Ask a Manager

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. A conversation about kittens led to a lecture from HR

Yesterday I was called into a meeting with HR where I was reprimanded for an inappropriate sexual comment that I made. I did make the comment, it was absolutely inappropriate, and I am mortified! I apologised to Joan, the coworker who raised it with HR, and I will make sure nothing like that ever comes out of my mouth again.

There was some context for the comment that Joan didn’t share with HR, and neither did I because I was too ashamed to say much. Another coworker, Beth, saw the whole interaction and thinks I should provide the context to HR now, and she has offered to verify what happened. I don’t think I should because it doesn’t unmake the comment, I don’t want to come across as blaming Joan, and I got the impression that HR considers the matter closed.

Here’s the context: it is well-known in the office that my partner and I foster kittens until they’re old enough to be spayed/neutered and adopted. Coworkers sometimes ask about the cats as break room small talk. Yesterday, Beth and I were sitting at the table having lunch and chatting, when Joan walked in to make coffee.

Beth: How many kittens do you have at the moment?
Me: Four little bottle-fed ones
Beth: Oh, so tiny! What have you named them?
Joan: I hate cats.
Me: Oh … we can talk about something else?
Joan: Cats are a menace and kittens should be drowned, not bottle fed.
Beth and me: …
Joan: Cats are disgusting, they walk over every surface to make sure everything is covered in their urine and feces germs. If you live with a cat, you’re basically walking around covered in urine and feces.
Beth and me: …
Joan: And they come and rub their face all over you after they’ve spent the whole day licking their own anuses.
Me: I mean, humans lick other people’s anuses, at least cats mostly lick their own.

Joan walked out of the kitchen and the next thing I know, HR is telling me I can’t make jokes about anal sex in the break room. What Joan said wasn’t okay either, but I wish I’d just continued to sit there in stunned silence. I think I should just mentally file her comments away under Joan being rude, as they’re not HR-worthy. But do you think I should give this context to HR so maybe they don’t think I brought it up out of nowhere? Or just let it go, learn from it, and try to move on?

Well … if we had a time machine, I’d want you to explain it in the initial conversation with HR — not as “so therefore my comment was OK,” but to explain that you didn’t just pop out with a analingus comment out of nowhere (in fact, Joan introduced the concept) and that Joan herself had opened with an alarming non sequitur advocating animal abuse, and if we’re reminding people of what is and isn’t okay to say in an office, perhaps there’s one more topic here that should be addressed.

But now, after the fact … well, I don’t think you have to go back and correct the record. They’ve probably moved on and don’t think it’s a huge deal. But it would also be fine if you wanted to go back and say, “I was too mortified in the moment to share this, but I did want to give you further context so you understand that I didn’t just make a sexual reference out of the blue, which I would not do.”

2. How to politely not compliment weight loss

I saw your answer to “Coworkers want to ask about my weight loss” and wondered from the other side — is it impolite of me to not mention a coworker’s weight change?

I am uncomfortable discussing weight and body size with most people (not just a work thing!) and would rather skip the topic if I notice weight change. But if everyone else is complimentary about it, does it look impolite for me to not mention it?

No, it’s not impolite not to mention someone’s weight loss. There are people who are excited about losing weight and hope people will notice it — but there are also a lot of people who don’t want to talk about it, especially at work, and/or who aren’t happy about the weight change (particularly if it’s from illness or other not-pleasant circumstances), and their right not to feel their bodies are being assessed at work trumps the first group’s pleasure in hearing compliments. Sometimes you might know that a particular person falls in the first group (because you’re close enough to them to know, or they’ve clearly indicated it) and that would change the calculation — although even then, if you prefer not to talk about other people’s bodies, it’s not impolite to opt out!

In general, when in doubt, err on the side of not making people feel like their bodies are being scrutinized at work.

3. Are sleeveless blouses “tank tops”?

Our company recently sent an email “reiterating” our dress code (business casual), scare quotes on account of they slipped in some language that definitely was not there before: specifically, a ban on tank tops. In the “allowed” column, for shirts, it only mentions “short and long sleeved shirts/blouses.” I’m wondering if, as communicated, you would consider sleeveless blouses to be in compliance, or if I would be better off steering clear of anything that shows my shoulders.

I’ve attached an example of what I mean by sleeveless blouse. I have enough shirts like this in my rotation that I honestly am wondering if I’m what triggered this email, though in my opinion this cut is perfectly professional!?

Nah, those are sleeveless blouses. Tank tops have straps.

If you want to be sure, you can always ask them to clarify that; send a photo like the one you sent me. But sleeveless blouses are a common businesswear item, and they’re typically considered much more professional than tank tops, which read more casual. (Whether or not this makes sense is a different question, but lots of fashion rules have evolved in ways that don’t make sense. See also: skirts vs. shorts.)

4. Does my employer need to raise my salary if I’m not using their health insurance?

I work for a super small nonprofit that only started offering health insurance as a benefit a few years ago, where my employer covers half my health insurance as a benefit and the other half is taken out of my salary pre-tax. My husband is getting a new job with great benefits that will allow me to also be covered for way less than I’m currently paying, so we plan to switch as soon as he’s eligible.

My husband believes that, once we switch, my employer should automatically increase my salary to include the half of the health insurance they were paying, since that won’t be an expense for them anymore. While I think that would be nice, I don’t believe they have any legal obligation to do so, and am worried I would risk some political capital there if I brought it up. Are they under a legal obligation to increase my salary the amount they were paying for my health insurance?

No, they have no legal obligation to do that. Some employers have a policy of offering it anyway, but a lot don’t. You can ask though!

5. Handling multiple company name changes on a resume

I’ve been working at the same company since getting my degree six years ago, and I’m thinking it’s time to move on. However, the company has undergone two name changes since I was hired, and I’m not sure how to handle that on my resume. For example, when I was hired, the company was called Llama Shearing Systems. Then a few years ago we were bought by a larger company, Big Wool, and became Big Wool Llama Division. Now our parent company is rebranding and changing its name to Wool International, making where I’m working Wool International Llamas.

Do I list each name individually with the dates I worked during those particular name changes? Or do I write something like “Wool International Llamas (formerly Big Wool Llama Division, formerly Llama Shearing Systems)”?

Also, since this was my first job out of college, all of my references will likely be managers from various times during my employment at this company. Do I need to specify what name my company had at the time my reference was managing me?

You don’t need to list each name individually with the dates you worked under that name. Just use one name heading for the company and make it this:

Wool International Llamas (formerly Big Wool Llama Division and Llama Shearing Systems)

You also don’t need to specify which name the company had at the time your references were managing you, although you can. If a manager only managed you under Big Wool Llama Division, then list their affiliation as Big Wool Llama Division. But if they managed you through numerous name changes, just list the most recent name.

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. Employee said awful things about a coworker … while on the phone with them

I’m writing about an incident that happened to my coworker, “Jane.” Jane was out of town over the weekend and her corporate lodging card wouldn’t work. She called an admin, “Elvira,” for assistance. Elvira does not like Jane. When Jane explained her situation and asked for help, Elvira turned to her boyfriend (another coworker) and said some awful things about Jane. Elvira either failed to mute her phone or didn’t think she could be overheard; unfortunately, Jane heard everything. It started with “Oh my God, it’s Jane f***ing Smith. I can’t f***ing stand her,” and it went downhill from there. Apparently Elvira got very worked up, to the point that her boyfriend could be heard telling her to calm down.

(Side note: Jane indicated that, based on Elvira’s slurred speech, she might have been drunk during the call. That could explain why she became so worked up. In Elvira’s defense, it was the weekend and she was not on call, so whatever she does on her own time is her business.)

In the end, Elvira did end up assisting Jane, but Jane’s feelings were obviously hurt. Jane is not confrontational and is not likely to tell anyone in management about the incident, especially because Elvira and the HR manager are close friends outside of work.

I am a manager, but not to any of the parties involved. Do I have an obligation to speak up about Elvira’s behavior? I am privy to the fact that Elvira is currently being coached (by her friend, the HR manager) to be less abrasive in the workplace. But the information from Jane is just secondhand. And I worry that my own distaste for Elvira is clouding my judgment. What is the right thing to do?

As a manager, even though you’re not Jane’s manager, you have some obligation to speak up if you’re aware of an employee being abusive to/about a colleague while on the phone with them. This is also an employee who’s already known to be problematic in the way she talks to people. It’s hard to argue that you should keep that to yourself; being a manager gives you a higher degree of obligation to escalate things that are obvious problems for your team/the organization. If Jane strongly doesn’t want you to, that complicates things — but you could point out that the issue being reported is Elvira; Jane just happened to be a bystander, and if Elvira is willing to treat Jane that way, who else might she be targeting abuse toward, including people with less power/influence than Jane and who might not tell anyone about it?

(Also someone, presumably not you, needs to talk to the HR manager about how her close out-of-work friendship with Elvira is a conflict of interest. At a minimum, it’s going to give people pause about reporting concerns with Elvira.)

2. Interviewing at a company where the executive team is only white men

I (a woman) am currently interviewing for a new position. I do have a fairly stable position that I am currently in, so it’s not super urgent, but I’m pretty miserable and would prefer to move on sooner rather than later. Last week I received an invite to interview for a company that at first sounded like a dream. They use a new up-and-coming technology that I’m passionate about, and they use it in a way that both makes the world a better place and makes them a lot of money.

While researching the company in preparation for my interview, I found that every single member of their executive team and board is a white man. The position I am interviewing for is a senior position and a step down from where I am now, so seeing a valid path for growth is important to me if I’m going to take the position. My gut feel is that I would very quickly hit the glass ceiling at a company that has no diversity on their executive team, and isn’t even ashamed to show that on their website for the world to see. Is there any possible explanation for this that is not what it looks like? Is there any way to have the conversation with them without them feeling like I’m accusing them of something? Is it even worth attempting to have a conversation? I’m sure their response is not going to be, “You know what, we never looked at it that way, you’re right, we’re going to fix that!”

No, it’s what it looks like. It’s not an accident.

That doesn’t mean that they’re flagrant racist and sexists who twirl their mustaches while plotting to maintain their grip on power. It does mean that something’s up in their decision-making, culture, and worldview that has somehow led to only white men having a voice at the top of their organization. Will that change at some point? Maybe. Will it be a frustrating path for the first woman or non-white person who makes inroads into their top leadership? Probably. Some people are up for doing that, and others are not.

But you can definitely go to the interview and find out more. It’s very reasonable to say, “I noticed your executive team is all white men. Can you tell me about what the company is doing to bring other voices into leadership and to create paths for advancement for women and people of color?” If they bristle at that or just give you empty corporate pablum, that will tell you a lot.

3. Is this too many interviews?

I’m currently hiring for an entry-level role at a nonprofit. We’ve had issues before where entry-level candidates think they will be doing substantive policy research with a touch of project and stakeholder management, when actually it is the other way around. My team has spoken to HR about how we are advertising the position (but that is a whole other issue).

My team has organized the following interview process:
1. Screener call with HR from a list of 10 candidates
2. 45-minute call with hiring manager (me) — short list of six candidates
3. 30-minute written assessment. We make it clear that they should spend no longer than 30 minutes on this. Expected to send to 4 candidates
4. 30-minute call with another member of the team — narrowing to 2-3 candidates
5. 30-minute call with executive director (1-2 candidates)
6. Offer

HR wants to skip steps 3 and 4 entirely, saying it’s too much for an entry-level position. However, our executive director does not have the time to speak to more than 1-2 people as anything more than a final confirmation before we make the offer. We’ve struggled with retention in part because I think the interview process has been rushed and not allowed sufficient time for the candidate to get to know the team and the role, particularly before meeting our (wonderful) but at times intense executive director.

Am I off-base? This is my first time leading a recruitment process and I want to be respectful of people’s time and attention.

If these are all separate steps (as opposed to several of them occurring in the same appointment), and I’m guessing they are since you’re narrowing down the field at each stage, this is too much for an entry-level position. That’s not to say you shouldn’t be rigorous in entry-level hiring; you should be. But this is too many separate steps.

Don’t get rid of the written exercise though! At least, not if it gives you a direct look into how candidates actually perform. That’s often more valuable than an interview is. I’d get rid of steps 4 and 5, or at least combine them into one step (so you schedule a one-hour meeting and they spend the first half with a team member and the second half with your ED). I’m curious how much value you and candidates get from those last meetings though, and if you’re looking to pare it down, that’s the obvious place to cut.

If you’re struggling with retention, I’d look at how you’re assessing candidates and how you’re communicating the job and culture to them. That’s not likely a “need to add interviews to the process” problem; it’s a problem with how you’re using the time you have with people in the early steps on this list. (Or it’s a problem with the position itself, the salary, or the wider organization.)

4. Company asks about my financial goals for the upcoming year

I work for a small professional services company (~25 people), and overall I love my job. I’m a higher-level individual contributor, and have been a fantastic performer in my 10-year tenure with the company. Our annual review process is quite detailed and time-consuming, but is taken very seriously by managers, which I appreciate – but there is one question on our self-reflection form that always stumps me. The form asks, “What are your financial goals for the upcoming year?”

I think it is generally understood that this question is meant to give associates a space to ask for a raise, or otherwise negotiate compensation, if they choose to. (After all, my personal financial goals such as “pay off a credit card” or “save for a down payment on a house” are not really any of my boss’s business.)

While I appreciate the sentiment behind this question, I never know what to say in years where I am not asking for a merit-based raise or promotion. In the past I’ve written something along the lines of, “I am happy with my current level of responsibility and financial compensation.” But in truth, I do expect the standard 2-3% cost-of-living raise (and it’s always been given, even though I haven’t asked for it explicitly). Is this a common question to ask in end-of-year reviews? If so, what is a professional way to answer?

It’s a badly worded question because it does sound like they’re asking about your financial goals outside of work, even though you know they’re not.

But since they’re raising the question, why not ask for more money every year? You say you do expect it each year (and it’s not unreasonable to expect your salary to go up each year — at a minimum to keep up with inflation), so let’s be explicit about it. And don’t limit yourself by citing a “2-3% cost-of-living raise.” Say you’d like to see your salary increase “commensurate with my increased contributions, as well as the cost of living.” They’re asking! See what happens.

5. Do employment laws not apply to indigenous tribal employers?

A friend works for an indigenous nonprofit in our state, and made a complaint to HR about harassment they were receiving from coworkers. HR is now retaliating, which I understand to be illegal. But when they contacted an employment lawyer, they were told that none of the usual HR rules apply to indigenous organizations. Complicating matters is that this nonprofit receives federal funding. They have spoken to several lawyers and have heard the same thing each time, but I find it impossible to believe that HR just ceases to exist when an organization serves indigenous populations, particularly when they’re federally funded. Is this true, or have they just spoken to lousy lawyers?

I’m guessing this is a tribal employer. Most federal employment laws, including Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act (the federal anti-discrimination statute), don’t apply to tribal employers, even if they receive federal funds. (This is because the tribes are considered sovereign nations.) Someone working for a tribal organization won’t have recourse in state or federal courts; they’d need to seek redress from the tribal council (and likely would need a tribal law attorney).

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. Can I ask my employer to cover the costs of vet bills caused by my job?

I work in a job that requires going to other people’s houses, and a few months ago when I went in to visit a client, their pet had a pretty bad flea infestation. I followed the correct health and safety protocols and went straight home after this client to get changed and immediately put everything I had been wearing in the wash.

Apparently it wasn’t enough because a few hours later I discovered insect bites on my arms and face, and found a few insect bites on my own pet. Over the next few days, my pet quickly became unwell and started displaying the exact same symptoms as the client’s had. It’s been a few months and several trips to the vet and my pet is still having ongoing issues that the vet has said are most likely caused by an allergy to fleas.

I mentioned this to my boss at the time, but I didn’t say anything about the money as I didn’t realize the issue would be ongoing and cost so much. However, while I can technically cover the costs of the vet bills, it’s starting to add up and is eating into savings I was putting aside with the hope of buying my first home.

Can I explain to my boss how much this has cost and ask if the company will cover even some of the vet bills, or will I need to just write this off as an occupational hazard of working with other people? My pet stays completely indoors and very rarely has health issues so, while possible, I think it’s unlikely they could have caught fleas elsewhere and I find it too much of a coincidence that it happened the next day. I guess I’m feeling resentful that, working in such a low-paid industry to start with, I’m now having to carry the cost of issues that were absolutely no fault of my own. My boss is very reasonable and pragmatic and has been very supportive towards me on other issues.

Well … you can ask. If the fleas had caused your own medical bills, you might have a stronger case. A pet might be one level too removed for them to act on, but you can still raise it. They may or may not agree, but it’s not an inherently unreasonable thing to ask about.

Frame it as, “My work brought me into contact with a client with fleas, which then came home with me, and I’ve had $X in vet bills over the last few months because of the issues it caused. Is that a cost the company would consider helping me cover, since it directly resulted from that client visit?”

There’s a good chance they’ll say no because you could come into contact with fleas in so many places, just going about daily life … but it’s not an outrageous thing to raise, as long as you’re prepared for that.

2. Coworkers want to ask about my weight loss

In the past year, I’ve lost a pretty significant amount of weight. Fortunately it’s been intentional and healthy, and I’m quite proud of finally taking better care of myself.

My coworkers have been extremely complimentary, especially as the weather has gotten warmer and the changes more visible. However, I am struggling with how to (1) take the compliments gracefully and (2) end the discussion quickly. Several have asked what I’ve done to lose the weight, and a simple “diet and exercise” response is often followed up with more pressing questions about my specific program. I would rather not answer that for several reasons — mostly I think it veers into pretty personal territory, and I don’t want to seem preachy. I also am keenly aware that weight is a sensitive subject for a lot of people, and I think open office discussions about weight loss/fitness/diet could create a really unwelcoming atmosphere that I do not want to contribute to.

Some coworkers also follow up with comments denigrating themselves, which I also hate, and am not quite sure how to respond to.

Any scripts/tips? Everyone has been very kind and no one means any harm, so while I want to be clear in my boundary, I don’t want to seem cold.

Some options:

“Oh, I hate talking about bodies and diet. But I wanted to ask you about (subject change).”
“I’d actually be so grateful not to have to think about it at work! But I wanted to tell you about (subject change).”
“Oh, I’m trying to keep a resolution to avoid diet talk, but I wanted to ask you about (subject change).”

If you follow it up with a warm (subject change), you’re not going to seem cold.

3. Can I ask management if they have plans to improve?

I’ve been working part-time at a small business for about a year and a half. I noticed issues right away — the facility was disorganized, internal communication was inconsistent, equipment was dirty or broken — but our industry was hit hard by the pandemic, and the manager gave me the impression that certain aspects of the business had been scaled back accordingly, so I assumed the chaos was temporary. Plus, it was still a big improvement from my previous situation.

Fast forward a year, and it’s exactly as chaotic as it was when I started. I’ve come to suspect that the standards and procedures which I assumed fell by the wayside during the height of Covid likely never existed at all. Basic elements of the work are simply not being done, and what is being done is not being done well. There is a pervasive attitude of “eh, someone else will fix it.”

Well, that someone is usually me, and it’s starting to wear me down. I do what I can in the time I have, but it feels like trying to move a mountain one pebble at a time. Most of my coworkers spend their shifts watching TV or browsing social media while doing as little work as they can. The manager knows, but I can’t tell if he’s given up, doesn’t care, or just doesn’t view assigning work and overseeing its quality as within the scope of his responsibilities.

I’m about to take six weeks of unpaid medical leave and they’ve agreed to hold my job (not a legal obligation, as we’re too small for FMLA), but I’m trying to figure out if I want to come back, or if my time might be better spent looking for other opportunities.

I enjoy the work, I like the hours and the commute, and I get along with my coworkers and manager, despite their slacker tendencies. Both the manager and the owner have been very complimentary about my performance, including acknowledging my above average effort with a 5% raise. I could see this place as a solid starting point for the career I want to build … but not without some changes to the way things are being run. Is there a courteous and professional way to ask the manager if he and the owner are genuinely content with the state of things? Should I be clear with them that if the answer is yes, I’ll be moving on? Is it even a conversation worth having?

It’s not a conversation you should put much stock in. They are content with the state of things — or at least they’re content enough not to do anything about it. That’s not going to change because an employee complains. The changes you want to see are major, fundamental ones that would take real buy-in from the top (like an entirely different philosophy about managing and a completely different bar for performance). They’re satisfied with how things are and/or aren’t capable of/likely to change things. Assume what you see is what you will continue to get, and make your own decisions accordingly.

In fact, I’d argue it’s a bad idea to even try to have the conversation because the best case scenario is that they sound interested in changing things, which then strings you along and you stay longer even though nothing meaningful will actually change.

Related:
can bad employees and bad managers change?

4. My terrible coworker listed me as a reference

I have received a phone call from a woman in my office. She “forgot” that she put me down as a reference on her resume, and now she is applying to jobs. She wanted to give me a heads-up that she had already told the places she had applied to (and had first round interviews with) that I would be expecting their phone calls.

I agreed in the moment, because I didn’t know how to tell her no and was a little blindsided. Obviously this is poor manners on her part, but that’s not the reason I am writing.

She is a terrible employee. She has been on a PIP for a long time. She has been with us for nearly two years and doesn’t manage any of her own projects while everyone else had their own project caseload within three months of being hired. She regularly misses work without notice, and recently took over a month of leave without telling anyone she would be doing so. This resulted in a welfare check by the police, which is how we discovered she had left the country. She is scheduled for 8 am – 2 pm, and today she showed up at 9 and left at 1:30. Frankly, if I had it my way, she would have been fired eight months ago when these issues started to appear.

Because we are in a small office, the owner of the business is the only “senior” who could provide a reliable reference but I can understand why she doesn’t want to use the owner! I am a little conflicted on how I can proceed. My gut instinct is to tell any reference calls, “I am not her manager so I can’t tell you about the quality of her work. However I can tell you that she has worked for this company since [X date] and was a friendly coworker.” Is this the best course of action? We don’t have an HR department to refer back to because of the size of the company. My partner told me to tell the owner but I am reluctant to do that.

Don’t say that! That’s a mildly good reference — not a very useful one because it’s so mild and contains almost no information — but it’s certainly closer to “good” than “bad” so it would be misleading. There’s no point in relying on references if people are going to omit major problems like that. Just be honest, like you’d have wanted her references to do for your organization before they hired her: “If she had told me she was offering me as a reference, I would have suggested that she not list me. I’m not her manager, but what I’ve seen of her work hasn’t been good. I don’t feel well positioned to say more, but I’d suggest you talk with her manager if you want a reference for her work here.” If you don’t feel comfortable being that direct, the next best thing would be to just say, “I’m not her manager, and I don’t feel equipped to comment.”

Ideally you’d also go back to your coworker and say, “Now that I’ve had a chance to think about this, I don’t feel comfortable being a reference; please don’t offer my name. I’d suggest using (owner).”

5. How do I network with former clients?

I was recently laid off from my role within an agency where I was a well-regarded and high performing member of a creative team. The layoffs (mine and the rest of the small creative team I was a part of) were sudden and very surprising. Because of some savings and being able to collect unemployment, I was able to take a little time off to recoup and reset, but I’m now to the point of needing to find my next role. From my work at the agency I had very good relationships with some of our clients. These are people who know my work and who I collaborated with closely. As I started my job search, I wasn’t exactly sure if or how I could use this network of former clients.

For example, I don’t think the layoffs and restructuring of the agency are common knowledge and I think will be fairly shocking to these former clients and I’m not sure how appropriate it is to reveal that information in a networking request. Outside of the layoff issue, I don’t even know what the specific email/request could be — “hello, I am now unemployed — do you or anyone you know have a job for me?” I’ve never leveraged my network to find a job before and for some reason I just can’t quite figure out the best way to start those conversations.

You don’t need to open with the layoff, but you also don’t need to hide it if asked. You can open with some short pleasantries and then say something like, “I wanted to let you know that I’ve left Agency and I’m figuring out my next move. I’m looking for (describe what you’re looking for). If anything like that comes to mind, I’d love to hear about it.”

If they ask why you left, it’s fine to say they laid off your team; don’t get into lots of big emotions about it, but factually relaying it is fine. It’s what happened, and you’re not obligated to your former company to hide that on their behalf.