open thread – July 24, 2015

by Alison Green on July 24, 2015

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue :)

{ 1,550 comments }

{ 1,550 comments… read them below }

  1. Mockingjay*

    No Meeting Minutes this week. It’s a miracle!

    And I have a phone screen set up for next week with the company that found me on LinkedIn.

    Happy, happy Friday!

    4. Gamma*

      Yay Mockingjay! Good luck with the phone screen — fingers crossed, please keep us in the loop!!

  2. Cruciatus*

    I received two offers after two interviews on Monday. Woo! I’m in demand! But I don’t feel great yet. In fact I’m feeling almost miserable. I tried to call the one person back at the job I want—she let me think about it until Friday. I called and she never answered so I emailed her asking if she could plan a time to talk. It’s nearly impossible for me to get away from my desk today and/or take a personal call (my desk is in the middle of the building and everyone could hear me talking, but I could plan a trip to my car). Anyway, I got an automatic reply back that she’s out for the day today (but she wanted an answer today!). I have her cell phone number—she said if I couldn’t reach her (when she was going to offer me the job) to call her there. Should I do that now? If she’s on vacation I don’t want to bother her, but I also want to accept already, dammit! I also wanted to just ask if there was any flexibility in the salary—I’m mostly happy with it but if I could get over the $30,000 mark I’d be even more ecstatic. We’re talking a difference of $.50-$1.00 an hour.

    By this point today I was expecting to have accepted the offer officially, turned down the other offer (also anxious about that—never had to do it before and they are already talking welcome packets and whatnot—I want to get it done before it gets too far. Note: I only said I was still interested, I never said I would absolutely take the job), and then finally tell my boss and write a letter of resignation. But NOTHING has happened at all. Nothing has moved forward and I’m getting more agitated by the hour! And my boss was just talking to me about another colleague that shocked him when he left. He probably doesn’t know what I’m planning but the guilt! It’s mounting!

    6. Retail Lifer*

      She said she wanted an asnwer today. She said it was OK to call her on her cell. Please call her! You don’t need all this stress when you should be excited!

      1. Artemesia*

        Today is the day and you need to at least take a swing a negotiating. This is your golden moment for that — once you say yes, you have no leverage at all. Call.

    7. fposte*

      Many congratulations!

      Definitely call her cell–and also realize that sometimes things just don’t move along that quickly. The only sticking point here is the other place waiting for your turndown, and I might even mention that in your message if that’s not information she has already.

    8. voluptuousfire*

      Call her and report back to let us know how it went. Also let us know how your resignation goes.

    9. Cruciatus*

      I called her cell but she wasn’t there. I left a voice mail explaining why I called her there and if she could get back in touch with me through email with a time to touch base. Hopefully it’ll be today. Otherwise do I just call on Monday? I don’t want to accept in email for some reason, though I suppose I could.

        1. Mel in HR*

          This. One thing I’ve learned from AAM is that whenever I move on to a better place, I should at least try to negotiate. I would definitely give it a shot and you need to do that over the phone. BUT I would also read into how she responds as well.

          Good Luck!

      2. Cruciatus*

        After some back and forth we finally spoke to one another. I asked about a slightly higher salary. She said it would probably not happen but she would ask on my behalf. But at least I tried (I’m still happy with the salary anyway). We will try to talk again this afternoon, at which point I hope to be able to say I ACCEPT!

    10. Honeybee*

      I’d call her cell, and if you miss her/can’t reach her, accept via email. When I couldn’t reach the recruiter via his phone to tell him I was accepting the offer, I left him a message and then sent him an email letting him know I was accepting the offer (and asking some follow-up questions I had, but my acceptance wasn’t contingent upon the questions’ answers). He called me back when he got a chance and it was absolutely fine.

      However, since you want to ask about salary flexibility that might be better to do over the phone, so yes, I’d try her cell regardless!

      I’m still dealing with the guilt of resigning my current position and accepting an offer to move, even though everyone’s been supportive. I guess we just have to plow through it? I have no suggestions in that area, lol.

      Congrats!

    11. Cruciatus*

      I have officially accepted the first offer AND got…$384 more dollars! That’s $.02 more an hour. Whoa! But you know what, it’s more than I’ve ever been able to get before so I’ll take it.

      I haven’t called the other company to turn them down yet. I didn’t want it hanging over my head all weekend but that’s just how it is. I am weirdly nervous about turning them down but surely it has to happen frequently. I just hope they aren’t too far in the process on Monday.

      And so this also means I will not tell my boss until Monday. You know, the first day our school starts. Oh, I hope that goes well too. I may have more updates for next Friday…

      1. Tau*

        Good luck! I was in a very similar position to you recently – two offers on the same day, I actually ended up turning offer #1 down before I managed to confirm offer #2 because I was worried about leaving them hanging. I was *so worried* about how they’d take it because they’d also jumped straight to start dates and relocation costs, but they were really great about it. As you say, this happens a lot. I’m sure it’ll be fine!

        Also, congratulations on the negotiation *and* on the new job!!!

      2. Mimmy*

        YAY!! I’ve been keeping an eye on this thread to see how you made out….so glad you were able to get this one squared away before the weekend. GO CELEBRATE!!!

  3. Delyssia*

    The short version of the question: how do you identify legitimate areas for improvement when you suffer from imposter syndrome?

    I’m working with a new internal client group at work, and my imposter syndrome is seriously flaring up. Every bit of feedback (not even criticism, just feedback–like: “Oh, I think we have a better picture to use there.”) has me second guessing myself like crazy. I realize that I have areas to learn in working with this new group, but I don’t want to drive myself completely insane in the process. And I don’t want to get so focused on improving minutiae that doesn’t really matter that I ignore bigger, more important areas that need improvement.

    1. Ad Astra*

      I don’t really have advice, only commiseration: I still am not sure if I suffer from imposter syndrome or if I am actually bad at working.

    2. Christy*

      I ask for large-scale feedback, particularly from my boss. He believes in “expanding your capabilities through self-sufficiency” so he’s basically telling me to figure it out myself. Basically, whenever I’m too doubtful of what I’m doing to keep doing it, I ask. Sometimes a boss, sometimes a peer.

      Actually! We have an informal peer chat weekly, and I think something like that might be a way to make sure you’re on track. Check in with your peers to see if they notice anything about you or your work that you might want to change.

        1. Christy*

          I mean, it helps in that it’s very clear what he’s interested in hearing from me. I know not to ask him “how” questions unless I’m really stuck. I know asking questions won’t help me, but trying to figure it out myself will. I’m very happy to know where he’s coming from. And with what I do, there’s a lot of self-teaching I *can* do. It’s just not always my first instinct. I’m also coming from the office where I interned, so it’s good to know what expectations are in other offices.

          1. Hlyssande*

            Ah, okay. That makes a lot more sense! I thought you were asking for feedback about your performance in general and got that in response.

            I must not have had enough caffeine yet today. :)

            1. Christy*

              That looks like I wrote, even though that’s not what I meant. I don’t think I was particularly clear (even though I was totally clear in my head)!

              1. Christy*

                How about “that looks like what I wrote”.

                And I ask for large-scale feedback because asking for help or advice on small things doesn’t seem to be his style.

                There we go! That seems clearer.

    3. GOG11*

      If there are quantifiable areas of your job, perhaps you could look to those first? For example, if you’ve spent the last six months learning about a new product and you’ve landed 3 clients, perhaps you could say you’d like to land twice as many now that you know the ropes. You don’t want to get bogged down by numbers so much that you ignore the bigger picture, but starting with them gives you an objective measure to keep you grounded. Those figures might not be available in every job, but maybe they are in yours.

      Another approach that might help would be looking at processes/policies/etc. that you know don’t work well, but you don’t know yet how to solve them. For example, a certain process takes X weeks where I work, which is fine for longer-term projects. But now, we have a new project that cycles through 4 times faster than the normal ones. One of my goals is to figure out how to make that same process happen by the time the project cycle is done. I don’t know how I’m going to do it yet, but it definitely needs done and both achieving the solution (for the company) and gaining the skills needed to look into the current process, find potential fixes, get other departments on board with those fixes (for me) will be really valuable.

    4. Lisa*

      I do this too. Mainly because I had a psycho boss that gas-lighted me into thinking I was never good enough. Even amazing performance for clients was treated with ‘was it really something we did or dumb luck?’. So I am conditioned to believe nothing is good enough and trying to determine every word of what my managers tell me. So even good feedback is not good if I’ve been told it probably had nothing to do with me or my work.

      Try to think of things in buckets. If you always split it up, but focus first on the biggest impact, you will be ok.
      – work with biggest impact toward goal
      – continuous improvements

    5. Not So NewReader*

      If you do not know understand process x, task y or recurring problem b that is not impostor syndrome. That is real. Start by figuring out what you really do not understand.

      The thing with the picture sounds like “naw, I don’t like the green shirt, I want the blue one instead.’ Personal preference, a random need to correct someone else’s work, or maybe she just used that picture last week and does not want to use it again. Who knows. I think it is okay to sometimes ask “what grabs you about this picture over that one?” So when you hit one of those blue shirt/green shirt situations, try to figure out why people are making the choices they are making. You can also use a compliment with a question- “When you do abc it always comes out well, what’s your trick here?” It’s amazing how much info you can get if you compliment people.
      Personally, I like to be a little sponge at work. I like to listen to people’s ideas and soak up the best of the best ideas. Those ideas, I make part of my own routines.

      Lastly, ease up on yourself. Make it your goal that at least once or twice a day you are going to let someone “pick the green shirt” and not your “blue shirt” and you are just going to let it ride WITHOUT questioning yourself. Just breathe.

  4. Job Hunter*

    How have you handled an ATS that requires 3 references’ information to be put in? I only have 2 because I’m early in my career but both are prior managers. I know the other options to use for references such as senior coworkers you worked closely with, but let’s just assume that there’s nobody else I can ask.

    1. Ad Astra*

      Even in jobs where the ATS doesn’t ask for reference information, and employer is probably going to want at least three references before they make an offer. I think you really need to find a third.

    2. Mints*

      Yeah, I think you need a third, even if it’s just a coworker with no management at all. Or also a professor (assuming you’re a recent grad)

    3. Jerzy*

      Do you have a former professor you could ask to be your reference? If you’re just starting out, most employers wouldn’t bat an eye at that.

    5. Anonymous Educator*

      I would say doesn’t even have to be senior. Just use a co-worker. If you have had two jobs with two managers, use those two, and then pick a co-worker from your most recent job.

      1. zora*

        but make sure they are a coworker who can speak professionally and clearly about your job performance.

    6. Mel in HR*

      3 is very standard. I would try to find a mentor that you can use. A professional who knows about your skills and whatnot. I had to do that after college as I had moved to a different state and had no local/recent references.

    7. hermit crab*

      I think you probably do have other people you can ask — besides professors/advisors like others have mentioned, what about people from volunteering, community organizations, summer jobs you had in school, etc.?

      Then again, sometimes the three references requirement really is just a software requirement and not a requirement of the organization. When I applied to grad school, I used an automated form that required three letters of recommendation, but the instructions explicitly stated that masters applicants only needed two, and I just had to put something in the form so it would let me submit. My third reference was literally Mr. Not Applicable — entered as first name “Not” and last name “Applicable”!

    8. Lady Bug*

      I’ve used business associates before. Fir example I was a buyer and I’ve used sales people I’ve dealt with, since they can speak to the quality of certain aspects of my job. That’s an option if it applies to you.

  5. Christy*

    How does one resign a non-profit board? I’m not exactly quitting in protest; I’m just less interested in the direction the group is going. I joined in September 2014 for a two year term. Am I obligated to finish out that term? I’m on the executive board too, and half of the executive board is leaving in general at the end of the calendar year. What are my obligations here?

    1. inkstainedpages*

      Talk to the board chair! No one wants a board member that is no longer committed – the chair will probably be happy to help you transition out. And good for you for recognizing it would be best to resign rather than waiting out your term.

      1. Christy*

        No one is very committed following the changes? And I don’t think there’s a big contingent of new people waiting out there to join. The chair is one of the ones resigning, and a relatively new board member will become chair in September. (Ack maybe I shouldn’t be getting into this.)

        1. inkstainedpages*

          Hmm, do they have a good system set up for recruiting new board members? If not, this is one of the risks they run by not having a good board recruitment system in place (my board does not have a good system either). It’s tough to feel like you’re deserting them when they need you since so many others are stepping off the board around the same time, but as Ashley said below, this is a common thing – when you join the board we hope you continue through your term, but it’s understandable if circumstances arise that make that not possible.

          Talk to the board chair and/or executive director and let them know that you’re worried about stepping down with so many others leaving too – if they’re in a pinch, maybe they’ll ask if you’d be willing to finish your term, but likely they will understand and have you transition out now.

    2. Ashley the Nonprofit Exec*

      Talk personally with the board chair and the executive (phone is okay), and then send an e-mail to the rest of the board. It’s really okay – people do this all the time. And frankly, if your energy/enthusiasm are low, it’s probably a good thing to do for both you and for the agency. Reasonable people will understand that not everyone on the board is equally excited about the mission and the current tasks at hand – that variation is normal.

      1. Anon369*

        I’ll disagree here with a number of the comments – a lot of people do resign mid-term, but it’s not a practice I would recommend.
        First, it does leave the other members in a lurch.
        Second, it may well reflect on you in the future with other roles – I’ve seen boards and elected positions ask if you’ve ever resigned from an officer or Board role before.
        Third, that’s what term commitments are for.
        Fourth, you have the opportunity as a Board member to be the change you want to see from the inside.
        Fifth, you may have fiduciary obligations to your donors and the like.

        The times I think resignation makes sense is where the Board is acting unethically, immorally or illegally and you aren’t able to make changes. Barring that, I’d be hesitant to recommend someone who’s resigned before.

        *Experience – recently became one of the “last men standing” on a Board when the single-employee director resigned, and all of her Board reps resigned right away. Four of us limped along for another year of our two year term, but we did what the organization needed.

    3. Simplytea*

      If you only have two months left (until September 2015) before the one year mark, I’d say wait it out until the end of the first year and then say you don’t want to continue for the second. Is this completely volunteer or contractual? I suspect answers will be different depending on the answer. Good luck!

    4. part of the machine*

      I’ve done this before. I checked the bylaws (often there are provisions that state who you need to notify), but it’s mainly the executive director and board chair. People step down for a number of reasons, you don’t have an obligation to say why, but if you do want the org to improve or are willing to work towards it, I would have a conversation with the board chair/ed first.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Definitely check the bylaws- if the bylaws are well written it will describe what to do.

    5. LPBB*

      I noticed downthread that you have an MLS…..is this non-profit library related? If so, is it going through a transition that could potentially destroy it?

    6. Not So NewReader*

      No, you do not have to stay on a board. It sounds like there are difficulties there that you don’t want explain here. This happens a lot with boards. Once you are inside a board, sometimes it is not as prestigious as the public thinks. It can be a lot of work and you can even end up spending out of pocket.

      If you are reluctant to quit, see if you can find out who the new incoming people are and try to figure if the board will change direction because of these folks.

      I presume you got asked if you wanted to be on the board. Were you doing that out of the goodness of your heart or did you join in the hopes of moving your career? If the board position is some how tied to your career then I would think very carefully before quitting.

    1. ella*

      I caught the back pocket of my jeans on a sales display and riipppppeeeedddddddd from the top of my pocket all the way to the crotch of my pants. That was fun.

    2. Kara Ayako*

      I once ripped my shirt–half the sleeve came off as I was reaching for a shelf. I didn’t have any substitutes, so I actually had to go all the way home and change.

    3. Christy*

      Does forgetting to wear a bra that day count? I just put on my thick work sweater and hoped for the best.

      2. LPBB*

        I didn’t realize how thin the fabric was of a shirt I was wearing one day until I went to the bathroom and looked in the mirror to discover you could plainly see my bright pink bra through it. I also swaddled myself in my work cardigan for the rest of the day.

        3. SnowWhite*

          OR didn’t realise what I thought was a completely opaque nude bra wasn’t as opaque as I thought and discovered when I walked into the bathroom at work.
          Strategically placed scarf for rest of the day and praying I caught it before anyone noticed.

      3. Kristen*

        I will be starting my first office job in a few weeks and y’all have taught me that I must keep a cardigan at work. And for that, I thank you.

        1. SnowWhite*

          Another one is always check your makeup in your own bathroom before you leave the house. For some reason lighting is different, I have found bedroom lighting does not always clearly show if you are orange or stripy

        2. hermit crab*

          The basic black back-of-the-desk-chair cardigan is probably the #1 most essential piece in my work wardrobe. It seems like it might not be that important, but it might be something that you end up wearing more than anything else, and it’s worth it to get a good one! I recently upgraded mine and it’s amazing how much more professional I look/feel.

          I also keep a fleece vest, some socks, and an old pair of sneakers at my desk. There is nothing like realizing that you have to stay at work all night to work on a proposal and not having any comfortable shoes to wear while you’re doing it.

          1. Christy*

            +1. I have a heavy dark grey cardigan, and it’s the best. It’s not very professional, though. I’d definitely support someone buying a nice office cardigan rather than just using the one they left in the office years ago.

          3. hermit crab*

            Oh and something else that’s awesome that I’ve recently discovered — blazers that are made out of soft sweatshirt-style material! I have a gray one that I found on deep discount at Ann Taylor (I think) and it’s fantastic. It looks enough like a regular blazer to be a step up from my standard cardigan, but it feels like I’m wearing a sweatshirt in terms of both warmth and comfort.

          4. Ad Astra*

            Yes! Though I might recommend a white or gray cardigan if you’re someone who wears navy on a regular basis.

          5. Tau*

            I wish I’d done this. I ran some errands at lunch today and it was pouring rain and it turns out my shoes are leaky. I was squelching as I walked when I got back to the office… I ended up just sitting at my desk in socks for the rest of the afternoon and hoping nobody noticed.

        3. Rowan*

          Two cardigans! One tissue-weight one for aforementioned wardrobe malfunctions and a nice warm one for when the air conditioning is arctic. I will admit that I am a compulsive overpacker and other people might find that excessive. ;)

        4. Kelly L.*

          It’s so handy. Not just for wardrobe malfunctions but for days when the air conditioner turns the place into Antarctica.

          1. Sammie*

            Speaking of—my worst wardrobe malfunction was when a make co-worker nodded at me–glanced at my chest and said, “MY it’s cold in here”…..

            I’m still embarrassed. Cardigans forever!

            2. Dinah*

              You should have stared at his crotch, put a sympathetic expression on your face, and said, “It certainly is!”

        5. Artemesia*

          Also always keep a good pair of walking shoes in the bottom drawer of your desk if you normally wear heels. My kids were both in DC on 9/11 and one of them walked 5 miles to connect with the other when they finally were able to get in touch. It reminded me that ins a crisis like a fire, blackout, terrorism, floods, any disaster the ability to be able to walk 20 miles can save your life.

        6. catsAreCool*

          I keep an extra shirt at work, just in case I spill something on the shirt I’m wearing.

      4. INFJ*

        My mother has done this. She was driving to work when she realized it, turned around to put one on, and assured her supervisor that she was late for a good reason.

    4. Sascha*

      I wore a lot of leggings as pants during my pregnancy. I work in a pretty casual office and I always wore long tunic shirts and stuff…but I probably shouldn’t do that anymore. Pants are just too hard when you’re pregnant, okay??

      1. Alston*

        I started wearing pregnancy pants when I broke both arms and couldn’t put on real pants. They were awesome and I still wear them, stretchy, no button, no forgetting to do up your fly. Win!

        1. Jerzy*

          When I was pregnant, I put off wearing maternity pants for some reason I can’t even remember now. The first day I admitted I was busting out and needed to wear them, all I remember is the absolute BLISS of comfort and me wondering why I had put it off for so long.

          2. einahpets*

            Yeah, I did that with my first.

            I am at 16 weeks now with my second, and with a combination of feeling like I am showing way earlier (I’m fairly tall so I was almost halfway through my 3rd trimester before I actually got strangers asking if I was pregnant and not just rounder in the middle — our new neighbors at the time didn’t realize I was even pregnant until a week before we came home with baby, lol), so I have totally embraced them. And maxi skirts. And my bella band, for some of the work pants I still actually want to wear but can’t.

          3. Dinah*

            Same. I thought they were totally weird looking until I actually put on a pair, then I was sad to give them up.
            According to my grandma, they didn’t sell maternity clothes back in the day. She said that most women made aprons to wear over their regular clothes (which I assume were left unbuttoned and unzipped) because making new dresses was too much trouble. I can’t even imagine…

      2. zora*

        Eh, I think all rules are suspended when you’re pregnant ;o) Having never been pregnant myself, I still give you a pass.

        1. ActCasual*

          Me too. BTW I ordered some of the Betanrand dress yoga pants mentioned last week and they are AMAZING. Plus, they have free returns – they pay return shipping and everything.

    5. nona*

      A button in the middle of my shirt came undone. I noticed at the end of the day. Not sure when it happened or who could have seen it. Paranoid about button-up shirts ever since. :(

      1. SnowWhite*

        I had to tell an interviewer that this happened in the middle of an interview for a job I really wanted. It kept happening throughout and was embarrassing for both of us.

        Poor, poor lady

    6. Jill of All Trades*

      I have a particular button-down blouse that I love and so does my seat belt – somehow on my way to work the seat belt unbuttoned the one critical button on this blouse and left my girls open to the wind. I didn’t notice until I was in the building.

      1. Beebs*

        My cross body purses do this to me all the time! I am mindful about it, but sometimes you are caught off guard

    7. Kelly L.*

      I’ve probably told both of these here before.

      1. Spilled pasta sauce ALLLLLL down my blouse. Worked at a college campus at the time, so remedied the situation by buying a school T-shirt at the bookstore and changing into it. I had been wearing a really uber-femme skirt with the blouse, so the rest of the day I was going around in this odd mismatched outfit.

      2. Accidentally wore black pants with a 2″ hole between the legs to work. Thank the gods for fortuitous wearing of black underwear.

    8. HeyNonnyNonny*

      Most of my pants had back buttons on the back pockets that kept getting caught in my desk chair, so I couldn’t stand up or move without having to reach around and disentangle my butt. Finally, they all ripped off from this, so I guess it solved itself.

    9. Amber Rose*

      Realized last week that you could really see my bra poking up under the t-shirt I had on. It’s not a very low cut shirt, just a really high up bra. Super awkward.

      Also the time I didn’t realize the cat peed on my sweater until I’d had it on a while. I’ve become fairly nose blind to the fuzz ball.

      1. MaryMary*

        One of my coworkers is running to Target at lunch because she’s pretty sure her cat peed on her sweater, but didn’t notice the smell until she was in the car on the way to work.

        1. Elizabeth West*

          I stepped in cat poo one morning on the way to work and had to take my shoe off and wash it in the sink. I didn’t notice until I got to work. GROSS

      2. JenGray*

        Cats are the worse. I know that pet hair is a fact of life when you have animals but I think my cat is shedding worse than she ever has the older she gets and I swear she knows when the dryer is done so as soon as pull clothes out and set them anywhere to fold or hang she lays on them.

      3. Izzy*

        I have read that cat pee does not smell when it is fresh, only when it is a few hours old and starts to decompose. Often you can’t see it either. I have also run into this, wearing something for a while before I smelled something. Cats were getting in baskets of clean clothes. Incentive to put them away right away!

    10. Anon for this*

      Hit submit too soon. Inspired by the poster the other day who had to staple her pants together.

      My worst one was a couple weeks after I’d gotten my nipples pierced. I hadn’t had any problems with them until I made the mistake of wearing a low cut bra with a lacy border. One of the tiny barbells got snagged in the lace and I couldn’t see to get it untangled and it KILLED! Fortunately one of my very good friends with a very good sense of humor worked there and she got me unstuck. Which is awesome because otherwise I would have ended up cutting my bra off.

      1. Mimmy*

        Inspired by the poster the other day who had to staple her pants together

        LOL – Which thread was this?

        Great post idea – I’m snort-giggling on some of these already!

      3. Anon17*

        My underwire broke at work one day (on my only flesh-colored bra), and was stabbing me. I kept going to the bathroom trying to just get it angled away from my flesh. I wanted to just pull it out, but I couldn’t get it. Finally when I got home, I cut out the underwire. I then ran to the store to get a new bra — when I got home I realized that having one cup with an underwire, and the other without leaves you looking very lopsided. I’m glad I couldn’t get it out at work :-D

    11. Muriel Heslop*

      Discovering my shirt that seemed fine at home was extremely transparent under the fluorescent lighting of my eighth-grade English classroom. Of course, my students were happy to let me know.

    12. Lore*

      I bought a vintage ribbed knit top from a costume designer’s tag sale–never been worn supposedly. Well, I guess it was old enough that the thread was rotting away. Midday I realized there was a seam rip in it and went to borrow a safety pin. The amount of twisting required to fasten the pin generated two more rips. By the time I got back to my desk the whole thing had basically disintegrated on me. Thank goodness I keep a cardigan at my desk.

      1. Kelly L.*

        Oh! I also had a shoe with a foam heel completely disintegrate on me in about 30 minutes. (I had been walking around the department grumbling about Some Inconsiderate Person who had obviously left little hunks of “dirt” all over the place. Surprise! it was me.) By the time all was said and done, one foot was flat on the ground while the other was still about 2″ up on its heel. No indecent exposure, but I did look kind of dorky.

        1. GOG11*

          I had the sole of my leather shoes fall off at work. They are a very nice pair of shoes, but I’ve had them for quite a few years and the wood parts just detached one day. Luckily I had another pair of shoes in my car.

          1. HeyNonnyNonny*

            Oh yes, this was me too! I had to glue my sole back on and shuffle verrrry slowly.

        2. lawsuited*

          My most obvious wardrobe malfunction was when I wore one nude shoe and one black shoe. The heel heights were similar enough that I didn’t notice until about 10am. There was literally nothing I could do, short of going barefoot for the day, so I just made a lot of jokes about having difficulty deciding which went better with my blouse.

    13. Mints*

      My pants ripped :X
      It was inner thigh, thunder thigh style.

      I mostly sat awkwardly and avoided walking anywhere

      1. Katie the Fed*

        Same thing happened to me. Lightweight linen pants. Inner thigh in the crotch region.

      2. oldfashionedlovesong*

        This has happened to me with multiple pairs of denim and linen pants. Gotta love them thunder thighs. Luckily I sit with my legs together!

    14. Hlyssande*

      – I had a really bad nosebleed and absolutely ruined my favorite sweaterdress (I gave up on trying to get the blood out after multiple attempts over a year, sob). The neckline was one I couldn’t wear a scarf with, so I took my hair down and tried to keep the stains covered the rest of the day.

      -My chair ripped the bottom of a pants leg off – at least 8 inches of it all around – when I was trying to get up one day. They were a little long, but the best linen blend and were so comfortable. And had pockets. UGH.

      1. Anonny*

        This sounds really gross, but your own spit will often help to get blood out of clothing. I’ve done it before, and it gets a fair amount of the stain out, though it still would need a good cleaning.

        4. Hlyssande*

          This was before I really knew how to get it out. I know now, but haven’t managed to bleed on clothes again yet.

          I did give it a good long rinse under cold water in the bathroom at work if I recall (thank goodness I always wore a tank under it), but later forgot and it got mixed up in the actual laundry. :(

          1. hermit crab*

            OK, so I came back to this thread see what other wardrobe malfunctions people had posted, and someone’s funny story made me snort with laughter, and blood came out of my nose and landed on my bedspread. It was very appropriate. And gross. Appropriately gross.

        1. Hlyssande*

          I wouldn’t say that I get them frequently, but it’s definitely a non-rare happening. At least a few times a year, with some years worse than others.

          That’s the only article of clothing I’ve ever gotten it on, though, so there’s that.

    15. Vex*

      I once saw a pair of shoes I liked so much that I bought them in both black and brown. Cue the day I absent-mindedly got dressed and put on one brown and one black shoe… and didn’t realize it until mid-afternoon. Woof.

      2. littlemoose*

        I own several pairs of shoes in both brown and black, and I am forever paranoid that I’ll do this. I often check my shoes more than once before leaving the house. I’m sure it’ll happen to me at some point anyway though.

      3. Katie the Fed*

        I was really hungover the morning of my college graduation and got dressed without the light on. I wore two different black heeled loafers – with a height difference of about 3/4 of an inch. Sigh.

      4. Gene*

        A friend just posted a PSA to not pack for a work trip in the dark, at 0300, with a photo of two shoes; both black, but obviously different. Oh yeah, both right shoes.

        1. Alston*

          Last wedding my boyfriend and I traveled to he packed two right dress shoes. He was TOTALLY going to force his left foot into one of them and wear them anyway. Fortunately we found a Good Will on the way to the ceremony and stopped that madness.

    16. Bekx*

      Somehow when I threw my toilet paper into the toilet part of it missed and caught itself in my pants. One of my coworkers noticed and I was pretty mortified. I seriously don’t even know how that happened.

    17. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I had a Very Favorite cashmere sweater that was so perfect… black, soft, short-sleeved but the right length. I wore it all the time. I had a client meeting scheduled so I wore the Perfect Sweater with a great skirt, then I got to work… and noticed a MASSIVE HOLE under my armpit. How did I not see that??? Well, I hadn’t looked at myself from the side. I kept my arm pinned to my side the whole time and freaked out over what to do, made plans to go to Lord & Taylor asap… then the meeting was cancelled. So I just walked around with my arm pinned. I hated having to toss that sweater.

    18. Also Anon*

      Got my period and it leaked through my jeans! Had nothing to put over my butt, so walked around with bloody spot all day.

      1. oldfashionedlovesong*

        I feel pretty confident saying that any woman who has a menstrual cycle and says this has never happened in her lifetime is lying :P

        1. Treena*

          Uh, no? I got my period when I was 16 and have had it for 10 years (2-4 years w/o period because of birth control). I’ve never once leaked through clothes, and I don’t have a particularly light cycle. Definitely not lying!

          1. oldfashionedlovesong*

            That was a tongue-in-cheek comment to reassure Also Anon that this has probably happened to many other women. In my teen years, my period was very irregular and I once spotted on some bed linens during a sleepover. I was absolutely mortified, but my friend’s mom was so kind and assured me that it was such a normal thing to happen, especially for a younger woman whose cycle is still normalizing. That meant a lot to me.

            But Treena, it was not my intention to be rude, and I apologize for offending you.

            1. Treena*

              Oh, not offended at all! I’m just a health educator and it’s a pet peeve of mine when people make sweeping generalizations. Everyone thinks they’re a freak and when they see something like that, it’s confirmed!

              1. oldfashionedlovesong*

                Ok, I’m glad to hear that! That’s awesome, I work in public health as well. It’s a good reminder of how something that seems innocuous to one person may read very differently to another. I wrote my comment as a jokey way to reassure the poster that she wasn’t a freak and it’s a thing that happens to everyone– and I ended up making a generalization anyway.

          2. Kelly*

            I had to go home sick recently during my period because I didn’t have any extra clothes to wear. I only came in because we are short staffed during the summers, when I should have called in because of a rather heavy flow and cramping. I leaked blood onto my black pants.

        2. Nervous Driver*

          That actually has not happened to me since I was 13….however I still do have sleeping incidents and stained many bedsheets ugh. I’ve realized that the only thing that can fix this is doubling up on protection which sucks but eh what else can you do.

      2. Algae*

        I had that happen. It was the first period after a baby, so it was super strong. I ended up going home because it. wasn’t. stopping.

        I got an ablation shortly after that and haven’t had a period since then. (knock wood)

        1. Sara*

          Same – sophomore year of high school. It was MASSIVE. I swear that I haven’t bled that much in one day since then.

      4. Renee*

        Perimenopause did that to me. I would have crazy floods for a couple of hours every cycle that could not be stemmed by any product. I had a major gusher at work and I actually told my boss I was sick and went home. I work at a manufacturing company that was 80% male, and even as much as I think men need to toughen up about it, I couldn’t bring myself to walk around with visibly blood soaked pants for the rest of the day.

        1. Tau*

          Eep, that sucks. I am nowhere near menopause but have been having similar issues due to a health problem – let’s just say I didn’t realise it’s possible to bleed so heavily you can’t leave your house until recently. (Also, the spells of dizziness + complete destruction of my fitness and stamina from blood loss every cycle, last month joined by actual fainting. Fun times.) At least I was still job-hunting during the worst of it. Trying to arrange interviews with that going on was bad enough, I shudder to think what working full-time would have been like… strongly hope I won’t find out.

          1. Renee*

            That’s a bummer. I hope they’re able to address that for you. I was chronically low-iron too. I’m not getting my cycle much anymore and I’m on hormones so my problem has mostly resolved.

        2. Not So NewReader*

          Perimenopause yanked me around pretty good but not as bad as what you describe here. It was enough to keep me worried all day at work. Some days I could not keep track of things because of worry/run to the bathroom/worry/run to the bathroom loop that I was stuck in.

          The ironic thing was the one red stain I had was actually red paint that I had managed to sit on. I went home and changed in total disbelief that after being so careful paint got me.

      5. Vancouver Reader*

        I did one better than you. I had on a white matching top and skirt with coloured stripes (so there was a fair bit of white) and I leaked through and had to walk to the bus stop after work. I didn’t notice until I got home.

        Another time, I had to change into a pair of leggings I had thankfully left at work, and fortunately, that workplace was very casual, so no one batted an eye.

      6. Still So Anonymous*

        This happened to me as a freshman in high school. Wearing cream colored pants. My dad had to come pick me up from school because in addition to the humiliation, I had such terrible cramps I was throwing up. Ugh

      7. Felicia*

        At least you didn’t also get it on your chair and had it stain (which is what happened to me!)

    19. Jennifer*

      My skirt fell off in front of my boss, but I was wearing leggings so nobody saw anything.

    20. some1*

      I took the bus to work in the winter and forgot to bring shoes in my bag and had to wear my snow boots all day like Napoleon Dynamite.

      1. MaryMary*

        I’ve done this. I did it deliberately one of the days it was -20 outside and our office was barely 50 degree.

        1. Elizabeth West*

          I wore coveralls all day at the front desk one winter day at Exjob. It was oh-hell-no cold outside and people kept opening the doors and freezing me out.

      2. Gamma*

        I did this – purple rain boots with pale blue cloud-shaped dots — to a meeting of the Board of Directors. sigh

    21. Retail Lifer*

      I split the seam of my pants (butt area) at work once. I was INCREDIBLY lucky to work in a department store with an alterations department at the time. I weighed about 20 pounds less than I do now but boy, did I have a fat complex that day.

      1. Cordelia Naismith*

        Not a wardrobe malfunction, but one time I leaned back in a chair at work…and the chair broke. It was a cheap plastic thing on its last legs (literally!), but I have never been more embarrassed or self-conscious about my weight than that day.

    22. some1*

      I used to buy cheaper dress pants from the Juniors section. I had more than one pant seam come undone and didn’t have a safety pin and had to staple it.

      1. GOG11*

        I buy my dress pants in the juniors section because I have a very short torso (but long legs, so petites are out for me) and the lower rise pants fit me like normal dress pants would fit many other women. I have yet to rip a hole in my pants, and I’m keeping my fingers crossed that it won’t happen anytime soon.

    23. Gene*

      Not to me, but to the coworker for whom I’ve been in two of her weddings.

      We would spend all day driving around in our early-80s Chevy station wagon, sampling and inspecting industrial users, responding to plugged sewer calls, and finding shady spots to sit and do paperwork. I would describe her as always a bit fidgety, but that day she was squirmy, just could not sit still. Finally, at the end of the day when I dropped her off at the women’s lockers so she could change for her bus ride home, I saw the problem as she was walking away. The left side of her rental uniform pants was the correct size, but the right side was about 2 sizes smaller, squeezing her whole butt to the left. It would have made a great picture, but this was back when film ruled, and one didn’t have a camera in one’s pocket all the time. I did call her back to let her know what was going on, then laughed all the way home.

    24. Lucky*

      I’ve got a great story, but it’s a long one.
      Okay, so I was a law clerk for a trial court judge, and all the judges would cycle through the various rotations (juvenile, family, civil and criminal). A daily calendar during criminal rotation included in-custody hearings – a video streaming set up allowed the defendant and his/her attorney to appear from jail, with the prosecutor, judge and court staff in the courtroom.
      It was a quick-and-dirty calendar with 75-100 files that I had to prep on the bench. One day, as I was arranging the files, the printed calendar, my judge’s preferred pens, etc., I heard someone clearing her throat. I looked up and saw a blurry image on the video monitor. As I stepped back, I realized that in my rush to get things prepped, I had leaned over the video camera lens in a way that angled it at and then into my cleavage, transmitting that image directly into the hearing room in the jail, for the delight of all the defendants in their red jumpsuits, the same shade of red that I quickly turned.

      So, do I win a prize?

      1. Emmie*

        Yes, you do!
        When I was a law student I wore my favorite burnt orange business suit jacket to do jail visits and prisoners at an ICE detention facility. I picked this jacket because it had a high collar covering my body, and would cover my chest. When the detainees arrived, I realized my conservative jacket was the same color as many of their prison jumpsuits. In my desire to be overly conservative, I never thought I’d match the detainees. Note to self: never wear orange to jail as an attorney, which I’ve followed.

    25. LizB*

      I was going to be outside for a work event and the forecast called for rain, so I grabbed my raincoat off the extremely messy floor of my bedroom and shoved it into my bag. Put it on at the event when the rain started and stood around talking to clients and coworkers for about ten minutes before another coworker pointed out that a pair of my underwear that was exactly the same color as the coat was stuck to the velcro in the front. Whoops!

      2. inkstainedpages*

        Not work related, but one time in high school, one of my friends found her little sister’s Barbie clothes velcro-ed to the inside of her shirt. They had apparently gone through the laundry together and gotten stuck in there.

    26. littlemoose*

      Just a couple of weeks ago, I wore a red blazer over a cream-colored top. Well, it was hot that day, and I took off the blazer in the afternoon. When I got home that evening, I discovered that the red dye from the blazer had bled onto the armpits of the cream top from where I had sweated. :/

      1. Career Counselorette*

        No shame- I wore a pair of white pants a couple of weeks ago when it was like 90 degrees, and at the end of the day I realized that I’d had swamp ass so bad I actually sweated through the pants and there was this horrible yellowish outline right in the crotch. Everyone probably thought I’d pissed all over myself.

        1. Sascha*

          This is why I never wear light colored bottoms. My offices are so poorly temperature controlled I always have swamp ass. The struggle is real!

        2. littlemoose*

          I will never wear white pants for just that reason. I’m a champion sweater and am all too familiar with the dreaded swamp ass.

        3. Ad Astra*

          I don’t know how so many people manage to wear white/light bottoms without sweating through them or staining them all to hell. The lightest I’m prepared to go is a medium khaki.

        4. Mimmy*

          Even without thinking about swamp a**, I always try to wear white underwear with white pants–or even nude color–I figure that other colors might be visible.

      2. Elizabeth West*

        Oh ugh! I hate that! I borrowed a cheap red purse from my auntie in London, and it rubbed dye off onto a white t-shirt and ruined it. My fault, I guess–I should learn not to wear white at all when traveling.

    27. Felicia*

      Once i was wearing a white dress with blue polka dots, plus a blue cardigan. In my home, which is a basement apartment, which i thought was well lit, it was 100% work appropriate and looked nice. When i got to work, under work lighting, it was see through, and everyone could see my underwear.

      Also tied for worst, luckily at a different job. I was wearing kind of beige-ish pants, and I got my period unexpectedly, and bled through my pants, and onto my seat. I didn’t realize it was on my seat until the next day and my coworker pointed it out. At this job a different time , I also spent all day at work with my shirt on backwards and I didn’t notice.

      1. Kelly L.*

        Oh! I once wore my shirt inside out to work. It was one of those where the tag info is printed on the shirt, so I didn’t notice.

    28. Bangs not Fringe*

      My cup exploded cranberry juice all over a white linen shirt (and my desk)… my coworker found me in the bathroom in my undershirt rinsing it out in the sink. I didn’t want the stains to set in and lose the shirt.

      1. Alston*

        I forgot my shirt once.. At home I’ve got a habit of just going around in my bra, and I pull a sweatshirt on if I have to go to the door or whatever. Was running late one day, threw on a heavy sweatshirt and winter coat and ran out the door. Outside was fine but my office was always roasting so I was stuck in my ratty sweatshirt all day trying not to die of a heat stroke.

        1. Angelfish*

          I did something similar in elementary school, though I only realized it when I got home, took off my sweatshirt and saw I was still wearing my nightgown underneath.

        2. Sophiabrooks*

          I forgot to wear bottoms once- I had a floor length down coat and got to work wearing tights, a turtleneck and sweater. Luckily, it was my weekend job doing theatre costumes, so I was actually able to find a skirt before my students got there!

    29. AndersonDarling*

      I was returning with a tray of Starbucks and spilled them all on my full length georgette silk skirt. The fabric was thin so it was soaked through and was sticking to my legs. I was working in fashion development so I was able to get a pair of “damaged” pants to wear the rest of the day.
      Funny part was that I had ordered one of those mini juice jugs, so I still got to have my drink.

      1. Jill of All Trades*

        So I had this co-irker once (Cersei) who came back from lunch with Shae laughing uncontrollably. They finally managed to tell me that when they were walking back in from lunch Shae noticed that Cersei’s skirt had ripped and said “oooh, girl, I can see your whole butt!”. I mentioned that I’d thought they were going to say that she’d tucked the skirt into her underwear. Cersei then goes to the ladies room and comes out – as she’s walking along the corridor a woman in payroll stopped her to tell her that she’d tucked her skirt into her underwear.

        She had the nerve to blame me because I’d “jinxed” her. I think that I would have been quadruple sure to check myself before leaving the restroom, and I only wish I had that much power to jinx someone. I wasn’t a fan of Cersei.

        2. Delyssia*

          Wait, doesn’t everyone quadruple check anyway? I mean, you have the experience of tucking your skirt into your underwear once or twice, and then you swear it will NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN. I wear skirts/dresses 80% of the time at work (I wear jeans on Fridays), and when I’m leaving the restroom, if I can’t actually feel the skirt against the back of my legs (either because it flares out enough or because I’m wearing leggings or heavy tights), I will smooth my hands over the back of the skirt to make sure it’s where it should be.

          1. Jill of All Trades*

            I’ve actually had a life-long paranoia about this, and there was one time that I forgot to quad check before leaving the stall, and I still found on the final door check, so I’ve never actually had the walk of show and tell. Cersei apparently never checked? She couldn’t have – I basically reminded her right before and she still didn’t check!

    31. Seal*

      Not sure if this counts as a wardrobe malfunction per se, but definitely a malfunction at a work-related event. My reading glasses (the kind you get at the drug store) once fell apart 10 minutes before I was scheduled to do a presentation. Naturally I didn’t have a second pair and I couldn’t read my notes without them. Fortunately we were able to scrounge up a twist tie to secure the bow to the frame so I could wear them, albeit looking like a total geek.

      These days I either make sure I have a second pair of reading glasses with me, or print my notes with an 18 point font.

    33. Algae*

      I was wearing heeled boots and indulging in my bad habit of leaning back on the heel part when one of the heels just snapped off and I fell over.

      I was talking the the Safety Coordinator at the time. He proceeded to lecture me on why wearing high heels is a bad idea.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        I leaned back to stretch once while talking to an attractive guy at this one job and fell over backward. We ended up dating/living together for nearly five years. He never stopped teasing me about it, either. >_<

    34. MaryMary*

      One of my bra straps broke. In lieu of spending the rest of the day being lopsided, I took a stapler to the ladies room and stapled by bra back together.

    35. Amanda*

      Years ago I worked as a hostess/server in a restaurant. I was working as a hostess on what should have been a super slow day but we were slammed so I started waiting tables. Our hostess uniform was white button up shirt, black skirt. As I was trying to squeeze between the chairs and the booths behind them while collecting payments from a large unpleasant group of people my shirt snagged on a coat hook that was on the end of a booth, ripping the shirt wide open and causing all my buttons to pop off… I was scheduled to wait tables that night and had my server uniform at work with me, so I ran off to change and then finished dealing with the checks – the guests were jerks, they were mad that I had changed my shirt before giving them change for their bills and didn’t even tip. Ugh!

      1. Still So Anonymous*

        Wow. I think everyone should be mandated to wait tables or be in some other heavily customer service oriented position when they start out in the work world. Maybe they wouldn’t treat service people so poorly. Some people are such jerks.

    36. LCL*

      Driving to work one swingshift afternoon, I spilled a 12 ounce latte into my lap. The whole latte. Luckily I was able to stop at a department store and buy a pair of jeans and change. Unluckily I didn’t have any extra shirt or jacket with me so I didn’t have anything to tie around my waist so had to go into the store all soggy, in very faded denim the spot was obvious. The cashier didn’t make eye contact with me and I totally understand.

    37. Jen RO*

      Sat on my dress and ripped off a strap. (One of my coworkers got a needle and thread from the cleaning lady and sewed it back on!)

    39. Colorado Girl*

      My husband grows a little bit of weed (yay for Colorado and our progressive laws!) and I once went to work with part of a very recognizable leaf attached to the back of the sleeve of my sweater. I went at least a couple of hours before a friend pointed it out.

    40. Victoria, Please*

      Not a single wardrobe malfunction story from a guy? Or are y’all just keeping quiet?

      –Long indian village style skirt, worn with snappy black sandals. Which broke. Leaving me having to wear *trainers* with little sockies all day. Frump. Tas. Tic.

      2. Kelly L.*

        Their clothes are made better, I swear! If I didn’t have (specific figure traits redacted), I’d be all over the men’s department.

        1. Nashira*

          Men’s wear does seem to genuinely be made better. I can wear both men’s and women’s clothing, and typically my men’s pants last longer. The shirts sure do – I have work-appropriate polos that are five years old, whereas I only have one woman’s shirt that I expect to last that long. It cost twice as much as the polos did.

      3. some1*

        Once I saw a guy who had forgotten to take the designers label that comes on the sleeve of men’s sport coats

        1. GOG11*

          Those are supposed to come off? I have a wool winter coat and I think it might still be on there… I’m not fancy enough for fanciness.

        2. Bangs not Fringe*

          This is like when I see people who don’t cut the little stitches on their skirt’s kick pleat or their jacket’s vent. I want to help them.

          1. GOG11*

            I remember to cut those because it’s hard to walk when those are intact. The tag doesn’t impact the function of the jacket, so I didn’t know why it wasn’t there if not for people to see it…I mean, really, why is it there?

            1. GOG11*

              The question is rhetorical…I just realized that it might sound like I’m interrogating you, Bangs not Fringe, but that’s not my intention.

      4. Moss*

        My husband has weekly wardrobe malfunctions. My favorite one has to be the time he was taking our baby to day care on his way to work. The baby hiccupped and vomited milk all over one shoulder, while almost at the same time a bird flying overhead crapped on his other shoulder. The day care staff thought it was hilarious.

        1. Jill of All Trades*

          Good Lord! OK, I was totally laughing out loud at my desk. Poor guy. Maybe he should have bought a lottery ticket or something with odds like those?

      5. MaryMary*

        One of my former managers got dressed in the dark one early morning and put on his wife’s pants instead of his. He’d been at work a while before he realized why his panta felt like they didn’t quite fit.

    41. Elizabeth West*

      Once, at a newish job, I messed up and the gruff coworker whom it affected caught me on the way to the loo to scold me. I said I got it, thanks, please excuse me, and ran into the loo because I REALLY had to go. I was trying to hurry so I could go back out and fix the mistake, but when I turned on the faucet to wash my hands, the water sprayed out all over the crotch of my pants. UGH. I dried off as best I could but I still had to go back to my desk all damp. I’m sure everyone thought I actually peed myself.

      Another time, I upended a water bottle into my lap (same job) . At least my coworkers actually saw that one. :P

      1. Still So Anonymous*

        I’m so in solidarity with you right now! I can’t go two hours without dumping most of my lunch and part of my drink all over myself.

    42. Merry and Bright*

      Two come to mind:

      I wore odd shoes and didn’t notice until I was in the lift of my office building.

      The other one was where the strap of my shoe suddenly came apart. I ended up using the industrial stapler to fix it until I got home.

      Wherever I work I now always keep an emergency pair of black low-heel shoes in my desk or locker.

    43. BeaW*

      Not me, but a co-worker’s dress was rumpled and bunched up in the back from sitting. She she stood up and was leaned over to work on something you could see her panties. My boss happened to be walking by and quietly adjusted the back of my co-worker’s dress then kept on walking. Not sure my co-worker was ever aware!

    44. TheExchequer*

      You mean other than the time I didn’t realize my pants had split until I was home? How about the time I forgot to put on deodorant? Or the time I thought taking my shoes off in an office was perfectly acceptable even though it was hot and I was sweaty? (Gee, I wonder why that place didn’t hire me permanently). Cringing so hard now.

      1. GOG11*

        I forgot deodorant one too many times and now I just keep a stick of deodorant in my desk.

        1. littlemoose*

          I keep a travel-sized stick of deodorant in my work bag at all times, not just summer.

      2. Ad Astra*

        I’ve forgotten to put on deodorant once or twice, and I’ve forgotten to brush my teeth once or twice, and I’m just grateful I didn’t forget both of those on the same day.

    45. zora*

      I feel like I’ve had at least one that I’m blocking out because I just can’t think of one. But I did realize once when putting clothes in the closet, that a pencil skirt I had already worn to important work meetings a few times still had the vent stitched closed. And this after I’d commented several times on the internet about checking to make sure you’ve removed those stitches before wearing an item, and even pointed out the same thing to a colleague about their suit jacket. Felt like such a doofus.

      1. Anx*

        I bought a new shirt before a recent interview and left the size sticker on it. It was a patterned shirt so i didn’t notice it at first. I had worn a cardigan anyway and checked my complete outfit too. There was also a downpour that day and i didn’t have an umbrella so my number 1 priority was staying dry.

        But i did wear that shirt after the interview on its on with the sticker on and didn’t notice either. Neither did my boyfriend

    46. louise*

      I had a temp job covering for someone’s maternity leave when I was 23. One day the boss and I left to scope out some property the department was thinking of acquiring. When we returned, AFTER I walked past several dozen people, I realized the cute big buckle at the waist of my pants* had come undone and was hanging down and flapping with every step. I promise, it really was just a field trip and no hanky panky–but I always wondered if other people noticed and wondered what the boss was up to with the temp worker!

      *I never bought pants in the juniors’ section again. Too risky.

    47. Nashira*

      I was eating a warm croissant filled with chocolate and frangipane, and it gooshed all down my front when I bit into it.

      Twice.

      1. OhNo*

        I did that with a frosting-filled cupcake. Being the incorrigible person that I am, I immediately did what I would do at home: pulled the front of the shirt away from my body and licked the frosting off it.

        Yeah, my coworkers still tease me about that one. I’m pretty sure I’ll be hearing about it forever.

    48. Scotty_Smalls*

      I worked in a freezing cold library and had worn a thin shirt and bra and forgot a cardigan. I didn’t notice the problem until midway through the shift. Luckily my boss always kept an extra cardigan that I was allowed to wear if it got too cold for me. The awkward thing is I was going to church right after work. Luckily they don’t keep the church that cold.

      1. Carmen Sandiego JD*

        1) I had a pair of H&M shoes that got really worn b/c of a torrential downpour, the same day as an in-person interview. During my lunch break (had a gig at the time) my right shoe broke apart completely, edges/sole and I ran into CVS to stitch it up. (It stayed intact till post-interview, but didn’t get the job, unsurprisingly, lol)
        2) While crossing the street on a separate occasion, my flip-flop strap came completely undone and I was forced to use rubber bands to strap it together while lopping along luckily to a grocery store that sold stylish shoes…

        (I walk a lot in the city, which means most of my casual shoes are quite worn…)

        1. TootsNYC*

          And that’s why NYers used to wear sneakers on the street. It’s faded out quite a bit since I first moved here.

          I once went barefoot when it was pouring, because I only had my good shoes and I didn’t want to ruin them.

    49. HR Noob*

      Ugh, so many, all in my first job.

      Once I spilled coffee all over my white shirt before I even got to work. Took it off in the bathroom and washed it, then spent the rest of my day wearing a hoodie zipped all the way up while my shirt dried on the radiator. You know, like a classy adult.

      There was the time my thunder thighs ripped a giant hole in my pants. Thank God it was 4:30 pm and I had yoga pants in my bag.

      Worst of all was the time I forgot we had an event at the Supreme Court and showed up for work in a pink sweater and khakis. It would have been embarrassing enough if I’d been sent home to change, but my manager at the time let me work the first part of the event, had someone else send me home halfway through, and told me the next day that my outfit had been inappropriate.

    50. Amber T*

      This literally happened two days ago… I found a very cute skirt in the back of my closet that I loved and had completely forgotten about after I moved – white with black and pink flowers. It’s a perfect, work appropriate length, and with a black blouse and cardigan it’s a very nice work outfit. Now, most of my unmentionables are very plain… black, white, beige, I don’t get fancy. But it’s nearing laundry day, and pickings are slim, so I went with the lime green undies I had once bought on a whim. Didn’t notice that you could see lime green (with black wording on the butt, no less!) through the white skirt until I was several hours into work, and by then, there was nothing I could do about it. No one has said anything to me, but that doesn’t mean nobody noticed…

      I have another longer skirt (passed the knees) that has a nude slip and a patterned sheer part over it. Still not quite how this physically works, but I managed to put in on inside out with the sheer part still over the nude slip. Luckily a coworker pointed it out to me early in the day before I saw too many people.

      I’ve walked out of the bathroom with my skirt tucked in my undies. Frantically I undid it in the (thankfully empty) hallway, but anyone who passed definitely got a preview of my junk in the trunk.

      Note to self: Stop wearing skirts!!

    51. Nerdling*

      I had to think about this…

      Most recently, I went to the gym before work and realized, after working out, that the only shoes I had packed were the flip flops I wore in the shower. So I wore flip flops to work instead of nice dress shoes or my gross sneakers.

      Working in DC, I generally wore sneakers or flats to work and then switched into heels. This meant that I kept a lot of my good heels under my desk at the office. Which was all well and good until the day I had to go to a series of meetings that started about 6:30 in the morning at our main office across town. I was forced to break out my oldest but most beloved pair of black heels. Which of course broke on the way into the meeting. Once the meetings were over, I put on my sneakers to walk back to my office and sadly deposited my heels in a trash can somewhere along Pennsylvania Avenue.

    52. Liane*

      I used to be a microbiology lab tech in the medical device industry. Part of my duties included going into the production areas to do sampling. These were bio-clean rooms, so you wore lab-style coats, booties, gloves & caps. With your hair under the cap.
      One day my supervisor, a very good & cool boss, came to me & said, “Someone told us that yesterday, part of your hair was out of your cap while you were sampling. So I have to talk to you about it and this is the talk.” Both Boss and I were of the opinion that it would have been much better for the products if someone had said, “Hey, Liane, your hair’s coming out of the cap – get to the gown room & fix it ASAP,” then reported it, if they really thought more than telling me was necessary.

    53. LawPancake*

      My gel bra started leaking during a meeting with maybe 20+ department heads. I didn’t feel it at all but when I hit the restroom after the meeting there was a large wet circle on my blouse. Mortifying.

    54. Kiltie*

      Not actually work-related, but I think it’s an amusing story anyway. In college, I was in the marching band – the quirky “Kiltie Band”, who wore kilts as part of the uniform. “The band without pants”, we called ourselves. My very first football game with them, as a freshman, was an away game, so naturally we had to bring all of our stuff with us. So I’m in the bus before the game, getting into my uniform… and I don’t have my kilt. I look everywhere. No kilt. I had assumed, when I grabbed my uniform, that all of the parts were on the same hanger. Not so. It’s my first game, and I’m kiltless. I had to go out on the field as the only member of the band without pants… wearing pants.

    55. Cath in Canada*

      Nothing really big, but lots of small ones – I cycle to work and then shower and change, so I don’t put on the whole ensemble until I get here. I’ve had a few instances of boots that don’t match my trousers (I have 3 pairs of boots that are really similar except for the colour, and the light in my closet isn’t very good), and a few instances of bras that are unexpectedly visible under my shirt. But the worst was when I thought I’d brought my pale blue t-shirt with a lovely squid graphic on it, but had actually brought my pale blue t-shirt my friends made me for my hen night. It had my name, the date, a martini glass, and “end of an era” on it – could have been worse, but still not suitable for the office! I wore the t-shirt I’d cycled to work in for the first hour until a nearby clothing store opened at 10, then bought the first thing I found that fit me.

      Oh and once I accidentally wore a cords/boots combo that made me go “swoosh – click – swoosh – click” with every step. I have a hard enough time coordinating by colour, let alone by sound! :D

    56. Nervous Accountant*

      I’m sure ther’es many over the years, but the most recent one:

      Bought this long maxi dress to wear during the summer. I wore it to work on a Friday and my bra was too lazy and thin and the AC was on and….yeah.
      I wore it the next day (on a Saturday) with a light sweater over, and better bra.
      Wore it the third day (yes I wore it 3 days in a row) to a friends picnic….by the end of the third day, in near darkness mind you, someone tells me that they could make out what kind of underwear I was wearing.

    57. Anx*

      This isn’t so much of a malfunction, but I’ve taken my bra off twice at work.

      I was a restaurant server in an indoor/outdoor restaurant and I wore sports bras fairly often since they could be machine washed more easily and were genreally better for the job. Only problem is that I find them really tight, even larges, and i can’t keep scaling up because I am flat chested (but wide ribbed). Sometimes I’d have trouble breathing and have to take them off in the bathroom. Fortunately our shirts were thick and black (and I almost always had an undershirt).

    58. So Anonymous*

      I borrowed a friend’s skirt suit to wear to an interview. The skirt was one of those with the little hook at the top of the zipper, and she was slightly smaller than me so I left that unclasped and just zipped it up. This was for a very male dominated public/civil service type of job, so faux pas #1, should have worn pants. Anyway, I fumbled my way thru the interview – insert bomb falling noise – and as one of the male interviewers was walking me back out to the reception area, I felt something sliding over my feet. He turned around to walk back, I looked down, and discovered my skirt On.The. Floor. Luckily the jacket was mid-thigh length, but this was almost 20 years ago and I still cringe.

    59. Catherine*

      I have SO many of these stories, its ridiculous. How could I not reply to this?? A small sampling:

      Forgot to wear shoes to work. I guess I was having a super absent minded morning because I literally drove the entire way to work before I realized as I was getting it of the car that I had NO shoes on whatsoever.

      Buttoned the top clasp of my skirt and didn’t zip it. The person I was interviewing that morning alerted me to this fact as she was following me towards the office. I was wearing a bright pink thong. Oh god. (By the way, she got the job)

      Had my nipples pierced. They were still healing and I guess something snagged because one bled on my white blouse. Thank you for saving the day, work cardigan!

      Spilled hot chocolate everywhere. EVERYWHERE. As I was filling the cup with hot water, it splashed on my hand and burned me. I jumped, and the cup of hot chocolate went all over my hair, face, shirt, skirt, shoes. Had to go all the way home and shower + change.

      And the piece de resistance:

      Threw up all over myself. After I told my boss I was pregnant at lunch, he was beside himself worrying. On the way back (in his brand new expensive luxury car that he had just gotten that week) I kept asking him to pull over because I was sick but he was so wound up he didn’t really hear me. Threw up all over the car and myself as we were pulling into the executive parking deck, where all the executives had just returned from lunch and saw the whole thing. Boss wasn’t sure how to help so he gave me a shirt from the back seat to clean up with. His dirty workout shirt from that morning. This did not help and I threw up even more. Through my tears (yes! A tear-worthy moment!!) I told him I would get him a new shirt. He asked if I could just clean and return it because it was his lucky shirt he had had since college. 5 years later and this is still so, so deeply embarrassing!!

    60. Anonymousaur*

      I may or may not have accidentally forgot to wear underwear once. And I do mean forgot – this was not intentional. I realized it halfway to the subway (which is a bit of a trek from my apartment), but I was running late and didn’t have time to run back home.

      1. Anonymousaur*

        Oh, also…
        One time a knocked a 20oz open bottle of lemonade across the desk and all over myself and a coworker (and the floor). Got to spend the rest of the day sticky.

  7. Mr. Manners*

    I’m looking for some etiquette support. I have a coworker in my small department (9 people) coming back next week from weight loss surgery and I want to make sure I handle it correctly. Demographics (which I feel are important in this situation): I’m a 31 year old gay male, she’s an early 50s woman. We are a pretty personal team but I feel weird commenting on her body by saying she looks great. Should I just stick with “welcome back, I hope you’re feeling well” and “we missed you around here?” Or because she had weight loss surgery am I an ass for not saying how great she looks (which is what I imagine the rest of my department will say but they’re all women)? Thanks for everybody’s help!

    2. Sadsack*

      I think your suggestions are thoughtful and safe. You can gauge whether to say more based on her response.

    4. Persephone Mulberry*

      Unless she’s been out for months, it’s unlikely there will be an immediately noticeable difference in her weight at this point anyway. Stick with “welcome back, we missed you.”

    5. Ashley the Nonprofit Exec*

      I think you are on the right track there – I always try to avoid commenting on people’s bodies unless the context is there to say something very benign. For example, if they say “I’m doing well – I’m not as tired as I was last week” then you can say “Well, you look great and I’m glad you’re feeling better”.

      1. Erin*

        +1

        I was trying to think of a way to say this. “You look great” should only be said if she prompts it in some way like in the above example. Otherwise I would stick to, “Welcome back, you were missed around here.”

    7. Ambee*

      I hope it’s ok to link to other advice columnists here. This comment discussion might help you. http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/style/wp/2015/03/27/hax-philes-losing-weight-gaining-attention/

      My reaction would depend on how close I am to the person. If we’re friends and she’s talked about the surgery a lot, I’d ask her how she’s doing and say “I’m so glad you’re feeling great!” or “I’m so glad you’re happy with the results” or whatever is appropriate. If she talked about her appearance a lot I’d probably add “you look wonderful.”

      If she’s a casual co-worker that I didn’t interact with much, I wouldn’t mention it unless she brought it up and then I’d take my cues from her attitude. “Welcome back,” or “You were missed around here!” sound like considerate things to say.

      1. Mr. Manners*

        I interact with her fairly often but I’m definitely the least close with her compared to everyone else in my department. I feel like she’d want the compliments but I am going to play it safe.

    8. Ad Astra*

      I say focus your comments on how glad you are to have her back, and maybe ask how she’s feeling. If it were me, I’d resent comments about my appearance after bariatric surgery because the surgery is meant to improve my health, not my appearance, and coworkers are the last people I’d want evaluating how my body looks. Your coworker might or might not feel the way I do, but she will certainly appreciate your concern for her health and excitement about her return.

    9. ella*

      I’m a woman, though not a very overweight one. Personally, I would prefer things in the realm of hope you’re well/we missed you. If you notice an attitude change, I think observations that she seems happier (if that’s true) are okay too. IF you gave her compliments on her appearance before her surgery then I think you can continue to do so, but I think to say she looks great now if you never said it before has the potential for implying that she didn’t look great before (she may hear it that way, even if you don’t mean it that way). I have an acquaintance who recently lost over 100 lbs and I try to keep my comments on his attitude and perceived happiness, because it’s really all one and the same to me if he weighs 200 lbs or 350.

      FWIW, I would prefer my female co-workers not comment on my appearance either, but that’s me. I dunno if that helps?

    10. oldfashionedlovesong*

      I think either or both of your ideas are your best option. They’re kind things to say and cross no boundaries. The rest of the women might comment on the weight loss, and that may or may not be okay with her, but I think you’re on the money that it might feel different coming from a man.

      As a fat person, generally speaking, if I want to discuss my weight or weight loss with someone, I prefer to be the one to bring it up in all cases– whether that’s with men, women, coworkers, family, etc. So if she does mention it to you (I can’t really fathom how, but it’s possible she might say, like, “So, Mr. Manners, how do I look?!”) then feel free to say she looks great! But otherwise steer clear.

    11. Chrissi*

      I’ve been in the position of having been very overweight and losing a lot of weight (over about a year), and while I did appreciate the compliments from a couple of coworkers (usually coworkers that had struggled w/ weight as well), I would have been weirded out if everyone commented on it. And, I didn’t really feel this way, but I’ve heard from other people in this situation that sometimes you can’t help but think on the reverse of “oh you look great”, which is, “are you saying I looked bad before?” or something like that. I think it’s safer to just tell her it’s great to have her back.

    12. Sunflower*

      I’d focus on the first two. I’d refrain from saying anything about her body today or anytime in the future. It’s just super awkward for everyone. I totally get where you’re coming from but I wouldn’t mention her body unless she brings it up.

    13. Liz*

      My first day at my current job also happened to be the same day another person returned from an extended leave after weight loss surgery. Everyone was very open about the change, and he was more than willing to discuss the process/changes/etc.

      Before I started there was some reorganization but I believe his team and mine worked on the same floor and were really close.

      I would wait and see how she presents the situation. If it is something she invites on her own, then don’t feel weird about it. But if she seems to skirt the subject with others, then forget it even happened

    14. Honeybee*

      Yeah, I agree with everyone else about not commenting on her body at all – just say “Welcome back!”

      Also…she might not look different right away. Weight loss surgery often takes time to make a discernible difference in people’s appearance. (Not that it matters anyway.)

    15. TootsNYC*

      Well, “you look great” doesn’t have to mean weight. It can mean, “you look energetic and rested.”

      But I think avoiding a comment on her body is probably best.
      If you know her well, you could ask her: “Did you want us to comment on weight loss as you go along?”
      I once didn’t mention anything to my SisInLaw about her breast-reduction surgery, and she mentioned that I hadn’t mentioned. I had to tell her that she looked exactly the same to me–I never thought of her as being particularly big breasted, and that she matched my mental picture of her. And that I wasn’t sure I should comment anyway.

    16. Not So NewReader*

      “Glad you’re back, we missed you!” Works for all kinds of situations. I had a cohort who lost a family member. The whole story was NOT GOOD, so she clearly stated she wanted NO mention of it. I went with the “glad your back” stuff and her face softened into a small smile. The conversation flowed quite easily from there on.

  8. Sad & Remote*

    About trying to improve loneliness and disconnectedness when you’re a remote employee…..

    I started 1.5 yrs ago at my company, on “Team A” as a support person for the only other person in my territory, who was on “Team B”. This colleague left abruptly a few months ago during our busiest season, so I assumed most of his Team B duties as well. Since that time, I have been looped into Team B meetings and I’ve been in a weird limbo where I don’t seem to be fully on either team.
    The problem is that I have no consistent, meaningful interaction with my other coworkers. Our company office and all other employees are on the opposite coast. I was pretty close with my Team A coworkers, but their number is dwindling (only 1-2 other members on that team). My new team B members are more numerous and closer in age to me, so I thought I would fit in pretty well with the group. However, they come off as cliqueish. I don’t think they dislike me; it seems to be more a case of 1) some of them knew each other before or 2) sheer proximity (they either work together at HQ or if remote, see each other much more often at meetings), or 3) they still think of me as a Team A member.
    At in-person meetings, our company schedules a lot of group dinners, activities, etc. However, Team B members will often go out afterwards or hang out together and I’m rarely invited along. They also talk and text a lot amongst themselves. Occasionally I’ll send a text just to reach out or share something funny/interesting/helpful, but the response will be a simple reply and that’s it.
    Unfortunately, communication isn’t that great at our company, and I’m usually the last person to hear about stuff. A few months ago, we were all asked to provide our birthdays and mailing addresses. My birthday (last month) passed with no acknowledgment. That was fine, but it stung when we were notified of another team member’s birthday last week and asked to all wish her a happy birthday. In the past, I’ve also mailed birthday cards to coworkers if I knew their birthday.
    This situation wouldn’t be such a problem if I didn’t have such a poor support system at home. Due to work/travel schedules, my husband and I are ships passing in the night. I’m a transplant to a rural area where it’s hard to find friends, join meetup groups, etc. and I’m very far from my family and old friends. Never having worked alone, I never realized I was an extrovert until this job. I love what I do, but the loneliness is killing me. I’m on the road by myself all the time and often I’ll sit in my truck and cry.
    I’ve told some of my coworkers about being lonely out here, but the response is either 5 seconds of lip service (“Awwww….”) or unhelpful remarks (“I’d *love* to not have people bugging me all the time!”) If I complain about this too much, I fear I’ll come across as a whiner or unable to handle this job. Finding a new job is not an option. I’m currently seeing a therapist but it’s very difficult to get appointments. Any other ideas?

    1. Christy*

      Make new friends in the area. Find meet ups that you can join. Call your family or old friends while you drive for work. Find a new therapist with more appointments. Volunteer (at a school?) so you get more human interaction.

      Just brainstorming, sorry I’m so abrupt.

    2. Lizabeth*

      Check out the local library to see if they have programs you might find interesting or at least have a local event bulletin board.

    4. Sunflower*

      I agree to focus on finding friendships or activities outside of work. Try meet-ups or local websites to see what’s going on in your area when you are home or whatever area you’re traveling to. I’ve recently started listening to podcasts in my car and it’s totally changed my commute. That and books on tape can help me feel not so lonely when I’m alone.

      1. Shannon*

        If there aren’t any meetups in your area start one.

        I’ve had long stretches as a housewife, so I understand where you’re coming from. Here are some things that I’ve done at various times and have worked for me:

        – taking a class at the local community college (if not too far away)
        – volunteering
        – physical fitness classes at the YMCA/ martial arts classes
        – book clubs at the public library
        – knitting/ embroidery/ sewing circle
        – bowling on a league (either with my husband when I could coerce him into making time for it or by myself)
        – does your community have a department of parks and recreation?
        – throwing a block party
        – I’m really hesitant to throw this out there, but, there’s always church. I’ve known people who went to church for the socialization aspect more than the religion.

        Since you’re in a rural area, you may have to take the lead in setting some of these things up. Honestly, though, for any interest you have, you can probably wrangle together a few other like minded people.

        The real problem is that it sounds like this job isn’t a good fit for you or your family. Would it be possible to investigate other jobs?

    5. LJL*

      I also work remotely, so I get it, and I’m a transplant to the area where I live now. It is work to meet other people. Absolutely. Here are some things that have worked for me and my brother (when he was relocating to another area…not same as mine):
      1. Join professional organizations in the area like Rotary or Kiwanis. Many of them are announced in the newspapers, and even the smallest/most rural areas have some kind of civic group.
      2. Join a church or attend regularly. it’s very nice to have someone say “good to see you again,” even if you don’t know the person’s name. If you want to volunteer, this can also provide you with avenues to do that.
      3. Volunteer.
      4. Join groups of local interest. For me it’s a book club, for my brother, adult kickball. Look on Facebook to see if there are any advertised.
      5. Make an effort to stay in regular touch with friends and family virtually. My BFF and I used to do “lunch dates” over the phone: we’d each get lunch, then call each other on speaker phone.

      I hope these help. If you’re depressed, I know that it can be a hell of a lot of effort to do that. If you’re trying to do something on the list and it’s seeming hard, make a deal with yourself that you will get a reward after you do it.

      Also, you can check out this book: Feeling Good, the New Mood Therapy. Simple, basic, but it really helps.

    6. Sad & Remote*

      Thank you for the suggestions. You all are right, it would be best to focus on cultivating friendships in my own area. There is a swing dancing club I’ve been meaning to check out, and this sounds like a good time to do it!

      2. Shannon*

        Don’t get too frustrated if your first attempt at doing something out of the house doesn’t net friends right off the bat. Just keep on trucking!

        1. Chocolate Teapot*

          I have taken up Swingdance/Lindy Hop and can report it’s an excellent way of meeting people.

      3. Christy*

        Oh, and IDK if this is up your alley, but I’ve made a friend through Weight Watchers. If it’s something you might join anyway, it could be a good way to meet people (and to, if nothing else, interact with the same people every week).

      4. The IT Manager*

        Yes! I think it’s a change, but as a remote employee you can’t expect to form real friendships and a support structure with your remote co-workers. Maybe you’ll really click with someone, but working remotely removes a lot of possibility for small talk and getting to know each other.

        It’s tough. I just moved. I play adult sports and immediately joined a league, but it took several months before I realized that I needed to look on Meet-up and Facebook for other social groups to join. It’ll be even tougher for you in a rural community, but I think you need to look for friendships with people you can see face to face.

    7. WorkingFromCafeInCA*

      I’m in the sad & lonely remote worker for 2 years club. Everyone at my company works remotely; no one is in my city. What about an AAM work-from-home chat group? Didn’t someone start one once? I’d just love more people to share my random thoughts with, or “hey I found this cool thing in Excel” or “Gah! Printers are the worst!” or “Quick puppy-gif break!” kind of stuff…

    8. Dynamic Beige*

      I would also suggest that if you drive a lot for your job, make a CD/MP3 playlist of all your favourite songs that never fail to put a smile on your face/car dance in your seat/that you love to sing along to. Or, use the time to listen to audiobooks/podcasts.

      With regards to your coworkers who seem very clique-y, have you asked them for suggestions? I mean, you’re new to the area, you don’t know what’s going on. You could try starting some conversations with them along the lines of “it’s my anniversary coming up and I’d like to go out for a nice dinner. Can you make a recommendation? How about Jane? Would she know of anywhere?” Even if you don’t go for your anniversary, go to one of their suggestions alone if you have to, then come back and report. “Thanks for suggesting Wakeen’s Roadhouse. They had great ribs! I’ve really been hankering after some good [food type here]. Do you know any place locally that does that?” Unfortunately, it’s not kindergarten any more and if you want to get to know your coworkers better, you’re going to have to not take it personally and drip, drip, drip, like erosion to wear them down. You think they’re clique-y or see you as a Team A person, but maybe you haven’t been as friendly and welcoming to them as you think you have been. Or that you resent them because you’ve lost all your “better” Team A members.

  9. ACA*

    I mentioned the other week that I’d received the most encouraging rejection letter ever from a job that I’d been runner-up for. This week, they contacted me again to say that the person they’d hired had received a better counter-offer and decided to stay at her current job…and was I still interested in the position? Why yes, yes I was.

    Unfortunately, company policy requires that they talk to my current supervisor in addition to any other references, but they graciously offered to hold off on contacting him until I’d had a chance to tell him myself. So yesterday morning I got to have an awkward chat with my boss (it went a lot better than expected), and yesterday afternoon I got to anxiously stare at the light on his extension while he spent 30 minutes on the phone with the hiring manager.

    This morning the hiring manager emailed me to let me know the next steps – and assuming that HR doesn’t drag their feet too much, it looks like they could be making me an offer by the end of next week.

    I think this might actually be happening.

    2. CoffeeLover*

      That’s super exciting. Congratulations! They sound like a good company to work for and I hope the rest of the process goes smoothly for you.

  10. Ashley the Nonprofit Exec*

    I need some tips. I have a new employee who has Aspergers, and I’d like to hear from people with Aspergers about great managers you’ve had. What did they do well? What worked for you? What did they do that didn’t work?

    I have a long-time close friend with Aspergers, but enjoying someone’s company and managing performance aren’t all that similar.

    1. Barbara in Swampeast*

      While there may be some general tips people would have, I want to point out that people with Aspergers are individuals also and what bothers one person may not bother another, so sit down and have a conversation with the employee. Ask if she has any preferences for how to communicate with her, in person or email. Ask if her workstation is satisfactory – light, sounds. I would also ask “What one thing do you want me to understand about you?” Let the employee tell you what she needs.

      1. GOG11*

        “Let the employee tell you what she needs.” +1

        If the conversation you’re preparing for is specifically for mapping out accommodations, I think it’s more appropriate to bring up potential problem areas than if it were a more general conversation, but I still think it’s best to let the employee tell you what she needs and then be as open and accommodating as you can.

      2. Ashley the Nonprofit Exec*

        Of course. I’m actually interested in individual people’s experiences. This person is completely new to working (very young), and is not a great source of information on how they can best be managed. Hoping to speed up my learning curve a bit :-).

    2. Mints*

      I think a lot of my advice is to approach it with good management in general. Being kind, direct, clear expectations, flexible. My preferences might be affected by Aspergers, but you / my manager wouldn’t know until we work together for a little while. I think what I look for in a manager overlaps with most of the content on this site. I’m not “out” at work, so the things I ask for or talk about are really specific (I might say something like “I tend not to be really emotive” or “I’m weird about fabrics, and I hate this chair, sorry”)

    3. AndersonDarling*

      As Barbara said, everyone is different, but I can tell you what I have difficulties with.
      1. Being trained in a process but then being told that that “we really don’t do it that way.” I live in a very truthful world, so I feel like someone was lying to me if they trained me wrong. Drives me crazy! I need to be trained correctly the first time, and any variances need to be explained up front.
      2. Be straightforward. If feedback is being cushioned, I really don’t pick it up.
      3. It took me a long time to adjust to my co-workers’ humor and figure out who was being mean and who was being funny. Sometimes I guess in the wrong direction.
      That being said, no one knows I have Aspergers, these are things I just had to observe and understand that the world doesn’t think the same way I do. :)

      1. AndersonDarling*

        Oh yeah… I can’t lie. I figure that at some point I will need to tell my manager that so I’m not put in a situation where I need to bend the truth or embellish it.

      2. Tau*

        Oh yeah, +1 on the not being able to lie.

        And I’m having similar problems with training right now – our materials seem to be slightly out of date, so sometimes they’ll say to do things X way and then my trainer comes along and says no, we do this Y way now. Or sometimes it’s a “sure, *on paper* we do it this way but in practice what actually happens is this.” Drives me bonkers.

        (I’m curious to see what people’s experiences with disclosing/not disclosing are! I haven’t disclosed, but I’m thinking about it.)

    4. AnnieNonymous*

      Hmmm, what kind of work is this employee doing? I’ve heard Aspergers being defined as an inability to read social cues, and I’ve seen that to be true, generally speaking. I would be mindful of how this employee is able to accomplish customer interactions (both in person and on the phone) – there may be issues that cannot be solved with training, and the role might have to be reconfigured a bit. Even email can be difficult sometimes, as people with Aspergers sometimes have trouble gleaning meaning from figurative language/quirks from other dialects/sarcasm.

      Aspergers diagnoses are incredibly common these days, and I’ve worked with a few people who are on the spectrum. It’s never been a huge problem, but managers need to be on the ball. I had a coworker with Aspergers disrupt and inadvertently completely derail an important meeting (in our open-plan office, natch), because he didn’t understand the cue to be quiet about sensitive business details, and my boss hadn’t anticipated that my coworker would chime up to “correct mistakes.”

      By no means should you treat this person like a child, but you need to be really direct and clear in your directives. Read through past AAM posts about bosses who phrase directions as suggestions for more tips on communicating in ways that will be interpreted properly.

      1. Ashley the Nonprofit Exec*

        Doing very basic clerical work. We have learned that sometimes a script is needed, vs. general guidance about how to handle something. That’s tough for me, because I’m used to giving higher-level, concept-based feedback, ie, explaining what the goal and what standards should be met is vs. explaining exactly how the task should be accomplished step by step.

        1. AnnieNonymous*

          A very common trait of Aspergers is the tendency to get bogged down by details. I’ve seen it described as “someone who could tell you the name of every single part of a camera made in 1927, despite having no interest in photography.” As you give your step-by-step directions, it would probably be really helpful if you were very clear about how tasks rank in terms of priority.

        2. catsAreCool*

          When I’ve run into issues with unclear directions or contradicting directions, I write up what I know (including the items that contradict each other) and ask someone to look over it and let me know how to fix it. I don’t think I’m on the spectrum though. I do want to get things right.

          In this case, if you don’t have clear written directions, this may be the perfect time for you and the new employee to make the directions better. Maybe you start by explaining things and giving the person documentation you have, then the new employee can go over the data and put things into a format that works for someone who wants things very exact. Then you can go over it and fix anything that needs to be corrected.

    5. AnotherFed*

      Consistency is very important, so it’s important to be clear and specific when giving feedback (whether planned or just basic reactions) – it’s confusing to everyone when a manager says X but only sort of holds people to it, but especially so to people with Aspergers and new to the workforce.

      If the task has multiple ways it could go, it’s very helpful to build an “if this, then do that” chart to show what steps to do, not train the task one way and just mention that there’s exceptions X, Y, and Z.

    6. Tau*

      I don’t have much to add – just started my first job and haven’t disclosed – but one thing I want to point out which a lot of people forget is that Asperger’s is more than just the social stuff. Something that may crop up, for instance, is sensory issues. Your employee might need a quieter workspace or can’t handle fluorescent lighting or the like, and that kind of need is not to be taken lightly.

      I’d also be curious to know if anyone has had a manager whose style helped in some way with difficulties prioritising and other such executive function-related issues. Those are some of my biggest problems, but I’ve failed to think of any way in which a workplace could help so I’m planning to grit my teeth and muddle through on my own.

  11. Gandalf the Nude*

    Without getting too specific, here’s a “fun” thing that’s going on at my office. A manager, Art, came to me (HR) with evidence that he’d caught his employee, Rachel, in a pretty elaborate lie that included impersonating Art. After talking it over with me and a couple other people, he went back to Rachel to give him a chance to come clean. But Rachel says she didn’t do it, and Art gets the impression she’s being truthful. It’s entirely plausible that Rachel’s being framed by one of her employees. Raylan and Rachel do not get along, but his work is solid and he’s protected by Art, who worked with him previously. Tim, as far as we know, doesn’t have a reason to want Rachel to get in trouble but would have benefited from the content of the lie. Then there’s Ava, who was recently fired but wouldn’t have enough information to form the lie unless she’d kept in contact with one of the current employees. Oh, and we have to make sure that Rachel herself isn’t framing someone else, particularly given her relationship with Raylan. So, now we have to figure out who it was and discipline them. Oh, and my boss and all the other folks above Art are out of the office until next week. Fun, right?!

      2. HeyNonnyNonny*

        +1 this was my thought too! I’m imagining Tim Curry running around the office gathering clues.

    2. Jill of All Trades*

      What was the impersonation? What was the lie? If Art came to you saying he’d caught Rachel in this lie, how is it he now believes she didn’t do it? Was she caught or not? Could Art actually be the trouble maker here?

      1. Gandalf the Nude*

        I don’t want to get any more specific since the investigation is ongoing and I don’t know who in my office reads this (I know I’ve recommended AAM to my boss and to Raylan), but I’ll be happy to get more specific once it’s resolved. It is the kind of thing that would be very obvious and was very easy to spot, though, but also very easy to fake. I had actually wondered whether Art could be the perpetrator, but I hadn’t gotten the impression that they were terribly misaligned, though I’m not always privy to that kind of thing. I think we’ve got a good game plan, though. I just wanted to pass the nuts.

        That everyone is a suspect, though, does say some rather troubling things about the dynamics of the department.

      2. some1*

        I have the same questions. If we’re talking about impersonating Art by email, how could a former employee have done it?

    3. LPBB*

      I have no advice, but great choice of names! For once, someone picked a TV show I’m actually familiar with!

    5. fposte*

      If this is via email or other computer communication, can’t they identify the computer and who was logged in? Or pull the metadata from the text document?

    6. CoffeeLover*

      It’s the kind of thing you would expect to see on a work-life reality TV show. I hope you find some time to enjoy the drama.

  12. Gwen*

    How do you deal with a coworker who is 100% committed to championing a tool that you hate? Her support of it doesn’t necessarily affect my work (my manager supported me in switching to a different tool for at least one portion of the project), but I’m having a difficult time figuring out how to respond when she starts insisting that the tool she likes could have done anything I wanted when, obviously, the reason I switched was because that wasn’t so. I don’t want to make an enemy, but I’m also sick to death of hearing about it.

    1. Charlotte Collins*

      I’d just redirect the conversation. There’s got to be something else work-related that you could discuss.

      I have found that “not robust enough” or “doesn’t do exactly what I need” then moving on to other things has helped. (I’ve had to justify not using a tool that didn’t do what I wanted, too. I’d rather use my old, clunky tools that I know the workarounds for than get something shiny and new that creates the need for shiny new workarounds – when I still need to use my old tools for certain things. I wish more management would actually pay attention when their staff tells them what they need in a tool…)

    2. CoffeeLover*

      I think instead of arguing over which tool is better, you should just say you prefer this tool for you and leave it at that. Don’t get into debates with her.
      Her: “X is so much better and can do all the stuff you want, blah blah.”
      You: “I’m happy you found a tool that works for you. I gave it a good try but I found Y works better for me, so I plan to stick with it.”
      Her: “But X is blah blah”
      You: “I have a personal preference for Y”
      Etc.

    3. Lefty*

      I would address it quickly and change the subject- something like, “Thanks for your input but I’m really happy with ________ for this. Have you been outside yet? I wonder if I need my sweater when I leave for lunch.” Maybe if you need something firmer, “I know you prefer ______; since Manager and I are happy with _______, I’ll stick to that, thanks.”

    4. JenGray*

      I would use some of the language already posted but also after you have had that conversation with her & she brings it up again just say to her that you have already discussed why you using X and won’t discuss it anymore. I have found that sometimes people don’t fully understand what you are doing so will be convinced (even after you telling them otherwise) that something will work for you when it won’t. It annoying and at a certain point you just have to be firm.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      You could try saying something like, “Yes, Marisa, you’ve told me how much you like this tool,” with a little smile on your face but a tone of finality in your voice.

      You could try saying something like, “I really don’t want to talk about Tool everyday, can we find other things to talk about?”

      Or you may have to just drop the hammer. “Marisa, Boss okayed my changing to This Here because of difficulties with Tool. It’s a long and involved story. I won’t be switching back to Tool. I would really appreciate if we could stop discussing Tool and find other things to talk about.”

  13. Biglaw Stormtrooper*

    I am, as my username indicates, in Biglaw–I’m a second-year litigation at a large firm in the northeast US. I need to do a couple more years because of loans, but after that I’m interested in transitioning into government (my magical unicorn job right now is one with solid pay and benefits, but one where I’m not constantly on call). Does anyone have advice on that transition? Or other exit options that I might not have thought of (I feel like there’s less variety on the litigation side than the transactional one)? Any advice or anecdotes would be much appreciated. :-)

    1. kozinskey*

      I have no advice that’s actually of value, but as a government atty I thought it was hilarious when we had a new hire from Biglaw and he was shocked that he had to buy his own tissues =D

    2. PurpleMonkeyDishwasher*

      Look up your “dream” government job now, and figure out what your qualifications will need to be to get you into (i.e., you’re not going to go work for the SEC without significant meaningful securities experience). Then do whatever you can do to maneuver yourself into a position where you’re gaining the necessary skills. Good luck!

      1. Lucky*

        Yes, this, and then network your butt off. Find the people who are doing your unicorn dream job now, the attorneys who are 4-7 years out, and ask them what to do. Since you’re Biglaw, also hit up your firm’s alumni who escaped.

    3. cv*

      IANAL, but I am married to one and have many lawyer friends. I’d say to stay in touch with classmates from law school and other associates who leave your firm (and there are a lot of associates who leave Biglaw firms in years 3-5), because people end up all over the place and you’ll want those contacts. Straight-up networking isn’t usually the way in to a federal job the way it is with the private sector, but having people to talk to about which jobs need which skills, who’s hiring, what sorts of things to emphasize in your application, etc., is really valuable in any job search, especially given that government hiring processes are often really different than what you’ve probably dealt with before. You may end up deciding that a smaller firm is what you want since some of them have better hours and a more emotionally satisfying client base, or that you’re interested in regulatory work rather than straight-up litigation if you do go into government, or that you want to go in-house in the private sector (I realize that in-house litigation jobs are scarce, but they do exist). Knowing people who are doing those things or knowing people who know people doing those things will be a huge help.

      Your geography will affect your search, for sure. If you want to do litigation in many federal agencies, trial work is done in the regional field offices and appellate work is mostly out of DC. Whether you’re in a state capital will matter, too.

    4. TNTT*

      I did this transition about a year ago after 4 years in BigLaw. The above advice is good, but the biggest thing I can tell you is to avoid the golden handcuffs at all costs. You will take a SIGNIFICANT paycut, even if you get to “solid pay and benefits.” If you’re talking about leaving as a 4th/5th year, you could be making 50% of your salary or even less. Make that part of the transition as easy as possible by (1) throwing all your BigLaw dollars at your loans and (2) saving the rest.

      Don’t buy a car, don’t buy a house, don’t start buying ridiculous bespoke suits. Keep your eye on the unicorn job prize, your qualifications will get you there, and you’ll be happy once you’re there too!

      2. Nerdling*

        This is very very very true. One of my coworkers did all of the things that TNTT said not to do (minus the suits) before taking a massive paycut to transition to a new job role and work for us. It has left them at a point where ever buying a house again may not be financially feasible.

        Also, be aware that the hiring process for many government agencies can take ages. Relocation might be necessary. See if you can get to know some Assistant US Attorneys if there are any in your area. They can tell you a lot about how the system works if you’re interested in working for DOJ. And definitely network your butt off; it can help you get a better idea of which agencies you might want to work for and which you definitely wouldn’t.

    5. Anon Lawyer*

      One other option — consider going to a smaller or mid-size firm that largely works with government. This obviously depends heavily on where you live, but I started at BigLaw and eventually made my way to a shop that focuses on governmental contracting and litigation. I am far from 24/7 because my clients all go home at 5 (or earlier!). It will be helpful to you if you can try to pick up cases with a governmental angle (FOIA, regulatory, etc.). Some firms will also transition litigators with specific skill sets to contracting (such as turning construction defect litigators into construction contract negotiators). I do agree with the other suggestions as well.

    6. Honeybee*

      I don’t, but I will say that I do love your username.

      Well, I guess I do – but it’s the more general advice that since you know you have a couple more years, now is a good time to start expanding your network in government law. I’m assuming that you are in or nearby a large city since BigLaw firms don’t tend to be out in the sticks, and in that large city are probably some professional groups for lawyers. Maybe join some and try to meet some lawyers who have made that transition. Also contacting the alumni association (of law school but also maybe undergrad) and seeing whether friends or classmates have gone into government law and picking their brains.

      Also, is there the possibility of doing some pro bono or consulting work with government firms? Not that your life probably isn’t crazy enough, but do those opportunities exist at your firm?

  14. SerfinUSA*

    Does anyone use Access, and can recommend some good free online tutorials/resources for building a database from scratch?
    I am hoping to track instructors and the courses they teach per quarter, plus park email and other communications on a tab somewhere so I have a pixel trail all in one spot. I need stuff on table relationships, primary/foreign keys, forms & subforms.
    Ugh!

    1. Hermione*

      Lynda [dot] com has always been my go-to place for learning new software. They have a monthly subscription, but usually have a free 30 day trial that would let you learn Access quickly and then cancel.

      2. SerfinUSA*

        That sounds like a great option. I’ll check out their trial and see what I can pick up in 10 days.

        1. Bibliovore*

          Check your local library, too. More and more public libraries are offering free access to Lynda.com for cardholders!

    2. Barbara in Swampeast*

      Serfin,
      I LOVE doing schemas (figuring out the tables and primary/foreign keys) and will do that for you for free, plus explain what I did. You will just need to figure out forms, queries, and reports. You can use the contact form on my website (click on my user name).

    3. Career Counselorette*

      You can also check out gcflearnfree.org. They have really good learning modules for every version of every Microsoft Office program, all for free.

    4. cv*

      I learned Access in part by getting an instruction manual in hard copy – I think my company paid for it, but a library copy would have worked fine, too. Sitting down and reading a couple of chapters on exactly how a relational database is supposed to organize information really helped.

    6. JenGray*

      I just discovered this today: GFClearnfree.org. It’s completely free and offers training on most Microsoft Office products including Access.

  15. Midge*

    How do you deal with coworkers who are moms who make everything about them being a mom? (I haven’t seen the same thing withy dads, but maybe it exists.) Like asking, “Jane are you going to Lucinda’s going away party (during work hours)?” And Jane replies that it’s so hard to find time for stuff like that when your a mom. Or if she makes a mistake with a customer and you ask her to do something differently next time, and she replies, “I can’t believe as a mom I even did something like that!”

    It’s driving me bonkers.

    1. Muriel Heslop*

      I’m a mom with small kids and that drives me bonkers, too! When I encounter that, I just ignore it.

    2. Ashley the Nonprofit Exec*

      This might not be all that nice, but I sometimes say “yeah, we all have a things going on in our lives that make us busy. It’s hard to prioritize sometimes.”

      1. GOG11*

        If this is delivered in a sympathetic tone (that doesn’t come across as mocking), I don’t think it would come over as rude, snarky, mean, or un-nice. I think that would actually work.

          1. GOG11*

            I think you’d probably have to change the subject right after, too, to something work-related. If you just leave it at Ashley’s suggested reply, she might go on about how it IS so hard to prioritize, exhibits A-E included.

            I’m not a parent, but I definitely have rambling moments when I talk about things I’m passionate about and it would work on me at least.

        2. Honeybee*

          I agree with that! I actually usually do express some sympathy for their struggle and then follow with a line like this.

        3. Ashley the Nonprofit Exec*

          I agree. I’m good at neutral/sympathetic, so I don’t tend to get a bad response. I say it might not be nice because it’s not really…tuning into the other person’s experience – which is the polite thing to do. But if you are trying to shut this down, then I think that pointing out that she’s not the only one with responsibilities and pressures is perfectly reasonable.

      2. Ad Astra*

        In the right tone, this would be perfect. You just have to make it sound like you’re commiserating rather than arguing.

    3. Mockingjay*

      You can only ignore her.

      The “Martyr Mom” will always win, no matter what you say. She’s just a variation of the office Topper.

      (If you really need an outlet, post pertinent Dilbert cartoons around the office. She won’t get that they’re about her.)

      1. CoffeeLover*

        That’s funny and accurate. We should create a wikipedia page for people you find in the office. “Martyr Mom” and “Topper” would make great first entries.

      2. Chrissi*

        There’s a blogger on Mommyish, Blair Koenig, that calls it Mommyjacking – i.e. hijacking every conversation w/ a mommy story. I love that phrase.

          1. afiendishthingy*

            I assume it’s what I call the One-Upper. If you say you’re tired, they say they haven’t gotten more than 2 hours of sleep all week. If you’re busy, they were at work til 9 last night and then came home and made 25 costumes for their kid’s school play. If you have a paper cut, they have a story about being stabbed with a samurai sword.

    4. ElCee*

      Just start your own version. “As a khaki-wearing angelfish, I am sure hoping those TPS reports come in!”

    5. SerfinUSA*

      Wow. Sounds like being a mom takes up a lot of CPU. Hopefully you can shut down some other apps to free up more processing power.

    6. nona*

      Ignore. It is really annoying but I haven’t found anything that stops it.

      I was the only non-parent working in a store once. Good times.

    7. Anonicorn*

      Maybe start relating your experience with pet ownership.

      “I hear you; my dog needs so much attention. As a dog owner, it’s difficult to stay away from home even during normal working hours.”

      1. Mints*

        I’ve done this. Two coworkers were going on and on about their kids (like at least half an hour, going on a whole hour) and I said to another coworker, “Cersei, how are your cats doing?” She kind of snickered because she saw what I was doing but we ended up sharing a few funny stories. It was great. Especially when we realized her cats were older than the kids haha

        Oh, if you’re going to be extra snarky:
        “I feel you. As a fish owner, it’s hard to get away for more than a few hours”

          1. Mints*

            +1
            I was thinking plants, but couldn’t think of something funny. Orchids work because they ARE difficult!

        2. afiendishthingy*

          I sent out a report full of grammatical errors? I can’t believe, as a knitter, I did that!

          Sorry I can’t stay late tonight. When you’re a popular fanfiction writer, your priorities are just different.

      2. GOG11*

        I’m not a parent, and I’m not a fan of children, but for some reason, It’s Like They Know Us makes me laugh so hard I snort. I do enjoy STFU parents, but nothing is funnier to me than ILTKU. Doubt it will help when you’re annoyed at a parent, but I wanted to share nonetheless.

    9. pony tailed wonder*

      It’s time to make out an office bingo card. Make the squares for each tried and true phrase that Mommy says.

      Just kidding. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and put up with other people’s idiosyncrasies.

    10. JenGray*

      As a mom myself it’s ridiculous to equate you being a mom with what you did at work. I think that you should take the suggestions of the other posters and when thrown some reference to kids respond with something about your dog or plant.

    11. Dynamic Beige*

      Or if she makes a mistake with a customer and you ask her to do something differently next time, and she replies, “I can’t believe as a mom I even did something like that!”

      OK, I hate to say this but if someone said that to me, they’d probably be looking at my Confused Face as I said back “I don’t get it. What does being a Mom have to do with the fact you didn’t give correct change / forgot to include the terms on the invoice (or whatever the error was)?”
      [wait for response]
      “You know, if I were you, I wouldn’t say things like that around the office. I mean, I’m not saying that they would target working moms first in the event of layoffs, but if they thought that you were making excuses for things like this and blaming it on caring for your children/your family responsibilities… I can’t see how that would work to your advantage. It sucks and it’s not right but that is the way the world works unfortunately.”

      Because I don’t think she’s doing this because you need to be reminded that she’s got children. I think she’s doing this because she wants to remind you to go easy on her, because she’s a *Mom* and she’s got all these other responsibilities that eat away at her time and energy (that you just don’t have any clue about) and being mean to her would be like being mean to your own Mom — and don’t you love your Mom?

      1. Ruffingit*

        I think some women do this to try to feel better about themselves. The non-childed peons cannot possibly understand the difficulties of being a mom. I just can’t possibly go to a work party, I have CHILDREN. Won’t someone think of the children?!

        It’s like they’re trying to justify their existence or choices or something or make themselves feel better in comparison to their co-workers who don’t have kids. “Those work parties (which I used to think were fun) are no longer worth it because I have children and they take priority. You go on now and do your little immature partying…” I don’t know if this is the deal with this woman, but I’ve totally seen this attitude with others before.

      2. Not So NewReader*

        I agree with this so much, especially the third paragraph. She is doing herself a great disservice with these constant references to her “mom” status. It’s almost like a mini-meltdown on her part.

        Other people who are parents know for a fact that being a parent has no bearing on whether you make mistakes or not.

        Additionally, these people are not her children. I hope that people are not thinking she is taking care of them as if they were her children, these are fellow adults. Maybe you can say something like, “These people are adults, they don’t expect you to be a mom to them. They already have a mother.”

        1. Dynamic Beige*

          I also kind of wonder if she’s got some weird Now That I’m a MOM, I Must Be Perfect at All Times thing going on. “I can’t believe as a mom I even did something like that!” — what does that even mean? “I can’t believe as someone who has brown hair/requires oxygen/wears shoes I even did something like that!” Whaaaaat? Is there some new special metric at work that sets moms to a higher standard of performance than everyone else?

          1. Not So NewReader*

            Yeah, it could be the tip of the iceberg for other things. Hopefully, not. Maybe she just thinks everyone else around her is a parent and she needs to keep referencing her mom status to fit in.
            Under her theory, though, people who do not have kids do less than perfect work. That is a pretty weird correlation.

  16. Regular contributor going anon for this*

    I’m going anonymous for this one. I have had a few issues that have popped up in the last few weeks.

    I got hurt at work last week, reported it to the client (the site I work at is a large financial company) as well as my direct supervisor. I went to the on-site nurse and then went back to work.

    On Tuesday, I was presented with a series of rewrite ups for insubordination, which all related to the date I go hurt. One of the was for failing to return from my 15 minute break on time, it says in the rewrite that I didn’t return for 35 minutes.

    I’m pretty sure these rewrite ups will be used to remove me from the client’s site. I’m unsure what to do, since I didn’t push to go to a doctor or the hospital.

    Unrelated to this, I started a complaint with the DOL against my employer.

    A few friends have said I should try to find a lawyer, but that’s going to be expensive and I just don’t have the resources. Plus, I don’t exactly want the job back under those circumstances. Since I know the direct supervisor and my company would use anything they could to fire me from that point on.

    1. SerfinUSA*

      Can you get a 30 min consult with a lawyer? That would be enough to see where to go next, in terms of legal action.

    2. Barbara in Swampeast*

      I worked with a woman who had been written up in a previous job for leaving work early because she had had a heart attack and the EMTs took her to the hospital. The man beside was written up for leaving his desk when he went to aid!

    3. Observer*

      This screams retaliation. You need to protect yourself. See if you can have an initial chat with a lawyer for free, and see if they will take this on a contingency basis.

      1. AndersonDarling*

        Exactly. We had to do this when my husband was hurt at work. It wasn’t a big injury but the business started retaliating in a similar way. We aren’t the litigating kind of folks, but I knew things weren’t right so we got an attorney. There was a consultation, and we hired him on a contingency basis. I think it saved us a lot of heartache to have the attorney and not have to navigate the problem alone.

    4. Lucky*

      Talk to an employment lawyer, as it’s very possible that a lawyer would take your case on contingency (i.e., you pay filing fees and other costs, but the lawyer gets paid out of the $$$ you get in settlement, arbitration or trial.) Start by Google’ing “your state + bar +association + employment + section”.

      1. Audiophile*

        I’m in NY. The bar association website directed me to the NY Courts website. From there I’d have to know a first and last name, in order to verify that someone is registered. It’s a little confusing.

          1. Audiophile*

            I looked. They’re closed until Monday at 9:30, I’m scheduled to work tomorrow. I’m sure when I show up tomorrow that I’ll be unable to get in the building.

        2. Emma*

          Try Avvo.com, I’m not sure if it can find you exactly what you need, but it may be a good resource.

    7. attornaut*

      Google “OSHA 11c complaint” to find the web-based complaint system, and then immediately fill it out.

    8. BRR*

      Search “evilhrlady how to hire an employment lawyer” That should be everything you need.

      Also would it be possible to address it with HR, sometimes they’re great about the entire “we don’t want to be sued for illegal actions” thing.

      1. Audiophile*

        I searched but the links in the article are broken. I’ll look again when I get home.

        1. Audiophile*

          Thanks.

          I went through all the links and eventually found the NELA website. Found a list of employment lawyers I can contact on Monday.

    9. JenGray*

      I would notify the DOL because even though the injury & complaint are separate they might be related in regards to retaliation. Depending on the injury even if you didn’t go to the doctor the company still has to keep a record of it. I think that you absolutely need to consult a lawyer. I know in my area that most lawyers do a free consult for a certain amount of time. Make some calls. Also, if you haven’t already write down what occurred in regards to your injury so that you don’t have to rely on your memory and be specific- date/time of injury, date you are writing this all down, who was there, name of the on-site nurse (if there are multiple ones). Even though this might not be exactly admissible in court it will help the DOL or lawyer when you fight this.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        It looks like retaliation to me, but I am not a lawyer. I see enough going on in this story that I think you should find a lawyer.
        It sounds like the write up is a flat out lie, if that is the case then you know that this is a warning sign. It does not matter if you cannot prove it’s a lie, because, really all you need to know here is that the company is willing to create these lies. This means you are forewarned.

        Do document, even if you write it as a daily journal type of thing. You will find it very useful later on.

        1. Audiophile*

          Quick update for everyone:

          I was notified yesterday that I am no longer allowed on the client’s property.

          I will call the DOL on Monday and notify them that I was removed from the site.

          I briefly spoke with a lawyer earlier in the day, who said, that because I’m at-will it will be difficult to prove any wrongdoing on their part. But he recommended I find an employment law lawyer, who might be better suited to handling a possible case. I will go through Avvo and NELA this weekend and look for lawyers in my area.

          Thanks to all of you for your help.

          1. Not So NewReader*

            A friend of mine got injured while doing a service call. One of the first things that happened was that he was not allowed on the property of that customer. I think this is SOP for situations like this.
            I wish you the best outcome on this one. Keep us posted.

            1. Audiophile*

              Yeah, it’s not because I was injured. I worked for a week after my injury. This is most likely related to the write ups. I refused to sign them and this clearly irritated supervisor. I knew the writing was on the wall after that.

  17. Simplytea*

    How do you fix extraordinarily horrible employee morale when no one except you will speak up about it?

    Having this situation at work where one of our managers is HORRIBLE and very selfish (e.g. takes all credit for themselves, leaves early but refuses to let others do the same, doesn’t produce the same amount/quality of work as direct reports), but it’s chalked up to as “being able to deal with abrasive personalities”. This manager’s boss (my direct supervisor) either doesn’t realize how bad it is or chooses to ignore it even though I’ve eluded to it a few times. Clearly, this is causing a lot of resentment.

    As an executive assistant, have you dealt with a situation like this? I’ve only been here for 6 months, so I don’t yet have the level of… respect to make a direct complaint. Do you tell all or keep to yourself? This manager generally directly bother me, but it is hard to hear how bad it is for everyone else on our small team (<10 people) all the time.

    1. Isben Takes Tea*

      It sounds like one of those cases where direct conversation is needed, but it should be coming from those directly affected. If they’re not willing to say anything, it’s not your job to have that conversation for them, even if you’re affected by the overall office morale. If there’s an opportunity to bring up a point where you’re directly affected by this person’s behavior, you can bring it up, but you still aren’t in a position to bring up her behavior to her direct reports…only the behavior that affects you.

      It stinks, and good luck!

    2. fposte*

      A “Jane is just plain horrible and everybody hates her” complaint is pretty much doomed to failure from the start. Even if it was deemed actionable, the only real actions you can take on that are 1) fire her (unlikely) and 2) make her be completely different than who she is (impossible).

      It’s also tough because what you’re describing either sounds subjective or defensible. If Jane’s production issues are a problem for your workflow, or if Jane leaves early when you need her for something and expected her availability, that’s one thing. But her just not doing as much or going home earlier aren’t inherently problems, and they also really need to be problems for you or your direct reports, not for somebody else, before you can make a complaint.

      So I think you’re in suck-it-up mode. If I’m wrong and Jane’s productivity/schedule is indeed an issue for you, that’s the focus: “Can you give me some guidance in how to plan with Jane in the future? Both this week and last week I needed her signature at 3 for COB, and it’s slipped her mind and she’s been out of the office.”

    3. oldfashionedlovesong*

      I’m interested what solutions people have for this. I work in an office with terrible morale because the director is just horrid to everyone below her, and some of the people directly under her are also horrid to everyone below them (and I am one of those “everyone”), and everyone knows it but no one speaks up about it. Even the people higher up from our director are well aware of the awfulness and just ignore it. It’s really a terrible place full of hostility and dysfunction and poor quality work, and I just try to do my work and engage as little as possible with the awful people (which is hard because my technical role supports all departments here and there are certain people with whom I dread having to speak). …I spend a lot of evenings job hunting.

      The one thing that does help is the few people who are decent try to create a bit of an emotional oasis. One of them is my direct supervisor, for which I am eternally grateful, and I in turn try to be that space for her when the director (her boss) goes after her. It’s not a perfect solution, because my direct supervisor won’t (more realistically, can’t) speak up to the director either, but at least there is a small circle of people who support one another and make the day bearable. Can you find a way to create a space like that with a few people there you feel you can connect with? I’m sorry I don’t have more constructive ideas!

    4. OriginalYup*

      My response is affected by my own experience in a very, very similar situation.

      I was a new employee and saw terrible morale in a department of 15 employees that was due to a 3-person clique who were basically bullies. I discreetly asked around and everyone basically said, “Yep, it’s awful and that’s how it is. It used to be worse, actually.” So I matter of factly said something in a one on one meeting to my boss, the head of the department and head of HR. I said that I’d observed a morale problem based on a few employees being disrespectful and snide to their colleagues, and that it seemed to be affecting business because people were afraid to approach this one group with any requests at all, even functional requests that they alone could handle.

      It did not go well.

      I subsequently was invited to a meeting with my boss and another manager, outside the office so we could “speak privately,” where they asked me a series of questions about what I had observed and why did I think it was affecting morale. The entire company received booklets on fair treatment in the workplace, and had to attend a series of meetings about presentations about it. No mention was ever made about the actual problematic behavior, which continued unabated until the lead perpetrator changed departments.

      So I think that this situation exists at your company because they let it. Admittedly, I am cynical about situations like this due to my experience. I am worried that directly bringing it to their attention, especially as a new person and in a non-management role, will likely put you (rather than the bad manager) on the spot. If you directly affects your work and you do decide to address it with your boss, I would make the conversation about any instances that have directly been about you: “Crispin is extremely short with me when I ask for the Pinsky files. Is there something I should do differently when working with him?”

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Beautiful advice here. I firmly believe that these situations go on and on because management lets them. If you try to fix it, you could end up being everyone’s target. Yes, that is extreme but it does happen.

        The best you can do is try to build some cohesion, build an oasis as OFLS says above here.

  18. Holly*

    I know I’ve ranted about my (now old!) job a lot on here over the years.. the job where I got screamed at by the owner for not giving her a thank you card for my bonus – the day I found out I was getting one – and the job where we paid for ice, got nickel and dimed for all of our PTO, the owner saying racist and sexist things to us all the time, being told a kindergartner could do my job, etc. etc.

    I’ve sorta mentioned it in here but I’m so happy I want to say it again. I have a new job! And I love it here, so so much. I’m doing the same thing as before but in a new industry – an industry I have zero passion for, but that’s literally the only drawback. My team’s great. My director’s great. There’s no sign of irrational behavior or decision-making. The benefits are awesome. I’ve actually gotten praise for my work! I missed having positive self-esteem.

    Major thanks to AAM. I’ve used Alison’s e-book on all my job hunts over the years, but it was super helpful again for interview tips. I had no idea how being that unhappy was draining my energy to the negatives every day until I got out. :) Life is good again!

    2. danr*

      Let your passion for the new industry grow slowly and concentrate on your work and the good environment. Congratulations and good luck.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Right on. You can find passion about the job because the people there are good to you and the company is good to you. Framed this way you could be able to keep going with this place for quite a while.

        Congrats. It’s always good to hear about someone turning their situation around.

    7. CoffeeLover*

      Congratulations! I’m happy you were able to get out, and that you found a sane place to work. As for the boring industry, I honestly think that’s like cherry on to of the icing. You don’t really need the cherry to enjoy the pie :).

  19. Hlyssande*

    My department laid off three people on Wednesday. The atmosphere is obviously somewhat subdued. It’s frustrating because we were told a few months ago that our new budget was approved and they didn’t forsee any need to lower headcount; they just weren’t going to fill any of the open positions. When they announced it, they said that they couldn’t guarantee that there wouldn’t be any more reductions.

    It scares the crap out of me because I feel like if I wasn’t the only one with the deep knowledge of this one application I’ve been helping with from the start, it would have been me let go. I also have not been able to build up a safety net, with student loans, rent, insurance, all the things. I am living paycheck to paycheck and while I could budget somewhat better, there isn’t exactly much wiggle room to allow me to build up much in the way of savings. Every time I try, there’s another emergency, like something else breaking down on my car (desperately need to get the brakes fixed right now, for example, but have no money or credit room for said fixes). It’s depressing.

    I really need to get off my butt, use Allison’s book, and seriously work at getting out of here. I’ve been saying that I would for years (this is #10 for me), but I’m going to actually try and do it this time.

    1. Tris Prior*

      I just went through something similar and it sucks! I know that the only reason I escaped the last layoff is because there’s a vital task I’m responsible for, and I’m the only one here who knows how to do it. (not a thing that’s easily trained.) I have a TINY safety net but not enough to help much if I lost my job.

      It is depressing, and I’m sorry you’re going through it.

    2. Cordelia Naismith*

      For help with the budgeting part, I recommend YNAB (You Need a Budget). It’s really easy to use, and it made an immediate difference for me. You can download the full version for a free trial that lasts a little over a month to see if it works for you. There are also free webinars on their website; they give away a free copy of the software to one random participant for each webinar.

      Even if you can’t afford to buy the software, I think the YNAB method is doable with Excel or even just pencil and paper, so it’s worth checking out. I like it because it encourages a sense of control and empowerment over your money, and it discourages feeling shame or guilt for being in debt (if you are — I am, and I’ve managed to reduce my debt by 25% in the year and a half I’ve been using YNAB. I would have thought that was impossible before).

      I also like it because it encourages savings. I think some of the things they recommend are mostly psychological (having several smaller emergency funds set aside for specific purposes, for instance, instead of one big fund. For me, having one fund for “medical” and one for “car repair,” etc, means I’m much less likely to dip into those funds just because I made an impulse purchase than if it was just an amorphous money blob called “emergency.”

      It really helped me break out of the paycheck-to-paycheck cycle. I’m in a much better place financially than I was before I started using it.

      2. Hlyssande*

        Thank you! I will definitely look into that when I get home.

        Money has always been a huge source of anxiety for me, just like a lot of other people. My current apartment was a bit of a stretch in terms of rent, but the ability to live alone for the first time ever and NOT with terrible landlords has been a boon in its own right. It’s worth the trade off.

      3. Honeybee*

        Thanks for this! I’m starting a new job soon and I am determined to set myself a budget and get aggressive about paying off some of my debt. I’m doing pretty well but I know I can do better. I want a budgeting tool that’s easy – everything else has seemed like so much work to me, so I definitely want to give this a try. Thank you!

        1. fposte*

          Not to bury you, but there are also budgeting templates available in Excel–you can find additional free downloadable ones right through the application, if you don’t like the ones already offered, and they’ve got all the fields set up and formulas loaded and everything. But many people really love YNAB. too.

    3. NDQ*

      In order to get ahead of your bills, you may have to change your lifestyle dramatically. Cheaper housing, apply for income-based student loan payments, lower your food costs, and cut transportation expenses. There’s always another option. And yes, even getting a better paying job. But money habits tend to stay the same regardless of how much you have.

      Anyone can lose their job like your co-workers. Cut out everything non-essential and start planning for the worst.

      Good luck. I think lots of people are in a similar situation.

      NDQ

  20. bassclefchick*

    I could use some positive energy today! I got called for an interview yesterday. Yay! It’s for a pretty good company and the job is something I’m interested in doing. However, 2 hours after I got the call to set up an interview for today, the scheduler called me back and said the hiring manager’s calendar changed and would have to cancel the interview for today. Which is fine, these things happen. But she didn’t set up a new time!

    So, of COURSE I’m extra nervous now about not getting an interview at all. The thing is, I’ve been a temp for 4 years. The stress of not knowing if I have a job past the current week is taking a toll. I’ve been lucky that I’ve only had a few assignments that have all lasted a year or longer, but the uncertainty is killing me. I know I can stay at my current assignment as long as I need to. BUT. I work at a major food manufacturer that just completed a huge merger. Let’s just say the ketchup colored writing is on the wall. All the permanent employees are nervous as hell about keeping THEIR jobs.

    I REALLY want this new opportunity to work out. On the plus side, instead of having less than 24 hours to prepare for an interview, I now have all weekend. Wish me luck!

      1. bassclefchick*

        Squee!!!! Elizabeth West responded! I’m such a nerd! *waves hello* – love your blog!

        I don’t comment much, but I love this community and I read every post. You guys are the best!

  21. On and on anon anon*

    New one here, yesterday another work group’s manager came through unplugging everyone’s phones/iPods/tables/MP3 players/etc with the proclamation that they were “stealing the company’s electricity” and “anyone caught with one plugged in would be fired!”

    Our manager shook his head and told us to carry on.

      1. Nashira*

        I work in a state government office. You can get written up if you’re caught with a plug-in fan. We also have an illegal toaste that only survives because the senior manager who likes toast has informants with the energy inspection people.

        Not kidding. It’s surreal sometimes.

        1. Charlotte Collins*

          The toaster I can see, as those can be a fire hazard. (I thought my mother was nuts for always insisting that the toaster was unplugged when not in use until I read something about fire safety that said even modern toaster can cause fires easily if they are plugged in and not monitored.)

          2. Not So NewReader*

            Yeah, that is true and it’s been going on for decades. My father worked for Famous Company. He said never, ever leave your toaster/ toaster over plugged in. My geeky husband kind of chuckled at that. Then one day hubby had to repair ours. When he got it back together he said, “Your dad was right. Never, ever leave the toaster plugged in.”
            There was an article just recently talking about all the things that we leave plugged in and should not. For some reason they suck small amounts of electricity and increase our bills. Just another good reason to unplug.

      2. The IT Manager*

        I’ll be hones -; that’s often a safety thing / electrical load. I don’t think people’s electronic devises draw the same load as fans, heaters, or toasters (and toasters and heaters get hot and could cause fires).

        1. Natalie*

          In my experience at least, fans and toasters aren’t much of an issue. I can’t think of a tenant that’s ever overloaded the electrical with one. Heaters, on the other hand, are definitely an issue for a number of reasons. Microwaves, too, particularly since they often share a circuit with the fridge. We’ve started building out office with multiple circuits in the kitchen.

    6. Also Anon*

      WOW. That is .. WOW. I’m laughing. It’s so terrible I literally can not even process how a manager could think like that!

    8. Nanc*

      Careful, the next step is not flushing the toilets because that’s stealing the company water!

      What a maroon! (said in my best Bugs Bunny voice!)

      2. Dynamic Beige*

        Someone I knew in high school worked for a family-run store and she was required to leave a quarter in the washroom after she used the toilet.

    9. GOG11*

      Next he’ll be taking a thermal scanner around and threatening people who give off too much body heat that drives the AC costs up.

    10. CoffeeLover*

      Just be happy you don’t work for her and that your manager is a lot more reasonable.

    11. Apollo Warbucks*

      A guy on a train in london got arrested recently for pluging his phone in during a journey

        1. Merry and Bright*

          Sorry – that was meant as a reply way upthread. Something went wrong there…

        1. Apollo Warbucks*

          What amazed me was its a specific offence he was arrested for abstracting electricity.

          1. Natalie*

            Someone recently broke into a home and lived under a (non-occupied) bed for 3 days. They were charged with B&E and theft of electricity, since they had charged their phones.

      3. TheLazyB (UK)*

        Well yeah but apparently the plugs are clearly marked ‘do not use’ and there’s a high chance of anything pluged into them blowing if they’re used on a moving train.

        Arresting him was rather OTT though.

      4. Dynamic Beige*

        My favourite story is the one of the guy who walked on stage during a Broadway play to plug in his phone. He saw the outlet on the set and just went on up. The kicker was that it wasn’t real or plugged in to anything.

        Another one that’s always good is that when onsite for a conference, attendees are notorious for just walking up to anything plugged in and unplugging it. This doesn’t happen all the time, but there are enough “and he just walked right up and unplugged the switcher without asking. It took an hour to boot up and reprogram” style stories from people I know. Or the lights. Or the audio console. Or an amplifier. Or a plasma screen. Or a computer. Or someone else’s phone. It’s pretty much a guarantee that at some point, someone is going to want to borrow a cable for their iWhatever because they forgot the cable at home/in a cab/in their hotel room/on the plane/in their car.

    12. Not So NewReader*

      Actually, that is fairly normal in retail settings. You charge your phone in the backroom while you are working and that is considered stealing. Yes, you will lose your job over it.

  22. Library looker*

    I’m interested in hearing from those of you that work at libraries about how you got into the library industry, what kind of degree you have, and whether the industry is truly as oversaturated as they say. I’m 23, at the tail end of undergraduate (English), and thinking hard about going into library science. I worked for two years at my first college’s library at the front desk, and have contacted my local library to see if I can volunteer there as a page or something, but I’d like a little more information about library careers before I decide whether to apply for grad school.

    1. Christy*

      The job market is terrible. I got an MLS in 2011 and I work for the government, not anywhere near a library. My girlfriend got hers then as well and she’s a non-librarian staff member at a university library. Another friend works at a for-profit college for peanuts. Another works for Blackboard, doing sales. A few are academic librarians at universities. A few are public librarians. One is a prison librarian after years of underemployment. One is a barista. One interned for two years after her MLS and finally got a permanent job. One has been trying for years and still doesn’t have a job that pays a living wage. Many have moved to other areas for work. Many did intern-level work after graduation. Many had periods of unemployment.

      Unless you won’t survive without being a librarian, don’t go to library school. There are other careers with more options available to them.

      1. Christy*

        Also! It’s easiest to get a job as a librarian when you have a background in literally anything other than English. There’s a glut of English majors who want to be librarians. There aren’t enough biologists or chemists.

        1. Library looker*

          Haha, so basically, don’t do it! Thanks for all the advice. It sounds like the job market is just as bad for MLS degrees as it is for creative writing MFAs (which had been one of my other dreams). Hopefully I’ll get my library fix by volunteering.

          1. First year MLS student*

            Don’t be discouraged! I’d venture to say that the MLS is one of the most versatile grad degrees you can get.

            1. Natalie*

              That sounds an awful lot like something library schools tell students to get them to enroll in a program that is widely known to be an oversaturated market.

              1. fposte*

                It’s a little of both. The “I am a librarian at your local library” path is definitely oversaturated, but it really is a versatile degree. You just have to be aware that “versatile” means “stay open-minded and creative” and “still not guaranteeing a job.”

              2. Honeybee*

                And law schools, and MFA programs, and PhD programs, and basically any professional degree with mediocre to poor job prospects in the field most of its graduates want to enter.

                1. Natalie*

                  MBAs, too, I suspect. There are a lot of job prospects, but nearly enough for all those newly minted biz school grads.

      2. JMegan*

        I actually have the exact opposite experience – all of my friends from my MLS program got jobs in the field, and are still working there years later (except for the one who quit to become a SAHM.)

        I think it can be a tremendously useful degree, as long as you are open to the possibility that “library work” may not happen in a traditional library. Archives, records management, and information privacy/ information security are all related jobs, which you’ll often find in government and other highly-regulated industries.

        INALJ-dot-com (I Need a Library Job) is a great resource as well, to give you an idea of what’s out there. Good luck!

        2. Christy*

          Where did you go? I’ve heard that those from UNC have great success. I went to a top-10 program, but it seems to me that the programs that actually benefit you are UNC and Illinois.

          1. JMegan*

            University of Toronto. :) Sorry, should have mentioned that I’m in Canada, so there’s a bit of a YMMV there!

        3. Vanishing Girl*

          INALJ is a great resource! Most of the people I went to grad school with for info science are employed in a library somehow. I am currently in corporate media/tech using my degree, but I’m missing my life in archives and am looking to get back there with more skills.

          I did want to say that the archives field is even more closed and difficult to enter than other types of library-related work. Too many graduates, not enough full-time paying gigs, and you are competing with museum studies and history majors as well. But if you want to go that route, go to a library school with an archives track or specialization and that will help. Good luck!

    2. First year MLS student*

      http://hacklibraryschool.com/

      A blog written by MLS students for MLS students. There’s profiles of many MLS programs (http://hacklibraryschool.com/category/education-curriculum/hack-your-program/) and LOTS of tips/things to think about/things to look for when you’re considering library school.

      The grad degree you’d want is the MLS or a variation, from an ALA-accredited institution. A list is here: http://www.ala.org/accreditedprograms/directory/search

      Getting some volunteer or work experience in a library first is a good plan. Also, talk to people! You’re off to a good start with your question here :) Find a librarian at your alma mater and ask lots of questions: how they got into librarianship, any advice they have for folks interested in the profession. Find librarians/information professionals in different sectors–archives, public libraries, etc. Google libraries or library-type places, find the staff list, and send someone an introductory email. Most librarians I’ve come across are super kind and very willing to chat about their experiences.

      My background: I’ve always loved books and now I’m getting very interested in librarians as educators, information literacy, instruction, etc. I took a year out of undergrad and worked at a large libary for a year while I researched and applied to MLS programs.

      1. Vanishing Girl*

        These are all great ideas and advice!!

        I second this idea of talking to people! I did that before I applied to my IS program and it was so helpful to know whether I wanted to enter the field or not. Talk to people in a variety of environments and even see if you can volunteer someplace to learn more about it.

        The MLS is a very diverse degree that can be used in so many ways. For example, my work has absolutely nothing to do with books or patrons. So find out as much as you can about what jobs people actually get afterwards and have an idea of what you’d like going into it. I was very focused in school, and I feel that helped me plan and get the most out of my degree as compared to other students who were taking classes to fulfill the requirements but not sure how they’d use them. I don’t regret getting my degree, but I advise anyone thinking about it to do your research, meet people, and go into it without blinders on. Good luck! It is an exciting field, IMO.

      2. NoCalHR*

        My sister-in-law earned her MLS and snagged a school librarian job with the elementary school system. She adores it, has all the school holidays (including summer vacation!!), and wasn’t required to join the teachers’ union (a perq from her perspective). And of course, YMMV!

    3. SerfinUSA*

      I was just on a hiring committee for 2 lowish level library staff positions, no library degree required. We had quite a few with MLS or equivalent apply. It was sobering.

      1. Christy*

        Yup! My girlfriend’s job requires a GED. The jobs she’s applying for also only require a GED.

      2. miki*

        MLIS 2009, working for public university library (civil servant) Started as a library specialist and got a promotion last year to senior library specialist. What got me in: foreign language background : I’m in cataloging dept.
        I always say that this field is for people who like to help others, but not get payed much. Think carefully if you really want to do it.

        1. Christy*

          Yes! I totally agree with this. You really have to like helping others, and you really won’t get paid much. I outearn all of my library school peers because I do tech work for the government.

      3. Jennifer*

        My friend that works in a library complains about getting no support from higher-ups and that everyone there has been stagnating for years and they all apply frantically if any post opens up.

        (She thinks I can get a job in a library, but YEAH RIGHT.)

    4. Kelly L.*

      I worked at a library–not as a librarian–for a few months. It was…an experience. It was a local small-town library, and everyone there had carved out their niches and political rivalries 20 years before I ever got there. People got all Game of Thrones over it. Another setting might be completely different, of course.

    5. Anon for this*

      I was lucky enough to graduate and establish myself before the Great Recession, so I now hire and mentor recent grads. I feel more positive about the profession than Christy but her headcount of what her friends are doing sounds pretty typical to me.

      That said, there are *some* jobs and *somebody* is getting them. Who and how? I think it is the most stellar library grads (top 5% of the class) and often those with significant additional skills, which they probably got in some prior job (given that most MLS students did something else first). Think project management, data, community building, arts, etc. The highest paying jobs are in technology but those increasingly don’t require an MLS anyway.

      Your plan of volunteering is smart, but I would also think, hard, about what you would bring to a future job application other than an English degree and an MLS–everyone will have that.

    6. fposte*

      It also sounds like you might still be learning about what kinds of jobs people get with LIS degrees, and I’d encourage you to really dig around on library school websites, librarycareers dot org, etc., to get a better idea of the possibilities. And make sure you look at the information science side, too–that doesn’t mean you have to be a computer scientist, and it’s a more open area for career possibilities right now.

      (I’m at a library school, and we do still place our English-major-to-librarian people, but it is very competitive.)

    7. S*

      A close friend of mine completed a specialized library technology program at our community college. He was working at his public library on a sporadic basis already throughout the program and once he finished, they were able to make a full-time offer. Reading everyone else’s stories kinda confirms my feeling that he was incredibly lucky and knew the right people at the right library that had openings.

    8. Kelly*

      I finally got a job in a library after looking for over 5 years. It’s a paraprofessional position that if I’m really honest could be done by a grad student part time. It’s probably still a permanent staff position because we are currently having staffing issues and if my unit gives up a permanent position, we won’t get it back. I work in technical services and spend far more time doing public service duties than my predecessor did due to budget cuts. It wasn’t the position that was advertised during the hiring process and interview two years ago. Due to the increase in having to work the desk and no raises for another two years, I recently applied for another position that’s similar to my job description in the Midwest that should pay more and have minimal public service duties.

      The academic library I work for just put in place a partial hiring freeze because of budget cuts. Any positions that are posted are open to internal applicants only and are positions that must be filled ASAP. I know the institution I work for isn’t the only one with hiring freezes. My alma mater also put into place a hiring freeze that had just been lifted only 2 years ago.

      I think that having customer service experience is important. Even in an academic library, the majority of interactions with patrons are directional or technical. Most of the questions I answer are where are the bathrooms or where are the shelving areas. It’s a bit absurd how we can’t have directional signage because it interferes with the aesthetics of the building. I still get questions on how to access email and how to use our scanners.

      I also think we are more open to the public than some academic libraries. We don’t require an university login to use the computers and are an open access library, which is becoming a problem. There has been an increase in certain individuals who have no academic affiliation sitting at our computers all day. There’s also some concern that once winter hits we may have more homeless coming into sleep during the day. Due to budget cuts, there’s no longer 24/7 access to the building, but part of that may have been a preemptive measure at discouraging the homeless/transient population from sleeping in the building overnight if they can’t get into a shelter overnight.

      1. miki*

        @ Kelly: reading description of your library: do you work at my library ? -> (I also think we are more open to the public than some academic libraries. We don’t require an university login to use the computers and are an open access library, which is becoming a problem. There has been an increase in certain individuals who have no academic affiliation sitting at our computers all day.)

    9. Seal*

      Academic librarian and department head here. While the job market is not great, there are jobs available in librarianship. The key is to make sure that you find your niche and have the appropriate skill set. General reference librarians are a dime a dozen, but there is demand for librarians with a science background in particular. Good catalogers or metadata specialists are always in demand, as are those who specialize in digital projects, data or GIS.

      So if you do choose to go to library school find opportunities to specialize, both in the classes you take as well as through internships and volunteer opportunities. Look for programs that offer the opportunity to pursue a second masters degree in conjunction with your MLIS, particularly if you plan to work in an academic library. Gather useful, transferable skills such as coding or Photoshop as you work on your degree. Join library associations (which generally offer discount memberships to students) and get involved. Make yourself marketable and make yourself stand out amongst the other would-be librarians who majored in English and you’ll get a job.

      1. Cristina in England*

        This.
        The standard vision of “librarian” is very saturated but metadata specialists and cataloguers can get into some interesting niches supporting research projects or companies in many different fields, and if you can take some electives on basic programming, you can really find yourself with expanded options. One of the areas I’ve gotten into in my most recent job is data visualization. I would love to learn programming skills (like regex and perl) because I see “big data” and data visualization as really interesting areas that join information science with pretty much any other field: journalism, agricultural science, business… honestly, so many more that I can’t even name them.

    10. SerfinUSA*

      Also good to sign onto an ALA job list if possible. I see a lot of openings for tech-related positions. Lots of digital initiative type buzzwords in the listings. Anyway, looking at postings might help with picking a direction, even though things will change rapidly.

    11. Demanding Excellence*

      After I graduated with my bachelor’s degree, my first professional job was as a reference librarian at my hometown’s public library. It was a small town (25,000 people) and the source of the town’s only computer lab/cafe, so needless to say it was very well utilized. I lasted about a year, and it was a very interesting experience. (I have terrific stories from my library years – I told one earlier this week in fact.)

      My degree is in journalism/PR, so I was able to parlay my research and communication skills into the reference library position pretty well.

      I haven’t worked at a library in several years, so take this advice for what it’s worth, but I would recommend trying to find a position at small town library that’s close to where you’re living now, if at all possible. The positions typically aren’t well-paid, but you can get some great experience. Good luck!

    12. Ragnelle*

      I have an M.A. in English and sort of stumbled into an awesome public library job. I started going to a library program when I moved to my current small city, and the library director encouraged me to apply for a temporary paraprofessional position doing reference, customer service, and programs. The job turned permanent when another person left the department, and then I got a promotion to an outreach position. An MLS was preferred for the position, but I convinced the decision-makers that what they needed was a professional communicator (and got the job over two MLS-holders). I work with awesome people and develop my own projects. I’ve considered getting an MLS solely to keep moving up the ladder, especially if I ever move. I do realize my career trajectory is not normal and that my library is probably not normal.

      Here are few things to keep in mind as you consider your next steps:
      -It’s better to get experience before getting the degree (makes you a better library school and library job candidate)
      -It matters A LOT where you live–if you want to live in a major urban area, you will face super low salaries compared to COL and a tough job market
      -All libraries are different, so ask lots of different people about their experiences
      -If you can get hired at a library, see if they have an MLS assistance program where they will pay a portion of your tuition in return for a number of years of service

      I love working in libraryland, even though I’ll never get paid much to do so. Best of luck to you, no matter what you decide!

      1. Christy*

        I would specify that it’s better to get non-library experience before getting the degree. Sometimes, there can be an issue where if someone has been non-librarian staff in a library, even after they get an MLS, they’ll still be seen as “staff”. This particularly happened in a few public and academic libraries I’ve heard about.

        But non-library experience is really helpful when you’re job-searching.

        1. Mimmy*

          I think this is what a friend of mine has experienced. She pursued her MLS while working at a university library (I think mainly front desk and shelving?). She got the degree a few years ago, yet she is still at this same job. She also has an infant daughter, so I think she’s dialed the job searching back because of that.

      2. skyline*

        -It matters A LOT where you live–if you want to live in a major urban area, you will face super low salaries compared to COL and a tough job market
        I would agree that location matters, and that salaries can be laughably bad in some metro ares. I would note that regional pay differences tend to trump urban/suburban/rural pay differences. In general, I would say that salaries are the best on the west coast.

    13. Tomato Frog*

      I’m an archivist with an MLS. I graduated two years ago and as far as I know, all my classmates who were willing to move for a job, have a job in the field. I would guess some took about a year to find a job, though.

      1. fposte*

        Oh, good point. A lot of people have two obstacles: they can’t move for a job, and they’re looking near the library school, so they’re competing with all the other graduates who can’t move.

        1. Anx*

          I was about to say, I see tons of openings in my current location for library jobs. There isn’t an MLIS program at my school and we live in a rural area without a lot of literary culture.

    14. grumpy career changer*

      Good on you for doing some research in advance. I would be very leery of going to library school straight out of undergrad. Get some professional experience in project management or usability testing first. Also, consider very carefully whether it is worth paying for yourself. Yes, it’s hard to get funding (or tuition remission), but if you can get funding that would be a good sign.

      I did not get funding. I had a bad day at work, applied for the local MLIS program on a — not a whim, I’d been considering it for years, but definitely as a result of a terrible interaction with my boss, and decided to pay for it myself. I regret it sometimes — like this week, when a contact somewhere I’d like to work interviewed me then left me hanging.

      Whole story: she contacts me (we know each other through a professional organization) to ask me to apply for a part-time, temporary job. I say sure, she asks for a cover letter, schedules and does a thirty-minute interview the next business day, tells me the (supposedly very strict) timeline for when the temporary job will start, then ignores me until after the start date. She only tells me someone else was hired when I followed up a second time.

      Sure, from reading this site, I know that I should accept that sometimes timing changes. But when someone recruits me to apply, based on a pre-existing relationship, I expect that professional courtesy would mean keeping me updated about changes in the process. Maybe that’s unrealistic, and the power dynamic between applicant and hiring manager is just that way. Or maybe there really was a series of unavoidable delays and the contact who had enough time to reach out to me and get me to apply didn’t have enough time to let me know.

      The kicker? All this back-and-forth for a job that pays $11.50/hour, which is less than a quarter of my rate in my current profession.

      So, take my comments about librarianship with a grain of salt; I’m a bit grumpy right now. But I think my first advice — get some relevant professional experience first, then decide if you want to continue in that field — is good, regardless of my current grumpiness!

      Good luck with your decision.

    15. Language Lover*

      I went to library school kind of blind. I didn’t have library experience but I felt like it’d be a good way to work around schools/universities where I always felt more natural than a business.

      I ended up being lucky because I work full-time as a professional librarian. I say lucky because the only experience I had was an internship during grad school. I got my first librarian job because I had a background in high school teaching, which helped for an instruction position, I happened to know a librarian leaving her position who recommended me and I was willing to move to a place I really had no interest in moving to.

      I eventually was able to move back to my preferred place to live. I do think graduates who wanted to or had to stay in the area with an MLIS degree granting school are making it much harder on themselves. I find that to be true with almost any professional school. I do worry what I would do if I ever lost this job. I don’t know how many transferrable skills I have. And budgets are being slashed. In my library, positions that used to be professional librarians are being reconstructed as paraprofessional positions. Business thinking is starting to invade higher ed and libraries are pretty much pure cost centers.

      There are MLIS graduates who will highly discourage anyone thinking of getting the degree to pursue one. It’s certainly not an easy job field to enter. I’m not that discouraging. Rather, I encourage people entering the program to be realistic and do research such as informational interviews, to read job ads, to develop skills you might not get taught in grad school like technical skills, marketing, outreach, instruction…etc.

    16. Mimmy*

      As others have pointed out, the job market for ML(I)S graduates can be really tough, but it sounds doable depending on what type of library you want to work at, any areas of specialty, and whether you’re willing to consider work outside of the traditional library setting. The links others provided are a great start.

      I was actually considering library work myself awhile back; in particular, I was interested in either an academic library or a resource library (in my one post-MSW job, I was briefly the librarian while they were looking to replace the full-time Information & Resources Specialist who had resigned; one of the I&R Specialist’s duties was to maintain the resource library and track borrowed items). However, after seeing how much trouble my friend, who I mentioned upthread, was having in her job search and a conversation I had with the social work librarian at my university, I gave up on the idea. I am such a resources nerd, though, and still sometimes wish I could scratch that itch somehow.

    17. pony tailed wonder*

      I am a paraprofessional at an academic library. I love my job but I don’t expect to get rich while working in a library. Some of my co-workers below me qualify for food stamps. Raises are practically non-existent.

      At my library, a curious thing is happening and I am not sure of how I feel about it. We are hiring a lot of people who have masters or doctorates in other areas than library science to fill niche roles. It has both positive and negatives to it. I really want to see the long term effects on this before I pass judgement.

      If you are on facebook, there is a group called the ALA Think Tank there that might also be able to give you some advice.

    18. Briefly anon*

      Public library middle manager here. My take on the market is that it really depends. The top candidates are having no problem getting jobs, even fresh out of the library school. Our hiring pools for professional positions are often disappointing, though there are many applicants. And I am in a big organization with competitive salaries in what’s considered a nice part of the country.

      The main mistakes that I see library students making: (1) Thinking that the degree by itself guarantees a job. (2) Being inflexible about their position requirements. If you only want to work in certain cool cities–many of which have library schools churning out hundreds of MLIS degrees every year–you’re going to be in trouble unless you are the cream of the crop. If you only want to work for your hometown library, you’re going to have a hard time, too. (3) Failing to present themselves in a professional manner. I see so many truly embarrassing resumes and cover letters, and most of the interviews are not that much better.

      I think it’s a really good idea to get experience before you decided on grad school. Quality non-library work experience will also help–both in applying to grad school, and later in applying for actual professional library jobs once you have the degree.

      There are still jobs out there. I graduated at the height of the recession and many of my classmates got full-time jobs within months of graduation and have been steadily employed since. But I had a strong resume, was willing to move, and apparently do a pretty good interview. (On a side note, I was also an English major, so English-majors-turned-librarians aren’t necessarily hard sells. But I did have 5 years of solid, professional work experience between undergrad and grad school in my favor, too.)

    19. A*

      I graduated from library school in August of 2008. I started a full-time librarian job in January of 2009. I was very particular about the kind of jobs I applied for (FT, children’s) although I was willing to move basically anywhere in my state.

      The most important thing is PAID library experience. I started as a shelver, then got promoted to circulation (started my MLS), then got promoted to youth services paraprofessional (about halfway through my MLS). Then I finished my MLS and applied for about 3 jobs. I interviewed for 2 of them in the same week and accepted one. (I was the second choice for the other one, told it was very close but they went with someone who also spoke another language that they had a large number of community members who spoke.)

      I think I got promoted so quickly because I am extremely personable and hard-working. I also was honest about wanting to move up (and always volunteered to help with projects outside my job duties when my regular work was done.) but patient about it.

      I’m now,7 years after graduating, a youth services department head, which was my goal all along.

      I also filled out my resume by writing a professional blog and getting involved with my state’s library association (serious discount for students).

  23. Lisa*

    I just found out that the average promotion at my company takes 4-5 years with only 2% increases like COL so no merit-based raises apparently. Headquarters is in Pittsburgh, and Boston doesn’t work like that. We are used to promotions within 1-2 years and increases of 5-15% in our industry.

    Now we have to be happy with being on a ‘Pittsburgh’ schedule and their rules vs. market rates and what is normal for our industry in Boston. It will take me 4 more years to get promoted here, and I’ll end up being 20k behind my peers by then with only 2% increases. Apparently promotions only mean 5% increases too vs. paying market rate for the new job title.

    Getting acquired sucks. Especially, since our office is trying to fix delayed promotions in Pittsburgh. So 5 promotions there means that no one from Boston can be promoted yet. Why is everything so archaic that we have to ‘wait our turn’ vs. being treated as a valuable employee that deserves recognition regardless of seniority? Headquarters will always be favored then.

    1. Bea W*

      This is exactly what happened to my company when it was acquired, good-bye merit-based increases and promotions! People jokingly refer to our annual increases as “pay cuts” because they don’t keep pace with COL or the industry. :(

      Don’t even get me started on the “harmonization” efforts and the constant restructuring. I stay because I love what I do here. I think about leaving because I’m starting down 20-30 years of not making much headway in career progression or salary if I stay (and having to eventually move into new offices without cubicles – rumor is we’re going to the open table crap. God I hope that is only a rumor!)

      1. Lisa*

        Yeah, HR claims they look at market rates for positions often, but I don’t buy it. I think it’s lip service. No one is going to willingly agree that you are underpaid thousands and suddenly start paying you that. I have to move on. It sucks, but I do. I hate that.

    2. Ashley K.*

      Best way to get a raise is to find a new job. :(

      Best of luck to you. Restructures like that are incredibly frustrating, especially when the markets of HQ differ from your office.

    3. CoffeeLover*

      I’m starting a new job and I’m kicking myself because I didn’t ask about their policy for raises and promotions. I’m in an industry where a significant pay increase happens after your first year, so I kind of assumed I would be getting that, but now I’m not so sure.

  24. edj3*

    Quick update on my question last week about critical deadlines, huge workloads and an overworked team:

    Snacks: I brought in a variety of snacks on Monday and they were a hit—since we’ve had issues with the cleaning crews taking snacks that are out in the open, I put them in an unlocked drawer and made sure everyone knew where they were and to help themselves, and they did! Bonus is now I know what their favorites were so if we are ever in this situation again, I know what to get. But I will use all my influence and energy to never do this again.

    W@H: I’ve always thought working from home is perfectly fine most of the time and have continued letting people do that. Apparently my predecessor had a one day a week limit but I believe and have told my team that we are adults and as long as the work is getting done, I’ll almost always grant permission to work from home. What’s most gratifying is that one person knows working from home isn’t a good option for him—he says he gets distracted and that he’s not as productive—and so he works here. That’s exactly the kind of self awareness I appreciate.

    Why the deadline matters: I told my team why the deadline matters and how much extra cost we would incur if we miss it. I’m not sure they’d ever been told the dollars and cents behind deadlines.

    Recognition: I used our internal rewards program this week—I wanted those rewards to hit now, when they are doing so much, and got several comments about how they love being appreciated.

    Vacation: I’ve already gotten requests for vacation next month and have been able to accommodate those requests. Knowing that they’ll get a break soon is helping, too.

    Our big deadline is next week and yesterday the mood on the team shifted. I heard more laughter, and saw a more relaxed attitude rather than the overwhelming tension I’d been seeing. No, the work isn’t finished, but I believe we are going to make our deadlines.

    Thank you all for your very helpful suggestions. I really appreciate it.

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        Do you want my real answer? I’m a huge curmudgeon, and I will always avoid that kind of thing here because there’s too much we don’t know. It’s the same reason I’m always surprised when people say things like “I’d hire you!” in response to a single anecdote from someone; someone could be great on X but bad on Y. We rarely have enough info here to truly know the whole picture.

        (None of which is about edj3, of course!!)

        1. edj3*

          Yup. And while I do appreciate the kind words, the fact is there’s always room for improvement. That’s why I keep reading here and asking questions.

        2. These are live servitors under transient control.*

          I concur. These things will often turn into popularity contests. And – something that I think is sometimes forgotten here is that Alison is the person who actually has the Big Brain full of management information. Sure, any of us in the AAM community can offer suggestions or relate stories. But if Rachel Randomperson comes here looking for help, she needs to be careful to note the difference between what Alison advises and what (for instance) i might advise.

          Having said that – I think it might be nice if AAM moved to software that was more along the lines of StackExchange / StackOverflow, where answers are voted upon and ranked, and there is some ability to observe the history and “wisdom” of a person .

          And, while I’m just blue-skying around, I think that Alison and AAM are sorta hovering about a critical career decision point: around now is when she may want to consider a) getting an agent, b) writing a book (somewhere prescriptive, not a how-to) based on c) a cause that she believes in which needs support. Then she does the talk-show circuit with John Stewart and John Oliver. This can all be done without selling-out – I’m loosely using Dan Savage as a model for what I described previously, and while opinions vary, I think Dan has largely kept his head on his shoulders.

          And the idea here isn’t just to make more money. It’s primarily to cement Allison in the next tier of management experts. And I would personally like to see that happen because a) Alison has competition and b) they suck while c) Alison does a really good job of combining rationality, clear writing, and some sense of fairness into advice that tries to balance the needs of the business and the needs of the employee. Oh and d) did I mention clear writing? There is a blessed lack of bullshit platitudes or trendy mgmt buzzwords in her advice.

          In the words of former Head of the KGB Nikolai Jakov: “Eez ween-ween”. Alison gets a career bmp, more businesses and managers acknowledge and practice her concepts, and in theory this leads to higher morale and better business, maybe even a better economy (I said this was blue-sky).

            1. These are live servitors under transient control.*

              Cool!

              I’m no kind of expert on this, but I think you should get an agent first. Is there anyone in “the biz” that you trust, who could talk to you about it? Offhand, I’d be concerned with a) protecting your name (and, alas – cause I know you hate this – your brand), and b) ensure that writing a book is only *part* of an overall strategy.

              Okay, I’ll shut up now :)

              1. Ask a Manager* Post author

                An agent actually reached out to me last year and I talked to her a bit. I’m not sure I actually want to do a lot of what she recommended though — public speaking and appearances and the like. That sounds onerous to me. Really I’d like someone to just give me a radio show someday; that’s my dream and the only thing I’m really interested in doing beyond what I’m doing now. (Even with the idea of doing another book, I’m not sure. I make a lot more with the ebook I sell myself on this site than I’d be likely to make via traditional publishing, so I question whether it’s worth the time and work. I am lazy!)

    2. Ad Astra*

      What’s most gratifying is that one person knows working from home isn’t a good option for him—he says he gets distracted and that he’s not as productive—and so he works here.

      I am totally that person! I would love the option to occasionally work from home if the weather made it dangerous to drive, or I really needed to be home for some reason, but I never get as much done and my setup at home isn’t very conducive to WFH anyway.

      I’m so glad to hear last week’s suggestions helped!

    6. Not So NewReader*

      Good on you, edj3. Well done! And you will harvest what goodwill you have sown here.

  25. Beebs*

    Working as a remote staff person in a small org has had a lot of challenges. We have a team gathering coming up where we present on our projects and discuss how we can improve or what we have learned. I started as a remote person and don’t have much relationship or interaction with most of the team. I work on my own project but there are components of what we do that overlap and we can certainly learn from each other and support other projects. This has been a true struggle for me as I feel very isolated and unsupported in my role. I had expected a much greater degree of mentorship and collaboration as was detailed to me during the interview and offer stage. None of this has come to fruition and I am beyond frustrated and honestly apathetic at this point.

    My question is, do I bring up the challenges of being in my position at this team gathering? In an ideal world they would hear my concerns and actively work on improving the situation, but realistically I think it would fall on deaf ears and if anything lead to perfunctory changes. I am not sure if discussing this will lead to any improvements or just make things worse for me.

    1. Sad & Remote*

      No suggestions, just empathy. The people I talk to about feeling isolated when being remote are kind, but they don’t seem to fully understand it. I’ve tried bringing up my concerns to my team as well, but nothing has come of it. Not saying that you shouldn’t consider bringing this up to the rest of your team, but I didn’t experience much improvement.

      1. Beebs*

        Sorry to hear you are also dealing with this. I think part of the problem is they really do not understand how this impacts the organization so when I try to articulate my position and give examples, their solutions make no sense. Ex: we need to communicate strategy better and nuances – solution: everyone use the calendaro more.

        1. Sad & Remote*

          “Use the calendar more”???? Hahaha! I’m laughing but can totally see someone seeing that as a solution to your concern.

          Do you feel that as a remote employee, the rest of the team forgets you are there, and that’s why they are not looping you in? I don’t have a suggestion for “make sure you remember the ‘forgotten’ remote team members on emails/calls/meetings”, but if anyone has seen this resolved at their own org, I’d love to know how they did it.

          1. Beebs*

            They forget me all the time, at first I knew I’d have to do the heavy lifting and keep reaching out to people, but it gets old, fast. I send random updates and try to connect the team to various things I’m working on, but it’s usually met with no response or acknowledgment whatsoever.

      2. Sad & Remote*

        I should add that if you have a good manager, it’s worth it to bring it up. I told my boss about my concerns as well, and she was the only one who tried to address them — by allowing team members to come and support me when possible. Unfortunately, that only helped when my coworkers were here….when they left, the isolation and lack of communication returned. The problem is that I would like to go to my manager with a solution (not a problem), but can’t think of one. Everyone I work with is very busy and manufacturing some forced collaboration probably wouldn’t work very well.
        Like edj3 says, is there a way that you could feel more included?

      3. Lisa*

        Its not just when you are remote, but also when most of the office is remote. Those left behind also feel very alone. I talk to the remote people more on IM than the ones in the office. Everyone stays in their cubes.

    2. edj3*

      Do you have ideas about what steps could be taken that would result in feeling more included? That might be a good place to start.

      1. Beebs*

        I have been mentioning things for months that could help improve dynamics. When support or input is requested from me on other projects it is usually when things are going wrong, so I said that if I were to be looped into the conversations earlier I could make thoughtful suggestions that could help avoid getting to that point. The issue is that we very much work in silos, and fostering a collaborative spirit is hard when you are physically removed from the team, and even when I proactively ask questions to help support other teams, I get vague responses. Doesn’t seem like anyone has a good solution, and the non remote staff are clueless to what it is like for us.

    3. Former Office Superstar*

      I am dealing with this exact issue now and went the direct route of talking with my boss and HR about the lack of professional development. It’s only been a few days so not much progress has been made, but here is what has happened since:

      1) my boss now makes a point of acknowledging me every day and inviting me to social events (coffee run, lunch, etc.)

      2) When asked by HR what a successful resolution to my issues would look like, I clearly said, “I want to get back on the road.” Less than 12 hours later I received an email from my boss saying my request to attend an out-of-state conference was denied.

      3) Department head–who has never bothered to give me the time of day–suddenly wants to “connect” over coffee or lunch.

      Being that a large part of my issues with working at this company is that people ask for your opinion then get defensive (I have been reamed out in meetings several times for honestly answering) so I, too, a skeptical that anything will change.

      So you have my sympathies. Just know you are not alone.

      1. Beebs*

        Thanks for sharing. My reluctance is that I don’t think this team has the understanding or capacity to be high functioning, especially with remote staff. I am so disappointed in this experience, it was not at all what I signed up for, no growth or development, no support, complete isolation. I have also learned that there is considerable incompetance at the higher levels, which honestly just makes me really sad and deflated.

  26. Hermione*

    UGH job searching is the worst. Does anybody have any tips for getting through it more… calmly? It’s SO frustrating.

    1. Ad Astra*

      Try setting aside specific blocks of time to work on job searching, and then fill the rest of your day with all the stuff you’d rather be doing. It helped me focus on the good things in my life instead of keeping my job search at top of mind every waking moment.

    2. Jerzy*

      It’s popular to say that job searching is itself a full-time job, but that’s a problem if you’re already working a full-time job, and if you’re not, you still can’t just spend 8 hours a day everyday sending out resumes.

      I had a job I HATED, and I started looking for something new about a year in. It took me TWO years to finally find something. During that time, I made myself physically ill (stress lead to an increase in migraines, insomnia, etc.).

      If I had to do it all over again, I’d just keep telling myself to breathe, and set realistic goals (apply to x number of jobs per week, reach out to x number of contacts, etc.) and not stress about what’s outside of my control. Meditation. Herbal teas.

      And maybe a good punching bag for when zen just isn’t going to work.

    3. Bangs not Fringe*

      I’ve finally taken Allison’s advice about letting go. I keep a spreadsheet of all the positions I apply to and I keep a copy of the position descriptions. But as soon as I apply for a position, I try my best to let it go and move on. I try not to stress about the things I can’t control and I definitely can’t control what happens after I hit submit.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        Me too, and I used mornings for that stuff and then had afternoons to myself. I almost always took interview slots in the morning too, if offered, so I didn’t pace around the house nervously and make myself crazy.

    4. Sunflower*

      Don’t over or under commit yourself. I’m a big fan of committing to apply to X amount of jobs/week. Also it can be helpful to mix up actual online applications with things like networking events. I agree with the spreadsheet idea- that’s what I do and try to move on after you apply.

    5. Sara*

      Relieve your stress through exercise. On days when I don’t exercise, job-hunting stress keeps me awake for hours at night. I am three months into my job search and I would probably be a puddle of sadness on the floor if I didn’t go running or hit the gym everyday.

      (The other way I get through it is by enjoying my job, but I realize that not everyone has that luxury. [I’m job hunting because I’m underemployed, not because I’m miserable at work.])

    6. Anonymousterical*

      I quit without anything lined up in early April and was hired at a wonderful place in a wonderful industry by mid-June. In moments of “I’LL NEVER BE EMPLOYED AGAIN!” panic, I just reminded myself that of course I would be employed again. Try not to let yourself catastrophize about worse case scenarios, and try not to go looking for unemployment horror stories (e.g., the ones about it taking years and years to find something). In my area, it took a good 30-40 days for companies to start calling back on my earliest applications, so try not to freak out at the radio silence. Job boards suck on Monday and anytime before 11 a.m., so I usually focused my hunting on Tuesday-Thursday, from 12p-3p. I also focused on companies I really, really wanted to work for and applied for jobs through their Website (the job I have now was not posted on any job board). Good luck!

  27. Retail Lifer*

    I had a couple of great interviews for a job with less pay (but manageable) and a MUCH easier commute, but the insurance is going to be twice what I pay now. That’s a no go when coupled with the pay cut. I’ve been advised on here before not to ask about insurance early on in the process, but I just wasted more time off on something that ultimately won’t work out. I know it’s bad form, but I really need to get this info up front. I’ve found insurance ranges from $40 to $350 per month…and the negotiation range isn’t normally that high to account for the upper end.

  28. Ali*

    How can I best decide where to spend my money for professional development when I’m underemployed and can’t put in hundreds of dollars a month? I decided the other day to try and change up my strategy a little since it’s been a year of searching and I still don’t have an offer after several interviews. Since I would like a job in marketing or communications, here are the options I’ve come up with:

    -Adobe Creative Cloud membership: Adobe programs are in demand for a lot of these jobs, so it might be worth it for me to download the software and teach myself.

    -Lynda.com: I know this has been talked about on AAM before, and it looks like a valuable resource for me to pick up on extra skills such as email marketing. Plus I’ve read really good reviews on it. Downside being that some employers may not care that I’m teaching myself things because I didn’t use them in a job setting.

    -LinkedIn Premium: An ex-boss suggested this to me, as he has a Premium account, but I am mixed on how necessary it really is. The ability to send InMail would be great, though.

    In order to have one of these things, I am dropping my membership to a freelance writers’ site that’s currently $25 a month. I just don’t see myself going the freelance route. Much as I’ve tried to get excited about it, going it alone scares me and I can’t seem to get over that fear. In the end, I’d rather have an employer and benefits.

    1. Christy*

      It seems to me like your skills are sufficient to get you to the interview stage. I assume you’ve read Alison’s interview guide. I wonder if there is a way for you to work on your interview skills. Could you benefit from joining Toastmasters or something similar?

      1. Ali*

        I have tried practicing my interview skills. In fact, one of the last rejections I got, I got feedback that I interviewed well but they took a more experienced candidate. So while more practice is always beneficial, I like to think that means I’m fairly proficient.

        1. Christy*

          That’s great! I don’t think professional development is going to help with seeming more experienced, though. In that case, I think Ad Astra and fposte have great advice.

    2. Retail Lifer*

      Coursera has free courses, and for $35 (I think?) you can get a “badge” for your LinkedIn page. I don’t know how impressive that is, but it’s a one-time fee that’s not too bad.

    3. Ad Astra*

      I think LinkedIn Premium is going to be a waste of your money. Adobe Creative Cloud or Lynda.com might be worth the investment, but only if you think you’ll be able to produce some kind of sample document to show what you’ve learned. And only if you know you’ll have the discipline to actually do the lessons regularly, which was always an issue for me.

      If you have the time, I’d encourage you to seek out volunteer positions that involve writing or marketing. Helping your local animal shelter (or Boys and Girls Club or whatever charity) with social media or some basic marketing could get your some relevant experience while you’re doing a day job that’s unrelated.

    4. fposte*

      I think that it would be a mistake to sink money into something unless you knew how it would benefit where you wanted to go. For instance, if you’re looking to apply in a particular area that you’re fairly strong in and you know that they’re seeking people who know Access and you don’t, a lynda course on Access could make sense. Just taking one because people seem to like it and it might look good on your resume wouldn’t.

      Self-taught or self-initiated coursework can soften a reservation, but it’s not going to have huge value (it’s not the same as doing it for work), so I’d recommend being both strategic and realistic about spending on it.

    5. Lizabeth*

      You “might” be able to pick up an older version of Adobe’s Creative Suite that doesn’t require a Cloud membership but it may be more than you want to pay for it – check eBay. A lot of people on the forum I read were not happy about Adobe’s business model change (including me, have 5.5 at home and still on 4 at work with no chance of an update there anytime soon). You might consider taking an actual class at a community college where you’ve got access to the programs and computer labs.

      1. Dynamic Beige*

        I’m with Lizabeth. Seriously, if you’re going to drop a $25/month membership because you don’t think you want to do it, with Creative Cloud, you’ll be paying potentially a lot more… and you have to keep paying it if you want to use the tools. I think there’s a 30 day (it might be longer) free trial. But, if you’re not sure, just try to find old NIB (new in box) versions on eBay of the things you want to try. There’s lots of stuff out there for old versions. I’m pretty sure if you bought Photoshop 7, you could pick up a used copy of Photoshop 7 Wow! Book — uh, huh you can buy it for $0.01 + $3.99 shipping — if you prefer to work from books.

        There are also sites like Udemy that offer online video training. If you sign up, you get on their newsletter and they often have times when all (or most) of their courses are offered for $10 lifetime access. There were 516 paid results and 58 free ones on a search for Photoshop. With Lynda, I think you pay a membership fee per month and you get all the courses, with Udemy, you pay for the courses you want to take once (OK, twice — one I signed up for recently upgraded and I had to pay an additional $10 to get the new stuff)

    6. Headachey*

      Also, for lynda.com, see if your local public library system gives you access to this – mine does, and I’ve found some of the courses to be quite helpful. Nothing I’d list on a resume as an accomplishment or skill (if I haven’t used it in the workplace), but definitely a way to beef up my understanding of a new program.

    7. Julianne*

      Free certification/online training is offered by Google Analytics, Hootsuite (I think you might have to sign up for a free trial, but you can complete the course in that time) and Hubspot (Inbound marketing). These aren’t going to magically get you a job, but will give you some insight into the tools marketers use. Plus, free! If you are looking for volunteer ops, check out Catchafire. Good luck!

      I am exploring the freelance route – would you mind sharing the name of the site? Thanks!

    8. grumpy career changer*

      Some public libraries offer Lynda.com access (not just onsite, but if you log in through the library’s website). My library does this — but you have to log in through the library’s site, not through the Lynda.com organizational login page. Might be worth checking out.

  29. Anoninterviewer*

    I’m supposed to interview someone whose resume I personally would have passed over. I’m not seeing the amount relevant of experience we normally look for to fill this position, and the couple years of related experience this person does have was 4+ years ago. I’m a bit baffled how it made it through screening for an experienced level position in our group. Her skill sets and job history as reported on the resume is mostly in a totally different area from what we do.

    *scratches head*

    1. PurpleMonkeyDishwasher*

      Can you talk to whoever made the call that she would be interviewed beforehand to find out what they saw in her that warranted interviewing? Maybe that’ll help inform your conversation with her.

    2. Ad Astra*

      If you haven’t already, I’d talk to whoever decided to interview this candidate. Maybe they know something about the candidate that isn’t on her resume, or she comes highly recommended by someone important, or your colleague is really interested in some specific skill or experience the candidate has that you find less interesting or important. Or, maybe there’s a dearth of truly impressive applications coming in? Your colleague might have some good insight, and you’ll feel better if you’re on the same page.

      1. Anoninterviewer*

        I talked to the HM but it was before I got the candidate’s materials. I assumed the relevant experience was present experience. I think you and Purple (above) have the right idea though, and I’ll need to revisit to get more information not just on the candidate but what work/role she’s see a new hire taking on. The HM might be thinking of assigning this person work that she thinks fits well with this person’s different experience.

        This is a good lesson on why interviewers should be reading at least the resume and doing some prep before going into an interview. Based on the information I have I want to ask some different questions or go in a slightly different direction with some of the questions I would normally ask someone with typical experience.

        It’s entirely possible this person got laid off 3 years ago, and has been taking advantage of her experience from her first career as a widget maker to stay employed while looking for another job in her second career as a tea pot spout designer. That’s what the latest portion of her job history reads like to me. There is a period about 16 years in one career, then a clear transition that lines up with getting a second degree and then 5 years working in various roles for two companies in my industry, and then all heck breaks loose.

        After writing the above paragraph, I did a quick search, and her last relevant employer cut 20% of its workforce the same year she left that job. Ouch.

    3. fposte*

      Happens pretty commonly in committee situations, I think. I like the idea of talking to whoever it is that moved the application along–sometimes they have a perspective that you’re not seeing.

        1. fposte*

          Could be, but in my hiring committee experience it’s pretty common to have people to see the pool in really different ways and prioritize things differently.

        2. Anoninterviewer*

          That did cross my mind, but this hiring manager has been up front previously about any pre-existing relationship she’s had with a candidate. So I don’t think it’s the likely case here.

  30. Elizabeth*

    Happy Friday all!

    Good news: I scored a first (Skype) interview with a great company that produces a very popular video game. I don’t play this particular game, though my boyfriend does, so I’ve learned a bit about it through osmosis, and obviously I’ve been reading up a lot more (as well as sitting in on BF’s games and completing the tutorial) in the last couple days since getting the phone call. Interview is first thing Monday morning.

    The job posting mentioned being a big fan of the game as being important, and while I made it clear that I’m not super-familiar with it but am willing and eager to learn, I’m still nervous that I’m out of my depth and I’m going to get some obscure game-related questions thrown at me.

    On the other hand, they know I don’t have a ton of experience, and presumably if that was an insurmountable hurdle, they wouldn’t have set up an interview with me. And if this job does require minute understanding of the game right off the bat, I’m probably not the best fit anyway.

    I guess I’m not so much asking a question as seeking some reassurance for my pre-interview nerves. :)

    1. voluptuousfire*

      Keep in mind that they brought you in for an interview because your resume shows you’re qualified. Don’t worry too much!

    2. Lucky*

      I’ve worked in games, and in my experience “being a big fan of the game” can just mean “being one of us” which is more about fit than being a player, and being able to connect with your player base. I’d be straight up about having only begun to play the game, but demonstrate your knowledge of the culture surrounding the game. If it’s an mmorpg, talk about player dynamics, connectivity, in-game currency – whatever aspects of the game that would be particularly important to your role. If it’s fantasy based, see if you can throw in a Game of Thrones reference (if you’re a fan). Check out message boards that discuss the game (i.e., Reddit – ugh) and see what’s important to the fans.

      1. Elizabeth*

        Thanks! It’s actually an event coordinator role, so I’d be be handling logistics for recruiting events, “community events” (tournaments), etc. So deep content knowledge of the game probably isn’t AS important were I in software development or something, but obviously I’d want to develop a working understanding of the game and the community, so I could gain an understanding of how to make those events better. And this company is apparently really good about encouraging development as a gamer (daily optional game play, a personal gaming fund of a few hundred dollars a year per employee, etc.), so were I to get the position, I’d definitely take advantage of those perks.

        Reddit (totally agree with the ugh, though) is a good thought. Obviously, I’m trying to get BF to download as much info as possible over the next couple days and get his (and his buddies’) insights on what could be done better. Just hoping it’s enough to get me through, but what will be will be. :)

        1. misspiggy*

          Do you look at the Warframe community videos on YouTube? Their community people make a point of playing through the game online and really showing they know every bit of the player experience. So as long as you showed keenness to get into the game as a player that might cut it.

          1. Elizabeth*

            That’s what I’m thinking. I made no secret of my novice status in my cover letter, but I figure if I go in with some working knowledge of the game and make it clear that I’d definitely be ready and excited to learn more, that’s the best I can offer; I’m not going to be an expert in 48 hours. And if being an active, dedicated player of the game really is necessary for the position right off the bat, then well, it wasn’t meant to be. :)

            I haven’t looked into Warframe, but I’ll definitely do so this weekend. Thanks!

        2. T3k*

          Ohhh, lucky you to get an interview! (been trying to get a job with local game developers for a few years now)

          I would caution you though to not let opinions detract from trying to learn as much as you can about the game. While having some criticism about a game is ok, they’ll probably be turned off if you give a huge list to the point it sounds like they’d need to re-do the whole game if you were the decision maker. However, since it seems your BF enjoys the game, you’ll probably get some good opinions from him on it. Ideally, I’d suggest playing the game all the way through to get a feel for it, if you have the time.

          1. Elizabeth*

            No, I completely understand. I should have probably prefaced the “tell me what could be improved” bit by the fact that I looked on Glassdoor and it turns out someone who had interviewed for this position reported that “How could this year’s championship tournament be improved over last year’s?” was one of the questions. Who knows if/when in the process it makes an appearance, but I wanted to have some ideas ready just in case. :)

            And I’ve definitely been scouring everything I can about the game when I have free moments. Like I said, this is an event coordinator position, so I’m especially focusing on that side of things (though still trying to get in-game as much as my limited experience allows :)).

            Thanks, everyone, for your help and good thoughts!

    3. TinyPjM*

      hello! fellow games industry person here. you’ll do great as long as you make it clear you have done some research, and can talk about it at least on a slightly below the surface level. we hire a ton of people who do not play games, but the ones who can at least talk about them (or make it clear they have attempted to play ours) stand out in a very positive way.

      good luck! i have a feeling i know which company this is, and if you got an interview at all, you’ve already impressed them :)

      1. Elizabeth*

        No, I completely understand. I should have probably prefaced the “tell me what could be improved” bit by the fact that I looked on Glassdoor and it turns out someone who had interviewed for this position reported that “How could this year’s championship tournament be improved over last year’s?” was one of the questions. Who knows if/when in the process it makes an appearance, but I wanted to have some ideas ready just in case. :)

        And I’ve definitely been scouring everything I can about the game when I have free moments. Like I said, this is an event coordinator position, so I’m especially focusing on that side of things (though still trying to get in-game as much as my limited experience allows :)).

        Thanks, everyone, for your help and good thoughts!

      2. Elizabeth*

        Ahh, replied to the wrong comment! Anyway, thank you! This made me feel better. Apparently the hiring process here is a long one, and the odds are against me, but yeah, based on what I’ve heard, I feel really lucky just to have gotten an interview. :)

  31. I am now a llama*

    Advice please :) Putting together a profile section, based on Alison’s recommendation. Please weigh in and let me know if this sounds ok:

    Trustworthy and passionate individual with an excitement for building lasting relationships with customers and colleagues. Praised by managers on performance evaluations for great attention to detail and proactive communication.

    And then I have Key Achievements:
    -achievement A
    -award x
    -award y
    -able to translate complicated technical concepts to simple terms for executive management

    Any edits? All advice appreciated!

    1. misspiggy*

      Great start! Alison might recommend you change the adjectives about how you feel to adjectives about what you do or the skills you have. Also, you might want to highlight strengths that come across as more ‘above and beyond’ than detail or communication. Not saying these are bad things to talk about, but can you describe which precise behaviour or skillset really sets you apart from others in these areas? I find it can help to write this kind of stuff out in a long document to get at the really distinctive things you offer, and then condense it back down.

    2. Hrm*

      Re: “Trustworthy and passionate individual with an excitement for building lasting relationships with customers and colleagues. Praised by managers on performance evaluations for great attention to detail and proactive communication”.

      I don’t think summaries are a thing anymore, but wait to see how Alison responds.

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        Summaries are a current thing. They’re what has replaced objectives. I agree with misspiggy’s feedback above — you want it to be less subjective/less generic (something lots of people might say about themselves).

    3. JPixel*

      Can you elaborate on what kind of jobs you are looking for? (To us, not actually in the summary). I think the key achievements sound great but the summary sounds vague – these are things that many people would say about themselves. And can I just say that “able to translate complicated technical concepts to simple terms for executive management” is such a helpful skill!

  32. LizB*

    Can I just vent about employers that interview you and then never get back to you? I had an interview two weeks ago, and they said they’d be making decisions within a few days. At this point, I obviously didn’t get the job… but I haven’t heard a single thing from them. Not even a form email. You have a big fancy online application system, I am 100% certain there is a “Send Mass Rejection Email” button somewhere in there. Grrr.

    On the plus side, I found a job posting yesterday that is a) at an organization whose work I follow and really admire, b) exactly in line with my skills, experience, and interests, and c) the hiring manager is someone I’ve had an informational interview and multiple other interactions with in the past. I kind of flipped out when I saw it, and applied immediately. Hopefully I’ll hear something soon! *crosses fingers like whoa*

    1. Ad Astra*

      I’m still waiting to hear back from a company I interviewed with in March. Fingers crossed! ;)

      1. College Career Counselor*

        I’m still waiting (not really) to hear back from an organization I interviewed with in June.

        Of 2012.

    2. voluptuousfire*

      Yep! Had this same situation recently. Long story short, I had to follow up twice with a company to get a response. Needless to say I won’t be applying with them again.

      I also had a job come up in my Indeed search for a similar role that I had applied for back in March and had gotten a second interview for but didn’t pursue to scheduling conflicts and a temp gig extension. It was funny timing because I had checked the same company’s website (I kept an eye on it because I liked what they were doing) the same afternoon and didn’t see it. I applied for the new role and got a call and ended up being able to skip the initial screening because they remembered me from March and had a very positive impression (!) of me. I had a call with the HM for the role and it went smashingly. I hopefully should hear next week.

    3. Jennifer*

      Hah, I had an interview with one org and never, ever heard back from them–but did get a rejection letter from the other job I applied for there. I can only assume the first group told them I sucked.

    4. CMT*

      It’s so rude when companies do this! I’m sorry these people are jerks (about this particular thing, at least).

    5. Sara*

      Right? I went through three rounds of interviews with an employer, culminating about a month ago, and haven’t heard a single word from them since then – and that’s after two emails and a phone call (appropriately spread out). In my field, no contact for a month basically means I know I didn’t get the job (we move quickly since most hiring is done over about a 3 month period every year) – and I can deal with that. But I find it so freaking rude that after I spent so much time prepping for, traveling to, and actually participating in the interview process that they don’t have the decency to let me know I wasn’t selected.

    6. JenGray*

      Not sure why/when this became the trend but companies don’t like to get back to candidates. Also, I am not sure when this because a trend but horrible rejection letters are becoming common place- google rejection letters and you can come up with a good example (they don’t have to be long letters either). But I applied for a receptionist job one time and got a letter back saying that I didn’t have experience as a receptionist so would not be getting an interview when at the time I actually I had 8 years as a receptionist.

    7. Communication is key*

      Seriously. Yes, this. One of my biggest pet peeves. It doesn’t have to be overly personalized, but just a little something to let me know you’ve moved on would be helpful.

    8. Ann O'Nemity*

      Ugh, I hate it when companies never follow-up after an interview.

      My worst experience was when my “rejection” came in the form of a newsletter with an article celebrating their new hire. Yep, they never followed up after the interview but they added me to their mailing list.

  33. Sunflower*

    Any advice for how to network in a city when you don’t live there? I’m finding that my applications for jobs outside of my city are just getting thrown in a virtual trash box when I apply online. I only live 1.5-2 hours from the city I’m looking in so while physical networking events aren’t impossible, they certainly aren’t ideal. My university has a very large alumni association so I’m definitely looking through there

    Also has anyone had luck with virtual networking events? I have done a few through my university but not much came of them

    1. Lost in France*

      Do you belong to any communities or alumni groups that might be active on social media? I’m in a few alumni groups on Facebook and people will often post questions about jobs, connections, moving to a new city or country, etc. I’ve also heard of people successfully making connections on Twitter, but that may only work in certain industries.

    2. Ad Astra*

      Your name and the fact that your alumni association is doing virtual networking events makes me wonder if we belong to the same alumni association. But then, it’s quite possible that a whole bunch of alumni associations are doing virtual networking lately.

      Do you know people in your new city who could keep an eye out for you? Are you mentioning your plans to relocate in your cover letter? Might there be one or two especially valuable networking events in this new city that would be worth the drive?

  34. MousyNon*

    I have an interview next week with a top-10 company that, according to glassdoor reviews, seems to micromanages their employees to the point of infantalization (managers can remote into a subordinates PC at will and track when you’re typing/on the phone/etc, the entire company can see when you’re busy/working remotely/available with no direct employee control).

    I know glassdoor (like any review site) is going to skew negative since people with bad experiences are more likely to write reviews than people with good experiences, but I do still want to ask about this in the interview, since working in a corporate culture obsessed with perceived “time theft” is definitely a deal breaker for me.

    Any suggestions on how to phrase a question for the hiring team so I can get the information I need without coming off like an employee hoping to slack off and watch netflix all day?

    1. LQ*

      How about something like just covering what a day in the job is like or what kind of regular interactions with the manager are like?

      Also the remoting into pcs is super ish. But the entire company can see when you are busy/avail this might just be a baked in tool like Lync that syncs up with your Outlook calendar that the company uses and then locks down employees from fidgeting with the settings on. (We have that and someone freaked out about it until I pointed out that it’s not magic, it just sees what is on your calendar, which anyone can see if you are free or busy anyway.) Sometimes might be totally gross and some might just be people not understanding tools and going OH and they also are watching you and they totally know when you are free or away from your computer or in a meeting.

    2. Wakeen's Teapots Ltd.*

      We just had this happen the other week.

      There’s a (true) negative pattern in some of our Glass Door reviews, albeit presented more negatively than it actually is because of who was writing the reviews. The statement, however, is factual.

      We were interviewing someone at management level and when it came time for her questions, she asked us right out, “I read this in glass door, can you tell me about this”.

      I happened to be one of two people who was in this, her first interview. This was *great*, just asking the question so we could address it, rather than trying to suss out or guess.

      We answered honestly what she could expect.

      The happy additional note here is that not only did we have her back for a 2nd interview, we offered her the job and she accepted!! This was such a hard hire for us, we’ve been looking for months and she was the perfect fit for the job. Imagine if she didn’t just ask the question and give us a chance to give a direct answer.

  35. Parking issues - WWYD?*

    Parking in our building ramp is not great – the spaces are narrow and often awkward to get into due to the placement of the support columns. Our company policy is that employees are not supposed to park in the first row of spaces closest to the door (these spots are labeled “office/visitor parking”) so that those spots are available for visitors to the building. I saw one of our employees park in one of these spaces this morning. Would you report this to our mutual manager?

    1. Nanc*

      Nope. You have no idea why they used the space. They may be sick or injured and have permission to use those spaces for the time being. They may have brought something heavy and carried it in and moved their car later. Maybe they had car trouble and parked before the car died and blocked the aisle. Let it go.

    3. Sunflower*

      I totally get the desire to do this but I wouldn’t unless it becomes a habit and visitor spots fill up so they no longer have somewhere to park. I don’t know if your manager would even care if you reported it. I know mine wouldn’t

      1. Parking issues - WWYD?*

        FWIW, it was the last open visitor spot in the row.

        I don’t make a habit of monitoring my coworkers’ parking habits, but our office is literally plastered with reminders about where not to park – it is the Big Boss’s pet peeve.

        1. Elsajeni*

          If it’s the Big Boss’s pet peeve, I’d leave it to her to pay attention to and enforce it. I wouldn’t even mention it to the coworker unless I thought there was a chance they’d somehow missed all the reminders.

  36. SandrineSmiles (France)*

    I need to slap my unemployment advisor xD .

    In France, when you find yourself unemployed, you have to enroll with “Pôle Emploi” . Said agency just makes sure you look for a job, you have to update every month, things like that. This isn’t a problem, they want to make sure you don’t cheat the system to keep the benefits.

    My former agency was one hour away. People from my area were transferred to an agency over two hours away and I discovered that they have a “100% web” solution. Ah, that’s my jam, I thought. Hmm.

    What I didn’t think about was the fact that, with this solution, it was more likely that they’d send me offers I HAVE to apply to. New advisor did just that. She didn’t speak with me other than tell me my resume wasn’t available on the site, boom right away without discussion she sent me something to apply to.

    Hmm… Lady… How about we talk, even through e-mail ? I don’t want to lose my time or yours. So I applied like the directions said (but thankfully I’m pretty sure I won’t get called) .

    Oh well! Let’s hope I get along with the advisor haha.

    1. misspiggy*

      Just be thankful you’re not in the UK, where people are routinely cut off from all welfare for months, for things like applying for the dictated number of jobs each week, but not realising the jobcentre week goes from Thursday, so they ended up doing more in one week and not enough the following week. Or for not attending a mandated jobcentre interview because a mandated job interview clashed with it, despite informing the jobcentre. Yes we have had a few deaths from starvation.

  37. Jerzy*

    What are people’s thoughts on going back to work for a previous employer after only being gone a few months?

    Some background: I left a government job I really liked working with people I adored back in March for a new opportunity in the private sector that was 1) much closer to home, 2) provided me with a 50% pay increase, and 3) seemed to offer me a position with more autonomy and possibly more opportunities for advancement. I’m content enough at my new job, but I happened across a job posting with a local nonprofit that I felt I HAD to apply for, and I wanted to let my old manager know I wanted to list him as a reference. He saw this as an opportunity to try to get me back. Who knows if he’ll be able to work out something at the salary I want and with the ability to work from home or a local field office (at least some days), but would it look bad to go back to an employer so quickly, like I just took this new job to leverage a better deal? I also worry about my former co-workers somehow resenting me for leaving and coming back in (likely) a high position, or even a contractor.

    Again, nothing’s happened, but my old boss is quite tenacious when he wants something, and so I can’t write this off entirely as a pipe dream.

    1. fposte*

      I think it’s fine as long as you didn’t leave because of dissatisfactions that still exist and they can deliver on what they’re promising–or hoping to promise–you to lure you back. That’s how people in some sectors rise.

      1. fposte*

        Oh, crap, I totally ignored that you’ve only been in your current job since March. And I think one reason I ignored it is that you’re not discussing the effect on your current job when you talk about your decision.

        And looking more thoroughly, I think there might be some soul-searching involved here. You’ve been there four months and you *had* to apply to an opening and are now considering walking for yet another opportunity? Have you not really emotionally “broken up” with your former job, since the people there are the one you’re most worried about?

        I don’t think returning to the old employer is itself a big deal; I think that Sunflower is right that you’ll take a hit reputationally at the new job, and I also think you might be in a general shopping mode that it would be good to understand in case you find yourself still interested in exciting opportunities after you leave where you are.

    2. Sunflower*

      I’m split on this. Obviously you know your old employer, you liked your old job. I can see where the desire to go back is coming from but
      1. Realize you’re probably burning a bridge at your new job. Although gov’t jobs can take a long time for things to move along so who knows how long you’ll have been at your ‘new’ job once an actual offer comes through
      2. I can’t speak for every employer but my friend is a recruiter and she has always told me it’s bad to do this. Regardless of what actually happened, people will always think what they want. I wouldn’t worry about your coworkers as much as your manager who might be thinking you’ll leave again once a better offer comes to the table.

      This is also just my opinion but your old manager probably thinks you’re unhappy in your new job since you are already applying for other ones(even if it was just a once off thing) so who knows what kind of deal he’ll actually come back with. Is there a reason you are already considering leaving your new job?

    3. JenGray*

      I am not a fan of taking counter offers because nothing really changes from when you worked there. Also, nothing is every guaranteed unless you have a contract. I once took a counter offer from an organization and nothing was ever the same after that and the person who actually convinced me to stay (my boss’s boss) 1) lied about why he wanted me to stay and 2) I actually found out later was bad mouthing me & my coworker to other professionals in our field. My point being that you really take a gamble when you do this.

  38. Lunar*

    This may seem like a silly problem, but how do I deal with my boss’s jokes? They aren’t offensive or anything like that, its just that I don’t really find them funny and they happen over and over. Often it is just things like sarcastically commenting on how “great” the cafeteria food is or asking about the traffic on my commute (I walk to work). I usually smile and sometimes offer a jokey response back, but they get so old day after day.

    Sometimes the comments relate to my position – like jokingly asking my “permission” to do things like take time off (when I am the lowest ranking person and he is my boss) or joking about adding to my job title or giving me a raise because of how much I do around the office (this is always a joke, and he has mentioned in the past that he purposefully does not mention things like this in front of others because he doesn’t want them to suggest giving me a raise or anything like that). I am pretty overwhelmed with work and underpaid and I’m unhappy with my job for many reasons so these comments bother me. I don’t think it is worth saying anything about them, but I worry that not reacting to his jokes in a super positive way is making me seem negative and grumpy. We are in a very small office, so we are often only interacting with each other. Do you think it is okay for me to be unresponsive about the jokes and just focus on work? Or do I need to respond in a similarly lighthearted way even though I’m not feeling it at all? (For the record: I’m not super serious and I love a good joke – I just don’t find his funny at all).

    1. TheExchequer*

      I think the irritation with the jokes is a symptom. (I bet they would bother you a lot less if you were happy and paid better).

      I don’t know if you can get away with being completely unresponsive about the jokes. Depends on your relationship with him and what kind of person he is. Some people would be fine with a tight lipped smile and eye roll, some people would get all hurt that you didn’t think they were the next Seinfeld.

    2. Tomato Frog*

      You might try responding politely but as if he means what he says. “How was the commute?” “Good, thanks.” Then bring up work topic. If he explains it was a joke, you can say, oh, right, sorry. I have a cousin who’s this way naturally and she sometimes seems like a doof, but never a jerk.

      1. Tomato Frog*

        But yeah, I don’t think you need to act amused. Bemused and distracted is fine.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      The one thing I would consider hitting is the jokes about your job/title/pay. I would try something like this: “You know it bothers me when you joke about my job/title/pay. I work hard and I have enough work for two people [0nly say this if this is true]. So it’s disconcerting to me to hear these type of jokes. I would appreciate it if you could cut back on those jokes.”

      Personally, I think that people who repeat the same jokes all the time are tired people. They don’t even realize how much they are repeating themselves.

  39. cuppa*

    I got turned down for a job this week and I’m pretty bummed. I was really excited about the opportunity, and I worked really, really hard to prepare for the interview (which went SO well). It’s hard to know that you did everything you could and it still just didn’t work out. It’s been hard to find jobs in my field and in my area lately, so it’s not as easy to just let go and focus on the other irons in the fire, because there just aren’t any.

    1. Jennifer*

      I second all of your pain, same thing happened to me last week. It really, really sucks. And yeah, I have no irons in the fire either and no hope of any now.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      That sucks. I am sorry to hear this. I hope you give yourself some kind of reward this weekend because you really knocked yourself out for this one. Take the time to grieve and take the time to pat yourself on the back for the parts that went right.
      I hope this picture changes for you very soon.

  40. I am now a llama*

    Separate question! How do you get started in/ find a government job? Is there a separate job listing site?

    I’m interested to explore this avenue but not sure where to start.

      3. Chrissi*

        And pay VERY close attention to how to apply – if you are missing anything, you won’t be given an interview, and they will not open the listing again. I only say this because I’ve known too many people that screwed up the materials they needed to provide, and then got ticked off that they weren’t given another chance.

        1. I am now a llama*

          Does this also apply to qualifications? Or would I be able to apply for a reach position?

          1. Chrissi*

            That’s hard to answer. There is usually a part of the job vacancy announcement w/ required qualifications (like 21 credit hours of statistics or whatnot), and then usually some more soft skills type things – those are absolutely required. Then there’s another section where they will put other skills they’d like, but that are not required. Generally, the only things you HAVE to have are the college classes or any certifications that are listed.

            After you apply, you can check the status of your application online and they will let you know if you’ve been “referred”, which means the HR people sent your application on to the hiring manager and you will get an interview. So, even if you apply for some “reach positions”, you’ll know the outcome fairly quickly.

        2. Chrissi*

          BTW, usajobs is only for federal positions.

          Also, every vacancy announcement has an HR person down as a contact (it’s usually to the right side of the screen in the announcement). As a matter of habit, I always contact that HR person after I’ve submitted my documents to make sure they got every page of every document I scanned. Some of them are more receptive to this than others, but you’d hate to miss out on a job because their printer jammed when they were printing out your transcript or something.

    2. Jerzy*

      Most states also have separate sites for their civil service positions, and each one operates differently. Most you have to take a written test, and then if you pass you get put in a pool of candidates and are interviewed if an actual position opens up.

      1. Chronic Snacker*

        Then to make it even more fun, there’s county specific and city specific government sites, and each of them have their own application process. Just follow their instructions to the T on info requested from you.

        But also, they take a while to get through, so don’t give up!

    4. LQ*

      For my state:
      State are on the state jobs site.
      City and county – varies from place to place – they often also list on the state sponsored jobs site.
      I’d highly recommend checking to see if your local employment/unemployment people sponsor a job site of some kind, often whatever this job board is will either let everyone post free or will let all government entities post free, but it is very often a way government entities will reach out.

      Be really specific on all their requirements.

      When you get called for an interview give answers that are very complete and take notes on the parts of the questions.

      Also? This can vary greatly from agency to agency.
      *does not include federal anything!

    5. AnotherFed*

      USAjobs is the single web application place for federal government jobs, but you’ll also do well to reach out to any contacts you have in gov’t jobs for help. They’ll be able to tell you about any oddities their own organizations add to the process, and point out postings in their agencies. USAjobs is not a user-friendly site AT ALL, so it’s often very helpful to have someone on the inside tell you what jobs really are or point you to relevant jobs they know are posted. Lastly, the government is allowed to do a small number of non-competitive hirings (meaning no posting required), so they can recommend you for those or push your resume along to someone who might need skills you have.

  41. Anonymusketeer*

    My boss sometimes says things that are borderline racist, classist, or sexist, and it’s starting to make me really uncomfortable. In my opinion, these comments are on the wrong side of the borderline and really are unacceptable, but obviously he sees them as harmless.

    It’s “small” things, like trying to imitate the Middle Eastern man who rented him a car, or comments like “And that’s why you’ll be working at McDonald’s forever,” or referring to the women in our department as “young lady.” He never outrightly disparages any group of people, but I don’t think his comments are funny or acceptable.

    If this were a peer, I might use Allison’s line about “I hope you’re not telling me this because you think I agree with you.” But I’m new on the job and he’s my direct supervisor, so I don’t feel comfortable calling him out. What should I do?

    2. CMT*

      Ahhh that’s so annoying.

      The governor of my state recently introduced the commissioner of a department as “young lady” at a press conference. Not. Cool.

    3. Sunflower*

      Usually just ignoring him will work. When things like this happen, just be super engrossed in your work like you didn’t even hear it. I also think raising your eyebrows is a good indicator of a visual ‘wow’

    4. LQ*

      I think ignoring goes a long way here. As can playing a little dumb. “I’m sorry was that a joke? I don’t get it?” is my favorite but it’s also a little aggressive. Just not responding with any positive reinforcement can help. It’s unlikely to stop him, but it’s sometimes the best you can do it a spot where you are concerned about your job being on the line.

      The problem of course, is if he starts getting angry like why aren’t you laughing etc…But assuming he’s not that bad, just doesn’t see that it’s a problem it will help a lot to never give him positive reinforcement on the jokes. If you can just dead silence at the “punch lines”.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      Sometimes a “don’t go there” said with a smile gets the point across. It’s helpful if you can get that phrase out quickly without missing a beat.

      Boss: blah,blah, blah.
      You: “oh, let’s not go there! hey, what about the monthly report on X when is that do?”
      [You say it, then you keep moving to a redirect.]

  42. Sachi*

    Does anyone have advice on career trajectory/development advice for paralegals? I am coming up on 1 year at my firm as a litigation/business paralegal in DC. Disregarding the fact my role is underpaid, I’m also trying to figure out my possible next steps in terms of advancing professionally. I’d like to keep working in litigation, but I could work in transactional stuff too. I just want to know what are other non-paralegal type roles/tracks I could transition to after gaining some more experience. I’m 2 years out of undergrad with no plans to go to law school, but I’d like to work on a track with a decent amount of growth potential (none where I’m at). Any advice is welcome and appreciated in advance.

    1. PurpleMonkeyDishwasher*

      Have you thought about going to a bigger firm? There are usually more opportunities for growth in that setting, since they’ll typically have multiple levels of paralegal (i.e., more senior paralegals who only work on the more complex projects, or paralegal managers who manage teams of paralegals, etc.). Is that the kind of growth you’re thinking about?

      1. Sachi*

        That’s probably the next step I’ll take, but I’ve tried to do some research and I hear about working in litigation support / analyst / consultant type positions, but there doesn’t seem to be a lot of in-depth stuff (or even a lot of postings) about it. Same for lit tech/e-discovery, although I feel like I’d need a stronger tech background.. So far all the paralegals I’ve met through work have either gone to law school, or another firm, so I was wondering if anyone had stories of people who branched out into a different legal related field successfully (sans law school).

    2. Lucky*

      Consider going in-house to a company’s legal department, especially if you can build your transactional skills. Especially at a large company, you’ll be able to move up and even out of legal, like into a business analyst or vendor management role.

      1. Abby*

        I have 10 years paralegal experience, wanted out and can’t find a decent not entry level job. I would think hard about if you really want to spend your career doing this, and if not get out sooner rather than later.

      2. Anon369*

        This. Look for finance companies that have in-house legal staff – there are a number of them in the DC area.

  43. Emilia Bedelia*

    Here’s something I’ve been thinking about recently: I read something recently about the distinction between “No problem” and “You’re welcome” in response to “Thank you”, and how Milennials that use “no problem” are often poorly perceived by older adults who think it is disrespectful. I am a Millenial who uses “no problem” quite often myself, and I’m curious whether this is really something that people are concerned with. I’m not opposed to using “you’re welcome” if that’s what the culture demands, but is this just another reason the media has come up with of why my generation is terrible?

      1. Charlotte Collins*

        I am, too. I think that the level of formality I’m trying for makes a difference. You can also try “My pleasure” if “You’re welcome” sounds like too much. Or “I was happy to do it” or “Happy to help” (unless you really weren’t). I’ve always liked the Spanish “De nada” (I think the English equivalent is “It was nothing”). In German class, I was taught to say “Bitte sehr,” which I think is pretty similar to “Very pleased to help.”

        1. Lllll*

          I’ve been saying “my pleasure” lately but I worry it sounds a bit… obsequious? The thing is I am totally sincere! People are constantly apologizing and/or over-thanking me for doing my job; I just want to communicate that I’m happy to be doing it.

    3. Lunar*

      I think this is so interesting! I am definitely a Millennial and use “no problem” all the time for everything and I’ve read different things on the subject. I tried switching to “you’re welcome” for a while, but it is such a hard habit to break. I do think it is one of those sensationalized things that are trying to pit generations against one another. Everyone knows what is meant by “no problem” and “you’re welcome”. I have been trying to be more mindful of not saying “no problem” when something really was a problem or I went out of my way to do something. I can’t speak to how it is perceived by my older colleagues, but I don’t think it should be a big deal.

      1. Pearl*

        For me when something was a problem or I had to go out of my way to fix it, I try to say something like “I’m glad I could help” (since I also can’t get myself in the habit of saying “you’re welcome” – it just sounds/feels weird).

        None of my older coworkers have ever said anything about it to me if it bothers them. I know my grandma was very focused on saying specifically “you’re welcome” but I always took that as part of her dedication to formality in general.

      2. Renee*

        I often say “Anytime.” I feels that it’s not overly formal but doesn’t get into whether what I’ve done is a problem. The reality is that, even if it is a problem, I’m willing to help anytime.

    4. nona*

      Yes, pretty much.

      I think the problem (ha) with “no problem” is the implication that the other person’s request could have been an imposition. I don’t hear it that way, but there are some “opinionated” people who do.

      1. Natalie*

        It’s so silly when people get that literal about one phrase but not whatever their preferred phrase is. You could say the exact same thing about “you’re welcome” – it implies that you’re not welcome by default, oh no!

        1. fposte*

          Yeah, I think this is pretty common when a new pleasantry crops up and people haven’t absorbed it as just noise. I wouldn’t be crazy about “God be with you” but I’m fine with “Goodbye.”

    5. Anie*

      I…always say “no problem.” Honestly, there’s something squicky when I say “you’re welcome.” It just feels weird. Of course np at it’s base is much less formal, but I’m rarely in a situation of strong formality where someone would thank me for something. No one has ever indicated it’s less than appropriate.

      1. fposte*

        Don’t assume that’s proof it was always all right, though. Most of the time if it bugs somebody they’re not going to correct you. Alison has a post about this fallacy somewhere–I’ll see if I can find it.

      2. Ask a Manager* Post author

        Here’s the post fposte is referring to:
        https://www.askamanager.org/2015/04/just-because-no-ones-complaining-doesnt-mean-your-behavior-is-okay.html

        People complain to Tom Sietsema, the Washington Post restaurant critic, about waiters who say “no problem” all the time! (Which I note not to say I agree with them, but just to illustrate that a decent number of people really dislike it.)

        I just searched for it, and actually he seems to hate it too:
        http://live.washingtonpost.com/ask-tom-06-06-12.html#2044536

    6. Ad Astra*

      I’m a Millennial myself and “no problem” bothers me a little. The proper response to “thank you” is “You’re welcome” or “I’m happy to do it” or “Any time!” or something like that. “No problem” is what you say when someone is reflexively apologizing for something that doesn’t require an apology, like someone digging in their purse for 8 seconds at the cash register.

      That said, I don’t think less of people who have this extremely common habit. I never remember who, specifically, said this to me, and couldn’t possibly tell you which of my coworkers/friends say “no problem” and which say “you’re welcome.”

      1. Katie the Fed*

        “Proper” is dependent on culture, and culture changes with time. In Australia, the response to “thank you” is “no worries!”

        I think it’s just something that’s changing with time.

        1. fposte*

          Agreed. And it takes me back to one of my favorite linguistic moments, where a new Russian immigrant to Minnesota was asking his coordinator “What is this Ubicha?” They finally figured out it was the great Minnesotan courtesy “You betcha.”

    7. fposte*

      Yes, there are definitely people who don’t like “no problem,” and I tend to encourage my younger staffers away from it.

      I don’t think it’s being used with the implications that bug people, but since it does bug some people and you’re in a situation where you want to get paid money, I’d stick to responses that don’t bug people.

    8. FD*

      I don’t think it’s an issue in speech with your coworkers. However, I think it does sound less polished and isn’t how you want to sound if you were making a professional sales pitch or presentation.

    9. Arjay*

      “No problem” is a huge pet peeve of mine, but while I’m annoyed at its use, it’s not something I associate with millennials. I limit myself to being annoyed by the individuals who say it, not by attributing it to an entire generation.

      1. LCL*

        Yup. It is all about me; I hear ‘no problem’ as a snarky retort, but I know the person actually meant it as a polite response. It’s one of those grating habits, like the word ‘orientated’ when they meant oriented.

        1. fposte*

          Though that’s regional (and also industry, I think); “orientated” is correct outside of the US.

        1. These are live servitors under transient control.*

          I’d never heard of this as a “Millenial thing” either.

          I’m Generation X, so “no problem” brings back memories of Alf. I liked Alf (and still do) so I’ll sometimes say this. Although I won’t use the phrase “no problemo”, because that reminds me of Herb Tarlek from the television show WKRP. And I can’t deal with too much Herb-ness.

    10. afiendishthingy*

      Hmm. I’m a Millennial but on the older side of the generation (born in 1984). I say something like “Sure, of course” when someone thanks me for something they really don’t need to thank me for because it’s my job, like a client thanking me for calling them. I say “no problem” a lot too, probably especially with coworkers. I think I use “you’re welcome” most when someone thanks me for doing something that was actually a favor, like feeding someone’s cats while they’re out of town. I suppose I understand that some people take “no problem” to mean it COULD have been a problem, but that’s not how I use it – I use it to imply that because there really isn’t a problem there’s no need to thank me.

    11. Hlyssande*

      I also read the same thing and it’s very thought-provoking.

      I was born in ’82 and actually use both, but ‘no problem’ comes easier to me. ‘You’re welcome’ does feel sarcastic and condescending depending on the situation.

      As always, the media will jump on just about any opportunity to tell us that we suck. :(

    12. CollegeAdmin*

      I used to always use “no problem,” and then decided that it sounded like I was minimizing my own contributions. I switched to saying, “you’re welcome” and suddenly realized how much I was doing, and I think my boss did too.

    13. LQ*

      I try to go with “Happy to help.” when talking. Though I just over thank the person if it’s in email.

      Thanks for your help on this project.

      Thank you, I’ve had a great time working on it.

      But for people who think “no problem” is disrespectful there have to be some who think “you’re welcome” sounds condescending. But is that what the person means or are you just crabby because you didn’t want to the on the project to start with? It’s like the bitch eating crackers mode of generational “conflict.”

    14. Rat Racer*

      I came here to write that people who are offended by the phrase “no problem” must not have many real problems to keep them occupied.

      But then again, I have a personal pet peeve about the phrase “no worries” because I am a constant worrier who tries hard not to worry so much all the time, so when I hear the phrase “no worries” I think “I wasn’t worried! Stop being condescending!”

      Then I have to remind myself that it’s an empty meaningless phrase and that the person who said it was not referring to my anxious temperament.

    15. Meadowsweet*

      it’s the media assuming that anything ‘new’ must be because of the most recent generation to enter the workforce.

      I have heard that ‘no problem’ can be a problem in other countries or when US English is not the other person’s first language – the implication that the request might have been a problem is the problem.

      I try to vary it :) I mostly use “you’re welcome” for things that were or could have been significant effort, “no problem” for things that are an ask but not a big one, and “of course!/glad to help!” for little things that are little to no effort or that are integral to my job. Though I will sometimes change it up :)

    16. Not So NewReader*

      Baby boomer here. I had bosses tell me that “older people” are offended by “no problem” and by “have a good one”.
      They think “have a good one” is a sexual reference.

      I did have a friend that could not wrap his mind around “no problem”. I said that “thank you” to me means that someone thinks I have applied extra effort on their behalf. Perhaps, I have put extra energy into something for them, but it was a pleasure for me… not a problem. I tried to encourage my friend to think of the phrase “no problem” as the last half of a sentence. “It was a pleasure to help you, it was not a problem at all.”

      Conversely, I have been told, “oh you don’t have to do that!” And I have responded with, “You might be technically correct about that, but I WANT to do this.”

  44. JQ*

    Hey wise job people!

    I have spent the entirety of my career so far working in academic scientific research (first as a research tech, then as a doctoral student research assistant). I’ve done pretty well at it but I’m not interested in pursuing it further (academic positions are scarce and also I don’t really see the point), and finishing my doctorate seems like a natural time to make a transition to something else. So I am on a fact-finding mission about what kinds of jobs are out there! The transferable skills I’m particularly thinking about right now are: technical writing (I have spent a LOT of time documenting complex technical processes and writing descriptions of technical concepts) and project management (I manage complicated multi-step research projects concurrently and coordinate a lot of unpredictable moving parts). But I realize that “technical writing” and “project management” mean something more specific in the working world than just “writing about technical stuff” and “managing projects.” So, anyone in these kinds of positions willing to talk about their jobs and what specific experience and qualifications are actually needed for them?

    Just as an aside, the work chat open threads are my FAVORITE thing on AAM. I learn so much!

    1. voluptuousfire*

      Depending on your doctorate, you may want to look into data scientist roles. It’s supposedly really hot right now and the majority of data scientists are phDs who have experience with data analysis and such. They’re quite in demand with start ups and large companies alike and starting pay is somewhere around 70k, if not more. Having a data background along with the ability to break down your results for the average person to understand, all the better.

      I interviewed for a position at a start up that offered post doctoral fellowships to phDs to become data scientists a few months back and did a bit of research to get a better idea of the market. :) That’s why I know a bit.

      1. AvonLady Barksdale*

        Agreed. We recently hired a data analyst with an MA and a few years of experience, and she is amazing. I’m in brand/market research. We farm some of our work out to a PhD statistician, but as we’ve grown, we’ve needed someone in-house so much more. She does a lot of our basic analysis and her boss does a ton more– they advise on methods for studies and help us compile results, and having someone sit there with me and explain why a TURF came out the way it did makes my day and life so much better.

        At my old company, they laid off a ton of people because they’re moving to using data scientists in those roles. My former colleagues were doing basic analysis based on simple data, but companies like that one (a large media company) now need and want creative and complex ways to map out their business.

      2. Tau*

        I have a PhD’d friend who is now a data scientist, and one of my rejections came with “but have you considered applying for our open data scientist role because you seem to be a great fit for it!” attached. So I also get the impression it’s a hot area right now where PhDs are in demand. I ended up going into software development, but although I’m pretty happy with that choice I didn’t get the impression my PhD was much of a bonus there.

    2. cv*

      I’m not in those fields, but as someone who has switched fields/careers, had a resume full of transferable skills with no career direction, and who is currently in grad school, I’d suggest taking a look at your school’s alumni directory to get a sense for where other people from your field/department have ended up. Many alumni directories will have titles and organizations for at least some people, which can be useful information even if you don’t contact them. There may be industry jobs in your field that you don’t know about, or interesting directions that people have gone with education/skills similar to yours.

      I know one biochemistry PhD who’s working for the government on biofuels, a couple of others who went to consumer products companies, someone who’s a bench scientist of some sort at a pharma company, a civil engineer PhD who went to a tech startup that’s related to his subfield, an engineer who went to work for a law firm doing patent stuff, and probably others that I’m forgetting. Don’t label/think of yourself as “smart person with transferable skills but little office experience” because that’s going to land you in entry-level office job territory.

    3. ACA*

      The other week I met with a just-graduating Chemistry PhD who’s going into investment banking – reviewing scientific companies/projects/products/etc to see if they’re worth investing in. Might be something worth exploring for you!

    4. Cath in Canada*

      I’m a project manager / grant writer in academic scientific research.

      I’ve written about the grant side of things as a guest post on the Research Whisperer blog (link to follow). The PM stuff is really a continuation of the same theme – taking on the non-research tasks to free the researchers’ time. So I spend a lot of time tracking progress & spending against targets, making sure invoices get paid, writing progress reports, running meetings, tracking which papers/presentations/posters belong to which grants, making sure we maintain compliance with funder, IRB,& external dataset provider rules, coordinating sample submissions and processing, etc.

      People in my team have varied backgrounds. A lot of us have done research before (I have a PhD, and so do about half of my team, but it’s not necessary – although it’s helpful to know the nuances of how research labs work), but we also hire people straight from undergrad or masters, or from other sectors e.g. IT. A couple of people have formal PM certifications when they’re hired, but most of us learn on the job and take the PMP after a few years’ experience. The key things interviewers will be looking for are organisation skills, flexibility regarding everything except deadlines, an ability to prioritise, ability to work with academic egos (more of an issue in my last job than in my current one luckily), willingness to do some of the less interesting work with a good attitude, etc.

      Happy to answer any more specific questions, too!

  45. Anon for this!*

    Just passing on two things my clueless boss said to me this week. We finally got permission to hire someone to help out with the workload. She actually said to me that one of the people who applied seemed pretty old, and she thought she should hire someone younger! I said whoa, you know there is such a thing as age discrimination, right? Her age has nothing to do with the ability to do this job, and you shouldn’t be considering it! The second stupid comment was, well, if I do hire her, I will only do so if she agrees to carpool with “Jane”. Again with the car pooling remarks. I have been shaking my head all week. Really? Until the company buys a car, pays for the insurance and puts gas in it, it is NOT my clueless boss’s business who rides with whom back and forth to work.

    1. TheExchequer*

      Makes you hope said applicant has other offers and can turn your boss down, doesn’t it?

      1. Anon For This*

        If I thought I could get away with it, I’d put little cards on the car windows of people who apply that say “RUN IN THE OTHER DIRECTION AND DO NOT TURN AROUND”.

  46. Microsoft Word Challenge*

    OK, posting this for a coworker for any MS Word experts out there. She has a lengthy document that requires a number of different style sets. She created these and saved them in Styles. Whenever she opens this document, they are there. But when she opens a new document she doesn’t see them. She edits countless versions of this document and doesn’t want to click through and re-create a style for each section every time. Does anyone know how to set it up so that she always has them available to her in any document?

    1. Lore*

      I suspect the way to do it would be to create the styles in a template rather than a document. Then she could attach the template to any document and as long as she checked the “update styles” check-box when attaching the template, the styles will automatically come through. It is possible to save any document as a template; it might be worth playing around with that feature before going through the work of re-creating all the styles. I think, perhaps, if she saved it as a template, then deleted all the actual copy, the styles should remain–but that might take some playing around.

      1. Microsoft Word Challenge*

        I suggested exactly this but she brought up the point of how to update an existing file. What do you mean by attach a template to any document? You can open a document that already exists and add a template to it?

      2. Microsoft Word Challenge*

        I had to add the developer ribbon, but this seems to have worked. Thanks!

        1. Lore*

          Oh yes, sorry. I should have mentioned that. It’s enabled by default on our work machines so I always forget that’s not the standard configuration.

    2. Jerzy*

      Sounds like she needs to create a template. Not sure how to do that myself, but I guarantee there are tutorials out there for free. Google is her friend here.

    3. FD*

      This is most likely where it’s breaking down:

      1. Get her gallery set up like she wants it, with all the customized styles.
      2. Home > Styles > Change Styles > Save as Quick Style Set… > Name it whatever she wants (This is the part I think she’s missing.)
      3. Open a new document.
      4. Home > Styles > Change Styles > She should see her new style set in this list.

      1. FD*

        If this doesn’t work, I would be happy to share my e-mail so she can contact me, I am a styles guru!

        1. Microsoft Word Challenge*

          We don’t see a change styles option. I think she would LOVE to talk to a styles guru.

          1. Microsoft Word Challenge*

            Though I don’t think she could share the document as it has sensitive company information.

                1. Microsoft Word Challenge*

                  Thanks! I passed it on to her. She will put “Styles Guru” in the subject.

      2. Aunt Vixen*

        This is what I was going to say. I’d throw in a screenshot if we could do that here. On my ribbon “Change Styles” is almost all the way to the right side of the Home tab.

    5. Michelle*

      She’ll need to recreate the style, but when she does so, make sure that “New documents based on this template” is selected. Then it should appear in all new documents.

      By default, styles don’t carry across documents, but if you switch which item is selected it should hold.

      1. Microsoft Word Challenge*

        She tried this also. What do you mean “switch which item is selected”?

        1. Microsoft Word Challenge*

          She has “New documents based on this template” and then when she opens a new document that option is switched back to “only in this document”

  47. Apollo Warbucks*

    I’ve had such a bad week if any other database nerds can spare some sympathy I’d be really grateful.

    I’ve spent hours arguing about:

    Data normalisation (No we really don’t need to keep the customers address 6 different times in 3 different places )
    Database level constraints (Yes we need them, yes they are important)
    Data types (Storing a number as text is dumb, and not right)
    Sensible unique keys (No it can not be a concatenation of name, zip code and phone number)
    Naming convention (Use reserved key words for database objects and I will want to hurt you)

    I can just about cope with these problems but you want to start writing application code before the requirement gathering has been done I really am going to lose my shit.

    1. Observer*

      Who are you arguing with? Why do people who don’t know anything about database design get to argue with you about this?

      1. Apollo Warbucks*

        Developers who write great application code but know apparently nothing about database design or how they function!

        1. Nashira*

          They ought to be able to understand not naming objects with reserved keywords at the very least. That was like week two of my intro to C++ course: “Here’s the forbidden words. Never even try to use them for variables.” It’s a basic concept!

    2. Joss*

      You have my sympathy. My databasing isn’t quite that high level, but I spent much of last week trying to explain that Access literally cannot do the things my boss wanted it to do while he nodded in supposed understanding and then carried on telling me to make it do impossible things.

      1. Apollo Warbucks*

        Don’t get me started on asking a question and then ignoring the answer, there is nothing worse.

        I hate access with a passion but, what is it that you need it to do?

    3. Hlyssande*

      Data normalization/standardization is a huge pet peeve for me. How do people not understand that if you do it right from the start, with the most complete information possible, it makes everything that comes afterward so much easier?!

      I work with a customer database where we need complete name/addressing information and you wouldn’t believe how many times people think that a company name and country are enough to pass trade compliance and restricted party screening.

      Not the same thing that you’re dealing with, but I can absolutely empathize. I’m also a primary tester for our customer setup application, so I’ve butted heads a ridiculous number of times with the Devs who don’t understand what a friendly user interface looks like and do things that aren’t in the requirements because they think they’re a good idea.

      1. Apollo Warbucks*

        God yes data validation is a must, “shit in, shit out” is a good maxim and prevents having a bunch of meaningless junk that should be data.

        Devs that don’t want to listen are missing an important part of the job, you’ve got to write software the customer wants to use and is fit for purpose.

        1. Hlyssande*

          Yes, exactly! Data standards are so freaking important to our business, yet everyone thinks they should get the exceptions for crap information.

          We’ve managed to wrangle out the build process well enough – now, the people who actually maintain the application (as in, are sort of super admins for the different groups that use it) get to sit with the PMs and Devs and decide what exactly is going into each build. There are still problems with ridiculous assumptions, but it’s so much better these days.

    4. Camellia*

      I hear you. I spent my week dealing with a vendor and it went something like this:

      Me: I need the data type and length for that field.
      Vendor: It is derived.
      .
      .
      .
      Me: What value will you send me in that field?
      Vendor: It will be blank.
      Me: Really, truly blank? Or will it be nulls?

      So glad it’s Friday.

      1. Apollo Warbucks*

        I made a similar joke the other day but,

        SELECT * FROM dbo.vendor WHERE vender.clue is not NULL

        (0) Rows returned

        I’m so glad it’s Friday too, I’ve just finished for the day and am off to the pub for serval well earnt pints.

    5. Joie de Vivre*

      Storing numbers as text drives me right round the bend.
      Bonus points for when the data point appears in several different tables sometimes as a number others as text.
      Thank you, Dear Developers, for adding to my ever growing collection of grey hairs.

      1. Bea W*

        One of the first projects I worked on had this issue. It was a PIA to standardize these for analyses. The worst part is that it was one of the key variables – the subject ID.

      2. Windchime*

        We have a few data fields that we import into our data warehouse from our vendor’s system. They have an ID field called “[something]ID”, and right now it contains only numbers but is formatted on the vendor side as a VARCHAR. Which means that *we* have to format it as a VARCHAR, because if it can hold characters you can bet that someday they will pass us a character and we need to be ready for it.

        The vendor has also decided that the best format for PatientMiddleInitial is Varchar(208). Figure that one out.

    7. Natalie*

      ARRRRGH, bad databasing bugs the crap out of me. I’m not actually a database nerd, but I am a user of the database. I want the address in ONE place, not 3 places where it’s all formatted slightly different and 3 other places where the addresses are different and now I don’t know which one is current. *head explodes*

      1. the gold digger*

        How about this? I was in charge of getting all the customer and item data from 70 factories and three operating systems ready for converting to SAP.

        These were really old systems and all the text was free-form entry.

        Do you know how many ways there are to abbreviate “Texas?” Or “brown?” Or – anything? Do you know how hard it is to find all the sales made to Texas or Oklahoma or Florida if you don’t know all the ways to abbreviate those names? Bad data = no data.

        Even though the SAP project was cancelled after I was laid off (I knew they couldn’t do it without me), my team and I did a ton to make life easier by designing, implementing, and forcing, via a web interface for all new data entry, data standards for the legacy systems.

    8. Tau*

      …I started learning database design two days ago and even I know how wrong most of those things are. *shakes head*

  48. Anonymous for this*

    I just found out that one of my coworkers went to an out-of-town conference and bought his wife a plane ticket to accompany him with the company credit card. He then skipped out on the whole conference, claiming to be sick, but posted a bunch of pictures on Facebook of himself and his wife sightseeing in the city where the conference was held. What an idiot! The worst part is that I have never once been allowed to travel to a conference or training because it’s “not in the budget” for my position, but this guy gets to go to conferences at least once or twice per year on the company’s dime, and he just uses it as a free vacation.

    1. T*

      I think this is actually pretty common. I have a friend who works in HR that goes to at least one out-of-town conference a quarter and never attends a single scheduled event. She would never charge her company for a second ticket but she’ll often take her husband or one of her girlfriends (they pay for the ticket) and just share her room. But she’s not dumb enough to post pics at the beach on Facebook during a work trip. Even if she went to beach after the events ended, it just doesn’t look good.

      1. Anonymous for this*

        The boss found them on his own after he heard from someone else at the conference that this guy didn’t attend a single conference event. He also found evidence that the same thing happened at previous conferences.

    4. Cath in Canada*

      whaaaaaat

      My husband’s accompanied me on a couple of work trips, and will again in November (TOKYO!!!!! So excited), and when he’s with me it makes me MORE likely to go to ALL conference events, because I don’t want it to look like I’m treating a work trip like a vacation.

  49. MayDay*

    Not really sure if I’m looking for feedback (of course, it’s nice!), but I lost my flash drive in my purse (I think it fell out somehow) when we took visitors out for lunch in a coworker’s car. It had all my personal job stuff – job searches, cover letters, salary requests, resumes, W2’s and also some specific work projects that a few people work on.

    Apparently he found it in his car and gave it back to me yesterday. I asked how he knew it was mine and he said he looked in the folders and saw files with my name but didn’t look around. The files in the folders he was talking about have my name and “Cover Letter” or “Resume”. Apparently he also passed my flash drive around (to his boss & people), which I only found out when I asked him why there was extra stuff in my flash drive.

    Then I looked at the date accessed of some of my very personal files (salary, W2, resumes, cover letters, applications), and saw they had been open prior to me getting it back.

    Yes, I shouldn’t have lost my flash drive – I am really not sure how it fell out of my purse since I keep it zippered, but I also keep the zip drive on my desk. So maybe it’s all my fault.

    If you found a personal zip drive from work, what would you do with it? Ask around first, or check inside to see whose it is? Oddly, I found one last week as well but did not look into it – I asked around and then shipped it out to who it belonged to.

    1. Apollo Warbucks*

      I would ask around first because there are only so many people in the car who could have dropped it it would be easy to ask people or send an email to the small group.

      Maybe you could look at password protecting or encrypting the drive in future?

      1. MayDay*

        Yeah, maybe I will do that! I figured it was okay because people probably wouldn’t look through my files, but maybe I was expecting too much!

        1. Nashira*

          Never ever ever assume that people will do the decent thing, when it comes to information security. This is a case where some paranoia will serve you well in the end

    2. Ad Astra*

      I would either ask around or take a quick peek at the contents first, depending on my proximity to a computer. But it really wouldn’t take much poking around to discover who it belongs to if it contains all the documents you referenced. No need to click a document called “W-2” when there’s one called “Resume.”

      In the future, I would consider naming your flash drive “MayDay’s flash drive” and looking into installing a password or some kind of encryption. Or you could switch to a cloud-based platform like Google Drive, if it meets your needs.

      1. MayDay*

        I did start to label my other flash drives, but not this one! Google Drive might work, but I’ll have to see how much data it can hold. I use Dropbox, but I don’t have much space there at all…

    3. Arjay*

      We were taught in electronic security training that sometimes hackers will leave a flash drive in a parking lot, hoping that an employee will connect it to their computer to find out who it belongs to, and end up unleashing network havoc. I don’t know if that’s just an urban legend, but it convinced me enough that I would never connect a random flash drive to my system.

      That said, I’m not sure that if I had accidental access to salary information, I’d have enough self control not to take a peek.

      1. MayDay*

        That’s true, when I think about it, maybe my coworkers wouldn’t have enough self control either. I must not have zippered my purse well :(.

        1. Elizabeth West*

          Mine is on a lanyard I wear around my neck. I wear a separate one for my badge anyway. I got a really cute one at the Cath Kidston store in London.

      2. Nashira*

        That’s a legitimate tactic, yup. Folks doing penetration tests will use it to gain access to networks the easy way, since most folks go “wonder what’s on here?” and plug it into their machine. And a pen test uses the same methods as attackers would… You shouldn’t ever plug random storage media into a computer you want to keep secure.

    4. Lillie Lane*

      This coworker sounds dumb and rude (to snoop around and then lie about it). He should have asked you first about the flash drive (and any others in the car). If he just wanted to figure out quickly who to return it to, then he didn’t have to open any files if your name was clearly in the file names. Why on earth would he have to look through your W-2s and salary files? Ugh.

      1. MayDay*

        Yeah :(. I think it’s even weird that he passed it around for people to use. If you don’t know whose item it is, why would you give it to someone else to use if it’s not yours?

        1. Lillie Lane*

          Yeah…why was he passing it around? And why on earth did other people (including his boss?!?!) add stuff to the drive? What?? Don’t these people have their own? SMH.
          I actually do not like to use others’ flash drives because at a conference I was at a few years ago (and was helping with presentations), someone had a flash drive with a virus that would copy itself to the laptop and infect any other flash drive that was then connected. It wreaked havoc and the hosting org’s IT had to spend days helping clean up the laptops from all the presentation rooms, plus assist all the speakers that had infected flash drives.

          1. MayDay*

            Ah, I don’t like to use other people’s flash drives too, but mostly in case I forget to delete anything from it! Good point about viruses though; lucky I (usually) always have my own on me!

    5. Lizabeth*

      I second naming your flash drive. I would also password protect the folders in the flash drive if you don’t want someone to leaf through them if lost. It’s not much but better than nothing…I’m a Mac tho, so I don’t know how to do that with PC stuff.

    6. Sunflower*

      Your coworker seems a little daft. Unless he’s driving a bus, if he found a flash drive in his car, it’s like max 6 people he’d have to ask. Which can easy be done in a mass email.

      I’d put your name on the flashdrive in the future just to be safe. Although there’s not much that can stop nosy Nancys!

    7. Elizabeth West*

      Anyone with a brain would turn it in to the front desk. That’s the first place I would look for mine if I thought I dropped it.

      It would probably be a good idea to password-protect it from now on. My flash drive is protected–I had to put BitLocker on it in order to use it at work. It will log itself in on my work laptop, but on any other laptop, including my own at home, I have to enter the password.

    8. Cath in Canada*

      I’d hand it in to reception, who would send an all-staff email saying “a flash drive has been found; if you’ve lost one, please come and claim it” and only give it back to someone who was able to describe it. That’s what we do when we find phones or keys in the kitchen or other public spaces.

      I might have a cursory look at the files if no-one claimed it within a couple of days, but what happened to you is well beyond acceptable! I’d be pretty pissed off and would at a minimum be suggesting a new policy to TPTB.

      1. MayDay*

        Unfortunately while we are a huge company, we’re a small site, so we don’t really have on site IT or security! Nice in a way, but definitely not nice in other ways!

    9. AnotherFed*

      This might be a security policy difference, but I’d have had to hand it in – either to my manager or to the security POC. They’d have checked it on a special standalone machine, added a particular piece of security software, scanned it (which would probably show up as every file having been opened), and then returned it to me as clean (if it passed their scans) … which would still leave me with no idea whose it was or what was on it. If something similar happened to this drive, that could be a less creepy explanation for the file access and extra stuff on the drive.

      1. MayDay*

        We’re a big company but a small site. No real IT here, and security is pretty lax! I thought maybe antivirus would have messed with the date accessed, but I looked into it more, and nope!

  50. Amber Rose*

    Just a small rant: I have a weird… problem/illness/thing. Until it passes, however long that takes (maybe a couple months) I can’t eat very much, and I run a definite risk of throwing up immediately if I try to eat. I’m also prone to panic attacks during this time as I struggle with the psychological burden of my symptoms.

    It’s tough to have coworkers comment on my non-eating habits through this. I’m tired of arguing that no, I really don’t want you to get me something while you’re out, I’m fine with my water thanks.

    1. fposte*

      I had a colleague with that problem; she ended up with a simple surgery that helped a ton.

      Are they really arguing with you, or is it just that normal “Can I get you something? Are you sure?” is feeling more onerous than usual? If it’s the former, they’re probably untrainable, but if it’s the latter, I’d probably announce that I’m on a medical restriction at the moment and that you’d love it if people didn’t talk to you about food for a while.

      1. Amber Rose*

        A little of both. Most stick to “are you sure” but one manager will stare at me and wait for me to change my mind and others try to get me to go out with them.

        I actually really enjoy lunch with coworkers at whatever place because I like everyone here, but even the smell of food is problematic right now, and I prefer to have my headphones in and practice mindfulness at lunch so I can concentrate on not going crazy.

        1. Aunt Vixen*

          I have a friend who once, after one too many “Are you sure”s, said “I’m sure, and thank you for taking ‘No’ for an answer.” In a totally cheerful tone, so it was clear (a) that she wasn’t offended and trusted she wasn’t offending anyone else, but (b) the subject was closed.

    2. Ad Astra*

      Offices are full of nosy but well-intentioned coworkers. Have you tried saying something like, “No thanks, I’m not feeling very well”? It may be that your coworkers think you’re skipping meals in a misguided attempt to lose weight, or you can’t afford lunch, or you’re so busy that you don’t have time for lunch. A vague comment that indicates a mildly upset stomach could help, at least for a while.

    4. QualityControlFreak*

      Are you me? I have been sick all week, throwing up, desperately trying to find SOMETHING I can a) eat and b) keep down. Horrible nausea and smells do trigger it, even though there’s very little I actually can smell. And yes, there’s that shaky, light-headed, panic-attack feeling as well, and the stomach just in knots. It’s probably ulcers and the doc is doing labs, etc. I absolutely can’t wait to get this under control. My blood sugar can’t take it and I can’t afford to lose any more weight. So I’m on an anti-nauseant and a proton pump inhibitor (shuts off some of the acid) while we wait for the lab results. My work is aware it’s a medical thing and no one comments on what or how often I eat. Maybe just “Sorry, dealing with some stomach issues” in response?

  51. Jennifer*

    Well, after last week’s devastating rejection for a job I supposedly actually qualified for, I have realized that well, there really isn’t hope for this particular job and I’m just going to get canned come my next review and there probably isn’t anything I can do to stop it. (Especially since we had yet another “You’re just not pleasing us” meeting that I cried through, again, yesterday.)

    However, I am running into the following problems with job applications: I’ve never done finances, travel arrangements, working exclusively for a high level executive (I literally do support for 20+ people, but not just one big shot), and I have never done event planning professionally (what apparently surprise ruled me out of the last job). Why? Because none of these things come up in my job, or in my previous field either. I’m literally ruled out of every single job I can see available because they want at least one or more of those things.

    How the hell do I get professional counting experience in these things? I actually don’t want to do anything involving payroll and I’m not super psyched about doing travel arrangements/money things because I’m terrible at math and I’m afraid I’d get fired for screwing up finances, but at the very least I will have to do event planning or sucking up to a high level exec (or whatever the drastic difference in that is–I think it sounds probably easier doing support for one person rather than 20+, but what do I know?) even if I’m not super psyched to plan everything about an event and never throw parties on my own. So how do I fix these resume holes in my career?

    1. Joss*

      Have you done any volunteer work? Most of my event planning experience prior to my current job came from my volunteer work. I wasn’t organizing large events single handed, but I was assisting those who were and that was enough to indicate on my resume that I had been involved in event planning and had a sense of how it’s done.

      1. Ad Astra*

        I second this. My immediate thought was that you could get some experience with event planning by helping some kind of nonprofit organization.

      2. Jennifer*

        I have a volunteer job, but it doesn’t really count for any of those activities either. (Their party planning boils down to “hey, bring some food and maybe we’ll bring some toys to play with.”)

    2. LizB*

      If you see a job that wants one of those things, but that you’re otherwise well qualified for, I’d go ahead and apply for it — these mostly sound like things you could learn on the job, so it’s possible you’ll be able to convince them to hire you anyway. Whatever the requirement is, I’d spend some time thinking about the skills it would take (e.g. travel arrangements require research, working for one person requires managing their calendar) and figure out what skills you already have that are similar or transferable. Then you can say something in an interview or cover letter like, “although I don’t have professional experience working for one person, I’ve juggled the calendar for a department of 20+ people, and understand how to balance to multiple people wanting to get some time with the professionals I support.” It’s okay to apply for positions that are a little bit of a stretch as long as you can articulate why you’d be good at the work despite not having identical experience.

      1. Jennifer*

        I have been doing that and it has occasionally gotten me into a job interview, but then their faces fall when I say I haven’t done event planning or travel. I’ve been told in the interview that they don’t want to train you for doing it if you haven’t done it before. I agree that yeah, I think I could figure out that stuff if I had to, but these days nobody is giving you a chance to. I have done scheduling before and don’t think it’s a big hard deal, so at least I have that one under my belt professionally.

        I guess I better look for yet another volunteer job, really.

  52. Nanc*

    Any tech theater folks out there looking for a job? In my little corner of the PNW the Oregon Shakespeare Festival is hiring for:
    Assistant Technical Director
    Automation Electronic Fabricator
    Data Analyst
    Stage Operations Manager
    Warning: they do have a particular way they want you to apply so read the entire job description.
    Full disclosure–I don’t work for them but I’m a 20+ year member!

    1. LizB*

      Not a techie, but I’m headed up to Ashland for a week-long OSF trip next week! I’m so excited!

      1. Nanc*

        Bring your sunscreen and parasol. For some reason they’re forecasting 100s next week (we’re not supposed to get that until August!).

        1. LizB*

          Oof! I’ll plan for hot weather. At least that might mean we won’t get rained on during shows in the Elizabethan?

          1. Nanc*

            Ugh, I wish I could guarantee that but there’s always a chance of thunderstorms when we get that hot. Google the July 7 storm in Ashland! And check OSFs Facebook page for that time, I believe they had some great video of the flooding outside the Elizabethan Theatre.

    2. Ashley K.*

      Former techie very sad to not be able to head up there for that! I miss stage ops and lighting.

    3. Jennifer*

      Hah, the one guy I know who would qualify for that just got hired by the city of Portland.

    4. ThursdaysGeek*

      I was just there for a class reunion, and one of my former classmates from there is a geek (and actor) and is looking for a new job. She mentioned SOG a couple of times (Southern Oregon Geeks), so I think she’s a member there. Have you connected with them? I’ll tell her to check with the festival and apply there too. She’ll have other contacts as well.

  53. Bangs not Fringe*

    For job seekers and those in hiring, does any know if is there a difference in perception between an EAD(Employment Authorization Document) and having an actual green card? In both cases the person is not asking for any visa support.

    I ask because my spouse has had a terrible time job hunting with possession of the EAD while awaiting the green card (they are taking a long time, 9-12 months). I believe they may not be being taken seriously without the green card despite the fact that they have the right to work.

    1. Ashley K.*

      In my experience*, the question is “Do you have a legal right to work in the U.S.?” and sometimes “or do you require sponsorship?”

      Whatever answers that question closest to the employer not needing to put in a lot of extra work or deal with government and its quotas and requirements, well, that’s your best bet.

      Is your spouse advertising this in advance? I’d say unless field convention says to do it, there’s no need to disclose that before they ask.

      1. Ashley K.*

        Caveat: my experience is probably weird since I’m in the SF Bay Area and work with a lot of tech, start up, and otherwise flexible companies.

      2. Bangs not Fringe*

        On most online applications, they do ask a form of this question and the answer is “Yes” they do have a legal right to work in the US and “No” they do not now or in the future require visa sponsorship.

        I believe the fact that they had the EAD may have been disclosed on the resume and perhaps this should be removed… as you said, there’s no need to answer unasked questions.

      3. NoCalHR*

        This. If you have the legal right to work in the U.S., and do not require employer sponsorship, there’s no real difference between a green card and the EAD from the employer’s perspective. At my previous 2 high-tech jobs, we took either, no problem, and we as well at my current non-profit service organization. I’d suggest your spouse simply answer the question honestly, and don’t provide any other details.

    2. Lost in France*

      I’ll be in a similar situation in the next year or two when we move back to the US and I’m curious how long it takes to get the EAD. Do you get it when you start the green card process?

      Also, are foreigners discriminated against for US citizens even if they have the right to work? I’ve experienced a lot of that in France as a foreigner.

      1. miki*

        LPR (Green card holder) here: no, LPRs are not discriminated against US citizens (Except for Federal jobs that are exclusive for US citizens), as long as you can pass I-9 Employment Eligibility verification (http://www.uscis.gov/i-9).
        Depending on how you are planning to immigrate, you might be able to work from the moment you enter country on immigrant visa (CR1, IR1): once your visa is stamped it turns into temporary I-551 (AKA Green card) which is valid for a year (or until you get the physical plastic green card) K-1 visa holders (fiance visa) do have different process of getting permit (EAD).

        1. Bangs not Fringe*

          I’m don’t believe you can unequivocally state that immigrants are not discriminated against in favor of Americans when it comes to jobs. Being able to fill out I-9 is only half the battle. I think this is going to depend on the field and the company of course, but there are definitely prejudices and they are not laid out equally among all immigrants. Do you think an immigrant from Canada or Western Europe will meet the same challenges as an immigrant from Africa, South America or even Eastern Europe?

          1. miki*

            Well, I am from Eastern Europe and I never felt discriminated against. I am not saying that is not happening, but if you are legal immigrant you should not have problems (field dependent of course) getting a similar job provided you have qualifications job asks for. That said, I know of a person from Eastern Europe who took trucking job when he migrated to the US (he had a DDS: dentist in his home country), then switched to nursing. Some jobs are very hard to get evaluated here and require extensive follow up: more classes to have equivalency, or at the worst case scenario one has to get a US degree in the field (medical, dental, veterinary)

          2. AnotherFed*

            Depends on the job, but middle class and higher jobs are certainly discriminating based on qualifications that are harder for non-citizens to obtain. Many industries do not allow certifications, licenses, or degrees to transfer (or transfer easily) from any foreign nation or even sometimes between states. Degrees from non-US schools are usually seen as second class at best, regardless of the quality of the school, because their reputations are pretty much unknown to most US hiring managers. Also, most white collar jobs require communication and writing skills, which few people are as good at in a second language as they are in their primary language.

            1. Bangs not Fringe*

              It seems it’s most likely the judgment against the foreign degrees and experience that are really holding my spouse back. Goodness this is so frustrating! The first job is definitely going to be that major milestone.

              While my spouse does not communicate as well in English as they do in their native language, they are an incredibly articulate English speaker and are constantly teaching me new words. I find it hard to believe this would be the reason in their case although it’s always a possibility.

      2. Bangs not Fringe*

        Lost in France:

        I highly recommend visiting the VisaJourney forums to help you decide which visa path you will take (spousal vs. fiancé). I can tell you that we took the fiancé (K1) route and it has been fine but the green card took forever (2+ months to get visa, 70 days to get EAD, 10 months to receive green card). Just remember if you do K1 to file for adjustment of status asap, because 2+ months of not being able to work will get old fast for your partner.

        1. Lost in France*

          Thank you!!! This is really helpful. We have been planning to take the K1 route also because it seems more efficient to get married in the country we want to live in. Although it seems less than ideal to be planning a wedding and job hunting simultaneously while relocating from across the world, we decided it would ultimately make the visa process easier. (Although now that I’m reading the comparisons on VisaJourney, the IR1 sounds like it has its advantages.)

          We’re hoping that his current French company would allow him to work remotely as they’re likely to expand into the US market soon (they sell a reservation management system to hotels.)

          I’ve been batting bureaucracy in France for three years (I have to stand in line at 3 a.m. until around 10-11 a.m. to renew my visa) and it sounds even worse in the U.S.

          1. Bangs not Fringe*

            Be aware that if you go the K1 route, he won’t be able to legally work until he gets his EAD, even remotely for his current company. The advantage to spousal visa is definitely clear in that work permission starts on arrival to the U.S.

            Also, once you get the visa it’s valid for (has to be executed within) a certain amount of time (6 months?). In that time we prepared our move and I applied for jobs. One of the jobs that I applied to in that period is my current position. You can definitely apply from abroad if you know when you’ll be back and where you intend/want to go.

            Battling American beauracracy is different in that there are few physical lines. Mostly you get ignored and wait forever with little information of how long things will take. Best of luck.

            1. Lost in France*

              It’s good to know that it’s possible to get a job from abroad. I am worried that it will take me the better part of a year to find a job so I want to start looking as early as possible.

              That’s what I’ve heard about American bureaucracy… it almost makes me want to stay in France! Thanks for all the helpful information.

    3. Lily in NYC*

      We won’t hire anyone who needs sponsorship, but we would definitely hire someone who was simply waiting for a green card. I often see people write that they aren’t looking for sponsorship in their cover letter or resume.

  54. voluptuousfire*

    Recently I read an article about how long people usually spend researching a company for interviews and the average was two hours. How long do you spend researching companies for interviews? I usually spend about 1 1/2 hours to three, depending on how in depth I go. I found one woman who spends 10-20 hours for every interview she does. She says she treats it like a midterm exam. I don’t think that works if you’re actively job hunting. It also sounds like a hell of a time investment in something that may not work out.

    1. Retail Lifer*

      I’ll spend an hour, at most. You need to understand what the company does, how it does it, and what it’s working on now and what it’s successes and challenges are. No one’s going to quiz you on, say, the names of all the people on the board or who the Acting Vice President of Upper East Coast Chocolate Teapot Development is, unless you’re applying for a job in that exact division.

    2. Holly*

      I’ve done the one hour thing and I’ve done two straight days. I’ve put facts, product names, service line information, etc. on notecards and studied them like an exam. I’ve also put down line by line of their job description and wrote notes of where I match them (just, like, “Write press releases…” – NF, CN) etc. But it definitely is a lot and it’s a bit exhausting. Studying that intensely does help with my interview anxiety, though, and as long as I know when to quit I’m usually still energized enough for the actual interview.

    3. cuppa*

      Yeah, I would say one to two hours max. The most I’ve ever been asked is “what do you know about us” or “what makes you want to work with us” in an interview, and I think you can glean from that in just a couple of hours. I can understand that some positions may require you to brush up on their current happenings in the news, etc., but where I am that’s not really a consideration.

      1. Sunflower*

        I agree. Most of the time they want to know that you have a general idea of what they do. I usually go on their website, linkedin, maybe Facebook if they’re involved in that. And then I search them in google news. But really it’s hard to throw in some of that stuff depending on what industry youre in.

    4. S*

      30 mins the night before and then 15 mins of skimming before I leave for the interview. I just look at mission statement, history, and the staff bios and LinkedIn profiles of the people I’m interviewing with the night before, and then mission statement one more time before the interview.

    5. Nobody*

      It depends on what you count as research. I’d say I usually spend 1-2 hours researching the company to prepare for my interview — looking at the company web site, information about the company on industry web sites, and recent news articles about the company — but I spend longer than that looking at information for my personal interest. If it’s an out-of-town job, for example, I will look at real estate and information about the area to determine if I could see myself wanting to move there. I will also look up Glassdoor ratings and try to find comments or blog posts by employees about their feelings about working there. If I know the interviewers’ names, I will look them up on LinkedIn and Facebook to see what I can find out about them. If you add up all of that, it might be 4-6 hours (depending on how much I find).

    6. Ad Astra*

      I don’t think I ever spent 10-20 hours studying for a midterm exam, if we’re being honest.

      I probably spend an average of 1-2 hours researching a company, but it really depends on how much information is out there. If they have active social media accounts or there are lots of Google/Glassdoor reviews, or news articles referencing the company, I end up spending a lot more time than if they don’t have much web presence.

    7. Jennifer*

      I probably do the same as you, but nobody ever asks me about any of that information in interviews.

  55. Lucy*

    It’s my last day at my crazy dysfunctional job and I’ve gotten the silent treatment from senior staff all week. LOL.

      1. Lucy*

        The VP literally walked through our open office saying good morning (individually) to everyone but me. Sooooo happy I’m out!

    2. Ashley K.*

      Haha!

      It could be worse. When I resigned from my last job, every time I had a meeting with the CEO he’d comment that he knows the guys at my new company and should get me fired from the new job so I wouldn’t leave.

      Awkward laughs for everyone!

    4. I'm Not Phyllis*

      Ha – this happened to me at my old job! My actual boss didn’t even say goodbye – send me an email instead. I think it’s just to let us know we’re doing the right thing :)

  56. T*

    Major, unannounced reorg across the entire organization this week. Lots of weird moves that don’t make sense (probably setting things up for a second phase of changes with some key people retiring this year). Other than a handful of people that got promoted, almost everyone is unhappy. Me? My manager got promoted (good for my future and my supervisor who rocks is taking her job but keeping his title) and two people on my team, one toxic and the other incompetent, got moved to another team. Woohoo! I have to keep my poker face on at work to not display how much I love the reorg so everyone doesn’t get mad at me.

    2. Lily in NYC*

      I’m going through the same thing! We have a new president and there are big changes – they fired five incompetent top-level people and the other senior staff members are losing their minds with worry. Meanwhile, us peons are doing a happy dance because someone is actually getting rid of the people who need to go! I’m glad you are happy with your reorg too.

    1. Retail Lifer*

      I guess the one positive aspect of my job is that we don’t have sexist air conditioning. It’s always really hot in here. I would have said it’s because we’re cheap, but know I know it’s because WE CARE ABOUT GENDER EQUALITY.

    2. FD*

      Yeah, there is certainly a lot of sexist BS in the business world but I don’t think this is among it.

      Women have the option to wear full business professional if their male colleagues are, which does tend to be a warmer form of dress. If you know your office is set for suits, maybe don’t wear a summer dress?

      I grant that it’s a pain to swelter outside so you can be comfortable inside, but if you spend most of your time in the office, that rather makes sense.

      1. misspiggy*

        Ah but women’s body temperature is on average 1 degree lower than men’s, so even with warm clothing it’s still a problem.

        1. Charlotte Collins*

          Unless you are like me. I am a woman who loves lower temperatures. I’d much rather have too much AC than too much heat (which makes me grumpy and faint).

        2. Observer*

          Not close to what is being described. If the normal attire in a place is “business” or “business casual” it’s just not reasonable to ask that the temperature be set for sundresses.

      2. the gold digger*

        If I am wearing long sleeves, a scarf, a skirt, and pantyhose, I should not need to run the space heater at my desk. I do not think I am dressing too cool for the office in that outfit.

    3. nona*

      Lol no but it is pretty frustrating. A man who is more than twice my size controls the AC. I’m tired of being cold when the temperature outside is in the 90s.

      That said, where the writer mentions men and women dressing for weather differently, I’m really not jealous of men who have to wear suits in the summer while I can wear a short-sleeved dress.

      1. Sunflower*

        Yeah I must agree with this. I usually wear a sleeveless dress and then put on a cardigan when I come into the office. My job isn’t people facing so I also have a blanket I keep at my desk to put over my legs. There’s really nothing you can do when it’s 90 degree outside and 65 in the office!

        1. Observer*

          How many offices really do that? Let’s face it, most places are not going below 70 or 72, which is not THAT cold.

          1. A K Climpson*

            You’d think so, but the maintenance guy in our building came by to check on the temperature yesterday and found that my area was 63. (It was actually worse in a coworker’s office a few weeks ago).

            The article definitely struck a chord in our DC office, where everyone keeps multiple sweaters, space heaters, or (in my case) a large winter coat handy at all times.

            1. Observer*

              I’m sure the maintenance guy “fixed” that, ASAP. Not because he’s enlightened, but because that’s a huger waste.

              The reality is that what most of the posters here are describing is very different from what the article describes. When I read about a woman whining that she “has” to wear a ratty sweater over her sundress, I have no sympathy. Either dress for the office, or keep something nice in your office.

              On the other hand, if it’s at 65, I think your boss (or whoever controls the AC) is nuts. If the controller reports to someone reasonable, it think there’s a straightforward argument to be made that it doesn’t make sense to cool any space (that doesn’t need refrigeration) that low. Keep in mind that in some municipalities, during the winter landlords need to provide enough heat to bring the indoor temperature to at least 68.

    4. Treena*

      I was just coming to post this! I don’t think it’s a conspiracy, it’s just one of those things that have been ignored because men were the majority for so long. What I find funny is that if it happened to go the other way around, (women were hotter than men), because women would be dressing “inappropriately” (ie, sleeveless tops, etc.) and it would be a problem stamped as needing solving ASAP.

      http://io9.com/why-do-womens-bodies-run-colder-than-mens-836827770

      1. Lizzy*

        Same here. I am as feminist as they come, but I love having the AC being blasted as cold as it can get. I’ll let the patriarchy have that one.

      2. Wakeen's Teapots Ltd.*

        ha ha, indeed.

        And it has absolutely nothing to do with age, what makes you ask?

    7. Nobody*

      I am a woman and I like it cold! Meanwhile, I have a male coworker who is always complaining about how cold it is, and he works in a coat and winter hat (our office is casual, so he doesn’t wear a suit).

      I have to roll my eyes about the assertion that the situation is sexist against women. If anything, men should be complaining about sexism because they have to wear suits all the time while women can wear something more comfortable for the weather. If women don’t like it, they can always wear a suit to work.

      1. Charlotte Collins*

        Isn’t it just as sexist to assume that all women are too cold and complaining about the AC? Also, in my mother’s words: You can always put on a sweater. There is only so much I can do that’s office-appropriate when it’s too warm.

        Try having to go in to do testing on a Sunday in the summer (a hot, humid area, and a building without windows that can be opened) when your workplace believes that AC on the weekend is a waste of money. You’ll never complain about too much AC again.

        1. Anon the Great and Powerful*

          You can always put on a sweater, but you can’t always put on gloves and a balaclava.

          1. the gold digger*

            I take a coat to work every day, even though it’s July. Sometimes I wear it once I am inside. I know I am always the first one to get cold, but honestly – in July?

            1. Anon the Great and Powerful*

              I once worked in an office that was so over air conditioned (50Fish) that I wore a winter coat at my desk all summer. Of course, people were still sweating and asking for the air conditioning to be made even colder.

              The air conditioning wars are why I now work from home. :)

    8. Ad Astra*

      Sometimes I feel like the only woman in the world who isn’t cold all the time. I have to wear cardigans or some other longer-sleeved top to cover a tattoo (didn’t find that out until I accepted the job), but I don’t bring jackets or blankets or space heaters to work in the summer. And I wear knee-length skirts/dresses instead of pants every chance I get, because it’s really hot here. If I get a little cold, I’ll get up and refill my water bottle or something, and then I’m fine.

      It’s totally stupid, but sometimes I feel like it’s un-feminine to not be shivering at my desk. :(

    9. IndieGir*

      Woman here. I’m hot all the time, and I’m sick to death of other women in the office who come in dressed in the sheerest, lightest clothing and then complain about how cold they are. I mean really, you show up in a sheer silk skirt, no hose, and a sleeveless silk tank top and then wonder why you are cold. Put on a flipping blazer! It’s 76 degrees in here, which should be warm enough for everybody, and is certainly warm enough to keep me sweating.

      The only folks I feel sorry for are those stuck right under the air-conditioning vents. They do have a legitimate beef, but I’m not sure how you can solve the problem. The cool air has to get into the building somehow. Maybe issue sweaters . . .

      1. Jennifer*

        I wish my coworker who sat under the vent would deign to put on a sweater, but she categorically refuses because then she’d be “too hot.”

        So multiple times I hear “It got COLD in here all of a sudden!”

      2. I'm Not Phyllis*

        Yuss! There were two women at my old office who always wore sleeveless dresses – always. And we have some REALLY cold winters. They would constantly complain about being cold. Ummm, it’s winter. If everyone else is dressed for the season it seems silly to accommodate the two who dress in January the same way they would in July.

      3. Clever Name*

        OMG. Our office manager does this. She’ll wear a tissue weight “sweater” and complain about being cold all the time and how she likes it to be 80 deg. Just put on a real sweater, made of wool (or whatever) like the rest of us.

    10. Rebecca*

      I shouldn’t really comment, because for the 3rd summer in a row, the aircon hasn’t worked in my office. It’s stuffy and hot all summer long. As a bonus, the heat doesn’t work in the winter, so at least 7 months out of the year it’s bearable. Next week it’s supposed to be in the 90’s, so I will not be wearing normal office attire.

    11. CMT*

      It’s not a “sexist conspiracy”, it’s just one example out of 2359710946872 in which the standard, or neutral setting, is set to “men”.

    12. Elizabeth West*

      I suppose it could be, but in my work experience, I’ve had women cranking the AC up because they’re hot (hot flashes, pregnancy, etc.). Or I get cold because of where I’m sitting. I just keep a cardigan around and a fleece remnant in my footrest that I can use in the winter. We’re on the top floor at my current job and it’s weird, temperature-wise. I have a fan for when I’m hot after stair climbing.

    13. Shell*

      As a woman, I think this is ridiculous.

      Men’s work-wardrobe doesn’t have as much variety as women’s. We can argue why that is all day long, but work-appropriate clothes for men generally comes down to pants of various formalities/fabric weights, button-downs, polos. (I’m excluding super casual environments that allow t-shirts and shorts and whatnot because the article specified men in suits.) Women have a more variety in the summer with dresses and whatnot. Again, we can argue why that is all day long, but at the end of the day it’s not like the men can strip down and still maintain an appropriate dress for the given level of office formality (assuming it’s an environment where seersucker suits or shorts aren’t appropriate), so I think it’s fair to let them have greater say in the thermostat. Women can request a space heater, a blanket, or throw on a sweater.

      By the way, my work wardrobe is kind of like a man’s: button downs (I have 11 of them at last count), jeans on Fridays, dressed pants or slacks…and the occasional skirt or dress. But regardless of what I wear, I’m still always cold because I sit under an air vent and I run cold naturally. I understand being cold. But this is a dumb battle to pick and I certainly don’t think the coldness is from a secret plot by the patriarchy.

    14. Lily in NYC*

      Ha, it is so freezing my office today that one of the guys borrowed my sweater. It’s a really girly sweater and is tiny on him but it’s so cold he doesn’t care.

    15. Not So NewReader*

      This job- my boss is a woman. She likes the AC at 60. If I mention it, it’s never a problem to turn it up.
      Previous job- AC was controlled by remote computer. It was 45. If I mentioned it, it was always a major problem to get the AC turned up.

  58. Gillian*

    I’m on the board of a local theater group that’s been around and successful for more than 60 years. Part of this success is due to many long-standing volunteers who really believe in the group and have been basically working for it part-time for free for decades. However, we’ve started to come to a point where their longevity is hurting rather than helping and I’m not sure how to approach it with them.

    This issue has been on our radars for years (it took until last fall to convince them that selling our music through iTunes in addition to physical discs would not be the end of the world), but it’s recently gotten much worse. This came to a head within the past week or so when the board president (president since 1981, been involved since at least the 70’s, perhaps longer) both a) gave an incredibly negative speech in the middle of the opening night party for our major donors about how we’re in trouble because no one will give us money and complaining about the venue we use moving to an online ticketing system – which as far as we can tell, ticket buyers preferred anyways and b) sent belligerent, spiteful and demanding emails to the venue managers accusing them of lying (they didn’t), demanding refunds because the city is doing construction nearby (what?) and generally just being rude and awful while shooting the messenger for bad news (one of the multiple escalators needs a part replaced and it might not come in before our performances this weekend). We don’t have a good option for another venue of similar size, pricing and good location, so alienating this vendor is an awful idea!

    I know reticence to change is common everywhere, and I truly understand his worry about not being “needed” and losing control of something he’s led for longer than I’ve been alive. But how do I get across that his current behavior is very much less than professional and is hurting our image? I know if I’d donated to a group and then their president said “everything sucks, no one’s giving us money” that I’d assume they were going under and would allocate my donations to something that looked more financially sound. It’s to the point that we probably need a new public face of the organization but I don’t know of the best way to broach “You’ve given so much and we’re thankful, but we really need you to stop talking to our vendors and the public.” without just getting kicked off the board myself.

    Any ideas about increasing my tact or experience with shifting responsibilities away from someone who’s had them for a long time would be very much appreciated!

    1. Intern Wrangler*

      I’m assuming the theater company is a non profit. Does the board have term limits? It might be worthwhile to investigate those. It is considered best practices in the nonprofit field. It might start a discussion that would help board members to move along. The Charities Review Council in Minnesota has a great accountability standards tool that might be useful.

      1. Gillian*

        If only. We tried suggesting they institute term limits for executive roles about 3 years ago when also trying to set up some sort of succession plan for if something happened to one of the executive board members (our VP is 93, so it’s not a good assumption that she’ll still be around in 10 years). It got totally crushed after being deferred to committees about 5 times. The board does have membership on two-year terms but pretty much if you say you want to be renewed, you are. The entire board is elected as a slate as well, so there’s a lot of disincentive to vote nay, as you’re then voting against everyone.

        The yearly re-election of the executive officers is even worse and just treated as a routine procedural thing you have to do, similar to approving the meeting minutes from last month. As far as I know there’s not been any discussion or disagreement in decades. I’ve been half tempted to nominate someone else (or myself) for a position just to see what happens but don’t want to end up having to be president myself as I’m totally capable of recognizing I’m not qualified for that role.

    2. MsM*

      When you say “we,” who does that include? Is it you and a couple of others, or is it a majority of the board (and staff, assuming you have any)? Because the latter makes it easier to say stuff like, “Joe, I understand you have frustrations with the venue, but please be clear when you’re expressing your own opinions rather than speaking on behalf of the organization. I haven’t had the issues you seem to be having, or at least not ones I didn’t feel could be resolved, and I’d like to keep things that way.” (If you’ve only got the former, you can still pipe up with your opinion as a reminder that his isn’t universal, but it’s not likely to have the same impact.)

      Having the rest of the board on your side also makes it easier to take a look at the bylaws and either use what’s there to start easing people off and into less formal advisory roles, or set up committees so that people who are weirdly fixated on a particular thing don’t deal with that issue, or have processes in place to make sure official remarks get reviewed before the gala, or initiate the discussion about having all that stuff if there’s nothing there currently. There’s tons of best practice stuff out there from Bridgespan or Compass Point or similar organizations that you can use to make the case for why it’s a good idea if you need to start building allies.

      1. Gillian*

        I know of two others on the 18 person board that share my sentiments, and a couple who mostly agree but would rather just go with whatever happens, good or not. There aren’t any paid staff, so that’s not a help. We do have an emeritus status for board members to transition into, and the board president himself has been actively advocating for it, just not showing any interest in it himself or in encouraging those who truly should be taking advantage of it to do so.

        The entire board agrees in an academic nature that “we should have plans” and “no one should do the same thing forever” and “let’s make the best decisions for the group’s future,” they just don’t think about applying it to themselves.

        Trying to focus on organizational processes may be the way to go since that is people-independent and hopefully will stop people from taking anything too personally and just stalling the decision making process. And I’ll definitely take a look at those resources – I’ve tried to incorporate best practices into my own work with the group, but hopefully it could be of help to other board members as well.

  59. TotesMaGoats*

    Question for my mom.

    Quick backstory. My mom has been in her position as a senior administrator for 20+ years at the same place. With the same Dean as her boss. For the past 19 years, they’ve had an amazing relationship. He’s been public in his praise of her work, “Mary Poppins” reviews with raises every year, called her “the voice of God” in regards to policy. Basically she could do no wrong.

    Something has happened in the last year that has completely changed that. To the point that her recent prelim review meeting was negative, no raise and “HR will decide if you will be put on a PIP.” And she was blindsided by everything. The past year has been rough. He’s questioned decisions she’s made(that she’s made for years with no issue), publicly ripped her over things that weren’t her fault, not passed along information she should have and then blamed her for making the wrong decision on inaccurate information and the list goes on. Of course, when every email you send gets blasted, you get super anxious about what you send. So she’ll accept that their communication needs alot of improvement but the rest is pure BS. Everyone on campus is reporting the same sort of things.

    She loves her job. She’s my mentor in how to be a great boss and higher education professional. She’s respected at the state level and has presented and received awards at the national level. I feel awful that she’s being treated this way. My assumption is that part of this is due to BigBoss facing some dementia and at the point when they realize they are losing their faculties and get angry about it. The other is BigBoss has an heir apparent, whom Mom has worked with for many years with no issues, but that convalutes the communication process. Part of me thinks there is a push to get out the older employees who are paid really well.

    I know what it’s like to hate being at work so much that you cry a lot or are anxious all the time and second guess yourself. I encourage where I can but aside from trying to find a new job, which would be difficult, what other advice can I give? HR is NOT to be trusted, so that’s out.

    Should she even bother to stand up for herself? If so, how would you do that knowing the situation? I just feel awful for her and want to support her since she supported me through the suckiness that was OldJob.

    1. Gillian*

      I’m so sorry that’s happening to your mom! Is there anyone else there with long tenure who may be able to give an outsider’s perspective to things that she could talk with? Maybe another administrator of similar level in a different department?

      I’ll be thinking of her. I know how tough it can be to have a job you love transform into something awful overnight because of the whims of academic administration gone bonkers.

      1. TotesMaGoats*

        Several of the senior leaders on campus, with long “tenure”, are telling her they are getting the same sort of treatment. All are over 40, most are women. All have been there at least 15 years. Thus the thought of pushing out the older, higher paid workers.

        1. MsM*

          If the pattern’s that clear, then maybe they all need to band together and go have a conversation with an employment attorney about how to push back.

          Honestly, though, it might be better to just have a sit-down where she acknowledges that things clearly aren’t working any more and tries to figure out what they can do to part on an amicable note in recognition of all the good years they did have together. My dad did that a couple of years back when his school’s HR started making noises, and he’s currently pulling down a nice consulting fee from them because they realized there was still stuff they needed that only he could do.

    2. fposte*

      1) Has she directly asked the boss what he sees as the reason for the change? I would have asked what’s changed right after the PIP thing.
      2) Has she looked at the possibility of changing jobs? There might even be something within the same school.

      While I think the conversation in #1 is worth doing, I think #2 is really the important one here. This has been going on for a year, so it’s not a transient thing; it sounds like she’s locked into a situation where she just wants things to be the way they used to be and that’s worth hanging on for. But I think she needs to let go of that belief and decide what she wants to do.

      And as a tame academic, I get that it’s a great situation for somebody who excels in what she does and has the opposite of itchy feet, because that’s me. But people change jobs all the time, even in academics, and are fine; she shouldn’t let a fear of moving on to something new keep her in a position that’s gone sour.

      1. TotesMaGoats*

        Gets the run around on #1.

        #2 isn’t a possibility. There is only one of her job at any institution. While she’s got lots of transferrable skills I know there are no openings that she could move into.

        She’s open to looking for other jobs but the problem she faces is that higher ed in our state is very close knit, so rumors are going to fly if she starts looking. She’s over 40 and female. She’s got crazy amounts of experience but only a BS degree, so that makes searching harder for people who don’t look beyond a piece of paper. She close-ish to retirement but really enjoys working and I don’t honestly see her being happy in a position with less responsibility/authority.

        I think she needs to be more aggressive in responding to the hits she takes from him but recently they’ve been so out of the blue that the shock locks her up. I can’t imagine having years upon years of reviews where you are told you are perfect (literally) and then out of the blue get a “needs improvement”. I wouldn’t know how to respond to that. Note that at no time during the last year was there any discussion on areas of improvement. Just blasting with no follow up and, often, mind changes on what actually needs to be done. Makes your head spin.

        1. fposte*

          I don’t know what you mean by “be more aggressive.” Can you explain what you’re thinking there? It sounds to me like just turning it into an argument that she’ll lose.

          If this is because the boss is suffering from dementia, it’s not related to any larger concerted push; if it’s a larger concerted push, it’s not related to the boss’s dementia. (I’m skeptical about a larger concerted push anyway–not only is it an inefficient way to safe money, it requires a level of concert that academics generally finds pretty difficult.)

          I still thinking looking for a new job is the best option here, and I don’t see why she needs to care that rumors are going to fly; talking to networks is what networks are for, and it’s pretty common to sound them out in academic life, in my experience. It does sound like she’s got limited flexibility, but some of that may be self-imposed; that’s her call, as long as she knows that she’d rather stay in a job she’s not enjoying and may possibly be losing, if your suspicions are right, than look out of state or get people talking.

          In short, it sounds like it sucks, but I think both you and she are focusing on the injustice of it. That’s understandable on a personal level, but even if that does get addressed it’s not likely to return this to the job she wants. So if it’s not the job she had before this year, does she still want it? Does she want to stay in state enough to keep it?

          1. TotesMaGoats*

            You’ve made some good points and are right. The injustice, hurt, shock is what we’ve been focused on. I know my mom won’t leave the state with kids and grandkids here but accepting that working there just might not be the best thing is worth considering.

            1. fposte*

              And I’m in a position not too dissimilar from your mom’s, and if my job turned sour I’d be devastated; there would be a real grief process there. So I do understand all of that, I think–it’s just that it’s really separate from the question about what to do.

              I don’t think it’s necessarily a mistake to stay where she is, but I think it would helpful if she detaches from the sadness about what the job was and now isn’t; lots of people have jobs they’re not crazy about and bosses who don’t support them and they’re okay. It’s clutching onto the “if only” that will make you crazy.

              1. TotesMaGoats*

                I think you hit the nail on the head there and as I counselor by training, I should’ve picked up on it. It’s a grief process.

                I didn’t answer your earlier questions about aggressiveness. Based on what she’s told me, she hasn’t really stood up for herself in the moment when “accused” of something. Probably because she’s been bowled over with shock when it happens. Because generally, it’s a case of she hadn’t been told that the policy/rule/arbitrary decision of the day had changed.

    3. Victoria, Please*

      Is there a university ombuds? If so, do they handle staff at all?

      I’m so sorry, this sounds unbelievably difficult and heartbreaking. Twenty years of “You’re awesome! I love you!” and suddenly it turns to “You suck and I hate you” is traumatizing.

  60. GG*

    An awkward situation came up at work this week, and I’m hoping some of you might be able to offer some advice.

    Background: I’m the bookkeeper at a small company (14 employees). The official company owner is semi-retired, and leaves the day-to-day operations to the VP. In addition to keeping the books for the company, part of my job responsibility is to also keep (very simple) books for the owner himself, and few other companies he has hands in. I’d say I spend maybe 15% of my time on those other books.

    This week the owner asked me if I could help his son get books set up for a small business he started last year. I asked if he meant that this would be on the clock (as opposed to something I’d do after hours for separate pay), and he said yes – on the clock. I said that I could probably find the time in my schedule to help the son get set up and trained.

    But now I’m wondering if the VP even knows about this situation, and is cool with company resources (my time) being allocated that way. I kind of want to run it by him, to make sure. But if he does already know, I don’t want to be perceived as tattling, or trying to second-guess the boss.

    1. Lunar*

      I think you can maybe mention this in a more casual way than by making it seem like a Big Deal that the owner is trying to keep from the VP. You could VP “Would next Tuesday be a good day for me to spend some time with Owner’s Son to get him set up?” and see what he says. If he seems surprised, then follow up by explaining what the owner asked you to do and asking if it would be okay.

      In my (completely uninformed opinion) it seems like this would be okay to help out the son if doing personal/non-company related work for the owner is part of your job description now.

      1. GG*

        I can’t quite apply your suggested approach, as I don’t normally check in with VP about scheduling my workload. But I will look for other ways I might be able to “casually” mention it.

    2. Observer*

      What do you mean by “official owner”? If he owns the company, it’s his call. If the VP is a partner, that’s a different story.

      1. GG*

        The “owner” created the company and still owns the majority percentage. The VP has basically taken over operation of the company and now owns a percentage, but not as much as the “owner”.

        1. Observer*

          Well then, he’s not the “owner”, he’s the MAJORITY PARTNER. Which means that unless it’s something like a 60 / 40 split, the main owner gets to pretty much call the shots, unless it presents an operational issue.

  61. M.*

    Started a new job on Monday. Still manufacturing but it was better pay and hours. The first night wasn’t so good, didn’t meet with my trainer and was stuck with some girls doing some work where one kept asking why I was so bad at it. Anyway, something had happened while I was not feeling too well the Friday before and it had caused a medical issue. After getting out of work Monday night, sometime Tuesday morning my heart decided to reset itself. Which ended up with me in the ER. My temp agency then decided that I needed to have a doctor clear me before I could return to work, and that they would explain everything to the company, and that it shouldn’t be a problem because the whole thing was beyond my control.

    I have a shitty PCP that you have to leave voicemails for everything for. I’ve called several times, they never got back to me. I called a new office to see if they could somehow do the clearance for me, but they can’t, its not ethically okay since they don’t have my records. I called up my temp agency to explain this, and they communicate with the company, assuring me everything would be fine because its not my fault. End result, because its taking so long for me to get in touch with my doctor, the company decided to end my assignment. Because there isn’t enough work (they are still hiring right now because “they can’t get enough people in the door” — the temp reps tone of voice told me he didn’t believe it and the med assistant I spoke to later at a different doctors office swore on the phone when I told her, I guess this place uses this excuse all the time to get rid of people for med stuff) and for attendance issues, for failing to show up after the first day. I’m so upset.

    The temp agency said that once I get cleared they will find me a new job. My old job that I ended up being allergic to an ingredient used wants me back, but the pay sucks and so do the hours (10+ hr shifts up to 6 days a week for $9). I can’t get a hold of my doctor and rent is due next week (and I can’t pay for either). The old job is shitty and they won’t care about medical clearance. I’m really at a loss on what to do.

    1. cuppa*

      I might be missing something, but couldn’t the ER doc give you a note? When I went to urgent care, they gave me a note even though they weren’t my regular doctor.

      1. M.*

        I have tachycardia that occurs a lot, talking about almost 140-150 bpm laying down, and it sends me to the ER a lot. This time my heart reset itself in almost a hard, stop, start up sort of way. The ER doctor had experience with this sort of thing, said it was most likely a nervous system disorder and is recommending beta blockers. I need to see my PCP for a follow up, and to see if they will prescribe them for me. No one wants to make a decision on me going back to work until I see my PCP.

        1. Judy*

          Not to nose into your medical conditions, but if you’re having a heart issue that sends you to the ER every so often, should you be seeing a cardiologist rather than a PCP?

          1. M.*

            I’ve seen one. I have a heart defect but its not causing the tachycardia. They are pretty sure its not a cardiology issue but rather a neurological/nervous system issue. The PCP was just because my temp agency wanted a follow up medical with a note stating it was fine for me to go to work (nothing special but your regular doctors note).

  62. Joss*

    This week has been a hell of a struggle.

    My boss’s daughter got quite sick, so he’s been out of the office — which is perfectly reasonable. What’s not reasonable is that he was so far behind on everything before she got sick, I’ve had to spend this week putting out fires, rushing to finish projects I had no idea were in the works, and scrambling to answer questions from HIS boss while trying to sound like I’m trying to throw my boss under the bus during a difficult personal time.

    Part of me thinks I need to have a conversation with big boss about my boss’s weaknesses, but I’m worried that doing it at this point in time is going to come across as insensitive at best or as thought I’m actively trying to undermine him at worst.

    1. Moss*

      I think the timing is bad for a conversation like that. Besides, it sounds like the big boss is starting to get the picture on his own. I feel like you’re doing the right thing by being as helpful as you can. Maybe email your boss, explain that big boss has been asking questions, and ask if there’s any projects he’d like you to help out with while he’s out caring for his daughter? (And really, your boss’s performance is ultimately the big boss’s responsibility, not yours. Especially if it’s on projects you aren’t even involved with.)

      I was once in a similar situation with my manager–she was out sick and the big boss was freaking out because nothing was done. It was like our roles had suddenly been reversed and I was now the poorly performing manager because I couldn’t answer the big boss’s questions. I too, wondered if I should tell the big boss, “Jane waits until the last minute to get her work done and is behind on several projects.” In the end I didn’t, because as you said, it sounded like I was trying to undermine her.

      So when she got back, I explained what had happened and she apologized. I told her that if she had too much on her plate, I’d be happy to help out with some of it or train the interns to do it. (I think she had a problem with delegating.) Things got better, and I left for a higher paying job before I ever found out if that tactic was truly effective. But, if the situation occurred again and I had to go over her head, I would’ve felt less undermining if I could say that I had talked with her about it in the past and she promised to make changes but hadn’t followed through.

      Good luck!

    2. Not So NewReader*

      You can make sure Big Boss knows you are doing your best. You can remind him that this is work/projects that you do not ordinarily handle. If applicable you can say, “I have to find my boss’ train of thought before I can jump in and just start doing things.”

      I have also said things such as “Jane has her own system that I am not entirely familiar with.”

  63. CoffeeLover*

    Do you find you overanalyze more or too much at work? I’m not the kind of person who overanalyzes things unnecessarily in my life. I usually take things at face value and my life is simpler and happier as a result. I’m new in my career, but I find I’m overanalyzing and overthinking a lot more than I’m used to. I.e., I think over what I’ve said or how to say something to my colleagues. I don’t overanalyze what my colleagues are saying, but more in what I’m saying and how I’m interacting with them. Honestly, I think reading AAM has made it worse because I’ve seen so many people writing in upset because someone said something the wrong way. I’m wondering if this is a result of being new in my career. Does this urge to overanalyze go away once you become more comfortable in the office?

    1. CrazyCatLady*

      I think AAM has made me much more conscious of what I say, more so than when I was new to working professional jobs.

    2. CMT*

      I’ve been on an AAM binge lately, and I do feel like I was way over-analyzing some things this week. Or maybe I was under-analyzing them before? It’s hard to tell.

    3. Anony*

      My work mentor recently moved on to another, better paying job in our field. I really respect the mentor, even now that she has moved on, but the rest of the office proceeds to verbally bash them for anything that happens currently, whether the mentor was involved at all or not. When I’m included in a conversation when the mentors name is blamed, I either am silent or change the subject. Needless to say, the environment gets uncomfortable sometimes. Is this common in the workplace, when good co-workers leave and the office is resentful and catty about it?

    4. Cath in Canada*

      How much is too much? Is all the time too much? I don’t know if I overthink too much or not. Is that normal?

      i.e. yes, I overthink everything! No more at work than in other parts of my life though. Scientific training (where you have to constantly challenge your own hypotheses and come up with alternative explanations and potential pitfalls) on top of a naturally occurring personality trait did me no favours :D

  64. OneWomanShow*

    Dealing with a controlling boss

    I have a boss who is giving me contradictory directions. During one conversation, he will say “I trust you. You’re a professional” and in the next it’s “you don’t tell me you’re doing things, you ask my permission to do them.”

    Given that I have only been in this position for 3 1/2 months, and it’s a restructured job created from one at a very high level, I am somewhat confused. I am happy to ask my boss if things are okay, but I’m never sure what reaches that level. Sometimes he’ll respond with an annoyed “it’s your call” and other times his reply will assert a great deal of control.

    To make matters worse, he has a tendency of sending urgent emails late Saturday afternoon when I am unable to answer his questions and am preparing for dinner or other socializing. I then spend the remainder of my weekend incredibly stressed about resolving the issue, which he then downplays as “minor” or “nothing” on Monday morning.

    Does anyone have any advice? I have no staff to support me, and I report directly to the CEO.

    Thanks for taking time to read!

    1. Bekx*

      My last boss was like this. She would tell us to order teapot manuals from the printer. We’d ask her how many she wanted and she would look at us with an evil smirk and go “Well, I hired you for a reason. You should be able to figure it out. I trust you.” So we ordered 2000 (after checking how many we ordered last year, how many we used in the year, how many teapot conferences we had upcoming), and the next day she screamed at us asking us how we could be so STUPID, did we think she was just MADE of money? 1000 is plenty and we obviously miscalculated.

      One thing I tried that worked somewhat decently was saying “I’m ordering 500 manuals, does this sound like the amount you had in mind?” or “We used 500 last year, so I’m thinking 750 will be a great amount to ensure we don’t run out.” I’d still get a snarky response of why I’m asking her this, but usually she would say yes or no at the end.

      Ultimately though, if your boss is anything like my old one, not much can change them. I left and am much happier.

    2. Lunar*

      I don’t have a lot of answers, but I can empathize. I often end up doing things and being told to “make the project my own” only to have it completely redone by my boss. I do think that Bekx’s advice above is excellent. Instead of asking an open-ended question run an idea by your boss. It will show that you thought about it at least and prompts him to give a yes or now answer.

      As for the weekends thing, could you just try ignoring them or not checking your email? I often think that something is a big deal if it comes up over the weekend and I either feel pressured to fix it right away or worry about it until I’m back in the office. But I’ve found that my bosses and co-workers don’t really expect these things to be done over the weekend or notice if they are. I try to not look at my work email over the weekend unless I am expecting something specific. I realize that this wouldn’t work with every job, but it might work with yours. I tell myself that if there was a serious problem that needed my immediate attention I would get a phone call. If you did get a bad reaction for not being on call over the weekend then you can say that you were busy with other obligations during non-work hours. And at least then you would know what was expected of you instead of trying to guess based on all of the mixed signals.

    3. Elizabeth West*

      I don’t know if you’re exempt, but especially if you’re not, stop checking your email on the weekend. Unless you’re on call, you don’t have to. You don’t have to stress yourself out just because he’s freaking out. If he says, “WHY DID YOU NOT ANSWER MY EMAILLLL WRRRGGGBLBLLLE” say, “I can’t get to X on weekends and it’s easier and faster to resolve issues in the office on Monday.”

  65. Birgitta*

    Can a journalism degree be used to work in the media ‘generally’?

    I have one semester to go with my journalism major and I already know I don’t want to be a journalist, but I wouldn’t mind doing stuff like PR/Editing/Media Relations/etc etc. Can my qualifications be used for jobs like this? By the time I realised I didn’t want to be an actual journalist, it was too late to change my major.

    2. Gillian*

      I’ve used my degree in English Literature (with a focus on the development of the novel and Regency-era fiction) to work in PR, marketing, development and corporate communications.

      For most of those kinds of jobs, they just want to know that you understand how to write well for a specific audience, which your journalism degree should have taught you very well. Best of luck!

    3. Ad Astra*

      Boy does this sound familiar. The short answer is yes, you can use a journalism degree to work in PR/Media Relations/Editing/Internal Communications/Marketing/etc.

      The long answer is this: You will have an easier time finding jobs in these fields if you have internship experience. Do you have internships in any of these fields? Is there still time to land an internship for your final semester? Or maybe a job selling ads for your campus paper?

      The skills are absolutely transferable, but you may be competing with applicants whose internship/college experience makes them extremely straightforward, conventional candidates for these jobs. If you enjoy writing, you might be a strong applicant for job titles like “content marketer” or “brand journalist.” It’s basically reporting and editing but with better hours, better pay, and fewer angry readers to deal with.

    4. Felicia*

      Yes. I have a journalism degree and work in PR/communications. But what you’re going to have to do is get internships and volunteer experiences in those fields. The first internship I ever did in PR was during my final semester of school. I did 3 internships, and one long term volunteer thing, which is normal. It’s a very hard field to get into, basically as hard as journalism, but it’s definitely possible. A lot of what you learned in school, especially the writing skills, would be very valuable in PR.

    5. CherryScary*

      Studied journalism, currently work in marketing. I had the same realization you did my senior year. I found that most places are looking for solid writing skills, and possibly other media experience (i.e. video, web, etc.)

    6. Lizzy*

      Yes, I made the switch. And like others have mentioned, internships are a must to get your foot in the door.

  66. Lost in France*

    Hi, I’m a frequent reader and first-time commenter. Alison suggested I post my question here, and I’d love to get ideas and advice for my current struggle – figuring out how to launch a career in my late 20s, and deciding what kind of skills and education I should acquire to increase my professional options.

    So, let me explain. I’m 28, and I’ve spent the last three years teaching English in France (currently at the university level) and this coming year will be my fourth and probably my last because as a foreigner I do not have the option to extend my contract. I want to move back to California, but I don’t plan to continue teaching. I’ll be 30, but I worry about getting an entry level position that will lead to career advancement with my current level of experience.

    I’ve been urged to pursue a Masters (my parents got their Masters and Ph.D at Stanford and UC Berkeley, so the pressure’s on) but I will most likely have to support my partner while we wait for his green card for the first year in the states, and I hesitate to make that kind of investment without really knowing what I want to do or if I’ll be able to get a job afterwards. But on the other hand, if I had started a Masters two years ago, I would be much further along instead of still stuck where I am now.

    It’s also been suggested that I take online courses before going back to the US, which I think is a great idea, but I don’t know where to start! Learning a bit about coding (and which language?), web design, database management – what is in demand? And is it the case that accredited online courses (e.g. from the University of Waterloo) are viewed more favorably than courses which don’t offer university credit, like through Coursera?

    I know it all depends on the job and industry, but I don’t have a direction firmly in mind, and I think I’ll have to cast a wide net to find viable opportunities. I’m drawn towards creative positions or jobs where languages are an asset (I’m fluent in French) but I’m discouraged by the pay and limited opportunities. I’m also interested in recruiting, editing, content management, travel, education…

    I want to choose something with enough demand that it won’t be a bitter struggle to find a job and advance. (I was a working musician in my early 20s, so I’ve already done the bitter struggle thing.) My recent experience outside of English education was as a personal assistant to a CEO, which required me to conduct and present research, recruit international assistants, manage his extensive travel, and take care of all communication in French – basically, anything that needed to be done, I did it. But I don’t know if this experience can lead to anything besides another PA job (which has its good points but isn’t something I would want to do forever) just as I don’t know if my teaching experience can lead to anything but teaching English abroad.

    I’m curious to know if anyone else has taught English abroad and what you did afterwards, or if you have any advice on starting a career after 5+ years out of school. Please give me some hope! I’ve never job-hunted in the US and I have no idea what kinds of jobs and career paths are realistic for me. Any advice is appreciated.

    1. Bekx*

      I’m a web and graphic designer. For web design (not development) you want a master knowledge of HTML, CSS and JavaScript. Graphic design skills are such a huge plus that I’d personally consider it mandatory. I have a pretty advanced/expert knowledge in Photoshop and InDesign and working knowledge in Illustrator, Premiere (my job requires some video), Fireworks and Dreamweaver (I code in Notepad++ though, not in DW). I’d also recommend email marketing and social media, as well as skills in some advanced programming language. I can fudge my way through php and xml. I think it’s difficult to be a web designer without a huge variety of skills. I’m valued because I can make brochures, create email marketing and manage our web sites. I’m sure there ARE jobs out there where you only need to know one thing, but when I was job searching I didn’t find that many in my area that were full time with benefits.

      I did go to school for web design, but I’m mostly self taught. That being said, I think with any programming languages (whether you’re looking at web design languages, web development languages, computer programming or database languages), you really need to know if this is something you’d like to do. I don’t think these are really skills that you can just go into because you think you might make money. HTML/CSS are pretty easy to learn. With things like tumblr, myspace, live journal….I think a lot of people learned how to do basic stuff, and you really have to dig deep if you want to make a career out of it.

      If the above still appeals to you, I’d try to figure out what you’re mostly interested in. To me, it sounds like a more creative outlet like web design is more your thing. Computer Programming and Web Development are much more mathy and codey. There isn’t as much design and usually designers and developers do not overlap. Developers and programmers are DEFINITELY where the money is, compared to web/graphic design. It’s definitely a skill — and one that I personally did not excel at.

      I hope this helps a bit, sorry I wrote a novel. I can’t help with the rest of your post, but hopefully I gave you a bit of insight on my experiences in web design.

      1. Lost in France*

        Thank you!! This is really informative. (and intimidating, haha! I’m just learning HTML and CSS with free tools online.) I didn’t think about learning coding/databases/web design so much to have a career doing those things as I’d need a LOT more than a year of on-the-side online classes to become proficient, but more just to have some marketable skills. For example, if I were a technical recruiter, it would help to be familiar with different coding languages, or if I worked in customer service for a technology company I would have to have some knowledge to explain things effectively to customers. But maybe it doesn’t make sense to learn these skills if I’m not going to pursue them further? I have had fun so far learning how to use HTML/CSS but clearly I would have to learn a LOT more skills to do anything significant. I guess I’m trying to figure out how to make up for lack of cohesive experience with marketable skills, but I may be going about it the wrong way.

        1. Bekx*

          Ohhh. Okay.

          I’d say they could help depending on what kind of jobs you’re looking at…but I think you need to decide what jobs you’re looking for first!

          But if you’re enjoying HTML/CSS, I’d definitely recommend playing around some more! It can be fun, and who knows…you might have use for it in a volunteer position or something!

          1. Lost in France*

            I think I will, it’s interesting and knowing something is better than knowing nothing, right? I know a bit about blogging, social media, etc. so this seems complementary to that. The teensy bit I’ve seen of JavaScript makes it seem quite difficult to learn… but I’ll give it a try. And if I fail miserably at least I’ll know more than I did.
            I’m so impressed by all the skills you’ve mastered for your career! Your job sounds really cool.

            1. Bekx*

              Thanks! I started learning HTML/CSS and Photoshop when I was 12. Indesign & Dreamweaver when I was maybe 16? I’m 26 now, so I’ve had quite a bit of time…but believe me, I had absolutely no social life in high school which helped me learn all the other stuff!

              1. Lost in France*

                Wow, that’s awesome! I spent my teens and 20s in a music bubble (someone told me it wouldn’t matter what degree I had as long as I had one, and I believed them.) Great that you started building those skills so young.

    2. Treena*

      I’m sort of doing things backwards. I’ve worked three years in public health and I’m planning on maybe teaching English abroad to help me transition into global public health. I would try to 3-5 career paths that value working with children, education in general, or languages. Explore those in your last year of France and see what calls you. Use Coursera and other free options to see if you like actually doing it and then go farther down whatever path you see fit.

      I’m assuming that your partner isn’t EU and you want to be back in California, right?

      1. Lost in France*

        Ack I wrote you a whole response and my computer ate it! Anyway, thank you for your advice! I am not totally sure which career paths value education and language where the job market is good, a Masters isn’t required, and there is room for career growth down the road, but I won’t know until I try, I suppose. I also want to focus on something transferable/flexible in case we ever move back to France, but maybe I’m being too difficult. I will look at more classes on Coursera, that’s a great idea.

        My partner is French and we might stay here another year so that he can get more work experience before we’re both unemployed newlyweds in the US. I would like to be closer to my family and I would like to see if I can have a successful career instead of just getting by indefinitely. (My current job is for foreigners, so even EU nationals who don’t need a visa can’t hold it for longer than two years.) It’s very difficult to change career paths in France as they put a lot of importance on your degree and don’t seem to believe in transferable skills. (My boyfriend got slack at interviews for having experience in marketing as well as in sales when he was applying for a sales job. Heaven forbid he be able to do more than one thing.) And since I didn’t go to university in France… my prospects wouldn’t be great. But if I could find good opportunities to work remotely I would stay here, except that I would like to be closer to my family (and good Mexican food).

        1. Treena*

          I’m assuming you don’t want to get your teacher’s certification, right? I’m thinking education companies (places that make materials for education), or those companies that sell educational travel packages (incoming or outgoing students) would be good places to start. If you like to write, you can start freelance writing about expat life in France, etc.
          I wouldn’t focus too much on room for growth later on, just find something you want to do. If you’re interested and know a little bit about social media marketing, I’d try that out because that can be your backdoor into a company that does different things, and you can see firsthand a variety of industries.

          1. Lost in France*

            Nope, I have pretty much no interest in teaching in the U.S. for a lot of reasons. I do find social media communication interesting, although I don’t have any professional experience. I’m trying to think strategically about the future so I don’t wind up back with the same problems down the road, but of course some things are unpredictable! It would be interesting to see how different industries work first-hand, that’s a good point. Thanks!

        2. phillist*

          There are a lot of global non-profits that value French fluency; it’s the second working language of the UN. You might want to look at Admin/Executive Assistant roles where French fluency is a huge asset.

          1. Lost in France*

            I’m trying to stay away from admin positions as I’m making steps towards a permanent career change (I’d prefer to do an internship or go back to school rather than take a job that won’t lead to new things) but I will certainly look into other roles at global non-profits. Thanks for the suggestion!

    3. cv*

      Never taught abroad, but I bummed around in jobs that weren’t very interesting to me for several years and then went to grad school (for a double masters) at 31. I love grad school, but do *not* go if you don’t know what you want to do and how the degree will help you get there. Especially if you’d be paying tuition rather than having it paid for in some way. I’ve seen too many people go to grad school when they weren’t sure about it, and it just kicks the can down the road while racking up debt.

      I think in your position I’d look for an admin/executive assistant job at a place that sounds interesting and take a year or two to get yourself settled back in the US and figure out your long-term plans. Look for organizations focusing on music, or education, or working with a French-speaking immigrant community, and your resume would be pretty strong.

      1. Lost in France*

        Thanks for your ideas! The grad school I’m thinking about at the moment is the translation and localization program and the Middlebury Institute of International Studies. I think I would love it and I think it would lead to good job opportunities, but I’m mainly worried about what it would do to my relationship as we’d just be getting to the US and neither of us would have a job, a car, etc, and we’d be under a lot of stress.

        I’m actually surprised to hear you suggest getting an admin job because I’ve always been under the impression that it’s hard to move into a different role from there, especially within the first year or two. I worry that if my CV is all admin, PA, English teacher, that I wouldn’t have access to other kinds of jobs. But maybe that’s not the case at all? Most of my friends are English teachers or musicians so I’m not really sure how regular careers work, to be honest!

        1. cv*

          I guess I wasn’t thinking of an admin job as a stepping stone to something else, but more a way to pay the bills and get US-based office experience while you figure things out/decide about grad school/take some classes to learn specific skills/job search from a local address. But if you could skip straight to what you want to do, that would be even better!

          I bounced around a few different jobs and volunteer gigs over my 20’s, and even the ones where I was doing totally boring data entry weren’t wasted time – I got a sense of what I like and don’t like about private sector versus nonprofit, big company versus small, working mostly with people versus mostly on my own, and that sort of thing. And having more references who can speak to your work ethic and how you function in an office/on a team never hurts.

          1. Lost in France*

            I’m hoping to figure things out now so that I have a year to prepare for the next steps. I’m anxious to start building something. It’s true that there’s something to learn from all experiences (even if it’s just that you never want to have the same experience again!) and I agree that it’s really valuable to know what kind of environment you work best in. I lost touch with one of my best job references last year (she left the company shortly after I did) but luckily my current bosses speak English. Would be less helpful if they could only give me a reference in French!

        2. AnotherFed*

          If you want office work rather than teaching work, having some US office experience will be very helpful for you – even if you go back to school, getting any office experience you can while in school (working for student services, internship, part-time work, anything) will start building a resume and people to serve as references to help you get future office-based work.

          1. Lost in France*

            The program I’m looking at does include an internship, which I never had in undergrad. I’m not sure how I would manage grad school with my family situation, but maybe I can make it work. Thanks for your suggestion!

    4. Silver*

      I know my reply is a little late but i hope it might be helpful.

      Are there any French companies with an office in the area you want to move to? Being Bi-lingual at a high level can be helpful in those sorts of organisations. Look for those doing work that interests you and check for open positions.

      Translation work tends to be more freelance but perhaps there”s a conference or symposium or institution with a French center/strand. Or a French language school looking for administrative staff, I believe there is a Lycee Francais or similar in LA.

      There may also be work around Hollywood for bi-lingual people to assist visiting stars. Although these positions have a tendency to be hypercompetetive and low paying.

      1. Lost in France*

        Thank you for some new ideas! I’m trying to launch myself into a career with room for growth so I want to stay away from anything that won’t lead to further development, but I particularly like your idea about looking for French companies to work with. There are more and more French startups moving to Silicon Valley so that’s something to look into.

        I have seriously considered getting a masters in translation/interpretation because I love language and I like that it’s something that doesn’t tie me to one location. I decided against it because it seems like most of the work is translating technical manuals or interpreting at policial conferences in Africa, and I decided I didn’t want to spend the majority of my time doing either of those things. I’m also concerned about the investment of two years in grad school when pay is likely to be quite low afterwards. (I’ve worked on smaller translation projects before but I don’t think I’d be taken seriously by most employers without a masters plus a certificate.) But I do keep coming back to it, so maybe the pros outweigh the cons.

        I’ve also seriously considered hospitality but most of the info I’ve seen on career paths is discouraging.

        Anyway, thank you for your response! I appreciate your ideas.

  67. jobHunter*

    Yes! I’ve been waiting for this!

    I’ve been job searching remotely and had two interviews scheduled a few weeks ago. I was excited about both initially, but after interviewing vastly preferred job A.

    Job B, on the other hand- everyone was nice enough but it sounded like A LOT of work for the salary range/job title, and I didn’t really mesh with the potential boss, and when I asked about timeline they said “well, you’re the 10th interview, and honestly, we’ll probably have to set up more interviews, too” which I took as a “don’t count on it” which I was fine with as I didn’t really want the job after the interview.

    I end up getting a job offer a week ago from Job A, and after negotiating, accept. As a matter of courtesy, I email Job B telling them I appreciate their time but I’ve accepted another role, best of luck, etc.

    To my surprise I immediately got a reply saying that they were getting ready to call me to offer me the job and would I please reconsider, etc.

    So what do I say, because honestly I thought they weren’t interested in me, and I wasn’t really interested in the job to begin with? “Thanks, but I’m going to stick with the original offer”? Or do I mention how I wasn’t interested anyway?

    1. Formerly The Office Admin, Now Full Time Job Huntress*

      I think you could say something like, I appreciate you wanting to make me an offer, but I’m quite excited about the position and company I’ve committed to, but thank you for your time and interest!

      I don’t think you need to say you weren’t really interested, not that it’s rude but just a bit unnecessary.

    2. Apollo Warbucks*

      I would say something like:

      “I’ve already accepted another job which I am committed to, thank you for your offer but I’m not able to consider it”

      Don’t draw attention to fact you weren’t bothered about the job, it wont help anything.

  68. Formerly The Office Admin, Now Full Time Job Huntress*

    I had an interview yesterday!
    But, I’m a bit bummed about it, because although it pays well(really well, actually) the phone interview screen(from headquarters in another state) led me to believe that the schedule wouldn’t require me to work every weekend.
    The interview yesterday(at the location the position is at) was like, so…. this position is every Thursday Friday Saturday and Sunday afternoon and evening indefinitely.
    My husband works a traditional Monday to Friday 8 to 4:30…we only spend time together on the weekends and I’m just over here like: Noooooo job, why? Why must it be every single weekend?

    On the upside, I saw a position listed for a company that I have a former colleague working there, who I emailed and told, so I name dropped you in my cover letter at position at satellite office…and he was like, let me go talk to the one who does the hiring for our satellite offices! Fingers crossed for this one!

  69. Lore*

    I think I’ve pretty much decided what to do in this specific instance, but I’m curious for feedback as the general principle has come up before and probably will again.

    I work for the largest company in my industry. Our benefits are excellent and while it’s not a particularly high-paying industry in general, I am paid pretty well for what I do. I’m at the highest individual contributor level available. A few years ago, I started to feel like the role was getting a little stagnant and started having conversations with my managers about it. It took two years and a turned-down job offer elsewhere, but they eventually created a new title for me that allows me to take on some projects in related areas. All of which is great…but also doesn’t necessarily mean that I want to be doing this exact job/combination of jobs for the remaining 20-some years till I retire.

    Unfortunately, the jobs that I’d be interested in/qualified for seem to fall into three categories–lateral moves at competitors that feel like they would be change for change’s sake without gaining anything; stretch positions that either want management experience or technology skills that I touch on in my job but don’t have extensive professional experience with; or positions that are a step up on paper but at a much smaller company (which is the kind of offer I turned down), which has seemed to mean taking a cut in pay and benefits as well as moving to an organization with fewer resources, less interest in the new-technology developments in the industry (which are of great interest to me), and less forward-thinking management in general.

    I recently saw a job posted at a competitor that’s known for both the quality of its product and how terribly it pays. In some ways, I think I’m exactly who they’re looking for–they’re approaching a technology transition we’ve been going through for the past several years at my company and I’m pretty well-versed in the pros and cons of the different approaches to it right now. But I can’t get excited about the prospect of taking on a management role that includes a likely pay cut (not certain, but I know that for the equivalent of my current position they pay $15-20K less so I imagine the middle manager role would be at best on par with where I am now) and a five-years-backwards step in technology. So I decided not to apply for that one.

    I will keep applying to the stretch positions when I see them but although I’ve gotten interviews for some in the past, I don’t quite make the final cut. And my company is constantly going through changes so it’s possible opportunities will open up, though the people above me seem pretty well entrenched so it’s unlikely to be a straight path forward.

    I guess I’m wondering whether there’s another “outside-the-box” way to think about my career path that I’m not seeing. (Sorry for the novel.)

  70. FD*

    At my current workplace, you get no vacation the first year, one week the second, two weeks the third, etc. This seems to be fairly common in my industry (hospitality at the management level).

    In professional workplaces, is it kosher to ask to take some unpaid time off, in cases where you don’t have much paid vacation time, or does this depend heavily on the culture?

    1. FD*

      Clarification, I’ve got one year under my belt, but have used up my paid vacation earlier in the year.

    2. Formerly The Office Admin, Now Full Time Job Huntress*

      I used to take a lot of unpaid time off at Old Job. Our PTO accrual was something like 6 or 7 days per year(this includes holidays, sick and vacation) for the first 4 years.
      So generally I took all holidays unpaid and took 1 week of vacation in the summer(using about 24 hours of PTO time) and one week of vacation in winter(using about 20 hours of PTO time)
      And then if I ever wanted to take a day off during the year, like a long weekend or something, I took that as unpaid.
      I know at some companies, you HAVE to be paid 40 hours per week, from some combo of work and/or PTO, but I think that’s sort of ridiculous, especially if the company has less than generous time off accruals

      1. FD*

        No requirement that you have to be paid 40 hours here per se. It’s more that I’m not sure what the norms would be.

    3. Amber Rose*

      Depends on your boss I’d think. We have the same arrangement so I asked my boss about unpaid time. He said he’d prefer I not because it sets a bad precedence, but it wasn’t like he was mad about me asking.

      Here in Canada we also have the option of working weekends and banking time, with permission, and I know some guys do that. Or they borrow against next year’s time off. I think there are some options you can consider talking to your boss about. Though banking time appears to be illegal in the US.

    4. Nobody*

      It probably depends on the culture, and it might also depend on the reason. At my company, we accrue 2 hours of vacation time and 2 hours of sick time per week, so you have to work there a month before you get a whole vacation day or sick day. Our management would definitely not allow anyone to take, say, an unpaid week off to go on vacation, but they do allow people to take unpaid leave for things like closing on a house, going to a doctor’s appointment, or staying home when you’re too sick to go to work.

  71. Daphne*

    I have an interview for a position I interviewed for two years ago. Sale position, same people will interview me. They also remember me. I am hoping you have any tips.

    1. CrazyCatLady*

      Did they contact you on their own or did you apply for the position again? Either way, a lot can happen in two years. I’d focus on new accomplishments that have come up since last time.

  72. Desperately Need music*

    So, I started a new job recently as a programmer for a consulting company, and for the most part, things are going well. There’s just one woman in my office who is not only extremely loud and talkative, but she combines it with extremely high pitched squeals and giggles.

    I wear earbuds with music playing that can block out most normal conversational noise, except for her. Her squeals and screams cut right through all my music, and it’s driving me insane. She’s a client, so saying anything to her will just get me in trouble.

    Does anyone have recommendations for music that is good at blocking out higher frequency noises? My usual jazz and broadway selections aren’t cutting it for this office!

    1. MaryMary*

      Have you tried white noise? I actually think pink noise blocks out voices better. There’s also brown noise (colors =different frequencies).

  73. TotesMaGoats*

    Update on NewJob. Verdict is still out on whether or not this was a good move but at least I’m happy in my job. That counts for so much. And everyone is very nice and helpful. The biggest struggle is with change. They need so much! And they know they need it, say they need but aren’t really all that interested in doing it. So it’s a slow and steady race thing which drives me crazy. Plus the previous person in the role, who was pretty well liked, did things the most backassward ways. Seriously, nothing that fits with admissions/recruitment best practices. And they wonder why numbers are so low. Any success was a complete fluke. So, it’s frustrating to be like “no, this isn’t really how you should be doing this?” about EVERYTHING.

    But again, happy, respected and agency to make change albeit really slowly.

  74. Ann Furthermore*

    The bad news: after taking this project live a few weeks ago, and dragging the users kicking and screaming across the finish line, it is now abundantly clear to everyone (not just my co-workers and me) that the users have not paid any attention to anything we did or tested during the 15 months that we worked on this implementation. This included many testing events, conference calls, virtual working sessions, and site visits.

    The good news: my boss was on one of these calls with me yesterday, and I am now confident that she really gets what’s been going on, and why everyone on our team is at their wit’s end and teetering on the edge. After the meeting was over, I went over to talk to her, and she said, “Wow….they really have not been paying attention at all, have they?”

    What’s really frustrating, though, is that the senior person on the user side has been writing nasty emails and leaving snotty voice mail messages for everyone under the sun, talking about the “lack of support” his team has gotten since the cutover. But he won’t provide any specifics. And what it comes down to is that he, and therefore the rest of his team, think that because we’re not onsite we’re not providing support. Never mind the fact that one person on our team was vacationing in India, and ended up working in the office there to resolve issues overnight. Never mind the fact that we’ve all been working on this, exclusively, for weeks, talking them through things on the phone, responding to emails immediately, and all the rest of it. Because we’re not there, in person, holding their hands for every single keystroke and mouse click, we’re not providing support. I even dropped everything last week to take a last minute trip to Pittsburgh to spend 2 days with the guy in the office there, doing one-on-one training.

    I am not one to complain about travelling for work, because it’s just a necessary part of the type of work I do. But this project has just been exhausting and draining, with travel every few weeks. I finally put my foot down with my boss and the PM last week and said that I don’t mind travelling when it provides value, but that it’s getting out of hand. I’ve had to reschedule dentist appointments, doctor appointments, hair appointments, mani/pedi’s, I’ve missed a lot of sports stuff for my daughter, and I’ve had to miss social things with friends and family. And yes, I realize that it’s all personal, but we all have lives to live outside of work. Just because the 2 lead people on their side are single, don’t have kids, it isn’t reasonable or fair for them to have that expectation of us and then upset when we “only” work 8-5. I work late nights and weekends when it’s necessary, but it’s not a way of life for me, and I’m not going to feel bad about that. Is my daughter’s t-ball game more important than the labor interface program? It is to her. Fortunately my boss and PM are in agreement with me.

    Ugh. Sorry. Just had to vent.

    2. Isben Takes Tea*

      Wow, that sucks. Good for you for putting your got down! It’s completely reasonable. Good luck!

  75. Just Another Techie*

    My office’s annual Summer Outing is tomorrow. I RSVP’d yes and bought tickets for myself and my spouse (nominal fee for non-employee guests; the office is subsidizing most of the cost) but now that it’s the day before, I’m not feeling it. This year it’s going to be at an amusement park, a two hour drive away. I’m already exhausted by my daily commute and don’t want to spend the extra four hours driving, and I’m not super enthusiastic about carnival rides. Also Spouse is part of a performing art group that has an event tomorrow night as part of a big city-wide festival; he’s not performing or officially on the roster, but he wants to go support his group and also be on hand in case they need extra help during setup or breakdown. We could in theory go to the outing and the art festival, but it would be stressful.

    Would I be a terrible person to bail on Summer Outing at the last minute? My office has about 500 people and typically between 150-200 show up for the outing.

    1. Sadsack*

      Do you actually expect anyone to say that, yes, you are a terrible person if you don’t go? Don’t go! Try again next year.

      1. Not So Sunny*

        Two hours away from the general location of the office? That’s crazy and so not worth it.

      2. Just Another Techie*

        Well, I feel guilty about it, because that’s two admissions to the amusement park that the company paid for that would “go to waste.”

        1. Juli G.*

          Is there an admin that you can let know that “something came up”? Company events typically consist of a couple people showing up that “forgot” to RSVP so they may be able to use them still.

    2. Hlyssande*

      If anyone asks, you can just tell them that something came up. Because that’s true. Your partner has that thing and you just don’t want to go. That’s something. :)

    3. Ad Astra*

      You paid the fee, however nominal, and now you’re going to be out that money because you chose not to go. Imo, that’s all the penance necessary in this situation. You’re not taking up anyone else’s spot on this trip, are you? It doesn’t sound that way. If someone asks why you weren’t there, you can say you weren’t feeling well or the dog had a seizure or your car broke down. You could also just say you weren’t feeling it, but I think a white lie is fine if it makes you feel better.

  76. Secret Poster*

    I was supposed to have an office but someone in a similar line of work but not the same department also wanted an office and I was asked to give it to her (while she’s not my superior, she is higher on the ladder). Since she knew she displaced me, she very freely shared the office with me as I often need a place for confidential conversations. There is also equipment in that office that belongs to my department that I occasionally need.

    That person has moved on and her replacement has not made any offers to share his office. He even locks it each time he leaves so the equipment is completely off limits (and by every time, I mean coffee machine, bathroom, etc.)

    While it’s not easy, I can find other meeting space because locking your office is very out of sync with office norms. In fact, there are a couple people 3 levels above me that have told me their office is fair game whenever they’re away – it’s inconvenient but workable. The equipment is much more difficult to replicate.

    Should I give the new guy feedback on this? He’s new to the job but not the company so it’s strange he doesn’t know the office norms. By locking his door whenever he leaves, he’s giving an impression he’s not at work very often (I’ve overheard these remarks from others). I think he’s locking it because he feels pretty important having an office as they’re rare here – I can’t think of any other logical reason to do so unless maybe he’s had things stolen in the past.

    1. HeyNonnyNonny*

      I think if his locking the door makes communal things like bathroom and coffee inaccessible, you could definitely say something about that. Like ‘Hey, Preston, when you lock your door, the rest of us can’t use the office coffeemaker/etc. Would you mind leaving it unlocked while you’re away, or could you give a key copy to someone so that we can continue to use the office equipment?’

      1. Anie*

        I took this to mean when he went to the bathroom or the coffee maker, OP couldn’t get to the other equipment.

        1. HeyNonnyNonny*

          Oh, yeah, that’s probably what it is…for some reason “bathroom” was filed under “equipment” in my brain. Well, if there’s any equipment that’s being locked away, something should be said!

      2. Sadsack*

        Yeah, if he doesn’t go for this, then I guess you have to have the equipment moved. I’d bring it up to your manager at that point.

      3. Secret Poster*

        So the other rub is I do have a key to the office (the key works for about 5 different offices/closets that I must access) so I CAN go in, I just feel very uncomfortable doing that.

      4. Secret Poster*

        You know, as I think about it, he may not realize that equipment isn’t *his*. I overheard him mentioning to someone “It’s awesome. I have my own personal [equipment].”

        It was actually paid for by my department and we just didn’t move it when I gave up the office because it was easier than relocating it. Maybe I need to start by breaking the news to him.

        1. Isben Takes Tea*

          Definitely do this! You could even bring it up with your manager if it’s better for her to talk with his manager.

        2. Lllll*

          Something like, “Preston, I don’t know if you’re aware, but my department needs to access [the equipment] in your office space regularly. Is there a reason we need to keep the door locked when you step away during normal business hours, or are you okay with me leaving it unlocked?” Sounds like no one told him and he’s being a bit oblivious! I would also tell him that formerPreston let you use the office when you needed to have confidential conversations, is that something that he thinks will work for him? I would assume your old arrangement is still in place until you are told otherwise. Offices belong to positions, not people, and your position has a claim to part of the office.

    2. Secret Poster*

      My last sentence is harsher than I meant because he seems like a nice guy. My reasoning is based on the fact that he came from working in a very open concept environment that he really enjoyed.

    3. T3k*

      I was going to say, he sounds like how I was in college. Even if I went down the hall to the common bathrooms, I always locked my dorm door (drove one year’s roommate nuts over it). If he does have stuff in his office that he doesn’t want stolen or seen by prying eyes, perhaps suggest he get a lockable cabinet or drawer. If he’s worried about someone going through his computer, suggest locking it (though this may not be practical, depending on your company).

  77. Kyrielle*

    Ugh. I’ve been at my new job only since the end of May, just shy of two months right now, and I’m loving it. But…even though it’s the first three months, I got four days off in August (long weekends, for trips to visit family halfway across the US from where we are) scheduled…and then this week I got sick one day and had to work from home, and now I’m home with a sick kid. Trying to work, but I suspect I’ll end up having to mark it as PTO. We get “infinite” PTO with manager’s approval, and my manager is a nice guy, but I don’t like the impression I think this might make. :(

    My husband and I had pre-agreed that any sick kids would be his if possible during my first three months especially, but blast it, this week they have clients in his office explicitly to meet with him and work on stuff; it’s really not possible. :(

    1. Kyrielle*

      Yeah, it’s a PTO day. I’d love to work, but he now has a formal diagnosis of strep, which explains why the super-miserable, super-needy kiddo. Poor guy.

      I’ll just have to rock my job next week.

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I wouldn’t sweat it. People get sick, kids get sick, stuff happens… In my third month at work, a relative died and I had to take a day to go to her funeral. Nobody blinked.

      I hope the kiddo feels better!

      1. Kyrielle*

        Thank you! Only positive thing about strep, at least it’s treatable. Worse in some ways than a mild virus, but better in that you can do something about it. By tomorrow he should be heading toward better, and luckily he likes the antibiotic fine, so it’s not like having to get it in him for ten days will be a battle. Whew. :)

    3. NicoleK*

      I wish my new coworker was as conscientious as you. She’s been there two months and has taken more time off than I have.

  78. LSCO*

    How close is too close for a work friendship?

    I started a new job about 4 months ago, and have developed a close friendship with a co-worker who I’ll call Anne.

    We both have the same role, which we both started at the same time (albeit Anne was promoted within the team, I was an external hire). When I started, we quickly bonded as we are both the same age (within a couple of months), we are both childless, living with long-term partners, we have similar interests and hobbies.. we even wear similar styles of eye glasses.

    Over the 4 months we’ve worked together, Anne & I have grown very close. We socialise once or twice a week outside work, we’ve met each other’s partners, had meals out together, and recently started working out in the mornings together. Our co-workers have started calling us “work spouses” and even our boss has commented we are thick as thieves together.

    From my personal POV this is great – I don’t have a great deal of friends as it is, and I really do enjoy Anne’s company, both in-work and out, and I’m fairly sure Anne feels the same.

    However, there has been a niggle in the back of my mind recently – is this too close for a work friendship?

    Neither of us are managing the other (although we have both recognised the possibility of this happening in the future). Our boss hasn’t mentioned any problems she has with our friendship. We’re a small team of 4 underneath our boss, but both Anne & I have recognised this and make attempts to not exclude our co-workers. We try not to share inside jokes, or have private/confidential conversations in work time (although we are both chatty and frequently talk as we work) – in short, we do everything we can think of to minimise the obviousness of our close friendship to co-workers.

    My gut instinct is telling me that it’s the behaviours which matter (i.e. we don’t exclude other team members from discussions, or show favouritism in the office) and provided we keep acting professionally within the office then the nature of our friendship shouldn’t matter. But my head is telling me we should maybe cool off the friendship for the sake of our professional lives.. which is right? Is there a way to navigate this without losing either a good friend or a good job?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      This sounds quite natural, actually. I don’t see a problem here. Many of my close friends are former co-workers. It makes sense, because that’s where you meet new people and those are the people you spend the most time with. I tend to wait until after I leave a place to get closer, but there’s nothing wrong with you making friends before leaving.

    2. some1*

      You sound like a really self-aware person to consider this, and it sounds like you’re doing everything right so far. Also, I’m jealous! I miss having women friends at work my age.

    3. Ad Astra*

      This seems fine to me, especially if you’re careful about not being appearing cliquey to your other colleagues. You may need to keep things professional at work (which it sounds like you’re doing now) and save all the fun “friend” things for after hours, similar to the way married people act when they work with their spouse.

      BUT this could become a problem if one of you ends up managing the other. If your career paths and the company’s situation indicate that’s likely to happen soonish, you might want to dial back the friendship.

    4. SystemsLady*

      Nope :). Totally normal. One of my best friends is a coworker. As long as you’re professional at work, don’t have a supervisory relationship at work, and don’t seem cliquey/preferential, there’s nothing wrong with it.

      My friendship is opposite gender as well – I feel like you’re subtly hinting that’s the case/a concern here, but correct me if I’m wrong! I used to be self-concious about that as well, particularly since he is single and I am married, but after over a year it just hasn’t proven to be a problem. And that’s with everybody acknowledging how close we are!

      I think, as long as you’re not letting your friendship affect your work, good managers (and coworkers) will generally be more happy you’re keeping each other happy and productive at work than they will be concerned that anything else. And that goes for all friendships.

  79. A Definite Beta Guy*

    670 paper invoices to correct, 670 paper invoices
    You white out the amount billed, put in the correct number
    669 paper invoices to correct

    :( A/R is no fun

    1. Nanc*

      Wait, how did you get here from the 1950s? Wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff?

      I’m so sorry you’re going through this!

      1. A Definite Beta Guy*

        No one to pass it to! We have the “My coworker hasn’t taken a vacation in 2 years and works 50 hours a week and he’s still behind” kind of office.

  80. T3k*

    Question:

    What do you do to try and minimize looking like a job hopper? I was laid off from my first job after 7 months, and now where I am, after 3 months I’m bored out of mind and trying to find a more challenging environment/better pay, but I’m afraid it’s going to look like I’m job hopping. How would any of you explain this if an interviewer mentions the short time I’ve been at my current job?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I don’t think there’s much you can do to avoid looking like a job-hopper in your situation. Your first job was a short stint and now your second job would be even shorter? I think you really have only two options:

      1. Stick it out at your less-challenging, lower-paying job for at least two years (preferably three) and then not look like a job-hopper.

      2. Just look like a job-hopper. It will hurt your search, for sure, but if you’re persistent in your situation, it may pan out.

      1. T3k*

        Unfortunately, option 1 isn’t really an option. I’m waaaaay underpaid (average salary for my field/experience is double what I make now) and I’ll need to pay for my own healthcare this coming year on a budget where every dollar is already earmarked. Oh, and I don’t get any benefits where I am. I guess a better question would be if I should be honest to an interviewer that part of the reason I’m looking is for not only a challenging environment, but also looking for a livable salary,

        1. Anonymous Educator*

          I don’t think it’ll make a difference what you tell your interviewer. The job-hopper stigma (rightly or wrongly) is solely attached to the actual hopping and not the reasons. Hiring managers generally don’t care if you’re hopping because you’re an inept employee who got fired or because you’re an amazing employee who’s always dissatisfied and wants something new or because you’re married to someone in the military and you have to move around all the time. The hiring manager just sees the end effect: “This is someone who is probably not going to stick around with us very long, which means we’ll waste time training her, and then we’ll have to look for someone else again soon anyway.”

          But, as I mentioned before, it doesn’t mean you will be unable to find a job. It just means it will be that much more difficult, because there will be other candidates who are as compelling as you are skills-wise (or personality-wise or work ethic–wise) but who don’t present as job-hoppers.

          1. T3k*

            Ah, I see. I guess my best bet then is to focus on assuring them I will stick around (assuming the salary is acceptable of course). And yeah, this will probably be difficult, but I don’t have much of a choice otherwise. Thanks for the insight.

    2. Treena*

      Look for a new job right now and leave off your current position. It won’t be that big of a gap to explain and if you land yourself a job soon, it’ll be fine. Worst-case scenario I think it would be fine to leave after a year. I think the 7 months can be explained in a cover letter as long as the current stay is 1 year.

  81. Special Snowflake*

    I am struggling with phrasing this question to not sound like a special snowflake who thinks what follows is “not my job” etc. and it is a question I am genuinely curious about so please don’t judge me to harshly!
    I’m an admin for a relatively small office and admin only amounts to about 1/3 of my role. Frequently I have the people who are senior to me ask me to do things like make a label to stick on a file or a page of labels for them to use later. One thing I’ve noticed is that often these requests are things that would really truly take less time for them to do themselves when compared with the time of emailing me and asking me to do it. And that’s before however long it takes for me to see it, do the task and get it back to them.
    For people who are more senior in offices is this typical? I don’t object to doing any of these tasks but it seems like it would be one of the few things admin-wise that is more effective for someone to do themselves as opposed to filing, some expense reconciliation etc .

    1. Formerly The Office Admin, Now Full Time Job Huntress*

      I used to get a lot of random requests, anything from, can you order this part for my classic car from this website? To addressing envelopes with labels. Sometimes it’s more of a: they don’t know how to create the labels/where to find blank labels/too busy and/or special themselves to do it.
      Most of the time, I’m confident they could have figured it out if I hadn’t been in the office, or gotten their wife to order their classic car part, but I’m there, it’s generally in my job description to support my superiors in anyway I can to streamline their day so I just did whatever silly requests they had, haha.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        I don’t mind making labels for someone, but I wouldn’t want to order car parts for them. Unless I’m working for a Hollywood star and managing their entire life or I’m getting paid like (or am) Pepper Potts, I don’t want to do your personal bullshit. Lucky for me, I’ve only had one boss who asked me to do stuff like that and she at least always asked if I had time.

    2. Sadsack*

      Having been an admin, I think that what you describe pretty much qualify as admin duties. It may take only a couple of minutes for you to create the label and print it out or type the label, however you do it, but that’s two minutes that someone senior may want to spend doing the higher level work she needs to be doing. Maybe her asking you depends on her other workload at the time.

      1. nona*

        +1

        And you might think they know how to do these things themselves, but surprisingly, nope.

      2. GOG11*

        And, really, for that senior person, it might take 10 minutes rather than two if they’re not familiar with the software, the copier, etc.

        1. the gold digger*

          Yeah, it would take me a good hour to make labels. It would go like this:

          1. Oh crap. I need to print labels
          2. Go to supply cabinet to see if there are labels.
          3. Ask D, the admin, where the labels are kept. (And in real life, this is where the story would end, because my team has an amazing admin and she would say, “I will make the label for you.”)
          4. Find the labels.
          5. Find online instructions about how to configure the darn page to print the label
          6. Figure out which printer I needed to use
          7. Am I mapped to that printer?
          8. Go to printer and insert label paper
          9. RUN back to my desk and hit “print,” crossing my fingers that there have been no other print jobs sent in the interim
          10. Discover some stupid mistake that I had made to prevent the label from printing properly and do it all again
          11. Hand write the darn thing

    3. T3k*

      This is pretty common in small offices. Scratch that, this is pretty common in large ones as well. One relative of mine works for a large dept. and the head honcho, rather than take the minute it takes to load paper in the copier, will go around trying to find someone else to do it. The paper is right there beside the machine too.

      1. Camellia*

        Why do we seem to assume that everyone knows how to do certain things? I can make a computer jump through hoops like nobodies’ business, but I can’t make another pot of coffee because I don’t drink coffee and don’t know how to set up the commercial coffee maker in the office. I couldn’t put paper in the copy machine because I wasn’t able to figure out how to open the darn drawer to put in the paper! I was pressing and pulling on everything with an outline that made it look like it might be a drawer but no, nothing opened! Turns out you have to navigate to a particular screen on its display and press an icon to get it to open.

        1. T3k*

          I forgot to add, he knows how to do it. He’ll go around to find someone to do it, then walk with them back to the copier and actually watch them put the paper in, countless times.

    4. GOG11*

      I struggle with this, too. There are quite a few things that individuals ask for that don’t serve the department as a whole and that really could be done by them more quickly than by having me do it. But I’ve learned that they often don’t know how to do X, and they really don’t want to take the time or effort to learn.

      With that in mind, it really isn’t more efficient for them to do it if they don’t know how to do it, and if they’re more senior to you and you’re there or provide them with assistance with administrative tasks, it’s up to them if they want to shift those tasks to you.

      If there are enough of those types of tasks that you’re unable to get your more core duties accomplished, talk to whomever your manager is about what your priorities should be, especially if the problem stems from additional non-admin projects being added to your plate. I got a couple of lower-level tasks shifted off my plate when I took on other projects because the other projects were more important to my bosses.

    5. YandO*

      This is the reason I hated being an admin.

      So I’ve got nothing for you but solidarity in spirit

    6. Kelly L.*

      Sympathy. I once was an admin for someone who would walk up a flight of stairs to ask me to call someone, and then stand there and dictate the whole call, before she would actually call them herself. She stayed for the whole call and said all the words of the call, so it’s not like she was saving herself any time or effort, and actually added some by going out of her way.

    7. some1*

      Another admin and I totally hear you and get where you are coming from. I’ve been this way about changing the toner or fixing a jam in the copier. As other commenters mentioned, it is often because the people don’t know how to do it or want to learn. I don’t think it’s an unreasonable request even if it’s faster for them to do it themselves. I’ve learned to save my battles for the truly outlandish requests. In admin support, accommodation can be just as if not more important than knowledge and skills. You can be taught how to pull a report or order the office supplies, but if you aren’t flexible about picking up support tasks it’s not going to be an enjoyable job for you.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        I’ve been this way about changing the toner or fixing a jam in the copier.

        This actually WAS my job at Exjob–I preferred doing it myself to having someone else try to change it and mess it up completely.

    8. Special Snowflake*

      Yeah- I know there’s nothing to be done and for the most part a little micro-break from my actual projects is nice but I’ve always been confused by it.
      The point about not knowing how to do something is well taken. I tend to assume that since computers have been part of work for 18-20 years everyone knows how to do things associated with them as fast as I do.

    9. Natalie*

      So I’m coming at it from the other end, in that I’m *finally* learning that it would be better if I had our admin contact someone to update our address, rather than me doing it. Her job is to do a million little tiny tasks, and that’s one of them.

      When I was the admin I used to think the same thing, “you could have done this in the time it took you to ask me to”. But I’m noticing that, firstly, that isn’t actually true (emailing the admin takes 5 seconds, if that). And secondly and more importantly, my job now requires a lot more sustained focus and having to switch gears and work on a different task is more disruptive than just the time it takes. YMMV, but for me sending a quick email doesn’t shift my gears in the same way that actually making the label or whatever does.

      And finally, it might actually take them longer to do these tasks then you, because they don’t do them very often. I used to be the admin in this office, but everything has changed since then. If I was going to make a label, it would take me a bit to find both the label template and the box of labels, since we’ve moved things around a lot over the years. And I’d probably forget how to orient the labels in the printer correctly since I haven’t done that in a while, so I’d have to do it twice.

    10. fposte*

      Yes, it’s absolutely typical, and I’m with Natalie–it is amazing the amount of time and mental real estate it frees up for me to have other people handle this kind of stuff. And that’s why those people are there–if I could do my job on top of all the admin stuff, I wouldn’t have admins. (Also keep in mind that if they do it, it probably would cost the company several times more than it does when you do it.)

      So realize that this is a vital part of your significance to the organization and embrace it.

    11. Clever Name*

      I hope this doesn’t come off as crass; if it does, I apologize. I’m a consultant, and for us, time is money. We charge by the hour, and there are different charging categories. I’m a mid-level scientist, and we charge clients approx $100/hr for my time. We charge clients about $35/hr for admin staff time. So, when one looks at it through this lens, it makes way more sense for an admin to make labels than senior staff to make labels. Yes, they could do it themselves, but it’s just not a good use of the company’s money.

  82. Pockets*

    How do you not feel guilty about leaving your (awesome) boss for an internal transfer? I love working with my team and my boss is amazing, but the actual work itself isn’t right for me at all. I was offered an opportunity in a different department that is right up my alley and would really let me shine. My current supervisor has OKed the transfer, but I can’t help feeling bad, because he has been so great.

    1. PEBCAK*

      A truly awesome boss will understand what’s best for your career, as well as how it can be valuable to him to have positive relationships with other departments. Do what you can to make the transition as smooth as possible, and don’t look back.

      1. Pockets*

        Thanks, PEBCAK! I needed to hear that and you’re right. I need to focus on my career goals and what will ultimately get me ahead.

  83. Big10Professor*

    We’re hiring for a staff position in my department, and a candidate sent me a thank-you note addressed to “Ms. Stark” instead of “Arya” or “Dr. Stark.” I’m super-annoyed with this, because I’m a young woman in the sciences and sick of this shit, but I can’t decide if I’m just annoyed, or if it actually shows that the candidate didn’t do their research/is unfamiliar with the norms of academia/isn’t going to show faculty the deference they expect. It’s a minor thing in the grand scheme of things, but there’s a definite pecking order in academia, and they will have trouble working with the faculty if they don’t get that.

    (And yes, I know the pecking order is dumb, but that doesn’t change the fact that it exists)

    1. Chrissi*

      I don’t really see how “Arya” is any better than “Ms. Stark”. It seems to me you wanted them to acknowledge that you are “Dr. Stark”.

      I don’t know how old or experienced the candidate was, so this may or may not apply, but when I was younger, and even now, since I don’t work in academia, I never could seem to figure out who was Dr., who was Professor, and who wanted to go by their first name. Is this an absolute deal-breaker? Is it absolutely necessary they have this skill prior to getting the job? All else being equal, I’d assume they can pick it up once they are hired – specifically, they can pick it up if someone explains it to them in a straight-forward manner and also explains how important it is to “show faculty the deference they expect”.

      1. Big10Professor*

        I introduced myself as Arya Stark. If they used my first name, that would be fine. By calling me “Ms.,” they are specifically making the assumption that I am NOT a doctor, which is different from just being informal.

        1. Big10Professor*

          Which rubs me the wrong way for personal reasons, but ALSO says that they did not research who they’d be interviewing with.

          And I guess I’m questioning the first part of my sentence, too…it’s not really a personal issue to want women to be shown the same respect as men in the workplace.

          So I think it comes down to, “did this person rush to send out thank you notes and make a tiny error, or does this person have a hard time overcoming personal biases in their professional dealings?”

          1. Ad Astra*

            I think researching who you’re going to interview with is a great tip for job seekers, but I don’t see the failure to research your interviewers ahead of time, and remember which of them are doctors and which aren’t, as a shortcoming. That expectation comes off as a little too “Don’t you even know who I am?” to me, which sort of falls in line with some of the negative experiences I’ve had with academics.

            1. Big10Professor*

              This is part of the reason I’m asking this here…I would assume that someone on a faculty panel would be a doctor unless told otherwise, but I am also an academic.

          2. Chrissi*

            I agree that’s what it comes down to, but unless you have other information, i.e. how they addressed the male professors, you truly have no idea which one it is. So, if I were in the same shoes, I’d either try and get more information or give them the benefit of the doubt.

            1. Big10Professor*

              And that’s the interesting thing about hiring, isn’t it? I have limited information on this person, and I have limited information on the other candidates, and while this isn’t a dealbreaker by any means, it is indeed part of the impression they made.

              1. Chrissi*

                Was there any other part of the interview that made an impression that would make you believe this person is sexist or behind the times or even just a bit clueless? If this is the only data point you have, I’d be careful of trying to interpret it. If you have other data points to back up this impression, then it’s up to you.

                Honestly, I’d probably google them myself because my curiosity would be killing me. I’m not necessarily endorsing that, btw.

        2. Chrissi*

          I see – good point. I can understand being annoyed by this if you encounter it a lot. I agree very much w/ Victoria NonProfit (USA)’s response, but I also agree w/ you that I would be extremely curious to know how they addressed the male interviewers as well.

        3. The IT Manager*

          I get you. “Arya” is being informal. “Ms. Stark” assumes that Ms. is your correct title meaning they don’t think you have a PhD. And I do not work in academia, but I would think someone writing to an academic should be aware enough about this to do enough research it to get it right.

    2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      I would try to let this go, mostly because I can imagine myself making this mistake. I’m in my mid-30s, am familiar with (some of) the norms of academia, and am a vocal feminist who works hard to not let societal conditioning affect how to react to and treat women… but I’m completely sure that I’ve accidentally written “Ms. Cregg” or “Mr. Lyman” instead of “Dr. Cregg” or “Dr. Lyman.” I’m not an academic, and I live in a world where Ms./Mr. are standard, and sometimes autopilot does us wrong.

      1. Big10Professor*

        I’m actually really curious how they addressed my male colleagues who were in the interview.

        1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

          Yeah, if that were different all of my generous reactions would go out the window.

      2. Jennifer*

        I would also let this go.
        If I have to contact a professor I call them all “Professor Bigshot” (I don’t necessarily know or need to know all of their degrees for when I have to nitpick a stupid thing they left off a form) but frankly, some people nitpick these things hard and it’s hard to know that as a newbie applying. “Ms. Stark” isn’t being deliberately disrespectful, really. I think you’re just kind of applying your being pissed off at other sexist things into this situation, really.

        Also, my friend “Dr. Happily Not A Bigshot” never, ever goes by Dr., and not everyone does it just because they have one, and someone who doesn’t know the people very well or at all won’t know who uses what. What Chrissi said: that’s something that can be easily learned once someone points it out to her.

        But it sounds like you’re prejudiced against this one already, so too late now, I guess.

    3. Ad Astra*

      I see where you’re coming from, but I think you should let this one go.

      If the candidate had addressed you as “Ms. Stark” and a male hiring manager as “Dr. Snow,” I might be more convinced that this is a problematic bias and not just an oversight. Or if this person continued using “Ms. Stark” after repeated correction, it would be a problem.

      It sounds like either the candidate didn’t research your credentials, or the candidate researched your credentials but didn’t quite make the mental jump from “Arya Stark has a PhD” to “I should call her Dr. Stark.” Both of these are, imo, minor oversights that don’t tell you anything about the candidate’s skills or work habits. It’s nothing you can’t fix with a brief conversation on the candidate’s first day at the office.

      1. K*

        “Arya Stark has a PhD” to “I should call her Dr. Stark” is half a step, not a jump. In academia must upper-level people have a PhD, so the interviewee should have at the very least just assumed the person they were addressing has a PhD and called her Dr.. It’s always safer to assume someone is a Dr. when they really are a Ms. than to assume someone is a Ms. when they really are a Dr.

        I don’t think I’d discount the candidate over this, but I understand the annoyance. Of course, I’ve spent the last three years being referred to as “bachelor’s-level” when I have a master’s.

        1. QualityControlFreak*

          Isn’t Dr. a subset of both Ms. and Mr.? (With apologies to otherwise gendered people for whom we don’t have a generic honorific?). Most of us start out as a Mr. or Ms.; a smaller percentage of us go on to earn the title of Dr. I don’t see any intentional disrespect, but I’m not in academia.

          1. The IT Manager*

            I think it is more like once you become a Doctor you are no longer addressed as Mr or Ms. Doctor is the higher title and should always be used.

            * Not always true, but in the academic environment I would assumed PhD’s get addressed as Doctor.

            1. fposte*

              It’s not that simple, though it’s getting that way. At the more prestigious older and northern universities, “Doctor” was a tawdry trade title, and “Mr.” was more distinguished; PhDs who used “Dr.” were akin to people who open a conversation at a party with you by telling you how much they make.

              For reasons I don’t entirely understand, “Dr.” gradually became considered the more prestigious title at a lot of places. It’s not logical–lawyers have “doctor” in their degree too, as I’ve noted here before, and nobody feels bad that the poor lawyers are being called “Mr.” and “Ms.”–but it is definitely safer now to call somebody in academics “Dr.,” because the people who follow the older tradition are almost certainly aware of the new one, while the people who follow the new tradition quite likely aren’t aware of the older one.

              1. QualityControlFreak*

                And this makes me think of my cousin, who is a lawyer and has also been a professor of law and ethics. Thank goodness I can just call him “Cuz.”

    4. MsM*

      I think it definitely demonstrates a lack of familiarity with the norms of academia, but unless you need someone who doesn’t need to be brought up to speed, I don’t think that’s necessarily a fatal flaw. And I wouldn’t take it as a personal insult unless you observed other behavior to make you think this candidate is sexist, in which case this is just the tip of the iceberg. People outside academia just don’t think about this the same way that academics do. My first job involved working with a lot of professors, and I didn’t know that this was such a hot button issue until I got chewed out by one of them for unwittingly starting my email with “Dear Mr. Horrible.” A gentle correction from my boss, and I never made that mistake again. (Although I did get some replies from students who hadn’t actually identified themselves as students, and were confused why I was defaulting to Dr.)

      1. Lillie Lane*

        +1. “People outside academia just don’t think about this the same way that academics do.”

        I’m a youngish (35) woman with a PhD who is sometimes mistaken for a college intern. Though I work for a private company now, I used to work at a Big 10 as well. Whenever I contact someone at a university, even if I think there’s only a 5% chance that they have a PhD, I still address them in communications as “Dr.” Better to be mistaken and be told “Oh, I’m actually ‘Ms.'” than the other way around.

        A couple months ago my coworker wrote up a contract with a researcher at the Big 10 where I used to work, and he mistakenly put my name in the signature line as “Mrs. Lillie Lane” (even though he knows I have a PhD). I ribbed him a little about it, but thought it was hilarious so I left it on there. Well, when I delivered the contract to the researcher and he saw the “Mrs.” on there, he scolded me and said I should have corrected it! I suppose he was right but it gave me a good chuckle.

    5. fposte*

      There’s no across-the-board norm in academia that requires her to call you Dr. Stark, though, so there are things about norms it sounds like you may not have encountered either. (To be fair, I doubt that she’s coming from the tradition where using “Dr.” is vulgar for PhDs, but there very much is that tradition.)

      I get why you’re miffed, and if you think you can’t forgive her for it, you should pass on her. But I don’t think it’s a sign of her overall cluelessness (or even necessarily of her unconscious sexism), and I think maybe you’re taking out your anger about a broader problem on her. I’ve had good candidates get my name wrong based on my misleading email, and it really doesn’t bug me that much.

      Ms. fposte, PhD

      1. Tau*

        (To be fair, I doubt that she’s coming from the tradition where using “Dr.” is vulgar for PhDs, but there very much is that tradition.)

        I wonder if my parents are from that tradition! I’m also a PhD but still going by Ms, in large part because I know my mother would never let me forget it if I called myself ‘Dr’.

        Only exception for people who try to tag me with ‘Miss’ or ‘Mrs’. Those can call me Dr Tau all day long. :)

      2. Big10Professor*

        Interesting that people replying to my comment assume the candidate is a woman.

        1. MsM*

          AAM defaults to “she” when gender isn’t specified. We’re just following the convention.

        2. fposte*

          And it’s kind of funny–I think you’re a regular enough reader of AAM to have noted that as a norm, and you haven’t. Maybe norms aren’t as obvious as we think :-).

    6. Cat*

      I wouldn’t hold it against, say, an admin. assistant or IT candidate. I might hold it against someone who had spent a lot of time in academia and who should have known. But I wouldn’t assume someone who had unrelated skills and experience that happened to be applying to a job in academia would be familiar with all the norms.

  84. Laura*

    Anyone have advice on getting good/better at your work when it is monotonous? I was doing really well up until the part where my learning curve started to flatten out and now I am finding that after a few hours my eyes cross and my brain turns off.

    I am really concerned that I do well with this because I am basically still in a probation period. This is my first professional job at a place that is really hard to get a foot in the door with. And not only have I been told that if I stick around I will get opportunities to try a different role in the future, but I think I’m pregnant and also currently sole breadwinner for my family.

    So yeah I need to rock this.

    1. GOG11*

      In a previous open thread, someone suggested timing yourself and seeing if you can beat your time. So, if it took you an hour to generate report X with no errors, see if you can accomplish the same end product in 55 minutes. At some point, you’ll get about as fast as you can, but you’ll create a challenge for yourself in the meantime. Don’t go so fast that you sacrifice accuracy/quality, though.

      Finding alternative ways to accomplish things could also help. If you know of some inefficiency or you know that a certain process is missing something, try to come up with a way to make it better.

      1. Dynamic Beige*

        Or, turn it into a “how many can I do in X amount of time?” depending on the kind of tasks you do. I do that sometimes “how quickly can I crop all these photos?” Look at the time and go. If you do a variety of tasks, you might try grouping them so that you spend A time doing TaskX, B doing TaskY, C doing TaskZ. It’s really going to depend on what you do.

        Many people seem to swear by Pomodoro — you set a time period of say 25 minutes to work on a certain task, then you get 5 minutes’ break. Repeat. Whether that break is checking e-mail, reviewing what you just did, getting a glass of water, going to the bathroom, depends on what you need. http://pomodorotechnique.com/

    2. YandO*

      Split it up into chunks
      Give yourself fake deadlines for each chunk of work
      Insert rewards for completing things on time of your own deadline
      Listen to music/podcasts if you can

    3. Elizabeth West*

      If you’ve gotten the routine down pat, you could try re-ordering some of your tasks, if that is possible with the work you do. I find that when I get into a routine of “Do X first, then M, then H,” it gets old. If the tasks aren’t related or don’t have to be done in a certain order, you can mix it up. For example, I can change it so I do M first, then H, then X. It forces me to pay more attention to them because they’re in unexpected places at unexpected times. Since my work doesn’t vary much from month to month, I sometimes zone out, and this kind of helps me a little.

  85. afiendishthingy*

    Job applicant of the week: resume contained list of all the machine guns applicant is certified to use. He was applying to work with children with special needs. It’s not the fact that he has these certifications that bothers me but listing them when applying to a job that emphatically does NOT involve use of weapons? Probably not going to give him the edge over other candidates that he might have hoped for.

    Weirdest skills you’ve seen on resumes/applications?

      1. Arjay*

        Today, I would hire that person, no questions asked. I hope the skills involve stroking my hair, saying “there, there”, and telling me everything will be all right. :)

      2. Jennifer*

        I think that’s entirely reasonable these days. (Check out the “emotional labor” threads on Metafilter lately.) Especially if you’re supposed to be ahem, supporting a high level executive.

    2. GOG11*

      When I worked in a print center someone neglected to notice that their resume said something to the effect of “skilled in: your mom.” For whatever reason, stuff like that just jumps off the page at me (when it’s other people’s stuff, at least) and I pointed it out to him. Apparently he’d left his resume open and unattended and his roommate had some fun with it.

      Don’t leave your application materials unattended, kids. The hiring manager probably won’t be impressed by the results.

    4. afiendishthingy*

      I also had one that listed “household duties” including “managing personal finances” and “laundry.” Um, no.

      1. afiendishthingy*

        I think he’s a Criminal Justice major… so if I were hiring a SWAT team maybe I’d be interested??

    6. Jennifer*

      Hah, is he from Arizona? (I went on vacation there a few years back and was very, very informed on the gun culture.) Seriously, I don’t get why you’d mention that one unless you’re worried about some kind of crazy assault on the daycare center though. Is he military?

      2. AvonLady Barksdale*

        Ha! One of my boyfriend’s friends/colleagues is from Arizona and he has a gun locker with a collection of weapons. He’s a doctoral student in something completely unrelated to guns, yet… He’s always talking about those damn guns.

    8. Sara*

      What.

      I could put some really unusual skills on my resume or job applications (thanks, Peace Corps), but I don’t, because I am well-versed in professional norms as they apply in my current U.S. location.

  86. Sadsack*

    Having been an admin, I think that what you describe pretty much qualify as admin duties. It may take only a couple of minutes for you to create the label and print it out or type the label, however you do it, but that’s two minutes that someone senior may want to spend doing the higher level work she needs to be doing. Maybe her asking you depends on her other workload at the time.

  87. Xanthippe Lannister Voorhees*

    Many of the classes in my graduate program ask that we monitor different job blogs and the like (the activities that come with that are varied). So I come across quite a few jobs that I would love to apply for and am qualified for minus the advanced degree part. My current job is a position in a relevant field that I love but there is not much room for advancement. Following these job blogs is great in that it shows me there is demand in my field (library/archives, many people seem to be under the impression our jobs are drying up) but it also stresses me out because I see all these amazing jobs passing by and fear the choices won’t be as great when my time comes!

    1. Treena*

      I’ve been having the same feeling! I’m moving to Australia in September and I’ve known since February, so looking at these jobs posts are SO painful! But just remember it’s really helpful knowledge!

  88. Meg Murry*

    Ugh, I have a big report to write and I just don’t wanna do it. For some reason, today my ADHD meds are helping me hyperfocus on internetting, not on report writing.

    Ugh ugh ugh. Back to work with the internet off. I think I need a new Chrome homescreen that says “shouldn’t you be working!?” Is there such a thing?

    1. Ashley K.*

      Chrome extension Stay Focused.

      Basically, install a program that literally denies access to the things that are distracting you. It’s soooo frustrating when you first use it, but after a little time you get used to the reminders that you’re supposed to be doing something else right now!

      1. Natalie*

        Hmmm, that is relevant to my interests.

        Of course, my stupid work computer blocks all extensions, but this is more reason for me to put Chrome on a flash drive and run it off that.

    2. Chrissi*

      Just commit to opening up the document and writing the first paragraph. If, after that, you can’t keep going, that’s ok. Just start a little!

  89. Starfleet Project Manager*

    Does anyone have any experience negotiating for a computer in their initial hiring negotiations?

    I have been offered a job by my former boss (good relationship) at his new (tiny) company (yay!) I don’t know a whole lot about the workspace, because I am making these arrangements long distance, but I am afraid based on what I know that I will be asked to bring my own computer to work (at worst) or to use a laptop. My role is almost entirely on the computer and involves lots of spreadsheets, social media, photo editing, etc. so I would *strongly* prefer to have a desktop. Based on what I know about the office space, I don’t think it would be an issue to have one, but I’m not positive.

    Is this a reasonable thing to bring up when we discuss my role? Any advice on how to approach this? Based on my past experience doing the same type of work on a laptop/desktop, I definitely notice a different in eye-strain, headaches, and general ease of work.

    1. Ashley K.*

      If you do end up stuck with a laptop, could you ask for external monitors? I work on a laptop every day and I’ve hooked up 2 external monitors which really make the difference in working with big docs and multiple windows.

      I’d say that when you are discussing the role, you mention how much more effective it is for you to have more screen real estate so that you can keep on top of social media, photo editing, etc., efficiently.

      1. The IT Manager*

        That’s what I was going to suggest. I don’t think laptop versus desktop make much of a difference if you can hook up monitors (pretty inexpensive now-a-days) to your laptop.

        As for not having to provide your own, I have no suggestion. I am required to use government furnished equipment (laptop) and I am happy about that.

    2. Dynamic Beige*

      Is this is distance issue? I mean, with a laptop, the keyboard is connected to the monitor so you sit closer than you might with a desktop (also: RSI). You can always solve that by getting an external keyboard so you sit further away/putting the laptop on a shelf or stand to raise it higher.

      If it’s not enough monitors, a lot of laptops don’t have dual card support. But, I bought a gadget that plugs into a USB port and allows you to run an external monitor that way (you must install a driver, though). Link below.

  90. EchoSparks*

    Six or so months ago I was charged with creating a departmental newsletter with the goal of increasing organizational transparency. All department heads are supposed to submit something about their department for that month, but I’m usually begging for content and I’m pretty sure the staff barely looks at it anyway. I’ve thought about adding some sort of recurring feature to build interest:
    – employee of the month profile
    – an interview with a manager or team lead where people can submit questions beforehand
    – letter from a customer describing how our work has impacted them
    – maybe making the issues have some sort of theme (customer interaction, workplace safety, wellness, etc.)

    Any ideas? Has anyone seen it done right?

    1. GOG11*

      If the goal is transparency, would it make sense to provide some stats on various projects? If you were in a staff meeting, what would you communicate? If nothing is presenting itself or popping out at you as needing to go in the newsletter, then any of the pre-planned content you suggest seems fine to me. Usually the newsletters that I’ve seen done well are those that are put out when there is something to say rather than having one that’s regularly scheduled whether there is something to share or not.

    2. HeyNonnyNonny*

      Ah, newsletters…we’ve done more pop culture themes, like the Superbowl or the Oscars, which sometimes helps. I’ll say that my own experience with the employee of the month profile is tricky because it’s a gamble to see if anyone is interested, and you may end up wasting a lot of time chasing down the employees for content. But I love the idea of an interview with submitted questions and the customer letter…I might have to steal those for mine!

    3. pony tailed wonder*

      I work at a university and there are always a few key dates to remember – first class day, end of semester, etc. So reminders about those are helpful.

    4. Isben Takes Tea*

      In my experience with a large organization’s newsletter, the only stuff I really read are the glossaries or did-you-know facts for other departments or divisions, but that may be because I love my industry and want to know everything about it as a whole. I don’t need long articles about successful projects or the corporation “giving back.” *Useful* information you can’t get anywhere else.

  91. Anon for this*

    Wow, I can’t believe I made it in time! I have a question about resigning gracefully . I was hired about a month ago to replace someone who is moving on and it’s painfully obvious I’m crashing and burning.

    For example, I was hired for “chocolate teapot design” and was told I might potentially have to do “chocolate teapot production.”

    Turns out “production” is about 60% of the work I’m required to do. The company was aware that I was unskilled in this aspect of the job and they assured me they would provide training, however it’s not enough. I’m basically out on my own, and I’ve already made several mistakes that wound up costing the company money. Additionally, someone else in my department just resigned and so I’ve been saddled with his workload as well. I’m overworked and feeling like I’ve been taken advantage of, and it’s only my 4th week here.

    I wish to bow out, however I’m rather young (new grad) and I’ve never quit a job before. I’m very nervous because I know my manager has quite the temper and I’d
    really appreciate any advice/stories you guys have to offer!

    1. T3k*

      Have you tried talking to your manager about the tremendous workload and the difficulties you’re having? It’d be foolish of them to think in a month you could do “production” well when you stated you weren’t skilled in that, and then take on someone else’s work on top of it. If you want to try talking about it, I’d suggest doing it during a time where your manager isn’t upset or angry, and try to do it in a calm manner like “I appreciate that you think I can do A, B, and C, but it’s overwhelming when I can’t do A well. Is there a way we can try to balance this out?” or something of that nature. If they blow up in you face over this, then yeah, it’s probably a sign it’s not going to work out and you should bow out.

      1. Anon for this*

        Thanks T3k! This is a great suggestion. I’ve already had a conversation with my manager about possibly reducing my workload, but I got the feeling it was in one ear and out the other. I’m going to try to get through to him one more time. Fortunately I have the whole weekend to try and come up with a script. :)

    2. AdAgencyChick*

      Don’t quit without something else lined up!

      Do what you can, and try to give yourself a little serenity about what you can’t. And when you are ready to have that resignation conversation, just go in knowing that even a boss with a temper has absolutely no teeth when you’re not even going to be working for her any more. Boss starts yelling? Mentally make yourself a bag of popcorn and enjoy the show. What’s the worst she can do at that point, fire you? You can just sit there with a smile on your face knowing that no matter how much she yells, it won’t change the fact that you’re going someplace better and you won’t be working for her after X date.

      1. Not Today Satan*

        If she lives at home, it might be better for her to quit now and pretend this job never happened while her tenure has been so short, than to hang on until she finds a new one (which would ask why she’s leaving this job so soon).

  92. Prego*

    I am pregnant in my first trimester (yay!) and feeling pretty tired, dizzy, and mildly nauseous all the time (but no throwing up). Basically, I’m functional, but not at my best. Not a good enough reason to take sick days, since I want to save them for maternity leave. So how do I cope at work when I know I’m going to be operating at a sub-par level for a month or so? I don’t want to tell my boss about my pregnancy until I start showing.

    1. Gillian*

      This is totally unrelated nausea, but when I was feeling bad from chemo at work, I had hot tea with ginger in it and that helped to settle my stomach in between doses of anti-nausea meds. Republic of Tea brand’s ginger peach was my favorite, and having a hot drink shouldn’t raise any eyebrows.

      Congratulations!

    2. Laura*

      Hi! Congratulations! Me too!
      It’s tough because I feel so wiped out and generally gross. But I also feel really grateful I’m not straight up vomiting every hour.

      I am trying to take things minute by minute and make specific goals to focus on so I don’t keep looking at the clock and despairing.

    3. Not So Sunny*

      A bit OT, but Canada Dry Ginger Ale and Stash Lemon Ginger herbal tea are awesome for queasiness.

    4. some1*

      I’ve never been pregnant but I get nauseous if I haven’t had enough sleep sometimes, for whatever reason peppermints really help settle my stomach.

    5. einahpets*

      As other commenters have said, finding a tea that helps can be a big boost. For my first, it was a lemon ginger tea, this time minty teas were more soothing with the nausea. If nothing else, the smell helped sometimes.

      Other things that helped me were a desktop fan (which I could use to basically blow away food smells — my cube is near the kitchen). Snacking on something small (even if I didn’t feel like it) also helped settle my stomach. Smaller meals in general. When the nausea was worse, I also got these things called SeaBands that helped some.

      Just know that for some ‘lucky’ women (myself included) the nausea / ick doesn’t let up until 16-18 weeks +. Everyone kept telling me that it’d only be a month or so and then… it wasn’t. I am at 16 weeks now and occasionally still have it.

    6. TotesMaGoats*

      I know you say you don’t want to tell your boss. There are a lot of reasons not to and I understand them. I went through several miscarriages before a successful pregnancy, so I understand that really well.

      However, if you are decidedly into your first trimester, think about telling your boss. I did. I said “Yep, I’m pregnant. I feel like crap. I want to sleep. I’ll be taking a nap during my lunch hour.” It went over fine. Everyone could always tell when I got pregnant because I was SO SO SO tired and really forgetful. Given everything I’d been through I wasn’t worried about keeping it a secret. My boss and coworkers already knew about the other miscarriages. I did work in a great family atmosphere, so it wasn’t weird that information was shared.

      I will say that when I was pretty advanced in my pregnancy, I told my boss that X date is my last date for statewide travel. I was not going to be more than 30 minutes from my doctors and hospital. I had to drive a lot for my job. They were totally fine with it. Something to think about when doing your transition planning.

      Hope you feel better!

  93. Not Going to Say*

    Is it impossible to find a job nowadays with reasonable hours that lets a person have some semblance of a work/life balance? For what its worth, I’m a lawyer and I know that that usually means more work than a lot of jobs. I’m also a litigator, which has its own set of weird and long hours. But my current job pays badly and wants so much out of me, it is really wearing me down. I can’t continue my life like this. I love what I do, I just want to do less of it… I’ve even considered trying to move into litigation support just so I can get some of my life back and find a better working environment, but I actually don’t have experience with the software that is used in most litigation support roles (though I would like to). Am I searching for the impossible here? I don’t need 9-5, I just want to stop billing over 200 hours a month (I am not even biglaw, so I’m doing this for a pittance!).

    1. Sammie*

      I’m not a lawyer but I empathise about the crazy hours. I work in marketing and I’m doing about 260 hours a month. Apparently–because there are–EMERGENCIES, in marketing….

      1. Not Going to Say*

        I have no idea what a marketing emergency would entail :-p 200 billable hours is probably more like 240-260 actual working hours, so we’re on the same page. It is just so draining! Do you do anything to stay sane?

    2. Isben Takes Tea*

      I know there are, because I have one :-).

      But I will say it depends not only on the company, but even the department and the manager. While my manager makes sure I leave at five every day, other departments are still working away.

      I have no idea about lawyering, though.

    3. Renee*

      I had to leave full-time practice to get it. My first job out of litigation was a temporary in-house contract attorney position. I found that position to be incredibly less stressful than my law firm job. The work/life balance was immediately better, but corporate culture is very different, in both good and bad ways. When that position ended, I got lucky with an administrative position that opened up at a technical manufacturer where my friend worked. The position involves management of all of the administrative functions of the company, along with legal duties like contract review and compliance. I have rarely worked over 40 hours, and my salary is the same as that for my last law firm job (10 years, post-bar). I know some people love practicing law and wouldn’t leave it, but I found the culture in my community to be too toxic and abusive. I worked until I made myself sick (literally — I ended up with daily chronic migraines) for my last firm, and when I got sick and had to take a week’s leave, the partners called a special meeting to chastise me for it and told me I “just needed to do better.” There were aspects I really liked about the work, but there was so much competition that it was hard to get a W-2 job over a contract job, and when I did, the pay was way out of line with the stress level. I haven’t regretted leaving law firm practice for even a second. So, no, not impossible, but you may not find it along the traditional avenues. I’m putting my email in so you can contact me if you want to. I totally feel for where you are right now.

      1. Renee*

        It doesn’t look it actually shows up when you enter an email? In any case, if you want it, reply and I will post one I don’t mind losing to spammers so you can reach me.

      2. Not Going to Say*

        That would be great if we could get in touch – ! I really don’t want to leave litigation, because I love it. I’ve thought about inhouse positions but I just can’t get excited about the work. I thought a smaller firm would be more “lifestyle,” especially because I’m getting about half of what the biglaw rates are, but they’re just working me as hard for half the money, and I feel unappreciated and underpaid. That why I started to look into Lit Support, but I have no experience with any doc review software (my firm just doens’t use it). Sometimes I feel so torn between doing the work that I love and having the life that I want, as if I can’t have them at the same time.

        1. Renee*

          OK, try rmbjd98 at the domain that starts with a “y” that a lot of people used more than a decade ago. That one is already a spamcatcher already. I’ll give you my real email when you get in touch.

        2. Renee*

          I think that the legal industry itself is the problem right now. The culture in general is not healthy. I loved the forensics and writing aspects of my job, but the pressure was just untenable, especially in light of what I was getting paid. I think you can still find firms that treat their attorneys well, but in my community the competition ensured those jobs were never open.

    4. Silver*

      Maybe not one for you but I work for a major studio in a non-US territory and have found that a lot of the people in acquisitions, distribution, production and business affairs are ex law. It seems to be a big help in negotiating with clients and working out agreements etc. There are of course also lawyers in the in-house legal departments. This also holds true for broadcasters.

      These jobs tend to be mostly in major capital cities in each major territories though so might not suit. (Think LA, NY, London, Berlin, Hong Kong, Singapore, Sydney etc).

  94. Liz T.*

    Just had an awesome phone interview!!!!!!

    But…there’s an important bit of required travel that might conflict with my wedding :(

  95. Tris Prior*

    How do I care less about my co-workers?

    … that sounds terrible. To clarify – everyone is stressed and overworked and miserable since we had our layoff and I’m really stressing myself out trying to make things easier for my co-workers (mostly peers), to the detriment of myself.

    An example: A couple days ago we unexpectedly had about 3 times as much time-sensitive work as usual come in. My co-worker can’t do her part of the job until I complete my part, and she’s the only one left who can do her part. She was deathly ill with some flu-ish thing, and wanted to go home sick as soon as she was finished. I worked as fast as I could but still couldn’t get my work to her soon enough that she could leave early. So I didn’t eat all day – because of the nature of our work we are not allowed to eat at our desks. I didn’t want to stop for even 5 minutes because I felt so bad that she couldn’t go home and rest because I was taking too long. And I ended up feeling sick and shaky myself for the rest of the day because I don’t do well if I don’t eat. This kind of thing happens a lot since we lost people.

    It’s been pointed out to me – both in therapy and by my partner – that this might not be healthy. :) And that I have needs too and should put myself first. Does anyone else struggle with this, and how did you change your thinking? We are all pretty close here at work and do actually care about each other – and to make things worse, we’re one of those offices where everyone’s always sick. I’m the only one who barely ever catches what’s going around and I feel so bad when I’m preventing someone who shouldn’t even be at work – but came in because there’s literally no one else to do the work that can’t wait – from going home and getting over their illness.

    My bosses say I’m doing great and I shouldn’t worry about this, so I know it’s all in my head.

    1. LCL*

      If you don’t take care of yourself, eventually you will crash hard, and be gone for a lot longer than 5 minutes. Either from getting sick, or so fatigued and out of it you have a slip and fall accident, or hit a ped with your car, or make a work mistake that could kill someone.

      You weren’t preventing your sick co worker from going home. She made that decision.

    2. Isben Takes Tea*

      I’m glad you have a support system encouraging you! I’m also the first to commiserate that having it all in your head can make it more difficult to deal with, but no less real.

      I agree that what you’re doing is coming from a compassionate place, but you are taking on responsibility where none is warranted. You are not responsible for their health, rest, workload, or reactions to any of the above.

      It is wonderful that you all care about each other. It might help to consider that not taking care of your own needs might endanger that–a few more days not eating and you could become resentful, even if you don’t mean to be, and then you’ll feel guilty for being resentful. If they care about you, too, then they won’t want you not eating or not sleeping or whatever on their behalf. Of course there are one-time favors, but if the workload is that overwhelming, then it’s the COMPANY’S problem, NOT YOURS. If there’s too much work and not enough time/labor to do it all, it is not your responsibility to cover that gap.

      If you are a compassionate person by nature, it is so easy to adopt the responsibility of compassion for those around you regardless of the situation. There’s nothing wrong with wanting the lives of those around you to go smoother, but you can’t carry another’s load if you don’t balance your own first. There are some occasions where NOT helping can be better in the long run, i.e. your bosses see how overworked everyone truly is.

      Anyway, that’s my two cents and a gum wrapper. I hope your bosses get you more assistance soon!

    3. catsAreCool*

      Take care of yourself. Think about this being like when you’re on an airplane, they say that if there is someone you need to help with an oxygen mask, put your own mask on first. The reasoning is that if you don’t, you might run out of air, not be able to help yourself, and the person you need to help probably can’t help you either. If you let yourself get so worn down you can’t do your job, that’s going to make things worse for your co-workers.

    4. Nobody*

      This doesn’t directly address your question, but here is my experience with the not eating part. I work 12-hour shifts, and in the past, when we were really busy, I would sometimes go the whole 12 hours without a break (I couldn’t have food in my work area, either). This was a moderately physical job, not just sitting at a desk. Eventually, though, I came to the realization that I was able to be more productive during the second half of the shift if I stopped for 15 minutes to take a lunch break (with the “break” part — taking 15 minutes to clear my head — being just as important as the “lunch” part). Not stopping for a lunch break can actually be counter-productive if it ends up slowing you down.

      This can also be applied in the bigger picture, because if you continue to carry all the responsibility on your shoulders, you will get stressed, burned out, and resentful, which can lead to mistakes, illness, and strained relationships with your coworkers. Maybe you don’t need to care less about your coworkers, but you do need to recognize that letting yourself get burned out won’t benefit anyone.

  96. Change is scary!*

    I was just informed yesterday that as part of a large-scale reorganization of our department, I’m going to be moved to a new team effective a week from Monday. I’ll be taking a portion of my current projects with me, and disengaging from other projects as I transition to new ones. At first glance, the new projects look interesting and I think I will have opportunity for a lot of growth and development in this team. I met my new boss yesterday, and he seemed great also.

    On the other hand, this couldn’t come at a worse time for me personally. I have a chronic illness and am in the middle of a fairly serious flare-up right now, which I’m actively trying to fight off. My first instinct is to treat this transfer as a new job and make every effort to impress my new boss and coworkers with stellar work right out of the gate, but I’m a little concerned about that for a couple of reasons.

    One, I’m worried that I might not be able to put in my highest level of performance consistently if I continue having rough days, health-wise. I don’t think there’s any way I’ll be able to shake off my symptoms substantially by the time I report to my new boss in just over a week (my flare-ups historically have come on gradually over a course of months, and eventually recede just as gradually). I do have an ADA accommodation to work remotely as needed when I have bad days. I’m also actively working with my doctor (a specialist) to tweak my medications and treat the symptoms meanwhile, but all of this simply takes time, and unfortunately I’m just not at my best right now.

    And two, I’m worried that I’ll subconsciously overcompensate for my health issues by pushing myself too hard, but end up setting my health back even further as a result. This is actually a pattern I’ve fallen into repeatedly over the last several years and now am trying to break myself of. I realize I need to honor my health and take better care of myself if I want to avoid ending up in the hospital, or worse, unable to work for an extended period (which is not an option financially).

    How do I reconcile needing to perform at a very high level/make a good first impression on my new team and boss with also needing to be gentle with myself health-wise right now? How much should I disclose to New Boss about what’s going on with me (in general I’m pretty open about my condition) without seeming to make preemptive excuses? Any advice in general? Help!

    1. fposte*

      As somebody with similar issues, I vote for disclose to New Boss. “I pride myself on my performance despite my Habsburgitis, but I do need to accommodate it during a flareup; generally I wouldn’t mention it right out of the gate, but as luck would have it I’m in a flareup right now. I’d like to continue with my accommodation of working from home/leaving early/sitting upside down for the moment, and I expect it’ll all be back on track in a week.”

      I think 1) it’s already officially known at the company that this is something you deal with, so it shouldn’t be a big deal for the knowledge to spread to somebody new; 2) you’re a high performer anyway and 3) you won’t feel so inclined to overwork yourself to make sure New Boss doesn’t think anything’s wrong.

      1. Change is scary!*

        Thank you for this script! This is very helpful. I definitely think I will need to disclose to New Boss more or less right away, but was struggling to phrase it in a way that didn’t sound sort of like “oh btw, please expect less of me at first.”

        Would it change anything if “back on track in a week” is more like “back on track at some point in the not-so-distant future/hopefully by fall, but I can’t pinpoint exactly when”?

        1. fposte*

          Ah, I think I misread the timeframe in the first post. I think the longer the time frame, the better your guidance needs to be. “In the past, the progression has meant two months at the accommodation schedule, one month of transition, and back to full in-office time at three; if it happens like that this time, I’d be back full time in the office at the beginning of November and available remotely until then.” Presumably New Boss isn’t stupid and grasps that you don’t know exactly when you’ll be well, but she understandably wants to know how likely it is she’s going to see you in the office for upcoming named calendar months; I’d be as specific as possible about projections and stay away from “not too distant future” stuff and even “fall,” because that’s a term that means different things to different people.

          1. Change is scary!*

            This makes sense, thank you! The good news is that I’m only remote intermittently/on especially bad days, and in the office the rest of the time, so I’m not going to be totally out-of-pocket while getting started in the new role. I’ve been averaging 1-2 days remote per week recently. I do also have *some* ability to work around important meetings or events where face-time is critical, and in this field (we’re all programmers/developers) remote work is fairly common, so hopefully I won’t be too much of an outlier.

    2. AdAgencyChick*

      Is your current/soon-to-be-former boss still around? If so, I’d ask her to help you with this. It would be perfectly normal for her to want to talk to your new manager about your working style, your strengths/weaknesses, what you’ve been working on — and that kind of conversation is a perfect place for her to mention your medical condition, what accommodations it requires, and by the way, it hasn’t gotten in the way of you being a solid worker.

      1. Change is scary!*

        Yep, Old Boss is still my manager for the next week and then will be around during a transition period. He’s already talked to New Boss and shared that an accommodation is in place, no issues with it so far, but he was hesitant to share the more personal medical details and so that would be up to me. From what I hear, New Boss is fine with the accommodation, so that’s a start at least.

        Old Boss also let me know that he’s sharing info about my strengths/technical skills/etc. with New Boss, and in particular mentioning that I’m good with complex technical work, so I hope that will help my reputation to precede me…

  97. Margali*

    Many thanks to those who gave me advice on writing a job description a few weeks ago. I had to write a new one earlier this week, and have received several compliments on its specificity and clarity. Woot! Now I’m going to go review all our open positions and work on rewriting those descriptions.

  98. AdAgencyChick*

    I would just like to thank Alison for her excellent phrases for use in difficult conversations.

    I was in a meeting a couple of days ago where one team member walked in angry. We hadn’t even started discussing what was to be done, but she was clearly already upset over what she thought she needed to do. Instead of calmly asking what was needed and stating what she could do in the time frame we had, she came at the discussion with a much more belligerent tone. (And yes, I would have considered that tone just as bad coming from a man!) The person she was arguing with is normally a very cool customer, but even she was rising to the bait and starting to give snippy answers. It was really uncomfortable for the other three of us who were in the room watching them go at it.

    …until I pulled out one of Alison’s magic phrases. “I’m sorry to interrupt — this is turning weirdly confrontational.”

    It was seriously magic. It got both of them to step back and talk to each other in a much more measured way. One of the other people in the room pulled me aside after the meeting to thank me for saying that, because it COMPLETELY changed the tone of the meeting. (This person also said that if I hadn’t done that, she’d been ready to walk out of the meeting because it was so uncomfortable and unproductive.)

    So, thank you, Ms. Green!

    1. Bekx*

      I’ve had such great luck with “Wow.” too!

      If I had a nickel for every time I’ve said that I should make a cross stitch sampler out of all of Alison’s phrases I’d be rich. She, and the community, come up with some great phrases.

  99. Maisie*

    I’m really struggling with how self-directed my position is. I’m essentially the system owner for my nonprofit’s CRM system – there is nobody else here who has the technical knowledge or capability that I have. As a result, I often get introduced as the ‘CRM manager’. I’ve not got a managerial title – I’ve only been in the workforce for nine months! – and not having a team to fall back on or a manager who can direct me is really, really difficult. I know I’m good at what I do, and I’ve yet to do anything catastrophic, but I really need help. How do I effectively set my targets? How do I direct my own growth best? This is my first and only full-time job out of university.

    1. MsM*

      Do you have a sense of how the other departments use the CRM, and whether the system’s meeting their needs, or if there are ways it could be more effective? If not, that might be a place to start, once you’ve cleared it with whoever you do report to.

      Also, do you have interns? Seeing if you can get some time to train one or more of them would give you some opportunity to do a bit of supervising along with some help if you need it, and you can probably sell it as a skill it would be useful for them to have. (I know I’ve gotten interviews based almost entirely on having experience with a particular CRM.)

  100. Anonymous Educator*

    How do you handle when you’ve moved from a really toxic work environment to a normal environment, and the people at your new workplace complain about the normal environment and (subtly) ask you to commiserate? I’m honestly happy at my new job, and it would take a great deal of explanation for me to convey to my new co-workers (and, frankly, I don’t think they’re that interested in the details) just how toxic my old workplace was. I just can’t commiserate. I try to nod and just smile, but I’m honestly thinking inside “You don’t know how good we have it here!”

    1. brightstar*

      My general trick is that people just want to talk about themselves and if you just ask them questions about what’s going on with them, they’ll be fine. Or I’ll briefly mention I’ve worked in some not so nice places so “it takes a lot to bother me”.

      1. Anonymous Educator*

        Yeah, that sounds like a good tactic. I have tried on a couple of occasions to explain to co-workers my former situation, but I just get the glazed-eyes look. They really don’t care. You’re right—they just want to be listened to about whatever they’re griping about. It’s a venting session. And I definitely don’t say “You don’t know how good we have it here!” I just think it. It’s just a bit of an odd situation to be in…

      2. Tris Prior*

        Agree with this. I stick to noncommittal responses like “that sounds really hard.”

        I’ve been in this situation at my current job and always had to consciously keep from saying, “holy shit, if you think THIS is bad you wouldn’t last 5 minutes at Former Employer.”

  101. Treena*

    In the near future, I’m going to be applying to graduate programs (necessary for my field, don’t worry!). I’ve been thinking about maybe getting an graduate assistantship and a lot of them say they want experience in SAS or SPSS. Since I’m so many years out, where are some good places to get my feet wet and learn it. Also, SAS or SPSS? I’ve read that if you know one it’s fine for the employer because they know you can pick up whatever software they use.

    1. Chrissi*

      Take this w/ a grain of salt bc I don’t work w/ them much, but I would say SAS. I rarely see SPSS being used by the companies I work w/.

      1. Treena*

        Can I ask which general field you’re in? By companies, do you mean private corporations? I’d be using this in an academic setting so I’m not sure if the overlap is the same.

        1. Chrissi*

          Ah, yes, I mean private corporations – I work w/ their finance departments generally. I used SPSS in college, so I’m not sure which would be best in academia.

    2. K*

      Definitely SAS but yes, once you know one programming language is easy enough to pick up another. I’d check the SAS website to see if they have any online tutorials.

      1. Mimmy*

        What *is* SPSS anyway? I know it stands for Statistical Package for the Social Science (or something like that?) but what does it do? I envision it being similar to Access (with databases, both entry and building) but specific to social science research. I assume SAS is similar?

        1. AvonLady Barksdale*

          I’m not the one who uses it– I have it on my computer, but for purely organizational purposes– but SPSS allows you to analyze sets of data. We run surveys and the data gets loaded into SPSS. From there, our analysts can run frequencies, regressions, and all kinds of other fancy stuff that I know nothing about.

    4. Bangs not Fringe*

      May I throw in a 3rd option? What about R?

      It’s free. A license for SAS is out of control expensive. If your job or school isn’t providing it, it’s not worth it to go an buy on your own. You can practice all the same skills and similar procedure/protocols but on a free platform and there are tons of online resources out there to help guide you.

      1. Treena*

        I’ve read that R is technically the better language (aside from the free!) but that a lot of universities don’t use it. Is it similar enough to SAS/SPSS that the skills could be transferrable?

        1. Pineapple Incident*

          SPSS and SAS are sort of related, but are different programs for data analysis. I don’t know how interchangeable R is with SPSS/SAS.. maybe some of the skills, but SAS is preferred by companies over R. I’m going to school for public health/trying to find jobs in related research– these jobs are usually asking for experience in SAS, fewer with SPSS and SAS, and I haven’t seen one in the field I’m going into that mentions R at all. I suppose it probably depends on the field that you’re looking at though.

  102. Camellia*

    Help! New person on our team (three weeks) and I am really struggling with one of his communication quirks.

    We are trying to figure out how to make a new design the customer wants, so he and I do research and then get together and discuss what we’ve found so far. When he asked questions or made comments about my research, he prefaced everything with, “I don’t mean to beat you up about this but yada yada yada.” And sometimes, “I don’t mean to beat you up about this but I guess I am, yada yada.” I didn’t think too much of it; I train a lot of people and have discovered that some people just feel the need to apologize when asking questions and I put this in that category. So after giving it a few days I did my usual and prefaced one of my answers with, “First, stop apologizing, you don’t need to do that when you ask me a question”, delivered with my friendliest smile. This has worked well for me in the past; people relax and communication is much easier, and that seemed to happen here. I thought everything was copacetic.

    Then a couple days later, in a larger meeting on another topic, with multiple people and a lively discussion going on and all of us debating/supporting our own positions, he started prefacing his remarks on my points (and only mine, no one else’s) with, “I know you’re upset but yada yada.” And then he did the same thing in a meeting the next day. Every. Single. Time.

    This particular “quirk” is new to me. It feels totally weird, really personal, I don’t want it to continue, and I have absolutely no idea how to deal with it. It reminds me of the scenario that I’ve heard described, where out of the blue someone says, “Oh, you’re upset,” and you say, “No, I’m not”, and they say, “Yes you are,” and by then you ARE upset. Any thoughts on handling this?

    1. fposte*

      Colleague at the same level? “Bob, are you taking this personally? It’s not personal, so please don’t make guesses about my emotional state–I just want to hear what you think of the plan,” said cheerfully.

      1. Camellia*

        Yes, same level, and this is great! I will definitely practice so I will be ready in case he does it again. Thanks!

    2. afiendishthingy*

      Omg. I don’t know how I would handle that other than by going totally insane. Good luck!

    3. Jennifer*

      I’m guessing he got burned in a previous job and is now used to apologizing every time he says something, because he dealt with someone that he had to apologize to.

    4. Delyssia*

      I’d go for bewilderment. Ideally, this is one you call him out on in a one-on-one, not a group setting.

      Him: I know you’re upset, but–
      You: Wait, what? Why do you think I’m upset?

      Especially since you are cutting him off, your tone has to be completely, 100% baffled to avoid looking like you are in fact angry. (Which, in fairness, I would be, but only because he’s started on this nonsense again!) I think personally, I could pull off bewildered better than cheerful here.

  103. brightstar*

    This scenario is happening at a friend’s workplace, but she’s given me permission to post about it here as neither of us have any idea how to deal with it. I will say from what she has said management is severely lacking at this place and it is a very deadline driven type of work.

    One of my friend’s coworkers is an older dude (sixty-ish) who has done things such as:

    1. Stopped her in the hallway to remark on how much gray hair she has.
    2. Turned out the lights in a department manager’s office.
    3. A couple of week’s ago demanded my friend work on his project. She was already working on another project and told him no. She told him no three times and his response was to stand behind her desk, refuse to leave, and harass her until she felt forced to work on his project just to get him away from her.

    For the socially deaf things such as commenting on her gray hairs, I’ve recommended widening her eyes and saying “Wow” as has been referenced on here. But for standing behind her chair and forcing her to work on his project despite her already being busy I had no words for that besides how appalled I was at his behavior.

    1. NJ Anon*

      I would have told him to get lost. He is not her supervisor. I then would go to my supervisor and tell them these things. What an ass!

    2. fposte*

      I don’t get #2. Do you mean while the manager was in there? Then that’s the manager’s problem to deal with, and presumably it was handled on the spot.

      On #3, she gets up and walks away, preferably to her manager’s desk. “I’m having difficulty focusing on Priority A because John is insisting I push it aside for his work. Additionally, he was being so aggressive about it that I was pretty startled–do you have any suggestions about dealing with this if it happens again?”

      From a human standpoint, it’s natural to aggregate data to figure out if he’s an okay member of the human pack. From a work standpoint, #1 and #2 aren’t reportable; #3 is.

      And next time he wants her to stop in the hallway, she doesn’t have to stop.

      1. brightstar*

        I was just including some of his more asinine behavior. Yes, the manager was in the office (and this is my friend’s supervisor who now telecommutes from a few states away) and did nothing about it. Like I said, the management is lacking here. I believe she did inform her supervisor who basically said “That’s how they are.”

    3. Pearl*

      #3 – I’m a little non-confrontational and would’ve said, “If I’m going to switch to your project, I need to ask my boss” and then either physically go find the boss or call them immediately. You need a very good reason to cross that boundary of personal space and it’s bizarre and kind of threatening that he physically crowded her and wouldn’t back off.

        1. GigglyPuff*

          I’m non-confrontational also, I might have gotten up from my chair, forcing him backwards and then gone into the restroom to see if that would get rid of him.

    4. MsM*

      “Bob, I already told you I don’t have time to help, and standing there and distracting me is not going to get either of our projects done any faster. Please go check with Jill whether she’s got any availability and let me focus.”

  104. einahpets*

    Just found out that I got a promotion, effective Monday this week!

    I had been asking my manager on Tuesday whether I should be ordering business cards as the ones I had were an old title (from 2 years ago) and she had told me to wait… glad that I did! :)

  105. part of the machine*

    Im traveling with co-workers next week. And I have so many questions:

    1) We are driving together per company regulations. Is it okay to sleep in the car? when I am not driving, I have a tendency to fall asleep, but I am worried that this is not okay.
    2) Is it okay to listen to pod-casts/read etc while coworker drives?
    3) help with excuses/reasons to decline excessive hanging out with coworkers during downtime? I like my coworkers, but I don’t like spending all meals/etc together.

    2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      I’d say no to the first two, unless the driver suggests it. Part of the role of the rider is to keep the driver company.

      Moreover, do you really want to sleep in front of a coworker? People drool, grunt, fart, and put their hands in weird places while they sleep. I wouldn’t want to do that while I was so up close and personal with a colleague.

      As for downtime, I’d just be upfront about it: “I need some private time to recharge, so I’m going to get dinner by myself and then head to my room. I’ll see you in the morning!”

      1. HeyNonnyNonny*

        Yeah, I’d ask the driver if they have preferences. They are the one driving, after all. I know I prefer any passengers to talk to me and stay engaged because it helps me stay alert, especially on long trips.

    3. Pearl*

      I think it might be a little weird to sleep – it’s always awkward being around a sleeping person and wondering whether you’re going to wake them.

      Podcasts or reading should be okay, but you should feel the driver out about it. If they don’t try to keep up a running conversation it would be fine to pull out a book. There are some people who wouldn’t want to talk the entire time for a long drive. Other people might need talking to help them stay alert.

      As for spending time alone, I’d just say that I need some downtime. People should understand.

    4. part of the machine*

      thanks for the suggestions!! I may try to just get a caffinated beverage for the ride, so I don’t doze off. We are going to be a full car, 3-4 people total. I won’t be the only passenger.

      The excuse about downtime works well the first night, but the second, third? all the lunches? It gets to be a lot. So, I am trying to stock pile some go-to reasons. Also, if my contingent likes to eat together/hangout, is it okay if I am ducking out? Also, okay to break off and have lunch with one person instead of all 4?

      1. HeyNonnyNonny*

        You could also say that you made other plans, need to review something for work, or have some personal catching up to do. There’s also something to be said for just saying ‘Oh good, it’s lunch time! See you guys in an hour!’ and just walking away. If you act like it’s perfectly normal, the other team members might follow your lead.

      2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

        It sounds like you want to skip nearly all of the meals and other gatherings. Is that right? If it is, then I think that’s an even stronger reason for just being upfront with people. Cultivate your reputation as an introvert who needs downtime.

        I traveled very extensively in my last job, and I quickly trained my colleagues to expect that I wouldn’t join them for most of the post-work activities. I wasn’t standoffish, I’m naturally outgoing and friendly and funny, but I need a lot of quiet time to recuperate.

        1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

          An upside of this is that whenever you do join an activity people tend to be really excited. :)

  106. Former Office Superstar*

    What do you do if you’ve been written off at work?

    I started a new job about 10 months ago. My boss and my clients all say I’m doing great work and I’ve openly and directly expressed a desire for more responsibilities and assignments, but I continue to get left out of key meetings, am the only person in my department that the Head does not have 1-on-1s with, can’t get any of my conference requests approved (even though other folks in the company do), etc. Management seems completely uninterested in developing me professionally (something important to my work satisfaction).

    Has anyone else experienced this? Is there a way forward at this organization? How do you “re-build” a reputation when you haven’ t been doing anything wrong?

    1. Charlotte Collins*

      Do you have a regular one-on-one with your direct boss? Maybe you could bring these issues up there. It’s possible that they have some sort of weird time-in-job requirements for these things.

  107. TheExchequer*

    I am on an official count down to number of days I have left in this Twilight Zone. (8 days (6 business days if you include today), 7 and a half hours, otherwise known as NOT SOON ENOUGH).

    But as happy (soooo happy) as I am to be leaving here (where the response to “I’m leaving” is to ignore that it’s happening and try to give me more responsibility), I’m nervous about the new job! Not like “fearful gnawing in the pit of my stomach that I made the wrong decision” anxiety but “what if I mess up I hope I do a good job what if I’m terrible” nerves. I know, intellectually, that these nerves will only go away once I actually do a good job, but is there anything else that makes them quieter? And, on that note, what’s the best place I can go to brush up my not lacking but slightly rusty Excel skills?

    1. Saro*

      I’m on my phone now or I’d link to it. If you do a search on this site, plenty of links will come up. I’ve asked this question before.

    1. Anonymousterical*

      This is pretty late, so you may not even see it, but: last year, I got to the interview stage at the SSA via an application through usajobs.gov. I didn’t go through with the interview (I found out I had a relative there and just NO). I also got two interviews with a state agency. My advice is to not undersell yourself in the skills assessment/QA thing it pushes you through to. They screen based on answers given to that. Don’t lie but just really don’t sell yourself short.

  109. I Need Some Help*

    Somewhat of a responder here going anon – I need your help. How do you keep from getting frustrated in a phone call? How do you keep your voice from rising and being perceived as yelling? I was in a conversation with a coworker who was insisting that they were right and I was insisting that the perception I had was different. They kept pounding and pounding away on me. At this point they said, I’m going to talk to your boss. I really didnt have a chance to wave them off because they had already pinged my boss. My boss and they sit together. So not only did they and my boss talk about the situation, but they complained about my tone of voice. My boss had to interrupt what he/she was doing and cousel me. Yet, their tone of voice was attitudal too.

    Help me! How do you keep yourself calm? How do you exit a 1-1 conversation? Do any of you raise your voice in conversation?

    1. Katie the Fed*

      When I feel myself getting tense/frustrated/angry I try to end the conversation and take it to email when possible. I’m much more composed when I can write out my thoughts and read before I hit send. If that fails I just try to calm down and re-engage later.

    2. oldfashionedlovesong*

      Taking a breath and really slowing down, whether that’s allowing an audible pause before you begin speaking, or actually spacing your words out, helps. Another thing is modulating the pitch of your voice. At least for me, when I get upset the pitch of my voice rises, and that’s really noticeable to others as a signal that I’m upset. If I can catch myself and say the exact same thing I was going to say anyway at a normal, or slightly lower than normal, pitch, it doesn’t sound like I’m taking a “tone”. (As a rule, I don’t like when people call out others on their tone because it’s so often a derailing tactic, but that’s irrelevant to your specific question.)

    3. fposte*

      And can you make this work when you’re locked in battle with the grocery self-scanner and can’t get help? Asking for a friend.

    4. catsAreCool*

      When someone insists that they’re right and I’m wrong, I sometimes try to take a step back and try to have them walk me step by step through their line of thinking. Sometimes this works pretty well. Sometimes when taken through step by step, someone will realize where they went wrong (or I’ll realize they were right).

      Other times, I might say something like “I’m confused about this, is it OK if I explain how I came to my conclusion, and you let me know where I went wrong?”

  110. Kira*

    Ok, is this weird? My new office manager recently started storing all our batteries in the lunchroom freezer. I’m talking gallon bags full of batteries. She says they keep their charge longer, which I had heard, but surely the difference is tiny? But I just can’t imagine a well run company storing office supplies in the freezer.

      1. Natalie*

        Sort of off-topic, but that article always reminds me of storing film in the fridge (which was actually helpful for some types of film). My step dad was into photography so growing up there were always a couple of rolls of film in my fridge. Confused the hell out of my friends.

        1. Headachey*

          Oh, geez, my photographer father did this, but with boxes and boxes of film. My high school friends were always amused to see our fridge basically full of film, beer, and a few condiments.

  111. Rye-Ann*

    So I am currently job searching, but one of my references – he’s actually the most important one, truthfully – is going to be out of the country for about 3 weeks during August. I’m not sure if they’ll be able to call him or not. Should I get a back-up reference to replace him during that time?

    1. AnnieNonymous*

      References generally aren’t called until after you’ve interviewed. I’d wait and see if you have any promising interviews before scrapping your best reference.

      1. Rye-Ann*

        Well, I know I worded it weirdly, but I wasn’t actually going to “scrap him,” just maybe say to interviewers, “He’s not available, but you can contact so-and-so instead if you want to talk to 3 people.” I think you’re right though, thanks!

      1. Rye-Ann*

        I will ask him if it comes up, but the last couple of “vacations” he’s had have been working vacations, so I’d like for him to feel he can truly relax this time!

    3. Jennifer*

      List him, but add a note on the list saying (out of the country from X to Y dates), and also ask if he’s contactable via e-mail or some other way. I don’t know how long your job search is going to take or what promising things might happen between now and August, but it may or may not be a factor, so you might as well not rule him out.

      And yeah, never hurts to have a fourth reference if #1 isn’t easy to get ahold of.

  112. Lionness*

    I am devastated.

    Yesterday, my direct manager told me she would be leaving in two weeks. I took this job because I knew our work styles would be very complimentary and I haven’t had that in a long time. She is supportive, encouraging, challenging and pushes me to expand my boundaries at work. She advocates for me and my team.

    And she is leaving. I get it. I know why she is leaving and it is great for her but it is still so upsetting. I’ve never been this upset about losing a manager before. Honestly? I’m scared.

    I’m scared I’ll hate my new manager. I’m scared we won’t mesh. I’m scared that as a remote manager I won’t have the same level of relationship and won’t be able to build that rapport.

    1. CanadianDot*

      My best advice is to not borrow trouble. If you don’t have any control over who gets hired in your manager’s place, there’s not much you can do but try your best to build a good rapport with them when they come in. Remember that the people who hired your old manager are likely the same people who will be hiring the new manager, and may very well be looking for someone similar.

        1. CanadianDot*

          Well, hopefully they’re still looking for someone just the manager who left. :-)

    2. afiendishthingy*

      I feel you. We are losing a really beloved boss as well, and I have the same fears as you. But I really loved my boss at my last job and I worried when I left that I wouldn’t find another good boss, and I did, so they are out there. So I have what I learned from my previous great bosses, and hopefully my next supervisor will be good as well. Worst case scenario you and I will end up looking for new jobs, but odds are there will at least be some good things about our next managers.

  113. CanadianDot*

    I’ve been given the opportunity here at work to be the hiring manager for a job competition for a position at the same level as me, and I’m so excited and nervous. I’m basically at the lowest rung on the ladder as an entry-level admin, but I’ve had a lot of great feedback, and part of the reason I was made hiring manager is that they want me to find someone a lot like me. But I’m very nervous about it! I’ve only been in job interviews from the other side, and I want to be a good interviewer. A slight complication – a friend of mine will be applying for the job. But we went live yesterday morning, and we’ve already got 14 applications and nearly a thousand views.

    I’m very interested in going into HR if I decide I want to move up career-wise, so I’m very invested in not messing this up. If anyone has any advice, I would be very appreciative!

    1. some1*

      I’m an admin and I think fitting in with the team is such an important point part of the role as is flexibility, so I would ask questions that tries gauge that.

  114. BeaW*

    I’m hearing ugly rumors that our new building will be an open plan with shared tables. Generally these ugly rumors turn out to be true.

    Some people handle highly confidential health and research data, and outside of meetings people do not need to be in a space that is essentially a cafeteria but without the benefit of food. What we need is a workspace free of distraction.

    1. Delyssia*

      I sympathize. My current office is relocating in the next six months, and the new office space will be open plan. I feel like my company is embracing the open office concept right at the time that the backlash against it is really growing. I expect that I will be wearing headphones A LOT. (Ideally, I’d also like to convince my boss to let me work from home routinely, but I think that’ll be a harder sell.)

      1. Bea W*

        I’m pretty sure my entire team will shift to taking the max amount of days working from home allowable. Our new building is just a bunch of girders at the moment. I’m hoping the people in charge of furnishing it come to their senses before it gets to that point.

  115. University Girl*

    I work in a department of four in a fairly small university. I am the youngest person in the office and the secretary is the oldest. We haven’t had a great working relationship since I was hired after only a month or two of temping. Our old boss swept everything under the rug and ignored complaints myself and my coworker would raise about the secretary (walking away without informing anyone, making mistakes and not taking ownership for them or seeing them through, ignoring things she doesn’t want to deal with). The university hired a replacement for our old boss almost a year ago and she is absolutely amazing. She’s revamping so many things and making life a lot easier for us. In the beginning, she seemed to understand our issues with the secretary, but now she basically writes them all off. I can’t see a way to lodge a grievance without sounding bitter. I realize I have a more important job than her, but I shouldn’t be cleaning up her messes. Any ideas? The secretary is the type of person who won’t say a word to me unless I speak to her first, but then she complains that I’m rude.

    1. CanadianDot*

      Maybe stop cleaning up her messes? Or start keeping a timeline and records of what was messed up, how it affected your work, and how you worked with her to try and resolve it without success? Just complaining about things doesn’t give your manager any real actionable reason to escalate things. Document everything.

    2. fposte*

      This is kind of like the bad boss question upthread. What you take to your boss isn’t that Jane complains you’re rude or that she ignores things, it’s that the workflow is structured so that Jane handles the calls, and when she takes the afternoon off without arranging for coverage, it’s affected your productivity, and though you’ve asked her to inform you in advance, it’s still not happening. Does boss have suggestions for approaching this problem?

      Remember, the point of the discussion isn’t “Jane sucks,” it’s “How do you want me to deal with this obstacle to my work?”

    3. Really?*

      “I realize I have a more important job than her” Wow. That’s a nice attitude to have.

      1. Bea W*

        No kidding! This person has not yet figured out how essential secretary/admin workers are in the workplace.

        U. Girl I wonder if some of the issue with it not being addressed is because it is coming across bitter and rude with a touch of pretensious “my job is more important”. If you go into a conversation with anyone with that attitude, it reveals itself pretty quickly even if you think it’s not.

        Stop cleaning up her messes. When you do that, it’s actually hurting your case because there are no consequences for the mistakes someone else makes. The secretary can’t own things that other people are choosing to own for her. When you get something from her that is not satisfactory or has mistakes, hand it back to her, explain the issue, and tell her correct them every time. If you need to wait on her to finish your work, and she’s not getting it to you without it being a mess, then you can bring that to your to work out a solution. Don’t continue to clean up the mess then complain to your manager.

  116. harryv*

    At what point do you say, “forget this!” and completely thrash your resume and start from scratch? I have 15 years of experience with 13 in leadership position. Although my job is in a IT niche, it has become very difficult to score any interviews. In the past 6 months, I got 3 phone interviews and none in person. I show much better in person than I am over the phone.

    Thoughts?

    1. Sascha*

      Is your resume clear about what exactly you do? Have you had some people read it over and then ask them describe your role, as they understand it from your resume?

      I say this because I have nearly 10 years of IT experience with skills in a lot of different areas, and I thought my resume was clear about what I did. But then a recruiter contacted me and said she was interested, but couldn’t understand my role at my current workplace. I tried to explain that it was because I am the most competent tech person in my department, so I basically get all the tech projects (I’m a system admin, the support team lead, a business analyst, the webmaster…I could go on). So anyway, this makes me think that maybe I need to scale back my resume a lot and really tailor it to each position I’m applying for, instead of going for the “SEE HOW TECHNICAL I AM WITH ALL MY TECHIE SKILLS” approach. You may or may not be doing this, but my thought is, if you come off better in person than on paper or the phone, it may be your resume is confusing.

      1. harryv*

        Thanks.. your comment helps. That may be the problem. I have had HR friends review it in the past and it is clear to me what I put but similar to you, I also have a hand in a lot of different areas from pre-sales to operations. I’m thinking I need to section off my JD and accomplishments then rotate it for different jobs I apply to.

  117. Pearl*

    I am so sick of my coworker’s conspiracy rants at work. Nothing stops them. I can leave the room and she will keep talking while I’m gone until I come back, completely alone! Every single thing in the world is a conspiracy. Ingredients in our food are conspiracies. Our clock being slow is a conspiracy (and not just an old clock).

    I am the only person she does this to. She knows that everyone else in the organization is superior to us and would not react well to her ranting for 30 minutes at a time about government chips. I’ve tried asking her to stop, telling her to stop, redirecting the conversation, leaving the room, and am now just trying to ignore her.

    It’s just really frustrating and makes work unpleasant. I dread the days we’re alone in the office now. But she still acts normally around everyone else and gets her work done, and I still get my work done too, so it’s not actually affecting anything other than my irritation levels.

    1. GOG11*

      This is so bizarre. I don’t have any real advice for you, but the stuff she’s obsessing over sounds like something out of an episode of Dr. Who. If she’s a fan, you could try diverting her attention with Tardis sounds long enough to sneak away….

    2. pony tailed wonder*

      A mean part of me wants me to get you to tell her that you used to work for the government and that you are reporting to them everything she says. . .

      1. pony tailed wonder*

        But seriously, let your boss know what is happening and what steps you have already taken and ask what you can do next. Is is possible to get your desk relocated?

      2. Charlotte Collins*

        Start pretending to whisper into your cuff after every one of her rants. Then hurriedly stop and act guilty once she notices.

        Otherwise, get headphone or your desk moved if either (or both) is possible.

    3. Sara*

      A woman I interned with a few years back was like this. It wasn’t so bad at first – we didn’t work in the same department, so I only saw her/was subjected to her nonsense during interns-only training sessions – but I swear that she started ramping it up after about the second week. It was like she had minimum daily requirements for how much nonsense she had to share with me. Eventually I told her that I thought she needed to start educating herself using legitimate sources of information (i.e. not YouTube videos or websites devoted to conspiracy theories), and that until she did so, I wasn’t going to engage in conversations with her that didn’t pertain exclusively to our intern duties. And after that, I proceeded to literally walk away from her every time she started talking about anything other than work. It worked, in that she basically stopped talking to me at all, which I had absolutely no problem with.

  118. TinyPjM*

    Can I just vent, briefly?

    Alright…so our office takes up several floors, that require internal staircases with multiple doors that require card passes to enter. This is because we share a large office building with many other companies. It’s a bit annoying when you’re juggling a laptop etc, but it’s okay. The other day, laptop in arms, I was coming up from let’s call it floor 10, to go to floor 12. Someone stopped on the landing for floor 11, and opened the door for me to go through. I said “Oh! Thank you, I’m actually going up one more!” in a normal, polite tone, because I did appreciate the gesture! This guy responded with a frown and said “Well screw you then, damn!” and slammed the door. I was so shocked I just stood there thinking “what the quack, what the quack” before composing myself and continuing up the stairs.

    WHO DOES THIS!? *throws hands up in frustration*

    1. fposte*

      An idiot. Can’t think of anything else you could have done, save for exiting to a floor you didn’t want to be on, that would have pleased him.

    3. Bangs not Fringe*

      Did they say it as a joke? I don’t mean to say that that’s ok. Just that maybe they thought they were being “cute” or funnyhaha.

      Either way that is a super creepy way to act towards someone, especially someone you don’t know.

    4. BRR*

      If he wasn’t trying to joke WTF?!? Clearly you were supposed to go to the wrong floor.

    5. Clever Name*

      Who does this? The type of person who zooms around you on the road and cuts you off (while flipping the bird, of course).

  119. Defined by old grades?*

    Hoping someone can help me out there because this is just causing so much agony in my life.

    How do you deal with having a less than ideal academic record/transcript?

    I failed a bunch of college classes right out of school…..quit, went back, quit again…..and then FINALLY went back to school as a 28 year old with my head screwed on, my depression issues under control and with medication for it and with a semester to go, have a great GPA (converts to about a 3.8 on the 4.0 scale).

    But I’m terrified that these old grades define me even if they are now more than 10 years old. I’m scared no employer will want to touch me with such a messed up transcript. I’m scared no grad school will touch me. I already can’t apply for a scholarship of my dreams because you have to have a history of ‘academic excellence’ and I don’t have that. I’m so mad I went back to the same school instead of going to a new school with a new transcript but I couldn’t afford to move to another state for school.

    I’m so mad at myself and I wish I knew how to deal with this because right now I feel like my only options for the future are call centres because I ruined my own life at 19 :(

    1. Sascha*

      1. Most employers don’t care, especially for courses that are over 10 years old. They only care that you got the degree…and even then, good employers care more about your experience and personality than your degree.

      2. Most graduate programs want your money and will do what it takes to get you signed on. I got into a grad program with an abysmal score on the math portion of my GMAT and all D’s in my math classes – like there are a third graders that are better at math than me. The worst of it was I was put on “probation” for my first semester which just meant I had to earn nothing lower than a B.

      3. You made some mistakes early in your academic career…lots of people do that. But you now have a 3.8 and that is impressive. It shows that while you had some issues when you were younger, you are now committed to excellence and achieving it.

      You can do it! I know it’s hard to shake those feelings of failure, like you ruined your life…but you are here now, choosing to do well and succeeding. There will be some employers and schools who will reject you for various reasons, and that’s okay. There will be others that would love to have you. Just keep trying!

    2. University Girl*

      Have you tried applying for academic forgiveness? Usually this would happen right after you come back and it requires you to be gone for a certain amount of time, but you should check into it. I’d take a look at you college’s catalog or ask the Registrar.

    3. Christy*

      Grades don’t define you at all. Do jobs even see transcripts? (That’s a real question to the commentariat.) And do you even want to go to grad school? I feel like almost everyone would love a good turn-around story.

      1. Sascha*

        Universities will often ask for transcripts during job applications, but I think it depends on the department and the job for how much the hiring manager might care. My job – I don’t even care if someone has a degree or not. A research assistant – probably would care more about grades in science and math, etc.

        1. fposte*

          And even those that ask for transcripts aren’t really looking at the history of the grades.

          1. fposte*

            Sorry, I didn’t mean no place looks at the grades, just that the people who (weirdly, IMHO) ask for a transcript are often just verifying graduation, etc., not looking to grill you on your freshman comp grade.

      2. University Girl*

        Most places will only need to verify that you graduated with a degree unless you’re applying for a very technical field where they want to know that you’ve done well (this is mostly for grad school)

      3. K*

        LastJob asked for my transcripts, but it was my first job out of grad school and in the sciences.

      4. Sara*

        Most employers in my field require transcripts as part of the standard application package, but my perception is that this is for degree verification as opposed to evaluation of a candidate’s suitability for the position. I’d have to assume that candidates who are otherwise well-qualified wouldn’t be dinged for low grades in college, especially if those were long in the past.

    4. fposte*

      Well, most employers aren’t going to care. You graduated, box ticked, end of conversation. The gap between start and finish is likelier to raise questions than early grades, but I don’t think that’s going to come up all that often either.

      Grad school is a different question, but even there most grad schools have waivers and appeals, and a total 3.8 is going to be fine at a lot of places. I also hope you checked with the folks offering the scholarship and didn’t self-select out, because I don’t think you automatically know what they mean by “academic excellence” and you do seem to want to punish yourself disproportionately.

      And, on the last, it might be worth talking to a therapist. Your situation really isn’t hugely uncommon, and I think you’re taking it as more limiting than it’s likely to be. Good luck to you!

      1. Sascha*

        Re: academic excellence, fposte makes a good point. My understanding is that programs care more about your grades in specific courses related to the program than just the basics. Say you’re planning on getting an MA in English, but your upper level English courses have bad grades – that’s a problem. But bad grades in freshman math? No issue.

        So yes please check with the people offering the scholarship to find out exactly what they are looking for!

    5. super anon*

      I work at a major university – apply for the scholarship anyway. And apply to grad school too.

      Most scholarships will allow you to write a statement of intent, in it you can address your transcript, and say what happened, and how you overcame your difficulties and got your degree. Often (for the scholarships I oversee anyway), we look at academic history, but we take so many other things into account that the transcript is only one piece of the entire picture. It’s also possible that “academic excellence” isn’t totally defined by grades – you can show it by having done extracurricular work, having gone on exchange – hell, you’ve shown it by turning your entire transcript around and having done it with a 3.8 gpa!

      for grad school, your grades are one component, but often if you’ve had a break from school and go back, they’ll weigh your work/life experience more heavily than your undergrad gpa. i highly suggest talking with the advisors from the programs you want to apply to to get a better idea of where you stand and what you can do/work on to get in. also, most grad programs aren’t going to care about failing/poor grades in lower level classes

      one quick story, i came across a student once who failed her first 2 years of university – i mean, required to withdraw from the uni, had a single digit gpa level of failing. she left for 2 years and came back and totally turned it around – she went from single digit gpa to a 3.8 for all of her years of classes. she eventually did her masters and got a phd.

      we all make mistakes, but you can bounce back from them! don’t give up, and trust, you haven’t ruined your life at all. :)

    6. Ad Astra*

      What field are you hoping to get into? Since graduation, I have been asked for a college transcript exactly zero times. I have been asked about my college GPA exactly zero times.

      Grad schools really do care about your grades, so that could be an issue. But most employers don’t care at all.

    7. Jillociraptor*

      As a hiring manager, I actually have a pretty positive take on your story. I see persistence, perseverance, and a willingness to improve yourself and your environment to achieve your goals. Especially if you can address the issue in a cover letter or statement of purpose, I don’t think it’s particularly likely that people will read your academic experience in a negative light. You’re graduating with a really strong GPA, and clear evidence that you will persevere through really difficult challenges. I don’t think you’re giving yourself enough credit!

  120. nicolefromqueens*

    I keep forgetting my questions! One question:

    I work as a permatemp for a government agency. I’m here about 20 months and my unit has about 5 people besides my manager (it’s been fluctuating). My official title is “Office Assistant”, but everything that I do is data entry and reviewing/quality control, or maintaining order. OA is the official title of all the temps here, even though some of them do strictly customer service, making appointments, etc.

    I basically serve as a team leader, maintaining basic archival lists (it’s a bit more complicated than it sounds), serving as the first troubleshooter for minor tech problems, making sure people are supplied, training new temps (which can be a revolving door sometimes), giving input to my manager regarding work and staff, and help coordinate the everyday workflow. Everyone has varying levels of abilities and needs, so this is certainly no easy task for someone so new.

    I really need to take home more than $430 a week in this city. So to find a second job, I’d like my title to be in line with my work. The official permanent title for what I started as is “Clerical Aide”, but now I’m really more “Principal Administrative Assistant”. Should I change the title on my resume, and explain the discretion at a later stage, or is this totally off-limits? I know having or not having a certain title can make a difference in a job search sometimes, unfortunately. I’m certain my manager would back me up here.

    1. Treena*

      Don’t focus on the title. If I saw what you’re describing here, it’s clear that you’re mis-titled. It happens all the time. Or people have weird titles that are super not descriptive of what they actually do.

      Try creating a profile section that includes some of these accomplishments so that’s the first thing they see, instead of your latest job title.

  121. That Marketing Chick*

    That moment when you realize that “EMEA” and “APAC” are part of your everyday vocabulary and are so thankful you left your last job (regional healthcare marketing) for your new job (global technology marketing)!

  122. NicoleK*

    WTF new coworker story of the week. So new coworker canned her intern and is interviewing for a replacement. In previous conversations, she had mentioned turning over all grant reporting data responsibilities over to the replacement so she can spend all her time on process improvement and building a database (essentially so she can spend all her time on tasks she enjoys). The candidate she had in mind is a friend/acquaintance of hers. In the interview, when asked about key challenges of the position. He said that numbers would be a challenge. His title will be DATA ANALYST and he will be taking over all the reporting responsibilities???!!! After the interview concluded, she had him wait while she has a debriefing session with myself and another manager. We shared some of our key concerns. As I was expecting her to hire him anyway, I thought that was that. I was wrong!! She sends two follow up emails after the interview. In the first email, she detailed how she went back to the candidate, shared our main concerns with him, and provided counterpoint arguments bullet point by bullet point. Second email, she laid out his reasoning for why he responded that he had issues with numbers. OMG. I’m in the twilight zone and I can’t get out. Who does this??!!!

    1. fposte*

      Somebody who desperately wants both validation and the hire she wants. I don’t know why your office has given her hiring authority in this case, but they have. I’d limit my involvement and face the possibility that funding stream is going to be struggling.

      1. NicoleK*

        My boss seems to let her do whatever she wants. This position reports to her so she had total hiring authority. I wish I could limit my face time with him and her but I need to work with both of them. Ugh. I was not expecting her to run to him immediately and share all our concerns with him. But that’s essentially what she did. She had asked him to wait in the interview room. After we debriefed, she went back to the interview room and discussed everything (all the concerns that were brought up) with him. She offered him the position on the spot (no surprise here…he was always the chosen one to begin with). Then typed up the extra long explanation detailing all the concerns x, y, and z. and the reason why he said x, y, and z. It was just truly bizarre.

        When I have concerns about my new hire, I monitor the situation and address it as it arises. I don’t share them with the applicant on the spot during the interview (especially feedback provided by others).

    2. yep*

      I’m convinced there are really no jobs out here, just holding spots til people squeeze in friends. Sorry feeling jaded…
      Sounds like she’s trying to justify her soon hire.

    3. Lizzy*

      I vaguely remember reading your previous comments last week. So she hired an intern and let this poor person be a holdover until she could hire a friend? I would be crushed if I were in her former intern.

  123. YandO*

    I just found out that my employer is offering my replacement more money (11%) and more vacation time (double) after they told me “I am sorry we could not pay you more” when I gave my notice. They on purpose would not do a review with me so I would not ask for more money. They kept me guessing whether they thought I was doing a good job. I chose not to bring it up because I knew was going to leave soon.

    This does not matter anymore, I am leaving in a few weeks but it validates everything for me. When they were hiring me they were choosing between me and my replacement and they picked me. They said because I was a better suited/qualified candidate. I think I was just cheaper.

    When potential employers ask “what matters to you?”, you are never supposed to say money. But what matters to them? Money. It i snot keeping excellent employees, it is not being reasonable, it is not inspiring good will. MONEY.

    I would not stay here even if they gave me a raise because they suck, but their lies and deception, their manipulation and awfulness, their sexism, their harassment in form of jokes would not be worth it for any money.

    2. T3k*

      I feel for you. I was laid off from my last job due to “financial difficulties” and then 2 months later, they hire on the last hire there for full time, and I just know they basically gave her my salary on top of what she was making while I was there.

  124. yep*

    Our company has a cell phone policy that our supervisor put in place 2 years ago. One of the policies is that texting is not an acceptable form of communication. Well this supervisor has text and facebook us since this policy went into effect. She text reminders about her not coming in, or another staff member not coming, or little reminders about stuff she may have forgotten. For instance, she sent out a group text reminder us about appropriate work attire for an event that would be happening the next day. Needless to say, I along with others are annoyed. One person pays per text, others like me think its a double standard and also not professional. So recently purposefully decided to break the rule and text her that I would be running late. Within a few minutes she text me back explaining texting was not a acceptable form of communication. I thanked her for clearing up the policy. A week later, I was called into her office and written up. I told her she had text me so I thought it was ok. (Why should there be a double standard)…anyways after talking to other coworkers, come to find out they showed me texts where they texted her and said they were running late or one even called ‘text’ out of work. It’s known that she likes to pick and choose people to ride over various stuff. Should I call her out on this or let it go? What should I do, if she text or Facebook me again about work related stuff?

    1. Katie the Fed*

      She’s your boss. Calling her out on it isn’t going to help anything. It’ll only hurt you, especially if she already has it out for you. Focus on the big picture – you’re getting the information she’s sending you. And for your part, don’t text. Yes it’s a double standard but not really a big deal.

    2. Jennifer*

      The rule is: bosses can do whatever they like. You are a peon and can’t. The end.

      And if she texts you, you will have to pick up a phone and call her back about her text. Ridiculous, but she has the power so you have to do as she says, no matter how stupid.

      1. yep*

        Thanks for your advice but nope, I will not confirm via text whether I got her info or not. Double standards causes all kinds of problems and its my phone. I will just continue to document her inconsistencies should I have a future problems being written up.

        1. yep*

          ****I’m not going to confirm by calling her to let her know I received the text*** matter of fact I’m thinking about creating an auto response text just for her. Petty. But petty is as petty does. I’ll be petty on this one.

    3. Mephyle*

      Reply to her texts each and every one only with the following text: “Texting is not an acceptable form of communication.”

  125. Sam*

    We’re in the middle of panel interviews for my department and I have a coworker that constantly introduces me to potential teammates as “the assistant”, “the help” or “no-one-really-knows-what-she-does”. It’s bizarre because a.) we have an assistant and b.) I am not nor have I ever been the assistant for the group. We have the same level job, same boss, but completely different roles .

    Sometimes I can tag on to her statement gracefully and clarify (“I think what Tammy means, is I’ve proofread some of their documentation but I actually work on software integration…”). Other times another teammate is able to share a project that I managed and the potential new hire “gets it”.

    I brought it to my boss’ attention in passing, which led to my boss doing introductions but the second my boss leaves the room for Q&A, she finds a way to throw the statement in there. My gut is saying bring it back up to my boss but it sounds petty (because at the end new people get that I’m not the assistant). Bringing it up to the coworker seems weird too (although in the end, she’s the one that looks bad).

    1. pony tailed wonder*

      Why not ask her why she introduces you as her assistant? Do it in private when you have a chance. If she still persists, call her on it in a meeting in a friendly joking manner one time. If she does it again, ask her why she does that right after she does that in a meeting with other people present.

      1. HeyNonnyNonny*

        Yes to this. And then you can escalate to being more blunt in the moment, “I’m afraid Tammy is mistaken, I’m not an assistant.”

        1. BRR*

          I wouldn’t want to escalate it in an interview because it could turn off good applicants.

          1. fposte*

            Good point. But I think you can give an “Oh, that Tammy” smile and say “Don’t mind her–I’m the Marketing VP, and it’s nice to meet you. Here’s my card.”

            1. BRR*

              By escalate I just meant not make it more tense. You can still correct without escalating. Your “Don’t mind her–I’m the Marketing VP, and it’s nice to meet you. Here’s my card.” is perfect.

              1. fposte*

                Oh, I knew what you mean, and I think you were right–you don’t want to look like you’re sibling-squabbling when you’re interviewing.

          2. Sam*

            Agreed, I don’t want to freak out a good hire and lead them to believe we’re nuts but at the same time maybe just react similar to HeyNonnyNonny – calm but in the moment and if she throws it in, talk to her after.

    2. Katie the Fed*

      I’d look at her like she was nuts, like she just said “Sam is the team rooster” and respond accordingly in the moment. “I’m actually the ___, not the assistant.” If she responds take control and say “let’s discuss this after the interview.”

    3. MsM*

      I’d be so tempted to say, “Actually, you’re the only one who seems to have a problem remembering my title.” Any chance you can pre-empt her by just getting up when she walks over, holding out your hand to the new person, and saying “Hi, I’m Sam, the Teapot Coordinator [insert short description here of what that involves],” rather than waiting for her to do it?

      1. Natalie*

        Except it sounds like Tammy makes a point to shoehorn it in even when the boss introduced OP by their correct title.

        I know it will be uncomfortable, but I think you will have to speak to her directly if you want it to stop. But if you can tolerate her weirdness around this, I like the previous suggestions of acting like she’s making a joke.

  126. pony tailed wonder*

    I have an idea for an app that I think is needed. Can anyone take this idea and just run with it? No need to involve me in anything after this, no money or anything. I wasn’t sure if this should go in Friday’s section or Sunday’s so I just guessed Friday.

    I work at high school graduation ceremonies at the local university. The high schools rent out our venue and it is a nice ceremony for all involved – usually. I think there could be an app for the ceremony. You can grab a program from other graduation ceremonies and see what they list. There are just so many questions guests ask at these and the seniors get packets of information and few pass it along to their parents. I would like an app with these features

    -list of graduates in order.

    -list of valedictorians, etc.

    -list of the school board and other high school authorities.

    -list of who is speaking and when.

    -link to area restaurants.

    -link to area hotels.

    -parking lot map.

    -where to park for special needs.

    -where to sit for special needs (I swear every retirement home in town is emptied out on these days).

    -map of the campus where the ceremony is being held.

    -where you can get photos or videos of the ceremony.

    -where you can buy flowers for the graduates.

    -is there an ATM at the venue?

    -can you bring in your own food and drinks or will their be a concession stand?

    -area for local advertising (this is where I think the money could come in at).

    -link to school online yearbook if they have one.

    -link to the local paper if they do an annual photo display of the senior class and how to order a copy of the newspaper for that day.

    -link to what the schools require the graduates to wear under their robes (I have seen many turned away if they are not wearing the correct white collared shirt and tie, they usually are scrambling in tears in the audience to see if they can literally buy the shirt off of someone’s back).

    -any other rules the schools want followed at the ceremony- usually it is no lasers, no balloon bouquets (they block the view), and no airhorns, but sometimes beach balls are banned as well.

    -link to where your party is going to meet up in the venue after the event – there are usually a lot of people wandering around looking for their kids afterwards so saying something like ‘we will all meet under the oak tree in front afterwards’ is good.

    -does the venue allow you to save seats?

    -link to add cell phone numbers of the members of your party – a lot of people ask us to watch out for ‘Aunt So and So’ and tell them that that are in a certain section – we have no idea what this aunt looks like.

    I am sure that there are more things to add.

    1. yep*

      Wow great idea! Like a combination of the graduation program and different resources about the venue. I just had 2 kid graduates these past couple of years and this sounds like it would be useful.

    2. Treena*

      I think the best bet is a website that allows schools to upload their info, and then the school can provide the link easier than a physical packet and it’s easier to forward to other relatives. I’d think enough people going to a graduation wouldn’t have a smartphone or even want to download an app just for this one random event. It seems like you want a solution that helps you (get less questions) but that solution is to make the information more prolific for people to get on their own. Also, from a security perspective, there’s no way I’d want my kid’s name on an app that anyone could see!

      1. Jennifer*

        Yeah, I wouldn’t download an app for one event. My phone is full.
        This is pretty much what a webpage should do.

      2. yep*

        You do realize your child name will appear on graduation programs handed out to people when they graduate.

        1. Treena*

          Right, but only to the people who are physically there at the event. With an app, it would either be accessible to anyone who could find it. And if you add a password, that’s just one more layer of people not using it.

    3. pony tailed wonder*

      It’s more needed for the handicapped guests. The schools tell the kids that if they have a guest that has special needs, that we have a parking lot and wheelchair service set up just for them. And yet, each and every ceremony, we have countless elderly and handicapped people trying to get up the stairs. We are on a hill – one side has stairs, the other side is level and has small ramps where needed.

      Plus you would not believe how many times we have to throw away whole cartons of unused programs and how one high school consistently never has enough for even half of the crowd. Just to have less reliance on paper programs would be nicer for the environment.

      p.s. If you have to bring a special needs person to a graduation ceremony, come very early. Those seats run out fast, everyone’s elderly relatives come for these events and a lot of them need the extra accommodations.

      1. Treena*

        I really think the best solutions are more simple than an app. For the stairs, can’t there be a nice sign with an arrow at the bottom of the stairs indicating there’s a ramp? Or signage on the route to the parking lots directing them to the special parking lot? Honestly, is it really the graduates’ job to direct their guests? It really seems like something the venue should handle.

        I don’t have kids, but if a parent was told there aren’t printed programs to save the environment, I’m guessing you’d have a major problem on your hands. That’s a major item in the scrapbook. Also, is that even in the venue’s purview? It sounds like the schools are responsible for ordering them anyways. And I sure hope you’re recycling them instead of throwing them out!

        1. pony tailed wonder*

          I think you are right about a website rather than an app. Thanks for clarifying why :)

          And the signage (larger trailer sized electronic signs) and about a dozen police officers to direct people are out there except people just don’t seem to want to follow the signs or hand signals from the cops. I just think one more layer of ‘hey – this is the best way to do this stuff’ would be nice.

          We do recycle them but the guesses on how many are needed and how many the school orders are almost always off for two school districts.

          1. New guy*

            There is an app called guidebook, and probably plenty of others like it, that as far as I can tell is basically a template for events. I’m attending a three-day training, and the guidebook for my event has the maps, seminar times, contact information, etc. Something like this would probably meet your needs, and while people need to download it to their phone, it’s not a one-and-done.

  127. Calla*

    I hope I’m not too late!

    “What would you do” question:

    You are hopefully about to leave your current company. While looking for something (legit), you discover that the HR folder on your company server is completely open to everyone, including offer letters. Before letting HR know, you peek at a few and discover that the single male in your position is making more than TWICE (in some cases, nearly THREE TIMES) what the multiple women in the same position are. You know for a fact the women have more experience, work more intensely, and DID negotiate salary, while he did not (negotiation is recorded). He does not have a more advanced degree or anything that would justify being paid somewhat more, let alone 2-3 times more.

    What do you do with this info?

    1. HeyNonnyNonny*

      I would definitely say something. But of course IANAL, etc. But surely there’s a subtle way to hint that these women should open a discussion about pay disparities.

      1. Calla*

        The women have been told (one of the others saw the same offer letter I did, and told the others), and I know one of them is going to mention it to her boss, who is a very reasonable person.

        1. fposte*

          That sounds like a good plan, and it’s also good that more than one person saw this.

          1. Calla*

            We also got a screenshot of it, though I’m not broadcasting that yet since it was SUPPOSED to be protected!

    2. fposte*

      Oh, very tricky–I’ll be interested to see the responses!

      I think I’d be most likely to say something if I was either firmly at the company, and therefore really was invested in awareness and possible change, or headed out the door, so I’d suffer no repercussions. You’re sort of in between the two.

      The other thing is that it’s a single man, not a bunch of men vs. a bunch of women. So while it’s favoritism, it’s not necessarily illegal favoritism–he could be somebody’s son-in-law or nephew or something.

      I could see, assuming an absence of known craziness, talking face to face with HR. “I shouldn’t have looked [though if they focus on that as the problem, note that the root cause is their failure to adequately protect confidential information], but I was really disturbed by this egregious disparity, and it doesn’t seem like the kind of thing an ethical organization would do. I just wanted you to know this [if you’re going] or I’m hoping this is a concern you will be able to respond to [if you’re staying].”

      But I really want to hear what other people say. Wow.

      1. Calla*

        Yeah, I’m very much regretting I didn’t have time to poke at other positions and see if it was a trend. That said, I do know that while this guy was an employee referral, that only results in a one-time bonus, and he’s not related to anyone at the company and def not the person who hired him/pays him.

        If I do leave soon and get an exit interview, I’m definitely thinking of mentioning it there.

    3. Apollo Warbucks*

      I would definitely say something, there are reasons other than sexism that could explain the differnece in pay, but the pay structure should stand scrutiny.

      The negotiating could be a red herring it might be that in a phone screning he says buy bottom line is x and the company came back and met that and it’s worth looking to the market to see what the woman could get elsewhere as that provides a better context for the conversations. Are the woman truly being under paid or is the guy really lucky to be an are normally who’s really overpaid.

      1. Calla*

        The guy’s salary is WAY over the average for this position, and the women’s is on the lower end but not extremely underpaid.

        For more context: this is an administrative assistant position, the women make around 40k (after negotiation, initial offer was 30-35k for most) and this guy is making 100k. He is making 2.5x more than the female admin who supports the exact same person to a greater extent.

        1. fposte*

          I think that it’s legitimate to raise the question. I also think it’s important to be willing to hear an answer, which it sounds like you and your co-workers are doing a good job on so far.

          The other problem is, now that you’ve given details, that it’s not a situation where bumping the women’s salaries up is a viable corrective.

          1. Calla*

            Yeah, we are willing to accept there is a legitimate reason if it exists, but after racking our brains it’s hard to come up with one on our own, since we know it’s none of the usual reasons given (more experience, women don’t negotiate, etc).

            It’s just such a shocking situation given HOW MUCH more he is being paid! If it was 5-10k more, okay, fine. But 100k!

            1. fposte*

              Yeah, when you explained I was pretty startled. And it makes me wonder what they’d do–they can’t fairly halve his salary and aren’t going to give everybody else $100k.

              If it was just sexism, that’s some of the more expensive sexism I’ve encountered.

              1. Calla*

                Something that makes it even odder is that we are in the midst of financial problems including layoffs (big one around February of this year, smaller round last month, and people are expecting another small round soon) and he was hired, at that salary, like only a month after the first big round.

                1. fposte*

                  Holy crap. No wonder they’re having financial problems if that’s how they allot money.

            2. BRR*

              Sounds shady. Is it possible he was paid a lot in his previous position? That’s the only other thing I could think of but twice as much is insane.

              1. Calla*

                Hmm, that IS a possibility–but yeah, still insane to pay him that much, especially since he had NO admin experience prior to this, so it’s not like he was an admin extraordinaire we just absolutely needed at all costs.

              2. Ruffingit*

                Makes me wonder if he has some inside information on the person/people who decide salary because damn!! 100k…that is crazy.

                1. Calla*

                  Haha, yeah, we’ve been joking about how he must have blackmail material or something. We think the salary decision came straight from the CEO/CTO which is interesting.

    4. Relosa*

      This reminds me of a place I used to work at that was adamant about handling things confidentially. To the point that if you had documents pertaining to a particular person in a public place, that they were supposed to be turned face down or put into a folder (I highly agreed with this practice and still use it). The point of it was that it wasn’t technically against the rules or the law if a third party unrelated to the employee saw it, as long as it didn’t pertain to protected class stuff. So if information got out, myself as the supervisor was directly responsible for it.

      In your case, HR didn’t turn over their paper or hide it in a file. Absolutely say something.

    5. Calla*

      UPDATE: I discovered that this guy (a) listed a Coursera course under his education as if he actually attended and got a degree at the university hosting the course; (b) very recently was running a pick-up artist advice group. Maybe he’s giving someone important lady advice. IDEK.

  128. Rye-Ann*

    Sorry for posting this separately, but another question just came up.

    I recently applied for, interviewed at, and got rejected by Company A. Now I see another posting at A that I could apply for on Website X, but the post doesn’t actually say who the contact person is. Normally I would just address the cover letter to a “hiring manager,” but this time, I think I know who it is! I’ve seen many other postings on Website Y by this company who all have the same person listed as the contact (and it’s the same person as in the position I originally interviewed for). Website X doesn’t list the contact info, and the position I want to apply for isn’t posted on Website Y. Maybe I’m overthinking this, but should I address it to whom I think is the contact person, or just say Hiring Manager?

  129. Cath in Canada*

    A company I used to work for just got a hilariously bad review on Glassdoor. I took screenshots because it was worthy of sharing with former colleagues and will probably get deleted. Some excerpts:

    “The only good thing about this company is its coffee machines!”

    “Next time, I’d rather find a job in hell!”

    It wasn’t *that* bad…

  130. Tagg*

    I don’t know if this is too off topic, but those of you who work in healthcare – how do you cope with getting attached to patients? What I mean by that – we just had the sweetest little old lady come into our office, an absolute delight, and it ended up that she had to be admitted to the hospital for heart failure. As she was waiting for me to check her out, she said “I’ve had a good eighty-eight years…” and it broke my heart.

    And earlier today, we had a patient with her absolutely adorable two-year-old son. She was so nice. And she’d just been diagnosed with breast cancer.

    I’ve been in this industry for four, almost five, years. I don’t know how much longer I can do it, at least when it comes to patient-facing positions. It’s just too hard.

    1. FurnitureLady*

      I don’t work in patient facing healthcare, but I think this question says a lot about your high level of compassion and empathy – you must be a great caregiver! I’m guessing most people who work with patients struggle with this – do you have any coworker or supervisor you could ask for advice? Anyway, I always hope I get someone who really cares when I’m at the doc, so I’m guessing your patients really appreciate you!

    2. TJoie*

      A friend of mine works in hospice… she struggles with this all the time. She told me she would rather be herself (and get attached to patients) than try to distance herself… But the past couple years (out of 10+ years) has really taken a toll on her.

      I got too attached when I was just a pharmacy technician at a CVS near older residents… I can’t even imagine what you’re going through.

      *hugs*

  131. Scotty_Smalls*

    So I got called in for a 2nd interview this week. Yay!!! I’m debating what to write in the thank you/follow up emails. I am beating myself up for my response to “how do you organize?” I basically said that I keep everything on my phone and that I write some stuff down to help remember it better. The thing is I’m very organized, I keep my personal papers in a filing cabinet divided by category and sorted by date. Is that something I can add in, or does it just look desperate to fix something? If I write something like that, should I just address it to the person who asked the question? Or both interviewers?

    I feel like I’m totally off track though. They might like ideas about how the position can reach its goals instead, is that better? I’m just stumped on what I can suggest since I am looking to switch fields and I’m new to the field.

    1. CMT*

      Unless being organized is the most important, vital aspect of this job, I think it would look weird if you tried to add info about that question in your thank you not.

    2. catsAreCool*

      I think Alison answered a question about bringing something up in a thank you letter. I think the idea was to write something that was fairly short and casual.

  132. Juniel*

    I don’t generally comment over here but I’m hoping somebody has some input. My younger sister just finished her bachelor’s degree and is immediately going into graduate school (it’s a field where she does need a master’s degree to really do anything, but that’s the terminal degree for the field and because she has her bachelor’s in the same field she’s considered “advanced placement” which makes program is shorter, so she’s just knocking it out now because it’s a year, maybe two if she steps down to half-time). Because she’s stepping up into graduate school she’s trying to make a move from working minimum wage part-time jobs to something with perhaps slightly better pay, full-time — but something reliably 9:00AM to 5:00PM (or thereabouts) because her classes are evenings.

    I encouraged her to go after things in her field now that she has a degree in it, but also reception/clerical jobs because she has good skills for that role that haven’t necessarily been demonstrated professionally but should be capitalized on and they are generally fairly steady hours. I worked with her on her resume and cover letter (thanks, AAM!), had her read a lot of very helpful posts and comments here that helped me get my current position, played up the absolutely super-amazing internship she had all of last school year to steer things a bit away from the usual retail stuff, and she’s made an incredible number of submissions (she’s been very aggressive about finding and pursuing leads that look interesting to her).

    You guys, this poor girl is having absolutely NO luck. She’s had a few interviews, but none resulting in offers and nobody has had any particularly substantial feedback for her when she’s reached out to thank them for their time and ask (the one person who did give her any said “no, you did fine! You were very personable and articulate.” That’s it). She’s taking it very hard, being the model student with lots of recognition in undergrad who’s never had any trouble finding work before. I really don’t know what else I can possibly do to help steer her, or really what else she can do for herself. By all accounts, she’s done everything “right,” she’s just had really rotten luck. I realize I’m biased because it’s ~my baby sister~ and all, but I’ve got nothing!

    Advice and pep talks gratefully accepted. She’s such a good kid having such a hard time.

    1. fposte*

      Aw, I’m sorry; that’s hard. Why is she steering away from the usual retail stuff if that’s what she’s got mileage on, though? It’s going to be a lot harder to find a job that she has no employment history pointing her toward than one she’s already done.

      1. Juniel*

        Frankly, two reasons:

        1. Because that’s all her resume is: retail, and her super internship. She wants to branch out so that she can start capitalizing on and providing professional evidence of other skills she has. I think if she absolutely has no other choice and her savings run down to the point where she has to take absolutely anything, she’ll go back to retail, but she really wants to prove herself in another area and start building evidence of paid experience with those skills.
        2. She’s enjoyed where she’s worked over the last four years and had great supervisors, but it’s been an ongoing struggle with scheduling management because they would regularly try to schedule her during class times, even after assuring her that they’d work around her schedule and her making a gargantuan effort to keep her schedule as close to the same as possible every semester (recent grads may know this struggle). She needs something with a very steady work window that doesn’t move around too much and unfortunately, retail isn’t it.

        1. fposte*

          Yeah, then it’s going to be hard. Is her grad program brick and mortar–has she looked at postings at the school?

          1. Juniel*

            It definitely is, and she didn’t expect it to be exactly easy, but she’s used to lots of success. And when I say that, I mean that we’re seriously talking 4.0 GPA, lots of academic and student leadership awards, former multiple-term student government position success … so she’s taking it a lot harder than anticipated, and probably feels like she worked very hard for nothing right now. She’s not exactly in the doomsday state of mind yet, but there have definitely been some frustrated tears at home. It doesn’t help that even though the seniors were required to take an entire class/seminar on job searching, nobody talked with her about this. In fact, I don’t think they talked about anything useful (they told her she needed to bring a portfolio of her best academic papers to interviews. I didn’t believe it until I read the syllabus for the class. What?!). In the meantime I’ve been trying to teach her how to spin her retail skills in a way that will read as valuable in the positions she’s looking at, and really play up the internship because she had a LOT of independence and responsibility there, helping build a new entity from the ground up and she even got to co-write some policy that was adopted. I don’t totally understand her field, but I think that has some merit as a fresh undergrad who was not only trusted with that but performed above and beyond what was expected.

            Yes and yes. One of the interviews she had was with one of the departments there who needed a daytime secretary (and they give preference to graduate students, which was a plus). That was actually the person who gave her that little bit of feedback. I think there will be more opportunities for students posted closer to the start of the new semester (closer to the end of August), so she has her eyes open for those and that a position with the university might be her best bet, especially given the last bit of the paragraph above. An academic department or an entity inside the university might be able to see the level of effort and responsibility best. In the meantime, though … yeesh.

    2. Jennifer*

      Every job has a billion applicants these days and there’s always someone with more experience than you. There’s really nothing you can do about that one, unfortunately. It’s not that she’s bad, it’s that there’s always someone better.

      1. Juniel*

        Especially when you’re just a fledgling new grad! I don’t miss that at all. I told her as much, but maybe seeing it from somebody who’s not related (and therefore required to be supportive, LOL) will help a bit.

        1. BRR*

          I strongly think getting your first job is your hardest these days. It took my husband two years.

          1. Juniel*

            I think you’re probably right. It was comparatively very easy for me, but I was also VERY lucky, particularly as someone with psychology degrees. I was hired by my senior year internship full-time right before graduation, stayed there all through graduate school and got my current position within about six months of that. Of course, this was a fair few years ago (I got my master’s degree in 2012). I just hate to see her drive herself batty.

    3. Cristina in England*

      Maybe get her Alison’s e-book as a present (at the top of this page on the right), and download the interview guide too?

      What about office temping?

      I am also wondering about this: “and she’s made an incredible number of submissions (she’s been very aggressive about finding and pursuing leads that look interesting to her).” I can’t put my finger on it but this raises a flag to me. Maybe her search isn’t quite focused enough, or she is applying to jobs that really want more experience than they require in the job ad, but they’re interviewing her because she’s very impressive?

      1. Juniel*

        I think her worry with temping would be that it might be inconsistent. I’ve never done it and don’t know how it works, and one of the reasons she’s looking to move away from retail etc. is that she needs a consistent schedule. But I’ll look into it with her, and thank you for the suggestion!

        It might be the latter (in which case, I don’t really know what she could possibly do to help herself there. If they don’t say they require it in the ad, nobody really knows about it!). I don’t think she’s looking too broadly only because the positions she’s looking at have mostly the same requirements with not a whole lot of variation, although they’re in a few different environments. Most of her submissions have been to academic departments at her university for secretaries (which give preference, as I said above, to graduate students), non-medical offices, and I think one was at the technical school in the same city as her university. The only real outliers are a few nonprofit and state agencies, but she’s primarily looking at those because her bachelor’s degree is in a human services field. What she’s looking for is essentially the same (barring the stuff she’s reaching for because of her degree), just in different places.

        Then again I could be wrong — I’ve never done it myself, my degrees are both in psychology and I work for a major gaming company now running playtests so we’re on totally opposite ends of the spectrum, here!

        1. Cristina in England*

          If the consistency she needs in her schedule is simply “daytime” then temping should be ideal, but she should definitely keep mentioning her schedule needs as she has been doing.

  133. super anon*

    Anyone have any advice on managing insubordinate employees? (Not for me, but I’m curious what advice I could give my friend)

    My friend has taken on a supervisor role where she manages students working in an advising office. One of the students she manages refuses to take direction/listen to her. The employee has made it clear that she wants the job my friend has, and has gone so far as to criticize my friend’s management style, telling her that she doesn’t think she is a good manager and giving her lists of things to change, or that she could do better. If my friend tries to delegate work to her she ignores her and does what she wants to do. She is very pushy and tries to manage her peers and often undermines the direction my friend has given the other workers, causing mass confusion. This employee has only been in the role a few months – my friend worked in the office for a year and a half before becoming supervisor.

    Personally, I think this is symptomatic of a larger problems in a highly dysfunctional office. My friend’s coworker undermines her constantly in front of her employees and tries to manage her, which I think leads to the employees my friend manages not respecting her or seeing her as an actual authority figure.

    So – any advice at all? My advice to her was to get out and find somewhere less dysfunctional to work (that’s what i did!), but I figure the people of AAM may have some good ideas I can pass her way.

    1. BRR*

      There was conveniently a post about this earlier this. Link coming in a following comment.

    2. fposte*

      Does she have firing authority? Is the student hired by the semester? Has she mentioned the issue with her co-worker to her manager?

      I think it’s worth considering that your friend isn’t presenting with the authority she needs to–there are two separate people walking over her. I’m not saying that’s for sure the case, but it can’t be ruled out as a possibility from here.

      I’d tell the student employee that this behavior means that they’ll need to find other employment for the fall semester, and I’d be quietly but visibly indifferent to the shenanigans of the co-worker and insist that tasks be done on time regardless. If I couldn’t do the first and found active interfering with my productivity even after the second, I’d take it to the manager. I’d also ask to be involved in hiring in future.

    3. These are live servitors under transient control.*

      I’m guessing your friend is a “supervisor” but has no particular authority? This is pretty much my definition of Hell.

      Having dealt with this in the past, I’d guess your friend probably doesn’t want to take this to her superiors, but that’s what she needs to do. If her superiors won’t back her – then it’s time to find a different job.

  134. Windchime*

    Probably nobody will see this since I’m so far down, but I’ve mentioned a couple of times that we had a person who just could not do the job, but was a very very nice guy. Sadly, he was let go this week. It will make my life easier in the long run but it’s still a really sad thing.

    1. fposte*

      Oh, I remember this. I’m sorry it didn’t work out, but it’s probably better for everybody than delaying the inevitable.

      1. Windchime*

        I think so, it’s just that he was such a nice person. Apparently the firing took him by surprise, even though I hear he received several written warnings and even more verbal warnings, plus lots of counseling. It really makes me think he just didn’t understand a lot of what was going on.

  135. Lizzy*

    I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that I was dealing with a toxic work environment where I had to report to board members while my manager was out on maternity leave (small nonprofit org). And these board members are the worst. They don’t know how things function, refuse to admit what they don’t know, are impossible to get in touch when we really need them, refuse to give us any autonomy over our work (yes never available to approve or look it over) and hold us to unrealistic standards.

    Well, I finally reached out to my supervisor when some things came to light this week. My co-worker, who deals with the day-to-day admin tasks, let it slip that the Board President has been intentionally keeping me out of the loop on certain things–like the interns who magically showed halfway through the summer (kids of her friends, obviously). And she even told my coworker that she doesn’t trust me to do certain tasks, like see the financial statements (I write the grants at this org!), telling my coworker to keep me out of the loop and all around just bad mouthing me. Of course, my naturals reaction that I was getting canned soon.

    Even without the nasty personal attacks on me, things have fallen apart in under 3 months. One of our main programs is a classical music competition for local youth. We change the music repertoire every 5 years and this unfortunately had to be the year we changed our music books. Not only do we not have the books available, we have parents and music teachers constantly asking us where they are. Some of them, especially the music teachers, are getting angry because my coworker and I don’t have answers and have to keep apologizing. We even wanted to send announcement about the books being delayed, but the Board President told us not to and act like everything is fine, unless they call or email us to inquire about them (because no one ever sought out answers through phone or email). I am fielding calls every day while my coworker (who is listed as the program’s main contact on the website) is being bombarded by frustrated, sometimes angry emails on a daily basis. And don’t get me started on the Gala in 9-10 weeks where nothing–NOTHING–has been planned. My coworker and I have been doing our best and even tried overstepping our bounds for the sake of getting stuff done, but we often get in trouble for it. I could go on with other problems, but I think you get the drift.

    Btw, a few of them were enjoying a nice vacation in Haiwaii and Italy–and were impossible to get in touch with–while my coworker were putting in overtime to manage this madness.

    Desperate, I reached out to my supervisor to let her know that things have gotten dire in her absence and that I might be gone soon. That prompted her into action. With her baby in tow, she came into the office for an emergency meeting yesterday. She was incredibly apologetic and admitted that there are things going behind the scenes that have disappointed her. Let me just preface that my supervisor is incredible and was hired on in 2014 to fix five years worth of org problems. She did an amazing job, but in her absemce the Board has done a great job of undoing her hard work. The kicker is they love her too and give her so much autonomy to run things her way. When she is not around, they become uncivilized buffoons.

    I definitely broke down and cried, letting her know how worthless I feel. She was incredibly supportive and admitted she has cried many times over her job. She is going to find a way to address all of this and possibly convince the Board to have someone else supervise us and to let us have more autonomy. She is also telling us to take time off because we are all burned out. I did feel better after talking to her and her baby daughter even cooed and giggled when I held her. :-)

    I am definitely job searching (have my first interview next week), but my last job search took over a year. I have to contend with the fact that I could be here for at least another 6+ months…that is if the Board President doesn’t ax me.

    I’ll keep updates on how this goes.

    1. spocklady*

      Oh man that is rough. Good luck and hang in there as best you can — hope you have good news soon! That board just sounds awful.

    2. MsM*

      I’m so sorry you’re dealing with all this. But it’s great that you’ve got your supervisor in your corner – and that at the very least, there’s a chance they’ll listen to her.

  136. W*

    There is an opening in another department that I’m interested in. I like my job and my department, but I hate my coworkers, and they’re the main reasons why I want to leave. We are just too different and I don’t fit in with them or their work culture (note that it’s “their” work culture, not the senior staffs’ or other departments’), and it takes such a toll on me dealing with it everyday. I have a really good rapport with my boss and the senior staff in my department, however.

    If I do transfer to the other department, can I be honest with my current boss that the reason why I’m transferring is because of the coworkers and their work culture?

    1. fposte*

      In general, you’ll do a lot better framing it as the appeal of the work culture over there rather than the downside of the work culture where you are. But if it’s not just difference but a problem–if they’re really mean or hostile, not just into gaming or makeup or whatever–there can be a place for a mention of that in an exit-interview-type conversation. “There’s a habit of negativity, with mockery that goes beyond the joking and a lot of comments about people’s private lives, that’s made it tough for me to stay as positive as I’d like, and I thought you might find that useful to know.”

  137. Not My Usual Name*

    This week, I had another 2 interviews with employers, which is good, but I hate the waiting part as I can’t plan anything until I know whether I will be getting a new job and when. Also, I only have another 3 weeks of my notice period and then I will need to think about how to cover the gap in my CV.

  138. Slow pay...*

    So, my company is very slow to pay things. They always pay but it’s always two to four months later and obviously past due. I’m really not sure why, I run certain reports and we are making plenty of profit.

    I’ve talked to our A/P department and our VP has to approve everything and he is the one who keeps pushing off paying things until 60 to 90 days (although I have vendors asking about an invoice from April that has yet to be paid…) so A/P’s hands are tied.

    I really like my job but it’s making it difficult to work with certain vendors. Does anyone have any advice? Any scripts for vendors or the VP?

    I know Alison has posted on this before (well, companies who don’t pay) but ultimately her advice was for the LWs to leave the company and I really don’t want to do that…

    1. AdAgencyChick*

      Take this with a huge grain of salt, because I have a feeling it wouldn’t be safe to say this in some positions.

      I’d be honest with the vendors and help them find ways to make the slow payment schedule acceptable to them. If they’re threatening to withhold further services if they aren’t paid faster, can you suggest to them that they revise their terms to offer a rate of $X if the invoice is paid within 30 days, $1.5X if 60 days, $2X for 90 days? If the company really is raking it in, they may care more about dragging their feet on payment than about how much they’re paying — or it might make the VP figure out that the company needs to pay on time in order to get the best rates. (Or he might just say “find another vendor” — but it sounds like you’re close to needing to find them anyway.)

      If they start doing this, the script for the VP is easy — “We will save $X by paying people on time.”

    2. Cristina in England*

      I’ve heard of this a lot, actually. I like AdAgencyChick’s advice, and if you’re worried about potential fallout, you could be very… subtle about it. For instance:
      “I understand that you’re unhappy with our payment schedule, but I’m afraid that is something I am not in a position to influence. The terms of your contract state do not stipulate late fees for delayed payment so we are not in violation of our terms with you. If you wish to revise the terms of our contract in this area, that would be your prerogative.”
      This would all have to be said in a certain tone of voice to be suggestive rather than dismissive (with some dramatic pauses), but if you had a good relationship with a supplier it might be a good way to go. I’ve seen it work in other circumstances.

    3. Dynamic Beige*

      I would hope your vendors have payment terms on their invoices… sometimes people will do a 2% will be added for late payment every month kind of thing. You might want to suggest something like that verbally.

      Are you on good terms with people in your accounting department? Because in my experience there’s two reasons why people don’t pay on time. 1. They don’t have the money/cashflow problem (which could affect you/your job) and 2. They’re dicks. There is the other one that I got to experience once where the guy yelled at me about how poor the job was done before I sent an invoice saying he wouldn’t pay more than $X. I found out later that he was notorious throughout the industry for looking for the slightest fault in everything and then screaming his head off for a discount. But I assume your VP hasn’t been calling these people up and ripping them new ones, demanding discounts, right?

      If you are on somewhat good terms with the VP, you might ask him directly. “I’ve been getting many complaints from [these important vendors of ours] that their invoices aren’t being paid promptly. Frankly, I’m running out of things to say to them and I’m worried that if I can’t give them a suitable explanation or fix this problem, they might decide to no longer extend us credit or will start charging late payment fees. Since I understand that you must approve all invoices, what can you suggest going forward?” However, that might turn into a career limiting move if he’s a #2.

  139. The Other Dawn*

    Ah, damn. Late to the party. I’m off work today and was out all day, so forgot.

    Well, my superstar employee gave her two weeks’ notice today. I’m not surprised, since she’s young and wants to grow and move up. My company is fantastic, which means people tend to stay here for a very, very long time. We can’t promise that she will have opportunities to move up within the department, so I totally understand why she’s leaving. Poor thing was so nervous to tell me. I could tell by her body language so I just said, “You’re leaving.” And the dam broke. She was happy that it went better than she thought; she’s never given notice before and thought we would be really angry, apparently. I think she just psyched herself up a lot and expected the worst. She said she was so sorry to leave now, it’s a bad time for us, we’re so busy, but I need the opportunity to grow and see what else is out there, etc. I was totally supportive and told her she should do what’s best for her and don’t stay somewhere just because you’re more comfortable.

    And now I dread telling the other people in the department, mainly one person. He’s kind of a “the sky is falling” type of person. He’s great and knows his stuff, but he’s very reactive. I’m not; not much ruffles me. I think the plan of attack is to tell him and then immediately tell him that we have a plan in place for taking care of the workload in the meantime. Anyone have any suggestions?

    1. fposte*

      I think letting him know about the plan is fine, but what about just letting him freak and not making that your problem?

      1. Cristina in England*

        I totally agree with this. Additionally, though, I wonder if Dawn is concerned that his reactive nature will negatively impact other team members? That might be worth addressing on its own, if that is the root of it.

    2. Ms. FS*

      Oh yeah. I love that type. My message in these cases was a) Turn over is a part of doing business; and (b) if we are concerned about the rate of turnover, let’s figure out the problem and do something about it and (c) ask ourselves internally if there was something we could have done to retain this person. If the honest answer is “no” then you really can’t do much about it. People move on.

    3. catsAreCool*

      Like fposte said, how about telling him and walking away. Maybe tell him last thing on Friday, so he has a chance to freak about it without you having to listen.

  140. spocklady*

    You guys! I have been living in the pit of despair waiting to hear back about a job I really wanted, and I finally got the offer last night! I am so excited. Things won’t be official for a bit yet (we still have to discuss some logistics and salary, and I’ll be out of the office for a bit), but I’m really pumped.

    1. FurnitureLady*

      I’m so happy for you! I’m waiting for my call and really freaking out because I want this job badly. Good luck in your new opportunity!

  141. FurnitureLady*

    I’m late to the party and no one will read this…and that’s okay, but I’m a finalist for a job I really want. I’ve had 5 rounds of interviews(!), they checked my references on Weds and I know it’s between me and another person. I’m freaking out because they haven’t called yet. I’m guessing they offered the other candidate and are waiting for a reply, because I’m paranoid like that. Nothing to do but wait for the call either way! Oh well, I hope everyone has a good weekend!

    4. fposte*

      Remember, they have to check the other candidates’ references too, and that may happen after yours and more slowly than yours; they may also need to find a meeting time for the hiring committee to discuss the decision following the reference checks. We would be much faster than usual if we managed to extend an offer only two days after checking references. So I wouldn’t assume you were currently second.

      Good luck to you for an offer soon!

      1. TJoie*

        Hey thanks for this!
        I felt so much better (about my own similar situation) after reading your reply here.
        I just have to stop reading more into it and just wait till I hear back from them. They did tell me on Monday they’re still working on things and will update me soon.

    5. TJoie*

      Congrats!!! I’m in the same boat – so here’s crossing our fingers we both hear good news on Monday/next week! Five rounds of interview is a lot! I had three and a phone interview and I thought that was a lot. (They checked all my references last week already.)

      Good luck!

      1. FurnitureLady*

        Good luck to all of us “waiters” out there! This is such a supportive and helpful community – I hope all of us have great news to report soon!

  142. Ann O'Nemity*

    I was assigned a project that I thought was a bad idea. Despite my initial reluctance, I’ve tried really hard to get the the project to succeed. Now, customer feedback is echoing my original concerns. And that’s after I tried to address those issues in design and implementation. My thoughts are going back and forth between “I told you so/I knew this was going to suck” and “I wonder if my lack of genuine support subconsciously sabotaged this project.”

    1. AnnieNonymous*

      I’ve been in a similar position before. I worked for a cosmetic brand/manufacturer, and I had always been open about how much I loved makeup and knew a fair amount about different brands/formulas/etc. Whenever a new product launched, I was tasked with light social media marketing like blogging and writing facebook ads. I enjoyed doing that. However, occasionally I would have to write about a product that I thought was a bad idea or that wouldn’t resonate with, well, myself-as-a-target-shopper. I would try to present my concerns as, “What if a customer says this?” or, “What if this issue comes up?”

      Inevitably, I would be blamed for the failure of a project, and I was also labeled someone who “gets hung up on details and can’t see the picture” because my concerns would cause minor delays in the posts going live. I wasn’t nit-picking; I was doing good, thorough marketing work. There’s a reason I left that company.

    2. Wakeen's Teapots Ltd.*

      God, you put a lot into that project. That can’t feel good.

      I only know what you’ve written here but you have documented a lot of wise, thoughtful steps along the way. I think if you go back through your process, you can assure yourself you did all, or at least as much possible, to make it succeed.

      Do you think maybe you need a little break before you dice this up to see what you might have done better? That last encounter you wrote about and your concerns about your boss’s reaction, that was an emotional experience. This is has been a long road.

      In other news, it is National Tequila Day. Just sayin’.

  143. Amy not Rebecca*

    My boss keeps calling me by the name of my predecessor. It usually happens by email, but he doesn’t ever correct himself (and I don’t correct him). One email he’ll call me Amy (my name), the next he’ll call me Rebecca (predecessor’s name) Is this weird? Should I be offended that he’s doing this or do I need to address it? I’ve been attributing it to being older (he’s in his 50s, maybe 60s, but I’ve never asked), but I just don’t what to do. Any input would be greatly appreciated!

    1. fposte*

      Does he generally treat you okay? Then I wouldn’t worry about it.

      I think this could be because he’s older, but not in the way you mean–he’s had a lot of Amy/Rebecca/Zach/James over the years, and sometimes the wrong one comes out. If you had a sibling, think of all the times your parent started addressing you as your sibling’s name.

      1. Amy not Rebecca*

        He’s certainly not my favorite boss ever, but I don’t have any legitimate complaints of his management skills (aka I don’t agree with some of his decisions, but they aren’t big deals). I’ve been called the wrong name in a number of situations (clients, relatives, etc), but not my boss. The input is greatly appreciated!

      2. Dynamic Beige*

        Our afterschool babysitter was a woman who had had 5 kids. She would look right at you and be all “Mary… no, Leslie… tch! Caroline… ” eventually she’d get there!

        But if it was my boss, I would want to start on some sort of Gentle Reminder, I’m Amy campaign. Your boss just has to be trained out of it. One day, you’ll leave and he’ll be calling your replacement by your name!

    2. FurnitureLady*

      Was your predecessor there a long time? It might just be “habit” but you probably need to correct him gently, perhaps in a humorous way? My old boss used to call me by his wife’s name on occasion – talk about awkward!

    3. Headachey*

      How’s your rapport with him? With any but the stiffest, most old-school boss, I’d be inclined to sign my emails N0t-Rebecca for a while.

    4. Sara*

      I once had a supervisor who called me by the names of not one but TWO of his former reports. (One was my direct predecessor, and one was someone he’d managed in a similar role at a different organization.) I politely and pleasantly corrected him every time, and I’m pretty sure it stopped after a month or so. I didn’t love it, but had no complaints about him otherwise, so I let it slide.

  144. BananaPants*

    I just want to celebrate – this is my husband’s last day as a stay-at-home dad; he starts his new job on Monday! There are many changes coming for us and the kids. He’s enjoyed the last 11 months at home with them but is really looking forward to getting back to work. I’m washing backpacks and lunchboxes so we’ll be ready to roll on Monday morning. I hope so much that this job ends up being a good one for him.

  145. Anonym*

    My mentor and favorite person in the office, who was a good employee, has left the company. The rest of the office, including management, talks badly about them for anything that goes wrong currently, even stuff they weren’t even involved in. I usually respond with silence or a quick change in subject if I am directly involved in the conversations.

    Is this typical? When a good co-worker leaves, how does the office welcome their replacement without discrediting the one who left, or making it sound impossible for the replacement to “fill their shoes?”

    1. The IT Manager*

      I don’t think it’s typical. I was in the military. People left a lot. If they got talked about at all, it was usually about how good they were or their quirky personality. This whole blame thing is very odd to me. OTOH in the military you know people are going to leave so it’s not disloyal to leave.

  146. Cruciatus*

    I have officially accepted one offer but we won’t get contract stuff or a starting date set until Monday. But I want to tell the other company before things go too far in their hiring process. You hear the horror stories about people losing out on both jobs. I see no reason for that to be true. But should I just wait until Monday to call the other job now that it’s 4:00 EST or should I try to call now and hope nothing happens with the first job (again, I can’t foresee anything).

    1. Cruciatus*

      OK, it’s 4:15 on a Friday so I will just call them on Monday and hope for the best.

    2. Wakeen's Teapots Ltd.*

      People will get over the broken heart of finding you’ve accept another job pretty quickly. It’s a thing that happens and a day’s delay will never be remembered. You worked hard to get here!

  147. GOG11*

    I posted about a month ago in the open thread asking for advice and resources for picking out and assembling work appropriate color, especially in regard to color. Thank you to everyone who responded, especially Victoria Nonprofit (USA) (I’ve been looking at all sorts of colorful things and noticing the color combos – everything from photos to random objects in nature to clothing I find in the stores) and to Windchime, who suggested that I look into the Vivienne Files, which I’ve been devouring the archives of!

    For anyone who struggles with color, I would highly recommend the Vivienne Files. It’s amazing what she puts together and I’m starting to think about and pull color together in new and exciting ways. I went through her starting from scratch series and I love that she explains the function of the pieces and why she chooses them. So, instead of echoing style magazines that say you need a little black dress, she explains what a little black dress does (gives you a neutral, versatile dress that can be styled up or down depending on where you’re going and what you’re doing). There’s a good mix of casual and professional pieces and posts, and even one that shows you how to take pieces from a casual summer wardrobe and create at conservative professional wardrobe from it.

    2. Windchime*

      I’m so glad you like it! I was so hooked on it for awhile that I was seriously considering buying an Hermes scarf because she does such beautiful things with them. (No, I didn’t–reason took over and convinced me that it was madness, sheer madness, to pay $300 for a scarf. But they are so pretty!)

      1. GOG11*

        Super late to post (I was pretty much off the grid from Friday evening on), but I did look at Hermes scarves…except they’re SO. BUSY. She does do beautiful things to them, but there’s just too much going on for my tastes. I did buy a scarf from Old Navy that she posted last week. It’s got four colors (two of which are neutrals…) and a pattern comprised of flowers, leaves and seashells. That’s about as busy as I can handle, but what she does with them, for a brief moment, makes me think I should have one.

        I have clicked on items she’s posted way more than I’ve ever done for any other blog I’ve found. She just finds things that speak to me so frequently.

    3. Maritza*

      LOVE the Vivienne Files! What I would not do for a plus-size-focused equivalent.

      (Because you should not totally believe people when they tell you everyone can wear things the same way. We can not. I have learned the hard way.)

      1. GOG11*

        She does focus largely on color, though there was a post that compared two pieces of art with similar color schemes that focused instead on movement. One painting had straight, crisp lines and a bit of a boxy feel and the other was flowing and ethereal. She created two sets of things and showed, side-by-side, how to recreate the shapes of the art.

        She does admit that the clothes are rather boxy in order to help focus us on color, rather than get distracted by the shapes of the clothing. I’m rather busty and I always see gorgeous, flowy tops in various shops and think, “Oh, that looks so nice!” Then I try it on and it looks like a tent. Sigh.

  148. Wakeen's Teapots Ltd.*

    I didn’t have time today to set up a decent Marketing V Non-Marketing Versus Fighting post that I wanted to, but I’ll throw in an anecdote/kvetch that’s semi on topic.

    So we are launching a huge new product line in an area that we’ve never done before and I’m living and breathing it, the last two months. Some the work is semi glamorous, the way you’d think marketing would be. Me: “Oh, these images will never do! We are going to market with an upscale angle!” or “Hmmm, I’m not completely happy with the feel of this material. I don’t think that this the right choice. Bring in 10 more samples so I can evaluate!” (Right, so that’s kinda like the way marketing is in your head?)

    And then the other 90% of the time……. I am literally seeing Excel spreadsheet lines when I am not even looking at my computer. Burned into my retina. Best part: an hour ago I had to trash three full days of pricing work I’d done because my final evaluation was we aren’t price competitive enough areas A and B, have to switch contract vendors for a segment and redo everything:

    This Weekend.

    Because I have a deadline on Monday.

    Yay, marketing!

      1. Wakeen's Teapots Ltd.*

        Ha, see the people in my life know better than to ask me that. I could talk your ear off!

        The concise (?) version:

        It’s a strategy puzzle. Say there are 20 Fine Teapot wholesalers and we’re one of X sellers of the Fine Teapots online and in the mail. Between the 20 wholesalers, there are 1000’s of products. To enter the Fine Teapot market, there needs to be a reason for us to be there because there are already multi sellers.

        Our reason can’t be price. We’re located in a high COL area and pay people pretty well. Most of our competitors are in lower COL area and some of them operate way on the cheap. We have price pressure from our competitors but we can’t play “lowest price or double the difference!”

        We can sell on service. This works with existing customers because our people are great and we do offer white glove type service.

        To get new customers, though, we sell on selection (I hate to use the overuse “curated” but that’s what we’ve always done, we curate well) and on beauty. Fine Teapots are even higher market that we’ve been selling on most of our stuff so, beauty even more important and that’s the bit of the Devil Wears Prada thing I’ve been getting to do.

        Price though, people are trying to kill me! There’s a contract vendor element after the wholesalers and before it gets to customer. So much maths. After 3 days of non-stop Excel pricing and fiddling, I was almost done for Meryl Streep’s sake (the catalog pages I needed to do), after comparing against competition I just hit the wall. Too expensive. There’s no give in the wholesaler price and my people aren’t going to work for 30% less on this line so, had to switch contractors in order to bring the overall cost down low enough to sell low enough.

        And now I have to reprice everything based on new nets and new strategy.

        (I don’t think Meryl Streep had to ever price anything.)
        (And I’m not kidding about seeing excel lines in the air)

        Thanks for asking! You saved my husband my speech at Friday night dinner tonight. :)

        1. The IT Manager*

          Cool! I have zero interest in marketing but enjoy strategy puzzles.

          Excel rows on your eye balls, though, that’s rough.

          1. Wakeen's Teapots Ltd.*

            Still see them. I think that means I need to close up shop and get off the computer entirely. :)

            Eh, marketing is pretty much all a strategy puzzle, at least direct marketing is. And lots of math. Maybe brand marketers at large consumer companies get to spend their days on soft stuff but even that has to fit in the strategy puzzle that somebody is configuring and reconfiguring.

            I think marketers (ironically!) do a poor job of communicating just what exactly it is they do.

    2. TJoie*

      Sorry to hear that! Can’t say I’ve been in the same spot, but… similar?
      Good luck!

  149. Jennifer M.*

    My colleague just called me about a job opportunity that I *should* apply for, I just don’t know if I *want* to. We are both currently at the same company (A). She has been applying/interviewing for a while. A former boss of hers from company B called to let her know that he was taking a position at C as VP and was in need of a strong Sr. Director. She interviewed this week but just got a call from another company D with an offer. And since D would be a 20 minute commute vs a 1 hr commute, she is taking the offer from D. Back when I was in grad school I actually interned at C. At the time, 2 VPs got in a physical altercation and the police had to come. They offer amazing benefits. But the job itself isn’t what I really want to do and it would be a much longer commute to C than it is to A right now. If I’m not going to stay at A, I would actually much rather go to B if at all possible.

    I know that applying doesn’t equal interviewing which doesn’t equal offer. But my friend would put in a word for me that would most likely get me at least an interview because I do have a very specific skillset that is often in demand. It’s just that the job is exactly the type I was trying to get away from so that I could work in the area of my other skillset. Other relevant info: I’m in a bit of limbo here at A. I recently returned to the HQ from a satellite office. When this happens you get a certain amount of time just floating around but ultimately you have to apply for and be selected for an advertised opening within A. My skillset has kept me in demand since April and I have commitments through at least the end of August. So I am actively looking for jobs within A as well as keeping an eye on the outside world. Ugh.

    1. fposte*

      Um…are the pugilistic VPs gone? Because that would be a big sign of org craziness to me.

      1. Jennifer M.*

        The “victim” in the altercation was the one who “resigned” almost immediately after the incident. But then he didn’t leave. About a month later we threw him a going away party as it is just rude to stay after your party. And changed the combo on the keypad entry for the office. The other VP left about a year later.

    2. MsM*

      I’d just tell her the truth: you’re looking more for something in other skillset, but if she or former boss hears of anything else that might be a fit, you’d be interested.

      1. Jennifer M.*

        My colleague and I did have a long discussion about in on Friday. I told her I would think about it over the weekend. If I don’t apply she is going to mention it to another coworker who is more junior to me but that would be great at the job in my opinion. If he wants to leave here that is.

  150. phillist*

    Question from the hiring side of the desk:

    I’m hiring for a position that only moderately urgent in terms of filling. It’s not ideal, obviously, but I have mechanisms in place to ensure my staff isn’t overextended.

    I had some issues with my HR department scheduling interviews too far out (3+ weeks after the phone screen) and lost a lot of great candidates as a result.

    I was left with essentially two to choose from. One was definitely not going to work, and the other is just….ok. I think they would be able to do the technical pieces of the job itself fine, but I’m not really thrilled with hiring someone who is just “fine” when I have what I consider to be a stellar team. I’m being pushed to make a decision; HR informs me that I have no other candidates in the queue as yet.

    What does everyone think? Would you hire someone you’re not really enthusiastic about hiring, because you may be out of options? Or would you hold out for a better candidate?

    1. fposte*

      I’d extend the search and do it better this time. Were you happy with the original pool you got, or does your posting/disseminating plan need work? Did you like any of the people you lost enough to reach out to them?

      1. phillist*

        This is a constant battle for my org; we do a very specialized, somewhat controversial kind of work. This pulls in a lot of passionate admin people who want to support us and don’t really need a lot of “hard skills” to do the work. However, this particular position is in operations and does require a very specific skill set in an in-demand field (where there are lots of candidates, but they will also have a lot of other options).

        Unfortunately, I have zero control over the content of my job postings and recruiting efforts, and I don’t get to curate the resumes (HR does that, then passes the ones they like onto me–which I understand is completely standard, I just wish I had more input earlier in the process). I would say the pool I received would get an overall grade of C+. There were several that I knew immediately wouldn’t work out just based on their materials, a few I would have gladly interviewed (the candidate in question included) and one I was very, very excited about. When the one I was excited about cancelled (they took another position), I immediately went to HR with possible solutions–sadly, I didn’t get very far.

        When I took this position, I knew we had chronic staffing issues. I was very clear that I didn’t believe in filling spaces (and really, wasting a lot of resources we don’t have on our intensive training), and that I would rather work short than sacrifice the integrity of my (exceptional) team. I have always felt that one of my greatest strengths as a manager is staff organization/team building, and now I feel like that is being taken away from me to a degree. My HR person keeps telling me they won’t tell me to hire someone I’m not thrilled about, but then they pressure me to do exactly that. The cynic in me suspects it might be a little bit of fatigue on their part, since we’ve been on a staffing carousel for so long. But if we want to end that trend, I don’t think the answer is, “hire whoever seems okay enough.”

        This is my first major hire here, and I really don’t want to sacrifice what I very firmly believe about good management to fill a spot we don’t urgently need.

        Thank you everyone for the responses; I have to make a decision very soon, so it’s nice to have objective feedback.

    2. Lily in NYC*

      No way, extend if possible. And maybe talk to HR and tell them that you need them to schedule the interviews asap after the phone screen.

    3. MsM*

      Is there any further information you could collect from the “okay” candidate that might alleviate your concerns? If so, it’s worth asking. If not, I’d hold out. It’s not really fair to your new employee if they have to do more to prove themselves to you from Day One than another hire would.

    4. Darth Admin*

      Hold out if you can, and have a talk with HR about what you need from them to ensure both a good pool and a timelier process this time.

    5. Wakeen's Teapots Ltd.*

      Nope, never works out.

      I have the t shirt I bought if you’d like to send it to you, save you the trouble.

    6. AnotherFed*

      Don’t do it! It’s so tempting to take the okay help you can get sooner instead of holding out, but it just doesn’t end well. There’s a reason you’re not enthusiastic about this person, so listen to your gut! It’ll end up being such a PITA to either constantly coach the person, or fire and then hire someone new.

  151. TJoie*

    I’ve been through 3 rounds of interview with a company out here in the midwest after moving from the east coast – the last round was Tuesday last week. HR lady did email me back on Monday saying they’re “taking care of a few next steps on [their] end” and will be in touch soon with an update.
    I know I shouldn’t worry. And I’ve been good with putting it out of my mind after every round of interview with them but man this is hard…

    I’ve been reading The 4-Hour Workweek by Timothy Ferriss (almost through – I can’t put it down!) and it is great! Anyone has any recommendation for a good read this weekend to take my mind off of it?

    1. Kara Ayako*

      Good luck!

      For businessy nonfiction, I really enjoyed Switch: How to Change When Change is Hard, The Happiness Advantage, The Power of Habit, and Thinking, Fast and Slow.

      1. Jillociraptor*

        I just read Switch, and LOVED it. Dan and Chip Heath do such a great job of illustrating their argument.

        TJoie, good luck with the job search and not thinking about the job search!

        1. TJoie*

          Thanks! LOL I’ve been browsing Marshals, TJ Maxx, & Home Goods to keep my mind busy, which isn’t the best idea ever either haha. But my new place is getting a cute facelift!

      2. TJoie*

        Thank you! And thanks for this list; I looked up some quick reviews and have to say I’m already excited to get to them.

  152. Crazy boss story...*

    Boss decided that employee J was too loud and disruptive. He told her not to say hello and goodbye to everyone in the morning and end of day because it was too “loud”. However, in his generosity, he allowed her to choose one day per week in which she could say hello and goodbye. She chose Friday because she wants to be able to say “Have a nice weekend” to her fellow employees.

    1. Wakeen's Teapots Ltd.*

      I am so sorry I laughed out loud.

      I probably disturbed your boss, but, it is Friday.

      1. Elkay*

        Same here. It’s a shame she can’t say goodbye on Friday and hello on Monday to bookend the weekend.

  153. Darth Admin*

    So, a rant/vent.

    I found out through reliable sources that a new hire with my same title and less responsibility (in both dollars and people managed) and experience than I have is making a significantly higher salary than me AND got a signing bonus when she came on-board.

    I don’t begrudge this woman for negotiating hard. And I feel like I’m reasonably well-compensated. However, I am WICKED PISSED at our HR department, because they are always talking about how it’s SO important to maintain equity in the job categories and using that as an excuse to try to press me downwards on salary when I hire people. And, given this move, that is just so obviously a load of stinking horse hockey. I mean, I can take a lot of things, but hypocrisy isn’t one of them.

    Harumph.

  154. recyclethat*

    I don’t have a master’s degree, and most of my friends do (although it’s questionable how much those degrees have actually served them, I’ll admit. And for many, money was no object). It’s always made me feel a little inferior. I have a great job that pays well and I enjoy it, but sometimes I think about getting a master’s degree on nights and weekends, even though it wouldn’t really be relevant to my career (think a degree in the humanities).

    Is this crazy? Is it just not worth it? I read everywhere about how you shouldn’t go to grad school unless you know exactly what you’re going to do with the degree, but what about just for the love of learning? And yes, maybe a little because I feel like a little inferior about not having a master’s degree (you do not need one for my job at any level; this is just a weird me issue).

    What do you think?

    1. katamia*

      If you can afford it without taking on loans or going crazy from the time crunch, I don’t see the harm. However, other than access to college libraries/JSTOR, if you’re just going for the love of learning, then it’s arguably not necessary to have the degree either–you can study what you want to study on nights and weekends without actually attending classes, and if you want someone to talk about the subject with you I’m sure there are a ton of communities and blogs online for whatever your chosen field of study would be.

      I get the inferiority thing because I only have a BA right now (and given my undergraduate grades, since I developed very bad untreated depression in college, I may not actually be able to get into a decent grad school) while a lot of my friends have master’s degrees or even PhDs at this point, but at the same time I also really love that I have no loans and a lot more freedom (we’re in our late 20s, so a lot of my friends have horrible loan debt). I think I probably will try to go at some point, though, because my chosen field would be helped a lot by an additional degree even though I’m doing okay right now.

      So I guess I don’t think it’s crazy, but if there’s no chance of it ever helping you in your career at all, it might not be worth it since there are so many other ways to just learn for learning’s sake.

    2. Cristina in England*

      If you will enjoy the actual process of doing it and can afford it, go for it. Do not do it if you have to take out loans or otherwise can’t afford it. Do not do it unless you are really genuinely interested in the subject and want to learn it. Do not to it to keep up with everyone else: you will hate it, you will have to work hard at it, you will have less free time, and it costs a lot.

    3. Kara Ayako*

      I went to grad school for love of learning, and I’m glad I went. It was a very small expense for me because my company covered nearly all of the tuition. My degree was relevant to my job, but I didn’t go _for_ my job (my company, although it pays for school, doesn’t value graduate degrees as much).

      That said, it sounds really more like the inferiority thing and less about learning, and in that case, I would probably dig deep into your feelings about why you’re measuring your success by education level and not about, you know, success. I would also: (1) examine your finances and determine how much of a burden this would be, and (2) take a look at the amount of time you would spend in class and studying and think about the impact this would have on your job and your relationships.

      Because of school, I found myself working fewer hours (leaving earlier than I would have normally because I needed to go to class or study for an exam) and turning down invitations to hang out with friends (I still bitterly remember the day all my friends were having a blast at an event in a beer garden while I was taking an accounting final).

      I would do it all over again if I could, but definitely not if I’d had to pay for it.

      1. Kara Ayako*

        I also want to echo katamia. I totally understand, recyclethat, where you’re coming from because I “only” have a Master’s degree while many of my friends have PhDs and are professors. But if you want to measure successful from either earnings or happiness standpoints, I know I made the right choice for me when I hear my friends gripe about their loans and how difficult the market is or how tired they are after all these years of school (we’re also in our late 20s).

    4. Mischa*

      I wouldn’t discount a degree in the humanities *too* much. There are a lot of things (depending on what you’re doing now and what you’re studying, that is) that can be applicable across a lot of disciplines, in ways that would surprise you. My best friend has a master’s degree in sociology, which most people think is pretty useless, but she’s been able to do a wide variety of things over the years very well and with lots of success because she knows how to take what she knows and apply it convincingly to just about anything.

      Part of me wants to yell “follow your dreams, recyclethat! Charge on into the unknown!” But we all know that’s not exactly practical advice these days, haha.

      What I would do if I were in this position is first evaluate the programs you’d be interested in, and narrow them down. Then look at the kinds of classes you would be required to take and the potential electives (if they’re not on the site somewhere most departments will give you a general idea) and try to write down ways you might be able to apply those classes to what you’re doing now, since you like it and seem to want to stay in that. Then evaluate the cost — is this something you can do feasibly, without an *incredible* amount of financial hardship (since there’s an implication of some financial drain regardless, obviously)? I’d weigh all of that and then decide and choose a program that seems to have the most advantages.

      Again, just me!

    5. AnnieNonymous*

      I don’t regret going to grad school. Being academic is a core aspect of my personality and identity, and I admit that as a somewhat normative/stereotypical/fussy young woman, I definitely like having my MA to fall back on if I feel like I’m not being taken seriously. My job doesn’t pay incredibly well, but I wouldn’t have gotten it without my MA. My BA wasn’t a good fit for the job market at the time (I graduated in spring of 2008, and the recession hit that December), and I was lucky to be able to transition into a completely different field as a graduate student. I’ll note that while I ended up being able to start the grad program without prerequisites, my original goal was to get a second BA in the subject. I couldn’t tell you whether I would have seen the same benefits from a BA or if the MA actually matters.

      That’s a long and convoluted response, but I suppose that’s the point. Everyone’s situation is different when it comes to these matters. If you sense that you may need a boost in future jobs searches, it could be beneficial.

    6. fposte*

      If you get a kick out of it equivalent to the cost, then sure, fine. I don’t think it’s worth it to keep up with the Joneses, though, and that sounds more like your motivation.

    7. Jill 2*

      I hear you. I’m one of the few non-grad degree people in my circle. Most of the people I know are crazy successful doctor/MBA/science/engineer types, and I definitely feel pretty worthless next to them.

      I always hear you don’t need the degree, but if the BA is the new high school diploma, then in my mind, a graduate degree DOES make you stand out. So it is a necessity, IMO, to have the competitive edge.

      But on the other hand, it feels like education is now only for the very wealthy. I’m better off than most, but to go to school would put me in a situation I could never get out of. It’s so depressing too, especially since I want a career change.

      Ugh.

      1. BRR*

        I don’t think a graduate degree makes you stand out unless you’re in a specific field like the ones you mentioned. I’m in a field where it’s basically another box. I think it’s ridiculous that we say it’s preferred.

        Also I disagree about if you can afford it why not. I say there’s far better things to do with your money then getting a degree to fit in. Now if you’re company contributes to it, then why not.

  155. LProsser*

    Just had to deliver my first PIP in my 2-1/2 years as a supervisor. I made it through but I was a nervous wreck during the whole process. The only thing I’m a little bit proud of is not rising to the person’s angry denouncement that she didn’t know why she was being singled out when everyone else does the same thing I’m writing her up for (they don’t). I sincerely hope this person will turn around and follow the plan because she is competent/proficient at many aspects of the role.

    Thanks for listening – this is such a great group of people!

    1. Katie the Fed*

      Good job! It is SO hard to do these things. I stress out about it to the point that my stomach hurts, because it’s so hard to do. But we wouldn’t be doing our jobs if we always did what was easy. I hope this person improves!

      1. LProsser*

        I know what y0u mean! I thought I was going to throw up for about an hour before our meeting. Still, I lived through it and I now know it won’t kill me. Well, I hope not.

    2. Elizabeth West*

      Hopefully, she’ll do what I did when I got one and think about it this weekend and decide that if she ends up leaving, it won’t be because she didn’t work hard to improve her performance. And *hug* for you. I know that had to be hard.

      1. LProsser*

        Thanks for the kind words (and the hug :) ). She asked me for a meeting this morning and apologized for her attitude during the meeting. She said she does recognize the issue and is going to work hard to improve. Even if she’s just blowing the proverbial smoke, it’s exactly what I had hoped to hear.

  156. Jill 2*

    How do you ever develop your own sense of judgment and opinion when you are constantly micromanaged? If every idea or comment you ever have is shot down or ignored, you end up just being the grunt worker and because you know you’ll be shot down again, you lose the motivation to try. If you don’t have the opportunity to get out of this workplace, what can you do to work on developing yourself despite the reality that you don’t have ownership or authority over anything?

    To be fair, I am rarely passionate about these issues, and that’s why I just let the loudest voices in the room win. What I do control, no one knows how to manage, so I get to set it up my way, which is great. But I’m concerned about my professional development in a larger sense. I should care, but I don’t know how to speak up or position myself to be heard.

    What tactics have you used to build yourself up if the network around you isn’t necessarily supportive?

  157. Relosa*

    Okay, so another non-update but question about this job that I just refuse to give up on, but probably should anyway…why do I torture myself?

    (And before anyone asks, yes I am looking for other work, but I want THIS job more than I’ve wanted someting in a long, long LONG time. THIS job is the reason I moved out here, to get a job specifically like this, that are very, very rare)

    Anyway, how would I word a followup to this timeframe? I essentially want to say “Okay, seirously, just tell me whether or not I’m in the running ’cause you keep saying I am but there’s nothing coming from your side except bad news”

    1) Applied late June. Called in next day for interview. Scheduled interview for following Monday.
    2) Submitted background check, drug screen, company application, etc – amazing interview, all signs it went well.
    3) was promised a followup by the following Monday. Of COURSE it never came, I followed up by Wednesday (After the thankyou note sent a week before)
    4) Was responded to very quickly, was told delays blah blah blah, we’ll keep you in the loop, hope this isn’t inconveniencing you (oh, no, not at all, I just have $75k in student debt I’m a hairsbreadth away from defaulting on because apparently ‘livable wages’ really means ‘lol wat job after kollege’)…haven’t decided finalists yet (even though you told me after our first meeting I’d be moving forward…) we’ll let you know soon.
    5) friday after that, job is re-posted

    …so it’s been over two weeks since I last touched base. I know it’s “only” a month but quite frankly I give zero craps about sympathy to an employer that drags their feet (I’ve hired before, there’s just no excuse – sorry I’m cranky today. Very cranky). I’m going to follow up, and I don’t want to lose my eensy-weensy chance that I might still be in the running, but how would I word it to ask if I’m still actually being considered without actually sounding desperate and/or pissed off?

    Which I am, both. Even though I REALLY want this job.

    1. AnnieNonymous*

      I’m sorry to say this, but the very act of following up again is going to make you look desperate regardless of the message’s content. You started out on the wrong foot when you called the day after applying, and that’s not the kind of thing you can ever fully recover from, even if you’re hired.

      You only hear from them when you initiate. It’s like dating – at this point, the assumption is that they’re not going to call you on their own. They haven’t forgotten; they need to fill this position. The next time you apply somewhere, don’t call them and pester them for interviews and details.

      1. fposte*

        I think she means she was called in the next day by the employer, not that she called them the next day.

        I don’t think it’ll hurt her to email now, if she hasn’t asked about the reposting yet, but I don’t think it’ll gain her anything, either.

        1. Relosa*

          Yes, they called me the morning after I applied. I didn’t call them.

          I just hate being strung along. Everything’s telling me they’re just sweeping me under the rug. 99% of other jobs I apply to – even the rare ones in this field – I forget about after I apply. But this one is especially frustrating because while I’m looking in the same field, I keep seeing it. It’s only posted in one spot, but I’ll run into others who work for the same company on linkedin, things like that (and people I don’t know, and most of them in roles below the one I interviewed for, so it would be weird to introduce myself in that way)

    2. MsM*

      Maybe mention you saw the listing, and was curious if that means they’re still reviewing the initial pool or have moved on? But yeah, I do think you need to quit torturing yourself on this one.

    3. fposte*

      The wording isn’t worth this amount of thought. “Hi–I just wanted to touch base to see if the reposting meant a change to the time frame. Thanks!”

      Or don’t email at all. It’s not likely to change anything. You don’t really want to email them, you want them to tell you that you have the job, preferably, or at least that you definitely don’t and can move on. And you can’t make them do that, I’m afraid.

      And I’d let go of the anger if possible (venting here is a fine way to do that!). I’m not seeing you as mistreated here; they’re running longer than they’d hoped, but on hiring time (like basketball time) they’re still within reason. I think their speedy start may have led you to think everything would happen at that speed, but it’s not mean of them that it didn’t work that way.

      Fingers crossed for good news for you next week!

      1. Relosa*

        I’m not saying I am mistreated, but that doesn’t mean I can’t be frustrated.

        The thing is, they did initially promise both a fast turnaround and open communication. They made it very clear they were looking to move forward right after 4th of July. They said they would keep me updated. I think that re-posting the job is good reason to update the people you originally called in for interview…like, to tell them whether or not they’re still being considered. It’s a small job board, and there’s no way the role would go unnoticed.

        I’m just frustrated that I’m still being left in the dark – and it’s a buildup of every single employer out there doing the same thing with no accountability. These guys were different in every way, except now they aren’t. It’s hard to want to keep bothering to find work when nothing makes you feel more unhireable than what becomes nothing more than bait-and-switch with job hunting.

        1. fposte*

          Frustrated is fine and understandable. But you’ve also said you’re really pissed off, and I think that’s a sign you’re taking it personally when it’s not. So find a way to let that go.

          I don’t know if my employer regularly lets people know when we’re reposting. I have, when I’m hiring chair, but it’s not in any guidelines I had. So I think that falls under a “nice to have” rather than an “expected.”

          I’m sorry; it sucks to be so close and yet not close enough, at least not yet. Nobody’s denying the suck. But it is pretty usual, and an email won’t get you out of it. Hang in there.

          1. Relosa*

            it sucks to be so close and yet not close enough, at least not yet.

            ‘not yet’ has been going on for years and years now. I don’t think I’m ever getting my “now!” chance. This was that chance.

        2. BRR*

          First of all, it definitely sucks. Don’t say you’re going to follow up and then skip it. You can send a message saying nothing is happening.

          Second, a lot of places have it set up that they don’t send out rejections until a candidate has accepted an offer. Also about hiring timelines, people can be out on vacation. It’s a challenge to line everybody’s schedule up in summer.

          Lastly, I don’t think you have anything to gain by emailing them. I’m job hunting and recently I thought about following up. I realized they knew I existed (we interviewed), following up after a thank you wasn’t really going to do anything. It’s not like the go, “oh yeah let’s hire you.”

          1. Relosa*

            You can send a message saying nothing is happening.

            Precisely. When I did touch base a couple weeks ago, I received a response within 15 minutes, which is great! And it was pleasant. They pretty much said they didn’t have anything but would let me know. However, since, they, you know, haven’t been letting me know, it’s annoying.

            Unfortunately, I know for a fact this time of year no one is on vacation (This is the busiest time of year and invariably in each organization like this, the only time any time off would be awarded is for something truly necessary or a major life event like marriage), so that’s not the delay. I also know from experience it could just be work itself…but you know…people in this field understand that, so if weird times have to be booked for interviews, or there’s a delay, or whatever – this business moves quickly – people are fine with that and used to it.

            I’m just really, really tired of hunting for jobs and either getting nothing, or no. Which is nothing. This has been going on for years now and I’m just. Tired. Of. It.

  158. Liane*

    Finally, we got some good Job Karma!
    I’ve been out of work for about a month & a half and my husband for longer. Today, we got a call from the agency we’ve been working with that both of us will start temp-to-perm at the same place, although on different shifts. It’s out of both our fields and the pay isn’t great. But after the emergency fund was used, we were at a point where neither of us could be picky. We’re both still looking for other things. I just put in for a couple of jobs today, in fact.

  159. Steve G*

    I just had THE worst interview ever.

    The person was very polite via email, but when I got there, they came out almost 1/2 an hour late, and then acted like they didn’t know “which one” I was after I said my name. No small talk or “how are you,” he was staring at random things on his computer screen and ignoring me, then I gave him a copy of my resume and he was like “OMG how can you have been unemployed for a year and a 1/2!!” I have not been, but he didn’t want to hear it. He pressed me for details on what I’ve been doing “all that time,” and everything I said got scoffed at (moving house, renovating new house, brushing up on VBA, let’s see, that brings us up to June, so I’ve been slacking for a month). NOT good enough. He kept pressing as to what I am doing wrong. It was odd and adversarial. There were a 1000 ways to start the conversation, but the chose the adversarial track. Meanwhile, I am looking at Mary and Jesus behind his head. I told him I’ve interviewed for jobs where I am not a good fit – experience level, computer programs, trajectory, industry, and he scoffed again. I didn’t think it was funny, I mean, I have applied to jobs and interviewed to find out that we are mismatched in terms of experience level and salary – that is a real thing that happens, but OK Mr. Interviewer….

    So we get into experience, I start talking and his eyes wander to his computer screens and IPAD again, and then he cuts me off to grill me on some project management acronyms. Totally not a project management role. I don’t know if I’ve used Agile or Scrum because I’m not familiar with them. He looks upset. I say, I would have prepared to answer that question but nothing about project management is in the (long) ad, if Agile had been written there, I would have looked it up. He said, well, I don’t put it in because it can deter candidates. Well, which is it then? Its not OK that I didn’t know what it was, as per your headshake, or is it OK? So I finally get what Agile is out of him, and I was like, oh yeah, I’ve applied that before…..and I was thinking, why does this need to be so difficult?
    He kept cutting me off and shooting out random people labels to categorize me as a worker, until he finally came up with “financial operations” person. I said, OK, but I’ve also managed our relationships with many important vendors and customers, to which he retorted that “you are the worst kind of candidate.” I was fuming inside but asked what he meant. He said you are good at many things, but at nothing in particular (note to self, advanced Excel, VBA, PowerPoint, and medium level Access and Salesforce, not to mention sales, customer service, account management, and sales operations analysis experience are NOT job skills). I said, well that is exactly why I applied for your job, because the job ad was a coagulation of a little of everything and anything that could fall under operations. My last job was in operations in a startup, so is this. He was like, no no no, you’re not gonna get the job (this was 15 minutes into it at most). Then he said there might be another position in the future and did I have any questions.

    He was so hostile towards me before I barely spoke despite being pleased to invite me in for an interview “after careful review” via email…that I am wondering if there was some sort of “discrimination” at play, be it age (I’m not old, but everyone there was very, very young), being gay (but I am not that flamboyant), or perhaps for looking too expensive (I purposefully wore a really nice suit and looked like someone who made good money because I thought you were supposed to “dress for success.” Everyone else there was really, really casual, and I didn’t fit in. I was much more dressed up than the other guy there for another interview as well..)….perhaps it was a combo of the three…

    1. Relosa*

      WOW. My condolences.

      There is no other word for it: that guy is a complete jackass.

      How do people like that keep a job?! Much less get into the position of selecting others for a job?

      You did the right things – it’s not your age, or your suit (yes, you are supposed to wear a suit!)

      Run away from this place screaming. Not a bullet dodged- more like a missile!

      1. Steve G*

        He was the CEO/owner, so I guess that is how! Very nasty person. I have 3 “real” interviews next week and I need to shake this guy off.

        Unfortunately they have no social media presence (despite being in media) so there is nowhere to post a complaint.

        1. voluptuousfire*

          I wish we could out companies that have crappy interviewers.

          It’s a bullet dodged.

          1. Steve G*

            Thank God for the “interview” section of glassdoor – I’ve dodged a few bullets by looking there!

      1. Steve G*

        Thank you for the commiseration, I totally need it now.

        I have a couple of “real” interviews next week and need an aura-bath to recharge before them after this guy!

      1. Steve G*

        No explanation, that’s why I was thinking it must be some sort of discrimination type thing, because he had no logical reason to ignore my good answers and rush me out and pretend I didn’t have certain experiences. I did also notice that a lot of the people there were very young, about 25, which is why I call BS on his concern about me not having enough experience at 34 (which, I know, is young, but professionally is way ahead of 25)……or maybe it was a power dynamic thing. There were lots of younger people including some that looked like they could be interns in casual clothes sitting with their heads down. Here I waltz in, a bit overdressed, the tallest and biggest person in the place, making direct eye contact….maybe he felt he wouldn’t be able to control me?!

        I’ve been thinking of ways he could have worded things nicely to get the same exact information. For example instead of “you are the worst type of candidate” he could have said “I am just a bit concerned that you haven’t focused on one industry, why is that?” And I would have explained it was due to geography but now that I am in NYC where there are more jobs I can focus on one. Instead of saying “ugh, I meet a lot of people like you,” as if I’m so horrible, he could have asked “how would you differentiate yourself from other people with similar experience?”

        And PS I can tell why he runs his own company – his nonsense would not fly in a fortune 1000 type company!

        And thanks for the commiseration!

        1. voluptuousfire*

          Steve G…I’m so glad you’re in NYC and are having as much trouble with finding work as I am. It does make me feel a lot better that I’m not the only one!

          1. Steve G*

            SO MANY of the jobs are in media/e-marketing firms. I’m not interested. So many startups and small companies run by crazy, narcissistic people. You wouldn’t know from the tones of my comments here, but I sit and smile and let them speak and try to stay positive, and you’d be shocked about some of the crap owners of smaller companies come out with. Stuff that would never fly at bigger companies.

            I’ve felt like I am talking to Goldilocks (the whole too hot too cold thing) during past interviews. The job is either not challenging enough for me, or there is no room to grow, or they don’t believe I’m OK with the paycut thing, or I never did (insert some obscure thing) and of course, there is someone else in NYC who has done that one little thing.

            My recent favorite was a guy I interviewed with. Never heard back. The job was very much ME so I kind of stalked in on linkedin…..someone finally popped up with the title and a start date of last month….the guy who got the job looks almost exactly like the interviewer, they went to school in the same area, and finished the same year. I was like, oh, you were interviewing for a clone of yourself! If I had known…….

    4. catsAreCool*

      The interviewer sounds like someone who has unknowingly eaten/drunk a LOT of well-deserved spit, etc. from restaurant workers. He sounds like someone who’s rude to anyone he thinks will have to put up with it.

      And I just realized that sounded like a slam on restaurant workers. I didn’t really mean it that way. It just makes me feel better to think of rude people having to eat a lot of spit.

  160. Pacific Blue*

    Wisdom and advice needed for professional crash-and-burn. I am a longtime educator who recently went on medical leave after a tumultuous experience in a new environment. The last several years have been particularly difficult, as I have experienced constant harassment, vandalism, assaults and threats – on top of defiance – by students. (Different districts, different demographics.) I’ve been given the toughest of class schedules – overloaded student rosters, kids with emotional disturbances put in general ed classrooms, students whose bullying caused their former teachers to take extended leaves from their positions. Add helicopter parents who go straight to the school board at the slightest teacher mistake, administrators who barely punish kids for throwing chairs or stealing classroom phones … and barely gave support. In short, the stress, depression and anxiety took a brutal toll, and the leave was humiliating (but could have been much, much worse).

    Thankfully, my health has been improving quickly. A wise physician detected some nutritional deficiencies, and I am taking pharma-grade supplements that have reduced my anxiety and restored some energy. My low thyroid levels are approaching normal range. Going to the gym has helped tremendously. Several months before my leave, I started attending a support group, as well as my pastor for spiritual support. (I am not opposed to taking psych drugs at all; they just don’t work for me.) Professionally, I’ve signed up for a couple of workshops, to stay current and to try to re-build a professional support network.

    I am flummoxed as to what to do next professionally. There are some aspects of teaching that I enjoy, and I don’t want to necessarily do something completely removed from education. However, the break from the traditional classroom is needed! I’d really love to hear from educators, and especially anyone who’s experienced something similar. How did you deal with “that” issue in interviews and discussions with potential employers? How long did it take you to find another position? Did you make any major life changes during that time (such as move to a different state)? For those of you who stayed in education, how did you turn a draining situation into something positive and less stressful?

    Any advice, wisdom, etc. that anyone can pass along is greatly appreciated.

    1. Relosa*

      I know someone who got into educational research after she had a teaching burnout.

      There’s always the option of going into tutoring. As you are the educator, I’m sure you know the pros and cons, but the best one I can think of is that not only are you your own boss, but you have control over the classroom – even if it’s just one student, and in the end you aren’t the one solely held responsible for the students’ success.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      I actually left a job recently that was very similar. I would say just try to find the right school—easier said than done, I know. At the same time, to a certain extent, it’s unavoidable. We’re probably at the worst point in education right now, with all sorts of educational buzzwords abounding (innovative 21-century flipped blended STEAM constructivist 1-to-1 iPad Maker 3D printer digital native intrinsic motivation EQ) and an increasingly entitled attitude among parents and students (not entitled to good teaching, as they should be, but to good grades and to no disciplinary consequences). I’d actually say the best gig I had as an educator was working an office job at a school and then coaching and being a club advisor and student advisor outside of that. I got to interact with and mentor the kids, but I didn’t have to deal with the grading, the lesson plans, the difficult parents (granted, few and far between, but the few don’t make it feel that way!) and all the rest of that stressful stuff. Best of luck to you!

    3. Dynamic Beige*

      How about tutoring? There seems to be a lot of companies that offer tutoring to high school (or younger) kids, not only Sylvan or Kumon but private ones as well.

  161. Avocado*

    I just got my first freelance database design gig for a non-profit org. This is not a career path I plan to pursue, but the opportunity arose and I went for. The non-profit has received a grant to create this database (they haven’t told me how much), and they’ve asked me to set the price.

    My problem is that I’ve never set a price before. I don’t know what I’m worth. I’ve always been offered a rate by people I’ve freelanced for before, and despite occasionally asking for a raise, I have basically no experience asking for money, and just contemplating it is bringing my imposter syndrome out in spades.

    Part of the problem is that I genuinely don’t know what this project is worth. I’ve searched online, and most consultants charge $80-100/hour to design an Access database for an organization, amounting to $1000-$5000 for most databases. But that’s quite a spread, and I’m embarrassed to admit I don’t know enough to know where on the spectrum this particular database falls.

    My other issue is that I’m new to the game, so I’m sure I’m going to spend more time creating this database than an established pro would doing the same work. I don’t want to end up costing them more than they’d pay for an established consultant, so I’m thinking about instead charging a flat fee for the completion of the database itself, and taking the hourly factor out of it altogether. Can other consultants tell me if this is wise or not? Am I shortchanging myself?

    Does anyone have any advice for how I can figure out what a database of this size and complexity is worth? Is my best bet to just talk to another database designer consultant?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Well part of the pricing has to do with, as you mentioned, the size and complexity of the specifications, so in your contract, you want to outline your understanding of the size and complexity and price accordingly. I wouldn’t explicitly say it’s hourly, but you should consider your time worth about $100/hour and then calculate to yourself how many hours you’ll likely work on the database, with your understanding of it. But in your contract, you also need to state that if the scope of the project changes, you’ll have to enter into a new contract.

      You can also use a hybrid model that says “Give me your specifications, I’ll build the database, and that first build will be $2,500. Once we start going beyond the initial build, I will charge $100/hour for any consultations and subsequent changes.” That way, you’re not punishing them for your taking a bit longer to build the database (it may, for example, take you more than 25 hours to set up the initial database). At the same time, if you give only a flat fee, that can lead to them taking advantage of you and making multiple rounds of changes or modifying the scope of the project and then still trying to pay you the same flat fee.

      Does that make sense?

      1. Avocado*

        It does make sense! I may try the hybrid model. That’s an option I hadn’t considered before. Thanks!

  162. MsChanandlerBong*

    Minor gripe:

    One of my clients insists on having conference calls to discuss minor project changes. They’re the client, so of course I’ll do whatever keeps them happy, but I have “mild” nerve-based hearing loss (my doctor classified it as mild, but I’d say intermediate based on the impact it has on my professional life), so I absolutely loathe these calls. Not only do I have trouble hearing, I just can’t imagine why anyone thinks it is easier to accomplish anything by having four people talking over each other on the phone (because you don’t get nonverbal cues for when someone else is about to start speaking) than it would be to type up a quick email. You can refer to the email again and again, and you have the info in writing so there are no misinterpretations based on misheard words. Half the time, at least one of the people on the call is driving down a highway or talking in some place that only has one bar of cell service, too.

    Certainly nothing terrible, just an annoyance of mine.

  163. I DO NOT ACTUALLY WORK WITH TODDLERS*

    Waaaaaaaugh. Today started out so well, but it seems like halfway through the afternoon everything just went downhill. Or over a cliff. Suffice it to say that my “classroom management skills” were not best on display, and at least some of it was in front of my boss. If I may speak in hyperbole for a moment:
    NO ONE LISTENS TO ME
    THERE’S ALWAYS A HUGE MESS
    DO ALL OF YOUR CHILDREN SCREAM ALL THE TIME?
    WHY CAN’T PEOPLE PICK UP AFTER THEMSELVES?
    GET OUT OF THAT CUPBOARD
    I SAID ONE PER PERSON
    PUT THAT DOWN; IT’S NOT YOURS
    CLOSE THAT DOOR, YOU’RE NOT ALLOWED IN THERE
    STOP SCREAMING
    PUT THAT DOWN – WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU’RE DOING??
    OMG STOP SAYING MY NAME A HUNDRED TIMES IN A ROW AND LET ME HAVE TEN FREAKIN MINUTES OF DOWNTIME
    I HATE EVERYTHING
    I AM TERRIBLE AT THIS JOB AND I SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN HIRED TO WORK WITH TEENAGERS
    ALSO TEENAGERS SUCK

    2. Pacific Blue*

      I think I’ve said nearly each of those things – and probably several of them at once – to seniors. It is not hyperbole; it is freaking reality. Hopefully, you have been spared from scrubbing out specific body parts drawn on table tops.

    3. catsAreCool*

      I think toddlers might actually be easier to deal with.

      I worked at a daycare center when I was a teenager, and having minimal, stable rules that were enforced kindly (time outs) but firmly and that were always enforced made a huge difference. Kids who were problems at other places did OK there.

      Sorry. Teenagers are tough. I remember feeling angry for no reason when I was in high school.

  164. NicoleK*

    Any program evaluators or data analysis folks on here? I need to figure out how to calculate caseload size per staff. This was suppose to be a task for new coworker but who knows when she’ll get to it. Where do I even start?

  165. DS*

    Hi! I’m in a probationary period (first 6 months) at a state government agency. I’ve been having some weird medical issues lately- The ones that have been relevant at work are that I passed out at work after having a bad reaction to an antibiotic and two doctor’s appointments several weeks apart. I know I’ll need to make an appointment for a doctor next week, who will probably refer me to a specialist. I also got some positive and some constructive feedback on Thursday (My work is good but I need to my improve my communication skills- I didn’t do well enough on a public presentation). I don’t like having to make all these doctor’s appointments, but I don’t really have a choice.. . Any advice on how to approach it with my boss? (I can take sick time for it, it’s just a lot in a short time).

  166. Beth*

    So on Monday, I get to have a talk with one of the supervisors about how it was inappropriate for her to invite her staff to her adult sex toy party.

    1. Kyrielle*

      …thank you for having that conversation, though I’m appalled that it’s needed, and you have my sympathy at having to do it.

  167. Explain My Manager*

    Long story short: My manager sent me a rather short yet reprimanding email about something in an email I had written her. Yet, I don’t know what she’s referring to and left that day feeling quite upset (I saw the email at the end of the day, and was caught very off guard). I decided to talk to her in person. However when I approached her to ask for a good time to discuss, she at first agreed for the next day, but when the next day came, she waited until late in the day to tell me to push the meeting until early next week. We didn’t have a concrete time, but now I have to wait until next week. Meanwhile, she has continued to compliment my work I’ve completed since her email. I’m still as confused as I was before, and I don’t understand why she didn’t talk to me in person in the first place (the email I think…key word think because her email is so vague…she is referring to has been misinterpreted). But now she’s putting off the meeting. Should I be worrying? Or is she going to try to dodge this? How much should I pursue it if she puts it off yet again?

    1. Beth*

      At some point you will have to decide to put it behind you. It could very much be that she had moved on to other concerns after making her comments. I would not overly fixate on it. You might just ask her “Is the email you sent something I should be concerned about going forward or are we good?”

  168. Emailer*

    Hi,
    I wanted to ask if I can email to my personal email word.doc or pdf.doc documents of employee agreements, non-exempt rules, and other company rule-setting from my workplace.
    I normally print these out at work. But I think sometimes it is more convenient to put them in my personal email, so that I can read them at home.

    1. Natalie*

      I don’t see why not. I do this all the time. Is there some specific reason you’re wondering if it’s not allowed?

      1. Emailer*

        Thank you for your answer, Natalie. I am still trying to learn most workplace norms.

    2. Sara*

      I don’t see why it would be a problem. I was provided with printed copies of similar documents at my job, with no expectation on the employer’s part that they would remain on company premises, so I would think that emailing soft copies to your home email address would be acceptable.

      And if your email is being monitored and someone asks about it, it’s perfectly valid to say that you wanted to have those documents for reference outside of work.

  169. These are live servitors under transient control.*

    Is anyone out there involved in the hiring of “full stack developers” or “front end developers”?

    It’s been a really strange job market of late. In some parts of the country there are many, many jobs and not enough applicants. I saw someone on another website who went to “bootcamp” for 3 months and was told that she could expect to get $60K/year. Whether or not she will get that, I don’t know, but I find the concept alarming, as $60K/year is WAY outrageous for someone whose only education is a 3 month “bootcamp”. I mean: are there any other jobs that pay that well with that kind of training?

    1. AnotherFed*

      YMMV, but where I work (complex projects that must be highly reliable), the bootcamp just won’t cut it. Sure, you know a programming language after bootcamp, but that’s the easiest part to learn. Bootcamp does not teach the years of math that goes into a good computer science degree, and that’s critical to making even simple programs work. The solutions to simple problems can easily be found on the internet, but not quite understanding the math you copy in is a great way to introduce bugs in your code. Bootcamp also doesn’t do as good a job teaching things like the software-hardware interface, which doesn’t matter too much right up until it’s a deal breaker because you don’t have the hardware specs you thought you’d have. In short, bootcamp to add some programming language skills to another degree/related background is one thing, but bootcamp alone is not so helpful.

      Too many of these bootcamp things seem to just be scamming people who don’t have the experience to know what they are and aren’t getting out of the program and what it’s really worth!

    2. CAA*

      Yes, I hire developers. Front-end devs earn less than full-stack devs in this area. A brand new front-end dev with a Bachelors in CS or Math and some internships can expect to earn $65K. A full-stack dev can start at $70K. Both can get more in Silicon Valley or LA.

      I wouldn’t hire an 18 year old high school grad with only a 3-month bootcamp, so I can’t say whether $60K is realistic for someone in that situation. I do know a lot of people who’ve started out without a 4-year degree doing freelance web design and dev with WordPress, learning JavaScript and CSS frameworks, and maybe picking up some PHP skills along the way. These people can add a bootcamp, get a job in an agency, and earn $60K by their mid-20’s. Their careers are pretty limited though as it’s hard to move on to a more “architected” environment.

  170. Maria*

    Hello! Last Tuesday I met the GM of HQ for an interview and overall it went well. I asked her if after that discussion, she can offer me the job and she replied positively saying that they need someone ASAP. She promised to get back to me in 2 weeks time. She plus the other person in the interview were already discussing with me future plans, such as – when I should start, plan to send to their HQ for 2 wks for training, etc.

    My question is, at the moment, I am thinking of filing my resignation tomorrow even without hearing from them yet. Is that okay?

    Please advise.

    Thank you!

    1. Maritza*

      Noooooooooooo. Nope. No. Don’t do this.

      Do not give notice at your current job until you have a definite “congratulations, you got the job” notice for a new position. If you tender your resignation now, and in two weeks it turns out you didn’t actually get the position, you will be without a job. That’s not where you want to be. Believe nothing is definite until you have a solid, verifiable offer, because until you have that things can still change.

      If you’re worried about the transition, your potential new employer will (or at the very least, should be) understanding about the customary two weeks, if and when you do get an offer. They should be quite prepared for you to say “great, I’ll just need the standard two weeks for my current employer” or something to that effect if they know you’re leaving another position elsewhere for this one.

      1. Maria*

        Many thanks Maritza! I appreciate your feedback. I will wait then until I hear from them. :) You are right in all your points above.

      2. Apollo Warbucks*

        Everything Maritza said

        And if they put any pressure on you to quit without two weeks notice to your new employer you should resist that anf tell them you plan to do two weeks notice as is customary. Your professional reputation is something to look after, you never know when you’ll need a reference or maybe even work with someone from your current job again.

        1. Maria*

          Thank you Apollo. I will keep that in mind.

          Here in UAE, I will need to give 1 month notice as per Labor Law. The interviewer mentioned that they are looking at 15-Sep as my starting date.

          At any rate, like what Maritza has mentioned earlier, unless I have a solid job offer anything can happen in between..

          I appreciate your time and thoughts on this!

  171. AcademicAnon*

    If you have skills and/or a degree how do you go about signing up and getting employed by a temp or staffing company? I just need something to do, and I really am OK with doing simple or even more advance clerical work or data entry, but I really don’t want to work someplace where I was only doing something like sales or CSR.

    1. Kerr*

      Do a search for staffing agencies in your area, find one (or more) that look interesting, and fill out the application! It’s usually that simple. Then they’ll contact you to schedule an interview/testing/etc. Either that, or they’ll have a contact form or email for you to submit your resume instead of an application.

      In my experience, applying to a staffing agency isn’t the hard part. Waiting for a temp job to show up (and the right temp job, if you’re being picky) can be easy or difficult, depending on your area’s economy at the moment.

  172. CanadianNatasha*

    I may be too late for this thread, but how on earth do you write a cover letter when you are applying for (basically) the same job you already have? Specifically- government work going from permanent part-time to permanent full-time in the same office and unit. (Permanent part-time doesn’t actually involve hours by the way. It’s government double-talk for slightly less benefits.) Since we’re talking about bureaucracy, the rather pointless cover letter is a required part of the online application process.

    Anybody run into a situation like this before?

    1. BRR*

      If you already know everybody you can at least get away with it being good and not great in my opinion.

      I’d just talk about what you’ve done in this position and how you could expand your achievements working full-time. Throw in why you enjoy doing what you do and you should get enough.

      1. CanadianNatasha*

        Thanks for your reply BRR. The number of hours I’d work and the job type don’t actually change. That’s why it is such an awkward letter to write. I think you’re right that I shouldn’t worry too much about it being excellent; Honestly, I don’t know if my employers even really care about the cover letters (especially with seniority/union rules dictating a fair bit of the hiring process).

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