open thread – March 6-7, 2020

by Alison Green on March 6, 2020

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer.

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  1. Anongineer*

    (Hopefully) last update!

    TL;DR background: Security guard at my company was following me to my car and saying creepy things about my appearance. Met with HR and she met with the building management to handle the situation last Friday.

    Last friday night, I was late leaving work and didn’t see anyone I could ask to walk out with me. As I was leaving the building, I saw the security car parked in our main parking aisle but couldn’t see who it was. Again, in a rush so I just hoped for the best and hurried to my car. *Mistake* He saw me and drove up to me again, where I slightly panicked as I didn’t know if they had talked to him or not so wasn’t sure if he was coming to confront me. They must not have, as he called me pretty redhead, and talked about how I had moved where I parked and how excited I must be for the weekend. I just said I was in a hurry and booked it to my car. Where I had a mini meltdown, because I hadn’t seen him in a week and didn’t realize how tense I was/how much it was stressing me out always scanning the parking lot looking for him, and the one night that I slightly let down my guard was the night he was there and followed me. 

    Reported that to HR, she said she’d address it with building management and make sure to follow up with me but to make sure that if I saw security to come grab her to walk me to my car. Then, yesterday got the – again, hopefully last! – update that they’d moved him to a different location and added this to his file. Which made me so so happy that I took a break just to let it sink in that I wouldn’t have to deal with this anymore. And then I sat in a conference room blasting the new Dixie Chicks song, “Gaslighter”, which made me feel more validated after some of the comments I got (in real life) about this situation. Like, yes it wasn’t a person stalking me planning to murder me but it was still weekly harassment.

    A huge thank you all for commenting and confirming that this wasn’t ok! It was a lot of stress to deal with coming in to work and not knowing if I’d have to deal with the security guard that night. Can’t wait to get back to regularly scheduled work problems!

    OG comment: https://www.askamanager.org/2020/02/open-thread-february-21-22-2020.html#comment-2866486First update: https://www.askamanager.org/2020/02/open-thread-february-28-29-2020.html#comment-2875796

    1. RabbitRabbit*

      Whew. Glad they seem to have seriously done something. You are right for feeling the way you do about this; it was not OK.

      1. Fikly*

        Making him someone else’s problem is not exactly what I’d call doing something. They’re just hoping no one reports him at new location.

        1. Goofy*

          Seriously. Let’s hope there are no redheads employed there. Hopefully this guy is on his last chance and will be fired *when* he does it again.

        2. designbot*

          I was worried about that too. I’m truly glad for Anongineer that she won’t be harassed anymore. At the same time I’m disappointed that the solution is to have him harass other people who don’t know he has a history of this and will start the whole process of “I’m uncomfortable but don’t know that it’s bad *enough* to take action” all over again. Sure they’re putting it in his file, but whatever woman he latches onto next is unlikely to have seen that. I feel like the job of security guard is particularly unsuitable for someone with this tendency and he should find a different type of work.

          1. RVA Cat*

            This. We saw how terribly moving the creeps around worked out for the Catholic Church….

        3. RabbitRabbit*

          As she noted, it’s a separate company that handles it. So it’s not like her own company can do much of anything.

          1. Mary Connell*

            They could refuse to work with the company. It’s important for a security company to take security concerns seriously.

    2. Kw10*

      Glad to hear you won’t have to deal with this again! Though it would have been nice if they actually, you know, disciplined him for sexual harassment instead of just punting the problem to the unfortunate people at the new location…

      1. Anongineer*

        I don’t know if he was disciplined or not, I just know that the security company moved him to a new location. Not ideal, but I’m hoping that he was and will change his behavior.

    3. Panthera uncia*

      I am very pleased for you, and also squealing to learn that there is new Dixie Chicks music ?!?!?

      1. Anongineer*

        There is! It’s such a good song! I had a couple of other crap interactions with males this past weekend and just blasted the Gaslighter plus their older songs to get me out of the red zone.

    4. Blueberry*

      We often think “it could have been worse” but it never should have been as bad to begin with. I’m really glad you said something and very relieved for you.

    5. MonteCristo*

      I’m really glad you don’t have to deal with this guy anymore.

      However, I’m really disappointed with your company that just moved him to another location. What if the women there doesn’t have your strength to get this reported? I feel like he just learned he wasn’t allowed to harass you, not that the entire behavior was wrong.

      1. One of the Spreadsheet Horde*

        This! He was horribly inappropriate and his comments were unnerving. Move the problem while hoping for the best? Ugh.

      2. Anongineer*

        So, my company rents space in a building from a management company. They’re the ones who hired the security firm after some robbery incidents in our parking lot. There were a lot of layers, but ultimately it was the security firm that moved him. I’m hoping they also disciplined him and made him see the light, but I honestly don’t know for sure.

        1. Bubbles*

          To be honest – I don’t mind that they didn’t terminate him. This guy knows where you work, where you park, what your typical schedule is. If he connects his termination to you, he may step up his actions toward you. Moving him to a different location to gain distance is a good first step. I’m sure they will talk to him further but give them the benefit of the doubt that they are thinking of your overall safety.

          1. Liane*

            I DO MIND this creep wasn’t fired and also reported to law enforcement. Officer Scumbag still knows where she works and when she is there. Please Anongineer, insist on having someone walk you out, even though he doesn’t work there any more.

      3. Katniss Evergreen*

        Yes to this. I’m happy for you OP and so glad you won’t have to see this person again. I wish the company employing this guy had done a more thorough job though and just fired his ass.

        If you ever do see this person again, he’s made a big leap to purposeful stalking, and you should for sure call the cops. Keep documentation of your conversations with HR about this. Good luck and be safe.

      4. Venus*

        Having read AAM for long enough, we should hopefully know that companies can’t comment on their disciplinary measures for employees. It is very possible that he was not only moved (for the OP’s benefit) but also disciplined, or given a severe warning about being fired. It is also possible that he wasn’t told anything. But we can’t know, and the lack of info should not be viewed as a problem, rather as how businesses should be expected to act for privacy reasons.

    6. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      I’m glad that they moved him but I’m enraged that this happened again after your first report. He shouldn’t have had the opportunity to do that to you again, we were all clapping for the security/building but turns out he was probably just on a different shift or vacation so they hadn’t gotten around to actually fixing the issue at all. YUCK.

      I wonder how many other women he makes uncomfortable with his inability to conduct himself in a professional way? You are not alone. You are not his only victim. They’re fools to keep this kind of person on staff. It’s pretty basic stuff to not act this way on the job, when you’re in a position of power like security is.

    7. Senor Montoya*

      Did they actually TALK to him, or just move him?? I can’t believe they didn’t follow up right after you met with them before!!!

    8. Anon bc work*

      What is it with creepy security guards? I’ve been hit on by security guards frequently enought that seeing one makes me feel even more insecure than if there wasn’t one to begin with.

    9. Potato*

      I’m so sorry that happened to you. Especially with security who’s supposed to make you feel more safe not less safe. I’m glad he’s out of your hair, and hopefully his company has disciplined him so he won’t try this again at his new job. I hope you’re feeling safer and less stressed going into and leaving work!

    10. Mina, The Company Prom Queen*

      I’m glad they addressed the issue and moved the creep. That must have been so scary and stressful for you. I hope you are able to feel better leaving work at night now!

    11. anonbenon*

      All I can say is they better keep a good eye on him because I’m certain you’re not the only one he does this to. He sounds like a repeat offender and predator and I’ve watched enough true crime shows to know that security guards make up a not small amount of people who have been found guilty of assaulting others. They’d be better to let him go altogether and tell him he can’t come back to the premises. Please continue to watch yourself as you walk out to your car and carry pepper spray or something with you. I’d say try and let someone know when you’re leaving and when you expect to be home and message them when you get there. I don’t play around with these kinds of things and I wouldn’t take any chances. But at least your work responded and hopefully this will be the last time he bothers you, but unfortunately I’m sure he’s out there bothering others. Yikes.

    12. I'm just here for the cats*

      Coming from someone who was in a similar situation as a teenager (started around 16) I am so happy for you. My situation I wasn’t working but studying at the library and a local guy would follow me around the library and a few times on the way home. He did this with some other girls as well (he was mentally ill) and was told by the librarians to leave us alone. Finally, my mom talked to his mom and it ended. Glad that HR pulled through for you. It doesn’t matter that he wasn’t threatening violence, he was going overboard and made you uncomfortable enough that you had a meltdown!

    13. Ms. Green Jeans*

      It’s not ok. I had a similar issue for years going on with a state trooper who was assigned to our building. He often met me at my car and made comments as I arrived, then would pressure me to shake his hand as I saw him throughout the day.

      I submitted an anonymous timeline complaint to HR, and they worked with the state entity to remove him from assignment at our building.

      Now, we have no security presence in the garage or our building, and it’s been about 6 months. I did not expect that unfortunate outcome, and had only asked that he receive training.

    16. Paquita*

      I am glad they move him to another location. So happy that we have good security in my building. I actually spent about 20 minutes talking to our guard on my way out today. (I only see him on Fridays, he works weekends.) During normal business hours they sit at the front desk, monitor the cameras, check in visitors and delivery people. After hours and all weekend there are two of them and they answer the phones and make regular rounds of the building and parking lots. They carry some kind of gadget that must be swiped (or something) at designated points to verify they have correctly covered the entire property.

    17. nep*

      Really happy for you, that you won’t have this weighing on you anymore. Absolutely unacceptable that you or anyone should be subject to this. Thanks for the update.

    18. Bex*

      I don’t want to be a negative Nancy, but I wanted to highlight this: “ Like, yes it wasn’t a person stalking me planning to murder me but it was still weekly harassment.”

      Unfortunately, and scarily, you actually don’t know what he was planning to do. We’ve all seen plenty of reports and news stories about a man who started off “just talking”, and when he decided his interests weren’t being returned, the next step was to assault the woman – sometimes leading to death.

      Please don’t minimize the danger that individuals who engage in his behavior (following someone, repeatedly engaging them tho they don’t want to be, etc) represent. I hate saying it, because it feels like I’m saying “you must always be on guard!” But… well, hell. We must always be on guard.

      1. Miranda Priestly's Assistant*

        Unfortunately, like a lot of women, it’s very possible the OP was probably trained to minimize their discomfort with harassment because it is not considered “real danger”. In my case, I’ve been laughed at by many guys for complaining about harassment because it is a “first world problem” and I should “be grateful that I don’t live in the Middle East or something”.

        Violaton of boundaries is violation of boundaries. And you really don’t know how many boundaries a guy is willing to violate before it’s too late.

  2. Peaches*

    I work in a customer service-related role at a company that sells several different hand sanitizers, hand sanitizer stands, N95 masks, disinfectant sprays, disinfectant wipes, etc. We. Are. Out. Of. Everything.

    Our company has 32 branches nationwide, and one corporate office where all of our chemicals are manufactured. Even our corporate office has been wiped of EVERYTHING. They are currently manufacturing more sanitizer, disinfectants, etc., but are limiting how much of everything that they are sending to each branch due to the high demand.

    It’s literal craziness, and as you can imagine, it has been the week from h-e-double hockey sticks for me. I’d like to change my phone greeting from “Good morning, Company Name, this is Peaches, how may I help you?” to “Hello, no, we do not have any more sanitizer. No, we do not have any more disinfectants. No, we do not have any more disinfectant wipes, no we do not have any more hand sanitizer stands. No, we do not have any more N95 masks. And, above all, NO, we CANNOT give you a firm ETA on when we will get more. Now, is there anything else I can help you with today?”

    Coronavirus has made my job a living nightmare, ya’ll!

    1. IT Guy*

      I feel ya. We just got our deliveries from Staples. I initially balked at it being back ordered for 10 days, but I wasn’t going to pick up the phone and complain about it. We did just get our delivery.

    2. RUKiddingMe*

      Ugh. I bet.

      Being in Seattle, ergo at the epicenter of this is scaring me.

      Fortunately I am already massively germaphobic so I have a survivalist’s amount of that kind of stuff already…”just in case.”

      Everyone thought I was nuts…for years. Well, “just in case” is here. ‍♀️

      2. Mimi Me*

        My husband and I were very poor growing up so we have this attitude about food that’s similar to squirrels: stock up! Every time there’s a sale we buy one or two extra of whatever it is, because the money is here today and might not be there tomorrow, you know? Anyway, we invested in a chest freezer a few years back and make a point to keep it and our pantry stocked. Our friends always chuckle at how we’re never out of food and joke about how we’re all set for end of days. Last night a friend mentioned that they’re recommending stocking up on about 2-3 weeks of staples in case you’re exposed and have to self-isolate. I have that…no worries! For a family of 4 no less. :) VINDICATION!

        1. Penny Parker*

          I live in the rural midwest. The past few winters haven’t been that bad but I’ve spent decades knowing to stock up in case we get a blizzard and get trapped. Or, a flood. A town nearby got trapped by a flood back in 2008 and it was a real mess to get any supplies to those folks there. My pantry bulges, and yes I have a six foot chest freezer which is mostly full.

          2. Lisa*

            This is so vindicating. I live in a large city within a few miles of multiple supermarkets and we see very little heavy snow, which is just about the only thing that can bring my neighborhood down. We don’t lose water. My neighborhood doesn’t flood or lose power.

            But as a kid I have lived in very remote communities, including a limited-acesss island. And my mother is originally from a community that is know for being extremely good at stocking up and general preparations. And we’ve been through a few phases of poverty.

            Since I’ve become an empty nester and divorced it has been so hard for me to break these habits. I still want to shop so that I can feed four or more people on a budget. So I still have a huge pantry and a deep freezer. I did cancel my Costco memebership and give away my spare fridge. But I could eat for months if I weren’t too picky. Vindication for sure!!

        3. Dream Jobbed*

          I’m usually pretty well stocked up on people food. But I am getting a month of pet food together. Not so easy when you have 5 large dogs and 5 cats, and not much non-basement storage. It’s tough for me to haul 28 lb bags up and down those narrow stairs – so my front coat closet has become pet food storage central.

          Been meaning to do this anyway since I just bought a house in the PNW, and have to prep for earthquakes and tsunamis.

        4. Ace in the Hole*

          I understand stocking up for emergencies like storms, earthquakes, etc. But I don’t understand what the goal is in stockpiling for coronavirus. If my household had to self-isolate, we’d just ask friends/family/neighbors to drop supplies on the porch and transfer the money electronically.

          2. Mily*

            The point is just to reduce contact points where you could contract or spread the disease. So if it gets bad in your city you won’t have to go to the grocery store and get breathed on/touched by a bunch of randos because you have twenty cans of beans you can eat. I do think it’s bizarre that people are stockpiling water because it’s not like anyone expects the water supply to be contaminated? Or water to stop running?

          3. Bubbles McPherson*

            If everyone is required to isolate, who’s going to drop things off or deliver orders? If store shelves are bare due to supply chain disruptions or if stores are closed because workers are being ordered home, where are your supplies coming from?

            1. Avasarala*

              This. What if you have to stay in your house and not go outside? What if people in crucial positions stop coming in to work or are short staffed due to the pandemic? What if there aren’t enough Amazon drivers to deliver your things to you?

          4. Gatomon*

            I don’t have anyone to come deliver things to me who isn’t high risk or otherwise just awkward (my boss? we don’t have that kind of relationship) and I live alone, so I definitely stocked up this week. Plus if I am ill the last thing I really want to do is try to dictate a grocery list to someone else. The panic-buying hasn’t hit my area yet, but I’m sure it’s only a matter of time until we get a local diagnosis. And there’s yet another cold circulating in the office.

            Even when I feel a regular cold coming on, I usually hit the grocery store to stock up so I can just hole up in bed for a few days.

    3. ThatGirl*

      The last company I worked for is a wholesaler for a huge variety of workplace supplies which of course included Jan/San, and I suspect they are facing similar problems. You have my sympathy.

    4. many bells down*

      We’ve got loads of those hand sanitizer wall dispensers (and refills), and I joked yesterday that we’re gonna see people who come in filling up hip flasks from them.

      1. Peaches*

        Honestly, that’s a sight that wouldn’t be out of the question with the way this thing is being talked about/spread!

      3. Mme Pince*

        One of the library groups I follow had reports of patrons coming in and filling their own jars and bottles from the communal ones or just walking off with the whole bottle!

        1. FirstDayBackHurts*

          I work on a college campus and the stand-up and wall-mounted hand sanitizer stations have started disappearing, sometimes leaving gaping holes in the drywall.

        2. Librarian1*

          I’m in a library group where someone said that the 67 oz. bottle of hand sanitizer was stolen of their reference desk!

        3. tink*

          We keep the hand sanitizer behind the desk and dispense it ourselves for basically this reason.

      4. JustaTech*

        Someone at my SO’s office came in with a duffel bag and helped themselves to a whole closet of stuff. HR saw them and asked security to have a word about how the work cleaning supplies are not for taking home. And that was *before* the stores were running low.

      5. Wired Wolf*

        I fielded a shipment of hand-sanitizer refills today (delivery guy left it in the grocery warehouse) and walked it over to facilities myself because otherwise it would disappear overnight. The overnight cleaning crew has sticky fingers and right now any sanitizer is like gold (I guard my personal bottle like it was the Holy Grail).

    6. Leslie Knope*

      So you’re gonna stand there, ownin’ a fireworks stand, and tell me you don’t have no whistlin’ bungholes, no spleen splitters, whisker biscuits, honkey lighters, hoosker doos, hoosker don’ts, cherry bombs, nipsy daisers, with or without the scooter stick…or one single whistling kitty-chaser??

      My favorite part of the movie classic, “Joe Dirt” (2001)

      I hope someday you can look back and laugh at the situation. While you’re still in it, just think back to the fireworks stand owner who only wanted to sell snakes and sparklers…and none of the good stuff. GOOD LUCK!

    7. Medical Nerd*

      So I’m a medical anthropologist who is collecting data on responses to COVID-19, and your experience with work is absolutely fascinating! The scale of the response we’re seeing to this pandemic is bloody enormous (a technical term, obviously) and the role you and your company play in that response is really interesting.

      I don’t meant to denigrate your experiences – it does sound truly hellish – but I have to thank you for sharing your experience because it’s made me realize that there’s a whole other sector of information about lived experiences with the threat of COVID-19. I wonder – does it help to know that work being harder for you makes it marginally easier for someone like me?

      Either way, I’m sending you calming vibes and hopes for understanding customers.

      1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

        Okay, so for the record, what YOU are doing is sounding absolutely fascinating to ME. (I desperately wish I could justify endless graduate research and a PhD in the history of medicine, but I can’t afford it and I don’t know what I would do with it, so for now I just keep reading and researching on my own.)

        1. Medical Nerd*

          Haha, thank you! Honestly, stuff like COVID was never at the top of my research list, but when life drops a prime opportunity in your lap, sometimes you just have to run with it. And lordy, do I ever know what you mean about wanting to just do “endless research”, especially research free from the tyrannies of funding.

          And I’m trying to keep a separation between my work, which fits around themes of “how do people understand and process the threat of COVID-19 in their own contexts?”, and my personal opinions about the levels of fear and misinformation we’re seeing, which is largely stuff like “OMFG EVERYONE PLEASE CALM YO’ TITTIES”. It’s an interesting line to walk.

          1. Third or Nothing!*

            Currently debating whether I should stock up on all the crap that’s selling out right now or wait to see if the hysteria dies down. Darn it people, I have food allergies and a toddler who is allergic to the flu shot (and it is still indeed flu season y’all). We really do need some of those things people are hoarding!!

            At least our office has plenty of supplies for us worker bees. It’s my personal stash that’s depleted due to said toddler dumping hand sanitizer all over the floor.

            P.S. My local grocery stores and big box stores are out of hand sanitizer, but Bath and Body Works still had a full supply. Thanks, B&BW for providing me a way to clean my hands when running water and soap aren’t available.

              1. Third or Nothing!*

                I did until I got a coupon in the mail. Since I am super sensitive to SLS, I rarely go there except when I want to get a few very specific products (my husband’s cologne and that rose balm they sell).

              2. Wired Wolf*

                I’ve been getting my hand sanitizer at a small natural/organic store. Still has the required alcohol percentage but is a lot easier on the skin and nose. A bit more expensive, but that may well be why they’re not sold out.

            2. Iris Eyes*

              The good news is that all the precautions that work for Covid-19 will work for the flu as well. I wonder if we see a HUGE decrease in flu and flu like illnesses over the next few weeks. I hope someone does some analysis on how many fewer people die of the flu because of response to Covid-19. It may be a net positive.

              1. 00ff00Claire*

                I’m very interested in that as well! Especially since it’s been a bad flu season, I’m very curious if the spread of flu will slow down. I how it does!

              2. Parenthetically*

                I JUST had the same thought. I would be thrilled considering I have a toddler and an infant who have been nonstop sick (but not the flu) for three months.

                1. NoLongerYoung*

                  I came to this part of the thread to say this. Yes, noted in the WSJ earlier this week. I’ve been reassuring mom and others – just take the precautions you take during a tough flu season when the flu shot didn’t work, and that’s about the best you can do right now.

                  Japan has had a very positive decrease in regular flu rates.

          2. Data4all*

            Hey! I just want to mention that something that failed to be monitored historically is how Zika and SARS effected pregnant women, not just how it effected the baby. It would be really good data especially in an area that often ignores the difference between male and female bodies and how they react to know not just how females react differently but how it effects pregnant women differently.

            Not sure if that is what you are studying but I thought I’d mention it.

            1. Medical Nerd*

              Thanks for bringing that up! It’s really interesting that you mention it because my mentor is actually preparing a study on exactly this subject – the gendering of Zika and the women who were essentially “blamed” for getting it and making their babies microcephalic. It’s such a complicated and tragic topic but as you point out, the women who were pregnant were marginalized in a lot of ways. It’s cool to know that other people are thinking about this stuff too.

              1. Data4all*

                Most of my knowledge comes from the book: “Invisible Women: Exposing Data Bias in a World Designed for Men” by Caroline Criado-Perez. Its been super informative and frustrating to read at the same time. I’m so glad to know that people out there are working on studying these things!

              2. Artemesia*

                My daughter’s OB made it clear that she was not to travel to Florida for a work event when she was pregnant; her office coped and sent a non -pregnant employee. It was interesting to see men saying ‘well the odds are really small of getting it’ (this was when it was in fact endemic and a fair number of people were getting it) The women were all — of course it is an unnecessary risk.

            2. nonegiven*

              I know of one pregnant lady a couple years ago that refused to leave the house, under most circumstances, because that type of mosquito had been identified in a town about 30 miles away. It wasn’t carrying the virus, it was just the same type of mosquito.

          3. SophieChotek*

            Your research does sound fascinating! I wish I had time to go back and get a different degree too!

      2. Peaches*

        Thank you SO much for your comment! I think what you do sounds absolutely fascinating. I would say yes, it does help to know that in this busy time, we are making others’ day to day lives marginally easier. Of course, over the years, I’ve dealt with customers calling in with 911 emergencies, demanding product ASAP (i.e.,”I’m the maintenance director for such and such nursing home and we’re completely out of soap!” – wish I was kidding about this). Which, is easy enough to deal with since we of course have soap on stock at all times, but equally irritating because you think “why didn’t you prepare for this?!” Obviously, this is different since no one could have prepared for the massive impact that coronvarius has had.

        Thanks for your calming vibes!

      3. RabbitRabbit*

        As someone who works in a hospital (research regulatory issues) AND has done some at home CDC/FEMA-recommendations disaster prepping for several years, it’s been interesting watching my usual online stores go from regular stock to sold out. Seemed like prep stores went fast (before it even left China, for the most part), down to more specialized stores more recently. Like an ‘environmental’ home goods/cleaners store sold out of sanitizer this week; I finished my order with them last week. They have a nice blood-orange scented hand sanitizer with moisturizers but still 60+% alcohol. And Costco is out of toilet paper and the last “disaster prep” item that I saw left last week were bucket lids.

        1. Tinker*

          Heh, I had an idle pondering of getting another case of MREs more because I was reminded they exist than anything particularly news-related and… noooooooope.

          1. RabbitRabbit*

            Yup. Serious preppers were waaaaaay out in front of this one – but then again, they do that for everything. I did just snag some of the ‘disaster food caloric bar’ stuff that’s serious survival grade and good for years, but that’ll be more of a filler food if need be.

            1. Mama Bear*

              Some of that long shelf life food is gross or needs extra ingredients (which IMO defeats the purpose). I’ve heard that Huel isn’t too bad but depends on the flavor. The thing people forget most seems to be adequate supplies of potable water. You can’t drink toilet paper.

        2. Cotton Headed Ninny Muggins*

          I think we use the same environmentally friendly household goods service. I got blood orange hand sanitizer this week as well, along with compostable antibacterial wipes.

          1. RabbitRabbit*

            It’s nice stuff. :) I already have tooooons of hand soap so no need to stock extra of that.

            1. Wired Wolf*

              I also stocked up on my preferred soap brand (Everyone brand) when it was on sale. What I love about their hand soap is that you really don’t need a lot so the bottle lasts longer than you think.

              (I try to keep stocks of sanitizer in reserve anyway because working with the public; I don’t overuse it, mainly after my commute home or when I’ve inadvertently picked/cleaned up something gross at work)

      4. I'm A Little Teapot*

        LOL, you’ll love my company’s response so far – posted below. Search my name. (oh, and I’m on the high risk list thanks to my asthma. Mgmt actually knows this because I had a really bad flare last fall. They are seriously clueless)

        1. Medical Nerd*

          Thank you very much for sharing! Sadly, that news article doesn’t surprise me in the slightest. Epidemics often act as an ultimate breach in the social contract of privacy; when your actions can infect others, suddenly you are no longer an individual with rights, but instead seen as a vector who must be policed and controlled by the actions of others. The contextualizing factors regarding what choices you make and why go right out the window because panic has a way of making people aware of the vulnerability of the herd at the expense of the individual.

          I’m doing my collection work in North America (Canada and the US) so I haven’t done the necessary background work to know this for sure, but I speculate that this loss of privacy is even more intense in cultures that have a focus on collectivism rather than individuality. When the social emphasis is on the good of the group as a whole, personal liberties are even easier to extinguish. It’s a complex morass of feelings and logics and responses that makes things like posting the tracked locations of infected individuals seem like a good idea. What a mess.

      6. CKara*

        Hi medical nerd!
        I’m in Australia and here, people are pillaging supermarkets for toilet paper – if you go in at any normal hour forget it. Despite authorities continuously assuring the public that there is absolutely no risk of the country running out of the stuff, people are madly buying and stashing far more paper than they’d need to get through Covid19 and any other imaginable threat to our everday lives. It’s absolutely nuts and embarrassing that this is the Australian publics (unofficial) response.

    8. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      This has validated my life goal of always being prepared. We are fully stocked and can hold off until y’all can manufacture more. *sprays Lysol at everything* I thought it was a bit excessive for a tick but nah. We’re throwing wipes at everyone.

      I just heard someone cough and almost hit the ground, you’d think we’re in a war zone, we’re all so jumpy.

      1. Peaches*

        Bless you for being prepared. I’ve had ONE lady call who said, “oh, no worries, I keep stocked up on this stuff all year!” when I told her we were backordered on sanitizer. I could have hugged her through the phone! Also, I appreciate your comment about us deserving bonuses. I sure feel like we do! LOL.

        1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

          I’m just over here judging those who aren’t prepared. I get it when it’s a budget issue. Citizens are one thing but the people you’re working with are most certainly businesses who aren’t ordering well enough. It’s cold and flu season, you should have upped your stock starting like 3 months ago. It has a long shelf life, bros. [I suppose we can talk about storage space too though, so meh but still…]

          Also we can blame people who are trying to game the system and price gouge people for some of these shortages. I’m glad they’re being taken care of. If you’re going to play that game, put that stuff in your trunk and do it on the street, not Amazon, Karen.

          1. CL Cox*

            There are those o us who have prepared, but this new potential virus means that we need to get even more than we already have, because students and visitors are all using more hand sanitizer than they usually do, custodians are having to disinfect more than they usually do, etc. Keep in mind that when we have something like the swine flu of several years ago, that was the flu that was going around. This year, we have a nasty strain of flu going around AND we now have a potential pandemic.

            1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

              That’s fair! It’s one thing to run out quickly but sometimes it really sounds like these folks aren’t having ANYTHING in stock to begin with.

              But I’ve been obsessed with washing my hands since childhood. I had to tone it down because I got cracked hands after the teachers taught us back in Kindergarten.

        1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

          Everyone thinks I’m some kind of “prepper”.

          No. I’m not. I was just away from stores most of my life, so we always had 2-4 weeks of supply any given time. If a storm takes out a road, we wanna wipe our butts too, maaaaaaaaaaan! [And worse case, if we don’t, I’ve got other alternatives, a standard Costco sized TP would last our family of 4 at least a month, so I’m shocked at the level people are going to LMAO]

          It’s not prepping to have a fully stocked freezer and pantry. It may be some kind of privilege since I’m able to buy in advance. Again, not shade towards anyone with fixed income you know. But those folks aren’t the ones doing this, lbr.

          I’m not a prepper. I don’t have the ego to assume that the rapture will come during my life time or anything like that but I’m certain natural distastes will make life hard sometimes!

          1. RabbitRabbit*

            This. I prep for short-term problems, not the end of the world. I grew up with a electric-powered water pump on our well, so if the power goes out I still reflexively think “don’t flush the toilet”. Sometimes you just have to be ready for life throwing you a curveball, and if you’re able to do that then it makes sense to do it.

          2. Tau*

            This has really made me rethink the value of having enough supplies to feed myself for 2 weeks or so if necessary. I still think it’s exceptionally unlikely that the supply chain will break down to the point where I can’t buy anything – I live in a major European metropolitan area, if that happens here we’re already in disaster zone – but really, even outside the current situation, what if I get the flu? The first thing I want to do then is *not* to drag myself out to the shops to buy a week’s worth of supplies.

            (Unfortunately, it seems everyone else feels the same, which is why the shops over here have been nearly empty of staple foods. I’d call it ridiculous if I hadn’t contributed.)

            The main problem for me is storage space. I have, like, one kitchen cupboard worth of space for nonperishables. I ended up putting most of the tinned stuff into the fridge and the giant pile of pasta is now in a random shelf. Same with freezer space – my two freezer drawers are now packed, but the contents are not going to tide me over for a huge amount of time.

            1. Diahann Carroll*

              Yup – I have this same problem thanks to living in a studio apartment. I have storage in the building, but I don’t want to put any of my supplies in my locker because it’s see-through, and I don’t want anyone knowing what all I have should this situation get worse.

            2. The Man, Becky Lynch*

              I have limited built in storage in my “kitchen”, it’s a studio as well. So I got shelves and made myself a “pantry” on one of my walls. Then I got a small island kind of “table” that has room to store things as well. They have lots of utility racks and units that work wonders because you can’t depend on enough cabinets!

              I shop weekly for perishables/fresh fruit/veg but if I’m stuck, I have rice, pasta and tuna to get me through that nasty.

              1. Tau*

                My flat is actually reasonable in size – one-bedroom, so not a studio – the problem is that it manages to have three exterior walls and I have giant floor-length windows everywhere. I have gotten very creative with furniture, and occasionally gave up and put my desk or a low shelf in front of a window, but I still have just enough storage for my stuff and no more. On the plus side, I get tons of light, and I live alone so if the pasta box ends up in my bookshelf nobody is judging.

                1. RabbitRabbit*

                  I am somewhat limited on kitchen storage so my stock of heirloom dried beans (any unopened bags, basically) mostly ended up in a plastic under-the-bed storage box.

                2. Diahann Carroll*

                  Ha! That sounds like my setup with the floor to ceiling windows (I have a large balcony door on one wall) and zero extra space once the essentials were in. I don’t even have the space to build a makeshift pantry, so if push comes to shove, I’ll just move all the junk I currently have under my bed to my basement storage unit and start storing non-perishables under there instead.

                3. Director of Alpaca Exams*

                  We put up sturdy, stable full-height shelving in front of our excessive windows. Storage space is essential!

          3. Lora*

            Solidarity, my sister. I’ve lived in rural areas where trips Into Town are infrequent and involve running a gauntlet of angry deer, all seemingly determined to smash in the front of your elderly Ford Escort, and buying whole months’ worth of supplies is very normal to me. That stocked chest freezer and pantry full of home-canned goods and veggie garden has also gotten me through some very, very lean times (unemployment, divorce, then-spouse not bringing home a paycheck for extended periods) when groceries were Ramen noodles, peanut butter and day-old bread.

            Now I’m surprised that anyone on earth wishes to spend precious waking minutes shopping for toilet paper instead of having it delivered via subscription, because it seems very practical to me to delegate that task to Jeff Bezos, and then never contemplate it again, which is definitely also a luxury. But when people insist that I’m some kinda prepper, I’m wondering why they appear to enjoy standing in lines at checkout counters, getting rammed in the legs with shopping carts, circling parking lots looking for a spot within 1000 feet of the front door, etc. I’d rather look at cat pictures on the internet.

          4. Yorick*

            Well, and these people are going out and panic-buying hand soap. Didn’t they wash their hands before? It was already flu season!

            1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

              Right? I have soap dispensers at each sink, then industrial sized refilling tanks of soap. I wash my hands regularly throughout the day and even more so when cooking naturally.

              We have bar soap too in the bathroom for our bodies. And a couple bottles of dish soap under the sink. I also have friends who make soap, so I’ve got plenty of that too LOL

          5. Cobalt Collector*

            It is a privilege to be able to keep a stocked pantry and freezer but I don’t take it lightly at all.

            My mother kept a pantry –not too big– but we rarely ran out of anything we needed. Money was extremely tight when I grew up. The weekly groceries included big cuts of meat that my dad would then slice into smaller meal size pieces, wrap, and freeze.

            I keep a good pantry with different varieties of pasta, rice, grains, canned goods, condiments, spices, stuff for baking, etc. This stood me in good stead when I was laid off unexpectedly and tried to survive on unemployment and as little savings as possible. Right now, I have enough in house, including TP, tissues and cleaning supplies, to last me a while without shopping, except for fresh milk and bananas. (No freezer space for either.)

            I’m in a vulnerable age bracket and have a low level risk factor. If I have to stay home for a while, I will be fine as long as I have internet and cable.

            1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

              I try not to take it lightly, growing up with friends with food scarcity issues I saw young i knew that not all kids got to go to bed full :(

              But at the same time, I come from dirt poor laborers. My grandparents survived the Dust Bowl and then the Great Depression, so frugality has always been an issue and food has always been sacred but stocked up. The one thing my dad told me growing up was that food was his priority and that’s why we lived in a trailer because “ef a house, I want a full belly!” So I’ve seen dirt poor but never starvation on a personal level because of my parents priorities being firmly in check every step of the way.

          6. Artemesia*

            I was always like this but now I live in a tiny condo and so am not that deep with supplies — I probably could do a couple of weeks of quarantine though with a little delivery help and all the rice and beans and such in the pantry.

          7. Mama Bear*

            In my experience we’re more likely to lose power after a storm or have snow or a water main break than something bigger so that’s what we aim for. We lost power for a week once and that was eye opening in a lot of ways.

      3. RabbitRabbit*

        Yeah, I do prep at the CDC/FEMA-level of recommendations and when I discovered Costco was out of toilet paper earlier this week, I still had a dozen rolls at home. (I know COVID-19 isn’t norovirus; we just have a history of running out at inopportune times, which I consider to be a disaster.)

    9. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      PS. I hope y’all get some bonuses after the hysteria dies down because you deserve it. The baby sized capitalist inside of me [that’s always being swaddled inside my progressive/socialist views, lol, go figure] is squealing inside only because that cash flowing still despite us being holed up like grizzlies going into hibernation.

    10. Lola Banks*

      This reminds me of the time I called a Popeye’s last summer and instead of “hello” the greeting was, “if you’re calling about the sandwich, we don’t have it.”

      1. Peaches*

        Haha! Honestly, very similiar – although you could argue that that one is a bit more of a “need” than the other ;)

    11. Third or Nothing!*

      I feel for you. The panic buying reminds me of when Hurricane Harvey hit Houston and everyone in Texas made a run on gas stations thinking supply would be hit because of all the refineries in the path of the storm. In reality, what created the shortage was everyone stockpiling gas all at once and topping off every day.

      Wish I could make you a nice calming cup of tea.

      1. Peaches*

        Yes! It is very similiar to that. Also, FWIW, I bring my own calming tea to work and have already had some this morning. :)

        1. Third or Nothing!*

          I may need to share some with you. I’ve got PPA and have been fighting a panic attack all day now that there are 2 confirmed cases in a city 4 hours away from us…that we’re supposed to go on a work trip to on Monday. No one else on my team is worried. I’m trying to decide what the actual risk would be given that the virus is definitely coming to our city now due to all the travel between the two.

    12. A. Ham*

      word.
      We may need to start a coronavirus thread every friday to talk about how it is impacting people’s work, and checking in on those who it is impacting very specifically (like you).
      I work at a performance venue and we already have people canceling their tickets for future performances and demanding refunds (which we are not giving, at this point, as the performances will still be happening). We are planning on this getting worse before it gets better, and have plans in place for POSSIBLE cancellations if and when it does. But for now, in a city (and state) where there has not yet been one confirmed case, I just want to say “go on with your normal life, just WASH YO DAMN HANDS”.

      1. Peaches*

        That is such a great idea! I would love to read that thread and see the impact that it has had on others’ work. You have my sympathies on what you are dealing with. It sounds equally frustrating to what I’m dealing with here.

        Also, YES on the hand washing! That has been the main piece of information that everyone at my company has been giving their customers over the past few weeks. Nothing can prepare you as well as practicing good hand hygiene will!

      2. Matilda Jefferies*

        I would be very interested in a thread like that. Little impact on my work so far, other than a reminder from the CEO to wash your hands etc.

        The interesting thing to me is that we’re moving to a new office in 2021 – the building is going up as we speak, and we’re in the process of getting new furniture and tech for everyone. The thing is, that the parts for pretty much everything are made in China. So – nuts, bolts, drill bits and so on for building construction. Laptop components. Furniture. Basically any Thing that you can physically touch is at least partly made in China, and is now a potential risk related to our move. Just at the monitoring stage right now, and it sounds like some of the factories are opening again, so it may not end up being a problem. But it’s fascinating to draw all these threads out, and just see how much we’re all interconnected.

      3. getaway_girl*

        I was supposed to attend a work conference this month that was not easy to get approval to attend. Found out this week it’s been canceled. The conference registration was refunded right away and I was able to get the hotel reservation canceled, but the airlines aren’t refunding anything unless your ticket meets specific criteria. Not great for an organization that considers trip insurance a luxury item. I’m not the one eating the cost, fortunately, but it’s not looking good for me to ever attend this conference in the future.

      4. KitCat*

        Yes! I work at a university and I am very worried about being made to work from home if something happens on our campus. I hate and don’t know how to work effectively from home. I have such a solid separation from work and home that I’d hate to ruin it…

        1. Seeking Second Childhood*

          Trade home office space with a neighbor or friend in the same boat and commute to each other’s living room?

      5. Creed Bratton*

        Thanks to a lack of janitorial services, an lazy administration, and a worthless maintenance dept we’ve been working with two bathrooms for about 1000 people – so work’s promise of delivering more sanitizers and soap just doesn’t mean much. I’m in an area with several ‘presumptive’ cases within an hour.

        I’m still in the “calm yo tits” camp: the paranoia and stress around this is not helpful. Concern and general preparations – yes. It’s a novel virus and you should always be prepared (my ass with just raid my hurricane kit if I have to). But it’s getting so much attention not because it’s super deadly – it’s just the first time in modern times we’ve been able to track a virus in real time. I think the 24/7 news cycle has made this visual (and continues to hype it up instead of explaining the science) and the scope on the actual threat has just been lost.

        1. Frankie*

          For me, the concern is not catching it myself, but catching it and passing it to someone in a high risk category. I know several people who would qualify as that and I’m worried more for their outcomes if it spreads everywhere.

          1. Creed Bratton*

            Agreed…and the panic and hoarding of supplies only endangers those in nursing homes or medical facilities.

        2. lemon*

          Yes, thank you! The paranoia over this is making me irrationally angry this week. Yes, we should take precautions, but people are acting like this is the zombie apocalypse or something when the reality is that unless you’re a vulnerable population (e.g. elderly, respiratory issues, etc), most people are going to be fine.

          1. CorruptedbyCoffee*

            As someone in a vulnerable population, who knows many others in a vulnerable population, you probably know a lot more of us than you think you do. Until today, nobody at work knew, but it sure did get tiring hearing everyone talk about how only the vulnerable would die.

            1. Caroline Bowman*

              If you are in a vulnerable group, then how have you survived:

              Sars, Avian flu, swine flu… and all the other very serious, potentially-fatal-to-immune-compromised-people infectious diseases that do the rounds every other year? Unfortunately this particular one, because of where it originated, has devolved into absolutely insane hysteria. People die of plain old regular flu regularly, why is this specific one suddenly making everyone petrified to live their normal lives?

              That’s what’s making me extremely irritable. One can appreciate that something is genuinely serious and the necessity to take care and wash hands, avoid unnecessary crowded places, seek medical help in the event of any protracted illness, but going ballistic and shutting everything down seems a bit like overkill.

              2. Avasarala*

                … You didn’t.

                Some people don’t want their loved ones or themselves to die.

                There’s no need to panic but absolutely people should be taking appropriate precautions. That has nothing to do with where the virus originated–people are concerned here too.

      6. doughnaut*

        I work in international trade/logistics and we’re running into huge supply chain issues. Even if the coronavirus disappeared tomorrow we’d be screwed for the next couple months… And I don’t see it disappearing for a while yet (if ever–I’ve seen some people speculate it’ll stick around like the flu with outbreaks during the winter every year).

        Also I was supposed to go on a business trip to Japan next week and that was cancelled.

      7. Director of Alpaca Exams*

        My workplace (small office in a big city) had a very calm meeting on Monday and follow-up email listing the tools we all needed to be able to use from home and asking us to make sure they were installed and working by today. No panic, just preparedness. But our biggest annual industry event was just canceled, which is a huge financial hit for us.

        We’re putting on a big event (~1200 people) in July and so far plans are going forward, but we’re in very close contact with the convention center and local authorities. One of the people in charge of event planning blithely said “I hear it’ll be over by summer, we’ll be fine” and the rest of us had to explain that you prepare for worst-case scenarios, not best-case ones!

    13. A Poster Has No Name*

      Wow. Hang in there, Peaches! I moonlight at Target and I’ve gotten to the point that I just want to say “no” when a guests goes to ask me something, because 90% ask “where” the hand sanitizer, sanitizing wipes, masks, alcohol, etc. are. Not if we have them, but where, as if we haven’t been out of most of that stuff for days or more.

      And I live in a place that doesn’t have any confirmed coronavirus cases yet.

      1. Havarti*

        I may need to wear a sign that says “I’m just here for cat food, I swear!” when I go to the store.

      2. Peaches*

        I can so relate! The number of phone calls that I’ve gotten where the person starts off with “Yes, I need 50 CS of hand sanitizer to deliver by tomorrow morning” just baffles me. We have been out for DAYS. Not to mention, once we DO get a delivery in, there are about 326 customers in front of you who will be getting their product before you (so no, even once we do get the product in, you won’t be getting it the very next morning!)

        1. Seeking Second Childhood*

          I’m just hoping this I can replace my jug of plain old bleach that coincidentally ran out. I just need to fight mildew!

    14. Libretta*

      And yet the soap remains! I’m in Seattle and there is NO sanitizer or wipes to be found – but soap! Everyehere! So much of it, and I would laugh if I found this situation funny at all. It is in the same aisle as the sanitizer, and no one is touching it.

      1. Jaid*

        I scrounged a bar of really luxe soap gifted to me a couple of years ago and a silicon bag from my apartment and brought it with me to work. If I have to wash my hands more often, I’m not using that office crap that burns.
        Oh, and the local paper had an article about a dude selling face masks meant to keep one from touching their face…Henry The Hand Health Shield

        1. urban teacher*

          I bought lemon hand soap for the students to use to encourage them to wash hands. I figure if it’s good enough for me, they would like it. Its a hit.

      2. another scientist*

        Tell me about it! Soap is also more effective for certain germs, like e coli, which hand sanitizer doesn’t get. It is the better option!

      3. Caroline Bowman*

        good old soap and water, preventing fatal infections for so many years. Humble, plain soap and running water.

    15. What's with Today, today?*

      Admittedly, I’m in a state where we’ve only had a few cases and one death, but CoronaVirus is barely on my radar. We did a 30 minute interview with the Exec. Director of our health system yesterday and she said we should be far more worried about the reglar flu. She was on air talking about how this is so totally overblown.

      1. Creed Bratton*

        My bet is that within 5 years we’ll all be sharing memes about this overreaction (anybody remember Y2K?)

          1. JustaTech*

            Or Ebola? (The current epidemic in the Democratic Republic of Congo is tentatively declared over.)

            Here’s the thing about public health; if you’re doing your job right, no one sees the value because nothing bad happens. Because you were out there preventing it. You can only count lives lost when actions aren’t taken, it’s much harder to count lives saved by actions that were taken, when it comes to this kind of generalized disease prevention.

            3. gyrfalcon*

              “ Here’s the thing about public health; if you’re doing your job right, no one sees the value because nothing bad happens. Because you were out there preventing it.”

              Exactly the same thing about IT and Y2K. People think Y2K was overblown, but that’s only because they don’t see how phenomenally much work those of us in IT did to re-program systems to avert the risk.

          2. ...*

            I mean people did die from those things :/ If you had a family member die from it you might not think it was so overblown.

            2. What’s with Today, today?*

              I think you misread my comment; I didn’t say that I think it’s overblown. I said the head of our entire hospital system went on my live morning radio program and said its ”totally overblown”. Big difference. And I do, actually, have a dear friend that spent 87 days in the hospital with West Nile. I also hate Crohn’s disease and take two immunosuppressive drugs (Humira, Imuran(sp?)). But the truth is, if it’s my time, it just is. I could get hit by a bus this afternoon.

          3. Loose Seal*

            I had a friend die from SARS after being comatose for 36 days. She left behind a husband and two kids under 5 years old. I don’t think it’s overblown when we live in a very connected world. You don’t know who will come down with it and when.

            1. Caroline Bowman*

              I went to university with a lovely girl whose mom died of Ebola. She was a nurse and a person came in (I’m in South Africa) via the emergency room and was operated on and… she was a theatre sister and unfortunately he then turned out to have, and die of, ebola.

              She realised she had it before she even left hospital that day due to his symptoms and literally never went home again, just got herself isolated and said goodbye to her family from behind protective screens. It was heartbreakingly terrible and so unfair. However. These diseases are literally everywhere, all the time, and we must try our best to live sensibly and rationally.

        2. Frankie*

          Y2K is actually a good example of how all the focus on it prevented a legitimate disaster. So it wasn’t overhyped, it was addressed because of how much attention it got.

          1. Steve*

            Same with SARS. They were able to swiftly contain it to the degree that it was completely eradicated.

    16. Fake Old Converse Shoes (not in the US)*

      I’m so sorry! Me country announced our first case and now my father is completely paranoid. I guess makes sense, being in the at risk group, but in any moment he’ll start supervising me when I wash my hands and I’ll snap because I loathe being treated like a baby. One of my coworkers is even worse, he bought five boxes of masks and constantly sprays disinfectant over his laptop.

    17. Hei Hei the Chicken from Moana*

      I’m a meeting planner. It’s not going well for us either! Solidarity!

    18. Mina, The Company Prom Queen*

      Oh, no! I can imagine! I hope it gets better and easier soon. :)

    19. De Minimis*

      I work at a medical clinic and we are having real problems getting what we need from our suppliers now. My sympathies!

    20. Windchime*

      I work for a group of hospitals in the Seattle area (so, Ground Zero). Even the clinical areas are getting low on these types of supplies, so those of us in non-clinical areas such as IT have been asked to surrender our hand sanitizer and clorox wipes so that they can be distributed to patient-care areas. I’m happy to do that since I am now among the thousands of Seattle workers who are working at home for the next couple of weeks; I’m safe in my home so I will gladly donate my supplies from my desk.

      It’s crazy here. Both of my adult sons have jobs where you can’t work from home; I’m worried about them catching the virus.

      1. Krabby*

        I live in a major city close to Seattle but up in Canada (take a guess). People are hoarding essential items and groceries. The local pharmacy had to put hand sanitizer behind the counter because people were getting into physical altercations over it. I’m glad they’re thinking about health care professionals where you are.

    21. Krabby*

      My mom works in a lab and they need N95 masks on hand because of one specific chemical that is rarely used, so they have about 100 sitting in storage and they use one every 2-3 weeks. Someone stole a box early on and brought them down to 50 masks.
      All the other labs in her building finally ran out of masks last week and someone on her staff told the volunteers they still had some. So now my mom has had to field multiple people a day literally begging her for masks which she cannot give out.

      People are Panicked.

    22. Gaming Teapot*

      Oh dear. You have my sympathies!

      Our office is still mostly chill about it. We’ve got some more soap and sanitizer boxes and instructions on how to wash your hands properly in the bathroom now, and HR sent around a few mails with general guidelines, but short of closing the entire office, I think that’s all the Covid-19 prevention our office is going to get–we work in an open plan, hotdesking environment and work from home is not possible due to equipment required for the job. So if Covid-19 hits one of us, it’s highly likely the rest of the office will get it within days.

      I know I should probably be more worried, being in the risk group of people with pre-existing respiratory illness, but if I panicked over every thing that could kill my lungs, I’d never be leaving the house again, so I’m mostly just waiting to see what’s going to happen here.

    23. Introvert girl*

      I have asthma and in winter I use my anti-smog mask regulary (I live in one of the most polluted cities in Europe). I buy my filters online from the same store every year. They are out of everything in the entire store! Thank god I still have an extra filter and three months worth of inhalers. But this is really shitty.

    24. KayDeeAye*

      You may not believe this, Peaches, but I truly do understand pretty much exactly what you’re going through because way back in 1979, I worked at a company that issued and read radiation badges, and in March of that year was when Three Mile Island (a nuclear reactor in Pennsylvania) experienced a partial meltdown and EVERY radiation badge withing 600 miles of the place – which is a LOT of radiation badges, BTW – suddenly had to be read, like, yesterday.

      It was H.E. double hockey sticks for me, too! So I stand in Disaster Side Effects Solidarity with you, sister!

    25. Amethystmoon*

      I hear you. So far it hasn’t really affected my job yet, but I know other people who work at my company and it has affected their jobs. As in, they’re responsible for buying teapots to be sold at stores, but also tea cups, the tea bags, and the sugar to go in the tea, and everyone is buying everything possible related to tea and it’s affecting inventory everywhere. I’ve heard there are lots of issues and everyone is under a lot of stress. I’m surprised it hasn’t affected me since I key in pricing on some of the items related to the tea (although I did get one large batch this past week for another state, but that state hasn’t gotten the virus yet that we know of).

  3. Kimmy Schmidt*

    In a few years, I might need to make a slight career shift to move to the same location as my partner, and I’m trying to plan ahead if that happens.

    I’m currently an instruction librarian. Does anyone have any suggestions for jobs that are tangentially related to either academic librarianship or teaching/training (the teaching component is really my favorite part of the job, but I don’t want to move into K12)? Maybe skills that I should be looking to improve? Ways that I’ll be more marketable?

    1. Diahann Carroll*

      Well there are corporate librarians in various industries that still have paper files (e.g., healthcare and insurance), so maybe you could look into those kinds of positions. Also, instructional design may be a good shift for you as well since you like the training aspect of your job.

      1. AnonAnon*

        This. My company has an archivist (several actually) that file different things but also help retrieve items if needed. I am in healthcare.
        A lot of the libraries at my company are electronic now, but there are people that manage and work on that. Not sure in what capacity.

    2. AccountantWendy*

      Corporate training / internal training! Or even internal library work, which is rare but no un-heard of. It will depend on the size of the city / area you are moving to.

    3. eshrai*

      I currently work as a corporate trainer (well….that’s what I call myself at least). I work in government and get to train new staff on technical and soft skills related to the job. It includes some instructional design work, but also a lot of writing/editing when I’m not training. I really enjoy the teaching aspect, and like you, do not want to venture into K-12. If you have experience with training and want to pursue it more, you could look into corporate training. If there are government offices where you are re-locating you could look into a government role.

    4. Zennish*

      Public Libraries are often on the lookout for degreed librarians who can deliver educational programming or technical instruction. Some Publics hire librarians to specifically focus on technology training both for staff and the community. I can’t say the pay will be equivalent to an academic position, but there are also no tenure requirements, no publish or perish, etc. Beyond the usual online career sites, I’d start haunting the job boards for the state library dept. (or equivalent) and the local library schools and consortia if you’re interested in that route, when the time comes.

    5. CM*

      Some larger law firms and consulting firms have their own libraries with full-time librarians. You could also consider a research provider like LexisNexis, Westlaw, or Thomson Reuters — these are law-focused because I’m a lawyer, but I know there are other industries that have journals or resource aggregators (for instance, IEEE for engineers, MedLine for doctors).

      1. Thimby*

        Any job hunting advice for a new grad registered nurse? I’m graduating in December and nursing will be a second career for me.

        1. Quickbeam*

          Hi there, I’m a second career RN……it depends on what you are interested in….my recommendation is to get at least 2 years of clinical floor nursing before you think of any lateral moves (say to case mgt or office work). The market for new RNs in my Midwest area is very robust so you should have a lot of options.

          My personal opinion is that rotating shifts is awful so I always chose straight nights or evenings. Be careful with bonus offers as they often can indicate as desperate facility. But play to your strengths; be honest with yourself as to what kind of nursing you enjoy and feel good with.

      2. Yarrow*

        The publishers you mentioned are always hiring for sales people and trainers. Law firms also have trainers and technical instructors. Those jobs pay well too.

    6. Intermittent Introvert*

      Academic advisor or other student services at a college. You need the ability to teach one on one, work well with the public, manage lots of information. You may specifically look at advising for library science related programs because you know the career field.

    7. Leela*

      Programming/statistics. I have a friend who’s a masters in library science and she works for Microsoft handling data that was used to make the XAC controller. I think she learned the R programming language?

    8. dear liza dear liza*

      I would try the vendors, like EBSCO. I know a few instruction librarians who became trainers for the other side. :)

    9. Bubbles*

      Just a note – I work at a 7-12 school and our head librarian is an instructor. She has a classroom here and also oversees the Advanced Placement program and testing.

    10. OrigCassandra*

      Stopgap at best, but in case it’s helpful: look into information schools with distance/online programs. They’re quite likely to have courses in your wheelhouse that can be taught online from anywhere.

    11. anonybear*

      Have you thought of sales related to higher ed publishing? I used to work for ProQuest, and they employ lots of librarians! Teaching skills and sales skills are not dissimilar!

    12. Bibrarian*

      Health sciences librarianship! I’m at an academic health sciences center, so we serve students/faculty/staff from the professional schools and the practicing clinicians in our hospitals. We’re not quite a fully embedded model—we don’t go to patient’s’ bedsides on rounds or anything—but we do attend clinical meetings to provide our departments with point of need library support for research and patient care. Clinical librarian was my dream job, and I had no idea it existed until I applied to be one.

    13. I'd rather be snuggling my cat*

      If you also enjoy writing, you could take those teaching skills and direct them to technical writing – and if you have a good eye for graphics, you might also be interested in information design. But those are more if you want to switch to something less face-to-face! The nice thing about both of those options is that you can apply them to a variety of different industries and potentially work remotely, so there’s a lot of flexibility.

  4. LBAI*

    Anyone have any good excuses for being out of the office to interview? I’m finally getting back in the market after 15 years at one employer, and I’m a bit rusty. Any advice? Difficulty: will need to be out for interviews during my department’s busiest time, and I’m a terrible liar.

    1. Rayray*

      Just say you have doctors or dentists appointments. I had to make up an excuse yesterday for an interview today. I just said a slot opened for an appointment I’ve been waiting for. If they press for details, I’m saying I went to a dentist for an invisalign consultation. Only if they ask though.

      1. merp*

        I’ve gone with dentist in the past too, specifically because a) it’s not weird if there are follow up appts (if you have bad teeth like I do) and b) it’s not like, concerning or something someone would worry about if you had to go in a few times.

      2. Robbenmel*

        Or just say you have an appointment, without specifying. That’s what I have scheduled for Monday morning. An appointment.

        1. Jessen*

          Heck, I’m leaving the office in an hour for an actual doctor’s appointment and that’s what I said. I have an appointment. Because it’s really not anyone’s business?

        2. Donkey Hotey*

          Agreed. This is what I say. One doesn’t often specify the difference between a doctor’s appointment and a dentist’s appointment. By that logic, what kind of appointment it is shouldn’t matter. :-)

          1. Wired Wolf*

            The only reason I specified an eye doc appointment for my newest PTO request is so I don’t get asked “can you come to work right after?” due to I’ll need my pupils dilated and our idiot supervisor doesn’t need an opportunity to micromanage me or think I’m impaired.

        3. Veronica Mars*

          Also, this is yet another good reason to get in the habit of avoiding oversharing in general. If you always say you have an appointment, its not weird when you leave out the details.

        4. noahwynn*

          I had to take a day off to travel and even then I just said I had an appointment that day and needed the day off. No one questioned it at all.

      3. Veronica Mars*

        Just be careful on how you charge the time off (if thats something you need to do for your company). My company specifically talks about how charging sick time for interviewing is ground for firing.

        1. jenny*

          My company has a policy that if you lie to your manager or management generally, or attempt to mislead the company, it’s grounds for firing.

      4. Seeking Second Childhood*

        Are you so lucky to have a job that let’s you flex your schedule? If yes, make at least one day a week your ‘start early, leave early, hit the gym’ day and see if you can schedule interviews then. (Or hit the gym and start late/work late if you’d rather.)

      5. Daisy Avalin*

        My SO has an interview coming up, and we’ve said that I have a doctor’s appointment so he has to do school pick-up. He’s used the doctor/dentist excuse for himself several times over the last month or so, as he interviews, so felt he needed a slightly different excuse this time!

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I’m taking an afternoon off and citing multiple doctors’ appointments at a long commuting distance. That’s always a good one. Car repairs are another, though I can work from my car dealership’s service center. Depends on how much time you need off, too. 3pm interview and you want the afternoon off? You have friends in town.

    3. Amy Sly*

      I was lucky for my interview last week, as I’ve been having follow-up appointments from my kidney stone a month ago. I told my boss I had “an appointment” that morning and told the local gossips when I got in “only one more doctor’s appointment to go,” which was certainly true, if misleading.

      I’d stay vague as possible, and then imply without actually lying some kind of medical or dental appointment if anyone wants more info. The simplest kind of deception is the one that results when you tell the truth but others’ prejudices fill in the blanks. That way there are no lies you have to remember.

    4. Mel_05*

      I always say it’s the dentist. If your interview wear is very different from your everday work clothes I recommend bringing your work clothes in a bad and finding somewhere to change after the interview.

      I prefer Starbucks because of the single user restrooms, but you’ll know your town best.

      1. Amy Sly*

        One thing I did to disguise my interviewing last week was to dress a bit nicer all week long, spending more time on my hair and makeup as well. If you’re wearing black twill trousers normally, the black suit trousers won’t look that much different.

        1. Christmas Carol*

          I’ve suggested this before, always “dress up” at work one or twice a month, from your very first day onward. If the rest of the office is accustomed to seeing you in your interview suit every six weeks or so, it’s not quite so suspicious when you wear a pencil skirt and heels on the same day you claim to have an appointment with your gynecologist.

          1. Amy Sly*

            Not to mention it’s easy to dramatically tone down “business” to “business casual” by taking off the suit jacket and jewelry and switching to flats.

      2. learnedthehardway*

        I once prepped for an interview by dropping my suit off at a drycleaners on the way to the interview, getting them to press it and have it waiting for me that afternoon. When I was walking to the interview, I popped in there, changed in their change room, and left my other clothing to be drycleaned (if I’d needed to go back to work, I’d have just asked them to hold it for me).

        Worked very well.

        In terms of reasons to be out of the office – kid’s dentist appointments, kid’s doctor appointment work nicely, if you have kids. No need to explain why you’re perfectly healthy or flag that you might have a health issue to the office gossips.

    5. WearingManyHats*

      I have had a lot of interviews lately (thanks Alison!) and had to get creative. I was having actual roof issues late last year, so I said we had a follow up to that. I also used a plumber excuse once I felt I had used up all my doctors and dentists cards. I may have to check in on my inlaws the next state over soon…

      Good luck!

    6. KD*

      My partner is interviewing currently and has cited calls with his bank for phone screens. In a previous role, when interviewing, I just would say I had an appointment, or that I would be taking an extended lunch, and asked for time off or would explain how I would make up the time. Was never asked for a reason. I was also using up my benefits at the time and was frequently popping out to the optometrist or dentist during the day so it didn’t raise any red flags. Best of luck in your search!

      1. Anna Maus*

        This is where I am. For a phone screen, I’d say it was my bank or insurance company. If an interview was early in the day, an overflowing toilet is a good reason to be late that everyone understands.

        Interviews where I need to leave early or be out in the middle of the day, “I have an appointment.” I’ve never been questioned either.

        1. pugsnbourbon*

          “Home alarm going off” works about one time, in case you need to change it up.

        2. wondHRland*

          For phone screens I will usually try to take them between 11 – 1, and I make a point of going out to lunch occaisionally, so i can take the calls in my car., or i’l schedule for either early or late and then just ether leave work early or arive a little late.

    7. InsertCleverNameHere*

      I just default to “I have an appointment” 0r if you want to take a half-day “I have some personal stuff I need to take care of during business hours, I know this is a terrible time to be out, I’ll make sure to make up the time” and don’t bother trying to lie, but I also work someplace with sane management who don’t pry into time off requests.

      1. Mama Bear*

        Last time I interviewed it happened to bracket a planned vacation so I took an extra day off. Nobody questioned it. If you have time and rarely do, consider a Monday or Friday day off and make it a “long weekend to catch up on things”.

    8. Another name*

      Doctor or dentist appointments are always good, bonus if you also have family members you have to drive, or a vet visit if you have pets.
      Car repairs, long lunch with a friend, have to be at home to wait for repairman, are also good excuses if you need variety, which you might if you have multiple interviews.

    9. Natalie*

      Physical therapy is a good excuse if you need to provide details – it’s generally multiple recurring appointments over several weeks or months.

    10. Gaia*

      An appointment. Everyone knows it is sometimes code for an interview. But sometimes it isn’t. Can never tell.

    11. Miranda Priestly’s Assistant*

      When I was interviewing regularly, I said that I had to go to regular physical therapy. It justifies me having multiple doctors appointments in a short period of time.

    12. AnonAnon*

      I had a full day interview out of town one time and the night before I traveled to that city and the next morning I called in sick with a migraine. I do legit get migraines and with migraines you can look like you were never sick the next day. I got the job.

      Another time I happened to be planning my wedding and said I had an appointment with the florist and this was the only time they could fit us in, and took the whole day off .

      Other times I have taken my lunch from my car if it was a phone interview.

    13. Overeducated*

      One thing I love about my new boss: “Why you take leave is your personal business. You don’t have to share details with me.”

    14. Mina, The Company Prom Queen*

      Like others have said- doctors appointments, “not feeling well,” and if the interview is on a Friday or a Monday maybe see if you can take a pre-scheduled PTO day (if you can, although you did say it’s your busiest season, so maybe not the pre-scheduled PTO).

    15. Ariana Grande's Ponytail*

      My problem is that I’m having IRL car trouble and doctor’s appointments along with interviews! I am using the ol’ “Dentist is by my house, which is an hour away” excuse for now. But we’ll see what else I have to come up with!

    16. LBAI*

      THANK YOU everyone! These responses are so helpful; they are making me realize I can do this!

    17. Chili*

      If you’re expecting a lot of interviews, say you’re looking for new apartments or house-hunting (whichever is more applicable). It won’t explain being in a suit, but a lot of people will understand why you put more effort into hair and makeup and people understand there are several appointments involved in the apartment-hunting process. And it’s not an illness, so nobody is worried. Extra bonus (or con, depending on how you look at it), people will tell you a lot about their own apartments and how much they pay in rent.

    18. Jennifleurs*

      At my current workplace, I just say appointment. At my previous one, where all appointments needed to be proven, I had to take at least half a day holiday every single time. I’m British and get 20 days holiday (plus bank Holidays) and one year 13 of them went on interviews…

    19. MissDisplaced*

      Try to schedule your interviews early, like at 8am or 8:30am. It’s much easier to be in a bit late for a “doctor or dentist” appointment, or other plausible reason.

    20. Bex*

      Can you just say “I have a personal appointment I can’t reschedule”? This is what I’ve used, and so long as I don’t make it sound like a doctor’s appointment or similar, it’s worked fairly well for me.

      1. Anon-a-souras*

        If you have school aged kids- I highly recommend what I just did which was using ‘call with teacher, guidance counselor, as cover for phone screens and interviews.’ Call has to come during a specific window, but may not be exactly on time, but isn’t flexible – when the call comes in you have to take it, because calling a teacher in a classroom is difficult, and really, no one else wants hear about your snowflake’s behavior or homework problems, right?. Taking it in a quiet place Is best for everyone.

        Note – I also used this when I needed to keep a phone check in with my psych for a medication management call and my jerk boss wanted me to cover a meeting for her.

  5. Rayray*

    I have a job interview in two hours! This came wildly faster than I expected. I did a phone screen on Wed and was told if hear within a week about coming in. They got in touch yesterday to see if I could come in today. I’m super excited about it. What are your tried and true interview tips?

    1. SC in NC*

      Slow down
      Be yourself
      Stay in the moment and try to enjoy the process
      Think of answers to some potential questions
      Have some questions prepared
      Think about if you were hiring for this position, what would you want to hear from candidates
      Be proud of your accomplishments and don’t be afraid to “brag a little”
      Be able to reasonably explain why you’re looking to leave your current position and try to turn it to a positive..looking for more of challenge, more responsibility, etc.

      Best of luck!

      1. Rayray*

        Thank you! I’m nervous because I feel under qualified, but to my credit they did like my writing sample enough to bring me in, and clearly the recruiter liked me enough. *deep breath*

        1. MtnLaurel*

          If they are interviewing you, then THEY think you are qualified.They wouldn’t waste their time otherwise. Congratulations and good luck!

    2. ThatGirl*

      Try to stay relaxed, and remember that it’s as much about you interviewing them as the other way around. The point is to see if it’s a good fit. I always have a few questions written down and take a notepad, too, so I can take notes, have questions ready, and give my hands something to do.

    3. londonedit*

      Remember that they’ve invited you for an interview for a reason – it’s because they think you might be a good person for the role, and they want to meet you to find out more about you. It’s not meant to be a trap or a trick, it’s meant to be a positive two-way conversation about your skills and how they might be a good fit for the job and the company. So approach the interviewers as equals, and remember that you also need to use this as an opportunity to see whether the job and the company are a good fit for what you want out of your career.

    4. Emilitron*

      I like to write down answers to key questions, so I can think about it and find words and phrases I really like, ways to be succinct about things I care a lot about, and ways to gracefully skirt around things I am not wanting to get into. Obviously you’re thinking about these things ahead of time, but how do you get from “thought about” to “ready to talk about”? For me, it’s writing things out with a pen and paper – that’s what I do for interviews, for presentations, for difficult emotions (journaling). Maybe for you it’s verbal practice interviews, or making outlines, or typing up notes, but for me none of those compare to the way the physical writing process locks ideas into my brain for easy recall.

    5. irene adler*

      If the question seems vague or you are not sure what your response should be- ask for clarification before you embark on your response.

      1. rayray*

        I like this, and saw the same kind of idea on a job interview tips video I watched. I tend to ramble if I get too flustered, so I will definitely keep this one in mind!

    6. MissGirl*

      Right before I left my house for my last interview, I said goodbye to my nephew who was leaving home for two years. I was literally crying while I drove. I called my mom and told her to ask me some interview questions to change my mindset.

      She asked me the generic stuff like what are your strengths and weakness, etc. It completely focused me and got my jitters out. (It seems like it takes me a couple of questions to settle in any interview.) I nailed it and got the job.

      Next time I interview, I’m totally going to call someone right before and do some practice questions for ten minutes. Bonus points if it’s someone who tells you you’re totally awesome.

    7. Amy Sly*

      A couple of less obvious things I think I did that worked well at my successful interview last week and previous successful interviews:
      If at all possible, talk about how you like your current job. I think being able to say “I like my work, I like the people I work with, I just need a shorter commute” went a long way in suggesting that I would be a pleasant person to work with and a good fit for a similar role.
      Mirror the interviewer’s body language. If they’re sitting stiffly upright, do the same. If they’re slouching, relax in your chair, even if not to the same extent they are.
      With multiple interviewers, try to make eye contact with all of them throughout the interview.
      Goodness knows this next thing is not something everyone can do, but it worked for me last week: Remind yourself that you have a job. You don’t *need* this one to keep a roof over your head, so it’s okay to be more of yourself. Still be polite and pleasant of course, but when they ask a question, answer it based on what you think, not what you think they want to hear. If they don’t hire you because of it, well, you wouldn’t have liked working for them anyway.
      Ask questions that suggest you are aware of current events that might affect them. For the industrial service company I interviewed with last week, it was “how are the tariffs on Chinese goods affecting your business?”

    8. Zennish*

      Definitely be yourself… if you have to put on an act to get a job, you trap yourself into maintaining an act to keep it, which is pretty miserable. Relax and think of it in terms of whether they’ll be a good fit for you, and vice versa.

    10. LunaLena*

      Always bring a few copies of your resume, and, if applicable, a portfolio or samples of your work. I was told once after I had (successfully) interviewed for a job that having a portfolio to show and talk about made me look prepared and professional, especially in contrast to the other finalist who showed up with neither. Also it always look good if an interviewer says “sorry, I don’t have a copy of your resume” and you can say “That’s okay, I have some right here!” You might not end needing any of that, but you never know and it doesn’t hurt!

      Good luck on your interview!

    11. Stormy Weather*

      Hope it went well! Now is the time to write a thank you, and then have a relaxing weekend.

      1. rayray*

        Thank you everyone! Now, I doubt if anyone actually came back to hear my report. I feel like it went well. I think possibly they want someone more experienced, but I dont know for sure. I hope it went well.

        However…I went back to work and at the end of the day was informed that my position was being eliminated, so I was let go. I get three weeks of severance, so I really hope this job works out or that I find something else asap. I’m really okay though. I HATED that job and I’m glad I can really focus on job hunting but I could use a miracle now more than ever.

        2. Dr. Anonymous*

          I’m glad your interview went okay and so sorry about the lay-off!! I hope you find the right spot really soon.

  6. Nervous Nellie*

    Happy Friday, AAM friends!

    Here’s a new twist in applying online for jobs that has me gobsmacked. Yesterday morning, after I applied to a job online (Indeed) on Wed night, I got this baffling email from ‘Indeed Chat’. It listed the role I had applied to, the exact hours & minutes since I had applied, and provided a link to chat more about it with the employer! Huh? That goes against everything we talk about here. Pestering an employer? Seriously? And a mere 14 hours after submitting my app? Here’s the text of the message:

    “Message this employer directly. On average, candidates are 2x as likely to hear back if they follow up.

    JOB TITLE/COMPANY NAME & CITY LOCATION/ You applied 14 hours and 2 minutes ago

    JUST CLICK THIS LINK: Chat with ‘company name’

    Employers like to hear:
    Why you meet the requirements
    Specific follow up questions
    Personalized message”

    I did not click the link, but I did find the application in Indeed and unsubscribed from these auto-emails. Am I off-base? This seems like techno-gumption, so I am wary. Would love to know what you all think.

    1. Marny*

      Oof. Nooooo. It’s almost like these sites are actively trying to keep people from getting jobs so they’ll have to keep using them.

      1. ampersand*

        Agreed, and good point about job sites keeping themselves in business! I would avoid this at all costs.

          1. Nervous Nellie*

            Zephy, you owe me a new keyboard! I laughed so hard I snorted tea all over it. Thank you for the chuckle. Job searching sure needs more laughs!

      1. Zennish*

        “You just electronically march right in there, and digitally tell them you’re the person for the job!…” #gumption2020

    4. Jimming*

      Did you click the link to see what happened? A quick search on indeed says they don’t give our employer contact info. I wonder if it was their way of including a cover letter after you sent in the resume?

      1. Nervous Nellie*

        Hiya Jimming,
        No, I did not click on the link – it looked like a direct chat window like Skype or Slack, which I bet would have alerted the employer that I was contacting them. Steered clear of that! And I had already uploaded a cover letter with the resume. The Indeed upload platform lets you upload as many docs as you want during the application process.

    5. Oh No She Di'int*

      Yeah, getting a bunch of “follow-ups” from people who haven’t even been contacted for an interview yet would quickly get to be annoying AF.

      1. Nervous Nellie*

        Right???? I would think that the employer would have had to opt in for this as part of their listing package, but can’t find anything anywhere online about it.

    6. Are We There Yet?*

      Ugh. Once I clicked through to a job ad and it kept pestering me about if I had applied yet. You know that joke about kids in the back seat of the car saying “Are we there yet? Are we there yet?” It was that, but an AI bot to my email. I don’t use their site now if I can help it.

    7. ArtK*

      Is it possible that this is something that the company has opted into? I don’t know Indeed from the hiring side. Can anyone find out if that’s what’s going on?

      1. Nervous Nellie*

        Yeah, I would think that the employer would have had to agree to this feature. Yikes.

        I have been applying on Indeed for a couple of months now, and the other new feature I have seen is actually useful. Long after I applied to a couple of roles at the same company, Indeed sent me two separate updates letting me know if my applications were opened by the employer (one yes, one no) and most usefully, told me how may applicants they received per role (66 and 177) – useful intel that made me sit up straight and pounce on roles the first day I saw them because dang, 177! This may also be an employer-enabled feature, as I have not received it for all of the jobs I have applied for at various employers.

      2. Minimal Pear*

        If it’s the same Indeed Chat that Indeed keeps advertising to employers (I work in recruiting) then yes, it’s opt-in.

        1. Nervous Nellie*

          Interesting! Thank you, Minimal Pear! So the employer was agreeable to getting chat messages from applicants? If there are dozens of applicants, I bet the ‘pester’ button will get old for them pretty fast. I am still not going to use it. It just feels so pushy!

      3. I'm just here for the cats*

        I’ve applied to a bunch of places on indeed before and not all have this. I think it’s something the employer can opt into. One thing I’m wondering is if recruiters are the ones using this more?

    9. ynotlot*

      Oh God, that explains all the calls I have been getting. Thanks, Indeed. It’s awful from the employer side too. It won’t let me require a cover letter. And if I want to ask ANY application questions other than the basic ones they include (which are like, are you available for a day shift? did you graduate high school?) it includes a GIANT disclaimer that the applicants see: “This questions was added by the employer. You should report inappropriate questions to Indeed. Click this gigantic link to report this question for being illegal.” The question is usually like, why do you want this job.
      In essence, Indeed forces me to take applications that are literally just a form resume, no cover letter, no other information whatsoever (so, a very weak application) and forces applicants to do all kinds of stupid things.

      1. Nervous Nellie*

        Thanks, ynotlot!

        I wondered about the source of the questions in the little pop-up window that appears when uploading a resume – boilerplate or potentially illegal? Is there no middle ground? LOL.

        I also wondered why it says “upload resume here” and then beneath it, “upload other documents here” without any overt mention of a cover letter. I always add a cover letter in the ‘other docs’ slot, but wonder why they don’t insist on it already. That just drags out the whole process for both sides. Of course, it DOES keep Indeed busy and charging employers for all the ‘extras’. Sigh.

        Great intel – thank you! I learn so much from the AAM brain trust!

    10. Hydrangea McDuff*

      I was just in a webinar that talked about how chatbots are very helpful to HR depts for answering basic questions like benefits, salary, calendar. But definitely not for following up on applications!!

  7. Claire*

    Short version: I might have to give notice/resign during my performance review. I think this is a terrible idea??

    Long version: I have a job offer coming in the next week or so (informal offer has already been made, formal offer is coming soon). I have two bosses, both with very busy calendars and heavy travel schedules. Depending on when I receive and accept the formal offer, it might work out that the soonest chance to meet with my bosses will be during my performance review (which is already scheduled, with both of them, for a few weeks from now). 

    If possible, I’d like to avoid resigning during my review since it could become awkward and my bosses may be frustrated for having spent time preparing my review and then being hit with this news. Other than resigning during my review, my options could be: 

    1. If I accept the offer and still have a few days before the review , try to schedule time with each of my bosses on the phone, despite their busy schedules and traveling.

    2. If the timing doesn’t work, or my bosses both aren’t available by phone, send an email before the review to announce my resignation and say I can explain more during our meeting.

    3. Give notice in person, during my review.

    4. Play it straight during the review, even if I’ve accepted an offer already. Give notice a few days or week after the review, in person or over the phone. (Makes me feel like I’ll be lying during my review, but perhaps the best/safest option)

    Is there another option I’m not considering? What’s the most professional thing to do here? Despite the fact that I’m leaving (and will be giving 4+ weeks notice), I’d like to do right by my bosses and avoid burning a bridge. I’m the only person in my organization who does what I do, so there will likely be a rocky transition period when I leave.

    1. Marny*

      If it was me, I would just tell them at the start of the performance review meeting before getting to the review part. Let them know this is just how the timing worked out and that you didn’t want to inconvenience them by trying to set up a second meeting.

    2. Scarlett*

      I was in your boat, including a very busy, travel-heavy manager (I only had one). I went with option 3 and it worked fine. When the meeting opened, I asked if I could share something before we started on the actual performance review. Once I gave the news and she had time to process, we turned the meeting into an opportunity to talk logistics regarding my exit plan and how to support her and the team in the transition. We also talked about how to share the information with the rest of the team and with my grand-boss. For the record, we didn’t end up talking about my performance review. I guess both of us felt it was a moot point.

      Being a hiring manager myself, I’d say that I would much rather wait a couple more days to have the opportunity to have the conversation in person rather than by phone or email (please try to avoid email!).

        1. Viette*

          Speaking on behalf of email, I’ve used #2 to good effect when I had bosses that were not in the office with me. I was worried they would push back and argue/make counter-offers if I gave them the news in person at a meeting we had coming up (they knew my job sucked but they really didn’t want me to quit). I emailed them the day before the meeting to give notice and said I was letting them know in order to give them some lead time before our meeting tomorrow, but that I would be happy to talk on the phone or in person anytime before then, or we could go over it at the meeting itself.

          It was very well received, I think in part because I made clear that the point of the email was to give them a little time to think about what we needed to talk about before we sat down together.

      2. Mama Bear*

        Due to travel schedules I had to wait to meet with my last boss to tell them that I had accepted a different job. I would be upfront in the meeting. Sometimes that’s just how the timing works out.

    3. MissGirl*

      You’re overthinking it. Just give notice during the review as that seems the most opportune time.

      1. Claire*

        “You’re Overthinking It” aka the title of my life story, haha. Thanks for the input everyone

    4. LadyByTheLake*

      As a manager I would be EXTREMELY TICKED if you knew you were leaving but made me put together all of the review materials — especially if I was extremely busy and trying to put together a review on top of a busy travel schedule. Like, bridge burned level of ticked.Try calling each of them as soon as you are sure you are leaving. If you don’t reach them, leave a clear message “I’m sorry to do this over the phone, but I wanted you to know that I have accepted a new job and my last day will be DATE. I’ll hope we can talk about the transition plan at the time we had scheduled for my review.” Follow up with an email saying the same.

        1. LadyByTheLake*

          Doing thoughtful reviews takes hours (and at my last employer where I had to do them), had a lot of additional work where I had to enter the reviews into a computer and jump through a lot of hoops for even the standard annual increases. Because I was busy during the day with work, meetings and travel, I was having to come back to my hotel and do the reviews late into the night multiple nights. Yes – bridge burning level of ticked if I did that, and showed up for the review only to discover that the person was leaving anyway.

          1. CatCat*

            And the employee is supposed to know this about you how?

            Employees give notice at inconvenient times and it’s a hassle. Yeesh. They’re not trying to harm or annoy you.

            Your ire seems misdirected. It’s your employer that is the one working you so hard that you can’t reasonably fit your work into regular hours.

            1. Diahann Carroll*

              This. Reviews are part of a manager’s job, so it’s not the employee’s fault that you aren’t getting the support you need from your own management team to be able to complete them within a reasonable timeframe.

              1. LadyByTheLake*

                Agree — reviews are part of a manager’s job, so every employee understands that prior to the review meeting the manager is going to have to put in a lot of time to prepare for that review meeting. If I found out that an employee knew for (from the posting) weeks ahead of time that the review wasn’t necessary and waited until I had done all the work preparing for the meeting and waited until the meeting itself to spring the news on me that they were leaving I would be extremely annoyed. I agree that it is preferable to give notice in person, but it is MORE important to give notice timely.

                1. spock*

                  They don’t know for sure until they accept an offer. And they have no way to know if you are wrapping up their review material 3 hours before the meeting, or a week before because you have other directs to work on.

                3. Claire*

                  Hit post on accident. Chiming in to say that I don’t know for sure that the review is unnecessary at this point – I have a formal offer, one that I plan to accept, but I’ve learned all too well that nothing is certain until I’ve accepted a formal written offer. Things could still fall through at many different stages of this process

          2. I’ve been working in the Library*

            Yes, this, plus putting together the justification for the rating and pushing for a wage increase. Let them know when you can.

      2. Zudz*

        I’m basically just here to boost LadyByTheLake’s note. I would probably be less bridge-burned feeling, but otherwise we agree.

        1. Massive Dynamic*

          It’s not the employee who sets a laborious review process up though – that’s your boss/your company. Don’t take it out on an employee who resigns when it’s right for them. That’s not professional.

        2. Seeking Second Childhood*

          Know how your company handles raises. At some places, there’s a fixed % to be distributed among the group, and if A gets a big raise, B,C&D get less. PLUS if A leaves, their increase does not get passed on to the co-workers.

      3. MissGirl*

        I’m with CatCat. This is an extreme reaction. She isn’t procrastinating by weeks; it’s a few days. People resign during inopportune times all the time. It may be you lose some time with a review, or you took on a project specifically because of her, or everyone has vacations coming up. There’s no perfect time to resign that doesn’t come without a degree of inconvenience.

      4. Catalyst*

        I think that it depends on how the review process at that company works. I have my employee reviews done (and did at my last company too) weeks before that actual review meeting because it had to be reviewed by so many other levels, so an email or call a few days before the review meeting would make no difference for saving me time/effort.

      5. HM MM*

        Yeah – I would STRONGLY prefer to get info that is time sensitive in a non-ideal manner (via email), than have that info withheld solely for the sake of decorum.

        That said, I would not be bridge burning levels of ticked at the employee, I’d just be annoyed at the situation as a whole.

      6. OhCanary*

        On the opposite side, OP, I wouldn’t be ticked at all. As a manager of a large team I have to complete the review process as long as you’re still on payroll — which you are for x amount of weeks after you give notice anyway.

        I wouldn’t fret if I were you.

    5. WantonSeedStitch*

      I would definitely go with options 1 or 2 if possible, but if not, 3. Definitely, definitely don’t do 4. The one thing I’m thinking of that means it might not make a huge deal for them to have to do the work review in spite of your departure is that given your notice period, it might be that HR would make them do the review anyway even though you’re leaving: I’m pretty sure this would be the case where I work. But it would still be good to give them that advance notice so they have context. The only reason I WOULDN’T give them advance notice would be if you felt like they might be vindictive, and sabotage your final performance review–particularly if that would impact any bonus you might receive for work already done.

      1. Claire*

        This actually might be a concern so I appreciate you bringing that up. One of my bosses can be a bit unpredictable unfortunately

    6. Diahann Carroll*

      When I left my last job, I put in my notice the next business day after my review (review was on a Friday, notice went in Monday morning) – I had verbally accepted my job offer two weeks prior, but due to my company’s hiring approval process, didn’t get an actual letter to sign until Sunday afternoon, so I wasn’t going to put in notice until I had my letter and start date in hand. Plus, I also wanted to get my quarterly bonus, so I needed to wait until that check cleared my bank. The timing sucked for my boss, and she was definitely blindsided because I gave no hints about leaving during my review (I barely said a word during it and even when she asked if I had any feedback about her performance, I just said, “Nope”), but it is what it is. Sometimes these things just happen, but as long as you’re professional when you resign and finish out your notice period on a high note, you’re good.

    7. Rose Tyler*

      Are you in a role where you’d be eligible for a bonus based on performance where it should still pay out before you leave? That’s the only reason I’d wait until after a review. Just something to keep in mind.

    8. learnedthehardway*

      Whatever you choose to do, just make sure that you have the offer in writing and that all the background checks and references are done before you resign.

      In terms of timing – you’ll also want to make sure that you give adequate notice to your current employer. If that means resigning over the phone and following that up with an email, I would do that rather than waiting an extra week to resign in person. Esp. if it means you might be squeezed on time between leaving the one role and starting the other – people often want to take at least a few days off in between, and having that break is important to rest up, etc.

    9. Clementine*

      I am surprised by the managers who would be ticked off. The review would be due anyway in most cases. But what this response suggests to me is that if you expect a good review, is to get that on the books before you resign, as otherwise your manager might still do the review but grade you worse out of revenge. So I would probably get the review, and then give notice a few days later.

    10. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      Managers who are hard to pin down personally like this are the ones you shouldn’t bend over backwards to tell in person! It’s not reasonable at all. You want to give notice as soon as you can without putting anyone out in the end. I wouldn’t put it off once it’s a firm launch date, do it on the phone and then opt for email if that doesn’t work.

      They know this is how it works when they’re out of the office and don’t get a lot of face time with you!

      I honestly don’t care in the end, resigning with plenty of notice is all that really can be asked for in the end. I roll my eyes heavily at the idea that we need to do it specifically in person. Just do it professionally, don’t play games, etc. “I am resigning from my position effective June 17th. I’ve taken a new job and would like to work with you to work through our transition period!” boom boom boom.

      It’s nice if you can stop by someone’s office or schedule a sit down meeting but it’s just that. Nice. Not required. Anyone who burns a bridge over it being over email instead and has a hectic schedule is a beast.

    11. Bluebell*

      I wonder if #2 would be easier for your two bosses, in that they could touch base before your joint meeting and discuss transition with each other? Once I gave notice during a mid year evaluation check-in and told my boss before she started her remarks. Sadly, she couldn’t resist telling me that she had been planning to give me negative feedback, and that she was planning to hire someone over me. So it looks like I got out just in time!

    12. Thankful for AAM*

      Why not meet with or call your direct boss as soon as you have a formal offer and know you will accept it? Why do both have to be there for you to give notice? Your direct boss can tell the other or ask you to.

      I would think knowing ahead allows both to get their ducks in a row so that the one time all 3 of you are in the same place, they can focus on transition questions and plans. If they are first presented with your notice they might not be able to shift from review to what do we do mode effectively.

      Also, no matter the review process, I think timely notice is more important than in person notice. We see this in other letters here and the answer is a phone call to an off site direct manager is fine.

  8. Not So Super-visor*

    TLDR:how to handle feedback from a difficult employee
    Long version: I have an employee with several performance issues. To complicate things, he is entitled and condescending. He’s told me how to do my job, other employees how to do their job, and even other managers how to do their job even though he started this position with zero knowledge of the industry. We’ve had multiple discussions. I’ve even shut him down on one occassion and told him he needed to rephrase things when he told me that I “owed” him something (the gender dynamics and the gist of the whole conversation was way off). He is the kind of person who you have to be very direct with feedback otherwise he only hears the good. My big boss made this mistake when giving feedback but tried to soften it by saying he knew that his “heart was in the right place.” Several times when I’ve brought up the reoccuring issue, he tells me that big boss knows that his heart is in the right place. I was there for the conversation… that wasn’t the point.
    Since we are a coverage-based position, we have general times that certain tasks should take. This employee frequently ignores this and most tasks take much longer than they should. The other week, he was marked as working on a certain task, but I could see that he had already taken 3x the time he should have taken on it. I was on a conference call, so I sent an IM telling him that he needed to wrap up X task because the Y tasks were overflowing and more important. I could see from across the room in our open office setting that it popped up on his screen. Ten minutes later, he was still working on low priority task X. I excused myself from my call, went over to his desk, and (admittedly somewhat angrily) told him that he needed to wrap up X now and jump into the Y queue. He made an excuse that he was trying, but I insisted that he needed to wrap it up. He did so. I reviewed his task the next day, and I realized that it was a similar situation to something that we discussed before and that he should have escalated it to the correct team without handling it. I called him into big boss’ office to find out why he hadn’t escalated since we’d talked about this. He made various excuses that big boss shot down, and since he was getting any where with big boss decided to point out that he didn’t “appreciate” my “tone” when I came to talk to him. Big boss again did not cave in and told him that this is the last time that we’re discussing this issue without a PIP being created.
    So here is where I am: I admit (now) that my tone was somewhat hostile and that I shouldn’t have let my frustration get the better of me. If this was someone in my personal life, I’d apologize, explain why I was frustrated, and thank them for calling me on my attitude. I don’t think that I can do that in this situation given his overall attitude towards pretty much everyone. Should I just suck it up and be the better person? Thoughts? Advice?

    1. hbc*

      Don’t apologize. You know that he’ll take that as an admission that He Is Right and You Are Wrong even if you spend 5 words on the apology and 500 words on how badly he’s screwing up.

      And frankly, he earned that tone. If complains about it again, you should tell him that he can avoid hearing it by not ignoring you when you give him direct instructions.

      1. Grey Coder*

        Agree 100%. He started talking about your “tone” because he knew he was in the wrong on the facts and was trying to derail the conversation. Don’t let him.

        1. Campfire Raccoon*

          Exactly! Him bringing up “tone” is a COMPLETE deflection of responsibility. It’s just something for him to get his teeth into.

          1. Amethystmoon*

            Tone is a thing generally used on women who dare to disagree with someone who has more power than them. Seriously, has it ever been used in any other way?

    2. Jedi Squirrel*

      I only got to the end of your first paragraph when I thought “This employee needs to be fired.”

      Make sure you have all of this documented, and don’t worry that your tone was somewhat hostile. This employee isn’t doing his job properly, he should have been on a PIP a long time ago, and it’s perfectly okay to Not Be Completely Friendly when you have to tell someone repeatedly to do the thing they are supposed to be doing.

      1. Fikly*

        100% agree. Attitude is a work performance issue! If someone is doing all their job tasks right but is a nightmare to work with, they should be fired. This person is doing tons of their job tasks wrong and is a nightmare to work with, why do they still have a job?

    3. Havarti*

      Honestly even without the attitude, he doesn’t sound like a great employee work-wise. PIP him or fire him. Apologizing to him means he’ll only hear he was right and you were wrong. Ideally we should be nice but he needs to pull his own weight too and it sounds like he’s not and he tried to wiggle out of that by making this about your tone and not why he didn’t do the thing in the first place.

    4. SC in NC*

      Why have you not already terminated this employee? Let’s look at it another way, if he walked into your office tomorrow and said he was leaving the company would you be glad? Do you think you could find someone markedly better?

      Right now you have an under performing employee who is entitled and condescending to you and his fellow employees. If you REALLY think he can turn this around he needs to be on a PIP yesterday. If not, it may be time to cut your losses and move on. Not everyone can be rescued.

      1. valentine*

        Why have you not already terminated this employee?
        Even if they didn’t let you replace him, aren’t you spending more time chasing him, and the team waiting for him to do his job, than any of you would on picking up the official slack?

        If he struggled with inertia,he would be finding ways to get x out of sight so he doesn’t have to tear himself away. Instead, he’s insubordinate, retaliatory, and derailing.

        I don’t see the point of giving him so many chances pre-PIP and I hope nothing else will deter you from it. However, what are you going to do if he improves enough to survive the PIP? Can it include a clause for when he gets back into his skiving mood?

        What if you exclude him from x and have him only do y? Because if he only has y to do, let’s see how well he does it and what new and pedestrian excuses he can make for not doing it.

    5. Holy Moley*

      Do not apologize or suck it up. He is an employee who was told to stop doing X for Y. He didnt do it. Frankly, you should have put him on a PIP that day if this is an ongoing problem.

    6. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      “We expect that Task X takes # minutes. If it goes over that, it may have needed to be escalated. Here’s the training materials that outline the process. Task Y is higher priority. If asked to drop Task X for Y, either it gets escalated, put aside, or finished in no more than # minutes.
      Do you have questions about our process?
      No?
      OK, so it won’t happen again, and we can move forward.”
      Rinse, repeat, and document for the PIP.

    7. Emilitron*

      Maybe he didn’t appreciate your tone; but you’re right that telling him “sorry I did that” won’t help you or him. So how does one really truly apologize? You recognize the faults, you make plans to do better, you change your habits, and you make efforts to avoid doing it again. It’s widely accepted that saying “sorry I did that” with no plans to change isn’t helpful; so flip it around, and since you know telling him “sorry” isn’t helpful anyway, just plan to work on not expressing frustration with all your OTHER employees. Take a minute to thank him for calling you out so that others can benefit from it, and maybe you’ll also show less frustration with him too. But don’t let the social dance of “he said he didn’t appreciate, therefore I must now apologize” get in the way of this guy understanding that he needs to change his ways.

    8. InsertCleverNameHere*

      I wouldn’t go to this employee but it might be something to discuss with Big Boss, and that what you’re going to take away from this challenge is working on how to moderate your tone better. It sounds like you didn’t need this employee to tell you your tone was inappropriate so this isn’t a case where taking the employee’s feedback is really the point. In discussions about his performance, the discussion is about HIM and not about you. It’s up to your manager to discuss your performance with you.

      1. halfwolf*

        i second this. if you feel like he’s right (as annoying as that probably is!), take the feedback internally, figure out how you want to incorporate it, and think about whether it’s worth discussing with your boss. (a one-time slip-up after this much frustration? probably not worth it. if it keeps happening? consider it, at least so that your boss knows it’s something on your radar that you’re working on.)

      2. ten-four*

        Ooh, I’m not sure I’d take pre-emptively claim “tone management” as a failing to your boss. You mentioned that there’s some gender dynamics in play, so I’m going to assume you’re a woman. I agree with the commenter upthread that this guy knew you were right on facts so he shifted to your tone as a way to make this a “both sides” problem. Why would you take his defensive comment as feedback delivered in good faith?

        This guy sounds like a bad employee who should be fired. I don’t see any reason for you to take his word for it that the real lesson here is for you to be nicer, and there are definitely downsides to planting the idea that you have “tone” problems with your boss. Lots of people have deep-seated issues with competent women in authority – no need to assign yourself a sexist label.

        I think the commenter who said you could take it as in internal note to moderate tone has the right idea, and I do agree that if your BOSS thinks you need to moderate your tone then that’s something to pay attention to. But I bet real money that if you talked to your boss about this and said “I want to loop back to this – I was short and frustrated, but not loud or hurtful. Did I hit the balance right, or should I rethink?” the boss will tell you that you did the right thing.

    9. Oh No She Di'int*

      I am 100% certain this employee is going to end up fired. I say that with such certainty because that seems to be the direction it’s going AND you seem to having the backing of your boss. So this guy is history. It’s just a matter of time. For that reason, don’t worry about apologizing. Just document everything so that the inevitable firing is as smooth as possible.

    10. LadyByTheLake*

      Oh Pul-EEZE. This is a terrible, rude belligerent employee who should have already been fired and you are worried about your tone? This guy is gaslighting you — don’t fall for it.

      1. Clisby*

        Seconded. It sounds like your tone was because of your frustration with HIS deliberate disregard for what you’d told him to do. Now, if you had expressed frustration because, earlier that morning, your teenager drove you to the brink of madness and you hadn’t had time to stop seething – THEN you’d owe him an apology.

    11. Blueberry*

      Have you heard of the Tone Argument wrt to political discussions? He’s pulling it in real life with you as a last-ditch method to discredit everything you’ve tried to say to him.

      Good luck dealing with this person. Ugh.

    12. Jules the First*

      This is (somewhat flippantly, but also somewhat not) why Catholics have confession. You did a slightly bad thing when badly provoked. You have confessed your bad thing (to the AAM forum) and expressed your genuine remorse for doing the bad thing. You are forgiven and there is no need to apologise. Hang in there!

    13. CM*

      I apologize for losing my temper when I lose my temper, even if the other person was also wrong.

      I think the more important issue in that your boss is the one who keeps talking to him about his performance and about whether he’s going to be dismissed if it doesn’t improve. That suggests to me that you don’t have the power to fire him, which means you can’t really manage him. Not because you should threaten to fire people as a way to make them comply — because, if you want this guy to do A and he wants to do B, and you’re just stuck with him no matter what he decides, you effectively have no way to change what’s getting done, since the only way you COULD change it would be to replace him with someone willing to do A.

      The way you describe the situation right now, it sounds like you’re maybe supervising some of his work, but he’s reporting to your boss and not you. If that’s the way it’s supposed to be, and you’re not held accountable for his work, then, fine. Just keep reporting what he does to your boss and don’t worry about whether he changes his behaviour, because it’s not your problem. But if you’re supposed to be his manager, something’s really wrong with the dynamic right now, because you don’t have the power to do your job.

      And, I think sorting out that problem, no matter which answer it is, will help you not lose your temper in the future. Because either you’ll have the power to do something about the situation or you can mentally take a step back and decide it doesn’t matter if he does what you asked him to do, because it’s your boss’ job to deal with him if he doesn’t.

    14. Panthera uncia*

      Would a man apologize to this guy? I doubt it. He was directly insubordinate. Stop worrying about being nice, and worry about being effective.

      1. Thankful for AAM*

        Bingo to that is the tone when an employee is insubordinate multiple times and has been given clear direction about it.

        And I would say that directly if he says any thing to you again about your tone. “I’m not surprised you noticed a strong tone of disapproval in my voice, that is the tone of a manager speaking to an insubordinate employee after multiple discussions about the issues.”

        Now if you yell and ranted and raved and generally made a scene, that was too far (but I hope you had fun!)

    15. learnedthehardway*

      Don’t apologize – if your exasperation showed, and all the employee noted was that you were exasperated with him, by failed to acknowledge that you have a real reason for being exasperated, then he hasn’t even now gotten the point. Besides which, the employee was trying to deflect from being the person on the carpet for their performance, not really trying to express that they were offended by your attitude.

      If you apologize, the employee is just going to take it as carte blanche to continue their behaviour.

      Instead, I would suggest that being considered a hard ass is the way to go – you can apply the carrot when the employee does something worth praising.

    16. so many questions*

      Don’t apologize. This guy should be apologizing to you, and he’s just trying to flip that as a power move. Don’t give him that, he doesn’t deserve it!

    17. Not So NewReader*

      “Should I just suck it up and be the better person? Thoughts? Advice?”

      What-the-what! NOOOOO.
      Do NOT apologize.
      If you do, then you will see that it:

      1) Undermines what your boss is trying to do.
      2) Undermines yourself.
      3) Does nothing as he will not change.
      4) Causes him to declare open season on you and pick at everything you do.

      There are proper ways of showing anger and there are practical uses for feelings of frustration. My suggestion is that instead of doing anything at work, read up on this type of thing at home. Your last paragraph concerns me that you may think that all anger and all frustration is unjustified and that is simply NOT true. It’s how we use that anger/frustration that we need to understand and control. This is not a waste of time, you will find it useful knowledge over and over again.

    18. Mr. Shark*

      Definitely do not apologize.
      If you have a discussion with him again, you can tell him specifically your frustration is because he is not following your instructions, and not meeting your expectations.

    20. Part Time Poet*

      Btw, there is a whole lot of guidance from Alison on this site as to how to handle this employee. Her site is very searchable for these topics. As a devoted reader, I am pretty sure she would ask why you haven’t fired him already. I’m concerned, too, that you are more concerned about your tone in confronting him when he was absolutely in the wrong than you are about firing him to preserve the integrity of the rest of your team and the work that needs to be done. His attitude must also be affecting the rest of your team. What about how they feel about working with him, especially since he seems to be clogging up the work flow with his obstinate behavior?

      I know from personal management experience, that once the disruptive bad apples are gone, the good employees are so happy and much more motivated and productive without the pall of the bad seeds being there everyday spreading their vermin.

  9. Help*

    There is tension between my coworker “Medusa” and I. Ever since I’ve started this position, Medusa has made it clear that she doesn’t like me. Unfortunately, we share a cubicle in a very small space, so moving around is not an option.

    I’ll be working at my desk and Medusa seems to want to rub salt into the wound- she’ll make comments like, “Thank you, John. You’re so nice, unlike SOME people”. She alternates between doing that and ignoring me. (I like the ignoring part better.)

    She’s older than me and often talks to me like I’m a child or talks down to me.

    She and the boss are friends, plus Medusa is the Queen of Manipulation and acts like the victim. She runs and tells the boss everything so I’d still be the one in trouble.

    Unless I magically find a new job and can leave, how do I deal with this? How do you work with people like this? Why do they get away with this?

    1. Leisel*

      She’s making those comments to get a rise out of you, so don’t give her the satisfaction. Do what Alison suggests and think of it as entertainment. Keep a tally of how many times a day she does something like that (if you think that’s fun). If you have 5 tally marks at the end of the day go buy yourself a treat!

      Good luck. I know you’re not in a comfortable spot, so I hope things improve…or you find a better job!

      1. BadWolf*

        And possibly kill her with kindness. “You’re so nice, unlike SOME people.” “Oh no, Medusa, who’s been unkind to you.”

        The risk is that she tells the boss that you’ve been sarcastic to you. So it depends if the boss will believe that, or think such complaints are absurd.

            1. Quill*

              I advise NOT doing a shot of water for every snake in Medeusa’s hair that sneers at you.

        2. Wired Wolf*

          I love that…we have a ‘supervisor’ whose actions would be perfect (we can probably come up with enough variations on his idiocy to make a full game board).

    2. Nanc*

      Be polite. Be professional. Get out of the cube for breaks and lunch. If you’re not allowed to wear headphones try some low-key earplugs in the ear nearest her. Go home and throw darts at her picture.
      The petty part of me would start agreeing with everything she says.
      “You’re so right, Medusa–John is nice! It’s like he’s the king of planet Nice!”
      “You’re so right, Medusa–it’s silly that 2+2 always has to be 4! This is the 21st century–it should be whatever we need it to be to make the numbers agree!”
      “You’re so right, Medusa–just because I have a degree in and passed the state exam on SKILL I should always defer to your knowledge–you know everything, just like Hermione Granger!”
      Keep job searching. Even if it’s just one application a week, you’ll feel better knowing you’re working towards a good change. Hang in there and let us know how it goes.

    3. Colette*

      I once had a job where a coworker was repeatedly rude and hostile to me, and it was very hurtful. I looked in our manager over one incident, but then I basically decided that I didn’t care what she thought and just minimized how much I dealt with her. Is there any way you can just find her pettiness funny? I mean, comments like “you’re so nice, unlike some people” are pretty petty. What if you just decided you didn’t want the good opinion of someone like that?

    5. Holy Moley*

      Im curious, have you tried talking to her to see why she doesn’t like you? Ignoring you sounds nice but she still needs to be professional in a work setting. Has she given some lame excuse?

      I think they best way to deal with it would be to kill her with kindness, thats what Im currently doing with the office grouch and she seems to be warming up. Im always professional with her, greet her cheerfully, and then I move on.

      The only suggestion I have is to keep your head down, do well on your work and look for lateral moves out of that cubicle.

      1. RedLineInTheSand*

        “I think they best way to deal with it would be to kill her with kindness”

        This reminded me of a comedy sketch, but I don’t know who to credit:

        Kill her with kindness, sure, but wouldn’t it be easier to use a knife? And maybe just call your knife, “Kindness”

        LOL

    6. Mel_05*

      This is an obnoxious way to have to deal with this, but I find it very effective.

      I’m insanely nice.

      It makes it impossible for stuff to stick to you and as an added bonus – jerks HATE it. But decent people who were accidents being jerky will feel guilty and become nicer.

      To be clear, this is not my natural state of being. I am sarcastic and impatient. But, this is how I handle jerks and it’s worth it.

      1. miss_chevious*

        I do the same! I am also naturally sarcastic, and I find the Turning On The Nice really satisfying in a petty and Not Nice way.

    7. Merci Dee*

      Yeah. This behavior speaks absolute volumes about the kind of person Medusa is, and says nothing about you as a person at all. Chances are good that the other people in your office are aware of her tactics and realize that you’re nothing but the most convenient victim.

      Good luck!

    8. qtippyqueen*

      I have a coworker who is certainly related to Cruella De Vil. She has a similar style to Medusa.
      I just have to keep telling myself I need to be kind and professional, because I am a kind and professional person. They are probably a deeply unhappy person. They have to live with that 24/7. You just have to deal with it at work.
      And sometimes just laughing internally at how outrageous or ridiculous they can be helps. Also kickboxing and imagining their face as a target helps :).

    9. BadWolf*

      I don’t know if I’d be brave enough to do this, but maybe indirectly call her on it. Say on a Friday, “Hey Medusa, I feel like we got off on the wrong foot from the beginning. I’m sorry about that. Maybe on Monday, can pretend that we’ve started over?”

      I mean, if she’s a total jerk, nothing will probably change. But it’s possible it will startle her out of her habits (and she’ll probably direct them elsewhere).

      I had someone that was really annoying to me do this to me and, friends, it worked. I felt bad that my annoyance was coming through and I appreciated they had the self awareness to realize something was going on and possibly caused by them. I named the top thing that was bugging me. And our relationship was much better. Caveat: We worked remotely from each other, so the scale is a lot different than officemates.

    10. Threeve*

      When I’ve worked with awful people, my mantra is: I’m so glad I’m not her. Being her must be horrible.

      Try to retell the story to everyone you can. If you haven’t been there for very long, mention to your boss how well you’re getting along. “Oh, I know she’s used to having her own space, and would prefer I’m not right on top of her, so I totally get why she’s sometimes not the happiest with me. But on the whole I think we’re getting used to sharing the cube, and I do really like her!”

      Pretend to everyone that you think all the witchiness doesn’t bother you (she’s not a complete a-hole, just a crankypants sometimes!) and it will seem weird and unkind for her to keeping indicating that she sincerely dislikes you when it’s obviously all on her end.

      Even to Medusa, if the opportunity arises: “It’s hard to share such a small space, but it’s great that we’re finally starting to adapt, isn’t it?”

      You’ll back her into having to agree to minor frustrations but overall okay-ness, or into openly saying what she’s so far been passive-aggressive about.

      You can’t do anything about her behavior, but you can try to control the narrative.

    11. inoffensive nickname*

      I think I would feign pity and sincerity and say, “You shouldn’t be so hard on yourself, Medusa. I think you’re very nice, in spite of what everyone else says.” I’m guessing her response would be highly entertaining.

      1. Auntie Social*

        “Me?? Why Medusa, I’m as nice as I *can* be” (the implication being that if she weren’t a raging beeyotch you could have nice personal interplay). Follow with large fake smile (this is optional).

    12. CM*

      You could just embrace your new identity as Medusa’s nemesis and decide you don’t want her to like you. If you can get there, mentally, it can actually be kind of fun — like Reputation-era Taylor Swift deciding she’s a snake.

      If that’s not how you feel, though, it’s harder.

      I think one way to approach it would be to actually say to Medusa, “I get the feeling you don’t like sharing a cube with me.”

      At that point, if she indicates that she doesn’t, you can calmly talk about whether there are options to switch cube mates (especially if she has more clout and influence than you do). See if she’d rather switch, if she thinks there’s someone she could ask to switch, etc. If she indicates that it’s impossible to switch cubes, then you say, “I guess we’re stuck with each other, then. Could you stop [doing whatever she does/saying whatever she says that makes you feel unwelcome]?”

      If she says something sarcastic about how she’s thrilled that you’re there, say, “It sounds like you’re being sarcastic.” And then explain that when she talks to you like that, it makes you feel unwelcome, but, if that’s not how she feels, then you must have misunderstood. And then, when she says and does the stuff she says and does from that point forward, you can point it out and say, “This is an example of the stuff I was talking about. When you say [whatever it is] I feel like you’re trying to tell me you don’t want me here.” The goal in this case is to make her have a tedious conversation about her intentions every time she does it, so that she’ll probably stop.

      If she straight-up says she’s fine with having you in the cube, and doesn’t seem to be being sarcastic (whether it’s a lie or she’s being sincere) you can go straight to saying that, when she says stuff like X, it makes you feel like she doesn’t want to share a space with you, and then call out examples in the moment, similar to above.

      1. SlippingTheLeash*

        I like this. Also handy is:
        “Thank you, John. You’re so nice, unlike SOME people”
        “I don’t understand, Medusa — what do you mean?”

        Make her say it.

        1. anonymouslee*

          That seems weird when she’s not talking to you. If I were John it would come off strange that you were interrupting with that and taking it personally.

    13. HM MM*

      Some people have already suggested stuff similar to this, but I frame it (for myself) in a specific way:

      Play dumb. Dumb and harmless is vibe I go for. I pretend like I didn’t hear or don’t understand their snide comments. Or agree with them/refuse to engage or acknowledge the barbs. (ex: Me: Where can I get the purple folders? Medusa: I’d think someone who’s been here for two years would know something like that. Me: *blank face with half smile” Oh, well, guess I missed that. So where are those purple folders? *big smile* – or “Yep, my memory is awful. So purple folder?”).

      People do stuff like this to provoke some sort of reaction out of you. If you don’t give them the reaction they’re hoping for 9 out of 10 times they’ll get bored and cut it out. At least with the actively obnoxious stuff. I also frame it for myself as: isn’t it hilarious how easy it was for me to convince this jerk that I’m a ditzy smiling idiot. The jerk thinks they’re alpha/”in charge” one, but I’m actually the one manipulating them. An they don’t even know it.

    14. Mina, The Company Prom Queen*

      Document, document, document. Definitely document every time Medusa is rude to you, etc. That way, if she ever tries to play the victim and run to the boss to tell on you, you can send Boss your documented interactions with Medusa. Be sure and mention that her rudeness and unprofessional behavior make you uncomfortable and keep you from focusing on your job. Medusa sounds absolutely vile.

    15. Minimax*

      Are you sure she is friends with the manager? If yes you have a manager problem more then a coworker problem!

  10. Freelancing LLC*

    Has anyone started an LLC (or similar) for freelancing or contract work? A new freelancer at my FTP position won’t stop raving about the benefits of working under her own business. As a freelancer myself who often works through a temp agency, I always thought it seemed like an unnecessary layer of complication. Experiences?

    1. Oh No She Di'int*

      I started out as a freelancer. Eventually I found that I could not handle all the business coming my way, so I started an LLC to facilitate the process of hiring subcontractors and helpers. That eventually morphed into a “real” business with 8 full-time employees. That’s not the right path for everyone, but I have definitely enjoyed it. What specifically does your coworker say is so great about it?

      1. Freelancing LLC*

        What specifically does your coworker say is so great about it?

        She really touts the tax benefits. She has multiple endeavors, so some of her jobs are just her providing a service that takes place in an office environment, while others involve her doing creative performances and paying out to other artists who assist her. (Say, something like doing voice-overs for corporations while also singing in a band.)

        I only do the office-style freelancing, not the creative stuff, so I’m not sure if it’s worth it on my end. I also only work solo; I don’t have any interest in subcontracting or hiring my own employees.

        1. JessicaTate*

          So your question is freelancing as an employee of a temp agency (you get a W2 from the agency) vs as an independent contractor (you get a 1099 from the client – regardless of whether you are an LLC), right? Those are two very different situations, and you’d have to sit down and do the math to figure out if there’s a benefit for you.

          If you switch, you take on the administration side that I assume the agency handles (billing, contracting, etc.), as well as being responsible for paying the employer share of federal employment taxes (about doubling what they take out of your paycheck), managing your estimated payments, etc. If there are any other benefits you get from the agency (PTO, insurances – a long shot, probably), you’d be responsible for those now too.

          On the flipside, you would presumably be able to charge more than the hourly rate on your current paycheck. The temp agency is charging a fee on top of whatever you make – at the very least, you could expect that you could get that amount. And you would now be able to write off any business expenses that aren’t reimbursed by the client on Schedule C of your taxes – where you report business income, expenses, rather than through the W2/wages section. (Do you have a lot of expenses?) However, when I started needing to do a Schedule C, I realized the base software (e.g., Turbo Tax) was more expensive.

          So, I think the basic question is whether this is true:
          Higher Hourly Rate + Business Expenses you’re “eating” now – $$ of Employer Tax Responsibility – Your Time of Administering the Business Side > Hourly Rate as Employee of Agency + Not Worrying about all of this?

          The Single Member LLC is generally just a legal protection, not a taxation thing. You’re still a sole proprietor from a tax p.o.v. Unless you opt to be taxed as an S-Corp or C-Corp – which is way beyond what you need.

          1. Natalie*

            If your Schedule C is still easy enough that you’re self-preparing you might look at FreeTaxUSA. I switched after having a small heart attack over how much more Intuit thought a Schedule C should cost.

        2. Ask a Manager* Post author

          Hmmm, there aren’t any tax benefits to having an LLC. Do you know what she means by that?

          (I have one and it makes no difference; I really don’t need one other than that in Virginia it allows me to buy my own employer health plan instead of having to use the marketplace, and that has been amazing.)

          Maybe she means she’s making more money working as a 1099 contractor, but you don’t need an LLC to do that.

          1. Oh No She Di'int*

            Right. In fact, that’s part of the point of an LLC. It’s a pass-through entity, so from a tax perspective, your business earnings are considered identical to personal income.

    2. LadyByTheLake*

      There are trade offs. I switched from working through agencies to having my own LLC:
      Upside: My income immediately tripled (and in recent years is five times what I made previously).
      Downsides: I went from being an employee of the agency to having to pay the employer SSN contribution and my own health insurance — the health insurance didn’t matter because the agency didn’t supply it. In any event, the increased income easily covered the difference.
      I have to do the billing and collecting — not that much harder because I already had to fill out detailed time sheets for the agency.
      I have to deal with the accounting and stuff, but once I got it set up it is pretty easy.
      I have to get my own clients — not really an issue because I have five main clients who keep me busy.
      Bottom line — going out on my own was very, very good for me, but there were some up front hassles.

    3. MoopySwarpet*

      I have. The biggest (to me) benefit is having full separation for easier tax tracking. I also like the anonymity and degree of separation if there happen to be any legal complications. If you use an agent your name isn’t even tied to it in the public databases. The cost is maybe a couple hundred a year to keep it up if using an agent and under $100 to do it yourself.

      1. CTT*

        Caveat on your name not being tied to it; that’s really dependent on the state you’re in. Some states like Delaware have no information available on their secretary of state website other than the registered agent, some have principal office address + your name out there for free, and all states make that info available for a fee.

      2. Natalie*

        LLCs are disregarded entities for income tax purposes, there’s really nothing about them that would create separation that isn’t achieved by just having separate accounts. Which any freelancer/small business owner should anyway.

    4. Mama Bear*

      I did but then I didn’t have enough work to justify the ongoing costs so I dropped it. It depends on what your goals are. If you prefer the temp agency handle things like taxes, then maybe the LLC isn’t right for you.

    5. AndersonDarling*

      I just break out my freelance income into the Schedule C form when I do my taxes. I can write off my expenses and give Uncle Sam his share. I would only consider the LLC route if I thought I could get sued and needed to protect my personal assets or I had so much income that I needed keep it separate from other income. You may want to start with Schedule C and work your way up.

    6. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      Do you work with a CPA for your taxes annually? It’s best to speak with them, as they know your situation better than we do! It will depend on your financial “stuff”. Your actual overhead and your amount of work, as demonstrated in the comments so far :)

      It’s worth really looking into and seeing if it’s a thing you would benefit from. It is not a one shop stop kind of thing.

      You’re working through a temp agency, so they’re cutting you W2, right? If you’re still a W2 employee, you have no reason to really have an LLC. Cutting out that middle man only works when you’re established in a network. And your temp contract has some fine print about how they can’t just come hire you without going through the temp agency for a certain amount of time, so your network is different in your setup than a true freelancer setup.

    7. dealing with dragons*

      An LLC can protect you personally from lawsuits you business may get. That’s the limited liability part – it can be good as a small line of defense for a small business. My husband has one just to help with the separation of personal and business and to protect our personal assets from seizure if anything would happen, but he doesn’t really use it anymore so it’s moot.

  11. Unsolicited*

    Rant about weird interview

    After participating in a 40-minute phone screening and sending four writing samples, I was invited to 2-hour in-person interview. 

    I spent a lot of time reviewing the company’s website, updating my resume with my most recent volunteering and ongoing educational efforts. I also reviewed the job description for how it aligned with my experience, so I could address any questions.

    All of my efforts proved fruitless because the interviewers decided going through my college experience, including my clubs and internship experience, and every job I’ve had since was the best use of time.  The first 15 minutes of the interview was allocated to asking me about the highs and lows of my college experience from nearly 20 years ago. Each of my positions was vetted and the same strengths and weakness questions were asked at every turn. Then, I discussed in polite terms why I left my last job (serious financial issues). 

    As an added oddity, the CEO came in late and brought with her an outdated version of my resume from when I applied for a lower-level position more than a year ago. The hiring manager had a version of my resume from when I applied this January. I did mention to the CEO that she had an old version of my resume and provided her and the hiring manager with the newest version. Neither used the new information or asked me about the most current experiences. This is the first time I’ve had an interviewer knowingly use an outdated resume as a point of reference during an interview. 

    Only in the last 10 minutes or so was I allowed to ask any questions about the position, the office layout and whether the position was new. A telling fact was that the hiring manager and the CEO could not agree on how to answer. The manager said yes, but the CEO said no and the position was created to “offload work from the manager.”  So, isn’t that a new role then? 

    I took four computerized writing tests (three were 15 minutes and one was 5 minutes) and made casual conversation with the hiring manager at the end of the interview. On my way out, I solicited her advice on what I should continue to study in terms of professional development (SEO, SEM, Google Analytics and AdWords, etc.).  She said being single-skilled was adequate, and I shouldn’t focus on the tech angle too much.

    I left the interview feeling frustrated that after 3 hours and 10 minutes of interviewing I still have no idea about the specifics of the position (salary range, PTO, health insurance, professional development, etc.).  I cannot tell if this type of interview is common for small agencies, 10 employees, who have a single founder in the same role for nearly 30 years. The woman who established the company did so as her second job out of college.

    Any thoughts or commiseration to share? I’m no longer really interested in the position but feeling as though I wasted a lot of time and energy preparing for and participating in two interviews.

    1. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      This may require a big ol’ latte and a muffin for recuperation.

      And if they can’t give you better information at offer time, feel free to make them go through lots of hoops to get you to consider the offer and then tell them no thanks.

    2. it happens*

      They’ve told you who they are, believe them. You wasted some time, annoying, but you can just let them go now. Sorry

      1. Unsolicited*

        Thanks!

        You are completely correct that I now have a much more realistic view of the company and its leadership than the website and social media posts showed me.

        1. Mama Bear*

          This is the silver lining – now you know that it’s not worth applying to their postings anymore and have a story to tell. Very bizarre behavior on their part.

    3. Faith*

      I’d take it as at least an orange flag, because that sounds like a really bizarre interview. Definitely not the norm/common.

      1. Unsolicited*

        I appreciate your assurance that this is an uncommon way to interview. It’s the first time I’ve encountered an interview that started with a detailed examination of my college experience. I didn’t discuss my college classes or clubs this much for my very first job.

        1. Pilcrow*

          The focus on college stuff makes me wonder if they are used to hiring recent grads. That or they got some real bad advice about how college experience predicts job performance or some such nonsense. However, none of that is an excuse to not be flexible enough to change up the interview when you have someone with a few (or many) years of actual job experience to talk about.

          Your experience sort of reminds me of an application process I had where they gave me coding tests (for a non coding job) and had me submit a college transcript when I graduated 15 years prior. All in all they gave off a vibe where they promoted things like having a treehouse over actual benefits in order to exploit recent grads.

          There are yellow, rapidly fading to orange, flags all over the place here.

          1. MT*

            @Pilcrow LOL I definitely work at the company with the treehouse that you are alluding to. I had yellow flags too while applying and interviewing. But luckily, this job has worked out to be great for over three years now! I anticipate staying a long, long time! I just had to laugh at the coincidence. :)

        2. Gumby*

          I had one interview that focused a lot on college like that. It was a third round interview for my first job out of college with the CEO of the start up who had graduated 5 or so years before me from the same school with the same major and the same academic adviser. So it was a lot of “oh, remember such and such class and how Professor X always did thing Y?” But third round interviews at that company were all just informal chats where you essentially had the job unless you said something completely idiotic. (Like the person who said he was thrilled to hear about our flex time because he really was only at his best between noon and 4 p.m. and doubled down upon further questioning that he could totally do the job in 4 hours a day. Um… no.)

    4. Donkey Hotey*

      I’m with @It Happens above.
      Interviews let them see you, but they also let you see them. They have clearly show you their quality.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      If they focused on my college stuff, I would have had to cut the interview short. Just to finish my last two years of college I was commuting up to 100 miles per day. I had so much drive time that my adviser told me to only take 4 classes as the drive would be equal to a 5th class. I did summer classes so I would complete the degree on schedule.
      In an interview like yours I am hosed and I know it. I’d simply explain this and say that it did not seem to make sense to continue the interview.

      Quietly to myself, since I believe that my courses were not that relevant to real world stuff, I would be very concerned about their fixation on college.

    6. learnedthehardway*

      That is so bizarre! I could see asking a recent grad about their college experience, but to do so with an experienced professional is ridiculous, esp. if it means they are ignoring actual recent work experience.

      The fact that the CEO and the actual manager of the role weren’t aligned on the reason the role was open – a) it suggests that there is a problem with communication between them – so what else are they not aligned on? and b) it suggests that there is a story about why the role is open that they haven’t entirely shared with you.

      Personally, I’d give this company a hard pass and keep on looking

      1. Dancing Otter*

        If they weren’t lying, they wouldn’t need to get their stories straight. Something is very fishy here.

    7. Mina, The Company Prom Queen*

      Run, don’t walk, from this potential employer! It’s good that you found this out about them now rather than after you may have accepted a job from them.

    8. Another freelancer*

      These interviewers sounded, uh, unique. If you get an offer from them and you have to take this job because you need a job (I get it, I do), just be prepared to leave in a few months.

  12. Orange Crushed*

    I’ve been applying to academic librarian/library jobs and the job is open for months, but the interview process is fairly short. (ie: I’m being contacted on jobs that I applied for 3-4 month ago, but when they assign an interview time, I only have a couple of days to prepare or they want me to come in the next day!)

    For those in or familiar with academia, is this normal?

    1. Carrie*

      This has been my experience in academia, yes. A lot of hurry up and wait. I think sometimes hiring committees/managers try to combat the slow hiring processes in academia by having tight timelines on the aspects they do control.

    2. Faith*

      Yep! It’s super normal. Our timing more like “you get a week to prepare” not just a couple of days, but so much of the hiring process takes so long because of bureaucratic hoops the hiring committee has to leap through that the one thing we *can* speed up, we do.

    3. Intermittent Introvert*

      Academia has some very distinct busy/slow cycles structured around registration periods and beginnings/ends of semesters . If the job was posted during the busy cycle they couldn’t get to you until things slowed a bit. Then they need to hurry to get done before the busy ramps up.

    4. inoffensive nickname*

      Yep, that pretty much sums it up. Especially if it’s publicly funded. Where I work, the position has to be vacant in order to be posted. So someone can give a 90 day notice and it wouldn’t do the manager any good to try and replace and train the replacement. The replacement position has to be approved by the Board of Trustees, which can take up to two months, because you have to go through leadership and get their approval before it’s even presented to the Board, which meets once a month. I had an opening I knew in August 2018 would be vacant at the end of September 2018. It was approved by the Board in early November, and because of dates of Board and leadership meetings, we have a short time frame to submit our selection to the Board for their final approval. So the whole posting, interview, and selection process can take less than two weeks. It can be frustrating because I believe we miss out on a lot of good candidates because of the way our hiring process is structured.

    5. Policy Wonk*

      I’m not in academia, but in government. For me this is normal. The posting/advertising/accepting of applications is done by HR. Once things move from HR to the hiring manager – me – I want to move! And I am generally given a time limit within which I have to make a selection. I know it’s inconvenient for the applicant. But it’s the system I’ve got. You can push for a different date, but you’ll only get a few days grace, unless you are the sole qualified applicant.

    6. Space Oddity*

      Yes. As another commenter mentioned, the semester system and schedule are part of this– another issue is that you’re only seeing the tip of the iceberg; academic hiring (especially if the librarian positions are faculty rather than staff) often involves a lot of behind the scenes i-dotting and t-crossing that takes place between receiving applications and interviewing, so from the hiring party’s perspective it may not read as a hurry up and wait situation at all.

    7. AnotherLibrarian*

      Coming in the next day isn’t normal. That’s unusual, but within a week or two is perfectly normal. One thing to understand is that the hiring usually happens by committee and there are many many steps before the committee can arrange first round interviews.

      For example, at my current job- there’s an initial screen where every application is read and then decided if they can move into the pool to be reviewed by the whole committee. This can take days when there’s over 80 applicants (as there were for our last opening).

      Next the whole committee has to read the pool and score them on a 5 to 10 question review paper with notes and justifications of each score. Than the committee gets together and discusses favorites. This may take three or four meetings, if there’s contention. Ideally, only two. Then a pool of people to interview is made. Then and only then, can we contact those people. This all has to be done while people are working their normal jobs. So yeah, that can take three months.

    9. TechServices Librarian*

      Yes and no? It can take several weeks to a month or so to review applications, if it’s being done by a search committee. I’d still say being contacted 3-4 month after is not good. I’m at a large R1, and I’d say it might be 6-8 weeks. One reason is candidates are often applying other places so we don’t want to lose a good candidate to another school moving faster.

      It’s very weird to come in the next day. Usually we schedule 2-4 weeks out. Now when it comes to prep for a presentation, our policy is to give the topic one week prior to the on-campus interview. This is so that some candidates wouldn’t have more time depending on the scheduling of their interviews.

      Where are you applying? Local institutions? What level? Community college? Regional? R1? Sometimes that can have an effect on how it’s done.

  13. Keeping up with skills you aren*

    What advice do people have for maintaining skills that they learned through coursework or a previous job that they aren’t actively using now?

    Specifically, if anyone has advice around code languages, but it really could apply to anything. I had actively taken classes in R, python and SQL in grad school, but have only passively used SQL in my current job. I keep saying I am going to keep up with the other languages and improve my SQL skills but I can’t get a system that works for me. Has anyone successfully worked through this either with code or another skill?

    2. Intermittent Introvert*

      I’m not in the field, but curious if volunteering your skills, teaching a community education class, or posting YouTube or blog posts would work.

    3. JacobM*

      It can definitely be tough to find the time, but hobby projects and/or volunteering is a good option. This is because it’s hard to find the motivation if there isn’t a goal (other than “practice”). For your specific skills it might be very cool to approach a nonprofit that does something you’re interested in and would be collecting a lot of data, and ask if they’d like assistance crunching/reporting on/finding trends in that data.

    4. Quill*

      Not coding, as the only skills I have aren’t transferrable (an interface to mod a 1.5 decade old game, a copy paste cheat sheet of ancient HTML) but I do try and keep up with my language skills via various platforms and games…

      Is there any job you could very slightly expedite due to this skill? One of my friends whipped up a handful of randomizers for other friends (names for tabletop characters, novel titles, writing prompts,) when he was learning to code.

    5. Katia*

      First time here
      If you have a bit of spare time, try a side project! I found a lot of simple ideas in Reddit, did a veeeery basic plans with releases and such.
      This makes me practice when i have the time and energy, and gives me a specific goal
      Hope it helps

    6. dealing with dragons*

      build stuff! anything in your personal life you want to keep track of? or something that would help you at work? build it, run reports, etc

    7. Minimax*

      Yes.

      I dont keep up with all the languages outside of work and then i find that when the project that needs them comes i spend maybe 30 minutes getting up to speed. Coding is like riding a bike.

      Current record is 5 years not touching R then using it in a project. Felt like everything came back in 45 minutes.

      The other thing I do is use the programs in projects even if they were not requested at work.

    8. Old13oy*

      You have to use it. Particularly with code. It’s not really good enough to just have the skills from grad school, particularly as grad school gets farther and farther away – languages and tools will change, practices will be updated, approaches to problems will shift.

      The only thing that worked for me is finding ways to incorporate it into my job. If you can get permission to install something like Anaconda on your computer, you can take on a variety of projects around data or analysis that your bosses would likely appreciate. Express the interest to your boss, see if they have something you can spend a couple hours a week on.

    9. AcademiaNut*

      One good option is contributing to open source projects, particularly for python. The projects are volunteer based and the resulting code is free for people to use (ie, you’re genuinely volunteering, not working for free for a company). You can start with small contributions, and work up to more complicated stuff, and are free to choose how much effort you put into it. As a major benefit, you can get feedback on your coding from other participants. And if you’re doing this on github, there is a record of your contributions which can go on your CV as practical, externally evaluated coding experience.

      For myself, I also do hobby coding – I’ve written myself tools for DMing role playing games, for example.

    10. Kate R*

      Have you checked out Kaggle? I stayed away from it for a while because the idea of competitive coding sounds miserable to me, but exploring it a little more, I’ve found it has some courses on Python, machine learning, SQL, and more. I’m not really sure how the competitions work, but I think you can use them as project ideas too, so at least you have something to apply your skills to.

  14. Fulltime + Freelance*

    I am applying to a job about 4 hours (driving) away from where I currently live. While I know I can’t speculate on the rest of the applicant pool, I match very strongly to what they say they’re looking for and would be surprised to not at least get an interview. (I have also attended the organization’s regional conference the past few years and mutually follow some of the staff on social media so I feel like I have a passing level of familiarity with them.) The position is rare, think being on staff designing and creating teapots in a field that usually outsources, and in a niche I have experience working in.

    My question is – I have some ongoing projects/obligations in my current city that I couldn’t just stop if I were to move 4 hours away. From what I can tell, the job includes a fair amount of travel including back to my current city. Obviously, I don’t know the ins and outs, but part of the job is project-based which, in theory, could be done from anywhere and part of it definitely needs to be done from their offices. I believe job interviews are a two-way street I want to make sure they’re as much a match for me as I am for them (especially since it’s outside of my city) and I’m wondering how to bring up my outside projects and see if the travel aspect of the job would allow me some flexibility or, better yet, see if the idea of being able to work partially from my town, part on the road, and part from their offices would be possible? Would this be something to bring up in a first-round interview or save if I were to move forward to a second or in-person round? If it matters, the job is in a particular creative field and so are my outside obligations/freelance projects.

    1. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      I’d leave aside the ongoing projects, and focus instead on whether you could be based from your current home city instead of their city, since you’ll be road-warrioring anyway.

      If they know you live there because your address was on your resume, it’ll probably come up in the first interview because they won’t want to move forward with someone without knowing when you’d be available etc.

    2. Lucette Kensack*

      If it’s a dealbreaker for you, bring it up in the first interview: “I’d like to talk about remote work. I won’t be able to fully move to New City. Would it work for this role if I worked remotely from Current City half-time?”

      If it’s not a dealbreaker — if there are other ways you could make this work, and you’d consider taking the job if they required you to work full-time from their office — you should wait, probably until you have an offer. At that point the conversation would be something like this: “Could we talk about remote work? Ideally, I’d split my time between your office, my current city, and being on the road. Is that a possibility?”

    4. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      Just my experience: Bringing up remote work (supposedly) pushed me out of the running for a job. It’s possible they had other issues with my application, but that’s what they cited. So, be aware of that might be a major issue for them?

      More context of my situation:

      It came up in the phone interview with the hiring manager. They were concerned about the commute (it was a 45 minute commute, standard for this area, but they thought it was too far), so I asked if working remotely a 1-2 days a week was possible. I did say it wasn’t a deal-breaker for me and I was fine with the commute, since I’ve done it before.

  15. YRH*

    I work for a government entity. Recently the HR rep for our department (HR is a completely department at the agency) was hired into a management position in our department (not my team luckily). This seems like a really bad idea. Any thoughts?

    1. Mkt*

      Why do you think this is a bad idea?
      Do you know the requirements for the management position, and the skillset, experiences and background the HR rep brings?

      At face value I don’t see a problem. People make moves from department to department or change career paths all the time without any issue.

    4. YHR*

      He’s now managing and working with people where he was the person who did confidential HR investigations and had access to sensitive information.

      1. Mkt*

        I think you’re making assumption on the professionalism of this individual and how they may conduct themselves and that isn’t fair.

        It’s really up to the leadership team that hired person into that position to review concerns and conflicts of interest. If any of their new direct reports has concerns, those could likely be brought up with another HR rep to discuss as well.

      2. Bernice Clifton*

        I can see that, however, wouldn’t any manager be able to access that kind of info on their reports if necessary? He just happens to already know it.

        1. Mama Bear*

          This is what I’m thinking – my spouse is a senior level manager and is privy to various otherwise confidential (job-related) things about their employees. If an HR rep is able to be discreet at an HR job, they would likely be able to also be discreet when placing someone on a PIP or managing a team that isn’t getting along, or not advertising that someone is dealing with a health issue. I wouldn’t see the previous role in HR as a bad thing on the face of it.

      3. Not So NewReader*

        I would think that information would still be confidential even if he left the job entirely. Confidential is confidential. Part of any management job is guarding confidential information.

        I worked in human services for years. I am fully aware of the problems from talking about my old work. Even though I have left the job, I still can’t blab. (Not that I’d want to! But there are people who have NO filters so they need to be told this upfront. We all got told.)

        My best guess is that if he does spread confidential information he’s in hot water. Being a municipality probably the targeted person might work up a reportable case OR a lawsuit.

        Unless you know he has a history of being a jerk, perhaps you can console yourself into taking the wait and see approach.

        Small consolation, when you handle a lot of confidential stuff it all starts to blur together and sometimes you can’t remember stuff that happened because it’s all one big blur. See, one way we remember things is by talking about those things. If you can’t talk about it, you have less opportunity to reinforce the memory of it.

        And surprisingly, there are so many good people out there. People who witness others going through crap (perhaps even of their own making) YET still hope for the best for the person. It is possible that he knows a bunch of stuff on someone and he STILL hopes for the best for that individual.

    5. learnedthehardway*

      Honestly, it depends on the HR rep’s experience, skills, adaptability, and also what the department needs. It’s not necessarily a bad idea, unless the HR rep doesn’t have the qualifications (or the ability to learn them rapidly on the job.)

      Do remember that some people in HR had prior careers in operations management. And that HR – as a department – has operational aspects to it. ie. this person may have managed a team of people doing operationally oriented things. And, sometimes, familiarity with the challenges of a department is one of the key qualifications for a position, as well.

      I worked for a company once that would put operations managers into HR roles to get them that experience (and to retain them while they were having young families, as the operations of the business were extremely seasonal and had very long hours). It tended to be good for the management of the operations teams they went back to.

      1. learnedthehardway*

        If it’s the sensitive personal information side that concerns you – well, most managers know an awful lot about the issues in their department, anyways. For example, they might not know the specific health concerns of individual employees who are owed accommodation, but they do know those individuals are owed particular types of accommodation, kwim? A manager also tends to know which of their employees is on a PIP (mostly because they put them there), what their employees earn, etc. etc.

        Plus, most HR people are going to have a good idea of the liability to a company if they don’t abide by good HR practices wrt their employees, so you might find the new manager acts better wrt to personal information than someone with purely an operations background. It’ll really depend on the individual.

  16. SadMidwesterner*

    Today my (middle aged, male) boss brought his sick son into work with him and then left him with my coworker and I (young, female) so he could go to a meeting. I just… can’t even being to wonder at this sort of cluelessness.

    1. Zona the Great*

      Wow. I’d love to just take him into the meeting room and say, I think you forgot this. Some people.

        1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

          In my head, I agree, I may jump the inference ladder.

          By outwardly acting as though you assume cluelessness, you give them a chance to save face and make them deal with the problem (or else out themselves as a jackass).

    4. Toads, Beetles, Bats*

      Whatcha want to bet it happened because his wife was like “nope – it’s your turn to deal with the havoc of an unexpected kid-sick-day.”

      1. Bg*

        It’s not his wife’s responsibility to preventing him from dumping his responsibilities on his subordinates. He misused his authority.

    5. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      One of my old foreman used to get the bosses kids dropped off for him to watch along with run the place from time to time. *face palm* Sometimes they were sick, sometimes they just had the day off school and needed to be kept busy. I’m sorry this is still a thing :(

    6. Policy Wonk*

      Depending on how big your company is, I’d go to HR about this. The company isn’t paying you to babysit sick kids. Now that he’s succeeded once, he will likely try it again.

    7. Fake Old Converse Shoes (not in the US)*

      There was an employee who brought his teenager to work for about a week. The kid in question spent most of the day in the playroom, keeping the Switch for himself, and occasionally wandering around our open space. Apparently there were complaints about the unauthorized visitor, because we didn’t see him the following week.

      1. annakarina1*

        A teenager should be able to know how to entertain themselves and not get in the way.

        My mom occasionally brought me to work (she worked as an occupational therapist in a school) when I was around eight or ten for whatever reason. She would just have me stay in a playroom and I’d busy myself with toys while she worked with other kids, and sometimes brought the kid to the playroom, where she’d work while I’d play and stay out of the way of the other kid’s therapy session.

  17. merp*

    Y’all, we have a ghost. Chairs moved around overnight in the reading room when we’re closed, lights left on after they were turned off in the closed stacks. Since I also had a weird unexplained thing happen at home, I’m wondering now if I brought it to work.

    This probably all has a reasonable explanation of course, but my coworkers and I are having fun deciding which of the subjects of our archival collections would be most likely to cause some mischief.

    1. anon24*

      Ooh so fun! I love work ghost stories! My favorite thing is the Halloween open thread.
      Maybe someone (alive) is living there overnight :)

      1. merp*

        I have been thinking of the halloween thread all day! I do hope someone’s not living here though, that would be… unsettling. More comforting somehow to think that some of the civil war soldiers or historical state officials whose papers we have were having a party.

    2. Nita*

      Are your lights motion-activated? That might explain why they’re turning on. Only, that doesn’t explain what’s moving that’s setting them off. Hmmm.

      Funny, just had an unexplained lights situation at home last night, so maybe I’ll be bringing it to work too!

    4. Nanc*

      I once worked in an old, old building where the alarm kept going off randomly during business hours as well as when we were closed. The security company was going nuts trying to figure it out as we were close to getting a fine from the PD. They finally found out it was because a spider had built a web across a motion detector in a little-used part of the building and was setting that sucker off! So the admins had a new task–every evening just before we closed check that area and dust off any spider webs!

    5. Watry*

      This is completely unrelated but none of my local libraries have reading rooms and that makes me very sad. I would totally accept a reading room with a ghost.

      2. Lunch Lady*

        Me too! Wondering if I can hire a sneaky ghost to scare away the other patrons from the reading room at my local library. Sadly, many of them are quite smelly and with the bad ventilation I usually leave with a headache. A ghost could solve my problems.

    8. Anonnington*

      I would review the security cameras if you have any to make sure no one’s entering without permission. For safety’s sake, please rule that out. As harmless as it sounds, there could actually be a risk to the staff or to the person doing this.

  18. Aurora Leigh*

    What sort of spring/summer shoes do you guys wear to work?

    I’m late twenties female and need something comfortable to pair with skirts when the weather warms up. I wear Klogs with slacks and I love them but they are a little clunky.

    I have bunions and a narrow heel, so that complicates things.

    1. merp*

      I feel like they get mentioned every time someone asks about shoes in this site but: Rothy’s, if they work for you and you want to spend the cash. They hold up and stay looking nice, and I love that the rain doesn’t ruin them.

      1. londonedit*

        I would *love* to try Rothy’s but a) they’re not available instore anywhere in the UK so I feel like it would be a huge hassle to order and then find they don’t fit and b) they are sooooooo expensive. Like £135!

        I usually wear some form of ballet flats or sandals in the summer – either Clarks for the flats or Salt-Water sandals. Or just about everyone in London wears trainers with midi dresses in the spring/summer.

        1. merp*

          Yeah, I had the benefit of trying on a friend’s for sizing, as well as her $20 off code. Even with that they were still pricy. I do feel like it’s impossible to damage them though, so at least they’ll last a long while.

        2. Senor Montoya*

          Clarks are nice! I don’t have any right now (wore them out, which is saying something because they’re so well made).

        3. Fikly*

          Any shoe is going to be less expensive than bunion surgery – although maybe not on the NHS?

      2. Panthera uncia*

        Rothys have a serious stank problem. I’ve tried them barefoot, with Peds, and with hosiery. Even after one wear, they’re eye-wateringly smelly, and I’m not someone who sweats profusely. Washing them after every use is inconvenient and wears them out quickly.

        1. ALM2019*

          I live in Rothys – but had the same issue. I buy cotton shoe inserts from amazon and take out the ones that come with the shoes. Throw the cotton ones in the laundry every two weeks or so and no smell!

        2. Reali-Tea Check*

          So glad I am not the only one! They literally started smelling like death. I wore them to a conference and then took them off and drove home barefoot and my car REEKED for days!

    2. alacrity*

      Rockport Cobb Hill Aubre t-strap sandals. They cover the toe (I don’t always get pedicures) and avoid the annoying “slap-slap” of slides. My go-to for summer.

    3. many bells down*

      You’re gonna laugh but… Crocs makes actual flats that are super comfy. I have some pointy-toe slingback ones that no one ever believes are crocs. They’re also the shoes I go to when my PLANTAR fasciitis flares up because it doesn’t hurt when I wear them.

        1. Leisel*

          A little off topic, but I got my mom a soft “yoga ball” for Christmas to roll her feet around on when she’s watching TV in the evening. She said it really helped with her plantar fascitis. If you Google that you’ll get a lot of options, but they’re usually around $15 for a set.

      3. Aunt Piddy*

        I have so many pairs of cute crocs flats!! The pointy toe slingbacks are so cute and comfy with slacks or skirts in the summer.

    5. Dust Bunny*

      Nice flats or loafers, depending on how formal you need. I like T-straps and mary janes because I have narrow heels, too, and straps help everything stay on better. Look for a brand like Bass or Clarks that have good, sturdy, soles and foodbeds.

      I had a pair of openwork oxfords years ago; would love to find another of those.

    6. Natalie*

      Dansko makes pretty comfortable flats – they look very ballet-flat-like, but have an actual sole and support, and aren’t too terribly expensive.

      1. JessicaTate*

        I second Dansko shoes. They have lots of varieties all of which have pretty good support. I have some flats that have some criss-cross straps over the arch (so, for a narrow heel, less issue with slipping out of them). They are maybe a tad bit more casual than dressy flats, but the foot support in them is SO much better, and they work with pants or skirts or dresses.

        I’ve also had some luck with Abeo shoes. For shopping, I recommend the Walking Company if you have one nearby – all of these brands in one place.

        1. Amy Sly*

          Abeos are a Walking Company exclusive brand, so you won’t find them anywhere else. They often have the best selection of Danskos of any store I’ve been in/worked in, including comfort boutiques.

      2. voluptuousfire*

        Third Danskos. I can’t speak for the flats but the clog-soled shoes they have, definitely. I wear Dansko Barbaras and have them in 3 different colors. They’re comfy, have a wide toe box and stiff-soled.

        1. voluptuousfire*

          Actually, I can speak for the flats. The pair I bought and returned had a very short toe box. My toes were banging against the front when I walked a few steps.

    7. Alex in Marketing*

      I really love a good pair of loafers.You can get them in materials that are either structured/stiff or soft/flimsy, depending on what is most comfortable for you. I have a few nice pairs from both Calvin Klein and Tahari that I’ve bought at TJ Max, Nordstrom Rack, or on Poshmark. Plus, loafers are very stylish right now!

      1. Daisy-dog*

        Yes – loafers are very “in” right now. I got some blush, suede ones from Target.

    8. Honoria Glossop*

      It depends on your office, but mine is a little casual so I can get away with “fancy” slip on sneakers in spring and fall. I have some nice suede-y type ones in a neutral color. For summer, I go with some strappy flat sandals. The sandals tend to be leather-looking and I try to avoid any that make a noticeable flapping noise, so no flip flops.

    9. Mama Bear*

      I personally try to keep my toes covered. I’m a fan of ballet flats, which can be various types of material from solid fabric to leather to something decorative with holes (for sweaty summer feet). Sketchers also makes flats that are very comfortable but more supportive than cheap flats (I believe the line is called Bikers). No one has ever given me grief about wearing them.

    10. Quill*

      I wear the same hiking boots or sneakers I always wear, yay for medical accomodations.

      I only wish I was comfortable enough with the attention it might bring to wear the tennis shoes with skirts or dresses…

      If I didn’t need a new personal laptop and a bunch of wardrobe essentials I’d be seriously thinking about getting some doc martens and risking that they wouldn’t actually be as comfortable as advertised, just so I could see if they’re a potential avenue for a shoe that’s tolerable and doesn’t scream either “fashion fail” or “These are not functional human feet.”

    11. Senor Montoya*

      Ballet flats. Right now Target has some that are around $20, look for Rebecca pointed toe ballet flats on the target website. The pointy toe may not work as well for you, although they’re comfy across the wide part of my foot. There are rounded toe flats too, I just really like a pointy toe.

    12. Senor Montoya*

      I also have had some sandals from Dansko but those are quite informal and hippie looking, so know your office. Similarly with hiking sandals.

    13. Just this Once*

      Haven’t tried them yet, but a friend with multi feet issues swears by Vionics

    14. SlippingTheLeash*

      Merrell has a Mary Jane called Dassy that works for me. I’m a Danskos/Birkenstocks kind of soul, plus I have a crappy back….so cute and kitten-heeled ain’t gonna cut it.

    15. MassChick*

      Crocs has aline of Mary Janes in several colours. They have toe coverage, a slight heel and are very comfortable – wore them all the time while teaching (where I don’t sit).

    17. AW*

      I’ve had great luck with Ecco sneakers and sandals – comfy, well made, and they look upscale and are very long-lasting.

    18. Dr. Anonymous*

      I was able to buy shoe width stretchers on Amazon with little bumps you can add to stretch a shoe to accommodate your bumpy bits. And I often add a stick-on foam heel insert from the drugstore inside the heel cup to address my narrow heel. I wear Avalon and multiple other brands of wide shoes and often get them online at Zappos, Shoe Mall, or Maryland Square as even with the stretchers I need a wide shoe.

  19. Work From Home*

    To pile on to the Coronavirus questions of this week: I am assuming that at some point during all this I’ll spend a few days working from home, either out of an abundance of caution when I get a cold or a full-out office closure. I’ve always hated working at home because I love having a designated office space, and given that I’m in a one bedroom, I’m going to have to suck it up and work at my kitchen counter.

    SO, I would love advice from similarly work-from-home adverse people on how you’ve made it work.

    1. Nita*

      For some reason I hate using a laptop mouse for work with a passion. I attached a regular mouse to my laptop, and work seems to flow a little better.

    2. Nicki Name*

      Related question: How do work-from-home people work exercise into your day? My company’s preparing us for possibly having everyone work remote for a few weeks at some point. I’m used to getting some exercise by working it into my commute, and I’m worried that my natural laziness will take over if I don’t absolutely have to get out there and walk around.

      1. BadWolf*

        I walk to lunch — but my house is conveniently located in an area where I can walk to a couple different great lunch options. Ironically, I try to bring a homemade lunch to the office…

        Although if we’re all in quarantine, then I guess I’m just walking around the block instead.

      2. Dust Bunny*

        Exercise on your former commute time? Either start or end the work day with (whatever exercise you prefer), or both.

      4. it happens*

        Commute to your house- seriously. Don’t change your morning routine, leave the house fully-dressed, do your morning commute-type exercise sans the non-pedestrian part (maybe adding extra walking to make up for the office-side part of the commute.) Arrive to your home office ready-to-go!
        And then do the same thing for your lunch and close-of-business routines. This way you can set a firm at-work v at-home psychological barrier.

        1. Eleaner*

          I love this, thank you! I just realized this is when I’m most productive on the weekends, when I go out get coffee and come back.

      5. AVP*

        When I started working from home I had to switch to a gym I could walk to. It’s not as nice as the one I used to go to but the barrier of having to “commute” to the gym was just too much for me. So now I end my day around 6pm and walk over there – and usually get home around the same time that my husband does from his commute!

      6. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

        I have a set of pedals under my desk and a couple of low-attention-required tasks I have to do daily, so I pedal while I do those things (and sometimes during meetings, if my webcam isn’t on and I only have to listen). I aim for at least 30 min a day.

      7. Spreadsheets and Books*

        I don’t work at home, but Aaptiv is great! It’s an audio fitness app with live trainers set to music. They have tons of categories, like outdoor runs, indoor runs, straight training, bodyweight, meditation, stretching, yoga, pilates… and a lot of it can be done at home. They also do challenges and team stuff so it’s a lot of fun. I’ve been using it for years and it’s excellent.

      8. AvonLady Barksdale*

        Exercise is a big part of my morning routine, and it’s bigger now that I work from home. I walk the dog every morning for at least 3k steps, usually more (unless we go to the dog park). Until last week I was going to the gym in my building for about 20 minutes of resistance training, but I’m injured so I now do 20 minutes of stretches in my apartment. I also walk the dog for at least 20 minutes every afternoon.

        If you don’t have a dog, you can still take a walk! If you listen to podcasts or even a favorite morning radio show, put on some headphones and walk around your neighborhood while you listen. For example, I listen to a daily podcast for a subject I’m learning, so sans dog I would probably take a walk during my learning time because being at home is less distracting. Make that your “commute”– it will give you some separation between relax-at-home time and work-from-home time.

      9. Fikly*

        Alarms on my phone, to remind myself, because I tend to get distracted and forget. It’s also just a good idea in general for me to move every hour or so, otherwise I end up in a lot of pain, so double reason to do so.

        I live in an apartment building, so sometimes I’ll just get up and pace the hallways for ten minutes with a short podcast on.

      10. Oxford Comma*

        My fitness tracker alerts me if I haven’t moved in a certain amount of time. I literally get up and pace around the house for a few minutes. I do this when I am in the office too. It helps that our bathrooms are on other floors and that our director is too.

      11. AVP*

        Thanks to thinking prompted by this post my company decided to do a LinkedIn post with our guide to working from home! :D AAM in action.

    3. AVP*

      I’m 100% remote, also live in a 1-br apartment and would say that it really depends on your set up. If you need multiple monitors and accessories, it can feel limiting. I can just work from my laptop so I’ll often go to a coffee shop for a few hours just to get out of the house and see the daylight. Sometimes I’ll switch to laying on the bed in the afternoon, again just for a change of scenery. And I keep the overhead lights on when I’m working and switch to lamps when work-time is over.

      One thing you may not need if you’re only WFHing for a few days, but is crucial for longer stints – you need a real chair! Nothing in my apartment was designed for upright sitting for hours at a time, so when a friend was giving away a small-profile Office Chair I jumped on that and it’s made a huge difference.

      You can also try to lean into the little pleasures about working from home – I love making my own coffee and lunch in my kitchen, and the freedom to drop off laundry or dry cleaning during the day is nice. I hate when I have actual paper materials that need a place to go, though – haven’t solved that one yet.

      I love the suggestions to get dressed like it’s a real work day, and even go outside and do a little commute. I’m a terrible morning person so haven’t been able to muster that up yet but I can see how it would be really beneficial.

    4. Do I really want to do this?*

      I would also love some advice from people who normally work from home. Today is my first day working from home ( Seattle). I don’t particularly like working from home, as I get easily distracted. I am also worried about maintain good communication with my co-workers as my work is very team orientated and requires a lot of coordination.

      1. AVP*

        My team has a daily 30 minute call blocked on our calendars for 10am – we don’t actually do it every day but probably 2-3 times a week or if something needs to be discussed. Then we chat on Slack all day and have designated channels for non-work chatting so we get some interaction and water-cooler-talk and don’t feel like we’re derailing work conversations. We use google calendar religiously and can all see each others calendars (and there’s even an integration into slack so I can easily see when other people are in external meetings or calls). We use google drive and Canva so that we can simultaneously edit documents and decks and all work from the same files. If we weren’t set up with these tools, I honestly don’t know how anything would get done. And we don’t need to do a lot of screen-sharing, thankfully.

    5. Constance Lloyd*

      I did not have a designated work space when I worked from home, so I created an in/out routine using… a candle. I lit the candle when work started and blew it out when I signed off for the day. Having that very tiny ritual (which at least changed my experience of the space, of not the space itself) helped me to mentally separate my work time from my home time. After I blew the candle out, I walked to get my mail and could experience the “coming home” moment at the end of the day.

    6. Quill*

      If you have a multiscreen setup at work, and you happen to have an extra TV, computer monitor, or whatever… it helps.

      I tend to default to fewer windows open when I work from home and if I’m going to be doing it more often I *NEED* a cord to get it hooked up so I can accurately move stuff between spreadsheets.

      And this is considering that my tertiary monitor never got hooked up properly and is being used as a notice board for a small herd of post-its.

    7. lilsheba*

      You’re lucky I would give anything to work from home. I much prefer it, no commute, lunches are easier to get, it’s more relaxing in a good atmosphere.

      1. Fikly*

        Someone having to do something that doesn’t work for them isn’t lucky. Humans are individuals who have different needs, and feel best in different situations.

    8. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I have a designated space in my apartment, but I’m also in a building with common areas and wifi– is that an option for you? I like to go to those spaces when I can’t stand to be in my apartment anymore and I don’t need two screens. Unfortunately, these days I’ve been less busy and super tired, so my own TV is more tempting than being “out in the world.” Coffee shops work too, but not if you’re sick, of course!

    9. Cotton Headed Ninny Muggins*

      On the one-bedroom apartment front, I no longer have a dining table. I live on my own, so I put a desk and a good quality chair in the area where the kitchen table would be and I just eat at the breakfast bar. I have to be hard-wired into my internet, so that was a big factor in converting from “dining area” to “office”. I was surprise at how quickly I adapted to work-at-home. I thought I would have problems with attention, but not commuting means much less stress, which makes it a lot easier for me.

    10. Meg*

      I haven’t loved working from home in the past, mostly because I feel like I get more distracted. My job now is the first one I’ve had where that was even an option, and I opted to flex instead. We very recently were given the opportunity to flex and WFH, and I started to take advantage. The biggest shift for me was the realization that if I get distracted and do random things around the house, it ends up being the same amount of time as going to the office kitchen to get a drink and chatting with a coworker. Shifting my perspective let me relax into it a little more and not feel guilty about the interruptions.

      I also find having a defined, reasonable to-do list for the day helps me a lot, separate from my running everything I have to do list. When I’m working 1 day from home (so not this coronvirus situation) there are some tasks that I save up for home, and some that I prioritize doing in the office with 2 monitors. I did get a real mouse, and that helps a lot. I try to pack up my stuff at the end of the day to have a clear end to working instead of that bleeding into the rest of my day (I probably won’t do that if I’m working from home for a longer period of time with coronvirus).

    11. spock*

      This might be obvious, but even if you’re not going to be on a video call, actually get fully dressed when you get up. Not saying you have to pull out the blazers and jewelry but something to separate “in-bed, lounging” mode from “work now” mode. I see a lot of people joking (or not joking?) about like, not wearing pants when WFH and even if there’s no chance for embarrassment, for me it just helps mentally to go through most of my normal morning routine.

    12. Amethystmoon*

      I work at home one day a week. Current set up is I use my gaming monitor with work laptop (HDMI cable), and I also have a wireless keyboard, and a mouse. Actually works pretty slick. I just disconnect my personal laptop, then reconnect it at the end of the day and make sure to put work laptop & charger in a cloth bag to take back to work the next day. (I have issues remembering things before I’ve had my coffee in the morning.) The only issue is I do data entry so for a while, it was weird trying to get papers to stay up to type them. At work, I have a plastic thingy to put them on. I finally sprung for less than $10 a stand for paper that is made of metal. Works well.

    13. Skeeder Jones*

      I work 99% remote and I live in a studio apartment. It’s a fairly good size for a studio, but it is stretched to its limits with needing a permanent office. I work in a field where I don’t need paper to do my job, it’s 100% computer only so I don’t have to worry about that. I basically live without a dining area and have an office area there instead. My desk is the only place in the whole apartment where you can sit with a chair and table so it sometimes needs to do double duty.

      Logistically, the following things are essential for me: docking station with wireless mouse and keyboard, ethernet connection (faster and more stable connection, especially for security reasons) and 3 monitors (I work with about 8 programs at a time).

      Because of the industry (healthcare), I cannot work in a coffee shop or anywhere with a public connection. But I do have the following boundaries so I stay productive: No TV! No working from the laptop on my couch or bed, working from the desk only (partly because I really need the full size monitors and partly because I need to know I’m at work), get dressed each day (ok, this doesn’t mean really getting dressed, it means changing out of lounge clothes I slept in into lounge clothes I didn’t sleep in).

      But working remotely adds so much to my life, it’s easier to get things like laundry done, I gain 3 hours of usable time (1 hr each way of a commute and that lunch hour that I can use for stuff around the house), I eat better because I make more of my own food, I save money because I make more of my own food and also don’t have to buy as many clothes, less gas money, no missed deliveries, etc. The benefits are so great that I gladly give up a spot in my apartment!

  20. Flaxseed*

    Some places call me for phone interviews, while other places call me for in person interviews and skip the phone interviews. Does this mean anything? Or is this just the way they do things?

    1. Mkt*

      Just the way places do things.

      That said, phone interviews are good way to suss out major flags (ie salary expectations) to avoid hassle of in person logistics.

    2. Amy Sly*

      My hunch is that phone interviews are mostly used to help screen down an applicant pool down to a certain number. If the company doesn’t get so many mostly qualified applicants that they can’t interview them all in person, or they just ruthlessly cull from the paper applications, they might not bother with phone interviews.

    3. Oh No She Di'int*

      This has nothing to do with you. Different companies just do things differently. We do a phone screener first to make sure the person isn’t totally off their rocker. Only then do we bring someone in for an in-person interview.

    4. Senor Montoya*

      Can’t speak for everyone, but our latest search we skipped the phone interviews and went straight to in person because:
      1. phone interviews add more effort = the committee has to get together for the phone interview, then has to get together for the in person interview.
      2. Phone interviews add more time/delay = usually pushes everything back a week because you’ve got to do the interviews, decide who to ask/nix, then get the in-person interviews scheduled.
      3. Often the phone interview does not give enough info, or can even be counterproductive, to justify the cost in effort in time. For our most recent search, the committee determined that we didn’t have a small subset of questions that would help us winnow down the list. We also knew we’d get false positives (people who give good phone but in person weren’t what we wanted) and false negatives (people who don’t do well on the phone but would be excellent in person), and we really did not want to eliminate anyone in the latter group. Phone skills are minimally important for the job, and if truly poor, we could train/mentor an otherwise good candidate on those skills.

  21. WorkerBee173*

    How do you bounce back from a bad reputation?

    This is kind of a long story, but I’ll try to keep it short, so if anything’s unclear, feel free to ask.

    I’ve probably been seriously stressed and on the verge of burnout most of my working life. It all came to head a few years ago though, when I got a superviser who hated my guts, and ended up managing me out the door. According to her, I would slack off on the job, work slowly when I did at all, and make too many mistakes. I found a new job, but she made sure that the my ‘reputation’ followed me. Unfortunately, I work in a field with many unknowns, and following her ‘helpful supervision and attempts to improve communication between us’ I eventually wound up in a place where I didn’t, and still don’t entirely, trust myself to write my name correctly three times in a row.

    After trying to fix things myself for a couple of years, I eventually did a major re-evaluation of my life, played the ‘stress’ card, and began the long process of accepting my limitations. I’m not there yet, but I’m getting better. But my professional life is in tatters. I work in a small world, so finding a different job within the same field is next to impossible, at least without my ‘history’ comming out sooner than I’d like. I could try to talk with my current management, but I have no clue what to say. “I’m sorry, but my work is so useless that you should probably not be paying me money” is a really hard message to twist into something actionable that results in a happy ending. At the same time, I’m not keen on moving into a new field: Money is one issue, but more to the point, I actually love my work and my current workplace. I just wish that I could feel useful again.

    So, any and all advice on how to proceed would be welcome. Because I’m lost. If nothing changes, then I will go to management and tell them how things stand, but I can’t help but hope that there is another way. I just can’t see it right now.

    1. MissBliss*

      I can’t answer your first question about bouncing back, but I did want to ask… when you did the re-evaluation of your life, did you do that on your own? Or have you spoken to a therapist? Because it sounds like you might benefit from talking to someone. You say that you want to tell your employer that “work is so useless that you should probably not be paying me money” which, as you say, isn’t actionable feedback, but it’s also really harsh on yourself! It would be more actionable AND more kind if you were to focus on what your strengths and interests are, and how you could bring that to the table with your current employer. A therapist could be very helpful in determining what your strengths are, and helping you to reframe the situation in your head.

      I wish you the best of luck.

      1. WorkerBee173*

        Thank you :)

        Yes, I did go to a stress psychologist for a while, and it helped a lot. But the problem is that I work in an unpredictable field where things go wrong from time to time. Once you have a reputation for sloppy work, then that will always be the first explanation that needs to be ruled out every time things look strange, and they often do.

        The result is that I hardly get any work at all, which makes it really hard to show that things have improved. For every 10 things that go well, there’s always that one thing that looks odd, which confirms peoples worst fears. Moreover, they’re not wrong: For the longest of times, I had a really hard time focusing, I lost ‘the big picture’ and I’d make silly mistakes like adding up 2 + 2 and getting 5. I’m learning to pace myself and my focus is returning, but I’m still slow and I still make the oddest mistakes as soon as I’m tired or stressed. I guess I should be grateful that I’m getting very little work passed to me from others, because it gives me the time to catch my breath and put things in order, but at the same time I feel awful pulling a paycheck every week for essentially working on my own projects when I know that my colleagues are drowning in work. But if I offer to help, they decline … :(

    2. WearingManyHats*

      Have you tried talking to a therapist to help you work through this? They may be able to give you good wording to take to your managers and help you feel better enough to improve your work.

    3. Havarti*

      Oh man, that’s rough. So my first question is: objectively as possible, how are you doing in your current job? You say you don’t trust yourself to write your name correctly 3 times in a row but what kind of feedback have you gotten from your current boss? Because that will determine how/if you address this with them. Do they say you’re slow and making too many mistakes? Are they a reasonable person?

      Secondly, continue to work on yourself. Please consider therapy if you haven’t. This piece: “I’m sorry, but my work is so useless that you should probably not be paying me money” – is this actually, factually true? Because it sounds like the sort of self-esteem issues I’ve had and that’s not a healthy place to be mentally.

      Thirdly, are your job duties too much? Are you still stressed and feeling burned out?

      1. WorkerBee173*

        That’s the thing, I’m not really getting any feedback besides “All’s good, you’re doing great” so to speak. Instead, I learn through back-channels that my projects have been assigned to someone else, and well meaning colleagues come and suggest to me that perhaps it’s time to rethink my occupation, without actually telling me what the complaints are.

        Recently I was given an assignment, but looking it over I realized there’d be method issues: I flagged them beforehand, but was told to go ahead anyway. I turned out to be right, and we had a brief discussion about what could be done different, and I was told to hold off until the issue had been looked at and then … – nothing. I’ve done my own improvements, and these will be included in the report, but I have no idea if anyone will ever read it, or if the whole thing will just be filed under ‘failure.’

        I’ve been using the down-time to work on general improvements that could help others, but I can’t sell them at all. I know from previous experience that people who are highly stressed can be a pain to deal with, so perhaps that’s what’s going on, but the Culture of Nice just seems impenetrable: There is no problem, and therefore nothing to fix. But if all is well, then why have I been placed in a bubble and delegated to the Corner of Oblivion? That’s what I mean when I say that my work is useless, the projects that I spend my time on end up making no impact, and are therefore of no value to anyone but me.

        I want to stress that my workplace is fantastic and my management/colleagues amazing. So the problem seems to lie with my perceived and/or real abilities, and not even I am sure what is what anymore. I can’t help but think that maybe I should dye my hair and change my name, to start a fresh somewhere completely different to see if that’d work … *sigh*

        I just don’t know what to do.

        1. Havarti*

          Hmm, so while you love your work and your workplace, they don’t sound all that great if they’re telling you everything is ok while quietly reassigning your work. Also the fact you flagged an issue and got told to go ahead and then ignored. A great job doesn’t stick you in a bubble in the corner of oblivion.
          So focusing on your job, there’s a few options:
          – You do nothing different and continue collecting a paycheck. There is the possibility you may be let go in the future for whatever reason.

          – You attempt to address this with your boss, which will likely destroy the illusion of everything’s ok, potentially hastening your departure.

          – You take the time to consider your actual strengths and weaknesses and determine if there’s a job somewhere else that would suit you.

          I hear you on money and not wanting to go into another field but that’s something you’ll need to think about down the line. This job may be good if you just want to make some money but long-term, I don’t think the issues you’re having now will be fixed and you’ll need to decide if you’re ok with that or not. Right now, you’re basically being told to go by your coworkers. Starting over fresh somewhere else might not be a bad thing if it means you can shake off the bad rep.

          1. WorkerBee173*

            Thanks for the clear talk.

            I know that I can’t be a 9-5 person; One of the things I’m trying hard to master is how not to pour my life and soul into my job and still stay engaged. It’s a balance, but I’m getting better at it, and possibly for the first time I know the ‘level’ that I want to be at. But I wont get there if I feel useless :-/

            It should be said that I already told my manager once about the ‘new carrier’ messages I was getting from my co-workers, and the feedback I got then was that this was not his impression at all. But there’s been a lot of water under the bridge since (plus he’s not my daily supervisor), so maybe there’s new information to be had there now.

            Either way, something’s gotta give, I don’t think this is productive or healthy for any of us.

            1. Senor Montoya*

              Hmm, sounds to me like people are not so nice, really. You’re getting folks (not your boss, it seems?) telling you your work has been reassigned and to look at another occupation? That’s terrible!

              You don’t know why your work has been reassigned — if it even has. Did your boss tell you? Or someone stirring the pot? And these folks telling you may not know either. It might be because you’re doing poorly. Or there might be another reason.

              Your colleagues that are swamped and don’t want help — yeah, are they really swamped? or are they over-dramatic?

              I’d say, sit down with your boss. Set a meeting and let your boss know you’d like to talk about your performance and to get her insight on your strengths and areas for development (= NOT weaknesses. NOT ways that I am crap. Areas for DEVELOPMENT). At the meeting, discuss with your boss the concerns that have been brought to you: I’ve been told that X project was reassigned because my work is poor in Z ways. Could you talk me through why X project was reassigned? What from your perspective Boss are my strengths? What from your perspective Boss are my areas to develop?
              You need to have thought through *your* answers to these questions, of course. But let the boss answer the questions FIRST. Don’t blort out a long list of How I Suck. LISTEN.

              Because it sounds to me like your boss is pretty satisfied, and you’ve got some crappy colleagues (or at least some crappy behavior from some colleagues) that’s feeding into your lack of confidence.

              Easy for some stranger in virtual land to say, I know. But I’ve been there! I’m really a tough cookie and I know I’m good at my job. I’ve had times though when I genuinely f’d up badly enough and long enough to doubt myself, and when some of my colleagues were nicey-nice snakes, wow, I really doubted myself and started thinking, I need to switch careers. Fortunately, I had a boss who pulled me in to talk about my performance, my strengths, and my areas for development. And it took a long time to get my head out of that toxic place, even when the snakes had been banished. Several years, in fact.

              It’s such a hard place to be. I really hope you can get a good objective view of yourself and your work, and can feel better about yourself. And maybe remember: truly competent people know they lack knowledge and skills. Incompetent people think they’re all that and a bag of chips.

        2. valentine*

          my workplace is fantastic and my management/colleagues amazing.
          They’re not amazing. They’re avoidant.

          You might need a different industry to feel out of the reach of that former supervisor. It also sounds like your work lends itself to your insistence on making yourself the bad guy, so that, when other people’s projects stagnate, that’s too bad, but when yours do, you think it’s because of you.

          1. WorkerBee173*

            You’re probably right: I’m overly process oriented, and prone to be the type who tries to spot all the problems beforehand, because then I can either fix them or avoid them. This has been a good approach with my previous bosses, but now it’s almost like I’m just stirring the pot for the fun of it :-(

            I guess I’ve become my very own version of Negative Nelly. Good news I guess is that now I can try out the solutions I’ve dreamt up for them in the past!

        3. jenny*

          Your management/colleagues suck, and you outlined the reasons why but drew the wrong conclusion. That’s something-anxiety, stress, depression-talking, but feelings aren’t facts. Your brain will tell you that the problem is you, but feelings aren’t facts.

          A good manager cares about whether someone has so little to do that they’re only working on process improvements. A good manager provides feedback in the moment instead of hoping to give you so little work that there isn’t any feedback to give. Good colleagues don’t make vague comments about how you need to find another job, and then refuse to provide specifics when they’re unhappy, or quietly take work away. These are not well-meaning people. They are avoiding conflict for the selfish reason that they don’t want to have potentially upsetting conversations. These people suck so hard that Dyson’s going to showcase them in floor displays at Bed Bath & Beyond.

            1. revueller*

              *the last sentence of this comment

              everything you wrote was thoughtfully said. i did not laugh at the serious advice you gave but i did laugh at the mental image of a bunch of people standing on a crowded display platform at Bed Bath and Beyond making vacuum noises.

    4. Ann E*

      Have you thought about speaking to a therapist about all of this? It seems like you might have let your own self-esteem be diminished due to someone else’s actions. It sounds like you want to quit and give up over it, are your current employers giving you the same feedback?

    5. AScreenName*

      Oh man, I have been in a similar situation. I’m in therapy to undo the damage from being micromanaged and feeling like I’m constantly screwing up.

      I guess the question is – has current management actually said anything? Or are you just feeling this way?

    6. Senor Montoya*

      Are you truly doing as poorly as you say, or did your toxic boss so thoroughly mess with your head that you’re actually doing just fine? You’re employed in your field, yes? Has your management said anything to you about your doing poorly? are you getting performance reviews, and are they positive?

      I see that below you say, you’re just working on your projects and can’t help with anyone else’s, but that doesn’t mean you’re doing poorly! If others are drowning in too much work, that’s not *your* problem. That’s *management’s* problem. I don’t mean, be a glassbowl and say to your colleagues, not my problem, solve it yourself. I mean, in your head, try to see it that way.

      Also, your colleagues may not be accepting your offers to help not because you/your work sucks/your reputation is bad, but for all sorts of other reasons. Good and bad reasons, and (this is my main point), reasons that have nothing to do with you.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      “and following her ‘helpful supervision and attempts to improve communication between us’ I eventually wound up in a place where I didn’t, and still don’t entirely, trust myself to write my name correctly three times in a row.”

      So basically your mind was not your own. My family members have a saying, “Get out of my head!” when other family members try to inject a lost word or reframe something. She was in your head so much she crippled your thinking. This is what loss of autonomy/loss of power looks like.
      What are you willing to do to steal back your own autonomy/power?

      So it makes sense that you just want to feel useful again. That is one sure fire way of knowing that we are a full-functioning adult. And interestingly it would, indeed, start to bring back your autonomy and power.

      I have two suggestions.

      Personal life. Help someone with a problem they are having. See, one of the things that helps a person in grief is to turn and help someone who is also struggling. Yes, you are in grief, your autonomy and power got up and left the room. You miss them and want them back. (Hey, most people would feel the same way in your shoes.) Go help someone. Don’t make this hard or huge. Volunteer at the library. Go to a nursing home and see if you can do some volunteer work there. Or simply decide to routinely check on an elderly neighbor. Keep it simple so that you actually do it. Somewhere in the process of helping someone else, we begin to take back our own power.

      Work Life. Unfortunately, I don’t know your setting. Or maybe that is good, because I can say general things and you can pick and chose.
      Brain hijacking and the resulting grief can take away our ability to concentrate. So you had two things taking away your ability to concentrate, a double whammy. Look to see what you can do to beef up your diet-nutrition-hydration routines. A properly nourished and watered body and mind both work better. Put stuff into you, you have been incredibly depleted by all this stress. Invest in physical self-care. A 15 minute walk after dinner can make a big difference over time.

      Cry at home. Your story here is AWFUL. You had a terrible, terrible thing happen to you. Cry. Crying creates a chemical reaction in the brain that helps the brain to stay healthy.

      Next just deal with the fact that you are making silly mistakes. Just face it head on. Make a plan for how you will prevent the various types of silly mistakes you find yourself prone to. When my husband passed (grief) I was prone to losing my keys (lack of concentration due to grief). I put a clip on my key ring and decided I would keep my keys clip to something else- my tote, my handbag or my belt loop (a plan for how to deal with constantly losing my keys). I also put together a spare key ring and set it in a designated spot. If I am not using it, the ring MUST be in it’s designated spot. (Plan B in case Plan A fails.)

      At work, parallel ideas. The boring stuff that causes my brain to snooze, gets reviewed before I move on to the next thing. I don’t wanna say how many of my own mistakes I have caught. But I review stuff each and every time, no exceptions.
      I put stuff in my own way so I remember to do it. My boss puts any new work in a designated tray. I know what my boss expects me to work on today. I have a large desk and I can lay out papers that need to be finished before I go home. If that area is empty, I know I have hit everything I need to hit. Set things up so that you can’t fail. Use these things as routines, in other words do things the same way each day. You can save yourself so many headaches.
      Ya know, it’s our routines that save us. Both in our work life and home life. And it’s our routines that remain familiar when there is a lot going upside down in the rest of our lives. Because of their familiarity routines, such as even washing dishes, can be oddly comforting simply because it is familiar.

      So do these types of things for a while. Get your own confidence back. What I see here looks like you are more devastated by losing your own confidence than anything the bosses can think of to say to you. Reclaim you.
      Then as you feel parts of old you returning, go back to your boss and ask for specific projects. “I know we have X coming up, I am interested in doing that project.” At this point you could be feeling stronger than now and you might be able to handle that deeper conversation of “if not, WHY NOT?”

      You say you like your job and you like the people. Just like you want them to give you a chance, please give them and YOURSELF a chance. Stop second guessing at what they are thinking, give yourself the gift of accepting their words at face value. This is going to be a little bit getting back on a better track, but you can do this.

    8. OhBehave*

      I feel the anxiety coming through your post. I’m so sorry.

      “I’ve probably been seriously stressed and on the verge of burnout most of my working life.” What can you pinpoint as the first instance of this happening? Were you a stressed student (going ten different directions at once)? Some stress is expected with jobs, just not all the time. Do you think meds might help center you? Has your therapist recommended anything?

      How did this horrible old boss ensure your reputation followed you?

      Meet with your boss again. Lay it all on the table. Mainly about this last boss who shook you so much. Ask your boss to assign you a project that they will work on with you. You could say, “Several people have told me I should consider another career. I don’t feel that is the answer. However, I do know I make minor mistakes that should never happen. I believe this is why I don’t get more projects. My last boss was very hostile. I carry that stress to this day. What would you suggest I do to improve how I’m perceived here?” Present working on a project together. Think through these silly mistakes you make. What tangible steps can you take to ensure they do not happen? Check lists? Go through every step with a fine toothed comb! Rethink your attitude toward these projects. If you don’t think they are worthwhile, you will not put forth the effort. But, if others see these mistakes on inconsequential projects, why would they trust you on others? Start presenting perfect work; it just may change your rep in the office.

      I wish you the best.

  22. Wing Leader*

    I don’t have any questions this week, so I thought I would share an amusing story. I work as an assistant in a law firm, and there are two lawyers that look very physically similar (despite not being related). They are both petite women of the same race, both have shoulder-length dark hair, both wear glasses and dress similarly, etc. I can tell them apart now, but I couldn’t when I first started. The only real difference I noticed between them was one of them always wears high heels and the other one always wears flats. So for a while, I would have to look at their feet before I addressed one of them to make sure I called them by the correct name.

    I’m sure they thought I was looking down out of nervousness, but they’d probably think it was funny if I explained it now haha.

        1. She's One Crazy Diamond*

          Based on describing them as the same race I guess I just assumed, and it’s been a persistent problem at my organization where white people think the PoC employees all look the same even when we absolutely do not. So I am sorry if they were white women, but if they’re PoC I stand by my comment.

        2. Wing Leader*

          Uh, no, they’re both Caucasian. I only mentioned they were the same race to point out all the similarities.

            1. Blueberry*

              Even setting aside issues of race I think you had a good point about not telling them — who wants to feel that their coworkers find them so unremarkable as to be indistinguishable from other people? Even before I got my eyesight semi-repaired I worked very hard on not mixing people up for this reason.

          2. Lonely Aussie*

            If it’s a male dominated workplace it sucks on an additional level. I worked in an area where myself and another woman were the only two women in our area. We were both mid/late twenties, had dark hair and names that started with the same letter. She was there first and when I was assigned there, 9 times out of 10 I’d be called by her name. Drove me insane. A few months later she’d also get my name but no where the frequency that I did. Felt like my male coworkers saw a women and just said the first female name that popped into their head that made sense in context. I tried to correct people as it happened but it was happening so often that it was draining to have to correct people almost every interaction.

            Contributed to me feeling incredibly unwelcome on my new area (there were other issues, but at minimum it felt like they couldn’t even be bothered to address me by my name). I pointed it out to my manager at the time and he brushed me off with “well you’re both (letter)” and that I was being silly.
            Felt like pointing out that the whole area was made up of old white dudes and I still managed to get everyone’s name right.
            She’s been gone for over a year and at least once a week someone still calls me by her name.

      2. Nessun*

        That is terrible, and I’ve no doubt it’s happened to many people – but I will say, race doesn’t have to be a part of it. For example, I can’t always tell Brad Pitt, Guy Pearce and Val Kilmer apart (I’m Caucasian). I’ve also misnamed coworkers because they look alike – including, most embarrassingly, my boss’s kid (also Caucasian) who was interning for us. Face-blindness can be a part of the problem, and finding a way around it (like looking at shoes) can be a good solution. If it’s only happened with those two ladies, and it’s because of their race, agreed – don’t tell them; there is a space where they MIGHT find it funny, but they could reasonably be very upset. But if it happens with OP in lots of other circumstances, maybe it’s not the same issue.

        1. Wing Leader*

          Yes, since you brought that up, I can’t tell Isla Fisher and Amy Adams apart lol. I’m definitely not the type to assume everyone of a certain race looks the same. If you see these two lawyers I work for, you’d see what I mean. They look like twins and it’s often joked about in the office.

          1. She's One Crazy Diamond*

            Yeah, you may just be somewhat face blind, because Isla Fisher and Amy Adams don’t look alike at all to me and I’m baffled as to why they always get mixed up.

              1. She's One Crazy Diamond*

                Their eyes are completely different. Isla has dark brown eyes and Amy has blue/green eyes and also I think Amy’s eyes are a little bigger and rounder. If that helps at all!

            2. Clisby*

              I just googled them, and I can see why people would mix them up (for the record, I had never heard of Isla Fisher, and had only the vaguest notion of what Amy Adams looked like.)

              Neither of them is distinctive-looking, so there might be other people they could be confused with as well.

          2. Nessun*

            Same!! I’m great with voices, but faces…faces throw me off. It’s at the point where I long for the days of cubicles (we’re open concept) because our cubicles had name tags. This is also why the pictures in Outlook are so useless – it never helps me identify anyone in person either. LOL

          3. willow for now*

            Sean Bean and Kenneth Branaugh, for me. Although both are easy on the eyes (for me).

            1. Amy Sly*

              Oh that’s easy. Branaugh is the one who’s still alive at the end of the show.

              The accent helps too: Bean can’t really do anything but his Northern English accent, but Branaugh is Northern Irish and does a great RP. Ken’s American accent — especially his Southern American accent — is terrible.

              1. Clisby*

                From what I’ve seen on TV and in movies, any British actors’ American English (not just southern English) is terrible. I was incredibly impressed when I realized that 3 of the main cast members of The Wire were British/Irish, and yet had completely believable American accents. (No idea whether they were completely believable Baltimore accents – that might be a different story.)

      4. 2e*

        Even though it doesn’t relate to Wing Leader’s story, thanks for this link. I am a POC who’s often mistaken at work for other mixed-race people with only vaguely similar features to mine. I hadn’t seen this article and it was validating to read.

    2. Amy Sly*

      I sold shoes for a long time. There were several regular customers that I couldn’t recognize by face, couldn’t recognize by name, but looking at their feet was a Proustian moment of recall. It happens.

    3. Mama Bear*

      Happened to me all the time at a previous job – two of us were about the same age, coloring and build, with similarly colored hair at the same length. We worked for the same boss. Even things like hair texture and glasses/no glasses didn’t keep people from confusing us for YEARS. At least you figured out a trick.

      1. Mama Bear*

        As an aside, there is a real condition called prosopagnosia (face blindness) where you literally cannot recognize people by face, even family members.

      2. Not So NewReader*

        This happened to me also. The boss could not tell the two Irish women apart. It was only a real problem when the three of us worked together. He eventually figured it out.

    4. Panthera uncia*

      As a server I was frequently confused with one other specific server. I was a chubby white 30-something, and she was a very thin Asian college co-ed. No idea why it happened so often, but it was very flattering to me. Not so much to her.

      1. Aurélia*

        My petite Asian co-worker and I (overweight, average-height white woman) would get called each other’s names. We both wear glasses so I felt it was kind of like, “oh, you’re one of the ones with glasses who is competent and helpful” and never took offense, but yeah. It was always interesting. My brain picks up on random cues sometimes and misfires, generally something like “hockey lover” or “rabid Taylor Swift Fan” or the like, my brain goes down that corridor but opens the wrong door (like calling my friend Bobby instead of Anthony). I typically just explain the misfire, people get a chuckle and move on.

    5. Anon bc work*

      In my last job, I would occasionally run into a tall, thin blonde girl in the kitchen. She worked in a different department. One day, I walked into the kitchen to see TWO tall, thin blonde girls. I literally thought they were the same person until I saw them both at the same time! They had very similar facial features, similar length hair that they would wear up in a ponytail or bun, and would dress similarly. I noticed that one of them had wavier hair than the other, and would use that to distinguish them.

      1. Anon bc work*

        I will say this is the first/only time this has happened to me. I’m normally good at distinguishing faces, because I tend to notice subtle details about people’s appearances (bone stucture, facial marks, eye color, etc.) I think this confusion was due to me not paying much attention.

      2. Nerfmobile*

        There are two girls in my daughter’s class at school who look very similar to me – small, long very light blond hair, round faces. I finally figured out that one has wavier hair while the other has stick-straight hair, so I have to see their hair to tell!

    6. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      I haven’t been in your position, but I have been in the position of “one of the two co-workers who someone mixed up with each other”.

      I and the other woman are a similar height, build, skin/eye/hair colour (I think her her colour is natural but mine is dyed) but we don’t dress alike. I wear the same type of outfit every day though and she changes it up.

      It had never occurred to me that I looked like the other woman so it was a bit of a surprise!

      It isn’t anything negative and isn’t a reflection on her, but is just strange what people notice or not :)

    7. blueberry muffins*

      I’m a middle-aged caucasian woman, working in a very very male dominated area. I can’t tell any of our young caucasian men apart. They all just look … tall and 15 to me. I sometimes have to resort to describing them (‘tall’ ‘very tall’). I usually remember where they sit or which projects they are on, so I can describe them to someone else to get a name.

    8. I don't look a thing like her*

      I believe this is across cultures. Middle aged white woman with glasses, public service. colleague middle aged white woman with glasses. We are totally different heights, facial shape, body shape. Our clients were majority Black. Consistently our patrons could not tell us apart. Yes, you did help me yesterday. No, yesterday was my day off.

  23. Miss M*

    Today’s the day! It’s my last day and I get to talk to HR at my exit. I have decided to report the sticky note incident. I ended up talking to my boss so she wouldn’t be blindsided afterwards, but she was defending my coworker as expected. “Oh, she’s just socially awkward. I’m surprised she didn’t say f*ck you b*tch on one of those notes!” Like the way this is tolerated is…something else.

    I don’t think HR will do anything because our team learned that this coworker harassed HR! She told him that she had been tracking his bathroom habits on a spreadsheet and “asked if his prostate was ok.” My boss gasped but then laughed in a “Oh, Jane, you’re so weird.” Jane has been getting away with this shit for 15 years. I just…sigh. I’m doing my due diligence at least.

      2. Miss M*

        Holy balls, prostate, whatever is in that region. Yikes. My other coworker shared with me that some of the things Jane said about me before I got hired was lawsuit worthy. The fact that she is still here! And treated as the office rascal! And this is government! AGH

        1. Zona the Great*

          Miss M, in my last job, I was sexually harassed every single day by the staff of the contracted operator I helped oversee. Every day. Even by their management. When I had my exit interview, I went full scorched-earth mo-fo on them. I had receipts. I had dates and times. I had exact names and what clothes they wore down to the color of belt they wore when they harassed me. No way to deny any of it. I never told my boss because our first week together on the job, he told me a little diddy about his sister “claiming she was raped at 16 but she was a wild-child so who really knows”. I told HR this was why I wouldn’t consider going to boss first. Serious investigations were started that day. Firings. Resignations. News Stories.

          Do it!!!!

          1. Miss M*

            I did it! I finally did it! UNFORTUNATELY HR said “I’ll note it but I’m not sure if we can do anything now.” So. As I thought. However, I’m taking this up with our regional civil rights office after I leave. I just worry about the people of color coming in after me and our clientele of color.

            2. Marny*

              WTF? Is it that they “can’t do anything” because you’re leaving? They’re only willing to discipline an employee for racist behavior if the victim is still there?

          2. Miss M*

            And I’m so sorry that all happened to you. I’m proud of you for reporting because it’s so so hard to do. And often it feels like the reporter gets in more trouble than the person who committed the evil acts. I’m so glad they acted on it in your case!

          3. Bernice Clifton*

            Leaving aside how horrible the comment about the sister was (which is totally), how does a subject like that even come up with someone you supervise *during the first week*?

    2. Holy Moley*

      100% unacceptable that HR, management and your employer lets this person get away with their racism and bullying. Is it too late to file an EEO complaint on the way out the door?

      Glad you are leaving. May karma bite Jane in the ass.

      2. Miss M*

        A friend has told me to file with EEO but I’m not sure I can do that post employment. I’ll look into it. As far as karma, well… I know she hates her job and has gotten bed bugs twice now this year. I don’t wish bed bugs on anyone but I didn’t exactly feel super bad…

        1. Holy Moley*

          In my federal job you have 45 days from the event to file. So….. if the sticky not thing has been since then you should be in the clear maybe?

        3. OhBehave*

          PLEASE report this! Glassdoor review. Anything to warn people about this horrid place. They are all culpable because they did nothing.
          Petty me says to sign her up for workplace harassment newsletters, emails, seminars, etc. But you’re probably a better person than I :)

        4. EEOC Counselor*

          I’m sorry I missed your post last week, but please file an EEO complaint. I am so sorry that this happened to you and I’m glad you’re getting out. Now you don’t have to worry about retaliation, which is super common when people file. Good luck with your new job!

    3. Mina, The Company Prom Queen*

      Oh my- I’m glad you got out of that environment. I’m sorry that your manager and HR don’t seem interested in doing anything about it, but I’m glad you are reporting it further. Jane’s behavior is unacceptable. I hope your next job is awesome!

  24. the consort Sha'ira*

    Besides something like Toastmasters, what are some ways (tips, tricks, techniques, nuggets of wisdom) that people have found useful for building skill and confidence with speaking in front of groups?

    1. Wing Leader*

      I don’t know if this is what you’re looking for, but there’s a book called Talk Like Ted that you may like. It’s about how the different people who have given Ted Talks built up their confidence and overcame issues to do so.

      1. the consort Sha'ira*

        Thanks so much! I’ll definitely check that book out and appreciate the tip.

    2. It's just me*

      For me, it’s been preparedness. Know your subject matter inside and out, practice if possible in front of a co-worker of family member. Also, I try to focus more on why I’m presenting, and the importance of the material I’m trying to get across, so that I’m more focused on that than the fact that everyone is looking at me. Hope that helps! I feel your pain though…I’ll never enjoy speaking in front of a group.

      1. the consort Sha'ira*

        Haha, thanks! It’s not so much “pain” as it is just a “this is a skill I’ll have to work on if I want to advance professionally.” I really appreciate this tip and will make a point to prepare, practice, and focus my energy on doing the content justice.

        1. It's just me*

          So glad I could help! Best of luck, and good for you for wanting to improve this aspect of your professional life!

        2. another scientist*

          Volunteer anywhere you can, with the caveat that you want to be able to prepare adequately for each event. It gets better with practice. The first presentations I gave were carefully rehearsed, but over the years, I got more used to the flow. Now, often I can just spend a few minutes organizing my thoughts and then wing it (unless it’s a Very Important Presentation).
          Also, as you do a few speaking gigs, you can focus on specific areas to improve and find advice for those. Some people need to focus on the content and how to convey everything to the audience, others work on body language, voice, nerves.
          My employer regularly invited this great public speaking coach for workshops. There are some nice videos available online. https://www.principiae.be/X0302.php

    3. A Simple Narwhal*

      I agree with It’s just me, preparedness really helps. It’s good to practice in front of your expected audience, but I highly recommend also practicing your presentation in front of someone who doesn’t know about the subject matter – they’ll be good at letting you know where some holes might be that your inside knowledge fills in for you, but others might be confused by. This will strengthen your presentation as well as cut down on people interrupting to ask questions, which can sometimes throw you off your game.

      Speaking of that, determine ahead of time how you want to address questions. Do you welcome questions at every opportunity? Will you be pausing at points throughout for questions? Do you want everyone to wait until the very end? Whichever you choose, state it at the beginning – this will prevent interruptions and allow you to gently defer people who do interrupt.

      If you have a visual aid, absolutely do NOT put all of your content on it. If you end up just reading off of your slides, I’m going to wonder why this couldn’t have been sent in an email to digest at my leisure. The visuals should support your words, and your words should support the visuals, but they should not give identical content.

      My last bit of advice is to talk slower than you think you need to. Normal speech goes a lot faster than you think, and if you deliver a presentation like you would a conversation, it’s going to sound rushed and uncomfortable to listen to/hard to absorb. My trick is to talk slow to the point that you’re thinking “geez I’m talking so slow, this feels really weird” – that’s usually about the perfect cadence for a presentation.

      Good luck!

    4. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

      When I’m giving a new conference talk, I try to schedule something with my team at work to present it to them first. My preferred timeline is about a month prior to the first public presentation. This way I can get feedback from a friendly audience and have time to incorporate any changes I want to make.

    5. Emilitron*

      I realized at one point that a lot of what I was categorizing as “nerves” was actually mild unpreparedness. When it’s not something that I could speak to with skill and confidence to a friend at a coffeeshop (or a coworker in an office) it’s not going to be something I could do in front of an audience. When it IS information that I’m genuinely fluent in (including all the extra info my manager made me include for “broader context” and the fine-grained detail added in by the subject-matter team), then it’s just a matter of building the order of the talk up, and remembering what’s about to happen next. The actual confidence of speaking in front of people isn’t as much of a problem as I thought it was, once I’d taken care of the content.

    7. Amy Sly*

      A couple books that I give to the teenage relations I deal with: “How to Say It” and “How to Say It for Women.”

      The first is more generally themed for public speaking and professional writing, while the other examines how to eliminate common feminine behaviors that undermine credibility, like poor posture or handshakes.

    8. eshrai*

      There are so many good suggestions already on here. I am a technical trainer so I am up in front of people all the time teaching classes and performing demonstrations on software. I agree that being prepared and knowing your subject matter inside and out is the best strategy for calming nerves. Sometimes though, I don’t have the opportunity to be fully prepared for a presentation. There are times I am asked to present things last minute, or do a demo when the software isn’t finished and I don’t know what the changes are.

      One tactic I use a lot when I am teaching (in addition to many suggestions already mentioned) is to treat it like a performance. I am no longer eshrai the office worker, I am taking on a Role. I am Eshrai the very knowledgeable, competent, professional public speaker. I did theater growing up, so I think that helped me to create a persona I can play. My grand-boss jokes about it because I am naturally very sarcastic and goofy but she says she sees this shift when I get up to speak.

      1. Policy Wonk*

        +1 This is my trick, too. In addition to being prepared with all the facts/info at hand, I have a suit I wear that, when I put it on, I am taking on the role of Policy Expert as opposed to being me. It helps with that negative little voice in my head that tells me people don’t want to listen to me. I tell that voice no, they probably don’t, but they do want to listen to Policy Expert! It works for me.

    9. Teekanne aus Schokolade*

      Volunteer with kids when you can, specifically in a classroom setting, perhaps volunteering to talk to groups and classes during a career day. Some groups make you feel awesome, some are savage, but either way they are fantastic practice for speaking in front of adults because more often than not, they’re more challenging than adults. Keeping attention, building rapport, answering unexpected questions, it’s all valuable practice that will give you the best sense of confidence. Then try with high school classes!

    10. Not So NewReader*

      Practice at home in front of the mirror.
      We have to get use to hearing our own voices speaking at length and with authority/knowledge. This isn’t in our genes at birth, we have to grow it.

    11. Nelalvai*

      Not exactly speaking, but I had a big, big solo a few years back that I was anxious about for months. In the hours before my performance I chatted with my band-mates. Nonstop. Joking about nerves but also just talking about anything. The levity and the distraction of it left me no time to get nervous.

    12. Anonnington*

      Just get more practice speaking in front of groups. Teaching works. The group you’re practicing with could be four-year-olds (even better, maybe, because they’ll give you unexpected reactions while also being forgiving if you don’t have a response right away). Poetry or comedy open mic’s work too. Whatever you can find, the more variety, the better.

    13. Bluebell*

      Deborah Frances White has a fantastic TED talk about this, Using the lessons of stand-up comedy and applying them to business presentations. You should be able to Google it pretty easily.

  25. She's One Crazy Diamond*

    Curious about the AAM community’s thoughts on this. My organization, after having no standardized onboarding for decades, has finally developed a program to be more welcoming to new employees. Which is a great thing. But as part of the new program, managers were asked to select onboarding mentors from their team who were professional and reliable. And while I 100% understand that reasoning, as someone who was chosen as a mentor, we don’t get a lot of notice before a new person shows up and the program basically requires us to drop everything to focus on the new person for a week, and I find it incredibly stressful especially since we’re so understaffed and my plate is overflowing. I guess I feel like I’m being punished for being a good employee? Also, the overwhelming majority of mentors chosen were young women, even though the average employee here is a 50-year-old man. Am I right to feel weird about this?

    2. A Simple Narwhal*

      Ooh that’s weird/not good. I think it’s worth pushing back on two fronts – 1: you need more notice. If doing this requires you to essentially drop what you’re doing for a full week, you need time to prepare and move things around so you can devote your full and proper attention to your mentee. 2: It’s worth bringing up the optics of having a support(ish) based role filled overwhelmingly with young women, especially when the demographics of your company don’t match up. Alison has a lot of good language in the backlog about how to bring up concerns/voice this properly, I’d definitely check it out.

      There’s more to be said about how people are selected for this (can/do people volunteer, can you say no if asked, are you just told and have to do it, etc), and I think there is a lot more to push back on or be unhappy about, but the two things I outlined are pretty objective reasons for making a change that leave personal feelings out of it and are less likely to be dismissed as complaints or you not being a team player (ugh).

      1. She's One Crazy Diamond*

        Thank you! And yes, people are told it’s now part of their jobs and can’t get out of it, and another thing that gets me is I’m an alpaca groomer and another alpaca groomer was not assigned to do this and I’m sure it’s because her HR file is super thick, and of course you don’t want someone known for making inappropriate comments to be someone’s first impression of the organization, but it makes me feel like oh, since I’m nice to my colleagues I get all this extra work shoved at me while Fergusina is being basically rewarded for being unpleasant and gets to spend all of her time doing the actual interesting technical work that I would also rather be doing instead of showing everyone how to fill out their timesheet.

        1. A Simple Narwhal*

          Ooh that’s unfortunate. I can see why they would choose you over her, but it sucks that you are pretty much being punished for being a good employee. But if you are
          indeed stuck with it, maybe you can reframe it in your head as thing that will look great on your annual review and use it to get a better raise/a promotion some day.

          Also I don’t know how often your company brings in new people, but if a good chunk of the “mentorship” is a bunch of general operations tasks, maybe you could suggest they have a monthly/quarterly/etc general training session for all the new hires rather than one-off mentorships that disrupt workflow.

          1. She's One Crazy Diamond*

            They do have quarterly meetings too, but they are insisting on the mentorship program.

            1. A Simple Narwhal*

              If they have quarterly trainings, what’s the point of the mentorship? Especially one as disruptive as this. Blergh, I hope it’s not too often or bad for you, and that it nets you a nice consideration at year end.

              1. She's One Crazy Diamond*

                Honestly I’ve been considering leaving for a long time, and now seems like a good time. So hopefully I won’t have to deal with this for much longer. But I get so much thrown at me (I somehow became the designated person for all our departments to pile work on if they can’t/don’t want to do it and my boss is fine with me unofficially having that role) that I know they’ll be screwed when I bounce. I thought I signed up for technical writing and project management when I took this job but apparently not.

        2. Gumby*

          Teaching people to fill out time sheets is… not mentoring people. This is absolutely something HR should be handling. That way they know everyone is getting the same basic info. (Seriously, if Bill always enters to the quarter hour and Nancy just rounds to the nearest hour you are going to have wackadoodle things going on when all of their mentees do things different ways.)

          Actual mentoring should be shared around among everyone. In fact, I’d approach it with asking managers who on their teams *is not* to be used but otherwise anyone who has been there, say, a year or more is fair game. And not-to-be-used people should be facing consequences in other ways like if they aren’t cut out to be a mentor,they better be working on fixing that.

          Why is mentoring something that takes a whole week of full time work? Because that set up is also kind of crazy. I was a mentor at a previous job and it was a couple of hours on their first day and then checking in once a day for a week or two and answering questions as they came up. That honestly took less than 30 minutes per day. usually more like 5.

    3. Ama*

      Yeah that’s not a good look there. Not structure wise and not who is getting pushed into mentoring.

      My employer does have new employees do onboarding meetings with each department to get a feel for everything we do here (we’re a nonprofit so it’s worth it for everyone to have at least a passing familiarity with everything happening here). And even that gets a little annoying because sometimes they’ll email and ask us to commit to a time with very little notice (we also tend to hire in batches and they aren’t always able to group the new hires together, so you wind up doing three orientation meetings in one month). If I was expected to just drop everything to help out for a week I’d never get anything done!

    4. Lora*

      I will have a contrarian opinion: We do this currently at my job and it’s actually really helpful. BUT, we are also pairing new people with whomever is experienced, so my mentor was a guy 10 years older than me (i.e. retirement age). He was very busy and I’m sure I was super inconvenient, but I also had a week of training on the usual things (how to use their flavor of SAP, which HR person is in charge of benefits questions etc) before he was saddled with me. So hopefully I wasn’t too much of a pain in the butt. It definitely helped a lot, because my boss was also extremely busy and traveling a lot at the time, and my boss had also only been with the company for a year and didn’t know all the things I was asking.

      If they’re going to do this though, they should make sure you have time to do it. Can you let your manager know that you need to have some less-priority projects put off in order to make time for this?

      1. She's One Crazy Diamond*

        Unfortunately all of my projects are high priority and my beef is that I would rather do my projects than give building tours, show people how to use Outlook, and other basic admin tasks. I wouldn’t be nearly as upset about it if I was training them to do the technical aspects of their job. Also, because we’re so understaffed, I don’t even work that closely with most of the positions I mentor.

        1. Anonnington*

          Ooohh, you see, that’s the issue. It isn’t that the program exists. It’s that they’re choosing the wrong people to be mentors.

          I would push back based on this. Explain your work load. Explain, in so many words, that you don’t always have time to teach new people basic things.

          If it were me, I would want to mentor someone at some point so I could put it on my resume. But, yeah, they need to pair people with people they’ll be working with, people who have time.

    5. Senor Montoya*

      Speaking as the officially designated mentor for new folks in our office, you need clear guidelines written down: what’s the goal in having a mentor for newbies, what are the expectations of the mentor? the mentee? (including, how much time are you supposed to spend) what are you supposed to do? what’s the mentee supposed to do? what’s the timeline? who do you go to if there are issues? who does the mentee go to if there are issues?

      What comes off your plate when you’re spending time mentoring? The Powers That Be often don’t think about the amount of time and effort it takes to mentor well. Mentoring newbies — great idea! and also — a LOT of work.

      I get two to four weeks notice, so… And we have guidelines because I wrote them. I also got a project I dislike postponed/removed when I agreed to take on this function. I do love mentoring, so win-win for me.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      “Since I am taking on more work than some of my other peers I feel I should be compensated accordingly.”

      Then,

      “Oh that is not possible? Well perhaps we need to take a look at why a disproportionate number of women are teachers and the men get off the hook. What we have here is that women are doing more work for less pay.”

  26. Pusheen*

    I wrote this back in December 6th open thread. Basically I had an employee who was nice but not performing up to standards.

    Well, we wrote her up a month prior and put her on a PIP and I explained that termination would be the next step if things didn’t improve. When we wrote her up she said “I don’t see it as a big issue but you guys do so.” 

    Things didn’t improve and we began making plans so that when she was gone (whether by her own choice or ours) we wouldn’t be in a bad position. 

    We had conversations with her from I think October on wards and she would improve for a bit but fall back in to old habits. Clients were unhappy and things slipped through the cracks on her end, despite us tracking as much as possible. 

    The other day she went to HR and said that I was alienating her and taking away her work. She was ready to resign but HR stopped her from doing so. She then called in my boss and my coworker (the supervisor on my team), leaving me out of the meeting. Both of them came back afterwards and told me what happened — my boss reminded HR that we had plans to let the employee go but if she wants to resign we can do that now. HR remembered that conversation (and we had all documentation in place). So she resigned.

    I feel bad. She was a nice person and talented but just wasn’t performing up to our standards. I know she had a rough start here but we really tried to work with her. 

    I’ve been learning more about management as I go along including what my own mental blockers are and why things went this way. At my company it’s normal to take a few months to fire someone, rarely do people get fired in days/weeks.

    1. Wing Leader*

      It really is sad when you’ve got someone who’s a nice person, but they just aren’t doing their job. Her comment about it not being a big deal to her strikes me as odd though, which tells me she was flippant about the problems and the feedback you were giving her. So it sounds like things ended in the best way they could have.

    2. Dust Bunny*

      Honestly, don’t feel bad. People can be nice all day long but they still have a job to do. It sounds like you were amply fair with her in terms of giving her a chance and trying to work with her. But at some point the employee has to do it on their own.

    3. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      It’s normal to feel bad about firing someone. It’s a rare day that anyone wants that job. I have enjoyed firing only one time and that was because it was a vile sexist twerp who couldn’t do the job and refused to accept direction or assistance. I also don’t mind disciplining bullies but I sure don’t take pleasure in it!

      Listen. There are a million nice people out there, they’re great humans, they’re fantastically smart in their own ways. But they can’t always do a job, no matter what. They’re not cut out for it.

      She’s still nice. She’s still good! She’s just not right for that job. She will be okay. She’ll be so much happier once she fits her spot. You were all miserable, including her because it sucks to not live up to the standards others have for you. You weren’t unfair. You weren’t unkind. This is normal management stuff. You’re having a human reaction to dealing with other humans. Emotions and empathy are wonderful things, don’t lose them.

      1. Mama Bear*

        She was already on a PIP. She brought this on herself, surface nice that she may be. She was not nice to you when you told her what needed to change and when she didn’t like losing duties. She tried an end-run. Don’t feel guilty. She was fortunate to be allowed to resign vs be fired.

    4. Fikly*

      There was an episode of Project Runway, I think on the most recent season, where one of the designers made an outfit that the judges didn’t like, and also didn’t really fit the challenge.

      He defended his look by saying that he loved it, so what they thought didn’t matter. Well, I mean, great that he likes it, but if he wants to stay on the show, he’s going to have to design something the judges like too. And in the real world, producing something other people want is pretty critical.

      And yet some people seem to not understand this fundamental concept. Yes, doing what your employer thinks is important is critical to your job security!

    5. NicoleK*

      It’s always difficult to fire someone, but it’s better that it happened. On my team, people who should be fired don’t get fired. And it brings down morale. And people lose respect for the manager.

  27. Anon for this one*

    Does anyone work in an administrative supporting role in higher education and not hate it? I need some positive experience stories. All our faculty members are the most negative, hateful, nit-picky, unrealistic SOB’s I’ve ever known or worked with. I’ve worked in multiple departments in the University I’m at and 90% of them are like this. I’m just so tired of everyone coming to me with petty complaints because things (that I have 100% no control over) are not up to their oh-so-high standards. I’m only here until I graduate and I’m trying to change my mindset, but just Ugh.

    1. Cruciatus*

      Well, I don’t now, but I did before. The reason I left was because I hated my supervisor (you never knew what kind of mood she’d be in. It varied every. single. day). But I enjoyed (most of) the faculty. I won’t say it was all a picnic–faculty can be the worst and most helpless babies I’ve ever seen. If we graded them on ignoring our emails, etc. like they grade their students regarding their syllabi then they would also often have failing grades… But except for the department I was in, people around here don’t leave their administrative jobs very often. People are here 5, 10, 15+ years moving around campus (most of the time). So maybe it’s just your school and there is no proper support for staff? I work in the library now and (sadly) not many faculty even use the resources available to them so I don’t have as much contact as I did before. But overall I thought the faculty were nice, normal people with the few outliers here or there with issues that I was happy I didn’t make enough money to have to deal with.

      1. Anon for this one*

        There really isn’t any support for staff. Like at all. Most of the department heads make it really, really clear that we’re replaceable in a second and that we just need to put up with the faculty being insane. On turnover it’s kind of 50/50. Some positions have massive turn over and other people put up with it because there are some okay benefits for working at the university.

        1. Faith*

          It sounds like a bad culture at your particular university. I wouldn’t judge all universities by this one place, but I totally get how it would make you want to avoid this kind of environment going forward. The universities that are like that are usually few and far between.

          Even when I worked at one that was kind of like that, when a new department chair started telling people they oversaw that they could easily be replaced, once word of that got to their supervisor, they were swiftly reprimanded. When it continued, they were eventually demoted and removed from any employee oversight.

          So I think you’re at a *really* crappy place if the department heads are allowed to treat you like that.

          1. Anon for this one*

            Sorry should have expanded on that. There is one larger University system where I live and that’s the one I work at. There isn’t really any other higher education job options where I live and I have no intention of moving because I love where I live. With my degree, I might have an option to work at the University, but it’s not really higher education related. So after I graduate I won’t be pursuing options here. Because you’re right, it’s super crappy. I think there are tiny pockets where people are not awful, but they’re few and far between.

    2. Little Beans*

      That is too bad. I have worked in higher ed for nearly 20 years now, at 3 different institutions and I have NOT had this experience. I don’t know if it could be something about your university in particular? I would actually say that the vast majority of faculty I’ve worked with have been incredibly hard-working, obviously smart people who care about education and students. Yes, they have high expectations – they work insanely long hours and sometimes forget that not everyone else can. Yes, they can tend to get blinders on and think their opinion is the only right one, but as long as they are still trying to do what they think is best for students, we can usually find compromises. I’ve run into a couple like you describe but they have been the outliers, in my experience.

      1. Anon for this one*

        I think it’s the University. Their hiring practices are really awful and it’s just not a fantastic school in a lot of aspects. I’ve never been particularly drawn to higher education as a career field and I am just working here until I graduate (from another school, I don’t like my program at this school) but I have completely written it off as a path for me and I will probably not ever work in higher education again unless I am beyond desperate. This place has definitely made me realize that there is a huge difference between being educated and being smart.

        1. (Mr.) Cajun2core*

          It is not just the one university. I am in an admin role in a university and the faculty can be arrogant, ignorant about the most basic things (like how to use a copier – basic stuff), lazy, email you at 8:33 to make copies for them for their 9:00 class (literally yesterday), think the rules don’t apply to them, etc.

          Now, there are some wonderful faculty out there but there are some real losers out there too!

          1. Anon for this one*

            Maybe we work at the same one! Haha. That sounds like my life. Everyone talks to me like I’m an idiot because I don’t have a PhD but none of them can turn their computer on.

    3. Intermittent Introvert*

      I was at a community college. Never saw this. Most professors are there because they love students and teaching. No pressure to research or publish.

      1. Forever Annon*

        That may be the key. PhD’s, especially that have grant money and their own labs tend to be super obnoxious and let everyone else do the grunt work. I felt so bad for grad students stuck with the crap.

    4. Faith*

      I think sometimes it just depends on the university you’re at. I’ve worked at different universities, and the ones that make an effort to emphasize that everyone is an employee of the university seem to be much better environments to work in (as a non-faculty employee) than the ones that make a staff/faculty delineation. The ones that make the delineation seem to have a lot more faculty that treat everyone else poorly; I would bet you’re working at one of those. Which doesn’t make it better for you right now, but maybe it’ll help put things in perspective.

    5. NJBi*

      I’ve had, overall, a quite good experience in an administrative support role. I only work with a couple of faculty and while they have strange things that they nitpick and complain about (often stuff outside of my control–like, I can’t fix the fact that the projector in the classroom isn’t working, and I couldn’t have anticipated that to work around it. ditto the fact that your guest speaker is 20 minutes late due to traffic.), overall, I get a lot of respect from faculty and they understand that I do a better job at my job than they would be able to do.

      If that respect wasn’t present… it would be a problem. But I think this is dependent on the particular faculty and the particular university. Also probably helps that my role allows me to take on complex projects on occasion, which isn’t always the case for these kinds of jobs–the projects both let me get more satisfaction from my work and let faculty see, like, “Oh yeah, I see that this person’s job is more complex than I give them credit for, and I realize now that in fact they do stuff IDK how to do all the time.”

    6. Winter*

      I work in a University supporting a PhD/Masters program and have found most of the faculty to be incredibly kind people (if terrible at following through, checking email, and generally keeping up with things). There are a few ‘interesting’ characters (and there’s rather a bit of petty politics around that), but they’re in the vast minority, so I don’t really have any complaints.

      Turnover rate in my department is also astonishingly slow – most of my coworkers have been here 10, 20, 30 years.

      But I feel like that might be different since I work in a School of Social Work? So it may appeal to a different demographic than, say, Chemistry or Engineering, etc. (I have coworkers who have less than stellar things to say about their experiences in the Business School.)

    7. AnotherLibrarian*

      I am not now, but I have done it part time a long time ago. I was one of two people- my colleague was full time. We managed the faculty of a very large physics department, with some engineering folks too. 90% of the faculty I worked with were lovely- a bit discombobulated at time and a little flaky occasionally, but generally good people. However, I have heard many many horror stories from other departments on campus and I was happy I was working with my physics folks. They needed some hand holding to (somehow getting a Nobel Prize does not mean you can remember to turn in travel receipts), but very much enjoyed working with them. I’m sorry you’re having such a rough time of it. I do know some Universities have a very strong Staff vs Faculty culture and that can be really toxic.

    8. Nonameforthis*

      Faculty as customers are definitely a particular group. I got burned out in a direct support role and now am buffered a bit. While I have worked with many lovely faculty members and have a lot of respect for what they do, there are a lot of high-maintenance, temperamental, and “special” personalities in those positions as well.

      It’s tough. I really believe in the mission of higher ed but this is just one of the things that goes along with it.

      1. Anon for this one*

        I think higher education is super, super important, but I don’t have a passion for it. But I do really feel for our students. I field a lot of complaints about our faculty from the undergrads, who are honestly our bread and butter. But the faculty has a really crappy elitist attitude and prefers to focus on the graduate students, who only account for about 3% of our students. I’ve sat in so many meetings where our faculty has just dragged the undergrads because they “don’t have the drive” to go to graduate school. And then they wonder why UG enrollment is down. Gee….

    9. Anonz*

      I think this attitude is particularly prominent in R1 institutions. I’ve found our faculty (the vast majority, don’t @ me) don’t really care about their students, classes, or how they treat literally anyone 1) not in a position of power over them or 2) someone they need to improve/maintain their reputation. The only thing that secures their job is their research performance and there are no consequences for being unprofessional. They’re unwilling to be understanding or reasonable and don’t care who knows it even when you’re only trying to help them.

      1. nom de plume*

        This depends incredibly on 1) the discipline (hard / soft money) and 2) the type of institution and its culture. Not all R1s are like this, by any stretch of the imagination. I did my PhD at an R1 that placed tremendous emphasis on *undergrad* teaching, and collegiality even between faculty mattered a lot. There’s a lot of dishing on higher ed on this website, and on faculty in particular – but really, a lot is uninformed.

  28. Gidget*

    Just a tiny need to vent. Screwed something up at work this week. I arranged to have a speaker visit an organization. Apparently I was also supposed to go along. No one made that clear to me. So I didn’t go. My supervisor on finding out I did not go (the day after the event) said she was “sad” and “mad” that I did not attend. While it has blown over mostly, I really didn’t need that level of guilt on a week where I was already really stuggling with negative feelings. Sigh.

    1. Wing Leader*

      Sorry! Have you told your supervisor that it wasn’t made clear to you that you were supposed to go? As long as she understands that you didn’t just skip out on purpose or out of rebellion, it really shouldn’t be a big deal.

      1. Gidget*

        I did. I told her immediately. And I have already come up with ways to turn it around. It was just a bummer.

        1. Leisel*

          That was a strange way for your supervisor to react. Saying you’re mad about something is a little immature, especially considering that it was an honest mistake. Saying that you’re “sad” is just…odd.

          I think you need to re-frame this in your mind. You didn’t screw up. You made an honest mistake because the instructions were not clearly communicated to you. Is there a pattern in your office where things get blown out of proportion?

          1. Gidget*

            This is a good point. I know it really was an issue of poor communication. Add to that, everyone is always a little on edge. Big boss is very formidable and mistakes are not well tolerated. This has happened before– where I was expected to do something but no one made it clear (and in that case actually encouraged me to do something different). Yes, sad was a strange choice. She came to me and said “I’m sad. You didn’t go.” and then another coworker walked by and asked what was up and she said, “I’m mad at Gidget because she didn’t go to the thing.” Sigh. Just trying to keep powering through to my exit plan.

        2. Havarti*

          Don’t be too hard on yourself. These things happen when people don’t make their expectations clear. So your supervisor being mad and sad is ridiculous if she didn’t at some point say “Hey Gidget, I want you to go to this thing.” Were you supposed to go to provide support for the visit or as an attendee? But at least now you know to ask for a straight answer next time since your supervisor apparently thinks telepathy is a thing.

          1. Gidget*

            It’s not really clear why I was supposed to go. Apparently my being there would have helped “build the relationship” even though I was just going to be in the room.

            Sadly, telepathy is an expectation of this job. An unrealistic one, but one nonetheless.

            1. Jeffrey Deutsch*

              Sadly, telepathy is an expectation of this job. An unrealistic one, but one nonetheless.

              That would be a deal-breaker for me.

              As would emotional manipulation. “Sad” and “mad”? C’mon!

            2. Not So NewReader*

              The event planner seems to somehow function as the glue that holds the event together. Even if all they do is sit in the audience.

              I remember one event here in the community, where the planner did not attend. Many people said, “Where is Jane?” People who were key participants felt the event was “less than” because Jane did not show up to her own event.
              I can’t put my finger on the exact reason but Jane was the one who was the person-in-common for all of us.
              The following year less people attended and participated because some how the message was, “This isn’t that important.”

            3. LeighTX*

              I once had a boss tell me, “I need you to do a better job of knowing what I am thinking.” Considering that HE didn’t know what he was thinking at least half the time, it was an impossible hurdle and I did not last much longer at that job! I’m sorry you’re being held to such a standard and hope you can either figure out things you’re not told, or find a better (and more reasonable) workplace. :)

    2. A Simple Narwhal*

      Woof, sorry about that, it totally sucks! But I 100% get that feeling – in the moment, you made a decision based off the information you had, but now with hindsight and new info you’re kicking yourself and telling yourself that you should have somehow known that extra info and why oh why didn’t I do that?? Try not to be so hard on yourself, you did what you could with the info you had at the time. It’s kinda lame to get that guilt trip from your boss, it’s a pretty weird take on what went down so I’d try to not dwell on that a lot.

      You mentioned in a response that you found “ways to turn it around” – I hope this is a mental reframing and not a “I have to make it up to my boss” self-flagellating thing. Because really the main thing that should come from this is that you now know to specifically ask if you should attend the things you plan. Just remember that you are an adult who made a small mistake at work, not a naughty child who has disappointed a parent. (And maybe I’m offbase and they aren’t treating you that way or you aren’t taking it that way, just wanted to throw it in, just in case.)

      1. Gidget*

        This is a really good point. Partially a reframe. But partially a way of making up for the apparently missed opportunity. But yes, I now know to be way more explicit about asking for details.

    3. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      To state that she’s “sad” you didn’t attend the event is weirdly passive-aggressive and oddly emotionally invested from your supervisor. Are there any other signs of passive-aggressive traits from her I wonder?

      I’ve stated directly to people (rather than actually acting angry, for example like the letter the other day where the guy was breaking keyboards to express anger!) that I am “annoyed”, “disappointed”, “surprised” etc with some situation, but it wouldn’t occur to me to be “sad” over some administrative oversight and if I were, I don’t think I would express it to the person involved.

      1. Gidget*

        It’s generally a little bit of a strange environment. Supervisor is definitely sort of the department Mom– both because of job duties and personality. So it has made for some weird not totally professional overly personal moments.

    4. willow for now*

      At least you did not send her to Naples, Italy instead of Naples, Florida. (IIRC)

  29. It's just me*

    Good morning, and TGIF to everyone! I’m curious to hear what, if anything your workplaces are doing about Coronavirus, if anything. For context, I’m in Ohio where there have been no recorded cases as of right now, and we employ about 30 people in manufacturing/warehousing.

    1. Justme, the OG*

      I work in HIED and we’ve had some meetings. Our department head and assistant director both have asked what technology or training we need to be able to work from home for any extended period. We were also told that if we don’t feel well, we can work from home (which is the norm but was reiterated). We’re also a few weeks out from spring break so we’re wondering if anything will happen afterwards.

    2. ThatGirl*

      I’m in suburban Chicago, in a marketing role at a CPG company. There are about 5 cases in the state, none in my county, and it’s not something I’m currently worried about – but my company did send out a basic “hey wash your hands and stay home if you feel sick” email, and my manager reiterated that in our team meeting. Most of the company could work from home if it came to it, but we also had a crackdown last year on regular working from home, so I have no idea if they would tell everyone to do that if there were a serious local outbreak.

      That said we do have a warehouse not far away and obviously that can’t be done from home – and it would definitely be a big hit to the company if we weren’t able to ship. So I hope that the warehouse workers are getting the same encouragements. Better a little short-staffed than no staff.

    3. eshrai*

      I work for a government agency close to where there have been coronavirus cases and deaths. Our agency told us to wash our hands and stay home if sick. Other than that there are no measures taken. My co-workers don’t understand what the concern is. “its just like the flu, who cares? What’s the big deal?” is what I hear around here.

      1. It's just me*

        This is what I’m afraid of running into here as well. There’s very much a “you show up unless you’ve got one foot in the grave” kind of mentality. So I’ve got an uphill battle ahead of me. I think I’ll focus on a contingency plan for if we do end up being short staffed.

      2. new kid*

        What is the concern though? I ask that honestly, not trolling. Everything I’ve read beyond splashy headlines sounds like the flu to me, ie. yes, people should be taking precautions but essentially the same precautions we should be taking already because we’re still in flu season.

        1. ...*

          I think the concern is that the death rate is significantly higher than the flu. 2-3% vs. the .01% that die with flu.

          1. ThatGirl*

            We don’t know the final death (mortality) rate yet – many of the first infected in China were elderly and sick. As it spreads among more healthy people the mortality rate will probably be much lower.

            Also influenza mortality rates vary from year to year.

          2. Clisby*

            I’m pretty sure the figure from the flu is 0.1%, not .01%. At least, that’s according to Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.

        2. Avasarala*

          The concern is that people aren’t taking proper precautions to even deal with the flu, nevermind a new virus that nobody has immunity to, that is very contagious and possibly fatal.

    4. No Tribble At All*

      We’ve canceled all work-related travel, and they now have anti-microbial soap in the bathroom :/

      The soap annoys me because anti-microbial soap is less effective against coronaviruses than alcohol-based disinfectants, and anti-microbial soap helps create drug-resistant bacteria. I emailed the office manager about this (with citations!) but she said people have asked for it. Darnit people, we don’t need to create a superbug at the same time as COVID-19.

    5. carlottamousse*

      Sounds like Alison may be doing a specific open thread on this topic on Monday, FYI.

    6. LDN Layabout*

      I work for a healthcare regulator in the UK, some BAU stuff has been put on hold so people higher-up can devote more time to preparedness work. We’re also going to have a decent number of people being seconded out to organisations at the forefront of the work.

      Honestly, working where I do and getting regular updates is actually making me less stressed about it all.

    7. Constance Lloyd*

      I’m also in Ohio. There are about 60 people in our office. Housekeeping is going to disinfect door handles more often, they have posted hand washing signs in the bathrooms, and we have been encouraged to stay home if were sick, using pto or flexing time as needed. My particular role involves traveling throughout the state to meet members of the community we serve, so I already make sure I’m stocked up in hand sanitizer. Overall it’s business as usual here, no different from any other cold or flu season.

    8. Salty Caramel*

      I’m lucky as heck. We have cleaning people who are constantly on the job, hand sanitizing stations, and a generous WFH policy.

      1. Salty Caramel*

        and an insurance company just came in and handed out tiny bottles of hand sanitizer

    9. Coverage Associate*

      San Francisco. Coworker who had a layover through South Korea is home for 2 weeks with pay. A little extra carefulness about communal food offerings in the break room. That’s all that’s visible for now.

    10. Merci Dee*

      I’m in Alabama, and we currently have no cases reported here. I work in the accounting department for an auto parts manufacturing company.

      On the production side, it’s an either/or kind of thing — either workers are here and we’re making parts, or the lines are shut down and no one’s working out there. There’s not really any work-from-home option for manufacturing.

      On the admin side, we’ve never had the option to work from home for the ~10 years I’ve been here. I don’t know if that’s being investigated as an option for the office workers. In theory, everyone in my department could work from home if we needed to. All our accounting docs are submitted and processed through a cloud-based system, and our PRs/POs, etc. are processed through a separate system that also allows remote access. The biggest hurdles that I can see right now are a lack of laptops for everyone to take home to work with, and whatever challenges the IT folks would have to overcome to allow 100+ admin staff to remotely access our systems.

      In general, I noticed yesterday when I was leaving for a trip to the post office that new hand sanitizer stations have been installed next to all the time clocks, the doors in/out of the building, and in the break room areas. Management has also put up signs around the building reminding people to frequently wash hands, cough/sneeze into your elbow, and stay home if you’re not well. Basically, raising awareness about common-sense safeguards and urging people to be more aware of their health.

    11. Mama Bear*

      Watching and waiting. Currently there are few telework opportunities and that is unlikely to shift unless Covid-19 lands on our building a la Wizard of Oz.

    12. Lora*

      In New England (specifically, MA and NH):

      Three executives from a major pharma company headquartered in Cambridge MA had the dumb idea to call a big Head Honchos Meeting in Boston, 175 senior level managers. Three of them have since been diagnosed with Covid-19. Now all 175 are staying home in self-quarantine, and MA doesn’t have a great sense of humor about that and will definitely make sure they stay home. Colleagues tell me an edict has gone out that all external meetings & job interviews shall now be held via Skype.

      One idiot who actually works for Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center was diagnosed, told to self-quarantine, and then later went out to a university party thrown at a big event center, exposing hundreds of people. He was told again to stay the fk home, and all those people now have to be tested and quarantined too, in addition to his buddy who was diagnosed after having close contact with him. NH is less good than MA about enforcing quarantines.

      My employer is currently screening visitors, including vendors, and anyone who has traveled to Iran, Italy, Japan, Hong Kong, China, South Korea is not allowed in. Business travel to those areas is banned. Business travel within those areas (e.g. from one part of China to another) requires special approval, which is mostly not given anyway as we have shut down our China facilities until further notice. Hand sanitizer is sold out everywhere, but since we are a pharma manufacturing company, we have loads of pharmaceutical-grade alcohol and gelling agents in stock, and we’ve made batches of our own for employees. They’re grumpy at one of our small molecule sites because acetaminophen is sold out too, but I think they are missing one of the raw materials so cannot make their own – also, the bulk chemical is made at the one site and the tableting / capsule making is done at other sites, and shipping is not any fun at all right now. If you’re sick, you have to report to the on site nurse, can expect to be told to work from home.

      1. Alice*

        “NH is less good than MA about enforcing quarantines.”

        Well, you move from MA to NH because you want to be free, right? ;)

            1. Lora*

              well. Heck. I was just told that my colleagues in the Schengen Area and EU do not believe that the US is tracking the disease properly and therefore ALL international business travel that is not 100% business critical has been banned.

              I have to say they have a point.

              1. nonprofit director*

                I am in the US and I think our federal government is handling this terribly in terms of tracking and testing and just about everything else.

    13. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      I’m at a small university in California. Events for large groups of people are being cancelled left and right and at this point in the academic year that means a lot of guest lectures, award ceremonies, alumni events, dinner/dances, and a rumor that graduation is going to be different somehow; but that one is still a few months off. Any travel on university business has also been eliminated — no recruitment fairs or conferences for example. We’ve always had hand sanitizer stations around campus and signs to wash hands and stay home when sick, so other than reminders that hasn’t changed.

    14. Teekanne aus Schokolade*

      Hubs works for a major healthcare tech provider here in Germany and everyone has been prepped to start home office at a moment’s notice. Otherwise the Germans don’t seem to care overmuch.

    16. Fikly*

      Those who are not remote are being told to bring their laptops home every night. Anyone who travels (primarily sales) is being told that they will face no consequences (and this is believable) if they don’t want to travel, and to make anything over video if they want to.

      Located in one of the areas with cases, and I work for a company with unlimited sick days and PTO, for context.

    17. Anon for this one*

      UK – there’s been confirmed cases ~10 miles down the road from me. My workplace is currently proceed as normal but enabling as many people to work from home as possible in the event of an outbreak.

      I’m more worried about the impact on the “bigger picture” economy (e.g. FlyBe) than on fluey health symptoms etc. Yes it will be fatal to some, but so is flu. Mass panic and shutting down production lines etc is going to result in massive economic impact, layoffs, companies going bust, etc. Then there are health impacts on the people laid off (stress and so on).

    18. Not So Little My*

      I’m in Seattle. My company and other big name companies you will have heard of, have moved all large meetings to online and have asked everyone who is able to, to work from home until the end of the month. My spouse and I are trying to stay out of each other’s hair. I’m also frustrated at many of the technical tools I need not being available or functional consistently, and not being able to just walk over to my colleagues’ desks to ask questions. I think it’s an ongoing process, we’ll all have to be patient and figure out ways to adapt.

    19. Gatomon*

      We received an email to stay home if we’re sick, and that’s it. I guess we’d all work from home if need be – maybe we’ll have fewer meetings? No cases here yet, but it’s only a matter of time (if it’s not already circulating.)

      We’re getting warned of longer lead times from our vendors, all of whom probably are dependent on China (electronics). Whatever we have to order in is already impact, and what we keep in stock will run low eventually. I’m expecting angry customers and angry management when things start to slow down due to lack of parts.

  30. A Simple Narwhal*

    I’m conducting interviews for the first time next week! I’ve never done this before but I’ve been prepping which includes reading the backlogs here and coming up with questions, so I hope it goes ok. They’re only half hour interviews for a student co-op position so worse comes to worse it’s a low role that only lasts a few months, but still, I can’t believe I’m interviewing and choosing people. Oh yea, while I will be discussing things with my manager afterwards I pretty much get to choose who we hire. Yikes! I’m kinda nervous, I don’t want to be a bad interviewer (I’ve experienced plenty of those!) or pick a bad person. But I am excited since this is kind of a step up in responsibilities and it seems to be part of a bigger plan to groom me for bigger and better things.

    So yea I guess no question, but I’d be open to advice if anyone had anything to toss my way!

    1. Oh No She Di'int*

      Congrats on getting this responsibility! A few mistakes I’ve noticed when people on my staff interview candidates:

      * Asking questions phrased in a way that the only way to answer them is with the positive response the interviewer is hoping for: “So are you pretty comfortable with Excel?”
      * “Rescuing” the candidate too quickly. You want to know who they really are and what they really think. Sometimes a candidate gets antsy or nervous or at a loss for words. I’ve seen interviewers jump in and try to rescue them by essentially answering their own questions, so the candidate just ends up saying, “Yeah. Yeah, I agree with that.” If the candidate struggles, that’s valuable information you need.
      * Failing to provide context/information about the company or job. The candidate should be given the opportunity to gear their answers to the specific case. That’s easier to do if you’ve described the role and a bit about the context for them.
      * Hearing indecision/vagueness as an asset. This is a big one. Sometimes candidates say vague things about why they’re interested in the job or what they plan to do with their futures. I’ve noticed that less experienced interviewers will hear that as an asset, as in, “Oh she doesn’t really know much about this industry. So she’s open to anything!” No, you want people who are affirmatively excited about the specific job you are offering and who have an identifiable reason for having that job.

      You’re interviewing students, so maybe all of this doesn’t fit. But hope some of it helps!

      1. A Simple Narwhal*

        Thank you, I appreciate it!

        I figured out what information I’m trying to get out of them and then worked backward to develop a set of open-ended questions, so hopefully that avoids the worst pitfalls!

      2. irene adler*

        These are fantastic suggestions!

        Listen to your gut. If there’s something inside you that says “No, not this candidate”-listen to it.
        You aren’t going to run out of candidates. Move on to the next one.

    2. Miraculous Ladybug*

      Commenting here to follow any advice you get, because I too will be conducting interviews for interns for the first time next week! Same thing–I’ll be talking with my manager but I get to pick our person and interview and all of it. So nervous, but so exciting!! Congrats to you, I hope everything goes well :)

    3. Fikly*

      There’s an ongoing debate about fairness in interviews and using identical questions. There’s valid arguments on each side.

      Where I come down on it is that it’s generally good to start with an identical set of questions, because that does reduce bias, but then you need to allow for unique follow up questions, because otherwise you are both hindering your ability to learn the most you can about each candidate, which will often end up in not extending an offer to the best candidate.

  31. Overeducated*

    TWO jobs I’ve been waiting to see listed for the last year (transfers within my large national org) are open for applications right now. I haven’t had time to apply for either yet, but I’m actually vibrating with nerves over one of them because it would allow me to move out of the big city I’m in to a slightly smaller, cheaper city we’ve been interested in for a while. Then there are two more I wasn’t expecting that I’m not quite as excited about, but would probably take if offered. I’m in a super niche field and geographically restricted, so this is like a hiring bonanza. Wish me luck with all, please!

  32. I LOVE BIG BROTHER*

    I’ve been miserable at my job for most of the last decade. I’ve been bullied, I’ve been transferred into areas I don’t have skills in or want to work in (call center), I’ve gone through tons of managers in the last few years alone, we can’t keep staff, new management seems to have no clue what to do other than to shuffle positions around, etc. However, I have not been able to find another job because I can’t find any jobs that I qualify for any more. I have a rare skill set that no other job but this one uses, I don’t do any financial work in my position as a clerical worker and now every single job wants you to be running a call center and doing all of the office finances, and I cannot stand to do either of those things. I’ve been told in interviews that they don’t want to train anyone. I’ve done career counseling multiple times, nothing is working, God has not opened any windows, skylights, or mouseholes for me to leave, etc. My industry wants you to have 95% of the qualifications for a job and I can’t get hired because I don’t have 100%–that’s according to the org’s career counselor.

    All I want is any job where I type in the corner and people forget I exist, but that doesn’t exist any more. I have accepted that I am trapped here until death or firing because my other options are homelessness and/or death. Due to health insurance reasons, I will never become an entrepreneur/freelancer and I am single so cannot depend on a spouse’s help/income. I have 20+ years to go until retirement. I absolutely can’t quit and live off savings, as I had to replace my car this year and that’s where my savings went. I say all this because I need to reiterate that voluntarily leaving the job, no matter how bad it is, isn’t an option.

    I am not Little Mary Sunshine. I do privately vent among my other disgruntled coworkers that still remain here. I am not a happy service personality like they want since I get upset at dealing with upset clientele. I am really angry and sick of being told that literally nothing can ever be done to make anything better around here, for years on end. I am trying to hide my rage, upset and misery as hard as I can and fake happiness, which isn’t good enough.

    My most recent manager and grandboss Sat Me Down for an hour and twenty minutes to nitpick and complain about every aspect of my behavior, continually complaining that I’m not a natural early bird (I am really low energy in the morning and they HATE this), wondering why I don’t just find another job already (see above, which I actually explained to them), and I was flat out told by my boss that I have to be GENUINELY HAPPY, NOT FAKING IT, from now on, all the time, no matter what. Grandboss said, “don’t go that far, but fake it until you make it.”

    I concede that I am a horrible person. I don’t enjoy service work, that was not my original job that I applied for here, but I was forced to do it or else get canned. It makes me wish I was dead, that’s how awful it is to me. But I truly can’t find any other options in this world either. Every job is a public service job for a clerical worker and I can’t get transferred out of public service here either. However, I’m good at what I do, I’m the only one that does it, and they would be very screwed if I dropped dead tomorrow. I don’t get why they are doing this to me when at the same time they know that nobody else can get through the workload that I can.

    But…seriously, isn’t this unreasonable and too Big Brother of them to demand that I be genuinely happy here? Am I completely insane? I’m trying to put on Happy Face, but I literally can’t convince anyone I’m happy either (after this confrontation, I was out sick for a solid week, throwing up). I just feel like they are denying my humanity here and this is a completely unreasonable thing to ask me, especially when they know how bad things are here. I just want to know how I’m supposed to deal with this level of standards they hold against me when “leave” is absolutely not an option.

    1. WorkerBee173*

      Yes and no.

      If you’re constantly sitting in the corner, being miserable, then you’ll ooze unhappiness and that can affect the whole workplace more than you realize, even if you almost never interact with your co-workers.

      Have you considered non-work related coaching? Simply to help you work through things and see if you can let go of stuff? In part because being miserable for the next 20 years is a bleak future and in part because, honestly, no one is indispensable. Even if you’re the only person in the whole building who knows how to work the coffee machine or whatever, I can assure you that management can find a way around it if they wanted to, and it sounds a bit like they’re starting to entertain that thought.

      So, for your own sake, I’d let go of the Big Brother stuff, and instead take this as a welcomed boot-to-the-rear, and start working on ways to become happier in my own life. Who knows, in the end, that might even translate into a new job opportunity, since selling “I’m a miserable loner who’d rather not interact with the world at all” seriously takes someone who can sell icecubes to Eskimos, and you don’t sound like that type of person :)

      Good luck, and I hope things improve for you.

    2. I'm A Little Teapot*

      There’s a difference between not being chirpy and cheerful, and being determined to be miserable. Honestly, you sound determined to be miserable. And yes, they can (and should) insist on a minimum level of pleasantness. And yes, they could figure out how to cope if you left. It might cause chaos for a while, but they’d figure it out.

      Take a step back, look at your life, and throw out the option of being stuck at this company, miserable for the rest of time. Sounds like you need to investigate a career change. Sounds like you need to investigate if you have depression or something that can be improved. Just because you’re not gong to be bouncing off the walls happy doesn’t mean you have to be hiding in the basement unhappy.

      1. Viette*

        I second this. The OP’s job clearly makes them incredibly miserable, and yes, it’s very reasonable for her bosses to say that oozing misery and complaining are not acceptable behaviors. Other people at work suffer from them, and they’re not professional, as Alison has said many times. But I think there’s a lot of defeat and depression (“I concede that I am a horrible person” is not a productive way to look at this) in this letter that makes me skeptical of the supposed finality of the situation. When you’re depressed and miserable and things seem hopeless, it’s often incredibly difficult to imagine anything ever improving, but OP, you can’t just live this way forever. As you yourself said: it makes you wish you were dead. I strongly second the suggestion below to go to therapy — this is not a sustainable situation. You sound profoundly burnt-out, depressed, and hopeless, and you say yourself that you struggle to “hide [your] rage, upset and misery.” You mention being upset and angry over and over. If you can’t change your job you have to change something, because you can’t do this for 20+ years. Do you really think you can? Who could?

        Honestly, though, if the question really is, “I have absolutely no choice but to be angry and miserable for the rest of my life. Is it okay for my bosses to insist that I always behave pleasantly at work anyway?” the answer is: yes. Yes, it is.

        They sound like they’re going about it kind of clumsily, but nothing they’ve done and said is wildly outside the norm. So I would put all the energy and effort you have into changing your circumstance in any way you can, because they can indeed tell you that and they can indeed fire you for not complying.

    3. Speaking from Experience*

      do you have the ability to start seeing a therapist? when you can’t change your circumstances, they can be invaluable in helping share strategies that make your life more livable. it sounds like you’re really at the breaking point, and you absolutely deserve better. since you can’t change your external circumstances right now, inner work might be a good place to start.

      1. Moira Rose's sentient wig*

        ↑ This right here! ILBB, if you can, please talk to someone.

        It sounds like you’re depressed. One of the worst parts of depression is it robs you of the ability to see situations objectively. You’re describing normal workplace activities in extreme terms – that your bosses complained about you, staged a confrontation, and are denying your humanity. Heck, you are using 1984 to describe this scenario.

        I’m not doubting you at all, because lots of customer jobs suck. But please know that you have more control over this situation than you think.

    4. NaoNao*

      I think the way to be “happy” (genuinely happy) at work is to find a way, however small, to practice gratitude AND to use perception to “fake it”. I used to work at a very difficult call center situation so I get it. I was at the “taking nips of bourbon on lunch break” level so I really do get it. (I’m now sober for almost 3 years so I’m doing much better!)

      I was able to leverage some call center skills into a much better “knowledge worker” job but….it required me leaving the country and living and working in SE Asia. So that’s not an option it sounds like for you. But maybe consider it? Moving on…

      I would first check out Captain Awkward especially “how to keep it together at work when you’re depressed”.

      Focus on outside of work—what work is “buying” you. Most call center jobs, the one upside is—when you’re clocked out you’re DONE for the day. So invest in your heath—work out, meditate, meal plan, journal, get a pet, really invest in your outside of work life. Find hobbies and passions. Just go to work, clock in, get through it and clock out. I don’t know your exact age, but I’d like to recommend maybe tinkering with supplements and vitamins/natural remedies for more energy and focus. I take a supplement marketed towards women in menopause (which I’m not but I’m pretty sure I’m getting there!) called Energy and WOW it’s a lifesaver. So much more focus and energy. I got it at Whole Foods I think it’s called Doctor Woman or something.

      Give yourself a treat every day. Maybe time some packages to arrive after work at home 2 days a week, take a stroll at lunch, grab a Starbucks and sip it slowly. Look into meal delivery services like Hello Fresh—they have indulgent meals that are home made and easy to make and feel like a treat. Have something to look forward to every day, even if it’s a new TV show, a movie or book from the library. Take a stack of glossy mags into the bath with a wine or sparkling water.

      Dress up for work–have fun with fashion. Wear your outrageous scarves, vintage clothes, fun shoes, and carry a fun tote. If you’re key to the org and they’re not going to fire you, what can they do, right? Make dressing for the day a ritual of self love and expression.

      If you’re able, maybe decorating your desk, laptop, station, phone, etc–will help people perceive “happiness” where maybe there isn’t a ton. Use bright florals, happy bright colors, stuffed animals, framed inspirational quotes, etc. Create a “this person is happy!” vibe and maybe let that do some of the lifting.

      Wear bright colors if you are able. Again, a bright pink, red, coral, or happy floral print shirt might tip the scales a bit in terms of how people perceive you even if it’s not real.

      Bring in food! Grab donuts and leave them on the break room table—and this is important, toot your own horn with a company wide email about it. I personally love baking for stress relief—maybe try some new recipes and bring those in.

      Circulate a weekly inspirational email. Go on Google and find a stock pic of a soaring eagle or something and be like “I’m trying to practice gratitude and inspiration for March. Who’s with me?” Don’t rely on having a happy attitude every minute—just do these public gestures and let the reputation do the work.

      Use well worn work cliches to build rapport “Thank god it’s Friday, right?” “Fri-yay!” “Gosh, is this week going fast for you?” and so on. Just go through the motions as if you were “that” coworker—make sure these are upbeat cliches tho!

      Put a perky away message or sign off in your emails.

      Get a diffuser or scent plug in that smells like grapefruit, wear a fruity fragrance. (If you’re allowed). Put an unlit grapefruit candle on your desk or use grapefruit lotion. People really like this scent and it’s not too over the top.

      I get that some of these might not work or feel foolish. But you’re clearly very stuck and I hope some of these help.

    5. Juneybug*

      I am sorry you are going through this! It does not sound fun at all. My suggestion is to focus on what you can change (different job, obtain training, stop telling yourself that you are a horrible person, …) instead of what can’t change (become chirpy in the morning, suddenly love your job, …).
      Some books that might help –
      Everything Is Figureoutable by Marie Forleo
      The Proximity Principle: The Proven Strategy That Will Lead to a Career You Love by Ken Coleman
      48 Days to the Work You Love by Dan Miller
      Start.: Punch Fear in the Face, Escape Average, and Do Work That Matters by Jon Acuff

    6. Fikly*

      You being unhappy, and other people telling you that you are not fulfilling all the requirements for a job (even if they are right!) does not make you a horrible person. Take this from someone who spent a lifetime hating theirself.

    7. Youth*

      It’s preferable to have a job you like. But I think that if you find ways to enjoy the rest of your life more, being at this job won’t bother you as much.

      First, counseling. Formal counseling and therapy if possible. Informal counseling/therapy with family, friends, and your journal if it’s not. Don’t have a journal? Grab one this weekend.

      Second, other forms of intervention. Go to your primary physician first, then to a specialist if needed. Find out if depression/anxiety medication is available for you. (My therapist says, “First you get anxious, then you get depressed.” I’m guessing that anxiety about the future in this dead-end job helped bring your mood low.) Also consult with your doc about other potential health problems. Not getting enough vitamin D can make you feel depressed. Not getting enough exercise, sleep, or good food can make you feel depressed.

      You say you’re single. I know from experience that the stress of providing for yourself, with no respite in sight even if you get physically or mentally ill, can be a huge burden. Once you have your mental/emotional ducks more in a row, consider trying to date. Not necessarily to resolve your single status; keep your expectations low. But just to have fun. When I stopped taking dating so seriously and just started looking for nice, fun people who wanted to grab dinner or ice cream, I had a much better experience. And having a date scheduled gave me something to look forward to.

      That’s dating. Similarly, but differentlywhile you’re trying to pick yourself up emotionally, invest in your relationships with friends and family. Go to the movies with them; invite them over to cook dinner with you. Talk on the phone with them. Tell them you’re having a hard time and garner their support. You’ll be able to focus less on work and feel better about the rest of your life. If you don’t have those relationships, try to build them. Reach out to your roommates, or coworkers, or anyone else you know who has friend potential.

      Try to help others. If you notice someone else struggling, do what you can for them. Don’t sacrifice your own health for them, but extend small gestures of kindness. You’ll feel better about yourself and feel more at peace if you do.

      Keep hoping. Things do change. Something may yet open up.

    8. Not So NewReader*

      Your job is my idea of a nightmare. It’s the classic, “The beatings will continue until morale improves.”

      Don’t work your way toward being that old person in the nursing home who says, “I should have taken more chances. I should have realized I could find options if I looked harder.”

      My guess is that you have a job where you see the public at their worst. Other employers offering different types of things have a different relationship with the public. The public is NICER and happier. The boss steps in if a member of the public is out of line with you. I am not seeing any of this going on right now. You can help yourself by reassuring yourself that not all jobs are this horrible.

      I have a friend who looks for jobs with the least contact with the public and least amount of telephone work, she seems to find them. I know she started with a temp agency and then finally got hired permanently by her current employer.

    9. Part Time Poet*

      Btw, there is a whole lot of guidance from Alison on this site as to how to handle this employee. Her site is very searchable for these topics. As a devoted reader, I am pretty sure she would ask why you haven’t fired him already. I’m concerned, too, that you are more concerned about your tone in confronting him when he was absolutely in the wrong than you are about firing him to preserve the integrity of the rest of your team and the work that needs to be done. His attitude must also be affecting the rest of your team. What about how they feel about working with him, especially since he seems to be clogging up the work flow with his obstinate behavior?

      I know from personal management experience, that once the disruptive bad apples are gone, the good employees are so happy and much more motivated and productive without the pall of the bad seeds being there everyday spreading their vermin.

  33. The Mouse*

    A friend was recently accused of calling a co-worker the N word. This was a shocking and fairly unbelievable accusation (everyone else my friend works with doesn’t believe he said it). The accuser has since disappeared. Is there anything he should do to protect himself? FWIW, I think it’s still important to take the accusation seriously and investigate thoroughly even though I don’t think he said it.

        1. Nita*

          I don’t think it would even make sense to investigate what your friend may or may not have said, until they figure out what happened to his accuser.

        2. valentine*

          I don’t blame them.
          They: *disclose racism*
          Y’all: I don’t believe it!

          Can you fully investigate something you don’t believe?

          Consider that you’ll never know wholly know your friend. For example, you can’t know them from the POV of a Black person.

          This is a good time to think about acts of racism you wouldn’t recognize and might never occur to you were a problem, much less racism.

        3. Mama Bear*

          IMO then I hope HR considers the source during the investigation. If he abandoned his post, he needs to be officially fired. If it’s found that he made it up, he should be fired. If I were your friend, I’d be very careful for the short term in my interactions with people, and absolutely not try to contact the accuser in any way (even though the accuser has vanished).

        4. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

          Hypothetically because I wouldn’t do something like that:
          I think if I’d tried to cause trouble by falsely accusing someone of ‘whatever it was’ (using the n-word in this case), got busted in a lie – I think I’d make myself scarce as well!

          Personally I don’t think we should take accusations seriously just because somebody said it and then ghosted. Presumably there aren’t any witnesses so what’s to investigate anyway?

    2. Leo*

      Well, from my limited experience going through this as the person who reported bad behavior, basically the thing to do is to cooperate fully with the investigation. And not talk about it with people outside of HR. And be professional and polite with the person who accused him and not try to retaliate in any way. It could turn out to be a misunderstanding. I’ve heard of high-profile cases where it turned out that the person said a word that *sounded* like this word. Or your friend could be lying to you. In either case, best to just trust in the process unless you have reason not to – then maybe get a lawyer?

  34. MOAS*

    This week… my coworker came up to our tech guy (he sits right next to me) and asked him. “how do I do x?”……Last week she SHOWED MY TEAM HOW TO DO X. 

    She came up to us this week and asked us.. “what’s a server?” … my coworker and I answered for her but it was something very easy to google. 

    “Do you know what the new group chat is about? is anyone else in it?” — I pointed to my screen where she can see the exact same stuff I was seeing — i.e. the message and the group participants. 

    Maybe this is her way of trying to connect with us, I’m not sure.

    Someone suggested to me that maybe I should coach her to be a better manager (there’s other stuff not in the examples above that have happened over the last few months). Her team will be better off, and it will make me look better to my boss. And, I totally think that could work in a functional place with reasonable leadership! (/s b/c this is def not us)

    1. Zona the Great*

      Holy mackerel! She is a manager!? Yes this screams of contrived ways to connect which turn me off like no other. I would have a very hard time not killing her with dirty looks each time she asked me something like that.

      1. MOAS*

        Yup, manager. NGL, my coworkers’ mouth fell open when she asked that question.

        She’s said that she’ll stay late and contact clients herself b/c she doesnt want to go back and forth with her employee rather than coach them on how to do the work and speak to teh client.

        She’s been doing free work for clients because other people ask her to and she won’t push back — that sucks for her but it also puts the rest of us in a bad position because word will get around and our clients will get angry that my team won’t give them free work. (it’s against company policy to give free work).

        Recently we had a spot check of our work and she did something that is very much against the rules of our profession and company and she argued back with our bosses. Her boss wanted to brush it off, my boss persisted.

        She frequently says “I wasn’t there” to get out of training her staff, acting on information that was provided in meetings (even though she literally was there) and the work falling on me — her boss knows about this and doesn’t gaf.

        I’m not her boss and her boss is..ugh. so I can’t do much except just brush it off.

        1. Mama Bear*

          I would document everything, so that when something inevitably hits the fan, it’s been said/noted/reported that it’s not you. Her boss may not care, but does yours?

          1. MOAS*

            he is very much in my corner, and he’s upset about how she’s being managed but she’s not on his team so he can’t step in wtihout getting VP involved. Unfo our VP loves her and will not hear anything bad about her. It’s messy.

    2. Amethystmoon*

      I once had a coworker like that, who was not a manager. He lasted 3 years and was always asking questions like that, but about his job. Yes, I brought it up to our manager. No, he was never fired, he left on his own.

  35. Forwhy*

    Any advice on dealing with coworkers in another country when you don’t know if it’s a cultural difference, a language barrier, or an attitude?

    I work with people in a few different areas globally and I’m having an issue with an employee in another country. This person doesn’t speak English as a first language, but typically communicates well both verbally and in writing. We’re both under the same general part of our organization and work closely together, but we are not in the same chain of command until you get much closer to the top. In both title and seniority I am above him, but we both have people answering to us with the same title.

    About every 2-3 weeks this person will reply to a bunch of emails in a way that I find demanding and somewhat rude. They will try to assign work to my team or claim that my team is not doing enough to help them on a project. It’s a lot of language like “what are you going to do to ensure this” and “this needs to be better”. A lot of the time these emails come after I’ve made my action plan clear and known to everyone on the chain. My team is considerably smaller than his with way more responsibility. In the past when it has been suggested that they take on some of the work that their finding an issue with they’re all for it until they see the scope and the timeline and then realize that it’s an insane ask, so they can’t take it on.

    I’d like to address the perceived tone in these emails, but I’m not sure what the most tactful way to do it is.

    1. KX*

      I don’t think there is a tactful way to discuss a coworker’s tone. I think you need to acknowledge that this is how the emails will sound, that it’s just Emailer Doing Emailer, and focus on the content.

      If you think that trying to assign work to your team or blame your team unfairly for work that your team cannot do, just reply to the statements directly. If you have already explained yourself, point back to that action plan in your reply. “As I indicated on…” “My team has agreed to only do…” stuff like that.

      It is possible that this emailer is complaining locally about a person in another country who doesn’t communicate specifics, and so he never knows what is actually going on. Perhaps the blunt questions you perceive are rude are him trying to get you to pin down what you are doing.

      You have presented an action plan to everyone, but is it clear to everyone? Interpret the questions as requests for more information instead of rudeness–even if he is being rude. Even if he is badgering you with demanding questions unfairly. Just answer them and ignore the tone.

    2. Oh No She Di'int*

      I think KX above provide a really solid answer.

      I would only add that I do think you should take the cultural question seriously. I don’t know if you’re based in North America, but I have found that we have an unusually high bar for politeness in electronic communications. I know a lot of people will find that unbelievable considering how much rudeness there is on the internet, etc. But I have found it to be true. Americans and Canadians are constantly lacing their emails with “would you mind” and “if it’s ok with you” and “at your convenience” etc., etc. Many of the emails I personally receive from other parts of the world, including the UK for example tend to be much more like “do this, do that” “this needs to be done promptly” and so forth. I no longer hear these as rude, but simply as people stating what they want or need without all the needless flowery niceties.

      That’s just my experience. Obviously YMMV.

      1. MissDisplaced*

        This is very true! I’ve noticed with the Europeans the email tone is much more direct. Especially noticeable from France, Germany and Netherlands and other Northern European countries in general.
        In person, I think they are also more direct, especially about things in America that wouldn’t be considered politically correct, but then other things they’re quite proper about.

    3. Bob Howard*

      There really is such a thing as national culture. When I worked with the Dutch they were often blunt to the point of rudeness. Nothing personal; that’s just how they are.

      1. Oh No She Di'int*

        I once worked closely with a Hungarian who asked, “Why do Americans tip-toe around everything so much? Just tell me what you need.”

      2. Lora*

        Oh, this. Have worked in multiple big international companies, and as an American either I am the rudest rudest person in the whole wide universe or the nicest person in the whole world who wouldn’t say boo to a goose.

        It also comes from how strong the worker protections are in a given country. If the whole country is heavily unionized and it’s very difficult to lose your job, but even if you did there would be multiple years of decent unemployment pay – people will be very blunt and outspoken in a way that comes across as rude to countries where you can be fired for wearing a red shirt on Blue Shirt Day, sort of thing.

        Honestly I have come to appreciate at least the bluntness of the Dutch and Swiss. The risk you run of faulting occasional rudeness is that when there’s a real problem you need to address in a timely manner, people futz around trying to find a nice way of telling you or don’t tell you at all because you’re perceived as a shoot-the-messenger type.

  36. Retail not Retail*

    Does anyone else have to pay for parking? My second job does not have free parking for at least a mile and it’s for late events. There is a garage overlooking the space and we have a special rate of $3.

    How does this stack up with other pay to park jobs? Do you carpool or take public transit? Does your job reimburse? Etc etc – this is completely new to me.

    1. Amber Rose*

      Husband would have to. He works at a hospital, they don’t offer free parking to anyone. It’s $15 a day or some absurd monthly fee. So he does a combo of carpooling and public transportation.

      I used to work downtown which would have meant paying for parking, so I took the bus.

      It sucks, honestly, I wouldn’t do it again unless parking was reimbursed or something.

        1. Leisel*

          It sucks because it’s taking away from your bottom line, but $3 is cheap for the whole day. Anytime I have to go downtown in my city it’s like $1.50 an hour or more.

          1. Person from the Resume*

            This! My first thought was $3 is so cheap for parking (I’m used to $10, $15, $20 for parking or over a dollar an hour for the hourly spots), but it is coming out of your paycheck everyday you work.

            5 years ago, I worked in a downtown office building. We got parking passes (free for us) for a parking garage a few blocks away from the office. There was parking garage connected to out building, but that is not the one our office gave us passes for.

          2. Fikly*

            Well, unless you live within walking distance, any way you get to work is coming out of your bottom line, it’s just how it is.

            Even if you bike, there’s a cost to maintain that, and for the bike itself. Cars have sunk costs, ongoing costs, and gas. Public transit has costs.

            Going anywhere, to work or somewhere else, costs money.

            1. Retail not Retail*

              That is true! But at least when I took the bus, I could use the monthly pass for any and every trip.

              I did walk to one job all but two days BUT i had to get a license and car to get to the job in the first place.

    2. CTT*

      I’m an attorney and we have to pay for parking at our firm; after the tax law changes last year got rid of the incentive for employers to pay for parking, they stopped providing it across all offices. There was no change in where we parked, it just started coming out of our paychecks. It was INCREDIBLY poorly handled (one week’s notice, my office manager who usually knows everything was given conflicting information, etc.). I get why they had to do it, but the rollout bothered a lot of people.

    3. merp*

      When I worked at universities, I always had to pay or find another way to get there. And it wasn’t cheap, nor was it even really that available if you got in later in the day. At one of those places, your university ID also made the city buses free, which was nice.

    4. Nita*

      I’d have to pay for parking if I chose to drive. We are in an urban area with lots of public transit, and bad traffic, so hardly anyone drives to the main office. People who drive regularly can pay for parking out of their flex spending, but that doesn’t apply to occasional driving. If I need to drive for a project field visit, I can bill the parking to that project.

    5. Shramps*

      I pay $50 for surface lot “gated” parking that’s about a quarter miles/seven to ten minute walk to my salary office job in a rust belt city.

      When I worked as a science museum employee for $9/hour I also had to pay. $3 seems reasonable for parking but it’s hard on an hourly budget.

      1. Shramps*

        My office (huge company in the area) does allow us to pay for parking before taxes on our checks.

      2. Retail not Retail*

        Hey I’m making the same rate! Luckily (?) it’s an every other week job so while i’ll pay $3 for every day I work, I won’t be working every day. And they feed us good food and we get to watch free llama shows.

    6. Dust Bunny*

      I think we have to pay for parking at our main location. I believe our employer partly reimburses it, but since it’s an extremely high-density area and parking is limited, everyone (not just our organization) pays. But my employer also reimburses bus passes up to $50 a month (which goes pretty far if you’re coming from within the city; we have a day pass that never charges you more than $3 a day for local buses and trains) and I know a few people use a van pool.

    8. Little Beans*

      Yep, I work for a university and pay $106 a month. I used to take public transit which was less than $5 a day, but then I moved and now public transit would take me upward of 90 minutes to travel the 13 miles from my house to campus. (It still takes me 40 minutes to drive it because traffic is terrible).

    9. Alice*

      I pay a lot for parking, and of course I don’t like it, but I also think it’s important that car users bear the costs of car infrastructure. Street parking should not be free! It’s not an unlimited resource, and there are negative externalities for everyone: congestion, particulates, carbon emissions, accidents. I’m also in favor of high gas taxes, highway tolls, and variable road pricing. Of course, those should come along with frequent, safe, convenient public transit and active transit options.

    10. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      If I worked onsite regularly at one of the hospital buildings, I’d have to pay (albeit a discounted employee rate) – as it is, I go onsite about once every three months, so when I do that they give me a day pass that basically bills my parking fee for the day to my department.

    11. LadyByTheLake*

      In downtowns it is common to pay $150-300/mo (I worked in San Francisco for a while) for parking. Only $3 a day seems pretty cheap. And I’ve never had an employer that paid for parking.

    12. Leah K.*

      When I worked in an office building downtown, we didn’t even have a designated parking garage. I had to use one of the parking lots around the building, which ranged anywhere from $6 to $10 per day. They also filled up pretty quickly, so you weren’t even guaranteed a spot if you showed up after 9 am. I eventually started taking light rail to work, and the company partially subsidized the cost of the monthly rail pass.

    13. A Simple Narwhal*

      I work in a big office in the middle of a big city, and we get either a discount on the parking garage in the building or a discount on public transportation. The out of pocket cost varies on what options you choose, but it’s definitely a non-zero monthly amount.

      This is the first time I’ve worked downtown but I don’t think it’s too unusual. Either way I don’t mind it – I can use my commuter pass for any variation of the city’s public transport any day of the week, so not just for work, and they take care of all the aspects so the pass just appears on my desk when it’s time for a new one. No muss, no fuss. My husband also works downtown and I think his company doesn’t cover anything but he can get a travel FSA and pay for his pass pre-tax.

      When I worked outside the city a handful of years ago I didn’t have to pay anything – there was a gated garage but they gave us passes to get in. But if you ever forgot your pass you had to get your ticket validated and move your car every two hours otherwise you’d get charged.
      I had one bad day where I got to work and realized I forgot my wallet, so I had no pass and no money to pay if I went over the limit. I was fine all day until the very end of the day – I had to stay late to finish something and missed the two-hour window by mere minutes. I was panicking because I literally had zero dollars and no way of leaving the garage, when a coworker miraculously walked by and I had to beg for two dollars to be able to leave. She thought it was hilarious and was happy to give it to me, but it still gives me a little anxiety to think about what I would have done if she wasn’t there.

    14. Constance Lloyd*

      I pay 40 cents per hour to park downtown and have to walk about 2 blocks. We receive a $60 monthly parking stipend, but the garage attached to our building charged nearly $150 per month. I used to take the bus, but it’s actually cheaper For me to park 8 hours a day.

    15. Jaid*

      Federal employee here. My job provides free garage parking and/or paid public transportation. (One can take PT on weekdays, but drive in one weekends for overtime)

      Hey, I’m a taxpayer too, and I approve. ;-)

    16. One of the Spreadsheet Horde*

      Downtown office in a city that has ok but not spectacular public transit options (as in you’re likely driving to the station to ride the rail line type city). I was probably paying ~$70/month for parking when I drove in, public transit passes averages out to $60/month if you buy the full year pass.

    17. Overeducated*

      My job pays up to a certain sum for public transit (supposedly – I seem to have issues and not get the benefit every few months for one reason for another – I’ve spent $60 out of pocket in the last two weeks….). Parking is not free and it costs about $30/day downtown, so there is definitely an incentive to choose the longer, more environmentally friendly commute.

    18. blink14*

      I pay for a yearly parking pass at the university where I work. If I were to take public transit, I would receive a discount on a monthly pass, but the time it would take and the transfers needed to get from my neighborhood to work make the parking pass a far better option for me, even with the parking pass being more expensive.

      Both options are taken out of our paychecks pre-tax. Some people pay for daily parking at train stations, and that would just be paid out of pocket.

      1. Artemesia*

        When I worked on a campus we had to pay for an annual pass to park but it was a ‘hunting license’ and if you arrived mid morning — or has meetings to go to and come back from — you might look a long time to find a free spot.

    19. Mama Bear*

      In the past I did. The gist was I had options to get to work and it was up to me to decide if I drove, where I parked and what I paid. I have occasionally had jobs that offered either paid parking or transit subsidy but not both. Last job offered nothing. I never found a good carpooling option that wasn’t straight up mass transit. Parking in my current building’s lot is always free. Often paying by the month is cheaper – maybe do the math to see if a monthly pass would be more economical for you. I’ve also decided on a personal level that parking right at the building or station is far preferable, especially if I get out of work late.

    20. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      I work at a university. Parking used to be free for employees but when they built a new parking structure a while ago, they mixed up some of the existing lots so it wasn’t all just students in lot A and employees in lot B (for instance) and started to charge everyone. It’s not cheap — it’s around $600 a year deducted from our paycheck unless we specifically opt out (which I do) — AND it doesn’t even guarantee a spot. If there’s no open parking and we have to park on a city street or (pay) lot and walk to campus, there is no refund. I did the math for what it would cost to pay for city lot parking ($3.00 per day, and only pay when I’m IN a parking space), deduct all of the holidays the university is closed or estimated days I’ll be on vacation etc. and it came out better to park in a city space and walk. Also, I’m just a curmudgeon and think my employer is supposed to pay me to come to work and not the other way.

      1. blink14*

        Ugh I wish mine was $600 a year – I pay over $2000 now! Granted we are in a large city, but the university I work for is slowing taking over open lots for buildings, and the parking just creeps up every year.

        1. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

          Luckily we’re in a smaller city, but it’s also economically disadvantaged (outside of the university) with a higher crime rate, so $600 is what I would expect to pay in a better area or frankly for better service. We have no where near enough parking so the university has started leasing city parking blocks away — and then charging the same price for being on-campus. They claim the high cost is because they provide general security and individual escorts, but cars still get broken into, people still get mugged (occasionally) and we have a lot of homeless individuals with obvious mental health or substance abuse problems around campus and all of the unfortunate sanitation problems that come from it. As the city lots get filled, they charge a higher cost (supply and demand), so then the university increases theirs, and back and forth.

      2. Retail not Retail*

        My sister did the same math as an undergrad one year – a parking pass wasn’t a guaranteed spot and divide the classes by the chance of a ticket – the cost of the 2-3 tickets she got was still less than a pass!

        In grad school, I walked or rode the bus to school even after I got a car because of the cost and hassle and all that jazz. Plus i lived less than a mile from campus.

        Luckily my main job has free parking. Parking is a controversial issue with the public right now. Our boss declared the employee lot “tacky” so sacrificed ~100 spots a day for 8 hours in the public lot to avoid looking tacky. Irrelevant to my department of course, we park near our base of operations. still amusing to see employees get to park in the public lot and up front!

    21. Cotton Headed Ninny Muggins*

      I work from home 4 days a week, and going into our downtown office one day a week. when I was in the office everyday, I had a monthly pass that was around $135/month, but now, it’s not really worth it because I’m only there 4-5 time/month. the downside is that parking around our building is usually $16-$20/ per day. Because I work in government, I don’t get any kind of reimbursement. It’s honestly so annoying that I have to pay for the “privilege” of going into the office (which is required).

    22. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      The best setup I’ve seen was when the hospital had a “park and ride” shuttle set up. Free parking and then a free bus pass for people to shuttle in that way.

      Otherwise yeah, you had to pay $15 a day in most garages. You can buy monthly passes at some small discount for people who are there full time but they fill up super quick! And that was in a small city. Downtown, I don’t even want to start thinking about it but I know it’s not something the company regularly pays for. They do validate for clients in some areas but it’s rare. It’s why I Uber instead of drive and park when I have meetings down there. I cannot imagine the costs to the employee but I know it’s not cheap.

    23. Alex*

      Parking at my job is $10 per day, if you can get the privilege of having a space (not everyone gets even that) but they give us subway passes for free. I think there may be a nearby parking garage that is $20 per day.

      I think this is highly dependent on your location and the availability of parking.

    24. Windchime*

      I pay for parking and it’s $18/day. It was $20 but was recently reduced. I don’t get any kind of a break; my employer assumes that most people will take public transit but that doesn’t work for me. I don’t carpool; I want to be able to come and go as I please. My job pays well and I work from home 2 days a week, so it’s not as bad as it could be. But it’s still super expensive.

  37. HR Lady*

    Started a new job three months ago. It’s a real, real struggle and I feel very isolated. I work with my client team who are a little separate to the rest of the business but also report in to the central HR function. I very much feel neither fish nor fowl as we have slightly separate systems here and no one can adequately explain them to me.

    I’ve done a week of 10-16 hour days (not a typo) to get ready for bonus and salary communications. Everyone else got their final sign off on Wednesday, wrote their letters and as I type are down the pub celebrating. I only got final sign off at 8.30pm last night and am still finishing up now, alone, on the first sunny day in London for weeks.

    I sort of want to cry. My manager sits in this part of the business with me and relations between her and the wider HR team are totally toxic. I think they’re both in the wrong for what it’s worth.

    Does it get easier? I can’t job-hunt yet, my last job but one was a six month stint and I need more stability in my CV than job-hopping now would give me.

    Influenced totally by the fact I’m knackered and frankly want a glass of wine then a long sleep but I suspect will be working until 8/9pm or so again.

    1. Salty Caramel*

      Yikes! You have my sympathies. I’m not sure what to suggest other than try to get away from your desk for a breather a few times a day, even if it’s just to walk to the end of the block and back.

      I hope you got the raise and the bonus.

      1. HR Lady*

        Ironically I’m too new to get either! Which is a-ok. I’ve just been desperately producing the letters etc for everyone else – part & parcel of HR life sadly!

    2. Teekanne aus Schokolade*

      I don’t think you can’t job hunt. I mean, if you happen upon something better than what you have, the only risk in interviewing is that they won’t hire you, with a chance that they will. As Alison says, with the right scripts, you can explain most situations: “I wasn’t actively looking to change positions but a friend sent me this job posting and I thought X about your company was too good to resist looking into”. And a similar script for why you left your precious job early “I was initially hired to do Y, but after sticking it out to see if I would actually get to do Y, the company could only provide me with X-type tasks”.

      And as for wanting to cry, im with you and I’m only job hunting, but I’m over here in the Cologne area of Germany and miss the sunshine so much! Have you considered a light therapy lamp? I’ve used them in all my previous offices as well as vitamin D3 (I’m originally from Texas so the missing sun is a big deal to me!) When I lived in Liverpool I felt the same..just remember, spring is coming! We’re making plans to visit Keukenhof (the tulip festival) in a couple of weeks in the Netherlands, and with Corona, most Ryanair tickets are only 10 bucks if you needed a dose of color and light ;) wishing you well!

    3. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      Is your role a newly created one to the company? Like previously your manager was doing that work and it’s been “spun off” into a separate role?

      1. HR Lady*

        Existing role but there’s been a lot of change since someone else was in it. I just feel very very awkward & 3 months in I feel like that feeling should have gone – I’m a bit socially awkward normally but not that bad!

  38. I'm A Little Teapot*

    One of my coworkers has 3 interviews next week. Another is interviewing with 3 companies currently (not sure what’s with 3 here). My goal is to update my resume this weekend, and contact a recruiter next week. At the same time, we have a new manager starting Monday. There’s a 2nd new mgmt person starting the 30th, and a 3rd new mgmt person starting 4/6. The staff level are feeling kinda sorry for these new people – we know the brick wall they’re going to hit. And we know that there’s no way they can ultimately be successful. This might be interesting.

    Unrelated, the company’s response to the Corona virus is kinda funny (in a bad way). The only thing they’ve done is put out a notice on the company intranet with the CDC recommendations of wash hands, and “we’re monitoring”. Meanwhile, a huge percentage of people are fully able to work from home, but it’s disliked by management so nothing there. And there’s been nothing at all about restricting travel. On Tuesday this week, I was told to book flight and hotel to Alabama for a few days next week. This is not critical travel. I could do the work from my usual location, or from home. I’m kinda watching for them to realize they’re behind the ball here and freak out, cancelling all trips. While washing my hands frequently!

  39. Stuckinacrazyjob*

    I have literally nothing to do today, but I need to meet with my supervisor after 3. What should I do to avoid going crazy?

    1. Wing Leader*

      Imagine all the ways your meeting will be AWESOME. Maybe your boss will offer you a raise? Maybe you’ll get a huge work perk you’ve been wanting? Not saying that stuff will happen, but it’s nice to dwell on good stuff and it will keep you from stressing all day.

    2. Leisel*

      I’ve been using Duolingo to get better at speaking Spanish. You can use it on your phone or through their website. It’s free, and for me it’s applicable to my job, so I don’t feel guilty using it on company time.

  40. Amber Rose*

    I’m terrified about the future, furious about politics, and I think it’s impacting my work.

    I work in Canada in oil and gas, more or less. I don’t hate my job but I don’t particularly love it, I’m mostly here because it’s comfortable and I don’t feel like I have a lot of marketable skills to go anywhere else. The place I live voted in a premier who just… I can’t even believe he’s got a brain, there’s just a demonic jellyfish of some kind floating around behind his empty eyes probably, and he’s thrown every resource we have behind an oil and gas industry which is tanking, and expected to tank worse as time goes on.

    So now even though renewable energy would be my logical leap as far as industries go, he’s done his absolute best to sabotage and destroy it and everything else, and my own industry is failing. I’m terrified I’m going to be out of a job soon and I won’t be able to find anything else. Husband is facing a 7% pay cut too because eff government workers, we don’t need ’em right? Most of my coworkers voted for this government and my fury and fear of my ability to survive is translating over to frustration and anger at them. I’m finding it harder and harder to be friendly and I’ve downgraded to cordial a lot of the time. Not rude or icy but not my previous level of cheer for sure.

    I’m taking it all very personally but it’s hard not to when I’m terrified I’ll be out of a job and homeless in a year.

    1. JB (not in Houston)*

      I don’t have any advice or comforting words, but I am so so sorry you’re going through that. And of course what you need to do most right now is take care of yourself, which is incredibly hard to do in your situation.

    2. Red Tape Producer*

      You’re not alone! I’m from the same province and I work in the public sector. Honestly… it’s brutal right now. Moral is so low it’s pretty much underground at this point.

      I’m on a two year contract and had to the make the very difficult, and absolutely humiliating, choice of giving up my apartment lease and moving into my parents’ basement because my contract can be terminated early if there’s “budgetary restraint”. Every budget is now hugely stressful for me, because that’s the only clue I have about whether my department will still have the funds to employee me for the rest of the year.

      The absolute worst part is listening to people who voted the Premier in talk about how he’s “making the tough choices” and “putting the house in order”. These are all people that don’t, and never have, worked in oil and gas. They miss the money booming oil and gas production used to bring in to their businesses and they love the new corporate tax rate. There’s no real logic.

      At this point I’m actively looking for work outside of this province because I don’t see any real future here. There’s no plan to turn us into a more diversified economy and the cuts will take decades to fix (look at Klein’s legacy…). We going to be like the Maritime provinces in 20-30 years, relying on those equalization payment we hate so much now and desperately trying to get *any* business to build here.

      1. Amber Rose*

        We’ve been talking about leaving too. But it’s expensive to move. We own our condo too, so that complicates matters. What provinces are you looking at right now, if you don’t mind telling me?

        1. Red Tape Producer*

          Not at all. I’m trying to be as open minded as possible, but (for my occupation) I’m really focused on Saskatchewan, Ontario, and Nova Scotia.

          BC has, by far, the most job posting for similar roles to the one I have but the wage is just not feasible (take a $10K pay cut and live in Victoria with a much higher). I would looooooove to move to the island, but I can’t afford it until my student loans are paid off. NWT and Yukon are also hiring in my field, and the pay is amazing, but I don’t think I could live somewhere that’s so expensive to fly in and out of.

          Saskatchewan has the best wages compared to cost of living, but I’m not sold on living in Regina. Might be good for a couple years until I get my loans paid off. In Ontario I’m looking at smaller communities, like Kitchener or Stratford, because the municipal level is still hiring despite Ford’s cuts. I don’t love small town life but the weather can’t be worse than Edmonton, right?? Nova Scotia is at the bottom of my list, they’re hiring at decent wages, but I’ve heard conflicting things about living in Halifax. I have relatives near Sydney though, so it would be nice to move somewhere close to family. Plus living near the ocean!

          It really depends on your field, but I’m surprised at how much work is out there at the moment. You might have to be flexible about whether you’re willing to relocate to a more rural/small town area though.

          1. Amber Rose*

            Wow, you’ve really put a lot of thought into it. I feel the same way about BC, it’s technically the best for my experience but also really high cost of living. Might be worth looking into the east coast again though. I could look into smaller places in Ontario since most of my family lives there, but it would be tough on Husband I think.

            I dunno, I’m not against smaller towns but there has to be work for both of us and neither of us are very marketable. :(

          2. kwtransplant*

            Kitchener is great! Great cost of living, good transit, and it’s a growing city so there’s always something new and cool happening. Plus, if you’re looking for city amenities, Toronto is only an hour and half away.

      2. Nessun*

        I’m in the same province, but I’m in public accounting, so we tend to feel changes in the economy on a wave after the initial cuts. I came here years ago, and I was happy not to be in the Ford universe, until we went the exact same way…I had really hoped that would be an example to everyone what NOT to do, but I guess the PC legacy runs deeper than logic.

        Oil & gas is never going to be what it was, and the fact that no one seems to want to acknowledge that and move on…is disappointing and unnerving. My industry can weather this, and it helps we’re not in Calgary. If I was, I’d also seriously consider leaving the province – but I don’t know that it’s better elsewhere. Manitoba is cutting sales tax, Ontario is run by a *****, NS has the highest taxation rates in the country and some of the worst weather, I mean…better the devil you know? Maybe? But it’s a hard thing to decide, when there’s so much uncertainty everywhere. I don’t envy you the choices you have to make – best of luck (to you both).

        1. Amber Rose*

          Yeah, Calgary is a shit show and a half right now. :(

          I’ve been debating BC, but the cost of living so SO high there.

          1. Nessun*

            Yeah, everyone tells me I would love it in BC, and my response every time is the same – I’m sure I would, but not for long…I’d be broke!!

            Best of luck to you – it’s a garbage fire, but it can’t last forever.

      3. GeneralK*

        Commiseration here too. If we can sell our house this summer, we’re moving. F**k this place, f**k this government.

    3. Blueberry*

      I have no advice, just commiseration. In 2016 I found out how virulently conservative many of my coworkers were, and it threw me for several loops.

    4. Middle School Teacher*

      I’m in the same province and facing the same choices. My job is secure, but I can’t keep watching my colleagues in education and public services in general keep getting axed. This government hates women, the vulnerable, and anyone not part of their crony group. My tuition for my masters degree is going to go up 7% a year for the foreseeable future. I haven’t had a raise since 2012. Class conditions are getting worse and worse. If I could, I’d leave tomorrow.

    5. Ranon*

      What kind of oil & gas job? I have a family member who moved from telecom to oil & gas, since she’s on the IT/ tech end it’s all just stuff moving through tubes as far as she’s concerned, might be another avenue if renewables looks tight.

    1. Mama Bear*

      Generally people move on if they don’t get attention for their behavior. Glad Goober was able to laugh it off.

  42. Eillah*

    I need to bring my boss a list of fun icebreakers for an onsite/offsite she’s hosting with her direct reports in June.

    Does anyone know any good icebreakers/challenges/bonding exercises that aren’t so cliche you want to tear your hair out?

    1. Little Beans*

      I work in higher ed so I have done a lot of ice breakers in my time. Honestly, the only one I really like is “introduce a partner”. So make everyone pair up, give them a few minutes to chat about some questions and then go around and each person shares their partner’s answers. Depending on how well the people know each other, they can be very basic questions or more interesting.

        1. Clisby*

          Is that the one where you describe three things, where one is a lie and the others are true? My son had to do that for a college public speaking course. (Nobody guessed correctly – for some reason, they thought the story where he woke me up in the middle of the night to solve the problem of a baby crow getting down his chimney and fluttering around his bedroom was a lie.)

    2. BadWolf*

      Share a hobby

      Share a favorite vacation (or dream vacation location)

      Share a current entertainment thing you’re enjoying (aka, TV, podcast, book, movie)

      1. Seeking Second Childhood*

        Best one was 80% work related: 3 boring, 2 surprising & effective. Name, department, your primary role, your favorite thing about your role, and something you do outside of work.
        The “thing you like best” could be very helpful to managers helping plan internal transfers!
        The other turned up several hobbies that we did not know anyone shared, including one geeky one that I am now less awkward about at work. One person used to be condescending about it. So it was a thing of beauty to see her expression go blank when $InfluentialSeniorManager talked about his membership in the same group she’s disparaged.

    3. Gidget*

      Two truths and a lie. I mean it’s kind of cliche, but I still think it’s fun. You have to set some guidelines/examples for the types of statements so that no one says anything too outrageous or offensive.

      Also depending on your field, share a favorite thing related to that field. (Ex. a bunch of gardners might share their favorite plant). It helps if you can get the people to talk about why and if the person facilitating can comment back about the favorite things.

    4. Animal worker*

      This may not work for your situation, and/or you may think it’s kind of stupid, but I had a team meeting this week that was all about very dry and boring topics. So I started googling icebreaker/meeting activities to try to find something to make it a little more fun. Most ideas I saw were, to me, cringe-worthy; but a few I flagged for future reference. But during my search I came up with a separate idea which I used, and it actually was a lot of fun.

      Mad Libs. Yes, that thing you (depending on your age) did as a kid. I found some online ones that I could print out that were related to animals/zoos and did them during the meeting. I don’t think it would work to do again in the future, but as a one-off it was actually effective in adding a little levity into the meeting.

    6. eshrai*

      There is one called This Better Than That. Haven’t tried it yet, but planning on using it at future all staff meetings. Basically, you have several ordinary items and the staff has to first individually rank the usefulness of each item for a scenario. For example, they are stranded on a desert island, or need to save the world from Godzilla. Then they come together as a group and negotiate how to rank each item together.

    7. Bernice Clifton*

      Whatever you do, don’t ask people to name a time they felt vulnerable. My boss did this at a team retreat and my coworkers did not keep it safe for work. People talked about domestic violence, animal cruelty, child abuse and suicide with no TWs.

    8. Harbinger of Doom*

      What I really hate about Most icebreakers is that they expect you to share something that you might not want to share.
      I found this one on Pinterest, used it, got really good responses: blobs and lines. I did not call it that, though.
      1. Line up by (alpha by first name, last name, by how long you’ve been with the co, how many miles away from this address you have ever lived, make something up)
      2. Get in groups based on (your dept, your pets, who is going to win the super bowl, etc).

      It gets people moving around, they don’t have to share anything intensely personal, you do sometimes learn fun stuff, and they don’t have to think too hard to come up with an answer).

    9. Stormy Weather*

      The one I got the best feedback from was when I asked the group to tell me something that inspires them. There was a lot of, “oh yeah, that’s cool.”

      I hate being asked what kind of animal I would be. I usually say otter because they’re smart and get to eat a lot of sushi. I didn’t want to present myself as a prey animal, but as a woman, I didn’t want to claim something so predatory it would make people back up a step.

      Overthinkers R Us

    10. Malory Archer*

      I like “share a fun fact nobody knows” – or a variation where everyone writes it down, puts in in a basket, and then they get read anonymously and you have to guess which belongs to whom.

    11. Fikly*

      We just did salad bowl last week, which was a new one for me, but it was fun.

      Our words were all ones that were related to our industry or things we do in our jobs.

      We also did one where we all wrote down a random fact about ourselves, put it in a bowl, and everyone grabbed one then had to guess who the fact matched with. It ended up being fun because people wrote down facts that were hard to match. Two people out of 20 were ambidextrous, who knew?

    12. Kate Lathrop*

      We did something like this at our last all hands (caveat we all know each other so you could leave out the last part).

      Boss brought in 4 puzzles. We split into 3 teams of 4 folks (counted off 1, 2, 3, etc.) Each team had to put together their puzzle but there was 1 piece missing from each puzzle, mixed in with one of the other 3 puzzles. So you had to work with the other groups to find your missing puzzle piece. Then the whole group worked to put the 4th puzzle together.

      Could be fun and a pretty chill way to meet other people.

    13. Mad Harry Crewe*

      We do an icebreaker at our weekly team meeting – everybody trades off bringing the activity. It’s a fun way to start and nobody takes it seriously.
      – After several weeks of questions/two truths and a lie type things, someone brought in team-mate bingo based on all our answers + some made up ones. That was actually a lot of fun
      – Would You Rather – printed out strips of paper with two situations, you read both and say which you would rather do/experience
      – What would your superpower be?
      – Guess the number of jelly beans in a jar
      – Break up in teams, come up with a short movie pitch
      – Build tallest stable tower out of spaghetti and marshmallows (team activity)

    14. Amethystmoon*

      Have them do a Toastmasters-style Icebreaker, but for less amount time (literally those are 4-6 minutes). Introduce themselves for a couple of minutes. Talk about whatever they like. Family, hobbies, pets, whatever. Don’t make them share anything too personal they may not want to or worse, do the trust fall thing. If someone doesn’t catch their person, that might lead to serious injuries and some people may have existing injuries they don’t want to talk about.

  43. JB (not in Houston)*

    This question appeared on the Dear Prudence podcast this week (posted 3/04), and as much as I like that podcast, when I heard it, I wished it had been sent to Alison:

    “I am an engineer at a large company. I like my job and believe I am good at it. I sit in a cube farm and know some of my coworkers better than others.

    Last week, an HR rep scheduled a meeting to share some surprising information about one of the coworkers I know less well. He’d been keeping a diary about me on his work computer. I only saw a snippet, but I was told it covered months. Examples being, ‘December 10th. Arrived with coffee. Red dress, messy hair. At desk all day.’ ‘December 11th. Arrived at 10. Morning meeting or running late? Blue sweater, black pants.’

    The HR rep assured me there was nothing sexual or threatening, but out of an abundance of caution, the coworker has been moved to a different building. She seemed to think this was a good outcome for everybody. I do not think this is a good outcome for me. I am having trouble calibrating my response. A restraining order or job search seems like overreactions, but doing nothing—the current path—feels like an under-reaction. What do I do?”

    I’m not sure what I’d do in this situation, but I don’t think I’d feel comfortable working with someone who thought this kind of behavior was ok, even if that person was in another building. And I’m quite curious about how HR found out about the diary.

    1. Nita*

      Wow. I’m sorry this is happening to you. Would definitely be talking more to HR to get more info. Like, will anyone be keeping an eye on this guy to make sure he’s not continuing to stalk you? And what’s their next move, if he does? And what if he switches to stalking someone in the next building?

      Not sure if there’s any benefit to filing a stalking complaint with the police? They probably wouldn’t do anything now, but it might be useful if you need to escalate.

      1. Nita*

        Oh. Just realized this was a Slate article, not your personal experience. Need more coffee! This is still horribly creepy though.

        1. JB (not in Houston)*

          Right? Super creepy. And this is definitely a “need more coffee” day for me also, so I feel you there.

      2. TexasRose*

        Folks, this is creepy as can be, but it isn’t stalking. (Unless I’ve read something incorrectly) Observer observed (and documented) LW’s dress and habits from his assigned workstation, when she was going about her own assigned duties. Stalking requires going out of your way to intersect with your target. A creepy nosy neighbor can observe all he wants, and fill dozens of spiral notebooks of your comings and goings, and the cops can’t do a thing about it. (I’ll let your imagination fill in the details of how I know.)

        The second or third time you see your neighbor at your favorite coffee shop 20 minute from home, of course, is a DIFFERENT story.

        tl; dr: Keeping a log is weird and creepy. This behavior could be benign weirdness, or it could be a Warning Sign. Takeaway: Be alert, but don’t freak out quite yet. Do make sure you use basic security measures (lock your doors, check in with friends once or twice a day, maybe reduce your online presence for a while). Good luck!

        1. Amethystmoon*

          This is extremely creepy. If my coworker who had actually been following me around, and also leering at me over the cube wall for minutes at a time did this and I caught it, I would have been livid and bypassed my manager and went straight to HR with it. He most certainly would not have lasted there as long as he had.

          1. Amethystmoon*

            If HR had continued to protect my weirdo under those circumstances, I also would have started looking for another job way before than I did. And put it in my Glassdoor review, and on my Facebook too.

    2. BugSwallowersAnonymous*

      What the hell??! That’s so scary and weird. Could you loop your manager in and get their support in asking for more information from HR?

      1. JB (not in Houston)*

        Oh, this didn’t happen to me! It’s a letter sent to the Dear Prudence column on Slate. I obviously didn’t make that clear enough, sorry about that. Thanks for your concern, though!

        1. BugSwallowersAnonymous*

          Oh my gosh! I was not reading closely enough, that’s embarrasing xD Same sentiment goes to the OP haha.

    3. Leisel*

      Ooooooo, thanks for posting this! I saw the headline on Slate. I read the advice columns (which is how I found out about AAM), but I don’t usually have time to listen to the podcast. This is so weird and icky!!!

      1. JB (not in Houston)*

        I don’t often have time to listen either but I had some tasks I could do this week where the podcast wouldn’t be distracting, and when I saw the headline I knew that’s what I was going to listen to.

        1. Ron McDon*

          I prefer reading to listening to podcasts, but they put up a transcript of the podcast, so I can read instead of listening to it.

          It’s done by some sort of software rather than a human, so you have to fix the errors in your head as you read, but that’s also quite entertaining!

    4. Myrin*

      I’m curious why the HR rep felt the need to share this info with OP in the first place if she didn’t think it’s that big of a deal. It seems to me that the reason for giving this info to OP would be to warn her (to keep an eye out for this guy, to be sure to alert the company immediately if he pulled something, etc.) but it doesn’t sound like that was the case?

      1. AndersonDarling*

        That was my reaction as well. How did the HR Rep think the OP would react? I would have preferred to live in ignorant bliss.

        1. tangerineRose*

          I’d want to know so that I could be careful if I had to interact with this guy.

    5. Marny*

      What? He’s tracking the woman’s movements every single day and HR thought simply cutting off his information source was a sufficient solution? I’d be livid.

      2. Assistant to the Norbear Ambassador*

        Not to mention what’s stopping him from latching onto a new woman to track?

      3. Mama Bear*

        This would personally bother me. I bet you $100 he either finds a way to continue to monitor the first person or he finds a new target. What he’s doing is not appropriate at all. I only hope that HR didn’t specify further due to inability to discuss certain personnel issues, but I’m also a realist.

    6. Salty Caramel*

      I’d love to hear what Allison says to this one.

      While HR says ‘nothing sexual or threatening,’ they’re idiots to not see this as stalking behavior or at least the precursor to it. I’d GTFO.

      and your question about how HR found out is a good one.

    7. Bernice Clifton*

      Well, the actual content may not contain sexual language or threats, I don’t see how this is HR’s call that there is nothing sexual or threatening about this motive-wise.

      It’s like those letters we see here sometimes that say something lie, “I responded with a professional email saying that my boss doesn’t know what he’s talking about and should never have been hired.” Like, just because there were no swear words doesn’t mean that was professional!

    8. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      I don’t know what to do about that situation, but I am giving the side-eye to “the co-worker has been moved to a different building” – because it fails the ‘what would you do if that wasn’t an option?’ test. (*)

      Not all companies have a different building to move a problematic person to (and other complications). What would you do in that case then?

      (*) What I mean by that is in a no way comparable situation, but illustrates the principle. I was once stranded in a town about 20 miles from where I live due to a failure of public transportation (I do drive, but had taken public transit to my destination in the first place, so I didn’t have the car with me). All trains cancelled or delayed for at least 3 hours due to whatever the disruption was. My partner suggested I take an ‘uber’, taxi or hire a car. I refused because all the other people stranded by this disruption didn’t have that option, so what would I have done if I didn’t have that option? So I waited around for about 2-3 hours and eventually took a train replacement bus that was laid on and walked the 2 miles from the bus drop-off point to my house.

      1. spock*

        I’m not sure I understand. Why can’t you use an option just because it doesn’t work for someone else? I’m glad you were able to figure out something that worked for you, but I don’t think it’s necessarily good advice for every situation.

        1. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

          > Why can’t you use an option just because it doesn’t work for someone else?

          Because being able to access it is just “happenstance” or “privilege” or whatever… something circumstantial. It isn’t available to everyone so what would I do in their position if I didn’t have that option?

          It’s kind of the corollary or other side to the “I’m alright Jack, I’ve got the ladder” trope. What would Jack do then?

          1. Frank Doyle*

            But if your refusal to take an Uber doesn’t make life easier on the other people who are stranded, it affects them not at all . . .

          2. Gumby*

            This seems to be drawing the line in an arbitrary place. Almost everything in life is not an option for *somebody* out there but that doesn’t mean *nobody* gets to do them.

            I don’t stop walking because I have a friend who is paralyzed. I don’t move to the streets because I know someone who is homeless. I don’t stop eating watermelon because my sister is allergic to it.

            Sure, it is a good idea to be aware of how the options available to you differ from those available to others mainly because it make you a more empathetic person and sometimes you can help someone else. But in many cases it is more important to work with the actual facts of the situation on the ground.

            I agree that moving Creepy McCreeps-a-lot to a different building wasn’t the best solution, but I also do not think every problem must be solved in a universally available way. As the saying goes – you do the best that you can with the resources and knowledge available to you at the time.

  44. selene*

    long time lurker, first time commenter!

    I’m in my last semester of grad school and am currently on the market for my first full-time job. my field is academia/higher ed, so for those of you who don’t know, our interview process is generally two-tiered — first is a phone screening interview (lots of candidates), then a paid visit out to campus for a full-day interview (top candidates, think 2-4). earlier this week I was offered an on-campus interview following a successful phone screening! yay!

    apologies for yet another coronavirus question, but I’m thinking ahead to the day of the interview and how I should deal with handshakes. since it’s a full-day event, I’ll be meeting with a LOT of different people, most of them for the first time. I’ve never really been keen on handshakes to start with, but especially now, among rising health concerns/precautions, I’d rather not shake hands. is there a way to do this professionally and politely without coming across as rude/weird/etc? I don’t want to give a bad impression (since this is an interview!) and am not sure how to frame that kind of comment gracefully.

    thanks in advance for any help, yall :)

    1. 404UsernameNotFound*

      You’re in luck – Alison did a thing on this!
      (https://www.askamanager.org/2020/02/how-can-i-avoid-shaking-hands-looking-for-joy-in-my-work-aggravated-me-and-more.html)

      Personal opinion incoming: honestly the way you’ve explained it sounds fine; maybe something like “Given the current concerns around coronavirus, I’d rather not shake hands. But it’s nice to meet you!” As Alison said last time, keep it warm and friendly and people will realize it’s not them (or you), it’s the situation.

      1. Lily Rowan*

        Especially if you have to fly to get to the campus — people will definitely get it.

        1. selene*

          yep, I will be flying. it’s actually still several weeks away, and there’s so much that could change re: virus spread in the meantime…

    2. blackcat*

      My university has been suggesting bowing as an alternate greeting. It’s the official party line. The interviewing U might have send out a similar email already. I wouldn’t worry about it!

      “I’m not shaking hands right now” *slight bow* *smile* should work.

    4. Military Prof*

      Speaking as a tenured professor who has been down this route plenty of times, I’m going to push in a different direction. I completely get not enjoying handshakes, I’m also not a fan. But, in academia, the hiring process doesn’t follow many of the norms that you find in pretty much every other industry, particularly for individuals gunning for their first position. When you’re a newly-minted PhD invited for an on-campus, the school is essentially saying that you meet the requirements for the position (i.e. on paper, you’re acceptable). But, so are the other individuals who are invited for on-campus interviews. Thus, they’re not really trying to rank-order you in terms of qualifications anymore–all of you are above the minimum. (There are exceptions to that rule, in that you will occasionally get schools that are absolutely committed to program rankings and the like, but they are few and far between these days). In general, what the committees are trying to figure out at this stage is essentially ‘who can I stand to eat lunch with for the next couple decades?’

      One of the aspects that is often missed (by outsiders, but also by candidates) is that you almost never know whether the person you are speaking with has a lot of power, some power, or no power to affect the hire. That power is often exercised indirectly, and can bite you in the strangest ways if you manage to upset them. As much as social norms, like handshaking, might seem odd, antiquated, or unpleasant, they are still norms. And, since I’m discussing norms, let me point out that academia tends to be far more rank-conscious than most fields. As such, knowing that you are the applicant seeking an opportunity to climb onto the bottom rung of the rank ladder, you have less standing than you might like to essentially violate the social norm of having somebody put their hand out for a handshake.

      It’s always astounding to me whenever I’m on a hiring committee (and at this point, that’s measured in the high double digits, at least) and somebody makes character judgments on the basis of insignificant issues (‘oh, was she the one that wouldn’t shake hands?’) but it does happen fairly regularly. And believe it or not, those little things can magnify, especially when there has been a substantial amount of time between your visit and the decision (which can often be a few weeks, depending on a lot of factors outside the committee’s control.)

      If you want some great on-campus advice, check out The Tenured Radical, her blog frequently visits the issue of how to ace on-campus interviews. Personally, my advice is to think of everything as a bit of a marathon–and you have to be “on” for almost all of the time you are there. You are essentially trying to manufacture lifelong relationships with a lot of different people on a very short time schedule. You are also trying to help them envision a future in which you are one of their colleagues–so the more you can discuss things that are more distant than the upcoming semester, the better. What long-term initiatives might you want to undertake? (This can include your own research projects, of course, but it can also include other things you would bring to the table).

      My final advice? Treat everyone as a special guest–the servers during your meals with committee members, the students you meet in passing, everyone. You’d be astounded how often job applicants are rejected because of how they act toward people they don’t think can help their prospects!

      Good luck with the on-campus visit, of course. It always helped me to remember that everyone who was interviewing me had gone through the same process, and had to have at least some degree of sympathy for me.

    5. Seeking Second Childhood*

      There have been pictures in the news of health officials doing an elbow bump. (Important tip, it’s not the Rocky Horror version, though that could be interesting in some social circles.)
      I have been wondering if we could switch to bowing or saluting, but that will take longer than one interview cycle.

  45. Little Beans*

    I need advice on how to recover from a weird interaction with my new boss.

    My new boss started about a month ago and we just had our second meeting. She asked me to lead the hiring committee for a new position because she didn’t have time to do it herself – I agreed but started asking some questions to get clarity, and it quickly became apparent that this position was in another unit (my boss supervises 2 overlapping groups but this person would apparently not be in the overlapping area). So I asked if there wouldn’t be someone better suited and suggested a few names of people I thought might be good, while still saying I’d be happy to do it if she thought I was the best person. She then said that part of being a leader is stepping up and I should want to take advantage of growth opportunities (which this isn’t, because I’ve done a lot of hiring already). We ended with her saying that she’d explore other options, and with me still insisting that I would do it happily if she needed me to. I also offered to lead the search for a different role that is actually in my unit, but she said someone else is already taking care of that.

    My partner thinks I should go back and say I’ll do it. And I am willing to, but it feels like a pretty significant time commitment for a position I won’t even work with directly. Should I just do it anyway? Or is there another way to repair this brand new relationship? This person is probably not going to stay my boss long term, but she will be a leadership person I have to work with.

    1. Kathenus*

      I can’t speak to whether or not you should do this, but at my organization we routinely have someone from an outside but related area sit in on some higher level interviews to get another perspective on the candidates.

      1. Little Beans*

        Yes, that’s normal here too. But that is usually someone who does similar work to the role that’s being hired for and can provide that perspective, or has a stake in selecting the person because they will work with them in some capacity in the future. Neither is true in my case.

        1. valentine*

          I think it came across as you questioning her decision and disparaging your ability. It might have gone better if you had waited for an answer after asking if she wanted someone from the other unit to do it, rather than offering names.

    2. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      It sounds to me like your new boss doesn’t (yet?) have a good grasp of all of what goes on in the areas she oversees.

      Another warning sign – do you know who is overseeing the search for your report (?) (“a different role that is actually in my unit, but she said someone else is already taking care of that”) Is it someone within or outside your ‘chain of command’? Surely if it was in your CoC you would know about it, so I’m assuming it is outside.

      The ‘stepping up’ comment sounds like more of a face saving attempt. If it was really about (as a couple of comments suggested) getting a perspective outside the CoC she should have said that and it would have been valid – rather than presenting it as a ‘growth opportunity’ (?!)

      Having said that – I concur with your partner that you should go back and agree to do that hiring process, but possibly for different reasons than they had. (You didn’t say what reasoning your partner had for why they said that – have they said?)

      I would do it, pursue the “someone else is overseeing the hiring for a position that’s in your area” angle if it seems relevant… and then go into ‘information gathering’ mode. Be on the lookout for any signs that boss isn’t in touch with the stuff she is overseeing or otherwise is ‘unaware’ (and I bet you’ll find them!)

    3. CM*

      I would just leave it alone. It sounds like what you said was very reasonable so, if saying it damages your relationship somehow, that’s her being weird, not you.

      I’m a little bit curious about what was said during your first meeting with her if this was your second. Like, did you ask for more leadership opportunities and this was her trying to find you one? If you had some kind of conversation about your goals, it would make a little more sense. But, if you didn’t have that conversation, and she’s telling you in your second ever meeting that this is a growth opportunity and you need to step up more… that seems a little presumptuous.

  46. alacrity*

    We are reorganizing the office space and while my new cube location isn’t the worst possible they could have chosen for me, it’s pretty darn close. Does anyone have any suggestions for good noise-cancelling headphones? I have a feeling I will need those at minimum to survive.

    1. No Tribble At All*

      I have both Bose QuietComfort 35 (at work) and Beats Studio3 Wireless (at home). Both are absurdly expensive and have very good sound canceling– make airplanes comfortable, completely block out conversation. And I mean “people have to tap me on the shoulder” noise canceling. I don’t have any problems with the active noise canceling that I know headphones have had even ~ 10 years ago. I recommend either, with the Beats Studio3 slightly more, but that’s also a $350 pair of headphones.

      Bose:
      + better case — has pockets for chargers, and the headphones fold flat
      – dedicated app for initial setup/pairing with iphones (pairs natively with windows bluetooth)
      + slightly cheaper?
      – headphone default size is slightly too large for my head, so they slide down on my ears a little bit (I’m an average size woman. If you’re teeny, the QC may be too big for you). The headphones are supported on my ears rather than the top of my head.
      + ~20 hours charge

      Beats:
      + better sound canceling — can even block out sirens
      + headphones are slightly lighter
      + headphone default size is slightly smaller, so they’re a little more comfortable
      – case doesn’t have pockets for chargers, and the headphones fold into a more rounded/spherical shape than the Bose
      + pairs quickly & easily with Apple devices (have not tried with non-apple devices)
      + 22 hrs battery life, charges absurdly fast
      + can pause music & skip to next song from headphones

      2. Cotton Headed Ninny Muggins*

        I can second the Bose as far as quality. I am actually still using a pair of Bose Quiet Comfort 2 from 2009 that have held up well. The active noise cancelling works really well around my office and the case helps to keep them protected. I can’t speak for Bluetooth as mine are wired.

      3. Amethystmoon*

        I got the Bose as well and it does work. I have a coworker who clears her throat constantly and it blocked her out very well, and I didn’t even have to turn the volume all the way up. It was about halfway.

    2. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      If you want to look at something a little cheaper for the interim and save up for the super expensive nice ones – I have a pair of $50 AmazonBasics earmuff style bluetooth headphones that are not actively noise-canceling, but when I have them on, my husband can walk into my office behind me and start talking to me and it’ll be a solid two or three minutes before I realize he’s even there. (And he has no volume control. :P ) I can’t wear them while my dogs are outside in my backyard because I won’t hear the big one barking or the little one banging on the sliding door to come back in. They start to put a little bit of pressure on my ears after like, 5-6 hours, but I think that’s a factor of most big headphones.

        1. alacrity*

          Oops that was supposed to go to Tribble, but thank you for your suggestion. I will look into these ones as well as I don’t know how much I want to spend.

    3. eshrai*

      I just got the Bose that No Tribble At All mentioned and they work pretty good. I have a small head and they fit fine. Noise cancelling isn’t perfect, but with music on it is great. I got the limited edition rose gold ones because they are on sale on Amazon for $215 instead of $350. The Beats that Tribble mentioned though sound a bit better…

    4. Seeking Second Childhood*

      My co-workers swear by Cowin E7 headphones and I tried them to find they do a great job against machinery sounds. But be warned, my first attempt to buy E7 I received something that’s Bluetooth with no noise-cancellation switch. This might explain the huge range of reviews, if two products have near identical names. My replacement just arrived, I’ll report back if I found the right variant name.

    5. Avasarala*

      Sony’s Xm series. They have wireless earbud and over ear versions. Pricey but Sony has the best tech in the business for this stuff. You can listen to ASMR on an airplane.

  47. Adminanon*

    How do you know when it’s time to move on from a job?
    Some background: midsize, family owned company. I am admin to the executive team, including one of the owners. There is a slight chance of advancing when the business manager retires in a few years but I’m not sure I’m qualified.
    I like my coworkers, and the job itself. It’s interesting and varied with a lot of self direction.
    Benefits are crap, pay is okay. The two people I directly support are… volatile. One feels all of his emotions at everyone, and the other is better at managing them himself but swears and bangs on his desk when frustrated.
    Job is also about half an hour to 40 minutes from home. Not a crisis but I have kids in school and I’d love to be able to take a long lunch once in a while to read to their class or have lunch with kiddo.
    I’m pretty sure it’s time to move on, but how do you know it’s the right choice?

    1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      How many years have you been there?

      I’ll tell you that moving on and even into a similar role in a different company, will get you hot traction a lot of time and you’re worth more than they’re paying you most likely. I’ve almost doubled my pay the last few years with the more experience I get. They like it when you have a solid work history, 5 years here and 3-5 years there, kind of thing. It shows you’re trainable and catch on well ;)

      Dip your toes in. Remember that you can “window shop” jobs! And casually cast out lines. You don’t have to get yourself in “immediate launch” mode. Take a sniff, see what’s being offered. Depending on your area, it’s a job seekers market. It sure is around here.

    2. ThatGirl*

      I am of the opinion that if you’re thinking it might be time to move on, you should start looking. That doesn’t mean you’re desperate, or that you HAVE to take any particular job – it means you can see what’s out there. Polish up your resume, see what is available that you’re qualified for and interested in, see where it goes. It’s information gathering. It’s always allowed :)

      1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

        Seconding this. Start seeing what jobs are out there and apply to a few.

        Checking what’s out there isn’t committing you to leaving. And, as others have experienced (including me!) a job search often takes longer than expected.

      2. Fikly*

        Agreed. Also, job searching is so much more tolerable when it’s not urgent and you’re not desperate.

    3. Havarti*

      You’re pretty sure it’s time to move on so it’s the right choice for you. Since we can’t see the future, we can only make decisions based on the info we have right now. So there’s a slight chance of advancing in a few years. Eh, that’s not a sure enough thing to stay around for. Benefits and pay could be better somewhere else. People with anger management issues is bad. Commute’s not to your liking. These are all valid issues. Start looking around to see what your options are.
      Here’s the breakdown based on what you wrote:
      Pros:
      – You like your job and coworkers
      Cons:
      – Little room for advancement
      – Crap benefits
      – Volatile bosses
      – Commute too long(?)

    4. Mama Bear*

      Time to go is before you dread every day and it is killing your soul. If the writing on the wall is that you don’t want to be there long-term, dust off your resume. You won’t know what’s available until you look around. You also have the benefit of having a steady paycheck while you look.

    5. Miss May*

      Just looking at this from a pro-con standpoint, I’d say you’re ready. There are WAY more cons than there is pros. Move on, friend.

  48. CuriousJane*

    Is there a reason I’m missing that people would not want to share Outlook Calendars? The group I’m supervising at the moment is comprised of people that work on a wide cross section of projects, so it can be difficult to keep track of schedules and coordinate times to meet, as well as just know if people will be at their desk. There’s no stated calendar policy at my company, but it seems to me most people don’t and rely on Outlook scheduling assistant and a simple busy/tentative listing. I’ve decided to be the change I want to see and share my calendar with my whole team, and encourage people to do the same if they’re comfortable, but haven’t gotten much in return. There aren’t any legal implications in the types of meetings we support so I’m a little puzzled at the lack of traction. If there are personal appointments on people’s calendars, it’s an easy click to make them private.

    1. Alice*

      What can you accomplish with shared calendars that you can’t accomplish with Outlook scheduling assistant?

      1. Lucette Kensack*

        Scheduling assistant is tied to the level of calendar sharing. If folks won’t share their calendar, or won’t share any details beyond the blocks of time, the scheduling assistant isn’t useful.

        Because different people use Outlook differently, it’s important for schedulers to be able to see at least some details about people’s calendar, such as: whether blocked time is a meeting vs. work time (or a hold for a future meeting, or a reminder that the food truck you love will be there during that time, etc.); whether the appointment is on site or offsite (does the scheduler need to account for travel time?); who else is involved with the meeting (if the scheduler needs to ask someone to adjust their schedule, who should she ask? probably not the person who is leading a meeting with 23 other people, or the person with the meeting with the CEO), etc.

        1. Alice*

          In this case I think that “being the change you want to see” isn’t going to change people’s behavior, especially when the whole company seems to be getting along ok just sharing busy/tentative status.
          The food truck part — sure, tell people that there’s a “show as free” option. But the rest? Until it’s causing a business problem (and not just “a scheduler could hypothetically be more efficient”), I don’t see how you’re going to get people to 1. change their sharing settings and 2. include accurate location info that is understandable to the scheduler.
          Also — if you’re scheduling so many one-off meetings with large numbers of participants that the scheduling assistant isn’t useful, maybe the problem is the number of meetings.

          I mean, for your team, go for it — you can tell them what you want, instead of just modeling it. But expecting people whom you don’t manage to do this because you are modeling the good behavior — I don’t think it’ll succeed. I hope it works out though.

          1. Lucette Kensack*

            I agree. I was responding to your question about what she could accomplish with shared calendars (over and above what she can accomplish with the scheduler).

        2. CM*

          This is getting away from the original point of the question, but what you’re describing sounds really intense to me. I have pretty good calendar hygiene (e.g., showing reminders as free time, including travel time as a separate appointment, etc) and I know not everyone does, but I’d feel strange about trying to game out everyone else’s schedule that much.

          For internal meetings, I normally just pick a block where everybody’s free and tell them to propose a different time through Scheduling Assistant if it doesn’t work for some reason. If there’s no block where everyone’s free, I either solve that problem with my voice or I come up with a different way to get the input I need without having everyone at the same meeting. I wouldn’t want to try to figure out how long it takes people to walk to their yoga studio, or whether their yoga is more or less important than someone else’s appointment.

    2. That'll happen*

      How long have you been in this position? It sounds like you’re in a culture that doesn’t share calendars the way you do and most don’t want to change that. It sounds like your company’s default is that everyone can see free/busy details, which should be enough for scheduling. It could be that they block out time to work on projects in their calendar. It could be they’re used to putting personal information on their work calendar and haven’t been making those appointments private – sure, it’s an easy click, but that’s a habit that can take time to build. What happens if you forget and then your colleagues know private information about you?

      Is there a business reason that you need to know specific details of people’s calendars?

      1. AndersonDarling*

        Yeah, if there currently isn’t a problem scheduling meetings, then there doesn’t seem to be a need to share calendar details. Even if you have their details, you still won’t know if they are at their desk. I’d stick with reminding people to keep their calendars updated, block out Work From Home days, and if they are not attending a meeting then change it to available.

    3. Pwyll*

      I recently left a company where the culture was that we very openly shared our Outlook calendars with anyone we work with on a consistent basis, and have since moved to a new company where calendar sharing occurs ONLY between you and your team admin (if you’re lucky enough to have a team admin). My colleague mentioned to me it was all about making clear YOU own your own schedule, but frankly that’s not true in any event.

      I don’t get it either. Seems a lot more efficient to me to share and avoid locked meetings and important bookings instead of “I saw only 6/9 of you are available at this time so hoping you can rearrange!” “Can’t move this meeting.” “OK, what about this one that works for 5/9 of you?” “Wow, your entire week is blue!”

    4. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      Two possibilities I’ve experienced:

      1) It’s not making it onto their “to do” list, since people don’t want to take the time to change their calendar permissions and/or don’t want to learn how to change their calendar permissions.

      2) They use their Outlook calendar for both personal and work, so they want to keep the personal stuff private (ironic, I know, given they’re putting it in a work application in the first place) and don’t want to use or learn how to use the “private” setting.

    5. Should I apply?*

      I have my outlook settings show busy/free times and not details. My company already has a problem with too many meetings. The last thing I want to encourage is someone scheduling over an existing meeting because they think it isn’t as important as their meeting. I also do block off some time on my calendar to work on projects because otherwise I would never get anything. I would ask, what is your actual problem (scheduling meetings?) and does your solution address if for the whole team.

      1. Lawyer*

        Yeah, I don’t want a third party deciding they can schedule over time I’ve blocked for work. If I’ve blocked it, I need it.

    6. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      Are you newly supervising these people? They work on a “wide cross section of projects”, some of which aren’t in your purview I infer. So to them it could seem like “micromanagement” for the new boss to want to know the x and y of every individual project related meeting, review session, daily standup or whatever is relevant.

      If you just want to find a suitable time to meet that is just as easy with free/busy information as it is with sharing details of the calendar.

    7. Anonnington*

      I can see people wanting to keep some stuff private, even if it’s work-related and you supervise them. Things that come to mind: internal interviews, meetings with HR, meetings with your boss to escalate a serious concern. It would be reasonable to want privacy as a “what if,” sort of thing, not because any of those things are necessarily going on.

      Are there alternate options? And/or could you come up with a policy for the team where people have to share their schedules but a reasonable amount of privacy is also afforded?

  49. Work Worries*

    Any insight into negotiating post-employee agreement but pre-signing it? This is the first time I’ve ever negotiated a salary and I’m worried I might lose this job opportunity.

    I interviewed at a small company in the same industry that could be a phenomenal job (possibly more difficult and requiring more time for travel than my current job). I am currently working at a large company (doing work in the same industry).

    1. When asked through the series of interviews, I advised “My floor is X, but I also receive A, B, C, D benefits.” (This was met positively, with what seemed to be subtext encouraging me to negotiate more).
    2. Upon receiving the offer letter I was told to review it, take my time, and come back with any additional requirements. (Also, seemed to be more subtext to negotiate more.)
    3. I reviewed it, saw that the benefits package was very light (ex: no 401k, among other tangible benefits I currently receive), and returned with a professional, polite email restating my interest in the job but asking for a salary bump of 18%, and a question if they had merit bonuses and if their professional development benefit could be used towards a part-time advanced degree program, with a few points supporting my rationale (mostly relating to lack of tangible benefits). In hindsight, this feels aggressive, but it is commensurate with my current total package.
    4. I worded the email asking them to consider, rather than demanding these changes, and provided enough information that they could come back and meet me partially (I.e. If they do have merit bonuses and/or education reimbursement, I wouldn’t worry so much about the salary).

    I’ve been burned before for not negotiating, and I feel I did the correct thing here, but can’t shake the nagging feeling in my head and the horror stories I’ve heard online of offers being rescinded. Many of my trusted friends I go to for professional advice said I did the right thing, one said it was “dangerous” and another said “negotiating is always a risk, but you did it correctly, whatever happens next is up to them.”

    Question: How likely is it that offers are actually rescinded without telling the employee the original offer is firm/giving them the option to still sign the first offer?

    1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      It’s pretty unlikely they would rescind just because you negotiated (as the vast majority of your professional friends said; curious about how reliable an advice source the friend who called it “dangerous” is).

      If the company did rescind without coming back and saying “Sorry, the offer is firm” that tells you a lot about the company (i.e. run, don’t walk, away). Also, note who the HR and hiring manager are, as they might be folks to be wary of in the future.

    2. learnedthehardway*

      It depends on the company and what they can realistically afford, and how much they want you specifically. I don’t think you’re out of line at all for negotiating the offer, and you have very solid reasons for doing so.

      Worst case scenario – well, if they do rescind the offer, at least you’re not taking an actual cut in total compensation.

  50. No Tribble At All*

    Looking for advice about the prof for my online master’s class! His personal life is interfering with the class.

    Prof is the classic absent-minded professor, and it’s started to become a problem with the coursework. Examples: the posted notes were missing information (like a whole section of slides were gone), and I only noticed because he screenshared his version during office hours. I had to remind him to post the corrected version. He also grades things incorrectly sometimes, and I’ve had to email him to get my points back. He’ll send half-completed emails or just forget to send the email at all (“I sent the solutions out Tuesday” when no one in class got an email Tuesday). These are non-trivial mistakes.

    The most recent time I emailed him about something like this (“Hi Prof X, looks like your email got messed up. You were saying something about the midterm?”) he replied that he’s distracted because his mother is ill. So now I feel like I can’t bug him about missing points on the last homework, because…. his mom is sick! But on the other hand, someone needs to manage the class! The midterm is next week. He doesn’t have an assistant for this class or even a grader, so I don’t know who else to ask for help. Is it worth reaching out to the department?

    1. Dust Bunny*

      . . . I would. People are paying money for this and have grades/credits depending on it.

      1. valentine*

        You are not bugging him. He is failing to meet his commitment to you. Which is on him. Continue raising issues with him. (No sense martyring yourself. Your incorrect points won’t help his mother.) And tell the department head.

    2. Environmental Compliance*

      In this case, I think personally I’d be reaching out to the department chair *if* I didn’t have a thesis/degree adviser. At my undergrad, I did have an adviser in department, so I would have gone to them first, but for my MS, I really didn’t have that (I had a thesis adviser, but that wouldn’t have worked to go to him with how it was set up there, if that makes sense), so I would have gone to department chair.

      It really sucks to be in that position. I hope it works out for both you and him. He really needs an assistant if he can’t keep up with the generic teaching stuff (seriously, posting things is basic and doesn’t need him specifically!).

    3. Faith*

      Definitely go to the department chair. At the very least, they need to be aware of this, and it’s likely it’s an on-going pattern. As a grad student, your complaint will have more weight, too.

      I’d make a simple list of everything so you don’t forget when you speak with them.

    4. Lyudie*

      I would…I actually did complain about an MIA prof once. They are likely aware of his situation but maybe not that he could really use a helping hand (maybe they can send him a TA or something).

    5. Anonnington*

      Yeah, contact the dean. His reasons are none of your business, really. He needs to have that conversation with his boss, not just his students. The school needs to make sure the class is being taught. And when you reach out, cc someone else in authority so there will be more accountability (just in case the dean is his drinking bud and is intentionally letting this slide).

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Yeah, I contacted the dean in regarding and undergrad prof. His sentences would begin with one thought on one topic and end with a completion half of a sentence regarding another topic.
        Imagine something like this:
        “And so folks grass is green and this green color brought about the end of WWII.”

        I stopped taking notes after the first week. Most of the sentences like this had the class sighing and eye rolling in unison.
        His big problem was someone was harassing him. We could never figure out why and we never saw this person although apparently this person contacted him frequently. We tried being sympathetic at first thinking the situation would calm down. By mid-semester nothing had changed and everyone was in an uproar.

        What happened next totally ticked me off. The dean said he would investigate MY report because I was credible because of my excellent grades. wtf. So you only listen to the people who suit you????
        It was the only class I got a B in and I blame it on not being able to figure out how the green in the grass ended WWII.

  51. Loopy*

    Struggling with a change in professional dress. I am moving into a position where I will need to dress more formally. A few quirks have me stuck. I like sheath dresses and would like to wear black tights with them because I am usually cold.

    However I am super sensitive about waistband pressure and hate something constricting around my middle. I can wear leggings but tights tend to be really bothersome. I really want to wear tights with my dresses, but don’t know if there’s a brand more friendly/comfortable with my sensitivity quirk.

    I also really dislike pants because they become easily bothersome if I am bloated. But dress is becoming more important and I’m stressed and anxious. Any ideas would be welcome.

      1. Loopy*

        Sadly, I usually can’t find a length where knee high socks would work but I hadn’t consider thigh high socks/products!

        1. 2e*

          Commando Up All Night Thigh Highs are thigh-high, opaque black tights with a silicone band around the top to hold them in place. I wear them under knee-length dresses and have never had an issue. A game changer for winter work wear!

    2. straws*

      I wear leggings with all of my dresses. On days that I don’t want the bare-ankle look, I just wear boots.

      1. NW Mossy*

        Ditto – I found some inexpensive ones on Amazon that are really soft and stretchy, since I too hate pressure on my waist/stomach.

    3. Shramps*

      I think you will need to try different brands of tights to find the right fit. Do not get control top, obviously.

      1. Dancing Otter*

        Oddly, when I had to wear hose, I found control top cut into my waist LESS because there wasn’t a pressure differential between the waistband and the control section.

    4. M*

      Could you try stockings with a garter belt? I don’t know if that would feel constricting in the same way to you.

    5. Batgirl*

      I find that footless tights and really good quality tights feel much more like leggings.
      I’m a big fan of wool mix tights, as they are sturdy like leggings without needing waist pressure. I also like John Lewis’s Egyptian cotton tights which are the same sort of deal – this is in the UK though.
      You might look into the longer midi dresses which are all in right now. You can wear tightless with higher boots or ankle boots with just a few inches of bare leg.

    6. AndersonDarling*

      I buy all my socks and tights from SockDreams because they have thorough reviews and tell you how tight the tights are, how well the socks stay up, how things fit on people who have different shapes…so there isn’t any risk in your orders. And their photos are super creative!

      1. Mama Bear*

        SockDreams also has good customer service. I messed up a Christmas gift and they were quick to help.

    7. Intermittent Introvert*

      I love Snag tights. I can barely feel them on. Sturdy. Reasonably priced. Snag.com — I think.

      2. Marzipan*

        I got a load of Snag tights because I couldn’t find any maternity tights in interesting colours, and they advertise their ordinary tights as being sufficiently stretchy and comfortable to work as maternity ones. Can confirm!

      3. Quandong*

        I can also wholeheartedly recommend Snag tights, as a fat person with an intense and enduring dislike of pressure on my abdomen or waist from any clothing, who also lives in the subtropics.

    8. Ama*

      I have a hard time finding them, but a few times I’ve managed to find tights that specifically say they have a low waistband, which makes them cut across my hips rather than the middle of my stomach. Unfortunately I don’t recall what any of the brands were. They wouldn’t have come from anywhere fancy though — Target or Kohl’s or someplace.

    9. Constance Lloyd*

      Hue tights are really great, in my experience. I’ve also had great success simply buying tights a couple sizes bigger than recommended. They’re still fitted at the leg, slightly not opaque, and much less restrictive at the midsection.

    10. Quaremie*

      I’ll be honest… I wear black opaque maternity tights, and I’m not pregnant. I’m in a normal weight range but I find regular tights WAY too tight and uncomfortable. I will only buy maternity tights moving forward :)

    11. Lucette Kensack*

      What do you currently wear? It sounds like pants aren’t a good option, dresses without tights aren’t a good option, and dresses with tights aren’t a good option. Can you translate whatever you’ve found that works for you now to an “upgraded” version for a more formal environment?

    12. A tester, not a developer*

      I have IBD, so I bloat like it’s my job. :)
      I’ve been very happy with ‘under the belly’ maternity tights.

    13. maternity tights?*

      If pressure around your ribcage would be ok, you might try maternity tights. They generally cover the whole stomach and would be unconstricting in that area. YMMV with regard to whether you’ll have issues with sliding down, but I’ve worn my post-pregnancy and been fine (in contrast to my maternity jeans which essentially fall off me now).

      1. maternity tights?*

        Just saw the above post also suggesting maternity tights, but ‘under the belly’. As my “generally cover the whole stomach” language would imply, I didn’t know that under-bump maternity tights existed, so I’m following up to note that (1) the style I referenced and the style A tester, not a developer referred to are different and (2) make sure you know which you’re purchasing (and maybe try both, if the first one you try doesn’t work for you).

    14. Comfortable TIghts*

      Loopy, I feel the same way. I’m a big fan of H&M’s black tights (on the packaging it says they are made in Italy) – they are on the thicker side and not constricting around the middle as most other tights are. I live in NY and wear them a lot during the winter – they are more comfortable than pants!

    15. Begone, tight waist*

      I can recommend Kixies thigh highs, but they might not be as opaque or thick as you want. Still, they are phenomenal at staying up with no garter belt needed, and they can go up really high. I love them.

  52. Quill*

    Popping in to say that I’m just… very overwhelmed by how little instructional paperwork there is for my new responsibilities.

    But also way too overwhelmed to make any right now.

    Which does explain why the job duties are the way they are, i.e. numerous and ever-increasing as I attempt to finish literally any one single item.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      I hear ya.
      I never did write that book.
      Finally TPTB wrote a book. I can’t read it. It is so freakin’ condescending. I got a few pages into it and put it down.
      My boss looked at it and said, “Don’t even bother.”

  53. Brownie*

    This week my manager finally admitted that even though they’re on the on-call roster, meaning they’re responsible for all the tickets coming in during that week, every time their week comes around they use their manager powers to shove all the tickets onto other members of my team.

    I am LIVID. It’s well-known that no one on my team likes being on call since it means putting off all project work for a week to handle tickets, but we all do it as part of being a team. And yet, my manager is shrugging off the work and when asked why, said that they were too busy to do any of it. This is the same boss who spends at least 6 hours per week, usually in 1 hour chunks, socializing with their work buddies and ignoring all work emails/requests. Their socialization has reached a point where now they and the work buddies will actually go into closed-door offices to avoid being interrupted by urgent/emergency work requests. At this point I can’t wait for our upcoming reorg when I’m out from under this manager.

  54. The Man, Becky Lynch*

    I feel like I need to give my new boss a heads up that me at 120%, jacked up on energy drinks [which oddly helps me reel in my ADHD at times like this] is not me. This is “I have a new boss, I have two bosses, the city is in hysterics cuz disease and we’re having a record 1st QTR…” me.

    Also…I’m thinking about making us shirts that says “It takes a village to train a CEO.” It’s only starting…it’s only starting.

    I hope everyone is healthy and that if anything good comes of this pandemic it’s that we take sick days and WFH a lot more frigging seriously moving forward. I won’t hold my breath but I’m a girl with dreams.

    1. T. Boone Pickens*

      Without knowing any of the context of your company or your new CEO I’d probably refrain on making those shirts as it seems like not a good look?

      1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

        Anyone who thinks that CEO’s just train themselves is living in an alternative reality. They don’t drop out of the sky knowing a damn thing about the business they’re taking on, LOL.

        1. Quill*

          Shirt is funny but you have to train your CEO to have a sense of humor before you can wear it.

          1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

            +1

            …but also, probably not a bad idea to include “sense of humor” as part of the training.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Years ago my uncle said he thought that coffee helped with ADD and could almost be used as a test for ADD. I never did find out what happened that caused him to think that way. But he concluded that if a person calms DOWN with coffee then there is a good possibility of some ADD going on.

      This only served to make my relationship with coffee even more complex.

      1. Seeking Second Childhood*

        When I told my mother in law that my then 8yo could not have caffeinated drinks and did have to take her ADD meds, M.I.L. first tried to argue that tea didn’t have caffeine (!?), and then declared that ‘coffee used to be prescribed for this’. …Which helped make my relationship with my M.I.L. even more complex.

      2. Alexandra Lynch*

        The caffeine can help, admittedly, but I do way better taking two small doses of my meds six hours apart, even if I do have to set phone reminders, than I did when I tried to have a lot of hot black tea first thing in the morning, then take the ADHD med at noon.

  55. Hedgehog*

    Any advice for a situation where one employee is being publicly criticized? My office had an all-staff retreat and a situation came up that led to the CEO delivering a public dressing down of one person’s actions and a long discussion on how unacceptable they were. It was Extremely Uncomfortable (it felt like a public shaming) and imho should have been a private conversation. A couple of us tried to interject but were shut down by management.

    Beyond just sitting in awkward silence and feeling mortified for the individual, what would you do in this situation? The power dynamics at play made me hesitate to object more strongly in the moment, but I’m left with this sick feeling that I was a bystander to something horrible and wishing that I had done more to intervene.

    1. irene adler*

      If one can’t shut down the public shaming, one can exit the room. Or, if that’s not possible, turning one’s back to the dressing down might also work. Or moving to the far end of the room. Idea being to remove the ‘public’ aspect from the public shaming.

      How horrible that this even happened. Shame on those who facilitated this.

    2. Kathenus*

      Speaking up after the fact in any way that you think might be helpful could change future behavior. But the other thing you can do is to reach out to the person who was targeted and let them know that you support them (not talking about their job performance, but them as a human being and their entitlement to respect), and that you (and many people) think that this was handled really inappropriately.

    3. Anonymousss0*

      Doesn’t it depend on the reason for the dressing down though?

      To me it would make a big difference if the issue was something like wearing the wrong color shirt versus admitting in front of the CEO that you fudge your timesheet and leak proprietary information. (Although I can’t imagine why that person would still have a job)

    4. Not So NewReader*

      It would depend on the nature of the “crime” and if the person still remained with the company.

      If the nature of the crime was NOT dismiss-able and the person remained employed, then I might be sorely tempted to send a message up the ladder via my own boss that I am concerned about how employees are treated and I am concerned that I could be publicly humiliated for a minor mistake or excusable common human error.

      Or maybe I’d print out the dunce cap letter and show it to my own boss, “Is this next?”.

    5. CM*

      Without knowing the details, it’s hard to say.

      I once worked with a problematic CEO who would turn management meetings into a shooting gallery where he’d just go around the table and verbally attack the people he was mad at for whatever reason. All of us were really embarrassed and uncomfortable and also scared because we didn’t want to be attacked, too, and we also didn’t want to lose our jobs. We’d just stare at our hands and shoot stressed expressions at each other.

      The real answer to that situation was that the Board needed to remove the CEO, and nothing else was going to improve the situation — and, indeed, some of us started trying to make that happen. I also privately approached one of the people the CEO picked on most after one of the meetings and asked if he wanted me to try to defend him next time, and he told me he didn’t (he was already trying to get another job and just wanted to get the yelling over with as fast as possible without me getting dragged into it too). Another thing I did was start taking to other managers and staff about how the CEO’s behavior wasn’t acceptable to me, and I wanted us to discuss it more openly so we could figure out how to respond as a group — but that was really politically complicated.

      In your situation, it’s hard for me to know for sure how risky it is for you to do stuff. But, if there are people you trust, you could try broaching the topic with them. Let them know you’re not okay with what happened, try to find out how they feel about it, and talk together about how you think you should respond if something like that happens again. If it’s safe — and it truly might not be — you could make a complaint with HR, but that highly depends on how trustworthy your HR reps are and how much you believe they’re willing to get bullied to protect you.

      If, after talking to some people and thinking about the situation and the culture at your workplace and how trustworthy HR is or isn’t, you find yourself in a place where you’re willing to get fired because that feels like the right thing to do, then you’re marvelously free and, the next time this happens, you can shut it down. But, if you’re not willing to get fired, your best bet is to organize with other people. There’s strength in just knowing that everybody else thinks this is messed up, too, and, if you’re feeling bold enough, you can all protest this together if it happens again, instead of making one person go out on a limb.

  56. AP No Noir*

    My boss has an “always on” smart speaker in their office, should I ask them to unplug it before sensitive meetings? If so, how?

    1. nnnnnnotme*

      I’d be so uncomfortable with that! And I’d say definitely ask them to unplug it before any meeting.

      Depending on the smart speaker, you may be able to find documentation online of all the things that brand of smart speaker picks up because it thinks it heard it’s name. It’s pretty bad.

      If it’s an Echo and you’re in the US, you could also just say “A lexapro prescription” and demonstrate that it lights up and records you talking because that sounded like “alexa” (lexapro being an antidepressant).

    2. Work Worries*

      A simple, “Could we please turn off the mic on your alexa/google home/whatever for this meeting?” but remember, tone is everything. Unplugging sometimes makes the whole thing reset but you should be able to turn off the mic quite easily. Alternatively, book a conference room for the meeting.

    3. ThatGirl*

      I’d recommend muting/turning the mic off instead, but yeah, that’s reasonable. With Echos (Alexa) it shows a red ring when it’s muted, so there’s no faking it.

    5. Fikly*

      My dad is a computer programmer. He puts opaque tape over the webcam on his laptop. I’m gonna assume he has good reason.

      1. nonegiven*

        My son is also a software developer and won’t put web cams in his house to watch the kitties when he is away.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      “Do you want me to remind you when your smart speaker is on and could possibly pick up something we say, since these are sensitive topics?”

      The first time you ask is the worst, because you don’t know what you are going to get met with. My boss forgets her cell. Since we have talked about it before, all I do is say, “How’s the cell doing?”

      Or you could go with, “I am concerned that the smart speaker will pick up our words.”

  57. straws*

    So… coronavirus. We’re a tiny company in a US state that (so far) is unaffected. We have minimal travel, except for this month. Half of the company is traveling via air for personal or business travel. None of the travel is to affected states, although obviously the airport factor is a concern. Since it hasn’t really hit this area, discussions about remote work have mostly been met with an “is that really necessary?” air and grumbles about inconvenience (from both travelers and managers). All of our work can be done remotely, but we have a lot of in-person meetings and the higher ups are big on physical presence for that purpose. It’s my responsibility to have and enforce a plan, but my methods of enforcing it are limited mostly to scolding people if they don’t listen. How are other people in less affected areas handling things so far? Should I push back harder for action now, or simply have a plan in the wings in case the situation escalates closer to home?

    1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      My org (large, but also in a so-far unaffected state) just dropped an edict that all business-related travel out of the state is cancelled for the next 45 days, because they don’t want anyone to feel obligated to travel by air. (Basically, they don’t want people worrying about whether they’ll look flaky if they opt out, so they’re opting everyone out.) They’re encouraging everyone to do virtual meetings instead of the business travel if possible.

      They haven’t said anything about personal travel, except that if people are in one of the five specific high-risk countries (China, Italy, South Korea … Japan and Iran, I think, off the top of my head), they request that people self-quarantine for 14 days on their return, and if you work in a building where patients are seen, you have to be cleared by employee health to come back on-site from your self-quarantine. I don’t remember seeing anything about how that would be handled for employees who cannot work remotely.

    2. Mediamaven*

      So, I’m dealing with this as well, but I do think it’s important to remember that currently, neither the CDC nor infectious disease experts have recommended canceling travel in the U.S. I think having a plan based on any recommendations coming from those sources is a good idea!

      1. JessicaTate*

        I agree with Mediamaven. My approach is taking it all day-by-day and considering CDC and public health recommendations. We’re a small company in a (so far) unaffected state and our work requires travel to clients in the U.S. It would be lovely to just cancel travel, but without a larger directive, that would not be a good look for our clients. So we are: Skipping discretionary travel (e.g., conferences). If it’s drive-able, even if you’d normally fly, you can drive. But, at least for now, there’s going to be air travel, so just encouraging being as smart as you can with hygiene and minimizing exposure as possible.

        Frankly, I hope all of society can maintain these better hygiene practices in perpetuity. The number of people I see around who don’t cover their mouths when they cough/sneeze in public… Grrrr.

        That said, if I had an employee who had health conditions that made air travel particularly risky, I think we’d reassess for them and find someone else to cover.

    3. Mr. Shark*

      My CurrentJob is a big company, and they’ve cancelled all flights outside the U.S., and non-essential travel in the U.S. That still means a lot of travel in the U.S., though.
      They haven’t taken any other precautions that I’m aware of.

    4. Amethystmoon*

      The company I work for just sent out a flyer saying we can use FMLA. That is great news, but not everyone is eligible for FMLA.

  58. Batgirl*

    Has anyone worked as a private tutor? I could do with the after-school cash and lately a few teachers have passed out my number to two students they teach in other subjects. They’ve both flaked.
    I tutor small groups in school until they have high school levels of literacy but in the past I’ve taught up to A level (18 year olds) – in creative writing. I also used to teach low ability GCSE classes.
    I’m not sure where to find students or how to pitch myself.

    1. Pumpa Rumpa*

      My partner tutors occasionally. He uses a website called Wyzant. You can connect with people locally or do online.

    2. Zephy*

      I applied to be a tutor through WyzAnt a few years ago and had a few clients, but they’re US-based so I don’t know if you’d be able to use that exact service as it sounds like you’re in the UK – maybe there’s a UK equivalent. You communicate with clients through the website, so no giving out your personal email or phone number to strangers. You also get paid through the site, so they take a cut, but you do get to set your own hourly rate and such.

      If there’s no service like WyzAnt that operates in the UK, you might try good old-fashioned community advertising. You might not be able to advertise your services within the school you attend as a student, but if there’s a public library or other similar “third place” where you could post up a flyer, you might get clients that way. I would use a Google Voice or similar phone number and set up an email address specifically for this. I don’t know if the UK has any weird licensure requirements to be a tutor, but check on that, as well.

  59. goinganon*

    Anybody have suggestions for good responses to not-quite-apologies, like “I hope you weren’t offended/didn’t think I was criticizing you” or other things when in fact I was offended, thought I was being criticized, or otherwise was upset with the behavior in question?

    For example, recently I sent a coworker a bit of some work in progress because I was having a technical problem with something involved and wanted to check if she also had the same problem. After we addressed the actual problem, she responded with a bunch of suggestions via email of how she would’ve done the work. I responded that the work I sent her wasn’t complete to make sure she didn’t think otherwise, but I was also miffed, because this is part of an overall pattern of her treating me like I don’t know how to do things I’ve been doing for years and generally dismissing my suggestions unless she hears them from someone else’s mouth.

    The problem is, then she came into my office and said, “I hope you didn’t think I was critiquing you.” But the thing is, it very much read like she was critiquing me, so I wasn’t comfortable brushing it off with, “Oh, no, I just wanted to make sure you didn’t think I would send a client work of that quality!”

    1. Threeve*

      You can sort of split the difference, maybe? Not denying the non-apology, but not brushing it off either.

      “I hope you didn’t think I was critiquing you.”
      “It’s so hard to tell tone over email sometimes, isn’t it?”

      So you’re not straight-up accusing her of talking down to you, but you’re also not letting her off the hook for seeming like she was talking down to you.

    2. Leisel*

      I had a coworker who would do this. I would hand her a document and say, “did I spell that person’s name correctly? I can’t find a contact for them, so I haven’t been able to check it.” and then she would start telling me that’s not the font she usually uses…like it was more important than correct spelling. *Face palm*

      Maybe next time you can frame it before asking the question. Something like, “This is nowhere near finished, but I wanted to ask you about this issue I’ve run into…”

    3. Not All*

      I’v unfortunately had to work with my share of these people. I’m starting to think they are everywhere. When I was younger I went with the socially-conditioned smoothing response. Now I’m older & refuse to play the games to give them plausible deniability.

      In a very cheerful tone:
      “Oh I’m glad to hear you clarify that”
      “Tone often doesn’t come through as we intend in email, does it?”
      “Yes, that would have been a strange assumption for you to make since I’ve been doing this for years”
      etc

      Basically, I use perfectly friendly statements to agree that yes, they SHOULD be worried about how they came across because it did come across badly…but of course I know them far too well to think they could possibly have said something rude don’t I so it must have just been poorly phrased.

    4. Do I really want to do this?*

      While this might fall under not actually recommended advice, I would be very tempted to say that “yes, I did think you were critiquing me. If you didn’t want me to think that you should work on your communication skills”

    5. Jedi Squirrel*

      Since this is part of an overall pattern, I would just straight up ask “Is that an apology?”

    6. Close Bracket*

      That’s your opening to have a larger conversation. Respond with,

      “Thanks for bringing that up. It did sound like a critique, and that’s something I’d like to talk to you about. Do you have a minute?”

    7. Not So NewReader*

      “I hope you didn’t think I was critiquing you.”

      I am glad you stopped by to clarify because that was ambiguous and I did wonder somewhat.
      OR
      No, I did not think you were critiquing me. I have done this job for x years, I do know my job.
      OR
      Well, you were critiquing a rough draft so I grew kind of concerned that you did not see it was a ROUGH DRAFT. I was only asking about problem X. I was not asking about the entire body of work itself.

      My personal fav is the 3rd one.

    8. Batgirl*

      Well the apology doesn’t matter as long as you get what you want from her. It sounds like you want the critiques and suggestions to stop.
      So I would just say “Oh I was just letting you know that I didn’t need any help yet.
      “It’s actually distracting to get input before I’m done.
      “I will let you know if I do need help.”
      If every time she helps, or seeks clarifications from others unasked, you say “No thanks, I’m fine”, she may give up.
      But I’d consider if it’s possible to just not show her your work; perhaps describe or paraphrase instead, until you’re ready to show her.
      Either she’s critical and disrespectful of you or she’s well intentioned with a more collaborative style of everyone giving input; but either way we know she’s definitely driving you nuts by being included.

  60. and i did i did i did*

    When I leave this job, it will be entirely because of this one single coworker. It’s bad enough that I’m telling myself that, hey, if I die of the flu, at least I never have to deal with her ever again.

    The project manager is aware of the problems. The project manager don’t care.

    Anyway, I burst into tears at work not five minutes ago! Happy Friday!~!!!!

    2. Blueberry*

      You have all my sympathies. Sometimes it’s all one can do to keep breathing and keep going.

    3. Stormy Weather*

      Gah, I’m sorry it’s come to that. Some people are just horrid.

      I’m a PM and I’m sorry the one you have doesn’t care. They should be better.

    4. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      I’ve seen people leave because of a single person before and it’s awful. I’m sorry you’re in that situation and ef that person and double ef your project manager who doesn’t care. That’s not okay, they’re both actually awful people, nobody should allow you to be abused.

  61. kwagner*

    I am starting a part time position next week and have been looking for a second part time job to fill the other half of my week for a while now. I had a phone interview a while back for a position with good flexible hours, an ability to work from home, and great pay. However, the interview itself raised a bunch of red flags. For example, the biggest one was that the interviewer opened the conversation with the fact that the company didn’t have any open positions at the moment, despite the fact that I was looking at the week-old job posting with the title saying “multiple positions open”. When asked she said they could possibly have a position in one month, maybe more maybe less. The second was that the interviewer only asked me three questions and one of them was “what is your ideal salary”. And finally, the biggest one, while I was asking her questions she suddenly remembered to tell me that this job (an online customer service position that I could do from home half the week) needed me for two full time weeks of training. Is this normal for these types of positions? Am I justified in feeling weirded out by this whole process? Maybe I’m just stuck on the too-good-to-be-true pay and hours, but would there be a way for me to bring this training up to my boss at my other job?

    1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      Yeah, this sounds like a scam. It’s one thing to setup an exploratory interview, it’s another to post a job ad and then tell the applicants this is just an exploratory interview.

      If it was me, I would note the company and would not apply there again.

      1. kwagner*

        yeah, that’s kinda what I was thinking. Not a “fake job” per se but more of a totally neglectful one. It’s crazy though because this is a national (US) company that appears to be making moves and the glassdoor reviews were generally positive. Thanks for your response!

    2. Not So NewReader*

      I have seen some of this myself.

      At best this is a place that has no idea what they are doing. If they make errors like this on the introductory part, it will probably not get better as you go along.

  62. Narcoleptic Juliette*

    I’ve got a question for those of you who do hiring. Do you put more weight on relevant experience that’s not recent, or recent experience that’s not as relevant as you’d like?

    Let’s say you’re running an animal grooming and training company. More than 10 years ago, you hired Fergus as a llama trainer, and he did well at it. You closed your llama training department two years later, and moved Fergus to your llama, alpaca, and camel grooming department. Again, Fergus excelled. Four years later, you closed your ungulate grooming department, and moved Fergus to your grooming logistics department, where he’s been for 5 years.

    A year after Fergus started in the grooming department, you hired Wakeen as a llama, alpaca, and camel groomer. He did well. When you closed the ungulate grooming department (so Wakeen had been there for 3 years), you moved Wakeen to the dog grooming department, where he has now been for 5 years.

    You’ve now re-opened your llama training department, and are hiring a llama trainer. Both Fergus and Wakeen apply and both interview well. Who do you choose? Fergus has actual experience training llamas, but it’s 9 years old. Wakeen has been working directly with animals all along, but he’s never done any training. Who do you choose?

    1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      Current experience wins 99% of the time for me. It’s somewhat unfair because it sounds like Fergus didn’t choose to move on but because the department closed on him and therefore he was moved. However his skills are rusty, he’s not up to date with the latest llama grooming equipment. He’s got a bigger learning curve to battle than Wakeen.

      It’s never a deal breaker when someone has older experience but it’s a stutter step and a reason to edge them out in my hiring experiences.

      I’ll put it this way. I’ve been cleaning out decades of stuff. And seeing how things were done even 8 years ago, is blowing my mind. And I was actually working in the same line of work [different company] 8 years ago. I can see my own evolution in these workplace time capsules.

      If I stopped doing this in 2012, then came back in 2020 after taking a swerve to somewhere else…holy cow things are a different setup in so many ways. [Fun fact, they used to spend around 10k on office supplies a year and I spend less than 2 now…]

    2. blepkitty*

      Not hiring now, but in the past it’s depended on how many changes have been made since Fergus left. For example, if I knew the Gold Standard Llama Training Guidelines have changed big time in those nine years, I’d have some concerns. If not, I might weight them about the same and probe more in interviews to figure out if Wakeen knows how much of a difference there is between grooming and training, and if Fergus is going to adapt well to changes in how things are done.

    3. Animal worker*

      Fun question for me because I work in a zoo so could envision an at least similar situation in reality, probably with the species tweaked a bit :)

      So for me, it would depend on a couple of things. How much have the animal training philosophies and techniques changed over the past decade? Meaning how directly applicable is Fergus’s past experience to the current methods. This is also a really great situation for situational questions – ask both candidates how they might train a llama to go into a crate it was afraid of, or whatever. As an animal trainer I can gather a tremendous amount about someone’s training skill and philosophy from questions like this.

      I’d also look at the overall requirements of the position – how much does Wakeen’s grooming experience correlate to the llama trainer tasks and skills? Both hard and soft skills. Same for Fergus’s experience not just as a trainer but in grooming and logistics.

      In this scenario, if both seemed like they could succeed I might give the nod to Fergus because he could offer training experience + grooming experience + logistics experience, whereas Wakeen offered grooming experience. This is if other factors (personality fit for the team, etc.) were relatively even.

      There are some jobs where you want the best fit – character/personality/etc. – and you can train the skills; and there are some where the skill is both learned and innate (and in my opinion animal training is one such skill) that proven experience in it would weigh strongly to me because while I can teach anyone the basics of animal training, some people absolutely do have a more innate/intuitive ability to excel at it than others.

    4. AnotherLibrarian*

      I would put more weight on the interview. I know that sounds like a non-answer, but I would want to speak to both of them and then try to think about how they would do in the New llama Training Department (NITD). One danger of hiring Fergus might be that he thinking things in the NITD need to be run the same way as the old department and that could be an issue for the managers working in the department. One danger of hiring Wakeen is that he would need more training potentially to hit the ground running. Also, have llama training standards changed a lot in the last 9 years? These would all be things I would consider. But I would interview both, I suspect.

    5. Not All*

      If they are both current employees, any chance of them each doing a temporary detail into the position? I’m federal & one of the advantages to our slow hiring process is that people can take temporary details into a position for anywhere from a couple weeks to 120 days in a position to get experience, see if they like it, and see how they actually do in the role. Even if that isn’t the particular vacancy that they are interested in, it’s good experience & information for everyone.

      Not sure if that’s a thing that happens in the private world though.

  63. Piqued*

    How do I stop my boss from undermining my work? I work for a researcher, and part of my job is coordinating study procedures. This is an involved process involving many different people and lots of annoying logistical details. It’s basically constructing a house of cards, where any change can topple the entire structure. It’s also incredibly important. My boss understands how laborious and aggravating this process can be and frequently expresses appreciation for how well I handle it. HOWEVER. She is constantly waiting until zero hour and then asking me to reschedule these procedures, for reasons that aren’t always justified. For instance, other researchers fail to plan ahead for their own studies and then want to use spaces that we’ve reserved (and which are often booked weeks to months out). Without fail she says yes to these requests. Another time she lost her temper at someone involved in the process and canceled four separate procedures which had taken me a huge amount of time to coordinate. It’s incredibly frustrating and demoralizing to have this happen repeatedly, especially when she makes these changes without checking in with me and with blithe disregard for the impact on me and everyone else who helps with these procedures. Not to mention that our studies are set back as a result. She is a great boss in many ways but is also someone who takes “no” as a call to battle, so any pushback seems doomed to fail. But this is making me question whether I want to continue working for her. I love many aspects of my job; coordinating these procedures is one of the more aggravating parts of it, and she is making it infinitely worse! Is there a professional way to let her know how demotivating and counterproductive her behavior is, without sounding as though I’m challenging her authority or her right to make these huge changes at whim?

    1. Kathenus*

      Since this is something that has you thinking about leaving, I don’t think you have a lot to lose by approaching it somewhat directly. But knowing that she doesn’t take pushback well, phrasing it as meeting to work out a plan for how to work more efficiently together/reduce cancellations and delays, or if even that might be taken badly meeting about how you can plan things on your end to work more effectively with her plans.

      This could allow you to try to work out advance strategies on how to handle last minute requests from other researchers, conflict, whatever to minimize loss of time/space/resources. If the discussion happens as a general planning one versus focusing on past concerns, it might be received better and allow some conversation on the topic without it being directed right at her actions from the past.

    2. ..Kat..*

      Can you say “it took me X hours to set this up. With this last minute cancellation, I anticipate rescheduling by Date”?

      Can you tell her that people are reluctant to agree to these procedures with her because she cancels at the last minute frequently?

      Good luck. This sounds incredibly annoying and frustrating.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Go instance by instance and ask her how she wants you to handle things going forward so there are less last minute changes.

      On booking the spaces you could ask if you could book extra spaces so there will still be space for you if she needs to give space others. You would still have a space.

      On canceling the four separate procedures say something like, “That took x amount of time/days to set up. What would you like me to do to help avoid cancellations, again? We will lose X time because that all has to be set up again.”

      I agree with the commenter who said you have nothing to lose here and everything to gain. I know my boss was very impressed that I knew how long things took. I actually got a positive response when I started framing things to show how it was impacting our work in terms of time.

  64. Ada*

    Work trip cancelled due to coronavirus. Kinda glad – I don’t travel well and this one was going to give me no time to rest. I don’t know how people do it. I mean, my plane was going to get in around midnight (if I was lucky and there were no delays) both there and back and I still had to get to work at the usual time the next day. And both times I was flying after putting in a full day of work, to boot. I don’t have to travel for work often, so I’m curious, how do people function like that? Any tips, in case my travel gets rescheduled for a later date?

    1. Ali G*

      If I am traveling for work, then travel is my work and I do it during the work day. Sometimes that doesn’t work out, sure, but I rarely work a full day, and then travel in my “off time” (unless it’s the end of my trip and I am going home for the weekend).

      1. Ann Onny Muss*

        Agreed. If I’m travelling for work, then that is my work. I don’t work my eight hours, THEN spend the equivalent of another workday at airports/on planes. Actually, my old division tried this (and was moving in that direction again when I transferred out), and they received A LOT of pushback. The muckety-mucks just can’t fathom people don’t want to work then travel.

    2. NaoNao*

      I had to do those quick turnaround trips and I used some squeaking-by tricks:

      —Collegen shots (you can get them at Whole Foods) to get to sleep immediately upon getting to the hotel and then the recovery shot the next day —these are liquid shots not medical syringes!

      –Schedule meetings for early, and then do the routine stuff if there is any, later in the day when I’m more tired

      –Talk to your manager and ask if you can have a shorter or adjusted schedule, like a 9 to 1, and then work from the hotel room after a quick nap if possible

      1. Ada*

        Apparently. I was taking about my flight options with my manager, telling her I could either miss half a day off work while flying (I can’t work on the plane – mild vertigo=can’t read), or I could leave after work and get in around midnight, and was instructed to take the later flight so I wouldn’t miss any work. And I was flying in for an all-day event, so showing up late the next day was a no-go, too.

        1. Restless Rover*

          Just no. Next time I wouldn’t ask if I were you. Travel time is work time and it’s completely unreasonable to expect a full workday, then travel and then another full workday. My travel usually crosses the international date line (I’m usually traveling 20+ hours) and I get a full day for recovery.
          Does the company have any official travel guidelines that you can refer to?

  65. hbc*

    We had to let go of a temp this week due to lots of little things piling up. His core work was solid, but he often dodged the peripheral stuff (“you make teapots, you don’t need a secretary to fill out the paperwork when you have a bad spout”), regularly came in late despite camping in the parking lot 30 minutes before starting time, didn’t attend meetings, and was just generally a low key pain in the rear.

    But a high level engineer who worked with him at the beginning had decided Temp was awesome and Temp’s supervisor had a vendetta against Temp. Unbeknownst to me, Engineer told my boss (offsite, who Engineer has known for years) that he would quit on the spot if Temp was let go. Engineer will probably stay because he’s a very erratic person, but my boss is pissed because Engineer is working on a key project, I’m pissed because Boss didn’t pass on that info and is acting like this was preventable even though Engineer has nearly retired in a huff 3 times in the past year, and Supervisor is pissed because they can’t make a simple personnel decision without questioned about it from two levels up the org chart and down the other side again. Oh, and Engineer actually brought Temp back to get some stuff rather than leaving it to the agency, so we had a former, possibly disgruntled employee on the premises without anyone being made aware.

    I was -thisclose- to playing resignation chicken, because hey, if that’s what it takes to get your way around here…. But I’m thinking it will all die out and Engineer will pretend that it never happened until he loses it about something else.

    Fun times.

  66. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

    Vent: I love my job. I love my team. I love my management. I love my department. I love my organization as a whole. But I hate our HR team because they are trying really hard to massively screw me over on a one-time scenario (no details, it’s in Alison’s mailbox). And I hate that this one very large situation with HR, who I should pretty much never have to deal with, has me pondering how the loves and the hate (both for HR and for job hunting :P ) balance out.

    Realistically, the loves are going to win, at least for the foreseeable future, if only because I desperately hate job hunting and don’t live in Atlanta. (I was glancing through CDC openings on the USA Jobs site last night and there was a lot of very tempting openings, so that might’ve done it, but relocating is not an option at this time.) But man, my employee engagement and loyalty are taking a massive hit from this. Trying to force a re-framing to focus on the (many!) good parts and not get hung up on the one festering cesspit, but it’s hard. :P

  67. Minimal Pear*

    Hi all! I posted a bit ago about how I’m getting foot surgery and I don’t have much sick time, don’t qualify for FMLA, am dealing with a rather rude temp agency, etc. I’m moving forward with the surgery and scheduling for late April/early May. I will need to be out for a week. Once I have an exact date I’ll talk to my boss first and then the temp agency. I’d love any advice that people have on how to handle both conversations. My boss is fairly invested in seeming nice, but tends to say yes to everything and then just shrug when things end up not working out. (More with work stuff than accommodations.). The sick leave/payroll woman at the temp agency hates me. I think my boss will be pretty chill, and I have some accommodations in mind, but would love suggestions. (Especially from wheelchair users, as I will be using one for part of my recovery. I’m already disabled so I have a leg up (heh) in figuring this out, but I’m sure I’m missing stuff.) I also would love suggestions on how to approach this with the temp agency.
    I’m considering offering to work from home very very part-time for part of the week I have to be out, because that time I’ll be out is my biggest concern. However, I’m not sure if my boss will approve of my idea of how to do it, and if she doesn’t I’ll be taking a decent chunk of time unpaid. That’s what I’m worried the agency will get angry about.
    Sorry if this is scattered, dealing with a headache plus am supposed to be working.
    Thanks!

    1. Fikly*

      I’ve had 12 foot surgeries! And just got off the phone with my knee doc because my foot doc wants me non-weight bearing and I had to find out if using my knee scooter will just hurt like hell, or actually damage my currently bad knee on the same side (other options are not good options for other reasons).

      My best advice is to practice using whatever you will need to be using post-op before the surgery. If that’s a wheelchair at work, do a dry run. And use it like you will need to use it after the surgery, no cheating. That way you can find out about an problems before you are dependent on it. Practice getting to work, too!

      1. Minimal Pear*

        Thanks! I’m starting the process to get a chair next week (the knee scooter is a no-go due to unstable knee joints) and assuming things aren’t TOO slow I’m hoping I’ll have it in time for plenty of practice. My apartment, local bus system, and workplace are all pretty accessible but the sidewalk between locations is going to be rough. In fact, the crappy sidewalks in the area are how I injured my foot in the first place!

        1. Fikly*

          My wheelchair is a light-weight and extra narrow one, and if that suits your body, it is much easier to handle, and it fits a lot of places a standard one won’t.

          If you have the option to try before you select, I highly recommend taking advantage of that too. And if you haven’t used one before (I’m not clear on that from your comments) think of it like learning how to ride a bike – start in an area without a lot of things to bump into, preferably flat.

          1. Minimal Pear*

            I may not be able to go too narrow, since I have wide hips, but I’m definitely planning to go for a lightweight one. I’m going to be using this chair in the future as well, on days when my other disabilities flare up badly. I have used wheelchairs before, but generally crappy hand-me-downs or airport chairs, which means people were pushing for me. I’m hoping to try a few out, I just haven’t had a chance to do a ton of research yet to figure out where I can try them! Thanks so much for all your help. :)

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Coming at this from the other side, tell the doc that you will need to return to work as soon as possible and ask him if there are things that can be done to help your setting along.
      In the past, I have gotten a very different reaction from docs when I pointed out I had to return to work.

      1. Minimal Pear*

        I already did bring this up with her (my doctor is a woman) a bit, which is why I’m planning on a wheelchair–the usual knee scooter setup won’t work for me, and this is a way to really keep the wait off my foot for the full amount of time. She originally told me I should take two weeks completely off of work, but when she saw my facial expression, she immediately said, “Okay, at least one, and then you have to BE CAREFUL”. I’m definitely planning to ask when I next see her if there’s anything else I should be doing.

    3. Alexandra Lynch*

      In my experience of foot surgeries (and mine involved hardware in bone) the first week I was pretty much not even able to read. I slept and ate and sometimes slept through nature documentaries. (They’re ideal; you can miss the middle thirty minutes and it doesn’t matter…the lion got the gazelle, the lion didn’t get it, either way life moves along on the Serengeti….) By about six days after the surgery I could handle a little light reading, but I was still sleeping a whole lot. It took me three weeks to get to where I felt pretty fine except when I banged my cast on something. I would not have wanted to even try doing anything intellectual part time for at least two weeks.

      1. Minimal Pear*

        Ooh, thanks for letting me know–my foot surgery is less invasive and doesn’t involve hardware but I’ve been assuming I would be fine mentally by, like, the next day. (The only reasons I need to spend so much time COMPLETELY off my feet are a) she’s gonna go in through the bottom of my foot, and b) I am the queen of Complications.) I tend to be pretty functional on painkillers and probably won’t need super heavy-duty ones but in this case I think I’ll plan for a full week completely off work. Thanks for giving me this info!

  68. M*

    Could you try stockings with a garter belt? I don’t know if that would feel constricting in the same way to you.

      1. Construction Safety*

        Upthread about more formal attire, wanting to wear tights, but not wanting anything too tight around the waist.

  69. Cindy Schiffer*

    I’m frustrated with our new colleague. She’s a slacker and doesn’t pay attention to detail. With an ever-growing workload and event for new hires and partners&customers, these would be crucial.

    I’ve been annoyed with her for a while but it’s gotten to the point that her actions (or lack thereof) directly impacts my workload. I’d like to document this so I can share it with my manager. What’s the best way to do this? I’m interested in how you phrase what’s going on, what you take note of, how you present it to your boss, and also what tools do you use for your notes? L

    Is it a Word doc or just handwritten notes? A template with headers like when, what, how that effected me? I’m at a loss at how to start so my complaints show the issue and aren’t generic.

    1. Holy Moley*

      I had someone I was training for a position and ran into the same problems. It was a detail orientated position and she kept blowing off what I told her and even the SOP I made for her to help her. I worded it to my boss like this “Just want to provide some feedback regarding Jane and her work. I’ve been finding X errors Y% of the time. Here are a few examples.” Mine was copies of the work itself but I think a word doc is fine.

      In my situation, Jane became very combative about her work and then started attacking me personally. She was eventually let go because I had documented her inability to do her job. As far as how it impacts you, I would just start noting how many hours it takes away from your normal duties. Like “I’ve been spending an average of 10 hours a week on corrections/issues”.

      Hope that helps!

    2. Mme Pince*

      Personally, I would talk to my boss about general patterns of issues I was seeing before going to the length of tracking it specifically. I think that can seem like overkill before you’ve even mentioned problems.

    3. Viette*

      I had someone at my work who was so bad for workflow/efficiency/everything that I worried I wouldn’t be able to remember all the things that happened, so I downloaded a passcode-locked diary app and made short notes on my phone every time anything happened.

      I noted what happened and what its effect on me was, nothing else. Then about once a week I would go through them, make sure they still seemed like real events, and then add them to a word doc that was better organized by topic. The idea was to come up with a document where I could say to my boss, “my 3 main issues with Lourdes are X, Y, and Z. I spend about # hours a week away from my core duties dealing with the fallout from that. Here are a few of the most egregious examples of X, of Y, and of Z things that have happened in the last month. I’ve had to do things like A, B, and C to deal with them.”

      I felt a little ridiculous but it help me stay organized and it also helped me be less annoyed about things in the moment, because it felt like I was doing something.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      I agree with taking the three worst and most frequently occurring problems that impact YOU.

      I’d consider typing it if my handwriting was bad. Some days are better than others for me.
      I’d give her a short list so she can get the idea of what is going on and let her know that I would be willing to document more if necessary.
      I would just document over a few days, not months. I’d tell the boss this has been going on for a while, but I only made a short list so she could see the overall idea and she could tell me how to proceed.

      I’d go by date and then describe the incident.
      3/4/20 Xs for XYZ report missing: I had asked her on Tuesday if the Xs for the report would be ready for March 4. Jane said yes. On Wednesday, I asked her for the Xs to put into my report and she said she had not started them. My report was late because I was waiting for the Xs to be provided.

      Missed meeting: I learned that I was supposed to have attended a meeting this morning but Jane neglected to inform me. It’s uncharacteristic of me to miss meetings and I am concerned what else she may have forgotten to mention.

      3/5/20 Missing teapot lids. We had them on the floor between our desks. I needed these lids as samples. I asked her where they went and she said she had decided to give them to Bob. I asked Bob if he knew where the teapot lids were and he did not. Additionally, he said that Jane never gave them to him and he had never asked her for them. My decision on which style lid to be used will be late as we must locate the samples first. Jane does not remember who she gave them to.

      Mary called Jane regarding the spout design. Jane told me she thought it wasn’t that important so she forgot to mention it to me…. when Mary called on MONDAY…..

      3/6/20 I gave her a hard copy of the XYZ report thinking it would be easier for her to write her corrections on paper. An hour later I asked her how that was coming along and she said she had accidentally shredded the report when she set it down on the shredder to pick up the box of teapot lids. She said she found the teapot lids behind the shredder. But someone must have dropped them because the lids were broken.

      My XYZ report is still incomplete.
      I am still catching up on the info from the meeting I missed.
      Mary is angry with me.
      And the teapot lid decision is postponed for two weeks while we wait for fresh samples.

      I can’t fix this on my own.

  70. Sprinkles*

    I’m a mental health clinician working for a non profit. My agency does a mix of home visits and office visits. I am pregnant and have not told my boss yet. My issue is that I do a couple of home visits to clients who smoke in their homes (or have family members who do so) even when I am there. The smell is so thick that I have scheduled them at the end of the day so I can shower when I get home. I’ve talked to my boss about this being bad for my health (without mentioning pregnancy) and she says I must continue to meet people where they are at and that it’s beneficial to meet with them in their own home. Many of them lack transportation to come to the office. When it’s nice out, I can take a walk with my client but that does not always work. Even before the pregnancy, sitting in a home where people smoked and are smoking even when I am present cannot be good for my health. Suggestions?

      1. valentine*

        Don’t put them in your car.

        I would stop going, and would have to either not work with them at all, or only somewhere the smell didn’t affect me. If you’re going to keep doing it, wear a layer you can remove and bag as soon as you’re free and institute a no smoking rule in your presence (which will probably mean they go at it hard just prior to your arrival).

        I don’t see a business need to sacrifice your health, even if you weren’t pregnant, and you want a solution to cover you either way.

    2. Dorcas Night*

      I don’t have any specific suggestions, but please push back on this as much as you can – your boss may not have fully considered how harmful secondhand smoke is in both the short and long term. No job is worth sacrificing your health; doubly so when you’re pregnant (although I realize quitting may not be an option for you, and I hope it doesn’t come to that.) Best of luck, and congratulations on your pregnancy!

    3. Torrance*

      Would it be possible to have those clients assigned to a different clinician? I’m a client of what sounds like a similar non-profit, and in a similar situation (non-driver who receives home visits), and there are employees I can’t/don’t work with because they’re allergic to cats and I have one.

      If transferring them off your caseload isn’t an option, it sounds like you might either have to disclose earlier than you’d hoped or perhaps your doctor (either GP or OB) could help vouch that you need to be accomodated in such a way without disclosure.

  71. August*

    Anyone have any tips on influencing the way a department operates as a new-ish employee (if that’s possible at all)?
    I’ve had my state government position managing grants for 7 months now, and one thing that’s repeatedly been an issue is grantees having trouble navigating the grant application and/or management system. Which makes sense to me— it’s a really difficult and complicated program to administer! But my coworkers and direct supervisor chalk it entirely up to incompetence on the grantee’s part, and think some of the ways I’m used to working are silly (things like including a hyperlink to a manual and pointing out the relevant section instead of just emailing “check X manual”). They’re definitely open to some changes, but their focus is on creating the least amount of in-house work possible vs. making the program more accessible.

    To me, this seems like we’re doing a huge disservice to the public. Is this a legitimate issue, or am I just being naive? If it is an issue, is there any chance of making changes, or should I start assembling a detailed exit plan? I’m currently planning to leave at the ~1 year mark, for either grad school or another job, because this is a bit of a deal breaker for me. I’d like to be happy and productive while I’m here, though.

    1. Alianora*

      Hmm… government position + only planning to be there another five months makes me pessimistic about the possibility of implementing a new system. If your coworkers’ attitudes were different, I’d say there was a chance, but I wouldn’t bother at this point.

      If you have the time, you could make an FAQ page, but actually changing the application itself sounds difficult.

    2. merp*

      Ugh, that kind of attitude is so frustrating. Even if the app were the easiest thing in the world and the public were just incompetent (which I totally hear you is not the case), it’s still in a public service’s best interest to reach those people where they are! And thinking “wow these people are incompetent” is so counterproductive when your job is to help them, not to mention mean and judgmental. So I’m completely on your side of this. The changes you mention don’t even seem like they create that much extra work, so I’m side-eying your coworkers a bit on that too.

      I’m not sure I have any useful advice (try to keep doing what you’re doing? maybe see if it improves customer experience in some measurable way so you have data to prove to the others?) but you’re absolutely not being naive, this does sound like a legitimate barrier for people.

      1. August*

        Yeah, it’s really been a huge bummer. My previous job was providing this service directly to the target population, and I took this job because I thought the larger grants and higher-level work would = more impact. But all I’m seeing is funding going to those with the resources/experience to turn in a good application, and the new/little applicants get no guidance and no funding. Really demotivating.

        1. jenny*

          Without being in your line of work, that seems like a pretty significant point to me. What I said about saving time and money below is still important, but if providing grants to disadvantaged and/or smaller groups is part of your organization’s mission, I would definitely also have a few concrete examples about how, without X and Y instances of extra help, these small orgs wouldn’t be getting grants.

          Are these smaller orgs disenfranchised in some way? For instance, can you show that the smaller/struggling organizations are primarily made up of women, minorities, people with disabilities, etc., and refusing administrative assistance to them has a huge impact on their ability to secure funding? Again, I don’t know the exact context and I don’t necessarily need to, but I’m sure you can find some way to tie this problem in to your overall mission.

          1. August*

            I did ask my manager if I could make it a side project to reach out to smaller potential grantees and see if they need anything to strengthen their app or have any questions, but he said they can contact us themselves if they’re really determined to get the grant. But adding demographics is a good point! When I asked, it was more in the “but they’re so tiny, I’d like to help” way, rather than “serving X area with X population is part of the Governor’s agenda” or what have you.

            1. jenny*

              Definitely tailor your spiel as a problem that your organization is responsible for addressing, and explain how you can do it in the context of your existing duties. I am always wary when I hear “side project,” because I’m thinking about how many hours a person’s going to take doing something that I don’t have any visibility into and don’t necessarily see the need for, but if they said “As part of X duty I’d like to fold in Y, because Z objective that we have isn’t happening and here are some examples,” I’d be more persuaded. And optics are a huge part of it. I’m not saying hit your manager with “Wow, you must really hate minority-owned businesses” but saying something along the lines of “Hey, minority-owned businesses are the ones losing out because of this and the optics aren’t ideal for us as an organization” might get his attention.

            2. merp*

              I just…. cannot imagine why your manager would want to work in public service grants if they have no interest in helping someone get their grants. Outreach and assisting potential grantees was a huuuuuge part of my job when I worked in grants. But that’s a rant I’m sure you’ve thought before – sorry for preaching to the choir. I’m just so annoyed on your behalf.

              I think demonstrating that outreach like that and more “handholding” (i.e. normal amounts of assistance for a complicated gov’t grant) better support the mission and improve the demographics you’re reaching would be huge. Can you go over your manager’s head if he still rejects it? Because I have to think/hope that someone else at your agency would care about this.

              1. August*

                No no, thank you for getting annoyed on my behalf! I’m fairly new to the workforce, so I’ve been really turned around that this is the way my department operates when I thought it was going to be *exactly* like you’re describing. I was told I was hired specifically because I’ve worked in the more person-oriented part of this field, whereas my coworkers have of a more business/finance background. We’ll see how far I get with everything.

    3. jenny*

      If I were you I would have a few concrete examples of how this will actually save you time on the back end, even though it appears to be more work up front. I’m an in-house attorney and “spoon feeding” information is a big part of my job, even though there are numerous points where I could say “This is HR’s job” or “I’m not going to do this math for you” or “You should be able to find this on your own.” I can point to ways where me providing a more polished, well-rounded product (including hyperlinks, including redlines on a document instead of telling them to change it) saves me a flurry of emails and questions later down the line.

      In any event, people are usually persuaded when you can demonstrate that you are saving time and/or money. It gets much murkier when you talk about doing something for the principle of the thing, as in “We should be doing X and Y for our grantees on principle.”

      2. Fikly*

        Yes, generally when you want to convince someone to do something, the most effective way is to make it in their interest to do so. Ethics/morals are not nearly so compelling.

    4. blepkitty*

      It could be a significant issue, but have you asked them what they’ve already tried in the past? It could be that they’ve already done a variety of things and found that they haven’t made a significant difference. If you’re making suggestions without knowing what they’ve already done, it’ll come off as you thinking they’re either idiots or jerks.

      1. August*

        I’m honestly not sure if they’ve tried anything in the past — the previous program manager was a lifer who was known for screaming at his employees and grantees. Any changes were made 100% by him with no explanation or documentation. He decided X and there was no argument allowed. So now we have our current processes/documents and that’s it. My current manager is nice enough, but seems to think any issues with grantees are because we’re too nice to them and they’re taking advantage of us? Which could be correct but has not been my experience— the grantees I’ve been assigned have had issues, but nothing persistent, respectful emails haven’t been able to sort out.

        1. blepkitty*

          That’s a tough situation! It sounds like there could be a lot of burnout or leftover anxiety, and that’s hard to change without a coalition of fresh minds. It’s worth a try, though, especially if you’re planning to leave anyway.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      I am one of those stupid grantees. Our application systems are UNBELIEVABLY encumbered. As someone who works a lot, filling out an app for a grant is not doable for me in my spare time.
      If the taxpayers ever saw what they are paying for they would be appalled. It makes filling out a 1040 and it’s umpteen support forms look like a walk in the park.

      Lately a community leader has decided to gather up a list of reasons why no one is applying for grants. He wants to report it to Other People.

      Just one grant alone in random order:
      Problem #1. We had to include a percentage of minority own businesses as part of the group we would hire to fill the grant work. We are a rural area. People to cows is a 1 to 100 ratio. There are not a lot of business and even less minority own businesses. In my area failed businesses happen daily. So to compensate for this the grant mandated that we solicit every minority owned business in the STATE and offer them the work. ( This would be a paper bomb, if every community did this to a business.) I have no idea what it would cost to locate then send each company a letter.

      Problem #2. It’s a matching funds grant. This presumes there ARE FUNDS. There’s no funds.

      Problem #3. We’d front the money. Back to there are NO FUNDS.

      We found 17 other talking points that were huge hurdles. And way too long to explain here.

      The grant itself is loaded with legalese which is fine if you are a lawyer. None of us are lawyers. We had to hire a grant administrator to even read through the thing, it was that LOONG. Once the administrator read it, she told us what it said. She ended with, “this is not for you guys.”
      It was written in a way that shut off any willingness to do business with this grant. It’s a real nasty way of writing.

      And yes, we already know that people take great delight in our stupidity and like to leave us hanging without information. We are well aware. They act rude and entitled. We know.

      The rules in the grant can sometimes double the costs of the project. Maybe even triple. So a different grant was for 5k. They wanted us to do an archaeological (estimate $10k!) for a 5k grant. Unbelievable.

      But wait. We are not done! Once the grant is finished, pictures need to be taken and submitted, another equally long form needs to be completed….

      You are not naive, you are right on target. And people who have to work within the system are totally disgusted and embarrassed that these are our systems.

      In one very sad example I was chasing a particular government grant. I managed to work on for 40 hours one week, on top of going to my real job. At the end of 40 hours I STILL had not found the correct person to contact regarding the grant. I should have kept a journal of all the people I called. Each person was very nice as they told me they were the wrong person and I should call so-and-so. Total and blatant disregard for other people and for other people’s time.

      It is a huge disservice to the public and it’s an insult.
      I am sorry, you are 2000% correct.

      1. August*

        Oh maaannnn, my sympathies, that sounds terrible! I’m really struck by you mentioning that you can tell grant administrators think you’re incompetent/stupid. A big thing I’ve had to adjust to is the veiled hostility that my coworkers have when they communicate with grantees. I understand that we’re dealing with huge grants that require a lot of capacity, but I don’t consider it an insult when a grantee has a question, even if it seems like an easy one. 90% of the time I’m either dealing with a project coordinator making $23k, or a director with a million other things on their plate — the grant’s important, but it can’t be number one 100% of the time.

        This also reminds me that I’d like to make the application documents more scannable — bullet points and layman’s terms rather than big, acronym-filled paragraphs. That’s something I might be able to push for. But again, my sympathies and if you have any other general suggestions for improvement that you’ve come across in your work, I’d love to hear them!

        1. Not So NewReader*

          I could go on and on. I am going to talk about 2 different grants, A and B. A was for a municipality. B was used by a municipality to give to homeowners.
          Grant A.
          Don’t tell people they have their grant 2-3 times then call up and say, “No you don’t have the grant.” Why can’t they just wait until they are certain rather than jumping the gun? It felt like they were mocking us and our sincerity. The situation is dire and nothing to make fun of.

          Allow enough time for people to fill out the app. No, we cannot fill out the 700 page app in a week or even a month. No.

          Ask how many people are in the group writing for the grant. In my experience it’s one perhaps two people. It’s normal to work almost 24 hours straight to get the grant in on time. Rural areas are especially vulnerable to this problem.

          Don’t ask for unnecessary preliminary research. We are in one of the oldest parts of the early US. There is stuff all over the place here. We spent so much on archaeology and we are not done YET. (Tens of thousands of dollars.) Making things worse, it’s hard to get people to come because we are a “small project” and not a big money maker for them. (Yes, tens of thousands of dollars is small and not profitable to the research companies.)

          Grant B.
          Don’t load contingencies into the grant that are useless to the recipient. If building code calls for x thick beams don’t demand they use 2x in order to be in compliance with the grant. (I have many, many examples of this type of thing. It unnecessarily inflates the cost of the project and that wasted money could have been used for something else.)

          Find out how the grant is playing out in real life. Our grants here were set so that the contractor did not make any money. What happened next was the various grant recipients had problems with the work and ended up mad at my group because we were lead agency on getting the grant. But it was the limitations that were set by the grant that was causing the problem. In the end, no contractor would take our grant work and this was IN THE MIDDLE OF THE RECESSION!! that tells you how bad the pay was.

          Write in to the grant that subcontractors are not allowed or must be closely monitored. Contractors who bid on work paid by grant funds must do the work themselves. The third party’s cut of the deal is so small, that it is not worth their while. The recipient gets screwed by receiving shoddy work. The bidding contractor does not provide proper supervision to the subcontractor to make sure all agreed on points are upheld.

          Grant B was the one I was talking about that was renewed as this incredibly burdensome process that only very large municipalities with armies of grant writers could hope to comply with. We had gotten grant B three times in a row. The fourth time, the economy got better so the grants dried up. This one remained open but the process was so incredibly burdened that it screamed “F U” at the applying municipalities. I have never seen anything written like this. Ever. We knew we were being mocked. “here, juggle these sticks of fire while jumping through hoops on a unicycle.” The requirements were that strenuous. Not many entities could meet these requirements. Better to just close the grant.

          Last. Find out what people need. Our A grant has a 30 year history. We have applied and applied to no avail. People are beyond discouraged. People are broken. Our town is dying and there is no hope. Meanwhile regulators make more and more regs, meaning we are so far behind current processes it is hopeless to catch up. In the future our town will end up abandoned because there is not enough money to fix this. This town use to be a hub for the greater area, that was a long time ago.

          The problem is we need a new system X. The grants available only go to those who already have X in place and need to make upgrades. But we don’t have X in place. Sorry, I cannot be clearer here. I hope the overall point of finding out what communities actually need is clear.

          I have spent over a decade and spoken with dozens of people. I am done here. But I am also totally appalled and discouraged by how our government works. And it starts with the snobbery that you mention in the beginning of your post.

  72. Gloucesterina*

    I rather detest personality quizzes or matching ideal job-to-personality-trait-type models, but are there frameworks for describing different ways of inhabiting the world of work that feel flexible/capacious/non-judgmental/non-salesy, and helped you situate your own preferences, skills, and values?

    Put another way, for those familiar with the Strengthsfinder model – is that the best thing that you’ve encountered in this vein, or are there alternatives? I wasn’t entirely opposed to Strengthsfinder, but it felt a little too, uh, relentlessly positive for my personal taste? (Which, yes, I know is literally announced in the name of the model!)

    I enjoy my current job and am not looking to set myself up for a change, but rather get a better sense of myself in relation to my work. Thanks for any ideas for books, authors, websites/articles you can think of.

    1. eshrai*

      I took the Strengthsfinder and honestly didn’t find it very helpful at all. Probably because I am not about to pay a bunch of money to get the actual advice on what to do with the results. My agency has the books in the office, but they only give an overview of the strengths and then try and get you to buy the test so you can know what to do with the results. My agency is big on personality tests…I think I have taken like 5 while here, but we don’t do anything with the results, so its just a fun game in the end. In case you want to know my personality is the color blue, I am an ENFP and my strengths are command, adaptability, empathy, responsibility, and strategic. Lol.

    3. Constance Lloyd*

      I’ve actually trained people to use strengthsfinder, so I am not unbiased, but what I found most helpful was the description of how these strengths can also function as weaknesses. I love planning! But sometimes I use lists and over-planning as a form of procrastination because it can feel like a productive way to avoid the thing I don’t want to do. I’m not remotely competitive (competition was ranked dead last in my list of all 34) and I’m highly motivated by other people succeeding, so I have a tendency to ignore my own development fo the sake of others’. Strengths helped me identify these weaknesses in a more specific manner, which helped me frame a more specific attack plan (ie: I’m a more effective resource to other people if I give my own development more focus).

      So I really liked it, but if you already have the language to identify, frame, and work on your strengths and weaknesses strengthsfinder might not be as useful. I was working with students in higher education, so everyone was pretty much learning how they worked outside of the structured environment of high school.

    4. Alianora*

      I took it right after I started my first office job and I thought it was useful in terms of finding the words to describe my (and others’) strengths and weaknesses, especially in job interviews. For weaknesses, I just looked at the categories where I scored the lowest.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      I tried it years ago. It was not that helpful at all. I felt like I got bogged down in something when I could have actually been job hunting. Maybe they tweaked it and it is better now?

    6. When in Rome*

      I really like the enneagram. It isn’t just for work, more of a whole person thing, but really, really helpful for understanding interpersonal relationships/ways people process information. It is very honest, definitely not it’s all sunshine and rainbows type thing. “The Essential Enneagram” book is a quick read and a good place to start.

    7. San Juan Worm*

      I’m a fan of Social Styles, which is about behavior (not personality) and aligns professional motivations and weaknesses around four major styles: driver, expressive, amiable and analytical.

  73. HalloweenCat*

    I have a bit of a dilemma. For background, one of my responsibilities at work is to produce the quarterly company newsletter. When I first started here, it was very much a place for everyone to air their personal announcements and had no necessary business information at all which made it very time consuming and unpredictable since some times we would have no submissions. Over my tenure, I campaigned for the company newsletter to actually be about the company and for a few months, that’s what we did. But due to overwhelming feedback, we have gone back to the old format.
    Now to my problem: I just had a very big exciting Life Thing happen. I do not want to share it with the company at large. Anyone I like enough to tell is either friends with me on Facebook, or I have told in person. I personally don’t believe anyone should be forced to share their personal lives at work, but I’m the person who is tasked with asking for newsletter submissions. Am I honor-bound to share my news? Am I a hypocrite if I don’t? Does it matter?

    1. Rey*

      You are not required to share your news, this does not make you a hypocrite (you specifically campaigned for it to not include personal stuff). Just make sure that your request for newsletter submissions makes it clear that people are not required to participate, and you should be good to go.

      1. HalloweenCat*

        Thank you for the reassurance! I always stress that it’s voluntary! But since we rely on these submissions to fill the newsletter, I end up sending out the request email multiple times so I worry it feels mandatory. Again, I don’t WANT to do this. I have to.

        1. valentine*

          Instead of asking a second time, can you put business stuff back in, and, if they don’t like it, well, they need to give you stuff. But how much stuff is there to say, really?

          1. HalloweenCat*

            The powers that be are being very. . . particular about what business information gets put into the newsletter and have made us take out a lot. But they still want a 2 to 4 page newsletter every quarter. Hence the reliance on submissions.

            1. learnedthehardway*

              Can you do a mix of business and personal announcements? Might be the best way to get the business stuff read by employees.

              If all else fails, snap some pictures of employees doing employee things. After all, a picture takes up a thousand words… or something like that….

    2. ThatMarketingChick*

      Nope, absolutely not honor-bound to share. I actually think it’s pretty poor form to announce personal news about employees without clearing it with them first. FWIW, I manage my company’s internal announcements and while we don’t share personal news (babies, marriages, etc.) we do share professional accomplishments (new licensing, degrees, etc.) and I always give the person a chance to review and give a thumbs up.

      1. HalloweenCat*

        It’s incredible how many of my coworkers try to submit announcements about OTHER people! I always follow up with the subject to make sure they actually want to share and sometimes they don’t!

    3. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      You don’t want to share, so don’t. Would you make a coworker share in the newsletter? As long as it’s voluntary, you’re just fine in keeping it out of publication.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      No. You are not honor bound to share the news. You have been pretty clear that this is not something you are interested in personally. I seriously doubt that anyone ever expects to see anything about you in this newsletter.

  74. Environmental Compliance*

    Had my two interviews last week! One went superbly well, and I’m waiting on an offer – they basically called me the next day to ask what I need to agree to an offer. The other one was rather weird.

    It’s a new position for a growing company. Exponentially growing company. This is still in environmental compliance. I asked about the hierarchy…no clear response. Okay, are there any overarching goals for this position? Well, staying in compliance. Uh, alrighty. Compliance is a requirement, not a goal in my opinion, but hokey dokey. Anything else? Nope? There was only vague answers to duties, who reports to who, what are the company goals for EHS…. they couldn’t figure out who was actually supposed to be interviewing me when – this was for a 3+ hour interview, mind you, with me coming in out of state. It’s a cool company but I really don’t think they know what they want. Could be awesome and I could make the program my own, or it could crash and burn.

    The one that went well I’m now second guessing if I want primarily because it moved so quickly & I’m worried that I won’t be good enough (why? who knows. it’s technically an engineer role and I do not have engineer degree but it’s the same role I’m doing now with great results and this company is way less complex than where I’m at so this is just anxiety gremlins being jerks, most likely). But it’s in a totally different industry

    In other news, guess whose plant went down because we lost a critical piece of control equipment that come to find out everyone but EHS knew had problems over a month ago and no one looked at it since and now it quite literally broke in half? And guess who got the phone call after it went pbbbt to ask if the plant really needed to shut the process down, I mean, it’s just one of the main pieces of pollution control equipment and do we reeeeeeeeeallyyyy have to come down? *headdesk* Noooooo, EPA regulations are just guidelines, not regulatory requirements, sure, go ahead, so whatever you want.

    1. LabRat*

      Animal research compliance person here – fistbump of solidarity! I get SO TIRED of being the bad guy and so people just…. don’t tell us things. ARGH.

      1. Environmental Compliance*

        *fist bump back* Seriously. I do not like having to halt everything make y’all redo crap, but this is exactly why you bring me in from the beginning. I am the designated felon, thanks, so no I’m not telling you it’s okay to do something we all know isn’t okay to do, don’t even ask, buddy boo.

        I actually started including in training the difference between a civil violation/fine and a criminal violation/fine. It got the point across to most of the staff.

    2. Environmental Compliance*

      I’m trying so hard right now to care about this stack testing not going well, but at the same time I’ve been saying ad nauseum for MONTHS that the entire project is a giant clusterfuck of shitty equipment, shitty contractors, and general dipshittery and no one listened and oh look yeah we’re going to be out of time to retest HOW ABOUT THAT and oh look we’re going to be out of guaranteed spec HOW ABOUT THAT weird, that is, huh. But yes, Parent Company EHS, please, tell me more about how I should have been louder. What did you want, a feckin’ parade with a goddamn trumpet quartet? Because that’s what I would have needed to be louder. I raised it to literally everyone and their mother on a weekly feckin’ basis and none of y’all feckin’ listened. BUT WEIRD how yet again this project is absolutely even past FUBAR.

      Gah.

      I spent a good hour today packing up all important stuff that lives in my office that is mine.

  75. Orange You Glad*

    I need to share this somewhere, so please enjoy dear readers.

    I worked from home this past Wednesday and missed out on all the drama but apparently in the middle of the day one of the accounting clerks who works 1 cube row over from me (open office plan) passed out at her desk and her manager couldn’t wake her up. Ambulance was called and when EMTs picked her up her lips where blue. The EMTs started looking in her purse for medications and found heroin. She was revived and checked out but removed from the office. She hasn’t returned and her position was posted as open this morning.

    This employee has only been here since the summer and has not performed well in that time (frequently late/no shows, large dollar mistakes, having loud screaming matches on her cell phone at her desk, just a general lack of professional norms, etc). I’ve worked with poor performers before, but never quite to her extent. Now I have a better understanding of what was going on with her and how it clearly affected her work. Had one of use known her better outside work, I wonder if it would have been more obvious she had a problem.

    I hope she gets the help she needs, but I’m definitely going to file this experience away in my brain for the future.

      1. Orange You Glad*

        She did, at least as of the time she left our office. It’s a huge hot topic in our city right now, one I didn’t think I’d need to face at work.

        1. KoiFeeder*

          I’m glad she survived, and I hope she’s okay and finds the strength she needs to kick heroin. I’m sorry for her that she’s all over the news now. That’s rough, especially when she’s recovering from an overdose.

    5. AnonJ*

      I don’t enjoy this one bit and I feel sad for your colleagues who were there when this happened. I’m sure it was much scarier, traumatic even, for them than it seems to be for you. Filing this away seems like the easy thing to do, hope it works out for you.

  76. Now in the Job*

    Leaving for the honeymoon tomorrow! Caribbean cruise, here we come xD

    Got my work from home situation figured out this week, which is a woo. Forgot to update HR as to a replacement on the itinerary, will do that now. Plan with my boss is for me to email HR when I return and confirm that I will be allowed back in the office the following day. Though there have been 3 covid-19 cases confirmed nearby already, so…who even knows.

    I set up my out of office message already and for the last few days have included a line on my email that I will be out of office for two weeks. All my work is on the shared drive and organized very intuitively. Any thoughts on anything else I can do to make life easier for coworkers before I leave?

    1. Stormy Weather*

      Have fun! I’ve been on a few cruises to the Caribbean and I like it a lot. No viruses either

      Did you put the out of office time on your calendar? Does your message include, “I will have no access to phone or email?” and who to contact if there’s an issue?

      Thank’s all I can think of.

  77. InsertCleverNameHere*

    My workplace doesn’t offer sick time, just a single bucket of “paid time off” and for me, that is 11 days (I’ve been here more than 2 years, less than 3). But right now my workplace is plastered with signs reminding us to stay home if we’re sick. It’s taking every ounce of willpower I have not to deface them with things like “I’d stay home if I have sick time!” or “See my family or stay home sick? How is that a fair choice?” or even just “A missed day is missed pay because I’m out of PTO.” (We accrue it, so it’s not hard to run out).

    Also, I work in a factory, so there’s a lot of unspoken pressure on the manufacturing staff. I’m in the office, I actually am capable of working from home, but with our manufacturing staff, if you’re not there to do your thing, someone else has to be. That just makes it extra bonkers that sick time is not separated from PTO (or if we must have one bucket, at least make it bigger).

    1. Mediamaven*

      While I think 11 days isn’t very much, it’s pretty common practice to use a PTO system. You DO have paid time to take if you get sick – it’s just called PTO instead of sick time. The reason that I decided to use this system was because when I was employee I never got sick so I forfeited 5 days of sick time per year whereas some people would max out sick time every year. It felt like I was being penalized. With this system, people who don’t get sick don’t lose out on days out of the office.

      1. CheeryO*

        But presumably those people used their sick time because they were actually sick? You’re not forfeiting anything, because it’s not supposed to be a perk. I’d rather be at the office than be in bed with the flu. (Also, if you really felt that strongly, why not just take a few mental health days per year?). Unless you offer very good PTO (I’m talking 4+ weeks/year), that kind of system is awful. It just means that people will come to work sick so they can take all of their PTO as vacation days.

        1. Mediamaven*

          Well as a former employee myself, I don’t think it’s awful. It was my preference. And PTO is paid time off for being sick. And yes, I do give 20 days a year for salaried employees. So that should be plenty to be sick and have vacations.

            2. Mediamaven*

              The internet has scores of articles that show that most employees prefer the flexibility of a PTO policy – easy Google search. The employer loses more in that scenario, because it’s proven that employees take more days in a PTO system, AND they have to pay out more days if someone quits because if you categorize them as sick you don’t have to pay them out. I’m boggled that so many people are balking at a system designed to benefit employees. If I switched our program my employees would stampede!

              1. fhqwhgads*

                This may be true but I think many companies start with 10 days vacation as a base and then however many paid sick, 3, 5 whatever days. So if you’re coming from a history of 10 vacation and 5 sick, and moving to a company that just does “PTO” and they still start at 10, that’s going to feel like a “loss”. Whereas if you come from somewhere that does 10 vacation and no paid sick, it’s the same thing. I think companies that do one bucket but still use 10 days as a baseline kind of suck. It’s about more than just the bucketing or lack thereof.

      2. That'll happen*

        Right, but that means that your sick employees don’t get as much vacation time. You’re penalizing people with health problems, and encouraging people to come in sick. No one is going to be saving their PTO for when they get sick if they can use it for vacation instead.

        1. Mediamaven*

          It’s a pot of time to be used for out of office events. No one is being penalized. And it’s 20 days, so it’s plenty. The inference that a PTO system means you have no paid sick time is simply untrue.

          1. That'll happen*

            I’d call 20 days sick/vacation combined a standard amount, not plenty. At my company, non-exempt employees start with 8 days sick time (salaried get 10) and 10 days vacation. The amount of sick time stays the same year to year but vacation increases based on years of service.

            Ostensibly, yes, the PTO can be used as sick time, but since it is not designated as such, I’m not getting as much vacation as my healthier colleagues.

          2. Arielle*

            Who said a PTO system means you have no paid sick time? We’re saying the opposite – it means you have no paid vacation time if you need to save all your PTO days for sickness. It’s great that you never get sick and can use all 20 of your PTO days for vacation, but not everyone has that luxury.

            1. That'll happen*

              This is the point I was trying to make but couldn’t quite figure out how to explain!

          3. Anon for the moment*

            It punishes people who are sick more or who are chronically ill.

            It’s early March and I have already used about 5 days. With my various health conditions, it is likely I will need more until I can get my health situation under control. Luckily, I work for an employer that gives me both sick and vacation time and that allows me to carry over unused sick time. A single bucket of PTO wouldn’t be good for me.

          4. Restless Rover*

            Sorry but 20 days is not plenty. I worked in Germany and Belgium for many years and we had 30 vacation days not including holidays and sick leave. And there really isn’t a limitation on sick leave per se. Your employer pays for a certain number of days (if I recall correctly it’s simething like 75 days in Germany) and then your health insurance kicks in at 65% of your salary. I might be off a little regarding the numbers, it’s been a while but again 20 days? Plenty?

            1. Belgian*

              Yup, in Belgium you get 20 days vacation by law. Sick leave doesn’t have a cap, but if you’re out for more than 30 days in a row you are no longer paid by your employer but through social security at 65% of your pay.

      3. Arielle*

        But how does that not penalize people who do get sick? I used to work with someone who got monthly treatments for a chronic illness. If we’d had a PTO system like that, it would have meant she literally never got to take a vacation because she was guaranteed to need one sick day per month.

          1. Arielle*

            You don’t see the difference between spending 15 days on vacation and spending 15 days in the hospital? I am advocating for a system where everyone gets the same amount of vacation time (or more based on seniority, or whatever) PLUS an appropriate amount of sick time. I think the problem is that you’re seeing sick days as perks, but sick days should really be insurance. They are there if you need them but you hope you never have to take them. Some people will never take a single one and some will take all of them, and that’s okay! If we both get three weeks of vacation, and you never get sick all year, and I get the flu that takes me out of commission for two weeks, then yes, I have been out of the office for five weeks and you have been out of the office for three weeks, and I guess maybe that feels unfair to you because you’d have liked five weeks of vacation instead of three. But those two extra weeks aren’t a fun perk that you’re missing out on. I’m not sure we’re going to see eye to eye on this, though, so I will leave it there.

            1. Mediamaven*

              Its proven in your system, people get fewer days. Part of my motivation was that many people didn’t use their sick time because it was generally frowned upon in that company. We won’t see eye to eye, but it’s generally favored by employees to have a bank of days to use as needed/wanted.

          2. Fikly*

            Articles on the internet are definitely the definitive source of truth.

            Are you arguing that someone who has a chronic illness through no fault of their own does not deserve vacation time? A sick day is not a vacation. Also, vacation days almost always have to be planned in advance, so they can’t be used for an unpredictible need to be out, which is what most sick days are.

            Plus, for people who qualify for FMLA, they typically have to use all their available sick time before they can use FMLA, so if it’s all in one bucket, that means they get no vacation days at all.

            1. Mediamaven*

              I obviously didn’t say that. I’m not even talking about FMLA or even chronic illnesses. With PTO you can plan it, or you can call out sick. There are only a finite number of days that a company can give someone to be out of the office. You seem to very against a PTO policy but you are not in the norm about that. There are many many people who would like to use their days the way they want. Why don’t you do a poll on the next open thread and we can find out?

              1. Fikly*

                How do you know I’m not in the norm on that? Around a quarter of the population has some kind of disability. That’s a significant number.

                You seem to feel like sick people are getting something you are not, but I promise you, we are not having off having fun when we are out sick.

                Also, being not in the norm, or being in the minority, does not automatically make one wrong.

        2. Mediamaven*

          There are TONS of articles online that demonstrate that most employees prefer the flexibility of a PTO program and that the tend to use more time off that way – which actually makes it detrimental to the employer not the employee. Please Google it.

          2. Oxford Comma*

            Articles online is vague. Do you mean actual studies from journals? Do you mean a piece from a trade or popular magazine? Do you have citations to back this up?

      4. Fikly*

        But with a shared bucket, people who do get sick, or have people in their lives who get sick that they need to take care of, don’t get vacation. Why are healthy people more important than sick people?

        There are plenty of benefits you forefeit because you don’t qualify for them in some way. You’re not being penalized, for example, if you don’t go on maternity leave because you do not have a child.

        1. Mediamaven*

          I give my employees 20 days off, EXCLUSIVE of the holiday week and a ton of paid holidays. That should be plenty for the average person to be sick and have a vacation. I don’t not think healthier people are more important than sick people, however, life doesn’t always feel fair. One year you might get a raging flu and need to take a week off, the next you may not get sick at all. It’s also not fair when people don’t get a flu shot and send a sickness throughout the office. Also not fair, when people lie that they are sick and take the day, when others do not. My team, without exception, prefers this policy, doesn’t feel bad when they are sick and call out, and that’s my priority. My point is it is simply not accurate to say a PTO does not give you paid sick time, because that my friend, is EXACTLY, what it does.

          1. Fikly*

            How do you know your team prefers this policy? You don’t seem like someone whose employees would feel safe telling the truth to.

            1. Mediamaven*

              It’s funny you seem to think I’m a terrible person and yet I give my employees almost 40 days off a year when it’s totaled. In addition to great benefits and above industry standard pay. They actually feel very lucky. And I know because the tell me.

              1. Fikly*

                Well, you have the attitude of people with health issues are less important than people who do not have health problems, so yes, that reflects badly on you.

                Also, the idea that people you have power over only tell you the truth is just ridiculous.

          2. Lynn*

            This fall I spent time caring for my father when he got gravely ill. Then he passed and we had his funeral to deal with. In your company, I would not be allowed any additional time off to grieve/recover/recoup as I’d used it all. In my employment, I have separate sick/vacation/bereavement time so that I was able to take some time off after the reality of life came roaring back and I actually needed it once I started to process what I’d been through. I truly saved me from burning out.

            1. Mediamaven*

              False. We also give bereavement leave separately. I’m very sorry about your dad.

    2. InsertCleverNameHere*

      I mean, if I got 20 days a year this would be a different conversation, but I get 11. That’s not adequate, and having worked under both systems, I definitely prefer separate buckets for all the reasons people have cited, namely, that it’s not fair to employees who have a bad health year (or a bad health life) But I’d be mollified with a bigger bucket as well. I’m an hourly employee so I show up to work regardless of how unwell I am. If they don’t want me there they can send me home, and that at least means I get paid for 3 hours of time and only have to use 5 hours of PTO to make up my 8 hour day. Also, I’m currently looking for a new job and every single recruiter I’ve spoken to is floored at this Scrooge-level policy – it is NOT normal for my industry or my geographic area (large major city).

      1. Mediamaven*

        I agree with you that 11 is terrible. So I think it’s the amount, not the policy, that’s a problem.

  78. Entry-level Marcus*

    So, I want get more involved in my community and volunteer. The problem is, I don’t know how to find volunteer opportunities! I don’t think I’ve volunteered for something since high school.

    I’ve tried looking a bit, but most of what I’ve found is things like canvassing, fundraising, things that require interacting with a ton of members of the general public, or helping out with large events. Those are important, but I don’t think my introverted and awkward self is a good fit for those kinds of opportunities. That said, I still want to do things that get me out of the house and allow me to meet people in my local community and make a difference locally.

    Any advice?

    1. Dust Bunny*

      What kind of things DO you want to do? Animal shelter? Local library? Nonprofit for XYZ cause? One of them might need dogs walked or books shelved or mailing lists updated or whatever. My dad does data entry for a regional animal rescue.

      1. Entry-level Marcus*

        I’m kinda interested in getting involved in certain political causes at the local level via an activist group or nonprofit or local political candidate, but I want a way to do so that doesn’t involve large group activities like canvassing or protesting (which is he’s the volunteer positions on their websites always are for).

        1. Retail not Retail*

          Show up at their local office with food and ask if they have any data or event logistics or whatever volunteer needs.

          I volunteered in 2016 and loved canvassing and we loved the people who supported us with food!

    2. jenny*

      I would look at churches and places of worship. Often you can find activities that are sponsored by these places that are “religious adjacent” but aren’t inherently religious. I personally helped write a grant for my church. There’s also a local food pantry run by the church, and I know of a mosque that distributes meals to local homeless people once a month. Also check out Habitat For Humanity and local animal shelters.

    3. littlelizard*

      A lot of places won’t have specific volunteer “positions” with a defined role, but will have lots of different volunteering opportunities. Look for causes you’re interested in and if they have a “volunteer with us” page that is pretty vague, shoot them an email and see what they say.

    4. irene adler*

      Volunteer for a professional organization in your industry or in an industry you are interested in working in.

      The volunteer activities would be things like serving as an officer for the chapter (secretary, treasurer, membership chair, etc.) where there’s more solitary or small group activities. Also where you can help find volunteers who WILL do the majority of the interacting with people. That gives you an avenue to meet as many- or as few-fellow members as you are comfortable with meeting.

      Might try Meetup.com and see what groups are close to your area. Some are small groups (8-15 people) who meet for dinner or to walk (or hike) at a local venue.
      Might see if there are volunteer opportunities through your city. Some have committees that meet to work on issues affecting the public. Those require small group interaction. A co-worker is on a city committee that evaluates the city’s response to different types of emergencies.

    5. Threeve*

      That’s great! I would start with identifying the nonprofits or community orgs you would want to volunteer with.

      They don’t all post on Volunteer Match or Idealist, but they often have work for people who reach out to them.

    6. E*

      I think the key is to find a specific organization you are passionate about in your area and then talk to the volunteer coordinator. While canvassing may be the most obvious and largest need if you have a specific skill set that is useful behind the scenes I am sure many volunteer organizations would work to find a place for you. That being said, some organizations have more volunteers than they may need immediately and so you might have to “work your way up” to a position like this by canvassingand becoming a known part of the organization before they would offer a more behind-the-scenes or coveted volunteer role.

    7. Leslie Nope*

      In my area there’s a local website where you can look for organizations that need volunteers. There’s all kinds of stuff on there for animal shelters, libraries, religious organizations, etc. Hopefully there’s something like that in your area, maybe you just haven’t stumbled across it yet.

    8. AvonLady Barksdale*

      VolunteerMatch dot org! You can select the types of opportunities you’re looking for and they will send you alerts when opportunities come up that match your preferences. I found a volunteer job that was basically stuffing envelopes and doing some data entry– I think I searched for “office help” or similar. I used to go to their offices for a couple of hours at a time and help out, and while I also helped out with their big annual event, it certainly wasn’t required.

    9. Adara*

      Do you have Meals on Wheels near you? I heard they’re always looking for volunteers to either put the meals together or deliver them door to door.

    10. Koala dreams*

      You can look for organizations with causes you support and ask them about volunteer opportunities. You can also mention a few tasks and ask if they have something similar. In some places there are local websites or Facebook groups that advertise volunteer positions, the advertisements can give you ideas too.

    11. Fikly*

      In another lifetime, I volunteered for a political campaign. I too would not have been comfortable doing all the people interacting. Turned out they needed someone to help crunch data, and I loved that!

      I don’t know where you live, but I googled my area and volunteer and found several websites compiling local places you can volunteer at.

    12. InsertCleverNameHere*

      There’s a wonderful resource – go to idealist.org

      Tons of volunteer opportunities listed there!

    13. Princesa Zelda*

      I volunteered at a small food bank for a couple years and it was just about perfect for me. I worked in the warehouse part and had exactly the amount of contact with the public that I wanted to have — some days I was just boxing vegetables, no talkie! and some days I was directly giving people their food or accepting donations. Since it was a pretty small place, I also became default IT (I don’t know a darn thing about computers, but I know how to google) and I felt close with the other regular volunteers and the community we served. If that’s your kind of jam, googling “food banks near me” and then calling/emailing to see if their days/environment/etc work for you might be good.

      You can also ask around and see if anyone in your work or social groups know of any interesting opportunities— that’s how I acquired my last several volunteer positions, some of them with orgs I didn’t know existed until the initial connection.

  79. drivesmenuts*

    I have recently moved into a management role and while most of it has been good and I feel comfortable with it, I have had some issues and have cried at work A LOT! This is so embarrassing! My crying comes when I feel like my actions have caused someone to think I am not smart or I am not doing the correct thing. On one hand, I am very good a managing my team and getting stuff done quickly and effectively. On the other hand, I am new to management and have received very little help that I didn’t have to specifically beg for. This has left me set up for feelings of absolute failure when something I thought I had under control wound up being not right. I am working on giving myself some grace to make mistakes, and not listening to haters. The haters seem to be the same people each time so I do want to work on understanding what exactly they are expecting and also work on not letting them get me riled up.

    1. Leslie Nope*

      You said it yourself – give yourself grace to make mistakes.

      Although, it does sound like you have some Negative Nancys on your team. Alison has tons of good advice on here about responding to weird comments, such as “What makes you say that?” I think you can use some of that type of language with your team to get to the bottom of what’s going on. Haters gonna hate, but I feel like there’s got to be a way for you to make them feel like being negative just for the sake of being negative isn’t going to reward them.

      And if you need to cry to work out some of that stress, go have a good cry! (in private…) YOU’VE GOT THIS!

    2. Middle Manager*

      Just sharing some sympathy. My first year of being a manager was SO HARD. I came home and cried a lot. Huge bump up in expectations, not a lot of support or training, new situations all the time. It’s a lot. If you can hang in there, it does get easier though. Don’t let a few people drag you down. Pay attention to issues and actively seek out solutions to them, but don’t let that become everything, also pay attention to what’s going well.

  80. LookingAgain*

    Follow up on candidacy status or no? TL;DR: 4 interviews including 2 onsite, met a total of 10 people. Being ghosted. 6 weeks since last interview. Too late to follow up again?

    I was a candidate for a role that began back in mid-November last year. For the first couple phone interviews, they were pretty aggressive about call backs, without a lot of time in between interview & next one being set up. I had an onsite interview in early December, all good, this was with boss & grandboss. Then came Christmas / NYE, and apparently they do a holiday shutdown, so there was a break of like 3 weeks with nothing (but at least they told me there’d be that delay).

    So early January, they set up the final round, which I had the last week of January, this was with the internal peers & stakeholders. The (internal) recruiter told me to expect a delay “of a couple weeks” afterwards, because they had to finish up their interviews, but that all my feedback had been great so far. I haven’t heard a single peep since then. I think it’s been 5 or 6 weeks since that interview. I sent a follow up “hey what’s the timeframe” email to the recruiting coordinator around week 3, and he didn’t respond.

    Would you reach out again? To whom? Hiring manager (I have his email – he was responsive to my first “follow up / ty” email), or the recruiting coordinator? I wouldn’t even know what to say after this much time. Oh the job is still posted, by the way.

    1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      I suggest reaching out to both the hiring manager and the recruiting coordinator in one email, once again asking about their time frame. Then, dropping it entirely and moving on with your job search.

  81. Rene*

    I have a question about work events that are labelled as team building exercises or morale boosting. I understand that the expectation is that people who choose not to go are typically expected to work as normal on those days. But, what about people who have a disability that prevents them from attending the events? It seems a bit unfair to penalize people who aren’t able to participate by having them work as usual. What are your thoughts?

    1. eshrai*

      I don’t think the company should have team building activities during work time that are not inclusive of all the team. Disabilities of team members should be taken into account when planning team events. That seems like a no brainier to me. I would speak to management about planning future events to be more inclusive.

      2. Rene*

        I actually brought that up to my leader. His suggestion was that I could attend the event, but not participate. The events are things like rockclimbing or axe-throwing. I explained that it would be really uncomfortable for me to do that since it would probably draw attention my disability (which is probably not otherwise apparent to people) and it’s not something I’m comfortable discussing with people.

        1. Arielle*

          Ugh, no advice but I really sympathize. I once went to an after-work event that I thought would be “a range of activities including bowling” and turned out to be Mandatory Bowling. I really didn’t want to bowl because a) I don’t particularly care for bowling and b) I was hoping to sneak out early. Every. single. person. asked why I wasn’t bowling and it wasn’t even for a delicate or awkward reason!

    1. jenny*

      I take “workplace frustration” to mean that nobody’s perfect, and you need to factor that in. Someone may occasionally be grouchy at you. IT may not respond as quickly as you want. A document may get misplaced. There may not be money in the budget for the good coffee you want. To me, legitimate concerns are any sort of illegal behavior, and/or any sort of systemic behavior that costs time, money, could get the company in trouble, or seriously dampens morale.

      Your boss forgets your birthday one time? Not a big deal. Your boss always ignores your birthday, but makes it a point to take everyone else out to lunch and brings in cake and a card? More of a big deal.

      Human Resources sits on a document subpoena and doesn’t pass it to Legal until after the deadline? Someone needs a serious talking to, but not a big deal. Human Resources constantly ignores subpoenas and barely remembers to pass them on to Legal? Legitimate concern. Alternatively, Human Resources gets one call from the FBI about an ongoing investigation and doesn’t pass up that message to Legal? Huge, legitimate concern.

  83. Can’t think of name*

    Anyone with experience as an Enrolled Agent? Why did you choose to get that certification?

    I currently work for a Certified Public Accountant who asked if I was interested in obtaining the Enrolled Agent certification and start preparing taxes next year. Currently I bookkeeping for his clients but not tax returns.

  84. Conflicted*

    A few weeks ago I asked questions about my term-to-perm contract job, which was nearing its end date. To sum up, I felt that the job was not a good fit, that I was a mediocre performer, and that I was sure the company wouldn’t offer me a permanent spot.

    Well, I had a review with my manager this week and … She offered a permanent spot for me. Apparently she thought I was a good performer, although she did acknowledge that I had a rough start.

    This … Has thrown a wrench into my plans. I was all ready to move on, but now I’m having second thoughts.

    Reasons to leave:
    1. I have a very long, exhausting commute, to the point that most of the time, at weekends, I don’t even have the energy for my hobbies. I feel like I live to work.
    2. When I think about doing this job for another month, it fills me with dread and makes me want to cry a little.
    3. This job is not related to my career goals, and I’m worried that the more time I spend here, the more I’ll back myself into a corner.

    Reasons to stay:
    1. Money is nice to have
    2. I don’t have another job lined up. My savings can cover up to 5 months, if I’m really careful, but what if 5 months pass and I still haven’t found another job?
    3. I live in an area moderately impacted by coronavirus, and I’m worried about its impact to our economy, especially about shortage of jobs.
    4. I do have a tendency to underestimate myself. Past teachers and professors called me out on this, and my therapist agreed with them. I feel like I can’t trust my own judgement.

    If anyone can give advice, I’d be grateful.

    1. littlelizard*

      Are you job searching at all? If you still have some time before your temp end date, look around a bit. You don’t have to commit to leaving, but it might help your thinking to know what’s out there. If you dread going to work, it’s a good idea to keep up with other options. And long commutes are terrible :/

      1. Conflicted*

        Oh, I do! I’ve been searching since last December, and so far only got three phone interviews that went nowhere. Two of them because I had reservation about the companies, and one because they needed someone immediately.

    2. LookingAgain*

      This is a tough one! I say that as someone who 1) had a 6 month job search a year ago, and 2) accepted a FTE role after a contractor gig, knowing it wasn’t quite the right fit. After about 6 months in the full time role, I’m job searching again because I’m miserable. (The new job is for a different manager than the old job, so I didn’t know quite how bad it was going to be working for this guy.)

      If I had to do it over again though … I’m not sure I would have made a different choice. I mean in a perfect world, money grows on trees and whatnot, and we don’t *need* jobs. But like I said, I had come off a long exhausting job search, and just didn’t have it in me to go back out there.

      All that being said, any chance you can extend the contract role a bit? If not, will you have the energy to keep searching after you accepted the full time position, if you needed or wanted to?

      1. Conflicted*

        will you have the energy to keep searching after you accepted the full time position, if you needed or wanted to?

        I’m already full time, just still under a contract. I have little energy to job searching, so far only on Sundays, and a few hours max at that.

        Good luck with your job search!

    3. That'll happen*

      I’d take the job, specifically for reason #2 that you mention. A job search can easily take 6 months or more and, right or wrong, it is more difficult to get hired when you’re unemployed.

      As to the other issue, if you don’t trust your own judgment, how about the judgment of others? Do you respect your manager? How would they benefit from lying to you about your skills? This may not work for you but this is a way that I try to combat my low self-esteem – if a trusted friend/respected colleague or boss is saying something positive about me, I try to trust that. Good luck with your choice!

      1. Conflicted*

        Thanks! I know it’s harder to get hired when you’re employed, but OTOH, it seems that companies expect you to be available for interviews all the time.

        How would they benefit from lying to you about your skills?
        Well, they don’t have to go through the hassle of hitting another employee, for one.

    5. Buns of Cinnamon*

      First off, bravo for having that much savings. That’s great! I hope you don’t need it.

      I would keep looking, but not quit while the Covid19 is still affecting the economy. Job searches can take a lot longer than five months.

      I hate that you want to cry about staying. You said something very telling that you might be able to use to your advantage. You feel like you’re living to work. Can you work with your therapist about reframing that thought to change to work to live? I really wish someone had told me much earlier than my career that leaving my job at the office and not have it consume me is one of the healthiest actions I could ever take.

      1. Conflicted*

        Thank you! Being obsessed with saving my salary certainly helps.

        It’s pretty difficult to reframe that thought, because the fact is that on weekdays, I literally only go home to sleep. I don’t have time or energy to watch TV, go out, or any other fun stuff.

    6. InsertCleverNameHere*

      Ahh…..tough spot!!!

      1. I have a very long, exhausting commute, to the point that most of the time, at weekends, I don’t even have the energy for my hobbies. I feel like I live to work.
      2. When I think about doing this job for another month, it fills me with dread and makes me want to cry a little.
      3. This job is not related to my career goals, and I’m worried that the more time I spend here, the more I’ll back myself into a corner.

      So, these are ALL reasons to go and none of them really out weigh reasons to stay.

      1. Money is nice to have – No argument there.
      2. I don’t have another job lined up. My savings can cover up to 5 months, if I’m really careful, but what if 5 months pass and I still haven’t found another job? – Can you work something like retail? Then you have SOME money, even if you have to draw on some savings, but you also have a job that’s easy to quit when you find a new one. And since your current contact isn’t related to your career goals, from a resume standpoint, is it any better than retail? (Might be).
      3. I live in an area moderately impacted by coronavirus, and I’m worried about its impact to our economy, especially about shortage of jobs. – I mean, no one really knows, but we’re not in a recession so I would say that’s a bigger factor than the virus.
      4. I do have a tendency to underestimate myself. Past teachers and professors called me out on this, and my therapist agreed with them. I feel like I can’t trust my own judgement. – Have you talked to your therapist about this dillema? The fact is, even if you were the best employee at this job they’ve ever seen, that doesn’t outweigh the 3 reasons you want to quit, *especially* the part where this isn’t aligned with your career goals.

      I’ve been in your shoes, and it gave me terrible, terrible depression. But I HAD to stay in the job until I had a new one lined up ($0 savings and unemployed spouse), which took a full year. So – you can do it, I believe in you! But if you can find a path to quit sooner rather than later, I think you’ll find your mental health will be better sooner rather than later.

      1. Conflicted*

        Thank you! I’m glad to know that I’m not alone and that it’s possible things will get better.

        And since your current contact isn’t related to your career goals, from a resume standpoint, is it any better than retail?
        It’s very slightly related, but more importantly, it’s an office job with relatively transferable skills. I accepted the job mainly because I thought it’d give me basic skills needed.

        1. InsertCleverNameHere*

          I feel for you. I think you need to focus on quitting sooner rather than later. That doesn’t mean quit right now, but it also means you could accept the full time job and quit soon after, unless there is some sort of circumstance preventing that (a contract or some other legally binding circumstance). You have to know your own options and the job market but I think part of the focus here is how can you improve your job search so that you can move on to something more directly career related?

          Here are some things I did to help me through job hell:
          Took my full one hour lunch and left the office, even if it was just to sit in my car. Taking a break helped me.

          Planned one thing each weekend to look forward to, even it was just a new recipe for dinner or a long phone call to a friend. I had disengaged from my hobbies completely, too, but even just going out to a movie helped me feel like I was doing more than living to work.

          Applied to at least one job every week. It was hard to stay motivated but making a low commitment kept me going even when I wanted to quit and the I had the feeling of accomplishment of “yes, I met my goal”

          Made Sunday night sacred “prep time.”. 5pm to 9pm was a trip to the grocery store, change the cat box, take out garbage, tidy up the apartment, prepare a few meals, do laundry…..just really be ready for the week ahead. Having a plan meant it didn’t matter if I was a lump in a log the rest of the weekend, I had my Sunday night prep time.

          Therapy once every two weeks. You sound like you already are, so that’s good, but if for some reason you’re not, consider going back if you have the means.

  85. Free Meercats*

    Interesting COVID development here, center of the US infection nexus. Since we do field work in small teams (in my group, usually 2), we are all required to have first aid/CPR/AED training every 24 months. Lots of us are coming up due, but all classes have been canceled for the duration.

    So we’ll be working without the required certification, but we can’t get the certification. Can’t stop the work, the entire department is considered essential. This could get interesting during our next audit.

    1. Ali G*

      In my former line of work we had certifications we had to maintain but the classes weren’t held until they filled. We could show that we had signed up for the class and that was considered conforming during audits. Otherwise I would just suggest you keep a copy of whatever notification that the classes were canceled and document why no one could get recert.

    2. Name Witheld, USA*

      In my area, there are small private companies that do first aid/CPR/AED training. One of the ways they stay in business is that they charge a lot more than the “normal” companies that do first aid/CPR/AED training, but they are a lot more flexible in where and when they do classes. Anything like that in your area?

    3. anon24*

      Do you need the civilian/bystander certification or the healthcare provider certification? (I’m not clear if you are in healthcare or not). The Red Cross allows you to renew a civilian certification completely online if you already have a Red Cross certification. I’m not sure about the AHA. I think it’s a little sketchy myself and it would be a lot more expensive than the company just paying for one instructor to come in, but if they are worried about compliance it’s an option.

    4. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      Can you all do the online portion and keep waiting for the class portions to open up?

      That way you’re at least in the process of it? Still the auditing is going go to eat a face or two but they can show you are doing due diligence in some way?

      Thankfully the couple we need redone are up in June when this should be behind us.

  86. WorkingGirl*

    So… quick rant/vent

    I’m applying for jobs. I found one at a HUGE, household name company, the position is a PERFECT fit for my interests and skill level so I applied!

    Someone I’m acquainted with over social media has done freelance work for this company (in the department I’m applying to). I wouldn’t say we’re “friends” but we have a ton of mutual connections/friends AND I regularly comment on his posts about his freelance work. We even have a mutual freelance company on our resume though we didn’t overlap (I basically just missed him, but a lot of our mutuals are other freelancers).

    I reached out over social media asking if they knew who was in charge of hiring for this position or who I might talk to. They didn’t answer, which I expected – they’re busy and don’t owe me anything (though of course it would’ve been nice if they had!).

    But then I go on Twitter (we follow each other)…. and this person has subtweeted me! It was pretty harsh… like, saying how dare I “have the audacity to ask for favors” when I “don’t acknowledge his existence” (not even true… I do!) and that he’s “100% ignoring me on purpose.” No identifying details that it was me but it came a few minutes after my message was marked as “seen” on FB.

    Like… what??? Sue me for asking… I wasn’t pushy or rude in my message and I never demanded a response. Was I ONLY allowed to even consider asking if I’d been BFFs with him and cheerleading EVERY SINGLE THING he did for the past ten years? Jeez. Maybe some people wouldn’t have asked if they weren’t good friends with someone, but like… why blast me on the internet? Also, FWIW this guy lives across the country with his kids so I don’t believe he’s planning to apply to the position- so it’s not like I’m “competition.”

    We’re in a competitive industry, yeah, but I feel like that Tweet was soooo unnecessary! I get plenty of people reaching out asking for contact info and advice… usually I help them (because it doesn’t hurt me to help someone else!) but if it’s someone I don’t want to help then I just ignore the message or reply saying I’m unable to help.

    1. littlelizard*

      That’s extremely obnoxious, wow. Who vaguetweets over super normal networking actions??

      1. WorkingGirl*

        This guy, apparently!

        Look, he’s a freelancer so it’s not like he’s going to harm my chances there or even go as far as to actually badmouth me… but wtf? Like I said SUPER massive company and I know I’m qualified for the position but would’ve been nice to have direct contact with someone to hopefully stick out from the massive piles of applications.

    2. Leslie Nope*

      Ooof. That was snarky and totally unnecessary. He seems really immature, and if I were in your position I would probably unfollow him and forget it. He’s not willing to help you, so now you know. He seems like an ass.

      I hope you get an interview. Good luck!

      1. WorkingGirl*

        I muted him and I think I might unfollow, yeah.

        Thank you! I’ve applied for a lot of related positions but this one honestly seems the most tailored to me. Anddddd it’s in the city I want to (and could hopefully AFFORD to) move to!!!

      1. WorkingGirl*

        Pretty sure. It came RIGHT after he read my message- and this guy isn’t super active on Twitter.

    4. inoffensive nickname*

      Even with extenuating circumstances, there’s no way you can be absolutely sure that tweet was directed at or about you. I wouldn’t take it so personally. You have no idea what else he has going on in his life right now.

      1. WorkingGirl*

        I mean, it came right after my message was “seen.”

        And frankly no matter what’s going on in your profile, what’s the excuse for being immature/rude on the internet like that? Like subtweeting isn’t going to solve anything

    5. learnedthehardway*

      I suppose you could reply and ask whether he meant to comment on your request. I would say that his comment surprised you, as you have followed him on X social media platform and commented on his posts for the past Y years. Might be better to do this in a private message, though. I wouldn’t apologize, because you did nothing that should be apologized for, but it wouldn’t hurt to set the record straight.

      That said, unless he was super clear that it wasn’t you and that he welcomes your comments / requests, I wouldn’t contact him again.

    6. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      He was so extra!

      But just to shine a little light of sympathy for him here, just a little. When you work for Household Name Companies you have a lot of people asking you for these kinds of favors. Many don’t care or will just ignore it, but this could have been one of those bad days that it tipped his hand in the angry subtweeting direction. Still, he’s immature to say the least!

      But we have a lot of folks around here who can tell you stories about the people chasing them down to try to get “in” at Big AF Company!

      1. WorkingGirl*

        I mean I figure that’s what it is. The thing is I’ve been there too- I have had PLENTY of people I don’t know super well reach out to me about “XYZ entertainment company” or “123 nonprofit” and like… yeah maybe I vent privately to a friend but I’d never post publicly like that. I TOTALLY get the frustration but subtweeting is just immature!

      2. Lisa*

        What The Man, Becky Lynch said. It’s exhausting. “Oh you work at ___, do you know my neighbor?” I have done the math and approximately 1% of my pretty-big city is currently an employee of that company. Plus probably that much again, in contractors. And we have only one of several huge locations in the US alone. So getting odd referral requests from my dad’s client’s wife, or someone I talked to at an event once, did get strange.

        That said, after that I worked for ONE year at a hip local startup, and I got way much more of this kind of thing then. I think it was a numbers game. With only relatively few people working there, there was a much better chance that I would know the hiring manager and that the person looking for info would know me. However, I also noticed the dynamic changed then. People were offering to take me to coffee or even lunch, either for an informational interview or to help out. And usually they were a lot more appreciative and I felt a lot more useful.

    7. Anonnington*

      Dude! Unfriend/unfollow! Then go forth and enjoy a good career because you’re not hindered by that kind of pettiness. Seriously, if that’s how he reacts to something like that, imagine how he handles the bigger stresses of life. It must be hard for him.

    8. They Don’t Make Sunday*

      Too much time has passed, but if I were you I would have favorited the tweet right when I saw it. No reply, no second email, nothing. Just an innocuous dumb heart. An “I see you” with so much plausible deniability he’ll think twice before doing something like this again.

  87. Elie A.*

    So my husband and I, who have lead student study abroad programs for nearly a decade (we are professors), launched our own tour company a month ago, organizing and leading small-group tours on niche topics…

    And all I can think about is the coronavirus. I have problems with anxiety anyway, and oh man, this situation is not helping. Our first trip won’t be until January 2021, but still.

    This is a side job–we are still both teaching–but we put a lot of hard work and prep and research into our new company and it is just so hard to stop myself from ABSOLUTELY FREAKING OUT.

    If anyone has calming advice for an aging anxiety and/or dealing with this situation, I’d love to hear it.

    2. Third or Nothing!*

      I struggle with anxiety too. What helps me is writing down everything I think could possibly go wrong and then creating a realistic plan for each scenario. This 1) helps me get the thoughts out of my head, and 2) helps me work through what’s really a potential problem and what is my anxiety lying to me.

      Breathing techniques help too, as does listening to calming music. Exercise is good, too – helps get out all that excess energy that builds up when you’re starting to panic. Even better if you can do it outside where you can focus on the beauty of nature instead of your own ruminating thoughts.

  88. Elliot*

    Hi! I have a question for anyone reading who’s in the public health field. I’m 15, going into college in the fall, and I’ve wanted to go into public health (specifically field epidemiology and outbreak research/containment) since I found out it existed. I read in a bunch of places that I’ll have to get a medical degree, along with a master’s in public health. Nothing I’ve read has been consistent, though. What are the best things to learn and study in school to get into public health? So far I’m planning on taking a bunch of bio classes and statistics, and I read that learning to code is helpful too. What do y’all think I should do?

    1. Gidget*

      Not an epidemiologist but I know a lot of disease ecologists. It sounds like you are starting in a good place. I would look into summer programs for high school students at various research institutes. I think what would be most helpful for you is meeting a real field epidemiologist and talking to them about their path. They could probably give you the most insight.

      Biology, statistics, and coding are a must. I would also recommend looking into GIS courses. I think it is helpful to think about what you want to do specifically. There are many epidemiologists with PhDs, MDs, and MD/PhDs. They come to it from a lot of different paths. Most epidemiology programs are graduate programs so it is important to do well during college. You could try during or after college to get an internship or post-baccalaureate positions at someplace like the CDC or NIH which may help you with your graduate application.

      I know you are young, but looking into schools of epidemiology can give you an idea of the expectations they have for students entering the schools. They may also be able to direct you to organizations or programs that highlight these fields for high school students. For example https://www.sph.emory.edu/departments/epi/index.html

      Good luck. I think talking one-on-one with a real field epidemiologist and starting that mentorship relationship will be the most valuable thing you can do right now. I hope some of this info was helpful.

      1. Gidget*

        And to add. I see that you are entering college, however I mentioned looking for high school programs because given your age you may not be eligible for other programs.

        1. Elliot*

          Yeah, I’m not even old enough to work in most labs. I’ll check out the programs, thanks!

      2. Elliot*

        Thank you! I guess I’ll have to tell my dad (he’s a computer engineer) that he was right about coding…sigh. Specifically, I want to do infectious disease outbreak control, especially zoonoses and tropical diseases. I’ll definitely try to find an actual epidemiologist to talk to. Thanks again!

      3. Fikly*

        Seconding the advice to look at the admissions requirements for the eventual degrees you might want (and you can find out what degrees you might want by looking at job postings for jobs you are interested in, as this doesn’t tend to change that rapidly).

        The admissions requirements will change a bit by the time you get to that point, but not a lot, and you’ll get a good idea of what most programs require, and although most schools will have one or two unique requirements, I wouldn’t focus on those right now.

    2. DAMitsDevon*

      Hi, I have a masters in public health, though admittedly not in epidemiology. Now that public health is becoming a more popular field on its own, there are more people going directly into public health (and either getting a masters or doctorate) without also going to medical school. So if you want to focus more on research rather than being a medical practitioner with a public health background, that’s something to take into account.

      In terms of what to study, I would say your idea of focusing on bio classes and statistics is good, especially if you want to get into a epidemiology program specifically. Pretty much everyone applying for an MPH program will need to have taken at least a few bio and stats classes, and having a few extra under your belt will look good. However, my classmates in grad school all came from a variety of academic backgrounds, so if you want to major in say Sociology in college while also taking some stats classes, go for it!

      And I would say a thing you’ll want to focus on outside of classes is getting some practical experience. So part time research assistant jobs, volunteering or getting a part time job at a community health center, etc.

      1. Elliot*

        Okay, not having to go to med school is encouraging—it’s a lot of school for someone who doesn’t even want to practice medicine. I love bio and stats, so I’ll definitely be taking those classes! Also, I really like sociology, and I feel like it’s very applicable to public health, so I’ll take classes in it too. I’ll look for practical experience jobs as soon as I’m 16 and can legally work in a lab (I’m so excited! It sounds so cool!) Thanks!

      2. LabRat*

        Yup! My sister got an MPH after a BS in Microbiology, she works as an epidemiologist for a state dept of health now.

    3. TR*

      I have an MPH and PhD in Epidemiology and have worked at the local, state, and federal level. You absolutely do not need an MD to work as a field epidemiologist. There are some public health jobs that require it, but they are a minority and I would say most field epidemiologists are Master level.

      If you plan to get an MPH in Epidemiology, I would focus undergrad on biology/physiology and chemistry. These are very relevant to an epidemiologist, but aren’t covered in depth during the MPH program. Stats and coding are definitely a good idea too. Really any health care related experience will help you in the field. I draw on my veterinary tech experience all the time.

      It is a good idea to try to get some kind of practical experience just to make sure you enjoy the realities of the field, though there will be a lot of variation depending on the position and where you are. You could start with your local county health department. One thing about outbreak investigation is that there are long stretches of routine (sometimes boring) work punctuated by high adrenaline, stressful times.

      I’ll just add that from what I can tell, most people don’t even learn about epidemiology until much later in their education path. A lot of people seem to stumble into it from somewhere else. So don’t feel too much pressure to take some specific path and try to follow your interests. There are so many ways to be successful in Epidemiology.

    4. Mrs. Badcrumble, MSPH*

      Public health is a great field! I have an MSPH in biostatistics, myself, but I did start in the epidemiology program. You do not need a medical degree, although you will encounter a lot of people on your program is are trying to get into medical school and are either beefing up their med school application, killing time before applying to med school again, or, depending on the school, pursuing a dual degree (MD/MPH).

      You will want to make sure that you choose a school that is an accredited public health school. There are institutions that offer MPH degrees which are only general and don’t offer the rigor of a traditional public health school. Generally speaking, you should find a school which has multiple departments such as epidemiology, biostatistics, health management/policy, occupational, environmental, or community health, global health, and/or tropical medicine. Check the APHA (American Public Health Association) for more info.

      You may also want to consider pursuing an additional practical degree as well, like med school or nursing, or doing a combined Peace Corps/public health program (my school offered that). If nothing else, it seems like it would be really useful in the field. (Though I can’t speak to that myself, I’ve always been in an office.)

      And start learning how to code in R now. Since it’s a free and open source software, it’s really ideal for use in underserved areas, plus it has amazing flexibility to develop useful tools (like app for tracking outbreaks). Regardless of what field you end up in, you’ll have a marketable skill right out of the gate, and there are tons of free courses and information online.

      Good luck!

  89. Thimby*

    Any job hunting advice for a new grad registered nurse? I’m graduating in December and nursing will be a second career for me.

    1. Blueberry*

      They Want You. We need nurses. Don’t let yourself be shortchanged by any employers.
      (Sorry, this is vague. But hopefully encouraging!)

    2. Dust Bunny*

      Not a nurse but have multiple friends in healthcare and recently had to convince my dad to tell his friend-from-another-country that he absolutely could not come here in person and talk his way into a job for his daughter.

      They all tell me to go directly to the source: Most hospitals have a “careers” tag on their websites with the usual form, etc., to fill out. I think it’s pretty standard AAM–apply as the institution wants you to apply and don’t try to be too creative, at least at first.

    3. Pieismyreligion*

      Get to know the nurse managers where uoire doing clinical rotations, either to use as a reference and/or for networking.
      Yes there is a need for RNs but in my experience, and those of my former classmates, there is still a lot of hesitancy around hiring new grads. So have someone look at your resume and learn to write good cover letters. And be open to starting in a role that may not be your first choice, because it truly is a field where any experience is good experience.
      Signed, Another second career RN

  90. Heart Momma*

    I’m on paid parental leave and I want to quit my job without burning bridges. I had been undecided about coming back to work but I think I’m leaning towards quitting. I have a baby with a congenital heart defect and they will have corrective surgery around August – November (they prefer to operate on larger hearts, but will move up surgery if oxygen levels are no longer stable). My job has been super supportive throughout my tenure there and especially during the pregnancy, so I feel guilty for stepping away. However, my baby is in the high-risk category for complications if she gets a respiratory infection (flu, RSV and especially the coronavirus, etc). Her heart defect already impacts her oxygen levels, and if she got hit with any respiratory infection she would be hospitalized and would have a higher risk of complications. As a result, I don’t feel comfortable putting her in daycare, and I would be expected back at work in late April. I use to freelance, so I’m thinking about just freelancing again and would even offer to freelance back to my employer part-time. But I’m not sure when or how to break the news, should I set up an in-person meeting, a phone call, write an email? Even still, what should I say, short and sweet or lots of details? Should I emphasize that I didn’t plan to take advantage of the paid leave just to ghost and leave them hanging? Thoughts? Advice?

    1. Nita*

      Sorry you’re dealing with this, and wishing your LO a smooth surgery and great health! I’d probably lay out your reasons for quitting, and offer to freelance at the same time. Not remotely the same thing, but my oldest kid had some feeding and gross motor issues, and I asked to extend my leave to work on these things with him. I told my boss why I was asking, and that this was naturally not something I’d anticipated when I planned to be back at work earlier. I also had a plan ready to work from home. It wasn’t the greatest idea because putting in 40 hours a week with a baby and limited child care is insane, but sounds like you’re planning something that will take up much less of your time. My boss was very supportive. Hopefully yours will be also.

    2. Arielle*

      I get why you’re feeling guilty but really they would have to be absolute monsters to hear “My baby is medically fragile and can’t go to daycare” and be anything but sympathetic.

      1. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

        I agree – this is a situation where you’re better off being honest and open (as much as you feel comfortable). I wonder if it would be an option for you to consider keeping your job (perhaps on a PT basis) if you could work from home? It of course depends on your work and whether you’d earn enough to get a nanny/babysitter/mother’s helper during your working hours, but if you want to keep the job and they want to keep you they might be open to that. It’s definitely something to bring up as part of the transition conversation!

        Best wishes to you and your LO for a bright future!

    3. not that Leia*

      I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. Hope everything goes well. Any reasonable employer will 100% understand. And honestly, they’d most likely understand even without the medical issues. I ended up resigning from my job while on maternity leave, too–not because of anything in particular, but just because my priorities radically recalibrated once the baby was actually there. I agonized about it (I was really worried that I’d have to pay back benefits, etc.) but EVERYONE was totally supportive.
      I would recommend an in person meeting, though. (Provided that your workplace and colleagues are comfortable/understanding about possible emotion. My experience is that difficult decisions + post partum hormones can be an unpredictable beast.)

      1. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

        Oh the benefits piece is another piece to navigate as part of the conversation – many (most?) companies have a clause that you have to pay back your benefits for the months you were on leave if you don’t come back, but any reasonable company will make an exception if you’re not coming back for a medical necessity.

    4. Lucette Kensack*

      Do you actually want to quit? Or, if you could snap your fingers and get exactly what you want, would you rather come back to this job after the surgery/whenever it feels safe to put your child in daycare? Or another solution (work part-time, etc.)?

      If you are certain you want to leave, I’d request a meeting with your direct manager (phone or in-person, whatever works best for your situation). How much to share depends on your relationship with your manager, — either short and sweet (“I wanted to let you know that I’ve decided to resign. I so appreciate the support that Company has offered me; this is what is right for me and my family.”) or more details. Personally, I’d share a lot of detail, but that’s just a reflection of my personality and the relationships I have with my manager and other colleagues (and the culture of my organization). One key note: I’d plan on them ending your employment immediately; if you’re not coming back at all to handle any transition, why would they keep paying your parental leave?

      But if you’re open to other solutions, ask for a meeting to talk through your options.

    5. Sharbe*

      Please don’t feel guilt over leaving. You didn’t plan on this happening, you didn’t “take advantage” of paid leave, and if you work for normal, well-adjusted, non-psychopaths, you aren’t going to be any burning bridges. People will understand your situation.

    6. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      A fragile infant is the exact situation, you’d expect someone to take care of their first priority, their infant over coming back to work!

      The reason you feel guilt is because you’re already in a stressed out situation on top of having a good work ethic. Your employer will not take this personally, unless as noted above they are absolute monsters.

      Your child is being treated for very serious things right now, life trumps all work situations ever.

    7. Fikly*

      So, in the US, a year post-giving birth, around 50% of women are not employed at the same company. Some are not working at all, some are working elsewhere, etc. Which is to say, this is super common, you have an incredibly valid reason, and if this burns a bridge, it’s not you burning the bridge, it’s your employer revealing themselves to be terrible.

      Also, you aren’t taking advantage of the leave! You earned that benefit with the work you did before you went on leave. You don’t have to pay them back for it by working after.

    8. Alex*

      I think any non-sociopathic boss would completely understand, no matter how you present it to them.

    9. Heart Momma*

      Thanks everyone for the great advice. And Tina Belcher’s Less Cool Sister, I think I’ll start with exploring work options because I carry insurance through my employer because it is more affordable (and better coverage) than my husband’s. I have to be at least 75% FTE (Full-Time Employee) to keep benefits, so if I could do that (work 30 hours) and work from home, that would be ideal. I’ll try to set up a phone call. I work at a university as well, and I saw some emails come through today around coronavirus polices, so that helps too, that the university has an interest in protecting everyone on campus. If I can’t work out a situation that is best for our family then I’ll resign. Though, I may need to think through getting some help during the day, I’ll take the weekend to think through logistics.

      1. blackcat*

        What type of childcare will you have while working from home? I did the part time nanny while working from home while on “leave” (had a baby in grad school, couldn’t get into a daycare right away). By the time our daycare slot opened up, the kid was 6 months and it was harder and harder to have him at home while I worked. I basically *had* to work at a coffee shop. It was a combination of him being loud + knowing I was in the house and missing me that made it really hard.
        I do know some folks who have made work from home with a nanny in the house work, but it’s hard. Easier if you can sequester on a different floor of the house. And while it may seem reasonable now to work more hours than you have childcare because the baby sleeps all the time, that will change! I did that, too, and OMG IT WAS SO BAD.

        1. blackcat*

          Oh, also, when I went back on leave and pushed back my defense because my kid needed surgery and extra care (not nearly as serious as a heart condition, everyone was INCREDIBLY understanding.
          “My infant is medically fragile and I can’t leave them” is very understandable to any vaguely compassionate human.

  91. Manon*

    I’d appreciate some input on whether folks think this manager has too close a relationship with her direct reports.

    Jane, a manager, has become friends with Jill, her direct report, and Lisa, who is also a coordinator but reports to a different manager. They follow each other on social media, have gone to sporting events together, and helped Jane move. They don’t appear to be BFFs, but it’s clear that Jane is much closer to Jill than to her other direct report.

    My sense from this website is that managers and their employees shouldn’t be this friendly, but it seems so innocuous. I guess I’m having trouble distinguishing if this is Too Much and a Big Deal or is a normal work friendship.

    1. Mediamaven*

      I think it’s unhealthy for the workplace. We’ve had a couple of high level managers (vps) who became way too friendly with very entry level people, hanging out on weekends etc… It was very strange because of the level/title dynamic. I also had a boss at one time who would curl up every morning in his office with with my peer and coffee and sit and gossip and chat while I was working. It didn’t make me feel good at all and eventually resulted in my leaving.

      1. Oh No She Di'int*

        “I also had a boss at one time who would curl up every morning in his office with with my peer and coffee and sit and gossip and chat while I was working.”

        Eww. Nope.

        1. Mediamaven*

          Yes exactly. It very very much was. He also had at least two relationships with young female employees soooo.

    2. Oh No She Di'int*

      It definitely sounds questionable to me. But out of curiosity, do you have a stake in this?

      1. Manon*

        Nope! I’m a part time employee (started as an intern last summer) and am just trying to calibrate my sense of workplace norms. I don’t plan to act on any advice given here.

    3. Campfire Raccoon*

      Ehh. It depends.

      Most of the time I’d find this really weird – but sometimes you just find your tribe?

      So long as it isn’t interfering with Jane’s ability to manage, and isn’t causing friction with her other reports, I’m inclined to shrug it off and wish them well.

      1. Oh No She Di'int*

        I get this, but the problem is that it often won’t cause “friction” with other reports. It’s more likely to lead to simmering resentment. Or not. You just never know. That’s why one has to be extra careful in this situation.

      2. Fikly*

        I don’t think it’s possible for it not to interfere with Jane’s ability to manage. A lot of bias is unconscious.

        1. Campfire Raccoon*

          You’re probably right. A misguided attempt at optimism.

          My other thought on this (which I didn’t add earlier because I wasn’t sure if it was indicative of my own still-lingering and thus not-yet-resolved internalized misogyny) was that these sort of friendships tend to burn hot and fast. Once over – Jane’s got a whole other pile of management problems that revolve around hurt feelings and walking on eggshells.

          I want to be optimistic (Yay! tribe!) when really I expect a friendsplosion. What is Jane going to do when Lisa’s kid likes Jane’s kid, and they exclude Jill’s kid? Or when Lisa’s husband was supposed to dogsit for Jane, but the dog escaped? Or Jill prefers one-on-one time with Jane, and excludes Lisa from online invites?

          In my heart of hearts, I think they’d be lucky to squeak by with simmering resentment.

    4. Ann Onny Muss*

      This doesn’t seem good. I had a manager and colleague at my first job with my current company whose relationship was more parent-child than manager-employee. Manager let Employee get away with too much, including assigning work, reprimanding colleagues, meetings with upper management. Even as new as I was to the professional workforce, I knew that shit wasn’t right. Employee ended up, and I ended up transferring (which was a good move for my career). I’ve heard from former colleagues that Manager was much better to work with after Employee left.

    5. WellRed*

      I’m going to say the moving part is the strangest. Has anyone in the history of do it yourself moves ever helped someone who was not a close pal move? No. (Not counting crisis situations).

  92. Name Witheld, USA*

    Hi all,
    How about a Workplace COVID-19 Preparedness Thread?
    1) What country/region do you live in?
    2) Is your workplace actively assessing risk to employees and operations due to COVID-19?
    3)What is your workplace doing to prepare for COVID-19, if anything?

    1. Elie A.*

      I work at a university in the Midwest. The chancellor has daily emails sent out with updates about the coronavirus (basically just still reassuring people there are no cases here). Also, a tub of sanitizing wipes showed up on the table at the front of my classroom today. :-)

    2. Ali G*

      DC area
      We just had our first cases in the region this week. My company has been great. Everyone is approved to work at home as needed. Stay home if you are sick (yes we have good sick time), wash your hands, etc. We have a huge bottle of sanitizer when you walk in, and other strategic places. We are currently assessing a policy on work travel.
      The thing I am worried most about is this conference I am planning for next month…

    3. Holly*

      I have a chronic illness (multiple in fact) and the pain and other symptoms affect my mobility. The company has a policy of working from home 1 day a week. Some managers allow their teams to work remotely as often as they like. My manager allowed me the flexibility to work from home whenever I needed, which was several days a week. My quantity and quality of work were great and never negatively affected because of working from home. That manager has since left and the new manager will not allow me to work from home more than 1 day a week. Since the change in management I’ve done my best to get into the office but can’t do it 4 days a week as they minimally require. They emailed me about the working from home issue and had me reply with “I understand ” which I think is their version of a formal reprimand that they will use as documentation with the intent to fire me soon. My manager scheduled a meeting with her, HR and myself for Monday. I plan to point out my great work record and the fact that I have Intermittent FMLA set up in the event that my symptoms won’t let me work. I feel like I should also be prepared with info from the Americans with Disabilities Act about “reasonable accommodation” and remind then that for the past couple years they have been making the accommodation but are only now deciding to revoke it. Any advice? Anything I should be weary of bringing up? I don’t want to get a lawyer, but I’m not going to just lay down and let them fire me because of an illness that I can’t change that has not affected my ability to actually DO the work, only WHERE I do the work.

    4. Holly*

      Here in Wisconsin, our glibal company sends 2 emails per week with an update basically stating the travel restrictions to/from mainland China that they have in place, reminding people to not come in sick, and the put up hand sanitizer stands around the office.

    5. Amtelope*

      North Carolina here. We have hand sanitizer dispensers up, and are asking everyone to stay home if they’re sick, with usual work from home policies (1 day a week) relaxed. I suspect we may be asked to work from home for an extended period of time if we have more cases in the Triangle, so I’m making sure everyone has access to the files and software they’d need if nobody was in the office.

    6. Jaid*

      1) East Coast metropolitan city
      2) Internal homepage suggests that a “senior team” is being assembled to monitor the virus and coordinate efforts at prevention, etc.
      3) Currently at “STAY HOME IF YOU’RE SICK, MORONS” stage, like with the flu. And “CLEAN YOUR DESKS YOU FILTHY ANIMALS”. The usual.

    8. Grace*

      UK – main office London, satellite office in a reasonably large city. Total staff fewer than a hundred.

      Everyone’s been asked individually about where they’ve been on holiday and the same for any housemates/partners/people you spend a great deal of time with; a few people have just finished their two-week self-isolation period due to being in Italy etc a couple of weeks ago. We can pretty much all work from home with no problems, so we’re being encouraged to WFH if we have even the slightest hint of illness – something we could already do before with no problems, but now it’s actively pushed – and people are getting daily reminders to take their laptops home every night so that they can WFH if they wake up feeling ill. Work-provided hand sanitiser, obviously, and so on.

      My city has had one case so far, but if it starts racking up, I’ll probably try to WFH rather than taking public transport to work. I’m healthy enough and will probably be fine, but it’ll be a hassle to self-isolate when I live with three other people, and I have coworkers who live with immuno-compromised people.

    9. Anonnington*

      I am self-employed in NYC. I’m staying home and avoiding public transit as much as I can. I’m not in a high risk group, but if I got it, I could spread it to other people, and I don’t want to do that.

    10. Princesa Zelda*

      Arizona!
      Last week, I posted that my City hadn’t done much. Now, however, we’ve had some communication from the City Librarian, and we’ve removed all toys/soft things from our play areas and storytimes. We’ve also started wiping down the keyboards and headphones on the Public PCs when not in use, and on our own keyboards/general desk area, wayyy more often. It used to just a couple times a day at most, now it’s like, once an hour at the very least. Practically the entire staff wear glasses so we keep catching ourselves touching our eyes/nose/general glasses area; it’s been a real bonding experience.

      I’m still worried about my sick time situation, because if I catch another cold this season I’m going to be pressured to take sick time, but I can’t afford to. I have 2 days banked right now, and I need to keep them for days when my migraines make it impossible to come in; it takes 8 weeks to accrue a single day, since I get them at a rate of 1 hour every 30 hours worked. My really bad migraines average out about once every 2/3 months. If I catch an illness from a patron and I have to get tested for coronavirus, I’m very worried about how I’ll make ends meet if I have to miss a day of work to take care of that, or worse, if I catch it and am quarantined, how on Earth I’m going to make rent. You can’t telework the service desk.

    11. Restless Rover*

      South Korea – Non essential personnel is on admin leave, some people are working from home and my team and I are one day on, one day off to reduce the exposure. Things have significantly slowed down.

    12. Mimmy*

      I work at a state-run training facility for people with disabilities in New Jersey. It has a residential component.

      There are a couple of cases of COVID-19 in NJ but I don’t think they are anywhere near us. I’m more concerned about New York because people travel there every day from New Jersey. I am glad to hear that the transit agencies are stepping up disinfection procedures.

      At my job, we’ve gotten emails from the state acknowledging the virus and giving the usual advice for preventing infection and that they are monitoring things closely. Our director did admit that we are at higher risk because a lot of people come through our building. He’s actually leaving but I’m hopeful that our acting director (my wonderful supervisor) will consult with the appropriate people and take appropriate steps if needed.

      I’m also nervous about getting the virus. I don’t think I’m high-risk (my husband thinks I am because I have diabetes but it’s mild) so I don’t think it’ll make me critically ill. However, there are plenty of high-risk people among our students and staff, and I don’t want to be the cause of any imposed quarantine measures at my job :(

    13. Tiny Town, OK*

      1) Tiny Town, SE Oklahoma
      2) Our workplace hasn’t mentioned COVID-19.
      3) If one person at our factory gets COVID-19, it’ll spread like wildfire. Missing two days of work results in probation, so people come to work sick. I am a very healthy 63, but hubby is 70 and has COPD, congestive heart failure, and diabetes, all high-risk factors for COVID-19 complications. We live at the edge of nowhere, so I’ve told him if it comes close to us he’ll be quarantined on our property.

      1. Tiny Town, OK*

        Forgot to mention, our factory employs about 200 people and is the only major employer within 15 miles of our town.

  93. Captain Raymond Holt*

    I do vendor management for my company and reviewed a vendor last summer. I liked the vendor, but our company decided not to move forward with the project for which we used the vendor so we did not purchase their product. In the interim, I’ve changed my first name (from “Captain Holt” to “C. Raymond Holt”) and submitted an application for a job with that vendor using the new name and related email address. In my application I mentioned that I had considered them as a vendor and was impressed with the product. I got no response to my job application, but several persistent follow ups from sales people addressed to “Captain.”

    I was close to calling them out for it (“hmmm, seems interesting that you want to talk now.”) but ended up politely replying that we were not moving forward with the project for which we needed their product (and therefore would not be buying). Would it have been appropriate to call them out on it? Or to use it as a method of following up on my application? With the name change, they definitely had to do some work to make the connection. Is it just me, or does this feel fishy?

    1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      I’m a little lost here.

      Your current company stopped using a vendor. And you put in an application to them to work there?

      You’re not hearing back from their hiring team but you’re hearing from their sales rep trying to get you to continue to buy from them?

      Your vendor management role with Current Company is not at all connected with your application to work for them as an employee. Are you applying to work in sales? Why would the sales folks have any idea about your application? That is most likely handled by a different set of hands! I wouldn’t take it personally or think it’s shady. Unless they’re extremely small. They’re not crossing streams here and that’s a good choice!

      But if they’re trying to get their vendor status put back into place, that’s the account rep’s position not someone who would be regularly hiring. It’s a whole different kettle of fish.

      I do think it’s weird that they’re using your name despite it being changed though!

  94. EnfysNest*

    TLDR Version: My boss joked in front of my very literal coworker that lawyers won’t pick intelligent people for a jury the day before I was in fact chosen to serve on a jury.

    Full version: Earlier this week, I was scheduled for jury duty. I’d given my boss and coworkers plenty of heads up and mentioned that I had no idea how long I might be out if I was selected to actually serve for a trial. As I was covering final details before leaving the day before, my boss jokingly waved off the chance of me being there more than one day, saying “Oh, don’t worry – the lawyers don’t want anyone who’s smart on the jury.”

    In addition to this already being a very negative assumption about the process, he said it in front of a coworker of mine whose sense of humor really doesn’t mesh with anyone else in the office. This coworker will make “jokes” that aren’t funny and can be downright rude, often doesn’t pick up on others’ humor or sarcasm, will repeat his own jokes over and over and over, etc. In this situation, my coworker immediately responded to our boss’ comment about the lawyers with a very serious “Really? Why not?” And instead of clarifying that it was a joke, my boss doubled down, saying “They really just want people who will accept what they’re told. They don’t want anyone to think too hard about things.” I tried to interject that I’m sure there’s a lot more that goes into the decisions than just that and we’ll just have to see how the day goes. As I packed my things up, my coworker continued the conversation, now saying “well, I guess we’ll see you pretty soon, then, since you should get sent home early because they don’t want smart people.” [These are all paraphrases, of course, I don’t remember the exact wording, but that’s the general idea.]

    Well, sure enough, I was selected to serve on a jury for a trial. [During the voir dire selection process, there were so many people from the jury pool making ridiculously biased statements (everything from “Having a trial for this specific charge seems like a waste of time.” to “Yes, the state would only charge someone if they definitely did something wrong.” to “Well, my husband did the same thing as the defendant is charged with for years without being caught or having any problems, so I don’t think this is a big deal.”) that I was kind of shocked they were able to get 6 people who weren’t blatantly biased right from the start, ignoring anything else about our individual qualities.]

    I had a lurking worry all day that I was going to have to defend myself to my coworker that me being selected had nothing to do with intelligence if he brought it up. I’m the only woman in my department and I’ve already had to find ways out of this coworker trying to “instruct me” out of the blue on things like getting my oil changed and the stock market and housing market and lots of other things that I never asked about and do not need his help understanding, so having my boss say something to my coworker that might make him think of me as less intelligent is absolutely not something I want happening.

    Thankfully, my coworker seemed to have either forgotten my boss’ comments by the time I came back two days later or at least didn’t mention the conversation again, but I’m still frustrated that my boss said that to him at all and didn’t immediately clarify that he was joking. Honestly, this has been an ongoing issue with both my current boss and his predecessor that they don’t shut this coworker down right away when their jokes get out of hand or when they are saying something that comes across as rude, nor do/did they clarify when they were joking if the coworker didn’t realize it immediately. In fact, they’ll often joke with him or escalate things in a way that seems to me half like they’re playing along with him and half like they’re almost goading him along for their own entertainment.

    My coworker is really frustrating, and he rubs lots of people the wrong way and his rude jokes are putting him in a really poor light. But my boss – the one person who can and should be coaching him to be more professional – often seems like he is encouraging this bad behavior, rather than making any attempt to nip it in the bud. It’s possible, of course, that they’re having 1-on-1 coaching that I’m not aware of, but at least when others are around, my boss doesn’t do as much as I feel like he could to contain my coworker’s comments and attitudes and it’s causing a lot of uncomfortable situations like this.

    I’m not sure if I really have a question here, because I really don’t see any way to go to my boss and say “Hey, can you stop joking with Coworker and stop letting him make rude ‘jokes’?” But it’s just really wearing on me and I feel like I’m always on edge just waiting for the next incident with this coworker to crop up.

    1. Havarti*

      Yikes. So this is really about your coworker being awful and your boss allowing it. Why can’t you mention something to your boss about this? Will he just brush it off? I mean, at some point you have to ask yourself: if nothing changes with this situation, how long am I willing to put up with it (a.k.a. the Sheelzebub Principle)? 1 month? 1 year? 5 years? 10 years? From there, you decide your actions, whether it’s you stay and learn to tune out/ignore this dumpster fire so you can continue collecting a paycheck or you plan your exit.

      1. irene adler*

        Yep. This is about all you can do -unless you can find a way to get boss to see that he’s encouraging boorish behavior from co-worker. Which can only have a negative impact on the employees who must witness this behavior.

        But what do I know? I’ve been a juror 4 times. And found the experience to be a positive affirming of my belief that when people put aside personal agendas and work together, they truly can accomplish something.

    2. learnedthehardway*

      It sounds to me like you have a coworker who is overly literal, socially awkward, and not aware of the “unwritten social rules”. I would treat him the way you would deal with a colleague who is on the autism spectrum. I’m not saying that he IS on the spectrum, but those characteristics are classic for people on the spectrum, and so I would be very direct and clear in my communications with him, point out when the boss is joking and he doesn’t understand it, tell him when you know things that he’s explaining to you, tell him when a joke is rude and why, etc. If he IS on the spectrum – whether he knows it or not – he will appreciate the social direction. (If he’s not, then he should be called on it, anyway).

      With your manager, it DOES sound like he’s twigged to the fact that your coworker is socially struggling, and is having “fun” with it. This is bad management and unkind of him, if that’s the case.

    3. Marthooh*

      This coworker will make “jokes” that aren’t funny and can be downright rude, often doesn’t pick up on others’ humor or sarcasm, will repeat his own jokes over and over and over, etc.

      This sounds so frustrating! If you try to address it with your boss, though, I wouldn’t say anything about his jury duty joke, though, since that’s actually beside the point. Just point out that allowing (and even encouraging) one employee to be obnoxious has a terrible effect on everyone else’s morale.

  95. Mid*

    I know this has been brought up in the past, but how do you deal with depression while working?

    I love my job, and it’s in no way part of my depressive episode. I’m getting help for the depression, but I’ve had episodes every year for like 13 years now, so its going to continue to happen.

    How do you keep functioning at work when you’re a zombie inside? What are some good ways to not drop balls?

    1. Student Affairs Sally*

      Lots and lots of lists! Also, if you’re comfortable doing this, it might help to give your supervisor a head’s up that you’re dealing with some personal challenges that may impact your focus for a little while, just so they have some context for any balls that do get dropped. Hang in there *hugs*

      1. Mid*

        Thanks. Unfortunately, dropped balls just aren’t okay, because there is minimal overlap and coverage for things. If I’m not doing it, it doesn’t get done. I feel really overwhelmed at my job right now, and it’s partially my mental health, and partially that we’re at a really busy time in the work load. I’ve already talked with my supervisor about adjusting certain things and taking one major time-suck task off my plate, which should help. I was hoping to be all caught up this week, now that I’m not spending a lot of time on that project, but I was out sick for 3 of 5 days, so now I’m even further behind. And my other coworker is out sick often, so I’ve been doing a lot of her work, which was fine, until it wasn’t.

        But, I’m also wasting a lot of time each day at work, just doing nothing. I can’t motivate myself to even start to tackle the mountain of work because it seems pointless and I’m tired and don’t care about anything. I have more than enough hours in the day to do all my work, with time to spare, but I’m just…not doing it. And I’m going to get fired if I keep doing this.

        Basically, my depression brain has turned me into a hopeless, whiny, apathetic blob and it’s frustrating. I’ve dealt with depression for years, but always as a student, or someone who wasn’t working a 9 to 5 and wasn’t important to the functioning of my workplace, so I can’t just retreat into my depression shell for a few days to get over it. I guess I’m learning that I lot of my coping strategies for managing my depression aren’t transitioning well to my new life.

        I’m sorry, apparently I mostly needed to vent about all of this.

        1. littlelizard*

          It sounds like it’s a good time to redouble treatment plans? I’m sorry if this is obvious, but since it’s not mentioned in either comment: it might be time to go back to therapy, get a new medication, etc. I switched medications a while ago because I didn’t like mine, and the new one basically did nothing but make me nauseous for months. Work got a lot worse. I switched again recently and it’s like night and day…

          1. That'll happen*

            I agree with this! I’d also look into applying for intermittent FMLA if your providers feel it will help. At the very least it would give you some job protection.

            1. Mid*

              I haven’t been at my job long enough for that—and I’m not sure how much it would help me at the moment. I was off sick for two days and I feel like being stuck at home made everything that much worse.

          2. Mid*

            Thank you. I’ve been on the same medication for years now, and while it was working for a long time, now it’s making me nauseous and I think it’s less effective than before. I’ve been putting off switching meds because I don’t have a psychiatrist right now, but I think this is the kick in the pants I need to actually do what I need to do and talk to someone about this.

        2. AnotherLibrarian*

          It’s okay. You can vent. Captain Awkward had an amazing post, I wish I could find, about managing work when depressed. She has actually a lot on this.

          Basically, here’s what I do- I set a timer on my phone for 25 minutes and I do whatever task I have been putting off/need to do for 25 minutes. If I am too depressed to do 25 minutes, than I do 15 minutes. I just keep doing this through the workday until I have completed tasks.

          I also make a list and cross things off once they are done and identify the critical vs uncritical tasks. My other rule- only 2 or 3 critical tasks a day. Otherwise- everything is critical and you will go nuts.

          Lastly, and this is central- if you’re not currently adding in more treatment (as littlelizard mentions) than you might want to consider that too.

          1. Mid*

            Thank you. I found a lot of good stuff on CA and I think that between looping in my supervisor a bit more, cleaning up my desk, and breaking things down into 15 minute chunks, I can slowly chip away at things.

  96. Student Affairs Sally*

    I’m interested in people’s thoughts about taking a mental health day in the midst of the Coronavirus fears. My employer provides TONS of sick time (in lieu of providing paid parental leave), and it rolls over every year, so after nearly 4 years I have way more than I could realistically ever use. I have of course used it from time to time for actual illness, but I don’t get sick much so more often I will take a mental health day every 4-6 months. About 60% of the time, this is a genuine mental health day (I struggle with depression and anxiety), and the other 40% it’s more of a “I don’t really feel like going to work today and I don’t have anything urgent that needs to be completed today”. When it’s the latter, I’m always careful to do it when it would have minimal impact on my work or my colleagues. For some additional context, I’m really unhappy in my current position and have been actively job searching for a few months.

    Because of several things going on in my life right now, I would like to take a mental health day in the next couple of weeks, which would kinda be equal parts of both of the “types” I described above. My boss is very supportive of a healthy work-life balance and her staff using our sick time whenever we need it (she isn’t the reason I want to leave), so when I take a day I usually just say I’m not feeling well and that’s the end of it. However, with everyone being so anxious about COVID-19 right now, I worry that I will be subject to more questions about what my symptoms are or why I’m needing the day. I work on a college campus with a lot of international students, so I think the anxiety level is probably even higher than in the general population right now. Even if people didn’t have questions about whether I could potentially be infected with COVID-19, I’m worried that my colleagues or students I work with would wonder or worry that that’s why I’m out. I do have vacation time that I could use, but I get unused vacation paid out when I leave the university but not unused sick time, so I’d rather not use that.

    Any thoughts about this? Would taking a mental health day right now be terribly unethical, or even just bad in a optics sense?

    1. Name Witheld, USA*

      Take the mental health day as a sick day and don’t worry about it. You aren’t feeling well, that’s the end of it. If people start asking weird questions about your symptoms, say “stomach issues.” IME people don’t ask more questions, because we all know what it’s like to have your stomach act up and have to run to the toilet…

    2. Kimmy Schmidt*

      I don’t think it’s unethical at all. People will need to take sick time for appointments and other illnesses even during an outbreak. You might want to have a standard “nothing to worry about, no fever and not contagious” cheerful answer ready to go in case anyone asks, but I don’t know if you’ll have to use it.

    3. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      There is nothing unethical about taking a mental health day. I don’t care if it’s amid a pandemic crisis or not. You are important too. This isn’t about the rest of the world, this is about your needs in the end.

    4. Anon for this*

      I’m taking a mental health day today, actually! I was a little worried for the same reason, but my colleagues know that I had a run-in with an aggressive client this week and the fall out has been stressful so everyone knows why I’m “under the weather” today. It’s probably a bit different for you, but maybe you can deputize some of your close co-workers to give a vague, non covid answer if people are asking.

  97. NewbieMD*

    Y’all, I apologize for the store shelves being empty of sanitizer, wipes, alcohol, etc. From the looks of my mom’s linen closet, I think she pretty much cleared out the rest of the country.

    1. Third or Nothing!*

      Can she send me some? My toddler dumped all of mine. I managed to find some at Bath and Body Works but oh man their stuff ruins my poor sensitive hands.

    2. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      Go skim some, throw it in your trunk and do some rounds to sell them to pay off those medical school bills you probably still have ;)

  98. Jules the First*

    Trying to get a better handle on how I’m using my time (both at work and not at work). I’ve been using a paper time logger, and it feels clunky and time consuming and intrusive.

    Does anybody have an app they love that would prompt me once an hour or so to categorise the last few 15-min blocks from a pre-defined (ideally customisable) list and then spit out some basic reporting once a week or so?

    Something like rescue time won’t work as I go to a lot of meetings, so I need to be able to capture things like commuting, meeting face to face, workouts, etc rather than just software.

    1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      Absent the prompting — for a while I used a smartphone app called ATracker. I set up specific tasks (customizable) and then when I switched from one task to another, I hit the button on the new task and it switched over. I think the free version only allows a few tasks to choose from, but if you try it and it seems to work, the paid version has unlimited ones.

    2. MoopySwarpet*

      I absolutely love Atracker. There’s a free version that will give you a pretty good idea of how it works.

      You can use it for individual tasks that are organized into projects or tagged. I usually just have a handful of general tasks (checking email, working with Joe, designing teapots, grooming llamas, etc.) and then add a note at the end that give a little more detail on exactly what I was talking to Joe about or which teapot project was worked on. (The notes are a pro feature, but it’s a one time cost for Android or iOS.)

      The website is wonderapps dot se

  99. Lauren P.*

    Does anyone else here have a chronic pain condition and work as a full-time employee? How do you manage that in your workspace?

    I’m in a weird place when it comes to managing my condition. My primary mindset is to just tough it out and get over it. I try not to take days off if I can avoid it, try not to ask for accommodations unless absolutely necessary (i.e., due to acute tendinitis, I had to wear an orthopedic boot for a period of time) or ask for the least necessary accommodations to get by (i.e., I was supposed to wear two orthopedic boots but opted for just one at work).

    The issue is that a few weeks ago someone took my office chair at my desk and replaced it with what is, in essence, a school chair. I’ve tried to tough it out because life happens, maybe they needed the chair, etc., but this chair offers no back support and I’ve noticed an increase in pain symptoms since the switch.

    Like I said, I’m toughing it out, but I’m coming under increasing pressure from my family to try to get a more comfortable chair back. And I’m having a hard time navigating the issue because it seems like such a petty thing to go to my boss about, especially when I have no idea where the chair is, who took it, I don’t want to take a chair from someone else who may need it, and I have no way to keep the chair even if I get it back.

    1. Michelle*

      Go to your boss. If someone else needs a special chair, they should ASK and not just take yours.

      1. valentine*

        You gotta ask for a proper chair, in like neon so everyone knows it’s yours. Maybe put an electronic finder alarm on it. Stop toughing it out. You’ll end up unable to do so, when taking care of yourself now will put you in a better position in future.

    2. CheeryO*

      Oh my goodness, it is not at all petty to request a new chair. You don’t have to frame it as an accommodation unless you get pushback, and I have to imagine that you won’t. No reasonable person would expect anyone to be able to sit in a chair like that all day long.

    3. A Simple Narwhal*

      There is absolutely nothing petty about getting your chair back. I also think you should ask for all the accommodations you need, rather than just muddling through things as is.

      I totally get the instinct to push through (I’m 1000% someone who pushes through pain until someone rightly calls me an idiot and forces me to actually take care of myself so I’m right there with you) but there is no reason for it. If you need to take time off, do it! If you need to wear two boots, do it! Being able to work pain-free is not petty, and if your boss is not totally awful they are going to want that for you and will work with you to get you what you need.

      LNLN posted below in another question about workplace accommodations:
      “Go to the website for JAN (Job Accommodation Network) for information about workplace accommodations (in the US). It has information for both employers and employees. They have sample letters for requesting accommodations and you can call and get advice and answers to your questions about workplace accommodations.” It sounds like a good resource for you to look into.

      Good luck, I hope you get everything you need to work pain free!

      1. Yarrow*

        I appreciate the suggestion about the Job Accommodation Network! I recently got an ASD diagnosis and There are some really helpful suggestions there.

        And by all means, your need for a chair you can function in is absolutely important. You’re not petty for needing to manage your pain at work!

    4. eshrai*

      No, no, no, no, no. It is not OK for someone to take your chair even if they need it. You need it and it was given to you for a reason. You do need to take it up with your manager. Not in an accusatory way or with anger. But not apologetically either. You need this chair to function properly.

      I have chronic pain issues so i get it. But my job takes ergonomics very seriously and I can request an evaluation and equipment when I need it. For example, due to tendinitis I have a vertical mouse that was ordered for me. I switched my chairs due to chronic back pain. And just last week i had them remove my sit/stand from my desk because the desk was too tall and was inflaming my chronic shoulder pain. I know have an adjustable tray for my keyboard and mouse. My next request is going to be a keyboard with no 10 key on it (though I love the 10 key!) because moving my arm that far away is also inflaming my shoulder. It is OK to get ask for equipment/supplies that will allow you to function at work.

    5. Blueberry*

      It’s totally not petty– you only get one back in life! It can help to do a short search on the office supply or furniture company your company uses to present your boss with the exact listing for the ideal chair for you.

      (And when you get the chair label it.)

    6. Koala dreams*

      It’s not petty at all. Even if you didn’t have pain issues, it would be reasonable to ask for an office chair. As it is, you have double reasons.

      You can put your name on the new chair, and if chair theft is a big problem in your workplace it’s easy enough to fasten it with a wire when leaving for the day. Hopefully that’s not necessary, and the disappearing chair was just one of those work mysteries that happens.

    7. Fikly*

      Chronic pain here, more joints not working than working.

      You deserve to be in the least amount of pain you can be in. It’s not petty. You matter.

      Was the chair originally obtained through an ADA request? Did you purchase it? If you’ve worn a boot at work, they know something. I’m not going to tell you whether or not to disclose it, but if you’re in the US, and ADA acommodation will completely solve this issue – a chair that helps you to be in less pain is entirely reasonable, and they are legally obligated to make sure it stays yours.

    8. WellRed*

      Even if you didn’t have needs replacing an office chair with a non office chair is unacceptable.

  100. A Poster Has No Name*

    I’m curious to hear from any people who work for companies who might be impacted by the supply-chain issues presented by China being shut down for 6 weeks. Are you preparing for or dealing with shortages? Able to shift manufacturing or procurement elsewhere?

    We hear so much about the impacts of people fearing getting sick, but I’m more concerned about shortages due to our dependency on China, and am curious to hear how companies are dealing with that.

    Or whether my fears in this regard are overblown and we may see a dip in availability of those high-demand products but not much else.

    1. Rebecca*

      In my industry, we are going to have some delays, but due to lead time, sourcing, factory capacities, etc. there’s not a lot we can do to shift production (it’s the apparel industry). I’d rather the people in China be safe and have the opportunity to stay well and will be happy to wait on my stuff for another time.

    2. Environmental Compliance*

      My husband’s workplace has sister companies in China/general area that shut down entirely. It absolutely whalloped his facility, badly. All staff (including office) were pulled to the production line to try to keep the backlog down, but the facility really isn’t set up for that and it ended up causing a great deal of confusion, not to mention customers who were not happy that the engineers assigned to them now weren’t able to respond near as quickly because they were putting together parts instead.

      My facility has had no impact whatsoever other than having a longer than usual backlog on dust masks, but we also have no major products that we need from China direct, and our vendors have been lucky to have a decent shelf inventory for any parts we need (not that we need a heck of a lot). So really for us it’s been business as normal with a slightly increased lead time for some items. We are a chemical manufacturer, though, versus husband’s automotive.

      The biggest thing that has affected my company has been panic on our Corporate level’s side over whether anyone has a pandemic response plan, followed by them yet again stealing something *I* wrote. We’ve ordered additional hand sanitizer dispensers and replaced all the paper towel dispensers with hands-free thingies, sent out a notice to our staff, that’s about it. No cases by us and no travel by any of our employees.

    3. Jules the First*

      It’s been a nightmare. Our China operations have been closed for over a month (I think Hong Kong is back this week with a skeleton staff) but the workload hasn’t stopped. We’re now contingency planning in case the gov’t asks us to close head office in the UK as well and are hampered by the fact that the hardware we need to implement our preferred contingency plan is sitting in a warehouse in China that we can’t get to…and our backup set is in a warehouse in the middle east, which we also can’t get to (and here we thought we were being clever putting a backup set somewhere other than China!).

      I spent my weekend rerouting staff who were meant to be meeting clients abroad after one of our team got denied entry on account of his Italian passport and we have a handful of staff stuck in quarantine in a variety of places. Our people are mostly holding up, but our physical operations are straying into chewing gum and string territory because we can’t get spare parts for anything. If it goes on much longer, we’re going to have to ration raw materials. And we’re not even really in manufacturing!

      We’ve also had to pull half our HR and IT off their regular duties to deal with the fallout and the contingency planning.

    4. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      We don’t depend on China for anything, so it thankfully doesn’t have any impact here. But we’re very much the minority!

  101. Rebecca*

    I’ve become pretty disappointed how one of my customers is responding to delays with China shipments due to the outbreak. I’ll use the teapot analogy – as in – we had to tell a major retailer an order will be delayed by 10 days at the factory in China (smack dab in the middle of the COVID-19 outbreak). We explained there is a quarantine, the factory is now back at half capacity, but we will need more time to finish the teapots as some of the key staff have not been able to return to work yet. Totally reasonable, right? I literally got an answer like, OH NOES – our special teapots! We need them for our fancy thing! What can we do?? Answer – NOTHING.

    Rant – people are sick and dying from a disease, and all you can think about is your special thing? I can’t go into more details because it would identify too much, but it took everything in me not to just say “are you even reading what you are typing right now??”

    So yes, your thing might get here 2 weeks later than scheduled. The world won’t come to an end over it. Ugh Ugh Ugh Ugh!!

    1. Sharkie*

      Dude it’s the worst! I don’t get it. Without giving away too many details my company is at 6 week delays for product and material, and our office in China hasn’t been open since January. Thankfully everyone in my industry is in the same boat so our clients get it and are expecting delays.

      1. Rebecca*

        Same here, the only saving grace is everyone is affected. I’m really having to keep my fingers from typing things I know will get me fired. People can be so callous!

    2. Jedi Squirrel*

      We’ve been getting that question from all of our customers. Will our supply chain be impacted? Will it? WILL IT?

      Yeah, I get it, it could impact people’s jobs here and their ability to pay their bills on time (because we must feed the shareholders first), but DAMN! At least show some compassion for those who are losing loved ones and whose lives have really been turned upside down by this disease. It is HIGHLY annoying, and makes me lose a bit of faith in humanity.

      FWIW, this is an industry that traditionally shuts down twice a year for changeovers.

    3. Fikly*

      I remember when I worked in an ER, and we had a patient who was 100% stable, and would not stop calling because she wanted some water or something, but I couldn’t just give it to her because I had to get permission for her to drink first. Everyone was all hands on deck trying to keep a patient alive who wasn’t breathing and whose heart wasn’t beating.

      I had to be vague, but eventually, I apologized for the delay, but there was a critical patient so there unfortunately was going to be a delay before I could find out if she could drink. Her response floored me in its honesty: “I don’t care about them, I care about me!”

    4. Jeffrey Deutsch*

      Mmmm…sounds like apples and oranges to me.

      People are suffering and dying from many different things, coronavirus just joined a long list.

      If fulfilling your customers’ demands would cause more suffering and dying, that would be one thing. But it wouldn’t, and it doesn’t matter because you simply can’t.

      Yes, the customers may be being unreasonable based on your constraints. But compassion is beside the point.

      Not to mention that you don’t know what happens to your customers if they don’t get their special teapots one time. Maybe some people get laid off and have trouble making their rent…just like the sick (and yes, possibly contagious) temp worker who wrote in recently.

      Bottom line: You may not be able to help your customers right now. But…I’d dial down the harsh.

      1. TheFacelessOldWomanWhoSecretlyLivesinYour House*

        Agreed. Love all the compassion for the cornavirus people but you have no idea what other people are facing.

  102. starrr*

    Anyone got a good way of wording “due to family issues I have to remain in this state so I’m applying with the hope you’ll let me telecommute but I understand if that’s a no go” in a cover letter?

    1. Me*

      Don’t put it in the cover letter at all. This is an in person discussion down the road where you ask about telecommuting possibilities.

    2. AnotherLibrarian*

      Yeah, I would wait until interview time. But also, ask early. Because I have had candidates not ask until the offer stage and it super annoyed me. Like if this was a make or break issue, why did you apply for a job and never ask? Especially since in my field, telecommuting isn’t common.

    3. nep*

      I don’t know whether this is done at all (hiring managers?), but what I would do is ask up front even before applying. I want to know whether it’s a possibility before investing my time and asking them to invest theirs.

  103. lcsa99*

    I wish there was a way I could subtly send strangers to this site. As a receptionist I haven’t done any interviewing myself, but I am the first person to interact with these people and I’ve seen a few things that made me want to send people here to help with their interviewing skills.

    I felt really bad for the person who came today; he was 40 minutes early, and as soon as the door to the reception area closed and his interviewer walked away when they were done, he dug what was obviously a pre-written thank you card out of his bag, and asked me to give it to the interviewer. Sigh. Can’t help everyone I guess.

    1. Me*

      I dunno. This is so minor I wouldn’t hold it against him as a hirer. Someone trying to do the right thing and missing a bit is so much better than someone who does things like be rude to the receptionist :)

      1. lcsa99*

        Well someone who is just a jerk wouldn’t be helped by reading this site, but someone who is overly eager and anxious about the power imbalance might.

      2. Just Another Manic Millie*

        I think it’s more than “missing a bit.” Giving a pre-written thank you note to the receptionist to pass on was not a smart move. I mean, the receptionist was able to see that it was pre-written. If I were the receptionist, I would not be impressed, and I would tell the interviewer that the applicant had written the note before the interview. If the applicant was determined to write his thank you notes ahead of time, why didn’t he drop it in the nearest mailbox? Then no one would know that it was pre-written.

        At one company, where I was baited-and-switched into being the receptionist, I had to give applicants application forms to fill out, even if the applicants had resumes with them. One applicant objected vehemently, saying that he was interviewing for a professional job, and he shouldn’t have to fill out the application. When a secretary showed up to take him to see the owner, I said that he had refused to fill out an application. She said, “Oh, that’s okay.” He gave me a triumphant dirty look that said, “See? I told you that I didn’t need to fill it out.” What he did not know was that his interview was cut very short, and his resume wound up in the circular file, because he refused to fill out the application.

        1. Jeffrey Deutsch*

          I’d say giving a pre-written thank you note to the receptionist was well-intentioned but just a little clumsy.

          Far better than arguing over filling out the application.

    2. Mel 2*

      Could you try to integrate it into your small talk with the candidates? Maybe something around “I always get nervous around job interviews. I know that I love reading the Ask A Manager website for tips and tricks so I can feel better.” In this case, it’s friendly, puts everything on yourself (not the other person’s performance), and is just a general small talk recommendation.

  104. animaniactoo*

    Just to share a moment when the “company is like a family” worked to the benefit of the employee.

    My mom died last week. She’d been sick with a chronic, progressive disease where the only hope was a lung transplant and she was struggling to qualify and get listed. She had a very sudden downhill turn. Things that happened over the last month.

    1) My mom ended up in the hospital, and my dad needed extra support as he was very competently losing his mind because she was the worst she’d ever been. I took off a couple of afternoons without an issue to go be with them.

    2) Then talked to my boss and got approval to take off early every other afternoon and swap days with my sister to go be with them as an official schedule for the immediate future. Didn’t end up needing to use it much because…

    3) Mom got somewhat better and was able to transfer to a rehab. I was able to arrange to take that afternoon off so I could be useful to them.

    4) Mom was not progressing forward anymore, and we were told that we were looking at days or months, depending on how she responded to current treatment. Spoke to my boss again last Monday, got permission to officially alter my schedule and spend 2 afternoons a week up with her at rehab.

    5) On the same day that I made that arrangement, it was decided that current treatment was only ameliorating symptoms and not actually resolving anything and palliative care had started. My boss literally told me to go home and go be with my mom and take all the time I needed. Even though we didn’t know if it would be days or weeks. Literally said “Nothing is more important right now, do not feel any pressure to come to work, we will figure it out, go be with your mom.”

    6) Mom died 2 days later. I received many lovely condolence texts, and again a message from my boss to take all the time I needed. I texted my boss on Thursday to say that I was thinking about coming back in on Monday, and received back a message to see how I felt in a few days, there was no rush, and she wasn’t even expecting me in the office at all this week.

    7) I also received a VERY large care package from the company with lots of small treats and stuff to snack on that day. High quality stuff and very welcome in our “we weren’t prepared to be here” moment.

    I came back to work yesterday, and have been welcomed and treated gently and practically, in a way that works for me oh so well. None of the time has been charged against my PTO balance even though I am definitely over the official bereavement leave allotment.

    This is not to say that the company never exhibits some of the major dysfunctional behavior that comes with “we’re like a family”. But just to say… sometimes, they really put their money where their mouth is for the benefit of the employees with that outlook. And I wanna give them a bunch of anonymous props for it.

    1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      I’m so sorry for your loss.

      I’m relieved that your company has handled all this so well thought out.

      I haven’t worked anywhere that doesn’t understand this kind of personal tragedy, thankfully. So I clinch when I read stories to the contrary around here. So seriously, I’m glad even though they have their issues, your employer doesn’t stumble when it matters like that.

    2. A Simple Narwhal*

      I’m so sorry to hear about your mom. I’m really glad that your company treated you like a person and were able to make things easier for you.

    4. ...*

      That is so kind of them. This is much more minor than your situation but my work sent me flowers when I had surgery and it made me so happy! If your work-family treats you well, it can be a great thing.

    5. nep*

      So sorry for your loss.
      Wow–Thanks for sharing this. Happy that your employer has been so gracious and helpful. Restores hope.
      Peace

    6. Seeking Second Childhood*

      I’m sorry for your loss – and I’m so glad your company was so supportive.

  105. Drtheliz*

    End of the second week at NewJob and I think it’s going well. The project I was primarily hired for is still ramping up (it’s going to be in full swing in October so it’s maybe two days a week now?) and I’m being informally seconded to a bigger one, but it’s still mostly explaining what I’ll be really busy with come May or so.

    The secondment is long-term good news, as the bigger project is much more likely to get me a permanent job rather than my current 2-year contract. I’ve now got far enough up to speed to identify a task and get going on it, which feels good! I’ll show it to my boss on Monday when it’s done at which point (I hope) she’ll approve it and it’ll publish.

    I’m taking advantage of the fact that they track my hours (full flex time outside of 10-3, which is lovely) to make the switch from procrastination and longer hours to “work at work, rest at home”. It’s tiring now but it’s already feeling much more emotionally sustainable as I don’t have the constant guilt of feeling like I’ve not done enough. Still, Friday and I’m clocked off. Phew!

  106. AvonLady Barksdale*

    Has anyone worked for an industry or trade association and can point out differences between that type of work and a more corporate job? I have an interview next week for a massive, well-supported organization, but I have only ever worked for large corporate clients or small consultancies in the private sector. I have barely thought about what differences I might face but I’m sure there are some.

  107. Nana*

    ‘medical exam’ (earlier in the week) reminded me: I worked with an Irish woman in NYC MANY years ago. When they hired her, they said there would be an exam…OK…later in the week, once of the men in the [open] office asked if she were ready…as he walked toward her pulling on a pair of dishwashing gloves! That horrified look on her face was priceless. [and someone had brought doughnuts, as her ‘real’ welcome-to-the-office.

    2. ...*

      that’s kind of disgusting I would be sooo uncomfortable! Is it relevant that she’s irish or am I missing something?

  108. Beanie Baby*

    At my first “earning money to support myself” job, I made outside-of-work friends and it backfired horribly. It burned me from making work friends regular social friends. Fast forward 20 years, I may be in real trouble of breaking my own rule. Having always kept work friends at an arm’s length (not even friending them on social media), I have a new coworker who sits five feet from me in an open environment and we get along very well. We have things in common that I often do not have in common with others, we think alike, she is catching onto the work so much more quickly than anyone I’ve seen and she’s so kind, considerate, intelligent and disarming, that I find myself perhaps moving faster toward a personal friendship. Help! She’s only been here for two weeks and I definitely don’t want to get too buddy-buddy, particularly when I’m hoping to be promoted (but not necessarily into a supervisory role over her).

    1. Me*

      I would just throw out there that 20 years later you are older and wiser. And therefore likely a better judge of character AND of how to balance friendships and boundaries.

      Rules are great but they can also be modified from time to time.

      1. WantonSeedStitch*

        This! You can be friendly with people at work, and still maintain appropriate boundaries.

      3. Beanie Baby*

        I am hoping so. Since she is so new to the company, I’m going to play it slowly. I plan on staying here for a long time, so I want to be careful to keep our professional relationship friendly.

  109. Petty Mayonaise*

    I was thinking about something from my most recent job. I left a while ago but I was there for about 3 years. I’m either really judgy or my instincts are spot on…..i’m not sure.  

    -I interviewed someone and there was something about her that I was lukewarm about. I was new to interviewing, so I let my boss make the final decision. When ti came time for the practical portion of the interview, she bailed right in the middle of it. 

    -Another one I interviewed and I really didn’t care for her, but again I was new to the role and we desperately needed staff. She didn’t work out and we let her go a few months later. 

    -I interviewed one guy, and before I could finish introducing myself, he said “I thought I would be meeting with the supervisor?” Umm…that was me. I continued with the interview. He joined us about 4 months later, and at that time I was already in my new role and team, so I wasn’t part of the hiring process there. A few months in, he asked if he could take 4 months off during our busy season to focus on his own business so it was a mutual separation. 

    -Someone came in for an interview a while back. They were wearing jeans and were very casual, from what I was told it was a drop in and not really scheduled. The interviewer (a close work friend of mine) shrugged and said it wasn’t a deciding factor. A few weeks later, she was caught with alcohol on her breath and had been sending aggressively lewd messages to one of the reps half her age and was immediately fired. 

    -One guy was hired and on his first day he asked for me (Mary). I had no idea who he was, and he said “It’s my first date, I’m supposed to meet with [HR person].” HR is Susan. Mary and Susan are so far apart that I’m just like….uh? He’s not on my team but sits near us and I find him so obnoxious. Whenever his boss isn’t there, he’s talking to the women on his team. We have one private room that has a couch, and usually 2-3 people can sit on it and nap…..this guy spreads out and takes up the entire space. 

    The first two I would be working directly with, the last 3 were on different teams so their behavior/performance wouldn’t affect me — I know some of these have no connection to each other and some if not most are super petty. 

    1. Fikly*

      Were there times you were in interviews where you had similar feelings about candidates, but they turned out to be good or great employees? If so, yeah, it’s a bit judgy. If not, good instincts.

  110. Paper Jam*

    I just needed to vent a bit right now, and in the scheme of work issues, this is so, so, so, so minor but I just feel like I need a hug.

    We have a Keurig and a regular coffeepot in our small office. Recently, our admin team has been putting signs up to use/brew a pot of coffee before using the Keurig (we’ve been going through K-cups really fast). So, I attempted to make a pot of coffee since I was the earliest in the kitchen today. I’ve never brewed a pot of coffee in my life – I didn’t drink much coffee until recently, but I wanted to be a good office citizen. I cleaned the whole thing tried to make coffee, forgot that it needed water, and ultimately just humiliated myself in front of everyone. Took me a half hour, and then someone dumped it all out while it was brewing so no one got any coffee anyway.

    Cried in my office and started to spiral about how I can’t do anything right. I can, I’m a high performer and head of my department here. I know this intellectually, but it spiraled into how I can’t keep a house clean or how I can’t take care of my car right or be enough for my fiance – why would he ever want to be with someone who can’t make a cup of coffee! (For the record, fiance is the kindest, nothing but encouraging person, never critical, always kind and supportive, and super appreciative of even simple tasks like changing a roll of toilet paper). I keep thinking how I want to be a mom and if I can’t handle this stuff now without spiraling, I’d be terrible at it.

    I just want to go home and hide in my closet under a big old blanket. Work has been super stressful (I work in finance, market is volatile, so things are nuts). Also, I feel guilty that I’m going to use the Keurig when explicitly told not to because I can’t deal with such a simple request (and I know it’s terrible for the environment, so I feel guilt about that too). I feel so silly for writing this, but I just needed to get everything off my chest…

    1. CheeryO*

      Seems like it’s the straw that broke the camel’s back, but please try not to be so hard on yourself! I worked in a coffee shop and drink coffee daily, and I still need to stop and think whenever I have to make coffee using a drip coffee maker. It’s not intuitive, especially if you’ve never done it before! It says absolutely nothing about you as a person. If it really bothers you to use the Keurig going forward, just ask the nicest person in the office to show you how to do it. I promise it’s not something to be embarrassed about.

      1. valentine*

        I say not only should you leave the coffee making to the non-K drinkers, but they will appreciate not having a novice’s work.

        Watch some tutorials before you do it again. But, really, I wouldn’t. Because, if I burn it, no one can follow the stupid rule, whereas if I happily stick to my K-cups, those who can may do.

    2. Me*

      Oh my….armchairing for a sec, you may have anxiety. Therapist are always a good answer when you are having a rough time despite knowing better.

      I’m sorry you are feeling crappy. For every negative thought about what you’ve messed up, come up with 2 or 3 positive things you do. It may be hard, but breaking that negative thought spiral takes practice and is important.

      BTW Once I made coffee and forgot to put the pot under it. It was in fact the mess you’re imagining. It was also at my job…at a restaurant. Where it was literally my job :) You will survive this because you already have.

    3. Alice*

      I have given up trying to use drip coffee makers. You are not alone! If you really want to avoid the Keurig, you could bring in a personal French press. But honestly, I think using the Keurig is fine.
      You are also not alone dealing with what seems like anxiety. It couldn’t hurt to look into talking with a therapist or counselor. Good luck!

    4. WantonSeedStitch*

      I always say “it’s hard to make your coffee before you’ve had your coffee in the morning!” My stupid thing that I tend to do probably once a month or so, in spite of MAKING COFFEE ALMOST EVERY MORNING FOR YEARS AND YEARS, is to get my cup ready with cream and sugar in it under the drip of the cup-at-a-time coffee maker, make sure there’s plenty of water in it, and then press “start.” WITHOUT, I may add, putting in any coffee grounds. So I end up with a nice cup of hot, sweet, vaguely milky water.

      But your post isn’t about the coffee. The coffee was just the thing that brought everything else to the surface. This sounds like the kind of mood I can get into sometimes when little things keep piling up on me and then on top of it, my hormones are going nuts. Any chance hormonal stuff might be exacerbating your negative emotions right now? Or maybe a lack of sleep? Those always make it harder to cope with these kinds of things.

      Anyway, most of us have been there before. If it’s not just a “things suck right now” momeny, and you find that these kinds of feelings of worthlessness are chronic for you, that they are always present and cast a shadow on your life, it might be worth talking to a therapist about it.

      I virtually offer you all kinds of comforting things: blankets, cups of tea, chocolate…and wish you the best.

    5. LessNosy*

      Just giving you an e-hug. *hugs* Sometimes the littlest things can set us off in the biggest way. I have certainly been there myself. Please don’t be so hard on yourself – you deserve kindness just as much as anyone else!

      FWIW, I am almost 30 and am not 100% sure how to brew a pot of coffee either. I work from home now but I was always afraid of the big industrial coffee pots at my office when I was there.

    6. Miraculous Ladybug*

      I’m so sorry that you are feeling this way!! I can absolutely empathize with one tiny thing falling onto the pile and breaking the dam. You’re not silly at all.

      Also, I work for a coffee company where we make office coffee daily according to exacting instructions and to date, people have:
      Forgotten to put the carafe under so coffee goes everywhere
      Forgotten water
      Dumped out fresh pots of coffee thinking they were old
      Put it on a cleaning cycle, forgotten, and then drunk the cleaning-cycle water

      Coffee is weirdly complicated, y’all. Don’t even worry about this, and try to remember that you are not a failure!!

    7. This Old House*

      I always say that I’m a competent adult who’s good at my job . . . until someone asks me to make coffee. You may as well ask a dog to perform brain surgery. People act like making coffee is something everyone knows how to do, but how on earth would those of us who don’t drink coffee know how to make it?

    8. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      I’m kind of confused at this setup! Why do they have both options!? Why not one or the other?! Why aren’t they buying enough KCups?! What what what?!

      I had to google how to make drip coffee when we had a place with a drip coffee maker, you are not alone. I’m sorry you’re stressed, this kind of thing can really be that tipping point when everything else is so stressful.

      If you feel bad about using kcups instead even though the admins asked you to do the drip first [still WTF], maybe bring in your own pods and leave them in your desk or backpack? Then you’re not using the company stash so they can’t even be mad :)

      1. That'll happen*

        There’s also reusable k cups that you just put the grounds in so OP could get one and use that to ease their worries.

    9. Paper Jam*

      Thanks guys! I was in full on crisis mode when I wrote this morning. Yes, I do have diagnosed anxiety and generally have it managed pretty well, though these things happen a little bit. I have been going to therapy on and off for nearly 20 years since childhood – I’m currently between therapists since my last one retired and I haven’t found one that I’ve clicked with yet after trying a few, and things have gotten so busy that I haven’t had a free second to schedule any more.

      But my wonderful fiance called and is surprising me by picking me up at my office for dinner tonight even though I didn’t ask – I have nearly an hour long commute from home, so I was really touched. Hoping things calm down a little next week – thank you everyone!

    10. Koala dreams*

      The hard things with coffee makers is that there are so many different kinds. Teapots are usually simpler. (Maybe I’m biased as a tea drinker, though.)

      I find it silly how society expects us to find the same things easy. Maybe that coffee maker was complicated for you, and singing lullabies would be easy. For another person, singing lullabies is super hard but that coffee maker would be a piece of cake. (Just an example, I know not all parents sing lullabies.)

      I hope you feel better soon and find some instant coffee and a cozy blanket, and fuzzy socks too. (My fuzzy socks are in the laundry, so…)

    11. nep*

      Sorry you’re struggling. Sounds like things are enormously stressful for you right now.
      For the Keurig, could you get one of the reusable cups?
      All the best to you.

  111. Holly*

    I have a chronic illness (multiple in fact) and the pain and other symptoms affect my mobility. The company has a policy of working from home 1 day a week. Some managers allow their teams to work remotely as often as they like. My manager allowed me the flexibility to work from home whenever I needed, which was several days a week. My quantity and quality of work were great and never negatively affected because of working from home. That manager has since left and the new manager will not allow me to work from home more than 1 day a week. Since the change in management I’ve done my best to get into the office but can’t do it 4 days a week as they minimally require. They emailed me about the working from home issue and had me reply with “I understand ” which I think is their version of a formal reprimand that they will use as documentation with the intent to fire me soon. My manager scheduled a meeting with her, HR and myself for Monday. I plan to point out my great work record and the fact that I have Intermittent FMLA set up in the event that my symptoms won’t let me work. I feel like I should also be prepared with info from the Americans with Disabilities Act about “reasonable accommodation” and remind then that for the past couple years they have been making the accommodation but are only now deciding to revoke it. Any advice? Anything I should be weary of bringing up? I don’t want to get a lawyer, but I’m not going to just lay down and let them fire me because of an illness that I can’t change that has not affected my ability to actually DO the work, only WHERE I do the work.

    1. LNLN*

      Go to the website for JAN (Job Accomodation Network) for information about workplace accommodations (in the US). It has information for both employers and employees. They have sample letters for requesting accommodations and you can call and get advice and answers to your questions about workplace accommodations. JAN is a great resource; hope it helps you!

    2. Holy Moley*

      Does new manager know about your chronic illness? As someone with multiple as well, Im always upfront about my limitations. And yes, bring up ADA if this turns into a reprimand meeting.

    3. BelleMorte*

      You need to document reminding them of your disability and your ongoing request for accomodations in writing (and blind copy yourself on a non-work address), ASAP.

  112. we're basically gods*

    Does anyone here hire for programming roles?
    I currently have a bachelor’s in Liberal Arts and I completed a web development boot camp last year. I’m currently working as back-end developer, but I would ultimately like to move towards more serious development. I’m considering picking away at online degree in programming, either an associate’s or a bachelor’s.
    Is this worthwhile? If so, which should I go for? If I can move into the realm of never having to do front end work with an associate’s, I’d love to save the time and money, but I want to make sure I know what I’m up to.

    1. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

      I’m not a hiring manager, but I’m a senior enough software developer that I’m heavily involved in my company’s hiring process.

      First, if any of the associate’s degree programs feed directly into a bachelor’s degree program, I’d favor those because it gives you a little more flexibility to either stop or continue without jumping through a lot of hoops. And you’ll still have a degree to put on your resume to get past anyone or anything filtering on the presence of a degree.

      Second, my bias is totally going to show here, but “front end” technologies like JavaScript, HTML, and CSS are not inherently less serious than “back end” technologies like C# or Java. And the separation between the two continues to get blurrier. Node.js is a flavor of JavaScript specifically for working on the back end. Blazor is Microsoft’s new technology for writing front end code in C#.

      Third, at least at my company (which does primarily web development), having a degree have any bearing on which part of the technology stack you’re working on. All of our developers are considered “full stack” and are expected to be able to do anything from updating the styling for a web page to setting up a new table in our database (at least in the development system).

      That said, management does try to play to our strengths and preferences whenever possible. I have a counterpart with the same degree (BS in Information Technology from the local university) who does primarily front end work, while I do primarily back end work. We got pulled in to a meeting to estimate how long a potential new piece of functionality might take to write. We estimated it for both one and two developers, with the caveat that the one developer estimate assumed one of us would be the developer, and the time for tasks within the project would be different depending on which of us it was.

      tl;dr – Go for the associate’s degree, and separately look for jobs targeting either full stack or back end development.

  113. Me*

    In case anyone remembers my tale of the new guy who was awful and among other things showed up to work in a shirt that said “Straight outta F*cks” (the word was fully spelled out on the shirt.)….he was in fact let go. I’m sure your shocked.

    Kind miss the entirely mind boggling behavior. It was something to talk about.

  114. anonhotel*

    I work at a hotel in a city that has seen one single case of COVID-19. People have been cancelling in droves. Mostly everyone has been entirely gracious and as understanding as possible due to the circumstances. But we all know there’s always one…I had a person scream at me over the phone because they wanted to cancel a nonrefundable reservation. At the time we were holding firm to our cancellation policies, so it was really fun to get screamed at and cussed out for something that isn’t the fault of myself nor the hotel at large. I understand it’s not the guest’s fault either, but please be patient and kind, people.

    1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      At least this was someone who didn’t show up…just imagine how they’d act if they were on your property and they found their towels not perfectly folded or something out of place! [That’s the only silver lining I can come up with you. I’m sorry you were treated poorly, ef that person, you’re kind to have any understanding of their behavior.]

      Say it with me, folks. You run the risk of losing your money if you make unrefundable reservations.

      Travel insurance places are probably going through utter hell right now. They have made multiple announcements that it doesn’t cover your fear. You have to actually be sick…again it’s the risk you take planning in advance and making advance reservations. This is a business, it’s not to screw you. You dropped out and the company was holding that spot for you, they deserve their money, you clicked through these rules and regs when you signed up, it’s so basic

      1. anonhotel*

        Exactly. People see travel companies or anyone involved in tourism as these huge faceless corporations, but this affects the little people WAY more than the execs. Our staffing is being cut to bare bones at the moment. People who regularly count on full-time hours that they truly NEED aren’t getting that. The CEO isn’t going to sweat because his check is missing 10 hours this week. I recognize that it’s hard for everyone, but travelers aren’t the only ones seeing negative effects.

        Thank you for your kind words.

        1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

          People see this in all acts of business.

          This is why people think it’s fine to just snatch a Snickers bar and eat it while shopping then not paying for it. Because “oh well, shrink, it’s built into the costs, ha-haaa, Big Man Safeway dun need this 99c!”

          They treat us all like this. I work for small businesses. Just like you may work for a franchisee who owns a couple hotels not the entire frigging chain!!! It’s frustrating AF to listen to on all levels.

          The only business I don’t flinch at “taking advantage of” sometimes is the ones who are actual mega monsters and have it in their SOP. I’m looking at you, Amazon. I have had packages refunded and show up MONTHS! later. No, I’m not sending them back, LOL. That kind of “whatever” is fine IMO, it’s so much hassle on their side anyways, they really don’t make it easy to return that! Or if there’s a delivery snag, they left a box in a weird area and we ended up getting it replaced only to find it hidden in bushes or some weird crap.

          1. KoiFeeder*

            Amazon keeps putting hamster wheels in with the koi food, if you want a hamster wheel that is too small to be ethically used for hamsters.

            No, I do not understand this. I have like, five now.

            1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

              WHUT? I cannot even figure out why they’d be doing that. That sounds almost malicious lol. Like someone put the hamster wheels in the wrong bin and because nobody will move them, they’re added to everything as a “side item” to the koi food that really belongs in that bin…

              1. Fikly*

                I follow a subreddit for amazon reviews (because humanity is amazing) and someone got a package from amazon that did not contain their purchase, but did contain a half eaten pastry?

  115. Tongue Cluckin' Grammarian*

    Well, I did it.
    I put in my notice (6mos) to my boss today.

    My one big negative about this job is being perpetually underpaid (11yrs this year and only 30% increase in salary during that time. No COLA, average benefits), but ultimately I’m leaving because I’ve been away from my family for 12yrs now and this year it just hit me far harder than it ever has before.

  116. Bookslinger In My Free Time*

    I have started my CLTD training (anyone out there with a CLTD or taking the CLTD course? I am lonely lol) (self study path) and had to take allergy meds today. I am so out of it I can barely stay awake, let alone focus. I want to complete the entire 150 hour course by early August and test by the start of September, and here I am, fighting allergy meds induced sleep.

    Separate, but semi related, I am feeling the lack of mentors available in my area. There aren’t a lot of women in logistics to begin with around my rural slice of the country, and I haven’t met anyone who occupies the type of position I do, where I report to the plant manager and corporate logistics only. Anyone wanna be a mentor buddy?

  117. Anon for this*

    Happy Employee Appreciation Day!!!

    My boss gave our team the afternoon off. Except we’re all hourly. So our gift is a 10% cut in this week’s pay

    1. WantonSeedStitch*

      Are you serious?! Did anyone point out to him that time off means time unpaid for you all?

    4. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      What. WHAT?

      Like they’re really not giving you those hours paid? We have done this kind of thing but it’s always like “Go home, no don’t clock out, I’m going to do it manually for you at your regular time.”

      Just like how if someone gets hurt on the job and I pay them out, jfc. That’s ludicrous stuff, I’m so sorry.

    6. Jeffrey Deutsch*

      Many moons ago, I worked briefly for a company whose name you might recognize — in their call center.

      One fine day, the call center manager announced a contest — for which the winner would get time off.

      One worker asked if that time off would be paid. The manager answered: “Of course not.”

  118. Sleepy*

    I’m in kind of a weird position in that I’m both part-time and exempt. I’m paid for 24 hours per week (3 days). Usually I spend those days in the office and then work on my freelancing the other two days per week from home. It’s always been tough to draw boundaries with the part-time exempt combination, especially when my freelancing is slow, like it is now.

    This week, with a sense of urgency around how our workplace will create contingency plans for coronavirus, I’ve worked a lot more than 24 hours. I worked several hours on Sunday on something that was really time-sensitive and urgent while I had friends over (my husband entertained them), and I joined work meetings remotely on days I wasn’t scheduled. I’ve also been working long days when I’m on, though that feels more like part of the job and I was expecting that.

    I want to be a team player at an all-hands-on-deck time, but I’m worried about eroding boundaries. I have a new boss (in his first month) so I don’t want to establish as the norm with him that I’m available all the time. I was kind of expecting that he would acknowledge me as going above and beyond this week, especially for my weekend work, but he didn’t, which makes me think he may see it as normal.

    So I’m wondering–should I bring this up? Draw stricter boundaries now, even though it’s a tough time at work? Wait until later? My new boss seems like a good guy, so I’m not worried about his reaction necessarily, I just don’t want to be unprofessional by complaining in a time of crisis.

    1. A Simple Narwhal*

      If this was a one-time occurrence I probably wouldn’t say anything, but if it appears that the immediate future is going to require you doing full-time work for part-time pay, I would say something. Is there a lot more work to do or was it just a rough week, but now that the immediate prep work is done it should go back to normal?

      Ugh the part-time exempt thing is annoying, my first instinct was “You’re only paid for 24 hours? Stop doing work beyond that without compensation!” But the exempt part means you get a flat salary with no overtime pay, right? I don’t know what your agreement looks like, but if it was that you only work on three days and the future looks like it’s going to require a lot more time put in, I’d be tempted to say that you only agreed to work Mon-Wed, if they need work done Th-Sun they’ll have to pay you for it. But I don’t know, this is a tough spot.

      Again, I could be entirely off-base, I hope someone with specific experience chimes in, I’d like to hear what they have to say.

      1. Sleepy*

        Exactly, a flat salary with no overtime. Thanks for your thoughts! I agree that I probably won’t say anything this time and will have to see how it unfolds.

    2. jenny*

      It may be that he didn’t acknowledge your work because it’s understood that coronavirus is something new, novel, and required an exceptionally rare additional effort on your part. I would also add that since it’s your boss’s first month, he’s only seen you at most 3 or 4 weeks and you haven’t had the chance to establish an actual pattern with him.

      If I were you I would address the issue of working too much the next time that you were expressly told to work additional days/times, but not before then. Something like “I made myself available due to the emergency situation around the coronavirus, but I’m actually not available at X time/Y day. My schedule is Z.”

      In your case it will also be very important for you to distinguish work that you’re told to do (like working on Sunday and creating the plan) from things like work meetings that you join remotely because you’re allowing yourself to feel that pressure to join in. You teach people how to treat you, and if you don’t want to be the go-to person, or the person who everyone assumes will join the meeting even though she’s “off,” then definitely don’t do it just because freelancing is slow.

  119. EwDavid!*

    Hi all!
    Happy weekend! Looking to vent and possibly get some advice. Back in September I left my workplace of 11 years because I was burnt out and wanted to do something different. I’ve been at my current job for about about 6-7 mths now and I am just so boooooored. I feel like I am stuck right now! I am thinking about going through a recruiter but I don’t know if it’s a good idea. For context, I am in my early 40’s and have been in the healthcare field for many years now. I just don’t know if I want to continue down this path. I also only have my associates and I’ve been working on getting my Bachelors. I want to do something different but I feel like I’ve pigeonholed myself. *sigh*

    1. irene adler*

      Do you have any ideas as to what you do want to do? Are you looking to put your current skills/knowledge to use in a new way? Or are you looking to get out of healthcare completely?
      If you are looking to use your current skills/knowledge in a new way, you might visit some professional organizations in your field of expertise (or one that’s related). See if they have ideas on what you can do with what you have. Or if there’s a short course or two (or certification program) you can pursue that would get you into something new. Might even reach out to the members of the organization and ask if they have advice or suggestions for you.

      1. EwDavid!*

        Funny enough a recruiter reached out to me. I may just reach out just to network. I’ve always been fascinated with investment but with the way things are right now not sure that’s the route to go! lol

  120. LessNosy*

    Would it be annoying if I reached out to the hiring manager I interviewed with last Monday to send a link to an industry-related article I mentioned in my discussion with him? I had a really great interview and I’ve heard from him twice since the interview. Initially, last week a few days after the interview, he had told me that I’d hear from the HR rep on next steps early this week (1 week after interview), unsurprisingly as we all know sometimes things take longer! I realized earlier this week that I had never sent over the link to the industry-related article I was referencing, even though I meant to do so in my email.

    Would it seem desperate to follow up with that now, while I’m in “next step limbo?” I admit I do want to stay top of mind, but I also want to illustrate follow-through, industry awareness and thoughtfulness. I’ve been debating this for DAYS because I don’t WANT to be “that annoying candidate” who checks in an inordinate amount…

    1. jenny*

      I personally do it, as it’s going to seem like a transparent attempt at poking the bear to get a response out of the company. Sending over a hyperlink isn’t going to increase your chance of getting hired, especially if it’s several days after your interview. Also bear in mind that the hiring manager may not know HR’s exact schedule, and someone may have gone out sick, or tasks related to you may have been shuffled around, so I wouldn’t necessarily read into it all that much.

    2. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      I agree with @Jenny, since you’ve already followed-up (and heard from the hiring manager), don’t follow-up now. That would either going to be neutral or negative for your candidacy.

  121. But There is a Me in Team*

    Extreme interview anxiety, verging on a panic attack- can anyone help? Writing on behalf of my hubby, who has had it happen 2 times in a row-never had it happen before. Context is very long days of interviews, like 4-6 hours with different people and then when he has to do the tech test, he totally blanks on simple things he’s been doing for years. To the extent where he sometimes can’t see the keys or the screen looks blank for a second. He said the equivalent would be if you’d been a chef for years, went to an interview, sat and told the people how you’d make a meal and then when you went to the kitchen to demo, couldn’t remember how to turn the stove on. He practices coding/puzzles/ etc at home all the time with no trouble and while nobody loves to interview, he’s always made it through before. I’m also annoyed on his behalf as even the most two-bit IT jobs all think they’re Twitter now and put you through an extreme process. But, he needs to be able to get past this mental block. Thanks for any suggestions or if you’ve overcome the same kind of thing.

    1. WantonSeedStitch*

      That sounds like serious situational anxiety! I wonder if maybe some breathing exercises he can practice daily could help. That way, when he gets to a coding test, he can start going through the breathing exercises and it’ll be old hat to him, and it can help him calm down.

      1. But There is a Me in Team*

        Thanks for taking the time to weigh in. I feel awful for him and of course there’s not much I can do. Have a nice weekend.

    2. AnotherLibrarian*

      I would find a therapist who specializes in CBT and can work with him. I have panic attacks and the best thing I’ve found is breathing exercises and awareness exercises through CBT. However, his situation maybe different and a trained professional can probably help.

  122. Argh!*

    Evaluation conversation coming up. This year I reported to a new boss for the past 3 months & the old (horrible) boss for 9 months. The new boss reports to the old boss and will do whatever she says to do, so I’m not optimistic. The old boss is very insecure, pays very little attention to my actual job, and has rated me based almost entirely on clerical things like whether I sign off on my timesheet before her other reports, or minor typos (like two periods at the end of a sentence that I’d moved by dragging and dropping), and whether she’s heard anything she can interpret as negative about me. (Tattle-tale culture here – nobody tells a boss when work has been stellar or helpful)

    I could use some go-to phrases to rehearse out loud so I’ll be ready with just the right tone (yes, it’s also a tone-trolling culture), and words to avoid ticking off the new boss when she delivers the evaluation that will no doubt have been written by the old boss.

    Ideas?

      1. Argh!*

        She knows which side her bread is buttered on! She’s already sent an email response to a question I had that is 90% the voice of my former boss (who is a micromanager, especially for written communication from supervisor to supervisee).

  123. Stormy Weather*

    I’m still plugged in to the gossip mill at my former employer and I discovered the first person my former boss hired has left, having simply had enough of her narcissistic toxicity. She was known for, among other things, yelling at her staff (she once slammed the door in an consultant’s face). This boss is the woman who put in the request to have me fired right before the holidays. (There were some good reasons that I was put on the PIP, but she had been at the company barely a month when she did it and never offered me any help).

    Can’t help but smile.

  124. Anon bc work*

    This is currently a hypothetical situation, but it might come up eventually so I want to ask about it here.

    I recently got a job in a small industry where I’m located. It’s one of those ecosystems where everyone in the industry knows everyone, and different organizations collaborate frequently.

    Prior to being offered my current position, I made it to the final stage of interviews for another company. I was one of 2 finalists, but ultimately lost out on the position. In general, the interview process and interactions with the President and VP of the company were pleasant, and after being rejected for the job, I thanked them for the opportunity and moved on.

    This company occasionally provides consulting services to my current company, so I might have to interact with them in the future as part of my current role.

    Question is: If/when I do meet with them, should I pretend I’m meeting with them for the first time and ignore the previous interview interactions as if they didn’t exist? Should I say, “It’s nice to see you again” and later explain to my current colleagues that I had interviewed with them in the past? Should I just wait to see what they say and do?

    I feel like I’m overthinking this but am genuinely not sure how to behave in this context.

    1. Kathenus*

      Yeah I think you might be in your head a bit on this one. If it were me I’d use something like “Nice to see you” (leaving off the ‘again’). Since you’re a bit worried about others’ reactions/questions, this greeting has the benefit of being both generic (could be for a new person or past acquaintance) but friendly and even if it’s tacitly to the person you’re greeting it acknowledges the past meeting. I wouldn’t go out of my way to explain it to anyone later, but if someone asks you directly you can decide depending on your friendship/trust in them whether you mention a past interview or something more general like you met them a few years ago or whatever.

      1. LessNosy*

        +1 – since you said your industry is small, that makes it easier to just say “Oh, I met them a few years ago” without needing to explain much more. It could even fly under the radar altogether if the industry is super close knit!

    2. Policy Wonk*

      You are overthinking this. You’ve already said everyone in this industry knows everyone. You should say It’s nice to see you (with or without the again). You don’t need to explain anything to your colleague. You could have met him at an industry event, when you were in school, etc. I’m always amazed when I run into people at work that I first met somewhere else, from my kids’ day care, scout troops, even one that went to elementary school with my brother. It’s a small world.

  125. AutolycusinExile*

    I’m wondering if anyone has any advice for interviewing for a position you know nothing about?
    Through the magic of networking I was referred to an internship position with a company by a former employee who got me an interview with the hiring manager. I know that they’ve hired one person already and have one opening remaining – but the position isn’t publicly listed!
    I have an *extremely* broad idea of the general topic of the internship but that’s it. This is making me nervous, since most interview advice leans heavily on preparing by referring to the position and what they’re looking for out of a candidate, but I have no way of knowing!
    Any tips?

    On a similar note, I was asked by a different networking contact to send her my resume and I’d hear back from here once their department decided on hiring plans for the summer. She gave it to the hiring team already, or so I’ve been told. However, their formal internship process is such that they ask interested applicants to email their hiring manager about open opportunities (again, no listing or application posted publicly). Should I email him too? Theoretically my contact already gave him my resume so I’m leaning towards no, but now I’m doubting myself…

    1. WantonSeedStitch*

      Honestly, I might ask the former employee if they could have the hiring manager send you a formal job description: let them know you want to make sure the internship sounds like a good match.

    2. Mother of Cats*

      Are you in touch with the hiring manager yourself now? If so, I think it would be fine to request a copy of the job description (if there is one) and explain that you want to come to the interview as prepared as possible. As someone who hires interns myself, I’d appreciate that and be happy to give you some basic info before the interview.

    3. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      Research the company/organization’s mission, their current programs, services, clients, etc. Your internship will support or work on something that’s within those aspects, even if you’re in a support department (e.g. HR, finance).

  126. ContemporaryIssued*

    Saw an email with my old boss talking to my current boss and members of my old department. I wasn’t supposed to see it, I think my boss accidentally filed it in the Cinnamon Apple Tea folder of our shared inbox when she was meant to archive it in her own inbox’s Cinnamon Apple Tea folder. I used to work at Cinnamon Apple Tea, now I work in Tea Bag Assembly, but will still answer questions from Cinnamon Apple workers because I know their department.

    Anyway, the email talked about issues within their department and “people’s chemistries and differing views on what tasks belong to them” and the boss wanted views as well as to discuss this with my boss, as she has a clear view on what all Flavor departments should be doing. Jessica, the most senior worker in Cinnamon Apple, has ranted to me about some flubs by some of the junior colleagues but I didn’t know the issues were severe.

    Very awkward. What have you accidentally seen that you shouldn’t have at work?

    2. CoastEast*

      Uhhh one time I opened a word doc in our share drive that was very similarly named to what I was looking for. Turned out what I had opened was a coworker ranting that they hated me. Definitely made me feel awful and second guess everything I did/said for months. Course they were in the wrong for saving such a thing in a *public* folder

      1. Amethystmoon*

        Such rants should generally be saved for personal computers or paper diaries when you come home from work, so as to not risk the wrong people seeing them at all, ever.

  127. HannahS*

    This week was The Match for medical students in Canada. I have a lot of feelings. So many feelings, guys.

    In brief, The Match (similar in the US) works as follows: In November of your last year, you submit applications to the disciplines + locations that you’d like for residency. In January/February, you fly around the country to interview. You rank the programs, and each programs ranks its candidates. This is analyzed by a computer program, and in March, you receive your assignment–you don’t get to choose; the algorithm “matches” you to a single program, and that’s where you’ll go. The submission of a ranking constitutes a contractual agreement. I got my second choice, one of the most prestigious and competitive programs, in fun, cool city, where I will now live for, likely, six years (due to anticipated mat leaves).

    I…feel bad? It’s just so MUCH. The whole thing is absolutely grueling, and expensive, and in my case I have a partner who lovingly is coming with me, so I was responsible for the futures of two people, and he now has to leave his home (which he assures me he’s fine with and I believe him, but I feel bad). My first choice was my current school, so it hurts that the program didn’t want me. The only student from my school who matched to the program here is brilliant and deserving and may have had a nepotism advantage and that makes me feel bad. My family is thrilled for me and I’m not and I feel bad. I feel bad that I’m so much of a perfectionist that getting my second choice, which means that the most competitive school in the country ranked me within the first-choice cohort, feels like failure. I feel a little sick that I wanted so, so badly to go to where I will be going, and then spent months of emotional work to be mature and make a good decision instead of a selfish one because I got engaged and the future of two people changes things, and I made my good decision and now, instead, I’m going to the place I wanted when I was single, which I swear was not secretly what I wanted but people think it is, and I feel like it’s all my fault, even though it’s empirically not. Multiple people in my class who applied to the same specialty as me didn’t match at all and I am so damn grateful that I matched, and matched to somewhere that I will genuinely enjoy and benefit from, and I feel guilty that I’m not happy. I’m also, frankly, burnt out, because it’s not like regular life (which includes family deaths in addition to just regular medical school) stops.

    I know this is a lot of just being overwhelmed and discomfort around choice being taken away, and I knew that I’d have very mixed feelings even if I got my first choice, because I don’t love the city I live in now and don’t have friends that are staying. I know that these feelings will pass if I just accept them and let them be, and I know that I start to feel a lot better when I look at apartments with my partner and talk about what our lives will really be like (i.e. awesome!). I just wish the whole match process was a little gentler.

    1. jenny*

      First of all, congratulations. Seriously! Second of all, take some of this pressure off of yourself. Look at all the “I” statements in your post. Your fiance is presumably his own person, able to make his own life choices. There are also tons of medical professionals who made these choices-you didn’t buy your way in or weasel your way in or sleep your way in. Trust that your fiance is able to make his own decisions, and trust this process. If you wouldn’t say to your very best friend all the stuff you said about yourself, don’t say it to yourself. You would never say “Not getting picked by your first choice is a failure” or “This is all your fault” to a friend, right?

      1. HannahS*

        Thanks! It’s helpful to remember that I did what I could, and other than that it was out of my hands.

    2. Havarti*

      Oof, that’s a lot on your shoulders. But congrats on getting your 2nd choice. My family always jokes that getting silver in the Olympics is still a heck of an accomplishment whenever my perfectionist tendencies pop up.

      1. HannahS*

        You’re so right! That’s a great way to think of it. I’d totally be proud of someone else who did the same thing, just not myself. Perfectionism, man. It sounds like a humble-brag when it’s actually just a crap form of anxiety.

    3. AvonLady Barksdale*

      The Match is ROUGH. And it is also huge, and I’m not shocked that you would be feeling so weird after such a huge decision. The adrenaline has been building and building and now it’s… over. But it’s not. You are about to embark on an adventure in a city you will enjoy exploring (um… when you’re not resident-ing) and your partner is willingly coming with you. Please believe him, by the way. I am a trailing partner and while the uprooting sucks, I was prepared (both times) and willing. Trust that if he has a problem with the new city, he will tell you. At the end of the day, the results of The Match prove to you that all of this hard work has reaped some benefits and will likely continue to do so.

      I don’t mean to dismiss your feelings at all, just to encourage you and let you know that IT IS OK. Let it out. Please take this weekend to recharge and do something nice for yourself.

      1. HannahS*

        Thank you SO MUCH. It’s so helpful hear from people who’ve been through it. You’re right, a lot of it is the sudden…now, what? I know I’m just going to feel a little weird for a while.

    4. Spreadsheets and Books*

      My husband went through the US Match in 2016, so I know exactly how stressful and painful and emotional it can be. He also got his second choice, a solid program in New York City that has worked out so well for both of us, but that doesn’t mean the whole process wasn’t beyond draining. I will never forget opening his envelope together (he skipped his school’s ceremony) and just sobbing out of happiness and exhaustion and the stress of what was to come. The whole process is just a roller coaster and it’s absolutely impossible to understand the pressure and the anxiety unless you’ve participated and watched it all unfold.

      Speaking from the partner’s perspective… you don’t date/marry someone in med school without knowing what the road holds. Do not feel bad that he has to uproot for you. He signed up for this, just like I did. The Match is unpredictable and controlling, and I know that my husband did his absolute best, just like yours knows this about you. I promise you, your partner is proud of you over any other emotion and is excited to take this journey with you.

      Congratulations on matching. Take this time to relax, breathe, and get excited. You did it!

      1. HannahS*

        Thanks! Yeah, the match featured heavily in the first, “Yes, I want to date you, but here’s what’s coming down the pipeline for me.” He signed up for it, and is happy and proud, and I just adore the man to bits! It’s hard to be responsible for someone else’s future. Gosh, it’s such an emotional rollercoaster. It’s always good to hear I’m not the only one on an emotional rollercoaster.

    5. Spreadsheets and Books*

      I typed out a whole comment and it seems to have disappeared when I went to post it. Crap.

      My husband went through the US Match in 2016 so I know exactly how stressful and awful and emotional the whole process can be. He also matched his number two, a very solid program in New York City that has worked out great for both of us, but there’s no way to express the roller coaster that was everything from applications to Match Day. I’ll never forget just sobbing when he opened his envelope out of sheer overload of emotions. It’s something you really can’t understand without being up close and personal with it. And my husband talked about nothing else for an ENTIRE YEAR so it was pretty much our lives for the entirety of M4.

      Speaking from a partner perspective… No one marries a med student without knowing what the road ahead holds. The Match wasn’t some secret that ambushed him in the night. He knew what could happen, just like I did. He made a commitment to be a part of your journey, and Match Day is just one moment out of a whole lifetime of being married to medicine. I promise you, your partner is excited for you and proud of you. Do not feel like you let him down, because you didn’t.

      Congrats on your match. Take this time to relax, let the pressure go, and get excited about what’s to come. You did it!

    6. The Rain In Spain*

      I’m the spouse of a (now practicing physician) and moved twice with him- once for residency and once for fellowship. Neither places were first choices, and we were thrilled he matched, but not super excited to move. But we were together and that was the most important thing. And we learned to love both places and decided to stay in the one where he did his fellowship!

      As the significant other in this situation, I did not even for a second begrudge him the results. I also did not begrudge him his rankings, either, even though they didn’t align with places I’d want to live, they did align with the best programs for him! It’s wonderful that you matched into such a well respected program!

      You can’t take this personally. You’ll never know how your current institution ranked you- they often rank assuming they won’t get their first four choices to fill their four spots, for example, and so you may be 5th or 7th and they thought they had a good shot of getting you. Try not to focus on the nepotism- sure it’s annoying and frustrating, but you matched into a phenomenal program on your own merits!

      This whole process IS super grueling. Try to enjoy a solid vacation before you start, even if it’s a staycation in your new location so you and your partner can explore! I will say that it gets easier as the years go by. You may find that this is the best outcome for both of you. One thing that helps us is to keep in mind that we’re never stuck where we are currently- so you may be in new city for 6 years but you could always move after that if you choose to! 6 years is a drop in the bucket of a lifetime :) Good luck with your training!

      1. HannahS*

        Thank you! You’re so right. The city we’re going to is actually fantastic, and I think will be good for his career as well, which is a relief. And there’s no reason we have to stay there for fellowship, if we don’t want to, but it’s also somewhere we could happily live for the rest of our lives. It’s good to hear from people on the other side! It’s such an emotional wringer.

    7. Fikly*

      I don’t know that you not getting matched with your first choice means your school doesn’t want you. They presumably have a limited number of spots. There were clearly people they ranked more highly, but that doesn’t mean they don’t want you at all!

      It’s like when people post here about coming in second on a job search. It doesn’t mean they are a bad candidate, or that they wouldn’t be excellent at the job. Very often there are multiple people who would be excellent at the job, and sometimes it’s just not you who gets the offer, but it doesn’t mean something negative about you.

      1. HannahS*

        For sure! I’m fairly sure they did want me, just not as badly as they wanted several other people. It was a tighter competition this year, more so than usual.

  128. PDL*

    Hey all, just curious to get peoples’ thoughts on this. I came in today to find a gift for National Employee Appreciation Day on all desks – a notebook embossed with my company’s logo and “Goal Digger” on the front.

    It’s raised a few eyebrows here.

      1. Environmental Compliance*

        I assume the similarity to “Gold Digger” which is a weird thing to put on a company-sponsored notebook, but also feels like it was supposed to be a pun…. it doesn’t make much sense as a pun for a company gift, tbh.

        Weird, but meh.

      2. jenny*

        “Gold Diggers” are women who sleep with men for “gold,” aka money. So I would assume that “Goal Digger” is playing off of that reference and the tongue-in-cheek joke is that the person is willing to sleep with whomever (or at least do “Whatever it takes”) in pursuit of his or her goals. It’s a joke that would be seen as being both corny and in poor taste in many professional offices.

        1. Lucette Kensack*

          Yes, I understand the pun. I don’t understand why anyone would give it more than a split second’s thought.

          1. jenny*

            It’s extremely odd that this company is not only sanctioning the use of the pun but comfortable with putting its logo on “swag” that includes the pun. Generally sexual topics and implications are not seen as workplace-appropriate, so it’s odd that no one flagged this issue before these notebooks are printed. “Haha, it’s a joke/pun” really doesn’t make it feel more appropriate. It just feels like the kind of bad joke that someone very junior would make. And can you imagine a company like Halliburton printing “Goal Digger” notebooks? Or WalMart? Or Cigna? I’m in the legal department at my company, and my job is, at times, to be the Wet Blanket along with Human Resources, so that’s definitely coloring my impressions here.

            1. Environmental Compliance*

              ^This. I couldn’t figure out a way to word properly why this would have my eyebrows raised too, and this is well put.

              Am also the Wet Blanket of my facility, FWIW. But also, FWIW…. I don’t think I’d call this an “innocuous” pun when it has a sexualized history and is part of a corporate-branded company gift. Very odd that their HR dept wouldn’t have flagged this as inappropriate.

              Not something I’d raise hell about, but definitely something I’d side eye a bit (and then send to a friend, because she’d find this hilarious as heck to use as a personal journal).

            2. RVA Cat*

              There’s also the fact it’ll make lots of people immediately think of the Kanye song, which is full of the n-word.

              1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

                LBR most people are thinking of the edited version when they think of it, since it’s the one they most commonly hear.

                It’s tacky but this is going down a really slippery slope when you’re bringing up a hip hop song and the words their words.

            3. Sharkie*

              I mean when I worked in sales at a household name my male late 20’s boss told me and my other female coworkers (mid to early 20’s ) that we will only get ahead if we got on tinder and try to sell ourselves and our product. He had been told by HR many times to stop so he changed the wording to “I can’t tell you to do this but this what the most successful Women in the program do”

    2. Salty Caramel*

      Someone was a bit caught up in their own perceived cleverness, I suspect. Not a choice I would have made.

      Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by stupidity.

    5. Passive Aggressive*

      I would take a piece of colored tape, tape over the Goal Digger and make it a point to carry the notebook with this obvious fix to important internal meetings. If someone comments, say I like the notebook but had to cover the offensive phrase. Thus making the point.

      1. Mediamaven*

        That type of passive aggression really does not sound like a good idea. I’d just not use the notebook if you don’t like it.

      2. fhqwhgads*

        Alternate option that’s less confrontational: if you want to use the notebook and obstruct the phrase, put a giant sticker on that covers it, but is less conspicuous than a straight up piece of tape over the phrase and only the phrase. Like the kinds of stickers people put on their laptops. Also makes it less likely anyone would ask about it.

    6. Fan of San Francisco*

      The D-word is also a slur against California Indians that was coined during the Gold Rush era. Such a notebook would not go over well as a gift in my place of work.

  129. CopyCat*

    Hi all.
    What is the best way to work toward a career as a copy editor?
    My bachelor’s in math (with some graduate courses, graduating with honors) would surely be a plus for some situations. And, for what it’s worth, my undergraduate thesis involved some new results and won a state-wide prize for math theses. Would copy editing of scientific writing be a good place to start?
    I love the printed word, am good at details, and read a lot. I’ve also written a lot of fan-fiction.
    Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

    1. littlelizard*

      I’m in an editing field with a science degree. In my case it helped that I edited the school paper in college, but I’ve found that a lot of editing jobs just want you to have general literacy and interest in good writing (demonstrated by having a degree and being a grammar dork respectively…). Jobs with “content” in the name are abundant right now, and many of the entry-level ones have very general requirements.

    2. Fikly*

      There are a huge variety of specialties within the copy editing field, and most people specialize. I would recommend looking into the options and seeing what appeals, and then looking to get experience there.

      If you are interested in math related copy editing, your degree would be a huge plus. I have seen many postings for STEM related copy editing where a bachelor’s in a related STEM field is a big plus.

      1. Congrats on the new job!*

        Where is the best place to look for job listings? Also, is it possible to do this remotely?
        Thanks.

        1. Fikly*

          Thanks to modern technology, it’s very possible to do this remotely.

          ACES isn’t a bad place to start to get an idea of what’s out there, for copy editing that is not fiction. Note that they have both copy editing and editing jobs.

  130. Ezera*

    My job involves a lot of paper.

    Think: documents for client files, but also meeting agendas, and handouts to give to clients during meetings, stuff that needs to be scanned, etc.

    I’m a naturally messy person.

    Does anyone have tips for both organizing the paper, or systems for staying on top of things (like clearing things at the end of the day or something)?

    My desk stays perpetually stacked. Once every few months I clear things off, but then it just piles up again. I have an office, so I do have some space to work with.

    1. Name Witheld, USA*

      I think David Allen’s Getting Things Done book has some decent strategies on organizing paper monsters.

    2. jenny*

      Check out “Atomic Habits” by James Clear. One of the things that he recommends is that you stop identifying yourself with the behavior you want to change. It’s very telling that you say “I’m a naturally messy person.” It’s how you see yourself. Change that around and start telling yourself “I am an organized person” or “I keep my papers organized” or whatever resonates with you.

      Next, set up some sort of system that YOU (specifically) can stick to. Systems work best when labelled as “I will [behavior] at [time] in [location].” Mine is that I shred/sort/organize all my papers every Friday morning when I get into work. But that’s really specific to me, because Friday mornings are dead slow around here, then in the afternoon and evening people are rushing to push things off on me for the weekend, and I don’t want to stay late to clean my desk.

      In any event, whatever you set up should be objective, meaning that an outside observer should be able to tell if you’ve done the task. “Clean up some papers on Friday mornings” wouldn’t work. What does “some” mean? It could mean one page or 100 pages.

      You may need multiple systems-one good one would be to have individual baskets delineated by whatever you find most helpful. I have a shred basket, and as soon as I know something’s going to get shredded it goes in there. Adhering to the “one touch rule” (where as soon as you’re done with a paper you put it back in the proper basket) may be helpful for you to establish as a habit.

    3. LunaMei*

      For me to stay organized/tidy, I have to minimize friction and make it as easy as possible to tidy up. So I get organizers for my desk that are pleasing/easy to use, and keep a recycle bin under/at my desk to easily chuck papers. Also I’d set a reminder on my calendar to spend 15 min each day tidying up.

      If you are able to and want to – buy your own organizer stuff. I bought my own at Target, because I wanted to pick out pretty things and not just use the ugly old brown plastic file stands that had been in our store room for ages. It sounds silly but it helped me take more ownership of the task of organizing because I had stuff that was “mine” and I liked using.

      1. jenny*

        These are also good ideas. I have a reminder set every Friday to submit my timesheet or I’ll just forget to entirely.

    4. Ariana Grande's Ponytail*

      I do try to clear my desk at the end of every day. I find it really helpful for creating a peaceful space for me to come into the next day, and kind of mentally clearing out the day’s tasks as well!

      I can also recommend using OneNote to make/take notes and create meeting agendas. This works for me especially because I have weekly meetings with each of my bosses and I can simply copy last week’s tasks into this week’s meeting notes, then edit and modify as needed. It keeps me from losing tasks on random sheets of paper that get buried at my desk. I also like that then, my written notes on the printed copy that I bring to the meeting are really obvious. And it reduces the amount of paper that I need to keep track of!

    5. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      Throughout the years of many papers, I use both labeled racks/boxes and file folders. So you want to keep things in their “stacks” aka the racks and then you want to keep them in proper files so that you can leaf through easily.

      I don’t do it daily but every few days I’ll go through and make sure everything is in it’s proper location or that I haven’t lost something somewhere else.

  131. AnonPi*

    I’m currently anxiously awaiting to find out if I got a job within my group. I interviewed last Friday (was the last one), and I know the manager met with all the other panels by this past Wednesday. I’m vacillating between telling myself not to get my hopes up even though I know I did very well and be the logical choice, and feeling there absolutely not picking me because they want the job to go in a different direction and feeling depressed. There’s a lot going on behind this, so it just makes it worse in a way. I’m at the end of a months long application/interviewing spree, and don’t feel like I have it in me to do anymore. But I have student loans coming due in a few months, so I either need a better job (which I’m at the point in my career that it’s warranted) or have to get a second job. So now I feel bad I’m not applying to two more jobs I found this week, because I’m just so burned out. *sigh* I just hope they don’t drag this out more than a few days, though I feel like if I don’t hear anything by next Monday or Tuesday, I’m not the person they’re going with. Last time in this group (though different manager) they dragged out telling me and I found out through scuttlebutt I didn’t get a job weeks before they officially told me.

  132. Schnookums Von Fancypants, Naughty Basic Horse*

    So I sell health insurance, Medicare specifically, and ended up having to help a customer that another agent (who works in our offices in another state) messed up. I did the legwork and determined that the application will almost certainly need to be resubmitted, but agreed with the customer and help desk that we’d wait until the full 15 business days were up before following up. Well according to my immediate supervisor I was supposed to push through the application that very day, and that’s why she assigned me to help this person (I was the one who originally took the customer service call). So when I was out of the office she ended up giving away my lead to someone else to complete. So now they get credit despite me doing most of the work. And honestly from experience I know complaining to her boss isn’t going to help. Thing is, I’m new in this department and was handling the call how I’ve been trained to do so in the past with the previous department (I’ve worked for the company for 3 years but have been in Medicare sales for around a month.) So now I have a supervisor who’s actively undermining me because I didn’t make the sale that very day (which is hardly necessary.) I personally suspect she was trying to boost her numbers for that specific day, but I have no way to prove it.

    Honestly, I’m not looking for advice, just venting. I understand working under a new manager can have growing pains, but this was beyond the pale. It doesn’t help that she’ll cut me off when I’m asking a question to provide a completely wrong and often irrelevant answer simply because she couldn’t wait to hear all the details. I’m frustrated and wondering if there’s any openings in the insurance business in my area now.

    1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      I heart your username.

      And I do not heart this shady ass shenanigans you had to deal with, ick nast. Sales is so brutal, I know it’s just a thing they do sometimes and still doesn’t make it sit right with me!

      1. Schnookums Von Fancypants, Naughty Basic Horse*

        I too heart your username! I think by internet law that makes us besties now!

    2. Schnookums Von Fancypants, Naughty Basic Horse*

      Well, they decided to coach me about the call on what *I* did wrong. So I refused and told them I was done for the day, clocked out, and left two hours early. Not a good response, but honestly it was that or tell my supervisor exactly what I thought about her. I choose to leave instead.

  133. Waiting to be Future Endeavored*

    I’m interested in learning more about Project Management. One local university offers a 6-course certificate program. Another university offers a 10-week PMP Certification prep course. What are the pros and cons of each? I do very basic project management in my current job but would be interested in moving into a new field in a few years. Is PM even worth it? It does seem like a lot of responsibility with no authority, but that’s what I have now anyway.

    1. Stormy Weather*

      I’m a PM and I find it rewarding, challenging, and sometimes a little frustrated. You could put ‘herder of cats’ on your resume and not be wrong. Be prepared to navigate political waters.

      When it comes to getting certified, you have to have a lot of documented hours working as a PM before you can qualify for an exam. Look a the Project Management Institute’s website for the exact numbers.

      I took a 6-course program over two years and loved it, BUT those six courses were not enough education credits to use for my exam qualifications, so that’s something to look out for. Make sure the course is PMI-approved.

      I took the CAPM exam, a Certified Associate in Project Management. I did this because I’m old and hadn’t studied for, never mind taken a standardized test, in 30 years. I figured if I was going to fail, I’d fail the cheaper one, and it would be a good learning experience. (I passed). The CAPM exam is information from the Project Management Book of Knowledge, which is a really dry set of standards and processes.

  134. Rational Lemming*

    Hi Everyone –
    I’ve been reading AMA for a year or two now and I see people, including Alison, say “Go talk to HR” – including one of today’s responses. And I agree that it is the best approach sometimes!
    My issue is I have worked in big/huge companies for my ~10-year career (Two Fortune 100 companies and now a 30k+ employee publicly-traded company) and I would have NO IDEA where/who to go to for this information. Even when I’ve worked in a building that also housed our HR department, I wouldn’t have the slightest idea of who my contact would be! I looked on my company’s intranet to see if there was a contact list, and honestly, the only thing I see is an Ethics violation hotline and our pay/benefits site.

    My question for others who have worked in large companies is: Do you have a person (live human) you would go to? If you had a problem that you didn’t feel comfortable going to your manager with, would you know who to talk to?

    1. LunaMei*

      Finding the right contact in HR at my university is also a hassle, so I start by calling them and just asking whoever is there. Eventually someone would direct me to the right person. For a sensitive topic, I would let them know it’s a sensitive topic and ask to speak with a manager or someone like that. You could also go in person. I’m definitely an email person, but for some reason email just goes into a giant black hole in our HR, so calling or going in person is best to ensure I get a response. For something urgent or sensitive I would probably go in person.

      There is some delineation on the HR website about who to contact for various things – like benefits, or Title IX, or whatever, so if they have a website or guidelines, I would try to “use their language” and say you have an issue about “X” and let them direct you from there.

  135. Sarah-tonin*

    Hi all! You were all so helpful last week with my question – I’ve gotten better and have mostly let it go, thanks in large part to all your support, thank you so much. I have a new one: I’m coming from a public libraries background (in reference/adult services) and am looking for jobs that are not in the public library. Be it academic or a research place, whatever. Just not a public library. I’m not getting any interviews (I know academic can be slow), but I’m wondering if I should try a different resume format, a skills-based one instead of a traditional format (although do academic libraries like the traditional?). I’m sure a lot of non-library people don’t know what all we can bring to the table.

    1. So academic library*

      Even if the academic library is requesting a resume. What they really want is a CV. Look for examples of those and follow the template. Education First. Then Jobs, then service, then publications. If you are not published yet, become involved in your local organizations. Create a blog to post recommended books in your subject area. Follow other academic library blogs and websites. Look for part-time and evening positions to get your foot in the door.
      Do NOT use a skills based resume. Use the traditional order chronological but under the jobs put the skills as they would relate to the academic job. For example- class visits to the public library. This IS teaching. This IS bibliographic instructions. Put some numbers a class of 30 a week is over 1,500. Provided research instruction to over 1,500 students a year.

    2. blepkitty*

      I agree to do a CV (for academic) or traditional resume. A CV is best for an academic library, but it won’t look much different from a resume if you haven’t published or presented. That’s okay!

      Do include a brief skills section, though. List some databases and software you’re familiar with that you think would be helpful for the particular job you’re applying for.

      1. Sarah-tonin*

        thanks! I haven’t published or presented anything (aside from presentations in school), just because that’s not as common in public libraries (beyond, like, conference presentations.

        I’m going to go through AAM’s resume and cover letter guide this weekend (or when I have some free time). although her advice isn’t so much geared towards academia, since I’m going to be applying for jobs that might not be in academia, it’ll be good to know regardless!

        1. blepkitty*

          Conference presentations are what I meant! They go on your CV if you’ve done them. If the librarian position is a faculty one, you’ll be expected to do those (and probably try to publish).

          Also, I forgot about this, but if you’ve been on any grants, list those!

          Outside of academia I think is quite a cr*p shoot, if you’ll pardon my language. You’ll find places that have whole libraries (I’m currently in a corporate library with ~10 staff), and places that hire one person without a library degree to run their whole “library” after laying off their entire staff. I don’t know if there’s any guessing what they’re going to want to see on a resume, barring any subject-specific resources you know about.

          1. Sarah-tonin*

            whoops, sorry, I haven’t done any conference presentations, aside from presenting at an english conference in college (not library school). it was a super small conference, because I went to school in the middle of a cornfield (said lovingly). would that be something to put, even though it was for undergrad?

            where did you look for your corporate library job? I’m looking in the chicagoland area. I don’t want to leave libraries completely, I just don’t want to show people how to print all day, which is what I do (or feels like I do) at my public library job. I don’t hate my jobs, I just don’t want to do this public library thing full-time anymore. (if I truly can’t find anything else I’ll look into full-time adult services jobs.)

            1. blepkitty*

              If it was for an established conference where you had to submit and be accepted to present, then it should probably be on, yeah. The question is basically, does it show that you know how research, conferences and publishing work in a particular field? And if the answer is yes, it should go on.

              I believe I found the corporate job on indeed. (You probably know this, but just to be sure, do lots of checking on the reference desk situation at any library. Generally, if you have to do a public service desk shift somewhere with a printer, you can assume questions about printing will be frequent, though the degree of frustration obviously varies.)

              1. Sarah-tonin*

                thank you for taking the time to reply, even though it’s not friday. :)

                so what it was, was a project we had to do for one of my english classes in college. the project was a research paper on a topic and book we were interested in. I minored in english but majored in psych, so I think (it’s been awhile) my paper was about trauma and recovery in the novel “speak.” I related ~english stuff~ and ptsd and it involved quite a bit of research, which I loved.

                does it matter if I no longer know where the paper itself is? I’ve gone through a couple hard drives and laptops since then… but I have proof I presented at the conference! is someone in hiring gonna ask to read my paper?

                and I know I’ll probably never be able to escape printer questions. I just don’t want them to make up the bulk of questions I get asked.

                1. blepkitty*

                  Okay, if it was for a school conference I’d leave it off. Just include conferences of professional or academic associations.

                  Good luck!

    3. Nynaeve*

      Yes, academia is slooooooooooow. You’ve gotten some good advice already, but definitely play up any transferable skills: instruction, reference, ability to work with a variety of people, collection development, etc. You may have better luck with smaller colleges or community colleges than big state universities just because of assumptions about how similar they would be to public libraries. Academia can be very ego-driven, like “can you hack it with the sMaRt PeOpLe?” So anything you can do to allay their fears that you don’t understand SeRiOuS sMaRt PeOpLe ThInGs will be to your benefit – show your conference presentations, show that you can provide instruction to a variety of people, grants and publications if you have them, etc. But really, tenured faculty aren’t as different from a room full of screaming children as they’d like to think ;)

      1. Nynaeve*

        Oh and also, network! Particularly if you go to a big conference like ALA, go to a mix of sessions that are relevant to your current job and to the types of jobs you want to apply to. Talk to people who have the types of jobs you are interested in and see how they got there. Small local organizations can be helpful too, like state chapters of ACRL or SLA – they are often looking for more people to participate in the organization and will gladly take your money and committee service. Since jobs are often advertised on local listservs like that, it’s also a great way to find out about job postings.

        1. Sarah-tonin*

          I feel like I’m playing up my skills already, in terms of teaching experience (no conferences, but I’ve developed and taught tech classes, on like skype and google docs). I talk about this in my cover letter and resume, but I might need to revamp both.

          it’s good to know that I’m somewhat on the right path (academia aside) and am kind of doing the right thing! I don’t have the opportunity to go to ALA (I work at a couple small libraries and they only send the managers, if that). I’m trying to find the Illinois chapter of SLA since the overall membership fee is a little too much for me right now. but I am checking the SLA job board!

          it just really sucks because I’d love a full-time job, and it’s not like I’m applying to jobs that require an advanced degree or experience I don’t have. but I’m sure looking at alison’s resources will help.

      2. So Academic!*

        OMG! You totally nailed my job interview. The constant rephrasing of ” understand that this is an R1″ ” Faculty have high expectations” “A rare tenure-track opportunity” “Internationally renowned program” I learned very quickly to say “I” not “we” and that it was perfectly acceptable to take credit for anything that you touched.

  136. Portia*

    Anyone have advice on whether to change jobs when you have a new baby?

    A job is opening up at the school where my friend teaches, and she and some of her colleagues are strongly encouraging me to apply. I would be a strong candidate for it, and it would mean a reduced teaching load and a higher salary (her school is fancier than mine). I am happy at my job in general except for the ever-growing class sizes, but I figured I probably had several more years here before I was unhappy enough to look elsewhere. I can be a little prone to inertia, though, and I can see staying here long past when I really should be moving on. So a big part of me says, “this is a leap that will be rewarding, why spend a few more years being underpaid when you could already be elsewhere?”

    BUT – I’m due with my first baby in a couple of weeks. If I start a new job in August, it’ll be with a four-month-old in daycare for the first time. I figured I would basically coasting at work while I adjusted to life with baby, not taking on all the craziness and unknowns of a brand-new job. The timing is bad. (Though the salary bump would sure help with daycare!)

    There are openings at this school from time to time, but certainly not every year. I’m meeting my friend after work today to chat about it, but does anyone have strong “yes, it will be fine, go for it!” or “noooooo, absolutely do not do this, I speak from experience and it will be awful!” thoughts?

    1. Faith*

      Go for it. Reduced teaching load will help more than you might realize, and odds are that “fancier” school has more resources that will also help with teaching.

      2. Ellie Mayhem*

        Although in my experience, “fancier” schools mean more parents who are demanding and not very respectful of educators’ time. Acclimating to a new environment with increased pressures to produce results, plus having a new baby might be a big challenge.

        1. Portia*

          This is by far my biggest concern about the school in general. I know the parents are pushier and more entitled, but I’m going to try to get a sense from my friend of how that actually plays out on a day-to-day basis.

  137. Vic tower*

    I posted this very late in the open thread a few weeks back so sorry for the double up.

    I’m 15weeks pregnant and a few weeks ago my mother made a weird comment about hoping I wouldn’t wear clothes that showed the outline of my belly button as the pregnancy progresses.

    Is this a thing? Are there a lot of people who consider it unprofessional to wear clothes that show an umbilical shape? I don’t mean showing the skin of the belly, just that the fabric reveals the outline of what’s below. And I don’t wear particularly tight clothing usually! Surely depending on the type of belly button you have, this is practically impossible unless wearing a sack or serious layering?

    What are y’alls thoughts?

    1. LunaMei*

      It is not a thing. Most people don’t care about belly buttons, including protruding pregnant belly buttons. And yes, as you progress, it will become 100% impossible to prevent an outline of the belly button, unless you are wearing a giant sack. Even then, it would have to be like a burlap sack or other super thick fabric, because your belly would be the point furthest out, and the fabric would lay on that point first. During my first pregnancy, I was at my largest during winter, so I wore a lot of sweaters and layers…and you could see still a little out line, cuz I HAD A BABY IN THERE. It’s not a thing.

      I can’t promise no one will care, but 99.99% percent of people won’t notice or care. Congrats on your pregnancy!

    2. carlottamousse*

      I’ve never heard about this being a thing, either. Empire dresses are perhaps an alternative (no guarantee, depending on how your bump grows), but really, I wouldn’t worry about this at work at all. I’d also highly recommend Seraphine if you’re looking for professional maternity wear.

    3. A Simple Narwhal*

      This appears to be an outdated view point from back in the days where pregnancy was considered gross/inappropriate/whatever you want to call it but there was a point where you were expected to hide everything about pregnancy. Old maternity clothes used to be formless sacks. They weren’t allowed to say tv characters were pregnant, they were “in a family way”. Men were supposed to wait down the hall and smoke while their wives gave birth. This mentality has (for the most part) gone the way of the dodo and your mom is way off-base.

      There was a letter from a while ago from a pregnant woman who’s boss didn’t like her (very professional looking) maternity clothes and told her it was unprofessional for her to wear empire-waisted clothing and that she had to wear normal shirts tucked into pants and belted around her waist, which was physically impossible in her state. He was threatening her job so Alison (rightly) told her to go to HR. There’s an update too where the HR person was horrified to hear about it and the issue was dropped. Oh and in a fun twist he ended up getting fired for being an overall awful person. I’ll post links to both in another comment.

      So long story short, it’s fine to show pregnancy shapes, don’t listen to your mom. Oh, and congratulations!

    4. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      The only place I’ve heard this sentiment was on a pregnancy forum (hello from 28 weeks!) about someone’s MIL having this same outdated sentiment.

      In my opinion, it’s not unprofessional. Different pregnant people might be more or less comfortable with their belly button protruding from their shirt they way they would be more or less comfortable highlighting or hiding the shape of their belly.

      People who want to tell a pregnant woman what to do with her body can go suck eggs.

    5. Campfire Raccoon*

      It’s not a thing. It’s leftover misogynist malarkey and/or some weird preference of your mother’s.

      But if this is the weirdest opinion she springs on you over the course of your pregnancy, congratulations. Moms be momming crazy hard with them grandbabbies.

    6. D'Euly*

      Just to answer your last question, there are “belly button covers,” disposable or silicon, that can be worn to cover a protruding belly button – I think they are mostly marketed now as protecting it if it’s getting chafed by your clothing, but they also prevent the outline being seen.

      For your other points, yes that was a weird comment, people get really weird about pregnancy sometimes, and I hope that you wear exactly what you want to wear whenever you want to wear it.

    7. Portia*

      I agree with everything everyone else has said, but also want to say that if this is something you’re personally worried about (not just your mother), wait and see if it even turns out to be an issue for you. I’m 37 weeks and though my belly button is super weird looking now, it doesn’t protrude through my clothes more than it ever did. And you may, like me, find that shirts/dresses that fit tightly over your bump are too uncomfortable to wear anyway – I’ve definitely been exclusively wearing tunic type tops, which, yes, do resemble sacks!

    8. Pretzelgirl*

      I never got the protruding belly button throughout my pregnancies. Some women do and others don’t. I have seen it on other women, and didn’t really think much of it. I agree with the PP, that the thought as gone by the wayside.

    9. HBJ*

      I’m not sure I’d call it unprofessional, but I do find it weird and distracting. And I say this as a person in her 20s who’s been pregnant three times.

  138. Anon with the eyes*

    Had federal government interview, and awaiting results. Was told they’d give an update likely this week. No word. Suspense. After 2 rounds of interviews. I’d never been to a government interview that had 2 rounds.

    Also, my left eye has no redness but hurts. Could be:
    1. Office lighting
    2. Erratic weather (30 to 60 then back to 30 degrees)
    3. Dehydration
    4. Stress?
    5. More stress?

    1. Corky's wife Bonnie*

      6. All of the above. I notice that my eyes hurt when they are dry, my doctor said to get Systane drops (over the counter) and use them twice a day. Once I started that they felt much better. They also have eyelid wipes in the same area as the drops. This gets any debris that might be on your eyelids. Hang in there!

    2. Holy Moley*

      Could be pink eye. My eye hurts before it turns pink.

      Good luck with the job prospect! Watch your emails for the job offer :)

  139. Bex*

    I shared last week about getting sick at work, and an ambulance ride from it. I just wanted to thank the folks who answered my question about how I could move forward.

    I came into work Monday, and after a few concerned questions, everyone seems to be chill. I did take a few minutes at our weekly department meeting to acknowledge what happened, give a quick summary (bad migraine to where I wasn’t eating, this made me sick), reassured everyone I was okay and appreciated their help and response … and that was it. An office mate occasionally checks in and asks if I need some bottled water but that’s it.

    Thanks everyone for the advice and encouragement on how to handle this. It’s all good!

  140. Overqualified*

    I recently interviewed for an extremely exciting role on a different team with my current employer. This team works in a sector that is highly competitive and selective (both internally and externally) and positions do not open up frequently. In seeking this role, it would be a relatively significant switch for someone of my background, which is why I’m focusing making a transition internally where the group would have a better understanding of how my background and experience could be a match with what they’re looking for.

    However, I recently discovered that that this team has reassessed their needs for the position and are now dropping the role down a level (from 6 years experience needed to 3 years experience needed) and have taken out a lot of parts of the position that were attractive to me (such as supporting strategy development and other similar higher-level challenges) to focusing more on the administrative tasks. I would be pretty over-qualified for the new version role and it was also likely require me to take a not-insignificant pay cut.

    My concern is that these roles are difficult to come by and, as I mentioned, highly competitive when they do become available. That said, even though the position itself and related benefits are less attractive to me – I’m curious what you would do if your were in my position. Provided it’s offered to me, I wanted to get others thoughts on what they would do – should I take the role to get my foot in the door of this sector I’m highly interested in? Or gamble on waiting for something else to become available?

    1. Buttons*

      I think for me it would depend on what their track record is with advancement in that team. Will you be stuck at that level and in that position for a long time? Or do they have growth and promotions opportunities?

  141. SyFyScientist*

    Looking for recommendations for work Leadership books written by women, non-binary people, and non-white men/women/NB.
    Trying to provide a wider reading list for our leadership program.
    Thanks.

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Playing Big by Tara Mohr. It hit very, very close to home and helped me reframe a lot of my ingrained communication habits.

      1. Buttons*

        This is an excellent book. If you search for Playing Big by Tara Mohr you can find several TED style talks from her.

    3. Blueberry*

      The Little Black Book of Success: Laws of Leadership for Black Women

      by Elaine Meryl Brown, Marsha Haygood, Rhonda Joy McLean, Angela Burt-Murray(

    5. Also interested in leadership*

      Salsa, Soul, and Spirit: Leadership for a Multicultural Age by Juana Bordas. Can you share your list when it’s done, please?

    6. Tiffany Hashish*

      The Memo: What Women of Color Need to Know to Secure a Seat at the Table by Minda Harts

  142. Lkit*

    Inspired by a recent job search, I’m wondering what common phrases in job adverts strike people as red flags when they read them? We all know ‘fast-paced environment’ means ‘we want to pay one person to do the work of three’; my friend adds ‘must be resilient’ means ‘you will be the communicator of and lightening rod for all the bad news and bad decisions the upper management want to convey to the drones.’ What else is typical?

    1. Miraculous Ladybug*

      This might just a design / tech thing, but:
      – Anything about unicorns / ninjas / wizards = we want you to do three disparate jobs and be happy about it
      – “work hard, play hard” = balance? what balance?
      – “we’re hustlers” = see above

    2. A Simple Narwhal*

      I always get wary if they mention benefits like meal deliveries (especially if they mention dinner), sending out laundry, all hours car services, or pretty much any benefit designed to take care of things you normally have to do in your off-hours. Sure, it could be a company that wants to take care of their employees and make their home lives easier, but more often I find it means they don’t want their employees to leave the office and work-life balance is nil.

    3. Not really a waitress*

      Family environment/Family oriented

      I worked for one of those companies. My own family was dysfunctional and so was this business. Not to mention they thought that being a “family oriented” company meant they could get into yours.

      Run For Your Life.

      1. Lkit*

        I once worked for a ‘family friendly’ company; they meant ‘no specific accommodations or flexibility for your newborn but we’re ok with you bringing your baby to meetings.’

    4. Misty*

      I once saw a job posting that said “be excited to work harder than you’ve ever worked before in your life” on indeed. It seemed a bit too intense.

    5. ...*

      I see “Fast paced environment” in probably 95% of job ads though. I think my job had it in there and it is a fast paced environment in the sense that you need to be working the whole 8 hours, but its not an overload.

    6. CoastEast*

      Saw a job advert that said “must love the great outdoors.” Sounds wonderful for an outdoorsy person, right? When we pulled up the same job on glassdoor, “great outdoors” meant working in a parking lot during all weather conditions without a cover (seattle rain) while the boss sat inside a office watching you from a window.

      Also hate the word resilience from over use in the military, so that was a good catch. Gotta watch the word choice employers use. Its like real estate using the word “quaint” to mean “incredibly small”

    7. sheep jump death match*

      For a middle manager job once: “ability to influence without authority.” It isn’t even a polite euphemism!

    9. Jeffrey Deutsch*

      “BA required, MA preferred”: They may want someone with an MA who will work for a BA level salary.

      “No experience required”: They may want an experienced person who will work for an entry-level salary,

  143. A Turn See*

    I interviewed for an attorney role and waiting to hear back. I also am doing courses as part of my current position that my job partially subsidized. I want this new job badly but imagine the awkward of getting a certification from current job then hopping to new job–would I be giving myself a bad name hopping jobs once I get my certification?

    1. Bunny Girl*

      This has been the subject of a couple letters here before and I think you’re fine. Most reasonable employers know that things happen and sometimes timing isn’t great, but that’s the cost of doing business. I would look in your employee handbook though. Some companies do have policies (crappy ones) that employees have to pay back tuition costs if they leave within a certain amount of time after completion.

      1. KayDeeAye*

        You really think it’s “crappy”? I don’t see why. If the company pays for the training, it’s not unreasonable for the company to think it ought to get some of the benefit of the training. It’s kind of standard operating procedure, as far as I know.

  144. Fikly*

    This happened last week at an all day two team meeting, and I really enjoyed the “typical” situation being turned on its head.

    There were about 20 of us, all women except for one man (my company is very very women heavy, likely due to combination of our CEO being a woman and being in a woman-related field). Before any discussion of who would take notes, or even that notes would be a good idea, the man volunteered. I’ve been thinking fondly of it all week.

  145. Career change questions*

    I’m currently attempting to switch careers from administrative type work (billing, account payable, contract coordination) to social media marketing.

    I’ve been doing this extensively for my own side hustle as well as volunteering as part of the two person marketing team for a local festival and doing some freelance digital marketing as well.

    My question is: on my resume do I only put my social media/digital marketing experience or should I include any of my current career (admin) history as well? I also have a LinkedIn that is just my current career (admin), should I delete my LinkedIn or add the digital marketing stuff as volunteer work? I don’t want my current company to figure out I’m looking for another job.

    1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      You want your resume to reflect the job you’re pursing, so yes, you would remove the admin stuff from it. Unless it leaves weird gaps and questions there. It sounds like since you’re doing this as a long term side hustle, that shouldn’t leave too much in terms of “But what were you doing before you decided to try this marketing thing out?”

      I cannot drive it home hard enough that sending out a resume with your variety of jobs does flag in a hiring managers mind. I will admit that when I see those hodgepodge of jobs resumes I’m like “So why are you looking here again, when you have so many different things going on over there…” and also the whole thing where there’s no cross over between say accounts payable and digital marketing! So it doesn’t benefit you at all, just like you wouldn’t put down your part time grocery clerking job while you were interning at a marketing firm, you know? So you’re on the right path here as far as I can see!

      Don’t trim your LinkedIn. That’s your work history, not your resume IMO. What I see there is different than your tailored resume showing why you’re a good candidate for my job opening specifically.

  146. JustKnope*

    I know there have been a few smell-related questions here but I need some outside perspective. I work for a huge company, and we hot-desk. I am sometimes between campuses/offices, but I would say 70% of the time I’m in one primary building. And even though we don’t have assigned desks, teams usually have “neighborhoods,” and as creatures of habit we gravitate toward the same desks. The neighborhood next to mine is taken by a team that I know nothing about. They might be IT or customer support because they wear headsets and take calls at their desks all day (fricken annoying but I wear headphones/move to an enclave when I need to write). One of them wears SO MUCH COLOGNE. Like, I feel like it coats the back of my throat and the inside of my nose and it lasts ALL DAY. He must reapply throughout the day because it’s just as strong at 2pm as first thing in the morning. I have a relatively sensitive nose, as my coworkers can smell it but it doesn’t bother them as aggressively as it does me, but seriously it’s strong. I don’t want to move away from my team’s neighborhood as I’m generally expected to be around my boss and coworkers when I’m at this campus. I’ve considered breaking Alison’s no-anonymous-note rule because I don’t know anyone’s names or who the boss is of this other team, but I think I may have identified the cologne-wearer. Any other thoughts for how I could get it to drop? I’ve considered hanging a sign in the area but don’t even know where to leave it. The smell gags me out constantly.

    1. Buttons*

      I am super sensitive to smells, especially perfume and cologne, I have had to leave movie theaters and get off elevators because my throat starts to close up. I feel your pain. I would walk right up to the person and introduce yourself and tell them you have a scent allergy and ask if they would mind not wearing it? I know that may seem weird, and awkward, but direct conversations are usually best.

  147. Frustrated Anon*

    The assistant manager that I work with is snarky and likes to joke around a lot. He’ll have the interns call me and tell me to hurry up as a joke. He likes to pit us against one another and cause drama. He won’t show up to meetings unless the boss is there. He dumps work on me- which my boss has called him out on, but not all of the time. He shirks other responsibilities as well.

    It all turns my stomach because I’ve dealt with this type of stuff before. I’m trying to take the high road and focus on my work, but is there anything else that I should be doing?

    1. Buttons*

      I am so sorry, that sucks. I had a boss that was always trying to cause riffs between people, I could never figure out why. I booked a meeting with those people and we discussed it, and we came to an agreement as a team we didn’t want that, and so we stopped letting him do it. If he said something like “you must feel threatened now that A has certification and you don’t” We would answer back with “Why would you think that? I love that there is someone on the team that has a skill I don’t have and am looking forward to learning from them!”
      We decided anything he did to try to cause problem we would ask him why, and then say something really positive about the other person. It drove him mad, and he ended up retiring early. :) We made the decision to be a team, despite a boss who didn’t want us to be. We were all so much happier and we got so much done, and when I took his position I had already developed trust and a role as a leader with them.
      Good luck!

      1. Tabby Baltimore*

        I think this is absolutely fantastic, actionable advice. I will certainly remember it.

    2. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      You’re painting this person way too kindly with “is snarky and likes to joke around a lot.” that seems like he’s just a goofball. He’s not. He’s actually malicious and awful, to his core. That’s not normal and it’s not efficient, it’s not how a manager of any kind should work.

      I’m goofy and like to joke a lot too, not at anyone’s expense though and not at the expense of the company’s productivity WTF.

      You need to make sure you tell your boss about everything and let the boss know it’s too much. Your boss needs to stop only calling him out sometimes and letting him slide others. I’d have a serious conversation with your boss about the fact this is giving you physical pain and stress to the point that your stomach is churning over it. You are actively harming yourself in that way, this is a bad situation that should be fixed or you really should start looking casually for work at least. You don’t need to suck it up and just take the high road. You’re dealing with a missing stair right now, he’s a big problem and shouldn’t just be stepped over and ignored.

      1. Frustrated Anon*

        You’re right- the guy is a creepy arsehole but unfortunately we have to work together. He and the boss are friends so I doubt anything will be done. Plus creepy guy is well liked by the rest of the clique so it’s lose/lose.

    3. Salty Caramel*

      Document document document. If you have meeting minutes, you can show your boss that he didn’t attend, for example.

  148. Count Boochie Flagrante*

    Just a vent, really. So, my current department is being decommissioned in a couple months. No one’s getting laid off unless we want to be — the commitment from HR is we will all be moved to different roles, unless we choose to take severance. The problem to me is that the default role everyone’s being moved to is a step back, and a step back into a role I held for ~8 months and loathed with a fiery passion. I’m trying to apply for different roles within my company, but we’re lean on hiring right now and the prospects of getting something before the decom date is… meh. Not what I’d like.

    There’s one role open that I’ve applied for, and it’s something but not really what I was hoping for. A small raise, a little more responsibility on paper, but pretty monotonous work and not as prestigious as my target roles. If it gets offered I’ll take it, which means committing to a year of doing that work, but I find myself grappling with the fear that the day after I say yes, a job I want will be opened up and I’ll miss out. But my risk appetite here is low and I’m not minded to hold out. Just facing the fear of missing out on something better. My mother, who’s very interested in my career, doesn’t think I should take it — but she’s eternally convinced that I could be doing much better than I am.

    I hate all this uncertainty. It’s tax season, I’m exhausted, and all my spare brainpower is going toward working on my licensing exams (and, as always, transition-related stress that’s just pure background radiation at this point) — I just don’t have the bandwidth to take on career woes right now. But bandwidth or no, the problems are there. It blows.

    1. Buttons*

      That is really stressful. Do you have inhouse recruiters or a talent team? They usually know well in advance what roles are going to be opening up and when. My TA team is very transparent and we actively help people look for new internal roles and help them career plan. Is talking to them an option?

    2. InsertCleverNameHere*

      Tough deal but I want to ask “which means committing to a year of doing that work”…is that a rule placed by your company? (You have to stay in a role at least one year before applying for a new one internally). Or a rule you’re self-imposing?

        1. InsertCleverNameHere*

          Feh. I’m just gonna be here in solidarity with “this blows.” Good luck!

  149. ELL_Girl*

    For context – I am a student employee who has to come into office hours unless I have one of the usual excuses, and in general, I am pretty flexible to work form home but there is a significant dynamic between me and other co-workers because I am the only student employee. Anyway. My boss is very sick and coughing/hacking, etc. He usually works from home but for some reason has decided to work in the office a lot this week. He usually stays away from my work space, but of course still needs to go around the cubicles occasionally, etc. So far, basically everyone in my office has gotten sick, not counting students within campus who have also started coughing up and hacking around.
    I am getting a lot of anxiety about this because of the coronavirus concerns and because I have had lung issues in the past (though I don’t look especially vulnerable as I am a young student). I will probably be ok, as I am not otherwise immuno-compromised but it’s still concerning.
    I don’t want to be rude to my bosses and of course have no way of forcing my school to close down. I don’t understand why people keep coming into work/school despite lots of announcements from the school clearly stating that people will not miss out on credits if they call out sick.
    How can I deal with this without being the person who quickly walks away when someone starts coughing in my direction? As I type this, I have heard 3 loud phlegm filled coughs in my work space.

    1. AnotherLibrarian*

      One thing to remember is you can’t control other’s behavior, only your own. So, I would focus on things you can control- washing your hands often, disinfecting your work space and generally practicing good work hygiene.

      Additionally, your company (university?) may not offer great sick leave policies and people don’t always have the luxury of staying home when they are ill. You say your university won’t penalize people’s credits if they stay out sick, but that doesn’t mean they are being more flexible with sick time. Students often get more flexibility from classes than folks do from working which I’ve seen play out on campuses during flu outbreaks and other things.

  150. Stormy Weather*

    Going crazy.

    There’s a task at my new job that isn’t difficult but has several steps to it and I keep making the same mistakes over and over. It’s frustrating as all get out. I’ve got a sticky note now on my desktop with the steps, but this is rather embarassing. I’m a fairly senior human, I should be doing better.

    1. Wicked Witch of the West*

      If the sticky note means you get the task done properly, that’s all that counts. Eventually you’ll remember without the note.
      Way back in the dark ages I had a cheat sheet for how to attach a WORD file to an email. I didn’t do it often, and didn’t remember from one time to the next. Windows was not intuitive to me.

      1. valentine*

        Use a sticky every time. Cross off what you’ve done. If it’s not to time-consuming, you could change color each time so when the first color is in front of you, it means you’ve done step 1.

    2. The Rafters*

      Don’t be embarrassed. Everyone asks me how to send an e-fax and I still have to look it up. Been 2 years at least. And some of my of my coworkers have cheat sheets for tasks they’ve been doing for years. Do whatever works for you.

    3. E*

      I do this, check lists for even basic tasks. Especially when I don’t do them daily but some are monthly. I figure lists help free my brain cells up to remember other things.

  151. Lux*

    We have about 15 people in our office and work pretty closely, so everybody knows each other and cares about each other. Started on Monday when we get a call that our bookkeeper has been not only indicted by sentenced for fraud related to one of her other gigs. We don’t believe she did anything and simply got caught up in the bad practices of her business partners – but it still instigated a panic as we had to figure out what to do going forward, and make sure nothing fraudulent HAD happened with our company. (Looks like nothing did happen, but it still required a check to make sure!) In addition to a couple people being out sick it made for an obviously stressful beginning to the week.

    Well, yesterday our coworker was out because her boyfriend just passed. It was a serious relationship, and sort of derailed everything with people worrying about her wellbeing, in addition to the number of staff who had met him.

    I’m emotionally drained and so glad it’s Friday.

  152. anneshirley*

    Hello all!

    So I got an interview for a fellowship (basically part-time editorial work) at the graduate school (history dept) I’m applying for. I’ve been in my job for a while and haven’t had to do any interviews for a couple of years. I’m going through Ask a Manager and reading interview tips, but does anyone have tips for grad school fellowship interviews specifically? Thanks!

    1. AnotherLibrarian*

      My big one would be to still treat it like an interview. Show up on time. Wear something comfortable. Have questions. Be prepared. I’ve seen a lot of grad students who seem to think it’s a more “casual” thing and mess up pretty badly.

  153. CoastEast*

    I have officially started my TAPS/transition out of the military classes! I’m intrigued to see how we are instructed to write resumes and do interviews differs from what this community–one well versed in the processes– says.

    1. Ama*

      Good luck! I hope you check back in and let us know what differences you’ve observed, as you’ve got me curious about it now.

      2. CoastEast*

        It will take a few weeks to get all the info as the class is broken up over weeks, but will do!

  154. sotired*

    I just recently began my first managerial role. I have two direct reports, and interns who report to them who are also on my team. They aren’t the problem. The problem is my boss. She is a rude micromanager, who doesn’t clearly spell out expectations, but gets mad when you don’t meet them. Today is the end of my third week here, and I am thinking about quitting. I can’t handled being talked to in the way that she does it. I just finished my first bathroom cry, after a morning of working on her credit card report while she is out at a conference. I am 24, and this job is in the field I’ve wanted to go into since I was in college. I am also making more money now than I ever though I would ever. But I have had a few crap jobs so far, but this one that I thought would be the best, but it may well be the worst. I know I have to talk to my boss. And I have been reading AAM for years, and bought and devoured Alison’s book this week. So I can do it. I am just so naturally conflict-averse and have the tendency to say yes to everything, which is making me essentially my boss’s assistant, which isn’t my job. She hasn’t trained me (or my direct report who started a week after me), but is making us do things we don’t know how to yet. I think I really just needed to vent. I am doing my best, and I am doing important work, and the CEO has said that she is impressed by my work. I know I am going to be good at this after the proper training, but my boss is going to push me out before I can even prove myself. But I won’t stay at a job where I’m treated this way.

    1. Leela*

      Quit if you have no safe avenues to HR/Grandboss regarding this, invisible expectations are a serious problem and they’re very challenging to overcome.

      I had a boss who did this to me constantly, and she trashed me to the entire company. I was constantly getting angry e-mails from people because my work didn’t do X when I was never, EVER told that it would need to do that, and my boss would either outright lie or act like I was an idiot for not magically knowing. I suspect that you won’t be able to do your best work here and she will hamper you from succeeding.

      Again, if you have a grandboss/HR you can utilize this might be salvageable but I’d say look ASAP!

  155. 2008Britney*

    venting for two seconds about my boss. He can’t login to a website. There are two ways to login. One is with a login you create using your email address. The other is with a separate login and password. Think creating your own login or using your facebook credentials…similar to that.
    Of course he claims both aren’t working but refuses to try and re-establish the logins using the forgotten password button. It’s so hard to know if it’s user error (likely) or not. But I can login fine. And I am currently not allowed to touch his mouse/keyboard due to possible GERMS!
    Just use the password reset, pal. We’ll both be happier. ugh.

  156. NeonDreams*

    I’m slowly coming to terms with not reacting when my employer does something I hate. It won’t change the situation at hand, only make me miserable in the process. People have been telling me this numerous times throughout this past year, but I’m finally open to the idea. Preserving my sanity is the most important thing until the next thing comes along. and that process is taking a long time.

    I’m still not satisfied (downright hate parts of this job) but hoping I can keep this attitude shift up.

    1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      I’m glad that it’s starting to work for you, even though it’s a slow process.

      Changing our outlooks on things and the natural instincts we have is hard AF. It takes time, a lot of time. But with work and patience, it can happen! I hope you get there all the way. It’s going to be a world of difference.

      I’ve seen people who refuse and stay stuck in that mindset, they are absolutely miserable throughout their entire life. It’s truly sad to witness as a bystander, I cannot imagine living like that!

      I hate things too of course but have had to learn how limited my control can be in certain areas. Specifically where others are involved. It’s easier for me to absorb the hit and change than try to wish them into changing for me. Kind of like you cannot just keep walking into the wall wishing for a door right there, you really do have to just go find the one that already exists and accept it is where it is!

    2. CoastEast*

      My therapist has often discussed the same thing with me– it’s not our job to react to/attempt to think for peoples lack of understanding or purposeful ignorance. Good luck

    3. Anonymous Hippopotamus*

      Could you please share how you are doing this? Because I really need this in my life. I can’t seem to find any balance between caring 1000% and being super type A and stressed about it, and not giving a f*** and just lounging about work doing nothing.

  157. De Minimis*

    Gave notice this week. I got a firm offer for my new federal job and will be starting that next month. Now to find a place to live….

    Just in time too, I like a lot of the people here but the wheels really feel like they’re coming off in my department and I can really see why turnover is so high throughout the organization.

    2. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      Maybe it’s how time flies for me these days but it didn’t seem like it took too long to get your firm offer! What a relief! I’m glad you’re getting out of there.

      1. De Minimis*

        It was pretty fast—not much longer than a non-federal job really. That was also my past experience with this agency…tentative offer no more than a week after the interview, and firm offer about a month after that.

        Thanks, it’s really gotten nuts at this job.

  158. Notfunny.*

    Tips for salary research when you’re moving to a new industry and the job names are very varied?? I’m struggling to have any idea how to approach this and only have a few networking contacts who are in said new industry. How do I make sure I’m in the ballpark??

  159. LastClass*

    For those of you who have carbon offset programs for work travel, how does it work? Reimbursing folks who choose to buy them? Done by someone central coordinating travel? Is this mission-related or are you in the private sector?

  160. Commuting Math*

    So, from now until probably November for reasons, I will need to commute about 1 hour to 1.5 hours for my new job. I’m just not moving until then. I’ll be able to WFH 1-2x per week after my first month. It’s a long commute, yes, and it’s 70 miles one way, so it’s not like Atlanta traffic where you sit in traffic for an hour to go 20 miles. So it’s definitely harder on the car when stop and go happens.

    This is what I’m wondering… I calculated the costs of commuting (gas, parking) with my 2012 Civic and it came out to about $200 monthly.

    And then I have the option of riding the bus, which is less convenient but I can do work on the bus or sleep! It’s $10 one way, so $20 each day. If I’m using the bus 3x per week, that will be $240.

    If I do a Vanpool program, which is not as convenient as a bus, it is $283 per month, but with a guaranteed ride home if I miss the van.

    But these are all more expensive than driving per month! I guess I also lose the convenience of a car, like going somewhere after work, but… maybe I’m forgetting something. Which option would you all do? (And I know the best answer is…not commute this long but again, not an option right now!)

    1. irene adler*

      Is there any kind of monthly bus pass you could purchase that would bring down the cost?

      1. Commuting Math*

        I’m going to check in with my new employer! I have a feeling for this specific bus, no… but they do have a cheap bus pass for in the city buses and free RTDs. So I could consider using that on the days I want to drive but not all the way into the city!

        1. valentine*

          I’d do the vanpool if the seating is more comfy and the guaranteed ride is better than missing the bus and waiting for the next one. You want to be in the best shape possible when you get to work and back home, so the commute doesn’t cost you productivity or have you going from car/bus to bed to car/bus, ever more desperate for the weekend.

          (No park and ride? I think mixing transport will just wear you down faster.)

    2. CatCat*

      Your cost of driving estimate seems really low. Are you factoring the cost of wear and tear on your car? If you’re doing 140 miles round trip say 4x per week after you can telecommute, that’s over 2,000 miles on your car per month.

      The IRS mileage rate may be a better indicator of true costs since it factors in average fixed and variable costs of operating a car. It’s 57.5 centers per mile.

      2. Commuting Math*

        Oh…. I didn’t know about the IRS mileage rate. And the expenses of repairs and oil changes! Ugh. Ok, let me do it by this one then, thank you!

    3. Seifer*

      I used to mix it up when I was going to school in the city. If I was in class from 8AM to 10PM then I would drive for the convenience of being able to leave when I wanted to and not have to walk to the train station at 10PM when I was dead tired. If I didn’t feel like driving, because omg sometimes the rat race was just too damn much, I’d hop on the train. I think doing it that way made it so I was able to go for a whole year without burning out on the commute.

    4. cosmicgorilla*

      I want to throw a non-monetary factor in for you to consider. Driving for 2-3 hours each day can take its toll on you. Even if you’re not hitting bad traffic, that’s still time you have to be focused and alert. The bus may be inconvenient and pricey, but there’s a lot to be said for being able to read, do work, or even nap for that time.

      1. cosmicgorilla*

        I just went back and re-read and saw where you were estimating $200 for commuting. $240 for a bus seems expensive by itself, but just an extra $40 bucks would be worth it…to me at least…if it saved me that extra toll on my body that driving would bring.

      2. littlelizard*

        Yep, I agree. If there’s an option to not do that drive yourself, please take it.

    5. Nita*

      I considered a similar setup recently (also roughly 70 miles one way, and limited WFH). And if the bus was an option, I’d have gone for the bus, no contest. I’ve never had a job where I have to drive every day, and I kept thinking: what if I haven’t had enough sleep to drive? What if I’m feeling sick? And that I was going to miss the only two hours in my day where I don’t have to do anything at all. Thankfully (I guess) the career move didn’t work out, but if it had, I think I’d miss a lot of things about public transit.

      One thing though – is the bus stop actually near where you live? I couldn’t take a bus because it would take me an hour just to get to the bus terminal from my house…

      1. Commuting Math*

        Yes, it is a short walk or drive from my apartment! Wow, I wonder if we live in the same state if we have that similar of a commute… But probably a coincidence lol.

    6. Not All*

      I would suggest trying both public transit & driving yourself to see what *you* prefer. I don’t mind driving at all, love having time alone, etc and am stressed & miserable whenever I have to share personal space with other people, be on others’ schedules, etc. So for me the only two choices would be “drive myself” and “rent a room for in the location & drive myself while spending weekends home”.

      Other people obviously would find the driving stressful/tiring and would clearly opt for bus.

    7. bus rider*

      I have an hr long commute via bus and I appreciate not needing to deal with other jerks on the road.

      However I don’t have guaranteed parking, so I take the bus so I can just have a routine instead of playing parking roulette which was my biggest headache.

    8. Brownie*

      One thing apart from costs is planning for circumstances specific to public transit on that long of a commute. When I did a non-stop 1.5 hour each way bus commute for 8 years I had habits like no water after 3pm because I’d be stuck with no possibility of a bathroom for that whole commute, longer if there was any kind of traffic delay. I had to have a mask or other scent blocker because of people wearing cologne or who smelled of smoke (tobacco mainly, sometimes pot). I’d always have to dress in layers because one style of bus didn’t have windows/doors that sealed well along with no AC or heat while the other style was not ventilated well and when loaded with people had a tendency to get extremely hot, even in the winter, and I’d never know until it showed up which style would be running that day. Most days were okay overall, but all of the above are things that you should take into account when doing the calculation. It’s not just cost, but comfort and medical needs too.

      1. Jeffrey Deutsch*

        Hear, hear.

        Also flexibility. When you’re using public transit, with its fixed schedules not to mention time between buses/trains, you will look at unexpected end-of-day work delays in a whole new way.

  161. Lives in a Shoe*

    I wrote a couple of weeks ago about an interview for a position with another team at my organization – it had been rescheduled and pushed like 20 days out. I think it went well; most of the interviewing team were people I know casually from work and think highly of for work. I would really like to have this job.

    Later, one of them said I seemed really confident. I hope that was a compliment and not shock that I was displaying unwarranted hubris. But – when I asked about timelines, they told me the beginning of APRIL. I know things move slow here; I know the culture. But OMG I want to know now!! And I really, to be honest, only want to know that they are hiring me ; )

    Waiting is difficult.

  162. Nynaeve*

    How to muster the enthusiasm to apply for jobs you wouldn’t even be looking at if your current job hadn’t taken a hard right turn into the Land of Suck?

    I’m an academic health sciences librarian. Over the past couple of years, the new university president and new library director have made decisions that make me feel like the library and my job aren’t particularly valued, so it’s getting harder to stay engaged. So I’m looking. I’m okay with making some kind of career pivot (e.g., shifting to general academic librarianship, health libraries outside academia) and while I could theoretically pick up and move anywhere, I would strongly prefer to stay where I am or move somewhere I have an existing support network.

    That limits my options quite a bit. There aren’t NO options, but some of them aren’t jobs I’m particularly enthusiastic about. It’s hard to steel myself to face the hours-long application process when my honest cover letter would read, “I am applying for [Position] because I could probably do it okay, you pay money, and I don’t want to move all my crap. Are you a hot mess? (Pick one.) [ ] Yes [ ] No”

    I absolutely know a lot of people have it worse, but UGH. Advice? Commiseration?

    1. AnotherLibrarian*

      Well, I would love to get that cover letter, but I won’t interview you with it. What I would recommend would be choosing a few job duties to highlight that sound interesting. “I’m particularly excited by the prospect of work with X and Y.” And then I often add a thing about why you might want to move there, not as your main reason, but as additional information. “Additionally, I was happy to see this position is in X, because I have family in X.” Or “Because I’ve enjoyed living in the Midwest and would love to return to that region.”

      My big question when I read cover letter is “Why do you want this job?” And so it is something you had to address.

      1. Nynaeve*

        To be clear, I would never send that letter! Even before reading AAM, I would have known it was a terrible idea. You’re right that I should focus on the specifics, since I definitely do filter out jobs that aren’t what I want (too much technical back-end stuff, solo librarian gigs, etc.).

        I did have one job I applied to that would be a promotion and a move to being near family, but most of the local stuff is lateral moves, so it’s harder to spin it as “I’m looking for new challenges.”

    2. new team soon too*

      Im in a verrrry similar spot. I’m looking for a new position that specifically has the things my once ahhhmazing team had.

      You have to sell yourself to someone to hire you, and your cover letter wouldn’t do it for me. Find places that value what you’re leaving over and get yourself excited to work there, then sell them your value.

      1. Nynaeve*

        Haha, oh yes, I would never actually send that cover letter! I know the types of things I have to write and I can do it, it just takes forreeeeeeeevveeeeerrrrr, especially when I can’t convince myself that I’m actually interested. Like, how can I convince you I want this job when I can’t even fully convince myself?

        It’s also hard to know from the surface what the job is actually like, since most position descriptions list job duties and not what leaders value or how the day-to-day work environment functions.

    3. Sarah-tonin*

      nothing to add, but I’m job hunting too (going from public to something that isn’t that). and also do not want to move, which limits my options too.

  163. MissBliss*

    Has anyone here worked in political fundraising, and if so… any advice for someone who has worked in fundraising in the nonprofit sector for years, but is considering a switch in a few years (lets say the 2022 midterms)? I’m concerned about work-life balance, job security, and whether I have any chance of finding a job that wouldn’t require me to work in DC.

    I’ve been scoping out jobs just to see what’s they’re like, and there are several that I would be interested in that are located in DC, but that would be an hour and a half plus commute for me and I’m worried it’s the sort of field where I’d be commuting 3 hours a day and working 12 hours.

    Any information would be greatly appreciated!

  164. Chloeoeo*

    Hey everyone! I’m going to do a super late update on my question (I’m #1, https://www.askamanager.org/2018/10/my-boss-took-away-the-tools-i-need-for-my-job-coworkers-on-speakerphone-and-more.html). My boss eventually gave me back my access and I continued to work there for another 5 months. During that time I was listening to Allison’s advice but trying to tough it out because it was a very meaningful non-profit. I ended up quitting because I was working approx 80 hrs a week and it severely impacted my health. To the point I went to the ER for stress related heart palpations. My co-workers and I approached our boss to express our exhaustion. She the told us “If you don’t like it you can resign”. We sat there stunned to which she followed up with “haha that’s just a joke”. I resigned the next morning. I truly take Alison’s advice with me as I’m still hoping to settle back into my career after a year of searching. But I no longer have stress related health issues & am so happy! Thank you to Alison & everyone who gave such good advice! (Ps. For everyone who told me to go to HR, our HR was even worse).

    1. Nita*

      I’ve been wondering how you’re doing. It’s good you’re out of that place. Good luck with the job search!!!

    2. A Simple Narwhal*

      Congratulations on getting out! Thanks for writing back in with an update!

      Also I hate people who pull a Schrodinger’s douchebag, that was just an awful way to respond to your exhaustion concerns. I’m sorry it go to the point that it was hurting your health, but it sounds like you’re in a much healthier place.

  165. Mannheim Steamroller*

    Minor update to my post from last week (https://www.askamanager.org/2020/02/open-thread-february-28-29-2020.html#comment-2875988).

    It has been officially announced to the whole department that Cindy, whom my wife hired and trained 10 years ago, is now her boss. Some companies of her very-long-time coworkers have commiserated with her privately during their lunchtime walks, but they’re afraid to do so in the office for fear of being overheard and labeled as “disloyal” by the new VP (who had also been promoted around my wife a few years ago).

    The job search continues.

  166. Princesa Zelda*

    Gosh am I late to the thread!

    For context: I’m a 24-year old woman who looks about 16, and I’m the youngest pre-existing employee at my library by at least a decade.

    We just hired some new pages last week, one of whom is a lady who I would guess is maybe in her 40s or 50s. She’s made comments on my appearance and age and even my book displays that make me really uncomfortable — I work hard to be taken seriously, and she seems to think I’m cute? For example, one day I wore to work a mid-calf gold skirt and a black turtleneck, which I thought looked polished and professional; she asked me if I had a hot date that night. I tried to laugh about it like “haha, yeah, with my laundry,” and she called me adorable. When I wore a cameo necklace with a different outfit, she came up and stared at it for like a solid minute before I finally asked “What’s going on?” and she just told me how cute I was and how much I look like “her girlfriend’s niece.” (Which, aside, I am openly and I think pretty visibly! queer, and I highly doubt she was talking about someone she’s dating, which also just rubs me the wrong way.) Even when I commandeered a stretch of floor to design a largish book display, she appeared out of nowhere and commented multiple times in how cute all of it is! Aren’t I cute cutting it out! Y’all.

    The trouble is, my ingrained response to things like this has been honed in years of customer service — smile until they go away and then complain about them with coworkers later. This lady is not a customer, and I need her to stop. I know I need to talk to her, but I just don’t know what to say in the moment, or how to phrase a bigger conversation about this. I don’t want to make it a big deal because our branch is small and we’ll be needing to work together for the foreseeable future. Help!

    1. AnotherLibrarian*

      When she says something like that too you can to say, “I know you don’t want to make me uncomfortable, but being called “cute” really makes me uncomfortable.”

      It might not help, but calling out the behavior (in a gracious kind way) at the time can really help.

    2. Kimmy Schmidt*

      Nosers gonna nose.

      I like the idea of a very bland response, such as pretending to be engrossed in your work, giving a noncommittal shrug or “huh”, or “you were staring, did you need help with something?”. Make it as boring for her as possible to make these comments.

    3. Buttons*

      I know you don’t want to have a difficult conversation with her, but as women we need to be advocating for each other and by calling you cute, she could be (and likely is) causing other people to view you differently. The next time she does it, tell her so. “Jane, I know that you are intending that to be a compliment, but because I am a woman who looks younger than my years it contributes to the struggle and fight I have had to be taken seriously in my chosen profession. Can you, please not call me or my work cute?”

      1. Turtlewings*

        I like this suggestion. I think your best bet is to help her understand WHY you don’t want to be called cute, since I’m sure she means it as a compliment. Otherwise she’ll just think you’re being weird.

    4. Jedi Squirrel*

      Ugh! I’m thinking the direct approach here. You need to set some boundaries with someone who obviously has some mothering/cuddling/coddling issues.

      Hot date?

      “That’s my private life; I do not discuss it at work.”

      Staring at your necklace for a full minute?

      “Is there a reason you’re staring at me?”

      Everything you do is cute.

      “This isn’t meant to be cute—it’s meant to serve our patrons. I’ve been creating these displays for ten years now.”

      Your tone is important here. You need to be friendly, but you also need to communicate that this is beyond the pale, because it is.

      Also, if she’s an actual employee (“hired,” so I’m assuming yes) why the hell isn’t she doing her own job? Maybe a redirect every time she does this is in order:

      “You’re so cute.”

      “Yeah, and so is that cart of books over there that ain’t reshelving themselves.”

    5. Fiona*

      Just to clarify, is a page like a volunteer? Or a docent? If so, I think you should definitely try the AnotherLibrary tip (“I know you don’t want to make me uncomfortable, but being called “cute” really makes me uncomfortable”) and then mostly just let it go. If it was your colleague or boss, I think you would definitely have to call it out explicitly because it can be really undermining. (I’m 34 and look ten years younger and have been called “cute” / “nice” endlessly so I get it…) But if it’s a volunteer, I think you’re wasting your energy. You seem really competent and smart and people will see that – you’re going to do great in your career and unless she has a lot of sway with your department, I wouldn’t get too sucked into this woman’s weird and annoying fixation.

      1. Princesa Zelda*

        She’s an employee. I’m a circulation clerk, not a librarian, so we’re peers.

    6. Nita*

      Maybe try something like “Ellen, I really don’t recommend calling your coworkers “cute.” It’s going to make everyone think you can’t behave professionally. I’d like you to start out on a good foot here and not antagonize people, so I wanted to give you a heads up.” You’ve been at the library longer than she has, you’re the one who gets to give her advice on how to behave in the workplace.

    7. blepkitty*

      Ugh. One of these days, I hope to have the guts to say, “Oh, you have a girlfriend? How long have you been together?” when a probably-straight woman mentions her “girlfriend.”

      I don’t have any good advice. She sounds thoroughly annoying.

      1. valentine*

        her “girlfriend.”
        She may very well be dating a woman, and I wouldn’t police her use of the word if she’s African American.

        1. Princesa Zelda*

          I’m not planning to police her use of girlfriend. But why would it matter if she’s African American? Is there some kind of added meaning beyond “friend who is a woman” and also “lesbians don’t exist”? This lady and I are both white, but it’s good to know when there’s cultural factors at play for the future.

        2. blepkitty*

          A. I would of course only say this to someone who shares my general ethnic background, yes.

          B. I meant to say it seriously, as in the way I really want to react, and almost have in some situations, because I thought I found another wlw in my life! Yay! (Which is terrifying because the white women who use girlfriend to mean a friend in this way, in my experience, are some of the least likely to be supportive of actual wlw, making it an absolutely terrifying minefield in the workplace.) If she really had a girlfriend, it wouldn’t be making fun of her (prying into her personal life is another issue, obviously, and mostly *this was a joke*). If she was using it to mean a friend, she’d feel hella awkward and probably think I was dumb as a brick, which is another reason why I wouldn’t actually do this, but maybe she’d learn that the word is leading to some confusion.

    8. Princesa Zelda*

      Thanks y’all! I’m definitely going to incorporate your suggestions next time this comes up.

      One of the reasons I’ve been struggling with how to phrase it is because the general sense of humor among our staff runs to deadpan superlatives, and I’m genuinely designing cute things — my book displays are for kids, so I want them to be bright and attractive, I usually use lots of colors and soft fabrics, etc. So the problem is a bit nuanced in that it’s not necessarily a problem that she’s calling me cute, but that she’s not doing it sarcastically as a part of humor, or she’s calling me cute and not the display.

      Belpkitty— Man, do I wish I was that brave! I’m not touching that can of worms quite yet, but someday, I hope.

  167. Everything I know about SLC is from Broadway*

    I might have a job offer to relocate to Salt Lake City area.
    I’m liberal and progressive, I’m a feminist. My husband is primary caregiver for our child while I work full time.
    I’m white, but ally to POC (as best as I can) – I live in a city with a lot of racial diversity.
    My city usually votes blue, but the state is red.

    I’m nervous about culture… anyone have experience or tips?

    1. voluptuousfire*

      I hear SLC has started to become a city with a surprisingly large LGBTQ population, considering it’s well, Utah.

      1. Everything I know about SLC is from Broadway*

        Yes, I am finding that as I google around and I just am not sure how much of that is real vs. marketing?
        How is the day-to-day?

    2. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      I don’t have direct experience, but a buddy of mine is from that area. He’s told me that there are “pockets of weirdness” (his words, not mine) but Salt Lake City itself is more like CurrentSizeableCity (which is fairly typical, semi-liberal, 95+% white).

    3. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      Blues in Utah voted Sanders! If that helps you see where their progressives lean!

      I couldn’t deal with SLC myself though. The “Church” still has too much pull and gives me too much pause.

      They’re pretty racially diverse! So I wouldn’t worry about racial stuff specifically. It’s the LGBTQ that has the worse time in that setting but they are getting better.

    4. Stormy Weather*

      I lived in SLC in the nineties, so much of my info is going to be out of date.

      There was a very active theatre scene when I was there. You could see a lot of different shows. Outdoor activities like hiking and camping and the obvious skiing and snowboarding are popular.

      Public transit isn’t bad. I think they finally got the light rail going.

      The city is much cleaner than some capitals I’ve visited.

      I ran into a lot of people with 1950s traditional gender roles. When I was 23, I was asked if I was a lesbian because I wasn’t married.

      The biggest bar when I was there was the gay bar called the Sun. I hope it’s still open.

      If you like gambling, get a bus to Wendover, which is right over the border in Nevada. It’s an entertaining day trip.

      You can get some great food. The Utah Arts festival used to be a lot of fun. Utah Jazz fans are often zealous.

      It’s easy to get a drink if you want one. The liquor laws have calmed down a lot.

      If it’s still open, get Vietnamese food at Cafe Trang on Main Street.

      1. Pebbles Bishop*

        Unfortunately Cafe Trang is gone, but it’s been replaced with a fantastic Mexican place called Chile-Tepin which has the best steak salad I’ve ever eaten anywhere.

    5. Pebbles Bishop*

      I currently live in SLC, and I’ve been here for about ten years. Honestly, the biggest issue I have is that the drivers here are insane – some of the worst drivers anywhere. So, keep that in mind. Whenever the first snowfall hits, it’s like the collective knowledge of how to drive in the snow goes out the window (ridiculous).

      However. I love SLC! There is so much to do – especially downtown, and up in the mountains. Downtown has a thriving art scene (the Museum of Contemporary Art is particularly awesome), tons of amazing food and theaters, there’s Hogle Zoo and the Loveland Aquarium, and while yes, SLC isn’t as diverse as some other cities, it’s also not nearly as exclusively white as it’s made out to be – it’s getting more diverse.

      If you’re worried about the Church, yeah, there are a lot of LDS people here. But there’s also an annual pride parade (there is a very active LBGQT+ community) and fantastic microbrews and outrageous Comic Cons. There’s the Church, and the very heavily anti-church people, and frankly, most everyone else is in the middle just living their lives. The only thing that might take some getting used to is seeing LDS church buildings everywhere (and I mean everywhere) and fancy soda shops (there are also bars, but since a large portion of the population doesn’t drink alcohol, these have been popping up everywhere).

      A couple things you might consider:
      – Are you okay with winter? Specifically, are you okay with winter dragging on and off sometimes into April? (If you love skiing, obviously that’s a huge thing here.)
      – I don’t know where you’re moving from, but in my experience SLC is built on a much more…expansive scale than other cities. Downtown/Sugarhouse areas are walkable, for sure, but for anywhere else in the valley a car is kind of necessary. Trax and Frontrunner are great, but not as extensive as they could be.

      If you have any specific questions that I didn’t answer, or just want more info about specific things here, let me know! I’m happy to tell you all about SLC. I’ve lived all over the valley and know all the good food and hiking spots :)

      1. KoiFeeder*

        Are we talking insane as in “road laws don’t apply to me,” insane as in “everyone else on the road is my personal enemy and I must win,” or insane as in “gonna just go over the curb cut so that I don’t get caught running this red light, nevermind that someone with a cane is standing right on that curb cut” sort of deal?

        1. Pebbles Bishop*

          Both of the first two, plus “blinkers don’t apply to me” and “this light just turned red but I’m in a hurry, so” and “I’m going to go 50 in the fast lane because [insert terrible, non-justifying reason here] and you can all deal with it.”

          Honestly, the 90-year-old drives are the worst. They go SO slowly. And of course when you’re stuck behind them on the 1-lane part of 13th East, that’s when a giant lifted truck gets RIGHT up in your bumper because you’re not going fast enough.

          Utah should really be called “The Road Rage State,” imo.

      2. The Man, Becky Lynch*

        Ah drivers when the weather changes. You should come see Seattle when it goes into the “rainy” season. It’s Seattle but yeah no not all year long is rainy season :P

        I had to deal with everyone freaking out when it was just a tiny skiff of snow…oh lawd where’s the bunker at, everyone get in it!

        And road rage state made me smile only because around here people are literally shooting each other with their road rage. I heard a guy got shot at for literally nothing on an interstate some mornings ago because you know, ef it, let ’em fly.

    6. Youth*

      I work in SLC, though I’m a member of the population you’re probably nervous about. :)

      Most of my team members at work are non-church members and pretty liberal. If you work for a bigger, more corporate company, you’re unlikely to experience much religious friction. If you work for a smaller, family-owned company, there might be prayers at company events and a distinct lack of alcohol.

      One thing that might surprise you is that there’s a huge Polynesian presence in the state. There also seems to be a high number of mixed-race marriages where I live and thus biracial kids. (A seemingly significant number of people I knew in high school have married people from a different race, mainly Latinx. And one of my close friends is half-Japanese; his parents met on their missions.) You’re bound to see a healthy amount of racial diversity, even if it’s not as high as you’re used to.

      Most people I know mind their own business and aren’t going to get in your face about politics, religion, sexuality, or anything else. But they appreciate you extending the same courtesy to them. The major exception is older adults, but I’m not sure that’s specific to Utah? I met a middle-aged German couple in Europe who were convinced I’d been drinking the night before (I wasn’t) and were shocking in their nosiness in a) bringing it up and b) persisting in harassing me about it. Possibly expect some of that from the older population.

      A lot of people have good intentions, but they don’t know how to converse about certain topics. When a friend came out to me as gay when I was a teenager, I had to do a lot of research because I just…had no experience with it.

  168. Hopeful*

    After 8 months of job searching and 4 months of unemployement (due to being laid off), I finally got a job offer! I start on Monday and couldn’t be more relieved.

  169. Salty Caramel*

    I just got this email. I figured folks would get a smile:

    Hi Salty Caramel,

    My name is Wendy, and I’m a recruiter helping to fill a contract role for a client in the industry. I should also mention I’m an artificially intelligent Recruiter. Yep— you heard that right!

    The contract position I am working to fill is for a Project Manager, Digital Web, Mobile in New York, New York. I came across your resume and thought that you might be a good fit for this role.

    My goal is to learn more about you beyond just a resume. Through a simple conversation, I can help you get in front of the hiring managers faster. My aim is to be your advocate, presenting you in the most relevant way possible.

    To get started please click the button below to begin chatting with me. I’m looking forward to meeting you!

    Happy Chatting!

    Wendy
    AI Recruiting Partner
    Powered by Wade & Wendy

    2. LunaMei*

      That sounds interesting. I would accept the chat just to see what it’s like. Maybe it’s like talking with CleverBot? CleverBot never gets my jokes.

    4. littlelizard*

      Hey, at least “Wendy” is honest about being a robot. I’ve had recruiters reach out to me with stuff that clearly isn’t for me at all, and I definitely wondered if those messages were auto-generated.

  170. Anonymous Hippopotamus*

    I’m sort of dipping my toe into job searching for the first time (both of my previous companies in my career reached out to me) and it sucks. Nobody seems to put salary on job posting , and those that do, are way way under what I’m making now. And this is a nationwide search, with me coming from a super low cost of living area. I’m kind of depressed about the whole thing right now. :(

    1. Buttons*

      Aww sorry you are feeling discouraged. No one puts salary in job postings, but you can google search the using the following criteria job title+city, state+average salary to get an idea of what it is in that area. Also, Alison compiled a list of job titles, location, and salaries that you can check. I can’t seem to find the link. I’ll keep looking, or maybe she will see this or someone else will have the link.

  171. Librarian1*

    Does it make any sense to get a public policy degree? I already have a master’s in another field and work in that field, but I’m a lot more interested in political and social issues than I am in my current field and I’ve been thinking of going back to school for that.

    1. Miranda Priestly’s Assistant*

      Not a hiring manager but I work in a public policy adjacent job. Usually these degrees are useful if they are from a prestigious institution and if you get substantial skills training relevant to the field you want to work in (like healthcare economics). If there is a way you can repurpose your existing skills/educational background, I would think twice before getting another degree.

    2. Buns of Cinnamon*

      If it interests you, I say go for it. I know someone who was in a management position at an investment bank who left to get master’s in public administration and then work in public health.

    3. Zona the Great*

      I too wanted to make that career change and had somewhat related master’s degree. I pivoted to jobs that dealt with more and more policy and just worked my way in that way. I’m not sure you could re-coup your tuition costs (if that’s an issue) associated with another master’s with the jobs available in that field.

      You could move toward a position in state government that oversees funding for libraries (if I guessed your career correctly) which will deal a little in public policy. Or the state advocacy group that lobbies on behalf of libraries or similar institutions.

  172. Jonah*

    It’s looking like my employer is going to go under soon. We’re making payroll, but barely. I’ve only been here for 11 months. After I started, they fired my entire team to cut costs, and I’m doing the work of four other people, some of which I’m probably not qualified for. I’m also back in school full time for the first time in years. I’m so stressed out that I developed a facial twitch a couple days ago that hasn’t gone away. I’m having a really tough time fighting through the mental exhaustion to even think about job searching. I’m taking a mental health day on Monday, which I’m hoping will be helpful. Any advice for finding ways to put aside all the “other” to focus on finding a job ASAP?

    1. CatCat*

      I’d let some balls drop at work. Be firm on what you can realistically do. No one can realistically sustain doing the job of four people. That’s just nuts.

      1. Buttons*

        THIS. Make a list of all the work you are doing and go to your boss and ask them to prioritize. Tell them you can no longer sustain this level of work.

  173. Foxgloves*

    So, I just got a new job within my organisation! It’s in a totally different department, nothing to do with the one I currently work in. I told my boss yesterday, and she wants me to work my full notice period- which is three months (I’m in the UK and this is not terribly uncommon). I did not expect her to ask for this, particularly as when I joined her team, she pressured me significantly to reduce my notice period from my old job- so this seems like double standards to me. Additionally, I’ve already laid out a plan as to how I can hand over my projects to other team members (i’m one of five llama groomers, who all have the knowledge and experience to take on my projects without blinking) or, in most cases, wrap them up ahead of my departure, but she’s really not keen on this idea of me leaving quickly. Is it typical for managers to enforce a long notice period for a move inside the company? I can’t help but feel she’s being unnecessarily rigid here, and it’s very frustrating. Any advice?

    1. Buttons*

      That is ridiculous. What does your new manager think of that start date? I would talk to the new manager and ask what they think and then go to your current manager and tell them what the date the new manager wants. She can’t fire you, does HR get involved in things like this?

      1. Foxgloves*

        New manager is aware that my contract says three months- it’s fairly typical in the organisation, but for 99% of internal moves it’s waived. New manager is keen for me to start in six weeks, which I think is pretty reasonable personally, and is in line with other internal job moves. HR are good at my organisation so I’m not averse to getting their advice on this too.
        I’m also contemplating floating the idea of job sharing my new and old roles for a few weeks as a transition but I’m not sure if that’s setting myself up for a very difficult time…

        1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

          I’m also contemplating floating the idea of job sharing my new and old roles for a few weeks as a transition but I’m not sure if that’s setting myself up for a very difficult time…

          Nooooo, nonononono, don’t offer to do this. And I’m hoping your new manager is wise enough that they would shut that idea down, too. It’s an internal move, the two teams should learn to play well together.

          Don’t sabotoge yourself in your new position by trying to split your attention like this. They’ll probably already reach out to you about your job, don’t give the more leeway to do so.

          1. Foxgloves*

            Great point, I hadn’t even thought about the impact it would have on my focus on the new job! Thank you!

  174. ADA Coordinator Training*

    I kind of impulsively signed up for the ADA Coordinator Training Certification Program (adacoordinator.org) last week because I am interested in it and everything. Has anyone else done it as an individual without already being a state/local government employee?? I’m working on figuring out what courses I need and where to take them (I’ve done the prerequisite course already and know where to do some others). One item I’m worried about is the conferences that have more of the foundation courses available — I’m hoping one of them will be within driving distance from me over on the East Coast otherwise I’m not sure I can attend one of them because of the costs involved. But we’ll see.

  175. Grand Mouse*

    Hey, hope this isn’t too late for people to see. My company is behind on paying me for two days of PTO for over a month. Been pressuring my boss, and feel like I am being difficult but it is about 200$ worth, and you can probably infer that if I make 200 in two days I am not exactly rich

    Stress about money is a huge downer, since everything that gives me joy and security is tied up in money.

    I am trying to get medical leave, because of the extreme amount of pain and pain and other weird symptoms like feeling feverish, I’ve have had for months. And it’s getting worse. On a short term med regime to treat it for now. But really stressed, because half of my job has quadrupled in work, while still having to be done in the same time. And I was hoping to have medical leave to get my health under control, and this will definitely aggravate it. It will continue into next week too. I don’t know if I can physically keep up the pace. It is a very physical job, and even with a shorter week (had to take two days off for illness) I am still feeling it hard.

    So, between lacking pay and struggling with health, and heavy stress at work I am not in a good spot, and looking for help from my boss makes me feel annoying, since some stuff is out of his control. Otoh, I think he has been dropping some balls, but I sympathize with how busy he is.

    Biggest priority is getting my PTO paid. Live in Washington, Seattle if it affects any advice, and would appreciate it.

    1. Grand Mouse*

      meant pain and fatigue instead of saying pain twice. brain fog is also a fun side effect of all this.

    2. Fikly*

      Well, in Washinton state, you must be paid at least once a month, for everything that you are owed. If you are not paid everything, you can file a workplace rights complaint. I’d either start by filing one, or if you don’t want to burn a bridge, go the route of “I’m sure you don’t realize this is illegal, but…”

    3. Kimmy Schmidt*

      Do you have a big boss, HR, or payroll department you can go to? This is a big deal and I would escalate it as needed.

    4. LGC*

      0) Seattle? I’m wishing you the best of luck.
      1) I’m not sure how PTO works for your company, but I know for mine it has to be filed before payroll is processed (every other Tuesday). When an employee has asked for back PTO, I’ve usually had to get on the phone with payroll about it and get it added to the next check (or had a check cut for them).
      2) This should not take a month! At this point I’d go to your payroll department about this! Your boss is either unwilling or unable to help.
      3) I am a bit fuzzy on legality, especially for Washington state. But there’s a difference between a company foul-up (like your boss didn’t submit the form) and a foul-up on your end (like you forgot to file until after the deadline).

      1. Grand Mouse*

        Do you think I’ll have to wait another two weeks? When I asked about it before this payday (this Friday) he said it would be added to this paycheck but it still obviously wasn’t. I let my boss know about wanting to use PTO for those days back then. I’d assumed it was automatically deducted. Since’s been over a month hoping it doesn’t have to roll over to yne next pay period? Again?

        2. LGC*

          Oh my god. HE messed up and he hasn’t fixed it?! I’m with WellRed, you should go to payroll! As soon as possible! (And if your boss is payroll, you need to tell him to do it immediately!)

          It sounds like you did everything correctly, so it really is his problem to fix. Or rather, the company’s.

  176. Me--resigned and hoping for a miracle*

    Well poo, I applied for a job that sounded okay, but it turned out to be one of those front-desk-AR/AP things. At least the employer arranged a phone call first, instead of dragging me all the way into the office to find out it wouldn’t have been a good fit. He was very nice — we talked about the limitation of my dyscalculia and what I’m good at and he mentioned they do a lot of reports and might want someone in future to help with that, so I sent him an editing sample, my portfolio doc, and the link to my online portfolio. You never know.

    Also, the optician at America’s Best managed to save me a chunk of money. Of course I can’t get the basic option thanks to my stupid eyes, and I needed back-up bifocals as well as contacts, so I can see to both drive and work no matter which I’m wearing. Thanks to her, it was only around $500 for both instead of $700. Bless her, I’m going to call corporate right now and tell them she rocks.

  177. Title IX Wannabe*

    I know it’s late in the day, but is anyone here a Title IX investigator/coordinator/etc.? I’m in an adjacent field (employment discrimination law) and would love to transition to a higher education setting. Title IX roles seem like my strongest avenue for transition in terms of fit with my background (a lot of my practice right now involves coaching clients through internal investigations, especially involving sexual harassment and discrimination), but I’m wondering if there’s anything I can do to strengthen my candidacy – are there trainings or certifications I should be taking? Organizations I should be joining? Something else?

  178. Formerly Ella Vader*

    Is “stress leave” an actual thing somewhere?

    Like, are there places that have policies allowing for something called “stress leave” that is different from medical leave in general?

    1. Fikly*

      I know someone who gets paid leave days that are called mental health days, as a separate category from sick days, or vacation days. It’s just a few a year, rather than a longer period, and I’m not sure which you are thinking of.

    2. Lena Clare*

      It’s sick leave for me. You could claim it as a disability if you could prove it’s a mental impairment that’s got a substantial and long-term impact on day-to-day activities (of which working is one).

    3. StellaBella*

      Where I work in Europe, this can be medical leave due to burnout. Or, in a few cases I know about, can be considered stress leave, yes. You go to your doctor and are evaluated physically and emotionally and can be put on a paid leave of absence.

  179. Unike*

    I advised my employer that I have a Grand jury summons in 2 weeks. the notice says it’s for a minimum of 4 weeks.

    Is it against the law for my boss (NY employer) to ask if I want to get out of going to jury duty and perhaps he can ask our colleagues in the Managing Attorneys Office if they have a relationship with this courthouse and they can help me get out of doing it?

    I feel that it was coming from a place of “this is an undue hardship and we want to see if you’d be willing to postpone” and since it came from my boss, the fear that if I say no, there will be a subtle change of how I am viewed. Or worse, he will say I need to do it because we are short staffed, and I’m not really given the option to say no.

    After reading our employee handbook, I see it also says “if your absence would create a hardship, the firm reserves the right to request a postponement of your jury duty”.

    I thought it was illegal to ask you to postpone? We are a law firm based in NYC with 1,400 employees.

    1. Morningstar*

      Is your employer telling you it would be a hardship for them or asking you if it would be a hardship for you? Do you know what their policy is if you do go (will you miss out on a month’s pay and can you afford that)?

      1. Unike*

        I would get full pay.

        When I told my boss about it, I think he was feeling me out for my response when he said he can ask our colleague if they have a relationship with this courthouse and can get me out of it. I told him no, I find this interesting and would like to serve.

        However, later in the day I heard him telling various management about this jury duty summons, so I have a feeling they will tell me it’s a hardship on Monday. So I’m just trying to prepare.

        1. valentine*

          It sounds like they want to do something shady, which says to me it isn’t a hardship. Because why not go the established route, instead of working your network?

    2. Fikly*

      It sounds like, from the handbook, that the firm is reserving the right to request a postponement, but that’s different than asking you to request a postponement.

      Also, if they feel it is causing a hardship for firm, they need to come out and say it, not make it your call. That they are refusing to do so is either bad management, or them trying to get away with doing something illegal by not coming out and saying it or putting it into writing.

      Also, as an aside, your firm using industry relationships to get you out or postpone your jury duty seems super illegal. If they want you to postpone, they need to do it the same way as everyone else.

      1. Unike*

        Thanks, good points.

        But I’m blanking – what is the difference between the firm reserving the right to request a postponement, and asking me to request a postponement?

        I agree about the industry relationships being unethical. Ironically, I’m in HR and this is the HR director saying this

        1. Please Don't*

          I took the handbook statement to mean that they may request that you postpone the jury duty. You make the official request based on them stating it’s a hardship.

        2. Fikly*

          I had read it as the firm requesting the postponement directly (as in, making the request to the court), rather than asking you to make the request, but the language is ambiguous.

    3. Auntie Social*

      Tell them that by the time you tell them all the lawyers you know, it will be “the court thanks and excuses. . .” and you’ll be back at your desk. Tell them they’re worried about nothing. I’m a paralegal and that’s how my jury service goes.

      1. Unike*

        Sorry, I’m not following. I actually want to do the jury service and feel it’s my civic duty

  180. Sparkly Librarian*

    Transfer comin’ down the pike! By the end of the month I will be in a new location, doing the same classification of job (it’s a lateral transfer) but in a much busier environment. I’m replacing someone who’s being promoted, my new manager will be going out on maternity leave the week I get there (so I might be covering some of that work?), and *her* manager just started yesterday (former grandboss is who hired me/approved the transfer). It’s kind of alarming to realize how much flux is happening with this position at the center of a whirlpool, but it’s kind of a compliment that they all thought I could handle it. I think I can, too. It feels good. I thanked the outgoing “me” for connecting me to the VERY complex calendaring system they use at the new location — it makes my organizational heart go pit-a-pat! — and she responded, “You’ve landed in the right place.”

  181. CC*

    I posted last week about a struggling employee who totally dropped the ball on a major project and then got very argumentative/tried to put the whole project back on me at 4:45 on a Friday. Just wanted to say thanks for the feedback and give an update:

    On Monday I called Employee to talk about the next steps on one of the projects he’d fallen behind on while dropping the ball on the major project. This was just a quick “the project lead’s boss who is covering for him while the project lead is on paternity leave seems a little confused about X, can you clarify with him?” conversation — not a feedback conversation about Friday.

    Well. He argued with me for 15 MINUTES about adding a line of clarification in an email that he was already writing to the project lead’s boss. It was bad. He was claiming “not his job,” etc.

    So I decided to skip straight to “serious performance conversation” the next day with three terms: no more missed deadlines, not arguing with me over basic direction on who to include in his projects and what to include them on, and taking ownership for his decisions. I told him if these three things didn’t improve on a relatively short timeline (I was specific about the time), I would be letting him go, and I also informed him that I’m revoking his work from home day. HR joined the conversation.

    Well — he claimed to be totally caught off guard. He denied there were any problems with his work, said I was misrepresenting the missed deadlines, called the arguments “valid discussions and suggestions,” etc.

    But, the flip side — his performance since that conversation has about 80% turned around! Seems like what it took was a little “this is serious” cutting through the bullshit to get him to really focus. He also had a meeting with our HR team privately where they were able to get him to be receptive to feedback that he’s always been highly resistant to from me (think “when you’re working from home that doesn’t mean you check emails a few times a day, it means you actually work the whole day, like, at your computer” or “when your boss emails you, you do in fact have to respond.”).

    I’m now going to introduce his broader performance issues to him on Tuesday and extend the timeline of the PIP to give him a little breathing room. I still think there’s a real possibility he can’t do the job, but I’d give it a 40% chance he can turn things around if he can sustain what he’s been doing this week.

    thanks again everyone for your input!

    1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      So did you address the part where he’s apparently been skiving off work one day a week for however long too, or just tell him he can’t do it going forward?

      1. valentine*

        Have a plan for if he’s faking it until he feels safe again. Is HR men and you’re a woman, or why would he treat you like a sworn enemy and listen to them? I’d rather exchange him for someone who’s way, way, way less work from the off.

    2. NoLongerYoung*

      You may not see this (too late) but… if you are 60% sure he is not going to make it, don’t change the PIP timeframe to be more favorable yet. It’s easy to pretend to do better for a week. But true colors will out, and I doubt a few days is proof yet. (It’s like saying “I’ve completely changed my character and I’ll no longer be the bad boyfriend…” and expecting you to believe that, in 7 days).

      1. CC*

        Yeah, I hear that. The thing is, it would be physically impossible for him to turn around the other elements of the revised PIP on the new timeline.

        I’m hearing folks say I’m giving him too much benefit of the doubt here, but he has dramatically and sustainably turned things around after “very serious conversations” a couple other times in his tenure. In some positions that would be more work than it’s worth, but in his case if he really just needs a talking-to every three months to get his performance back on track, that might be a worthwhile tradeoff considering some other things he does extremely well. I also really, really don’t think he’s trying to get away with something (i’ve seen this in other staff before and it’s the polar opposite of how I see him engaging with work) — he wants to succeed, he’s just early in his career and his “how to succeed at work” instincts are really poor.

  182. Director of Alpaca Exams*

    I was supposed to have a job interview today and it got canceled, so now I need to gear myself up for it all over again next week. Bah!

    Job-hunting is hard when you’ve been working at the same company over a decade and are now hoping to change careers entirely. But I’m so excited by the prospect of doing something really new.

      1. Director of Alpaca Exams*

        Thank you! The interviewer sent a really great message about the postponement assuring me that they’re looking forward to talking to me as soon as another time can be arranged, so at least I don’t have to worry that they’re blowing me off.

  183. Would-Be Event Planner*

    I know the coronavirus is making this a bit of a shaky time to be considering an events planning career, but I’ve been volunteering for science fiction conventions for about ten years at the organizational level, including putting together multi-track programming and negotiating BEOs (these are events of 500 to 5000 people put on by all-volunteer nonprofit organizations, not something huge like Comic-Con), and I love it so much that I’d like to do it full-time.

    I’m applying for really varied jobs, wedding planner and hotel event manager and whatever else looks even vaguely applicable. The parts I like best are the project management and turning a plan on paper into a set of awesome experiences for real people. I’m good at customer service and comfortable in just about any professional setting. Weird hours don’t bother me and I like to travel, though I have a young child and don’t want a job that’s going to keep me away from home for long stretches. I’ve been in the workforce for a couple of decades in a totally different field, currently making $65k, and would rather not start at absolute entry level, so I’m hoping my related volunteer experience plus my unrelated professional experience will be good for something.

    Any advice for how to break in, and for things to watch out for? What are event planning orgs and hotels looking for in a candidate?

    1. WellRed*

      No advice but having set next to our in-house event planner (eventually outsourced) there was more budgeting then anything. Also, at least in our org, the programming was done by editors. The event planner booked space, menu planned, special event and transportation coordinated, then mopped up bills and taxes at the end. So, that may make a diff depending on what you are looking to do.

  184. Anon for the moment*

    Rumors of us being put in an open office environment have been proved false! That is the good news. Apparently, you cannot do that to faculty at my institution (somebody found the relevant documents and it got around to the right people).

    The bad news is that they want to move my team into what we are calling the “murder suite” in a disused part of our building. They are cheerfully telling us to use our imaginations and how they’re going to paint and give us carpet, but oh my god, it’s bad. Exposed pipes, exposed electrical wiring, weird stains, plumbing left over from other tenants, moldy ceiling tiles, some of the ugliest cabinetry I have ever seen. The whole place feels like there was a serial killer squatting there and torturing his victims. They will fix the obvious OSHA violations, but I was told that most people would kill to have such “character” in their offices and that most of these “features” will be staying. He actually said of the room with the exposed pipes to “think of it as steampunk!”

    Thoughts on constructive responses that might get them to actually fix these “features” would be most welcome.

    1. Nynaeve*

      No constructive advice, but solidarity! Sometimes I feel like our university is one of those shady road signs tacked to signposts saying, “We buy ugly houses,” except substitute “ugly houses” for “old disused buildings we try to renovate on the cheap.” Our archives recently got moved to the latest such building and wow, it could have legitimately be used to film a cheap horror movie.

      Also, “think of it as steampunk”? Haha, only if you’re changing the dress code and paying for my cogs & corsets budget, buddy!

      1. valentine*

        most people would kill to have such “character” in their offices
        Looks like someone did! (But seriously. Never heard of such a thing for an office.)

        think of it as steampunk!
        We’ll be thinking of it as steam, punk, when the pipes burst!

  185. Miss Pantalones En Fuego*

    Any tips for applying for a “stopgap” job that’s wildly out of your field but related to something you did decades ago?

    My field is notoriously unstable and I got laid off at the end of January with no luck yet getting another contract. So I’ve been looking for other kinds of jobs.

    There’s a part time job working for the health service processing various kinds of applications and bills that I’m thinking about applying for. Years ago (and before I went to graduate school) I worked in similar roles, mostly as a temp, and I did do a fair bit of data entry and using databases in my own research. I’m pretty sure I can do the job just fine but for the last 20 years I’ve been working in archaeology. It’s a bit of a stretch but I could perhaps say that working with documents and data entry is a step towards working more in the area of data management, which is something that I do in fact want to do (but in my actual field, not health care). Any tips on writing a convincing CV and cover letter for a drastically different job? How do you deal with the reality that you probably won’t want to do it forever but you don’t have immediate plans to leave? One of the things I’m pondering doing is taking some professional classes at the same time, so a part time job would be great with that.

    1. Lena Clare*

      I’d apply for it as if it were a job you were going into as part of your career, so can you explain why you want to go into this field and what you can give to it with this change in direction?

      As for the cover letter or personal statement if it’s on an application form) highlight your transferable skills from your most recent experience; it might be helpful to look at tasks in the job description you’d be doing and relate it to that, and also relate your skills etc to the requirements line by line.

      I’d keep the past related experience, because it was 20 years ago, to the CV only.

      Good luck! It’s definitely doable but it’s hard. I changed careers after leaving my previous profession and being unemployed for a few months. What helped was doing some voluntary work in the area I was interested in doing. Can you do some voluntary work there at all?

      1. Miss Pantalones En Fuego*

        I guess the thing is that I don’t want to change careers altogether, but move into a different and hopefully more stable area. This job I’m looking at could be helpful but I don’t have any intention of moving into the health service long term. If I get it I’d probably stay for a couple of years but ultimately I’m looking for ways to make my true field better.

        1. Lena Clare*

          Oh I get that! But I think it might be better for your future employers to hear that you’re moving into this area because [reasons that make it look like you’re going to stay and develop your career with them].
          I hope it works out well for you!

  186. Disheartened counsellor*

    I got some really, really tough feedback on my counselling course. It felt very personal and I have no idea how to implement it to improve. I’m feeling really low and wondering if I should even be doing this course at all!

  187. Anonymous because reasons*

    I just completed a simple project for social media for my company. Well, they absolutely loved it, couldn’t sing its praises highly enough! The media team have been great about it and have kept me updated on what people are saying but the big bosses are all congratulating each other on how wonderful the company is and completely ignoring me.

    I literally got an email forwarded to me (not even sent to me directly) saying congrats to second big boss for putting the campaign together (she didn’t), and saying it looks great. They also said thanks to me “of course” as an afterthought, and called me by the wrong name.
    I do feel pissed off about it! Like, I put all the work in, and other people are being thanked for doing it because it makes the company look good. :[

    1. WellRed*

      Use it as an accomplishment on your resume if it’s that worthy while you seek a job more worthy of you.

      1. Anonymous because reasons*

        You know what, this didn’t even occur to me. This isn’t the first time this has happened regarding a project I’ve been involved in, so yeah I’m going to start looking.
        Thanks!

  188. matcha123*

    I’ve had an ongoing problem since entering the workforce at a young age. I am usually the youngest person in the office and I constantly have coworkers nit-picking and questioning my ability. It’s gotten to the point where I am seriously doubting my ability to function as a person.
    I do work in Japan, and I am American. But I’ve encountered these behaviors with other foreigners, too.

    I guess it’s possible that I am truly awful at my job. I can’t change fields at the moment, I don’t have the means to do that.

    Examples would be supervisors being very harsh on my work, expecting an inhuman standard and seeing any ‘mistake’ or deviation from what they personally prefer as another example of my stupidity. Having my written grammar challenged by a non-native English speaker, and then being told that my grammar is bad. Again by someone who can barely string a coherent sentence together in English. When I make documents, mine are criticized if I accidentally added a space between words, or the alignment is slightly off. But I’ve seen the documents created by my coworkers where the spacing is all over the place, the fonts don’t match, and words are overflowing out of boxes in PowerPoint presentations.

    I can recognize some of this as harassment and bullying, but I have yet to work in an office with people who are able to respect me as a person and who are also able to respect my ability to get work done. I’ve got a ton of self-doubt and I know that’s having an affect on my ability to produce quality work. I should add that I’ve been a minority in every place I’ve worked at, even in the US.

    1. valentine*

      The fact they can barely string a coherent sentence together in English isn’t necessarily because English isn’t their first language. If you address this with someone, focus on the problem behavior rather than the assumed source.

      1. matcha123*

        Sorry, I don’t really understand what you mean. These are not people with disabilities that would interfere with their language ability. I feel like you are trying to imply something that I neither think, nor am looking to imply.

        I work with people who are not native English speakers (not a problem); who have mostly never spent significant time abroad or in a foreign country (not a problem); but have decided that they are experts in English because their English lessons focused on English grammar, and because most native English speakers don’t learn English the way EFL/ESL speakers do we cannot explain complicated grammar usage in a way that makes sense to them, that we (I) thus have no understanding of English at all (problem).

        1. Princesa Zelda*

          Can’t help you with the rest of it, unfortunately, but a potential way to address the English grammar thing is to learn and deploy grammar lingo. Or, at least, adopt a style guide and cling to it for dear life. If they don’t think you can speak your own language, borrowing authority might help you pacify them until you can get another job where you’re respected for your skills. And if you can convince your company to adopt the style guide, even nominally, even better! Something to put on your resume. :)

          “Actually, a semicolon is the right choice for connecting two related independent clauses; I checked in the style guide to make sure, and it was correct.” “Geographic place names, like Eastern Europe and South Korea, *should* be capitalized in English because they are part of the proper noun. Check in the style guide; should be in chapter 4.”

          1. Thankful for AAM*

            My spouse speaks English as a 2nd or 3rd language. He is always citing grammar rules at me that I don’t know. But I do know when his construction (formal academic writing so it can matter) is not correct.

            I have taught myself some formal grammar to be able to talk his “language” on this. It does help when I do that but he often says, well, how would I know which you meant, Americans don’t follow the grammar rules! So sometimes you cannot win.

            Is there any way that culture also plays a role in the feedback they are giving you. Maybe this IS how they do feedback there at that company or area and it is not as directed at you as you think? I’m not there and you are but I wanted to float it in case it was not something that occurred to you.

            I wanted to say that I do know what you mean and you have my sympathy. I hope you find something better soon and that picking up some grammar lingo helps in the meantime.

          2. MissDisplaced*

            With these things, it can help to adopt the APA Style Guide or Chicago Style Guide. Using tools like Grammarly also helps keep your writing tight.

            And you’re right that if you’re writing FOR an American audience, there are some unique tweaks and phrasing differences that non-American writers don’t get quite right. I’ve seen this with my European colleagues when I read through their copy, and I sometimes make minor changes or word selections.

            But it sounds like you have much more going on at your work beyond minor grammar issues.

    2. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

      Just chiming in to say I can relate a bit. I had a supervisor who spoke English as a second language and she would sometimes correct my grammar and word choices, but she was always wrong when she did this. Most of the time she had forgotten about it by the next time she looked at something I wrote but it grated on me. I also had some people who were paying me to edit their documents — which they had translated into English using google translate — who argued about my changes, citing some dictionary or other. I suppose it was a cultural difference but using an obscure word that is technically correct but is so uncommon that even someone (me) who has a PhD in the relevant field has to look it up was perhaps seen as a mark of the author’s superior knowledge in their own academic culture.

      Learning the grammar lingo is a good suggestion. I never really did and have mostly stopped doing editing, but it might have helped in these situations.

  189. NorseMermaid*

    I have a question about resigning in a slightly unusual situation.
    I am on maternity leave, for a long time (in the country I live you can be off and they need to hold your job till the child is 3, and I have 2 kids so in August it’ll be 5 years since I left), and I moved about 2 hours away from my work place in the mean time.
    I’ve been interviewing for jobs nearby and I was told that I would be receiving an emailed proposal (I’m guessing he meant offer and language barrier got in the way).
    Obviously I wait till I get the offer but how do I resign? I don’t have a direct boss at my current job at the moment, so do I talk to the maternity coordinator? Email or phone?
    Thanks!

  190. Wendy City*

    Well, I got fired yesterday. I knew my performance wasn’t what I or my managers wanted it to be, but they had assigned me a mentor/coach I had been working with and making progress. Not fast enough I guess.

    I had been at the job all of 27 days. Which, on the one hand, is heartening because that’s an insanely short time to decide someone is beyond help. But on the other hand, how bad was I that they decided I was beyond help in 27 days?

    With severance and everything, I’m getting full paychecks until the end of March and will be receiving UI, also. With that bit of breathing room I hope to re-evaluate and do some informational interviews to find out if my current career is one I want to stay in.

    What are some tips or strategies you used to make the most out of unemployment?

    1. WellRed*

      I had a schedule that included job searching but also breaks. I often went to the coffee shop in the afternoon to make sure I got out of the house.

      1. Jeffrey Deutsch*

        Building on that, head on over to your state or local employment/unemployment office — where they have resources like job counselors, online search, books and articles, etc…and a way you can “go to the office” and hence get out of the house.

        If you get UI, they will probably direct you — in both senses of the term — to such an office.

        Good luck!

  191. Ginny*

    This is pretty much a vent, and an object lesson in how NOT to deal with an outgoing employee whose help you still want/need.

    Yesterday was my last day at a job I’ve had for 5 and a half years – three full-time, previously as a contractor. I managed the database and did a ton of things that nobody else at the company has/had any idea how to do, so they are going to have a rough time dealing with my absence. I gave two weeks’ notice, spent tons of time training and documenting, and told the person taking over a lot of my tasks that I’m happy to answer questions of the “where do I find X data?” type for quite a while. I even offered to find a couple hours to do some training when they hire a full replacement for me.

    My boss started to float the idea of my consulting for them, and I was pretty hesitant, but she put it as “we probably will have a lot of questions for you [no kidding] and I don’t want you to be working for free” and so I said I would consider it. In my mind I was very clear that a) I would only give them 4-5 hours a month, b) I would only be doing training/knowledge transfer stuff, not actual work, and c) I was going to charge at the upper end of the typical range for my skill set. And I never promised it at all, because I was waiting for a clear conversation about terms.

    In my wrap-up call, my boss mentioned that she was working on drawing up a contract, which was funny to me because she never once asked what my hourly rate was going to be. She also said “no more than 5 hours a week, although we might be willing to expand that” and I almost stopped her right there to explain that I wasn’t prepared to do more than ONE hour a week on average — but the connection was a little fuzzy and I decided to hold off till I actually saw this contract and could get any negotiation in writing. Then she asked, “How will we be able to reach you if there’s an emergency?” and I went “uh… … you won’t?” “But what if [platform] breaks?” “Call [platform] support?”

    So that all had me feeling pretty nervous, and THEN. At 2:47 pm on my last day, a colleague emailed me, with my grandboss CC’d, saying “hey here’s one more task for you, sorry!” It was a big assignment, something I’d normally turn around in a few days minimum, and I just stared at it with my blood pressure rising, until finally I messaged the colleague privately to say “I’m sure this isn’t your fault but WTF?” She said, “I know, I know, but Grandboss said to send it to you and said we had you on retainer after you leave.”

    At which point I just laughed and laughed, because no. But this is completely in character for this company/this exec, to just assume that what they want to be true IS true and to try to backdoor me into taking on a consulting task before we’ve even discussed hours or pay. It’s funny but I’m also furious about it… and of course I gave a hard no to taking on that task.

    ANYWAY I still haven’t seen that consulting contract but I’m pretty sure that if and when it gets sent I’m going to decline it, and if they fuss about that I’ll point to all the above incidents. I’m still happy to answer questions for my replacement, but I want all of us to be very clear that I’m doing them a (big) favor and can stop any time I feel like it.

    1. Rick Tq*

      Well done. Now it is time to block all their numbers and ignore their emails, not even for ‘a simple’ question from your replacement.

      Grandboss destroyed that bridge with his stunt.

    2. 653-CXK*

      I would have sent an email back to Grandboss and said, “It is my understanding you tried to assign a project about 3 hours before I was no longer your employee. I will not be completing this project; furthermore, I am declining any form of consulting to your company. I am moving up my departure time to effective immediately.”

      Grandboss can pound sand.

      1. WellRed*

        Ginny could have said all this upfront instead of “assuming” and hesitating and being “pretty sure” and “waiting.” Not seeing the hard no till after the fact.

        1. valentine*

          From their perspective, they are doing the favor.

          They: *offered five hours/week, with the possibility for more
          Ginny: …
          They: *think Ginny has agreed*

          They: *gave Ginny a two-day project*
          Ginny: lol, no

          Ginny, you seem to hold them in contempt, so why go out of your way to help them? Leave them to it.

    3. MissDisplaced*

      Ginny, this is outrageously presumptuous on their part. However, part of this situation is also on you my dear. If you had no interest or intention of contracting with them, you really should’ve spoke up on to your boss to nip that idea quickly!

      I’m sure you were just attempting to remain professional in your parting, but obviously they took your vague responses to help as agreement for consulting. Unfortunately with some people and companies, you need to be much more direct about things like this. Now, because you weren’t direct with them you’ve inadvertently created a bit of a pickle.

      You need to go back to them ASAP and explain that you may have given the impression you’re available for contract work, and you’re not because you’ll be much too busy with NewJob.

      1. Jeffrey Deutsch*

        I suspect Ginny only finalized her decision to refuse to help as a result of Grandboss’ Garbage Human Presumptive Maneuver.

    4. Jeffrey Deutsch*

      She said, “I know, I know, but Grandboss said to send it to you and said we had you on retainer after you leave.”

      At which point I just laughed and laughed, because no. But this is completely in character for this company/this exec, to just assume that what they want to be true IS true and to try to backdoor me into taking on a consulting task before we’ve even discussed hours or pay.

      Common tool in the Garbage Human Toolbox.

      On behalf of the rest of us, thank you for slapping that down.

  192. WellRed*

    “In your mind” is not the same thing as a clear conversation. Also, “pretty hesitant” is not the same as a clear “no.” Lesson for both sides. Ugh, also, “pretty sure” and “if and when.” Feeling a tad seasick from all the wishing and washing.

    2. Jeffrey Deutsch*

      My impression is Ginny really was on the fence until Grandboss pulled that presumptive stunt.

  193. Cranky Pants*

    Very annoyed right now! There’s obviously a fine line between explaining what you did versus being defensive.

    So, got an email from 2IC big boss saying he just became aware of ‘important issue’ covered in a report from my section and said the issue in the report should have been addressed immediately and he was concerned about the time delay.

    I wrote a 2 line reply email explaining that I had reported it to Mark who he’d copied into the email, and in my reply I asked Mark to confirm, and also said that I believed some action had been taken.

    So then I got a reply that basically accuses me of being defensive. He said it wasn’t about blame and not to take it personally.

    All I was doing was trying to give him the facts as well as reassuring him it had been reported. I then replied to confirm I had reported it as soon as I became aware of it, which was when I read the report myself.

    Any tips on putting forward some facts without sounding defensive? And any tips for the face to face conversation that will take place tomorrow?

    All this took place over the weekend. It was a genuinely important issue that I felt I needed to respond to when I received it on the weekend.

    1. Thankful for AAM*

      Maybe more of a, I did x, should I have handled it differently, approach? “oh, I did bring it to Marks attention and thought action was being taken. Were there other step I should have taken?”

    2. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      Try to think of the as 2IC Big Boss as trying to save face/backpedal from accusing you of not doing something correctly. Agree that @TFA’s suggestion of adding, “Should I have done something differently?” could soften it, though I would say you don’t have to soften it*.

      *I’m biased, since I went through something eerily similar. I had brought up an issue to the group twice, including my Big Boss, yet I was being blamed for “not telling anyone.” My Big Boss also backpedaled, claiming he wasn’t trying to assign blame (yeah, your tone and line of questioning just me totally lines up with that story).

      1. Jeffrey Deutsch*

        Hmmm…so “You’re being defensive” may = “Yeah, you were right after all but I don’t want to admit it”?

        1. valentine*

          I thought it was, “Whoa! You could’ve waited until Monday (and maybe Mark would’ve piped up first). This isn’t an emergency.”

          If he’s the type not to admit he’s wrong, there’s no winning. Letting them save face doesn’t erase the way they branded you. Receipts don’t work. They will either not acknowledge or turn it around on you and, because people only remember Drama, down the road, they will remember he said you were defensive, not that his reading comprehension was low.

    3. Cranky Pants*

      Thanks for your replies!

      I should have kept it shorter as per @tfa’s suggestion, but I wouldn’t add the question because I don’t report to him and I also don’t think I did anything wrong.

      I had the opportunity to speak to Big Boss (my direct boss) on this today who 2IC had copied in, he was good about it and accepted my explanation.

      @ATH and others I think you’re right, he was saving face/back pedalling.

      In the end Mark didn’t bother replying until very much later because IMO he thinks he’s ‘too important’.

      In the end 2IC discredited the report! Much preferring to believe their own fiction. Honestly it’s just too hard sometimes.

  194. An Anon*

    Probably no one will see this and I’m doing a ridiculous anxiety thing but…

    I forgot my gym clothes at work (we have a gym/fitness class during the week) … I’m sure I probably could just go to the office and get them right? it shouldn’t be that big of a deal? But is it????? What if something happens and I get in trouble!? Better off just getting them Monday when I get to work ….

    1. An Anon*

      I’m sure the answer is “it depends on the office environment” and “if it bothers me that much, check with my boss to see what I should do for next time” ….

    2. Thankful for AAM*

      You have to know your workplace. At mine, going in when we are closed would be NOT OK! Can you text a manager and ask to get them “to avoid a smell in the workplace on Monday?”

      1. An Anon*

        The stuff is in the locker room in the gym so there’s not really a smell issue that would impact anyone. I can get it Monday it’s just annoying because I wanted to wash those clothes. And my sneakers are there too so I don’t have them to go for a run today.

  195. Thoreauvian*

    Okay, I know it’s not Friday, but I didn’t want to wait until Friday to get feedback.

    I work freelance. One of my clients is new. I’ve only been working for that organization for a few months. Since I’m a freelancer, they don’t have to pay me benefits (and they don’t). This happens; most of my clients are the same.

    However. This client pays much less than I’m used to receiving, but I took it because I needed the work. Let’s say that I do teapot assessment. The client pays less per hour than I generally make for assessing one teapot. Not optimal, by any means.

    So, I thought I might get referrals from this client so that I would find other clients in need of teapot assessment, in which I have years of experience and do extremely well. This hasn’t happened. Instead, the guy in charge of the organization keeps criticizing me. I’ve done LOTS of work for the company, including on weekends and after regular business hours. I juggle this client’s work with that of other (and much higher-paying) clients. He insists on face-to-face meetings on a regular basis, even though the work can easily be handled through email.

    Boss contacted me today (Sunday), asking about a certain teapot assignment. I said that I had been unable to do it yet, since I was having trouble with a certain method of assessing it. Boss threw a fit (messaging, not phone call). Boss said he could do it in just a few minutes. Boss did it in more time than he said it would take him. I looked at the results. Problems. Several problems. I said it looked good, and that I would clean up the errors. Boss said they were my errors. (Not true at all; Boss changed certain things according to his standards, despite the fact that he is not and never can be a teapot assessor.)

    I finally just told Boss that I’ve done a lot of work for his organization, and that I get criticism for things that aren’t done, or aren’t done exactly as he wants them. He glossed over this. And he criticized me for something else.

    This is how things are:

    Boss tells me to do something, but goes off on a long, wild tangent without getting to the damned point. So by the time he DOES get to the point, I’ve lost track.
    Boss expects me to read his mind.
    Boss expects me to know how to do things I’ve never been shown how to do.
    Boss is insulting and condescending on a regular basis.
    Boss has taken to claiming that it would take him much less time to do something than it’s taken/taking me.
    Boss expects me to put up with all this for insufficient wages.

    I’m about ready to tell Boss where he can cram his demands. I know he’s a business owner; I know he’s under stress; I know he has a product to sell and needs to make sure it’s exceptional. And I’m more than willing to do my part to make the business a success – if I’m treated well. If Boss treats me as though I’m unimportant, I’m less motivated to do well. I do the best I can, but that’s not been enough for him. I’ve done so much high-quality work, and instead of thanking me for it, he zeroes in on what hasn’t been done exactly according to his liking, even though he doesn’t specify what it is he wants/needs.

    I’m about ready to walk. What are your thoughts?

    1. Jeffrey Deutsch*

      Speaking as a former solopreneur…the cheapest clients tend to be the most demanding and the most unreasonable.

      And you do not want referrals from those clients, because they tend to come with a tag: “Here’s another desperate freelancer who’ll work cheap and take all your crap.”

      Assuming that particular client isn’t spelling the difference between you and your family eating or not eating, I’d give sufficient notice to complete everything you’ve already committed to. And make clear your departure is not negotiable.

      Good luck!

      1. valentine*

        Walk. I’m amazed you stayed so long and worked as hard as if you were the business owner. All that time working without pay, essentially, would have been better spent just sitting outside or looking/working for other clients.

        The biggest issue is you see this person as your boss instead of the SOP client (from hell!). Change that mindset and don’t accept less unless you can match it with less output. You’ve got to look at the big picture and include all the costs, including the cost of not spending your time the way you want.

        (And include meetings, timelines, and number of revisions in your contracts going forward.)

        1. Thoreauvian*

          Thanks for both replies!

          I want to clarify a few things. I reread my original post and I can now see (it was written in the heat of anger) that it looks as if I’ve worked more than I have. This is a part-time gig. However, given that I do have other clients and I have to do such things as buy groceries, go to doctors’ appointments, and go to interviews, I do the work for this client when I have the time. It isn’t that I’ve put in lots of hours per week (I haven’t). It’s that I’ve done work for this client that can and will be used after my departure. It’s high-quality. And it’s all he’ll be able to get. Someone at the organization told me that there were no other qualified applicants, and that doesn’t surprise me – anyone else would ask for a lot more money.

          There is no contract, just an agreement that I would do this work, it would be part-time, etc. Oh, and my invoice was paid late because nobody told me how it worked around there – I had to wait for someone to confirm my hours, then I could issue an invoice, but nobody told me that, or where I could send the invoice. At least that was paid quickly (once I knew that I could send it).

          Oh, and Boss (I refer to him as such because he’s the head of the organization and he’s bossy, not because I view him as my boss) has mentioned me quitting more than once. “Some people quit soon.” Or, “You have another job? Are you quitting?”

          I don’t know if he’s trying to force me out, or if he’s gauging my reaction. He’s only agreeable when we talk on the phone or in person. In written form, he really lets loose. I think this is because if he’s talking to me, he knows other people will hear him. In writing? Nobody is going to stand there, looking over his shoulder and reading what he has to say.

          The organization has a good product, and one in which I’m interested, but forget it – I’ll never purchase anything from them.

  196. Duchess of Buffonia*

    It’s Sunday, and I am not sure how many folks still check the open thread, but I could use some advice. Due to family issues, it looks like I will need to move out-of-state in the next few months even without another job lined up. That is not ideal, but I don’t know if it can be helped. My question is about how much notice to give at my job. My boss knows about the family issues, and I think has been wondering if I am going to need to leave. However, my boss and I don’t get along especially well. We are just different people. I am also unhappy in my job. It is not a good fit for me. However, I still care about the company and don’t want to leave them in the lurch with projects. We recently lost a critical team member, and I am taking over some of their work. So me leaving would be a big gap in the company. When I’m looking to leave would coincide with the end of a couple of projects in which I have a leadership role.

    My question is how much notice should I provide, given the circumstances. I feel conflicted. If I give too much notice (like tell my boss in the next week or so), will he push me out sooner? But longer notice would allow for a smooth transition and them to hire someone else, have them trained, etc. Other staff who have resigned have not been pushed out earlier or treated badly on their way out.

    I could use some advice. Thanks.

      1. valentine*

        Give them two weeks. Staffing problems are theirs; they don’t get to make them yours.

    2. Jeffrey Deutsch*

      Given that others who have resigned were treated all right, I would err on the side of longer notice. They’d be unlikely to want you to leave before the end of the projects you mentioned anyway.

      Good luck!

  197. Leona*

    I see that many people are talking about coronavirus. I have another question related to it.

    I am someone with several autoimmune illnesses including asthma, and my family is talking to me about staying at home and not going out very much at all anymore for a while. In fact, they are wanting me to delay getting a new job as I just resigned from my previous 2 weeks ago. They are concerned about the pandemic. And because there have been 8 diagnosed cases, my family is very concerned. I understand and am concerned myself, but I can’t just not work. While I would be able to ride it out financially, I can’t imagine explaining this gap to a future employer, much less in combination with all the other gaps my resume has. I have never been fired from a job, I just had a hard time coming to grips with the idea that you sometimes can’t just quit your job when you don’t like your boss.

    Anyway… I’m not suggesting going out to vulnerable areas (I am a licensed social worker) and large crowds just because I can’t explain a gap. But I don’t know if my family is overreacting or I’m underreacting, given my plethora of illnesses.

    Am I gaslighting myself thinking it’s not as big a threat?? I also don’t know that I could work a job from home in the social services.

    1. Leona*

      Additionally the place that I’m waiting to hear from is in the very area where the 8 people with coronavirus are. So my parents are just a little freaked by it.

      1. valentine*

        I wouldn’t do it, especially when your job would involve so much contact with random people.

        1. Leona*

          The number in my area apparently went up to 11 today. so…. I’m thinking I might just hold off for a few months to see how things go nationally.

    2. fhqwhgads*

      It’s a choice for you to make based on what you know of your own health and the current situation where you live, which if you’re in the US…is not really much since the tests aren’t being as rapidly and widely distributed as they probably should be – and the gov has openly admitted to trying to do things that will artificially lower the confirmed numbers – so whatever it is in your area is probably higher, but there’s no way to know. So that’s something factor into your considerations.
      All that said, if your primary concern is the gap…how long is your family suggesting/are you considering “riding it out”? If you left your last position two weeks ago, it’s very reasonable it might take a few months to find a new job. I know you said you’re concerned about other gaps but a few months between jobs is sometimes just what it takes? And not necessarily a red flag. Especially if you’ve got a health-related explanation associated with the outbreak, if you’re talking about delaying your search maybe a month or two and seeing where things stand that might be worth it to you. Virus-wise things also might be worse by then and you might need to isolate for your health at that point anyway. So it might be more a question of trying to predict the unpredictable.
      I think if I were in your shoes I’d probably try to discuss it with my PCP rather than considering my family’s opinions, unless I were related to epidemiologists or respiratory specialists.

  198. Stormy Weather*

    I lived in SLC in the nineties, so much of my info is going to be out of date.

    There was a very active theatre scene when I was there. You could see a lot of different shows. Outdoor activities like hiking and camping and the obvious skiing and snowboarding are popular.

    Public transit isn’t bad. I think they finally got the light rail going.

    The city is much cleaner than some capitals I’ve visited.

    I ran into a lot of people with 1950s traditional gender roles. When I was 23, I was asked if I was a lesbian because I wasn’t married.

    The biggest bar when I was there was the gay bar called the Sun. I hope it’s still open.

    If you like gambling, get a bus to Wendover, which is right over the border in Nevada. It’s an entertaining day trip.

    You can get some great food. The Utah Arts festival used to be a lot of fun. Utah Jazz fans are often zealous.

    It’s easy to get a drink if you want one. The liquor laws have calmed down a lot.

    If it’s still open, get Vietnamese food at Cafe Trang on Main Street.

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