weekend open thread – February 22-23, 2025 by Alison Green on February 21, 2025 This comment section is open for any non-work-related discussion you’d like to have with other readers, by popular demand. Here are the rules for the weekend posts. Book recommendation of the week: The Safekeep, by Yael van der Wouden. When her brother’s girlfriend comes to stay with her in the Netherlands, a woman’s post-war life is upended. (Amazon, Bookshop) * I earn a commission if you use those links. You may also like:all of my 2023 and 2024 book recommendationsall of my book recommendations from 2015-2022the cats of AAM { 179 comments }
open thread – February 21, 2025 by Alison Green on February 21, 2025 It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on any work-related questions that you want to talk about (that includes school). If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to take your questions to other readers. * If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer. You may also like:the new hire who showed up is not the same person we interviewedmy boss is having sex in the officehere's a bunch of help finding a new job { 957 comments }
my new job has so much drama it made the news, out-of-order bathroom, and more by Alison Green on February 21, 2025 It’s four answers to four questions. Here we go… 1. My new job has so much drama it made the local news I started a job as an accounting manager less than a month ago. I had been out of work for a while. I was let go at my previous job, I think because my boss didn’t like or need me. I’m a quiet, anxious person and she was the opposite. I was still on probation there and it was a shock. So, I’ve been looking for a new position but also working contract and doing well. I interviewed for one particular job I thought was a good fit. The hiring manager and I hit it off right away. I felt she was an empathetic, kind leader. She offered me the position, but I also received an offer from the company I was contracting with (for more money). I’ve been in some really bad work situations in the past, and I have a bit of trauma from it. I declined the job with the contractor and accepted the other one based on my rapport with the boss and the mission of the organization, which appealed to me. On my first day, my boss was working from home. Then the rest of that week, she worked from home. I finally asked her about it, and she said there had been some accusations of a “toxic workplace” towards her and her boss and she was working from home for her “protection.” One night shortly after I started, I was watching the news and there was a news story about the accusations of toxicity and mishandling of clients from nine of the 15 or so workers in my organization. They were interviewed anonymously on the news. I’m wondering if I should just start looking elsewhere? I fear my boss, whom I still like, will be fired. Knowing she is mostly the reason I took this job (and a pay cut) what do you think would be my best option? Whoa, I can see why you’re alarmed! But before you decide on any action, ideally you’d get a lot more information. Luckily, there are a lot of people you can talk to, and none of them are going to be even slightly surprised that you want to; if anything, they assume it’s coming. Talk to your boss! Talk to your coworkers! If there are other senior leaders besides your boss, talk to them too. All you need to say is, “I saw the news story and hadn’t known anything about the situation previously. Can you fill me in on what’s going on?” Take everything you hear with grains of salt, since everyone will have their own agendas — but ask people to share their perspectives with you. What you know so far sounds pretty damning — but it’s possible there’s more to it that would paint a different picture. Then again, even if the people making the accusations are off-base, the organization is likely in for a rocky road for a while as it works through whatever is going on. If you think you’d want the other job you were offered, you can reach back out to that company and ask if the offer is still available. The sooner you do that, the higher the chances of it still being open … but once you do that, you should be ready to take it. (Also, never take a job based just on a good feeling about the hiring manager. This is true for everyone, but especially since you’re someone who’s actively trying to avoid another bad situation. Managers can come across very differently in interviews than what they’re actually like to work for. Here’s some advice on how to spot bad jobs ahead of time.) 2. Working from home while men’s bathroom is out of order If a company allows its male employees to work from home for a couple days while the men’s restroom in the office is closed for repairs, but does not offer a similar benefit to female employees (because their restroom still works), is this gender discrimination? Ordinarily, allowing men to work remotely but not women obviously would be very illegal, but in this case there’s a very good reason to allow the men to (in fact, forcing them to come in to the office when the bathroom is broken would probably violate OSHA) that doesn’t apply to the women. You’d need an employment lawyer to tell you for sure, but I wouldn’t think the company has much legal risk, given the set of facts. The remote work on those days isn’t being offered as a perk; it’s in place because there will be no available bathroom facilities for those employees. The most likely risk to them would be if they have denied intermittent work-from-home as a disability accommodation and claimed that it’s not possible for any of these roles; since it’s apparently possible when they see it as useful, this would be fodder for anyone who wanted to push back on that. 3. I get flooded with canned LinkedIn messages every time I post a job I lead a recruitment team in a mid-sized manufacturing firm. We are inundated with resumes for almost every role (which is a good problem to have!), but I dread posting IT openings, even though that is my favorite area to recruit for. Within minutes of posting developer roles, I will get 50+ canned LinkedIn messages that all say the same thing: “My X experience at Z makes me a great candidate for this role! Are you open to a call to discuss how I can help your company?” In fact, I am NOT open to a call. I have 400+ resumes sitting in our ATS to sift through and my limited interview spots will be given to candidates who have taken the time to apply online so that I can review their resume/application. I have always made a point to respond kindly to every LinkedIn message (other than spam) because I know how difficult and demoralizing a job search can be, but I am finding myself increasingly frustrated. How can I respond kindly in a way that lets them know that while they think they are giving themselves an edge by approaching recruiters with a canned message, 400 of their competitors have completed online applications for my recruitment team to review? To be clear, there are some occasions where I welcome these messages, such as roles that require a unique skill set or if they are having difficulty with the application, etc. These are not that. Suggestions? Relieve yourself of any feeling of obligation to respond to those messages and just delete them. They’re the hiring equivalent of spam and, just as you don’t reply to spammers to explain why their approach is ineffective, you don’t need to reply to these messages either. If you really want to reply, you could say, “Please submit an application on our website and we’d be glad to consider you” — but frankly I wouldn’t even do that, as it increases the likelihood that they’ll continue to use LinkedIn messages to try to pitch themselves outside of the system you’ve set up for considering candidates. You’ve told people how to apply. The ones who want to will follow those instructions. You don’t need to spend extra time funneling people over there when they’ve ignored that. 4. HR hasn’t kept up with local employment regulations I work in the New York office of a consulting company with 1,000 employees across more than 30 locations in the U.S., Europe, and Asia. At the end of December, I saw an article about how all private employers in New York, regardless of size, will be required to offer at least 20 hours of paid prenatal leave to all employees as of January 1, 2025. I had heard nothing about an update to my employer’s leave policies, so I emailed the HR department to ask how much paid prenatal leave the company would be offering, as well as more granular details about the policy’s implementation. The HR department replied saying they had no knowledge of this state regulation and would have to look into it. I was quite surprised by their admission of ignorance. They are now working on updating the company’s policies but told me it won’t “go live” on our internal site until February. HR has also consistently dodged my questions about how they are going to make people aware of this new policy, instead deflecting by saying they’ll update the internal policy site. I don’t think anyone is regularly checking that site, so I assume they are intending for this benefit to slip under the general radar. Is it reasonable to expect an HR department to (1) ensure the company is compliant with the laws of the places where it does business; (2) ensure that employees are made aware of updates to employment policies? I’ve never been impressed with our HR department – in my time at the company, they’ve been generally obstructive, misinformed current employees on immigration matters, and protected illegal behavior. I know all of that is coloring my view of their competence and of this particular interaction. But it seems wild that I should be informing HR of how to remain in compliance with state regulations! I’m also wondering how much I can do to make sure my colleagues – not only in New York, but also in other U.S. locations – are aware of this policy. I’ve been keeping my cohort informed, but would it be out of pocket to send an email with a link to the new policy (whenever it goes live) to my whole office if HR won’t? It is reasonable to expect an HR department to ensure the company is compliant with the law in the places where it does business. That is, in fact, a key responsibility of HR. It’s also reasonable to expect that they will share changes to employment policies. That said, it’s surprisingly common for companies to miss changes in employment law that will affect them, particularly if they have employees in multiple jurisdictions. It shouldn’t be common— at a minimum, there are subscription services that will alert employers to legal changes in the states where they operate, and any company with employees in multiple locations should be using those if they’re not monitoring on their own — but it happens way more than it should. Regardless, once your company became aware of the new requirement, they should have acted with more urgency; the law went into effect January 1, not a month later. A “good news — new benefit for New York employees” message to your coworkers wouldn’t be out of line. You may also like:the men in our office use the women's bathrooms ... only for poopingwhen giving good news, my boss first pretends to be upset as a "joke"I don't want to tell my boss I'm quitting until after I tell the rest of my team { 338 comments }
how to answer “is there anything that would prevent you from accepting an offer?” by Alison Green on February 20, 2025 A reader writes: I recently had a recruiter reach out to me about a job. I’m not really looking right now, but I figured I’d see what they had to say. I had my first interview virtually, and progressed a few days later to an in-person interview. It went well, but towards the end, the hiring manager asked if there was anything that would prevent me from accepting an offer if it were extended. Am I wrong to hate this question? Side note: the recruiter had been very clear that I shouldn’t ask any questions about what the company can do for me in the interviews, as they would handle all negotiations for me. So while I did know the proposed salary, I knew nothing else about the benefits the company provided. I was therefore pretty uncomfortable answering this question, but basically said depending on the offer, I couldn’t think of any other reason not to accept. I’m not proud of this, but that’s not strictly true. I did have some reservations, but how do you bring that up in an interview without tanking your chances? I work for a good company right now. Some things that could be better of course, but it’s not horrible by any means. There is obviously an opportunity cost to leaving the benefits and environment I’m sure about for something unknown. And I wasn’t even actively looking! There are myriad reasons why someone might turn down a job offer and I felt almost cornered. It left a bad taste in my mouth. Ultimately, after receiving more information on the company benefits, which are almost all worse than where I’m at now, I withdrew my candidacy. I’m just wondering how interviewers expect people to answer that question. It feels like a gotcha. I’d love to know your thoughts. It’s not a gotcha. It’s an attempt to find out if you have any concerns that they can address for you, and to gauge your level of interest. It’s also an attempt to find out if there might be obstacles to you accepting that they’d rather know about now, like “I expect my employer will counter-offer” — which isn’t something you’re obligated to share, but they’re not wrong to be interested in knowing — or “I’m considering moving out of the country in May so I’ll need to figure that out first.” Perfectly fine answers include things like: * “I did want to know more about the balance of X work and Y work in the role. What portion of the person’s time do you expect will be spent on each?” * “I haven’t had an opportunity yet to talk with the person I’d be reporting to, and I’d want to do that before accepting an offer. Will there be an opportunity for that in the hiring process?” * “I know a lot of companies in the industry are struggling with X. How has the team been approaching that?” * “I’d need to see the specific details of the offer, of course, but based on what I know so far, I’m very interested in the role.” You may also like:I got a job offer -- then found out they're negotiating with another candidate toowhen recruiters ask, "how did the interview go?"am I obligated to tell interviewers that I'm considering other jobs? { 118 comments }
updates: the gossipy ex-coworker, I don’t want to hire a friend, and more by Alison Green on February 20, 2025 Here are four updates from past letter-writers. 1. Retired coworker keeps coming back to gossip (#3 at the link) Unfortunately, the retired coworker is someone who will take offense at any direct request to be left alone to do work. He would go up and down the hallway talking loudly to other people about how “So-and-So told me to get lost!!!!” and cause even more of a ruckus. My supervisor is often not there to see what is happening, and was not effective in dealing with him before he retired. (Example: He told our supervisor, “I don’t attend meetings because that’s what works for me,” and she let him keep up that behavior.) But the good news is, some of the other people the retired coworker liked to bother also retired, and we got some new upper-level management that he may be a little wary of, so he has not been coming in as often. I still get e-mails from him asking about office gossip, but those are much easier to deal with than his in-person disruptions. I either don’t reply or answer in a bland manner, not contributing to, confirming, or denying any gossip. This has effectively taken his obsession with office gossip off my plate. 2. How do I give notice at a job I’m passionate about? (#5 at the link) I was, in fact, offered the job I was interviewing for. And giving notice was…not without hiccups! I was informed by my new company that in order to be eligible for a year end bonus, I needed to start no later than September 30. I had been explicit throughout the interview process that I wanted to give at least 3 weeks of notice- I really was the linchpin for the program I was building and knew more notice would be the best way to set my boss and colleagues up for success. However, given how long the background check took, I couldn’t give notice until September 13, to provide only 2 weeks. The issue? My boss was set to leave the country on September 19, and would be gone the whole rest of the following week, basically providing only 3 days of transition with her in the office. Remembering your frequent advice that people leave all the time and sometimes timing is bad, but folks just manage, I delivered this news as matter-of-factly as possible. Boss was Not Pleased. Not pleased with me for leaving at all, not pleased with the notice timing, really just upset all around. However, I held firm- I would be foregoing a bonus if I chose to start later than September 30! And that was the plan, until…the woman who runs my division at my new company inquired how my giving notice had gone. I told her the story, including my boss’s international trip. New company and old company are close partners in the same industry, and new company didn’t want to damage the relationship with the old company, so division head was quite concerned. (Without exaggeration, I can say this was one of the most stressful times of my professional life, worrying that both companies- both of which I respect greatly!- were unhappy with me.) Division head pulled some strings with HR to allow me to receive a “signing bonus” that was more or less commensurate with what I would have received at year end, and so I provided an additional week’s worth of notice, working 3 weeks total, one week after my old boss returned to the country. My old boss remained cool towards me for leaving, though we are professionals in a small industry- she can’t avoid working with me in the future. I’ll say that I absolutely worked my tush off during my notice period to set my colleagues up for success as best I could, and as I was documenting it all, even I was shocked by how much had been on my plate. I know they were already discussing breaking my role into 2; if they’d asked me, I would have advised 3, because 2 people would be able to handle everything I was doing, but the 3rd person would have been able to get to all the things I wanted to do or should have been doing, but just didn’t have time. I’m not sure how they plan to pay these folks- I was underpaid for how much I was doing already- but I suppose that’s not my problem. I took my nearly 40% pay increase and went to work for a company I had already deeply admired, doing work I’m excited about with people I really enjoy working with. Thanks to you and the commenters for reassuring me that it really was okay to move on. I wish I could have finished building what we started at my old company, but I’m delighted to be working for a company where the workload expectations are reasonable, and they’re paying me so much more. 3. Do I have to use the phone for my freelance client? (#2 at the link) Edwina called me a few more times about potential projects, but each time they ended up not going ahead for various reasons. I finally realized that she needs to talk through projects and her feelings in order to wrap her head around what to do — meaning she does on the phone with me what most people do on their own before deciding to hire a freelancer. I imagine she’s one of those people you find in every office who is extremely nice but you have to plan an escape route from when you’re busy. In the end, someone else has taken over the projects I do regularly for this client, and we have settled into a nice routine of her emailing me the project to ask if I can take it, and me answering yes and then emailing it back when it’s ready. So I didn’t end up taking anyone’s advice specifically, but have come to better understand Edwina’s motivations, and hopefully I can steer the conversation back into focus if we work together again. I also have a friend who stopped working with a freelance client after she couldn’t take the client calling to destress over projects all the time. My friend absorbed it all and then could no longer function, so that also helped me inform how to draw a line between what’s included in my work and what isn’t. It’s a flexible line, of course, but I think there’s value in examining it now and then and evaluating how clients fill or drain us. 4. My friend applied for a job reporting to me and I don’t want to hire her (#4 at the link) I got quite lucky in the end and didn’t have to have too hard of a conversation. In her application, friend’s salary expectation was way above our range, which was a great way for me to describe to her that the role was quite junior and wouldn’t be a good fit. She was at a point where she was coming to the end of a contract and getting a little worried about finding her next gig so said she’d take anything but I don’t think she meant this low of a salary and within a few days she’d gotten something way more appropriate. So she never made it through initial screening and I didn’t need to talk to my boss about her. Her new role has its challenges but the workplace is nicer so although she might still get sucked into things that don’t really affect her, she’s also less negative than she used to be. And I’m totally amenable to listening to a friend vent! So she and I are still great friends. You may also like:our employee retired ... but now she won't leaveupdates: un-retiring, the paranoid employee, and moreI now manage the guy who hired me -- and I'm afraid he might quit over it { 40 comments }
ask the readers: moving from nonprofit to for-profit work by Alison Green on February 20, 2025 It’s the Thursday “ask the readers” question. A reader writes: I would love to hear stories from people who made the transition from nonprofit work to for-profit work, as I am considering that transition myself. I’ve only ever worked in this sector and have a master’s in Nonprofit Management (not even an MBA) so the idea of changing sectors is really overwhelming, but I know people have done it before. Readers who have made this transition, please share advice in the comment section. You may also like:my husband keeps contacting my coworkers about funding his nonprofithow do I adjust to not being the boss anymore?how much stuff can I "move in with" on my first day at a new job? { 173 comments }
can I go back to my old job, employees share an office and don’t get along, and more by Alison Green on February 20, 2025 It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go… 1. I hate my new job — can I go back to my old one? I worked at a company for over three years. Internally they have their issues and I had my share of frustrations, but it is basically a well oiled machine. As far as growth, there is not much, but I was paid well and had flexibility with my hours, although absolutely no work from home and an hour commute each way. Three months ago, a colleague who worked with me at this company and left two years prior, asked me to send my resume to her so she could pass it along to her boss. She only had good things to say about her new company so I thought it was a no-brainer when I interviewed and got the job with a 10% increase in pay and a hybrid schedule. I started the new job three weeks ago, and I am absolutely miserable. I miss my old job, my work, even the colleagues and the frustrations. I am mourning my old life and I want it back. I am also upset with this colleague who presented this new position to me because there are a ton of red flags and it is not a happy place like she said. I really did not plan to be in a position to now be searching for work, but here I am. Do you think it’s worth reaching out to my old manager and seeing if they will accept me back in my old role? As far as I know, they still have not filled the position. I was a good employee there but had a couple minor complaints about personal stuff — too much socializing with another employee, bad attitude during times of stress, but never any issues with my work or work ethic. I am depressed and having trouble sleeping and eating, completely consumed with how to get back to my old job. Please help! How much of this is about missing the old job and/or the discomfort of change, and how much is about truly not liking the new job? It might be 100% the latter, but I can’t completely tell from your letter — so I want to make sure you’ve thought that through, because sometimes it can be the change itself and/or missing what’s familiar and comfortable that’s more of the issue. If that’s the case, the solution is to give it more time so that this job starts feeling more comfortable to you, too. But if you’re confident the problem is the new job and it’s not right for you … you can certainly contact your old manager and ask about the possibility of your coming back. Sometimes people do that! They might or might not be open to it (too much socializing and bad attitude during times of stress could be pretty minor or they could be pretty big), but there’s nothing wrong with asking. Keep in mind that they’ll probably want some assurance that you’ll stay for a while and not immediately be looking again. There’s also a third option, of staying where you are while looking for a new job (not going back to the old one), which would give you some time to see if you get more used to the new company while you’re actively working on other options. Right now you’re so focused on missing the old job in comparison to the new one that there’s a risk you’re not thinking critically about the frustrations you had there. It might also be interesting to talk to the colleague who recruited you about what your experience has been at the company so far. It’s possible she’ll have some insight that will change your perspective, or at least help you sort through why you’re having such a different experience there than she’s had. Related: I just started my new job and I miss my old one — did I make a mistake? how to ask for your old job back 2. Instructor said, “Just lie back and think of England” I am a woman in a mostly male field, if it matters. Recently I was taking an online course to pursue a certification (which I got! Woo), and the instructor made a comment about ignoring something. Specifically he said, “Just lie back and think of England.” I thought that was a horribly sexist/gross thing to say! Especially as an instructor! (For the record, I think “open kimono” is equally appalling.) I sent him an email that afternoon remarking about my thoughts and advising him to look up that particular phrase and how it could be offensive. I never got a reply, and then felt awkward completing the class for the next few days. Was I out of line? No, that’s a gross and inappropriate phrase for an instructor to use. For anyone who’s unaware of its origins, it comes from a suggestion that a woman should submit to sexual activity from her spouse even if she’d prefer not to, because of her duties as a wife (and patriot!). You were not out of line to point that out, and he should have replied to thank you (or at a minimum to say he didn’t mean to make anyone uncomfortable and would be more aware of his language in the future, or so forth). His silence says something about him, not you, and you don’t need to feel awkward. 3. Is expecting an interview on very short notice a bad sign? Yesterday, at 4:45 pm, I received an email requesting an interview for today between 9 am and 11 am or at 2 pm. I also received a phone call around 10 minutes later. I responded to the email around 5:05 pm, stating I’d be available at 9:15 am today for an interview. I did not receive a reply until this morning at 8:45. The person scheduling the interview said they were sorry they didn’t see my email earlier and asked if I could do 2:30. I can’t so I emailed back saying no and gave other days/times I could. She responded saying that the program director is going on vacation tonight, so they’d like to schedule something today and asked if I could be available at 9:30 or 10 today. While I understand a vacation making things difficult to schedule, I am getting a bad taste of this organization and the job. What say you? Is it a bad sign for this kind of rush job? Nah, not really. It’s annoying — and if they’re going to email you at the end of the workday proposing an interview for the start of the following day, they really need a plan for checking email that evening to see if you chose that time — but it doesn’t necessarily carry any larger message about the company. It could be a disorganized scheduler and nothing else, or just a rush for legitimate reasons to see if they can get some of the interviews done before the director leaves. It’s not necessarily anything bigger than that. If you can’t be available on their short notice, you can’t. But I wouldn’t read much into it. If you advance in the process and continue to see signs of disorganization or of “my emergency needs to be your emergency,” that would be different. 4. Two employees share an office and don’t get along I am a new supervisor and have recently had three employees move under my supervision. At the same time as this transition, two employees moved into a shared office space. (This was a decision made by upper management and it makes sense based on their job duties.) The problem is these two employees do not get along whatsoever and frankly never have. “Sharon” is extremely passive-aggressive when given advice on dealing with situations and is running around the whole company complaining about everything from the shared office to flat-out saying rude things about “Lisa.” It’s extremely unprofessional and needs to stop. I plan to have a sit-down meeting with Sharon to talk about these issues. I want her to understand I will not tolerate this behavior. I suspect she will put blame on Lisa. She’s mentioned Lisa saying things like “you didn’t give me condolences when my mother-in-law passed away” or “I don’t believe my plants were the cause of your so-called allergies.” These comments very well could have happened, so I also plan to sit down with Lisa. I just don’t know the appropriate way to respond when that’s brought up, because while that’s an issue that needs to be addressed, it doesn’t excuse the negativity that she’s spreading around the company. You should hear her out about Lisa in case there’s something truly egregious that you need to know about and address. But then you should say, “I will be talking with Lisa separately, but this meeting is about my expectations for your behavior and I’m asking you to focus on that right now.” 5. How honest can I be that I need more WFH days if I’m going to stay? I currently work from home one day a week. Due to a lack of affordability in our area and the space we need, my family have decided to move out of the town where my office is based, a 1.5-hour commute away. I would like to request an extra day working from home. My bosses have been very lukewarm-to-negative about remote work, but on the other hand there are other people in the office working more remote days than I would be requesting, albeit in a different department. So I’m going to request the extra day, but how honest should I be about what the impact of the decision would have on me staying with the company? They are entitled to say no to to the request, but the reality would be that I would start looking at new jobs. How honest should I be about that? It depends 100% on how valued you are and how much capital you have. The more they’d be upset to lose you, the more up-front you can be — and even then I’d frame it as “this is something that would let me happily stay with the company long-term,” not as “I’ll need to start job-searching if you say no,” particularly since you can’t control how long that search will take. A decent manager will read between those lines without you having to spell it out more explicitly than that. You may also like:are two-hour commutes normal?I shared a room with a coworker on a work trip, and their respirator kept me awake all weekshould I push back against getting annual bonuses instead of raises? { 269 comments }
my new job is making me work far more weekends than I was told when I was hired by Alison Green on February 19, 2025 A reader writes: In August of 2024, I left behind TV news reporting to become a social media manager for museums in my city. My career in TV news was full of manipulation, toxicity, long hours, and missed holidays. My new job was a standard 9-5, with occasional weekend events for a few hours. It was the boring job I needed. The local theater and museum (they are combined and owned by the same company) took an interest in me, and the CEO offered me a job with them. I was told I would need to work weekends about once a month for shows, and I was okay with that. After looking at the schedule posted to the theater’s website, I decided I was okay with working a few weekends. So, I accepted, excited for the opportunity to grow in this company. I emailed my soon-to-be boss a list of dates I was unavailable that I knew shows were on. I asked for a schedule of all events, but was told, “We’ll talk about it when you start here.” Well, I started in January and they gave me the event schedule, and I see why they waited to do it until after I started. There is something every. single. weekend. This schedule is DOUBLE the amount on the website. Everyone failed to mention that we host private events, some two weeks long. There were things like my baby sister’s birthday party that I didn’t ask off for and family weekends because I thought we were closed! I feel betrayed and lied to. And when I brought it up, I got the stereotypical “we are an events venue and you are expected to be at these events.” It felt very reminiscent of my job in TV news, where we were expected to devote our life’s to our jobs. If I had known about the private events (some of which are 12- to 16-hour days), I would have never accepted this position. My new boss told me I would only work two shows a month on my first day, but when I asked for additional days off after receiving the schedule, I was told, “Aside from the days you previously sent me, I would expect to work every other event day.” I didn’t leave TV news to still be unable to see my family. I can’t tell if I’ve been fooled or if I should have expected this, and I don’t know what to say to anyone that won’t result in me being fired. I don’t see why you should have expected it when you were told you would need to work one weekend a month. You took them at their word. The problem is they apparently lied to you. The question now is: if these schedule requirements aren’t going to change, do you still want the job? What you should do depends on that answer. If you’re willing to leave over it, you can be extremely assertive about it. Sit down with your boss and say: “When I was being hired, I was told I’d need to work one weekend a month and I accepted the job on that basis. I couldn’t have accepted if I’d been told I would be expected to work every other weekend. Since that’s not possible for me with my commitments outside of work, how should we proceed?” If she says it’s not flexible and you’ll need to work every other weekend regardless of what you were promised, then you should say, “If there’s no flexibility on that, it’s not a position I can stay in. What is your preference on how we proceed from here?” A big caveat: even if your boss says she’ll let you off the hook for some of these events, you should still proceed with a lot of caution. Unless her attitude is “this was a terrible miscommunication and I’m so sorry it happened and we want to work this out,” it’s highly likely that you’ll end up being pressured to work more weekends than you want to, regardless of what she says now. If you’re not willing to leave over it … well, first, I think you should be! They lured you into this job under false pretenses, so even if you’re not in a position to leave tomorrow, you should be actively looking for another job so you can get out. But if you need to stay meanwhile, you’d do a softer version of the above, which would mean something like: “When I was being hired, I was told I’d need to work one weekend a month and I accepted the job on that basis. I couldn’t have accepted if I’d been told I’d be working every other weekend. What’s the best way to resolve this?” If she says there’s no changing it now, you could say, “I can try to find some flexibility in my schedule, but since I was brought on with the promise of one weekend a month, are you able to give me some flexibility in return? Can we work out a schedule that is closer to what I was told would be required?” Maybe that will cut down on some of your weekend scheduling while you’re stuck there, maybe it won’t, but it’s worth a try. Also! Who told you originally that you’d only be working one weekend a month? If that was a different person than your current boss, and if they are higher up than your current boss is, it’s worth going back to them, explaining what’s happened, and asking if they can intervene on your behalf, as the person who promised you that. They may or may not be willing/able to, but it’s worth a try given their role in what happened. You may also like:I feel guilty that I'm out of the office so much -- and I've heard grumbling from my staffI organize orgies -- can I talk about it in my job hunt?my office got us turtles to take care of and bring home on weekends { 176 comments }
employee’s girlfriend visits him at work every day by Alison Green on February 19, 2025 A reader writes: I manage a small independent business. We recently brought on a young new hire, “Jim.” There are usually only three of us working. Jim’s girlfriend works from home and has been coming in every day to bring him lunch. At first it was fine, but they started to be very affectionate towards one another — for example, kissing multiple times, which is extremely audible. One morning they got into a fight, and when she brought him his lunch they decided to hash their fight out in our office. They never do this in front of clients, but I finally put my foot down and asked him to not bring personal arguments into the workspace and to limit his affection with his girlfriend. His reply was that he’s a human being and he doesn’t have enough time when he gets home to work things out. His solution to the affection is that he and his girlfriend walk outside. He does not get a lunch break because he has to be on the premises due to regulations, so he is on the clock when they go outside, usually for 15-20 minutes at a time. I’m second-guessing myself since my decision to confront him didn’t get the point across. I answer this question — and two others — over at Inc. today, where I’m revisiting letters that have been buried in the archives here from years ago (and sometimes updating/expanding my answers to them). You can read it here. Other questions I’m answering there today include: Am I wrong for rejecting a candidate because of their email address? Candidates sending additional exercises we didn’t ask for You may also like:is my girlfriend's CEO hitting on her?my coworker is trying to get me transferred so his girlfriend can have my jobis it OK to have sex while working from home? { 267 comments }
my new employee feels excluded on a well-meaning but cliquey team by Alison Green on February 19, 2025 A reader writes: I am a manager on a team where there are two managers and five individual contributors: Buffy, Cordelia, Xander, Willow, and Anya. Buffy and Willow are very good friends. They joined the team at around the same time, about two years ago. Cordelia joined the team just under a year ago and quickly got adopted by Buffy and Willow as “one of the gang.” They have similar tastes and are always lending each other books, talking about shared interests, etc. Xander has been in and out of the team, but is well integrated socially with the others. Anya joined the team straight out of college in September. She had been an intern here during college, but on a different team. She enjoyed it enough to want to come back when she was hired permanently after graduation. She said she was looking forward to joining our team because it skews young (Buffy, Cordelia, and Xander are all in their 20s and Willow is in her 40s but acts younger). Before Anya joined, Buffy, Willow, and Cordelia were vociferous about how excited they were and how they wanted her to feel like a member of the team. Unfortunately, they have certain habits that exclude Anya (for example, they all go for coffee together but Anya only drinks tea). There was also an incident a couple of months ago where Anya was catching up with an old contact from her internship days, without knowing that this contact was Cordelia’s ex-boyfriend. There was nothing inappropriate about Anya and Cordelia’s ex having a catch-up meeting, and indeed I would have encouraged Anya if I knew, because it’s good for her to have a wide network. But apparently the others found out when they saw the meeting in Anya’s Outlook and gave her a bit of a hard time, possibly insinuating that she was trying to date the ex herself (which there is no evidence of). (I have only thirdhand information about this incident and only one side of the story.) Anya has been very unhappy almost since she started, but hadn’t said anything to me or the other manager. She told someone from her previous team about it, and that person spoke to his manager, who spoke to the other manager in our team, so it’s now all come out. According to the manager in that team, Anya was very outgoing during her internship, but the other manager and I have found her reserved from day one on our team, which we just assumed was her personality. I think there may be some feedback loops going on where Anya is quiet and the others forget she’s there and don’t include her, which leads her to withdraw further. I spoke to Anya today, and she is desperately unhappy and wants to move to a different team. The other manager and I think we can address it with Buffy, Willow, and Cordelia. We think that if they knew they were making Anya feel excluded, they would change their behavior. We wouldn’t make it a disciplinary issue or anything, but more ask what they can do to change the dynamic. (We’ve also agreed that if they’re told about the behavior and continue to make Anya feel excluded, that could become a disciplinary issue, but right now they seem to be completely unaware.) The difficulty is that Anya doesn’t want us to talk to the team members because she thinks it will rebound on her. I have told her that unless I identify the problem/pattern with them and ask them for help in solving it, it’s not going to magically get any better. I have also pointed out that working in a medium-sized company, she could move now only to find that later she has to work with one of the others and that will be harder if things don’t get addressed now. The other manager and I are also concerned that moving would reflect badly on Anya, particularly because new graduates in our company normally stay in their first role for two years. Anya seems paranoid that the others are gossiping about her, but aside from the ex-boyfriend incident, I think they are probably being self-absorbed, not mean. Last week, we had a work social event and Anya left early without saying much. The next morning, Cordelia contacted me to find out if I knew why Anya had left early and if she was feeling okay. So I do have evidence that team members care about Anya and want her to feel included (even if their behavior isn’t making that happen). Anya is clear that she doesn’t blame me or the other manager and acknowledges that she could have spoken to us directly and earlier. But she also wants to leave the team and get a fresh start. I have told her that even if she leaves, we probably need to address the situation with the other team members so no one is treated the way she has been treated in the future. She said she will go away and think about it, but if she doesn’t want us to speak to the other team members, can/should we do it anyway? Would it be better to let her have the fresh start (even if it looks bad to the team/other managers)? Can I help her be more resilient? I hope you didn’t promise Anya that it’s her call whether you talk to the others about what’s happening, because as the team’s manager you need to be able to talk about team dynamics that concern you, even if Anya doesn’t want you to. That said … I can’t really tell what’s going on! Are Buffy, Cordelia, Xander, and Willow being cliquish and exclusionary, or is Anya not meshing with the team for other reasons? Aside from the ex-boyfriend thing — which was really inappropriate, which I’ll say more about in a minute — it doesn’t sound like they’ve been actively exclusionary (it’s not like getting coffee together needs to exclude tea drinkers!). Maybe there’s more to it than what’s described in your letter, but based on what’s here it sounds like they’re just a pretty close group, and (a) that can be legitimately hard for a new person to break into, (b) especially if they’re not the sort who’s willing to actively jump in but rather waits to be invited, but (c) that doesn’t necessarily mean that the others did anything wrong. It might be a matter of them just needing to be more aware that because they’re so close, that’s a tough dynamic for a new person to come into, and so if they want future hires to feel welcome, they need to go out of their way to actively include them, more than they have been. And that’s a message that’s important for you to deliver, even if Anya doesn’t want you to — because it affects your team as a whole, not just her, and because it will affect other hires in the future. However, if Anya doesn’t want you to raise it, you should be sensitive to that in the way you approach it. Stress that these are your observations, not something Anya asked you to address, and ask people to prioritize not making Anya feel awkward as things move forward. (Also, you do need to address the ex-boyfriend thing if you haven’t already. There’s nothing inappropriate about Anya talking with someone from another team — and even if she started dating the ex, that’s something Cordelia and her coworkers would need to handle professionally. You need to call that out and ask them to remember that workplace rules are what apply when they’re at work, even if they might have different expectations of people in their personal lives.) Back to Anya. If she wants to leave the team, you shouldn’t stand in the way of that. You can suggest she give it a little time before deciding, to see if things change now that you’re aware of the situation, but ultimately if she’s not happy, leaving might be the right choice for her — and that’s true even if we think she should give her current team more of a chance. If it’s really true that changing jobs before two years would reflect badly on her internally, you should explain how that’s normally perceived so she has all the information and can make the right decision for herself — but she does get to decide it herself, even if you think she’s making the wrong choice. I do wonder if some of your concern is about feeling you will have failed if she leaves over this … and I do think there’s an important lesson here about paying more attention to team dynamics and how new hires are adjusting, and being more proactive about helping them become part of the team. For example, knowing that you have a close-knit team that might be hard for newcomers to break into, can you look for opportunities to connect your next new hire with people individually? Even just “Willow, could you take Anya to coffee and tell her about your experience with X?” and similar suggestions can really change people’s experience in this regard. But meanwhile, you can’t change what’s already happened and Anya gets to do what she decides is right for her. You may also like:should I tell someone about my coworkers' exclusionary behavior at a conference?I won money on a game show, and my coworkers resent that I wasn't laid offam I leading an exclusionary work clique? { 379 comments }