my injury is preventing me from going on a company cruise — and my company wants me to pay them back for my ticket

A reader writes:

I recently injured my left leg, leaving me to have surgery mid march. I was out of work for four weeks and returned to work about three or four weeks ago on intermittent FMLA for four to six hours of work a day. I’m not authorized for full weight bearing yet and have been struggling getting around on a knee scooter.

Our company does an annual trip as a gift to the employees (free trip) and this year is a cruise. I signed up before I was injured, and was told I should have let HR known I wasn’t going over a month ago. The thing is, I was home on bed rest and on pain med (so I was incoherent). The trip was the last thing on my mind.

I made it very clear that my doctor advised against it and that I’m not comfortable feeling unsafe and unstable. I can even get a doctor’s note; they said it wouldn’t make a difference. They are going to make me pay for the trip if I don’t go. Are they allowed to do that?

I can’t think of a law that it would violate — other than the law of Be Reasonable. But they’re being incredibly crappy about this. Things happen — you had an injury. It’s not like you’re just being cavalier with their money and signed up for the trip but then decided that you’d rather stay home so you can go to a Justin Bieber concert.

I would say this to them: “I was really excited about going on the cruise, and I would go if I could, but I have a medical situation that makes it impossible. I’m not in a position to pay for a trip that I’m not taking, and given that this was supposed to be a gift, I certainly hope you won’t make me pay it back. I think that would be really demoralizing to everyone, not just me, and would make people hesitant to sign up for these trips in the future, since anyone could have an accident or get sick or have a family emergency. Can you please exempt me from paying this back? If the company has travel insurance, perhaps that would handle it.”

If they hold firm, your company sucks, and you shouldn’t be shy about letting your coworkers know what’s going on (and point out that the same could happen to any of them). Group outrage might put some pressure on them.

It’s so weird how many employers haven’t figured out that things meant to be morale boosters (like free trips) cease to be so when they’re accompanied by jerky acts. (See also: penalizing people for not attending holiday parties, pressuring people to participate in pricey “team building” activities, and holding mandatory athletic events.)

{ 213 comments… read them below }

  1. animaniactoo

    I might also approach this from the direction of “Hey, I was out of my mind, what were YOU doing?” – but tactfully of course.

    “Unfortunately, the cruise was not something that was on my radar, as I was still in a lot of pain and on pain medication that made me very fuzzy at the time. However, given that this seems to be so high on their radar and since HR was aware that I was out with a pretty major injury, can I ask why they were not more proactive about checking with me about whether I’d still be able to go? I certainly wouldn’t ”

    Other possible angles – you were still expecting to go and did not realize that you would be advised that you shouldn’t/haven’t progressed as quickly as might have been hoped, so this is your earliest possible notification.

    1. animaniactoo

      Whoops. I posted before finishing editing. I thought better of the line I was starting to add there “I certainly..”, but didn’t manage to finish deleting it.

      1. Amber T

        I’d agree if OP was still at work and on pain pills, but when you’re home on FMLA (and clearly in pain!), I don’t see a reason not to mention it.

    2. Anna

      I like this, but I also think Alison’s point of it being a GIFT is really important here. If it’s a gift given in good faith and with the idea of boosting employee moral, this is the exact opposite of both those things.

      1. animaniactoo

        Oh, I absolutely agree with that, I’m simply discussing the RSVP/Notification issue of it. If it is that important to them, why would you expect and hold an employee who is loopy and in pain more accountable than an HR dept that had all their brainpower functioning? Push back on the gift aspect but there’s a whole nother level of crazy here and I think it may be worth digging into that – particularly if they don’t accept the “gift” logic.

        1. Sadsack

          Eh, I don’t think, “You should have known,” is a great defense in this case.

          1. Sadsack

            Sorry, cut myself off…I think the fact that this was meant to be a gift and OP will not/cannot pay them back for it is the stance to take. Telling them they should have known it or should have asked isn’t going to really help if these people are unreasonable as it is.

  2. Former Retail Manager

    I am by no means a cruising veteran, heck I’ve never been on one (but soooo want to) but I wonder, worst case scenario, if the company has prepaid for x number of passengers, can someone else potentially go in your place? Maybe the person who has covered for you or assisted with your duties while you’ve been out, if they’re not already going, or maybe a lower level employee that has really gone above and beyond this year may want to go. I just can’t imagine that the company can’t find a single other person to fill the now empty slot.

    Best of luck with a speedy recovery!

    1. Ashley the Paralegal

      Agreed. I used to work for a large company that got last minute tickets to the Olympics in China. They sent out an email asking for anyone who already had a passport and was able to make the dates work for them to let them know. Then they filtered out anyone below a certain performance metric and raffled off the tickets to 4 different employees that qualified. Plus, they each got to bring a guest. It was pretty cool of them and no tickets got wasted.

    2. Countess Boochie Flagrante

      Most cruises are really flexible about things like that — I can say from my experience with them that they tend to be super customer service oriented.

    3. Christopher Tracy

      That would be the rational and reasonable thing to do, Former Retail Manager, but we know that some employers don’t understand what that means.

    4. Laura

      Great suggestion. I’m sure there are employees who missed the initial sign-up who would still like to go.

    5. Stranger than fiction

      Yeah and I assume the company bought blocks of cabins with more than one person to a room. It’s probably the airfare they’d be taking most the hit for. But still, they should have asked for everyone’s final rsvp or something before the deadline was up to cancel and someone should have been thinking about employees out on sick leave or with injuries. Either way, don’t charge the employee.

      1. RL

        I’m totally relying on memory and/or assuming here, but cruise lines probably have fees for changing names on tickets (they have to give names of everyone on board for security reasons; I don’t think you can buy a ticket a certain number of days before sailing because the line has to submit a passenger list to port security or whoever). Refunds probably have conditions attached, and no longer an option after a certain date. There may be penalties charged for no-shows, as airlines do. Along with any other number of fees the cruise line feels like charging.

        I could be wrong about any of those things, but it’s the only way I can make logic out of the company’s demand for payment. The company might be out of pocket for the OP not being able to go; my guess is they’ll be charged for either a name change or a no-show, whereas if the OP went, they’d only be out the cost of the ticket.

        That said, this is a complete jerk move because the understanding was that the ticket was a gift, and they should have thought of contingencies like the OP’s before, like travel insurance, especially if it is a large group going.

        (… although reading through what I just wrote, if there is such a thing as a fee for a no-show, they’d still be out that, even if the OP payed the ticket… gah, who knows)

  3. Ultraviolet

    That’s totally ridiculous. One question: which person at your company have you been talking to about this? Have you tried taking it over their head? If it’s someone at HR, can you talk to their boss about it? Have you talked to your own manager about it? If not, maybe they could help; if so, and they weren’t helpful, maybe HR would be? (I’m saying HR here because they’re the ones OP was told they should have notified earlier.)

    1. Meg Murry

      Yes, I also wondered if OP’s boss was in the loop. OP, does your boss know that HR (or whoever is coordinating the trip) is treating you this way? This is the kind of thing that really kills the morale of otherwise good employees, and if I were your boss I’d 100% want to know so I could go to bat for you, either with the HR person you’ve been communicating with or over that person’s head.

      Is it less than ideal that OP didn’t give them notice a month ago that she couldn’t go on the trip? Yes. Does that mean she should pay for it? No, stuff happens, and the company needs to learn to be prepared for that kind of eventuality.

    1. Mustache Cat

      Dude! Don’t jinx it. Every time we’ve said this, another worst boss appears, jerkier and more terrible.

      1. MaggiePi

        That is bad. I mean truly bad. But chemo-crashing boss may even top liver-demanding boss.

            1. Jadelyn

              That was part of the 2016 set?? I had mentally filed it under the 2015 group. Wow…the competition is even fiercer than I thought.

            2. Mallory Janis Ian

              Oh, yeah; I remember when I declared that one an early contender for worst boss of the year and even said that I couldn’t imagine one much worse. And another commenter said that before long, we’d get another letter that would make that boss’s bad behavior seem quaint by comparison. Well, that day has arrived three times now (with liver donor boss, funeral-crasher boss, and chemo-crasher boss), and it’s only May.

                1. Tess McGill

                  +1. I can also help sell tickets. “We’ll sell you the whole seat, but you’ll only need the edge!”

        1. Wendy Darling

          I have a hard time choosing between them because they’re both so completely appalling and horrid but in slightly different ways! I lean slightly toward Chemo Crashing Boss because they are actually intentionally harassing the sick person, but then again Forced Liver Donation Boss has fired *multiple people* so there’s that.

          idk I can’t choose.

            1. Biff

              Maybe Allison will give us all TWO votes. Still, I’d be hard pressed to pick just two. I mean, on a scale of “Awful but unfortunately not uncommon” to “This is illegal, gross, immature, horrifying to all moral systems and ought to be in the news” we’ve had several that are well beyond the worst end of the scale.

            2. Dynamic Beige

              I think there should be divisions. Like a Company Owner division and a Manager division. Or maybe ranking by employee count or something like that?

              1. babblemouth

                We could split it in to “horrible yet legal” and “horrible and illegal”.

          1. SophieChotek

            I’ve been curious to know if Forced Liver Donation Boss was ever outed on the news. Seems like a good media fodder. We never got an update, did we?

            1. Amber T

              We have not. I’m really hoping we get one, though I’m not sure there could be any “good” or “happy” update there.

            2. Mephyle

              My dream outcome is that OP or some other person who is ineligible to donate goes for their tests and tells the staff, “I can’t donate because X, so don’t bother doing the tests on me. I’m only here because I’m going to be fired if I don’t go to this appointment. I know they mean it because a couple people already got fired when they presented doctor’s notes corroborating that they were ineligible to donate.”
              The staff member realizes that this goes contrary to the willingness and consent model and starts it up the chain. Some high-ranking person in the organ donor system sorts the boss’s knowledge about organ donor consent.
              And OP and the people who had already been fired get unemployment and better jobs.

              1. A Non

                I’d love for the boss to get criminal charges for organ trafficking. Dunno if the law covers extorting people for their organs. But it would be awesome if it did.

          2. NJ Anon

            I’d love to be a fly on the wall at the unemployment office when the employees told them they were fired for refusal to donate liver.

      2. Creag an Tuire

        I dunno, was “Boss Who Interrupted His Employee’s Niece’s Funeral to Ask Where the TPS Report Was Filed” this year? That sounded like a script of The Office that was rejected because “Sure Michael Scott would be that stupid, but we don’t want him to completely lose the audience’s sympathy.”

        1. West Coast Reader

          Do you have the link to the funeral one? I must have missed it and can’t find it via search or under the ‘jerks’ category. Thanks!

          1. NK

            It was actually in the comments section of one of the Friday open threads. I don’t have time to look now, but I believe it was in the last 4-6 weeks.

            1. PABJ

              Can we just create a Worst Boss Lifetime Achievement Award for the bosses who are so horrible that they would throw off the voting?

            2. Melissa

              Holy Moly! I missed that originally so I used your link to read it. I can NOT believe the chutzpah of that glassbowl. I hope karma gives him everything he deserves for that awful act.

            3. Raging Dragon

              Holy Christ that is epic bad- the guy interrupted the reverend speaking at the funeral!!!

  4. Cambridge Comma

    OP, did they inform you of this condition when you booked, and did you agree to any terms and conditions? If not, that’s another aspect of it that seems shady.
    At what level is the decision being made? I wondered if it was maybe someone more junior misapplying a rule aimed at people who drop out for no reason. Perhaps if you go up a level, you’ll find someone with some common sense.
    If they don’t want to waste the space, surely there is someone in the office who maybe didn’t sign up but would like to go, or someone who has recently joined the company.

  5. Monique

    If you want to play hard ball, I don’t see how they could make you pay. It would be illegal to withhold your salary, and they have no contract with you stating you agreed to pay for the cruise at any point.

    Of course, playing it hard ball would likely sour the working relationship, but there’s no way they could actually make you pay that I can see. Perhaps you could play it slightly differently, “I don’t have that kind of money, which is why I was so excited to sign up in the first place – it’s not something I could normally do. I wish I could go, and I’m really bummed to have to miss out over this health issue. I hope you’ll understand that I’m not able to pay for the cruise now that I’m unable to go.”

    I hope you recover soon! It’s so hard for me to understand why your company would want to penalise you for being suffering the misfortune of not being able to go to something fun over a health issue. Especially since it presumably makes no difference to the company whether you go – they paid for your spot, whether you get to enjoy it doesn’t change what their purchase ledger looks like at the end of the month.

    1. Colette

      Playing hardball could impact the OP’s job, so she’d need to consider that.

      But yeah, I wouldn’t pay this, and if they insisted, I’d be seriously job hunting.

      1. Jerry Vandesic

        If you have to pay for your spot, ask about selling that spot to someone else and then list it on Craigslist.

    2. tabureze

      If they do want to play hardball, then, what’s to stop you from selling your ticket to someone on Craig’s list?

      1. Amber T

        OP, I’m offering to purchase it from you at full price and bug anyone you want me to (boss, HR, etc.) if you’re anywhere near me. I’ll promise I’ll leave your nice coworkers alone.

            1. Mallory Janis Ian

              OP could hire an actor from the regional theater, like Sheldon Cooper did when he suddenly found himself in need of a “drug-addled Cousin Leopold”. Give the actor their motivation and their targets, and let them annoy the fire out of them.

  6. Stephanie

    Could you offer to find a replacement? It also seems weird they don’t have some sort of insurance policy (or some other company policy) that would cover this. I’d imagine if some business emergency came up that they needed you at work for, they’d find a way for you to be at work.

    1. BadPlanning

      I am also baffled that the company wouldn’t have had some travel insurance associated with this trip. Anyone could get seriously sick and not be able to go. Or have a death in the family. Or have a business need that meant they had to stay in town or travel elsewhere.

      1. A Non

        Yeah, I was thinking that too. They’re going out of their way to be jerks about something that was supposed to be a morale builder.

      2. Ama

        The last time my org wrangled travel for an offsite meeting, we had all three of these happen!

      3. Dynamic Beige

        Or give birth early. Or what happened to me on one job I was on, the stakeholder was attacked and nearly killed in a foreign country. No joke. They cancelled the whole thing and forfeited all kinds of deposit money.

    2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)

      And even if they don’t, what’s their worst-case scenario: they pay for the cruise… which is the same outcome they would have had if the LW was well enough to go. Oh well!

      1. fposte

        That’s the part that perplexes me. Can you imagine this in personal gift-giving? “You never used that gift certificate to Olive Garden, so now you owe me the money.”

        1. TootsNYC

          well, in Real Life, there’s the “you RSVP’d yes to my wedding but didn’t show up, so I’m going to bill you for the food.” That’s happened–and it’s always decired as incredibly rude.

          I can understand the frustration of those wedding hosts, and part of the problem is the extreme disregard for the feelings of someone who’s invited you (bcs hospitality / an nnvitation is a gift). But the biggest problem is that they just never said anything.

          i get that the OP is receiving a gift, but…

          She didn’t tell them earlier, but she’s telling them now, and SURELY there’s time to come up w/ a B-list person. It’s even easier for them than for a wedding host–they can just go find some employee that they want to reward, and give them the ticket. Or, at the worst, give the ticket to someone’s spouse (have a raffle for it, or something).

    3. Artemesia

      Most large companies self insure – they even self insure for theft and health insurance in many cases. I discovered this the hard way when a department I managed had major thefts of computer equipment. We were ‘self insured’ i.e. not insured and so had to limp along and figure out how to replace the equipment slowly from our budget (which of course had no money for this without trashing something important) and make due with discards from elsewhere in the organization that had been discarded for a reason. I would be surprised if they paid for travel insurance which is hideously expensive in and of itself for this sort of thing.

    4. Elizabeth West

      Yeah, I find it hard to believe they don’t have travel insurance. Or can’t find another employee to go. I think the HR is just being dicks about it.

      1. neverjaunty

        Agree. There can be plenty of situations where an employee has a genuine emergency before the trip but after the refund period – has it truly never occurred to this employer that they would be out the money then, too?

  7. LawCat

    I see that this is from the “The floggings shall continue until morale improves!” school of management.

    1. Rana

      Yup. “We are doing Something Nice for you! How dare you imply that it is not actually nice! Or that we are inconsiderate people! Obviously there is something wrong with YOU!”

  8. YourUnfriendlyPhlebotomist

    I cant figure out why the company wants the OP to pay them back.
    they aren’t loosing any additional money, they paid for the trip, its not a business trip so its not like she’s missing a conference that would have helped her work.
    If she cant work because everyone is on this trip and requests vacation time pay, again that’s fine because she wouldn’t have been working on the cruse.
    Are they also going to be requesting money from the staff who didn’t enjoy themselves on the cruse? what about those who get sea sick unexpectedly and miss dinner; will they have to pay for the cost of the inclusive dinner?

    1. mazzy

      That’s what I was going to say. More expense is not incurred by one’s not going. It doesn’t really matter if you go or not, they money has been spent…

    2. Daisy Steiner

      I guess it’s a similar mindset to those who bill wedding guests for their meal if they drop out at the last minute. While I would NEVER do that, I can (I guess) understand the thought process (though I don’t agree with it): “I thought this money was going to pay for a gift/hospitality for this person. Now it is just wasted money – and it’s all their fault. I don’t feel so generous any more and would like the money back.”

      Perhaps they’re hoping this policy will make people less cavalier about cancelling – which would have the benefit of reducing money wasted on no-shows.

      1. MaggiePi

        While I would not ever actually send a bill, I was very annoyed at the people who ordered steak dinner at our reception and then didn’t show up, when they knew in advance (but after the RSVP) that they wouldn’t be able to come. It was just a waste of food and money.
        The people who had car trouble day of and couldn’t make it, no annoyance, no problem. I get that things happen.

        1. Daisy Steiner

          Yes, it’s very frustrating. And while I’m happy to buy something for someone, buying it then having it go to waste is not so gratifying – particularly if it was within their power to prevent that. But I still wouldn’t actually send them the bill.

          I could understand the company saying “Look, if you’d told us about this at X time we could have got $Y back but now we can’t. Just something to think about for next time.”, but actually sending a bill? No way.

        2. Artemesia

          We are so lucky in our friends and relatives. The MIL of one of my BILs died Thursday morning before my daughter’s Saturday wedding and they called us immediately. Our catering deadline was noon Thursday so we saved 5 plate costs. We only had two no shows — local flaky friends of my husband — our of 150 guests.

        3. neverjaunty

          Well sure, but there’s a difference between being annoyed at flaky friends, and billing them.

    3. Karo

      Still don’t think what the company is doing is valid, but there may actually be meetings while on the cruise. Last one I went on had a room reserved for company meetings – I don’t know how often they met or how long the meetings were, but it was there.

    4. Moral panic

      This is only a punishment thing and is usually only done to punish those who never wanted to go and just let the company waste money. We had a rule with staff parties, they buy our plate but we need to pay them back if we suddenly pull out… but even then they never made an example put of anyone.

      For bigger events they collected a 50% deposit from anyone going and you got it back when we went to the event, bit again even people who canceled got their money back.

      1. Cambridge Comma

        Yes, I once organized a free ski trip for staff, and no shows had to either pay the cost, send another colleague in their spot or provide a doctor’s note. (Although I didn’t follow up and actually request a doctor’s note.) This was because of high numbers of no shows in the past who had wasted spots that others would have been glad to have.

    5. Sitting Duck

      This is what I was thinking – why does the company need to be paid back – if she was going they would pay, she’s not going, so its going to cost them the same as if she were…..bascially this is a penalty for not going on the cruise. If she had opted not to go at all would they have asked her to pay for it still? Ridiculous!

      OP – can you bring this up to them somehow? Inquire why you have to pay since they were willing to pay for your trip, but now you can’t go, but its not costing them additional money because you can’t go, its still the same price as if you were going!

    6. Ted Mosby

      Yes, this is what is making me so angry. It makes total sense to have a policy about canceling that discourages people from signing up and then not going because they don’t feel like it/would rather take the vacation time away from coworkers, so they’re not paying for 40 tickets and using 30. But this kind of rule is worse than useless when reasonable exceptions aren’t made. This would certainly discourage me from going on the trip in the future. It’s not like there’s any question as to if she’s being truthful. What do they think they’re gaining out of this? (Aside from $$ I would assume is fairly negligible for them if they’re taking everyone on a free cruise.)

      1. The Cosmic Avenger

        I am a Troubleshooter! I find the trouble…and I shoot it!

        BEST. GAME. EVER.

  9. Naomi

    Maybe this is just a quirk of OP’s phrasing, but what strikes me as really ridiculous is that it sounds like the company is doing this not because they want a refund, but to pressure OP to go on the cruise, medical advice be damned. Anyone else get that impression?

    1. MaggiePi

      Yes. Makes me worry they have all kinds of “team building” aspirations for this cruise. Maybe even some surprise “group activities”

      1. Timssphere

        This made me think of:

        “Landmark Education, a for-profit “employee-owned” private company, took in $89 million last year offering leadership and development seminars (and cruises, and dating services, and courses for kids and teens).”

        /cynic

    2. Rana

      Yes. It’s like they’re offended that the OP isn’t properly appreciating their gift, like someone being annoyed that the sweater they spent hours knitting isn’t being worn daily by the recipient even though it’s 80 degrees outside.

  10. CM

    I hope you continue to stand up for yourself, OP, because your company is being ridiculous. Reminds me of “clean your plate” arguments I had with my parents when I was a little kid; if cleaning my plate is going to make me barf, who is it really helping? Is there a chance that you could talk to somebody else about this issue who might have authority and be more sympathetic? I’m guessing you’ve already talked to HR and your own boss, maybe a higher-up person or somebody who you have a good personal relationship with who has influence over HR?

    1. I'm a Little Teapot

      Yeah, the “children are starving in $place!” crap never made much sense to me. How would my eating something I don’t want help them?

      (Fortunately, my parents were never big on forcing me to eat.)

      1. Creag an Tuire

        My parents always used the “I guess if you’re full, you don’t have room for cookies” argument. Much more effective.

        1. Elizabeth West

          We had “three more bites and then you’re done,” usually used on something we didn’t like. I made “Try it before you turn your nose up at it” for a bf’s little girl, but it backfired on me after I then had to eat a spaghetti sandwich (gross!).

          1. many bells down

            For my kids, I would divide the food on the plate into two clearly unequal portions, and then ask them which one they wanted to eat. This usually works like a charm, because they pick the smaller one and think they’ve won. Bonus move: make sure there’s more green beans or whatever is the least-favorite food in the obviously-smaller portion.

        2. Tess McGill

          To which my son invented the “I have a separate tank for dessert” argument.

      2. babblemouth

        I remember very honestly offering to have the rest of my food sent to children Somalia if they thought it would make a difference – they wanted food, I didn’t, that struck 6-years-old me as a win-win solution.

    2. Chinook

      “Reminds me of “clean your plate” arguments I had with my parents when I was a little kid; if cleaning my plate is going to make me barf, who is it really helping?”

      The “starving children in India” argument left my extended family’s vocabulary after we hosted an Indian exchange student. My 8 year old brother innocently asked if his parent made him feel guilty about starving children in Canada when he didn’t clean his plate (because we all recognize a guilt trip when we saw it)

  11. AnotherAlison

    While I agree the OP shouldn’t even be ASKED to pay for the trip, I think the company does have a point that she should have told them sooner.* Pre-surgery, the doctor should have told her how long she would be limited in mobility. If she had told the company she couldn’t make the trip before she left for surgery, they may have had more options on getting refunds or substitutes.

    *The only caveat to this is if the OP thought she was going in for “X” and then when the surgeon got in there, it changed to “Y” with a much longer recovery schedule than originally expected.

    1. BadPlanning

      Sure, but then I could argue that it was clear that the OP was out (and in the office) with a pretty serious health issue and they could have double checked that the OP could still come on the trip and/or need any new special accommodations — like an accessible room on the cruise ship if the OP was still using the scooter.

      1. Engineer Girl

        I agree. The company knew she was out and failed to follow up on it. Many medications make you groggy, forgetful, loopy. OP may have been on pain medicine prior to surgery too. In short, the company failed to provide due diligence too. It isn’t all on the OP.
        The big issue is that the company hasn’t lost any money as a result of her not going. They can’t even legally claim damages because they haven’t lost anything. If this were a working cruise, yes. But it was a reward cruise.

    2. A Non

      Ideally, yeah. But it’s really easy to let stuff slip when you’re dealing with major medical issues. And there’s zero reason for the company to be a jerk about this regardless of how little notice she could give them.

    3. Karo

      A lot of people have unrealistic expectations on how long it’ll take them to recover or how easy it’ll be. You hear “Most people take 6 weeks to recover” and translate that to “But I’m not most people – I’m so healthy that it should only take 4 weeks.” Or “You’ll be on crutches for x days” and you think “Okay, I can handle that, no big deal” until you spend the time on the crutches (or on the knee scooter, or whatever), and you start realizing how limited your mobility is.

      All that side, there are a bunch of caveats aside from the one you listed. Physical therapy going slowly, additional complications from the surgery, accidentally falling over and screwing it all up, etc. It would’ve been great if the OP could’ve given them a heads up, but things happen that no one can account for.

      1. Persephone Mulberry

        Amen. Or the doctor tells you “Most people take 6 weeks to recover” and you just…don’t. I broke my ankle a few years back and was told I would be in a hard cast for 8 weeks and a walking boot for 4. Week 8 came, I was so excited to get that damn cast off, and the X-rays showed that I wasn’t ready yet. I ended up stuck with that hard cast for another 4 weeks (and somehow no walking boot at all).

        1. OfficePrincess

          Exactly. When I fell last year, my initial recovery was quoted as 10 days -2 weeks, just take it easy. Except that we later found out that it was actually more extensive than the doctor originally assumed (this time the hoofbeats really were zebras) and I shouldn’t have been bearing weight at all, so it got worse before it got better and I spent 3 months in physical therapy.

      2. Creag an Tuire

        In my experience, it’s usually the doctor that’s overly optimistic — they’ll tell you, “oh, most people are back to normal within 4 days,” and when 4 days pass and you’re still unable to get around without pain pills, you hear “oh, don’t worry, 25% of patients have this complication that means you’ll need another week”. It’s like, I get that you don’t want to talk me out of a needed procedure, but I’m an adult and would’ve liked to have planned for the realistic worst-case scenario.

        1. Elizabeth West

          This is what they told me at Urgent Care in January when I fell at skate practice and sustained a tremendous whiplash–but I’m STILL having issues from time to time. My own doctor was more reasonable and said it could take several months. I kind of wish they’d told me that!

          Trying to plan around a work event when they’re so unreasonably optimistic is difficult at best. It’s easy to cancel most social obligations for a medical issue, but it seems like many companies don’t care if you practically have a bone or an organ hanging out–they’re like, Just get here.

        2. blackcat

          When I had a really bad burn, I was stunned when the doctor told me that I would continue to be in excruciating pain for “At least two weeks, probably four, maybe six but it if persists that long come back.* Oh, and some pain could persist for a year or more.”

          I was so upset! I couldn’t use my right hand! She was telling me that it would be that way for weeks! And possibly some pain for A YEAR!! But, you know, when it was still hurting after 2 weeks, I was glad I knew what to expect. I could easily seeing a doctor saying something like “Your pain may subside in 2 weeks” because that’s what the patient wants to hear.

          *This is apparently what I get for being a wilderness first responder. I showed up with a well-dressed/well-treated burn, and so no follow up care was scheduled. Though I had sufficient medical training to know what to do, I did not know how much pain I was in for. Nor was I prepared for the psychological distress if exactly how disgusting my wound was. Protip: do not get a flashlight to more closely inspect *a hole* in your flesh. If it is not red at the edges, it is not infected. The better view will only lead to nightmares.

          1. Amy Farrah Fowler

            So true. I had jaw surgery in high school and they had to detach the nerve. It took months for reeling to come back in my lower lip and YEARS for it to not be constantly tingly… healing can be a very long term thing.

    4. SusanIvanova

      I broke my ankle last year on a weekend. Both before and after surgery I was on pain meds and, like the LW, would have been too fuzzy to think about anything that was more than a month away. Sudden injuries sneak up on you that way.

    5. Colette

      I broke my ankle 4 weeks ago and I have no idea how long I’ll be in a cast (and I also underestimated how frustrating my current mobility limitations are.) I know when my next appointment is, but I don’t know when I will be able to walk again, let alone walk without a cast on.

      1. Oryx

        Right there with ya on the broken ankle — the limited mobility is by far the most frustrating thing. I know what I was quoted for recovery, but I feel like I won’t know for sure until my one week check up on Wednesday (and even that could change as the weeks go on).

      2. SusanIvanova

        I found that the software saying that “the last 10% takes 90% of the time” applies to recovery too – 6 months after my broken ankle I was at about 90%, but it’s 6 months beyond that and it’s still a bit shy of the flexibility of the other one.

        1. KS girl at heart

          I’m finding also that due to advancing age (almost 40 cough cough) I don’t heal as fast as I once did. I stress fractured my foot in January and was on crutches then a boot for 9 weeks and I’m still not 100% 4 months later. I’m being told that this may take up to a year to be pain free. No way would I have anticipated that in the first few weeks of the injury.

    6. Ted Mosby

      I agree this is more her responsibility, but I feel like she’s not owning up to that fully bc the punishment is so out of line. If her boss had been like “Ted! I wish you had told us sooner,” and sighed, that would be appropriate, and I wouldn’t be sympathetic if she got very upset.

      But this is like “you forgot to feed the dog last night, so as a punishment we are now going to feed you to the dog.” Sure there was a misstep but this is not the appropriate reaction guys!!

      1. Creag an Tuire

        You forgot to feed the dog last night, so as a punishment we are now going to feed you to the dog.

        To be fair, my cat does have a policy of “you didn’t feed me on time, I will now nibble on your fingers”, but I already knew she was an awful boss.

        1. OlympiasEpiriot

          Cats are not known for their empathy.

          That’s why Evil HR in Dilbert is Catbert.

        2. KR

          +1 Same here. My cat has bloodwork coming up and she has to skip breakfast. She might eat the vet if she doesn’t eat me before I can drive her there.

    7. Observer

      If you noticed, this was pretty much emergency surgery and the OP spent most of the time initially on pain meds. Expecting a cruise to be top of mind for her is simply ridiculous. I totally agree with the commenter who suggested she ask why no one brought it up with her, if the “deadline” was so tight.

      1. TootsNYC

        If i were the OP’s manager, this is the kind of thing that I would expect to be responsible for.

  12. Hannah Kilcoyne

    This is like a bridezilla demanding that you pay for your meal at a wedding if you had to cancel your RSVP. get it, they’re out the money now and you’re not going, so you made them “waste” money in a way. But they were going to be paying for it either way, now you just won’t be there. Emergencies happen!

    If the employees were supposed to pay for the cruise, and you were trying to get out of paying since you can’t go, there might at least be a question here. But they have clearly lost sight of the fact that this is a free cruise! It’s unfortunate that they spent the money, but asking you to pay when you’re not going makes no sense.

  13. Anonathon

    A) This is completely crummy. B) This trip is a sunk cost. They already had incurred the cost of your ticket and assumed they weren’t getting it back, so whether you actually go or not should be irrelevant. In fact, if you stay at the office and work instead, they’re getting a good deal (output that they didn’t anticipate). So in a nutshell, they are obnoxious and bad at math.

  14. Not Karen

    Why can’t they find someone else to go in your place? Seems like a pretty easy solution to me. “Free cruise – who wants it??”

    1. Artemesia

      I’ll bet there are a whole class of people at work that don’t get invited; if so, draw straws for one of the admins or other worker who didn’t have the option. The money is spent either way so making the OP pay it back makes no sense.

  15. BBBizAnalyst

    This type of stuff annoys me. Reminds me of when I worked at awful last job. Their idea of a holiday morale booster was to book a bowling venue an hour outside of the city and make everyone pay for their own games, food and drink. But hey, we got to leave the office at 4:45pm instead of 5pm.

    1. (different) Rebecca

      That’s totally ridiculous. What happens if you can’t bowl? Like, not ‘bad’ at bowling, but like physically can’t? *sigh* Some companies…

      1. AnonToday

        This is so, so common in my workplace. Everyone on the team that plans these events is under 25, single, and able-bodied, so there’s never any thought put into whether or not our “mandatory fun” activities are convenient or feasible for people who aren’t also all three of those things.

        1. esra

          Oh hey, I see we work at the same place. I mentioned that our benefits and morale builders are all basically for healthy, 20-odds, and that if we wanted a more diverse and experienced work force, we might want to consider that. Ne’er before has such shade been thrown my way.

        1. BBBizAnalyst

          Several of us ended up not going and were promptly berated. Sorry, not sorry. Glad I am out of there.

  16. AnonasaurusRed

    I feel like if the OP was in the hospital, in a coma, or getting treatment for cancer, they wouldn’t be saying this. I wonder if there it’s because OP is back at work, even on a limited basis, and they feel like a broken leg is “no big deal” even though it really IS.

    For people asking what money the company is out, a lot of cruises, especially for large groups, have to be booked 6+ months in advance. The most popular cruise lines have cancellation policies where you only get your full refund if you cancel 90+ or 60+ days in advance (varies by line but those are for Royal Caribbean and Carnival respectively). If it’s within 89 to maybe 60 days you get everything back but your deposit. After that it’s a tier of 75% 50% and then nothing. So if the company did book based on who said they would go, it’s entirely probable they are out some money if OP doesn’t go. That said, if the company does this every year they damn well better have travel insurance. Both to cover the cost if things like this happen and to help cover the company in case someone gets hurt while on the trip. In no case should the company transfer this burden onto their employees when something like what OP is dealing with makes it so someone can’t go.

    1. Key to the West

      The argument about the money is that if OP goes it’s costing them X for her to go. If she doesn’t go it is still costing X (assuming no refund) so technically they aren’t losing money.

      1. AnonasaurusRed

        I agree. But sadly a lot of managers and companies don’t see it that way, even though they are wrong.

      1. AnonasaurusRed

        I agree. I was saying that now, since she is back at work, they may see it as not being serious anymore. Even though it very much IS.

    2. stevenz

      I would think the cruise company would have a stake in this, being willing to refund the price of one ticket for a major customer. (I don’t know how many are going – 10? 100?) Furthermore, have they always had 100% uptake with these events? There is always bound to be *somebody* who can’t make it; the range of good reasons is endless. If they have booked their trips six months in advance, is nobody allowed to resign/have a baby/die in the next six months? I just can’t believe it has to be so rigid.

  17. EA

    Wow.

    I have nothing to add, except a company cruise sounds like fresh hell to me. Trapped on a boat, with your coworkers and boss.

    1. Pwyll

      100% this. You couldn’t catch me dead on a cruise with coworkers (even though I happen to like them).

    2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)

      Eh, it’s a really big boat.

      I know there are lots of people who loathe these kinds of company-sponsored “fun” activities, but a cruise has got to be a fairly inoffensive one. Unless the company is organizing all sorts of mandatory meetings/activities, you could easily go a week without seeing anyone.

      1. Just Another Techie

        A cruise is the worst possible company “fun” activity because once the boat leaves, you are stuck there for however long. An amusement park or ball game or even a high ropes course with trust falls and whatnot, if I’m really miserable I can get in my car and go away. (There might be social consequences for me, but I have the option if my misery is bad enough.) I can’t just drive off a boat and go home.

        1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)

          I don’t mean to be pedantic, because this is really not the point of this thread, but my point was actually that you CAN get away on a cruise. It’s so massive — way bigger than if you were on a trip with your colleagues at a hotel or resort — that you could avoid seeing people pretty easily. (Of course, your company could require you to have meals together or whatever, but they could do that no matter where you were sleeping, be it on a boat, in a cabin, or at your house.)

          1. Cecily

            I think the issue is different definitons of “getting away.” Getting away to me would mean going home. On a cruise you are trapped on the boat – you can’t go home.

    3. ElectricTeapots

      Ditto, the company’s jerky response is the real issue here, but I can’t believe that they’ve never had serious problems arise from this free cruise gift tradition before– at best, issues with how to apply vacation days to a company sponsored/sanctioned trip or debates over whether families and spouses are allowed, and at worst, an on-board norovirus outbreak or drunken brawl or something. Being trapped in a small metal box seems like it might exacerbate that sort of thing in a way that regular business trips would not.

    4. Kyrielle

      I’m _hoping_ the phrase “I signed up” in OP’s letter means the cruise is optional. I would think a company that _offered_ a free cruise was awesome – even though I wouldn’t take it. I would think a company that _required_ it, barring medical reasons against, disturbing.

    5. DCGirl

      It could be worse. One of my colleagues had a crappy year, losing a bid client, compounded by health problems, and decided to take his family on a cruise to get away from it all for a while. He ended up on a boat where the competition was feting the sales team that took away the big client.

      1. Artemesia

        I hope he had a terrific sense of humor because that is the only way to deal with this kind of fresh hell. My uncle showed slides of my first wedding at a family reunion event where I was introducing my second husband to the family. Other family slides too but LOTS from my wedding. My mother was mortified; my husband and I found it hilarious.

    6. PollyQ

      I would agree with this for a multi-day cruise, but our team was once treated to a half-day harbor cruise (around Boston harbor) with lunch, and it was a lovely outing.

    7. AdAgencyChick

      Seriously, I didn’t even like boat parties like my old company used to have, where I was on the boat for like three hours. Multiple days? I’d throw myself off the side.

  18. Pwyll

    Depending on whether this is a well-known policy, and whether they’ve required other employees to repay the company for this trip if they didn’t attend in the past, this (could, possibly) be considered FMLA retaliation. Effectively, if no one else is being asked to pay this back, but you are just after taking FMLA leave, they could be penalizing you for a covered injury (and the absences).

    1. INFJ

      I was thinking the same thing. Nobody else is being asked to pay; even if retaliation wasn’t the employer’s motivation, it could fit into that category.

  19. Ms. Didymus

    I used to work in the travel industry. It would be unheard of for your company to not have travel insurance (or perhaps a policy in your name) that would cover exactly this sort of scenario. Perhaps they just have not thought of that (not that that should be your problem, of course) so maybe you can take that approach?

  20. Nico M

    Questions that spring to mind are:

    How many people are going?
    Is it a real cruise line?
    Is it a proper group booking thru the cruise lines group dept?

  21. INFJ

    So… people who are going don’t have to pay, but someone who isn’t does? This is so backwards I don’t even know where to start.

    I agree with Alison that if you start telling your coworkers about this, they WILL be angry for you, and they will start to wonder what kind of crap your employer may try to pull on them in the future.

  22. Sue Wilson

    If Alison’s advice doesn’t work, I would see if I had signed anything, and if not, or if the terms didn’t include anything like what happened, I would keep kindly reiterating “I can’t pay that sorry.” At that point the company would have to escalate that to court, and the kinder you say it, the more they look ridiculous.

  23. DCGirl

    Lost of good advice upstream.

    Best wishes for a speedy recovery. I had to use one of those knee scooters for a while last year, and they are not as easy to use as you would like to think that they are. When I had my ankle injury, I had a head injury as well (slipped down a flight of stairs and whacked my head on one of the steps when I landed). My boss made me dial in for conference calls while I was supposed to be lying flat in a dark room with a concussion.

  24. Engineer Girl

    A summation of some talking points:
    * Was this is gift/reward or not? If it was a gift/reward then company has no say in what happens to it. It is very clear that OP didn’t intentionally hurt herself to negate the gift.
    * Company should have purchased travel insurance for a trip of this size. This injury was not pre-existing so should be covered under company’s travel insurance. If company didn’t purchase insurance for a trip of this size then they were either able to absorb the costs or were negligent.
    * OP was out on FMLA, which means company clearly knew of employee’s medical condition. HR has to sign off on the FMLA paperwork. They absolutely knew it was limiting her ability to work (no full days) so clearly it also limited her ability to travel. Why didn’t company follow up? In short HR was notified. Very, very officially notified.
    * It was a gift (not a working meeting) so there were no financial losses due to OP not going. The company suffered no damages – as in $0. So the OP owes them $0.
    * As others mentioned, it could be considered FMLA retaliation as this was an FMLA injury.

    1. ZenJen

      according to para 2 of the OP’s letter, it was a GIFT. now they company is asking for that GIFT to be paid back. Hell no–to me, it’s the same as giving a bottle of wine to someone who doesn’t drink. The gift is given, but the recipient doesn’t partake of the gift. Lame, but it happens.

      1. J.B.

        Maybe more like pouring the bottle of wine down the throat of the person who doesn’t drink. Sheesh!

      2. Loose Seal

        Someone once gave out homemade loaves of banana bread to co-workers at Xmas. I had only just accepted mine when he snatched it back and said, “Oh you can’t have gluten, right?” Which is true. But I was very taken aback.

  25. AF

    This is so terrible. The travel insurance point is really important – did they not get insurance for everyone? Or are employees on the hook for that? (And either way, are employees aware of the insurance situation?)

  26. AF

    And best wishes for a speedy recovery, OP! Please keep us updated if you’re able to.

  27. Jason Incognito

    I’m not sure how the company could actually force the repayment. A coerced payroll deduction for this sort of thing would be illegal in many states (including mine). Do they seriously plan on suing to collect the money?

  28. Collarbone High

    Will the cruise operators even let OP on board? I would think in the event of an emergency, having a passenger with limited mobility would be a fiasco and possibly not allowed by their insurance. If it is allowed, that might be an angle that would work to make the company rethink this: “I wouldn’t be able to move quickly to evacuate in an emergency, and would slow down other people who would have to stop and help me.”

    (Regardless of the answer to this, OP has my sympathies. This is absurd.)

    1. animaniactoo

      Cruise operators will absolutely let somebody in a wheelchair onboard. Or someone who can only walk using a cane or a walker. There isn’t a handicap restriction. In fact, for some companies, it’s part of their pitch – you can have all sorts of fun in those one location where they’ve created all sorts of entertainment for you. Not that they’re catering to people who are physically disabled, but they are pushing that being disabled doesn’t mean you can’t come have fun here with us.

  29. Nicole

    The company is out this money whether the OP went on the trip or not, so why does it matter if they can’t go due to their injury? They now want to turn something that should have been nice for their employee into a financial burden which makes zero sense. Your company sucks, OP.

  30. Grey

    Plan to go on the trip but give them a lengthy request of reasonable accommodations. Maybe they’ll change their mind.

  31. Viktoria

    I would probably say something like, “I couldn’t have afforded to go on this cruise if it hadn’t been a gift from the company. I certainly can’t now afford to pay for a trip I won’t be taking. I simply don’t have the budget for it, so I won’t be able to pay.”

    It’s absurd. If it were due to a concern about people no-showing, the doctor’s note should more than suffice.

    I don’t know all the ins and outs of FMLA, but I wonder if it could be taken again to cover the week of the cruise, if it comes to that?

    1. CM

      Actually, that’s a great point — unless the OP signed something saying they would pay, they could simply say, “Sorry, I understood all along that the company was paying for this trip, and I will not be able to pay even though for medical reasons I can’t attend.” Might be more effective than asking them to change their minds. The company doesn’t really have a leg to stand on (sorry) if they’re making this demand without ever having mentioned it before.

  32. Employment Lawyer

    “I can’t think of a law that it would violate — other than the law of Be Reasonable. “
    I can!

    In my state of Mass., for example, this would be completely illegal for multiple reasons:

    -you can’t dock/subtract wages without an “established debt,” and this isn’t something you agreed to in advance;
    -you can’t generally penalize employees for medical issues–sure, they might not have to pay youl but that’s a whole different thing from penalizing you.

    Of course your state may vary. But the first one (“docking” your wages) is frequently illegal in other states.

    These folks sound like a**holes. Talk to a lawyer.

    1. Observer

      Alison, I know that you sometimes update your answer to clarify a point. Perhaps you could do so here, and even check with your legal advisers. I suspect that EL is correct – I’m fairly sure that this would be illegal in NY. It might even be illegal under Federal law. There are significant limits to docking an employee’s pay.

      1. Ask a Manager Post author

        The issue, though, is that as long as they don’t do it as a payroll deduction, I do think they’re allowed to require reimbursement. (Possibly not in California, which has stricter rules about business expenses — but I don’t even know if this would be considered a business expense; it’s at least in a grey area.) I could be wrong on this though — but it’s not clear enough to me yet for me to be comfortable changing the answer.

        1. Observer

          I’m fairly sure you are wrong. That’s why I suggested bringing this to your legal folks.

          There are a number of issues here, the two biggest being possible FMLA retaliation and that they almost certainly cannot require the OP to pay this back, even outside of a payroll deduction.

          This is from the DOL, regarding exempt employees: (bolding added)

          Accordingly, any employer policy that requires deductions from the salaries of its exempt employees to pay for the cost of lost or damaged tools or equipment issued to them would violate the salary basis requirement, thereby necessitating an evaluation under 29 C.F.R. § 541.603 to determine the effect of the improper deduction. It would not matter whether an employer implements such a policy by making periodic deductions from employee salaries, or by requiring employees to make out-of-pocket reimbursements from compensation already received. Either approach would result in employees not receiving their predetermined salaries when due on a “guaranteed” basis or “free and clear” and would produce impermissible reductions in compensation because of the quality of the work performed under the terms of the employer’s policies, contrary to 29 C.F.R. § 541.602(a).

          From the same document regarding non-exempt workers:
          With respect to nonexempt employees, an employer may not lawfully require an employee to pay for an expense of the employer’s business if doing so reduces the employee’s pay below any statutorily-required minimum wage or overtime premium that is due, because employers must pay all statutorily-required minimum wage and overtime premium finally and unconditionally, or “free and clear.” 29 C.F.R. § 531.35 (copy enclosed)1. For example, “tools of the trade” and other materials or equipment incidental to carrying on the employer’s business are considered business expenses of the employer that may not be transferred to employees if doing so cuts into their statutory minimum wage or overtime premium pay entitlements. 29 C.F.R. §§ 531.3(d), 531.32(c) (copies enclosed). Violations occur in two ways: (1) directly, when an employer deducts the cost of furnishing the employee with tools or equipment used in the employer’s business from an employee’s pay; or (2) indirectly, when the employee must incur out-of-pocket expenses to buy the item and the employer fails to reimburse the employee for the outlay. See 29 C.F.R. § 531.35; WH Opinion Letter February 16, 2001 (copy enclosed).

          1. Ask a Manager Post author

            I don’t think those apply here — this isn’t lost/damaged equipment or probably a business expense (and if it is a business expense, that rule is only in effect if it would bring the OP’s pay below minimum wage for that period).

            1. Observer

              If the OP is exempt, they can’t make go after her regardless of minimum wage. And, if they can’t go after things like broken equipment, it stands to reason they can’t go after her for this. Especially since the DOL does talk about what does constitute a reasonable cause to recoup money, and this doesn’t fall under any of those categories.

  33. Brett

    The company is out the money whether OP goes or not, so this really looks like nothing more than punishment.
    And that raises the question, punishment for what? Even if the company thinks this is “You are being punished for communicating poorly and not cancelling”, it still very easily looks like, “You are being punished for taking leave.”

    (Especially when the alleged poor communication happened while the OP was out on leave.)

  34. Chaordic One

    I find it kind of hard to imagine wanting to go on a cruise with the people I work with. They’re nice enough people, but I already spend a lot of time with them and I have friends and interests outside of work that I’d like to devote time to also.

  35. HR

    Are you in the U.S.? Are you an exempt (paid salary) employee? If so, the FLSA restricts when an employee can deduct from your pay…and reimbursement for a cruise is not on the list. There are also opinion letters from the DOL which indicate that requiring employees to write a check for reimbursements is also a no-no.

    If you are non-exempt (typically paid by the hour), check your state laws about deductions. Many states require prior authorized notification for deductions from pay.

      1. Observer

        Not necessarily. They would have to establish that they had a right to that money. So, for instance, if the OP had stolen money, they could require her to pay it back. In most cases, even if she damaged equipment or the like, they can’t require her to pay it back.

        In this case, she didn’t damage anything, it doesn’t look like she caused the company a loss, nor does it look like a clear violation of explicit and known company workplace rules. That’s the kind of thing they would have to prove in order to legally require her to pay it back.

      2. HR

        Nope. The DOL opinion letters address this scenario for exempt employees. The question related to not deducting from pay which is VERY strict but requiring payment by check. The DOL said … Nope.

        Observer is on the right track… The company would need to sue the employee and I just don’t see doing it for something like this.

        the problem is that MANY companies don’t know that it’s illegal. Things like relocation and education reimbursement are often deducted or paid back.

        1. Observer

          What’s more, there are DOL opinion letters where they say that making the employee pay it back is too close to a payroll deduction to be acceptable.

  36. TootsNYC

    What is our OP going to get in exchange for the money?

    Anything?

    Maybe if she was going to get a voucher to spend later, it would be reasonable.
    As it is, it’s just a penalty–and companies aren’t allowed to charge you for the expenses of doing business–even if they make a mistake that costs money!

    And a month ago, maybe the OP thought she’d be able to go!

  37. Mindy

    Cruise lines have wheelchairs available. Would this be a safer option for you? A handicapped accessible stateroom? Just thoughts.

  38. Melissa

    I think the OP would be better off not going. It’s hard enough staying upright in rough seas and negotiating narrow passageways with two good legs, much less one leg and a knee scooter. (This is from a co-worker who did it and regrets her choice.) Let’s just hope the company is struck by The Light of Sweet Reason/The Clue Bat and drops the whole repayment idea.

  39. Michelle

    The Justin Bieber concert made me literally laugh out loud. Everyone is staring. I don’t care. That was hilarious.
    “No, I’m going to skip the cruise and hand with the Bebs”.

Comments are closed.