open thread – May 19-20, 2023

by Alison Green on May 19, 2023

It’s the Friday open thread!

The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on any work-related questions that you want to talk about (that includes school). If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to take your questions to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer.

You may also like:
{ 1,145 comments }

{ 1,145 comments… read them below }

  1. WW*

    I’ve been at my job for a year and a half. At the 1-year mark, I asked about a performance review. My manager said that the company wasn’t prepared to give any performance reviews, but “company wide performance reviews” would be coming in the Q1 of 2023.

    Kind of unusual – it’s not like the entire company was hired at the same time, so to do a big band of performance reviews at once seemed odd, but I rolled with it.

    Well, we’re now well into Q2 and I just got my review. It wasn’t a meeting, but a pdf document emailed to me with my manager and CEO’s signature. Here’s what it said:

    WW provides excellent and timely work. Keep it up.

    That’s it. That’s the whole review. No mention of compensation increase. (I’ve never had a raise working here – neither a merit raise or a cost of living raise with this crazy inflation.)

    I’m pretty insulted. I waited over six months for…Two sentences? I’ve been putting a lot of hours into this startup and am starting to feel burnt out, but this really puts me over the edge.

    1. Be Gneiss*

      I once got a review that consisted solely of “I don’t know what you do, but you’re doing a hell of a job of it, so keep up the good work.”
      It sucks.

    2. ThatGirl*

      Every company I’ve ever worked at has done annual reviews at the same time for everyone, regardless of hire date. So that part doesn’t strike me as weird.

      But your company’s actual process does – can you ask for a 1:1 with your manager and ask for more in-depth feedback, or what you might need to do to get a merit increase?

      1. JelloStapler*

        This. I’m used to that time of year all at once, but we have a long form and a 1:1 with our boss.

        Then we get to see if our merit of busting our butts to “go above and beyond” gets us a whopping 2% raise. :p

      2. Capy*

        +1 this! My company does reviews at the same time every year. I would definitely ask to have a 1:1 with your manager for direct feedback.

    3. Jess R.*

      I would be upset, too! That’s a wildly useless performance review, at best. I mean, I suppose it’s nice to know your work is “excellent and timely,” but that feels more like a mid-semester report card comment for a middle schooler than a professional performance review. I seriously hope you’re job searching — this is clearly not a place that supports your professional growth (not even in the context of their own work, which is extra weird).

    4. Shopping is my cardio*

      My company does the same. One massive time where everyone gets a review. With my last boss I don’t really get a review either just an email with a pdf. But I do get more than 2 sentences and a raise. All this to say that the lack of review, in my opinion, is less upsetting than no merit increase after a year and a half. In this job market I would expect an increase, even if it is modest seeing that you have worked there for only 18 months.

      1. WW*

        Nice to hear that other companies opt for the massive reviews at once. So we’re not totally out of touch on that front.

        Yeah, I am definitely more upset about the lack of compensation. This has triggered a job search immediately.

        1. londonedit*

          The company I work for does annual appraisals for everyone at the same time, too. It’s part of an official HR-led process – if you’ve been with the company under six months when appraisal time comes round then you wait until the following year. We also don’t have pay rises based on merit – everyone gets a cost of living pay rise once a year, and there’s also a company bonus scheme tied to overall performance, but no one gets a ‘you did particularly well so we’re giving you a pay rise’ as a result of their annual appraisal.

        2. Tio*

          Yeah, most of the companies have a regular yearly review, that’s not the weird part.

          The weird/bad part is the two sentences. You mention its a start up, so sounds like they have not ironed this process out at all and it’s probably not a high priority for them. Since your reviews can affect raises, I would be out too.

          1. Momma Bear*

            They may still be figuring out their process it’s still in the startup phase. I worked for a startup that had several different review processes while they figured out what actually worked. I also found out that since they bid everyone on a contract, you were stuck at that pay rate for the duration of the contract so I didn’t get any raises while a contract was “active.” It was weird. Startups are quirky.

            I think the bigger problem is the statement that OP is feeling burned out and underappreciated and needs to discuss that with their Boss.

        3. Observer*

          Job searching is not a bad idea. But you shouldn’t be insulted. This is totally not personal.

          On the other hand, in addition to job searching, is there any reason you can’t go back to your boss and say “You say I’ve been doing well. I’d like a raise.” And explain why you think you should get one. And if they say that they can’t do it, ask when do they see it happening, and what do you need to do to make it happen.

          Again, this is not *instead* of job searching, but *in addition*. If they come back with something you are ok with, you can stop searching.

          1. Momma Bear*

            Agreed. This warrants at least a discussion with the boss for clarity so that OP is making an informed vs purely reactive decision. If they find something better, great. But if they’re feeling upset and haven’t communicated the problem, boss can’t fix what they don’t know.

        4. I have RBF*

          IMO, if your review is good but they don’t give you a raise that keeps up with inflation, they have essentially said “You only deserve an effective pay cut due to inflation, because we think you are a useful sucker.”

          Time to start looking, definitely, because no increase after 18 months means you’ve lost about 5% in buying power.

    5. Heather*

      Ask for a 1 on 1 with the manager and bring your “performance review” and ask for a raise in line with the current market. Offer specifics about what you have done and show them your review. Should be all it takes… To either get the raise or show them what a horrid process they are using. Either way, good luck.

    6. I should really pick a name*

      Company-wide reviews have been pretty common in places I’ve worked.
      Depending on when someone started, they might not be included in the first one that happens after they’re hired.

      But yeah, that review sounds like bullshit.

    7. EMP*

      Agreeing that it’s incredibly normal to have all the reviews done at the same time (most companies have a “review cycle” that lines up somewhere with their annual budget cycle), but it sounds like your workplace has other issues. Do you want more frequent feedback, like from a regular 1-1 with your manager? Or do you feel like you get good feedback but aren’t being recognized for it? If you’re getting burnt out and they aren’t paying attention to employees, I’m not sure I’d put all that much more effort into this job.

    8. The Cosmic Avenger*

      Our company also does everyone’s reviews at once. When we were smaller, it was scattered throughout the year by hire date, but with things changing from one fiscal or contract year to the next, it forced us to get more systematic and efficient about it and do them all at the same time. There’s some threshold at which you don’t get a review, I want to say it’s 6 months. 18 months seems like a long time to go without a raise, maybe it’s 3 months. Anyway, it’s in the handbook now, so it should be explained when you’re hired, I hope.

    9. Bagpuss*

      Yes review at the same time for everyone is fairly normal – we do that. But we di also do 3 and 6 month reviews for new starters, (the 3 month is the end of the probation period)

      But I agree, ask to meet with your actual manager for a more in depth discussion about pay etc.

    10. Momma Bear*

      Take a breath. I would ask for a one-on-one follow up with your boss for whatever clarification you might want. You could just say you appreciated the positive comment but it was a little succinct and you have a few more questions/would like to touch base in general about your work and goals. If you need clarification about the compensation, that would also be the time to do it. This is your first review with this company, so you didn’t know/don’t know what to expect.

      We also do our reviews at the same time, I think just for sanity sake for Payroll. If you weren’t here long, then it’s more of a mid-year review kind of expectation and everything is prorated.

    11. DataSci*

      Everywhere I’ve been has always done annual performance reviews at the same time for everyone – it’s much easier to track that way. It does mean you may wait a few extra months if you get hired right before review season (since they won’t know enough about your performance to say anything) but it’s the usual system. You should be able to have regular check ins with your boss, though!

      1. WW*

        Yeah, after reading the comments I totally get that annual company wide performance reviews aren’t as unusual as I thought.

        Really what’s upsetting to me, and another commenter mentioned this, is that I feel undervalued and overworked. I waited extra months to get some solid feedback and hopefully an increased compensation and this was more disappointing than nothing. I really pulled some long hours, and it feels like morale company wide is pretty low. I can’t be the only one who got a review of this stature.

        1. MigraineMonth*

          Though it was very short, your review did state that you are doing an excellent job (with no qualifiers). Schedule a 1-on-1, write a list of all your accomplishments, and make the case for your raise!

        2. Some words*

          The company I work for splits the review and the salary changes. We receive our reviews and then generally have to wait a couple weeks to hear about compensation changes. It might be helpful to ask if that’s how your company handles this too.

          1. Theon, Theon, it rhymes with neon*

            Same, my performance reviews and compensation reviews have always been at different times of year. I don’t think I’ve ever had them tied together (in fact, I’ve had companies explicitly say that they’re not). That doesn’t mean I haven’t been able to negotiate for good raises by pointing to my excellent performance, and it doesn’t mean my boss doesn’t take my performance into account when deciding on the raise amount.

            (Seconding everyone’s comments that I’ve never worked anywhere that performance reviews weren’t all at the same time.)

            I’ve also definitely had useless reviews with useless bosses, and good reviews with good bosses.

    12. Generic Name*

      Yeah, I’d be pissed too. I once got a review that was similarly brief, except it wasn’t a typed up and signed document. The “hr” person had a one-inch strip of yellow ledger notebook paper that she read from. It was bizarre. Like, why bother?

    13. Llama Llama*

      The company I work for does do annual reviews and actually splits the review from the salary change. We do our reviews and rate how our people did. Then based of that review rate salary and bonuses are determined. This happens 3 months after the fiscal year end. People are prorated if they didn’t get a raise the last time because of timing of hire.

      That being said, it is with employee input.
      It is not a one sided conversation. Schedule a meeting with your manager!

    14. JustaTech*

      My last performance review the conversation part with my boss was “You know you’re doing great, this is your time to give me feedback.”
      Oh come on boss, don’t drop “give me feedback” at 9am on Monday with no warning!
      And it’s not like I’m ever going to actually say “you need to stand up for yourself and us more” because I know it’s more complicated than that.

      I will say that the written part of the review (that gets sent up the chain) was much more detailed and included the phrase “JustaTech’s knowledge is encyclopedic” on two separate projects (with an undertone of “only JustaTech knows where all the data/reports are, don’t let her go!”). I’ve always wanted to think of myself as Encyclopedia Brown.

    15. Ghostwriting Is Real Writing*

      I can understand your frustration – I’d be more than a little upset at what appears to be a performative review rather than thoughtful feedback. You mentioned it was a start up. That might be all the explanation you need. Do you have a product on the market? Are there revenues outside of venture / founder funding? If it is early stage, it might be unrealistic to expect a raise. Did you get equity shares? Was there anything in the offer letter about profit sharing when the company reaches a certain milestone? Working ungodly hours and being underpaid in expectation of future returns is just sort of the start up world. But a review should actually be a review. They owe you that.

  2. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

    Anybody have thoughts/experiences with Strengthsfinder, DiSC, or similar that you might recommend? I did MBTI once at a prior job and wasn’t too impressed with it, but I’m hoping to find something that will be useful professional development as part of a retreat for teams that cross several functional areas.

    1. Chidi has a stomach ache*

      My org is all-in on DiSC profiles. I bring a health skepticism to this stuff, but I do appreciate that our facilitators seem to stress it as a tool for reflection — meaning, the traits ascribed to you aren’t written in stone, and you can identify places where you may not match the typical profile. I do find that DiSC also feels centered more on interpersonal interactions than about personality, which is a bit more useful for a work context.

      1. Panicked*

        Same. We do the DISC for everyone we onboard. It’s not a “fix all” solution, but I do think it helps people communicate better.

        I personally like the Five Voices better than the DISC, but it’s not as well known.

        They can all be helpful tools when used correctly. That being said, none of them are going to fit perfectly for everyone and business decisions shouldn’t be made based on someone’s profile.

        1. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

          Adding Five Voices to the list of options to research! Much appreciated.

      2. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

        That was kind of my issue with MBTI, it kind of felt like workplace astrology, lol. Tools for reflection are exactly what I’d like, I’m hoping for something that will spark thoughtfulness about how you can leverage your talents and would definitely like to avoid the “personality quiz” vibe if at all possible. Thanks for the input!

        1. CityMouse*

          My personal experience with my org is they did these personality sessions in lieu of actually useful training. So instead of being trained on how to use the mentoring software functions or how to do the assessments for mentees, we instead did DISC, which didn’t help me with the actual tasks I needed to learn.

          So my very dirty lens is sometimes management will bring in this stuff for “leadership training” instead of actually providing useful tailored training to the role.

          1. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

            Yeah, this retreat isn’t intended to be specific functional training and isn’t meant to make up for lack of it, either. I’ve seen that happen before, though, and it’s hard to ask people to care about an exercise like this one if there are deficits in other areas that are affecting morale. I don’t think that’s the case in our office but is something to keep an ear out for. Appreciate your input!

      3. Chauncy Gardener*

        I’m a fan of DISC as a means to understanding how different people communicate

      4. Lily Rowan*

        Yes, same here. I will also say that my DiSC profile is the only one of these things I’ve ever done that actually reflected my experience at work.

        I did laugh (and also try to step up) when I got a notification about my new supervisor after a re-org that opened with, “[New Supervisor] is MUCH MORE ORGANIZED than you.” Fair enough, and good to know!

    2. Box of Kittens*

      My previous company used Disc, and my current company uses the PI. I and my teams have found both helpful, especially when talking about different communication styles at work. I have found it works better when your team is into personality typing, which mine is. The PI is a bit more in depth than the disc, and we use it across the entire organization.

      1. Tongue Cluckin' Grammarian*

        My company is all in on Predictive Index too. They put a lot of weight on it.
        I appreciate that it has an opportunity to show how you are as a person, and who you are at work (might not be the same, assuming you answer truthfully, of course), but I don’t live by it personally. I think it’s often being used as a replacement for actually learning about coworkers/employees and learning to work with them yourself, versus making assumptions.

        1. Venus*

          The fundamental problems with these tools is that people fill them out based on who they think they are, and on who they want to be, and sometimes that can glaringly not be who they are at the time. It’s why they are so awful as a hiring tool, because it doesn’t really assess the person.

          It can be useful as a way of understanding that not everyone around you reacts the same way to problems, and there can be good uses, but as you say it can be used as a substitute for better options.

          1. The Shenanigans*

            Agreed. I find astrology more convincing than really any of these tools, lol. Also, if they are used in hiring, people are going to check the boxes they think the company wants them to, not something that reflects themselves at all.

            The only questionnaire I saw that made any kind of impression was one for one of my undergrad classes that asked pretty extensive questions about your feelings about such tests and incorporated those answers into the profile. I found that interesting.

    3. Newly minted higher ed*

      I had to the DISC for some PD at my current position, and didn’t really get much out of it at the time. It pretty much confirmed my existing interpersonal, work-related values I had already noticed, but it did help me put into words where I was personally and help me think more explicitly about how to embrace elements of myself going forward in relation to the values and traits the assessment purports to measure. And then life happened and I forgot about it entirely, until I went on the job market this spring and realized that the language I learned about some elements of myself actually benefitted me to speak more explicitly in answer to various interview questions about autonomy vs collaboration.

      Like the other ones I’ve done, I think one gets out of it what one puts into it, and it’s interesting to see written out a description of traits one has. I wouldn’t have it be the end point, but a launching point to help people lay out goals and strategies going forward? It ight be useful, though the certified DISC trainer my company used didn’t do that for us.

      1. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

        This is super helpful input, thank you! Something that can be useful in how people are thinking about and articulating their own skills and strengths is exactly what I’m looking for. My expectations aren’t that this is going to effect a sea change or address any dysfunction as some people in this thread have experienced, but if it sparks some discussion within and across the teams in the short term, it’s a success. If it pays off in a situation like yours in the longer term, all the better. Agree about getting out what you put in.

    4. ThatGirl*

      My company does Discover Yourself, which is color blocks. It’s mostly about communication styles — the idea is to help coworkers figure out the best ways to approach each other and also learn more about themselves. I have described it as “horoscopes for business” because it seems a little woo-y and silly to me, but there are times it has come in useful too.

      1. AustenFan*

        As a scholar of communication, I would really like it if these measures were validated in either the communication studies or psychology literature. They are not, so I have a heathy skepticism of all of them.

    5. CityMouse*

      I had to do Disc for a work project. I thought it was a complete joke. I have yet to run into a personality test that the response/result isn’t obvious, so the result is clearly just whatever you were trying to get the test result to be. Honestly just tell me what result you want on these things and I’ll answer it that way.

    6. Polar Vortex*

      My company is a big fan of Insights. And as someone who could take or leave a lot of these personality type tests and has taken most of them, I actually found this one interesting. It definitely helped identify how people communicate that I had already picked up on – what people prefer data impact vs emotional impact, etc. It just helped to clarify better ways to communicate with coworkers across the company, and the paperwork you get about yourself was pretty spot on for me and helped to clarify some areas to work on, how I can better communicate with some coworkers who are the exact opposite of me, etc. (I had guessed down to the spot in the circle where I’d be, but I know myself pretty darn well.)

      So that’s my two cents at least.

      1. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

        Appreciate this! Adding Insights to the list of options to research.

      2. Laika*

        I liked Insights too. My partner and I met at work, and had been seeing each other for a while when they offered Insights for the whole company. We ended up as direct opposites on the wheel haha. We traded profiles and chatted about the results, and reading through the “how to communicate with your opposite” section was genuinely helpful for me, even if there are definitely still whiffs of workplace horoscopism in it.

        It must have taught us *something* because we still use language from it as a quick shorthand nearly a decade later!

    7. NeedRain47*

      I thought strengthsfinder was interesting, and I learned a lot about the psychology of focusing on the things you’re good at and becoming great at them, instead of trying to improve at things you’ll only be average at best.

      At the time I did it, the head of the organization was encouraging everyone to do so and perhaps other peoples’ managers genuinely cared about making them more engaged with their jobs. But my direct supervisor did not care one bit what my strengths were and it ended up coming off as “find out your strengths, but you don’t get to use them!” (I also learned, as part of that session, that people whose supervisors are unengaged hate their jobs more than people who actively dislike their boss.)

    8. Hlao-roo*

      I did a DiSC assessment at one company, and I found it middling useful. The things that made it useful were the coordinators of the assessment were clear that:
      – your dominant letter (D/I/S/C) is not the end-all, be-all it’s more of the communication/thinking style you default to and tend to respond best to
      – they gave us tips for how to communicate in each of the “styles,” which was useful because if you’re (for example) an S it’s helpful to see examples of how communicating like an I works

    9. Rick Tq*

      My employer did StrengthFinders twice. The second time was to cover a bunch of new hires.
      The consensus as we went over results as a group was “Janie is a Woo? Of course she is….” Yes, we reviewed our reports as a group. We are a 70 person company so a pretty small group to review and we mostly know each other already.

      No blinding insights, just confirmation of pretty much what we knew about each other.

      1. Beth*

        We did Strengthsfinder once, years ago — VERY small company, under 10 people. I don’t know how much they spent on it, but it did nothing that common sense couldn’t have done better.

        I was glad that they didn’t do it again.

    10. Lynn*

      My org had done Myers-Briggs and some McKinsey one (where you were a guardian, pioneer, or something else) and then Strengths. Strengths was the first one that clicked for me and I realized why I had struggles with certain aspects of my work. I don’t think my org went all the way with Strengths and using it to help balance responsibilities or discuss as a team but I still found it more helpful than most other typologies!

      1. Kevin McCarthy likes my debt ceiling*

        I found Strengths to be enormously helpful to my personal journey and then into my professional journey.

        From, an Analytical – Input- Learner – Harmony – Connectedness person

    11. Tio*

      Our company did DiSC, but while it was at least somewhat interesting, I honestly don’t think it helped much.

    12. Lora*

      I’ve done DISC at one company and StrengthsFinder at another. Neither was very helpful and felt like management was trying to put a bandaid on major Personality Problems as opposed to disciplining offenders who couldn’t get along with other people. When it didn’t magically fix the “communication issues,” they did finally break down and do some management training and get rid of the worse managers.

      I feel like StrengthsFinder would maybe be useful for college students trying to figure out a major/career, or early graduates, early-mid stage folks, but not super helpful for established professionals. If you’ve been doing a job for 30 years and a test says you have the aptitude for it…great, you probably know already. If it says you’re lousy at the skills needed for this career and you need to change to something more suited for your talents then you’re in sort of a crummy position to change and you probably won’t just because a test HR made you take says you should.

      1. introverted af*

        This was exactly the scenario where StrengthsFinder was helpful for me. I took it as part of a team for a college job, and it was really useful to think about what can I do well and how can I use that to contribute to my work and find a good career. I still really like it.

      2. Bess*

        That’s actually StrengthsFinder’s initial intended audience, college students!

        I found my report to be creepily accurate. Not the one with the standard strengths descriptions, but the one where they tailor it to you–so if you and a coworker have the same strength, each of your reports will have a different description of the strength, based on your specific test.

        I did feel it helped me articulate some of the things I did at work and leverage them/be aware of them more. It also helped me identify a strength I didn’t know I had and would have denied previously (the “strategic” designation). It also helped me connect with teammates and understand some of how they ticked a bit better (again, this was mostly in the tailored descriptions rather than their generic blurb for each strength).

    13. Lizzo*

      I took the DiSC assessment as part of a grad school class and did find it very useful (though that was a while ago, so I couldn’t tell you what exactly was good about it). More recently, my spouse had to use the Clifton Strengthsfinder for his graduate program, and I thought the results were much more useful for both work and non-work situations. We were especially amused that the bottom 10 attributes on his results list described me perfectly. Guess this is why we’re a good team.

      If you’re looking for something that isn’t a personality assessment, our team has used the Crucial Conversations book to strengthen communication within and across teams. It’s a short and easy-to-digest book, but best read before the retreat so you can apply what you’ve read when you’re face-to-face.

      1. Lizzo*

        I’ll also add: I find this part of the Clifton Strengthsfinder the most compelling:

        “success in spite of your weaknesses, with concepts and strategies that help you manage — not fix — what you don’t do best so you can focus on getting the most from your strongest CliftonStrengths”

        So often we’re told to work on improving our weaknesses, or to avoid/ignore them altogether. Coping strategies = very good!

    14. what the nope*

      We did strengthsfinder, more as a conversational starting point. Everyone who was comfortable shared their results and we discussed overlaps and complementary differences in our teams/units.
      It was fine. Most folks participated without eye rolls and the follow up conversations led to some helpful team building.

    15. DataSci*

      They made us do Strengths finder at my last job. Somewhere between useless and counterproductive – I had to guess what they wanted to see and answer accordingly rather than being honest, which was very stressful.

      1. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

        That does sound unhelpful. Was this a generally bad management situation where you felt that if your results were “wrong” you’d be penalized for it? Or was it something in the test itself that made you feel this way?

        1. the cat's pajamas*

          Yes, I hate anything like this that is pseudoscientific and automatically shared without my consent. For personal use they are interesting. For team or company wide use I find these very invasive and pigeonholing. I can fake being extroverted for example, but if I were to take an honest MBTI it would come out as extroverted. Now I have to explain myself and/or miss out on potential opportunities for getting labeled as “too shy” or . whatever. This is a more benign example but it sucks. I also hate being forced to share personal data with the companies that make these things without my express consent. If I sign up personally I can use a fake name but when work signs you up it’s your real name. Where is this data going? Who gets to see it from work? etc. It’s so icky.

          We had another MBTI that was expressly described was being “confidential” and “you don’t have to share your answers if you don’t want to”. The great grandboss who decided to use them and valued people only opposite of my type got to see everyone’s results anyway. Then we had an in person meeting where they told everyone to stand on one side of the room for each letter combo. Like F on one side and J on the other. That’s not anonymous anymore… ugh!

          2. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

            Yeah, I wasn’t a fan of MBTI for a few reasons. I was curious about the above poster’s experience with Strengthsfinder because it bills itself as being more about skills/talents than personality, so I’m interested in hearing more about bad experiences with it and how much they line up what I didn’t like about MBTI. The point about third party data collection is a good one to consider in any case.

    16. Garlic Microwaver*

      I actually prefer True Colors. More simplified version of DiSC, which I believe to be complicated.

    17. Yes And*

      I did a lot of these (including Strengthsfinder) in grad school, and I found them all equally useless, reductive, and designed to erase the situational nuance that actually guides most workplace interactions. I’ve read the comments on this thread, and obviously some people feel differently about them. But if you are going to go down this route, please remember that none of these “tests” has any more scientific value than a Buzzfeed “Which Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle are you?” quiz. Use them, if you must, as an entertaining conversation starter, and not as a way to actually sort or (godforbid) evaluate people. And be aware that some of your retreat participants are going to tune out, and you need to be okay with that.

      1. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

        A conversation starter is exactly the goal. I’ve been on the employee side of workshops like these and am aware that these sorts of tests are not scientific.

        The managers in this group all have years of history managing our respective teams and we’re organizing this retreat in response to staff interest in more “in-house” professional development and team building, not because we have any use for it in evaluating them. As with any all-team activity there will be different levels of interest/engagement, which is fine. Any attendees who aren’t interested are still welcome to the catered lunch and change of scenery for the day.

    18. JelloStapler*

      We’ve done it all, multiple times. Then ever actually did anything with it.

    19. lurkyloo*

      Huge fan of Insights. It focusses very much on communication styles and is really easy to remember. Great for team building.

    20. sb51*

      If the training focuses on things like “how to communicate to a group with varying styles” and “how to ask to get your communication needs met”, I think any of these would work; if it’s treated as bizness horoscopes, none of them will work.

    21. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

      Blanket thank-you to everyone who replied to this! Y’all have been generous with your experiences, positive and negative, and there’s lots of useful food for thought here. Much appreciated.

    22. Ginger Cat Lady*

      Hate them all, they have no place at work IMO. Stop trying to pigeonhole people and just treat others as individuals worthy of respect.

      1. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

        Nobody’s trying to pigeonhole anyone and I have a lot of respect for my team and our colleagues. I’m looking for tools that will address staff requests for more professional development that’s done as a team, as opposed to everyone going to separate conferences and workshops. These tools may or may not fit that bill and I’m taking negative feedback under advisement along with the positive.

      2. Not A Raccoon Keeper*

        *chuckles to myself about what a Sensing (MBTI) response this is*

        (I kid, I kid! I lived with a group that got very into MBTI for a bit in undergrad, and we got good at predicting MBTI types for friends and acquaintances, and used to this exact response also. I do know now that MBTI was largely made up, but it was good fun for…most of our friends, I guess.)

    23. Ranon*

      My org also likes DISC, I did not find it very valuable but “different people work differently” is like a fundamental core value for me. If your org is full of people who assume everyone else is like them maybe it will be helpful?

      Strengthsfinder has been the most useful to be but mainly because it’s an incredibly useful shortcut to good answers for the strengths/ weaknesses parts of interviews, lol

    24. Anonymous 75*

      my last job was very into the DiSC assessment, like really into it. if I had to hear one more conversation about what damn bird someone was, what bird you thought others were, which bird is better, I was not going to be responsible for my actions.

      I thought it had some value, especially if one was new to assessments or hadn’t ever really done any introspection or critical thinking about themselves, but I (and a few others) had done similar types of assessments in the past so I personally didn’t really get much from, although it can be taken maybe a bit too far

    25. Zephy*

      Short answer: Ugh.

      Longer answer: Personality testing is tricky under the best of circumstances, and a work-related context is very rarely going to be anywhere close to that. In a work context, for good or for ill, people will assume that there is a “correct” answer that they “should” be trying to get, for whatever reason – you’ll get bad data to start, even if your company does pay for a professional who understands how the assessment works to interpret results for you. You’ll save money and get just as much actionable information by handing out copies of the horoscopes from the day’s newspaper.

      Is there a particular goal you have for this retreat? What do you want the participants to come away having learned?

      1. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

        To your question about goals and takeaways: our department comprises a few teams that often collaborate on the projects but have different core functions, so by way of professional development we usually send people to external conferences, seminars, etc. pertinent to their functional area. Conversely, other departments where the different teams do similar work tend to do more internal trainings and workshops in addition to the conferences, etc., so the net professional development opportunity they get from our employer is greater. When we’ve asked what our staff would like out of future professional development programs, we’ve heard that doing more with their peers, and getting to know their colleagues better outside of stand-up meetings, would be welcome. (We already do staff appreciation meals, etc.)

        In terms of takeaways, the goal is a space where we keep it light but substantive enough that people can reflect on their own skills and qualities that they want to leverage professionally, outside of the pressure of the annual performance review, and also get to know their colleagues a little better. Horoscopes may indeed be just as actionable in terms of a springboard because the actual value would be in the reaction/discussion, not what the piece of paper is telling you. But since that’s not a real option, here we are.

        We’re not using these in hiring or anything close to it so I’m really not worried about bad data. People who are into it will be into it, people who aren’t will go through the motions, it’s OK. I’m interested in what these different tools offer and whether there’s anything that can make one or the other more helpful to offer. What I’ve gleaned from these replies is: not really, they can all be useful for the purpose of sparking discussion, and when badly implemented, they can all suck. I’m open to alternative options as well, but I’m coming up short on things that are both work-relevant and relevant to the whole group.

    26. N.J.*

      My university offers strengthsfinder through our professional women’s leadership initiative. It is by far the best of these types of assessments I’ve ever taken. One, it focuses on strengths, two, there is material available to offer reflection etc.

    27. (Not So) New Here*

      I’m surprised no one mention GlobeSmart. I work for a large (>2K) international nonprofit and it’s incredibly helpful in understanding cultural differences in approach to work. You can drill down to specific teams and pairs. As a manager it gives you helpful prompts and look-fors when you have staff who approach situations differently than you and it’s really clear that this is a way to understand each other w/o any one profile being ‘preferred’. There are 5 dimensions including direct/indirect and task/relationship.

    28. I'm Just Here For The Cats!*

      We do strengths finder and create tags for our office doors with our strengths

  3. Dovasary Balitang*

    Currently dealing with my company’s sales department wanting to fight the company’s credit/AR department. Why is it that salespeople don’t seem to care if their B2B customers actually pay for product? Can someone illuminate this for me?

    Is this some long con against capitalism? Because I would probably be okay with that.

    1. darlingpants*

      * because they’re not incentivized to care
      * because your paperwork is annoying and complicated
      * (projecting from my own company but maybe also applies to yours) because finance keeps changing the procedures to make them more and more onerous without once asking the end user what they’d like/how much time it takes them

    2. Mouse*

      Look at how your sales people are incentivized. Do they earn commissions when their customers pay? (Probably not.) Are they considered successful when they sign contracts or secure sales agreements? (Probably.) If their primary measure of success, whether it’s commission-based or just general performance goals, is based on getting people to want to buy your product, then anything that damages their relationships with the clients–like accountants demanding payment–hurts their reputation, their compensation, and their standing in the company.

      1. Picard*

        Our sales people get their commissions when the customer pays so yes they do jump in at times if our AR is having difficulties collecting.

    3. Chauncy Gardener*

      If sales people are compensated regardless of whether or not the customer pays, that sets up the tension between the teams.

    4. Rick Tq*

      What are the sales rep’s incentives for bringing in new business? Sales Management may be pushing the reps to add new customers without any regard to ability to pay long term…

      If the reps get commission on payments they should be more interested in profitability but if they are measured by their management on new customers before the first billing cycle there is your conflict.

    5. Observer*

      Why is it that salespeople don’t seem to care if their B2B customers actually pay for product?

      I doubt that that’s what is going on. Sales people are generally not stupid. They know that customers need to pay.

      So if there is a battle going on, and it’s more than one sales person and a few “special” clients, I’d take a good hard look at how your company’s credit / AT department works.

      Some possible issues I’ve seen:
      ** AR makes it too hard to pay eg they only accept ONE form of payment on ONE schedule, and, worse, it’s not a check post payment. (No one payment set up is universally useful, but this is the one that’s the most likely to be useful.)

      For instance, one vendor we had required prepayment via CC, and didn’t want to issue invoices one a monthly basis. If we had had a sales person who had helped us do an end run around this nonsense, we would probably have stayed with the service. We were perfectly happy to pay, but this set up meant that we HAD to move away from them the minute we could move to a vendor that allowed up to pay in a more reasonable fashion.

      ** AR is doesn’t handle payments well eg If you don’t have all of the correct items on the check, they will deposit the check but they won’t credit the account.

      When something like that happens, AR will play it like the salesperson is trying to let the client not pay, when what the salesperson is just trying to make sure that the client is getting credited for their payment.

      ** Mistakes in billing happen eg Bills are sent for services / items that were never delivered.

      We got a several thousand dollar bill from Verizon for an internet line that was never provisioned. It took YEARS for use to get it resolved. Mostly, they kept on dunning us, and we kept on refusing to pay and it went quiet for a few months. Then they sent it to collections AND said that they couldn’t give us another different service we needed unless we paid for it. The sales person who finally helped us find the right person to clean it up and pushed it through wasn’t trying to help up avoid paying for service. He just understood that despite AR’s messed up records, we’d actually never gotten the service, but we also weren’t going to up our payments if we didn’t get this cleaned up.

      1. Warrior Princess Xena*

        THIS THIS THIS.

        I’d add another one – how are you sending invoices out? If the invoices are being sent by email once a year to the CFO of the organization (true story, this is what one of my clients has done), it’s going to take a lot longer than if you’ve got a nice online portal sending email alerts out once a month where people can log in and select an invoice for payment. People don’t pay stuff they don’t see.

      2. Ann Furthermore*

        These are absolutely all valid reasons, but as a Finance person I’ve seen plenty of shenanigans on the Sales side too.

        One time at a former company, someone in the Sales group booked and invoiced sale in December before the contract had been finalized so the salesperson could get their commission before Christmas. Then she went back in January and initiated a credit memo. Then the contract never got signed.

        So not only did the salesperson get a commission that they hadn’t actually earned, the invoice calculated sales tax, which was then remitted to the state in January. It was a state where the company rarely had any business, so it wasn’t an adjustment that could offset against future tax returns. It was a huge “sale,” so it triggered a significant tax liability, which then sat there for months while the tax person tried to get the state to send a refund.

        2. Waiting on the bus*

          In the one B2B place I worked, the source of the tension was solely the Sales team promising utter nonsense just to close the deal. Their commissions depended on signature of the contract, not payment and, caused them to do some wild deals.

          A bigger contract brought them a higher commission than two smaller contracts (which would end up the same or even more than the big contract put together, but be worth less in commissions when added together). Sales would promise the moon and the stars to the customers and leave cleaning up the mess to the accountants, account managers and even the dev team (when the Sales team promised that feature’s for the software were in development that weren’t even on the roadmap). And no one in the higher ups cared because Head of Sales was buddy-buddy with the founders and convinced them that Sales was the only worthwhile department in the company. The whole thing led to the Sales team becoming something like a villain to all other teams.

    6. JelloStapler*

      I’m sorry, no advice but- I just imagined a rumble. Like West Side story with them meeting in the parking lot snapping their fingers: “When you’re Sales, you’re Sales”…

      no?

  4. Eliza*

    I have a question for folks who work in marketing — I’m about to have a “career” chat with my manager and I’m kind of at a loss for what my future could/should look like.

    Context: Up until about a year ago, I was a journalist. I now do content writing for a medium-sized company, mainly blogs and ghost writing for executives. I really like this position and I’m good at it, but I’m not sure where I can really go from here, career-wise. I like being an individual contributor and I have no real desire to be a manager, but in general I feel very under-educated about what kind of jobs are out there in marketing and what a career progression might look like.

    So my question is: Do you have any recommendations for like, general marketing education? And if you were once a content writer, where did you go from that position?

    I’m also looking into some SEO training, so if you have any recommendations for SEO skill-building that you think are particularly good, I’d love to know that, too.

    1. ThatGirl*

      I was in a similar position as you – four years in journalism transitioned to content writing/content management. I am now a copywriter (in-house). I’ve mostly been self-taught and learned along the way through trial, error, watching, reading and just doing the damn thing. Happy to answer questions you might have.

      Do you have access to LinkedIn Learning through your job? Watching some sort of marketing basics courses will help you get the “business speak” down – learning about things like the marketing funnel, email marketing, SEO, etc.

      1. AnotherGirl*

        Hi! I’m a trained journo went in-house communications strategist/writer for a large non-profit. I do think marketing and comms (writing) are different tracks. Some roles may pull from both, but my team has separate staff who produce the content and who market it. It’s helpful to know the basics so you can work with marketers but doesn’t need to be your role if you don’t want it! My evolution has been in part on developing multi-layered, multi-media comms strategies. What are goals with sharing news item/new program/etc.? Who are the audiences? What are the messages for each? What are the best tools (e.g., press release, webinar, profile, Q&A)? Best of luck!

    2. Put the Blame on Edamame*

      LinkedIn Learning is good for brushing up on the tech side, not that you need to code but it’s good to understand ths difference between HTML, CSS, and Javascript. Google’s free courses are actually decent – they have extensive introductions to analytics and mobile friendly tech which are aimed at beginners. Accessibility is also good to study for SEO, look at the W3C guides.

      In terms of next steps, maybe digital PR?

    3. Garlic Microwaver*

      Take your role out of the equation and focus on an industry. I’m a content strategist for a pediatric healthcare system, but before that, was not always in healthcare. Use your skill to fall into what you are truly interested in. Ghost writing for executives, for example, lends itself well to an eventual leadership role in internal communications, which is often part of a marketing team, especially in healthcare. Blogs, there is so much you can do. As far as courses go, check out Digital Marketing Institute. I recently completed their intensive content course and they touch upon SEO as well as “general marketing education.” Check out Moz as a tool. And try not to worry about robots taking over our jobs at this point. Remember, ATMs never took the job of tellers.

    4. LunaLena*

      Is communications in general something that would interest you? I work at in higher ed, and we have a small comms team that does everything from social media to putting out a weekly newsletter and writing speeches for the university president. They also maintain various blogs and work with a variety of departments (such as alumni relations and donor relations), helping them with written pieces and communications.

      A lot of non-academic departments (like the arts center and sustainability department) also always need help with applying for grants and community outreach, and I’ve known a few people who were freelance writers for things.

      1. LunaLena*

        Forgot to mention, as far as I know our comms team favors AP-style writing, so someone with a journalism background would fit right in.

    5. Another IVF mom*

      Hi, Eliza! A natural progression for a content writer could be harder/more challenging/more technical copy writing (if you’re interested in that); especially progressing into getting some experience with speechwriting, op-eds, external media content like press releases, whitepapers, etc, and writing website copy; content strategy (because if you’re just getting assigned projects, it’s fun to research and suggest topics and help make the content calendar); content delivery/tracking (which is where the SEO piece comes into play) or other roles in communications. I’ve been in communications for 15+ years and let me tell you, content is EXTREMELY VALUABLE and can be very lucrative!

      1. Eliza*

        This was super helpful, and feels very resonant to the path I’m currently on. Thank you so much!

    6. yarnowl*

      I love the HubSpot Academy training courses. Some of them are very specific to the product, but many are product-agnostic and great courses for learning important concepts. SEO research is a great skill for writers to have! HubSpot has some great courses on it.

      Up until last year, I was also a content writer. At my current job in B2B, I’ve taken on content strategy and planning responsibilities (so, deciding what topics we’re going to write about, doing keyword research, researching and developing outlines, etc.). I also project manage a group of writers who work on my company’s content. I don’t actually manage them, but I do the topic/planning, work with them to get all the materials they need together, provide reviews and feedback, etc.

      I think strong content writers are also great fits for a lot of different marketing roles, and if you’re at the right company, you could try your hand and see what interests you. For example, I’ve taken on email marketing (everything from planning campaigns to testing emails and presenting findings to my colleagues), building landing pages, I’m learning Google Ads right now, etc. I feel like as content writers, we’re good at finding the interesting nuggets and framing them in a way that’s interesting to the right audience; that’s a skill that a lot of B2B marketing requires.

  5. Enescudoh*

    I’m working at a major public institution on a high profile project. There are 4 or 5 of us who are on similar contracts for this project and my manager is convening us into a task force.

    She started off by calling the task force something… not appropriate (think military reference to a particularly ‘efficient’ war group that were very much the baddies). I don’t think she knew the full context of this. After she used this several times I asked if I could please, please rename us something that didn’t have those implications and she agreed (she takes the whole thing a bit more light-heartedly than I’d like, but that’s a topic for another day).

    Only now I am drawing a complete blank. AAM heroes, please can you help me find a fun (and ideally non military, but certainly non partisan) name for a campaign (ie press, marketing, partnerships, content etc) task force?

    1. Charlotte Lucas*

      Can you name it based on what the project focus is? Your description is too general for my Friday morning brain to come up with ideas.

    2. a tester, not a developer*

      My company usually goes with something like “Operation: Creampuff” or “Project Bluejay”. This year the theme seems to be types of stone so you get invites to “Operation: Feldspar Kickoff” or “Project Quartz Touchpoint”.

    3. Polar Vortex*

      Could you make a play on a Dungeons and Dragons thing? (Since it’s often called a campaign for a game?)

      Like: “Subways and Suburban Development: The Battle for Mass Transit”

      Else I’d try to find something in a Marvel or DC theme, generically nerdy and hopefully she wouldn’t name it after The Brotherhood of Mutants or Hydra.

    4. Hlao-roo*

      I like Charlotte Lucas’s idea to name it after the purpose of the group. “Teapot Task Force” or “Order Streamlining Task Force.”

      If you think your boss wants something more fun and less corporate, is there a popular major league or college sports team nearby you can name yourself after? For example, if you’re in/near Nashville TN, you could call yourselves the “Titan Task Force” after the Tennessee Titans. You could also name the task force after a local (or non-local) animal that’s not tied to a sports team.

      1. CTT*

        Thanks to that ad the Titans did about their schedule, my first thought was “or they could call themselves the Atlanta Florida Dolphins!”

    5. EMP*

      Apparently this also comes from the military but for some reason my current place calls teams like this “tiger teams”. It’s dumb but as far as I can tell, doesn’t have a lot of baggage associated with it.

      1. DataSci*

        Tiger team is pretty common. At my current job we now have a “dragon team” as well. Not sure what the difference is supposed to be.

    6. persimmon*

      Animal names? It would help to know more about task force’s focus/vibe but there are tons to choose from and tend to be non offensive. Just off the top of my head you could go something like Project Osprey, Project Ladybug, Project Jaguar, Project Killer Bee, Project Peacock, Project Mustang, etc

      1. MigraineMonth*

        While there was that viral video of a Javelina running really fast, one of my projects with an extremely short timeline adopted the Javelina as our group mascot.

    7. NaoNao*

      You could do animals–Wolf, Tiger, Shark, Leopard, Jaguar, Panther–something elegant and “apex-predator-y” maybe?

    8. Hiring Mgr*

      These are often also called “Tiger Teams” – you could always just go for something bland like that

    9. GreenShoes*

      My company either let’s the team decide (with a vote if needed) or someone just names it something odd. We used to have working titles of all of our projects named after beers. Had to stop doing that when they would get referenced as such to customers.

      I also think colors were used for a bit… but that got a little confusing, so I wouldn’t recommend that one.

    11. MigraineMonth*

      Ugh, I ran into a similar issue recently (though thankfully not at work).

      There’s a local volunteer group that organizes local get-out-the-vote efforts for Democratic candidates. They’ve decided to call themselves S.W.A.T., and I’ve decided to volunteer for a different group.

    12. OP Glowing Symphony*

      A task force is a group who works on a single defined task or activity. While originally introduced by the Navy, it’s not specifically used by the military, and it’s not only found there either. There is no ‘appropriateness’ indicated for its use unless you’re asking kindergarteners to TF Playground for a coup.

      Lighten up Francis.

      1. Echo*

        Reread the comment you’re replying to. They’re saying there was an inappropriate nickname given TO the task force, not that the phrase “task force” is inappropriate.

    13. House On The Rock*

      I like the idea of something lighthearted, maybe animal based…say an animal associated with what you want to evoke when you think of the project (Cheetah for speed, Elephant for consistency/staying power, Water Buffalo for strength).

      Along similar lines, long ago I worked for super corporate company that was run by people with very little knowledge of history, literature, art, etc. There was an initiative with various segments named after “things that soar”…so they had Eagle, Jet, Rocket, and…wait for it…Icarus. When this was rolled out I asked my boss if it was a jokeand he looked at me blankly…so I had to explain that generally when one references the myth of Icarus it’s as a caution against spectacular failure due to great hubris. He basically told me “don’t let anyone hear you talking like that, this has been decided already and we don’t need your hyped up book learning making waves”. In retrospect it ended up being pretty apt.

    14. Fidgeting giraffe*

      One possibility: There are random word generators online. Click through until you get a list of like five that sound vaguely interesting to you.

      Slightly more serious possibility: Take words from something nearby — are there any native animals/plants? (There’s a native bird that I frequently see when I go for walks near work, I would suggest that in a heartbeat if this were at my job.)

      Third suggestion: Heartbeat! (I just had that thought after typing it above.)

      Good luck!

      1. JR*

        ChatGPT is good at this, too. “Name a task force that is focused on…” It gave me really boring names until I asked for a fun name and then the suggestion was actually really good!

    15. The Shenanigans*

      If this is an internal name, why not just pick a piece of media or character that most people like? Or some kind of pun? Or both? I can’t think of a specific name unless I have more specifics, but totally get why you want to leave this general!

  6. Jess R.*

    What job (that you don’t currently have) do you think you’d excel at?

    It doesn’t have to be a job that currently exists under capitalism. It doesn’t have to be something you think you’d actually be hired for if you applied today. You don’t even have to have any “evidence” you’d perform well besides your gut/vibes.

    I asked my best friend this yesterday about me (because I’m doing some soul searching re: career), and she said: “Mediator on the gay commune. Event organizer at a summer camp for 30-somethings. Theater stage hand.” Which was *fascinating* and gave me a lot to think about.

    I have an unshakeable conviction I would be a great matchmaker or estate sale organizer, for some reason. What about y’all?

    1. Minimal Pear*

      Minor noblewoman running my medieval household largely on my own because my (relatively enlightened, understanding) husband is usually away.
      I also think I would be a great doctor, I’m just too disabled to survive med school.

      1. WorkNowPaintLater*

        Does your medieval household need a gardener? That would probably be my ideal…

        I think I would like being in theater again on the management side as well.

      2. Lana Kane*

        Holy crap, let’s be best friends lol I have thought about that very scenario!

        1. Minimal Pear*

          Seriously! I’m good at a lot of domestic things–cooking, baking, sewing, weaving, etc. and I’m also good at dealing with logistical stuff, keeping track of what I have in my fridge, etc. Plus I like being In Charge Of Stuff.

    2. ENFP in Texas*

      Dog adoption counselor. I have a lot of knowledge about dogs and their behaviors, as well maintenance and training needs, and I think I would be good at matching up families with the right dog/dog breed for their situation. It’s not as simple as “Oh, that one is cute! Let’s get him!”

      2. debbietrash*

        Where I am, this exists, but it’s largely a volunteer role with local shelters (I’m based in Canada where we get a lot of rescue dogs from the states). This is how my partner and I got our current dog, whom we adore. We essentially had a caseworker who interviewed us, and based on our lifestyle and wants, we got placed with our dog.

        1. ENFP in Texas*

          What sort of questions did they ask, and what. things did they take into account when matching you with a dog? I am ecstatic to hear this sort of thing actually exists, maybe I need to see if there is potential down here by me!

          1. Dog and cat fosterer*

            Ask at local foster-based rescues. Your local shelter might have something like this too, but ours pays the adoptions staff and they are expected to work full days. Of all my local rescues I think only a couple offer this service because it takes more work, yet it can be really useful for all involved when done right.

            They ask the usual things… activity level, experience with other pets, desire to do training, age of any kids, detached home vs apartment (dogs that bark do not do well in apartments), and that type of thing.

            I have fostered litters of pups and those with distinct personalities often get assigned to different adopters. I had one family who were first-time adopters and they were very disappointed that they didn’t get a choice. I then happily offered to bring out the others, and within seconds their eyes got wide and they understood that I’d made a good match. The family had young kids and the other pups were high energy whereas the pup I’d matched them with was calmer and less likely to play bite.

          2. First pet researcher*

            today I was googling, trying to find out what dog would suit our household. I’d say that an enterprising blogger could create a little income stream from a blog where you share your knowledge and tips for all the questions that dog-buyers or pet-buyers have. Today I was searching to find out how different breeds might suit us, and still got so much research to do! Also searching for how to choose a breeder, breeders in our area, reviews for breeders, costs of buying puppies of different breeds, and costs of having a dog (per year).

            1. First pet researcher*

              ps. if you have a recommendation for a trainable, sociable, not too shed-y small or medium sized dog who is likely not to bark a lot, needing max. an hour’s walk a day, for a household with no kids and no other pets, I am all ears :)

                2. Dog and cat fosterer*

                  @Dogtor – agreed so much. I wish that all smush-faced pets would suddenly find themselves unable to have puppies or kittens. Humans have really messed up their ability to breathe and it’s so sad. If I can hear a dog struggling to breathe before I see it then I feel so awful for them.

              2. Dog and cat fosterer*

                A lot of a dog’s personality is about how they are raised as a puppy. All dogs are trainable (some take longer but a good breeder will teach the Action -> Reward connection from a very young age), sociable varies within a litter as much as it does between breeds, and most dogs do well with a combination of physical exercise and training.

                We get a lot of potcakes at local rescues who can be really lovely. They are medium, don’t often bark, short fur and shed little, social and smart. The available breeds with breeders and rescue really depends on your area. I’d suggest focusing on good breeders more than specific breeds.

                1. ShinyPenny (the other one)*

                  Please please could you clarify what you meant by “potcakes” in your comment?! I am assuming that was a autocorrect gremlin, but I can’t figure out how to reverse engineer that and I am so curious!

                3. Dog and cat fosterer*

                  @ShinyPenny : Sorry, a late update. Potcakes are dogs from the caribbean, and while there is some variety in color and size the ones that I’ve met tend to be medium and brown.

                  Some need more training if they weren’t well socialized as pup, so I would strongly recommend checking out foster-based rescues in your area and not adopting directly from a Caribbean rescue. I knew someone who did that and she had a lot of problems and eventually needed to rehome the dog. It was an older dog that had separation anxiety but this wasn’t known down south because it was in a home where someone was home constantly with a pile of other dogs. So find out if local rescues have any potcakes, and don’t worry about it if you don’t! A lot of breeds vary by area. My neighbor has a medium dog that looks like a black mouth cur and she is the best dog ever but that breed is rare around here.

        2. Cyndi*

          The rescue where I volunteer has these as well! Plus the first step of our process is that you take a short lifestyle quiz online (children, other pets, activity level) and all our dogs are rated on those criteria too, so you already have some information about which dogs would fit your lifestyle. For us an adoption counselor is the last step of the process, after that quiz and meeting the dogs in person, and the final decision-maker on your application. (Since I’m the volunteer doing introductions in the middle, they’re also the person I can pull aside real quick and say “hey these people really want this dog, but I have concerns for X and Y reasons” and god I appreciate having someone in that role SO MUCH.)

      3. Jaunty Banana Hat I*

        I could totally do this for cats. I do volunteer at an animal shelter, so I get to do some of it!

      4. Heather*

        A book called, “Elsewhere” by Gabrielle Zezin has this exact avocation as part of the plot.

    3. CindyLouWho*

      Scrum master for my very large, professional-society project.

      Hopefully I can make it happen soon, though!

    4. ThatGirl*

      I think I’d be good at mediating dumb arguments. Not things that need full-blown counseling, but petty things where people are misunderstanding or talking past each other.

    5. Charlotte Lucas*

      In grade school, I read an article about angora rabbits. The way you get their fiber is by holding them on your lap & brushing them. I think I would really excel at that.

    6. galaxyrow*

      Kind of lame but…I would make a great office manager/general office support. I’m incredibly organized, have a great sense of timing, have some experience with event planning, and am a hobbyist graphic designer (I’ve had some paying clients!)

      It’s what I want to do when I no longer live in a HCOL city.

    7. ThursdaysGeek*

      Professional Listener. I’ll provide the tea and will listen to you talk about whatever you want. Hourly rates apply.

      1. Stunt Apple Breeder*

        Can I be your business partner? I also like to bake–the session schedule could have tiers along the lines of “brief chat,” “catch up over tea/coffee,” and “this calls for pie.”

        1. Hermione Danger*

          I would like to be placed on your waitlist so I’m near the top when you open. I have a Very Large Basket of “This calls for pie” topics.

      2. MigraineMonth*

        Ooh, have you read A Psalm for the Wild-Built? The main character is a nonbinary traveling Tea Monk who offers tea and respite to those who need it.

    8. Polar Vortex*

      Head of an exploratory group into deep space. I’m good at mediating between groups and also just making the final decision and swinging people’s minds over to my side. I’m great in a crisis situation. I in no way think humans are superior so I’m not out to conquer new planets, and I have a healthy love of new cultures and places.

      Else: Spin Doctor. I’m great at taking things and spinning it to tell the story I want. I just know it’s too easy to use my powers for evil so I tend to avoid it.

    9. Hlao-roo*

      Just dropping by to say I think there’s a lot of overlap between “mediator on the gay commune” and “matchmaker” as well as between “theater stage hand” and “estate sale organizer” so I think you and your friend are on the same page about your strengths! Those all sound like great careers, btw.

    10. Cyndi*

      I used to be a non-skating official for roller derby and I LOVED it but it was a volunteer role with a lot of unpaid travel and past a certain point I just couldn’t afford to keep doing it. If I could do that as a full-time paying job I would in a heartbeat.

      1. Diatryma*

        Oh hi! I also NSOd for a bit, though not a ton– the social aspect was a bit weird and I never had the kind of leadership/structure I wanted. But I did get a derby name, albeit not on anything, and I can say that I injured my knee at roller derby because I stood up from the scoring table funny.

        I’m Terror Bird. You?

      3. Tiny clay insects*

        Oh yay derby! I play, and my husband is a skating official. I wish we got paid! My nephew recently said he wanted a job like his uncle when he was older–a roller derby ref! I love that he thought it was his actual job.

    11. Serenity*

      Professional blurb-length book reviewer for book store shelves.

      You know how a good indie book store will have little cards saying how staff liked a particular book for one reason or another, to try to get you to buy it? I would be great at reading all the books and writing those.

    12. Atlantic Toast Conference*

      I think I’d be a pretty good at undercover intel operations/cultivating human sources of intelligence. Not like Mission Impossible dangerous heist type stuff, but like chumming up to a foreign attache and worming my way into their confidence and ultimately cultivating them as an asset.

    13. Whomst*

      I’m just a big pile of contradictions, so I don’t think I could pick one thing to do for more than a year or two straight – it would play to some strengths while other parts of me withered and died. So I think seasonal work would be fantastic. Do some field work or recreation guiding work outdoors during the nice part of the year, do some homier things in the winter like being a nanny or personal chef. I’ve actually considered shifting to teaching so I could have a different job during the summer, but the low pay/disrespect for the profession keeps me hesitant.

      1. DEJ*

        Private investigator is something I was toying with at one point partially because of this.

      2. Weaponized Pumpkin*

        I love to find info. I could just look up factoids and research little things all day. Not like big thesis type research (I already do some of that) but what else has this actor been in, how on earth President John Tyler still has a living grandson, what do you call a group of penguins, stuff like that.

    15. HCTZ*

      I would’ve made a GREAT travel agent, back when that was a thing. It combines several loves of mine – seeing the world, organizing trips, etc. I’d love to help introduce people to experiencesand help people make (hopefully good) memories!

      3. allathian*

        Being a member of the landed gentry means you have to work pretty hard if you want to maintain that lifestyle. Sure, some privileges remain, but they’re much less extensive than they used to be and there are other ways to gain at least some of those privileges apart from birth, given our celebrity-obsessed culture.

        I watched the miniseries about Highclere, the estate where Downton Abbey was filmed, and the current Earl of Carnarvon, George Herbert, and the rest of his family work very hard to maintain it. Running the estate costs about £10,000 per *day* so it’s no sinecure, especially not with only a handful of staff to help them run it.

        I just wonder what their ancestors a few generations back would think of it, given the contempt the leisured class had for anyone who had to actually work for a living or became rich through their own hard work.

    17. Jezebella*

      I’d be a great “No is a complete sentence” coach. Boss demanding unpaid overtime? No. Boyfriend wants you to walk a mile in summer heat because he’s too cheap to pay for a cab? Hell no. Mom tells you, a whole-ass adult, that you’re not allowed to drive after dark? Uh, NOPER. And no need to explain.

      And so forth.

    18. NaoNao*

      Budget decorator: When you want a makeover but have very few $, I will source items, rearrange and declutter, and give you that much needed fresh look. I will be firm but caring about your stuff you don’t need anymore :)

      Tough-love personal stylist. I will help you get rid of the 400 band tees that don’t fit anymore, but I’ll have you laughing while we go through your closet. Also on a budget, I’m Koupon Kween.

      Cataloger. Do you need a way to organize and manage all your stuff? I will find it! And I will conquer with you! I love cataloging (digital and analog) and I love collections so let’s goooo.

      3. I remain. . . Anatole*

        Pleeeeeeeease help me. My home always, always looks like Early Grad Student.

      4. Brrr*

        I would hire a budget decorator too! And if your cataloger services would include files: sorting, purging, organizing and setting up a workable paper filing system for us, I’d hire you to do that and then pay you to do a check in every couple of weeks to make sure we’re keeping up with the mail sorting and filing system.

    19. Warrior Princess Xena*

      Excel teacher. Spreadsheet debugger. A professional ‘let’s keep this meeting on topic’ person, wrangling groups so that they keep the main thing the main thing.

    20. Sharon*

      I think I’d be a great inn-sitter (person who looks after a B&B when the owner is away) and will probably look into that when I retire!

    21. Double A*

      You know how in The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy the actual president of the Galaxy lives on a planet by himself and people just show up periodically and ask him stuff and he tells them and then they leave? I think I should be that guy. In charge of all the ideas, not responsible for implementing them.

    22. Cookies For Breakfast*

      I think I’d make a good literary translator, and wish I’d pursued formal training to make it my career when I was younger. Lots of reasons why it didn’t happen, and some of them sound painfully like excuses all these years later.

      I also have lots of thoughts about food writing, most too long for the space of a comment. In short, I’d love it if there was a niche for people who want to write about the simple food they eat at home, how it makes them feel, and the role home cooking has in discovering new flavours. That’s a subject I’d love to share lots about (I’m not a chef, restaurant reviewer, food science / sociology person or professional photographer, and most of the people I enjoy reading stuff from are at least one of those).

    24. Tricia*

      ChoiceMaker.
      When people have a decision with 2 choices to make, I would help them look critically at both choices, work threw their concerns and help them make the choice. And if they couldn’t or wouldn’t, I’d make the choice for them.

      2. Hlao-roo*

        Have you seen the Ask a Manager “interview with a decision coach” from October 3, 2022? Will link in a follow-up comment; it was an interesting read.

      3. Sloanicota*

        this would make an interesting format for a sister blog to AAM! Most advice givers are somewhat wary of choosing “for” people (understandably) but sometimes I do want someone to just pick one of the options and let’s go with that.

    25. Stuckinacrazyjob*

      I would give teens therapy but somehow magically not have to do any casework

    26. jast*

      Professional gofer/fetch-and-carry guy on a college campus. I’ve got good running/walking endurance, a high carrying capacity, a high heat tolerance (for the summers) and have a hard time getting lost. Plus, the autism would actually be useful here because I wouldn’t get bored :D

      1. Higher Ed Cube Farmer*

        I did that for several years as a student, and it was satisfying just as you imagine. If I could have supported myself on it, it would have been an almost perfect job.

    27. Jaunty Banana Hat I*

      I am a good friend matchmaker: I’ve had several situations where I introduced friends I had from separate areas of my life to each other and they became actual BFFs (like in each other’s weddings, etc.). Not sure how to make an actual job out of it, but if I could, I think I’d be good.

      Cat cafe owner/employee. Travel guide writer. Namer of things–I would be SO good at coming up with great names for nail polish/paint/etc. colors and other things like that, and I find that kind of thing inordinately fun to do.

      Ancient Aliens/History channel “mystery things” comedic commentarian, a la MST3K. I’ve thought about doing an actual podcast or something along these lines for fun, I just don’t have the free time at the moment.

    28. Miss Cranky Pants*

      I kinda do this now, but I’d do more plant sitting. You know, caring for houseplants and an outdoor garden/curated space of no more than 12X12 feet. I’d coo to them, prune as needed, give correct watering amounts, etc. I like have small green friends who sigh in the breeze and unfurl fresh new leaves when they’re happy. Makes me happy too.

      I also second cat adoption counselor. Personalities, lifestyles, people and types of in said household all matter to a shelter cat needing a furever home. I’d be great at that.

    29. DoodleBug*

      General interpreter. Not the kind from one language to another, but… I listen to the conversation you’re having with tech support where no one seems to understand each other, and I rephrase/summarize what one party is saying so that the other party understands the issue/the gist. But broader than just tech support.

      The number of times I’ve been in meetings (or just conversations) where I’ve chimed in, “It sounds like X is saying Y” and X has agreed with me and Y has suddenly understood what X was trying to communicate… I guess I’m good at “translating” between different groups.

      1. Chipmunk*

        Yessssssss. But I don’t have good luck getting people to agree even when I understand where the misunderstanding is happening.

        1. DoodleBug*

          Oh, I wouldn’t mediate or try to get parties to resolve conflicts – that is not me! I’d just be working on the misunderstandings. (In my comment above, the “agree” is just the original speaker agreeing that I’ve correctly summarized what they were trying to say.)

          1. Chipmunk*

            I think you’ve just solved my whole problem! They don’t have to reach an agreement…

    30. Chipmunk*

      Whatever job exists where you’ve got your nose in everyone’s business and then use your power for good to align resources, deadlines, projects, etc. to avoid duplication of efforts, projects that end up missing important information from other offices, inefficiencies, etc.

    31. Damn it, Hardison!*

      Professional decluttered and organizer. I am very good at organizing and not at all sentimental so I love getting rid of stuff. I have a label maker, and I’m not afraid to use it.

      1. The Prettiest Curse*

        I had to label so much stuff in my last job (grant-funded project, so nobody else was allowed to use our supplies) that I got a bit carried away whenever I had to break out the label maker. I don’t often have to label stuff in my current job, so I miss it!

      2. Head sheep counter*

        We could pair up. And frankly this sort of service is really needed… so perhaps its worth investigating further (yours that is…)

      3. Sloanicota*

        oh please come to my house. i don’t need labels but I do need someone to tell me it’s okay to get rid of a bunch of stuff I don’t want/need or to suggest which stuff it should be

    32. Stunt Apple Breeder*

      I would love to be a xenobotanist or -agronomist, studying and preserving culturally-important crops for cultures from other worlds.

    33. The Prettiest Curse*

      I would excel at coming up with names for bands. For at least 50% of the band names I come across, I think, “is that REALLY the best you could do?”

    34. BalanceofThemis*

      Wise hermit, preferably one that lives indoors, bit I could survive in a nice cave.

    35. Snoozing not schmoozing*

      Writer of letters of complaint. I have a bizarre ability to be scathingly, disdainfully, eloquent when I put fingers to keyboard to register grievances. I would call myself The Freelance Festivusian.

      2. Hiring Mgr*

        That’s a good one. My mother in law can take the mildest slight and turn it into a three day free all inclusive pass to disney world – there’s got to be a business there somewhere

      3. Damn it, Hardison!*

        My cat would like to hire you. She has many bones to pick with her servants.

    36. Chirpy*

      – Research/Reference librarian for a particular fandom
      – prop master/maker for said fandom (yes, it exists, but not where I want to live)
      – I think I’d be a good nature documentary director/ filmmaker, but I have no idea how one gets into that

    37. Rex Libris*

      Introvert socializer. For a modest fee, I’ll sit on the other side of the room while we both quietly read to ourselves.

    38. Silver Linings From Dreamland*

      In terms of jobs that don’t exist- making connections between phrases/song titles/expressions etc.

      The grammar police in me is tempted to say some kind of editor but preferred writing styles (everything from tone to grammar) are so subjective, I can’t think of a specific role I’d be particularly well suited for.

        1. Head sheep counter*

          There’s someone doing basically that in my neighborhood as an after school program.

    40. WorkNowPaintLater*

      After thinking more on it after replying earlier…Office Jack-of-All-Trades on a contract basis.

      Need computer assistance? Someone to clean out file cabinets/closets/that office in the back? How about getting all that paperwork shredded? Maybe a Notary? I’m sure there are companies that do this – but I’m thinking small scale for small businesses.

      1. Weaponized Pumpkin*

        When I was about 8 I picked out a color t0 paint my bedroom — I was enthralled by the paint color names and thought that sounded like a fantastic job. (And it really is a job!) Many years later, after art school and wordsmithing jobs I realize little me was already dialing into things I love.

    42. I edit everything*

      I saw an article somewhere about a person who helps people make decisions. I’d be great at that. I got tired of the “Oh, I don’t know. What do you want to do?” cycle in my family and just started making executive decisions for everyone. They seem grateful not to have to pick out the color of their new kitchen cabinets or where to eat dinner.

    43. Three Cats in a Trenchcoat*

      I like to picture myself as a local witch. People would come by for advice, potions, etc. It would be sort of expected that I would be a bit odd, have cats, and read a lot.

      tbh it probably isn’t THAT different from my day job, but just seems so much cozier and warmer.

      1. Sloanicota*

        I too would be good at inventing spells or rituals, as long as they don’t actually have to work, just provide some sort of closure. Like a magical therapist.

    44. Felicity Lemon*

      Researcher — and specifically historical researcher — for fiction authors. I’m not great at writing fiction, but I love hunting down information and I’m fascinated by historical stories & tidbits.

      1. Snoozing not schmoozing*

        That’s a real thing. I worked in the library of a history museum, and some of the researchers who came in worked for fiction authors. I’m also in a Facebook group for a specific historical period, and there are some historical fiction authors in it who both get and give information.

    45. MigraineMonth*

      I want to be an Incentives Alignment fixer. I would spend several months learning about an area with lots of perverse incentives (e.g. US healthcare, private prisons, civil forfeiture) and then publish a legally-binding opinion on how to fix it (e.g. universal Medicare, no for-profits involved in prisons, police departments keep none of the revenue from civil forfeiture/fines).

      Unfortunately, I would probably get assassinated within the first year.

    46. RLC*

      Vintage/antique/historic fine jewellery appraiser. I’ve always been fascinated by gemstones and cuts, and find it impossible to admire a piece without also trying to identify the cut of the stones, the hallmarks on the setting, and the style or historic period. I’ve definitely found some wonderful pieces for incredible prices over the years!

    47. JelloStapler*

      Lottery Winner. I wouldn’t tell anyone, I would use my time to volunteer and anonymously donate.

      Ice Cream Taste Tester.
      Dog Day Care. Unfortunately, it does not pay the bills.
      Children’s Book Illustrator.
      Vet Tech (if I could stand the blood, guts)
      Listener, without having to give advice or counsel.
      Recording Books or articles.
      Receptionist.

    48. Always Bring Pickles to a Potluck*

      I want to work for a baseball announcer/commentator and feed them random stats.

      Also, my plan for when I retire is to volunteer as a baby snuggler in the NICU.

    49. Head sheep counter*

      I used to feel really confident in my ability to help friends better utilize their spaces – think turning one doorway in a two doorways next to each other space into an entertainment system and on the reverse since it was the entry a coat rack. I also really wanted to help people do budget interior design – think recovering furniture and using what one has with special finds from all over… but I’ve lost that confidence and so… I’d love to regain it. And lets be honest… I need to deploy it on the nesting that the last several years brought to my house (so much stuff).

    50. Gondorff*

      Alphabetizer. For a modest fee I will come to your home/office and organize your books/DVDs/CDs/files/etc. in alphabetical (or numerical, via Dewey Decimal, Library of Congress, or other system of your choosing) order. Talking to me during this process is not remotely a requirement.

      (I used to work in a library and the best part of my day was organizing the books before re-shelving them. There was nothing more soothing than just…putting things in order.)

    51. Faintofheartt*

      Celebrity or high-profile executive personal assistant. I have this unnatural ability to predict what someone needs/wants before they ask for it (which has been super helpful in my paralegal career, but I just know I’d be a phenomenal assistant to a celebrity or executive).

    52. Anonanon doo doo doo doo doo*

      I would be a professional de-tangler. Give me your lumps of jewelry, extension cords, etc, and I would have everything separated and sorted.

      1. Hotdog not dog*

        I would love to become a professional fiber artist, and would hire a yarn detangler in a heartbeat!

    53. alex (they/them)*

      I did science education outreach as a volunteer college student, and briefly as a (under)paid employee. It was incredibly rewarding, but the paid was way too low for me to pursue as a career :(

      1. Domanda*

        As someone who has done science education for the better part of 2 decades I can agree that it is very rewarding and vastly underpaid.

    54. KatCardigans*

      When I was a teenager I went through a period of thinking I would be fantastic as one of the people who sets up dolls and toys for product photoshoots. While I have less faith in my photography prowess now, I still think I’d be fabulous at the set-up part.

    55. Too Many Tabs Open*

      DNA match wrangler. You need someone to sit down and sort all your Ancestry DNA matches into groups and figure out possible common ancestors? Let me at it. (Results not guaranteed if you descend from a highly endogamous population.)

    56. Domanda*

      I have a BA in Art History and a Master’s in Science Education and I also teach construction skills so I’m good with my hands (I’ve had a varied career).

      The job of my dreams is art restoration. Using science to clean and repair works of art? Yes please!

    57. C*

      My dream job is to be a full time Christmas tree decorator. I really feel like I could coordinate a team to decorate a several-stories-tall Christmas tree, plus I think I’ve always had a knack for it.

    58. what the nope*

      Rewilding engineer. Wiping out pavement and lawns, replacing them with appropriate native habitat. Everywhere.

      2. Once too Often*

        Oh, that sounds great! And much better than my initial misreading of “bewildering” engineer – a puzzling title.

    59. SansaStark*

      Professional Personal Cheerleader. Do you need someone who’s going to pump you up before the big interview or that third date with a great person? That’s me. Had a terrible day and just got fired? Sit over here next to me so we can cry and then find you an even better job bc you’re amazing! Just want to sit in companionable silence after you had a big talk with your mom about her trampling your boundaries? I got you and you will feel (but not hear!) my silent pride in how you handled that tough situation!

    60. yarnowl*

      When Alison interviewed the professional decision-maker, I was like, that is an amazing job and I would love to have that. I feel like I’d be pretty good at it too! People do tend to come to me for advice and I like giving it.

    61. Chirpy*

      On the original show, MacGyver worked for a vaguely defined organization called the Phoenix Foundation that did everything from conservation to humanitarian causes to hostage rescue to taking dumb executives on wilderness retreats. I would really like that job (minus the stuff where people ended up shooting at MacGyver.)

    62. My Brain is Exploding*

      Philanthropist, dog cuddler, household organizer, setting up people’s kitchens when they move, clean-out/declutterer of houses and closets, telling people what they should do, book reader, genetic detective…and that’s just off the top of my head.

    63. Cedrus Libani*

      When I was an underemployed, mid-20s STEM nerd, I gave serious thought to becoming a “professional” science crank. I would spend my days reading the scientific literature, filling my brain with a broad assortment of intriguing proto-facts that people were trying to make sense of. I’m really, really good at connecting these sorts of pieces together.

      I’d have a blog or something. Wouldn’t actually get paid, I’d just be doing it for bragging rights. I’d support myself as a part-time SAT/MCAT tutor.

      I didn’t do it. For one thing, I didn’t trust myself to stay on the useful side of the line; it’s just too easy to wander into the realm of science fan-fiction, and I’d have nobody to drag me back. For another thing, I managed to get a legit STEM job, now career, that uses these skills and is willing to pay for them, such that I’m no longer climbing the walls of my life with boredom and frustration.

    65. Zephy*

      I feel like the “summer camp for 30-somethings” IS the gay commune, or is like, the primary source of income for said gay commune. So, you could do all three of those jobs in the same place, probably.

      I’ve thought idly about some kind of freelance “unf*** your filing system” scheme. You got a back room stacked to the heavens with unfiled papers? You got a database filled with junk? Hire me, I’ll come in and fix it.

    66. Higher Ed Cube Farmer*

      Historical re-enactor/living history interpreter. Did it for a while, it was good, but the wages/working conditions were not sustainable.
      House spouse for my own family or housekeeper for someone else’s. Did it for a while and was good at ti but the wages/working conditions were not sustainable.
      Not a tailor, but a person who “takes in mending” like used to be A Thing in the 18- and early-mid 1900s. Another job that doesn’t currently pay due to the economy of mass production.
      Animal rescue and rehabber. Takes more time and money than I have at the same time, but if I won the lottery or an inheritance…

    68. Sherm*

      Puzzle Consultant. For video games that are more on the puzzle-y side (as opposed to ones that are predominantly about hand-eye coordination), I would patiently sit by you and help solve the puzzle. If you just want subtle hints to nudge you forward, I could do that. I’d also help with “Hunt a Killer” style mystery/puzzle games.

    69. Hermione Danger*

      Creator of Enchanting Experiences.
      Want to go on a magical vacation? I would find the most delightful/intriguing hotels, the best teashops/cafes/restaurants, the most unusual but fascinating tours, all selected based on your personality and preferences.
      Need an unforgettable setting for your wedding proposal / first date / 50th birthday party? We’d have a conversation and I’d find the space, the decorations, the music, the clothes, the lights, the food…
      All of my experiences would be crafted to take your breath away and bring joy, with unexpected wonderful details included.

    70. I have RBF*

      I have always thought that I would be a great Business Weakness Analyst – one of those people who comes in, works as a temp in various areas of a company for three to six months, then writes a report on all of the dysfunctions and broken processes identified. It takes me three to six months working as an IC in a company to identify their “Achilles’ heel(s)”, but then I have no power or standing to get people to act on the data. But I don’t have a fancy MBA to make companies willing to pay for my evaluation, unfortunately.

    71. Fish*

      Interview people about what they do and don’t like doing in a job, so I could help them find the right match. For instance, not putting a planner with a procrastinating boss.

      Systems analyst. My first career was in IT, but I ended up exiting very early for reasons too long to go into. Decades later I understand systems design better now, than I did when it was my job. Especially learning the client’s business well enough to make the system fit their needs, not to make them serve the computer.

      I can’t believe how many IT implementation disasters still happen today. Technology has vastly improved since my day in the field, but human stupidity has stayed pretty much the same! :-)

    72. WantonSeedStitch*

      Part of me fantasizes about being an archaeologist or historian who focuses on food and cooking, and then blogging about my attempts to re-create ancient or historical foods! “I made a Sumerian clay oven! Now I’m going to bake Sumerian bread!” (*I have no idea if Sumerians used clay ovens, but it seems reasonable.)

    73. Squeakrad*

      I just read a New Yorker article about a woman who is a professional disaster, preparedness specialist. I think I would excel at that. She investigates current disasters to make recommendations on what to do for the future. She also works on creating scenarios for likely disasters that happened yet happened but could and makes recommendations for that. That’s the part where I would especially excel.

    75. Not A Raccoon Keeper*

      My friend runs a summer camp for 30somethings, if you want to get involved!!

    76. Union*

      Person who goes from town to town fixing their zoning codes. [If you have a population of 650 people, your zoning code should not be 350 pages long.]

      Reviewer who looks at architects’ plans and points out all the ways people will ruin your “perfectly planned” building. [I already do this, but no one ever listens to me.]

      Book mover. I will pack all of your books or other regularly-shaped media, like CDs or records. I will also take anything you aren’t keeping and distribute it to used bookstores and donation centers which, if you’ve ever tried to get rid of a bunch of books, you know is a sorely needed service.

      Recapping for local government meetings, big and small. The drama! The pathos! The secret relationships that impact every citizen-sponsored text amendment!

      Person who follows reality TV show hosts around and flags inaccurate numbers. [Completely renovating this flood-damaged building and installing a state-of-the-art ice cream factory will take much, much, MUCH more than $300,000, Marcus Lemonis.]

      Politician who takes the fall for unpopular but necessary decisions.

      Designer of mass transit systems that completely replace private vehicle access in national parks.

      Owner and operator of a very late night bookstore. [Located directly in the nightlife district so if you’re done for the night and want to sober up in a calm environment you can come get a coffee and flip through a book.]

      1. Union*

        Organizer of lavish balls for adults held at science and children’s museums where unaccompanied adults are typically frowned upon. Also you get to wear something you’ve been wanting to wear forever.

        Also my late night bookstore would be called A Midnight Dreary and there would be big comfy couches and if you bring me the syllabi for your classes at the beginning of the year I’ll stock all your required reading so when you or your students inevitably forget to grab a copy I’ll be here waiting for you.

        1. Union*

          Production Assistant to Nathan Fielder on The Rehearsal who just follows him around in an identical laptop harness taking frantic notes.

      2. Firefighter (Metaphorical)*

        I want the job of the person who hires for all these jobs so you can do them all! Especially the local government meeting recaps, I am envisaging a podcast which I would listen the hell out of. (Also if you or a colleague in the recapped industry could do it for academic department meetings, that would be my perfect show).

    77. Mimmy*

      I think I’d be a good accessibility auditor. I often notice when a physical or digital site isn’t accessible to people with various disabilities, such as if the aisles are too narrow at a store or if a website probably wouldn’t be easy to navigate if you use a screen reader. I have a lot of knowledge about disabilities and a general knowledge of the ADA and various accessibility and Universal Design guidelines. I’m just not sure I’m up for the level of technical training it’d probably require.

    78. Chaordic One*

      I think I’d be a very good technical writer. I’m usually very good at writing down step-by-step instructions about how to do all sorts of things. Even though I was fired from a previous job at Dysfunctional Teapots, Ltd. I was told that they used my instructions for years after I left. Things like the instructions on how to use the copiers or how to access the client information in the specialized database.

      Senior Executive Philosopher sounds good, too.

    79. Chilly delta blues*

      Subject enthusiast. I love research a new topic, learning all the super cool things about it, and then getting everyone around me hyped up too. My current fascination is Space Weather and I think I’m good at explaining things in a way that makes topics feel accessible to everyone. I’ve watched a lot of Bill Nye the science guy though.

  7. Sarah, Plain and Tall*

    If you’re interviewing at multiple places but a bit further along with one that’s not your top choice, how do you communicate or try to move the interviews of your top choice(s) faster? Should you even bring this up to your top choices?

    For context, I’m laid off. There are 2 places I’m interviewing at that are my top choices and 1 that I honestly don’t want. However, if I didn’t get the top 2, I would take the 1 I don’t really like, because I need a job. I don’t want to seem pushy with my top choices. During my phone screenings, the recruiter has been like, “where are you in your search, let us know if anything changes”, but how do you balance communicating that you want to schedule the interviews quickly without being pushy?

    1. galaxyrow*

      Yes, bring it up! It’s completely normal. You’re viewing it as pushy but really its an example of being a good communicator.

        1. The Cosmic Avenger*

          Maybe something like “I hope this is OK, but I actually have a couple/few other interviews this week, but if I got equal offers from all at once, [Company] would definitely be my first choice, so would I be bothering you if I keep in touch about my application status?”

        2. MigraineMonth*

          I wouldn’t be particularly deferential; you’re giving them important information that they want and have asked for.

          “I wanted to let you know that I’m further along interviewing with another company / I’m expecting an offer in [X] weeks from another company. If you decide to interview me, would it be possible to schedule that soon?”

        3. Nesprin*

          I really enjoyed discussing the position with you at our phone screen, and it sounds like a great opportunity. I wanted to let you know I’m interviewing with other companies shortly. I’m really excited about this opportunity, so I wanted to ask if there any way to move our interview up?

        4. House On The Rock*

          It’s fine to say something along the lines of “I am actively interviewing for several positions but am very excited about this one and am eager to move ahead in the process with your organization”.

          When I interview candidates I always ask them to tell me if there are outside considerations that may necessitate accelerating the schedule or giving them a decision more quickly (I can’t always do this because my organization takes forever to hire, but I try). I am appreciative when candidates take me up on this!

    2. T. Wanderer*

      If they’re asking, they want to know! I don’t see a problem with saying “You’ve asked about where I am in my job search — you should know that I’m [a bit further on/in later stages] interviewing with another company, although they wouldn’t necessarily be my first choice.”

    3. Keeley Jones, The Independent Woman*

      When I was looking last year I had this situation. I just told my contact I was in the final round with company A, but their company seemed more in line with my goals. It did help get interviews scheduled a bit faster.

      And also, it’s ok to accept Job 1 and see how your top choices pan out and back out if needed. It’s not ideal but it happens all the time.

    4. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      This is totally normal and ok (so make sure you approach it from a place of knowing it’s OK, not being overly deferential about it).

      I did it when I was interviewing with three positions last summer. At the initial stages of the interviews I was candid that “I want to be open that I am farther along in the interview process with another organization but I am very interested in this role and look forward to meeting more of the team.” Then when I had two final interviews on the same day I told my 1st choice “I’m very interested in this role but I want to be candid that I’m expecting an offer from another organization. This would be my first choice so if the timing is able to work out I’d be glad to consider any offer [org] is able to make.” I was able to get a verbal offer within 3 hours of the interview and a written offer by EOD, at a huge org that usually takes forever to make decisions!

      Good luck!

    5. Ranon*

      You say “look, you’re my first choice, but I’m at the later interview/ offer/ whatever stage with another company- what is your expected timeline and is there anything you can do to help” and then if they’re excited about you they hurt up pdq because they don’t want to lose you.

      I don’t know what your job market is like, my company is seeing folks get hired out from under us if we don’t move fast so we really want to know!

  8. Box of Kittens*

    Is it common for proposal writers/proposal managers to earn commission? I have tried googling this, but most of what comes up is about grant writing for nonprofits, not proposal writing for a for-profit company. Any insight or industry norms would be helpful!

    1. Actuarial Octagon*

      In my field, consulting, no. The person who brings in the request for proposal gets a commission but not the individual who writes the response. They may get a bonus tied to the overall performance of the sales team for the year.

      1. Felicity Lemon*

        Same here (US professional services firm, for-profit): the proposal response team does not get paid on commission – they are regular salaried workers.

    2. Ata*

      Even though I’ve been in academia and know what proposals are, when I read the first few words of this I started trying to figure out how marriage proposals had developed to the point of having writers and managers. *face palm*

    3. gsa*

      I don’t know that it’s common, but I do know the nonprofit where my father-in-law sits on the board pays their grant writers 10% if they win the grant.

      This was discussed previously, and some people did not think it was common, and at least one person thought it might be illegal.

      If I can find his organization’s website, I will post a link separately.

        1. Peachtree*

          Hey, I don’t mean to be rude, but your father in law must be one of about 5-8 men on that webpage. I don’t know if self doxxing is a good idea?

          1. gsa*

            Not rude, just incorrect.

            My father-in-law’s picture is not on that website, I looked 1st before I posted the list.

            And if his picture was, who would know who which picture was of him.

      2. abcde*

        It is not common in nonprofits, and is highly unethical according to AFP (Association of Fundraising Professionals) Code of Ethics.

    4. Laika*

      Western Canada, proposal writer/coordinator in construction here, no commissions for me :)

    5. Generic Name*

      I’m a consultant, and (for better or worse) I am not measured by how many proposals I personally write win. I certainly don’t get a commission based on which projects we get.

    6. Mockingjay*

      I’ve gotten quarterly awards and bonuses for writing proposals (for-profit company). The awards were small “thank you for writing this after hours” (I got paid straight OT); the yearly bonuses were large “we won; here’s the ‘real’ award; thanks again!”

  9. Cyndi*

    Great news! I’ve been talking for months about my job hunt due to an impending office move, and I finally got a job JUST under the wire—the offer literally came at EOD the night before moving day. So for now I’m stuck in a really miserable notice period where my commute is almost two hours each way, but freedom is in sight. And meanwhile my boss and coworkers are being very understanding about how fried I am. (WHY is sitting on a train for 3.5 hours a day, not even doing anything, so exhausting?)

    I can even credit AAM advice for this! There was a general discussion about applying for stretch jobs a few weeks ago, and at that point I was really struggling because I could barely even find openings comparable to my current job that paid as well, and hadn’t heard back from a single one of those. So I said what the heck, this can’t go worse so what do I have to lose, and started applying for stretch jobs. For the first couple weeks I still got nothing and thought you all had led me astray, but then I got two interviews—on the same morning even—and was offered one of those jobs this week! It pays a bit better, the commute is MUCH better, and if all goes well I have it in writing that I can go hybrid after six months. You all did NOT lead me astray and I’m sorry for doubting you.

    I do still need advice though. My new workplace is too small for group health coverage, so instead I’m eligible for reimbursement if I get my own. This is an idea I’m familiar with in theory for very small businesses, but haven’t dealt with in practice before. In fact my only experience of shopping for my own insurance is checking my state marketplace exactly once per period of under/unemployment, going “Yep, just as I expected, can’t afford that!” and going uninsured until the next job. Does anyone have any tips for insurance shopping?

    1. VA Professor*

      On the insurance question, my town has a marketplace company that is affiliated with several insurance companies. They ask questions about your health and finances and recommend one for you. They get paid by the insurance company. For me at least, they recommended I stick with my old workplace’s continuing insurance for a couple of years and they don’t get paid for that recommendation so I trusted them

    2. Zzzzzz*

      There is no shopping in the U.S. There is only the ACA/healthcare.gov website and what your state offers on the “exchange.” Find out what plan you want/need, ask to be reimbursed 100% for those costs (and get it in writing!) and every year thereafter as costs go up get that in writing too as part of your salary. Info is put up every year around Thxgiving.

      1. Zzzzzz*

        One addition: ask about the tax implications of your company giving you cash–you have to pay on what they give you if it is seen as compensation.

      2. Momma Bear*

        Consider starting with looking at what providers you want to keep and what coverages they take. It may do you no good if you really want to keep your GP but they stop taking your insurance. That will help you narrow down what you’re looking for when you go the exchange/marketplace.

        1. Cyndi*

          I had a provider I really liked who I had to drop recently because they stopped taking my insurance, so ACTUALLY you’ve made me realize that this might be an opportunity to go back there, thank you!

          1. MigraineMonth*

            Some plans are set up to allow you to go out-of-network. My current plan is more expensive, but it has out-of-network coverage (with slightly higher copays/deductibles). So it’s more expensive, but worth it for me since my therapist isn’t in-network with many insurances.

      3. SG*

        My understanding and experience is that employer reimbursement for health insurance expenses is NOT taxable per federal law. There may be some special circumstance I am unaware of — I’m not an expert — but please look into this. I was going to post a link (check out healthcare dot gov for example) but didn’t want the comment to go through moderation.

    3. Goddess47*

      Find a broker… that’s their job to put together what you need (and can afford) vs what’s out there… Your peers may not have a broker immediately in mind, but either ask someone in the retirement level or at a senior center. My financial advisor has an insurance broker on their staff… so ask around.

      1. Jinni*

        This. I have had a broker for 20+ years of being self-employed (or working for an employer with no or VERY expensive insurance). She’s great. She does private and marketplace shopping. I tell her what I want/need/can afford. She sends me the plans, signs up for them, and tells me who to pay/when. Once a year (or if there’s a qualifying event), she reaches out – gives me the increases/options, and signs me up again. Maybe the employer has a broker contact? Or friends who are self-employed. I have zero idea on the reimbursement portion, though.

    4. Rosemary*

      No tips for insurance shopping, but in the meantime can you use COBRA? It tends to be pricey, but might be less painful if some of it is reimbursed by your new job. That would at least buy you some time to look into other options.

      1. Cyndi*

        I haven’t looked into it for this current transition yet, and I guess I wouldn’t hurt to check, but my experience from looking into COBRA after leaving previous jobs is that it cost more per month than my entire income, every time.

        1. Hiring Mgr*

          That is true about the expense of COBRA, but one advantage is that you can kind of pay as you go with it. If you don’t have any medical visits you don’t need to pay anything that month. Even if you do, you can wait and see if the cost of those bills is more than what COBRA would be before activating it. So it’s possible to ‘wait it out’ in that sense..

          I should add, this was true the last time I looked into COBRA which was 7-8 yrs ago, and I’m sure I missed some details there but i think this is more or less accurate

    5. Lasuna*

      Confirm what the network is like, and that any provider’s you want to keep are in network with the marketplace plan. In my area, everyone takes Large Insurer, but many doctors and even some hospitals are not in network with Large Insurer’s Marketplace Plans. To keep marketplace plans (more) affordable, many insurers have significantly smaller networks for their marketplace plans.

    6. Scarlet Ribbons in Her Hair*

      You said that your new workplace is too small for group health coverage. How small is it? Because I once worked at a company that employed between six and nine people at any given time (including the owner and me), and we had group health coverage. I’ve heard people say that they don’t get health insurance from their company because their company is so small, but invariably, their company had more employees than my company. Does your company have fewer than six employees?

      1. Cyndi*

        It’s probably too late for you to see this but yes, it’s smaller; it’s a one-attorney law firm where I will be the ONLY full-time employee except for the attorney, my new boss, who’s on his spouse’s health insurance. The only way for us to be a “group” at all would be for him to upend his family’s current healthcare situation.

  10. QueerExplorer*

    Training for Process Designers/Improvers

    I’ve recently started a role designing and improving business processes for a non-profit; and have the chance to do a course through my employer.

    My manager suggested looking into Lean Six Sigma, which I know a bit about and know is well recognised, but my colleagues don’t have great feedback about the course. There are lots of options available to me including Business Process Modelling/Mapping, Business Analysis, Change Management, Agile, etc.

    I’d be keen to hear from anyone doing similar work on what courses/ learning you have found most useful, or feedback about any of the above. Thanks!

    1. Purely Allegorical*

      I’m currently a change manager and just got the certification in it (CCMP). I haven’t heard of Lean Six Sigma before. But I would rec change management courses, there’s really good info there about process — though they tend to be more focused on the human-side of change, rather than the technical side/project management side of change.

    2. Frankie*

      PROSCI, ADKAR or other change management will be useful for getting people on board and understanding how to work within an organization’s hierarchies (explicit or hidden). I wouldn’t try to apply Agile too far outside of the dev space, to be honest. Business analysis will be good for mapping out what things ideally should be. I think the change management is really needed for actually implementing change, though.

    3. But Not the Hippopotamus*

      Agile is, to the best of my knowledge, really meant for software development. it is being imported into other areas, and there ARE useful ideas, but it really should be, in my opinion, left to software development. I code, but don’t do software, and struggle with it sometimes in my own context, which is pretty darned close.

    4. change manager*

      I did my Prosci certification and though it’s great for building towards successfully implementing changes, it’s not really helpful for designing process changes.

  11. Minimal Pear*

    What is and is not appropriate to sing at karaoke with one’s coworkers?
    My coworkers have mentioned karaoke as a possible activity. It probably won’t happen anytime soon, but I’m interested, and I’d like to be prepared. Here’s the problem–I’ve never done karaoke with coworkers before, and my music taste… Well, it tends towards a few different categories, none of which I think would be appropriate:
    1. “I Am So Very Very Sad About All The People I Murdered And I Am Going To Be Explicit And Homoerotic About It”
    2. “Ta Ra Toompty Toodle I Cuckolded My Landlord And Got Murdered”
    3. “Beep. Boop. Beep. Boop. I Am Going To Recite The Postal Oath. This Song Is Nine Minutes Long.”
    I don’t necessarily need song recs (although if you have them, I have a rather weak voice on the low end of soprano) just some guidelines on what I can and can’t use as a song.
    My workplace is pretty casual and leftie–in fact one category I’m considering is protest/union/workers rights songs.

    1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

      heh my music taste is ‘ in the 90s we were sad about things for no reason ‘ ‘sad dads singing cryptically ‘ disco and r&b but from the 90s. I go with the last two.

    2. EMP*

      In my limited karaoke experience, the machine will provide a range of pop songs to choose from so you can’t get too esoteric with the choices (although I would lean away from a “let’s get physical” type sexual pop hit myself)

      1. Minimal Pear*

        The last time I went to karaoke they pulled up the songs on youtube–I don’t know how typical that is but that experience made me think it might be an option. If it’s pop songs I’m pretty screwed, lol. I do know some (especially from the 80s) but I sound TERRIBLE singing them. It’s not like I’m trying to find the perfect song that makes me sound like an angel, but I’d like to not actively sound bad, yanno?

        1. linger*

          My go-to is The Clash “Should I Stay Or Should I Go”.
          (Pro: Extremely forgiving regarding performer’s ability to follow tune or rhythm. Con: may suggest you are not that wedded to this workplace.)
          Depeche Mode “Enjoy The Silence” is easier to perform than you’d expect: most of the melodic work is done by the backing track, and if you’d rather not be singing, the lyrics do take on a delicious irony.
          Garbage “I’m Only Happy When It Rains” could work for you given your cited themes.

      2. Roland*

        Any karaoke I’ve ever done has had a huge catalog of songs, not curated at all.

    3. CTT*

      I’ve done karaoke with coworkers several times and I feel like the usual karaoke “rules” apply (don’t pick anything too obscure or too long), with the extra caveat that you probably don’t want anything too raunchy or swear-y if that’s not your office’s vibe.

      1. Minimal Pear*

        Question about raunch factor–how do we feel about something along the lines of “Sugar We’re Going Down” by Fall Out Boy? It has a repeated line in the chorus about being a notch in someone’s bedpost and in one verse it has a line about “wishing to be the friction in your jeans” but that’s it. Is that too much? My office is moderately swear-y so I’m less worried about that.

        1. Gondorff*

          Personally I don’t consider this song even remotely raunchy, so I think you’re safe (my general rule of thumb would be if they play it on the radio without bleeping anything or changing the lyrics, you’re probably fine).

          Of course I’m someone who in my younger days at a particularly spectacular work party managed to convince my (much older male) boss to duet ‘Save a Horse, Ride a Cowboy’ with me, but I’d like to think my judgment has somewhat improved over the past decade.

        2. CTT*

          Agreed that I wouldn’t consider that raunchy, but also a lot of it is in how you sing it! Mr. Brightisde is one of my go-tos, and there are some eye-brow waggles and hand-gestures that I do late at night with friends that I do not do with colleagues.

        3. Cj*

          OMG, I love that song, and don’t consider it raunchy at all. in case it matters, I’m 62 years old, so it’s not a song I grew up with.

      1. Jezebella*

        Right? Like, link me to this entire genre of murdery pop songs? Or are these like English folk tunes of some kind? Appalachian murder ballads? I need to know.

        2. No Longer Gig-less Data Analyst*

          I have a playlist of “women murdering crappy men” songs. My faves are:

          Goodbye Earl
          No Body, No Crime
          Independence Day
          Sunny Came Home
          Man Down

      2. Minimal Pear*

        Not gonna lie, I spent a few days thinking about posting this question and laughing as I came up with those descriptions!
        1. Alt Rock/Emo/Pop Punk in general; this specific example is My Chemical Romance, the Revenge album
        2. Folk music in general, specifically referencing “Matty Groves”
        3. Laurie Anderson and similar Weird Stuff, specifically referencing “O Superman”

        1. emm*

          Now that you say #1, I should’ve clocked it, lol. Not as familiar with MCR’s catalog though.

          You mentioned FOB, Sugar We’re Going Down is probably the riskiest I’d go with personally, but from their discography, I’d probably feel safer with Immortals (if it’s fine for Disney, then it’s fine for work).

          If we’re thinking any pop punk band, I’d probably go with something like Good Riddance, Move Along or All the Small Things (though some higher-strung workplaces could take offense to “work sucks, I know” in that one).

          1. Minimal Pear*

            HAH All the Small Things is a good idea, my workplace is great but because of our general political vibe they’d be very on board with “work sucks, I know”.

        2. what the nope*

          Love the version of Matty Groves by Water Street Bridge. I can only find on a Marc Gunn podcast though.

    5. Dust Bunny*

      Always err on the side of keeping it light.

      This will depend somewhat on the event, of course, but karaoke is mostly for entertainment value. We all may really like “I Dreamed I Saw Joe Hill Last Night” but it’s still kind of a downer, both in subject matter and in tempo.

      1. House On The Rock*

        I’m laughing out loud thinking of someone singing this at karaoke. The crowd I do karaoke with would probably love it…then again, one of my spouse’s go to songs is Johnny Cash’s “25 Minutes To Go”.

    6. Double A*

      Avoid “Afternoon Delight,” especially if any of your coworkers are also relatives.

    7. Tio*

      Probably avoid religion, explicit lyrics, graphic murder, and anything over 5 minutes at most (the last one is more about fairness, people WILL get bored after about 3 min.) It’s less about the leaning and more about people going hmmmmmm at your taste.

      1. Tio*

        Side note: Also avoid anything with a long non-verbal interlude, like a guitar solo. Then it’s just you and everyone staring at each other while the imaginary person riffs it hard.

        1. House On The Rock*

          Corollary to that is avoid anything that has a very repetitive chorus, or ending. I once thought “Just Can’t Get Enough” by Depeche Mode would be a super fun party song…until you realize that you are just repeating the title ad nauseam for the last 30 or so seconds of the song, and it is not so fun.

    8. CarolinaCardinalis*

      Much as I would want to befriend a coworker that sang something like You Know What They Do To Guys Like Us In Prison (which came irresistibly to mind with that first bullet point of songs you like), probably best to not sing that in the workplace. With the caveats that you might want to observe what other people are singing first, and I do not do karaoke but do think about what music I listen to in a professional setting, I’d suggest avoiding anything with explicit violent or sexual content, anything with a lot of swear words (what constitutes a lot will depend on your workplace), anything that touches on political hot topics (school shootings etc), anything with content that seems likely to trigger someone (explicit discussion of mental health issues, assault, etc), and anything longer than 4-5 minutes (too long). Might be smart ahead of time to come up with some generally acceptable/“classic” songs you’d be okay singing even if they aren’t what you’d normally listen to.

      1. Minimal Pear*

        Now, now I have enough of a sense of decorum not to sing “Prison” at work karaoke. I was thinking “Deathwish” instead. :P (but yeah #1 is absolutely me referencing Revenge-era MCR)

    9. Llellayena*

      Broadway songs are usually a safe bet. (Please don’t sing Memory from Cats though. I say this as a high soprano who CAN sing that well and I STILL don’t subject people to that) Also for a low, light soprano, any song by Jewel is probably a good pick for your voice. If you have any interest in country music, that’s usually a good pick for karaoke.

      1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

        I was gonna say, Jewel or maybe Fiona Apple, and Faith Hill, Carrie Underwood, Shania Twain on the country side of things.

      2. No Longer Gig-less Data Analyst*

        I don’t go to karaoke because I’m a huge Broadway nerd with with a terrible voice, but after a few drinks I am 100% convinced that I can slay “Defying Gravity” doing both parts.

        Spoiler alert: I cannot.

      3. The Gollux, Not a Mere Device*

        Broadway is often a safe bet, but maybe not _Chicago_, and I’d be careful with Sondheim (much as I love his work).

    10. Damn it, Hardison!*

      Karaoke is my worst nightmare (only my cats like my singing), but if pressed I would go with Train in Vain or Should I Stay or Should I Go by The Clash. Either might be good for the crowd you described.

    11. GoryDetails*

      Heh! Excellent question – though I expect the answer varies wildly depending on specific workplaces/individuals. If I were up, I’d probably try one of those spoken-ballad songs – think Lorne Greene declaiming “Ringo” – as I don’t have a good singing voice at all. (Can manage if in a chorus, hanging on desperately to the notes coming from my neighbors {grin}.)

      I am fond of murder ballads myself, from the old folk songs to such teen-death-song pop hits as “Tell Laura I Love Her” – which would be great fun to act out while (attempting to) sing, though the “twisted wreck” and “dying breath” bits might be too much for a co-worker-type gathering.

      Something fun in the same vein: “Hannah Lee,” a country-western song performed by Johnny “Ballad of Paladin” Western. It’s about a woman who kills her cruel husband to be free to join the narrator, only to throw him under the bus when the law gets involved. And then she confesses to save her erstwhile lover’s life, and goes to the gallows herself. Classic tragedy, right? But the music is a hilariously upbeat, bouncy one, completely subverting the plot. I adore this song. [Can be heard on YouTube if you Google “Hanna Lee, Johnny Western”.] It’s… probably NOT listed on most karaoke sites, sadly…

      If I had to choose a song to actually try and sing to, I might go for something I love so much that I could (almost) forget myself while tackling it; “Running on Empty” by Jackson Browne, that kind of thing. [I expect I’d be booed off the stage within a stanza, but what the heck!]

    12. Silver Linings From Dreamland*

      A lot of 50s and 60s songs are pretty tame lyrically. I’m not a singer (and don’t even like trying) and the NSFW stuff I’m into is more in the Slayer vein but one other song I thought of that has a sort of “feelgood”, fun kind of vibe is the Friends theme song (“I’ll Be There For You” by the Rembrandts).

    13. Not my usual handle*

      Heheheheh, nothing better than a murder ballad.

      I recommend Violent Femmes, Country Death Song.

      Check out my Spotify playlist: death, murder, and revenge

    14. Polar Vortex*

      See if you can go later in the group – lie and say you need some courage – that way you can see what others sing and how they react. (But given you mention MCR/Fall Out Boy, you could probably get away with a lot of those since they’re all popular but older hits unless you’re in a very conservative older group.) ((I’ve definitely traded music lists with my old bosses and we’re all within 5 years of each other so nobody is phased by the music we share.))

      Else, a rule of thumb I’ve discovered: the older the song is, the more likely people don’t care about the content. You sing a song from today about banging someone and it’s not work appropriate, you sing something from the 50s, not so much. (Exception would be Marvin Gaye, there’s always an exception.) Some immediate thoughts: almost any Motown, You’re So Vain, anything Disney, and TLC’s No Scrubs.

        1. Polar Vortex*

          Lol yeah some of the old stuff is just as explicit as today’s honestly. It’s fun to blow people’s minds with that.

    15. Head sheep counter*

      I mean… if they sing along with you (eg its so catchy)… is it really work inappropriate??? :) For example: I like big butts, and I cannot lie… or Violent Femmes… or… there’s a tear in my beer…

    16. Dog and cat fosterer*

      There are a bunch of songs that do well as a group. A friend of mine can’t sing at all and I suggested the 500 miles song because it can be spoken and everyone can join in. I was there at the time and our group started the song with him and pretty quickly the room was all singing.

    17. Blah Blah*

      Just sing Livin’ on a Prayer by Bon Jovi and be done with it. Songs with crowd involvement tend to go over best.

      1. Minimal Pear*

        One thing I was considering re: crowd involvement is picking a “meme song” from the aughts, something like Dragostea Din Tei. A few of my coworkers seem like they would recognize those kinds of songs and maybe sing along.

    18. Forrest Rhodes*

      Miss Otis Regrets? The lyrics are the best, and the tune is easy.

      Or maybe the country classic I’ve Got Tears in My Ears from Lyin’ on My Back in My Bed, Cryin’ Over You?

      Okay, so I’m no help, right?

    19. WantonSeedStitch*

      OMG. I feel for you. The songs I belt out the most at home are 40s jazz, songs in your #2 category, sea shanties, and similar. I don’t know enough songs in other categories well enough to feel comfortable singing them in public. But I feel like generally speaking, nostalgic 80s or 90s pop rock stuff goes over well, and a lot of people manage to pick that stuff up by osmosis just by hearing it played in public places or at weddings or whatever.

    20. Donkey Hotey*

      I have two standard karaoke songs that I use on all occasions (because I know them and sing them well): Lyle Lovett’s “She’s no lady, she’s my wife” and Art of Noise/ Tom Jones’ cover of “Kiss.”

      All this to say, find something that you know well and so long as it’s not Nine Inch Nails “Animal” I doubt anyone will care. Ham it up and be corny. They’ll remember that more.

    21. Happily Retired*

      More of a crowd song, with brief interludes for soprano: “Tubthumping” by Chumbawamba. For you youngun’s, it’s a 90’s song about being unemployed in northern England with little else to do but go to the boozer. Perfect for a union crowd, especially the chorus: “I get knocked down, but I get up again / You’re never gonna knock me down”

      And I push to my higher range (for a mezzo) to sing, “Pissing the night away / Pissing the night away…”

    22. Firefighter (Metaphorical)*

      I have nothing to suggest but had to squee at your song titles! Also I now have O Superman in my head so thank you for that very welcome earworm

  12. RT*

    What quick little things do you keep (or wish you kept) in your office/workspace, just in case?

    I’m putting together my little kit for my next job (!!) and so far I want to include:
    * Dental floss
    * Chapstick
    * Stain stick
    * Spare masks
    * Spare set of clothes
    * Nail clippers (FOR HANGNAILS)

    What am I missing?

    2. Jess R.*

      I’m a big fan of always having some kind of baby wipe around. Recently, I’ve been very into witch hazel wipes because they’re doing beautiful things for my facial acne, but really, even store-brand baby wipes (which we have in bulk at my house) are a wonder for cleaning up little spills on yourself or your desk, or just giving yourself a brisk refresh when you’re warm and sweaty.

    3. Picard*

      tooth brush
      tooth paste
      mouthwash
      hand sanitizer
      nail file
      lip balm

      I dont keep extra clothes because my job doesnt entail anything that would be likely to stain and if I did have something that happened, I would just drive home and change (15 minutes away)

      We have masks on hand so I dont need to keep any and I dont clip my nails at work (ew gross) so yeah, no nail clippers.

      I do keep some snacks at my desk and I have one framed family photo on my desk

    5. londonedit*

      Blister plasters for when your (or someone else’s) shoes (usually ones you’ve worn 17 times previously with no issues) decide they’re going to attack your feet.

      1. Phony Genius*

        Just thought of another. If you live in a transit area, enough fare to get home.

    8. Sitting Pretty*

      A set or two of silverware, paper towels or napkins, extra menstrual products if you are someone who menstruates, a few ziplock baggies, a pashmina or shawl, sunscreen stick and/or brimmed hat for spontaneous coffee or lunchtime walks with coworkers

      1. Mockingjay*

        Silverware, yes! I went to Wally World and bought open stock flatware for about 98 cents per piece. Two each: knife, fork, spoon. Sturdy and washable, but nothing that I cared about should a spoon go astray. The office kitchen has plastic utensils but some meals need sturdier implements to consume.

    9. cardigarden*

      Honestly? A dedicated pair of sneakers for actual emergencies. A prior job was in a sensitive location and I had to be ready for the possibility of having to walk home.

      Less serious: deodorant, bandaids, ibuprofen/pepto/lactaid, fork

    11. Ama*

      Things not on your list that I used to keep in my desk when I was in office:
      Saline solution — even if you do not wear contacts it is useful if you/someone else gets something in their eye AND it can be used to get out any protein based stain).
      Fabric softener sheets — good for dealing with static cling in the winter
      Comfortable but work appropriate shoes that I can use in the winter when I wear my boots to work (or if my other shoes get soaked in an unexpected rain storm or break in transit, which has also happened, I’ve had more shoe issues than clothing issues at work)
      Cardigan that goes with almost any outfit (I run cold at work)
      Spare umbrella

    12. Panicked*

      I always have meds on hand; tylenol, tums, cough drops, etc…

      Emery board

      Contact solution and a spare pair of glasses

      Deodorant/antiperspirant

    13. Charlotte Lucas*

      Extra chargers
      Kleenex
      Padlock (I sometimes use our fitness room, & there’s a locker room)
      Pen/pencil
      Tote bag (I sometimes need extra carrying capacity by the end of my day)
      Light cardigan

    14. No Tribble At All*

      Unscented hand lotion! Every office I’ve ever worked in is cold and dry. Moisturize me.

      1. T. Boone Pickens*

        Yup, came here for this. I’ve worked in some meatlocker like offices in the past and my hands would get pretty gnarly. I had to make sure I was moisturized.

    15. Trina*

      Microwavable rice bag – when cramps or even just a headache strikes at the office, heating it up has done wonders for my comfort while waiting for medication to kick in. I actually have been without for a few months because we had a mouse problem and it chewed mine up, and several times I have missed it dearly.

    16. Manchmal*

      salt! there is nothing worse than being stuck with an underseasoned lunch (whether you brought it from home or bought it). I laways have a dedicated salt shaker at my desk!

      2. linger*

        Flavourings I stored in my last office: salt, pepper, ketchup, tabasco, powdered parmesan, garlic powder, and a shaker containing a blend of basil, oregano, rosemary, and paprika I mixed up at home. Oh, and vanilla essence (for rescuing bad coffee).

    17. Dust Bunny*

      Snacks/backup lunch material (canned soup, etc.)

      I have tweezers, nail clippers, bottle opener, pocket knife, nail file, tire pressure gauge, several kinds of pens, extra safety pins, a can of cat food, a hand lens, NSAIDS, microfiber lens cloth, and sometimes a guitar capo (hey, you never know) in my handbag, anyway.

        1. Dust Bunny*

          And I have a leave-at-the-office jacket. With pockets.

          Umbrella.
          Small sewing kit.
          Kleenex.

          I probably have too much stuff here.

      3. Always Bring Pickles to a Potluck*

        Heating pad if you are prone to menstrual cramps or back aches. Hair ties/clips if you have long hair.

    20. DoodleBug*

      Refillable water bottle or mug for your desk. And a cleaning cloth for your eyeglasses, if you wear them.

    21. Momma Bear*

      Coffee pods (used to have a k-cup coffee maker, too, but the office got new ones)
      tissues
      hand sanitizer/hand wipes
      hand lotion
      spare utensils/napkins/mug
      mini bottle of nail polish remover and a few cotton balls
      deodorant
      snacks
      basic OTC meds
      sanitary products
      spare office sweater/light fleece
      low socks/flats
      wall charger

      I keep my brush, spare charger, etc. in my bag.

    22. Mr egg*

      For some things unmentioned: Tweezers (because I am prone to random splinters), lint roller, ibuprofen, hand cream, glasses wipe, ginger candy (for nausea), toothpicks, mouthwash tablets, and ibuprofen!

    23. Downpour*

      I keep a spare set of shoes in my desk drawer. My commute involves a bit of walking and there’s nothing worse to me than my shoes being soggy. In a similar vein, a small umbrella for unexpected showers, too.

    24. Mid-West Nice*

      Always have a travel set of Painkillers:
      Acetaminophen
      Ibuprofen
      Aleve
      Not all places have these available and even if you don’t need it one of your new coworkers could.
      Pepto-Bismol (generic equivalent) is also good
      Antacid tablets for when the Thai food was spicier than you expected.
      Cell phone charging cable and wall charger are also nice

    25. By Golly*

      I keep a couple of shelf stable backup lunch options (cup o noodle and those boil/microwave bag indian food things) and some snacks/chocolate. and tea bags. hand lotion.

      1. Kettle Belle*

        –Alka Seltzer
        — Excedrin
        –Aluminum Foil
        — spare reading glasses (and contact lenses)
        — Shopping bags
        –Face Masks

    28. Head sheep counter*

      I envy you a drawer… my next office better have a drawer. Currently, I have an empty (well crap stashed on it) long book case and a three drawer lateral file. I work somewhere… you can’t have your own printouts stored in such things… so its frustrating. I like your list. If you use it… deodorant

    29. DataSci*

      Basic first aid kit. Snacks. Water bottle.

      If you have more space, think about what sort of emergency is likely to happen in your area, and plan for it. In LA, this was “major earthquake makes roads impassible and we need to shelter in place”. So enough shelf stable food for a couple days. In DC, it’s “lockdown means the only way out is on foot”, so it’s good walking shoes.

    30. Unkempt Flatware*

      quick cold remedies or allergy remedies like alka seltzer tabs, saline nose spray, tummy meds, etc.

    31. Aphrodite*

      Toothbrush, toothpaste, floss
      Bar soap (Dove Sensitive Skin)
      Disposable gloves and masks
      Small hand mirror
      Tweezers
      Emery boards
      Pinkish chapstick
      Mascara
      Two pairs of underwear
      Trash bag liners
      Paper towels
      Paper bags
      Salt and pepper grinders
      Tabasco
      Set of flatware (for 4)
      Glass dinner plate, salad plate, bowl
      Glass pitcher
      Wine glass
      Mug
      Canned soup (Beef Barley from Progresso) as emergency lunch backup
      Vinegar (gallon jug) for cleaning
      Mini microwave
      Small (but not tiny) refrigerator

    32. anon24*

      Everyone has great suggestions but I’ll add my kit. At my last long time job I rotated sites on a 2 week schedule and didn’t have storage, so every day I had to bring with me everything I’d need for the day. So I didn’t want too much, but also whatever I’d conceivably need. Of course, your mileage may vary. My backpack included:

      – Small pack with my favorite loose leaf tea, a few packs of individual sugars, and a loose leaf tea ball steeper thing
      – insulated tea mug
      – A small tin with an assortment of individual snacks, granola bars, cheezits, etc
      – mints of some sort
      -one of those small Bumble bee chicken salad lunch kits (they don’t taste amazing but are small, shelf stable, and are great in a pinch)
      – A zip lock bag with what I called “my pharmacy”. I had a bunch of OTC meds for different ailments, such as Aspirin, aleve, ibuprofen, Tylenol, benadryl, cough drops, etc. I even had stuff I didn’t use but knew the people I worked with did, so I always was the go-to person.
      – Enough tampons so that if by some freak of nature both myself and the person I was working with both ended up having massive emergencies for a 16 hour shift we’d both be supplied (never happened thank the gods, but better safe than sorry)
      – A phone charger with a wall plug and a small battery pack that gave me 2-3 full charges
      – 2 sets of earbuds
      – A corded mouse for my laptop (and my laptop and cable)
      – Extra socks and underwear
      – extra pens
      – sport wipes
      -2 different kinds of lotion, a thicker greasy kind and your standard hand lotion
      – hand sanitizer
      – a couple extra hair ties
      – eyeglass cleaning and repair kit and extra microfiber wipes
      – extra PPE, masks, spare pair of goggles
      -and other things like spare batteries for my flashlight and spare charging cords for any electronics that I had with me or regularly carried.
      – In the colder months I’d tuck a smaller fleece blanket on top to wrap up in when I had time to sit down.

    33. Employed Minion*

      One thing I didn’t see mentioned is Imodium. That will STOP whatever is happening and give you a chance to get home.

    34. Too embarrassed to leave my name.*

      An extra set of underwear. Because, um, accidents will happen.

  13. Strict Extension*

    For the first time one of my direct reports is leaving for a position outside the organization. Other than a pleasant and constructive notice period and promise of a good reference, is there anything else you would have liked to get from your supervisor when leaving an organization? Ours is typically a very familial and festive org, so I’m already anticipating that we will have a little snacky gettogether for everyone on her last day. If it makes a difference, the position is very early career, and she’s leaving for a parallel position with better benefits. Also, we are both part of a small freelance community in a related industry, so I’ll still be seeing her a lot, but it would no longer be the same relationship dynamic.

    1. Friday Person*

      I feel like this is a situation where a thoughtful note/card would be really nice to hold onto!

      1. Momma Bear*

        I agree. Or maybe some small gift like something useful or pretty for her future office.

    2. Purely Allegorical*

      Do a Kudosboard — online tool where people can do a digital version of the going-away card. You set a time for the link to go to the recipient and then they can download it for later. It’s always nice being able to go back and read the nice things that coworkers have said about you.

    3. Tricia*

      An email to their personal email address with things like company contact numbers / email addresses for HR, their manager, health benefit info and anything else that they might need to follow up on. For instance – if they have questions about their W2 (or in Canada their T4) next year, it would helpful for them to have an email with the contact info they will need.

  14. Picard*

    As an employer looking to hire someone for an open position, may I offer a word of advice? Please please please, put your email and your phone number somewhere on your resume that Indeed cant strip it out. I have at least one candidate that I would LOVE to get in touch with (they have applied for this position twice so I do know they are interested) but they don’t appear to get the notices from Indeed and there is no email or phone number because its been stripped by indeed. I will not be able to interview them or hire them because of the process

    (yes I know I COULD discretely contact their place of employment but that just feels a bit squick to me)

    1. Jess R.*

      I had no idea Indeed stripped out contact info from your resume! I have no idea how to put them in so that they can’t be removed (any suggestions?) but that’s super good information to have.

        1. Minimal Pear*

          When I worked in recruitment (a few years ago) Indeed didn’t strip your contact info if you uploaded your own resume. But I think if you made your resume through Indeed, they removed your email address. They might have left the phone number on? I remember that however they had it set up, it seemed like they were really pushing people to message back and forth through their messaging system.

      1. Picard*

        This particular candidate has not updated their linkedin since 2 jobs ago (per their resume) so I doubt they check it very often.

        2. Hiring Mgr*

          If you send them a LinkedIn request or message though, it should still make it to their email inbox, even if they don’t use LI at all. Worth a try

    3. Corrigan*

      Do you not have access to the full resume? (I have no idea how Indeed works, so I’m curious!)

      1. Picard*

        Not if they just fill in the data on Indeed’s website. If they upload their own PDF, then yes.

    4. Jezebella*

      Well this is alarming. Is it possible nobody can actually reach me based on my Indeed profile? WTF?

    5. Momma Bear*

      I’ve had that happen. HR handed me a resume but there no contact info or cover letter and no easy way to follow up. HR didn’t have any info. Applicant left it off their resume, I guess assuming that it would come with their application package. I’d rather get it twice than not at all.

    6. Parenthesis Guy*

      Indeed wants to make sure you go through them so that they get paid. Otherwise, you can deny the application and then email them yourself.

      1. Picard*

        I’m sure thats why (although we always pay if we did get the contact through Indeed)

    7. Picard*

      So basically if you upload your resume to indeed, I’ll be able to find your info. If you use the Indeed resume builder or their formatting process, they strip it. They leave an “indeed”.com email and have a button to “call” that requires a PIN and who knows how it shows the the job candidate but they have never ever answered (or gotten a message I guess?)

      I cant tell you how aggravating it is an an employer trying to hire to have to chase down candidates and then sadly, at the end, never even be able to get in touch with someone you think has a great shot at your position.

  15. Theon, Theon, it rhymes with neon*

    Does anyone have any recommendations for talks/lectures/videos on communication for a socially awkward, diagnosed-with-anxiety manager who wants to help his reports, but doesn’t know how to talk to them?

    My boss is struggling with giving clear expectations to his (our) reports. He’s socially anxious and well-meaning, and he will try everything to help people succeed *except* talking to them. This has reached the point where major, high-visibility (to C-levels) projects aren’t getting done because of confusion over who’s supposed to do what by when, and as a result, people are getting fired, almost fired, and not promoted due to failing to meet expectations they didn’t know about.

    My bosse does now realize his communication avoidance is a problem with increasingly high-stakes consequences, and he does want to change. He’s asked me for recommendations on talks and videos that can help with this, since he’s dyslexic and learns best that way.

    I’m…I don’t *exactly* have a speech processing disorder, but watching or listening to something is like pulling teeth for me. I don’t consume shows, movies, or podcasts for this reason. So I have zero recommendations to give him, and would rather go to the dentist than listen to a bunch of talks to figure out which are the good ones.

    So I’m throwing out a request for recs to the AAM crowd.

    For context, the kind of reports he’s struggling with are those who are quiet, hard-working team players who are reluctant to speak up when they want something or when something isn’t working for them, and who don’t proactively check in to make sure they’re on the same page about expectations. At least one of these reports has a diagnosed anxiety disorder that I know of, and the other has said he comes from a background where you were punished for speaking up. So while I’m coaching them too, I need the boss to be able to meet them halfway.

    Examples of beginner-level conversations I’d like my boss to be able to initiate with his reports are:

    – “I’m expecting you to be this far along on this project by this date; let me know if anything comes up that might impact that.”
    – “Do you think you’ll be able to work on these two projects in parallel, or would that be too much?”
    – “What are the obstacles you’re encountering?” (in a variety of contexts)

    Intermediate conversation examples:
    – Coaxing other socially anxious people to tell him what projects are interesting to them, so they can be assigned to those projects where possible.
    – “How is collaborating with Jane working out for you?”

    More advanced conversations:
    – “These skills, soft and hard, are what it takes to succeed in our field,” and general mentoring.
    – “What are you looking for in your career, and how can we support that?”

    At the very least, he needs to start being able to do the beginner-level conversations asap, so those are what’s most important to me in terms of recs.

    Thanks!

    1. Dust Bunny*

      (I also do not do podcasts because I stink at auditory processing and cannot absorb anything by ear) does your workplace have an EAD? Because he might do better starting with this as an address-the-underlying-anxiety situation.

      1. Theon, Theon, it rhymes with neon*

        I *can* do auditory processing, I did fine during school and if there’s a lecture or talk I’m particularly interested in, or a meeting at work. I just get very bored and frustrated spending 30 minutes listening to something I could skim in 3 minutes. (The person on my team who has an actual speech processing disorder struggles with meetings and conversations, which is why I can’t say I have a disorder. I just have impatience. ;))

        To address the actual topic, we do have an EAP, but he’s been getting professional therapy for years and is continuing to get it. Do you think an EAP on top of that would add anything?

        What I think, and the angle I’m coming at this from, is if he has tools and scripts to reach for, and isn’t just floundering on his own, it might make him *less anxious*. People feel more anxious when they don’t know how to do something, but if they know what they’re doing, things become less scary.

        My impression is that he doesn’t know how to bring things up in a non-confrontational-seeming way, so he avoids bringing them up, and then problems arise, and then he’s frustrated, and then any time he thinks about bringing it up, he knows he’ll be coming from a place of frustration, so he puts it off *more*, and then…vicious cycle. What I want to do is give him scripts for addressing things *before* they’re problems, so that he doesn’t need to be coming from a place of frustration and it doesn’t need to be as scary.

        Because, yeah, “It’s been a month, why isn’t X ready yet?” is a much scarier conversation than “FYI, I’m hoping to have X in the next couple weeks.” And it’s the latter kind of conversation he needs to start having, and given the work ethics and competence of people on the team, having that conversation will remove the need to have 99% of the “Why isn’t it done yet?” conversations!

        1. Chipmunk*

          But why is his frustration directed at his staff? They can’t work within guidelines he has refused to give them.

          Also, most of this sounds like basic project management. When new tasks are assigned they should have goal posts and deadlines attached. Why is that not happening in the beginning when no one should feel frustrated or scared?

          If your boss’s inability to do his job is getting his staff fired, I’d be looking at talking to HR, not trying to help your boss.

          Or maybe coach your coworkers to be proactive and work around him so they don’t get fired at the very least.

          1. Theon, Theon, it rhymes with neon*

            “Why is that not happening in the beginning when no one should feel frustrated or scared?”

            That’s exactly what I’m saying! We need to have the less scary conversations first, when no one is frustrated or scared, just to do basic project management! That’s why I don’t think addressing the anxiety is the problem here; the anxiety is an offshoot of not having basic project management skills.

            “If your boss’s inability to do his job is getting his staff fired, I’d be looking at talking to HR, not trying to help your boss.”

            I actually did talk to HR the first time someone got fired over this, and that’s how I got promoted to have the authority to keep it from happening again. Now I am using that authority. He has promised he won’t fire anyone again without me being 100% on board, which means there will be clear expectations and a PIP before anyone gets fired for performance.

            “Or maybe coach your coworkers to be proactive and work around him”

            That’s also what I’m doing! But I am trying to attack this problem from both angles, since it seems to give us the best odds. None of these people know how to do basic communication, and I am coaching them. But the coworkers are not the ones who asked for videos, so they’re not the ones I’m asking for recs for. (Maybe next Friday I will be!)

            “But why is his frustration directed at his staff?”

            The answer to this is because neither he nor his high performers have ever needed this kind of specific guidance. I will knock things out fast enough that no one’s ever left wondering why they’re not done yet, so will a number of the other people on the team, and my boss definitely never got guidance on when things should be done by. He’s superman when it comes to getting things done (that’s how he got promoted without training; you promote the best individual contributor without recognizing that management is a skill). He literally comes from a background of poor management where if you can’t do that, you get fired, and has always thought that’s an inevitable feature of work.

            And like, maybe the guy who got fired would have had to be fired eventually anyway. He wasn’t even doing a fraction of what my boss and I figured out on our own. But it was his first corporate job, he only had one year of vocational training before entering the workforce, and I think he deserved to at least be mentored on the things he wasn’t spontaneously picking up! Yes, I also entered my first corporate job with only a little training and knocked it out of the park. But some people can thrive as long as you spell things out.

            1. Chipmunk*

              Honestly, what’s team morale like? Even if your boss somehow figures out how to be an actual manager, are the remaining staff going to trust that their jobs are safe and that he is actually sharing all needed details with them.

              It sounds like he needs to return to an IC role and YOU take over as manager.

              Another thought, if your boss is used to the dynamic of “you can’t do it, you get fired.” Has he applied that to himself? Does he get that he can’t do the job and therefore…

              Plus his ability to figure out work on his own without instruction is…ironic considering he’s asking for instructions on how to do his job. And then penalizing his own staff for needing the exact same thing.

              Also, do you guys have any kind of training? If you have half your staff who can work independently right out of the gate and half who can’t, that seems like there are gaps in your hiring and training processes.

              I think it’s very kind of you to help him out, but I’m not sure that doing so benefits…anyone, at this point.

              1. Theon, Theon, it rhymes with neon*

                I can tell you that team morale is 1000% better than it was under our previous bosses (I’ve been here over 6 years). Yes, there are some lingering issues that I’m working on resolving, but the thing is…he gives almost exclusively positive feedback, and work/life balance is excellent.

                So while the lack of clear guidance is definitely leading to some dissatisfaction, which I’ve pinpointed and he’s acknowledged, I don’t see anything I can’t address here.

                “It sounds like he needs to return to an IC role and YOU take over as manager.”

                Ah, but you’re missing two pieces of the puzzle here: he is the one dealing with corporate politics, and his boss is a nightmare and I would quit if I had to work to work with him (that’s why my boss got promoted and I didn’t). If you search AAM for “I think my assistant would be better at my job than I am,” my boss could have written that letter. I’m only thriving at leading the team *because* he’s my boss. I was on the verge of quitting with my last two bosses, and I had no social capital at all with them because we were constantly at loggerheads.

                I’ve told him that if he quits and I get promoted to his job and have to report to Grandboss, I probably quit shortly after. He said I could probably negotiate to report to Great-grandboss, but I’ve worked for him, and that was only slightly better.

                My boss has also pointed out that if I want his job, I have to learn to not alienate everyone I can’t stand, and that he’s willing to coach me on that if I want his job. Which I don’t yet, but it’s on the back burner. Coaching him on improving his skills while getting more involved in managing his projects is the next step toward that for me.

                “Another thought, if your boss is used to the dynamic of “you can’t do it, you get fired.” Has he applied that to himself? Does he get that he can’t do the job and therefore…”

                Hahaha, yes, I’ve pointed that that to him specifically, and he’s agreed with me that he needs to extend grace to everyone else. The problem is that you don’t know what you don’t know: if you’ve been taught that your job is not to give clear direction, but to weed out people who don’t need it, then you think you are doing your job! I’m apparently the first person to show him a better way. He’s surprisingly receptive to all my feedback and not letting ego (or refusal to grasp that it is a better way) get in the way!

                “Also, do you guys have any kind of training? If you have half your staff who can work independently right out of the gate and half who can’t”

                Hahaha, it’s kind of endemic to our field (not quite software engineering, but close) that you’re expected to figure things out on your own. I’m trying to introduce better ways, but he didn’t invent that mindset, nor did our company. It’s the flip side of being able to make a ton of money with no education or work experience: if you can teach yourself, the world is your oyster. If you can’t, no one’s got the skillset to explain things; we’re all neurodivergent nerds who were selected for being able to pick technical skills up without explanation. (I am also a neurodivergent nerd who was selected for being able to pick technical skills up without explanation; but one, I’m naturally good with words, two, I have recently learned to compensate somewhat for my abysmal people skills by studying psychology, in an effort to trying to understand how people work, and it’s paying off.) And I got some management training at a previous job, as I mentioned.)

                “I think it’s very kind of you to help him out, but I’m not sure that doing so benefits…anyone, at this point.”

                I would say it’s had massive benefits just this week, in that people are starting realize they need to ask about deadlines and he’s starting to realize he needs to volunteer them. It’s been great for me to be involved in more project management of the sorts of projects I need more experience with if I’m going to move up. If he doesn’t improve, it won’t benefit anyone, but if it does, I don’t see why helping him get better at leading doesn’t benefit anyone. He’s only had his first real wake-up call 2 days ago, I’d like to give him at least a month to improve.

                I’m losing track of which subthread I’ve said what in; did I mention/did you see that I got promoted to co-manager and given a raise specifically to help cover his communication gaps? I make more than he does, and it’s in my job description to have performance conversations, so…does that change the tenor of the feedback I’m getting?

                1. Mighty midget*

                  Thank you for this excellent, clear and patient post. I can see why you’re good at your job!

                2. Theon, Theon, it rhymes with neon*

                  “if you’ve been taught that your job is not to give clear direction, but to weed out people who don’t need it”

                  Extra negative: that should read, “weed out people who need it.”

                3. Firefighter (Metaphorical)*

                  I want to watch a TV show set at your office! This dynamic & set of problems/personalities is FASCINATING.

                  My work subscribes to LinkedIn Learning and they have a ton of videos that might help your boss, everything from 30-second “nanotips” on specific phrases to use through to full-length multi-part trainings. If it would help I can chuck some links in a separate comment to specific videos, but obviously they are paywalled so it only helps if your institution has a subscription.

                4. Theon, Theon, it rhymes with neon*

                  Firefighter, we do have LinkedIn Learning! Specific links would be *great*!! Maybe lifesaving!

                  Also, lol, a few open threads back, someone said I should write a book on management and they would buy it, and in this thread I’ve been thinking, “Here. Here’s another chapter,” about my long posts on deadlines, performance assessment, and communication in tech. Now you want a TV show, lol! :’D

                  I think part of the fascination is that I can see where everyone’s coming from. There are no villains, just complicated people with understandable motives in isolation, which lead to conflicts when they intersect.

                  My boss really did believe that 1) everyone understood what was being asked of them, 2) providing clear direction isn’t part of the job; after all, no one ever did it for *him*, high performers just spontaneously self-manage and everyone else is weeded out, 3) he was fairly assessing people’s performance, 4) if projects weren’t getting done, it’s because the people assigned to them weren’t good skill and motivation fits for those projects.

                  And I’m sitting here going, “But I can see everyone doing what they’re told and trying really hard to follow direction and be good team players! We can channel all that skill and motivation if we give better direction!”

                  So I can see why the plot and characterization here is interesting. :)

                5. Firefighter (Metaphorical)*

                  Ran out of nesting! Here are some LinkedIn Learning links – mostly searching for “project management”, “setting expectations”, “manager communication tasks” etc. There are transcripts, so you don’t have to watch the videos before seeing if they might work for your boss. Hopefully if he starts here, LinkedIn will start recommending relevant things to him. Good luck!!

                  https://www.linkedin.com/learning/communication-for-product-managers/product-manager?autoplay=true&resume=false&u=74652914

                  https://www.linkedin.com/learning/holding-your-team-accountable/communicating-clear-expectations?autoplay=true&resume=false&u=74652914

                  https://www.linkedin.com/learning/communicating-as-a-leader-nano-tips-with-jessica-chen/overcoming-the-fear-to-lead?autoplay=true&u=74652914

                  https://www.linkedin.com/learning/delegating-tasks/welcome?autoplay=true&u=74652914

                  https://www.linkedin.com/learning/project-management-foundations-communication-2019/communication-skills-benefit-projects?autoplay=true&u=74652914

                6. Theon, Theon, it rhymes with neon*

                  Firefighter: there are even transcripts for me? This is great! Thanks so much!

              2. Theon, Theon, it rhymes with neon*

                “Even if your boss somehow figures out how to be an actual manager, are the remaining staff going to trust that their jobs are safe and that he is actually sharing all needed details with them.”

                I should add that the person who was almost fired doesn’t know he was almost fired; only my boss and I know that, and I put a stop to it. He now (as of 2 days ago) knows that despite exclusively positive feedback, Boss was secretly wondering why things weren’t done, but he also knows that Boss has acknowledged his management failure, and that we’re all working on not letting it happen again.

                So like I said, not ideal, but I think it’s fixable.

                1. Chipmunk*

                  Ok, I was thinking your boss has been knowingly struggling this whole past year, rather than for just a couple of days. It doesn’t make it better on his end, but it explains your willingness to help him so much. Lol.

                  I don’t necessarily think that having the requirement of being a self starter is bad…but you’ve already seen how that can weed out staff from diverse backgrounds, such as the employee from a different culture. Would it help your boss if you also phrased it as a DEI issue? He benefits from having a more diverse team with different viewpoints, but that means he has to change his style to fit the needs of his staff so he can get the best results from them. And what field are you in? I’m great at figuring stuff out on my own and would love to get paid to solve problems and teach myself. XD (I mean, I have a design and comms background, which is a lot of that kind of work except we have very defined deadlines that are communicated over and over. Getting what we need to meet the deadlines is another issue…and sometimes the self starting ability can save your butt there.)

                  I’ll say this reminds me a lot of past relationships I have had with some of my bosses. I was never in the exact scenario that you are in, where I was brought in to fill in for their areas of weakness. But I definitely have had bosses where I could have blunt conversations about how they are impacting the team. Ultimately what resulted was always an acknowledgment of the shortcomings, but no actual change from the boss. It was very frustrating because these were people who were great at certain aspects of their jobs and they’re people I genuinely like and learned from. So for me to say “here’s the problem AND solution!” And to hear back that they agreed and then nothing changed…argh!

                2. Theon, Theon, it rhymes with neon*

                  Ran out of nesting, so replying to Chipmunk here:

                  “Ok, I was thinking your boss has been knowingly struggling this whole past year, rather than for just a couple of days.”

                  I’ve been pointing out intermittently for a year that he should TELL people what the deadlines are, but he’s been thinking that another reasonable solution is to conclude that the project was too hard for them, to tell them “good job”, and to assign them to another project that they can be more successful on, in hopes of allowing them to play to their strengths. I kept telling him in a low-key way that that wasn’t a great solution, but his anxiety kept telling him it would be way easier than learning to communicate directly (scary!), so he kept convincing himself it was a great and totally viable approach to management.

                  Only last month, after a year of trying different projects and concluding that one particular report is good at some things but not others, but we really need someone who can do the things he was hired for, did my boss start thinking out loud at me about whether we should fire the report because he can’t do the most important things we need, or keep him because he does do a lot of really good work elsewhere, including in places where we didn’t expect.

                  I said that I didn’t think we could judge how good the report was at the biggest projects, since I was convinced that the report was doing exactly what he thought he was supposed and allowed to do. I said if he wasn’t making certain decisions and acting on them, it’s because he thought he had to wait for Boss to make the final decisions. I got Boss to promise to put any discussion of firing on hold until I came back from vacation.

                  I came back this week, and on Wednesday I talked to the report. I told him he was authorized to make these decisions, because Boss isn’t an IC any more and doesn’t have time. (The other problem with promoting the best IC without training is that they keep doing hands-on IC work, which blurs the boundaries.)

                  Report went, “Oh, I’m supposed to actually build these products? I thought my job was just R&D! I was wondering why no one was ever building the things I researched. I would love to build them!”

                  Me: “Well, that explains why Boss keeps saying that you’re finding lots of good information but the projects aren’t moving forward.”

                  That same day, I told Boss about this. He was flabbergasted, I was not. Yesterday, the three of us met, agreed to start with a mutual clean slate, and and we proceeded to establish clearly defined expectations (i.e. did project management). Report knows he was expected to do things he wasn’t told about despite positive feedback, but he doesn’t know he was almost fired, and he knows that I’ll be working closely with him and Boss to train them both to communicate better.

                  Right after that, I grabbed Boss, and said, “So, are we clear on the fact that if this high-visibility project didn’t get done FOR A YEAR because of lack of communication, and our report almost got fired, your acknowledged communication issues are no longer a nice-to-have for you to improve someday, but something that urgently needs to improve asap?”

                  And he said yes, and agreed with everything I said, and asked for training video recs. This was 24 hours ago, so, yes, I’m willing to help.

                  I also may have used too impersonal language when I said “people were fired/almost fired/not promoted”: he’s the one making the decisions here, now with my input. So as long as I’ve got him convinced he’s the main problem, no one gets fired/almost fired any more without my say-so. So it’s not like people are in danger of getting fired until he gets better at this. I’m the safety net here.

                  “I don’t necessarily think that having the requirement of being a self starter is bad…but you’ve already seen how that can weed out staff from diverse backgrounds, such as the employee from a different culture.”

                  It’s always been pretty common to enter this field with little to no relevant education and very little training, just tinkering in your spare time, so I wouldn’t describe that as a “different culture.” I think part of the problem is that’s exactly what my boss (and I, and his boss, and probably everyone else in the history of the team) did, so the really successful people largely think no mentoring or training should be necessary, because they certainly didn’t need it!

                  Now, if someone really *did* enter from a legitimately different culture, yes, not understanding corporate norms, for example, could be a hindrance. So there is an argument to be made there.

                  “And what field are you in? I’m great at figuring stuff out on my own and would love to get paid to solve problems and teach myself.”

                  Systems and database administration, increasingly transitioning to devops engineering, in this brave new world of ~The Cloud~. The thing is that you can totally come into tech with a degree in history and one year of software school, and have all the technical skills you need to get hired. Because there is no school that will teach you what you actually need to know on the job, i.e. the specific error messages you encounter (you have to google them, read stackoverflow, and use your brain) or the legacy code of the specific company you work at, so formal education in computer science is usually expensive and pointless. And if you can teach yourself tech on the job, you can make oodles of money.

                  BUT. What they don’t teach you in software school is that there are a dozen different soft and “soft hard” skills you need to actually keep your job, such as:
                  – Excruciating, character-level attention to detail.
                  – Ability to tinker successfully with software. This is made up of several components that come naturally to some people and don’t to others.
                  – A sense of the sweet spot of when to ask for help and when to troubleshoot on your own.
                  – A sense of the sweet spot of how far “above and beyond” to go. If you only do what you’re explicitly asked to do, you will be fired within 3 years, but if you’re a perfectionist, you’ll only get one or two things done when you should be getting 10 done.
                  – Risk assessment skills, so that you don’t break too many things but also don’t get paralyzed and never accomplish anything.
                  – Estimating unknowns (it’s dark magic, basically).
                  – A dozen little communication habits, which you wouldn’t think neurodivergent nerds would be notable for, but there are some very specific things that we successful ones do naturally, and some people need coaching on.
                  – Etc.

                  They don’t teach you this in school. They teach you code syntax, and then they send you out into the wild feeling pretty good about your As, and then you realize it’s sink or swim with all the personality traits and unspoken expectations. (I’m not talking about deadline expectations like my boss, I’m talking about the soft skill expectations I described above.)

                  If you’re missing too many of those skills, you will get fired. If you’re missing just certain ones, you will not rise as high as your technical skills warrant.

                  What I’m doing is telling people on my team about those unspoken skills, and giving them the chance to see if they can pick skills up with effort if they don’t come naturally. Aka, I am mentoring (the only manager in the history of my team that has ever seen the point of doing so). This is in *addition* to the fact that my boss isn’t doing effective project management and isn’t even telling people about deadlines they need to know about to succeed, which I’m coaching *him* on. (In addition to telling the team members that aren’t already spontaneously doing it that they need to *ask*, and they need to *keep asking*.)

                  Part of the problem is that there are almost no hard deadlines in the field, and they fluctuate constantly. So it’s never “this must be done by X date.” It’s more, “work on this, and I will judge your performance by how long it takes you in proportion to how hard it turns out to be and how much other work you’re doing.” You never know how hard a technical problem is going to be when you set out to solve it, and your priorities shift from day to day, sometimes hour to hour. There’s always new external asks coming in, and you’re always finding more stuff that needs to be fixed/updated/documented.

                  So what I’ve been training Boss to communicate is, “I will be surprised if X isn’t done by Y date and I don’t know why.” Because everything’s flexible, but his performance evaluation is based on his level of surprise at how long someone is taking to do something. This is why I also have to train my reports that a key factor for success in this field, and not just with this boss, is communicating when something is taking longer than expected because it turned out to be surprisingly complicated, and when it’s because you were assigned a bunch of other work. Because if you don’t, your boss will think it’s down to your skills and/or motivation.

                  But if your boss doesn’t communicate that he’s hoping to see X by Y date, you might not get it done because you don’t know that’s what he’s hoping for, and you might choose to prioritize something else. We have a backlog of 200 things to do at any given time, and a lot of autonomy to decide what to work on.

                  So the communication gap is understandable in terms of how it arose; it’s just a massive, massive failure in effective management, given that we do work in an environment like this and have to be able to manage in it!

                3. Theon, Theon, it rhymes with neon*

                  Argh, I spent an hour writing a very long reply to you, Chipmunk, and as soon as I hit “Submit”, I realized I should have backed it up somewhere. It sometimes takes a while for my comments to show up, and there might be a backlog with the open thread activity, but it’s been ~30 minutes and I don’t see it.

                  If it doesn’t show up this evening, I’ll try to make time to reply this weekend, perhaps more briefly.

                4. Theon, Theon, it rhymes with neon*

                  Haha, my long reply showed up just as I finished typing a repeat (I don’t think it was caching, because my second reply showed up instantly, and even incognito mode on different devices wasn’t showing it). Since I wrote a more elaborate response to the “deadlines, assessment, and communication in tech” part in the rewrite, some of this might be worth reading for other ICs and managers in tech:

                  Here’s how deadlines work in my field. There are almost no hard ones. I think I’ve only had a few that ever came with specific dates in my twelve years. There is a huge backlog of work, and your priorities shift constantly (day to day, sometimes hour to hour). Everything takes longer than expected, because you never know how complex a problem is when you start solving it. You only find out along the way. That’s understood. So no one ever tells you “this must be done in two weeks,” or at least very, very rarely. You also have a lot of autonomy as to what projects to work on, and how to implement the solutions. Plus, at least half your projects get abandoned partway through. Even for those that get finished, time-to-completion estimates shift constantly, that’s the nature of the beast.

                  The way you get assessed is that your manager takes a holistic, impressionistic view of “how hard are the problems you’re solving, how important are the problems you’re solving, how good are your solutions, and how fast are your solutions delivered?” and compares the answers to the norm in your field for junior, mid-level, senior, etc.

                  So given all this, I see how the communication problems arose. Here’s how I’m solving them.

                  1) I am selling my boss *and* his struggling reports on the important question being, “What does Boss want, and when will he be surprised if it’s not done yet and he doesn’t know why?” If it’s not done and he knows why, then he’s not surprised, and it doesn’t affect your performance assessment.

                  I’m telling Boss that he needs to volunteer this information up front, as part of project management, and I’m telling the reports that they need to ask, and that they need to keep asking as the project requirements and timeline evolve. It’s not enough just to get on the same page at the beginning of the project! I’ve compared it to defensive driving: yes, if the boss doesn’t communicate the deadline clearly, it’s on him as a manager, but in the end, it’s your career. Just like if you get in a car accident and the other person is at fault, but you’ve still got glass in your face! So don’t be paranoid and constantly watching your back, just like you’re not too paralyzed by fear to drive, but stay alert. Not just when you leave the house (= start the project), but along the road.

                  2. I’m telling the reports that they need to do consciously what I do spontaneously, which is: any time something comes up that’s slowing me down on a project, I tell my bosses what and why and how it’s affecting me, so they know to mentally adjust his expectations. And if my bosses need to, they can tell me to treat something more urgently or less urgently. We rebalance my workload constantly.

                  Most of the time in my career, no one’s ever told me when they want things by, and I’ve never needed them to. I keep my bosses in the loop about what I’m working on, how long it’s taking, and why it’s taking that long, and I let them adjust my priorities as needed. Because I proactively communicate, my bosses always realize that I’m solving difficult problems well, and that I can be relied on to do what they need when they need it. And they realize that if it’s taking that long to solve a problem, it’s because it really did turn out to be that hard, or because I’m that busy juggling multiple problems, or a combination of both. My bosses have always had visibility into my work.

                  And that’s what high performers spontaneously do (what my boss always did as an IC), and why managers evolved to think setting expectations proactively is unnecessary.

                  But then you’ve got quiet, hard-working people who keep their heads down, and in a field where everyone has a ton of different shifting priorities, and most problems turn out to be much harder than expected when you set out, you start out thinking it will take X amount of time to solve a problem, and then you don’t hear from someone until 3 times X has passed and they’re finally done…you have no insight into whether it’s because the person is slow, unmotivated, unfocused, busy, or dealing with a surprisingly hard problem. And when your boss thinks your performance is inconsistent because he thought something would take 1 week and it took 3, you don’t get promoted. When *I* take 3 weeks to do something that we thought would take 1, I make dang sure my boss knows why! This is part of defensive driving along the road.

                  So I’m taking our quiet, hard-working engineers and telling them, “Look, it’s not enough to solve the problem. You have to be in constant communication about what issues you’re encountering, so your boss can communicate revised timelines to other people, so he can readjust your priorities as needed, and so he can assess you fairly and you get credit for the work you’re doing.” 

                  And I’m telling my boss, “Look, you can’t base your assessment of people’s performance on your disappointed expectations when you haven’t communicated those expectations. Maybe these reports aren’t prioritizing project X because they have autonomy to do other work, and they don’t know that you’re expecting X in a certain timeframe. Maybe they think that as long as they’re working on X in parallel with Y and Z, they’re fine. Which is true in a lot of cases! Or maybe they’re running into difficulties with X you don’t know about, because you’re not the one deep in the weeds solving the problem. In the most egregious case that served as the wake-up call this week, one guy wasn’t delivering for a year and half because he didn’t even know X was his job! Stop thinking that your emotions of surprise and disappointment about timelines have solely, or even much, to do with other people’s skill sets and focus. Some of our reports need coaching on communication, and so do you, and then you’ll have the data to assess people’s skills fairly.”

                5. Chipmunk*

                  This is all really interesting! Thank you for the detailed explanations.

                  Another thought for your boss is doing regular status updates. With that many projects up in the air and changing quickly (which also happens a lot in comms) he would benefit from being proactive, especially with projects that are currently high priority.

                  Also, look into the kanban system. We used a physical version on our office wall with post its and a digital version in our project management software. It’s highly flexible, allowing projects to progress and regress as needed. It also lets you identify bottlenecks or overloads at both the process level and at the IC level. We would track canceled projects as well to determine why they were happening and where they were coming from to see if those could be prevented or shut down before a significant amount of time was invested.

                  I’m going to back and reread in more detail!

                6. Theon, Theon, it rhymes with neon*

                  Chipmunk, glad it was helpful!

                  We do do daily status updates, and we use kanban (in Jira), and we keep tickets updated. We’re pretty organized about that. Part of the problem is that in addition to not defining expectations upfront, my boss won’t give anything but positive feedback when he gets a status update, and he doesn’t even know how to ask the right questions. So we’ve got two main scenarios causing problems right now:

                  1. Engineer thinks his job is R&D, and Boss thinks Engineer’s job is R&D plus building the tool. Engineer reports research findings regularly in status updates. Boss tries to encourage him by saying, “That’s great information!” (which it is). Engineer accordingly thinks he’s doing what Boss wants. Boss silently wonders why Engineer isn’t building the tool yet, makes up stories why not (doesn’t have the skill, doesn’t have the focus, etc.), and starts thinking about replacing him with someone who can build the tool. A year and a half goes by because Boss is trying really hard to give the engineer credit for the work he *is* doing and leverage his strengths. But without the communication…balls get dropped.

                  It took me *15 minutes* on Wednesday, once I had picked Boss’s brain about what behaviors he was seeing and what behaviors he wanted, to communicate to Engineer that he was supposed to build the tool and to discover that he hadn’t known that until now. After a year and a half! I get why Alison is always telling people to *use your words*–so am I!

                  2. Engineer is giving regular status updates, but not in enough detail to explain why he’s still working on step 2 of a 5-step project. So Boss knows Engineer is still on step 2, but not why it’s taking so long. Is Engineer on social media most of the day? Is Engineer struggling diligently with step 2 because of a lack of technical skill? Is step 2 much harder than Boss thinks?

                  Boss won’t ask, because he doesn’t know how to ask without it coming across as, “Are you on social media all day or just incompetent?” Engineer doesn’t volunteer more detail, because he thinks he’s doing his job. After all, he’s working the right project, he’s giving status updates so that Boss knows he’s on step 2, and Boss said “Great!” when he heard that. Critically, Engineer, who is not the chatty type, doesn’t proactively volunteer several times per day details like, “Step 2 is immensely difficult because it interfaces with this other system we didn’t know it interfaced with, and I have to make sure that system doesn’t break when I update this one.” Then Boss is left thinking, “Wow, it takes Engineer a long time to do step 2, which seems simple to me (the one not doing it). Maybe he’s not ready for a promotion.”

                  It’s totally understandable that if you’re not chatty by nature (like a lot of engineers!), you give your status updates (how far along is the project), get positive feedback, don’t volunteer details about your experience, and think you’re done. I, who hit character limits on social media all the time, am constantly reporting whenever I run into any new difficulty. I’m like liveblogging my development experience throughout the day. And so if software I’m using for a project turns out not to provide a way to do what I need to do directly, and I’m having to hack together a workaround, my boss knows that’s going to add to the total delivery time, and then when it’s done, he’s impressed at my hacking-software-to-bend-it-to-my-will skills. And so forth.

                  And it’s totally understandable that if you’re a neurodivergent engineer who got promoted into management only because you care *which* projects are being worked on, because you have a sense of what projects have the most business value, and you got no training on asking “Why is this taking 3 times as long as expected?” without sounding accusatory, you might try to make up stories about how it’s taking longer because the person isn’t that experienced yet and you need to be patient (but not promote them). You will be much better at managing people who spontaneously liveblog their experience by reporting every little obstacle throughout the day. Unsurprisingly, the half of us on the team who do that are thriving under this boss much more than the half that don’t. That half are gonna have to be trained to do that (it’s a survival skill under every boss, because of the nature of the work, just more so under this one).

                  The wake-up call has been forcing my boss to realize it’s not that three different people in the last two years have deserved to be fired or at least not promoted, it’s that the common denominator here is communication gaps, and most of the communication burden falls on him. (Though monosyllabic engineer who didn’t get promoted is going to have to learn to be more chatty if he wants more money, it’s the only way a boss can fairly evaluate you. Your boss can’t reproduce your work to discover for himself how difficult each step turned out to be. Unless you give him that detail, all he has to go on his how difficult the two of you thought it was going to be at the outset, which is almost always an underestimate. But again, it is on the *manager* to notice this pattern and tell the engineer “I need more data if you want your skills fairly assessed,” not just assess based on the obviously incomplete data the manager has. But that’s called a management skill, and when you promote an engineer without training, you end up with missing management skills.)

    2. Little Bird*

      Those examples of “beginner conversations” are absurd. It’s wild that it took “people… getting fired, almost fired, and not promoted” for him to realize he needs to fulfill this basic requirement of being in a management position.

      Maybe that’s a bit harsh, but like… he’s not a toddler you’re teaching to tie their shoes, he’s an adult professional who is responsible for the livelihoods of others. He should be able to seek out resources to address this egregious gap in his capabilities without being hand-held by his direct reports.

      1. Theon, Theon, it rhymes with neon*

        I agree 100% that this is a massive management failure. OTOH, I am co-managing this team (because he can’t do it by himself!), and I saw that there was a huge communication gap, and I kept telling him, “Tell people that you’re expecting this to be done in 2 weeks!” and I kept telling the reports, “I’m serious, make *sure* you are on the same page with Boss about what he expects when, and make sure you *stay* on the same page as circumstances evolve,” and yet this kept going on for a year, and it took someone almost getting fired (again) for me to realize I needed to give everyone a wake-up call.

        So I’m trying to treat this as a learning experience for everyone involved, myself included. I have pumped the brakes hard on firing anyone else unjustly (last time was precisely why I got formally promoted, so I have the authority to stop it from happening again; which I did, last month), and am working on solving this problem.

        I see a lot of opportunities here, and I do think it’s solvable, and in a way that makes sense (not spending 40% of your day hand-holding one person indefinitely).

        If it ends up not being solvable in a reasonable manner, I’m pretty good at cutting my losses. But I’ve worked with him for two years, and I’m optimistic.

        (FTR, this is what happens when managers are promoted without training. I may not be the best ever, but I had actual management training from an actual experienced and excellent boss at another company, and it shows.)

    3. Chipmunk*

      Your boss has had some of their staff fired because they couldn’t talk to them appropriately???

      I’m not sure it’s the staff who should have been fired…

      1. Theon, Theon, it rhymes with neon*

        Ha, somewhere in my notes of things I was planning to say if it became necessary (so far it hasn’t been, he’s been willing to acknowledge fault and work toward change) is a comment that it’s not fair that if both parties aren’t doing their jobs*, all the consequences fall on the more vulnerable party and the managers get off scot-free. I didn’t end up needing to saying that, but I did say “ethical qualms” more than once in recent conversations.

        * Yes, there have been various ways in which various reports haven’t done what I would expect of them either, but 80% of the problem is my boss not doing one really key part of his job.

    4. Ashley Armbruster*

      Why are you doing this for him? He’s a grown man in a managerial position. If he’s not going to make an effort to improve his skills as a manager, it ain’t gonna happen. There is only so much managing up you can do.

      1. Theon, Theon, it rhymes with neon*

        But making an effort to improve his skills as a manager is exactly what he’s doing. He had a wake-up call this week, and now he’s asked if I can rec any training videos. I don’t think that’s a horribly unreasonable ask. Also, I am co-managing this team (I’m sort of junior manager; I report to him, but everyone else reports to both of us), so it is sort of my job to keep it functioning smoothly. Furthermore, getting more hands-on involved in these projects he’s been (not) managing that are outside my wheelhouse (which is why I also haven’t been managing them) is the next logical step to a promotion for me.

        FWIW, I make more than he does, and I’m increasingly stepping into his shoes for running our team while he focuses on interfacing with upper-level management and other teams (the part of his job I don’t want at this point and am happy to leave to him).

        I am planning to leverage this into an eventual promotion for myself, and since I’ve gotten him to realize that this communication business is not a nice-to-have but an urgently needed skill, if he actually improves at it…how is that not a win-win?

    5. Purely Allegorical*

      From this description, it actually sounds like your boss needs a full-on course for project and team management, particularly around deadlines. Youtube should have loads of videos around that. I would use the phrase “delivering feedback” or “Delivering difficult feedback” as a search term.

      Also AAM has a number of podcasts too…. I don’t think they’re actively updated anymore, but there should be good content in there.

      It’s really nice that you’re trying to help your boss out with these resources, but as others have pointed out this really shouldn’t be your job. If things have gotten as bad as what you describe, that should be a much larger conversation between your boss and your company.

      1. Theon, Theon, it rhymes with neon*

        Thanks for the suggestions! That’s helpful.

        “It’s really nice that you’re trying to help your boss out with these resources, but as others have pointed out this really shouldn’t be your job.”

        I think the missing piece of the puzzle that I got promoted specifically to help him manage the team and compensate for his missing skills around organization and communication, so it kind of is my job. Yes, ideally he wouldn’t need this coaching and wouldn’t have been promoted without training, but also…I’m getting paid for it. More than he is, in fact. So the fact that I just nudged everyone for a year without going “WHOA WHOA WHOA” until this week, is down to my own inexperience.

        I got promoted specifically when the one person got fired last year, when I went to HR and said “Never again!” And now that he’s started talking about firing and not promoting people again, I’ve intervened to put a stop to it. He has now promised he won’t fire anyone again without me being 100% on board.

        Also, yeah, there is some ideal world in which I trust my company to replace him with someone more experienced, but then there’s the real world, in which the chain of command above him is useless and worse than useless, in which he’s the best boss I’ve had at this company, in which he and I work really well together and he will let me lead as long as I’m emphatic enough, and in which I’m learning a lot from hands-on leadership experience, so…I’m using my promotion to shelter our reports while training him (and them) to get better at communication. And I’m getting paid well for it. And he’s on board with all of that.

        So I’m planning to do it as long as I see him committed to improving and making progress.

    6. But Not the Hippopotamus*

      Not what you asked for, but given the anxiety, I suggest something like a email template or a script for conversations (Alison’s book has some interesting worksheets for management).

      Maybe one for assigning tasks, one for follow up, etc. they could have various parts: what is the assignment, when is it due, etc. But also interim deliverables (to him) to report back challenges, delays, etc. This should be regardless of whether there’s an issue, so even the quieter folks should say something. again, it could be a script or a worksheet they do together, or an email or whatever works for him… but some kind of structure to make sure everyone gets what info they need.

  16. Lady Louise*

    Has anyone been stood up for an interview? I actually was yesterday lol. I waited more than 10 minutes before emailing the recruiter who coordinated it, it was supposed to be with the hiring manager’s boss. Anywhoo, she emailed me apologizing and I sent back some more available times. If I still had a job I would have withdrawn probably, but I’m willing to overlook it for now.

    1. Shopping is my cardio*

      I would give it one more try. In my current job (large defense contractor) when I went in for my interview the hiring manager was actually on her way to her lake house so I interviewed with her boss while she was on the phone with us. Her call kept going on and off because of the area where she was driving. I ended up getting the job and 8 years later I am still here and happy. She turned out to be one of the best bosses I have ever had. Things happen.

    2. Jujyfruits*

      Yes I was. I found someone on LinkedIn and they apologized. Apparently they hired someone for the role and it automatically canceled all scheduled interviews without notifying candidates.

    3. Dragonfly7*

      Yes, interestingly with the independent contractor-ish part of my current workplace. No notice and no response when I reached out.

      I have also been called to do an interview that someone neglected to tell me they scheduled. Since I rarely answer calls from unknown numbers, I didn’t know until I listened to my VM a couple of hours later.

    4. Kettle Belle*

      I was kept waiting for almost 2 hours. when I arrived at the building, the person at the reception desk called the person I was supposed to meet with and he told them I was there and he sent me upstairs. I’m figuring someone will be there to meet me when I got to the floor. Nope. So I sat and waited…and waited…and waited. I saw people I knew who worked at that company and they all asked me who I was there to see and if I wanted them to give the person a nudge. I told them yes, if they didn’t mind. And still I waited. and then FINALLY the admin came out and said the person was still on a call and would be with me shortly. When i did finally get to meet with the person, she offered no apology.

      The things one will endure when desperate for a job.

    5. Picard*

      Well I’m the one hiring but yes, my one o’clock interview just ghosted me/stood me up without a call or email.

    6. Qwerty*

      Multiple times! I generally contact the recruiter after 5min to check that I have the right time and video link and switch my settings to muted/camera off. At the 15min mark I give myself permission to sign off.

      It is generally a scheduling issue – when I check the interview invite, often the interviewer did not accept. One of my favorite jobs involved being stood up during the interview process.

      I only consider it a red flag if I’m being stood up by a 3rd party recruiter, since their job is partly to advocate for me.

    7. Scarlet Ribbons in Her Hair*

      A number of times, when I was working 9:00 AM – 5:00 PM at the time, I would set up interviews at 8:00 AM, only for the interviewer to be a no-show. I would run off to my current job at about 8:45 AM. Inevitably, I would eventually get a phone call in which the interviewer would say that she had been stuck in traffic, and she would tell me that she would call me to reschedule, but those calls never came.

      One time, I had an interview at a magazine that catered to an ethnic group of which I am not a member. Before the actual interview, I had to take a spelling test, a grammar test, a vocabulary test, and a typing test. I was certain that I excelled in all of them. Then the interviewer told me that unfortunately, she couldn’t interview me at that time, because she had a meeting to go to, but she said that she would call me. She never called me. At the time, I wondered if the reason that she didn’t call me was that I was not a member of the ethnic group to which the magazine catered.

      Another time, when I showed up for an interview, I was told that no one was expecting me, and no one was prepared to see me. They did acknowledge that there was an opening for the job for which I was applying, and they finally figured out that the woman who had set up the appointment with me hadn’t bothered to tell anyone else about it. I wasn’t surprised to hear that she wasn’t in that day. As I said, I was told that no one had time to see me that day. Apparently, no one had time to call me afterwards.

  17. Willow Tree*

    I’m anxious about my self-evaluation this year because of medical issues and my horrible boss.

    When my boss went over my self evaluation for my first year, they said, “Didn’t you realize that HR and grandboss would be reading this? Do you even know what the point of writing a self evaluation is? I was shocked at what you wrote.” But they wouldn’t explain what I did wrong, just kept shaking their head and repeating the above.

    For the record, the self-evaluation is a list of competencies that include various skills/behaviors. You rate yourself from 1 to 5, and there’s a comment box at the end. I wrote a few sentences about my strengths and/or weaknesses for each competency and gave myself ratings of either “3 – meets expectations” or “2 – needs improvement.” Which is what I’ve done at past jobs and what my coworkers said to do.

    To complicate things, I’ve been having anxiety/stress related medical issues for most of my time at this job and my performance has suffered. (Or at least my boss frequently berates me. Feels like they gaslight me a lot though.) My grandboss and HR know about the health issues since I started using FMLA recently. My boss has known much longer than them, but didn’t care.

    This year, could I simply write that I did my best despite struggling with medical issues, but realize my performance has suffered, and hope to do better when I get my health is under control? Or should I handle it differently? Should I just give myself all 3 ratings? All 2 ratings?

    I just want to make it as painless and easy as possible since I’m exhausted, but without getting into trouble with HR or my grandboss. (My boss will criticize me no matter what I write.)

    1. EMP*

      I haven’t worked with a boss like yours (who does sound horrible) but the advice I’ve always followed has been “rate yourself one HIGHER than you really think you are” because yes, you should be honest, but you are also somewhat selling your performance for the past year and going “look at me, look what a great cog in the wheel I have been”. If you have had problems, acknowledge them, but emphasize how you have worked around or past them and try to keep a positive spin.
      That said your company sounds toxic and I don’t know if “normal” advice will work, or if anything would be deemed appropriate by them if they will criticize you regardless.

    2. Rick Tq*

      If you aren’t on a PIP now, minimum rating should be 4s across the board, with 5s where appropriate. Your old company had some really bad practices and your coworkers did you no favors. The performance you are measuring yourself against for “4 exceeds” or “5 excels” is the performance of a random coworker, not you on your best days.

      Imposter syndrome screams you can never be a 5, but the scale descriptions so bad as to be deceptive. A 1 is you are headed out the door. 2 is PIP or close to it. 3 is does the bare minimum without being a problem. 4s are for things you do consistently well, and 5s are for categories where you know you do better than the majority of your coworkers.

      1. Willow Tree*

        For my current job, 4 is exceeds expectations and 5 is being so good that you mentor others, which I don’t think I meet. My boss gave me all 3s last year (I was shocked.) So I guess all 3s this year would be safe for my self evaluation?

        1. Rick Tq*

          Start with 4s across the board, with 5s for things you think you do really well.

          Yes, bump every rating you give yourself up one level. We are SO trained to not brag about our performance it is really hard to do it dispassionately. The only entity that can produce Perfect results is your Deity of choice, the best we can do is our best effort each day. Those days are 5s, the rest are 4s..

          I will bet your company ties pay rises to performance scores and they never budget for more than one 5 or more than a few 4s….

        2. GreenShoes*

          Give yourself 3s and highlight the good stuff you did or the metrics you met. Seriously, don’t make this harder on anyone than it should be. If you’re not on a PIP then you are meeting expectations. Don’t write anything negative.

          Even if you didn’t finish project A… say that but follow up with Project A is still in process due to changing business needs or whatever and write what you did do.

          If it’s a metric driven goal that wasn’t met, look for a plausible reason that you didn’t meet it. Ex: if the goal is complete all work in 3 days or less. You can say Completed 95% of work within 3 days despite a 50% increase in volume.

          This is pretty typical for all of the companies I’ve worked for:
          5/5 means you’ve made a significant contribution well outside of your core duties and walk on water. Unless what ever got you here was a fluke, you should have already been promoted

          4/5 means you are doing all of your core duties as well as advanced functions or projects to a high degree of competency/mastery -Employees consistently here are probably ready for advancement or promotion.

          3/5 means you are doing your job well and are a solid performer in your current role. That is the minimum you should rate yourself in a self evaluation. -Most employees fall into this category.

          2/5 means that you are not performing core duties to the minimum standard -In my company this would mean you are already on a PIP or will be placed on one immediately

          1/5 means you are not performing core duties to a significant degree. In other words you are currently failing the terms of a PIP

        3. Rex Libris*

          At the very least, throw in a 4 or two where you think it’s most appropriate. Part of what’s being gauged in self evaluations is whether you have a realistic level of confidence in your competence. It’s as bad to undersell as to oversell.

      2. My Useless 2 Cents*

        Seconding. Always rate yourself higher than you think. You won’t be getting a praised for brutal honesty or modesty.

        My internal measures go something like:
        5 – No one in the office (at my payscale or below) does this better
        4 – I am putting in effort and completing the work to the best of my abilities
        3 – I have back-burnered this to focus on other priorities
        2 – I am actively failing at this particular task and have no desire to improve
        1 – Would never, ever, ever, rate myself this low

        Also, do not grade yourself as if you are 100%. Grade yourself on the here and now. Would you discipline a coworker because their productivity dropped while going thru whatever you are going thru that led to the FMLA? I’m guessing not. You’d treat them with compassion.

    3. Darcy Smith*

      Before downgrading your performance on the self-review (I hate them and also have to do it) take an honest look at the requirements of your job and see at what level you are really performing. we tend to grade ourselves lower than other people would grade us. If you are normally a high performer, but are now an average performer due to issues, make sure you mark the average rating, not a low performing rating.

    4. Tio*

      It would concern me if people were rating themselves at 2, because that means they think they can’t get the job done. Depending on how many 2s you gave yourself, it would be a red flag to me. If you are doing your job appropriately, your lowest rating should be a 3. If there was one area you had a significant problem in, maybe rate that one a 2 and explain what happened and why in the comments along with a plan of how you’re going to do better, but other than that stay away from 2s.

    5. Flowers*

      oh god. Unless you wrote it in “text” speak or used memes/”lol” etc, that’s SO AWFUL of that boss!

    6. Theon, Theon, it rhymes with neon*

      “To complicate things, I’ve been having anxiety/stress related medical issues for most of my time at this job and my performance has suffered. (Or at least my boss frequently berates me. Feels like they gaslight me a lot though.)”

      Uh, I don’t know what your personal life is like, but could your berating and gaslighting boss be a significant contributor *to* your stress-related medical issues?

      1. Willow Tree*

        Yes, the medical problems are from my boss, but I can’t tell people at work that. Everyone else loves them (though no one else has them as a manager). I’ve been job hunting for a long time, which also contributes to the anxiety and stress.

        1. Theon, Theon, it rhymes with neon*

          Oooff, I’m sorry. I hope you find a way out of that situation soon.

    7. DataSci*

      The phrasing of “needs improvement” is unfortunate and potentially confusing for people with a growth mindset mentality that everyone can always improve! Think of it more like “currently unable to adequately perform this part of the job”.

    8. Irish Teacher*

      For the record, the self-evaluation is a list of competencies that include various skills/behaviors. You rate yourself from 1 to 5, and there’s a comment box at the end. I wrote a few sentences about my strengths and/or weaknesses for each competency and gave myself ratings of either “3 – meets expectations” or “2 – needs improvement.” Which is what I’ve done at past jobs and what my coworkers said to do.

      I am guessing that your boss thinks you are under-valuing yourself, probably because of your anxiety. Giving yourself 3s and 2s is pretty low and I would imagine he is saying “you don’t want HR and the grandboss thinking you are underperforming in a number of areas and barely meeting requirements in the rest, especially as most people will take it for granted that people are rounding up about themselves and that if the best somebody can say about themselves is ‘I manage to meet the minimun standards in some parts of my role,’ that doesn’t look great.”

      I have never had performance reviews (well, I technically had one but it was a college student job so it wasn’t a serious thing because they knew I was leaving anyway and we didn’t have self-evaluations even then) so not sure about the rubrics, but I would say that 3s for most things and 4s for the things you feel you do well at sounds reasonble.

      I think more 2s than there are 4s and 5s would look either concerning or like somebody who really undervalues themself.

  18. Bluebonnet*

    Where are good sites to look for well-paying jobs that require at least a bachelor’s degree? I am people oriented, creative, strategic, hardworking and eager to find a rewarding job where I actually grow (as opposed to my current job with limited growth opportunities where management haws pigeonholed me). Also, should I consider additional certifications since as Google’s Project manager certificate, or certification in being a Scrum Master?

    I have an undergraduate degree in journalism and am working towards a master’s in higher education (I have only 2 classes left and will graduate in May 2024). My work background is primarily in managing student workers at an academic library desk, although I would like to switch fields to student affairs or something else that involves communication and working with people.

    I use LinkedIn and Flexjobs, but am not finding anything of interest (it seems like job sites show jobs that are entry level and low paying). Recruiters on LinkedIn do not contact me despite my best efforts translating my experience to useful skills. I have also been searching Chronicle and Indeed as well as local job sites. I have even applied for jobs at my university employer as well as other local higher education institutions to no avail. I was a finalist twice at my university employer but both times it has fallen through.

    It has been a long, discouraging process.

      1. Bluebonnet*

        I haven’t but will take a look.

        One of my issues too is that few higher ed jobs are remote, but I would prefer not to move since I own a home and house prices have gone up (I am fearful about navigating the current housing market). I live in a small city with 2 universities and 2 community colleges in driving distance.

        Sadly, after I get my degree, if I still cannot find a job, I may have to bite the bullet and move.

        1. Unladen European Swallow*

          For higher ed roles that are more student facing, particularly in student affairs, I’ve found few (if any) institutions that have those be completely remote roles. Often, they are hybrid (with about 3 days on-campus) or fully on-campus. At my university, the fully remote roles are ones that are not student facing, such as in IT or in Finance/Accounting. I live in one of the East Coast cities where there are many colleges/universities, and this seems to be the norm across several institutions. Just to be aware.

        1. Bluebonnet*

          I am primarily looking for academic support and/or student services jobs, not teaching jobs.

      3. edjobs*

        Second HigherEd Jobs! Their alerts are how I found my current position.

        Also definitely keep in mind the higher ed hiring is notoriously slow, so if you have apps out there you may still hear back months later.

        1. cardigarden*

          Especially if a holiday falls within the search window. I’ve been on two committees where we had to pause for the week between Christmas and New Years.

        2. Rex Libris*

          Third to HigherEdJobs. And of course bookmark the employment websites for any school near you. Additionally, look for any state level academic organizations that host job boards.

    2. Frankie*

      Being a finalist twice is a good sign! Your application might be more competitive once your MA is actually finished. I have observed that for external hires the degree is an important factor.

    3. Well That's Fantastic*

      Try checking out the websites for colleges/universities in high cost-of-living cities. I work in higher ed and have found that (at least in my niche) the higher the cost of living where a university is, usually the higher likelihood they are willing to have remote or hybrid workers. Browsing the listings might also inspire some new search terms to try.

    4. Tricia*

      Government. So, so many jobs. And most of their jobs are advertised on their job site – not public sites like Indeed.

    5. Frodo Laggins*

      Have you considered searching for edtech jobs? I have a background in journalism/higher ed, and when I decided I wanted to pivot to fully remote jobs, edtech seemed to make the most sense. I searched that on LinkedIn and Indeed and got quite a few bites.

      Wishing you luck!

      1. Mimmy*

        Not the OP but could you please elaborate on “edtech”? I have a masters related to higher education and have been focusing on student-facing roles. However, I am sadly coming to realize that remote or even hybrid positions are hard to come by.

  19. AtticWife*

    I have recently started job hunting., I like my work a lot but in seven years have never received more than a 3% raise and I cannot afford to purchase a home in the area even in a two income household (My partner works remotely so moving is not a concern for them). I am looking at similar jobs. I work in academia in a somewhat niche department. From my search, I can see I am not paid market rate. What is the best way to say to interviewers why I am leaving? I do not make enough money and I do not want to rent at 4o years old seems a little blunt.

    1. Hlao-roo*

      How long have you been at your current job? If you’ve been there 5+ years, no one will bat an eye at “ready to move on and tackle different challenges.” You can also say (if you’re interested in advancement) that there’s no room for advancement at your current job. Interviewers are mostly looking for an absence of red flag answers with that question, so you can answer in a bland way and then tack on “…and I was excited to see [position] posted because [details about job ad/university that make you excited to work there].”

    2. AnotherLibrarian*

      My favorite is, “Reading to take on something new” or you can use that question as a chance to mention what about the job interests you, “I am looking to move into a job which is mor X, because I am particularly interested in expanding my skills in X and Y.” So, you can often answer the question without ever mentioning pay.

    3. Generic Name*

      Something happened at work recently that I’m really angry about. Angry enough to leave over it. I’ve been here well over 5 years, and when companies ask why I’m looking, I just say I’ve worked for company X for a really long time and I’m ready for a change. Nobody has thought twice about that answer.

  20. Weekly commiseration*

    Weekly commiseration: how’s job searching?

    pet peeve: job postings that stay up for weeks and you don’t get removed, so you apply only to find out they shouldn’t have been posted and are filled.

    1. Bluebonnet*

      Yuck, that is a pain! I have several applications pending and 2 interviews this month, but no further progress. This process feels unending!

      I have been trying for over a year to get a new job but can be choosy since my current employer has good benefits (advancement is just next to impossible).

      I am wishing you the best on your job search!

    2. Corrigan*

      It’s….meh

      I interviewed about 2 months ago. I thought it went really well, but I didn’t get a second interview and I got a form rejection letter about a month later. I saw that it was posted again. (Definitely a new posting, but no idea if it’s a new posting of the same position.) I emailed the hiring manager to ask if it was a new position or the same one and if I should apply again or if there was something about my candidacy that concerned her. No response. I applied again anyway, and worst case they tell me no again I guess.

    3. Bunny Girl*

      UGH. It’s so awful. My current pet peeve is people misrepresenting jobs. I’ve had multiple interviews (and a couple offers that I’ve turned down) where the job turns out to be a very entry level clerical/administrative position, when it was presented as something different.

    4. Hotdog not dog*

      I had an interview yesterday that I think went well. First round for an internal position that would be a small step up, so I stand a decent chance.

    5. RagingADHD*

      Back and forth. I got to the final round for a job that I really wanted, where I actually liked the managers and could tell they liked me, and everything. Then they went with someone who had more years with the same job title, which appears to be everyone’s most important priority regardless of other qualifications or experience. So that sucked.

      Then I dropped my salary expectations by $10-15K and started applying for jobs on that level, and I’m getting tons of calls. So I guess that is my sweet spot of demand. Problem is, I can’t live on that.

      Then I talked to a recruiter who said I was way overqualified for the low-paying job I submitted for, and he’d expect to place me for the range I originally was looking for. And he gave me some more insights about how to position my resume, and some skill certifications that would stand out. So that was encouraging.

    6. Random Bystander*

      Slow and depressing. I’ve gotten as far as a video interview (record your answers speaking to the ether) on one application. Usually, I get a generic email, and once an email that the position was no longer available within an hour of my putting in the application (all internal job search opportunities).

    7. Past Lurker*

      Pretty terrible. Lots of ‘we found another candidate that better matches’, forms that require your graduation date for no reason, and forms that require you to upload your resume and then separately enter the same information in different fields of the application. Apologies, I know I’ve ranted about this before! But since you asked :)

      1. Random Bystander*

        Oh, yes … the graduation date. Please let me leave that off because it smacks of excluding people based on age (my graduation was in 1987).

      2. Mimmy*

        Oh god YES about the forms!! Last week, I applied to one job and their resume parsing mucked everything up, including listing one of my internships as being in Australia. For the record, I am in the United States. Also, it put everything in reverse order.

    8. Cj*

      I just started working with a recruiter two weeks ago, and they set up three interviews for me that same week. I’m really excited about one of the companies, and hope I move forward with that.

      although, regarding cover letters, I know this goes against everything discussed on this blog, but when am I applying on my own I don’t send them if they’re not required. I still got quite a few interviews and though I didn’t send a cover letter. it takes so much stress out of the process, because of the job is already filled I don’t really care because it only took me a few seconds to apply.

      I just applied to a five jobs myself in about 5 minutes, because I didn’t include cover letters. I’m curious to see how that goes.

    9. Mimmy*

      It’s going so-so. After a bit of a drought, I found a few jobs to apply for, one of which I have a “pre-screening” interview for this week. Although I think I screwed myself a bit. First, the time they gave me conflicted with work, so I responded with alternate times. Second, when I first saw this listing, it was posted on LinkedIn by a recruiting agency, and it listed the job as “Remote / WFH”. However, I think this agency just scours job boards and reposts them because EVERY ONE of their listings is “Remote / WFH”. This university is out of state and not in a state we want to move to.

  21. Flowers*

    It’s  self-eval time. I’ve been taking notes for months – pretty much since I started – so I have A LOT of thoughts that I’m finally able to organize and drill down and reframe in a professional context.

    The big thing I want to bring up is that I’ve constantly felt excluded or like an afterthought. Ive seen the culture and I like it a lot but I just wish I was more a part of it. Some of the examples I have are legitimate, some are not for lack of a better word and the remaining are somewhere in between. I am self aware enough to recognize that the “non-legitimate” feelings stem from deeper issues (I do NOT mention this at work).

    For all my insecurities, self esteem/confidence issues, social anxiety and awkwardness, I find that I thrive on building relationships and collaboration and I’m slowly coming around to accepting that its’ OK to be like that. At work this translates to wanting the engagement, the interactions etc. When I see that specific people are constantly talking to everyone but ignore me, or are visibly impatient when I’m saying something even though I asked beforehand if it was a good time to talk (I’m not this long winded IRL), or the peer group I sit with doesn’t consider me part of their group ever or if someone who used to be friendly is suddenly not and its nto a one-off, those things all make me feel like crap at work.

    So my questions –

    Does it reflect badly on me if the majority of my answers are “Needs improvement” if I think it’s true? To me the worst thing in an evaluation is thinking I’m “good” or “excellent” but the manager thinks otherwise. Is this a standard professional way to think or is it my warped thinking at play?

    Re: the building relationships. There are certain examples that when I say them, I choke up and cry. I hate crying work esp in front of men (idk). I’ve tried saying certain things out loud to practice but I always end up bawling for some reason I can’t explain. I plan to address the crying with my therapist on our upcoming meeting but for the sake of the work meeting – should I just say “hey I will cry.” Im stuck on how to end that sentence.

    Just thought about this while reading this morning’s questions – would it make sense to ask what it was that made them hire me? There was a lot of confusion about my position early on (hired for one, doing another), and my interview was about 30 minutes long with an offer almost right on the spot; whereas others had interviews with multiple partners over the course of several days.

    Am I putting way too much on this one meeting? I do have quick 1 on 1s with my boss regularly but I feel like this is really the only opportunity I will ever have to really sit down express things I’ve seen and felt over the past year….

    1. ThatGirl*

      Yes, it would reflect badly on you if you said you needed improvement on nearly all parts of your job. It’s normal to have things you want to improve on, but are you really that bad at your day to day job? I doubt it.

      Think about your manager for a second – do you think they are the type to surprise you with an evaluation? Good managers give feedback regularly, and would tell you if you really needed to, say, improve your grammar or meet deadlines better or whatever. If you don’t think they’re so petty as to spring a last-minute “you suck” on you, I would guess you’re very much in the Meets Expectations realm.

      1. Flowers*

        That’s a good point; I don’t anticipate surprises.
        I did request a mini-feedback meeting last week where he did give me some good feedback. I requested it last week because I thought evals would be in July/August; had I known it was going to be now I would not have requested one.

    2. Prospect Gone Bad*

      I would put many as “Satisfactory” and then hopefully there is a box where you can add feedback for management. It doesn’t sound like you’re bad enough to warrant “need improvement.” I mean, everyone technically needs some sort of improvement.

      As a Director, I want to say that I’ve received the “want to be kept in the loop” thing a few times and the result has been two-fold. One, the person eventually starts complaining all of the meetings are a waste of time, or they stop reading all of the emails. So I would be specific about what I want to happen there.

      1. Flowers*

        Each section has a comment box, and the instructions say that “Needs improvement” or “Outstanding” require comments. but I plan to leave comments on a few questions.

    3. Brownie*

      “To me the worst thing in an evaluation is thinking I’m ‘good’ or ‘excellent’”

      That’s a lot to unpack regarding toxic workplaces, self-esteem/confidence issues, and more, so I won’t go into that side of things. From the workplace side I don’t think it’s a good thing to ever self-evaluate as anything less than “good” rating overall because it self-sabotages your whole review. If I see someone I think is doing “exceeds expectations” work rate themselves as “needs improvement” I will always start wondering what the employee sees/is struggling with that I don’t know about and adjust the rating downwards based on that. From a purely strategic side always rate yourself as “good” or better to avoid that kind of downgrade from a manager.

      1. Flowers*

        I touched on this below, but this is the exact opposite of what I’ve always been taught. So I’m glad I asked here as I’ve never even considered this POV. 

      2. Irish Teacher*

        I’d be careful about adjusting downwards based on self-evaluations as a lot of people are not good at self-evaluation and the criteria sound kinda vague. What one person might think “exceeds expectations” another might think barely meets.

        And of course, there are all kinds of reasons why different people might rate differently. Cultural differences are one. Some cultures value confidence and would be likely to round up when judging themselves whereas others value modesty and would be likely to round down. There are studies that indicate men are more likely than women to rate themselves higher. People with anxiety issues or how have been abused might be likely to underrate themselves.

        And adjusting downwards for those reasons could be inaccurate and problematic.

        I agree with you that it is better to avoid 2s because they could start a manager thinking that way subconsciously, but I also think managers need to be aware of trying to avoid such thinking and…maybe doing their own ratings before they’ve read the self-evaluation to avoid letting it influence them?

    4. Alex*

      Yes, i think you are putting way too much on this one meeting. Your performance evaluation shouldn’t be a time to “really sit down and express things you’ve seen and felt over the past year.” It should be about your work over the past year and your future goals.

      I’d sit down and make a list of the things you think you’ve done well over the past year. Then pick one or two items to say you would like to improve or learn. Then put those into paragraph form. That’s it. Don’t make this about your feeling excluded or how you think you are viewed by other people. Those are things for your therapist, or, if there is a real problem that you think your manager could help with, that is something you could bring up separately with them. I wouldn’t do it at your performance review. Performance reviews aren’t cathartic healing experiences–they are evaluations of your work and a chance for you to make sure you and your boss are on the same page about the quality of your work and where you would like to take it in the future.

      1. Flowers*

        Performance reviews aren’t cathartic healing experiences–they are evaluations of your work and a chance for you to make sure you and your boss are on the same page about the quality of your work and where you would like to take it in the future.

        Um, I wasn’t planning for it to be a cathartic healing experience? I am very well aware that my bosses are not my therapists. I did already include certain work things on my eval that I did not mention here. But culture is also a huge part of any work environment, and it’s valid to ask how bringing it up is appropriate during an evaluation.

        1. WantonSeedStitch*

          It does sound like you’re putting a lot of thought into the emotional issues here, though. I would think that the best way to bring the cultural stuff up is to try to deal with it in as calm a way as possible. I’m not saying talk like a robot, but a lot of what you say above, if you say it in a similar way to your boss, is going to come across as “no one likes me or wants to be friends with me,” and your boss is going to feel helpless to fix that–because they are. Your boss can’t change things like whether people include you at lunch or whether someone is friendly towards you. Social issues between coworkers aren’t the boss’s job to step in and moderate. But if there are issues where people are, for example, refusing to allow you access to meetings where you ought to be included for work reasons, or where someone is not answering your work-related e-mails, or is failing to give you information you need, that’s stuff your manager can (and should) address. Keep it work-focused, rather than emotionally-focused. That’s where your manager has the standing to do something.

          Also, you can talk about your desires to build relationships in a positive, work-focused way. Tell your boss you’d love opportunities for more collaborative work, more cross-team involvement, etc.

          As far as crying goes: don’t mention it unless it happens. If it does happen, try to address it as calmly as you can. “Please excuse the crying–I’m afraid it’s just how I sometimes am in meetings like this one, but I’m OK!” But if you’re not actually OK, it’s fine to say, “I’m sorry, I seem to be getting kind of emotional. Would it be OK for me to take five minutes to refresh myself?” and then go to the bathroom or go outside for a few minutes to do some belly-breathing.

          Don’t ask what made them hire you. If it’s a well-done review, they should be giving you specific feedback on what you’re doing well. If they don’t, ask for some. “Can you give me some examples of things you’ve been happy with in my work? I want to make sure I continue to do those things and maybe build on them.”

          Be honest about yourself. If you have regular 1:1s with your boss, hopefully they’ve let you know how your work is going so far. Take them at their word about what’s been good and what’s been more of a challenge. If they seem overall satisfied with your work, most of your self-ratings should be along the lines of “satisfactory.”

    5. EMP*

      An annual review is a time to reflect on your performance but the advice I follow is it’s also a time to re-sell yourself for your job. Everyone can improve, but that’s not what the rating “needs improvement” is really for. “Needs improvement” is like “should be on a PIP” – you aren’t performing the minimum functions of your job to a reasonable standard. Most people should be “meets expectations” and if there’s some areas where you think you perform well (doesn’t have to be perfect! just pretty darn good!) throw in an “exceeds” or two.

      I would also try to keep your feedback focused on yourself and what you want and can do. What I mean by this is, *you* want to connect more with your team. *You* want to improve collaboration. Don’t focus on what your team is doing wrong (“Reginald and Fergus exclude me”) for this review because that shouldn’t be the focus.

      AAM has some previous articles about crying in work/during feedback that you might want to read and see if any apply to you

      1. Flowers*

        That’s really helpful way to frame it! Yes I don’t like to say “xyz did this and that” but I just wasn’t sure how to phrase it. 

    6. Jess R.*

      Something I’m picking up — that I also feel — is that you might be conflating “needs improvement” with “could improve.” When you’re conscientious about your work, you’re often aware of possible improvements. I know I could reply to client emails a little faster, for example, or be more willing to make phone calls instead of sending emails. But that is different from “NEEDS improvement.” In a self-eval (although we don’t have those at my current job), I suspect I’d put most of my skills at a 4 or 5 out of 5, which isn’t to say that there’s no room for improvement, but rather that I am doing the job well enough and getting good enough results.

      1. NeedRain47*

        This, the most! I’m a person who always looks for ways to improve things. But when I do my self evaluation I’m comparing myself to the employer’s expectations (look at your job description), not to my own. You don’t have to be doing the BEST JOB EVER, you just need to be doing a *satisfactory* job.

      2. My Useless 2 Cents*

        Agree. (I responded to Willow Tree in a similar question above thread but) always rate yourself higher than you believe. You are not going to get kudos for brutal honesty or for extra modesty. A 2 out of 5 is basically telling your manager you can’t do the job.

    7. cardigarden*

      So, it sounds like the building relationships aspect you discuss is a separate concern from the content of the actual work you’re assigned to do but you’re conflating the two in your self-eval.

      The first thing you should think about is the 1:1 meetings you have with your boss. It sounds like you have them regularly, and if your boss is good at what he does, he should have been checking in with you regarding your work quality from the beginning. In an ideal world, the review meeting is a rubber-stamp because there’s been steady dialogue throughout the whole year. Your work product, specifically, is what you should be limiting your eval to, and from what you’ve shared, it sounds like you’re probably meeting expectations.

      Regarding the feelings of exclusion from your peers: you could use this conversation for a vibe check. When I have review meetings with my reports, I always reserve time for a temperature check re how they’re feeling about their job, workload, and interpersonal interactions. If your boss is good, you could ask him for guidance on how to navigate some of those interactions where you’re getting a “vibe’s off” feeling.

      Something I’ve had to work on for myself is that I am very perceptive to microexpressions, up to and including assuming feelings that aren’t actually there, which is sometimes frustrating for my partner who has a natural resting serious face. I’m often asking him if he has a problem with something I’ve said has bothered him and the answer is always no. Idk if that’s part of what’s going on with you, but it might be something to explore with your therapist.

      TLDR: Do not rate yourself as needs improvement. For my company, that automatically flags an HR review which usually results in a PIP, which you probably don’t want.

      1. Flowers*

        Yes that is true. He has been clear with feedback from the beginning and where my weaknesses are.
        Regarding the feelings of exclusion from your peers: you could use this conversation for a vibe check. When I have review meetings with my reports, I always reserve time for a temperature check re how they’re feeling about their job, workload, and interpersonal interactions. If your boss is good, you could ask him for guidance on how to navigate some of those interactions where you’re getting a “vibe’s off” feeling.Something I’ve had to work on for myself is that I am very perceptive to microexpressions, up to and including assuming feelings that aren’t actually there, which is sometimes frustrating for my partner who has a natural resting serious face. I’m often asking him if he has a problem with something I’ve said has bothered him and the answer is always no. Idk if that’s part of what’s going on with you, but it might be something to explore with your therapist.

        I like framing it as a vibe check. The interpersonal interactions are what I’m focusing on for this question, since the workload and job itself are pretty clear (and thus not included in this post).

    8. Rick Tq*

      Imposter syndrome screams you can never be a 5, but the scale descriptions so bad as to be deceptive, and honestly rating yourself is ‘bragging’ so there is a lot of pressure to downgrade your self-assessment.

      My take on the rating levels in the real world:
      1’s are you headed out the door.
      2 is you are already on a PIP or close to it. (NEEDS improvement, not can improve)
      3 is does the bare minimum without being a problem.
      4s are for things you do consistently well,
      5s are for categories where you know you do better than the majority of your coworkers.

      IMO your reference for measurement is a random person doing your job, not you on your best days.

      There is no shame in your manager marking you down from 4s, you may be surprised when they lift your 2’s to 3’s or better.

    9. Actuarial Octagon*

      In my experience very few people rate themselves as needing improvement in evaluations, especially for a “majority” of categories. Are you getting regular feedback from your boss? Can you attempt to tie your ratings to the feedback you’ve received?

      Also, on feeling excluded, is that from work conversations or more day to day chat? If you are not getting the information you need to complete your work then you should absolutely ask your boss for help trying to get that resolved. Something like “I find that I don’t always receive updates on project A as they happen, what can I do to ensure those don’t get missed?” But if you feel excluded from more idle chat I think bringing it up to your boss during an annual review will distract from what is important. And ultimately there isn’t much they can do to help.

    10. NaoNao*

      To address one small part of this, I’d end the “I will cry” part with “…and I’m okay, it’s completely physiological and not to worry!”

      But the rest–I hope this doesn’t come off as harsh (because I can *really* relate to a lot of this) but there’s a…fragility and almost neediness that comes through here in the writing, and it could be “a lot” for coworkers and peers, even if you’re doing everything by the book and technically correct.

      It’s not just being long winded that can have people fidgeting–it could be a number of things but it seems like there’s a level of rawness and openness or emotions that are just a bit too high for the workplace and that’s what people might be reacting to. Like asking the powers that be “why did you hire me” is asking (in so many words) for a level of reassurance and emotional labor that’s a bit out of line I’d say. It’s going to come off *really* needy.

      It sounds like maybe the job and culture isn’t the right match–I know that in certain cultures I’m the fish out of water and it’s miserable. I would describe those cultures as Type A, Gordon Gekko, wake up and 5 and punch the alarm clock in the face, skip meals, work late, Mean Girls and Bullies grown up, ultra high energy work hard play hard cultures. That’s…not for me.

      I would not take the time to pour your heart out, I would instead think of what you DO want. A “FeelingsDumpTM” (h/t Captain Awkward) won’t get the results you want. So what do you want and need in terms of work support they can reasonably give you? I’d focus on that angle.

      1. Flowers*

        not harsh but I don’t think it’s true. I avoid being too open with any personal things and I’m conscious of emotional labor, and I definitely don’t expect that from anyone at work. I’m not going into long monologues or making speeches to anyone. Why I would ask “why did you hire me” – there was some confusion about my position that I don’t want to get into too much detail to. I probably worded it wrong. 

        Now if it’s an unspoken vibes/RBF thing, I can’t change my face, but I suppose I can change my inner thoughts to change the vibes. And yes, I am in therapy and yes I have in the past and will be discussing this and other things with my therapist when I meet with them soon. 

    11. T. Wanderer*

      ThatGirl and Brownie both gave really good breakdowns of this, imho.

      I also really hate the idea of marking myself higher than my boss does, but the way my manager described it to me is: if you “need improvement” on something, you should KNOW it — specifically, your manager should have told you and it will be an ongoing discussion. If they haven’t talked to you about it, you’re doing fine. If they’ve complimented you, you exceed expectations!

    12. Kate B.*

      On “needs improvement,” “good,” and “excellent”–my take is that in a healthy workplace, these reflect how you are doing now, based on the amount of experience, training, support, and work you’ve received. You’re not evaluating whether you’re as good at your job as someone who’s been in your position for 40 years and is at the top of their game. Of course you will improve as you get to know your work better. But “good” is more like “meets expectations” to me.

      I understand that it’s psychologically nicer to say “eh, I think I need improvement” and hear “actually, you’re doing excellent!” than to say “I think I’m excellent” and hear “ehhhhhhh” in response–but I would move away from that impulse. If you think you understand what you’re supposed to be doing and you’re doing it, you’re “good.”

      If you’re being asked to evaluate things like attendance, if you show up when you’re supposed to or communicate in advance otherwise, you’re at least “good.”

      On crying, I think “hey I will cry” is not bad! I’d just follow up with what you want the other person to do. Should they keep talking until you signal that you’re ready and able to speak? Do you want them to leave an “awkward” silence for you to catch your breath? Do you anticipate needing to step out of the room for a minute to get a drink of water, but then you will come back to finish the conversation?

      1. Flowers*

        That’s really helpful advice about the crying, and YES to the psychological aspect of it!

    13. Flowers*

      Thanks everyone. So there’s a general consensus here about the “NI” rating that never occurred to me, so I am VERY glad I asked this!

    14. Tio*

      Putting Needs Improvement on multiple answers would be a huge red flag for e. The middle rating, usually a 3, means you complete your job without issues. Anything below that, means you run into issues doing your job. Multiple 2s/Needs improvement mean that you basically cannot do your job well enough, and would be incredibly alarming to see as a manager. Not going to lie, this may sound harsh, but if you came in marking a bunch of twos, and then cried about people not liking you, we would be in defcon-4 “this is a serious problem” mode, and I wouldn’t think the problem is everyone else.

      Maybe you could ask him for feedback on how he perceives your relationships with others and how to improve them as part of the 1:1 without going into these specific feelings of being snubbed or ignored yet. List out your specific examples on paper, and have a friend or therapist look at them and see if they sound like actionable items for the workplace. Then, maybe in another 1:1 later, bring these items up and ask for his opinion on them. Since you admit some of the problems are not actually external problems, I worry that there may be a bit of making some of the actual items into larger events than they may have been seen by others.

      I do wish the best for you! I think you’re probably doing a lot better than you think and you’re going to be fine. Good luck!

      1. Flowers*

        Since you admit some of the problems are not actually external problems, I worry that there may be a bit of making some of the actual items into larger events than they may have been seen by others.

        Ok that makes sense to do. and yes you’re exactly right – that some of them were larger than they really are. Hence why I’ve never actually brought them up. The only way I ever truly know is with time and hindsight….

    15. GreenShoes*

      I don’t want to spam the comments with the same answer… so search my username to see what I said on the question upthread about on the same topic.

      Short answer:
      You are WAYYYY over thinking this. Don’t give yourself anything less than a “Meets Expectations” or equivalent. Don’t beat yourself up in a self appraisal. If you think there are things you want to work on, leave it out of your PA and just have conversations with your manager.

    16. Rex Libris*

      My two cents, for what it’s worth… Your self evaluation, in my experience anyway, isn’t the place to express all the feels and do in-depth soul searching. It’s a (mostly useless, IMHO) exercise intended to see if your assessment of your job performance is reasonably in line with your supervisor’s, so there can be a discussion if it isn’t.

      Assume your own competence as a baseline, acknowledge your understanding of and progress on any performance deficiencies you’ve been made aware of, and point out every place where your performance has been noteworthy. Save “needs improvement” mostly for things you’ve been told need improvement, and where you don’t have any examples of having made progress.

      The other stuff would be better left for a different meeting centered around fitting more fully into the work culture there. I find it helps stem off the emotion to present it in the most professional terms you can. You don’t have to give teary examples, you can phrase things like “I sometimes feel that I have difficulty connecting with certain coworkers” or “I admire the work culture here, and would value your advice on more fully integrating with the team.”

      Don’t ask what made them hire you… it sounds too much like you think they made a bad decision, which may read as a red flag to your boss, and it’s really just coming from your own discouragement and anxiety.

      Good luck!

    17. Joielle*

      I agree with everyone else that you shouldn’t give yourself less than a 3 unless you’ve been seriously and recently reprimanded for something. Don’t undersell yourself.

      On the relationship building and culture stuff – I’ll be honest, to me, this sounds like a lot for a performance eval conversation. At most, I think you could say “I sometimes don’t feel like part of the group and I wonder if you’ve noticed anything I could change to help me fit in socially.” Personally, I would not get into descriptions of people who you sit with at lunch or who seems friendly or unfriendly or impatient at different times – especially if describing those examples is likely to make you cry. I feel like a performance review is a time when you want to present yourself in the best light, and you don’t want to give your boss a reason to think “jeez, Flowers needs a lot of hand holding” while they’re deciding how to evaluate you for the year.

    18. Flowers*

      Thanks everyone for the feedback! So glad I asked here because I definitely learned something new! I re-did my evaluation before submitting it, and I don’t’ think I put as many NI as I initially thought (I’ve done maybe 3 drafts prior to writing here lol). 

      Also I want to address this too – I’m not expecting my bosses or coworkers to perform ANY emotional labor or provide this meeting as a “healing experience.” YES I am an emotional person but I am also actively in therapy addressing my issues. It is a slow process. I do not “trauma-dump”. I am aware of the limitations of friendly work relationships – I’m not looking for “besties” and I always take other ppls cues and meet ppl where they are. But if I perceive that I am being treated differently, that is something that I will feel and question if I should bring it up…hence asking the question here first. I spent 5 years in a toxic environment, then I was home for 2 years. When I first started this job, I felt that my norms may had been skewered so I tend to err on the side of caution. 

      1. Redaktorin*

        I understand that your self-concept is someone who is aware of emotional labor, never dumps their feelings on others, and is aware of the difference between friendly and work interactions. But what you wrote here looks like the opposite of that, and enough people are saying so that you may need to re-evaluate whether your self-concept is truly accurate in this situation.

        I do think you’ll be fine if you *don’t mention the stuff that is making you cry*. That reaction is your body telling you to stop. Your boss is not a safe audience for emotionally fraught discussions of who you think looks annoyed when you talk.

        That said, I hope things get easier for you. Something that has helped me a lot when dealing with similar thoughts is that literally nobody is going to think about me as much as I think about me. Your coworkers may not actually be annoyed, or maybe they’re annoyed but won’t remember it in three minutes, or they’re annoyed because they’ve been fighting with their significant others and it has nothing to do with you, etc. Maybe they’re sitting together because they’re used to it and would be thrilled to have you there as well. Or maybe they’re toxic rude jerks, which is still not really about you.

    19. GingerNP*

      Re: crying – in my recent yearly review, the first thing I said to my manager was “just so you know, I end up crying in this office pretty regularly” (which is true, like every six months over the past 15 years, with all three of my managers) “and it’s not you, I promise.” But to be fair, I don’t know how to be somebody I’m not and I don’t know how to not have my feelings, at least when I have space to do so. I work in the ER so I stuff down EVERYTHING until i’m not in front of patients and it comes out when i’m in my boss’s office with the door shut.

  22. Aarti*

    3 people just quit in my office and 1 got fired and 2 are in a transition plan to get out in a few months.
    Whew. It’s been a rollercoaster.

      1. Momma Bear*

        Wow. Maybe take a good lunch to regroup. I’d want to touch base with my boss to find out the plan for myself.

    2. Mimmy*

      We’ve been bleeding staff at my job too. Several have left over the last year, one of them just returned from medical leave, and another just started medical leave, their second in a year. I’m looking to leave myself. We’re barely getting by with a mix of FT and PT staff.

  23. Shopping is my cardio*

    I have been asked to snitch on a coworker.
    Quick background info: I work in a group of about about 20 people, most of us do the same type of work. My workload is too large for 1 person so I always work with a partner, it has worked great for years. In the last 2 months I was told that I would get a new partner (not great since it involves lots of training, but whatever fine I have done it before). The only difference this time is that I was paired up with someone that is being monitored by our ethics department. There havw been problems in the past with this person abusing our OT, not doing the work, lying in timecards.. etc.. the list goes on and on. I am supposed to track what he does and what he doesn’t, when he does it etc. So far my fears have proved to be true since I haven’t seen any actual work for the 3 weeks we have been working together. I am keeping a running list of this. In the meantime they have asked a different coworker to help me with my workload since the first one is MIA most of the time. How long do I allow this to go on before I raise my hand? I feel like I need to establish a deadline with my boss of how long I will continue this farce. Does anyone have thoughts on how to handle this?

    1. ScruffyInternHerder*

      Question, filed under “Got the Tee Shirt”:

      Have they told you that you’re part of the ethics department monitoring? Or does it just seem like it?

      In a similar situation, I called my boss and asked for clarity, because if I was “being asked to make sure that the partner sucked, it would just be a lot faster for me to tell you what you want to hear and I’ll just make it brief.” Turns out, they honestly thought it was a solid move and that she was trainable. Great. Give me tools and leeway to do so, but you need to have a “Big Kid Now” conversation with her and HR first, I’ll come in late. They did. It worked amazingly well.

      Verify your role, find out what they’re expecting for a timeline. That’s my suggestion.

      1. Shopping is my cardio*

        He is not trainable, at this point they are at the documenting point of the whole firing process. HR is involved and I guess my role is to keep a log so they have backup (there are other things besides what I can see). I will ask for a timeline, thank you!

    2. Charlotte Lucas*

      Definitely ask your boss. Can you send weekly reports in the meantime? They might have a target number of infractions they’re looking for.

      And I would reframe this in my head from “snitching” to “documenting.”

      1. Shopping is my cardio*

        Thank you Charlotte, yes it is definitely documenting and I am doing it – it just feels like snitching and also something I don’t want to keep doing forever until they get their ducks in a row. Thank you for your answer!

        1. Dust Bunny*

          I don’t like the way your bosses are doing it, necessarily, but I don’t know why you’d have doubts about turning in someone who is likely standing in the way of getting the job done and of you getting real help (because they are using money getting paid to do nothing, and creating the appearance that you have more help than you do). Just tell your boss what you’ve seen so far and ask for–insist on–a deadline beyond which they feel they have enough information so you don’t get stuck doing this indefinitely because they’re too chicken to to act on it.

          2. Charlotte Lucas*

            This! I’ve been in the situation where I wished management would ask for documentation.

        2. Rick Tq*

          Your missing Fergus is functionally stealing from the company by being paid without performing any work. You aren’t ‘snitching’, you are helping document his behavior.

          This isn’t “Teacher, teacher! Jimmy is picking his nose again!!” You are asked to be witness to his behavior that management already knows about but needs more documentation before they terminate him.

    3. Bagpuss*

      Who asked you to track what he does. Can you not speak to that person, and summarize how it;s going, and ask them (i) what specifically they need from you and (ii) how long this is likely to continue for.

      Also – if you hadn’t been asked to track them but they were just a normal partner, what would you do in this situation, if they weren’t working? Presumably you’d raise it with your line manager / their line manager? Can you do that?

      1. Shopping is my cardio*

        I was asked by my boss who is also his boss. Yes of course I can speak to him (boss) but I wanted to hear what other people think or if someone has been in this situation. Thank you!

    4. Momma Bear*

      Go back to the boss and ask about the timeline. I once tracked a coworker’s impact on my work and partially it was just cc’ing the boss when following up with the Coworker. I increased my CYA and reminder emails to this person vs having calls or office chats about problems. Or directly noted it to the boss. “Hey, Boss. I know you wanted the Teapot Delivery Report but Coworker has not provided me an updated quantity. Please see my email to Coworker yesterday, which was a follow up from Monday. How would you like me to proceed?”

  24. Moomin the Great*

    If you had the chance to interview the person who was going to be your boss, what would you ask them? My team is doing a panel interview on Monday for our potential new manager and I want to weed out toxic micromanagers and find someone to help support us and keep our amazing team vibe.

    1. ThatGirl*

      Ask about how often they like to give their team feedback, what kind of team meeting structure they prefer, how hands-on they see themselves – that kind of thing?

    2. Bluebonnet*

      I would want to know their communication style and preferences, and how they handle challenges and conflicts (both from above and below).

    3. HCTZ*

      I’d wanna find out what do they consider are the most important qualities in a direct report? Think that’ll give some insight into what they consider important (besides business needs obviously) and how they might manage. Do they ONLY care about you meeting deadlines? Or do they care that you’re building relationships with others? And so on.

    4. Elle*

      Ask for specific examples of them looking out for the well-being of their staff. How supportive are they?

    5. T. Wanderer*

      Everyone hates “tell me about a time when…” questions, but I’d ask for an example of how they handled a low-performing report in the past. That might tell you how they support people, if the answer is “train” or “fire” and how successful it was, and whether they talk compassionately about even their annoying reports ;)

      1. Irish Teacher*

        I like those questions. It’s way easier (for me) to recount what happened in a scenario than to answer “what would you do if…?” that often has so many variables that it’s difficult to say hypothetically.

    6. Emma2*

      I might ask what they find to be the most challenging people to work with, and what an ideal employee looks like to them (or what qualities an employee needs to succeed in their team).

    7. spiriferida*

      Definitely keeping an eye on this thread, considering my own situation at work right now!

      Personally I’d ask the obvious question – what do they think is the most important part of their role as a manager? And I might also ask what are the kinds of problems they expect their reports to bring to them in this role, and how they might help them solve those problems.

    8. Tiger Team Apollo 13*

      Heading into that very soon. Our boss left at the end of March and won’t be replaced until July/August. We used to have an amazing team but those co-workers are leaving today and on Tuesday, leaving me and a very good coworker to re-assemble the squad.

      I don’t think you can really weed out a lot of personality traits because we’re on our best behaviors during an interview. Perhaps frame up a real scenario you’ve had with your previous boss, or co-worker, and ask them how they’d handle that situation.

      We’re headhunting for the new boss, then our CEO and COO will interview first and the two of us will get to panel the candidate(s). We’ll work together to assemble questions.

      It’s hard with only two of us to say ‘this is our culture and vibe’, but since we’re similar in our work process and ethics, we hope to find that person for us and then that new boss will re-hire for the two other positions and hopefully with the same ideals in mind.

    9. Sparkle Llama*

      I would ask for examples of advocating for their team to higher ups in the past (or to other departments).

      Also, how they approach change. What they do if they identify a potential opportunity to change process or policy.

    10. Higher Ed Kitten Party*

      I would want to know when the last time they changed their mind on something was. Especially something they received feedback on from their team.

    11. Lasuna*

      I would ask them to tell me about a mistake they made as a manager they changed their management style, what they learned from it, and how it changed the way they managed going forward. If the person is a great interviewer, the answer may be worthless, but it’s amazing how many people will answer that kind of question with unflattering honesty. You may get a answers like “I was hands off with a low performing direct report, resulting in XYZ problems, so now I (describes micromanaging).” A huge red flag is if they can’t admit to having made a mistake.

  25. Sauce on the side*

    How do you deal with a very dysfunctional work environment?

    I have been in my role for 2 years. I wanted to leave after my first week in the job. There are several reasons why this place is bad but at a high-level:

    Very hands off/stick their head in the sand management who refuses to deal with issues

    Yelling/screaming/disrespecting/insulting/accusing each other on a daily basis.

    Very lean staffing, with almost a zero chance of meeting and achieving goals. When folks leave due to health issues/burnout/new job, etc, positions are never filled. My personal team has had nearly 100% turnover in 1 year.

    High turnover – im currently on my 5th manager

    Yes, I am job hunting and have been for the last several months. Im just trying to maintain my sanity until I can find something else.

    1. Shopping is my cardio*

      Having been in your shoes many many moons ago all I can say is just to stop caring. I know it is easier said than done but you need to just mentally disengage so you can retain some of your sanity. I used to work in a place like this where the stress would sometimes wake me up at 3 am worrying about the day that was coming for me. I wish I had had the mental strength at that point to not care anymore. When you work in such a toxic place the only way to keep your sanity is to let it roll off your back and keep searching for a better job.

    2. Hlao-roo*

      There are some tips in the post “how can I brace myself for my toxic new job?” from September 17, 2018 that are probably applicable to your situation. I’ll link in a follow-up comment. Best of luck with your job search!

    3. Rick Tq*

      Work a full day, get done what you can, but Down Tools at the end of the day and go home.

      No ‘Above and Beyond’ performance, no nights or weekends either.

      Your company hasn’t felt the pain yet so they have no incentive to change behaviors or hire more staff..

      1. Sauce on the side*

        That is a really good point. I have been doing this for a few months and it is strangely freeing.

      2. kiki*

        Picking up extra work to make things better is preventing your leadership from learning an important business lesson. Don’t go above and beyond and feel satisfied that you are helping them grow as business leaders.

    4. RagingADHD*

      While job hunting, I keep my head down, keep my mouth shut, and get my work done with as little personal or emotional investment, and as little “making waves” as possible. Just Gray Rock the whole place, all day, and inside my gray rock I’m in my happy place.

      Godspeed on the job search.

    5. Bess*

      Help maintain your sense of personal control by reminding yourself you are choosing to stay there because you need to get paid. It’s easy to get into a trapped mentality in environments like that, and that can feel disempowering. As long as it is better than quitting without anything lined up, it’s working for you by keeping you employed.

      And yeah, stop caring to the extent you can.

  26. Alexander Blodgett*

    Not really a question, more of vent. The job I’m at now isn’t terrible, but not great, and I’ve been applying to other roles. I had an interview with a hiring manager for a role that would likely be a major step up, it went reasonably well…and the company ghosted me (and the recruiter) I was working with. It would be fine if they just found someone better, but the job is still posted and has been since January, so it seems that they aren’t really hiring for it anyway.

    Then I had another interview recently, similar situation…except the recruiter called to set up a time for a final interview with the VP responsible for the role for the next day, then cancelled it a few hours later and then ghosted me. It’s just so frustrating, since I can understand if they want to go with other people, but some resolution would be nice. Especially from the external recruiter, since you’d think it would be in his interest to keep me informed in case he ever wants to work with me again.

    1. Chauncy Gardener*

      I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this!
      It certainly is shortsighted of the recruiters to be ghosting you.
      Good luck and hope to see you in Friday’s good news soon!

  27. Jujyfruits*

    Question for recruiters – I thought I had a great interview last week. The recruiter ended our conversation by asking my availability for the next week. I thought this was a good sign, but when I heard back, I wasn’t moved forward. I’m curious, do recruiters ask for availability of all their candidates? Is this common?

    Thanks to AAM I’m not as hung up on this as I’d be in the past! But I’m low-key annoyed because she was asking pretty detailed questions about my schedule.

    1. T. Boone Pickens*

      Recruiter here, I always ask every candidate I speak with what their availability is so I can include it when I sent the candidate’s specs over to the hiring manager. It helps save an extra step.

  28. Bunny Girl*

    Why do some companies still insist on talking to your current manager when interviewing?

    I am job hunting and had an offer in a department that honestly I was pretty lukewarm on. They seemed overly rigid and I just didn’t feel like I would fit in or enjoy working there. But when they called to talk to me about the offer, they wanted to talk to my current supervisor! And it sounded like they wouldn’t fully extend the offer until they talked to them. I thanked them for their time but let them know I was pursuing other opportunities. But that totally turned me off from ever applying there again. It just seems so against professional norms.

    1. Bluebonnet*

      That is frustrating! I agree that supervisors should not be contacted by those who are hiring. It can cause so many issues and unnecessary drama (as well as give a supervisor retaliation opportunities).

    2. cardigarden*

      I had the exact situation a few months ago! Stupidly rigid interview (like, so rigid that I had no input on the date or time and I had to announce when I had completed every answer even though I was in the room with them), and then at the end of it they asked for FOUR references and one had to be my current supervisor. I’m fortunately in a position where I’m not actually looking to leave my current job but was intrigued enough by this one to throw my hat in, but I knew halfway through that this was absolutely not the job that I wanted to be the one to give my boss the idea that I had one foot out the door.

    3. Chauncy Gardener*

      I think that practice is totally insane. Who would want a prospective employer speaking with their current employer??
      I would exit stage left as well if that came up!

  29. rayray*

    anyone have any recommendations for a career-related podcast? I have a couple I have listened to, but I would be interested if there is anything that gives advice on job seeking, career switching, etc.

    1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

      I enjoy work appropriate but it’s more about your attitude to work and ‘ hey my whole field is broken what do I do ‘

    2. One green bottle*

      I loved Safe for Work.
      It’s no longer being made but I’m sure the episodes are available to listen to.
      Funny, savvy advice on work questions. Wry tone. Just the right amount of irreverance. Good advice.

    3. GlazedDonut*

      I enjoy the Harvard Business Review’s podcast Women at Work (I suppose it’s not just for women). I also enjoy Dear HBR (I don’t think they’ve had new episodes in a while, but they’re pretty solid). Both of those cover typical work-related topics– job hunting, switching careers, working with difficult people, speaking up, etc.

  30. Enn Pee*

    Asking for a friend:
    She works at Large State University in a tech support role. She recently moved from a very toxic group (that was innovative and continually doing things to streamline processes, etc.) to a very nice group (that is not innovative; everything is manual).
    She needs to stay (for pension purposes) but is frustrated with her work. When she tries to propose things that would help (either customer experience or coworkers’ workload), she gets shot down.
    I told her to keep a list, describe how much time would be saved in x months if the change were done, but keep it ’til she’s a year into the job and see if her supervisor would be more willing to listen.

    Does anyone have any other advice?

    1. Bluebonnet*

      How long has she been at the new job? If she has not been there long, I would recommend being cautions and learning how the new group operates (as well as their cultural norms). Then, she can use their language to push the envelope. I also like your suggesting on talking about how processes save money.

      I learned this the hard way from experience when I came into my current job as a whirlwind of change and had to pull back after co-workers adn supervisors were frustrated about too much too soon. Later on, when I had a better grip on culture and policy, I was successful in making changes that improved my department.

      1. Frankie*

        Yeah, and also, she will have more context about why the changes are being rejected or what dust she might be stirring up. Is she suggesting something that will save work down the road but would be complex to implement now? That’s an easy barrier right there that a newcomer will find it harder to surmount. Or is someone particularly protective of or attached to their process, or does this change have a downstream impact she’s not aware of, being so new, etc.

        Some groups are also just resistant to change, even small and easy to execute changes. That’s something she may find herself having to accept down the road, if the pension is the sticking point. That’d be a dealbreaker for me eventually!

    2. Charlotte Lucas*

      Baby steps! The list is a good idea, but figure out what others are frustrated by & start there. Some people need time to absorb a change, but I see it like introducing new foods to a kid. They often need to have it introduced 3 times before they try it.

      Is it possible for her to start improving processes on work that she handles herself first? She could model this for others. Or does everyone have the same tasks?

    3. Warrior Princess Xena*

      Are there things she can implement in her own day to day worklife that will improve her experience without causing issues for her coworkers? I’d encourage her to start with that – then she’ll have some tangible evidence that her suggestions work AND that they’ll save her time and effort.

    4. dear liza dear liza*

      I say this as someone who’s worked in higher ed for 20+ years… how long until she can retire? I’d actually recommend she shift into “coast.” Enjoy working with nice people, do the work as they want it to be done, and find fulfillment in hobbies, family, pets, and other non-work things. Sure, things could be improved and be better but in a large university, even nudging the needle can take YEARS.

      If it’s 10+ years until she can tap her pension, then I’d say she should try to carve out some space where she can make changes without getting permission or buy-in from others. Focus on what you can control and label everything else, not my monkeys, not my circus.

  31. New Mom*

    I had a second round interview this week! I have a job currently that I like but do to a lot of messy reorganizations I will need to leave at some point in the next 6-24 months.
    So I’m looking for a good fit for myself instead of having to scramble. The interview went really well and I’m not sure if I’m a good fit for the role or vice versa so I’ll have more questions if I make it to the next round.
    Some commenters from the previous few Fridays gave me such good advice and helped me feel confident enough to be really direct about the importance of WFH. It seems silly but I’ve previously always felt such a power imbalance that I’ve kept things like that to myself and just hoped for the best. Thank you everyone for your advice and encouragement!

    2. Firefighter (Metaphorical)*

      Yay! I haven’t commented before but I have been following your threads and wishing you well. Glad to get some good news!

  32. Scruffy and Confused*

    As an older trans guy just starting to hit the point where my facial hair is definitely obvious, but still in that “awkward-teenage-patchiness” stage: I’m wondering what to do about this from a workplace standpoint? I’m worried about seeming scruffy and unkempt if I don’t shave, but also worried about looking equally bad when I do – I have pale skin and dark hair, so my five oclock shadow is quite obvious, and it turns out I’m prone to large, angry ingrown hairs when I try to shave down to skin (ouch!). I’d prefer to let what little beard I have grow in, from both a physical-comfort standpoint, and a dysphoria-mitigation standpoint, but I also don’t know how “man in his 30s with the facial hair of a young teenager” would really read, professionally.

    I’m currently in the process of finding a new job, so I can’t really predict yet what kind of dress code my future job might have, so I’m curious about what others might think/have experienced at different jobs, to help me get an idea of what I might expect. The only men in my life all have full, even facial-hair-coverage, or cannot grow any at all, so I don’t really have anyone I know in the middle like me.

    1. HannahS*

      Could you trim it so it is sort of maintained at 5 o’clock shadow? The men I know who are prone to ingrown hairs do that, because they can’t shave all the way down.

    2. Lily Rowan*

      I think you could grow it a little and think of your beard as “Keanu Reeves style.”

    3. DoodleBug*

      Some men (cis or otherwise) just have that patchy kind of facial hair. One of my cis friends is nearing 40 and his beard/moustache just always look teenagerish. Given that your facial hair is still developing, I’d vote for being scrupulous about other grooming (to mitigate any “unkempt” vibes), trim any wild bits of facial hair, but otherwise let it grow the way you’d like to when it’s all filled in.

    4. Anon for this*

      Oh, I’m living this right now, terrible ingrown hairs, pale skin/black hair and all. I use a beard trimmer with a 1mm guard to keep things neat.

    6. Your Social Work Friend*

      The suggestions to keep it shaved down at first are great. You could also strategically trim/shave during long vacations. My husband is cursed with the ingrown hair issue as well and is patchy on his chin. So, he strategically planned growing his facial hair out more on long weekends and vacations to cover the patches. Using things that beard oil has also helped him to keep the skin underneath taken care of and reduce the ingrowns.

    7. RagingADHD*

      I know several cis guys 30 and up who just can’t grow robust or consistent facial hair. They usually keep it clean-shaven or they find a particular beard shape that de-emphasizes the patchiness.

    8. Hate shaving*

      I agree with the suggestions to just keep your facial hair trimmed for now. I never shave due to skin irritation but instead just keep a trimmed five o’clock shadow. My field is not very formal (environmental), but I think you should be fine with stubble in almost any field!

    9. Weaponized Pumpkin*

      My cis male ex was patchy, and one of his solutions was to keep it longish so the longer hairs would cover the patches. It wasn’t a super polished look but it did succeed at giving him a more full beard which made him more confident. (He sometimes went the other way and cropped it really short, but he had a fair bit of gray so it was low-contrast in a way you wouldn’t be.)

  33. Goddess47*

    Find a broker… that’s their job to put together what you need (and can afford) vs what’s out there… Your peers may not have a broker immediately in mind, but either ask someone in the retirement level or at a senior center. My financial advisor has an insurance broker on their staff… so ask around.

  34. Please remove your monkeys from my circus*

    Popping in to thank everyone who responded to my request a few weeks ago for short person-friendly desk chairs. I ended up getting the kid chair linked in one of the replies, and it’s perfect. I can’t find the post now (my Friday google skills are failing me, apparently), so I can’t thank the commenter individually, but: my wonky back and I thank you!

    1. Ella Kate (UK)*

      I remember that post (though I didn’t have anything to suggest at the time), I’m so happy you found a workable, comfortable solution!

  35. Treetop*

    Two managers are having a very obvious affair. It was the elephant in the room up until managers in another department picked up on it and started making comments about it out loud around them and directly to them. (They were flirting and touching each other so another manager called them out on it.)

    It’s awkward and uncomfortable. I work with the one manager so I cant avoid it. I’m in government so unless you do something horrible, they probably won’t be fired for this.

    Is it best to just ignore it?

    1. Rick Tq*

      About all you can do is ignore it, especially if they are in different departments or peers in the hierarchy…

    2. T. Wanderer*

      If the knowledge of the affair is the main uncomfortable thing (very reasonable!), probably all you can do it ignore it.

      If they’re very prone to PDA, you could maybe go to your manager’s boss? “Managers 1 and 2 engage in a lot of flirting and touching, and it makes me uncomfortable” is the sort of thing that falls under workplace sexual harassment — ymmv how that would go over in your workplace though.

      1. Treetop*

        We all have the same boss and she favors the managers so nothing would be done by her. I’d have to go to her boss or someone else.

    3. BellyButton*

      Is there a lot of PDA happening? That is actually grounds for sexual harassment- you shouldn’t be subjected to anything like that. I am pretty straight forward and if I witnessed it I would say “can you two knock off the PDA, it isn’t appropriate and makes me and others uncomfortable.” If they get upset or don’t stop, then I would escalate.

  36. ThatGuy*

    My boss wants us to build our own in-house collaboration tool just for our little team of 5 people, even though we already have fully-production ready enterprise-grade collab tools deployed and in use company wide.

    She has no experience developing software, had no product roadmap, no roles and responsibilities defined, and expected us to do this in addition to our regular work.

    I’ve tried reasoning with her, showing her the alternatives, walking through an agile roadmap, even prototyping what she wants using the existing Corp approved tools. But she’s stubbornly holding on (even hired a contractor to do UX before backend was fully built)

    When I tell her this is a bad idea, I’m made out to be a bad team player and unsupportive of the companies goals.

    I’m going nuts. How do I navigate this?

    1. Hlao-roo*

      I think your best bet is to ignore it as much as possible. Make general approving noises when she brings it up (instead of telling her it’s a bad idea), and then don’t work on it until she asks you to specifically do something for it. When she does ask, that’s when you bring up your questions about product roadmap, defined roles and responsibilities, etc. “Of course I can work on the collaboration tool, but before I get started, I need to know [what the product roadmap is/who own role X/etc.]”

      Also, let her know “sure thing I can work on the collaboration tool, but [task X] will take me about 8 hours so I won’t be able to get to the Johnson Account this week. Which do you want me to prioritize?”

    2. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

      You won’t be able to “logic” her out of it. The only way forward with this is let her blunder on, wasting company’s resources, and wait (I don’t think you will have to wait long) until her higher-ups or whoever is in charge of the official system get wind of it.

      1. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

        (Oh, and in the meantime accumulate content for your resume through working on this project.)

        1. Peanut Hamper*

          This!

          (Managers like this are completely unreasonable. Fortunately, non-bananapants managers are out there.)

    3. feline outerwear catalog*

      Can you get a time/hour cost estimate for how long development + maintenance would take?

      We had this in a past job. Grandboss hired a consultant, paid them ridiculous amounts of money for a heavily bespoke/custom app which also required everyone to have an expensive license of a software product to use the app, then it was painful and inefficient to use and we replaced it a year or maybe less later with a commercial app.

      If you have a legal/complianceI/T security department maybe threats about maintaining random data might help if there is anything sensitive or proprietary about your tasks. My horrible experience was 8ish years ago, I don’t think it would fly in the current tech environment.

      Sending solidarity, good luck!

  37. Prospect Gone Bad*

    “Peter principle” and “imposter syndrome” are getting brought up too much all over the internet. I think it’s reasonable that a manager or director will struggle with parts of their job as they get promoted, that isn’t “peter principle.” Labelling it as such creates a not so great notion that you should never promote anyone because they may not be perfect at the new role. And feeling inadequate in a new job is also normal, it does not mean it’s a “syndrome.” In fact, you SHOULD feel a bit out of place in a new role, or you’re taking jobs that are at or below your skill level and are stagnating.

    I wonder how these newer trends are going to bleed into real life. From what I’m seeing, I am seeing people brush off problems that could be fixed by thinking it’s only a confidence issue

    1. nnn*

      These aren’t newer trends, “Peter principle” has been getting brought up since at least the 1980s. Imposter syndrome probably as long.

      1. Prospect Gone Bad*

        Right but people are now bringing them up every single day. Go to reddit’s career and job boards, it’s in basically every comment thread. Every single time someone says “I don’t feel like I’m doing well at my new job” it gets “that’s just imposter syndrome.” That is the new trend.

        1. nnn*

          With respect, a large portion of your comments here reference trends you see on Reddit. That’s not the real world, it’s like taking all your info about how the world works from Tumblr or a hermit who never leaves his parents’ basement.

          1. Prospect Gone Bad*

            True! But where else is there to go? (and if there is an alternative, I’d be happy to see since I’m tired of the horrible advice over there that always frames the company as boss as horrible, or tells the person they’re woefully underpaid even if they earn a lot, etcetera)

    2. Stuckinacrazyjob*

      Imposter syndrome is often caused by the fact that if you’re a woman or a poc or neurodivergent you get a lot of negative feedback or see others advance in jobs when you don’t so you think you’re doing something wrong. even the creators of the syndrome acknowledge it as a systemic problem not a ‘ syndrome ‘

    3. Qwerty*

      The imposter syndrome side of things have been going on for a while. I think it is partly due to therapy-speak being such a common part of daily language. I think I had a long post about that in Monday’s comment section. I get really frustrated that as a woman, any assessment I have about my own skills is brushed off as a confidence issue and termed “imposter syndrome”. When people hear my strong work history, the first question I tend to get is “how did you overcome imposter syndrome?” or “how does imposter syndrome affect your daily life” and they get really annoyed when I say that I have never had it.

      1. Irish Teacher*

        Yeah, I think a lot of it is people hearing these terms and not really understanding the context. My experience of hearing “imposter syndrome” in my off-line life has been different from yours – people using it to mean “I’m now feeling a bit nervous about starting this new job” rather than “due to my experiences as a woman/neurodivergent person/POC/childhood abuse/growing up in poverty/having a learning difficulty, I struggle to feel as confident as my colleagues even though logically, I am performing as well as or better than them.”

        But I think both interpretations are due to people picking up on buzzwords without considering the serious context. I see it with a lot of topics, especially stuff like mental health and dietery issues where people hear about something and assume it applies to everybody, like “people with x condition can be triggered by y food” becomes “y food is bad for you and everybody should avoid it.”

        I honestly think the way this bleeds into normal life is people who actually have these issues end up being ignored because it gets interpreted as “well, everybody does that.” Like if we use “imposter syndrome” to mean “doubting yourself when you get a promotion and taking some time to realise that yes, you are good at this,” then we ignore the social problems that mean some groups are more likely to doubt themselves for longer.

        Even assuming that you, as a woman, must experience imposter syndrome plays into an assumption that this is inevitable rather than related to how people are socialised.

  38. ecnaseener*

    In the AAM archives I’ve come across a few variants on “should I have a pop of color on my resume? / No, don’t bother, literally all that matters is that it’s readable, keep it plain.”

    I’m curious, is that true if you’re hiring for jobs that involve making decent-looking materials like slide decks etc? — not design roles by any stretch, just roles where you routinely need to make a presentation or whatever and it should look polished. Is there really zero benefit to, say, setting off headings with a desaturated blue? (I’m sure it’s a small benefit vs a completely plain but inoffensive resume, but zero?)

    1. Elle*

      I’m getting a lot of resumes now with color and pictures. I ignore all of it. I’m looking at experience, spelling and if it’s formatted correctly.

      1. ecnaseener*

        Definitely not talking about pictures! That’s why I gave the example of a really simple, conservative bit of color.

        And to clarify, do you hire for the sort of roles I described? (If so — do you just figure they can learn this stuff on the job so it’s not important to assess up front?)

        1. Elle*

          I am hiring for a role now that needs to create slide decks. I want them to have previous experience making them but will ask for examples later on. The resume is a good starting point that tells me they pay attention to details. It doesn’t matter if they add a little flair to the resume.

    2. Jujyfruits*

      You can do it but it won’t make a difference. Employers care about what you accomplished.

      I have a portfolio with work samples that is linked on my resume. Try that: have a small slide deck you created to use as a sample of your design skills to use when needed.

    3. Flying Princess Hedgehog*

      I definitely appreciate a clean, well-structured template for a resume. But I’m not going to care if it’s all black and white versus some limited color use. If I’m going to focus on anything, it’s the use of whitespace, consistent use of heading style, use of bulleting/indenting/whatever you’re using to show hierarchy, etc.

      1. Tio*

        Yeah, that’s generally what I would want. If you’re black and white but everything’s laid out nice, easy to read, and concise, I will pick that person over someone who has color but lesser formatting. And if I had two people with the same sort of resume and one black and white and one color, I don’t know that I’d even notice.

    4. EMP*

      I don’t hire in that field but all of our resumes (by the time they get to me, on the team but not the hiring manager) are often stripped of formatting and stuff by the software our HR uses anyway.

    5. Hiring Mgr*

      There may not be much benefit, but I don’t think there’s any harm either. If someone were to pass on you because you included a splash of color, that would be bizarre on their part and I’d question their judgement

    6. Kimmy Schmidt*

      I used a bit of color in my resume sections (dark blue, so it was still readable in case the resume got printed) but that’s because I like colorful things and it’s a small things that made me feel more motivated to job search. It was for my personal benefit. When I see resumes now, I don’t even really notice if they use a bit of color vs. all black and white, as long as there is nothing illegible or distracting.

    7. Ranon*

      I’m reviewing resumes for design and non-design roles in a design field and honestly I would be happier with less design, more intentionality about how information is communicated.

      If the color improves communication, knock yourself out, I once reviewed a resume that had a great little graphic that communicated relevant info so well I adapted the concept for myself (and we hired the candidate and he was indeed good at design and communicating). If it’s decorative, skip it.

  39. L spin*

    Alison answered a question this week from an employee whose manager was being a jerk during their notice period. I am in the opposite situation. I am a senior manager and my employee (who is a more junior manager with about 6 direct reports) is being a jerk during her notice period.

    Some context – 1 month’s notice is standard in my field. We have about two weeks to go in this person’s notice period. She has been snarky and unpleasant since she gave notice (well, actually she has been snarky and unpleasant the whole time she’s worked here, but it’s been worse since she gave her notice). She also badmouthed me to HR after she gave her notice, complaining she was poorly trained and overwhelmed with work. I checked in with her regularly about her workload and she never once told me she was overwhelmed. Also, every time I walk by her office, she is playing a game on her phone. Every. Single. Time. Part of her job is being assigned projects that take 1-2 days to complete, and she has started complaining about having to do these projects because she won’t have time to wrap up the work before she leaves. The wrapping up of her ongoing tasks is very brief and she should have plenty of time to complete the projects. I have asked them not to assign her any more for her last few days, but until then I need her to keep working on them. She has basically stopped managing her direct reports and I have taken over most of that work. I am trying very hard to be nice and take a “kill her with kindness” approach but I am getting exhausted by having to explain on almost a daily basis that yes, as long as you work here, I expect you to work (when you’re not playing on your phone, I guess). Any advice for getting through her last two weeks, whether practical management advice or just how I can best deal with the annoyance she is causing me?

    1. Johnny Karate*

      Is there a reason you can’t just end the notice period now? “Thank you for the heads up, but we’re all set and you should go” kind of thing? I feel like a standard notice period also depends on getting standard behavior, which this isn’t.

    2. BellyButton*

      I would go to HR and let them know she isn’t doing anything other than bringing negativity to the team and ask if you can just let her go now. Pay out her notice period and just cut your losses. She isn’t doing anything anyway, so why let it continue.

      1. L spin*

        I could potentially try, but by the time I get it through HR, my guess is her notice period will be up.

        1. Angela*

          I would absolutely fire her for cause – not doing her work is justification for that. Even if it takes two weeks to process, you could make a case for not paying her for the time she was there and not doing her job.

    4. Rick Tq*

      Your key is ‘as long as you work here’… She isn’t working and she doesn’t care about threats.

      Terminate her now, that is clearly what she wants.

      She doesn’t care she will be on the No Rehire list.

    5. My Useless 2 Cents*

      I’d try and think of her as “already gone” and any work you do get out of her from this point on as a bonus. It may lessen the frustration of seeing her sitting at her desk playing on her phone…. it may not.

      My suggestions would be:

      1) Something to keep her in her office to minimize the negativity. Ex. assign her something like a training manual for the job and the different jobs that report to that position? Bonus if you actually get something usable out of it to train the next person in that position.

      2) Something that needs to be done but is so low priority no one actually has time to do it. Ex. Inventory and reorganize the supply closet? Again, bonus if it actually gets done but “shrug” if it doesn’t really.

      Ending her notice period early just sounds like giving her an extra vacation (which may be what she wants) and rewarding bad behavior. But then again, I’m petty enough to give someone a large bowl of paper clips to sort by size just because they are still on the clock ;)

  40. Lily Rowan*

    I’ve been in more or less the same job for a while now, and would love to stay within my institution, but I’ve been thinking about my next move. I’ve started to look at postings, had one interview, etc., but honestly, I mostly miss my previous role, that I got re-orged out of. Well, some staff moves make me think I could suggest a re-org back into a version of the previous role. My boss and grandboss are supportive and like me, so I don’t think there is any risk in overshooting. I just have to get myself hyped up to make the ask.

    2. Anon4This*

      I feel this and I am in a similar situation- my role has changed over the years with multiple re-orgs; another change is coming and I am losing a part of the job I loved. I have been trying to network with people I trust and know me, and hoping I can go back to more of what I used to do.

  41. spiriferida*

    My supervisor has been working in two roles for a month or two now, and she just informed us that she’ll be moving full-time into her other role in a few weeks. Her job has been posted, but I don’t expect that it will be filled immediately on her departure – and she’ll be taking a lot of institutional knowledge about our department with her when she goes. I’ll probably have a chance to participate in the interviews, though obviously not make the decision myself.

    I’ve never had my direct manager change while staying in the same role, and I’m finding myself pretty nervous about what the change will be like – less so about the possibility of training my new supervisor, but about how expectations might change. For those who have gone through this, what kinds of growing pains did you find? How did it turn out in the end? How braced should I be?

    1. Jaunty Banana Hat I*

      The one time it happened to me, the biggest shift was the change in flexibility for work hours. I went from a boss that liked that I came in late and stayed late to a boss that wanted everyone in 8-5 with exactly 1 hour off for lunch. I left for another job 3 months later, partly because it was so rigid for no reason at all–we weren’t providing coverage or anything like that. Otherwise it wasn’t a big deal because the overarching structure of the job was dictated by the roles we had and the institution we worked for, and the new boss was otherwise reasonable, but time flexibility is possibly the number one thing I value in a job, so for me the change was rough.

  42. Remote Ctrl Alt Del*

    I know it’s been covered a lot, but still wondering about remote work and what we can expect now in whatever stage of a pandemic we’re in now. My organization decided to stay fully remote and has been generally really supportive of that (including hiring new people from other states, providing equipment, lots of tools, etc.) However, one consequence is that a lot of the time when people have sick kids, they still work instead of taking sick leave and it’s like…. pretty disruptive. (I also have a toddler and am sympathetic to not wanting to miss a lot of work, especially this year with the CONSTANT illness, but I don’t have any backup care so I usually end up having to take a sick day because I find it too distracting on my end. I think the issue is that my coworkers do have some backup care, like parents who live with them or coparents, but they’re still interrupted a lot because obviously their kids want to hang out with them!)
    Are there things the organization can do to encourage people to take more sick leave? (like increase the amount or maybe be more flexible about deadlines if people have to miss a lot of work?) Or should we all just suck it up and accept that this will hopefully get better when next year’s cold season is less severe? I think the organization really wants to support parents AND… people don’t really enjoy being interrupted mid-sentence like 10 times in an hour-long meeting because someone has to go off camera to speak with their children.

    1. Jaunty Banana Hat I*

      Maybe they could emphasize that meetings need to be attended without interruption, and if that’s not possible, then employees need to take sick leave for that block of time? Or at least tell people not to interrupt others just to announce they need to go off camera (the same way you wouldn’t get up in a meeting and announce you’re going to the toilet, you would just quietly get up, exit, handle your business, and come back in quietly).

      1. Remote Ctrl Alt Del*

        Thanks, that would be a helpful general guideline to have I think! It seems to be more of an issue in small meetings, where I guess people feel like it would be rude to just suddenly go off camera (especially if someone is talking directly to you at the moment!)

    2. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      I think looking at how much sick time is offered could make a big difference. In a previous role I was swimming in sick/vacation time so it was literally not a concern for me to take the days when I needed them, and if there was something time sensitive I’d either do it during the sick day or just finish it when I got back. I was never resentful about working on a “sick” day because I had so many of them, they didn’t feel like scarce resources.

      Now I work somewhere with SO FEW sick/vacation days that every one of them is like gold and it has to be a big deal for me to take the day. It probably doesn’t help that no one here has young kids so I feel like it looks bad for me, one of the newer employees, to always be taking time off when no one else is.

  43. Did The Research*

    Follow up to the betta fish story from a couple weeks ago.

    My plans ended up accelerating when it looked like the poor little guy was starting to possibly get fin rot. It was a little hard to tell because the betta himself is naturally red (with a little blue iridescence under tank light, it’s super pretty) and it would have been early stage fin rot but… definitely something I wanted to nip in the bud. Additionally, I was a little bit frustrated with coworkers because my attempts to improve his quality of life (in this case trying to keep him on a regular day/night lighting schedule) were being undermined and my concerns about that, other quality improvements like tank temperature + the possible fin rot were all being completely dismissed. On top of that, we were about to leave him completely alone for a whole weekend (the previous weekends there at least had been a couple people coming in and working overtime).

    So I just took executive action and loaded the betta and his bowl in my car and let me tell you that was the most stressful 45 minute drive home I’ve ever had.

    The next day my spouse (who has been 100% on board with this whole endeavor) and I went over to some local fish specialty stores and got him the whole nine yards – tank, filter, heater, live plants, hardscape, specialty food, etc. We got lucky actually and managed to snag a full 9-gallon prefab that one had previously used for a display that they’d since torn down and were selling at a significant discount. There was even a water supplement that – so long as I use it every day for the first week – would let me put him in right away before the first full cycle (and even if that hadn’t been the case, I might have put him in anyway because it still would have been better thant the bowl).

    Anyway he’s been in the tank for a few days now and is clearly loving it. He’s constantly exploring, making faces at himself in the glass, making HUGE bubble nests. And he’s started recognizing me! Whenever I come up to the tank he starts swimming up to the top front edge and darting all around. My spouse says he doesn’t do that for her, only me (although I expect that’ll probably change when she starts feeding him more, haha). Watching his personality really start to come out has been a delight.

    So far as work goes, the only person who’s really seemed to take issue with it is one of the coworkers who was also looking after him – one of the ones who was most emphatically dismissing my pushes for better conditions for the fish. The one who talked about wanting to get live plants for him but apparently wanted to go to a local pond to get something? Because said coworker was baffled when I got a live plant from the local petstore.

    I’m… not good with confrontation, as some of you may have guessed, and I’m not sure if I’ll be able to lie well enough to say he died, especially since I’ve been working so hard to make his life better. If she keeps pushing for me to bring him back then I’ll probably have to sit down with her and my team leads and just lay out how the fish’s poor conditions were stressing me out and distracting me, show my research on minimum requirements, return the bowl and other equipment he previously had (was planning to do this anyway), even offer to buy the guy if needed.

    I’m just worried that even if they accept me taking this betta home, they might just go get another. Then again, aforementioned coworker constantly seems super discontent at this office (bad personality fit I think?) so that problem may resolve itself? It’s hard to say. I’m kind of in “wait and see” mode, but I’ve been practicing a lot of scripts in my head either way. Any other advice in that regard would be appreciated.

    On the plus side at least, I’ve shown his new setup and even videos to some other coworkers who ended up asking about where he went, and they were super happy to see him doing okay and his new setup! I got a lot more of a sense there that they were okay with him not coming back, so long as he was alive and well.

    Anyway, sorry for the long-winded follow-up. This has been a very big issue in my mind lately, and it’s also been a distraction for other stressors that I can’t do much about personally (yay for being LGBT+ in Texas……. /s). So I have a lot of thoughts. So many.

    1. Prospect Gone Bad*

      You are a saint. I’ve rescued bettas before but the person always agreed first and I round-about got them to say they’d never get another one (I know that sounds dramatic when you write it out online, but all that means is getting them to agree in a lightly toned conversation that it’s more difficult than they thought)

  44. Magda*

    Last year a spent several months as an intern at a company that I really enjoyed. About 7 weeks ago, they posted a job opening that is very aligned with what my internship position was (but with a few additional responsibilities that an intern would not have done). I was really excited about the role and I always had great feedback from not only my supervisor but other staff and my boss’s boss as well, I was frequently given extra assignments, etc.

    I applied right away and sent an email to my former supervisor to let her know I was applying and giving her a little update on what I’ve been up to since we last worked together. She sent back a very positive message, told me it was great to hear from me, she was glad I was applying, her boss was on the hiring committee, and she would be sure to let her know to look for my application.

    That was 6-7 weeks ago and I haven’t heard anything since. They said they were reviewing material on an ongoing basis. I know these processes can be long, and I know I’m not entitled to a job or even an interview and that they may have a ton of other great candidates, but I’m worried about the fact that I haven’t heard ANYTHING from them. If they weren’t going to interview/consider me, wouldn’t they at least reach out to say so, given we had, what I thought was, a really good working relationship?

    I’m just feeling really paranoid that they may ghost me and that being ghosted would indicate I’ve done something wrong or slighted my boss’s boss or the team in some way, but I have no idea what! It also occurred to me recently that a few months ago I applied for a job in my old boss’s boss’s former company, which she still has great connections to, and they never reached out again after I interviewed and gave a very cursory “we haven’t decided yet” email when I reached out to check in again a couple weeks after I interviewed. I didn’t think too much about it at the time, but now it’s adding to my concern.

    I have no idea if I should reach out to anyone again to see if I’ve done something wrong or there’s something I’m missing that they are looking for or whatever, and that if I do, how long I should wait before doing so. If it’s just that I’m not right for this role, I’m just surprised they wouldn’t tell me that, and if there’s something wrong with ME specifically regardless of the role, I’d like to know that too so I can correct whatever I’m doing wrong/apologize if I did something/know to stop bugging them when they post job openings.

    1. Hlao-roo*

      I’m just feeling really paranoid that they may ghost me and that being ghosted would indicate I’ve done something wrong

      First, assume you will get ghosted a lot while job searching. Not by every company, but by most. When it’s your baseline expectation, it will be a lot less confusing and upsetting when it happens. If/when companies do get back to you, either with an interview request or with a rejection email, it will be a pleasant surprise. I know in this particular case, you have more reason to expect to hear back than when applying at a company where you have no connections, so more on that later.

      Second, ghosting is not a sign that you did something wrong. As I mentioned above, it’s so incredibly common. Rude? Yes. Common? Also yes. People on the hiring side can be thoughtless, or disorganized (person A assumes person B will send out the rejections and vice versa), or the Applicant Tracking System is set up wrong (hiring person assumes that when they click the “reject” button a rejection email is sent, but that option wasn’t configured in the software), etc.

      Third, in this case, I would wait until it has been two months since you reached out to your former supervisor, then send a short check-in message. In the meantime, keep applying to other places. Focusing on resumes and cover letters will make it harder to dwell on “why aren’t they reaching out to me? what did I do wrong?” (Very likely: you did nothing wrong.)

    2. PollyQ*

      As always, filling a job takes longer than anyone thinks, so they may still get back to you. But more importantly, even if they do pass on you, it doesn’t mean you did anything wrong! It may simply be that there are more qualified candidates who applied.

    3. Tio*

      You may be able to reach out to your old supervisor, just once, since you have an established relationship and say “Hey, I applied a few weeks ago but never heard anything back. Do you think I should keep waiting on contact or have they filled the position?”

    4. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      I very much doubt if you’ve done anything wrong at all.

      You may still be in the running, as some places can have really really slow hiring processes.
      Unfortunately, too many employers don’t keep candidates informed and often just ghost them – which shows their rudeness and lack of professionalism, but would absolutely NOT be a reflection on you or anything you’ve done wrong.

      It’s fine for you to check up once about your application, but if you have already done this, I wouldn’t do so again: they have your application; they know you are interested.

      I hope they have the courtesy to update you.
      Keep applying to other jobs elsewhere though; many people send a lot of applications before even getting an interview, especially at entry level.
      Best of luck in your job search!

  45. Corrigan*

    How much can you tell employees about other employees? I currently need people to pick up someone else’s slack* and is it ok to just tell them that? They’re not idiots and they can see that they’re being given extra work that’s older and ideally would have been completed already and if they look into the project history can see that it was previously assigned to Fergus.

    (*The employee is being dealt with separately but left a lot of unfinished work before going on vacation and it needs to be done sooner.)

    1. Jaunty Banana Hat I*

      Just say that you need them to do it because Fergus was supposed to and can’t now.

      1. WestsideStory*

        Yes that is what to say. Try to keep the disdain out of your voice though. :)

        1. Anecdata*

          Just say you need it done urgently / need them to get XYZ. You can say “while Fergus is out” but no need to say “and he’s being dealt with separately”

          But what you DO need to tell your team is what of their regular work can be dropped or delayed so they can pick up these urgent Fergus items. What breeds resentment isn’t having to switch items; it’s getting all the extra work in addition to your regular

    2. Tio*

      “We’ve run into some snags on this project and XYZ needs to be completed by TIME. Please let me know if you run into an issues while we sort out the previous issues to avoid this for next time.”

    3. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      I wouldn’t mention Fergus at all to other employees. Just assign the work.

      However, do check whether they have the capacity – without working extra hours – or whether they need you to take away some other tasks or roll back due dates.

    4. Girasol*

      The employee picking up the slack might go to Fergus and say, “You know what the boss said about you when assigning me this work?” Don’t say anything you don’t want repeated.

    5. Scarlet Ribbons in Her Hair*

      Don’t use the words “pick up someone else’s slack,” because that employee will hear “I want you to do the work that he/she/they were supposed to do, and we’re not going to give you one extra penny.”

  46. Freelance Blues*

    What is the best way to talk about freelancing in an interview if it wasn’t that successful? I was a freelancer for two years. I did enjoy it, but I wasn’t making nearly enough money at it to keep doing it, so I had to go back to work. I got lucky scoring a part time job that ended up going full time, but now that I’m looking for a new role, I’m not sure how to talk about that period of my resume. I don’t want it to seem like I’m planning on going back to freelance but I also think anything smacking of failure makes me a less appealing candidate, whether it should be relevant or not. What are some good phrases? I was saying “ultimately I decided it wasn’t for me” but given that I did it for two years I think that seems weird. I also tried “I missed being part of a team,” but TBH that’s a flat lie.

    1. Sunshine*

      Been there. I went with “I learned a lot but ultimately want something more stable long-term.” I also think it’s okay to lie about wanting to be part of a team!

    2. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

      I think giving it 2 years and deciding it wasn’t for you is a fine narrative. That’s why that “ultimately” is there.

      In that time you’d probably worked on all aspects of whatever your business “cycle” looks like. I would be more concerned if someone was freelancing for 2 months and then said they’d changed their mind (because that isn’t really long enough to give the situation a chance). I would talk openly about what kinds of projects you worked on and the parts you enjoyed and were good at; you don’t want an interviewer thinking that “freelancing” is a cover for a resume gap if you are vague about it.

  47. no good at limbo*

    My entire team’s having fun with wild speculation time right now.

    The company’s gone through some upheaval (reorgs, relocations, etc.) lately, and now we’re noticing a change in behavior from our manager over the past few months. They’re based (and live near) a smaller suburban satellite office. But for the last few months, they’ve been going in to the main office in a nearby major city like twice a week.

    Their commute into the city isn’t horribly long, but does involve fighting to get on a very crowded train, changing trains twice, etc. A lot more of a pain compared to their usual commute of driving 15 minutes, and not something a person would normally choose to do so frequently without reason. This also coincides with a noticeable upswing in meetings marked private in their calendar.

    The popular guess is that our team’s being moved to a different department, but it also could just be coincidence with a really mundane explanation. No one on the team has been brave enough to ask yet, so whispered gossip it is.

    1. BookMom*

      The private appointments could be medical appointments at a clinic closer to the other office. I’d put that fully in the “none of my business” category.

      1. no good at limbo*

        That was one option we thought of, but they’re showing as online, in a call, or presenting during pretty much of them.

        1. WellRed*

          I’d guess some sort of strategic planning like moving to a new department, as you’ve suggested.

    2. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

      Some possibilities:

      M&A activity
      Satellite office being closed and you all will move to the main office
      Satellite office being closed and people will be laid off
      Reorganisation of reporting lines
      Outsourcing

    3. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      In addition to the suggested reasons about your satellite office and moves/layoffs …. it may just be about your manager

      e.g. she could be ramping up for a promotion at head office.
      Or she could be joining the meetings there after attending private medical appointments nearby.

      1. Edna Mode*

        It might not be related to the company at all. Your manager may be going through a life change such as a marital separation and/or an additional relationship.

  48. Universal truth*

    Has anyone had experience with a coworker asking you if you hate them? I have been polite and professional but not particularly friendly for many reasons. my response is along the lines of no, why do you fell that way?

    1. WellRed*

      No experience but man, that’s awkward when people pull that sht. “Do you hate me?” “are you mad at me?”

    2. RagingADHD*

      I don’t recall a coworker in particular, but I have had someone ask me that before in a social situation. My response was that my jaw dropped and something like “I don’t hate anybody, what do you mean?”

      I assume my genuine astonishment convinced them that I had no idea what they were talking about. If you already know what they are responding to because you are conscious of being reserved or distant with them, that’s a bit of a different scenario.

      What did they say when you asked why they felt that?

    3. Angela*

      Yes, and it didn’t end well. Despite my protestations to the contrary, they never believed I didn’t hate them. They lodged baseless complaints with my manager about how I treated them, and I was told to be friendlier to them. I just continued on as usual, and tried to avoid them as much as possible. This went on for years until they retired. You can’t fix other people’s insecurities for them.

    4. Boss Scaggs*

      Nobody’s ever asked me that, but if they did I would be mortified that I had done something wrong, or certainly wonder why they felt that way.

      You say you’re not particularly friendly with them, so they might just be using “hate” as hyperbole, and maybe they’re curious why you’re not warmer.

  49. Flowers*

    A bit of a light/low stakes question –

    Wearing a wig every Fri this summer. Office would be light on staff. Just doing it for the hell of it; experimenting with different colors/styles. Yay or nay?

    fwiw, no worries about the dress code here. Some people wear interesting outfits while I err on the side of dressy/feminine. Im not client facing, at least not on a regular basis. Don’t think the partners would care – I went from super black hair to yellow with nary a comment from them.

    1. Hlao-roo*

      I say “yay.” You might get a few comments, especially in the first few weeks, but if you treat the comments like compliments and offer “it’s Friday” as the only explanation, pretty soon it’ll be unremarkable that Flowers is wearing a wig, because it’s Friday.

  50. Sloanicota*

    What is your go-to move when people senior to you start with the “kids these days …” conversation? I am on the cusp on Gen X but am actually a milennial, so I don’t really want to be party to conversations about how today’s young people are lazy/don’t want to work any more / require too many boundaries / are greedy or whatever. My bosses and grandboss are sweet people who do in fact work incredibly hard, nights/weekends whatever it takes, but I think that’s inappropriate to expect of entry level people making 40K a year in our expensive city. Yes, we’re in nonprofit. They would say that’s how they started out / paid their dues and that’s true but I’m actually on Team Young People Boundaries.

    1. T. Wanderer*

      “I wish I had such good boundaries when I was starting out! It would have made my life so much easier :)”

    2. Dark Macadamia*

      “Actually, I think (thing they’re whining about) is really great/impressive!”

      “I haven’t found that to be true at all.”

      “(Whiny thing) sounds pretty reasonable to me!”

      “I don’t think it makes sense to expect (thing) from entry-level staff.”

    3. Prospect gone bad*

      Same. I frame it as “70k now is our 40k and you need 110k today to live like 70k in our time” and then give examples of how they live. Like “Sam lives paycheck to paycheck with two roommates I doubt we’re going to ask him to fill management type duties.” Obviously only behind closed doors

      1. Sloanicota*

        I actually wish I had research/numbers on this. Like, if I understand, people in the 80’s weren’t paying for health insurance, right? Or were they paying, but less? When I was just starting out, health insurance premiums took a HUGE amount out of my paycheck – that plus rent left me essentially broke on 30K, and there was no universe where I could have done anything other than rack up credit card debt. My sense is that health care + student loans is the difference between today’s entry level employee making 30K and the prior generation’s entry level employee even if they were making less in “real” dollars. But is that true?? (My parents always tell me that houses were cheaper, but mortgage interest was astronomical, so it was kind all the same in home-buying, but I doubt their math sometimes).

        2. Prospect Gone Bad*

          IME it’s simpler, that people don’t get the full weight of inflation because the official inflation measures calculate the larger expenses (i.e. housing) oddly (owners equivalent rent).

          But even with the flawed CPI inflation measurement aside, google usd inflation calculator. The results are good enough to work with.

          For example, where I worked in 2002, the underpaid-for-then lowly positions paid $30K – $32K and they were complaining about it then, and that’s $50K now. Highly skilled individual contributors at my corporate job in 2010 earned $70K which is $98K now. Our admin then made exactly $50K which is $70K now. And no one was saying she made that much, it was just a very average salary.

    4. Rick Tq*

      My response is to either ignore it or ask if they talked to Socrates lately. Complaints about “Kids these days” aren’t anything remotely new.

      Cue up “Four Yorkshiremen” clip on Youtube.

    5. RagingADHD*

      Depending how well I knew them, I’d say something like “Kids these days can do math,” or

      “You know, I remember when I was a kid, people used to talk about the reason Communism was falling apart was that there was no incentive to work hard and get ahead. I mean, look around. These young people have no incentive either. They can barely afford to live. What does society expect?”

    6. So Very Anon*

      I’m boomer-age as is supervisor. I detest hearing them say things like, “The young ones in X dept. haven’t learned how to do Y yet..” and things of that nature.

      Hey supervisor: Way to make yourself sound completely out of touch! And disrespectful to those coworkers! And now everyone knows you’re old, cranky and resentful because YOU JUST SAID THAT! Good job.

      1. Sloanicota*

        if it makes you feel any better, in my own personal experience, Gen X supervisors are waaay more brutal towards us Millennials / Gen Z.

    7. Irish Teacher*

      Might not be appropriate with your bosses, but I tend to remind people that the exact same things have been said about every generation.

  51. Stuckinacrazyjob*

    Wishing there were therapists who worked with work issues and trauma! Out of the box CBT doesn’t work for me ( although my last therapist did probably get fired for his approach so it’s probably not just me)

    1. Seahorse*

      I mostly talk to my therapist about work stuff, and she’s been really helpful!
      I found her by sorting through listings provided by my insurance company, looking for someone who didn’t specialize in family or relationships.

      1. Silver Linings From Dreamland*

        Your insurance may cover BetterHelp- 100% virtual therapy and the first 3 sessions are free so you can “try” therapists before “buying”. Just sign up and fill out a questionnaire where you can specify areas of interest and other preferences and you’ll be matched with a therapist. The first therapist I was matched with was a CBT specialist and that didn’t really work for me because I had some deep thoughts at the time so following my lone session with her, I probably “swiped right” on close to a dozen before finding a great one who I still talk monthly with after a year. Good luck!

        1. Silver Linings From Dreamland*

          *Please ignore the double post, my Internet may have gone out as I was writing.*

      2. Sloanicota*

        My only problem with therapists on work stuff is that they generally haven’t had the office life experience, so they may not always have the most practical suggestions for how to do things within the office culture. Or at least, I’m sure many must, but none that I’ve seen.

    2. Whomst*

      ACT (Acceptance and Commitment Therapy) is often under the umbrella of CBT, but tends to be a lot better for folks with recurrent issues and some trauma. Maybe look for providers who are familiar with that.

      1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

        I’ve been reading the happiness trap and it seems good. There has been such an advance in behavioral therapy .. ( I am interested because one of my issues at work is the children will talk about their trauma and I feel stress(

    3. Silver Linings From Dreamland*

      Your insurance may cover BetterHelp- 100% virtual therapy. The first 3 sessions are free so you can “try therapists before “buying” them. Just sign up and fill out a questionnaire where you can select preferences on the type of therapy and therapist you’d like. The first therapist I was matched with specialized in CBT which didn’t really work for my deep thoughts at the time and after my lone session with her, I probably “swiped right” on close to a dozen before finding a great one whom I still consult with after a year. Good luck!

    4. AnonyMs*

      EMDR is for all kinds of trauma. It has helped my ptsd and the Veterans Administration uses it for that too. The Psychology Today website has names of practitioners if you want one.

  52. Abominable Snow Woman*

    When asked by my current employer or a potential interviewer why I want to change jobs, is it valid and professional to say that I simply want to work closer to home? I have about a half hour commute in dense traffic and my job isn’t special or interesting enough to stay.

    1. GoryDetails*

      Sure. (Though for your current employer I might leave out the bit about how uninteresting the job is! For inteviewers, maybe “want to work closer to home AND would like something a little more challenging,” unless you’re happy with a not-that-interesting job, which is also fine.) I suspect the only reason most employers would be interested in why someone’s leaving is if there’s something they can do to fix it (and avoid a new job-hunt); if you think they might try to talk you into staying, maybe offering part-time work-from-home (if that’s an option in your work), consider ahead of time whether you’d be open to negotiating or if you just want out.

    2. Colette*

      It’s not a great answer. For your current employer, it’s probably fine, but for an interviewer, it sounds like you are focused on the commute, not the job.

    3. Extra anony*

      Current employer, yes. For an interviewer, What if you said something like, “I initially started looking for opportunities closer to my home, and in the process I’ve found that I’m interested in the new challenges that X or Y opportunity will bring”. I think in the interview it should be spun toward the substance of the work.

    4. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      I think it depends on what the difference in commute would be. 30 minutes doesn’t strike me as a horrible commute so it would need to be a job with a 5-10 minute commute (or remote) for that explanation to make sense.

      I’ve considered using the commute as a reason should I need to leave this job; my current commute is 50-70 minutes each way (fully in person) and the other jobs I’d be looking at would be 15-20 minutes and hybrid.

    5. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      “my job isn’t special or interesting enough to stay”

      You can genuinely say that your current job isn’t challenging and you would like to develop your talents to progress professionally. To a prospective employer, explain why their job sounds right for you.

      30 minutes sounds rather trivial to mention to an employer, even if it is one of your motivations.

  53. Tessellated Daisy*

    Any other teachers here, have you ever requested that a student not be placed in your class? How did it go?

    For context, I work in a private, 100% online school. No disability accommodations as far as I’m aware. I suspect, but do not know for sure, that the student’s previous teacher requested this student moved to another class.

    I don’t feel unsafe, but I am getting tired of having this child spend every class alternately pushing the boundaries on what is an appropriate time and amount to talk, and then very visibly sulking when I enforce those boundaries. I have had multiple one-one-one conversations with this student about appropriate class behavior, and it seems I need to have another soon, and I am just tired of this student making every class with them difficult. But I’m also aware that my work reputation will likely suffer if say I need a break from this student. Is it worth bringing it up to my supervisor at my next check-in?

    1. Double A*

      I would only ask to have a student moved if they were personally targeting me in a way that made me feel unsafe. I think it’s worth bringing up to your supervisor that you need help with strategies for managing this student; I think there’s a lot more you can do beyond repeating the same conversation again and again. I’ve always worked with difficult students so I have a lot of strategies.

      My first question is, if it’s online, don’t you have tools for muting or limiting the student’s comments?

      Here’s what I’ve found successful with students like this:
      -Recognize them EARLY in the lesson for something positive.
      -Compliment them as often as you can when they show behaviors you do want to see, even if it’s behaviors that seem obvious that they “should” already be doing. They are not already doing them, so you need to reinforce when they do.
      -Give them a job (sometimes not possible in an online setting, but it could be something like time-keeping or giving you reminders).
      -Simply shutting them down kindly and clearly. “Thank you Fergus! We appreciate your comment but need to move on to the next student.”
      -Spell out clearly what you DO need to see from them (this would be great to do in a 1:1 setting). Is it that they need to only comment after X number of other students have had a chance to share? Limit their comments to 1 minute?

      A lot of times kids like this are seeking connection and they don’t understand social cues. So you need to find a way to give them connection and to be really explicit about social cues. One thing I love about teaching kids is that I have no problem being very clear with students in a way that would be awkward with other adults.

      I’m also curious about the student’s age. I would also imagine other students are annoyed by this student so I would watch out for bullying towards the student; that can make a student act out even more.

    2. YNWA*

      I’m a college professor and I’ve asked my department chair to keep students out of my classes. Then she tells the academic advisor and registrar. Now, in the two cases where I did that, one student was getting stalkery and the other was prone to violent outbursts in class which were disruptive to the learning environment and was taking up so much of my time that other students were neglected (that is probably the way you’d want to phrase it in your situation).

      1. JelloStapler*

        I hope the second student was flagged for that and given resources or discipline if they are a violent disruption. I can see that being a Dean of Students issue on my campus and I would imagine could lead up to a conduct dismissal.

        1. JelloStapler*

          (not to say the stalkerish behavior should not also be flagged, I just hope something is being done and the situation is not being rug swept.)

    3. Rara Avis*

      I requested that my own child not be put in my class. :). They were going to definitely have me for 7th and 8th grade because I’m the only one who teaches capybara handling at those levels, but there was another option for 6th, so I asked that they transfer my kid to the other teacher.

      I also had a student moved out of a summer class. He had taken it the year before and been disruptive and uncooperative, and I got the summer admin on board with not letting him repeat.

      But for a regular school year course? Yeah, we don’t get to ask for a student to be removed. We can ask for all sorts of help regarding behavioral intervention from admin and counseling. Does your school have a behavioral management program? Ours is incident 1, conversation with the teacher. Incident 2, teacher contacts the parents. Incident 3, referral to the office.

    5. Irish Teacher*

      I haven’t ever requested that a student not be placed in my class but I know situations where teachers have or where teachers have requested a student be removed from the class and it has not damaged their reputation so long as it’s not an ongoing thing. As a resource teacher, I come across some teachers who are repeatedly asking for students to be removed and that does get irritating but occasionally is not a big deal at all.

      The most competent colleague I have asked not to have a particular student one-to-one because of his tendency to threaten false allegations (he once fell off his chair in my class and “joked” that he could tell the deputy principal I pushed him). I think in this case, most people were more concerned as to how bad the student must be for this teacher not to want to work with him as she is generally one of those who sees the good in even the most difficult students and has them doing exactly as she asks.

      However, I will say that the behaviours the child you are talking about exhibits do not sound that serious. I do know, however, that there are some students who behave in ways that are hard to describe and are more disruptive than they sound. In general, though, talking out of turn, sulking, giving cheek, playing on their phone under the desk and then refusing to hand it over, throwing paper planes, etc tend to be fairly normal classroom misbehaviour and while I do think you could ask for the child to be removed, it is the sort of behaviour that you are likely to encounter fairly regularly so unless there are exacerbating features that you haven’t mentioned, it might be worth asking for support with dealing with the behaviours before you try asking to get the child removed.

      Also, even without disability accommodations, if you think any are appropriate, you can try using them. Some accommodations, like allowing a child to use a fidget toy or take a movement break, will work for students who find it hard to concentrate for long periods of time, even if they don’t have an actual disability.

  54. Kim Possible*

    One my co-workers faked being the victim of a hate crime. It was shocking and upsetting when it happened. Everyone rallied around this person especially because there was a possibility they were target because they work here / it was work related.

    There’s definitive proof it didn’t happen and my co-worker has admitted it in court. They will be sentenced soon for the false police report and for accepting donations under false pretenses.

    I’m just feeling shock and betrayal since I found out. I have today off work except for one meeting but we are all in a daze. Just throwing out there that I wouldn’t mind hearing from anyone who has been through something similar. What was the aftermath like and how did you deal with it?

    1. BellyButton*

      WOW! That is crazy. I haven’t experienced this in any way. What is happening at work? Are they losing their job?

    2. Rick Tq*

      Making a false police report is a big deal but the fraud is even worse, you now can’t be sure if anything they say is true or not or that they will act ethically at all.

      Don’t be surprised if they are fired.

    3. Maggie*

      My community experienced that about 10 years ago and it was extremely damaging to the LGBTQ + community because the person who did it was a member of that community so there was the initial horror of the crime and then all the feelings of finding out it was faked and processing how we felt it may have damaged us living in a red state at that time etc. It wasn’t specifically at work though, but I’m guessing this person might serve time or get fired? The person who committed the crime in my community was sentenced to several years in prison for the faked hate crime. And I was also living in Chicago when the Jussie Smollett thing happened too and there was def a lot of outrage. It’s extremely shocking!

  55. Jascha*

    Any advice on negotiating intangibles with a job? I’ve received an offer, but the hours, while not totally unreasonable, are much longer than I’ve had in previous roles. Between the longer hours and the later start time (but not enough later to give me any useful morning time), I would be losing about 2 hours of my day – every day.

    (The salary and benefits are fine, though on the lower end. I’d have an okay amount of holiday, but I’d be losing a little over a week from what I had at my most recent position. Between that and the longer hours, the overall loss of time is a dealbreaker for me.)

    Any advice on how to broach the subject or handle the negotiations? My main priority is the hours: I’d like to start earlier, work shorter days, and I’m fine with skipping the lunch break (or “taking it” at the end of my day, if it’s mandatory – this is not a position in which breaks need to be taken at specific times, neither legally nor for business reasons.)

  56. Abominable Snow Woman*

    Coming in with two threads today,

    I noticed my husband’s attitude about his job depends on whether he feels like he’s friends with the people he works with. Personally I can’t relate and at a loss for words about what to say to him. Would love to know what you guys think or would say to him.

    1. Bunny Girl*

      I think it can certainly be nice to have a friendly relationship with people that you work with. You’re there for a large portion of your week and if you’re a very social person, it can make the time you are there go by a lot more smoothly and pleasantly if you feel like you are going to an office full of friends instead of an office full of coworkers.

      I’m also not one of those people, like you. I’d rather work in an office of competent people who work well together as a team, that I don’t really need to be friends with. I don’t like blurring my work and personal lives at all, although I think it’s nice if everyone can at least be civil to each other.

      I’d ask your husband why he feels like he has to be friends with his coworkers? Does he not have an active and fulfilling social life outside of work? Does he like what he is doing for work or does he feel like he needs another reason to be there besides capitalism? That might be a good place to start.

    2. Jaunty Banana Hat I*

      I don’t know that I’d want to be friend-friends with everyone I work with, but I definitely want to be friendLY with my coworkers. Sometimes that needs to be enough because people want to keep their work life and social life separate.

      One thing I’d ask–does he have many friends outside of work? Because if he doesn’t, that could be part of why he’s feeling more of a need for his coworkers to feel like his friends. Maybe encourage him to get involved in some hobbies where he’d make some non-work friends.

    3. ferrina*

      I would just listen. It sounds like he’s not looking for advice, and there doesn’t seem like any reason why you would need to give it. It seems like a good time to shrug and recognize that the two of you have different approaches to work, and that’s fine (assuming it’s not impacting your home life much- i.e., he’s not monopolizing conversations with work drama or taking bad moods home, losing jobs, etc.).

    4. GoryDetails*

      Re the relative importance of having friends at work: is he talking about close personal friends, or a more friendLY attitude in the workplace? There are so many levels there. A very sociable person could feel wretched in a workplace that I (and perhaps you!) would find soothing and pleasantly business-oriented. If he’s venting to you, you probably don’t need to say much beyond “That sounds rough,” and maybe “Is there anything you’d like to do about it?” If he’s asking for ideas on how to be more sociable/get invited to happy hour/make other workers acknowledge his mere existence, maybe do some searching through the archives; the issues come up a lot, and from all sides. “My co-workers get miffed if I don’t greet every single one of them every morning” vs. “My co-workers barge into my cubicle ALL THE TIME, how to make them stop?”

      I found this AAM post that explains more about the different types of workplace friendships; might give you more perspective even if it doesn’t necessarily help your spouse. (It’s from a manager who’d been avoiding office friendships and wants to change, but Alison’s answer covers a lot more ground.)

      https://www.askamanager.org/2022/10/should-i-put-more-effort-into-making-friends-at-work.html

    5. Laika*

      I have no advice but I offer commiseration. My partner values something completely different about their job/role in an organization than I do, so it can be tough to support them when they are in the thick of it. Usually I just end us asking more questions and try to make connections that maybe they otherwise would’ve missed (“sounds like you’re frustrated that no one is acknowledging your contributions. but you mentioned earlier that so-and-so came to you for help twice this week, that sounds like she thinks you’re the expert to me!”). Sometimes that leads to a better conversation but not always. Hopefully you get some better answers from other folks :)

    6. ecnaseener*

      Reminds me of discussions from several years ago on this site, I think it was framed as “task-focused vs. relationship-focused” work styles? I don’t remember which specific posts, but there was some good stuff in the comments so try searching those terms.

    7. Diatryma*

      Why say anything? His attitude depends on one thing, yours depends on another. If it’s not causing problems, it’s not a problem.

  57. CL*

    Any advice on managing up vs. letting the person spectacularly fail? My executive-level grandboss is amazingly bad at keeping on top of tasks and remembering past discussions. Where is the line between micromanaging their to dos, calendar, etc. and letting them deal with their own mess?

    1. Ashley*

      Theo Epstein said, “Whoever your boss is, or your bosses are, they have 20 percent of their job that they just don’t like. So if you can ask them or figure out what that 20 percent is, and figure out a way to do it for them, you’ll make them really happy, improve their quality of life and their work experience.” I personally found sometimes it is worth doing this to make my life easier. If my boss is grateful and in the long run I get the recognition for it it can be worth it. If my boss is a tool and a miserable human being, I let them generally be bad at their job and only step in and remind them on big stuff that will impact me or have major company ramifications.
      I will also say I grew into my current role because I kept taking over different sections of my boss’s job over the years as our roles grew and change so it was a great path for advancement for me.

    2. ferrina*

      Depends on how much damage it will do to you. You are under absolutely no ethical obligation to do their job, and unless your role is something where part of your success is making your boss successful (EA, etc), you shouldn’t be expected to do their job.
      That said….
      There are times when it makes sense to do parts of your boss’s job. Here’s scenarios I’ve run into in the past:

      1. You’re working around them. Let’s say you have a project you love, but the boss keeps bottlenecking. In that case you might do parts of your boss’s job in order to keep the project moving. I’ve been known to make ‘first draft- feel free to edit or ignore!’ so that my boss isn’t writing things from scratch (usually a lazy boss will make a few edits to feel like they contributed, you thank them for their “wisdom”, and happily move on to the next part of the project).
      2. You will be blamed for their failures. This is the CYA approach. Figure out what you need to do to protect yourself. Send follow-up emails. Do reminders and have evidence that you tried to remind them about to-dos. Don’t do any part of their job that isn’t about protecting you.
      3. You want to do your boss’s job. In this scenario, you will take all of the responsibility but none of the pay or glamour. I’ve done this- I volunteered to take on parts of my incompetent boss’s job. I always asked permission, got approval, never went rogue….but all the ideas and work were mine. I then took those accomplishments, put them on my resume, and my next job was at my boss’s level (though making 15k more than her…that was sweet karma).

      Option 1 is the only one that is sustainable long-term. Option 2 and 3 are not sustainable and should only be used while working toward an exit. Option 3 can also be politically tricky if your boss thinks you are undermining them. You have to be good at politics to get away with it, and only use your accomplishments to get a different job- don’t attempt a coup, that will never go well.

  58. Dark Macadamia*

    Feeling increasingly demoralized at work. My district is reducing staff which means most non-continuing new hires aren’t going to have jobs next year, but aside from “start searching elsewhere” I feel like the info we’re getting is very vague and often conflicting. I know I should assume I don’t have a job but I would like some transparency about how and when decisions are being made – I’d thought this Monday was a hard deadline for specific decisions but apparently it wasn’t, so we’re back in limbo.

    My principal came by for about 10 min with a random guest earlier this week and neither of them introduced her or explained why she was there. Is she replacing me? evaluating me? prospective parent? WHO KNOWS.

    Also, more general May Teacher Problems, kids are losing their minds and it’s hard to find the balance between “this isn’t sustainable for another month, get it together” and “it’s only a month, how much are they really going to get it together?” lol. I sent out a bunch of parent emails and now I’m second-guessing if I should’ve done it sooner or not at all.

    1. By Golly*

      oh, teachers. This is the worst time, and as a child of a teacher, I remember well the added tension in the years we were wondering whether there would be a RIF notice delivered or not. I have nothing to say except that we parents appreciate you and wish you millions of dollars for dealing with our kids who cannot get it together.

    2. ferrina*

      Sending jedi hugs to you! You have my admiration and sympathy!

      My 6yo decided last week that he was done with school for the year. So it’s not just your classroom! (Luckily he’s an unbelievably mellow kid, so no emails from the teacher)

      For the principal- plan for the worst. That way if anything other than that happens, you’ll be pleasantly surprised; and if the worst happens, you’ll be as ready as you can be. Good luck in your applications!

      1. Dark Macadamia*

        Haha, I had a kid tell me during conferences in APRIL that it’s hard to focus on class because it’s almost summer. It’s 60 degrees and drizzling and we have a FULL QUARTER to go, man!

    3. Hotdog not dog*

      As the parent of a high school student with a severe case of senioritis, I am in awe of teachers right now! I don’t know how they can maintain any sanity at all!

    4. Irish Teacher*

      Ugh, just sympathy on the last point. We finish up in two weeks time and the last week will be summer tests so next week is our last “teaching week.” We had a load of activities last week, ending with a half day and an ice-cream van yesterday and next Wednesday is a sports day, so…I am expecting chaos next week. “Right your activity days are over, now we have to get back to work for two days before ye have a sports day and then two more days of work….” sounds like it might not work too well!

      I don’t have any advice on the first two points but it seems pretty badly organised. Our school had a situation like that (ish) last year. We were seven teachers over quota initially, which meant people on temporary contracts were not renewed (this was really annoying because we lost two really amazing people from our department, though we might be getting one of them back next year as our numbers are now going up and two members of staff in her area are talking about going part-time and she hates the school she is working in this year) and that three people were redeployed (moved to other schools), but we were kept updated on what was going on the whole time. And for us, the redeployed worked out for the best as three people wanted to move schools.

  59. Kayem*

    Why oh why has no one learned anything from the pandemic? My partner came home sick last week. Apparently one of the two bosses (who’s a workaholic that takes whole PTO days and still comes in to work because he’s bored at home) has been coming to work sick, hacking up a lung and coughing all over everyone and everything. So partner caught it despite best efforts and despite all my best efforts, I’m now sick. And of course I’m sick the exact week I have to be on camera all day every day starting at 5am for the big client. I am very unamused. At least I WFH so I can’t make anyone else sick, but it’s hard to present when I can barely croak out a sentence.

    Secondboss’s response to the complaint was to dismiss it because Firstboss just has a lot of allergies, which no one believes due to reasons of disease vectors and timelines. Secondboss is also the same boss who came to work sick last December, hacked and coughed while hovering over peoples’ shoulders, stated that he had “no business coming to work like this,” and got the whole office sick, who then spread it to their families. Turns out Secondboss had covid and he never would have known if I hadn’t decided to test myself on a whim, go holy crap and get tested again, then tell partner who got tested who went holy crap, and told second boss who…blamed partner for giving him covid. Which is not how it works.

    Meanwhile, Firstboss is complaining to the whole department that partner has been out sick and now they’re short-handed and insinuating that partner is too lazy to just suck it up and come to work to spread the filth around like all good hard workers.

    This is the fourth time this year partner has gotten sick from that plague hut. For obvious reasons (including the offensively below market pay), partner is job hunting. Some of his coworkers are stuck in that environment for various reasons and are unwilling to push back. In the meantime, what other than masking, hand washing, and spraying peripherals with disinfectant can partner do to not get sick again?

    I suggested taking a bottle of spray hand sanitizer and spraying both bosses in the face if they get too close but partner vetoed that idea. Also vetoed was the idea to entomb both bosses inside their offices, which I would think they’d be fine with.

    1. BellyButton*

      UGGGG I would get a box of disposable masks, the hand sanitizer, an Lysol wipes and use them constantly while handing out masks to the sick people.

      I used to work for an Asian owned company so using masks was the norm well before the pandemic. I never once got sick in the 8 yrs I worked there.

    2. HigherEdAdminista*

      Can he bring in his own HEPA filter to keep near him? It might not do everything, but it does help.

      I am sympathetic. It pains my daily that very few people seemed to learn from the pandemic, and that the embrace of germs, crud, and “it’s just allergies” seems to be at an all time high. Yesterday, I encountered a man in the hallway who had removed his surgical mask so he could cough more freely in the corridor. I held my breath, tightened my mask, and hurried past as fast as I could.

    3. Alice*

      I vote entomb — but if he still declines that idea, ventilation/filtration and high-quality masks are a good answer.
      CDC finally released updated indoor air quality info last week — it’s actually surprisingly good. I’ll put the direct link in a reply.
      And something really useful in your partner’s setting: IAQ is not *explicitly* about COVID, or at least it doesn’t have to be. No one wants to be breathing in particulate matter! And if the same filter that captures particular matter also captures aerosol particles carrying SARS-CoV-2, bonus.
      Good IAQ reduces the risk of “long-range” transmission, but it doesn’t prevent “short-range” transmission. For that, wearing masks that fit tightly and have good filtration performance is the solution (since you can’t just remove the hazard by telling boss to stay home while sick). That means: N95 (with headloops) are better than KF94 or KN95, which are better than surgical masks that aren’t tight to your face.
      BTW, air filters at your home could reduce (though not eliminate) the risk of partner’s infection becoming your infection.
      Sorry, this work environment sounds absolutely awful.

    4. JelloStapler*

      I laughed out loud at the spray in their faces. I have imagined that very thing with people who are being willfully ignorant and stupid- on a number of topics.

      1. feline outerwear catalog*

        I don’t have proof if this works but I used to spray Lysol all around the office at the end of the day after everyone left when someone was sick at work pre-pandemic, like how you spray air freshener up into the air. That way it airs out overnight with the strong odor, etc.

    5. Quandong*

      If at all possible, partner should never take his mask off indoors, but go outside to eat and drink.

      If people are sneezing a lot, adding eye protection to the mask e.g. goggles with no vent.

      If there’s any chance of working from home when people are sick in the office obviously that would be the best thing to do.

      I’m sorry your partner has such a gross work environment!

  60. By Golly*

    I’m about to start a new position in which 2/3 of staff live on site at a research station. A part of my role is taking the lead in “fostering a healthy living/working community”. I’m putting in some thought at this point about what that looks like in a context where professional/personal boundaries are blurred. What kinds of things would make you feel connected to a community without making you feel pressured to cross professional boundaries you still want to keep? Other confounding factors: most of the staff are not from the area, so really are the primary source of support and community for one another, and we welcome long term learning guests for as short as a week and and long as three months at a time–these folks are generally younger and even less connected to the community that the rest of the staff.

    1. Jaunty Banana Hat I*

      Can you do movie nights/tv show lunches? Something that would give everyone a common thing to reference but that would also be easy to opt-in/out from.

    2. ferrina*

      Things that are easy to participate in at a superficial level. So game nights, ice cream social, movies, karaoke, etc.- no semi-optional deep conversations. That way folks can easily participate without baring their soul.

      Things that have built-in talking points (or early exits). For example, a game night has built in talking points, because you are talking about a game. Ice cream social has an early exit- you can grab ice cream, say hello, and leave. If you are having a meet & greet, maybe have a way to introduce the guests to other specialists in their field. If you are the de facto leader, always have some starter questions in your back pocket to get people talking.

      Offer a mix of times and activity types. Be very clear that everything is optional, and if necessary, discourage people from coming to every activity. Explain that you don’t want to monopolize their time, and no one should be expected to come to every activity! (except maybe you, because it’s your job. And you can say that! I have a similar role and I like to laugh that I’m the only mandatory attendee, but I’m also the only one paid to be there). Have activities that offer food/don’t offer food, have physical components/non-physical components, are about listening/are about participating, etc.
      Good luck!

    3. GreenShoes*

      Is it possible (or needed) to have residents/staff get together to discuss “house rules” for lack of a better term? Things like open a window if you microwave fish… Try to leave work issues at work and home issues at home? Think that first week living in college dorms.

      Otherwise I’d just come up with a bunch of opt in type activities that nobody really has to ‘run’. Like ‘vote for next week’s movie night- theme sci fi’ a do it yourself dinner club (not sure what the meal situation is going to be like).

  61. Oh, the POSSIBILITIES!*

    Last week, I received confirmation that the funding for the grant-funded job I love won’t be renewed. I have a few months to find a new job. I have lost motivation to do my best at work now and I think a couple people noticed that I’m not as cheery as I usually am (I don’t think they know about my job status yet).
    1. How do I stay motivated? Do I tell my coworkers now about my situation?
    2. Is it appropriate to tell people at a conference I am attending for work that I am open to new opportunities?
    3. It feels weird bringing it up while I am representing my current employer so how go I bring it up?
    4. And are there and good sites for nonprofit or social good remote jobs? I know about Work for Good and Idealist.
    Thank you!

    1. Elle*

      I’m sorry. I would let coworkers and others know you’re looking and why. I was in the same situation a few years ago and outreach and networking helped me get a job quickly. Everyone was very kind and happy to take my resume, let me know about openings, etc. That kept me motivated as my job wound down. I could see my coworkers thought highly of me and I had done a good job.

    2. Extra anony*

      In the nonprofit world grant-funded positions are normal, so I would definitely mention to people at the conference that you’ll be looking soon. I think you can segue from discussing your current project to it, something like: “It’s been great to be here and share about X and Y project accomplishments with Current Employer. Our grant term ends in June, so we’re currently wrapping up the project, and I’ll be looking for a new role next semester…” etc etc

  62. Everything All The Time*

    Is there a good way to tell a new boss that the company culture is not what he’s trying to build?
    It’s currently a very team oriented but definitely business/work with 1-2 happy hours a month (and one month full of celebrations because we hit goals) but this guy is trying to implement the “ping pong table in the breakroom” feeling and making plans about that, instead of his actual managing job.
    He’s above me in the hiring structure and part of my job description DOES include hyping up full “events”… but it’s too much, and the constant team building is eating into my productivity and will eat into my IRL life if I let it. I got him to back off for a month by asking if I should prioritize team building events OR my teapot factory designs for the clients, but after a month he was back on the “We are Friends and Family” hype train.

  63. Silver Linings From Dreamland*

    For anyone who’s survived a round of layoffs or team/department downsizing and was in the know about which of your peers were being let go and when, how did you approach their last day/goodbyes?

    My team is fully remote and scattered across the USA so things like stopping by their desk probably won’t be relevant to me but what I’d like to do is send each of them a simple MS Teams message wishing them well. I’ve no idea when they’ll be told, though so I’m interested if anyone has any ideas on when would be the best/most appropriate time to do so.

    Thanks!

    1. Roland*

      Don’t guess on the time. You should ask, either your boss or the person who was cleared to tell you who would be laid off, when the people will be informed. And ideally, double check with someone “in the know” when that time has come and gone to make sure it really happened.

  64. Oh, the POSSIBILITIES!*

    Has anyone tried using ChatGPT or other AI to create their resumes? I am curious but am afraid to share such personal information with it. How did it turn out? Did you need to make many edits? Did the resume pass applicant tracking systems? Were you able to land interviews? And could anyone tell that you used the technology?

    1. Rick Tq*

      If you share personal information with it assume you are sharing it to the world, the LLM is being trained on your input too… I’m not looking for a job but from what I’ve seen you can use the tool for creating snippets but I’d be VERY careful about the actual content and how accurately it reflects your experiences. Having ChatGPT create references to non-existent news reports as part of a response should be a wake up call.

      Remember it is just a computer and Garbage In (including the training data) means Garbage Out.

    2. Laika*

      I write a ton of content for my job, including re-writing and updating staff resumes. I’ve dabbled with ChatGPT for a bit, thinking it might speed up the process, but eventually dropped it. In my experience it creates tons of stuff that passed a quick skim but fell apart immediately under any scrutiny. I’d spend just as long trying to get it to spit out something functional as I would then editing it down to suit my purposes.

      But I write for a living and care about whether my content has a logic and flow. YMMV.

      1. Laika*

        And yes to echo Rick Tq’s point: ChatGPT WILL unabashedly make up lies and then argue with you about it. I’m shocked at the people who just take its output at face value. It’s a language model, not a search engine.

      2. YNWA*

        This. It still requires editing and a critical eye. People are lazy and aren’t doing that so it seems like some sort of magic tool.

        The fact that it can write successful college entrance essays should be the greatest indicator that. College admissions don’t read essays very carefully, they look for key phrases and move on to the next.

  65. Annie Edison*

    TW: mention of weight gain/loss

    What work clothes do you wear when your body size is fluctuating? I’ve gone up/down several sizes multiple times in the past year or two due to a combination of stress and medical changes, and am not sure what size I’m ultimately going to land at once everything stabilizes a bit more. (Current medication is causing some weight gain, and an injury has prevented any exercise for a while now, but hoping to get back to that soon. It’s hard to guess how my body will respond to the combination of meds and exercise though)

    I can’t afford to keep buying a new work wardrobe every time my body shifts, so I’m looking for ideas for professional clothes that would accommodate some shifting sizes.

    I used to do lots of pencil skirts and cute tops, but that combo isn’t terribly forgiving. Right now I’m experimenting with dark jeans and blazers, and jeans with a little stretch allow for some weight fluctuation while still looking put-together.

    Any other suggestions for type of professional clothes I could buy once and wear while my body is still shifting?

      1. Minimal Pear*

        Agreed! I’m currently wearing a VERY nice dress that used to be a little loose on me and now fits perfectly. If you get somewhat loose-fitting dresses and wear them with belts, they accommodate a wide range of weights.

    2. DoodleBug*

      If there are JC Penney in your area and you fall in their size range, I’ve been living in the Liz Claiborne pull-on pants. They come in a few different styles and fabrics. They all have some stretch, and the elastic waistbands are super helpful. I have several pairs ranging from “crisp black” to “black that looks professional but feels like sweatpants” to “jeans” and a bunch in between.

      1. random person*

        BTW, do those have pockets? I’m looking for a replacement for a similar kind that has been discontinued.

      2. Ella Kate (UK)*

        Liz Claiborne still exists? I love those pants but they’re not in the UK any more. Ahh this makes me super happy.

    3. Jaunty Banana Hat I*

      I’m a big fan of tunic shirts + leggings, or dresses with some stretch in the top part/non-form-fitting skirts. But I also work in a pretty casually dressed office.

    4. Bunny Girl*

      I feel this. My favorite pants of all time are the YogiPace pants that I ordered off Amazon. They are stretchy yoga pants fabric that are structured so they look just like typical office slacks. They are only around $35 and have a variety of lengths and styles. They are easy to dress up or down. Mine have lasted forever and through multiple different body changes. I seriously sing their praises.

    5. BellyButton*

      Wrap dresses and cardigans. The wrap dress allows you tighten or loosen as needed. They are my go-to!

    6. Brownie*

      Tank tops, knit/stretchy shrugs and jackets, skirts with drawstring waists, and stretchy dresses are all good. It’s going to sound odd, but look at maternity clothes for good ideas of professional looks in stretchy fabrics. Since above my waist never fluctuates while my lower half does I went for long dresses that are fitted up top and flare into huge full length skirts and constantly get complements on how professional I look in them with no one the wiser about what size my hips are that week. A set of nice tank tops with long sleeved cardigans and varying nice denim jeans with long skirts should be fairly forgiving of size fluctuations while also looking professional.

    8. Three Cats in a Trenchcoat*

      There are a lot of looser cuts of dress (more of a swing style, for example) that can easily accommodate size changes, which could be paired with belts, a jacket or cardigan, etc to add a little more definition.

      I’d also think this would be a good time to lean into thrifting / thredup type places if there is availability in your area / size/ etc. It might make it a little easier to have things like a blazer in two different sizes, while being less cost prohibitive. It can feel so uncomfortable to have a lot of body shifts, having a few pieces that really feel like they fit can make a big difference.

    9. Picard*

      Chicos travelers collection is stretchy knit stuff that looks polished and professional (I’ll put link in comments) Their jeggings are also pretty size forgiving (I go between a 16 and 20 with one of their sizes 3.5)

    10. Moose end Skvirrel*

      Been in the same place as you for about six months. Was thrilled to find a $36 dress on Amazon that I’ve been able to wear even when I fluctuated 20 pounds back and forth. It’s only fitted on top and the rest is swingy, and it’s flattering, comfy, and washable. The brand on Amazon is Hotouch. I got the black one with longer sleeves but there are other sleeve styles and lots of colors. It’s basically thick tshirt material but nice enough for work esp with an open blazer over it. Make sure to read the reviews to figure out sizing.

      1. Moose end Skvirrel*

        ps When I said it was fitted on top, I should also have said it has a lot of stretch, so it’s very forgiving, even on top.

    11. Damn it, Hardison!*

      Banana Republic Factory Hayden pants – loose but not baggy, pull on with elastic waist. Open blazers and cardigans can also accommodate fluctuations while still looking professional.

    12. NoOneInParticular*

      As someone who is pregnant and starting to show earlier than most, I find this info very helpful. (As the only woman on my team in a male-dominated field, I’m going to keep quiet as long as possible.)

  66. HigherEdAdminista*

    I’m being forced to participate in some “mandatory fun” from work this evening and I’m dreading it. It isn’t well planned so it is likely not going to go great, but my boss wants to make sure we are all there.

    There’s nothing I can really do but make a graceful exit as soon as I see an opportunity, but I’m in a little tiff about having to do this at all. It is such a busy time of year… no one is looking forward to this… I don’t see why doing our jobs isn’t enough to be considered a team player.

    1. Rick Tq*

      If drinking is involved I ask for a tonic water with a twist. No booze, looks like any other clear cocktail, and something to sip..

      Show up, be seen, shmooze for a while. Then ‘answer the phone’ for an ‘urgent call’, talk a while, and give your regrets you have to leave…..

  67. Mitchell Hundred*

    Not a question, but yesterday’s “ask the readers” query reminded me of a story I heard second-hand that seemed a bit too off topic to put in those comments.

    My brother (Cesario) has been living in Japan for over a decade now, and several years back my mom (Maria) went to visit him. At one point Maria was showing Cesario some recent photos of the family while his boyfriend (Orsino) was there. Orsino is a born and raised native Japanese person, my entire family is white.

    Anyway, at one point Maria showed Cesario a photo of me. I’ve always been a big hairy guy, but this was shortly after I’d started wearing a beard for the first time. When Orsino saw the photo of me, he was really surprised, and Cesario kind of playfully nudged him and suggested that he grow one. At this, Orsino got very serious and explained at length to Cesario (in Japanese) why this couldn’t happen.

    Apparently the only people with beards like mine in Japan are members of biker gangs or punk rock bands, and if Orsino were to grow one, he would be called into his manager’s office at his respectable, 9-5 job and told that his facial hair had been noticed. And then a bunch of career advancement opportunities would be closed off to him.

    There isn’t really a point to this story, I just thought it was a funny illustration of differing professional norms across cultures.

    P.S. In case anyone was wondering whether dating a man had repercussions for Orsino: Cesario is a trans man, and they broke up a couple of years before he came out.

    1. BellyButton*

      LOL! The first time I went to Japan for work it was one of the first things I noticed about men in the office, there was NO FACIAL hair!

      Once when walking around China with a couple coworkers- one-a 6’5″ black man, one- a 6′ tall Mexican with a beard to his belly button, and I am a white 6′ tall woman wearing 3″ heels, everyone who saw us would jump back and say “gah” which is a sound of surprise. By the time we reached the restaurant, we had a little entourage of people following us in fascination

      1. Mitchell Hundred*

        Nobody’s remarked on my beard when I’ve gone to visit Cesario, but I do get a few stares.

        And yeah, other than foreigners, the only facial hair I saw was a little moustache on a guy on the subway and a patchy beard on a guy in a museum.

    3. GreenShoes*

      It’s not exactly work related, but close enough for a Friday.

      A friend in HS (who was Korean but adopted as a baby in the US) took a trip our Jr. year of HS to reconnect with family. So he’s 16/17ish. Anyway he had long hair at the time and came back to tell stories how he kept getting into clubs and was able to drink (21 at this point in the US) because it was assumed he was out of school (because of the short hair requirement).

      Since he had long hair, nobody questioned him.

  68. Kayem*

    Second question from me: How do others deal with being put into higher roles while still feeling like an entry-level employee?

    I started a new job in 2019 and was quickly promoted. During both those positions, there was a position above me who I always felt like was some sort of on-high deity who knows all the answers and gives all the orders and is uber professional and Knows Their Stuff.

    I’m now one of those people and…I feel exactly like I did when I was entry-level. I feel like I can’t possibly be this high up the food chain because even though I have higher level tasks and manage a rotating bevy of direct reports, I’m still just taking orders and doing tasks like I did before. Only with higher pay.

    Anyway, it’s weird. I’m not sure how I should feel about this. Is this normal? Should I start wearing pantsuits to my (home) office?

    1. pally*

      Sure there’s days where a wee bit of self-doubt creeps in.

      Just remember: Someone thinks you are capable and moved you up to the position where they knew you’d do well. So you have “what it takes”.

      My boss retired and left behind several responsibilities for which he never trained anyone to do. Clearly, he felt neither of his two reports (me and the project manager) were capable. Plus, as this is a small company, no one made him train anyone.

      Well, I stepped up. Took on those responsibilities even though I knew I would probably fail. Surprised myself-was able to tackle them quite well! Impressed the CEO too!

      Can’t help with the pantsuit question. Not one to know much about office attire.

    2. Tio*

      Haha, I fairly recently came to this point, where I say things and people nod and look impressed and then my brain goes, “Wait, are you sure you trust me? This is… kinda important.” LOL

      I try and stay ahead of it by doing as much research and fact finding as I can to prove to myself that yes, it’s not just me, other people agree. So now Google is my on-high deity XD

    3. Lily Rowan*

      I believe that most adults feel like they are faking it most of the time. You’ve got this!!

    4. GreenShoes*

      When this would happen to me I just channeled a previous manager who I thought had good judgement and did what I thought they would do until I gained confidence

    5. Qwerty*

      How much mentoring/coaching are you doing for your direct reports, especially new hires and juniors? I find that really helps underscore how much someone has learned since they first arrived.

      I’m assuming the pantsuit thing is a joke, but wardrobe seriously makes a difference – maybe a knit blazor with some structure that you can put on when you need to feel like a manager? I’m more of a in-office person and I feel like a very different person when I’m in more business-y attire.

  69. Anon123*

    Y’all there is DRAMA in our office. I mostly work from home, so I only recently became aware of this. Apparently, there is suspicion that our Division Director is having an affair with one of my co-workers (this would be her grandboss). I was skeptical at first, but after hearing the examples of incidents that have been witnessed, there has got to be something going on, even if it’s just platonic. Whatever it may be, it seems highly inappropriate due to the power dynamic.

    This situation has made my co-workers so uncomfortable that one of them complained to our Department Director (DD) about it. DD basically told coworker that she doesn’t care and she’s not going to do anything about it unless it becomes a productivity issue (she’s had a long history of not dealing with issues and getting angry with the person who reports it for causing more work for her). It also sounds like these two have been careful not to “associate” with each other while DD is in the office, so DD seems to believe that coworker is exaggerating the issue. But an intern from another department also complained and DD told that person’s supervisor that they would be fired if they didn’t stop “gossiping” and that if the supervisor didn’t tell the intern that, that the supervisor would be fired!

    At some point, DD spoke with the subjects of the rumors, I assume to ascertain the validity of them, but must have also told them who complained about it, so they in turn have been bullying coworker about it. I was shocked to hear the things that have been said and feel terrible for coworker. She is being put in a really bad situation.

    To top it all off, we have an off-site strategic planning session next week at DD’s cottage. Division Director won’t be there (he frankly has very little to do with our department). However, the entire office seems to be so disgusted with how DD has handled this situation, along with her lack of leadership in general, that there are a number of people who are angry with her or outright refuse to speak to her. Everyone is also upset that DD is making us drive an hour away for this meeting. I don’t know how we will possibly get anything productive done.

    1. BellyButton*

      The most upsetting thing is the bullying (retaliation) against the person who complained about it. Is there not HR to step in?

  70. FancyRocks*

    Mental health talk

    I’ve really been struggling the past couple of years with work, and with things in general in the current climate of the USA. I started my first management position in 2021, and I had so much energy and optimism….and I feel like all the life and positivity has just been sucked out of me. I realized I have been a scapegoat for others for quite some time. The people who did that are gone now, but I just feel so exhausted and like I have nothing left. I’m always afraid I’m going to get in trouble for things I didn’t know I was supposed to do. I flinch at the smallest conflict or negative feeling. I feel overwhelmed by my staff’s needs. To top this off, I have a lot of despair just about the state of my country, and what kind of future my little girls are going into.

    Working just feels so useless. Everything is insanely expensive. Any future plans for things like trips or investments have evaporated. I can keep up with bills, but it just seems like it’s getting worse. I have been applying to new jobs where I could earn more, but I haven’t gotten any interviews. I keep trying to do training to improve my skills and marketability, but that feels overwhelming and useless too, and I can’t focus.

    I know I’m burned out, and I have a vacation coming up, but I’m not even really looking forward to that. I want to tell my boss I am overwhelmed and burned out, but I’m so afraid. I don’t know if that will help anything. Everything just feels useless.

    Any advice on getting through a rough season of burnout is appreciated. Thanks for listening!

    1. JelloStapler*

      Can I just say I hear you and what you say resonates? Have you considered seeing a therapist for a bit? Mine has been very helpful as an outlet and getting some tools to help re-frame, figure out what is in my control and put down boundaries.

      I feel the same about our country right now, and what gives me hope is that there are a lot of people pushing back, especially young voters. We just don’t see it because it’s drama-filled click bait.

    2. Spearmint*

      I would highly recommend you seek out therapy (try to find someone on your insurance, even if you have to be put on a waitlist, if you’re worried about affording it). Everything in your life seeming bad and dark is a classic sign of depression. I recently started therapy, but I didn’t think I was depressed because I was holding everything together. But you can be highly functional and still depressed. I’m not saying anything you said is false per se, but this all encompassing sense that things are bad and won’t get better seems like it goes beyond the evidence of those experiences.

      I’d recommend talking to your boss even if it’s scary. The worst that can happen is they brush you off, and then you’re in no worse situation than you are now, but it might make things better. I’d also recommend cutting back on news and social media consumption. Following the news closely sounds like it’s making you miserable without any real benefit.

      1. Jen (they or she pronouns please)*

        Unfortunately there’s a lot of stigma around mental health, so I’d be a bit careful with the boss. I’m not sure what the correct path is, but it’s something to keep in mind. I agree that it might be the best option, if the boss is likely to be neutral or good about it or if you’d otherwise face serious consequences at work.

        Limiting news is a great idea!

    3. Jen (they or she pronouns please)*

      If you can, talk to a therapist or other mental health expert. I’m not from the USA so don’t know how things work over there, but here they are required by law to offer you a one-time starting consultation (covered by insurance so free for you). It won’t change huge things if it’s a one-time thing, but if you only need a pointer in the right direction it can be really helpful. If things don’t get better in the near future, double down on your efforts to find a therapist.

      I know this will hopefully be not needed, but find out the phone number of a mental health emergency hotline, and get really clear with yourself in which situation to call them (before physically harming yourself, for sure, but are there other situations that if you were in them it’d show you’d have lost control?). I hope I’m overworrying here, but in a worst-case scenario I’d hate to not have said something, so again: Get professional help before you physically harm yourself in any way. Seriously.

      Personal tips if the above seems excessive to you: Find things you enjoy, and do them. As much as possible, work stays at work. Give yourself a break using the vacation, no work during that one. If you have energy left, apply to selected positions with polished material, don’t send out mass applications. Consider taking a step back, your health is more important. Make sure you don’t fall for scams pretending to offer you an easy way out, those tend to make things worse. Get sent some internet hugs and an internet cake (or other delicious food if you want it) from this stranger who doesn’t know you but still is certain you have a way out of there, is worried about you, and who thinks you need a break. Good luck!

  71. Calamity Kate*

    Tips for dealing with a supervisor who’s really inaccessible? I’m told my communication needs to be better, but this is coming from a boss who doesn’t read emails or messages, is rarely in the office, and often ignores meetings on his calendar. I don’t know how much more I can reasonably be expected to do without some cooperation on his part. I’m looking for another job but I’d rather leave things on a more positive note.

    1. Seahorse*

      I see you work for my old boss. I’m sorry…
      Do your best, CYA, keep everything in writing, communicate well with anyone else in your department/ other stakeholders, and accept that your boss will never be fair, self-aware, or accommodating.

    2. ferrina*

      Ew. I’ve been there- it sucks.

      I found that when I generally did more emotional management, I got less criticism. When the unreasonable person was placated, my communication skills magically improved *insert eye roll*
      You can also ask your boss. I like to break it into an either/or set up. “I was thinking about providing you weekly updates on all the projects so you have full transparency. If I did that, would you like to have a weekly email, or a meeting with a running agenda?”
      When they don’t show up to the meeting, send an email that has a friendly tone. I found anything that can be construed as even vaguely accusatory can and will be held against me

      Hope you can get out soon!

    3. Rick Tq*

      Does he answer the phone at all? To be honest you should expect to resign to your grandboss if your boss is the Invisible Man.

  72. Emily Elizabeth*

    I’m an early childhood educator leaving at the end of the school year (9 more days!!) and am not sure how to handle this situation – my replacement has been hired and is starting on Monday to train/observe in our classroom. I met her during her interview, really liked her, and tried hard to answer her questions during her interview professionally while subliminally messaging her to work somewhere better. I’m leaving for lots of reason but they all fall under Allison’s, “your boss sucks and isn’t going to change.” How do I set her up for success and create realistic expectations about our workplace (e.g. expectations for teacher output feel not sustainable with the amount of support we get, some families at our private school get special leeway and it just is what it is, our supervisor is a horrible communicator and you just have to corner her in the hallway to get answers) while staying professional? I am aiming to not burn bridges or pass on bitterness – but also personally felt blindsided when I started and had to learn my own coping/workaround strategies.

    1. Just a Teacher*

      It is possible that this person will not feel the same way you do. Don’t poison her. Some people fit in roles better than others.

    2. ferrina*

      I’m a fan of the diplomatic pause.
      “Our parents can be…..energetic. They are, shall we say, vocal in their thoughts on our curriculum. I’ve tried to communicate that we are locked in to this curriculum as per district standards, but this can be an…..ongoing conversation. I can forward some of the more lively communications so you can see what these conversations looked like.”

      Technically none of the words in that statement are negative, but the inflection will make the difference. She should hear the warning in that statement- she may even ask questions. But if she doesn’t want to hear the warning, she won’t hear it, and anything that you way will become a complaint

    3. Early childhood SPED person*

      This sounds terrible, but nearly all early childhood education jobs suck in some way and what you described sounds really frustrating but not super unusual. I’ve had a good experience where someone who knew I was taking over her terrible job followed up with me and shared some things she noticed in my interview that would be positives for coping, for example, I had experience moving from team to team and adapting to different styles, and that I answered a “tell me about a time question” with an example of holding a firm boundary politely. Her positive framing really helped me see that I had strengths to bring to a situation but let me come in without a chip on my shoulder.

  73. Lucy in the sky*

    How long is your PTO?

    I used to have unlimited, a place I’m interviewing at has 15 days, and said eventually they were trying to get 21 days. How does that 15 day about compare to yours?

    1. PeachCube*

      I used to have unlimited at a couple of start-ups I worked at. I get 15 days of PTO now at my new job.

    2. CSRoadWarrior*

      My company starts off with little over 15 days – or about 3.3 weeks or 16.5 days. We are paid on a semi-monthly basis and we accrue 5.5 hours per pay period for a total of 132 hours per year accrued. After 5 years, it increases to 6.5 hours per pay period, 156 hours – 3.9 weeks, or 19 days. After 10 years it increases to 7.5 hours per pay period – 180 hours, 4.5 weeks, or 22.5 days. To clarify, I have only been with my current employer for a little over a year so I still only get 16.5 days.

      Some companies only do 2 weeks to start. I think it varies depending on the policy, but 15 days to begin with seems reasonable in my opinion.

    3. Watry*

      My employer starts you off at 12 annual leave days, with a raise to 15 at the five-year mark. We also get roughly 13 sick days a year once all the time accrues.

    4. ecnaseener*

      Is that one PTO bucket for everything or is sick time separate?
      At my employer, you start off with 30 days but that’s including 7 holidays — so really 23 days, and it’s for sick and vacation time.

    5. Alex*

      I have 15 days vacation, but then also 12 days sick time and 3 personal days. And after three years that vacation will be upped to 20 days.

      I think 15 PTO days is pretty bare minimum if it also includes sick time.

    6. Picard*

      we get
      15 days vacation (20 days after 10 years)
      7 days sick time
      10 holidays

      Each one is handled differently re rollover/useage and payout

    8. ferrina*

      Technically unlimited, but realistically about 15 days of vacation and 5 days of sick (I work flexible hours, so usually the sick time is made up at a different point in the week). Plus about 10 holidays.

    9. Anecdata*

      I currently have 15 single bucket PTO daya (ie includes sick, personal emergencies and vacation) + 5 federal holidays; in previous jobs I’ve had 4-6 weeks PTO with ~10 holidays + discretionary sick leave (although I’m lucky to not need more than 1-2/year). FWIW, the quality of life difference is enough that I’m job searching and minimum 4 weeks PTO is one of my requirements. The 3-wk plan is just too many tradeoffs that I’m not happy about : working while sick, struggling to schedule medical appointments, not visiting my family as much as I wanted, not able to take time off to recuperate after our busy, 60+ hours weeks.

    10. Spearmint*

      13 vacation days and 10 sick days, plus 11 public holidays.

      I’d say 15 is stingy (but not outrageous) if it’s combined PTO, and decent but not great if it’s separate vacation.

    11. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      I’ve had a range.

      My first job was 15 days PTO – but that included sick, vacation, and paid holidays! So after the 8 mandatory holidays I ended up with 7 days a year to use between vacation and sick. It was awful.

      My second job was 12 days vacation and 10 days sick (plus holidays), but the vacation accrued retroactively based on your job tenure the previous year. It was also awful.

      Then I worked for a few universities in salaried positions which offered I think 12+ sick and like 20-24 vacation days, plus holidays (including a 2 week winter closure). That was the best!

      Now I’m once again in a all-in-one PTO system, including holidays. I get something like 24 days a year but once you subtract the 8 holidays it amounts to basically 2 weeks of vacation and a week of sick. Not great, but the pay and other benefits make up for it (mostly).

    12. fhqwhgads*

      20 vacation, 3 floating holidays, 9 federal holidays, 10 sick days, and all weekdays between Dec 25 and Jan 1 are paid holidays.

    13. Aphrodite*

      I work at a California community (two-year) college. We have separate areas for everything. Vacation ranges from 8 days to 24 days annually; we can roll over up to two years’ worth but it must be at our maximum and no more by June 30 each year. Sick time is eight hours per month and can be accumulated without limit. Jury duty has no time limits. We also have bereavement leave.

  74. Masked Up*

    I work as a contractor in a hospital system. Between my last assignment ending and my next assignment starting next week, the hospital system dropped covid mask mandates for most situations.

    I would prefer to mask at work. My significant other is immunocompromised/has a serious covid comorbidity and we’ve decided to mask in public indoor situations for the foreseeable future to try to mitigate his covid risk. He is the last person masking at his white-collar office job. I also have my own reasons: I honestly like not getting every cold/flu/etc. floating around, and I have some lingering anxiety issues from working with covid patients during a surge and high-quality masks make me feel safer.

    I’m worried because I don’t know what’s going to happen when I show up to my new assignment wearing a mask. I haven’t worked in this department before so I don’t know any of my new temp coworkers outside of a zoom meeting I had with the site supervisor (neither of us were masked for it). I don’t know if I’m going to get push back, because I’ve encountered a huge range of attitudes towards vaccines/masks/covid risk/etc. in healthcare. I don’t know how to appropriately explain my reasoning for masking. If anyone has been in a similar situation and has any advice or wisdom to share I would appreciate it!

    1. HigherEdAdminista*

      As someone who is still masking, two things have helped me:

      1. I accept that I may be seen as different/strange/separate from some folks. I am lucky in that no one has given me a super hard time, but there have been comments here and there. I try to just let them go and not let those opinions matter to me.

      2. Don’t overly explain. People who want to push you on it are not likely to be convinced by more details. In you case if someone tries to inform you that masks aren’t required in a nice way, you can say, “Thanks for letting me know. My household and I have decided that masking makes sense for us right now due to loved ones with health concerns,” and then change the subject.

    2. Three Cats in a Trenchcoat*

      As someone who works in a hospital with a recently dropped mask mandate, I think wearing a mask is still pretty unremarkable, if only because so many people were in the habit of it before! It is going to take a while for it not to feel automatic to grab a mask at the door, you know?

      I’ve also found that it differs by degree of patient contact as well – no one comments when I wear a mask during all of my patient encounters, but I frequently take it off for internal meetings or while chatting in the kitchen.

      While obviously this is going to vary a lot by the specific scenario/location you are in, I think you can feel reassured that there was NOT an immediate dropping of masks with the dropping of our mandate, and that wearing a mask is still largely unremarkable.

    3. Jaunty Banana Hat I*

      I think “my spouse is immune compromised” would be enough reason for anyone if you feel the need to explain. It’s what has worked for me (my spouse is also immune compromised), and I would really hope that in a hospital setting, people would understand that. I’ve found that people in general are much less likely to find offense when I explain I’m masking for the sake of someone else.

    4. Expert Paper Pusher*

      I feel like the amount of pushback has diminished over time for people who are wearing masks but not asking others to also put one on. There was a transition period at my workplace where we weren’t required to mask *unless* someone asked us to. That was when the most pushback occurred for me–people seemed to get defensive on the assumption I was going to push them.

      A few weeks after the policy switched to a flat “masks optional”, I went back to masking because of a combo of seasonal allergies and the anticipation of my partner being immunocompromised following surgery. The minimalist approach worked best for me: just wearing the mask without comment unless asked. If someone did bring it up, especially if they let me know it wasn’t needed/required anymore, I just said, “Thanks, I feel more comfortable masking.” The only person who pushed the issue asked if it meant they needed to mask too and dropped it once I said that was up to their own personal preference.

    5. Alice*

      I mask, my workplace no longer requires it, and with some departments of internal customers, I am the only one in the room with a mask.
      People have rarely commented about it. (But I remember every person who has — PSA, sarking “you don’t have to mask anymore” and “I want to see your smile” does NOT tell me anything I don’t know and does NOT make me want to collaborate with you.)
      Good luck.

    6. Lady_Lessa*

      I’m a low masker, and have strong opinions about masking. But, whenever I see someone masking, I don’t care because they are making the decision for themselves.

      Funny, I asked about the mandatory masking at the audiologist, which is connected to a local hospital system. The women at the desk were Not masked but said that I had to. (I complied without hesitation. )

    7. Irish Teacher*

      I don’t really think you need to explain your reasons for masking. It doesn’t negatively affect anybody else, so it is really none of their business. It’s like say…washing your hands more regularly than most people or choosing not to eat junk food or not to drink alcohol, all things people may do for health reasons or in most cases, may also have other reasons. None require explanation.

      People who ask will fall into two categories, those who are concerned about you (that you may be immunocompromised) and those who…well, my suspicion is most of the second group are people who are either very anxious about covid and don’t want any reminder that it hasn’t magically disappeared because they want to forget all about it or else they feel guilty about not masking, so they are defensive.

      There is absolutely no valid reason to object to somebody else masking any more than there would be a valid reason for objecting to somebody wearing flat shoes.

  75. southern interloper*

    Any suggestions for another name for an employee performance plan? This is NOT an improvement plan, but instead is the place for setting goals for the coming year. Trying to switch AWAY from “performance plan” because it’s too close to a PIP.

    3. Flying Princess Hedgehog*

      My institution uses a system called “GPS” for “Goals Performance Success” …. I hate the technology, but I think the underpinning ideas are solid.

    5. southern interloper*

      I should have been clearer – the actual items are called “goals” but any thoughts on the whole document? “Goal plan” might work but it does have more than just goals (it also includes core job responsibilities, competencies, etc.). Thanks!

      1. Interplanet Janet*

        Parts of the federal government call this an IDP – Individual Development Plan

      3. fhqwhgads*

        Our goals for the coming year are part of our reviews from the last year, so we don’t have a term for a goal document. It’s just page 2 of the annual review form. Are yours somehow separated from the reviews? They probably don’t need to be?

  76. PeachCube*

    My department has been micromanaged for the past 2 months. We must fill out a work log of all tasks we work on with start and end times (to the minute) and submit it to our manager at the end of the day. Note: I work in healthcare admin and have 10 years of experience; I haven’t ever had to do this anywhere else.

    I found a new job making 20k more and gave in my notice this past Monday. I stopped submitting my work log on Monday but yesterday I was asked to continue to submit it. I am highly considering cutting my notice short and making today my last day.

    Would love to know your thoughts on what you would do in this situation!

    1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      Oof. Also in health care admin and this is … not how you measure productivity :P

      How detailed do you have to get? Is this like, 10:03-10:12 worked on account#123, 10:13-10:28 worked on account#456, or can you get away with 10:00-12:00 worked on oncology accounts, 12:00-12:30 lunch, 12:30-1:45 worked on physical therapy accounts? I’d probably deal with it for a last week, rolling my eyes the whole time, but be as generic as I can get away with.

      My last hospital started doing weird super-specific scheduling/clocking-in on a time clock system, rather than our original paper timecards, a week before my last day. I was salaried non-exempt and never had OT in 8 years, so my boss and I just put me down for 8 hours a day without worrying about the exact in and out times. But their scheduling requirements meant that I HAD to clock in and out at exactly thus-and-such times, which did not correspond with the timing on the bus I had to take to work, like my bus arrived in the morning either 25 minutes before or 5 minutes after my start time, and the bus home in the afternoon was either 5 minutes before or 25 minutes after my end time, so it was adding a bunch of time to my commute to make sure that I was on time for that last week. But I pretty much just rolled my eyes and did it.

    2. ecnaseener*

      Assuming I wanted to preserve a reference from this manager, I’d probably turn in a log but half-assed – include the major tasks with rounded times, leave out all the little 10-minute things.

      1. HigherEdAdminista*

        This is what I would do as well. I would set aside time at the end of the day specifically to do the log, and log that time, and then disconnect. I wouldn’t give it a lot of effort, but I would do it and if it meant other, more important things, were left unfinished… well, those are the consequences of this system!

    3. Peanut Hamper*

      You work in a bananapants factory.

      You don’t want (and apparently don’t need?) a reference from here.

      Leave today. Sing and dance on your way out like Julie Andrews in The Sound of Music.

    4. Mockingjay*

      Copy/paste from prior logs. Change a few details to what’s pertinent this week. Done and submit.

      I have to submit a weekly log myself. Some weeks are incredibly detailed with separate tasks: 6 hours on the test report, including editing and data analysis. This past month I have been scouring the tracking system to clear up errors and duplicate tasks that the newly added “A-Team” has f*cked up. (These people are their own story.) Every day has the exact same entry: “8 hrs: Updated tasks and resolved duplicate errors.” TGIF!

      Oh, and Congrats on the new job!

    5. Rick Tq*

      Track your time but add 10 minutes of work for every hour for Timekeeping. My guess is they are trying to justify either adding staff or terminating somebody who appears to work but does nothing all day.

      Congratulations on getting out of the Beehive..

    6. Rekha3.14*

      When I worked in the hospital clinical setting, we all did this, too, per patient. I tracked to the nearest 5-minute rounding. it was just part of the job – a pain, to be sure, and yes like a poster later down I did add in the time spent tracking (10-20 mins per day) to the general tasks buckets that weren’t specific patient oriented. since it was always part of the job, I wouldn’t have quit over it. It was also digital. I imagine if it were a piece of paper, I’d be less inclined to think they were using it, since to do some someone’s got to transcribe the data before analysis and no one has time for that (I presume!).

      I’m not exactly sure what they were using the data for, in our department. I don’t mind collecting data if it’s going to be useful.

      And for me, it actually helped me focus and stay on task. When I find myself wondering why it felt I was busy all day and couldn’t think of what specifically I did, I time track for a while (not necessarily to assign to a patient).

      If I loved my job otherwise, it wouldn’t be likely to make me look elsewhere. But maybe it was time you did if your value is 20K more than your salary; this may just be the straw that broke the camels back for you. Congratulations on the new job!

  77. Watry*

    I have been in a new job three months and had a grand total of four hours of training. This cannot be fixed by me or the person who is supposed to be training me. How on earth do I keep filling nine hours a day with only one job duty that takes absolute max 15 minutes? I read a lot but even I can’t read 45 hours a week.

    1. Sunshine*

      Is there any training relevant to your job or industry you can seek out online? HubSpot, LinkedIn, and Google all offer free courses and trainings on various topics, I believe.

      1. Watry*

        That’s a good idea, so I did some looking. Everything industry-related is only relevant to Llama Groomers themselves, and I’m in Grooming Support. I thought about learning to use Excel properly but couldn’t find a training in Excel 07, which is what we’re running.

        1. Alice*

          I mean, if you actually want to learn Excel 07, I’m sure that the Internet Archive has scans of print books about Excel 07’s cutting edge features ;)

      1. Watry*

        I don’t have any. :) I’ve been reached out to a couple of times by other units as I have a lot of experience with our specialized software–that’s why I got the job–and I’m easier to reach than my trainer, but either getting them the info they need takes five minutes or less, or I can’t get it for them because I don’t have all my software accesses yet.

        1. Watry*

          Er, any direct coworkers, anyway. Anybody I might be able to help doesn’t have time to tell me how to help or I don’t have the clearances.

    3. Jen (they or she pronouns please)*

      Is there anyone who’s a supervisor that you could ask? If anything, ask for a timeline for your training and whatever other stuff still needs to be done (you mentioned something about lacking software access), and tell them what you did so far. You might find out there’s something you can do that wasn’t immediately obvious to you, or that the trainer is skipping stuff, or other things that give you more to do.

    4. just another queer reader*

      This sounds concerning.

      Do you have contact with your boss’s boss, or someone else who’s at a higher level?

      I imagine that they’d want to get you the tools you need to work more than one hour a week.

      That being said, your Excel 2007 comment makes me think this workplace might not be super functional. If that’s the case, maybe just enjoy it while it lasts?

  78. FullTimeOrContractConfusion*

    I feel like I may know the answer to this, but I’d love to hear other perspective just in case.

    I’m currently in a FT role with my company. The pay is alright, but in terms of the market, I could earn 10-15K more (I’ve gotten to final rounds of roles with this posted salary). In terms of the work, it’s a bit chaotic but manageable – with a mix of busy and down time, and I loved the independence that came with WFH. That being said, recently they’ve instituted a lot more procedures that are micro-managing (which makes me upset and increase my anxiety), and there is an overall lack of communication.

    A hiring manager I’d interviewed for and gotten to the final round of another position recently reached out. He has another position on his team he really wants me to interview for. It’s WFH, amazing benefits (7+ weeks vacation), and is higher than my salary, and potentially 15K-20K higher than my salary with upcoming yearly raises that are guaranteed. The catch that it is a contract position, and it’s up in the air if it could be permanent after the contract – but it’s a possibility. The work itself is interesting and aligned with what I’m interested in. It doesn’t make me jump up and down with excitement, and isn’t the most cutting edge, but I’m mostly okay with that.

    My immediate reaction is that it’s ludicrous to leave permanent employment for a contract, but I’m curious what others think. The perks are tempting, and with things changing in my current place, I’m wondering if I should take the opportunity. Happy to answer questions as I didn’t want too many details in here initially.

    1. Sunshine*

      I think it depends on how hard it is to find jobs in your industry, but if it’s relatively easy, I say go for it. Hopefully you’ll know far enough in advance if you’ll have to job search after the contract is up, but it sounds like a great opportunity and it’s a good sign that the hiring manager sought you out.

      1. FullTimeOrContractConfusion**

        Good question!

        I’d say positions at this salary are semi-common. I’ve been interviewing on and off for about a year, and haven’t gotten any offers, but I’ve gotten to a lot of final rounds. So I wouldn’t say they are handing out jobs :\. I’m hoping this role would make me more competitive, but hard to say with the less ‘cutting edge’ use of technology.

    3. retired3*

      I once really needed a job and had accepted a permanent job I wasn’t crazy about. I was offered a 9 month temp job with the state. The HR folks said most people started that way…I worked for that state for almost 20 years. Ask about how they have handled this in the past and get any other info you can about the employer and this kind of employment. I was glad I took the risk, but I am a risk taker.

  79. Scorpio*

    I’ve been in my B2B sales role at my current company for 6 years. I’m looking for a new role because of so many things that are wrong at this company, and I haven’t been able to accomplish much other than learn industry “plumbing”. I truly feel my boss just doesn’t know what he’s doing. After 6 years I should have learned and accomplished (and sold) so much more but even my colleague, who has 10 years’ experience on me, agrees that our boss is out of his depth…maybe I am too, at this point.

    While I’m grateful that I didn’t lose my job during the Covid lockdown, those years were profitable for us, as they were for other companies in our industry. I’d like to think I’m an effective salesperson but I feel like a place-holder. I know it’s time to move on, I just don’t know how to craft a resume to showcase what little I’ve done.

    Now here comes the vent…

    1) My boss (also the owner of the company) micromanages and won’t give us titles – at any other company I would be called at least “Regional Manager”, but I wear lots of hats, as our company is only 5 people and we sell nationwide.

    2) He likes to call Every Single Shot. If I find a lead, he demands to know the contact info and reaches out himself to the prospective account. And then he blows it because he doesn’t know the sales protocol in each state (again, we’re a national company.)

    3) We’ve NEVER had a general sales meeting with the whole team. Not at the home office, not even a video conference. Only 1-on-1 phone calls between him and sales actors. I have no solid knowledge about the state of the company or how my counterparts are doing professionally, other than an occasional call.

    4) It’s 2023, we sell groovy things, and we don’t have a website. Enough said.

    5) He doesn’t pay his bills. Third party vendors call me 2-3x per month, because he doesn’t pick up the phone when they call him. I’m not a partner so I can’t say a word to them.

    6) Lastly, NO RAISE, NO COMMISSION and NO BONUS since I started six years ago. traight salary, and on the low side. I joined the company 6 months after it started, and my boss tells me I’m the best salesperson in the company, but I have no numbers to compare myself to.

    Thank you for letting me ramble on, any advice is appreciated.

    2. CSRoadWarrior*

      Leave as soon as you can. Your boss clearly does not know how to run a business. All of the 6 points above are not red flags, they are red flags on fire. Sooner or later, the business will go under. I am surprised it is profitable, especially during the pandemic. Most businesses would be operating in the red at this point if they did these things.

      Start looking, and be picky about your next job. As soon as you get an offer from a great employer and sign the offer letter, put in your notice, do enough to get by during your notice period, and then leave. Don’t think twice. Just do it.

  80. Tattle tale*

    I informed on a coworker to my boss that she was job hunting. I don’t particularly like this person, and when I heard she was I terrifying with a close competitor (it would be bad for us if she moves there and gave up company info) I tipped off our boss. Boss confronted her about it. Should this get back to her that I informed what are the worst social consequences I’m facing?

    1. Sunshine*

      Dude, this was a jerk move. People go to work for competitors all the time and manage to do so without jeopardizing their integrity. You will probably, justifiably, be seen as a snitch and will not be privy to the details of your coworkers’ private lives if word gets out.

      1. HigherEdAdminista*

        I agree. You will likely alienate many of your coworkers and I hope you are never job searching and counting on any of them to be a reference for you!

    2. Alex*

      Yikes. Why would you do that? Yeah I’d expect that anyone who found out would stop trusting you with anything.

      I’d step back for a second and see how your workplace is affecting your view of things because none of this sounds healthy (the snitching, your boss “confronting” someone about doing such an ordinary thing as interviewing for a new job).

      1. WellRed*

        Yes. Time to reflect on why you felt a need to “inform” on a coworker at all and whether your workplace is so unhealthy and has swept you up into warped work think that you think it’s normal for a manager to confront someone over job searching. Surely you are not an indentured servant. Take a few days off to get some distance.

    3. Rick Tq*

      And (responding to Sunshine) sometimes when they go to work for a Competitor the situation ends up in lawsuits. We have sales people come and go from my employer all the time but we have gotten into lawsuits for defamation and theft of company secrets before.

      1. Sunshine*

        Maybe so, but that’s super not your problem. That’s for the company to handle if and when it happens. Not liking someone is no excuse for sabotaging their livelihood.

      2. Not Perry mason*

        Defamation has nothing to do with working for a competitor (unless you are really badmouthing your former employer, or something very exceptional like that)

    4. Peanut Hamper*

      This is not good.

      Notice your wording: “This would be bad if…she gave up company info”. But that hasn’t happened. You (and your boss, who sucks–people leave jobs all the time; you can’t just chain employees to their desks) have basically convicted this person who hasn’t actually done anything wrong. And all because…you don’t like her?

      And does that even make sense? If you don’t like her, why not let her go, so you don’t have to deal with her? This was just a petty, immature move, and once word of this gets out (because there is a nonzero chance that it won’t; people are smart and can usually figure this kind of stuff out), that is how you will be viewed: petty and immature.

      This is not how mature, responsible adults behave.

    5. Tio*

      Pretty much everyone goes to a competitor – where did you expect her to go? Was she supposed to change career paths every time she wants a new job? And to someone who would “confront” her – that doesn’t sound like “We heard you’re unhappy here and we’d like to retain you, how can we do that”, that sounds like he was aggressive. Either she signed an NDA, which she should adhere to, or she didn’t, in which case it’s not anyone’s problem what she does with the info, but telling on her was a jerk move and i hope she gets out of there quick.

      1. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

        > Either she signed an NDA, which she should adhere to, or she didn’t, in which case it’s not anyone’s problem what she does with the info

        “Info” as in company info? Even if there isn’t a signed NDA, it is questionable at best to divulge company information to a competitor. Obviously there will be some things that can be shared freely but some things that shouldn’t.

    6. WantonSeedStitch*

      I hate to say it, but if it does get back to her, any consequences you receive are ones you should have seen coming. This was a really, really bad move. When you find out that a coworker you don’t like is planning on leaving, you break out the champagne at home and daydream about writing “GOODBYE AND GOOD RIDDANCE” on the cake at their going-away party. You don’t tell your boss.

      This action speaks badly. I’m not sure whether it speaks badly of you personally, or of the overall culture of your office (I’m thinking about the letter from the person who bit a coworker, basically driven to extremes of behavior because that was the norm in a very toxic work environment).

    7. Quandong*

      I imagine the worst social consequences arising from your poor decision would be that you’re shunned by coworkers, and some of them may be very angry with you and refuse to work with you anymore.

      You might consider some self-reflection to work out how your dislike of this coworker led you to take this action. Perhaps your workplace has an EAP you can look into?

    8. Nope.*

      Seriously? Do you want a cookie and a head pat? That was horrible and petty. You need to do some self reflection about why you thought that was okay.

  81. NoSoCal*

    I’m failing as a new supervisor – Or at least that’s what I think. Some of my staff are constantly upset with me. Some yell at me and threaten to go over my head. (I’ve had to report some of this to my manger and upward because it is honestly just….too much.)

    Personally, I’ve invested a lot of time and training to be open minded, supportive, flexible, accommodating, and even directive (where needed). I take all the comments with grace, appropriate redirection, and reflect on content to try and understand from the employee view.

    But with a few, it is endless. I spend so much of my time trying to deal with the negative that any new positive idea is…well, thrown by the wayside.

    Has anyone been in a similar situation? It really is starting to wear on me professionally and personally. I have a small goal of staying at the entity for 2 1/2 more years, but the cost might be more than one can bear.

    1. Decidedly Me*

      It sounds like you may be being too accommodating. Some of the behaviors you’ve described just aren’t ok. It’s good to reflect on feedback, but not every piece of feedback is valid. If a team’s metric is for each person to complete 5 worksheets per hour and some person says that 5 is too much and they should only have to do 1 per hour, you need to address that and not just approach it as understanding from their view that they wish they didn’t have to do as much work (don’t we all!).

      If you’re always accommodating, even when you shouldn’t be, you set a wrong expectation in the minds of the people you’re supervising. If you allow people to yell at you, they’ll keep doing it. I would chat with your manager on training for being more assertive, how to shut down poor behaviors, etc.

      1. NoSoCal*

        Thanks!

        Some of it is a combination of a lot of turnover of other people in this position. The more I learn, the more I see there have been struggles and issues for a while (before me, during me). I’m trying to balance listening to understand and sorting out what I perceive to be some areas that have been non managed for so long that they struggle with change.

    2. WellRed*

      Wasn’t there a few letters just this week about spending too much time and effort on certain employees?

    3. Tio*

      What (in general terms) are they upset about and why?

      There’s a difference between people being upset that they have to use a new program the whole company is initiating, vs people being upset because you came in and decided to ban headphones for your department when the others can use them. One is valid to be upset about, one is a company mandate and they need to deal with it.

      But they can’t deal with it by yelling. If someone starts yelling, they need to be told that is not acceptable nor professional, and possibly written up or sent home if they continue. You need hard lines there.

      If they want to go over your head… loop your boss in, let them know “I made XYZ changes and people are upset, and they have threatened to complain to you, so if they do this is your heads up.” Then your boss can advise if they want you to handle it differently, or they can be prepared to shut those people down if they think you’re on the right track.

      1. NoSoCal*

        A group of them seem to be upset about enterprisewide expectations that it seems they have not been held to for a few cycles. No headphone bans here!

        I did speak to my manager after the yelling and I may or may not have had HR involved. Unfortunately I work for an organization that can have a lot of red tape on these type of issues so your left “dealing” in between. Wish they could change that.

    4. WantonSeedStitch*

      You have to lay down the law if people are actually yelling at you. “Yelling like that is not acceptable. I expect cordial, professional communication between everyone on this team, including between myself and my reports, and that goes in both directions. I understand you have frustrations you want to discuss, and that’s fine, but I would like you to take some time to cool down before we discuss them.”

    5. Water Lily*

      First, I’m so sorry you are having to go through this. If this is your first time supervising people, let me just reassure you that being a manager isn’t always like this.

      Some of the behaviors you describe are seriously not ok. You have every right to _not_ be treated like this. Like all the advice here, I think it’s fine to indicate that people can be upset at something but they can’t be disrespectful or hostile to you.

      I agree with “decidedly Me.” Not every piece of feedback is valid. Also, to continue Decidely’s metaphor, it would be wise to get curious about why folks are having trouble with the goal or the policy.

      Here’s something else I sense: There’s something else going on here. This behavior is seriously not normal. Are you replacing a beloved manager? Are they trying to run you out because they want someone else to be a manager? I’d try to find a way to see if there’s another story running in the background.

      Also, document everything.

      Also: this happened to me once, but it was from peers, not really direct reports. I ended up quitting. On my last day, my lone ally and friend walked me to my car and told me about something called “bonding by bullying.” It’s possible that there’s nothing wrong with you at all, but for whatever disturbing and unholy reason, a bond has been formed by those who are being awful. It’s not you, it’s just that this “bonding by bullying” has become normalized.

      I don’t know how to break that cycle, but if it gives you any peace, I’d bet my next paycheck there’s nothing really wrong with you or your style. Instead, you may just be among some really toxic people.

      1. NoSoCal*

        I think there’s more going on to this, too! Some of these behaviors have started before my rule, and I have suspicion that the last two people in my rule left in a hurry because of some of the issues. When they arise, and make sure to loop in my manager and document.

        I think I’ve done the best I can possibly to stay calm in all the moments, but boy, this is a lot to take at times. It seems to be concentrated in one area. This afternoon I had a great interaction with one of the offsite staff and left off a day and a very pleasant note.:)

    6. Turingtested*

      Being yelled at is a huge thing for me. I calmly say “I’ve never spoken to you that way and the next time you raise your voice to me it will be the end of your job.” FYI lowering standards of conduct is never a reasonable ADA accommodation.

      Depending on the person I’ve had the frank conversation of “you’re often upset, you often complain, do you really want to work here? I support whatever you decide and it won’t make me think less of you personally or professionally.”

      It’s also ok to just cut them off. “John I’m busy today, need to drop off.”

  82. Lalalala*

    I had a great interview with the hiring manager at a company 3 days ago and have my 3rd round interview next week. During my phone screening last Friday, the recruiter said the other candidates they were talking to were about in the same/next round stages as me. Then I went on LinkedIn and saw they reposted the job posting 2 days ago! Is this common? Is this a bad sign?

    1. ecnaseener*

      Could be nothing! Probably it’s someone’s job to repost every LinkedIn posting to keep it fresh until it’s actually filled.

    2. Decidedly Me*

      We keep refreshing our ads until a position is filled. There is so much that can happen during the hiring process! We can have someone in late stages that we love, but they can accept another offer in the meantime, reject our offer, have a major red flag come up during references, etc. If we didn’t keep reposting until it was actually filled, we’d have to start fresh every time something happened to a late stage applicant.

  83. Call Sign: Shenanigans*

    Shout out to my work despite being down 3.5 staff members.

    I just want to say I really love where I work. For the first time in a long time, if not 20+ years of non-profit work – I’ve found my place. We’re down a boss and two co-workers, leaving two of us to manage the development team with two more months in the fiscal year (we’re ahead so that’s good). The CEO, COO, CHR have assemble a responsive support structure, been front/center in the transition, added 10% pay for stress and increased work although knowing we can’t reasonably do three jobs between the two of us.

    It’ll be two months before we get a new boss and probably another two months before we fill the two co-worker jobs. But we’re being supported and cared for. It’s a good feeling. Hope it goes through the full transition to the end of the year.

  84. Just a Teacher*

    I am considering taking a school principal job across the country that I am very excited about. There are pros and cons but my biggest concern is how long I would be there.

    Backstory, I was up for a clinical professorship job but the team told me that a tenure track position would be opening that I was a much better fit for in the fall. That job would start the 24-25 school year. They said that it was going to be exactly what I was looking for and that while they knew they had no claim to me, they hoped that I would consider staying at my current position and applying when it open in September.

    So, I applied for this new position and it seems like a great step forward for my career but I would still rather have the professor position. It is not a guarantee. Many things could happen between now and August 2024.

    Can I take this principal job know that I could leave in 12 months?

    1. Peanut Hamper*

      Eh, principals come and go all the time.

      But honestly, you like this position and think it would be a great step in your career. That’s your bird in the hand.

      The professorship may never come through. A better candidate than yourself may apply. That’s your two birds in the bush.

      Take the principal job.

    2. Irish Teacher*

      Our school had a principal leave after…about 3 months. That was less than ideal but I wouldn’t say he should have refused the job in our school because something might come up.

      I think you should take the job, but…I think you should refrain from making too many changes to the school until you have some idea whether you are going to stay and you should make copies of any information so that you can pass it on if you leave. The principal we had arrived in the school, decided we should change from 40 minute to hour long classes, resource should be changed from primarily withdrawal to primarily team teaching, class tutors should be appointed to all classes and possibly one or two other things I can’t remember, promised us that there would be training on things like the role of the tutor in September, then left before that. So he signed off on a load of changes and left the deputy principal in the role of acting principal, having to oversee a number of changes while taking on a role that wasn’t his job.

      Mind you, I thought that was too many changes in one go even when I believed he would be there to oversee them and arrange training, etc.

      I’d say take the job and use the first 6-9 months to see how things are working. If you leave, then whoever takes over will be free to implement any changes they want and if you stay, you’ll have a better idea of what should be done after a year of seeing how things are working. Obvious exception for things that are genuinely not working, but I mean for things that are just a matter of preference such as hour long versus 40 minute classes.

  85. I loved my team*

    Apparently my approach of ‘just wait it will work itself out’ has not worked and I would appreciate any thoughts/suggestions.

    I’m a collaborative person who had built a strong team with an ‘all for one one for all’ philosophy. We were a well-oiled machine. Through a series of mergers/reorgs/downsizing I’ve landed in a department that does not embrace the team philosophy, which has left me feeling unsettled. I originally thought that after a while the team I was moving into would move a little more towards the team mentality but that has not happened.

    There are two of us at the Executive Director role, and the other ED keeps working in his silo. He does not share information and it feels like he’s just going to keep doing what he’s always done as though I am not there with really no plan to loop me in. Some of my work has shifted to him and some of his work has shifted to me, but he isn’t passing new work over to me that should be and isn’t asking me questions on the new-to-him parts.

    Our boss is extremely hands off with the day to day and has told me he won’t in between the other ED and I. Boss told me this proactively, I did not say anything to him about my friction with the other ED, and in fact when boss asked how it was going with the other ED I said the other ED was great.

    I’ve been at my company for nearly 20 years. My old unit was disbanded and what was left of my old team was merged into the team we are on now, and restructured so I am not the boss of my old team members anymore the other ED is. The other ED had been my boss 8-10 years ago when I was just a Manager. My old team had regularly worked with the other ED as my old department had a dependency on his department’s work. My husband thinks other ED and new boss are both scared or intimidated by me, although I try to be open, welcoming and friendly. It’s become apparent to me that the other ED is a manger and I am more of a leader/manager. Other ED is male and probably 60-ish, I am female early 50’s. Frankly it feels like the other ED is beaten down.

    1. WellRed*

      I can see why you are unsettled though I’m a tad unclear on a few things: are you both exec directors of the same team (which seems redundant)? Do you have direct reports yourself? Have you proactively reached out for a meeting a with other ED about how this is supposed to work? Absent other information I’m worried about your position at the company.

      1. I loved my team*

        Yes, we are both EDs on the same team reporting to the same VP, and I agree that it’s redundant. I now have only 2 direct reports, the rest of my old team now reports to the other ED who has 3. I’ve taken a rather soft approach with the other ED, since I’m coming into his department. When we do talk, which is not often, he’s friendly enough but guarded and deflects. One of my former direct reports who is now reporting to him told me it’s hard for her to know when he’s being serious and when he’s being sarcastic.

  86. A High School Teacher*

    Just a story from me that just happened. I’m leading a study hall. All my grading is done so I’m a bit bored. I meant to g-chat a small group of people how a kid just farted next to me but I pretended not to hear anything. I accidentally sent it to my entire faculty chat of 30+ people instead. Whoops.

    1. Peanut Hamper*

      LOL!

      This reminded me of when I was teaching ninth grade years ago and a kid came up to my desk to use the pencil sharpener. He sharpened his pencil, started walking back to his seat, and without missing a beat, lifted his leg as he walked past a certain girl’s desk, farted in her general direction, and just kept going back to his seat.

      I questioned him about it later and it turned out that he had a huge crush on her.

      Oh, Brandon, where are you now, and did you ever realize that chocolate works better than farts?

    2. Dark Macadamia*

      Haha, I love busting kids for using Teams chat during class and then turning around and messaging the teacher Teams chat

  87. Freddie Mercurial*

    My manager of my new department is highly ineffective. Not the worst manager I’ve had but it’s still frustrating to navigate doing my job well without managing up too much. No productive discussions have been had, and instead we’ve been lost in the weeds.

    My job is primarily project based and annual reviews and goals will be coming up soon. How do I develop my own goals when I don’t know the department goals and am unlikely to get a satisfactory answer?

    1. GlazedDonut*

      Can you ask for the department goals? Work with a colleague who has a similar role as you?
      I’d just bring it up to your manager in the next one on one. “I’m having a hard time setting my annual review goals. I know I’ll be working on X and Y. What kind of metrics or improvements would you like to see?”

  88. Melisande*

    We’ve just bid a fond farewell to my boss of six years, “Alex”. We are a team of specialists, each advising organisations in, let’s say education & training on, let’s say, llama care. Meanwhile alongside us, another team, reporting directly to our grandboss, “Jay”, deals with, let’s say, public policy on llama welfare.

    Alex has been a great boss, a calm problem-solver who managed with a light touch but was always available if I had a dilemma, felt overloaded or needed advice, and always great about celebrating our achievements.

    By contrast, Jay is really only interested in the policy side, spends his time sitting on panels at industry conferences, going to government summits, presenting research findings, etc.

    We now have a 3 to 6 month minimum gap before Alex’s successor is likely to be in post: our sector is notoriously slow to recruit, and Jay has indicated that he’s happy to save some money in the interim. We are now to report directly to Jay until that gap is filled.

    Jay is perfectly pleasant but not particularly warm, my only interaction with him has been briefing him on education-related policy topics. I cannot imagine ever going to him for help or support. The many small but important issues we juggle with daily – changes to course funding, the retirement of a key school leader, a short notice volunteer celebration – are of no interest to him.

    Alex’s handover has been exemplary and we all know how to do our jobs. But I’m feeling rather desolate looking into a future without an engaged and supportive boss to turn to. How would others approach this? (And no I don’t want Alex’s job.)

  89. Noshoesforyou*

    I have a question about a job offer I got they said they would provide everything I needed. But I needed to buy special shoes. I said I already have those shoes. I was told they were the wrong brand. I had to buy that specific brand of shoes or I could not work there. This seemed off to me. Is this some kind of scam they are running? Or am I overreacting?

    1. Rick Tq*

      Can you dig deeper and find out exactly what the differences are between your shoes and the specified brand? Are all the other clothing items provided the same brand.. If the company wear is all Nike (for example) they won’t want you coming to work in New Balance shoes….

      I can see requiring a specific brand if there is product endorsement or advertising money coming in to that company.

    2. Warrior Princess Xena*

      Is this for product advertisement reasons (if you work for our store, you must own our store brand) or safety reasons (we require people to use our certified shoes because otherwise if a knife falls the shoe won’t protect your foot)? For safety shoes, a lot of places will have a list of approved brands and shoe types, so saying ‘you must get shoes from a specific brand’ isn’t necessarily a scam.

      To me whether you are overreactive or not would depend on the cost of the new shoes. If it’s $40-60, then I’d accept it as a cost of working at a place. If they’re more like $300, I’d push back a little and ask for the company to spring for it.

    3. Roland*

      Agreed with other comments more info needed rn – but if they start saying they’ll send you a check and then you buy the shoes with that money… Then it becomes a scam for sure. Also the likelihood of a scam is higher if this job was suspiciously easy to land.

  90. Sleeping Sun*

    For those who gave advice in my question last week about remaining civil with a coworker, thanks a lot for taking the time to give me tips and strategies.

    Just letting you know… the offer I was expecting arrived this morning, and is way better than I thought would be, starting with a salary 36% higher than what I asked for (45% over my current one) and really good benefits.

    So, Fergus will be out of my nerves in a couple of weeks and with the timeline I was given will be able to take a week off between jobs.

  91. Syl*

    Someone I work with recently returned after suffering a head injury. They yell at me constantly for asking benign questions. So far I have met with HR and management but they have done nothing. The guy has not apologized.

    Is this reason enough to quit?

    Like I don’t like being yelled at and feeling unsafe at work so I just want to leave. One of the huge reasons I joined this team is because it was no drama and copacetic. If a work environment becomes toxic it’s better for me if I just leave.

    1. RagingADHD*

      The only reason you need to quit a job is that you don’t want to work there anymore.

      If you don’t have anything else lined up, it might be smart to just avoid this guy as much as possible while you’re looking. Maybe you could start asking your manager questions instead, because you don’t want to get yelled at. If the manager has to do some work, they might be more inclined to deal with the problem.

    2. ecnaseener*

      Sure, it’s reason enough to quit if that makes sense for your situation. I mean, every reason is reason enough :) but yeah if HR and management are failing to address it, you’re on solid ground concluding it’s not going to get better.

    3. Possible 110 of 100*

      Not everything is toxic, traumatic or harmful. Sometimes uncomfortable things happen and that’s it – they’re uncomfortable or not pleasant. Being yelled at isn’t a security issue. Are you conflating their head injury with their inability to be a safe coworker? Is that your judgement or a stereotype?

      Perhaps the employee is on a temporary plan, working with HR and management to get through a traumatic brain injury situation and they can’t share that with you. Your feedback reports may have helped them do work that you’re not privy to.

      Yelled – meaning they screamed, or simply raised their voice? Perhaps they can’t hear you anymore? Maybe your constant questions are more annoying now than they were prior to their injury. Maybe your questions aren’t benign like you think they are. Maybe you’re not accommodating their need to return to work in a peaceful manner and your questions hamper that return. Maybe they don’t know they need to apologize because they see themselves as being annoyed by you and not needing to assuage your emotions. And yes, they could be different after a brain injury and you need to be more understanding. It’s ok to think of them first.

      I just had it out with the CFO. They yelled a bit. You know what I did? I went to them to figure out what’s going on. I talked to them. We recognized our issues and now we’re good to go. Have you talked to the coworker instead of complaining about them to HR?

      You have to give some latitude here. It’s not fair to quickly judge the situation for what it’s not until you work out the angles. If quitting is your first response, that’s you, not them.

      1. Peanut Hamper*

        Yeah, this is just bad advice. As RagingADHD said, the only reason you need to quit a job is that you don’t want to work there any more.

        Syl, if you don’t want to work there any more, you don’t have to. Find another place to work. That’s an okay thing to do.

        Not everything is toxic, traumatic or harmful. Sometimes uncomfortable things happen and that’s it – they’re uncomfortable or not pleasant.

        Yeah, but that’s not for you to decide, is it?

        Nobody deserves to be yelled at while they are at work. Nobody.

        It’s ok to think of them first.

        But it’s also okay to think of yourself first. This is a job, not a family. If circumstances change and you’re no longer happy working there, you are free to move on.

        And quite frankly, this kind of blame-the-victim attitude is not helpful, either. In fact, it’s complete nonsense. (Syl said she “talked” to HR; you said she “complained” to HR. You said she “quickly judged” this situaiton when in fact we have no idea how long this has been happening. Your biases are clear.)

      2. Jen (they or she pronouns please)*

        Assuming the yelling does happen, a workplace that is okay with yelling (in any capacity, other than to warn people that there’s a fire or other big hazard) is toxic. Period.
        No one, really no one, should have to put up with yelling, and if you are yelled at that IS NOT your fault. I might decide to accept being yelled at by, say, my younger brother who I know has worse problems right now than being polite. Being forced to do so, however, is never okay.
        If the coworker can’t help yelling, he’s not ready for that particular workplace, head injury or not. (Well… at least not as long as there is no “Sorry, I know I should not do it, things are difficult but I’ll try to keep it at a minimum” and active effort to stop yelling.) Injuries of any kind are not a permit for abusive behaviour.

      3. RagingADHD*

        Getting a pass for shouting at your coworkers is not a reasonable accommodation. And it’s not the OP’s job to manage the coworker’s transition back to work, or their stress levels.

        If the injured coworker needs an accommodation, that’s the job of HR and management, which apparently they are refusing to do.

      4. Your Social Work Friend*

        This is poor advice. Being yelled at is very much a security issue if the OP feels it is. They’ve made no indication that they’re associating the braining injury with the safety issues. They have implied that they *may* think the brain injury is related to the yelling (sounds like it’s new, out of character behavior, but who knows?).

        A TBI does not entitle you to treat your coworker poorly because they asked you a question. You are owed no latitude for poor behavior. There is a difference between loudly asking for someone to repeat themselves because your hearing is diminished or communicating that you have a return plan which means you don’t have the answers to XWY and yelling.

        Being yelled at by a coworker,

        Clearly quitting is not their first response. The OP has used the available options if they do not feel safe discussing it with the coworker and if those avenues have been unsupportive then they should consider outside options.

        1. RagingADHD*

          You seem to be ignoring the fact that these two people appear to have worked together just fine before, and making up an entirely different story about what’s happening than the question presented.

          It also sounds like you’re taking it very personally. Why? Do you think it’s about you, or something?

        2. Peanut Hamper*

          Except the issue is that the coworker with the head injury isn’t the one who wrote in asking for advice.

          If you can’t keep that in mind, then maybe you should go somewhere else on the internet. This “good people on both sides” nonsense has got to stop.

        3. Tio*

          It’s perfectly valid to not want to be yelled at, even if you’re a bit annoying. If There is no place in the job for yelling at coworkers. Even if it doesn’t rise to your definition of unsafe, it’s still not ACCEPTABLE, TBI or not. If the coworker needs more time to deal with that, then they need to work through taking additional leave/FMLA with HR. You cannot yell at coworkers, period. You shouldn’t be raising your voice or snapping at coworkers either. Grace for the employee who suffered the TBI does not extend to treating their coworkers poorly.

        4. Unkempt Flatware*

          Please do take the suggestion to not offer advice here anymore. This is such a troubling stance.

    4. ILoveLlamas*

      No one likes to be yelled at or feel unsafe at work (or any place for that matter). Since you have already gone to HR and management, perhaps you go back to whichever one was more receptive and ask them to facilitate a conversation with this person. Either before or after you make that ask, you can create a script of what you want to say to the person (much like Alison’s suggested language), practice it a few times and then have the facilitator with you for the conversation. The facilitator will hopefully provide you with some confidence (just for the sheer fact of having someone else present) and also a witness in case things go sideways….Good luck!

    5. Jen (they or she pronouns please)*

      It’s 100% a reason to quit, I’d even say a good one. If you haven’t been really clear with management (for example, if there’s a chance they didn’t understand it keeps happening and thought it was a one-time action), I’d say it’s an option as well. I’d say something along the lines of “Coworker keeps yelling at me for asking benign questions. Examples of those are X,Y, and Z. On average, this happens N times a week[day/whatever makes sense]. The yelling is bad enough that I feel unsafe. How can we get this solved?”

      I’d start a job search before that conversation though, because I’d start one now. If it gets solved, it didn’t hurt. If nothing gets solved, the sooner you get out the better. If (what hopefully shouldn’t happen but I don’t think management and HR at your company are completely reasonable) you get in trouble for it, it’s good to have already started.

      Good luck!

    6. WellRed*

      You posted last week, right? Sounds like the planned meeting didn’t go well? Was no plan set in place? I think you should nit waste energy wishing for an apology. He apologizes and then continues to yell at you? Is that helpful? No. Have you made a formal complaint about feeling unsafe (using that word)? At any rate, no matter what the company does, of course it’s reason to leave. More power to you and eff them!

    7. Unkempt Flatware*

      Never suffer by default. This goes for every relationship in your life. You get to choose what suffering is to you and when you’ve had enough. Do not take the terrible advice you were given by another commenter here. Getting yelled at is abusive for many many people. If my dad had beat me instead of just emotionally abused me, maybe teachers would have believed I was being abused.

  92. Llama Llama Red Pajama*

    I’m not actively job searching but I’m curious as to how I’d deal with references.

    My first job in my field straight out of school I was a great worker but had some issues due to being caught up with a toxic co-worker. In the years since being there, I’ve turned all that around but that history as well as knowing how they stated they handled reference requests when I was there (they would only verify employment) doesn’t leave me feeling like I could use anyone there.

    At my current job, the person who knew me and my work best left a few years ago for a new opportunity. However, since then they’ve landed themselves in some very serious legal hot water and I no longer feel I can use them as a reference.

    So the question becomes, who could I use as references?

    1. Peanut Hamper*

      Who is at your current job who knows you and your works best now?

      A hiring manager is much more likely to take someone who is still working at the company more seriously than someone who left three years ago. A lot could have happened in that time. A current manager or coworker will always have more relevance than someone you haven’t worked with in a while.

      1. Jen (they or she pronouns please)*

        They possibly wouldn’t want to use their current manager as a reference though – the manager might not know about the job search.

        To the asker:
        I don’t know much about references myself, but I think you could try to get your first manager’s contact info (not HR from that company) and ask that manager. When asking, you could also try to reach an agreement of what would get said in a reference call.
        Are there any coworkers who knew your work at your current company that left? Those would be an idea, too. And if asked for the manager, you could always give the contact info with some additional info along the lines of “I know this isn’t ideal, and I know of the history and think it was bad”.
        Personally, I think I’d try to get a reference from the first company – the current one it’s normal to not have any references from I think. If you had any jobs before graduating, ask them for references, too. Not as good as managers from the jobs in your field, but better than nothing.

  93. Justin*

    A brief lesson and also a question.

    So, I’ve mentioned here before that I was hired as Education Guy at a place that doesn’t specialize in education. I will be getting some more members of my sub-team by later this year who are educators, but for now, it’s basically me and a lot of project manager types (and I love them, that’s no shade).

    For a while I was nervous about trying to push for my own ideas since trying to overexplain pedagogy to folks is both boring and not all that compelling without my many many years of studies. But lately, while being tasked with re-shaping a whole curriculum for a very company-important training program, they’ve trusted my insight entirely.

    Basically, much as it is annoying, the way forward has been:

    1. Patience (of which I don’t have much, but I can deal if I give myself other things to do)
    2. Clarity of message
    3. Relationship-building, which has always been hard for me at places that didn’t accept my neurodivergence, but this place celebrates My Way Of Being, and so I really feel like I can accomplish a lot now.

    My question to you is, when have you been in a situation where you noticed that your expert or experienced ideas were really connecting? And what allowed that to happen? Was it the three things I mentioned or something else?

  94. Being tactful but firm with employee who learns slower than others*

    How do you have a conversation about an employee needing to improve when they’re new and slower to grasp things?

    I have a new hire, G, that started in January of this year. I manage a team of 7, and have trained 6 out of the 7 people over the last 5 years as a manager. I know the learning curve is steep and our jobs require learning a lot of detailed information, and I see folks learning at different speeds and in different ways. The full ramp-up period is about 6-9 months. I’ve also done their job myself, so I know what it takes.

    G is having a really hard time grasping things. I can tell by the errors he makes and the questions he asks. 2 week ago, he wanted to review something that was beyond simple and so obvious to me but he didn’t understand. The challenges are definitely unique to him, as no one else on my team (new or seasoned) has had an issue with that.

    How can I tactfully have conversations with him about improving, but also being sensitive to his slower learning style?

    1. Peanut Hamper*

      Do you have a framework for what that learning curve and ramp-up period should look like? It’s easier to explain things when you have a roadmap, because then you can something like “You really should be halfway to Miami by now, but your’re only about 40% of the way there, which is fine because you’ve excelled at x, y, and z” or (what is more likely needed here) “You really should be halfway to Miami, but you’re barely out of Chicago. What do you think the holdup is?”

      G may not even be aware that he is this far behind in your expectations.

      I also work in a highly technical field that has a similar learning curve and ramp-up, and we definitely have a road map in mind.

      But I’ve also learned that for some people, it’s less of a map and more of a jigsaw puzzle, and they aren’t going to see the big picture until they’ve seen enough of the pieces. That may be the kind of learner G is, which is why he’s asking about some basic things again. It may help to ask him how he’s managed to learn complex material in the past.

    2. Fidgeting giraffe*

      Can you ask him for his perspective on how he learns? It might be that he retains information better when it is presented a specific way (like, reading it versus hearing it). Or he might do better with frequent breaks to take notes on what he’s learnt in the last quarter hour or whatnot (so a two-hour training block would be mostly not retained). Or something else.

      Often (but not always) people who learn differently than usual are aware of it and would be happy to share whatever they’ve learned about how they learn. And if he shares something, please don’t judge, not even an off-hand “oh, that’s different/strange” because it very well may be a sensitive topic after years of being teased/judged about.

      It is possible that this is just a bad match between the person and the job, but it’s great that you are willing to explore the possibility that it could be a good match with additional work!

      Good luck and sorry I don’t have anything more specific.

    3. TechWorker*

      I think it’s also helpful to get really specific in your own mind about what the minimum bar is. Are they meeting the bar for the role and you need to support them to help them improve? Or are they *too* slow and realistically you need to look at managing them to leave (/put on a PIP/move towards firing). They are different conversations, but I think knowing what the bar is helps with everything else.

    4. Thunder Kitten*

      what is Gs background ? Specifically – is his background different from your usual hires ? I’ve seen situations where new hires from different backgrounds have vastly different knowledge / skill gaps. This results in situations where theyre sitting there wondering why you’re explaining something for the 10th time that they knew for years… – while you’re looking at them wondering why they arent doing / havent figured out the 5th time something that theyd never even heard of before but everyone else came in knowing…

  95. Lucy P*

    I do admin, clerical, accounting, tech support, and property management for a small professional services firm. On top of that, I’m now project coordinator for a million dollar project. This new work takes up almost half my day.
    Any advice on how to better manage the workload? I have no meaningful help. Because I’m still support staff and the office culture, my boss and staff feel it’s ok to just walk into my office at any time.
    I have a planner, and project specific notebooks, but feel pulled in too many directions.

    1. kiwiii*

      Basic time management things that help may be blocking specific parts of your day as focus time (not to be interrupted excepting emergencies) to help with the “they can just walk into my office at any time” and a conversation with your bosses about how realistic your workload is — I know Alison has offered scripts before like “with new project A now on my plate, I’d like to talk to you about what’s realistic. I can do tasks B and C along with A, but will have to backburner D indefinitely; unless you’d like me to prioritize those differently.”

      If others at your company are managing a similar workload, you could speak with them about how and what they prioritize as well.

    2. Peanut Hamper*

      This is really a case where you have to manage up. This happened to me at my last job and I learned that you have to lay out clearly what’s on your plate and have your boss prioritize it for you.

      “Hey boss, I have projects x, y, and z on my plate today. That’s about ten hours of work in an eight hour day. Which of these absolutely need to be done today and which one can we push back to tomorrow or later in the week?”

      And if they say “Just get it all done today,” you have to push back and say “That can only happen if I cut corners on some of these projects. So which corners would you like me to cut, or would you prefer to push something back to later in the week?”

      And feel free to address the constant barging in. If they expect you to manage a million-dollar project, they need to give you the space and time to do that.

    3. Rick Tq*

      Have a hard discussion with the owners (if they aren’t your boss) about bringing on more people. Project Management is hugely detail oriented, so you can’t be hip-deep in project issues and just drop it to help get somebody on the wireless network.

      1. Mockingjay*

        This. You now have two full-time jobs. It’s time to hire or bring in a temp to handle your previous duties. Do it now, before you get completely overwhelmed.

      2. Lucy P*

        My boss is the owner. We’re in a hiring freeze. No one else in the office does what I do.

        How would time blocking work if (say) I do all construction work in the mornings, but then a supplier I’m waiting on doesn’t call me back until the afternoon?

        If I ask for help, I’m told to give stuff to the boss’s relative who is happier to play video games than do actual work. The boss is aware of this.

        Thanks, everyone.

        Yes, I’m job hunting. Just have to figure out how to make this more manageable until I can leave.

        1. Rick Tq*

          I’d focus on keeping the million dollar project on track and let everything other than payroll be lower priority, with being office tech support the lowest priority of all.

          No overtime, no nights or weekends if you aren’t compensated. Your owner has to see he has to bring at least one more person onboard or this new major project will go down the tubes.

  96. Fidgeting giraffe*

    I am looking for ideas for fidget-items that can either be hidden in a pocket or otherwise seem professional-ish/unremarkable.

    I find fidgeting to be helpful. If I’m at my desk or interacting with someone that I work with frequently, I don’t mind it being obvious. But there are times/places where I don’t want to make a big deal out of it or even just drawing attention to it (so, I would like to have to avoid saying “please don’t mind that I’m playing with this tassle-and-beads keychain, I promise I’m paying attention.”)

    Thank you!

    1. Fidgeting giraffe*

      PS. The specific keychain I mentioned as an example. I do have a variety of different fidgets I use. Sorry if that wasn’t clear.

      1. kiwiii*

        my cousin has the thin multi-ring versions of these and loves them. I have a little crystal heart that I use as a fidget more often than not.

    3. Mockingjay*

      I’ve seen fidget strips that you can stick on notebooks, phone case, keyboards, etc., which you can rub your fingers over. They’re supposed to be unobtrusive – just a bit of texture on a strip that looks like thick tape.

      1. DoodleBug*

        Calm Strips! If it’s the kind of fidget that would work for you, they’re great.

    4. Your Social Work Friend*

      Marble in mesh is a great one, I have one on a keychain and without that I keep in my sweater pockets to use. I also have several textured balls (like the little spiky balls that runners use to run their feet over) that I keep on my desk to run my hands over. I find those to be very unobtrusive, in particular the marble and mesh because they fit right in the palm of my hand. For reference, I’m a 5’4″ woman so, small hands.

    5. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      I sometimes use a Faber-Castel kneadable eraser as a fidget. If you have a pencil with you, the eraser is now just part of your work supplies rather than a “fidget toy”. It’s similar to using Thinking Putty without the crazy colors or scent, which all seem geared toward children.

  97. Thunder Kitten*

    Its time to move on, even though I dont want to.
    Pay is above avg, but no merit raises.
    Good flexibility.
    Boss is… not great. Hoards information, indecisive, a bit of a condescending jerk, atleast to me.
    Grandboss is pretty good – communicates and will atleast advocate for the team. But has no clue what it is I do or how it is done.
    Organization has elements of awesome and elements of toxic.
    But my skills are not being utilized at all nor am I gaining new skills.

    So time to move on, I guess.

  98. I Wish My Job Was Tables*

    I’d like a quick yes/no on whether I’m communicating enough with my boss. I’m not used to working from home or with a remote boss, so I’d like to make sure I’m learning good norms.

    My boss and I agreed that I’d email in the morning, laying out what I planned on accomplishing that day, then email at the end of the workday saying what I did complete. During the day, I’ll respond promptly to my boss’s emails. If they assign a task, I say when I plan on completing it and/or acknowledging if the boss wants it done sooner or later than I said I would. I’ll also email the boss once the work is done, as well as emailing questions when I have them (usually once I have enough at once or reach a stopping point on an assignment).

    On an average day, this leads to 3 – 5 emails to the boss, not all of which get replies (especially the check-ins – I usually don’t hear back unless the boss wants to add something to my daily plan). Occasionally I’ll have very light days where I’m only emailing twice, which makes me feel odd. During my last check-in (my boss and I meet via Zoom 1 – 2 times a week based on deadlines), the boss said the amount I messaged is fine, but I’m used to more micromanaging bosses who would want more so I want to make sure.

    At other healthy companies where people work remotely, would this be an alright amount to stay in touch?

    1. Techland*

      That feels like a lot of communicating! I work remote and we use slack. I don’t communicate what I’m working on at any time outside my weekly 1:1. I can go days without talking to my boss and she knows I’m getting my work done. I’d never be able to keep up with what you’re doing.

    2. kiwiii*

      That sounds like more than enough to me. Is there some other kind of interaction you feel you’re missing out on through this set up?

    3. ferrina*

      Oh, that feels like a lot of communication. I’ve worked remote from my boss for the last 7 years (at this point I’m thrilled to have a boss in the same time zone). The only time I’ve done daily status reports was when I was onboarding (which lasted about 2 weeks, then we both agreed I knew what I was doing and was fine to keep going).

      I like to do weekly 1:1 check ins meetings, where we lay out my priorities for the week and what I do/don’t expect to get done. At this point my boss will also tell me what they want me to flag (for example, they don’t care if the llama hat designs are delayed this week, but let them know if the TPS report might be delayed). Communication beyond that depends on what projects are happening. I’ve had weeks where I’m in near constant communication via IMs and meetings because that’s what the project required, and weeks where I only talked to my boss in our 1:1 because that’s all that the project needed.

      This also depends on how experienced you are- if you are a new grad, more communication is very reasonable. If you are a seasoned professional, you probably know what level of communication your work requires.

    4. Peanut Hamper*

      I work remotely and that sounds like a lot!

      But we use Teams, so if there is a question either way, it is a simple matter of reaching out. (This is the first company I’ve ever worked at that uses Teams, and I am loving it. It is so much better than email.)

      We have check-ins twice a week (Mondays and Fridays, again via Teams) and there have been weeks when I have had zero to almost zero communication otherwise.

    5. Jen (they or she pronouns please)*

      That’s A LOT of E-Mails. I’d guess way above the average. (I don’t work remotely myself*, but family members do, and some coworkers of me do.)

      *Well, not in a formal office work setting, at least. The project I do remotely, I send the boss a message for the stuff I completed and (sometimes) additional info on the stuff that still is to do, and of course hand in my work regularly. This looks like “Hello Boss’Name! I finished designing Jane’s teapot. Before sending it into production, we’ll need to check in with her whether it should be vanilla flavoured or lemon flavoured. Picture is attached, design is formatted for production and added to the approval list.” where a teapot takes between a few days and two to three weeks to design. I am not planning teapots in reality though. I think that’s on the lower end of communication, but I have contact with coworkers on not-directly-work stuff daily and make sure my boss hears from me every few work days, even if it’s sometimes just an one-line “Maxi’s teapot has a pattern now, Alex’s has a shape, will finish them by [dates], pictures are enclosed, should you want me to change something say so please.”

    6. Friday Person*

      I work hybrid in a pretty high-communication role and this would be perfectly fine. (We do weekly check-ins at most, although usually a higher volume of email/Slack regarding specific issues.) If your boss is happy and you’re not having any issues related to insufficient communication, I’d say you’re almost certainly fine, too.

    7. Jaydee*

      Pre-covid, remote work was an occasional thing at my employer (e.g. something you could do if your school-age kid was home sick or you had a repair person coming or whatnot). Our boss used a similar system of emailing in the morning what you’d be working on and again at the end of the day what you actually did.

      When we went remote in March 2020 he used the same system – and it lasted about a week. Then he realized he was getting dozens of emails each day and we were all doing our work.

      I think more frequent check-ins can be useful with new employees as both employee and supervisor get used to the role, each other’s communication styles, etc. But after a few weeks you probably want to move to less frequent regular check-ins (maybe 1x per week) and then ad hoc check-ins as needed. I have a weekly 1:1 with my supervisor and then we email and call each other as needed throughout the week. Could be once. Could be four times in a single day. Just depends on the week

      1. I Wish My Job Was Tables*

        That’s good to hear, thank you! I came from a position where I was severely micromanaged, so the idea of only speaking to my boss once in a day seems very weird! But it’s good to know that can be normal.

    8. Tio*

      Yeah chiming in with another “that’s a lot of emails”. Generally, I don’t need anyone to email me unless it’s a large project, or they’ve hit a snag, or they have an unusually full workload for the time period and want help prioritizing. Was this much emailing your idea, or his?

      1. I Wish My Job Was Tables*

        Mine. As I said, I’m used to a more micromanaging style and both of us were new to working remotely (and my boss had never managed remotely.) My boss wanted a way to know what I was working on and I suggested this option. At the beginning, my boss had some things going on that meant they weren’t always working when I was and weren’t able to schedule regular meetings at all. They’re not super tech savvy either. They seem way more comfortable with email.

        I wasn’t sure if this was normal, so I wanted to get a bead on whether to adjust work norms now, or if I should stick with it and remember that this isn’t standard for all jobs.

    9. WantonSeedStitch*

      I wouldn’t want the first and last emails of the day. Tell me at a weekly or biweekly 1:1 what you’re planning on working on over the next week or two. Email me with questions you have. Email me back if I ask you a question or assign you something. That’s all I need.

      1. I Wish My Job Was Tables*

        Good to know, thanks for telling me! As I said, I’m new and get the sense I’m going to need to teach myself remote work norms, so I’m trying to figure it out. Ultimately, it’ll come down to what my boss wants, but then it’s my job to make sure I’m not carrying anything negative forward to the next position.

  99. Anon Here*

    I was put on a PIP last week. To be honest, it was deserved. I know I can come back and recover, but sometimes it is hard to believe it.

    If any of you have bounced back from a PIP, or seen an employee bounce back, could you please tell me about it (as much as you feel comfortable sharing) so I know my hopes are real.

    1. Decidedly Me*

      I’ve had a few folks come back after a PIP (and ours were pretty late stage PIPs at the time). Most notably, I had someone who, in addition to the materials/coaching I provided, started putting together their own notes, cheat sheets, and looking through the work of successful team members to understand better (this was a totally acceptable and easily accessible thing – I don’t want it to sound like they did anything sneaky).

      Honestly, the people that are likely to complete a PIP are those that accept the issues and ask for the help they need if it’s above what’s already being offered.

      The folks that are least likely fight every piece of feedback and refuse to believe there is a problem or have an excuse for every issue.

      Best of luck to you! :)

    2. ferrina*

      Yes! I’ve bounced back, and I’ve seen others bounce back!

      Often the issue was lack of support/training. There was usually unmet training or communication needs. In one case it turned out that the person had gone through a personal crisis and had undiagnosed depression; they were working with their doctor during their PIP (not required by the company, that was of their own volition).

      Something they all had in common:
      1. They all felt like the PIP was warranted. They knew they weren’t performing as well as they should, and they wanted to do better.
      2. They wanted to do better. They were frustrated/unhappy with their performance, and they were happier when they performed well. They really wanted to perform well.
      3. They took their own steps to try to improve. They followed the PIP to the letter, but also looked at the core issues. In the case where depression was at play, the person treated the depression. When organization was an issue, the person sought out organizational experts on their own and got advice. They really committed time and energy to success (with the goal of setting up a sustainable success structure; you can’t plan to overextend yourself as a long-term solution, but if it’s for a few months to make sure that you have the structure you need then you scale back, that’s doable and sometimes necessary)
      4. Their bosses believed in them. Often the boss was confused and disappointed. They really wanted this person to perform well and they were rooting for them, but they knew that they couldn’t be a good boss and keep a low performer on their team. They wanted a solution as much as the person on the PIP (in one case the boss actually recommended the person to a different, more visible job that utilized skills that they weren’t currently utilizing. That person switched jobs and has been a strong performer since).

      Good luck! I’m rooting for you!

    3. Keeley Jones, The Independent Woman*

      I was on a PIP years ago and also deserved. I was able to come off it and worked there for several years after.

      Other than following the the things in the PIP, my boss mentioned after the fact that he really appreciated that my attitude stayed positive. I didn’t get salty about it and showed up every day with a good outlook. He admired my resilience when most people take a PIP and get defensive and bitter.

      Just do the work, remain upbeat and positive about it. You got this.

  100. Techland*

    Does anyone do top grading as part of their interview process? I had to go through it for my current position and we have candidates go through it. It makes me really uncomfortable because when I sit in a review after conducting an interview the higher managers will talk about the topgrading process and start to pick things apart like “their career path isn’t linear” (whose is? Especially in my industry. There is no formal education for it you end up there by accident most of the time) and other things. It feels like someone’s background from since high school just really shouldn’t matter. What if someone had to run from an abusive situation!? Or earlier in life had a non-traditional path? I don’t understand what it accomplishes. When I’ve looked into it the articles say it’s to find liars and remove bias but I feel like all it does it introduce potential bias. Wondering if anyone has any thoughts about it.

    1. ecnaseener*

      I have no experience with it, but I agree it seems very weird….seemingly the way they screen out liars is just by announcing there will be a reference check? As if no one’s ever gotten their friends to be fake references?

      And yeah, it seems very intense and unforgiving, looking for people who have always been perfect rather than just people who are currently a good fit based on recent accomplishments.

  101. Lolly*

    My manager is obviously burning out and I don’t know what – if anything – I can do. She is, hands-down, the best manager I’ve ever had – she models high standards, is transparent, approachable and friendly, routinely advocates for us with the higher-ups, isn’t afraid to help out when we’re tight, etc etc etc. I cannot speak highly enough of her as a leader.

    She also has small children, one of whom has special needs, and has occasionally made some comments that have led me to conclude that her marriage is not in good shape. She has lost a lot of weight over the past year and almost always looks exhausted.

    All of this has made her the frequent topic of employee chatter. We’re worried about her, both on a professional level (our jobs would be a lot harder without good leadership) and on a personal level (she’s a good person and we care about her). But we’re at a loss for what we can do! There’s some obvious things we can do to show our appreciation – saying thanks when she does something extraordinary (a common occurrence!), organizing thoughtful group gifts on appropriate occasions, proactively solving problems or going to the assistant manager when it’s not something that needs to be brought to her, etc. But that’s not enough.

    Does anyone have any suggestions for what we, as staff, can do to help?

    1. ferrina*

      Be good at your job. Where it makes sense, make it easier for her to do her job- send good notes, succinct emails, remind her of tasks coming up, offer to write first drafts of materials so she doesn’t have to write things from scratch (people often find it easier to edit than to write from scratch).

      And stop chattering about her. It’s nice that you are worried, but talking about her behind her back (even in a well-meaning way) isn’t supportive.

      A lot of what you mention are things that you cannot and should not help with. If you can make the work smoother and easier, let her know that you value her management, and be lovely to work with. That will give her more mental space for her home stuff. Realistically, she will likely have high levels of stress for a while- a not-good marriage and a special needs child (and any child!) are not things that stop being stressful overnight.
      If you are worried about her health, that can be a separate conversation that you have one time (and one time only). Don’t’ tie it to anything else, and if she says she has it handled, don’t pry.

      1. WantonSeedStitch*

        This. When I have a lot on my plate, having one of my reports say, “I can write a draft of the instructions for Project X if you want, and give it to review before sending it out to the team” is amazing.

    2. WellRed*

      Just do your jobs. There’s an awful lot of speculation here and while it may be bang on, it’s not your business. I’m not sure what you mean by thoughtful group gifts on appropriate occasions but I cringed slightly. Yes, be proactively on solving work problems. No, don’t keep chattering about her.

    3. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      Concentrate on doing your jobs really well, with good documentation, helpful drafts etc … and stop speculating about her private life. She might notice or learn 2nd hand about all the gossip.

      Keep to the normal level of compliments and gifts at your organisation – should you even be gifting a manager? – or she may find it awkward/odd.

  102. Top Llama PM*

    After a sanity check and my peers don’t seem to grasp why I’d even want to consider this:

    I’m a project manager and we are about to finish a project that has been a monumental effort. To use Alisons usual llama grooming example we are set up to groom say 100 llamas and this project meant we had to do 1000 at once. People have had to get tape measures to work out how to fit 1000 llamas into the building it’s that demanding, and it has gone seamlessly from start to finish.

    I want to get everyone involved at all levels a thank you card, which means about 100 being printed up. It’s not expensive to do and feels more personal than an email. But my question-if I got these printed up where does the confidentiality line sit? The project code name feels fine but can I mention the colour of the llamas? You wouldn’t ever be able to identify anything at all from it other than we once groomed brown llamas (we groom all colours so that’s not really a revelation), but something is giving me a pause. Without the llama colour it won’t make much sense, as the code name is linked and an exceptional pun when in context.

    I can check with my boss but wondering if I’m just overthinking it?

    1. ferrina*

      Check with your boss. This will vary based on industry and exact wording, which obviously you can’t share here.

      1. Tio*

        Honestly your boss might even like the idea and be able to set it up through work with one of their partners.

  103. Competition Law*

    A problem that is very new to me came up today. I am a low to middle senior professional. I’ve been approached by a competitor to hire me. The offer is good and they seem great. I’m very unhappy in my current company, as I’m overworked and underpaid by quite a lot, and I am stress and extreme workload is profoundly affecting my health and wellbeing. In preparation to accept the offer and hand in my notice, I reread my contract. I signed a non-compete clause. I really should have read it/ understood it back when I signed… it did not occur to me at my then-junior level this would become a problem, and didn’t feel in a position to push back on contract clauses.

    I am now terrified I could be forced into 6 months of unemployment.

    Does anyone have experience with this and advice? I am in the UK.

    Thank you!

    1. Rick Tq*

      Talk to a solicitor to get an expert’s opinion on your situation.

      In the mean time, dial back to working 40 hours, no weekends, no nights, no nothing beyond the basics. Yes, you need to accept that some of your tasks will be late or never done at all, but that is your manager’s problem.

      Good luck.

      1. Peanut Hamper*

        Yes, this.

        In the US, non-compete clauses have been found to be almost completely unenforceable because of how they are often worded. The same may be–or may not be–true in the UK, but the best way to know that is to talk to a legal professional.

      2. Competition Law*

        I love this advice but honestly can’t see how! I might be too lost in the stress but it feels if I drop any more balls (I have dropped some/had others drop them which then looks like I dropped them to the client) and I am worried my reputation is already shot.

    2. TechWorker*

      Agree with other advice to talk to an actual lawyer if you can. I think tho that non compete is often not enforceable and often not in companies best interests to even try to enforce. If you are the key person for some company proprietary data/something patentable then maybe they have an argument but otherwise? I don’t think you should worry too much. (Disclaimer I am obviously not an actual lawyer / do talk to an actual lawyer)

    3. ferrina*

      Seconding Rick Tq. Solicitor should be your first stop.

      You may also be able to talk to the company that gave you the offer. I knew someone (in the U.S.) that did this as part of their offer, and the company had their legal team look at it too. They decided they would fight it in court if necessary, and it did become necessary. Other solutions I’ve seen (again, in the U.S.), was to have that person work on different work for 6 months before handling the things that they’d spend more time at. But they may also decide that they don’t want to deal with the headache.

      1. Competition Law*

        Thank you. Yes, they have offered to have their legal advisory team take a look at it. A friend of a friend who is far more experienced at these things also offered to have his company’s legal team look at which is very helpful.

        I don’t really have resources for a solicitor so might try these first.

        Part of me thinks my current employer wouldn’t have energy/resource to go the legal route but they are very touchy about competition, so I can’t be sure.

        After a bit of googling, they do seem to be successfully enforced in the UK.

        Side note: this seems incredibly unethical! The risk of minor competitive advantage from my knowledge is surely massively outweighed by the risk of defaulting on mortgage payments, not being able to feed myself, etc..??!!

        1. Rick Tq*

          Non-compete clauses might have made sense when loyalty went both ways but in the current environment they give employers the advantage. I won’t address the ethics question but this sounds like something to bring up to your MP. Propose changing the law to make them enforceable for principals and owners but not regular employees. That is the law in California (where I used to work) and it seems to work well there.

        2. allathian*

          Yes, this.

          They recently changed the law in Finland so that if an employee has a non-compete contract, the employer has to pay a significant percentage of the salary for the months that the employee is effectively unemployable. This means that non-competes have gone away for almost everyone except the C-suite and a few other strategic positions.

    4. Qwerty*

      Talk to the competitor about the non-compete clause, including sending them the language used in your contract. They have probably run into this before if it is common in your industry

      I’m not sure how common it is to enforce them in the UK. My experience in the US is that companies are selective about who to enforce them on and generally use it mostly as scare tactics. While some companies are jerks who always enforce, others only care if it is someone with valuable company info. Local laws also come into play – one state I was in said enforcing a non-compete meant paying the employee for the enforcement period so it was basically a paid vacation.

  104. Nonprofit worker and donor*

    I work at a nonprofit as a fundraiser. The organization and my colleagues are great, and in addition to my job I have personally donated at a level that means I’m invited to special member events. Since I’m usually one of the people who works at these events, I looked forward to just being a guest. But when I went to the first of these, I felt awkward when my colleagues who have lower salaries were the people who greeted me and checked me in.

    I have been invited to this year’s version of the same event and as before, I can bring guests. I’m trying to figure out the best way to handle it. My colleagues haven’t changed the way they interact with me, so this is all about my own discomfort. I used to be one of those people who couldn’t make a larger donation.

    I haven’t discussed this at work and really this is all about what I’m telling myself in my head. I’m considering signing up to be on the set-up team along with them until my own guests arrive, which I know would be welcomed. I appreciate any advice.

    1. WantonSeedStitch*

      I might keep in mind that even those who CAN give larger amounts to the nonprofit where they work might not CHOOSE to do so. Some might choose not to give at all. Some people don’t like the idea of giving money back to their employer, even if they believe in the mission. And that’s fine. But reflecting on the idea that people also have a choice whether or not to donate might help you to realize that they aren’t necessarily seeing you as someone who CAN donate, as much as they’re seeing you as someone who WANTS to donate. And I think your idea to help set up in advance is a great one.

    2. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      Depending on your role, you can also think of it that attending the event is part of your work responsibilities regardless of your personal donation. I’m a major gift fundraiser and we typically attend events to help host and mingle, even when we bring our own partners/guests. Without knowing the details of the event I would bet you’re still “on” in a professional capacity – making connections, building and strengthening relationships, and generally showing up as an advocate of the organization.

      I think if you want and are able to volunteer to be part of the set up team that would be appreciated, but I don’t think you’re doing anything wrong by attending the event!

    3. Nonprofit worker and donor*

      Thanks for both replies which are helpful. I’ll go ahead with helping to staff the first part of the event.

  105. Tiny clay insects*

    an update from a question I asked in here back in February 2022:

    I was trying to decide between two literary agents (Agent A, who was extremely organized and transparent but newer to the industry and at a smaller agency, and Agent B, who was very passionate about my work, with a longer track record and a more successful agency, but without the same level of rigorous organization). I had had a previous literary agent who was unresponsive, disorganized, unreliable, and all around bad, and I chatted with people on here about how my previous experience had made me want an extremely organized agent. But, in discussing things here with people, I realized that I shouldn’t let my fear from my prior agent make me not choose an all-around great agent who just didn’t have the crazy-detailed levels of organization. So I chose Agent B.

    In the year+ since I signed with Agent B, Agent A ended up switching agencies (to another small one), which is something I wouldn’t have loved.

    And Agent B has been fantastic! I’m glad I looked at things big-picture and didn’t just choose the person with the clearest spreadsheet.

    I’m now happy to announce Agent B sold my young adult novel and it will be released in fall of 2024. :-) :-) :-)

  106. DefinitiveAnn*

    I am depressed. My work is not suffering, really, but I am not being as productive as I am expected to be. My boss is a great guy – I have known them for almost 20 years, though I’ve only worked directly for them for three years – we are a super-small (< 5 people) consulting group in a niche industry and well known in that industry. This depression is coming on the heels of some pretty intense stuff – it took my brain a while to recover from COVID, and a member of our little team died unexpectedly.

    I am beating myself up a bit about the low productivity, which only makes the depression worse, not better. I am trying to do all the things that mitigate, like exercise and good diet and meditating. I do better when I plan my days, but sometimes…plans don't happen, or I'm not up for it and I kind of blow them off.

    I guess I have two questions: 1) Should I tell my boss? 2) Is there anything else I can do? I am billing about 20-22 hours a week, when I should be billing 30+.

    1. Hlao-roo*

      Look up the Captain Awkward post #450: How to tighten up your game at work when you’re depressed. I’ll link in a follow-up comment.

      I don’t have personal experience, so I can’t offer advice on whether or not to tell your boss.

    2. TechWorker*

      Is the billing difference obvious to your boss? If so I would say yes it’s definitely worth a conversation, even if all you say is you’re aware you’re billing less than normal and it’s due to health issues you’re working to get on top of.

      In terms of what you can do – it sounds like you’re already doing all you can! In which case my main advice is to remember that mental health issues are health issues and you don’t need to feel shame for needing help or taking a while to get back to your best. Good luck!

    3. I edit everything*

      One days when plans don’t happen, do one small thing, the easiest thing on your plate. Often that tiny bit of productivity will shift your brain into productivity mode and will make it easier to keep going.

      Longer term, get a therapist. Talk to your doctor about a low dose of an antidepressant.

    4. Pam*

      Talk to your doctor. I went through a nasty bout of depression last year. My main symptom was exhaustion and inability to focus. I was able to get a medication that worked really well for me. I was on low dose, but it was enough that I was able to get through most days. It made it easier to do an exercise routine and take other steps. I was on the medication for about a year, then weaned off of it (with doctor supervision). It was a great tool for me to get back to equilibrium. At first I had avoided it because I felt like it would be somehow lazy to be on medication, which didn’t make sense because I don’t feel that way AT ALL about anyone else taking meds. The thing with depression is that it doesn’t want to be treated. Feel no guilt about using all the tools at your disposal to go back to being you.

    5. pepe le moku*

      if it will help you to talk to the boss then definitely tell them that you are having a health issue – you don’t have to say what it is. And fight the illness like you would any other – talk to the doctor, do your physical therapy. maybe plan your days to include something you know will help you – a walk, read a couple pages in a book, exercise breaks… if it doesn’t happen because you are too ill that day, well thats how it is sometimes when you are ill and you keep going. Hugs to you, i’ve been there.

  107. I edit everything*

    I was just about to come here and ask how to tell your boss to go home because he got skunked and was stinking up the office. But he went home all on his own. (I work in a park).

    Now my question is how to get the skunk smell out of the office. Windows are open already. Would Febreze Air stuff do it?

    1. ferrina*

      Febreeze is amazing. I haven’t tried it with skunk, but it works with Dirty Gym Bag Fermenting For a Year.

      Of course, if you have coworkers double check with them- make sure you don’t trigger any scent allergies!

    2. pepe le moku*

      from experience with trying to get skunk smell out of a dog, clothing, household… its tough. The only solution that worked (somewhat) on the fabrics and dog is a mixture of dawn dish soap , hydrogen peroxide and baking soda. you can google the formula. For general air freshness i would try fabreeze or maybe putting out a bowl of baking soda?

    3. stuckinthemiddlemanagement*

      it’s probably too hard to get your hands on it right now if you just have this one opportunity, but there’s this stuff called “Ozium” that works for tough smells! I think it’s like the poor man’s amazon version of ozone (which is I think what pros use)

    4. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      If he sat on or touched anything, take it outside. Nothing you spray in the air will eliminate the smell if that oily residue is on a surface somewhere. If it’s fabric, just throw it out IME; if it’s a hard surface, wiping with pepe le moku’s recommendation of hydrogen peroxide and baking soda might fix it; baking soda sprinkled on the carpets or placed around the room in open bowls might also help absorb some odor over time, but probably not immediately.

    5. Seahorse*

      The Nature’s Miracle stuff they sell at pet stores works wonders. There’s a version of it made for getting skunk smell out of furniture and cloth. It does have a minor chemical scent of its own if anyone is sensitive to that though.

    6. I edit everything*

      Thanks, all. He wasn’t hit directly, just in the vicinity when the skunk was dealt with (it was sick and hanging the cemetery), so I don’t know what he actually had on him.

  108. What am i worth ?*

    I am approaching retirement (yay!) after over 30 years in my industry… i was a little concerned about going “cold turkey” after working for so long but looks like i found a great opportunity to come back as a consultant part time. Basically get to do the part of my job i like , when i feel like it and get some extra money too!
    My question is… how do i determine how much to ask for? Is there a general rule for what you make as a consultant vs your original “employeed” job? I know as a 1099 employee i’d have to pay my own payroll taxes so i need to take that into consideration plus the benefits that won’t be offered anymore… on top of that what is the “if you want me you will pay X% more” number? any ideas?

    1. just another queer reader*

      I think I’ve heard 2-3x. I think Alison has written about this before so you might find something by searching the archives?

      Also, congratulations!

  109. stuckinthemiddlemanagement*

    I have a dotted line report/mentee who is reporting to a new senior exec. This exec has earned (in just a few months) a rep for being very goal focused/big energy at the expense of process/order. OK, we can boundary that one for the most part. My mentee has come to me for advice since the beginning and last week she said things came to a head when the boss privately messaged her during a meeting telling her to turn her camera on (mentee’s web cam was in process of getting replaced by IT). My mentee let her know why – but the boss said it was “disrespectful” to others in the meeting not to have it on. My mentee pushed back a little bit re: zoom fatigue, microaggressions against woc, etc. and basically asked – is this a new requirement for everyone or just me? to which boss basically said she was tired of spending time on the topic (aka, no, it’s personal to mentee). Since then, my mentee says the boss has begun to “ice her out” – when mentee asked about an update on a project that she had been assigned, boss said “I just did it myself” – not once, but for three separate projects that were squarely in mentee’s wheelhouse. Mentee wants to be transferred to me directly (not in our dept budget, unfortunately). My advice was to have a frank convo with the boss and say “hey I noticed that xyz happened, is there some place I am not meeting your expectations?” Mentee said she’s exhausted by this and isn’t up for that convo. She’s really good, and it would be a loss for the org to lose her. But I’m trying to figure out the appropriate role here. I’m a decent read on people and my sense is that if anyone besides mentee approaches the boss, mentee will suffer.

    1. Prospect Gone Bad*

      Sounds like there is a huge amount of backstory missing especially since you wrote “she said things came to a head.” Do you know what the backstory is? TBH they both sound like they are BEC with each other so you need to find out why. Some of these things are a bit of red flags. For example, if someone asked “is this a requirement only for me.” Well, you’d know that simply by looking around the zoom meeting. The way that is phrased already feels slightly adversarial, so these two haven’t been getting along for a while.

      1. stuckinthemiddlemanagement*

        Yeah, I think you’re right. The backstory that I can gather is basically that the expectations on volume/pace of work (and even scope of the job description itself) were changed when the new boss came in and have been inching up by the week for everyone on that team, but mentee was finally starting to feel overwhelmed. She mentioned it 2 weeks ago and boss said “OK I won’t put more on your plate.” Yikes. The camera thing I gather was the first time that mentee felt like things got personally tense. TBH I was also pretty surprised when she told me that she actually pushed back in the moment and asked if it only applied to her (yeah something must have been bubbling for her). Mentee tells me that apparently another of her coworkers also felt “iced out” by the boss after doing something “wrong” but that it then blew over a few weeks later. Hard to know how to advise her because of course I care about her but also only have her side of things and it’s weird for me to be like… tattling? On the other hand I have also seen with my own eyes and experienced first hand on projects that this boss is… a lot. Big vision, not a lot of patience for process and occasionally trying to sidestep approvals/normal workflows and causing some frustration with other teams. I’m mostly agnostic about big talkers like this because sometimes they actually succeed in shaking things up for the better, but in this case I feel worried that the approach might cause collateral damage and the company would lose a great staff person. When I was first hired, mentee reported to me. I meet with her weekly as it stands, and help her functionally every day, But when new boss came they restructured the budget for the role and she moved over and now my advising has shifted to more informal help. I absolutely know it’s not my place to do anything with the new boss – if the shoe was on the other foot I know how I’d feel. I could mention this to my own boss or even grandboss (who is same rank as this boss), but this isn’t really abuse or anything. So, I think I just have to stick with my advice to mentee about being proactive and asking for feedback to get to the bottom of the issue. Thanks for listening.

        1. Prospect Gone Bad*

          Sounds like YOU need a meeting with the exec. It sounds like they generally should be doing high level work and not trying to manage people.

          I think a mistake I see here sometimes is people say “it has no point” when they mean “it won’t change anything quickly.”

          Of course it won’t change anything overnight. The point of the conversation is to plant a seed and maybe in three months or six months, things change.

          In the meantime, I’d advise mentee to only push back on stuff that matters so they don’t seem petty. I get it, I see it in the work world as well but it’s completely ineffectual. All the senior person sees is the pettiness, not the actual problem.

          Also, can you help mentee figure out actual work? Becuase there seems to be a dichotomy where you say they are a great employee and the boss thinks they are failing. Sometimes talking stuff through will make the other person realize they are indeed dropping the ball in an area or two

    2. Cedrus Libani*

      From your description, I think your mentee is right; that conversation won’t do any good. My experience with “big energy” leaders of this type is that they pride themselves on their ability to quickly and decisively spot the weak links on their team and manage them out. These people don’t make mistakes, at least in their own minds. Senior Exec has decided that Mentee is a liability, and so a liability she must be, even if that involves throwing a tantrum about a broken webcam.

      Had it happen to me, and seen it happen to others. The only advice I would give to Mentee is that this is not something you ignore and hope it will blow over, because it won’t.

      1. stuckinthemiddlemanagement*

        Thank you, yes. When boss came on she said “some people don’t like change, and they will leave” (as she restructured the department). You’d laugh if you knew the functional role she oversees.

    3. Momma Bear*

      I think that if things are already not great, the uncomfortable conversation should be had. I get why she doesn’t want to, but if the boss is now freezing her out of projects does it even make sense to have her in that role? Is there a way she can report to you but not be under your budget? In the government (and I don’t know how the pay is handled) people are sometimes sent on a “detail” to someone else. Could mentee propose to be borrowed to another department for the overall good of the company/help a staffing gap/learn new skills? Offering a productive move might be a way to get out from this without losing her entirely.

      1. stuckinthemiddlemanagement*

        I proposed this when the new exec came on, that mentee could stay with my department but be funded by exec’s dept. Exec said “if I’m paying, I want to manage.” OK, going great so far, bud!

  110. Lady Dedlock*

    I made a move last year from a nonprofit to a very large for-profit company. In doing so, I took a step down from a mid-senior role (one direct report and a lot of project leadership) to one that turned out to be more junior than I anticipated.

    My manager says my work quality is sufficient for promotion to the next level but that I’m not eligible for promotion in the current cycle. That means the earliest I would be promoted is early 2025. That seems like a long time to wait if I’m already doing work of that caliber, albeit without having the same scope as my more senior colleagues are given.

    Would it be reasonable to go back to my boss and say as much? I know exceptions to the time-in-role requirements have been made for others in the company, though I don’t know the circumstances.

    Or do you think I’d have better luck applying for higher-level roles elsewhere? Is it reasonable to say in an interview that I’m looking to move on after 10 months because my current role turned out to be more junior than it sounded when I accepted it?

    TLDR, appreciate any thoughts on how not to get pigeonholed as junior after making a slight misstep while switching sectors.

    1. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

      I would go back and talk to your boss about it. My guess, if you’re really an in-house senior person in all but name, the costs of backfilling your position effectively are going to dwarf getting you promoted out of cycle.

      1. Fatcat*

        Yes I agree with this. If you haven’t already, I’d do some things to really demonstrate your value and then use that as evidence to back your request up (but not so much that you’re knackering yourself out/becoming resentful!).

        The subtext will be that you’d look elsewhere if not.

        If you do start jobhunting, I think 10 months is enough to show you made a reasonable effort. Say that it was mismatch in skills/expertise that you couldn’t predict before joining.

        I also have also made this mistake, but was lucky that there weren’t such strict rules on promotion cycles. It did block me from the next promotion, however, as they felt like they’d already ‘promoted’ me, when it was more of a change in title to reflect what I really did.

    2. Water Lily*

      I was once the boss in a scenario like this!

      First, it is reasonable to go back to your boss and talk this out.

      Don’t hate your boss if they can’t do exactly what you want. I mean, boss should advocate for you as much as possible, but remember, bosses have bosses too.

      The question about looking elsewhere is, I think, one only you can answer. I don’t think a 10-month tenure is a deal-breaker, as Fatcat says.

      On other fronts, I don’t think you’d get pigeonholed as junior at all. I’ve seen plenty of people hop up a few ranks in the same company based on their performance. Good luck!

  111. Grumble ... grumble*

    My staffer was helping my boss create a webpage of FAQs. (Not really, but for the sake of this post, that’s what we’re going to call it)
    A few days ago, I shared a document that had a lot of information that could be helpful finding Qs or answering them.
    As of today, she had done nothing with the document.
    I asked her to review it and update what she had for the FAQ webpage.
    She said ok… then asked me whether anyone had added any information for the webpage.
    She can 1) review the edits made to the webpage and 2) look with her own eyes whether anyone has added anything to the page she created.

    There seems to be a lack of ownership and agency that I’ve been trying to instill in her for a few years, and she just doesn’t seem to get that the opportunity to work on the FAQ is actually something that will support her professional development. But, she only sees it as a task she’s being asked to do and … there’s a underlying tone that seems to imply that she feels she shouldn’t be asked to do such things.

    1. Colette*

      So … does she want to develop professionally (which I’m assuming means “be considered for a promotion”)?

      I think there are a couple of things you can do:
      – directly say “I’m getting the impression that you don’t want to work on the FAQ. I know it’s not part of your core job duties, but doing occasional things like that are part of the job.”
      – directly tell her she owns the FAQ update. “The FAQ update is your project and needs to be done by June 1. You can handle it however you think is best, as long as it’s ready to go by that date. When you have a final draft ready, let’s meet and go over it together – let’s aim for that review by May 29. “

      1. Grumble ... grumble*

        She 100% does want to develop professionally. But she’s always had some issues being motivated on the less… interesting… projects. If she’s interested she’ll tackle all of it and can be quite territorial about it too. But, with projects that aren’t fun or sexy or let’s be honest, difficult, complicated, or challenging – it almost feels like she waits to be told what to do because she just doesn’t want to do it.

        The issue is that this particular assignment was given to her by my boss and I’m now the actual middleman. So I don’t always have all the details to give her direction. So what happens now is that I ask a bunch of questions determine what my staffer knows, determine what my boss wants and then try to get my staffer to do what my boss needs in a way that helps them both.

        They’re both perfectly nice people. But… I’m tired.

        1. WellRed*

          I’m tired too. I’ve specifically sought out and asked for more ownership of certain tasks and if it happens at all, it’s still inconsistent or forgotten about our other smaller aspects are nitpicked to the point where I’m wondering wtf my ownership even means. Maybe that’s something to consider?

  112. Spearmint*

    When you work for a very large company, what are the norms about socializing with people in the office who you don’t know or work with?

    I’m working a hybrid job for a large company, and my office is on a large corporate campus with dozens of employees on my floor of the building alone. So far I’ve felt very awkward about striking up or joining in on (social, not work-related) conversations with people I outside my team, even in the breakroom.

    For example, I was in the breakroom grabbing tea and overheard some people at a table talking about Dungeons and Dragons, which I have played in the past (I’m into lots of nerdy stuff). I didn’t say anything as I didn’t want to impose on strangers, but now I’m wondering if it would have been ok to jump into that conversation for a few minutes and introduce myself? We’re technically colleagues so it feels less weird than just jumping into a conversation between strangers in public, but we’re still fundamentally strangers.

    1. stuckinthemiddlemanagement*

      absolutely! Particularly in the break room! Just consider this. I work for a medium sized company and our execs are constantly pining for the “water cooler” days where people could “build relationships.” You popping over to a table casually and making a friend would be their dream come true.

    2. Colette*

      I wouldn’t interrupt a conversation with that, but I might bring it up if I saw one of them in the breakroom alone – i.e. “hey were you part of that group discussing D&D? How long have you been playing?”

      I don’t think it would be totally out of line to interject, but I wouldn’t do it myself. Sometimes it would be fine and welcomed, but sometimes people would feel a little uncomfortable.

    3. Momma Bear*

      Depends on how deep into the conversation they were. If you see that person again, I’d consider bringing it up as a “by the way…” maybe while grabbing coffee so there’s an end-time if the conversation doesn’t take off.

    4. Rick Tq*

      Are you looking for a new group and DM? If so you have a good reason to join in the next they starting discussing it the break room. Good luck.

    5. GythaOgden*

      Ask nicely and I’m sure they’d include you. IME of almost 30 years playing across three countries, D&D players are extremely welcoming people. I’ve found it a good way to meet new people anywhere I’ve been. You’d be imposing just as much as you would by asking to join a game you found through a shop. I did that in 2009 and very quickly got a new set of friends, a place other than my mum and dad’s to hang out and eventually a husband.

      From experience on the opposite end, if I knew someone was into D&D I’d be happy to include them, and I actually got back into World of Warcraft (and then gaming in general) because two of the IT managers were talking so much about it my curiosity got piqued about the state of the game.

  113. women's plus size masc clothing*

    Hello! I am looking for recommendations for women’s plus size professional clothing, but masculine-ish. (I am on the edge between straight and plus sizes.)

    Someone on here recommended Bloomchic but I found it more femme than is my taste.

    I really like the shape and feel of Duluth Trading Co’s button up shirts, for context. My aspirational style is bright, bold colors and patterns!

    (also if this is better for the weekend thread, I will post there instead!)

    1. Momma Bear*

      Would Land’s End fit the bill? Some of their button up shirts are actually kind of unisex looking (IMO), especially the short sleeved ones. I like their polos.

      1. Cedrus Libani*

        My first “work uniform” was Land’s End polos, one of every color they had, plus jeans. It was bright, which I enjoyed, though the lighter colors definitely had to be retired first due to stains – my current uniform is all-black, less fun but more practical. It was dressy, but not enough to be a Statement; it was unisex, but likewise, not enough to be a Statement. Which is exactly what I wanted.

    2. random person*

      I’m not sure how masculine you are looking for? I find personally that women’s “cut” clothing looks more flattering on me and I try to avoid patterns that are more floral, things with ruffles, etc. It is so freaking hard though!

      I don’t like button-up shirts as much, so if anyone has recommendations for those, lmk.

      I also prefer machine washable, non polyester clothes. Polyester can look nicer but it’s gross for me if you get sweaty like in the summer, etc.

      I tend to go for more basic style online sellers like Blair, National (search shop national), Land’s End or Northstyle.

      I still have to scour for good options but sometimes find stuff. Sometimes I can find things at Kohls or Torrid but it’s really hit or miss.

      I used to occasionally buy actual men’s shirts but my body has changed with age and they don’t work as well for me anymore but YMMV.

      There used to be a site kind of like Princess Awesome that sold clothes with nerdy prints. A former coworker had a DNA print dress but they also sold shirts. I always meant to try ordering one but never did. I found svaha which might be it or similar.

      Good luck, please share if you have luck with other sites!

  114. cup of tea*

    My job sucks and is not going to change, so I’m looking for something else. Current job pays well though, and realistically it will be difficult to find a new job with the same salary. I found a job that looks great: meaningful and interesting work. The top of the posted salary range is less than I earn now, but I would find that worth it. I really can’t go for much less though. The position seems like a good fit, qualifications match, it’s not a stretch job. If I’m selected for an interview, how and when should I mention that my salary requirement is the top of their range?

    1. Jen (they or she pronouns please)*

      I’d mention it whenever you’d normally discuss salary. Top of their range means in their range, so for the right person they should be willing to pay it. I’m not an expert though.

    2. Momma Bear*

      I’d tell them what you’re looking for when it gets to that point. Leave it up to them to decide if they can stretch or not. I’d also factor in things like do you get more PTO or WFH or a shorter commute? How much out of pocket would you pay for health insurance?

    3. Water Lily*

      I think Momma Bear is spot on. If you do get an offer at the top of the range, I’d get out pencil and paper to make sure you’re looking at a like-for-like comparison. Sometimes, even just a different commute can really add up your expenses. (Like in academia! You have to pay to park there! Or in my city, where I pay to park and then pay to ride the train into the office!)

    4. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      I’d suggest you state your desired salary range is xx (their top) to xx+10%, depending on benefits, vacation etc”

      They might be able to stretch 5% or more if you are a really good candidate. Or no leeway at all, but at least it strongly nudges them not to offer you below their top figure.

      Do ask for details about benefits and vacation days.
      Also work out commuting costs and time.
      Work out how much you need to maintain your current standard of living.
      Then do your sums and an Old Job/New Job comparison spreadsheet

  115. Kay Tee*

    Y’all…. my new coworker has an office with frosted glass walls right in front of my open-office desk. I looked past my computer and to my horror saw his blurry outline with NO SHIRT! I immediately looked away and went into a little panic (“oh no! he must think the wall is solid! there’s no way he knows we can see. I have to warn him, but this can’t be our first conversation. what would Alison say??”)

    Just then, the door opened, and he stepped out…. in his fitted, beige-colored shirt, uncannily matched to his skin tone. :,)

    2. Rara Avis*

      I had an orangey shirt that evidently read as bare skin under a cardigan. I stopped wearing it.

    3. Cedrus Libani*

      This took me back to the one and only time where my mother dragged me back to my room and forced me to change my outfit.

      My high school had spirit days, where everyone was to dress according to a theme. The student council had chosen a “Dress Sexy” day. The principal had used her veto and declared that it was “Dress Nerdy” day instead. Being a teenager, I decided to do both. I am very white, so my skin is khaki colored, and I happened to own both a khaki shirt and khaki shorts. I put tights on over the shorts, and then I had a rather credible nude bodysuit. Then, I put on a lab coat…and nothing else. Nerdy and sexy. Win.

      But I didn’t make it out of the house. My protestations that I was in fact wearing more clothes than usual fell upon deaf ears. Alas.

  116. so long and thanks for all the fish...*

    In a request for feedback the other day , my manager asked me a great question (which makes me think he reads this thread because its an interesting twist on the “golden question”) and i wanted to see what responses we’d get from folks here?
    What traits /actions/ characteristics have you seen in a really good/ great manager?

    Its so easy to talk about the bad stuff and we all are amazed and say “wow he DID that??” but what about the good stuff?
    what managers have you had that were awesome and what was it that made them that way?

    1. Jen (they or she pronouns please)*

      Not mine, but an existing one. I’m not sure how he is overall, but from what I heard seems decent. One thing made me answer here though:
      – Employee had bad mental health struggles (trust me, really bad) and was out for a few months. The leave got lengthened in two to three week intervals, and only a few days before the old one was up. It must have been a planning hell. Said employee had been at the company for 4,5 months when this started, as an apprentice. (He knew there had been struggles before hiring the employee.)
      – Was really helpful during the time the employee was out (including sending a little “get better soon!” card with her favourite chocolate, from the team). Made sure everyone at the company who needed info (HR, team mates, school) knew what they needed to know.
      – When things got better, in a team that normally has zero home office as they are apprentices got her a laptop, VPN access to the company, and told her to work from home when she felt like it, but that she didn’t have to (software dev role in a company building machines). (Note she was paid the entire time, though at some point the health insurance took over for parts of that.)
      – Later, when time came to formally return to work (the previous was completely voluntary since the employee wanted to have something to do) he agreed to start at really part time, and while letting her study for school on the job (the apprenticeship comes with a few weeks of school).
      – And all this with so far zero negative influence on her job, as far as she can tell.

    2. martini*

      The best managers know enough about my job (even if they can’t do it themselves) to support me: either in hardware, or setting priorities, and keeping track of when I’m right, even when they don’t like my answer. They also allow deadlines to be set in such a way that I get time to learn things or figure out what’s not working, as opposed to doing just the next iteration. (sometimes when things aren’t working, we just move to the next thing, without figuring out why it’s not working)

  117. Becky*

    Does anyone know of resume advice geared specifically toward nursing?

    My MIL, who is in her early 60s, is job searching for the first time in almost 30 years and asked me for resume help. I’m generally good at this, but I’m unfamiliar with nursing resumes and especially for people later in their careers. The draft she sent me is 4 pages and goes back to the 1980s. Her bullet points for her current job alone cover almost a whole page. I don’t even know where to start, but I really want to help her. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

    1. not a nurse but in healthcare*

      If you’re on reddit you might try r/nursing for advice.

      Lots of hospitals host open house career day type events where she can meet with recruiters in person.

  118. Tech Writer*

    Some good news! I had the federal interview and I think it went well (thank you to Interplanet Janet*, fine tipped pen aficionado*, and H.C.* for your advice!)

    It turns out that the interview for the position is basically what I’m doing now but would be for another agency. I did answer in STAR format which they seemed to like, but they are still interviewing candidates.

    I’m supposed to hear back from them in the next few weeks, so fingers crossed it’s good news.

  119. Water Lily*

    Well, I don’t know about nursing, but these tips may be universal:

    Definitely keep to 2 pages.
    I’d have to see the whole thing, but I think jobs with bullet points only need to go back about 10 years. After that, might could just do listing.
    Certifications, specialties, and licenses are probably critical.

    Also, MIL may have better luck in networking than traditional resume submissions.

    Good luck, MIL! I’m rooting for you!

  120. I don't want to be an influencer...*

    Does your job require or “require” you to like/comment/post/connect with colleagues/company posts on linked in or some combination of the above?

    My last 2 jobs have done this to varying degrees and I’m curious if it’s becoming more common.

    I don’t like connecting with people until I know them better and keep my linkedin minimally active for privacy. I don’t want to look like a shill for my company either. My job is NOT a marketing role. Is this becoming more of an expectation for others?

    1. Rick Tq*

      Marketing frequently makes those requests to boost our social media traffic. When I had a Linkedin account I just ignored the requests. I never got any pushback from Marketing or management.

    2. Decidedly Me*

      Not required or “required”, but nicely requested on occasion :) There was once a contest for interactions – can’t remember the prize, but something fun or silly.

    3. RagingADHD*

      At the last agency I freelanced with, all the full time employees had given over their personal Linkedin to promotions for the company. So instead of listing their own job description or “about me,” it’s a promo for their employer’s services.

      It’s wierd and culty.

  121. Brit*

    Next month I will start a new job in government after being in academia the past few years. What are the best things to read that you would recommend? (here & elsewhere!)

  122. No name on this one*

    Today is a day I’m just fed up with this ongoing issue. Overall my company is reasonably decent…except in one area. This is a nonprofit company built on a foundation of diversity & inclusion (activism is not its main mission). But from line staff to middle management on up to director level (at least; I can speak for the VP/C-suite level), there is a distinct lack of awareness or even care about disability needs, rights, or inclusion – or even laws that need to be followed. I’m starting to feel like a very loud squeaky wheel because I keep bringing up certain issues because I’m disabled myself and there’s another visibly disabled individual in my department, plus my department serves the disabled portion of the overall population my company works with.

    Today, it started with a parking issue at one of our sites where a staff member from another department thought it was perfectly okay to let a non-disabled staff member park in a handicap space without a handicap placard because “it’s not illegal when it’s private property” (yes, it is still illegal to do so in our state). Plus I’ve been having an allergic reaction (headaches verging on migraines) to someone else’s perfume in a shared office and my manager got told by the department director in the management team meeting “we can’t tell people they’re not allowed to wear scented body products” despite it being written company policy in the employee manual.

    I’m seriously tempted to send an anonymous letter or email to our company’s VP of DEIB about the egregious lack of disability inclusion and urge for ADA awareness and disability inclusion training at all levels. I can’t contact this person directly because staff in our department get in serious trouble for speaking to higher level management about *anything* and this would essentially be a direct complaint about my grand boss (department director). But it’s also technically a whistleblower complaint because some of it is about staff who are breaking not just company policy but actual state and federal laws, so technically retaliation would be against company policy and some state laws at least…but still won’t stop it from happening.

    Someone talk me out of this or tell me there’s a better way to handle this situation…..

    1. WellRed*

      If you’re afraid to make the complaint, then don’t. But I’d seriously urge you rethink your opinion of the company as reasonably decent. They suck at accommodations, employees “get in trouble” for doing things, they aren’t true to their mission and, I don’t understand what you mean about retaliation against company policy (huh?) but maybe you meant retaliation against the complainant?

    2. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      imo, anonymous complaints are usually binned, unless it is to a dedicated whistleblower/complaint hotline.
      Does your organisation have one?

      If not and they are breaking the law wrt handicap parking spaces or anything else, then do complain to the body responsible in your state for enforcing such laws. No organisation, including a nonprofit, is above the law. Don’t feel the slightest guilt if they are fined or tied up with lawyers.

      wrt perfume: even if it is banned in the employee handbook, HR may require someone to make an official request for an accommodation before actually taking steps to enforce this.
      Also, they may not be willing/able in to ban shower gels, shampoos, washing powder etc, only “extras” like perfume, bodyspray, shaving lotions. So the accommodation might be e.g. to move you away from the smell.

  123. Mx*

    I’m feeling extremely stuck right now. I’m on a PIP because due to my chronic illnesses, I can no longer keep up with my job. Not to mention I seem to be worse at it than ever and I don’t know why. My supervisors have been no help because they just keep ignoring my health issues and comparing me to my healthier peers. There’s no way I can improve in the next two weeks, so I’m likely to get fired.

    Do I want to stay at my job? No! That place is absolutely soul-sucking and I’ve permanently injured my shoulder and am now more prone to repetitive motion injuries. I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy. Getting out of there would be a relief, genuinely.

    But I feel like I have no options after I get fired. I have no skills and I’m not good at anything. I mostly work by myself so I don’t even really have any experience working with a team. Heck, just changing jobs is kinda scary for me.

    I’m not sure a recruiter would know what to do with my health issues, and I’m not sure I’m “disabled enough” for Vocational Rehabilitation.

    Anyone else been in a similar situation? Any advice?

    1. GythaOgden*

      Yes. It stinks and I’m sorry it’s happening to you. My burnout at work culminated in dropping my boss’ audio typing playback machine and she ended up saying ‘I’m sorry for your problems, but I need someone who can be here reliably’. I didn’t understand why I was struggling really until I got diagnosed with autism the following year, but even that didn’t mean instant respite for anyone — I still had to fight and fight for my mental health, a way of getting out of my chaotic headspace and to get help to actually find another job when I was ready to work. That’s hard and I can’t promise immediate results for you but I can be here to show you that it can be done.

      There’s no doubt it was horrible and stressful and I ended up out of work for about ten years while I got back on my feet mentally.

      I can’t make the sting go away or solve any financial problems you have, but I can both empathise and sympathise and send you a warm hug through the internet. The experience made me more cognisant of what employers need out of me and my responsibility to them to sort myself out at times, but also find an employer who was supportive and friendly about issues and willing to work with me to help, which is much more possible in the public or public-adjacent sector than it is in the private sector. Things moved on while I was out of work and I had the benefit of living with my mum and dad for a while, then having them pay for a Master’s degree (cheaper here — around £4500 for a one-year course in Law Research) which I could complete while on government incapacity assistance.

      I hope you have a way of supporting yourself during the struggle, and the above is why I think I owe my parents big time for their unquestionable dedication to me. I don’t have much advice, but just popping in to commiserate. I can imagine you feel like you’re very alone at the moment, and can’t give you any concrete justice, but what I can do is extend a hand of friendship from 3000 miles away and hope and pray it gets better for you.

    2. WellRed*

      I’ve not been in your situation but you’ll qualify for unemployment and may be able to tap into career advice resources through that.

  124. California Dreamin’*

    My adult child is ready to move on from her current company after several years there. She is starting a job search and has found two openings that she’s interested in at a well regarded organization she likes. One would be a lateral move and one would be a step up that she may or may not be qualified for depending on how this organization sees the roles. I thought she should apply to both; my husband thinks that’s a terrible idea and that she should only apply to the higher level job with the idea that if they like her but don’t think she’s right for that, they could offer her the lower level role. I think this might leave her being rejected for the higher level but not in the candidate pool for the lower level. Anyone have input on simultaneously submitting applications to two roles within the same company? If it matters, my understanding is that these roles are in separate divisions in the org, so not on the same team. Probably same HR though.

  125. Soon to be Senior*

    Maybe I’m posting this too late to get a response but here goes:
    Any suggestions as to how to discern which of these roles would be best for me and my employer: Caregiver, online English as a Second Language Tutor, writer/copywriter.

    Background: I left my last role by mutual consent of me and my employer. It was an administrative role but my boss and I just did not click. I turn 60 soon and am on the cusp of retiring (my spouse is likely to do so in the next year) but I am not sure that I’m ready to do so yet. At the very least I don’t want my professional life to end on this down note.

    All three roles have their pros and cons:
    Caregiving: Have done it before, enjoyed it and have done well. It is a slight pay cut from my most recent jobs, though I just now applied for one that would be a slight pay raise. Also, while I am in very good health, I am turning 60 and am not sure what my body can handle anymore. It’s also out of the house which is both good and bad (I live in a cold-weather state).

    TEFL instructor: This would be a new one for me though I have taught in my kids’ classrooms, just not on a full-time basis. I’ve heard of a company that’s a fairly easy entry into the field. I’m taking a very basic certification class so I will be qualified if I do. The material is rather intriguing. However it is new to me and the pay that this particular company is not great, though it could be a stepping stone to others.

    Writer: It’s what my degree is in, albeit journalism. I’ve done all sorts of other kind of writing. I keep getting these social media ads saying how great and lucrative it is to be a writer but in the past I could not seem to get out of what are known as content-mills (i.e., very low paying gigs). I really don’t care about making a six-figure income but just enough to replace my most recent earnings.

    So, any advice, especially from anyone who’s done any (or all) of these roles? Any advice on how to make my decision? Or, just take the first solid offer and leave it at that?

    Additional information, if it helps: I’ve read up on the issue and I tend to believe that I am a job-hopper because of some workplace PTSD (also childhood PTSD from bullies). I’ve had some bosses that were real doozies and thus tend to leave before I’m forced out. At this point, I’ kind of looking for lower-stress work.

    Thanks in advance

    1. WellRed*

      I am a journalist. I have a solid steady gig but I’m not well paid and the industry is in huge upheaval. No one is well paid in writing and it sounds like you’re looking at … content mills or something? They pay less. A lot less. I saw a recent posting seeking to pay $100 per 500-word article. That’s 20 cents a word, which they should be embarrassed about.

      1. WellRed*

        Instead of caregiving (which I agree, your age might be a factor) have you considered companion roles? I know there are agencies that do this. You might help with meal prep, light housekeeping and shopping.

      2. Soon to be Senior*

        Thanks for your comments. I am actually trying to avoid content mills, precisely because they pay so low. Do you know whether copywriting or content writing is as well paid as the ads for the countless copywriting courses say? Is it worth pursuing?

        As to your comment about companion roles, I’m looking into them as well but from what I’ve seen in my area (midwestern U.S.), the pay is similar or slightly less than caregiving, so if I go that route, I’ll go for the one that pays the most.

        I guess the gist of my original question is how do I choose among three very different paths?

        Thanks again.

    2. RagingADHD*

      The ads that say that writing is easy and lucrative are trying to sell you a course, which is far more easy and lucrative than actually writing. There are folks who have a niche and are doing fine, but I would not advise anyone who needs stable income to try to start a writing career right now. It has always been intensely competitive and unstable, and right now I know a lot of experienced people who are hurting for work.

Comments are closed.