rolling my eyes while giving feedback, company is forcing me to see their doctor to get prescription coverage, and more

by Alison Green on November 15, 2024

It’s four answers to four questions. Here we go…

1. Should I avoid rolling my eyes while giving feedback to a coworker?

My workplace rarely fires people for performance issues, and it’s led to us retaining a few people who everyone agrees have performance issues but where no action is taken. I have a few colleagues who I’ve given regular, repeated feedback to about basic things like not completing the scope of a project they outlined they would complete or not understanding a topic that they work on regularly. The first time I give someone feedback, I always give them the benefit of the doubt that it may be a one-off. But there are now a couple (of the dozens of colleagues I work with) where I don’t have hope that their performance gaps are coachable. They are both below me in rank, but don’t report to me.

I always keep my words factual, but I’ve now started to receive feedback that I should avoid negative body language, such as eye rolling. Is it reasonable to expect someone to control unconscious body language even if everyone agrees that the negative body language is in reaction to unacceptable performance, not anything personal?

It feels like these employees’ performance issues have now become my problem. Would a man be expected to always be extra “nice”?

Rolling your eyes at someone while giving them feedback is incredibly rude. This isn’t about being “extra nice”; it’s about not showing open contempt while speaking to a colleague, and that’s a reasonable (and very normal) expectation of both men and women.

If you truly can’t control outward signs of contempt, you’ll need to find another method of providing the feedback (like in writing where your eye-rolling can’t be seen) or ask your manager or someone else to deliver it in your place.

For what it’s worth, your company’s refusal to deal with performance issues is a much bigger problem than any individual low performer could be. Direct your contempt there.

Related:
my boss says I’m too much of an “open book” emotionally

2. My company is forcing me to see their doctor to get prescription coverage

I have been taking weight loss medications (think Wegovy, Mounjaro, etc.) for over a year and I am ecstatic to finally be losing weight after a lifetime of struggling with obesity. But I recently received a letter from my employer stating that starting in 2025, our health insurance plans would no longer cover weight loss medications unless they were prescribed by the online clinic they have partnered with which specializes in weight loss. They’ve marketed this partnership as an amazing new benefit to employees. You get to meet with a dietician, download their app, track all your food, connect your activity tracker, all for free! And then maybe, if you qualify, you get to meet with a prescriber. I get what they’re trying to do. The medication is expensive and they need to reduce the number of employees taking them. Note that while we’ve received company-wide emails touting this new amazing benefit, the part about weight loss medications has only been sent quietly via snail mail to the people currently taking them.

I am pretty terrified that I will become a victim of the prescription reduction targets they’re trying to achieve and am frustrated that they believe the opinion of a doctor I’ve never met is more valuable than that of my physician who specializes in medical weight loss and whom I’ve been working with for more than a year. While I don’t believe it will be good for my mental health to reinvigorate a numbers obsession back into my life (calories eaten and burned, pounds, grams of macronutrients, etc.), I am willing to do many of the things my company has outlined to prove I am worthy. But the RX can only come from their doctor.

I’ve already expressed my concerns to our third-party benefits support provider and plan to appeal the rejection I will receive when my physician prescribes me this medication in January. In the meantime, I have begun jumping through their hoops, some of which seem invasive, make me uncomfortable, and are all pretty time consuming. (Each day you open their app, you have a new long list of “things to do” and information to share.) Is there anything else I can do in the meantime to convince my company that their doctor is not better than my doctor and that abruptly cutting off care will not be good for my health? For context, I work for a large global publicly traded company that manages several “operating companies” and I personally am located in Massachusetts.

Probably not, I’m sorry. Less than 20% of large companies in the U.S. cover weight loss drugs in their insurance plans at all; they’re increasingly being excluded from coverage because of the cost. About half of those that do cover them are adding requirements like your company’s. If you want to continue to get them through your insurance, this is likely the only way you can do it.

3. Do I have to continue my old boss’s gift-giving tradition?

Early in the year, my boss moved across the county to a new job, and I was given his role. I am now the manager of our small office and my coworkers. Several of us have been here since this branch opened; we’ve been peers all along and have held various levels of supervisory status. We are a client-facing operation so that title is not so much for internal supervision as it is procedural for client issues.

My boss used to give everyone gift cards for Christmas, either for specific stores or a general Visa-type card. Last year I was given $100 and two others $50, and the rest of the staff $25. No one else exchanged gifts that I know of. I was pleased, I admit. I mean, who doesn’t like free money?

But I think I’m a bit of a hypocrite because I am not a gift-giver or holiday-minded person by nature, and I somehow feel weird about taking over the gifting role. I’ve never exchanged gifts with these folks, and it kind of seems odd to start now. I appreciate them hugely, and I tell them so often (they really do make my work life easy), but giving gifts seems … too personal? But maybe that’s just my anti-holiday streak talking. Would it be really egregious to skip the individual gift and do some sort of a group recognition?

You’re fine skipping the gifts. You’re not obligated to give gifts, even as the boss. That said, before you decide, are you sure your old boss was buying those gifts personally rather than them being “from” the company? If they’re paid for by the company, it would be Scrooge-ish to stop the tradition.

However, giving different amounts to different people is weird! If it turns out the company will pay for gift cards and so you continue giving them, everyone should get the same amount.

4. I can’t convince myself to start job searching

My boss sucks, and isn’t going to change. I work for a micromanager who plays favorites, and while I’ve been able to find ways to work around this for years — work from home was great! — I’ve finally reached my breaking point. This isn’t healthy, I don’t deserve to be miserable at work, and there has to be something better out there.

The problem I’m facing is actually taking the plunge and starting a job search. I know I need to get out! I feel strongly about this! There are positions on my industry job board that I’d be qualified for! And yet: I can’t bring myself to update my resume and put myself out there.

I think there’s a lot of things playing into this hesitation. This is my first professional job, which I came to without the traditional educational background. It’s been made clear that it’s Very Unusual for someone without the traditional background to hold a position in our industry. And while I am at a crisis point with my boss, I love the work itself; under different management (which likely won’t happen at my organization for many years), I’d be happy to stay here indefinitely. What if I can’t get hired into another job in my industry? Am I insane for considering moving out of my low-cost-of-living region? Is it foolish to throw away my current position, where I’ve got middling seniority, when my industry (and the world!) may become increasingly turbulent in months and years to come? What if, what if, what if…

At the end of the day, I know the answer: I’m miserable, and it doesn’t hurt anything to see what’s out there. Job searching and leaving a job are two different decisions, and I should view them separately. What I could use is advice about how to make that leap, emotionally, from “I know I need to look” to actually looking. Any guidance about how to get over the hump would be greatly appreciated.

Look at this way: you’re just gathering information. If you’re worried that you won’t be able to get hired into another job in your industry, the only way to confirm or disprove that is to apply for jobs and find out. If you’re right about that, you’ll find out by … not being offered other jobs. It doesn’t make sense to decide that preemptively, rather than testing the market.

And you’re not obligated to take a job just because it’s offered to you; you can job search simply to see what’s out there and to compare those jobs against your current situation. If you decide you’re not ready to make the move once you’re offered a specific, concrete job, you’re allowed to decide that. But by not even looking, you’re taking away all options from yourself and just ensuring you’ll stay where you are, with a boss who’s making you miserable. If you end up choosing that in the end, after comparing it to other real options, so be it — but do yourself the favor of letting it be a real choice.

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{ 485 comments }

{ 485 comments… read them below }

  1. Tio*

    LW1: When you say “Would a man be expected to always be extra “nice”?” not rolling your eyes is not “extra” nice, it’s a baseline behavior. And any man that’s getting away with it would be a man getting away with a lot of other bad behavior, but also women get away with this one in particular A LOT. Some managers view it as not a big deal or a personality conflict, but like Alison said, it’s incredibly rude and not ok.

      1. Worldwalker*

        Exactly.

        There is no situation in which rolling your eyes while giving feedback is anything other than outright, flagrantly rude.

        1. Yay! I’m a llama again!*

          ‘Should I avoid rolling my eyes…’ I really thought I’d read it wrong!

          LW1, if you were receiving feedback and the person giving it to you was rolling their eyes, how would you feel? It’s extremely unprofessional and rude.

        2. ferrina*

          Right?! The question pretty much read “I’m being rude to my coworkers- help me convince my boss that I should be allowed to continue this.”

      2. tina turner*

        Yes!
        [Don’t stick out your tongue at people, either. Don’t give them the finger. Don’t moon them.]

      3. Artistic Impulses*

        LW1, although we are are all flawed human beings, you should be striving to be as professional as possible as much as you can.

        If eye rolling is almost second nature and you aren’t really aware of it, you can certainly train yourself not to do it when giving feedback to coworkers.

        Regardless of what you think of the people you are giving feedback to, you should still hold yourself to a higher standard. Even if you think the coworker is useless, you never know when your message might land in an unexpectedly good way.

        Since you have already been given a warning about the eye rolling, it has definitely noticed, and not in a good way. You can do better.

    2. Michigander*

      The idea that not rolling your eyes is being extra nice! And that it’s an unconscious physical reaction that you have no control over and shouldn’t have to apologise for. If you think any of those things, guaranteed you are rolling your eyes too often.

      1. London Lass*

        Absolutely. If it’s that much of a reflex that you don’t notice yourself doing it, you need to break that habit asap.

        Yes it will take a bit of thought and effort, but it’s not a physical impossibility to keep your eyes looking at either the person you’re talking to, or the work in question.

      2. Eldritch Office Worker*

        Right! This is odd to me, I think 99% of the time, unless I’m in a super relaxed situation or exhausted beyond my last nerve, eye rolling is extremely voluntary. I am concerned someone would be doing it so often it’s unconscious.

        1. Insulindian Phasmid*

          Nnn, I disagree. Maybe not “unconscious” but certainly “so fast that it’s already happened by the time I realized I did it.” Something to work on if this is the performance you’re putting on for your job, but like…idk. More akin to when you’re on stage and you have to curb the immediate reaction to grimace and react to yourself if you say the wrong line. It’s hard! It takes practice and the right mindset, and if you haven’t done it before it’ll be really difficult to get right immediately.

          1. CeeDoo*

            As a teacher, I have had to work SO hard to train this out of myself. The 20th time I hear the same question, my eyes could roll out of my head and my nostrils flare until I could vaccuum up the room. It takes real effort not to. I have to keep a smile on my face so I can keep a smile in my voice.

            1. NotBatman*

              THIS. Fighting to take a breath and keep a neutral expression during the 20th round of “Will this be on the test?” is hard. But it’s also as important to suppress that impulse as it is to suppress the impulse to wipe my nose or turn pages by licking my finger. All of those things could happen once or twice without thinking, and they’re all unacceptable as habits.

          2. MigraineMonth*

            Yeah, I agree that eyerolling (the small version, not the 2-second exaggerated for the back of the auditorium version) can be as reflexive as grimacing, sighing or opening your mouth in shock. I do some of those when I’m particularly relaxed, and it does take effort to keep a more neutral expression. (I had to briefly turn off my camera during one meeting when I realized my real opinion of the project was too apparent.)

            However, part of professionalism is making that effort if it means not showing contempt for coworkers or insubordination to one’s boss. Unless there is a disability to be accommodated (with accommodations such as providing feedback in writing, not “sure, go on treating your coworkers like shit”), putting on a neutral face for professional interactions is similar to having to put on clothing: annoying but required.

        2. JSPA*

          If you are not trained away from letting your expressions show, at a young age–which is highly variable by culture and by family–it is legitimately harder to regulate and to catch yourself. But for the vast majority of people, “harder” means “harder,” not “impossible.”

          Would the LW roll their eyes at an interviewer? At a funeral? If they can control their expressions at ANY other time, then yes, this ought to be one such time.

          Furthermore, writing off people who are incompetent or who learn slowly as deserving of mockery? Not Great.

          OP, if you’ve never been stuck in a job you can’t quite hack, but also can’t reasonably quit because you need the paycheck… you’re lucky.

          And the only way to know if they are completely unreachable and unteachable is to do a bit extra (not a bare minimum with a side of mockery) in trying to reach, and to teach.

          It may not work. Some people find themselves in jobs that are a terrible fit. But sometimes, if you put in 120% a few times, they’ll pull out a 200% effort, and level up to reasonable minimum competence.

          1. Irish Teacher.*

            And from the letter, I get the impression the LW might not be trying too hard and that they…don’t seem to really see it from the point of view of the person they are rolling their eyes at. If they said, “I was horrified to realise how noticeable it was and keep thinking how hurtful it must have been for the people I rolled my eyes at but it’s just a habit I have and I barely even notice I do it. How can I stop/avoid giving people the impression I think they’re stupid when yeah, sometimes I do think that?” I’d be more inclined to think this was something they found hard to control. But it seems to be more “why are they gettin offended? Surely they know I’m just annoyed because they are bad at their jobs and it’s not that I hate them as people or am trying to bully them!”

            Which, yeah, means the LW isn’t being deliberately mean, but…it’s probably more hurtful. If I thought somebody went around rolling their eyes at people because they were a horrible person who enjoyed upsetting people…well, I wouldn’t like that person but I wouldn’t take it personally; it’d just think they were an idiot. But if I thought somebody was a basically nice well-meaning person who just couldn’t avoid rolling their eyes at me because my mistakes were so egregious that they found it frustrating to even talk to such a stupid person…well, that’s really personal and upsetting.

        3. Festively Dressed Earl*

          The only time I can’t control rolling my eyes is if I’m trying to suppress something else (i.e. trying not to cry). So, not always voluntary, but usually.

          1. Joron Twiner*

            Rolling your eyes is not the same thing as looking up. Most humans can distinguish these two behaviors.

      3. MassMatt*

        I’m wondering whether it’s symptomatic of a terrible work culture.

        On the one hand, people are complaining about it and she’s being told to stop. On the other hand, poor performers are not dealt with. AND she’s regularly giving feedback to people she doesn’t manage.

        1. Smithy*

          I have to think that this is part of it.

          A work culture with bad management or an overall toxic place to work inevitably breeds bad behaviors. They’re either survival/coping skills that in better workplaces are not common – but on top of that, it can also let your overall professionalism slip because you’ve stopped caring. It’s a messy place where professional norms aren’t being upheld, so why should you? If Manager X is regularly screaming at their team, and Director Y is watching adult content in the office during lunch – then rolling your eyes while giving constructive feedback just doesn’t seem so bad.

          In the short term it likely won’t get you fired, and just because it’s not correct doesn’t excuse the badness happening around you. However, it does mean that whenever you leave for another job, it’s just one more behavior you need to focus on changing.

        2. Madame Desmortes*

          Reasonable to wonder about this, I think. I am a recovering eye-roller and lip-purser, and I definitely got into the habit in a workplace I should have gotten out of a lot sooner than I did.

        3. MigraineMonth*

          A lot of workplaces have you give feedback to someone you don’t manage. Every workplace I’ve been in, it’s part of the process to have your work reviewed by a peer and also a team lead or project lead. It is a different type of feedback from what a manager should give; managers should be giving big-picture feedback and explaining consequences.

          I notice that LW1 talks about only giving a coworker the benefit of the doubt once. How quickly after that do they reach the conclusion that the coworker is “uncoachable”? Is the issue that the company doesn’t deal with poor performers, or that LW1’s expectations are significantly higher than the company’s and that is the source of the frustration?

      4. Theon, Theon, it rhymes with neon*

        As somebody who came down on the side of “Obviously you grimace involuntarily when somebody says something factually wrong, and repressing that reaction is going to require policing your face to a degree that may affect the working relationship” on a recent letter…

        Obviously you don’t roll your eyes when giving feedback!

        1. Azure Jane Lunatic*

          I’ve learned that it’s easier to control an unwanted but habitual behavior when you’re doing something that’s incompatible with that behavior. So in this situation, LW1 could pick a place to look that is not the ceiling, and focus on looking at that place while giving the feedback.

    3. Falling Diphthong*

      Also, the idea that rolling your eyes is involuntary. If you could control the thing (eye-rolling, screaming, etc) when addressing someone with more power than you, it is not an involuntary thing like blinking.

      If you had squared-off body language with a hint of irritation in your voice, that would be within norms.

      1. darsynia*

        Yes! I describe certain ‘don’t do this’ actions with my kids as ‘hot stove’ actions, or ‘don’t run out in traffic’ actions. The idea is that mentally, there are certain behaviors that should be as ‘absolutely do not do this’ as not touching a hot stove or running out into traffic. They’re just not as obviously dangerous, so you use that kind of thinking to teach yourself the imperative not to do it.

        As a manager, rolling your eyes while giving feedback is a hot stove action. Absolutely do not do it, it will materially damage your reputation, which damages your career opportunities, which can ruin your life.

      2. Michigander*

        I could see rolling your eyes as an involuntary action, realising what you’ve done, and immediately apologising and trying to explain it away. But repeatedly? That frequently? It’s either not involuntary OR you’ve done it so often, so many times, that it’s become involuntary. But I don’t think it is for most people.

        1. Resident Catholicville, U.S.A.*

          I understand that it’s probably involuntary and even repeatedly- until you’re called out for doing it. At that point, of course you should re-evaluate your behavior.

      3. Antilles*

        If you could control the thing (eye-rolling, screaming, etc) when addressing someone with more power than you, it is not an involuntary thing like blinking.
        That jumped out at me too. It seems rather unlikely that there aren’t people higher than OP who also makes mistakes. Is OP also rolling eyes at the grand boss when he forgets how to create an appointment in Outlook, at the director when she asks for yet another status update, etc?

      4. Quinalla*

        Yup agreed! I have seen folks argue that something is involuntary and yet they have no problem controlling their reactions when their boss or someone else they perceive as higher in the hierarchy is talking to them. I would examine if this is truly involuntary or just a bad habit OP and get to work on it ASAP! Rolling eyes at someone is incredibly rude and something you need to stop immediately. As Alison said, it shows your contempt which is something you just cannot show for coworkers. And also as she said, your contempt should be for the mismanagement, not for the coworkers. It is completely fine to treat things more seriously when they are repeat mistakes, I do that too, but rolling your eyes is going to undermine any message you might be giving these folks.

    4. LifebeforeCorona*

      Years ago I read an article about workplace practices. One person told how during a presentation to a large group, the grandboss asked a follow-up question. She rolled her eyes and answered the question. Her boss was not impressed and that one gesture stalled her career path with that company. I was a side-eye person and I learned to look downwards and pensive as though I’m gathering my thoughts.

      1. Escapee from Corporate Management*

        This! I had extensive coaching and media training that included a focus on body language, facial expressions, and tone of voice (not that I had a bad problem; this was a standard part of executive training at my old company). All of these are controllable with proper coaching and practice. This made managers much better, as they needed to take personal responsibility for improving their interactions with others.

        OP, you need to do the same. Calling your eye rolls involuntary is a cop out. If your company is not helping you address this, consider doing to on your own. It will not only help your career, it may also help you re-examine how your interactions with others are counterproductive.

        1. Anax*

          Yeah, I’m autistic and had to learn all of these by rote. It’s hard, but it’s doable, even if it doesn’t come naturally AT ALL.

          And if LW wants to be a manager, “conveying feedback reasonably accurately and without unintentionally offending people” is an absolute must. It might actually be the MOST important skill for a manager. Even if it takes a lot of effort – even professional coaching! – it’s one of those essential skills that absolutely cannot be avoided in that position.

          (I do feel for LW some, because I used to get scolded all the time for rolling my eyes. I didn’t understand what “rolling my eyes” *was* until my twenties – I thought it meant having your eyes roll all the way back in your head so only the white showed, and I hadn’t done THAT. “Looking upward” wasn’t something I’d considered relevant to communication at all – as far as I could tell, people just got angry with me for things I had no memory of doing.

          I made a real, concerted effort to learn enough body language to get by when I was in college and my twenties, and it’s been pretty successful in both work and my personal life. It’s been a special interest for over ten years now, so while I’m still obviously autistic, it’s been a while since someone was inexplicably upset with me for unconscious body language.

          Legit advice if anyone is in that boat – if you can watch reality TV, it’s a GREAT starting point. The trashier the better. They zoom in on body language or expressions, repeatedly, while a narrator or another character describes them, and a musical cue tells you how you’re supposed to feel about it. I learned a ton from some absolute trash – the trashier it is, the more they explicitly, verbally explain what’s going on.)

          1. Reluctant Mezzo*

            Yes this! I remember an episode of Young Sheldon where he has to watch a soap and remember it because his twin sister will be out of town–and it shows his dad and him parsing the facial expressions and the music that accompanies them.

    5. ursula*

      It’s a minor point in this letter, but I truly hate that “women and men shouldn’t be held to different standards of niceness” has become an excuse for some #girlboss women to just act rude as hell. I understand how we got here (truly), but I wish the response had been to better value social negotiation skills in the workplace and expect men to develop them, rather than all of us just living down to this imagined standard where nobody owes each other any courtesy whatsoever. Especially from a boss/manager, it’s ugly. Regardless of your gender.

      1. sparkle emoji*

        Major agree. Eye rolling reads as contempt IMO, which wouldn’t be tolerated from men or women in any workplace I’ve worked in.

      2. Wayward Sun*

        People act like only women have agency, and men are just forces of nature that can’t be expected to control themselves. It’s infuriating.

      3. Goldenrod*

        Yes, Ursula, I agree! I’ve seen this argument trotted out to explain abusive female bosses, and it’s bullshit. Abuse is abuse.

      4. Six for the truth over solace in lies*

        Yes! I don’t want the right to be as jackassy as my jackassiest male colleague or acquaintance. I want them to also be held to a reasonable standard of behavior. Let’s not race to the bottom over decency to one another.

      5. MigraineMonth*

        Agreed, though it is important to remember that currently women (and particularly women of color) are too often held to higher-than-possible standards of niceness. As beautifully parodied in How to be Successful Without Hurting Men’s Feelings: Non-Threatening Leadership Strategies for Women by Sarah Cooper, many women are expected to both succeed and manage others’ feeling about their success.

        So while we shouldn’t say “It’s okay for me to do as a woman because men could get away with this bad behavior”, there’s plenty of room for “It’s okay for me to do because it’s reasonable and the pushback and demand for niceness are rooted in misogyny, as demonstrated by the fact that it’s an admired trait in male leaders.”

        https://www.askamanager.org/2018/10/how-to-be-successful-without-hurting-mens-feelings.html

        https://www.amazon.com/Successful-without-Hurting-Mens-Feelings/dp/1449476074/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=sl1&tag=askaman08-20&linkId=0ce8cba5cf7fb300fce5c728ef3f8938&language=en_US

        1. Nodramalama*

          Except that has nothing to do with this example and the issue is when people try use the argument that men and women are held to different standards to try justify their own bad behaviour.

      6. T'Cael Zaanidor Kilyle*

        Agreed! Different workplace standards for men and women are a problem, but much of the time, the best thing would be to hold men to the same standards as women, because often those standards are good and help create a better environment.

    6. Impending Socks*

      I also really want to know how much that eye rolling etc is affecting whether people take on the feedback and change, because I feel like it sort of delegitimises the point.

      1. Light Spinner*

        It very likely shifts the employee’s focus from the actual feedback being given to how rude the OP is being. And we’re less likely to take advice seriously if we think that the person giving it is being a jerk!

        OP, rolling your eyes is NOT an involuntary physical response; it’s a bad, unprofessional habit that you’ve picked up. Apparently, those employees whom you regard with so much contempt that you roll your eyes at them aren’t the only people in your company with performance problems – look in the mirror and you’ll see one of them looking back at you!

        1. Learn ALL the things*

          Exactly. Eye rolling isn’t something your body does on its own, like your foot kicking out when the doctor taps your knee. It’s something that you’re capable of becoming conscious of and controlling.

          Ask a friend to practice with you. Give them a script of some of the conversations you’ve had with coworkers that have made you roll your eyes, and practice giving feedback while keeping your face neutral. Make sure it’s a friend that will be honest with you and point out when you’ve rolled your eyes so you can go over it again.

          1. JSPA*

            Many / most reflexes CAN be over-ridden, if you expect the stimulus and prepare in advance (including the knee tap). Eye-rolling may well be more “reflexive” / de-facto a reflex for some people. But that’s even more reason to practice shutting it down in work interactions. Or at minimum, you apologize for it! (“Sorry, when I hear myself say this, I feel eye-roll-y over being ineffectual. But that’s at the situation, not at you, I promise! And I’d love to find a way to work with you on this project that’s more effective and less frustrating for both of us.”)

      2. Anonym*

        It’s hard to give credence to the perspectives of people who are visibly unprofessional. Not that they can’t have valuable feedback, but damn is that level of rudeness out of step with norms of professional and social behavior. Makes them much easier to dismiss, rightfully or not. OP is undermining herself by doing this.

      3. Insert Clever Name Here*

        Yeah, I’d honestly probably think “well f*ck you, too, and your feedback.”

        And I don’t even think there’s an inherent problem with getting feedback from someone who doesn’t manage me!

      4. LL*

        Yeah, if someone who had no actual power over me at work was rolling their eyes while giving me feedback, I’d just ignore the feedback. Eye rolling is such a childish thing to do that I wouldn’t take them seriously.

    7. Katara's side braids*

      Right. Pointing out double standards gets us halfway to progress, but too often people’s takeaway is that they should *also* be allowed to get away with the dominant group’s bad behavior. Sometimes those of us who get the short end of the double standard stick are actually doing it right, and we should really be trying to get the dominant group (in this case, men) to join us.

      1. Smithy*

        This right here.

        To take the language of policing women’s body language and appearance when “at rest” – i.e. how their mouth falls when listening to speakers or working at their computer, and applying that to active body language such as eye rolling or grimacing is a disservice to all of us. The fact that many men have been able to include that body language at work as part of giving feedback helps no one.

        I have an expressive face, and as a woman I’m sure that’s gotten me more flack than had I been a man. However, I can also identify those moments where leaning into that immediate expression has hurt the feelings of friends where that’s not the affect I want. Not to mention, the desire to be taken seriously at work for the intentional ideas I express as opposed to an immediate emotional reaction. So taking the time to become more mindful in moderating those expressions has been helpful across the entirety of my life.

        For sure, this is more work for some of us than others. But a lot of professional/office behavior is work to learn, but also of value.

      2. Boof*

        Yes 1) dominant group is not necessarily the “correct” group and 2) in this specific case, OP is not being asked to “smile more” but more like “scowl less” which, well, actively negative expressions in the workplace are much more reasonable to push back on, especially when you are attempting to deliver a message! For everyone.

    8. Marshmallow*

      I might also add that giving someone the benefit of the doubt one time and then resorting to impatience and eyerolling right after that is also unreasonable. It can take time to learn things. There’s a silly mantra out there about how people need to hear something 7 times, 7 ways to remember or understand or something. In addition, my manager occasionally reminds me that “just because something is obvious to you doesn’t mean it’s obvious to everyone”. I remind him of it occasionally too. It’s easy to forget about the times that you didn’t learn something immediately or when you didn’t know something.

      Don’t be rude.

      1. jlp*

        I’m reminding myself that just because it’s obvious to me that eye rolling while giving feedback is bad, it’s not obvious to everyone.

    9. hi*

      LW1 is finding any excuse to be rude to coworkers and get away with it. First, the eye-rolling is unconscious? Suuuuuure. Oh, they’re pointing this rude behavior out to me because I’m a woman? Okay.

      How many times has LW been asked to dial back the body language? Because apparently if it’s more than a couple of times, LW’s boss can start rolling their eyes at her when they have to repeat themselves.

    10. KayDeeAye*

      The OP is also being disingenuous to refer to eye rolling as “unconscious body language.” Come on – you don’t unconsciously roll your eyes! Maybe the first time you did it, you might not have realized that’s what you were doing, but you for sure know now! You make a choice to roll your eyes, and you need to cut it out.

      Look at it this way: Telling a colleague “I think you’re an annoying, incompetent person” would be rude, right. Incontestably rude rude rude. Well, that’s exactly what you’re saying when you roll your eyes.

      1. WorkplaceSurvivor*

        While I can’t speak for OP1, I know that as a neurodivergent person, I learned at the grand old age of 28 that people consider “rolling your eyes” to be just looking up and back down. I thought it was a whole literal rolling movement. I had gotten accused of (punished even) rolling my eyes at people for YEARS and was always soooo confused by this.

        So while I don’t exactly think that’s what OP1 is saying, I do want to mention that it can be unconscious.

        1. jlp*

          I had that same revelation after years of my parents telling me to stop rolling my eyes when really I was just looking up to think. Basically, same :)

        2. fluff*

          Yes – this.

          It can be a learned behavior that became unconscious years ago. OP, it is worth practicing and having an outsider help you with feedback. Perhaps practice giving feedback and video yourself (in a pretend scenario). Look and see if you catch the motion. It is no where as useful as having someone watch you – you might just pick up on the eye movement you are doing when saying something that seems obvious to you.

          I “roll my eyes” up to the left which apparently looks quite um…creepy. It is a habit I have when I am thinking – my dad always said I was looking for some astral being to whisper the knowledge into my ear. I did it when I had to think about solving a problem, answering a question during a presentation, and when I got bad or confusing feedback. Had my boss not told me how I appeared to someone outside of my body and face, I would have been rude for the rest of my life.

          Please OP get an outside-your-body opinion on your body language and what your particular eyeballs are doing.

      2. WorkplaceSurvivor*

        While I can’t speak for OP, but as a neurodivergent person, I learned at the grand ol’ age of 28 that people consider “eye rolling” to be just looking up and back down. I thought it was literally rolling your eyes around in a circle. I would get in trouble for this all the time (even up to my early 20’s at work).

        I do that motion to think, as eye contact while talking can overwhelm me. Once someone finally explained it to me, I started watching for it. And again, I know that’s not exactly the situation with OP1, but rolling your eyes can be unconscious behavior!

    11. windsofwinter*

      This is why I tend to side-eye the “think/act/be like a man” rah rah stuff sometimes. Why do we think what might be typical for a man to do is automatically the better or right behavior? Although in this context I don’t believe eye rolling is typical or more excused for men. But aside from this specific context, I think people should really stop and think when they automatically assume that whatever a stereotypical man would do in a given situation is better. Male-dominated behaviors aren’t the best choice by default.

      1. Spencer Hastings*

        Also, what’s described as “acting like a man” is often based on stereotypes. I work with men all the time who apologize for interrupting, soften their tone when criticizing, and do lots of other things that we women are told won’t get us the corner office. But the stereotype is that men are brash and full of gumption and that we should be like that too.

    12. Meep*

      I am as feminist as they come but yeah, this is not a sexism issue. This is 100% it is rude to roll your eyes regardless of how annoying and dumb your coworkers are issue.

    13. linger*

      Is OP1 rolling their eyes at the employee or at the situation?
      If the latter, it may not be “rude”, but it is nevertheless counterproductive, and should stop.
      There are at least two factors in play that might provoke an eye roll:
      (1) “I’ve already spoken to you multiple times about this same issue, yet here we are again.”
      (2) “We both know nothing I say can be enforced and so nothing will change.”
      But in either case, OP1 is assuming the employee is incapable of change, either intrinsically (1), or within the org culture (2).
      And in the second case, OP1 is helping to reinforce and legitimize that culture.
      Hence the eyeroll response — however it is meant, however conscious it is — undermines any corrective value the feedback might otherwise have. Why should an employee try to improve if their manager assumes improvement is impossible? If OP1 instead approaches feedback with the intention to find ways towards improvement, then maybe they might see some improvement happen. And OP1 may find their eyes rolling less.

      1. NYCafe*

        Once at work during a meeting, a coworker thought I said something stupid and incorrect. She immediately rolled her eyes and exchanged glances with another coworker, as if to say, ‘wow, what an idiot.” I thought the coworker who rolled her eyes at me was a friend, and her eye rolling reaction deeply hurt. Maybe I am over reacting, but I couldn’t even be friends with her after that, it stung that badly and I felt betrayed. I’m just saying this to emphasize, that eye rolling is a big deal, unlike what the OP seems to think. By the way, the comment I had made in the meeting was later proven to be accurate.

        1. Goldenrod*

          Agreed. It’s a microaggression. So, yes, it’s hurtful.

          I had a boss who was careful to keep her words and language measured and reasonable-sounding. But, boy, was she hurtful with her hostile body language, tone, and facial expressions. So much of what we communicate to others is non-verbal. And that doesn’t mean it doesn’t count.

          1. Cthulhu's Librarian*

            Is it really a micro aggression? I’ve also taken the idea behind those to be that they’re relatively small and innocuous individually, and that the cumulative impact of them is the problem.

            Rolling your eyes is deliberately undertaking an action to convey your contempt for someone. It’s non-verbal communication that is as clear as text in most situations.

    14. Priscilla Tells It Like It Is*

      Christ and Mary yea a man would be told not to roll their eyes at people, and heavens, my mom woulda rung me out if I were so proudly rude to others in such a way.

    15. NYCafe*

      Once at work during a meeting, a coworker thought I said something stupid and incorrect. She immediately rolled her eyes and exchanged glances with another coworker, as if to say, ‘wow, what an idiot.” I thought the coworker who rolled her eyes at me was a friend, and her eye rolling reaction deeply hurt. Maybe I am over reacting, but I couldn’t even be friends with her after that, it stung that badly and I felt betrayed. I’m just saying this to emphasize, that eye rolling is a big deal, unlike what the OP seems to think. By the way, the comment I had made in the meeting was later proven to be accurate.

    16. TQB*

      I learned this the very hard way when i (24 year old woman at the time) eye-rolled during an interview dinner. Fortunately, my soon-to-be boss used it as a teachable moment, but OMG i look back now and want to slap myself across the face.

    18. Still Spooky*

      And ironically, OP is displaying a performance issue in rolling her eyes, despite being so contemptuous about them!

  2. Daria grace*

    #4, I’ve struggled with getting job searches going a couple of times before. It helps to remember it gets easier after a few applications. You get into a rhythm, your resume gets finished, you develop cover letter material you can reuse with tweaks in future applications, the interviews get less intimidating. If you can push yourself through the stressful early weeks of job hunting it likely won’t keep feeling as overwhelming as it does now

    1. Been There*

      Agreed!

      I would also take what Alison said further to take baby steps. For at least a week, don’t even think about applying for a job and just focus on getting a draft (not even a final draft!) of your resume:
      – Day 1: literally just open your resume. Read it over, edit any easy obvious things like a new address or typos if you feel like it, but otherwise just reorient yourself on what you have to work with
      – Day 2: update your most recent job with whatever comes to your mind, remove any old things that aren’t relevant
      etc, etc

      You might find that by giving yourself a very low bar, when you open your resume on Day 2, you think, oh I might as well revise that whole section and it gets easier and easier. It’s the anticipation of everything that feels overwhelming, but doing the individual steps themselves aren’t so bad.

      And then once you have a bunch of those little steps in a row, you’ll feel better about making the next ones where you look at jobs and reach out to your network.

      1. ferrina*

        This! I usually take a couple weeks to work on my materials, then treat the first month as “practice applications” to help me get in the groove of a job search. Of course, the “practice applications” are just as valid as the “real” ones, it’s just the mindset that’s different. But it’s what gets me going and helps me stay upbeat in the search.

        Another thing is to search before you are desperate to get out. It means that you’ll be pickier in your search (therefor less likely to accept a bad fit) and if you aren’t selected, it gives you the opportunity to keep working at your current company. So either you get to stay at the place where you are sort of something-close-to-happy, or you get to go somewhere that you are genuinely enthusiastic about. (bonus: this mindset also helps with folks who are hesitant to withdraw candidacy if they realize the job isn’t a good fit for them)

    2. Testing*

      All of this! Also, applying for jobs and getting some interviews lets you refine your own thoughts about what kind of job you want and what you are offering.

      Last time I was applying it took me a year to finally find a job, but in the end this was a good thing as my thoughts and expectations changed a lot during the process and I ended up applying for quite different jobs towards the end compared to the beginning.

      2. Jules the 3rd*

        ++ Came here to say pretty much this.

        But also: Breaking the ‘job hunt’ task into steps may make it easier talk yourself into each step.
        1. “I am updating my resume’ because it’s useful to have an updated one in case of job emergencies, and also because I can use some of it to document my current work accomplishments” (I used to put all my key annual evaluation accomplishments into my resume. I could edit them down/out if they didn’t really rise to the level of resume-worthy, or consolidate them if I got the same things in different years. I found it helpful to have everything in one base document)
        2. “I am applying for 1 – 2 jobs because that will help me draft a base cover letter that I can customize easily, and give me a chance to think about how I feel about these jobs.” Bonus: Most employer sites now store your applications, making new applications easier.

        I got laid of seven months ago. (I am 2mo into a new job, it’s all good) As I applied, I realized I had lost my appetite for corporate work, but the exact same jobs in government entities were still interesting. So I switched gears to 90% govt job searches, 10% corporate, with very different criteria – corporate would require >10% pay increase to be considered, but govt, I’d take up to 10% pay drop.

        Maybe start by looking in your own company, since you like it and they are ok with your background. But once you have a couple of years experience, ed background should matter less, though yeah, may be a little harder to get through the auto screening. Despite an MBA & 10+ years in finance / finance adjacent roles, I could not get a grants or budget analyst position from anyone, so I’m in a budget systems support role and going to work on getting grants / budget analyst ed and experience.

        KEEP THIS STUFF ON A PERSONAL COMPUTER, NOT WORK! I was able to use Google Docs / Sheets when I lost my work access to Microsoft Office.

      3. Bee*

        Not a job search, but I started apartment-hunting about a year and a half before I knew I would be able to afford my own place, just to see what was out there. It was a big daunting step: I’d lived with roommates for six years at that point, it was going to increase my housing costs by ~50%, and I was still so worried I wouldn’t be able to find something decent in my price range and would regret giving up my great apartment+neighborhood even with the roommates. So I didn’t wait until my lease was up and I’d have to take whatever I could get – I started looking at listings and going to see the ones I really liked. It happened that the best apartment I saw in a year and a half became available a month before I had to move out, so it worked out perfectly, but I was so glad I’d done all that prep work so I knew exactly why I wanted it! I’ve been here six years now, and I was totally right about everything (including the one downside: the commute).

    3. Sloanicota*

      Yep. If this OP is truly paralyzed, it may be worth it to go to counseling a few times to work on that specifically – but otherwise, just getting one or two resumes out will help you see it’s not really a big deal. You don’t have to grapple with big existential questions unless they are in front of you. Apply widely to anything that looks like it has potential; you can always decline to even interview if you come to realize you really don’t want a move or whatever.

      1. Great Frogs of Literature*

        For a less intense option than counseling, body doubling might also help. OP, do you have a good friend who you trust to hold you accountable? Would that person come to your house for several hours, or do a long video call with you? Your choice whether you’re asking, “Will you sit with me and talk me through updating my application materials and applying to Job X?” or just “Will you spend time with me working on [thing you’re trying to make time to do] while I apply to jobs?” — whichever you think would be more useful.

        I’m willing to bet you have at least one friend who really wants you out of that job. (And if you don’t, you should definitely find some.)

        1. Jules the 3rd*

          I have worked with several friends to build their resume’s, I think it’s kinda fun writing out how cool they are.

        2. Jessastory*

          echoing the working with friends! It really helps me to buckle down and get difficult tasks done when we have an agreement “this is work time”

          another thing that worked for me was having a friend agree to look over my resume – it gave me a goal to update certain pieces at a time so I could send them to her.

      2. Similar Boat*

        Echoing the advice to explore professional/medical help as appropriate. I am in a similar situation as OP but I’d get physically ill any time I tried to take concrete actions towards a job search. Spoke to my GP about it, and was prescribed something to take in those situations and it helped me get over the initial hump. I was able to work on resume for short intervals and post it to a job board then progressed to being able to do so without taking the medication. Interacting with recruiters, first few interviews, same thing. I am still looking and working through my “what if ” stuff, but at least now able to take the steps needed.

      3. ferrina*

        Pomodoro is also helpful. I’m ADHD, and I often have paralysis around certain tasks. Pomodoro is helpful in getting me to start the tasks- set the timer for 20 minutes, then sit down and do something. It doesn’t have to be good, it just has to be something that goes for 20 minutes. Then I get a 10 minute break.
        Usually by the end of 20 minutes, I’ve hit my groove and I’m ready to work on it for an hour. If not, I get my break and I don’t feel guilty about it. Sometimes I get halfway through my break, then inspiration strikes and suddenly I’m sketching a solutions for the problem/phrasing for what I’m trying to write.

        It won’t be a cureall for everyone, but it’s worth a try.

    4. ElizabethJane*

      So much this. Applying to one job takes me 5-6 hours (assuming I’m just starting my job search and have a lot of updating to do).

      Applying to every job after that takes 15-20 minutes, often less.

    5. Tess McGill*

      LW, it also seems from your letter that your work has effectively made you feel “lucky” to even have this position since it’s Very Unusual for you to be there. I suspect that’s also what’s keeping you in a frozen state: this imposter syndrome feeling. They are taking advantage of that and let yourself get fired up over that knowledge.

      1. MigraineMonth*

        When I was feeling guilty because I got a job above my qualifications, my mother told me that luck or privilege is how most people get their first big break. We pretend that it’s all about hard work and merit, but almost everyone who’s gotten ahead has done so because they applied just when someone was retiring and got bumped from “junior” to “senior”, or because they got a super-star manager who all the higher-ups listened to, or because their old coworker whose job they saved started working on a high-profile project. (Or, if you’re wealthy, it’s semi-formalized in legacy admissions, the “old-boys” network, prestigious colleges/internships, etc.)

        You got a lucky break and got into the field from an unusual background? Sure, plenty of people do that every day. What’s important is that you’re succeeding in it because you’re good at it, even without the supports/training most of your coworkers had.

    6. Quinalla*

      I have felt stuck like I couldn’t job hunt before, but really I was wrong. I can job hunt any time, start with seeing what is out there and getting your resume up to date. Then either get with a recruiter if that is a thing in your industry or start applying. You don’t have to go wild applying to a bunch of jobs, just maybe start with 2-3 and see what happens. As long as a degree isn’t required for licensing, typically once you have experience under your belt, a degree becomes a lot less of an issue. If it is required for licensing, it still won’t usually prevent you from getting another job in industry, it may just limit your growth.

      But yeah, get out there and see what happens. Start slow and ramp up as desired. You have a current job so you don’t have to spend tons of time on it.

    7. MassMatt*

      In addition, it helps to not look at the whole journey all at once and imagine things that could go wrong or might never happen. This is your self-doubt talking, and if you listen to it too much nothing will ever change.

      Instead of thinking “OMG a the job search is so huge and I need to do so many things I can’t deal with this I’m just going to watch TV” think of a couple things you can do each day and each week. Review your resume. Look at some listings. Think for an hour what kind of job you want. Send out a couple of applications.

      As you do these little things you will build momentum and realize this is doable. The big task is less intimidating when you break it down to many little tasks.

    8. Beth*

      Agreed! When I’m starting a new job hunt, the first few applications are the hardest. I’m so invested in them at that point, I want my materials to be perfect, I’m not quite sure I’m ready to dive in yet, I want to do just a little more research…if I let myself get caught in that swirl, I’ll never actually apply to anything! But if I just get started and send my not-perfect-but-fine resume to a few not-perfect-but-fine jobs, well, I’m launched and can tweak as needed from there.

  3. Viki*

    My kid likes to say her face has subtitles. As she’s getting to post secondary we’re working on taking and giving constructive feedback without body language being dismissive.

    Rolling your eyes at a coworker in a feedback loop is not professional. Don’t think about it as nice, this is like bare minimum professional work bits.

    2. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      One of the best things about having been remote for a gazillion years is that I have had lots of time to practice keeping my facial subtitles under control in a work setting. It takes a LOT for my eyebrows to slip their reins now.

    3. Productivity Pigeon*

      That’s a great expression! I’m gonna steal it!

      I’m a person with a LOT of subtitles but even I can contain it in a work setting.

      If I’m giving someone feedback, my goal is for them to actually be able to use it and mocking them, and the feedback process, is not conducive to that.

    4. Pastor Petty Labelle*

      Rolling your eyes at a coworker in a feedback loop is not professional.

      That’s it in a nutshell. Just because the person you are providing feedback to is not being professional in their work is no excuse for you not to be professional, LW1.

      Keep your own standards of professionalism up.

      Its possible this place is warping your sense of what’s professional. Time to see what other options you have since this place is not going to change.

    5. Ellis Bell*

      On the off chance OP really does struggle to mask their inner thoughts (as I do), you’ve got to go with method acting. Or do something beyond throwing your hands up. You have to actively try to think positive thoughts or at least neutral ones.

      1. duinath*

        Yep, LW 1, the more difficult you find it, the more important it is to practice it, imho. This is an incredibly important thing to be able to do, and can affect your relationships in big ways.

        Approach it with that level of importance. If it’s difficult, and not something you can just switch off; practice.

        When you’re giving someone feedback, prep beforehand. Decide what you’re going to say, decide *how* you’re going to say it, paying attention to basic common courtesy (hopefully this letter response and the comments have made that point clear) and then say it, privately, in front of a mirror.

        Do things like these at home, you don’t want people to overhear or catch you at it, but if it truly is difficult for you you must practice. Watch your own face when you say it, listen to how you sound, and then adjust based on common courtesy.

        There are some guides out there on basic courtesy and polite behaviour, but the main thing underlying most of them is to be kind. I can understand if that feels sexist, but usually that happens when women are expected to be *too* kind, and you are not close to that, yet.

        Good luck.

        1. Eldritch Office Worker*

          All of this. Practicing giving feedback is just as important as practicing for a big presentation or practicing for any other difficult conversation.

          And the distinction between kind and too kind is important. I expect the men I work with to be kind. There can be common missteps, where for instance men can get away with being kind-but-direct more than women can, and that’s something we should absolutely push back against. This isn’t that situation.

      2. Sunflower*

        I have trouble masking my inner thoughts (I hate it) but even I can refrain from deliberately rolling my eyes.

    6. Another Kristin*

      saw this referred to in an old book once as “a speaking countenance”. I have one too, but have developed at least some level of control over it!

      I’m sure LW#1 doesn’t roll their eyes when, IDK, talking to their own boss, or listening to their grandmother tell her favourite story for the millionth time. Being openly rude like this doesn’t only send the message that you have contempt for the person you’re speaking to, it says that you don’t even care enough to observe basic social norms.

    7. Spacewoman Spiff*

      Hahaha, this is fantastic description. And how wonderful that she’s got parents who will work with her on body language. When I was in college I had a boss who had to tell me to stop rolling my eyes in the office. She was, honestly, a horrible boss, but on this she was correct…it took me a little while to get a handle on it, but thank god I did because I just don’t know how you build a career if your body language is so clearly dismissive of the people you work with.

    8. A Significant Tree*

      In addition to all the great comments about how eye-rolling is rude, contemptuous, and unprofessional, there is power in being able to control your physical response to something negative. It’s a valuable skill for many situations. I used this to great effect with a few managers at a past job, one of whom would have been happy to see me cry when I got laid off.

      In my first job I got called out by my supervisor for reacting to (fair, not harsh) feedback by another manager in an obviously sulky way (arms crossed, looking down, terse responses). I got over myself and worked on being able to accept criticism without getting demonstrably defensive. If the situation had been somewhat reversed, I can’t imagine how demoralizing it would have been if the feedback from either the manager or supervisor had been accompanied by *them* rolling their eyes at me.

  4. Coverage Associate*

    #2 is in a better position than many, in my experience. They got sufficient warning that maybe there won’t be a time gap in coverage. I have seen new health benefits plans announced with the bare minimum notice required by law, and actually experienced much less notice than I am told was required by law.

    My coverage through my employer pays for these after the very high deductible is met. Before that, we were able to download a coupon code from the manufacturer and get $150 back for each $900 Rx. Once we met the deductible and started getting reimbursements, I set up savings accounts to save to meet the deductible next year.

    I have been mostly satisfied with our high deductible plans in the past, especially when the health savings account is considered, but we may switch to a lower deductible plan for 2025 due to anticipated life changes. If OP has a choice of plans for 2025, they should crunch all the numbers.

    1. Sloanicota*

      Yeah, I feel bad for everyone in this situation, but unfortunately it’s very common, and OP’s situation is better than most. It’s hard that we hammer on “health” when talking about weight, but basically the health insurance industry is saying weight alone is not enough to be prescribed these drugs (which are too expensive for most people to access out of pocket). I’m keeping my fingers crossed we’ll come up with cheaper generics or figure out how to pay for this, because most people I know would like to be on these drugs.

      1. Sharon*

        It’s not just weight loss drugs, either, though. I have arthritis and my doctor has been prescribing what are called biologic medicines for me for the last decade+. Biologics are VERY effective at controlling certain diseases like mine, but they are also VERY expensive so the insurance companies fight us tooth and nail every time the rx has to be renewed or changed. They’ve implemented Pharmacy Benefit Managers and sometimes also a thing called a copay maximizer (SaveonSP if you want to google one) that feel very much like they have the goal of making it so hard to get your meds that you give up and at the same time take as much money as they possibly can from the pharmaceutical companies. You might say “good, the pharmas are evil” but bigger picture, this is only contributing to the increasing costs of health care.

        1. GoodNPlenty*

          Yes! I’m now on Medicare but my last employer forced me to go through their health screening every year to qualify for the employer match for health care. It included a waist measurement which for us “apples” is a dreaded thing. I used to have to sit down with a “counselor” every year who would tell me to lose weight. That box checked, my insurance was good for another year. And this was just for my arthritis meds, my weight doesn’t qualify me for Weygovy etc.

          1. NotBatman*

            Yes. Botox is the only thing that helps my husband’s migraines, and three times now his insurance has decided all over again that Botox can only ever be elective despite multiple notes from multiple doctors. No wonder he has chronic migraines, given how much time and stress he has to expend fighting insurance companies.

      2. JMC*

        Well to be honest they were never supposed to be weight loss drugs but diabetes drugs. I took ozempic until the weightloss industry caused shortages. Then Mounjaro until the same thing happened. But that being said those drugs are known to cause gastroparesis which paralyzes the stomach…..and I think that was starting to happen to me when I did get my hands on mounjaro again. I was never hungry and felt nauseous constantly until I couldn’t take it anymore and quit using it. I feel much better off it. I can’t afford to not eat at all which is what these drugs end up doing to you.

        1. Archi-detect*

          I am on ozempic, lost 50 pounds and still have a normal if much reduced appetite. I am nauseous more often but I am unsure if that is the med or not, I still am sometimes when off the med. Im not saying it is a miracle cure or works for everyone but I have had great success with it

        2. Momma Bear*

          We just did the song and dance for open enrollment and one of my coworkers brought this up (on their own) as they were concerned that they would not get coverage for their Rx. I do not know if HR was able to negotiate that or not, but if I were the LW I’d look into all options, including paying out of pocket and using an Rx card. Their prescriber may have options for them to consider, including other treatment plans.

      3. goddessoftransitory*

        A new study says a full three quarters of the US adult population is now considered overweight or obese, and I’m sure those stats have had a bearing on these decisions. It’s insane that the majority of us can only afford health care through our work, and now the companies we work for apparently can’t afford it either!

        1. Dahlia*

          Tbf those are judged by BMI and one of the reasons BMI is considered incredibly flawed is because it was randomly changed in the 90s to make more people who were previously “normal” be “overweight”.

    2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      A lot of people don’t “need” these drugs by any reasonable medical definition, but use them for cosmetic reasons (drop those last stubborn 15 pounds). They have shady or compliant doctors who prescribe them. So the cost to insurance is ballooning, and these restrictions are a way to prevent that.

      Unfortunately, like a lot of restrictive measures in all facets of life, it punishes the innocent as much as it does the guilty.

      1. Floppy Ear Dog*

        There are a LOT of people with a lot more than 15 pounds to lose who would use them if they could afford them. “everyone” agrees that obesity is the #1 killer in the US, but obviously fat people just aren’t trying hard enough :::Eyeroll:::

        1. MigraineMonth*

          My dance teacher has an awesome Tik-Tok where she uses her 20 years of dance to teach joyful movement for bodies of any size. Because she’s obese and dares to be on the internet, she gets tons of body-shaming comments telling her she needs to exercise more (lol), eat salads, and lose 50lb immediately because they are “worried about her health”.

          It’s an interesting framing, given that my teacher is open about the extremely serious and frequently fatal health condition she has: anorexia nervosa.

      2. Somebody*

        While at some point years ago people were getting GLP-1 agonists paid for by insurance who perhaps were not medically obese or diabetic, those days are over. As far as I can tell now nearly all insurance plans that cover these drugs have strict criteria for coverage and I suspect that the few ones that don’t will probably institute prequalification criteria very soon.

        The people you hear about taking it to lose those last stubborn 15 pounds are paying out of pocket, usually via compounding pharmacies.

        (Been on Wegovy for 7 months, paid for by insurance, gone through the prequalification wringer twice, successful both times)

      3. Loona*

        And these drugs are not a lifetime cure. Sooner or later people have to get off them, unless prescribed for diabetes.

    3. T.N.H*

      There are a lot of options here too like prescription only insurance, secondary insurance, or bailing on your employer’s plan entirely and finding something on the marketplace (these vary widely based on where you are).

    4. Hazel*

      Significant cost issue and gross ‘it must be something you are doing’ attitude aside, they’re asking for a lot of personal data on their app. It’s offensive (‘just eat more vegetables’), asks for an exhausting amount of time and effort better spent managing the disease, and what the heck are they doing with all that personal data they now own on you. The whole thing is icky, smacks of fat shaming, and seeks to help the insurance company become even cheaper by using a mountain of free personal health data.

      1. Meep*

        I mean, I think it is a huge overstep for a company to get an app to decide who deserves to be on it, but right now it a hot thing for medical influencers to peddle and a lot of their own practices are shady af. I have seen so many people think there are no side effects because that is what an MD on Twitter is telling them in a bid to get them as a patient. It really comes down to which snake oil salesman you prefer – LW’s doctor or a doctor associated with an app.

    5. PCOS Girlie*

      Insulin-resistant PCOS-girlie here, newly on a GLP-1 to mitigate symptoms like insulin levels, glucose levels, and weight, and prescribed by my endocrinologist after literal YEARS of attempting other methods, and I got the same letter in the mail last week.

      Setting aside the security implications for a moment of having to install a third-party app on my phone, put a Bluetooth-enabled third party scale in my house and have it beam information to the app: in order to remain covered I have to log into this app EIGHT TIMES A MONTH to log weight, chat with a dietitian, do lessons, and post on the community board.

      It’s so damn infantilizing to me to suggest that by doing some Duolingo-esque lessons about calories I will suddenly be able to manage weight gain on my own, or that I only need to talk with THEIR dietitian to understand how my diet (which is unchanged) is causing (not) my weight.

      That’s not even to mention the philosophy OP2 mentions where the insurance company is convinced THEIR doctors know better than YOUR doctor. I understand the drugs are expensive but we all know these companies aren’t losing money, and it’s so damn disheartening to see real medical care compromised in pursuit of the almighty profit.

      1. Typity*

        Pretty clear the idea is to hound people until they give up, then claim they’re “not committed to their health.”

      2. SpaceySteph*

        Its also incredibly shortsighted and really echos the pre-ACA policies about birth control. You know what costs insurance hundreds of thousands of dollars? Pregnancy and Obesity. Reducing those things is actually a net win for insurers. But its all wrapped up in morality policing rather than medical decisionmaking.

      3. Gumby*

        I am reminded of the scene in “Good in Bed” where the facilitator of a weight loss group was shocked, shocked! that the entire group of women he was lecturing knew what a serving size of chicken was (it’s been a while since I read it – I may be off on details). As if *information* were the roadblock and not the hundreds of other factors, internal and external, that affect weight.

  5. LaminarFlow*

    I would be horrified, humiliated (and could only blame myself) and just completely embarrassed if my manager told me that employees say I’m rolling my eyes and projecting negative body language in conversation.

    Tbh, I would also expect to be terminated if I couldn’t show someone basic respect. Just….wow.

    1. Waving not Drowning*

      I was accused of a previous manager of rolling my eyes when she spoke. Problem is, I didn’t! It is not something that I do, at all, ever! We were talking as a team, and she wanted us to do a complete flip in a process, so I was trying to get my head around how we were actually implementing it – going through steps in my head, working out if I had any questions, but, in no way rolling my eyes, or even expressing an opinion!!!! She was the only one looking at me at the time, but, it was awful to be called out for doing something that I wasn’t.

      1. Missa Brevis*

        If we give your manager benefit of the doubt (which she may or may not deserve), for me sometimes “going through steps in my head” comes with a little upward flick of my eyes while I put the pieces together, which can look like an intentional eye roll if someone is really sensitive to that. If you think with your face at all like I do, I can see it being misinterpreted. That said, of course, the appropriate response is to check in and ask if you meant to roll your eyes, not jump straight to accusations.

        1. niknik*

          Had a colleague once, who had that tick to always look a the ceiling while talking to someone. So he would look at you while you were talking, then when he answered, his eyes would roll up. Might’ve been an eye contact thing, not sure. It was certainly subconscious, though, and not meant as a reaction to what you were saying. It made longer conversations a little strenuous/awkward, but i’m pretty sure he couldn’t help it, so i never mentioned it.

          1. Wayward Sun*

            I do that sometimes. It’s because I can’t organize my thoughts with the distraction of seeing another person staring at me waiting.

        2. Rusty Shackelford*

          Don’t know if this is true or not, but I’ve read that people tend to look off in one direction when they’re lying or trying to think of a lie, and another direction when they’re trying to remember something or figure something out. Of course I don’t remember which direction is supposedly “lying” and which one is “thinking,” but this would be awfully convenient if it turned out to be true.

          3. Nah*

            Yeah, that’s a debunked popsci “suspect profiling” myth. Which along with others (tics, no eye contact, stimming, etc) ~just so happens~ to convince people that those with disabilities just so happen to be guilty more then neurotypical or able-bodied suspects.

        3. Grey Coder*

          I also look up and to the side when I am thinking. I now try to stretch this out (which I hope reads more as “thinking” than “rolling”) and, if appropriate, say something to reinforce the “thinking” message.

          A couple of times I have said on Zoom calls “I am not rolling my eyes at you, there is a spider on the ceiling and I’m just keeping an eye on it”.

      2. Freya*

        As a short person, I have most commonly been accused of rolling my eyes when someone tall is standing that bit too close and my alternative to looking up with just my eyes is standing with an uncomfortable angle to my neck

    2. The Prettiest Curse*

      Another thing about eye rolling that this OP may want to consider is that it may, by itself, be making people less receptive to feedback. If someone rolled their eyes at me while giving me feedback, I’d assume it was their way of conveying “you’re an idiot, you suck at this job and you’re not going to do this anyway, so what’s the point?” If you wouldn’t say that out loud, don’t convey it with your body language.

      1. Worldwalker*

        Definitely. If someone is rolling their eyes at me, I’ll assume their words are only pro-forma, and the real feedback is in the body language. And that body language is really rude. I wouldn’t be listening to what they were saying — I’d be trying to get out of there as fast as possible.

        Also … the OP said these are people who don’t report to her. Is she in fact giving them feedback in an official capacity, or is she just being bossy to colleagues?

        1. tommy*

          i was wondering that too! why is LW giving feedback? did her manager ask her to? she didn’t mention it being part of her role nor specifically assigned to her. that said, it doesn’t sound as if anyone told her to stop giving feedback, only to stop giving it obnoxiously… but then, who asked her that? are they in charge either? might they be the people at whom she eye-rolled or peers of those people? a clearer picture of everyone’s role would be useful.

        2. Learn ALL the things*

          Sometimes in my line of work, you’ll do a project and the expert who will be reviewing it is not your direct supervisor. So the expert will review your paper to give feedback and make suggestions. LW may have been assigned a similar role in her org.

      2. MK*

        I am also questioning how appropriate giving the feedback is in the first place. Maybe OP is giving feedback about specific work that directly affects their own work, but from the letter I could also assume they had taken it upon themselves to criticize their coworkers performance in general. Which isn’t really their place, if they aren’t these people’s manager.

        1. Myrin*

          I was thinking that! These are colleagues and the two OP deems especially hopeless “are both below [her] in rank, but don’t report to [her]” so – does OP even have standing to correct them?
          It’s possible that the projects she talks about or the basic procedures the coworkers don’t understand directly impact OP’s work or are even things under OP’s purview but… it kinda doesn’t read to me like that’s the case, actually.

          1. Great Frogs of Literature*

            I don’t think we have enough information to judge. I don’t manage anyone, but there are several people on my team who are below me in rank but don’t report to me that I would give feedback to (and contexts in which it would be appropriate for me to give feedback to same-title peers, perhaps even people with longevity seniority).

            It’s worth asking if LW should be giving these people feedback, but there are many roles where that’s normal and expected.

            1. Myrin*

              Hence my second paragraph! Totally possible but honestly, the way the whole letter is written makes me lean in the other direction.

      3. AnneCordelia*

        Yes. If someone rolls their eyes at me, they’ve just tanked any chance that I’ll actually listen to their feedback —even if it would have been legitimate feedback otherwise.

      4. Six for the truth over solace in lies*

        Given this:

        But there are now a couple (of the dozens of colleagues I work with) where I don’t have hope that their performance gaps are coachable.

        I think it’s pretty clear that she does think exactly what you would interpret: what’s the point? She’s not accidentally appearing contemptuous about their ability to follow through, the contempt is real. She’s displaying disrespectful body language as a direct response to not having respect for them.

        Honestly, I’m not sure there’s a way forward besides getting herself out of a position where she’s providing feedback to people she is scornful of. In addition to being rude and unkind, it’s frankly counterproductive and liable to worsen things.

        1. MigraineMonth*

          The other option is to understand that part of the job is to interact well with colleagues and to change the way you treat them. Whether that means learning to keep a neutral expression while continuing to resent them, or reframing the situation (e.g. “not my circus, not my monkeys, it’s not really my problem if they aren’t meeting expectations”) so you are less resentful, it definitely is possible.

          It turns out that a lot of things are possible when you realize your job is on the line.

    3. Dark Macadamia*

      I really thought there was going to be some reason why it was acceptable and the title was a bait and switch… but no, they’re really just openly and knowingly rolling their eyes!

    4. Worker Bee*

      I get the instinct to be disamayed by a team member who you feel is letting you down but at the end of the day the vast majority of us are working because we want to pay our housing costs! Imagine showing up to work because you need to survive and being met with that type of ccondescension.

    6. Falling Diphthong*

      In fairness, the office has established it is not a place that is going to fire anyone.

      That’s always the problem with these “How can I get a job at one of these places that never fires anyone?” It’s not actually pleasant to be surrounded by coworkers who would have been fired anywhere else.

      1. Six for the truth over solace in lies*

        It takes a very specific kind of person to be happy at a company that doesn’t fire anyone. I’ve known a few people like that, and they generally have to disconnect completely and not care at all about what goes on—including being willing to say and genuinely believe “I don’t care if things are unfair or go badly—even if my own projects go badly or fail because of my unfireable coworkers—because I’m not going to be fired for bad work either.”

        I know some people who’ve done it to fund creative work that they do care about it, but you really have to be willing and able to just not care much about every part of your job. Most people can’t be happy doing so.

    7. Sloanicota*

      Take this as a sign you’re burned out, OP, even if you don’t realize it. That’s what happened to me in a past role. I got some feedback about my behavior that made me realize a) wow yes I really did do that and b) it seemed completely out of character for me. It made me realize how much I was struggling with the culture of that job and the constant upsets and changes.

    8. DivergentStitches*

      There are some folks who struggle with body language, and they don’t deserve to be terminated without a conversation that what they’re doing is unacceptable. I am one of those people. For me, it’s not a lack of basic respect, it’s a brain thing.

      1. Observer*

        I know I am very late to the party. But I had to respond to one key thing you said.

        You are 100% correct that someone should not be fired without getting a chance to try to correct their behavior!

        The problem here is that the LW *is* being given the chance and her reaction is that she *does not have a problem to fix*. Not “I struggle with this, how do I fix it and convince my boss to give me some time?” But “Why is anyone even asking me about it? Sexism!”

        So, what people are saying is that *if someone refuses to make those changes*, then they are legitimately going be facing serious job repercussions. And that they should because it’s one thing to give a person who *wants* to change a chance to do so and another to let someone just keep on being rude.

    5. Testing*

      That was amazing!!

      (I don’t follow media much so for me Tracey Ullman was a pop start from my childhood…)

    9. darsynia*

      Thank you for sharing this! I want to validate your instincts to warn for that other stuff and thank you for the consideration.

    10. Slow Gin Lizz*

      “Mein Chancellorette” lol. Now I’m realizing that my propensity for eye-rolling (which, btw is absolutely 100% not involuntary) might be genetic from my German side.

  7. Waving not Drowning*

    LW4 – been there, done that, and ended up changing jobs :-)

    In my case, I finally reached my limit (having 2 weeks of work because the thought of returning was giving heart pounding anxiety), and I reached out to my network and let them know that I was looking for a change (they already knew the micromanaging manager that I worked for – they had seen her in action). I was worried that I would be jumping from one bad situation to another, and I didn’t want to lose the flexibility/work arrangements that my current employer offers, plus, we have a really competitive pay for the area/my skills level, so I wanted to stay here if I could. Luckily one had an opening that she could recommend me for, and I checked out the management style of that department head, and I jumped to her team. It was amazing! Having a manager who presumes compentency in her team is just so good! It did wonder for my confidence!

  8. Wolf*

    > Note that while we’ve received company-wide emails touting this new amazing benefit, the part about weight loss medications has only been sent quietly via snail mail to the people currently taking them.

    Does that mean your emplyoer knows what medication you take? Or did these letters come from the insurance?

    1. Adultiest Adult*

      If the company self-insures, which some large companies do, they essentially create their own insurance plan under the auspices of a major insurer, and as a result they have a lot of latitude to decide what is and isn’t covered, and at what level. Although it might say Blue Cross on the insurance card (to pick a well-known national example), the coverage isn’t dictated by Blue Cross itself, but by what the company is willing to pay.

        1. doreen*

          Yes, self-funded is the same as self-insured. They both mean that United Healthcare or Blue Cross or whatever name is on the card is not actually providing insurance, they are administering the plan ( including processing claims. )

      2. MsMaryMary*

        Self-funded plans are subject to HIPAA protections. That is probably why OP received a letter. The pharmacy benefits manager identified who was taking one of these medications for weight loss, and sent a communication to them instead of it coming from the HR or benefits team.

        There are other laws that dictate what self funded plans cover, like ACA and Mental Health Parity, and the insurance administrator is usually the one performing prior authorizations and setting medical criteria for certain procedures. Self funded plans have more flexibility on what they cover, but please don’t think someone in benefits is deciding if you can get a knee replacement.

        1. Learn ALL the things*

          We had a similar change to prescription coverage in a prior job, and I received a letter from our insurance company telling me my asthma medication would no longer be covered. I don’t know if anybody else got a similar letter, because I don’t know if anybody else was on that particular medication, but I was glad to have received it so I could reach out to my doctor and start working on alternatives.

          It sucks for OP and their colleagues that their company is putting up barriers to receiving treatment, but the actual notification process was pretty standard.

        2. MassMatt*

          These drugs are often prescribed for other things. Ozempic was and is used to control diabetes, weight loss was an incidental benefit. How does a pharmacist know whether the prescription is for weight loss or diabetes? Prescriptions say what drug, how much, and how often, not what the purpose is.

          This is yet another example of the awful consequences of having health insurance come through your employer. The thought of your employer knowing exactly who has what diseases or disorders and what medications they are using is terrifying.

          1. Doreen*

            I’m not saying the pharmacist or the pharmacy benefit manager always knows the reason – but they sometimes do. My pharmacist knows I’m taking trulicity for diabetes because of other prescriptions.

          2. GigglyPuff*

            To be fair on paper you are supposed to be able to tell based on the drug name. Ozempic was created for diabetics and when the weight loss aspect proved to be so fruitful they created Wegovy for weight loss only. But then there was a shortage and I think it was easier for doctors to prescribe/get access to Ozempic which lead to a bigger shorter as it became popular and also caused confusion among the names so now most people don’t know Ozempic is supposed to be only for diabetics.

          3. Nynaeve*

            Potentially because the dosages are different. Also, in many cases, the pharmaceutical companies have one brand name for the lower dose one meant for diabetes (ex. Ozempic) and a different brand name for the higher dose weight loss version (ex. Wegovy). Wegovy is not currently approved for use to treat Type 2 Diabetes, so anyone on that specific medication would be easy to identify. I’m sure it’s the same for the other GLP-1s on the market.

            1. Wayward Sun*

              This is true, but it’s worth noting that once a drug is approved doctors are free to prescribe it “off label” for other conditions.

              1. Boof*

                Only if someone (insurance, patient, or company) will pay for it – doesn’t matter what we recommend/write if no one can/will do it

                1. Wayward Sun*

                  Right, I was just addressing the Ozempic vs. Wegovy distinction. It doesn’t really matter in terms of prescribing practices.

          4. Shiny Penny*

            MassMatt— Not disputing your final conclusion in any way, but just as a data point:
            2 out of 3 of my dog’s long term mental health medications DO state the purpose on the label of the pill bottles. They state “for anxiety.” Those are both PRN. The third one that doesn’t have a “reason” printed on it is fluoxetine.
            The fluoxetine is given on a set daily schedule and the other two are PRN, so I guess that’s the difference?

            1. Boof*

              yes definitely if you are writing something “PRN” (which means as needed) there’s a specification of PRN /what/

          5. SpaceySteph*

            Medical coding would include diagnosis (either of diabetes or obesity) along with the prescription. I don’t think a pharmacist at your local CVS has that info, but the insurance company definitely does.

  9. MPerera*

    Wow, $100 from a boss sounds amazing. My manager gives everyone a $10 gift card. Then again, the first boss I ever had gave me the following present on December 24 : “Since it’s Christmas Eve, you can go home ten minutes early.”

    2. Account*

      One time, at a meeting, my boss said “Everyone be sure to check your boxes before you leave; there’s an end-of-year gift for you.” It was a chocolate bar. I was disappointed!

      1. Sloanicota*

        TBH OP might actually consider something like a chocolate bar if she discovers the past gives were self funded and makes the (difficult but I think ultimately correct) decision not to carry on the tradition herself.

        1. Rusty Shackelford*

          Yes, LW, if you decide not to continue the gifts (and that would not be a bad decision) it would be a nice transition gesture to provide small snacks for the office.

        2. ferrina*

          If OP can afford it, I think it is a nice tradition to carry on. Especially if the team is young or underappreciated by the company. Even if it’s a $25 giftcard or a chocolate bar, it can help.
          (of course, if it’s not in OP’s budget, then don’t do this and do a verbal appreciation/let people leave early).

    3. Alicent*

      I wish I could have gotten a gift card from my boss at my last job! He owned the place and we were all required to chip in $15 for a gift card for HIM as a thank you for employing us so he didn’t have a tantrum (I hope that stopped when his main minion retired), but we usually got nothing or some company branded apparel were supposed to wear to work. Heck this guy even tried to steal a gift basket a vendor sent for me for giving a presentation to his clients when she was sick. Scrooge tried to claim it was actually for him for offering my assistance. I did stand my ground on that one and say I had already opened it at home and taken it apart when my coworkers said I should share it with everyone.

    4. dulcinea47*

      We used to get that from the governor. (I work for the state) Everyone go home half an hour early, they would announce to an empty room b/c everyone had already used their leave time to go home.

    5. Jeans are not a reward*

      At a previous job, the only reward staff ever got for anything was a sticker that allowed us to wear jeans to work, even though they were usually restricted by the dress code. It didn’t matter what you did to merit recognition, the only thing you would ever get was permission to wear jeans.

      Our annual Christmas gift was an email from the deputy director on December 23rd giving us permission to wear jeans on Christmas Eve.

        1. Jeans are not a reward*

          There has previously been a charitable campaign where staff were allowed to donate via a payroll deduction and as thanks, receive permission to wear jeans once a week. Then one year they announced that even though they were still doing the charitable donations, the jeans reward was being revoked and people were super mad about it. So then they said they would start giving causal day passes as part of the employee recognition program to make up for it. Within about a year, casual day passes had become the entire employee recognition program.

          1. The rich get richer...and jeans*

            I worked at a hospital that had this kind of thing (raising money for the hospital itself) but it was only if you donated above a certain amount that was unreasonably high for a lot of people. And if you were wearing jeans (and I think an “I donated” sticker) you could potentially win some other perk if whoever was running this saw you.

            So it was a fun day of highly paid doctors and upper admins being comfortable and winning prizes while everyone else dressed normally and tried to not be bitter.

    6. Sunflower*

      One of my old work places gave $50 but it’s from the company. That’s one thing I miss about that company.

      Each supervisor also usually give a little gift out of their own pocket. Typically chocolates, candles, or something equally generic. One boss gave each of their employees a single pocket pack of tissues. Not even a whole box with 128 sheets that you can get from the dollar store. LOL

    7. biobotb*

      Once the VP of my department gave everyone Christmas socks. I wear a women’s size seven, but got two very large men’s socks. And they weren’t even the same size. Thank you?

      1. GoodNPlenty*

        One hospital I worked at gave as a “holiday bonus” a 50 cent off coupon at the cafeteria. I worked nights and it was closed. Gee thanks.

        1. Summer*

          We are fortunate and receive a Christmas bonus check that is more than my usual paycheck but my husband for years had to go in on a gift for his boss that totaled several hundred dollars. I kept harping that gifts should flow down and not up but they didn’t want to risk her wrath. The stories I could tell – worst boss of the decade, hands down! Fortunately he now owns his own business and there is no more of that foolishness. Gifts only flow down now :)

  10. Workaholic*

    LW #4: I believe a person should always keep up their resume and apply for jobs now and then, even if you’re not seriously looking. Keep in practice, a bit info gathering, plus you never know! I actually had this discussion with my boss during my performance review.

    Though believing it’s a great idea and doing it are vastly different. I’ve been at my job 11 years, and my resume is on an old computer I’ve not touched in 8 years or so. My boss feels the same way – but hasn’t touched hers in 4 years.

    1. Sloanicota*

      I actually agree with you on that. Ideally you would almost always be keeping an ear out for the perfect next job and not get so rusty on job-searching that the idea is really paralyzing. Companies change, bosses change, these days you probably don’t want to be too beholden to staying in one place.

  12. BellaStella*

    Eye rolling is also seen as bullying. In a training we had at work last year on types of bullying this was mentioned. My grandboss did roll her eyes at me too and it was only partly addressed as sadly she is still in her role and still not terrific.

    1. Allonge*

      I would be a bit careful with this (maybe I am misunderstanding your point though).

      Eyerolling is rude and certainly can be part of a bullying behavior. But I would not expect (or really, want) that we go directly from ‘X rolled their eyes at me’ to ‘X is bullying me and needs to be fired’. It undercuts the seriousness of bullying.

      Which is not to say I don’t believe your grandboss is a bad manager!

      1. I didn't say banana*

        A key part of bullying is that it is repeated – if someone regularly rolls their eyes at you, it would meet the definition.
        Signed, a nerd who did her psychology thesis on bullying

        1. Myrin*

          If they were being perfectly normal to you otherwise? I’m surprised to hear that. I’d personally categorise that as “strangely rude regarding this one thing” but it’d never occur to me to call it “bullying” absent any other bullying behaviour. I didn’t know it would be qualified that way in psychology.

          1. Irish Teacher.*

            I don’t know about psychology but it definitely could be bullying depending on context. If somebody rolled their eyes every time you spoke and didn’t do that to anybody else, even if they were otherwise completely normal and polite to you, it would almost certainly be a deliberate way of saying “I think you are stupid and hate hearing you talk and wish you would shut up and go away but I can’t say anything for fear of getting in trouble so I’ll be outwardly nice to you while making it quite clear I’m only doing it to avoid being fired,” which yeah, I would think was bullying.

            As a teacher, I would say that in real life bullying is often far subtler than it is portrayed on TV and in books. It often is largely things like eye rolling, sighing, nobody sitting beside a person, being overly polite in a way that sounds patronising (“oh you got a D in your exam. Well done. It’s really great that you passed,” said in a tone that implies, “I’m amazed you passed. That’s much better than I expected you to do”), that sort of thing.

            1. Myrin*

              I mean, I have been bullied as a child, so I know what “real life bullying” is like, which is exactly why I’m hesitant to call it that (in my experience, it’s a combination of exactly the things you mention in your second paragraph, not one single behaviour) but I guess in the end, it doesn’t really make sense to get granular about it.

              I still really don’t think you can simply say “eye rolling is also seen as bullying” without any qualifiers, but possibly the most important thing in that regard is that it’s incredibly unlikely that someone is friendly, helpful, and cheerful with you but then simultaneously also rolls their eyes in a dismissive way (instead of, say, a tic) whenever you interact.

              1. Irish Teacher.*

                Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that you weren’t familiar with bullying, but I can see how my comment came across that way. So I apologise.

                1. Myrin*

                  Thanks, I appreciate it. As someone who always likes your comments and insights, I knew you didn’t mean it that way, but that phrasing always makes me kinda testy. No harm done!

              2. Ellis Bell*

                I think if someone is doing something as out-right rude as eye rolling, (at someone, rather than about something) there is probably other negative body language as well.

            2. Cthulhu's Librarian*

              … teachers thinking that way was how I got three of my ribs broken before I hit puberty. It was how I got stabbed with a pencil 47 times on a single field trip bus ride – because clearly my bully and I were actually friends! After all, they were always sitting right next to me.

              The majority of bullying descriptions were written by people who either survived it or perpetrated it. How DARE you try to trial-size them when you’re supposed to be the person watching for it and putting a stop to it.

              2. New Jack Karyn*

                That’s not at all what Irish Teacher was doing. I am sorry that happened to you, but I’ve read her posts for a while now, and find her to be measured, empathic, and insightful.

  13. kanomi*

    LW#4: You want to do it, but you’re procrastinating for some reason. Try breaking the task into little chunks:

    Day 1: review open jobs, bookmark faves
    Day 2: review this and other sites’ resume posts
    Day 3: update resume
    Day 4: submit to faves
    Day 5: reward self with cookie :)
    etc.

    1. Lisa*

      Good advice. There’s also no shame in asking for help from friends, family, professionals (for pay), or even ChatGPT on updating the resume. Even if you end up having to edit everything they do, you’ll be a lot further along than not having those steps.

      For me when I’m procrastinating this hard about something, it’s usually because there is an unacknowledged fact that I am unwilling to face. Sounds like for you it could be the fear that you are indeed stuck with the awful boss for a long time if you want to stick it out in this career. If that’s so, following out the thoughts to their full conclusion can be helpful. What is the worst that can happen? Say you update your resume, apply for every job in the field, and don’t get a new job. What does that mean? Is it staying at the awful job? Or is it changing fields? What would you need to do to be able to stay at the job? What would you need to do to change fields? What would you need to do to be able to be more viable in the field if you don’t find a job? How long would that take? Is it even possible? Are there equivalents or near-ish training/education that makes you look better on paper?

      The other piece of advice I always try to remind myself of is to not reject yourself before the other person has the chance to. Make them do that work, rather than doing it yourself. :)

      Best of luck on escaping the bad situation!

    2. bamcheeks*

      This is good advice, but LW, if this is the part you’re struggling with, I suggest deliberately giving yourself a 2-4 weeks of “Day 1”. Just browse job postings, without any pressure to apply right now, and at the same time browse the LinkedIn profiles of people in your industry and in a similar role or on a similar pathway and see what they are doing or have done. Try and visualise yourself in that role and think about what you’d be doing, and whether you’d enjoy it or not. If you have real difficulty imagining that role, contact a few people and ask if you can ask them a few questions about it. Don’t apply to anything yet— just gather information and actively think about it and let it all sit for a bit. Maybe make a spreadsheet of positions you could apply for and see whether one or two really grab you.

      This will all be super useful information when you do start applying, and in the mean time it can just help your head get over the scary unknownness of and hopefully start to be a little excited by the possibilities!

    4. turtle writer*

      As someone who went through an extensive job search last year, I chuckle at one day to “update resume”. It took me a good week for every job. Picking ad choosing which skills to include, rewriting my resume to highlight the skills, etc. I admire faster writers!

      1. dulcinea47*

        Same! Update resume takes multiple days… also write cover letters tailored to individual jobs… it doesn’t go that fast.

        1. MassMatt*

          OK so break it down more–spend 1 hr per day, or rewrite/review ONE of your prior roles each day. Make it manageable. Once you get the resume done (use Alison’s tips!), revising and tailoring it and cover letters for jobs you apply to will be much faster.

      2. MsM*

        I keep a master resume of everything I think might be relevant to the kind of jobs I want, so I can just pick the 3-5 bullet points that work best for whatever I’m applying for.

        1. Freya*

          This is what I do, too – the master resume is about ten times as long as the one I actually send, because it’s got ALL the clever wordings I’ve chosen over the years to highlight different things and imply slightly different focuses. Deleting bits instead of adding bits means I’m much less likely to let a typo through, as well.

      3. Hlao-roo*

        One resume writing tip is to have a “master resume” with lots of bullet point accomplishments for every single job you’ve ever had. The “master resume” never gets submitted to a job application, but it makes the “rewrite” process for any one job application must faster because it’s mostly a matter of deleting the un-needed bullet points/jobs instead of writing new material.

        Of course, a lot of work goes into creating/updating the master resume and that will take more than one day. Once my master resume is up-to-date, “tailor resume for specific job ad” usually takes me an hour or less.

        Good luck with your search, OP4!

    5. Sloanicota*

      When I’m really struggling to get over the hill on something that could be completed in one sitting, I take it to the Mexican cantina at lunch time (or take an afternoon off and head to the cantina) to do the thing I’m afraid of in a pleasant setting, and when I’m done, I order a margarita.

    6. Person from the Resume*

      Job hunting can be a difficult and long process (that large parts are of it are out of our control) so it is absolutely something many, many people want to procrastinate. Perfectly human reaction.

      Like kanomi says, small steps, but also in my experience getting started is the hardest. “Oh, rewriting my resume is going to be SO HARD” that I procrastinate. And it’s not easy but often once I do it, it wasn’t as hard as I imagined. Figure out a time and place to get started. Remind yourself of other times you procrastinated something and after you finished you realized it was easier than you expected and you felt such relief that it was done. You have opportunities to experience that with your job hunt. Finish your “generic” resume. Find a job you like, modify your resume for the job and submit, Find another job, Get interviews, …. until you are hired for a new job,

    7. ABK*

      yup, when I have a daunting task in front of me that’s super anxiety provoking for lots of ambiguous and emotional reasons, just focus on one step at a time.
      1. find a job to apply for and apply for it within 3 days. Make a date with a supportive friend for 2 evenings and commit to spending 1 evening (2 hours max) updating your resume and other materials. Spend the second evening (again, 2 hrs max), applying. Have your friend there to keep you accountable and on task.
      The goal is to apply for the job and just rip that band aid off, not the get and take the job. So don’t over think it and just get that first task done. Then do it again (maybe with fewer supports), and again, and again.
      – You could also commit to doing 2 networking meetings to talk about your background and what barriers you might actually have
      – you could commit to buying and reading Allison’s book.
      – etc etc etc. just one tiny step at a time.

    8. Tea Monk*

      Yea and remember to have self soothing activities as well. Procrastinating is often an emotional regulation thing. I tend to spiral if I look at too many jobs at once ( they are all asking for unicorns still) so keep it small til you get used tp it

    9. Smithy*

      I will say that personally when going through a very difficult job hunt – I went through the practice of a daily “little carrot/big carrot”. Essentially doing work all day and then job hunting – or saving it for the weekend and then losing my weekend to job applications – it was all so difficult that the carrot/stick method was not going to work. Being at my job was stick enough, but little carrot/big carrot worked better.

      Essentially it would be versions of situations like “if you apply for one job tonight after work, you get a glass of nice wine vs a glass of cheap wine”. Essentially going out and getting yourself like two bags of candy, one of them is your favorite or something fancy and the other is more basic but still something you like. Basically, the reward needed to happen either way, but the reward would be plussed up if I did what I needed to do.

  14. Jackalope*

    The weight loss drug not being covered is so frustrating. Our country penalizes people for being overweight, refuses them medical care and won’t offer treatments besides “lose weight first”, and otherwise gives garbage treatment. And I don’t think that weight loss is the end-all and be-all of health, but I can understand someone wanting to focus on it. But then after all of the bullying about weight, the insurance companies…. don’t want to cover the weight loss meds? Make this make sense to me.

      1. tommy*

        there kind of is a moral issue here — not the way you were joking about it, but in the sense that these particular weight loss drugs are diabetes meds, and now that diet culture has made so many non-diabetic people demand them for weight loss (and made so many doctors push them on or offer them to non-diabetic people for weight loss), diabetic people often can’t get them, because they’re out of stock.

        1. allathian*

          That’s a supply problem. The patent on semaglutide, the active ingredient in drugs like Wegovy and Ozempic, will expire in 2026. Subsidiary patents will expire by 2033. You can bet that a tidal wave of generic alternatives is going to hit the market fairly soon after that.

          I’ve been fat for most of my adult life and some people, including medical professionals, clearly consider it a moral issue. “You’d lose weight if you had the self-discipline not to eat too much.” is what they’re implying if not saying.

          The vast majority of people who manage to lose a significant amount of weight by restricting their diet will sooner or later regain it and then some. I’ve lost more than 10% of my starting weight 3 times in my life. Now I’d be happy to be at the weight I was when I started my first diet, but it’s not going to happen without medical support.

        2. Cat Tree*

          They’re not just diabetes meds though. Lots and lots of medications have multiple uses.

          It’s not really a good game for you to judge which medical conditions are more worthy or deserving of this medication.

        3. Malarkey01*

          People who are prescribed these drugs are also at very high risk of developing diabetes and suffering from or at risk of heart disease, stroke, heart attack, multiple bone and muscle diseases, and multiple diseases affecting various organs. Getting into a “who has the most deserving illness” is not a winning argument.
          We should all be on the side of there is a drug that makes people better and live healthier lives, let’s make sure everyone that needs it gets it.

        4. Not a moral issue*

          This is no longer true. The supply issues have largely been resolved and these drugs are available everywhere. What’s more, the ones prescribed specifically for weight loss are not the same as the diabetic medications. Please be aware of this because this talking point is often used to bash the people taking them, such as framing it as a moral issue, when that has not been the case for quite some time now.

          1. Typity*

            Novo Nordisk has programs for the uninsured or those whose insurance doesn’t cover Wegovy that can — if all the signs and portents are favorable and the stars align — get the price down to $650 for a 28-day supply.

            For whatever that’s worth.

            1. Freya*

              As a side note, socialised healthcare in Australia means that if you meet the criteria (diabetic), Ozempic is AU$42/month. If you don’t meet the criteria, so it’s non-PBS or private prescription, it’s about AU$132/month. (If you can get it, since we’re next expected to have replenished stocks in Australia on 31 December 2024)

              Wegovy arrived here in August, and costs around AU$460 per month. This will probably come down a bit when supply and demand stabilises.

        5. Tea Monk*

          Doctors do often recommend them for everything under the sun. Unrelenting depression? Try wegovy( tm) And they are said to cure everything from sleep apnea to Alzheimers. It’s not just looking bad in a swimsuit

    2. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      Insurance companies use their statistics to estimate relative costs of healthcare with/without meds & treatments that are not currently standard or essential for health.

      Since these are very expensive drugs, I expect they’ve predicted that their cost is more than the extra costs – if any! – that their statistics indicate for heavy people without diabetes or other conditions associated with high bodyfat, although high enough BMI to be prescribed these drugs by some doctors for weight loss alone.

      If there is indeed a shortage of these meds, then it is reasonable to prioritise them for those who need it for diabetes etc.

      Of course, anyone whose opinion of people is influenced by weight or body shape is an AH.

      1. BethRA*

        The irony, of course, is that we’ve been told for years that obesity costs billions and billions per year in medical costs annually. Guess those costs weren’t really all they were made out to be.

    3. Data is cool*

      It doesn’t make sense. These are basically wonder drugs that can improve outcomes for a very common, serious health condition that has eluded decades of attempts to manage it and we’re restricting access?? They’d probably reduce healthcare costs in the long run.

      1. Cat Tree*

        Insurance companies don’t care about long-term savings. They don’t care if this medication improves outcomes but they’re banking on you being with a different employer or having Medicare before you have the expensive health outcomes from being denied treatment now.

        1. Sloanicota*

          This. Sadly, the impacts are too longterm for insurance to make money. I have a friend wrestling with this very issue and it’s brutal because her doctor is ALWAYS on her about the terrible, terrible health impacts of being overweight – yet apparently there’s not “enough” health impacts for these drugs to be a covered prescription :(

          Real question – we always hear everything is so much better in Europe/Scandinavia – I tried to google if their system covers it for people who “just” need to lose weight but didn’t come up with a solid answer. My guess is no.

          1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

            imo European healthcare is excellent for treating actual health issues, but more cautious about experimental ones and definitely not as willing to provide treatment merely to improve appearance unless there are also health benefits sometime in the future.

            Being more conservative about new treatments is understandable e.g. in the UK almost the entire population could be affected if there are adverse side effects to something dished out by the NHS. So I’d expect an NHS doctor to prescribe a paid WW or other diet or gym course rather than relatively new drugs – especially v expensive ones – maybe with possible longterm side effects.

            btw, one major difference is how much power / freedom drug companies have in the US e.g. When I selected “USA” in my VPN, I was shocked out of my skull to see a drug company ad for a pneumonia vaccine on Pluto, just like they were pushing a new choc bar. I’d only expect ads for vaccines or any other prescribed meds to be govt public health announcements.

            1. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

              Pharmaceutical ads in the US are awful and plentiful. Lots of shiny happy people living their best lives because they’re taking something … and barely a word about the condition that they’re treating. Just “ask your doctor about NewMedX”.

            2. Sloanicota*

              Yeah I had a UK visitor several years ago and he was quite surprised by the number of drug ads on the TV, and also weirdly IIRC, he said the last ten seconds (with all the warnings) was cut off on ads he’d seen in the UK, I guess it’s because the system will decide what risks are appropriate/not rather than the consumer.

              1. Rusty Shackelford*

                The warnings are only there in the U.S. because they’re legally required. No advertiser is going to say “Warning! This drug may cause horrible side effects!” unless they have to.

          2. bamcheeks*

            Semaglutide has been approved by NICE, so it’s available on the NHS. You can Google “NHS semaglutide” and find the prescribing guidelines.

            1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

              The NHS guidelines I found require at least 1 related health condition plus previous lack of success with conventional methods:

              “Patients are eligible for treatment within a specialist weight management service if they have at least one weight-related comorbidity, such as hypertension or cardiovascular disease, and either a BMI of at least 35 or a BMI of 30 to 34.9, provided they meet the criteria for referral to specialist weight management services, including that conventional treatment has been unsuccessful.”

          3. Katherine*

            In the UK, basically no – there are so many hoops to jump through it’s pretty much impossible to get on the NHS. But I think we are fortunate that it is cheaper to buy here privately through an online service than it is in the US.

            It’s challenging, the cost to an already struggling NHS would be significant, but I’m someone who has constantly been told by doctors that every health issue is because of my weight, and this drug is the only thing that has worked for me.

        2. Worldwalker*

          One of the worst things in our medical history was the transition from non-profit to for-profit insurance companies. As non-profits, their goal was to provide the most care at the lowest cost. As for-profit, their goal is to provide the least care at the highest cost. That’s the whole point of a for-profit institution.

          Insurance (and hospitals) should have remained non-profit. There are places where profit-seeking is appropriate, but also places where it is not.

            1. JB*

              Prior to the 1950s, health insurance in the US was pretty much exclusively offered by Blue Cross/Blue Shield, which was founded as a nonprofit. (They switched over to for-profit plans in the 1990s after the market became saturated with for-profit competitors.)

      2. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

        But is just being very fat, without diabetes or any other health condition, something that significantly increases health costs later?

        Are there are any longterm scientific studies on subjects that start as “fat but healthy”? I’ve read that at least for BMI 25-30 there is NO proven statistically significant effect on health or costs. Any reliable studies on say BMI>40?

        If being fat alone increases costs, then it’s understandable why employers & health insurance companies keep pushing weight loss for those above the limits where this starts to be significant, but if not proven then imo they should stop nagging.

        1. Sloanicota*

          This would be an amazing turnaround since in the past people who feel they are “fat but healthy” have been trying to advocate for themselves and usually being told my all and sundry, including the medical establishment, that they need to lose weight, and that all their health symptoms are probably weight related.

        2. Caramel & Cheddar*

          Most of the “fat” studies often demonstrate that differences in patient outcomes often come from the prejudice people experience in trying to seek medical help while fat, i.e. conditions that progress much further along and thus cost more to treat because instead of treating the patient with the symptoms they presented with, the patient is told to come back in a year when they’ve lost some weight.

          2. Wayward Sun*

            A friend of mine was once told that his *concussion symptoms* were due to being fat. (An overhead light had fallen on his head.)

        3. judyjudyjudy*

          BMI is a bad measure of fatness anyway, developed by the Belgian dude who was interested in “social physics” and the quantification of the “average man” in mid-1800s. BMI was based exclusively on European men and has well-studied racial and gender biases. Revised BMI categories are based on the health of American white men in the 1950s — but even in America alone, health looks a lot different than it does now.

      3. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

        Meh. Literally everyone I know who has used these “wonder drugs” (which is about a dozen people, so obviously not a significant sample on the grand scale, but 100% of my personal experience is more than one or two people) has experienced multiple (documented) side effects that have caused them significant health problems, some of which persisted even after they stopped taking the medication, and they have universally said that the weight loss was not worth the resulting ongoing health issues.

        1. judyjudyjudy*

          I went to an academic seminar this week, given by a researcher who was studying the connections between immune response and obesity. Semaglutide got brought up in the question and answer session at the end of the talk. She thought that these drugs might be less popular in the coming years because of their side effects, including recent reports of a reduction in muscle mass.

          Also, my understanding of this medication is that to maintain its effects (the weight loss), you have to be on it permanently — which is a barrier to its overall effectiveness.

          1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

            You have to be on it permanently? Wow, what a great healthcare development … for the financial health of drug companies

          2. Esmae*

            Generally you do have to stay on it permanently, whether it’s for weight loss or for diabetes. If you can tolerate the side effects (or don’t get any), great, but it’s definitely a commitment.

          3. JustKnope*

            As you would and do for any chronic condition. Cholesterol meds only lower your cholesterol while you’re on them. Diabetes meds lower your BGs while you’re on them. These medicines are correcting hormonal imbalances and causing weight loss so yeah, when you take away the correction, the weight comes back on.

        2. Anecdotal evidence incoming*

          I’m taking them as is my husband and the side effects for us are very gentle. The medicine is changing our lives; it’s truly a miracle. I’m down 70 lbs this year, he’s down over 100. We pay for a compounded version produced in a US pharmacy that’s licensed to do so.

    4. Person from the Resume*

      Let’s be honest, though. This isn’t because this is a “weight loss drug.” Insurance companies are trying to reduce their costs to make money for them. They’re doing the same thing to drugs for conditions unrelated to weight loss.

      1. dulcinea47*

        right. the goal of the companies that are supposed to provide us health care, is actually to provide as little care as possible while collecting our money.

        1. Worldwalker*

          If they were non-profit, that would be their goal. But they’re for-profit, so their goal is to expend the least amount of money while taking in the greatest amount possible, like any other for-profit company balancing expenses and sale price for their products. The difference is, they’re not selling socks or graphics cards — they’re selling lives.

      2. Ann O'Nemity*

        This is my experience as well. I recently ended up paying out of pocket for a prescription drug (not related to weight loss) after three rounds of prior authorization rejections. My doctor said it’s happening more and more – insurance companies are deliberately making it difficult to access drugs to avoid covering them. And meanwhile these insurance companies are raking in record profits.

        1. Medicated Ginzo*

          Same here. Paying out of pocket for 2/3 of my psychiatric medications these days. I also noticed that pharmacies have started applying GoodRx coupons automatically when PA is rejected, which is convenient but unsettling. Guess we’re just giving up on insurance altogether round here! I’m lucky to make enough to get by with the coupons, but this country has jack shit to offer people who don’t.

  15. I'm Always the Phoebe in a Group*

    “Would a man be expected to always be extra “nice?””
    So extra nice is an expectation for women but such a burden for men?
    Got it.

    1. Texan in exile on her phone*

      Well in general – eye rolling excluded – men are praised for actions women are criticized for.

      Men are leaders, women are bossy. Men are direct and confident, women are outspoken. Men are professional, women are cold. Etc, etc, etc.

    2. Still*

      “Would a man be expected” is such a weird way to phrase it in English that I’m wondering if the LW comes from a country like Germany or Sweden where “man” is used the same way as “one” or the generic “you”. “Would one be expected” / “Would you be expected” makes this question a bit less bewildering.

      1. KateM*

        Could have meant “man” as in “why are women like me always expected to be extra nice – would a man be held to the same standard of not eye-rolling?”.

        1. Sloanicota*

          This. It’s true that women are often expected to be baseline *much* warmer than men, in, say, email communication – a man may send a relatively curt email with no exclamation marks and that’s “just Tom” but it would land much harder from Thomasina, who might also be coached to add “thanks” and “have a nice day” – and she is also expected to be generally friendlier, more thoughtful, help out more etc etc. However, this specific calibration that a man could roll his eyes and still be considered professional is probably not correct – at least in my opinion.

          1. Falling Diphthong*

            It’s an interesting detail–if you were an actor asked to convey the body language of a leader, someone respected for their wisdom and leadership, you would not include eye rolls.

      2. Irish Teacher.*

        I took it to mean “is the person who criticised me being sexist? Would they tell a man to stop rolling his eyes or are they only saying it to me because I’m a women and therefore expected to be ‘extra-nice’?”

      3. Ellis Bell*

        No? This is how you would phrase it in English if you’re asking if a man would be held to the same standard: “Would a man be expected to police his body language like this, or are they just targeting me as a woman?” The answer, of course is yes. Men don’t get a free pass to do things that are overtly rude with their body language. Women definitely do get penalized sometimes by sexist people for doing reasonable things, but OP’s calibration of what is reasonable is way off.

        1. Still*

          I see now that I’ve unconsciously read the letter as being written by a man, which is why this phrasing seemed so weird to me! Of course, it makes way more sense if it’s written by a woman. I blame tiredness from travel.

      4. Buffalo*

        When I first read your comment, it didn’t make any sense to me, because I was so locked into the reading of the letter as meaning, “It’s sexist to expect me not to roll my eyes – I’m being held to an unfair standard as a woman – would you hold a man to that standard?” But now reading it through your lens, I can’t unread it through your lens. I’ve got to say, “not understanding that rolling your eyes is rude” and “referring to oneself as ‘a man'” are at similar levels of social awkwardness!

      5. Higgs Bison*

        In English (or at least American English) it’s a common enough turn of phrase for attempting to call out sexism.

    3. Dust Bunny*

      The fact that men are not expected to be nice often enough is not reason not to expect it of women. Underlings should not be expected to take dismissive treatment just so the LW doesn’t feel put-upon.

  16. ThisIsBananaPants*

    LW 4: This is my world right now! I’m probably a couple of steps ahead of you on this journey, so here is what I’ve done so far…

    I worked at the same company (in several different roles) for over 25 years. It got to the point where although I enjoyed the actual role, I wasn’t happy with all the surrounding things (eg: management, the constant BS around wfh vs office, difficulty getting my manager to understand neuro diversity etc). In the end I was so unhappy I was consumed by it.

    So, I did my financial planning and took the leap into the void – I resigned. I don’t have family commitments (eg: children etc), so in this manner we may differ.

    Next, my plan:
    1. Write my CV. I hadn’t updated it in over 25 years (internal roles hadn’t required cv for internal applications). So – I started my CV from scratch, after reading up on various job boards in my country on current expectations.

    2. Brush up my LinkedIn profile. I didn’t go overboard, but made sure my connections were up to date, and included people who I had recently successfully worked with. I now have a specific time in my week where I log in and make a few new connections and contribute to posts. It’s only about 30 minutes, but having the time in my diary ensures I get it done.

    3. Consider the type of work I want next. After 25+ years in the corporate world, I’ve decided I want more connection with my community. I also want to decrease my stress, and actually have a life – so am looking at maybe having two part time jobs. One will have set hours, the other flexible (I’m getting my passenger license so I can do taxi work or similar).

    4. Jump in the deep end – apply for a role. I’ve just done this and been shortlisted for an interview on Monday!

    5. Keep looking at job boards. This is making sure I keep updating my brain with potential ideas, and don’t get stuck into old ways of thinking.

    Good luck with your journey.

  17. Excel-sior*

    LW4 – if you’re truly miserable in this job, then now is the time to start looking. it’s not going yo get any better. i know starting a job search is daunting for lots of reasons, but right now what you can do is take your time and be methodical about it; you’re not looking for a *new* job, you’re looking for a *better* job.

    what you don’t want to do is keep putting it off until the work situation gets so untenable that you end up quitting without anything lined up and then you’re looking for just *any* job.

  18. Mabby*

    Maybe I’ve been out of the US too long. Isn’t it a violation of some sort that the employer (not the insurance company) knows what medications their employees are taking? I thought that wasn’t legal unless it was necessary to know for work purposes.

    1. Testing*

      We don’t know if the letter came from the employer or from the insurance company (which could have received the instruction “send this info to all employees who use this medication, whoever they are” from the employer).

      1. Global Cat Herder*

        That was my assumption, that it was from the insurance company. I get two types of mailings from insurance.

        General info “hey, we see you have asthma, it’s important to have regular checkups” has just the insurance company’s logo on it.
        Plan info “your plan will no longer cover the specific asthma med you take” has both the insurance company’s logo and my employer’s logo on it.

  19. TechWorker*

    For LW3, giving different employees different amounts is less egregious if it’s more ‘a small bonus that happens to come at Christmas’ than ‘a Christmas gift’. That’s definitely how some small companies I know of do their bonuses (& yes the amounts are paltry, but guess it depends what the salaries are to start with).

    1. ecnaseener*

      Gift cards definitely seem like a gift rather than a bonus. I’d expect a bonus to be on a paycheck.

      1. JB*

        Legally, yes. But plenty of small businesses (or even just confused managers) will think they can cleverly help the employee avoid income tax by handing out a bonus in the form of a gift card.

    2. Festively Dressed Earl*

      My take on the different amounts was that people in different positions got different amounts (e.g. manager got $100, assistant managers got $50, front line staff got $25). Come to think of it, those tiers should be reversed.

  20. SlightCorrection*

    While this doesn’t address the insurance/coverage issue, I do want to push back slightly on the framing of the weight loss drug. They are not being forced to see the company’s doctor – which comes with a de facto expectation that all of the medical records belong to/are seen by the company. They are being forced to use a specific outside medical pathway to obtaining an expensive drug. Like it or not, this is a common insurance company arrangement for very expensive drugs (like some cancer drugs) and may not be coming from the employer at all. My dad has been forced to use a particular organization to get some of his leukemia meds for years (they cost significantly more than the weight loss drugs). The specialty organizations that do this will often work with your normal doctors. I’d ask the online clinic about this, and also if you have proof of previous successful use with associated data about improvements in health conditions or proof you’ve gone through that process before you may be able to speed up some of the earlier steps of the stepwise process.

    1. Emcee*

      This. Insurance companies can dictate many parts of your healthcare process – what providers/specialists you can or can’t see, which PHARMACY you use, which procedures you can or can’t do, which service, how long you stay in a facility/hospital/etc and so on. This is just another version.

    2. RagingADHD*

      Seconded. Having to go through the managed clinic does not necessarily mean having to go back to square one for a prescription you have already been on. Sometimes sharing the records will check the box.

      Do you have any kind of healthcare / insurance advocate or benefit coordinator who may be able to help you navigate this? I think it may be premature to assume you will definitely receive a rejection in January, if you can get the new clinic communicating with your existing provider.

  21. SupplyChainWoes*

    LW2, some of this may not be the expense, but a supply chain control. These new weight loss drugs are actually diabetes drugs that have been repurposed and the people who need them to treat diabetes are getting crowded out of the market by the weight loss boom. It has become difficult at best to get the drugs in the medically necessary use cases. I’m not suggesting that the bulk of folks who take the drugs don’t find them medically beneficial, but the people who use them to prevent vision loss, amputations, death, etc are finding them increasingly difficult to get. One response is to have stricter screening for use for other purposes so the drugs remain available to those patients who need them. I’m not suggesting there aren’t patients who medically need to lose weight who should get to access the drugs if they’re a good fit, but that the priority chain likely has been evaluated as 1. diabetics taking the drugs, 2. medically required weight loss for treating other conditions, 3. weight loss needed to qualify for medically beneficial but optional surgeries (don’t get me started on why weight loss is required for this), 4. weight loss to prevent future medical issues, 5. weight loss for other reasons.

    Putting on the financial hat, uncontrolled diabetes is one of the biggest expenses for insurance companies and they will prioritize diabetes treatment over most other things. Like it or not, medical insurance is still a business and it makes financial as well as health decisions.

    In a perfect world with unlimited supplies all of these constituencies could get the drugs as long as they weren’t medically contraindicated, but we do not live in that world.

    1. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

      My kid is eleven and he can control his eye rolling. (Exhibit A: he never rolls his eyes at teachers, grandparents, or anybody else other than us.)

      Similarly, LW, unless you also roll your eyes at your boss, you can control it.

    2. DivergentStitches*

      A lot of judgment here in the comments, but for those of us that are neurodivergent (idk if OP is /shrug/) we often have to be told that we’re doing something “wrong” when it comes to body language.

      I remember being told I was eye-rolling when I actually wasn’t, but after that I was diligent not to seem like I was.

      I remember being told after a meeting that I came across defensively when I crossed my arms (when actually it was just a comfortable position).

      We sometimes need someone to tell us when neurotypical folks are perceiving something we’re doing incorrectly.

      1. different seudonym*

        The LW herself both identified the behavior and indicated that she understood that her interlocutors take it negatively. She just thinks she has a right to do it.

      2. Matt*

        Yes, I was astounded at this level of piling on OP 1 . I’m neurodivergent and this the first time in my life I’m hearing that eye rolling is that great big capital crime. I would have thought about it as an equivalent of saying “sh..” in the office – something you shouldn’t do regularly, but nothing that gets you to HR for disciplinary action. I consider myself lucky that everytime something goes wrong, my face literally freezes (which probably isn’t good too), so I guess that’s why I never ran into this problem. I also have problems with eye contact, I’ve been told about this by bosses, but maybe this keeps them from rolling. I realize I’m the only one, but here’s one opinion in defense of OP 1.

        1. biobotb*

          The LW has contempt for her coworkers and her eye rolling expresses that. Unless you routinely say “shit” to express contempt for your coworkers, I don’t see how it would be analogous. (And if someone does routinely swear to express contempt for their coworkers, they should stop. That’s unkind and unprofessional.)

        2. Mary*

          Okay, but the OP isn’t just doing the equivalent of saying “sh…” in the office. If we’re going to use that metaphor, then she’s calling someone “sh…” to their face, has been called out on it, claims it’s involuntary, and is asking if it’s because the OP is a woman.

          If the OP was quietly rolling her eyes to herself after the fact and someone only noticed by accident, then I’d agree with you that the metaphor is apt.

        3. JB*

          You seem to be assuming that LW1 is behaving the way you would behave, rather than the way LW1 states herself that she behaves in her letter.

          As you say, someone should not swear often in the office. Why is that? What are the consequences if one does, in fact, swear often, in a way that disturbs coworkers or comes across as rude and demeaning? In most offices, you would get spoken to by your manager and, yes, maybe eventually see disciplinary action if the disruptive behavior didn’t stop.

          This is what LW1 is doing with eye-rolling. She isn’t in trouble for a one-off incident of rolling her eyes quietly to herself; she got spoken to for repeatedly and frequently rolling her eyes at people while giving them negative feedback.

        4. Annie2*

          Rolling your eyes at someone is indeed rude and frankly I would categorize it as astonishingly rude in an office setting. We’re not all always up-to-date on all office or social norms (for various reasons – neurodivergence, upbringing, cultural differences), but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

        5. fhqwhgads*

          The way the letter writer describes themself eye rolling is equivalent to going up to a coworker and saying “you’re incompetent and will never be capable of doing a good job”. It’s not a capital crime. It is extremely rude. It’s also not constructive feedback.

        6. Dahlia*

          I’m also neurodivergent and I was taught rolling my eyes at someone was rude as a child. It’s also constantly coded as rude in media. Snarky teenagers are described as rolling their eyes.

          Is this like a raised as a girl thing? Because. People explicitly told me as a child eye-rolling was rude. Especially when I did it at people.

      3. JB*

        Nobody is responding to a hypothetical situation where someone made an eye gesture that was misinterpreted as eye-rolling. They are judging the actual text of the letter, in which LW1 clearly states that she is rolling her eyes, she knows she is rolling her eyes, and she believes she should be allowed to continue rolling her eyes because her coworkers really, really annoy her.

        1. Six for the truth over solace in lies*

          Yeah, she knows she’s eye rolling and expressly mentioned doing it to people she judges “uncoachable.” This isn’t someone who doesn’t know what eye rolling is, or doesn’t know that it indicates contempt. She specifically notes doing it *because* she’s assessed that the person no longer deserves the benefit of the doubt.

          Honestly, it’s kind of insulting to see someone who outright acknowledges their dismissiveness and is getting “but what if neurodivergent?” I think that I can safely say that active contempt is not a symptom of ND.

  23. Madame Arcati*

    LW#4 how about some positive What Ifs? What if you buy Alison’s books and make your resume and interview skills amazing? What if you find a much better new job? What if in a little while you are sending Alison an update saying how you’ve got a lovely new job, your only regret is not getting going sooner, and thanking her and the commentariat for their support?

    It’s natural that a miserable job will damage your confidence and optimism but you can claw them back! You may feel like inaction protects you from failure but in this scenario it is keeping you away from success. Don’t let evil current job hold you back.

    I’m a Brit and we don’t really go in for cheerleader pompons but I’m shaking some imaginary ones just for you :-)

    (the trad British show of support is, judging by football/soccer, manifested by singing an old hymn tune adding insulting lyrics about the opposing team manager’s driving ban…but it’s too early for the requisite pints of Stella Artois)

    1. epicdemiologist*

      **chanting under my breath** me & me mum & me dad & me gran went off to Waterloo… me & me mum & me dad & me gran & a bucket of vindaloo

    1. Poison I.V. drip*

      That’s what irks me about this letter, pretending it’s some sort of involuntary reaction. It has strong “don’t blame me for just being honest” energy.

      1. lost academic*

        It’s one thing to suggest that certain aspects of facial expressions are hard for some people to control, but it’s an entirely different story to suggest that an overt action like eye rolling when giving the feedback described is anywhere near that universe. OP is basically saying “you (or your behavior but it’s always going to read as you) disgust me and I can’t be bothered to summon the basic human let alone professional demeanor that is manners to not do it”. It’s an active and repeated act of denigration (per the thread above about it being bullying).

  25. Stanley steamers*

    You CANNOT roll your eyes when giving feedback to coworkers, regardless of your gender. You really shouldn’t be rolling your eyes at any time when speaking to a coworker, regardless of gender. It is INCREDIBLY rude. Yes, even if the coworker is a hapless joke who’s incompetent AF.

    1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      Eye-rolling is rude and unprofessional.
      Eye-rolling when giving feedback is disrespectful and cruel. You will likely be hated for it.
      STOP doing this

      1. Stanley steamers*

        OMG yes, that is an even better point (that eye rolling while giving feedback is so much worse!!!)

    2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      I got (rightly) rapped for rolling my eyes when one coworker went on and on interminably in a 15-person staff meeting. Doing it *to* someone 1-on-1 is even worse.

  26. kingderella*

    LW1: I believe it would be more professional to actually spell out your frustration (“You have a habit of doing X, and that’s really frustrating to me because it impacts my work in Y ways”) rather than not talking about your frustration but still communicating it by rolling your eyes. Latter strikes me as passive-aggressive and unprofessional.

  27. Tradd*

    Letter 2 – these drugs were developed to treat diabetes. The weight loss culture is pushing for access and that has created severe shortages for the diabetics who actually medically need them. A coworker is diabetic and has a hard time finding them due to demand for weight loss applications. Our insurance covers them as she’s diabetic. How about leaving these drugs for the people who actually need them?

    1. Sloanicota*

      This might make more sense if we were kinder to overweight people, but since we’re not, and we use “health” as the major cover for this, it makes sense to me that people are pretty desperate. I see the comments above about people trying to use these drugs to lose “the last ten pounds” but nobody I know trying to getaccess is like that

      1. Wayward Sun*

        Yeah, people are all about trying to force people to lose weight “for their health” until they try to get medication to help with that, and then it’s all “you’re just trying to fit into a swimsuit.” It’s a ridiculous (and entirely predictable) double standard.

        The next step will be people who the drugs don’t work for being harangued for not using them.

    2. Staff*

      Who do you think you are that you get to say something like that? You don’t know OP2’s weight. You don’t know what obesity related medical issues they may have. You don’t know how at risk they may be to developing diabetes. You don’t know anything, and you do NOT get to stand here and declare that their use of the drugs is medically unnecessary while yours is.

    3. Esmae*

      LW2 and their doctor have decided together that this is the best course for LW2’s health, I don’t think we in the comment section have any standing to challenge that.

    4. Insert Clever Name Here*

      I really recommend checking out the Maintenance Phase podcast’s episode on Ozempic (link coming in follow up comment). They talk about the background of the drug, how it began being prescribed off label, and some of the problems with assuming that every person taking it for weight loss is taking it out of vanity. As someone who has originally only heard about it because of people calling it “the wonder drug” and made a judgement about non-diabetics using it, it was a really enlightening conversation.

    6. JB*

      I want to make sure that you (and other commenters with similar sentiments) understand that most people using Ozempic for weight loss did not walk into their doctor’s office and demand it.

      They are taking it because their doctor, who they trust, actively and vigorously advised them to do so.

      I, personally, have to fend off my doctor every time I go in for an appointment. I am actively losing weight on my own at what she (begrudgingly) admits is a healthy rate, and yet every time – “are you really sure you don’t want to try a medication? Can you tell me more about why?” She literally tried to tell me that Ozempic was a miracle drug, and was shocked when I told her that multiple people I know who have used it for weight loss suffered severe, permanent side effects.

      All of those people were taking it because their doctor said they should, too. Most overweight people I know are getting the same pressure from their doctors.

      Yes – the supply shortage of a drug that diabetic people rely on is a bad thing. Yes – the push of Ozempic as a miracle drug is a bad thing. Yes – the fitness influencers pushing it on Tiktok, etc. are often skewing reality and sacrificing ethics for the sake of making money.

      But the actual people who are relying on Ozempic for real weight loss are generally not people who stormed into a doctor’s office and said “I’m lazy and want to lose weight quick, give me that Ozempic shit or else”. They are taking a medication that the healthcare provider they are supposed to trust told them would help them be healthier.

    7. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      We don’t know if the OP is fat and healthy, or someone with health problems that mean she should be a priority.

      Someone who needs drugs because they have diabetes or other serious health conditions should be prioritised over someone very overweight but without any associated health problems.

      Diabetes inadequately untreated can lead to blindness, amputations, heart attack, stroke, kidney failure, death.

      Even if there is adequate supply for everyone – which doesn’t seem the case everywhere – these drugs are currently very expensive and have side effects, so there are ethical issues in prescribing them for healthy people to take lifelong, just because prejudiced people can’t accept bodies of different sizes & shapes.
      Ethics and trying to manage escalating healthcare costs is why many European countries will only prescribe such drugs for medical reasons and even then only after conventional methods have failed.

      1. Anecdotal evidence incoming*

        When you are obese, you are not healthy by any medical measure. It is a serious health condition that has many negative effects on the body and brings about a wide number of comorbidities including diabetes. Source: was obese, but crack open any medical journal and you’ll find plenty of data on the health effects that the state of obesity causes.

          1. March*

            Complicating factor is that “obese” and “fat” aren’t actually the same thing, and it’s very problematic that even medical professionals seem to think that it is. Obesity IS a health risk (NOT a moral failing, just factually unhealthy) but it’s an outlier of being fat. If you’re fat, you’re not necessarily obese. Being fat is (pretty obviously if you look at ALL the facts) not always unhealthy.

              1. Part time lab tech*

                I had a look at some of these and it’s really obvious there is a huge variation in body shape and fitness within categories. eg. only the lanky body shapes would be underweight (and I think it’s more than the distribution of fat.)
                Broader bone proportions are almost incapable of being underweight and being healthy.
                It’s interesting, thanks for linking.

        2. New Jack Karyn*

          “When you are obese, you are not healthy by any medical measure”

          Nah, fam. There are much better measures of health than simply BMI.

    8. Pierrot*

      As a fat person on one of these medications, all of these comments criticizing people who take weight loss meds who don’t have diabetes are very disheartening. There is such a double standard for fat people. I was borderline pre-diabetic and have heart disease on both sides of my family- multiple family members who were healthy weights and dropped dead in their 40s. After attempts to lose weight without medication didn’t work, I reluctantly decided to try GLP1s. I say reluctantly because I questioned whether they were “for me”. I am glad I did, because I’ve potentially added years to my life.

      I am critical of celebrities who are not overweight or diabetic jumping on the bandwagon for purely cosmetic reasons. I also don’t think people should be pressured into taking these medications because of fatphobia. But regular every day people who just want to improve their health and have struggled with losing weight on their own are not deserving of judgment for deciding with their doctor that GLP1s are the right options. Direct that energy toward pharmaceutical companies that price gouge, insurance companies, and the supply chain for not meeting the needs of the public. Otherwise it really feels like a damned if you don’t, damned if you do situation.

  28. Dog momma*

    #1..if you can’t stop your eye rolling or any other signs of complete disrespect for a person, & can’t be professional, you shouldn’t be managing anybody.. If your a peer, this should bump up to your manager and you should be spoken to. I worked with a whole bunch of people and personalities over the yrs and never ran into this, and it would not be tolerated. just my 2 cents.

  29. DJ Abbott*

    The real problem in #2 is that companies are allowed to charge such exorbitant prices for medications. During pandemic unemployment, I struggled to get my $400+ asthma medicine at a reasonable price.
    Last I checked, they were using the excuse of paying for the research and development to charge these prices. A good country would have a structure where R&D would not be too expensive, and medication would have a reasonable price. Unfortunately, this is not likely to change for at least the next four years.

    1. Righty tighty lefty loosey*

      A good chunk of the R&D costs are for studies to satisfy FDA requirements. In addition, companies have to pay the FDA to review their products. The incoming administration has promised reform of the FDA, so my expectation is that the coming four years will actually see an improvement in medication prices for the consumer.

      1. Wayward Sun*

        An improvement in prices, but probably not an improvement in quality of care, since without the FDA overseeing them companies will be able to release drugs that are dangerous or just don’t work.

      4. Disappointed*

        I’m hoping your comment was sarcasm, because there is about a 0.000001% chance of a US pharmaceutical company choosing that option. The sole purpose of bringing down the costs to get drug approval is so the COMPANIES can make more money not so prices will come down for consumers.

        There are a ton of things that could be done to make everything from rare drugs to over the counter sunscreen/skin care cheaper, like allowing products to be sold in the US if they have been approved by the FDA-equivalent in other places such as EU, Australia, etc and been on the market there at least X amount of time without issue.

        of course, Americans are dumb enough to think that ivermectin was going to cure a viral infection so maybe we shouldn’t be allowed unsupervised use

        1. Anonymouse*

          Thalidomide was approved in Europe, Canada, and many other countries but was never approved by the FDA in the US. I am glad that Francis Kelsey at the FDA stood firm despite pressure from the pharmaceutical company.

          1. C*

            Thalidomide has been approved in the USA as one of the safest chemotherapy drugs.

            Which is why even 72 year olds are asked if there is any chance they might be pregnant before each and every chemo appointment.

    2. Nightengale*

      In medical school I was pretty horrified to learn that some amount of advertising is considered under R+D costs. . . .

      1. DJ Abbott*

        That is horrifying, and an excellent example of what needs to change!
        I’m sure they do better in other countries, where they manage to structure research and approval in ways that are not so expensive. The FDA and government need to look to other examples. But I doubt they will, in the coming years at least.

  30. Justin*

    I have no poker face. If I truly know I’m going to hate a call, I keep my camera off.

    But just like an interview, I hold my breath and keep my reactions together for feedback if need be.

  31. ecnaseener*

    LW4, can you put some external accountability in place? Maybe ask a friend to review your resume so you have to get the updated draft to them by a certain date. I find that can be a helpful way to get over the hump of “just do the thing you rationally know you want to do.”

  32. Dinwar*

    “Would a man be expected to always be extra “nice”?”

    In the sense of “Would a man be expected to avoid displaying open contempt for his coworkers?” the answer is yes. I’ve seen men get into significant trouble over their inability to do so, a few even fired for it. It’s been a basic rule to treat people with respect and dignity, even when (especially when) delivering harsh criticism, for ages.

    The irony here is that communication is a basic part of the supervisor’s job function–you are the vehicle through which the company communicates expectation to the workers under you, and the baseline expectation is that you do it professionally. And you’re failing to do so, despite multiple conversations about it. In this, you are not substantially different from the workers you are showing utter contempt for.

    1. Worldwalker*

      Re-reading the letter, I don’t think the OP is actually the supervisor of these people — there’s a mention of them being lower on the org chart, but not reporting to the OP. So I’m wondering if this is even official feedback, or the OP is just delivering “feedback” (which, based on the tone of the letter, very likely comes across as criticism) to co-workers without any official path to do so.

      1. Dinwar*

        Depending on how the group is organized it could be either. The company I work for has project managers, who you work for on individual projects, and talent managers, who are your “hire and fire and determine salary increase” type managers. You also have team leads and site managers as well. Any of the four of them can provide official, unofficial, or semi-official feedback, whether or not you officially report to them.

        Matrix management was awesome, in the same way that gastrointestinal diseases are awesome…

  33. Fluffy Fish*

    OP1 -Since you are such a stickler for people doing their jobs, look at it this way…Soft skills like getting along with colleagues and not being rude is absolutely part of the job. So right now you yourself are failing at part of your job and by your attitude you don’t feel like fixing it (kinda sounds like the people you’re giving feedback too).

  34. OP3*

    OP3 here.

    The gifts were definitely personal from my boss, and were a reflection of how immediately useful we were to him. I was given $100 as associate manager, lead supervisors got $50, and general staff $25. The company itself at one point sent everyone a $25 GC to something like Dunkin’, Target, Starbucks, but that stopped during Covidtimes.

    I absolutely appreciate this staff and feel like I should do something for them (apart from telling them often that they do good work and going to bat for them to get appropriate raises). I think though that providing lunch when we’re busy, and keeping good snacks (not just cookies) handy may be more my style. I don’t know … I’m not a good gifter and everyone’s tastes vary so much that maybe the GC is the way to go.

    What say you all?

    1. Sloanicota*

      This is tough! I think it may be unpopular if you go from “old boss gave us gifts” to “no gifts under new boss” – which doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do it! Just a heads up. That’s one reason I wouldn’t have recommended old boss give personal gifts! If you want to give everyone $50 this year, that’s fine, but it sounds like you don’t. If it were, I might try to do *something* in lieu of nothing, whether that’s bringing in a bagel lunch or buying everyone a nice chocolate bar or something, but I’m kind of cowardly about such things.

      1. Sunflower*

        I feel the same. One of my old bosses was very generous with holiday gifts. When a new boss took over, she had a family and not as much money to spend as the old boss. She didn’t have to give us a gift, but she baked us cookies and we appreciated it as much as gifts that cost much more. “It’s the thought that counts” is true.

    2. HonorBox*

      OP3 – I think that because it was a tradition, people might expect it. Especially those who have a longer tenure with the company. You don’t have to continue it forever, though. Phase it out after this year. Or ask everyone as you give them out this year if they’d prefer you give them gift cards around the holidays OR put that money instead into other things throughout the year. They might not recognize that you’re putting your own money into better snacks or buying lunch a few times. Personally, I’d rather have that from my boss than a gift card once.

      I would suggest that everyone gets the same amount. You got $100. Maybe just give everyone $50, making it even across the board. Don’t do the VISA gift cards because there’s an extra fee that you pay. Just grab some gift cards, and let people know they’re welcome to trade.

    3. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      Unequal money gifts seem would grate for me, but it would be expensive to raise everyone up to the maximum and would be unpopular with the highest gifted to lower the amounts to the average.

      Why not ask in the next team meeting what the team would prefer, a show of hands?

      You could weight the question with your preference :)
      e.g. “I though instead of gift cards I’d invite everyone to lunch – all in work time – meal, dessert & coffee but no alcohol at :: good local restaurant:: Would you like that, for achange?”
      Or to save worktime, you could let everyone order in.

    4. Person from the Resume*

      I don’t think the boss should have to gift out of their pocket for Christmas.

      LW is in a rough situation because the precedent is changing and people may expect the gift cards. But I do think the LW should change the precedent.

    5. Gigi*

      I think your previous boss was trying to do something nice, but ultimately did something wrong. I’m in one of those government jobs where you move around every few years, like the military. At one post, the previous Big Boss threw an extravagant holiday party every year. The new Big Boss was a single mom and didn’t want to spend all that money. Not that she should’ve had to no matter her circumstances. I’m always conscience of setting a precedent someone else is going to have to deal with. I also kind of hate showing appreciation only around the holidays. It doesn’t feel inclusive.

      Now that I’m a Big Boss, I try to show appreciation in smaller ways all year round. Donuts when we’ve got a big project. I’m also a baker, so my cake is very popular. (I’m midwestern. We feed people.) On Valentine’s Day, I get those cards like we used in grade school and write a thank you note to everyone along with a small/silly gift, like stress balls or pens themed to the policy work we do. When someone leaves, the other manager and I split the cost of a gift under $50. People appreciate the visible signs of gratitude, but I’m not setting the next manager up for an unreasonable outlay of funds tied to a holiday they may not celebrate, which is what the previous manager (while well-meaning) did to you. Find your own vibe to celebrate people all year round.

    6. JB*

      I think you should do what feels right to you.

      Personally – my old boss recently retired. He used to give me (and, I assume, everyone else on the team) a gift card every Christmas. My new boss who took over for him doesn’t do that, just a nice card with a little handwritten note. I was fine with that. Different bosses are different people, and the gift cards were coming from him personally, not part of my compensation or anything.

      If you’re worried about how it will feel if you give nothing at all – maybe a nice hand-written card for each person, and put out a box of treats for everyone to enjoy. That might help set the tone that you’re more of a “brings in stuff to share” boss rather than a “gives people gift cards based on usefulness” boss.

      1. Prefer my furballs*

        I agree with this! Your first year is a good time to make this type of change…it will be much more disappointing to people if you give them once but then shrink or stop them.

        Maybe if you think of them as those were his personal gifts to coworkers, just like his gifts to the postal worker, babysitter, etc.

    7. WFH4VR*

      I think everyone should get the same amount, for starters, but frankly if you can just give everyone half a day off that doesn’t count towards their PTO, that would be more appreciated.

    8. fhqwhgads*

      In other words, old boss gave the lowest paid people the least? That’s not awesome.
      If you’re not a gift giver, feel free to be you and not gift give.

    9. Fluffy Shoes*

      Could you talk to the company and ask if they’ll reinstate christmas gifts?

      Whether they do or don’t, do you have the power to schedule half-days, or wfh days? Time off is pretty valued too, especially near the holidays!

      If none of that suits, ordering in lunch for a few days, or fancy treats for a week, or getting something literally for the office (a fancier coffee machine? A coffee subscription? Some wacky pens?)?

      If previousboss was handing out money to individuals based on how useful he found them…that seems like something the office culture should steer away from. Marking the holidays with a little treat is nice; going into your own pocket to give monetary gifts is…fraught.

  35. Heck, darn, and other salty expressions*

    Another point about the eye rolling. If someone were giving me feedback and started rolling their eyes, I would be inclined to believe they were not serious, as in “I was told to give you this feedback and I think its stupid but here it is”. Maybe that is why some of the workers are not improving. They don’t think he is serious, and they know no one ever gets fired.

    1. CTT*

      I was just thinking “what are the circumstances in which I would ever think it’s okay to roll my eyes while giving feedback” and immediately remembered I did it yesterday, when telling a paralegal who assisted me with a regulatory filing that the state came back with a bunch of absurd comments that aren’t anywhere in the regulations or instructions. I passed along their comments with a hearty amount of eye rolls at “so you’ll have to revise this to say X even though the instructions say only to include Y.”

      1. Spreadsheet Queen*

        Ha! Yes, that is true. But you’re on the same side and mutual eye-rolling about an unreasonable external party (who cannot see you do this!) is an exception.

        1. Saturday*

          Yeah, I think the coworkers can probably tell if the eye rolling is directed at them or at the feedback they need to pass on. In LW1’s case, it’s absolutely directed at them, and I think they coworkers know it (which is why at least one of them complained).

        2. CTT*

          Oh definitely, and the paralegal was like “those jerks” when I told her about it. But being on the same side is the only time it’s okay!

  36. Not Your Pens*

    FWIW LW1, eye rolling is now considered an aggressive behavior by some. Whether we buy into that specific wording or not, it is something that we should try to refrain from in the workplace, especially when giving someone feedback because whether it is aggressive or not, it is very rude. I take exception to it being classified as an unconscious thing, too, because you can actively NOT roll your eyes. Regardless of whether you’re male or female, you are in a professional setting, giving feedback to someone. You’re not sitting around with a friend who tries to tell you that the earth is flat again.

    1. Chairman of the Bored*

      Who are the “some” that consider an eye roll to be aggressive?

      Is this a cultural or generational thing, perhaps?

      1. Worldwalker*

        Among my many weird interests, I’m interested in etiquette books from the turn of the century and earlier. They’re an interesting look at how people believed life should be, whether or not it actually was.

        None of them mention rolling eyes, because that’s not something a polite and well-mannered person would ever have dreamed of doing in the first place. The greatest social weapon, the so-called “cut direct,” consisted of looking a person in the eye and then deliberately ignoring them. And even that sometimes lead to duels. You know, the “pistols at 20 paces” kind of duels.

        So, while they likely didn’t consider an eye roll to be aggressive (IMO, “aggressive” is a word and concept that has been overused to the point of bleaching most of the meaning out of it, when both brandishing a gun and rolling your eyes are both aggressive) but they absolutely would have considered it unspeakably rude.

        We may be more “authentic” than previous generations, but remember that the ultimate in authenticity is a toddler having a tantrum in the toy store. IMO, we need to be maybe a bit less authentic and a bit more polite.

        1. Rusty Shackelford*

          We may be more “authentic” than previous generations, but remember that the ultimate in authenticity is a toddler having a tantrum in the toy store. IMO, we need to be maybe a bit less authentic and a bit more polite.

          Absolutely.

  37. Not your typical admin*

    LW 1 – you have to figure out what your purpose is in giving feedback, and the best way to accomplish that. If it’s to improve the person’s performance, eye rolling is not going to help. It may make you feel better in the moment as a way of expressing your frustration, but won’t lead to long term behavior change.

  38. ElizabethJane*

    Unconscious body language is something like flinching when an object suddenly moves towards you or making yourself smaller by slouching and crossing your arms when you’re nervous.

    Eye rolling is a learned behavior and if you’re doing it so often that it has become an unconscious habit I’d probably look inward and figure out why you feel the need to do that.

  40. Chairman of the Bored*

    I worked for a guy once who would routinely roll his eyes when talking with his underlings, usually accompanied by a dismissive nose snort.

    He claimed that he “just couldn’t control it”.

    Lo and behold, when he was interacting with his bosses he didn’t display this behavior at all!

    It’s a miracle!

    Or maybe he just wouldn’t bother to be polite to people who didn’t have the power to make his life difficult. Hard to say.

    1. Forrest Rhodes*

      Ah. The “kiss up, kick down” syndrome lives. Someday we’ll figure out a way to wipe that out.

  41. Poison I.V. drip*

    Eye rolling is the face’s equivalent of making that obscene pumping gesture over your crotch. People who want to be taken seriously don’t do it.

  42. Megan C.*

    I’m a huge eye-roller, I do it a lot, and I got in trouble for it all the time growing up. That said, I’m definitely able to control it and have never rolled my eyes at a coworker. That’s a display of contempt and disrespect and no matter how inept you feel your coworkers are, it’s incredible rude to roll your eyes when giving feedback.

  43. AndersonDarling*

    #2 Anyone else want to make an startup that creates a bot to use the employer mandated weight loss app? For $8 a month, the bot will enter generic information leading the employer to grant the access your real life doctor recommends?
    I joke, but I don’t joke. If it doesn’t already exist, it will soon. If an employer thinks automation is the easy way out, then someone else will automate their machine.

    1. Worldwalker*

      There’s an old saw among programmers and video game designers: “If you reward pressing a button, people will automate pressing that button.”

      That’s also true for useless metrics in business, by the way. This is particularly true of employees who are treated like mindless button-pressers instead of fellow human beings. Make someone’s pay dependent on something meaningless, and someone “acting their wage” will find a way to automate it and go on about their life.

      Don’t believe me? Consider the market for “mouse jigglers” — the response to companies that measure employee productivity, not by what they actually produce, but by whether or not they’re moving their mouse around.

      1. Cicily*

        It is kind of funny that the LW is complaining about management not doing enough to fire people who are causing a problem.

        O RLY?

  45. Twinklefae*

    Re: LW #3

    In every place I’ve worked, a company gift card amount is based on seniority – kind of a retention bonus, like more vacation time. I would find it very odd to all get the same.

    1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      imo, it depends on whether the money is from the company, when rank /% of salary usually matters, or personal gifts from the manager which are valuing the person and hence should be equal – but tbh in 40 years work, I never received private money gifts from any manager, only from the employer.

      e.g. FinalJob gave December bonuses of ~1 month’s pay for those with 2+years employment, 2 weeks for at least 1 year and <2 years employed, but a fixed sum of ~500Eur for under 1 year. Usual sort of proportions in my field in DE.

      In contrast, the management of our division paid for a December indoor barbecue buffet lunch, employees only, which lasted until EOB and my direct manager would only stand us all the first round of drinks at the team's restaurant dinner (also employees only).
      A lot cheaper for them in each case than giving us actual money!

  46. Smurfette*

    LW1 reminds me of an ex-manager who was technically very capable but had … limited people skills.

    This person once turned to me in frustration and disbelief and said: “You have to be NICE to people at this place if you want them to do their job properly!” I think I kept a straight face.

  47. cosmicgorilla*

    I’m intrigued by this idea of eye-rolling as an unconscious, involuntary behavior.

    If I eye-roll out of response to something, I KNOW I did it. There might be some element of involuntarity (not a word, I know), like a knee-jerk response, but I FEEL when I do it.

    I was accused by a teacher of eye-rolling as a child, but I was actually not. I was unconsciously opening my eyes wide to settle/focus my contacts (later diagnosed with astigmatism.) My brain first went to some eye motion that is being interpreted as eye-rolling, as mine was.

    LW #1, I will for the moment err on the side of believing that you don’t know that you are doing it. I will kindly put forth that you may be making some involuntary eye motion that is being interpreted as eye-rolling.

    Maybe not. Maybe you are feeling contempt and expressing it via your eyes, and I’m being too kind.

    At any rate, whatever is going on, you CAN bring awareness to your eye motions. You can become hyper-vigilant when giving feedback so you notice if you start to do the thing. You can run practice sessions with a friend and ask them to note when it looks like you’re eye rolling. You can do a practice session on video and then play it back and watch your own eyes. This is not a “hands in the air, no way to control it.” You’ve been given this feedback; now you need to take the appropriate actions to make it less involuntary and more a thing you catch and control.

    1. Spencer Hastings*

      Yeah. I have a habit of looking off to the side and up when I’m trying to do math in my head, or remember something complicated. I was embarrassingly old when I learned that people often interpret this type of thing as eye-rolling (it might have been in comments here — you can learn a lot from reading people’s thoughts online, since people generally wouldn’t say certain things out loud to the actual people in their lives).

      1. Annie2*

        To me, someone looking off or to the side while thinking through a problem would be pretty clearly differentiated from someone rolling their eyes. There are other cues – it’s not just the physical act of looking up or around at any given time! “Hmm, let me think – … by February, we’ll have accrued… 90 additional points” with a thoughtful look on your face is entirely different from responding to feedback with “ok, I guess I’ll just… do it again!” while heaving a sigh.

        1. Dahlia*

          As someone who is autistic, it is not taken that way a lot of the time!

          This is something a lot of us actually struggle with and have experienced.

      2. Saturday*

        To me, it would seem odd to interpret it that way. Looking up is a very common thing to do when thinking (picture the thinking emoji!). Eye rolling seems very different.

    2. Saturday*

      LW says, “everyone agrees that the negative body language is in reaction to unacceptable performance.” So unconscious or not, it’s in response to frustration with the coworker, not something unrelated.

  48. Dust Bunny*

    LW1 I’m trying not to roll my eyes that you think not rolling your eyes is being “extra nice”.

    To quote Observer, August 22, 2022:

    1. Dust Bunny*

      Darn it. Let’s see if I can make blockquotes work here.

      OP, it’s OK to call him on this. You’re not having an issue with him making jokes in general, or being too informal. You are coming down on him for SPECIFIC things he’s doing that go beyond that line.

      To make an analogy: When you go to a high end fancy restaurant You might be expected to know which is the correct fork to use, but at your local fast food joint no one cares. But it’s still not ok to talk with food in your mouth, chew with you mouth wide open, etc. And it’s CERTAINLY not ok to pick your nose.

      You aren’t asking him to have “Fancy restaurant” manners. You’re reminding him that even in McDonald’s, basic manners matter.

  49. Carolyn Burnham*

    Am I the only one wondering why LW #1 is giving feedback to people they do not supervise? Why isn’t their supervisor the one giving feedback and addressing any ongoing issues? But yes, rolling your eyes while giving feedback is rude. That is a basic rule that shouldn’t need to be explained to anyone.

    1. Jennifer Strange*

      Not the LW, but there were times previously where I was in charge of training someone on something and had to give feedback/correction even though I didn’t specifically supervise them. It really depends on the role.

    2. Parenthesis Guy*

      LW#1 is senior to these people. Makes sense that they’re working on a project with junior people and have to provide feedback on something that these people did.

      1. Kevin Sours*

        Sure. But at some point you need to bring it up to their manager. Any feedback you provide is advisory. Ultimately it’s up to their manager to determine what acceptable performance looks like, not you. To the extent that it’s affecting your job you can also bring it up with your manager so they can either attempt to resolve the problem or give you guidance on how they want you to work around it.

        Chances are good that OP is trying to work outside their authority because the people with authority are failing to do the job. But it’s also possible that the ones with the say so are content with the way things are.

    3. Worldwalker*

      I noticed that too.

      I’m wondering if this is actual official feedback, or just being bossy with co-workers.

    4. MassMatt*

      You are not the only one, and I’m a little surprised Alison didn’t mention it. There are times where giving feedback to people who don’t report to you makes sense (you needed them to complete a task and they did not, etc). But in this case the issues seem to be repeated, hence the (inappropriate and rude) eye rolling. If someone is repeatedly not doing the task, their manager should be looped in at the least.

      It’s no wonder problem employees are never dealt with if their managers are kept out of the loop about what they are doing wrong.

  50. access specialist*

    LW2 – your doctor’s office will know this, but you may be able to be grandfathered in. The appeal should be worded that the drug has already been successful for you and it’s imperative you continue without interruption for x,y,z reasons.

  51. Irish Teacher.*

    LW1, as somebody else mentioned, giving feedback appropriately is a work skill, so by giving it in a way that comes across as rude and unprofessional and which makes it likely that people will dismiss your feedback (especially if they don’t report to you), you are underperforming in an area of your work.

    I realise it is not something you are doing intentionally and that it is more a result of your frustration with things that sound legitimately annoying, but…it is highly likely that the people you are giving feedback to are also not intentionally underperforming (yeah, there ARE people who deliberately do the bare minimum just because they can get away with it, but they are probably fewer in number than those who just legitimately struggle with an aspect of their job as you do with giving feedback appropriately) and there may well be understandable reasons why they are struggling with tasks too. You know the reasons you find giving appropriate feedback difficult but you don’t have the same knowledge about the reasons they may find a task difficult.

    And just as their mistakes are not a one-off, neither are yours. It sounds like you have done the same thing on multiple occasions, so you can understand why it’s not always easy to improve.

    And I hope this doesn’t sound harsh but it sounds like there is a large difference between your reaction to feedback on an area where you are underperforming (writing in to ask if the feedback is reasonable or if it is sexist) and the way you expect those who you give feedback to on areas in which they are underperforming to react to it (accepting it as just about their performance issues andnot personal). Just as you have concerns about the feedback you received, they have concerns about the feedback they received.

    And honestly, rolling your eyes when giving feedback on somebody’s performance IS personal. It implies that you think them incompetent and find it frustrating dealing with them. This may all be true. They may well be frustrating to deal with, but it still is fairly personal and it is understandable that they would feel hurt by it.

    Think about how YOU would feel if the person who gave you the feedback about needing to control your body language did so with body language that seemed frustrated and as if they thought you were stupid or that they saw no hope of you improving to an acceptable standard. Would you really see it as nothing personal?

  52. Been There*

    LW4: I have been in your shoes many times during the past three years. The director of my department is a micromanager, team morale felt like a roller coaster ride of ups and downs (mostly downs), and yet I kept telling myself that maybe I could tough it out because I loved the work and this was my first real job out of college, so what if I couldn’t find anywhere else? I couldn’t bring myself to job search even though I knew in my gut that was what I needed to do. It ultimately took 1.5 years of job searching off and on before I got an offer and accepted. But when I did, oh boy! My last day is in December, and my mental health is so much better already knowing there’s light at the end of the tunnel. If I have any regrets, it’s that I didn’t job search harder earlier on.

  53. Joana*

    When I was diagnosed with ADHD (and then autism) I started working on how I approach my coworkers who need help. Unless they’ve stated they specifically have one of those conditions as well I of course don’t assume they do, but I approach feedback, training etc kindly and genuinely as I started to understand why things had been so hard for me personally all these years. Even if it means a little extra work because I have to break something down into more steps than I was planning, or explain something that seems like common sense to me and others.

    They say that when there’s accommodations for some, it makes things easier for all, eg if there’s a wheelchair ramp into a building, it’s also useful for those who aren’t wheelchair bound but are having a bad pain day. So approaching feedback with a coworker, even if that coworker gets on your very last nerve, in a kind and genuine way that shows you actually put effort into it, rather than an exasperated, eye-roll sort of way, is probably going to get much better results.

    1. Joana*

      And to be clear because I completely forgot to say this in my original post, I do mean in “follow-up” feedback, not just initial. It would be fabulous if people who are struggling could just be told once to shape up and they automatically have the tools to do so and proceed to, but that’s just not the case a lot of the time. You’re gonna get people who need guidance more than once.

  54. DivergentStitches*

    There are companies that offer compounded semaglutide for a cheaper amount. If you search google for “forbes best weight loss medication” it’ll show a list that Forbes printed of the best reviewed companies that do this. You consult with one of their doctors and get a prescription.

    I applied to 2 of them but was told because I had a history of gastroparesis I couldn’t go through them and had to go through a face-to-face doctor, so I’m waiting to hear back from my gastric bypass doctor’s office.

    1. GigglyPuff*

      Be careful though because compounded meds have had reports on them being formulated wrong or fraudulently.

  55. banana*

    For LW #4! This is a super common fear in a long drawn out process- that taking the first step means committing to the last step. What’s the very smallest first step you can do that nudges you in the right direction? What if you just agreed to spend an hour or two updating your resume? Without pressuring yourself to send it out right away….

  56. tjames*

    LW 1 should be grateful to be working at a company that doesn’t fire people for poor performance because if they did, she would be near the top of the list for such contemptuous behavior.

  57. el l*

    OP4:
    Of course it’s hard to get motivated. You’ve never done this before, and the process will mean a lot of nerves, time, and rejections.

    But remind yourself of 2 things. First, especially if you’re young and it’s 2024, you can expect to change jobs MANY times over your career. No way you’re staying here forever even if all was perfect, which is most certainly is not. And that’s the second thing: You have to catch yourself and say stop when you rationalize or make excuses for the current job. Remind yourself instead how much better life will be when you have a good job.

  58. Kheldara*

    LW4, I am literally in my last week of Hell Job after finally taking the plunge and doing exactly this, having been terrified to for basically exactly the same reasons. I have been in the job I am leaving, getting treated increasingly badly, for SEVENTEEN YEARS. And now I am going to a better paid job, doing work I love more, where they are super excited to have me, and it feels absolutely unbelievable – like, I am looking in the mirror every day just being like ‘is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?’. It feels SO GOOD and I never comment here but I just wanted to add my voice to the probably many comments telling you you can do it – I know because I am doing it right now!!! I believe in you. And if you do this it will do SO much for your belief in yourself, too. Good luck!

    1. Shiny Penny*

      Congratulations, you are inspiring for sure!
      You overcame the dreaded sense of hopelessness, took sustained action, and won the outcome you deserved. This is exactly the kind of story that’s so helpful to read here, so thanks for sharing.
      Here’s wishing similar success to the LW as well!

  59. BL*

    Given the state of the world right now, I suspect letter 1 is not real. The comment at the end about a man being told this makes me think this even further.

    That said, when I was very new in my career, I was in a meeting with about 30 people and I did an eye roll, right at the very second the presenter glanced at me. I don’t even remember if it was directed at them. I got pulled into a disciplinary meeting immediately after.

  60. Bossy*

    I am dead! As an eye roller extraordinaire, there’s no way I would disrespect someone while giving feedback of any kind, and definitely don’t do it to children.
    LW I’m pretty shocked you think it’s ok to do this, so just know that it isn’t from one eye roller to another.
    Things that help my attitude (because it is actually on you!) when dealing with issues or giving negative feedback is just, know that you’re trying to kindly point things out, everyone wants a good resolution, surely if the person knew how to do the thing correctly they would have…thoughts like that have helped reduce my ire, which helps to reduce the eye rolling. Luckily I live in NYC so have plenty of other opportunities for eye rolling outside of work.

  61. I'll have the blue plate special, please.*

    OP 1: Please don’t roll your eyes. I’ve had coworkers do this to me and I’ve spotted it. It made me what to do less with them. It’s a turnoff.

  62. commensally*

    #4 When I was in your situation, I got through it by reminding myself that getting my resume and materials up to date wasn’t committing to anything, it was just being ready in case the perfect opportunity suddenly appeared.

    And then once I had enough prep done that individual applications weren’t a huge effort, I did applications out of spite. Every time my manager did something particularly awful I converted my feelings about it into anger, started browsing the job postings, and then turned the anger into a job application. It honestly helped a lot with dealing with the manager even when I wasn’t getting any responses to the applications that I could put my emotions into job apps rather than anxiety and self-recriminations, and telling myself I was doing it mostly to spite the manager helped with the anxiety about whether I could actually get a new job at all.

    (Also, it is really important to keep in mind that sort of manager has a huge incentive to convince their staff that it’s not worth looking for other jobs, and your perception on that has probably been very twisted.)

    1. Blue Horizon*

      This is good advice.

      As someone who has had the same problem (and I have a long list of experience, so it’s not unique to younger workers) I sometimes find it helpful to think of it as practice. If your inner voice is telling you not to apply because you couldn’t possibly do the job or don’t have the skills, remind yourself that none of that is actually an issue unless you’re offered the job. Worry about it when you need to, and not before.

      Begin by practicing looking at job ads, making a resume, and writing cover letters. If you get called in for one or more interviews, practice your interview skills. Keep it in hypothetical land, like taking an exam, and just see how you do and what you can learn from it. What’s the worst that could happen? You get told no. You’ve still gained some useful and valuable experience and you’ll be more comfortable and better at it next time.

      I found this quite useful for detaching from my feelings about it all, even to the point of being able to answer questions about why I was good for the job or why they should hire me. Could hypothetical me do this job well, in a fictional scenario? Suppose the answer is yes. How would I argue it? I don’t have to actually do the job yet, just answer questions in an interview. It’s like an exam.

      The time when you will eventually need to decide is if you’re presented with an offer, but you’d be amazed how much of a difference it makes to your mindset knowing that your potential employer has evaluated you and decided you can do it (to the point where they preferred you to all other candidates, even).

  63. the eyes have it*

    I find my own eye-rolling to be reflexive, but not unconscious. I find that I have to work hard to control it, it is just that reflexive. Plus, I am surrounded by incompetent fools, so that doesn’t help. Working on it.

  64. Spreadsheet Queen*

    # 1- Yes, it is unprofessional to roll your eyes, no matter how much the situation deserves it! I used to have a very bad habit of this. And yes, it would START involuntarily, but I could recognize it and CATCH it before I completed the full roll, remain looking up for a hitch, then refocus. Yes, some people still read it as “rolling my eyes” even though I didn’t hit a full roll. But the important part is that I got to where I’d recognize what was happening earlier in the roll and after a while I could mostly head it off entirely. With practice, I’ll be you can too. (I’d bet that if you looked at where the behavior initially came from in your life, besides just that period of being a teenager, you’ll see that it’s associated with exasperating outside stuff you don’t have control over. Look at the comments re how to handle that lack of control. If people aren’t doing their part, go to your bosses, and see if they can either ease your mind that it’s not important or solve the problem. They DO have some power and control here!)

  65. noncommittally anonymous*

    On average, it takes 15 years and $1 BILLION dollars to bring a drug to market. 95% of possible drugs fail in the process. It’s an astonishingly expensive business.

  66. raincoaster*

    “If you truly can’t control outward signs of contempt, you’ll need to find another method of…” making a living. Management relies heavily on people skills, and those are, perhaps, not your strong suit.

  67. GigglyPuff*

    Y’all as someone who is diabetic, obese and been taking Ozempic since 2020, there are no longer supply chain issues according to my doctors and pharmacists early this year or even late last year.

    1. MerrilyWeScrollAlong*

      My mom is on Ozempic for diabetes and she still sometimes has issues getting her shots consistently, so it may depend on where you live. I haven’t taken any GLP-1s since my company doesn’t cover them, but I was prescribed them by my doctor (before we discovered they weren’t covered) and she told me to make sure I had all of the doses for the first 2 months in hand because there were still issues getting the medication and the pharmacist backed this up. It’s definitely still an issue, just maybe not as bad as it was previously.

    2. Joana*

      It can vary by area, honestly. I’m on a stimulant medication and have had no problems getting it, but other people I know who are on the same or similar ones have definitely said there was a scarcity in the area to the point they couldn’t get it for several months in a row.

    3. SupplyChainWoes*

      Not true. I had problems getting shots 3x this year, and a fourth time I only got them because the pharmacist put me first in line when he got one box in since I’d been having so much trouble and he felt bad because one of my other major meds was also unavailable. That’s out of 10 fills.

  68. Spreadsheet Queen*

    L4 – First, give yourself some grace. It absolutely does not help you to feel bad about not moving forward yet. That’s just taking up part of your energy and brain space. LOTS of people take some time (sometimes a LOT of time, like a couple of years!) to get ramped up on a job search they are aware on some level would be good for them to do because ____. Those lots of people include plenty of mid and senior level people who are really good at what they do and should be in demand in their fields. CHANGE IS HARD. And there are a lot of what ifs.
    Just keep making the small steps, poking around, being friendly with people in your industry when you meet them, etc. Maybe go to your professional association things (if you have one in your area). Work on the easy section of your resume first so you feel like you’re accomplishing something. Make lists & don’t worry about perfection right now.
    Sooner or later there WILL be a trigger that fires you up. A favorite coworker might leave. You might get a new boss and figure if you have to prove yourself all over again, you might as well do it somewhere else for more money. Your current boss might cross one too many lines on the wrong day. There might be layoffs in another department and it will seem like the time.
    YOU GOT THIS. You don’t have to do it today, but the baby steps toward being “ready” will serve you well. And for crying out loud, do not feel “guilty” or whatever however long it takes to get the internal push. (That said, if you’re in an abusive workplace and need some outside help to get you there, or your coping mechanisms are hurting you, there is no shame in seeing a counselor or something to help reframe. It can be extra hard when you are crushed and exhausted from a truly horrible environment and THAT IS NOT YOUR FAULT.)

  69. Agency Alumna*

    LW #2 – Chiming into say that I had to go through the exact same process to get my WeGovy RX last fall. Mostly I was just annoyed that I had to track things on their app and meet with their coaches every 2 weeks – I was doing these healthy habits they were pushing, just not seeing results! That’s why I wanted meds! Talking to the coach was helpful sometimes, if I just needed suggestions on how to handle certain issues.

    I’m one year in and now don’t have to check in as often. IDK what will happen next year/when I hit the 2 year mark – supposedly that’s when I should be tapering off. But, I’ll still have the condition (PCOS) that put me on the meds. I guess I’ll cross that bridge when I get there.

    So no info, just solidarity.

    1. NoTaperingOff*

      You know you can’t taper off, right? You have to take the meds for the rest of your life or the weight comes back.

      1. fhqwhgads*

        My understanding is if you’re using it for weight loss alone and not diabetes, the current recommendation is to taper off after 2 years to avoid certain side effects. Yes the weight will come back, but it’s still considered the thing to do to avoid certain outcomes.

  70. Scotty*

    Regarding the Mounjaro prescription, are you suffering from type 2 diabetes? If so have your current Dr. resubscribe the medicine as diabetic medicine, not weight loss medicine.

    1. Squirrels!*

      I was actually wondering this after reading #2. Are they requiring the same steps for people taking the medication for diabetes?

  71. sunbathing squirrel*

    LW#3: I had this same conundrum come up this very week. A couple years ago, I joined a new team, where it was a long-standing tradition for team members to kick in money for things like cupcake treats or gift card on someone’s birthday. Now, I grew up low income, have always had tight budgets, and never liked the idea of giving money at work (I’m working to MAKE money, not spend it), but given that I was a new member of an established team, I went along with it. But this week with another new birthday popping up just when I am budgeting for the upcoming holidays and Christmas was the last straw. I’m going to be putting an end to this at the VERY start of January to set expectations for birthday in 2025. We can pass around a nice card (which I think is actually plenty) or maybe treat the birthday person to a normal lunch or something if there’s resistance to just a card, but no more actual gifts or money passing between colleagues.

  72. KC*

    LW#1 is so timely for me! I’m encountering an interesting work conflict where one person is a Latina who rolls her eyes a lot. When she gets called out for it, she says that its a cultural thing that isn’t meant to be taken seriously or as disrespect. I’m a white woman (and fortunately not the one responsible for addressing this conflict) but I’m curious if the commentariat has thoughts on this. I especially want to consider the fact that a lot of things framed as “being professional” are often racialized (e.g., natural hairstyles for black women) but I also want to support respect and clear communication in the workplace. Thoughts?

    1. Angstrom*

      I’d say it’s a “know your audience” thing. In casual conversation with people who know her, or where it’s obvious that she’s doing it to have fun being dramatic? Fine. In a work situation where it could be taken badly? Not so good. One has to be aware of how one’s actions could be interpreted, and adjust accordingly. One doesn’t have to be a robot, but part of being professional is knowing when it’s ok to be flamboyant and when to tone it down.
      She’s not being called out because she’s a Latina. It would be inappropriate behavior from anyone.

    2. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      Eye-rolling is an action aimed externally at someone else and happens at intervals (even if v short ones!) whereas a natural hairstyle is for the woman herself and does not change if she is alone.

    3. Cthulhu’s Librarian*

      Would you accept the “cultural” argument if it was given by a coworker wolf-whistling at female colleagues? Or someone who kept saying nasty shit to a coworker who wouldn’t wear a hijab? Or for someone who kept saying they’d do something tomorrow, but never actually doing it? What about the coworker who swears up a blue streak every time they speak? Or the person who spits and yells in someone else’s face?

      Cultural behaviors are learned behaviors. If they are inappropriate to the context in question, it is on the person who learned them to curb the behaviors, not on the rest of the world to tolerate them.

  73. MerrilyWeScrollAlong*

    OP# 2 – I’m sorry you’re going through this! My company never offered coverage for GLP-1s even though my doctor recommended them for me. However, they do cover Contrave, and I have been seeing a lot of success using that medication instead. Obviously, you and your doctor know what’s best for you, but maybe see if they think that could be a good alternative if you end up losing coverage. For me Wegovy was going to be $1200 per injection without coverage so it wasn’t an option, but I obviously can’t speak for your personal scenario.

  74. cz*

    Wow on #1. First of all, are you in a supervisory capacity to be offering this “feedback”? But the rolling of eyes, unbelievably rude! No question.

  75. esquared*

    LW#2, I feel your pain. My company is also rolling out a “weight management” program in the new year only for those on GLP-1 meds.
    My issue with it is that it’s the only type of medication that my insurer requires a “life style management” program for a drug that already requires a prior authorization for coverage. My physician can prescribe, but for insurance to cover, it had to be approved including rationale for why other (cheaper) medications were not an option or had been tried, what life style modifications had been tried, required a bmi over 30 (changing to 33 in next year) or 27 (changing to 30) with a weight linked condition (think high blood pressure, diabetes, fatty liver). So anyone wanting to take it for “look good naked” last 15 lb weight loss vs actual health related weight loss were already weeded out of coverage.
    Basically I have to trade my health information (we are required do labs, meet with a dietician, link a scale to the app and other things yet to be rolled out) and for the “care team” to agree that you should receive coverage. I am not aware of any other medication covered on our plan that requires this level of intrusion into the patient/provider relationship including health information (ie weight, lab work) not just a provider certifying patient meets the criteria in place for coverage (bmi, health condition, etc).
    For the record, I have lost 50 lbs in 34 weeks (which is just about 1.5lbs/week and exactly the rate my dr wants me to lose), seen significant improvement in my blood pressure, gut health, mental health, blood sugar control and liver enzymes. I am also more active, have less aches and pains and am a happier (and therefore healthier) person and better employee.
    I’ve had very minor side effects and all of the good habits I had – exercising, eating in moderation, etc are more reinforced and more effective because I can move more and be less food driven.
    These drugs are not a magic bullet, are not for everyone, and there are a lot of people looking to use them for minor weight loss, but insurance is not covering those. Those are the people that were taking the diabetes versions off label and causing shortages, not those of us taking the approved weight loss versions for an issue we have struggled with for our entire adult lives. I’m lucky that I *could* afford to take a compounded version if my insurance stops my coverage, but by every health marker out there, this drug is making me less of a risk of expensive care, but to keep it, I have to be willing to share my private health information with providers not of my choosing.

  76. Ami*

    LW1 – If someone was rolling their eyes at me while telling me what they thought I’d done wrong yet again, it would make me strongly disinclined to follow their advice, and demotivated to work harder or strive to improve. Why on earth would I strive to please someone being so rude to me, or take professional advice from someone who can’t demonstrate professional behavior? If you can’t put a lid on your open contempt for your coworkers, your feedback is definitely doing more harm than good.

  77. Bike Walk Barb*

    A different take on the gift cards: Giving something around Christmas centers that as THE holiday. This doesn’t acknowledge that not everyone observes it. Yes, many people do–and that means this particular gift comes at a time when they’re getting other gifts too.

    If your company has a fund for employee morale consider how best to use that and move it away from a religious holiday as the reason. Recognizing each person’s individual contribution is great; I’m suggesting it could be decoupled from a specific cultural reference that drowns out all the others this time of year.

    Maybe a gift card (of equal amount) at each employee’s birthday or the anniversary of their first day of work with the organization? Make up your own office holiday that marks the end of February because that’s a dark time of year?

    Or give people a thank-you during or after a particular time of year that represents an overload for your industry. I’m thinking of CPA firms during tax season as an example. I once worked at one as a temp, back when people could smoke indoors. I still remember the chain-smoking CPA whose tiny desktop air purifier shorted out and caught fire. He calmly reached over, poured part of a cup of cold coffee on it to douse the flames, and kept working.

  78. Bess*

    LW1, someone else’s poor performance doesn’t lower the bar for you to show respect and decency when working with them on it. Most people pick up on those body signals very easily and there’s nothing that erodes relationships faster than contempt. It’s part of your job to be civil and professional, if not kind, so you’re sort of failing that part of your job when you give in to those behaviors.

  79. Jane*

    #2 – My insurance doesn’t cover weight loss meds either, so I get it compounded. The compound is not covered by insurance either but is a fraction of the cost. Just one thing to think about!

    1. Aglet*

      #2 – I get that you might not want to switch meds when one is working, but if you are open to switching, Victoza is not as expensive. I know someone who gets it for less than their copay would be, although they’re buying it at a low income clinic where meds are subsidized.

  80. N.*

    Can we please stop the misinformation that being fat makes you more in danger of developing diabetes/heart issues/other diseases when no study has actually found that to be the case? it just stigmatizes and victim blames people that aren’t skinny, who already have major issues getting treated for things already because of societal and medical fatphobia

  82. Lorax*

    LW#4, one way I’ve dealt with this is by doing “low barrier” tasks first. Basically, this means going on Indeed or LinkedIn and “liking” or “saving” jobs that sound interesting as a first step. (I do this as before-bed scrolling. It’s very chill, no commitment kind of engagement.) After that, the platform might send me a reminder about the job, or I might find something that sticks with me. At that point, I might click “apply.” Note: applying via Indeed or LinkedIn is not usually the best way to apply for a job. At least in my field, most employers want folks to apply directly with the organization via email or some other system. But for me, clicking “apply” is less about really going after the job, and more about breaking the mental barrier around job application itself. All you have to do is click one button. You can even immediately set the phone down after, if you’re like me and have a mini-panic attack second guessing yourself. Just click, and walk away. It’s about practicing the motion of “throwing your hat in the ring” to develop a sort of muscle memory around that action. I *have* gotten follow-up from clicking “apply,” usually something along the lines of “I see you have interest in this position. I’d encourage you to go through our hiring process, which is XYZ.” but also sometimes someone reaching out to do a phone screen. I once even got fast tracked for a hard-to-fill government position this way! So it’s not a total waste of time, even though my primary reason for engaging via these platforms really boils down to “research” and “practice.” So I’d start there. Job application will become more of a habit with time, so you’ll be in a better place to actually tailor application materials once you’re not hung up on the front end. Also, by being on LinkedIn and Indeed more, you’ll develop a better sense of market rates, in-demand skills, etc. By the time you find something you really want, you won’t be paralyzed by the idea of job application itself, and you’ll be more empowered by knowledge of the job market!

  83. Roland*

    EyeRoller, if I worked there, and you roll your eyes at/BecauseOf me, it might be a long time before I talk with you again.

  84. Pink Geek*

    LW4: Don’t think of it as starting a job hunt. Just think of it as updating your resume. It’s a good idea to keep your resume up to date, just in cased. Then think of it as considering where you’d like to work if you went somewhere else. Then just see if you can find their job boards… then… if you see one you like… practice writing a cover letter?

    I’ve been where you are. It’s so hard to find the energy after a long day of just surviving. Don’t try to tackle it all at once.

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