6”) and size down the recipes.

  23. Courageous cat*

    Combining finances! For those of you who live with a partner who makes more than you (or the opposite), how do you deal with this?

    For reference, I am considering moving in with my bf but he makes… well over six figures, and I make $50k. I have never lived in a situation like this so I am completely lost as to what the most fair way to deal with money is, honestly.

    We are definitely going to combine them to some degree, rather than keep them separate. He makes more than enough to afford it all on his own, and I can only afford a small fraction of his mortgage, so it makes sense – plus, we assume we’ll get married eventually. So I think what we’ve loosely planned on doing is: I give him 1 paycheck a month and he does whatever he wants with it, then the other paycheck I have each month is for my own spending money. I really want to have my own money so I never feel like I have to answer to a spouse/feel guilty for buying shoes or something. But then – how do we handle groceries, and stuff for the house? (What about stuff for the house that I specifically want so it’s KIND of a personal purchase, but he would benefit from?) What about if I have an expensive medical bill that I can’t pay on my own?

    Just curious any of your thoughts as to the nitty gritty/personal details of how you actually do this. Talking about money on this level is taboo enough that I can’t really get good answers from anyone I know.

    1. A313*

      If, for whatever reason, you two were to separate, if you aren’t married, it gets difficult to determine financials, especially if you’re moving into his home, which it sounds like you are. Not terribly romantic maybe, but consider meeting with an attorney/financial advisor beforehand. It can also be easier to discuss money with a neutral third party so there’s less emotion involved, and this can be with an eye towards of course you would want both of you to feel comfortable and taken care of no matter what the future holds. There are legal issues, possibly, if you’re paying part of the mortgage directly versus giving him money and he decides where to apply it, etc. Marriage has the advantage of creating a “contract” of sorts that can protect you both, where cohabitating takes some effort and knowledge. That’s not to say you should marry if you’re not ready (or ever if you don’t want to!), but that it’s good to understand what rights and obligations you both have under various circumstances.

      1. Courageous cat*

        Ha, conveniently, he is an attorney, not that that helps here necessarily.

        Well so, the thing is, I don’t really have any other money (my IRA will be separate) and I’m already paycheck-to-paycheck, so there wouldn’t really be much to separate, you know? If I moved out, I would just not give him more of my paychecks and go back to keeping both for myself again. To me, that seems like it would be a fairly straightforward move. Are you thinking of something I’m missing though?

        1. RagingADHD*

          There’s equity in the house. If you are helping pay the mortgage, you are permanently increasing the value of his asset. So if you break up, he is going to profit off your contribution in the future.

          Would you expect to walk away from that as a gift to him, or would you expect to get some of that value back? In a landlord situation, it’s business. But this is a relationship. What do you think is fair?

          Those are the kind of conversations you need to have, and TBH if he’s an attorney and isn’t initiating them, I am giving him remote side-eye.

          1. Courageous cat*

            Ooh shit, good point about the mortgage. I didn’t think about that at *all*. I mean, presumably he’ll use that money towards whatever – it could be bills, groceries, savings, you name it. I don’t have a way of knowing specifically what it goes towards. But that’s a fair point. I’m so used to renting it didn’t occur to me.

          2. Courageous cat*

            If instead he were to put the money in an “ours” account, aka, I have access to that too for groceries/house stuff/etc, that would presumably make it more fair, right? Then I just wouldn’t be paying his mortgage at all. (I’m unsure what the solution to that part would be, without yet being married).

        2. A313*

          Well, can you meet with a financial planner (who also knows law)? (Also, I don’t know what kind of law he practices, but as you pointed out, knowing one area of law doesn’t always help with others.). But I may be getting too far afield; no, I don’t have anything specific except that you might eventually feel a sense of some ownership over the house, for example, if you believe you are contributing to the mortgage (whether he uses those funds for the mortgage or something else), and what if you contribute to pricey improvements to the house, but he feels it came out of his money? What about paying for vacations? What if one of you loses your job for some period of time? What if, since it’s his home, he wants to invite his best friend/father to live there also because they need a place to stay? What if one of you needs to borrow money from the other in an emergency? I think it’s easier to decide some big things now because you both have each other’s interests at heart without daily and/or life complications yet that might color your view. And you will have a sense of “I contributed x dollars” that you might overestimate while he might underestimate and that can lead to subconscious beliefs about your respective contributions that play out in your relationship even if you’re still together and happy (unless you keep scrupulous records, which would be a drag). I’m not an attorney, but I would want to have a discussion and a written understanding from the start (that can change as your circumstances do), but definitely not everyone feels this way. And I have seen things play out badly for acquaintances and relatives, whether they were the higher earner or the homeowner, etc., all of whom felt things weren’t really fair in the end and spent too much time and emotional energy, which have really affected my view.

          1. Courageous cat*

            These are all great questions! And things I am totally confused about how to approach. But very very good point about the subconscious beliefs about our respective contributions.

            I am very lucky in that he has been endlessly generous with me throughout the course of our dating, so I am not as worried as I would have been if I had done this with, say, my last partner – but things still need to be hashed out.

            I appreciate your input.

        3. Steve A*

          There are many ways to look at this, and mine is different from the group that thinks both people should be building equity. I am in a long-term relationship where we both chose and moved into a home which only one of us owns, as one of us had the savings for a downpayment and the other didn’t want to deal with the effort of owning a home. We do a lot of things separately, so we aren’t typical, yet it works well for us. My partner pays me a monthly sum which is much less than would be paid for an equivalent rental unit, and I use it to pay household expenses other than the mortgage so it isn’t rent and I don’t claim it as I don’t want to do the income tax paperwork. If I did the paperwork then I would increase the monthly amount and pay off the mortgage faster, but I know that I’m lucky and I don’t need the money as we decided on a home that I could afford myself. I can afford all repairs and everything else as needed, although if he wants anything special then I would have him pay for it himself if it was expensive.

          We specifically aren’t married because he would immediately get half the home, and I am not willing to change this financial situation so we remain de facto.

    2. The Gollux, Not a Mere Device*

      “Fair” is a tricky concept when the starting points are uneven. At one point my partner and I divided household expenses relative to income–so, if he was making twice as much as I was, he paid 2/3 of the rent, utilities, etc., and I paid 1/3. Or you could aim for each having at least $X/month to spend on yourself, put into savings, etc.

      If you’re giving him one paycheck a month for household expenses, those expenses should include groceries, I think.

      One thing that might help on a practical level: set up a joint account for household expenses, which you each have a debit card for, and use that for groceries, the electric bill, etc.

      1. Courageous cat*

        That’s what I’m kind of thinking too: joint credit/debit card for common household stuff we buy.

        1. anon for this today*

          My spouse and I do this. For many years he made 6 figures (med) and I made more like what you make (ed). A joint account and separate accounts made it so that we never had to argue about money.

          Recently I switched out of my job that involved education people into a corporate position that gives me six figures as well. I realized when I switched how much the income difference had actually subconsciously stressed me out. I think sometimes I didn’t take risks in my career or, say, demand moves for better positions because I know the usual top salaries in such careers. This is not on spouse — he supported me through several moves — but it was also real. I don’t know in particular what I’d make as a “lesson” out of this. Just, I guess, be aware about how you’re thinking about things.

          1. anon for this today*

            To clarify, not a joint credit card alone but a joint checking account into which we direct-deposited a percentage of our paychecks.

        2. Otter Dance*

          Speaking as someone who had to split up commingled finances, I endorse a joint household /bank/ account but not never no how no way on earth the credit card.

          My ex bought a lot of tools for his trade. I have no idea whether they were all genuinely necessary or not, but that isn’t my issue here.

          He not only cut into the funds available for general expenses, he ran up a lot of debt. Some was in his own name — not my problem. Some was on a credit card issued in my name on which I made him an authorized signer. I was also an authorized signer on his Visa card, but I only used it for joint expenses which were paid promptly.

          His suggestion when we split up was that we would each be responsible for our own debt. He told everyone what a total money-obsessed b—— I was when I took a cash advance on HIS account to pay off the tool balance on MY card. And I felt that I dodged a bullet.

          So, however you divvy up the expenses, do not open joint credit accounts nor co-sign debt. Making a lot doesn’t mean he doesn’t spend just as much or more. Also, be sure you reconcile the household bank account together every month, to know where the joint funds are going and that all the joint expenses are actually being paid. Trust but verify.

    3. fposte*

      There are a bunch of different ways that household manage shared money, so I think you’re smart to look for a variety of examples and then see which of them might work for you.

      I’m a fan of the Yours, Mine, and Ours approach with the Ours determined by percentage of income rather than flat dollars. (I would say that that one paycheck isn’t being paid to him, it’s going into the “Ours” category.) They can be literal separate accounts or concepts, but especially in the early days of commingling I like them trackable. So it sounds like you’re putting 50% of your income into Ours, which would mean he does the same, and groceries and house stuff comes out of the Ours account. Occasional big expenses like medical bills can be negotiated individually. This means each of you has money you can spend without having to consult the other and that you’re not locked into half of a mortgage payment for a house you couldn’t afford and didn’t choose.

      This works best if you also create a household and individual budget, which I consider an additional plus. I also recommend that you stay flexible about whatever method you choose and be willing to suggest switching up if things change or you find it doesn’t work for you. Money handling is very individual, and you’re also the more vulnerable party here, so you should be able to find a way that doesn’t disproportionately strain you.

      1. Courageous cat*

        This is good input, thank you. I am 100% flexible to changing it as we go along because I think that a lot will come up we didn’t think about.

        The last sentence is a good point. He can already afford everything he has so me adding to his funds (or the “our” funds) only helps him, and I want to make sure I’m in a place where I feel like I’m being helped too – aka, not losing money by doing this. I think we’re pretty close to there, but it’s tricky.

        1. Pocket Mouse*

          I strongly encourage you to re-examine your framing of where each dollar sits. As fposte points out, in your original post you mentioned giving him money for shared expenses- in the Yours/Mine/Ours approach, this isn’t your money becoming his, it’s your contribution to a shared fund for shared expenses *that he also contributes to*. The money contributed is then shared between you. It sounds like you might be having trouble conceptualizing a pot of money that is shared. Is there anything else that you might be having trouble conceptualizing as shared, such as household tasks, organizational/emotional labor, or simply existing and having a footprint in the household? How might your feelings and patterns around each of these be altered by considering finances, or other assets, ‘his’ rather than ‘ours’?

          1. Courageous cat*

            Hmm, I don’t think I have trouble conceptualizing much, but your point is well noted. This conclusion was a conversation borne out of: I don’t want to manage the money, because I’m bad at it and don’t like doing it, so just take my money and take that responsibility off my plate. Put it towards wherever needs it the most. I’m still not even anywhere near close to paying half our house expenses with that money and I get to live in a really beautiful place and have more spending money on top of that, so it’s felt reasonably fair to me.

            (I realized, of course, way too late that I left out what is likely to be a crucial detail here – that he was going to pay off all my debt ($15k) when I moved in bc I’m drowning in interest, and that the half a paycheck was going to be me paying him back over the course of many months. But we had planned to continue with that even after the debt was paid off, so then you have the situation we’re addressing now.)

            Either way, I am fortunate that I do not have any concerns whatsoever about him trying to screw me over, so I’m sure any changes I propose to this plan would be well-received. Thank you for the input!

            1. ThatGirl*

              Just make sure you always have access to your own money and potentially even a separate account. I am sure he’s a good guy but if you’re not married (and sometimes even if you are) you want that layer of protection.

              2. Courageous cat*

                Yup, we’re not combining everything. My checking, savings accounts, and credit will remain intact.

              3. anon for this today*

                Yes — please do listen — and not just out of concerns of him “trying to screw [you] over” or him being a bad guy, but out of practicality. What if you’ve been giving him money for a while and so you’re at a whopping $18k of savings after some time, and he suddenly (God forbid) passes away, or is seriously injured and incapacitated? What if he’s incapacitated, in need of long-term care and rehab, and you can’t get access to those accounts and can’t pay the rent and are looking at eviction?

                For me, for almost our entire marriage I figured “I’ll be fine — I have access to our joint account and have some small savings that will take me through until (whatever)”. But then we had a kid, and suddenly I realized that if something terrible were to happen to spouse I’d have to provide for kid too, and options narrowed — daycare alone is $16,800/year and suddenly that $18k in savings doesn’t stretch too far. At that time I made a lot of changes to my/our finances. I hope I never need them — but I also don’t want Future Me in a preventable tragedy.

                1. Courageous cat*

                  I’m not trying to suggest I’m not listening. I am somewhat confused as to what you’re suggesting here as an alternative, though – not moving in with him? Yes, if he dies or is seriously incapacitated, I don’t have access to his money, but I don’t see any way out of that unless we get married right off the bat. Or are you simply saying that I should have access to the money that I’m giving him? If so, then yes, I agree and we are going to discuss putting it in a shared account.

                2. Not So NewReader*

                  @ CC. You don’t need to be married to have each other’s power of attorney. You can also do health care proxy and a living will for each of you.

                  You can also get life insurance policies. The rule of thumb I have read and I tend to agree with is to have eight times your annual income in life insurance. The life insurance will pay out to the beneficiary directly. This would put cash in the hands of the surviving spouse/partner so they can deal with what they need to deal with.

                  My husband was absolutely shocked when our financial planner told him that I could not stay in the house without my husband’s income. It never once occurred to him that I would have to figure out where I would go and what I would do.

                  I found myself widowed just before my 46 birthday. Whoops did not plan on that. I am compelled…. no, I am driven by an unrelenting force to encourage you NOT to let go of managing the finances. This will only hurt you in the long run as the years go by and you lose your reference points. I have watched too many people sit and cry because they no longer understand their bills, they cannot follow their bank statements, they can’t write a check and they have no idea how to purchase something online. Doing any of these activities locks them up in fear such that they are unable to retain the steps in the processes.

                  It’s very easy to convince ones self that one will never forget how to read and pay a bill. But as the decades roll by bill formatting changes. Additionally options and extras are added. This can be very hard to sort through if one has no more reference points.

                  Just as I would not want a spouse tossing all the housework on to me for any reason, I have to assume that having one spouse handle ALL the financials is a potential weak spot for issues down the road. This isn’t just a trust issue. It’s about understanding how things work, what you are paying for and so on. I understand you are saying you are bad a finances. I hope, as a spouse suddenly left on her own, I can encourage you to use your time with him to get BETTER at handling finances. Let him show you what he does so you can learn and you can grow.

                  Committed relationships require an openness to life long growth. I know first hand that we do not get to pick the ways we have to grow ourselves. Sometimes things get foisted on us and we have to learn on the fly. This can be a nightmare.

                3. Courageous cat*

                  @NSNR – I’ve spent all of my adult life paying my own bills, I don’t have any concerns that I am going to forget how to. But your point is noted and considered.

            2. Colette*

              Something else to consider is what the rules are for shared expenses. Is it ok to buy a new set of sheets? New furniture? A new car? What are the limits where you need to discuss a purchase out of that shared expense bucket?

      2. LibbyG*

        This is what my spouse and I do, though because our incomes were approximately equal we did it by equal dollar values. My income has grown to be about 40% bigger than his, but because he has more wealth, we’re keeping the dollar values equal until my wealth catches up. Then we’ll go proportionate by income.

        Also, I owned our house that he moved into. He bought coownership by contributing cash toward a home improvement project equal to my estimated equity. Then we added him to the deed and the mortgage.

        I definitely suggest that part of the plan has to involve you accumulating some wealth beyond your IRA. Wealth=choices.

        1. fposte*

          Yes, very well said. The one thing I might worry about here is if the pre-marriage stage lasts for a while without the OP getting any kind of ownership of the house—partner would be solely reaping the total benefit of increased home equity on OP’s dime. I see that one with unfortunate frequency.

          1. Washi*

            Exactly. My friend was in this situation where she paid rent and also put a lot of labor into the house her boyfriend owned…and then he cheated on her. What seemed fine when she thought they were going to get married suddenly did not feel so fine after that. I would worry that paying 50% of my income towards housing expenses that increased the value of my much higher-paid partner’s asset would also not feel so good if the relationship ended.

            1. Steve A*

              Honesty about expectations is critical. CC mentions that their situation isn’t much different than paying rent except that the home is better than could be afforded as a rental. Your friend clearly expected that they were going to get a financial benefit later for labor done now, which was a problem when the implied contract was broken.

          2. Courageous cat*

            Very good point that, as a lifelong renter, had not occurred to me. I am not sure the way around that pre-marriage but it’s worth considering. It seems like putting it into an “ours” pot rather than a “do whatever you want with it” pot may be the solution.

            1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

              I will throw out: when my husband and I discussed that he would not be getting equity in my house under the terms of our prenup as we were planning it, his decision was that he was fine with that because he actively and specifically did not at any point want any of the responsibilities of home ownership or a mortgage – left to his own devices, he never planned to do anything other than rent anyway, so he wouldn’t have been earning equity in any case. We deliberately agreed that ultimately I’m the one who has both the legal and fiscal responsibilities of home ownership, AND the corresponding legal and fiscal benefits. That’s not to say that you should automatically be fine without equity — but if that’s a conscious decision you make about what works with your long term goals for your own future, with intentional deliberation, rather than just stumbling into it, that may be okay with you as long as it’s a decision you make knowingly. :)

        2. Courageous cat*

          He did plan on putting some of that money towards savings for me, probably some kind of Vanguard account.

    4. D3*

      Here’s one way many people find works: You each have your own bank accounts, and you ALSO have “Household accounts” – at least one checking and one savings. You each contribute proportionally to the household accounts (so if he makes twice as much as you, he contributes twice as much) – all household bills (housing, groceries, utilities, etc etc) come from the household accounts. Your personal accounts are your own money you spend however you want, without approval from the other person.

      You can vary this however you want. I also know couples that have everything in the household account, but have budgeted a certain amount every month/quarter/year (like $200/person or whatever) to be transferred into the personal accounts for the “fun and guilt free” spending.

      My husband and I do a variation of this. We both have regular employment and a side hustle and have decided that regular employment money go into the family accounts and side hustle money go into our personal accounts.

      1. The Other Dawn*

        Your first paragraph is the way my husband and I do it. It’s so much easier. He makes about 35% less than I do, so his portion of the monthly budget is 35% less than mine.

    5. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      We don’t combine at all, to the point where we have a prenup that details our financial separation, so this might not be super useful to you, but I’ll answer your questions about the nitty gritty anyway, because I agree, it’s hard to get good answers from people :) We make pretty close to the same amount NOW, but up until about a year ago, I made anywhere from 1.5 to 2 times as much as he did.

      My household is three adults who all have separate finances, two of us are married to each other. I (the wife within the married couple) am the sole homeowner (I bought my house before my now-husband and I even got engaged). The guys each pay me a set amount per month which covers their rent, a set dollar amount for household consumables (groceries, TP/laundry soap etc) and their portion of our shared family cell plan (which varies depending on who’s paying off a phone or whatever). Then I do all the buying of the groceries/consumables. I pay for household maintenance costs (like when I replaced the garage door and such) because I’m the homeowner. On house stuff that benefits everyone – whoever wants it buys it. I was going to buy a rug (though my husband got it for me for Christmas instead), he wanted a bigger TV so he bought the TV. I actually end up using the TV more than he does, but I’d also have been fine with the one we had before, so I wasn’t interested in spending money on one. When we bought a new mattress, he was far more picky about the mattress than I was, and I had a lower budget that I was willing to spend on a mattress, so I said “My budget for a mattress is $200” and he picked out the mattress he wanted, I gave him my $200 toward it and he paid the other $400 because it was important to him. If we somehow end up splitting, the bed is mine (because I paid for it) and he can take the mattress because he paid more for it and I’m less picky. He does have an expensive medical bill he’s paying down, and if he needed help with that we’d talk about it, but he hasn’t brought it up so I figure he’s probably doing fine with it. His brother occasionally borrows money from him, and his brother is constantly cash-poor but is an excellent handyman, so (outside of pandemic times) we have a sort of running list of small household projects that his brother can do around my house to work off the borrowed money – when those come up, I pay for any materials that need to be purchased, and he’s effectively paying his brother to do the manual labor. But if I hire an outside guy (like when I had a plumber replace the outside hose bib, or something else with high enough liability that I want someone insured rather than his brother to work on it), I pay for it all.

      Suggestion: If you are intent on combining to some degree, each of you put X (either as a percentage or a straight dollar amount, whichever makes you guys collectively more comfortable) of your base income into a joint account and decide up front what expenses you want to pay out of the joint account – utility bills, groceries, shared meals out, shared savings, all or part of the mortgage, etc. But I would strongly encourage you, rather than just handing over half your monthly salary to him, to make sure that shared money is going into an account where you both have access to the shared funds, not just one of you.

      Also, decide up front how other windfalls – a bonus at work, an inheritance, etc – will be handled. In a past relationship where we did combine in the manner I’d suggested, we didn’t figure that out ahead of time, and when I got a large bonus from work, I thought of it as my bonus, and my ex got very upset that I didn’t put the whole thing into shared funds. (I ended up putting half of it into the shared funds, because that seemed reasonable to me, but he was still super upset that I didn’t put up the whole thing. There are reasons I’m not inclined to combine anymore. Too many times burned. Heh.)

    6. CatCat*

      We combine everything. We have a shared budget that includes equal amounts of personal blow money for each person each month. When it’s something one of us would like, but would benefit the other too, we just talk about where that should come from in the budget and if it makes sense to come from personal blow money budget category or something like the household items budget category.

      1. CatCat*

        I should note we do not combine things like cash gifts though. That’s separate for the recipient and doesn’t go into the budget unless the recipient wants it to. But income is all pooled together.

    7. RagingADHD*

      We waited until we were married and just made it all ours, except for individual retirement accounts. But we are each other’s beneficiaries on those.

      Personal gifts or small windfalls are “mad money” for that person. Pocket money is discretionary, but we spent a few years being super-broke due to the 2008 recession, so we got in the habit of discussing/checking pretty much every non-routine purchase over about $25, just to make sure we had the money. We’re far more comfortable now, but the habit stuck.

      We have taken turns over the course of our marriage as to who earns more. Which is, I think, a great learning experience for us both.

      1. Elspeth McGillicuddy*

        My parents say it’s really dangerous to go shopping together. If they are by themselves, they go, “hmm, looks good but I need to talk it over with my spouse before spending that much.” If they are together, they both go, “oh, this looks nice,” and end up coming home with a new set of pots and pans or somesuch.

    8. Laura H.*

      I would spread that paycheck amount out over the two pay periods (provided it’s consistently the same). At least to start. If you find you can make due with one paycheck in your account in one sitting after a while, you could revisit then.

      That way YOU have a cushion if you have an emergency expense and you only have access to your stuff at that time.

      1. Courageous cat*

        Oh yeah, I just meant in effect it would be one paycheck. I agree with you that that would be tough otherwise. I will probably pay him split up over both paychecks each month.

    9. Not A Manager*

      I don’t think there’s a one-size-fits-all answer. In my opinion, it’s best to let go of the idea of “fair” and think instead about each person’s needs.

      If he owns the home, and he can afford the mortgage himself, and your plan if you moved out is not to have any further claim on the home’s value (at least for the moment), then one option is for you not to pay any rent/mortgage at all. Then you and he could divide shared consumables like food and utilities in whatever way makes sense for you.

      Another option is for you to look at what you’re spending now maintaining your own housing and consumables, and that’s the sum that you contribute to your shared household no matter what the actual expenses turn out to be each month.

      I would suggest not immediately combining items that aren’t currently shared, such as clothing budgets, retirement accounts or insurance. Wait to combine them until your lives are such that you do choose to share those expenses/benefits.

    10. Liz*

      If you’re not planning on fully combining everything, my solution was this: 1 joint account for all the essential bills – rent/mortgage, utility bills, joint insurance policies, groceries, basic household requirements, maybe a few luxury purchases agreed upon by both (we have a Netflix and Spotify account on ours) – and an individual account for each partner, into which they get paid. Each pays enough into the joint every month to cover those basics plus a little surplus as a cushion/small savings stash. (We split this 50/50 but you might want to agree to a different split if that suits you and your partner?)

      This is what we have. Our paychecks go into our own accounts and a standing order shifts the basic living costs amount into the joint account the day after. Individual expenses such as mobile phone bills, gym membership, anything that relates only to one person comes out of that person’s individual account. If one person wants to get an extra luxury for the house, they can cover it themselves or raise it for discussion to consider adding to the household expenses.

      I am the lesser earner in our household, but for me it 50/50 split feels fair. After my half of the essentials, I keep control of the remainder of my income and benefit from the reduction in bills by sharing with another person, which means I have a little leftover for myself too.

    11. Ask a Manager* Post author

      You’re going to put 50% of your income toward common expenses and he … is not. That doesn’t sound fair.

      A common way to handle this in partnerships with separate finances where one person makes significantly more is to contribute to the joint expenses based on the percentage you earn. If he earns twice as much as you do, he contributes twice as much. Even then, though, you have to make sure you’re not creating a situation where you have very little discretionary spending money left over each month and he has a lot — because then you’ll be living two wildly different lifestyles in the same house. Which may matter less if you’re not married, but seems really problematic if you are.

      … Actually, now that I think about it, I think all this advice makes more sense in the context of a marriage, where there’s a legal contract and an explicit agreement to remain partners for life. Outside a marriage, even if the eventual goal is marriage, I don’t think these concepts work as well. (For example, I think it’s more reasonable that the two of you might have wildly different amounts of spending money if you’re unmarried, and fairly untenable if you’re married.)

      FWIW, as the partner who makes more money in my relationship, I want my income to make my husband’s life better/easier. I hope your partner is actively seeking to do the same for you, rather than just being focused on what’s even. (Or if he’s not, I’d argue that’s a sign to approach this a bit more like you would in a roommate situation.)

      1. Courageous cat*

        Your first point is one I hadn’t even thought of yet. I mainly only suggested that route because I still come out on top – even if I give him half my income, I still end up having more spending money than I do now (he will always have more of that than me, probably even if I paid him nothing, and we have similar spending habits), my debt will be paid off, and I’d have a muuuuuuch nicer house to live in. But I never thought of it in terms of actual percentages, so fair point.

        I think I am (obviously) a bit blinded by the fact that like, if I move in with him and eventually get married (as is the plan), I’d be upgrading my entire life significantly and entering a state financial security for the first time ever. So I think part of me feels like I owe him that amount for that peace of mind? Which isn’t necessarily fair, I’m coming to realize.

        So I’m thinking after all these comments about suggesting that what I do put in (and figuring out something more proportional) should go into a shared household expenses account that I can access, rather than just giving it to him and saying go nuts.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Watch out for that feeling of uneven footing- where you think you have gotten so much more.
          You bring priceless intangibles to the table. When you move in with him his HOUSE becomes a HOME. You are also his rock in life, you are his sounding board, and his second set of eyes. What about his peace of mind? You are his port in life’s storms and there will be storms.

          He knows the finances are not balanced and he has decided (for reasons that have nothing to do with money) to move ahead and share his life with you. Chin up and go in as an equal partner, an active, thinking, fully participating LIFE partner. A good starting point is understanding where the money that the two of you current earn goes, figuring out how you will get out of debt and so on.

          1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

            … Normally I read your posts nodding in agreement the entire time, but the idea that one’s house isn’t a HOME until a partner moves into it is kinda gross.

            1. Not So NewReader*

              Okay, I can I see that. More clearly stated, if one thought of their house as a house, they might reframe and begin to think of it as home.

      2. HannahS*

        Yeah, I’d strongly agree with that. I was initially the partner that made nothing (student), am now making a bit less but have more savings, and will one day make 2.5 times more than my husband (medical subspecialty income).If I make 2.5 times more, does that mean that I get to have 2.5 times more leisure, or have more expensive hobbies, or travel more? Does it mean I get to retire earlier? I wouldn’t want to live like that. I earn for the family, and so does he. My general attitude to discretionary spending is that if we can afford it, it’s fine. My husband spends more than I do, but I’m not tracking it to the penny because I don’t really care if one of us spends more and one earns more. We live a shared life. It’s our money.

        I get wanting to be independent financially, especially when you don’t have as much legal protection. And I felt self-conscious spending money when I wasn’t earning; when it was “his money,” so I feel you. I just think, you know, if you’re going to have a legal agreement that you divide things evenly if you split, then all the stuff about “yours, mine, and ours” is kind of window-dressing. Like, couples can divide and set rules however they want, obviously. And if it makes you feel better to set aside x-percentage of your paycheck for the rest of your life as discretionary money that he’s not allowed to comment on, then you can! I just think–money isn’t really the issue there; it’s the fact that he’s commenting/trying to control your spending. Or it’s that you feel you can’t spend money that he earns–that it’s “his” and not “ours.”

        1. HannahS*

          Er, to correct myself, I came to the relationship with more savings, but more debt. At this point if we were to look at who was contributing where, I’m not sure who’d be contributing more.

        2. anon for this today*

          I’ll comment on the yours/mine/ours split: My spouse has a difficult relationship with their parents, and the parents have a difficult relationship with each other at times. I don’t want to/need to know about spouse lending spouse’s dad money so that spouse’s mom won’t know about dad’s hobby expenditures, as long as all our household bills are being taken care of responsibly.
          Likewise, I don’t want to discuss some of my purchases with my spouse. Yes, I love spouse, we share a life, etc. But when we were having a tough time I went to therapy and I didn’t want spouse to immediately know. I want to indulge in my own hobbies (again, responsibly) without discussing the expenditures. Spouse and I have had very different ideas of what it’s ok to spend money on. For joint purchases, I’m happy to talk through it and agree. For some other purchases, I just don’t want to get into a discussion of whether I should try to find it used first (yes I tried) or whether I really need it (no I don’t really need it, I just want it) or how it’s not really of interest to spouse (no shit that is why I am buying it for myself not you). (And for anyone thinking about how irresponsible I sound, I max out my retirement every year, did even when I was earning 60k/yr, paid off my student loans while in grad school making 20k/year, and have never ever had credit card debt. But when I was finishing my dissertation I wanted a flipping latte EVERY WEEK.)

          Over the years we’ve worked a lot of this out and we don’t have much friction, frankly, over money — but we both grew up with less money, now have more money comparatively, and have really had to work to think about how it’s ok to spend money if you’re getting something you value out of it and saving and investing first. But in our first few years, it saved me a lot of pain to not have to talk about the magnitude of my latte habit versus spouse’s father’s hobby (175 lattes = 1 hobby item, thanks). Yes, we could have argued for hours about lattes versus free coffee with nasty creamer. Yes, maybe it would have helped my spouse’s psychological development or someone would feel that we have a better marriage. Or we’d just be divorced.

          I don’t want to know and share everything about spouse. We all have our preferences :)

    12. 30ish*

      From my perspective, almost the most important thing is the process by which you get to a solution together. The solution itself can vary a lot between couples. In my experience it’s worth it to really discuss this in depth and with total transparency. It can be tough because it really makes it clear how each one of you views the relationship (for example, how ncuh he wants to be in financial solidarity with you, and to what extent you feel comfortable having him pay more). But these questions are extremely relevant, especially if marriage is on the tsbke. So personally I would not go for a kind of random solution like giving him one paycheck. I would work this out more in detail.

      1. Courageous cat*

        Right – that’s what I’m trying to do! We *are* having these conversations now with full transparency (I wouldn’t be moving till later in the spring), so I posted this hoping for people to point out details I hadn’t thought of so we could continue hashing it out. I have always had separate finances from those I live with so this is 100% utterly new to me.

        1. 30ish*

          Sounds like you’ve got it covered! We did proportional contributions for household expenses for a while first and then combined almost everything when we had our son.

    13. Aurora Leigh*

      My husband makes about 50k compared to my 25k. When I moved in, he had had owned his house for about a year. His house payment was way less than my rent had been, but I just didn’t feel right making part of his house payment before we were married. I paid for utilities and he made the house payment. I also bought most of the groceries and he paid for dinners out. Now that we’re married we’re in the process of combining everything (COVID has slowed us down with the actual going to the bank part but we treat our accounts as one and check with each other before big purchases).

    14. Disco Janet*

      We really don’t consider how much money each person makes at all. Everything goes into a joint account and any big, unnecessary purchases are discussed before buying. Like, if I need some new work clothes I’m just going to buy them, though if I’m planning on spending quite a bit or have decided on an expensive pair or shoes or something I’ll give him a heads up and explain why. Not in a permission seeking way, just in a partners/keeping him in the loop way. But like if one of us wanted to buy the new PlayStation 5 that would be a conversation first. Generally this method works for us and is fairly uncomplicated – we both trust that the other is reasonable with their purchases.

    15. Pocket Mouse*

      My partner and I split expenses evenly for the first 6-ish years we were together, including while living together, and kept a ledger that we would periodically settle (we made roughly the same amount at the time, and also had independent streaks to satisfy). When the time came that one of us was making more than the other, we adjusted to pay proportional amounts on our biggest expenses, primarily rent. We’ve been together over a decade and have always only had our separate accounts, though since around the time we got married we treat all of our funds as communal, e.g. whoever has more money in their checking account that month writes the rent check. I’m not going to recommend it for everybody, but it works well for us.

      One thing about your post caught my attention: how comfortable are you two talking about finances? You wrote, “I think … we’ve loosely planned … talking about money on this level is taboo” – if you are going to share finances, you need, and I mean NEED, to be able to talk to your boyfriend explicitly, thoroughly, and honestly about your financial situations, goals, and level of comfort with different approaches and spending styles. You both need to have a clear understanding of the details you ultimately decide on, and you both need to be able to bring up any items for discussion and adjustment in the future. Please Google ‘reddit shared expenses’ – you’ll find a lot more perspectives than can be shared here, and I definitely found reading through them useful as my partner and I were adjusting our setup.

      Also, I second others’ recommendations to contribute proportional amounts to shared expenses. You contributing half of your income while he contributes significantly less than half of his income worries me–and I’d take it as an orange flag at minimum if he is on board with the disproportionate financial impact of going this route. Please ensure you can be financially independent of him in the event you someday need to be.

      1. Courageous cat*

        Very comfortable – as I said in another comment: “We *are* having these conversations now with full transparency (I wouldn’t be moving till later in the spring), so I posted this hoping for people to point out details I hadn’t thought of so we could continue hashing it out. I have always had separate finances from those I live with so this is 100% utterly new to me.”

        “I think” and “we’ve loosely planned” is just my way of saying we have not fully decided yet and are still having these conversations, which is why everyone’s input has been very welcomed. There is nothing at all we are not prepared to explicitly discuss.

        I don’t think we need to be worried for me, partially because whether or not he’s a concerning person to be in a relationship with is not the intention of this comment (I have been in enough relationships to be more than capable of vetting his character, and have zero concerns), and partially because there was a detail to this I realized I failed to leave out that turned out to be important, ha. Plus there’s the issue that we discussed of, like: I have a lot of expensive medical bills lately, I may need a new car soon, etc – and he is going to be in a position to help me with any/all of that, so that level of financial security that I can’t provide for myself made it feel more fair to me.

        Either way, thank you for the input and will keep in mind.

    16. Tired of Covid-and People*

      Don’t help your boyfriend pay HIS mortgage unless you get your name on the deed or something. Or wait till marriage. If you insist on contributing to the household, use a proportion based on the ratio of your income to his.DO NOT split 50/50,not fair to the lower earning spouse. Three accounts are needed, one for him, one for you, and one combined.

      Everyone thinks their love is forever, but it’s the person with less money who didn’t protect themselves financially, or save for their future, that’s left holding the bag when things go south. Women in particular must be financially savvy and not offload their financial well-being to anyone. Become knowledgeable about saving, investing, and insurance.

      All of this said, the two of you have the final say in deciding what works for you. I hope your partner is kind and generous, not like the husband in Joy Luck Club who made his wife split the cost of ice cream when she didn’t eat it.

      1. Courageous cat*

        Your first point is very well-taken and we will be discussing that for sure. But the concept that I’m “offloading my financial well-being” is off the mark. I currently spend MORE than half my income on rent and bills (and yes, it sucks). I will be actually gaining discretionary income in this scenario.

        All of that to say: if we break up in 10 months, I’ve probably saved up more money by then than I would have otherwise, continuing to live alone.

        And yes, I definitely would not be moving in with him if he were not kind and generous! Been there/done that.

        1. TechWorker*

          This is all true! I think the kicker is the hypothetical situation where you don’t get married for a while and then eventually break up… at which point you could have been contributing rent for a long time and not have anything to show for it in terms of property ownership (whilst your partner has paid off his mortgage quicker than otherwise). Of course if in all of that time you wouldn’t have been in a financial situation to be able to buy a house on your own anyway, or if you have concrete plans to get married and share finances, or if the amount your other half is contributing to clear your debt overrides all of this anyway… then you might still feel it’s fair. But that’s worth considering.

          My partner and I are not married, and split house and living expenses 50-50 (he earns more, but not significantly so, and I’m likely to overtake him at some point as he’s working fewer hours now). He contributed slightly more when we renovated the house but only for bits where I wouldn’t have chosen to spend the money, if that makes sense. Before we bought a house together I was paying him ‘rent’ effectively, and it did honestly make me a bit uncomfortable, I’m much happier with the financial situation now. We put the same amount each month into a shared pot to cover the mortgage, groceries, shared expenses and cats :) and the rest of our money is ours to spend/save as we want.

          I have friends who earn less evenly and they both out 60% of their income into a joint account for house/shared expenses/couples holidays. The remaining 40% is their own. Those numbers work for them because they mean they can afford to do nice things together whilst still having some control of their money. Home ownership complicates things ontop of that though :)

    17. Courageous cat*

      Thank you guys for all the feedback on this. We are still having these ongoing conversations so all the points you brought up have been extremely valuable, since (as a lifelong renter) I had never thought about my role in helping him pay off his house. Didn’t even occur to me.

      I will say, to my defense: the only reason I considered giving him half my income was because of the financial security he would otherwise provide, and the fact that I currently spend more than half my income on rent/bills as it is, so I actually come out better than I do currently. That plus the knowledge that when my cat has an exorbitant vet bill or my car finally dies, I’ll be taken care of, was what was in my mind when I thought of that.

      But, heard on making it more proportional (proportionate?), and will talk about having this go into a shared account I have access to. Everyone had very helpful points so thank you.

      1. Courageous cat*

        And just to clarify, he is extremely kind, generous, and flexible – this is not a situation of him trying to take advantage of me. We are just in the early stages of trying to figure it out, so this was my initial thought process.

        1. Disco Janet*

          That’s good to hear! And while my response says ours are all combined, I should clarify that didn’t happen until marriage. When I first moved in with him, he took care of the mortgage since the house was in his name. I covered utilities and groceries (most of the time – we were pretty casual about it, so sometimes he’d end up doing the shopping and never wanted to be paid back or anything.)

          The one big thing that came up pre-wedding was my car breaking down and not being salvageable. We were engaged and hadn’t combined our bank accounts yet, but I made much less at that point (soon I’ll be making more than him though!) and didn’t have enough saved to buy one. He loaned me the money and I paid him back an agreed amount once a month. Stopped obviously once we were married and the money was all shared anyways.

      2. Batgirl*

        As well as making sure you don’t pay off someone else’s mortgage (you’re adding to his comforts unlike a lodger; he shouldn’t profit off a partner and will probably refuse to), and using percentages to be proportionate; consider changing financial arrangements for married/unmarried states. If you legalise your relationship it becomes fairer to contribute to his assets because they become half yours. So would his debts and unforeseen misfortunes! You have to remember too that it’s not merely a financial partnership. My partner could earn more, but his time and efforts at home are more valuable to me so I don’t want him to. Remember too, that fortunes change over time. If something happened to change you into the higher earner, would you feel just as comfortable with him following the rules set in place for the lower earner? You might feel ok/grateful to give up more of your salary than him right now because it compares well with what youre used to, but you’d probably feel like a mooch if your lower earning partner sacrificed more than you did in the future.

    18. TextHead*

      My partner and I have a less formal arrangement than many of the ones mentioned here. He makes a lot more than I do and we’re not currently married, but are moving in that direction. He pays the mortgage and a fair number of the shared bills. I pay several of the shared bills (and have added another on after a raise because it felt right and I wanted to). We pay our own individual bills (car payments, student loans, etc). Whoever shops for groceries pays and when we go together, we roughly trade off, with him typically taking the more expensive ones (Costco…). Same with dinners out. I pay for take out currently since I have the DoorDash account, lol, but his card is on file, too, if I wanted to use his instead. We don’t have a shared bank account, but we just ask each other if we need the other to pay for something (really just me asking him in reality).

      Like I said, super informal, but we find it fair and don’t have to worry about tracking it down the cent. We just want a life where we’re both happy and financially secure and his income makes that very possible for us both, but I want to contribute too.

    19. Artemesia*

      I would have a household account and decide a fair allocation based on your earnings. If he owns his own home then you shouldn’t be paying on the mortgage till you are married, but perhaps you could pay one of the utilities or do that from the household account. Use the household account for groceries and other household costs. Be sure you are maxing out your retirement through deductions and it is a good idea to also populate your emergency fund/savings automatically before you get the paycheck.

    20. Miss Pantalones En Fuego*

      We have a joint account for household bills but our own accounts for everything else. I like having my own independent finances etc.

      But it’s also partly because of US tax rules for people who live overseas. I’ve never quite understood them all since I don’t make enough for them to apply to me, but I think that if the amount in any account I have signatory authority on is over a certain threshold then I’d have to report it to the IRS and pay taxes on it. My husband is not a US citizen and has never lived or worked there so it would be infuriating and absurd to pay tax on his income, so we keep everything separate. Our relationship is such that this isn’t a problem, because if I need more money for something he just gives it to me. He pays for all the bills and such and I contribute when I can.

    21. Cats on a Bench*

      Before we were married, my SO and I did not combine money at all. He made at least twice what I did and I did move into his house and pay some rent. I think I paid him maybe a quarter of his monthly mortgage payment. It was less than I had been paying in rent at my apartment, but he felt I shouldn’t pay half because owning a home is an investment that only he could benefit from since my name wasn’t on the mortgage. I also paid some toward utilities, but probably only like a third of it. He really felt he was the one who benefited the most (financially) from my moving in and didn’t want it to create a disparity between us. So I ended up having fewer expenses than I was used to, but then it was nice because I more cash to “play” with and was able to pay more frequently when we went out to eat or to the movies and that felt really good. When we got married, we made the choice to combine accounts that we both had equal access to. Although, we did keep our credit card accounts separate. It was just bank accounts that got combined. Initially we shared responsibilities for managing the household, and he took responsibility for paying all the bills. As we had kids, I stopped working and he got busier at work so I took over paying bills and managing the household stuff (including assigning things to him to do – he has no issue with doing work around the house, just needs it communicated what needs to be done). As the kids get older, they get assigned household responsibilities of their own. Things evolve as life changes, but the one constant we have always made sure of is that both of us know where our money is and we both have equal access to it. We chose a spending amount that we felt anything above it needed to be agreed upon by both of us, but below it was at our discretion individually and without question from the other one. This amount changes over time depending on various factors (income changes, saving for something in particular, etc.) Luckily, we have similar spending sensibilities so we don’t have too many issues come up over money. I would really recommend talking with your BF about how each of you likes to spend money and save money quite a bit before combining accounts. And how you want to work together with that information. I think that was the single most important thing my SO and I did before we got married. We almost never fight over money because we have regular conversations about how we want to manage our money together. If we ever get to where we can’t compromise or agree, that is when we’ll separate accounts again. Alison mentioned in her response that she actively tries to make her partner’s life easier since she has the larger income, and that is what my SO does too. I don’t work (yeah yeah yeah, stay at home mom is work blah blah blah) so I rely entirely on him, but he never lords it over me. He does not stipulate what I can and can’t spend or what I spend it on. He shares his income with me freely to take care of our family together. We are a partnership.

    22. Scout Finch*

      My now-husband and I lived together for 13 years before we married (20 years ago). We were both pretty paycheck-to-paycheck. Now, financials are better for us.

      What worked for us is putting all $ (incoming and outgoing) on a spreadsheet organized by dates (payday or date due), type (green cell for incoming $; blue cell for “life” bills like insurance, rent, utilities; yellow for credit cards and other optional bills that we should be cautious about) and details on the debt (company, acct number, contact info). Also columns for before & after balances – it’s nice to see the balance decrease. We reviewed the spreadsheet every week or so together.

      All of our $$ goes into the same pot, basically. Anything over $25 or so (for the house or whatever) gets discussed (not for permission, necessarily, but to look at reviews or look for one we may have tucked away somewhere or see if it fits where we want to put it) before being purchased. Each of us gets a set amount of cash “allowance” every week that we can spend on whatever – or save for something bigger ticket. (He puts all his gas for work on the AmEx which is paid off every month & I have a credit card for emergencies) It sounds juvenile, but it has forced us to really evaluate our purchases. When we had elder care responsibilities (and associated costs), it was more about us having pocket change – things were really tight. Now it’s just habit and has allowed us to plan for some house (built in 1959 & needs EVERYthing) improvements & assist charities & others.

      My income is about 1.5 times his, but that does not really come into the conversation. We don’t buy a lot of “stuff”, but we have all we need. When we discuss purchases, it is like both of us researching or discussing ideas for how thingy can fit into our house/life. Neither of us has ever told the other “NO” on these things – it’s just us talking things out until there is a decision.

      We have separate checking accounts and a joint savings account. I pay all the bills (2 small ones come out of his account) out of my checking account (we transfer most of his paycheck to my account) because he has no interest in doing bills. The spreadsheet review is enough for him.

      Bigger income gaps may come with bigger challenges. Money conversations are not easy, but you need to be able to talk about it.

    23. Courageous cat*

      Update: we talked it over last night, and his plans had been to use $700 of my half to pay all the bills, which will be extremely helpful to him, and then the leftover $1000ish was going to go into a retirement savings account for me specifically (he is doing this because I told him I am not good at saving money for myself by myself) that I would have visibility into. So, if anyone has thoughts on that let me know, but that seems like a pretty reasonable route to me. I knew he wanted to put some in savings for me, but didn’t realize it was that much.

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        So it seems like about 20% of your total income will be going into common expenses (which is a lot more reasonable than 50% in this context, although I’d still look at what percentage of your income each of you is contributing toward the shared pot).

        But having him take $1000 of your money to put into a retirement account for you … well, you might be fine with it! But there’s an argument that it’s infantilizing you — if you want to put money in retirement, put it in retirement and skip the middle man. Personally, I’d feel infantilized by having him manage it that way, but some people would probably like it. I’d also feel infantilized by having him just decide this on his own and not explain it until this discussion, kind as his intent is … but again, that’s me personally.

        I don’t know — you’re giving a lot of control over the management of your money to someone else, someone who you haven’t set up a legal contract with to protect you both (whether that contract is marriage or something else). Why not just give him the $700 for shared expenses (or whatever number you both decide is right) and handle your savings on your own? Since you said you’re bad at saving by yourself, you could have $1,000 go into retirement via a payroll deduction so it never even lands in your checking account.

        I’d also look at the tax implications of what he’s proposing, because you should be getting a tax credit for retirement contributions and I’d want to be sure he’s doing this in a way that doesn’t jeopardize that for you. (You need to be able to claim that credit yourself at the end of the year when you do your taxes. You probably still can, but I’d look at the set-up with that in mind.)

        1. Generic Name*

          This is such a good comment. I know you intend to marry this person, it honestly I’d hold off on combining finances (including him putting money away for you) in any meaningful way until you are legally married. Decide on an amount that you will contribute to household expenses and give that to him on a monthly/weekly/biweekly basis.

          Look into your company’s 401k plan and ask if they have a match. If you are not taking advantage of your company’s match, you are leaving money on the table. Also, money you contribute directly to your employer’s plan is pre-tax, so you are again leaving money in the table if your boyfriend invests it for you elsewhere.

          I make a lot more than my husband, and I solely own the house. He is not on the deed, but I made a provision for him regrading the house in my will. When he first moved in, he gave me a certain amount from each paycheck, but now that we are married, we are both more flexible. We consider the money “ours” even though we have separate accounts.

          Whatever you decide, please make a point of knowing exactly where all your money is going. I used to be married to a man who made much more money than I do, and he took care of all of the finances. I trusted him, but looking back, I have no idea where it all went. When he moved out, I was quite surprised that I could live in the house and pay all the bills with just my income.

          1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

            On your third paragraph, the “will” part – I did forget to mention, in my previous comments, that while I am the only owner of my house and the only person listed on the mortgage, I have more than enough life insurance on me with my husband as the beneficiary to enable him to fully pay off the mortgage if something were to happen to me, and our end of life documentation specifies that if I die first, my house passes to him, and he is to use the life insurance to pay off said mortgage — then if he wants to keep the house he can do that, or if he’d rather sell it and go back to a renting life, he can do that, it’s up to him at that point. (Similarly, we also have more than enough life insurance on him to allow me to pay it off as well. This, again, was a decision we made jointly – I know I would stay here; on his end the idea is that it buys him some time for him and our housemate to decide collectively whether they would want to stay in the house or what.)

          2. Courageous cat*

            That last paragraph is very valid – I told him that no matter what, I wanted full visibility into our finances, especially anything where my money goes. If he dies, I do not want to suddenly find out some weird financial secret, or not know what account the mortgage comes out of, or anything like that. I insisted on complete transparency and he readily agreed.

            I don’t want to manage it, but I want to be able to see it at a glance at any time and know the status. That said, you may be right that it makes more sense to do once married.

            These are all reasons why I’m glad I came here and asked you guys, because this is a super new step to me and it’s a lot of stuff I haven’t had the chance to think through yet!

        2. Courageous cat*

          The payroll deduction is not a bad idea. For background, it’s mostly just that I am very compulsive and he is extremely disciplined, so it makes sense to hand it over – I don’t personally feel infantilized (though can see why someone would), I feel empowered by it in a way. I have always been the dominant person in my past relationships and always handled literally everything (emotional/unpaid labor, bills, made more money, etc) – and giving up control of the one part of it I’m not good at has always seemed very tempting. (And, for the record, all of this was my idea. He definitely did not decide it on his own, it was a conversation I took the reins on and came up with this while brainstorming out loud, which might be why I feel more empowered rather than infantilized).

          But your point is well taken, and perhaps that should be the right move. We do have a 401k at work (no matching) so it may make more sense just to automate that so I don’t have a choice in saving, it just does it. The concern being, if we break up, I will need to take control over that money again – not sure if I can elect to stop at any point? May be more of a q for the Friday thread.

          Regardless: input heard, and appreciated!

    24. allathian*

      My husband makes a lot more than I do, although the difference isn’t quite as large as yours. We’ve solved it so that each of us pays one half of the mortgage, and he pays all of our utilities, homeowner’s insurance, our child’s insurance, and basically all other bills except my phone bill and a magazine subscription that we got because I wanted it. Both of us pay into a household expenses account, but our other accounts are separate. We discuss big ticket items, although he pays for most of those. Because he earns so much more, we find it’s more equitable that he should pay for a larger percentage of our joint expenses.

  24. Courageous cat*

    Anyone have Airpod Pros? Do you love them? I think they might be my Christmas present to myself today. I’ve never had any airpods at all and I feel like they would be extremely convenient at times.

    1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      I have the regular AirPods and I love them. I don’t want the pros because the shape doesn’t work for my ears – the regular ones are the same model as the wired EarPods that used to come with iPhones, and those fit perfectly in my ears. But in general, I find them extremely convenient :)

    2. Spessartine*

      I have them and I do, indeed, love them. Before I got them I split my headphone usage between my Bose QuietComfort 35s (great noise cancelling) and Beats wired in-ear headphones (more comfortable). The AirPod Pros aren’t as good at the noise cancelling as the QuietComforts are, but they’re a lot more…well….comfortable! And convenient. I like noise cancelling at work because it’s an environment with a lot of loud and high-pitched noises, and my ears/head would get SO hot and sweaty with the over-ear headphones. Plus they press my ears against my glasses arms and it gets painful after a few hours. I can wear the AirPods pretty much all day. And it’s really nice that when somebody needs to talk to me, I can just pop one of them out and the music pauses automatically (most of the time–I find it’s a little finicky and doesn’t always work, but it’s still a great feature). I also really like that it automatically reads new texts to me so I don’t have to put down my instruments to find out if it was something important or not.

      There are definitely still some situations where I’ll use my QuietComforts instead (mainly on airplanes). I also feel like the AirPods battery drains quicker than the QuietComforts, but I don’t know if that’s actually the case or if I’m just using them more. The only thing I *strongly* dislike about the AirPods is that there’s no volume control on the earbuds themselves. You have to adjust it on your phone or use Siri (I find using Siri far more annoying than digging my phone out of my pocket but YMMV). But that’s the only real negative for me. Overall I highly recommend them!

      1. Courageous cat*

        That is so silly about the volume, I just got them and noticed that too. You’d think it would be easy to have a button for that on the back or something. But that said, I don’t change my volume all that much anyway.

        Thanks for the info!

    3. bassclefchick*

      Well, I’ve never actually used them, but I don’t like them. As someone who works in facilities at a major University – you would not BELIEVE the number of calls I got about students dropping them down the elevator shafts. Not so many calls about that now that the students aren’t on campus. Also, someone dropped one in a toilet. Um, you SURE you want that back?! So, no opinion on how they work. But, for a klutz like me, they’re a no go. I’d lose them in a hot minute. Something to think about!

    4. Miss Pantalones En Fuego*

      I got a pair of Jabra Elite 75s for my birthday and they are pretty good. They don’t have any bits that stick way out of my ears, have an integrated volume control, are somewhat customizable using their app, and they have both noise cancelling and a feature called “hear through” that allows you to hear some of what’s going on around you while still listening to music etc. And they connect to multiple devices.

    5. More Coffee Please*

      I’ve had the original AirPods since 2017 and bought the Pros earlier this year. I’m completely obsessed with them. I always say that if something ever happened to mine, I would buy a new pair the same day. A lot of the benefits could be true for wireless earbuds in general, but the AirPods work so seamlessly. I love them to talk on the phone (I’m always multitasking, walking around my apartment and such while talking) and exercising (no cords to get tangled in! life-changing!). The Pros are nice for the noise cancellation aspect as well, of course. They block noise really well.

      1. Courageous cat*

        God, the exercising has been something else. I love being able to move around without being tethered to something! Life changing. The only thing I’ve found after a day and a half of wear is that they sometimes make my ears feel weird so I think I need to change the tips.

  25. A313*

    I am working up the energy to look for “lost” gifts. They are not really lost; I’ve simply squirreled them away because now that both of us are home all the time, I felt the need to quickly hide gifts for him as they arrived and now they are somewhere in the house that I haven’t checked yet. Even if things are back to “normal” next Christmas, I am making a mental note to wrap as I go: there’s no need to hide wrapped gifts, and there is no big wrapping session the day before Christmas, which I hate. This Christmas was harder with no in-person shopping, so I ended up getting more small gifts than usual. So, anyone else still looking for hidden gifts, or is it just me?

    1. Confused Single Mom*

      I found one that I had hidden in a different spot simply because it came in last minute and I forgot about it completely! I think next year I’m going to make a list of what’s I’ve bought for gifts so I can make sure I’ve remembered everything!

    2. Thankful for AAM*

      Well, we had the opposite problem but losing gifts that I put in a secure place sounds just like me!
      This year my husband ordered my gift on Amazon and since all the Amazon stuff comes in my name (it was my account originally and he has not added his name as a “ship to” option) it came in a box addressed to me. He is WFH so he brought the box in but PUT IT ON THE TABLE WHERE WE PUT THE MAIL! Somehow he was surprised that I found it and opened it! We had a good laugh over it.

    3. Might be Spam*

      When I was wrapping gifts I realized that I couldn’t find one of my daughter’s gifts. It was the first gift that I bought this year and I couldn’t find it ANYWHERE. I basically tore up the house looking for it and decided that it would be faster to run out and get a placeholder gift to wrap until I found it. Literally 2 minutes after I got home, I leaned over to pick up something I dropped and there it was. In plain sight. So she got an extra gift this year.

    4. Nicki Name*

      I had a close call with one because I’d forgotten I’d taken it out of the package it arrived in. I was frantically looking around where I remembered putting it, and it was so unobtrusive sitting on the shelf out of its package (which is why I took it out) that I almost didn’t find it!

    5. A313*

      Found, of course! And I even discovered an additional item I forgot about – ha! The least of my 2020 problems, though.

    6. Fellow Traveller*

      Oh man, yes! My husband (who does most of the Christmas shopping) ordered something (A), and was convinced that (A) hadn’t arrived and got a refund, and then found (A) two days later with another stack of unopened packages, where he had stuck it having mistaken it for (B), as they were relatively the same size in the box. And then he spent a week looking for (B) which he then found it on top of a cabinet where he never puts stuff. I mean everything was found in the end, but the glut of unopened boxes was definitely creating a problem. (Which, I know the solution should be “just open the boxes” – but hey, it’s his process and I try not to interfere!)

    7. Seeking Second Childhood*

      I have a kid who notices & finds everything. This year I found something I’d hidden several years ago. (Thank goodness it’s not age dependant.)
      My husband’s just as bad, but he’s on record as not caring about surprise, so that’s not an issue.

      1. Seeking Second Childhood*

        And I just realized I did lose a stocking stuffer for my husband! kind of annoying to not know where it is.

  26. RagingADHD*

    I got a big decorative Santa sack a few years ago, so I only have 1 stash spot. We all consider the game of secrecy part of the fun, so if something needs hiding quickly, we’ll do stuff like stick it under our clothes and yell “nothing to see here! don’t look!”

    Saved me lots of wasted $$$ on lost presents, because I wouldn’t just forget where I put them – I’d forget they existed! I never went hunting for them because I didn’t even know they were lost. I’d just find them a couple years later while I was looking for something else or doing a clear-out.

  27. Alex*

    Looking for recommendations for cheap, easy-to-install-in-a-rental outdoor security cameras, or other ideas to address this situation:

    Someone is using my backyard to smoke cigarettes and use drugs. I’ve found broken drug paraphernalia, cigarette butts galore, along with trash such as drink cans, food wrappers, etc. This is really creeping me out, because my backyard is really tucked away behind the house. You have to walk all the way around the house to get to it, as it is completely fenced in except from the little opening along the driveway. It is actually a multi family house and this little yard is where the entryway to my apartment is, and it is “my” space, far away from the road or any space that belongs to other tenants. No one who is not invited by me should have any reason to be in this area.

    I told my landlord about the situation and he installed a motion-activated light, but that hasn’t deterred this person/people. It is weird because I’m ALWAYS home (because pandemic) and I have never caught them. It has been going on for almost a year now. I just went out today and there are fresh cigarettes dropped on the ground since yesterday. I assume it must happen in the middle of the night when I’m sleeping, otherwise I would have seen it.

    I wouldn’t be too surprised if it is my neighbor’s son, but my neighbor is a nice lady and I don’t want to start any trouble by making accusations when I don’t have any proof. They have their own outdoor space but mine is much more secluded and private.

    I don’t know anything about setting up cameras. I know I don’t have any outside outlets available. I have an iphone and the wifi should be able to be picked up (I can use my computer in my yard). Ideas?

    1. WellRed*

      Can’t the landlord speak to the other tenants? Have you looked into Ring? But also, if you don’t want to confront the neighbor, not sure how you think the security camera will help? Finally, can you have the landlord install a door/gate to block access to your yard?this would bother me too!

      1. RagingADHD*

        OP doesn’t want to adfress it with the neighbor based on speculation/supposition. They didn’t say they are averse to addressing it at all. The camera would establish whether it is the son or not.

        OP, you could always tell your neighbors about it and ask if they heard anything at night, without accusing anyone. If it isn’t the son (or his friends), then I’d assume your neighbors have a vested intetest in knowing that someone is skulking around the back of the house at night!

    2. Reba*

      Yikes!

      Would your landlord be open to installing some kind of locking gate in the entryway?

      There are definitely wireless / chargeable cameras, however they would still need to be mounted (so there’s another convo with the landlord anyway) and of course you need to regularly access them to charge, which also restricts placement a bit. Unless you have a window that overlooks the yard, and perhaps you could set something up there?

    3. violet04*

      Arlo cameras are fairly easy to install and use. The outdoor ones use batteries. There is a phone app and you can view the camera feed from your computer. They can be armed at all times or you can set up specific schedules.

    4. Lolo*

      Are there windows from other apartments overlooking your space? Could the items have been tossed from a window? That probably wouldn’t activate your motion lights, thus not alerting you to a trespasser. Sorry I don’t have any good suggestions about cameras, but I agree that this is very frustrating and disrespectful.

      2. Alex*

        I’m quite sure that the perpetrator is actually there in the yard, because the cigarette butts have been in little piles, like someone was smoking more than one at a time and placing them in a pile. There is a window from one apartment above where this is happening, but I doubt someone would open the screens (which are hard to open) to toss stuff out.

    5. A313*

      My thought is, if you invest in a camera, what will you do with the info? Strangers, I would wait up and when it happens again call the police and not bother with the cameras unless needed. Before buying the cameras, it can’t hurt to contact the landlord and see if they will notify or let you notify the other tenants about it. If you really think it’s your neighbor’s son, I would, depending on his age, talk to him directly or his parent(s). Also, if there’s a way to enclose the area, that might help, but if they are determined, it might not (although the presence of a new gate should alert them that someone’s aware of their activity, but then again, they litter so I can’t see them being too worried, either).

      You have a right to feel safe in your home, and this would concern me!

    6. Alex*

      Thanks for the replies all. I guess my thought with the camera was to see if it was my neighbor’s son before I went accusing. I did already talk to the mom and let her know it was happening but I did not accuse her son outright. I also talked to my landlord but he also doesn’t want to accuse anyone without proof or even solid reasons for suspicion. The only people who live in this building are me, my neighbor and her son (a young adult–not sure the exact age), and my landlord and his wife.

      If I found it was someone else (someone I couldn’t identify) I could maybe report it to the police? I guess maybe they wouldn’t do anything but I’m not sure.

      A gate would be tricky given the configuration–it’s kind of a weird area, with big bushes on one side and a concrete ledge on the other. That would be quite a project and my (notoriously cheap) landlord would be unlikely to devote that much time and money to this problem.

      I’ll check out the arlo camera to see if I could make something like that work. Thanks!

      1. fhqwhgads*

        If a gate is tricky, but this genuinely is intended to be your-and-only-your outdoor area, could you do something to make it much more of a pain in the ass to get in there by any means other than your door? Or would that involve making it difficult to get to your own entrance?

      2. ShinyPenny*

        When my house got broken into, the police told me that cameras (and the APPEARANCE of cameras) were the only hope of prevention.
        Apparently people mount very visible cameras (real or fake) and signage stating that the area is under camera surveilance, and this can be effective at making your house/yard less appealing than one down the street.
        So you could start with just the signs.

        Also, your rhetorical stance with the neighbor’s son could be a variation of ‘Here’s this thing that’s happening. Do you have any idea who it might be? I wouldn’t want to get anyone in trouble if it’s just somebody’s friend, but we’re putting in security cameras to keep your Mom and I/everyone who lives here safe, and we’re going to try to set up the auto-relay to the local police station/security company…”

    7. Anono-me*

      Can you get a solar motion sensor alarm (or you want to escalate -a solar deer motion sensor for your sprinkler)?

      A couple of things to consider. You say you mentioned the secret smoker your neighbor. Was the son there? If he is hiding the smoking from his Mom, she might not realize that her son is the problem. And he may be focusing in Mom not catching him, rather than any problems that you are experiencing as a result.

      Also depending on where the motion light is set up, it can be easy to avoid triggering it. If the light is within reach of a tall person, might be a good idea to check that the light bulb hasn’t been loosened.

    9. Not So NewReader*

      A couple “odd” ideas:

      A good bluff: Tell the mom IN FRONT of the son in question that you are concerned about the butts and paraphernalia in the back yard. Tell her that you are going to the police for assistance.

      This bluff might end the problem or it might end temporarily.

      Guard duty: Tell mom that you want the two of you or someone of her choice to sit outside together and see what is happening. Bring your cell phones.

      This might work if mom has NO clue son has a drug habit OR if you both find out it’s not the son. If mom knows that her son has a habit then this will just be one more problem in a lengthy list of problems.

      I’d opt for going back to the LL and telling him the motion light does nothing. It’s his problem actually. If he made the back yard less secluded that would probably solve the bulk of the problems.

    10. Dwight Schrute*

      Ok so in our rental we’ve hung cameras inside that point at our door which has a window or our our windows into the yard so we can see whatever is out there without having to hang something outside. Not sure if it would work for your space but we’ve done it in two rentals and it’s worked for us!

    11. MMB*

      The Ring cameras are fairly affordable, they have indoor & outdoor models, are easy to install, and some have a solar battery. Mine works great. It also has a motion activated light and will send an alert to your phone whenever it’s triggered. When I got mine it did require an iphone 7 or newer or other Smart device I’m not sure if that is still the case but their website is easy to navigate and should answer any questions you have.

  28. Enough About Us!*

    Going on anon for this one…TL;DR, my husband makes a lot of ethnic comments about our people and it bothers me, but I don’t know how to talk to him about it.

    So my husband and I are from the same small ethnic group. I’ve noticed that he makes a lot of references to our ethnic group. He points out every single person (in our workplaces, on TV, in the news) who likely belongs to our group. This is mildly annoying, but whatever. He also makes a lot of comments like, “I mean, that’s a very [our group] move,” or “That place is super [our group]” or describing a situation in terms of how much it conforms to our group. He isn’t saying bad things–he’s actually really positive about our group.

    But this bothers me for a few reasons. One, he’s often just talking about how much something conforms to stereotypes about us, which, frankly, there’s a limit to how many jokes-but-not-really I want to hear about that. A lot of the stereotypes that he’s repeating–and identifying with–are ones that don’t include me and my experience of our culture. Second, sometimes, he isn’t even talking about stereotypes! Sometimes, it’s just a thing that my partner likes, and he’ll say that it’s super [our group]. It’s not. It’s just a thing that he likes. Or it’s how he experiences our culture, and he’s applying a universal stamp to it.

    I don’t know how to talk about it. I do think there’s room for in-group jokes and comments and I sometimes do it too. It wouldn’t be fair to say, “You can only make those kinds of comments in the quantity that I make them, which is the right amount.” And I think some of my partner’s enthusiasm for talking about our group is because he came to engage with our culture later in life, and hasn’t had a partner who shared his identity before, while I grew up in a more traditional immigrant family. So he’s excited to share this with me! But it’s starting to really bother me. I know the solution is to talk about it, but I’m unsure of how to frame it.

    I appreciate advice from all of you, and I’d particularly like to hear from people who are from minority groups (ethnic, LBGTQ, etc.)

    1. Courageous cat*

      “And I think some of my partner’s enthusiasm for talking about our group is because he came to engage with our culture later in life, and hasn’t had a partner who shared his identity before, while I grew up in a more traditional immigrant family. So he’s excited to share this with me! But it’s starting to really bother me. ”

      Just say a version of this to him! Like, you totally understand where he’s coming from, but regardless – it’s starting to bother you happening so frequently. You don’t have to have the world’s most perfect airtight or perfect justification – he should want to stop/tone down something that’s truly bothering you, regardless of why.

    2. LGC*

      Hi, I’m a unicorn (Black, gay, AND on the spectrum – I couldn’t choose how I wanted to be discriminated against so I chose the combo platter)! And, obviously, I’m not above making jokes about my affinity groups.

      To provide advice: point out the general pattern to him. To paraphrase The Youths™ on the TikToks: being [your ethnic group] is not a personality trait. I don’t think he means any harm, but it does feel a little stifling to be told that you should like x, y, and z just because of something you’re born as. Just based off of what you wrote, I’m cringing a little in embarrassment at your husband!

      I think that with my identities – I’ve gone through phases like your husband where I’m extremely aware of my identity but still unsure of the boundaries. Like, it’s only been in the past few years where I’ve become secure enough in being Black (and I’m in my 30s) where I’m not always apologizing for sounding like a White guy. (Funny enough, I think what finally broke me of that habit was me making that joke to my employees and one of them saying, “uh…you really don’t.”)

      Also, this shouldn’t really be on you alone. It sounds like you’re his cultural sounding board – which is a Man Problem, where we tend to put all of our emotional labor on our spouses/families (hi) but that’s probably a discussion for Kali’s post up top – which is a lot to deal with. Is there anyone else that he can share cultural experiences with?

      1. HannahS*

        Thanks for your comment! I think you’re right, that part of the problem is that there isn’t anyone else to share cultural experiences with–in our case, I doubt it’s a Man Problem, and likely because we moved away for my job and there’s a pandemic on. We have no cultural outlet other than each other at the moment! But I think you’ve hit the nail on the head about me feeling stifled by it.

    3. allathian*

      I’m a Swedish-speaking Finn, or rather, a bilingual Finn. My minority status doesn’t show unless I choose to open my mouth and speak Swedish. I’m also not all-in as a member of that minority, because I was raised in a bilingual family, and my Finnish is indistinguishable from that of Finns who only spoke Finnish as children, which isn’t the case for all Swedish-speaking Finns. There are lots of Swedish-Finnish cultural traditions that I don’t identify with at all, because I didn’t grow up with them, and I’ve definitely run out of patience for stereotypes related to Swedish-speaking Finns. No, we aren’t all rich, for a start. Historically, the elite spoke Swedish, and until 1920, university education was only available in Swedish, so there’s a stereotype about Swedish speakers being better off than Finnish speakers, which may have been true in the past but is no longer the case. We’re also raising our son to be bilingual, because knowing more languages can only be a good thing, and it’ll give him more options for his education later. Also, learning more languages is easier if you know at least two as a child.

      When I was growing up, I got some pushback from my mom’s Finnish-speaking side of the family about being a Swedish speaker. I got sick of it when it had gone on long enough, to the point that I found it exhausting to spend time with some of my maternal cousins until they grew tired of it. That said, I expect I’d find it equally exhausting to be told by another Swedish speaker how cool it is to be a member of this minority… I don’t think it’s particularly cool, or uncool for that matter, it’s just a part of my cultural identity.

  29. Thankful for AAM*

    Someone asked in a thread today, what are you doing to handle 9 more months of COVID.
    I thought it might help to crowdsource free things to do online or things you paid for and found to be well worth it. Are there certs you enjoyed or found worth the time and money?
    I’ll post links in the reply.

    1. Thankful for AAM*

      My local uni has some free lectures: https://edify.fau.edu/
      And I get Linked In Learning from my public library. I keep saying I am going to do the A+ cert – maybe saying that publicly will get me going.

    2. Llellayena*

      Has anyone used some of the free online board games for groups? I’ve got a friend group that wants to try a group game via internet and/or zoom. We were thinking Settlers of Catan, but the free online seems to be limited to 3 players (we have 4 or 5) and not all of us have a copy of the game at home. I’d like to offer some other options, this is a group I miss because we usually see each other at work.

      1. Reba*

        We have been using Board game arena. It doesn’t have Catan, but does offer quite a few of the premium/Euro style board games that would check some of the same boxes (e.g. 7 Wonders, Carcassone). The website is not the easiest to navigate IME, and it is helpful to have one member of the group with a premium membership, since the selection of totally free games is limited — it costs like two bucks a month. But the game play has been great. Lately we have been playing Tokaido and I think it works well in the online format!

      2. TX Lizard*

        Colonist.io is a great way to play Catan online. It is much, much better than the Catan Universe online game. I have played with at least 4 people, I think you can play up to 6 for free. Not positive though.

      3. Seeking Second Childhood*

        We’re playing our first online D&D game later today, and my husband the DM is having interface isues with roll20… keep your fingers crossed for us!

    3. Ali G*

      I’m curious if Master Class is worth it? Does anyone have a membership and feel it’s worth this money? I think it’s a few hundred dollars a year.

      1. TextHead*

        I got it as a gift for Christmas. They have a buy one get one deal right now. I haven’t used it yet so can’t speak to that, but I’m excited for it! The cooking lessons interest me most.

      2. Just a PM*

        I’m interested in Masterclass too. What I am curious about is whether the videos are captioned/have captioning. Does anyone know?

      3. Fellow Traveller*

        My friend got Masterclass and she said it was more inspirational than educational. She was actually quite disappointed that she didn’t get more practical knowledge out of it. But she is a musician and perhaps that’s kind of knowledge doesn’t translate as well on the platform.

    4. TextHead*

      There are a lot of free sites with free classes that I’ve been on. Coursera, Khan Academy, Udacity, etc. They have paid classes, too, which I’ve had friends use and enjoy. Duolingo is good for language learning.

      1. Mimmy*

        I just started using Duolingo too but I turned the notifications off because they are relentless!!

        I’ve looked into those other sites you listed too; might revisit them again while I have some downtime between semesters.

    6. Bluebell*

      I miss traveling to NYC so much that I have been doing sessions with New York Adventure club. Sessions are usually 1.5 hours, and they focus on history or art of NY. They are led by tour guides or other experts, and I’ve learned so much! I’ve also done some great Airbnb virtual experiences with friends, particularly ones about street art.

    8. Fellow Traveller*

      I signed up for a drawing class at our local community college that was taught online, and consider it the best money I’ve spent so far. I liked that there was a real community of students and the teacher and we all gave each other feedback on our projects. It wasn’t cheap for me, but I know that seniors can get tuition waivers for community classes; they just pay registration fees.
      Also – our public library has memberships to a lot of online courses (Lynda, Mango, Great Courses, etc.) that you can access for free with your library card. I started a coding class through Lynda.

  30. HannahS*

    Anyone ever grow a miniature citrus tree, in a pot? I’m an apartment-dweller in a cold climate (warm for Canada, but still cold) and I’d like to try it with maybe a dwarf orange or Meyer lemon. What age tree did you start with? How difficult was it? I’ve successfully grown tomatoes, beans, and herbs in pots before, but otherwise have little experience.

    1. Aurora Leigh*

      We had a lemon tree from Walmart for a year or two. It was about 8 inches tall when we got it. I think what killed it is was that it put on a lemon too young and over stressed itself, but it may have been a lack of care on our part or the stress of re-potting.

    2. Not A Manager*

      My mother had indoor lemon and lime plants for many years. What I remember is, it takes several years for them to fruit, and ours certainly never produced what you would call a “crop.” More like the occasional surprise. The plant is very pretty and the flowers were fun, but I would get it as an ornamental plant and not as a source of citrus fruit.

    3. Artemesia*

      I have two meyer lemons in my living room in Chicago right now. Got them a few months ago and haven’t been through a blooming season yet. One is very healthy and putting out new growth, the other has shown no signs of life although it still has it leaves. I used metal wire to shape them a bit as the branches were sort of jammed together when they arrived.

      I have owned them in the past and had great luck with them flowering a couple of times a year and producing huge fruit – on these tiny trees. The first Christmas we had one, we had 8 big lemons on the tree. When I lived in the south I would put it outside in summer and it really loved that. Now I live in a condo and hope the eastern exposure will be enough for it to be happy indoors. I have also had a key lime tree which produced tons of fruit indoors. Note that it is typical for them to have tons of fruit and then lose most of it when they are olive sized. No idea how to prevent that. And you will need to pollinate the flowers with a little paint brush or Qtip when they bloom so they will set fruit. Good if you have two trees, but it worked with one.

      It is important to plant them so they drain well and not overwater. I use a devise to measure moisture in the soil — you can easily kill trees by having their roots get soggy.

      1. Cats on a Bench*

        I have a lemon tree inside in the midwest. I got it at Home Depot a few years ago. It was maybe a foot tall at the time and in a teeny tiny pot. I re-potted it to the biggest pot I felt confident I could carry in and out (I put the tree outside in the summer). It has grown to be about 3 ft tall now and about 2 ft around all the branches, but I prune them back a bit every other year. When it’s inside I put it near a SW facing window, but that still isn’t enough light during the winter. Citrus fruit needs more hours of light than I get so I got an LED plant light and it helps a ton. I also feed it plant food every now and then. I gave it too much one month and some leaves turned brown and died off so I’m more careful about it now. I think it would like to be re-potted into a bigger pot, but I won’t be able to move it if I do that. I bring it in when night time temps drop into the 40’s consistently.

        It didn’t produce anything the first year, but after that I started to get fruit. Last year I had maybe a dozen lemons. The first couple times it produced it took nearly a year for the fruit to ripen. Increasing the light helped speed that up a bit. This year only had 2 lemons, but I pruned it back when it was flowering so I cut off most of the buds. I had no choice. It started flowering again before I cut all the previous year’s lemons off but I needed to move it out of the house and it’s easier to move after being pruned. I think adding a light source is what caused it to start flowering again sooner than I expected. Now I still have 1 lemon that is about ready to come off the tree and it’s already got a bunch of flowers on it again! I suspect if it has continuous light it just continuously produces. I love the smell when it’s blooming! But I’m the only one in the house who smells it so you have to have a good nose to notice it.

        1. Cats on a Bench*

          oops I meant this to be a reply to HannahS

          Although, I should add that I thought I would have to pollinate my flowers since I only have 1 tree. I used a Q-tip the first year or two, but then got lazy and didn’t do it again. I still got lemons some how!

  31. Red Flannels*

    A musing on a quiet winter weekend: when you wear long underwear, do you also wear regular underpants under the long johns? I asked some (women) friends and they all said they did. But why? Are the long underpants not still underpants?
    I’m strangely curious about this. Is the difference gendered, or regional, or cultural? Or maybe I’m the only one with only one layer of undies?

    1. Aurora Leigh*

      Well what I think of long John’s are the waffle weave that would not be very comfortable against more sensitive skin that underpants cover lol. I suppose the silk type ones would be more comfortable but there’s usually still a seam in the crotch that would rub.

    3. fposte*

      I double layer too, but I have had the same question myself, so I’m glad you asked. I treat them more as a sport base layer, so they may get reused before washing and, as noted, they don’t have a cotton crotch.

    4. RagingADHD*

      Ive always considered thermals as a clothing layer, not a body layer.

      I have a lot more underpants than longjohns. If I laundered the thermals after every wearing, I’d be doing a lot more laundry. But if I wasn’t wearing a body layer, re-wearing them would be unsanitary.

      Also, period pads and pantiliners don’t stay in place properly in thermals.

      1. Traffic_Spiral*

        This. Longjohns, tights, spanx, thermals, etc. are all outer layers that you wouldn’t wash after every use (especially because you probably take them off the minute you get home). Hence, you’d have underwear.

      2. allathian*

        Yeah, this. I don’t want to wash my long johns/leggings every day, I don’t have that many pairs of them for a start. In winter, I mostly wear those at home, like I would wear leggings, and put on a pair of jeans when I go out or if we have guests (obviously not an issue this year). In summer, I wear a pair of loose house pants at home.

        My husband has long johns with a fly, so he wears them as underwear. But he also has enough pairs that he can use them for one day and then put them in the laundry basket. But he only wears them if it’s truly cold out, like -20 C (below zero F).

    5. Grace*

      Yeah, like RADHD said – I count thermal layers as a clothing layer, not an underwear layer. They’re basically just leggings, and I wouldn’t wear leggings without normal underwear underneath. I know some people call them long underwear (a regional thing? I only ever see them called thermal layers) but I would never consider them a replacement for underwear.

    6. I'm A Little Teapot*

      I do, because I find that the long underwear isn’t actually functional to wear as underwear (think women’s hygiene needs), plus there’s a seam that isn’t comfortable. And if I’m wearing long underwear, it’s because it’s cold so an extra layer is not a problem. I haven’t asked any men though.

      1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

        My husband wears heattech type long johns rather than the traditional waffle weave ones, but he wears his regular drawers underneath them.

    8. Colette*

      I used to wear 2 layers; I’ve started wearing one, which works for me. (I do wash them every use.)

    9. Double A*

      I wash underwear after every use, even a short one. I don’t necessarily wash long underwear every time, but I would need to if I wasn’t wearing underwear! Definitely think of them more as pants, just pants that you layer.

    10. Homophone Hatty*

      My thermals are mostly cotton or wool so breathability isn’t an issue, but I usually wear thermals several days in a row so I need to wear a pair of panties underneath to keep the thermals clean. Also period stuff, as others here have said.

      I’m a cis woman for the record.

    12. Artemesia*

      I don’t launder my long johns — wool or silks every time I wear them. They are expensive and laundering is hard on them. So I always wear underpants which do get washed every day. I have a mesh bag I use to launder them when I am doing a load as I hate to do hand washing.

    14. Miss Pantalones En Fuego*

      Yes, because all my long underwear is more like loose leggings and doesn’t fit in the same way as underpants do.

  32. Anon because identifiable*

    I just need to rant into the void for a minute. Been trying to stay positive at home, so this can go here.

    I’ve been working from home since April, and have been great about social distancing and being safe. The wife and I finally cracked and agreed to visit family for Xmas, because I am basically forgetting how to interact with other humans at this point. We quarantined to minimize risk, and were going to wear masks the whole visit.

    The *day before* we head down there, news comes in that a relative who dropped in last week has tested positive, so now it’s just the wife and I alone for the holiday. We make do the best we can.

    Xmas day, my wife’s mother decides at the last minute that we are indeed worth a short visit before going to the more important celebration at the wife’s brother’s girlfriend’s parents’ place (not kidding). Since she has no sense of time, this gets pushed back and back until I assume she’s not coming and start cooking Xmas dinner for two (and lots of leftovers).

    Literally the *minute* I pull the last sides out of the oven, the doorbell rings. Oh no, she doesn’t want to eat with us; see above re: more important event at the girlfriend’s parents’. She just wants to sit and chat for an hour while our turkey turns into rawhide.

    1. Anon because identifiable*

      Clarification: the positive relative was at the place we were going to, not our house. I do in fact know what quarantine is.

    2. fposte*

      Oof. But this also sounds like it could be an an Ask vs. Guess mismatch with a dash of over-pleasing. If MIL says she’s stopping by, you get to say “No,” or “Great! We can see you between 1 and 2” and you get to go ahead and eat if she turns up at the wrong time. It sounds like the day got turned into what’s convenient for MIL, and you don’t have to do that. Are you and your partner on the same page here?

      1. Anon because identifiable*

        No, we’re not, unfortunately. I would have turned her adrift without a second thought, but I also don’t want to upset my partner on Christmas Day.

        Survivable, just annoying.

        1. fposte*

          Ah, yes, that’s a different matter. Maybe you can at least split the difference in future by dishing up and eating when the food is ready and letting the (potato) chips fall how they may.

          2. Anon because identifiable*

            I see your point; that would have been a better way to handle it. Pretty sure my way approached maximum hangry.

    3. Asenath*

      I’d say blandly “Then you won’t mind if we go ahead before the food gets cold. Would you like a cup of tea while we’re eating?” but since this is an mother-in-law and not a mother, you may have to be more tactful or at least have the approval of your wife.

      But then, I really have no patience with people who turn up extremely late, with no calls or texts or emergencies, and then are surprised/annoyed if the hungry relatives eat before they arrive (or, in this case, don’t let them eat at all).

      1. Anon because identifiable*

        Marvelous.

        I’m bad at these kind of polite responses that still get the point across.

    4. Artemesia*

      Sorry your Christmas got blown up and happy that your other relatives were responsible enough to call a halt. My daughter’s MIL was hosting her daughters and their kids and had a big turkey — and then one of the grandkids was exposed and so they had to call it off last minute too.

      The drop in dinner ruiner — I’d have been tempted to eat dinner while we chatted and give them cocktails — but it is hard to know what to do when faced with clods.

      1. Anon because identifiable*

        Thank you.

        And yes, in retrospect, I wish we had done that. Might have driven the point home, if nothing else.

    5. The New Wanderer*

      Solidarity. My husband’s relatives don’t call often but when they do, it’s always, always during dinner time. He’ll answer but I just don’t stop what I’m doing, whether it’s dinner prep or actually eating. What kills me is they always ask whether they’re interrupting dinner and he says yes and so the call only goes on for 5-10 minutes, but seriously? Pick a different time to call! If it lasted an hour and I was expected to chat too, I would be very unhappy.

      1. Anon because identifiable*

        Ugh, I’m sorry. You’d think after a few times they’d learn! Almost makes me wonder if it’s an intentional strategy to keep the calls short.

      2. Traffic_Spiral*

        Why not just have a “no calls at the dinner table” policy? Either don’t pick up or go “sorry, we’re eating dinner, I’ll call you back,” and hang up. Seems like he’s contributing 50% to this issue by going along with it.

        1. Washi*

          Yes, everyone has a different dinner time! I have friends who eat at 5 and friends who eat at 8. I know what time my parents eat and don’t call then, but otherwise I tend to just call people when it’s convenient for me and assume that if they can’t talk, they won’t answer the phone (or will answer long enough to arrange another time to talk.)

        2. AvonLady Barksdale*

          Yup. The phone is for your convenience and use, it’s something you (the recipient of the call) can also control. Very few things piss me off like my mother picking up the phone when I call and saying, “I can’t talk right now, what is it?” If you’re busy, don’t pick up the phone!

          I admit it took me a while– and a cell phone– to fully realize this, but I have no problem letting the phone go to voice mail. If it’s important, they’ll leave a message, text, or call back.

      3. Nope.*

        I think it’s a bit much to expect everyone else to know when your dinner time is, as that widely varies. A ringing phone is not a mandatory request to answer. This is a discussion you need to have with your husband, about not answering.

      4. Ramona Q*

        They probably assume that if the time was inconvenient for him, he wouldn’t be taking their calls.

      5. The Other Dawn*

        I really don’t think it’s on them to pick a different time to call. People eat dinner at different times–what’s really late to me (after 7 pm) is on-time or early for other people. All your husband has to do is not answer the phone during dinner. Problem solved.

    6. Traffic_Spiral*

      ” I assume she’s not coming and start cooking Xmas dinner for two… Literally the *minute* I pull the last sides out of the oven”

      How long did it take you to cook that turkey?

      1. Anon because identifiable*

        Two and a half hours (Butterball, not a whole turkey for just us). This was not a delay of a few minutes.

        1. Traffic_Spiral*

          Adulting Tip: pour her a drink and make a plate of crackers/appetizers for her, then continue on with your meal.

  33. Lcsa99*

    Cross stitchers – just out of curiosity, if the next spot for a color your working on is far enough away, do you cut and start at again at the next spot or do you just reach and have a long strand on the back? Its been decades since I’ve worked on a project and I just can’t recall. I am worried about running out of the thread if I stretch, but also worried about the ends being more likely to come undone if I keep cutting.

    1. I'm A Little Teapot*

      I needlepoint, which is similar to cross stitch. It depends. If the distance is shorter than the amount of yard required to cut and move, then I just reach. My strand then gets buried anyway (I cover the entire canvas).

    2. Venus*

      I cut and start again if the distance is greater than the length of two needles, so I would waste a lot of thread if I stretched. There should be enough thread either way, but I find cutting is cleaner for long stretches.

    3. Valancy Snaith*

      If it’s longer than the length of a needle I cut it. The way I was taught is to snake the end under an existing stitch and then clip it very close, that way the thread stays in place. I don’t like to have long strings, they show through the fabric.

    4. Asenath*

      It depends on how far away the next stitch in that colour is. I think I used to end a new thread and start another one if I was more than than a few stitches away from the new spot – enough stitches that I could fasten off the ends securely by sliding them under existing stitches. Stretches of unsecured thread on the back were a no-no, and also were a real nuisance when you had to stitch over and around them. I confess I never reached the ideal state in which the back was as neat as the front.

    5. Lcsa99*

      Thanks everyone. This is all reassuring. I have been cutting when its about a needle length apart and tucking. I am just a worrier so I wanted to make sure :)

    6. Grapey*

      I do the long reach unless it will be visible through the front e.g. a long black thread under a to-be-done light area…shows up pretty visibly in the end product :/

    7. Buni*

      I do it purely on the maths: would the stretch be longer than the cut-‘n’-restart? I’m more willing to stretch if it’s under a space I know I’m going to fill in later, i.e. the long stretch will be trapped under later stitches.

  34. Love is love*

    Suggestions for LGBT YA lit for a high schooler who loves fantasy & animals & chemistry? No horror, and no tragic ending (not this year at least).

    2. AGD*

      I haven’t read any of these yet and can’t attest to the endings, but here are a few newish titles on my radar, in descending order of possible good match:

      Master of One by Jaida Jones and Dani Bennett (fantasy adventure with an LGBTQ+ romance and I think some alchemy/metalworking stuff).
      Ruinsong by Julia Ember (also a fantasy adventure with an LGBTQ+ romance).
      The Mermaid, The Witch, and the Sea by Maggie Tokuda-Hall (genderfluid protagonist + fantasy + high seas).
      Dreadnought by April Daniels (trans protagonist + superhero origin story).

    3. Not A Manager*

      Alison recommended the House On The Cerulean Sea earlier this year. I think it ticks most of those boxes.

      1. Cruciatus*

        Yes, this is what I was going to suggest. I have read it and I think it might even be YA, but even if not, I think it would be perfectly appropriate for a high school student. It was just a nice read for a pandemic year and I’ve asked my library to look into more of this author’s books.

    4. Cheesesteak in Paradise*

      House on the Cerulean Sea – about an orphanage for magical children and a love story between two men

    5. Disco Janet*

      Highly recommend the Carry On series by Rainbow Rowell! LGBTQ Fantasy YA and my students (I teach sophomores and juniors) who have read it loved it.

    6. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      I would consider the Wayward Children series by Seanan McGuire – they’re a series of portal fantasy, about children who go through doors into other worlds and then come back. I don’t think they would qualify as horror, though there are a few dark bits here and there and the first one has a murder mystery in it. They have characters that are L, G, B and T, as I recall, as well as asexual and agender. Extremely inclusive, and so so well written.

    7. LDF*

      I’m a big fan of the Nightrunner Series for fantasy. It’s not YA, just general fantasy, but it’s fine for a high schooler imo. Not sure what the bar is for tragic things but while characters die, the 2 main characters are alive and happy at the end.

  35. NeonDreams*

    Hi AAM! Anyone have a suggestion in what to look for in curtains? My brother and I are renting an apartment and our living room is freezing this winter. I realize this won’t completely solve the issue, but I’d like to buy something to filter the air.

    1. Colette*

      You can buy insulating curtains. They also make plastic kits for insulating windows – you use a hair dryer to apply it.

      1. RagingADHD*

        We use the window plastic until we can afford replacing the old inefficient windows.

        They are surprisingly effective, as long as you have a good air gap.

    2. Artemesia*

      I’d look at those sealing kits. I sealed our leaky windows with packing tape and it made a huge difference (we have sense replaced the windows). But they also make kits where you seal the entire window with a plastic sheet — like creating double windows. Just sealing the edges really helped here when it was 5F outside and windy.

      there are drapes that have insulated backing and those might help but I bet sealing the windows is most important (be sure you have a fire escape plan if you seal everything up)

      1. General von Klinkerhoffen*

        Yes, we have gradually been replacing ours with “thermal blackout” curtains and I love them. They aren’t super stylish, just plain block colours, but you can get them in any colour and size, and they make an appreciable difference to the warmth of the room (eg the thaw zone outside the window on a frosty/snowy day became far smaller). We got ours cheaply from Amazon but they are available all over at various price points.

    4. Notthemomma*

      I lived in a drafty old farmhouse…drafty even after the plastic sealing. :-(
      Consider the length of the curtains relative to the window. For me, I choose floor length, that also went a couple inches above the top sill and wider thanks the sides. Keep in mind the heavy thermal curtains will also block most of your light, so have some good light sources. They will also block some sound too. If you find they aren’t quite enough, you can also hang a blanket or similar weight in addition to the curtain. Keep them closed as much as possible as that’s also where the heat ($$$) is escaping

    5. Seeking Second Childhood*

      The house I rented after college, my room was much colder than the rest of the house. It had hooks in the molding already, so I added a few more, and hung a heavy bedspread as a tapestry on the outside wall. I even covered the window, but not the heating vent. It made a big difference. (We figured out later that my room was originally a porch, so it was less insulated than the rest of the house.)

  36. WeAreTheJunimos*

    Does anyone have recommendations for a pillow they like? I’m in the market for a new one and have no idea where to begin. For reference, I’m a side sleeper that prefers a pillow on the firmer side. I’d like it to have some height as well.

    2. TextHead*

      I bought the Royal Therapy Memory Foam Pillow from Amazon. It’s one of the better ones I’ve had and you can adjust the height on it.

    4. Dwight Schrute*

      I’d suggest watching pillow reviews from Freaking Reviews! He goes really in depth on the pillows he reviews and he has several videos on them!

    5. Seeking Second Childhood*

      Late life convert to feather here. As the feathers crumple from use & laundering, I go down a pillowcase size to get back some height. I’m about to stuff the smallest into a sofa throw pillow. (Quarantine craft project!)

    6. Call me St. Vincent*

      I like Buffy pillows. We got them for my daughters bed but they were sold out in king so my husband and I got Brooklinen for us. I much prefer the Buffy pillows and am even thinking of getting them if they go on sale again next year even though we just got the Brooklinen ones. The Buffy pillows are actually less expensive than the ones we got but much more comfy in my view! I also have the Buffy comforter and I love it.

      1. Dwight Schrute*

        Oh I just got Buffy sheets for Christmas and they are heavenly! By far the best sheets I’ve ever slept on

    7. Joanne’s Daughter*

      Rejuvenation Pillow with Organic Millet Hulls and Natural Wool. I love this pillow, you can adjust the amount of millet to be as firm or soft as you like. It contours to your neck and shoulders so you never wake up with a stiff neck.

    8. specialK*

      Side sleeper here too and I recommend Pacific Coast Double Down Around. I’ve had mine for years now and still super comfy. I think they have different firmness levels to choose from.

  37. Potatoes gonna potate*

    Questions to ask prior to joining a gym, COVID and non-COVID related…

    So I know things are different this year but I am just curious – since new year is approaching is anyone still planning on joining a gym? If so, what do you look for prior to joining?

    I was part of a major chain for 5+ years but I am looking for a new chain for various reasons. I have two chains near me that are at a feasible price point.

    Normally I would just dive right in to joining but I’m curious how gyms will fare with the new year now. I plan to visit my local ones to tour and some of the things I plan to ask are –

    what did they do during the initial lockdown (did they suspend payments or pull a NYSC and ghost everyone)

    what are they doing now to ensure safety

    what happens in case of another lockdown (I’m unaware if there’s any pending). etc.

    One of them offers group classes while the other does not. Although i doubt group classes are taking place. any other questions I should be asking?

    1. Dan*

      I go to my gym pretty much daily, but I didn’t start until this summer, after our first lock down happened. First things first, I think it’s important to note that you really are going to enter at your own risk. My gym is still holding classes, but they’re capped at 10 people. (I think the room has a posted 60 person limit or something like that, so 10 is quite a reduction.)

      My gym uses an air filtration system called airPHX. I don’t know how effective it is at mitigating COVID, I’ve tried googling independent research but I can’t find anything one way or the other. (And TBH, even if I found one study, I’d really want to see three or four independent studies before I believed anything.) However, you can at least ask if either gym is using an air filtration system.

      Another thing I would do that doesn’t require any questions… just go during a time of day you are likely to go, and look at how packed it is. You can then get a sense out of how distanced people are, and how many people are wearing masks. My gym has every other piece of cardio equipment blocked off. And TBH, mask usage at my gym is *way* higher than I ever thought it would be.

      IMHO, I doubt that we’ll see another lockdown. For one thing, the political blow back is going to be pretty strong (and let’s be honest… if we thought going to the gym is too risky, then we can just not go, yes?) The other thing is, with many of us working from home, there are long term health consequences to sitting on our behinds all day. What I do think is much more likely is that gyms could see some pretty strict occupancy caps. Which could actually make membership issues even more tough, because if the gym is technically open, but always too full to let everybody in, then what? So I don’t think you’ll get any straight answers, and the only thing that really matters is what your contract says.

      FWIW, I go to the gym at the end of the day. Most days, there’s always people in there, but it’s quiet enough where we can spread out and I don’t worry about it too much. I’m more worried about the COVID 19 lbs that I get setting on my butt if I *don’t* go to the gym.

      1. Potatoes gonna potate*

        Thanks for the detailed reply. I plan to call tomorrow and visit during the week during when I’d typically go. I will be sitting out this tax season to focus on my health. I’m feeling crappy most days and I know getting out of the house and exercising will help me feel better.

      2. Bluephone*

        Pennsylvania actually just closed its gyms/health clubs again following a spike in COVID cases, until mid? January at the earliest. They also banned indoor dining, but a lot of other stuff is still open. So that’s something to be aware of too depending on where you are—your state or municipality might suddenly ban some activities but not all, and gyms could be included in the ban. And the owners could decide not to comply so then you’re still being charged for a gym that you technically should not be going to.

    2. LAMM*

      One thing to keep in mind is the people you talk to might not know what will happen with another possible lockdown. I have two jobs in two different industries (retail and elective surgery). In either job, we weren’t privvy to what the plans during the lockdowns were until everyone else was

    3. *daha**

      When my gym reopened after the Governor lifted the closedown order, I quit my membership. I just don’t see how it can be safe for to do 40 minutes of heavy panting in a room full of other people panting heavily, regardless of distance or masking. So there’s that.
      My gym was Planet Fitness. I will happily consider going back after I am vaccinated, depending on medical advice. Planet Fitness is great for someone who is self-motivated. They have classes to teach you how to use the equipment, and that’s about it as far as group activities go. The ones that I went to had new equipment and kept it maintained well. They have locker rooms and showers. I paid $10/month and went pretty much daily. I was allowed to go only to my “home” gym. The contract that I signed allowed me to quit at any point with no minimum enrollment time or quitting penalty.
      They have a premium membership level that was at $23/month last time I checked. It allows you to go to any Planet Fitness location, not just your home gym, and it allows you to bring a guest with you to your home gym, with some frequency limitation. It also let you use tanning booths (the opposite of healthful!), massaging chairs and tables, a premium lounge, and some sort of weird light+vibration booth.
      I liked that they were open 24 hours and I could go in the middle of the night when it was nearly empty. I think that ended with COVID.

  38. Just a PM*

    If you see a medical specialist/practitioner and have purchased a medical device from them, would you leave their practice while in the middle of a warranty period and needing service/maintenance or stuck it out till the warranty expires and you need new equipment?

    Backstory: I see an audiologist who I chose initially because of her proximity to my then-office. So I want to find another audiologist who has more convenient office hours and is part of a larger practice so I am not beholden to one specific person and her time when I have a problem with my hearing aids. I was going to make the switch in January/February.

    However, I am now having a problem with my hearing aids. Two days ago, one of them died and I cannot hear any sound through it. So it needs to be sent into the manufacturer for repair, per warranty. Now that I need service/repair, I am not sure what I should do: Stick with my current provider through the end of warranty (which I think is January 2022) or make the change now as planned?

    1. RagingADHD*

      The warranty on general consumer goods is usually by the manufacturer, not the retailer. Contact the manufacturer and ask whether it has to be the same audiologist. If they are sending them off for repair, I can’t see why it would be.

      They probably have contracts with a bunch of different audiologists.

  39. aarti*

    So I’m pregnant! It’s fairly early (4-5weeks I would guess) and it was a total fluke that I found out so soon.

    My question is on morning sickness. The past few days I’ve felt a little nauseous, mostly on a empty stomach. But I’ve been able to eat everything and haven’t thrown up. In people’s experience, is pregnancy nausea more likely to develop over the next few weeks?

    1. nuqotw*

      Congratulations!

      It really depends on you but I think of 7 – 14-ish weeks as peak time. Everyone’s different. I didn’t throw up but I was nauseous (especially in the car) and lived on chips, cottage cheese, clementines, and ginger beer when I wasn’t randomly falling alseep from exhaustion. Things got better around 15 weeks.

      You’ll find out how it goes for you.

    2. RagingADHD*

      I never threw up in either pregnancy. I had crushing fatigue in the first, from about 6-12 weeks, but very little nausea.

      With the second, I had frequent morning nausea from about 8-14 weeks (ish). But again, just the sensation, no actual upchucks.

    3. D3*

      not everyone gets bad sickness. My first pregnancy, I never felt actively sick, but I also never had much appetite. The next 2 times there were a few things that would trigger nausea but if I avoided them I was fine. No actual vomiting in those pregnancies. The last time was my “hardest” and food was just really unappealing. If I cooked it, I couldn’t eat it, I would be just so sick of looking at it. So we either did takeout or my partner did ALL the cooking. I also threw up once in that pregnancy.

      Congratulations, and here’s hoping it stays mild for you! May the rest of your pregnancy be boring and drama free.

    4. Fellow Traveller*

      Congratulations! How exciting!
      I had a lot of nausea in my first trimester but only threw up a couple times. Often it was after trying to get down one of those huge prenatal vitamins. For me, the nausea did get worse through the first trimester, but then got better once into the second trimester. With my last pregnancy, during the end of my first trimester I ordered a two pound bag of hard ginger candy as it was the only thing that seemed to calm my stomach. But I never got through the bag because I started to feel better the week after it arrived. I also ate a lot of plain toast.

    5. The New Wanderer*

      I had all day nausea from about week 8 til week 14 with both pregnancies. Never threw up, just felt terrible and nothing worked on the nausea except for mint tea (herbal or caffeinated tea blend, iced or hot, any version of mint worked). I drank gallons of mint tea but as long as I did, I felt totally fine.

      1. Generic Name*

        Mint tea! For me the only thing that seemed to keep my nausea at bay was sucking on lemon heads.

    6. Anona*

      I had occasional nausea in the afternoons, but never anything that bad. I think it developed a little later.

    7. Jules the First*

      Congrats! I’m about 12 weeks ahead of you and yes, I got morning sickness that early. I had a few short bouts (a couple of hours) that were genuinely horrific, but mostly it was all-day queasiness from about 6 weeks on. I did throw up a couple of times, but concluded that Bump is *not* a fan of leafy greens and when we stopped trying to eat those, I stopped throwing up. The queasies mostly stopped around 14 weeks, which I was grateful for as nothing worked (nibbling constantly, not nibbling, snacking, not snacking, eating more, eating less, mint, citrus, ginger, dry carbs, fatty carbs, protein, veggies…yes, I tried everything!). Don’t be afraid to talk to your doctor if it gets bad – there are things you can try which are very safe, and gets bad is either nausea that’s making you miserable or vomiting more than a couple of times a day for several days a week. (Lots of women suffer in silence because they don’t think theirs is “bad enough”…) I didn’t because we knew going into this that the drugs wouldn’t work on me, so they don’t work for everyone, but usually worth trying.

    9. Cambridge Comma*

      Everyone is different, so it’s hard to predict, unfortunately.
      Not ever having an empty stomach is a legitimate approach; small glasses of milk here and there can help.

    10. Disco Janet*

      Congratulations!! Totally depends on the person. I didn’t start feeling nauseous until around week 6, but it quickly spiraled into hypermedia gravitating (the one where you’re constantly vomiting and end up having multiple hospital visits for IV fluids. Fun times.) A friend started sometimes feeling sick around the same time, but she never actually got ill – just sometimes felt nauseous. Varies so much person to person – best of luck!

    11. rkz*

      Congratulations! Mine did get worse, but I never really threw up. I carried ginger chews around a lot and there were some foods I found made me feel nauseous so I stopped eating then. I think it probably peaked around 12-14 weeks and then went away.

    12. Generic Name*

      Congrats! With my last pregnancy, I didn’t start feeling morning sickness until maybe 6 or 8 weeks along? I don’t remember exactly. I found out I was pregnant when I was about 5 weeks along (so after missing a period), and I remember feeling fine for a week or two and then I started having food aversions and then morning sickness. I actually told my boss earlier than planned because the morning sickness was so bad I was worried about my work performance (I was getting into the office much later than usual).

    13. General von Klinkerhoffen*

      Congratulations!

      I had pretty bad morning sickness with all my pregnancies, but not much before 6 weeks. I was unlucky to continue with sickness to about 18w, 24w and 21w respectively with my full term pregnancies, but the worst phase was always 6-12w and most people don’t still suffer into the second trimester. I basically felt horribly hungover for months…

      For me, what worked was to be physically sick. If I tried to suppress it, I felt worse. First thing in the morning I would drink a large glass of water, then revisit it, and then I’d be “only” mildly nauseous for the rest of the day. YMMV here but perhaps don’t treat it like “normal” sickness.

      You may find that your appetite suffers. This is separate to cravings. I’d recommend eating exactly what you want when it comes to your mind if you find that normal food patterns are unappealing. So what if you eat only wholegrain pasta or peeled pears for a week? You’re eating. If you started your pregnancy healthy, you will have ample resources to mitigate a poor diet for a month or two, so long as you eat something vaguely nutritious when you can face it.

      Best of luck.

    14. allathian*

      Congrats! I never threw up either, I just felt vaguely nauseous much of the time for the first trimester, but it passed after that. My husband would bring a dry rye cracker to bed for me in the morning, so I could get something in me without getting up. That seemed to help. I started feeling nauseous around the time when I got a positive pregnancy test, so around 5 or 6 weeks. I couldn’t stand the smell of coffee, cooked liver, or raw fish, things that pregnant women should avoid anyway.

  40. Beans are green*

    Anyone else enjoying Netflix’s BRIDGERTON? I read a number of the books in the series years ago. I am loving the storylines, the costumes, the sets, and the casting.

    1. Enter_the_Dragonfly*

      I just started this weekend! I’m enjoying the costuming especially, although somewhere in the back of my head Bernadette Banner keeps saying disparaging thing lol. It doesn’t hurt that it reminds me the Brandy version of Cinderella, a beloved movie of mine, not just in the wonderful ‘everyone’s from everywhere’ casting but with the bright colours as well. The casting is perfect but the plot seems a little thin. I hear the books are better, what do you think?

    2. Hi there*

      I read the books when we first started staying at home in March, which helped me be not terrified all the time. I’ve only watched a few episodes so far but am really enjoying it. The characters are shown really well, and even though there are a lot of them you can pretty much keep track.

    3. Jen Erik*

      Yes, I’m really enjoying it: last episode this evening! I read the books long enough ago that I’ve forgotten the details, which I think always helps when watching an adaption, and the added story-lines are keeping it interesting, because I don’t know quite what’s going to happen.
      Just perfect Christmas viewing. (I’m just sad that presumably it’ll be a long wait for the next series. I hope they can keep the cast together. Especially Eloise. My daughter and I want a whole series where Eloise and the Queen solve crimes together…)

  41. A Non E. Mouse*

    Congrats!

    My morning sickness seemed to peak at 12ish weeks each time. Try to nibble pretty constantly to keep it at bay, dehydration makes it worse, sucking on a mint helped me some. Carby crispy things were good in a pinch (crackers, Pringles, plain potato chips).

    The fatigue is terrible – just rest when your body tells you to, you are not being lazy you are growing a human! I would work, come home and nap, then get up and go to bed.

    My sense of smell was 3000 times normal – so don’t be surprised if you have to ban some foods from the house off and on, due to proximity being enough to trigger your gag reflex. Even foods you actually like could end up on this list for a while, and that’s ok.

    Good luck, take care of yourself!

  42. StudentA*

    If you could have only one smoothie or juice for the rest of your life, what would it be (recipe helpful)?

    1. RagingADHD*

      I make the same breakfast smoothie every time (though I don’t have it every day).

      all measurements approximate:

      -1/2 cup frozen blueberries
      -1 small or 1/2 large banana
      -3-4 Tbs sliced almonds or 1 heaping Tbs almond butter or peanut butter
      -1/2 cup nonfat plain Greek yogurt
      -1 Tbs mixed flax meal & wheat germ (I buy them separate and mix them in a jar I keep in the fridge)
      -1 Tbs unsweetened cocoa powder
      -1 scoop beet powder
      -skim milk to cover the berries & banana.

      It’s not the most delicious thing you ever tasted, but it has a lot of stuff I need and tastes pretty good when you get used to the low level of sweetness.

      1. StudentA*

        I think this would suit me well! I like stuff that’s not too sweet especially for breakfast. Never heard of some of these ingredients. Thank you for sharing!

        1. RagingADHD*

          The beet powder is for the poor circulation in my my fat old lady legs. The flax/wheat germ is partly for beneficial Omega-3 fats, but mostly for a nice big bolus of fiber for my fat old lady digestion.

          You’ll probably want to ease into them gradually – especially the fiber!

    2. Girasol*

      One cup of whole milk, half a cup of cottage cheese, one tablespoon each of frozen orange juice concentrate, peanut butter, and cocoa powder (the bitter baking kind, not instant hot chocolate). Whip that with a stick blender until it’s thick and smooth. It tastes like a chocolate orange shake and it’s high in protein but not too terribly sugary. I make five of these in pint jars on Sunday night and grab one to go each day for breakfast at my desk in the morning.

    3. T. Boone Pickens*

      I have a really similar recipe as RagingADHD. I drink this every week day and it holds really well in a travel tumbler in case you’re interested. Building from the bottom up I go:

      1 cup of milk
      2 cups of spinach (about 2 handfuls from what I’ve found)
      1 cup of blueberries and a few strawberries (both frozen)
      I then pour a splash of milk over the berries and let it sit for a couple minutes to let the fruit thaw a bit.
      Blend on ‘ice’ setting, this will blend up the spinach and the blueberries while sometimes getting the strawberries. I let it sit for a couple minutes to let the strawberries continue to thaw and add in:
      2 spoonfuls of peanut butter
      1 5.3 oz container of greek yogurt
      2 Tbsp of chia seeds
      Blend on ‘ice’ again and then blend as needed to reach desired consistency. If I’m craving a little crunch of some extra sweetness I’ll garnish some granola at the top.

      The above recipe makes about 30 oz which is perfect for me.

  43. Anona*

    Eff. My partner’s mom has covid symptoms today. He saw her for Christmas yesterday. He hasn’t been good at social distancing.

    He saw a friend tonight and they shared a smoke. Then he gets a call that his mom has symptoms.

    We’ve handled the pandemic pretty differently (though I’m not perfect.). He knows I disagree with a lot of things he’s done. Ugh.

    I feel so powerless . It’s not fun being right.

    1. nep*

      That’s terrible. I hope they’ll all be fine. And I hear you.
      (I had a friend email me this weekend that he’s worried I’m on the brink of psychosis (he used that word), based on what he’s heard from a mutual friend (!) about how cautious/careful I’ve been about exposure. )
      Prudence =/= fear or paranoia.)

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Mutual friend should not use a word if they do not fully understand the meaning of the word.

        1. nep*

          This was the ridiculousness of the whole thing–my “friend” who emailed that is serious; he said I should seek help.

          1. nep*

            (What’s also crazy to me is, none of us knows whether we are carrying the virus or not; could be asymptomatic and carrying it. So when I’m being careful around people ‘outside my pod,’ it’s 100% as much for that person’s protection–and to avoid propagation and ICUs filling up–as it is for my own. How do people not get that?)

            1. Not So NewReader*

              Hopefully, your friend does not learn what “after holiday surge” means in a close, personal way.

              Too many times I can hear my FIL’s annoying phrase about “keeping one’s own counsel”. I dislike the phrase because in extremes it can cut a person off from others entirely. But there are so many times in life where keeping our own counsel is exactly what we need to do.

    2. D3*

      Oh, man. I feel you! My partner has been similarly cavalier and it’s been a sticking point. He’s very good about mask wearing. He’s very good about staying away from the people in our life who are high risk. But he’s having weekly lunches in person (!) with his whole work department (!) eating IN restaurants (!) and occasionally carpooling there (!!!)
      I cannot convince him to stop.
      One time, I convinced him not to go because a coworker’s son was having symptoms and awaiting test results. She was not having symptoms and asked the group if she should stay home. The group voted to have her there. That ONE time I managed to convince him to pass it up.
      So far no one has had any symptoms, but it’s driving me crazy.
      And I don’t want to be right.
      I am so sorry you’re dealing with this, it sounds awful! and I hope everything is okay.

      1. nep*

        Sorry you’re having to deal with that. That would drive me nuts too. I don’t understand some people, truly.
        I think some are being cavalier. For some, it seems, there’s this whole ‘I won’t be told what to do’ thing going on. But no one is telling anyone what to do; a contagious, potentially deadly virus is dictating what we have to do to be safe. Jeeeeeez.

    3. LGC*

      I’m so sorry!

      So…can you guys isolate from each other until you find out if his mom has COVID? Unfortunately, “COVID symptoms” don’t always mean COVID – you didn’t say what she had, but it could still be a cold or the flu if she didn’t get her test results yet. I’m hoping that it’s not COVID, though!

      1. Anona*

        She just tested positive, so it’s confirmed and I’m freaking out :/. Our house isn’t that big but I may try sleeping in the guest room.

        2. LGC*

          Hopefully you’ll be fine. Don’t panic! (Easier said than done, I know.)

          It’s really scary, but what I’ve heard of is that:

          1) it usually takes a couple of days before someone becomes contagious, so separating now is good
          2) usually you should get tested 3-5 days after exposure for the most reliable results
          3) most important, you’re not inevitably going to get sick! I’ve heard that on average, something like 20% of people in the same household get infected if someone else is infected. (Anecdotally, my boss’s husband had COVID this spring and she didn’t get sick.) You are going to have to be careful, but you’re not doomed to COVID.

          I hope and pray that everyone is fine and that your boyfriend didn’t get infected. Definitely sleep in the guest bedroom (or keep HIM in the guest bedroom), and wear masks when you’re in common areas. So basically treat him like a stranger for the next week or two.

            1. allathian*

              I hope your partner doesn’t test positive and that he’ll be more prudent in future. Good luck!

  44. kindaAnonToday*

    I’ve been feeling so tired (occasionally shaky) lately (since Nov. at least). Then sometimes at night, I have problems getting to sleep, mostly don’t seem to get comfortable.

    Is this something that stress can do? Or maybe feeling lonely? I live alone, work from home, am being careful about social distancing. I’m mainly worried about getting enough work done.

    1. nep*

      Stress can affect our bodies in so many ways, and this could be stress. Nutrition and hydration also come to mind. Getting enough water, vitamins/minerals? Do you eat greens on a regular basis?
      Have you ever tried listening to a guided meditation at night?
      May you find some relief, and ways to mitigate the stress.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        So agree. This sounds like a mineral loss, the shakes and the lack of sleep Stress pulls vitamins and minerals out of the body at a high clip.

        You could try a drink with electrolytes in it. I am also a big fan of raw veggies. You can blend some veggies and drink them or make them into a soup- either one would help your body absorb missing nutrients faster as the foods are broken down.

    2. RagingADHD*

      Exhausted, shaky, and sleepless = go to the doctor for a checkup. Might be something that needs medical attention. Could also be stress, could be part of a self-reinforcing pattern:

      Stress makes it hard to sleep.
      Poor sleep makes you tired and unfocused.
      Fatigue makes it harder to be productive, and harder to cope with stress.
      Fatigue + increased stress makes it harder to keep up with physical care (nutrition, water, exercise)
      Lack of physical care makes it harder to deal with stress and also interferes with sleep.

      It can be a real crappy feedback loop. The good news is that every tiny thing you can improve in that matrix will show benefits pretty quickly.

      But certainly see your doc for bloodwork and an exam. A lot of stuff, like low iron or blood sugar problems can be found & treated or ruled out.

      1. PollyQ*

        ^THIS. Yes, it could “just” be stress, or the general exhaustion that comes this time of year, but it could also be a symptom of something else, so I encourage kindaAnonToday to go in and get it checked out.

    3. Penny Parker*

      I would suggest to get your vit d levels checked. My son had the same problems and when he started taking a vit d supplement the problems went away. Your doc can test your levels.

      1. allathian*

        There’s also some evidence that otherwise healthy people who need hospitalization for COVID have a vitamin D deficiency, although the evidence is so far inconclusive to the point that medical authorities aren’t yet at least recommending vitamin D supplements to help lessen the risk of serious COVID infections. That said, vitamin D is good for other reasons.

    4. LGC*

      I’m going to say this as kindly as possible: worry less about getting enough work done, and reach out to whoever you can. Insomnia, exhaustion, and shakiness can all be symptoms of stress, and maybe I’m reading too far into this – but you sound like you’re pretty isolated.

    5. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

      I was having a lot of issues with insomnia through November and into December. While I have a condition that does have insomnia as a side effect, this hadn’t been an issue in the past. Then I realized that what it really was, was boredom. My job wasn’t very challenging and as I have to isolate a lot due to said condition, I didn’t really have a lot of chance for mental stimulus or interaction with other people outside of my partner. I was due to switch to a new, more challenging role in early December and as soon as that happened, along with Christmas planning and doing, the insomnia resolved almost right away.

      Boredom can also be a source of stress too, so maybe try to shake it up a bit with a call to a friend or a Zoom game or a complex new project, anything to get the brain moving differently for longer than an hour. Exercise can be helpful, but not even that was really fixing my problem. However, if you aren’t doing a lot of that now, its a good place to start.

  46. Grizabella the Glamour Cat*

    Am I the only one having trouble with video ads suddenly starting to play when scrolling up and down this site? Just wondering. I am using a touch screen, and it’s recently become hard to scroll without accidentally making one of those start up. (At least I assume that’s what’s causing them to start playing.) I usually end up turning the sound off when I come here, so I’m not startled by the soundtrack of a video suddenly starting up when I least expect it. (Then later on, I’ll be trying to watch a video and it’ll take me a moment to remember why there’s no sound, ha!)

    Also, there are smaller video ads that pop up and cover part of the screen sometimes. They don’t take up a lot of space, but on my tablet, it’s enough to be annoying, especially when clicking on the “x” to close them doesn’t always work. :-/

    Don’t get me wrong: I totally understand and support Alison’s need and right to have ads on here! They’ve suddenly become more intrusive than they ever were before, though, and it’s kind of…. getting to me. I’m wondering if it’s just me or not. (If it matters, I’m using an Android tablet.)

    1. RagingADHD*

      Nope, not just you. The ads are rampant and intrusive. I can only use the site with an adblocking browser. It is completely unreadable on Chrome mobile.

      Like, constant covering the screen and making the content jump around. Totally unuseable.

    2. Sorla*

      No, it’s not just you. The ads here are a nightmare. They’re intrusive, difficult to dismiss (especially as you say when clicking the x doesn’t work, or when clicking it activates the links it’s layered over instead :/), auto play video is an ugly and distracting mess and I find it almost impossible to navigate. I’ve reported issues several times but nothing ever changes, so I assume this is how it is intended to be, as weird as that seems to me.

      There are so many sites that do ads well these days, where I’m happy to turn off AdBlocker on the laptop. I wish this was one of them. As it is, I can’t use the site at all without AdBlocker on the laptop, and on my iPad (which I typically use for casual browsing) I struggle a lot. It’s very frustrating.

    3. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      Nope, not just you. They’re not quite AS bad on my laptop, though still really obnoxious, and my adblocker apparently doesn’t catch the popover video style ads so I still have to manually close them in order to be able to read anything, but make the site practically unusable on my iPad.

    4. Beans are green*

      AAM mentioned last week that ad options have really dried up during the pandemic, forcing her to accept more video ads. She said they *should* be set to mute, though, and to use the contact link to alert her if an ad is playing sound automatically.

    5. The teapots are on fire*

      I’m using Firefox and on my larger monitor the ad just sits there silently in the corner.

    6. Voluptuousfire*

      I have no problem with video ads and the majority of them are silent but wow, there’s one for some sort of gardening thing where the video doesn’t load but the audio does and it blares out of my laptop, scaring the crap out of me.

      1. Reba*

        I haven’t seen that one, but you should report it using the link above the comment box, if you recall the brand.

    7. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Hey all! Yeah, so ad revenue has been way down, internet-wide, since the pandemic started. I’ve been experimenting with ad formats I wouldn’t have accepted in the past in an attempt to regain some of that lost revenue.

      The video ad isn’t supposed to play sound at all, but some keep getting through that do, and the tech to block them doesn’t seem to be catching them all. It’s really frustrating. Same thing with ads covering text — not supposed to be happening, but I’ve been getting reports of it anyway.

      The video ad was a month-long experiment for December (since it’s the month that produces the most ad revenue every year) and I’m probably going to kill it by the end of the month, now that holiday advertising is done. Apologies that it’s been such a pain! (That said, please keep reporting ads that play sound or otherwise misbehave via the link just above the comment box so that I know about them as long as the ad is still here.)

  47. Becky S*

    I get annoying ads if I access using Safari, very few if I used Chrome (on my Mac). I don’t use adblocker yet.

  48. Hi there*

    Running thread!! How is your running going? I’ve been slowly coming back from a broken toe and just finding my rhythm again. My long runs have peaked at 5 miles for the past couple months. Yesterday I really needed some alone time, and the trail along the canal was perfect. I ended up going for 8.5 miles, which I didn’t even know I could!

    1. LGC*

      Congrats!

      I’ve got to go running sometime today. I took off Christmas and yesterday, and I meant to run this morning but decided to wait until later in the day. (It’ll be a bit warmer anyway.) Unfortunately, it likely means I have to go to the local park – but since it’s going to top out at 30-something degrees, it might not be quite as crowded as normal.

    2. acmx*

      I didn’t get much running in the last 2 weeks. Part of it was giving myself a break from my usual route since I think it’s causing me pain. I ran 6 on Xmas and going to do a new year’s countdown run – for variety. Plus I am off work and can drive to flatter locations and run at anytime.

      It’s been a mild winter so far so I’ve gotten more running in than last year.

  49. Not So NewReader*

    Any one familiar with the Portal, a Facebook product?

    Am trying to help my older neighbor get hers running again. It fell off the network for whatever reason. I did a hard reboot of everything I could find. The problem is that when I go to log in, it does not show her network as an option, nor does it recognize it if I type it in manually.

    Just as a test, I tried to get on the wi-fi with another device and I could not get on with that device either.

    It’s reasonable to assume I missed something because I don’t know a lot about this stuff. I rebooted the portal and the wi-fi modem and the internet modem several times. I still could not get on with the portal or the other device.
    Does this look like a call to the cable company or did I miss a key part?

    1. fposte*

      Just so I’m clear—the network doesn’t even show up on any device, including yours? That definitely sounds like a modem/router issue, not a Portal issue. I think it’s time to call the cable company.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Both items are her devices. But yes, the network does not even appear on her Portal nor her other device.
        If I type in the name of the network, the message comes up that it can’t find the network.

        Okay, I think I will call the cable company on Monday and ask.

        1. fposte*

          If you have anything WiFi-enabled yourself, it wouldn’t hurt to do an external check for the network on your device, too, just to confirm the network isn’t visible.

          1. Not So NewReader*

            Good thought, thanks, I am going to remember that one.

            In an odd turn around, the Portal suddenly started working hours later, without any further human intervention.

            Someone suggested that maybe the airways were just so jammed that there was no bandwidth left.
            This is making sense, as in the past I have seen the internet slow waaaay down on school snow days. It also might explain why I would see various networks appear briefly then disappear never to return again.

            1. Colette*

              Hmm. That shouldn’t be it – even if the internet isn’t available, her wifi network should let you connect. You just won’t be able to go anywhere.

              If you think of the internet as a train network, the wifi network is the train station. Even if there’s an issue on the tracks, you can still go into the station – you just can’t go anywhere.

              I’m glad it’s working now, but it’s odd that it took that long. It can take a few minutes to reappear after you reboot everything, but hours is longer than it should be.

              1. Not So NewReader*

                Yeah, I thought it should reappear on reboot also. I was stunned when it reappeared hours later with no one’s additional help. It’s all so weird.

  50. Early vaccine*

    My employer (hospital in the US) got enough doses of the COVID vaccine to offer them to all employees and everyone who wanted was able to get it.
    I got mine on Dec 19th. Many of my coworkers have been reporting fatigue as the main side effect. I had hoped that it would have improved by now but I’m so tired! I’m not sure if holiday exhaustion is contributing. I made a big baking push right before the holiday to send to family (all baked goods arrived in good time, thank you Postal service!).
    I’m dreading the second dose if I’m this tired after the first.
    Has anyone else out there gotten the Pfizer vaccine and had problems with fatigue with the first dose? How long did it last? What helped you?

    1. Squidhead*

      I got mine on the 23rd after my night shift, slept my normal 5-ish hours, then got up. Stayed up at home overnight since I only had one night off, and by that morning (the 24th) I felt drained and stiff. Slept, still felt drained the evening of the 24th but went to work. By the morning of the 25th I felt better. Tired after my shift, but “normal tired.” My co-workers who have gotten it have mostly reported the same thing. So, 7 days of tiredness seems like a lot! Maybe something else is hitting you concurrently?

    2. MinotJ*

      Interesting! Almost everybody in my department got the Pfizer vaccine last week, and I haven’t heard of anybody being fatigued. We all had a sore arm for a few days, to the point where I had to hold my phone with my other arm. Sorry, not very helpful. I hope it gets better soon.

    3. Venis*

      Tiredness for any vaccine is a reaction by your immune system (it takes energy to fight off polio, measles, covid, etc), so in theory if you would have been hit hard by Covid then it seems reasonable that you would be more tired from the vaccine. A week seems like a lot, but hopefully you are feeling better each day. I would expect that the second dose would be easier on you, as your immune system knows what to expect. Good luck! It’s such good news that healthcare workers are starting to get the vaccine. I met someone a few days ago who had been vaccinated and we had a short “Isn’t this great?!” chat.

  51. nep*

    Saw an ad recently for VisionFocus glasses. You turn a dial to adjust them as needed. Has anyone here tried them? I’m interested to hear how these are.

    1. Dwight Schrute*

      I *think* Freaking Reviews on YouTube did a review on them. If not he did one on a very similar product! Worth checking out

  52. Post tendon foot injury return to walking*

    Hi all! Has anyone had experience with a tendon injury in the foot and returning to using it again? I’m on the verge of being able to use my foot again (hopefully within the next week and a half) and I wanted to know what the process would be like.

    How long did it take before you were able to use it normally? Or “feel normal?”

    What did it feel like when you started to use it again? I ask because mine does not feel ready, even if I remotely put pressure on my foot it feels like pins and needles. I’m sure a lot of it has to do with lack of use for nearly 3 months.

    Did you have to change the shoes you wear? I’m a woman and typically wear a lot of heels and I can’t imagine myself wearing them again (my injury is specifically in the ball of my foot).

    (I do understand that this isn’t a place to seek doctor opinions and that’s not what I’m doing, I have a doctor whom I see regularly. I just want to know what people’s experience has been.)

    1. fposte*

      No, but I’m not seeing a mention of physical therapy in there. If that’s not in the plan, I strongly encourage you to add it. PTs are also likely to be good with such questions, since they’ll have seen a lot of patients through rehab.

      1. AvonLady Barksdale*

        Agreed. I’ve had several stress fractures in each foot (I have weirdly shaped feet and I used to wear heels on the sidewalks of NYC), and only after I did PT did I develop enough strength to avoid further injury. PT is the best way to get back to “normal”, in my experience.

        For what it’s worth, I wear heels sometimes (well, I did in normal times) but I found the best styles and brands for my effed up feet and I wear flats way more than I did in my 20s.

    2. Jules the First*

      It sort of depends which tendon, but it won’t feel ready. I cried when my PT took away just one of my crutches because he decided it was time to start using it a bit. When he took the second it was even scarier…I think I walked at ancient grandmother speed with my arms out like a tightrope walker for a couple of weeks. I did physio 3x a week for the first month, then 2x a week for three months, and then every 2 weeks for a year. After that it was good as new and I’ve not had any issues with it, but being diligent about your physio is key.

      1. OP*

        Thank you so much! I knew it would be quite the adventure for me going forward and I’ve heard it can take up to a year.

        It’s the tendon that houses the sesamoid bones, just below the big toe.

        1. Jules the First*

          Hopefully that will be faster, then – mine was a peroneal tendon which is really, really hard not to use. In my experience, the more physio you can get your hands on, the faster recovery will be…I think my insurance offered me 12 sessions and I ended up doing more like 30, but the extra sessions were worth every penny – I’m back running, riding horses (even showjumping) and dancing with no pain and no instability. Hang in there!

  53. Loopy*

    I just got the idea of giving myself a little congrats on surviving 2020 gift. It’s also doubling as a kind of a surviving the first bit of 2021 kit. I love good smells in soaps and lotions but have a somewhat weak sense of smell. Does anyone have a recommendation for an oats milk and honey scented soap bar and /or lotions that are really good and have a pretty noticable scent?

    I’m also splurging on a book I’ve wanted to read forever, the Invisible Life of Addie LaRue. I don’t usually indulge in retail therapy of any sort but I think it’s warranted. Any other recs for modest/inexpensive treats welcome (already loaded up on excellent teas and warm drinks and soups!)

    1. Anono-me*

      I was gifted some really nice quilted ballet style slippers with a leather style sole. They are really nice.

      For lotions, I like just about anything with cocoa butter.

    2. Sled dog mama*

      Don’t know if it’s exactly what you are looking for but I’ve found that the Burt’s Bees baby shampoo/soap has a lovely and pretty strong honey scent.

    3. The Other Dawn*

      Beekman 1802 (they have a website) sells lots of goat’s milk soaps and most of the scents are pretty strong. They sell one called Honey & Oats and I like it. Their full-sized bars 15.00 USD, but they are BIG–9 ounces. The also have “travel sized,” which is a pack of three 3.5 ounce bars. My favorites right now are Snow Forest (smells like a pine forest), Honey & Orange Blossom, and Rose Apothecary. If you have an Ulta near you, you can try checking there. They’ve started carrying Beekman products, but I’m not sure which ones since I don’t shop there. Also, some of their scents are available across the full line such as the soaps, lotions, had creams, and shampoo and conditioner.

    5. Workerbee*

      Check out Seventh Sojourn Soap (soap magic dot com). They also sell at Renaissance Faires and have the kind of scents you sometimes wish you could eat. I keep a few bars in my dresser drawers as well. And they can scrub off stains, too.

      Look under “Bath” for their bar soaps, but they have a full range including lotions.

    6. Dwight Schrute*

      Look into Love Your Mama soaps! The honey almond one is pretty strong and I like the way it smells. Her soaps lather really well too which is nice

  54. Sleepy*

    Anyone navigating tricky family stuff during covid?

    My usually very independent parents have become much more emotionally dependent on me during covid because I’m the only one of their children who lives close enough to visit safely. I’m also the oldest so I’ve always felt more responsible for them (executor of their will and so on). It feels like my visits are a bit too long for me but never long enough for them. I honestly enjoy being around them but covid has made it harder somehow.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Not the same as parent/child but I visit an older friend daily. I tried stopping when Covid hit but that only made things FAR worse. So I resumed as the family asked me to do.

      We talk about our project of the day. I usually have something that I am running at full bore and then she finds a project OR visa versa, I go find a project because I see her tearing into something. It’s a good, solid redirection of energy in saying, “what are you going to work on today?”. And it gives a new topic of conversation other than the gloom of the news.

      You can encourage your folks to call/email other family or good friends. Or perhaps your folks can get interested in trying new recipes. My friend also has x hobby so I check out how the current project with that is coming along. I’d suggest aiming conversations towards things they CAN do today.

  55. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

    Low stakes and silly – I have a model skeleton named Sam on my desk. For Christmas, I got a set of various anatomy models, which includes a second skeleton of the same model as Sam. I like to name things in themes, so I need a good “Sam and _____” name for the second skeleton that preferably isn’t Dean (because I’m not a big Supernatural fan). Any suggestions? :)

    2. curly sue*

      Did you ever play the ‘Sam and Max’ series of video games? That’s what first came to mind for me – ‘Sam and Max Hit the Road’ is one of the classic point-and-click adventure games, similar to Maniac Mansion.

      1. Cruciatus*

        Crap, sorry, I just read the last part. I got excited at “Sam and _____” and my brain skipped all the rest.

        1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

          Haha, no worries, they were the first ones to my mind as well, and then I just couldn’t get past them to think of anything else which is why I posted :)

      2. PollyQ*

        Two different Sam & Diane possibilities: Cheers, and the news show 20/20, which for a while featured co-anchors Sam Donaldson & Dianne Sawyer.

    6. Theodoric of York*

      Sam and Janet. It’s a joke on the title of “Some Enchanted Evening” from the musical “South Pacific”.

  56. Victoria, Please*

    Following up on a question above: Bullet journalers, how are you setting up for 2021?

    I use a Rhodia Goalbook (pricey but so nice!), dot grid. This year’s color is sapphire.

    My first pages are “21 for 2021,” basically a more or less whimsical list of things I’d like to accomplish in 2021 (example – fertilize my fruit trees on a timely basis). Then a reading list. Then this year I am trying something new and putting my basic month setups all together for three months at a time: 3 pages per month for “one-sentence journals,” 1 page per month for goal monitoring, then 1 page per month for a project overview for that month. After that, I haven’t decided yet. Maybe I will just do simple daily lists, interspersed with whatever other lists I feel like I need, like the project plan for getting the house painted.

    If you’re new to bullet journaling, the short version is: A notebook full of lists, preceded by a table of contents. Read Ryder Carroll’s book if you like, or visit his website.

    But stay off of Pinterest. It’s delightful that so many women have found bullet journaling to be a creative, artistic outlet and make elaborately illuminated pages. They’re beautiful and fun to look at. But the notion that bujo’s have to be photo-worthy is in direct contradiction of the actual ethos of bullet journaling which was created to help a man manage his ADD.

    1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      I’m not sure about formatting yet, but I really like your 21 in 2021 idea, and I may noodle around with that some :)

    2. Gingerblue*

      I’m considering setting up all of my monthly spreads ahead of time, because sometimes when things are busy I get overwhelmed by this and stop bullet journaling for a week or two and then chaos ensues. I use a discbound book frankensteined together out of paper, dividers, rings, and so forth from various companies’ systems, with homemade covers made from laminated scrapbooking paper because I get bored easily and like to swap them out every month or two for something seasonally appropriate. I admire other people’s bound journals, but it makes me nervous if I can’t add and remove pages and shuffle things around.

      I do a monthly calendar on two pages, a two-page spread with the days of the month numbered and hard deadlines on the left page and self-imposed goal deadlines on the right, a list of monthly goals on the next page as a catchall for things that don’t make sense to put on the calendar, and a page for recording what I’ve read, watched, and played that month, which I mostly forget to fill in. I do something similar but shorter for each week: a basic weekly calendar layout to try to block out what I have to do and how much time I have, and a list of goals (mostly academic writing goals, or other things of substance where I need to progress) and tasks (everything else). Anything more than a month out goes into digital tools (Todoist is my catchall, and I use Trello for tracking writing projects.)

      I feel like I’m not really making the progress I should towards my larger goals, and I need a better way of getting large tasks on which I should be making incremental progress (like writing a book, or keeping up on reading in my field, or learning a language) into my system. So I’m thinking about ways I can do that.

      1. Victoria, Please*

        I started watching Ryder’s youtube videos just now (bc this thread reminded me!) and he has some good ideas for that kind of thing.

    3. Holly the spa pro*

      Ive been thinking of doing a bullet journal for 2021 because a lot of the sketching tutorials i have been watching are from bullet journalists and they look satisfying. I dont have anything meaningful to add to this, just taking this as a sign to start mapping it out this week. Thanks!

    4. No Name Yet*

      I’ve been toying with the idea of bullet journaling, it seems like it has the potential to be useful. I don’t have ADHD, but have similar organizational struggles, esp. during stressful times (hm?). I’ve been overwhelmed by where to start finding out more – looks like Carroll may be a place to start? Any other suggestions? (Sorry for hijack)

      1. Gingerblue*

        I recommend Carroll’s website, which has a great overview of his system, as the best starting point, but the book is good for a deeper dive. From there, take what you like and drop any elements which you don’t. I don’t bother indexing, for instance, because I use a journal where I can move pages into whatever section I want.

        There are several bullet journal reddit communities. r/bulletjournal and r/bujo tend to slant towards the artsy approach but can still give you useful looks at other people’s setups; it’s much smaller, but r/basicbulletjournals (“It’s a planner, not an art project”) is explicitly focused on functional bujo use.

        1. No Name Yet*

          That makes sense as book vs. website! I just love the ‘planner not an art project’, LOL. I was really interested in your description earlier in this thread about a journal with movable pages, because the idea of having to commit X pages per topic absolutely makes me kind of anxious, and I can see having the flexibility to move/add pages could make it easier to just start the darn thing. Thanks!

      2. Unicornucopia*

        Yeah, Carroll’s website helped me a lot, and I found someone on Instagram who had a setting up guide and I kinda combined the two to make them work for me. Tread lightly on Instagram and Pinterest though, there’s a lot of super artsy folks who are really fun to look at but it can feel overwhelming and like you have to match them so it’s better to start small and add in what you want month by month. I personally use it for school assignments mostly so I set it up for each semester at a time but I just use it as needed during breaks. I’m not super artsy with mine, but I like having a lot of different colored pens I can assign to each subject and keep track of each class with, plus it’s easier to read than all black ink on a page.

        1. No Name Yet*

          Ah, a setting-up guide sounds useful to look for. And I like the idea of starting small and then adding components in as they make sense to me. And that also makes sense about the different colored pens to keep track of different subjects. (I think Instagram and Pinterest should always come with warnings, LOL, good to be aware of for this.) Thank you!

  57. Mae Day*

    How can I [or should I even] talk to my parents about my concerns for their financial situation and my sister? I’m concerned because my sister refuses to grow up and it is straining my parents. She has a bachelor’s in communications and one in art history. Next spring she will have finished and graduate with her master’s in interdisciplinary studies. When I talked to my family at Christmas I found out she has applied to do another master’s starting in the fall, this one in philosophy. She’ll be 28 when she graduates and starts another master’s. My dad is 54 and my mom is 50. If they were not supporting my sister they could move into a retirement community [they want to but can’t afford it if they are supporting her and they can’t bring my sister with them either]. My dad is working overtime a lot at his job when at this point in his career he could afford to slow down a little. They have taken equity from their house before and haven’t paid off the mortgage yet even though they should have by this point. They have mentioned possibly getting a second mortgage before. My sister is less independent than 16 year old me. She has never had any kind of job. She doesn’t have a driver’s license even though she could easily get one, preferring to have my parents drive her everywhere. She has no bank account or credit card. She’s never gotten past a first date. I’m worried that my dad will never be able to retire and my parents will fall into a debt hole they can’t escape.

    1. Anima*

      Uuuh. Several Bachelor’s and Masters here, I’m also the older sister and kinda flailing around career-wise (currently doing a bachelor in CS).
      I hated depending on my parents. My feeling was that I could not spend the money I got from them freely, because it wasn’t “my” money. Is that an idea for your sister? That having her own money she can do whatever she wants with it? Having my own money led me to more independence. I suddenly had to have a bank account of my own. I also wanted to have my very own space as soon as I had money. Does this not sound good for your sister? I feel she absolutely needs to be more independent. It souds harsh but your parents will not be there forever…
      As for your parents: I guess they see no problem. I had several talks with my folks about stuff (esp. a new car) they could get when they won’t give me their money. That eventually helped, but it was *a discussion*. Maybe this point of view gets the conversation started.
      When the conversation is going, your parents can still help your sister out with paperwork and stuff, until she gets it and can do it herself. Mine sure did, and it helped me tremendously. I can do my taxes myself now, but boy did I need help from my dad at the beginning. That eases out with time, I think.
      I am absolutely independent from my parents now, but it took me some time and a looong transition out of their care. I wish you all the best!

        1. WellRed*

          Unfortunately, they probably won’t listen to you, though I also don’t think it would hurt to try. But accept it’s their life and money. Have you ever tried talking to your sister? Not about her refusal to grow up but framed as concerns for parents (dad works too much. They’d like to retire).

          1. Mae Day*

            My sister thinks I’m a “sucker” and brags about how much easier her life is than mine. I don’t really talk to her, I just hear about everything when I call or email my parents.

            1. Blackcat*

              You will likely need to reduce contact with your parents because of this.
              I have, and it helps a lot.
              Also, therapy. Therapy did wonders to help me disengage.

    3. violet04*

      Unfortunately I don’t know if there is much you can do. Your parents are adults and have made this decision to support your sister. Sadly I think they are doing her a disservice by supporting her like this. It’s one thing to not have a driver’s license, but not having a bank account or credit card will be a problem if she has any hope of being independent.

      You could certainly have a conversation with your parents about your concerns, but ultimately it’s their decision. At this stage in their lives, it’s important they have their estate planning in order. If they haven’t done that, you could send them some resources to help them get that process started.

      1. Blackcat*

        Yup, this.
        There is nothing I can do to encourage my parents to get my brother to stop depending on them.
        Nothing.
        Fortunately, they’re well off enough it’s not a huge strain financially. But my dad is nearing 70, and clearly wants to retire and feels like he can’t.
        It sucks, but there is absolutely nothing I can do about it. I have talked about estate planning with them, but only to ensure that their house goes to my brother. I do not want to co-own any property with my brother, and I sure as hell do not want to be legally on the hook for things like property taxes for a home I do not live in. Nor do I want to *evict my brother* and force a sale. No. Thank. You.

        I know this is hard and frustrating, and I imagine it’s moreso with a bigger age gap (I’m in my mid 30s, my brother is in his late 30s). Unfortunately, it also gets worse as the deadbeat sibling gets older…

        1. Blackcat*

          Ah, I now see your comments that you’ve actually got the same age gap as myself and my brother.

          The advice still stands. I *totally* get where you are coming from. Man, do. I. get. it.

          I would really like my dad to retire and do all the things he wants to do. But he is making an active choice to support my brother instead. My mom is team “woe is the son who doesn’t know how to hold down a job” and has thwarted efforts to make my brother more independent, but still, my dad could change things if he really wanted to.

          The most I can do is make sure I don’t rely on my parents. But I will say, as this has gone on longer and longer, it has really damaged my relationship with my parents. My brother resents me for being an adult, and throws a fit if I visit with my husband and child. My parents resent me for not visiting more often, yet have literally *asked me to leave to a hotel in the middle of the night* to cater to one of my brother’s tantrums (this was pre-kid. My brother has some mental health issues, but is relatively neurotypical. We’re talking man-child pouting and slamming things, not autism-like meltdowns.)

          Therapy has helped me a lot to accept this is something I can’t change. I need to maintain distance from the situation for my own mental health.

        2. Flower necklace*

          As someone in a similar situation, I can confirm that it only gets worse as they get older. I am 33, my older brother is 35. He lives at home and has never had a full-time job. I spent so many years fighting with my parents about him. It’s just my mom now, and she absolutely refuses to see the truth. The last time I confronted her about it, she said, “Do you really want him to get a job and bring home the coronavirus to me?”

          Again, he is 35 and has never held a full-time job. The most he has done is pet-sitting and babysitting for his friends, and he hasn’t lived on his own since college. But, to her, he’s apparently completely capable of just grabbing a job any time he wants, as if it’s just that easy, and I’m a heartless monster for suggesting he put himself at risk during a pandemic.

          I exhausted all the rational arguments a long, long time ago. If she doesn’t want to see it, she won’t see it.

      2. Mae Day*

        In terms of their estate, they said they plan to leave me and my sister each 50% of their house (which they are currently underwater on according to my dad). I have said if they do that I will disclaim because I will not be supporting my adult sister. As far as I know they still plan to do this but I want nothing to do with it.

        1. Blackcat*

          Talk to a lawyer, because these types of things (refusing inheritance) are state-dependent and can be complex.

          1. Mae Day*

            I have. All I have to do is file some paperwork. A lawyer can easily do it form. I’m fortunate it is simple here.

        2. WellRed*

          If they are underwater on their house they are already in a debt hole. Have you ever asked your parents how they plan to provide for your sister after they are gone? And made clear you can’t do it?

          1. Mae Day*

            I have. Their plan is to leave us each 50% of the house and the car [there is no money or anything else besides that] and I support her. I have told them it won’t happen but they believe I’ll change my mind.

            1. Blackcat*

              You definitely need your own lawyer to explain how to refuse inheritance and make sure you have no obligation on the debt on your parents’ home or for supporting your sister. Hopefully your parents live long lives and you don’t have to worry about it for a long time. But getting your ducks in a row to limit financial liability (including property tax) will help. There may be things to do now that help with that, and an estate lawyer can walk you through it.

            2. Not So NewReader*

              In a much tamer story my father was h3ll bent that I was going to inherit his property. It was 100 acres about an hour and a half from my home. He could not hear that I could not afford to maintain the property. He could not hear that I did not have the physical stamina to walk 4 plus miles of property line that is on very rugged terrain.

              What he did hear was when his brother and another friend said to him, “How is your daughter [me] going to take care of all this when you can barely take care of it yourself?” Both conversations were in private, they were separate conversations and I had no idea that these two people felt this way.

              My suggestion is to find someone they respect to talk to them about the situation privately. This can be a family member or a good friend.

              His change of mind was very quiet, I only saw subtle differences in him. He stopped talking about me inheriting the property. He stopped planning what I could do with it. So if these people are effective in persuading your parents, the next step is to not expect to see any big statements or pronouncements that they have changed their minds.

              Eons ago parents could dictate how we spent our lives. But that has changed as it’s recognized as wildly unfair to strip away a person’s power/autonomy just because “I am your parent”. Your sis will sink your finances just as she is now sinking your parents’ finances. That’s her plan and she’s been pretty clear about it.

              Continue to build a support group for yourself. A lawyer is an excellent start. Get a few people around you who are most willing to support you and remind you that you are absolutely correct here. You are wise and you have a clear perspective on this situation.

          2. Blackcat*

            If her parents are anything like mine, they’ll spend a decade + in denial that the sister will need supporting once they’re gone.
            My parents have finally realized it, and my brother has now basically cut me off since I told him I would not support him if our parents can’t/our parents die.
            Despite that, I highly recommend being loud and clear all around that you won’t ever support a sibling if you can’t/don’t want to. I don’t think it really sunk in for my parents until my kid was like 2 years old.

        3. Elspeth McGillicuddy*

          Are they…particularly frail or something? While it is always good to plan ahead, inheritance shouldn’t be an immediate issue for decades. You probably won’t have to deal with it until your forties or even fifties. Your own kids might have graduated college by then. Maybe your sister will grow up and be self sufficient, maybe she’ll marry a rich dude and move to Aruba, maybe she’ll still be living off your parents. You have no idea what issues will be in play by then, so don’t worry about fixing them.

    4. Not A Manager*

      I can’t tell if you’re actually 16 now, or if she’s less independent now than you were at that age, but I suppose my answer doesn’t really change either way. You need to put on your own oxygen mask first. Be sure that you are not a financial burden to your parents as an adult, and that you are making good, safe choices for yourself.

      If you are 16, then I think you need to let the adults handle their relationships. It’s not your job to keep your parents safe from their own financial decisions. If you’re an adult, then my advice is only slightly different. These are still their relationships and their decisions, but I think you can tell your parents ONCE that you are worried about them and their financial security (without getting into your feelings about your sister’s own choices).

      1. Mae Day*

        I’m only 4 years younger than her now. I’m 23. I just meant that when I was 16 I had a job, a car that I bought 100 percent on my own, a bank account and except for my parents giving me a room and feeding me dinner every night I paid my own way (my own clothes, my phone etc). I was more independent then, then my sister is now .

    5. D3*

      50 and 54 is NOT old enough for most retirement communities (Usually those are 65+) and frankly the idea that you think they should go off to a retirement community at that age is laughable.
      Your parents are adults and make their own decisions. You do not get to say that they “should have” paid off their mortgage by now. You do not get to say what your sister does and does not do with her life. Not her education. Not her dating. Not her driving. None of it.
      Your worries and anxieties about your parents are YOURS.
      Say nothing unless you’re asked. And even then, stick to what you’re asked and don’t go off ranting beyond that.

      1. Not A Manager*

        There are plenty of over-55 communities. I know a number of couples where one partner is over 55 and the other is younger, but they still qualify for the community and they love it. There are a lot of activities for robust middle-aged folks, but you can age in place.

        1. D3*

          Neither of them is over 55, though. And I have never seen that here, including when I was scouting a place for my parents a 2-3 years back. They were 63 and 61 at the time and didn’t qualify for any senior living places.

          1. Myrin*

            I mean, Mae Day’s dad will be 55 in less than a year, so I don’t think that is a hair that needs splitting. But also, she clearly says that her parents “want to [move into a retirement community] but can’t afford it if they are supporting [sister]” – apart from making it clear that this isn’t just something Mae has come up with for shits and giggles, that also sounds like it’s not just a vague idea the parents have but an actual goal, probably one where they already know the exact community they would like to move into.

            1. fhqwhgads*

              Plus even if they could afford it while supporting the sister, if they move into a 50+ or 55+ or whatever it is, the sister can’t live with them there.

      2. Mae Day*

        Actually they want to move into the 50+ retirement community that is just outside of our hometown. I have no opinion on where they live but almost every time I talk to them they bring up how they wish they could live there but cannot afford it. It’s not laughable for my parents [who are both over 50] to want to live in a 50+ community. I love my parents and I want them to be able to enjoy their lives. My dad told me that currently he can’t afford to retire until for another 15-20 years instead of less than 10 like he planned to [which means working until age 70-75] and that they are underwater on their house too. That’s why I am so worried about them.

        1. D3*

          Yours is a VERY different situation. Do not compare her young and fully capable parents with someone who has dementia. My answer would have been VERY different if her parents were having actual *problems* and not just making decisions she didn’t like.

          1. TechWorker*

            This is a very unfair reading and doesn’t seem remotely accurate to what’s actually going on…?

      4. ....*

        The poster said that her parents want to move into a retirement community. I thought it seemed odd too but her exact words were “they want to”

      5. Courageous cat*

        I feel like this is kinda harsh. She’s still family, it’s perfectly natural that she doesn’t want to see the rest of her family flounder. Who can you count on to push you to do things better if not for your own family?

        I feel like you’re saying “this is none of your business” but I somewhat disagree with that. OP cares about her family, or at least her parents, and it sucks to watch stuff like this happen.

      1. Blackcat*

        While I agree that OP shouldn’t “worry” too much about it…. this approach was my parents with my brother. “He’ll move out eventually!”

        He’ll be 39 next year. He’s never held a job–he’s done some art commissions, but that’s it and he’s never made more than a few thousand in a year. It would have been one thing to start at an entry level job at 30. But at 40, it’s MUCH harder.

        I did have some “If you are making this bed, I will not lie in it with you” conversations with my parents. For all of their enabling of my brother, they do not expect me to take over supporting him. But some of that now is that he HATES children, and I have one. I think the pressure might mount again once my kid is out of the house. I do think I have a while before it truly becomes an issue, though. Both of my father’s parent’s were quite healthy and fully able to manage their own affairs until they hit 90 (at which point they each needed care). So I do hope I have about another 20 years before there’s pressure on me to take in my brother. But by that time. he’ll be almost SIXTY.

    7. Mella*

      I have a sibling-in-law who pulled this same crap, and the result is hitting her like a bullet train. My in-laws did no estate planning and my MIL now has dementia, so there’s no proof that SIL is/was living at home with full permission (and was serving as a home nurse, basically, helping MIL toilet/bathe/eat and running the household).

      The county has seized control of my MIL’s estate and finances, and is charging SIL with multiple felonies for using the household account to pay utilities, property taxes, etc. If my ILs had been responsible and did their paperwork, SIL could have stayed in the house indefinitely. Instead there was no documentation, so the govt saw dollar signs and came in hard and fast to try to suck the estate dry.

      Getting your sister to stop being a perpetual student is the least of your worries. You need to force your parents to see an elder law expert and get their ducks in a row. They need wills, medical power of attorney, all of that. They need concrete documentation that they are allowing your sister to live off them despite her being a capable adult.

      If your parents’ health fails, the state will try to dictate how their care will go, unless they have a solid plan in place. If they need nursing care, the house might be taken away, and at best your sister is homeless.

      You cannot wash your hands of this like my husband did. Now he and I are fighting because he wants to cash out his retirement to pay for his sister’s lawyer. Learn from my mistakes and force your family to get their act together.

      1. Mella*

        Also, lookback periods are constantly increasing, since the govt realized that estates are a cash cow. It’s 5-10 years in some places, so “wait and see what happens when they get older” is a terrible plan. Handle this now.

      2. Mae Day*

        I’ve told my parents that if they leave me 50% of their house and expect me to support my sister it won’t happen. I’ll be doing a disclaimer on anything they leave me. I want to help them while they are healthy and alive. But if they don’t do something about this I’ve made it clear my sister and them are on their own and whatever happens won’t be my problem.

        1. Mella*

          If you’re in their will, you won’t be able to wash your hands of it. If you get half the house, your sister would have to buy you out to stay there. If you are willing to turn over your share of the estate to her, you would still have to do so formally/legally.

          Your best bet if you truly want to stay out of it is to ask that they leave you a token amount (like ten bucks in cash) and nothing else. But if they don’t adhere to your wishes, this will eventually be your problem.

          1. Mae Day*

            I’ve talked to a lawyer and I can give up anything they leave me in the will. It’s just a matter of filing some forms. So that’s what I’ll be doing if anything is left to me.

            1. Anono-me*

              It sounds like your parents are more optimistic than realistic about their estate and how things will work out. Can you ask them to talk to a financial and estate lawyer? (You may have to frame it as estate planning to benefit your sister.) Even if you are not part of the conversation, you can inform the lawyer of your intention to refuse any inheritance that would tie you monetarily to your financially dependent sister. (As I understand it, lawyers have restrictions on talking, not listening.) It may wake them up to their future. At least maybe the lawyer can convince them not to try to tether you financially to your sister. (I’m assuming that trying to leave you part of their estate and having you refuse it will reduce what ultimately goes to your sister vs leaving it all to your sister. )

              I’m sorry you are in this situation with your family.

    8. RagingADHD*

      From reading your replies, there is really nothing you can do except tell them the truth and reflect their own complaints back onto them.

      Example: if they repeatedly complain about not being able to move to their desired place, remind them that they could afford it if your sister supported herself.

      If they complain about not being able to retire at 65, tell them, “Well, what are you going to do about it? You could choose to make that happen if you wanted to.”

      They are grownups who get to make their own choices and live with the consequences. It sounds like they are burning off the energy of their dissatisfaction by complaining instead of changing.

      You don’t have to absorb the responsibility of worrying on their behalf. You can “return to sender”.

      If they find that you aren’t a sympathetic audience for their false sense of helplessness, they might use that pent-up energy to take action. By allowing them to vent you are just helping them feel comfortable in the status quo.

      1. RagingADHD*

        Note: they aren’t going to like this and might get mad or act hurt. You might feel like a bitch.

        That’s okay.

        Nothing changes without some discomfort.

    9. BRR*

      So after reading your replies, I don’t think anything is going to change. If you choose to talk to them, and I do think there’s room to try, I’d leave your sisters choices out of it as much as you can. Example, It’s not about her going for a degree but about them paying for it.

      I’d personally try it as a reply. “I want to move to a retirement community.” “Ok what are you going to do to get there?” “We have no money?”Do you want my help to figure this out?”

      Then if nothing changes I’d make the topic off limits. “We’ve already talked about this, anyways how was x?”

      I’d also make it crystal clear about what you will and won’t take care of when they’re older and about your sister. And if they say you’ll change your mind reply “I’m not going to change your mind so what is your plan/you’ll need another plan.”

    10. My Brain Is Exploding*

      You could try having other relatives they trust talk to them, or you could gift them a session with a financial planner or possibly even something like a Dave Ramsey Financial Peace class (selling point is they do a lot with the military, if your folks respect that) where they could learn about budgeting and how to pay off their debts (not even mentioning your sister’s role in this). Unfortunately parents have a difficult time taking advice from their offspring. This is hard; sorry you’re dealing with it.

    11. Aurora Leigh*

      I don’t really have any advice, but lots of sympathy! My sister is similar (without the degrees though, just not working or . . . anything).

      I’m 29, my sister is 26, and my brother is still in high school. Because he is so much younger, my sister living at home does impact my parents lifestyle as much . . . But I shudder to think what will happen when my parents pass. Financially they are doing okay (house is paid off) but I am married and expecting my own child — we cannot take care of an adult who should be able to support herself. If my brother were to still be in school, we would of course support him.

      But I haven’t talked to a lawyer yet about what our options are — so you’re ahead there and that’s good! I have reached the point where we just don’t discuss my sister. I tried very hard in my teens and early twenties to help my sister leave the nest and build confidence but it didn’t work. I think she probably has undiagnosed mental health issues in addition to being very codependent on my mother. But my parents don’t believe there is anything wrong so there’s nothing I can do at this point. The mental distance is healthiest for me at this time.

    12. selenejmr*

      She sounds similar to my ex-husband’s sister. She is 42 and gets degree after degree, because if you are still going to college you don’t have to pay back your loans. Sorry, no advice.

  58. Not A Manager*

    I need some advice and a reality check here. A friend of my husband’s was over for a socially-distanced lunch on Christmas Eve. I sent him home with a fresh from the oven, warm homemade baguette, as well as a gift basket of homemade treats. He just blew up my phone and my husband’s that he bit into the bread and broke his tooth – complete with a photo of his broken tooth and questions about whether there were rocks in the bread.

    There were not rocks in the bread. I gave warm loaves to my neighbors who loved them, and we tore through three loaves with five people in the yard yesterday. They are good, crusty French loaves. Sadly, as we age our teeth do too. It’s awful that his tooth broke, but I’m pretty sure that if the crust broke his tooth then it was at its breaking point.

    My problem is that I know he wants some kind of reaction from me other than “that’s terrible.” An apology, maybe an offer to pay for a dentist? And I WOULD have felt sorry and apologized if his text hadn’t been so hostile. Of course I’m sorry that he bit into my bread and broke a tooth! But I also don’t appreciate the implication that my horrible, defective bread assaulted him. And I feel that he’s pushing me for a particular response.

    I feel like I’m in a lose/lose situation, because there’s actually no apology that covers “I’m so sorry I put rocks in your bread,” and anything else sounds dismissive and argumentative. “I’m sorry you broke your tooth but no one else broke a tooth” probably isn’t really the reaction he wants.

    I know this sounds horrible and petty. The man broke a tooth! That sucks! And I did say “that’s horrible, I’m sorry that happened.” But he keeps texting and I know that he wants me to be more abject, and I just don’t feel like it. Also, when I say that he is my husband’s friend, I mean it. He’s a difficult guy at the best of times.

    What would you do? Would you apologize in a way that accepts responsibility for his tooth breaking? Would you just commiserate about his injury? Would you respond to the implication that you should cover his dental costs? Would you never bake bread again?

    1. D3*

      “I’m sorry your tooth broke. I promise to never feed you again.”
      Not really, but it would be tempting.
      Honestly at this point, block him on your phone and let your husband deal with his friend.

    2. WellRed*

      Presumably he didn’t find rocks. Don’t offer to pay for dental work. You’re not at fault and that could run into a few thousand $. Don’t apologize further. Block his calls.

    3. BRR*

      “I’m so sorry that happened to you.” I would not accept responsibility (and I say that as a huge bread baker). He sounds…pleasant. At this point I’d block his number.

    4. Blackcat*

      Honestly, “I’m sorry you broke your tooth but it was just a normal crusty baguette. It could be there was already something wrong with your tooth. Unfortunately, teeth break sometimes. I hope you can get into your dentist ASAP.” is the text I send. Then let your husband deal with him.
      I 100% would never host this person again.
      FWIW, I personally watched someone break a tooth on a soft cookie. Sometimes it just happens.

      1. Filosofickle*

        Over the holidays I had a crown break on pumpkin pie. Pumpkin pie! Sometimes it just happens indeed.

    5. RagingADHD*

      I would enthusiastically commiserate: “Oh my gosh! That looks so painful! What a terrible thing!”

      And completely ignore the ridiculousness about rocks. If there was a rock in there, he wouldn’t need to ask. He could see it for Pete’s sake.

      I suppose you could say, “Of course I didn’t put anything in the bread, why would I do that? But let me know if you see anything that should not be in there.”

      You don’t owe him anything for dental care unless there was some freak accident where a foreign object fell into the dough without you noticing. Which I highly doubt.

      My husband has bad teeth and once broke a tooth eating something completely soft, like a banana I think. If they’re going to go, it doesn’t take much.

      If he continues being a jerk about it, just block him. He’s irrational.

    6. PollyQ*

      Are you sure he wasn’t kidding about rocks? That’s the kind of joke that can easily fail over the internet.

    7. Myrin*

      I think your “that’s horrible, I’m sorry that happened.” was a perfectly fine text to send and nothing further needs to come from you. Especially regarding his later behaviour, I think you’re totally in the clear to either steadfastly ignore or block him completely and let your husband deal with him if he so pleases. This guy sounds like a jerk.

    8. Teeth just break sometimes*

      Oh my gosh, don’t offer to pay for the dental work unless you have a LOT of money. I have a broken tooth and it is going to have to be pulled out and I am going to need a dental implant because the teeth around it aren’t stable enough for a bridge or whatever the cheaper alternative is. I have dental insurance and it’s still going to cost me at least $6000. I kid you not (yes, I’ve had second opinions).

      1. Teeth just break sometimes*

        p.s. He may not need the whole extraction/implant I need. But a crown is still usually thousands of dollars, at least in my high priced city. And again, that’s after insurance.

      2. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

        Co-signed. I have a $18,000 mouth and dental insurance covered $600 of it. Yes, six hundred. Two zeros.

      3. Texan In Exile*

        If there is a dental school near you, go there! My mom drove from Colorado Springs to Denver for her implant – she had to make multiple trips – and it was still worth it.

        I had my implant at the U of TN dental college in Memphis – $600 there vs the $4,000 retail I was quoted. That was over 20 years ago, but I bet the dental school is still cheaper. (And the implant is still good.)

    9. Southern Metalsmith*

      I lost a crown eating bread not too long ago and the dentist told me that eating bread is one of the most common ways to lose a crown or filling, or break a tooth. If the tooth or crown is ready to go anyway, eating bread is often the catalyst to the final break. Maybe bread is just that little bit sticky?

      Also, I’ll bet when he bit down on the “rock”, it was actually the piece of broken tooth. Speaking from experience, here.

    10. Not A Manager*

      Thanks everyone, I appreciate the comments. He didn’t really find a rock, nor did he really think there were rocks in it. He was “joking” but not joking – he’s being sure to tell me that the bread broke his tooth. The reality is that his tooth broke while he was eating bread.

      Your responses are so helpful because I was feeling that I must be a very mean person to be put out when the dude literally broke a tooth. It’s nice to see that I’m not alone in finding his approach off-putting. And yes, he is like this in general.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        If he is like this in general, maybe the answer is, “Well, now I am hesitant to serve you anything, if you are going to blame my cooking. No one else has had a problem.”

        1. RagingADHD*

          I don’t even think it’s worth having that conversation. Just quietly take him off the homemade-treat list.

          Presenting it as an “if-then” situation is just setting up another episode over something different, or creating the opportunity for some ridiculous argument about fault or blame.

          Sometimes the kindest thing you can do for someone is removing their opportunity to be an ass.

      2. Bibliovore*

        I have broken a tooth on a piece of bread, on a soft taco, on a peppermint, and on an apple. Teeth break. This person is being a jerk. (and now is when I say, and there is a pandemic that makes people over react) When they contact you again, if, shrug your shoulders and say well I guess you will have to stop eating bread.

      3. CatPerson*

        Yeah, I broke one when I ate a French Fry, and it wasn’t even particularly crispy. I didn’t contemplate suing McDonald’s.

  59. StudentA*

    Do any of you regret being taken to therapy as children? Can child therapy backfire? I think many times it can set up a kid for being “marked,” like something is wrong with them, which can stay with them for a long time. In that regard, I feel it can be so vulnerable to the child. But then, a parent would want to get professional help when there are stressors in the home.

    1. D3*

      “Marked?” By who? You gonna stamp “needs therapy” on the kid’s forehead or something?
      I wasn’t in therapy as a kid, but I wish I had been able to learn healthier coping skills. I wish I had been able to have a better sense of what was – and wasn’t – normal. I’ve done it as an adult and it was really helpful.
      I took my kid to therapy when her anxiety was an obstacle to her. She learned skills there that I could not help her with. She had a great therapist she trusted. Her therapist helped ME parent her better. She is a better functioning adult because I took her to therapy. We have a better relationship because the conversations that started there have helped us better understand each other.
      And only one of her friends ever knew. It was totally up to her how much to talk about it. And that friend only knew because they saw the same therapist. It connected them better, not worse.
      To be utterly frank, it sounds like you have a pretty big and unfair stigma about therapy yourself. Don’t project that onto your kid. If your kid had cancer or diabetes or some other need for professional help, would you not seek treatment because it “marked” them as having something wrong with them? Sorry you have cancer, kid, but if we got treatment you might think there’s something wrong with you.
      It’s okay to admit that something is wrong and you need treatment/help. I’d say it’s GOOD to do that. If anything it marks them as someone willing to improve. Something might be wrong with them, but it doesn’t have to STAY wrong if you get over the stigma and get him help.

      1. OyHiOh*

        This is why my kids have gone to therapy and continue to. I have gotten enough therapy for myself to know where and how my family is “broken” (bad boundaries, emotional detachement, and similar) but not necessarily enough to completely change my behavior while my kids are still young enough to change the generational cycles. So I go to therapy. They go to therapy. I’ve learned from their therapists where appropriate (we’re rapidly approaching ages where a child’s therapeutic relationship becomes much more confidential) and when I’ve learned something particularly relevant through my sessions, I share that with my kids. We’re all learning and growing and when they’re all grown up, they’ll have more tools than I had and that’ll be better for all of us.

      2. Observer*

        If your kid had cancer or diabetes or some other need for professional help, would you not seek treatment because it “marked” them as having something wrong with them? Sorry you have cancer, kid, but if we got treatment you might think there’s something wrong with you.

        This is pretty much what I was thinking.

    2. RagingADHD*

      I think if it truly backfires, the therapist didn’t do a good job.

      OTOH, if a child is in a situation where they need therapy, they are bound to carry the effects of the situation into adulthood. Therapy doesn’t erase trauma or problems, it just helps you cope or overcome them.

      Children often get their feelings mixed up – they might believe that their feeling of “wrongness” is because of the therapist, instead of the reality that it’s because of the trauma/stress. And those childish perceptions can hold over to adulthood.

    3. ten-four*

      It’s so late that I don’t know if you’ll even see this, but this is really important: therapy is a way to KEEP kids from being “marked.” Therapy is covered by HIPPA, and a kid who gets help through therapeutic means – up to and including in-patient treatment – is able to move on without having any of that intervention on their record. In contrast, a kid who goes through a punitive system – police, juvie, etc – has a much harder time shaking that history. AND it’s a lot less likely to actually HELP the kid in the first place.

      The key is how you frame therapy up for the kid. If you tell a kid they are going to therapy to “fix” them and get mad when they don’t shape up immediately, then yeah – they’re more likely to feel vulnerable. Present it as a regular, everyday thing: a doctor for your feelings, a person to help you think things through and make plans, someone in your corner. And the thing is – it IS nice to have a tune-up. It’s a good lesson to teach kids.

      Also real talk: in my lifetime therapy has lost a LOT of stigma. Kids learning how to process their emotions and figure out how they want to handle stressors is a good thing.

      1. StudentA*

        I’m still around. Thanks responding. I always check people’s responses and appreciate the time they take to answer me.

    4. Anonforthis*

      I could write a book about my experiences with therapy as a child, but TL;DR, I wouldn’t say I regret it, but I do kind of resent it. And I do think it led to a feeling that there was something wrong with me. Really, it was my parents who needed therapy, but unfortunately, the one time we tried family therapy, it was a complete disaster.

      This is not to say that it’s always a bad choice, or that it would be a bad choice for your child. (which I assume is why you’re asking.) But if there are stressors in the home, I hope the first and most important step of trying to reduce those stressors as much as possible is being undertaken.

      1. Anonforthis*

        I should probably note that my experiences were 35+ years ago, so there may be better, more useful options now.

        1. Zona the Great*

          Yes this was my experience. My parents were nightmares to grow up with. Constantly telling me I needed “help” when I was simply a victim of their choices and behaviors. I, too, resented the few times they put me in therapy (with my mom’s therapist who kept pointing out how we act the same).

      2. Observer*

        It sounds like the problem was not therapy per se, but that therapy was the wrong solution pointed at the wrong problem.

        It sounds like you might have benefited from some help with dealing with a dysfunctional home situation, but instead you were subjected to an attempt to fix the dysfunction through you, even though you were not where the real dysfunction was.

    5. nep*

      I don’t know about it backfiring or stigmatising someone, but I was in therapy in my teens for an eating disorder. Some sessions just me, some the whole family. I have mixed feelings–mostly negative–about the entire process and all the interactions I can recall. (One of the times the therapist and my parents rejoiced that I had made a significant breakthrough based on a white lie I told in a session.) Anyway, overall there’s this sense that it was rubbish, and basically everything was just shoved down our throats as far as approach, etc. We didn’t know what we were doing; my parents were just scared and reached out to a university hospital, and I can’t blame them.
      Now, I didn’t die from my anorexia and I got through a period when I was at a dangerously low weight, so…

    6. Traffic_Spiral*

      The problem with kids’ therapy is that the kids don’t pay for it. Now, I’m a lawyer, and as a lawyer we have a whooooole list of regulations for what we do when Bob is paying us to defend Bill. We are suspicious bastards who fully believe that if person A foots the bill for person B, someone is getting screwed. As such, we have safeguards.

      Problem with child shrinks is, IMO, there’s not the same set of safeguards. As such, there’s not a clear definition between “fix my child” and “make my child less inconvenient.” As such, your therapy is only as good as your parents.

      Also, not to be a professional snob, but shrinks are gullible AF. They just never suffer any real-world consequences for failing to tell when they’ve been conned, and so they never learn to tell when someone’s blowing smoke up their butt. Combine this with adults paying the bill for children patients and really, child therapy is only as good as your parents.

      1. KoiFeeder*

        Yeah, I went through pediatric therapy in the last decade and this is pretty much the vibe I got. There were some pretty scary incidences because my therapist really did try to make sure the therapy was useful and centered on the kid and some parents just Did Not Like That At All, but usually it was simply painfully obvious after a few months which parents were the reason the kid needed therapy in the first place.

      2. D3*

        Oh boy, you are so, so wrong and biased.
        As a parent who has had my kids in therapy, there are a whole bunch of safeguards. What happened in the therapy session was NOT open to me, even though I was footing the bill and I have parental rights. Every therapist I’ve ever hired for my kids was very careful and clear in that.
        Suffice it to say you have NO IDEA what safeguards are in place.
        “Suspicious bastard”, as you put it, seems to fit you quite well. I’d add “ignorant of how therapy works” to that list.

      4. Eagles Nest*

        Wow. This is HORRIFICALLY inaccurate, biased and frankly dangerous commentary. I’m appalled, shocked and disgusted to see such blatant lies and…

        Oh, wait. You’re a lawyer! I take it back. I’m not surprised at all!

    7. Dwight Schrute*

      No, I had a bit of therapy as a child and holy cow I wish I had done it consistently my entire life. I think therapy can be helpful for most people and I wish I had learned more coping skills as a kid rather than as an adult

    8. Alex*

      I don’t think there is a blanket answer to this. I was taken to therapy as a child and it was a horrible experience. BUT that doesn’t mean all therapy experiences for children are bad. I’m sure that good matches between kids and therapists are needed, same as adult therapy, as well as proper support from the parents or caregivers.

    9. OyHiOh*

      How you frame therapy to your child makes a big difference.

      The kind of old school way of thinking about therapy is that it’s for people who are damaged in some way and need to be fixed.

      The more nuanced, modern way of thinking about therapy is that therapy is for gaining skills and tools with which to cope more effectively with life.

      Two of my children have had behavioral therapy for ADHD (coping/life management for both, additional emotional regulation for one). One of the behavioral therapy kids has also had play/behavioral therapy for childhood PTSD (not being able to talk when you’re 4 and your brain and intellect are otherwise developing completely normally does a mental health number on a child, let me tell you). And all three have had talk/play grief counseling after loosing their father.

      At no time have peers or classmates behaved as if any of this treatment has “marked” one of the kids, nor have any of my three felt that therapy meant they were damaged. We’ve often talked about therapy as a place to learn skills and coping tools; a positive force in their lives.

    10. Not So NewReader*

      Maybe not so much now, but I think when I was growing up a kid did get “marked” to some degree. It was in little whispers between teachers and neighbors. I remember a relative who was diagnosed hyperactive and by the time the family got done passing the gossip around the relative had seizures and developmental delays. The latter two may or may not have been true. But the tags stayed with the relative on into adulthood.

      As far as things carrying into adulthood, I tend to believe we, ourselves, carry childhood stuff with us for much of our lives. So there is that, too.

      Personally, I have often wondered about things like the Medical Information Bureau. I have never had much time to look at that, but I did wonder how that was used, by whom and why we have it.

    11. Jules the First*

      I had weekly therapy as a kid for two years when I was six or so. He was amazing and there is no way I would be where I am today 30-odd years later if I hadn’t had it. He helped me understand my emotions and my peers, unpack the consequences of my behaviour and how my peers responded to that, and gave me space every week to be the little weirdo that I was. Every kid in my class knew I went, but honestly it helped so much more than it hurt.

      Like all therapy, the key to doing it successfully is that you need the right therapist for the right kid at the right time.

    12. AGD*

      It depends, I’d say. Some forms of therapy are so bad that they’re inherently misguided (trying to talk kids out of being non-straight and/or non-cisgender, for instance, is destructive; same for ABA therapy for autistic kids, which is abusive according to…every autistic person I know). But a widespread assumption that kids don’t need therapy is also potentially harmful.

      I saw two therapists as a child. The first was okay but a one-off, and the other was awful (full of bad advice). Plus my parents really didn’t explain it to me well. I thought they thought there was something wrong and wanted me evaluated for unwellness that they couldn’t deal with it, so I hid my symptoms and felt proud when my parents told me that one of the therapists had said, “Oh, no, [AGD] isn’t sick!” Victory! Except…that was not the idea. Therapy should be a normal thing, but we should also demand that practitioners be well-educated and thoughtful and careful.

      Raina Telgemeier’s most recent graphic-novel memoir (Guts) has a really good overview of her going to therapy for various things in her late childhood, and it also gets into a bit about how her friends reacted (several of them went, “Oh, yeah, I have a therapist as well”).

    13. Boof*

      I think it depends a LOT on the therapy; it’s a little like saying “does my kid need medicine” or perhaps “does my kid need exercise” — ? maybe? Depends on the situation, and there are a lot of ways to get it horribly wrong, but sometimes it can make a huge positive difference, or even be a lifesaver?

    14. CPS Alumna*

      I was in court-mandated therapy from age 5 to 9, and it was worse than what had gotten me there in the first place. (Short version: I was in the system, relatives wanted to adopt me, but I was a trauma placement so there were extra rules. Birth mother was schizophrenic and off meds; I was a bit feral.)

      I was just a kid, so at first, I told the truth. But my truth was a lot scarier than I knew. I realized right away that anything I said to a therapist would be repeated to my new parents. Then I learned something worse, because little pitchers have big ears. The therapists were also reporting on me to the courts, because they weren’t sure if I should be allowed to have a family. First therapist said I should be put into an institution, but my new parents went to court and got me a second opinion. I was on my last chance.

      So I went to therapy. Every week. I was polite, and I smiled, and I told happy little stories about their happy little toys, because that’s what you do when you’re a good girl who deserves a family. That was an hour a week, alone in a room with a trained adult, and if they tricked me into saying the wrong thing I would lose my family and be sent away forever. I was a brave little kid and I did it, but seriously, that’s not OK.

      I was also reading all the books on therapy and child development that I could find. The stuff I learned saved my life. I was busy raising myself during early childhood, and so missed a lot of fundamentals that most would pick up by example, but I was able to understand and apply the skills when they were explained. I started primary school as a hopeless case, and left as a basically normal pre-teen. I’d learned how to human.

      Would have been easier if I’d actually been in therapy, rather than…whatever Kafkaesque nonsense that was. All complex skills are easier to learn with a coach, there’s no shame in having one. But in order to be coached, you need the space to expose your weaknesses, so that someone else can watch you and figure out what’s holding you back. I didn’t have that, so therapy was worse than useless.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Wow. If you ever decide to write a book, I’d buy it in a heartbeat. You are very good at explaining things. And I think you have a story that our “systems” could learn from.

        I am so sorry all these terrible things happened to you. But I totally admire your courage and your strength in pulling yourself through.

    15. Cedrus Libani*

      I have OCD, and I took an active interest in learning to manage it. By the time I was seven, I’d stolen my parents’ books on the subject and was self-administering exposure therapy. But I still managed to have a really bad time with in-person therapy, because my parents…they loved me, but they thought they could badger me into getting better. So they dragged me in front of a therapist, who would try to make me talk about my symptoms, but if I did they’d freak out at me because I was supposed to be getting better.

      Don’t do that. Psychological skills can absolutely be taught, it’s great to normalize thinking about how you think and learning to do it better, but there has to be a safe space for the learning to happen. Books are safe; when I struggled or made mistakes, the books never got upset, and they never told on me either. They just…sat there. Whispering “you know how to do this, try again”. That’s why book therapy worked for me.

  60. Gatomon*

    Do LED lights just not work in enclosed fixtures? Or are there specific ones you have to buy?

    My whole house is filled with flush mount ceiling lights, the cheap kind that look like a certain bit of anatomy. Recently the remaining bulb inside my kitchen light burned out, so I stuck two new LED bulbs in. Well fast forward a few weeks and one has already died. These are a solid name-brand bulb that I haven’t had any issues with before in table or floor lamps, and now I see on the box that they aren’t meant for enclosed fixtures. I remember that being a thing for CFL’s, but I got a solid 5 years out of the ones I stuck in similar fixtures while renting.

    1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      Are you talking about the boob lights that take two bulbs? I have plenty of those in my house, some with standard LED bulbs and some with Kasa brand smart LED bulbs, and I don’t think I’ve had to change any bulbs in at least two years. Mine aren’t any particular brand, I don’t think – I got them free from the local power company in exchange for a power usage evaluation, so they’re definitely not super fancy.

    2. MMB*

      LED’s can be affected by heat and they will say on the box if they’re “suitable for enclosed fixtures”. They also have different bulbs for damp locations.

    3. ShinyPenny*

      I am in the same boat. Super annoying!
      According to the person I talked to at my power company, LED bulbs are not compatible with flush-mount fixtures, because of the heat build-up. Even though the bulb packaging includes images of flush-mount fixtures, and none of the ads mention this limitation. Their lifespan won’t be even a fraction of what they promise. It has been a frustrating and expensive issue.

      Long-life halogens seeem to work the best, but have no-where near the lifespan I’d prefer. I am just happy they have never scorched like the florescent ones did, and don’t burn out immeadiately like the LED’s. I can’t change the bulbs myself, and had counted on each bulb lasting several years. Nope!

      My attic has a lot of insulation, which is great overall but I think not great for heat retention in these fixtures. I think this might explain the different results people get (if there was thin or no insulation above them, heat could bleed off upward). Summer heat waves seem to be the last straw, so then I just don’t use these fixtures at all any more no matter what bulb is in them.

      I am successfully using LED’s in my “enclosed” outdoor sconce fixtures– once I swapped out the glass globes for plastic ones, and drilled several holes in the plastic. I can’t realistically do that to the unfortunate number of flush-mounts I have scattered around in multiple rooms indoors, though. But it did make a huge lifespan difference.

  61. Puppy!*

    Super late to the party but-
    Still shopping for booties- she doesn’t seem to mind the cold at all AND I can’t seem to get a decent tracing for size.
    Shopping for a dog bed.
    A friend has an old beanbag type dog bed from Orvis- they don’t seem to make it anymore and my google-fu seems to be broken.
    I have an old one from Martha Stewart/COSTCO but I am afraid it will break my washer if I try to wash it. The cover doesn’t come off.
    Looking for something with a washable cover.
    Looking for something that is around $50- Is that too cheap?
    Suggestions?

    Got the Crate Training games video- something weird with it. can’t pause. Feeling pretty stupid and then just gave up. the DVR is an external drive hooked up to my mac air.

    1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      I have several, and the ones that are favorite in my house are round Kirkland brand ones from Costco. The covers are removable and machine washable, and the insides hold up to a 70 pound lab/hound mix who likes to sprawl and a 50 pound sight hound mix with pointy paws who likes to AGGRESSIVELY FLUFF (she likes to basically try to scoop out a hole in the stuffing so she can curl up and nest, so she’s digging at them pretty regularly). They’re around $28 I think – I have probably four or five of them scattered around my house, and they hold up a while. The only reason we’ve actually had to dispose of any of them, rather than washing them and rearranging the stuffing, is when my husband’s cat peed on a couple of them. (The inner pillow can be washed to a degree, but not the “cleaning up from cat pee” level.)

      Search for “Kirkland Round Signature Dog Bed” :) (at 42” across, they might be a little bigger than you need for your pup, but as long as you have room for it, that’s hardly a problem :) )

      1. Millicent*

        Yes, this. Sturdy and easy to remove the cover for washing. It isn’t my dog’s favorite bed but he seems to like it fine and it supports his weight (60lbs). (His favorite is an old bean bag from Walmart, but the cover’s already torn and can’t be removed for washing.)

      3. Dog and cat fosterer*

        Another vote for Costco. I have several, including some old ones that were donated and they look as good as new. I haven’t found anything else remotely close for the quality : cost benefit.

    2. Seeking Second Childhood*

      How big is she going to get? A friend with a Great Dane got a secondhand crib mattress and sewed a canvas cover for it. You can sew a cover for anything, uncluding a set of old pillows you’re replacing from your bed.

    3. Haha Lala*

      For the booties, try to get you pup to walk on paper (like a paper bag) with wet or muddy paws. You can outline the paw prints before they dry if you need to, but that’s much easier than tracing.

      My little doxie mix hates walking in snow, and she does really well with the rubber “socks” that kind of look like balloons. They’re not insulated, but they are just enough of a barrier to protect her paws from ice and to prevent snow from getting wedged between her pads. I highly recommend them!

  62. ValaMalDoran*

    I’m hoping someone has advice for how to deal with an apartment/building neighbor who smokes. Specifically, keeping the smell out of my apartment.

    The air coming out of my heating vents has been smelling strongly of cigarette smoke. I’m picking up a new furnace filter (allergen reduction and odor reduction/activated charcoal) tomorrow.

    The air ducts in the basement are not well sealed, and their furnace is right by ours. It got better briefly better yesterday when I sprayed a crapton of febreeze in the entire common basement.

    Any advice or ideas are welcome!

    2. A313*

      Can you put some kind of carbon/charcoal filters in your vents, just behind the vent cover? Although I don’t know if that would have the effect of partially blocking heat into your apartment or if it could negatively affect your furnace. Maybe also replace your neighbor’s furnace filter, but unsure if that only improves the air in their apartment. Hmmm. I clearly don’t understand enough about the airflow mixing and going from their unit into yours. Can the landlord help?

      1. ValaMalDoran*

        I’ll check into the vent filters. Thanks!

        The landlord is not always helpful, so I’m…not filled with confidence about bringing it up.

    3. ....*

      Is smoking allowed in your lease? I would contact the landlord. Smoking is not allowed indoors in very many apartment buildings.

    4. LDF*

      Depending on how reasonable your landlord is, consider telling them about it. Not in a this-is-your-horrible-fault-way, but if you’re a good tenant there may be changes they can make that you can’t. I don’t know enough about ductwork to know what they might be but I imagine there are options.

        1. LDF*

          Good luck! I lived somewhere for a whole year where cig smoke would find its way into my bathroom and it was not fun.

  63. Becca*

    History books about women that I recommend:
    – Njinga of Angola by Linda M Heywood. No audiobook, 600+ pages and dense, but very interesting.
    – A Midwife’s Tale: The Life of Martha Ballard by Laurel Thatcher Ulrich. Fascinating deep dive into 1790s-1810s life in small-town Maine via the daybook of a midwife. Not necessarily historically important per usual standards, but I highly recommend it anyway. PBS did a documentary/etc about the daybook and Ulrich’s research in 1998, which makes for an interesting watch.

    I just read The Invisible Life of Addie Larue; it’s fantasy realism that made me cry in a good way. :)

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