internships

A reader writes:

I am beginning to feel very frustrated with the nonprofit organization that I have been interning for the past six months.

My internship is supposed to end this Friday and the organization does not allow for internships to last more than six months. This January, I was told about a new part-time position opening up in the department I’ve been working in and was highly encouraged by the acting director to apply. The idea of hiring someone was thrown around a couple times in December, so I was really excited for the prospect of turning the internship into a job! The acting director gave me the job posting before it was made available to the public, which was extremely kind of her to give me the heads up. I was told that the organization has rules on promoting from inside and that the department needs to follow protocol to interview others outside of the organization.

The posting was finally made available sometime middle-to-end of February. I had followed up with the acting director a couple days after the submission of my application to see if she had gotten my resume and cover letter through email, because I figured I didn’t want to pester her in person. She came to me in person and reassured that I would get an interview soon. Finally, I received an email of my interview schedule the second week of March. I had the interview last Wednesday and everything went smoothly and was told that I will hear back latest by on Tuesday of this week.

I work there from Wednesday to Friday. Yesterday (Wednesday), I went into the office with the intention of asking about the hiring decision. As usual, everyone in the department was swamped with work (and so was I), so I didn’t have the chance to ask. The department is obviously understaffed, and they really need my help. I am continuously given the most tedious and silliest grunt work without pay. I didn’t mind it so much until recently because of the long time it took for them to interview me.

I don’t understand why they can’t make the hiring decision sooner. What frustrates me even more is that they had hired an paid intern for a more specific program in the department two weeks ago (I’m more of the general department intern). Now that there’s a paid intern, I feel like I am being undervalued for the amount of work I do and effort I put in. And often times, my supervisor gives me very short notice to complete projects because she was given a very short time by the people who she’s working with.

I don’t know if their intentions are. Do they think it’s okay to wait until the end of my internship, which is this week, to hire me? The job description stated that the position is temporary, lasting from February to June. February is over, and March is soon to be, too. I feel overwhelmed with the amount of work I’ve put in in the last six months and I am still unpaid! I understand everyone’s very busy with their work, but does it take that long to make this hiring decision? How should I handle this situation?

The problem here is that you’re assuming that they should make a hiring decision along your timeline, rather than on theirs, and that’s not how hiring works.

There are all sorts of things that can make hiring take a long time: assuring that the funding for the position will be available, resolving questions about whether the funding should go to this position or somewhere else, dealing with higher priorities that come up, interviewing candidates and checking references, waiting for decision-makers to be in town, and much more. (And wouldn’t you rather have them wait until they’re confident the position is fully funded than to hire you and lay you off in two months?)

The timeline for filling the position is going to be determined by what makes sense on their side, and how it fits in with other work they need to juggle. It’s not going to be determined by when you’d like it to be done. It might take far longer than what you were originally told; that’s normal. It might stall; that’s normal. It might get pushed aside because other things are more important to them right now; that’s also normal.

Moreover, it sounds like you’re thinking that the job is yours if only they’d hurry up and offer it to you, but there’s no guarantee that they’re going to hire you at the end of this. You were one of a group of candidates who was interviewed. It’s possible that the job will go to someone else.

You are sounding as if you feel oddly entitled to something that you’re not really entitled to. That has the potential to make you unhappy in a couple of different ways: If you really believe that you’re entitled to this stuff, you will be frustrated and unhappy when others don’t give it to you. And if it shows in your attitude at work, it will impact your reputation (and maybe their interest in hiring you).

I understand that you’re feeling resentful because you’ve been working all this time unpaid, but …. you agreed to that when you took the internship. They’re under no obligation to hire you, they haven’t made any promises to hire you, and you knew you were signing up for an unpaid role when you took the job. It’s not reasonable to be resentful that they haven’t converted you to a paid position. It’s not reasonable to be resentful when people don’t give you something they never promised you.

As for what you can do, go talk to the person in charge of hiring. Say that with your internship ending tomorrow, you’d love to get a sense of their timeline for making a decision, and whether you’re a finalist for the job or not. But that’s all you can do — you can’t push them to move any faster, and you can’t even reasonably expect them to move any faster.

Hopefully, you haven’t been counting on this position coming through and you’ve been conducting an active job search over the past few months. If you haven’t been, start that immediately and move on mentally from the idea of this position. If you end up getting it, it will be a pleasant surprise. If you don’t, you’ll be focused on a job search elsewhere anyway.

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A reader writes:

I intern at a high-end design company where we create one-of-a-kind visual art. I am an unpaid intern. The studio manager has told me that despite me creating artwork for the company, I have no rights to use it in my portfolio ever. She also said that many of the techniques I’ve learned at the internship I cannot use when I move on. This was when my internship was ending and I wanted samples for my print portfolio. Is this true?

I obviously would steer away from copying work I’ve done to use at another company, but as far as my portfolio goes, I feel like I should be able to show people photographs and samples of what I’ve worked on while I was at the company. It isn’t really possible for me to recreate the work I’ve done outside of the studio because I don’t have the resources. They are using painting and drawings that I created with my own hands and then used their resources and guidance to reproduce. Many of these samples are what they show to clients to give them a sense of the studio’s capabilities.

Essentially, my question is, what can an unpaid art studio intern expect in terms of being able to show physical representation of the work they’ve done?

It’s true that the work that you create for your employer belongs to them, and they say how it can be used.

But it’s pretty unusual for an employer to refuse to let you use samples of your work in a portfolio, particularly when it’s artwork (as opposed to, say, confidential company documents that could contain trade secrets or sensitive client information). Unusual, but with in their rights to do — because, again, they own the work you produced while employed by them. (Of course, I’m not sure how they’d know if you included samples of your work in your portfolio, as long as you don’t put it online — so you might choose to go ahead and put it in a hard-copy portfolio to show to prospective employers anyway.)

But as far as owning skills and work techniques that you developed while working there? I’d need to know more about exactly what those techniques are, but in most cases they shouldn’t be able to prohibit you from using those again — unless the specific techniques are patented or you signed an agreement to that effect at some point. (There might be other exceptions to that; lawyers, feel free to weigh in.)

Overall, the situation sounds shady. If they have good reason for these unusually strict requirements, they should have filled you in before you took the internship so that you could have decided if you were interested in working on such atypical conditions. You might not have taken the position if you’d known. Or maybe you would have, but I’m sure you would have felt better about the whole thing if you’d agreed to it up-front, rather than having it mentioned to you afterwards.

Oh, and hey, while we’re on the subject of what they can and can’t do, if they’re a for-profit company, they probably can’t have unpaid internships, at least not the kind it sounds like you have. Unpaid labor at for-profit employers is illegal unless the net benefit is to the worker — and it sounds like they’re profiting quite a bit from your labor. (Of course, this law is broken all the time, generally without consequence, but it’s worth being aware of, particularly if they’re going to jerk you around on other issues.)

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InternMatch asked me to take a stab at answering some of the questions they hear a lot from interns, specifically:

  • How do you deal with uninvolved managers? I’m not getting enough projects assigned to me, and when I ask for direction, I get vague assignments that I’m not sure how to carry out.
  • I want to be involved in more meetings to get the most out of my experience. What is the best way to ask to be included without sounding presumptuous?
  • I earn a stipend through my internship, and I’m struggling to cover my expenses. How do I negotiate travel reimbursement to help with the situation?

They’ve posted my answers today, which you can read here.

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A reader writes:

I just finished an internship last week and sent my last project to my supervisor. My supervisor e-mailed me and asked me to add information to the project that he hadn’t mentioned I needed to include before. It’d probably take me at least three hours to do it. The internship was unpaid, turned out to not be good experience/learning-wise, and I did all the hours I agreed to do, so I don’t think I “owe” them more time. I’m also starting a new internship this week, so I don’t exactly have a bunch of extra free time to be still doing work for them. They have 15 interns each semester, so it’d be easy for him to hand the work off to someone else in the spring since the work isn’t time sensitive.

Is it unreasonable for me to not do the extra work? Can I just remind my supervisor that I’ve finished my hours and say I’m starting another internship and don’t have time to do additional work? I don’t want to “burn bridges” but I really don’t want to have to force myself though another few hours of tedious free work while I’m busy starting another internship either.

What?!  This guy knows that your internship ended last week, right?

Yeah, just email him back and tell him that now that your internship is over and you’re starting a new position, you don’t have time to continue to do work for him. Thank him again for the experience, blah blah blah, but no, you don’t need to continue to do work now that the position is over.

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A reader writes:

What is the best way to say in an internal job interview that I don’t think I’ve shown the company my best work yet?

I’ve been an unpaid intern for a couple of months at this organization where I have an interview. I have it on good confidence that my interview is not out of courtesy, but that I am a serious candidate.

Due to a number of money, personal, and work structure stresses, I just haven’t been as nice and diplomatic as I normally am at work (or at home, but that’s a whole different matter!). Many of these issues would be resolved if I were to receive and accept an offer for the postion I will interview for, which would be in a different department and under a different manager:

- Money: I’d actually be getting paid, finally. I could afford to do more than buy groceries and pay rent, which I’m lucky is low due to location and living with my partner.

- Personal: not getting paid for doing equal or superior work (after doing underpaid internship after internship and several years real world work pre masters degree) has made me feel insecure and inadequate in general, and admittedly occasionally resentful when budgets and other people’s fees and salaries are openly discussed in front of me.

- Work structure: I’d actually be given a specific role and have more control over how I plan my work. My current department’s work plan is more or less non-existent, and since I’m the unpaid intern, I’m used wherever on a whim with an unclear mandate under a micromanager who is trying to maintain oversight of a growing department. I’m a structured and future-oriented person. I’m also decisive and enjoy having the responsibility to do my work so the boss doesn’t have to worry about what I’m up to; she just knows I’ve got it covered and can make final decisions when necessary.

I’ve asked for and tried to carve out for myself a more clear role, often in vain.

I don’t want to come off as whining, because I’m grateful I had the opportunity to intern and show them what I’ve got. I also don’t want to diss my current boss’s management of his staff and department.

Yeah, you can’t really make that argument. Saying “I haven’t been doing my best work because I’ve been resentful and unhappy, but give me this job and I’ll do better” isn’t likely to ring true. First of all, your track record is far more valuable information about how you’ll perform on a job than any hypotheticals. Secondly, the argument itself reflects poorly on you — it says that you only deliver your best work (and behave politely!) when you feel like it, and that you think an employer should be okay with that.

Look, it sucks to work without being paid for it. But you signed up for that when you accepted the internship, and your employer accepted that in good faith. You didn’t say, “I’ll work for free but I’ll be cranky and resentful and not do my best work” — and if you had said that, I can pretty much guarantee you that they would have said, “No, thank you.”

As for the work structure stuff, I wouldn’t cite that either. You’re always going to run into challenges like that, and no interviewer wants to hear that your response has been to decide that those problems justify not putting forth your best. Plus, you might think that you won’t encounter similar problems in another department, but in an organization that allows one department to have no work plan and a bad manager, it’s a pretty good bet that you could encounter problems on other teams too. (Frankly, it’s a pretty good bet that you’ll encounter that at other employers in the future too; this stuff is widespread.) There will always be adversities, and a good interviewer is going to want to hear that you can handle difficulties without losing your cool. Interviewers are also looking to see how you operate when conditions aren’t optimal … since they rarely will be.

Again, I get that not being paid sucks. I get that it especially sucks when it’s not your first unpaid internship. But an internship is your chance to make a good impression and demonstrate why they should be excited to hire you or recommend you to someone else. You can’t mess around during the internship and then say, “Oh wait, that was just my internship behavior — let me show you the paid me.”

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A reader writes:

I am currently doing an internship at a finance company. It is more of a learning experience than anything else, since I am new to everything under finance. I am learning a lot and am so grateful for the experience. Since I am new to finance, I am mainly asked to do research on different finance topics, as well as some other research not related to finance. I always keep my manager up-to-date by emailing him my work whenever I finish with an assignment. The thing is, I am not sure that he actually reads them. He says I am doing a good job, but that is probably because it feels that way since I am updating him often, letting him know that I am not just sitting around.

My term is ending soon. I am thinking of printing out all the work that I have completed and binding it into a book (it’s not much, really), and giving it to him on my last day. Is this a good idea? What do you think? I thought it would be a good idea because I remembered that he handed me some of the previous interns’ work just to show me what they worked on. They were usually documents that he had to look for on his computer, and I thought maybe giving him this can be useful for future interns.

Nooooo, do not do this.

It’s way too “school report” rather than something you’d normally do in the workplace. If work is ever bound up together, it’s for a specific purpose — because there’s a specific reason to present it all together — not just “here’s everything I’ve done.”

Also, if you present it as “here’s a model for other interns to follow,” you risk it having a subtext of “because my work is obviously perfect and a model for others to follow.”  Which is probably not what you mean.

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A reader writes:

A connection of mine, through my alma mater, sent on my resume for an internship gig. A couple days later, the internship guy (Bob) contacted me for an interview the following week. Yesterday I went on this interview, and he gave me the internship right on the spot, to start next Wednesday. It would be part time, three days a week, 15 hours/week.

The thing is, during the interview he said he wasn’t sure if they’d be able to offer me the usual stipend for the internship. The reason is that this company has an agreement with my alma mater regarding supplying interns/giving preferential treatment to my alma mater. My school gives them interns, and they almost always hire them. The stipend, $500/month, is for those interns.

However, I am a different case because I already graduated. Bob took my resume and interviewed me knowing this. At the interview he had mentioned, however, that this special situation (of hiring an alumnus as opposed to a student) might change the stipend agreement, and Bob’s company may not be able to pay me (but they’d still “hire” me as an unpaid intern). But he is not positive.

I want to follow up with my usual post-interview thank you email. In this email I want to address this issue, because while I would love love LOVE this opportunity, I cannot do it without getting paid. As someone on the job hunt, I cannot afford spending nearly $200/month in public transportation without any sort of financial incentive. Also, due to the transportation times, I would not really be able to take a job for the mornings of the internship days, because although it’s 5 hours/day for the internship, it’s 9 hours including transportation.

Basically, I want to know how I should approach this. I know I definitely should raise my concern before I start, it’s just that I don’t know how. I don’t want to come off as “you better pay me or I’ll turn down this offer” but really, that’s the case. What should I do?

Well, first, are you sure you can do it for a stipend of $300/month after transportation costs? That is very little. And yes, I know it’s a stipend, not an actual wage, but make sure you’re doing the math on this — you’re saying you can’t do this unpaid, but you actually will be basically doing this unpaid, even if you get the stipend.

And on top of that, are you sure you want a part-time internship that’s basically unpaid that will require you to commute 4 hours round-trip every day? Because, um, that’s a little bit insane, unless this internship is going to open doors for you like no other internship ever has in the history of everyone.

But let’s say that you want it anyway, so that I can answer your actual question.

There is nothing wrong with coming across as “if you don’t pay me what I’m asking for, I won’t take the job.”  That is very, very normal. That is normal when the salary being discussed is in the six figures, and it’s sure as hell normal when you’re talking about a basically unpaid internship. Discussing money is not a taboo topic when you’re considering taking a job — it is a normal part of adult life, and I can promise you that the internship coordinator will think it’s normal too.

So send him an email and just be straightforward:  ”I’m really interested in the job and would love to work with you, but my ability to accept it would depend on being able to receive the stipend.”

Straightforward, direct, done.

But really, give some serious thought to why you’re thinking about taking on a four-hour round-trip commute for an internship.

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Good advice from a reader on managing interns:

I’m an avid and regular reader. I work for a small tech-startup (18 full-time employees). At the beginning of the summer, while considering our short term business goals, we decided to aggressively expand our normal intern program (3-5 interns) to 27 interns. I supervise 21 of them.

It’s been an interesting summer, with lots of lessons learned like:

* Offering a flexible schedule at the beginning of the summer is a mistake with college students/high school graduates who don’t have good self-management skills.

* Similarly, offering a points-based system with flexible self-direction is not the best first step.

* College students do not understand what “sexual harassment” is.

* I’m 31; sometimes 20-year-olds feel like peers. But allowing yourself to become friendly with those young interns leads them to try to include you as their peer group — not view you as a manager.

Things I will do differently with the next round of interns:

* Set strong expectations of hours worked, specific workplans, and outcomes at the beginning. Loosen the reins gradually with successful interns as they earn it. Continue to highlight successful interns’ accomplishments so that others know whom to observe and emulate.

* Cut losses quickly. If you think an intern isn’t going to work out, fire them after you’ve tried a reasonable, short-term performance improvement plan.

* Make sure to set workplace conduct expectations very clearly at the beginning — even the most mind-numbingly obvious ones, like no shouting. I’m not a mom, but if I start acting like a mom then they will expect me to be their moms. And to behave that way.

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Internships can be really helpful early in your career, but they can also harm your professional reputation if you don’t conduct yourself properly during them. Over at U.S. News & World Report today, I talk about 10 internship mistakes that you don’t want to make, including talking more than you listen, using text-speak, not bothering to learn the office culture, and more. You can read it here.

Plus, if you want to listen to a recording of me being interviewed last night on Intern Pro Radio, you can listen to it right here. We talked about what it means to have a good work ethic, what managers should think about before hiring interns, how to get something out of an internship even if you’re just filing and making coffee, the Karate Kid, and much more. The segment with me starts at 16:20 and lasts until the end of the show.

 

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A reader writes:

I am a twenty-four year old graduate of several different university and college programs. I’ve struggled to figure out what it is want to do as a career, and because of that I’ve spent the last seven years in post-secondary education, completing three different (but all relatively related) programs. I’m finishing up my most recent program, and I’ve decided that this is the one that’s going to stick (finally!).

I’m currently working in my desired field as an unpaid intern a local university, and I love what I’m doing – I’m getting a lot of great experience and my responsibilities are increasing weekly. I am creating a great portfolio of work. Four weeks of internship are required for my program, but I’m just now finishing up my ninth week with this department, as they have told me that they appreciate my work and will let me stay on (unpaid) until I find a job. Because of their budget, they’ve given me an honourarium, but are unable to actually hire me.

My problem is that my dad is driving me nuts about finding a paying position. He claims that potential employers will look down at the unpaid internship that I’m now doing, because it shows that I was not actually “hired” by the company. He has frequently told me that any paid work, regardless of the level of education required for it and the field that it is in, will look better on my résumé than the unpaid but in-my-field internship that I’m doing now. He feels that this organization is “taking advantage” of me by not hiring me on but allowing me to continue interning.

His job is not in human resources or a related field, but because he has been employed with his current organization for almost thirty years and is very well respected, he has been involved in many hiring decisions. I should note that his field is not at all related to what I want to do.

I am almost completely debt-free, and am not paying rent at the moment. I have some savings that can hold me over for probably the next several months. I am searching quite hard for a real job, but am also excited about the opportunity to stay at this internship until I find something else. Like I said, I am building a great portfolio of work.

Will people seeing my résumé look down on the fact that I am interning? I feel that it’s pretty common for new grads to do unpaid work for a bit right now to get experience and references. I don’t want to get into something that requires no education and is not in my field, because I feel like it will close doors for me down the road.

You are almost certainly better off interning in your field than taking an unrelated paying job, particularly if that job is something like retail or food service (which I assume is what your dad is talking about). By interning in your field, you’re building up relevant experience and making relevant contacts.

And I doubt that your organization is taking advantage of you. They’d be taking advantage of you if they would otherwise be hiring for a paid position for the work you’re doing, and if you weren’t getting anything out of the work, but that’s not the case. It sounds like you’re getting plenty out of the work and are glad to be doing it; that’s why you’re staying on after the initial four weeks were over.

However … is it possible that your father is speaking from a place of frustration that you’re 24, have spent the last seven years in school, completed three different programs, and still aren’t making your own money? That’s a luxury that most people don’t have, and if he feels you’re being complacent about it or taking it for granted, well … I’d be impatient with you too.

It might be worth talking to him to see if that’s what’s actually going on.

You can read an update to this post here.

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