my over-eager coworker takes over my work and is running roughshod over me

A reader writes:

I was hired to my company about four months ago and I’m already struggling on how to deal with my over-eager teammate, Jon.

Some background: I was told during the hiring process that the company expected to hire two specialists, one of which would take the job of an employee who was failing their PIP. Turns out, Jon was that employee and he managed to turn his work around in the final hour, passed his PIP and was kept on (I was given the second specialist spot). To my knowledge, Jon has no idea that I was initially hired to take his job.

Jon is just inherently a super friendly guy and, before we went remote under our state’s stay-at-home order, he was frequently at my desk get to know me or offer advice. There were a couple of incidences early on where I felt he was checking in on me more than he needed to – coming to my desk to question something I wrote in an email, remarking how late I stayed or if I logged in after hours, interrupting my training sessions with our boss for unimportant, non-work reasons etc. It was annoying but I assumed he would relax a bit once we were all settled in.

Unfortunately, a couple months later (and while we were all working remotely), we found out that our boss Dany had fired the third specialist on our team for “not being proactive enough.”

Since then, I feel like Jon’s behavior has gotten even worse. Jon inserts himself into everything. He is the first to volunteer for new projects, even the few simple ones that I could take on with my limited training. When I do have to ask his advice on how to handle a particular problem, he accesses my files to solve it for me. When I set up a project for myself to work on, I’ll come back to see he has completed it. And when Dany sends out any email to the two of us, Jon is the first to respond and bombards the thread with multiple messages with new ideas, examples etc. Even in our team calls, Jon talks over me and has even explained my own ideas back to me as his own.

None of these things are horrible on their own but, taken together, it’s exhausting. Just now, a company director sent our team an update about one of our projects but failed to specify which one. The project was mine and I recognized the info instantly so I sent my team a quick email, letting them know I would take care of it. In response, Jon told me he had already emailed the director with questions but was happy to see my “nice thinking!”

Frequently, I feel angry at myself for not being faster or knowing more, even when I feel like Jon is going way overboard. I feel like he’s doing whatever he can to prove himself. And, for what it’s worth, I totally feel pressure too! It’s actually pretty scary to work a new job where your only teammates were about to be fired or were fired during a global pandemic with widespread job insecurity! While I have had overall good reviews so far, it’s been really hard to learn the job remotely and I’ve made plenty of mistakes. Despite my efforts to be patient with myself, I feel like I’m competing against RoboCop.

I know it’s not Jon’s job to slow down for my benefit and the company probably loves to see the effort he is putting in. So, what can I do to deal with this?

I actually wouldn’t assume your company loves this. Maybe they do, but this type of behavior can be just as annoying to a manager as it is to coworkers.

But it’s a pretty safe assumption that Jon’s behavior is a reaction to his PIP and near job loss, plus the other specialist being fired for not being proactive enough. Jon seems determined to ensure no one will be able to say that about him.

And that’s fine! He can go overboard on proactivity if he wants, and that’s between him and his manager — except for where he’s treading on your toes, which he’s doing a lot of.

If you haven’t directly told him to stop yet, you’ve got to do that — and it’s possible that will solve most of this. Specifically:

* When he completes a project that yours, address that with him! That’s a huge overstep and you can tell him so. Say, “I set this up for myself and came back to see that you had completed it. Why did you do that?” and, “I don’t want you taking over my work. Please don’t work on my projects without clearing it with me first. You won’t have all the context, and frankly it makes me look really bad. I don’t know if you realized that.”

* When he talks over you on team calls, say, “I’d like to finish what I was saying” and “You’re interrupting me — please let me finish.” (Most people will be shamed into backing off if you say that, at least for that call. You may need to say it again on the next one.)

* When he offers your ideas as his own, say this; “Yes, that is what I was just suggesting” or “Let me jump in here since I’d proposed the idea originally. My thinking on this is…” (More suggestions for language are here and here.)

* Stop asking for his advice if you can at all avoid it. If you can’t avoid it, then explicitly say, “In the past when I’ve asked for your advice on this kind of thing, you’ve gone into my files and solved it for me. I want to be clear that I don’t want you to do that again. I will be resolving this myself. What I’m asking you about is ____.”

* If he jumps into email conversations about your projects, be assertive about taking them back: “This is a project I’m already working on, so I’m going to take the lead here.” And if he has already emailed a third party about it: “I’ll let Jane know to disregard the email you sent since I’m the lead on this.”

* Tell Dany that you’re interested in taking on new projects but Jon tends to volunteer for them before you have a chance, and ask if she’d be willing to assign some directly to you.

It might also make sense to talk to Jon about the pattern you’re seeing — as in, “You’re putting so much energy into covering things that you’re taking over my work and making me look less capable. Can you please be more careful about leaving my projects to me?”

It’s possible that if you point out that he’s stepping on your toes, he’ll back off. It’s also possible that he knows this makes you look bad and he’s settled on that as a job security strategy — but it’s more likely that he’s just pushing as much as he can because he hasn’t been called out on it, and that when you push back, he’ll rein it in. But if he is doing it on purpose and with full knowledge of its impact on you, that conversation will make that clearer to you, and you’ll know it’s extra important for to you to be vigorous about asserting yourself.

Right now, though, it sounds like you haven’t really pushed back much at all. Do that, and you’ll have a much better idea of how much energy this guy will take to work near.

{ 143 comments… read them below }

  1. Littorally*

    I hope we get an update for this one! I’d love to hear how things work out, and whether John is going to burn himself the heck out in short order going so overboard.

      1. Xavier Desmond*

        My instinct is to be annoyed at Jon too but with him just coming off a PIP I would probably give him a little bit of a pass. Saying that if the OP pushes back and he continues to act like a bellend then my sympathies for him would end.

        1. SarahKay*

          I would give him more of a pass if he weren’t talking over OP and presenting OP’s ideas as his own. PIP or no PIP, I find that pretty unforgivable.

      2. Suzy Q*

        Jon is the type of person who, if I saw him being mauled by a tiger, I might delay calling 911.

        1. Legal Beagle*

          Because you’d need to put on your EMS jacket first, for the cameras? (Sorry, couldn’t resist.)

      3. I Wrote This in the Bathroom*

        While I don’t envy OP for having to deal with Jon, I don’t really have it in me to hate him, because I don’t know how I would behave with an axe hanging permanently over my head. After he narrowly dodged failing a PIP, his teammate was fired for not being proactive and he thinks he’ll be next, unless he becomes the most proactive employee that ever lived. I do kind of hate OP’s work environment though. It’s like GE on steroids. Instead of the bottom 10% getting fired at the end of every year, it seems that, on OP’s team, no one is safe.

        1. Cobol*

          Yeah. OP is in the right, but I can’t fault Jon. It sounds like your company’s culture leads to desperation.

  2. Marie*

    Oh wow, this information is super helpful to me! I kinda wish I had it a couple of months ago, actually. I am just now rolling off of a project with a colleague who is almost exactly like Jon, although my colleague’s motivation was that they always want to be the smartest person in the room. I struggled so hard for many months to figure out how to speak up in the moment and eventually just decided that if my colleague wanted to stress out and do all of the work (despite me, our account manager, and the project lead telling him to share the load) then so be it.

    1. Crooked Bird*

      Ever since Hamilton people like that always set me unconsciously humming that bit from the song “Non-Stop.” “Why do you assume you’re the smartest in the room? Why do you assume you’re the smartest in the room? Soon that attitude may be your doom…”
      Wonder what would happen if the person twigged to what I’m humming…

  3. Pippa K*

    “None of these things are horrible on their own“

    Oh, but they are! I think you’re being pretty generous in your take on this. Which is admirable, but you’ve plenty of room to be more assertive and less tolerant here.

    But then, I firmly believe that “he explained my own ideas back to me as his own” should be an affirmative defence to most criminal charges, so.

    1. LivetoRead*

      And, I think that eventually she may have to take this to her manager. If a co worker is continually and repeatedly doing things that cause the OP to look bad, she has to address this. I agree with trying what is said first, but it may take more.

    2. Fake Old Converse Shoes (not in the US)*

      I had a team leader who explained my own previous work to me. Even if I was away from the project for a year, before leaving I had authored 70% of it. I was anything but pleased.

    3. TootsNYC*

      But then, I firmly believe that “he explained my own ideas back to me as his own” should be an affirmative defence to most criminal charges, so.

      “He had it coming…”

    4. Lana Kane*

      I came to say this, exactly. Those individual behaviors ARE terrible on their own. Being gracious about it will harm OP, not help.

      From a manager’s perspective: I try to be in the loop on the day to day work as much as I can, but as I’m not actually *in it* all day the way that my reports are, there are patterns of behavior I won’t naturally see on my own. I ask staff to tell me when something is up that I seem to not have noticed yet. If I were managing Jon and the OP, it’s very possible I would have noticed Jon being overeager, but not necessarily that he was poaching work if I didn’t specifically assign it to OP. What would likely occur: 1) If I didn’t know that OP had set aside the projects for herself (say, she did it on her own), I might think they were Jon’s, and then 2) I’d have to be concerned about OPs output, take the time to have A Conversation, and THEN find all this out. I would not be happy about that.

      OP, I agree 100% with Alison’s scripts, and that it’s time to talk to your supervisor to mention this pattern of behavior. Ask for their support in preventing the poaching from happening – either assigning you work directly and publicly, or setting up a team process where staff loops in the team on their projects (with the understanding that you’ve essentially called dibs). If I were the supervisor here this would be a red flag to me, personally, that I need to be more involved in the assignment of work.

    5. Karia*

      All these things are horrible. He’s stealing her ideas, taking over her work, undermining her to her team and bosses, patronising her on a regular basis and talking over her. These things are *appalling* even taken individually.

    6. Escapee from Corporate Management*

      I agree. OP, it sounds like you are trying to be the nice person here. That just opens you up to being steamrolled by John because he is probably seeing this as agreeing to his individual bad behaviors. Alison’s advice is spot-on: be direct without making it personal.

      1. Legal Beagle*

        Yes! You need to be professional, of course, but you don’t need to be nice. It’s okay to rock the boat here.

    7. Jedi Squirrel*

      Going to add my voice of agreement here. As I was reading the paragraph preceding “None of these things are horrible on their own” I was thinking the exact opposite: these are all horrible on their own.

      Jon needs to sit down.

  4. Anon Anon*

    This definitely seems like a job security strategy to me. Especially if Jon was previously on a PIP, another person has already been fired, and if there is any chance that there may be layoffs. He may be trying to set himself up as someone who can handle both of your work, so if the employer does layoffs they will pick the OP. And unfortunately, there are some employers who won’t find his behavior annoying.

    And depending on Jon’s level of insecurity he might not be able to recognize that jumping in and inserting himself really isn’t a helpful thing, even if you do say something. So it may be something that you need to discuss with your boss if after you’ve pushed back for awhile nothing changes.

    1. Ashley*

      I agree. I question how long he is able to maintain the pace and how many hours he is working.

      1. Sparrow*

        I’m also super curious about the quality of his work. Of course we don’t know the reason he was on a PIP in the first place, but I would be a bit surprised if he went from PIP-quality work to doing an amazing job on everything, including work that’s not even his own. I definitely wonder if he will eventually be shooting himself in the foot by doing this. But OP shouldn’t wait around and hope that will happen! She needs to say something. If she thinks it will help, she can give him an out by framing it as, “I appreciate you helping me transition into the role, but…”

        And I’d probably also flag it for my boss (in a “FYI, I’m seeing this pattern and here’s how I’m dealing with it” kind of way) because I would also be worried about this reflecting poorly on me if my boss didn’t know the full story.

        1. Paulina*

          Given that the OP is new, and he’s both interrupting her training and grabbing the more limited projects the OP could complete on her own, I don’t think he is doing an amazing job on everything. He’s taking over the training-level tasks that he probably can do well on, trying to show off and blocking the OP from fully getting into the work, and probably not doing so well at more complex projects that the OP would do well on once she’s trained more.

          He’s trying to show he doesn’t suck by grabbing trainee-level work. It’d be sad if it wasn’t so annoying and harmful.

          They were hiring two specialists, only one of whom was to replace Jon. So they still need the OP, trained up. They also need someone to work on more complex projects, and it sounds like Jon is trying to cherrypick easier ones so he can shine, even when those are the OP’s. So, yes the OP needs to push back against Jon and also loop in Dany, because who’s doing the other work, long-term?

    2. Koalafied*

      Am I the only one who thinks the boss telling them why the other specialist was fired was a bad move? Now you have two other people hyperfocusing on their interpretation of the word “proactive” when there was probably more nuance in how this ended up with the third person fired…or maybe that was a diplomatic way of saying he was letting things fall through the cracks unless explicitly reminded of them by someone else.

      Boss should have said something like, “We terminated Frank’s employment for reasons he was well aware of, as it’s our policy to coach struggling employees on areas for improvement and establish clear guidelines for success before terminating an employee (except in cases of gross negligence, theft, etc).” Then OP (or other hypothetical coworkers in a different situation) could be reassured that if there were concerns with her own work, she would hear about it directly from the boss, and not have to guess about what being proactive means and how much of it she has to do to avoid being fired.

      1. Anon Anon*

        I agree with you. Typically when someone is fired, it’s pretty obvious to their co-workers why they are terminated, but the reasons don’t and shouldn’t be advertised.

        I also think it was a bad move to tell the OP that Jon was on a PIP.

      2. I Wrote This in the Bathroom*

        Yes I agree! I commented on this above. Way to send Jon into a frenzy of trying to be proactive the best he knows how.

        I’ve never had a manager give me and my teammates a reason why someone was fired, and the few times I heard of it happening elsewhere, it did not look good for the workplace in general.

    3. Sacred Ground*

      It doesn’t seem like LW knows for sure why he was on a PIP. It could have been low productivity or it could have been he was doing exactly this kind of thing all the time, undermining coworkers’ productivity, and stopped for a while.

      Report all this. For all you know, this is why he was on a PIP in the first place.

  5. Amber Rose*

    I’d be seeing red 24/7 with this guy. These are all very awful, OP. You are under reacting.

    I wonder if he does know you were brought in to replace him and that’s why he’s trying to make you look less competent. But that’s basically irrelevant, since the advice stands the same. Push back! This dude isn’t just stepping on your toes, he’s walking all over you. You don’t have to be his doormat.

    1. Myrin*

      Yeah, I meant to mention that but then forgot – OP, you sound… not exactly like you’re excusing his behaviours, but like you’re downplaying them in your head, maybe because you believe it, maybe just to make yourself stay calm. But please take it from this internet stranger: Jon’s behaviour is all around outrageous and infuriating and after months of this, I’m surprised you haven’t tried disobeying whatever safety and distancing measures might be in place where you live to personally walk over to this guy and throttle him. You’re allowed to be angry!

    2. EvilQueenRegina*

      I can quite easily see that. The other thing I wondered about was whether possibly one of the things Jon was dinged on in the PIP was not being proactive enough, plus seeing the other person fired, and it’s his way of compensating for that.

  6. AndersonDarling*

    When Covid hit and my team started worrying about their job security, a couple of co-workers suddenly turned into Jon. We all manged our projects and time well, but now there is constant bickering about who “owns” topics and people trying to insert themselves as managers. People are setting up workgroups, trainings, and feel-good-moral-boosting-chat sessions that never existed before. It’s exhausting.
    So overall coronavirus job security fears may be playing into the OP’s situation as well.

    1. Mazzy*

      I’m curious for a specific example or two. I have no clue have somebody can insert themselves into other peoples projects without it being 100% obvious that they’re overstepping

      1. Katrinka*

        If the person asking the question doesn’t know whose project it is, they will have no idea that the person answering isn’t the project lead. It’s fairly easy to do once you get past the immediate supervisor level.

        1. Artemesia*

          Which is why it is important to talk to the boss about directly assigning work to the OP and also directing questions to the appropriate project owner. The ambiguity in communication from manager and peers is making this worse.

        2. Sparrow*

          Exactly. Or person A owns part of a task and is supposed to pass information along to person B and just…doesn’t and maybe even covers B’s part without telling them, under the guise of being “helpful.”

      2. AndersonDarling*

        I see it manifesting when there is a group huddle and I mention that I am working with Client Jenny and someone declares that they worked with Jenny previously and they need to take over. In reality, they only had one interaction with Client Jenny and it was 6 years ago.
        Or when you mention that you are running Process X and someone steps in and says they just ran that process and they know the best way to run it and you have to do it their way.
        I was in a meeting where someone actually said “Who said you could work on that?!” Um, our manager who assigned it in front of both of us?
        These interactions are all obvious overstepping situations, but I think that is what they are going for. They want everyone see that they are “taking charge” when they are just meddling.

    2. Anon Anon*

      I really think this is a reaction that is likely being exacerbated by COVID-19. If Jon was on a PIP that came close enough that he only kept his job at the last minute (and I suspect that the OP doesn’t know what Jon had to achieve to keep his job), adding the mess with COVID-19 has probably made an over-reaction that much worse. It’s why as good as Alison’s advice is, and it’s definitely the right course of action, I’m not sure it will be successful. Because when someone has that level of insecurity they often don’t see the other problems in front of them.

      1. EvilQueenRegina*

        Honestly, I do think Covid-19 is exacerbating a lot of things at the moment. I admit it did with me in an albeit different situation (my laptop was faulty and needed to go back into the office to be fixed, I’d been reporting the problem for weeks but IT just kept doing quick fixes that didn’t get to the bottom of the problem and it just got worse and worse until it got to the point of not being usable, then once someone finally took me seriously it took longer than it should have to finally get fixed) – the situation with the laptop was definitely magnified for me because of Covid-19 (also because if I had been office based when that happened, even with all the things with IT happening exactly as they did, I would have lost less time to it because I could have got on the spare machine sooner and wouldn’t have had to keep going backwards and forwards with it). I can quite easily believe it’s exacerbating things for Jon too.

    3. Amber Rose*

      I find myself doing this a little bit too honestly. I’m no Jon, mind you, and I’m not fighting anyone for anything, but I have been volunteering for more stuff and trying to keep my bosses aware of my achievements more than I usually do.

      I even feel like a kiss-ass but I can’t help it, being scared a bit. The world is a scary place.

  7. Detective Amy Santiago*

    I think Alison hit the nail on the head that this is Jon’s reaction to his PIP. He’s overcorrecting and has swung the pendulum too far in the other direction now.

    Personally, I’d use Alison’s scripts exactly once with him directly and then, if he continues to disregard your boundaries, start copying Dany on all of your communication with him. (And communicate via email or some other text format, not a phone call or video chat without a transcript, because you need to document everything.)

  8. Been there*

    I feel like the OP should bring this up with her supervisor. Some of the statements may be taken by Jon as hostile and backfire (this comes from unfortunate past experiences). If it is a collaborative office it may be no big deal who completes what but if there are metrics that need to be completed this could be a bigger problem.

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      If she does talk to Dany at this stage, I would frame it as “I’m going to start asking him to stop this, but I wanted you to be aware it’s happening” — because Dany otherwise is likely to ask, “Have you talked to him about this?” and the answer needs to be that yes, she is. That’s really step one.

      1. TootsNYC*

        Though if I were Dany, I might not actually ask that; I’d assume that if they HAD talked to Jon, they’s have mentioned it.
        And I also assume that they didn’t feel they were allowed to.

        Now…I would probably coach then to say something, but I also personally would think that this could be awkward enough that it was worth me coming in to say, “I’ve observed these things–please stop.”

    2. ThisColumnMakesMeGratefulForMyBoss*

      I disagree. OP needs to speak up for herself directly with Jon first. Unless it’s a serious harassment issue (or something similar), you try and handle issues with colleagues on your own first before you run to the manager to resolve the situation. If he doesn’t modify his behavior, then you go to the manager.

      1. Littorally*

        That’s not always the case – or rather, talking to the manager does not necessarily mean you’re asking the manager to resolve the situation.

        My last manager asked me to go to him for things before I directly tried to engage with colleagues, not because he was going to take on the battle for me, but because he wanted to be in the loop if the conversation went south. He was aware that we have a lot of big personalities in our office, and would much rather have his finger on the pulse of the situation from the outset than wind up with a conversation escalating into a mess and then getting dumped in his lap.

        In this case, the OP might talk to Dany to ask for advice in how to address the situation, or to clarify what exactly are the boundaries of what Jon is okay to do and what would be considered an overstep in this office. This would be useful information to have before talking with Jon.

        1. BethDH*

          Given that Dany fired someone for not being proactive, I would imagine that they want OP to at least try to sort it out first.

        2. Sparrow*

          I agree that telling a boss doesn’t have to mean asking them to resolve the situation. “Heads up, this is going on, and here’s my plan for dealing with it,” is also an option, and there are definitely moments where that approach is appropriate. Personally, I would consider doing that here, just because I’d be worrying that him stealing my work was reflecting poorly on me and I’d want to get out in front of that.

    3. Koala dreams*

      Yes, I agree. It’s a good idea to tell your boss about the problems and how you are going to deal with them, first, so that the boss is prepared if Jon responds in a bad way. (I hope I’m overly pessimistic about this, but Jon’s behaviour sounds rather hostile right now.) No need to go into details, just as a heads up.

  9. Washi*

    You might find it eases your mind to talk to Dany about your performance in general, if you haven’t already. You can check in about how she thinks you’re doing, whether she has any feedback for you, etc, and I think you can also mention that you wonder if you should be jumping on things the way Jon is or if you’re giving the impression that you’re not on top of it. I think if you frame it not as blaming Jon, but just something you’re noticing that you’re wondering about for your own performance, you could gain more clarity about how she’s seeing it, advice on how she wants you to handle it, and side bonus she is made aware of some details that she might not have otherwise known.

    1. riverflows*

      I agree with this approach (in addition to saying something to Jon). Given that the company culture seems to be willing to fire someone who isn’t proactive, I wonder if PO asking the manager to directly assign tasks to them would be seen as less proactive rather than not. E.g. putting the burden on the manager and circumventing office norms of volunteering for projects/tasks (showing initiative/proactiveness)? Hard to say without more info from OP. This general conversation with Dany seems like a good initial approach.

      Either way, all the other over-stepping Jon is doing is not good and OP needs to put a stop to him completing their tasks, etc.

  10. Myrin*

    Since this has been going on for months by now, I would actually focus more stronlgy on Alison’s last point and suggest that the next time he makes such a blunder – and make no mistakes, these are blunders; I doubt you’re the only one who sees them as such, especially with how he’s been on the brink of being fired before -, you use it as an opportunity: combine the situationally appropriate one of Alison’s asterisked points with the talk about the more general pattern. That’s a seamless segue into the pattern talk which IMO needs to be had anyway, and it’s probably the most effective way to bring it up.

    I also feel like the point of speaking to Dany is important. Several of the incidents you mention she’s able to witness herself – like how Jon interrupted you guys’s training session, or when he talks over you, or the thing with your director’s email which I find frankly alarming in its intesity – but things like when he’s questioning your work are probably just between the two of you and as such, Dany might have an inkling about them just because she knows him, but I think she needs to know about them explicitly from you.
    You might want to approach it in a way of asking for advice on how to handle situations where Jon behaves in X, Y, and Z manner. But do talk to him yourself first!

  11. MistOrMister*

    OP, I am exhausted on your behalf!! I feel like all of Alison’s advice here is really good. Hopefully you can talk to Jon and/or your boss and he will back off. I can’t imagine the boss isn’t annoyed by him too.

  12. Mannheim Steamroller*

    “I don’t want you taking over my work. Please don’t work on my projects without clearing it with me first. You won’t have all the context, and frankly it makes me look really bad. I don’t know if you realized that.”

    Of course, he does realize it. Making you look bad is clearly a key part of raising his own profile. You should simply tell him (in an email with copy to your boss) to STOP doing your work, STOP talking over you, STOP mansplaining and taking credit for your ideas, and so forth.

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      That’s aggressive as a first step for someone the OP says she thinks of as a nice person. It may become necessary, but first she needs to push back in the moment (if she just goes straight to this, she’s going to look like someone who lacks any artfulness in dealing with colleagues).

      1. I Go OnAnonAnonAnon*

        Well, it IS advice from a self-described Steamroller… (wink – I agree with you, Alison!)

    2. Myrin*

      Of course he realises it, but this is a pretty handy rhetoric trick to enable him to safe face should he wish to do so, to back off gracefully and more willingly than he might do without it. I don’t know if I’d use it in this particular instance because his behaviour is so egregious but I absolutely think that it’s a valuable tactic in general, even if you’re 100% sure of a person’s motivation.

    3. Fiona*

      I don’t think we necessarily know that. I think it’s better to assume incompetence over malice. This is someone who may have heard advice like “become indispensable!” “help with EVERYTHING!” and is so desperate to keep their job that they don’t realize how alienating and problematic their behavior is. Better to be kind and direct before resorting to dramatic emails.

    4. Third or Nothing!*

      He may, or he may not. I once *thought* I was helping out a teammate (we do the exact same thing but for different groups) by doing a bit of her work during my down time while she was out sick for a week. It was piling up alarmingly fast, and while none of it was time sensitive (yet) I honestly thought I was doing her a favor by taking some of the tedious stuff off her plate so she wouldn’t have a mountain of crap to come back to. Boy, was I wrong. Very, very, very wrong. Never ever ever ever making that mistake ever again, so don’t pile on me, fellow AAM readers.

  13. CAA*

    There’s one thing I would change in Alison’s scripts: where she has “it makes ME look really bad”, change that to “it makes YOU look really bad”. His goal is to look better than OP so that he’ll be the one who gets to keep his job during the next round of layoffs. Telling him that his actions are having the opposite effect is more likely to get him to change.

    1. fposte*

      I think that changes the tone too much, though; the OP isn’t in a position to assess what Jon looks like to the managers, and that would be an overreach on her part to suggest she is.

      1. CAA*

        “It makes me look bad” is also something she can’t really assess though. Unless the managers have specifically told her that they see her poorly because Jon always has to help her, then it’s her opinion of how his behavior is affecting her in others’ eyes, and it may or may not be accurate. “It makes you look bad” is also her own assessment of his behavior, the “to our managers” part is implied, but it could just as easily be “to me”. She’ll have to decide which to say in the moment, but I do think the “you” phrasing is more likely to get him to change.

        1. fposte*

          She can always comment on her own experience in the workplace; it’s the equivalent of an “I” message. But “It makes you look bad” is adversarial, and it puts the OP uncomfortably close to being a bully. The goal here isn’t simply to change Jon’s behavior; it’s to preserve or even enhance her own reputation. A solution that shuts Jon up but leaves management worried about the OP isn’t a win.

          1. TechWorker*

            Right but ‘it makes me look bad’ gives Jon lots of room to think that OP is the problem/simply can’t cope with others being ‘better’ than them. (Other situations where someone might say ‘it makes me look bad’ is where a colleague is so much faster or more competent than them that by comparison they look bad…). I’m not super keen on it in this situation. (‘It makes it more difficult for me to do my job properly’, ‘it makes my work less efficient’ etc, fine).

            1. fposte*

              I’m okay with omitting it if it doesn’t work for the OP, but I would strongly advise against trying to turn it against Jon instead.

        2. EPLawyer*

          I wouldn’t say it makes me look bad. Jon knows this. That’s the whole point for him. He’s trying to save his job. Which to him means walking all over OP. He wants her to look bad.

          OP needs to not make it about how she looks but how it affects work flow. If you keep taking over my projects or email others about it, it leads to confusion which keeps things from flowing properly.

        3. dUnp*

          “It makes you look bad” is also her own assessment of his behavior, the “to our managers” part is implied, but it could just as easily be “to me”.

          The only tidbit we know is that this company values “proactive” employees. We have no idea that Jon looks bad to his managers, and he may come off looking quite good.

    2. Bella*

      no… that’s the tactless way to put it and a little too mind-games to necessarily work the way you think it will. And honestly, might not be true. It makes him look bad to OP, but it’s unknown how a manager interprets it. I think if it becomes clear that OP will eventually bring it up as a topic of concern WITH management, he might realize it’s time to back down.

    3. Kes*

      Honestly I would just leave that part out altogether, and just focus on ‘you need to stop trying to take over my work’. While it could help, I would worry it could be a distraction where Jon comes away thinking ‘OP thinks she looks bad’ vs ‘OP thinks I’m trying to take over her work’ which is the more important message.

      1. Littorally*

        Agreed. On the chance that he is trying to make the OP look bad, I wouldn’t say anything to suggest he’s succeeding.

      2. It's Bruno!*

        Also, from personal experiences, it is a good possibility that each/every time he has taken over, finished a project that he has sent an email to show how proactive he is and how slow and clueless you are. I don’t believe you are, but he is awfully quick to take ownership of your ideas, conversations and projects so, do not trust his motives. Not everyone who seems nice has your best interests at heart.

    4. JSPA*

      “It makes us both look bad” sets the problem up as something they are both motivated to fix, which is an inherently collaborative framing. I’d probably go with that. Besides, it’s probably true. People will sense the weirdness. They may or may not parse out exactly who’s the root cause.

      1. Paulina*

        TBH I think it makes everyone look bad, including their manager. It can come across as very disorganized.

  14. Lizzy May*

    Jon sounds terrified to me and that can’t be good for him. But that doesn’t change the fact that his behavior is out of line.

    I once worked through a PIP. I disagreed with it from the start and seeing as I “sailed through it” according to my new manager who inherited me two weeks before upper management rolled it out, I was probably right to disagree. But even with that, I felt so insecure and scared while I was on the PIP and for a long time after. It took about a year until I was back where I felt comfortable. But those were my feelings to manage and Jon isn’t doing a good job of managing his feeling at all.

    1. MAC*

      I had a similar situation. In my case, a new manager put 5 people on our 10 person team on PIPs, most of us were long timers who had been considered high performers up to that point. Just a few months later, she was fired and they moved us to new teams, where we were once again viewed that way, but it still took a while to overcome the shame and insecurity. But I didn’t attempt to undermine my colleagues to make myself look better.

  15. CoderUnicorn*

    He might also have gotten bad advice. Due to this pandemic and a lot of people being laid off. I’ve seen the advice floating around to do whatever it takes to show your value so your name isn’t on the lay-off list.

    1. Ethyl*

      Yeah I was going to say something similar. If the team members need to be “proactive,” that’s not really what Jon is doing. Or at least in a healthy workplace, lots of this behavior wouldn’t be seen as proactive.

      1. Ethyl*

        Sorry, I didn’t finish my thought! I wonder if some of the stuff he’s doing is because he got some sort of outdated advice on “gumption,_ or something. Jumping in to finish other people’s projects has the same vibe as “go to the office every day asking for a job so they know you’re serious!”

        1. CoderUnicorn*

          Yes. I also don’t think he might be trying to make OP look bad or think of her as week. He might be like “oh no I can’t lose my health insurance I need to make myself very valuable”. I’m not saying what he is doing is right but he might not of been doing it in a viscous way.

          1. Ethyl*

            Yep. Didn’t we have a question a bit ago where a supervisor in a government office situation was doing the same thing with her employee? Took all her work and left her with nothing to do so she could be indispensible or something, because she felt like her job was on the chopping block and was panicking?

    2. Kes*

      Yeah I mean I think with the PIP + coworker being fired for not being proactive + risk from covid, it’s pretty clear and understandable what’s driving him here. However, that doesn’t make his behaviour okay and OP needs to push back ASAP and hold the line on her projects.

    3. irene adler*

      I think you are onto something.
      Here in San Diego, there was a giant merger of two companies that resulted in the announcement that many hundreds of workers would be laid off at some upcoming date.
      Coincidently, I attended a resume workshop attended by dozens of the many folks involved with this upcoming merger/layoff. They asked the advice of the moderators of the workshop re: what they should do to not be laid off.
      The response: Be as indispensable as possible. Get in there and do things. Solve problems. Complete projects. Step up and do the difficult tasks-without being asked. Find cheaper ways to do things. Make it hard for your boss to do without you.

      I’ll never forget the despondent looks on their faces as they listened to this.

      These folks were already doing these things. And they knew it would have no effect on the layoffs.

      1. Ethyl*

        The worst thing about layoffs is that a lot of times, there really isn’t anything you can do. Decisions are being made way, way above “who did the most projects” or whatever.

        1. irene adler*

          Yep. That’s exactly what folks were trying to get advice on. I felt sooo bad for them.

  16. Stelmselms*

    I wonder if Jon took over all of the third specialist’s tasks as well and that’s why Dany fired that person for not being productive enough? (Instead of Jon as was the original plan.)

    1. Myrin*

      She fired the third person for not being proactive enough, though, not productive. That might still have to do with Jon – his behaviour as described in the letter certainly makes OP sound not very proactive – but it might also just have been something Dany observed about Third Coworker on her own.
      (That said, I find that an intriguing reason for firing someone, unless the work relies on people being quick and outspoken to a big degree, which it doesn’t sound like from OP’s account. I’d love to find out more about this just for curiosity’s sake.)

  17. Uranus Wars*

    I really have nothing to add except that I hope talking with your boss and with Jon helps matters. I am sure this is a combination of many factors, none of which mean it’s acceptable or you shouldn’t say something!

    This bulleted piece of advice reminded me of a question from last week (or maybe week before) about the woman who overheard her husband on the phone with co-workers and thought he was rude – I just wondered if he read the same advice or was dealing with a similar colleague.
    * When he talks over you on team calls, say, “I’d like to finish what I was saying” and “You’re interrupting me — please let me finish.” (Most people will be shamed into backing off if you say that, at least for that call. You may need to say it again on the next one.)

  18. RS*

    I’ve always loved the site’s use of Game of Thrones characters to represent different people in situations. But I can’t stop laughing thinking about what it means to be “fired” by Dany, named after the pyromaniac Mother of Dragons, who was … not a great boss.

  19. Librarian1*

    I would feel weird telling an over-reaching colleague that they are making me look bad. I guess I would assume that they already know that and are doing that on purpose. Especially in this case where he’s not just jumping on projects first, but is explicitly doing the OP’s work. Is this a mistaken assumption?

    Maybe it’s because I would never do that, but it seems so weird to me that someone would be doing this and not realize that’s what’s happening, at least on some level.

    1. Bella*

      I think his awareness doesn’t matter, because most people operate on an assumption you WON’T call them out for something that isn’t per-se “wrong.” And being very blunt about it can re-orient their idea of “what they can get away with.”

    2. NW Mossy*

      To me, it’s totally plausible that Jon doesn’t realize the effect of his behavior on the OP. Most of us are really up in our own heads, especially when we’re stressed and insecure about our place. He could easily be thinking of it as showing his value to the organization, being helpful and supportive of the new person, or both. Objectively it’s not, but stressed brains don’t do well at seeing things from another’s point of view.

      That’s why the OP stating out loud that it’s detrimental to her may help here. If Jon is well-meaning but just obliviously self-centered right now, hearing that his impact is the opposite of his intention may be just the thing to help him snap out of it.

      1. Kiki*

        I agree, especially since Jon just got off a PIP it seems everyone expected him to fail at. Yes, conscientious coworkers should realize when they’re stepping on peoples’ toes, but I could definitely see how being insecure and stressed could be muddling the impact in Jon’s mind.

        I’m also kinda curious because it seems like everyone who has been in this role has kind of failed at it? Obviously there’s a lot of context I’m not getting from this one letter, but that’s really concerning and may be worth asking your manager about too.

      2. Librarian1*

        That’s true. I guess I just worry that if he’s not clueless, that showing this vulnerability will just make him double-down on what he’s doing because it’s working.
        But, this is based on my experience with people like this, it may not be the case.
        And you’re right that if he’s stressed, he’s probably not thinking about how his behavior affects his coworker.

    3. Kes*

      Eh, I could see him being so focused on how he looks that he doesn’t realize the impact on OP. The question though is whether he’ll care enough about how he’s making OP look to change his actions, vs how much he cares about how he looks. Personally I’d probably leave that part out and just focus on the fact that it’s OP’s project and he’s overstepping and needs to let her run her projects.

      1. fposte*

        Yeah, if he’s anxiety-driven he’s really not engaged in Machiavellian plotting. I think whether the OP says it or not depends on her comfort level with it; I could easily see a “Dude, that’s making me look bad, and it’s a crappy way to treat a colleague” in some circumstances, but it doesn’t work for all.

    4. knead me seymour*

      Since the OP’s read of Jon is that he’s generally a decent person, and since the OP is fairly new, I think it could make sense in this scenario. Jon is probably (definitely) not seeing things through the OP’s perspective, and if he really is a decent person, this reminder might snap him out of his hamster-wheel thinking. I don’t think it would make sense to say if the OP were more established in the job.

  20. My2Cents*

    I definitely think you should bring it up with your supervisor as a professional development issue, in addition to calling it out in the moment with your coworker. I’m sure your boss wants you to grow and be successful in this role, and you won’t be able to do that if you can’t work independently on your projects. That said, there is also a chance that your boss encouraged him to be this involved and do a little hand-holding since you’re new, but I still think asking for more automomy will be well-received.

  21. I Love Llamas*

    Although Jon may come across as “nice”, his actions are speaking louder. Be careful around him. I think he is over-compensating for his PIP, C19 has made all this worse. I am guessing that he sees you as vulnerable/weak because you are new, and I want to guess female and younger than he is. You need to draw your line in the sand. You can do this nicely, but you need to use Alison’s scripts and begin pushing back. Interrupt him when he mansplains, stop him from interfering. I know confrontation can be uncomfortable, but you may be surprised that he backs down easily. He cannot afford to rock the boat, so he may back down as soon as you push back. Good luck!

    1. juliebulie*

      I agree, he does not sound “nice” to me. He sounds like someone who is trying to keep his friends close and his enemies – including OP – closer.

    2. Seeking Second Childhood*

      This is what I want to know…. is OP a woman? It’s horribly common if yes, and horrible but uncommon if no.

    3. That Girl from Quinn's House*

      Yup, this. And if she stands up for herself, he’s going to turn it back on her, paint her with the “difficult” label, and move in on her job.

    4. Unpopular opinion*

      Jon is not nice. He is, however, valued — I think it’s very clear the company likes what he’s doing.

      OP needs to stop trying to get Jon to change his behavior, and start trying to emulate it. Volunteer for projects before he does. Speak up in meetings before he does. This company has made it clear it values “proactive” behavior. The early bird gets the worm.

  22. LGC*

    Honestly, Sansa (you sound like a Sansa, LW), it sounds like Jon is on his way out anyway and he’s grasping at straws to hold on to. He passed his PIP…but he still had to go through it. And I can’t help but think he’s coming off as obnoxious to others as well – including Dany. He’s doing a lot, but from what it sounds like he’s doing it ineffectively.

    That is to say, I’d worry more about Jon’s job than yours.

    But yes, definitely speak up! He might be “friendly,” but his behavior is actually kind of hostile to you. (And yes, I feel comfortable saying this.)

    1. New Jack Karyn*

      Remember, Sansa went through a lot of serious stuff, but she learned and grew and persevered–and became Queen in the North.

  23. Not A Manager*

    Something about the messaging that “this makes me look bad,” or “this makes me look less capable” isn’t sitting well with me. I think it opens the door to Jon inferring that those things are true (“I am less capable and you’re revealing that,” “please don’t expose me”). I think it could backfire. I think his takeaway might be that this behavior really does make him look better in comparison to the OP.

    I would stick to things like “you don’t have the context” or “this was assigned to me” etc. and not get into how it makes people look.

    1. LGC*

      Heck, I don’t know if it’s necessarily true or not that whatever it is Jon’s doing does make LW look bad, which is the problem I had with that phrasing!

      I think the problem isn’t so much that Jon would assume that he is making LW look bad (although honestly, he doesn’t sound like the sharpest tool in the shed, so he might). I think what’s more likely is that LW will sound like they see Jon as a threat to their job, which might encourage him for different reasons. (So basically, he’ll keep doing it because he knows he’s getting under LW’s skin.) Maybe I’m assigning too much sophistication to him, though.

    2. joopiter*

      I agree. In trying to appeal to “nice guy” Jon, OP might be leaving herself vulnerable to someone who may not be that nice. If not-nice Jon knows he’s landing blows, he may not be inclined to stop. I would stick to defending your projects from him and calling him out when he’s overstepping.

      I literally just had to deal with this type of situation yesterday, with a teammate (who is also skating by after a PIP) who was passively taking credit for one of my designs (not actually saying he designed it but presenting it in a way that someone unfamiliar with the project would reasonably infer he did). When another teammate (who was aware of where the credit belonged) alerted me to it, I responded to all of them with a very professional “let me give you some further background on this project and the reasons why I designed it this way” email. Few things make me see red faster than someone attempting to take credit for something they didn’t do.

    3. serenity*

      I think you’re absolutely right, and others have raised this above.

      I think Jon’s behavior is calculated and is being directly caused by anxiety due to his PIP and the specter of imminent layoffs. I’d be more careful in my language – and more direct – than what Alison recommends.

    4. AKchic*

      Yeah, I don’t like it either. As a woman, I would *never* want to admit (openly or indirectly) that someone’s actions are having a negative effect on me, especially if that is their goal. And I do think that it may be a secondary goal of Jon’s. He can’t be completely blind to the fact that three people weren’t needed in his department and he was on a PIP. He had to have seen the writing on the wall that at least one of them was meant to be his replacement. One is already gone. He’s off his PIP, and now he can focus on “proving” that a secondary person is not needed, because a secondary person means that his job is never truly “secure” and is always a reminder that he can be replaced at a moment’s notice.

      I think the language of “when you jump in…” or “when you try to take over my projects…” and “when you complete something on my behalf without telling me…” and “when you email 3rd parties about things I have been working on without communicating with me first…” “… it makes our department look disorganized, ineffective, and like we don’t communicate. It’s bad optics and neither of us want that. I appreciate your enthusiasm and willingness to ‘help out’ and ‘pitch in’ as a ‘team player’, but I need you to stop jumping into my work like that. Thanks.”

      And really, Dany needs to be in the loop that A L L of this is happening and that OP is going to be pushing back (and maybe bcc’ing Dany on any emails regarding the pushback).

      I’m also going to recommend that OP really document all of the times Jon has taken over/completed projects out from under her. All the times he’s gone around her (undermined her) and contacted people about her projects. All the times he’s talked over her and presented her ideas as his own (if she can remember them). It adds up. Then, push back every time he does it. He needs to stop.

    5. Koala dreams*

      Yes, that phrasing felt weird to me too. Altough part of that is that we hear only about the bad things Jon is doing, so it seems obvious from the letter that Jon is the one who looks bad, and to other people in the company it might not be clear. The other part is that Jon seems rather hostile. I guess the letter writer is the one who can determine which approach would work best in her situation.

    6. Librarian1*

      “Something about the messaging that “this makes me look bad,” or “this makes me look less capable” isn’t sitting well with me. I think it opens the door to Jon inferring that those things are true (“I am less capable and you’re revealing that,” “please don’t expose me”). I think it could backfire. I think his takeaway might be that this behavior really does make him look better in comparison to the OP.”

      Yes, this is my thought too an what I was trying to say above.

    7. Erstwhile Lurker*

      Me neither, it seems to almost place the person under Jon, when in fact they own the projects in question. I would replace it with “undermines my ability to do my job”

  24. voyager1*

    I honestly think the problem isn’t Jon, it is your management. You should have NOT been told you were replacing someone on a PIP who is still working there. That would have been a monster huge red flag in the hiring process for me. You were led to believe he would be gone and oh look he isn’t.

    Of course there is a possibility the other employee who was let go was in the PIP instead I guess.

    I think you, Jon and your manager need to have a talk. I don’t think going to Jon on its own is a good idea. He in his eyes is busting his but to keep his job, he might see you as a threat if you approach him. You need your manager on your side.

    I also would not assume that Jon doesn’t know you were slated to take his spot.

    1. Heather*

      Thank you! I completely agree, this seems like horrible management. Telling OP about Jon, telling OP and Jon about the other coworker…I think Jon’s (likely panic-induced) tactics are quite understandable. Not nice, but understandable. If you just got off a PIP and then were told your coworker was fired for not being proactive enough, of course you’re going to jump on any outstanding work and chime in where you can.

    2. Kiki*

      I both agree and disagree with you: Jon is definitely part of the problem, but based on what was said in the letter, I also feel like the management of this position is failing. Sometimes things just happen, but it’s concerning to me that:
      1) Jon was on a PIP that people were sure enough he’d fail at that they’d tell the LW about it
      2) The other specialist was fired
      3) Everyone seems to know that the third specialist was fired for “not being proactive enough,” but nobody seems to know what being proactive in this role should look like
      4) Management has not noticed that Jon is wildin’
      5) LW is in a place where they don’t feel like they can trust their reviews to be an honest assessment of how they’re performing

      Maybe LW talking to Jon about how their “proactivity” is negatively impacting them will be enough, but I do think there are some underlying management issues here. Of course, I’m basing this off limited context and only LW knows what’s up, but that’s my take

    3. RS*

      Yes, I think that this is spot-on. None of information we have about the manager (1) informing new hire about current employee being on a PIP and initially not succeeding in turning it around, 2) communicating vaguely damning and worry-inducing information about another employee’s termination, 3) not being aware of how her team is handling its work) indicates that she’s a good manager. She may, in fact, be as much of a problem as Jon himself.

  25. CommanderBanana*

    I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say that Jon is not, in fact, a nice guy or friendly guy.

    1. Unpopular opinion*

      Jon is not, in fact, a nice guy or friendly guy. <– No, he's superficially friendly but willing to be ruthless to get ahead in the workplace. The reality of life is that some people are gunners, though. OP needs to compete with Jon not try to change his behavior.

  26. Orange You Glad*

    I’d be tempted to go right to the boss and frame it as asking if she has any issues with your work and if she is instructing Jon to take over the work. Explain the frustrations of your work being taken over by Jon without your knowledge and ask what you can do better to improve.

    I’m guessing she isn’t aware of Jon’s behavior, but that way if there is another issue with your progress, it can be addressed. Beyond the “being proactive” thing, I’m guessing if Jon had performance issues in the past, he may not be effectively completing the work he is taking on now and just rushing through so it looks like he can do everything.

  27. Stephanie*

    Oh, this is timely. I’m on a team where we don’t have quite enough work for all the engineers. With all the uncertainty around job security, there’s a lot scurrying to look busy or on top of things (but we work in teapot manufacturing when no teapots are really being built). One guy is a contractor and is probably worried because they often are first cut during downsizing. The other two engineers keep trying to do “Gotchas!” on work or do things for me and CC our boss to show me up. It’s…a little tiring.

  28. Cobol*

    OP, I’d look outside of Jon for a second. This is pure speculation, but Jon’s behavior could be a symptom of a dysfunctional organization. How long was the other specialist there before being let go? It’s a bit of an overshare to say this guy is on a PIP.

    1. Ray Gillette*

      This was my first thought, actually. The phrase “not being proactive enough” gives me hives. It’s clearly placing blame without actually giving any specifics of what needs to change.

      I received this exact feedback when a client cancelled their contract because of problems I wasn’t able to solve (I had escalated to the appropriate department, who ignored it) and management was more interested in finding a scapegoat than dealing with the other department.

  29. Betty*

    He is making himself look bad, not you! The more you calmly point out the reality of the situation, the more he will look like a massive weirdo who is shoving his oar in right, left and centre. FWIW, I would raise it with your manager if he doesn’t back off a bit, just to kind of point it out and draw your manager’s attention to it, but I’m pretty sure they know and I would be surprised if Jon gets back into PIP territory before too long. It’s GOOD that this company does PIPs and allows people to complete them (Jon), and that they fire people who don’t work out (third specialist). I would assume your manager would let you know if they have any concerns, but you could always ask.

  30. Lizzo*

    I’m going to +1 all the comments above about talking to your manager first, OP, and framing it as, “This is happening. I had planned to address it directly with Jon in X + Y+ Z manner. What is your opinion on that approach?” It sends the message that you are confident enough to deal with challenges directly, but also smart enough to ask for input in difficult situations where you can benefit from having additional context .

    If addressing it with Jon directly blows up in your face, your manager should (in theory) have your back, and also be able to step right in and give Jon the earful he deserves.

    Also: document, document, document. It will be hard to argue with data such as, “Jon has intervened on 50% of the projects I’ve been assigned.”

  31. Isabelle*

    Regarding this:
    “Just now, a company director sent our team an update about one of our projects but failed to specify which one. The project was mine and I recognized the info instantly so I sent my team a quick email, letting them know I would take care of it. In response, Jon told me he had already emailed the director with questions but was happy to see my “nice thinking!”

    Does this not imply that Jon removed OP (who was originally on CC) from the recipients list when he emailed his questions to the director? If that’s the case, it’s really malicious. Don’t go easy on him OP, he isn’t just trying to protect himself, he is actively sabotaging you!

    1. Paulina*

      He might just have done Reply rather than Reply-all. Still, if the director got a bunch of dashed-off questions from Jon, and more thoughtful and appropriate responses from the OP, Jon will not have come over well.

  32. topscallop*

    “I’ll let Jane know to disregard the email you sent since I’m the lead on this.” <– This gave me chills, it's such a bad ass statement.

  33. Drew*

    My first thought, honestly, was that Jon might have been doing the same things to the third team member, knowing they were already on thin ice, and now that they’re gone he can focus all his energy on LW because they can’t possibly get rid of him when there’s no one else on the team.

    LW, you know him better than we do and maybe I’m completely off base, but Jon sure sounds to be like someone who’s going to respond to threats to his position by doing everything in his power to screw over other people to save his own skin.

  34. OhNoYouDidn't*

    With regard to him going into your files and completing your work, is it allowable to password protect your files so he cannot get into them unless you’re there with him? Or can you make the un-editable to anyone but yourself?

  35. Allison*

    For what it’s worth OP, all of these behaviors would drive me BONKERS and they absolutely are ALL horrible on their own!

Comments are closed.