boss blames my employee for getting stuck in the Middle East during the war, I’m about to get promoted but I want to quit, and more

by Alison Green on April 8, 2026

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. My boss blames my employee for getting stuck in the Middle East during the war

My employee used six weeks of vacation to go back to his home country with his pregnant wife and toddler. It was the first time he’d be with his parents and siblings all together in over a decade. He was due to fly back three days after the war with Iran started, and as his flight went through that region, his flight was cancelled. He was rebooked two weeks later but tried daily to get a different flight and showed up to the airport, he and his family fully packed, because flights going out that day weren’t officially cancelled until around noon each day. After a hellish 55-hour journey, he and his family are safely back and he’s back to work. That period between his normally scheduled flight and when he got back exhausted the small remaining amount of vacation hours he had.

But hark! HR told me we have a policy to allow for up to 10 days of admin leave in the event of a disaster, and said this qualifies. Wonderful! I asked if the policy is that the 10 days can be used first or if it can be used only after vacation time has been exhausted, which is a frequent stipulation in some of our other leave policies.

My boss responded that she thinks because “we all knew” war was imminent and he didn’t try to leave earlier, he should get to use only five days and not the full 10. If the employee was in Iran when the war broke out, she’d give him the full 10. But she wants to hear what efforts he made ahead to get out quicker.

She consistently lets her feelings about people’s work cloud her judgment to be a good human when it’s not only the most righteous, but also easiest, choice to make. But hey, at least she put this BS in an email so I can share it back with HR. How should I respond?

“We all knew” war was imminent? Some of Congress didn’t even know war was imminent. Your boss is an ass.

Your employee and his family went through a scary and exhausting ordeal. Your company has a policy set up specifically for disasters. This was a disaster. He should be given the full amount of time HR said was available.

Share your boss’s response with HR and say that you’d like your employee to receive the full 10 days, and that you’re dismayed by the suggestion to penalize him on the grounds that he “should have known.” You might also point out that your boss’s suggestion could be taken as national origin discrimination, which is illegal.

2. I’m about to get promoted but I want to quit

I am mid-20s working at a small office with less than a dozen people while I finish my degree. My boss has told me I will be promoted once funding is approved, and because of that I have been asked to take on more leadership tasks. I have three coworkers who were both hired less than six months ago who both think that, if promotions were to come, they should get them (this is their first job). I have another coworker who is technically an external contractor who works closely with the three new people. Because of her role/contract, she is essentially unfireable for the next two years. She often acts as if she is in charge, something management has told me she has been asked not to do.

A week ago, I had a startling conversation with her and my three other coworkers. She has a habit of staying in conference rooms during meetings she is not a part of, and during this meeting she said that she was the de facto manager of the office, told the other coworkers to disregard what I was asking them to do as it was “not their work” (it is), and asked why I am still working here and said I should have left by now. The other three seemed to feel that the work being discussed was beneath them and heavily implied that they saw me as an obstacle to promotion.

It was clear to me I cannot stay at this job. The power struggle being played into long predates my coworkers, and now that they are friends with this new person and feel half of their workload is irrelevant, I feel strongly that there is no way I can continue my work without being resented or undermined.

My problem is this. I have been working closely with my supervisors to prep me for this promotion. They will feel blindsided if I just quit, and I struggle to imagine how I could pretend everything is fine for the next two months. But if I tell my supervisor what happened, I assume they would try to address things, which I just don’t want. I don’t want to hurt my reputation by covering for them (especially as a recommendation from my supervisor will be important in future career/education steps) but I also don’t want to make the last few weeks of the job miserable. What should I say to my boss and how should I approach the next eight weeks?

Wait, wait! Deciding to leave feels premature — why not first talk to your manager about what got said in that meeting and share your concerns about what this means for your ability to be effective in your work there? If they’ve told this contractor in the past to stay in her lane, it’s very likely that they’ll be upset to hear she’s doing this again. If your manager is even a little bit decent at her job, there’s a strong chance she’ll want to intervene with both the contractor and the other three coworkers.

If you’re just done with this job and ready to get out regardless, that’s of course your prerogative! But otherwise there’s value in talking to your manager about this conversation before you decide anything.

If you do decide you’re going to leave … well, job searching usually takes some time and there’s a decent chance you could still be there two months from now. But at whatever point you do leave, if they’re blindsided by that when they told you to expect a promotion, that’s not necessarily reasonable on their side. It doesn’t sound like they’ve given you a specific timeline and “you’ll be promoted once funding is approved” can mean anything from “you’ll be promoted in three weeks” to “we hope you’ll be promoted sometime next year” to “there are no solid plans at all and I can’t give you any sort of timeline, but it’s something we’d like to do.” It’s not reasonable to assume someone will pass up other opportunities on that sort of thin promise.

But even if they have a solid timeline in place that you find credible, you’re still allowed to leave! You’d frame it as, “I really appreciate you going to bat to get me a promotion, but another opportunity fell in my lap and was too good to pass up.” Or, “I really appreciate you going to bat to get me a promotion, but I’ve realized staying doesn’t make sense for me because of X / a different role is more aligned with what I want to do / etc.”

3. New employee doesn’t want to work the hours we hired them for

We hired an employee for a specific time slot — evenings and Saturdays. Because of clients’ needs, we were able to move the original schedule earlier (11am-7pm instead of 5pm to midnight). The employee appreciated this. The employee then negotiated for Thursdays off because of regularly being scheduled for Saturdays. Then they asked that the Saturday work be remote, so we offered a trial of on-call that would require them to come in only if necessary. Now the employee is asking that Saturdays be rotational.

I would be sad to lose this employee, but I’m guessing we need to start searching again? The evening and weekend hours of this role were communicated up-front, and I find it frustrating that the employee is regularly coming back to try to renegotiate.

Yes, you’re probably going to need to start searching again, but first just be straightforward with the employee and ask for them to be straightforward in return: “We hired for this role specifically because we need someone to work Saturdays, and that’s not something we can change. Knowing that the job does require working Saturdays and it can’t be rotational, does the position still make sense for you?”

4. Explaining why I’m quitting the federal government

I thought I could stick out this administration, but my job has become a nightmare. After losing roughly half our group, the demands have only grown, particularly with quick deadlines. This, apparently, is in exchange for forcing us to commute every day, imposing a cap on the number of employees exceeding expectations, and changing the primary criteria to remove or demote employees due to performance evaluations.

Is there any exception to not disclosing reasons for quitting and the prohibition on speaking ill of a former employer when that employer explicitly is trying to put its employees in trauma and dread going to work every day? Is it too much to say it’s no longer a good fit, or the costs now are too great?

You can just say, “With everything going on in government work right now, I’m interested in moving to something more stable, and I’m particularly interested in this job because ____.”

You’re falling into the very common trap of thinking you need to give an accurate or comprehensive answer to this question; you don’t, and it’s often not in your best interests to, even when you’re 100% in the right (and even when the employer would know you were likely in the right; you want their focus on why you’d be great for the job they’re hiring for, not whatever bananas drama is happening at your old job).

More here:

how should I explain why I’m leaving my job when the answer is horrible/messy/shocking?

5. My manager is changing my timesheets

I am a non-exempt employee who works in healthcare for a large company that provides a specific contracted service. My hours are unpredictable and vary day by day, week by week. Sometimes I work overtime, although usually I average about 30 hours/week. I punch in/out using an electronic payroll app on a company-provided device. We’ve recently gone through a period with an unusually high patient census and are also understaffed, so more hours and overtime for me.

During this time, I noticed that my paychecks did not seem to accurately reflect the hours that I worked, so I started keeping my own record and then compared it to my punch times on the payroll system. I found that my manager has been editing my timesheets. I believe she is trying to meet (in my opinion, unreasonable) company metrics, but it is extremely disheartening to be working these ridiculous hours to find out that I’m not being compensated for them. In the app, you can see that the time was edited and who did the editing (my manager’s name).

My partner is a manager for a well-known company, and he has a good relationship with his HR and asked for their advice. HR informed him that adjusting employee timesheets is illegal and a firing offense, and it puts the company at risk.

My partner wants me to report this. One of the reasons I never went into management is because of the politics and pressure involved, but I do love my job and my patients, and at this stage in my career I do not want to face retaliation or the inability to find another position in my field. Then again, I’m feeling anger and frustration at stepping up and working unreasonably long hours when no one else was available, without compensation for all the time that I worked. I’ve always had a good relationship with my manager so there’s the feeling of betrayal as well. My manager has also been in her position for many years, in a role that is notorious for high turnover, so I’m unsure whether the company would even be supportive if I reported. I’ve been thinking about contacting an employment lawyer to help me navigate this situation, especially in the event of retaliation. Honestly, I’d just like to be paid for my time and continue doing the job I love. Since I brought the discrepancies to my manager’s attention, my timesheets have not been touched. But I do wonder if this is happening to others on my team and within my company, and that is weighing on my conscience as well.

You absolutely need to report this to your company. It’s illegal, it’s a liability for them, and you are legally owed that money. It doesn’t matter what your manager’s reasons were for doing it; it’s flatly against the law, and you are being stolen from.

If you’re concerned about retaliation, you don’t need to mention that your manager is the one who did this when you report it. Just say that your paychecks aren’t matching up to the hours you’ve logged and ask that it be investigated and fixed. You don’t need a lawyer to do this; it’s worth involving one if you do start seeing retaliation, but most likely you’ll report it and your company will fix it since the law is black and white on this. If they don’t, then bring in the lawyer.

{ 297 comments }

{ 297 comments… read them below }

  1. Cmdrshprd*

    OP5, depending on your state and how good the department is you could also report to the state department of labor, you may be able to do it anonymously, but companies can sometimes figure out who it was.

    But going that route has the potential to burn the bridge with the employer, so it can be beneficial to go to HR/employer first. it really depends on what you know of them.

    if you think they would try to fix it approach company first, if they wouldn’t I would say go lawyer router of state dol route.

    1. RIP Pillowfort*

      Yeah every time I’ve seen this thing come up it’s a pretty clear cut set of steps.

      1. Document the theft.
      2. Give the company the chance to fix it.
      3. If they refuse, then go lawyer/DoL

      It’s hard to know how the company will respond but my experience is most well-run companies do not like to be put in the situation of owing backpay to employees by managers altering timecards after submission.

      1. Asloan*

        This is interesting to me, I’d probably take screenshots / download the data first, but my second step would be to ask my boss what’s going on. Perhaps there’s something OP’s not aware of (paid/unpaid break confusion can cause this kind of issue)? Just obviously don’t like, confront the boss alone in a small English town, particularly if she says “who have you told about this?”

        1. Eldritch Office Worker*

          That’s a question HR can answer. It’s not going around your boss to ask HR directly, this is their job, and it’s their job to protect you from retaliation if you bring something illegal to their attention. The boss may be doing nothing wrong and there could be confusion, or your boss could panic and try to cover their ass. I would start with HR and loop the boss in later if it turns out to be innocent.

          1. HR Exec Popping In*

            Agreed. The fact that the system shows the audit trail means the LW does not need to share what is happening, a review of the system will show that and enable HR to handle it correctly. And if it has to go to the state or lawyers need to get involved that is great evidence that generally can not be falsified.

        2. ecnaseener*

          LW says they’ve brought this to their manager’s attention — if the manager didn’t take that opportunity to offer a good explanation, I don’t think LW needs to go back and explicitly ask whether there is one. (Plus the manager stopped doing it after LW brought it up, so like, no, there’s not a good explanation.)

        3. Antilles*

          An innocent explanation is theoretically possible, but it feels rather unlikely IMO because the Boss hasn’t said anything even when it’s happened multiple times.
          I’ve worked in industries with timesheets for a couple decades. Incorrect timesheets happen occasionally, both on my side and from reviewing others. Every single time, it was at least mentioned that btw, I had to fix your timesheet from last week because you billed X instead of Y.
          The idea that the Boss would see OP inputting time incorrectly and not say anything, even when the mistake is repeated isn’t likely.

          1. EPluribusYourMom*

            Isn’t likely at all. Any manager worth their salt would have been bringing it up every week. “This position requires accurate time accounting and I’ve had to change your timesheet 3 out of the last 4 weeks. Do better.”

            The fact that the manager didn’t do this tells me she did it on the sly, hoping LW wouldn’t notice. I feel sad for her coworkers. LW seems to like their job and finding a hands-on patient-based employee who likes their job? That’s a rough job in a rough industry. You cherish those types of employees.

        4. Brooks*

          I would not go to the obviously shady manager about this! Straight to HR – if manager needed to change time sheets for some legitimate reason she should’ve told the employee.

          1. RIP Pillowfort*

            That’s where I fall on this. Anytime a manager has needed to change my timecard, they told me what they did. And it was always to fix an error that was in the system. Like putting leave on a holiday and didn’t realize it while I was out on FMLA (true story).

          2. NobodyHasTimeForThis*

            agreed. The only time I have edited timesheets is when an employee missed a punch and then did a manual punch for something like 3 am when they meant 3 pm . There are strict rules about editing and managers access to edit can be removed in most software.

            I had to be a supervisor for 3 years before I had edit granted. Before that I had to email HR to have them edit. Not a bad rule.

        6. LL*

          OP has mentioned it to their manager and the manager has stopped adjusting their timesheets. They just haven’t received the back pay yet. So, the correct next step here is HR/payroll.

        7. LL*

          Although on second thought, my boss can’t do anything about payroll issues, so I’d absolutely go to HR/payroll immediately after realizing something was wrong with my paycheck.

        8. Hannah Lee*

          Anytime I’ve been involved in that kind of ‘correction’ with time entered as worked doesn’t align with policy like the paid/unpaid break example you gave, there is almost always a feedback loop so the employee knows the change was made.

          ‘Hey, Fergus, Payroll noticed you deducted 15 minutes time for your morning breaks this week, but didn’t clock out for your lunch breaks. Just to clarify – morning break time is paid, so you don’t have to deduct 15 minutes for that. But lunch breaks are unpaid, so you should clock out/indicate your lunch breaks in the pay tracker when you break for lunch. I’ve corrected your time in the system for last week so you’ll see the corrected time on your pay statement. Please be sure to record your time like that going forward. If you’ve ever have a question, just let me know.’

          But in OP’s case, their manager has been changing their time worked repeatedly over multiple pay periods, without mentioning it. That makes it much less likely it’s happening for a real (policy or legal reason) and more that the manager is just massaging their payroll numbers … and possibly they themselves are misunderstanding timekeeping rules.

      2. Another One*

        My feeling is generally that things like this come from one of two places-

        1. A manager focused on their own benefit- maybe a bonus if they hit goals/quotas/etc

        or

        2. A company problem- when issues like this permeate an employer, when that’s the case it feels like the company is just a ticking time bomb.

        1. Hannah Lee*

          The 3rd option I’ve seen is when a manager just misunderstands or forgets standard practice and has to be reminded.

    2. anonon*

      Honestly, I would advise LW5 to file a wage theft complaint with their state department of labor (or city, if they have one, or federal if nothing else) right away. DOLs are busy and they’re not going to immediately open an investigation; it takes time to get cases assigned and start the investigation process. By the time the LW hears from the DOL, they’ll have been able to see if HR will resolve it without outside intervention. A lot of people wait to see if they can get somewhere with HR first and then have to wait on the DOL’s process after that, from what I’ve seen. It’s better to file and withdraw than have to wait longer.

  2. Mni Sóta Salt*

    LW #5:
    I’d like to highlight what Allison said, “You are legally owed that money”. It’s not just moving forward–you are owed ALL money backdated. When you go to HR–and I very much hope you do–ask them to compensate you for previous timesheets that were adjusted as well.

    1. Bob k*

      They should be aware they risk their job. You will probably have to report it but expect a long court fight and even then getting paid is a 50/50 shot if you win.

      1. Radioactive Cyborg Llama*

        I’m curious why you say this. Litigation is probably much more expensive than just paying her the back wages and firing someone after they report wage theft is already a prima facie case for retaliation. I think getting paid by a large company after a judgment is better than 50/50 odds. A small company is another matter.

        Also, they could just … not pay her and not fire her. In which case, I’d say don’t work overtime ever again.

        1. Andrew*

          I can answer that for Bob: it’s because it’s even cheaper and easier in the short term to not pay, and just hope the uppity peons don’t know, or can’t enforce, their rights.

          (…They do and they can? *shockedpikachu.jpg*
          …and we would’ve gotten away with it, too, if it weren’t for (s)you meddling kids and that dog(/s) your lawyer and the DoL!)

          1. Antilles*

            Except in this case, OP asking is itself indicates pretty clearly that OP is aware of their rights.
            Also, the time-sheet changing doesn’t seem to be a company-wide directive or something with high-level support, but one manager going rogue to meet his own metrics. Is the HR rep going to risk their own career just to cover one guy’s ass?

            1. Eldritch Office Worker*

              Right. And most employment lawyers will take a case like this on contingency, so there’s very little risk to OP while the company would have to pay legal fees and create a court record for a very clear violation on their end.

              If you push back at all, companies are MUCH more likely to correct the mistake or come to a legal settlement. It’s risk management. HR and legal are not short sighted about these sorts of things. The manager might be but that’s why you don’t start with the manager.

          2. Hannah Lee*

            Though in some places, the employer runs the risk of having to pay treble damages if they withhold an employee’s pay, including overtime where due. (Maryland and NJ I think. Maybe other places) Especially if the employee notified them of the error and they didn’t quickly correct it.

            So say OP was short paid $1000 since last month, the employer might have to pay them $3000 instead. And if it’s been going on for away the treble damages on back pay could add up quickly.

      2. Ask a Manager* Post author

        Absolutely not true in a case like this. In fact, depending on the specifics, the state dept of labor may deal with it for them and they might not even need a lawyer. This is not like suing for discrimination or harassment where it could be a lengthy and drawn-out battle.

        1. Andrew*

          Definitely, although it’s certainly not out of line to point out that even relatively “easy” claims can still have risks of retaliation or turn into non-trivial financial, emotional, and/or scheduling commitments. (That said, you addressed retaliation already and the other risks are negligible when it’s a single manager gone rogue, probably to improve their own metrics and fraudulently claim an incentive or inflate a bonus.)

        2. Not that other person you didn't like*

          My son was shorted on pay for some short-term contract work that he’d had confirmed in writing. The owner refused point blank, again in writing. It was a small amount, so I suggested that he call the local Department of Labor to lean on the business owner.

          Alison, turns out that in my state they aren’t resourced to do that. When he finally got a call back they said he could fill out a complaint for their records, but that they wouldn’t be acting on it. They suggested that he’d need to file in small claims to recover the wages. Since my son was young (thought legally an adult) he asked me to be involved, so I heard and saw – in email – this messaging with my own eyes and ears.

          1. Full of Woe*

            I suspect the DOL was not able to help your son because he was a contractor, not an employee. The law treats them differently (because they are).

    2. Ganymede II*

      Seconding (thirding?) this. Wage theft is theft. Period. The company stole from you. Take out of the equation that the vector used for that was your manager. The company stole from you, they must pay you back, and if they do not, use the legal avenues available to have that fixed.

      1. Asloan*

        Someone once pointed out that if an employee steals even a small amount from an employer they could expect to be fired immediately and possibly charged, yet wage theft on a mass scale is so common it’s probably the largest type of crime. This lives rent-free in my head forever.

        2. El*

          Yes!!!!

          OP5, you seem like a conscientous person. Would you feel right if you stole money from your company? That is what they are doing to you. Your manager might not be thinking of it this way in the moment when she is panicking. But it doesn’t change what it is.

          IMO, it is a kindness sometimes to give people the chance to fix the ways they injure others, even if it means making them briefly uncomfortable. By reporting it, you are giving the company, and your manager, grace and the ability to make this right.

        3. Cosmerenaut*

          If it lives rent-free in your head, is it time theft? Badum tish.

          I hate, hate, HATE all the double standards of employee vs employer that only ever seem to benefit the latter.

    3. Seeking Second Childhood*

      If this happened in the previous tax year, how does that affect OP?

      Does OP get paid & withheld for last year now? Does the IRS consider it last year’s earnings snd require updated tax forms?

      If this is big enough paid all at once could affect tax bracket for one year and I’d suggest her family research ways to offset it.

      1. Ama*

        I have had an employer mess up paychecks going back into a previous tax year (in my case they discontinued a pre tax benefit but never stopped taking the money out of my paychecks). The employer filed a corrected W2 and then I had to file an amended tax return. It’s annoying because the employee has to do extra admin because of the company’s mistake but the corrected sum should be credited to the proper tax year or years.

        1. Ama*

          Credited to the year it was supposed to be originally paid not the year the corrected payment was made.

      2. OP*

        That’s a really great point. The company should not only make it right in terms of back wages, but also acknowledge that there are other associated costs (like paying to file corrected taxes), and offer that too.

        Also, OP, I really hope you tell all your coworkers about this. I bet you’re not the only one affected and there’s strength in numbers.

        1. Oops*

          Sorry, I was an OP recently, and accidentally didn’t change the name. Not the OP for this post

    4. SideEyeMaster*

      Not sure if it’s been mentioned, but in some states, there are laws about wage theft that add penalties to what you are owed! For example, in Massachusetts you could be awarded three times the actual wages owed to you.

      1. Another One*

        Mass has really strong wage protection laws- I imagine because of the history of factories and unions in the state. And a really good state labor dept.

    5. Bathyphysa Conifera*

      And in terms of working for other companies: “I left because they were changing my time sheets to avoid paying me for my work” is a very obvious reason. Sane companies would expect competent nurses to leave if they pulled this.

    1. Andrew*

      I can count five top (well, bottom) contenders as of this post. #1 and #5 here, asking for a tampon is unprofessional, PTO suspended for a year, and the ridiculously racist boss/office a few weeks ago. Cardboard-cutout-coworker boss might count too, but the madness there came mostly from coworkers.

        1. Andrew*

          Inc ones are old and don’t count. The one BETWEEN that post and this one might be in the running, though!

  4. Letter Reprint*

    Allison, either I’m experiencing my own personal glitch in The Matrix or letter 1 has already been published recently. I can’t seem to find the link to the previous one, so now I really am worried it’s the first option…

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      It was in a recent open thread and someone suggested making an exception to the normal rule that open thread posts aren’t eligible for Worst Boss of the Year nominations … so I suggested the LW submit it to me to attain eligibility.

      That doesn’t mean you’re not experiencing a glitch in the matrix though.

      3. Slow Gin Lizz*

        Nice of you to allow that for this boss who is DEFINITELY the worst boss so far this year, but I admit my memory of letters older than about three days is pretty weak.

    2. Me too!*

      Haha, I know this letter as well, not from an open thread.
      Not that it matters – just trying to give a little bit of peace of mind.

      1. A Jane*

        The weird thing is I remember Allison’s response too, so really feels like a Matrix glitch to me; other’s experiences may vary :)

  5. Lee Plum*

    LW2:

    “But if I tell my supervisor what happened, I assume they would try to address things, which I just don’t want.”

    The answer given basically said, “tell your supervisor so that they will address things,” which completely ignores that you said you don’t want them to!
    I am very curious about why you don’t want your manager to address things with any of these people.
    If you were to take this up with your manager and try to address things, it will not be a one and done conversation. There will be an ongoing power struggle between you, the contractor, and your coworkers. It is very challenging to work in that situation, and I do not blame you for wanting to just nope out of it.
    I do think you have more options than noping out or getting into a power struggle, but they all start with talking to your manager. I genuinely am curious why you do not want to engage your manager.

    1. KateM*

      I don’t think that there will be any less power struggle if OP doesn’t tell their supervisor – it will only mean that OP is struggling alone on their side.

    2. Asloan*

      I think OP was unable to imagine any positive outcome from having her boss tell these people (who she might end up managing) that their conversation was reported by OP, and doesn’t believe these people would be dismissed or reassigned to a new supervisor. Sometimes it’s hard to picture how things could get better. Now, partly OP may be worrying too much because as in the response this could be one of those fictive promotions that are more about getting you to do unpaid higher-level work and feeling too locked in to leave – very common in the nonprofits I’ve worked, and OP should try to push back as much as possible on any expectations that she’s a manager in all but title/money – but also the boss might surprise her with possible suggestions she hasn’t considered, like breaking up the team in a different way. A lot of times there’s one troublemaker and a few sheepy followers, and if you can separate them the problem solves itself. I think it’s worth bringing up anyway, since the alternative is the same (OP leaves rather than take the promotion).

      1. KateM*

        In this case, you are a contractor who is bossing employees around. Not using this contractor anymore seems like a very easy way to get rid of the main troublemaker.

        1. MassMatt*

          Except for this: “Because of her role/contract, she is essentially unfireable for the next two years.”

          She either has some sort of ironclad contract or unicorn skills the company needs, and she knows it. I think this is a big reason why OP is reluctant to have management address it; the manager can’t really do anything.

          Personally I very much doubt anyone is actually that irreplaceable, but this idea isn’t uncommon at dysfunctional workplaces, and this one certainly seems to qualify. A contractor acting as if she’s the office manager is pretty brazen, but she’s getting away with it.

          1. Jules the 3rd*

            Nobody is really unfireable. It may delay projects, it may make them scramble to find someone with the right licenses to cover, etc, but no one is really unfireable.

            The real question is which one they want to keep *more*, OP or contractor. Contractor sounds toxic; insubordination (ignoring the order to not act like a manager) is one of the things you can not fix as a manager, and you can not keep around.

            But it sounds like OP’s management is not effective, and won’t address it the way it needs to be addressed, with firing the contractor and a talk to the new employees about org roles and expectations. Just talking to the contractor is clearly ineffective.

          2. Spreadsheet Queen*

            There is a lot of risk to the company of allowing this contractor to supervise company employees in such a way that she has control of their work. It’s one thing to train, advise, lead a task or project as a contractor, etc and another to be able to determine what tasks the company employees will and will not perform, how they will prioritize work outside the scope of the portion that the consultant leads, etc. If there’s not a fairly bright line, the company risks the IRS interpreting the contractor to be an employee. Management absolutely should be made aware of the contractor’s over-stepping. (And in fact, noting the company risk could help OP be more heard by their manager.)

        2. DJ Abbott*

          Second not using this contractor. Does the manager/management realize how bad she is? Is there a way to make sure they do? They should be able to get rid of her if they want to badly enough.

          1. DJ Abbott*

            But even if that happens, it would be understandable if LW still wants to leave. It sounds like quite a mess there.

      2. Ann*

        I agree with OP that talking to the boss is not likely to change the situation. The resentment and undermining seem pretty entrenched. That said, telling the boss is still a good idea. Even if OP quits, the boss needs to know that the remaining employees are a problem, and will likely continue to cause problems for any new manager unless they are let go (is there really such a thing as unfireable?)

    3. Helvetica*

      I am also confused by this argument or how LW#2 thinks that the only way out is to quit. The contractor and the newly hired coworkers are clearly out of line! You are being prepared for a promotion! Why on earth would you have to quit to resolve this issue?

      1. Jules the 3rd*

        If LW2’s right that management sees the contractor as unfireable, then LW2’s right that the solution is to leave.

        Yes, contractor is out of line. LW2’s seen how they have reacted to that before, with verbal “don’t do that”. It didn’t work, and unless management is willing to fire the contractor, they probably don’t have anything that will work. Insubordination is a ‘toe the line or get fired’ thing, but mgmt has to be willing to follow through with the firing.

        Als0, the promotion is promised, not fulfilled. Again, that’s dependent on mgmt’s willingness to follow through.

        LW2: I think the contractor is fireable. Anyone is. Try your boss / whoever spoke to her before, let them know she is acting in opposition to their directions. If she’s still there in a week, go job hunt, and good luck.

    4. Pastor Petty LaBelle*

      That stood out to me too. OP you are being prepared for management. One of the things managers do is well, manage. Such as dealing with contractors who have been told they aren’t in charge and to stop acting like it. By not telling your manager, you are not giving her a chance to do her job. You are also missing out on a chance to learn what to do in these situations should you take the promotion and become a manager.

      Tell your boss. See how its handled. Then decide if you still want out.

    5. Bathyphysa Conifera*

      I am sincerely baffled as to why OP doesn’t want anyone to address things. OP, that is not a good instinct for you to have or to follow.

      1. Another One*

        I agree. OP, if you want to move up to management- that comes up having to manage people.

        Not just assigning tasks, but also addressing problematic behavior and dealing with people when they are unhappy with you for addressing their problematic behavior. This can be particularly difficult when you were previously their colleague because you are going from friend to boss, but that’s being the boss.

        If you don’t want to do that part, than maybe this promotion isn’t for you.

    6. Capybara*

      Because the Unholy Trinity are the types to retaliate against LW2. I’ve read enough AAM to see some, ahem, creative ways to retaliate.

        1. Decima Dewey*

          OP says they will be promoted once funding happens. To me, that’s a dangling lure to keep OP’s interest. Until the funding happens, there won’t be a promotion, but there will be more work. And a group of OP’s subordinates seem to be ready to make their work life more difficult.

          I’d be inclined to hope for the best, and begin a job search in the meantime.

    7. Dust Bunny*

      I’m going to hazard a guess that the OP doesn’t think their manager will act, or will act clumsily in a way that makes the situation worse. I have no way of knowing if this worry is founded, but it’s definitely an issue I’ve had at previous jobs.

      Twentysomething me would have avoided dealing with this and bailed. Older me would start searching just in case but also lay it out to my manager and give them the chance to handle it.

    8. HR Exec Popping In*

      My concern is OP may not realize that power struggles and conflict are very normal at work. Dealing with it head on is a good life skill that she would take this opportunity to develop. Raising the concerns to your manager is a good first step vs. just running away. Now there may be other reasons the OP wants to change companies but if this is the primary reason it would be good to at least attempt to rectify the situation first.

    9. linger*

      What stands out to me is that, whatever OP2 has been told about the prospect of a promotion, their manager has not done a sufficient job of explicitly handing over any authority to OP2 so that OP2 can act as a supervisor for the contractor and the gang of three newbies.
      Per OP2’s account, all four are acting as if there is a complete power vacuum that they are free to fill themselves.
      If they *have* already clearly been told to accept OP2 has authority to set scope of tasks, their current behaviour is a PIP-worthy level of insubordination.
      If they have *not* already been told, they need to be told *now* in no uncertain terms. (And in one sense, that’s easier, because it can be presented as an ultimatum from the manager, not as a response to a complaint by OP2.)
      This means OP2 *must* bring the problem to their manager.
      Whatever retaliation or loss of face OP2 fears from getting their manager involved, the current situation is untenable and cannot be left to fester.
      Contractor and newbies alike must be collectively and comprehensively disabused of the notion that they can ignore OP2.
      Manager also must explicitly warn the newbies *not to trust Contractor* about their scope of work. It has got beyond the point where Contractor can merely be privately told to “stay in their lane”; it needs to be publicly reiterated to those Contractor is poisoning.

      1. Jules the 3rd*

        Yes, the manager has to actively and effectively manage. We all know that is not a certainty.

        If they don’t, LW2 is totally correct in their assessment.

    10. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      I was curious about the exact same thing, Lee Plum. It sounds like wading further into the existing power struggle wouldn’t be enjoyable at all. But it might be worth it in the long run. My biggest question for the LW is whether she would want to stay at this company – at least for the foreseeable future – if this problem got handled properly. If the answer is no, it makes total sense to wash her hands of it and walk away. I wouldn’t be shocked if this was the LW’s biggest concern with the company, but not their only one. But if the answer is yes, she’d like to stick around, it would be worth going to management, telling them extremely clearly what’s been going on, and seeing how things get handled (or not) before making a decision that she (probably) can’t take back.

      I’m going to guess that this is a place where management overall isn’t that great. Otherwise, this nonsense wouldn’t have been left to fester for so long. Someone with some authority would know about all of this and would have taken more action. So, I’d also encourage the LW to consider whether she wants to be in management in this company. Especially if it’s her first management job, because it sounds like this place would be doing management on hard mode. Like, would they be giving the LW the authority to make decisions and backing her up on things?

    11. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      My biggest question for the LW is whether she would want to stay at this company – at least for the foreseeable future – if this problem got handled properly. If the answer is no, it makes total sense to wash her hands of it and walk away. I wouldn’t be shocked if this was the LW’s biggest concern with the company, but not their only one. But if the answer is yes, she’d like to stick around, it would be worth going to management, telling them extremely clearly what’s been going on, and seeing how things get handled (or not) before making a decision that she (probably) can’t take back.

      I’m going to guess that this is a place where management overall isn’t that great. Otherwise, this nonsense wouldn’t have been left to fester for so long. Someone with some authority would know about all of this and would have taken more action. So, I’d also encourage the LW to consider whether she wants to be in management in this company. Especially if it’s her first management job, because it sounds like this place would be doing management on hard mode. Like, would they be giving the LW the authority to make decisions and backing her up on things?

  6. John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt*

    LW 2 – If you coworker’s behaviors changed or if they left, would you stay? Do you want the promotion? If yes, then talk to your manager about what you are facing. Your co-workers are showing the type of behavior that would be fireable in my company. Many young new-to-workforce people do think they deserve higher raises or promotions. It’s unrealistic and it’s an easy thing for your manger to address. This isn’t a complicated problem for a manger to resolve. It might feel bigger because it feels personal.

    You’ll run across mean-spirited and childish people in your career. Advocating for yourself can go a long way. So I definitely encourage you to use this as practice for standing up for yourself. Even if it doesn’t fix everything, you’re looking for a new job anyway.

    If you really don’t want any of this, that is understandable too. Some situations aren’t worth fixing. You can always tell your boss “I found a job that fits more into my career goals, work culture, and lifestyle. I’ve truly appreciated all that you have done” or “I found a job that fits in with my school load and personal life. Thank you for working with me. I really appreciated it.”

    1. WellRed*

      I agree here. If OP is interested in management and in this role, she needs to stand up not turn and run. It’s OK to want to move on from this place, but do it because it’s time.

    2. HonorBox*

      If LW does choose to leave, saying something to management will show that they’re not just dipping out and leaving the problem for someone else. It follows the campsite rule – leave things better than you found them. Management would be much more likely to give a solid recommendation because LW brought this to their attention before leaving because it sets the business up with a better opportunity to succeed.

  7. Lee Plum*

    LW3:
    Have you considered saying no to your employees requests? Just because they negotiate for something doesn’t mean you have to give it to them.
    Before you go all extortion racket on them (“Nice job you got here. Be a shame if you wanted to work different hours.”), just say, “Unfortunately, we are not able to make the Saturday hours rotational, and we do need you to be in every Saturday as we discussed upfront.”
    Wait for them to push back on the note before you start asking if it makes sense for them to stay in the job. There is no way to ask them that without it sounding like a threat to fire them.

    1. KateM*

      I do feel like her negotating about Saturdays should get a surprised “whatt, surely you are joking right now, weren’t you hired explicitly for Saturdays??”.

      1. Another One*

        I, also, wouldn’t be shocked if this is someone getting advice from people who are only getting part of the story. Employee is complaining to friends about having to work every Saturday. The friends say that’s crazy- they shouldn’t be the only person working on Saturdays, not knowing Employee was hired specifically for this schedule.

        It doesn’t matter for the purposes as to how to handle it. But I always feel that’s how this goes.

        1. Ama*

          I also wonder if the initial change in schedule caused the employee to think it was no big deal to continue to ask for adjustments. When I was a manager I had a couple of times when a new employee misunderstood that a special circumstance around scheduling or PTO (for example advancing sick time if they got sick in their second week and didn’t have time accrued) was a standard process they could ask for whenever.

          OP should just clarify to the employee that at this point they can’t alter Saturday coverage requirements any further.

    2. LifeisaDream*

      Pushback, we hired with the explicit written policy that weekends are mandatory. Someone is always surprised when they see they’re scheduled for weekends because they’ve made other plans. Do you skip working Tuesdays because that’s the day you houseclean and do errands. Weekends are just another workday for millions of people. Otherwise healthcare, cleaning, maintaince and freshly made blueberry waffles would not exist.

      1. The OG Sleepless*

        I work in a sector that has a lot of weekend hours and this happens so often. I think people either don’t realize how much they’ll hate working weekends, or they think it won’t last forever. They say “oh, yeah, that’s no problem!” when they are hired, and a few months down the road it turns into “what, you meant every weekend forever?”

        1. Eldritch Office Worker*

          Yep. A lot of people say this thing is fine when they need a job – and even mean that! But once you get into the routine they realize it can be a little soul crushing long term and regret it.

    3. Radioactive Cyborg Llama*

      That’s pretty much what Alison said, except that her version made it clear that it’s a requirement for the job. It’s not “extortion” to say you’d fire someone who can’t do the job you hired them for.

      1. JB (not in Houston)*

        Yes, calling it extortion is a weird way to phrase it and makes the conversation seem unmerited and hostile. It’s not!

      2. Lee Plum*

        Let me lay out the difference explicitly:

        My suggestion:
        “no”

        What Alison said:
        “no, and are you sure you don’t wanna quit?”

        It’s a nuanced difference, which I get is difficult for some people to pick up on when all the softening language is added in. Believe me, when you are on the receiving end of “are you sure you don’t want to quit,” are any variant there of, you notice right away.

        1. JB (not in Houston)*

          It’s still not extortion! And I still don’t agree with your take on it, and not because I can’t pick up on nuance. If the employee says he’s fine with it, then there’s no worry about firing. If he says he’s not fine with it, then how is it any different than your suggestion? You’re suggestion is “This is the requirement, end of conversation [and we’ll still fire you if you don’t comply, but I’m not going to say it explicitly so you might be surprised if it happens].” Plus, Alison’s suggested wording opens a conversation and gives the employee a chance to talk about what’s going.

    4. Asloan*

      Sure, but you can also use this as a datapoint for the way you’ve structured this role and what you’re paying for it. It’s possible OP will find that the schedule is very undesirable for the money if it remains hard to hire / keep someone in this role. You might end up needing to break it into two part time roles, a weekend person and an evening person.

      1. AngryOctopus*

        OTOH, lots of people love a “working a weekend day” schedule because it’ll free up a weekday (although I am a little confused with LW saying they asked for Thursday off because they have to work Sat–I would have thought the employee had Sun/Mon off (for example) because they work a weekend day, not that they work 6 days a week–although maybe they wanted to swap the day?).

        1. Eldritch Office Worker*

          When I worked this kind of schedule I always split my days off like this. I usually took Sunday/Wednesday off. It meant I never worked more than three days in a row, and I had one rest/housework day and one real world/errands day when things weren’t busy. Also it meant I never had to worry about Monday holidays and rearranging my schedule or losing a day off.

        2. ClaireW*

          It probably depends on the type of job and if the employee is full time or not. For example when I was a student I worked 5pm-9pm Thurs/Fri and 9am-6pm Sat/Sun for years.

          1. Asloan*

            Yeah I had a similar schedule and it was fine – but I also worked a similar role that never let me have two days off together, and it stunk. I raised it and they gave me the shrug emoji. It turned out I could find a better job schedule that paid the same so I quit and I’m sure they were surprised and hurt that I was so selfish. Shrug.

        3. Chirpy*

          My current job involves working every other weekend, and I get a set weekday off. Which sounds fine until you realize that Memorial Day, Labor Day, Thanksgiving, and Christmas are ALL on the same schedule and it only switches about every 7 years…

          At a previous job I worked every weekend with Tues/Wed/Thurs off. Also sounds fine, until you realize nobody else has that schedule and you never get to see any of your friends and can’t do any fun activities/events because most things are scheduled for weekends.

          1. Asloan*

            Also if you never get two days off consecutively, that’s significantly worse for you, because every “off” day you still have to prep to go in tomorrow and you can’t ever stay out late – all your “late night” options are days you already worked all day, when you probably don’t even want to go out. Jobs structured this way will often have trouble keeping someone in the role long term unless they pay better than weekend jobs that give someone Sunday-Monday both off or whatever consecutive days make sense …

            1. Chirpy*

              Yup. The weeks where I only get that one weekday off are often physically brutal – one day isn’t enough recovery time to prevent overuse injuries. Which also means my weekends are a scramble of getting chores done, attempting to do something fun, and/ or just crashing out completely because I’m so tired/sore.

    5. LW3*

      So I ended up coaching the employee’s manager through a meeting with the employee laying out exactly this – the role was designed specifically for this coverage. We also began advertising the role which was a good this, since the employee put in her notice a week later. The employee (and everyone) already has Sundays, so the consistent Saturdays were the problem. We are hiring 2 roles due to a planned expansion so more coverage options. It’s just very annoying to be extremely transparent and still have this issue.

      1. Eldritch Office Worker*

        Yeah, it is. I hire for roles like this too. There’s constant pushback about Saturdays even though that is specifically what those people were hired for. I don’t know if it’s solvable, completely. You just need to hope you luck into people who actually want that schedule. But all my empathy, I know how frustrating it is.

        1. Sarah With an H*

          At a previous job I worked both Saturday and Sunday, which I was generally happy with because I liked having weekdays off to do stuff. The only downside was when there was an event on the weekend I wanted to do, or the sports team I was on had a tournament. But because that didn’t happen very often and I worked every Saturday otherwise, I never had an issue taking the day off when it did come up.
          Having that flexibility made a huge difference to me, even if it only amounted to 2 or 3 Saturdays a year. I wonder if having a little flexibility in the schedule (like 3 Saturdays a month, or 3 every other month or something) would make it more palatable. But it also probably depends on the specific job/place on how feasible that is.

          1. Typity*

            If it means somebody who previously didn’t work Saturdays now has to, that seems like a no-go.

    6. ecnaseener*

      Well, you don’t say it in an “extortion racket” tone lol. You say it matter-of-factly. It’s not extortion, it’s “we currently have an agreement about the timing of the labor you’re trading for money. We can’t make the change you’re asking for, so do you want to keep to the current agreement or do you want out?”

    7. Bathyphysa Conifera*

      It seems the employee is following the “Hey, it doesn’t hurt to ask” system. And honestly that doesn’t seem out of line given that the parameters of the job have been shiftable in the past. I don’t read an implied threat to quit in the question, just a question.

      It’s fine to respond to that question with a firm “We need a steady person on Saturdays, that’s not something we’ll change.”

      (And while I am often an advocate of “read the room, some times and things you should not just ask,” from the earlier schedule adjustments this seems like a mild query as to whether there is some give at this point in the coverage. Maybe 6 months from now another employee would like to start having Wednesdays free and offers to cover some Saturdays; now OP knows the existing Saturday coverage person would be open to this.)

    8. anonymous worker ant*

      Yeah, I strongly suspect this employee will not respond well to being told “you were hired for Saturdays, so we can’t be flexible about that.”

      They were hired for Saturdays, midnight shifts, and in-office work. Saturdays seem to have been the only part of that which was firm. And it sounds like the midnight shifts were changed for work needs, not even at the employee’s request – so they wouldn’t be allowed to work the hours they were hired for even if they wanted to! This is a case where the employee has experienced them being nothing but flexible, until suddenly they aren’t. Please don’t act surprised at the expectations you’ve built!

      (Is it legal for an employer to change a worker’s hours without warning or input, but not be willing to do the same in return? Yes, but it’s also perfectly reasonable that workers will be resentful as heck about it.)

    9. Dust Bunny*

      I had a job years ago where it was made abundantly clear during the hiring process that everyone worked two weekends a month (and occasionally a third, depending on the month). This was reiterated multiple times, verbally and in writing. It was also applied to everyone. We still had people who tried to skip out. My favorite was a woman who had already been giving us pushback on this, who finally called an hour after her Saturday shift was supposed to start, from a city four hours away, to let us know she couldn’t be in that day. We told her not to bother coming back.

    10. Typity*

      This seems a very sound course of action, though I fear this employee is already well down the road to completely unreasonable.

      “How about we force people who never agreed to work on Saturdays to do it anyway, because I don’t wanna” isn’t really a sign of someone who is in it for the long haul.

    11. LL*

      Right. The employee knew what the hours were when they started the job, there’s no reason to change them.

  8. Two-Faced Big-Haired Food Critic*

    LW1: “If the employee was in Iran when the war broke out, she’d give him the full 10.” That’s what she says now. If he had been in Iran, she would now be saying, “Who goes to Iran when they know war is imminent? He gets 5.”

    Also, has she expressed any concern for employee/his family? How soon did he come back to work after returning home, and did Boss at least say, “Glad you’re okay”? This is giving Graduation Boss vibes.

    1. Old Cowboy Boots*

      All of this.

      It’s wild that from the safety of her US home and job, the boss cannot find an ounce of empathy and self-awareness in herself to realize that the employee was at the whim of a mercurial commander-in-chief playing war games to feel tough. She should be glad they made back unharmed, albeit I’m sure very shaken. To be rules-lawyering over something that costs her nothing says a lot about her character.

      Horrifying.

      1. Asloan*

        Based on the fact that the employee gets more than six weeks of leave I’m going to speculate the OP is not in the US. (We get 10 days total of annual vacation leave in at least my job, lol). Nobody I know young enough to have a pregnant wife gets six weeks and then some.

        1. sb51*

          There are a good number of US jobs where you might not get that much but can save up vacation from year to year — many of my junior colleagues with family abroad tend to visit every other year and use vacation from both years all at once.

          (And, what St. Florida said below about only connecting through Dubai; most of my colleagues going to India tended to connect through there; I’ve heard lots of them chatting about rerouting future trips to connect somewhere else.)

        3. But Of Course*

          I work in the US and we start with four weeks. By now I have actual months of accrued vacation because we have no cap and full rollover. Just because the bar for paid time off in the US is in hell doesn’t mean it’s not possible to have six weeks or more of vacation. Also, it doesn’t matter. The employee had vacation time, the employee had a disaster, the company has a policy for mitigating disasters, the boss is not willing to follow the policy.

        4. Old Cowboy Boots*

          Okay, fair. Still, it cost big boss nothing to approve the 10 days, so it’s pretty mean-spirited to argue over it, especially considering that the employee seems to have made every effort to leave as best they could (daily trips to the airport?!).

        5. Irish Teacher.*

          It sounds like the boss is a long way from the war wherever she is though. In fact, if she is in a country not involved in the war, then she is even safer, as she wouldn’t even have to worry about retaliation or knowing somebody in the army. And honestly, if they are not in the US or the Middle East, then the “we all knew war was coming” is even more ridiculous, because I’m assuming the US would be following a war they are involved in more closely than those outside the countries involved (though we are all following it because it’s serious).

          Not to argue with you, since I know you’re not defending the boss. Just to stress that no matter where she lives, she’s clad in bananapants.

        6. Heinous Eli*

          I mean, it depends. I’m in the US and thanks to both my workplace’s policies (generous by American standards) and my personal situation/choices, as of right now, I could easily take two whole paid months off with what I’ve got accrued.

      2. Another One*

        Honestly, it’s better than the place I went which was- was there anyone in their group impacted by October 7th in Israel? Was Boss flexible about letting people use the 10 days in that situation?

        Because Israel is a country is always on the edge of war.

        I have friends whose colleagues took weeks to get out of Israel after.

    2. Saint Florida of the Cinnamon Rolls*

      It’s also not clear to me from the letter that the employee was actually going to the Middle East as their destination versus connecting through Dubai, which would make the argument that “they should have known” particularly ridiculous. And even if they were going to the region, I doubt the boss would say the same if we were talking about a trip to Vienna being disrupted by the war in Ukraine (a shorter distance than Tehran to Dubai).

      1. mango chiffon*

        I assumed route through Dubai as well. I have flown through Dubai many times to get to India from the US. There are a lot of flights going to India that stop over in Dubai or Abu Dhabi. Can’t imagine the stress of trying to get home with that happening. I’m already for my parents coming back from India (through Europe) because of everything going on and the oil price situation.

        1. HonorBox*

          A friend got back from India four days before the war broke out. His connection was through Abu Dhabi. His niece was returning home a few days later and her return flights were impacted in a similar way to the ones in the letter.

        2. Lily Rowan*

          A friend of mine had to fly home to the US the other way around from Bangladesh after the war started, vs. transferring in Dubai.

      2. Pastor Petty LaBelle*

        yeah its tough to guess that an outbreak of war in Iran would affect flights elsewhere. And thats even if there had been advance warning which there really wasn’t.

        If I were the boss I would be doing everything in my power to make sure my employee was safe, then when home had time to recover, if at all possible. The very least a boss can do is figure out how not to ding the person for things so far beyond their control.

    3. HR Exec Popping In*

      We had employees stuck overseas because of the UNEXPECTED war. As a company we worked to help them find a way back to the states – air travel was a horrible mess with all the closed airspace and high demand for rebooking. It is 100% unreasonable to force this employee to give up a company benefit for something that was completely out of their control. Follow the guidance provided by the policy and give the employee the full amount of time off. They were not enjoying a nice extended break or trying to game the system!

      1. I Have RBF*

        Yeah, even though I expect dumb stuff from the current administration, Trump ran on an anti-war, America first platform. So the Iran mess was a surprise, not only to me but members of Congress.

    4. iglwif*

      Seriously. This person just straight-up wants to punish LW1’s employee for … not being a nice white north american guy? having family overseas? daring to take vacation time at all? There are possibilities that are extremely racist / xenophobic and there are possibilities that are just absolute doorknob behaviour, but there is no explanation wherein this person means well or is behaving reasonably.

    5. Chauncy Gardener*

      OMFG. Your boss is so beyond entry level a**hattery it’s not even funny.
      I really REALLY hope this gets her fired.

  9. WS*

    LW 2: “She often acts as if she is in charge, something management has told me she has been asked not to do.”

    Shutting this down *is* a leadership task. It’s something that happens in a lot of workplaces, even if the dynamics are not always this clear. Talk to your manager about the contractor and the response of the other staff rather than simply removing yourself.

    1. Not Australian*

      I think ‘asked’ here is maybe the problem: she should have been *told* not to do it, with potential consequences attached.

        1. Radioactive Cyborg Llama*

          Firing is not necessarily the only consequence available. They might be able to reduce hours, withhold bonuses, make her work from another location or a different floor. And I’d want to read the contract before deciding she is unfireable because IAAL.

          1. Asloan*

            Or report directly to the least-open-to-this-BS supervisor rather than OP, or something that would make the role more desirable to OP.

          2. Cat Lady in the Mountains*

            Yeah and especially with contractors often a really easy solution is that the contractor only works with their direct manager, and all collaborative work happens between the manager and full-time staff – they are siloed off from the team. I wouldn’t go there immediately as a manager – first I’d have one more very stern conversation with the contractor – but you definitely don’t have to just live with the situation for the full length of the contract.

          3. Someone Else's Boss*

            Also, a contractor is expected to meet their end of the contract. Doing whatever they want when they’ve been instructed not to is not part of the deal.

            1. Asloan*

              To be fair I’ve known plenty of contractors with highly specialized knowledge that were essentially treated like they were doing us a favor to work for us. They were self employed so outside of the usual power structure, and if they didn’t like how they were treated they’d be happy to replace us with other clients. It just depends on the field. (And now I’m picturing the famous “consulting detectives” of so many procedurals who solves every case and runs circles around the actual cops lol).

              1. JustaTech*

                At OldJob we had a contractor who was a former employee who acted exactly like that, because he knew for a fact he was the only person who knew how to run a large, expensive and complicated instrument.

                He came in on his own schedule, and decided that rules didn’t apply to him. Including basic lab health and safety.
                After one of his stints I was doing a safety inspection and found a banana in the lab.
                A BANANA.

                2. I went to school with only 1 Jennifer*

                  Something is very wrong, but it’s not obvious to me what it is. Pls help?

        2. Velawciraptor*

          I don’t know that this is true. As a contractor, she has a contract. She sounds like she’s walking up to the line of breach, if not crossing it. Contracts can be terminated and she sounds like she’s begging for it.

          1. linger*

            Thing is, she may not much care if this contract is terminated, if there are other clients looking for the same specialist skills.
            I also note the ambiguity of the contractor’s assumed title “office manager”.
            In some workplaces (and OP2’s could be one such) this actually translates as “has responsibility for office equipment — and zero authority over office workers”.
            Contractor is trading on the cluelessness of the newbies and on the ambiguity of the word “manager” to inflate their own importance.

    2. Pastor Petty LaBelle*

      I’m flabbergasted that a contractor thinks they are office manager. They aren’t even an employee. Their paychecks say very different things.

      I am quite sure this person isn’t as unfireable as believed. Because contracts always have an out for the company to get rid of an unsuitable person.

  10. franca my dear*

    I’m happy the pregnant wife, with a toddler, was able to get back home safely after such a massive trip. That sounds like a (nightmare) letter on its own, without the crappy boss and war.

    Nothing to do with the question, and probably not a popular opinion, but who makes their wife travel that far back and forth when she’s pregnant, with a toddler in tow?

    1. Jill Swinburne*

      People who haven’t seen their family in a long time and don’t want them to be strangers to their child or miss out on their life events. It is extremely hard to time those visits perfectly (she might not even have been pregnant when they booked it).

      1. Jill Swinburne*

        Moreover, why would one assume that they ‘make’ their pregnant wife do anything?

        1. KateM*

          How do we know it was not the pregnant wife who made their husband and toddler travel because she wanted to show her child to her family, right? :)

          1. AnonAnon Sir!*

            Not to mention, she might not even be heavily pregnant. They might have booked the holiday pre-pregnancy and she might be only two trimesters or less along. Unless we’re suggesting forcibly quarantining any woman who’s received a positive pregnancy test now?

            1. Emmy Noether*

              Flying in the third trimester can be tricky anyway because a lot of airlines will make you get a doctor’s note and then not accept you at all towards the end. (Come to think of it, that might be an added stressor in this situation if they were approaching that deadline).

              If they were flying and colleagues were aware of the pregnancy, chances are 2nd trimester. Which is the easiest for most women. I traveled during my pregnancies and it was fine (not that far, but still). Also, travelling pregnant with a toddler and a second adult is in many ways easier than travelling with a toddler and an infant (even with a second adult). Just saying – this may have been planned that way on purpose by both parents.

          2. Polaris*

            I absolutely blame the whole “Ani you’re breaking my heart” scene in Revenge of the Sith.

            So not how that would’ve gone down. More “Ani, what in the actual F-CK is your issue, get your whiny b!tch self back on Tatooine and get some therapy….”

            Making a pregnant woman do something. Hah!

        2. Bathyphysa Conifera*

          ^This! Having been a pregnant wife.

          It’s usually easier to travel with one small child than two. Her family might well live near his family, or even be the “family” they are visiting. She might care about her husband and his family and want to nurture their bond, and her child having a relationship with them.

      2. KateM*

        And earlier, the toddler was a baby. Who makes their wife travel with a baby?
        And even earlier, his wife was pregnant. Who makes their pregnant wife travel?
        But later, there will be a toddler and a baby. Who makes their wife travel with a baby and a toddler?
        And even later…

      3. WS*

        Yeah, my sister-in-law is from the UK and still has family there. She travels back at least once a year with my brother and their young child (who has been travelling back and forth most of her life and is very chill about it). Their flight was also affected as it would have gone via Dubai, but they were fortunately able to rebook just a few days later and didn’t end up with the epic journey that LW1’s poor co-worker and family had.

      4. The Rural Juror*

        Agreed. And it will become harder to travel with a toddler AND a newborn.

        I have a coworker from Iran and one from Lebanon. Both have told me about difficulties finding a safe time to travel home. In some timeframes, it’s been easier to meet their family in a neutral country they can all travel to, though elderly relatives can’t always travel. They’ve sometimes gone a very long time not being able to go home.

        I’ve been trying to check on them lately without asking them to share more than they want to or feel obligated to talk at all. Just want them to know I care about them and their families.

    2. D*

      There is zero indication the employee “made” his wife do anything, nor is it relevant to this question.

    4. Leenie*

      I think it might not be a popular opinion because you’ve decided this woman, who none of us know anything about, was *made* to travel, and has no agency.

    5. Katia Joy*

      It’s not our business or relevant to the letter but a trip of that scope is the kind of thing may people would plan 3-6 months out which would very likely be before she knew she was pregnant. It’s also kinda problematic to assume she was made to do it, rather than as someone who knows what pregnancy is like made an informed decision herself

    6. HojiBerry*

      Yeah, it is unpopular to imply that obviously pregnant women don’t want to travel and shouldn’t travel. Yikes.

    8. LifeisaDream*

      Our school had some students caught mid-transit when the war began and were delayed for weeks before returning home. I don’t think any of them were docked for “unexplained absence” when caught in a war zone. The boss needs to keep up with current events.

    9. AngryOctopus*

      People travel while pregnant all the time. They do it with no, one, two, or even more other children. This employee planned *with his wife* to go see family. It’s not up to you to question that decision.

    10. iglwif*

      “Pregnant” doesn’t necessarily mean “about to give birth at any moment” — in fact, it probably doesn’t mean that, because flying in your third trimester is generally discouraged, especially a flight as long as flights from north america to the middle east tend to be.

      And having myself travelled (a) while pregnant, (b) with an infant, and (c) with a toddler, I can promise that when the choices are “travel now, while pregnant, with a toddler” vs “travel in 6 months, not pregnant but with a toddler AND a nursing infant”, I’m picking “travel while pregnant” every time.

    11. Chirpy*

      Once when I was in Europe I overheard an obnoxious Texan asking a German family how they could *possibly* travel with an infant. The Germans were like “…we have a full year of maternity leave, it’s the perfect time to travel?”

      1. Emmy Noether*

        To be fair, attitudes about traveling with infants/kids vary widely in Germany as well. Some will just put their infant in a carrier and they’re off hiking mountains. Others can’t imagine going anywhere they can’t go in their own car.

        Using the parental leave to travel more than 2-3 weeks is fairly unusual. Most families take it mostly consecutively, not concurrently, so one parent is working.

        1. Chirpy*

          This was during a boat tour in a major city, so while they probably took a plane to get there, it wasn’t likely to be a particularly strenuous trip. I got the impression they were traveling for less than a month, and were probably like “baby is 6 months old, may as well get out for a bit before dad has to go back to work”.

      2. Amateur Linguist*

        The Germans sound equally obnoxious TBH. Presumably someone isn’t travelling for the entire length of the maternity period.

        1. Chirpy*

          No, the Germans were extremely gracious about answering the Texan’s questions. She just couldn’t believe people were traveling internationally with a baby and kept pestering them about it for like half an hour. They just kind of shrugged, because why not take a trip when you already have some time off? It didn’t sound like they were traveling for the whole time, more like they had a year in which they *could* travel because they were off from work already.

          The tour guide clearly was annoyed with the Texans and kept bringing up things that Europe does much better than the USA, though.

    12. LL*

      why do you think the employee “made” the wife do it? Maybe she’s also from that country and wanted to visit? or even if she isn’t, she probably considers his family her family too and wanted to see them. And pregnancy lasts 9 months, it’s not weird to take long trips earlier in the pregnancy.

  11. Marvel*

    LW2, do you by any chance have childhood trauma/abuse in your history?

    I ask because, for those of us who do, there can be a pattern where we burn things to the ground at the first sign of problems without ever giving anyone a chance to fix it. Childhood abuse codes into your psyche that you are on your own, no one will protect or help you (because your caregiver(s), the people who are most supposed to, didn’t), and your only recourse is to run. This is, at the time, accurate information on how to survive… the problem is that it becomes your blueprint for dealing with everything as an adult, too, even when the circumstances are very different.

    This might be totally off-base and not applicable to you at all; I obviously don’t know. But something about your letter resonated with me and I felt like I should at least throw out the possibility in case it gives you any insight.

    But please do give your boss a chance to fix it before you decide it’s unsalvageable.

    1. Asloan*

      Oh interesting, I recognized my strongly avoidant instincts in OP. Avoidance is typically a workplace strategy when you don’t think things are likely to change or when you think the amount of effort required to make the change is unreasonable. People who lean on it in their workplace may come to overdepend on it as their first / best option when other options are available. If OP wants to be a manager someday (even if they ultimately decide they don’t want this role) it will behoove them to start reflecting on their instincts and tendencies now.

    2. Dawn, higher ed*

      Yeah, this seems like an instinctual response, and I get it. Options that could develop it other than child abuse include child neglect, bullying from peers, experiences of racism, and pretty much any situation that shows you that you’re not going to be heard, believed, and supported by authorities and systems.

    3. Bathyphysa Conifera*

      OP, the point in your letter where you said you didn’t want to say anything or have your manager try to address what’s happening was a “Wait, what?” record scratch for a lot of readers. It’s worth digging into why you have that unusual response–as gotten into upthread, if you want to move into management, it’s not a good instinct to give in to.

      Is your brain trying to recreate a familiar pattern here?

    4. Nola*

      Yeah, I was raised in a dysfunctional family and learned at a very early age to solve my own problems. When I first started working I repeated those patterns. And, usually, I was rewarded for it! I was a go getter, a problem solver, I took initiative!

      But if I encountered a problem I couldn’t solve – either due to not having the right tools, or the authority, or facing a stronger personality – I just assumed there was nothing that could be done by anybody and I gave up. It genuinely never occurred to me I could ask my boss or anyone else for help.

      Now I realize stuff like this is common. The contractor is overstepping and the new employees are learning bad office norms. Instead of throwing up your hands and just deciding to give up – talk to your boss. A good boss – and I don’t know if OP’s boss is good or not – should be able to help with this.

  12. hedgewitch*

    LW5: Another thought I have on you situation: if you don’t challenge the time sheet editing, it could look like YOU tried to “steal” from your employer by clocking in too early/clocking out too late and you manager corrected that. Even if you didn’t care about the money, you should challenge the edits to CYA in that respect

    1. Lime green Pacer*

      LW5 could also go forward as if assuming there is a bug in the app. “I entered X hours for Day 1 and Y hours for Day 2, but the hours I was paid for are different.We need to fix that! Are other workers are experiencing similar glitches?”

      1. Ama*

        Possible tech issue is my go to for initial queries like this even when I am pretty sure it’s human error or intentional wrongdoing. And a few times it actually *has* turned out to be a tech problem!

      2. Madame Desmortes*

        I like that last sentence — because it’s quite possible other workers are. No reason in your letter that the cheating lying manager isn’t stealing from others by editing their timesheets too.

    2. Productivity Pigeon*

      A VERY good point!

      LW, you should also take screenshots as soon as you log your hours and time-stamp them.
      If you can get more proof you’re actually work those hours, you should try and do that, so you avoid what hedgewitch says.

      1. Asloan*

        OP definitely needs their own log, perhaps on a spreadsheet on their own non-work computer, of the hours they believe they should be paid for.

  13. Commentator*

    Is boss #1 just sitting at home twirling her evil mustache?? I’m as flabbergasted as OP that she has chosen the path of evil when the path of being a decent human being was right in front of her and causes her no personal hardship. Why are people like this :’(

    If the employee doesn’t get the days, I would make sure everyone knew why (assuming it wouldn’t cause any hardship for the employee). But I’m also the kind of person that wants to see the whole place burn down when injustices like this happen, so take that with a grain of salt.

    1. littlehope*

      A friend from my synagogue is from Bahrain, and trying to sort out moving here permanently. In the meantime, she’s travelling back and forth a lot with various complicated visa situations. When the war broke out, she was stuck here and had to overstay her visa. The UK government, not known for being sensible and understanding towards potential immigrants with visa issues, understood that there was nothing she could have done about this and gave her no trouble about it.
      Your boss is less reasonable than the UK government.

      1. Old Cowboy Boots*

        And that is saying a lot, given recent decisions about foreign students!!!!

      2. iglwif*

        Your boss is less reasonable than the UK government.

        This is truly one of the worst things one can say about a boss.

    2. Irish Teacher.*

      Yes, I’m stunned. Who on earth thinks, “an employee was nearly trapped in a warzone, endured a 55 hour journey home and it sounds like has family still in the warzone who he is no doubt extremely worried about. I know, I’ll just give him additional hassle about his time.”

    3. Bathyphysa Conifera*

      People hate to be wrong, and have an instinct to double down and hope that bluster will cause the facts to realign and make them right.

  14. English Rose*

    #2 – on the promotion opportunity alone, just think of how many letters we read here from people who’ve been asked to take on additional duties on the promise of a promotion which then just… doesn’t happen, or keeps getting put off.
    The advice about talking to your manager about this specific situation is sound, but don’t let feelings of guilt about a prospective promotion derail a job search if you decide that’s the way you want to go.

  15. Armchair Lawyer No. 327*

    LW5: Document everything. In detail. Now. What your employer is doing is illegal. If you do report it, you risk retaliation and will want a paper trail to take to court. If you don’t report it, you risk being thrown under the bus if someone else catches on… And will want a paper trail to take to court.

  16. bamcheeks*

    I feel like there’s a LOT of information missing in LW2, and I don’t think I totally understand what’s going on. Are you definitely leaving in eight weeks when you’ve finished your degree, or is that when you’re going to start looking for a new job? Do your managers know that you’re leaving then? If so, why are they trying to secure funding to promote you for a matter of 4-6 weeks? If not, then they’re going to be disappointed either way, but that’s not something to worry about. What’s the timeline on “getting funding” to promote you?

    The easiest read is that this is a job you’re not particularly committed to and you know you’ll definitely be leaving in eight weeks, and you’re just kind of over the nonsense, in which case, there is no need to do anything — just let Ms Contractor and the New Employees do their thing, nod and smile when your managers talk about you taking on more responsibility, finish up your work, and leave.

    But I think the fact that you perceive a problem here is because you’re letting a lot of other people decide things for you. I think you are feeling squashed between your supervisors wanting to promote you (or at least wanting you to take on more duties, without necessarily paying you) and your co-workers pushing back on that, and the fact that seems like an impossible dilemma is because you don’t have any clear goals or wants of your own.

    Given that you’re leaving, do you want new responsibilities and a promotion, or are you just going along with it because your supervisors think it’s a good idea? If you actually want it, then yes, you do need to address Ms Contractor and New Employees not letting you have your authority, by demonstrating your authority, and if you don’t know how to do that, then talking to your supervisors about how to do it is a good way forward. If you don’t want the hassle, it’s OK to tell your supervisors that you don’t think you’re ready to step up to a new role and you don’t want to.

    And just to be clear, it’s absolutely OK if your main feeling is that you’re over it, you just want to get to the end of May, get your degree and leave! But I do think it’s worth identifying the pattern and actually making a decision about what you want, because this kind of stuff is inevitably going to come up again in your career and getting used to identifying what you want, not just going along with what other people want for you, is a key skill.

    1. Marcela*

      I don’t get the impression that the managers know anything of LW’s plan to leave. It also didn’t sound the degree would cause LW to want to leave if the other employees weren’t acting badly.

      1. bamcheeks*

        What’s the significance of the eight weeks / last two months then? I was reading it as “that’s when I’m leaving anyway [because I’ll have finished my degree], but now I want to leave earlier”, but maybe it’s, “I have to stay at least that long [until I have finished my degree], but I don’t want to stay longer”?

        1. Myrin*

          I was blindsided by “the next two months” as well, especially since they’re only brought up towards the very end of the letter and up to that point, it sounded like the OP had actually planned to stay with this company longer-term.

          1. Another Kristin*

            That might be the standard notice period where the LW lives, or the notice period required by their employment contract

            1. bamcheeks*

              It might be, but that doesn’t make me less confused about what LW’s primary concern is. Is it that her managers will be disappointed she’s leaving and she wants to know how to make that less awkward, or that she still doesn’t know whether or not to report the co-workers being difficult even though she’s made up her mind to leave?

        2. Bathyphysa Conifera*

          And is LW doing that “I will leave in the near future for something much better, so I don’t want to take steps to improve my situation here, because that would prove to me I planned to stay” thing? That can repeat on loops for a full decade of not moving on to the actual new plan?

    2. mind the (career) gap*

      Unrelated: Dibs on “Ms Contractor and the New Employees” as my AAM cover band name.

  17. Grith*

    LW2: I feel like the timing/likelihood of the promotion is incredibly important here.

    If it is genuinely imminent (within the next month or two) then that’s both a nice incentive to stick around, and poses a likely solution to any unclear power dynamics. The person (you) recently promoted to “notably more senior role” will be the boss, that should be obvious. And it will be well within your responsibilities to be realistic with the new hires about how they’re still far too junior for promotions, and with the contractor about how she doesn’t have management/decision making responsibilities. It will no longer be some vague *power struggle* – you will be the one with the power, end of story.

    Of course, if the promotion is more nebulous “at some point we’d like to do this”, then that also both minimises your incentive to stay, and makes you leaving seem far more justifiable from your supervisors perspective. In either case, the first step is to have a serious conversation with your bosses about the timespan and what needs to be done in order to secure funding for the promotion.

    1. bamcheeks*

      a nice incentive to stick around

      Is it, though? I’m not clear on whether LW is allergic to a power struggle without clear authority, or whether she’s allergic to conflict in general. Both of these are completely legitimate and OK positions! But I would work on the assumption that getting the promotion isn’t necessarily going to make the power struggle disappear, and that there will be conflict and a need to exercise that greater authority, which some people hate doing, and I think LW should think about whether she wants the promotion if it comes with dealing with Ms Contractor and the New Employees, or whether that’s not her vibe at all and she should decline. Maaaaybe if she gets moved into the new position the conflict and pushback will just vanish and her authority will be natural, but I wouldn’t want to bank on it and I certainly wouldn’t assume that taking a promotion will be all upside and no conflict. That’s what the money is for!

      1. Grith*

        I don’t disagree, but the problem is that I don’t get the impression LW2 *wants* to leave – or else, why write the letter and not just do the obvious thing of keeping your head down and then going? And it’s also equally reasonable that part of the reason the LW hasn’t already exercised their authority over the others is that they don’t have actually have any currently.

        The point of my framing is that the promised promotion can be the solution to these problems, if it is real and if they choose to use it as such. Obviously if LW imagines they are going to be put into a position of authority and are then going to fail to use any of that authority, the argument falls flat. Anyone can be a bad manager!

        But I don’t think it’s unreasonable to point out that the solution to a lot of power struggles is “a strong manager”, and LW seems to be being primed to take exactly that role.

        1. ecnaseener*

          Oh, I do get the impression LW wants to leave. As far as I can tell, the question in the letter is not “should I leave” or “is there a way for me to stay,” rather “given that I’m leaving, should I tell my boss the reason / how should I handle things until I leave?”

          And fwiw, I don’t think it’s clear whether LW’s promotion comes with any management authority vs just a general seniority.

          1. bamcheeks*

            She does say, “leadership tasks”, and the whole conflict seems to be about who is in charge and who has the right to assign work to the others, so whilst it may not include direct line management, it certainly seems to include some kind of authority over the others?

            The only way I can really make sense of this is that LW is being very conflict-avoidant, and her immediate reaction to seeing any sign of conflict with her co-workers is to leave the job, but that brings her into conflict with her managers, and so she feels paralysed. I don’t think there is anything wrong with avoiding conflict, but I do think it’s a very bad idea to take on a management or leadership role if you hate conflict that much.

            1. ecnaseener*

              Leadership tasks without management authority, yes, I think that’s the case. Which doesn’t feel like a good fit for this LW or a solution to their problem of feeling unable/unwilling to assert the nebulous authority they do have.

      2. Asloan*

        It’s *always* hard to become the manager or former peers, even in the best situation – it sounds like OP is aware already that these are not the best of situations. It’s not uncommon for managers to have less authority than they’d like (I know my boss always warns me she doesn’t even know what I make, HR handles all that etc, which is not ideal if I’m trying to negotiate raises). OP should probably not take the promotion if she’s not going to get the *real* support of the higher-ups, like if nobody can touch this contractor who is delightedly starting trouble because she’s so necessary.

  18. Numbersmouse*

    LW1 – as someone who lives in the Middle East, I just gotta say I’d been hearing some variation on “apparently the US is bombing Iran tonight” for over a month before the war actually broke out. So “we all knew” is complete BS.

  19. Ganymede II*

    LW2, in addition to the other probing question for Alison or other commenters, I’d like to think about this: “Because of her role/contract, she is essentially unfireable for the next two years. ”

    No one is truly unfireable for 2 years.

    If she is perceived to have unique knowledge, that’s usually a laziness shortcut- no one is truly irreplaceable. If she is perceived to have an ironclad contract – those typically have a termination clause if the contractor is not doing their job or acting outside the scope of their duty (for instance, acting like they are management when they were specifically told not to).

    I made the mistake in my 20s of assuming some people were rocks, unmoveable, unfightable. That was never true.

    If you truly don’t want to continue this job, it is absolutely fine for you to decide you want to move on. But for your sake, I recommend to not make this person’s peculiarity be the thing that decides your destiny for you. This is for YOU to decide for yourself.

    1. HR Exec Popping In*

      I fully agree. Absolutely no one is unfireable. From the LW’s perspective they may assume that they are critical to retain for continuity or SME but everyone is replaceable. Even CEOs and founders are let go suddenly at times.

  20. SamuelSays*

    #5: you are not only owed that money but also $$ penalties on top of that–the company will be fined in addition and also be investigated for other irregularities (other ppl may be getting same treatment). Your local gov employment office will have forms to fill out, send copies of your records and your pay stubs and file a complaint. They will open an investigation. It is also illegal for them to retaliate and most employment lawyers work on contingency (you don’t pay up front). You EARNED that money and deserve to be paid. Don’t sit on it.

    1. AngryOctopus*

      This. They owe you that money. And they know they do–otherwise when you mentioned the discrepancy, rather than having the alterning stop from that point, your manager would have said “Oh, I altered it because X/Y reasons/breaktime/whatever”. Which of course is something they should have brought up with you the first time it happened, if there was an actual reason. File the complaint and get your money!!

      1. I DK*

        The company may not realize that this was happening, but it’s not like it was a mistake, an accounting error or a glitch (To be clear, even if it were, they would still owe you this money!) This was someone deliberately altering your timesheet. She might as well have been taking the dollar bills from your pocket. You need to let HR/payroll know this was happening. If your boss gets fired, then SHE SHOULDN’T HAVE BEEN STEALING from her employees.

  21. I like big tubs and I cannot lie*

    Not only is LW5 owed this money, but this has potentially damning consequences for their taxes, Social Security deductions, etc (assuming they’re in the US). This is SUCH a huge deal, it can’t be ignored.

  22. I like big tubs and I cannot lie*

    Letter 1 was published already within the last 2 weeks, right? I’m not imagining that?

    1. Lady Lessa*

      It was originally in a Friday open thread, and Allison requested that the letter be submitted to her. Some commenters wanted some rule changes, so that the boss could be in contention for worst boss of the year. (Only letters to Allison are in the running, not Friday’s Open )

      This way no broken rules, and we have a contender.

    3. o_gal*

      It was in a reply in a discussion recently, and the OP was asked to send it in officially so it could be published and discussed.

      1. I like big tubs and I cannot lie*

        Ah okay! I was beginning to think I was imagining things, lol. Thank you!

    4. Hlao-roo*

      It was the first comment on the “open thread – March 27, 2026” post (under commenting name Worst Boss Entry?).

  23. Anne*

    OP #5, please report it! This happened to my co-worker with an old manager at the hospital we worked at. She reported her payroll discrepancies and HR/big boss dealt with it FAST because it is a really big deal. Our manager was adjusting her time just by about an hour or so to avoid paying overtime, but it’s a huge deal regardless of the amount of time.

  24. TM*

    #2: People don’t leave bad jobs, they leave bad managers. How many times do we say this? Have you ever considered this perspective from the manager/HR view? We can’t fix problems we don’t know exist. If nobody tells the mgr that the contractor is being an ass, they can’t resolve it. By all means, pick your battles but just consider you can’t resent them for not fixing a problem they don’t know about (or in this case, a problem they think is already resolved). Good luck!

  25. Roo*

    I am almost speechless at the callous, cruel attitude of the boss in LW#1. Quite apart from the traumatic ordeal experience by the employee and his young family, they have the additional despair of having left their friends and family in that unsettled and volatile environment – and with what must be highly conflicted emotions in having gone through that ordeal in order to return to the very nation whose “boss” is currently threatening to annihilate their civilisation back to the Stone Age in the most offensive terms.

    I have nothing but compassion for that employee. It is heartening to read that his manager, LW#1, is so rightly disgusted by this boss that they have reached out here for advice and support. I am glad that there are people who still care about these things, in what is a very disconcerting time with no seeming stops or measures to the chilling rhetoric being ranted from the top. I hope your employee and his family will be OK, LW#1.

    Best wishes to you all. x

    1. 2 Cents*

      TBF, LW didn’t say the employee was in that part of the world, just that their travel was affected. I follow a blog written by someone who lives in France but had been traveling to Australia at the time, and her travel was affected, so this person could’ve been simply trying to cross that airspace. Hopefully.

      1. HR Exec Popping In*

        Agreed. The middle east is very busy airspace, especially with layovers in Dubai, when going to Asia.

      2. Roo*

        Yes, you’re right. I very much hope that too. Even so, though, it still may point towards the employee’s family being less-able to travel easily or with fewer restrictions than us, especially as the situation deteriorates further (which, despite the latest “ceasefire” announcements, I suspect it inevitably will). Quite how a senior manager thinks it’s appropriate to penalize an employee for “not having foreseen this” is still beyond me though. She (git-wizard manager) may even suspect that her employees remain fools to this day for not enthusiastically downing the POTUS-recommended dose of household bleach to stave-off Covid during the pandemic.

        I still send best wishes to all in the US who are troubled by what’s currently going on. x

  26. Raida*

    5. My manager is changing my timesheets

    Report report report!

    If your manager retaliates AFTER THEY OPENED UP THE BUSINESS TO LEGAL RISKS, then the manager is likely to get the boot for repeatedly creating risks for the business.

    You are owed money, you are going to CONTINUE to be stolen from unless you do something because they’ll keep changing the timesheets, the costs of living are high, and you are in a stressful industry – there is no short or medium or long term benefits in failing to report illegal behaviour of your manager.

    Hell, maybe there’s an employee Code of Conduct that dictates you are required to report illegal behaviour – so not doing it could harm others and get you fired/written up for failing to act.
    How’s *that* sound for consequences mate?

  27. BellStell*

    OP4 – keep screenshots of the times you submitted from the device along side your own spreadsheet – then report along with your payslips and show differences.

  28. BJ’s on Alvarado*

    I think #2’s instincts to want to leave are right. This place sounds like a complete mess

  29. Eldritch Office Worker*

    I spent 12 hours yesterday highly activated watching the news and being in community with people who were genuinely terrified, and today have to go to work and be a calm and level headed HR person for people who did the same. So maybe today is not the day for me to extend grace to the boss in LW1. But I have a lot of choice words that would probably get caught in the posting filter.

    Let’s agree this is a special case, and give him the five days the boss suggested. For a total of 15.

  30. Warrior needs food, badly*

    #5 is so blatantly wrong. At least you got the edits to stop, but it sounds like they also need to give you back pay for any overtime you worked while the mgr was changing them

  31. TiredBureaucrat*

    #4 – as a fellow bureaucrat, I feel you. Please keep your chin up and, when searching, follow Allison’s advice. (And how crazy is it that people are leaving government work for something more stable??)

    1. HR Exec Popping In*

      As someone who has interviewed many people leaving the federal government no explanation is generally needed. Everyone knows what is going on – the amount of uncertainty, change, confusion, etc., etc., etc. Some employers (self included) even actively source current fed workers as we know they might be willing to leave for the private sector given the state of their current employer. Just explain that while you have enjoyed your career doing X, you are open to exploring new opportunities and this specific role is interesting to you because of ABC.

      1. JustaTech*

        Exactly!
        Let’s give an example outside of government: if I know that another company in my area and field is closing their office in my city, then I don’t really need to ask why people from that company are leaving their job: because it’s going/gone.

  32. HonorBox*

    OP2 – I’m assuming you don’t want to have your supervisor address things because it could make things uncomfortable and weird. But please recognize that that discomfort is probably going to be shorter-lived than you think it will be. Talk to your supervisor and other management. Highlight what you’ve highlighted here. Share that you’re not sure the present dynamics, if addressed poorly, would allow you to effectively lead, and that you’re considering looking for a role elsewhere. Management may have other ideas and suggestions for you. Or maybe you do ultimately decide to leave. But you’ve been growing into a leadership and management role. You’re recognizing a management issue, both because this contractor is doing what she’s been told not to do (has she been told explicitly, or has it been softer language?) and she’s actively undermining the work that the team is doing. Whether you stay and are the manager, or you choose to leave and someone else is hired to manage, this situation needs to be addressed. You have three people who are not doing all of their jobs. You have a contractor who is operating way beyond the scope of her contract. This is a mess.

    1. Jackalope*

      I agree with laying things out and letting management and/or HR know about this, but it’s generally a bad idea to mention that you’re thinking about leaving since that can affect your job in all sorts of ways. And honestly it doesn’t even affect the situation that much; junior employees deciding not to do their jobs would be an issue whether the OP stays or leaves, and the contractor is already a known issue and this can help them deal with her.

    1. Popinki*

      For that matter, why didn’t the airline tell him to book his return trip for four days earlier so he and his family wouldn’t get stuck? Personally, I blame his travel agent for not telling him to bump things up a week.

      1. Eldritch Office Worker*

        I’ve gotta be honest, I haven’t known anyone in the last 20 years who used a travel agent.

        1. Popinki*

          Then who do they blame when they get stuck in a war zone that everyone knew about? ;)

          (I avoid traveling more than a few hours from home, so I have no idea how it works, obviously.)

          1. Amateur Linguist*

            Travel insurance would handle the fallout of that kind of issue as well as other problems on holiday (like I lost my phone on the Stockholm metro). In the UK you’d consult the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) website; insurers base what they underwrite on FCO information, so if you choose to go into problematic areas, you go at your own risk. However, the problem comes when things happen as they did over the last month where the results are unpredictable; the UAE is entirely in the amber zone (essential travel only) because of the chaos. That’s when insurance loses the gamble they take on underwriting your trip to Dubai that they believed would be uneventful and then was suddenly attacked by Iran.

            1. Teapot Connoisseuse*

              War is often a general exclusion under travel insurance policies. That’s why my friends who came to visit me in NZ last month were SOL when they enquired about claiming for the additional costs of rearranging their flights back to the UK after their original travel plans to return via Dubai and Jordan were cancelled. Fortunately they didn’t incur too much extra expense from their revised plans, which took them to Phuket and a stopover in Chengdu (and getting to see elephants, giant pandas, and red pandas along the way was a bonus!)

        2. Bella Ridley*

          Travel agents are still extremely widespread for big companies, because it makes more sense for that to be someone’s job instead of having 500 people book their own insane travel plans. They’re also really widely used for more niche travel, people use them a lot to book, say, a cruise or Disney travel that involves many family members meeting in one place from a lot of different city origins; they’re also common for people booking off-the-beaten-path type travel, like a hiking excursion in Patagonia with a lot of different moving parts. They made somewhat of a comeback post-covid as a reaction to people getting frustrated with third-party airline booking agents and third-party hotel booking services that promise cheap travel but when things go wrong leave you high and dry. Much easier to book through an agent, and when you have a problem call them and let them figure it out. Not usually required for your two nights in Boise at the Ramada, but if you are flying across continents, traveling by several different methods, and staying in seven different hotels, it can be worth it.

          2. Coverage Associate*

            Also, judging by the languages on the signs for the travel agents in my area (San Francisco peninsula), they are more common in immigrant communities. I don’t often see travel agent storefronts with all signage in English, but do see them in Asian languages, to an extent disproportionate to the Asian American population in the region.

            It would make sense that people with mixed immigration status families and traveling internationally for the first time after a change in immigration status would want expert advice.

  34. Meg*

    Also, LW5– if your boss is doing it to you, they’re probably doing it to others! Talk to HR and get your money back!

      1. Pizza Rat*

        Yes, this! I was thinking exactly what Meg was saying. This is unlikely to be an isolated incident.

  35. aarti*

    I want to cry just listening to this poor employee’s situation. I have been in a similar situation. It was in the ending days of PanAm. Before cellphones. No grace for people stuck in a bad situation and your boss is terrible OP #1!

  36. ZSD*

    #5 Yes, absolutely report this!

    #2 This is a minor part of the letter, but it’s very strange to me that people allow the contractor to just sit in on meetings she’s not a part of. Anywhere I’ve worked, people would assume she had intended to do her own work in the conference room, explain that they’ve booked the room for a meeting, and expect her to leave. You can’t just sit in on a meeting unrelated to your work because you feel like it!

    1. Myrin*

      Re: #2, I was thinking that! I read “She has a habit of staying in conference rooms during meetings she is not a part of” and thought “…okay? Why did people simply continue on with/start these meetings in the first place instead of telling her to leave?”.

      1. Asloan*

        Especially when OP is the boss, if she really has the authority of a boss, she should be able to tell the contractor to leave. You can do it politely but still do it. Of course that means believing your supervisor would have your back if the contractor complains. (That example is especially weird to me because I was being paid for a certain number of hours, so I was not trying to pick up any unnecessary unpaid extra hours!). Perhaps a higher-up will have the ability to change how this person’s contract is structured or something.

    2. HonorBox*

      It is curious that no one has actually just politely ushered her out of the meetings. Does she have priority over the meeting space? Can these meetings just be moved to a different space?

  37. jolly good fellow*

    #2- they told you that with the expectation that you would be too intimidated to tell upper management and would quietly resign. Don’t give them that satisfaction. Call their bluff.

  38. Pocket Mouse*

    #5 – Wait, why wouldn’t the LW be clear about the facts of what happened? If they just say paychecks aren’t matching the hours logged, HR will probably take a cursory look and say the paychecks accurately reflect the timesheets (unsaid: as the timesheets were at the time of approval). The LW needs to highlight the issue comes before the timesheet approval step.

    Like saying to HR, “My paychecks have correctly reflected my approved timesheets, but for a while my timesheets were being changed between me inputting my hours and the timesheets being approved – I actually worked more hours than those timesheets reflect. I asked my manager about the discrepancies [insert manager’s response here] and there haven’t been any changes to my timesheet since. Could you review my past timesheets to see whether there are any additional wages I should have received in those paychecks? I’m happy to share the hours I worked to the extent I have them documented, if needed.”

    While the LW can only see that the timesheet has been changed and by whom, it may be possible for HR to see the actual original entries – and this would flag for HR that they need to look closely at other timesheets this manager has approved.

    Also, LW, use every method at your disposal for documenting actual time worked. Things like texts to other people saying you’re leaving work, or that you just got to work and forgot your umbrella, or days you went directly from work to a 7pm activity, the patient schedule and timestamps of records you entered, rewards program texts from the coffee shop you go to before work, your own system for tracking where you need to be when, etc.

  39. Emily Bembily*

    Boss 1 is on some WILD SHIT. Are you going to cut an employee’s sick days because they knew in advance about their chronic illness? You don’t get to just cut days for funsies.

  40. What_the_What*

    LW2: Ideally, in the moment you’d have called the contractor out on her BS and said, “Nope. Not accurate. You don’t even work *for* this company, and you most certainly aren’t a “de facto” anything, but let’s pull (manager) in to this meeting and get us all on the same page, once and for all.” Sounds like nobody has challenged her, so challenge her! Every.Time!

  41. Oh No!*

    Whelp, between #1 and yesterdays’s boss who wanted to know when LW’s dad is going to die, I think we will need quarterly, March Madness style Worst Boss brackets. My God.

    1. Veryanon*

      Absolutely – there are so many bad bosses these days that we need more contests available.

  42. Capybara*

    Good morning Alison. How would you suggest that LW1 keep the Unholy Trinity from finding out that LW1 reported them? This is assuming LW1 follows your advice. Those three are the type who would retaliate against the LW.

    1. HR Exec Popping In*

      No real way to have them not know. But that is ok. They can’t actually retaliate from an employment law perspective. But sure they can “mean girl” the OP. And if that happens, you deal with it. This happens with coworkers (and frankly in all parts of life). We need to learn skills on how to deal with conflict, not avoid it.

      1. HonorBox*

        I think management has a great opportunity, in addressing the group, to strongly support the LW and almost give a “take it or leave it” statement. Everyone can be replaced, and that’s especially true with people who have been there as short a period as the three employees have. The employees can choose to do their job and be managed properly, or they can be replaced.

        1. Specks*

          This. If it’s not working out this short of a time into employment, it’s definitely better to part ways. One serious talk, a couple of weeks to clearly show they’ve taken it on board and changed their ways. Otherwise, goodbye. And as for a contractor, I bet there are clauses in her contract that could get her fired if she creates this many problems. Or at least maybe she could be made remote if that’s an option or otherwise removed from the others.

          Generally, sounds like OP needs to learn how to stand up for herself, though, and not be so extremely conflict-avoidant, or she doesn’t belong in management.

          1. LW1*

            I don’t have any idea what this thread is about and what part of my question is about standing up for myself and needing to be less conflict avoidant. What am I missing?

            1. JustaTech*

              I think they meant LW2, not you.

              I hope your employee and his family are doing better and your boss sees what a complete jerk they’ve been and changes their ways.

  43. Bathyphysa Conifera*

    #2:
    Do you want to be a manager or team lead, just not here?
    Do you dislike all conflict, or just feel that this specific conflict has too many signs it won’t resolve and removing yourself is the only solution you are interested in?
    Do you have a new job offer? Are you looking? What is this two month deadline?

  44. nsuth*

    Re L1: I work in geopolitical risk analysis. Our job is literally to identify and predict trends in geopolitics that could have an impact on businesses. My boss, informed by a team of people whose literal job it is to understand what’s going on in the Middle East, had a trip to the region scheduled for three days AFTER the war broke out, that he did not cancel until hostilities actually started. Yes, we all knew war was “imminent” in a general sense, but suggesting that any one person should have known when war was coming to that level of detail is so asinine I don’t have words.

  45. Another Hiring Manager*

    I’m curious about the contractor that they can’t fire. My experience with both being a contractor and having them report to me is they can be removed at any time. Obviously, I don’t know what’s in this contract, but in ten years of experience I’ve never seen such a situation.

  46. Quilma*

    A few others have pointed out the passivity from OP2’s letter, but this line in particular stuck out to me: “But if I tell my supervisor what happened, I assume they would try to address things, which I just don’t want.”

    Why not?? You say you’re worried they’ll make your life miserable until you quit, but… they’re already making you miserable to get you to quit. Whereas if you report their completely inappropriate behavior (lying about her position! telling people not to listen to you! refusing to do their work! insulting you!), there’s a very real chance that the behavior will be stopped.

    Remember, they’re the ones doing wrong here. They are the ones who should be leaving (by being shown the door, if necessary), not you.

    1. Bathyphysa Conifera*

      My first interpretation of that line–and I might be way off–was that if it could be improved then OP would have to stay, so OP couldn’t risk improvement.

      Which I actually do understand in some cases–where the scattered 10% improvements never accrue into the needed 50% improvement, so you’re trying to avoid trapping yourself in “if things improve then I have to stay.”

      You’re allowed to leave anyhow, OP. Things can improve AND you can move on. There are all sorts of scenarios where both things happen and it’s an unremarkable career path.

      1. fhqwhgads*

        Good point. I read that as something more like expecting the boss’s attempt to fix to actually make the situation worse, which OP doesn’t have the spoons for. But I may be reading too much into “try to address things” vs “address things”.

        I did wonder along a similar line as Quilma, if OP got the promotion, wouldn’t OP have even more authority than they do now? Not to sound power-trippy or anything but once you’re higher up, even more so than now, you have the actual power to address it. May not want to or have the energy to, but it’d be in their hands.

        Like, I know they said the contract makes the external person untouchable-ish, but the other three seem super fireable? Or at least “hey this is half your job, it’s not something you can decline, knowing that, does it make sense to stay in the role?”

  47. Throwaway Account*

    I really want updates from #2 and #5, I really hope I (or one of you) remember this when we get asked for updates!

  48. Firefly*

    #5 – “Since I brought the discrepancies to my manager’s attention, my timesheets have not been touched.” I almost missed this sentence, it was glossed over so quickly.

    I wonder what the manager said when OP confronted her? Did she give any explanation or justification for what she did? If there was no reasonable explanation as to why she was changing the timesheets, then yeah, she needs to be reported.

    The only thing I could think of that might be causing confusion is OT rules – OT rules vary from state to state and when I did payroll for the nursing department in a hospital, some nurses thought if they worked more than 8 hours in a day they would get OT. I had to explain to them that OT didn’t kick in until working more than 40 in an entire week.

    1. Ama*

      If OP is correct that the timesheets are being adjusted to make manager’s budget look better, I suspect manager might be doing this to anyone she thinks won’t notice or complain. Which is all the more reason why OP should take this to HR – I bet OP’s not the only one getting shorted here.

    2. fhqwhgads*

      Easy confusion for people coming from California to not California, but it still doesn’t explain why the manager would edit the timesheet. It’d only explain why the paychecks were lighter than what OP expected.

      I’ve been in a situation where managers could edit timesheets before, but the only reason they did it was to correct obvious errors (where they were present and knew what the “real” number was an how it differed from what was entered/obvious typo), or mistakes the employee reported themselves after submitting (at which point the employee couldn’t change it). It was never clandestine.

  49. Nat20*

    Oh man, OP5 should report this yesterday! That is squarely, hugely illegal. Regardless of the company’s unreasonable budget demands, that doesn’t change the fact that you’ve worked the hours you’ve worked! If your manager wanted her department to be spending less to meet those unreasonable demands, there are other ways to do that which don’t involve *stealing money from employees*. Which is what this is, by the way. It’s just straight-up wage theft.

    Still, I wouldn’t go the lawyer route unless you are challenged/refused by the company on it, but I have a strong feeling you won’t be, and instead HR will be horrified, pay you back immediately, and (rightfully) fire, or at MINIMUM discipline, your manager. Alison is also right that if you’re worried about retaliation you don’t have to mention in your report that you know it’s her, you can just say you noticed it’s off. They’ll figure it out just as easily as you did.

    And please update us!

  50. fhqwhgads*

    LW4, there are zero, ZERO reasonable people who would hear “I’m looking to leave the federal gov for something more stable” right now and disbelieve it. That sentence covers it. And if you’re not dealing with someone reasonable, you probably don’t want to work there anyway.

  51. London Calling*

    *you’re dismayed by the suggestion to penalize him on the grounds that he “should have known.”*

    He should have known
    He knew what he was getting into

    Phrases that Totally, TOTALLY enrage me beyond reason because a) they blame the victim and b) they’re stupid because they assume that every one of us was issued with a crystal ball at birth that we could peer into and foresee the consequences of every action.

    Your boss is an unthinking idiot with zero empathy and s/he is beyond stupid.

  52. Spaypets*

    I am gobsmacked that the boss in the first letter thought the employee should have known that there was going to be a war with Iran. I have a relative who was spending the winter in Israel who had no idea. Furthermore, that very week, their whole family, including adult children, arrived for a week long visit. Imagine evacuating your city apartment so quickly that you forget things like underwear to escape to a safer place in the desert. Meanwhile, your phone is warning you about incoming missiles, forcing you to pull off the side of the road, escape the car into the ditch crouched in a tiny ball, waiting for an all clear.

    Then, once you are “safe” in the desert, being awakened every night to warnings on your phone and worrying you will have to go into an air raid shelter. Meanwhile, you’re desperately trying to get you and your CHILDREN out of the country.

    No one volunteers their family for that kind of trauma. My relative is home safe but still has trouble sleeping. LW 1, please be gentle with your coworker. Even though everything is ok now, they didn’t know it would turn out ok.

  53. Ex-Prof*

    #1 What everyone knew before the sudden violence was that Iran and the U.S. were in treaty negotiations.

    It was impossible to foresee from there a situation in which the entire region was shutting down air travel.

  54. Orange_You_Glad*

    #5 – You should be going directly to HR/Payroll as soon as you notice an issue. The day you receive your check stub you should be reporting the disrecpencies. It doesn’t matter who changed it or why. Let HR figure it out.

    I had a similar issue once – only once. I am exempt but we still have to log our PTO on a timesheet each week. One paycheck had 1 day of PTO charged on it, but I hadn’t taken any PTO that period. I went in our HR system and saw I had a day deducted for a specific date that I was at work (I scanned into the office, was sending emails, attended meetings, etc). I’m pretty sure my manager changed it in the system because he was feeling petty that day (he decided since I didn’t drop everything to answer one of his calls where he rambles about non work related stuff for an hour, it meant I must be out of the office). As soon as I noticed it, I went straight to HR. They fixed it within 24 hours. I have no idea if anything was said to my manager but it was never a problem again. I just reported it as an obvious mistake and let them work it out.

  55. OfficeManagerSlashMiracleWorker*

    In regard to #4:
    Can somebody explain this “imposing a cap on the number of employees exceeding expectations”? Does that mean only a certain number of people can be “really good at their job” and once that quota is filled, the other “really good at their job people” are out of luck? Is that a real metric that employers (in this case it seems government) utilize?

    1. DramaQ*

      Yes our company does that. As our big wig put it there is no way that “everyone” can “excel” at their jobs so he expected to see perfect bell curves when approving departments annual reviews. He wanted to see X number of “exceed”, Y number of “average” and Z number of “below expectaions”.

      So yes someone or several someones not only cannot reach exceeding expectations but there must be a sacrifice made and people get “below expectations” so the curve can be achieved. Even if you don’t feel you have someone who is performing below you get yelled at by the higher ups because they don’t think managers are doing their jobs if they can’t find at least one person to rate below expectations.

      Makes for a super great motivator to do your job, let alone go above and beyond. HR markets this as “fair” assessments. We all know it is so they can deny promotions and anything more than a flat raise of 2-3%.

      Then they complain because the company has been experiencing brain drain. Gee wonder why?

    2. JustaTech*

      Yes, it’s common and very frustrating. It was a big thing (and a huge source of morale damage) at Microsoft for a while: you take all your employees and jam them into a bell curve. So if you have a team of 5 that has been doing amazing work, only one or two people can be rated “exceeding expectations” – and someone might even get marked as “below expectations” even though in another group, or in another year, their work would have been rated “meets” or even “exceeds”.

      At my old job we were rated 1-5, where 1 is fired and 5 was I think maybe 1 or 2 people in the whole, 1,000+ company in any given year.
      I was told, more than once, that I couldn’t be given an “exceeds” because the two available to our department (required for raises) were being given to other people who desperately needed a promotion (and in a reasonable place would have been given a promotion years before).
      Nothing takes the wind out of your sails like busting tail all year to be told “eh, good enough”.

  56. Veryanon*

    I’d like to nominate the boss in the first letter for the “worst boss of 2026” contest.

  57. Bike Walk Bake Books*

    Advice to LW #4 is what Alison always says: You don’t have to explain why you’re leaving your last position. But I find myself wanting LW #2 to do that as a thought exercise to look at their actions from a different angle.

    “Why are you leaving your last position, when you said they were planning to promote you?”

    “Because a contractor said things that weren’t true, other coworkers listened to them, this all affected my work and my working relationships, and I didn’t want to tell my boss anything about what was going on so I decided to just leave the whole situation.”

    “Hmmm.” [Scribbles notes. Doesn’t bring LW #2 back for second interview.]

    You really, really need to be able to take things to your boss that are theirs to deal with. This clearly is. They need to level-set on duties and performance expectations for new hires. They need to manage the contractor to get the actual deliverables they’re paying for and not have them interfere with how the organization is structured and who does what.

    Whether someone is a contractor or an employee, if their work is unacceptable or they don’t understand their role, the manager needs to provide clarity and direction. That’s genuinely good for the new hires, who gain understanding of what it will take to grow with the organization. For the contractor, that person gets to decide whether they want to deliver what they promised, stop doing things they were told not to do, and keep this client, or not. The manager gets information needed to decide about a future contract renewal, if they genuinely can’t end the contract now.

    And you’re genuinely doing a favor to those new hires even though they won’t recognize it in the moment. I’m thinking of a time when I didn’t know someone was poisoning the well within my organization with their behaviors toward others (along with other issues not the point here). The information came to light far too light for any sort of coaching or corrective action, just days before the end of a probationary period. If even one of the people who’d had a bad experience had just *said something* early on, we could have done the developmental work, found the pattern, identified what wasn’t acceptable, discovered whether they could adapt and become a better team member. Instead, that person didn’t pass probation and lost their job because no one would simply name what was happening to someone who could do something about it.

    The manager can’t do any of that if they don’t know what’s going on. With the gift of information you’re giving them the opportunity to manage. Maybe they won’t be good at it, but you’ll never know if you don’t ask.

  58. One HR Opinion*

    LW #5 and anyone in a similar situation…

    TL/DR: get your money but don’t start with an extreme option

    As someone who has been responsible for parts of payroll and HR for a couple decades now, if you have a discrepancy with your pay, please start with them first. We cannot correct mistakes or issues if we are unaware of them.

    If this doesn’t work, then contact your state department of labor. This option can have more severe consequences for your employer than you may imagine or intend.

    Then if they don’t fix it or there are signs of retaliation, contact your state’s department of labor.

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