interviewing

A reader writes:

I’d like to ask about your thoughts on something quite strange that happened to me.

I applied for a job in a Fortune 500 company and I was thrilled to hear that I passed the first phone interview and was called for a one-to-one meeting with my prospective new director. This company is opening a new office in my region and the director was going to fly all the way from a different state to interview a bunch of candidates pre-qualified by the HR team. Because the company doesn’t yet have a physical office in my town, the interview was scheduled to happen at a luxurious hotel.

When I got to the hotel, the director was still in an interview with another candidate and had me wait for an extra 5 minutes, which I don’t see a big deal; this can happen to anyone. After a friendly welcome, he led me to a table at the hotel bar (which wasn’t a bad idea because it was quieter over there than on the hotel hall, but I was expecting to go to a conference room or something like that) and told me to take a seat. At this moment, I saw on the table an empty beer glass and wondered whether he was interviewing someone while drinking beer. Then, to my surprise, while sitting at the table, he ordered another glass of beer for himself and asked what I what I’d like to drink. I ordered a glass of water.

The interview itself was great. It was a two-way conversation where for the first time ever I felt like a consultant rather than a candidate (as you say to strive for in your book). However, there were some moments when he yawned badly, so I’m not sure whether he was bored with my speech or if the alcohol was affecting his consciousness. But I certainly didn’t see much professionalism in him because of the beer, and I wonder to what extent that could affect my job if I were hired. However, if he is a top director at a major organization, there must be reasons for that. Plus, I want that position and don’t want to take this “beer case” too much in consideration, which is hard to do.

At the end of the meeting, he said that I was a good fit, but that he had to finalize some more interviews before making a decision. He also mentioned that if I go to the next stage, I would be interviewed again by HR because it’s the company’s policy, which is quite weird (I presume) considering that they already interviewed me, and also I should be interviewed by some of his managers from other regions who would be on my level within the organization.

The thing is that I don’t know whether I should take the beer drinking as a red flag (well, certainly it’s yellow) or simply let it go.

So, what do you think? Have you ever come across to something like that? What would you do? Shall I drop my application? Regarding the next round, do HR departments really interview candidates twice?

It sounds like this is going to surprise you, but I don’t think you should be especially concerned about the beer drinking. Some people do interviews over lunch and have a glass of wine or beer with the meal. This is no different. He didn’t seem intoxicated, and plenty of people could drink two beers without any noticeable effect, particularly if they were spaced out as these two sound like they were.

And in fact, it sounds like you had an interview that you considered one of your best, so it doesn’t sound like the beer negatively impacted anything. The open yawning is a little uncouth, but I wouldn’t assume his willingness to baldly yawn was was related to the beer, since you didn’t see any indications of intoxication.

I do think it would have been weird if you’d been interviewing in his office and he had a beer on his desk … but this interview was in a hotel bar, and plenty of people wouldn’t blink at having a beer while conducting business in that particular situation.

As for being interviewed another time by HR, that’s inefficient but not unheard of. Some companies will have HR do an initial screening, followed by an interview with the hiring manager, followed by a meeting with HR to talk about HR-ish things like benefits and salary expectations. It might signal that they’re a little bureaucratic, but I don’t think you need to worry that any of this means you’d be entering into a den of crazy hiring practices and drunken blow-outs.

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No matter what field you’re in, if you’re interviewing for jobs, you’re likely to encounter interviewers who ask some version of, “Where do you see yourself in five years?”

And apparently people really struggle with this, because when the question has come up here in the last few weeks, people have unloaded a torrent of confusion and annoyance all over it.

So over at U.S. News & World Report today, I talk about what interviewers are looking for when they ask this and how you can answer. You can read it here.

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A reader writes:

If companies would rather hire people who are currently employed, why do they make it so hard to interview around a job?

I clearly state that in my cover letter than I’m currently a “Junior Teapot Designer at Hatter & Hare” and email is the best way to reach me, yet I’ve had recruiters call me at 3 p.m. and others ask me to interview at 11:00 a.m. with just two days notice.

WHY are they doing this?

Also, I was venting to a friend about this, he advised me to take the day off from my current job and not inconvenience the prospective employer, but two days is really short notice for a time off request. How much can I ask them to accommodate me?

Note: This is not all hiring managers. Several places have been very accommodating, offering to meet in the morning or late afternoon so I can slip out for a “dentist appointment.”

Well, first, you’re assuming that they’re requiring this of you, but they’ve simply asked if you can do it. You can offer a different alternative: “I’m booked up this week; would next week work instead?” or “Mid-day interviews are hard because I work during the day; could we meet first thing in the morning or in the late afternoon?” It’s utterly reasonable to ask this. They might tell you no, but plenty will be perfectly accommodating once you tell them what you need. But don’t get irked before you’ve proposed an alternative.

It does make sense to offer the soonest possible day you could do it though and not put it off until the perfect time, if the perfect time is more than a week away. It’s simply in your best interest to talk with them fairly soon, since many companies do have hiring deadlines, a vacancy they’re itching to fill, and/or are interviewing people on a rolling basis and will make an offer as soon as they find someone they like for the job.

And the reality is, many candidates are able to accommodate these requests, so it’s not crazy that they’re asking in the first place. After all, why wouldn’t they ask for what would be most convenient for them? They’re figuring you’ll say something if it doesn’t work on your end.

Of course, there are certainly some employers who will tell you that it’s their initial scheduling proposal or nothing at all. And there are plenty more who can be flexible on the day, but who won’t meet earlier or later than normal working hours.

But those who operate that way do it because they can. They have enough good candidates who are willing to meet with them on relatively short notice during normal business hours that they don’t have sufficient incentive to come in early or stay late for others.

Now, a great hiring manager who knows how much it matters to get the right person on her team will do what it takes to talk to strong candidates, even if it means coming in early or leaving late or meeting at an unusual time or delaying the interview for a week or two. (If you truly look like a top candidate; if you don’t, it’s less likely. And you don’t always know from the outside if you’re likely to be considered a top candidate or not.) But plenty of other hiring managers figure that if they have lots of good candidates who will meet on a schedule that’s convenient for them, there’s no reason to put themselves out.

It’s useful to realize that the answer to questions about “why do employers do ___?” is often simply “because it works just fine for them.” If they have plenty of good candidates willing to do X (whether it’s interviewing during the workday, or accommodating last-minute interviews, or accepting a lower salary range), then they don’t have incentive to inconvenience themselves for candidates who can’t or won’t do X.

Hiring isn’t about being fair to everyone, after all; it’s about an employer finding someone to do the job well in the way they find most efficient or easiest to accommodate on their end. A smart employer will ensure that they’re not putting up barriers to hiring the best people (and that means ensuring they’re making it easy for great candidates to talk with them, not just good candidates), but in this job market, they often have a lot of flexibility in doing that. And sometimes that means that their practices will align well with what works for you as a candidate, but other times it doesn’t — that’s just the reality of it.

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A reader writes:

I was wondering whether you could offer advice on how much to disclose to an interviewer. I graduated last summer, and after 10 months of interning/temping and applying for jobs, I’ve finally started receiving invitations to interview and in one case a job offer. Now, most people will think I’m insane to do so in this economic climate, but yesterday I turned down a job offer for a 9-month contract with a local company.

My reasons were threefold: a) they wanted me to start with immediately without giving notice to my current employer, and as I’m currently interning for a charity whose work would suffer if I did that, I felt uncomfortable; b) the offering company’s immediate start requirements were such that I couldn’t be spared for even a day to go back to my nonprofit to assist in training/handover; c) I had negotiated with my nonprofit a day’s leave to attend a job interview for a well-paid and, more importantly, exciting graduate scheme in another city, but the immediate start requirements of the local company would make it impossible for me to attend the interview.

While my concerns for the nonprofit did have a large impact on my decision to refuse, I must confess that the inability to attend the interview was also a factor. A two-year graduate scheme with a potential for continuing with the company after that period was more appealing to me then a 9-month contract with no prospect of continuing/extension.

Now my question is this. Past experience has taught me that a common interview question is, “How much do you want this job/how dedicated are you to our graduate scheme or organisation, etc.?” Is it appropriate for me to tell my interviewer that I turned down a job offer with another firm (they are broadly speaking in the same industry but have very different concerns) in order to meet with them? Or does this qualify as “over-sharing”? I have a number of other reasons why I want to work for the graduate scheme company — primarily their commitment to environmental concerns (such as reducing their carbon footprint), their rate of growth/current expansion, and their customer service/public opinion (the UK public recently voted them #1 in their field) — but I want to ensure that my hunger for the position is clear. Feedback that my friends and I have received on other graduate scheme interviews is “We weren’t sure you wanted it enough” — but would telling them the truth be going too far in the other direction?

Nooooo, do not say that at your interview.

First of all, it’s going to make a lot of interviewers uncomfortable. If I’m interviewing a candidate who I’m not at all sold on yet (which is generally the case with first and even second interviews), and I hear that they turned down a job offer that they otherwise would have taken just to interview with me, I’m going to feel pretty awkward about the fact that I’m sitting there knowing full well that I might end up not hiring them. (And normally I expect that they know that full well too, but now I’m going to be wondering if you think your chances are better than they are.)

And turning down an offer in favor of an interview for a job that you have no idea what your chances of getting are can also come across as questionable judgment. Unless you had other reasons for turning down the offer, in which case it makes more sense — but then your statement “I turned down a job to take this interview” won’t seem accurate anyway.

It also raises the question of why you’re sharing the information with the interviewer; the sharing part itself can look like questionable judgment, and like you don’t understand the above.

Now, that doesn’t mean that it was bad judgment to turn down the job offer in general. In fact, it sounds like it was excellent judgment, because they asked you to screw over your current employer, and as a general course, it’s smart to say no to those offers — both out of integrity and out of concern for your reputation.

But that has nothing to do with the interview. In that context, there’s no benefit to bringing it up, and potential harm.

If you’re hearing that interviewers are unsure about whether you’re sufficiently interested in a position, there are much, much better ways to make that clear:  Seem enthusiastic. Say it directly. Explain why.

But don’t say the equivalent of “I turned down a marriage proposal that I would have otherwise accepted just so I could have coffee with you” and expect it to go over well.

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I’m throwing this one out to the readers for suggestions. A reader writes:

I’m wondering if you can give me some advice on how to deal with a potentially awkward situation I deal with every day.

Due to some medical problems that do not affect my ability to work, I perpetually appear to be about 5-6 months pregnant. My doctors and their nurses even ask me how far I am along. Dressing differently, as others have suggested before, is like trying to cover a 700-pound gorilla in the corner of the room.

When confronted by strangers on a daily basis, I just make jokes when people comment on my “pregnancy” and tell the horror stories of the people who were much worse than them, we have a good laugh, and move on.

But how do you deal with this in an interview? I also don’t want to concern a future employer that I have a large number of health issues that will impact my performance.

Readers, what advice do you have?

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A reader writes:

I applied for a job that I thought I’d be a good fit for. It turned out that I was applying to a recruiter, and he phoned me the next day and wanted to meet. We had a coffee meeting at one of the outlets the company I was applying to is running. I clicked with him immediately, and he said he wanted to introduce me to the client, which would involve a meeting with a recruiter who was working for the company and charged with recruiting for this position.

When I met the second guy, he said he would definitely like to introduce me to the owner/director of the business.

I met with the owner/director, who was really cool. We talked for over an hour, and half an hour after I left, the original recruiter was in touch saying how much she liked me and wanted to meet up again.

An email heads-up from Recruiter 1 said that she would like to hear me explain what I can offer the company and how my skills can help move it forward. I decided to compile notes on all areas… sales, communication, people, costs, then round off with talking through the words people have used to describe me in feedback i’ve had throughout my career. I thought we had covered this already and in detail.

I got to the interview this morning and there was another man there, who the owner had worked with before with huge success. When I sat down, they said, “So, talk…”

This threw me completely and I started talking with a voice I’ve never heard myself using before, just pure nerves. I talked through everything I had prepared and they both said I had covered everything. They did comment on my nerves at the end, and I tried to explain that I am not always like this in business meetings, but this being about all me and at such a late stage… yeah, I was nervous.

The reason my head is on fire just now is that at the end they said, “We’ll get back to you on Monday, we think… we might need candidates at this stage to complete a personality test. We’ve hired badly in the past and we don’t want to make mistakes again.”

Meanwhile I’m thinking, “Christ, this is the fourth interview I’ve had regarding this… I’ve been very open and honest and I think I’ve given a full picture of who I am and what I can do.”

They kept talking about avoiding a bad fit, but as far as I was concerned I had decided I really wanted to work for them after interview #3 and told them that. So I guess my quandary is… getting a second interview is a signal that they’re really interested, getting a third one should be even more positive, right? But a fourth or a fifth? I just do not know what to make of this; my head is buzzing.

Getting the right fit is important — and while you’ve decided that you’d like to work for them, that doesn’t mean that they’re sure that the fit is right on their side.

And sometimes it does take multiple interviews to be sure that the fit is right. And after all, it’s better for both of you to invest time at this stage than for you to end up struggling in the job and quitting or getting fired later.

But when an employer is doing this many interviews and asking for a lot of a candidate’s time, it’s really important for them to ensure that they’re organized and strategic about it — so that they’re not using someone’s time irresponsibly. And that’s what worries me about this company. They had you do two separate interviews with recruiters before you actually talked with a hiring manager, and when you finally did talk with a hiring manager, they apparently didn’t bother to ask you how your skills could help them (since they needed to ask for a later meeting for that), and then they had you return for a fourth meeting without explaining why that was necessary.

Moreover, in that fourth meeting, it sounds like they weren’t especially warm or collegial (“So, talk…”), which is concerning at any stage, but especially in this context.

What we can conclude is that, at a minimum, this is a company that doesn’t quite know how to hire well and isn’t especially concerned about being considerate of you.

So, what can you do? You can certainly say, “I’m very interested in working with you, but before we go any further, can you tell me what the rest of the process is likely to look like and your timeline for filling the job?” That might get you some useful information, or it might not. It also might nudge them into thinking about how this is all coming across to you, or it might not. But it’s worth asking.

You should also do some serious probing into their culture, and how they make decisions, and how they operate in general — because those are things that will have a major impact on your quality of life while working there, as well as your ability to succeed in your work for them … and right now there are some red flags going up around that stuff, so you should really do some due diligence there.

To be clear, it’s not the number of interviews that concerns me on its own — sometimes that really is warranted, for some jobs (although I don’t know if this is one of them or not). What concerns me is their haphazard approach to it, and you want to see if that approach is typical for them in other areas.

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A reader writes:

I have a unique situation that I ran into and would like your perspective on it. I went to an interview, and as soon as I opened the door, I knew it was not the place for me. I already had some reservations going in, but was trying to keep an open mind. But opening that door to the office shut it right away for me.

The first indication was the size of the office. I thrive in a medium to large environment and this was the exact opposite. I tried to research this beforehand but was unable to find exact information. The second indication was that I want a place with other colleagues to interact with, who aren’t afraid to talk to each other, that has a life to it, and this was definitely not the place for that. It felt more like the living room in a house that was just for show and not a place to be in.

The other thing is that, perhaps odd to say, I think you can tell a lot when you walk into a place by the energy/feeling around it. Are employees happy, is there a sense of life, etc.? When I opened the door, all I felt was despair and stress. It was just sad. Which confirmed my initial feelings from a phone conversation.

While waiting to be interviewed, I was debating even if I should go forward. What are your thoughts? Should I have just told the interviewer right away that I knew it was not the place for me? Or would that have been rude and it is proper to go forward with the interview?

I’d say to do the interview anyway. Announcing that just from looking at their offices you know it’s not the place for you is a pretty dramatic statement. I’m not saying it’s not a valid one — but it’s the kind of thing that’s going to be fairly shocking to be on the receiving end of, and that those people will remember forever. And you might not care if they do, but they also might be connected to some other job that you’re applying for some day, a job that you do want, and you don’t want them to say, “Oh, her! We were supposed to interview her, but she arrived at our office and immediately said it wasn’t the right fit, without even talking to us.”

Now, if this were an all-day interview or involved some other major investment of time and energy, then I’d say it would be more okay to back out … but even then, I’d still talk with them for a while before backing out, so that you could more credibly tell them — based on that conversation — you don’t think it’s the right fit, and then excuse yourself.

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A reader writes:

I recently interviewed with a nonprofit organization and was asked to come back for a second interview with their chief philanthropy officer.

During the first interview, I found out that a local colleague had done some work with the capital campaign. I followed up with him to get the inside scoop. Unfortunately, he told me about all of their internal dysfunction (board, governance and leadership). I am looking to move to a more stable nonprofit so it doesn’t seem like this would be a right fit for me. However, it’s an organization I would consider working for in the future — if they got their act together.

How do I decline a second interview without burning bridges? Should I mention speaking with someone (unidentified) who gave me more insight into the workings of the organization? Or should I just keep it general — have decided to pursue other opportunities, etc.

Do not say that you spoke with someone who told you that the organization is dysfunctional. That will achieve nothing other than making your contact there really uncomfortable. And, really, what are they supposed to say to that? “Yes, we are a mess”?

It also serves no purpose — because what are they going to do with that information? Someone anonymous said that they have problems. Either they do and they know it, and hearing it from an outsider isn’t going to change anything. Or they don’t know it, in which case this will just be annoying to hear. Or they’re actually fine and your friend is wrong, and now they have to worry about what’s being said about them. There’s no purpose to any of that. And it’s not like they’re going to fix their issues and call you in a year and say, “We’re all cleaned up now, so we’d love to talk to you again.”

Instead, keep it general. You’re focusing on other jobs that seem like a better fit for you right now, etc.

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A reader writes:

A year ago, after a long tenure at a large corporation, I decided it was time for a change. The company had been undergoing significant turmoil, and a number of my peers had already been laid off or had left on their own. The position that I took is at a very nice company, and I like the corporate culture here. However, I am just not finding the role to be quite the right fit, and I find my manager unprofessional (at best). I’ve done some scouting around here to see if I could switch managers and that doesn’t seem to be an option, at least not any time soon. HR has given me some strategies to deal with my manager, and it’s helped a bit, but I’m a working mom with young children, and if I am going to have my little ones in daycare, it’s going to be for a job that I really like.

What I decided to do is to see if there are opportunities at companies where there are clumps of employees from my former employer. I’ve kept in touch with a lot of people and LinkedIn made this process easy. There are four local companies that fit the bill. One of these happens to have an opening which sounds like a great fit, and as an an added bonus, it’s very close to my home. I applied (and I took the time to write a cover letter only because of your blog, so thank you). I then right away reached out via email to the two most senior people at this new company who I know. They both immediately offerred to help me out, and one of them even walked my resume into the hiring manager’s office for me (the CFO). I had the phone screen scheduled within a few hours, and I am waiting to hear when an interview will be scheduled next week. In the phone screen that I had earlier today, the recruiter made it clear that she had already asked around about me, and that I have the support of several people behind me in my candidacy for this job.

Here’s my question: I know about ten people at this company. I’m friendly with a lot of my coworkers, but I tend (for various reasons, some of which have to do with my work role) to keep my work life and my personal life separate. I mean, I chat with my coworkers and we’re friends, but I don’t see very many people outside of work, and I tend to drink very little at company events. So when I go into the office for the interview, if I see old coworkers who I know, do I hug them hello? I don’t want this to be awkward, and have I mentioned how very appreciative I am of the support? But the idea of hugging people hello while in a new office on an interview … I am concerned how the recruiter might view this. I definitely don’t want to give the impression that I am taking it as a given that I am getting the job because I have connections. What do you think?

Don’t hug them.

Greet them warmly, look pleased to see them, ask them with interest how they’ve been — but don’t hug them.

I know there are lots of huggers out there, and there are even some offices where hugging is normal (to my enormous discomfort), but there are far more offices where hugging as a greeting — even when you haven’t seen the person in a while — doesn’t generally happen. So it’s certainly not expected, and it’s not going to look weird if you don’t.

Of course, if someone moves in for a hug to you, return it — don’t pull away in horror or anything. (Assuming it’s not this woman.) But there’s absolutely no need for you to go in planning on hugging anyone.

And no one will be offended by that. It’s an office, you’re former colleagues, not close friends, and you’re there for a job interview, not cuddles and embraces.

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