can I ask my boss not to scream at me with her door open?

by Alison Green on April 14, 2025

A reader writes:

Recently, my boss sent me five spreadsheets, several with multiple tabs, to fill out but offered no information on what went in which row, column, or tab. I managed to figure most of it out (she gets annoyed when I ask her questions) and asked for clarification on the rest. I only had hours to get all of this done because it was due the next day and she had sent it to me a few hours into my workday so I had to work quickly. I apparently filled out one of the columns wrong, subtracting the scores instead of adding them. I went to her office to address it, and she was infuriated. She proceeded to scream at me about my mistake.

Despite my apologies and offers to immediately fix the error, which would take five minutes, she shooed me away. All of this happened with the door open. I was so shocked and embarrassed, I left and cried in my office. I sent an email apologizing for the mistake, ignoring that her clarification had been my reason for doing it the way I had. Later, two women who work on the same floor as my boss asked how I was doing. They were horrified to hear her screaming at me.

The next week, I had to complete 12 individual information packets to send to her. I reviewed them thoroughly, and we went back and forth on them about four times (through email) before they were finalized. The next day, she calls me into her office and, again, with the door open, proceeds to speak in quite an agitated and frustrated tone about my mistake, which had involved pasting in the wrong name in one of the documents. I could tell she wanted to scream at me again because the more she went on, the louder her voice got. I only realized after she had cut into me for five minutes that the door had been open the entire time.

I left feeling embarrassed but also angry. I am quite thorough when I do my work. I’ve been at this job for nine months, and this was the first time I had made a mistake. One of them wasn’t my fault because I was provided with zero instructions except “fill this out with these numbers” and the other I owned up to just as quickly. At one point in the second conversation with her, I acknowledged I had made two mistakes, and she said, “No, three,” pointing out a “mistake” I had “made” in a document that had not been finalized yet. It involved removing a single word, but I hadn’t even finished looking over the whole thing.

I am quite defeated already. I thought her reactions were quite disproportionate to the mistake both times. I’m not sure whether this is “get a new job” worthy, but I want to have a conversation with her about her tone because I don’t mind having my mistakes corrected, but I do think there is a way to do it without embarrassing the person. I think it begins with closing the door, but how do I go about bringing this up?

It begins with not yelling.

It begins with not berating.

The open door is the least of the issues! It sounds like you’re feeling embarrassed that people heard your boss laying into you — but I promise, that reflects terribly on her, not on you.

After all, imagine if you were walking down the hall and heard someone’s boss screaming at them. Wouldn’t you think “jeez, what a jerk?” not “wow, that person being yelled at must really suck?” That’s why your two coworkers checked on you afterwards, and why they were horrified.

People make mistakes. If your boss needed to correct your work, the appropriate action was to matter-of-factly correct your work. It doesn’t require berating or yelling or being “infuriated” (!).  If you’re making so many mistakes or such serious mistakes that she’s frustrated or even questioning your fit for the job, the correct way to deal with that is to use the many, many tools she has at her disposal as your manager and actually manage you, which could be anything from more intensive training/coaching to formal warnings to actually firing you. At no point along that path of progressively serious consequences would it be appropriate for her to berate you or yell at you, even if you were a disaster of an employee. (And if these were your first mistakes in nine months, you’re clearly not a disaster of an employee — but even if you were, it wouldn’t justify being abusive.)

I want to know what your relationship with your boss is like aside from this. I doubt that she’s seemed calm and reasonable all along until she suddenly become infuriated over a single mistake and unloaded on you like this, so I’m guessing there have been issues with her all along — and that’s your bigger problem than just these most recent reactions.

You can certainly try a calm conversation along the lines of, “I take my work seriously and I want to know about mistakes so I can fix them, but I do not want to be yelled at like what happened last week.”

And if she ever yells at you again, you should feel free to say, “I’m not willing to be yelled at, but I will of course talk with you about this later once you’re no longer yelling” and then leave. Truly, you’re allowed to do that.

You should also feel free to simply stand up and close the door if you’re concerned a conversation is getting heated and you’d prefer privacy.

But you have a boss problem that goes beyond these most recent incidents, and it’s the sort that’s probably only solved by leaving for a new job when you can.

As long as you’re stuck working for her, though, keep in the forefront of your mind that this is about her, not you. People who have the skills to manage effectively don’t operate this way, and she’s telling on herself to you and anyone who happens to overhear.

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{ 238 comments }

{ 238 comments… read them below }

  1. cat mom x2*

    you are in an abusive work relationship with this manager, OP, i’m sorry. i think it’s best to get out if you can.

    1. Alexander Graham Yell*

      Yep. I had this manager, but he yelled with the door closed.

      It’s not better. It eliminates witnesses. It meant nobody could go to HR about what they’d heard, and as his only direct report, I didn’t feel safe from retaliation.

      This put me in therapy, this changed the way I understood myself as a worker, and it made me doubt myself as a person.

      OP, from somebody who has been there – get out as soon as you are able. Prioritize leaving, regardless of what you think it’ll look like on your resume later.

      1. An Australian in London*

        I’m sorry for both OP and your experiences.

        For precisely the reasons you articulated, when I’ve been yelled at by a boss I now stand up to open the door. I want the whole floor to hear that it’s happening.

        Bonus: it sometimes stops the yelling when they realise they now have an audience… and it’s no longer my word against theirs.

        1. Jasmine Tea*

          I REALLY like this idea of opening the door! OP you are not the one who should be embarrassed. Your boss should!

      2. Slow Gin Lizz*

        Yeah, it sounds like OP already doubts themselves as a worker (maybe not as a person, yet). And that’s really the worst thing about this situation, that the boss has warped OP’s thinking so much that OP isn’t certain that this is absolutely, definitely, without a doubt, “get a new job” territory. OP, get out as soon as you possibly can, because even if your boss were a stellar boss otherwise, the yelling is absolutely a dealbreaker (and, as AAM said and others too, reflects badly on her and not at all on you).

        I would even go so far as to suggest that you speak to the two coworkers who expressed concern about the yelling, just to let them know that you appreciate their concern. They might have further insight for you, like that your boss has a pattern of doing this or that it might actually be worth it to go to HR because HR is good and actually cares enough about yell-y bosses to help you out or find you a different position at your company. But if you’re worried that any of that might get back to your boss and she’ll retaliate, OP, don’t do that and just get out ASAP for your own mental health. You don’t deserve to be yelled at, no one does. (Well, a few people, maybe, but not for trying to do your best and failing to read your boss’ mind when she doesn’t tell you what she actually wants you to do.)

        Good luck, OP, we’re all rooting for you!

        1. Alexander Graham Yell*

          Yes yes yes, speak to your coworkers, OP – and if the other coworkers feel like HR would take it seriously, ask them to speak up if you don’t feel comfortable doing it yourself. In my situation, it would have been so easily connected to me if I’d said anything because he was so careful to keep the door closed and save the loudest yelling for when everybody else was in a meeting. And so I begged my coworkers to stay back, or take their headphones out, or see if they could hear anything they could report, because I knew I’d be taken seriously, but I didn’t feel safe reporting it myself. (At one point one of my boss’s peers saw I wasn’t in a good state and called me into his office, where I cried for an hour and used his entire box of tissues. He did everything he could to protect me from that point on, and I have never forgotten it.)

          OP, I am crossing everything you can get out quickly.

          1. Venus*

            Over the years my workplace has had a couple managers who yelled and they both got in trouble because witnesses complained to HR. In one case she was forced to retire, and in the other case he acknowledged his behavior, took classes, and no longer manages people. Not every workplace has a good HR, of course, but having a discussion with coworkers about problematic managers has worked for me to better understand the situation (and know to get out, I moved to another department) and has worked for others when they raised it to HR.

            Good luck OP!

      3. RLC*

        Everything you’ve said here! I too had a yelling boss, with no qualms about others witnessing his tirades. (Pinned me to a wall outside his office to yell at me in front of a dozen colleagues). I left after 6 months, took a pay cut, never regretted it. He even had the audacity to stand up at my going away lunch and accuse me of betraying him by leaving. That remark said SO much about HIM.

      4. Momma Bear*

        I was thinking the same – leave the door open and let the boss’ behavior be known. The fact that other coworkers noticed means OP is not out of line in thinking this is wrong. Don’t cover for boss by closing the door.

        I once had a boss who made every one of her underlings cry at some point (we were all in our 20s at the time and should have just gone to HR as a group). She was one of those people who got promoted by default, not because she was a good manager. I say “once had” because eventually I had enough being berated and quit. I hope OP starts looking for a new job and realizes that this situation is toxic. We all make mistakes, but a name in a column is not worth being screamed at or insulted, publicly or not.

      5. Goldenrod*

        EXACTLY. It’s much BETTER that the door be open, so that there are witnesses to her abusive and incredibly inappropriate behavior.

        I had this boss too. Start work on finding another job TODAY. I promise you, anyone who expresses annoyance at clarification questions is a crappy boss. Yelling is simply NOT OKAY. Get out as fast as you can!

    2. Anonym*

      Yeah, her behavior is neither appropriate nor acceptable. Wishing you luck in finding a new opportunity ASAP, OP. No one should be treated this way at work, ever.

    3. learnedthehardway*

      Agreed – start a job search and get out of there.
      If you have HR, go and talk to them, in the meantime – a manager who does not give any instructions and who then berates their staff should not be in a management position.

      1. AngryOctopus*

        Yep the “she gets annoyed when I ask her questions” is a HUGE bright red flag waving everywhere, quite aside from the yelling. I don’t know how to complete my job right if I can’t ask questions!

        1. A. Lab Rabbit*

          Yep. My last boss (who was toxic AF!) told me he didn’t want people asking him questions (“they should just know how to do their job!” he said) but he also didn’t want people making mistakes (“they should just know how to do their job!” he said again). When I explained to him that the Venn diagram of people who don’t make mistakes and the people who never ask questions are two completely separate circles, he did not care.

          Get out, get out, get out, and don’t look back.

          1. Richard Hershberger*

            I thought that Terrible Boss of some twenty years ago would get disbarred due to some egregious error that he would blame on his support staff but which actually arose from his unwillingness to communicate with said staff. I was surprised, some years after leaving, to learn that he was disbarred for different reasons. Well, not entirely different. It arose from his being needlessly unpleasant to everyone, including other lawyers. One of them took on as a project to document a body of ethical transgressions, any one of which would have resulted in a wag of the finger but en masse resulted in his losing his license.

            1. Slow Gin Lizz*

              Wow, good for that lawyer who got him disbarred! Leave it to a lawyer to take the time to document various transgressions in order to get someone pushed out of the profession.

            2. coffee*

              That feels like an extremely lawyer-y response. Find the rules, compile the paperwork, nail him to the wall.

              A good result.

          2. epicdemiologist*

            If they’re supposed to be able to do their job without any instruction or clarification from him, WHAT IS HE GETTING PAID FOR?

          3. goddessoftransitory*

            Yes. This is the kind of person who doesn’t want to think, basically. Not out of “dumbness” but because they completely resent not having their minds read and expectations catered to without fail, usually within an absurdly short time period.

            They don’t WANT to hear about logic, reason, or circumstance. They consider those things insulting to have to put up with and reality an audacious brat that should know to keep its mouth shut.

            1. TheOtherLaura*

              I usually assume that they do not have a clue how it should look at the end, but are convinced that they’ll know it when they see it. Even if you get them to tell you something, it won’t help, because they just took a shot in the dark. You cannot win there.

          4. Big Hair No Heart*

            Your old bad boss sounds a lot like my old bad boss! His favorite saying was, “I shouldn’t have to tell you how to do your job.” Which could be used in instances where I asked him questions about work he assigned me AND in those where I didn’t ask questions because I knew it would make him mad, and thus turned in work he didn’t like.

            Echoing your advice. Get out. You deserve to be able to ask questions or get feedback on your work from your boss without it being this terrible, anxiety inducing experience!

    4. Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender*

      This is the correct answer. OP, I’m so sorry. It is unfair that you’re stuck with this abuser for now. Please practice Alison’s scripts so you can extract yourself when the boss lays into you. Include getting up and walking out of the room as part of your practice.

      1. WestsideStory*

        Start looking. Imagine how happy you will be when you give your two week’s notice. Let that thought sustain you as you plan your escape.

        I once had a boss who was a yeller. Often over the phone. One time the berating over the wire went on and on and on, and eventually I hung up on her. Then I told my colleagues (who had heard everything, as your colleagues have done) I was going for a walk, and I *might* be back. I did come back later, and sent her an email that yelling was unprofessional and I expected an apology.

        The next day the Grandboss made her apologize to me. It was one of those “not really apologies” but I’m sure it stuck in her craw. But that was nothing compared to my giving my two weeks notice ten days later – I’d been planning my escape, and even had finished up quite a lot of documentation they would need one I’d left.

        We played nice for the two weeks, I even partially trained my replacement. By the end of the month, I heard back from my colleagues that the new person had lasted exactly one week before quitting the company.

        Don’t let anyone steal your power. You have more than you know.

        1. Laser99*

          It’s true. The LW sounds like a conscientious worker, and will quickly land a much better job. Leave that person raging impotently at someone else.

    5. Productivity Pigeon*

      This.

      You can’t see it now but the problem isn’t that she’s yelling at you so others can hear, it’s that she’s yelling *period*.

      You do NOT have to put up with behavior like this.
      You are not to blame for your boss’ atrocious behavior.

      Believe me when I say this: there is no way for you to change that will improve your boss’ behavior because you’re not the one who needs to change.

      You can never be good enough in an abusive relationship.

      You don’t deserve this. Please get out as soon as you can.

      1. Bird names*

        You can never be good enough in an abusive relationship.
        LW, your reaction was to apologize. Normal, understandable, in a healthy (work)relationship also correct. That approach will however never work, because your boss isn’t interested in acknowledgement>short apology>mistake corrected, but in your trying for constant appeasement and being on the back foot.

        1. Productivity Pigeon*

          Precisely.

          OP, there is nothing you can do or say that will improve your boss’ behavior for good.

          If you grovel enough, she might let up a for a little bit, but no matter what, you will do something that sets her off and puts you back at square one.

          And NONE of this is your fault.

          I’m not saying you’re never going to be good enough to change your boss because you in general aren’t good enough, just that there is no way to reason with an unreasonable person. And frankly, it isn’t worth it.

        2. Stunt Apple Breeder*

          Apologizing may even backfire, if your boss views the apology as your own admission that you aren’t good at your job.

          1. Ellie*

            They can also de-escalate things. You have to know the person and guess what way they will take it. But if a false apology gets them off your back and stops the yelling for a while, I think it’s a perfectly legitimate thing to try.

            But OP’s boss isn’t going to change and there’s nothing OP can do to get it to stop entirely. OP, put all your energy into getting out as soon as possible.

      2. WillowSunstar*

        Agreed 100%, had this with my mother growing up. She passed away when I was a teenager. Had she lived, I probably would have been one of those who go no-contact as an adult.

    6. Audiophile*

      This sums it up perfectly!

      Based on what they’ve told me, my friend has an abusive boss. Their coworkers reported it to HR on my friend’s behalf, and sadly, my friend asked me the best way to sweep it under the rug when HR did their investigation. At the time, I suggested my friend be honest, but I’m concerned they weren’t. I keep hoping my friend will switch jobs, but there is only so much I can do to help.

    7. Fool's Gold*

      Yes OP, the fact that you’re not sure whether this is “get a new job”-worthy shows that you’ve been boiling-frogwatered for a while now and your perspective is being skewed. It’s long past time to head for the hills, and to try to shake off her influence on your view of what’s normal.

      1. MigraineMonth*

        That’s a good point. OP, would you have put up with this behavior from your new boss on your first day? Before she started undermining your confidence, warping your norms, and you’d put so much effort into trying to please her?

    8. WillowSunstar*

      Agreed. Had this manager when I was younger, luckily, it was just a temp job and I was able to easily quit. Don’t stay in places like this.

  2. MsM*

    This is absolutely “get a new job” worthy. And if she does fire you for standing up for yourself, or reporting her to HR, please know that’s not the worst possible outcome here either.

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Your boss is mean – you already know that.

      But also, your boss is irrational. There are very few adults who will respond positively to her brand of feedback in that kind of setting. The office is not a Marine Corps boot camp.

      So yes, start looking.

      1. Productivity Pigeon*

        I’m struggling to come up with ANY professional situation that is improved by yelling.

          1. Productivity Pigeon*

            That is definitely true!
            Firefighters and ER staff also seem like an possibly okay scenarios.

            (I love that you choose falling anvils given your username!)

        2. Resentful Oreos*

          “The building’s on fire!” “Watch out for that car!” “Call an ambulance!” “There’s a clown in the sewer staring at you!”

          The only professional situations where it’s OK to yell at someone, is OK are when life is at stake. Get out of the burning building, don’t step into traffic, someone is having a heart attack or stroke, there’s an eldritch abomination about to eat you.

        3. coffee*

          “It’s a bit loud in here, make sure you’re protecting your hearing!” and handing someone earmuffs – probably one of the few scenarios.

          1. Ace in the Hole*

            Big difference between yelling in anger vs yelling to be heard over background noise or distance.

            There are TONS of workplace scenarios where yelling (to be heard) is totally appropriate. Anything where you’re working around loud machinery, high winds, noisy crowds, need to communicate across some distance, etc. Go to any construction site or factory floor and you’ll see yelling is the only way to be heard!

            The only time yelling in anger/emotion is appropriate is when there’s immediate danger. Which is much less common!

      2. Seeking Second Childhood*

        I actually worked for a former marine corps drill sergeant. She did not yell at the office.

        1. AF Vet*

          *MOST* of the Drill Instructors, Training Instructors, Drill Sergeants I’ve ever met have been both EXTREMELY ethical, and knew exactly when to switch it on and off. They could be the menacing quiet of Liam Neeson in Taken, and with more effect, rather than going full Gunny in Full Metal Jacket or Forrest Gump. At Officer Training School, my TI only raised his voice to be heard calling cadence (literal marching orders). Otherwise if you caught his attention, he’d get right up in your face and very quietly tell you exactly what you were doing wrong and what the consequences would be if you continued. I have an incredible amount of respect – and healthy fear – towards him and am grateful for his training.

          Yes, you’ll get an occasional bad apple. But those get weeded out pretty quickly. A lot of stellar senor enlisted I’ve known spent time as a TI – and it shows in both their management and people skills.

    2. Bird names*

      All of this, yeah. I’m glad @MsM that you addressed the “worst”-case scenario as well.
      Your instincts are exactly right, LW, and you stated the issue quite clearly yourself: “I thought her reactions were quite disproportionate to the mistake both times.” While you may not be able to jump ship immediately, looking for a different job is a completely appropriate reaction in your situation.
      I’d also like to underline this from Alison’s response: “…keep in the forefront of your mind that this is about her, not you.” because it’s unfortunately so easy to start doubting yourself when faced with people like your boss.

    3. LadyMTL*

      I was in a similar situation a few years ago with a former boss (though it was during the initial Covid outbreak so we were all WFH). He would berate me for making mistakes, even though I was working on things that I had very little training in – think examining a financial statement even though I’m not an accountant.

      At one point I told him flat out to stop yelling at me, and I was thiiiis close to going to HR with an official complaint. Thankfully when his contract was up for renewal he was let go, so I didn’t have to take that step but OP, you deserve to be treated with respect and your boss is not doing that. I strongly suggest going to HR if she does it again.

      1. Children's Librarian*

        OMG. That reminded be of a former “bad boss” I actually called him the “bad boss” For some reason I was responsible for contract compliance for our department. Never trained, not a lawyer, last hired assistant. I had no idea what I was looking at or supposed to do. When I asked a question he would say in a withering (how-stupid-are-you tone) the terms are in the contract. Oh and yes, many many many things went wrong. And yes, I was fired for the mistakes I made. No regrets- after that job went to grad school to become a librarian.

      2. Laser99*

        Oh, she absolutely is going to do it again. Even if HR isn’t willing to address it, it will be there for if/when they ease her out.

    4. Smithy*

      Yes to all of this – but I’d also flag that for everyone who finds coping mechanisms for this type of behavior long term – it will skew your professional norms in ways that take a long time to undo.

      I was in a situation like this in my first role in the industry, and while my employer overall had a lot of positives and relevant things to learn about how our industry worked – the unprofessional yelling stuff made it harder to tease through the good lessons vs the bad ones. Fast forward to my next job, and it took me a while to realize it was not a Very Toxic organization. Then, a few years into the role when I was offered a new job that would have been a solid step up, I ultimately declined it because I believed that some things might happen at Very Toxic to my benefit. Barely a month later I realized that was a horrible mistake, but due to other external issues in my field – it would take a year before I got a new job.

      All to say, the lingering negative effects of that first job carried over for a while, and the lasting damage was for more in how I viewed myself vs anything else.

      1. MigraineMonth*

        Yeah. Don’t be surprised if you take anxieties and odd coping mechanisms to your next job. In fact, if you can access therapy (or a friend who’s willing to point out no-longer-adaptive thought patterns), I would recommend it for the time you’re making the change to your new job.

  3. Writergal*

    You need a new job. No one should ever be getting yelled at for mistakes. It’s her job to deal with mistakes that arise and correct you when they come up. I wouldn’t think that you’re a horrible employee, except for the manager.

  4. The Original K.*

    I am of the belief that unless you work somewhere that is very loud where you must literally shout to be heard or you’re warning someone of imminent danger (“look out!”), yelling doesn’t belong at work. Your boss sucks, OP.

    1. Guacamole Bob*

      I will also forgive the occasional very loud exclamation in extraordinary circumstances. A few of my colleagues recall learning about a dire safety issue at our organization when someone shouted “Holy S***!” loud enough to be heard down the hall upon receiving the email.

      1. ChemCat9*

        Once I had to explain to my director why he had heard me yell “Get out of the lab!” to a more senior person.
        Said person had ignored the warnings not to go into a room at a certain time and was almost mowed down by several hundred pounds of marble. Still facepalming over that one.

          1. Mentally Spicy*

            Also … mown down by marble. I’m guessing they mean the mineral but my brain can’t stop thinking of a giant glass marble rolling towards the director like the start of Raiders of the Lost Ark!

      1. Venus*

        Cheering on a friend when playing sports? Screaming in anger at a protest? Yelling at a distant pet to return? Piles of reasons to yell, though none of the situations are someone yelling in a room at someone else.

      2. Festively Dressed Earl*

        THE ICE CREAM TRUCK IS GIVING OUT FREE SUNDAES FOR THE NEXT FIVE MINUTES, HURRY!!!!

  5. Someone Else's Boss*

    LW, you don’t want to work for this woman. I understand deeply the state of employment in the US, so if you live here, I understand why you may be worried about asserting yourself. But this behavior is not okay and at the very least, you need to know that. It I were you, I would talk to HR. Other options could include talking to your boss (likely useless) and/or talking to her boss. But I also think you need to start looking for a new job.

    1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

      This may be the nuclear option.
      OP may go to HR and then her manager will never give her a good reference.
      Oh, no, I won’t get a reference…from a nine month job…under a crazy person.
      Yes. And now you know. Your boss sucks and isn’t going to change.
      She will never be your advocate moving forward in your career.
      Take care of yourself NOW and your future self will be better for it.

        1. Bird names*

          Yeah, this is very much a case of – don’t worry too much about burning a bridge if someone has covered it in traps first and demands you apologize for stepping into one of them.
          To be sure, I’d categorize the boss as immature and vindictive rather than crazy.

      3. Rex Libris*

        An irrational, abusive manager who literally screams over an Excel error is unlikely to ever give a good reference anyway. I’m sure they would take any hint that someone was job hunting as the worst sort of betrayal.

        Unless you have the amazing sort of luck where your complaint just happens to be the final straw that gets your boss fired instantly, this sounds like the sort of person where retaliation will be extreme if OP goes to HR.

        My advice would be to cut your losses, find a couple of coworkers who will be discreet and give good references, and start job hunting as quietly and rapidly as possible.

        I’m sorry you’re in this situation OP. Your boss is an abuser, and I’d make getting out the priority if you’re in a position to do so.

      4. goddessoftransitory*

        Exactly. If this has come up, OP, she’s holding you hostage with an illusion. It’s like me saying if you dance hard enough I’ll give you these magic beans. Your dancing will not make the beans appear.

    2. Bananapants Modiste*

      I agree, If you happen to be tied to this job (financially, no other options, domestic situation etc.), you may be forced to put up with a modicum of abuse by your boss. I’m in a similar situation – am close to retirement and need to hang in there in spite of snark and condescending remarks.

      BUT:
      – Push back where it is safe. AAM’s list is good, maybe you can leave before the yelling starts. And let her leave the door open! It will reflect badly on *her*, and maybe attract the attention of HR or a higher up. Or take along a witness for meetings with her (have seen this done).
      -Document, document, document what is happening as proof for HR, higher ups, an unemployment claim.
      – Yes, rephrase the situation in your head. It’s NOT your fault! Observe the shrieking monkey like a researcher in a rain forest.
      – Build savings if at all possible as a nest egg for a job search.

      1. Rex Libris*

        All this. The door being open is a good thing. People willing to act this way with an audience will be even worse without one.

          1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

            This is what we, as the commenters should be making clear to OP.
            You should not feel embarrassed that people witnessed this.
            People should witness this and speak up about her behaviour.
            Her behaviour is 100% wrong.

      2. Festively Dressed Earl*

        Adding one more thing: rehearse the calm responses Alison suggested. LW’s fight/flight/freeze responses may override rational thought when they’re being yelled at, which is normal and rational. They can just prepare as much as possible and not berate themselves if they don’t react perfectly when their boss pulls this nonsense.

    3. Stoney Lonesome*

      I think it might be worth talking to the women that checked on her as well. That’s how the abusive manager in my office got fired.

      There used to be a manger in my office who was know to be difficult. She was in a different department from me, but occasionally we had to collaborate on projects. One of my employees befriended one of her employees and found out she was how awful she was to the people she supervised. I alerted the Executive Director, but nothing came of it immediately. Then, Bad Manager decided to scream at her employee in full view of everyone. I was out that day, but my employees told me about it as soon as I was back. I was on the phone to the Executive Director immediately and Bad Manager was gone within the week.

      Unfortunately, sometimes, pressure from other managers is more effective than the word of subordinates.

    4. Festively Dressed Earl*

      If I were one of LW’s coworkers, I’d go to boss’s boss with details of what’s happening, ideally with corroboration from others who are hearing it. In a semi-functional workplace, that would shield LW from retaliation and possibly get results faster than going to HR. I say semi-functional because if this workplace was fully functional, this wouldn’t be happening.

  6. Not Tom, Just Petty*

    This is the most telling thing about your letter…
    “The next day, she calls me into her office and, again, with the door open, proceeds to speak in quite an agitated and frustrated tone about my mistake…I could tell she wanted to scream at me again”
    You do not see that she is doing this because she was made aware, either officially, by someone with authority, or tacitly, by seeing the faces of people around her after her temper tantrum.
    She knows she messed up.
    You need to know she messed up.
    This is not normal. It in not acceptable.
    Functional people in functional departments do not yell at each other.
    Yes, find a way to work with her until you can leave.
    No, do not change your entire work perception to normalize this.

    1. A Significant Tree*

      That’s what I picked up as well – she was trying to rein herself in and it wasn’t going to work if you could tell she was on the verge of yelling at you. OP is right to recognize that someone who gets that worked up over a simple cut/paste mistake is showing a disproportionate response.

      To me, the question isn’t: how can I get my boss to only yell at me behind closed doors? It is: what do I do when my boss yells at me? Alison provides the answer: when you are being yelled at, as calmly as you can you should stand up, say that you won’t be talked to this way, and leave. A heated conversation might be different, I guess, although it seems like a fine line in this case – the boss isn’t just expressing a little emotion, they’re not under control. Do not normalize for your boss that someone should just take their abuse.

  7. Nilsson Schmilsson*

    As Allison suggested, address this at the very moment it begins, and her script is perfect. The key is to do is right then. Stun her into silence.

  8. ChattyDelle*

    Dear LW: having been in a somewhat-similiar situation (boss humiliated me on the floor in front of my coworkers) – get out. in the meantime I think you should address this with HR and (what I wish I had done) leave the office when this happens. Go home sick. Remove yourself from the situation if you can.
    But do look for another job. I’m so sorry

    1. John*

      Talking to HR is tricky. They do not owe you confidentiality; they work for management.

      So it would depend on your relationship with the appropriate HR person.

      Even then, as said above, it should be the nuclear option. Because retaliation happens and it can be subtle.

      1. Rex Libris*

        This. Even well meaning HR will not take action on an employee complaint without investigating the boss’s side of it, which will almost always identify the employee, even if they aren’t explicitly named.

        1. Venus*

          This is where talking with the coworkers can help because they can let OP know if it’s worth talking with HR.

          HR works for management, yet in a good workplace the senior managers won’t want a yelling manager like her because competent employees with other job options will quickly leave.

  9. Antilles*

    After all, imagine if you were walking down the hall and heard someone’s boss screaming at them. Wouldn’t you think “jeez, what a jerk?” not “wow, that person being yelled at must really suck?”
    Absolutely true. Even more so given the content of the conversation as described. If I heard someone screaming at the top of their lungs about “you pasted the wrong name in a document!”, I’m absolutely judging the screamer for going wildly over the top. The answer should be a five-second fix and a two-sentence normal voice “btw this should’ve been addressed to Jim Smith not Bob Jones”.

    1. Slow Gin Lizz*

      I started my career as a full-time classical musician, which on top of a lot teaching also required me to take every gig thrown my way in order to establish a reputation in the area. After a few years, I decided to get an office job so I could stop teaching, but I still perform with various orchestras and other musical groups. However, now that I have a job with benefits that pays a regular salary, I have very gladly turned down any gig with a music director who yells. The old-school classical music conductor with a bad temper is so ubiquitous that it became a trope, with short-tempered conductors being thought of as the norm and even people to be praised, but younger conductors seem to be trying to get away from this reputation and I for one appreciate it. There is no need for yelling, except in emergency situations like “Fire!” and I don’t want to support professionals who yell. I also very gladly tell non-yelling conductors that I really enjoy working with them, because I want to encourage their good behavior.

      Similarly, were I in an office where someone was being yelled at, I absolutely would think much less of the yeller than I would of the yellee.

      1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

        My brother the lawyer could never watch The Paper Chase.
        Could you watch Whiplash?

  10. ChaoticNeutral*

    The two mistakes you described are almost exactly two mistakes my supervisee made, just last week, along with a handful of others. My POV is, when you deal with multiple deliverables and multiple iterations of those deliverables in a short span of time, mistakes inevitably happen because your brain is switching modes, and quickly. My job as a supervisor is to catch those mistakes and help my supervisee correct them so that he hopefully makes less of them over time. Just wanted to provide an alternate perspective from a manager on the same situation you are describing, OP. Hearing that you literally got YELLED at and your manager was “infuriated” is shocking and, as Alison said, entirely about your manager than you.

    2. AngryOctopus*

      Yep, I put together a lot of data, and sometimes I miss a title or a labeling error. When my boss catches it he points it out to me, and I fix it. There is no yelling involved.

    3. Corvus Corvidae*

      OP, this. My manager works similarly to ChaoticNeutral. If someone in my department makes an mistake, our manager’s first response is to whip out our department metrics to show how much work passes through here and prove it’s kind of a miracle that we make as few mistakes as we do.

      Good managers will stand up for their employees. You don’t deserve to be treated like this. I wish you the best of luck in escaping this boss.

      1. Opaline*

        And it’s not even clear from the letter that these were mistakes that had an effect on anyone! It sounds like at least one was picked up by the manager in review. Which is… a good thing? That’s what QA is for?

        My manager has to check every one of my reports I send out for legal reasons, and it’s not uncommon for her to catch a small typo or formatting tweak that I’ve missed (they’re 30+ page documents, it happens). But no-one yells about it!

        1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

          Exactly! Have a document go to the SEC without a financial table and then come talk to me.

      2. Not Tom, Just Petty*

        Yes! I made a mistake that went out of our department.
        My boss replied that I will fix it.
        I corrected it.
        I apologized to the person who had to wait for the fix, and thanked the person who found it.
        My boss and the people affected thanked me for handling it and we all got on with our day.
        Later, my boss asked if there was any reason I could see for the mistake. No, I missed the step in the procedure.
        “OK, good. Be more careful, but at least we know where the problem is.”

    4. Venus*

      This is what most surprised me. In my workplace we provide a lot of initial guidance, yet we also have systems in place for catching errors because it’s much more efficient for someone to do the work and for someone else to check it over. The expectation that mistakes are bad and should never be made, especially in the context of providing no guidance, is really awful. I regularly make small mistakes, and I sometimes catch them on my review but some of them are found by my reviewer and it’s all part of how a strong workplace should function.

    5. Fluffy Fish*

      All of this and also – OP making mistakes is human and isn’t even inherently correctable. The entire reason we have other people review our work is BECAUSE we know we are all human and make errors. I always have someone review my public writing before I release it – often multiple people. The review process is part of the work.

      Yes there are things that are correctable and performance based. And there a other’s that are human and intended to be caught during review.

      Frankly both scenarios I would classify under the latter – and the first one shouldn’t have been an issue at all because she gave you erroneous instructions.

      When we work for messed up people we develop messed up norms. I want to make sure that you both understand what she’s doing is wildly out of bounds and that not every “mistake” is even a correctable issue.

      1. ChaoticNeutral*

        Totally agree with this assessment. I would never expect anyone’s work to be 100% mistake-free 100% of the time. I am hoping to coach my supervisee out of some common mistakes he makes that I think he can improve upon (such as adding more details to certain sections of a report we have to write several times a year) but am less worried about the occasional typo or formatting issue (which as you said is not a “correctable” issue but is in fact just part of being a human). Great clarification!

  11. GwenSoul*

    Ia m so sorry, I had a boss like this who confessed he enjoyed making new attorneys cry. I left the field with an ulcer at 27 (leaving the field was also in part that this was 2009 so a pretty bad recession)

    I have never regretted leaving, even in the 9 month job search afterwards.

    1. Roy G. Biv*

      “he enjoyed making new attorneys cry” – what a horrible person. Imagine being stuck in a family relationship with someone that awful. Ugh!

      1. Slow Gin Lizz*

        I was thinking the same about the boss in this letter – woe be to any of her family members, especially any kids she might have!

  12. Art of the Spiel*

    Shut the door behind you whenever you walk in to talk to her. If she looks at you funny, calmly explain “I don’t want people to hear if you start to lose your temper.”

    1. Dasein9 (he/him)*

      I advise the opposite. You do want witnesses who will corroborate your report to HR.

      2. Ellie*

        Yeah, and what if she escalates and ends up throwing a stapler or something? You want witnesses, and people who can intervene if things go completely off the rails.

        The fact that she tried (and failed) to reign it in the second time might indicate that people are already watching. I wouldn’t rely on that though, I’d still get out as soon as you can.

    2. MsM*

      What? No. Keep the door open, and if she complains, be clear you don’t feel comfortable being completely alone with someone who has a history of yelling at you.

    3. Rex Libris*

      Not a good idea. All you’re doing if you close the door and make a snarky statement is setting things up for further abuse without any witnesses.

    4. Not Tom, Just Petty*

      I think Art is saying to shut the door in the same way others are saying, “I’ll give you a minute to get your thoughts together.”
      It’s OP taking control of the situation. It is boss’ office, boss’ door. For OP to shut it, is to indicate that OP understands that boss is not in control and needs a minute.
      And as much as I support trying to shock boss out of a temper tantrum, I agree with the others that the best plan is to walk away.

  13. Freddy*

    I can’t say I recommend this approach, but I had something pretty similar to this happen to me once. I sat at my desk, composed myself, and decided I was ready to quit or be fired over it. I DO NOT tolerate screaming people at work, period. I gathered the paperwork that Screaming Boss had demanded and put it on his desk. I saw in a low, cold voice through gritted teeth, “Do not EVER speak to me like that again.” He didn’t, it was 3 years ago, I’m still here. But this approach is very much on a case by case basis.

    1. And thanks for the coffee*

      I love this. Very direct and in the moment you were standing up for yourself.

    2. Grizzled*

      I did a similar thing, but I approached the teller 1 day after he yelled at me, after I’d cooled off and thought about what to do. I told him very calmly but firmly that I don’t allow people to talk to me like that. He apologized profusely and never did it again. Granted, he was my subordinate not my boss.

        1. allathian*

          It’s not always that clear cut, especially in a unionized environment and outside the US. In many countries, especially in Europe, written employment contracts are a legal requirement, at least for professional jobs (I’ve only worked one call center job that wasn’t contracted, and I quit that one by announcing at the end of one shift that I wouldn’t be coming back). Platform-based employment systems like DoorDash or Uber where people are paid by the task and can freely decide whether to accept a particular job or not don’t count in this context.

          I’ve yelled at a boss once, and she reacted as she was supposed to, by initiating our early intervention program. She also realized I’d been under a lot of stress through overwork, and acknowledged that it was basically her fault she hadn’t even talked to me or my coworker about what resources a big project would require from us and overpromised to the point that I was stuck working 50+ hour weeks for months (my normal workweek is 36 hours 15 minutes, for context). When the project was finally done, she ordered me to take 2 weeks of comp leave and most of my annual summer vacation to rest, so I was out for 6 weeks straight. I never got an official diagnosis but I strongly suspect incipient burnout.

          She was also a touchy-feely manager who expected her reports to manage her feelings, and when there was no budget for raises for our team, we were basically supposed to act happy about it. Even the most professional expression of disappointment would have you consoling her, although I was very careful to say that I realized that the decision was out of her hands and appreciated knowing that she thought my work merited a raise. She never seemed to understand that while I was disappointed, I never blamed her for the lack of a raise.

          There are ways to deal with inappropriate behavior at work and firing is rarely the first step. That’s best reserved for truly egregious behavior (violence or threats of violence, embezzlement…).

          My employer had and still has a process for dealing with inappropriate behavior, unfair treatment, and harassment at work, and as I said my manager started the ball rolling. During that process I realized that the reason why I felt comfortable yelling at my manager was that as she’d befriended me and made me her confidante, I didn’t really see or respect her as my manager who had the right to take work off me when necessary (at the time I was also far too invested in “owning” my work).

          I apologized sincerely for yelling at her, and she accepted my apology graciously enough, and in turn apologized for not stepping up and intervening earlier when she saw how much I was working. I accepted her apology in return but our relationship never really recovered.

          In the end, both of us learned some valuable lessons; she learned that she wasn’t really suited to being a people manager, went to a sister organization for a 6-month job rotation and returned to do a special project for the department director, to avoid having a former report as her manager, after which she retired.

          I learned to be very careful about friendships at work, and I decided to be friendly and professional in all my work relationships, especially those with higher-ups. I currently have one friend-friend at work (someone I’ve exchanged private contact details with and occasionally hang out after work with) and several work friends who may of may not become friend-friends whenever one of us switches jobs, but who I don’t particularly want to hang out with outside of work, even if we make a point of sometimes going to lunch together when we’re at the office.

  14. Enescudoh*

    Hands up who was two sentences into this letter before they knew exactly what Alison was going to say

      1. Sleeve McQueen*

        This. OP your letter made me so sad that you’ve been conditioned to believe that being screamed at with the door shut is the better option. You shouldn’t be screamed at

    3. Emotional support capybara (he/him)*

      I was expecting Alison’s response tho either start or end with the immortal phrase “your boss sucks” but other than that, right on target.

      LW, your boss sucks.

      1. LongTimeReader*

        Yep, and the parenthetical that she gets annoyed when you ask questions? Your boss sucks.

        1. WeirdChemist*

          That detail stuck out to me as well… She’s made you afraid of asking clarifying questions? Yikes…. Asking questions is a great way to *prevent* mistakes!

  15. biblio*

    The open door has already worked to your advantage. Other people bearing witness to your boss’s lunacy can only work in your favor.

    You are allowed to say that you don’t want to be yelled at. When you walk away, you are better off going someplace out in the open, so if she follows you and continues yelling, there will be witnesses. But also, because if there are witnesses, she probably will not follow you to continue her tirade.

  16. Oaktree*

    I wonder what would happen if someone did as Allison suggests. Just walk out on a yelling boss.

    in a healthy workplace, or one with decent protections in place, you could do that, email your grand boss the reason and proceed to next steps. But healthy workplaces shouldn’t be tolerating abusive bosses in the first place, but many do.

    1. I've Escaped Cubicle Land*

      I’ve done it before. Both at work and with toxic family members. The line I usually use is “We can discuss this when you are prepared to be civil” Or with one particular niece “I don’t do getting yelled at.” It will generally make people drop their jaws, blink a few times, then stomp off elsewhere. A few of the more toxic family members have tried grabbing me by the arm as I got to walk off. I follow that up with loudly stating “Take your hands off me, you do not have right to restrain me. I will defend myself” The type that will try to put their hands on you don’t like witnesses. As heads snap around to see what I’m talking loudly about, they can’t let go and retreat fast enough.

      1. Muscadine*

        Seconding “The type that will try to put their hands on you don’t like witnesses.”

        Don’t ever be caught alone with this sort of person.

  17. Heather*

    It is perfectly acceptable to say, “I will not be yelled at.” and walk away.
    Then document in writing each instance and what you did.

    1. Rex Libris*

      Just for CYA purposes, it’s a good idea to add “but I’m happy to discuss this later when you’re calmer.” to mitigate accusations of insubordination.

      1. Heather*

        Disagree heavily. There is no need for the “softening” when someone is yelling at you.
        The most important part is documenting the instances and reporting them.

  18. Guacamole Bob*

    I knew from the headline and the “she gets annoyed when I ask her questions” parenthetical in the first paragraph that it was going to be time for OP to g a new job. It sounds like you were already kind of walking on eggshells around her prior to the recent screaming incidents, and that’s not a sign of a healthy work relationship.

    1. RVA Cat*

      This. The spreadsheets with no instructions weren’t a mistake – they were a trap. She is setting you up for failure so she can abuse you.

      I’m starting to wonder if those 9 months are the longest she’s had anyone stay.

      1. Slow Gin Lizz*

        I am not surprised that the coworkers are so concerned about OP; I bet they have heard this boss yelling at her other employees and have been concerned about all of them. It’s too bad that it appears they haven’t done anything about it (reported boss to HR or their superiors) but I don’t blame anyone for wanting or needing to stay out of an abusive situation in order to keep their own job.

    2. Laser99*

      I’m guessing she gets annoyed at questions because she is also incompetent (the yeller).

  19. Dasein9 (he/him)*

    Document, document, document!

    If you can’t afford to just quit, please do document the incidents so you are able to communicate with HR clearly and calmly. I write a “journal” entry by email and cc it to my personal email address, so that way I have the time/date stamp and also can easily see what else might have been going on that day.

    HR works for the company, not for you, but it is in the company’s best interest to prevent abuse of its employees.

    The documentation will also come in handy if and when you speak to an employment lawyer.

    3. Defying Gravity*

      Unfortunately, a boss yelling at you and being a jerk are almost never legally actionable. If OP came to me with this type of situation – even if the yelling was a daily occurrence – there would be literally nothing an attorney could do for her.

      1. Dahlia*

        It’s not just about the legality. The company (probably, unless very very toxic) cares about its reputation, as well.

        1. nnn*

          yes but the poster at the top of this thread was suggesting a lawyer and it’s important to point out that nothing here is illegal, just bad on a human level.

          1. allathian*

            Indeed. The same thing is true in Finland, too, unfortunately. So a manager who yells once at their employees is unlikely to face any consequences, but when it becomes routine to the point that it starts affecting people’s health, it can become a question of unfair treatment, or even harassment.

            But then, snapping at employees who are requesting clarification by asking questions is also considered not only bad management but also unfair treatment.

      2. Madonna*

        I’m so sorry to hear that that is the case where you are.
        Occupational Health and Safety Laws in Australia cover mental health injuries also. A good union lawyer in Australia will make short work of a company who allows their managers to treat employees like this.

  20. Charlotte Lucas*

    Did anyone else notice the red flag about boss getting annoyed when asked questions? Unless OP is one of those people who asks questions about every little thing, including things she should know, that is a huge red flag. (Even if OP were that way, there are good techniques for coaching people out of that behavior. So, red flag, either way.)

    1. Goldenrod*

      “Did anyone else notice the red flag about boss getting annoyed when asked questions?”

      Yes, IMMEDIATELY. I once worked for a horrible boss who would bark out an order as she passed by my office, then immediately disappear into her own office and close the door. I was not allowed to knock on her door to ask any follow-up questions about her demand, which I had barely heard. She was a PIECE OF WORK.

      Normal bosses don’t act like this!

  21. Insert Pun Here*

    Yeah, these are like…normal mistakes. The appropriate response (at least in the case where they are actually mistakes and not “boss didn’t give me enough info so I made my best guess”) is something like “I corrected xyz, please be sure to double check that in the future” and depending on the nature of the work “we do it that way because [whatever.]”

    I generally disagree with Alison in that I think it is okay to let A LITTLE BIT of frustration show if someone is making REPEATED mistakes. (This situation is not that.) But yelling is never appropriate. The only times anyone should be yelling in the workplace are (a) it’s too loud to be heard otherwise or (b) something is on fire or similar level of emergency. If someone makes a mistake that could get someone else killed then yeah okay yelling is understandable. Not the best response, and the yeller should apologize, but understandable. The errors described in the letter are not life-ending mistakes. This boss needs to get a grip. And some perspective.

  22. Crystal Claire*

    A yelling boss is a BAD boss. Update your resume, network and head for greener pastures.

  23. ursula*

    I have an extremely mild counterpoint about closing the door so you can be insulted and berated more privately: there are many situations in which it may be useful for other people to have heard your boss’ tantrum, and not many situations where giving an abusive person more privacy helps the person being targeted.

    You want witnesses, I think, even if you never need to use them. You want the social pressure of people hearing her to help keep your boss at least a little bit in check, even if she still loses it. You want other people in the office to hear what your boss is doing so they can protect themselves and/or start their own job searches. So if anyone ever reports it, everyone on that floor will agree that your boss yells a lot. So that maybe one day, HR is walking by as it’s happening. Who knows.

    Sorry you’re dealing with this.

    1. pally*

      Yes! And, it’s easier to walk away when the yelling does start if the door is open.
      (not that a closed door should deter one from getting away from anyone yelling at them!)

    2. Open door*

      The open door is your friend! If she will scream at you in public, she will only be worse with the door closed. Despite how humiliating it may feel in the moment, keeping the door open allows others to hear how awful she is. Remember that you cannot control how she responds to things, only how you respond. Your job is not to coach her to be better but to endure until you get a better job (or she gets fired but you can’t count on that).

      And for documenting – make sure you print out a hard copy of each relevant email, such as when work is assigned and when you ask questions and she answers them. If she yells again, send an email to yourself with everything you can remember and then print it out. If anyone says they heard and sympathize, same thing, write down their name and the date/time, email it to yourself and print. Save the hard copies at home if you can or with a trusted colleague.

  24. Ellis Bell*

    Window-shopping for new jobs always makes me feel better. What is to be lost for having a look around?

  25. My Outie Hoards Reese's Peanut Butter Eggs*

    Get out as soon as it’s feasible. This is not normal behavior, and if you can’t even ask questions about her expectations for an assignment without setting her off, it’s likely not going to get better even if you address her poor management with her directly.

  26. Yankees fans are awesome!*

    Flee when you can, OP, and never look back. Your jerk boss’s behavior isn’t normal, and is likely to erode your morale. Apply elsewhere as you can, if you can.

    I’m sorry this is happening to you. Your boss really, truly sucks.

  27. Veryanon*

    I had a manager once who was a yeller, in that she would stand in the middle of our open work space and yell at whoever was the target of her wrath. I finally got sick of it one day as she stood screaming at me for something that was completely out of my control and said quietly “I can’t understand you when you scream at me like that. We can discuss this once you’ve calmed down.” It took her so by surprise that she stopped mid-rant and never screamed at me again. I found another job shortly after that because that workplace was toxic in many ways.
    OP, it will not get better, I’m sorry. Please start looking for another job today if you haven’t already.

    1. Generic Name*

      Hilariously, that’s how I got my preschooler to not whine. Every time he would whine, I would say basically verbatim what you said, “I can’t understand you when you use that voice. Please say that again in your normal voice.” In other words, this boss is at best acting like a preschooler.

  28. Naomi*

    Even before you get to the yelling, it sounds your boss has unreasonable expectations and doesn’t know how to manage. She wanted you to do a large task quickly, but didn’t give you clear instructions and got annoyed at being asked questions? That’s already bad, and any mistakes you made under those circumstances are partly her fault too. Yelling about it is just the icing on the bad boss cake. Get out of there as soon as you can.

    (Also, if you’re not sure this is worth leaving over… have you had a pattern of bad bosses in the past? Alison has written before about how toxic jobs can warp your sense of what’s normal, and I’m wondering if that’s affecting your barometer for how bad this is.)

  29. I Can’t Odd*

    Not having ever met you, or your boss, I can say without a doubt that you do not deserve this, and it is 100% a problem with your boss. I’ve had bosses like that, and while I didn’t leave immediately (there were financial reasons why leaving quickly wasn’t a good option), I didn’t stay any longer than I had to, and I’d suggest you look at your options sooner rather than later.

  30. Sharon*

    I agree with Alison’s advice. It can be really hard to stand up to someone with power over your job, but it’s amazing how much you can change things just by staying calm, refusing to be treated badly, and focusing on the work goal.

  31. Laika the space dog*

    Definitely document as others have said. And calmly saying you won’t tolerate being yelled at is SUCH a great power move.

    In the movie version of this, the employee would open the closed door and say “I want to make sure everyone hears this.”

    Also, don’t be afraid to ask questions even if she gets annoyed about answering them. Sometimes people respond better to one email with every question you have laid out. Number them so what you want to know is very clear. That also gives you something to document if she yells at you for doing something wrong when she didn’t give you clear instruction.

    It definitely feels embarrassing to be yelled at, especially when you legitimately did make a mistake. But mistakes happen, and a good boss won’t berate you for them.

  32. ChurchOfDietCoke*

    Yelling is for emergencies such a the building being on fire and you have to get out NOW, or someone is dangerously ill and you need to call 999 NOW, or someone is stuck in a lift and needs to get attention.

    Yelling may also be suitable for expressing extreme pain (it helps, apparently) or for jubilation at an astonishing achievement.

    Yelling is not for communicating with another human being outwith of an the above situations. Get out, OP.

    1. Zona the Great*

      Yelling was also normal in a kitchen setting. It wasn’t yelling AT anyone, though. It’s just a hot, fast paced place with a ton of pressure. Eventually, you’re just told to go smash ice in the ice machine.

  33. Sneaky Squirrel*

    “I’m not sure whether this is “get a new job” worthy”.

    It is. Your boss is abusive. Par for the course isn’t “If I don’t make a mistake, I don’t get screamed at”, it’s “I don’t get screamed at ever and my boss treats me with respect.”

    Unless the spreadsheet typos would have seriously harmed or killed someone, there is NO excuse for a boss to scream. Even then, I’d argue that there are often better ways to handle those situations.

    1. mreasy*

      Early in my career, I had a volatile boss who yelled. 20 years later, I’m still unlearning some of the defense behaviors I had to adopt to work around her and minimize my abuse. The job market is no great shakes right now, but getting out of this workplace as soon as you reasonably can should be a priority, not only for your current health but for your future.

  34. Half April Ludgate, Half Leslie Knope*

    OP, this so closely mirrors my first job that I briefly wondered if you had my old boss! She would assign me huge workloads, ignore me when, in weekly check-ins, I’d tell her I felt overwhelmed, and when I made a mistake in a document I’d sent her for review, she sent me a formal letter of warning from HR. I didn’t realize then that mistakes are common and not something that requires screaming, belittling, formal HR documentation, etc. because I was so new to the professional workplace.

    It took a long time to move past that job, even after I left, because the trauma made me afraid to make mistakes for years. Get out now while you still can, and when you move to a new role, once you can trust your boss, tell them about this experience. One of the ways I recovered from that job was when, a few years later, I told a boss I trusted and respected about this experience, and the specific triggers I’d had (for me, it was being called into my boss’s office without warning or a heads up about what the topic of discussion was – that’s when she’d pounce). He was a kind person and began to modify how he’d call me in to his office so I wouldn’t panic and think I was in trouble.

    1. Slow Gin Lizz*

      Aw, I’m so glad you had a nice, kind, understanding boss after your abusive one. I too tend to panic when I’m called to my boss’ office (or, nowadays b/c I’m WFH, when he messages me that he wants to talk). I don’t know why my brain tends to assume the worst, but I’ve recently started to reply to “can we talk?” from him with “Sure, what about?” or “Sure, something good or bad?” He’s the kind of guy who won’t be offended by this response and will answer truthfully, and it really helps me worry less about unscheduled meetings. And fwiw, it’s always been something good, anyway. Maybe this’ll help train my brain not to catastrophize so much.

  35. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

    I’m curious about what the rest of the company is like. Is being a yelling jerk with ridiculously unreasonable expectations the norm? It sounds like it might not be, given that two co-workers were horrified enough to check in on the LW. Saying “eff this” and starting a job search is an entirely reasonable thing to do. But there could be a way of addressing the situation, if the overall company culture isn’t bananapants.

    Many years ago, I worked in retail. All the area managers were called into a regular meeting at head office with the District Manager. Everything was going OK until one manager brought up an issue. The DM totally lost it and started screaming at everyone. The walls were thin (and, I think, had gaps near the ceiling) and, apparently, the screaming was audible all up and down the hallway. The DM was put on “stress leave” right away and never returned. I have many complaints about working at that company, but they took swift and appropriate action on this one.

  36. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

    Veteran of abuse here. One abusive relationship and one abusive manager.

    You’ll NEVER fix them. You’ll NEVER stop them. It’s NEVER your fault.

    Your only objective is to get away with your sanity intact.

    1. Slow Gin Lizz*

      100000% this. And you can’t reason with them either. They’ll only move the bar so that you never satisfy their impossible standards.

      1. BekaRosselinMetadi*

        All this and more. My old manager loved to yell and complain so when I did things right-she hated it because then she couldn’t complain about it. Don’t worry, it only lasted a day and then it was business as usual. I had to laugh because she always said it was okay to make mistakes but absolutely was not and she made a point of saying how she did not make mistakes. Ever. The point is that it won’t change because this is who they are. Save yourself and get out.

      2. goddessoftransitory*

        Yes yes, a thousand times yes!

        This kind of person may seem to “demand perfection,” but it’s the last thing they actually want. How could they feel superior and put upon if you don’t mess up?

  37. Sigh.*

    Your boss is full of bees and probably won’t change, and you deserve to get a new job with bosses who AREN’T full of bees. I’m sorry you’re going through this OP. But yeah, you need to get out, and yesterday.

  38. Zona the Great*

    Honestly, I’ve had good results from a simple, “NEVER speak to me like that again”. When someone yells at you like this, the power dynamic is gone and I feel free to speak to them like I would a peer or stranger who speaks to me like that.

  39. Mytummyhurtsbutimbeingbraveaboutit*

    Ruuuunnnn

    If she can get away with this with the door open, it means multiple levels of management are failing

  40. Nope*

    100% your boss shouldn’t be yelling at you for anything or raising her voice at all, unless she’s yelling “fire, everyone evacuate!”

    If you grew up in a household like I did where people just screamed their heads off over every little thing, you may just be used to it or think it’s what you deserve but you don’t. Along with looking for a new job, I’d recommend talking to a professional. I left an abusive job around the same time I started therapy and it was really helpful.

    You. Don’t. Deserve. To. Be. Yelled. At. <- I sang this while twirling and throwing confetti, not yelling.

  41. Garlic Microwaver*

    Oh, boy. Talk to her like a toddler: “I understand you’re frustrated. But when you calm down, we can figure this out together.” And walk away. Key is “calm down.” She’ll get what belitting means if she has a soul.

  42. Chirpy*

    The open door is actually a good thing – you have *witnesses* to your boss’s bad behavior. And given that your coworkers came to ask if you were ok, they sound sympathetic. If you’re getting no instructions and can’t ask questions, and then are yelled at for not magically knowing what to do, the boss is clearly the problem here, not you.

  43. CubeFarmer*

    LW, you need to get another job. You are not going to sufficiently change your boss to create the respectful, collaborative relationship you need to succeed in this role.

    My old boss would always use reply-all to call out a mistake I made in an email. I think it made her feel smart (I know more, and I’m showing everyone) and productive (everyone can see that I’m doing something!). She also monopolized presentations because a) everyone could see her working b) she was a bit of a micromanger and probably wouldn’t have been happy with how I presented. She tried to change the presentation structure a little bit before she left, but it was definitely too late in coming. None of this made her look more productive in anyone’s eyes.

    When I took over her role, I promised myself that I would do things differently. First, I point out mistakes privately. Second, I share presentation responsibilities. It’s easy.

  46. dbc*

    I had co-workers tell me during lunch they couldn’t believe how my boss was talking to me when they overheard him– and this was in front of patients! I think it was performative (“See how overbearing I’m willing to be on your behalf…”?)
    But he insisted on an extremely firm pass with instruments, so firing a rather excessive thwack into his palm was very satisfying to me and acceptable to him. It kept me sane(ish) until I graduated from accepting the abuse (quit).

  47. Audrey*

    And the longer OP stays in this job, the more normal it will feel and will mess OP up dealing with managers who are reasonable!

  48. Csethiro Ceredin*

    She is not just a bad manager, she is a bad human, with a soul like a shrivelled little raisin.

    If she had a bad day and totally forgot herself then apologized, that would be bad but possibly forgivable, but to not allow someone to ask questions then abusively berate them for not knowing the answers is beyond the pale.

  49. Suze*

    The only time someone is ever justified in screaming at work is if they just found out they won the lottery…OR…they just found out their kid got a free ride to Harvard.

      1. Slinky*

        I did scream at work once after accidentally slicing my palm open. I expect that to be the first and last time, because I am a normal, non-abusive person.

  50. caryatid*

    What would be the advice to someone witnessing this kind of behaviour? I would love to be able to intervene in the moment on behalf of someone being yelled at by their boss.

    1. March*

      In the moment? Very difficult. Bad Boss will probably either turn their rage on you, take it out on yelled-at coworker later, or both. If you can take it, you could risk the former and later tell your coworker you have their back in case of latter, but it’s still risky.
      Also: talk about it to everyone. Put it as ot in the open as Bad Boss seems willing to let it be. Mention it to any coworker you talk to, in the tone of voice you’d use if you witnessed someone kick a dog: astonished and indignant. Name the boss but not who they yell at: “Man, yesterday I heard Cromulda go all Gordon Ramsey on some poor unfortunate soul. I really don’t understand. I have no idea who got it this time, but I hope they’re okay.”
      Let it be known. That’s the only thing you can do.

    2. Numbat*

      “Colleague, why don’t you come here for a minute and give Shouty a chance to cool down.”

    3. Sarah*

      I recently did active bystander training at work – the suggestions were as follows (whether / how effective they would be would depend a lot on who you are, your relation to the boss and the coworker, office culture etc):
      – Distract – start talking to the coworker – “Oh, sorry to interrupt, but Chris, I’ve been meaning to catch up with you about…”
      – Delegate – identify someone who you feel might be able to intervene and flag to them something is going on- possibly your boss’s boss or HR, I guess?
      – Document – take note of it responsibly and safely
      – Delay – check in with the coworker after the fact (like OP’s did)
      – Direct – confront the boss directly

  51. HappyPenguin*

    I’m sorry you’re dealing with that OP. I had such a boss who frequently screamed at his staff, and he even punched a hole in the wall next to me when I forgot to order a supply. I stayed far too long because after so many years of being beaten down I began to doubt myself. Thankfully I left that toxic job in 2016 and never looked back. I love my job and my bosses, and just had my 3rd promotion. Get out as soon as you can, OP. Your boss won’t change, and better things await…good luck!

  52. Samwise*

    Leave the door open.
    Document the crappy behavior.

    Leaving the door open means you have witnesses

  53. Jules the 3rd*

    Good luck OP, and no matter what, remember: This is about your boss, not you.

    Remember that you were so good at what you do that she had to invent two of the ‘mistakes’ by giving you wrong information and going after an non-final document. She was looking for something to yell about, and she had to fake them, because you’re that good.

    Please take this to HR or get out asap, and remember: it’s her, not you.

  54. TotesMaGoats*

    This was my first boss at my second job post college. The boss that due to micromanagement and anger/yelling stressed me out to the point that I worn myself down and collapsed in the shower. After that happened, it was someone else’s turn to get yelled at. One memorable time I answered the phone on speaker mode with two colleagues in my office and she immediately started screaming at me. Once she finally took a breath, I asked her to told while Susie and Stacie left my office. She toned it down some after that but it was never ok. It shouldn’t have been ok when it wasn’t my turn anymore either.

    Your coworkers are thinking bad thoughts about your boss, not you. Please also document but find a way to get out.

  56. K Smith*

    Adding to the chorus of “this is ABSOLUTELY ‘get a new job’ worthy”.

    Your boss sucks and does not know how to manage, nor are they interested in learning how to manage if this is how they are repeatedly behaving. Your boss is going to continue to behave badly.

    Yelling to berate someone is *never* acceptable in a professional environment. Yelling to alert someone of a life-or-death situation might occasionally be acceptable, but that’s not what your boss is doing – they’re yelling to berate and diminish. That’s never reasonable. You deserve to be treated with basic dignity and respect, OP.

  57. Neither Here Nor There*

    No, leave that door open. Do you want your boss to hide her bad behavior? No, you want it on full display. You want your coworkers to judge her. You want anyone with the authority to do something about her to hear this nonsense. Maybe the people who listen will go to HR themselves! Or they’ll back you up if you do—now it’s everyone’s problem, and everyone’s uncomfortable!

    Your boss is a doing something professionally repugnant. The more people who see it, the more likely it is that someone will shut it down hard.

  58. CommanderBanana*

    You gotta leave, OP, I’m sorry. I dipped from my last job because my boss, in addition to being an all-around garbage human, decided to burst into my office and scream at me because she misunderstood something someone else had said on Teams (yeah, I don’t get it either).

  59. Not that other person you didn't like*

    OP, I’d like to gently suggest that you seek out resources for abuse victims, including understanding the dynamics of abuse and how it can affect your thinking and self-concept. Much of that material is focused on domestic abuse (and rightly so), but workplace abuse is a real thing and a lot of the info. may be relevant and helpful to you. Naming this as abuse for yourself is going to be helpful in starting the internal recalibration you need to make healthy choices for yourself.

    With all my sympathy and support (I was once physically assaulted by a boss – grabbed and shaken – and continued working there so I have some first-hand experience with this).

      1. Not that other person you didn't like*

        No, even though other people were around, and it didn’t occur to me to go to HR either. I was a (small, female) 19 year old intern and he was my direct supervisor.

  60. WFH4VR*

    If that manager’s initials are JH, then you’ve just described my Boss from Hell. I lasted eight months. Could not take the screaming. Now I work with civilized people.

  61. Children's Librarian*

    As a newish public librarian, I had a supervisor who was a screamer. In public, in private, which triggered all sorts of childhood trauma.
    I had an excellent therapist. She said, no one gets to scream at you for whatever reason.
    Wait until she takes a breath and say quietly,
    “I cannot hear or understand your concerns when you raise your voice. I will never hear or understand what you want when you raise your voice. You cannot raise your voice when speaking to me.”
    Repeat as often as necessary- do not do or act on anything she says when she raises her voice.
    I only had to say it once and she never yelled at me again in the next 2 and half years I was reporting to her.

  62. CutenessCentral*

    There are too many previous comments for me to read before I add mine in.

    I’m feeling for you. I’ve been where you are with your boss – even outside vendors would call to check if I was ok.

    Learn from my mistake – I stayed for almost six years under this level of abuse. And have PTSD because of it.

    Start looking for other employment, you absolutely do not need to work like this. The odds are she will not change or move on. Once I decided to leave I found a better situation in just a few weeks.

  64. Not Crazy Cat Lady*

    OP, this is straight up bullying. I know because I have experienced it, too. In my case, my boss was a veteran who never learned to cope in a world where people didn’t stand and salute when she entered the room. It won’t get better unless you push back. Start with the advice given here. Document incidents and be ready to go to HR if you have to. And start thinking about whether you will have to walk away. That’s what I had to do. Wishing you the best. Remember, you do not deserve this.

  65. VP of Monitoring Employees' LinkedIn and Indeed Profiles*

    In addition to leaving without notice, OP should also omit this job from her resume.,

  66. RagingADHD*

    LW, I did once successfully stay in a job after telling my manager “I will not be spoken to that way, so if you have feedback for me, we need to figure out a more constructive way to communicate.”

    But only because she was an interim and I was about to start reporting to someone else anyway.

    Asserting your human dignity and looking for a new job are both the right answer here.

  67. Quality Girl*

    I’m from a field where people can die if we make certain mistakes. You’d think we’d get screamed at for every little mistake we make so we learn our lesson and not make worse ones…. nope. Not at all. Even with lives on the line, yelling and berating staff for their mistakes is the opposite of good management and it is not an effective way to prevent mistakes.

    OP your boss is WAY overreacting and I hope you can get out and find somewhere to work that respects you.

    1. allathian*

      I’m not in a field like that but it makes perfect sense. Fostering an environment where people can admit to making a mistake (and we all do that, no matter what the job) will ensure that processes are improved to prevent similar mistakes in the future. Anxious people tend to make more mistakes than less anxious people, simply because being anxious takes mental energy that could be better used on focusing on the job.

  68. Crencestre*

    To paraphrase Alison, your boss sucks and is not going to change.

    People most often change when they realize that doing what they’ve been doing has gotten them (A) nowhere ( B) into trouble and/or (C) fired repeatedly. Your boss is still in HER job so chances are that she sees no reason to change what she’s doing – hey, what she’s been doing has gotten her promoted into management, right? So don’t look for her to change any time soon…like within the current century.

    Yes, this is polish up your resume time, OP. Find another job before you start to internalize your boss’s verbal abuse and normalize the batspit-crazy atmosphere that she’s created in your workplace!

  70. Workerbee*

    Yeah, your boss is toxic, OP. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this!

    Bosses like that typically don’t feel the need to change because they think they’re 100% justified in being assholes. I hope you find another, better job soon.

  71. Lenora Rose*

    I made 2 mistakes last week. One involved not handing my boss some documents that had been printed to pass out for a meeting presentation before he drove to the location where the meeting took place, even though they’d been on my desk and ready for over a week. The other involved not including the name of one of the key people at an event, meaning we had to scramble to find her a seat (as we were already technically one over.)

    The former was solved by sending the documents to each individual participant through the internal courier system, the latter, the event organization found a spot where someone in another group had canceled, and we agreed to take on the extra expense.

    Nobody screamed. Nobody shouted. I think the loudest sounds were my personal horror on realizing A was NOT on my carefully assembled list, and my apologies for same.

    If you get screamed at for filling out one spreadsheet column wrong (and in a way anyone looking at the spreadsheet would likely understand), your boss is the one in the wrong, not you.

  72. I Have RBF*

    From long and bitter experience: A boss yelling or screaming at you or one of your coworkers is an RGE (resume generating event.) It is a signal that you have a major problem that is not likely to go away. I have horror stories. Do not collect more of your own. Get out – start your job search now.

    1. Madonna*

      RGE!! Love it!! I will henceforth be using this!

      Only thing that would make it better is some thing like
      Resume Adapatation
      Generating Event. Though there would really be no rage involved, just semi-amused gentle humming.

  73. Broccoli Soup*

    Sounds like my old boss. It never got better. Leave, and don’t let it warp your ideas of what’s normal! It’s absolutely unacceptable.

    All of us were told our work was garbage. She threw a tantrum on someone’s last day over how they had been filing documents – didn’t matter that the person was laid off because our organization was publicly imploding. She pulled out the contents of multiple filing cabinets and tossed them on the floor, berating the employee for her “bad systems” (aka, not how the manager would have organized things. Never mind that this had never come up before).

    When management stepped in and asked her to apologize to the poor woman (who was still understandably upset hours later), she didn’t apologize. She quit on the spot and stormed out of the building.

    It took me years to recover and not feel fear over mistakes or asking questions.

  74. Raida*

    If this is the only time she’s done this, I’d be talking with her manager about the alarming change in behaviour.
    It is unacceptable, unprofessional, irrational, emotional, and opens the business up to Risk.

    If this is a pattern then you can either train her to *not* talk to you that way by discussing it and then in the moment when it starts to happen cut her off.
    Or make a complaint to HR.
    Or leave.

    For me, if I liked the job, I’d be offering her the “you don’t talk to me like that, mate.” option, with a clear message of “and remember I’ve noted this, there’s witnesses, I can still go to HR if you retaliate.” and get on with it. But I’m comfortable with being a bit threatening.

  75. Filosofickle*

    This will sound like a fake story, but it’s not! My boss yelled at a coworker in front of the team, and the next day I went to his office and said just so you know if you ever yell at me I walk. Not sure why I felt the need to do that preemptively, but it felt important and I was 23 and more idealistic than political.

    He wasn’t actually a terrible boss, but he had some real blind spots. I never heard him yell again.

  76. Hola Playa*

    I worked for this boss for four years. I became a shell of myself in every part of my life that took years from which to recover. Zero stars. Do not recommend. GTFO now.

  77. HB*

    I told a new manager (who turned out to be a screamer) on Day One “do not scream at me” and reported her.

  79. March*

    LW, your boss is a bad manager and probably not a very nice person. The problem is extremely not you. It’s probably hard to feel that as true when you live with her in real life and this is just something a stranger on the internet says, so if you have people in your life who will react to “my boss screams at me for tiny mistakes” with a variation on “wow, your boss sucks, I’m sorry, how are you feeling, let’s get a donut”, talk to those people. All of those people. You are NOT the problem here. That’s where this starts. For the rest, Alison, Captain Awkward, and either a job search or therapy to keep yourself aware of how Not The Problem you are in this.

  80. Moogle*

    Back in 2004, I had a Director like this. She never yelled at me, but we all heard her on a regular basis yelling and swearing at a variety of people. You could hear her from down the hall, with her door closed. And this was in the government, with a union! There were complaints, so she got promoted to DG since she was retiring soon….

  81. Bluz*

    Omg. Run like the wind. Start sprucing up the resume and start looking for another job. Your boss sounds unhinged and I don’t think they’ll listen to reason. Your mental health is way more important than this.

  82. Madonna*

    Completely agree with Alison and most of the comments here already.

    Really, start looking for another job.

    That said, if this occurred again, in your position I’d be sorely tempted to interrupt her and say “Are you ok? I’m worried about you. You seem to be under a lot of stress. Is there some background pressure to the timeline with this that you’ve not shared with me? Is your job on the line because this is something being dems Nbb see from above? Maybe if you could give me some context for how this spreadsheet fits into the big scheme of things, I might get where you’re coming from.”

    I know that’s probably not realistic but it would possibly jolt her into seeing how irrational and unhinged she sounds. Maybe only try this approach when you’ve got another job lined up!

  83. Madonna*

    RGE!! Love it!! I will henceforth be using this!

    Only thing that would make it better is some thing like
    Resume Adapatation
    Generating Event. Though there would really be no rage involved, just semi-amused gentle humming.

Comments are closed.