update: my office argued for 5 months about whether I could have an ergonomic chair

by Alison Green on August 15, 2024

Remember the letter-writer whose office argued for five months about whether they could have an ergonomic chair? They finally received their chair after a five-month ordeal (over a chair) (first update here) but … well, here’s the latest.

To recap, part of the arrangement I worked out with HR was that for this accommodation to work, I was also given a permanent desk (my employer otherwise hot desks). This was to ensure the chair wouldn’t get lost, stolen, etc. which honestly I appreciated, and has helped me feel secure about having my accomodation when I’m in the office. Everything was going fine until the last couple of weeks, when:

I was informed by HR that permanent desks will be eliminated and everyone will have to hot desk. I emailed HR asking what this means for my documented, medical accommodation.

HR seemed to have completely forgotten about me. The person who arranged all of this is no longer with company. HR says they will get back to me.

A week goes by. I follow up with HR. HR says I will need to go back to Benefits and reconnect with a contracted third party who processes accommodations (who frankly was awful the first time I engaged with them). HR is “pretty sure” everything will go through, but can’t guarantee.

I submitted all of this documentation over a year ago. I had everything formally approved by HR and the third party who processes these items. I have emails from HR confirming everything was formally approved. Everything is supposed to be on the books. Why am I essentially back at square one?

I shared all of this with the HR team, explained the lengthy process I went through to get this chair, forwarded emails from HR confirming everything, but they are making it sound like I will need to go back through all of this all over again.

Shouldn’t records like this be kept in some sort of software/official record-keeping process so that even if an HR staff member leaves or is terminated, there is historical documentation for all of this? Shouldn’t this be HR’s responsibility to iron out, not mine? Also, what would happen if for some reason they don’t approve the accommodation the second time around? Would they take the chair back?

Admittedly, I am still waiting to hear back from HR. Perhaps I am making a mountain out of a molehill. But just thought to share, because I literally cannot make this up.

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          1. WellRed*

            OP to be clear, a lawyer doesn’t mean you have to sue. It may be as simple as a strongly worded letter (probably not with your incompetent company) or as much as negotiating an ironclad accommodation or fat severance and reference.

      2. Florp*

        Right? One sharply worded letter from a lawyer to anyone high up in the management chain.

        Holy crap. If HR at my company was wasting time and resources like this while accomplishing nothing (and paying a contractor with the same results!) I would be throwing seven kinds of fits.

        1. Sam I Am*

          This. Hire a lawyer to write one letter. It won’t cost very much and it should be the kick in the pants HR needs to make sure the policy change re: hotdesking doesn’t impact you. Don’t wait, do it now before they can run around in circles and cause you more stress!

        2. Chauncy Gardener*

          Came here to say this.
          This is one of the worst examples of HR being a detrimental department I’ve ever seen. Usually they’re just a worthless, no value added waste of overhead dollars, but this is actively negative.
          Get a strongly worded letter from a lawyer to your CEO. The CEO needs to know how awful their HR department is. And if they don’t care, well then, scorched earth it is, my dude.

          1. Stephanie the HR Warrior*

            Hey, hey, hey…easy, tiger!

            HR Director here. I am not a worthless, no value added waste of overhead dollars. I am very busy supporting my staff and leadership on a daily basis, and thank goodness I am a valued and appreciated member of my company!

            1. Kyrielle*

              I don’t think I’ve ever worked with you, but I have definitely worked with HR professionals (the last word being one that I’m not at all sure I’d apply to the LW’s HR!) who were helpful and capable. As a non-HR person, I swear there actually _are_ HR personnel who are useful, valued, and appreciated…even by the people relying on them, at times. (In two separate cases, involving entirely different companies and HR departments, I have had HR go to bat for me with outside companies – once insurance, once short term disability – for ridiculous things – although not as ridiculous as this letter, in either case.)

              1. Kyrielle*

                This sort of story is definitely why some people view all HR departments through a cynical lens, though. If your only interaction is this sort of thing, or standard paperwork plus hearing about things like this, it starts to color your perceptions.

                And lest everyone think I have dealt with *universally* good HR, I did once have to carefully explain my state law to HR (we were headquartered in another state, and the only person then working as HR for the company had not bothered to check if my state law had any bearing – which it did, rather a lot, actually) regarding maternity leave/FMLA-equivalent/etc. On the other hand, once I explained it and included the links, she thanked me and processed it accordingly, so….

            2. Thegs*

              Yeah, I generally don’t like the idea of HR being worthless, as a clade. HR and IT catch a lot of flak because they’re the departments that everyone has exposure to and tend to operate as black boxes (for privacy or security reasons) so it’s hard to judge what exactly is going on from the outside. You don’t notice the 99% of the time they do their job without issue, only the 1% of the time when something goes wrong.

              When I burned out of my old position it was HR that helped me find a new, less stressful position in the company, on a different contract. Without HR I would have been job searching, and I really appreciate their efforts to keep my happy in the company.

              1. Anax*

                I agree with you – though I also think that because IT and HR are often black boxes, that can lead to a vicious, toxic cycle.

                It’s hard for executives to budget for these departments, because they don’t fully understand them. They aren’t revenue drivers, so it’s hard to see a direct cost/benefit ratio – like, “if we add X in budget, you’ll have Y more capacity”, or something. And IT and HR can be *pricy*.

                What that means is that when times are tight, a *lot* of organizations tighten the belt on IT and HR. And when times are better, if no major catastrophe has occurred, it’s really hard to negotiate for a higher budget – things are going fine so far!

                This works fine for a while, but it means your IT/HR employees are overworked, likely underpaid, and really dependent on institutional knowledge because without *good* tools, they find a way to use bad tools creatively to get the job done.

                When those employees get fed up and start leaving, it’s too late for a soft landing.

                Any new employee is coming into a stressed-out, overworked team, without the knowledge that makes all those workarounds possible. A lot will last a few months before saying “jeez, this is toxic, I’m out.”

                No one wants to discontinue a product line or replace the board of directors – but it CAN be done, if needed. Unfortunately, you can’t normally do that with IT and HR, no matter how deep a hole they’re in. You probably have a legal requirement to keep records for a set period of time. You definitely need to retain employee files somehow. You probably don’t have the budget to replace all the computers and servers in your company at once – and if you do, you probably have programs which can’t RUN on a new computer, which will have to be recreated from the ground up.

                That means that any change is going to be incremental, awkward, and very expensive. And it just gets worse over time.

                Once IT or HR have become toxic, it’s really hard to get out of that downward spiral.

                Speaking from experience, here – my background is in IT, and I worked in IT which was embedded inside HR for years. (Payroll stuff, basically.)

                I’ve had two workplaces with excellent IT and HR – and three which were toxic nightmares in totally different ways, but which all basically came down to “long-term lack of budget”.

                It’s a tough job; I’m grateful to be out, at least for the time being.

          2. Steve Jobs' ghost*

            As Steve Jobs said of HR types, “I’ve never met one of you that doesn’t svck.”

            2. Seeking Second Childhood*

              Shame he wasn’t in a position of power to hire the kind of person he wanted. /s

              Except he was – so it’s an inherently indecipherable quote.

              Was he looking for someone who would support the company’s interests at all costs and finding pros who pointed out laws?

              1. Anononomanon*

                I think you have a point — based on what I know about Steve Jobs I wouldn’t be surprised if he was looking for someone to help him circumvent laws.

          3. Chauncy Gardener*

            I can only go on my own experience. I have been the senior finance person at multiple start ups and other small to mid to large companies and I have worked with ONE super amazing awesome HR person. Out of, hmm, 14 companies plus 4-5 where I consulted.
            As I said, they are “usually” worthless etc. I really REALLY wish they weren’t. They could be the cornerstone of a company with an exceptional culture and policies to back it up.
            In my parallel fantasy universe, every company has HR like that.
            However, my opinion has been formed, so far, by 40 years of experience.

      3. Anne of Green Gables*

        If finding a lawyer sounds intimidating for you, look up your state’s bar association. Most state bar associations have a matching service. If you use the matching service, your initial consultation, usually 30 minutes, is a flat fee. The states I’ve looked up have flat fees ranging from $35-$50.

        For my state, you put in your zip code and the general area of law you need and it will give you a list of names. When you schedule that initial consultation, you mention that you found them via the bar association matching service. The process varies from state to state but it’s fairly straight forward.

        1. Bibliothecarial*

          I recently did that for a very different issue and it was so smooth and easy (in 2 different states even!) to find lawyers in the field I needed. The commentariat here is truly wonderful.

        2. tw1968*

          And then…EXPENSE THAT SH*T TO YOUR COMPANY!!! Since they are the ones who have put all these roadblocks into a perfectly reasonable accommodation request.

          1. MigraineMonth*

            I think the way you do that is sue them to cover legal fees. Not sure it’s worth the hassle.

            1. tw1968*

              True. I was thinking of how, in a more just world, LW would have a lawyer write the letter to the company, pointing fingers at the incompetent HR dept and 3rd party group and the mgmt that enabled all this. Then LW submits an expense report for these minor costs and asks “do I charge this to HR’s budget, the 3rd party’s, or general mgmt?”

        3. Ajay*

          I am suspicious of most lawyers. Better ask your friends and relatives. Hire the one they recommend, even if more expensive. Bad lawyers may hurt you instead of helping.

      4. Dawn*

        Yes, exactly, came here to say precisely this, at this point it’s time to say to them that you are requesting a reasonable accommodation under the ADA and that, while you would prefer not to, you are prepared to involve legal counsel.

      6. Steve Jobs' ghost*

        I have read through a lot of the discussion, where “lawyer up” keeps being brought up.

        Now, I love me any chance to highlight HR incompetence, and I hate the idea of hot-desking, at least for in-office employees.

        But the problem here is that — having read the letter several times — it is unclear to me that the employer is in the wrong or is revoking her accommodation.

        OP suffers from an orthopedic condition that requires a special chair (and, in her original letter, a standing desk). Her condition does not require a permanent desk, as opposed to a hot-desk. The company has not said it is removing the special chair, merely her permanent desk. Thus, the accommodation remains in place.

        I suppose you could argue that hot-desking represents a de facto removal of the accommodation — for example, if OP has to hot desk on Floor 3 one day and Floor 4 the next, it would be difficult for her to lug the chair upstairs frequently. Or perhaps not all the hot-desks have standing desk capability. Or perhaps interlopers might commandeer her chair.

        But I could also see ways to preserve the accommodation. For instance, the company could assure OP that she would always get a hot-desk in a specific zone of the office. Or the company could ensure that all the hot-desks have standing desk capability.

        Don’t get me wrong, I think hot desking is ridiculously disruptive, and that permanent desks are an important incentive to finally get people back to the office. But I don’t see how they are required as an accommodation.

        1. Jessen*

          The problem, I think, is that the employer not only has no plan to ensure OP retains access to their chair, they’re essentially expecting her to renegotiate the entire accommodation because they want to switch over. Especially since there were concerns even in the first letter about other people borrowing her chair and not having a place to store it, and that would only get worse in a hot-desking situation. And they took an egregious amount of time to manage the accommodation in the first place.

          I don’t think the lawyer would be over the hot desking specifically – it would be to force the company to come up with SOME plan to ensure OP keeps access to their chair and a compatible desk in a reasonable amount of time.

          1. JustaTech*

            And the overarching and more serious problem is that HR doesn’t seem to have any systems in place to keep records of employee’s accommodations. Even if there’s been a lot of turn over of HR staff since the LW got her chair and the person who first got the LW’s email about the chair didn’t know about it, HR should have some kind of system where they could look up the LW and see, oh yes, this person has an accommodation.

            Years ago the HR staff at my company had some kind of major turnover and in the process lost everyone’s documentation that they were legally allowed to work in the country, so everyone had to bring in their passport or immigration card to be scanned and re-uploaded (stuff that was part of our onboarding). It was not a good sign of the state of our HR.

            Hopefully, in the best of all worlds, the LW’s HR turnover includes some new folks who want to do better who will see this as a wakeup call about their lack of systems and will put those systems in place so this never happens again. Hopefully.

        2. Grammar Penguin*

          If the exemption from hot-desking was part of the accommodation agreement in addition to the chair, then wouldn’t it be an ADA violation to later rescind it?

    3. The other sage*

      This is so bananapants that I would also say that in the long term, another company that doesn’t make such a big fuss over a chair is the only solution.

      I also wonder on what other levels OP’s company is bananapants.

    5. Overthinking it*

      Not before burning this place to the ground – metaphorically speaking, of course. It’s lawyer time! (And do NOT settle till you get your legal fees paid by the company.)

    6. duinath*

      This is a dumpster fire. If they can do this again, now, they’re just going to keep doing it. They do not care.

      Evacuate. And I agree with the people suggesting speaking to a lawyer.

    7. ThursdaysGeek*

      It’s possible they WANT the OP to find another job, and this is their way of making that happen.

    9. The Bigger the Hair…the closer to god*

      It’s not the LW’s fault that the HR person bailed on that company! Isn’t this stuff very legally protected? This just gave me a migraine and I’m not the one living it!

  2. Chairman of the Bored*

    Organizations absolutely should keep durable records of things like this, but very often they don’t.

    This is why the employee should always maintain their own proof of important decisions like this, like LW did.

    Nobody will care about your stuff as much as you care about your stuff.

    1. fhqwhgads*

      Yeah but if you save your own copy, provide it back to them, and their response is still “nah, start over”….this is a new level incompetence and hard-headedness.

      1. Azure Jane Lunatic*

        Yeah, this is hot garbage and should be treated like a work-breakup level disaster.

  3. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

    Now might be the time to add a slipcover to that chair with your name emblazoned on it like a sports jersey.

    1. NobodyHasTimeForThis*

      And maybe a fake stain that looks gross so nobody else really wants to sit there.

      1. Azure Jane Lunatic*

        Maybe using fancy hot chocolate (not containing any milk) made with water, in a narrow area filtered through fabric, in the middle of the chair to simulate a dried-on menstrual mishap, if LW is equipped to have menstrual mishaps?

      2. Chirpy*

        But you don’t want someone to come along and throw out the chair because it has a gross stain, though….

    2. Anonariffic*

      And get a bicycle cable lock to chain it up every night in case somebody ignores the name.

      1. Can’t think of anything clever*

        Thanks for the reminder of the guy who did just that. It wasn’t any accommodation, just a regular office chair but apparently the night shift liked his settings and couldn’t figure out his “special Trick”. It would disappear every night and take forever to find in the field of basic chairs so he chained it to the copy area shelving.

      2. porridge fan*

        Even if you can’t chain the chair TO something, you could still use one or more bike locks to make it impossible to sit in. *innocentface*

  5. Caramel & Cheddar*

    “I shared all of this with the HR team, explained the lengthy process I went through to get this chair, forwarded emails from HR confirming everything, but they are making it sound like I will need to go back through all of this all over again.”

    Ridiculous!! I’m sorry, LW. Their first option was to acknowledge the slip up and just let you keep your desk. The second option was to just take the documentation you sent them a second time (!) and accept that it had already been approved and just let you keep your desk. There’s no reason you should have to go back to the third party to get this sorted *again*. Ridiculous.

    1. Bird names*

      All of the above. This should have been resolved within 5 minutes.

      They have wasted more than enough of your time, LW. You are absolutely *not* overstating things.

    2. Silver Robin*

      Seriously, why can they not take the documentation OP clearly already has and use that for their files? This makes absolutely no sense. I cannot imagine a system where the 3rd party (still reeling about it being 3rd party) has to be the only ones to file the formal accommodation and that internal HR has no ability to add that note somehow? What is going on??

      1. Fluffy Fish*

        side thought – if the 3rd party isnt horrid like this one, i can actually see merits to using an outside company. i’m currently going through the accommodation process and one of my biggest concerns is people knowing my actual issue. should they have access to that? no. is there a history of people being told things they shouldn’t and gossiping anyway? ya.

        1. Overthinking it*

          “Third party” doesn’t mean neutral. They work for the employer. And how is their value as a contractor measured? Probably by the amount they save the company be denying or downgrading accommodations- cause they sure aren’t providing value by saving HR staff time!

          1. Dawn*

            A good outside vendor in situations where anonymity is necessary, and/or you want to avoid situations where retaliation could happen, is worth their weight in gold. They’re often more up-to-date on the law as well, as this is their sole area of responsibility – same reason my diabetes care is in the hands of a diabetes specialist and not my family doctor.

            The company I formerly worked for used an anonymous third-party service for ethics complaints and it worked out great. It all just depends on how good the vendor is. And a good vendor would save the company money in this situation – by just directing them to buy the chair and thus avoiding potential legal troubles, as lawyers are far more expensive than chairs.

            1. Silver Robin*

              “lawyers are more expensive than chairs” gave me a much needed chuckle, thank you XD

              1. LingNerd*

                Not necessarily for the LW though! High end office chairs are often several hundred or even low thousands, so a “remove your head from your rear end or else” letter from a lawyer is probably cheaper

          2. Fluffy Fish*

            I didn’t say they would be neutral. Also many accommodations are no-low cost. No every company hires vendors for cut-throat cost savings purposes. Many hire vendors for specialized expertise when needed as that’s often cheaper than hiring someone in-house for things not often dealt with.

            I was simply saying there could be value with a GOOD third-party for discretion purposes. Peoples examples of lawyers and ethics are solid examples. Not every company is rotten and corrupt and out to screw their employees.

        2. Silver Robin*

          I was definitely thinking of it like handling accomodations should be an expected part of HR so why have an internal HR and a vendor HR when you could just properly staff your own HR?

          But I hear your point about anonymity! that and the ethics hotline example below has me reeling less

          1. Dawn*

            I think maybe you actually have to go through it at least once before you realize how incredibly common it actually is for managers to retaliate against people who need an accommodation, simply for needing an accommodation.

            I’ve worked in any number of offices in the past where the logic seemed to be, “If you make yourself a squeaky wheel, we will make your life miserable until you quit.” A third party can’t completely prevent that from happening, but it can help a lot when the manager doesn’t actually have to be involved in the process and they understand that the third-party’s job is making sure that the company is in compliance with their legal obligations.

            1. Silver Robin*

              A manager does not have to be any more involved with and internal HR though, either? At least not in this case when the accommodation is a chair and not like, an adjustment to management style or something

              I definitely believe retaliation is a thing! I just do not really see how having a 3rd part HR meaningfully influences the involvement of a manager (assuming all parties competent, which…I know is an assumption)

              1. Dawn*

                It ensures (and yes, that “as long as everyone is competent” is important) that the manager receives no more information than is necessary, and is involved no more than is necessary. In many cases they don’t even need to know that an accommodation was made. The chair is a difficult example here, because it’s very clearly visible, but there are lots of accommodations which wouldn’t require anything that’s obviously linked to a disability, and with the actual disability part being handled exclusively by the third party, the company themselves may never know exactly what they’re accommodating. And that all really does make a difference when it comes to accommodations; by the OP’s own admission in this case, the mere mention of the chair became a frustration to their manager. Whereas if this had been handled correctly, they’d have left the office one day and come back the next to find a chair and a note from HR saying “Jane needs a permanent desk and this at it” and it creates much less aggravation for them.

                I know I’m rambling and not explaining this super well, but… accommodations are a whole course if you take an HR certificate, right? So to some extent, please take my word for it that reducing the company’s own contact with the accommodations process is pretty directly related to reducing retaliation for “making them do it”.

          2. Fluffy Fish*

            I think a lot of companies probably don’t have frequent accommodations requests, so they’re maybe not as experienced in handling them. I’ll tell you my initial conversation with the person at my company, she tried to direct me to FMLA. She’s very nice and meant well but I wasn’t asking for leave. So even anonymity aside, I can see the value in having experts contracted to handle them as they come up.

            Not this company though, this company is terrible.

  6. Nicosloanica*

    Is this the same company with the six month long coffee committee, or whatever? They stink.

  7. blah*

    LW you are not making a mountain out of a molehill, this should entirely be HR’s “problem” to solve (I say “problem” because this isn’t one, it had already been resolved a year go)! Is there any way your manager could help you escalate this issue?

    1. AnonForThisOne*

      Incognito for this one as if anyone on this also worked for this very large company I’m going to fully out myself.

      It’s possible I’m reading this whole thing through the lens of my own experience, but I’m really curious how much of this is HR’s “fault” vs a ridiculous process someone put into place that they can’t get out of.

      At a prior company, we outsourced FMLA. The incompetence of this company was mind numbing… people denied because they hadn’t worked 5 years, told they didn’t get 12 weeks and, my personal favorite, the woman who was denied pregnancy leave because, I kid you not, you took pregnancy leave 2 years ago, you can only take it once.

      It’s possible HR is ridiculous. (And forgetting initially to send in the form does make me wonder.) But it’s also possible it’s the third party. I know in my company if we tried to go around the ridiculous company it was a BIG DEAL and we were told we’d done a VERY BAD THING.

      Not that this really helps OP in this silliness…more just a thought.

      1. Kella*

        There certainly could be ridiculous policies that HR is being required to follow, but in the original email, OP repeatedly complained about HR just flat out not responding to emails for weeks at a time, and then acting as if OP’s follow-up emails didn’t exist. That’s not following policy. That’s incompetence.

  8. Miss Chanandler Bong*

    Good grief, if this is how this company handles a mundane accomodation like a CHAIR, I hate to think what they would do with someone who would need more accomodations. Probably never get it done and the person would eventually just quit.

    1. Overit*

      100% that. My friend had a well documented and proven disability that required easy accommodation. She never found an employer willing to make the accommodation. Always a “delay”, an “unavoidable issue”.
      Except for the time a well known software company recruited her. shebwasnassured that the accommodation woukd be made. Of course! But….not there during training. She asked the trainer about the accommodation. Trainer looked at her and said, “No. I do not do accommodations. Ever. For anyone. Quit now because I will ensure you fail.” This company’s HR said, “Oh. Sorry and good luck!” FTR, no lawyer was willing to take on that case.
      Friend was eventually classed as “unemployable” because she could not find ANY employer over a 3 year period who would actually make the accommodation.
      The ADA was absolutely useless for her. She was evicted, had her car repossessed, absolute nightmare before she finally got Disability.

      2. Athena*

        Does your friend have this all in writing?! Not discounting what you’re saying, but if they do it’s shocking to me that an employment lawyer wouldn’t take up this case or at least that nothing would come from an EEOC complaint.

      3. Learn ALL the things*

        The ADA as it currently stands isn’t all that useful for disabled people, because the only way to enforce it is to sue. If you can’t find a lawyer willing to take your case, or you can’t afford said lawyer (which a lot of disabled people can’t, because being disabled is freaking expensive), you essentially cannot get access to the rights that are supposedly enshrined in law.

        I would love to see the ADA amended with an option for actual legal enforcement, like a board you can report violations to who will investigate and impose sanctions.

    2. Quill*

      I do wonder if in the eyes of some employers or HR persons, that is the feature of a third party with a lot of documentation requirements, not the bug.

      (Given that the 3rd party in the original letter claimed that OP’s doctor probably didn’t exist, I feel safe in asserting that they are one of the ones that suck.)

      1. MigraineMonth*

        Absolutely everyone in this Kafka-esque nightmare sucks: the 3rd party, HR, whoever is failing to monitor HR, and OP’s manager who isn’t stepping up to advocate for their report. I would have (possibly literal) steam coming out of my ears.

        Is there any higher level of HR that can be appealed to? Maybe one that is familiar with their legal obligations?

    4. Moose*

      HR has been giving me the run around about working hybrid as a documented accommodation, even though my boss is already letting me do that and it will cost the company $0, so. Bureaucracy driven ableism is a pretty big problem.

  9. I'm A Little Teapot*

    I would seriously consider consulting an attorney. Because they’re NOT respecting the accommodation, and that’s a violation of law. You may not ultimately choose to go the legal route, but I think it’s worth considering. And the lawyer could give you some advice on how to handle this anyway.

    1. Llama mama*

      That was my thought, I’m not sure, but it seems like the responsibility for maintaining the accommodation rests with the company and not with that one person who retired (or whatever) last year. I have no direct legal training, although I do have to deal with accomodations in my job, and revoking one because ‘we forgot’ seems very legally tenuous. Hopefully a lawyer would give you the right wording to address it without needing to do anything more.

    2. Snow Globe*

      This was my thought. First, because an attorney could help ensure that the approved accommodation remains in place, but second because it appears that the HR team does not actually understand how badly they are messing up and what is actually required by law. Bringing in an attorney might help not just the LW but any other employees who might request accommodations in the future.

    3. B*

      I agree. In addition to offering advice, a lawyer could very likely sort this all out with a polite but stern letter. HR is not accurately assessing how big a deal this is and needs some external pressure.

      1. Bilateralrope*

        That’s what I’d go with. Get the lawyer to write a letter that makes it clear that, should the accommodation be illegally revoked, legal action will take place immediately.

        Then follow through on it. Keep everything on the LW’s (and their lawyers) timetable, not HRs

      2. Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender*

        Yes, this is where I land. A letter or even just a phone call from a lawyer could immediately cut through all the shenanigans here.

    4. I strive to Excel*

      +1

      OP, it is not your problem that the person who did your original accommodation retired. That’s a whole lot of their problem.

      I feel like an email saying “I want to confirm that you are revoking my legally documented ADA accommodation (see attached documents) because X has left the company and his documents were disorganized” would be helpful. Or go directly to an ADA lawyer. And new job hunting.

    5. Pair of Does*

      Yeah you’d be doing future disabled staff a favor by holding their feet to the fire over this. This is unacceptable.

    7. Hroethvitnir*

      1000%. I get why the cost and energy of getting a lawyer is often prohibitive, but what hr is asking is even worse as far as energy goes. Having a lawyer read HR the riot act is badly needed in general if there’s any way the LW can swing it.

      I assume starting by asking for advice from the ADA (not American, not sure how but I assume that’s a thing) would be helpful and they might be able to recommend a lawyer.

      The general (awful) attitude here makes me think looking for another job is also a good idea, but this situation is infuriating.

  10. FG*

    This is where I demand an in-person meeting with the frickin’ head of HR.

    To be somewhat fair, reading through a team of previous emails to grok a long chain of events managed by someone else can be difficult. Time for face to face to walk through it & hand the the relevant email, form, & letter printouts at each stage, tipped with a clear timeline you write up of the whole cluster. Make it bullet points, easy to skim.

    1. Bird names*

      Good idea. Slowly cover them in paper just to truly drive the point home. *only partially joking*

    2. SmallCog*

      When my daughter was born, HR claimed she couldn’t be put on my insurance the minute she was born because I did not inform them of her impending birth within the two week time frame prior to her birth. After multiple insane back and forths, I cc’d her manager. Funny how it was immediately resolved in my favor.

      1. Overthinking it*

        (Haha!) I am amazed that your daughter had a manager within weeks of her birth! And given that she was employed, wouldn’t she have qualified for employer insurance in her own rjght? (I know what you meant- I just couldn’t resist! Please forgive me. )

        1. Bumblebee*

          Well, my infant once received a letter from our statewide HR system asking him if he’d thought about retirement yet, so I wouldn’t be surprised if your daughter had a manager already!

      2. MigraineMonth*

        Whereas my company went ahead and added my spouse to my insurance without even asking me. I also didn’t have a spouse, so that was a bit awkward.

      3. LingNerd*

        That’s such a nonsense rule because there are situations, uncommon but not unheard of, where you might have a baby when you aren’t expecting to. I’m thinking less of cryptic pregnancies (which are very rare) and more of premature births. The only time those are planned for/expected are with multiples, and even then it can happen earlier than hoped!

        1. Banana Pyjamas*

          Premature birth is also sometimes planned when the mother has certain medical conditions as well. I had a planned induction at 38 weeks and 5 days because diet and medication weren’t controlling my gestational diabetes. It’s also common for HELLP syndrome and pre-eclampsia.

        2. Coverage Associate*

          Even fairly small community hospitals will deliver a baby at 36 weeks as sufficiently full term, rather than transferring the patient to a larger hospital with a full NICU. That could mean adding a baby to insurance a full month earlier than expected, and there wouldn’t automatically be a ton of medical documentation explaining the surprise, because babies at 36 weeks can be healthy.

        3. Just Another Cog in the Machine*

          Also, what if you just said “To be safe, I will inform them extra early of their impending birth,” and the baby was born on time. Do they not get added because they didn’t “exist” when you said they would? Or what if the baby is late? “Oh, you missed your window.”

  11. Not Your Average Bear*

    I’m not sure if there is any legal recourse here but it seems to me that a consultation with an attorney specializing in workplace law/ADA accommodations would be money well spent. Perhaps a letter from a law office would help them ‘remember’ how to HR.

    1. bamcheeks*

      I am in the UK, but I’d be amazed if, “we didn’t keep a record of your documented accommodation so you’ve got to do it all again” was defensible in court. The legislation would be absolutely pointless you can just institutionally ~forget it~ because someone moved on.

      1. Nah*

        Not just that, but “you have all the documentation of your accommodation and have presented it to us” and their response was “naaaaah, we don’t want to….”

  12. Sparkles McFadden*

    You are NOT making a mountain out of a molehill. Unfortunately, you will have to be proactive eventhough all of this is HR’s responsibility. Also, as someone has already suggested, label the hell out of your chair.

    This won’t make you feel better, but this sort of nonsense happens everywhere for a variety of reasons, especially when there’s a regime change. It absolutely should NOT happen with a medical accommodation, but a shocking number of people seem to believe that medical accommodations need to be “revisited” because “it’s not fair that someone is getting something different.”

    1. jez chickena*

      This. I have worked for several organizations that viewed accommodations as the recipient stealing something from the company. I wish I were kidding.

  13. Ecal10*

    It might be worth hiring an attorney to draft a letter to them advising of their obligations under the ADA and other relevant laws. You are not making a mountain out of a molehill. Maybe a law firm letterhead with some strong words is the reminder they need.

  14. stacers*

    Where are actual common sense people with some authority in this situation? Does your manager have an office where the chair can be kept when you’re not there? Security? Janitorial services?

    There should be no debating the actual accommodation, which is the chair. This is just to ensure your access to it. My god, how do the people who run this company at any level not have enough autonomy to ensure that a single chair can be made available?

    Bring a highly secure bicycle lock chain and secure it to the drinking fountain pipes or, like Pee-Wee chaining his bike to the clown statue (OK, bad example, since it didn’t work), somewhere high-profile in the lobby.

    Your initial comparison to ‘The Office’ remains spot-on. Everyone with any authority whatsoever should be embarrassed that they could not find a straightforward way to solve this.

    1. I strive to Excel*

      You’re assuming that the people with common sense are the people with authority.

      These people clearly don’t, and are perfectly happy doing minimal work while drowning OP in the paper sea.

    2. Quinalla*

      Yes, I was going to your manager and telling them “Hey, HR may be making a deal out of this again, can you escalate this up the HR chain as needed for me?” Can you boss throw his weight around or get their boss involved, something? This is so utterly ridiculous and you are NOT overreacting to what looks like them wanting to put you through additional months of headache & pain for no reason. I get the initial confusion with someone having left the HR team, there should be no question of them reinstating the accommodation after you sent them all the original communications. The 3rd party does NOT need to review or if they do, then your current accommodation should stand and HR should make sure 3rd party review is quick and painless and is them talking to 3rd party with minimal to zero involvement from you.

      1. MigraineMonth*

        Unfortunately, in the original letter the manager was not only unwilling to get involved, they didn’t want to hear about the issue and seemed ready to take it out on LW that they couldn’t come in to the office before their accommodation got sorted out. I hope they’ve grown as a person since then (or been replaced).

      2. Mentally Spicy*

        Or even better than that: HR is being useless again. Can we just quietly solve this problem on our own?

        I feel like a good manager would already be there. Finding a way to make it work without bothering HR about it. (Mind you, a good manager, when they originally saw the number of hoops LW was going through, would have said “you know what? Just work permanently from home.”)

    3. Azure Jane Lunatic*

      Label it somewhere visible, and then put labels on much less visible portions of the chair, so if someone scrapes off the main label there will be the backup ones.

      My dad had a personal symbol that he put on all his stuff instead of his initials, and if you have a thing like that, that could also get put somewhere on the chair, or several somewheres.

    4. Dood*

      I would like to give you a round of applause, if that’s okay, because this is a brilliant and accurate comment.

  15. A Simple Narwhal*

    Whaaaaaat?? Are we sure the people in charge aren’t actually a bunch of bees in a trench coat? It should not be this hard to have one person have one special chair.

    Keep us updated OP, we’re rooting for you! (Also I’m sorry it’s been this much strife over a chair. Is your job/company otherwise incredible? If not I’d seriously consider job hunting, you should not be getting harassed this much over something so simple.)

    1. Red Sky*

      I feel like bees have their shit together and are way more organized than this HR dept; now an HR run by 3 trash pandas in a trench coat would totally make sense

      1. Wilbur*

        Yeah, people on this site keep on disparaging bees but the fact is honeybees operate as a social democracy run by the workers. The workers will control which cells are available for the queen to lay in, decide whether or not to replace the queen, decide if it’s time to swarm and reproduce at a colony level. Research has shown that when swarming, scout bees will find new nesting locations, communicate them to other scout bees, and come to a consensus on where their new home. For the most part, they prefer not to bother people to the point that you can open their hives without being bothered. They’re focused on the well being of their colony and would not waste their time with nonsense like this.

        I think mice is a better example, scurrying along walls to guide them from place to place leaving trails of poop behind them for others to deal with.

        I would make some nice big labels with your name on it and slap it on a desk of your choice. OP has been granted an accomodation, it’s up to the company to show that it’s not needed, a suitable alternative has been produced, or that it places undue hardship on the company.

  16. TPS Reporter*

    so frustrating! on a very practical note (notwithstanding that HR is wrong and you should definitely keep fighting this) can you keep the chair in a secure location overnight or otherwise label the chair such that everyone knows that it’s exclusively yours?

    1. Anne Shirley Blythe*

      Yeah, in regard to labels … if this is unresolved when hot-desking begins (and I get the feeling that’ll be the case) maybe print a sign saying “Chair Unavailable for Hot-Desking” or something like that? Affix sign when you leave each time. Maybe even go all-out and attach a copy of the paperwork if it doesn’t reveal something too personal? X out anything you don’t want seen. Enclose all this in a clear cover or folder if you can … make it look official, BECAUSE IT IS.

      Seriously, go to town on this. I don’t know how this works, but if this had a case number before or something similar, say “Chair Unavailable for Hot Desking per State of XYZ [or Federal?], case number 424242TPS. Best of luck, OP.

    2. amoeba*

      Also, how are you colleagues and how many different people do you actually share the open office with? I mean, I absolutely agree that this is ridiculous and hope it’s very quickly cleared up! But if not… My colleague has a special chair and none of us would ever think of taking it. Just because from the optics it’s pretty clear it’s not one of the usual ones, he didn’t even put a name on it or anything. It’s generally standing at “his” desk, which actually pretty much makes it his most of the time (even though he puts his stuff away every night)! The most I’ve seen is people push it to the side and use the desk with another chair when he’s not in. So basically, with nice-ish/reasonable colleagues I actually wouldn’t expect too many problems…

      But still, your HR sucks and you shouldn’t have to rely on that!

      1. Anononomanon*

        From the first update it sounded like their colleagues were also horrified at the HR inefficiencies so there is hope for your solution!

  17. Ess Ess*

    I agree with a few other people. It is time to bring in an employment lawyer specializing with ADA accomodations. They are deliberately making this difficult in order to discourage accomodations.

  19. The ads are making the page reload every 3 seconds can anyone hear me*

    “Shouldn’t records like this be kept in some sort of software/official record-keeping process so that even if an HR staff member leaves or is terminated, there is historical documentation for all of this?”

    In theory, yes. In practice, people are pretty dumb and still don’t know how SharePoint/Google Drive/One Drive/Dropbox/etc work. Or care to learn. Because: dumb and lazy. And comfortable bring dumb and lazy.

    This sucks and I feel bad for you. Stop wasting energy on jumping through all the hoops your very lazy, very incompetent HR department is setting out (AGAIN), and instead focus all that energy and time on finding a new job. Good luck!!

    1. I strive to Excel*

      I agree. If they actually wanted to get it done, here’s how it would look:

      “Hmm, we seem to have lost Brandon’s paperwork. Tell you what – for now, we’ll loop in your boss to make sure that you have backup in saying ‘actually this is my desk and chair’, and you just keep your desk and chair and don’t hot desk while we figure out what’s going on in the backend”.

      That would cost them nothing.

    2. Martin Blackwood*

      even if internal HR is a total mess…why cant they hit up this third party service like “hey we need a copy of the approval for John Doe’s chair” and now a new person has it?

      1. Bilateralrope*

        The same third party service that tried to deny the existence of the LW’s doctor ?

        Yeah, I’m not expecting them to be much help to anyone. Except in increasing the size of the payout when they, or an employer that contracts them, gets sued.

    3. dulcinea47*

      occurs to me it’s entirely possible they *do* have the paperwork still, they just havent bothered to look for it.

    4. Orv*

      My workplace keeps telling us to use cloud services, then telling us to stop using them when they inevitably jack up the price of storage.

  20. SandyQ*

    Wow. If a company has hot desks then on a high level WFH should easily be accommodated. I get going thru a third party to make sure approvals are being handled appropriately and legally but that company and the process is ridiculous. It feels like you’d have to contact them to ask for a bandaid for a paper cut.

    Regardless of anyone’s medical condition, ergonomic chairs and standing desks and standing mats are so reasonable anyway. And inexpensive enough to increase moral in a note-worthy way.

    1. Anono-mouse*

      At our old location (office job) you could request a tabletop standing platform and standing mat, but when we moved to our new location where every desk is an official standing desk the mats were confiscated and banned due to being a trip hazard, now everyone has a standing desk but only a few (all thin and male) people use them in standing mode. When I worked as a cashier every station had a mat, apparently office workers are inherently more trip prone than cashiers?

      1. Dood*

        I’m appalled. Not providing the mats for standing desks is a far bigger WHS hazard and risk than any supposed trip hazard. What absolute garbage!

  21. Enough*

    I just do not understand this,third party requirement for a permanent desk. What are they so afraid of? Or do they just want cover if employees don’t like the answer they get? Sorry, the experts said no. There is nothing we can do.

    1. Coco*

      HR person here: 3rd party administrators are really common and can be beneficial. But only when done correctly! This 3rd party sucks.

    2. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

      They’re just using the third party for all ADA accommodations, many of which are more nuanced and expensive than a chair. But that’s no excuse for losing the approval paperwork.

    3. Broadway Duchess*

      My company uses a 3rd party administrator and it’s actually really helpful to us from a management standpoint. We don’t get the particulars of a condition, just what we need to do to accommodate it. It’s meant to increase compliance and make things easier on the employees.

  22. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

    Arses.
    Imo they don’t want you to have a permanent desk because they don’t like exceptions to the misery of hot-desking. They may well be hoping if they make this accommodation difficult enough for you then you’ll give up or leave.
    I suggest contacting your union rep, if you have one, or consulting an employment lawyer for advice.

    1. Bird names*

      It certainly feels like it, even if it turns out to be explained by staggering amounts of incompetence alone. Not that that would be noticably better.

  23. higheredrefugee*

    I would demand a meeting with someone higher up in both your chain AND HR, and if you have anyone who does Risk Management/Compliance. In the meantime, also find an attorney to write a letter outlining possible causes of action under both state and federal law, and demanding immediate remedy to at least your previous accommodation, unless there is something more you’d like to request. good luck! you got this!

  24. megaboo*

    Hotdesking is the worst idea. Unless you’re at a service point, I really think it’s more aggravation than it’s worth.

    1. Kyrielle*

      I mean, my current employer is making people who come in hybrid schedules partially hotdesk (they’ve assigned sections but you don’t always get the same desk) because there are a LOT of them and it uses a LOT less office space than assigned seats…but people who are scheduled in office full time (5 days a week) get an assigned desk, and I’m guessing someone in the OP’s situation would also get an assigned desk (or an assigned chair and a way to keep it separate, but an assigned desk would be the easiest answer to that).

      I can understand not wanting to maintain 4000 offices/desks when only 1500 or so will be in use any given day, but there ought to be reasonable exceptions!

    2. I strive to Excel*

      I worked at one office where hotdesking was OK (not ideal, but OK) – where all the desks were adjustable height, all the office chairs were high quality ergonomic ones, and every desk had a nifty two-monitor setup. Work also provided ergonomic keyboards/mice if needed and those could be carried around and plugged into docks.

      That’s the way to do it, if you must hot-desk.

      1. allathian*

        This is the way my employer’s doing it. Not ideal, but it could be a lot worse. And I fully understand that they wanted to downsize the office because we have a generous WFH policy. My coworker who needs an ergonomic mouse carries it in his bag and my other coworker who prefers to work at the office keeps her ergonomic keyboard/roller mouse in a locker at the office overnight.

        Only the top big boss and his EA have their own offices. So does the registry office. A few employees who require specialized, individually adjusted workstations to do their jobs also have assigned desks, even when the rest of the employees, including C-suite directors, hotdesk when they’re at the office.

        I guess it helps that I’m in a culture where outward displays of wealth and privilege have, at least until very recently, been considered unseemly. The phenomenon of offices as status markers isn’t a thing here, at least not as much as in the US.

        One reason for this is that many collective agreements stipulate that every office employee must have access to daylight in their workspace (with some exceptions for high-security jobs). This doesn’t mean that everyone sits by a window, just that there’s at least one window in every room where there’s a desk.

        My office building looks sort of like a straightened-out, miniature Pentagon, with a central part with elevators and staircases, and a number of wings stretching out from it to maximize window space. In my building, nearly all meeting rooms are windowless and the desks are in rooms with windows. But here it would go against our collective agreements to put people’s desks in a windowless basement, never mind the supply closet. The window doesn’t have to be large. At one time, while our actual office was being renovated, we spent about a year in temporary offices in the basement. These had windows, but they were narrow slits near the ceiling. You couldn’t see out of them, at least not while sitting down, but they did let in some daylight.

        We have a large number of meeting rooms of various sizes and pop-in phone booths for 1:1 meetings and personal and confidential work calls.

    3. Overthinking it*

      “Hot desking was a dumb, trendy idea when everybody was in office 4 or more days a week. Now that employers are offering hybrid schedules as a sop to everyone’s preference for work-from-home, it makes more sense. (It also makes hours working in the office even less desirable, but that’s another issue.)

      1. Random Bystander*

        In-office hybrid as less desirable certainly seems to be the default.

        Back when we first went to wfh, we were offered three options (employee choice):
        a) Complete in-office. Came with assigned desk, no internet stipend. (Some of the people lived sufficiently rural that high-speed internet–required for WFH–was absolutely unavailable)
        b) Complete WFH. Equipment would be sent home, $25/mo internet stipend (better than a kick in the teeth–not enough to get a separate internet connection for the WFH equipment)
        c) Hybrid (number of days in office to be determined). Hot-desk on any in-office days, equipment sent home for WFH days. No internet stipend.

    4. Hamster Manager*

      Yeah I don’t understand what the advantage of hot desking is?? If you don’t have enough room for everyone, get a bigger office or go hybrid/remote. Opting to solve your business problem by making life harder for your employees is dumb. It seems SO unnecessarily annoying and time consuming to have to find a spot every single day, get all your stuff out, and then pack all your stuff up again at the end of the day. Plus you know people are claiming spots anyway, so add in some fun interpersonal tension to the mix.

  25. Brooklynlite*

    On the one hand, I really hope everything works out smoothly for OP (possibly with the help of an employment lawyer). But the other part of me would love an update on chair gate every six months from now until the end of time.

      1. CommanderBanana*

        I’m sure that somewhere out there there is a competent HR person.

        I just have yet to meet one.

    2. knitcrazybooknut*

      Came here to say this, except from the HR side. It makes me furious. I’ve seen companies where an amazing, competent HR team gets new leadership and quickly evacuates the company as the leadership throws their weight around and starts hiring their friends into the department. Leaves a shell of a department and no continuity whatsoever. If no one knows the database exists, how will they find the records about OP’s chair??

      I worked in HR for twelve years, and the amount of damage I’ve seen done by horrible people has frustrated me, because my first experience was with a lovely, kind, compassionate HR Director who taught me everything I know about treating people right and being kind in difficult situations and acting with integrity. I know what it should look like, so it disappoints me a million times over when I see situations like this one.

  28. Sindy*

    What is so important about hot desking that it keeps getting foisted on employees. Get an attorney.

      1. Guacamole Bob*

        I had a friend who worked in consulting where she was mostly on-site at clients’ offices, but between projects or occasionally during a project she’d have to be at her company’s office. Hot desking makes sense in that situation – it would have been a waste of space for her to have a permanent desk that sat empty 90% of the time, but she needed to have workspace available that other 10%.

        I don’t know the tipping point where an assigned space makes sense, but anyone coming in at least 3 days a week should absolutely have a designated desk in my view. 1-2 days a week is borderline (maybe assigned desk sharing, or designated sections of seats or something), and anyone in less than once a week on average can probably do fine with hotdesking.

        1. Ally McBeal*

          I think hotdesking as an organizational norm is insane. There will usually be a couple people for whom hotdesking is both preferred and makes the most sense, but I’d wager that the vast majority of desk-job employees strongly prefer a permanent seat. In a cubicle if not an office, too – none of this “everyone sits at a long table with no privacy” nonsense. I once had to share a literal closet with 7 other people, 9-5 M-F. Never again.

    3. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      It’s because they don’t want to have a desk for every employee. Saves cost in office space. My organization currently has two people assigned to a workspace, just on different days.

  29. Pool Noodle Barnacle Pen0s*

    Yeah, I’m team consult a lawyer on this one. I bet all you need to do after that is send HR an email saying “My attorney will be in touch about next steps,” and this conundrum will be magically sorted within an hour.

    1. Velawciraptor*

      Or ask them “Should my attorney touch base with you, the director of HR, or our legal department?” Less confrontational but equally likely to be effective.

      1. Steve Jobs' ghost*

        That question only reveal OP has not yet hired an attorney.

        Attorneys are ethically prohibited from contacting a represented party directly. They have to contact the represented party’s attorney, i.e., the legal department.

  30. nnn*

    This aligns with something I’ve been thinking about a lot (don’t know if it applies to OP, but I’ve been thinking about it a lot): so many things have to be formal accommodations with increasingly convoluted accommodation processes if you’re working in an office, but are completely effortless if you’re working at home. At home, you put the right chair at your desk and sit in it.

    And so many things have to be formal accommodation processes in hotdesking environments that don’t have to be accommodations with assigned desks. Again, you put your chair at your desk and the job is done.

    2. jasmine*

      to be fair, the accommodation request process doesn’t have to be convoluted. I get paperwork for short term disability, but “I want a chair and permanent desk because I have back pain” should hardly require a signature

    3. dulcinea47*

      Not necessarily. This assumes that you own an appropriate chair at home that you can sit in for many hours in a row. My work chair is a lot fancier and more adjustable than the one I have at home.

      1. Bird names*

        Sure, but in this case the hypothetical chair already exists and now the insurmountable part seems to be getting it paired with a desk.

      2. fhqwhgads*

        Sure but since they did get the chair, if OP could WFH all the time instead of coming in, the chair would just stay at the desk. It’s the combination of “we insist all must hotdesk no exceptions even exceptions we already made” that is ridiculous.

    4. Overthinking it*

      Well, you still want the employer pay for the chair. And they should – good ones can can be quite expensive. (Of course, if you buy it yourself, you don’t have to go through this every time you change jobs. AND you have it to sit in while job searching/preparing your lawsuit!)

  31. Goody*

    Definitely time to lawyer up. Hopefully it’ll just be a matter of the lawyer reviewing your documents and writing a letter reminding the company of their legally mandated obligations.

    It may also be time to seek other employment.

  32. Fluffy Fish*

    This may be worth a strongly worded letter from an attorney about them not honoring the ADA accommodation they agreed to and how that violates the law. Im not a lawyer so I don’t know how much teeth that has in reality, but it may be scary enough to get them to act right.

  33. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

    OP, I think others may have mentioned this, but can you pull in people above you in your chain of command? You should not have to recertify this early, and HR should accept their own records approving the accommodation. They’re opening your company up to a lot of liability through their incompetence. There is no reason you should have to fight to keep an accommodation you already have.

    I know folks have advised getting an attorney to write a letter. That’s always a possibility, but I’d start with your boss/grandboss. Someone outside of HR should be made aware of how incompetent they’re being.

  34. Observer*

    LW, I have to agree with the people who are saying lawyer up. But I also agree with the people who say that you should be looking for a new job.

    Here is the thing. Your HR is pathetically incompetent. What’s not clear is it they are “just” stupid incompetent – so don’t know the law, have no idea of basic records management (I mean not being able to find your file because the person you spoke to retired?!?!?), treat the term “exception” like it’s the bubonic plague, and are only interested in CYA rather than actually being effective. Or are they malevolent as well and think that this is a good, effective and safe way to deny you legally required accommodations – maybe even to drive you out because of your disability.

    Either way, unless there is someone above the people you are working with who will pull them up short and make them do their job *properly*, this place is a beehive, and you really should be looking for a new job for the sake of your sanity. And also for the sake of maintaining reasonable work norms. There is NO WAY that you are “making a mountain out of a molehill.” Unless you asked this in jest, that fact that you would even consider that a possibility worries me a bit.

  36. Lurking Tom*

    Does AAM have an “Awful HR Hall of Fame” yet? Because the HR at this company has the stats and longevity to make them an excellent inaugural member of that Hall.

    1. MissMeghan*

      Right?! Someone has what should be a very logistically easy accommodation. Let’s all panic and send it down 10 rabbit holes from which it will never escape! That’s the best way to comply with the law and be receptive to employee needs. Ugh

  38. SparklingBlue*

    As a fellow person with disabilities, I feel your pain. I wouldn’t jump directly to suing them, but it could be worth talking to a disabilities lawyer/other advocate to know what your options are, and what would be the best course of action.

    1. Overthinking it*

      You can’t really say it’s “jumping directly” given all LW went through the first time, only to wind up back at square one.

    2. i drink too much coffee*

      The lawyer wouldn’t jump right to that step either! I’d guess if OP retained a lawyer, they’d start by drafting a letter to see if that works. It would like be step like, five before actually serving court documents of any kind.

  39. Roy Donk*

    I would love love LOVE to get a calculation of the dollars, in personnel hours, this organization has spent absolutely screwing over this poor employee who just NEEDS A CHAIR WTAFFFFFFFFFOMGGGGGGGG.

      1. Ally McBeal*

        Yes, but she does occasionally, especially when a situation is ongoing and the LW still needs help.

  41. Juicebox Hero*

    Geez, our poor LW got sucked through a wormhole to Bizarro World and can’t get home :(

  42. jasmine*

    you’re not making a mountain out of a molehill and honestly op I support you in making a huge stink and just being very difficult about this until HR can start being sensible

  43. KMFDM me*

    So many work trends only start to make sense if I assume that the people in charge have an unassailable bedrock belief that suffering, not effort, is what drives their profits.

    1. Bird names*

      Yep, looks like Protestant Work Ethic from here. Suffering for the sake of suffering and how dare anyone try to improve things.

  44. Which Sister*

    I see all these posts on LinkedIn from HR people on how everyone picks on them and they don’t understand why everyone hates HR.

    This is why.

      1. Dawn*

        I told my HR that I wanted to negotiate severance when I was laid off and they told me to have my lawyer send them a letter of intent.

        I was like, what, no, I don’t want to sue you, I just want to negotiate with you for the signature you want from me. And they said, “then we’re not negotiating.”

  46. Quill*

    OP: they made the last mountain, it is reasonable to see a molehill coming and start measuring its elevation.

  47. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

    I sincerely hope it turns out to be a molehill. Given the ordeal you went through last year, I totally get why you’d have concerns that this was going to be another round of pure nonsense.

  48. A large cage of birds*

    OMFG, let them keep their desk!

    Others have already said it all. This is insane.

  49. Policy Wonk*

    If you haven’t already advised them you are consulting an employment lawyer, now is the time. Both for the consult and for the threat of legal action.

  50. Overthinking it*

    How clever of your company to hire a third party to “process” (find clever ways to obstruct or delay until you quit or lawyer up) accommodations. Hire your own third party: a lawyer! Or send a letter threaten to if they delay approval more than x days. Truthfully, i hope you sue and break up this little game prrmanantly. The whole thing was ridiculous the first time around; this time it is egregious. The idea they can violate the ADA with impunity by hiring a “third party” to do their dirty work makes my blood boil. If they are large enough to have an HR department at all, they are large enough to have someone on staff “process accommodations.”

  51. CubeFarmer*

    This is either look-for-a-new job time, or get-a-disability-rights-lawyer time.

    Something tells me that a letter from a lawyer asking for clarification on the need to repeat document this ADA-required accommodation, in spite of all the documentation already submitted and on file, might stop this in its tracks.

  53. Theon, Theon, it rhymes with neon*

    UGH! This is reminding me of the time I took 9th grade English and math in 8th grade middle school, moved to a different state for high school, and was initially okayed by the counselor to proceed to 10th grade English and math when starting 9th grade. Two years later, some idiot at my high school noticed that I didn’t have 9th grade English or math on my transcript, so the school was going to mandate that I take 9th grade English and math in 11th grade, *at the same time* as I would be taking 12th grade AP (Advanced Placement) English and 12th grade honors math. It was ridiculously difficult for my mother to make all the phone calls and appointments needed to get my records transferred from the other state, to convince my school that I had taken 9th grade English and math and shouldn’t have to repeat them. Because apparently being a straight-A student, being ranked #1 in my class (I later graduated valedictorian), and taking classes that were meant for 12th graders didn’t mean that it was a no-brainer that retaking the classes for 9th graders would be completely pointless! I was already bored to literal tears by 11th grade math in 10th grade, because we had covered all that material in 9th grade math, back when I was in 8th grade at the other school!

    Fortunately, my mother succeeded in getting my records transferred. But the word Kafkaesque comes to mind.

    1. Last Minute Graduate*

      I transferred to a four year school to get a bachelor’s after getting a bunch of credits, but not an Associate’s, at a JC. I was an English major. I was able to register for and complete all my english courses until my last semester, when the school decided it would no longer accept my English 201 class from the JC and apparently I never should have been allowed to do any of that.

      MWF of my last semester of college I went from English 201 directly to my capstone project class. The only upside was the 201 professor was extremely cool about it, and let me skip one project entirely, and never made me revise my “rough draft” papers. She also gave me an early A and let me out of the last two weeks of classes because she was “sure you have better things to be doing!”

      I would have died for her that semester, haha.

      1. Theon, Theon, it rhymes with neon*

        Why is bureaucracy. Why are people.

        Good for your 201 professor, at least!

    2. Clumsy Ninja*

      Ugh. I had to get my undergraduate advisor to overrule the computer system that decided during spring break of my senior year that I needed to take College Algebra to graduate. I had three semesters of calculus.

    3. CV*

      *nods* I skipped Social Studies in 4th grade, for some reason (suggested by the school) and then there was nothing available for me in Social Studies in 6th grade* So they put me in the 4th grade class.
      I didn’t mind, but the teacher was NOT prepared for the very different kinds of questions an 11-12 year old asks vs. a child 9-10 years old, thanks to enlarged world view due to puberty.

      * 7th grade was an entirely different building miles away

    4. 1LFTW*

      That sounds uncomfortably close to a recurring nightmare I have, in which my high school principal is solemnly informing me that my BA and advanced degrees have been found to be invalid, and will only be reinstated once I re-take my high school gym class.

    5. Tongue Cluckin' Grammarian*

      I applied for a job many many many years after high school (when I already had secondary degrees) and they insisted on a copy of my high school diploma for me to have the job. My diploma was buried in storage somewhere after a couple moves, so I had to call my high school to ask them to send over documentation.
      To be fair, even the person telling me it was required thought the request was dumb after I supplied my BA diploma.

  54. Bruce*

    Sounds like HR are characters from a Kafka novel… maybe from the same one that inspired the pharmacy plan admins who every year would cancel approval for my kid’s meds…

    1. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      I’m having flashbacks to being on contracts with a large organization, who neglected to tell our insurer when contracts got renewed / new contracts were offered. So once or twice a year, I’d get kicked off the extended medical insurance I was paying for with no warning because nobody bothered to tell the insurer I still worked there.

  55. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

    I mean, the accommodation obviously got approved, because THE LW GOT THE FREAKING CHAIR. Why on earth does the LW have to go back to this third party over a company policy about hotdesking? It’s not as much of a “benefit” in the sense of having to buy equipment as it is a need to write policy that doesn’t cause problems. Everything was working fine until they decided to make a policy change…

  56. Jeff*

    I wanted to share the legal jargon “constructive discharge” which refers to working conditions that would motivate a reasonable person to quit.

  57. Roscoe da Cat*

    I work for a federal agency and when I was having shoulder pain, the entire process was my boss saying “go talk to the OSHA group’ and they had me try a few and then bought the ones that work. This process is ridiculous – I would talk to your manager as they might be able to just assign you a desk.

  58. RCB*

    People need to learn the power of the words “I’m not doing that”. I have found it to be very effective, especially when someone is trying to not do their job and pass it off on you, and refusing to engage in their ridiculousness quickly pushes it back on them and they actually handle it.

    “I’m not doing that. This is a formal medical accommodation that has been painstakingly documented and approved and I expect the company to abide by the law. You should have records of it in your files as required.”

    1. Ellis Bell*

      This one. I totally agree with everyone mentioning lawyers and job hunts, but also I think OP has learned on the second go around that you don’t ask incompetent people what’s happening, you tell them what’s happening. Instead of “asking what this means”, communication with them should be more “Resubmitting my accommodation would imply that it’s been revoked, which can’t be the case, as that is illegal. To maintain the legal accommodation that was already granted, we simply need to (insert preferred measures here, like keep a permanent desk or whatever a sensible person would do). Your files should have a record of the accommodation granted in order to be legally compliant, and I have also attached a record of what was decided and when.”

      1. The Unionizer Bunny*

        Agreed that they can’t retroactively revoke OP’s accommodation; they can restart the interactive process if the accommodation has become an undue hardship, but they had better have documentation ready on why circumstances have changed, because “we don’t feel like doing this anymore” is not a valid reason. On the matter of records, though, I think they might be at the right period of time post-accommodation to justify not having those around anymore:

        “29 CFR Part 1602 states that all personnel and employment records made or used by private employers – including requests for reasonable accommodation – must be preserved for one year from the date of making the record or the personnel action involved, whichever occurs later.”
        https://askjan.org/topics/Recordkeeping.cfm
        (But also note that “The duration of the recordkeeping rule is extended to two years for educational institutions and state and local governments.”)

        According to OP’s first update, their chair was provided in early June – “until the last couple of weeks” (posted mid-August) could have been delayed a couple of months, but it seems likely that the company simply doesn’t keep records any longer than the minimum duration required. Companies aren’t required to promptly delete old records (it’s usually better to keep records around longer), and I find the timing here a bit interesting since the company appears to have decided to make these changes just after the records were legally able to expire – an EEOC investigator can inspect their other personnel records to see if anyone else has accommodations from over a year ago, since that would make the absence of OP’s own records stand out.

        Nobody else in HR heard about this happening? I wonder if that’s why the old HR officer was fired – “working” hours and hours without giving their manager a satisfactory accounting of how they spent their time.

  59. lovehollow*

    Start looking for a new job, do not pass Go, do not collect $200. I am sure you are soured on “starting over” with an ADA accommodation at a brand new office, but most workplaces’ HRs are not! this! incompetent!!!

  60. kiki*

    I’m so sorry LW is going through this. But I have to ask— is anyone even going to try to use LW’s desk? Or get mad if LW puts a little sign on their desk to reserve with a short explanation? I’m just wondering if LW’s manager could help them sleep their accommodation without including the incompetent HR dept

    1. merida*

      I was thinking that too! The idea of other people getting angry and jealous over one colleague having a permenant desk as an accomodation (if that’s what HR is worried about? what was with their chaining the chair down idea? lol it is not that complicated) seems to be kind of a nonissue to begin with… but if it did happen then HR should then deal with the complainer appropriately, not make OP give copious documentation just in case. The more I think about it the more bonkers it becomes.

    2. Ellis Bell*

      My head definitely went there, (and I even think it would work in a pinch!) but ableism and jackassery are things which definitely exist. OP’s current coworkers’ sound super nice but let’s say they hire someone in a month who wasn’t around when the original “can you believe the hoops they’re making her jump through” circus was happening and thinks OP “doesn’t look like someone who needs an accommodation”. To this person someone like OP gets away with things and is favoured; I wish I could say I’ve never worked with people like this, but I have even if they ARE a stark minority. Plus hot desking can make people miserable and unreasonable, and “Oh I’m only taking the chair for a minute”. OP needs to know that her medical requirements are protected, not something that people let her have as a favour.

      1. Bird names*

        This, yes, especially your last sentence. If you need to rely on goodwill it just takes one asshole. Hell, even when the law is clear as with LW’s accommodation request, people will still scramble for loopholes thanks to society-wide ableism.

  61. merida*

    This employer is the one making a mountain out of a molehill, not you, OP! I really can’t understand why showing the documentation to HR – when they should have had it already – wasn’t sufficient and they’re continuing to make you jump through hoops. Is it just that they’re wildly disorganized and incompetent, or is there something more happening? Who knows, but if they do take your medical accommodation away, please raise so much hell over it. Actually please raise it either way! And props to you for telling your colleagues earlier about the chair saga (saw the last update). If I worked for a company that handled accommodations this badly I’d want to know.

    1. Lenora Rose*

      I WISH you could ask this question directly to HR without being chided for a total lack of professionalism: “Is it just that they’re wildly disorganized and incompetent, or is there something more happening?”

      (NB: DO NOT DO THIS.)

  62. We still use so much paper!*

    While I think an attorney isn’t a bad idea, what if you didn’t change anything? Just kept your current desk and chair. Your coworkers are used to it by now and won’t think anything of it if it’s the same.

    1. Ellis Bell*

      I could be totally wrong as it’s not explicitly said, but it sounds like they’re sending people in to move around the layout.

    2. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      In theory that could work until you get that 1 person who has a bee in her bonnet and doesn’t want to comply. Or you get a new person.
      And what happens if someone uses the chair and it breaks?

  63. dolphin dancer*

    If this place is big enough for an HR department why are they using a 3rd party for accommodations. And an accommodation that’s already established (with her proof). It’s not rocket science. And when you get that lawyer letter, send copies to all the high ups! Sounds like you have a rouge HR department!

  64. ThisIsNotADuplicateComment*

    Strongly worded lawyer’s letter! Strongly worded lawyer’s letter!

    I am also on team “consider looking for a new job.” You may not interact with HR that often, but they’ve proven to be so incompetent I just… can’t.

  65. I'm just here for the cats!!*

    Heck, even just talking with HR and saying “do I need to get a lawyer involved” might shake things up.

  66. Anne Shirley Blythe*

    As soon as I saw another update, I thought “Oh no…”

    I’m so sorry you are dealing with this absurdity. You are not making a mountain of a molehill. You simply want to be able to put in a full workday in a reasonably comfortable manner. “Yes” to your questions near the end of your letter.

  67. MistOrMister*

    I do not understand this at all!! I can see them wanting to say no permanent desks in general, but what in the world is the answer for why OP can’t have a permanent seat as part of their accomodation?? I had a job where the managers had offices and the rest of the floor was a cube farm. There was one extra empty office on the floor and it stayed empty until we had a staff member start that had a lung condition that required a bit more space between them and everyone else. They were given the empty office and I cannot fathom HR coming along down the line and taking the office away just because they decided no staff should have an office ever. I mean come on people! There are times where it is appropriate to allow one person a “perk” that no one else gets when it’s to save their health.

  68. Lenora Rose*

    I wonder what happens if you just refuse? If you say, “No, my accommodation is documented, you have the documentation, which I have sent you repeatedly. I am not moving desks, I am not giving up the chair that keeps me from being in agony.” What if you are polite in all other ways, and professional, but just don’t let them move you?

    And is there nobody above HR you can escalate this to or appeal to?

  69. migrating coconuts*

    Employment lawyer/disability lawyer NOW. And contact your local news station to do a piece. This is ada discrimination.

  70. i drink too much coffee*

    1. You need an employment lawyer.

    2. Before you find one, first look up if you have an EAP at your job! Many include a small number of legal consults… so you could consult a lawyer and charge your company for it. I’m just saying. ;)

  71. Fiachra*

    Can you imagine this escalating further and HR trying to argue that the accommodation was null and void because the people who processed it no longer worked there? Do you renegotiate your contract every time they get a new hiring manager? Bonkers company.

  72. Sociology Rocks!*

    This is so absolutely, patently ridiculous that it made my jaw actually drop in awe. I am so sorry you are dealing with this asinine mess, and I hope whatever route you take, be it lawyering up, getting a new job, or escalating the issue as high as it can go, produces strong and vicious results

  73. AnonymousOctopus*

    I could have written this letter. After the 5th time being forced to get a formal accommodation for a simple request, I had had enough and found a new job (20% raise and few hours required) within 10 days! Literally did the interviews and aptitude tests and received an offer in 10 days. Tomorrow is my last day at my incompetent ableist company and I couldn’t be happier. Plus my new company gives all employees a yearly equipment stipend to buy things without having to get an accommodation! There are better jobs out there, OP. Run and don’t look back. Best of luck to you!

  74. Sociology Rocks!*

    Ya know, I think the sorriest part of this whole thing, is that it might actually be worth your while to just buy your own chair to bring with you here or where ever you go next. Just for the piece of mind that it’s you own property and they can’t take that away from you

  75. Indolent Libertine*

    This… this is why we need the phrase “I can’t even.” I umpteenth the advice to get a lawyer and have them write a strongly worded letter. Whatever their hourly fee is, it’s well worth it for them to be the ones doing battle with HR on your behalf. Best of luck keeping the bananas at bay.

  76. Bookworm*

    Nothing to add, OP, other than I am SO sorry you’re going through this and it sucks. If you’re willing/able, I’d love to know how it turns out. Because this is positively ridiculous and there’s no reason for you to go through all of this.

  78. HD*

    This really sounds like some higher-up noticed that OP had a new chair and wasn’t hot-desking and thought “if we let one person have all this then everyone else will want it too.” There’s a strong feeling of someone stonewalling and designating HR as the bad guy in the situation.

  79. Anonymoose*

    This is like my having to jump through hoops every year to essentially beg for my accommodation to be renewed because my disability and chronic conditions are still, you know, a disability and chronic.

  81. Witch of Oz*

    No to hotdesking. I thought this stupidity had fallen out of fashion. It always seems to be brought in by people who have offices and don’t need to wander around every morning looking for a desk and somewhere to put their stuff.
    How do your coworkers feel about it? If they hate it, can you band together and push back? So you can ALL keep your regular desks and chairs?

    1. allathian*

      Given the choice, which would you rather have, an opportunity to WFH more than occasionally or a mandatory return to the office? I love being able to WFH and I don’t mind hotdesking on the days I do go into the office (about once every two weeks).

      I agree that hotdesking sucks if everyone’s at the office every day anyway.

  82. Boat*

    Just noting general solidarity with the OP; this situation is ridiculous. As someone who needs a similar accommodation myself, I also find it frustrating (if probably unavoidable) that I have to start from zero with this process every time I start a new job. That would be fine if the process wasn’t almost universally slow, bureaucratic, and seemingly designed to minimize the help provided to employees. It’s also frustrating to have to immediately expend my non-existent social capital at a new organisation in being firm on this, though I’ve decided that it’s worth doing so for the sake of my health. A colleague and I just went through the process at the same time; they took pains to be nice and pleasant throughout, while I made sure to tactfully imply that a refusal would not likely be the end of this, which was stressful in itself for me to do. My accommodation was approved; theirs was refused. We shouldn’t have to deploy a specific manner or tactic in order to get access to something that supports our health.

  83. NurseThis*

    A company I worked for saw chairs as their hill to die on. Managers got fitted with ergonomic custom chairs. Associates got crap left over from the 1970s. They were terrified a non-manager would weasel their way to a better chair and then “everyone would want one”. I knew people who took a management job they didn’t want to get the chair.

    I found this amazing for a billion dollar company. But chair paranoia was big.

  84. rebelwithmouseyhair*

    I think this warrants a name and shame so we can all write in to OP’s HR and just inundate their email till they see sense.

  85. DJ*

    Ridiculous.
    All desks and chairs should be ergonomic which would cut down on a lot of requests.
    Ditto with good working conditions ie flexible hours, control over environment, control over how one does one’s work so can alternate sitting and standing!
    LW may still have needed to have made the request but less requests from others for HR to organise and track.
    Also the issue of involving 3rd parties one can’t liaise with directly.
    Also employers despite their all must RTO are still happy to keep hot desking for all though

  86. Bill and Heather's Excellent Adventure*

    Oh noooo! Is there a Worst HR of the Year competition because I feel this would be a contender!

    Please contact an employment lawyer and start looking for a new job because it sounds like now the HR person who implemented your accommodation has left, the rest of HR (and management?) have reverted to “this isn’t necessary”.

  87. GingerCat*

    OMG. Is the third-party vendor Broadspire? They were the worst when I was going through the initial process for my reasonable accommodation at my university employer. It took SIX MONTHS for them to “approve” accommodations for my very well-documented disability (which were no problem at all to implement at my previous university employer). Turns out the magic words to HR were, “It seems like it is time for me to loop in an attorney.” Accommodations were approved the next day. OP, don’t be afraid to consult an attorney. It doesn’t have to mean you’re going to sue. An attorney can help you cut through the nonsense and get the accommodations you are legally entitled to.

  88. KrZ*

    This happened to me years ago. I needed lumbar support. Denied. Ended up injured on the job simply by sitting in a bad chair for a few hours (data entry) then opening a heavy file cabinet drawer. To the doctor I go, then to physical therapy and time off to recover. Because it happened on the job, the company was hit directly to cover expenses. Cost them more for my ongoing PT than the chair would have. When I returned to the office, the chair I previously requested was procured immediately.

  89. directions to narnia*

    Where’s your boss in all this? Because this definitely needs your boss’s involvement and maybe boss’s boss too.

    Someone is in charge of HR and this needs to be escalated because someone in HR is on a power trip here, and your boss should be shielding you from it.

  90. Ranibow Sprimklepants*

    This whole ordeal reminds me of the time I had a coworker who requested a $25 ergonomic mouse to help with her carpal tunnel. My manager asked HR for the funds, they hemmed and hawed and my manager said “I just think we’re being penny wise/pound foolish about this because she’s a vital employee,” to which the HR rep said “Are you calling me stupid?!?” Eventually my manager bought the mouse with her own money because she wanted to protect both coworker’s health and their morale. I don’t know if coworker ever knew all the nonsense.

  91. CLC*

    My my last office went to hot desking five years ago it was so badly planned (basically not thought through at all) and an absolute nightmare with stuff like this. Quite a few people in my department had accommodations for a specific type of chair, but it was basically all on them to make sure no one else sat it in or it didn’t get misplaced, and having an accommodation for a specific chair didn’t mean you had a specific desk. The chairs were constantly getting moved around, people would park them for the night in random places, etc. It made no sense. Also, years ago I worked at this company that was super cheap and we had these horrible chairs. I was only in my 20s and super fit at the time but for whatever reason these cheap chairs killed my back. One day I couldn’t take it anymore and stood up and went and got a chair from the conference room. I just needed something to sit on that wasn’t causing me pain so I could finish my work for the day and didn’t think much of it. A few minutes later I got a call from the office manager— apparently the *CEO* had seen me and asked her why I was sitting in one of the “good” chairs. I explained it to her and she said I had to put it back. I said ok can I order a new chair then? And she was like no we don’t do that here. So I just suffered until I quit that crappy job went to grad school.

  92. olevia*

    Oh, I wish I had seen the original post. My ergonomic chair took nearly a YEAR to procure. I had the proper paperwork in proper order, submitted correctly. Public employer, one option for HR staff only. I was in HR office almost every week for a year. HR just threw up his hands, over and over again. Without that accomodation, I literally could not staff one of the two stations I was assigned to. I finally had to refuse to work at that desk, which I assure did not move the needle one bit. My union was originally not terribly helpful because I could work at that other desk – but my extensive experience at the questions brought to my primary desk was largely wasted at the other desk.

    Finally, one of the union grievance officers said something, the library director inquired – and gee guess what – the order had been lost by our facilities manager (My manager was useless in this, if it isn’t crystal clear). The chair finally appeared. This was also not a solid gold chair, but a $250 chair from Office Depot.

    OP, I really do feel your pain.

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