Ask a Manager

employer wants to see my family tree, coworker hawks up snot in the kitchen every day, and more

by Alison Green on October 24, 2024

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. Should my employee provide any explanation for her repeated last-minute time off?

One of my employees, Ciera, has been regularly requesting her PTO at the last minute over the past few months. For example, she’ll submit a request over the weekend to have Monday off once or twice per month. Our request form has an optional comment box where Ciera can include a note to me, but she always leaves it empty. I don’t need a specific reason for why she’s requesting the day off, but given the repeated last-minute notice, is it unreasonable of me to want some kind of ballpark explanation for why it’s coming in so late (i.e., her waitlist for an appointment came through, she thought she put in the request earlier and forgot, a family emergency came up, etc.)?

While I can typically accommodate the request, it can sometimes strain our workload when we can’t plan in advance. Without any kind of explanation, these continual last-minute requests are starting to make me question her reliability in a way that I probably wouldn’t if I had some context. Am I off-base feeling this way? I don’t want to appear to be prying into her private life (I don’t need to know what the appointment is for or what the family emergency is), but I would like to come up with a solution that would allow her to request her PTO earlier if possible or at least get a heads up that she has A Thing going on that means these last-minute requests will probably continue and we need to put a plan in place to help us better prep for unexpected absences.

I don’t think you’re off-base. In jobs where coverage is needed or where an unexpected absence will cause a strain on other people, PTO normally comes with some expectation of advance notice unless the person is sick or has an emergency. In many jobs, last-minute requests can still be accommodated, but when it’s happening a lot with no context, it’s reasonable to wonder what’s going on and to want to make sure that you’re both on the same page about how time off is managed.

It’s also reasonable that you’d be more willing to shoulder whatever burden the last-minute requests cause if you understand that they are necessary rather than Ciera just, for example, feeling on Sunday that she’d rather not come in the next day.

The right next step is to talk to her and let her know it puts a strain on the team to accommodate frequent last-minute time-off and ask if she’s able to give you more advance notice. Include something like, “Unless you’re sick or have an unanticipated emergency, it’s easier on the team if we can get more advance notice. Thinking back to your recent time-off requests, does that seem like something you’d be able to do more often?”

She may not realize it matters either way, and just having this conversation might change how she approaches it.

2. Coworker hawks up snot in the kitchen every day

Warning: if the headline didn’t alert you, this is gross.

About six months ago, we returned to the office three days a week. The building is new and there are pretty nice kitchens on each floor with sinks and fridges and places to eat lunch.

I eat my lunch earlier than most of my coworkers so I’m often the only person in there. Often, while I’m sitting and reading and eating my lunch, a person from another group whose name I don’t know comes in and performs what I can only describe as the most thorough evacuation of all the mucus in her sinuses and lungs I have ever had the misfortune to observe. For at least five minutes she cycles between deep, liquid throat-clearing and coughing, rich snorty snot-inhaling and sinus-clearing, and spitting the results into the sink or into napkins, which she then throws into the trash. She does this over the counter, next to the coffee mugs and tea, near the office fruit box and snack dispensers, right in there with food and utensils and everything.

It’s one of the most astonishingly disgusting experiences I’ve ever had at work, and I’ve worked at a university where the campus food service catered our meetings.

What can I even do about this? I don’t want to confront her, although she clearly has no self-awareness and isn’t self-conscious about it or she’d go in the bathrooms or outside or something instead of doing her stuff in the kitchen. Also, I’m a tallish man and she is a shortish woman, and I’m not sure how that would look,

Should I take this to HR? Put up a passive-aggressive sign? It’s incredibly gross and she does it almost every time I’m in there eating lunch. Maybe she does it more than once a day, even. Whatever, a shared kitchen isn’t the place to be clearing out ridiculous quantities of snot. Any advice you can offer would be welcome. I didn’t really want to go back to the office in the first place, but this makes it much much worse than I’d anticipated.

From what infernal pit of hell did your coworker ascend? Is there any chance you’re on a reality show and being punked? Because this is disgusting.

The next time it happens, you could just say to her, “Would you mind doing that in the bathroom?” Feel free to add, “There’s food and clean dishes right near you.”

I hear you on feeling weird about the gender dynamics, but she’s doing something truly gross and you’re allowed to ask her to take it to a more appropriate location.

I don’t think it rises to the level of HR … although I also don’t think it would be wildly out of line to ask them to handle it if you really don’t want to speak up yourself, given how unsanitary it is, which affects more people than just the lone unfortunate witness. (This is the kind of thing that makes HR people question their life choices, but that’s not your problem.) Don’t do the sign though, as much I enjoy imaging what it might say; this is something where someone needs to just have a direct conversation with this reprobate.

3. My employer wants to see my family tree

I work for my local county in the Human Resources department. Our county attorney is rewriting some polices, including nepotism, which will be retroactive once approved by the board. For background, I live rurally and my family was an original settler of the area in the 1800’s. The county is the largest employer in our area with over 500 employees. My family on both sides is quite large and the majority of us all still live locally.

I have two family members who work for the county. Both are distant cousins, a father and son in different departments. I didn’t know they were employed by the county when I applied or was hired. Of course, as soon I found out, I disclosed this to my manager. There was no problem mentioned at that time. Now, a year later, the new polices are being developed, and I’m being asked to submit a family tree to show exactly how distant the relationship is. It’s not only distant on the tree, it’s emotionally distant as well. I haven’t spent any real time with these people since I was a small child in the 1990’s. Others in my department seem to not have been asked for a family tree even though they have family employed by the county as well, which is made very clear and openly appear as a very close family relationship. They often discuss weekend plans together, family dinners, etc.

When I’ve asked how family is being defined, my manager isn’t able to give me a straight answer. I’m curious if you’ve heard of this before? How do I navigate potentially being asked to leave my job based on a policy that didn’t exist when I was hired (but I’ve been told will be retroactive, thus affecting my job directly) and doesn’t seem to affect others in my department?

It’s not unreasonable for them to want clarification on the exact relationship, but it’s unreasonable to only require it of you and not of others. Are you sure other people aren’t being asked similar questions? If they’re not, is there anything that could explain the difference in treatment, like that you’re in a position of authority or influence that they’re not in? Or that those relationships are already clear and don’t require more info?

Also, has anyone actually said you could be asked to leave your job over this, as opposed to simply wanting the info so they can put in place any necessary safeguards against conflicts of interest? I would assume it’s likely to be the latter unless something specific has made you think it’s the former.

If you do end up being asked to leave your job over a policy that isn’t applied to others who are similarly situated, you should push back on that — with a union if you have one, or with an attorney if you don’t. That said, government employers are normally fairly risk-averse about applying clear-cut policies to one person and not to others so, again, unless you have reason to think that will happen, there’s a good chance that’s not where this is going.

4. What should I do in meetings with someone on an improvement plan who’s not improving?

I have an employee with performance issues who is basically on an informal PIP because we don’t have enough documentation of the issues to put her on a formal PIP. I’ve clearly laid out my expectations for what she needs to do and by when, and she’s indicated that she understands. I’ve also told her that the consequences of not meeting these goals are that she will be put on a formal PIP. We’ve previously discussed her personal issues that may be contributing, and I’ve repeatedly offered her FMLA, accommodations, and the EAP, which she has not to my knowledge taken advantage of.

What do I do during my weekly check-in meetings with her? There are occasionally things where I need to ask her “did you do X?” but most of the time I am already aware of whether she has completed her tasks or not. Some weeks she’s doing well and meeting the goals, some weeks she’s not, so there’s no sustained improvement yet. It feels weird to go into that meeting like “you didn’t do the thing. Do the thing,” for the 20th time.

HR said we should document her performance and my communication with her through the end of the year in order to have enough info to get a PIP approved. What do I do in weekly meetings for the next three months where we both already know the status?

If you’re not seeing the sustained improvement you told her was needed and you’re having to repeatedly remind her to do things she’s not doing, you should tell HR you’ve seen enough to be ready to move to the formal PIP now rather than dragging this out.

But meanwhile, use the check-in meetings to give feedback on what you’re seeing and to flag that you’re not seeing the needed improvements: “I’m concerned that you haven’t done XYZ. This is an example of what we’ve discussed needed to improve. What happened?” It sounds like you’ll be repeating that a lot, and there’s no way around that.

5. How do I set goals at a job I don’t like?

Last fall, I was laid off from a job I really loved. Earlier this year, I started a new job I’ve always disliked. While the job is technically in the industry and field I want to be in, I’m not using the skills or knowledge I’ve worked hard to amass. I’m passionate about consumers, but we are firmly B2B. My boss isn’t particularly kind, and we’ve butted heads on lots of issues. I’ve continued looking for a new job since day 3, but I’m still here many months later.

Over the summer, my boss was supposed to conduct a mid-year performance review, but he never did. This would have included setting goals for the rest of the year, so those goals have never been set. He mentioned last week that soon, we’d start working on setting goals for 2025. But I can’t for the life of me figure out what good goals are for this job when my goal is to find a different job and get out of here.

What are generic professional goals I could be working towards in this position? Or how can I think about the goals differently to come up with things I’d like to work on?

Don’t think of this as being about goals for you personally; think of it as being about goals for the position, regardless of who’s in it. In other words, it’s about what needs to be done for the work; if you were replaced tomorrow, what would a successful 2025 look like for the person who took over? For example, if you work in online media, you might have goals around increasing click-through rate or adding email subscribers. If you work in finance, it might be about having a clean audit and lowering overhead costs by X%. If you work in IT, it might be implementing a new CMS and resolving the database errors that have been plaguing your team. And so on — they’re goals that anyone could inherit if you leave, and they describe what successful work or progress would look like for the position, not a specific person who happens to be in it.

my boss keeps warning me she’ll get in trouble if I commit fraud (I’m not)

by Alison Green on October 23, 2024

A reader writes:

I started a part-time voluntary position a couple of months ago. There are reporting lines, annual appraisals, etc. just the same as a regular job and it’s in a very niche area which closely matches my field, a rare opportunity! In a lot of ways my new manager is excellent — she’s experienced, committed to career growth of her team, etc. I am excited to work with her! However, I’ve had a few interesting conversations and would like your advice.

First, on three separate occasions, she has said that if I commit fraud one day, she’ll be penalized in her career, go to jail, etc. but that “she’s willing to take that risk to help me achieve my dreams.” These are long conversations so it is not misplaced humor. I went through an extensive background checking process before being accepted for the position and I’ve previously worked in highly sensitive areas that require integrity and reliability. I don’t want to get drawn into justifying my background or intentions, but I do want to resolve what seems to be a concern on her part so that we can move forward.

Secondly, I am excited about what I can bring to this position and have asked how I can support her career or objectives. She had to go through a lot of admin to bring me on board, and I want to return something back to her too. She’s insistent that all she wants is for me to have a good experience and there is nothing I can provide for her in return. (I accept that we are in different life situations and that this may be correct, so my plan is to create opportunities for more junior staff who do not have the same opportunities as the managers.) We’ve had this same conversation several times too and I find her statements awkward because it feels like it is creating an obligation that I can never repay, and that I am being asked to repeatedly express my gratitude.

I respect my manager as a leader and want to work well with her, so I would value some advice. What could be the thought processes and motivations behind a manager making these types of statements? How can I respect and acknowledge her viewpoints and concerns while closing out these types of conversations, especially the ones that question my integrity and reliability?

Well, don’t commit fraud, obviously!

I’m sure you don’t need to be told that, and it’s really odd that she’s brought it up three times. It likely has nothing to do with you — maybe she’s an anxious person, or she heard about that happening to someone else, or who knows what. I doubt it’s that you’re coming across suspiciously!

If she had just said it once, I’d write it off as just a random awkward moment. But bringing it up three separate times is sufficiently weird that you should ask her about it. For example, you could say, “You’ve mentioned several times that if I commit fraud one day, you’d be penalized. Is there something I’ve done that’s worried you about my ethics? It’s so far from anything I’d ever do and I’m concerned I’ve somehow given you the impression you need to worry about that.”

On the second point, about wanting to repay your manager in some way: I think your framing is wrong here. She presumably went through a lot of administrative work to bring you on board because she judged that it would be useful to her and/or the organization to do that, not because she was doing you a favor. That’s how hiring works, even for volunteer positions: both sides benefit, and there’s no debt incurred. (Actually, with volunteer positions, if anything it’s in the other direction; they should be grateful to you.) The only thing you owe her is conscientious work while you’re there. There’s nothing to repay.

I do want to know what’s making you feel that you’re being asked to repeatedly express gratitude. Is that because your manager keeps referring to how much work she had to do to bring you on? Or do you feel like that’s all you can offer if she won’t let you repay her in some other way? If it’s the first option — she keeps seeking out your gratitude — that’s inappropriate and you should internally roll your eyes and ignore it. But if it’s something being internally generated by you, I refer you back to the previous paragraph! You don’t need to repeatedly express gratitude for being hired (and most managers would find it uncomfortable if you did; if yours seems to want it, that’s a problem).

where are you now? (a call for updates)

by Alison Green on October 23, 2024

At the end of each year, I publish a slew of “where are they now” updates from people whose questions I answered here in the past. In past years we’ve had several hundred each December and it’s been magnificent.

If you’ve had your question answered here in the past, please email me an update and let us know how your situation turned out. Did you take the advice? Did you not take the advice? What happened? How’s your situation now? (Don’t post your updates here though; email them to me.)

Note: Your update doesn’t have to be positive or big to be worth submitting. We want to hear them all, even if you don’t think yours is that interesting.

And if there’s anyone you especially want to hear an update from, mention it here and I’ll reach out to those people directly.

new manager’s team hates her — but she says they’re the problem

by Alison Green on October 23, 2024

A reader writes:

About a year and a half ago, I hired a person (Catelyn) with more than seven years of management experience to manage a long-standing team. I was aware that the transition had been rocky in parts, and I believe that I’ve been clear with everyone involved that Catelyn has authority to define process and policy for the team and that she has my full support. She’s very good at the regular part of her work, she prioritizes the right things, and I get positive feedback about her from our customer base.

However, the team members have begun coming to me privately to say that they feel micromanaged and even bullied by her. Some of the things I’ve heard:
– She’ll say belittling things about customers, coworkers, and even team members (her own reports!) behind their backs.
– She will have 1:1s that go on for an hour or more which are entirely her ranting at the employee about everything she doesn’t like about the team and the organization.
– She’s inconsistent in her directions and expectations with the team, giving different members different instructions on how to do the same task.

But none of this happens when I’m around! I haven’t observed any of these behaviors at all, other than early on she seemed to skew surprisingly negative on her initial impression of most coworkers across our organization, but after I showed mild surprise to her experience, that stopped. And the team says that she is different when I’m present. (My office is in another building but I drop by when I can.)

On Catelyn’s part, she says that the team doesn’t respect her, that they resist anything she proposes just because it comes from her, and that the team spends all of their time talking instead of doing work … but that none of this happens when I’m around either! When I’ve tried to gently probe regarding some of the comments that I’ve been told about, she responds with shock and that she would never say such a thing. One team member did go to HR directly and it ended in a vague place of telling Catelyn, “Well, if you did say something like this, never ever do it again.”

If what the team members tell me is true, it’s appalling behavior and I want to deal with it ASAP. I have worked closely with some of them for years and I can’t imagine that they would cook up a concerted campaign of lies. On the other hand, I’m not sure I can or should discipline someone over literal hearsay, and I don’t think Catelyn is subtle enough to be this bad around her staff without me noticing something in our interactions. How can I resolve this?

I strongly suspect the problem is Catelyn and here’s why:

– It’s unlikely that a group of people who you’ve known and worked with for years, and who (I’m assuming) you know to have good judgment and integrity, would all conspire to start lying about someone.

– Catelyn started out “surprisingly negative” about people when she talked to you but stopped when she saw your reaction. That tells you something. It’s not just the original negative takes, but also her modifications when she saw you were reacting poorly, which indicates she deliberately censors what she lets you see. (If this were the only thing that had happened, I wouldn’t put as much weight on it — but taken with everything else, it’s significant.)

– At least one of Catelyn’s complaints about the team reflects directly on her as a manager and she doesn’t seem to realize that, which is telling: her complaint about the team spending all their time talking instead of doing work. If that’s true, Catelyn’s job is to actively manage that situation, not just throw up her hands. That’s not a tough problem for a decent manager to solve, and it doesn’t sound like she’s managing that the way a skilled manager would. That doesn’t make her a liar, but it does mean she’s not a very good manager, and it’s another thing that points toward her being the problem. And her belief that the opposite is true is yet another data point not in her favor. And if it’s not true but she’s saying it anyway … well, case closed. Can you tell from the team’s output which it is?

– Catelyn doesn’t sound particularly concerned by what’s happening. A good manager whose team had these problems would be actively looking for solutions. Catelyn doesn’t sound like she’s doing that; she’s just reacting with “no, that didn’t happen” when you come to her with questions. Why isn’t she more concerned? Why isn’t she more curious about where these reports are coming from, and actively trying to improve her relationships with the people she manages?

I know you’re not seeing the problems firsthand, but it’s absolutely possible for a manager to be horrible with their staff and hide it when their own manager is around. As one example, I once worked with a director who was awful to his team for years and had them all too terrified to tell anyone about it. They worked in a different location from everyone else so it was easy to hide — and when people visited their site, he changed his behavior for the outsiders’ benefit.

Ultimately, though, you don’t need to solve this beyond a reasonable doubt. Frame it to yourself, and to Catelyn, this way: You need a manager for this team who is able to effectively manage them. A requirement of Catelyn’s job is to gain the respect of her staff and manage them in a way where they feel expectations are clear, not regularly changing, and where morale is good. No matter what’s behind it, it sounds like everyone agrees right now that that’s not happening. Lay out for Catelyn the outcomes you need to see from her as a manager — like that her team agrees they receive clear and consistent expectations, that they feel respected and treated well, and that they report receiving a level of support appropriate to their roles.

You can offer her coaching to help her achieve those things, which might include you sitting in on some of her meetings with her team and debriefing afterwards, letting her watch you run meetings with your own team and debriefing those afterwards, and coaching her through specific challenges that come up … but ultimately you need a manager who can effectively manage the team and gain their trust. If she can’t do that, she’s not the right person to lead them.

Also, act with real urgency here. You you need to see pretty quickly whether she can turn things around and be that person, because the longer this goes on, the more damage it will do to that team’s culture (something that can last even if she eventually leaves) and the more chance you’ll lose good people over it.

how can I get out of group photos at work, interviewer asked what I’d do if I won $1 million, and more

by Alison Green on October 23, 2024

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. How can I get out of group photos at work?

I work in a department where the staff work remotely most of the time. We do have monthly and quarterly meetings where everyone is required to work on-site and the occasional optional staff party or get-together.

My manager and one coworker insist that these in-person occasions be marked with a photograph. I hate being photographed; for a lot of personal reasons they send me down a hole of self loathing and are extremely stressful. Honestly, I never go to optional events and find sleep difficult, often impossible, the night before our on-site days. I have tried leaving early, which results in the photo being taken before I can exit. I have tried saying, “No thanks, but I’d love to be the photographer,” which results in a “No!” from everyone present. I have tried standing in the back, which results in another coworker pushing me to the front since I am short. All of which means that all on-site occasions are commemorated with a photo with a person front and center who looks like she is on the verge of tears. Because I am.

Is there an effective way to avoid these photo opportunities? I just want to be able to enjoy being with my colleagues in person without the specter of being photographed hanging over my head.

Ugh, they should not be doing this; people’s preferences about being in photos should be respected just like people’s preference to not be hugged or not be called by a nickname. There are some exceptions to this; if this were an annual team photo or something, I’d encourage you to try to do it if you could — although even then you should be able to opt out if it makes you too anxious. But every on-site occasion? It’s not needed.

I recommend talking to your manager! People who enjoy photos often genuinely don’t realize the level of discomfort some people experience with them; ironically, they may even feel they’re being inclusive by pushing you to participate. Try saying this to your manager: “I’m truly not comfortable being photographed, and I’m requesting that you and the team stop pushing me to be in photos if I say I’d rather not.”

The other option is just being very assertive about opting out in the moment — “No, I really hate being photographed; I’m not joking; I’m going to sit it out; it’s getting weird that you won’t respect that” — but it’ll probably be more effective to address the pattern with your boss one-on-one.

2. Interviewer asked what I’d do if I won $1 million

I’m interested in your perspective on a job interview question I encountered seven years ago. It lives rent-free in my head! It was a second-round interview for a professional role in a mid-sized company. Of the four interview panel members present, the question was delivered by the HR person. It was read from a planned list of questions, although I think the last part was improvised: “What would you do if you were working for us and were given, won, or inherited $1 million?” This was followed with, “Don’t tell us you would turn up to work the next day because we know that is a lie.” This last part was delivered with direct eye contact and all the condescension you can imagine.

I froze and, having never considered this scenario, gave a terrible answer. I didn’t get the job, nor would I have taken it if offered.

To this day, I don’t know what the interviewer panel was trying to get out of this question. What is the point of this type of question? What type of response is appropriate when it has the potential to lead into discussions of your personal life?

That’s a terrible question, and it was asked in a particularly adversarial way. I doubt they meant it to be adversarial … but “we know that is a lie” is a ridiculous thing to say (not least because, particularly once taxes are taken out, $1 million isn’t “quit your job and never work again” money for many people in the U.S.).

I suspect what they were trying to get at — badly — was, “What are your passions in life / how would you spend your time and your energy if you didn’t have to go to work every day?” and that was probably intended to give them a better sense of who you are. But it’s an ineffective way to find those things out, and I suspect you weren’t the only candidate who found it off-putting.

3. My employees want to buy me Starbucks — how can I gracefully get them to stop?

I’ve come to management later in life, and currently lead a team of eight. My employees are hard-working, empathetic, and look out for one another. However, on occasion, one of them will volunteer to buy Starbucks for whoever is on shift. When I am working, they include me in this, and I have accepted as I don’t want to make the employee in question feel awkward by declining. (This has only happened twice so far.)

I agree with your philosophy that gifts in the workplace should flow downward. I have offered to Venmo the generous employee whenever they do this, and they always decline. I have also explicitly told them that they do not need to buy me anything or include me in group orders, yet the Starbucks persists. I don’t want to create a pattern where anyone feels obligated to treat me to anything, but I also don’t want to squish my employees’ generosity and empathy — in our industry, these are valuable traits worth nurturing.

How would you recommend I deal with this? Should I simply gracefully decline each time and create a new pattern?

You’ve offered to Venmo them, and you’ve told them they don’t need to buy you anything — but that’s still leaving a lot of room for them to do it anyway. Instead say, “This is on me” and hand them cash or (if you plan in advance) a Starbucks gift card (“you can put it all on this gift card”). If you don’t want to cover it every time, just decline their offer to grab you something on those occasions — which you can do by just cheerfully saying, “Nothing for me, thank you!”

4. How can I get constructive feedback from my boss?

I guess I have a good “problem” to have, but wanted your advice. I work for a manager who does not give me any constructive feedback, besides his praise that I am doing great. He has me write my own performance reviews (including sections designated for him), and when I ask to review them, he says it all looks good and he signs off. I often ask if there are things to improve in my job performance, and he just says things like “you are doing wonderfully.”

I am not sure if I should just take these things at face value and keep working as I am, or press him to find things for me to improve. I have asked others for whom I’m worked on projects at this workplace to also give me feedback, and get the same “you are great, no notes” kind of responses.

Some managers aren’t good at providing feedback to people who do their job well, or don’t even think they need to; if a person is generally doing well, to those managers that’s the whole story. But it can be a disservice to people like you who want to get better and better at what they do or would just appreciate a more nuanced discussion of their performance.

One option is to say to your boss “I appreciate that you’ve told me I’m doing well, but I’d like to get better and better at my job and I’d really value being able to talk with you about ways I could do that.”

But sometimes an easier option to ask for feedback around specific pieces of work. For example: “I felt like I wasn’t as effective at X as I wanted to be in that meeting — can you help me think through other ways I could have presented that?” … “I really want to get better at X. Can we talk about what I should be focused on to do that?” … “Project X didn’t go as well I’d hoped and I’d love your thoughts on how I might approach that kind of work differently next time.” … “I don’t think II’m approaching Y as effectively as I could. Could I run through where I am with it and get your thoughts on where to strengthen it?” … etc.

Also, if you know what you’d like your next role to be (or one after that one), you can talk to your boss about how to get from here to there — ask what skills he thinks you should be working on and demonstrating to help you get there.

5. Company approached me about working for them, then never got back to me

I’ve been at my current employer for 12 years and am overall very happy. I’ve progressed to the top of the food chain, though, so am conscious that if I want to grow further I’d need to change orgs. Last week I received a very brief email from a VP at an org I’d love to work for. It said: “We’re looking to make a couple of hires at a senior level at [ORG] and I’m wondering whether you might be interested in being considered. Please let me know!”

I am not actively looking for a job, so whether I want this position would very much depend on what, exactly, the role is. That said, I’d definitely be open to exploring a role. So I answered, “Thank you for reaching out. Yes, I would be interested in being considered. I look forward to learning more about the roles you are looking to fill.”

A week later, I haven’t heard anything further. Now I’m wondering if I totally botched this, as this has never happened to me before! Should I have included my resume (which would have required me updating it and thus taken longer for me to reply)? Included a more cover letter-like intro to myself? Or just generally sounded more enthusiastic? In the event something like this happens again, how could I handle it better? (And is it worth following up with this one, or should I assume they’re not interested for whatever reason?)

You didn’t botch it. It might have just moved down on the person’s priority list for whatever reason, or they forwarded you along to someone else who will be in contact at some point, or something changed on their end (a perfect candidate emerged, hiring is on hold until they work out some details, or who knows what).

Ideally in a situation like this it’s good to include your resume — but since they contacted you, the fact that you didn’t is unlikely to kill their interest; if anything they would have just responded and asked you to send it. But if you’re not sending it because you needed time to update it, it’s always fine to say, “I’d normally attach my resume but since I’m not actively looking it’s not up-to-date; I’ll update it this weekend and send it over to you” (or whatever).

If you haven’t heard anything in another week (two weeks total), check back in. Include an updated resume at that point (if nothing else, it gives an easy opening for writing back, but also it could help move things along if they’re going to move).

the bread bag files, the dead language, and other broken but sacred systems

by Alison Green on October 22, 2024

Last week, we talked about broken systems that for some reason become sacred and cannot be changed. Here are some of my favorite stories you shared.

1. The bread bags

I worked for a publication that had a bread-bag-based content management system. They were these waxy paper bags designed to hold a loaf of bread, and each article for the issue had a bag with all of the relevant collateral. Anything you did for an article (research, drafts, fact checks, layouts), you had to print out your work and put it in the bag.

They would get passed around the office, and as we got closer and closer to deadline, people’s desks would be piled high with bread bags. In order to properly review articles, you had to take all the contents out of the bag. Things typically got more frenzied closer to deadline, so by the time we closed out the issue, everyone’s fingers were typically covered in paper cuts.

We’d keep the bags in storage buckets for three months after we went to press, just in case we needed to go back and check something, then we’d spend an absurd amount of time disassembling all of them so we could reuse the bags.

This system was in practice until the year of our Lord 2020 when the pandemic finally forced them to find a digital content management solution.

2. The calendars

When I transitioned from one enrollment management office to another on campus nine years ago, my new office had a spot outside of everyone’s office for them to place a print-out of their weekly Outlook calendar. I came from an office where our internal IT guy had made the Outlook default settings so that everyone could view the high level, but not the details, of appointments. The IT guy in the office I joined said such a setting wasn’t possible and that it was impossible to enforce everyone adjusting their settings so that we could all view each other’s calendars. So people printed their calendars every Monday morning and hung them next to their door.

Do you print a new one if you get a new meeting request during the week? What about if you end up needing to be out unexpectedly? No guidance, no rules.

I just quietly refused to do any printing. And it was never a problem. We had a new director start about two months after me and she asked, as a fellow newcomer, is there anything that surprised me coming into the office. I didn’t take a full breath before I said, “OMG WHY ARE PEOPLE PRINTING CALENDARS?”

The calendar printing lasted about another 14 months, though following my and the director’s lead, new people just never printed them out and the calendar sheets slowly started to disappear. Was there ever an office wide change to the Outlook settings? No. So each new person has to be instructed to change their Outlook settings and some don’t and it’s a PITA.

3. The work space

An organization I worked at was moving buildings. One person ran a solo unit similar to a storeroom. She had a full scale meltdown when she found out her new workroom would not be the exact shape and dimensions as her previous room. They tried to convince her it would be nice to have windows. She insisted it would not. She had been working for 20 years without windows and nothing would convince her to have windows.

They caved into her bizarre demands and carved out a weird interior space for her the exact shape and size of her previous space. She put everything where it had been in the old building: the place to stack incoming supplies, the place to stack empty boxes, her desk and calculator, every single item. We’re in an earthquake zone so there are seismic pylons in various spots, which could not be in her space because that would change the dimensions. So they put walls up in awkward places that left strange, unusable space all around it. The beautiful large windows were in a narrow corridor that heated up in two seconds when the sun was out. Seismic pylons stuck out into other people’s spaces in awkward spots. The entire floor was wonky to navigate due to this one person’s insistence on The Old Way.

And guess what? Six years later she retired. Every single wall had to be taken down and moved to a sensible place, at the cost of tens of thousands of dollars.

4. The dead language

I work in museums. Another museum in our region had a staff member who kept all their crucial records – important not just for day-to-day work, but for the continuity of the entire institution – in a dead language that they were fluent in. It was a deliberate ploy to keep from ever being replaced. They had never actually been managed before a colleague of mine became their supervisor, and when they refused to change, they were let go and the records had to be translated.

5. Fall 2008

My college’s database was created in fall 2008. How do I know this? Well, when you log on, everything from the class schedule to the student handbook to the faculty pages is set to fall 2008 by default. You have to click into a menu, open a side-bar, and scroll aaaalllll the way down to the current term to see what the school looks like now. But if you hit the “Back” or “Refresh” buttons, the page will crash and then revert back to fall 2008.

6. The typewriter

I worked at a commercial real estate company where the owner’s personal assistant refused to learn anything new. Therefore, there were some forms that never evolved to PDFs, or Word, or Excel, or anything logical. These forms were photocopied and filled in, by the personal assistant, using a typewriter.

It was like time traveling. She would take the dust cover off the typewriter, line up every space so the levers would fill in the correct spots and then take hours filling in a single form. The electric motor of the typewriter could be heard throughout the entire office.

When visitors asked what that buzzing and striking sound was, I pretended like I didn’t know. How can you close a $M deal after saying, “Oh, that’s the typewriter that we use to fill out forms!”

7. The phone box in a well

I worked for many years in a social service organization located in a state forest. It was a former camp. The phone system was a nightmare, and we often heard that people could not get through to us. Initially, I disputed this as my phone was not ringing, and there were no voicemails. But then there were times that I was unable to make calls with my phone.

It turned out that, for some insane reason, the main phone connection box was located in the well, above the water line, but why??? So whenever it rained, we lost our phones. Mind you, the rest of the organization’s branches were located in the city, so it was bizarre to explain that we were unlikely to be reachable by phone the next day due to the predicted rain. I worked there for 12 years. They used a local company that was willing to go into the state forest, and that was less expensive than other phone options. They were big on using local companies.

I was there for five years before they moved the phone apparatus out of the well and into a building. I recall having an absolute meltdown at one point and saying to the senior director, “Why are you paying money for a phone system that does not have consistent service? The agency is being ripped off!” I don’t know if that was what finally did it or not.

8. The course catalog

I worked at a private university that was notoriously stingy and resistant to change. The course catalog was in a program created by a former IT director, in a computer language he wrote. He was the only person who could edit it, and even though he was retired, he would still come in periodically and update it. There was no one else who could maintain it. Heaven forbid something happened to him, we’d be registering students with pen and paper.

We got a new dean who was horrified and immediately started researching alternatives. Once a committee selected a software, the transition took over three years. The new company sent a team to help with the transition and people dragged their feet: “It’s too complicated, what if we get hacked? What’s wrong with the old system, we’ve used it just fine for 30 years!”

I was gone by implementation day, but there was so much drama leading up to implantation and then … nothing. The new system worked! My peers went from spending a month on the course catalog to a couple of days. Students stopped calling at 7am registration day because the student portal actually worked.

The best complaint I heard was, “I can’t believe we are putting John out of a job! He’s been so loyal to the university!” John had been retired for YEARS! I hope he went on a cruise or something to celebrate.

9. The server

Way, way back in the day, I worked for a small family-owned publishing company. Computers were just becoming mainstream (no wifi – all of our desktop computers were attached to the main server via individual cables inserted in wall outlets). The server was shaky and would often go down. Only one person in the company knew what to do. When the server crashed, you had to call Jim. If Jim was in the office, that was fine. If Jim was busy or traveling, the entire company ground to a halt. For some reason, no one questioned this process. The server was mysterious, and Jim knew what to do.

Then, one day, we hired a new editor who obviously thought we were nuts. She followed Jim into the server room to try and begin to learn the mysteries of the server so that maybe, given enough time, she could fix it if needed. Turns out that all Jim was doing was disconnecting the power cord, counting to 30, and plugging it back in. Jim was called a lot less after that.

10. The Excel workbook

Several years ago, I started at a new company and was promptly informed that a certain Excel workbook could not be changed or updated, AT ALL. You see, the CFO had set up this workbook 15 years ago and she would be very upset if she decided to randomly open it and saw something had changed. I cannot emphasize enough how ridiculous it was that she would ever need to open this file – this company employed a little less than 1,000 people and there were four managers/executives in between our roles.

This workbook was used for a monthly process and had years’ worth of tabs and data in it. It was incredibly unstable and crashed constantly. I once asked if I could at least delete all of the tabs that were more than a year old. My managers had a meeting with a couple of executives to discuss the situation and what the CFO might do if she ever found out. And it was finally decided that the risk of her wrath was just too great and ABSOLUTELY NO CHANGES could be made.

11. The calendars, part 2

I work in law. My old firm had 40-ish attorneys spread across eight courtrooms. Each courtroom has a daily calendar of all cases to be heard in that department. Rather than use any kind of digital record-keeping about what happened in court, this was the required procedure:

– Every attorney prints out a paper calendar for their department each day.
– Every attorney hand writes notes for their own cases on their copy of the calendar.
– Paper calendars get turned in to the office manager at the end of the day.
– The office manager prints clean copies of the eight department calendars, then proceeds to cut up the 40+ individual calendars handed in by the lawyers, and paste their notes onto the corresponding spot on her clean copy of the calendars.
– These frankensteined calendars then get stored in boxes forever.

It was literal cut and paste, with scissors and glue, every day, for almost 50 years. This practice only stopped when the office manager retired.

12. The ticker tape

I started at a ~3,000 employee company in 2022. I was reviewing some invoices for payment and the figures didn’t make sense so I asked one of my team in a different office to send me the backup validating the information. I was expecting an email with an Excel file. No – they couriered me a hard copy package with ticker tape attached. Turns out the old manager like to review hard copy and wanted ticker tape to prove out any calculations. It took me six months to convince everyone that the world would not end and people would get paid if we used Excel and formulas.

my employee takes credit for the whole team’s work

by Alison Green on October 22, 2024

A reader writes:

I’m a fairly experienced manager, but I’ve only been managing my current team for a few months.

I’ve been in a couple meetings with one of my team members that I’ve asked her to take the lead on, and she reports out at every meeting. Twice now, as she’s reporting I’ve heard her change her sentence from “we’re doing…” to “I’m doing…” But she’s not! The whole team is pitching in ideas and support, and sometimes they or I am actually doing the things she’s talking about. It seems like a really low-stakes thing, but we’ve had to have a couple of other conversations about working on a team, like making sure she’s not getting out ahead of my direction and being aware of how she talks about workload around her teammates. It’s been a lot, so I also don’t want to be focus unnecessarily on something that could really be minor. But she’s taking credit for other people’s work, and that’s not fair to them, and I don’t know if it makes her look particularly good, either. Should I bring it up or let it slide?

I answer this question — and two others — over at Inc. today, where I’m revisiting letters that have been buried in the archives here from years ago (and sometimes updating/expanding my answers to them). You can read it here.

Other questions I’m answering there today include:

Can I ask my colleagues not to mime shooting themselves?
Do we have to offer the job to the only applicant?

my boss said I looked “unprofessional” when I wore a binder to work

by Alison Green on October 22, 2024

A reader writes:

I have a question about a point that is now, thankfully, moot.

My previous manager, Rufus, wasn’t an especially ethical individual and failed to fulfill many of his expected duties. He was also kind of a creep. We all just put up with his unsavory and unprofessional comments, and occasionally pushed back when we felt it was important to do so.

One situation, though, left me without clear direction. I am non-binary, though I wasn’t out at work (a few coworkers pieced it together, but it wasn’t widely known). When I began to discreetly wear a binder to work, Rufus began to make comments about how I needed to look more professional. Over time, this evolved into getting feedback on my wardrobe as often as a few times per week.

It wasn’t a one-time fluke. It was a regular part of my life for months. I tried wearing an acceptable outfit (chinos and crewneck sweater) with my binder, then again with an underwire bra. With the underwire, I was complimented on dressing professionally. With the binder or a sports bra, I was again criticized. All the while, I was actually dressing above our company standards, which were snappy casual. I stopped wearing jeans and switched to business casual (chinos, khakis, and slacks, always with a structured top and nice shoes). My binder wasn’t visible, nor did it cause visible cleavage. It didn’t matter. One person I worked with closely and who knew my gender identity actually brought my boss’s comments up to me, so I wasn’t just being sensitive.

While I don’t hold Rufus in high regard for a number of reasons, I will be fair and say I don’t think he did this on purpose. I think he just preferred the way I looked some days and didn’t bother to question what, specifically, he liked. It was kind of like when a manager asks a femme if she’s feeling okay when she forgoes makeup. Except it wasn’t makeup, it was my body, and a part of my body about which I am dysmorphic.

I never said anything. I did not feel safe outing myself to him. Instead, I asked him to elaborate what was or wasn’t professional about specific outfits. He wasn’t able to give me anything, but he also didn’t stop the comments until he abruptly quit. He just laughed when I mentioned the frequency of his comments.

Was there anything else I could have done in this situation, other than out myself to him or upper management?

P.S. This story has a happy ending. I am now under a wonderful manager who gives prompt and actionable feedback about my job and only my job. I am learning lots of interesting new skills, and I no longer dread going to work. I have had no contact with Rufus.

Rufus is an ass.

He was indeed harassing you around gender presentation — and around the appearance of your boobs, specifically — whether he was consciously aware of it or not.

And really, when a manager finds themselves giving someone repeated dress code feedback, they have a high obligation to interrogate themselves about exactly where you’re violating expectations and then provide clear and specific guidance on that. “You need to look more professional” doesn’t meet that bar. And “you don’t look sufficiently professional even though you’re in the same outfit I judged professional last week” really should have raised some flags in his mind about what his judgments were based on.

Also, I’m guessing you wouldn’t have gotten this feedback if you were just naturally flatter-chested and appeared that way every day, so either (a) in the most generous reading, he was unconsciously responding to “her figure looks less pleasing to me today” and not bothering to think about why before trying to make that your problem, or (b) he was aware of why and still felt free to make that your problem, which would make it full-on sexual harassment and would make him a terrible person. Either way: a jerk, and just a question of degrees.

If you had a time machine, it would be interesting to go back and say to him, “This is the same outfit I wore last week that you told me looked professional. Every time you’ve given me this feedback, I’ve been in nice pants, a structured top, and nice shoes. I of course want to follow our dress code, so can you please give me more specific feedback about exactly where I”m violating it?” Or simply, “Can you tell me what specifically is out of compliance, so that I can ensure I’m within the dress code going forward?”

It sounds like you did ask him to elaborate and if your framing was similar to this and still elicited no details, then ideally your next step would be HR. HR isn’t useful for every type of problem you might encounter with a boss, but for something like this — where (a) you’re being told you’re violating a company policy and you don’t think you are and/or (b) gender presentation is involved, they’re often much better trained to handle it than a random manager might be. Not always, of course — there’s bad HR out there — but if you’d gone to see HR in person on one of the days Rufus told you that you were dressed unprofessionally, relayed his feedback, explained that he was telling you this regularly, and asked for guidance, there’s a decent chance they’d have talked to Rufus and shut it down (even without you needing to out yourself).

I’m sorry you had to work for such a jackwagon and I’m glad you’re in a better job now.

staff member says I’m triggering their unresolved trauma, employee calls me his “lady boss,” and more

by Alison Green on October 22, 2024

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. My employee says I’m triggering their unresolved trauma

I have a question as to how to manage a direct report who has admitted that they have self esteem issues resulting from unresolved childhood trauma. It is evident in any dealings with them that they struggle with any form of authority being shown — they get upset with a simple question about what have they been working on since our last fortnightly check in, particularly if tasks have not been completed. I’ve always made it clear that due to the reactive nature of their role that I understand that the action plan can be pushed to the side if urgent matters pop up, I just need to understand what they are. These conversations almost always end in emotion outbursts, no matter how I handle the conversation.

It has been getting worse and now I’ve been told that I am a trigger for their trauma but they can only say that there is “something about my style” which brings back issues. I have nothing to work with! I don’t shout, I don’t blame, and I make myself available when required even if I’m busy. Other colleagues and reports have no issues with my style and have advised me that they find me approachable. I have my moments as everyone does when I’m busy because I’m human. But how do I deal with someone who has said I trigger unresolved trauma when I have nothing to work with?

You can’t solve this for them. You should let them know that if they can propose specific changes you could make that would help them, you’re open to trying to work with what they need. (You shouldn’t promise you’ll make changes before knowing what they might be, because some could be unreasonable or unworkable, but you can certainly promise that you’ll hear them out with an open mind and try to accommodate them if you can.) But you also need to be forthright about the reality that they do need to update you on their work and answer your questions about their projects; that part isn’t negotiable. If they can suggest ways to make that easier on them (for example, maybe they’d prefer sending you updates in writing ahead of your check-ins), you’ll try to work with them — but the basic facts of having a manager (that they will need to keep you updated on their work and answer questions) won’t change. Lay that out in a kind but direct way, and let them decide if they’re up for that or not. If they decide they’re not, or that they can’t, there’s no shame in that — but you should be clear that it does need to happen if they want to stay in the role.

2. Was I wrong to refuse to answer coworkers’ questions about my life?

I just started a new job, and my coworkers are trying to get to know me. One of them asked me, “Are you in a relationship or married?” I don’t see what that has to do with work so I said, “Sometimes.”

Another coworker brought her kid to work. She had to tell her child, “Please stay still, you can’t just run around.” She turned to me and said, “Ahh, kids, ya know? You don’t have any kids, do you?” I said, “I might have kids” She gave me a funny look and said, “You might?” I said, “Maybe, who knows?” Could I get fired for this? How do I fix it?

This is an extremely weird way to behave with coworkers. When you work with people and are trying to get to know them, asking if they’re married or have kids is a normal thing to do. In particular, asking if you have kids is an especially normal question when someone is talking about their own kid. Answering “sometimes” to the question of whether you’re married or in a relationship is actually pretty funny, but “I might have kids” is a weird thing to say in any circumstance.

You asked whether you could get fired for this and it’s unlikely — but what is likely is that you’re coming across as rude and cold to coworkers and making people dislike you (in part because you’re coming across as if you dislike them) and that can have all kinds or professional ramifications, from people not wanting to be on projects with you, to not sharing useful info with you, to having trouble getting promoted, to ending up first on a layoff list.

You don’t need to get deeply personal with coworkers if you don’t want to, but sharing some basic facts about your life is usually a prerequisite for having warm working relationships with people. Feel free to immediately pivot the topic if you want (turning the question around and asking them about their own lives is one good way to do it, as is having some impersonal topics you don’t mind talking about — pets, books, TV, cooking) but if you’re not willing to engage warmly with people at all, yes, there will be professional consequences to that.

3. Employee calls me his “lady boss”

I am a female manager in a technical field. All of my direct reports are men. One of my reports consistently refers to me as “my lady boss.” He does not speak English as his first language and his native language uses gendered nouns and adjectives. He has worked in U.S. professional environments for over 30 years and has worked for me for five years. He is in the middle of the pack in terms of performance.

I don’t love the nickname but I haven’t wanted to make a big deal out of it either, except that I get looks and questions when he refers to me as My Lady Boss in front of our colleagues. How would you address this?

“Please don’t refer me as your ‘lady boss.’ I’m just your boss, or just Jane.” You could add, “Gender isn’t relevant when you identify me, just like you wouldn’t call Bob your ‘man boss.’” Alternately, “‘Lady boss’ sounds like you have an issue with female managers, which I know is not your intent.”

4. Should I tell the person I’m interviewing with that I’m no longer in good standing at my company?

I’ve been at my current company for about three years. For the first two years, I was considered a star performer. Since then, the company’s financials have soured, the strategy has changed, and so have the expectations for my role. I’ve also been moved to a new team where my manager and I don’t see eye to eye on a lot of things. All of this combined has unfortunately tanked my standing at work, and I’ve now received formal negative feedback on my performance and even had some of my responsibilities revoked.

I’m looking for new jobs, and I have gotten in touch with a former leader of my current company who’s hiring at his new company. He left while I was still a top performer, and I’m guessing he’s willing to recommend me based on that performance. My question is, would it be wise to let him know that I’m no longer doing well? I’m worried that if I don’t, he may reach out to some of our mutual colleagues and hear about it. On the other hand, I’m worried that if I share this info, it will sink my chances at getting hired by his new company.

You don’t need to warn him that you’re not doing well. His experience with you is his experience, and there’s no ethical or professional obligation to disclose that under different circumstances, things went differently. If he ends up hearing about it, so be it, but you’re not doing anything wrong by not volunteering it. (And it’s not at all uncommon for someone to do well in situation X with manager X but not thrive in situation Y with manager Y — and that generally says more about situation Y and manager Y than about the person themselves.)

5. Is a past run for office keeping me from getting job interviews?

I ran for the state legislature in 2020. I job searched in 2021 so I put it on my resume, towards the bottom with other volunteer work I’d done related to my field and only spoke about the aspects of running that relate to what I do for work. I don’t mention the party I was affiliated with or anything like that.

I had it on my resume at the time because it was so close to having run, any google search of my name only brought up information about my run. It didn’t ever feel right mentioning it in a cover letter and I was afraid leaving it off would seem weird once they did a google search.

Now I am putting in applications again. Is it possible continuing to have that on my resume is preventing me from getting interviews?

Now when you google me, there are a few different search results on page one — some related to current and past jobs, some which clearly show I was a candidate.

I absolutely don’t talk politics at work but I worry that having it on my resume makes it seem like that could be a problem. But I worry not mentioning it will come off weird once they search my name. Any advice on how to tackle this part of my professional history while job hunting?

It’s possible it’s concerning some employers. It’s more likely to come up as a concern if you ran on any particularly controversial or inflammatory planks, but even if you didn’t, some employers may wonder if you plan to run again, how it might affect work, etc. Also, by including it on your resume, you’re saying “I think this is at least somewhat relevant to my qualifications,” which may worry them if it the connection isn’t clear.

However, particularly if you were a fairly middle-of-the-road candidate, a lot of people won’t care at all.

Regardless, though, you can just leave it off. It 100% will not come across as weird if they google you and see that you ran for office four years ago but didn’t put it on your resume. There’s nothing shady or odd about not including it on your resume; resumes are marketing documents, not exhaustive lists of everything you’ve ever done. You can simply leave it off and make it a non-issue.

my coworker escalates EVERYTHING until she gets her way

by Alison Green on October 21, 2024

A reader writes:

I work for a small company (less than 50 people) and Jane has been with us for about four years. She came with a lot of fanfare because she is specialist in her field and has a history of otherworldly production. Jane loves having a squad of adoring colleagues and subordinates and is, to say the least, a diva.

She also escalates every conflict to the C-suite, no matter how small. Tell her no … it goes up to the CEO. Ask her to do something different … same thing. And she’s placated most of the time because if not, her beef goes to the board of directors.

Jane was restricted from purchasing for a couple of days because she doesn’t follow guidelines and of course it made it all the way to the board president, who reversed the CFO’s decision.

I know this is poor management and even poorer employee conduct, but what to do? I am looking for other employment opportunities.

It’s one thing for Jane to escalate to the CEO in such a small company — but the board? The first time that happened, the board should have told her they don’t get involved in day-to-day management decisions and directed her back to her manager. And now that the CEO sees it’s happening so frequently, she should be shutting down the vast majority of the escalations — sending Jane back to her own manager and including making it clear that Jane’s manager has the final call in 99% of what comes up.

Moreover, if the CEO disagrees with the calls Jane’s manager is making enough to want to reverse them so often, that’s a sign that the CEO and Jane’s manager needs to get themselves better aligned so that they’re not making such different calls.

On your end of things: you’re in a cesspool of mismanagement that for whatever reason wants to keep placating Jane. If no one above you is willing to take this on, the best thing you can do is to work on emotionally detaching from it. Remind yourself that it’s their company, not yours, and if they want to bend over backwards to placate Jane on the reg, so be it. It’s going to make you less emotionally invested in your job and less engaged in your work, which is bad for them in the long run, but that’s what happens when a company operates this way.

One caveat: if Jane is truly a rock star, is there any chance she’s right about a lot of what she’s escalating? Particularly if she was brought in to improve operations in her area, there’s at least a possibility that she’s in the right … and if she was specifically brought in to change the way things work, there’s even a chance that she was told to escalate things … which could explain why she’s getting her way so often. It could be interesting to look at it through that lens for a while and see if it changes anything about your conclusions.

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