I think I completely messed up this salary negotiation

by Alison Green on June 30, 2016

A reader writes:

I had an first-round interview for a job yesterday that went very well until they asked, “So, are you willing to be flexible on salary? Because we have to be honest, your desired salary is significantly higher than what we’ve budgeted for.”

I’ve since done my research (which, admittedly, I should’ve done before the interview) and realized I broke rule #1, which is don’t tell them your desired salary.

But it gets worse.

I **answered** this question, which I have learned is mistake #2.

I said, “Well, I can be flexible, yes… I mean, what kind of significant difference are we talking here?”

This, of course, was mistake #3. Because now I’m negotiating against myself.

They explained that their high-water mark for the position was $25k below my desired salary. They also stressed that their high-water mark was basically for a perfect candidate.

When I heard their salary range, I winced. But I repeated that I could be flexible. Mistake #4. I want this job and I’m on my way to a second interview, in person. In fact, I’m flying out for this second interview, so they know I want this job. (Mistake #5)

It wasn’t until after I had a day or two to step back and think everything over that I realized the following:
– I negotiated against myself before an offer was even made and significantly devalued my experience.
– I was too eager about the job.
– I risk looking unprofessional / like I wasted their time with the second interview if I go back on my willingness to be flexible.

But not all is lost:
– Based on the salary range and what they said in the interview (that I have the most experience of anyone they’re interviewing), I think this position was initially designed for someone who is more junior than me. So they want my experience level; they just don’t want to pay for it.
– They repeated several times that they are excited by my candidacy and asked if I could interview a second time right away.
– I absolutely am willing to walk away from the opportunity if it means I have to significantly devalue my experience and qualifications.

I’m willing to meet them in the middle and come down if they’re willing to come up. I just don’t know how to say that after digging such a big hole for myself and giving away wayyyy to much information they can use to their negotiating advantage.

I have another interview (this time in-person) coming up. Here’s what I need to know: Can I broach that, now that I’ve had time to really think everything over, I am very concerned about the salary range that was previously discussed, and that I would need them to also be flexible? If so, how do I do that in a manner that is professional and compelling?

You think you made way more mistakes than you actually made, so the first thing to do is to stop beating yourself up.

Yes, there’s lots of advice out there that says that you shouldn’t name a salary figure. There’s also advice (from me, for example) that says that there can be a real advantage to naming your desired salary, especially in a case like this where you need to figure out if you’re just too far apart on numbers.

Salary negotiation doesn’t have to be a game. Sometimes it makes sense to be straightforward about what you’re looking for. That’s not inherently a mistake, and you shouldn’t automatically assume that you’re dealing with hard-negotiating adversaries who are looking for weaknesses to take advantage of. That’s really not how most employers negotiate salary. Good employers want people to be happy with their salaries; they’re not looking for the absolute bare minimum they can pay a good candidate, because they don’t want good people leaving for higher paying jobs in a year.

The only mistake you really made was by saying that you could be flexible after they told you their range — because that conveyed that you were okay with the number they named, even though you weren’t.

But you shouldn’t beat yourself up for that either, because it’s so, so common to do that. Most people aren’t professional salary negotiators; this stuff is nerve-wracking, and it’s normal to mess it up.

The good news is that you can correct it. You can wait for the next interview if you want to, but I’d recommend sending them an email right now that says something like, “I wanted to follow up with you about salary. I’ve had a chance to think over the numbers that you named, and I want to make sure that we’re on the same page. While I can be flexible about salary for a position I’m excited about, I can’t go below $X. If that’s prohibitive, I understand, but otherwise I’d love to keeping talking.”

Obviously, if you say this, you need to be prepared for them to say it’s a deal-breaker on their side and for that to end things. That’s why you need to pick X carefully. People also worry that once you say $X, they’re unlikely to offer you much more than that. But given that you’re already $25,000 apart, I don’t think there’s real risk that you’d be leaving money on the table by taking this approach.

One last thing: It’s interesting that you think that you’ll look unprofessional and like you’re wasting their time if you go back on your willingness to be flexible, even though they brought you in for an interview when they already knew that they were way below your desired salary, and they didn’t bother to tell you that until you were already there. Don’t give them a pass on something you’re kicking yourself for. This stuff goes both ways.

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my coworker complained about my burping and farting, my manager gave away my project, and more

by Alison Green on June 30, 2016

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. My coworker complained about my burping and farting

I have a work situation I have no idea how to deal with. I found out yesterday that my coworker who works in the cubicle next to mine is incredibly offended by the fact that my body makes sounds a lot. I belch pretty constantly throughout the day, with some farts as well. I say “excuse me” frequently, and I’ve been to the doctor and it just happens. My brother and father are the same way. I told her this, and she told me to go to the bathroom. I was literally speechless.

I’m attempting to comply with her demand, but it’s making me less productive, is super anxiety inducing, and a little bit painful. Our boss is really hands-off and I don’t know what he would think if I brought it up, and I don’t think I’m capable of speaking to my coworker about it. I’m pretty sure this mostly doesn’t smell, and scented products make me completely unable to work, so even if there is there’s not a lot to be done. I feel awful and I’m afraid I’m going to lose my job because of this nonsense. What do I do?

If this is the result of a medical condition, it’s reasonable to explain that. If you truly can’t control it, you can’t control it. (I’m assuming you’ve tried over-the-counter treatments like Gas-X and so forth, and that you’ve inquired about treatment with your doctor.)

But it’s also reasonable for your coworker to be pretty miserable if she’s subjected to farting and burping all day. I don’t think you should be shocked by that — it’s understandable that it’s creating a pretty unpleasant environment for her.

If it’s a medical condition, you might be able to talk to your boss about the possibility of moving to a more secluded workspace. But if that’s not possible, I think you probably need to be understanding about the impact it’s having on your cubicle neighbor and not be shocked that it bothers her. It’s similar to if you had a constant cough or nose-sniffling problem; it’s out of your control, but you’d probably still try to be thoughtful about how it impacted others, to the extent that you could.

2. My manager gave a project I’d been promised to a more senior coworker

My manager was going to have me work on a project that would allow me to grow my skills and prove that I’m capable of more advanced work (I’m angling for a promotion in the coming months). Instead, she told me that she gave the project to a (more senior) colleague because she felt that I “have a lot on [my] plate right now and we need to get this done quickly.” Yes, I have a few other ongoing projects I’m working on currently, but I don’t at all feel overwhelmed by the workload.

I’m bummed to miss this opportunity to prove myself. Am I misjudging my workload? Am I working at a jog when I should be working at a sprint? Is this an indication that my turnaround time on projects is too long?

Any of those things could be true, but it’s also possible that it’s just about the reality that someone experienced is going to get it done faster than someone who’s new to the work. She may have genuinely wanted to assign it to you as a growth opportunity and then realized that she just needs it faster than that would allow (stretch projects usually require more feedback, more revision, and more guidance, and generally just take longer to get done).

But you can talk to her and tell her that you were really looking forward to taking that on, that you understand why it didn’t work out this time, and that you’re really interested in similar opportunities in the future.

3. I’m breastfeeding and was told to pump in the bathroom

I’m still nursing my five-month-old and work full-time, which means I breast pump three times a day. Two months ago, it was announced that our office was moving down the road. I followed up with our office manager as well as the assistant, as a detail like needing a private room with a door that locks — just for me — was probably not on the top of their minds. Each time an email was sent about the move, I followed up, and got a “oh yeah…we’re working on it” response.

In hindsight, I should have shared what the expectations — and laws — were. I don’t think the office manager or assistant have HR backgrounds nor have set up breast-pumping stations before, so I have to assume what happened next was an honest mistake.

Fast forward to yesterday, the first day in the office. On the tour in the morning, I was shown a bathroom on the other side of the campus, with the promise of a half fridge to store the expressed milk. I’d be sitting on a toilet (without a lid that seals off the toilet bowl) to pump, holding the pump in my hands, since there is no place to set it down. (I could share more details, but the more I write, the more angry I get. I mean, my kid will eat this – and I’m pumping it where people poop? C’mon!) Since this “room” was not set up yesterday, I pumped once in a bathroom close to me and nearly cried the entire time. I was pretty humiliated.

My boss is out until next week, and I’d like to work with our office manager to find a more suitable solution before sending it up to HR. Office space is tight; there are conference rooms available, but they don’t have the ability to lock.

I’m frustrated at how this has been handled, so fear that I’m going to come from a place of anger OR not stand up for myself. (See previous feelings of humiliation.) It’s now much into the workday of the second day at the new place, and no news.

Speak up and let them know, right away! I’d say it this way: “Legally, we’re actually required to provide a private location for pumping that isn’t a bathroom, and which has a door that locks. Is there an interim location that I should use while this is getting worked out? The bathroom really isn’t an option, legally or practically.”

If you get any push-back or suggestions that you continue using the bathroom just for a few more days, say this: “The bathroom is not an option for this, and the law is explicit that that can’t be our solution.” And I’d consider looping HR in immediately rather than waiting, since they’re likely to be more familiar with the law than your office manager is.

It’s not your problem that office space is at a premium; this is their responsibility to solve, and you reminded them multiple times that they’d need to.

Read an update to this letter here.

4. I was told I’d get a promotion but nothing’s happening

I have been working for a small company for two and a half years as an admin assistant. They’ve paid for two licencing courses to qualify me to be an account manager in two different departments, but I’ve retained all my admin duties and taken up a small portfolio of accounts of my own.

In November, I sat down with the company CEO and he said it was their plan within 4-6 months to hire someone to take over the front desk so I could become a full-time account manager. However, whenever it is brought up again, it’s always in a vague statement like, “Oh, down the road that’s our plan.” I got a small raise in January but I still feel like I’m being underpaid (I took a pay cut to move to this company and have just gotten back to my former rate.) I don’t know how to go about asking them to follow through with their promises. It’s a great company otherwise but I’m getting burned out from being a receptionist and I am starting to feel so unhappy. The job market here is awful so it would not be easy to find a comparable job and I don’t want to waste my training so far.

Ask for a more concrete timeline. Say this: “I’m very eager to work in accounts full-time as we’ve talked about, and I’m hoping that I can do that here since I love the company. Can we talk more concretely about what the timeline for that will look like?”

If you ask this directly and you still get a vague answer, I would assume that it may never happen, or at least doesn’t have enough certainty that it’s something you should plan around. In that case, you’re better off assuming it’s not happening there and deciding what you’d want to do if you knew that for sure. That probably means that you should be job searching. You note the awful job market, but that doesn’t mean that finding another job would be impossible, and you have nothing to lose by trying. If the job market is indeed so bad that nothing pans out, then you’ll know that and won’t be any worse off than you are (in fact, you’ll be better off, because you’ll have more data about the situation).

5. Resigning when my employer has bid out some work based on me

So I have the lucky problem of likely having two job offers. I’ve been contracting for a company part-time for two months with the possibility of getting a full-time job. In the meantime, I’ve been job hunting and have just been offered/accepted something else. I feel bad because I know that the company has bid out some work based on me, and the last I heard it was in legal review — but they were will still unwilling to make me an offer.

I’m waiting for the background check to come through (not really worried) but then I have to tell them. What’s the best way to handle this? The side of me that wants to avoid confrontation wants to do this via email, but I know that’s not the right way to handle this. (unless you tell me it is? :) ) Do you have any suggestions on what to say as to not burn the bridge? They did know I was job hunting. At this point, I don’t think there’s anything that they can say to change my mind. (It’s not just about salary, it’s about commute, stability, type of work, etc.)

It’s good to finally have this type of problem!

Just be direct, and don’t feel guilty. If they wanted to lock you down, they would have made you a job offer — and they know that. They knew you were job hunting, they knew they hadn’t offered you full-time work, and no reasonable person would expect you to turn down full-time work for a job offer that doesn’t actually exist yet.

And yes, talk to your manager in person (assuming you work in the same location; otherwise, phone is fine). Say this: “I’ve really enjoyed working here, and in particular really appreciate how great you’ve been to work with. However, I’ve been offered a full-time job that I’ve decided to accept.”

That’s it — really! If your manager alludes to the bid they have out that’s based on work you’d do, you can say, “Without the certainty of a full-time job here, this wasn’t something I could pass up.” (That does set you up for her possibly saying she could try to expedite an offer for you there, but if that happens, just say, “I really appreciate that, but I’m excited about the offer I’ve accepted. Thank you though.”)

And congratulations!

Read an update to this letter here.

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I had to share a bed with a coworker on a business trip

by Alison Green on June 29, 2016

A reader writes:

Some coworkers and I recently went on overnight travel, and the plan was to have us split two hotel rooms. Sharing a room with people I work with is less than my favorite thing, but we’re a nonprofit, and it has been decided that this is what we’ll do to save money, so I grit my teeth and vent later if needed to friends and family.

I expected this trip would follow the standard room sharing format, and that I would probably be the one who ended up sharing a room with my boss. However, there were some unexpected changes that ultimately resulted in three people sharing one room with two beds. Those last two points I did not realize until the moment we walked into the room. My stomach dropped when I saw the beds. As the more senior of the two, I quietly told my coworker to take the extra bed for themselves; through what remaining crumb of fortune there was, it ended up that I shared a bed with Coworker instead of Boss.

I hope it doesn’t require much explanation to convey how very, very upset I was to have to share what amounted to every last inch of personal space. It’s bad enough to lose any potential downtime during these trips because I am sharing a room with a coworker who usually is more interested in continuing work conversations late into the night, or who snores, or who talks in their sleep, or who gets up an hour before I need to, or who simply by virtue of their presence means I won’t be able to take my brain out of work mode after a 12- or 14-hour day. But to share a bed?! There is a very, very short list of people who I want to share a bed with, and no matter how much I will ever like the people I work with, they will never, ever be on that list. I have enough things to worry about on these trips. Kicked or being kicked by my coworker as we toss and turn, or not being able to actually sleep because there is a strange person in my bed, should not be one of those things.

To me it is so incredibly obvious why you should NOT EVER SHARE A BED WITH A COWORKER. However, when I made a comment about it just as an aside to my coworker, Coworker replied wondering why bed-sharing was a problem, and I found myself at almost a complete loss for words to explain why this was so out of bounds. My manager never made any comment about the room or beds, either, and I suspect that they saw nothing wrong with the arrangement.

I plan to bring this up with Boss, but I’m having difficulty on finding words that would be effective when I’m the only person who seems to find what happened unreasonable and unprofessional. Seeking advice from friends and family doesn’t bring my phrasing out of the “apoplectic” category. Do you have any advice you could share any advice on how to bring this up like a calm and reasonable adult?

Your letter has given me nightmares.

Under no circumstances is it reasonable to expect you to share a bed with a coworker.

Good lord.

Was the front desk not willing to send up a cot, at least?

In any case, yes, yes, yes, speak to your boss. Say this: “Somehow on our last trip, Jane, Lucinda, and I ended up booked into a room with only two beds, and Jane and I ended up having to sleep in the same bed. I don’t know if it was intentionally booked that way or if it was a fluke. I’m not comfortable sharing a bed with a coworker, and I’m sure others aren’t either. I want to make sure we’re not intentionally booking people that way. Also, if it somehow happens again, I want to make sure it’s okay for me to expense a separate room at the hotel for one of the people.”

I don’t think she’ll push back too strongly because sharing a bed with with colleagues is not normal (despite your coworker’s weird stance), but if she does, say this: “I’m just not comfortable with it and don’t want to do it again.” If necessary, you can add, “Sleeping in the same bed as someone is an intimate activity, and we can’t require employees to do that.”

This is a reasonable position to draw a line on.

As for the room-sharing, separate from the bed-sharing … It is indeed true that there are some industries where sharing hotel rooms is the norm, like academia and some nonprofits, but frankly I think there are times when it’s reasonable to push back on that as well. I come from nonprofits too and I get the desire to be responsible with money — and I shared some hotel rooms with coworkers in my 20s, so I know that it’s a thing that happens although Never Again, Holy Hell, No, Never Again — but there’s a point where it’s just not reasonable to ask that of people, especially senior people, and especially on particularly draining trips or when there would be three of you (!) in the room. You know your organization best so you know if there’s room to advocate change there, but I wouldn’t write it off.

But sharing a bed? Sticking with a flat “I’m not comfortable doing that again” is the way to go here. And then follow through — if you ever find yourself in that situation again, pick up the phone, call the front desk, and get an additional room. Part of business travel is that you sometimes need to adjust your travel arrangements on the fly, and discovering that you’ve been booked into an intimate slumber party certainly qualifies as a good reason.

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how do I explain that I don’t want a management job anymore?

by Alison Green on June 29, 2016

A reader writes:

About a year ago, I was promoted to a supervisor role, which I have since realized is not a good fit for me. As a result, I’m looking to return to a senior analyst role, but I am finding a lot of resistance from prospective employers. In a recent interview for a position that was eerily similar to the position I had before becoming a supervisor, I told them I was looking to return to a role that allowed me to use my analytical skills and that I truly enjoyed that type of work more. But I could tell the hiring manager was worried I may up and leave, as there were no future opportunities in the department, and I think that is why I didn’t get the job, even though HR said my references were great.

How can I make it clear in an interview that I have no management aspirations, at least not in the near future, without it sounding negative? Is there a good way to say you feel more comfortable as a worker bee rather than as a supervisor?

I answer this question — and four others — over at Inc. today, where I’m revisiting letters that have been buried in the archives here from years ago (and sometimes updating/expanding my answers to them). You can read it here.

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I’m worried my manager has lost confidence in me

by Alison Green on June 29, 2016

A reader writes:

I tend to be a perfectionist, and I have a hard time coping when I feel like someone isn’t happy with work that I’ve done, or when I feel like I haven’t lived up to my own standards.

I’ve been at my current job for a little more than a year, and for the vast majority of that time, my supervisor and coworkers have seemed very pleased with me. My performance reviews so far have been completely positive. But I’m aware that over the past month or so, I’ve run up against more challenges than usual. I’ve taken on some new projects that I haven’t felt entirely confident about, there have been some organizational changes, and because this is a busy time for my department, I don’t always feel like I can easily get help when I have a question about something.

To make things worse, I struggle with anxiety, and while I’ve been working very hard to manage it, all it takes is a few bad days to put me behind on things. I really want to step up to the plate, and I’ve been worried that expressing concerns would make me look like I’m not capable or like I’m a complainer. But the truth is, I’ve been getting in over my head a bit, and I worry that it’s reflecting poorly on me. I haven’t made any terrible mistakes, but it’s taken me longer than usual to complete or follow up on tasks and I haven’t been as organized as I usually am. My supervisor hasn’t gotten upset with me, and she’s expressed understanding, but I’m worried that she has less confidence in me than she used to.

To be fair to myself, over the past couple weeks I feel like I’ve been doing a good job at catching up and getting back to my usual level of efficiency. I feel optimistic about my ability to handle things from here on out, at least for the most part. But I’m scared that a few “off” weeks will damage my reputation and workplace relationships, and that people are thinking poorly of me now. I think because I’m so hard on myself (I feel guilty whenever someone praises me, because I don’t feel like I deserve it), it’s hard for me to have an accurate perception of how things actually are.

Also, do you have any tips for addressing challenges when they come up? I struggle with asking for help or clarification sometimes because I don’t want to come across like I need my hand held. And do you have any suggestions for how to deal with it when things just aren’t going smoothly? I know that in the workplace, what matters is results. The fact that I might be having a bad day due to anxiety or a late night with a sick pet isn’t an excuse. But while I think I’m generally good at managing stress and anxiety and that bad days are uncommon, I can’t guarantee that I won’t ever go through a tough time and that that won’t impact my focus at all.

You are being too hard on yourself! This is both good news and bad news. It’s good news because you just had a few bad weeks and now you’re getting back to your normal self. A few bad weeks is really not a big deal (and they don’t even sound like you were terribly off in a way that others would notice and be distressed by). It’s bad news because being so hard on yourself over something that isn’t that big a deal can be a really hard way to go through life.

Let’s take these one at a time.

First, a few weeks of being off and feeling less organized and on-top of things than usual is seriously not a big deal. I think it happens to most (all of us?) now and then. It happens because we are humans, not automatons, and we get sick, have outside stresses and distractions, have sick kids/pets/parents/friends, and just have months where we’re inexplicably off.

Only a really awful manager would think that your year of good performance is canceled out by a few off weeks. I mean, sure, if during those few weeks you screamed at a client, flipped off the CEO, lost a major account, and left graffiti in the elevator, people would have concerns. But that’s not the sort of thing you’re describing. You’re describing what sounds like a pretty normal “eh, that wasn’t my best few weeks” period.

And now you’re catching up and getting back to your normal level of performance. This was a blip, and it will be fine.

If you will help give you peace of mind, it’s always fine to say to your manager, “Hey, I’ve had a tough few weeks and I just wanted to let you know in case it’s showing. I’m working on getting back on track though.”

Also, not only is it totally okay and normal to ask for help or clarification when you need it to, it’s actually necessary. It’s part of doing a good job. Managers expect you to ask for clarification and help when you need it. People ask managers for help and clarification all the time! Managers are used to it, it’s part of their job, it’s part of your job, and they are not going to wonder what’s wrong with you or why you need all this hand-holding. They’re going to think, “Good, I can count on Jane to tell me when she needs help. I don’t have to go poking around since I know she’ll come to me” and “Ah, I’m glad she asked that so I could weigh in.” (I mean, obviously there’s a point where requests for help could cross over from being normal and good to being too numerous, but someone who has the worries about this that you do is almost certainly miles away from that line.)

Now, the issue at the heart of your letter: You don’t feel like you’re good enough and deserving of the praise that you get, and everything must be perfect 100% of the time for you to feel okay in your skin. That’s an impossible and painful standard, and I bet you don’t require other people to meet it in order to have good will toward them, or even to respect and admire them. It sucks so much to go through life that way, letter-writer, and it’s a recipe for anxiety and for totally throwing off your perception of reality. So for this part, I say therapy — so that you can dig into where this came from and how to evict it from your brain. (And that is not further evidence of imperfection! That is evidence of you being perfectly, beautifully human.)

Good luck!

Read an update to this letter here.

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my boss retired but still won’t leave us alone, do people still put phone numbers on resumes, and more

by Alison Green on June 29, 2016

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. My boss retired but still won’t leave us alone

What do you do when your old boss finally retires and then still won’t leave you alone?! My old boss loved his agency and line of work so much that he worked beyond 40-hour weeks and was reluctant to retire in the first place. Then the arthritis in his hand got the best of him and he retired. We rejoiced. Now he won’t stop sending personal emails loaded with his opinions on how we should handle various situations that he intentionally sought to find out about through various social back-channels. Is there a polite way to say please just butt out already!?

Absolutely. Someone with authority could say to him, “Fergus, I’ve got to ask you to stop emailing the team about work matters because it’s confusing the message over here.” Or, if you don’t feel like you have the authority to say that, you could try, “Hey, Fergus, we’ve got this covered. Enjoy your retirement, and don’t worry about stuff here.”

And if that doesn’t work, you really could just ignore his messages. If that feels too rude, try verrrrrrry long waits before you respond, and then when you do respond, make it unsatisfying — just a quick “noted!” or something like that. It might wean him off the satisfaction he’s getting by still feeling involved. But really, ignoring is okay too, once you’ve done that initial “we’ve got it covered” message.

2. I’m terrified by the intensive business course I’m about to take

I managed to get a last-minute place in a course that runs for a few days, but I am terrified. The course is an intensive business/finance sort of thing, with speakers and lots of team work on the four days with a final presentation at the end. I decided to give it a go to challenge myself, maybe network a bit, and see if finance/business would be a career for me. I’m currently at university studying humanities.

Words cannot even begin to express how nervous I am about this and I need help in beating these nerves. I think it’s a combination of:
– having little to no business/finance knowledge so feeling out of place/inferior
– because my friend recommended me, I am an extension of their professional reputation and now feel like I have to do well (in fact they have reminded me of this, which is fine but it’s extra pressure and I’m very conscious of this)
– I’ve never networked before and worry just saying “I’m here to see what I’m interested in” is too vague or unambitious – it is designed for ambitious people and though I am ambitious I don’t know what I want to do
– no office/professional experience – the most I’ve done is part-time retail gigs

I suppose what I’m asking is, how on earth can I a) calm down about this and b) network effectively with little experience? I want to make a good impression on the other course mates who I’ll have to work with and the business people who will be there, and I know I can be collected and confident but I’m still panicking. Please help!

It’s is very, very likely that there will be lots of other people there who are similar to you. You definitely won’t be the only person who’s new to networking (and really, people with decades of work experience still feel awkward about networking — possibly most of us), and if the course is targeting university students, lots of them won’t have professional experience (or what they do have will be very minor). And “I’m here to see what I’m interested in” is totally reasonable; anyone who judges you for not being sure what you want to do professionally while you’re still in school must live in a bubble, since that’s a very normal way to feel.

And really, 99% of the time when you’re dreading something like this, it ends up being much, much better than you fear it will be. Will it help to realize that the level of anxiety you describe is out of sync with the reasons for it — that you’re stressing yourself out far more is warranted? I will send you a cupcake if I turn out to be wrong about this. (You just need to report back and send me your address if I’m wrong.)

Read an update to this letter here.

3. Do people still put phone numbers on resumes?

I am job hunting in New York City for a luxury retail sales jobs. I got an interesting question yesterday. Although the interviewer had my resume with my phone number in front of her, she asked for my number. When I asked her why, she said, “Now no one puts their phone number, just email.” So, is this a new thing? And would you recommend I keep or lose my phone number?

It’s not a thing. I suppose maybe it’s a thing in luxury retail sales in NYC (I’d have no idea), but it’s not a thing in general. I can’t think of the last time I got a resume without a phone number.

Loads of employers still contact candidates by phone rather than email, and most of them are not going to be pleased to discover that they can’t do that. Keep the phone number on there. (And really, if for some reason it is a thing in your field and region, you’re not going to be judged for having a phone number on there, since it’s a totally normal thing to provide.)

4. Should I push back on this change to one of my job duties?

I work for a school district, for our child care program. Throughout the school year, we have a dozen schools with about 600 children enrolled. I handle the deposits of fees for our program, and all parents are required to pay online with credit or debit card; I reconcile a monthly report of fees collected and hand it in to our accounting department. We also have a preschool, which is part of our department, that has about a fifth of our enrollment. Soon, all of the parents at the preschool will also be required to pay online, which will increase their volume. Since I am the only one in our department who does our card deposits, the office manager will not need to process deposits anymore.

I don’t mind taking over the deposits, since I think it will streamline things and it only accounts for a single line on the spreadsheet. However, I am wary of taking on a function of her job, considering she already make more than me because of her particular title. I’ve brought it up to our program coordinator, who is actually retiring this week, and she agrees with my point, and thinks I ought to have the office manager reconcile her own account. It may not work in practice, though, and the director of accounting might not go for it. Should I just suck it up and accept it?

Yes. Job duties switch around all the time. This isn’t like being asked to take on a whole new area of responsibility; it’s just a change to an area you’re already involved with.

If there’s some reason why it would make more business sense for the office manager to reconcile her own accounts, that would be different. But it sounds like you agree that the change makes sense.

5. Do I have to paid for a full week when my last day is mid-week?

I am an exempt employee. I have given my two weeks notice and will be ending mid-week. Does my employer still need to pay me for the full week or does this change because I’ve given my resignation?

Nope, this is one of the few exceptions where the law doesn’t require exempt employees to receive their full salary for the week. They can pay you for a partial week if it’s your first week or your last week. (If anyone is baffled by what the hell “exempt” means, here’s an explanation.)

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how much should we accommodate employees’ dietary restrictions at work events?

by Alison Green on June 28, 2016

A reader writes:

I plan a LOT of events for my company both during business hours and social outings. Recently I have run into a bit of trouble with some dietary restrictions for some of my coworkers. When planning food for events, I always make sure that there are substantial vegetarian items available because being a vegetarian is fairly common, and all of these foods are generally on the regular menu and able to be consumed by anyone whether they are vegetarian or not.

The wild card is that I now have someone who keeps kosher and someone who is gluten-free. Am I obligated to provide special meals for these people? If the meeting was mandatory and the food provided was the only way that they were going to be able to eat lunch that day, I’d get it…but that is generally not the case. There was a very awkward moment a month or so ago when the gluten-free person came up to me during lunch (which was a buffet before a presentation) and asked me if there was a gluten-free entree that she could eat (the lunch was sandwiches, salad, chips, etc.). I also once special ordered an expensive kosher meal to be delivered for a lunch meeting and the guy didn’t even show up to the meeting! Frustrations abound.

I am struggling because if food is provided people will come expecting to be fed…but can I really expected to remember and accommodate the dietary needs of everyone in this organization of 200+ people? I want to make everyone happy but where do I draw the line? Please tell me if I am being a grinch.

It’s not that you’re being a grinch, but I think you’re losing sight of the point of this responsibility. The point isn’t to just cross this item off your list in the way that’s easiest and fastest for you; it’s to provide food for a group of people with diverse dietary needs. And it’s also probably to use food to make people feel generally taken care of and appreciated. That means that, yes, it might end up being more complicated than just placing one straight lunch order; you might need to make special arrangements for people with different needs — but you should see that as part of the job, not an annoying distraction from the job.

Deciding not to bother to provide food that some employees can eat is a really good way to make those people feel left out or like the company doesn’t think their needs matter. But on the flip side of things, making a point of ensuring that those people have food they can eat is a pretty good way of making them feel valued and supported.

And you definitely don’t want to exclude people because of their religious needs (your kosher employee or anyone in the future who needs halal food) or health needs (the gluten-free person or any future people with allergies or other health-related food restrictions). Part of having a diverse workforce is that you’re going to have people with diverse dietary needs too, and you don’t want to signal that only the dominant culture’s eating habits are accommodated there.

So yes, if you’re charged with handling food for events, make sure you’re getting food for everyone who will be there.

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my coworkers think I’m having an affair — but I’m not

by Alison Green on June 28, 2016

A reader writes:

I recently learned that there’s a rumor at my office (a company of ~250 employees) that I am involved with a male work friend of mine. This news is extremely upsetting since there is no truth to it. While we do talk quite a bit at work, it has never “crossed the line.” We’re both happily married, don’t have romantic feelings for one another… our friendship is strictly platonic. This friend and I frequently have lunch together, but always with other friends and always in the office cafeteria. We don’t do one-on-one lunches, we’ve never left the office together, etc. His wife (who doesn’t work with us) is also a close friend of mine, but I don’t think our coworkers are aware of this.

I’m perplexed as to how this rumor started since there is no evidence supporting it. I feel strange even writing this letter because the whole thing is just so ridiculous and immature.

I don’t know who started the rumor, nor does my friend. He was given a heads-up about it from another friend of his. Immediately upon hearing it, my friend went to his manager to set the record straight. He said he wants her to know the truth in case someone comes to her about it. I doubt that was the best move, but I honestly have no idea what else to do in this situation.

What can we do, if anything, to stop this rumor in its tracks? Or do we just have to wait it out and hope it goes away? I feel like my reputation is on the line, but I refuse to stop talking to a close friend at work on account of petty gossip. This news has affected my productivity level and, frankly, made it quite difficult to come to work because I’m so disturbed by it. Please help! Do we have any recourse here?

Ugh, this is so gross. It’s one thing for someone to quietly think to themselves, “Huh, it seems like Jane and Fergus are really close,” and something entirely different to spread a rumor that you’re having an affair. There are marriages and jobs and reputations involved here, and whoever started the rumor is really in the wrong.

Practically speaking, though, I think you have a few options here.

Most obviously, you can try to stop it. This can be tricky when the gossip is essentially whispers and you don’t know the source, but you have a lead: the co-worker who tipped your friend off to the rumor. You could enlist his help in figuring out where he heard it and trace it backward from there, setting the record straight with each person in the chain and appealing to their sense of right by saying something like, “I’m obviously really concerned about the impact of this on my reputation and my marriage, and I’d appreciate your help in shutting this down.”

There’s some inherent awkwardness in doing this, so you’d have to decide if you were willing to take that on. (Keep in mind, though, that people who passed along the rumor should feel far more awkward about their side of the conversation than you do.)

You could also try thinking about how you’d spread gossip if you wanted your coworkers to know something. Do you have a colleague who always seems to know the latest gossip? That person might be an effective lever to pull in spreading correct information, too. Or you might just enlist other co-workers whom you trust: Explain to them what’s going on and ask them to go forth and shut it down wherever they hear it.

A totally different option, and one that might seem counterintuitive: You can ignore it. Often when you’re at the center of something like this, it feels like you have to figure out a course of action – but sometimes you really don’t. Sometimes you can roll your eyes and decide not to care and go about your business. Of course, this isn’t always feasible; if a rumor is affecting your marriage or your reputation or the way people treat you, you don’t have the luxury of ignoring it. But I’d seriously consider this route if none of those things seem like likely risks.

A better course might be a modified version of ignoring it. Figure out what the risks of the rumor might be, address those directly, and then commence ignoring the rest. That might mean that your friend should tell his wife about the rumor so that it doesn’t blindside her one day, and that you follow his lead and talk to your boss about it too. I know it feels really weird to approach your boss about something like this, but a short, matter-of-fact heads-up to her will probably give you some peace of mind. You could just say, “Hey, this annoying thing is happening that I don’t think I can do much about, but I don’t want you to hear this and think there’s any truth to it.”

Which of these strategies to pick really just depends on what you’re most comfortable with. But don’t let fear of awkwardness be the thing you weight most heavily here. The situation already is awkward, through no fault of yours, so to some extent this is about choosing which type of awkwardness serves your interests the best – the type that might come with ignoring the situation or the type that might come with setting the record straight.

I don’t have anything to do at my internship

A reader writes:

I’m an intern at a prominent tech company in the field I thought I wanted to go into after I graduate next spring. I’ve done research previously, but this is my first internship. I’m a few weeks in, and while I still have a couple of months left, I’m worried that I’m not going to get much out of this program or seem very impressive as a potential full-time hire.

I haven’t been assigned much work, and a lot of the work that I have been assigned I’m not really sure how to proceed with. Additionally, my manager has been in and out of the office and difficult to get a hold of. I’m paid hourly so I can’t just get my work done and leave, even if I need to wait days to hear back from my boss about something. I’ve asked him and his co-workers in my office for more, but everybody has been busy. And then I end up spending a LOT of time bored at my desk, on the internet, reading about things vaguely related to what the company does. I worry that it appears that I’m slacking off, but I am not sure what else to do.

Another aspect is that, while I don’t know if I want to work for this particular company after graduation (especially given the directionless last few weeks I’ve had), I do really want to have a good reference and the ability to talk about my contributions in interviews with other companies next year, and also put them on my résumé. Are my expectations too high? What kind of direction and/or guidance should I expect from my manager? How do you kill time in an office without seeming like it? If I’m so bored now, should I be rethinking the industry or department I want to go into? Help!

This isn’t a terribly uncommon thing with internships, even though it should be. People often bring on interns with vague ideas about what they’ll work on, without actually thinking through what those projects will be, how much time they’ll take up, and how much energy the manager will need to invest in supervising the work. In fact, I have to fess up that the first time I hired a summer intern, she finished in three weeks the list of projects that I’d thought would keep her busy the entire summer. I’m cringing looking back on it, and it definitely taught me not to hire interns without far more preparation — but yeah, it’s a thing that can happen.

That said, your expectations aren’t too high. It’s reasonable to expect that if a company hires you, they have work for you. It’s also reasonable to expect that you’ll get guidance from your manager, particularly in an internship, where the whole point is that you’re new to the workforce. So while it’s a thing that happens, it’s still a thing that shouldn’t happen, and you aren’t naïve or unrealistic for expecting that you wouldn’t be stuck watching YouTube videos all summer.

Your best chance of solving this is to schedule a meeting with your manager and talk about what’s going on. Sure, he’s not in the office much, but you can email him and say you’d like to schedule time to talk about what you should be working on. Then, in that meeting, say this: “I haven’t been assigned much work, and I’m hoping we could come up with some longer-term projects I could work on that will keep me busy much of the summer. It’s really important to me to earn a good reference here and also to come away with experience that will help me as I start to build my career. I’m not expecting glamorous work, of course; I just want to keep busy and contribute however I can.”

Ideally, this will guilt him into realizing that this has been a pretty bad internship for you so far, and he will try to remedy that. But if it doesn’t, you could try having a similar conversation with a few others in your office who seem approachable. (Don’t be intimidated by everyone seeming busy. That just means that you shouldn’t walk up to their desk and launch in, but you can email them, ask to meet, and give them a heads-up about the topic.)

Also! Try proposing your own projects. That can be a little tricky as an intern because you might not have a great vantage point yet on what would be helpful or what might be stepping on someone else’s toes, but if they’re abandoning you to your own devices, maybe there’s a problem you could try solving, a program you could write, or a project you could tackle (that they then could use or not). You’d want to run it by your boss so he can tell you if there’s some reason not to do it, but that could be as simple as “Hey, I’m going to experiment with X as a way to get some experience with this, with the understanding that it may or may not end up be something you ultimately want to use. Let me know if I shouldn’t!” Frankly, your boss is so hands-off that he might be relieved.

If none of that works, your fallback is this: a self-designed program of study for the summer. Work on coding, work on learning a new programming language, whatever makes sense in your field. That will help you stay busy without looking like you’re just slacking off, and it’ll give you something productive to describe when you talk about this internship in the future.

And don’t let this experience sour you on the whole field. This likely isn’t representative of what it would be like to work in the field full-time (witness how busy everyone else there is). This is just a terrible case of intern neglect.

Originally published at New York Magazine.

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I was fired from my internship for writing a proposal for a more flexible dress code

by Alison Green on June 28, 2016

A note about this post, which is being linked to from all over the internet: This situation is not about “young people today.” The letter-writer’s generation is far from the first to bridle at dress codes or misunderstand office culture or start out with little knowledge of how things work in offices. This is about being young and new to the work world, not about what generation they belong to. Most of us made plenty of mistakes when we first started work — I certainly did. So please go a little easier on this person.

A reader writes:

I was able to get a summer internship at a company that does work in the industry I want to work in after I graduate. Even though the division I was hired to work in doesn’t deal with clients or customers, there still was a very strict dress code. I felt the dress code was overly strict but I wasn’t going to say anything, until I noticed one of the workers always wore flat shoes that were made from a fabric other than leather, or running shoes, even though both of these things were contrary to the dress code.

I spoke with my manager about being allowed some leeway under the dress code and was told this was not possible, despite the other person being allowed to do it. I soon found out that many of the other interns felt the same way, and the ones who asked their managers about it were told the same thing as me. We decided to write a proposal stating why we should be allowed someone leeway under the dress code. We accompanied the proposal with a petition, signed by all of the interns (except for one who declined to sign it) and gave it to our managers to consider. Our proposal requested that we also be allowed to wear running shoes and non leather flats, as well as sandals (not flip-flops though) and other non-dress shoes that would fit under a more business casual dress code. It was mostly about the footwear, but we also incorporated a request that we not have to wear suits and/or blazers in favor of a more casual, but still professional dress code.

The next day, all of us who signed the petition were called into a meeting where we thought our proposal would be discussed. Instead, we were informed that due to our “unprofessional” behavior, we were being let go from our internships. We were told to hand in our ID badges and to gather our things and leave the property ASAP.

We were shocked. The proposal was written professionally like examples I have learned about in school, and our arguments were thought out and well-reasoned. We weren’t even given a chance to discuss it. The worst part is that just before the meeting ended, one of the managers told us that the worker who was allowed to disobey the dress code was a former soldier who lost her leg and was therefore given permission to wear whatever kind of shoes she could walk in. You can’t even tell, and if we had known about this we would have factored it into our argument.

I have never had a job before (I’ve always focused on school) and I was hoping to gain some experience before I graduate next year. I feel my dismissal was unfair and would like to ask them to reconsider but I’m not sure the best way to go about it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Oooooohhhh.

Firing the whole group of you was a pretty extreme reaction, but I can understand why they were highly annoyed.

Y’all were pretty out of line. You were interns there — basically guests for the summer. Their rules are their rules. This is like being a houseguest and presenting your host with a signed petition (!) to change their rules about cleaning up after yourself. You just don’t have the standing to do that.

To be clear, that doesn’t mean that you need to suck up any and every condition of an internship. You don’t. But this wasn’t something like asking you to do unsafe work or work unreasonable hours; this was asking you to abide by what sounds like a very common and reasonable professional dress code.

They presumably have that dress code because, rightly or wrongly, they’ve determined that it’s in their best interest. Sometimes these sorts of dress codes make sense (like when you’re dealing with clients who expect a certain image). Other times they don’t. But you really, really don’t have standing as interns to push back on it in such an aggressive way. And beyond standing, you don’t have enough knowledge as interns to push back so aggressively — knowledge of their context, their clients, and their culture.

What you could have done was to say, “Would you talk to us about the dress code and explain why it’s important? We’re sure we’ll run into this again in future jobs, but coming from the more casual environment of school, it’s not intuitive to us why so many businesses have formal dress codes. We’d appreciate getting a better understanding.”

But instead, you assumed you knew better (despite being in a position where the whole point is that you don’t have experience and are there to learn) and then went about it in a pretty aggressive way. A petition is … well, it’s not something you typically see at work. It signals that you think that if you get enough signatures, your company will feel pressured to act, and that’s just not how this stuff works. A company is not going to change its dress code because its interns sign a petition.

Honestly, if my summer interns banded together and this was what they decided to take on, I’d have some serious questions about their judgment and their priorities. I wouldn’t fire you for it … but I would not be impressed and we would be having a very stern conversation in which I explained the above.

The fact that they did fire all of you for it makes me wonder if there were other issues too and this pushed them over the edge. Were you getting good feedback before this, or had you noticed your manager trying to rein you in on other things? If there were other issues, I can more easily understand them just throwing up their hands and being finished with the whole thing.

In any case, I don’t think you can ask them to reconsider. What’s done is done. But it would be smart to write a letter to your manager explaining that you’ve learned from the situation and that you appreciate the opportunity they gave you and are sorry that you squandered it. They’re not likely to invite you back, but a note like that will probably soften them up a little and will mean that they don’t think so witheringly of you in the future.

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co-founder is an out-of-control jerk, interviewer told me that she’s hard to work for, and more

by Alison Green on June 28, 2016

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. Co-founder is out of control and a jerk

Our company was co-founded by a woman, her husband, and her father. The husband has historically been a general pain, but has always had good ideas to contribute (albeit rarely). We’re getting to the point where he is a total drain on the company’s resources and time, and is also rude and disrespectful to employees, which is not good for the culture. He barges into meetings regardless of the topic, completely redirects and derails large projects, and pulls people into projects that take up a majority of their time regardless of what their workload or job responsibilities are.

Our executive team (including his wife and father-in-law) is trying to find a way to get rid of him or reduce his impact without actually firing him (since that means they would have to buy him out of his shares of the company), but they and we are not having much luck thinking of how we can make that happen. There’s basically no way for anyone at the company to say no to his requests without getting berated for it. He’s known for lecturing people about how he founded the company and his “vision” when, in reality, his wife is running the show. Is there anything we can do to effectively take away his power (given that we do have the full support of the executive team)?

Well, the executive team could explicitly empower you to say no to his requests and to shut him down when he berates you (as in “I’m not willing to be talked to that way, so I’m leaving the room now”) without any negative repercussions for you, but they’d need to be 100% committed to backing you up. And people would need to believe them about that, or not everyone will do it. To help people believe they’ll be backed up, you’d probably need the wife or father-in-law to do it on people’s behalf first — meaning they’d need to find opportunities to witness him berating someone and say something like, “We can’t allow you to talk to Jane that way. Jane, please feel free to ignore this request from Fergus. Fergus, you need to leave Jane’s office now.” If they do that a few times, people may start believing that they can do it themselves.

But really, that’s a workaround. The real solution is for them to formally remove the husband’s authority over other employees (they can do that without firing him or buying him out), to announce to everyone that that’s happened and that people are not to accept assignments from him, and to be vigilant about stepping in if he continues to act as if he does have authority.

2. Interviewer told me that she’s hard to work for because her expectations are too high

I recently had an in-person interview at a large tech company. I went through an HR phone interview where I was warned the boss may be hard to work for. I then went to the in-person interview with said manager. She said in the interview that at the last two places she has worked, she has been told she is “difficult to work for.” She almost seemed proud of it and seemed to want to know that I was okay with it. I asked why she was difficult to work for, and she said her “expectations are too high.”

This is a huge red flag to me. Any thoughts here? I really need a job after being out of work for a while, but I’m worried I will be walking into a very bad situation if I am offered this job.

Yes, red flag. High expectations are good. I have high expectations. I’m sure some people think my expectations are too high, and I’m okay with that (and I disagree). But it’s the way she’s presenting this that’s the issue — that she’s proud of being told she’s hard to work for and she’s calling her own expectations “too high” rather than “high.” Plus, is she doing anything in her interviewing process to ensure that she’s only hiring people who have similarly high expectations, or is she just fine with hiring someone who she’ll then … what, constantly criticize?

Pair all that with HR’s comment about her, and I’d be pretty damn wary.

That doesn’t mean you can’t take the job if you’re in a desperate situation. You may not have other options. But if that’s the case, go in with your eyes open so that you’re not lulled into thinking she’s going to be a decent manager.

3. My sister was blacklisted from her former company over something she didn’t do

My sister used to work at one of the largest and well-known phone companies here in the UK. She was an assistant manager of a medium-sized store. She had always received glowing reviews and praise for her work. She even won an all-expenses paid ski-trip to France from the company because she placed in their Top 50 employees for sales that year in the entire company (out of tens of thousands of employees). She left her job six months ago to travel internationally. She left on great terms with her manager (who I’ll call Tyrion), her area manager, and colleagues, and two of them (including Tyrion) asked her to contact them when she returned from travelling as they said they would like to work with her again. Shortly before her last day, Tyrion moved to one of the largest stores in the company.

She returned home from her travels last week and went for coffee with her ex-colleague (Jon) to catch up. Jon told my sister that while she was away, Tyrion had suddenly been moved to a very small store in a small town after an investigation. Tyrion had been investigated for security breaches when filling out customer applications for phone contracts while employed at the store he and my sister worked at together. Jon then told my sister that Tyrion had blamed the entire situation on my sister (who was conveniently 9,000 miles away in another time zone) and as a result, my sister is now on a “Do Not Re-Employ” list and Tyrion has been allowed to keep a job (albeit a demotion) for “whistleblowing” on the “guilty” employee. To complicate matters, Jon should not know this information but was told by the new manager of my sister’s old store, and felt he owed it to my sister to tell her.

What she and I don’t understand is, how can this company conclude an investigation and put her on a blacklist without ever contacting her or interviewing her about it? Can she contact HR and ask for her file? Can she request an interview about the investigation even though she’s now an ex-employee? Regardless of whether she wanted her job back (she very much did), they have now damaged what would and should be an excellent reference, which will seriously impact her ability to find another job. Can she at least request that, as she was never interviewed or investigated personally, she is given a neutral reference? Is there anything she can do?

I can’t speak to UK law at all, so I’m giving you a U.S. perspective here. In the U.S., the employer wouldn’t be legally required to speak to a former employee as part of this kind of investigation. She could possibly request a copy of her employee file, depending on the state (some states require employers to share them upon request, and others don’t). She would, however, have recourse if the company was giving out false information about her as part of a reference; that’s defamation, and she could approach it on those grounds. But the first thing I’d advise her to do is to just get in touch with the company, explain that she heard this is happening and that the info about her is categorically false, and ask what she needs to do to have her record cleared, and particularly to make sure she’s not being defamed to former colleagues or reference checkers. If they stonewall her, I’d consider getting a lawyer to contact them.

UK law might give her additional options, though, so I’d check that first.

4. How long should you stay in an entry-level position?

I would like to know what your opinion is on how long someone should stay at an entry-level position? Seven and a half months ago, I started working at a radio station as an on-air news anchor, and announcer. I love the job, but it’s typical entry-level for the industry (part-time, work weekends, operating the board for remote broadcasts, fill in when the full-timers are sick/on vacation). I feel like I’m ready for the next step up. I get glowing reviews, and feel comfortable with the work I do. There’s no chance of promotion in the near future with my station, or its parent company. Do you think it’s too soon, or in poor taste for someone in my shoes to apply for higher positions?

This varies by industry, but in general you’d expect to stay in an entry-level job for one to two years. Seven months is generally much too early to be looking to move on.

That said, go ahead and send some applications out and see what happens. If your industry is okay with that timeframe, you’ll know because you’ll get interviews. If it’s not, you won’t.  Just make sure you’re ready to stay at the next place for at least several years.

5. Telling patients that we won’t see tourists

I work in a pediatrician’s office which happens to be in a resort area. The pediatrician’s office policy is that we will not see vacationers as patients but will refer them to an urgent care facility. How can I tactfully tell our visitors this without sounding harsh?

It sounds like your doctor doesn’t want one-offs and prefer patients who will build a relationship with the practice, which isn’t unreasonable, especially given a limited number of appointment slots. I’d say it this way: “I’m so sorry — our doctor doesn’t see short-term patients, but I can give you information for a nearby urgent care facility.”

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