I don’t want to help rude networkers

by Alison Green on June 12, 2024

A reader writes:

I’ve been in my industry for eight years now. From the outside, it’s a very cool area to work in (and mostly it is…) and it’s definitely more on the map as a career path than it was when I started.

Lots of grads are very interested in a job like mine, but entry-level roles are rare. I get lots of out-of-the-blue LinkedIn messages and emails asking for advice, and am always willing to grab a coffee with people to offer what I know about breaking in because it’s hard, particularly if you don’t already have connections. Over email most are polite, but in-person some are just awful: entitled, rude, uninterested, no answers to why they like the industry or what they’re after…

I’m particularly struggling with what to do with one person. A friend connected us, I fit her in for a coffee, and she was rude and dismissive — like talking to a grumpy younger sister who didn’t want to be there. I left thinking, did I accidentally email her asking to chat instead of the other way round? She then sent an email following up four weeks later, which was just a request to further connect her with people wrapped in a pretty weak thank-you.

I’m not expecting bouquets of flowers or a poem about how awesome I am, and I don’t want to be a jerk because first jobs are tricky. It’s tough and I know there’s some etiquette to it that she just doesn’t get, but I also don’t want to waste my limited brownie points with friends in the industry by connecting them to surly grads I don’t rate. How do I reply saying “You were rude and I don’t want to help” without saying that? Do I offer feedback that might help in future or is that likely to cause drama?

I answer this question over at Inc. today, where I’m revisiting letters that have been buried in the archives here from years ago (and sometimes updating/expanding my answers to them). You can read it here.

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update: I was rejected because I told my interviewer I never make mistakes

by Alison Green on June 12, 2024

It’s a special “where are you now?” season at Ask a Manager and I’m running updates from people who had their letters here answered in the past.

There will be more posts than usual this week, so keep checking back throughout the day.

Remember the letter-writer who wondered if he was rejected because he told his interviewer he never makes mistakes? Here’s the update.

Thank you for answering my question.

I read some of the comments, but don’t think people really understood my point of view. I’m very methodical and analytic, which is why I said I don’t make mistakes. It’s just not normal to me for people to think making mistakes is okay.

I did follow your advice to not mail the grandboss on LinkedIn, until I discovered she seems to have gotten me blackballed in our field. Despite numerous resume submissions and excellent phone screens, I have been unable to secure employment. I know my resume and cover letter are great (I’ve followed your advice) and during the phone screens, the interviewer always really likes me, so it’s obvious she’s told all her friends about me and I’m being blackballed.

I did email her on LinkedIn after I realized what she’d done, and while she was polite in her response, she refused to admit she’s told everyone my name. She suggested that it’s just a “tough job market” and there are a lot of really qualified developers looking for jobs (she mentioned that layoffs at places like Twitter and Facebook), but it just seems too much of a coincidence that as soon as she refused to hire me, no one else wanted to hire me either.

I also messaged the hiring manager on LinkedIn to ask her to tell her boss to stop talking about me, but I didn’t receive a response.

I’m considering mailing some of her connections on LinkedIn to find out what she’s saying about me, but I don’t know if it would do any good.

I’m very frustrated by this whole thing — I understand that she didn’t like me, but I don’t think it’s fair to get me blackballed everywhere.

I’ve been talking to my wife about going back to school for my masters instead of working, but she’s worried it will be a waste of money and won’t make me any more employable. I’ve explained that having a masters is desirable in technology and will make me a more attractive candidate, but she’s not convinced. If you have any advice on how to explain to her why it’s a good idea, I would be grateful.

I can’t advise on that — it really depends on the career path you want — but I can tell you that under no circumstances should you contact the interviewer’s connections on LinkedIn to ask what she’s saying about you.

First and foremost, it would reflect terribly on you. You’d come across as someone with no boundaries and who can’t take no for an answer — to the point that you’d seem scary, as in a potential safety concern for the interviewer. It would almost certainly get you immediately eliminated from any hiring process those connections are involved with in the future. People do not interview people who respond to rejection this way; to the contrary, they do everything they can to avoid contact with them.

Second, you’ve latched onto this theory that the interviewer has gotten you blacklisted because you’re not getting job offers. But were you getting offers before that interview? Perhaps you were and didn’t mention it, but otherwise this is just a continuation of what was happening, not a change. And even if it is a change, the interviewer’s response to you makes plenty of sense on its own; it is a tough job market and there are a lot of really qualified developers looking for jobs.

Additionally, even if the interviewer did tell some of her connections about her experience with you, she’s allowed to do that. Trying to go after her for it won’t make the situation any better; it will make it worse.

Ironically, the thing you’re accusing the interviewer of doing to you (blackballing you in your field) is something you’d be doing to yourself if you pursue this.

Last, you do indeed make mistakes. I know that because literally every human on the planet makes mistakes (do you truly believe you are the one human ever to have lived who doesn’t make mistakes?), but also because you’ve made so many of them in this situation and can’t see them — so there are undoubtedly others you can’t see too. It’s worth spending some time thinking about that rather than reflexively denying that it could be true.

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employee never eats at work, office is angry I didn’t pay for a plane ticket after I resigned, and more

by Alison Green on June 12, 2024

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. My employee never eats at work

I added a new (and wonderful) person to the team I lead about six months ago. We share an open work space. Most folks eat lunch communally, but sometimes people pop out to buy something or go for a walk. I have noticed that this new employee does not seem to eat the whole time she is at work (about 9-5). She declines snacks/fruit/pastries that we have during team meetings, will sit with folks at lunch and chat but does not eat, etc.

I can’t decide whether I should say something or not. On the one hand, I feel like whether she eats or not is for her and her circle of loved ones/clinical providers. On the other hand, I’m worried that maybe something about the way food is structured in our office (communally) might be a stressor? I work in a high-stress nonprofit job and I don’t want my staff going all day without eating — that doesn’t help anyone’s stress. If there’s something I can change about her environment to make this easier, I want to know and I want to do it. But as her manager, I’m worried asking about this is prying into her life in a way that would make her uncomfortable.

Leave it alone. She’s an adult and can manage her own food intake. There could be all kinds of reasons for what she’s doing — intermittent fasting, preferring to eat later in the day, not liking to eat around others, who knows.

If the facts in your letter were different — like if most people ate hurriedly at their desks and there was pressure not to take much time for lunch— I might advise making sure she felt she could take enough time away to eat. But that doesn’t sound like an issue here, so you can safely leave it alone!

2. My office is angry I didn’t pay for a plane ticket for a business trip after I resigned

This happened about a year ago, but I am not sure if I was in the wrong. After nearly nine years at the same organization at a job I really enjoyed, an opportunity fell into my lap for a new job with more responsibilities and a pay jump. However, at the time, I had pre-booked travel for a conference I attended annually, including paying for the flight. The trip was about a month after I would start my new job. When I resigned, my boss told me I had to pay for the flight, since it was nonrefundable. It was around $650.

My husband and I both thought that was ridiculous and he consulted with a friend who does employment law who said I was under no obligation to repay this. I told my job I wasn’t paying for the flight, I didn’t plan to use the ticket, they could have it, etc.

The way I was treated for my last two weeks was terrible. My boss, who I had formerly been on fantastic terms with (think buying birthday and holiday gifts for my kid), stopped speaking to me. My department (five others) took me to a goodbye lunch. When I said at the lunch that I enjoyed working with everyone, it was dead silence until someone said, “Well, glad we got to leave the office for a free lunch!” This was an organization of less than 50 people, and the CEO didn’t even say goodbye to me. The HR person reminded me repeatedly to return my key before I left. I recently ran into several old coworkers at an event and some of them were still salty about the whole thing. Think not saying hello even though I worked with them for nearly a decade! So … What do you think?

I think that entire office was bonkers. It’s ridiculous to think you should pay for a business trip just because you leave before it happens; if that were the norm, no one could ever safely book business travel since they couldn’t guarantee they’d be there when the trip rolled around. That’s part of the cost of doing business for your company. But far more bonkers than their stance on that is the level of vitriol they directed toward you afterwards — particularly your non-management coworkers, who shouldn’t give one tiny fig about an issue like this. (Not saying hello to you an event?!)

Related:
I resigned, and my employer asked me to write them a check

3. Returning to an office where an estranged friend works

In 2022, I had been close friends with two coworkers, Ashley and Stephanie, for about five years. We were all on the same team working remotely but we would get together once or twice per week for TV nights, dinners out, road trips, exchanging gifts, etc. That spring, I found out I would be working in our office overseas for two years. We were all super excited and we discussed visits to my location and trips back home.

That summer, about two months before I was to leave, Ashley and I had a falling-out that was completely my fault. She, rightly and understandably, cut off all contact with me. Ashley and Stephanie remained friends and, while my friendship with Stephanie was strained, we also remained friends.

Now my assignment overseas is coming to an end. They have both returned to in-office work, although on different teams. I will be returning to the office as well and have been assigned to the team Ashley is on. Through Stephanie, I know that Ashley is aware of this.

I have not had any contact with Ashley since I left. At this point, I know we will not be friends and just don’t want to make any problems for her. I don’t know how to approach this. Do I reach out to Ashley? Wait to see if she reaches out? Do I ask about switching to another team?

I would do … nothing! Don’t reach out to Ashley, and definitely don’t ask to switch to another team. Just show up and be pleasant and professional and show through your actions that you respect whatever boundaries she has in regard to you. Treat her the way you’d treat someone you don’t know well but have respect and good will towards.

Depending on the nature of the falling-out, it’s possible she’ll be ready to move past it, or perhaps she won’t. Follow her cues and don’t force any big conversations about it.

Alternately, if you really wanted to, I suppose you could send a note in advance saying something like, “I don’t want you to feel awkward about me returning to the office, so I want you to know that I take full responsibility for our falling-out two years ago, understand your decision to cut ties, and will of course respect the boundaries you’ve put up since then.” But I don’t know, it’s almost reopening the drama. I think you’re better off just showing up and being pleasant and professional, but not familiar.

4. Using a custom email domain when job searching

A nice, low-stakes question about email addresses — as you can see, I’m using a basic firstinital.lastname@gmail.com address, which I’ve had since some time during grad school when I took my husband’s name for the sake of the alliterative initials. (Kidding. Mostly.) But I’ve been considering using firstname@lastname.com instead for job searches. I feel like it’s more impressive somehow, I guess? On the other hand, the reason that we own lastname.com in the first place is the fact that my spouse is an independent contractor and hosts his portfolio and query form there.

Is anyone likely to check out the URL and be confused by that? His business isn’t controversial or anything, but also wildly unrelated to my line of work (think carpentry vs. banking). Does it matter? Am I overthinking this?

Stick with the gmail. The custom domain for your last name won’t strengthen your candidacy in any way; most people won’t even notice it, and those that do are unlikely to think anything of it. But if anyone does bother to go to lastname.com, it could be mildly odd to see your husband’s stuff there. Not a big deal, by any means — but not a plus either. So there are really no advantages to using the custom domain, and one potential small weirdness. Stick with the gmail address; it’s absolutely fine.

5. Should I put being on my condo board of trustees on my resume?

Does being a member of the board of trustees of a largeish condominium belong on your resume if you can point to specific accomplishments? Not in the employment section, of course, but elsewhere?

I wouldn’t unless the specific accomplishments are relevant to the position you’re applying for — like if you’re applying for bookkeeping jobs and you can mention the bookkeeping mess you cleaned up as the condo association treasurer or similar. If it’s specific and relevant, include it.

That said, you can define “relevant” pretty broadly! For example, I’d also include that bookkeeping example if you were applying for an admin job where you wouldn’t be working with finances but want to show organization and resourcefulness as strengths.

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update: my boss wants to hire us out for our “unique talents and skills” that have nothing to do with our jobs

by Alison Green on June 11, 2024

It’s a special “where are you now?” season at Ask a Manager and I’m running updates from people who had their letters here answered in the past. 

Remember the letter-writer whose boss wanted to hire them out for their “unique talents and skills” that had nothing to do with their jobs? Here’s the update.

I found using the suggested phrasing “I freelance in that field and it would be a conflict of interest” to be a helpful way to express my concerns politely. I think it helped my boss feel less like I was shutting them down personally and more making it about general business norms.

One of your suggestions, “I do that for fun and I’m not interested in doing it professionally,” helped me to see how crazy of an ask this was. I could see how someone might naively ask about making cupcakes for an event, or taking photos. None of the three of us asked about adding our skills to this business were asked to make our hobbies part of our job. Two of us were asked about adding our services that are related to our master’s degrees and one to a field of work that they left over a decade ago. Fields that have professional certifications and titles that are unrelated to the company.

The company was and is very successful. It provides a much needed service in my community. But as it grew with more employees and in servicing more clients, it started to become very disorganized. A few months after the infamous meeting, I was asked to start coming to in-person events. My boss knew my availability and that I was only working this job because I could work from home. These events took place during regular working hours for my full-time freelance jobs and my boss hoped I could take a day off my full-time job occasionally and come in. I was asked two days before Thanksgiving if I could work from home for a couple hours on Thanksgiving Day (I was hosting my family on Thanksgiving). We had some in-person trainings that were rescheduled multiple times with little notice because of family emergencies from other staff. One of those reschedules happened while I was on a family vacation, so my boss used my emergency contact to get ahold of me to see if the new training time would work. Another time, my boss asked to meet with me quickly on a weekend to drop off something, and then was two hours late.

I said no to all of these last-minute asks and reschedules that conflicted with my full-time job and I didn’t wait around when my boss was late. I couldn’t event attend some of the rescheduled meetings or trainings because I couldn’t find a sitter with two days notice. But this type of thing started happening several times a month and I started to resent it.

While I do feel my boss has their heart in the right place, the last-minute requests started to really add up. By late winter, I couldn’t discount it as being “new” to running a company anymore. They were showing me who they were and how disorganized they are. I kept hoping they’d get it together. That’s on me! So I put in my notice a few months ago. Even though I worked such few hours, I feel like I’ve gained so much time back.

In the original letter you made up a name for my boss, “Craig.” My boss is actually non-binary and fairly young. While I know this wasn’t the intent of your advice, I felt differently about the situation when I started to think about my boss being an older man named Craig making these same requests. (I am a cis queer woman in my forties.) I liked my boss personally, and it was clouding my professional judgement of them. I excused a lot of behavior I wouldn’t if my boss had been a different person. This has given me a lot of reflect on personally.

I’ve briefly spoken to my previous boss a few times since I left, and we seem to be on good terms. I wish them success in their company and growth in their professionalism. I’ll always root for them and their business goals. But I’m much happier not being behind the scenes anymore.

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update: HR says I have a moral obligation to tell everyone I’m autistic

by Alison Green on June 11, 2024

It’s a special “where are you now?” season at Ask a Manager and I’m running updates from people who had their letters here answered in the past.

There will be more posts than usual this week, so keep checking back throughout the day — there’s still more to come.

Remember the letter-writer who was told by HR that they had a moral obligation to tell everyone they’re autistic? Here’s the update.

Firstly, thank you so much for your response to my letter, and to all the commenters. It was incredibly reassuring and did give me the strength to raise the issue with the interim CEO. One of the commenters, also autistic, said that they felt autistics could be especially vulnerable to emotional manipulation and the feeling that we are always in the wrong — I think that’s partly why I was so twisted up about it and unsure what to do.

I think a lot of people wanted some serious consequences for Jane, which didn’t happen as I didn’t really want that. I could see that she was doing good in some other ways (I’ll explain further down!). I spoke to the interim CEO, who suggested a mediated conversation with an autistic counselor. They were able to express the issues in a much better way than I could have, and Jane apologized. I think she also got a warning from the CEO. She’s since been on a training course with an autistic charity, and we’ve had some really good conversations about autism and how it affects me.

As I said in the letter, the company had a lot of issues relating to discrimination against neurodivergent and black employees especially, and a lot of it stemmed from two members of senior management. Even while the above was going on, Jane was starting to work on that. Those two individuals have now both left the company — one was fired, and one saw the writing on the wall and resigned. It was a stressful period (the one who was fired raised several retaliatory grievances, including against Jane and the interim CEO) but now thankfully is over.

With them gone, we’ve started a DEI audit which will hopefully lead to new policies and training for all staff. I have started to be a little more open about being autistic, but haven’t yet made any company-wide announcements!

Part of Jane’s frustration came from hearing real distress from some of our employees, and feeling that I was part of the senior management and not doing anything about it. I know she was definitely in the wrong to let this lead her to tell someone I was autistic and then telling me that I had a responsibility to share this (and she now agrees and has apologized!) but I do also want to try and be stronger in future in challenging discrimination if I’m in a similar position again (hopefully not).

Thank you so much again for your reply. I was feeling really low but speaking to the interim CEO and Jane, while stressful at the time, ended up with everything in a much better place – and I’m not sure I would have done that without you and all the comments!

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what to do if you’re paid less than a male coworker

by Alison Green on June 11, 2024

With more people than ever talking openly about their salaries, you might learn at some point that you’re being paid less than a male coworker for doing the same work. Or you might have seen the data on how commonly this happens and want to find out if it’s occurring in your company – and to you. Since federal law makes it illegal to pay men and women differently for the same work, you have recourse if you’re earning less than male coworkers.

At New York Magazine today, I have a step-by-step action plan for how to raise the issue — and what to do if it doesn’t work. You can read it here.

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update: my new manager is someone I slept with years ago … and he doesn’t know we have a child

by Alison Green on June 11, 2024

It’s a special “where are you now?” season at Ask a Manager and I’m running updates from people who had their letters here answered in the past.

There will be more posts than usual this week, so keep checking back throughout the day.

Remember the letter-writer whose new manager was someone she slept with years ago … and he didn’t know they have a child together? Here’s the update.

Thank you for answering my letter. You were right, it was a really big deal. I was viewing the Jacob-as-my-manager problem from his perspective — until I told him otherwise, it was just a simple one night stand over a decade ago — and it didn’t seem like a huge problem. I hated and appreciated the reality check. I regret reading the comments, but thank you also for moderating them as quickly as you did.

A lot happened in a short space of time (thankfully I already had a therapist!). First, I spoke to my union rep who said, “Say NOTHING but call us if HR tries to set up a meeting with you.” Staying silent and having Jacob independently declare the prior relationship when he arrived would have been problematic because I’d still end up in the same position and I would have lied by omission. Our HR team can be gossipy and they know the age of my half-Chinese daughter, so I needed to have as much control as possible over the disclosure. I spoke to an employment lawyer who reviewed our policies and, at his suggestion, I wrote an email to HR declaring a prior relationship with Jacob.

And then I was immediately pushed out. Even if you have all the legal support in the world, you can’t prevent someone from doing something illegal, you just have recourse afterwards. In a meeting with my lawyer, the union rep, HR, and a member of the senior management team, I was asked to resign. When I said no, they insisted on a statutory declaration about the relationship with Jacob stating what happened, when it happened, how many times it happened (??) and who initiated it (??). I also said no to that. We ended the meeting with each side agreeing to think about possible solutions.

The company’s solution was to start messing with my pay, my benefits, my swipe card access to my office, my computer log in, and my email/calendar account. They spread rumors about me and I heard coworkers whispering that I’d had an affair with a manager. They sent me for a “random” drug test at a time when I was scheduled for an important meeting with clients. They cancelled accommodation that had been booked for upcoming travel, which I only found out about because I was getting paranoid and called the hotel.

I can’t describe how awful it feels to know that someone with this kind of power over your job is devoting their time and energy to thinking of ways to screw with you. Every day I was going into work wondering what was waiting for me and it was wearing me down fast. The advice from the union rep was to go back in time and follow their first piece of advice, or just keep documenting everything as we prepared to take legal action. The lawyer estimated that it would take at least a year to get any kind of resolution, and I didn’t even want the job anymore. By this point, I wasn’t sleeping much and I had cried a few times at work. I was beginning to crack and we were only just getting started.

So, I resigned. I wish I’d held up better under the pressure but it was all just too much with the looming deadline of Jacob’s start date at our office, and whatever way HR was going to drag him into this. I’m lucky that I can take my time looking for a new job, so I’ve had some space to process everything.

Outside of the work stuff, I spoke with a family lawyer who outlined all the possible ways this situation could go, and what the most likely outcomes were. Basically, my daughter is old enough that what she wants would get heavily weighted by a court if it came to that. I have spoken to my daughter many times about her father. I told her what I knew about him and that I had tried to contact him. I’ve offered for her to see a therapist if she ever wanted to talk about it with someone who wasn’t me, and she has always said “thanks, but no thanks.”

The family lawyer helped me write a letter which I left for Jacob. I told him about his daughter, said I wasn’t trying to get anything from him, and gave him the contact details of my lawyer. After a few weeks (of me freaking out that HR had somehow intercepted the letter), he emailed my lawyer. He was the easy-going and practical Jacob I remembered. He was still processing it but said he wasn’t going to take any legal steps, he offered us his family medical history, he apologized if I resigned because of him, and he said he would like to meet our daughter if she’s interested. She also has some siblings. I told her all this, she said she’s happy that she has her father’s contact info but she doesn’t want to meet him right now. She’s of the view that having him in our lives would cause unwanted disruption. And she doesn’t even know about the work clusterfudge.

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angry ex told my boss I’m a drug addict, manager lets employee insult me, and more

by Alison Green on June 11, 2024

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. An angry ex emailed my boss saying I’m a drug addict

I had a great job as a systems analyst working remotely, but this job coincided with some drama in my personal life. I was dealing with a messy breakup with my ex-partner — I ran a background check on him and learned that he had lied about much of his past, and pretty much everything else. I asked him to move out, and he eventually did, but not without a fight. In a moment of stupidity, I decided to send a group text to about 10 mutual friends of ours and let them know that he was a fraud and a liar, essentially everything I had discovered from the background check.

As a form of retaliation, I suppose, he then emailed my boss and the HR director at the company I worked at and told them I was a drug addict who was goofing off on the clock. He also said that when I was in the hospital, I actually wasn’t, which was a lie. But the whole thing changed my boss’ tune about me entirely, and they began to ask questions.

The reason my ex had their email addresses is because I was in the emergency room a few months prior and I gave him their contact information. I thought it would show that I really was incapacitated, because I was, and my partner could help communicate updates to my boss. Big mistake there.

When my boss started asking for documentation on the hospital visit, I provided it, but then they noticed that my hospital visit was only for three days, but I was out for five days. I needed a few days to recover, so I don’t see what the problem was, but they became very suspicious and in a moment of stress and pressure, I “quit” for health reasons.

How should I have handled that differently? I asked for my job back a few weeks later, explaining that my ex was trying to ruin my reputation, but they didn’t seem interested in taking me on again.

Your boss and HR suck. People generally need additional time to recover after whatever caused a three-day hospital stay; it’s very common to need to be at home for at least a few days after being discharged from a multi-night hospitalization! Even if that wasn’t immediately obvious to them, it should have been once you pointed it out.

I’m curious how things had been going in that job before your ex’s email, and what your relationship with your boss was like. Typically when an employee is in good standing, an email from a stranger with an obvious agenda won’t carry a lot of weight (assuming reasonably competent management — a key caveat), so I’m curious if there had already been any issues that were putting a strain on things at work. I say that not to blame you — you were the victim of a vindictive ex-partner — but simply because I’m trying to make sense of how your boss and HR ended up where they did. Either way, though, their response was horrible. Did they express any concern for you or just move into accusatory mode?

As for what you could have done differently … ideally you wouldn’t have quit, and instead just calmly held firm on the truth: “I was hospitalized for three days and then had two days of recovery at home. I’d be happy to get you documentation from my doctor if it’s needed.” But I wouldn’t second-guess yourself; it sounds like a deeply stressful situation where you had been betrayed on multiple levels by a partner, and then your job started in on you too. Don’t beat yourself up for not making optimal decisions during something like that.

2. My boss lets my employee insult me in meeting after meeting

I am a middle manager in a small nonprofit, having taken over an underperforming team two years ago. I am under a great deal of pressure to perform at a high level while turning them around.

They are not turning. I put the lowest performer on a PIP six months ago and have weekly meetings with the employee and my boss, the organization’s director. We are a small org and she acts as HR.

The HR/PIP meetings are unbearable. My employee spends them insulting me and my boss tells me repeatedly that I cannot respond defensively because that will “affect the process.” One on one, my boss tells me that this process isn’t about me, and my employee has to say her piece. But I can’t imagine repeatedly insulting my boss to her boss and remaining employed. It doesn’t sit right with me. That, and the fact that this has dragged on for six months, has made me question my boss’s actions in this whole matter. Am I correct to question this and should I be looking to get out?

You should be looking to get out. A six-month PIP with no signs of ending? A boss who tells you to sit through meeting after meeting to be insulted so the employee can “say her piece”? She’s said her piece. Repeatedly. PIPs are not couples counseling where everyone gets out all their feelings; they’re intended to be action-oriented — here’s what needs to change, here’s the timeline for when the change must happen by, and here are the consequences if it doesn’t. A couple of months maximum (often ideally less) and with a focus on action, not endless discussions. And on top of that, you’ve been charged with turning around an underperforming team and this is what happens when you try to meet that mandate? And on top of that, the head of the org isn’t willing to act when action is needed (and I’d bet that shows up in a ton of places, not just in managing low performers) — and she wants you to operate in the same way.

Tell your boss (who doesn’t know what she’s doing) that it’s time for the PIP to come to an end and a decision made about this person’s employment. But meanwhile, this isn’t a job — or an organization — structured in a way where you can succeed. Get out and go work somewhere that doesn’t expect managers to manage without giving them the tools to do it.

3. Pressured to sign safety releases against my judgment

The summer I turned 18, I was a junior camp counselor at a sleepaway camp. The campers in my bunk were only four years younger and often out of control (to the point of escaping the bunk repeatedly after curfew). The camp had arranged for their whole age group (multiple bunks of rising high school freshmen) to go on an overnight camping trip, complete with rafting and rock-climbing, organized by our nature counselor but run by a separate outdoor adventure company.

That company required legal waivers for every camper. And so, before we left camp, all of us counselors were given the waivers for the campers in our bunk and told to sign them. The other counselors basically did as they were told, but I didn’t want to sign anything without reading and understanding it. (Recall, I’d just turned 18. This was probably the first legal document I would have been signing in my entire life.) So, I read it, and it asked me to affirm that the camper named could do the activity safely and responsibly and that I knew of no reason they shouldn’t participate, and that I would be responsible for anything that happened. And, frankly, I didn’t trust that some of these kids would act appropriately and not put themselves or others in danger.

I was already getting hassled by more senior camp staff for reading the document (they just wanted quick signatures to get the task done, and the senior counselor in my bunk was out that day). I said I wasn’t comfortable signing and explained why. They tried to pressure me into it, multiple ways. They tried to claim it wasn’t any different than what I’d already agreed to by taking the counselor job. (I think the phrase “in loco parentis” was used.) Somehow I held my ground, at least somewhat — I may have signed a form or two, but not for any campers I didn’t trust … and I think ultimately I put up enough of a fuss that they got some other sucker to sign, or did it themselves. I don’t think anyone ever took my concern about the campers’ participation seriously, though … and it was probably luck more than anything else that nothing majorly bad ended up happening on the trip.

What could I have done here? What should I have done? What should they have done? This is bonkers, right?

You were absolutely right to refuse to sign those forms, and good for you for holding firm in the face of pressure — something that a lot of people find hard to do at 18 (hell, something a lot of people find hard to do at 45). People sometimes like to act as if signing a legal document is no big deal — but believe me, if that were the case, then they wouldn’t need you to sign it at all. The fact that they want you to is what tells you it matters, and you should take it seriously.

I also question if you even had the legal authority to sign on behalf of those campers. Those sound like forms that should have been signed by their parents or guardians; I doubt you even had the legal standing to attest to what the forms said, even if you wanted to. The camp should have coordinated to get the forms signed by parents before camp even started.

You did the right thing. You can always say, “I’m not comfortable signing this.”  You were right to refuse — and whoever signed instead of you was probably in the wrong.

4. Navigating small social/networking circles as a manager

I’m a mid-level manager in a professional field that requires a significant training period that’s historically relatively conservative and male-dominated; my particular niche still is heavily weighed to men, especially in leadership roles.

I found my current job when Petunia, a woman I did my training and was friendly with, reached out when a staff opening happened. I was then promoted during the pandemic, so I became Petunia’s boss.

Another woman, Iris, also trained with me and Petunia and works in the same field but a different company. She started inviting a group of women in our field to meet at local restaurants monthly to discuss life over dinner. We talk about work stresses and it is helpful to hear shared perspectives; it has been going on for maybe a year and a half at this point. It’s really nice because there aren’t many women to meet and not any women managers nearby.

Iris knows Petunia, my direct report, is now going through a divorce with small kids at home and wants to invite her too. I feel conflicted. Iris and I are good friends. My answer to Iris was that she can definitely invite Petunia but I should probably bow out of the group as I don’t want to give the appearance of favoritism since I’m the boss. Truthfully, I’ve always been careful about what I’ve said in this venue anyway but would feel totally unable to talk about things, as I’m very private at work and furthermore, even if I wasn’t her supervisor, I wouldn’t want to hang with Petunia.

Iris opted to not invite Petunia so I could come. Now I feel guilty. Did I mess up?

No! You’ve been a part of the group for a year and a half. You explained that you couldn’t continue to participate if they invited Petunia — for very sound reasons — and they opted to ensure that you, an existing member, could remain in the group you’re already in. That’s reasonable. You also didn’t demand they not invite Petunia; you explained what it would mean for you, and they made a decision from there. That’s also reasonable.

That said, if this is practical, maybe you could encourage Petunia and other junior women you work with to form their own group. You could explain the value you’ve gotten from the one you’re part of and suggest they might do something similar.

5. When should I disclose MS?

I have recently been diagnosed with MS. I have a lot of social credit saved at my current workplace so it is not begrudged if I need to take time for a flare. I don’t have many symptoms and rarely need to take time off, but that could change at some point in the future.

If I decide to move jobs, when should I disclose my condition and is it dishonest to “hide” it until it becomes a problem?

You don’t need to disclose it at all until/unless there are specific accommodations you want to ask for. And even then, you generally wouldn’t need to disclose the condition itself, just that you have a need for medical accommodations. (Some people prefer to name the condition, figuring it helps people to have context and understand what’s going on, but that’s completely up to you and your sense of what will be easiest in your particular workplace.)

That’s not dishonest; your personal medical information isn’t your employer’s business.

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updates: my coworker won’t stop touching and complimenting me, and more

by Alison Green on June 10, 2024

It’s a special “where are you now?” season at Ask a Manager and I’m running updates from people who had their letters here answered in the past. Here are four updates from past letter-writers.

1. My coworker won’t stop touching and complimenting me (#2 at the link)

I acted very cold and avoided him the best I could, but he wasn’t totally getting it and then one day I wore a new lotion and he immediately said, “Did you change your scent?” I said yes. He said he could tell because “I know your smell.” I guess that was my final straw because I finally told him he’s creepy as hell and the comments he make really bother me. He got defensive and actually quite hostile towards me, even saying I am acting like I have “white privilege.” I was shocked and angry and after that totally avoided him the best I could. He quickly moved on to a new female hire … following her and bugging her non-stop … but luckily he was also engaging in some dishonest stuff at work no one knew about and he was fired. Work’s been wonderful ever since! He’s gone.

2. How do I stop myself from getting overly attached in the application process?

Thank you for publishing my letter! A lot of the commenters mentioned — and I noticed this as well — that your analogy to dating was pretty spot on, and with that perspective (as well as help from the aforementioned mental health professionals and my wife) the job hunt … well, I won’t say it got easier prima facie, but it got easier to manage.

In the meanwhile, I’ve had two jobs. One was with a Trust and Estates firm run by a lawyer who was brilliant at what she did, but kind of threw me too quickly into the fire without any training and got stressed by the fact that, well, I didn’t know what I was doing, so she conceded that she should have hired someone with more experience, and we parted ways amicably after about two weeks. The second job — where I am now — is with a business litigator who’s … old school is the best way to describe him. He pays me well and he hands out bonuses like it’s going out of style, but he’s cantankerous and curmudgeonly, and the benefits here are middling. Oh, and he smokes cigarettes in his office, something I didn’t know during our one Zoom interview and something that definitely would have given me pause if I was able to interview in person. So I’m still job hunting — in fact, as I write this, I got off a first round interview with a pretty big in-house financial counseling firm that seems like it would be a good fit for me, and if anything happens between now and when this is published, I’ll be sure to shoot off an email, or leave a comment if this is published by the time I hear news.

3. Our new admin crashed the company car and lied about it (first update)

Pam stuck around another nine months, doing fine but not amazing, and then left for a new position. While she was a decent employee and did a lot of things well, in the end her departure worked well for the business. There were no issues with trust as she didn’t do anything to make anyone question her truthfulness again and the accident quickly became water under the bridge. However, it was difficult to keep her workload full: she repeatedly made small (but not negligible) mistakes that made leadership nervous about handing her larger responsibilities with big repercussions for an error. Her manager tried to work with her on the attention to detail but it never consistently got better, and she must’ve seen the writing on the wall and found a position that was a better fit. We wish her all the best — no regrets with the original decision, but not amazing “this was 100% the right choice” update either.

4. Calling students “clients” when transitioning out of teaching (#4 at the link)

I am the (former) teacher who asked about translating my classroom skills into corporate-speak.  I’m happy to report that I found a job outside of teaching not long after you printed my letter. I adjusted my resume to focus not only on the results of my work, but the how (example: “Led the creation and execution of a site-wide training plan by establishing a working group and developing customized training materials, raising pass rates from 17% to 76% in one year”). It took me a while to get over the imposter syndrome of feeling like my work was irrelevant or somehow juvenile, and finding pride in my accomplishments helped me to see more clearly the value I can bring.

To any teachers who feel like your experience is irrelevant: you have so much to offer! Everything we do in the classroom, from analyzing data to long-term project planning, has a corollary outside of education. The only difference is you’ll have half as much to keep track of mentally, twice the autonomy, and infinitely greater room to grow professionally. I have been promoted twice, earn more money than would have taken me years to achieve on the district salary schedule, and was able to take a real maternity leave! Speaking of which, if you’re in California, urge your state senator to pass Assembly Bill 2901, which would allow teachers to take paid maternity leave (instead of hoarding sick days and trying to time for a summer baby like I and my former colleagues did).

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updates: how can I pull back on a friendship with a coworker, and more

by Alison Green on June 10, 2024

It’s a special “where are you now?” season at Ask a Manager and I’m running updates from people who had their letters here answered in the past. Here are four updates from past letter-writers.

There will be more posts than usual this week, so keep checking back throughout the day — there’s more to come today.

1. How can I pull back on a friendship with a coworker? (#2 at the link)

It certainly has been a learning experience and implementing some of your suggestions has worked in a lot of ways. I greatly appreciate your help. I think I needed permission to not be as nice as I was and it was helpful that other folks had similar experiences in the comments.

Shortly after receiving your initial advice, this person and I disagreed on a work policy and they blew up at me. They also were having similar interactions with other coworkers on different floors and in different departments. I decided then and there to put your steps into action and also take it a bit further to protect myself and my sanity! I realized I needed to follow my gut and give myself the green light to limit friendships in the office, starting with this one.

What’s worked:

I stopped answering calls and texts from them on my personal devices. If they talk to me about work, it has to be via traditional company channels so I can keep a paper trail. I muted their messages in my cell phone so I am not alerted to their attempts to contact me outside of work hours. If they ask, I just say that I didn’t get it or I was busy and saw it too late. I am busy outside of work so it passes muster.

I have ended my open door policy completely. I used to keep my door to my office open all the time. I do not anymore. If I know that the person in question is on site, I will close my door, lock it and mark that I am in a meeting or busy. It sucks because it restricts my own movement in our building but, it helps discourage them from coming to my space. I have asked if anyone needs me, to message me and ask if I have the time. This gives me the option to say no.

I also stopped speaking to them about any issues or information I have about work or people at work. This means no gossip or information is shared unless about a specific joint project. If they try to come vent to me I say, “I have only a few minutes before my next meeting” to cut the interaction short. If they ask my opinion, I don’t have one. I also do not ask follow-up questions.

As a result, we do not hang out in or out of the office anymore. We do not spend much time speaking other than to go over project details or if they have a question. It is still hard. There is a definitive shift in the energy when we interact. We are still polite, but they are hot and cold with me. Because of the incident mentioned earlier, I am sometimes on edge but the restricted engagement has helped me manage.

2. A disgruntled fired employee says he’s coming to a work event I’m planning (#3 at the link)

I spoke to our human resources person, and she told me that she and the director had already reached out to the local police about coming to the event, and Sam was notified that he is barred from attending it.

They’re still waiting to hear back from the police, so I will be checking in regularly until I hear that they’ve actually agreed to come, and if they don’t, I’ll look into hiring private security or canceling the event.

On the urging of the commenters, I also contacted local law enforcement about Sam, because a) I don’t know exactly what upper management told them and b) I realized that my concerns about Sam won’t end even if this event goes smoothly.

3. My husband and I share a home office — how do we make this work?

Thanks for running this Ask the Readers question last year! I had a busy day when it ran and didn’t participate in the comments at all. It sure was interesting to look back and see all the assumptions people were making! As I expected, the most useful feedback we received was from people who actually do share successfully home offices. Thank you to all those who shared their experience!

What we took away was the most important thing is to be sure we’re not on calls at the same time to avoid audio interference. So we set up an alternative call space in our bedroom (aka I cleaned off my vanity), and then every morning we compare schedules and decide who’s going to take calls where. We set up the shared office the month before I went on maternity leave, and we’ve been loving it ever since! We both always use headsets and virtual/blurred backgrounds for calls so this works perfectly for us. We also have a clearly defined workspace space away from the baby (who is taken care of by someone else in the house during the day), which was important to us.

So with some good communication we have a super easy solution … no need for my husband to do an hour long commute everyday, share our bedroom with a baby for a year (he moved into his own bedroom at four months and everyone slept 100% better), or my favorite ridiculous suggestion: build a freestanding wired office shed in our tiny backyard. Maybe if we have another kid!

4. Can my younger coworkers read cursive? (#4 at the link)

The commenters helped me realize I could ask my 20-something direct report, who was the one I was most worried about, especially since the power differential would have made it harder for her to speak up. She delightedly said that she loves cursive, but that her same-aged family members who grew up in this area generally can’t read it. Like I said in the comments, it doesn’t come up a lot, but it seems reasonable for me to take a second to think about whether cursive is likely to be comprehensible before using it in work-related things.

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