I can’t advocate for myself without getting emotional

by Alison Green on November 26, 2024

A reader writes:

I can’t advocate for myself without getting emotional.

Once I tried to negotiate a medical bill down using advice from many articles online and couldn’t get through the conversation without crying. It wasn’t that I didn’t have money to pay the bill; it was the anger and frustration and feeling of powerlessness of expecting to pay $200 and being charged $1,500.

Today I tried to negotiate my salary for the first time. I had it all planned out in my head what I wanted to say, but as soon as I started talking my voice was wavering. I wanted to say, “I think I’m worth more than the bottom of the salary band for my promotion, here are some examples, the number I’m hoping for is $X.”

Instead the HR person opened the conversation with a detailed overview of how salaries are set at my company. It was actually very helpful, but I felt like the subtext was “don’t be disappointed if we say no because we probably will.” I asked some follow-ups and then the HR person said she can’t go back to the department VPs with “Jane is kind of unhappy with her raise” and that I needed to write down my ask and send it to her and we’ll go from there.

Which is fine! I can do that, it’s what I wanted to do from the beginning. And she was incredibly kind about me crying during our whole conversation. But I still feel so frustrated by the process and with myself for not being able to have this normal work conversation as a seasoned professional in my 30s. I feel so immature. I also feel like I never want to negotiate a raise ever again because the few thousand dollars a year I want to ask for is not worth the emotional energy, stress, and embarrassment this has caused me.

How do I get past this and keep advocating for myself in the future?

I wrote back and asked: “What’s going on in your head when you feel yourself getting emotional? Are you expecting to be turned down and you’re upset/angry about that in advance? Do you find it scary to ask for something you want because you’re worried other people won’t agree you deserve it? What are the underlying emotions that are making it such an intense experience? Also, do you find this happens with any other category of conversation, or is it pretty much always when advocating for yourself?”

It’s mostly an advocating for myself/being assertive thing. I hate rocking the boat. With negotiating in general, I think I get upset and stressed preemptively because I expect the conversation to be … not quite adversarial, but whatever the polite business version of that is. And then I assume I’ll end up looking silly and unreasonable.

For more context on the specific incident I wrote in about, I’m mad at myself for not negotiating when I accepted my initial offer several years ago. At the time I thought it was a generous offer above the company-wide salary band for my level, if slightly lower than the number I initially named. A few days after I joined the company, I learned the salary bands had all increased at some point during the month I was interviewing and I had assessed the offer based on the old information.

This has been eating at me ever since. I feel like a chump for not even asking again if there was wiggle room when we got to the offer stage. Negotiating my promotion felt like the time to make up for it, even while I assumed the answer was no.

(The medical bill example is similar — like I should have known the hospital would overcharge and I was an idiot for not asking the price in advance.)

The thing is, a senior leader on my team (someone with sway over raises and promotions) encouraged me to negotiate. She said it’s probable they could come up, and even if they can’t now they still want to know what I think my work is worth. It should not have been scary. But negotiations get to me! I’m trapped in a doom-loop thought spiral before I even open my mouth.

This might not be where you expected this answer to go, but I am a big, big believer that when your thought patterns on something consistently don’t line up with the reality of the situation, therapy is what will help you fix it.

Here’s what I see in your letter: You believe that advocating for yourself, even in routine and expected ways, will be A Big Deal — that you’ll seem unreasonable or aggressive, and that the act of asking for something you want is an almost inherently hostile move (even knowing, as I’m sure you do, that other people have salary negotiations all the time — so on some level you know it’s not a huge deal, but your brain is still wired to react as if yours will be). You also call yourself as a “chump” for not knowing you had outdated salary info a couple of years ago, when that’s not a normal thing to be expected to realize. Feeling like a chump — or like an idiot for not knowing the hospital would overcharge you — is a pretty adversarial framework to be defaulting to.

That thinking doesn’t reflect the reality of how this stuff works! When that’s the case, it’s nearly always rooted in lessons you learned growing up, lessons that probably made sense for your circumstances at the time but aren’t serving you well as an adult who’s not operating in those same circumstances now.

For example … did you grow up in a family where people weren’t allowed to express their needs, or where only some people were allowed to do that and you weren’t? Or where your needs often weren’t met, and it was a big deal to try to claim things you needed? Or in a family where everything was high-conflict, so when you imagine advocating for yourself, the conversation your brain pictures is dramatic and high-conflict because that’s what was modeled for you early on?

Very often, when your reactions don’t seem warranted by your current situation, it will turn out there there were circumstances in your past where that reaction did make sense.

Therapy can help you unravel that, drain some of those early lessons of their power, and then help you re-wire your brain so it responds in a way that better serves you now.

That’s a long-term answer to the problem, but I strongly believe it’s what will fix this at its root, and I bet it would increase your quality of life in other ways too.

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{ 101 comments }

{ 101 comments… read them below }

  1. Angstrom*

    “It’s ok to ask for what you want.” Such a simple idea, and so hard for so many of us.

    Keep working on it, OP. It can make your life better in so many ways.

    1. Ganymede II*

      I grew up in a culture where “asking for what you want” meant “you are so selfish to not be satisfied with what is provided to you” and it is so hard to unlearn.

      1. Angstrom*

        Yes! It’s presented as a binary: if you’re not a meek doormat, you’re rude/greedy/selfish/arrogent/etc. Being calm, polite, and assertive is unknown territory.

      2. A Simple Narwhal*

        …”asking for what you want” meant “you are so selfish to not be satisfied with what is provided to you”

        Oof that really neatly sums up a thought process I struggle with.

        It is so hard to unlearn that, I still feel like I’m ungrateful sometimes if I want to express I’m not 100% happy with something. Because I have it so good, I feel like I don’t deserve to ask for more. Even dumb things like “my husband does so much and is so wonderful, I shouldn’t bring up something stupid like asking him to hang up wet hand towels rather than leave them on the counter, it’s not that big a deal and I can live with it”. (Note: this is all internal and my husband actively asks me to not just swallow these things.)

        I’m working on it, but it’s hard!

    2. AFac*

      I run into the scenario that unless everyone in the meeting is 100% supportive and fully convinced I am right, I often feel like my request is doomed and I am an embarrassing failure who shouldn’t have dared make the request. Sometimes any concern or pushback during the process feels like a judgement on me as a person, even if my request is ultimately granted. It sounds like the OP feels like this too as a result of the conversation about pay bands and the feeling like they were being prepared for disappointment.

      The reality usually is that there’s always some nuance to decisions that may or may not be under my control. My request may have been justified and I still may not get what I want. I’m still learning to take my wins when I get them without nitpicking my performance.

    3. Aggretsuko*

      Look up “ask vs. guess” culture. Asking for what you want is not socially acceptable everywhere, unfortunately.

  2. bamcheeks*

    LW, I really recommend Ken and Kate Back’s Assertiveness At Work. They have a lot of really straightforward techniques for reframing conflicts away from “you want X, I want Y, one of us must lose” to “we both want Y, we have slightly differing needs, how do we bring them into alignment?” It’s very much focussed on both believing you have a right to assert your needs, and doing it in such a way that you understand and respect the other party’s needs too. And it’s a very well-written and easy book to read, too!

  3. Kay*

    I agree with therapy, and if you can’t do that right away – do you have anyone you can role play these scenarios with? Even perhaps just rehearse them out loud by yourself, covering all the different scenarios you can think of on how the situation could go, might help a bit?

    1. SarahKay*

      Strongly seconding the ‘rehearse them out loud’. Saying something out loud for the first time can be really, unexpectedly, tough.
      No matter how much you’ve *thought* sentences or phrases, somehow actually using your voice and making it audible can be really, really emotional. Practicing saying the thing aloud gradually removes the emotion from it.

      (As a side note, at least for me, I’ve found that embarrassing memories will lose a lot of their sting if I can bring myself to describe what happened aloud. Doesn’t need anyone else present, it’s just the act of voicing it aloud that works for me.)

      1. Hlao-roo*

        This is so true! I practice out loud by myself and even when I have a script that I think sounds cool and calm in my head, a lot of emotions usually come out when I say the words out loud for the first time. I start with saying things out loud to an empty room, and I usually have to run through a script about 5 times to work out the wavery voice, stumbling over words, and other emotional seep-through. Then I say the script once or twice in front of a mirror (if the conversation is going to take place in person or by videocall) to check that my face isn’t doing anything weird.

    2. Vipsania Agrippina*

      The advice of saying out loud what you want to say in advace, in the way you want to say it is a very usedul one.

      The first times it will feel awkward, and you possibly will stumble over your words, and you might sound insecure. But after trying a few times, thing will go smoother and you will sound more assertive. (Ok, at least this is how it is for me).

    3. HannahS*

      I totally agree with this! I have a lot of hard conversations at work and there are some things that help me:

      1. Accept that it’s hard. Lots of things that should be easy (asking for help, apologizing, delivering bad news, setting boundaries, asking for a raise, telling someone to stop sexually harassing you) are in fact hard, but all of those things are communication SKILLS which means that you can get better by practicing. It is TOTALLY NORMAL to not be good at it, and to have the first time go badly.

      2. Practice OUT LOUD. You can worry all you want and practice in your head, but actually SAY it out loud.

      3. Actually, before you practice out loud, write a script and read it! Out loud! Alone! Then with other people! It will feel mortifying, but it’s better to get the worbles out alone with the mirror, and then with a friend, before doing it for real in person.

      1. Hey, I'm Wohrking Heah!*

        Yes, and start advocating for yourself with low stakes things with trusted people. Deciding between 2 movies that you both want to see with your friend? Name your first choice and don’t apologize. You’ll get there!

        1. MigraineMonth*

          This is similar to my “homework exercises” when I was in cognitive behavioral therapy. I wanted to reapply to grad schools, but I was so embarrassed about being rejected the first time that I could not bring myself to bother my professors by asking them to send letters of recommendation again. After a couple of weeks of doing “assertiveness exercises” like asking a grocer if they had any fresher artichokes in the back and asking strangers for directions to the library, it didn’t seem like such a big deal anymore to ask for the recommendation.

      2. Reluctant Mezzo*

        Yes, double that on the out loud. You can also yell or scream one version just to get the emotions out, and then you can go on to sound calmer.

    4. Ellis Bell*

      See I think these are not daily, or monthly conversations that people have, so I think Rehearsals are key. Even if you’re great at asking for what you want in other situations, a lot of people don’t come from backgrounds where you can negotiate your pay, and that kind of haunts you when you never heard any of those conversations growing up but instead heard “Company pays X an hour” from people around you. So, my process when first dipping my toe on was 1)Write it down; consider whether you need to change anything. If it’s great, and it’s appropriate can you just email this? 2) Say it out loud in the mirror. 3) Say it out loud with someone you know well.

    5. GoryDetails*

      I wish I’d had the advice about rehearsals/role-play back in the day. I had a similar problem to the letter writer – I’m an “easy cry” person, especially under stress, and had a reluctance to seem even remotely adversarial (even when I was my worst adversary!).

      I eventually learned to just keep going through the tears; assuming nobody rushed to comfort me, Mom-style, the tears would stop on their own, and I could get to the point. But the concept of finding solid scripts for what I wanted to convey and then *practicing* them beforehand would have been sooo helpful. (Therapy might, also, but that wasn’t something that came to mind for what I thought of as simple workplace stress back in the ’70s.)

  4. Mary*

    I am an angry cryer and I don’t like that about myself, but I have learned that it’s just part of how I experience being angry. However, it isn’t always a good or useful thing when I am trying to communicate. I feel for the letter writer, and I hope that whatever they choose to do they can find a way to advocate for themselves and feel at peace about it.

    1. Slow Gin Lizz*

      Same, and my default when I’m experiencing overwhelming emotions used to always be that I would cry. I haaaaaaated it. People would give me all kinds of ways to avoid crying but none of them worked. I tried therapy too, but the thing that really did help me was anti-anxiety meds. I still sometimes cry when experiencing strong emotions (and still *always* at funerals) but there’s something about my individual chemical makeup that the meds helped a LOT. I didn’t even really notice how much the meds helped until I stopped taking them briefly and went back to my old baseline crying level. I did not enjoy that time at all.

      I have since read that because women have smaller tear ducts (or something to do with our physical biology) we tend to cry more easily than men. I’m sure hormones have a lot to do with it too, but the fact that our physicality makes us more prone to tears vindicated me to a huge degree.

      1. CV*

        I think there’s a social training component to women crying when angry vs. what people reared as men do, which is blame others and/or get violent (or WANT to get violent, but don’t.)

        I’ll leave it to the anthropologists to figure out why. I expect there’s research out there.

        1. Chirpy*

          I do think that it’s largely that boys are conditioned very early on to not cry or show “softer” emotions. Women are allowed to show every emotion except anger – but are constantly thwarted in getting their needs met/not believed/not taken seriously. And it’s quite frustrating for both.

          1. Aerin*

            I remember on my first day of PHP in group therapy, someone made the point that women are raised to express anger as sadness and men are raised to express sadness as anger. The women in the group all nodded emphatically while the men were completely floored.

            1. Anon in Aotearoa*

              Oh, wow. That’s such a perfect encapsulation of it. That’s going to sit in my head for days – thank you!

      2. goth associate*

        Yet another angry/frustrated crier here & man do I wish meds had done anything for my non-sad crying response bc WHOOF do I ever hate it, like I particularly dislike when someone thinks I’m doing it on purpose to get sympathy (quite often I am literally saying “please ignore that I am crying, it’s an involuntary reaction, I promise I’m not doing it on purpose.”) I swear to you that if I could NOT be crying right now I would! I had a dreamy 2 weeks when I first started Zoloft where I could not force any sort of emotion & crying was impossible, & while it’s not sustainable sometimes I wish I could just like…have that feeling on tap for when I have to have meetings like the OP did here, just the ability to detach myself from the situation. (Unfortunately therapy has helped a bit but I don’t think anything will fix it for me, it’s just annoyingly how I am, but it’s actually a relief to see so many other people have the same problem lol)

      3. Aerin*

        Yup, I’ve always been a crier, and any kind of in-person conflict would throw my body into fight-or-flight mode. Therapy helped a little, but gabapentin helped a lot.

    2. CR*

      I am also an angry/frustrated crier and it’s SO annoying, especially at work. When my manager gave me feedback I thought was unfair I got so emotional trying to defend myself!

    3. Yoyoyo*

      I cry when I’m angry too and at one time actually said to a doctor I was working with, “I need you to know that I am crying because I am so frustrated with you, not because you hurt my feelings.” I just couldn’t take the idea of them thinking they wounded me on top of everything else!

      Note: we had a relationship marked by direct communication and mutual respect, which is why I felt okay saying that part out loud.

      1. Anonymous today*

        Yes, this is reminding me of when my former chair told me that if I couldn’t make it into work because of a snowstorm making the roads hazardous (as had happened two weeks prior to this conversation), I couldn’t use a sick day, I had to use leave without pay. (This was after I also made videos to share with my students in place of lecture, and emailed back and forth with them, too. This was pre-covid, so it was more unusual to think to do that–maybe that was part of it?)

        I started to cry and he was like, I don’t want you to feel sad. And I wanted to scream, I’m not sad, I’m angry!!!

        (My current chair told me that if I can’t come in due to inclement weather but I do any university work at home that day, I should just be paid like usual, without burning a sick day. Reasonable. Kind. I love her.)

        1. allathian*

          Oof this is tough. I used to be a lot like this myself, but at some point in my mid-40s it was like a switch flipped in my head and I quit defaulting to tears when I got angry. That said, I don’t cry very often, and so far I’ve never cried at a funeral as an adult.

          All of my relatives (grandparents and a couple uncles, some cousins of my parents) whose funerals I’ve attended were sick enough when they died that they were better off dead.

          My maternal grandpa died when I was 5, and for as long as I’d been alive he was a very sick man. I have no memories of him other than him lying on the couch yelling at us grandkids to be quiet the Christmas I was 4. He was a distant, scary figure.

          I simply couldn’t mourn their loss, doing so would’ve felt selfish. My paternal grandma who’s the grandparent I always felt closest to had suffered from dementia for several years before she passed, and I’d mourned the loss of her personality for quite some time. Her actual death was a relief and I didn’t even feel particularly guilty for feeling that way.

          That said, whenever I do cry, maybe once or twice a year, I’m pretty much without exception either angry or frustrated, or both. I very rarely cry when I watch a movie or TV show, but books can provoke tears of sadness from me.

          Maybe it’s because my baseline emotional state is somewhere on the melancholy end of the spectrum, but sadness is the emotion that I’m the least aware of experiencing. I’m much more likely to notice that I’m feeling happy, angry, frustrated, joyful, aggressive, scared, envious, or simply very “meh” than sad.

          1. allathian*

            I did cry at my maternal grandpa’s funeral, the photos prove it. I was 17 when my paternal grandpa died after spending months in the hospital with pneumonia. When we visited his bedside, he said several times that he wished the Good Lord would just take him away already, and he hadn’t been a particularly religious man. I guess I mourned by trying to support my grandma who was understandably devastated. My maternal grandma died when I was 24 and studying in France. I couldn’t afford to fly home for the funeral, but I did go to the nearest church to light a candle for her because she was religious even if I’m not.

          2. Been There*

            I’m the opposite, cry at every funeral, even when it’s a family member I didn’t know very well. I hate it.

            1. Paint N Drip*

              Grief of any flavor (yours, mine, media character..) makes me cry so immediately lol I just have accepted my soft soft heart now. My work occasionally involves death and some people really do NOT like when I show emotion about THEIR loss, oops

    4. Casey*

      How do you handle this at work? I am also an angry crier and I work in a pretty high stress/high consequence environment, so I really struggle to communicate “this mistake could have killed people and I’m really frustrated that you’re brushing me off/trying to pretend it was no big deal” without getting teary or shaky voiced. Any tips sooo welcomed!

      1. Reluctant Mezzo*

        Again, rehearse one version where you use all the feels and shouts. Then keep rehearsing till you can sound calmer.

    5. Princess Sparklepony*

      Although I think in negotiating with the hospital, it could be useful. Makes them take pity on you!

      Although last time I had to negotiate a hospital bill, I told them I wanted the deal insurance companies get. They said – you don’t have insurance. I said – that’s why I need their prices! Eventually, they saw my point. Get paid some or get paid none…

  5. Aunt Vixen*

    Is there any percentage in imagining you’re advocating for someone else? I’ve found myself being much firmer in situations where I’ve been saying “I think you should be paying [that other person] more than you’re paying them” than I would ever feel comfortable being if I were saying “I think you should be paying me more.”

  6. Lark*

    Removed because I don’t want to recommend specific drugs here, but you’re welcome to repost it without that! – Alison

  7. Jojo*

    Woof. LW I really feel for you. I’m like this as well, and it’s so frustrating. I think Alison’s advice, as usual, is very good. I hope you can work on this and feel better about asking for what you need.

  8. dfrax*

    I would highly recommend a basic negotiating course as well. Karass is widely known for doing good ones, or ISM, APICS, or Manufacturer’s Alliance type organizations. This will help you see that much of negotiating is about perspective and give you practice. Also books like Never Split the Difference.

  9. Harper the Other One*

    I second Allison’s compassionate advice for therapy! I have finally had the opportunity to work with a therapist this year, and even though I considered myself a fairly assertive person, I realized how much I am giving way for others and how rarely I truly advocate for my needs. It has helped me tremendously.

  10. tenor eleven*

    Emotions present themselves in unexpected ways, and that’s OK. It’s normal. Something that has served me well is to concentrate on the feelings my body has when I experience intense emotion: heart pounding, face flushing, etc. It gives me just enough distance to observe my emotions without being swept up by them. (Sometimes. I fall down a lot. It takes a lot of time.)

    Alison’s advice is good, and be gentle with yourself as you navigate this path.

  11. John*

    It helps if you think of it like a game.

    Know that your employer is trying to get away with paying each of you the very least they can. (That can combat your belief that you are unnecessarily rocking the boat.)

    Got into it expecting them to push back on you and explain away every valid point. When you start expecting them to stonewall you, it removes emotion.

    1. bamcheeks*

      I’m the opposite— I find it much easier if I *don’t* think of it as antagonistic and frame it as a problem we are trying to solve together.

    2. JSPA*

      they’re also trying to hold onto you, and not be faced with the disruption of finding and training someone new. So they do want to pay you the minimum it’ll take to keep you; if that’s more than your current salary, it IS in their interest to try to meet that new minimum.

  12. Eldritch Office Worker*

    The other thing I would say OP is that you are probably not the only person who has cried in HR’s office while talking about money. We try to decouple emotions and professionalism as a society, but it’s so normal for people to get worked up when they’re asking about something that impacts their life so much.

    That’s not to say it isn’t something to work on and get help with, but I promise this wasn’t a huge deal.

    1. ferrina*

      Seconding this- OP, you definitely aren’t the first person to cry in HR’s office while trying to negotiate. Far from it.

    2. Highlighter Cat*

      Agreed sounds like the HR person handled it without a hitch and have you information that you can use in your letter

  13. angry crier*

    Wow, I can relate to so much of this letter, right down to berating myself for being a “chump” for not standing up for myself earlier. Angry, frustrated tears, too. And yes, the origin was family stuff, and therapy has helped a lot. Will upvote imagining advocating for someone else. Hang in there, it takes time and focus, but those old patterns can be reset.

    1. K Smith*

      Same, LW, same.

      The therapy suggestion is a good one. I too have some of the same behaviours and responses that the LW detailed. It took me a long time to realize that some of these traits were learned in childhood – I grew up in a household where simple requests could be met with outsized parental anger.

      I’ve learned some techniques that can help me advocate for myself, like writing out a literal script for stressful situations like salary negotiations, and then practicing that script out loud, repeatedly (I find that if I just rehearse them in my head without writing it down and saying it out loud, I’m more likely to forget what I want to say and get emotional). Or when feasible I’ll have these conversations via email, where I can carefully craft my message and I don’t have to worry about getting flustered.

      BUT, I also have learned that it’s OK to acknowledge that I still absolutely hate being in stressful situations like salary negotiations. So I carefully pick my battles. When starting my current job, I knew that the salary band could theoretically go about 5k higher if I were to negotiate. At the time I was taking this new job, though, I just wasn’t in the right headspace to face job negotiations. So I just let it go. Which I acknowledge absolutely is not possible for many people – I was in a privileged position financially to make that decision. But it was the right decision for me at the time, in that it didn’t add more stress to an already stressful situation. Though I’ve since gotten a decent raise, which I successfully asked for via email :)

      Mostly, I just want to express empathy for the OP – constantly catastrophizing and worrying that people are going to respond to your (very reasonable!) requests with outsized negative reactions is a rough way to go through life. This internet stranger wishes you well.

  14. Nonsense*

    Cliche as it is, this is one of those abilities that gets easier the more you do it. I’m not usually an emotional person – my AuDHD went for monotone instead of passion – but I have found that when I’m nervous about something, I start to get teary and choked up. And it makes sense to be nervous about a big hospital bill, or asking for a raise! I was lucky enough to have friends who were willing to act out different scenarios so we could all gain some practice, and then I took two public speaking courses in college that helped as well.

    Keep your breathing as even and deep as possible. Expand the sternum, not raise your shoulders when you breathe in.

    Take a second to pause if you feel yourself getting choked up, breathe deep, and then continue. Clear your throat if you have to, but I’ve found you can only get away with once or twice in a conversation.

    Let yourself take a few longer blinks if you get teary. Clears the tears but it’s not immediately noticeable.

    Allow yourself to be nervous, but don’t let that be the end of your mental statement. Eg “I’m nervous about asking for this raise. I am going to ask anyway because I know I’m worth the money for X, Y, and Z reasons.” Sometimes acknowledging the emotion makes it less intense.

    Good luck!

    1. Meg*

      Yes! I worked in retail for a long time, and I realized that it really helped me in regards to calling and asking for stuff (usually between two part of the business), so when I had to do it for myself, it was easier.

    2. Katie from Scotland*

      I’ve found the same – that learning how to ‘not cry’ during stressful / anxiety-inducing conversations (especially around asking for money!) is about doing it and realising that the world did not crumble and the person didn’t hate you and you may or may not have got what you wanted but now at least you know you tried.
      For me it was almost like exposure therapy – each time I “did the thing” it was a little less scary the next time, and now I might still feel sweaty and hesitant, but I’m no longer having to hold back tears or disguise a lump in my throat.

  15. Meg*

    For me (being Midwestern, and very anti-adversarial), changing my thinking really helped. It is literally a part of these peoples jobs to help you/communicate with you. Nothing you say will be out of left field for them. Calling a billing department to talk about a bill (calmly) is 1000000% normal. Talking to HR about a raise is 100000% normal. You’re not being mean or rude by doing so. Its their job!

    Its scary to advocate for yourself, but literally, nobody else is going to step up to help you but you.

  16. Amanda*

    This is 100% me. Here are some things that have helped me. Picking a strategic time for the meeting… mornings aren’t good for me so I tend to have more difficult convos in the afternoon. Writing down talking points and bring them with me. When I feel like I am going to cry I pinch the skin on one of my fingers and that seems to distract me enough to usually stop/prevent the crying. Find a few people that you can practice conversations with. It helps to take away the nerves and they can help you strengthen your agruments.

  17. Shynosaur*

    I absolutely could have written this letter myself! I literally had the same thought process of “what a chump I was not to ask more about medical billing” once. This kind of automatic thought process is hard to explain to people who don’t have it. Alison’s advice is all completely solid, especially re: therapy, and all I would add is look into “rejection sensitive dysphoria,” because I don’t think a lot of people know about it and if you have that (I do and your case sounds so much like something I’d write), knowing about it can unlock a lot of the puzzle. Wishing you the best of luck with yourself!

    1. Nosy*

      I am just learning about RSD and it strikes such a chord with me. I grew up in an environment where asking for a cup of water was met with, “Water is for washing down food. Is it dinner time? No, you idiot. You’ll get water at dinner”. After 18 years of that, rejection of even the most minor thing leads to shame spirals. I’m trying to learn how to unravel that bit by bit.

      1. Chirpy*

        Same, only mine was “everyone else deserves help, but you’re smart, why can’t you figure it out yourself?” (always followed by “why didn’t you ask for help” after the situation finally boiled over and affected someone else). I absolutely could have written this letter. Good luck, OP, I feel for you.

  18. Insert Pun Here*

    I know adopting this mindset is easier said than done but: even if they do think you’re silly (they probably don’t, but if they do), so what? I mean, there are people in the workplace peeing in sinks (okay maybe just that one guy) and pushing their coworkers into traffic. “Silly” is fine!!

    On a more serious note, I negotiate with people all the time (not about employment/salary) and often have to tell them that I can’t do/give what they want. Sometimes the “no” is for financial reasons and sometimes it’s for “you probably don’t realize this but you’re asking me to break the law and/or break the laws of physics with this” reasons. The only time I think negatively of those people is the (rare!) request that is so blindingly self-absorbed that it amounts to the professional equivalent of “stop the world from turning so I can get what I want.”

  19. different seudonym*

    I agree that your mental framing does not reflect the reality! My only comment–and it’s an add-on to the original advice, not a disagreement–is that the shame people feel about self-advocacy doesn’t only come from family. It can be enforced by a whole cultural surround, as someone said above me, and/or it can be imposed by…workplaces themselves!

    Or, actually, I have a second comment…one of the reasons shame can get me, personally, so wound up is that it feels like self-control, or the effort to achieve self-control. It feels like I’m doing something! Like you trying not to cry: it seems like you’re working hard at that, pouring effort into it. But it’s just not the most useful thing to work on. Shame misdirects people from system to self. That’s why it’s repressive. That’s why it’s a tool of the system.

  20. BellaStella*

    Dear OP,
    I am a very emotional person – when upset, frustrated (relates to anger), advocating for myself, dealing with conflict etc. For me, I see a therapist monthly who helps me work on scripts on how to role play difficult situations. Also, I use yoga and grounding and also take valerian root, they all help me, plus getting enough sleep the night before is helpful. Practice these convos with a friend to get around the emotions, if you can. Also, before a convo like this, if you can go for a walk outside for 15 min to clear your head. Best of luck to you in the future!

  21. long time/first time*

    I so so feel for this letter writer and want to cosign Allison’s response. I feel like I could have ghost-written this letter for how much it hits. I’m a long-time lurker, rarely comment, but want LW to know they’re not alone in this experience, and the long-term solution Allison suggests really can help. Sending good thoughts.

  22. beepboop*

    What Alison said! I really related to what you said, OP, about how you worry about seeming unreasonable when you advocate for yourself. I see a lot of my own thought patterns in what you wrote and therapy is what has helped me a lot with re-working those patterns. I’m by no means “cured” and still definitely struggle to ask for things I need, but it’s a lot easier than it used to be. Therapy is great!

  23. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

    I’m also a frustration crier. When I don’t feel in control of a situation it can break out. Throughout growing up I was told that my emotions were wrong and ‘big girls don’t cry’ and this was back in the day when autism wasn’t a diagnosis you could get. So I learnt to mask. But for some reason frustration or injustice breaks right past all of that training.

    Here’s some things that helped me:

    1. Getting on medication that helps the mind maintain a relatively even keel and even more important the diagnosis and therapy to understand that what I’d been doing to cope wasn’t actually right for me.

    2. Improv/public speaking/stand up comedy training etc. Or alternatively prepare a speech on something you like and give that speech to someone. With practise comes comfort.

    3. Getting to be over 40 and not giving a toss about what people think anymore. Granted, this one is not one you can do training courses on.. :)

    4. Tongue on the roof of the mouth and press down hard. Breathe evenly. Can sometimes stop me.

    5. Giving myself permission to cry for a bit if I want to. The problem with all the ‘ways to stop crying when frustrated’ things was I took it a little too far and practically exploded one day when everything had bottled up. I allow myself tears, then a hot drink, but no ‘I’m so weak and useless’ talk or anything that sends into a spiral. Spirals are where the real crying jags come from.

    and 6. This one is a bit weird but – having something to switch the mind onto really helps me. I wear a fidget ring that means I can spin that round and round for a few seconds (or I fold origami stars) when I need to focus the mind back onto the situation.

    And know this – it WILL get better.

    1. allathian*

      I have personal experience of the “big girls don’t cry” thinking in the UK. I was 12 when we moved there for my parents’ jobs, and at first my English was very limited (I estimate that my vocabulary was less than 500 words), so I often cried out of frustration at school simply because I didn’t understand what was going on. I got away with it because I was a foreigner, but when I realized that everyone, teachers and classmates, were willing to bend over backwards to get me to stop crying, I started to cry more or less consciously to manipulate people, so when I was 12 I learned to start crying more or less at will.

      I stopped crying at the drop of a hat when I’d learned enough English that I was no longer frustrated all the time. I got an A+ in the exam at the end of the year and an A on the report, my vocabulary was at least as large as that of my classmates, possibly larger. I read at least 3 books a week and I visited the school library at least once a week and we were allowed to borrow 3 books at a time. By the time we left, I was reading the books they’d set for the 6th formers, so I was reading way above my grade level. I’d also adapted to the culture somewhat.

      When we returned to Finland, I cried exactly once at school. It wasn’t an effective strategy to get what I wanted and I got ridiculed by both the kids and the teacher who saw it happening. I understand why my teenage classmates thought my crying was worth making fun of, but the teacher really should’ve known better.

  24. dulcinea47*

    Agree with the recommendation of therapy, but also: rehearse these things out loud. Don’t just think of what you want to say, say it. Say it to yourself, to your partner, to your pet, to an empty room, over and over until you stop reacting so strongly. (and imagine what the response will be- realistically, it’s not the hostile response your brain fears.) It’ll never get easy but it does get a lot better.

  25. Perihelion*

    I think Alison’s response is great, but I want to add one more thing. I tend to have similar reactions to some types of conversations, and it isn’t really linked to a childhood thing—I had great parents, my needs were met, etc. I’ve pretty much come to the conclusion that it’s a brain chemistry quirk or something. I’ve still found therapy quite helpful for making it easier! So even if that part doesn’t ring true to you, it might still be worth trying to find a therapist.

    And sympathy for the crying about hospital bills thing. I was recently dealing with an error by an insurance company that they just wouldn’t acknowledge, and although I knew the next steps to take and that it would probably fix the problem (and I was right), it was still so frustrating and demoralizing that I was in tears the moment I hung up the phone. Money is stressful, health is stressful, feeling powerless is stressful, and the combination is just awful.

  26. Diomedea Exulans*

    It’s not just the family. For example, I grew up in a very supportive family, but right from kindergarten up until university, I was constantly being told by teachers that I wouldn’t amount to anything, that I will never have a career or normal human relationships, I should just shut up and not talk because I’m weird. My classmates often walked out of the classroom when I wanted to talk to them. Basically, my needs were never met and the way I was treated in my family was drastically different from how I was treated in the outside world. I still have the issue of either not advocating for myself or being far too assertive in doing so.

    1. BellaStella*

      I am so sorry you experienced this cruelty from those you mentioned. I am glad your family was good to you!

  27. Saturday*

    I don’t know if this is helpful, but I was struck by how emotionally charged this language is, “I think I’m worth more than the bottom of the salary band.”

    Does if feel like your worth as a person is tied up in this? Because it’s not, and it might help to remind yourself of that.

  28. MHG*

    I completely agree with what Allison has to say, as therapy has helped me just handle all kinds of emotional things better. In the short time, any time I know I have something to say that could bring up emotions when I don’t want them, I practice it. I write it down and say it again and again. That means I might cry a bunch during practice, but I find that practicing kind of takes some power out of the words.

  29. NotBatman*

    With regard to the hospital bill thing — it is often literally impossible to get that information up front in the U.S. I’ve asked doctors outright “how much will it cost to for this procedure?” and gotten back “well it depends on a variety of factors, and of course it will cost more or less depending on how much dye we end up needing…” When I try to get clarification, even a ballpark estimate, I’ve had doctors refuse to tell me and/or claim that it’s unknowable.

    I mention this because OP’s assertion that “I should have known the hospital would overcharge and I was an idiot for not asking the price in advance” — that’s false. You’re a normal human for not asking, you likely couldn’t have gotten that information if you had asked, and assuming “overcharged” would mean “$300 for a $200 procedure” instead of five times that amount is just a sign that you’re a basically decent human who expects insurance companies to act basically decent as well.

    1. NoSurprises*

      There is regulation in the works that would require specific estimates for services and gives patients the right to dispute the charges if they are more than $400 more than expected. For people without health insurance or self paying, this is already in place. It’s called the No Surprises Act and it’s supposed to help with this.

  31. Mermaid of the Lunacy*

    In the moment, when you get weepy, force yourself to laugh and just explain it: “I’m so sorry. I have this weird reaction to certain types of conversations. Isn’t that strange? It hits me and then it’s over. Okay, deep breath, I’m back! As I was saying….”

    Maybe just acknowledging it and having a laugh about it will diminish its power and you can get on with the task at hand.

  32. Anon for this one*

    OP – not sure if this describes your background in anyway, but it may be helpful to someone. One of my children recently pointed out to me that my discomfort with asking for what I want or need (from them or anyone else) is a result of growing up in an abusive home where expressing wants led to those wants being weaponized. It was a pretty big concept for me to wrap my head around, but it felt like the right answer after I thought about it for a while. I’ve gotten better at advocating for myself in work settings over the years, but not so much in my personal life. Baby steps, always baby steps.

  33. Andrea*

    Awfully rude to print this whole letter about me without asking.

    Seriously, though, I am the same, and while I am by no means “cured”, therapy has definitely helped me process through where some of my assumptions came from and how I can address them. It’s definitely worth it!

  34. Scooter34*

    I suffer from exactly this problem. I worked with an employment coach. He guided me through four short exercises over a couple of sessions which helped me identify how others see me and I see myself. At the end, we bundled those into a visual image which immediately springs to my mind and breaks that feeling of powerlessness and rage and allows me to keep my composure.

    Whether or not you can access a coach, I am here to attest you CAN find a way to break this. Good luck!

  35. Catwoman*

    Something that has helped me is to put myself on the other side of the interaction when I am asking for something. If you were in HR and someone came to you with the salary request, would you think it was unreasonable or adversarial? If a coworker asked to rehearse this ask with you before going to HR, would you think they were silly? Sometimes we can judge ourselves much more harshly than we would someone else, and this exercise can help break through that.

  36. Triggered*

    Me too OP. Me too. And I recall some of the older stories linked here were so triggering I had to put them aside, then tried to find them later to see the specific books/ articles people recommended and couldn’t find them.. so thank you thank you for this question- I think I’m in a place now where I can handle reading this and taking some of the advice. Or at least I can bookmark it (I hope)….

  37. Umiel12*

    I want to share what helped me. I don’t cry, but my face turns red when I have conversations like this, and sometimes I get really animated which can cause me to speak louder than I intended (I don’t yell, but as a big, tall man, raising my voice much at all doesn’t usually have a good outcome.)

    One of the things that has helped has been practicing the conversation with someone else first. If I have a chance to rehearse with someone else, it generally helps me work out any emotions I have around it before the real conversation happens.

    This will not be the solution for everyone, but if I knew I was going to be in a contentious conversation, especially if I had not had time to rehearse, I would take a Klonopin. These days I don’t need it, but I’m glad I had the resource available when I did need it.

  38. Cat Lady in the Mountains*

    I so empathize with you, LW. I have the hardest time advocating for myself when it comes to things around money in particular. I have zero trouble advocating for my staff to get more money, but when it’s my personal salary/bills/etc. at stake, it feels awful. Part of it I think is it feels like such an unbalanced conversation – like, this is purely a business conversation for whoever I’m talking to, but for me it’s this thing that has enormous impact on my life. So while my boss/HR/the billing person is talking about business needs, I’m thinking about how much of a difference a 3% raise would make to my ability to pay my bills, and the stakes are just so much higher on my end than on theirs.

    The only thing I’ve ever found makes it easier is working in environments with pay transparency and very clear compensation policies. If I trust the system I’m working within, it removes all the “it’s personal” aspect of it for me as well (and I can shoot for something I know is in the range of getting a yes). It has also helped me being both on the customer service end of bill negotiations, and the manager end of salary conversations, so I have actually experienced how not big a deal it is for someone to ask from that perspective.

  39. MotherofaPickle*

    I get this so much. When I get frustrated, I burst into tears, no matter the location or situation. It’s just a reflexive response.

    For me, my alternative is to become angry. Not the best way of handling things, but better than melting into a puddle. This is, when I am truly furious, I become Emily Post level polite, and quiet, and the cussing stops. I become a level of vicious and vindictive that could raise whole cities.

    When dealing with HR/higher-ups, I need to hit that fine line of all of those things plus being professional. I’m still not great at it. It takes a day or two to word the emails correctly. But, oh man, when you hit that sweet spot, it is the most satisfying feeling of getting what you want and knowing they should probably be afraid of you (in a professional sense).

    TL;DR: Don’t cry. Get angry. And use the anger wisely for positive things.

  40. Nah*

    >For example … did you grow up in a family where people weren’t allowed to express their needs, or where only some people were allowed to do that and you weren’t? Or where your needs often weren’t met, and it was a big deal to try to claim things you needed? Or in a family where everything was high-conflict, so when you imagine advocating for yourself, the conversation your brain pictures is dramatic and high-conflict because that’s what was modeled for you early on?

    Alison just calling me out entirely and it’s not even my letter :’o
    I’m struggling through therapy for several years now because I also get teary and (worst of all) my throat *literally closes itself up* when I get angry or impassioned, to the point I physically cannot speak, which just adds to the emotional frustration. it’s so hard to dig yourself out of, especially if, say, you’re too disabled to afford to not live in the same house as the relatives that seeded this behavior into you in the first place. it’s a struggle, and I wish LW the absolute best in working through it. please don’t get discouraged if this reaction doesn’t immediately disappear though, remember that it may have been drilled into you regularly for decades at this point.

  41. Lego Girl*

    This probably won’t (and I hope never will happen!) to the LW, but what made me get over crying when stressed out about dealing with bills was having to argue about insurance not paying for genetic testing on a miscarriage WHEN IT UNCOVERED A PROBLEM. (Fatal and rare xxx chromosomes – people can’t have 69 of them). The kicker was I didn’t get the bill until 8 months and another miscarriage later (which also involves lots of calls to insurance, a lesson about high deductibles where the company pays the majority of it, and a impromptu job change back to my old company for the insurance) and had 21 days to pay $800 or appeal it, over the winter holiday season (which, regardless of your religiousness we all know is a hard time of the year to get things done during with people out). Really, the more you have to say the same things to different people over and over again, the easier it gets, no matter how painful.

  42. H.Regalis*

    Seriously, go to therapy. It can help. You don’t have to spend the rest of your life like this.

    I’m seeing a counselor to get rid of some junk I’ve been carrying around in my head for years, and it’s not easy but it helps.

    I’ve seen friends struggle with depression, maladaptive coping mechanisms from abuse, and so on—sometimes to the point that Being Messed Up has become their identity—and the thing is, a lot of these people I have known for years, sometimes decades. I look at them and think, “This is your life. This is your life happening right now. You’ve been carrying this stuff around for ages and you don’t have to spend all your time feeling like shit.”

  43. TQB*

    I am this, too, and I endorse unpacking the experiences that led us to feel this way, but also, these two tips have made a huge difference for me:

    1) Start doing math in your head. It shifts your brain activity away from the emotional sections. Or something, I’m a doctor, not a brain surgeon; and
    2) Radical F’ing Acceptance. I didn’t get this until I saw a highly esteemed professional woman in my office get teary in a very large and heated meeting. The response was NOT AT ALL what the voice in my head always told me it would be (aka, a version of your chump thing). People appreciated her passion. People supported her. She did not let it silence her. From then on, i decided that whatever emotion I’m bringing to the conversation is GOING to be OK. We have worked too damn long and hard to police ourselves this way. It’s normal. It’s natural. It’s human.

  44. Brain sparkles*

    Oh, this is the first time I’ve read a letter and felt a real gut-punch of recognition. LW, this is me 10 years ago! In my case, it was definitely a family of origin thing (youngest daughter with a whirlwind older sibling, it was made very clear to me from early on that my job was to be good and not rock the boat). Anxiety made it worse.

    What worked for me was 1) anti-anxiety meds 2) getting my undiagnosed ADHD diagnosed 3) talk therapy with the right therapist (keep looking until you find one you feel a strong connection with) and 4) self-compassion practice. Also, literally practice what you want to say OUT LOUD multiple times, in front of a mirror or to someone else, to take the fear out of saying it.

    Good luck, I hope you find your answer, and can be gentle with yourself

  45. j*

    Alison, this is a very beautiful, thoughtful, and compassionate answer. LW, I feel you and I identify with you. I had a therapy appointment just a few hours ago today where the work I am doing is very similar to what Alison has said may be an option to explore. It is good work but hard work to get those brain things all connected. I wish you all of the very best and then some more!

  46. Letter Writer*

    I’m glad to hear my letter resonated with so many people! Makes me feel more normal.

    While I do not have any childhood trauma to speak of, I come from a long line of people who believe it’s taboo to discuss money and are generally conflict avoidant, so of course that’s a factor. And honestly, I am just a natural dweller, so I build things up in my head by overthinking it in advance.

    I love the advice from several people to rehearse what I am going to say out loud to get the emotion out in advance. It sounds simple, but I feel like it could have saved me! I do that for work presentations, so why not other convos at work? But it never occurred to me.

    Also, Cat Lady in the Mountains said it best about these types of conversations feeling high stakes and personal for me and when they’re really routine business convos for the people on the other end. (Like half my frustration/anger is that they don’t think it’s as important and urgent as I do.) I like what you said about the difference between knowing this intellectually and experiencing it yourself from the other side. I’ve just recently gained that perspective from being part of an interview committee. I’m sure some candidates are dissecting their performance (as I would do), but I’ve only thought about them for a total of 3 minutes since the interview ended.

  47. sulky-anne*

    I would really recommend taking on a role (work or volunteer) that involves a lot of low-stakes negotiation. I had a job early in my career that involved daily negotiation with various organizations, and it really demystified the idea of negotiating in my mind. I too had always assumed it to be some kind of big adversarial battle of wills, but the reality is a lot more boring and routine. Obviously it is more challenging when your own compensation is at stake, but I find it much easier to negotiate my own salary now.

  48. Elwing*

    I don’t normally comment on here but I wanted to for this letter because I am exactly the same. I cry in any situation where I am the centre of attention, be it doctors appointments, performance reviews, talking in meetings etc. I’ve gotten better over the years at the meetings, but still cry in performance reviews even if I’ve had a really good year!

    Two things have really helped me: 1) telling my boss that it’s just how my body reacts to anxiety and not a reflection on my true feelings. She’s been super supportive and doesn’t even mention it unless I do or I seem genuinely distressed. Otherwise she takes my cue and ignores it.

    2) as Alison said, therapy. It’s by no means a one size fits all, but I’m in a better place now after almost a year of CBT than I have been after 6 years on antidepressants. I’ve learned a lot about myself, especially how over the course of my life certain events and my own inner demons have reinforced my perception of being worthless. I got promoted at the start of this year, an event which should have made me happy as I’d been working my butt off for years to get it, but when it finally happened all that I felt was intense imposter syndrome which led to a series of serious panic attacks. That’s when I went to my GP (I’m in the UK), told him the meds were no longer enough, and got a series of CBT appointments on the NHS.

    LW, you are honestly not alone. I get the embarrassment and the feeling that you’re undermining yourself by looking weak, but if your boss is someone you can trust, talk to them and explain that it is a more physiological thing than an emotional one. Look into therapy to explore the underlying cause, and most importantly remember you are worth advocating for.

  49. Educator*

    Hospital billing is evil, and this advice does not apply to that horror show, but for salary negotiations and similar–it might help to reframe the idea that you and the company are polite adversaries. If you are at the point of negotiating salary, you both want the same thing, to settle on an agreement that will allow you to get started on the work they need done. When I am hiring, I need to be conscious of my budget, of course, but I want to come to an agreement that works for both my company and my new employee. If I have chosen you from the vast universe of applicants, I’m already on your side. Talking about salary shows me that you are committed to the role and want it to work for both of us long term.

  50. Jerry*

    For me extremely useful mindset to fix the similar problem was — to say to myself “so be it”.

    They will hate me. I will fail. They will think that I am rude. I will sound terrible. I will be ashamed in the process and after. They will laugh at me. My reputation will be horrible. Everyone will fear and despise me. I will have no friends. Noone will tell me hello next time.

    So be it.

    I know that I catastrophize things and all the terrible pictures in my mind will not come true, so I just need say something to my brain to make it shut up and let me do things.

    Imagine that you are speaking to a stranger — unpleasant pessimistic and aggressive person who 100% sure on the worst possible outcome of your actions. You didn’t ask for their advice. You have already told them to cut the bullshit multiple times. They insist on demoralizing you. What you would say to this person? I personally would curse them and just for fun would say to them that I am ready for the apocalypses the promise me. Let them in shock and go away.

  51. Tql*

    I’m going to agree with Allison and suggest therapy. I had this exact problem, well into my 40’s. It came to a head when I didn’t get a promotion I believed I deserved. I went off the deep end! Probably almost got fired. I realized my reactions were way out of line and had been forever. I had a 360 feedback done which confirmed my suspicions. People thought I was abrasive and angry. Once I started therapy, my career took off. Learning to manage my emotions was the key. Good luck!

  52. Scott M*

    1. See if you can find a therapist who does Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT). This is what I did to deal with anxiety. CBT helps you learn about your thought processes and prevents you from spiraling down into “worst-case” thoughts when you are in stressful situations.
    2. When you get emotional, try to lower the pitch of your voice. The effort of doing that helps to keep your voice from breaking.

  53. Anon (and on and on)*

    A theme I caught in your letter was the feeling that you’ve screwed up at some time in the past and are feeling shame for that. “I feel like a chump for not even asking…,” “time to make up for it…,” “I should have known….” I completely relate to this and figured out it’s how a lot of my anxiety and depressive tendencies show up at work!

    If you already feel like you’ve completely screwed up, and feel shame for that, then OF COURSE trying to “fix” that mistake is going to be emotional. I really like Kristin Neff’s book on Self-Compassion and it helped me develop an alternative for beating myself up. This is definitely something to watch out for, and maybe unpack with a therapist.

  54. MigraineMonth*

    I worked (briefly!) for a startup company where the CEO love bombed me right up until I asked to be paid, at which point he told me I was greedy and lazy and had nowhere near the skill and work ethic of my coworker, who was getting paid less. I held my ground and refused to continue work unless he extended my contract, but it hit my self-esteem that this person who had thought so highly of me didn’t any more, and he was right that my coworker was contributing a lot more than I was.

    I told my coworker what I was getting paid and that I thought he should be getting paid at least that, and he laughed. Apparently, my coworker hadn’t gotten paid for the last 3 months and instead of standing up for himself had decided to pretend his job was an unpaid internship!

    I don’t know why it took finding out he was abusing my coworker to recognize that my boss was abusing both of us, but it certainly dispelled any lingering guilt I was feeling about not contributing enough.

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