updates: the unsafe holiday party, the dominatrix, and more

by Alison Green on June 24, 2021

It’s a special “where are you now?” season at Ask a Manager, where all month I’m running updates from people who had their letters here answered in the past. Here are five updates from past letter-writers.

1. My company is having an unsafe holiday party (#2 at the link)

I had written to you last year about my employer hosting an in-person holiday party during a pandemic! I have a couple of updates.

First, the party ended up getting canceled after multiple employees got COVID beforehand. I was relieved, because I had told my manager I wouldn’t be attending because of a prior engagement and she seemed disappointed in me.

Second, after that my employer seemed to back off on in-person events and wanting to physically see people. I was hopeful that we were going to be allowing remote work after the pandemic was over; in fact, they sent multiple emails alluding as much. But only a few weeks ago, they held a conference call in which they said everyone needed to come back soon and they would never allow remote work again. They said our corporate culture was being destroyed and we weren’t efficient enough while working remotely. That felt like a lie, because we exceeded all of our metrics last year and were told it was one of the best years for our firm.

So now I’m considering getting a new job. I feel betrayed by the organization. Not a nice update, but I wanted to let you know!

2. I’m not getting interviews because employers think they can’t afford me

First, thank you for answering my letter. I believe I said in the comments that by the time you posted my letter I had already accepted a job for a local company. At the time I really needed a job, so I accepted one that used my skill set and allowed me to learn new things, has great benefits, has been testing COVID protocols well, and allowed for great networking opportunities. Although I took a significant pay cut from the job I was laid off from (a 55% pay cut), after 7 months, I was offered an intracompany transfer to a different position that more aligns with my project manager background, provided a raise of about 30% pay raise, and kept many of the same benefits. My new boss has also said that at fiscal year end my salary will be re-reviewed to bring me more in line with my capabilities.

I’m feeling much more confident in my newest role and more comfortable with my assigned duties! Your site helped me negotiate salaries for the two positions I’ve held as well as additional vacation time. My key experience there was: make the request and stop talking. Thanks for all of your continued help!!

3. Am I expecting too much when interviewing students?

I truly appreciate your response and every single comment from readers! The response was overwhelming, but also educational and -super helpful. I took every single comment to heart (I read all 600+) and, to be honest, I was feeling uncomfortable. I’ve been feeling burned out, anxious, and overwhelmed and I think my inner turmoil is showing. I am – or was – feeling very silly about my letter. I leaned into the discomfort and approached this as a learning opportunity.

I do want to respond to a few of the specific comments:

I typically wouldn’t have started the interview process this far in advance. I am not interviewing anyone else since he needs to lock in an internship way before I’d want to actually start the hiring process. I was feeling the pressure of having to decide without comparing him to other applicants. I will also likely be on maternity leave during his internship and since I can’t talk to anyone about this (except you all, I guess) I am worrying about how this affect my intern!

I heard and truly value your comments about privilege. I was a first-gen student myself, my parents did not have professional jobs nor did they go to college, and I went no contact with my dad when I was a freshman, so I don’t think I was coming to this from a place of privilege. I did have an awesome professor who was a bit of a mentor and I did use my resources (mostly, the internet) to prepare myself for these kinds of things, but I don’t and shouldn’t expect that everyone has the same instinct. I really appreciate the commenter who pointed out that “unconscious mastery makes things seem obvious that are really not”.

Since nearly all of you mentioned earbuds, I have no idea why they jumped out at me as being weird. I don’t personally see them very often in my virtual meetings (and I don’t watch the news), and, yeah, I was feeling really dumb.

As many of you suggested, I decided to extend this student some grace (I am extending myself some grace, too). I spent the rest of the day brainstorming and drafting a plan for what his internship could look like, leaving room for opportunities for professional development and started to map out how my maternity leave would affect him. I reached out to him to schedule a second interview and let him know my expectations in terms of dress code and engagement. The second interview went a lot better and we hired him, so wish me luck shaping a young mind!

I wrote in to learn and I definitely did, so thank you all for that!

4. My coworker is a dominatrix — and it’s fairly public on Facebook

I wrote a letter a few years ago about my dominatrix coworker. Not a very exciting update, but her former slave is now her wife and they’re running a small business together. Not sure about the sex life because it’s no longer mentioned on Facebook, but they seem very happy!

5. Friday good news (#1 at the link)

I wouldn’t think a “Friday Good News” needed an update, but it has been a wild ride since I shared my good news. My good news ended up turning into bad news, and then good news again!

I had a “very specific background and skill set” and didn’t think I would find a job during covid, and I was ecstatic when I found something directly in alignment with my background, and I got more money and PTO than I expected. Dream job, right?

Nope! The hiring manager left after a week and my team was tossed around between departments. Every manager tried to blindly take charge even though they knew nothing about our work. Basically, they were meddling rather than managing. There were many bad decisions that directly led to systematic failures. I was the only one with experience in managing this kind of special work, but I was treated like a dumb girl if I dared open my mouth. After 4 different managers, working 60-70 hour weeks, and enduring misogyny misery every day, I was about to accept a new job. Turns out, my whole team was equally frustrated and they were also job searching. A co-worker turned in their notice first and then THINGS HAPPENED.

Leadership suddenly realized how poorly things were being handled, and they made changes. Our executives called me one-by-one to apologize. They had been told that the major, company destroying problems weren’t a big deal. There was a lot of rosy info being passed through management to cover up all the problems, and every leader who called apologized for not looking deeper and for giving leadership positions to managers that weren’t ready for the responsibility. They moved those managers into roles that were better suited to their strengths, and we were given the responsibility of managing our own team.

I was so frustrated and miserable that I didn’t think anything could turn me around. But the honesty from my leaders and thoughtful changes that were put in place completely flipped my attitude. It’s only been a few weeks, but it is like a new job. My team has developed short term and long term goals, there is a new level of respect between colleagues, and I’m actually doing the work I love doing and doing it in a regular 40 hour work week.

My original Friday Good News was a bit premature. But I now have the great job that I thought I was walking into a year ago.

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  1. HS Teacher*

    LW 1 shouldn’t just consider a new job; they should be actively seeking one! The company sounds horrible to work for, and you already know they are never going to allow remote work again.

    1. RJ*

      Agreed. If a company’s culture is so fragile it’s “being destroyed” by remote work, then they didn’t have a strong culture to begin with.

      1. Prairie*

        I’d point out that the company culture was allegedly destroyed while they exceeded every metric for the year. Can’t help but wonder if the company culture was holding people back all along.

        1. MassMatt*

          I was thinking this. Perhaps to them, “culture” solely means “butts in seats for 40+ hrs per week”.

          And they say people aren’t efficient enough while employees are exceeding metrics and the company had the best year ever–the cognitive disconnect is amazing! Putting this together with their bad judgment in pressuring people to attend a holiday party during a pandemic and I’d say management is probably terrible in multiple ways. I hope employers like this see an exodus of talent. They probably won’t realize it until too late, if ever.

          1. Mongrel*

            I’d make a WAG that the ‘Company Culture’ is dictated by a couple of gregarious extroverts at the top who like out of hours socialising and they’re missing it.

            1. wittyrepartee*

              I have a friend like this, he’s the only extrovert among a passel of introverts. We’re all like “so excited about work from home!” and he’s dying.

    3. Momma Bear*

      Sounds to me like either someone failed to manage their remote workers or someone high up has a butts in seats mentality.

    4. pleaset cheap rolls*

      “They said our corporate culture was being destroyed and we weren’t efficient enough while working remotely. That felt like a lie, because we exceeded all of our metrics last year and were told it was one of the best years for our firm.”

      Response:
      “I don’t understand. We just heard that we exceeded all of our metrics last year – it was one of the best years ever for the firm. Can you explain what you mean?”

  2. Lilo*

    Tangential to LW1 – how have companies not realized telework can save them massive amounts of money in facility costs? My organization is about 75% fully remote and we save so much in office space costs because of this.

    1. Liz*

      My guess is, they continue along with “that’s the way we’ve always done things”, and can’t see past any of that to realize that change can be a positive thing. Or they view WFH as something suspicous and not to be trusted!

      Pre-COVID i really hated WFH. Unlike my co-workers who did it one or two days a week, I only did it when absolutely necessary. Of course then COVID hit and I had no choice. I adapted, and now its tolerable. I’m actually hoping to work both from home and go in, once we go back next months.

      1. Richard Hershberger*

        Also, they may be locked into a long term lease. If they have enough space for everybody, that space–and the rent they pay for it–is being wasted when people work from home. Of course this does not cost them any more, but many people have trouble with abstract thought. And of course it also is short term thinking in other ways. If they have any thought of expanding, WFH would give them the flexibility to do this without renting more space, and even if they aren’t, that lease won’t be forever. And the big one is my prediction of a Great Bifurcation of jobs that need physical presence and jobs that don’t. If the job can be performed remotely, forcing employees to come into the office will put the company at a permanent disadvantage recruiting talent. But again, this requires abstract thinking.

        1. Jenny*

          They’re still saving a tremendous amount of money despite a lease. Office supplies, utilities, and sometimes even food are now being absorbed by the employee.

        2. Sea Anemone*

          forcing employees to come into the office will put the company at a permanent disadvantage recruiting talent

          or it will select for candidates who prefer to be in the office, which is the preferred culture if they are insisting people be in the office.

          Even for people who prefer a remote work, I don’t think it will be at as much of a disadvantage as you are projecting. You would need a huge deficit of workers versus jobs to have a large disadvantage.

          1. wittyrepartee*

            I think even for people that love being in the office, not having any work from home at all is going to be a significant deterrent for new hires. Being able to use wfh instead of sick time for when I have a cold or bad allergies or an anxiety attack has been a real boon.

    2. Mer*

      My company (about 30 employees) was already planning on moving offices before the pandemic, but since everyone’s been remote since April of 2020, they decided to significantly cut down on the amount of office space they would need and everyone can remain remote. There are only five employees who will have their own offices and there will be open desks for everyone to use if someone decides they want to come into the office for the day.

      I have to say, I’ve been working remotely since July of 2018 and it’s was difficult being the only remote person at my organization. I wouldn’t be told things, staff meetings were difficult to hear over the phone with people shuffling papers near the speaker phone, one time my weekly department meeting ended, no one told me, and they all left the room without hanging up the phone. (Ok, that last one is pretty funny.) Now that everyone’s remote, it’s made my job a lot easier.

      1. pleaset cheap rolls*

        My org has about five “offices” with multiple people plus another five in solo locations for a total of about 60 people. And staff meetings were typically run out of the biggest/main office with others calling it. It was not good for callers, and for years I said people in the main office should join the meeting by phone/Zoom just to see what it’s like. I did a few times (calling from my desk outside the conference room) and was appalled but no one else took me up on it.
        Finally with covid WFH we’re really raised our game on how we manage meetings with people calling in. So that’s progress.

    3. TWW*

      I find it a dismaying that employers are pocketing the savings from downsizing their offices. Considering that WFH employees dedicate space in their home (and electricity and internet) to their employer, it seems like those savings should be passed along to the employees. I know that’s not the way business works, but it’s dismaying nonetheless.

      1. Lilo*

        I mean work at home also saves the employees money in commuting and makes things like making your own lunch and coffee easier. If productivity is working from home and the employee is happy (some people don’t like working from home) it’s a win win.

        1. Paris Geller*

          I think both can be true depending on your work situation, but if I were to WFH, I’d definitely come out behind. My commute is 10 minutes each way. The $$ I would spend on electricity alone would far outweigh any commute savings, and that’s not even taking into account things like a work computer, desk, desk chair, etc.

          1. Lilo*

            My company supplies our equipment. A place that requires teleworkers to buy their own computers is terrible. We mailed everyone all their tech stuff during COVID.

        2. Where’s the Orchestra?*

          There’s also a group of people that may like to work from home – but they just don’t have the space or infrastructure to do it (one of my coworkers lives in a 100 year old building – smaller spaces and really cruddy internet made the WFH at the start of the pandemic not good for her).

          1. ContentMayBeIrregular*

            Remote work doesn’t have to literally mean “from home.” It could be a library, coffee shop, or cowork space. It was just during the pandemic that we had to stay in our own homes.

      2. SoloKid*

        “dismaying” seems like an overreaction. Reimbursing better desks/chairs/laptops you will use for 8 hrs is a good use of that savings. But if I were a business, I’d just tell you to come onsite if it was a hardship to “dedicate a space in your home”. Just like I’d expect to be laughed at if I expected my employer to reimburse commutes as “dedicating time out of my day”.

        I could see a slight argument for an employer covering more expensive reliable internet if you choose to go with a cheaper option. But mostly I don’t see that as different than requiring employees to pay for clothes that meet a dress code or a reliable car to commute to work. (And I do understand those ARE real hardships. Overall not a single company’s problem to solve though.)

        1. rachel in nyc*

          yeah, one of my friend’s was just telling me that (as expected) large companies- like amazon- had announced that if you are going to be permanently WFH that your pay will be based on where you home is. So if you previously commuted into NYC and got NYC pay, you may see a decrease in pay if you live in the Poconos or moved to Paris, TX.

          Whether that would mean an increase if you moved from Paris, TX to NYC was not clear. I’m gonna guess no…

          2. The_artist_formerly_known_as_Anon-2*

            It also has a bearing on any state and local taxes you’d pay.

            I have worked at home for the last seven years. Because my “base” is Massachusetts, my earnings/bonuses, etc. are subject to 5% Mass. state income tax. THERE IS NO WAY AROUND THAT.

            But if I were to physically relocate to New Hampshire, which has no state income tax, my salary wouldn’t have been adjusted (I negotiated that, after all) BUT I wouldn’t have to pay tax to Massachusetts.

            NOW – before someone says “my cousin worked in Mass. but lived in New Hampshire” — yes, if your work base is in Massachusetts you pay state income tax to Mass. for what you earned there.

            It would be understandable that if you moved from Paris, Texas to New York City, there would be a pay adjustment not just for your higher living costs, but your taxes as well.

          3. AcademiaNut*

            That’s absolutely going to be standard. Companies in HCOL areas pay high salaries to attract people because the cost of living is high. If they don’t need to pay a premium salary to offset that to attract good workers, they won’t. I don’t see that as evil, any more than the fact that low COL areas don’t pay Silicon Valley salaries – salaries have always depended on location. And the inflated salaries in low COL has a destabilizing effect on the cheaper areas, as wealthy city folk with big salaries move in and drive up the prices for the locals who are making local salaries.

            I actually suspect that eventually jobs in HCOL areas will pay a premium for people who are needed in office, and a lower telecommuting rate for remote work, regardless of location, on the grounds that the employee can choose where to live.

            1. Where’s the Orchestra?*

              You know the adjusted salaries is not all that different from what the government already does – you get a base salary and then a cost of living allowance, so the salary you get doesn’t crazy inflate over a low cost of living local employer salary.

    4. Pool Lounger*

      My partner’s giant company was slow to come around, I think because of this. Business rental agreements can be for multiple years, and they also own real estate in several expensive cities. I’m sure they’re not clear on what to do now and in the future with that space. Irony is that much of it was hotdesking anyway—you couldn’t all come in each day if you wanted a desk!

    5. CouldntPickAUsername*

      it’s control, it’s all about control. They don’t want to give it up. They got people to stuck around while dangling the carrot and get to now yank it away and make themselves feel big.

    6. Klio*

      Some companies can not easily shed office space and now need to make sure their buildings aren’t left mostly empty.

    7. Allonge*

      There must be quite a few companies who are not yet certain about whether going full remote will work for them and with what consequences. There are plenty of people who prefer remote but also plenty who do want to work in an office, or with a company that has an office – it’s not that easy a decision.

      1. LC*

        I see this with my company – there’s definitely a mix of what people want to do, and there are certainly roles that would benefit from being in-person (sales, for example – being able to hear others on pitch calls). It’s definitely more complicated than I think some of my colleagues realize.

  3. Julia*

    LW 3, for what it’s worth, I disagreed with the answer and the commentariat consensus on your letter. I am currently a student, so I know many other students as well. I can’t really see any of us showing up to an interview with earbuds, a hoodie, messy background and no questions – even those of us who don’t read AAM. True, I’m a bit older, but even when I was younger I remember obsessing over my suit jacket and whether to bring a notebook or a single sheet of paper with my questions, etc.

    I just felt like maybe a couple of these things would be fine but all of them is too much. I probably wouldn’t hire the guy. I hope I’m wrong and he works out though.

    All of which is to say: don’t feel too foolish or privilege-blind or all of that. Reasonable minds can disagree about this stuff, even though it sometimes doesn’t feel that way when an entire comment section coalesces around a take.

    1. CupcakeCounter*

      The hoodie was the big, glaring NOPE from me. Everything else I could have overlooked but he should have at least put on a collared shirt of some kind. Even if you don’t have the privilege of a mentor or familial experience, damn near every TV show and movie shows people dressed up for job interviews.

      1. Julia*

        Yeah, that and the lateness are like, huh? At a certain point it’s not about interview convention, but just about ordinary social convention. Teachers in school ask students to remove their hats and hoods. Teenagers know hoodies telegraph certain social messages, just like having your hair in your face; this isn’t interview-specific. I used to wear a hoodie in high school to hide from the world.

          1. RebelwithMouseyHair*

            It’s still way too casual (says Rebel, wearing a hoodie, but in the comfort of my own home, I’d never wear a thing like that to an office)

        2. 'Tis Me*

          I had an Idlewild hoodie as a teen (not sure where it ended up). I rather liked going to school with “IDLE” emblazoned across my chest in big letters, even though I’m in the UK, had school uniform, and it therefore spent most of the day in my locker.

          It wouldn’t have occurred to me to wear it to a job interview. “I would like to work for you and will bring my best professional self to your company” and “While I recognise this is objectively a good school, it is also very much an ablist crammer and I have Feelings about your attitude towards treating your students as league table statistics rather than as people you have a duty of care towards, and therefore wish to indicate my dislike via a small act of rebellion which has plausible deniability and no repercussions for me” are somewhat different attitudes, requiring different sartorial choices.

      2. Where’s the Orchestra?*

        The hoodie was my only really big “nope” from the description in the original letter. Earbuds – well that’s all I’ve got by way of headset (and I’m decades past HS). Flags/posters on the wall – in my first two dorm rooms there was exactly one way to realistically set up the desks – so you would be seeing your bed behind you on camera (definitely not the best, but that’s where the Internet jacks were, so you did what you had to).

        Being late and not apologizing wasn’t awesome – but he may have been dealing with a connectivity issue with too many people online at the same time in the dorm building.

        But even TV and movies show people wearing a nicer/collared shirt for work (unless a uniform is provided). That I think is fair to think a student should know to do.

    2. Jennifer Strange*

      What’s wrong with earbuds? And as others pointed out in the original letter, due to the pandemic the student may not have had many other clothing/background options. I’m glad the LW chose to extend grace considering this is an odd time for us all.

      1. Julia*

        Yeah, I would’ve edited if there were an edit button – there was nothing wrong with the earbuds; I meant to reference the lateness but I was staring at the word earbuds and wrote that instead.

      2. Yorick*

        The student owns a shirt that isn’t a hoodie. Even a clean t-shirt would look more professional than a hoodie.

        1. pancakes*

          They wouldn’t necessarily have had it handy if they did. In the early days of the pandemic, some schools welcomed students back to campus and swiftly locked everyone down. There are probably more than a few students who arrived with plans to have their families visit soon with the rest of their belongings but weren’t able to make it happen.

        2. Jennifer Strange*

          If all they have with them at the dorm are, say, shirts with writing on them (graphic tees) they may not have known which one would look less professional. It’s not always an obvious choice.

    3. Xavier Desmond*

      Just wondering, what is the issue with earbuds. I understand the rest but not sure would even think of commenting on an interviewee having earbuds.

      2. cubone*

        I’d forgotten about this letter, but gosh I would love a whole discussion on the “etiquette” and responses to earbuds/headphones. I started a new job and not a single one of my colleagues wears any type of headphones for virtual calls (still fully remote). Several of them have asked why I’m hearing a headset and the first time I struggled not to blurt out “um, so you can hear me better…?”. Like, what?

        Now I’m reminded of this letter and realizing that maybe they have some of the same reactions the LW did! Also, I thought the reactions was mostly just a funny quirk, but I told my partner who was like “wait, NO ONE wears headsets or earbuds on calls?!?!?”. They definitely agree that you can’t expect people to use equipment that hasn’t been provided by the company, but they work in tech and said at their company they’ve never been on a single call without who isn’t using earbuds or a headset, and found it genuinely bizarre that not a single other person used them at my company.

        I really did not expect people to have such STRONG and conflicting opinions on earbuds/headsets!

        1. TiffIf*

          I find it so weird that people doing meetings over Zoom/Teams/Whatever DON’T use headsets. The sound is usually better, the mic is usually better, and there’s no disruptions to or from other occupants…

          Nearly everyone in my company that I have been on meetings with the past year + has used headsets. We are provided a headset (we transitioned to soft phones pre-covid so when they removed the desk phones they provided everyone with headsets) but most people I notice have one of their own that they prefer over the work issues one.

          1. Where’s the Orchestra?*

            When the company provides, you use what you get. For a student, I totally can understand a decent set of Bluetooth earbuds, because they can probably do double duty and link to both the computer for class/meetings/interviews and to the phone for calls/music.

            1. allathian*

              My employer provides a headset, which I refuse to use because I hate over-ear headsets and haven’t used them since I quit working for a call center. Over-ear ones are certainly more hygienic for multiple users, but as I’m the only one who uses mine… Earbuds only for me, they came with my work-issued cellphone. Neither the headset nor the earbuds are noise canceling ones, but so far I’ve managed well enough without. Luckily my employer couldn’t care less.

              Especially with people working in shared spaces, headsets of some sort are essential so that others in your living space don’t have to hear both sides of your meeting. I really don’t understand the anti-headset sentiment.

      3. PT*

        I didn’t get the earbud issue either. I have an old bluetooth headset from my first smartphone and a new set of earbuds with an in-line microphone. Unless I’m using my laptop’s mike and risking picking up all of the ambient noise in the house, those are really my two options for virtual meetings and I am a grown ass adult.

        1. Allypopx*

          I hate hate hate hate when people put the headset mic right up to their mouths and I get their breathy mouth sounds and it’s so LOUD so I always cringe when I see earbuds lol but if they’re just chilling there idc

          1. PT*

            I do not do that. Usually I have the reverse, where the mike has shifted away from my mouth and I didn’t realize it and people can’t hear me. But sitting up straight and repeating yourself once in awhile is far less annoying than creepy horror movie breathing every time you talk.

        2. Krabby*

          Not to mention, any time the people I work with don’t have headsets, I can hear my own voice because their mic picks up their speakers. Drives me crazy!

    4. Richard Hershberger*

      The lack of questions I will give you, but a college student dressing like a college student in his own dorm room? Yes, a collared shirt would have been thoughtful (or a sign that he is a nerd–guess what I routinely wore while in college?) but given how many working adults have trouble with virtual dress codes, I wouldn’t hold this against him.

    5. Xantar*

      I want to gently suggest that just because something seems obvious to you doesn’t mean it’s obvious to everyone. Moreover, an internship is exactly the time to learn this kind of thing.

    6. MeowMixers*

      I was a student like 5 years ago, and an older one too. While I had the sense to dress well for interviews, not many other students did. It’s just not that intuitive for some. Wearing a hoodie does not equal unhirable. I know so many people who will dress nice and then thrown on a hoodie. It’s not that odd. It’s totally not unreasonable to recognize that some people have the privilege of knowing. I think you will understand this more when you are out in your career.

      1. Where’s the Orchestra?*

        I will agree here that being a bit older (and at this age even five years older can be a generation almost in the different experience level you have) puts a different slant on things. My spouse was an older college student (6 to 7 years older). They had a slightly nicer car, way different clothes and music tastes, and were able to get a more professional part time job (because they had a bit more prior work experience).
        All of that didn’t make spouse better than the straight from HS group – just different, with different experiences to draw on.

    7. MCMonkeybean*

      I feel like this was thoroughly covered last time, but it makes no sense to think someone shouldn’t be wearing earbuds on a call when they are presumably wearing them specifically *because* of the call. They are likely what is allowing him to hear and be heard clearly. For many people, the earbuds that came with their phone are probably the only headphones they own.

      But anyway, the fact that “reasonable minds can disagree about this stuff” is kind of the point. That not everyone thinks about it the same way, so have some space for the people who haven’t been exposed to the same ideas as you. Sure people should ideally clean up their space and present themselves nicely, but a lot of students haven’t been taught that yet or just literally don’t have the ability to do so. Interns are there to learn, so it’s not super fair to judge them for things they haven’t had the chance to learn yet!

  5. middle name danger*

    LW4, your not-very-exciting update makes me very happy. I hope their business thrives and they’re still, ahem, enjoying each other’s company.

  6. Observer*

    #3- Good for you for extending some grace (both to the intern and yourself.) And even more cheers for this: “ I reached out to him to schedule a second interview and let him know my expectations in terms of dress code and engagement.

    It’s really nice to know that you took something positive away from the comments.

  7. Bookworm*

    Thanks for the updates, LWs!

    I’m so sorry your company is doing that to you, LW1. Seems like great timing that Alison just asked if people would consider quitting if they had to return to the office. I do wish you the best of luck and hope maybe you might write in with a better update. All the same, hoping the best for you.

  8. The_artist_formerly_known_as_Anon-2*

    #2 – that’s a common situation in the IS/IT world; if you’re working for a company that pays top dollar, you may find out that others don’t pay what you’re making — some may alter the landscape, so to speak, others won’t do that. And
    it’s better when people DON’T continue the dialog, knowing you won’t take a massive pay cut.

    #4 – who the hell cares if people play with whips and chains? I wouldn’t care what they do in their off-hours; and also, I don’t want others to be concerned about what I do on my own time.

    #5 – you were VERY lucky that people investigated what was really happening AND took corrective action. More often than not, upper management will back up middle and lower management and follow their train right over the cliff… rather than fix what needs fixin’.

    1. Soup of the Day*

      Re: #4, I think the issue was not the coworker’s extracurricular interests, but rather that they were documented in detail on her public Facebook page. It’s certainly not her job to make people comfortable with her lifestyle, but I would also feel pretty uncomfortable if I looked up a coworker on social media (possibly to friend them!) and suddenly knew many intimate details about their personal life. I don’t think that’s the sort of information people usually expect to see on a public social media profile.

      Of course, it would be my job to manage that discomfort, especially if I had gone poking around for this information… but it sounds like they were posts the coworker was tagged in and not something she chose to post on her own, so I think it was valid to wonder if LW should bring it to the coworker’s attention while recognizing that it could be super awkward to do so! I don’t go on Facebook often, so I would be mortified if friends were potentially tagging me in personal things without my knowledge that everyone else could see.

      1. RebelwithMouseyHair*

        I found a feature where people can’t tag me, they need my permission first, which I never give, so I’m never tagged.

      2. The_artist_formerly_known_as_Anon-2*

        People used to get upset with me in here but I’ll say it again —

        BEFORE YOU PLAY ON YOUR SMART PHONE, PLAY IT SMART.

        Anyway – having that stuff on your social media could PREVENT you from getting a job – the first place many hiring managers go , when your resume crosses his/her desk, is your social media.

        And posting about some things could get your application ash-canned.

    2. Teach*

      Regarding #4, ugh, EVERYONE cares when it’s a teacher. Teachers have been fired for much less than that… I guarantee if parents knew they would have been pushing to strip her off her teaching license entirely so she would have to leave the profession. As a teacher, it’s just really really disheartening.

      1. Mental Lentil*

        Yep. Teachers are not allowed to have a personal life.

        I do not miss that at all.

        1. Krabby*

          Yep, some kids found out my high school vice principal used to be an underwear model and posted a bunch of the pictures around the school. Even though they were all pretty tame for underwear modelling and they were from 20+ years before, a bunch of the local PTA moms almost got him fired.

          I don’t even want to think what would have happened if the VP had been a woman.

          1. Where’s the Orchestra?*

            Worked summers in HS (two decades ago now) as a summer day camp aid. Some of the moms tried to get me fired shortly before the summer after my senior year started. The reason – I went and got my ears pierced for a second time (both holes are in the lobes and normal sizes). Fortunately the principal just looked at them and pulled out a picture of his wife – whose ears were also double pierced, same as mine. They did clutch their pearls all the same for the whole summer, and sigh dramatically if I happen to walk past them.

    3. Where’s the Orchestra?*

      With number 4 – honestly the main issue to me was it’s a teacher who really needed better privacy settings on their social media page. Kids can be way too cruel – and you really don’t want to ever give the pearl clutching PTA group something to fuss about.

  9. Name Required*

    Glad you took away some positives, LW#3! I’m curious as to why you are taking on an intern if you’re going to be on maternity leave during his internship — close supervision and mentorship seems like a prerequisite for a successful internship.

    1. OP 3*

      Internships are part of what we do! We take on an intern every year and we get grant funds specifically for the position. I can’t say “no” to my boss without explaining we’re trying to conceive (and what if I don’t get pregnant or it takes a long time?). My office is going to have to figure it out just like they’ll figure out the rest of my role.

      1. Temperance*

        I think this is more than reasonable. Why would you potentially expose yourself as a woman TTC before you’re pregnant? It’s a great way to potentially lose out on opportunities and cool projects.

        Think about it: it might even lead to a subconscious bias against you. Are they going to pick you for the cool new Big Project, knowing you might be out for months in the near future, or are they going to pick the dude down the hall who obviously isn’t going to get pregnant?

  10. Lucious*

    LW1: it’s time to go. A firm that disregards its staff’s health & input is unworthy of your time & dedication. Please act accordingly in the months to come by “firing” your employer for a better one.

  11. Mimmy*

    *standing ovation for OP5’s employer*

    As someone else pointed out, it’s not often that we see upper management taking notice when employees quit and/or want to quit due to poorly managed practices. So glad this job turned out to be everything you’d hoped for!

  12. CountryLass*

    I have a question about #4. The original letter mentioned a man as her slave, but this updated said that the former slave is now the colleague’s wife? Have I missed something, or is this terminology used in the Dom/Sub world to portray the generally seen ‘submissive’ part of the marriage?

    It doesn’t make a difference to me, I just like to learn things and make sure I understand stuff.

    2. a*

      Maybe LW changed the gender in the first letter for anonymity and forgot it in the update?

    3. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Ah! The LW included this in her update and I didn’t realize it would cause confusion not to include it:

      “(I don’t think it’s necessary to mention in my update but for the sake of clarity, the slave’s pronouns have changed since my previous post)”

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