we’re supposed to buy liquor and ski passes for our bosses

by Alison Green on November 25, 2024

A reader writes:

Last year, soon after I’d started a new job as a mid-level manager at a 30-person firm, I was surprised to get an email before the holidays requesting a donation for a surprise group gift from all the employees to the three partners who head my firm. Those partners are lovely people, but they also earn far more money than the rest of us do. I opted not to donate, but I assume most other people in the office contributed.

The group gift was presented to the partners at the company holiday party and included ski passes and expensive alcohol.

This appears to be an annual tradition, so I’m wondering if I have the political capital to push back on it this year. I feel weird going around to coworkers and asking “how do you feel about this?” to get people on my side, but expecting people to contribute money to buy ski passes and liquor for their bosses feels really icky to me.

You can read my answer to this question at Slate today, as well as to these:

  • I’m worried my coworkers will be inappropriate at the holiday party
  • How can we make sure office gift exchanges are fair?
  • Can we move our holiday party out of December?
  • Holiday parties when you have remote employees
  • Should I expect a thank-you when I give employees gifts?
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{ 151 comments }

{ 151 comments… read them below }

    1. Chocolate Teapot*

      Ski related gifts seem to be a theme here. There was the classic story of a minimum wage employee being asked to contribute to sending the CEO and his family on a skiing trip when CEO could have perfectly well paid for it himself several times over.

      1. A Simple Narwhal*

        Yes, I thought that this was that letter for a second! I vaguely remember the person collecting the money was like “oh he just works so hard, doesn’t he deserve this vacation?”. Barf. He can pay for it with his massive salary rather than taking it out of his employees’ pockets.

      2. Smurfette*

        Right? I mean, people who can’t afford to go skiing should definitely be sponsoring someone else’s ski trip /s

    2. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      Yeah. I’m baffled that I’ve often read here about gifting up. I’ve never worked anywhere this would be allowed/ Pressured gifting up particularly stinks.

      Is this field-specific or just a (hopefully dying out) US business custom?
      I think maybe gift-giving in general is more common in the US than in most of Europe. Even gifting down: none of my managers has ever done more than pay for the first round of drinks (and we were cheap dates, no desires for shots or cocktails, just beer or wine or soft drinks).

      1. TheBunny*

        I think anything upwards is awful. If I could successfully remove “Boss’s Day” from the calendar I’d do so in a heartbeat. It’s awkward. I don’t need accolades from my team because they feel bad if they don’t give them. I’d rather they tell me they appreciate my support on a random Tuesday.

      2. Ellis Bell*

        Yeah, I’ve had bosses give out thank you chocolate, or flowers for special occasions, but I’ve never worked anywhere where fancy gifts flowed in either direction. Who sets these things up for their well paid bosses?! If that’s not brown-nosing I don’t know what is.

        1. honeygrim*

          I don’t know who sets them up, but I imagine that if the office is small enough or people have worked there forever, people might not realize how weird it is to buy gifts for their boss.

          My very first office job was as a receptionist for a real estate office. I was just out of college and had only ever worked retail before that. One of the owners and his wife were expecting a baby, so everyone in the office received an invite to the shower. The invite included where they were registered, which turned out to be the most exclusive clothing boutique in our small town.

          Being young and naïve at the time, I assumed that I was supposed to buy something from the registry for my boss and his wife. I honestly didn’t think about how gross it was for them to ask me to buy them a gift, though I was really weirded out to have to go into this store that I had never shopped in before (nor did I ever shop there afterwards) to buy really fancy clothes for a baby to spit up on and outgrow in about a minute and a half. To this day I wish someone had stopped me from spending quite a substantial percentage of my very tiny paycheck on a gift for my wealthy employer and his wife.

        2. LifebeforeCorona*

          I worked with a woman who could give a master class in brown-nosing. One year she collected money from co-workers for a Christmas gift for the owner. She presented it to the owner with only her name on the gift. People were furious, luckily I was gone before the next Christmas so I don’t know if history repeated itself.

        3. Disappointed Australien*

          I’ve worked in a couple of places where the owners did the “we like skiing, so we’re taking the whole company skiing for a Friday” sort of thing which kind of worked when my partner’s company did it because they paid for everything except alcohol. The times I’ve been invited it’s been “we’ll meet up at the ski field, the company’s contribution is you getting paid for the day”.

          OTOH I have also worked in one company where the alternative to a day like that was cash. The owner was not surprised that most of us took the day off and the money instead of… I think it was a day at a golf course?

      3. UKDancer*

        I never worked anywhere where people bought their bosses gifts. I mean when a well liked boss retires there’s usually a collection but it’s not mandatory. Definitely never done Bosses Day (not a thing anywhere ive worked in the UK thankfully).

        My bosses have never routinely given me anything. I had one boss 2 companies back who gave each team member an M&S voucher for £10 for Christmas which was nice but that was unusual.

        1. Chas*

          I’m also in the UK and I’m much the same as you. The only gift I ever gave any of my bosses was a retirement gift (and that was a case of everyone in our small group chipping in £5 each to get him a beer glass with “enjoy retirement!” on it). And my bosses tend to just give us each a box of chocolate or biscuits worth around £5-10 for Christmas.

      4. Benihana scene stealer*

        I think it’s ok if you’re doing a secret santa or something and you get your boss a $5 starbucks gift card or similar. A ski trip though??

    3. 2 and a Possible*

      At my place, Staff must fund the potluck.

      If the fund collection is doesn’t yield enough to cover costs, Staff is repeatedly reminded Management had to make up the shortfall.

      3. ursula*

        Aren’t staff inherently funding every potluck, by bringing all the food (which they have paid for and prepared)? This is why I feel weird about potlucks as a workplace celebration, even though I personally love to cook for a crowd. I guess maybe some employers provide some extras/drinks/etc – is that what they’re making staff fund, on top of everything else?

    4. Lea*

      lol every time I see these I’m like ‘so that’s why this is expressly forbid in policy where I work’

      Yikes! My firmest belief is that bosses should be picking up the tab not employees

    2. Generic Name*

      The liquor and ski passes one is reminiscent of a past letter where the LW also worked for a company where a collection went around to send the owner and their family on an all expenses paid ski trip. Just why do companies do this. Well….I know why. Some companies are run by people who have no boundaries and feel entitled to being given expensive things by people who make less than them and who work for them. It has a “gifts for the king” vibe to me.

  3. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

    re: moving holiday party. I worked for a while in hospitality (wine) – the last quarter of the year is 40%+ of our revenue, so it was routine to have parties in January or February when things slowed down significantly.

    1. GenericNameHere*

      We did this at the law firm I worked at and the folks that went seemed to really enjoy having a gathering that did not interfere with family plans and all the other trappings of December celebrations/commercialization. And as Alison mentioned, it was a lot cheaper.

      I will add for the remote employees LW – what you are doing sounds perfect. Even without being remote, my preference would be for a gift card over a holiday party.

    2. SALC*

      I worked for a company where retail is a large part of their business and the holiday shopping season is insane, so the company’s entire calendar reflects that including always having a “post holiday party” in January. They also do most of the ‘year’ stuff from April to March so the distractions of performance reviews, promotions, open enrollment for insurance etc are all in Jan/Feb/March instead of at the end of the year

    3. JustHereForTheCheese*

      We did this at a law firm I worked at in the past and it was very nice. It was more a celebration of us and a chance to have a nice meal on the company’s dime, without all the particular December holiday decorations/themes/expectations. Plus it was a lot cheaper for the company, meaning we got upgraded food/drink options and still at a savings for the firm relative to a November/December event. I also appreciate places that hold these during the workday instead of taking up an evening – especially if it is around end of year/holidays/etc.

    4. HonorBox*

      From a different side of hospitality – food service, event venues – a January event is really great too because after New Year’s people tend to go out less for a bit so the revenue (even at a lower price) is extremely helpful in starting off Q1 well.

      1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

        Yeah – February is always a terrible month, and the annual discount check from one of our suppliers was such a godsend.

    5. Sparky*

      The last company I worked for did the opposite of this — they moved their fiscal year so it started in February instead! Though we were fully remote, so this was more to facilitate time off than holiday parties.

  4. Chairman of the Bored*

    I owe my marriage to flirting with a colleague at an office holiday party, and would have taken a very dim view of any boss who decided to make it their business to get in the way of that.

    1. FricketyFrack*

      I would also take a dim view but for opposite reasons – I have a coworker that I literally can’t even speak to without people making assumptions that we’re flirting and it’s exhausting. He has a long term girlfriend and I’m asexual, so we’re definitely not – we’re usually talking about politics (or, gasp! work).

      Anyway, anyone approaching us to say, “oh I’m worried you’ll get drunk and inappropriate,” would be reported to HR in a hot second.

      1. Quinalla*

        Yup, young women especially get accused of flirting any time they are friendly with another person, it’s obnoxious. I don’t get it much anymore as I’m in my 40s, but got it a lot in my teens and 20s as I have always been in male dominated activities/classes/career and have many male friends cause that’s who I’m around mostly and yeah, gets so old.

        It may be that the OP is correct and they are actually flirting, but I’ve seen this misinterpretation happen A LOT. And regardless, there is NOTHING for them to do here.

        1. Sandi*

          When I was the only woman working with groups of men, I’d occasionally get comments from others (always men) that women and men couldn’t ‘just’ be friends, and I’d reply that if it were true then I’d have no friends. Thankfully the men who made those comments were idiots!

        2. Forrest Rhodes*

          Agree with all you said, Quinalla, and as one who’s well into the fourth quarter of life, I can commiserate, having spent a lot of time as the only female in large groups.
          And heck, even as a harmless, mostly funny-looking, gray-haired little old lady I sometimes hesitate to chat cordially with a male person in the grocery store—for fear he (or someone) will think I’m trying to pick him up!
          It’s well beyond annoying.

        3. FricketyFrack*

          I’m 40, but I’ve been single by choice for almost a decade. I think people deep down don’t really believe that anyone, especially women, can be happy alone, so literally any time a new man starts who is A) even roughly in the same age range and B) moderately attractive, everyone immediately tries to matchmake. I’m not even exclusively or primarily interested in men!

          It’s definitely better than it was in my 20s, don’t get me wrong, but I think I’m also a lot less patient with it now.

      2. Witch of Oz*

        Ugh same. Back in my 20s/30s, just being basically civil to a man in the workplace would get me accused of flirting. And even if it was a male coworker I could. not. abide (and did a poor job of hiding it) I’d get “Ooh you’re so mean to him, you must really like him”. Very tedious, immature and UNTRUE!

    2. A Simple Narwhal*

      I think the LW’s main concern is that the two colleagues are already in relationships with other people.

      They absolutely need to butt out of this situation(/continue to do nothing) but it’s not completely nuts that they see a potential trainwreck and wanted to know if they should attempt to do anything to prevent it.

      1. Clisby*

        But – what could they do to prevent it? Also, the letter says this is an employees-only party, so presumably no one else from either long-term relationship will be showing up.

        2. Falling Diphthong*

          What could they do to prevent it?
          As a baseline, it should involve crawling through air vents. I also see a role for the Elf on the Shelf and something that pulls in the Hot Frosty movie. And cheap ass rolls

        4. A Simple Narwhal*

          Exactly, they can’t! I think it would be absolutely nuts to do anything, I just think that seeing a potential problem and wondering if they should do anything to prevent it, isn’t bad in itself.

          …also just noting that just because their partners won’t be attending doesn’t mean that cheating wouldn’t still be bad. But it’s absolutely none of the LW’s business.

      2. Ellis Bell*

        I got married super young, and this combined with the fact that I was massively friendly and outgoing (I’m much surlier these days) led an older colleague to pull me aside for one of these preventative pre-Christmas party chats. I was just massively bemused and felt more than a little bit patronised. Apparently you can’t be married/young/ and also make jokes with male coworkers. I hadn’t any flirtatious feelings or intentions in the slightest, but I was possibly too kind in laughing when he told bad jokes. Wow, she was so worried though.

      3. Cookie monster*

        This is still so far out of bounds to even touch. Unless or until there is a conflict, (and as long as they are consenting adults who aren’t in each other’s chain of command, a conflict is difficult to prove), then there is nothing to be done to “prevent it” imminent train wreck or not. People have been become involved with co-workers for as long as people have been working together and to just assume that someone is going to be inappropriate because alcohol is being served is strange. Adults should be able to conduct themselves accordingly in a professional environment, alcohol of not. Also, whether two people are in other relationships is SO none of their business.

      4. anon and a little sad*

        Still not the LW’s problem, as long as there is no work-related conflict. The relationships might be over or not what they seem.

        I met my spouse at work when we were both in relationships. He was in the process of getting divorced when I met him, so technically married but no longer committed. I was in a bad relationship and meeting him gave me the courage to end it. Like Chairman of the Bored, I would not have been happy if someone interfered with the wonderful relationship that was developing between my co-worker and me. (We were together over 36 years, married 34 years until he recently passed away.)

      1. Anonymous For Now*

        In 1862, Emily Dickinson wrote, “The heart wants what it wants, or else it does not care,”

        Still true.

  5. I'm just here for the cats!!*

    The Letter Writer who was worried that the coworkers would be inappropriate is wild. It’s a huge jump from being friendly possibly flirting to getting drunk and giving lap dances! What has happened before at company parties to make the OP Think this is the natural step they will take

    1. Nuke*

      Not to mention that lots of times, there’s the assumption that two people just having a conversation are “flirting”. I’m an asexual woman and get along with men just fine as friends with no romantic interest in men at all, and the amount of assumptions people have made in the past is absolutely wild.

      1. Kay*

        I’m not asexual and also get along with men as friends just fine. One of my best guy friends was a groomsman at my wedding!

        This person seriously needs to butt out.

    2. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      To be fair, it was Alison’s response that brought up the drunken lap dances. LW was mostly just fretting that flirting might happen and some unknown connection could happen.

    3. Antilles*

      Re-read the letter. There’s nothing from the LW making that huge of a leap. LW just asked whether she could pre-emptively say something about “appropriate party behavior” with no specifics what that meant. The part about the drunken dancing was Alison’s description afterwards, not in the LW’s original question.

    5. Person from the Resume*

      Lap dances and drunken shenanigans are references to specific letters AAM has received in the past and crazy holiday part shenanigans. They’re crazy, but those are the kind of letters that make it into an advice column. Staid, boring, fine, friendly, professional holiday parties do not make the advice columns.

      Also some of these were solicited for wildest holiday party stories posts too so may harken back to last century when things might be a bit more alcohol fueled.

  6. Dry January*

    I’m not a huge fan of holiday parties bleeding into January. I go to a bunch of parties for vendors and funders, and in recent years some have started showing up on the calendar before Thanksgiving, presumably for similar reasons (to spread out the season to make it less stressful). But no matter how much it’s spread out, by the time I get to New Year’s I’m totally over it and really want to get back to a normal work (and workout) schedule. I’d be annoyed if my company party extended that season further.

    1. Peanut Hamper*

      That’s part of the point, though. By moving them into January you can ensure that these are “end of the year” or “beginning of the year” parties rather than holiday parties, and not have the religious overtones that so many “secular holiday” parties have.

      Personally, I’m in favor of a January party. It’s dark, it’s cold, and there’s nothing to look forward to. My family is going to have a pie party in January just to make whatever pie didn’t get made during the holidays.

      1. Dry January*

        I’m not convinced that branding it something other than a “holiday party” makes me feel better about what feels like another in a long string of forced festivities. National Pizza Week and Snowmobile Safety Awareness Week are apparently in January and secular, and I don’t want want to celebrate them any more than I want to go to a 15th holiday party or a first “beginning of the year” party. Maybe your pie party could change a curmudgeon’s mind though, who knows.

        1. JHunz*

          I think the majority of offices end up with one party and don’t have to deal with a string of vendor parties. That’s probably contributing to your view of it quite a bit.

          1. AnotherOne*

            yeah, my office has the option of add’l holidays in december. i could probably go to around 10.

            but most of my colleagues go max 3. and even than plenty of people only go to our department party.

          2. Dry January*

            Yeah, the verdict is in and this is a me thing. For me it feels like a gauntlet and the finish line is January 1, anything after is gratuitous. Add the food and fitness issues on that (a bunch of time I’m obligated to spend around delicious food and not at the gym) and yeah, like I said. I’d go to a January company party but I’d be annoyed and not a big fan.

            1. Cookie monster*

              It’s a me thing too. Between Thanksgiving and New Years each year, we have four family birthdays plus my wedding anniversary in addition to all the holidays. By Jan 1, I am completely OVER IT. I just want to spend the next two months hibernating and getting back into a healthy eating/exercise routine.

          3. LL*

            Yes, this. I’ve only ever had to go to two work holiday parties in one season: 1 for my entire org and 1 for my department/group. And they were always during the work day. No vendor parties, nothing. I’d love to do a January party instead.

        2. Evan88*

          Sorry, but if you have the chance to go to a snowmobile safety awareness party and you pass, I’m going to question your judgement.

      2. ferrina*

        My family has a traditional January party, and it really is a relief. It’s lower pressure because gifts and holiday etiquette aren’t part of the equation any more- it’s just food and spending time together.

        That said, I do look forward to my work’s holiday party in December. It’s a really low-key, optional event.

    2. The Rural Juror*

      I actually appreciate ours moving to January this year. Last year I had to choose between our work celebration (held at a nice hotel with a VERY nice dinner served) or attending an annual gathering with close friends who I consider family. I would like to have gone to both.

    3. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      Hard disagree. We sometimes had a holiday party in mid-late January, which I much preferred to December:
      – it avoided irritating those of other religions or atheists
      – it avoided added yet another event to a busy social month
      – it helped brighten up an otherwise gloomy January

      However, noone had more than 1-2 beers at our holiday parties – we paid for ourselves and it was more about the food and the laughter – and we had several Muslims who didn’t drink at all, so if anyone wanted a Dry January that was no problem

    4. Antilles*

      If a company believes that the holiday party is useful to morale or as a marketing event, having it in December isn’t great because it’s such a packed month already that you’ll have a lot of people unable to join because of various overlapping commitments.

      You may find it annoying, but attendance is often *much* better if the party is held in January rather than December.

    5. Ellis Bell*

      I think you’re misunderstanding this as an extension to December parties, when it’s supposed to be one party only happening in January, instead of December. If there’s multiple parties being planned right through winter without thought for employees time, that’s a different matter.

      1. Dry January*

        Maybe I’m misunderstanding, at the very least my situation is different. My spouse and I both spend a lot of time this season making face-time with vendors and funders, which I consider to be “work-based holiday parties” like the letter writer stated. Apparently the quantity of them is to an extent that’s uncommon in other industries though. But for us it’s at least a party per week in December, often 2 or 3, and now this year 2 before Thanksgiving. It’s tiresome by January is all I’m saying.

        1. Ellis Bell*

          I genuinely feel for you; since people are saying one party is too much during the busy December period!

    6. hohumdrum*

      couldn’t relate less, but then I do not workout nor do I enjoy working.

      Would happily attend a holiday party in mid-march if there’ll be food and I can collect my paycheck.

  7. Captain's Fleet*

    Oh man, we have a new(ish) supervisor who started here a couple of months ago who gets us unwanted gifts for our birthdays. She approached our more senior management to ask if there was a budget for this and was shut down and told that “We don’t really do that kind of thing [individual birthday gifts] here.” She polled our team, and we also told her that we’re not really into team gift giving; at best, we might bring in some baked goods to share with everyone, but none of us is birthday-in-the-office people.

    She has persisted and is buying (with her own money) a card for the department to sign and a jar of candies to give to the recipient. The gift giving is clearly for her, not for us. I am curious what will happen when her birthday comes and goes without similar fanfare.

  8. Falling Diphthong*

    One plus of the January party is that epiphany is a cold, dark time in the northern hemisphere. (Per my favorite Connie Willis novella, Epiphany.) People often welcome the chance to have some cheery human contact that isn’t hemmed in by the need to fit everything into a Holiday theme.

    1. Artemesia*

      This is why we have our annual soup party in February. People are happy to have a festive event during this dank time of year.

      2. Lea*

        That sounds fantastic and far enough from Christmas to avoid bother the curmudgeons

        Regardless as long as these parties are vomit are idk why anyone would care if they don’t want to go

      3. Boof*

        See I thought it was the maple sugar crawl that made it worth while (a bunch of sugar shacks here have a week or two of sugar parties in feb)

    2. Gumby*

      I do have friends who celebrate within their family for most of the Christmas season (Dec 25 – Jan 5) but then they have their friends over each year for a Twelfth Night party. I really enjoy that.

  9. Heffalump*

    At my jobs for the last 25 years, the gift exchange has been optional and opt-in, as it should be. I’ve chosen not to opt in.

    1. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      I’m trying to opt out of all gift giving except my tightest circle of loved ones. None of us need random gifts.

      1. JustHereForTheCheese*

        I even got our extended family to agree on a “gifts for younglings only” and we wish each other a happy holiday and don’t have to figure out what to do with random stuff we don’t need/want.

        1. Mostly Managing*

          Our extended family pulls names for the younglings, so they just get one gift “from the cousins”.
          For the last several years, the adults each make a donation to a charity of our choice. Someone compiles a list of all the charities we’ve supported (with undisclosed amounts, so no pressure) and a sentence or two saying why that charity was chosen. The list is posted on the fridge in whoever’s hosting’s kitchen.

    2. Dry January*

      I worked in an office of about 15 people. My first year there as the only new person in the office, I got an email that said the office gift exchange was optional, so I opted out. I got asked twice if I was sure I wanted to opt out and confirmed. Turns out I was the only one who opted out and everyone else really loved the exchange, so at our party I had to watch everyone else open each others gifts for over an hour, with people saying things every few minutes like, when is it Dry January’s turn? Don’t make the new person go last! Who did you have to buy for, Dry January?

      The next year I just opted in. Optional is relative for me and only extends as far as my own tolerance for awkwardness.

    3. Dust Bunny*

      We don’t do ours any more but when we did, it was also entirely optional and opt-in, and had a $15 limit. It worked out well.

  10. HighBackLeatherChairSurfer*

    January Parties are great in theory, and depending on the industry might be ideal and work great. But I’ve been to a couple over the years and they definitely lack something. It feels likes like when I use to work in emergency services and had to miss the Superbowl, so my friends and I thought sure we will just record it and have a party the next day – everyone was trying to pretend it was the same but we all agreed never again. Unless January parties are already ingrained in your work culture, moving them will take years before people will want to participate in the same way. End of year/holiday celebrations are so ingrained in our culture, especially in the States, that overcoming the disappointment is a large hurdle for management to overcome.

    1. HighBackLeatherChairSurfer*

      I went to my spouse’s annual party in January in 2020. It was the first time since they moved it from early December. Half the people left before the entertainment, and about ten people spent the whole evening telling everyone how much better it is for all of them now. It was awkward.

    2. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      I wonder if those of other religions are really disappointed – or just relieved.

    3. Kendall^2*

      This is not a universal experience, at all.

      Many of us appreciate parties in other months of year. If you are missing something that you feel in a party in December, you may have tied it emotionally to $ParticularHoliday, rather than $AnnualWorkplaceCelebration.

      1. Delta Delta*

        I worked at a florist in college. We were really busy around thanksgiving and Christmas with centerpieces and poinsettias, and then 6 weeks later was Valentine’s Day. One year the owners decided to have the annual party in early March because 1) it’s fun to celebrate making it through those holidays and 2) you need something delightful in March when the weather is best described as “awful.” We liked it.

      2. HighBackLeatherChairSurfer*

        If there is nothing to celebrate, no end of year numbers, no completed goals, no holidays, what is the point of having a party. In January people are ready to return to normal life, kids are back to school, new corporate goals are set/starting, nothing has been completed, the world at large is over celebrating anything, and in my industry it is our busiest time of the year with mandatory overtime, a party in January seems more like forced fun than an actual celebration, judging by the few I have attended. Again maybe it has worked before, but I think a company should really look at how their employees would view it.

        1. ferrina*

          I think the key in this is that your industry is busy in January, but wrapping up in December. For other industries, that may look different. It makes sense to have a party after a large accomplishment, and completing a year counts as an accomplishment.

        2. metadata minion*

          I think this is going to be very industry/workplace-dependent. I’m in academia, so it makes equal sense to have either an end-of-year or beginning-of-year party. And while we are ramping up to the beginning of the semester in January, if anything December is busier with end-of-semester chaos. We don’t have mandatory overtime and it probably also affects things that academic library parties aren’t exactly all-night booze affairs. We close early one afternoon and have snacks and trivia in the function hall, within most people’s normal working hours.

        3. Dancing Otter*

          When I was in public accounting, the night all the tax returns were D. O. N. E. was a huge after-hours party. Mind, most of us were only a couple of years out of university, and could go out drinking half the night after months of 70-hour weeks. The partners funded it, and nobody officially noticed what time anyone arrived the next day.

          In corporate, there were sometimes (not every company) celebrations when the YE financial statements were put to bed and the external auditors had signed off. The time a new manager stopped the tradition at one place, there was a LOT of complaining even by people who usually only stayed for ten minutes. (You can’t lie to the accountants that the company had a bad year when they didn’t. We KNOW.)

    4. Sherm*

      It is something I’d take the office’s temperature about. Some people would love a January party — but others would be disappointed. (And I wouldn’t push it back any further than January. Otherwise it could be akin to having a “Summer BBQ” in autumn when people are shivering from the cold wind blowing over the park.)

    5. Fluffy Fish*

      There will never be a perfect solution for every single person.

      IMO there are more valid reasons to have a non-secular party in January instead of dressing up a “holiday” party that’s really a Christmas party by any other name. Mainly not everyone celebrates Christmas.

    7. Dido*

      yeah, nobody wants to go to a holiday party in January. I would just opt out if my work pulled this. maybe have it in early December instead

  11. Tradd*

    In the early 2000s, I worked for a company where the office manager asked everyone to contribute $75 towards NFL tickets for the GM for Christmas. We were told her father had terminal cancer and she wanted to go to one more game with him. I think there were 10-12 of us in the office. Even the temps were being strong armed to contribute. I refused and even told the temps they didn’t have to contribute (one told me she couldn’t afford it), but they all did. The office manager was furious at me and started harassing me. I told the GM I was sorry about her dad, but that was more money than I could afford. She told the office manager to leave me alone (she did).

    1. LaminarFlow*

      I was badgered to donate to the GM’s gift as a temp. Not once, but twice, and with two different companies.

      I was in college/just out of college at the time, and I had no idea about professional etiquette. In both situations, I was a little less than professional with my “Yeah, so I make $11.00 per hour, and I live with 5 roommates. My entire budget for Christmas presents for people I like is $100, and I’ve saved for months to afford that, and Bossy Boss isn’t on the list. Contributing to Bossy Boss’s “something nice” gift will gut my whole budget, and Bossy Boss doesn’t even know my name.”

      Looking back on these situations, I’m glad I spoke up in front of other temps & people who were paid much less than the people collecting the funds, and had a much bigger stake in the company. I could have softened my message a bit, but whatever. Two fellow temps and one mid-manager overheard my response, and they all commented separately to me about how ridiculous the gift for Bossy Boss was.

  12. Antilles*

    For the third question, I think the biggest thing is clarifying expectations. Especially if you’re going to describe with a phrase like “White Elephant” or “fun exchange”.
    In my experience, half of people believe that sort of framing means hilarious joke gifts that cost little/nothing and the other half of people believe that means quality thoughtful gifts that people should love. And both sides of the argument are so accustomed to their own meaning that it never even crosses their mind to ask until boxes start getting opened and wait what.

    1. Fíriel*

      I personally think this is kind of the point of white elephant – stealing the good gifts and desperately trying to dodge the mediocre ones.

    2. Festively Dressed Earl*

      Right on. A “no used or expired gifts” rule might be handy, because someone else might think a stained coffee mug or 10 year old chocolate is funny but I’d be grossed out.

    3. Ellis Bell*

      I feel like if you want people to buy real gifts, even cheap ones, it might be an idea to provide an app, or secret Santa gift generator that has some shopping links and examples. People are busy, make it as easy as possible.

    4. hohumdrum*

      My hot take is the people who go to a white elephant style exchange expecting high quality gifts are the crazy ones. It’s just supposed to be a silly fun thing.

      My absolute favorite white elephant gift I ever got was “dollar store grab bag” where the person just used the gift limit to get as much stuff from the dollar store as possible. I got like 15 silly dollar store toys, and enjoyed spending the rest of the party giving everyone temporary tattoos and playing with bubble wands and bouncy balls, etc. My second favorite gift was a joke gift with a fake bat inside that would fly in circles when hung from the ceiling. Great gift, very beloved in my family to this day.

      I look to actual gift exchanges with my loved ones for thoughtful, tasteful gifts. Office white elephant games are for being goofy and having a good sense of humor, and you can still find treasures if you open your heart to the whimsy of it.

    5. Quoth the Raven*

      The times I’ve done Secret Santa at work, there’s either been a theme (one year it was T-shirts, for example) or a minimum (something like $10) and you provided a list of things you were interested in (for example, books of X genre or by Y author, a lipstick in certain colour, all that). It made things as easy as possible.

    6. LaminarFlow*

      Yes! I work in tech, which frequently means the team is from all over the world. One colleague was adamant that we do a White Elephant gift exchange one year. It didn’t occur to anyone on the team to explain what White Elephant means to the approximately 75% of the employees who weren’t from the U.S., and had no idea.

      The actual gift exchange was a little awkward. The people who had no idea what white elephant meant were really kind of shocked that a broken homemade clock that someone found at a thrift shop was given (and heartily received). A few showed up with elephant themed items – a small stuffed elephant, a set of erasers shaped like elephants, and a really lovely set of 4 teacups & saucers with an elephant motif.

    7. nanani*

      I think the point here is not to debate what White Elephant means, but to realize that different people mean different things by that name.
      It can be regional or as idiosyncratic as what your previous job or extended family randomly did, so explaining in complete sentences is crucial! Lay out expectations and don’t rely on everyone having the same idea.

  13. Random Biter*

    We had a Secret Santa exchange at OldJob. You filled out a form listing some simple things you like (chocolate) or collect (dragons) and a “grand finale” on the 5th day (5 day office) with a very explicit disclaimer that the finale was NOT to be over $10. The premise was simple/cute/goofy/couple of bucks items during the first 4 days then a luncheon where everyone unwrapped their “special” gift and tried to guess who their secret santa was. In theory. It finally got stopped when that 5th gift thing was reaching the stratosphere in some instances.

    1. Retired now*

      I belong to an online group that I’ve been a member of for many years. We have a secret Santa and have a worldwide collection of people. The organizer always sets out some very clear rules for the secret Santa and that it is expected to purchase a present or a gift card or something and not just a white elephant. So I think the important thing is clarity before the gift exchange

      1. Rocket Raccoon*

        I also do a Secret Santa with an online group of friends. We use Elfster, the expectations are super clear, and it’s a good time – in our case we are explicitly exchanging handmade gifts. I have both given and received gifts that kinda missed the mark, but hey that’s life and everyone put in a good effort.

        1. Bast*

          My book club also uses Elfster for a gift exchange in December. I’d say a little over half of the group participates, and it’s a lot of fun. We have a $25 limit, although you can still “Wish” things slightly over — last year my person wanted a candle that was something like $1.00 more, so that’s what they got — but most people are within the limit, so issues. So far, everyone has pretty much stuck to what’s on the lists people create, which takes the guesswork out of it.

  14. Silicon Valley Girl*

    Most of the large, international companies I’ve worked at do January “new years” or “winter” parties, both to avoid pinning it on a specific holiday & bec. venues are cheaper & easier to book. Scheduling is easier for most employees too. Love it!

  15. CherryBlossom*

    I see the logistical reasoning of moving an office holiday party to January (Less stressful time, cheaper to rent space, etc.) but honestly, Thanksgiving to New Year’s is already so full of obligations that by the time it’s all over, I’m exhausted!

    I tend to spend all of January just recovering. If my office did any afterhours celebrations, I’d have to pass and go back to sleep. January is for rest!

  16. Overit*

    When I was younger and got pressed, I simply said I could not afford it. Lather, rinse, repeat.

    I got to the point in my career where I said, ” I do not accept gifts from my staff because I believe gifting up conflicts of interest. So I am afraid I cannot contribute.”

    1. Bast*

      “After all BIG BOSS does for you, you can’t spare $40 for him on Christmas?” That’s what “I can’t afford it” would get you in old office of mine. I hated the guilt trips, especially because 1) BIG BOSS easily made 6 figures while the majority of staff was on state assistance due to the low wages; 2) the majority of staff were single parents already struggling to provide a holiday for their kids, and were being guilted into splurging on the boss and c) you were told what to contribute by another Upper Level Boss, and it was never reasonable. She would decide what to buy for Big Boss, and then decide what all staff had to contribute. We’d get an email — “We’ve decided to get Big Boss X, Y, and Z this year. To accomplish this, all staff will need to contribute $40.00 by DATE.” If you tried to make a smaller contribution, you’d be shamed and made to feel like the worst person on Earth, and it would most certainly be brought up during the Christmas party. Upper Level Boss also made 6 figures, so maybe for her $40 was “nothing” but she certainly had no empathy for the fact that for someone making 40k a year whose rent just went up and had 2 kids looking forward to Christmas, it could be a real hardship.

        1. Ms. Eleanous*

          … and ND Gov Wild Bill Langer made all state employees give to a certain local newspaper.

          ( yes, guilty as charged)
          no boss should allow this

  17. JustHereForTheCheese*

    LW about remote workers – Here to echo what Alison said, you are doing it right and thank you for not forgetting the remote workers.

    I would prefer a gift card to an after hours holiday party for work any day. I see work people enough during the work day, I like my evenings/weekends to myself and family and friends.

  18. Dido*

    LW2 is such a busybody! As a young and attractive woman, people ALWAYS think I’m flirting with every man I talk to when I’m just being friendly! As friendly as I am to women! If a coworker randomly came up to me and told me not to get handsy at the holiday party with a male coworker that I’ve never done anything inappropriate with, I’d honestly consider reporting the busybody coworker to HR.

    1. Festively Dressed Earl*

      Nah, don’t report LW2 to HR until they start going around the holiday party with a ruler, making sure that everyone is leaving room for the Holy Spirit.

  19. Katie*

    My office did a party in January (maybe February??) and there was always resentment about it being at that time. It more has to do with the fact we were not part of HQ and were always made to feel less than. Of course they were good enough to be funded for a December party (with much bigger person budget).

  20. Tuesday Tacos*

    One place I worked just asked that anyone wishing to participate in the gift exchange (co-ed grab bag) just give $20 and then one person, who had great taste and shopping abilities went out and bought the 20+ gifts. That person looked forward to the shopping trip every year too (that person was one of the few who came up with the idea)! She was supplied with a little extra money in case something was over by a few cents, plus money to buy wrapping paper etc. She always said she loved being able to shop and wrap. Everyone actually loved this idea and I don’t think I ever witnessed anyone being disappointed so it went on for a long while. She always got an extra gift from the boss for her efforts.

  21. Dust Bunny*

    Fork that noise: Sorry, I like our ED and I’m still not buying her ski tickets.

    (This would not happen where I work because said ED is not crazy, though.)

  22. Alicent*

    I worked at a small business where we were all required to donate a chunk of money to the boss’s annual Christmas present, while he often didn’t get us anything. if he didn’t get his gift card in appreciation for employing us every year, he would have a meltdown. I tried once on Alison’s advice to push back gently and got screamed at by the office manager that I didn’t appreciate anything he did for us. It was so gross and just another symptom of what a toxic hellhole that place was.

    2. MyStars*

      Boy, that would be their last opportunity to talk to me like that and require me to pay for the privilege. Straight unpaid unemployment would be better if I couldn’t find another job.

  23. CV*

    Inappropriate party gifts:
    One of my coworkers brought a guide to Mexican brothels to a gift exchange.

    Type of gift (inexpensive and/or silly, not die of embarrassment/become a pariah) had been specified in the party announcements.

  24. DJ*

    LW#1 good on you for pushing back on gifting the top managers. A workplace and these people in particular are NOT a charity for staff to spend hard money on!

  25. carrot cake*

    You know, I don’t agree with every little thing my boss does, but dang, when I read about the expectations of some bosses out there, like their employees buying them gifts – and expensive ones, at that – I have a whole new appreciating for my boss’s kindness and decency, and her own quiet generosity toward us. She would be absolutely horrified if we got her anything beyond a slice of cake that someone happened to bring in, etc.

    Thanks, Marie.

  26. Dido*

    I’m sooooooo glad I never worked anywhere where gift exchanges or gift giving of any kind was a thing

    1. Yet Another Traffic Engineer*

      Right? last year at about this time I said to a colleague “have you ever done a secret santa at #COMPANY?” and he said he hadn’t either, and we both agreed we were grateful for it.

      When I worked at a lunch bar (I’ve realised lunch bars are a regional thing, so it’s kind of like a Subway crossed with a diner?), we did a secret santa and it was the most stressful experience for 19-year-old me who had no idea what to buy.

  27. Eirishis*

    In my office of 30 folks, a few years ago we started doing a “Buy Nothing” gift exchange at our holiday party. Same rules as “white elephant” exchange, but the expectation is that you do not buy anything new; you bring something you have that is new or gently used and is no longer (or never was) useful to you. There are some who loved shopping for holiday gifts who were a bit hurt at first, but mostly we have stories of people who happily secured picture frames, electric blankets, desktop zen gardens, makeup sample kits, and scented candles that were gathering dust in others homes.

    There is still the risk of inequity of gifts so we still give a “aim for something that would have a value of X or so”, but the feedback from our team has been phenomenal. No one has to spend a dime, and many if not most walk out with an upgrade over what they brought in their own valuation.

  28. AngloNemi*

    Re 2 coworkers, unless the LW has met their partners how do they know the 2 coworkers aren’t already in a relationship? That letter read like the other side of ones I’ve read on here where married coworkers were alleged to be having an affair…with each other. Very Pina Colada Song.

  29. DinoGirl*

    I wonder if I worked at this same firm (HW??) because I ran into the exact same thing years ago re ski gift for law firm owner. I wonder if the expectations have changed over time because the couple of times I’ve run into the horrifyingly lavish gift for the boss, it’s been coordinated by much older secretaries. In the most recent instance, once she retired, that stopped. So, I do think it’s worth a kind comment to the coordinator that expectations of workplace gifts have changed. But Shane on any boss in that position not getting ahead of it, I’ll give you wanting to be gracious the first time(what’s done is done) and hopefully buying the staff a nice meal, but after the first time they should set the expectation for no gifts.

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