open thread – May 4-5, 2018

by Alison Green on May 4, 2018

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue.

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  1. going anon today*

    So we had a department meeting a week ago and there was a big shakeup and reorg, with people moving into new roles. We have a new reorg ever year, and it never works out. Our teams have a lot of dead weight and people who push their projects off on others, throw people under the bus, or who disappear for hours on end and are always late and sloppy with their work. Management does nothing, and no matter how much a concern or complaint is voiced, nothing changes.

    Culture has gotten really toxic in the department over the past year, and in the meeting I asked if this new reorg meant people were going to be held to the same standards and be held accountable for their own work. Apparently this caused some drama and some people complained that I was too abrasive and it made them scared of me and that they didn’t want to work with me or be around me. Other people, however, thanked me for asking the question they were too scared to ask.

    My manager pulled me into a conference room the other day to tell me all of this and to tell me not to voice any opinions in group meetings from now on, and to my embarrassment, I started crying (I’m not sure if hearing that I was abrasive and aggressive and scary upset me or if they were tears of frustration and anger). We’re also an open office so everyone could see him talk to me, see me crying, and see me try to keep it together afterwards. My manager’s manager came over to me hours later and did the same thing, and it was another round of emotions and everyone seeing. I’m mortified. Both managers were men and I’m now horrified I ugly cried, but that they’ll think I’m a hysterical, emotional woman who can’t keep it together when she gets criticism.

    This is not the first time I’ve been at a job where I’ve been told that I shouldn’t voice any opinions or that if I have a complaint or concern, I shouldn’t speak about it in a group setting. It’s also not the first time I’ve been told I’m too opinionated or abrasive and it’s been insinuated that I should change my personality to be more mellow or quiet. I’m always told I’m a great worker and having opinions doesn’t make management think any less of me, but that I should keep my head down.

    The worst part is that I’m always around men who make the same suggestions or have similar personality types and they’re always applauded for being strong leaders and advocating for new opportunities or individual accountability, but as a woman, I’m always told I’m being too angry or intimidating. I’m honestly so tired and burnt out of being in jobs where I’m constantly being told to settle down and be seen and not heard. Where I’m constantly told I’m one of the best employees, but when asked for my feelings, they just want me to agree with everything they say. And I’m tired of being in a workplace where they care more about hurt feelings of people not doing their work than the frustration of people working two jobs to make up for dead weight on the team.

    I’ve been looking for a new job for awhile and have been interviewing lately, but this was the last straw and I’m honestly ready to walk in to the office on Monday morning and quit. Part of me worries they’ll think it’s a tantrum if I quit so soon after I was reprimanded, but the other part of me can’t mentally or physically walk into that office on Monday and go back to my normal self and pretend everything is ok.

    1. going anon today*

      I didn’t realize my comment would be so long. Sorry. The short version is: I asked a question in a meeting, was told my question was abrasive and meant people were now scared of me, management reprimanded me twice in one day in front of everyone, I cried, and I’m a mental, physical, and emotional wreck whenever I have to go into the office.

      1. Luna*

        Ugh, them claiming to be “scared” of you is so childish and ridiculous.

        It’s also really not okay for managers to tell you to not voice opinions ever. Giving feedback about the tone or timing of feedback is fair game, but to tell an employee to just keep their mouth shut at all times is not okay.

        That being said it is probably in your best interest to just not engage with them. Your work environment sounds highly toxic and that will not change. It’s good that you’ve been looking for other jobs; take the weekend to decompress and put this behind you. Best to wait until you have another job before quitting.

      2. Jesca*

        I just went through this!!!! The same thing! And I called it out so hard that even in this sexist place that backpedaled and backpedaled hard!

        BUT the first time it was “brought to my attention” that grown ass men in management stated they wanted to “run out of the room” because I was so “intimidating” with my calm but firm disagreement over something that only affects my job, I did get emotional myself. And then I hit back hard. Very hard. I pointed out how it certainly looks and how I am not the only woman who feels this way. And how there are only a handful of females in any position of power here.

        But the truth is, I hit back because I am just so EXHAUSTED with the status quo of this crap. This is 2018 and male managers SHOULD be and NEED to be trained in appropriate ways to interact with women in the work place.

        If you hit back, good. If not, I don’t blame you either because no one wants to go from “abrasive” to “bitch” when you have no choice but to be reliant on the chauvinists for money.

        1. Chaordic One*

          When you tell them things nicely you are ignored or dismissed, and when you tell them things more forcefully, you’re an abrasive bitch. It’s a no win situation.

        2. Mike C.*

          I really, really get sick and tired of fair but direct disagreement being characterized as “attacking” or “intimidation”.

          It’s not. Grow a spine and grow the f*ck up.

      3. Consulting Gal*

        I have had to deal with that critique before from managers but when I tone check with mentors who are in the same meeting their feedback is that I sounded professional. Are you by any chance WOC? We are sometimes perceived as more aggressive even though if someone else said it would show leadership qualities. or some other BS. Just thought I would ask mainly because you used the word ‘Scared’.

        1. Jesca*

          Haha the word “scared” is like the #1 indicator that sexism or racism is occuring when someone is just voicing an opinion or “passionately” making an argument. Scary is throwing pens or threatening people. Women standing up and asking questions isn’t scary. If it is a tone issue, it can seem off putting or unprofessional or not knowing time and place. But that word “scary”? HUGE indicator of what is happening.

          1. Lindsay J*

            This. Exactly.

            Unless you are being physically forceful, it’s not scary and people saying that they are scared is pretty indicative of “I don’t like this because I feel like [women/POC/other marginalized group] should not be voicing their opinions about this and someone not behaving the way I expect them to makes me uncomfortable.”

        2. going anon today*

          I’m not a WOC, but I am a queer woman who is the daughter of immigrants with a very ethnic last name (Slavic) in a sea of Very English names, and I’ve gotten pushback on “being aggressive” when I do things like asking people to stop commenting on how much easier it’d be if I changed my last name to something easy to pronounce.

          It’s not the same thing at all in terms of workplace issues, I know, but I thought the same thing when I heard “scary” and in fact, one of my WOC coworkers mentioned after the drama went down that she’d been called “scary” when she asked how long a system would be down for repairs.

            1. going anon today*

              Yeah, it kind of sucks and “renaming” people to Anglicized names has such an awful history for so many different types of people.

              Of the 40 people in my department, it’s me with my Slavic name and another coworker who has a long Indian last name. She and I both get comments about our names fairly frequently. Everyone else has a short, Western European last name that is relatively common.

          2. Totally Minnie*

            Geez, Anon, I’m sorry. Your workplace sounds ridiculously toxic in both racist and sexist ways, and I totally get why you want to quit. I hope you find your way out soon.

          3. Consulting Gal*

            UGH! Change your last name??? one of my personal pet peeves is when people ask can they give me a nickname. My name is only 2 syllables? but you can pronounce and discuss Tchaikovsky ? *end Rant* lol

          5. BP*

            I had an employee who was Polish and nobody could pronounce his name if they saw it on a letterhead (sounded like “Kolmanachinskavik” but with Y’s, CK’s, etc). His wife was American and said it took her a year before she could spell it properly on checks.

            You will just have to learn to laugh about this stuff. If you don’t then eventually you will have a manager or coworker who is really terrible, far more terrible than just joking about your name and it will eat you up.

            1. critter*

              I disagree. My last name is short but difficult, so I’m 100% understanding when someone mispronounces or misspells it. Heck, my boyfriend of eight years has trouble pronouncing it unless he just heard it said aloud, and I don’t mind at all. It’s pretty funny, in fact. But if someone asked me to change my name to make it easier for them? Heck no.

              (Never mind the fact that I’m pretty sure the last name was already Anglicized several generations ago when my family immigrated to the US from Poland.)

        3. Chaordic One*

          Yeah, “scared.”

          Unless you have a gun in your purse, there really isn’t a reason for anyone to be scared, is there?

          1. Lindsay J*

            I mean you can be scary in the workplace without having a gun, or without physically harming people. Yelling at or berating people, shows of force like throwing things or pushing or hitting inanimate objects, etc, can all be scary and legitimate reasons to be scared of someone in a workplace. Especially when considering a lot of people have experienced prior abuse, etc, in their work or home lives.

            However, it doesn’t sound like the OP was doing any of those things. So scared is kind of a ridiculous word for people to use about them in that case. And pretty indicative of some other issue being really at hand.

            1. only acting normal*

              Oddly there’s someone where I work who *has* taken (righteous) anger and frustration out on inanimate office furniture – and he’s not in the least bit scary. (Seriously, I’d trust him well before a lot of other people here).
              *I* however (5”2’, 130lb woman) am utterly terrifying when I stop asking nicely and *tell* someone to do their bloody job.

        4. Bea W*

          I am a white woman, and people still get “scared”. I’m not even physically imposing, very slightly built, and could probably be easily carried out of the room like a sack of potatoes. Scared? Really? Of what exactly? Being exposed as incompetent or even just less skilled and knowledgeable than a woman?

          I’ve even been told to pull back on my performance because it might make other people look bad. If my doing things that are basic to my job makes other people look bad, the problem isn’t me.

      4. C*

        Ugh. I’m sorry. And sorry to say that you’re not alone. I had a similar experience, only I didn’t find out that I had been “aggressive and defensive and unfriendly” (in literally ONE meeting), until after they announced that I was being demoted, and one of my (white, older, male) subordinates being promoted over me. (And they took similar actions toward at least two other women in the company in the same 6-month period.)

        For me, I did quit within a couple of weeks. I did take a little time to make sure I acted out of reason, rather than my initial reaction. And I had other financial options at the time. I tried to make it clear why was leaving with a resignation letter, which I submitted to not just my boss, but relevant VP-level staff; although, I didn’t call out the sexism explicitly. (Sidebar: Having a sympathetic, but more objective, outside person read it first was essential. My version 1 was treading toward manifesto. He helped me be succinct, but pointed.) I’d say, give it a little more time time to reflect and see if you can numb them out; continue to take their money until you have another job lined up. But if, after some reflection, it is THAT toxic and if you can financially swing it, don’t be afraid of leaving simply because of what they might think. I promise that they will make up their own distorted narrative about you, regardless of what you choose to do for you. So, put yourself first and control what you can.

        I love the comment of Jesca who actually took them to task on the sexism of it all. I was worried about working in a small industry and getting labeled as litigious; but I wish I’d had the wherewithal at the time to do what she did.

        1. Shop Girl*

          You should also file a report with your state’s DOL. Maybe it would not help you but you can’t show a pattern if no one ever reports

      5. Technical_Kitty*

        Poor muffins are scared of you. Little darlings need their teddies and nap.

        Call out this BS. And get a different job, you work with morons.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      This sounds like an absolutely terrible situation, but you should try to stick it out until you have another offer in hand.

      As someone who isn’t afraid to speak up and say what I think, I can absolutely relate to your frustrations over being told not to do so, especially when you see male colleagues doing the same thing. The best thing you can do is keep your head down and focus on getting out of there.

      1. Argh!*

        “but you should try to stick it out until you have another offer in hand.”

        …. or until having enough money saved up for a break of a few months. It will take time to heal from such an abusive workplace.

    3. A Teacher*

      I would maintain professionalism but seriously push back against this if possible. i.e. I wouldn’t be told to sit down and shut up–unless its a complete deal breaker where you can lose your job. It is why there is still a glass ceiling for women.

      1. going anon today*

        They refused to fire someone who used slurs against another colleague and only fired a sexual harasser when someone outside the department complained about it. Then again, they “let go” of one of the women in the department who complained about sexual harassment because she was “a complainer” and “aggressive”.

        I brought up how I didn’t think I’d be called scary or abrasive or aggressive if I wasn’t a woman and they just kept saying it wasn’t about my gender and the people who complained didn’t have anything to say about my gender. I don’t think these two managers understand that someone or something can still be gendered and sexist even if the actual words gender or woman/female aren’t said.

        1. Snark*

          What you said about holding people accountable was abrasive, though. Not saying it was wrong, but it was really harsh, and really, really not your business.

          1. Jesca*

            Her point isn’t what she said. What is considered “not your business” depends mostly on the culture of the company. If a man would have said it and there would have been a different outcome, then it is sexist. Our company does this crap restructuring all the time and no firing. Moral has tanked and people are leaving. They are now actually having these open discussion meetings with VPs here to express this sort of thing. If a woman brought this up in a meeting now, it wouldn’t be considered abrasive. If a man, at any time, brought up anything it would have never ever been considered abrasive no matter their role, the context, or the type of meeting.

            When you sit back and watch males get away with things you are then told makes you “scary”, you cannot even imagine how demoralizing and patronizing that is.

            1. Snark*

              I don’t disagree, at all. It’s gendered as hell and Going Anon Today is 100% justified in wanting to walk, because they’re handling it badly and hamfistedly as well as sexistly (not a word, roll with me) and in service of maintaining a crappy status quo.

              But. She’s probably getting called out on it in a way that a man would not be, AND it was also something that should rightfully be called out of anybody said it, because it was not an appropriate, constructive, or kind thing to say even if it was true.

              The ideal outcome here is not “it’s not considered abrasive no matter who says it,” it’s “everybody gets taken to task for being abrasive regardless of gender.”

                1. Triplestep*

                  I agree, too. It was an unanswerable question and it should not have been asked in a meeting. (Seriously, how could this have been answered in any kind of real way? They were put on the spot.) But they handled it poorly afterwards, and a man would not have been taken to task over it.

              2. Jesca*

                Meh. Like I said. It depends on context of the meeting itself.

                But, I also don’t always agree with Alison on these types of things when racism or gender are at play because it is so systemic. All of it needs to be pointed out at the moment. This company obviously has a culture where this is ok, so she definitely has the right to stand up and say what is good for the goose in these situations.

                1. Snark*

                  Eh. I think that if you’re asking questions with that kind of tone, something fundamental is broken as far as morale and the office culture of professionalism and respect goes. You’re basically calling both management and your coworkers incompetent in one fell swoop.

                2. Jadelyn*

                  @Snark But tbh it sounds like that’s very much the case already – the fundamental culture of this company is broken as hell, and at that point, someone needs to be calling it out, even if that’s by saying something that, in a normal and sane office dynamic, would be abrasive as hell.

                3. Luna*

                  I agree with Jadelyn- this idea that it is nobody’s business but the managers is what leads to a lot of these toxic workplaces. It impacts everyone so it is their business, even if it is not in their best interest to speak up and point that out. But good managers will recognize how these types of policies & decisions do impact all employees.

              3. AMPG*

                I agree that it’s a fairly antagonistic thing to say, but it sounds like the company is being badly mismanaged at the expense of the few competent workers. I don’t think it’s inappropriate or not constructive to point out that the reorg places an unfair burden on those who are already pulling their weight and then some. Now, it might have professional consequences, but so can anything.

              4. Mike C.*

                I honestly don’t see these sorts of tough questions as abrasive or unprofessional so long as the thing being questioned is actually important or the problem is well known or posses a massive risk. I’ve asked (and been asked) questions in these sorts of tones multiple times and it’s really nothing more than a direct way addressing significant issues. Otherwise it’s really easy to let incredibly important issues fester and linger.

                I’d much rather people risk being seen as abrasive than serious problems go unresolved.

                1. going anon today*

                  That’s how I looked at it. It’s a serious problem. People have left over it. I have other coworkers who routinely cry because they’re so stressed and bringing up concerns in private to managers does nothing and we’re just told “we don’t have insight into what goes on behind closed doors” or “it’s being handled”, but that line has been said each year with no end result. Nothing changes.

                  I’m not the first person to bring this up in a department meeting. It’s been brought up for years.

                  My frustration is for my own situation, but also because I feel bad that so many of my coworkers are miserable and the people making them miserable (all at the same level) or the issues causing the problems are never addressed. We just get a yearly reorg that makes everything worse.

          2. going anon today*

            Sure, it was probably abrasive. But a male colleague asked the same thing later in the meeting and he hasn’t been talked to about it.

            1. Beth C.*

              If you have any leg to stand on it’s that one.

              I mean, this sucks, and I think you really do need to just leave, but the best way to point this out is to say, “So will you be telling Steve to not bring this up again as well?”
              It will probably follow with “Well, no one mentioned feeling uncomfortable about what Steve said.” “Well he said the exact same thing I did…” Many excuses and comments will follow, but just keep coming back to that. Eventually it gets to “This is starting to seem like it isn’t about the comments at all…” and document every discussion you have about it.

              Like a few others said, you may want to drop a line to your Dept of Labor either before or after you leave. It probably won’t help you, but as others have said you can’t establish a pattern if no one drops the first data point.

          3. LKW*

            I disagree -if your performance is based on being able to complete a task and is dependent on someone else finishing their tasks – then they should be held accountable for finishing their tasks as much as you are held accountable for finishing yours.

            When person B in this story isn’t held accountable -then what’s the point of holding anyone accountable?

            I think it’s a perfectly valid question.

            1. Snark*

              You, and Luna above, are not wrong. But it’s a Pyrrhic victory if it just makes a point and shames a few whiners and then gets a finger shaken in your face. But even – maybe especially – when dealing with toxic, bad management, how the message is delivered is going to determine what it accomplishes. If all you want to do is get in a dig and screw the torpedoes, rock on. But if you’re hoping for action to be taken that actually results in some accountability, then how that question is asked matters.

              And it may be past that point! In which case, fck it!

          5. Triple Anon*

            But their reaction to it was more out of line. That’s the issue. They called her names and asked her to stop voicing opinions in meetings. And she didn’t say anything unique; male co-workers had expressed similar views and received praise for it. That’s the other issue.

          6. Sunday Anon*

            I don’t agree. I think it’s a fair, but tough, question to ask in a group meeting. Management doesn’t like to hear this kind of question (and I am management and work closely with layer of management above me) and some managers/directors/execs would be ticked off/embarrassed to have it come up in a group meeting.

            But just because someone in management doesn’t want to hear about a problem doesn’t mean it’s not a problem. Just because someone asks a question a manager doesn’t like or is asked in a way that seems counterproductive or a question that feels like a personal attack on a company’s management style, doesn’t mean it’s not valid.

            Sometimes this question would lead to a discussion about, yes, there will be individual meetings about performance, or here’s how we will run things on a daily basis after this reorg. But for me, if I felt blindsided, yes, I’d be ticked, but I’d realize there’s probably more than one person that feels this way, and I’d probably go talk them about the substance of the concern.

            2. Beth C.*

              I think it is also a perfectly legitimate question, albeit one ost folks wouldn’t have the guts to ask.

              It is also a question that ruffles feathers, so while it is fair to possibly expect the stink eye in the kitchen for a few days from folks who feel they were called out. It does not, though, justify being told to pipe down and not have opinions as long as your phrasing didn’t include yelling or swearing or anything like that.

        2. Lora*

          1) You work in a horrible place and I’m sorry you’re going through this.
          2) Don’t quit without something else lined up. Keep your head down and do your job even if that means answering only direct questions and speaking only when spoken to. Clearly these people aren’t going to hear anything you say anyway.

        3. RVA Cat*

          This place is a toxic cesspool that you can’t fix.
          Do you have any PTO you can use soon? Don’t quit yet, but see about taking a vacation even if it’s just to job search.

          1. JustAGirlTryingToMakeIt*

            I’m so sorry you had to go through this. I’ve been through something very similar and it is awful. The best advice I can give you (and what I’m taking myself) is try your best to get out of there. Someone with your talent doesn’t deserve to be in a situation where you can’t speak your opinion. You did nothing wrong here.

            Best of luck my friend.

        4. General Ginger*

          I’m sorry you work in a toxic disgusting slime pit, anon. Everything you’ve shared about the situation makes it pretty damn clear that it’s about gender, and it looks like it’s just too entrenched into company culture. I wouldn’t quit without something lined up, but I hope you can get out of the ASAP, anon.

    4. Jules the Third*

      Deep breath, and internet hugs if you want them.

      If you want advice: disengage and hunker down – do your job, stop covering for other people, let the chips fall where they will. You’re already taking action to leave, plan that beautiful resignation letter where you Name Names (eg, Groot in accounting just plays on his computer while Gamora fixes the ship). Prep your transition plan and personal stuff, so that you have it all on a thumb drive / ready for a box / already home when you turn in the letter.

      Document Document Document

    5. Mananana*

      I’m sorry you’re going through this, it sounds like a really stressful place to work.

      Your question “if this new reorg meant people were going to be held to the same standards and be held accountable for their own work” really wasn’t a question, though. It sounds like you were making an indictment against management. And if I were a part of that meeting, I’d probably find it abrasive as well. And your management probably took it as a dig (a deserved dig, but they may not see it like that). But toxic workplaces are notorious for bringing out the worst in people; sounds like it’s time to get out of there while you can.

      I wish you nothing but the best.

      1. Zoro*

        “abrasive” is a bullshit.

        Either LW comments were true, so don’t shoot the messenger, or false, in which case sack them for being malignant.

    6. Kalamet*

      I’m so sorry you are going through this. The whole situation sounds very similar to my last job, where low performers were allowed to slack off and high performers were taken advantage of. I (a woman in a male-dominated field) also cried at several points during that role, because I was so stressed out.

      Unfortunately, there is no solution for a toxic company culture where management isn’t willing to change. I’d suggest you scale back your emotional efforts toward this role and start focusing on the _next_ one, as much as you can. Spend your time outside of work taking care of yourself, starting this weekend. Try to do something fun to take your mind off of it (it’s hard, I know!), and treat yourself to something delicious. I started therapy while I was job hunting and stuck at the toxic place, which helped some.

      You’re the only one who can tell whether quitting is the best option (in terms of money, mental health, etc.), but keeping your job usually makes finding a new one easier. Best of luck!

      1. The New Wanderer*

        Yes. Normally I would think you should stick it out until you have the next job lined up, but the comments about your mental health and how taxing it is to be there, sounds like it’s doing more harm than good to stay. I think that’s a valid reason to offer in interviews if/when asked why you left (I know there’s some good wording on this site about referring to toxic workplaces without directly calling them out, like “no room to progress” or “continuous reorganizations leave my job in question or change my job duties.” If you can afford to do it, get out.

        If management sees it as rage-quitting after their comments, they’re the ones with their heads in the sand. The last straw for you isn’t that they ‘called you out’ for asking questions in a meeting. It’s that it has finally become unavoidably clear that things will not improve. Leave them to deal with the slackers and one fewer hard worker.

        1. Windchime*

          I have to agree with TNW. If you can afford to be out of work for awhile, leave. I should have done so with my last job. I had to take a 10 week FMLA leave to deal with extreme anxiety over that job (I was unable to do anything but cry and I feared that I would hurt myself). I cried on the day I had to go back, but I went back. I tried to keep my head down and just work, but when I found a new job 3 weeks later and gave my notice, they booted me out the door that day. Because THEY wanted to be in control of when I left, not me. It was demoralizing and upsetting. I am so, so, so glad to be out of there.

        2. Wendy Darling*

          Yup. I quit a job that was demolishing my mental health. I was fortunate enough that I could afford to and I was out of work for almost a year so my savings is kind of a hot mess. But it was still worth it. The job was AWFUL and it was destroying me. No regrets.

    8. Lupin Lady*

      That is a horrible situation and I’m so sorry you’re going through this!
      I have no real advice other than to have faith that you can push through. It seems like you’ve been there long enough to know that this how it is at the company, so if possible just go to work, go through the motions while pressing hard in your job search. Take the weekend to try to decompress.
      And for what it’s worth, I’ve ugly cried in front of male bosses and it’s turned out okay. It’s embarrassing, but not the end of the world.

    9. Snark*

      This is a tough one. It sounds like a toxic and dysfunctional workplace where underachievers are given lots of rope, and that’s a tough place to be if you’re a results-oriented, ambitious person. And I totally, totally get that. I’m the same way, and it’s really hard for me to put up with people who don’t whip on it.

      That said, you’ve apparently gotten a lot of feedback about the frequency, tone, and content of your public comments, in multiple positions. And frankly, “I asked if this new reorg meant people were going to be held to the same standards and be held accountable for their own work,” is….well, it’s a real abrasive comment, verging on offensive and combative. If that captures a tone you use regularly or frequently in your public comments, it is not surprising that it caused drama and strife, and it’s not surprising that you were asked to tone comments like that down. It was a pretty offensive thing to say, and how people are evaluated is basically not your business, because you’re not a manager and asking that was out of line. Even if true.

      In other discussions about this topic, I’ve asked OPs if the tone and content of their questions is a) constructive and b) relevant for a public forum like a meeting.

      Under the a) column, depending on your tone, a question (even a good, constructive question!) can come off either like “hey, this isn’t clear to me, can you add context?” or it can read as “I think you’re an idiot who covers for slackers, so let me yank a few blocks out of the Jenga tower of your decision.” That kind of questioning pisses off even the most fair-minded boss and burns capital at an amazing rate. Second-guessing the boss is something to do very judiciously, when it’s very important and you’re certain it will be constructive and important. I generally take the approach, myself, of taking serious concerns or questions to email after the fact. Even if it’s a good question about an aspect they truly didn’t think through, I don’t want to put my boss on the spot by grilling them in person, with an audience of their subordinates. And it lets me articulate my question in a more thoughtful and considered manner than tossing things off verbally. It generally ends up feeling more productive and less like a pretentious know it all demanding that the boss justify and defend their decisions.

      Regarding b), forum, there’s a lot of questions that are not necessarily relevant to an entire group, which could alienate some members of the entire group, or are just really far off in the weeds of particulars and details. If your question falls into this category, take it offline – a private meeting or an email or an IM chat or whatever. Some stuff is good and relevant but isn’t really fodder for a big meeting. I’d ask myself, is this something that everybody at the meeting will benefit from knowing the answer to, or am I satisfying my own curiosity or desire to make a point? Because if this is just my personal need, that can wait, if it needs to be satisfied at all.

      Boiled down? As I said in the thread I will link shortly: Pick your battles, pick your forum, and spend your capital wisely, lest you irritate the crap out of your bosses and colleagues.

      2. BRR*

        I agree that if this comment is an example of the OP’s tone, that it’s not surprising they were asked to tone it down. This is all great advice that I need to adopt myself. I understand how frustrating a workplace like this is. I’m in one myself and the stress and unprofessionalism has really taken a toll on my filter, but a department meeting isn’t the place to address your coworkers’ poor performance and the phrasing isn’t constructive (I would recommend Alison’s new book which covers this situation and provides gentler but still direct wording).

      3. Jesca*

        Except when you are a woman and men are allowed to behave the same way … I get what you are trying to say, but the LW has actually provided enough *other* evidence to prove she works in a sexist place. Also, when you work in a sexist industry that is heavily incestuous with “trading employees” the cultures in all those places are actually quite the same. It is why places like Google have policies they do now, because this crap is so embedded in some industries that it is literally not even a glass ceiling. It is usually a pretty clear brick wall men smack with you every day so you can “know your place”. I think that maybe this is one of those things people outside of the women working in this industries don’t actually quite get.

        1. Snark*

          Absolutely. She does work in a sexist place and she’s being dealt with in a gendered, crappy way that serves only to maintain the egos and pride of management and slackers. I can understand why she’s frustrated and annoyed at them.

          But saying stuff like that should get one a talking to, whatever their gender, in a well-managed workplace, and the issues I’m raising about judging tone, appropriate forum, and capital when raising substantive questions in meetings tend to apply in any workplace.

          1. Snark*

            And, I should add, those issues will be relevant and worth meditating on even in her next, hopefully much better-managed and less misogynist workplace..

            1. General Ginger*

              I’d hope that in a better managed and less misogynist workplace she won’t have to deal with the same issues, but I agree with your overall message.

          2. Double A*

            I think in a well managed place she probably wouldn’t need to say something like that because people would be held accountable, reorgs would be purposeful and productive, and there wouldn’t be a ton of dead weight bringing down morale.

            I also bet she said something like this in a public meeting because she knew saying something like this private would fall on less than deaf ears. It’s not the best approach, but it makes sense why a toxic workplace would make it more likely for someone to take that approach out of frustration.

            But this organization sounds unsalvageable. I agree with comments that the OP should keep her head down, stop picking up slack for others, and job hunt like crazy. Try to emotionally detatch from the job. If your employer offers an EAP, use it to help you cope with this period.

      4. going anon today*

        This is the only time I’ve ever said something of this nature in a department meeting. The only other questions I’ve ever asked in such meetings have been things like timelines for new clients or if we know how they’re realigning sales teams to projects teams, etc.

        Whenever I get talked to about “being abrasive” it’s been for things like writing “Could you get this document to me by EOD Monday” instead of “Hey, Alex, when you have a second, could you please get this document to me when it’s convenient?” (actual example) or for being in a meeting and asking, “Can we work with the Teapot Department to expedite this?” or “So we know if Steve is on track to finish by the deadline” (also examples)

        I know it was probably abrasive, but I’m honestly so tired of a department that basically tells me to do other people’s work and not complain about it and basically not say anything until called upon. Also, a male coworker asked something similar and was not talked to, so I’m really thinking it comes down to gender and the fact that I’m pretty sure the coworkers who complained (at least one woman and one man that I’m aware of) are friends with my male coworker.

        1. Snark*

          I should have made it more explicit – please take from that what feels actionable and disregard the rest! That’s just some of my accumulated thoughts on the general topic and I should have emphasized that. With the knowledge that that was your first actually abrasive comment in a meeting, a lot of that will clearly not apply.

          The comments about other comments that were “abrasive” were some bullshit. There is no friggin’ way “Could you get this document to me by EOD Monday” is even unprofessional, much less abrasive. I do understand asking you to reel in in for the one comment about accountability, but stating your needs clearly is not something you need to apologize for or silence.

          So yeah, get out. These people suck.

        2. Mom of two daughters*

          Read this book – Feminist Fight Club – by Jessica Bennett. It will validate what you are experiencing and give you some action plans. It’s a fairly easy read, although the content sometimes gets my heart racing and my head pounding. I’ve been in the work world for 35 years and can’t believe we (women) are still dealing with this. I have two daughters (23 and 19) and they will be getting this book for Christmas. They are entering fields that are slowly moving away from being heavily male-centered (medical related) but I want them to be prepared when they encounter this type of behavior. You have my sincere sympathy and warm internet hugs that things will get better. Make sure to take care of yourself.

          1. Wakeen Teaptots, LTD*

            You and I are contemporaries. I am in senior management. I can’t believe I still have to deal with this $%#@ We just went through a year long site redesign where most people involved were men and what the ever living hell is this #$%@. I am no shrinking violet but I had to give myself pep talks before meetings to affirm that I would not allow my opinions or directives to be dismissed or talked over. What is the year again? I hope the next gen clears this up because our gen sure tried to. But I am tired! :)

            1. soon 2 be former fed*

              Forty years in the wild for me. I am gobsmacked that so little cultural progress has been made in the workplace, and that assertive women like myself are still catching flack for it, moreso for WOC like me (it is so blatant in my office). Maybe by the time my DD’s career plays out, things will have evolved.

        3. Lindsay J*

          I just have to say I feel you here.

          I would up switching fields completely and feel much more at home in the area I am now (aviation, working with mostly blue collar workers) because it just does not come naturally and takes so much effort for me to pretty up my language and requests to be nice and indirect.

          So, it’s definitely not just you. And there are places where direct requests are acceptable (and in fact, preferred. If there’s a plane grounded due to a missing part, people don’t want others spending the time reading or writing a huge missive. They just want, “Send P/N XYZABC to KIAD on next available flight. TO to follow shortly.”)

          I hope you find a place where you fit in better, because your current job does sound terrible and toxic.

        4. Maude Lebowski*

          I _know_ I’ve come off too abrasive in the past… lots of examples in my head about which I cringe re working self 15-20 yrs ago. Going anon today, these are most def NOT the kind of comments that fit a cringeworthy category. However, in that Alex example it seems you are being asked to use what’s assumed to be / taken as more feminized language e.g. using “just” and “wondering”, which hedges the question as if you need to be careful and delicate that you’re … I don’t know… imposing by asking if you can get a doc you need to do your work? [Was looking for e.g.s from mainstream media, but something like this https://www.procurious.com/procurement-news/stop-writing-like-girl-workplace%5D. So you were direct and that example re Alex is a pile of crap. I am sorry you are going through this – it sucks when some people get away with doing nothing and others do everything.

        5. General Ginger*

          That example is 100% gendered bullshit. You shouldn’t have to couch a simple work request in “when you have a second/when it’s convenient/pretty please” when there’s a looming deadline (or even when there isn’t).

        6. mark132*

          If you are being called out for adding a requested deadline to a deliverable. That’s BS. That’s not abrasive, that’s what I’ve always thought of as professional.

      5. Observer*

        In other contexts, I would agree with you. Timing and delivery ARE important.

        But, the reaction tells me that it really isn’t likely the the OP’s tone is really the problem. Having both the manager AND the manager’s manager come down on her, is by itself a bit eyebrow raising. Furthermore, it’s just totally not credible that she actually made people AFRAID of her. Even if she was truly rude and abrasive, that’s just pretty ridiculous.

        And that’s all before the OP’s further clarification.

      6. Anon Accountant*

        Agreed! When Going Anon has been given feedback in multiple positions saying the same thing it’s worth considering if the jobs were a bad fit or if there was good constructive criticism there. Yes the current job is toxic but I agree there’s some validity in it was too abrasive for the meeting.

    10. Llama Grooming Coordinator*

      Oh my God, I’m so sorry.

      I’m going to say what you’re probably thinking and what everyone else is probably going to say, but your company is full of evil bees. Hopefully you do get a great offer and a great job, because it sounds like your current company is absolutely terrible (although…honestly, it doesn’t surprise me much anymore). Hopefully you have a wonderful weekend and you can face everything on Monday.

    11. thelettermegan*

      I’m so sorry you have to work with these losers. Good for you for looking for a better job. I hope you find one soon.

      If I were you, I’d take some ‘me’ time this weekend, and then starting Monday, just keep repeating internally “I’m only here for the paycheck”. If someone does something you don’t like, put your head down and keep doing your work. Funnel your energy into finding the next job, instead of wondering why your work environment is the way it is. It is the way it is because those people are losers and you have better things to do than fly around with those turkeys.

    12. Not So NewReader*

      Oh my. In some ways you remind me of ME. I needed to learn how to pick better work places and I needed to learn to get out quicker when I found I had misjudged.

      I think you know that you have had bosses who are predisposed to saying those types of things to you. The one bit of light I see here is that they probably tell every woman this. It’s got very little to do with you and everything to do with being a woman. Honestly, I would put that part about being abrasive, etc to one side for a minute here. You can deal with that in a bit. When we work with polite and fair minded people it is easier to be a polite and fair minded person ourselves. We tend to go toward what we see.

      Your biggest problem here is that there are slackers and the bosses have no intention of fixing this ever. Check back with this company in five years, if they are not out of business, they will still be reorganizing every year in the hopes that the slackers won’t slack anymore. So five years from now the slackers will still be slacking and the company will still be doing it’s annual reorg. Each person in this story has their plan, their ONLY plan, and they are going to stick to it.

      Here’s a tip my wise friend gave me: In some work places (and in life)we can stand up for something because we think it’s the right thing to do. However, that standing up/speaking out comes at a price. Before we speak we need to be sure we are willing to pay the price. Don’t know what the price is? oooo- that is A PROBLEM. So the rule of thumb here is to brace ourselves for strong blowback. In short, make sure it’s a hill we want to die on.

      I’d argue that you picked a good hill to die on. I think the blowback surprised you. I bet it won’t in the future. You’ll pick your hills and you will have a plan for what to do it it goes poorly.

      So now you have proof beyond reasonable doubt that these people are acting like idiots. Good bosses do not reduce employees to tears and they do not tag team each other taking turns reducing the employee to tears.

      Your last paragraph: you have this set up so that YOU can’t win. Which is very similar to what your bosses do to you. Decide to stop worrying about what some INCOMPETENT managers think. You know, if this turns and they suddenly like you again, what you will have is that Incompetent Managers like you. I am not too sure if that is an accomplishment. I’d be concerned if a Good Boss did not like me, but a Loser Boss, why worry about it.

      Let’s think about options here.
      I have been in a similar sinking boat and what I landed on was giving my two weeks notice. I thought it was a good combination message, “I am not scared to work two more weeks with you, but I am not going to have your bs in my life, either.” I kept my chin up as they kept asking me to stay and I kept saying NO loud and clear.
      This is not your only option. You could call up and quit over the phone, if you want. You have to live with you, so I think your decision should be based on this question, “What do I do now, that in ten years I will still think it was a good choice?”

      Take care of you first and foremost, because these people will just take care of themselves without regard to your concerns.

      1. going anon today*

        This was such a great, nice comment. I’m going to save it for future reference. Thanks so much!

        1. Triple Anon*

          Exactly. I was in a similar place once. It was so bad, it was taking a toll on my health. I quit without anything lined up. I was in a position to do that because I had savings and no dependent children or animals. It’s obviously different for everyone. But I’m really glad I made that choice. Things have been a little rocky. But I’m so much better off than when I worked there. Take care of yourself. Don’t put up with abuse. Your career will sort itself out.

    13. a*

      Just here to offer commiseration – I was removed from a board that determines our policy because I am “too argumentative.” Never mind that they claimed to have wanted people with strong opinions and differing perspectives when they set up the committee. Because it has no real effect on my actual job, and because I’ve been her for 23 years, I can just laugh about it now. Plus, I recap the story and reference it at every opportunity.

      When I was a lot younger, I was told to be more diplomatic and change my tone (which was code for “don’t call out people for doing their jobs poorly because their feelings will get hurt.”) The woman who advised me was a) telling me something she sincerely believed would be helpful and b) a women who had moved up pretty well in a male-dominated field. But I don’t take instruction on that sort of thing well (and I never wanted to be a manager), so it fell on deaf ears. 20 years down the line, I have learned to soften my delivery a little…but not much. If you don’t want my opinion, don’t ask for opinions. :)

      Don’t let anyone make you feel like honesty is a character fault and truthfulness is an undesirable characteristic. Sure, check your delivery – self-awareness will help you to refrain from getting upset when someone takes issue with it.

      Finally, remember…the projects are not yours; they’re your employers. If your employer wants to tolerate dead weight, that’s their problem. You don’t have to kill yourself trying to make up for other people’s lacks.

      And I wouldn’t quit…but I would ramp up my search efforts. But that’s because I’m a chicken who’s addicted to a regular paycheck.

      2. Lindsay J*

        The director tried to fire me at a previous job because, at the end of a yearly training they asked for anonymous feedback on the training.

        And I was honest about the training, and how I thought it was essentially a huge waste of time, and how the presenter had seemed unprepared which made it even more of a waste. (I did word it more nicely than that, and the question I was responding to was something like, “how useful did you find the training?”.)

        I said nothing rude, crude, or untrue.

        The feedback went right to corporate. Corporate asked the HR director about it. HR went to my director, and told him to find and fire the person who made the feedback. My director asked my boss who it was, and told her to figure it out by comparing handwriting.

        She, thankfully, refused, and told the director that he could fire the entire department including her if he wanted, or he could drop the witch hunt, but that she was not going to be a part of this. He dropped it.

        They changed their feedback method the next year from open ended to “circle a number 1-5”.

        Don’t ask for opinions if you don’t actually want opinions.

    14. Jady*

      I’ve worked at places like this. This is more common than you may think. I know you’re looking for a new job, but this kind of situation could occur again.

      In the end, the worker bees are not in charge. Sometimes decisions come from the heavens and that’s the end of the story. Until you either get a large enough group to support, or you climb up the ladder far enough, or until upper management is replaced, eventually you really do have to give up.

      Not just for your own sanity, but in some companies for the safety of your job too.

      You said yourself: “Management does nothing, and no matter how much a concern or complaint is voiced, nothing changes.”

      So you already knew there was no point. You raised the issue again, after repeatedly raising the issue before. I understand the desire to do that – I did it too. But eventually, you have to accept that things aren’t going to change.

      Otherwise – you’re the squeaky wheel that gets the grease. That grease started happening.

      You talk about comparing yourself to the men. But are you on the same management level as these men? Do they longevity or position that gives them the authority to do the kinds of things you can’t do?

      If you’re on the same level of them, then the next question you have to ask is how does your presentation differ? Your description of the situation sounded extremely passive-aggressive. (Again – I understand! I did this too.) That isn’t going to be taken well, and it’s taken as a problem of both the issue and of yourself. Applauded people have solutions.

      In the future, in a situation like this, and in an appropriate place and time (a reorg announcement isn’t a good time), you’d want to do things like suggest performance metrics, yearly/quarterly review improvements, promotion criteria, implementing PIPs, and so on.

      But you have to take into account your standing. And you have to realize that the company has shown a lack of interest in that specific problem repeatedly. So your suggestions may still fall on deaf ears. You have to be okay with that, and remember it’s a problem from the top which can’t be solved from the bottom.

      I know that all sounds depressing and negative. On the bright side, there are companies that do care. They’re just harder to find.

      1. Observer*

        Wow. It really sounds like you’ve been well and truly indoctrinated.

        Here is the thing. It’s possible that Going’s questions were not politically smart. But that doesn’t come close to an acceptable explanation of what happened.

        Had they stuck to “abrasive” and the like it MIGHT have been possible that what was going on was not sexism, but “plain” over-all toxicity. But, when they are claiming that it caused people to be afraid of her, I call baloney! It doesn’t matter how out of line she could have been and how poorly times the questions were, etc. It simply is totally not credible that she actually intimidated the guys sitting there. So, let’s not sidetrack the discussion, please.

        1. Windchime*

          Yeah, I got the whole “people are afraid of you”, too. A male manager would get red in the face, yell (literally YELLING at the top of his voice) at people in our huddle, but he didn’t get talked to about it. But boy, I sure heard about it when I sighed in frustration over something. It made me super scary, according to Toxic Workplace.

    15. Bea W*

      I could have written this post on several occasions. I’ve had that same talking to. I’m also a woman. What is even worse, is after being talked to I’ve had managers openly soliciting opinions and potentially difficult feedback in group meetings. It’s infuriating. If you don’t want opinions, don’t ask for them! Don’t even get me started on dealing with the performance issues of other people. I was in this exact same spot. It ultimately led me to quitting without anything lined up, because I just could not continue without serious damage to my mental and physical health. I could not get my work done or work on my own performance goals.

      When I’m feeling like you do – and I know this well – I have to refocus on the fact that I am searching and on the parts of my job I like and reminding myself I have one foot out the door. Even though I’m not saying anything at work I’m not pretending things are okay, because I am actively trying to do something about it, which is look for another job. Sometimes I would have to take a “mental health day” away from the office or bury myself in independent work without interacting with people, usually blasting angry music on my headset. It helps me channel all that frustration into something other than standing up and announcing it is F-this O’clock and walking out.

      1. rose6677*

        Thanks Bea.

        I’m in this situation right now and your description sounds like a good strategy to implement.

    16. Nita*

      I’m really sorry. My husband has gone through this a couple of times in his career, and it’s such a toxic thing to deal with. At one point he was an assistant manager. In order to deny him a promotion to manager his new boss started calling his direct reports in for one-on-one meetings, fishing for information (i.e., asking lots of leading questions) about how he was “abrasive,” made them “scared” of him, and “intimidated” them. That was fun. A few of them gave my husband a heads-up about the meetings, but there wasn’t much he could do because the new boss was a family friend of an even higher new boss, who was a family friend of the top boss. Obviously it wasn’t a male-female dynamic going on, but those exact words were used to undermine and send the message of “you’re not welcome here.”

      Good luck, I really hope you can get out and find a new job.

    17. AFPM*

      I am so sorry for doing this. The only advice I can give is that THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH YOU, and GOOD FOR YOU for doing what you did. And get the hell out of there. They are gaslighting you and it’s not okay.

      1. AFPM*

        Response to my own comment above – Sorry that should have said “I’m so sorry you’re going through this!” LOL.

    18. Observer*

      If you have the energy, call them on this nonsense. You’re ready to quit anyway, so it’s not like they can fire you for it. (And if they do, then you get unemployment.)

      Point out that if any grown man is REALLY “scared to work” with you because of your abrasiveness, then something it quite wrong with that person. Which means that either someone is lying, or these guys are a bunch of spoiled children in adult bodes – and either way, their complaints are just not credible.

      I mean, if you were 6′ 2″, ripped and wearing chains and studs when you got up and banged the table before asking your question, that would be one thing. But that’s just fantasyland. The reality is that even if your tone WERE abrasive, the idea that someone is now “scared of you” is so silly that it’s clear that this is not serious or appropriate feedback.

      1. going anon today*

        I suspect one of the people who complained is also a woman, but she’s one who is known to push her work off on others and never do anything. A known issue management always says they’re “dealing with”.

        For the men – it’s funny you write the second paragraph because one of the ones who complained is known to pound on desks when someone tells him something he doesn’t like or he’s frustrated. A female coworker complained about that being scary, but nothing happened.

    19. Argh!*

      Very sexist! Horrible! It’s very repressive, and counterproductive. If the engaged staff members are told to shut up, and the people who disappear for hours aren’t disciplined, there’s a very very big problem there. Are you able to talk to an ombudsperson or upper management?

      If it happens while you’re still stuck there, can you muster up the oomph to tell them that they’re being sexist and all the stuff you said to us? They may not respond well to it, but they already don’t respond well to you. The difference would be that you wouldn’t feel so helpless. I know because I’ve done it. People who are sexist and oblivious to their own faults are usually not teachable, but it’s worth trying in order not to feel like a victim.

      After you find another job (which I hope you will do soon!) I hope they offer you an exit interview.

    20. Leave it to Beaver*

      Hi Going Anon! I’m not sure if you’re up for another opinion/thought/comment/post – but if so… It does sound like your work environment is toxic and is happy to live in the delusion that as long as no one says anything overtly sexist/racist/bigoted/prejudiced than they can avoid the impression that said workplace is sexist/racist/bigoted/prejudiced. The truth is, your manager handled the feedback badly. First, conducting it in an open space was poor judgment. Secondly telling you to keep your opinions to yourself is poor management. And while your reaction wasn’t ideal (I have also ugly cried, so I feel your pain), it sounds to me that it was likely due to a) your already existing opinion that your work environment sucks and b) that you’re also not managed well.

      Regardless of whether your opinion was valid or not, your manager should have held this conversation in a private space, should have addressed the concerns you expressed and ALSO should have discussed with you how best to address such concerns in the future. If they don’t want you speaking up in meetings, they need to tell you what avenues are available to you. (And if there aren’t any – get out). People thinking your abrasive or aggressive is subjective. (And scary is only an adjective that should only be used in the workplace when it refers to someone who is physically or verbally threatening, which this was not).

      I say all these things, because I think they might help to provide the armor you need to get through this period of time until you can find someplace better. Creating a productive work environment isn’t a mandate for employees to gather around a table and sing kumbaya. It’s appreciating each other’s differences and understanding how we can all work together, utilizing each other’s strengths for the best outcome. Your managers are integral to setting that framework and they’re failing. Don’t look at this as a personal failing. Consider this a challenging situation that you are only the better for overcoming.

    21. A (former) Cad Monkey*

      As someone who has left a toxic job without a new one lined up, look at your finances first. Verify you have enough in the bank/savings/liquid funds to last at a minimum 1 year. Toxic work places plain suck. I had to stick it out for several years to secure my financial stability. All I can give you is make sure you have a vent/outlet for the frustration you feel from toxic job. Good luck in your job search.

    22. N Twello*

      If I were you, I would probably make a formal complaint about your boss and grand-boss’s talks with you. Best to make it to HR and someone very senior (the CEO if possible). The complaint needs to be emotionless and include what they said to you (with exact quotes, especially about the no-talking-in-meetings), a description of how you reacted, a statement that you can’t work if you’re not allowed to speak in meetings, and a description of some events that show the toxic work environment. (Provable examples are better than an overall analysis.) I would include the assertions that this treatment is in your opinion sexist and is harassment, and that the environment is toxic, as those are legally loaded terms. After writing the email, I would go over it and weed out any parts that are too complicated to grasp easily or that are open to other interpretations.

      This might result in the company offering you a package. It might result in things getting better at work. It might result in more trouble. The main thing for me would be that I stuck up for myself after being treated with gross unfairness.

    23. Anonymatic YoYo*

      I cannot believe that the first comment this week is so similar to my current situation (which I was coming to post!). I pretty much figured my manager was an incompetent sexist a-hole, but this discussion about “scary” is very interesting, because I have recently been getting comments/actions on “him being scared to ask me a question” for finally getting fed up enough after 7 months of his crap to call him out, clearly and calmly, on his sh*t.

      Very conveniently I have also noticed he has only ever had foreign women working for him, from countries that typically lean towards more male dominance (I am also an expat, but not from one of those countries). Thankfully this is only for a few more weeks as I am on loan from another department, but it has been brutal – we are down three or four dishes and I have had heaving, screaming angry crying sessions at home out of frustration and lack of fairness, my long term relationship almost broke up, and I haven’t had a day off since October. And for what? So this tiny man can feel “powerful” in some way? I’m done giving him that power – he’s just as much a screwup as the people you are dealing with.

      He denied my request for vacation today too, which was pretty cool, in a place where vacation is almost never denied, the first vacation I have requested since this started. So he no longer gets more than what I am contractually obligated to provide. The project process I was going to write up for the next person? Yeah, naaaahh. Or cleaning up the files? Eh. He doesn’t get any more of my time/energy/sanity – he doesn’t deserve it, he hasn’t earned it, and I have no respect for him OR his boss at this point.

    25. working abroad*

      I know there’s tons of responses to your question already but I just want to offer some solidarity as a fellow crier. I consider myself such a strong person who can tolerate a lot of BS, but as soon as any direct confrontation comes my way the waterworks start. Most of the time it is out of frustration. I’ve actually considered therapy or hypnosis to train myself to stop. Sometimes it is just little things–like yesterday I was talking to my boss about using a company car and he was explaining why he didn’t want me to and I felt my eyes welling up. It sucks, and I empathize.

      1. Annoyed*

        Some people are criers. I read somehing a few years ago (couldn’t even begin to remember where) that laid out some pretty solid science behind it. Usually it’s frustration or stress.

        Unfortunately it’s also heavily skewed to being more common with women ergo the pervasive, and wrong belief that women are weak, emotional, over sensitive, and (gah!) hysterical.

        I’m a crier but I double dog dare anyone to define me as “weak.” It’s like a stress hornone thing or something. I really can’t remember *details* but after reading it I pretty much immediately stopped feeling bad for not being able to *not* cry.

    26. mreasy*

      I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. It is so incredibly demoralizing.

      Last year, I left a workplace where I was in a senior exec role, incredibly successful in measurable ways, and had been told that my “attitude” was an issue, that I was too “harsh” and that, in fact, people “were afraid” of me due to having to overhear intense phone calls. (I was having these phone calls primarily with someone so toxic and abrasive that nobody else at my company would talk to him, but I was able to negotiate with this person.)

      People I worked with on a regular basis, who had been at the company for a decade, who were MALE and below me in rank, would say things to me like “that’s a f**king stupid idea” about a well-thought-out plan my team had created, and much, much worse. One senior male member of staff was known as a source of unnecessary, emotionally charged conflict, and would occasionally come to work so hungover that he fell asleep on conference calls. These people did not face anything beyond the mildest talking-to about their issues.

      I was hired as a change agent, and instructed to shake things up and hold people accountable (which was sorely needed), but the moment I started doing this (kindly! I am such a kind person! I was known as the friendliest and easiest to work with person in my role at the company!), my bosses started complaining that people found me “intolerable” to work with. I didn’t get a raise in my 4 years there, and was told specifically that it was about my “attitude issues.” Yet somehow they were surprised when I left?

      tl;dr: if you can stick it out until you have another offer, do. Maybe try a search for a month and if you’re not getting anywhere, consider quitting without anything lined up. However, you will be surprised to find how much other employers appreciate a can-do attitude and lack of wishy-washiness. My current employer loves it!

    1. fposte*

      I’ve been watching that one! It’s so bizarre. It made me think of Richard Berendzen, the American University president who was making obscene phone calls (and lost his job as a result). (And wow, does his Wikipedia page read like he wrote it.)

      1. Baby Fishmouth*

        I just looked up that wiki page – I’m now like 80% convinced he wrote it himself.

      2. The Vulture*

        Holy crap (NPI) it does! You piqued my interest and it’s not JUST the overblown praise about “drastically raised the prestige through relentless work” and carefully mentioning but not centering the “resigning in disgrace” aspects, it’s also all very personal and casual references to how he felt or what he wanted or specific questions he asked in second grade. It’s just not “wikipedia style guide esque”, if I may.

        Also, let’s not forget Bob’s Burger’s the Mad Pooper.

        1. Qmatilda*

          Hello there fellow Eagle. I went there in the 90s and even had astronomy taught by Dr. B. There’s a copy of his book somewhere in the house as well.

    4. There's Always Money in the Banana Stand*

      This might be slightly off topic, but when my husband was in college, he worked at a clothing store at our local outlet mall. One day, his manager called a staff meeting because a sock had been found in the trash can that had human feces in it. A few days after that, another poop filled sock had been found in the back room. There ended up being a big who-dunnit ordeal, and it was eventually discovered that one of the temporary holiday employees had been doing it. My husband found it less than amusing–as he was the one working with a person who pooped in socks and left them laying about–but it gave me a good laugh.

    5. LKW*

      Someone sent this to me yesterday because this is where we grew up. Oh New Jersey…

    6. essEss*

      Hahahahahahahaha….. “”He was a nice guy,” said one neighbor. “Except for pooping on the field.””

  3. Jesse Pink*

    Cover letter questions, thanks in advance – How many job experiences to discuss when the average length is one year, and how many is too many? Is it a must to include my current job, which has no relevance whatsoever to the jobs I’m applying for in a different field? And like the resume, does the cover letter need to be in reverse chronological order, or should the more relevant (but from 6 years ago) stuff go first? I currently discuss 4 different jobs in my cover letter.

      2. Jesse Pink*

        Thanks! I went through it, but couldn’t seem to find these specific issues answered. In the example cover letters Alison posted, the writers include 1-2 jobs, so I worry that I have too many!

    2. Snubble*

      I use the cover letter to discuss how my skills meet the criteria set out in the job description / person specification and why I’m interested in the job on offer. The resume is for my job history, the cover letter is for the personality and emphasis on specific aspects such as “I am experienced with minuting high-level meetings led by execs” or “As shown by my ability to manage three seperate strands of work in my current role, I am comfortable with multi-taskign and organising my own time”. It’s not the narrative version of the resume and doesn’t have to go through each job in turn. It’s about pulling out details and ticking off the requirements in the advert.

      1. many bells down*

        Yeah when my cover letters mention previous jobs, it’s only in the sense of “I did A for 5 years, and here’s how I feel that’s prepared me to do X at your company.”

    3. ZSD*

      I think you may not be optimally organizing your cover letter. Your cover letter, in my opinion, shouldn’t discuss each job in turn. Instead, your cover letter should be organized around skills you’ll use in the new job. So you might have one paragraph about event planning, another paragraph about budget and audit responsibilities, and a final paragraph about social media. (I’m just making up a hypothetical job description, obviously.) In each paragraph, you demonstrate how you have experience in that area. Thus, whether you describe one job or four depends on where you got the experience relevant to this new position. And no, you definitely don’t need to go in reverse chronological order!

      1. TheAssistant*

        Agree with this. I usually pick out two (sometimes three) main tasks/traits of the job and throw in examples from other jobs as they’re relevant. Think of the cover letter as thematic vs chronological – you’re weaving together a story of why you’d excel in the role, outside of the rather-dry accomplishment bullets of your resume.

        For instance, if the job has a lot of responsibilities that scream Attention to Detail, I’ll talk about my eagle eyes and how I was the go-to copyeditor in a department of 25. That was my first job (of four on my resume), but usually I’ll talk about it in the first substantive paragraph if it makes sense to do so. I might pair that instance with a task in my current or last role. Then the next bit will be about Embracing a Challenge, and we’ll throw in an example for job #2. Etc.

        1. Chaordic One*

          The other thing that I do is I try to mention the main tasks listed in the job description or advertisement to which I am responding and then, like you suggest, tell mow my previous experience would help me accomplish these tasks.

    4. Not a Real Giraffe*

      Your cover letter doesn’t need to be a catch-all for every experience you’ve ever had. Look at the job description and pick out the top 2-3 things they are looking for in their candidate and highlight how you and your experience are a good fit for what they’re looking for. Hiring managers don’t need an exhaustive history of your work experience in the cover letter – they just want a taste of why you’re applying and why they should interview you. Keep it short – I appreciate reading cover letters that are 2/3 or 3/4 of a page and no longer than that.

    5. Moonbeam Malone*

      Think of your cover letter as your elevator pitch – you’re trying to quickly hook a prospective employer. It’s a way to be more conversational and relay relevant info that might not be on your resume, or to go into more detail on something relevant on your resume that particularly speaks to the value you can bring to the table. Keep it relevant, keep it brief, and if possible make it interesting. Highlight your experience and skills here and only mention specific jobs as they relate to whatever skill you’re drawing attention to.

      My cover letter is usually something like, “Dear So-And-So, I was so excited to see the opening for a (Job Title) at (Company Name.) I’ve been freelancing in (field) for x years and I’m ready to make the transition to full time. The work you’ve been doing lately on (specific project I am interested in) has been very inspiring to me. I strive to bring that same kind of energy into my projects. Through the work I’ve done on (relevant projects) I’ve been honing (specific relevant/desirable skills) and you’ll see from my portfolio that I’ve demonstrated a strong focus in (thing I’m super awesome at.) I look forward to discussing this position with you. You can contact me at (contact info.) Thank you, Moonbeam Malone”

      (I don’t have my actual cover letter at the ready, and mine are never even the best, I realize, but hopefully that gives you some idea.)

    6. Kat Em*

      I have two sections on mine. One is [Industry] Experience, which comes first. The second is Other Work Experience, which includes recent but less-pertinent jobs, and includes less detail. Hope that helps!

      1. Kat Em*

        I should specify that this is my resume. I don’t really reference non-pertinent work in cover letters at all, except in passing like “While I’ve enjoyed my time as a llama wrangler, I’m ready to get back to my first love: teapot construction.” or something like that.

        1. Jesse Pink*

          This is good. Thanks! I was wondering how to reference the current job without spending space on it because it is not relevant.

    7. Lindsay J*

      I don’t go through my jobs one by one in a cover letter, and it’s definitely not in chronological or reverse chronological order. I mostly just relate how specific aspects of my experience relate to specific parts of the job posting (especially parts that might not be immediately obvious on my resume, or that might be missed in a quick glance of it).

      There was a sample cover letter Allison posted several years ago now (that I think was for an office manager position or something?) and mine is similar to that in structure and tone.

    8. N Twello*

      You could think of the cover letter as a way to make the reader want to look at your resume. The cover letter doesn’t need to include any details of where or when. It doesn’t need to reference your current job at all. For example, you could say “I have over ten years experience designing tea pots” and then your resume will show five non-consecutive jobs of two years each where you designed tea pots. Don’t repeat your resume in your cover letter. Keep it focused and fairly brief.

    9. nep*

      Best to pick two or three items in the skills and experience the employer requires and highlight what you’ve done along those lines. The cover letter shouldn’t be a rehash of the resume — really use it as an opportunity to spotlight your strongest points and how they relate to the job in question; make the hiring manager want to read on and want to contact you for more.

  4. Cancer Crush Anon*

    Well, I have hopeful news today. It looks like on Monday, 100 days after the CEO Crush incident, I will be able to consider putting my two weeks in! For those who haven’t been following this saga: the CEO told me he had a crush on me, I reported it, he called me like 7 times and claimed I misunderstood. On the same day of the incident I found out my dad’s cancer had returned. Luckily, he’s 100% fine.

    I got a call on Wednesday saying that a big corporate headquarters wants to hire me. I got the verbal offer yesterday (I did not dare negotiate…it was a 33% raise and 21 days of PTO vs 12). HR recommended I wait for the background check to clear, which could take a week.

    I literally have no reason to worry on my background check, so I am leaning towards putting my 2 weeks in on Monday and then having a week off to myself to recharge/MOVE/get my house ready to rent it out before the start date after Memorial Day. It’s probably unadviseable to do before the background check comes in, but honestly…I need this so badly. Boyfriend has already started his new job in New City, and I will be joining him soon with MY new job in New City. It’s a reset. A new start.

    I had a pretty awful performance review two weeks ago, and my boss (who had been supportive) really dismissed me when I told her that it has been very HARD to work there every day. She told me she “factored everything in”, yet I received the worst review I have ever received from her. Tie that with a reduced bonus and a reduced raise (we have a target they are supposed to meet). It was extremely demoralizing and frankly, I cannot wait to see her face when I put my 2 weeks in.

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I am so happy to hear that there is finally light at the end of the tunnel for you.

    2. ContentWrangler*

      Woohoo! You deserve this positive outcome. Move on to a great new job and a fun new life in a new city and leave behind this dysfunctional company and creeptastic CEO.

    3. Frustrated Optimist*

      I am so happy to hear of your new opportunity – to say you deserve it is an understatement.

      But you’ll wait until you get an offer in writing before you turn in your notice, right?

      1. Cancer Crush Anon*

        Yes, definitely. Waiting on pins and needles right now! Just send the darn email HR!!

      2. AdAgencyChick*

        Yes, WAIT WAIT WAIT! Every extra minute right now feels like an eternity, but once you’re out of there it won’t take long before it all seems like a bad dream. Better to have everything 100% locked down in writing first!

    7. Viktoria*

      I’m so sorry that all happened! How awful. I didn’t see your original post.

      In your shoes, instead of giving notice before the background check clears, I might consider waiting and then giving only 1 week’s notice. I know some people might not agree with me– but being sexually harassed by the CEO seems like extraordinary circumstances to me. Combined with the possibility of retaliation/being asked to leave immediately (do you think your bad review has a retaliatory aspect? Maybe not if your boss has been supportive, but the timing seems… fishy). Just throwing that out as another option to consider!

      Either way, congrats, and enjoy giving notice and enjoy your new start!!

      1. CatCat*

        Yeah… I’d just give notice the same day I got to clear on the background check. If it’s less than 2 weeks? Well, that’s what happens when the CEO is allowed to harass an employee and stick around, and then the employee sees their performance review trashed. Natural consequence for the company.

        Honestly, I’d be tempted to leave the very day I got the cleared background check. Start wrapping up what you can now, write a memo on where things stand, and if you want, be prepared to walk out that day having done the best you could . The 2 weeks notice is not more important than your health and well-being. You’ve been through the ringer.

        Others may disagree. But would you ever trust your boss to give a positive reference anyway in light of what’s gone down here? I would not.

        1. Cancer Crush Anon*

          I’ve thought about all of this and I’ve been going back and forth with all of these thoughts. I’m concerned that giving less than 2 weeks would be unprofessional, and that people who see me as professional and DON’T know the situation would judge me negatively for it. I do have a lot of people here I’d like to keep in contact with and I don’t want them to think I am unprofessional.

          I also think it’s strange that my bonus/performance suffered after making a harassment complaint. I’m not under any NDA right now, but that may change, according to people in my life giving me advice. So therefore, I will not elaborate further on this aspect. If I do follow advice, I may be asked to leave immediately, anyways.

          With the substantial raise and my unused vacation being paid out, I don’t think I have to worry about the week or two I have without pay.

          1. Fiennes*

            Document EVERYTHING. And frankly, in the exit interview, say exactly what you said here about being penalized after a sexual harassment claim.

            1. mark132*

              That’s probably better said to a lawyer, rather than HR. Should she consider a lawsuit for retaliation etc.

          2. Windchime*

            It’s not strange at all that your bonus/performance review suffered after making a harassment claim. It looks like a clear case of retaliation to me.

            Best of luck and congratulations on your awesome new job. I’ve been reading your updates with interest and I’m so glad you’re finally getting out. (Glad your dad is OK, too!)

          3. Lucky*

            Can you wait for the official offer and ask to start in 3 weeks? That way you give the very professional 2 weeks notice but still have a week to relax, move, regroup, etc.

            PS I am so happy for this update and can’t wait to hear the official news next week.

            1. WellRed*

              Yes, no rule that you must start in exactly two weeks, especially since it sounds like the new company sought you out! And frankly, I think the bad review is retaliation.

            2. Cancer Crush Anon*

              Well what’s strange is HR already asked me for my start date. She asked if I needed to give 2 weeks, and I said yes, and she said May 21st. I then asked if we could do May 29th due to life and she said that was fine.

              But then she said that I should wait for the background check to clear and it may take a week….thus making it confusing because clearly I’d be giving less than 2 weeks if that were the case with the original date she thought!

    9. thelettermegan*

      Background checks clear pretty quickly. Just hang tight and slowly clean your desk.

      1. Cancer Crush Anon*

        HR told me it takes about a week and they go all the way back to High School :/ Maybe that’s why it would take longer?

        1. Jadelyn*

          It depends on what all they’re checking. It also depends on how many places you’ve lived, because that increases the number of county records agencies that the bg check has to get responses from before they can call it a day, and how unique your name is – if they have to sift through dozens of Jane Smiths to make sure they’re looking at the records for the right one, it can take longer.

          I’ve had bg checks come back approved the same day, and I’ve had them take 3+ weeks in extreme cases (rarely, but it happens) – I usually tell candidates to expect it to take about a week since that seems to be where the average lies.

        2. Autumnheart*

          When I was hired by a large bank, I had to have an extensive background check. I’m super square and it took about a week, and apparently that was really fast. But that was in 2003 and things are much more electronicized now. Probably be faster.

    11. The Ginger Ginger*

      Oh, I’m so relieved for you! I’ve thought of you the last couple open threads, and I’m beyond thrilled that you’ve not only found a way out but have improved your pay and PTO. Congratulations!

    15. King Friday XIII*

      So happy to see a hopeful update from you! When it’s hard, remember we’re all rooting for you.

    16. Jadelyn*

      I’d discourage you from resigning before the bg check clears tbh – we do background checks at my employer and at least once we’ve had someone who resigned before their bg check cleared despite being advised not to do so, and whose background check then came back and we couldn’t hire them. So this person was obviously confident that their background check would clear…but they were wrong.

      Since you don’t know which specific aspects of the background check they’re looking at – it may vary depending on the industry the company works in, the nature of the position you’re being hired for – it’s hard to say for sure you’ll pass the bg check unless you have literally never had any credit problems, financial difficulties, repos/foreclosures, in addition to having a perfectly clean criminal history.

      1. Guacamole Bob*

        I’d advise the same, but for a different reason. I recently made an internal transfer that required an updated background check, and it took for-friggin’-ever. I think it was several weeks, in the end, and I have no idea why – I have no problematic history and nothing had changed since my background check when I started at this organization. But they contracted with an outside firm for checks and somehow it took a while to come back. If you can afford to be out of work for several weeks if the background check process ends up taking longer than expected, that’s one thing, but if you don’t actually want more than a week off I’d wait.

        My large employer also only has new employees start every other Monday because they have everyone new to the company go through orientation first, sign up for benefits in a group session, etc. So if your new employer does something similar and you hit the wrong point in that cycle it could add another week or two.

        Wait until you have a start date if at all possible. And congrats!

        1. Cancer Crush Anon*

          I do have a start date…which is 3 weeks from this Monday. SO I am a little surprised that she wanted to put a start date down but told me to wait a week. Originally she asked me if I could start on the 21st!

          1. Windchime*

            That kind of makes sense to me. My workplace only does New Employee Orientation every couple of weeks, and people have to start on a NEO day. So they probably just signed you up for the next orientation day.

        2. Logan*

          I am making an internal transfer, to a job which was posted to the public, so most aspects (pay, leave, etc) are internal, except for my background check. They are unusually backlogged, and it looks like I might start in June, when I was originally talking to them about mid-March. I don’t really care because bosses on both sides are understanding and supportive, but the fact that there is no obvious end in sight is a bit of a surprise to all of us!

      2. Lindsay J*

        This.

        I think my job is too obsessive with background checks, honestly. I’ve had a 3 people who were currently working for a different company in my field, doing the same thing they would be doing for me, fail their background checks.

        But it’s not something I have standing to do anything about.

        So I just make it very clear to people when I interview them, that if they are selected that there will be a background check, that it will take about a month (both of those are standard in my field), AND that I have had several people fail the background check, and that even if they think that they know that they will be fine, just don’t give notice until they get word that it has cleared.

        Additionally, another reason to wait is that you don’t know whether they will give you a start date immediately after your background check clears.

        I have a new person starting soon. His background check cleared Wednesday. However, I know he needs to give two weeks notice at his current job. However, I will be out of town on business most of the month, and I can’t really start him when I’m out of town because I need to train him. So he has a start date of the 26th. If he gave notice two weeks ago to time his start with when his background check was estimated to clear, he would have 3 weeks without a paycheck that he may not have been planning for.

      3. Oxford Coma*

        Does identity theft count as a background check problem, if it has since been handled? Just curious, as a member of the IRS hack.

        1. mark132*

          I somewhat dread any credit checks etc. I have an extremely common name, and I’ve gotten false positives.

        2. Jadelyn*

          I honestly don’t know for sure – I’m not that deeply involved in our process to know precisely what disqualifies someone. I enter background checks and coordinate with the various people involved, but the actual determination on what leads to a “No, we can’t hire them” decision gets made at a higher level than I get to see.

          I can tell you that my org makes a real effort to work with candidates – if there’s something concerning on the background check, but not automatically disqualifying, we will reach out to the candidate and ask for further explanation and potentially documentation. So for my company, I think identity theft would be a yellow flag – we’d call you, ask what happened, ask for documentation regarding the identity theft and how it was handled, and then assuming it can be verified that it and any credit problems it caused has been handled, is in the past now, and was not your fault, then we would probably go ahead and move forward on hiring you.

          My best suggestion would be, if you’re applying for a job and they tell you they need to do a background check, be upfront about it. Tell them you were part of this data breach which resulted in your identity being stolen, you’ve handled it since then but it may show up on your background check. That way it doesn’t come out looking like something you were trying to hide, and they can tell you right away if that’s going to be a deal-breaker for them rather than having to run the check and get the results before determining that.

    19. Nita*

      So happy for you. Both that your dad is fine, and about the new job. Still thinking of you and hoping the transition goes very smoothly!!!

    20. A Person*

      Congrats! I put in my notice before my background check came back (after a written offer), but I just had the same background check done a year ago for toxic job and haven’t lived a life of crime in the past year. I am also intentionally taking a short break between jobs this time to recover mentally.

      Do what you need to do for yourself and I hope everything goes smoothly!

    21. Double A*

      This is very hopeful! I agree with the comments to wait til the background check clears, but also with the comment not to bother with 2 weeks. 2 weeks is a courtesy. Does this company deserve your courtesy?

    22. Corky's wife Bonnie*

      I’m very happy for you. Hope everything goes well with your move and new job, good luck!

    23. gbca*

      Congratulations! Tempting as it may be to resign before the background check clears, I would wait just to be safe. Then I would either give less than two weeks as someone else suggested, and/or negotiate with the new company for an additional week or two to move. Most companies understand that people need more than two weeks to start a new job when there’s a move involved, as giving two weeks’ notice is standard and moving cities in a weekend is generally unrealistic.

    24. Wendy Darling*

      A warning re: background checks — I almost didn’t pass mine even though there are legitimately no issues because… a past employer refused to pick up their phone, so they couldn’t verify one of my previous jobs. I had to dig up W2s to prove I’d worked there.

      If you can’t afford to not have a job you really should totally wait. If you can afford it… well, put in notice with great prejudice and then turn on really loud victory music.

    25. Bea*

      THIS MAKES ME SO HAPPY! You have suffered and struggled so much and now you’ll be able to get out of that toxic tank of misconduct and despair. You deserve happiness and being treated well.

      Background checks rarely take the week we quote. That’s to factor in time to plug in the request and hiccups, also if you get a strange pop, we can have time to check another database, etc.

      But do give 2 weeks. When I left Hell On Earth, I struggled and was thinking about walking out. I didn’t need a damn thing from them and know never to list Voldemort as a reference. But it feels better to struggle through a notice. I’m praying for them to escort you out immediately though, I stayed 80% of my notice before they said I wasn’t needed any longer. I danced out the door.

      They may not be truly maliciously retaliating with the raise and review but they took the mental bait and I’m hoping you look into your options to take these fools down if it’s possible. But if you want a clean break, please know that’s a good choice too.

    26. Hmmm*

      Hey, is there any reason you couldn’t ask to start in 3 weeks instead of two? That’s really normal! You could give some reason, but otherwise just say, “Would it be possible to have the start date be a week later?”

      1. Cancer Crush Anon*

        I did! She initially wanted me to start May 21st. Now it’s May 29th…

        1. Halmsh*

          If the background check takes more than the time you’re anticipating, then just say you have to push the start date. You can be firm and friendly and say ‘I need to give two weeks notice to wrap things up at my current position, and I need a week to move before starting, I’m sure you understand!’ It’s really really okay and normal to have to push a little on a start date. HR folks expect some of this, will push back a little, and you just have to stay firm.

        2. Product person*

          You should say, “I’d like to start 3 weeks after my background check clears”. This is good advice for anyone, not to offer a firm date, but rather date offer is confirmed + X weeks so you have time to give notice and take soe time off.

          My husband has a spotless background and his last background check ended up taking 2 weeks, nobody knows why.

    27. Quinoa*

      Congratulations! I’ve been following your story and am so happy to hear that things are finally looking up for you! All the best in your new job and city!

  5. WellRed*

    I work in media as an editor and someone gave me a job listing for a non MLS library assistant position, in the city I live in, which is something I’ve never considered. I have the non-library requirements but don’t know, for example, the library software system. Also, even if there’s a chance in hell I got the interview, let alone the job, I’d probably be stuck at that level forever because I can’t see myself going for the degree to move up. On the other, might be nice to be a cog in the wheel?

    1. Anonymous for this*

      No library experience here, but if you’ve learned CCI/Newsgate, you can probably handle any software they throw at you. ;)

    3. Thing1*

      My MIL works in a public library in a small city. She does not have an MLS, which has prevented her from getting some opportunities. But she has still had some advancement; she was promoted to head of circulation a year or two ago, despite not having the degree, because of her experience and how good she is at it. But she was working there for something like 10 years, at a relatively low wage, before that happened, so it definitely wasn’t rapid promotion or anything.

    4. Decima Dewey*

      I wouldn’t worry about the library software system. There should be training. In the time I’ve been with my library system, we’ve had three very different software systems.

      The other thing to remember is that library software systems stink. The only questions are how it will, how much, and how much it will cost to stink.

      1. SarahTheEntwife*

        Ditto. There are several common systems, and while it’s awesome if someone has previous experience it’s generally not at all required unless you’re being hired for a higher-level technical position (and even then it’s probably not going to be a make-or-break thing).

      2. An Anon Librarian*

        I agree. Every library I have been at has had a different backend system. None have been that hard to learn.

    5. HR Recruiter*

      I used to do HR for a library. Not knowing the system is not a concern at all. My biggest concern in interviewing you would be why do you want to go to libraries and how long are you willing to stay.
      And some things for your to consider are library jobs are hard to get (at least in my area). Your are competing with ppl with lots of library experience and MLS degrees because there are so few librarian jobs. Not to deter you though. I hired more ppl without experience over those with experience because they had the motivation and drive the others didn’t. Also think about your financial needs. Libraries pay very little and there’s some but few advancement opportunities without a MLS degree.

      1. WellRed*

        All of this is exactly what i worry about. It’s a public library with 6 or 7 smaller branches. It supposedly pays about $22 per hour (this could be off by a few dollars). It’s certainly gotta offer better health insurance than what I’ve got.
        I need a change, my company is making some decisions that make me worry for the long term health of it, and I am good at customer service and books.

        1. Rather be Reading*

          The customer service part is key. Play that up as best you can in your application documents and in the interview. I’ve hired plenty of people from non-library backgrounds who had other relevent experience and were excited about the ide of using those skills to help library customers. You’ve got as good a shot as anybody, so I say go for it.

        2. Ellery*

          If you haven’t already, familiarize yourself with the library website and what kinds of services your library offers. It’s nice to be good with books, but libraries are largely multimedia these days and you might find you have an affinity for something that could put you in an appealing light.

        3. Library Land*

          For starters, it’s good to know that most libraries do have levels of library assistants (LA’s). You will reach a point where you cannot move up without the MLIS but it may take you awhile. $22 for a non-MLIS position is pretty good, especially for public. But HR Recruiter above is spot on, these jobs are a tough nut with lots of applicants. Not impossible – just know that there’s a lot of competition.

          Talk up your customer service. I wouldn’t say too much about being good with books (whatever that means to you) unless it’s a Reader’s Advisory heavy position. I semi-doubt that will be the case as that’s often a part of the MLIS jobs in the larger libraries.

          Also, not all LA positions are the same. Circulation is incredibly heavy on the customer service. Programming/RA/collections will be some customer service but a lot of teaching/leading. Anything within tech or tech services will not need customer service but has to have those specific skills. And like all have said, the library software isn’t really needed (unless you’ll be working on fixing that software, etc.).

    6. Library Director*

      Definitely apply. As long as you have the other requirements, like customer service and technology experience, learning the ILS (library software) is fine. Libraries have different ILSs anyway, so even if you were coming from the field, I’d expect that I’d need to teach you.

    7. LibraryRaptor*

      1) Lots of libraries use different software, you’d be learning like any new person. No worries there!
      2) It really depends on the library. I’ve worked in public and academic. Some counties (for public libraries) have strict requirements that you have an MLS. Some, especially smaller or more rural ones, do not. My last position in a public library required an MLS, or an MLS in progress, or “equivalent experience.” When I left that job I strongly recommended one of my staff who had years of experience but no MLS to take on the role. She got it! So that’s a long way to say, it depends.

      1. Bibliovore*

        Apply!
        I went from publishing to librarianship. I did not have a degree but had a retail and literature background. Good luck!

    8. Argh!*

      If a specific software program is a job requirement in the position description, then they may hold it against you. If it’s just a preferred qualification, it will only hold you back if someone with that exact credential who is equal to you in every other way is in the pool.

      It’s not unusual for people to work at one job for fewer than five years, so don’t think in terms of a lifetime commitment. After a few years, if you get bored, you will have some new skills to broaden your job prospects and hopefully some happy memories. A hiring official won’t ding you for leaving a dead-end job that no longer gives you opportunities to learn.

      If you want to do the work, go for it! Your reservations are not really big issues, and since you currently have a job, what have you got to lose?

    9. Denise*

      Plus, if you like the field and they offer educational assistance, who says you won’t get the MLS someday? It’s not the most painful degree program ever by any means.

    10. JS*

      I work at an academic library and I do not have a MLS. I do marketing / communications / media development work, which definitely doesn’t require a library degree. If you’re applying for a position at an academic library, there are some folks who’ll be hierarchical and a bit snobby about what you can do and what you can’t, but there’s plenty you can do (especially as an editor) to support library services. Depending on the exact position, I think you would want to do is frame your experience as “I know how to approach things from a patron perspective” because librarians sometimes have trouble seeing outside their own knowledge (like most experts!). An outsider perspective is really valuable in that situation to help cut through the library-ese. Good luck!

    11. OldLibrarian*

      I’ve been in libraries a long time and have never seen a non-librarian position that required the master’s degree. It might actually be an impediment to getting a non-librarian position in that they would assume you might want to leave the minute you had a chance at a librarian job. On the other hand, if you would like to “move up” eventually, you’ll want to ask about those kinds of opportunities. Public libraries tend to be small and flat organizationally… that is there might be dozens of circulation workers but only one circ manager (maybe an assistant manager) and you’ll never get that job unless someone leaves or dies. (I should add: in my experience, and I’ve never worked at a big county or major city system.)

  6. Snark*

    Still waiting on that official offer. BLAAAARGH. The longer this goes on, the more likely it is I’ll have a gap between paychecks, and I’d really like to avoid that.

  7. Bad Candidate*

    Are there any reputable resume services out there? My husband’s job has taken a turn and he’s looking. Problem is, he’s in IT and I know nothing about it or how to help his resume. His school’s career center isn’t an option as we’re not local and they don’t do long distance help. Thanks :)

    2. Akcipitrokulo*

      Reading posts here is probably a lot better – and avoids risk of getting bad “make an impression!!!!” advice.

    3. SpaceNovice*

      I wouldn’t go to a school career center anyway unless you know they are high quality; some still do things the “old” way.

      He should have a section that somehow lays out his skills separate from his list of jobs. It really helps people see what you’re good at in a glance. Perhaps specify levels of expertise if necessary. Bullet points under jobs should include what he did, HOW he did it, and what the result was–it helps employers visualize what someone can do. Also, a brief job description under each heading, especially if there’s differences like short term vs long term projects/support/assignments.

    5. Thegs*

      I’m in IT, and the only big difference I’ve noticed in resumes is that current certifications should have a prominent place. I list mine right below my contact information. Aside from that, standard resume formatting applies.

    6. zora*

      I agree with the above, but also, does he have any other contacts in the industry that would be willing to look at his draft resume and give their thoughts? And/or other people from his school that he is still in contact with? I am always happy to help a friend with resumes/cover letters, so he shouldn’t be afraid to ask around!

    7. Happy IT customer*

      Not a resume service, but if you husband needs help with his resume in the US and is in IT, the people I’m linking from my signature helped me after I was referred by a friend, and I can’t recommend them enough.

      I needed help with my resume after moving from India to the US and the results were outstanding. While before I was getting zero responses, after making the changes suggested I started to get replies on the same day I applied to jobs, and quickly found the perfect job. Since then I have paid it forward referring them to a couple of friends (also in IT) who have reported the same great results.

      Worth trying to see if they could help your husband too, and good luck for him!

  8. Purple Cornflake*

    Anyone have recs for job banks related to urban planning and transportation policy, entry- and mid-level? Thanks!

    1. Purple Cornflake*

      Posted too soon! In addition to Planetizen, APA job bank, NACTO, and idealist.

    2. grace*

      Hmmmm IDK where you work, but DC public affairs + communications jobs may be a start, if you’re interested in the district — I’ve used some of the company names before to see what alternative positions they had open.

    3. Overeducated*

      PreserveNet (through Cornell) sometimes posts planner positions on their job board.

    4. 414*

      Brad Traverse–if you are looking in the DC area, posts a lot of public policy jobs, some of which might be what you’re looking for!

    5. Jess*

      Streetsblog has a job board, although it’s relatively sparse. I see things for the West coast there way more often than the East, though.

    6. Lalaroo*

      I’d recommend looking at your local DOT if you’re willing to do state or local government work. I know our DOT has a TON of urban planning and transportation jobs, in addition to the standard hardhat type jobs everyone thinks of at first.

    7. Sabine the Very Mean*

      This is my field. I use Governmentjobs.com as I choose to work in the public sector.

    8. Applesauced*

      Seconding the look at local/city/state municipalities; AIA (American Institute of Architects), Archinect might have planning jobs.
      If you’re on Reddit, r/UrbanPlanning might have some ideas

    9. Not my usual name*

      I’m in transportation policy/planning, and I’ve never found a reliable job bank in my field. I ended up making a spreadsheet of organizations that I was interested in with URLs for their career pages and checking in regularly, plus following those orgs on social media. A lot of government agencies won’t post their jobs anywhere except their own site, though sometimes individual hiring managers or other interested parties will post the job to relevant lists and boards. Local advocacy organizations often won’t bother posting local jobs on national boards, either. If you’re looking at consulting firms try to network your way into talking to someone there – some are kind of in an always-hiring mode if they find good candidates, even if they don’t have specific jobs posted.

      Check out the local Young Professionals in Transportation chapter, if your city has one. DC has a listserv called YIPPS that posts a lot of jobs – your area may have something similar. Several cities have Transportation Camps that are also good networking opportunities. I found it helpful to just start going to events that planning advocacy orgs in my city were having, and sometimes volunteering at those events. It gave me a sense of what different organizations were active in my area and let me ask people already in the field about local job-hunting, among other things.

    10. Mark Brendanaquits*

      Also, my state chapter of the APA posts a lot of transportation planning jobs both on their website and on their Facebook page. I also find that my state’s City/County Management Association website often posts planning jobs as well. Good luck!

    11. Purple Cornflake*

      Learned of several great new resources thanks to y’all. Thank you everyone!

  9. Pet sitter*

    Dog daycare carpool update: I have started working at the dog daycare part-time! It is adorable! AMA.

    1. Amelia*

      That’s so exciting! How many dogs do you get to see a day? Do you get time to play with them at all?

      1. Pet sitter*

        About a dozen. They have a LOT of playtime in the morning and they’re sleepy when I get there in the afternoon. :)

    2. fposte*

      I missed the intervening info–is this one of those that drives around and picks the dogs up?

      1. Pet sitter*

        Sadly, no, they don’t have a doggy school bus. I met the owner by giving one of the dogs a car ride to daycare every morning. Daycare opens at the same time as the local schools and has a little carpool circle. It’s like taking a kid to school. But now I work at the school too, and the kid is happy to see me and not going “ugh, mooom.”

    3. ContentWrangler*

      I have no questions. Only requests for pictures, though I don’t know if pics can be posted in this comment section.

    4. Snubble*

      Do you get to play with puppies? Are you getting paid to play with puppies? Can I shadow you at your job where you get to play with puppies?

      1. Pet sitter*

        1. Yes.
        2. Yes, but I spend more time cleaning than doing anything else. Scooping poop, filling in holes dogs dig in the ground (lol), cleaning the floors, cleaning the crates, etc.
        3. Yes.

    5. MechanicalPencil*

      What about the dogs that don’t play? I have one who came from a horrible situation and just never learned how…except when she sporadically decides that NOW IS THE TIME — in the middle of a rainstorm. She’s gone to daycare before as part of boarding, and I’ve always just wondered what she did.

      1. Pet sitter*

        When they go to the yard to play, some of them walk around sniffing things or quietly hang around together. They just want to relax. Sorry to hear that your dog has that background, though, and gets the crazies at weird times! At daycare, she probably fits right in with some mellow or reserved dogs.

        1. MechanicalPencil*

          Oh she’s definitely mellow. That makes me feel slightly better about leaving her. She’ll go months without a play bow and then all of the sudden it just pops up, so I feel like I have to encourage my dog to dog.

    6. Lindsay J*

      Do they supply a vehicle or do you have to drive them around in your own car?

      What happens if a doggo gets car-sick or something?

      1. Pet sitter*

        I only drive one dog in my car, who so far (fingers crossed) hasn’t gotten carsick.

        She’s a pretty good passenger. She chews my seat belt buckles sometimes, but whatever. She likes daycare and her face lights up when we pull into the driveway.

  10. Hopelessly Lost?*

    I’ve received some conflicting advice recently about what constitutes job hopping as a millennial in a professional field (particularly fields where internal promotions aren’t that common) and while I think I’m ready to move on, my resume might hold me back down the road. Any advice on whether moving now may hurt me? My job history is as such:

    1 year Company A – assistant
    2 years Company B (left to relocate for husband’s job) – analyst
    2 years Company C (current role) – senior analyst.

    I’d like to make a leap into a manager role (starts around 4-5 years of experience in my field) sometime after bonuses come out in August but I’ve been told that I’m getting into job hopper territory – especially since my husband and I are likely leaving this city when his professional training program ends mid-2021 so if I switch jobs, that one would only last ~2.5 years, too.

    Do I just need to suck it up and stay here with all of these factors working against me?

    1. ContentWrangler*

      Would the manager role be at a different company or a promotion within your current company? I think job hopping doesn’t apply if you’ve been at the same company but moved around to different positions. That would mean you would be at this company for 5ish years before moving. Doesn’t look job-hoppy to me.

      1. Hopelessly Lost?*

        Well that’s the problem… there’s no room for growth here at all. We were supposed to hire a new analyst junior to me last fall but instead moved a director from another department over to ours and made her a manager to avoid demoting her to entry level, even though she has no experience. There’s are only 4 people in the department, and 3 of them can’t be managers.

        There’s a chance I can also jump over to one of our subsidiaries. However, all of our subsidiaries are fairly well-known names on their own and in my experience, no one knows our parent company owns them, so that doesn’t really help me on the appearances front.

        1. DDJ*

          You’re advancing your career. You can clearly show that you left for growth opportunities. There are no growth opportunities at your current employer. At another company, if you move into management, the expectation would definitely be to stay in that role for a longer period of time, I think.

          Now, if you end up going to a subsidiary, you could possibly put both positions under the same company heading, or on your resume, you could indicate “Company D – Subsidiary of Company C.” I work at a company that used to have a LOT of subsidiaries, and moving between them wouldn’t really be considered job-hopping, just due to the nature of what we were doing. I think if you could explain that, you’d be fine.

          Moving into a wholly different company and then leaving AGAIN in 2.5 years is going to start to look job-hoppy. Some places won’t really care that much, others will. If you’re looking to get into management, you need to show that you’re not going to jump over to the next thing too fast. If you’re fairly certain that you’ve only got 2.5 years before you move onto the next thing, I’d say best-case scenario is a more senior role within the subsidiary. If there’s the possibility of SKILLS growth in your current role, even if you’re not going to get a new title, that could also be a benefit. It would show that you’re stable, that you’re willing to stick with something, that you can take on new tasks. If you could learn a few more things, get a few more tasks on your plate that would look nice on a resume, maybe that’s a decent Plan B.

        2. Happy Lurker*

          Eh, the subsidiary hop seems pretty good. Drop the well known name Ketchup for Heinz when you move to Mustard division. The subsidiary move can be explained in a cover letter if you wish to drop the well known names.
          I don’t think a couple years in each role is job hoppy, especially with relocation.

          Is it lunch time yet?

    2. Jules the Third*

      Forbes says millenials stay in jobs about 2.5 years, and that the average overall is 4.4. I think you’re fine, especially if you can demonstrate growth with each change. And as ContentWrangler says, changing roles within a company is very different than changing companies.

      1. Indigo a la mode*

        That seems…skewed. Millennials naturally have the least time in the workforce to draw from, which isn’t really fair against older professionals. I’m sure that when they’ve put 20, 30, 40 years into the workforce, they’ll have an average of 4.4 years at a job too.

    3. AnnaChronism*

      What industry are you in? That can make a big difference in optics and readers may be able to assist.
      You can also address it in your cover letter, since you left job A to relocate.

      1. Hopelessly Lost?*

        I don’t want to be too specific since I may have some coworkers who read AAM but it’s a corporate back office function.

        1. Buu*

          Seems like your circumstances changed when they moved the other senior member of staff to your dept, so you could have a reason to look. The main problem you’d face if you get the dreaded ” Where do you see yourself in five years?”…you’d then have to talk around it or lie.

          If you can move to a subsidiary then I think it’s fine, you can find a way to mention it on your resume or future cover letters. Especially since things changed and there’s no room to progress where you are.

    4. HR Recruiter*

      Your not a job hopper. You are advancing your career! Red flags for me are people that leave jobs to go to an equal or lower level job. Or they never stay more than a year. When your young and moving up this is a good thing that you are moving on not a bad thing!
      Of course there is a chance that the hiring manager is old stuck in the mud who says, “I hate millennial because they never stick around. I want someone to stay in an assistant role 15 years like I did!” But do you want to work for that person?

    5. Denise*

      I think that if you leave Company C without any external circumstances warranting it (like with your family or the company), then yes, you are getting into job hopper territory. You don’t sound like you have any strong reasons for leaving your company other than that you’re interested in management. Presumably, if you’re a strong performer, such a promotion would come. If you really believe there won’t be any opportunities internally, maybe you’ll be able to explain that to a potential employer. But still, you’ll be making it more difficult on yourself than necessary, especially if you are generally content with your responsibilities and pay, and the company has a good reputation.

      If you ride out the next 2.5 years, you will have built up a decent tenure at one employer and will have left due to external circumstance with your family, and so when you move you’ll be in that much stronger a position with the potential employers you reach out to.

      1. Hopelessly Lost?*

        You make good points. I’d be happy waiting another year or so to move on, but that wouldn’t give me enough time on the other end. Wish I could see my husband on staying here!

        I do love my job and my company, but I’m grossly underpaid and that’s a big part of the reason I’m itching to jump. I work a second job ~20 hours a week and I’d really like to quit that because I’m exhausted.

        1. SpaceNovice*

          Always go for health over everything; you’re underpaid and stressed out, which means you need to get out ASAP before it affects you more. I agree that you should look for another position. Lengths of stay of that size are not uncommon.

        2. DDJ*

          Ok after seeing this comment please disregard my other comment. You’re looking for growth opportunities, you should be pursuing them now. Don’t feel like you have to wait an arbitrary amount of time. Health first.

          Maybe your first move could be to negotiate salary? I’m not sure if that’s possible, depending on the job. If they’re paying way below the market, though, you might want to do some research and see if you can at least get to a point where you can make enough to quit that second job.

        3. Denise*

          Oh, if you’re so underpaid that you have to work a second job, then definitely find a better position if you can. That’s a compelling reason to leave.

          1. Hopelessly Lost?*

            For the sake of full disclosure, I’m not *that* underpaid. My salary is low for my field but considered above average in general. My husband just has a very low salary and an astronomical amount student loans. We’re trying to get ahead on those so without a second job, we wouldn’t have much left for anything but food.

            1. Autumnheart*

              Doesn’t matter. Leaving for more money that you genuinely need is a perfectly good reason.

      2. Luna*

        I agree. Unless there is something wrong with the current position or job I think leaving right now doesn’t make sense. You know you’ll be moving soon so why not just wait and build up that tenure? There is a big different between working someplace for 2 years vs. 4-5 years. Unless employers in the field tend to side-eye anyone who hasn’t moved into management within X time frame, I really don’t see the need to rush.

        1. Hopelessly Lost?*

          It’s partially opportunity cost. Since I’m so underpaid, moving up could mean a pay raise of $30-40K, and thats substantial.

          I wouldn’t say there’d be side-eyeing, but most people are well into management by 8-9 years in, so if an opportunity to move up doesn’t open up in the next 2.5 years here, future employers may wonder why I’m still a senior analyst after 8 years.

          1. Natalie*

            Since it’s that big of a pay difference, what if you committed to saving a substantial chunk of that increase just in case you have some trouble finding the next job? Having lots of job hopping on your resume doesn’t make you unemployable, but it could (maybe) make it a little harder to find your next position, meaning it might take longer. A healthy nest egg would cushion the blow and if it turns out you don’t need it you can use it for something else.

    6. k.k*

      If there’s no room for promotion at your current job, is there a way for you to push for more responsibilities? That could bolster your resume and keep you interested if you choose to wait out the 2.5 years. Whether or not it looks job hoppy really depends on your industry. For the most part, I tend to think of job hoppers as ones that are frequently making lateral moves, not moving to advanced titles like you.

    7. Jady*

      I’m a millennial for what it’s worth. Yeah – I think you’re approaching job-hopping, especially if you will be moving in another 2.5 years. If you’re otherwise okay at your job (environment isn’t toxic etc), I would personally stay in that position.

      5 companies in a row of two or less years each is a pretty clear pattern.

      You have the added hurdle of it being your first management position too. You’re inexperienced for the new position. That combined with the job history could make things difficult.

      1. Hopelessly Lost?*

        That’s a really good point. I’d like to think I’m ready for that, but maybe I’m not? And if I’m not, that could really hurt me.

        The path of least resistance is definitely staying where I am, enjoying the benefits this company does offer, sucking it up with low pay, and hoping someone eventually moves on above me. It could happen?

    8. Millennialjobhopper*

      Millennial here: I also love to change jobs. I’ll give you my path, which is kinda similar to yours and a co-worker that started the same time as me. I’ll be A, She’ll be B.

      A – Started in first professional job after college. Stayed 2 years, leaving immediately following promotion. Job was toxic. Started new job, stayed 2 years, left because dream company offered me new job, and I’m not an idiot. my titles Associate>senior associate (promo) > Senior analyst (new job) > Senior Associate (dream job). 6 years and 3 jobs.

      B –
      Associate (started with me) > analyst (new job) > senior analyst (new job) > Senior (new job) > Switched fields completely “recruiter” > senior (new job back to original field). 6 jobs in 6 years. Lovely person, terrible at her job. She’s a job hopper because she’s not very good at what she does.

      As long as you have a reason, it’s totally okay! moving for a spouse is totally normal.

    9. Aly_b*

      I think you’re totally fine right now. You’re moving up fast early in your career, which is not a bad look at all, and you’ve got a city move in there that I think people understand usually requires a new job. I would be wary of leaving again in 2.5 years after this next move though; managerial stays start to need to be longer. I would say that’s the absolute minimum and if you do that, you’d need to be really sure of the next one afterwards and stick around there for quite a while.

      1. Denise*

        You bring up a good point. If she leaves now, she will need to be that much more confident of the next one. The problem is that there’s always a set of unknowns, and it is definitely possible to take a risk believing the next one will be better only to find out that it isn’t. (Been there.) So hopping from companies you really don’t need to leave can end up forcing you to stay in a bad fit later on.

    10. Thlayli*

      I think it might be field dependent, but in my field (engineering) it is very common to have a few short contracts before getting a permanent position, so that would be totally normal.

    11. stej*

      I wouldn’t think it’s job-hoppy, but this is coming from a millennial and relative work-newbie as well (4 years experience so far).

      One strategy could be to look for a role where you could be completely remote, either now or in the future. Then if you wanted to stay beyond your relocation, there wouldn’t be an issue.

    12. Someone else*

      This doesn’t look like job hopping to me. For the first two roles, if they’re considered entry-level or entry-levelish, it seems normal to me you’d outgrow them in a year or two and move on. The third…well maybe could’ve been longer but still doesn’t strike me as “hopping” if what’s really happening is “moving up quickly”. If it were three analyst positions all 2 years long at each company, it’d look hoppy.

  11. Fake old Converse shoes (not in the US)*

    I tried to watch Aggrestsuko, but I couldn’t. It hits too close to home.
    Anyone else felt the same?

    3. epi*

      I love it, but it hits close to home for a job I no longer hold which might be why it is funny to me.

      1. AnaEatsEverything*

        That’s where I land too – I find it to be hilarious, but I’m not at that place anymore. But my husband is still a corporate cog, and he enjoys it.

    4. perpetuallytired*

      YES! My FB group chat of lady friends were just reminiscing about it and venting about jobs (or lack thereof) last night. It has a surprising evolutionary arc within such a short series.

    5. Fiddlesticks*

      I had to bail midway through the episode where her friend asks if she wants to join her business because it gave me heaving flashbacks of my own immediate record scratch of “wait, but I can’t abandon the stability of my terrible job!” when offered an out with a high degree of uncertainty. Like way to nail it, Sanrio.

    6. Fake old Converse shoes (not in the US)*

      The part when her boss complains how “busy” he is it’s so similar to my current project it hurts. Although here is karaoke and dance instead of golf.

    7. Nessun*

      As an EA to a C-suite, I had to watch long enough to see her meet the Secretary Bird (can’t recall names now) – that…that is who I want to be when I grow up.

    8. strawberries and raspberries*

      Aw man, I LOVED Aggretsuko! There have actually been times that I have locked myself in the bathroom at work and head-banged for 10 minutes. Also I loved the storyline about the shitty boring boyfriend- I feel like I dated that guy SO MANY TIMES when I was younger.

    11. Dorothy Zbornak*

      Loved it. Have binged it 3 times now. Yes it hits close to home for me, which makes the rage metal so much more cathartic to me.

  12. Happy Friday!*

    What do you like about your job?

    I’m curious about what great job aspects are out there. Here are a few things I like about mine:
    – LOTS of autonomy
    – Flexible work schedule — I choose to work 7:30-4ish
    – Awesome health benefits with $0 copay
    – Paid 1 month sabbatical every five years with vacation paid for

    1. grace*

      Every day is different! I feel like some places I’ve worked in the past I really knew what I was going to be doing that day, and here it’s like, well, I have a plan for the day, and things might totally go awry. I love that I can never totally predict the day.

      I also love how supportive and investing (? not quite the right word…) my company is in all of its employees – and my coworkers are great for advice or bouncing things off of. The environment is a huge reason why I’ve settled into the city and planned to stay here for like, three times as long as before.

    2. kristin*

      Work life balance! They are very keen here on people working to live. The parking lot is usually near empty when I leave at 5:10ish (company closes at 5). Makes it totally worth the slightly lower salary.

    3. AliceW*

      I like that my company matches my 15% contribution to my 401K, pays large bonuses and gives me flexibility on hours and work at home days.

    4. EddieSherbert*

      Sounds a lot like a large medical software company in my area that i have friends at :) So jealous of the sabbatical (which is not common in the US)!

      At my work, the pay is kind low for the industry, but I love the benefits at my job:
      – great health benefits and an onsite health clinic/doctor with weekly visits from a chiropractor, massage therapist, psychologist, etc. (discounted prices/insurance coverage)
      – a fitness center with daily classes, a rock wall, and personal trainers (all for free)
      – a large cafe where a sous chef designs the menu from only local grown/produced ingredients
      – a (cheap) CSA program that delivers to the office
      – unlimited sick leave
      – flexible work schedule
      – work from home part time
      – awesome 401K matching and employee ESOP

      1. Happy Friday!*

        I do believe we are thinking of the same large medical software company ;)

        1. Windchime*

          I have visited that company and still work intimately with that software on a daily basis :)

    5. Overeducated*

      -I get to learn about really interesting stuff.
      -My coworkers are really smart and we have complementary skills and experiences.
      -It has growth potential

    6. Emmie*

      My work is really challenging, it’s for a good cause, I am trusted, I have a lot of responsibility, and I work with people I really like. Thank you for making me think about this. I had thought about it, but didn’t realize how purpose driven I am.

    7. Amber Rose*

      Freedom. I do what I want when I want. I assign me work. I get work from others but mostly I’m on my own.

      Audits. I audit every year, sometimes other companies, it’s neat to see how other places do things.

      Training. It’s fun to be the first point of contact for new employees. My coworkers are mostly all pretty awesome too.

      The Hello Kitty duct tape in my desk. Where did it it come from, and why? Nobody knows. Best mystery ever.

      1. Happy Lurker*

        Pretend that it came from Jamie…I haven’t seen her in a while, but I come and go and could have missed her.

    8. Anonygrouse*

      -Working with smart, grounded, kind people who have a sense of humor.
      -An organization where senior leadership and other staff actually Get what my field is and why our team is important to the work we do. (I work in informatics — one of my biggest delights recently was that the finance head in our parent division calling us IT *as a joke*.)
      -Great work-life balance — no taking work home if you don’t want to, flexible schedules, good PTO.
      -The best bakery in the city is in the lobby of our office building.

    9. Crystal Smith*

      Benefits!
      – 4 weeks paid vacation time
      – 2 weeks paid sick time
      – plus holidays and a week around Christmas/New Years when we close
      – cheap health insurance (I pay <$30/month)
      – my employer contributes 10% of my salary to my retirement account, even if I don't contribute a dime.

      My department also has a very casual dress code and it's minor, but I love being able to wear jeans all the time.

      The work itself changes a lot depending on the time of year, but I really enjoy having crunch time and then downtime, and having a lot of discretion on how things get done and when.

    10. CatCat*

      – 4.5 weeks PTO/year.
      – Great health plan options with reasonable premiums
      – Transit pass reimbursement
      – Learn all kinds of interesting things
      – Work with interesting people
      – Work on a lot of hot topics
      – Long-term disability plan with low premiums
      – Office with a window
      – Nice area to walk around outside the building

    11. Jadelyn*

      – Short commute – I live in the same city I work in for the first time in my life
      – Flexibility – even though I’m hourly, they give me a ridiculous amount of leeway in my hours and I can shuffle things around pretty much whenever I need to as long as I give them some warning first
      – Learning environment – I started here with 0 experience in this kind of role, and my team was amazing about helping to teach and train me, encouraged me to go back to school to get my degree, helped me when I had questions about projects for school, all that kind of stuff
      – Variety/self-direction – there is *always* something new coming down the pipeline. I rarely ever get bored with my work since there’s lots of opportunities to change it up, and (for the most part) I have control over my own work to do things in my own time and way as long as it all gets done.

    12. [insert witty username here]*

      Ok, a lot of y’all are making me reconsider how happy I am at my job….

      Basically, what I like about my job:
      Paycheck – I wish I was making a little more, but overall, pretty happy
      I get to work from home (read: in my PJs with my dog) 3 days/week
      Flexible hours
      A decent amount of autonomy
      Manageable work load
      Decent benefits – they could be better, but they could be worse

      Definitely some of y’all with great benefits make me jealous, but what really makes me jealous are those of you who actually enjoy the work you do and your coworkers! Both of those areas are far from awful for me…. but notice they’re not on my list, either.

      So overall, things could be worse. TBH, I’m too lazy to want to move to another job. So… I try to focus on what does make me happy :)

    13. the_scientist*

      – I get a lot of autonomy in how I do my work (less so the actual work itself as it’s tied into larger projects/initiatives or government requirements)
      – challenging, interesting work related to what I went to grad school for
      – opportunities for advancement within the company, and lots of training/professional development opportunities available
      – flexible schedule and work from home options
      – great vacation and sick leave- I get something like 15 sick days a year and started as an entry-ish level employee with four weeks vacation
      – really great benefits
      – a robust defined benefit pension plan with 120% employer matching, which is essentially the holy grail of employment.

    14. Bibliovore*

      The work that I do interesting, challenging, and never boring.
      The work is autonomous and schedule flexible.
      My colleagues are smart and of great humor.
      The pay is above average for this kind of position.
      Health benefits are very good.
      Accessibility services and adjustments and modifications as needed.

    15. Fiennes*

      I’m able to schedule the vast majority of my working days however I’d like—which can mean 10-6 with an hour for lunch, or 10-10 one day and only 2 hours the next, or two hours on, two off, throughout the day, etc.

      It’s the creative field I always dreamed of being in, and it turns out I love doing it.

      Almost all of my work is at home, or anywhere I have a laptop.

      My work that isn’t at home is all travel—and while that’s sometimes a grind, I’ve been so lucky to visit parts of the country and the world I might otherwise never have seen. (Work has taken me to five continents so far; Antarctica seems like a long shot, but my fingers are always crossed for Africa.)

      When people respond warmly to my work, it’s something I deeply, genuinely cherish.

      While the pay levels vary greatly year to year (quarterly taxes are always a mystery!) my worst year freelance has still been more lucrative than my best year in an office.

      Can usually wear pajamas.

    16. There's Always Money in the Banana Stand*

      A relaxed environment is what I like the most about my job:
      Informal dress code (I can wear jeans every day, and I work directly with customers)
      No restrictions on hair colors/styles, tattoos, piercings, etc. (One of my coworkers has 2 full sleeves that she does not keep covered and a nose ring–for reference)
      We are all comfortable enough with one another to joke around and have fun
      We drink beer at 5:30 on Fridays
      My manager is caring and is flexible/helpful

      1. Jadelyn*

        Ooh, I forgot to mention that re dress code – that’s a huge perk for me. Jeans everyday, I have blue streaks in my hair and a tongue ring and a few tattoos, and nobody cares – and I’m in HR.

    17. I recognize those benefits :)*

      Used to work for that company–man, those were good benefits. I don’t miss the place, really, but those were good, good benefits indeed.

      Now I have a verrry flexible workweek (8-4) with long lunches, and I really love that.

    18. Windchime*

      – The people on my team are all smart, reasonable, and kind
      – Flexible work time (I work 6 AM to 2 PM-ish so I can avoid the worst of the traffic)
      – The work is low-stress and decently paid
      – Amazing benefits
      – I work in a high-rise in Seattle, which was a long-time dream of mine. We have floor-to-ceiling windows!

    19. EA in CA*

      Work/life balance! I FINALLY have a boss who totally understands that sometimes I need to run out the door at 5:00 pm to make it to the daycare on time so I don’t incur late charges. She has repeatedly told me that she does not expect any responses to her texts or emails after 5:00 pm, even though I have a work laptop and cellphone. I had to insist that I be on call while she traveled out of the country for work. She isn’t very travel savvy and has been known to show up to the wrong place, get lost, etc. So being on call to help her is totally my call, but makes her life so much easier.

      – professional development workshops are scheduled in house and be used to earn a certificate from the local collage that teaches the classes
      – 100% employer paid health/dental; no copay
      – Group RRSP (like a 401k? I think) with employer matching 100% of contributions
      – 3 weeks paid holidays
      – 2 weeks paid sick time
      – personal wellness/PTO days

      I get to support program initiatives that help drive the economic growth of my city, so it feels awesome working for a place that focuses outward instead of on their bottom line all the time.

    20. Jessilein*

      A lot of people are saying autonomy, and that’s huge–my boss is a bit of a dope, but at least he’s not a micro-manager, and I get to take care of my work in my own way and my own time.

      I get a bus pass and never have to drive to work.

      My office is big on work/life balance and is always super supportive if you have to be out for an emergency, a vacation, whatever. I get 4.5 weeks of vacation and 3 weeks of sick time a year and I’m never guilted for using it. I have 8 weeks of sick time saved up because I’ve been here 15 years!

      I work for a university and we get a tuition waiver, so I got my Master’s without having to take out loans.

      I have my own office. With big windows and views of the mountains. Priceless!

    21. General Ginger*

      – No dress code to speak of (aside from safety requirements), so shorts, wild hair colors, tattoos, piercings are all welcome
      – Short commute with a great, easy route, all either highway or parkway
      – Some flexibility to start and end times
      – Lots of autonomy
      – Varied workload; outside of core tasks, no two days are identical

    22. alana*

      —A job description that encourages me to be creative and innovate
      —My boss and grandboss (who was my boss a few years back before role changes for both of us). Grandboss is great at making you want to do great work on her team and boss is great at managing the day to day that gets everyone there, and they’re both incredibly kind, fun, supportive people.
      —Good benefits including LGBTQ-friendly health care
      —A collegial attitude in the workplace. Bullies and office politics players really stick out because most people just don’t act that way here. Obviously there are clashes but for the most part I can assume everyone is well-intentioned, which goes a long way.
      —Some of my starting cohort from a few years ago are now my best friends
      —Flexibility when things are quiet in a field with a lot of urgency

    23. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

      I left this job but sometimes regret it. What I miss about it is:
      – Lots of PTO. 2nd year in that role I got 6 weeks of PTO. I won’t get that here until I reach senior management.
      – 4-12% annual bonus depending on performance.
      – 6% employee matching in 401K if you paid 4%
      – discount stock in the company
      – at the time I thought it was low but 3% average raise (new place is 1.1% average).
      – employee appreciation week was a blast!
      – annual parties to celebrate award winners that were a ton of fun for everyone.
      – super LGBT inclusive culture. A lot of work on diversity and inclusion in general.
      – work from home options.

    24. Libby*

      I started my current job almost a year ago, and I’m very happy. Here are my favorite things:

      -I get to be a problem solver and fix issues that have been on their “to-do” list for years. I love solving problems. Sometimes it opens a can of worms, but I enjoy that challenge.
      -I don’t answer the phones! After being either the primary or backup phone person at my previous two jobs (5 years each), I don’t answer the main line anymore. I LOVE IT.
      -I don’t deal directly with customers. Similar change from above.
      -I have yet to deal with a crisis that even comes close to some of the fire drills at my previous two jobs, especially my last one. I usually just shrug my shoulders and go, “yeah this is nothing compared to what I was used to.” Which makes my boss laugh.
      -What we do is super specialty so I can’t give it away here, but when people ask me where I work their response is usually, “Oh wow that’s so cool!” And it really is.

    25. Cedrus Libani*

      I’ve been in my new job a bit over three months, and I feel quite lucky.

      The work uses my training and skills. I am mutant-level good at spotting patterns in complex data…the job posting mentioned needing someone who could do that, and the job actually does require it. So I’m good at my job, which always helps.

      My boss is great. He treats his people like adults, who know things and are sometimes right about stuff. This alone makes an enormous difference. My previous boss treated his people like unruly toddlers, so I’m still adjusting.

      My coworkers are…adults, who know things and are sometimes right about stuff. Zero drama.

      The salary and benefits are good, probably better than market. The same week I interviewed for this job, I had another interview. On that other interview, it became clear that the person they needed was me fifteen years from now, not current me. So when they asked my salary expectations, I basically said so. Market is $X for someone at my level, but the role is enough of a stretch for me that I’d do it for $10K less. They looked at me like I’d asked for three firstborn children and a llama. (Didn’t have the heart to tell them how much the person they actually needed would cost.) At the interview for my current job, HR asked, I said $X. Then my current boss asked, I said $X again. Boss sighed, asked if I’d already told HR that, then told me not to worry, he would fix it. Their offer was $23K more…

      I come from a startup background, and never thought I’d end up at a ginormungous corporate place, but I could get used to this. There’s bureaucracy and acronyms, but it’s manageable.

    26. Still really needs a new username*

      I’m loving my short term contract job so much that I’m thinking about taking up the offer for full time.

      – genuine support from the support departments (IT, HR, enrolments, marketing, recruitment.)
      – above award wages
      – flexible 76/hr fortnight
      – clear KPI’s
      – clear expectations from my boss
      – positive staff team who have taken on change well (apart from two from my post last week)
      – a client/customer feedback system which works

    27. Lasslisa*

      There’s always something new to figure out and learn. It’s a really dynamic role solving interesting problems.

      Almost everyone I work with is smart and reasonable and interested in solving problems more than assigning blame. And getting blame-y beyond a frustrated aside in the coffee room is a sign of pretty serious burnout, not the norm.

      I also like that my management clearly sees a lot of potential in me and is helping me grow into leadership positions. We are what feels like a rare bird, the company that actually promotes from within.

    28. Mimmy*

      I’m a little jealous of some of you! I don’t *love* my job, but there are a couple of things I like. These aren’t the usual tangible things like professional development or benefits – they’re more like “appreciations”

      -The variety of students I’ve had the opportunity to work with

      -The autonomy to adapt my instruction where appropriate: this is especially true when a student has other challenges that may impact learning the traditional methods. I’ll admit that I’m not very creative, but trying something just a little bit different every now and then makes this otherwise dull and tedious instructional area (touch-typing) more tolerable for me.

      -Because I am surrounded by many people who are blind and visually impaired–students and staff alike–I have come to learn that blindness exists on a spectrum and affects people in all different ways and can be accommodated for in as many ways. There is much more that I want to learn though.

    29. Quinoa*

      My manager frequently gives me helpful feedback, both the positive and the uncomfortable.
      My health care premiums are 100% paid.
      I’m respected and appreciated for what I do.
      I am surrounded by extraordinarily smart and kind people.
      I absolutely love what I do.

  13. Wannabe Disney Princess*

    Trying not to worry. Haven’t heard a peep from the place I’ve been interviewing. They’ve NEVER taken this long to get back to me. In reality, I know not hearing back in over a week isn’t a long time …it’s just odd when they’ve been so swift. I mean, my first interview was on a Tuesday and I heard back that Friday.

    So, instead, I’m trying to distract myself. Which isn’t difficult as my birthday is on Monday!!!

        1. Detective Amy Santiago*

          Thanks! I’m enjoying my couple of days off and trying to get some stuff done around my apartment.

    2. bumbletea*

      Good luck, and I hope you get it! Having been on the other side, our final decision-making always took longer than the time in between interview steps. We had a well-defined timeline for moving people forward from resume to phone to in-person, but not for the final offer, even when there weren’t other interviews lined up to finish off before deciding. Getting certain hiring managers to commit is like herding cats sometimes!

      1. Wannabe Disney Princess*

        Thank you! I do appreciate the insight. I’ve read enough here to know that this (probably) means nothing.

        Sane, Logical, Rational Wannabe Disney Princess realizes this.

        Not-so-sane, Illogical Wannabe Disney Princess is convinced it’s over and is mentally throwing herself on a chaise lounge and weeping. (My irrational side has a thing for dramatics.)

        1. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

          I’ll join you on that chaise lounge! I had an interview on Monday, they TOLD me they had another interview scheduled for Friday (today) so I definitely definitely won’t hear back until at least next week if not the week after, but I already know I’ll be a hysterical mess if they don’t call me tonight, or at worst, Monday :P I’m trying to do what Alison recommends and already pretend I didn’t get it, but I honestly don’t know what I’m going to do if that happens.

    3. Future Analyst*

      I know how hard that wait is!! Hang in there. Last time this happened to me, it was b/c the HR contact was out on PTO for the week (which was excruciating to wait through, not knowing that she was out)… so hopefully it’s just a case of someone being out, and the offer is forthcoming!

    4. The Original K.*

      Mine is Sunday! Go Taureans!

      I’m in a similar situation – I’ve actually written off a place I’ve been interviewing because it’s taking them longer than usual to get back to me. If they follow up, great! If not, I’ve checked out. I have another set of second-round interviews next week so I’m giving that all my attention. I was also just contacted by someone else this morning, though for supplemental materials, not an interview. (The materials were not requested as part of the original application.)

  14. I'm A Little TeaPot*

    This email went out to my department today, and it’s equal parts hilarious and frighteningly clear evidence of a serious cultural problem. Sometimes the problems show up in quirky ways. Thought I’d share so you can at least laugh. Background: One well liked staff member is leaving for another job, his last day is today. Another person on his team wrote and sent this out as a joke. It’s hilarious, but also serves as a warning to management if they choose to heed it since to me at least it’s pretty clear evidence that there’s a problem. All names changed of course. (Note, “Sam” is well known as being devoutly Catholic, a fact which has come up in some dysfunctional ways at times.)
    ——————————
    Dear Friends,

    We gather here today not to mourn the transition of our friend Sam, but to celebrate his life here in . Sam was a quiet, simple man. Some might say a gentle giant. His gentility only outsized by his love of Doughnuts. Sam was always a source of inspiration to his fellow officemates, regularly taking time out of his day to make us all better people by reminding us of the wisdom of life’s little lessons with his heartfelt pearls of wisdom like, “This is not a conference room…” or one particularly dear to me, “It’s five o’clock…I’m leaving.”

    Let us take Sam’s wise words to heart as a call to action for us to celebrate our own lives, our own accomplishments, and our own doughnuts. It is what Sam would want for us all. I know that Sam will always look down and smile on us, and his spirit will bless our audit reports from afar and his steady, unyielding hand will guide our work true.

    Sam leaves behind his Manager, Team Lead, his long-term cubicle partner, A, fellow members B, C, and D, and a Tom Selleck bobble head.

    9:00 A.M. – 10:00 A.M.
    Doughnut Processional

    10:00 A.M. – 11:00 A.M.
    Repast

    HYMNAL – JUMP AROUND – HOUSE OF PAIN AS PERFORMED BY THE ABBEY TABERNACLE CHOIR

    11:00 – 12:00 P.M.
    Lunch

    SOLO
    Only God Can Judge Me – TUPAC SHAKUR AS PERFORMED BY

    12:00 P.M. – 10:00 P.M.
    Visitation – St. Cardozo’s Holy Sepulcher Cathedral and Dive Bar

    “It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known…”

    2016-2018

    2. Fake old Converse shoes (not in the US)*

      It’s so weird I love it. But then, I also like stuff like The Blue Danube arranged for violin and rubber chicken, and Duet for French Horn and chair.

      1. Shishimai*

        Duet for French Horn and Chair makes me /howl/ with laughter. I’m not going to pull that up in the office, but just thinking about it makes me smile.

        …have you seen the sheet music for it?

    3. Alternative Person*

      This is amazing.

      I want to work in a place where I could get that kind of send off.

      (Although one time I tried to convince a co-worker to riff on Rimmer’s ‘People I have met’ speech from Red Dwarf.)

      1. I'm A Little TeaPot*

        Believe me, you do not want to work here. This is coming out of some serious problems. I’ve been here since December and am job searching now.

        1. Alternative Person*

          I change my response to …work with people where…

          Best of luck with your job hunt.

        3. General Ginger*

          On the one hand, the letter is funny, on the other hand, the funeral-esque theme kind of feels like either Sam’s gone to a better (work)place, or the remaining coworkers are feeling kind of funereal about staying. And given that Sam’s only been there 2 years, which isn’t in and of itself a bad tenure, but in combination with the rest…. ehhhh.

          1. I'm A Little TeaPot*

            2 years is an old timer in this department.
            Everyone is going with the humor side. But it’s both – better workplace and everyone’s sad about coming.

        4. The OG Anonsie*

          To be totally honest I can’t tell from the email exactly what the serious problems are.

    6. I'm A Little TeaPot*

      Agh, internet formatting got me. Here’s the same thing with different formatting so it’ll work.

      Dear Friends,

      We gather here today not to mourn the transition of our friend Sam, but to celebrate his life here in *dept*. Sam was a quiet, simple man. Some might say a gentle giant. His gentility only outsized by his love of *team* Doughnuts. Sam was always a source of inspiration to his fellow officemates, regularly taking time out of his day to make us all better people by reminding us of the wisdom of life’s little lessons with his heartfelt pearls of wisdom like, “This is not a conference room…” or one particularly dear to me, “It’s five o’clock…I’m leaving.”

      Let us take Sam’s wise words to heart as a call to action for us to celebrate our own lives, our own accomplishments, and our own doughnuts. It is what Sam would want for us all. I know that Sam will always look down and smile on us, and his spirit will bless our reports from afar and his steady, unyielding hand will guide our work true.

      Sam leaves behind his Manager, Team Lead, his long-term cubicle partner, A, fellow *team* members B, C, and D, and a Tom Selleck bobble head.

      9:00 A.M. – 10:00 A.M.
      Doughnut Processional

      10:00 A.M. – 11:00 A.M.
      Repast

      HYMNAL – JUMP AROUND – HOUSE OF PAIN AS PERFORMED BY THE ABBEY TABERNACLE CHOIR

      11:00 – 12:00 P.M.
      Lunch

      SOLO
      Only God Can Judge Me – TUPAC SHAKUR AS PERFORMED BY *senior manager”

      12:00 P.M. – 10:00 P.M.
      Visitation – St. Cardozo’s Holy Sepulcher Cathedral and Dive Bar

      “It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known…”

      *name*
      2016-2018

    7. CS Rep By Day, Writer By Night*

      OMG, that is amazing in both its hilarity and savagery. I want to high-five whoever wrote it.

    9. HR Recruiter*

      The HR in me is cringing. Hopefully Sam has a good sense of humor and there really is doughnuts. Becasue if there is no doughnut processional than this is cruel to all of the staff. LOL

      1. I'm A Little TeaPot*

        There really are donuts, every Friday. Good ones too, the guy who sent it out brings them in. Sam thinks it’s awesome, but he’s on his way out of a dysfunctional environment and he knows it. All the staff think the email is hilarious from what I can tell. Managers are quieter about it.

        Cringing is the right response though. Staff turnover hit a high of 70% year over year in the worst of the toxic, and is still well above a healthy department’s stats.

        2. Anon..*

          A manager at my old toxic workplace sent out emails like this, too!

          Only the emails all riffed on the company’s name (think: AirPony Co., and the emails for someone leaving were all pony-themed). They were funny, but out of the necessity to have something positive about the workplace – it was that toxic!

    12. CatCat*

      This is phenomenal! The stuff of office legend. I would print it out and treasure it forever.

    14. Delphine*

      This is hilarious, but I’m not seeing the evidence of cultural problems–what does it say to you?

      1. I'm A Little TeaPot*

        Think of how people typically talk about death – the deceased went to a better place. That’s the undercurrent here. Anon..’s post above here about their former manager sending out funny emails because people needed the levity is applicable as well.

      2. Anon..*

        Exactly. This type of thing reads “Fun! Hysterical!” on the outside, but imagine the context surrounding it: if a workplace is lenient/casual/”fun” enough for this sort of email to fly, then there are very likely deeper issues with boundaries, work/life balance, disorganization, just general unprofessional(/not kosher) practices, etc.

        1. I'm A Little TeaPot*

          I’d describe it as more repressed and the guy who sent the email really does not care.

          I will say this: the pay, PTO, and benefits are excellent.

      3. Close Bracket*

        The riff on Catholic mass is reaaaally thin ice. I find it hysterical, personally, but I would not send anything like this out at work. It borders too closely to mockery, and that someone thought sending it out at work indicates that to the workplace need some serious recalibration regarding appropriate behavior

        1. I'm A Little TeaPot*

          On the surface, behavior is appropriate. However, there are instances of WTF situations that are kept fairly quiet. The two halves of a former couple who are legally prevented from having contact with each other but work in the same department, for example. (I have no idea why either of them are still here.) Yeah, there’s issues.

        2. Triple Anon*

          “Gentle giant” could be an issue depending on his actual physique. Also, didn’t “Only God Can Judge Me” come out after Tupac’s legal problems? I could be wrong. I’ll have to look it up.

          1. I'm A Little Teapot*

            “gentle giant” is accurate to both physique and temperament.

    15. Nita*

      Wait, what? Where is Sam going? I cannot work it out from that email. Kind of sounds like he’s retiring or getting a new job, but with this format, I expect a few panicked phone calls asking if he’s passed on…

      1. I'm A Little TeaPot*

        He got a new job in a different industry but 100% in line with his training. Everyone knows as well, there was an email last week about today being his last day. So rather than panic, the response was hilarity.

    19. Kittymommy*

      Omg. I need this to happen if I leave my job!! This might be my favorite thing this week.

    20. N Twello*

      Wow. That is disturbing. This seems like a really mean rant by a Catholic hater against someone the writer loathes. It is very well written and funny, but it seems to be filled with hate and resentment. You say that Sam is well-liked; did the letter-writer hate him? Is the letter-writer anti-Catholic?

      I have known people who use humor to hurt and belittle others, and it is an especially cruel way to treat someone. Sending this out in wide distribution is just awful. Sam is lucky to be out of there but is likely leaving with some deep scars.

      1. I'm A Little TeaPot*

        It doesn’t seem to be playing that way, or have had that intention at all. From what I can tell, Sam and the guy who wrote the email get along great and there’s no issues with religion. It’s really just a reflection of a messed up culture overall, with perhaps some jealously that Sam is getting out of it thrown in. That said, everyone here has work-related PTSD, so no arguing on the scars.

      2. Lasslisa*

        To me it reads like something my Catholic family would write, and laugh and laugh about. I don’t really get anything mean from it, just riffing off a familiar form.

  15. OJ Mojo*

    So it’s always been recommended to reach out to the hiring manager if you know them already, but what would you say? Especially if you’ve already applied through the proper channels.

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      “I saw that you’re hiring for a Llama Groomer and wanted to let you know that I submitted my application. I really enjoyed working with you at Llama’s Inc and look forward to possibly doing so again.”

      2. HR Recruiter*

        Yup this. Just shoot them an email so they can make sure they see your application and it doesn’t get rejected before it gets to them.

        1. OJ Mojo*

          That’s actually what happened. An hour after the email was sent to the hiring manager, there was a rejection email waiting, I’m assuming from HR. Hiring manager replied and asked to see resume so I guess it’s still a possibility. It was acknowledged that a rejection email was received though when attaching the resume but no response after that.

          1. Detective Amy Santiago*

            So, funny story. The job I am starting next week? HR never forwarded my application to the hiring manager for unknown reasons. The only reason I got an interview/the job is because someone put my name in front of the hiring manager and she asked for my application.

            Last week, I got an auto rejection for the position that I am starting from the HR system (two months later). The especially weird part is that I applied for a very similar position in a different department in the organization (same title, nearly the same duties) and HR did pass my application along for that one.

  16. Sapphire*

    Weekly unemployment thread! Feel free to talk about how your job searches are going.

    I just started my temp job this week, and I’m already feeling better about this place than my old job. I haven’t been able to put many applications in this week but I plan to do a few over the weekend. My boss was even willing to go over job postings at this company with me if I’m interested in working here full time (this is a ten-week assignment).

    1. BenAdminGeek*

      So great to hear! Best of luck, and that’s a great sign that the boss is willing to assist. Fingers crossed.

      1. Sapphire*

        Thank you! She even invited me to a meeting of the company’s multicultural society yesterday (which seems to be their diversity group) and it was a nice way to meet more people.

    2. Bird*

      My fiancee is still job searching. She’s been rejected by another 2 positions this week, with many more simply not ever getting back to her about her application. She has been applying for jobs since October 2017, and has only gotten two interviews. Her contract is up at her current job at the end of June.

    3. beanie beans*

      I had an interview Monday that went pretty well, but I’m worried that between a much faster paced industry and a terrible commute, it’ll burn me out fast.

      It’s in a really terrible area for commuting and the people I interviewed with said “yes, but we have a lot of flexibility around schedules, so people can come in early or late to work around the traffic.” I appreciate the flexibility, but the thought of having to drastically change my schedule to accommodate traffic suuuuucks. I don’t want to have to come in by 7 or wait til 10. My current one-way commute is about 45 min total by bus and this would easily be 45-60 min by car, which isn’t the worst, but would really change my daily mindset.

      I hate to pass up a decent job because of a commute but argh. Makes me really want to find a job working from home!

  17. DogMama*

    Hi all! I was the one who wrote in about creating an Instagram for my dog a few weeks ago.
    I ended up creating one and actually used it in an email to a prospective employer (I’d be able to bring my dog to work!). I now have a Skype interview with them this afternoon!
    I’ve never done a Skype interview before… I’ve been looking up a lot about it. I feel pretty confident but I’m still nervous. Any random tips you can think of besides making sure the light is right and wearing a full interview outfit from head to toe? I already put a bunch of mini sticky notes all over my laptop screen with little notes.

    1. Amelia*

      Call a friend before the interview. Make sure your microphone and everything else is set right. Test your internet etc. Ask your friend to take a screenshot. Carefully examine your background. Make sure you’re framed well in the screen (camera not looking up your nose etc). Also check your lighting, a lamp on near you works well.

      Also make some simple plans for troubleshooting, do you have their number handy if your internet glitches out and you need to call to let them know and reschedule. What if your neighbors start making noise? Do you have an alternate room to move into or have you at least made sure fans, windows shut. That sort of thing.

      Good luck!

    2. Buffy*

      I stack my laptop on a few books so the camera is more aligned with my eye level. Hope that helps!

    3. kristin*

      Practice a call with someone you know to make sure you have the tech ironed out!

    4. ContentWrangler*

      Make sure you have a comfortable seat and a good height for your computer so you don’t shift around a lot. Check what will be behind you in the camera shot, a nice clean background is best. And if you live with anyone, put lots of signs up to warn that a Skype interview is going on and to keep it quiet.

    5. SoSo*

      Check your connection and do a test call before hand (or maybe even a few) with someone, that way you can find any kinks with the audio, video quality, or your internet. Good luck with your interview, though! Sending lots of positive thoughts.

    6. anonykins*

      In addition to Amelia’s great advice, if you wear glasses, make sure they don’t glare with the screen’s reflection. I’ve taken mine off for Skype interviews in the past.

      Skype interviews can be great because of the ability to use notes! Just make sure you’re not obviously reading off them.

    7. Free Meerkats*

      Look at the camera and not your screen.

      Don’t rustle papers on our desk.

      Put the animals somewhere else.

      If it’s difficult to find an uncluttered background, find some way to hang a neutral colored sheet behind where you’ll be.

    8. it_guy*

      Just make sure your furry four footed friend is not in the room with you!

      My sister did a Skype interview and forgot her cat was in the room with her, and she kept walking back and forth on her desk. She later found out that they were amused by the cat tail (that’s all they could see) going back and forth on their video screen.

    9. thelettermegan*

      sit in front of a bookshelf so you look smart!

      Make sure all the books are safe for work first.

    10. MJ*

      Definitely do a dry-run test first. Even something pretty basic — I usually pop open Photo Booth or something to make sure that the window by my desk isn’t too bright, and that my background is at least basically neutral. (I have an American Girl doll who’s usually displayed on a radiator behind me. She gets moved for interviews.) I swap out my glasses for contacts, too, otherwise half my face is just bright reflections.

      Don’t worry too much! My cat has made a few surprise visits to video interviews; I usually pre-warn by apologizing that I have a studio apartment and a cat, and no one has ever been upset. (One of my interviewers actually picked up his camera and walked across the room to show me *his* cat, which was a sweet moment!) You can see also see part of my kitchen (which is literally in a closet) from most angles. People understand that you are a human in a human dwelling, and it’s okay, honestly!

  18. Alternative Person*

    I live in Japan and this week has three national holidays.

    I had to work all of them. I don’t particularly mind working a bank holiday, a day at work is a day at work and I need to hang on to my paid holidays (I would like a day in lieu or some sort of holiday pay but that’s another discussion). But the least management could have done was confirm-call to see if regularly scheduled clients were coming in. There was nothing planned for the staff to fill the time. This would have been perfect for staff training but no, sitting around looking busy is the best they can come up with.

    1. EddieSherbert*

      Boo, that stinks. I can’t stand sitting in the office with nothing to do (let alone on a holiday AND a Friday!). Hopefully it goes quick!

    2. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

      My understanding is that Japan is very much a work first culture.

    3. Ursula*

      I went to university in Japan we always had classes during golden week, but my friend who went to a nearby university got the week off. I feel your pain.

  19. Opalescent Tree Shark*

    We are hiring right now for an entry level position. I was on the panel for our interviews yesterday. Two candidates were awesome and we are probably going to hire them (we have multiple open positions). The other two were not great. More than other interviews I have conducted, I feel bad for the not great ones. One was fresh out of college (literally graduating in two weeks) and was very nervous and all over the place. I totally understand, but she didn’t demonstrate the skills that we need for the position. I think I am going to email her after we let her know our decision to direct her to this site.
    The other one I also want to give feedback to, but I don’t think it would go over well. She spent a lot of time in the interview talking about how she was a llama midwife, but applied for this job as a llama trainer because jobs were hard to get in llama midwifery. She mentioned that she had applied to 8 (yes 8!) positions at our company and really would rather have a llama midwife position. She started many questions with “As a llama midwife…” She came off as kind of obnoxious. I feel bad though because she didn’t seem to have any sort of self-awareness around this.
    Also, in the email we sent out inviting our candidates to an interview, we say that if you have any questions before the interview to email back. The fore-mentioned obnoxious candidate emailed back 6 questions, bullet pointed. Some were questions about benefits and some were strange, like “which llama is hardest to work with?”

    1. Sapphire*

      Please don’t give unsolicited feedback to a candidate. I’ll only speak for myself, but I wouldn’t want to get a rejection and also an email saying “Here’s all the things you did wrong in your interview”. If the candidate asks, that’s a different story, but that would make the rejection sting even worse for me.

      1. Opalescent Tree Shark*

        That’s fair. I was thinking of giving feedback because I know how hard job searching can be and I want them to have the tools to succeed, but I didn’t full think about it from their perspective.

      2. Mirth & Merry*

        Agreed! Maybe an offer for feedback so the candidate can decide? For a company/job I was very interested in I would love this, but for a meh job I wouldn’t care.
        PS do it over email, I got an offer for feedback once and while I really wanted the feedback they wanted to do it over the phone! I wanted that job so bad I couldn’t imagine *hearing* it and not trying to explain/rebuke the concerns. Reading is so much better

    2. Temperance*

      I honestly wouldn’t give either of those candidates feedback, FWIW. I also probably wouldn’t direct the first candidate to this site.

    3. Irene Adler*

      Could I trouble you to explain why the two “awesome” candidates were awesome please?
      That would really help me out I’m stuck at the interview level and cannot get beyond this in the job search process.
      I know not to be obnoxious, and to match my skills to the skills asked for in the job description, but that, apparently, is not enough. What’s the secret?
      Thank you.
      And yes, it would be difficult to be both rejected and to be directed to a web site for pointers on how to do better. I have asked for feedback. This has been mixed. Some was helpful; some pointed out that the other candidate was simply a better candidate. No explanation as to what “better” means.

      1. Opalescent Tree Shark*

        For us, the things that made the two awesome candidates awesome really has a lot to do with the specific job we are hiring for. It involves a lot of teamwork under stress. Handling pressure with a positive attitude and being a good personality fit with the rest of the team are important to us. One awesome candidate stood out because she was unfailingly calm and warm throughout the interview even though she was in front of a panel of 4 people and she had to do a presentation. The other awesome candidate was a little nervous during her presentation, but one of her answers to one of our questions really made me want to hire her. The question was “What makes you uniquely qualified for this position?” Everyone else answered with qualities or experiences that make them qualified, but expected. The awesome candidate brought up an expected experience, but she talked about something unique she learned from it and how that could benefit our institution. It showed that she had really good instincts for what the needs of our audience are.

      2. Lindsay J*

        For me, a lot of it is about body language and presentation.

        Does the person seem interested in the position? Are they slouched back in their chair or are they sitting up-right or leaning forward a bit?

        Do they expound on their points, or give dry one word answers and need to be prodded for more info?

        Are they dressed appropriately and is their appearance in general neat?

        Do they seem prepared for the interview? Do they have a basic understanding about what the position they are applying for is? Have they researched the company at all? Are they able to come up with answers to common interview questions are are they stymied when asked to tell me a little about themself?

        At the end of the interview, do they ask any questions, and are the questions they ask relevant to the position? I don’t mind if they ask about benefits, etc, but I would hope that those are not the only questions that they ask. If I’ve really covered everything, I appreciate a, “Well, I normally ask what an average day in the position would be like, but you covered that pretty well before I think.”

        And sometimes, a candidate is just better because they have way more experience, or way more specific experience in the field than another candidate and there’s not really much the other candidate could do to overcome that.

        We might give interviews to both because it could become clear in the interview that the front-runner candidate lied about or exaggerated their experience, or maybe they wind up being late and don’t apologize, or are rude to the interviewer or something like that. Or because we think that maybe the non-front runner candidate might have similar experience that they didn’t display well on their resume, or similar. But in some cases just experience or achievement wise another candidate is clearly the closest what they were looking for and either they would have to severely blow it or the other candidate would have to blow us out of the water for us to go with the non-front-runner.

    4. AnotherJill*

      It is hard to see candidates fail when they may just need some pointers on how to present themselves in an interview. But I wouldn’t provide feedback unless asked and even then only if feedback is approved by your HR.

    5. CheeryO*

      Eep, I have to admit that I would have found it condescending even as a new grad to be pointed to this site after getting a rejection. I’m sure she knows that she needs practice.

      1. Opalescent Tree Shark*

        Ok, that’s fair. I can definitely see how that would be condescending. My desire to point her here is almost definitely more about my feelings than her feelings. I just could see that she was trying hard, but still completely missing the mark and I just want to fix it for her. But, I do know that I can’t fix everyone’s problems for them. She will learn on her own.

        1. Marvel*

          I think you could definitely say something in the rejection email offering feedback without actually giving it unasked for–maybe just a quick, “I’m available if you’d like any feedback on your performance.”

    6. Unsolicited feedback is a risky thing...*

      I interviewed college student candidates for a tiger grooming internship recently, and I did send some feedback to one I thought would receive it well. However, only positive feedback of the, you did this well, do more of it variety.

      After the regrets part was out of the way, I said I got the impression he’d appreciate a little feedback about his interview. I told him that while I could tell he was nervous, his nerves didn’t hurt him as he answered our questions well and was able to build a rapport with us. And I told him how much more relaxed and confident he appeared when talking about llama grooming, and that that confidence would make him stand out when interviewing for llama grooming jobs.

      There were several small errors I could have mentioned, but all par for the course when interviewing interns. I figured trying to encourage him about the good parts would be much more helpful in the long run. And he did write back and thank me for the encouragement. He really would have been a great intern, if only he’d had the slightest interest in tigers.

  20. Remote/work from home question*

    People who work from home – what does your home office set up look like?

    I’m soon to start a remote position which I have never done before. For the time being, I have a tv tray and a couch, but obviously need a better set up. I have very limited space so am hoping to find a desk solution that can be folded up or stored away. Anyone come up with creative solutions for working form home with limited space?

    1. AliceW*

      I bought a cheap folding-table desk on Amazon. No assembly required. Works great and can also function as a small kitchen table.

      1. BenAdminGeek*

        Yes! I did this for the first year I worked from home, and it was awesome. Lots of space to spread out, I could move things easily. It was $38 and allowed me to really learn how to design my desk space.

    2. Jesse Pink*

      In grad school I used my ironing board, but I don’t really recommend that option. Dining table stands in for a desk. Super space saver!

    3. Tardigrade*

      I didn’t do remote work, but I used to have a Murphy/fold-out desk (almost identical to the one linked in my user name) for my laptop and loved it for the space saving concept. Just make sure you use an actual, comfortable chair, unlike I did.

      1. Moonbeam Malone*

        Thank you for linking that desk – I’m going to save that for later! And omg, yes to the comfy chair. I actually had to get a coccyx pillow at one point because I bruised my tailbone while working on a freelance project (I think just from sitting too much?) and it was really terrible. I still use the pillow because I’m not going through that again.

    4. awb*

      There are coffee tables where the table top raises – the idea is that you can raise it so you can eat dinner from your sofa comfortably. Maybe look into one of these as I assume that’s probably also the right height to work from? https://www.wayfair.com/furniture/sb0/lift-top-coffee-tables-c1867104.html

      Alternatively, create one of these hinged tables, where it’s secured to the wall and folds away when you are not using it! Add a shelf above, and you have storage too. https://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/categories/departments/dining/25206/

      1. EddieSherbert*

        +1 for the hinged tables. I had one for a while that worked great (for a TINY kitchen – so I mostly ate it at, but occasionally ate/worked on laptop).

    5. Fiennes*

      Have you checked out Murphy desks? They mount on the wall and unfold only when you need them; compartments in the wall unit serve the function of drawers. My partner has one in his studio, which he takes down or folds up as needed. Great for small spaces, assuming you’re in a position to mount something on the wall. (A savvy landlord might see it as an improvement to the apartment—and you could pitch it that way.)

    6. Windchime*

      I’m lucky enough to have an extra bedroom that serves as my office. I used to have a giant, heavy desk in there but I got rid of it in favor of a desk with a smaller footprint. Right now, my “office” also serves as a staging area for unused lamps and boxes of things to be donated, so it’s not the most serene environment. I’m off today; I should go tidy that room up.

    7. Thlayli*

      I have a desk but tbh I used to do most of my work snuggled up in bed with the laptop when I worked from home.

    8. Bored IT Guy*

      For the time being (translate: until I have multiple kids of an age that would need their own bedroom (and I don’t even have any kids at the moment)), I have a dedicated home office. Desk, desk chair, docking station for the laptop, 2 monitors, comfortable mouse, and a good USB headset. I have a TV and a couch in the room, but I rarely use them when I’m working. (Bored IT Gal, on the other hand, almost always has the TV on when she’s working remotely)

    10. Someone else*

      The number 1 thing I can share with you is this:
      Get a good chair.

      I have worked from super cheap tiny Ikea desks. I have worked from giant hulking solid wooden desks. I have worked at kitchen tables and plastic folding tables. The desk barely matters if most of your work is on a laptop. I have done all sorts of horrible things to my neck and back from trying to work in crappy chairs, or chairs not quite the right height for whatever desk I was working from, and lots in between. The best thing I ever did for my comfort while working was getting a good chair. I know if you’re tight on space getting a really good chair for your collapsible office might seem silly, but if you can find a nice one that would fit in with the rest of your furniture anyway and maybe pull double-duty, get a good chair. You will not regret it.

    11. Hamburke*

      I don’t work from my home anymore (I work from someone else’s home office and if I didn’t walk thru the her kitchen and living room, you’d never know). When I did, I converted my “living room” to my office. I had our old kitchen table, got a comfy oversized rolling chair and added a printer stand with drawers – ooh and wifi over power lines so I could plug in my voip phone. I already had an ikea 16 cube bookcase in there but changed out a few of the cubes to be more functional.

      My husband still works from home. He needs more quiet than I did and so is tucked away in our oversized extra walk-in closet (we have one that we use and this one had our camping stuff stored in there). He built a corner style desk that fits the space and has a printer stand with drawers and a small bookshelf.

      We have space so that want a problem. In our old house, we had a Murphy desk in our kitchen- I would do it again in a heartbeat!

  21. Cass in Canada*

    I finally found my dream team to work! I just left a really toxic work environment and am loving my new job. I want to build a solid foundation to work from to do awesome work for my new company.

    Does anyone have any strategies, ideas or suggestions or career moves that you made starting a new job that set you for success, especially as a junior team member?

    Some details that may be relevant; I’m juniorish (5 years out of college), work in a technical scientific field in consulting, and just left a terrible work environment so I’m terrified of messing this up. I know I can do good work and have been told that I am awesome to work with when I am performing at my best.

    1. Jules the Third*

      Ask questions about how to find the information you need, and always spend at least five minutes checking the sources.
      When you do ask questions, you can say, ‘I checked A and B, didn’t see the exact answer’
      Write down the answers.
      Take feedback positively not defensively.

      My new employee is driving me crazy by asking the same questions over again, despite the answers being written in the documentation that we used for training, and for the first two times she asked the question.

    2. Trout 'Waver*

      When you think you have everything figured out, you’re probably wrong. When you finally master your role, that is the time to listen more and understand how other roles interact with your role.

      Also, when you’re junior in a STEM environment, save up your questions until you have several and schedule a time to talk to your boss or senior scientist or whomever has answers. Don’t randomly interrupt the senior problem solvers constantly.

      Also, when you’re on a good team in a good environment, you typically have a lot of latitude. As long as you’re following procedures and working safely, just do stuff. Don’t rely on other people to remake buffers, or change light bulbs, or troubleshoot equipment for you. In a good environment, mistakes are corrected and not punished.

      1. Evergreen*

        Agree, avoid interrupting constantly, but if you’ve gotten stuck, looked for evidence, tried a couple of ideas, asked another junior, and it’s been more than 30 mins – ASK!

        I’m a senior engineer (9ish years in consulting) and I can promise you after about half an hour the budget spent on spinning wheels is well worth the interruption!!

    3. Holly Flax*

      Document processes yourself if they are are not given to you in writing, even for seemingly simple things. Keep your email inbox and calendar well organized. It is very easy to lose track of things the first couple of weeks because you get bombarded with meeting invites and documents.
      I also left a very terrible work environment before starting my current job, and one thing I focused on was not dwelling on my old job too much in conversations with my new coworkers. It really helped to hit the reset button, do away with the negativity and get off on the right foot with my new team.

    4. alana*

      Do whatever it takes to get yourself in the headspace of this no longer being Toxic OldJob. A lot of times when people move into healthier environments, they carry assumptions about expectations, their coworkers’ behavior or reactions, etc., that end up hurting them. (For example, overexplaining because their previous boss was a micromanager, or constantly apologizing/putting themselves down because the last environment involved a lot of yelling and it was easier to yell at yourself first.) Tell yourself as much as you need to that these coworkers are good and competent people AND that they hired you because you are a good and competent person, and that just because Oldboss X threw fingernail clippings at anyone who was 2 minutes late to a deadline doesn’t mean you shouldn’t tell Oldboss Y you’re running late and ask what she’d prefer you do.

    5. Lasslisa*

      I would just warn you that there will very likely come a time, perhaps in six months or so, when you realize that you are not learning as fast as you thought you would and the job is more complicated and more difficult than you thought it would be, and this is completely normal. Any new thing that you start doing, you will reach a point where you start to notice you are not an expert yet, and most people become disheartened by this. But you keep learning, and you get better, and you have a better understanding after that point of what the job really entails.

      I was talking with some colleagues and friends recently about training courses and leadership trainings we had taken, and we all ended up sharing stories about how all these different development programs shared the same observation in various ways.

      For me I made the opposite mistake from what’s described in above comments, and I would spend much too long trying to figure something out for myself before going and asking the expert. My corporate culture does not document heavily, we rely a lot on having each engineer with areas of expertise, and I could spend hours or days digging through outdated documentation trying to reverse engineer how something worked when I really needed to spend 15 or 20 minutes getting an explanation from the expert.

  22. Foreign Octopus*

    Oh my god, what a week.

    There was an electric storm on Sunday and it cut my internet out for 24 hours, which meant that I wasn’t able to work on Monday – the busiest day of my week with ten hours of lessons. I had to race down to town (thank you, neighbour for giving me a lift) to let my students know I wasn’t going to be able to make it. The internet then when down on Wednesday and cut out again; I nearly cried.

    I feel exhausted trying to play catch up.

    Also, congratulations to Alison for her book!

  23. LSP*

    My husband and I have been trying for our second kid for well over a year, and had even started the initial testing with a fertility doctor when we found out we had suddenly been able to conceive entirely on our own! YAY!

    I’m only 7 weeks along, but since this is my second kid, I am already starting to pop a little. I’m sure it’s not so much other people notice, but it makes me think I may start showing in earnest well before the 12-week mark. Since I am now in my late 30’s, I am very aware that I am in more danger of things going badly, so I really don’t want to let the cat out of the bag early. Any advice from other working mom’s who started showing before they were ready to tell?

    Also, I have a friend at work who I like very much, but who tends towards TMI and is very touchy and makes inappropriate comments about bodily functions. When I am out of the pregnancy closet, so to speak, I would love some advice on how to keep her from commenting on things like regular bathroom trips, and all the other super fun stuff that comes along with pregnancy. I’m worried she is going to talk about it non-stop and forget that I also have a job to do. She is a lovely person, and very sensitive (I have witnessed her weeping at work at least a half-dozen times since I started here 3.5 years ago), and I don’t want her to feel like I don’t want to talk to her about this at all, just not all the time, and not in the office about the more personal aspects of what’s happening to my body.

    I’m considering getting one of the those shirts Angela from The Office got for Christmas the year she was pregnant “Ask First, Then Touch.”

    1. rldk*

      I think you’re okay waiting to announce – people tend to understand sensitivity to making it public!
      If you get people directly asking, you can always do turning it back on them – “Hey LSP, are you pregnant?” “Why do you ask?” until you’re comfortable saying yes.

      With oversharer, Alison’s recommended light and friendly tone will probably do wonders for preventing a feeling of being attacked or scolded. After her first TMI comment, you can lightly say something like “I don’t want to bore you all with the ins and outs of pregnant lady life!” or “Oh, I’d rather not go into that kind of detail (in the workplace)”

    2. grace*

      Congratulations!!!

      I don’t have any advice on the first, but on the second — I’m pretty direct, and it sounds like you’re close friends, so why not just say something like, “I’d love to talk with you about so much of this, but I’d prefer not to talk about anything bathroom/body movement/etc. related, and not much at work — while I’m here, can we focus more on work?” and modify as needed for your specific concerns.

      1. Nita*

        Yep. Be direct. People like that don’t get hints, and may well appreciate directness (even to the point of TMI) from others.

    3. Natalie*

      Re: your work friend, since you mention she’s sensitive it kind of sounds like you want a way to keep her from commenting which won’t upset her. Which… I don’t think that’s really possible. I would focus on releasing yourself from any feeling of responsibility for her response to polite boundary setting.

      1. Jules the Third*

        +1 – if she’s that sensitive, you’re facing a challenge.

        But it might be possible to enlist her: since you know she’s got a pattern, and you are friendly, sit down with her and address it directly. Scripts might include ‘I really don’t want this to be discussed around the office much, or to be a focus for co-workers. You know how challenging it is to be seen as professional when you’re a woman; a pregnant woman’s even more challenging. Please help me keep a professional front by not commenting if you notice I’m doing something different or unusual.’ Some comments about how you don’t want other people to see you as ‘LSP, who’s pregnant *again*’ but as ‘LSP who’s doing that project’ might make it see that it’s more about Other People than about her.

        Not ‘pretend I’m not pregnant’ but ‘pretend that pregnancy is no big deal.’

        1. E*

          This is good advice. Enlist the coworker and ask that she help keep work talk focused on your work projects. Doesn’t mean you won’t occasionally show off an ultrasound picture, but that you’d prefer to focus on work most of the time, not your bathroom visits.

    4. anna green*

      Big flowy shirts are in style right now, so maybe pick up some to disguise your growing bump. Also, layers! Cardigans with open fronts and the drapey, scarf, extra front material look (I am so good with fashion terms!!). Summer scarves. That sort of thing, could help people from noticing.

      Ugh. I don’t know what it is about pregnancy that makes people think they get to comment on your life! I used to just laugh it off and change the subject. Or just say “ugh pregnancy sucks, I dont really want to talk about” or something where make it seem you are deflecting because you are sick of it and not because you dont want to talk to her.

      2. k*

        An open wrap cardigans, draped tops, open front jackets, loose flowy shift dresses… I always notice on tv shows when they’re trying to hide an actor’s pregnancy that their wardrobe suddenly adds those items. If you live somewhere where it’s about to be summer, you can blame overbearing AC for your increased use of layering.

    5. Holly Flax*

      Congratulations!! When I was in the showing but not ready for telling phase, I asked my husband every morning if he could tell I was pregnant by what I was wearing and he was very candid and honest which helped. I did find it a bit difficult because as the day goes on I was showing a bit more due to bloating. Cardigans over looser fitting tank top/t shirt shells were my go-t0 outfit choice, and I made sure to wear pants with a looser band so the bloating wasn’t so bad by the end of the day.

      Coworkers can be such a pain! I have had so many preface comments to me by saying “I know you’re probably being bombarded with advice already, but…” I have been pretty successful cutting off uncomfortable conversations by saying “I feel like this is the only thing I talk about right now both at and away from work. Could we talk about anything else??” (funny thing is I did the same thing when people kept asking about my wedding!) Tone is obviously really important with that statement.

    6. soupmonger*

      Your shirt should read “do not touch. At all.”
      I just do not get the pregnancy-touching thing. I mean – FFS, it’s not your body; leave it alone!

    7. Thursday Next*

      Congratulations! Don’t announce until you are comfortable doing so—I think it’s your coworkers’ responsibility to wait for your announcement before saying anything, and so you’d be safe deflecting/outright ignoring (pleasantly and cheerfully) any comments before then. Maybe practice this with your husband?
      Husband (pretending to be coworker): LSP, are you pregnant?
      You: Here’s that TPS report you didn’t ask for!
      Husband: because it looks like you’re showing.
      You: let me know if you have any questions! [smile; walk away]

      Really, people need to get used to not commenting on pregnancy unless explicitly invited to do so!

      1. Thursday Next*

        P.S. I once had the department chair walk into the restroom just as I was throwing up from morning sickness—when we were washing hands, she ignored what she must have heard and just asked how my grading was going, I really, really appreciated that.

    8. Thlayli*

      Baggy clothes is my advice. I was 5 months and showing a lot before anyone noticed with all the baggy and flows clothes I wore

    9. Stanley Nickels*

      Agree on the flowy shirts. Tunics are a good option for summer. Go through your closet first to see what you already have so that it’s not obvious you bought a new wardrobe! You can also keep wearing your normal pants for awhile if you use the hair tie/rubber band trick (loop it around the button, then through the button hole, then back around the button). Hopefully wearing your normal clothes will make it less obvious.

      I hope you have a happy & healthy pregnancy!

  24. Butch Cassidy*

    Fellow goths around? How do you successfully blend your style with the demands of your workplace’s dress code?

    1. rldk*

      There’s a blog for this! Link in my username :)
      Focused more on women/feminine-presenting, but the concepts can probably translate to more masculine-presenting clothing too.

    2. I'm A Little TeaPot*

      Not a goth. But I’ve known some at work. From what I can tell (after having seen a couple in both work and nonwork situations), they just dial it way back. Instead of wearing 10 accessories, they’ll do 2 small ones. Less/no makeup. The more conservative hairstyle option with whatever cut they have. black clothing, but nothing that a non-goth person wouldn’t wear.

      1. Bostonian*

        Yup. I’ve kept a few, small, tasteful pieces of body jewelry. (I wouldn’t classify myself as “goth”, just… kind of a metalhead.) Finding a good pair of boots that’s simultaneously “nice/stylish” but also “edgy” helps. (example: https://www.sudoshoes.com/rabble-black/)

    3. General Ginger*

      When I was female-presenting, I wore a lot of black, occasionally mixed up with some jewel tones. When the McQueen skull scarves were on trend, I wore a lot of scarves with prints like that — Cthulhu-esque squid, mermaids, skulls, though I don’t know if that would fly everywhere. I wore dresses a fair amount, because it was possible to find dresses that were office-appropriate while still having some interesting, off-beat element– interesting old-fashioned-looking buttons, a lace overlay on the collar, exposed zippers, asymmetrical drape.

      My current office has no dress code to speak of, and I mostly dress for comfort these days, especially as I’m transitioning. But a male friend of mine retains a bit of goth to his corporate look –black button downs under his jacket, interesting tie bars or tie pins, ties with the occasional off-beat print which he gets on Etsy.

    4. An Anon Librarian*

      Black. A good rule for conservative offices is one piece that’s unusual. So, like some tasteful memento mori jewelry with a black dress and dark tights, rather than a scull covered dress. I would lighted up the make up and check with your office about hair color. I think one great option is to assume you have to go more conservative at first and see where other people fall.

      I shouldn’t have to say this, but since I have seen some odd things supervising students-no corsets. Yeah, I really did have to explain to a student once that a corset wasn’t appropriate office wear. It was an odd conversation.

  25. Aaaaaaanon.*

    My team is having an issue with a colleague who does some worrisome things in group discussions and we don’t know if it’s a matter of her being socially inept or Tracy Flick.

    She’s been at our organization for over a decade; she used to be in a supervisory role of some sort, had some issues in that role, and then stepped down to become a senior teapot wonk like myself. I worked with her on a much larger team before and while her behaviours were still an issue there, our then-manager had her working mostly individually so that her interaction with the rest of the team was limited.

    We’re now on a team of four with a brand-new manager, and those behaviours are a lot more problematic. Exactly what is she doing?

    -She monologues in meetings, often being very physically demonstrative and speaking loudly and excitedly
    -In her monologues she segues to a new point, closing off natural opportunities to build off something she or someone else said previously
    -She’ll often repeat or paraphrase what the last person said without any verbal/non-verbal indication that she agrees with them or is building off their point
    -She comes across as though she’s stating her opinions as facts, particularly when drawing from her previous and now outdated/irrelevant experience as a supervisor from a time when our organization was much different
    -She always, always tries to get the last word
    -Her responses to what colleagues at her level say come across as dismissive or suggesting that they’re overstepping boundaries (e.g. “Well, that’s for someone more senior to decide”)
    -Her non-verbal language in team meetings gives the vibe that she’s only talking to our manager, rather than engaging with the group
    -She does a lot of nodding and “mmhmm”-ing in meetings that takes up a lot of space in the room

    All together, these behaviours create an unnatural spotlight on what she knows, which makes some people in the room assume that she’s the go-to and no one else has expertise on that topic. It’s particularly tricky for newer people to navigate, because we don’t want to interrupt or look like we’re the ones who aren’t engaging properly. I feel like I can’t use my abilities as a peer of hers because she keeps dismissing or contradicting me in meeting, even though in one-on-one conversations she praises my work.

    It’s not clear that she’s aware that she does these things or that they crowd out other people’s contributions. However, it’s a bit difficult to give her the benefit of the doubt because she’s often highly critical of other people’s work, even work outside of her area of expertise. She also makes comments about other people having egos or being self-promoters if they’re not deferential to her. So, this is weird. Any ideas on what to do?

    1. BuffaLove*

      No advice, but tons of sympathy – my office has a couple of those types, and no one has ever attempted to shut them down as far as I know. I’m interested in what other people have to say.

    2. AnotherJill*

      Who is leading the meeting? They should be setting time limits for discussion and cutting her off if necessary. Letting someone be rude in the name of not being rude to them is generally non-productive.

      1. Aaaaaaanon.*

        Our new manager is leading meetings. I’ve talked with him, in very general terms, about not always feeling like I have an opportunity to contribute, and he’s made a point to give me opportunities to speak up. However, it hasn’t changed her behaviour and he doesn’t actively moderate her or push back against what she’s saying or how she’s saying it. I get that he wants everyone to feel like they can get their point across and that he doesn’t want to seem dismissive towards any team member, but it still doesn’t feel like it’s enough.

        I feel like even though I talk more, I still have the same trouble with getting my points to “stick” because she still follows up my contributions with the same style of comment. The effect is the same whether she speaks first or last.

        1. AnotherJill*

          Yeah, without your manager leading the meetings effectively, it really makes it tough. Maybe once your manager is not so new it will be easier to be more direct about the situation.

          1. Aaaaaaanon.*

            I’ve talked to him a bit more about the challenges I’ve faced in trying to get her buy-in for my work, particularly in situations where it probably shouldn’t matter. I really hate asking my new boss to do this kind of emotional labour….hopefully it doesn’t tank my career here.

    3. mrs_helm*

      Sounds like she thinks she should be manager: Runs meetings, has all the answers, won’t let you speak in meetings but wants to give you feedback about how good a worker bee you are.

      Since she’s already been taken down a notch in the org, and it didn’t make her humble, probably nothing will. But if your new manager is open to it, suggest that manager tell her to give other people a chance to talk. Maybe they can frame it as a ‘good leadership’ move – which it actually is.

    4. Argh!*

      Go ahead and interrupt! Get the floor by saying “That’s a great point, and also…” and end your point by saying “What do you think, Cassandra?” Don’t give Not-Cassandra a chance to butt in. If she tries, say “I’m not finished making my point…” or “We heard you out, now it’s my turn.” (Even better — conspire with a coworker or two to tag-team to keep the floor)

      Alternatively, you could go to her or your manager one-on-one, but it sounds like everyone is behaving sheepishly, which gives her tacit permission to do this. Since she’s been demoted and most likely talked to already, I can’t imagine subtlety will have any effect.

    5. Gatomon*

      I had a very similar coworker on a team I used to be on. In the short term, I was promoted out, but long-term the behavior will continue until it is curbed. I really think your manager really has to be the one to dial this person back. Since these types of people feel/act like they have more authority than they do, it takes someone with higher authority to end it. As a peer, you probably won’t be successful if you don’t have visible management backing. If your manager doesn’t have the spine or awareness to stop this person, it may be something you have to accept, or not accept (i.e. move on).

      What happened with my coworker was a new manager with more experience in managing and in that type of department was hired on. The previous manager was new to everything and didn’t have the experience to stop this guy from usurping their authority. New manager saw it right away and started reigning it in immediately, but the final kicker was this guy vocally signaling he was Not On Board on a high-stakes project that the board/VPs were following closely. Management closed ranks and threatened to pull him off the project if he didn’t cut it out — they didn’t want his negativity floating up to the VPs/board. I think this finally got through to him.

    6. Thlayli*

      It sounds like she’s an external processor – she thinks aloud. It sounds like a pretty extreme version. No advice but maybe google how to deal with external processors.

      1. Aaaaaaanon.*

        This is an interesting perspective – being an external processor might help to explain why she isn’t framing her points in an effective way.

        1. Thlayli*

          That’s what makes me think she’s thinking aloud – I do this naturally. Think through things by talking it over. I had to learn that it’s not a good idea to do this in a meeting, but it sounds like she has not learned this.

  26. AK*

    I’m in an interesting situation that I feel silly even spending time thinking about.

    I recently transferred offices, and for some reason I’m having a hard time balancing my desire to be a part of the group with the one not to rock the boat and insert myself too forcefully into existing routines. I’m friendly with the entire team and had previously spent a lot of time here, so I’m not exactly the new kid. As such, there’s no extra attention paid to making sure I’m included in things like going out to lunch or joining a happy hour like there might be with a new hire. But I sit *just* far enough away from most of the team that I also don’t usually overhear plans being made until everyone’s getting up to leave. I don’t want to be annoying and I’ve already tried a few “hey what’s the plan for today?” IMs and walk bys with a little success, but I have to admit that I’m a little more hurt than I should be when I look up from an email at 12:30 and see the entire team has already left.

    I’m sure this is all just a weird transition and within a few weeks we’ll have all figured things out, it’s just one of those weird things that I’m not entirely comfortable having a conversation about with many people but needed to get out. AAM is my safe space :)

    Happy Friday!

    1. Luna*

      That is frustrating! It’s such a hard balance to strike. I would keep up what you’re doing re: asking them what the plans are, hopefully after more time it will work itself out. The only other suggestion I have is to initiate a group lunch or happy hour yourself if you’re comfortable doing that.

    2. Green Goose*

      It’ll take some time, and I know how you feel. I’ve been at my current company for over three years but the first year and a half I was on the Teapot Regional team and we were so, so close. We all ate together everyday and never talked about work in our free time. I viewed them more as friends than coworkers. I really liked everyone on that team (minus my direct supervisor) and I was a bit heartbroken when the org said our team would be reorged with some of us staying at Teapot Regional and some of us going to Teapot HQ.

      I went to Teapot HQ. I had always been friendly with people at Teapot HQ but when I started working there fulltime it was strange and lonely. I really missed my old team (because of the reorg, the two women I was closest with quit) and the people I was hoping would be my new friends at HQ were nice but already had their own thing going on. I had transferred about a month before my birthday, and on my actual birthday the Teapot HQ people that I liked all went out for lunch without inviting me and I just sat at my desk trying hard but unsuccessfully to not feel hurt.

      However, that was about a year and a half ago, and things have changed a lot. I think my “meh” phase was about three months and then I just felt normal being at HQ. I realized I would have new relationships, different from my Regional team, and got to know more people in the office. I really like all the people that I work with. Also, since there can be a lot of turnover, I feel less devastated when people leave now, so having less close relationships while liking everyone has been good for me.

      Good luck, and hopefully the weird phase goes by quickly for you!

    3. I See Real People*

      When I started this job, I spent some time doing my own lunch thing. The in-crowd invited me after a few months to lunches out with the “team”. This went on pleasantly for a few months and then one day they started planning around me and not inviting me anymore. I have no idea why, but I’ve learned not to worry about it. It’s just a job with people I probably won’t keep in touch with when I move on from here. I focus on working from 8-5 and then enjoying the lovely life I have at home.

    4. Mirth & Merry*

      Is there one person who you are a little closer to in the office? Maybe bring it up to them and enlist their help. And seconding Luna suggestion! Initiate something and see what happens. I moved offices and it took a few months and a couple included/not included iterations before things settled.

  27. A Slow Burn*

    How do you balance being a professional with not wanting to be an enabler when leaving a dysfunctional job?
    Background: I was part of a team of 5 reporting to one director. Between February and April, 4 of the 5 left, and the remaining employee is a new mom who considers the dysfunction the price to pay for good benefits and other flexibility. But all of the departures were specifically due to the director and her lack of management and even knowledge of what her reports did. This type mass exodus happened once before, two years ago, because of the same director.
    Now, a temp (the second one since I left!) is desperately trying to cover the 4 empty positions and keeps emailing me with questions that the director should be able to answer when my extensive documentation can’t. I’ve tried waiting to answer and re-directing him back to the docs or the director, but it persists. I’m at about 15 emails in three weeks.
    I feel bad for him because so many of his questions are about functions that the director consistently didn’t value or acknowledge until they weren’t done, but I also really want the organization to realize that the director is the problem. How do I balance my professional obligation with my resentment of the director’s lack of knowledge & incompetence?

    1. You don't know me*

      Are you still with the same company? if not then I fell like your professional obligation has been met and you are off the hook. You left extensive documentation and have thus far been responsive to inquires. I’d stop responding or let the temp know this is the last week you can help out and then they are on their own.

      If you are still with the same company its a little trickier and you may have to put up with it a little longer. Maybe instead of answering the questions directly you could reply with “that information should be in the teapot design section of the manual I left.”

      I feel bad for the temp that has to deal with this but maybe s/he will leave too and the director will finally have to step up.

    2. Jillociraptor*

      I don’t think you have any professional obligation here. In fact, I might consider you obligated to do the opposite and stop creating the conditions that allow the director’s choices to avoid consequences.

      1. A Slow Burn*

        This is exactly what I needed to hear. It’s the typical nonprofit situation – I really care about the mission and it pains me to do anything that will actively detract from its ability to do its great work, but the Director is such a problem that the org as a whole will always be limping until they replace her.

        1. AMPG*

          Honestly, this is the type of thing I would consider bringing to the Board’s attention, if you’re no longer with this non-profit. Not saying it will definitely make a difference, because situations like this generally happen due to a lack of oversight in the first place, but you could always try.

        2. Jillociraptor*

          Good luck! As a nonprofiteer myself I definitely relate to how hard that is!

    3. Observer*

      Unless you are still with the company in another role, your only obligation here is to not be rude. Period.

      Here is the thing, though. Normally I would say that if you tell the person that you cannot answer any more questions and then STOP ANSWERING QUESTIONS, the company will figure out what’s happening pretty soon. However, the fact that this is the SECOND mass exodus in two years should have been enough to signal to the company that this director is the problem. Which means that there is really not much you can do to bring the company to its senses. Something will have to blow up for them to figure it out, if they have not figured it out yet.\

  28. Tattoos?*

    Tattoos in the workplace: Are they professional?

    I’m thinking about getting my first tattoo; it’d be very small and just above my ankle bone. I could easily cover it with slacks. But from time to time, I like to wear knee-length skirts, and then it would obviously show. Cool or uncool? I’d love to hear your experiences with navigating tattoos in the workplace.

    FWIW, I’m currently in higher ed. I’ve taught at a small community college for seven years, am going back for a PhD starting this fall, and hope to wind up in higher ed again when I’m done (though of course, nothing’s certain in higher ed these days, and I may wind up somewhere else).

    1. Buffy*

      I work in higher ed and I have a smallish tattoo on my wrist. I usually cover it up with a watch, but I know it’s been seen before. No one seems to have batted an eye! I’m sure it depends on the overall culture of your workplace, but I’d think a small tattoo on your ankle wouldn’t be an issue.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I think as a society in general we are becoming more accepting of tattoos, but this will largely depend on your industry and geographical location.

      1. Red Reader*

        And on your individual workplace even. My previous hospital’s tattoo rule was “visible tattoos must be non-offensive.” My current hospital’s rule was “no visible tattoos, full stop,” but they just switched to “visible tattoos must be non-offensive” effective April 1. Both are large academic hospital groups.

    3. Ignatius Reilly*

      I was in higher ed for a while as an instructor, and tattoos were totally fine. Some people had full sleeves. For context, though, I was in the English Department of a large state university, so obviously this might vary depending on the department, whether the school is affiliated with a certain religion, etc.

      I work in a law firm now, which is arguably more traditional than higher ed when it comes to dress code, and at least where I work I have two wrist tattoos and they’ve never been a problem.

    4. Getting Lit*

      I’m working on my Literature PhD right now. I have several visible tattoos and it’s never been a problem to get jobs adjuncting or as a Visiting Instructor. I’ve also had several tenured professors who had reasonably visible tattoos. I think content matters, too? My most visible is just a cluster of roses on my forearm. If it was something violent, controversial, etc., it might be a different story. Or if it was a neck or hand tattoo. Granted I am in the humanities where we might be more neutral to this stuff than the STEM fields, but that’s a blind assumption I’m making with absolutely no evidence to back it up and I will happily accept my wrongness if others disagree.

    5. anonny*

      I know there are definitely industries where tattoos aren’t yet accepted (or may never be) but higher ed doesn’t seem to be one of them. You have to think about what your trajectory could be after higher ed, based on your education. If you moved out of higher ed, would you end up working at a really conservative firm, banking or law or something, or a conservative small business? If not, it may just always be a non-issue for you, especially due to the size and placement you’re talking about. I work in tech/marketing and have visible tattoos on my wrists, back of neck, and chest/shoulders (plus others that aren’t visible in regular clothes) and it’s just normal life. I’ve had people say to me, what if you changed jobs, and my answer is, at this point in my career, I have a choice about what industries I work in, and any one that isn’t ok with a flower on my forearm or a bird poking out of a crew neck shirt isn’t one I’d likely find myself trying to move into. I’ve also had my nose pierced for 21 years. I don’t dress crazy – I’m always in jeans or leggings or fitted dress pants, boots or flats, and usually wear a fitted tee with cardigan or casual button down shirt (I’m basically Gap & Talbots personified, plus tattoos/nose ring). And I’m not looked at like I’m wild or different, I just have tattoos. Like I’m not wearing black lipstick and a leather jacket and smoking cigarettes leaning against my motorcycle or anything. ;)

      In my world, everyone is indifferent to tattoos (unless someone is telling you they like them). There’s no negative consequences and no negative attitude. I get that some people have really different careers/workplaces, but in a lot of places, having tattoos vs not having tattoos is really like having brown hair vs having blonde hair. No big deal.

    6. bumbletea*

      Depends on the company! I work in tech, but my last company wouldn’t let tattoos show (I have one on my back that shows with anything sleeve-less or with really short sleeves that are loose). Definitely not the industry norm for tech! But it sounds like your tattoo would be in a place where most people won’t notice. I had a coworker who had an ankle tattoo, and it took me a year to realize it. I don’t think the CEO ever did.

    7. LibraryRaptor*

      I’m going to echo everyone saying “it depends on your institution.” When I was at a Catholic university? Heck no. Every other university setting I’ve been in? They’ve been a non-issue.

    8. Moonbeam Malone*

      fwiw what you’re describing sounds like it would be pretty easy to cover with makeup if needed (and assuming you aren’t allergic.)

    9. EddieSherbert*

      I agree it depends on your company :) and suggest you observe for a couple weeks – does anyone else seem to have visible tattoos? If you have a good relationship with your manager (or someone else higher up), maybe ask their opinion.

      I also think it depends on WHAT the tattoo is – not just the obvious “is it offensive” but is it religious, connected to a hot-button issue, if someone is not familiar with [thing tattooed on you] could they misunderstand it as something offensive?

      And, ultimately, I think you have to be okay with covering it up. Policies can change, you might get another job, etc… and it might end up having to be covered (even if it can be visible now).

    10. Tmarie*

      I have a 3″ rose on the inside of my left ankle, and a 4″ array of flowers all the way around my right ankle, and I wear capris from May-September. 75% of the people I work with, in a Finance department have tattoos. Oh I also have a friend tattoo on my inner right wrist.

      I’m an accountant, but my office definitely veers to casual.

    11. Higher Ed Database Dork*

      I think they are becoming more acceptable, and I love that. I plan on getting full sleeves at some point. Especially for most higher ed – I see lots of tattooed people from various schools at conferences I attend, and I have a large floral on my left arm that is visible, and no one bats an eye. Of course I’d always want to be sure I could cover it if necessary, like if it’s a business formal meeting or something, but what you describe sounds pretty harmless and easily covered.

      Now this is MOST higher ed – the previous school I worked at was a smaller private school that was obsessed with appearances and very toxic. Absolutely no visible tattoos, and I bet they would have banned invisible ones as well if they could, because they didn’t consider them “proper”. That place was run like a dictatorship and had a lot of unhealthy attitudes. So you’d hopefully be able to screen for those places before you take a job, but I think you are okay for most places.

    12. periwinkle*

      Corporate HR for a major employer in the greater Seattle area… I have one tiny tattoo that is always visible (ring finger), two forearm tattoos (each about 1.5″ square) visible if I’m not wearing long sleeves, and one only visible if I’m wearing short sleeves (which I don’t do at work).

      No one seems to care. My grand boss certainly doesn’t, since he went and got his own large forearm tattoo last year. I love the Pacific Northwest.

      1. Kj*

        Same. Seattle here and visible tattoos are perfectly acceptable, on everyone from receptionist to CEO of most businesses.

    13. Marvel*

      My experience in higher ed says that’s probably totally fine, though it may depend on school and field! My school tilts slightly more conservative overall, but I’m in the theatre department, so…

    14. Former Retail Manager*

      I really think that you will be fine with what you’re planning to get, but like all the others said, I suppose it ultimately depends on your work culture. Higher ed seems pretty accommodating where I live (the very conservative South) and I’ve had a few professors over the years that had tattoos. No full sleeves or anything, but some noticeable stuff on the wrists, ankles, neck and upper back. And if all else fails, you can always buy some Dermacol on Amazon and cover it up. That stuff is amazing!

    15. Kathy*

      I have a pretty big (around 5″ square) tattoo of a direwolf on my forearm and the only comments I’ve gotten on it are about how much people like it. I actually was talking about it with the VP of the company recently and we immediately got into an animated discussion about Game of Thrones. So yeah, I think that we as a society are becoming more accepting of tattoos but I also think that it depends on the institution.

    16. anycat*

      i’m in a corporate office and i have a tattoo above my ankle. there’s a few others who have tattoos that show, and i also have my nose pierced. every place i’ve worked my tattoos and piercings haven’t been an issue – but i’m also located in the bay area so we are a bit liberal.

      one thing to think about – you will need to let it properly heal so don’t cover it up too tightly after you get it done. it will need to breathe. :)

  29. not really a lurker anymore*

    My job has been reclassified! 7% retention raise. I’m now salary but since my OT worked out to about 15-20 a year, I can deal with this. And they are buying out my comptime bank of almost 60 hours. Sadly, that’s at the old rate and not the new rate.

    1. Sparkly Librarian*

      Hey, that’s nice! I hit my annual pay step increase at the same time as a union-negotiated raise took effect. (It’s calculated retroactively, too, so that’ll mean a bonus check.) I think the raise is going into savings, which is boring but still satisfying. Have plans for yours?

  30. DecorativeCacti*

    Does anyone have any recommendations on where to find interview worthy clothes on a budget? And plus sized?

    I have a nice interview outfit, but I’m in the process of losing weight and am down a dress size. My nice pants still look decent but my jacket makes me look like I’m a child wearing Grown Up clothes. I want to have something on hand but don’t want to spend a ton of money because I fully intend to go down a few more sizes.

    1. Manders*

      Is tailoring an option? That might be cheaper than buying a series of new suits.

      1. Cotton Headed Ninny Muggins*

        I second Manders on tailoring. Also, a site that occasionally has some business-y gems is called Full Beauty. They have lots of uber-matronly clothes, but they do carry some nicer work-type pieces if you have some time to dig around on the site. I’ve purchased my basic work pants and some trendier work cardigans from them, and the prices are decent. I have seen some nice blazers and suits on the site as well, but I have not purchased these type of items, so I can’t vouch, but the piece I have are good quality and fit me well.

        1. General Ginger*

          Thirding this. Also maybe consider doing a sheath dress with a blazer rather than trousers/blouse, as IMHO, dresses tend to be more forgiving of size fluctuations.

      1. mrs_helm*

        +1
        Shop around until you find one that has a good stock of professional and Plus size. Not all of them do, and you might need to try surrounding areas. But once you find one! :)

      2. many bells down*

        Especially if you’ve got a high-rent neighborhood near you, go to the nearest thrift store to that. The stuff people drop off in my old neighborhood is amazing. I got a lambswool/cashmere overcoat there last winter for $15.

    3. LiterallyPapyrus*

      I buy & sell clothes on Poshmark regularly. Torrid was my go-to for all clothes, professional and otherwise. You can search for brands you like or by category and I’ve never had a bad experience there. (and if for some reason you do have a bad experience Poshmark pretty well protects the buyer in those situations).

      I feel you on losing weight–I lost 110+ pounds over the last year and i’ve had to re-buy my entire wardrobe several times. It’s great, but also SUPER ANNOYING to keep buying the same pair of dress pants in 4 different sizes.

    4. Combinatorialist*

      Have you considered Gwynnie Bee? It’s plus sized clothes rental which is great for when you are changing size. My mom used it for a long while — renting dresses for special occasions and mostly work clothes. If you are on a super tight budget, its probably not affordable, but it is certainly cheaper than buying lots of clothes you aren’t going to wear for long.

      1. Environmental Compliance*

        I got almost all of my business wear from ThredUp when we had moved across 3 states and didn’t have a ton of money for me to go buy a whole new wardrobe. I’ve also never had something arrive in less than like-new condition. Highly recommend ThredUp!

        (My workplace now is pretty casual, quite a few people like to wear t-shirts/jeans, but I like to wear polos. I can usually get a handful of nice, athletic-fabric polo shirts for like $5-10 a pop.)

      2. Former Retail Manager*

        Seconding both of these suggestions and I shop both regularly. However, Eloquii really isn’t affordable, in my opinion, even with the frequent 40% sales. Also, if you have nice trousers, you don’t necessarily have to wear a suit jacket. You could do a nice blouse or shell with a heavier weight cardigan and some simple, classy accessories to jazz it up. I am currently plus, but was straight size for a very long time. Now that I’m plus size, I find that it’s very hard to find any suit jacket that really fits me right, so I have opted for the aforementioned option. I find that this is especially true for women whose weight isn’t evenly distributed or they have a particular trouble spot (large arms, large bust, etc.) Try searching Pinterest for plus size professional outfits and see if you can get some inspiration there that doesn’t involve a straight jacket…I mean suit jacket. :)

    6. CS Rep By Day, Writer By Night*

      ThredUP has plus sized clothing, and I’ve gotten so many amazing items from them. I’m currently rocking a pair of Vince Camuto heels that I scored for $27.

    7. OP#4*

      Lands’ End has professional suiting basics, including in plus sizes, and has an amazing return policy. They also have good coupon codes very often if you sign up for emails. You could buy a basic suit in your current size and if you don’t wear it before you drop a size, return it/exchange it for the next size down. I have returned things there (unworn) at least a year later. They also have similar things in straight/plus sizes so if you find yourself needing a smaller (straight) sized jacket and plus sized pants for a suit, you can do that and still have it be a cohesive suit.

    8. the_scientist*

      If you live in a place where clothing rental/subscription services are an option, that might be a more affordable choice than buying transitionally-sized items. There are definitely services that offer professionally-appropriate dresses, blazers, etc. (I follow the blog of a lawyer who uses them pretty regularly, but I unfortunately don’t remember the name of it). If you have a couple of dresses that are appropriate, you can tailor a blazer or two or scour thrift stores to tide you over!

      I have to go to four weddings this year (plus I’m also getting married) and I am going to be using a rental service so I don’t have to buy many new outfits!

    9. Xarcady*

      Jessica London has some suiting separates. Also try Land’s End–either the sale section or sometimes they have 30 to 40% off coupons on the site.

      And Macy’s. It’s a mixed bag, but they have a 30% off coupon right now. Add that to something that’s on sale, and you can sometimes get good buys. Just checked and they have several jackets in the $50-$60 range, with the sale and coupon.

    10. k.k*

      Have you tired eshakti.com? They do custom sizing to your measurements. In addition to size, you can pick custom options like changing the skirt length, adding or changing sleeves, pockets to dresses, etc. Some optionf are free and others are add on costs. How affordable it is depends on your definition of budget friendly. For example, if I remember right a simple sheath or A line dress would be around $55, pencil skirt around $40, etc. For me that’s a little pricey, but it’s like having a tailor built in. And if you stick with basics, they’ll be versatile so hopefully you can get good use out of it while it still fits.

    11. ABK*

      I don’t know about plus sizes, but I”ve had really good luck with buying suit parts separately, like matching a nice pair of slack with a generic blouse and generic blazer that all may have come from different stores/brands. Then dress it up with a necklace or scarf or nice shoes, conservative colors, etc.

    12. Piano Girl*

      I have alot of work clothes from DressBarn, Talbots, and even something from J. Jill.

    13. Kuododi*

      I use a website called Woman Within. The prices are excellent and they have a wide selection of styles and sizes. One caveat…. I have not shopped for “serious suits” in a while for various reasons. I don’t know if WW would have the exact stuff you are looking for, but the prices are so good that IMO it would be worth the time to see about finding good separates you could put together for the look you need. Best wishes!!!

  31. Afiendishthingy*

    Share your funny/frustrating stories of your bossy, control-obsessed coworkers.

    My coworker: (talk talk talk talk talk)
    Me: “Yeah, I think that — ”
    My coworker : “SHHH SHH SHH sorry i really need to focus right now”

    1. Bea W*

      I really want to write about the recent hyphen scandal at my office, but my brain just can’t process. The wound is too fresh!

    2. LDP*

      I got into a fight with an old coworker about efficiency. We had ordered several hundred mini disco balls for an event and were trying to organize the huge boxes they all came in until we needed them. She got upset with me for starting another row when we could have put more on top, and argued with me that it was “more efficient that way”. I had to remind her that I (and our boss) are a good 5 inches shorter than her and couldn’t reach the boxes on top if they were stacked that high, and it would be less efficient if we had to go find a ladder and/or someone taller to reach them for us. No idea why, but I decided that was the hill to die on with that coworker. (She’s the type who thinks the way she does *everything* is the best and most efficient.) It all ended well, and we were able to brainstorm and collaborate really well after that. But man, were there some growing pains with us at first!

    3. Green Goose*

      I had forgotten about this but found an old email I had written a friend about my former boss.
      B/G: Former boss was a control freak. Our organization has vital information in random places, and not always intuitive places… I might need to check my email, Box, Excel, Google Sheets, old slideshows to find something at times.
      Incident: I had looked in all the above mentioned places trying to find a figure from our previous year, and as a last resort I asked my boss where I could find it. He knew where it was but here was his response:

      It is unacceptable that you don’t know where this information is and I want to report from you by the end of the day telling me where this information is and what steps you took to find it.

      1. Close Bracket*

        In light of a recent letter and the responses to it regarding asking people how to do something versus googling it or whatever, I find this absolutely hysterical. Clearly your boss is firmly on the side of “If you ask, you are a bad person, and you should feel bad about yourself.”

        1. The New Wanderer*

          I’m rewatching Parks and Rec and I just automatically heard that line in Ron Swanson’s voice. :-)

    4. bookends*

      We moved into a new office two years ago, in a building with a bunch of other non-profits. Part of our office is in one large suite with cubicle areas and a conference room, and then we have some individual offices in a hallway where other orgs also have some offices (think we have #400a, 400b, and others have 400c, 400d, etc).

      When we first moved we all changed our email signatures to the address of the large suite because it’s where the majority of staff is and where our mail slot is located. She insisted on using the general number of the other offices (just 400, no a/b/etc.) for “security reasons.” I didn’t fight it because she’s the kind of person you pick your battles with.

      Ever since then, we’re constantly confusing the post office and getting everyone else’s mail. A few weeks ago, she scolded me for walking the other orgs’ mail down to them, and said it’s the post office’s fault for “assigning us this address when we moved in.”

    5. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

      Potstirrer: This new task is an outrage we can’t achieve our business goals. DT set up a meeting.
      Naieve DT: Sure! Sets up meeting.
      Potstirrer: OK so we all agree item X has to go and it’s not achieving desired effects blah blah blah. DT please craft an email for the group and CC us all and send to manager.
      Naieve DT: OK!
      Naieve DT: Emails management our discussion.
      Potstirrer: I completely disagree with DT and am appalled that she would claim to speak for me. I find the new task to be important because of A, B, C and I for one am not afraid of some hard work to get this done.
      Other coworkers: too scarred to speak up? I dunno they said nothing while management dropped the lance on me with the power of thor. Only time I ever tried going to management “as a group”

    6. whistle*

      We print a lot at my company (for legitimate reasons), and one of the printers is across the hall from my office. One of my coworkers (you know, *that* one) will regularly walk by and mutter disapprovingly “that’s a lot of toner”.
      I have stopped just short of asking her if toner costs are taken out of her paycheck.

  32. Manders*

    People who work with freelancers, how do you strike a healthy balance between being a good client and putting the needs of your own company first? I offered a small writing gig to someone I’m on friendly terms with outside of work, and I tried my best to make sure she knew it would probably not be a long-term deal, but from the way she’s been talking it sounds like she’s planning to quit her day job and rely on me for the bulk of her income.

    I’ve already told her that things change fast here, that the work might end at any time, and that she should make sure she has other sources of income besides the work I’m sending her. I’ve encouraged her to apply to other freelance gigs. Have I done my due diligence here? I’d feel really guilty if I cut off her primary source of income with no warning, but we’re a really small startup and we’re moving fast, so we honestly don’t have the resources to give busy work to people and I don’t always know month to month whether we’ll decide to change the work we’re doing.

    1. Danielle*

      I would be more candid with her, saying something like: “I don’t want you to put all your eggs in one basket because this isn’t a long term opportunity. There’s a lot of work now but I wouldn’t want you to jeopardize your livelihood in the event we go another direction or the work just stops coming in due to business needs.” And then leave it at that.

      1. AMPG*

        Yes, if you’ve said the above or its equivalent to her, then you’ve fulfilled any obligation you had. Her decision after that point are hers to own.

      2. Manders*

        Hah, yes, I already used the “eggs in one basket” line almost exactly, and I also told her that it wasn’t a good idea to make this her sole source of income. I also talked to her a little about how fast our work changes and how I can’t always predict what’s going to happen a few months out, and that the program might not last forever. I guess I’ve done what I can, I’m just feeling nervous because the way she’s talking about this gig in our writer’s group seems like she’s really depending on it.

    2. Elizabeth West*

      Since she’s a friend, I think the next time she says something you need to be direct about it. “Suzanne, this is a finite project and it will probably end after X period because we’re moving so fast. I’m concerned that you seem to be dependent on this for your income.” Put the ball in her court–“What will you do when this project is over?” Seriously, if she’s going to freelance, she needs to be aware that gigs can and do end abruptly and she needs to have more than one iron in the fire.

      1. Manders*

        The issue is that it doesn’t have a firm end date–maybe it’ll keep going for a year, maybe we’ll phase it out in a month. It’s really not supposed to be someone’s full-time job, but a small gig for a freelancer with their fingers in many pies.

        I’ve tried to let her know that things change fast and I can’t guarantee the work will continue, but I think she’s way too starry-eyed about this. It’s a very small line item in our company’s budget but it’s more than she was making at her (admittedly low-paying, crappy) day job she’s quitting.

    3. Becky*

      I feel like you’ve done your due diligence in communicating with her. You have warned her, if she isn’t listening that’s on her. If she pushes back when you don’t have work then simply reply with something along the lines of “We were pleased with the work you did for us and will definitely keep you in mind for future projects. We’d be happy to provide you with a reference or recommend you for work with others in the industry.” (If that’s what it is called in freelance world). This is of course, only if her work quality merits it.

      Also make sure the contract or paperwork or whatever is super clear about the duration/parameters of the project and the pay for that.

      1. Manders*

        The problem is that we really don’t know the duration of the project. It’s maybe 3-6 hours of work per week, it’s not supposed to be someone’s full-time gig.

        I did try to transfer her to a project run by my colleague that has steadier work, but to be honest, she didn’t do a very good job on her trial assignment and he didn’t want to keep working with her.

    4. LilySparrow*

      As a freelancer, it seems like you’ve been very clear. I was going to say that you could make sure the workload and deadlines are reasonable enough that she has the opportunity to manage her business – I mean, if you were demanding 80 solid hours’ worth of work product delivered every week, she would have to put all her eggs in one basket just to keep up.

      But I see in one of your updates that it’s only 3-6 hours of work per week, so that’s certainly not the issue.

      I have a long-term relationship with a client who has sporadic projects, and one thing that is helpful for my planning is their purchase-order system. My client contact will approximate how much work she’ll need in the near-term (say, the next three months) and then corporate will approve a P.O. up to that amount. The actual assignments vary widely in scope and aren’t assigned on a specific schedule, but I have a general framework to plan around with other gigs. And if the P.O. doesn’t all get used up in that timeframe, it just stays open. So maybe you could ask for better communication within your organization about what projects are really slated/approved in the near term, and pass that on to her? It might not be feasible in your situation, but it’s just something I find useful.

      Other than that, unless you’re going to volunteer to be her mentor and teach her how to manage a small business responsibly, I’m not sure what else you could do here.

      1. Manders*

        Ah, that’s a really cool system! I don’t think it’s something I could do right now (it’s seriously a tiny company, only 3 full time employees managing a whole bunch of freelancers who get weekly assignments), but it’s something I’ll keep in mind as the business grows.

        To be honest, I think she saw our (honestly pretty standard) rate per word and got a little overwhelmed because many of the writers in the group where we met will work for peanuts. A lot of them are working for pretty awful clients and I want to do my best to be a model of how a good client should behave.

        1. LilySparrow*

          She’s new at freelancing, isn’t she? The “I’m set for life” pipe dream is quite common. It’s just wishful thinking, because pitching and finding clients sucks.

          I think we’ve all done it at some point. The difference is, the client usually can’t hear us do it. Let her talk it out and pretend it’s about some other company.

          1. Manders*

            Yep, you nailed it, this is her first time freelancing. I think you’re right–I’ve said my piece, and I’ll cheer her on if she mentions looking for other clients.

  33. hermit crab*

    I have a phone screen scheduled for next Tuesday! I am 32 and have been working at the same company for just shy of 10 years, so the last time I did one of these, I was a recent grad in the midst of the recession who was willing to take anything (luckily it worked out pretty well and I’ve been here ever since).

    This time around, I am not 100% sure that I want this particular job (or any new job at all) – what are your recommendations for approaching this with an open-minded, confident attitude? What questions are useful for mid-level candidates to ask at the phone screen stage?

    1. AnotherJill*

      I tend to think of phone screenings as low value to the candidate, as its tough to get a feel for an entire workplace when you are on the phone with one or two individuals.

      What are the things that are most important for you in a workplace? I would do as much research about the company as possible and try to figure out what my deal breakers would be and try to ask things in that direction.

    2. SpaceNovice*

      What kind of phone screening is it? You can look up common questions at that stage of the phone interview. Look at what they value in the job listing and see what stories about previous jobs you can tie to them. Definitely make sure you review what you did and some of the 101 knowledge. If this is an HR phone screen, it’s to make sure you’re not crazy/awful. If it’s a more technical screen, it’s to make sure you’re not a complete idiot. You might want to review some behavioral questions and also come up with the reason why you’re applying. And ask questions! Also, know the answer to what you’re looking for and why you might want to leave your current place.

    3. lopsided*

      Be open-minded! You are trying to find out more to see if it would be a good fit. Figure out the reasons you’re leaving and the things you’ll need to know before you invest more time. For instance, I am leaving because I don’t want to be the only technical person in the department anymore. In my phone screens, I asked about organizational structure and how the technical team works and collaborates. One place I wasn’t sure about didn’t have a team of peers, and I was very honest with them that that was a dealbreaker for me, and graciously bowed out.

    4. Windchime*

      In my (somewhat limited) experience, phone screens are really just to see whether or not you can communicate and have a decent personality. When I have been on the employer side of the screen, I’m usually just trying to get a feel for whether or not the person has the general experience we need, has a clear communication style, and seems like they would be someone I would like to work with.

      When I’ve been on the employee side, I treat much the same way. Do I want to work for these people on the other side of the phone? Do they seem like reasonable people with reasonable questions? I try to tailor my questions to the conversation, but if there are any items that would be absolute deal-breakers for you, then I would bring them up in the phone screen to see whether or not it even makes sense to move forward to the next step.

  34. Anonanonanon*

    How do you know when you’re not a good culture fit? And when does that mean you should leave a job?

    I’m really introverted, I concentrate on analysis & reporting in my career, and I don’t have much interest in creating deep bonds between my colleagues (I have enough close friends in my private life). I work in social services, which makes me the odd man out all the time; I’m surrounded by counselors, social workers and other “people” people who loudly proclaim their fear of math and research. Which is ok! That’s why I’m here!

    The problem is, even though I really value what our non-profit company does, I’m not sure my values fit the values of my colleagues. Our hiring strategy lately has been pretty outwardly anti-introverts (higher ups have talked disdainfully about highly skilled tech professionals who just want to play be on computers all day), and I know that my coworkers side-eye me for trying to limit my customer interaction as much as possible. (For example, I’m sometimes asked to be backup on phones when we’re short-staffed, and I’m really bad at it in their view: I take a message and move on, and don’t try to dig deeper or build a relationship.) I don’t mind working with people, particularly internal customers, but I’m not cut out for too much group work or managing people.

    I feel like I’m tolerated, but only because I have skills/knowledge that they don’t, and they’re unwilling or unable to learn. I’m pushed to do things I don’t want to do (from taking on committee leadership to being more emotionally vulnerable with my colleagues), and the social workers around me think they’re pushing me to grow, when really I think they’re pushing me to be something I’m not.

    Do techies just not belong in social services?

    1. foot in mouth*

      Huh, I’m in reporting and analysis myself and often feel the odd one out because I’m the only one in my office doing this – but I’m in a finance office so we’re all pretty introverty. I’d really like to move on and in my next career I’d really like to not be the only one on my team doing what I do, I feel it’s limiting my growth, having no immediate colleagues to learn from (though there are certainly others in my org who do what I do, we don’t have any business reason to interact).

      All that’s background to say, I think it’s totally inappropriate for them to push you to do phones etc. that’s ridiculous and not a good use of your skills.

      1. Anonanonanon*

        Totally agree! I’m usually the only person in my role, and it makes it really hard to grow. It actually makes it more difficult here, because I’m trying to work on my own skills, and they want to push me into this really exhausting place all the time instead.

    2. Sunshine Brite*

      Social worker here. Introverted and would be out of there due to boundary pushing coworkers. It sounds like there’s a weird culture at that nonprofit and doesn’t honor the various roles that make up a multidisciplinary team.

      2. Happy Lurker*

        Was coming here to say something similar. Close family member is a social worker. It is a difficult field for an extrovert, far worse for an introvert.

        Just keep doing your thing, keep your eyes and ears open and maybe your dream job will come on by.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      As gently as possible, it sounds like they think you only tolerate them, also. In other words, they are mirroring back what they think you are doing.

      The thing is that these stalemates happen. In order to get out of the stalemate someone has to move. Unfortunately, it boils down to the person who states “I think there is a problem here” and that person gets the advice “change what you are doing and see if they change also”.
      People react to what they perceive is happening. Of course, many times people have the wrong perception.

      My husband was a super geeky guy. To the point where he intimidated people, he was just smart. We talked about this. He landed on a solution of telling rather non-personal stories that had some human interest to them. Yeah, he talked about the cute thing the dog or cat did today. Or he mentioned how nice the trees looked this spring. He also decided to learn at least one thing about each person around him. Joe has a new grand baby. Carol bought a house. Sam just got an English Sheep dog. Then he would inquire after the grand baby/house/dog a few times. People liked it that he remembered. It seemed to be enough to ease comments/concerns.

      1. Anonanonanon*

        Thank you for this insight! There definitely may be a bit of that going on. I’m super geeky myself, and sometimes I need to censor myself from talking about the types of things that make my colleagues’ eyes glaze over.

        Don’t get me wrong; I’m politely social (will tell people highlights of my week, what kinds of hobbies I’m working on, and will ask after their families or their hobbies). I just want to spend more time working along than in meetings or talking, and get emotionally exhausted when we have team builders around being vulnerable, or I have to spend my whole day in meetings because the company as a whole thinks that face-to-face interactions are more valuable than email or slack.

        But on the other hand, I’m sure I let that show to some degree. I’ve tried gently pushing back (“I’m not really comfortable with phones/customers” or “I think we could probably take care of this over email”) and have had responses ranging from patronizing (“How can I help you be comfortable?”) to shutting me down (“Email’s not really how we do things here.”). I think this may be a bit above and beyond a normal workplace….and I think I’m talking myself into polishing my resume as I type.

    4. Pollygrammer*

      What you like and what you’re capable of doing are two different things.

      Lots of people think of warm customer service as a work skill, and might look at you as someone who is simply unwilling to try to build a (necessary?) skill, just like they don’t want to learn a particular technology.

      Taking on committee leadership is very different from being emotionally communicative with colleagues. The second thing is something they want–the first may be something they think you need to do.

      I’m introverted as all hell, but I’ve never had a job where phone skills weren’t occasionally necessary. I don’t like making a couple minutes of meaningless chitchat with strangers, but it’s something I’ve trained myself to do because I want to be good at all aspects of my job, not just the ones I like.

    5. Argh!*

      Techies belong everywhere! I can’t imagine hiring an extrovert for a techie job, unless training or conference tabling were part of it.

      You’d think in the age of diversity training & everyone talking about how we should respect differences, that this kind of thing wouldn’t happen. Grrrrr!

      I’m in an extroverted type job though I’m not a total extrovert (e.g., I post to askamanger while eating lunch at my desk rather than going out with friends). I report to an extremely introverted boss who is also conflict-averse. I find her impossible to work with because she just can’t handle situations where two people could be wrong or two people could be right, or even handle the conflict between two competing ideas.

      Introverts can be very difficult to work with if they are also hesitant to speak up. I want to know what someone is thinking, and to have casual conversations even if they’re superficial. And I can’t engage with someone who runs to a safe place in their head whenever I talk to them. It takes all kinds but the introverts have to know when to come forward, and extroverts need to know when to back off. And all of us should figure out constructive ways to express distress at work.

      Accommodation and respect have to be two-way.

    6. Close Bracket*

      I don’t think this is about tech versus social services, I think this is about being functional versus building relationships. I am an engineer and I am extremely functional socially (I am also on the spectrum, however, being a functional social person is not limited to people on the spectrum). Unfortunately, and engineering, people expect you to be a relationship builder. My functional style has been alienating over the course of my career. I am afraid that your course of action should be to learn how to act like you want to build a relationship. Just try to remember to ask people how they are doing and what not before you have whatever interaction you need to have with them. You don’t have to become close friends, just expressed interest in their life every now and then even though you don’t have any.

    7. Anon Mental Health Professional*

      I work in social-services(with children) and am also an introvert. I constantly got feedback in graduate school from professors about how I needed to participate more and be more outgoing and got bad annual reviews from my professors because I was introverted. However, me being introverted caused pretty much zero problems in any of my clinical placements in graduate school or jobs I’ve had afterwards. I’ve always gotten good reviews from my work sites. Clients have different personalities and some people are more comfortable working with someone less outgoing. I contribute to my teams and collaborate with people and am able to make small talk when needed, although I do it more because I know it’s expected than because it comes spontaneously/naturally to me. I think you should do you and if your introversion is not impeding you from collaborating and being part of a team when needed, people should not pressure you to be different. In my case the constant pressure from my professors to change my personality into something it wasn’t was a sign that school was a bad culture fit. It was the only setting I was getting negative feedback about my performance in and it was more about those professors not valuing styles different from their own, rather than a statement of my actual skills. I was a much happier person and more relaxed in professional settings once I graduated and no longer had people telling me my personality wasn’t good enough. I hadn’t even realized how much I was overthinking my behaviors in and out of class because I was anxious about the next negative comment I’d receive from my professors.

  35. LDP*

    I (finally!) have an update! No one’s getting laid off! :) I can’t say much more than that until all the official announcements are made, but I wanted to thank everyone who gave me such good advice. And on the bright side, my resume and LinkedIn profile are both completely up to date, so I’m prepared for when it’s time to leave this job on my own. :)

  36. Susan / NA*

    Its Friday morning, my manager is out (sadface) and so is my boss. Today’s my last day before going away for 2 weeks so I”m spending it doing this stuff (managing ppls calendars for those who call out sick, “manager calls” for clients who want to vent, and managing ppls workload) and not the stuff I actually WANT to do (tax returns).

    For the first time, I’m actually not looking fwd to being away. I’m going back to the home country to take care of matters after my dad’s death. It’s going to be 9800000 degrees out there. I just got yelled at by 1 client who said someone’s medical emergency was made up bs, dismissed my “family emergency” and I think he was literally about to ask me to turn back time. Also got yelled at by another client yesterday who straight up said she wanted to cancel her services. so when I agreed and said we’ll start the process, that pissed her off. I feel like a glorified customer service more than an accountant, but that’s always been the case here so I’m not complaining or asking for advice…just amused.

    Any way, not much going on. Lots of little things but no big things. Got Alison’s book and I actually got one copy for my manager as well lol, will be reading it on my trip!

    2. Misa*

      Good luck on your trip. I’ve made that trip before myself, it can be challenging. Take good care of yourself.

  37. Kathy*

    Is there a trick to socializing/remaining pleasant around people who don’t like you? I’ve been at my job for 8 months now and “Sharon” and “Sally” don’t like me. The second week of working at my job I ate lunch with them plus some others, and Sally literally got up from the table and just left. I checked and they do this with others as well, but it’s still difficult to not take it personally.

    They also go out to lunch with my boss and others and I’m not invited. Despite all of this, they still try and make small talk with me. I’m sure they’re just being polite or professional, but I feel like I’m being ostracized. (I’d prefer if they just talked to me about work stuff, if need be. Otherwise it’s just awkward, fake, and insincere.)

    Maybe I’m being stubborn and should try harder, but you can’t make someone like you. Plus, they’re both twice my age and have been with the company for a long time, so there’s a certain status. I just don’t want to be a pushover either.

    Is there any solution to dealing with this until I can find a new job and get out?

    1. ExcelJedi*

      No advice here, but I didn’t know they let kindergartners enter the workforce these days. Maybe you should check with HR about them being allowed on payroll?

    2. BuffaLove*

      Are you the only one, or one of the only ones, being left out of lunch with the boss? If so, that’s worth pushing back on. If not, just do your best to be polite and professional. They sound rude and immature and not even remotely worth your emotional energy. I know it’s easier said than done, but try to just think of your interactions with them as one more annoying thing that you get paid to deal with.

    3. Laura*

      This might depend on your personality, but can you treat the whole thing like some sort of sociology experiment/observation? Your goal can be “wry detachment”. These kind of people are going to be mean no matter what, so minimizing the impact on you is really the only goal.

      Good luck. They sound terrible.

      1. whistle*

        I second this and add that it can also help to feel pity for them. Do happy well-adjusted people get up from a lunch table just because someone new sat down there to eat? No, they do not. These are unhappy people who will be unhappy with or without your consent.

    4. Jules the Third*

      From this post:
      Sharon and Sally (SnS) don’t eat lunch with everyone. They don’t eat with you, but you’re not the only one.
      SnS make small talk with you. They are being ‘polite or professional’.
      You don’t discuss any professional impacts this has, like losing out on work assignments or training.
      You don’t discuss any feedback you’ve gotten on why, like they dislike your race, or smell, or fave color.

      Blunt talk: Two people who are not actively working to include you in their social group is not ‘ostracized’, *especially* not when the rest of the team knows their pattern.

      The solution is for you to let it go. You can bend the small talk around to work, if social talk is uncomfortable for you. You can focus on being happy in your work and your relationships or hobbies outside of work, and see if that helps your discomfort.

      If you do get feedback about them not liking you because of some protected class issue or that it’s affecting your professional opportunities, then document and discuss as appropriate, but if it’s just ‘I’m new and not everyone likes me, and they treat me like they treat some other people but I can’t see an obvious reason why and I don’t understand’, let it go.

      It’s 100% about them, not about you. So leave it with them.

      1. Thlayli*

        This. In the words of sex and the city “they’re just not that into you”.

        They don’t want to be friends with you, or go to lunch with you. That doesn’t have to be something you fix.

        Her getting up and walking away is really really rude, but I doubt you’ll get an apology for that after this amount of time has passed. Just chalk it up to she’s a rude person. Why would you even want to be friends with such a rude person anyway?

        As Jules says, if it’s not affecting you professionally, just forget about it.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      Sometimes I can’t connect on a personal level with a cohort. My next go-to is to try to connect on a professional level. This means find something about their way of working that I like. Perhaps they are good with troubleshooting. Or maybe they are great at meeting absurd deadlines. Keep this simple, make a goal of finding ONE good thing about them as professionals.
      This will give you something to hang on to when other things are not going well for the moment. “Okay, Sally blew me off AGAIN. Well, at least she is really good at finding those annoying needle-in-a-haystack errors that no one else can find. I need to focus on the important parts and let this incident slide.”

    6. Bumblebee*

      I would just act like it doesn’t bother me, because they may get pleasure from being mean girls and not acting bothered by it takes away their power. I would be polite and professional.

      Then, I would text a friend/loved one during my lunch breaks, or maybe call someone who does like me on my way home. Just because a couple of randoms at work don’t like you doesn’t mean you are less of a person or unlikable.

    7. Pollygrammer*

      You’re at the “they don’t like me” stage.

      The next step is “I don’t like them.”

      It’s very freeing.

      2. Not So NewReader*

        OTH, you could decide to like them, OP, just because it makes things simpler in some ways. It can be very freeing to decide to like a person without taking into account whether or not they like us. There are times where this is an excellent tool for rising above the situation.

        1. LilySparrow*

          I think the point is to get past whether they like you, and look at who they are as people, separately from “do they like me or not?”

          If they are basically nice people you just don’t mesh with, you might like them. If they are mean people who are deliberately snubbing OP, there’s nothing much to like about that.

          But you can’t tell which is true until you get past the insecurity.

    8. Argh!*

      Figure out who else they snub then buddy up to them, and you as a group can invite the boss out too.

    9. N Twello*

      When people at work don’t like me I make a big effort to get them to like me: compliment a piece of clothing, find a shared interest, smile and make a joke they’ll find funny, say something nice about them in a meeting. Take them on one by one with a charm offensive.

      When people at work don’t like you, you’re vulnerable. They might misinterpret your actions, make a complaint about you, be less willing to help you in a crunch, etc etc etc. You don’t have to go out to lunch with them or even chat much; just get on their good side and then carry on with your job.

      Plus, examine your own prejudices. You mention their age. Are you perhaps acting negatively towards them because of ageism?

  38. Ms. Meow*

    My company is finally hiring in several different groups. (YAY!) I have been asked to sit in on candidate presentations and conduct a few short one-on-one interviews. I’m not an expert in the technical areas that these candidates are interviewing for, so my role is to assess communication and interpersonal behavior. The interview guide I have been given is… lacking. What are some questions that you like to ask in these types of interviews?

    1. Jules the Third*

      What is a team achievement that you’re particularly proud of? What was your role? Can you describe how team coordination was handled? Was that effective? Did you have any other ways you’d have liked to use?

      How would you communicate with your manager in situation x, y, z? With your team mates if you were a team lead in situation x, y, z? (situations might be: Working with client to develop requirements; actively teching; critiquing someone else’s teching)

  39. Amber Rose*

    Trying to schedule training is like herding cats! I’m so fed up. I get it, everyone’s busy and nobody wants to take 2 hours to listen to a tiresome video on TDG, or a whole day of first aid, but that kind of thing is also part of having a job. I’m getting stomach aches from feeling like I suck at my job for not getting everyone’s courses in before the expiry dates.

    I held a safety committee election and got some shit from one of the salesmen. “You don’t have to join if you’re too super busy” I said and he snapped “everyone’s busy.”

    So am I jerkwad but if we lose our safety certification then we’ll stop being busy very quickly and then we’ll all be unemployed, so deal with it. I’m asking for an hour a month, and I’m not even asking you. :[

    I’m so nervous about the move next month, because I’m on vacation that week so I won’t even know where I’ll be sitting or where my stuff will end up.

    I’m basically a ball of anxious tension. D:

    1. You don't know me*

      Sounds like maybe you need some backup from someone higher up. You can make a schedule and tell people over and over that they have to go but you can’t make them actually show up or do the online training. Until they realize there are consequences, and that they must do as you tell them, you are going to continue to be ignored.

    2. Jules the Third*

      Yeah, if people haven’t done Important Required Training at my job, the ed team starts passing the list of ‘not done yet’ to management a month before the due date, and management pushes it, along with a serious lecture on context. ‘TDG Training is required for continued employment’ gets people going pretty damn fast. As does ‘we’re going to clear all non-critical meetings on Thu afternoon, so that people can take that time for TDG training.’

      1. Amber Rose*

        Would be nice if management here cared that much, but they don’t.

        They will if it all starts going horribly wrong but then they have me to blame. /sigh

  40. Chai*

    Not looking for legal opinions here, just seeing if anyone has been in a similar situation and has advice.

    I’ve been in my current job for 10 months and have been miserable so am on the job hunt. My offer letter for my current job specified that the company would pay for me to take some job-related training courses, which I finished 6 months ago. Normally when the company pays for these things, the employee is on the hook to reimburse the company the full cost if they voluntarily leave less than a year after the company pays the invoice. Does having the clause in my offer letter get me off the hook for having to repay my company?

    1. ExcelJedi*

      IANAL, but I haven’t ever heard of that for training courses, just college/grad school tuition (and I’ve left jobs within a year of training on two occasions, though one was 3 years into total employment there). That’s just the cost of doing business some places.

      I would look in your employee handbook for that kind of clause, and maybe talk to a lawyer, but unless that clause was in the offer letter, I’m not sure they have a leg to stand on when asking you for reimbursement. (That may also depend on the state….again, ask a lawyer.)

    2. Argh!*

      Not a lawyer, but if you have that clause, you should count on having to repay. I can’t imagine them putting it in the letter if they don’t really mean it. And anyway, even though you don’t like the place, you’ll want a good reference from them after you leave. When you put in your notice would be the time to ask, I think. If you don’t think you can save it up, you might ask if they could take it out of your final paycheck or PTO balance.

    3. periwinkle*

      Also not a lawyer, but I side with the “you’re still on the hook” side. A previous employer had the same clause and it applied to anything paid by the company as a tuition benefit. It would not have applied if my manager had paid for a course through her departmental budget for employee development.

      Just going by your description, it sounds like the offer letter was to verify that they would pay for you to attend certain courses, which is a handy guarantee that you’d get helpful training very early in your tenure. That’s not the same as “we promise that you can take these courses shortly after you start working and we are exempting you from the tuition payback policy.” Unless the offer letter specifically and explicitly states that policy will not be enforced, the company is within its rights to enforce it.

      Sorry, it sucks to feel trapped. Try to think of it as a few more months to get experience using what you learned in the courses, as well as to figure out how to avoid miserable companies during your next job search.

    4. The New Wanderer*

      Also NAL, I think the clause reads like a promise of a loan (due to the reimbursement rule), not a gift. As in, the company is just reiterating that they will in fact pay for these classes if you take them, but the reimbursement rule would still apply. The ‘loan’ of company paid classes is only considered waived if you stay for a full year.

      Since you’re already at 10 months, you might be at the year mark before you have a finalized offer somewhere else, so hopefully it will be moot. But if you left next week, I’m guessing they would expect reimbursement.

      1. Happy IT customer*

        Since you’re already at 10 months, you might be at the year mark before you have a finalized offer somewhere else, so hopefully it will be moot. But if you left next week, I’m guessing they would expect reimbursement.

        But the OP explicitly said the employee is on the hook to reimburse the company the full cost if they voluntarily leave less than a year after the company pays the invoice, not from the time they were hired.

    5. Thlayli*

      Ianal byt I think They can only make you pay it back if you signed something agreeing to pay it back.

  41. Not a Real Giraffe*

    I accepted a new job that is a huge step up for me professionally and financially, even though I’ve only been at my current role for about 6 months. As soon as I gave notice, my boss sent out an all-staff email announcing my departure, the wording of which I found very odd:

    It is with mixed feelings that I announce that Not a Real Giraffe will be leaving…”

    I guess I’m glad she’s not overly disappointed to see me go!

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I would assume this means that while she is disappointed to see you go, she is happy for your professional success. That’s pretty much the attitude my boss had about me leaving.

      2. Lily Rowan*

        Yeah, that’s what “mixed feelings” means in this context — proud of you, sorry to see you go.

          1. Lily Rowan*

            It’s totally manager code. I don’t know that I would have made it up for myself, but I saw it in enough good-bye emails I’ve started using it!

      3. Green Goose*

        yeah, that’s what I would think. We’ve definitely seen “with mixed emotions…” when those emails go out at my company and I assume the “bad” emotion is that the email writer is sad to see them leave.

        1. bonkerballs*

          Right, it’s no different than calling it a “bittersweet announcement” that so and so is leaving their job. Bitter because it’s sad to see someone go, sweet because that person is excited about their next adventure. No need to be concerned about the wording.

  42. Anonatrix*

    Have to be anon to vent and worry today.

    First issue: I went on an interview on Wednesday for a social work position that seems really exciting and different from what I’m doing now, but the salary is extremely low. Much lower than I’m making now, significantly lower than my desired range. When I told the interviewer my desired range I actually saw her eyes bug out. She told me that it was way over their budget, and she even gave me a chance to opt out if it wasn’t what I wanted, but I hesitated and now they want me to come in for a second interview. I can’t live on that amount- I was really underpaid for a very long time, and even though I’m making okay money now I still struggle to make my student loan payments. I’ve written an email kindly and professionally withdrawing myself from the application process in consideration of their time, but I’m freezing on hitting send. I’m just so nervous. Would it be a terrible idea to do that before going on the second interview? It didn’t seem like there’s a lot of room for negotiation. I have to send it right away if I’m going to!

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      Send the email. You know you can’t live on that amount; you know they can’t meet you where you need to be. Let them spend their energy and time finding a candidate that will be a better fit for what their looking for, and let yourself spend your energy and time finding a job that will be a better fit for you.

      1. Anonatrix*

        Thank you- I sent it! I’m just so scared of burning a bridge. I’m finding that a lot of the jobs have these ridiculously low salaries for LMSWs, and I feel like they’re equating “new grad” with “no experience,” which for social work school grads is very often not the case at all.

        If anything I’m glad I had a successful interview- I felt hella qualified at the end.

        2. Not a Real Giraffe*

          As long as your email was kind and professional, there’s no burnt bridge! Take that interview confidence and go forth to the next one! Good luck :)

    3. rldk*

      If you know that the salary is a dealbreaker, and your range is way out of what they can offer, it’s better for both you and them to withdraw now. They’re probably assuming that you staying in the process means the salary they can offer isn’t a dealbreaker. It would be kind to both your time and theirs to not sit through a second interview knowing there’s no way you could accept their offer.

      1. Anonatrix*

        There happens to be a lengthy conversation about salaries in the Facebook group for my school, and one of the admins (who’s like the Alison Green of social work) basically confirmed that I made the right decision, based on her research and on NASW guidelines. Phew!

        1. Anon nonprofit worker*

          Just wanted to add, it’s not burning a bridge if the salary doesn’t work for both people. If you look at it from your side, the woman was direct with you and respectful of your time and preferences to the point that you considered going to the next interview – so she didn’t burn a bridge with you either. It comes to how you say something. So if you said something derogatory about their salary “you should be ashamed of yourselves!” that would be bridge burning, but calmly withdrawing because of your own salary needs is fine!

    4. A (former) Cad Monkey*

      I just had something similar. Had a job with a posted salary range that included my target salary, the offer letter came back 10k under that target and they wouldn’t negotiate, so i declined the offer. It hurt, it felt like a bad move, but the money was the deciding factor. You are you’re own best advocate. Good luck with your search.

  43. T3k*

    So I have an interview later today. I’ve tried to prepare for it, but all glassdoor reviews say it’s rather difficult as they ask lots of technical questions (and I don’t even have a year’s experience to draw from for this particular job).

    That said, I have a question regarding how you choose a job offer if you find yourself with two distinct ones. In this field, working with big names in the industry is a plus, but the position is short term, whether as another is for a smaller company but permanent. Oh, and to top it off, the big company is in a not so pleasant location weather wise while the small one is in a favorable spot.

    1. SoSo*

      I would choose the second, smaller company. But then again, I value the safety net of a permanent position over the reputation of another company. Being a temporary employee can really suck, and you’re constantly thinking about what you’re going to do once the position ends. That sort of uncertainty would drive my anxiety crazy. And the better weather would also be a huge plus.

      1. T3k*

        Yeah, same. I’ve worked several small stints and I really just want a permanent job now (that pays well, with benefits, etc.). Plus, nice weather is definitely a plus :)

    2. The Original K.*

      I’d go with perm vs. temp every time if what you want is a permanent job. I would definitely do so in this case since the small company has location to recommend it.

      1. T3k*

        Yep, after thinking it over, that’s the one I’m leaning towards as well, thanks!

    3. Jules the Third*

      How risk tolerant are you?
      I have a house, spouse and kid, and am primary breadwinner – no risk tolerance at all. I’d have to take the small one.

      If you’re early in your career, able to move around, no dependents – go for the short term. Save up as much $$ as you can to hedge your risk, but it sounds like the names / connections will pay off in the long run.

      The weather’s not a big issue, unless it’s life-threateningly bad (eg, Antarctica, Dubai or Saudi Arabia) – it’s short term.

      1. T3k*

        Eh, I’ve got a foot in each boat. At my age, I should be settling into a permanent role, but as I changed my career field a year ago, I’m back at the bottom rung but with no attachments (no SO, children, house, etc.) I can easily pick myself up and go. And no, it’s not life threatening, just difference between wearing coats year round (I’m very cold natured) or being able to go outside without a jacket.

  44. Lucky*

    For those of you in the process of moving up into leadership/management roles, how do you balance the ever-increasing number of meetings you’re expected to attend with never-decreasing amount of “real work” you need to get done?
    Probably not very artfully stated. As I’ve moved up to a senior role in my org and have (successfully!) increased my department’s integration as a stakeholder in several ongoing enterprise projects, I find myself invited to/needing to attend more and more meetings. At the same time, my day-to-day work and long-range project work has not decreased – in fact, as my department becomes more integrated, we are tending to uncover more work that should run through us/needs our input. And we don’t have additional headcount so my department peers’ plates are pretty full too, so I can’t delegate very much of my day-to-day. While I’m excited about my new ever-expanding role, I find myself either rushing through my day-to-day tasks, or not giving them 100% quality attention.
    So, how do/did you all handle this sort of situation – increased responsibility with no decrease in other workload?
    Maybe the better question is, how do you build and make a case for hiring an addition team member, especially when the department doesn’t necessarily have a full workload (but for sure we could find it, if we had the time)? I’m building a case for my boss to hire a paid intern for the summer, which is very much done in our field (Legal – strong culture for bringing in first and second year students for summer roles).
    Thanks AAM fam! You all are the best.

    1. dear liza dear liza*

      My experience is similar to yours- the higher I climb, the less frontline task time I have. When this happens, I’ve talked with my team about our priorities- what does everyone, including me, have on their plates and what can we stop doing so I can delegate my tasks to someone else? And sometimes it was my tasks that were put in the bin. When everyone was overloaded, I met with my manager and had the same conversation: What should we stop doing? Depending on the boss and the budget, I’ve had that result in additional positions (yay!), or a kick back to me to figure it out. In those cases, I prioritized and cut things, and sent unhappy people to my manager. I was fortunate to never have a bad boss who wants you to do All The Things, All The Time.

    2. DDJ*

      Can you clarify a bit? You say that you can’t delegate your day-to-to because everyone else’s plates are full, but that your department doesn’t have a full workload.

      If I’m understanding, you mean that there’s more work that needs to be done at YOUR level, but that at less senior levels, you’re not at capacity yet.

      If that’s the case, is there any way that instead of hiring someone else on, you could reconfigure work loads? Maybe one of your team members could be bumped up an org level and given some additional responsibilities? It seems like even if you did have an intern, it wouldn’t fix the issue that you’re unable to delegate any of YOUR day-to-day to make more time for additional responsibilities. Unless I’m really misunderstanding here.

      The bottom line is that something has to give. You can’t do your full job and then take on other tasks without delegating anything. I did it for two years and let me tell you, it’s not a good place to be. I just worked a lot of extra hours (unpaid). I’m finally learning to delegate properly and make sure I have time to take care of things. I’ve definitely had to build business cases and reconfigure some positions, but in the end, everyone has enough to do without being overwhelmed.

      1. Lucky*

        Sorry, that wasn’t clear. My department doesn’t have a full workload for an additional headcount. Thanks for the advice. I definitely need to work on delegating where I can and on de-prioritizing some work.

        1. DDJ*

          I hope it works out well for you! Delegating is REALLY hard when you first move into more of a leadership role. I’ve been working on it for almost 3 full years now! And I’m STILL working on it. It can be especially difficult when you feel like you don’t have a lot to show for your workday: I used to come into work, bang out a couple reports, make a few entries, respond to several emails, send over this data and that information and do x, y, and z.

          Last week, I had a day where I was on a phone call for a half hour, I had 3 meetings, a couple impromptu discussions with employees, I was working on a go-forward plan, and I got to the end of the day feeling like I hadn’t actually DONE anything, because I didn’t really have a lot to SHOW for it. Like, if someone asked “So, what did you do today?” I felt like a fraud! 3

          Also, as far as building your case (since I didn’t really speak to that at all, sorry!), I think that if you actually lay out “Look, these are some things that ideally, we would also be doing, but we just can’t right now. Between X and Y, and these other tasks, along with the fact that I would like to delegate Z to Employee M in order to better facilitate my new responsibilities (or priorities), we need to look at shifting some tasks around. I think the best way to do that is with an intern. It will allow us to get caught up where we need to, to develop a plan, and to better integrate as a stakeholder.”

          The biggest thing is specifics. The last temp I had approved, I had to go in with hard numbers. Like, here are the number of documents to be processed, here’s where we are right now, here’s how far we are behind, here was the actual dollar cost over the last 3 months that resulted from not being able to deliver these on time. It’s a bit of a chicken-egg situation, because you need the intern to give yourself a bit of breathing room to figure out what else your team could be taking on, but you have to justify the intern by figuring out what else your team could be taking on.

          I think that if you build the case, the worst that can happen is that it’ll be refused, in which case you’re right back where you started. But since it seems to be pretty standard practice, you may also find that you won’t get a lot of resistance, even if you have less than a full headcount’s worth of work. I think there’s something to be said for building in breathing room. Like, yes, right now we can basically keep up with everything, but that’s assuming that no one over takes a vacation, and no one gets sick. That was part of my argument for the temp as well – everyone has all this vacation time as part of our benefits, but no one can actually use it. And it helped that the vacation carry-over was becoming problematic, and was already being addressed at a much higher level.

          Seriously, best of luck on this. I hope you get your intern and your breathing room AND that you have a chance to enjoy your evolving role. It sounds like a wonderful opportunity for you.

  45. CS Rep By Day, Writer By Night*

    It’s been two weeks since my interview with my old employer – I knew it would be a while before I heard anything as the hiring managers would be out of the country for a week, but I thought after another full week it would be okay to reach out and let them know that I’m still very interested in the position. I sent an email yesterday to the HR person but haven’t heard anything back. I’m trying not to feel discouraged – this is a brand new role for the company, so it’s not like there’s a tight timeline because someone’s leaving and needs to be replaced. I just wish I’d hear something, even if it’s just “Still thinking about it – we’ll let you know when we’ve made a decision.”

  46. A. Ham*

    The theater company I work for is about to open a production of a play that you may have heard of. It’s 400 years old, written by a pretty famous guy, there’s a Disney movie about lions that is based on it, and it’s (arguably) the greatest play of the English language. It also happens to have a title similar to the smash hit musical that everyone is going so crazy about the past few years (see: username).
    That smash hit musical is coming to our city. A year from now. At a different venue. (And tickets are not even on sale for it yet). So… there’s no way that people would actually buy tickets for our show, thinking they were buying tickets to the other show, right? Right?
    Wrong. You would not believe how many calls we’ve gotten from people asking for refunds. Sorry, all sales are final. And I honestly don’t have a huge amount of sympathy for people that make that mistake- if you want to see a show so bad, maybe you should- at the very least- know what the title is? *sigh*
    So that’s what I have been dealing with this week. Any other funny SMH customer service stories out there?

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      …
      …
      …

      As a die-hard theater lover/Shakespeare fan, this hurts my soul.

      2. A.Ham*

        I know! as a lover of both shows, I’m still not totally comprehending that this is actually happening (and more than once too!)

        1. Lily*

          I’m just jealous Hamilton is coming to your town. I’m in the UK its in one theatre in London and no where else.

          I can see maybe one person making this mistake but repeatedly is mind boggling.

    2. Wannabe Disney Princess*

      I used to work in a store that sold spices. And this was before the Food Network REALLY took off so people were less than informed about cooking techniques. Anyway. This woman comes in and is asking for something for a brisket she’s making over the weekend. I’m making small talk and comment that she’s “going to cook it low and slow, right?”

      She blinks. Puzzled. Then replies, “No. The grill isn’t on the ground.”

      It took every muscle in my body not to actively facepalm.

    3. Temperance*

      Just so I’m understanding … there are people who confused Hamlet with Hamilton? And they consider that to be a reasonable mistake?

      I have literally no sympathy, if that’s the case. I am flummoxed.

      1. rldk*

        Famously, someone mistook it with Lin, the creator of Hamilton (link in username). They actually sell tshirts about it now (that I own because I love both shows)

      2. rldk*

        Famously, yes, it happened to Lin-Manuel Miranda himself. Link in my username! I actually own a #YayHamlet t-shirt because I love both shows

        1. A.Ham*

          Of course that was the first thing i thought of! I think our whole staff will have to get those t-shirts after all this craziness. :-)

      3. ginkgo*

        OMG. Before reading this comment I just assumed that there was some hot new musical based on Hamlet that I had not heard about. They confused it with HAMILTON? God save these people and I need more coffee.

    4. Time to get that arranged marriage my parents want*

      This story made me chuckle. How do people even get confused like that?

    5. Opalescent Tree Shark*

      Our customer service team got this question a month or so ago
      “Your website won’t let me use cash or check to pay for my tickets! Why not?”

      1. General Ginger*

        We’ve gotten that one more than once. “Your website won’t let me use cash for my digital download. Why?”

      3. Thlayli*

        Is that maybe related to the weird way Americans name Bank cards? Maybe by “cash” / “check” they mean a debit card as opposed to a credit card?

    6. Zathras*

      I used to work the returns desk for one of the outdoor retailers with a well-known generous return policy. I cannot count how many times people would come in and attempt to return our competitors’ store brand items.

      To be fair, once I pointed out the mistake, 99% of these customers would laugh at their mistake, apologize, and politely take their leave. No problem with that, I can picture myself having the same brain fart! But about 1% of the time, the person would get angry with me and argue loudly and at length that they “definitely bought it here.” I had one person literally scream at me when I pointed out the receipt they had just handed me had a DIFFERENT STORE NAME AND ADDRESS ON IT.

      In the spirit of ticket goofs – once a band my college friends and I were fans of was doing a show in a neighboring town about 15 minutes away. We decided to go together and appointed one friend to purchase tickets. The friend goofed and didn’t realize there was more than one show in the state – she bought tickets for a different day in a different venue about 1.5 hours away. Not the end of the world, and we ended up having a lot of fun driving down together, but we definitely teased her about it for ages. I think we also made her drive home.

      1. A.Ham*

        These are the type of people that are going to get scammed by a scalper for $2000/ticket because they don’t know the correct place to buy tickets.

    10. A.Ham*

      I wish i was making this up. A lot of these were online single ticket sales. But one person bought TWENTY tickets over the phone back in January – paid for, printed, mailed- and didn’t realize her mistake until last week. and then had the audacity to get mad at US because we wouldn’t refund her tickets.
      Like- are we just supposed to ask people over the phone: “Are you SURE you want to buy tickets for HAMLET?” Sorry, but i don’t think that’s a very good sales technique.. haha

      1. zora*

        omg: “So, before I take your credit card number, do you know the difference between Hamlet – the Shakespeare play – and Hamilton – the musical about Alexander Hamilton? I want to make sure you are not an idiot who doesn’t know the name of the play they want to see.”

        Sometimes I just don’t understand people.

      2. Gaming Teapot*

        Well, maybe not that directly, but I worked in customer service in call centers before (including for a bank) and the general rule was always “summarize all info before final purchase”, so I’d adivse to say something like this, before the purchase is finalized:

        “Alright, Mr. Smith, just to make absolutely sure you get exactly the tickets you want: I’m reserving four tickets in your name for Shakespeare’s “Hamlet”, in Grand Theater of Awesome, in Cinema City, AZ, on the 1st of June, 7pm. Your reserverd seats are B41 to B44. You’re paying with Visa, [insert details], and the tickets are to be mailed to your home address at [details, details]. Is that correct?”

        You would be surprised how many people suddenly realize that they had a number switch somewhere or they said “7 pm” when they wanted “5 pm” or whatever, but even if everything is ok, it’s always good to summarize.

      3. bookartist*

        Like, yes. It is not crazy and out of this world to confirm that someone wants to buy what you are selling, especially when you have no intention of ever returning their money to them. The fact that you think that is crazy talk is really disturbing.

    11. Overeducated*

      The Lion King is based on Hamlet?!?!

      …this is what happens when you watch Disney before Shakespeare exposure. I suppose the happy ending also led me astray.

        1. Overeducated*

          I can see it now that it’s been pointed out to me. But…how didn’t I get that? Probably by separating my viewings of both by at least a decade?

      3. Oxford Coma*

        I highly recommend The Seven Basic Plots: Why We Tell Stories by Christopher Booker for an interesting take on how few original stories there really are.

      4. Ex-Academic, Future Accountant*

        I’ve heard it described as a cross between Hamlet and Macbeth.

          1. Ex-Academic, Future Accountant*

            Also, Malcolm/Simba fleeing to England/wherever Timon and Pumbaa live.

      5. Anonymous Pterodactyl*

        This was my reaction too!

        Obvious in retrospect, but for a second my mind was totally blown.

      6. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

        Actually the lion king is based off of kimba the white lion which takes a lot of the same themes as hamlet.

    12. strawberries and raspberries*

      This is incredible. You should tell the customers that viewing your play will deepen their appreciation for Hamilton in more ways than they realize.

    14. Oxford Coma*

      When I worked at a fast dining place inside a mall, someone tried to return an incorrect takeout order from another fast dining place in a different wing of the mall. I told her she was at X and she was trying to return food from Y, which was upstairs near the south entrance. She rolled her eyes and said Y was too far to walk, so couldn’t I just handle it for her?

      1. Ex-Academic, Future Accountant*

        Rosencrantz and Guildenstern
        Our names are Rosencrantz and Guildenstern…

        1. A.Ham*

          And you don’t need to tell us apart
          cuz we’ll just die
          we’ll just diiiieeee

    19. allthearts*

      I work at a theater on a street with a lot of theaters. We’re a comedy theater–down the block is the place that holds all of the touring musicals. If you’ve purchased tickets and printed them at home, you don’t need to interact with an employee until they check your tickets right before you enter the house. Some couple managed to get through our BIG, BRANDED MARQUEE ENTRANCE, past our BIG BRANDED BAR, up our staircase with photos of our cast–y’know, quirky headshots with random props because we’re a COMEDY THEATER, and had to be told by the usher that, no, Wicked is a block over.

      So that.

    20. bookartist*

      Wow. Absolutely no kindness for all the people who have given up their money for something they didn’t want, all because your employer didn’t think to have all CSRs say “Now, just because some folks have gotten confused about this, we want to make sure, you do know this is not for Hamilton the musical, right?” after the first half dozen or so complaints. Prepare for a lot of empty seats, no matter how many have been sold.

    21. critter*

      Sure, I’ll add my favorite customer service story.

      I work at a call center where I’m basically a professional middleman. We receive incoming calls, determine what they need, and then collect the caller’s information and pass it along to the correct people to help them.

      So this guy calls in with something pretty normal. I tell him I’ll pass it along, and he asks me to call him back when the person who will be doing the work has received the order. I tell him politely that we can’t make outgoing calls here, but I’ll add a note to the order asking them to call him back once they receive it.

      That wasn’t good enough. He wanted me, specifically, to call him. Nothing else would work. Even after I tried telling him that the orders we send out go via computer, and that I don’t actually talk to the people doing the work and I wouldn’t know when/if they received it, he still wanted a call from me, specifically.

      Finally, after arguing for several minutes, he hung up on me. His parting shot, muttered into the phone just before he ended the call, was “Fucking liberals!”

      ***
      On a much more light-hearted note, I had a different call that was just plain cute. The caller said they had just called to complain about a smell of gas coming from their stove, but they needed to cancel the request. For a smell of gas, we have to ask if they’re certain there’s no leak before we can cancel it.

      She was sure. Turns out, they had just gotten a new puppy. The puppy had farted near the stove and then walked away.

  47. Time to get that arranged marriage my parents want*

    So I had a job interview a few days ago and even though I got a bad impression of the place, I was disappointed to find out I didn’t get it. I’m supposed to hear back from another organization this week (which, after doing some research on AAM, probably means next week). I hope I got it – I really like this job, organization, and hiring manager! – but probably not. That new grad life is sucking the life out of me.

  48. LDN Layabout*

    A few weeks ago I asked about the UK civil service competencies and would like to thank those who contributed!

    Have not had a chance to use the advice yet, but have an ‘assessment activity’ on Tuesday which includes a competencies interview (with seven roles to fill so I’m hoping law of averages helps here…) andother application which requires them so I’m sure they’ll come in handy.

    1. Schnoodle*

      Took a leap from HR Generalist in manufacturing to HR Manager in construction. I was terrified. But I great professionally so significantly and learned a lot.

        1. Schnoodle*

          Yeah seriously. If your name suggests you work in construction safety, bless you. It was like the field guys were suicidal.

          And time pressures didn’t help.

    2. CatCat*

      Height of the recession: packing up two suitcases and using the very last of my money to move 2,800 miles for a job that was only supposed to last 7 months. I ended up staying at the organization for 2 years. Got great experience in those 2 years.

    3. Jules the Third*

      Grad school (MBA). Paid for itself (including lost salary from working full time) in 2.5 years.

    4. Anonymous Educator*

      Leaving an almost–director level position to be a receptionist (and taking a significant pay cut as well). In the long-term, it ended up being one of the best professional decisions I made, because it led me to an organization I really liked being a part of, and it still allowed me to grow in my career and pivot to another type of position altogether.

    5. mrs_helm*

      Applying and interviewing for a job related to, but not exactly, what I wanted. TWICE this has resulted in me being told “actually, person in (role I actually wanted) is leaving, would you take their job?”

    6. Anon nonprofit worker*

      This’ll sound odd but… about my former boss. When I finally stood up for myself:

      After a year and a half of dealing with a controlling, demeaning, somewhat sadistic boss I finally told my boss’s boss about how badly my boss was treating me. I was terrified to do it and didn’t say anything about his behaviour because I was afraid if I did no one would believe me or that the company would side with my boss because he had been at the company much longer than me, and I was convinced that he was an irreplaceable part of the organization. It was like psychological intimidation for about a year and a half and one day, after another long berating phone call from my boss that left me in tears, after I asked what I thought was an innocuous question, I finally cracked and told his boss.

      I was so scared that I was literally shaking, but something broke in me that day. When I told my bosses boss, he didn’t react badly and he even apologized that he hadn’t seen it earlier and said he felt badly that I had had to deal with what had been going on. He immediately told HR and everyone supported me. It turns out my boss was also treating other people quite badly at the org and he was already on a PIP (I didn’t know). After he was let go I got promoted and was given a huge raise, work has improved so much that I see myself staying at this place for years now and I feel like I’ve grown professionally and personally so much since that day. It was something that I was almost unable to do, but it ended up being one of the best things for me to do professionally and for my well-being.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        This is absolutely inspirational. Thanks for sharing your story. I am so glad this worked out well for you.

      2. Lissa*

        This is the best story. :) so awesome to see that things like this DO happen, since I feel like the common wisdom is often that it’s never worth the risk and reporting a supervisor always backfires.

        1. Anon nonprofit worker*

          Thank you :) Yeah, that’s how I was operating (“it will backfire” & “they’ll side with him”). In my situation, my boss always seemed really unreasonable but everyone else seemed reasonable. I think what gave me the power in that moment was that I had finally had enough, so I felt like if I said something to bosses boss and he didn’t help or at least acknowledge that boss’s behavior wasn’t okay then I was ready to walk away.

    7. Fiennes*

      Quitting my day job to (essentially) freelance. It was a huge risk and could’ve gone awfully wrong, but it’s paid off for almost a decade now.

    8. DDJ*

      Quitting business school to take a full-time job. Technically I had only registered and paid for the program, I hadn’t actually started it yet. I lost the deposit, but I eventually did go back part-time to complete the program, plus I’ve been working at the same company ever since. So it worked out really well.

    9. Prof*

      Getting a humanities PhD. I actually managed to get a job as a professor after receiving my degree (which was a far riskier proposition than I had realized, going into my degree program).

    10. lopsided*

      Took a pay cut to switch from manufacturing engineering to data analysis, and it suits me so much better.

    11. Getting past the fear*

      Not strictly professional, but had professional impact – going on anti-anxiety medication. I had been in counseling for a while and although it was and still is helping, I needed more. So – Lexapro. Low dose, still have anxiety, but I can manage it. That’s helped me get past my fears a lot and be able to express myself forthrightly.

    12. Lasslisa*

      This is kind of minor, but I’ve noticed that every time I push back (professionally and reasonably of course) on something I get increased respect and appreciation. There was talk about implementing a really unreasonable evenings and weekends support schedule and I said I couldn’t do that long term, and that if we did that we were setting ourselves up for an attrition problem. And my management took that as me taking a big picture view of the organizations needs and risks, and raising a red flag that they needed to see, and I got a huge raise later that year (not officially related, but I think stepping up to have that conversation was part of what changed the way they saw me as an employee.)

  50. Pearl - Reference Question*

    Question about the quality of a reference. There is a coworker at my job who I was thinking about asking for a reference when I start up my job search in the near future. She will be leaving our company soon, which is why I’m more comfortable asking her than someone who I still work with who could spill the beans about my searching. This coworker and I worked really well together and I think she’d give me a great recommendation.

    However she is leaving our company after only being here half a year. From what she’s told me, the expectations of her position far exceeded what she was originally told and it was too much to keep up with (the position does has a high turn over, she’s the fourth person in this role, not including temps, in the two years I’ve been here), so the company is letting her go. Before her current position, she’s had a really great and prominent career with old bosses already ringing her up to take her back; she just happened to have a short six month stay with our company.

    Would she be a bad reference to have give her short stay and that she was basically fired from the position? I think it really did come down to bad fit with our company (again high turnover in this one position) and she has a lot of good jobs to back up her career, but should I still avoid her as a reference?

    1. Lily Rowan*

      I don’t think the reason she left would even come up in a reference call, but the fact that you only worked together for six months probably will. Does she really have enough experience with you and your work to be a strong reference for you? On the other hand, if she’s the longest-serving person in that role, she might be the best you’ve got.

  51. Teapot librarian*

    Still no PIP or discipline because I suck BUT I sent Hoarder Employee an email last Friday in which I explained that he had either done X, violating discipline expectation 1, or Y, violating discipline expectations 2 and 3, and then another email earlier this week in which I stated explicitly that he was not performing to standards for skill A.

    We had our one-on-one yesterday in which I said that his lack of respect for me is insulting and that he needs to seriously consider what is underlying his knee-jerk disagreements with me. AND in that meeting, as he tried to weasel out of committing to a deadline for a project he originally said would be done in October, I repeatedly stated that I need to be able to hold him accountable, and consequently I need him to think about what the project entails, give interim targets, and COMMUNICATE WITH ME if barriers to achieving those targets comes up. He’s supposed to give me the timeline and interim targets on Monday.

    Still working on the important things but this was a huge step.

    1. lollyscrambler*

      Wow, you are a rare librarian being prepared to address poor performance! Thank you for showing me it’s possible after years in libraries.

      1. Teapot librarian*

        This employee has been a problem for at least 7 years. I’ve been here 2 and a half and this is the first time I’m getting my act together to deal with it. So I wouldn’t be so optimistic about it being possible!

    2. Argh!*

      I was cheering for you until I saw this part: “his lack of respect for me is insulting and that he needs to seriously consider what is underlying his knee-jerk disagreements with me”

      We can’t dictate how someone should feel, only how they should behave.

      I inherited a narcissistic jerk who disrespected me and it did take me some time to get them to stop it. My job had been vacant for awhile and they had kept the boat afloat, but clearly do not have command skills or very good people skills. I finally said, “My boss decided that the position needed to be filled and hired me, so obviously you are in error to think that you were getting along fine before I showed up.” (that was the most-often used snarky line in this case)

      Logic. Sometimes it works.

      1. Teapot librarian*

        I hear you. What I said wasn’t exactly “lack of respect”–I don’t remember my exact language–but it was in response to language in an email from him to the effect of “you [I] don’t care about the public’s interest” and “this is why people without a background in teapots shouldn’t have your job.” (For the record, I do have a background in teapots.) He does have a knee-jerk disagreement reaction to essentially anything I say or do. We are going to have to come to an agreement on something substantive that right now seems like an intractable disagreement; I’m open to being wrong if he can demonstrate it in a way other than saying “you’re wrong, you don’t know what you’re doing” but right now all he is saying is “you’re wrong, you don’t know what you’re doing.”

        1. Argh!*

          Ahhhh

          There have been times I just had to say, “I heard you, and I don’t find your argument persuasive. I’m the boss, so I get to decide.”

          This did not go over well but I used it a few times until they got the idea that they aren’t in charge.

          In your case, the ad hominems have to stop. You have documentation in the form of these emails, which is good. A positive “do this” instruction rather than or in addition to “don’t do that” instruction could be more powerful. “Fergus, if you want to make a suggestion, please stick to the facts, and stop the personal attacks. If you need a cooling off period, save it as a draft for 24 hours, and then take out the unhelpful stuff and send what’s useful.”

          You could also tell Fergus that this will come up in the performance evaluation in category xyz.

          Your Fergus is a bully and you don’t have to put up with that crap. Let us know how it goes.

          1. Teapot librarian*

            Now that it’s Monday I don’t know if you’ll see this, but thank you for these thoughts. One of the reasons why I haven’t managed to put this guy on a PIP yet is because a PIP requires positive “do this” instructions and I just haven’t figured out how to do that. At least not in a quantifiable way. “Employee shall communicate without bullying”–who says what is bullying and what isn’t, especially when there’s a high likelihood of gaslighting. Still, even though I haven’t figured out how to do it, you’re absolutely right that framing my feedback as a “do this” instead of a “don’t do that” is important.

  52. Merida Ann*

    I have some questions regarding a coffee shop / café that’s illegally classifying its employees as independent contractors. It’s a small café where two of my friends now work – at my prompting, one of my friends asked the owner about the misclassification soon after she was hired, and the employer made some vague excuse saying it was okay and my friend didn’t want to push her on it. Now another friend is working there (they’re both baristas), and they’re both still being paid as independent contractors. I know this is wrong, but they’re both just happy to have a job and don’t want to rock the boat.

    So my first question is: what would the consequences be if one of them did report the company. Would the café get some sort of “cure notice” that they just need to start paying correctly from here out? Or would they face a back fine (I don’t know the finances of this café, but it’s only a few months old, so I imagine a fine could potentially put the whole business at risk depending how steep it is) or something else? Would the employees be in any direct trouble (I know once taxes come due, they’ll have to handle those differently depending how they’re classified, but if it’s reported this early, would it have any direct impact on them legally)? What would happen if the company couldn’t pay the fine?

    And the other part of my questions is just who they report it to. Is this still the State Labor Board, or since it affects taxes, does it have to be reported somewhere else? And does it have to actually be one of the employees that does the report, or could a report be investigated if it was submitted by someone else (i.e. me – I don’t want to put my friends’ jobs at risk without their blessing, but if they’re willing to have it reported, but just want to be able to truthfully tell their employer they weren’t the ones who reported it, I’d be willing to do it for them if that’s allowed.)

    I know they’re both just happy to have an income, but I really think they need to press to be classified correctly. It just really bothers me that they’re being paid incorrectly and I’m worried for them both as far as the tax implications and other problems that could arise from being misclassified and I want to know what the options are and what the consequences could be.

    1. You don't know me*

      I have no legal advice for you but I think they should be reported and/or your friends should find new jobs. Your friends may be happy just to have a job right now but they will have serious regrets next year when its time to file and pay taxes. Unless they are being paid an outrageous salary to make up for being misclassified, they will not be able to afford to pay their taxes. And now that I think of it, I actually think they are required to make quarterly estimated tax payments or face additional penalties and fees (and interest on penalties and fees as well) so they could already owe the IRS big bucks right now.

      1. Moonbeam Malone*

        >they will not be able to afford to pay their taxes

        This! Super important! Self-employment tax seems incredibly steep when you’re not prepared for it – I think most freelancers set aside a good third of our income to be ready for tax payments, and yeah, I think they probably do have to do quarterly filings. (It depends on how much income you have, but they are likely above the threshold.) If they do stay on top of tax stuff the best they can I would think that the employer would be the one who’s likely to run into trouble in terms of labor laws, but I am no lawyer.

        1. Pollygrammer*

          This is a report-and-possibly-be-screwed-over-now or do-nothing-and-definitely-be-screwed-over-later situation.

        2. Kj*

          Yes. Self-employed here, I knew what was coming, but it was still a shock. Good news is year one you don’t have to do the quarterly estimated taxes, but after that, you do.

      2. AMPG*

        Yes, things will go very badly for them next April if they don’t start paying estimated quarterly taxes now, regardless of anything else. Definitely encourage them to report it – there won’t be penalties to them, and the business will have to make things right (and probably pay a fine, but I’m not sure).

      3. General Ginger*

        Yes, this. Please make sure your friends understand the tax-time implications of this, and by tax-time I mean quarterly taxes, not just next April.

    2. WellRed*

      Do they actually understand the tax implications? Cause I can’t imagine that, for example, $12 an hour baristas are going to be able to pay a big tax bill.

  53. AnnaChronism*

    A few weeks ago a discussion broke out about coding bootcamps. People seemed to think they were helpful in landing programmer jobs without a degree in computer science but didn’t mention any specific ones. Recommendations or warnings about any programs?

    1. SpaceNovice*

      I don’t know about programming bootcamps, but my brother managed to get a job by taking some online classes and getting some certifications in the languages of interest. It helped that he already had a college degree, though. You could add on helping with some open source projects to boost your resume.

      One way to potentially research local bootcamps is to find a number of popular bootcamps in your area and then check the following: articles (local/national publications), their websites, and try to find out where some of the graduates landed via LinkedIn. Then you can explain how you weighed all this information and chose your bootcamp when asked about it during an interview.

      Make sure you get information to prepare for solving coding problems and puzzles. Those are being asked more and more during interviews, and being able to ace those is something people even with masters degrees can have problems with. This might require supplementals beyond your bootcamp, and online classes can help, depending.

      1. Anna Chronism*

        I have a degree, just not in computer science. Your brother’s story gives me hope hough

        Harvard Extension has a certificate that seems to have more theory too. It takes longer but it seems to go more in depth.

        Thanks!

        1. SpaceNovice*

          No problem! A degree is just one way of proving you know things–there are always other ways. Good luck!

  54. BookCocoon*

    I have to write my annual self-evaluation this week. Do I write my actual development areas or try to guess what my supervisor thinks are my development areas? She interprets everything I say and do through a lens of crippling insecurity (to the point that our director had to sit us down after she’d been here 8 months for a mediation in which he told her to stop aggressively disagreeing with me every time I open my mouth) and while she often comes back and apologizes after snapping at me, she still clearly thinks that everything I do and say is somehow secretly an attack against her.

    If this were an honest self-evaluation my main accomplishment for the year would be surviving her. I’m looking forward to getting another job.

    1. Boredatwork*

      I’ve always been described as “self-aware” or in-tune with feedback when I just write down what I think my reviewer sees as my weaknesses. I’ve never actually put down what I think my weaknesses are.

      That said, I would not add any “weaknesses” that you fundamentally disagree with your crazy boss over. For development areas, I only put down things I have an interest in developing. My admin skills are super weak and I have no desire to change that, since we have a dedicated admin.

    2. C*

      I think I worked for your boss in a past job. I’d agree with Boredatwork, although I never was successful with anything I tried. (Until I gave notice. Then, in my last few weeks, she seemed to think I was just super.) But I did learn that straightforwardness was not the best policy with this personality. Focus on what she thinks are your development areas and how you could frame them in a way that you don’t completely think is bull, and then grit your teeth until it’s over. Good luck!

    3. BookCocoon*

      Thanks to both of you! I ended up going with 1) making more of an effort to keep my supervisor updated of projects tangentially related to work (she’s really obsessed with the fact that I like to learn new skills via online courses, even ones unrelated to my work, and gets mad when I don’t mention to her everything I’m doing), 2) continuing to find ways to communicate historical context for office functions and policies while also making it clear that I’m open to changing procedures (this is a frequent flashpoint for the two of us because she considers any attempt to provide background as challenging her authority to do whatever she wants), and 3) find new projects in my work that are more aligned with my interests and will challenge me, which is something I would actually like to do if I can’t find a new job altogether right now.

  55. Lily*

    My coworker Jane is historically (in my experience) a lovely sweet kind woman. However recently she has been sucked into a pyramid scheme. I think she has started to realise it is a scam but is desperately trying to recoup her losses. As such she is trying to sell products and encourage people to become vendors. The main problem is she is doing this to coworkers who are a captive audience. I don’t have a problem politely saying no thank you but a lot of the newest coworkers (this is my first job but I have always been quite assertive, a lot of my peers less so) are struggling to say, a couple have even bough a few products (overpriced rubbish) just to be polite and it is money they cannot afford to loose.

    The result is people are avoiding her whenever possible. Including not inviting her to meetings scheduled because whenever she is there she turns it into a hard sell for pyramid inc’s products instead of putting forward her opinion of whether the teapots should be striped or polka dotted which is the purpose of the meeting. Because it is impossible to get things done when she is invited to meetings she no longer gets invited and it is affecting her ability to do her job (because she missed the discussion). People also avoid her at lunch time and have taken to leaving the office at lunch, we used to mostly eat at our desks but anyone who does that now is a captive audience for Jane’s pyramid inc sales pitch so we don’t anymore and she seems hurt that she is no longer being included in conversations.

    I am entry level and have no power over Jane, she also has no power over me but this has made the work environment very difficult. One of the more senior people on my team has a word with the manager who asked Jane to knock it off but there don’t seem to be any consequences for doing so she has even done her sales pitch in front of the manager without her saying anything. Jane is a nice lady and I think she got in too deep and is trying to find a way out but she is rapidly becoming unpopular and being frozen out by the staff as she is making it impossible to work when she around.

    I suspect the answer is either put up with it or find a new job given how junior I am but does anyone have any adivce?

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      This is not your problem to solve.

      If you’re in a meeting where Jane starts going off on one of her sales pitches, I think you could re-direct the conversation back to the subject of the meeting. You don’t need to be senior to do that. Just completely ignore whatever Jane says and say “So anyway, about those teapots… I think polka dots will sell better than stripes.”

    2. Seriously?*

      Has the work impact been pointed out to the manager? It seems like pointing out that she takes over work meetings to sell her side product is a huge problem. If you are comfortable being more assertive, when she tries to co-opt a meeting, can you try to redirect the conversation back to work? Also, do you report to the same manager? If not, bring your manager into it since it is a legitimate work issue and not just annoying behavior. You can also try banding together with your coworkers to shut down MLM pitches by quickly redirecting the conversation after one of you says no. You can also try being very direct the next time she tries to make the pitch and tell her that she is making you uncomfortable and you really want to eat your lunch in peace/finish the meeting/decide on the polka dot pattern.

      1. Lily*

        We’re a regional office of a larger company, most of us are in teams with a team lead and then one manager who runs the entire office. My team lead Sarah who is my mentor says she spoke to the manager and another team lead Fergus who was around at the time interjected that he has also said something. I don’t know exactly what was said but I don’t know how the entry level employee can persuade the manager when two team leads can’t but I don’t know exactly what they said. I have shut Jane down politely when she tries to pitch to me (explicitly as my hints weren’t listened to) but I haven’t been. Sarah was a bit ruder than I would have dared (as I said this is my first professional job and I’m working out where the line of what is appropriate or not is) and Sarah is no longer bothered by the sales pitches but Jane still bothers the bottom rung employees like me (and even the cleaners who make minimum wage which I think is crossing a line more so than she has already, many of the cleaners don’t speak English well and say yes to everything I happen to speak Spanish and most of the cleaners are from South America so I have warned a few of the cleaners its a scam when I’ve seen them). I wonder if the team leads are reluctant to do much themselves because this is so out of character for her. I only knew her a few months before this started but Sarah confirms this is out of character and they feel sorry for her as she was scammed but she is trying to scam others now which I don’t find acceptable.

        It is the manager who runs the office this has been reported to. The manager is not in these meetings. Jane is quiet during the one meeting the manager does run but the manager has seen her do this at lunch time and said nothing.

        I might try being more explicit next time Jane tries it e.g “Jane I am not going to buy anything and you are making it impossible to work with you by constantly trying to sell pyramid inc products when no one wants them please stop.” Unless anyone notices a real problem with this wording. I don’t know if I can get the manager to do anything but I might try shutting it down in meetings more.

        2. Seriously?*

          I would probably remove the “when no one wants them” from the end. Whether anyone is interested in buying is irrelevant. If you want to do it during a meeting I might go with “Jane, we really need to decide on A and B which is what the meeting was scheduled for. We really do not have time to discuss pyramid inc products.” Being more directly confrontation probably works better one on one than in a meeting although she has so thoroughly crossed the line that I think being directly confrontational is warranted if you are comfortable doing it.

        3. Jules the Third*

          If you’re junior, I’m not sure you really have standing to do this in front of her manager – be cautious about undermining the manager’s role.
          “I am not going to buy anything. Can we return to [work topic x]” would be ok in any context.
          “You are making it impossible to work with you by constantly trying to sell Pyramid Inc products” is something that you could say to her if you are 1 on 1, but you’d have to say it kindly, not angrily. Saying it in a group meeting or in front of your manager who hasn’t shut it down effectively could be seen as undermining the manager.

        4. Pollygrammer*

          Somebody–probably somebody higher up the food chain if you’re relatively new–needs to get this in writing.

          Email Jane telling her that the harassment over pyramid inc products is harming productivity and trust and it needs to stop. Give examples of how many meetings she’s derailed and how many times she’s approached people. And copy the manager.

        5. Aphrodite*

          Could you let HR know while asking them to keep your name out of it (even to your manager)?

  56. Seriously?*

    I have a problem that I am unsure how to deal with. I need to coordinate with another department for an important project. The problem is that while it is high priority for my department it is low priority for the other department. The main problem is that they have very poor communication. They will tell me they are bringing over what I need by X time and then cancel without informing me or show up three hours late. This wrecks havoc on my schedule since I cannot start another project if they are going to show up any minute. How can I ask for better communication without coming across as overly demanding? I do understand that they have other priorities, I just need to know when to wait for them and when I can move on to something else.

    1. SpaceNovice*

      Ask them what they need to successfully complete this project. Preferences, information, best times, if you need to be clearer about things so they know what is needed, etc. Assume they are not showing up because other things take precedence and not because their jerks, even if that’s the case.

      Anyone else?

      1. Seriously?*

        I do assume that other things are taking priority. My problem is that they don’t tell me when that happens so I waste over an hour waiting for something that isn’t going to happen. I guess I want a polite way to tell them that I understand that this is low priority to them, but I need more communication when things get delayed to avoid wasting time.

        1. SpaceNovice*

          Yup, sorry! You did make that clear that you knew other things took priority.

          Maybe something that says you know they’re busy, and that’s just the nature of their work that they’ll have to cancel for another higher priority task if it comes up, but that you’d like to get notification prior to the meeting time if possible. Ask if there’s a better time in their schedule to schedule this with less of a chance of interruption (if you haven’t already). Basically, your reply just has to treat them as an extremely professional instead of a flake.

          Anyone else have thoughts? This is theoretical for me and someone might have actual experience.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Let your boss know.
      You don’t have the authority to tell them they have a new priority so of course they blow you off.
      Likewise your boss is probably a peer to their boss, so this could involve your boss’ boss before it’s over.
      However, you can’t gain ground because they are going to do what their boss says to do. Loop your boss in. Tell him what you tried so far and what the results are. Tell him you need his help here because this involves people who are not in your department.

    1. Seriously?*

      I think it depends on your job. I would assume on your own time unless you typically do personal things on work time. My job is salary and we work the hours needed to get the job done but are allowed to do things like run errands during the work day so it would be fine to fill out an internal application at work. However, if you would not feel comfortable using that time to read a book or check Facebook, I wouldn’t use it to fill out an application.

    2. T3k*

      For me, it was both, but I was in a unique situation. I had a short term contract, it was ending, so my boss was helping me search for jobs (just a quick 5 min. search on one site related to our field) and if there was an internal position open, told me to go ahead and apply for it there at work (the form was just a quick “upload resume here” and nothing else) and message HR about it.

    3. Anonymous Ampersand*

      I usually do them on my own time, but this is my own team and I’ve already been encouraged by management to apply for this type of job. It’s moot anyway really as there’s no work time left before I submit!

  58. PeakVincent*

    I’m starting a new job and switching from a driving commute to a transit one, and from an unusually casual office to a more standard business-casual. I don’t really have any good work shoes that will also be good for the 15 minute walk to and from the train station! I’m a young woman with a limited budget (but am willing to make an investment in a good solid pair). Anyone have suggestions for cute and sensible shoes?

      1. You don't know me*

        I’ve been doing this for years because I’m not fancy and don’t care that I wear the same basic black or brown shoes at work everyday. For the younger ladies who want to match new shoes to their outfit everyday, they also wear sneakers to work but carry their work shoes in a tote bag.

      2. Pollygrammer*

        If you think sneakers are going to be too obvious, then really comfy sandals. I usually wear those comfy fabric yoga-mat sandals for my walk; they’re black, and if I’m prevented from getting to my desk for a couple minutes they aren’t too jarring.

        (Has anyone else been watching Aggrestuko? It has a hilarious bit about accidentally wearing crocs to work.)

    2. Temperance*

      I have a pair of Calvin Klein loafers that I love, but they were $100. You can get Clarks, which can be fairly cute and are decent quality, for between $50 – $100. Macy’s often has them on sale.

      1. Kj*

        Clarks and Merrell are both great. Try Sierra Trading Company- they often have them for less. Keens can work too and are very comfortable.

    3. Let's Talk About Splett*

      I have had success with Dr. Scholl’s and Clark’s for cute work shoes that are still comfortable, but I typically wear tennis shoes for my bus commute and carry my dress shoes in my backpack – it’s more comfortable, plus the shoes last longer & don’t get exposed to the elements if it’s rainy or muddy out.

    4. SoSo*

      If you are in the US, I would advise you to look into a store called The Walking Company. They sell nicer quality shoes with good support, and you can find some really cute flats and things for about $50-$70 if you shop their sales. The shoes are also good quality and hold up really well over time, so it’s a decent investment. I bought a pair of orthopedic flats from them right before going to Europe two years ago, and walked 7-10 miles a day in them for over a week without any discomfort or blisters!

    5. rldk*

      I just bought Josef Seibel flats and I love them so much. They were a bit pricey but they’re incredibly comfortable for my 30 minute walking/subway commute.

    6. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I bought a pair of AllBlack slip-ons like these in black: http://allblackfootwear.com/shoes/TL7S057P-TW

      They are super comfortable for my NYC commute and they’ve lasted me a while. I think I got them on sale because I definitely do not think I would have spent $150 on them. I like that they are rubber-soled like a sneaker but pointy-toed like a loafer. On most days, I don’t even change out of them once I get to work!

    7. ExcelJedi*

      I don’t know where you’re from, but in NYC it’s pretty standard for women to change from sneakers into heels or nicer shoes at their desks. Now that I’m working in PA and am the only one in my office who walks to work, I get weird looks and have to hide my spare shoes in my desk drawer or a bag, so it’s definitely a cultural thing.

    8. Overeducated*

      My coworker and I who bike to work in sneakers have been slowly bringing in work shoes and storing them here instead of carrying them home in our bags each night. I own “sensible” shoes – Born oxfords – but it’s nice to be able to wear more than one pair with different outfits. If you have any storage space, like a closet or extra drawer or footlocker, I highly recommend it.

    9. Environmental Compliance*

      I’ll echo everyone else here, but with a twist.

      I need to wear steel-toes for work. I don’t like driving the half hour to work in them because the toes are heavy. I have a pair of plain black slip on sneakers that I wear into the office and then change into my steel-toes. Changing footwear between commute & work is very common.

    10. DDJ*

      I agree with everyone saying that you should be fine to change shoes! If that’s the route you’d rather go. It’s really common to have dress shoes at work and “commuter shoes.” I do it! I wear the same runners every day, and I have a pair of sensible black flats that I keep under my desk that I change into when I get to work. I even see women in dresses and skirts wearing sneakers when they’re walking between the train and offices.

    11. Aiani*

      I’ve had some excellent luck searching Zappos under the comfort section and then narrow it down to flats or heels or whatever you prefer.

  59. Disappointed*

    I was SO optimistic about an older, highly experienced candidate, and the guy tanked so hard it almost had to be intentional. Arrogant and condescending, ranting and trash-talking his previous employer, pushing hard for an extremely high amount of PTO right off the bat because he needs time for his side business. Sigh.

    1. Teapot librarian*

      Hey, at least he realized he needed time off for the side business! A few weeks ago I came across a serious chunk of paperwork for my predecessor’s side business that he was running out of the office. And that’s aside from the college alumni association he appeared to be doing a lot of work for from the office.

  60. Fresh Faced*

    It’s so weird getting super late rejection emails. Just got one from a place I applied to over 9 months ago. “we’ve decided to go with other applicants” like yeah no kidding, a whole babies worth of time has passed!

    1. T3k*

      Must be that time of year to clean out job applications. I also just received one of these from last Spring and was just “Ok… better late than never?…”

    3. You don't know me*

      I interviewed for a job in September. It was an internal position and I know things move slowly so I didn’t stress over it. In December I noticed the job posting was still active so I emailed the HR recruiter to see if I was still under consideration. She replied that I was but also stated that I need to recognize that things move slowly this time of year. LOL! Ok. I moved on with my life and forgot about it. April 17th I get a rejection email. 7 months!

      1. Environmental Compliance*

        ….”things move slowly this time of year”? I think it’s pretty reasonable to ask for an update after 3 months!

    4. Elizabeth West*

      Hahaha the first week I was actually at Exjob, I got two calls for interviews for jobs I’d applied to long before and had heard nothing. It gave me great satisfaction to say “Oh, I’ve already accepted another position.” Seriously, if three months have gone by before any employer contact, most people are gonna assume they’re not in the running.

    5. Environmental Compliance*

      I’ve gotten calls for an interview almost a year after I applied. At that point I didn’t even remember I applied to them. I’m sure I came off pretty oddly on the phone. I only figured out I had applied there because I looked it up on the job database that I had been applying through.

    6. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

      I once got an email that stated “Are you still interested in this role? If so we would love to set up an interview this week.”

      This was TWO YEARS after I applied.

      State government during hiring freezes but still!

      1. A Nickname for AAM*

        I’ve had to do this at my work…at two different employers.

        In both situations, I was taking over from someone who was responsible for screening and hiring entry-level staff, but dropped the ball in doing so. So when we finally got around to hiring, I was pulling resumes that were over three months old…for a part-time position! People who want part-time jobs apply everywhere and take the first one that works out. They don’t sit around months waiting for the perfect opportunity, because they want a paycheck more than anything.

    7. PeakVincent*

      I once got a rejection email from KFC TWO YEARS after applying. I got it and and was like… I’ve moved out of the country… I’ve graduated college…. but cool that you let me know, I guess!

  61. Lady Blerd*

    I got promoted this week! It’s more responsability with a small bump in salary, more expectaions plus extra social activities that I won’t be able to wiggle out of but yay me! Never thought I’d be with my organization this long and go up the food chain.

  62. Co-worker, not supervisor*

    So my former supervisor has asked me if they can use me as a reference. I agreed to do so, as I enjoyed working with them, and I want to be able to use them as a reference in the future. I get the sense that this is not common, and I’d love some suggestions on how to handle this. Thanks!

    1. Not So NewReader*

      If you do get a call probably they want to know how she was as a supervisor. Have a couple examples lined up that you think demonstrate why you enjoyed working with her. Let the interviewer lead the conversation. At the end, if you have something positive to add ask you if can add in another comment.

  63. The non-librarian librarian*

    I’ll try to keep this short. I haven’t done an entry-level job search in over 20 years. I recently got my Library degree. I currently work for a well-respected library in an urban city. I do not work on the library side, I’m administrative staff (think fundraising/development/marketing/external affairs). For the past 6 months I’ve looked for an opportunity to move across the aisle at my library, but there have been very few positions in the area I want to work in (think reference vs. cataloging). There’s also the caveat that as the library paid for my Masters, I owe them a few years of work before I’m absolved of the debt. But the longer I wait without a library job, I worry the fewer opportunities I will have down the road when I do leave (And yes, I’ll leave at some point, I’m not a city girl). Should I leave (owe lots of $$$$ and lose the opportunity to have librarian experience at a good library) or stay (and lose potentially greater opportunities to get into a field I’ll enjoy, end up stuck in a career I have never enjoyed)?

    1. Alice*

      I’d work out the pay-back period. Can you do any reference librarian projects while you’re still working as administrative staff? Marketing is really a form of outreach; assessment is really important for communicating to funders. If you can show transferable skills and related experience, you should be fine when you want to leave. Good luck!

    2. LibraryRaptor*

      I’d definitely stay for the repayment period. Is there any way you could work out with your boss and the reference team that you could work a shift or two of reference a week? Or be a sub? It would get something on your resume while you’re waiting for the right position to come up.

    3. An Anon Librarian*

      I’d stay for the repayment period. You are working in a library. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with applying for great positions as they open up, but why leave and owe them a bunch of money?

  64. Baby Fishmouth*

    How do I not get discouraged when promotions/internal movies just don’t work out? I’m currently working in my hometown, which was never the plan but my husband wanted to move back here when I was done grad school so that he could do a specialty program at a local college. The plan was to move away once he was done, but he found a job locally (that uses his skills, but pays just over minimum wage, so not ideal). I on the other hand, found a decent-paying entry level unionized job at a local university, but that does not relate at all to my degree. The money is okay, but I’ve been here two years now and am looking to move up/on. However, I don’t have experience required to move into the professional/management jobs at the university, and the jobs within my union that are at a higher level are few and far between. I’ve had a couple interviews for an internal move, but nothing’s worked out. I’m starting to get discouraged that I won’t ever find a better job here, and that all my education was a waste and I’ll never get to use it. Any advice?

    1. Temperance*

      Why not expand your job searches out of the region? It doesn’t sound like this place has good opportunities for either of you, and you hate the place.

      1. Baby Fishmouth*

        We have both tried a bit, but it’s very complicated with two people to consider. My husband’s career tends to be the very competitive, specialized sort, so he hasn’t had any luck getting anything else in his field. I’ve gotten interviews for a few jobs in my field, but they tend to be in very remote areas where my husband wouldn’t be able to find any jobs at all. I honestly think we’d have better luck choosing a new city that has decent opportunities for both of us, moving there and THEN finding jobs, but we’ve done that before and it can be emotionally and financially difficult, so we’re pretty hesitant (we’ve finally just gotten to a good place financially, despite his lower pay).

        1. Baby Fishmouth*

          So because of the difficulty in us both figuring out new jobs elsewhere, I’m trying to make the best of our current situation and get to a place career-wise that I’m comfortable with.

        2. Thlayli*

          Sorry but I don’t understand why you can’t look outside your area. You don’t want to live there, never planned on living there, are both working jobs you’re not happy with, and have no opportunities there. Yet you won’t look anywhere else? Bizarre.

          Both of you start looking outside the area. If you find a better job first, just move there. Your Partner is getting minimum wage now right? He can find a minimum wage job anywhere. It’s ridiculous to put both of your careers on hold so he can keep a minimum wage job!

          If he finds a job first you’ll have to make sure that his new income at least is more than yours plus cost of living increase in new area. If it is, just move and you either follow in a few months or just move and you take a minimum wage job while looking for work in new location.

        3. Lasslisa*

          Perhaps try picking out cities you would both be glad to live in and could find work in, and then apply remotely. You don’t have to apply either everywhere or only where you live, and you can pick out a destination without having to move there right away.

    2. Jules the Third*

      Two years isn’t that long, give it one more at least. Also, ask what it would take to move into the professional / management jobs, and see if your boss will help you do the actions if you map out a path to get there in x years – classes or training, new tasks and roles, etc.

      It looks like the big constraint is your husband’s career, and that you have limits in working around that. Unless he’s job hunting in an area where you’ll have better options, your best bet is to patiently grow your current position.

      1. Baby Fishmouth*

        Yeah, it’s just fairly restricted because it’s a union environment (which definitely has its pros and cons!). I can’t do much outside of my official job description, and you can’t really just get promoted, all positions have to be posted for at least a week and if it’s at a higher pay level, there’s a LOT of competition for very few jobs. My manager knows where I want to be, and supports my career goals, but has very little power to give me any training/experience/etc to get me there.

    3. Pam*

      Maybe a different job at your university. For instance, I know employees at my campus who went from admin assistant to academic advising.

  65. Nclmrplm*

    I’m leaving my semi-toxic job (example: my boss told me that it’s great that I am smart, but that I should keep my intelligence to myself because people don’t like coworkers who are too smart. He also referred to me as his secretary – I’m a Director). I work in a satellite office and I told a few of my close direct reports. I am going to HQ to give notice officially on Monday. I’m trying really hard to be positive about the transition becasue my direct reports are crushed, saying things like no one will be there to support them when I leave, and that things are going to be a disaster while they look for a replacement. Sadly they are right – my boss is . . . not smart or knowledgeable. He’s in his position because he knows how to manage up, cover his own butt, and make things look good even when they are a disaster below the surface. I am confident he will be of no help to them at all. Any thoughts on ways to keep morale up? Also, I’ll be relocating across the country after living in the same state my whole life – any advice? I’m excited, but freaking out a little!

    2. Jules the Third*

      Leave your boss’s boss documentation of your boss’s crap.
      Set up processes that insulate your direct reports from your boss if possible (eg, documentation that ‘The TPS reports happen 1x / month and no more often, because feeds x / y / z are 1x/month)
      Spend some time with your directs training them on day to day aspects of your job, and why you do them.
      Document what you do.

    3. LDP*

      I think the best things you can do for your current direct reports are to leave them with as much documentation about how things should work as you can. I had a coworker that I worked really closely with that did this for me before she left, and I am still so thankful for this when I’m not sure of what to do.

      I moved halfway across the country almost two years ago and it was the best decision I ever made! Just remember that it’s okay to feel a little lonely and homesick, but that you’re so brave for even just trying. Get involved in your community, too. I think the best thing I did once I got to my new city was to keep telling myself that I was here to put down roots. (But, I guess that only applies if you’re really wanting to stay in that area long term).

      Good luck with all of it!

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Perhaps leave them a way to contact you if they need a reference in years to come.

  66. Free Meerkats*

    My manager has set a retirement date for the end of this month. HR needed a resignation letter from him to get the paperwork going. Unfortunately, his manager is on vacation and won’t be back until Monday; so while HR and his reports know, his manager doesn’t yet.

    At least temporarily, I will be running the program after he leaves. Whether I get the promotion and whether the position will continue to exist will probably depend on the organizational study of the department the Mayor put in place that the consultant will be starting in a few weeks. Oh well, it will be Lead Pay for the interim.

  67. Moth*

    I had written in a few weeks ago about if I should tell my trusting report, Spock, that another employee who he is friendly with, McCoy, really shouldn’t be trusted. Based on advice, I did go ahead and broach it in my weekly meeting with Spock and I think that it went well overall. He did seem to appreciate the heads up, though I probably ended up not wording it as clearly as I should have because I was a little nervous and he was worried for a moment that maybe McCoy had passed on gossip about him to Kirk. I did reassure him that this was simply a precautionary heads up, not a response to something that had already happened. As others had predicted, he said that he would rather know who to be aware of than be blind about it, though he did mention that he had picked up already on the dynamics with McCoy a bit.

    I did have some frustration at work that, while no one has successfully been able to work with McCoy and McCoy’s reports all day that they are looking for new jobs because he is such a toxic manager, McCoy received a promotion this past week. While in some ways it doesn’t affect me directly, he is now at the same level I am and I feel like the promotion justifies all of his bad behavior. It’s been pretty demoralizing to the people who he has been a bully to or who have gotten in trouble for his inaccurate gossip. I’ve wanted to go to Kirk and really let him know that the message received by everyone is that toxic behavior is rewarded, but since Kirk was the one who pushed through the promotion (against the wishes of McCoy’s boss, who reports directly to Kirk) and seems to like the gossip McCoy spreads, I figure the best response is probably to stay quiet and start keeping an eye out for jobs in workplaces that don’t promote bad behavior.

    1. Pollygrammer*

      I’ve always suspected that some people who aren’t particularly terrible themselves sometimes sort of…live vicariously through people who are terrible. Kirk seems like the type.

  68. Fenchurch*

    Looking for some advice from people who managed to leave a high-stress terrible job gracefully. Were you able to find a different job, or did you quit without something lined up? How did you manage your stress? If you got a different job, how were you able to successfully interview?

    I’m so burned out and demoralized I’m afraid even if I had an interview lined up, I would just bomb it.

    1. Amber Rose*

      I just straight up quit. But I managed to get a job lined up during my two week notice period, which was pretty lucky.

      I managed my stress in the poorest way possible, so sadly I am no source of advice there. The interview went fine because I took deep breaths before hand and put on my best Customer Service Face, which is something I have so many years practice with it takes over no matter what my current emotions are.

    2. Schnoodle*

      I was the one person HR department at a male dominated local company. This detail makes it ironic, I was written up for pumping. There were so many issues, that’s just the tip. Verbal abuse and back stabbing was rampid. My mind started to deteriorate, I was on anti depressants, started making plans for my husband to go on without me (paying off hosue, etc.). Yeah, it got bad.

      Finally, I got further help. The anti depressants were actually making me worse and blah blah blah, eventually my DH agreed I had to quit. I was getting interviews but not the jobs. Once I had a quit date in mind, literally a job with higher salary and less commute fell in my lap.

      I left the company best I could, made an HR Department Manual, tied up as many loose ends as possible etc. Just because they were jerks, didn’t mean I had to be too.

      Love my new job.

      Hang in there!

    3. A Person*

      I tried to set up interviews in the morning before going to toxic job whenever possible, so I wasn’t rushed and struggling to get out of the office in a stressed out frame of mind on my way to the interview. I learned that the hard way after bombing a couple interviews at the end of the day due to my stress.

      If I couldn’t get a morning slot, I did my best to clear my schedule for a couple hours before the interview.

      1. Fenchurch*

        Thank you, this is helpful input! Hopefully I’ll be able to get some interviews set up. This job is so bad I’m seriously considering leaving the industry and doing a complete career change.

        1. A Person*

          I hope everything goes well for you! Also if it helps, the more interviews I did, the easier it was to get into “interview mode”.

          Try to take some time off to recharge if you can – I found it helped to take a Friday off from time to time.

    4. Argh!*

      I was eligible for severance pay if I was laid off, so I asked to be laid off and they agreed to it. I told them I’d be leaving one way or another, but if they let me go they could put someone in my place who really wanted to be there, and they wouldn’t have to worry about me leaving at some random busy time.

      I used the time off for self-care and recovery. I went to therapy, exercised, visited family, and in general treated my “unemployment” as a medical/psychiatric recovery time. By the time I lined up an interview for a job that was a good fit, my mood had lifted and I don’t think I could have done as good of an interview without that time off.

      If you can afford some R&R before jumping back into the market, I highly recommend it. One of my friends who also did this (for a whole year!) called it “Funemployment.”

  69. CustServGirl*

    I hope someone sees this, because I could use some advice!

    I started my new job in Customer Service in February, and so far so good. My 2 coworkers, my supervisor, and I are all in the same room, so it is easy to hear each other’s conversations. My supervisor sits directly behind me, facing the same way I do. We all chime in when we hear each others discussions when we have relevant information to share or if there’s an issue.

    This causes me anxiety and fear of messing up. I feel like all phone calls I have with clients, she is listening to and judging me based on what she hears. I’m not opposed to her jumping in and offering advice or direction if I am speaking incorrectly, it’s just a big irrational fear of saying anything wrong.

    How do I grow in confidence and autonomy in such closer quarters?

    1. Time to get that arranged marriage my parents want*

      This is something I really struggled with – and still struggle with, I guess. The thing to remember is that if you’re making some huge mistake, your supervisor will tell you. However, they’re probably not even listening closely to what you’re saying since presumably they think you’re qualified for what you’re doing.

    2. Lupin Lady*

      Use a headset with your phone if possible, I find it really helps focus on your own conversation (assuming it’s got speakers on both ears) and save your most nerve wracking conversations for when they’re away from their desk or on the phone and unable to listen. But most importantly, realize they are most likely not listening.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      It sounds like she tells you in an instructive tone, not in a nasty tone. This is good.

      You can use scripts for frequently occurring situations. Even if the script is just an outline of talking points to make sure you don’t forget a point.

      You can listen to her on the phone and copy some of the things she does.

      You can practice out loud in front of the bathroom mirror at home. This helps with getting used to your own voice and growing that professional tone into your voice.

      You can ask her how she thinks you are doing, instead of nervously waiting for the other shoe to drop.

      You can practice your answers to constructive criticism. “Oh, good thanks for telling me. I will do that!” OR “I am glad you mentioned this because I was starting to get confused about x. I want to say it right, can you explain about x a little bit? ”

      It can be very empowering to open a topic. “Boss, I was working on Y this morning and I hit some bumps in the road. I think I could have done better. Can you give me some tips to beef up my efforts with Y?”

  71. T.M. Heneghan*

    Super random and light hearted…

    My Boss who cut his teeth at a small town newspaper in the late 80s/ early 90s always refers to our marketing emails sent out via informz as HTMLs. It drives some people nuts around the office, I find it more humorous to see how much it bothers people.

    So my question is, do you know anyone else who does that?

    1. KayEss*

      My last job referred to all HTML marketing emails internally as “ecomms,” as if we were back in 1999. I did manage to at least get them to drop the “e” from “e-newsletter” in the actual messages.

    2. Moonbeam Malone*

      Had a boss who referred to digital files being overwritten as being “corrupted.” “Oh, was that file corrupted?” He also called business envelopes “catalog envelopes.” Every time he asked for a “catalog envelope” I had to ask if he wanted letter-size or…catalog-size, (which was no skin off my nose, really! Just funny.)

    3. WellRed*

      When we do the layout for our monthly publication, you know on computers, it is still called pasteup. I am pretty sure it’s been decades since they used a light table, straight rules and wax to do lay out.

    4. A Slow Burn*

      My old manager calling all PowerPoints “decks” and not understanding me when I used any other term to refer to them. People haven’t needed to use a physical deck of slides since what, the 80’s?

    5. Environmental Compliance*

      Prior BossLady once asked me to set up the lightbox in the conference room. I asked around to see what exactly a lightbox is, no one knows. Not a single person in the office knows what that would be. I ask what I’m setting up the lightbox for in hopes of context clues…it’s for the training presentation. It’s that thing that puts the image up on the screen! So…..the projector? Yeah, the lightbox!

    6. strawberries and raspberries*

      The rep for the funder at my old program used to ask us to “PDF” him a copy of clients’ entries in our database. (He meant send a screenshot.) His emails were also written like a YouTube comment. Eventually we all started saying it too.

  72. CatCat*

    So California’s top court established a new test to be used to determine whether someone is an employee or can be classified as an independent contractor. The news is saying this is going to turn the gig economy business on its head as it is harder under the new rule to classify someone working for something like Uber as an independent contractor. However, the article says that the rule the California court adopted is already in use in New Jersey and Massachusetts so I am curious how that has impacted the gig economy in those states. Anyone know?

    This is the test now in California and all the elements must be met to classify someone as an independent contractor: “(A) that the worker is free from the control and direction of the hiring entity in connection with the performance of the work, both under the contract for the performance of the work and in fact; and (B) that the worker performs work that is outside the usual course of the hiring entity’s business; and (C) that the worker is customarily engaged in an independently established trade, occupation, or business of the same nature as the work performed.”

    Here are a couple of articles:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/30/business/economy/gig-economy-ruling.html

    http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/court_ruling_may_compel_gig_economy_employers_to_convert_contractors_to_emp

    1. Friday*

      Super interested in seeing how this plays out – we literally had a contractor here for a few months in a director position fulfilling the role for someone else who was on leave, then they stayed on in another high-level position that sat vacant until we hired to fill the role. So by definition, that would be illegal to do now since it’s obviously pertinent to our core business since these are employee roles that we needed filled.

  73. Colleague Won't Help*

    How should I handle a colleague who draws (appropriate) boundaries around what work she will do, in a work culture that depends on folks moving fluidly between roles and programs?

    I work for a nonprofit that is chronically understaffed and underfunded (lucky me!). Because of this, we all tend to do work that goes well beyond our job descriptions (on our own projects as well as helping out with others’ projects). I have one colleague who flatly refuses to do this… which is her right, but which means that everyone else just has to do more or harder work. (For example, she refused to take notes in a meeting between her, another colleague, and a client. She asked me to come along to the meeting to take notes for her, which I had no other reason to attend other than to take notes. I’m not an admin staff (like her, I’m a program manager; we have the same “rank”) nor is she senior enough to have admin staff do note-taking work for her [only the CEO and VPs have that level of staff support]).

    1. Snark*

      I personally don’t think those boundaries are appropriate, if pinch-hitting is the norm around your org. Same with asking peers to come take notes. There’s a lot of places where “nope, not my job” is perfectly appropriate, but your workplace isn’t one of them, and I think you can push back on it where appropriate. Most of it is probably something for her boss to take up, but you can absolutely say, “Brunhilda, you need to do that yourself – I’m your peer and we don’t have admin resources to spare for that.”

    2. Temperance*

      Those boundaries are absolutely not appropriate. I hope that you did NOT attend that meeting with her and act as her personal secretary. Yikes.

      This isn’t her “right”, and I hope you spoke with your joint boss about that offensive and ridiculous request. Wow.

    3. Lupin Lady*

      She might have had a really bad past experience with job creep; refusing to take notes seems like a slight over-reaction. Just something to keep in mind if you speak with her about it.

        1. Legal Beagle*

          This. Sounds like this workplace has a severe case of job creep, so I understand her resistance, but it’s not fair or acceptable. I guess it’s “her right” to say no, but working at a non-profit means pitching in on things that are outside your job description, and if you consistently refuse, you will be seen as not a team player and a poor performer. If it’s a big project that you don’t want to take on, push back with your supervisor. But taking notes in a meeting is a very reasonable expectation, and it’s rude and disrespectful to fob that off on a colleague. OP, I hope you refused!

    4. pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

      Set your own boundaries, especially with note-taking for a same-level peer. I hate to say it because it sounds like tattling, but if she doesn’t pitch in on reasonable requests, then her manager needs to be alerted. A lot of small things fall under the “other duties as assigned” category and SHE doesn’t get to decide that something is not her job. Of course, I’m assuming that the requests are reasonable — like helping to staff an event even if she isn’t on the Events Team, or stuffing envelopes for a fundraising drive. Those are completely reasonable in a work environment, especially non-profit.

    5. Argh!*

      I had my supervisee attend a meeting in my place and I asked for notes. Oh. My. God. Worst. Note-taking. Ever.

      Sometimes when people refuse to help with a specific task, there’s a very good reason!

      1. Colleague Won't Help*

        Welllll….

        First, this wasn’t a case where she was being asked to help someone else… she was declining to do a part of her own job and asking me to do it for her.

        But also, I don’t think we should let folks off the hook for normal-but-undesirable work tasks that they don’t do well. It’s far too common (in my experience) that people, either intentionally or unintentionally, fail to develop a skill because it behooves them to avoid doing that work. Witness all your colleagues who can’t seem to use the printer effectively and pass off that work to the youngest person in the room because “they’re good with technology,” etc.

  74. animaniactoo*

    Just expressing some sadness/frustration… while it wasn’t the largest piece of my company’s business, the effects of the Toys ‘R Us collapse are starting to be evident.

    • Overtime strictly curtailed.
    • A form a week later that must be submitted with supervisor sign-off on all overtime, detailed to the point of not just what project the overtime should be charged against, but why the work couldn’t be completed during normal business hours.
    • Flailing around trying to develop new markets and botching the PD in the process (What do you mean we can’t use that new teapot you just had us make in that set? Oh, it hadn’t passed safety testing BEFORE you asked us all to design paint jobs for it and now we have to redo on another teapot? What do you mean we can’t afford to make a new design for that piece of the other set you asked us to develop and we have to go back and use the original design from the other set… didn’t anybody cost this out before going forward?)

    Sigh. At least it doesn’t look like they’re looking at layoffs. In 6 months to a year it will probably stabilize but in the meantime… oy.

  75. AP No Noir*

    Any suggestions for sensory-sensitive friendly office wear? I had to take off a blouse in the middle of the day this week because the sleeves kept rubbing the wrong way and the neck was making me anxious. Is it possible to look professional without buttons, stiff collars, or suit jackets?

    1. Shannon*

      Absolutely!
      I’m currently wearing a short sleeve shirt that I consider professional. Target now has a section on their website of adaptive clothing, but much of it looks too casual for the office. Worth a look though.

    2. Temperance*

      Dresses! You can get dresses in soft fabrics and a variety of necklines. I don’t own a single collared shirt or button-down, because they are not flattering on me. They’re not really made for women with any kind of curves or boobage, so I don’t partake.

      I almost exclusively wear 3/4 sleeve dresses from Macy’s.

    3. Cotton Headed Ninny Muggins*

      My office is business casual, so I’m not sure if this will work for you, but my “uniform” is a plain 3/4 length t-shirt and a pair of knit trousers (both in some variation of black/charcoal/navy). It is very comfortable for me, and it is easily brought up to biz-casual by adding a scarf (usually jersey or a soft/non-scratchy chiffon) and a pair of pumps or ballet flats. I feel like I look reasonably put together, and I feel comfortable.

      1. EddieSherbert*

        I was going to say, if you have any nice scarves that don’t bug you, I’ve found a nice scarf can considerably bump-up the professionalism of a rather plain blouse.

    4. Jules the Third*

      Another sensory-sensitive here, in a business casual environment. Can’t wear stiff materials, scratchy synthetics, tight sleeves, or any neckline that’s t-shirt/crew neck or higher. Don’t like dresses much, and will not wear heels. I like:
      Vneck sweaters, including summer weight
      Cotton, silk or silk-like synthetic with loose sleeves – like the Target one linked in my name.

      My favorite tops were soft but thick cotton, tailored like short-sleeved jackets, with necklines high enough that I didn’t have to wear an undershirt. US South, layers are not ideal. They were popular about 10 years ago, but I can’t find them anymore.

      I know my specific sensitivities (neckline and texture) and have specific strategies for dealing with them. If your neck problem was tags, or if you’re uncomfortable with seams, it is harder. Sometimes extra weight or pressure (like a tight seamless camisole under the blouse) can help there.

    5. Pollygrammer*

      Knit blazers are really great. They feel exactly like cardigans, but they look plenty professional.

    6. stej*

      Lou & Grey has soft loungewear and lounge fabric used to form regular-looking clothes. They are fantastic!

  76. Shannon*

    Currently job searching to get away from this toxic place. At a previous job, there was a department head I worked with. She wasn’t my supervisor, but I did report to her for certain tasks. She is listed as a professional reference.

    I am now applying to work on her team (which she’s aware of). When I submit a list of my references to HR, do I keep her on the list or take her off?

  77. Decima Dewey*

    Morning, all. Some news: my crazy religious staffer, Fergusina, has announced that she intends to retire on or after her 60th birthday (60 is the minimum retirement age). The birthday is in October and she’ll be New Boss’s problem in just over a week. I will do everything possible to help New Boss succeed. I’ve told staff that rules will change, but I’m not sure how.

    Current Boss, soon to be Grandboss, is trying to get everyone on the same page as far as disciplinary actions are concerned. Her goal is to get HR to help us get rid of troublesome staff members and not just move them around, as was the case previously. Managers are to address issues directly, send Grandboss emails documenting coaching. After three unsuccessful coaching attempts, it’s on to first verbal warning (staffer can have a union rep present). Written warning would be the next step. We’re trying to prevent HR from telling us we haven’t documented enough.

    We also discovered contradictory policies on calling out. One, provided by payroll, says that staff have to call out one hour before their scheduled shift–for most of us, no one will be in the building to take the call that early. The Branch Manager’s manual says that staff have until one hour *after* the start of their shift, and that they must speak with their supervisor, not just leave a message with whoever answers the phone. Boss/Grandboss will look into this with the powers that be.

  78. AnonForMayTheFourth*

    I’m thinking through if I should react to this. After a major re-org a month ago, a peer was moved to an individual contributor role after having managed a team for years. She then contacted my manager and has been trying to join our team. This week, she called my manager and said that her current manager was trying to recruit me and that she thought my manager “should know” that I might jump ship. My manager then called me in because she was concerned. The thing is, no one on that side of the org has talked to me about this so I was blindsided and if they did offer me a role, I’d talk to my manager about it as we have that sort of relationship. I re-iterated my commitment to my current role and team and we’re fine.

    Should I react to this (i.e. tell coworker to stop gossiping) or let karma take care of her? I’m angry at how thoughtlessly she spread this gossip but I also don’t want to play into this childish political game.

    1. fposte*

      I’d lean toward letting it go, but if you thought there was a decent chance she’d be responsive and this could happen again, I’d ask her to please come to you first. But I’d keep it short and sweet and not get into the emotional weeds.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        This can work VERY well. “Cohort, I got pulled in the office and asked about X because you said Y. Going forward, you need to come to me directly and tell me what you have to say.”

        If you can calmly and matter of factly say this, for some people it shakes them to their very core and they stop their nonsense.
        I would keep in mind that you have already made the point with your boss, which was the most important conversation to have.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          grr, Hit submit too fast.

          One very good technique for these gossipers is to close the circle. This means if your boss hears something the boss checks with you and if you hear something you check with the boss. “Gossiper, Boss and I check with each other on things like this. I thought you would want to be aware of that.”

  79. LavaLamp*

    Question time. I use an intermittent fmla for a chronic condition. My company having been bought has finally assigned a new HR person to handle this stuff and…she’s not really doing it right. Every single time I use my allotment of days, she issues a formal statement or meeting saying any other absence I have is not excusable.

    Most recent example is I was required to open a new claim with a different doctor for appointments needed weekly. I was called into a meeting the other day and told condescendingly that I wasn’t approved for my time off because the letter she’d gotten had the wrong dates on it. I was able to contact the company that approves my leave and they sent a full eligibility that showed basically she was wrong. I’m really peeved that she wouldn’t consider she had wrong information for one, and that she keeps treating me like she thinks I’m lying.

    I’m tired of the stress of getting what feels like a talking to every time I use my federally protected right. I’ve been running an FMLA for years now and know the process.

    How on earth do I handle this with a minimum of stress?

    2. fposte*

      Can you try a proactive meeting? (I can’t tell if she’s on-site or not.) Basically that you’ve been using intermittent FMLA for x years with this protocol to the company’s and your benefit, and you’re concerned that it feels like you’re now getting pushback for using something the law affords you–can we find a way to work together more effectively on this?

    3. WellRed*

      I find it almost more concerning that she feels she has any standing to chastise you for absences or speak to you condescendingly.

    4. Emily S.*

      Is there anyone else on the HR staff that you could speak with, perhaps a Mgr./VP-level person? Someone above her should be made aware of her repeated mistakes.

      1. LavaLamp*

        The most condescending thing is; she forced me to recertify early, and told me that the insurance company who handles the claims works for her. Boy did my claims handler get a laugh out of that one when told her that on. And on top of that I got the snarkiest ‘you better be on break to call about this stuff.’ Like wtf. Definitely gonna look for her manager maybe. What would I even say though?

    5. Not So NewReader*

      If you have a good and professional acting boss, then you boss should be very concerned that this is how you are being treated by internal people. If you have not checked in with your boss about all this, now might be a good time to make sure she is aware.

    6. The OG Anonsie*

      As someone else with a chronic illness: Good lord this is so typical. Ableism is a hell of a drug.

      I second the advice to go around her as much as possible, and potentially talk to whoever supervises her. Document everything, everything, everything and come in to that conversation with it all laid out. Here is what I was doing before. Here is what the law provides me. Here is what she is doing. Here is where that runs against my rights. Here is what I expect to receive in the future.

      I also recommend you talk to attorney that handles FMLA claims and get advice for how to proceed with this, potentially before talking to the supervisor. Basically, handle this whole situation with the expectation that the entire company is intensely out to get you and it will devolve into a lawsuit. That’s probably not the case, but if you prepare for that from the get-go then you have your bases covered. That base covering is what’s most likely to get any upper HR levels you speak with to decide to cooperate with you rather than continue to try to bully you. Make it clear that you feel she is being discriminatory and potentially violating the law, and that you assume this will be handled in your favor by them but you are prepared to do whatever is necessary to rectify the situation if you don’t.

      This won’t feel like the minimum amount of stress because it requires confrontation, but IME this will get folks on their goddamn toes with the issue. They’ll start covering their own asses, which typically means giving you less shit.

  80. Toxic waste*

    In yet another toxic environment and I feel bad that I still don’t know how to handle it. I still get upset and take things personally. Ugh. I hate this. Does anyone feel the same?

    2. Nita*

      Yeah, I know someone who does. It’s awful. You think you’ve gotten out of one toxic place, and then realize you’ve landed at another. My relative who’s dealing with this thinks it’s tied to the nature of their job and is considering a career change. It’s not going to be easy at their age, but it’s either that or years more of this nonsense.

      Good luck! It’s easier said than done, but try to let it roll off you. Roll your eyes internally at the toxic people, feel sorry for the shriveled little hearts they must have, vent about them to whoever is close to you, and remember that at the end of the day you don’t live with them and you get to go home.

    3. Argh!*

      I don’t take things personally. If someone is a jerk, they’re a jerk. It says more about them than me. If I have done something wrong, and it’s handled professionally, I don’t take that as a judgment of my ability or character, just a mistake.

      I *do* have grounds to believe my boss plays favorites and I’m not a favorite, so if that kind of thing is what you mean, well, yes, some people may not like you.

      If you really can’t separate your self-image from others’ behavior or opinions, it might be worth a few months of targeted psychotherapy about the issue. I’ve had therapy at various points over the years and found it very helpful.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        What a world we have. If I had a dime for every time I heard of someone going for counseling so they can survive their job, I’d be rich. We have a world where it’s okay for employers to break people’s minds/hearts/souls. Something is so wrong with this picture.

        1. Argh!*

          The bosses are usually the ones who need to change, but they think that they got where they are because of their perfection and judgment, not by kissing arse or being the only sucker willing to take the job.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      This is why the environment is toxic, things get personal.
      And no, you won’t know how to handle it because a toxic environment thrives on chaos and confusion. Sane/logical people don’t know how to handle toxic environments because they are sane/logical. Basically the way to handle chaos and confusion is to leave.

      1. Toxic waste*

        Thank you, thank you, thank you. I felt ashamed and like I failed somehow, but the stuff that goes on at that place just isn’t right.

        2. Argh!*

          I consider it a feather in my cap to have worked for an insane and incompetent boss and still have something resembling my own personality intact.

    5. Mimmy*

      My early jobs were fairly toxic, so I can relate. It’s the kind of thing where you feel like no matter what job or industry, all employers are, at the very least, dysfunctional.

  81. Thirtysomething*

    Switched jobs finally–I’ve posted here before about an 80 year old subordinate that absolutely hated me and refused to follow directions. Very happy 3 weeks into my new position, but I fear it isn’t far enough from 80 year old…I’ve spent 3 weeks defending myself from afar about my old job. SIGH!

  82. New Employee Takes Too Much Time Off*

    My husband recently hired a junior staff member who takes a lot of liberties with time off.

    Since being hired in January he: 1) In his first week, requested two weeks off (one to happen in month 2, one to happen in month 3); 2) Requested to work for home for a full week during the Superbowl (he lives in downtown Minneapolis, where the Superbowl was held this year); 3) Worked from home every time it snowed (again, Minnesota, so that’s not infrequent); and 4) Called out/worked for home due to illness 4 times.

    Their work culture does not include much WFH. My husband has been there two years and has WFH twice, both times when he had a plane to catch mid-day. My husband believes in WFH and allows his staff to do it more than is common for their office, but has coached this employee on managing the impression others have of him (i.e., “I’m comfortable with you working from home so I’m going to say yes, but the amount of time you spend out of the office is affecting how other people think of you.”) My husband realized recently that it’s also impacting how HE thinks of the employee — he’s rolling his eyes whenever he gets another request.

    What should he do?

    2. Snark*

      Start saying no.

      Seriously, I think that’s 100% okay. I would not do so for illness, but Super Bowl, multiple weeks off in the first six months, and work from home every time it snows? Nope. Not reasonable.

      I do think a friendly, hey, new rule talk is warranted. “Generally, I am friendly to requests to work from home, but you’re out of the office more than the norm in this organization. In addition to being out of the office more than I prefer, it’s also affecting your personal reputation, so please plan on working from the office unless circumstances or conditions are really exceptional. Also, please don’t plan any more absences until you have the PTO accumulated to cover them.”

      As far as snow days go, unless the roads are really awful, I think he’s in the right to say, “since we do live in a place that gets winter weather frequently, I will need you to plan to work in the office unless roads are unusually bad, routes to work are impassible, or the storm is atypically heavy.”

      1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

        This is great, thanks.

        He did say no to the second requested week off, and asked the employee to play it by ear during the Superbowl week (I believe he ended up working from home two days). It’s the requesting that’s starting to frustrate my husband, so your script will be helpful.

        1. Amtelope*

          I think “I’m comfortable with you working from home so I’m going to say yes, but the amount of time you spend out of the office is affecting how other people think of you.” is going to be a difficult mixed message for many people to negotiate. It may be easier for everyone if your husband lays out some clear rules: “Please don’t ask to WFH more often than every 2-3 months (or whatever seems reasonable). We don’t allow multiple WFH days in a row. When it snows, we need employees to come in unless the roads are closed; it’s not an option to work from home every time it snows.” Etc.

          1. Snark*

            It’s not a mixed message – because that’s not the message. It’s “I’m not hostile to the idea in general of people working from home when it makes sense, but you in particular have been requesting WFH too often and for reasons we don’t usually let people do it, so I won’t be saying yes to those requests unless it’s for a good reason.”

            1. Amtelope*

              No, I agree with that, but the OP said that what had been communicated so far was literally what I quoted — that husband was open to the idea of working from home, but also that it might affect how others in the company perceived the employee. I don’t think that’s enough to go on. What you’re saying is a clearer way of communicating expectations, as long as “too often” and “for a good reason” are defined.

              1. The OG Anonsie*

                I agree, as someone who’s been told this exact thing before for being out one day every other month or so. That feels to me like not a lot of instances, and it was only slightly more than anyone else was doing. So being told “people perceive this negatively but I’m ok with it” is like… Ok, so what do I do with this information? Where is the line, since evidently I’m not picking up on it?

                Because let’s be frank here, if you’re 100% ok with what someone is doing, you’re not going to give them warnings like this. It’s telling someone they should change what they’re doing without admitting it’s because you want them to change it, which is a pretty big cop out. “Oh I don’t care but other people care…” No, you definitely care! He even said so himself. You have to give clearer feedback than that.

          2. Natalie*

            I don’t think it’s a mixed message so much – it’s perfectly possible for something to be allowed but have it negatively affect your reputation. But it sounds like the boss was hoping Fergus would take one possible conclusion (“I care about how I’m perceived so I’m going to change my behavior”) and forgetting that Fergus is perfectly able to decide that they don’t care about how they’re being perceived and won’t change their behavior.

            If what Boss meant was “I care about this and you need to change your behavior”, he will probably need to say that more plainly.

    3. animaniactoo*

      Start telling him no NOW before this employee gets it settled in his head that his new company is so awesome and this is how they operate and life is grand.

      “I’ve talked to you before about managing the appearance around this. While I am comfortable with the amount of work you’ve been doing at home and am open to some work from home, the amount of it needs to be more in line with our office norms. Due to this and our previous conversation about managing the appearance, I am not willing to approve another request so soon. Please be more selective about when you ask to use this benefit going forward. I think you do great work and I’m happy to have you, but need you to plan on being in the office more than you have been.”

    4. Kathenus*

      It would be doing everyone involved a service to be clear with this employee about what is/isn’t OK with WFH in this role (ideally this would have been worked out when they were hired). Right now it sounds like in your husband’s trying to be somewhat flexible that there isn’t clarity for the employee for what is allowed. Instead of being frustrated with the employee, just have a meeting to lay out what amount of WFH is acceptable, and under what circumstances, so that the expectations are clear on both sides.

      1. Thlayli*

        Yes. Looking at it from the employees perspective, he’s probably thinking joe great it is that he can WFH as much as he likes. Literally no-one has told him this is a bad idea so why would he stop asking when he keeps being told yes?

        “It affects how other people think of you” is not a big deal to many people. If my boss gave me the same response your husband gave this guy, I would interpret it as the boss telling me “you have to choose between being popular and getting to stay in bed an extra hour and not have a commute”. Personally idgaf how other people think of me so that choice would be pretty easy for me to make.

    5. Ann O.*

      One thing I note is that your post conflates time off and working from home, which makes me wonder how much of this is an issue of the employee not matching the work culture versus the work culture not being 100% reasonable.

      The other thing I noticed is that your husband believes in WFH, but in a practical sense has never actually worked from home. Two times in two years, both when he was catching a midday plane isn’t really working from home. So that also makes me wonder if your husband may have some subconscious bias that working from home isn’t really working effectively. If your husband hasn’t formalized his WFH policy, I would suggest that he step back for a second, really think about it, and then formalize it.

  83. Lupin Lady*

    There’s a very good chance that I’m going to be getting a 2nd body in my department of 1 – somebody to help with my workload (account rep style stuff that is very time sensitive), especially when I’m sick or on vacation. I’ve never *formally* supervised anyone, so 2 questions: How can I convince my higher-ups that I should be the formal supervisor, rather than the person ‘just’ responsible for training them and answering all their questions? And what tips do people have on training and supervising people?

    1. animaniactoo*

      Well, what’s your argument for why you should be a formal supervisor over them? How is the work split planned? Who will be responsible for assigning workload and why? Why should it be you? Who will it be if it’s not you? Why would it be better for it to be you? Same for questions about reviewing work, responsible for quality of work, etc.

      1. Lupin Lady*

        I’m not sure whether you’re suggesting questions to address but actually asking. The short version is that I’m the only person in the company that knows how to do my job. I’ve built the position and created the policies and protocall (it’s a startup). Nobody else had the bandwidth to take on more responsibility. The most likely candidate has less industry experience and will be part time. I think those are pretty good reasons for why it should be me, without even getting into my skill set.

        1. animaniactoo*

          I am actually suggesting addressing those questions. For yourself. So that you have answers to them – because those are the things that are going to be reasons beyond “your experience means you can train them up to your standard and then they can work independently of you”.

          What you’ve said so far are arguments for why you should be the person to train them. What you want is arguments for why you should basically maintain control over the functions of your job, rather than having it split up to whoever you report in to.

          Along with how it would help or harm your workflow and/or the work product for it *not* to be you. From a company standpoint, the reasons need to go beyond you think you deserve it for what you’ve done so far/where you are now.

          1. animaniactoo*

            Sorry, the framing of that was a tad harsh – I’m getting ready to run out of the office and won’t be back until later. The basis of what I said remains, but pretend I said it more tactfully and diplomatically, k?

  84. yeabutt*

    I have an interview with another department at the university where I currently work. I interviewed for a position with them last year and was one of the two finalist candidates; the other candidate was offered the job. I feel awkward about having this upcoming interview withpeople who have “rejected” me in the past. This is complicated by the fact that because this department is in the same building as mine, I have run into those interviewers by the elevators – and I believe our interactions were kind of awkward. I also think I didn’t respond well to some questions in the interviews last year, and I feel more intimidated now and concerned that I will make similar missteps again.
    So, any advice on how to present myself confidently at the interview without feeling like a reject being given a second chance? If it’s relevant, this new open position is a better fit for my experience than the one I applied to last year, so I believe my chances are better this time.

    1. LibraryRaptor*

      Try to frame it in a more positive way. They’re interviewing you again because they liked you so much the last time. You weren’t rejected, you were one of two top candidates!

      Practice some types of questions that you felt you stumbled on.

      If they thought your answers were bad they would not interview you again. As a person who’s seen some bad interviews, I would never call someone back for a second one just because I pitied them.

      1. yeabutt*

        Thank you for the thoughtful response! What you said makes sense but it’s really hard to internalize it and not feel intimidated.

        1. LibraryRaptor*

          Oh, I feel you. Some advice on here that has helped me in situations like this is thinking of an interview as a two-way street (which can be really hard when you want the job!) – you want to know if you’d be a good fit too. If you’re meeting with the same people, this is an opportunity to ask questions you didn’t get to last time or to delve a little deeper into things you might not have had the chance to at interview 1.

          I know it’s hard to not take it personally. Here’s my fun anecdote of being rejected a bunch: I applied for a job at a different university. They called to tell me they didn’t think I was right for it but they had a different opening and to apply for that. I applied. I didn’t get it. They called me to tell me about a different opportunity. I applied, didn’t get interviewed. They called me again to apply for another position! I felt really bad about it but, there was something about me and my resume that made them think I was qualified and would be a good fit. Though I kept getting edged out by other candidates (and I eventually got frustrated and moved on), they kept reaching out.

          Stay friendly with the people you see in the hallways and department. I do know some places never promote from within (which is awful) but some universities do and people knowing you and your demeanor can help you greatly.

    2. Little Bean*

      I applied twice for a job in the same office, was a finalist both times and didn’t get the job both times. I later got a different job in the same organization and eventually was coworkers with both of the people who were hired over me – how weird is that? Here’s the thing I learned though: the people who were hired over me weren’t better than me. I worked closely with them for years and they’re great – they have slightly different skill sets and there are some things they do better than me, and plenty of things that I do better than them. So maybe that other job wasn’t the best fit for me or I was having an off day or… maybe hiring is just an imprecise science and sometimes they make mistakes :).

    3. Marvel*

      My experience is in casting for theatre, not in hiring, but I suspect this is the same in both:

      There are so, so, so many times when we have two people (or more!) who are both absolutely amazing, and we wish we could take both of them. Sometimes it’s so close that the final decision is almost arbitrary, because on the one hand you have to make one, but on the other you have 2+ people who would both be great fits and who you would be excited about casting. We’re always beyond thrilled when the other person shows back up later and we can use them in a different role.

      Since you were a finalist before, your interviewers probably aren’t thinking of this as your second chance–they’re thinking of it as THEIR second chance to snag you.

    4. BRR*

      If you were a finalist, I wouldn’t think of it they rejected you. Have you ever been on the hiring side of things? It’s very common to like all the finalists. I would also guess you’re overthinking the interview questions. It’s incredibly common to second guess things after an interview but people have a habit of being in their head about these things.

  85. Mockingjay*

    What a week! Nothing horrible happened to me, but there’s been tension between a couple of team members. One really good at what he does, but a little needy and talky; the other is technically smart, but provides lackadaisical product and is a complete jerk to the needy one, as well as the rest of the team. Things finally blew up between the two in spectacular fashion.

    As a result, the jerk will be removed from the project, for which we all breathed a sigh of relief, but people are still wound up. I’ve spent the entire week soothing team members including the project lead. “There, there, it’s all good now; here’s the plan going forward” or “don’t worry about the status of X, we’ll tackle it Monday when everyone’s fresh.” And so on.

    I am tired. I am taking the afternoon off!

    1. Snark*

      Ooof. That’s a bad mix. Glad y’all are getting a breather.

      Are you planning to address the talky-neediness? Do you think that’s a problem that causes friction otherwise?

      1. Mockingjay*

        I’ve figured out how to work with him. He just likes an audience, so I touch base with him once or twice a week and just listen. I’ve actually learned a lot from him. He’s always polite and professional, so I can handle a little extra enthusiasm when he gets excited about his work. He’s proud of what he does and likes to provide a benefit to the team. Those are pretty admirable qualities on the whole; just his delivery doesn’t quite cut off quite as soon as you or I would stop. I work daily with him; the others interact only once or twice a week, so it doesn’t seem to be an issue with them.

  86. Batshua*

    Whoo, I had my pre-midyear review! My boss decided not to make it formal, so we can revisit my score later. She’s pleased with my timeliness right now (Hooray!!!), but I have been making some mistakes I gotta work on, and that’s why we’re revisiting. At least I can bring my score up? I hope.

    Also, someone higher up narced on me for surfing the web during the /second/ training I went to on some software I already know how to use. (And yes, I did do the training. The first time. And the second time. I was just going faster than everyone else because I’d done it before.)

    I swear, boredom is gonna get me in more trouble than anything else! I seriously don’t know how people handle not having work to do; it is literally THE WORST. I am doing my best to use the work social networking site, which is technically permissible, to keep my mind occupied. It helps some. But not enough.

    I … clearly need a job where I can do filler work. Or where it’s okay to do something else when you don’t have work. But boredom is killing me. I mean, I love my job, but even things like waiting for my call to connect … I need more stimulus! Do folks have ideas?

    1. Batshua*

      OH! And my new PA is TERRIBLE. She abdicated responsibility and refused to help me with endo stuff even though I told her my JOB is on the line. She was like “nope, wait until June”.

      So. I made an appointment with the woo practice in town. I am praying they will help me and not drop 1000 supplements on me instead, or even in addition.

      1. ..Kat..*

        This is ridiculous. Have you tried complaining to the physician who oversees her?

        1. Batshua*

          Nah, because I literally had just the one appointment with her. If she continues sucking, I will totally do that. Instead, my appointment with the woo practice provider is tomorrow, and I think my request for more testing and some T3 is not so unreasonable that we can’t just freakin’ try it.

  87. Job Searching in Jacksonville*

    So I’ve been thinking about starting a side hustle of social media marketing while I’m doing my job searching, but I don’t know the first thing about finding clients! I have done some research on how to figure out what to charge future clients as well as what services I want to offer, but any advice about finding clients or freelancing in general would be awesome!

    1. Crylo Ren*

      Upwork or a similar site may be a good place to start to build up a client base. I do email marketing as a side job and I’ve found a fair amount of opportunities there.

  88. Commentor Formerly Known as Still Looking*

    For some background see my posts on the 4/13 and 4/21 open threads.

    My story has a happy ending! I got a fantastic offer from a great company within hours of interviewing. I have never seen anyone move that fast. It was the polar opposite of my weird experience. I was so shocked at the speed and the offer itself I almost didn’t know what to say. I was waiting on some other interviews to be scheduled, and I was also very interested in those jobs, but I wasn’t going to chance stalling on a great offer for a job I want at a company I want to work at.

    I will probably never know what went on at that one company that left me flapping in the wind while actively soliciting new applicants, but I’m very happy with the overall outcome for me. Had they offered a few weeks ago I would have accepted. I think I probably dodged a bullet.

  89. Business Cat*

    I interviewed for a Documents Specialist in the Admissions Department at the university where I work, and 3 weeks later just found out the position was cancelled. I had a really fabulous interview, got on famously with both interviewers, and really felt like I had a shot. However, I saw a new Admissions Processor position available, applied to that, and e-mailed my interviewers to let them know, and they said they would pass my name along to the hiring committee. I currently work as a Contract Specialist and I think a lot of my experience here would easily translate to Admissions Processing. Any Admissions folks here? I’d love to know more about the work, pros and cons, what you love and what you love less about it. Thanks in advance for any input!

  90. bookwyrm*

    I’m trying to figure out my next career move. I coordinate fundraising events for a nonprofit in my current role (both low and high level tasks – invitations, vendors, and tracking RSVPs etc., but also work directly with trustees, dinner chairs, and donors, and reached the point where I am the primary solicitor for all dinner gifts). Previously I did admin and event planning work as well, ~8 years experience overall. Fundraising is very much not my thing however, so I want to get out of development. My background is in international relations, specifically Asia, and I would love to get back into that, or help coordinate international exchange programs.

    I’m feeling stuck though because so many jobs are either entry level, or a much higher jump that I don’t feel quite comfortable doing. I like being the number 2 person, I don’t want to be fully in charge of events (and trying to decide if I really want to stay in events, or do more program coordination or something along those lines). I’m also not good at the side of event planning that involves florals, lighting, overall design, etc. – I’m better with logistics and tracking details, and enjoy working with databases and Excel to pull information together. I also don’t have much experience with marketing, since we have a different team that handles that side of things in my current position, and that seems to be important to a lot of event-related jobs I’ve come across. I’ve thought about looking into the hotel side of events/diplomatic sales/etc., for example, although it seems like that could be a rather limiting move.

    This is pretty disjointed, but I guess I just wanted to throw this out there and see if anyone had ideas for types of jobs that might use similar skills or that I could move into that I may not have thought of. I browse a lot on Glassdoor, Idealist, and Indeed but am trying to branch out and find new types of jobs to consider.

      1. bookwyrm*

        I looked into it very briefly since I get a lot of unsolicited emails from companies trying to get me to take a PMP certification course. The certification put me off given the time and cost, but I’ll explore project management more – thank you for the suggestion!

        1. animaniactoo*

          Do NOT accept any of the offers for a PMP certificate – but go ahead and look around. There are different levels of project management, it sounds like what you’re looking for is more in the category of what used to be referred to as a Traffic Coordinator – the person who has all the details and works to make sure the whole is meshing and helping to adjust targets when things are delayed, to try and to keep the overall project on track.

          You might also want to look into data analysis or forecasting jobs, those seem like they would mesh well with your skill sets.

          1. bookwyrm*

            Being a “traffic coordinator” does sound like it could be interesting! My bosses said I do a great job of managing the details while also keeping the larger picture in mind and thinking ahead to flag potential issues. Thanks so much again for these ideas!

    2. stej*

      Project Management doesn’t always require a degree, but it has similar elements to event coordination, namely people-wrangling and lots of following up.

      If you like Excel and databases, a business analyst or data analyst role might suit you. These titles are just overall so vague, so do your research and read the descriptions. Go for the ones that fit and ignore the ones that don’t, but read all the postings. If you don’t know SQL, take a quick online course (I did Khan Academy) and see if you like it. That’ll give you a little leg up, too.

  91. Ann*

    What sort of things do you wear to get through the hot/humid summer months?

    I’m in tech, so our dress code is vaguely business casual. I wore a silk shell with a cardigan and thin dress pants yesterday and that seemed to work better than the linen shirt I’m wearing today. I think I’d like to get more silk shirts, but I’m not sure where (though I should probably look at Nordstrom Rack this weekend).

    Has anybody ever found dresses or skirts with pockets that work well for work? I feel like they’d be so much more comfortable, but I also don’t want to give up pockets.

    What do you do when you feel like you’re starting to sweat/smell? Sometimes I have to be outside for long periods of time and I definitely had issues with pit stains last summer. I was thinking maybe keeping baby wipes and deoderant in my work bag might help.

    1. CTT*

      Finding dresses/skirts with pockets is such a crapshoot because even if they have pockets they may not be big enough. It just takes a lot of looking and asking salespeople when you walk into a store specifically for items with pockets. Online, I’ve been really lucky with Boden’s dresses that have pockets; usually big enough to fit keys, phone, and cards (I imagine they would fit a normal-sized wallet; I have a larger pocketbook that wouldn’t fit in any sort of pocket). They’re pricey, but they have good sales.

      1. Ann*

        Ugh, I know what you mean about too-small pockets. The increasing size of my iphone in the bane of my existence. I’d forgotten to look at Boden, I’ve bought sweaters from them in the past, because I love that they’re not too thin, so I’ll definitely check out their dresses!

    2. Natalie*

      I recently bought a package of dress shields to preserve my shirts, and they’re amazing. They’re basically like a panty liner, but cut to fit in the arm seam of shirts. At the end of the day, just peel them off and throw them away. The only downside is that they don’t work well with sleeveless shirts or loose short sleeves since you can see them.

      Hand sanitizer also works well to de-stink in a pinch.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        If you use hand sanitizer for this and also shave your pits, make sure you shave the night before. Don’t shave them that morning and then slap that stuff on. Ask me how I know this, ow ow ow ow.

        Also, I read that putting on antiperspirant before you go to bed makes it work better. It gets absorbed into your skin overnight where it can really do the job. I tried it and it seems true. I still feel like I have to have a quick shower in the morning in super hot weather, mostly because my house is poorly insulated and temperature is hard to regulate, but YMMV.

      2. Ann*

        I’ll have to try these! I have some cotton and linen long sleeve shirts that I wear during the summer and it sounds like these will be perfect for them

    3. ANon.*

      I’m biased because I love them, but I find Madewell generally has great silk dresses that are easy to throw a cardigan over and call it a day. They also generally have nice silk shirts.

      1. Ann*

        I love Madewell, too. A lot of my winter wardrobe comes from them. I find their dresses to be hit or miss – a lot of them don’t work well for my body type, I think, but I’ll definitely take another look and them and look at their shirts.

        1. ANon.*

          If you like Madewell, I also recommend Sezane. Fair warning, though: they are quite a step up in price from Madewell.

    4. the_scientist*

      I work in a business casual office that trends towards the casual end of the spectrum and I basically live in dresses in the summer. I do tend to limit maxi dresses to casual Fridays, though. While I haven’t had great luck finding dresses with pockets, I do own a fun circle skirt with pockets from Uniqlo that I expect to wear at least once a week all summer! It was a recent purchase so it’s likely still in stores if you have one near you.

      To combat pit stains and stank I try to stick to cotton/cotton blends as much as possible. Polyester makes me both sweaty and stinky, which is too bad given that most women’s work tops are polyester or another artificial fabric. I also keep a stash of facial cleansing wipes and a travel-sized deodorant in my desk. Finally Uniqlo (again, sorry) makes very light undershirts that are made of a wicking material. They are tricky to fit under women’s workwear, unfortunately, but if you’re able to find a dress or top with short sleeves you could maybe make it work.

    5. bookwyrm*

      New York & Company has some decent work-appropriate dresses with pockets! Wearing one now.

    6. Ex-Academic, Future Accountant*

      I don’t have first-hand experience with them (yet), but the majority of eShakti’s dresses either have pockets or can have pockets added as a customization option. (Their thing is that you can choose the length, sleeve style, neckline, etc. of any item. So if you see a dress and think “I want that, except knee-length and with pockets”…you can do that.)

    7. The New Wanderer*

      I had serious issues with pitting out shirts any time of year so I’ve been using CertainDri deoderant. Other “clinical” grade OTC deos did nothing, this seems to work. Side effects include occasional itchiness and compensatory sweating in other places, but darned if my shirts don’t stay dry!

      I also brought in a spare top, something I could stash in a drawer and would work with most of my pants/skirts.

    8. LDP*

      I have some skirts from J.Crew Factory that have pockets and I LOVE them! As far as pocket size I can easily fit my iPhone inside the pocket without it sticking out, so I’d say they’re a good size. They’re also elastic waist so they’re incredibly comfortable, and if you stick to some of the more muted colors they could probably work in most office environments.

    9. Emily S.*

      For the sweating, the “advanced care” and “clinical protection”-style deodorants work well. I keep some in my desk for reapplication when necessary.

      Re: clothes, I’ve found some pretty sleeveless tops (mostly from TJ Maxx), which I layer under light 3/4-sleeve cardigans. At lunchtime, the sweater comes off.

    10. LilySparrow*

      I get sweaty around my waist, braline, etc, and find baby powder to be a lifesaver in summer. I put it on when dressing in the morning, which keeps the sweat at bay a little longer, and keep small bottles in my desk or car as well for touchups.
      I think it helps avoid the vicious circle of sweat making your clothes stick, which makes you hotter, so you sweat more, so they stick more, etc.
      I like the lavender kind, which doesn’t smell so diaperish.

  92. Anony-me*

    I have a coworker who does not seem to understand professional norms, and who has no boundaries whatsoever. Some examples: yesterday we had a major customer visit, for which I was primarily responsible. I came to the office early in case there were any last-minute crises or details that needed my attention. About thirty minutes before the arrival of the visitors, this coworker was at my desk, complaining about another coworker and explaining in great detail the dental problem that had led to her working from home the day before. She knew about the visit and knew of my involvement, but all of that seemed to take a backseat to her need to tell me about totally irrelevant issues. Today, as I was explaining a problem that was identified in yesterday’s visit and giving a person in our department detailed instructions about how to resolve the issue, the offending coworker came to my desk, hovered, and interrupted me no less than 3 times to point out obvious facts and/or her opinions, which were unhelpful and distracting.

    This is just the tip of the iceberg. This person lingers at my desk almost daily, trapping me in lengthy monologues about her boyfriend, his kids, their softball games, her family troubles, financial issues, home repairs…and I do not know her family, we’re not friends, and some of the stuff she shares is highly personal and embarrassing! She also breeds dogs, and one day launched into a detailed monologue about every gory detail of dog menstruation and dog sex. Fortunately, she was sitting at her own desk that day, and I shrunk behind my computer screen and tuned out while she continued talking to someone else. I call these “monologues” because she doesn’t care whether or not anyone is listening or responding. She just. needs. to. talk. You can continue typing, avoid eye contact, make small noises without actually replying to her, and she does not pick up on these hints. The only way to get her to stop talking is to physically walk away, or to tell her you can’t talk.

    In meetings, she interrupts people and talks over them. She provides endless unnecessary details and prolongs every conversation. It seems like she is driven by a primal need to be talking all the time. She has highly personal, loud phone conversations with her family at her desk. I actually had to pull her into a conference room one day after a long, loud, and highly personal phone call and tell her she simply couldn’t do it anymore, and she needs to take those calls in the break room or go outside, perhaps to her car. She now does that about half the time, but still makes no effort to lower her voice when yammering to her boyfriend about their wedding plans, or what to make for dinner, or her doctor’s appointment. She sits directly across from me and often mumbles complex questions to me while I’m working without any prior notice, which causes a much longer disruption. By the time I realize she’s talking to me, I have to ask her to repeat herself, then I still can’t compute, and I have to ask her to send me what she’s looking at so I can review it. In spite of this happening repeatedly, she continues to mumble her questions. Sometimes I ignore her, but it’s like she doesn’t learn from a “teaching moment” and handle it differently next time. She just keeps doing the same annoying things over and over.

    She sounds awful, right? Well, that’s the problem. She’s NOT awful. In spite of all of the above, she actually has a sweet disposition most of the time and comes across as very sensitive. She’s helpful and loves to get involved in new projects, and a lot of her tasks are painfully boring and tedious, and we would be in a world of hurt if we didn’t have someone who was willing to do all of that awful stuff. Because of this, I genuinely don’t want to offend her or cause trouble for her. And actually, I’m a really nice person. And very patient. But sometimes, her interruptions and endless diatribes make me want to absolutely scream.

    I know all the standard answers to this – pull her side, have a one-on-one chat, explain my feelings…but honestly, it’s almost like the problem is so huge and complex that one conversation won’t do it. She needs extensive counseling about professionalism. I’m not her boss and I’m not sure how many times I can “correct” her before she’ll get offended. Plus, I don’t relish the thought of having multiple, awkward conversations with her. I mentioned the extensive talking to our mutual boss, who said she had noticed it as well and has promised to keep an eye on it, but she’s too busy to really actively monitor it.

    Mostly I’m venting, but if anyone has dealt with this kind of person before, what the heck did you do? She’s such a weird mix of nice person/good worker/annoying person/bad worker that I have no idea how to consistently deal with her, and these issues are coming up on a daily basis. I literally added another wall to my cubicle to create a more visible separation between us, and I’ve considered moving so talking to me requires more effort on her part. Help!

    1. strawberries and raspberries*

      I worked with someone like this too- she seemed very sweet, called everyone “Mr./Miss,” etc. But she, unlike your coworker, was an incompetent moron. When she wasn’t on the phone with literally everyone in her family in birth order, she was misspelling clients’ names, bungling reports, delaying things getting in because she “didn’t know” if we could include certain information (spoiler: I told her we could months prior, multiple times), you name it. She wore her phone on a headset and she would also answer her phone while clients were sitting at her desk, which was really awful. Someone else in the office told her to limit her phone conversations, and she replied, “Don’t listen.”

      What I did was pull her aside and say that I couldn’t help but overhear her conversations because of the proximity to my desk and the volume of her voice, and that if she needs to make a personal call she should really be going outside the office or to another room to do it. She said, “I’m sorry I offended you, Miss Strawberries,” and I replied that she didn’t “offend” me, it was the optics of the situation- I didn’t want her to get in trouble if our president or board or a potential donor walked in and saw her on the phone while she was meant to be serving clients. If your person is really a sweet person and does good work, she’ll probably take it differently than mine did. (Eventually, mine was let go because our manager realized that there was a reason I was always the only one responding to her emails and handing in work on time.)

    2. Amtelope*

      You probably don’t have standing to fix the overarching problem with professionalism; your boss will need to address that, or not. But when it directly affects you, you need to stop hinting and start telling her directly what you want. “I can’t talk right now, I’m on a deadline/setting up for the X event/working.” “Wow, that is TMI about dog breeding. I’d rather not hear the gory details, thanks.” “Could you take this call outside? It’s really distracting.” “I’m talking to Anna right now, but I’ll come by your desk as soon as we’re done. (Followed by, “Can you give us a minute, please?” if she still doesn’t leave.)

      If you like this person, it may be worth trying to give her some attention at times when it’s not disruptive. Ask “How are things going with you?” when you actually have ten minutes to talk, then say “Well, I have to get back to work now, so let’s talk later!” But you’re going to have to be firm to protect your ability to work without her distracting you.

    3. Cotton Headed Ninny Muggins*

      I just get the feeling that you need to spell it out for her that you are unavailable for chats and interruptions. I think you need to tell her “I can’t talk right now, sorry.” and “I’m in the middle of a conversation with X, can I chat with you later?”.

      I would also personally mention that she is interrupting, sort of how one would while training a child not to interrupt, but I’m sure that would be rude, so maybe don’t do that.

    4. Close Bracket*

      “Sometimes I ignore her, but it’s like she doesn’t learn from a ‘teaching moment’ and handle it differently next time.”

      Stop expecting her to be psychic and actually say something. That is what will make it a teaching moment. If you can’t speak to her at a given time, say, “I can’t stop what I am doing right now. Keep working on it on your own, and I will come by to check up on you in X amount of time.”

      That works in the moment. If you need an overall change in her behavior, you are going to have to sit down with her one on one, point out the pattern, and tell her how you would like to do things differently.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      Sometimes nice people just don’t work out. Try to keep in mind that it’s not up to you to prevent her failure. This helps to move to the next step. Target 2-3 things. You can chose the 2-3 things on whatever basis you want, such as the frequency of occurrence or the ease of fixing the problem. The important thing here is to let all else go, decide to ignore it and just focus on these 2-3 things.

      So I might chose the most annoying habit and one easy to fix habit. This limit is for MY sanity, not hers. When you see those behaviors you can make a similar statement each time. “Coworker, we are talking about teapots now, not canine reproductive issues [insert whatever other topic she is on at the moment].” OR “Would you please take your personal call somewhere else?” A key point here is that you plan out what you will say and say it pretty much the same way each time.

      Sometimes people talk excessively because they just have way too much pent up energy. Talking can release energy OR it can energize a person, hard to know which way this one is going. If she expresses interest in jogging or biking or similar activity it might be a strategic investment of your time to encourage her with that activity. Or if she talks about not getting enough sleep at night perhaps you can encourage her to look into that. What I like about this part, is that it’s friendly conversation where you are not the “bad guy” telling her to “stop it” all the time. You have a topic where you can say an encouraging word.

    6. Thlayli*

      you say she will stop when you tell her you can’t talk.

      Seems like there’s a pretty obvious solution here.

  93. Conflicting Employee Needs*

    How should we handle employees’ needs/wants/preferences when they are in conflict with each other?

    For example:

    My employer (a nonprofit) is undergoing a review of our dress code policy, with the intent of making it more explicit/strict/closely monitored. This was requested by a group of employees of color who feel that they have been discriminated against for their choice of casual clothing. Our current dress code doesn’t prohibit what they were wearing, so they thought it was unfair (and potentially racist) that they were being looked down upon for their casual dress.

    The hope is that a more clear and strict dress code will make explicit the expectations that are currently implicit. This is good news, but the result will be that everyone has to dress more formally than has been our current practice. Many folks — including me! — significantly value the flexibility in our dress code and changing it will make our work lives less enjoyable. (For example, I’m currently wearing skinny jeans, a blouse, and a blazer. I don’t know whether that will make the cut in the updated dress code but it would bum me out if I had to wear dress slacks instead.)

    So I’m interested in how folks think about how to navigate conflicting needs of employees. This example involves potential racial discrimination so there is extra importance on getting it right, but I’m also interested in the wider question. What do you think?

    1. Temperance*

      FWIW, I would be super annoyed if I had the ability to wear jeans (JEANS!) to work and it was taken away because a group of colleagues couldn’t follow the rules. We did have an issue with a group of women in my office who tried to claim that spandex faux-jeggings weren’t “really” jeans and were dress pants (lol no), so the office manager sent around a PPT with examples of acceptable clothing. It was kind of humiliating, TBH, that adults couldn’t figure this shit out without a visual aid.

      1. Natalie*

        It sounds like they were following the rules: “Our current dress code doesn’t prohibit what they were wearing, so they thought it was unfair (and potentially racist) that they were being looked down upon for their casual dress.”

        1. Temperance*

          I’m wondering, though, if this meant that the group was wearing things that weren’t appropriate but weren’t also specifically banned, which is what the women in my office were doing.

          1. Conflicting Employee Needs*

            I believe it was something in between these two. They were not breaking any rules, felt they were being perceived poorly, and thought that wasn’t reasonable given that they were following the existing rules.

          2. Natalie*

            Even in that case, I think you have to lay the response at the feet of management. They have a lot of options to handle what sounds like a legitimate misunderstanding or cultural difference besides going extra formal, but if they do it’s hardly the employees’ fault.

            1. Conflicting Employee Needs*

              Absolutely. My question wasn’t about who to blame, or even really about this situation in particular. I’m more interested in, generally, how we all should handle situations when employees’ needs/wants/preferences are in conflict with each other.

    2. MechanicalPencil*

      I think so long as the dress code isn’t policing how things like hair is worn, it should be fine? I’m not seeing a connection between a dress code and racial policing, but I’ve also only been subject to the rules about not having crazy hair colors on that end. If your company is just wanting to standardize so that everyone is on the same page about acceptable business wear practices, that’s one thing. If this is an attempt to change the expectation from jeans are fine every day to suddenly everyone needs to shop for work appropriate slacks? I’d be a bit annoyed also.

      My current company defines things into an “allowed/not allowed” list and doesn’t even specifically list appearance outside of saying that hair/facial hair should be professional in appearance. Allowed includes slacks or skirt, starched shirt, polo, blouse or sweater (no tshirts). Not allowed: jeans*, shorts (or any kind) or leggings. Spaghetti straps or equivalently revealing or short item. Flip flops or any beachwear.

      *The caveat is that on Fridays we can wear jeans. And I’m wearing a jersey knit shirt currently, but it’s not like one of those freebie blood drive tshirts. I’m a regular rebel in that regard.

    3. Bea W*

      It seems like the issue is a group of employees of color feels discriminated against. Changing the dress code probably won’t address that issue. If there is a wider workplace cultural issue of bias against race, it will continue to show up in other ways. I wish I had any suggestions for how to address this in a way that would be more effective than changing the dress code. Maybe other people can speak to that.

      1. Conflicting Employee Needs*

        Absolutely. My org is very proactively working towards racial equity in its practices and is much farther along than most places I’ve worked… but it’s an old, establishment organization that is as mired in white supremacy as any of us.

        1. Friday*

          Any way you could tackle this as a committee, and make sure the committee is racially diverse? It’d be a great step to getting everyone’s buy-in on the new rules.

    4. animaniactoo*

      Why does it have to be more formal vs simply codifying what counts as “casual, allowable” wear?

      i.e.:

      • No athletic wear
      • Plain t-shirts in good condition with no graphics are fine.
      • Sleeveless dress shirts are acceptable, tanktops are not.
      • Sneakers or running shoes are fine as long as they are not brightly colored.

      ?

      To a certain extent, there is likely a kind of discrimination going in which the “casual” clothes that one group owns and feels comfortable going out (and therefore working in) is different from the comfort/preferences that the majority has. Towards that, I would also review *why* the dress code exists. What does it affect if people wear athletic clothing or graphic tees? Why? Should it? Or is there a “majority cultural norm” here that’s being pushed when it doesn’t need to?

      1. Temperance*

        When it comes to things like graphic tees, though, you would have to police what slogans and pictures are allowed. That’s why so many orgs and schools outright ban them.

        IDK, my work clothes and my social fun clothes are different, and that’s okay.

        1. animaniactoo*

          Eh, it’s easy enough to say “No explicit sexual messages; no violence, religion, politics, or profanity.”

          1. Temperance*

            But that doesn’t cover all possible shirts that aren’t appropriate for work, which is why slogan-free makes sense. For example, it wouldn’t be appropriate to show up in a Tinkerbell or Looney Tunes shirt in a professional office, even on casual day.

          2. KayEss*

            A former coworker of mine, when she became extremely dissatisfied with her job (and the admittedly toxic office environment), took to using her seniority and the fact that everyone else who could do her job had been laid off to get away with wearing graphic tees on days when she had no outside meetings. Her favorite just had “NO” in huge letters, which falls well within the boundaries you laid out, but is still wildly inappropriate for a collaborative work environment.

    5. Q*

      Maybe you should look at the broader issue of why this group of people feel like they are being targeted. You admit “Our current dress code doesn’t prohibit what they were wearing” so their clothing shouldn’t even be an issue.

      1. Thlayli*

        I gotta say I’m agreeing with this. I don’t think it’s the dress code that’s the problem.

    6. Anony-me*

      I actually don’t see this as a case of conflicting needs at all. This really boils down to preferences. Needs would be, “I need to wear pants vs. a skirt because it makes navigating in my wheelchair easier”, or “I need to wear a head covering due to my religion”. What you have here is a classic case of people who don’t understand professional dress, guess wrongly, and then claim discrimination when they’re called on it. As you’re learning, this results in a few bad apples spoiling the dress code for everyone. I would encourage you to ask whoever sets your dress code to set some clear expectations around the type of jeans that are acceptable (dark wash, trouser cut, whatever) rather than flatly outlawing jeans. Also, this is just my opinion, but I personally don’t feel that skinny jeans fit into the category of office-appropriate, except maybe on casual days. Most skinny jeans are tight, made of stretch fabric, and closely resemble leggings.

      1. Natalie*

        What you have here is a classic case of people who don’t understand professional dress, guess wrongly, and then claim discrimination when they’re called on it.

        Isn’t it just as possible that they unconsciously being held to a different standard?

      2. Conflicting Employee Needs*

        I don’t agree with this at all.

        The need in this case is for all employees to be treated fairly and consistently. That’s running up against a preference of many employees to have a flexible dress code.

        As for my skinny jeans, I assure you that they are appropriate in my office.

        1. Kj*

          I think skinny jeans can look more professional, as they are more tailored. But I don’t wear too-tight clothes, so that helps.

    7. Zathras*

      I think you do need to identify for sure whether the problem is really the dress code. If the white guys are wearing cargo shorts and graphic tees but getting praised/promoted, while people of color and women are considered unprofessional in whatever equally casual outfit they choose, your problem is not the dress code. You might be able to eliminate some of the symptoms by forcing everyone to wear khakis and polos, and maybe that’s not a bad thing, but they are just going to pop out somewhere else.

      I like the idea of a diverse committee working on or at least reviewing the new dress code.

      As an aside, I’m pretty sure about 75% of my company would quit if they told us we could no longer wear jeans to work. But I work in tech and the vast majority of us are not customer facing, so… *shrug*.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Yeah, I would want to trace the problem back through. If this is all coming off of one manager then that manager needs to be spoken to. It’s my belief that we cannot possibly write specifically enough to cover every foreseeable situation. It’s just not possible. What we do get is something that looks like the US government wrote it: A thousand page dress code policy document that NO one reads. This puts the company right back to where it is right now.

        It would be more to the point to make sure that each manager enforces the dress code even-handedly. If person X cannot wear shorts, then person Y should not be wearing shorts either.

    8. Chaordic One*

      I wonder if these employees are low paid. Often employers have rather unrealistic expectations of how employees should dress, given the employees’ financial situation. Having to suddenly and unexpectedly spend money on more “professional” looking clothes might really be a significant financial hardship for some people and I can certainly understand there being pushback from them. I kind also understand some employees feeling like they can’t really be themselves when wearing more “professional” clothes.

  94. Feeling unappreciated*

    How do I stop myself from taking it personally when I’m overlooked for things?

    I’ve been in my current role for around 8 months. I work very closely with a team that is responsible for a lot of flashy, cool stuff but my role is less on the front-lines. I’m the person who works behind the scenes to pull the strings and make sure the gears keep turning behind all of it.

    I generally enjoy my job, and my boss seems to think I’m doing great, but we’ve had a couple of big product launches and my grand-boss has often scheduled some internal appreciation events (happy hours and sportsball events and the like) to celebrate the team after the launch. But for this latest launch he excluded me from the invite and I have reason to believe he’s left me off of the “great job team!” company-wide emails as well.

    I guess because he’s unaware that I had a hand in any of it, even though I contributed in meetings with him about the launches, he’s seen my completed work in support of each launch, and I’m reasonably certain that my boss mentions the work I did when he’s met 1:1 with grand-boss.

    In general I have a pretty big problem with the way my job is perceived here and this latest slight isn’t helping. I took this job from someone who moved to a lateral position and this person has admitted that he *hated* having my job because he thought it was boring and didn’t have the mind for it. And when I’m in meetings with other departments that haven’t met me before, they’ll often look at me quizzically and bluntly say, “What do you do again? Why are you here?” and when I tell them, the usual response is “oh, that sucks, I’m sorry you have to be tasked with that”.

    I’m not going to lie – this sucks and it makes me feel like garbage. I accept that my particular job is going to get me overlooked a lot of the time, but it really hurts when others who aren’t as involved in our projects still get invited and I’m not. And it really annoys me when people express pity or disdain for the job I do because it’s not as exciting as the work my coworkers do.

    I’m not knocking my coworkers nor my boss. They’re great, and for the most part when they’ve realized I’ve been overlooked for things, they’ve seemed to feel genuinely guilty and some of my peers have even offered to raise the flag to the grand-boss that I should be included and recognized more. But I never know if anything actually comes of it, and anyway it’s not really their place to stick up for me like that. I don’t know what, if anything, I should do about it. Help?

    1. Temperance*

      Talk to your boss! Ask what you can do to get recognition. Ask how you can make your contributions more widely known!

    2. Business Cat*

      I can’t offer any industry-specific advice, but I think it might be worth considering to take people up on their offers to speak to the bosses about including you, or having that broader conversation with the bosses yourself. It’s a reasonable ask. Because the work you do is so behind-the-scenes, it’s likely one of those roles where people will only notice it if things are going badly. The work you do is important, and the managers do need to know that being recognized for your work is valuable to you and to your ability to continue in this position. You do really want the recognition, so don’t let a sense of shame prevent you from being more vocal about being included. You’re part of the team, you work is an invaluable part of their success, and you have a completely valid desire to be included in their celebrations. You can decide having that conversation isn’t worth putting yourself out there and being vulnerable, but considering how much it is impacting your morale, I’d venture that it’s worth talking about.

  95. Lady Jay*

    How ’bout a thread for the funny mistakes we made at our first job (or early jobs)?

    I’ll go first. I took a year between HS and college, during which I cashiered at a local hardware store. It was my first real job (beyond some swim instructing at the local YMCA, which is obviously a very different flavor of job), and I had no idea what job norms were. This was made evident when I used a sticky note to cover up my actual name on my nametag, with the name of a character from the Lord of the Rings universe (Finduilas, if you must know; it wasn’t even a well-known character! I was a nerd.)

    Got called into my manager’s office and told to take that down. I did, and worked for some time longer there, eventually parting on good terms when I left for college. But I find my naivete about the situation hilarious (and mortifying) to look back on.

    What stories do y’all have?

    1. Mockingjay*

      College internship. I had to call manufacturers to collect Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS) on chemical products we used as part of a safety initiative. (This was obviously pre-internet.)

      I called one contact listed on the product sheet. I woke the poor man out of a sound sleep. I never thought to account for time zones. I was mortified. (Although why his personal phone was listed on the product info sheet remains a mystery.)

      He did mail us the required sheet, in spite of the rude awakening.

    2. Temperance*

      I worked at a Cinemark in high school and college, and one of our favorite things to do was to trade name tags, because we HATED when people would call us by our names (usually to whine about something). We got in trouble for that.

      Oh, also, we worked with these two jerks who used to give our boss their weekly availability, which of course was joint availability, because they only had one car. This basically meant that they picked all the best shifts, and for some reason got them, and the rest of us were stuck dealing with weekend nights and getting sent home early when it was dead. So, long story short, the rest of us decided that we were going to throw out their “availability” sheet for the week, and took turns doing so. We all got reprimanded, but since the entire crew did it (besides said jerks), they couldn’t actually punish us, AND they stopped allowing the jerks to do so. LOL

    3. Emi.*

      In my first job, we had casual Fridays, meaning jeans and/or sports jerseys.

      I wore … a spirit jersey. And leggings. Only they weren’t proper leggings; they were more like footless sweater tights.

    4. Business Cat*

      Ugh. I worked at a local boutique/sandwich shop in college, and on one occasion a small group came to the sandwich shop to celebrate a birthday. We put some effort into the celebration, putting out balloons and spending more time and attention on the table than was the norm. They didn’t tip, and at the time I was incredibly put out. I made a Facebook status that vaguely referenced the situation, griping about not being tipped. Understandably, my manager was mortified and made me take the post down, and I got a stern talking to about it. It was definitely a lesson learned on my part and I have not posted anything but happy news about work ever since.

    5. LibraryRaptor*

      I don’t know if it’s funny but I “quit” my first job by trading my last shift on the current week and then never coming in to look at next week’s schedule. Luckily (I guess?) the place was staffed primarily with high schoolers and they must have dealt with that a lot.

    6. EddieSherbert*

      I worked in a café for a couple years in high school and I broke (not one! but) two laminators by putting the laminate with the “wrong side out” while making a name tag… Because I also lost my nametag multiple times.

      1. Schnoodle*

        I worked in accounting on a work study grant in my undergraduate days, and once was cutting out a bunch of stuff, I forget what. It was not straight, despite my efforts.

        My boss told me I was no longer allowed scissor duty, and she was serious…

    7. Schnoodle*

      I had an HR internship, it was unpaid but still some experience and it was literally 5 hours a week, maybe. And I was still in school.

      One of my first days, I wear what usually always got lots of compliments and was very pretty. Why I thought this would be work wear, I don’t know now. But the line was blurred to be then.

      It was thankfully a dress that went to my knees, but it was a halter top dress, and being an A cup I’d go bra less. I did wear a cropped cardigan with is but it was knitted, so you could see through it so yeah…my whole back exposed and no bra. That’s HR for you. I got a few looks and started feeling uncomfortable and it then clicked. Finished my day and dressed better the rest of the time.

    8. Environmental Compliance*

      “Internship” for a couple summers, starting the summer between high school and college. It was really a “let’s collect high school/college kids of the people who work here and have them do general maintenance to the facility” type job. Paid really well though for what it was. This was at a manufacturing facility.

      1. My dad ended up supervising all the interns because the guy normally in charge of it was on a PIP for threatening people. So that was interesting. (Guy did not interact with interns.)

      2. Half the time, there were only about 3 of us out of 10 that my dad could find at any given point in time. A couple kids got fired (a first!) because they were sleeping in the backs of the semi-trucks.

      3. Ended up with the 3 of us that were trustworthy sorting out the abandoned office building that hadn’t been touched since the 50’s. We found the coolest stuff there! Like old jackets, books, it was like a little history capsule. We had two Gators and a whole slew of big rolly garbage carts to clear this building out with. It was about half a mile to the dumpster, so obviously the best solution is to rope the carts to the Gator like a train, fill them all up, and take them over en masse. Worked really well for a couple days until we got a little too speedy in the Gator and overturned a couple carts. Which, of course, was when the company President came by. Luckily he thought it was pretty entertaining.

      4. The Gators got parked in the back of the building by where the semis came in to pick up/unload. I was in the process of pulling a Gator in to park it, and one of the Sleepers jumped out of a semi and scared the beejesus out of me, which led to me getting into a head on collision with a concrete wall. Luckily, nothing was damaged.

      5. Decided I could never work in a factory job when I managed to fall asleep for nearly 3 hours but was still managing to deburr the tiny parts I was assigned to deburr. I woke up to a nearly full box of deburred parts when I started with an empty one.

    9. CM*

      At my first professional job, my boss described a project and said, “Do you think you could do that?” I said, “Um… not really?” She had to gently tell me that it was my job and I needed to do it, and her question wasn’t really a question.

      At my first high school job (at a movie theater), about half the employees got fired en masse for drinking in the parking lot during breaks. I was offered drugs and alcohol by coworkers but said no… glad I didn’t make that mistake! (Honestly, I didn’t say no out of professional ethics, I just felt weird about doing that stuff with people I didn’t really know.)

    10. It’s all good*

      My first fast food job I filled an order for ice tea. I only put one scoop of ice (as I was trained for the other drinks) but by the time the customer got it the ice had melted. I had not had iced tea I guess. The customer FLIPPED OUT. Of course I was then told to fill the cup with ice then pour the tea. It seems like not a big deal now but it at the time I was mortified.

    11. AdAgencyChick*

      How about when I was at a major conference and I had forgotten to silence my phone, and in the middle of a talk being given by some very prim-and-proper bigwigs in the field, my boss calls me…

      …and my ringtone is “Self Control” by Laura Branigan?

    12. The New Wanderer*

      My first professional job, I was assigned to do a presentation on the project I was working on. First presentation ever so I did a practice run in front of my office. It went pretty badly (I froze early on and almost ran out of the room) but I got through it.

      Then my manager talked to me afterward and kept asking me questions about this or that aspect of the project. What she meant was, I should make sure to address these things and explain why I considered them and chose another option. What I heard was, you didn’t do your job, did you even think about this or that. So I reacted like a brat, giving short answers and staring at the floor and clearly giving off signs of being offended. To her credit she didn’t react at all to my demeanor.

      My supervisor gave me a talking-to afterwards, which was humiliating but deserved. When I got over myself, I went and apologized to my manager and everything was fine after that, but man, that was a rough couple of hours.

    13. Colleen*

      I worked as a sous chef and busperson at a family restaurant. My boss and I had been having discussions about my salary on and off for a bit. I decided to bring it up again in front of a co-worker while the three of us were prepping for service. I still remember the look on my co-worker’s face: he was horrified. I knew, immediately, that I had said something wrong. I stopped talking to him for a long, long time after that.

    14. Cedrus Libani*

      I was a college intern; it was my first day at Chocolate Teapots, Inc. My boss showed me to my workbench, and asked me to make a simple chocolate bowl. Sure!

      Then I checked my supply cabinet. There was nothing in there but a large jug of chocolate syrup. Okay, so this is a HARD test…fine then, challenge accepted. I was 20, and would have jumped in the chocolate grinder before I let my new colleagues see me sweat.

      A few days later, I knocked on the boss’ door and presented him with the bowl. I explained how I had processed the syrup to isolate and reconstitute the chocolate solids. His eyebrows migrated towards the ceiling. Okay, you clearly know your way around a chocolate lab. But…you do know you could have saved a lot of work by using chocolate chips instead? Yes, but all I had was this syrup.

      Boss facepalmed. Follow me, I’m going to blow your mind. He opened a door I hadn’t noticed before. There was a room with every kind of chocolate you could possibly want, stacks of it – and inches from my nose, enough chocolate chips to feed half the town. D’oh.

      I learned some things that day. Among other things, I still make a point of trying to provide basic context when I ask about something outside my expertise, to make it easier for people to stop me if I’m asking the wrong question. I’d been all over the shop, trying to scrounge up parts for my chocolate syrup dehydrator – but because all I’d said was “do you have a fan I could borrow”, nobody gave me the answer I really needed, which was “the chocolate chips are over there”.

  96. AdAgencyChick*

    Venting: a recruiter contacted me this week about a job that would be a promotion for me. I’m not looking for a new job, but because it would be a promotion, I agreed to at least talk to him.

    Dude would not let up on trying to make me name a salary requirement no matter how many times I redirected it back at him to ask for a range. He’s not legally allowed to ask me what I make any more, but he was super pushy on getting a number out of me. Dude, you called me, and you obviously know what the budget is for the position, whereas I have not been job hunting and therefore I haven’t done my homework on market rates for this job. He gave me this whole song and dance about how some people are in it for the money but others might want to take a hit to have opportunities to do more, blah blah. (I should have realized that this was code for “our budget for this position is shitty.”)

    I finally just said, “I make $X and since I’m not looking to move necessarily, I would want a pretty substantial increase to move. At which point he said his absolute top range was $X minus 6 and I responded with, “yeah, it doesn’t make sense for us to keep talking.”

    Why couldn’t he have just given me his damn range instead of pushing me over and over about it? He should have been able to guess based on the salary he wants to pay and the level of experience I have that I was going to be on the top end of his budget if I even fit into it at all, so I don’t see how he was going to save any money by making me name a number first.

    Ugh.

    1. CM*

      You’re right, that sucks. In any situation, but especially when they’re trying to recruit you.

      In hindsight, I think you could have said, “I would need at least $X+15 to move,” or “I’m not interested in talking any more without hearing a salary range first.”

      1. AdAgencyChick*

        I think even naming $X+15 might have been lowballing myself at certain agencies though!

        That’s what I kept trying to tell him — “You have more information than I have right now. That’s why I want you to tell me what you have in mind.” He would. Not. Budge.

    2. Schnoodle*

      I love the comment “some are in it for the money.”

      Like, who works and doesn’t want the paycheck? I mean, sure, enjoying the job, autonomy, responsibility, etc whatever you like about working is great. But it’s icing on the cake. And the cake is made of money.

      We got bills yo!

    3. Rusty Shackelford*

      He gave me this whole song and dance about how some people are in it for the money

      What, people work for MONEY? What is this nonsense?

    5. BRR*

      I’ve had this happen to be before too. I wish I was badass enough to say ,”I don’t think you understand how this works. You reached out to me. You need to give me the salary range.”

  97. MechanicalPencil*

    Today has been a horrific migraine day. I’m really not even sure why I dragged myself into the office, except it was out of blind, sheer stubbornness. Does anyone have any tricks/tips/advice for how to handle a migraine at the office? I’m running out of ideas.

    1. Temperance*

      I have no advice, but I’m in the same boat. I’m hoping to sneak out of here early and take a nap (and some meds). Good luck.

    2. Business Cat*

      I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this! When I was still having regular migraines at work, my best efforts were spent slowly and deliberately doing the easiest tasks on my docket. Make lists and stick to them like glue so the migraine haze won’t completely derail your day. Drink lots of clear fluids, stay cool, and generally take it as easy as possible. And don’t stick it out until you’re unable to drive just to prove something, GO HOME if you know you need to and rest.

    3. soupmonger*

      Sympathies! Been there, many times. Do you have anywhere you could go for half an hour? I found in my old job that if I took decent painkillers, had a cup of tea and then lay in the dark (I used our first aid room) that would either help, or tel me I needed to go home. Do you use sumatriptan? Taken early enough, it can stop a migraine (but it does leave you in the post-migraine zonk).

    4. Teapot librarian*

      Go home if you can. If you can’t go home but you do have an office with a door, close the door and lie down. And definitely what Business Cat says about doing the easiest stuff on your list.

      Feel better!!

  98. anonmanager*

    So years reviews are coming up, and I was worried about my own… until I saw the self evaluations of the people that *I* need to review! Now I’m gearing up for some difficult conversations. One should go well as I get to tell someone they are better than they think they are and if they could just speak up I could push for them to get promoted next year. But I have to tell one person that the areas of concern are more concerning to me than he thinks they are, and convey to another one that he has no concept of how much more he could be doing. Have any of you dealt with someone super junior who thought they were already the best in reviews before? How did it go—did they take the reality check well, did they wind up leaving, how did it work out? I’ve read Alison’s advice in previous articles about how to address it and it all seems fine, but I can’t help but worry about this being the beginning of the end with an employee who will feel undervalued if he actually believes himself to be as good as he rated himself.

    1. AdAgencyChick*

      Not in reviews specifically, since I ended up leaving the company before it was time for his first formal review, but I did have an indirect report at my last job who was super into himself. He would ask for assignments way beyond what he was capable of, while trying to get out of the scut work that comes with his very junior role.

      I told his direct manager to make him aware of the problem. He (the indirect report, not the manager between us) took it quite defensively and didn’t really change. Part of me wishes I had talked to him about it myself — in addition to his direct boss, not as a replacement, to impress on him that the issues were constant and serious enough to have attracted the negative attention of middle/senior management.

      This kid’s resume crossed my desk a few months ago at my current company. I nixed it and told the recruiter to leave him severely alone.

      1. AdAgencyChick*

        That being said — for your situation I think Alison has some excellent scripts for delivering negative feedback, and not only that, but also telling someone that they need to accept feedback in a constructive manner, in case the person becomes defensive or shuts down.

        1. AdAgencyChick*

          (and by Alison I meant “Alison, in her book”…time to quit replying to myself now!)

      2. anonmanager*

        The funny thing about this is, this guy doesn’t act like that at all! I was super shocked by the self-eval, came completely out of left field. The guy in general is super cooperative, enthusiastic, his great attitude has been his biggest strength because he’s still working on being able to handle work at a high level. He’s very task-based as opposed to project-based, not capable (yet) of handling how to balance multiple things himself over time, easily distracted, could have a higher level of output in general. So based on this we’ve been tailoring what type of assignments we give him, giving him bite-sized chunks we think he can handle, and this makes me think he doesn’t realize that he’s getting the dumbed-down version of the job because he’s perceived as not able to handle the whole thing. I worry about that great attitude going away when he realizes how we see him :(

        1. Fairly Odd*

          Has he been getting clear, direct feedback on this throughout from his manager? It shouldn’t come as a surprise in performance evaluations.

          1. anonmanager*

            He’s been getting clear feedback that’s tailored to the tasks he’s assigned, but hasn’t addressed the fact that there’s a whole tier that hasn’t been assigned because he’s not ready for it yet. That seemed fine and appropriate until we found out that he sees himself as having completely mastered the job and ready for a promotion. The baseline understanding of generally being on the same page just seems to not be there.

            1. Fairly Odd*

              So no, then. He hasn’t been getting good feedback on the bigger picture stuff that would let him contextualise his performance effectively. That means this stuff you’re concerned about is at least as much his manager’s fault as his. He should have been told that there are concerns about his output rate, his ability to handle multiple tasks concurrently and his level of distraction. He should have been being coached on these aspects. It’s hardly surprising he doesn’t have a good grasp of overall performance if he hasn’t been given the necessary feedback.

              Do you have standing to bring this up with his manager?

              1. Thlayli*

                Yes this sounds like this whole situation is his managers fault not his. And yes, if you jump this on him with absolutely no warning after leading him to believe he was doing well and was going to get a promotion, he will be rightly devastated and will probably feel cheated and start looking for another job.

              2. AdAgencyChick*

                It doesn’t sound like there were concerns, though! He was handling the job at a junior level well, so it sounds like there was no need to tell him he needed to improve until he made it clear that he thinks he’s ready to be more senior.

                I wouldn’t wait until the guy’s review to tell him — approach him now. I’d frame the conversation in terms of doing well at your current job, which is to do X, Y, and Z, but your self-evaluation indicates that you think your work is at a level beyond that. In order to actually be at that level, here’s what ELSE you would need to do.

                And I’d tell him that although he’s not there yet, with diligent work and appropriate training, he could be there in X amount of time, so that he knows what he has to do to get there. (Only if you think he’ll be capable of it someday, of course.)

              3. anonmanager*

                I definitely have the standing, and since I’ll be sitting in his review (I’m not his direct manager but I work with him a lot) we’ll definitely discuss this. But AdAgencyChick’s got the right end of it—the bigger picture was so very obvious, that he was a junior level employee handling the most junior work in the most junior way, that it wasn’t obvious to management it needed explaining. For the context that he does know—he sits next to someone with 5 more years of experience than he has, and they have the same title. We’re ready to talk to her about advancing, and I’m frankly shocked that just that piece of context doesn’t contextualize things for him. He sees the work she does, the pace she does it at, and knows they’re at the same title level (there are very few formal levels here). If he thinks he has a chance at being advanced before or at the same time as her, that is shockingly naive.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      I really hate those self-evaluation things. People put down whatever, whatever. You maybe taking this way too seriously and you might just have a couple people who do not do well with self-evaluation forms. Don’t gear up for a tense conversation that may not be called for.
      FWIW, any time I have filled out a self-evaluation form I have been muttering to myself all the way through it, “Quit wasting my time. It does not matter what I think about how well I do my job. It only matters what the boss thinks.”

      Before you dive into conversation too far ask them if they have had much experience with self-evalution forms and ask about their general approach to filling one out. The answers here might tell you all you need to know.

    3. Thlayli*

      Personally I think self reviews are a load of bollox. I give myself full marks pretty much on principle because it’s not my job to talk myself out of a raise. I think the main reason companies do self reviews is so they can figure out who has low enough confidence that they can manage to screw them over. I’m not falling for that. Your employee may feel similarly.

      1. anonmanager*

        Well I can assure you that at least some of us in management take it more seriously than that. The way I look at it is, we spend all of our time trying to fulfill a ton of complex obligations to clients that involve mobilizing teams of different sizes and strengths—we try to tailor those assignments as much as we can to the interests and skills of each employee. There are a bunch of reasons we don’t always get it right, but we don’t want one of them to be just plain not knowing which types of assignments the employees would prefer or which skills they would like to develop more. This is a chance to reset our aim every year in case it’s drifted, or have serious conversations if there’s a real mismatch between how we see someone and how they see themselves.

        1. Thlayli*

          what you are talking about definitely does not happen via any self-evaluation process I’ve ever been involved in. If you want to know what you’re employees would be interested in doing more of, what they want to do less of, and where they would like to get more training, just flipping ask them! Getting someone to fill out a 3 page form giving themselves marks in a bunch of different areas and then tying it to a raise is in no way the same thing as asking someone if they prefer teapot painting or spout glazing.

  99. SpaceNovice*

    Update on the phone tech screening: I passed, and the stuff they’re working on is very interesting! I have a series of in person interviews that includes a Java coding test and discussing the projects I’ve worked on for other companies next Friday. It’ll probably include some behavioral questions, too.Thank you for the advice!

    I’ll be studying up on my Java skills, including general programming skills and coding challenges. This place sounds like a really good fit and would help me gain the skills I want to expand beyond Java. A ~10 minute commute is going to change my life if I get this position. Update to come!

      1. SpaceNovice*

        You know it’s a potential great fit when the interviewer shows one of the things he worked on and then you both proceed to nerd out about it.

  100. So Confused*

    I am reaching the end of my rapidly fraying rope and I’ve only been in this position for six weeks.

    I was hired as the bookkeeper/accountant/HR person/office manager/general factotem for a start up. I have had nothing but praise and compliments on the work I am doing and they have been very very impressed with the money I had been saving the company. In six weeks, I negotiated over $10K in savings on immediate invoices and negotiated a further $20K in savings in future invoices. This doesn’t count using “shopper savvy”–looking for deals on paper (got a case of paper for $49.99….had a 20% off coupon and the paper had a $40 rebate so Office Depot effectively paid us a penny to buy a case of paper!), etc.

    On Monday of this week, the wife of the President of the company (she is not an employee of the organization) decided she needs to be more involved and reassigned the majority of my duties to a not hired yet receptionist. They even gave her the HR duties which I really don’t understand. Suppose someone comes to her with a problem that requires a confidential office? Is she going to conduct that conversation at the front desk? I’m not giving up my office. I’ve got checks and credit cards in here, as well as my own personal property. Once the wife started sticking her nose into everything, suddenly saving money didn’t matter.

    The CEO is checking the company’s interests in Africa, but prior to my employment he had a chat with the President and told him to keep his wife out of the business. She had harassed the former bookkeeper after hours so much that the poor girl walked out. Every night this week, I have been dealing with her emails to my personal home email address. With the first one, I respectfully requested that she use my work email to contact me about work issues, that I didn’t appreciate her appropriating my home time (I have a very sick rescue cat in my spare room–vet appt tomorrow–and he requires a lot of my time and attention and he also needs me to be calm and not upset). She refused to stop emailing me at home.

    One of the partners is encouraging me to send an email to the CEO in Africa and tell him about all of this. I really want to, but also really don’t think I should be bothering him in Africa with this. I tried to talk to the President about how much she is affecting my ability to do my job, but he cut me very rudely with a look on his face I didn’t think he could produce. I don’t think I was out of line as my job description plainly states that all financial matters are my purview and I was only trying to talk to him about how her behavior is impacting my ability to adhere to my job description.

    I don’t know what to do. This was my dream job until Monday of this week and now it’s my nightmare. If I thought for one minute things could go back to how they used to be, I’d want to stay. But I don’t see things returning to how they were and I am miserable here. Six weeks isn’t enough time for me to feel fully invested in saving this job so I am seriously leaning towards looking for another job. As much as I would like to hang in here, the wife has had me so upset I haven’t slept the past two nights at all and only got two hours’ sleep on Tuesday night. I’ve been up for 55 hours as of right now. I can’t do this and I don’t want to. The new receptionist is making the same per hour as I am, which I find highly insulting….I am just so upset about all of this.

    Any advice? I don’t think I can suck it up and stay here. I really feel like I need to find another job, especially if a receptionist can earn what I earn. I’d rather have the paycheck without the responsibilities.

    (And, quite honestly, that was the point I was at when I accepted this position. I answered an ad for a receptionist/admin asst. I decided I was at the point in life where I didn’t want any responsibility, just do my job collect my pay and go home. I didn’t think I’d ever find my dream job so I gave up. When they saw my experience and skills, they offered me the bookkeeping position. And, as I said, at first it was perfect. Until the wife came along. Now it is so much less than perfect I don’t know what to do.)

    1. designbot*

      Bother him in Africa! He’s working in Africa, not on vacation, so dealing with important work matters is very much within bounds. It also sounds like he already understands how important this is, as he’s lost one bookkeeper to the issue already.
      I’m also curious: does the wife work for the business? Or is she operating under an assumption of wifely duties? I ask because, if she does work for the company, then continuing to characterize her as ‘the president’s wife’ is not going to win you any points and her relationship shouldn’t impact how you handle her. But if she’s not employed by the company, then you could totally try stonewalling and being like, I can’t let anyone outside of the company have access to that information, etc.

    2. fposte*

      Ugh, I wrote a long reply and it got eaten. So here’s the short version.

      It sounds frustrating and your concerns are absolutely reasonable, but it also sounds like it’s not personal, even though it may feel like a reflection on you, and I think that it doesn’t need to be a “not sleeping for two days” problem (and might seem more manageable if you *do* get some sleep).

      However, I also think it *is* an email-the-boss-in-Africa problem, because I bet he’d rather get an email from you in Africa than hire your replacement from there. Keep it neutral and focus on your concern that somebody not employed there is now being tasked with HR, which makes you 1) concerned for the org and 2) think that if your job is permanently changing under the current demands, it’s no longer the great fit for you that it had been.

      (I also think that this president situation is a ticking time bomb, and that if the CEO doesn’t manage to put a firm stop to it the place is doomed.)

    3. Caro in the UK*

      Email the CEO. He’s already aware of the problem and as designbot said, he’s not on vacation, he’s working, just elsewhere. Plus part of the deal with getting CEO pay and benefits is dealing with situations like this at less than ideal times, it’s his job!

    5. CatCat*

      If you’re at this point, I would contact the CEO in Africa. This is a pattern with the wife and I think he’d want to know and try and fix it to keep you rather than having to hire a replacement.

      Also, I’d probably mark the wife’s emails to my personal email address as spam so they start just automatically get dumped into the spam folder. Then if she asks, “That’s weird. I didn’t get your emails. Did you send them to my work email? I don’t see them there.” “Oh, you sent to my personal email? I didn’t see anything there. I also don’t check that email every day so you should send things to my work email.” Just keep repeating.

    6. Temperance*

      1.) Email the CEO.
      2.) Start looking for a new job. It’s not healthy or normal to stay awake for over 2 days over some work problems.

    7. Kristinemc*

      Is it possible to set up an email filter so that all emails from her are redirected to your work email, and automatically put into a folder, so that you don’t see them? That might help with her not upsetting you at home.

      I agree with everyone else – you should email the CEO about it.

    8. Lizzy*

      Wait – why are you responding to this lady’s emails AT ALL????? She’s not an employee, so quit giving her the responses.

      And yes, email the CEO. It doesn’t sound like he’s on vacation in Africa – he’s still working, and my bet is he’d want to know about something like this.

    9. animaniactoo*

      One thing you can be sure of: The CEO does not want to come back from Africa and find this mess.

      She is impeding your ability to do your job, and you got nowhere trying to address it with the President. That means it’s time to go over his head.

      CEO is going to be pissed at having to deal with it, but do you think he’d be more pissed to have to deal with it from Africa, or to come back from Africa and be blindsided with what’s been done in his absence? Including your possible absence from your role?

    10. SpaceNovice*

      +1 to telling the CEO. This is purposely being done while he’s away. She’s hoping to get away with it while he’s out!

      1. SpaceNovice*

        I would send your boss one email detailing the situation with all the emails she’s been sending you attached. Mostly because of time zones, because his next question is going to be “can you send me the emails?”

    11. PNWFlowers*

      This sounds harsh, so apologies but… just because someone sends something to your personal email doesn’t mean you have to read it. Particularly if you’ve asked them not to. Don’t engage after hours with her via your personal email. Take care of your cat, sleep (!!!) etc. It does sound awful and stressful, but some boundaries could help you feel a lot better and provide some much needed distance for you to be ok. Also, team email the CEO here! Don’t let a dingbat (non)employee ruin your perfect job! :)

      1. Irene Adler*

        Exactly!

        What if OP was not in the habit of checking her personal email regularly? Some folks don’t. I think I’d develop this habit pronto.

        And email the CEO.

        And take care of yourself (and cat too!).

        They should have given you instructions/person to turn to should Mrs. President do to you what she did to drive the last person away from the job.

        1. anonmanager*

          This last point makes me think—right now this could be seen by President as an individual disagreement between himself and the CEO. Bringing more people in, discussing with say the CFO or COO how to handle it, could help this become less personal and more about the company’s best interests as a whole.

    12. H.C.*

      I agree with the others to email the CEO about the issue – incl. copies of her emails to your personal address (!!!); in the meantime, set up a filter in your personal inbox to redirect/forward all mail from Prez Wife’s to your work email (& then reply from work email during your working office hours.) And as other said, just because she emailed your personal inbox in the off hours doesn’t mean you have to reply to them.

      Fingers crossed that CEO will back you up, the president won’t retaliate and his wife doesn’t escalate this to bothering you on your home phone/personal cell or via social media.

      1. SpaceNovice*

        If I was particularly evil, I would suggest setting up a filter to immediately forward them to the CEO and CC Mrs. President. But don’t do this. Seriously, do not. Just daydream about it.

    13. The New Wanderer*

      Please tell the CEO what’s going on. Encourage the partner(s) to do so too. And ignore any and all emails to your personal address, if you haven’t been already.

      It sounds to me like the wife is angling for a paid position there and throwing her weight around to “show value” because she knows the Pres is allowing it and no one can say no to her. Even if she’s not, she’s still being allowed to mess with things and that’s way out of bounds. The CEO should definitely put a stop to this, it’s a threat to the stability of his business at home. Even if you don’t want to stay if things go back the way they were (meaning the President + wife are still around, although IMO he should be canned over this since he ignored the first warning), give the CEO the chance to make it right.

    14. Not So NewReader*

      I think I would forward her emails to the CEO in Africa and ask him what he would like you to do. You can also inquire if you will be compensated for answering her emails on your personal time.

      OTH, there might be enough of things wrong here that you just decide, “screw it, I’m outta here.”

    15. LilySparrow*

      If the wife isn’t an employee, why are you discussing anything about the company’s finances with her at all?

      Just don’t answer her emails to your personal address, and forward the work ones to the CEO and cc her:

      Dear CEO,

      I hope you can help clear something for us. Mrs Doesntworkhere has quite a lot of questions for me about Company operations. I would be happy to assist her, but it’s my understanding that she is not a Company employee.

      Naturally, I’m reluctant to share confidential information, as it would be highly inappropriate for me to discuss HR matters or the company accounts with anyone who is not authorized to deal with that information.
      Can you please clarify Mrs Doesntworkhere’s role?”

      Good luck, and I hope you get some rest. That kind of sleep deprivation is reaching dangerous levels, and certainly doesnt help you deal with difficult situations.

  101. Sal*

    I’m having trouble in job searching due to search terms. I’m looking to move into a role that does environmental/conservation research/analysis. I search directly on some NGO websites, but general environmental job boards have been hit or miss. I’d like to expand my search to other organizations besides the handful I’m aware of, but when i search for jobs on indeed, “environmental” is mostly jobs in the energy sector, or hazardous waste, or regulatory compliance type positions, which is not what I’m looking for. I’m looking to change fields so I’m still learning about this, but are there any search terms or other tips that might get me more info/jobs along the lines of what I’m looking for? Thanks!

    1. 47 days left @ toxic job*

      If you’re not on Idealist.org you should be! It’s a great blog site for the kinds of jobs you’re looking for. Also I’d suggest searching “conservation.” That may help!

    2. CheeryO*

      You might qualify for some positions at state environmental agencies, depending on your background. (My agency has both “research scientist” and “environmental analyst” title series.) Check out their websites to see what’s out there.

    3. Environmental Compliance*

      Are you looking in a particular region? Might be helpful as far as search terms go.

      I second looking at state agencies (check out USA jobs). Dept of Natural Resources or Dept of Environmental Management, depending on the state. Maybe USGS or EPA, too.

      Also look up environmental consulting companies in your area. I found that the ones in my area at least often don’t post anywhere but their own websites.

      I totally get the search term thing. You search environmental and it never seems to be related. Try “ecology”, “restoration”, “wetland”, things like that.

    4. Grace Less*

      My experience with environmental professionals is primarily related to design and construction. They research potential impacts of development and propose mitigation techniques. If that is of interest to you, I’d suggest looking at the Department of Transportation website for your state and finding prequalified consultants in the environmental categories (potential keywords: wetland, NEPA, water quality). (Those firms generally refer to themselves as consultants, but the employment structure is standard – full time employees with benefits, etc.)

  102. Cute Li'l UFO*

    Thanks to everyone who helped me out in explaining that I’d recently been in an accident right before the interviews I had yesterday. My interviewers were gracious, understanding, and wanted to be flexible if they needed to. I felt good about both of them and one of them I’m really gunning for. I was most worried that I would come across as unprepared or bad at speaking but being able to attribute it to an accident probably made me feel less self-conscious. I did feel as if I groped around for a couple words occasionally but I felt much better having explained. Interviewer from DreamPlace (Local Biotech Palace) had some very wonderful things to say about my thought process and work style that, uh, thanks to my issues with short term recall at the moment, I can’t remember verbatim. She said something along the lines of thoughtful and intuitive in relation to how I interact and perform in a work environment.

    I’m glad they were only video interviews. I put on a little eyeshadow, a little undereye concealer, a little blush just to brighten up a little. I wore a uniqlo cache-coeur top that’s reversible (low part in back) and had the darndest time trying to tie it since I don’t have the best range of motion. It was a good shirt to wear because I can easily hide that I can’t dress myself and since I have a tough time getting anything other than a stretchy t-shirt with a deep/wide neck on I can’t complain.

    Oh, and the Juicy velour pants. Of course.

    Hoping for the best outcomes!

  103. Jess*

    Any ideas for a place for a phone interview when I work in NYC (so no car) and places like Starbucks are busy all the time with tourists, etc? Also, I work in a suspicious office so I don’t want to risk ducking into an open office to take it.

    1. Tara S.*

      Can you go to a library? They often have meeting rooms you can book for an hour. I did this for my video interviews for my last two positions.

    2. WellRed*

      A nice hotel. They have all kinds of little meeting areas off various lobbies and conference rooms.

    3. lopsided*

      I suck it up and sit in a far-enough-away POPS (privately owned public space). I work in a less touristy area and can get away with it, but the hotel lobby idea is also valid. I’ve never had the gumption to just do it, though – I end up feeling too weird to walk in.

    4. Lcsa99*

      Live and work in NY. I’ve done it in a Duane Reade plenty of times. It’s quiet enough and I used one I know I can get a good signal (some of them it’s spotty, so you have to know your store). You can’t sit, but I used one of the shelves to put down my notepad and scribble notes before wandering again. Not ideal but it works!

  104. Llama Grooming Coordinator*

    This actually popped into my head because of the first post on this open thread: how to deal with communication issues across genders. (This is something that I feel like I should know by now.)

    I co-supervise a team of mostly women (my co-supervisor is a woman, I’m a man), and a couple of the employees are very outspoken to the point where I feel they’re a bit aggressive sometimes. I’ve tried to address the most egregious things (outwardly naming coworkers responsible for production issues, for example), but I’m also a little cautious about it because of how it might look. (To be honest, I actually question whether I’m seeing things accurately, or whether it’s partly internalized misogyny.) For things I think will land poorly, I’ll usually run it through my co-supervisor (or my manager, who’s also a woman), but I don’t think that’s fair to her to have to be the fall guy for me.

    For what it’s worth, both of the most outspoken employees are women who’ve been working on that specific job for a while (and longer than I’ve been supervising that job). They’re mostly good with directions, it’s just both of them have their days (one of them got a little upset with me when I reassigned her to a new workstation a couple of months ago – which I did partly because she kept complaining about how slow her old workstation was). My opinion is that it’s great that they’re letting us know about things, it’s just that they might need to tone their presentation down a little. Oddly enough, I think I’d feel the same way if they were both men, and I’d feel less trepidation about bringing it up.

    1. CM*

      I see why this is tricky. I would stick to specific and concrete examples and ways that they could have handled the situations better. Avoid generalities like “you need to tone it down” or “you’re too outspoken,” which can feel like a criticism of their personality, and a gender-based one no less.

      You could also spend some time thinking through exactly how their outspoken-ness impacts your work and your team. This would both make you feel sure of yourself — that this is really a work issue and isn’t just about your perception of them — and would give you objective reasons that you could communicate to them, which will help you avoid those generalities.

      1. Llama Grooming Coordinator*

        Will do – I drafted out a bit of a response to C, but I’ll definitely try to narrow down whatever’s bothering me.

    2. C*

      I just want to say good on you for being thoughtful about all of this. I think there are a lot of implicit biases out there, and they can’t just be eradicated with the flip of a switch, but they can be reflected on and questioned before acting. Even women need to do this when dealing with other women. We can have that implicit bias too! (I’ve certainly worked for those mean girls.) And it sounds like that is what you are doing.

      To that end, I agree with focusing on specifics, rather than generalities. And allow for a little bit of dialogue. In other words, try to show that you hear them. You sound completely reasonable in the workstation example; but, she may be seeing it some other way. If you can suss out what the root issue is, and show that you hear her, maybe you can work toward a solution – or even a more healthy pattern for how she can express her opinion and feel valued. OR it may become clear that she is simply a chronic complainer or resister of authority. I never fully figured out how to manage the latter…

      1. Llama Grooming Coordinator*

        So with the workstation example, Jane (the employee in that situation) has been moved around before. This last time, we had a department reorganization (we stopped doing one job in-house and had to shuffle around people), and I used that to move her at the same time. Part of why she was frustrated is that she had to set up everything again the way she had it before, which…she didn’t need help with getting everything set up, but I can understand the frustration in retrospect. (Part of it was that she didn’t get along with our former co-supervisor, who did something similar – I think one thing she said was that she always got moved around, which was…true, but I had a valid reason in this case.)

        Things actually worked out fine in the end, since she did apologize for getting mad at me in front of everyone (we work in an open office), and…honestly, it wasn’t that big of a deal to begin with. And for what it’s worth, I think I generally get along well with everyone, including Jane and Lucinda (the other employee I mentioned).

        More generally speaking – thanks! For what it’s worth, without getting into too much detail about my actual line of work I need to think about challenges our employees face when addressing concerns. And if/when I do need to go more into detail (our performance reviews are coming up soon), I’ll definitely keep your (and CM’s) advice in mind.

    3. Wakeen Teaptots, LTD*

      Great question. So here are a couple of classic traps I have observed in male> female workplace dynamics.

      1) the man not listening OR the woman not feeling heard
      2) the man dismissing the woman’s passion or emphasis as “being too emotional”
      3) i had a 3rd one and then I multi tasked and now I forget what it is

      Some people are just difficult or don’t know how to present their ideas in a socially greased fashion. But some women have had to deal with 1-3 (whatever 3 was), so they might have a more strident presentation because that is the only way they have been able to be heard previous.

      I might suggest practicing “I hear you” kinda stuff with these people and see if it makes a difference. If they are expressing their opinions strongly in inappropriate places (like bitching to co-workers, or in all staff meetings where it is awkward or embarrassing to receive that strong feedback in front of other people), give them an alternative? It is possible that if they believe they are heard without “shouting” they may stop “shouting”.

      1. Llama Grooming Coordinator*

        3) i had a 3rd one and then I multi tasked and now I forget what it is

        It was the EPA, wasn’t it? It’s always the EPA.

        You’re probably right, and listening more is the main thing I should be doing. Which presents a new set of challenges – I do want to have check-ins just because I’d like to catch up on things, but I don’t have the private space and I don’t want to do it in front of everyone.

        1. Wakeen Teaptots, LTD*

          The listening thing isn’t gendered. I am really busy and I have to remind myself constantly to make time for people + zip my lip, practice my listening skills and make people feel heard (male or female reports, I am a woman). But skews gendered for a career history of being or feeling unheard, is what I think.

          And no, not EPA. Please do not give them my number. I have enough issues!

    4. Student*

      Yellow flag here on the workstation swap.

      Any time you give somebody a resource that they asked for, and they come away disappointed – that’s a sign that you probably didn’t give them the thing they actually wanted.

      When you give somebody a tech upgrade that they asked for, and they’re unhappy about it, you should look really hard at your delivery of said upgrade. Doing the upgrade = good. Delivery of the upgrade = bad; and that’s a problem squarely on you.

      Did your employee have any say in the timing of the hardware upgrade so she could minimize the disruption? Did she get adequate tech support to successfully complete the upgrade, or was it very bumpy? Did she get any say, or merely some transparency, in what the upgrade was and whether it was suitable to her work – or did you pick something for her without her input and without demonstrating that you understand her work needs?

      If you purposely got her something that didn’t live up to her expectations, then it’s also on you to address that directly. If there’s a solid business reason to do that, people will usually understand – but they may feel personally slighted if you give them something substantively less than they asked for with no explanation whatsoever.

      1. Llama Grooming Coordinator*

        Tough…but fair.

        To answer your questions: It was actually a desk change! Most of our stations are configured similarly (I deal with entry-level employees), so we kept the computers at the same desks and had to shuffle people around. (Jane’s old workstation was still running Windows XP, to give you an idea of how old it was.) The problem was that we had five people transition onto computer work, and we ended up trying to find spaces for 25 people with only 20 open desks in my office. (Most of our employees work part-time, but their schedules overlap. Which made things more difficult. I don’t have authority over scheduling, because otherwise I would have suggested schedule changes.)

        I did let everyone know ahead of time that this was going to be happening and that I would try to minimize disruptions, but I couldn’t make any guarantees. Originally I was going to keep Jane at her old desk, but she’d called out the days I actually finalized the changes and got people set up – and another employee (Felicia) ended up sitting at Jane’s old desk because she was training on a new job process and I wanted her to be close to Fergus (who knows that process very well) – so I did end up changing my mind while she was out.

        I think in retrospect, part of it was that I did a LOT of stuff at once. So I definitely did drop a couple of balls. And the transition, as you can guess, didn’t go smoothly at first. (Thankfully, this should be the last one for a while.)

  105. Murphy*

    I haven’t had a full performance evaluation at my job despite being here three years. (First year, I switched managers maybe a month beforehand, second year I was on maternity leave and I think I just didn’t get one? I also definitely didn’t contribute to my goal setting for the next year, because when I saw it this year, it left out a pretty significant portion of my job.)

    I though my boss and I might talk about it, but he went ahead and put in the written evaluation weeks ago and is now waiting for someone higher up to sign it so I can then see it and sign it. (Or he has it and just hasn’t shown it to me yet.) I assume we’ll talk about it when I see the written copy? What is normal?

    1. A Nickname for AAM*

      I don’t think you should worry that your boss had to show his boss before he did your evaluation with you. At my work, typically the reviews have to be submitted for approval before they’re released to the employees. This is to prevent the company from legal liability when a bad boss writes something illegal/racist/sexist in a review.

  106. CPA without 150 credits*

    I have a CPA license and 150 credits are required. I’m “grandfathered in” under old rules of needing 120 credits. New CPAs need 150 credits and many are opting to get a masters degree to reach the 150.

    I like my job but some open positions at other companies are wanting a masters degree. Have 10 years experience already.

    I don’t have any kids or a car payment, only credit card debt. If I’d return to school it’d be now but that’s a big IF. What do you all think?

    1. CM*

      Are you sure a master’s degree is mandatory? It could be that positions asking for it would happily accept your 10 years of experience as a substitute.

      You’re a CPA, so you can figure out the ROI on this. How much time and money will the master’s cost? How likely are you to need another job? How likely is it that you’d need a master’s to get another job?

      In your shoes, I probably wouldn’t do anything. Based purely on what you said in this post, it doesn’t seem like you necessarily need a master’s.

  107. PianoGirl*

    I could really use some help. My husband, who teaches High School Theatre, is supposedly retiring at the end of this year (he is turning 62 this summer). He keeps flipping back and forth, and it’s become quite agonizing. He has put his heart and soul into his job, but also knows it’s time to leave (he doesn’t relate to the students as much anymore, the job is taking a physical toll on him). Meanwhile, he is all over the map at home. How do you transition to the next part of your life? He has considered applying to teach part-time at the local college/university, acting, and doing some writing, but we haven’t made very concrete plans yet because he was still trying to make a decision. Thanks in advance for any help!

    1. ABK*

      Sounds like he needs a concrete plan to look forward to. Hard to leave something behind for a void of ambiguity. Maybe actually apply for some jobs, sign up for some community classes, start a project he’s really excited about, something! Otherwise it’s so hard to bite the bullet.

    2. fposte*

      On bogleheads dot org they call that “one more year” syndrome. I recommend looking for retirement threads on the forums there, because there are a lot of people who are retiring or have retired who can make it a lot more concrete a concept and have models that give shape to what can feel like a nebulous void.

    3. Piano Girl*

      Thank you for your advice! I agree, it’s time for him to start applying for new jobs – he presented his principal with his letter today, so I guess it’s time.
      He definitely has “one more year” syndrome. I’ve really encouraged him to make the final decision, but I also realize that I’m really tired of the whole thing, and I can see the toll it has taken on all of us.

      1. anon for now*

        Is there a community theater program? They’re usually dying for someone with expertise and the projects are more short term.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      It’s definitely wise to make a plan for what to do in retirement. If he can’t nail down one idea as being better than all the rest, why not commit to trying various things for short stints to see what goes well or what is very different from expected.

      Do you guys take walks together? If you can where you live, it’s probably a great idea to walk and talk. I am mentioning this because you say it’s becoming “agonizing”. Find the fun in having a new adventure, opening up a new chapter in life. You guys can start to get lighter by using up some of that excess energy in regular walks.I am feeling some excess energy here. It does not have to be long and you do not have to go the route with the steepest hill in your area, keep it simple so that you keep doing it.

    5. Fiennes*

      He could also plan to work as a freelance acting coach, possibly? A few handpicked students who are serious about the craft wouldn’t tire him as much as random teenagers en masse, and let him still do part of the work he enjoys.

      But retirement is tough for those who define themselves by their work—not even wholly, but in a real, substantive way. It’s a loss, and it’s okay to acknowledge and mourn that loss. I think we as a society are too glib about expecting every retiree to be thrilled or at least relieved.

    6. Piano Girl*

      Thank you again for all your suggestions. We have had several long discussions about what he can do in the future, and I can see that it will be an ongoing thing. I am encouraging him to become involved in community theatre, which up to now he hasn’t had time to do, and do some writing that he has been contemplating for quite some time. I think the more we discuss the open possibilities, the easier it will be to say goodbye.

  108. ABK*

    I don’t think I’m in a position to do anything, but I’m curious what people think. The manager who interviewed me and hired me rarely comes into the office. She was directly managing me for the first 6 months but was also pregnant so she had a lot of sick/working from home days and we might have gotten a 20 min one on one in each week. It’s my understanding that she is scheduled to be in the office on Tues/Thurs and used to do that. However, before maternity leave that rarely happened, then she came back from leave 3 weeks ago and hasn’t been in the office yet! My direct manager changed so it doesn’t really affect me, but there are only 4 people on my team in the office, none of us senior, so she’s missed.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Do you guys know who you should contact in case of emergency? I don’t just mean fire/flood, I mean if something has to be signed or if a big decision needs to be made.

  109. Lumos*

    Soooo. I went for a promotion about two months ago that had something around 20 openings and was 99.9% the job I already do. I didn’t get it and neither did almost every other internal candidate who went for it. Turns out, they didn’t even fill all the positions and they reposted it yesterday. My coworkers are suggesting I go for it again, but seriously, two months ago they told me I couldn’t do this job I already basically do (and I’ve got experience with that 0.1% also) and I highly doubt anything has changed. The only change is the interview panel will be different people. Should I even bother?

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I think I’d apply again if I were you, given that the interview panel will be entirely different. I’m curious why they change up the panel?

      Is there anyone on the current panel that you know that you could ask about your candidacy/re-application before going through the hassle?

      1. Lumos*

        Every time a position opens up, the interview panel is kinda randomly chosen from all employees of a certain level. Interviewees get scored by the 3-5 people on the panel, those people will make their recommendations to administration, then administration will make their own recommendations to county HR (I’m in local government) The current panel isn’t known until you walk into the interview basically. We were able to solicit feedback from our regional managers after the previous process, but didn’t really get individualized answers. One employee was told to dress more professionally for the interview next time. (She’d showed up in a suit. We’re very confused.)

    2. ABK*

      Seems like you should bother. Ask them good questions about what they thought you lacked the last time around and prepare responses to each of them.

      1. Lumos*

        It’s going to be an entirely different panel who were no part of the previous process. If our interview panel selection worked differently I’d ask, but if no one from the previous panel (Who didn’t even make the decision) is in there, then they would honestly have no idea what was lacking.

        1. ABK*

          but ask people who did interview you so you can get a handle on what weaknesses the new panel might see in you.

    3. Temperance*

      You miss 100% of the shots that you don’t take. – Wayne Gretzky / Michael Scott

  110. MissGirl*

    It’s graduation week in my area so the workplaces will be saturated with interns next Monday. What advice would you give all these college students to help them succeed?

    I would say show up to work. The job may not pay, will not be glamorous, but you show up every day to work.

    1. PB*

      Encourage them to ask lots of questions. A lot of people who are new to work can be hesitant to ask for help, either because they don’t want to look like they don’t know what they’re doing, or they don’t want to interrupt, or a combination. Remind them that internships are first of all learning opportunities, and their supervisors are there to help them.

    2. CBE*

      Yes, SHOW UP.
      Second, if you want to make a good impression, do it by showing willingness to learn, reliability, and attention to detail. NOT by showing off your knowledge.

  111. mreasy*

    In the last couple of weeks, I have been able to give two amazing people raises and promotions. It’s the best feeling!!

  112. The Ginger Ginger*

    Product People! What do I do with down time as someone who is new to product?

    I’m about 45 days into the 90 day onboarding process for a new product owner role (my first time as a product owner). Other projects/products have higher priority than any I am assigned to, so currently all company resources are pointed at those products (and rightly so). But I’ve about hit the limit of what I can conceivably do/teach myself about my new role without access to resources and without any of the products I own being given team priority. My manager knows this will soon be an “issue”, but I’m still not clear on what my next steps should be. I can only do so many training videos, blog posts, current product status reviews, etc, and I can’t schedule meetings with key resources on my upcoming projects because they are critical to current work. I’m finding that I’m starting to have some down time, which I do NOT want happening when I’m so new to a role and still proving their confidence in hiring me.

    So….what do? Any suggestions?

    1. stej*

      Can you start sitting in on their meetings where they give status updates and/or discuss features or changes? This way you can start learning the jargon and what the team is thinking at the moment.

      Disclaimer: I’m not a product person.

      1. The Ginger Ginger*

        You’re not wrong! But alas, I am already doing this :/

        I think it’s going to come down to a clearer convo with my boss about where I should be focusing while the other projects wrap up. I’m probably just a little extra wigged out about this because there were some surprise layoffs across multiple departments earlier this week, and I do NOT want it to seem like I don’t have anything to do at this particular moment.

  113. Kat*

    I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has moved teams or roles (to an extent) within the same company and how long it took to feel comfortable and like you know your job, ha. I was asked (told) I had to move and now I have, and after the first week I’m feeling a bit deflated. My job used to involve editing but also project management so I had a variety of tasks and I was senior in my team so had a good handle on what I was doing. Now I am mainly just editing and on brand new documents and topics I don’t know (I didn’t know much about the old stuff, either, so I’m trying to remind myself of that, but I don’t want to take another X years to feel good again!). I am still at the same level but although it’s the same company and I know everyone in my new team, I feel all at sea and like I’m going to be ‘found out’ to be useless at my job. All my editing skills seem to have deserted me while working on this complex text. I want to do well so I don’t embarrass myself and they wonder why they thought I was good to start with. I feel a bit vulnerable, I guess, and not sure how to work through that in my mind.

    1. WellRed*

      I think all editors struggle when faced with a new type of subject/material to work with. It’s almost like a foreign language until you get it down.

    2. Llama Grooming Coordinator*

      SUPER late on this, but…this is me, actually! I’ve moved several times between teams and roles within the same company.

      It really depends on how you feel – it’s taken me a couple of months to feel socially comfortable, on average. I actually have picked up projects a lot more quickly (good in my case, since a huge part of my job is project management!), but getting comfortable with different teams has always taken me longer because of my own issues. (There was one team that I don’t think I ever really meshed with, and I was there for the better part of a year!)

      So, first and foremost:

      1) You’re not a bad person for having to move. You sound…a little like me a couple of years ago. Probably the worst move I had was a couple of years ago, when the first project I managed fell apart and I got transferred. That was super traumatic at the time – partly because I felt like I had done something wrong (because…well, to be quite honest, I had), and partly because it wasn’t handled the best way by management (basically, they transferred me assuming the project would stay together, it fell apart, and then they had no idea what to do with me for a month). But I managed to survive that first month where I felt useless, and honestly it worked out really well! I got assigned to a couple of other teams, and I actually really like my current team and project.

      And I don’t know. Maybe I’m projecting a lot. But I think it’s worth saying that even if you did get transferred because you weren’t a good fit for whatever reason, it doesn’t mean anything about your own worth.

      1a) It’s also really disorienting to feel like you’ve been forced to take a step down. I…don’t know how to tell you how to go about dealing with that because in my case, I kind of got shunted sideways into an entirely different set of skills (analytics), then stepped back into project management, but if not having a team is part of the issue, it might be worth addressing later on?

      2) You’d be surprised how few people expect you to hit the ground running and to be perfect. I give my new hires at least a month to pick up entry level tasks. Hopefully, your new team extends you the same courtesy.

      3) You’re probably doing better than you think. You didn’t know everything when you started your old position, either. And now you have the advantage of knowing what you don’t know, and of at least (hopefully) having a vague idea of How Things Are Supposed To Work. (I mean, whether you’re documenting how to give llamas perms or Jheri curls, you’re still talking about grooming llamas, am I right?)

      I’m sure you’re doing great, and you’ll continue do great. Don’t be afraid to ask for help (within reason!). Having nerves about starting something new is perfectly normal, and you shouldn’t feel like it’s wrong – it is a little bit new and a little bit scary. And good luck – give it a couple of weeks and hopefully you’ll be feeling a lot better about things! And apologies for not being of more help.

  114. Alenia*

    I’ll be recording some training videos for work with professional equipment and all that jazz. I’m pretty excited, but would like to practice my “radio-voice”. Any suggestions?! These will be short videos. One is about 5 mins, the other is around 10.

    1. Tara S.*

      Any practice will help you get better! Just pick a passage to read and listen back to yourself to see if you hear anything you might want to change. Maybe a passage close to what you will be reading for the real deal?

      Also, apparently sucking on/eating apple slices helps when doing recordings? Alison mentioned this about her audiobook recording experience, and I’ve seen other people who do a lot of recording of talking mention it.

    2. The Ginger Ginger*

      Talk slower than feels comfortable. Don’t drag, but you definitely don’t want to use a normal chatting speed. You want to take the time to hit all your consonants and give the listener a chance to keep up with you in a training setting. Normal talking speed for some regions is just too fast for the brain to both understand the words AND the concept they’re conveying. And when being recorded a lot people feel nervous which really puts the gas on word speed.

      AND make sure you’re varying your tone on your sentence endings. I’ve heard lots of speakers who end all they’re sentences with an upward pitch, like questions? Even when they’re not? And they do it so consistently when speaking that it’s actually distracting? And pretty soon I’m listening to their tone instead of their content? And for some regions this is really common? You get the idea.
      But it also works in reverse. And I’m not sure how to convey this one in text, but some speakers drop the end of their phrases. I don’t necessarily mean in volume (though that happens too), but in tone/pitch. As in, every phrase they say ends on the same pitch or note, so their speech pattern sort of resembles this downward swoop on each sentence. It’s a little like being audibly on a ferris wheel, or on a little boat on sea waves. So make sure your tone is varied and engaging and not monotonous in the pattern you’re using.

      Good luck! I’m a bit jealous, this sounds like a really fun job responsibility.

      1. The Ginger Ginger*

        And depending on if it’s appropriate for your topic, animating your face really helps with how engaging your tone is. I wouldn’t necessarily say SMILE, but let your face reflect your engagement in your content. It definitely comes through in your voice.

    3. Neosmom*

      My MS 10 laptop has a voice recorder on it. I am also recording training scripts and use it. The advice here is helpful – practice, listen to yourself, keep your face and body animated. Also, listen to your recorded voice (I’ve caught lisps I needed to re-record). Perhaps review your scripts and underline words or phrases you want to emphasize.

  115. Kat Em*

    Just had the BEST performance review this week. Was basically told that I’m great, that my work is top-tier, and that my couple of deadline flubs a couple months ago were minor and not a big deal in the scheme of things. We spent the rest of our half hour chatting about what’s coming up for the business, news about clients, etc.

    What’s even better than having a great review is that I wasn’t worried about it at all. For the first time in my life I was confident that if there were an issue my manager would have brought it up before now. I started in December just an anxious wreck, constantly wondering how horribly I sucked. But a few months under sane leadership has been a huge boost to my confidence. I can’t recommend working for decent people with reasonable expectations enough!

    1. CM*

      Congratulations! I totally agree, reviews are so much easier, and work is less anxiety-inducing, knowing the people you work with will raise issues when they happen.

  116. zora*

    Why is onboarding such a mess at my company?? How does onboarding go at your company, is it always this disorganized?

    I am the admin for our satellite office, so I have to handle and support onboarding for all of our new hires. Every Single Time we have had a new person start, either HR or IT has made errors and often both of them. (eg: misspelling their names, incorrect titles, etc). And on top of that, all kinds of things get missed in trainings with the HR, Finance, etc departments, and the new hires come to me wondering how they find out about the PTO policy, the transit commuter program, expense reimbursements, all kinds of things that no one has asked me to handle, but no one else has either. I am frustrated because I like to be more organized, and I would like to have a list of things to go over all at once, but also because I feel like it makes us look super chaotic and dysfunctional to the new hires!

    How does onboarding go at your company? Is this common and I should just breathe and accept that it’s chaos? Or is there a better way to do this?

    1. 47 days left @ toxic job*

      Our onboarding process is bad too. The only thing that makes ours different is that for the nitty-gritty questions on PTO and expenses, we have an outside HR we call. But in terms of training and office norms, it’s very catch all and disorganized. I think there’s always going to be some level of chaos, but I think you’re idea of making a list (particularly of the stuff HR should be covering) is a good one. If nothing else, you can give new hires a list or a packet on HR questions so they stop bothering you!

      1. zora*

        We have an actual HR department, but this time they apparently ended their training with the new hire after 5 minutes, instead of the full hour they had scheduled for the training, and then the next day the new hire started asking me all of these questions that have to fall under HR, I don’t even have that info for her. I want to scream, but instead I think I will try to be professional and send it up the chain worded as diplomatically as possible.

    2. CM*

      I’ve worked in a variety of organizations. I’ve found that onboarding usually doesn’t go 100% smoothly, but the level of chaos tells you a lot about how smoothly the organization as a whole runs. I had one job where I showed up and they weren’t prepared at all; the entire organization was a mess. At my current job, onboarding is incredibly smooth, with checklists and several days of formal training with hands-on exercises. The first week they concentrate on IT and facilities processes and HR paperwork; after a month or so, they have a followup to teach you about the company and its organization and business.

      It’s a big project and if you want to take this on, you will have to get buy-in from all those other departments you mention. Or you could start small by just creating a checklist — keep a copy and hand a copy to the new employee so you can both keep track of whether everything is done.

      1. zora*

        Because of politics and because I am at a small satellite office, it would be not okay for me to take the lead on this.

        But I am trying to decide whether this rises to the level where I should say something.

        I have been making my own list of things I go over with the new hires in my office, but every time I have someone new I’m finding more things that others aren’t covering, and it’s getting to the point where it’s things I don’t actually have the full information on. Like HR questions I can’t answer, because I don’t use the same benefits they do.

        But your comment is very helpful, I do think this is beyond the normal level of “not going smoothly”, so I’m going to try to find time to list out some of the problems I’ve seen and push it up the chain and hope that we can at least get a little more organized!

  117. Anonymous for this*

    Back in December I posted about how I had been ghosted about being a finalist for a government job. I had received emails that made a job offer (contingent on passing their background check) and they had me come in to be fingerprinted and have my picture taken for a security badge. (I’ve never been arrested so I’m sure my background check was fine.) I was told that I would be contacted sometime in the next two weeks to come in and pick up my badge and then, nothing.

    As the starting date for the job neared I contacted them on the Friday before the job was to start, but everyone was out of the office and I left a message on their voicemail. I contacted them again on Monday morning, the day the job was to begin and, again, everyone was out of the office, so I again left a message on their voice mail. At around noon an administrative assistant from the office sent me a terse email saying that I had been not been selected as a finalist for the job, but that I was still eligible to apply for future job openings with the agency.

    I can understand not being a finalist, but I did feel that they were jerking me around when they had me come in for the fingerprinting and picture. If had been employed, I probably would have given notice at that point. Not informing me that I was not a finalist after all when the job had a definite start date was, I think, really rude and unprofessional.

    I checked back on their website from time to time, but was never able to find any openings that I was qualified for. I had pretty moved on and forgotten about it, but then yesterday, almost 5 months after the position had started, they get around to sending me a formal rejection form letter. I don’t know what to think. I’m kind of thinking of leaving a terse, but honest, review about how they treat applicants on GlassDoor.

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      Wait, I’m confused. You got an offer, you got a start date, you went in for security items… and you were not a finalist? I mean, all these things sound like you were THE finalist…

      1. Anonymous for this*

        It was a group hire thing where they hired a set number of people to all start in the same basic position on the same day. Although they never said anything and I can’t know for sure, what I think happened was that they made job offers to more people than they had available positions for with the expectation that not everyone would accept the offer or pass the background check, as a way to insure that they had enough qualified warm bodies to fill all of the positions. I must have been at least minimally qualified, but considered to be a marginal candidate, and when the more qualified people all accepted the position and passed the background check, I was deemed not needed after all.

        I can live with that, but the way they went about it, ghosting me like that, and how they failed to inform me that I was not going to be hired after all really sucked. I’m sure that if I hadn’t phoned them and left messages before and when the job actually started, I probably would not have heard from them at all. The form rejection letter 5 months later, also sucks.

    2. CatCat*

      I think an honest review on Glass Door is warranted. “I received a job offer. They gave me a start date. I went in at their instruction to get fingerprinted and have my photo taken for a security badge. They said they would be in touch within the next 2 weeks to let me know when the security badge was ready. They never contacted me. When I followed up as the start date approached, they sent a tersely worded email that I was not a finalist per the position.”

  118. MissingArizona*

    Has anyone gone to a NAFjobs career fair? They have one on tuesday, here on base, but they don’t have a list of jobs, or employers, or anything besides “show up with your resume”.

  119. 47 days left @ toxic job*

    I officially told my supervisor I was leaving, but we haven’t told my Big Boss yet. My supervisor is really trying to get me to stay, and yesterday I was finally clear with her that there is nothing she could do to make me want to stay in this office. Big Boss is aggressive, demanding, and disrespectful. For several months now, supervisor has been telling me “oh that’s how all Big Bosses are” and I reminded her yesterday that this isn’t my first job in the field and I’ve worked for people who have high expectations and want hard work, but I’ve never worked for anyone as disrespectful as Current Big Boss. It was good to remind myself I’m not being irrational, and that Big Boss’s behavior is out of line.

  120. Professional Llama Wrangler*

    I’m on a listserv that frequently includes emails from an org with the abbreviated name LLAMA. Today’s subject line was “New LLAMA competency course!” and all I could think was that it would be perfect for an AAM resume.

    1. Snark*

      This is relevant to my interests. I am wearing a shirt with a llama outline and the caption “Como se?” and also recently acquired one that has a llama face and the word LLAMASTE.

      So I guess what I mean to say is, I would take the shit out of that course.

      1. AnotherJill*

        Weird. I can’t imagine finding a large animal with large teeth soothing.

  121. gsa*

    I work as a Project Manager in manufacturing, not really manufacturing but it will make a good analogy. I work with one person and our current work load is and has been fine for two people. There are seven of us over all. Sales is not keeping up and by the end of June my area will only need one person and some of the other areas will be complete. We have one project that is just getting started and should need another PM, and another that is not slated to start until January. Since our projects are outside, if certain phases are not complete before our typical cold wet winter, the start date could be delayed until March.

    I have been here three years, and in my industry since ’94. I will be updating my resume and start looking. Most people in my industry seemed to get picked in a month from when they start looking.

    Should I approach my Manager and ask if he will share his plans for the apparent down time? If yes, please suggest some ideas on talking points, how I might make approach. My biggest concern is that he will take the news as I am not happy and will leave regardless, making me the first one on his mind if/when the time comes to cut staff.

    Thanks,

    gsa

    1. AnotherAlison*

      I’m not totally clear from your description what your backlog is. (Unclear why you need a new PM if others are rolling off jobs & will be available.) Regardless, I would talk to your manager. They should be telling you the plan. I’m an engineering PM, and I can go to a report that is updated weekly and see the staffing plan and backlog. My company can move people to other divisions that are busy (we’re huge), or if a lull is temporary and we forecast new work starting, people are retained but work on overhead on standards instead of actual projects. PMs in my group specifically will go out with sales to visit clients when we aren’t busy on projects.

      I don’t think he’ll take it as you being unhappy. I would see it as a good sign that you’re paying attention and interested in what’s going on beyond your immediate project.

      1. gsa*

        “I’m not totally clear from your description what your backlog is. (Unclear why you need a new PM if others are rolling off jobs & will be available.) “

        We will not hire another, but will use one rolling off another job.

        Thanks for your comments,

        gsa

  122. Not So Super-visor*

    I feel like an old-timey school marm today: an extremely negative and hurtful email thread was forwarded to me by an employee where a group of employees were essentially ganging up on one employee. The bullied employee was not on the thread, but the others were going on and on about a performance issue that I’ve been addressing with the him (tardiness). It was incredibly mean spirited. The employee who forwarded it told me that these types of emails were becoming regular and the negativity was causing her so much stress that she went to the doctor and was considering anti-anxiety meds. One by one I got to pull in each member of the group email and explain to them the consequences that this type of negativity has on the group and how to deal with these issues moving forward. I’m pretty sure that they all just rolled their eyes the minute that they walked out of the conference room.

    Without actively monitoring their emails (which I could have IT assist with but I think is an overreach), what are some other options in this case?

    1. Beezus*

      How tardy is this fellow? It sounds like there might be a bigger morale issue that is causing your team to be such vicious gossips about a seemingly mild performance issue. I would just be firm in letting them know it’s unacceptable to gossip in such a manner about a coworker and that you understand their frustrations but it’s a management issue and being addressed.

      1. Not So Super-visor*

        It was actually perceived tardiness rather than real — the employee was asked to work an hour early to fill a staffing gap and was having issues adjusting his normal schedule and for the 2 week period that we asked him to fill this gap. He was about 3-5 minutes “late” for his hour early during this time frame.

        1. Beezus*

          Oh yuck! How even more awful. If you can be transparent with the other staff and shut down their rudeness by making them aware of the schedule change, I would. It’d be particularly ungracious of them to continue to be jerks when this person is covering extra time. Yeesh!

      2. Temperance*

        FWIW, if it’s a butts-in-seats job, and he’s regularly late, that may mean that the others are required to pick up his slack. While I don’t agree with sending mean emails making fun of people, I do hope that you’re also working to mitigate the impact of the lateness on the rest of the team.

        I used to work a job like that, and I did shamelessly throw a fit when I found out that my counterpart was getting to come in late and leave early while I had to pick up his slack. (It did the job, though, because he was no longer given these special perks.)

        1. Not So Super-visor*

          Here’s the thing: if we’re assuming that he’s 5 minutes late, he was still working 8 hours and 55 minutes while all of the people on the email chain were only working 8 hours. He was the only one with a schedule that could fill the gap (everyone else had an earlier start time), so it was hard to begrudge him 3-5 minutes for a 2 week period when he was already going above and beyond and working extra.

    2. CM*

      I would meet with the bullied employee and let her know you’ve got her back.
      Tell both the bullied employee and the employee who forwarded you the email that you won’t tolerate this behavior and please tell you if it happens again in the future, and you could even ask if they have any ideas.
      Finally, consider a formal warning or PIP if you hear of this happening again, so the bullying employees know it’s a performance issue that may affect their employment.

    3. A different take...*

      Go ahead and monitor their emails but I doubt it will do you any good now that they know they have a narc in their midst. They will switch to a group text or verbal conversations in breakrooms/bathrooms/etc.

      Now that I have read the rest of your comments, maybe this could have been avoided if you told everyone up front that he was going to be coming in earlier than his regular shift to help out. I don’t know if it would have helped as it seems like this group wants to complain just to be mean. Do they not notice that he stays when they all get up and leave? What haven’t you mentioned this to them?

      I used to have a guy that was legit 30-45 minutes late everyday, but he also stayed 60-90 minutes later than everyone else. When the grumbling started I shut it down right quick. All those 8am-4pm and 9am-5pm people changed their tune when I offered that they could work the same shift he was…10:30am-7pm.

      1. Not So Super-visor*

        He’s a closer, so his End of Shift is about 2 hours after the complainers have left for the day. They’re all openers. None of them checked the department roster to see that his posted schedule was still 10:30 – 7:00. They just assumed that if he was showing up at 9:33 that he was 3 minutes late for a 9:30 shift.

    4. cactus lady*

      This is so lame. If it were me I would be seriously considering firing someone who is bullying their coworker and then ROLLING THEIR EYES at me?! What the actual what. At the very least, I would tell them that it needs to stop, and if it happens again it could (and likely would) mean their job. I’d rather be understaffed for a short while than have a toxic culture on my team.

  123. anon 4 this*

    Morale is BAD in my department and I include myself. No one cares about accolades because they know some hellfire is going to rain down on them from above five minutes later. We went through a merger almost a year ago and were promised new software etc to make our jobs easier and nothing has manifested since and the workload has just piled up further. Yesterday our admin was let go and it’s just soured the mood further as I understand why but also don’t know who is going to do the work she was doing. I’m sure management will dump it on us staff–as if we suddenly have time to do that work (filing, routine report completion, etc.) that we had passed off to the admin due to crushing workloads and those things “not being a good use of our time”. I am increasingly wanting to look for another job and it sucks and I am mentally overwhelmed just thinking about having to do so never mind actually doing it.

    1. You don't know me*

      Start slowly. Update your resume. Start casually looking at job boards or websites to see what is out there. When I was in a similar position, just knowing I had options made me feel a little better.

  124. ScrewYouBilbo*

    This is a mini-update from my comment on the Coffee Wars Thread: So my co-worker “Bilbo” decided that he was the official coffee police even though he works three floors above me in a completely different department. Unrelated to that situation I was offered a promotion from my receptionist position and today is actually my final day here at this location! Earlier this week Bilbo found out about my move and has been increasingly annoying about the whole coffee thing. I decided if slight but oh-so-justified revenge was going to happen it needed to be today. This morning I went upstairs for my usual duties and as I was passing his door he wasn’t there. I just decided to close it even though I didn’t see his keys anywhere. Fast forward 5 minutes and I am back in my area.(The head honcho’s office is just past my reception desk so I can see when he goes anywhere.) So head honcho starts to walk by and he had the angriest look on his face. About five minutes later head guy and Bilbo walk past into head guy’s office and by the looks of it had a heated conversation.
    And my revenge was completed.

  125. sunbittern*

    I wrote in a couple weeks ago about a lengthy hiring process – the offer letter is coming today (3 weeks after I was promised it “ASAP”). The holdup was a discrepancy between the salary my NewBoss had verbally offered me and what a new compensation policy would allow. He wasn’t able to get it to the amount he initially offered, and feels bad about that. Now he wants to offer to personally help pay for school I’m doing outside of work (and unrelated to the position/employer). This feels like a bad idea. But some extra money is also nice, especially since I won’t be making as much as I thought I would. I feel like I should decline, but I don’t really know what to say.

    1. Jill*

      Yeah, that’s a very bad idea. Assuming you are still taking the job, let him know that you appreciate the offer, but you don’t feel comfortable with it.

      1. sunbittern*

        Yes, as much as it feels bad to turn down money, there are just too many weird boundary crossings and potential icky situations to accept.

  126. Gender pronouns at work*

    I recently started a new job where my boss (as well as at least one coworker I’ve met so far) uses they/them pronouns. I obviously want to respect everyone’s gender identity. I have found though that sometimes I mess up and use binary pronouns instead of they/them. This hasn’t happened with my boss about my boss, but it has happened with my boss about another nonbinary coworker. Is there a way to train myself so I’m not messing this up?

    Also, both internal & external folks have referred to my boss with binary pronouns in front of me (but not in front of my boss.) What’s the etiquette here, do I correct them or no?

    Any tips or insights anyone can provide is much appreciated. I know how important this is & it breaks my heart that I’m not where I need to be in terms of what pronouns accidentally come out of my mouth.

    1. DoctorateStrange*

      You can try using “them” to refer to not only nonbinary people, but also people in general. Maybe that will get you more into the habit of using those particular pronouns.

        1. Marvel*

          Please, please, please don’t do that if you know the person’s preferred pronoun and it’s NOT “they.” “Gender neutral” IS a gender, and it’s not mine. I would be very annoyed if someone who knew I go by “he” started regularly calling me “they”–and it’s something I’ve dealt with pretty regularly as a trans person. Some cis people want to just degender us entirely rather than acknowledge our identities, and that can be really dehumanizing.

          It might be good practice to use it occasionally when you don’t know someone’s pronouns, and it’s normal in English grammar to occasionally use “they” even for people who go by he/she, but you have to be careful with it is basically what I’m saying. Neutral isn’t always “neutral”; it’s its own identity and not everyone is okay with their gender being neutralized.

          1. DoctorateStrange*

            Oh, thank you for stating this. I had not realized and will be careful in the future.

    2. Friday I'm in Love*

      I’d have a chat with your boss / coworkers about what they’d want (this is for the folks who are using they/them). Make a game plan – the last thing you want to do is out them to others.

      The other thing is to practice and to acknowledge when you use the wrong pronouns. Not in a huge way, but just in a way that lets them know that you’re aware of what you said. Hope that helps!

    3. Tara S.*

      For yourself, just keep trying, you’ll get better with practice. For others, I find responding to people with the correct pronoun is fairly effective. Like, we had a coworker who transitioned from using female to male pronouns, so when a coworker would say to me “Charlie did good work today, I she gets recognized on the leader board,” I would respond with with, “Yeah, he really killed it on project X.” As long as the other person isn’t being malicious, it typically works as a reminder without seeming to pushy.

      1. Gender pronouns at work*

        That’s interesting because the reverse has actually happened to me. I usede them to refer to my boss to a coworker & the coworker then used she to refer to my boss multiple times in the very next sentence the coworker said.

        1. Tara S.*

          Hmm, maybe it works better when switching from one binary pronoun to another, rather than to them/they.

          1. Marvel*

            You have to make it a bit more pointed with gender-neutral pronouns so people realize you’re doing it purposefully, but I’ve had some success in the past.

    4. Schnoodle*

      Just keep trying! I’m clearly a woman and not trans of binary or anything, but my name is gender neutral and due to my position often times people assume I’m a man. So I correct them, but I’m not mad about it. It happens.

      I would hope they get it too, especially if they know you do try to go with they/them, and sometimes you slip. It’ll take time, you don’t have mal intentions. You’re just building the habit.

    5. Anon for this one*

      In my experience, the tricky thing about they/them as a gender-neutral pronoun is that a lot of people sort of… mentally edit it? This is something I struggle with–I’m pretty good about noticing and remembering when people are using neopronouns, but if someone is using they/them pronouns to refer to a third person, my brain doesn’t automatically go “Ah yes, that’s the pronoun that person wants to use.” It helps if the person speaking puts a little more obvious emphasis on the preferred pronoun and repeats it several times.

      Also, this is something for your boss to decide for themself, but pronoun pins are a godsend for me. I already struggle with names and faces and for some reason my screwed up brain often throws preferred pronouns down the same memory hole, especially if the people around me are repeatedly using the wrong one.

    6. Marvel*

      Speaking from my experience as a trans person:

      1) Just keep practicing. It really is practice. I used to mess up my OWN pronouns sometimes, and that’s without the added grammatical mess that is gender-neutral pronouns in English (why are verb tense like this?!). When you mess up, just correct it and move on: “he was–sorry, they were– telling me” etc.

      2) When people get it wrong, definitely continue using “they” to refer to boss/coworker in that conversation–hopefully, they’ll catch on on their own. But don’t go so far as to openly correct it without asking your boss/coworker if that’s what they want. Some people who go by “they” most of the time don’t mind gendered pronouns occasionally, or don’t want to worry about it with people who don’t know them well/work with them often, so it’s their call.

      Suggested script: “Hey, when people refer to you as ‘he/she,’ do you want me to let them know that you go by ‘they’ or just leave it alone? Do you want me to handle it differently when it’s a client vs. a coworker?”

      If they do want you to correct it: “Oh, Sam actually goes by ‘they.’ Anyway, they’ll be back in the office next week.” Continue to say this as though they just didn’t know, even if you’ve said it to them before. It adds social pressure to use the correct pronoun without making things awkward.

      1. Marvel*

        That said, please DON’T do what a coworker of mine has done in the past, which is to just loudly interrupt with “he/she/they” on top of the person speaking when they use the wrong pronoun, without explaining why. It’s confusing and rude. Take the extra three words to explain, “X goes by they,” so that people don’t think you’re a loon.

        (If they don’t catch on after you’ve told them, though… yeah, interrupt away.)

        1. Marvel*

          To clarify this coworker is not trans, he just thinks that being an amazing cis ally means being as rude and superior as possible when correcting people on pronouns. We don’t get along. I’ll stop replying to myself now.

  127. Consulting Gal*

    Hey Guys!

    I have been contract for the last few years for a large well known company. With the contract coming to an end in about 6 months. I scheduled a meeting with my boss to discuss potential internal opportunities. I am not sure with how to direct this meeting, I saw a opening that I would really enjoy thats available now, so I am hoping he will allow me to apply for the role with glowing recommendations. How can I sell myself so that he A) lets me apply and potentially leave the project early B) Actually get a role I am not completely qualified for.

    I am missing one of the required softwares (only a basic knowledge) I am extremely tech savvy and self taught my self several software to the point of becoming the go person in my department so I think I would do really well.

  128. AnnonLurk*

    This week is just a general ask with tips and tricks about staying positive at a job you used to love, but now hate.

    I’ve posted a few times before but as a quick rundown – Got hired to work somewhere I wanted to on a project I’ve always wanted to work on, promoted quickly and now mange most all aspects of it. However, we’ve had many cuts to the teams over the time Ive worked here, and I have to fight for support even though my project does pull in a decent amount of profit. The cuts have make some aspects of my work feel like I’m drowning and I’m getting paid about half of what the going market rate for my type of job is in the Bay Area. I want to quit with nothing lined up as I come home from work frequently exhausted, mentally drained and wanting to cry, but I know that that’s not always the smart decision. I did take a week off of PTO, but came back even worse off than I was before. I’ve gotten so forgetful from being depressed and anxious that I accidentally tried to stick my car keys in someone else’s car (!!) because I didn’t realize I had moved my car during a lunch break.

    I’ve applied to a few jobs and updated my LinkedIn and it looks like my profile is getting hits from recruiter searches but no ones approached me directly. So its been tough trying to stay positive.

    What would people suggest I do to keep my spirits up during and after work?

    1. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

      I wish you luck! I am in a similar boat so no advice. Took a job I loved. But over the past 2 years management has tacked on “one little thing” over and over until 80% of my job is “little things that don’t matter” and “20” stuff that matters but is not fun or challenging. I don’t have time to get to all the items I loved working on.

  129. DoctorateStrange*

    As a library school student and current library employee, I am thinking of creating a professional Goodreads that will contain books I’ve read that are also part of my library’s collection. I already have a personal Goodreads, but I wonder if this is worth any venture.

    1. Teapot librarian*

      What would your goal be in doing this, and will you have time to/remember to keep it up to date?

      1. DoctorateStrange*

        We have an app where employees’ profiles are displayed for patrons to contact and I noticed that it offered to connect this profile with social media accounts, including Goodreads. I was thinking of creating a professional version where I listed out books I’ve read from the library and rating them as a way to promote them.

    2. Temperance*

      I honestly don’t think it would be worth the time – what you’re thinking about is just an extra Goodreads account, just with a limited number of the books that you’ve read?

    3. An Anon Librarian*

      Why? I mean, is this for outreach or some other purpose? Because I can only see doing this if you know of a specific connection to your work otherwise.

  130. Pregnancy and job offers*

    Asking a question for a friend! She’s pregnant (but not showing) and has an interview. If she gets offered the job, she’s wondering when to disclose. The advice she’s found all says “as soon as you get the offer,” but she says she’s uncomfortable with that because it feels like a “gotcha” to her. If she stays at her current job, she wasn’t going to disclose until she was showing, in another month or so — so would it be reasonable to also wait until then if she takes a new job?

    Any advice/thoughts are welcome, but I think she’d be especially interested in input from people who’ve experienced this from the hiring side.

    1. fposte*

      I would disclose at the offer stage on the assumption that leave would need to be granted, since she won’t be eligible for FMLA yet, and it’s better to find out at that stage if it can’t be (remember that they don’t have to hold her job for her without FMLA, unless there’s a state protection that kicks in earlier). If the business has fabulous parental leave or she gets frontloaded three months of vacation or she’ll be eligible for leave under state law (I think California’s PDL kicks in immediately), however, I might not disclose until later.

    2. Schnoodle*

      That’s tough without knowing the full situation. Does she have a current gig she enjoys right now and is just changing for other reasons? If so, I’d advise her to actually stay.

      I work in HR, I’m a working mom, and I’m going to put it bluntly: discrimination against pregnant women and working moms is RAMPID. Just because there’s legal “protection” doesn’t mean there won’t be passive aggressiveness, retaliation, or just unpleasantness. Or even not hired solely based on her being pregnant. Just because it’s ILLEGAL, doesn’t mean it isn’t DONE. They get away with it because bringing up a suit is often times career ending, time consuming, and can be expensive. And, as mentioned a few times, they still get away with it.

      I wouldn’t have believed it if I hadn’t went through it myself.

      That said, some companies wouldn’t dream of being that way and have great policies in place and have a pumping room and lalala. I know some people who were hired when they were obviously pregnant at 7 months. But can she know that in advance?

      I didn’t want to come off discouraging, but wanted to share my experience.

      1. Pregnancy and job offers*

        I appreciate your sharing! She has a job she likes fine, but she wants a higher-paying job with real benefits and with work she finds more appealing, and the job she’s interviewing for has all that. If they don’t hire her, there’s no issue — but discrimination after she’s hired is something to think about.

    3. Overeducated*

      Think about it this way. 4 possible scenarios:

      1. She’s their top choice candidate and she waits until offer stage: they then have to figure out pregnancy accommodations and she feels a little guilty, but it probably all works out fine.

      2. She’s not their top choice and she waits until offer stage: they make an offer to someone else, she at least knows she wasn’t rejected for discriminatory reasons.

      3. She’s their top choice and she notifies at interview stage: either they hire her and everybody’s happiness is maximized, OR conscious or unconscious bias means she’s no longer their top choice and she loses out.

      4. She’s not their top choice and she notifies at interview stage: they make an offer to someone else, she worries she was rejected for discriminatory reasons, AND hiring committee is put in the uncomfortable position of worrying that their selection for professional reasons could get them in trouble if she does decide to pursue it as a discrimination issue.

      It seems a little counter-intuitive but I actually think waiting for an offer is the lowest risk of all of the options – even though notifying early and getting an offer would be the highest reward scenario it’s probably not worth it.

      1. Pregnancy and job offers*

        Yeah, she’s definitely not going to notify before an offer, for all the reasons you mentioned!

    4. DriverB*

      I was near the end of my first trimester while interviewing, and disclosed at the offer stage. The hiring manager didn’t do the best job of hiding her disappointment, but we went forward and everything worked out well. I was returning to a company I had previously worked for though, so I had a pretty good sense of how things would be handled. They granted me the full amount of leave, even though I didn’t make one of the stipulations for FMLA (# of hours worked in the past 12 months) (I did have a contingency plan in case that didn’t happen though).

      One thing to note is that if your friend is just getting an interview now, it could very well be another month or more before she gets to the offer or her start date, around the time she would be disclosing anyway. Good luck to her!

    5. An Anon Librarian*

      There is sadly still a great deal of pregnancy discrimination in this world. I would wait until the offer stage. Especially because of how FMLA works and the way leave would need to be granted.

  131. Asmodeus*

    I work in a creative field and have been job searching for a little over 6 months now. The accepted industry practice is to ask the final round of candidates to complete a design project related to the position. The last three times I’ve gotten to this stage, the project prompt has been enormous – the smallest one took 24 hours to finish, and the largest took 42. Further, there’s the need to create a hard copy of the presentation to show in the interview and printing/presentation materials can run from $30-200, depending on what is required. I have been out of work, so I’ve just been trudging through these massive projects (and scraping together funds to put together the physical copy) – I feel like I don’t really have a choice. I know AAM suggests a project should only take a few hours, but I feel like my industry is out of control. It’s especially demoralizing to sink the time and money, only to not get the job or worse, have the company ghost you.

    I’ve put my foot down on providing digital copies to avoid having my free work taken advantage of in that way, but I’m not sure what else I can do to advocate for myself given my unemployment. Has anyone else experienced this? Any tips or suggestions?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      That’s kind of ridiculous. If you’re doing that much work (and actually having to buy materials), they should be compensating you. What do your peers say about this process?

      1. Asmodeus*

        My peers are basically stuck in it too. It doesn’t feel like there’s room for pushback because the fashion industry in NYC is full of qualified candidates. If I won’t do the project for free, someone else will. Sometimes I think it’s a lazy way to knock people out of the process – assign a bunch of work, and if they say no or try to negotiate the terms, then they must not really want the job after all.

        I’ve actually gone in for interviews thinking my portfolio will be more than enough because the role is exactly in line with my previous experience, and was STILL assigned a project. I have an overflow of projects to use in my portfolio from all these jobs I haven’t gotten. BIG SIGH.

  133. Tara S.*

    Looking for commiseration and/or tech advice?

    My University job requires using many different systems that I access by logging into a portal. For security reasons, this portal is programmed to time out every half hour so I have to log back in. This is incredibly aggravating. There is a pop-up window that asks me if I would like to extend my session, and I always click it and it doesn’t make a difference.

    What’s worse, half the time when I try to log back in after a time-out, I get error messages. I have contacted IT, and they say the only way to clear the errors is to clear my browser cache. But that would mean I’m clearing my cache 4-6 times a day! I often open a new browser window in private mode, as a sort of soft cache clear, and sometimes even that doesn’t work. The problem happens on different browsers, different computers, in different buildings. I know other people who have this issue.

    AND YET, the IT people don’t act like this is a problem! They will apologize, tell you to clear your cache, maybe use a separate browser only for portal stuff so clearing the cache won’t affect all other browsing history. But there’s no “this is an ongoing problem we are trying to fix.” They don’t address it as a flaw! There seems to be no effort I can tell (after bringing it up in several forums) to even try and understand why this happens. I could understand if they were saying “here are some workarounds for the short term, we are trying to fix the problem,” but they offer these as if they are reasonable long term!

    I feel like this is unreasonable? Does anyone have any better advice than my IT people?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I’ve found there are generally two different types of IT people—people who want to do as much for you as possible, and people who want to do as little for you as possible.

      I’m fortunate to be in a department that’s more like the former than the latter. That said, we do have some outsourced web-based systems in place from vendors other departments have insisted we use (in other words, we as the tech department haven’t said “We recommend this” but have been told “We’re using this; get people set up on this”). For those systems, usually the best we can do it tell people to deal with it, because there’s literally nothing we can do (apart from yanking our vendor contract) about the problems.

      That said, it sounds as if you have the other kind of IT people, who really want to do as little for you as possible.

      Can you follow up and ask if others are experiencing the problem too, or if it’s just you? Tell them that clearing the cache isn’t working, and it’s making it difficult for you to do your job? Have you mentioned this to your manager?

      1. Red Reader*

        I refer to these as “help desk folks” and “helpless desk folks” :-P

    2. fposte*

      Sadder and wiser advice: it takes more than “unreasonable” before a whole university system gets overhauled. I would check with savvy colleagues to see if they’d developed workflow practices that minimize the inconvenience.

      1. KayEss*

        Yeah, having done time in university IT… it’s not gonna change. If the portal is a vendor product, someone in IT is probably having the same frustrations with the vendor as you are with them, while under a 3-5 year contract. If the portal is home-grown, it was probably originally built for IE6 by someone who has since retired and has had so many updates and add-ons that the result is a horrifying chimera of unmaintainable spaghetti code ready to unravel at a moment’s notice but nonetheless considered absolutely essential to university operations.

        1. fposte*

          Right. And also for some reason it’s handled through the med school or the flag-waving team because that’s where it was initially developed, so all feedback has to get routed there.

    3. BRR*

      It sounds unreasonable to me. I don’t have any other advice and I think fposte is right but can you tell them that this solution is unsustainable and ask what other options you have?

  134. Feeling foolish*

    Yesterday I gave my two-week’s notice… after 3 days of being at my new job. I feel terrible, but I knew immediately it wasn’t gonna work out.

    They’ve been great and have a 2nd choice candidate to pursue, and actually took me up on my offer to work for two weeks and help the team with a heavy workload! It’ll be awkward but I’m glad I could do SOMETHING to help.

    Margaritas tonight.

      1. Feeling Foolish*

        Thank you :) My old job actually took me back, so I’ll be working here for two weeks and then returning.

        I guess sometimes you have to make a choice to know it was the wrong one! I had dithered on taking the new job for so long.

        Happy Friday!

  135. perpetuallytired*

    How much time would people take for job application assessments?

    To be more specific, I’m applying for research positions that require, well, a lot of research and analysis. Most of the time, the research assessment assignments that companies give me take a weekend to complete – they give a hypothetical and I would apply my analysis to it. I think that’s a lot of time for a possible position (after only one phone interview usually) and I already have two masters degrees and working on a doctorate. I know how to research. But I’m desperate for a job :|

    So 1) how can I give companies a good idea of how I can fit well with them and 2) how much time should I devote to these assessments?

  136. Everything that could possibly go wrong*

    I’m posting this anonymously because it’s super identifying, but I didn’t want you guys to miss out on the story.

    I work at a public library that’s short staffed right now, and we’ve all been running our feet off for the last couple of weeks. One day this week, we had some electricians out to work on out lights, and they left to go get a part they needed (without telling us they were leaving or when they’d be back), but didn’t get back until the library had already opened. They left their lift and their tools out in the middle of the library and we didn’t know where they had gone. It was also story time day, so we had many, many preschoolers who REALLY wanted to touch all of the tools, so we were trying to shoo them all away.

    That’s when someone approached me and said “Hi, I’m from the Risk Management department. I’m here for your safety inspection.”

    *we did pass the inspection. I promised that we do not normally have construction equipment on site and she took my word for it.

    3. Mimmy*

      Oh geez! I hope you contacted whoever employs the electricians to tell them what had happened and that you had YOUNG CHILDREN who could’ve gotten hurt.

  137. Nita*

    So tired of sandwiches in my lunch. Who has suggestions for how to change things up a little without carrying around something messy/drippy?

    1. Almost Violet Miller*

      What works for me is salads of cooked beans, peas or chickpeas with other veg and meat. More substantial than a simple salad and for me it tastes great even without sauce added so it’s a pretty easy and clean thing to carry around.

      2. Red Reader*

        And if you’re looking at canned beans, I just saw at my local grocery store this weekend a product that’s varieties of seasoned canned beans, beyond the standard chili beans or baked beans. They had one kind that was in a garlic sauce, one that was a Cajun (creole?) inspired type a la red beans and rice, without the rice. A couple others.

        1. Nita*

          I like these ideas! I’m a big fan of beans and chickpeas so will definitely try it!

    2. katkat*

      – Wraps, I pack each “element” separately, then assemble it at work to keep it from getting soggy.
      – Salads, can add grains/proteins to make it more substantial and filling
      – Rice/quinoa/pasta/etc. and some protein (meat, lentils, beans, tofu, fish)
      Also, you can look into some sturdy glass containers with leak-proof lids. I got a set of 8 on Amazon for under $40! That way you can bring “messier” foods and still have them contained with no mess.

    4. Schnoodle*

      Leftovers! Sometimes we make a pasta dish at night just to pick it for our lunches. If you have access to a microwave, your options are almost limitless!

      Also, think of dips…hummus and crackers and carrots for instance.

      Salads, rice dishes, mac and cheese…

      (I’m vegetarian so no clue on meat stuff but you get my drift!)

    5. Nacho*

      Rice + protein (chicken or pork mostly, but you can do a beef bowl too if you’re feeling like Asian) is a great standby for lunch or dinner.

      1. JaneB*

        Frittata made in a muffin pan (veg of choice cut up small, I often cook extra of eg potatoes and broccoli and add canned corn for a quick option, pour over seasoned beaten eggs, bake until firm – add cheese or ham or whatever if you want more protein). Portable delicious non sandwich non drippy lunch!

        I also take butcher muesli in a jar or pot – refrigerator oats work. Or make a baked breakfast bar & take it with yoghurt and fresh fruit – doesn’t have to be restricted to breakfast!

  138. Caledonia*

    I did a presentation (informal chat) about my work specialism and that of my particular part of the team.

    Everyone says it was interesting and they learned a lot (which is great) but meanwhile I just feel like I waffled on and on and wasn’t clear and missed things out.

    Stupid brain :(

  139. Anon for this*

    There is a consultation on domestic abuse going on in my work at the mo. I’m one of the posters who recently left an abusive ex.

    I outed myself to the staff member running the consultation and had a call with her about what went well and badly work-wise through me leaving (mostly well FTR) which she said was really helpful. But I also submitted a response to the consultation and she’s come back to say it was really good and can she use some of my wording in the report?! (I also pointed her to the posts here about domestic abuse in work.)

    So that’s amazing. Really proud of myself.

      1. Anon for this*

        Thanks both!
        I really hope it will help others. Because of our field, if we get this right, we can help people beyond our organisation and possibly even beyond our field. It’s pretty amazing!

  140. Almost Violet Miller*

    This is more of a rant than a request for advice but it’s oh so annoying!

    I mentioned a few weeks ago that our office manager/receptionist was leaving (and was called a traitor for this by a manager, probably as a joke). Jane was really good at her job, knew the company inside out and wasn’t shy to ask questions when our vaguely documented flows weren’t delivering results.
    They hired her replacement really fast so they could have a few weeks of handover (common in my country). Mary admitted she was really scared of the job but took it anyway. She mentioned that she had said during her interview that she likes positions with clear guidelines and strong management. She was assured this is what she’s looking for (Fergus clearly lied there).

    Mary has been working alone for a good month and she’s growing more and more insecure. She’s doing okay but she relies on for help a lot. We help when we can but my dpt’s only commection to her job is that we sit in the office right behind her desk.

    When we know how to proceed is because we were friends with Jane and therefore had some visibility over her tasks/processes and knew what she was busy with. We don’t mention her in our office chitchat but when Mary asks for help it sometimes feels natural to say ‘this is what Jane used to to’ or ‘I remember Jane had a chart printed for this on her desk, isn’t it in the folder she gave you?’ etc.

    This doesn’t happen very often but I know we have sad such sentences. She has interpreted all of this as criticism of her work. We are trying to help (which is already becoming time-consuming and have to have it stop but that’s another story). The truth is, she’s really not great at her job, and it’s because she lacks necessary IT skills or experience.

    She has started to say that Jane never mentioned this or that, and then later realize that in fact it was part of the handover. When we say ‘hey, could you please…’ she hears Jane, could you please and corrects us her name is Mary.

    So frustrating!!!

  141. anonon today*

    What do you put in a resignation letter? If you’ve resigned in person but need the letter as a formality, what do you put in it?

    1. anonon today*

      Also how do you format it? Do you do a formal business letter with addresses and such? I’m so used to email that I’m not used to letters.

    2. HMM*

      No need to do anything fancy:

      “As previously discussed, I am resigning from my role of X as of Effective Date. Thank you for the opportunity to work at Company.”

      1. HMM*

        Doesn’t need to be formatted in any special way unless your company/industry norms demand it. Email suffices.

        1. Natalie*

          I had an HR department insist on a signed letter once. So I printed out the email I had already sent them and signed it.

    3. PB*

      It can be very short. Just say that you are resigning, and your last day will be ______. I conclude with something like, “Thank you for the opportunity. I wish you the best in the future.” That’s it. It’s really just a formality, so you don’t have to include very much.

    4. Anonymous Educator*

      I don’t think I’ve ever written a resignation letter before. I think one time I wrote a follow-up email just to confirm the last day that we talked about in person.

      1. Environmental Compliance*

        I’ve had to turn in resignation letters to all state/county agencies I’ve worked for as a formality for HR, but didn’t have to with the university I worked for – that was just an email. All the state/county agencies also required an exit interview, and if you declined or missed it for any reason, you’d be blacklisted from the agency (not just the department!! the entire agency!).

        Mine were all pretty much exactly as PB and HMM put above. As a note, all the ones I had to turn in required my actual signature. Dunno if that was just gov’t or what.

    5. Schnoodle*

      Just keep it simple.

      Please take this letter as my two week notice of resignation. My last day will be X.

      Seriously, even if there’s dark reasons for leaving, they probably already know it. I’d just add that if you’re moving by chance, add that too for your W-2.

  142. De Minimis*

    Got turned down for a few more jobs this week, though these at least were just applications and not things where I’d interviewed.

    I did hear about the interview with my former employer that I’d had about a month ago. They offered the job to someone else, but that person declined. I was told by HR that the hiring manager could either select another candidate or they could re-post the job. They chose to re-post the job….so that is probably that. They said previous candidates didn’t need to re-apply, but I wouldn’t anyway. And I don’t think they would have me interview again if they ended up not getting any better candidates, but if they did ask I wouldn’t do it.

    One thing I think is really hurting me…I work for a non-profit and prior to that I worked for the federal government. I’ve had some public accounting tax experience early in my career but that’s about it. I’m not getting any consideration from private companies, and that’s the majority of the jobs out there. I’m afraid I’m pigeonholed in the government/nonprofit sector, and the jobs are a lot fewer there [though this area is better in that respect than some others.]

    The good news…I finished my Continuing Education requirements to get my CPA license reactivated, and only need to take the ethics exam, so I’m hopeful I can be fully active by the end of the month. I’ve been licensed for over 8 years, and have been inactive for almost that entire time [my state allows you to renew as inactive.] I was unemployed when I got my license, and didn’t find a job until a few years later [it was the recession.] I never got around to reactivating it. I’m hoping getting the license active might help me find work, at the very least it will help my self-esteem!

  143. Not An Admin*

    Resumes and references (because I can’t seem to find anything):

    I’m looking around because advancement at my company is now basically nil. But I got into my field by starting as a temp here more than 5 years ago, so only my current boss and co-workers know about my work in this field, though I’ve made LinkedIn contact with some people that are no longer with the company (but they didn’t often work directly with me).

    What’s the best way to handle my references? I held a leadership position in my church for a few years, so the staff there can speak to some of my skills and work ethic, but not directly related to my field. I have one co-worker who knows I’m looking around, so can use her to speak to my specific expertise.

    I have NOT been listing references on my resume, or even that they’re available on request – I assume the “available on request” should be known. But is this holding me back in any way?

    I’ve made it to the final round twice in the last year, both for positions that would be growth from my current role. I’m sure I didn’t get the jobs because the companies had a candidate with better direct experience, but since neither asked me about references, I wonder if this is holding me back? We didn’t even discuss references in the interviews. (I have another interview coming up for a great transition, offered by a recruiter who found me on LinkedIn, so I’m trying to get everything together.)

    1. Cordelia Chase*

      Hi! As a former recruiter and job searcher, I can say that references are not typically brought up until the final stages of interviewing. If a company does references checks, they will ask for that information at some point in the process — some do it up front, others do it once an offer is made. In the latter case, the offer may be contingent upon passing reference and background checks.

      That said, I don’t believe the lack of references on your resume is holding you back. It sounds like you have decent references lined up, and there’s no need to include them or “available upon request” on your resume, for the very reason you stated :)

  144. Teapot cleaner*

    Hey guys, I wanted to give an update. A few weeks ago I wrote about conflict of interest in the job. My boss moved an employee with a bad attitude and lets her substitute as lead. 2 of her relatives work in this site too. So I went on an interview and I got the results that the job was cancelled. The position turned into a part time. So to my surprise yesterday my boss hired yet another relative of the same person. I feel really offended by that. I’m trying to wait it out this month then job search again. I can’t believe I have to witness things like this at work. Yet I’m still expected to perform.

  145. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

    I’ve been frustrated at work lately because it feels like I have to responsible for everything.

    I’m a program manager at a nonprofit; I’m responsible for delivering a program that involves about a half-dozen other staff — program facilitators, a data analyst, a technical consultant, administrative staff, etc. — but I don’t manage any of them (in fact, one of them is my manager).

    The team requires a LOT of follow up from me, and it’s super frustrating. It feels like I have to track every little detail that they are responsible for and follow up multiple times to make sure it gets done; I can’t just trust that they will do it. Examples: the admin is supposed to invite all the program participants to a meeting but only includes some of them on the calendar invite; the facilitator is supposed to send the admin the homework that he wants assigned to the participants so she can send it to them, but he forgets to send it; another facilitator is supposed to write a 300-word reflection to be included in an email to program alumni and I have to remind him literally five times and it’s eventually delivered three weeks late.

    I know how to have this conversation with someone I manage… but most of these folks are my peers or outrank me. One of the facilitators has a sort of “emeritus” status around here and is given a lot of leeway (because he’s incredibly talented as a facilitator; it’s worth it to the org to put up with his flakiness, but ugh it makes my life hard).

    My manager is one of the worst culprits. I talked with him about the pattern (but didn’t call him out specifically) and asked for advice. He didn’t have any suggestions.

    Any ideas?

    1. AnotherJill*

      Are you able to use some sort of process management software? That can be one way to keep everyone aware of their deadlines and responsibilities. Although, enforcing the use of it can be a whole other issue.

  146. Lizzy*

    Before my last review (in December), I did my research and put together a (what I thought) strong argument for me to be promoted and a substantial pay increase. My job has changed dramatically since I started 4+ years ago, and so I took the risk and went for it!
    I was basically told that I do great work and they really appreciate me, but no promotion and not nearly as much of a raise as I wanted. Our organization’s hierarchy is pretty flat, so I understand that I can’t necessarily take my boss’s job unless she quits, but I honestly kind of expected them to come back with “Ok you can’t be ThisJob Director but you can be Senior ThisJob instead of just ThisJob”.
    I honestly was a bit stunned and rather disheartened that all my hard advocating work was for (almost) nothing, that I didn’t argue or try to negotiate at all in my review. Of course now it’s been almost 5 months, but I’m wondering if it’s worth it to revisit and/or ask how I *can* get a promotion or more $$?
    For context, I do think I’ll end up leaving this position in a year+ (likely moving), and we have a new mid-year review coming up.

    1. Seriously?*

      I don’t think it is worth it to try again so soon, and would probably come across as tone deaf. You already presented your arguments. Unless something significant has changed, you already know their answer. I was wondering about the job title. You say that your organization has a rather flat hierarchy. Is the title you were trying to get one that exists in the company or were you trying to insert some more layers int he hierarchy?

    2. BRR*

      I’m in an incredibly similar situation. I think it depends on if their response was no promotion or we can’t do director. The raise might be more of a definitive answer though.

    3. zora*

      I think a mid-year review is a perfect time to ask! Do the regular part of the review first, but then at the end (if it’s not already part of the structure), make sure to talk about the things you would like to develop/what you would like to be doing more of. And then mention that you were wondering about not getting the promotion. What can I do to be in the position to get a Senior ThisJob title and/or a raise? What is a reasonable timeline on that?

      If boss is too vague or says “I don’t know” I would push a bit on that, ask when you could have a follow up meeting, or if there is someone else you should ask. 5 months might be too early to “expect” a promotion now, but at any reasonable company, you should have some idea of what the parameters are to get considered for one and what the timeline is. If they say the timeline is 5 years, at least then you HAVE that information and can make an informed decision or your career!

  147. Incogneato*

    Does anyone know of any jobs training or scholarships for noncustodial, single parents?

    Long story short, my brother has a daughter, unplanned, and is underemployed. The mother works in the same field, but has the proper credentials and makes 2.5x more than he does. He really wants to be able to help support his daughter (he already covers all of the monetary expenses) and wants a chance of sharing custody, but doesn’t see being able to take an internship or part-time job or volunteering in his field anymore.

    He was a communications major and is interested in looking for training in a more vocationally secure track.

    1. strawberries and raspberries*

      If you’re in NYC, there is definitely a program like that through Goodwill that offers a lot of different trainings like CDL, IT support, woodworking, hospitality, etc.

    2. AnotherAlison*

      Naming the field may help. Scholarships and programs can be industry-specific.

      1. Incogneato*

        He’s a teacher now, but doesn’t have his license or an ed degree/certificate. He’s always liked working with kids, but sort of fell into teaching after substitute teaching.

        He has experience in the hospitality industry.

        1. AnotherAlison*

          Interesting. I think there may be lots of things in education he could look into. I don’t know a whole lot about it, but my sister got an M.Ed. after getting a BSc and subbing, etc., so I remember her looking at different options.

          My state has an alternative certification program where someone with a bachelors degree does certain prescribed coursework and training and then earns a restricted license.

          There are also student loan forgiveness programs for teachers who teach in qualifying schools, so he could possibly go through and get the standard teaching credits and licensure, then pay it back that way.

          I would go to the local university or community college and talk to counselors. They should know about any alternative options or scholarships.

  148. Anon Techie*

    Question for everyone. How do you gracefully decline a job/interview offer?

    I’m finally in a position in my career where I feel comfortable turning down offers (including interview offers, because those take up time at the very least), but I don’t know how to diplomatically do that. I have a strong tendency to be agreeable to make everyone like me, so often times I feel uncomfortable saying “no,” especially when the other person pushes and says they’re disappointed or asks “are you sure?” I worry about burning bridges in the future.

    Asking this because this week I had a negative first stage interview — I’m kind of pessimistic about the long term success of the company’s product, and the interviewer was weirdly ignorant and condescending. Waiting to hear back from their recruiter, but I don’t want to continue the process. Normally I’ve said something like “It was good to speak with the team, but after learning more, I don’t think that [quality X] makes the company the best fit for me,” but I just feel uncomfortable talking about it.

    1. Seriously?*

      You don’t have to give a reason. Just say that you don’t feel it is a good fit.

    2. Let's Talk About Splett*

      Just email the hiring manager that you have decided that it’s not the right position for you at this time. Thank them & wish them luck.

    3. Environmental Compliance*

      I’ve had that happen before. The interview totally put me off the entire dept & the position. I thought I bombed the interview, too.

      But I got an offer the next day from that dept and another I interviewed in with the same state agency (which went oodles better). I declined by stating that I didn’t think it would be the best fit, and then promptly accepted with the other dept.

      It’s okay to say no! Just like they can decline you, you can most definitely decline them. Make it succinct & professional, and don’t get into a whole lot of reasons.

    4. Schnoodle*

      Usually this comes from head hunters. The answer is easy:

      Thank you for reaching out. I’m happy where I am now though, but I wish you luck in your search!

      If I like the company/position I might add:

      Thank you for reaching out to me. For now I’m happy where I’m at but would be interested in similar positions int he future (or positions with that company). If I know of anyone interested, I’ll let you know.

      I’m always nice and responsive to head hunters, you never know when you’ll get in a pickle so…keep them as friends.

      1. Anon Techie*

        TBH, in my industry, headhunters/external recruiters (trying to place people at jobs with multiple different companies) can be weirdly argumentative. I usually send a polite “thanks, but I’m not looking. I wish you the best of luck!” note. About 1/3 of the time I get a response back arguing that I should take the interview, their client is great and offers a very competitive comp package, etc.

        My industry is very favorable to employers, so I get that they’re anxious to make the sale, but it bugs me to get a “no, you’re wrong” reply to a polite message and I’m disinclined to work with people who do that.

    5. Anon Techie*

      After writing this out, I feel silly. There’s nothing wrong with politely saying “Thanks for your time, but I don’t think this is the best position for me right now, but best of luck!” or something else that’s similar and really diplomatic.

      I just have a problem with saying no. Which is another issue, ha.

  149. Sugarplum*

    Hello, I need advice on reapplying to a company I left four months ago.
    Had nice but kind of boring customer service role , and U left on good terms. Have OK job now, but really miss old company as an employer, and am lonely in my current admin role. Just saw an opening at OldCompany that I definitely would have applied for if still there.
    Is it too late? Will I look too flakey? Should I make any contact in addition to application/resume/cover letter? Thanks.

    1. Schnoodle*

      I’d make contact with your old boss if you have a decent relationship. And apply per protocol of course.

  150. Not So Little My*

    I’ve been unemployed for about 7 weeks now and had a really great interview yesterday for a position that I would accept if it were offered. I think it went really well and the questions they asked enabled me to show my mastery of my skills and to communicate well. It is contract-to-perm through an agency, and the agency recruiter I am working with says that this employer usually makes a decision pretty rapidly, so I am hoping to hear something back today. Needless to say, I am very nervous. I think I did well, but I know not to count on it because there could always be some reason for them to say no. Not knowing the outcome is so anxiety-producing!

    1. Eric*

      The only decent method I’ve found for handling that anxiety is finding other stuff to occupy your time with. Good luck!

  151. Friday Fan*

    Has anyone written a book (or done some other large project) outside of their normal 9-5 job? How did you balance the two without burnout?

    1. Manders*

      I have! I write fiction for fun, and I usually crank out between 50,000 and 120,000 words a year (it depends on what else is going on in my life that year). I can’t claim it’s great fiction but it’s a rewarding hobby for me.

      Lately I’ve been feeling pretty burned out for non-work reasons, so I’ve been thinking pretty hard about how I prioritize my free time. Some things that help me:
      – Making sure I’m not sacrificing my physical health for writing time. I’ve got a gym membership and I also try to go to a martial arts class twice weekly.
      – Having word count goals to hit so that the writing project isn’t this giant nebulous time suck consuming my every waking hour.
      – Finding some friends who are also creative and understand when I need to protect my writing time.
      – Getting out of the house on weekends, but not for every possible hour every weekend. So: grocery run on Saturday morning, then writing time, then gym time, then heading to a bar with friends.
      – Finding a job that’s NOT writing-focused. I crashed and burned so hard when I was trying to crank out the words at work and at home.

    2. Cedrus Libani*

      Early in my career, I found myself in charge of a volunteer project that became a much bigger deal than I’d expected. I didn’t let it encroach on my work hours, but if I was awake and off the clock, I was probably working on this project.

      I was shocked at how much less effective I was at my job during those few months. I didn’t realize how much I relied on mulling things over in spare moments – showering, waiting in line, etc – until all my thinking time was redirected to something else. And by the end, I was exhausted from trying to be “on” all the time. If I wanted to make a habit of doing major side projects, I’d need a less cognitively demanding day job.

      I’ve done long-term personal projects since then, but they’ve been things I can do at my own (slow) pace. I like setting aside a weekend afternoon as Project Time. I’ve got a friend who wakes up an hour early for Project Time, which is probably even better, but I’m allergic to mornings.

  152. Anxa*

    Vent:

    My job does not require me to produce anything and at this point in the semester I have a lot of down time. I have days where I do nothing for 6 hours.

    I would love to use this time to study, job search, research, but my work environment is terrible.

    Office 1:
    Super loud. Food is allowed in this computer lab and everyone has a bag of chips. I am losing my mind. It’s a constant stream of people eating. Mostly coworkers, but students, too. Bought headphones, but it’s more important for me to be approachable than productive.

    Computer station A: good height. Small monitor. No desk space at all for a book, other papers. Peeling desk top hurts my wrists, clothes.

    Computer station B: Good monitors. On high chairs. Cannot put feel on floor. Circulation gets cut off.

    Office 2:
    Quiet. No eating. Usually warm enough to type. Keyboards are in drawers. When drawers are fully open, there’s no wrist support unless I push back keyboard so it’s under the desk and there’s no clearance for my hands. Wide open desk taunting me.

    So many computers, so much down time, so hard to get anything done.

      1. Anxa*

        My laptop is a 2008 and has gotten really slow lately. Plus, I don’t like to bring it because then I have to put it away every time I use the bathroom; plus I take the bus and just don’t feel great carrying it around when I don’t have to.

    2. fposte*

      Can you find a footrest (I use a plastic footstool or a box) for computer station B?

      1. Anxa*

        I am sure I could, although it is quite high.

        I found some cardboard boxes that were high enough, but were too deep (its’ a very shallow counter). I’m going shopping today, so I’ll look around!

        There’s room in a closet to store it.

    3. Anxa*

      (Mostly wanted to vent a bit, which helps me get over my physical discomfort to concentrate better).

      I do think I might talk to my supervisors about the headphones. It’s not just a matter of getting things done, but I have one coworker who I need to try to block out to keep my overall sanity.

  153. Little Bean*

    How annoyed should I be? I work at a university with a group of student volunteers. For the most part, they are great and I am constantly impressed with how much effort they are willing to contribute with no compensation. A couple of weeks ago, I started planning an end-of-the-year thank you event. Most of the students gave me a wide range of availability but one student, Devon, told me there was only a single day/time that worked for them, out of the 10+ options I offered. I double checked with Devon that that was the only time that worked, they confirmed, so I scheduled the event for that day and time. Then, a few days before the event, I got a text from Devon saying that they had gotten the day mixed up and were at the location waiting for us. I replied as if it were a funny mistake, asked again if the original day/time still worked and Devon confirmed that it did. Now, the day before the event, Devon has texted me again saying that they already rearranged their work schedule because they thought the event was the other day, so they don’t want to ask to rearrange again and they won’t be able to make it after all. They actually asked if we could reschedule our event; I explained that I thought it would not be fair to the rest of the group to reschedule with such short notice (less than a day!).

    On the one hand, this is a volunteer role and it was an optional thank-you event, so it’s not a big deal if someone can’t make it. But on the other hand, Devon is the reason we scheduled the event at this time in the first place, and I’m a bit annoyed at having to manage their lack of responsibility. Is this valid? Devon has generally been a good contributor to our program all year, although definitely a bit more high-maintenance in scheduling than our other volunteers (as in, has more preferences and less availability). They are continuing with the program next year so I’m not sure if I should say something now to avoid future repeats…

    1. Anxa*

      I’d more more confused than annoyed:

      “Then, a few days before the event, I got a text from Devon saying that they had gotten the day mixed up and were at the location waiting for us. I replied as if it were a funny mistake, asked again if the original day/time still worked and Devon confirmed that it did”

    2. fposte*

      I think there’s enough lesson in the message of “Devon, we can’t reschedule this event once it’s confirmed; we’re sorry you won’t be able to join us.”

      And I would try to walk myself back from “Devon is the reason we had it at this time in the first place!” It was always going be at only one of the 10+ times at the expense of the others, and unless that particular time is a hardship in another way, there’s no reason to hold that against Devon. It’s just what lends a particular irony to their repeated difficulty with the schedule.

    3. Seriously?*

      I would be annoyed too. I wouldn’t say anything, but I would be less inclined to schedule things around his availability in the future.

  154. CopperPenny*

    I’m job searching. My current company is small. 3 employees plus owner and super toxic. Ive been job searching but the part that I keep messing up is why do I want to leave. So far what seems to be the best is to say that it’s a small company and my duties have regressed since they bought out my previous company.

    The problem is it’s not quite true. My duties have regressed but the office manager is being forced out and I’m being groomed to take her spot without the title.
    Also the roles I’m looking at right now are equal with my current job so it seems odd to say.
    So I’m currently making something up on the spot. Normally about how this neiche in the field isn’t for me and I’m not comfortable in something I’m being trained it. But that’s a really bad thing to say and I think it’s why I’m not getting past phone interviews. Any advice?

    1. k.k*

      This post has some great ideas and wordings that I’ve actually used several times.

      https://www.askamanager.org/2016/10/can-you-say-youre-looking-for-a-new-job-because-you-want-a-new-challenge.html

      I’ve been able to learn a huge amount during my time here and have gone from painting teapots to training new teapot makers and overseeing our Teapots on the Town program. But now I’m really interested in taking on more responsibility for teapot strategy, and because we’re such a small team, there’s not a lot of opportunity for me to do that here. That’s why I’m excited about the role you have open — it’s exactly what I want my next move to be.”

      This is the one form the post that I use a variation of. It answers their question, but gives a good transition away from talking about your old job and focusing the conversation on why you want this new job.

  155. Ermintrude Mulholland*

    I am in the uk and on maternity leave. Our non profit has just announced a range of redundancies and I don’t want any of the jobs they’re offering.

    Apart from battling hr to make sure they pay me what they should, it’s sort of ok as we are relocating soon. But I am sad. One of my team mates has been badly bullied by the maternity replacement whilst we’ve been out. My maternity leave buddy isn’t coming back to the job she expected either and our lovely team has been torn apart. And whilst I knew I ultimately wasn’t going to be able to go back anyway, being made redundant feels – different. And worse I was so proud of working there.

  156. SorryWhatNow?*

    I’m annoyed at some negative feedback at work. My manager told me that someone felt I could be more sensitive about a particular type of comment. No one was actually complaining, but it was a “just in case” because “this is an open concept office and anyone could hear.”

    The thing is … I can’t imagine what I could have said that was insensitive about that topic. And of course, in the interest of anonymity, my manger wasn’t going to tell me who said it (not that I pressed), but also couldn’t tell me when I was apparently insensitive or what I said.

    I can’t even begin to guess and that’s so frustrating! Of course I’ll watch what I say even more, but at the same time, I have no gauge if this was a legitimate comment or if someone what being ridiculous and making an issue where there wasn’t one. Nothing really to do move forward but be careful. All the same, it’s made me fairly unhappy to hear.

    1. Seriously?*

      That is the least helpful kind of feedback. My opinion is that if someone doesn’t want to give actionable feedback, they should keep it to themselves. All this type of feedback is going to do is make you paranoid.

  157. gmg22*

    Any thoughts about how to handle a manager who can’t “let go” of a pet project? My research nonprofit is divided into regional teams, and my boss took on the director role for our team (I’m the comms person for this particular team) last year. To do that he had to leave behind managing a project he was really invested in — he had started the ball rolling conceptually and in the space we work in, the ideas involved are getting a lot of mileage. But he couldn’t both run the team and continue to take the lead on researching/writing this project, which is going to be our highest-profile output this year. (While also holding positions on two professional boards that take up at least 25 percent of his time, but that’s a story for another day.)

    So the project was handed off to be led by another colleague, who has himself done plenty of research in this area and is well-equipped to handle it. We’ve had a lot of slings and arrows on this one (for example, another colleague providing key contributions had to have unplanned surgery and was out of commission for some time). But some of them are absolutely self-inflicted wounds by the boss — he spent MONTHS dragging his feet on reviews, then sending us back to the drawing board, changing his mind and then changing it back again. To cap that off, his response after a peer review process which included representatives from our key audience giving raves to this work … was that he’s “still concerned that the paper has a lot of problems” (because ONE colleague at another org had flagged a few things he thought could be clarified). The light bulb then went on over my head: HE WANTS TO HAVE WRITTEN THE PAPER HIMSELF, and he can’t get over the fact that he didn’t get to do it.

    This is a problem for me because I am trying to plan a rollout/outreach for this work, and without a date for when we are finally going to commit to get the paper out, I can’t do that. We have an important professional networking event upcoming over the summer where we want to promote this (if we miss this window, we have to wait until the fall for the next such event) AND a contract deadline in the fall from our funder to have the work done. Somehow even spelling out these deadlines doesn’t seem to sink in. And my colleague writing the paper is basically going bananas, and putting a lot of it on me (swinging by my office to rant and rave daily — our boss isn’t located in our office).

    Anybody navigated a situation like this and have sage wisdom that could help me get this dang thing across the finish line?

    1. Cedrus Libani*

      Sounds like my last boss. I can mostly suggest whiskey, and / or a fulfilling life outside work, sorry.

      As far as practical strategies, I would suggest keeping good records – save every version separately, along with whatever research / graphics / etc went into that version, and keep a log of what’s in that version. You are inevitably going to be told to change something, and then told to change it back, so copy-paste will be your best friend here.

      Along those lines, I had a colleague who swore by adding a small mistake, so that the boss would find it, feel useful, and then wave the rest through. Didn’t work on my boss, but does work sometimes.

      Also – document, document, document. After every verbal conversation with my crazy boss, I sent an email summarizing the discussion and what had been agreed upon. My boss tried to get me dismissed for gross incompetence, after I’d wasted rather a lot of time and money on something that was obviously a bad idea…I was able to produce the email chain from months earlier, in which I explained why this wouldn’t work, and was told to do it anyway or be fired for insubordination. Saved my butt. Documentation mostly doesn’t help with the immediate problem (IME it usually just makes them madder) but it can save you from a trip under the bus when THEIR bosses get involved.

      Sooner or later, when the feces hits the fan, this is going to be your problem. If you can quietly get ready for the moment when it’s suddenly “OMG we need everything done yesterday !!1!”, do so.

      Until then, to the extent you can, let it not be your problem. The boss gets to make the rules. If the boss wants to spend two hours berating you for using Arial instead of Times New Roman? Their choice. The boss wants you to spend the next two weeks thinking happy thoughts about the paper, to imprint it with positive vibes? Their choice. As long as the paycheck clears, they can waste your time as flagrantly as they want. You can draw boundaries with your complaining co-worker, too – this sucks, but there’s nothing we can do, so let’s talk about literally anything else.

      If this is normal, I’d start job hunting yesterday. If this is an isolated incident, and you’re happy there otherwise…take a deep breath, and do what you can to let it roll off your back.

    2. Tabby Baltimore*

      Could you possibly get through to him by talking about this in terms of what the hit to his reputation will be if he doesn’t get the paper, and the subsequent project depending on it, out within the company leaders’ expected time frame?

  158. Notasecurityguard*

    2 seperate questions:
    1. The principal at the school I work at is severely lacking in leadership soft skills (Which is weird cause one on one he’s a perfectly fine human). Should I purchase the ask a manager book, flag relevant sections, and anonymously leave it in his Mailbox? I know gifts are supposed to flow downwards but this is less of a gift and more of a “You suck at your job, here’s a list of your faults you piece of excrement” (It’s cool I’m in a union)

    2: said principal has notified me that on Monday he plans to give me a written memo outlining that he expects me to violate school district policy, the law, and common sense. When I pass it along to my actual boss in the name of “clarification” what is the appropriate level of laughter at the fact that this guy put his own fireable offense into writing unprompted. (Also as a police officer with professional integrity, and personal ethics, and an understanding that physically manhandling children of color by a white police officer is REALLY REALLY bad PR, I’m obviously going to respectfuly refuse to follow the orders)

    1. Notasecurityguard*

      I should clarify. He wants me to use “low level force” to respond to code of conduct offenses like leaving the classroom.

      1. SpaceNovice*

        Isn’t it nice when they hang themselves? And I know the laughter part is joking, but you’re allowed to 100% mentally gloat about this as you forward this memo to your boss, while taking the violations super seriously on the outside. SOME PEOPLE.

        You may want to give a heads up to your boss that it’s coming, depending on how things work where you are and tell them that the actionable proof will be coming soon. Of course, that risks ruining their weekend, but it’s not like you’re the one causing this. It’s the principal’s fault.

    2. JamieS*

      Why bother with the book I don’t think that passive aggressive tactic will work anyway) if he’ll be fired for #2? Also how is “low level of force” manhandling? Did he actually say to manhandle children and specifically said minority children? That’s just… wow.

      1. Notasecurityguard*

        Well it was a specific child in this particular instance where I said no (But diplomatically) and I said “I can’t physically drag him back to the classroom” to which he replied “yes you can” to which I (quietly so as to not undercut his authority) said “Actually sir I can’t as it would be a violation of departmental policy and orders from the chief inspector, and in light of [Well publicised local incident of police use of excessive force against a child of color for a non-criminal offense] the department is REALLY cracking down on this.” To which he replied “i don’t care I’m your boss (sidenote: he isn’t) do what I say or I’ll write you up for insubordination.” As I understand the memo will be to that effect and when my actual boss sees it he’ll go ballistic

        1. School Psych*

          I’ve worked in school’s for 10 years and your principal is 100 percent incorrect. In every school I’ve worked in, if a student walked out of class security was allowed to re-direct them and ask them to go back in, follow them at a distance and watch the cameras to see where they went and call local police and the student’s parent if the student walked out of the building to alert them to the situation. The only time I’ve ever seen building security or school safety officers(community police officers) go hands-on was to break up a physical fight that they had attempted to deescalate in other ways first. There’s normally very specific protocols in districts for when staff can go hands-on and what staff is allowed to do this(IE: trained in appropriate, non-violent crisis intervention restraint holds). You could probably draft a letter with your own response to why this request is not appropriate so you would have it ready to respond to your district, if your principal writes you up for insubordination.

        2. envirolady*

          Just want to say — thank you for protecting these kids the right way. Your fake boss is a madman and will get what is coming to him once you “review” this with your boss.

  159. KR*

    Thank you to everyone who offered advice on business schools. I’ve talked to an admission counselor at SNHU, calculated the part time cost per year, run it by my husband (totally doable!), and narrowed it down to a BA in Business Administration with a focus in Finance. I figure it’s the most applicable to a wide variety of fields and it will enable me to find a job almost anywhere in the country. Job security is my number one concern – I like to know that I have a regular paycheck coming in and my mental health suffers a lot when I’m unemployed. Any Business Administration – Finance majors here? What type of job do you do (position name or duties?)

    1. Little Bean*

      I was not a business major, but I do work with college students and I just wanted to say that there is no major that guarantees you a job. My concern about your post is that you only say you think this major will apply to the most jobs – do you actually want a job in finance? Do you like dealing with financial data and spreadsheets and will you want to do that every day? Just make sure that you’re not so focused on finding a job that you forget to think about what kind of job you really want. For example, I majored in History – now I’m an analyst. I do work that involves analyzing problems and data, identifying solutions, writing reports and making presentations, and communicating well with a range of people. A business major would not necessarily have prepared me any better than a humanities major, and I got to study the thing I really liked.

      Your best shot at getting a job is to major in something that you will do well in (which usually means something that you enjoy, are motivated to pursue and that matches your skill set well) and gain as much practical experience outside the classroom as possible.

      1. KR*

        I work in financials right now, got my Associate in Business Administration, and enjoy accounting/business because I’m good at it. Thank you though! I know it won’t guarentee me a job but I’m mostly looking for something that will apply to a wide range of industries and areas of the US as husband and I will move around in the next 10 years.

    2. Temperance*

      I would highly recommend that you do some digging on their reputation before committing. They’re online-only, right?

      1. KR*

        They have a campus. They’re well respected in New England where I am from and the program is accredited by the ACBSP.

  160. MegPie*

    In a small company (20-40 employees) do you think it’s appropriate for senior management to send a company-wide email disallowing flexible work schedules (which about 50% of the company takes advantage of) without any warning to the employees?

    1. The Person from the Resume*

      Yes. This is senior management announcing a change in policy. I personally think the policy change sucks, but there’s nothing inappropriate about it.

      If the policy was “starting today” then that does suck for people who have to change things with childcare and other appointments that conflict with the new standard hours. I think it would be nice to give a couple of week’s notice.

      What would have a “warning” allowed? Or do you really mean you wanted a chance to talk them out of it?

    2. I'm A Little TeaPot*

      They can do it. However, there’s a pretty decent chance that they’re going to have 50% turnover soon.

    3. animaniactoo*

      If by “without warning” you mean it went out Monday and is “As of Monday”, then no, it’s not appropriate given how much of your workforce works that way and may need to make alternate arrangements. Doesn’t mean they can’t do it. Just that they’re being really jerky and cavalier with their employees lives and their potential non-work responsibilities.

      If by “without warning” you mean “As of date two weeks from now this practice will no longer be allowed” then yes, it’s appropriate.

      Although, they may deal with a lot of fallout from late/leaving for another job employees as a result of the fast stop vs a phase out.

    4. You don't know me*

      Was it just like “starting Monday everyone will be required to work 9am-5pm, no exceptions”? While that really sucks and could have been handled in a much better manner, it is allowable.

      1. You don't know me*

        I actually had a boss that decided he could change people’s schedule whenever he wanted as long as he gave them two weeks notice. People who had been working 8-4:30 for years he suddenly made change to 9:30-6. Then he couldn’t understand why there was a mass exodus of internal transfers to other departments or people just leaving all together. And this was just him being a jerk. There was no good business reason to have that many people work later. I actually needed more people at 8am because we had early deadlines but he refused to change some people back. So instead I spent months seriously short staffed at my busiest time of day and then had multiple people sitting around doing nothing for the last two hours of the day.

    5. Seriously?*

      I think it depends in part on how official the flexible schedule was to begin with. If it was actually the policy that people could set their own hours, then some time in between announcing and implementation is needed. If technically this hours had always been required but no one enforced it, then I don’t think that it is unreasonable to say that they are going to enforce an existing policy.

  161. Beautiful, talented, brilliant, powerful musk ox*

    So, I’m having some awkwardness at the office and I’m not sure how to respond. I got a job late last year in a new industry for me, but I’m a quick learner and am doing really well. I’m happier than I’ve been at work in a LONG time, genuinely enjoy what I’m doing, and my team is great.

    Long story short, I’d actually interviewed for a better position at the company months before getting this one. They obviously hired someone else and I seriously have no hard feelings there. I know I was on the shortlist (I’ve been told as much repeatedly) and business is business. They went with who they thought was best.

    Fast forward to a few months ago: my boss was really impressed with my work and started giving me more responsibility. Some of this included things that she would normally assign to the person who got the better job. Some of this included things that are NO ONE’S job, like taking notes for my boss at meetings she attends. My boss loved my work a lot and began to lean on me for help in areas that, while technically outside of the scope of my role on paper, supported the project that our team was working on.

    Anyway. The coworker who got the better position has been dropping some passive-aggressive lines about not being invited to meetings. As of a few weeks ago, my boss has actually moved on, and while my new boss doesn’t have me go to meetings or do much to keep him organized the way my old boss did, I’m still getting weird comments about not being invited to meetings.

    Guys. I was only in 90% of these meetings to take notes for my disorganized boss. There was ONE project that I actually had input on. Quite a few of these meetings happened when my coworker was out sick. Even beyond that: I had no control over who attended these meetings and the person who had control isn’t even with the company any longer!

    I just never know how to respond. I’ve settled on a rather awkwardly-time, “Yeah…I don’t know about that.” But would love some input. I like my coworker and I hate passive-aggressive stuff. It just seems like there are very few ways for me to respond to these statements when I had no control over what was happening. I’m literally just trying to be good at my job over here and am helping my managers in the ways they request.

    1. k.k*

      I would just shrug and smile and say, “I don’t know about that. Have you asked Boss/Meeting Scheduler about that?” If they respond with a passive aggressive comment about how it’s no big deal, they don’t need to ask about it, it’s just odd… you say, “Well, I don’t know how they decided who attends. Anyways, did you see the TPS reports/how about them Tigers/see you later”

      I know it’s easier said than done, but don’t let these comments get to you. This is their problem, not yours. Keep a positive tone, redirect the conversation, and keep doing great at your job. It they want to stew and be upset, that’s their business.

    2. Seriously?*

      I think you have two options, depending on what the comment is specifically. A lot of the time you can just ignore it unless it was a question or request. “I didn’t get invited to the meeting!” does not necessitate a response. You can also say “You keep bringing that up and I’m confused. I don’t determine who goes to those meetings. What do you expect me to do?”

  162. Anon Accountant*

    So I like my new job (started Monday) and want to do well. I’m incredibly fortunate to have landed this job and want to “impress” them.

    I have some imposter syndrome going on but am working to overcome that. This sounds dumb but how can I show “awesome”? I want to do well and am skilled but want to show they made the right decision in hiring me. Thanks!

    1. Higher Ed Database Dork*

      Congrats on your new job! To show your “awesome,” I’d demonstrate a teachable attitude. Take notes, ask questions. Show that you are interested in the work and how things are done. Think before speaking. Figure out as much as you can on your own (google!).

      I’ve trained a lot of new hires and the one thing I heard a lot – that drove me crazy – is constant comments of “that’s not how we did things were I was before.” It’s okay to say that as an explanation of your thought process every now and then, but this was more like complaining – these people didn’t seem like they wanted to do things differently than how they had done stuff at the previous job. This is bizarre to me, because every job does things differently! Even if it’s the same industry, same toolset – it’s just a different environment. Of course processes will be different. So anyway – I think being open and teachable is the best thing you can do right now.

    2. sange*

      Use the weekend to prep! Remind yourself of everyone you met and what you talked about. Do final prep about the company, its initiatives, and new skills you’ll need for the job…dress appropriately for your first day (whatever other people were wearing at your interview), be gracious, and do not come in ready to boss everyone around with what they are doing wrong – unless that’s why you were hired.

      Good luck and congratulations!!

    3. The Ginger Ginger*

      Definitely go in with the attitude to learn. Be active in your training. Listen A LOT. I know that sounds kind of passive as far as advice goes, but people will be impressed by that. Having a know-it-all/unteachable attitude is really obvious and is the fastest way to make a negative impression when just starting a new role.

  163. blergarg*

    guyyyss I just interviewed with an HR rep for a small start up, in a role that I REALLY want, and he said he’ll get back to me within two weeks.

    SO NERVOUS.

    Also approaching a time when things really really ramp up at work, and it’s going to be really hard to get away for a second interview if I get one. I’m going to have to pretend to have a doctor’s appointment, I think..

    Any advice on how to navigate this?

  164. nailed second interview!*

    Had a second interview at one of my Bucket List companies this morning and nailed it, yay! The head honcho asked me to email him my salary considerations. This is legit the first time I’ve ever gone for a job at this level or in this fashion–no posted job, they called me in on a recommendation from a colleague, will be creating a position for me. I’m not sure how to do this next part! I have a range I think they’ll meet, but my current position has more than 2x as much PTO as this company gives to new joiners. (Thanks to my colleague for making the jump there a few months ago and giving me great intel.) Do I bake that into my email now or wait for an offer and then negotiate? Do I give a range or pick my high number and give that alone? I don’t want to box myself in like I did with my current and way underpaid position, but don’t want to go hard too soon and close this door.

    We also started to talk about timelines, but there really aren’t any. The position doesn’t exist unless they want me for it and I accept. So there’s also no title. Should I ask more about both of those in this email too?

    1. animaniactoo*

      Are you willing to trade some salary for some extra PTO?

      If so, you could approach it as “I’m looking for X but if there’s room to increase the initial PTO allotment, I’d be open to Y”

      I would say leave the title out for now – right now they’re looking to nail down the salary, so stay focused on that and leave the title for a future discussion unless they start balking at your numbers and you have to use market research for what you think the title of the position would be to justify your ask.

    2. k.k*

      I would say something like, “My salary range is X to Y, negotiable depending on the full compensation package.” This will open the discussion about PTO and other benefits. If they offer you the low end, you can then negotiate for either more PTO or more pay to compensate.

  165. Everyone uses the accessible bathroom stall*

    I work in a mid-sized office (~300 people in our building). My floor (which houses ~150 people) has one women’s bathroom, with four stalls. The fourth stall is handicap accessible.

    While there is nobody with a visible disability in our building, the accessible stall is clearly most folks’ top choice; I’d say that it is in use ~75% of the time I go to the bathroom, including when all the other stalls are free. (We don’t have a problem with too few toilets; I don’t think I’ve ever had to wait for a toilet).

    I do not have a disability, but — for reasons that I’d rather not get into with anyone at work — I do often need to use the accessible stall. I’m annoyed that everyone seems to use it just because they prefer it. (Of course, there may be folks with invisible disabilities or who also need to use it for other reasons.)

    Should I do anything? Or is this just a small annoyance I should live with?

    1. Say What, now?*

      You could talk to your manager if you feel comfortable disclosing your issue to one person. Then she can make it clear on your behalf that you should be given preference in this area.

      1. Everyone uses the accessible bathroom stall*

        But what would that even look like? A sign on the door telling people not to use the accessible stall if they don’t need it?

        1. animaniactoo*

          Think about the effects of what you’re suggesting here. Put a sign like that on the door and everyone who uses it from then on is either someone who has some sort of invisible disability or needs accommodation, or they’re jerks who don’t care that it’s “reserved” for those who need it. And the speculation of who falls into what category and trying to run that down and people being “outed” as one or the other?

          Are you particularly comfortable with having to reveal why you need that stall in order to use it? Or having it known that something must have been acceptable because you’re on the “approved” list?

          1. Everyone uses the accessible bathroom stall*

            Oh, I agree — I meant to imply a skeptical tone with my question.

    2. fposte*

      I vote for living with it. It doesn’t sound like you’re being blocked out of it; just that sometimes you have to queue, which is pretty standard for bathroom experiences, and it doesn’t sound like there’s a priority claim that needs to be made.

      1. Bibliovore*

        Please let this go. Imagine being the person who needs the accessible stall. It is no one else business why.

    3. animaniactoo*

      Unless there’s a line waiting to use the accessible stall and people are not using the other stalls when they find the accessible one in use, this is a small annoyance you live with.

      Assume benefit of the doubt that most people who use it have good reason to do so and remind yourself that you’re not being overly inconvenienced beyond having to wait an extra minute or two for it.

    4. LizB*

      At least where I’ve lived and worked (USA, west coast and midwest), it’s been common practice for the accessible bathroom stall to be fair game for anyone to use — unlike a reserved parking spot, for example. If you (general you) are in line for the bathroom with someone using a mobility device, you let them go into that stall and probably let them cut ahead of you in line when it opens up, but otherwise I think it’s assumed that people will be in and out of the stall quickly enough that folks who need that particular stall will be able to get in without too much delay. If that’s also the cultural norm in your area, I’d probably just live with it, unless you think your workplace would be receptive to trying to change that norm.

      If your culture is one where accessible stalls are treated more like accessible parking spots, where it’s a big no-no for someone to ever use them without a particular need, then you can probably say something. Or if your coworkers are parking themselves in there to have long phone conversations or something, you can certainly speak up about that.

      (Full disclosure: I have no disability, visible or otherwise, that makes me need an accessible stall, but I usually use the accessible stall at my work because it’s the only one where the door closes properly and stays latched. If they would fix the darn latches I would be totally open to sticking with the standard stalls despite the prevailing culture in my area.)

    5. DDJ*

      This is a big issue of mine (and we do have several folks in our office who REQUIRE use of the accessible stall), but you never know why someone is using that stall. There was actually a thread on here…probably a year ago, about who needs to use those stalls. It got very heated! I’ve always said, if you NEED to use the stall, then use it! Whatever the reason! But if you just feel like it’s a bit nicer to have the extra room for your 20-second pee, then maybe consider…not using it?

      I always figure, if you need to use that stall, use it. That’s why it’s there. If you don’t need to use it, then don’t use it! If it’s the only stall open in the bathroom, I’ll actually wait until another stall is free. It’s never been such an emergency that I couldn’t wait for a bit. I know for a fact that we’ve got a few folks in our office who can’t use the other stalls, so why would I risk being in there when someone who NEEDS it shows up?

      I don’t think there’s anything that could be done, unfortunately. I think it’s just something that you have to live with. Sure, you could bring it up, but everyone knows the purpose of an accessible stall already. Maybe someone could send out a notice that “There are individuals who require use of the stall; please do not use the stall unless you require it,” but what happens when you’re in the bathroom with another person and go to use that stall? You’ll either get someone who thinks YOU’RE the jerk who doesn’t read memos (or that you’re the person who prompted the memo because you’re clueless), or you’ll have someone wondering why you need to use the stall so badly that they had to send out a memo about it. It seems like a no-win, especially when this isn’t something you want to get into with people at work.

      I’m sorry that you’re dealing with this, though. It sucks. I just don’t understand people! Why do you need the extra leg room for a 20-second bathroom trip? What’s the deal? What am I missing? It’s a toilet, you go in, you do your thing, you leave. Just…WHY? Like you, I have a hard time believing that everyone using that stall has a reason for it, other than…they just prefer it.

    6. You don't know me*

      If you can live with, then do, but if it is a real need of yours then you should make a request that it be posted that the accessible stall is reserved for people who need it. Be prepared to be called out on it if someone sees you using that stall and doesn’t know why. Not everyone is sensitive to invisible disabilities.

      At an old job I actually witnesses a confrontation between a wheelchair user and a seemingly healthy person over the use of the handicap stall. Wheelchair user was mad she had to wait because someone was in “her” stall. She yelled at person exiting and tried to start a fight with her. That person calmly explained that she had back issues and had to use the handicap stall because she needed the railing to help pull herself up.

      1. Lujessmin*

        That is the reason I use the handicap stall – I have bad knees and hips and the rails help me stand up. Plus the toilet itself is usually set higher than the regular ones, and as a 6 ft tall woman with bad knees, it makes it easier.

    7. Seriously?*

      You should let it go unless people are spending an abnormally long amount of time in it. Handicapped stalled are accessible, not reserved. It is polite to try to leave them available or let someone who needs it cut ahead in line, but that is a courtesy. I don’t think it would come across well if you tried to prevent everyone else in the office from using that stall. Essentially you would be saying that you having to wait a few minutes was more important than their comfort. I completely understand your frustration and it is rude to exclusively use the handicapped stall if there are other valid options, but I don’t think that there is a good solution.

    8. Jules*

      As a repentee, I never realized what a jerk move it was until I was in crutches at work. Now I stay out unless I don’t have a choice… People who needs to do #2 tend to do it in the handicapped stall too!!

  166. Say What, now?*

    This is just me venting.

    I found out a couple of days ago that my employee’s mother’s cancer just metastasized to her brain. Her doctors estimated that she’d have 2 weeks to live. In that couple of days she went from being easily confused to all out unable to form words either verbally or in writing. She doesn’t know if there is one/where her mother’s will is and her mother can no longer tell her. Meanwhile, she suspects that her mother’s live-in boyfriend is spending the money they need for her hospital care and she can’t stop him.

    So ugly, I wish she’d take FMLA but she doesn’t want to be home and says work is the only thing that’s distracting her.

    1. Yami Bakura*

      Oh dear :( I hope that mom’s BF didn’t destroy/tamper with the will either…

  167. Dorothy Zbornak*

    Hi all! I’ve never had the same name twice, but I’ve finally settled on this one & hope to establish myself eventually.

    Now my question:

    Auto-Reject Emails.

    I’ve been casually job hunting for a few years, but I got my breaking point and now am seriously searching. In the past, the vast majority of my applications were met with an auto-reject email.

    So far this week, no auto-rejects. I’m of two minds. Either:

    1: auto-rejects are fading as a practice

    2: I’m applying to jobs that match my qualifications?

    Due to my mildly toxic workplace, and underemployment, my confidence has been eroded over the years. But I have a master’s degree and decided that in job searching, I’m going to try to leap up a level or so (hoping to make at least a 50% salary increase – I’m that underemployed). I’m wondering if my master’s was triggering the auto-rejects b/c I was aiming too low?

    1. BRR*

      It’s hard to tell without more details but I don’t think you usually get auto rejected because you’re over qualified.

      1. BRR*

        Oh no! that sounded really harsh. I meant auto rejections typically happen if you don’t hit the minimum qualifications.

        1. Dorothy Zbornak*

          Didn’t take it harshly :) But yeah, the auto-reject thing is just baffling to me. Previously, when I was in more “casual” job hunting mode, I was only applying to jobs where I was absolutely certain that I met all of the qualifications (and then some, given my education level). Only to have the auto-reject in my email within a few hours.

          Now? I’m playing much more loose, matching anywhere from 75%-90% of the minimums and reaching for the GD stars and…at least no auto-rejects.

          Certainly not complaining. It’s keeping my momentum up by not having those hit my inbox.

  168. Anonymous Anon*

    I started a new job a few months ago, and there’s been a little bit of a learning curve. Whenever my colleagues whisper to each other about something, I always have a fear that it’s because I did a bad job on something. I know this probably sounds really vain, but because I have heard my name a time or two here or there (though I’m not sure whether it was negative talk about me), I can’t help but feel a bit paranoid. Any tips on what I can do to feel less on edge and worried all the time?

  169. miyeritari*

    yesterday my boss cancelled our 1:1. i was super bummed about it, becuase i had a lot of stuff i wanted ot share about my projects, and i had run out of work on my current projects so i wanted his insight on what to do next. i was trying not to take it personally, though, becuase I know how busy he is, and he is incredibly busy.

    about 90 minutes later, when he appeared from the meeting room that is his native habitat, i was like “hey, did you want me to rescshedule for friday or next week?”

    he looked around and said, “you know, we can meet now, that’d be best.”

    then we had a great and productive chat, and now i just made a big breakthrough. so it’s been a good week. sending good vibes to everyone else.

  170. UNK Today*

    Asking for a friend: I’m leaning toward deferring enrollment to my PhD program. Do I just tell the program that I’d like to request a deferment or do they want a vague reason? “Due to a family matter, I’d like to request an enrollment deferment to Fall 2019. Thank you.”

    1. TotesMaGoats*

      That’s going to depend on the school but generally a vague reason should suffice. Your admissions office will let you know if you need to provide more information. It shouldn’t count against you though. Deferral is standard practice.

    2. The New Wanderer*

      I deferred my enrollment by a year. I had already gotten approval from my future advisor and I think it was just some paperwork to fill out. I don’t recall having to give an official reason, though I definitely told my advisor because I was taking a dream job in the field for that year. But something vague is probably fine, I think the key thing was having it approved by the department.

      I also took an extended 3-year leave in the middle of the program, and again the key factor was having my advisor agree to accept me back into the program. The rest was just paperwork.

      1. UNK Today*

        ^this is the same reason friend is deferring! A job came up that is too perfect not to take, F just wishes the timing were better.

        Cool. Thanks, all!

        1. The New Wanderer*

          If it helps, it was absolutely worth it. I don’t regret taking the job (the experience helped put my program in perspective), and I don’t regret leaving for the program after a year (no easy way to progress without higher degrees). Good luck to your friend!

  171. Me--Blargh!*

    Updates and questions:

    Government job sent an email with the hiring manager’s name on it that my application was being reviewed. Friend said that probably meant my app was complete. Okey dokey, that’s good. I think I’m going to forget about it for the moment; the likelihood I’ll get it is small. I did check apartments nearby against the lowest salary figure and it’s doable, though moving that far would be tough. I had to do some big-time mental gymnastics to even apply since it’s deep in red country, but if I did get it, it would be a good resume point and would allow me to move again. I’m terrified of getting stuck again.

    Do federal jobs typically give you a heads-up before background checks? I froze everything after the Equifax breach; should I unfreeze it again? (Side note: Equifax has had a tech writer position open for a while and I laugh every time I see it. Hahaha, nobody wants you, bro.)

    Meanwhile, I found an entry-level tech writing/editing job in StL that seems like they’re looking for someone who wants to learn. They wanted familiarity with HTML, and I’m not conversant in it, but I put in my cover letter that I’m working on improving that. There are three offices on the job listing, and two of them are in states I wouldn’t move to at gunpoint, so I specified that I was interested in the StL job and had family in the area, etc. (I’m not that far away so a move would be easier).

    They asked for desired salary and it was a text field, so I put that I’d like to discuss it after finding out more about the position. Was that okay? Salaries in MO are typically low and I do NOT want to shoot myself in the foot. I googled and most sites are saying $52K average, but I would expect more like $45 tops. That’s the average that Exjob pays, but StL is more expensive. Is that even realistic? I need to be able to pay on student loans and save UP.

    I hope they can ignore all the admin stuff on my resume. That really undermines me. No, I don’t want to make the same salary I was making as an admin at Exjob, even though it pays above the area average. I desperately need to move out of admin or I’m doomed to be a low-paid receptionist for the rest of my life. *crosses fingers; lights incense; sends affirmations to the universe and the remover of obstacles*

    1. SpaceNovice*

      I believe you have to approve the background check, so yes, you should know when it happens.

      If the StL company is a good 0ne, they shouldn’t mind you wanting to ask for more information. Good companies are flexible. (Although if they made it a text field on the form but it’s a numerical field in their database, it’s probably going to zero the field. …. ask me how I know.)

      I don’t know how realistic the salary is, unfortunately. But, hey, City Museum and Soulard Farmers Market? Also, family. If they like you, they will be willing to negotiate if you ask for too high of a salary. Start off with the salary you want!

    2. H.C.*

      Potential employers need to get your explicit consent to request credit report information, so unless it’s something they asked you sign off on in your initial application – you should have a good idea of when you should lift your security freezes.

    3. WellRed*

      Not a technical writer, but editor for a B2B publication. It can really vary, but especially if it’s entry level and salaries are low in the area, 45K sounds more realistic. frankly, I only make $40k, in a desirable kind of expensive area of the country and I have been here 12 years doing more than writing. (the salary is a big reason I need to move on).

  172. Lennie Briscoe's classic snark*

    How to try and handle two totally but conflicting schedules?

    I work in higher ed admin alongside a totally different dept. The university year does not lend itself easily to working together – often when my office is busy, the other one is quiet and vice-versa. Recently, it came up that other dept wanted to organise something important that my office would need to have great involvement in in Jan/Feb time…but this is one of the worst (by which I mean incredibly busy) times for my office. Likewise, sometimes we want things to move quicker/faster when other dept is busier.

    I’m not entirely sure where I’m going with this…but how to try and understand each other better so we can improve our working relationship?

    1. Higher Ed Database Dork*

      In my experience, it takes the department heads to commit to working together and prioritizing things as necessary. You need their buy-in or no one below them will do anything. Have you talked with your boss about this, or has there been any discussion at higher levels?

      P.S. I feel your pain, I have tried SO MANY THINGS to improve interdepartmental relationships and it just never works without the higher up buy in.

  173. Leslie Knope*

    I’m an office manager and sit at a reception desk in my company’s front lobby. I’m not a fan of sitting at a reception desk, but we are too small to need a full-time receptionist and I understand our director wants someone up here during business hours.

    With that being said, I have difficulty focusing when there is a lot of noise or conversation happening around me. Most of the time the lobby is very quiet, but we occasionally have visitors and some of them will stop in the lobby on their way to a meeting and have a conversation either amongst themselves or with one of our staff members while literally hanging onto my desk. This is really distracting to me when I am trying to work on a project that requires concentration. Is there any way I can interrupt and tactfully suggest they continue their conversation elsewhere? Or is this something I just need to deal with?

    *Most staff try to be considerate and will often stop a conversation from developing and ask the visitor(s) to follow them for a discussion in a conference room, office, etc. I really appreciate it when my co-workers do this! However, it doesn’t always happen.

    1. Schnoodle*

      You could say “There’s more room in the conference room if you’d like to chat further. Probably would be more comfortable there.”

      So that even if it was just chit chat, I think they’d get the hint. One would hope anyway.

  174. Adlib*

    Ran a small webinar today. Forgot to mute myself as the organizer at first before it started. Hoping that I didn’t mumble anything too bad…so glad it’s Friday.

  175. Anonymous Commentator*

    I am really envious of people who get to work from home because my job does not allow any telecommuting. It’s especially challenging because I have a couple of friends who are full-time writers (made possible because they are married to spouses who are the breadwinners), and I can’t help feel jealous of how much more freedom they have than I do.

    I am an extremely introverted person who feels very drained after a day of work, much less five days of work in a row. I would love more than anything to eventually be able to work from home, too, though I don’t think I’d be a good writer. I was wondering what type of jobs are particularly open to people working from home, so I can start thinking about what skills I might need for those roles (e.g., coding, programming?).

    1. SoSo*

      My sister works from home full time as a team lead/manager for remote tech customer service (think the number you call when you’re having trouble with your phone, tablet, or watch). She started out as a customer service rep doing chat-based support, and now manages the team leads that oversee the service reps. She does video conferencing with her direct reports for 1-1 meetings, but never leaves the house! She’s been doing it for 6 years now and loves it. That might not help if you’re a super-introvert because even dealing with people over chat can be draining, but it’s probably better than face to face- and you don’t have to be a programmer.

  176. TotesMaGoats*

    Three of my four interns from this semester are graduating with jobs waiting for them. So proud of them and what they’ve accomplished.

    Good vibes for my sister please. She’s FINALLY reached the end of her rope with her current job. After twice using other job offers to get better pay (and better working conditions for her and everyone in her job role), she is so stressed out that her health is suffering. She finally broke down and applied for a job elsewhere and (no surprise) got a call 2 days later for a phone interview. Much closer to home location wise, probably cut her commute in half. WAY better pay. Fingers crossed that it moves forward and that she takes the leap and gets away from the toxic hellhole that is her current job. I don’t want to have to say I told you so again.

  177. AnonGD*

    How honest can you be as a reference for a recent graduate? I manage a small group of design interns. We had an intern start and quit three months into the year– I put in extra effort to try to get her caught up but she was really struggling with the software relative to other interns. She just reached out to ask if I would be a reference for her– I think we were the only internship/work experience she’s had.

    Here’s the thing: She’s a great person– creative, outgoing, respectful, generally delightful and professional for her age. But I’d have a hard time leaving out the fact that she was notably behind on her software knowledge. Any entry level design job she applies for will likely require more knowledge than what she has. Which isn’t to say she couldn’t succeed, I just think she’d need to be in a team environment with a lot of peers (as opposed to an independent role where she’s the only designer) at the very least. And have an understanding manager who enjoys mentoring/teaching.

    I’ve had interns ask if I’d be their reference before but never actually had a phone call yet, so I’m not sure how they normally go– but will being nuanced seriously jeopardize her chances of getting a job? Or should I just politely decline her request? If I were hiring a recent grad I think I’d appreciate a good, but honest assessment but I’d love to know what you all think.

    1. AnotherJill*

      I would decline. Since you only had three months experience with her, any recommendation you would give would not carry much weight, even if you could put a positive spin on it.

    2. Little Bean*

      Hmm. If she quit because she couldn’t learn quickly enough to do the work you needed her to do, then it might be kinder to let her know that you can’t be a reference for any design-based jobs she’s applying to. But if she’s decided that design isn’t for her and is now applying to other things, then maybe you could still be a reference in that case? All of the other things you said about her sound great.

  178. Green Machine*

    Has anyone watched Aggretsuko on Netflix? It’s a workplace anime about a soft-spoken, passive red panda who suffers in silence as her coworkers step all over her. It’s eerily relatable.

    1. fposte*

      Oh, God. I have an allergy to those British comedies about the raucous antics of people nobody ever says no to (exhibit A: Keeping Up Appearances) and this sounds like all of those at once.

      1. Higher Ed Database Dork*

        I was curious about that show, but yeah, if it’s anything like KUA, then I’ll pass. Hyacinth gives me too much anxiety.

      2. The OG Anonsie*

        It doesn’t set off my anxiety like those kinds of shows do, although it does hit some real sore spots.

        The thing that makes it cool, to me anyway, is that there are a bunch of other women Retsuko works with or knows socially who handle things totally differently than she does. It’s sort of her looking at all these other women and how they’ve decided to set up their lives/careers and trying to figure out what to do herself. It’s great, honestly I was really surprised.

    3. Alinea*

      Yes!!!! I’m enjoying it.

      My husband has been teasing me when I say, “cellphone, wallet, keys” to myself before I leave for work and he yells “3-for-3!”

    4. Ex-Academic, Future Accountant*

      I’d never heard of it before today, but I looked up some of the original shorts and I think they’re hilarious. The new series is definitely going on my “when I can be bothered to subscribe to Netflix again” list along with season 2 of Stranger Things.

  179. Environmental Compliance*

    We’ve had beautiful weather this afternoon, which has lead to 90% of the office leaving early.

    My car is currently in the shop so I can’t leave too, Hubs is still off in OCS waiting on a plane ticket, and so I am stuck in an empty office with those who are left wandering up every now and again asking me why I’m still here, and when I plan on leaving.

    1. Environmental Compliance*

      And now I am the lone survivor in the office. Still no word from the shop on if my car is done.

  180. Hair anon*

    Would you consider grey or silver hair to natural? As in policies that permit only natural colors – but you would definitely need to dye it to get that color.

    1. Environmental Compliance*

      Huh. I could see that argued both ways. I’d check with your manager and/or HR to clarify.

      Because grey is *technically* a natural color, and it’s not like you’d care if Brunette Belinda dyed her hair blonde, because that’s natural too, but I could see someone, somewhere, thinking it’s Not Okay that 28 year old Melinda has grey hair.

      (Personally, my workplace is pretty laid back about all of this, as we have a couple people with obviously dyed hair, and a lot with obvious tattoos, so we really don’t have a policy on this.)

    2. Peaches*

      So funny you ask this. My uncle owns a frozen yogurt shop and employees lots of young people. One particular young women showed up one day with bright purple hair. My uncle told her she had to change it to a natural hair color, as indicated in the employee handbook. The employee showed up a few days later with gray hair. My uncle let her keep it since TECHNICALLY it was a natural hair color (even though it would really only be natural on an older person, not a 16-year-old).

      2. kelly*

        I went gray at 22. Colored until I was 45, but still….some of us have the genetics. It’s amusing now that I’m fully silver how many 20 year old are purposely coloring gray.

    3. Overeducated*

      I’ve always interpreted it as “a natural color on someone”, not YOUR natural color.

    4. Higher Ed Database Dork*

      I think as long as it’s gray or white then I’d call it “natural”. If it’s veering into pastel territory, then no. Even if you had to bleach the bejeezes out of your hair to get it to be silver or white and you looked like Lucius Malfoy, I’d call it a “natural” color. I had some really shitty bleach blonde for a while when I first started my current job, and while it was obviously unnatural on me (naturally dark brown with dark eyes and eyebrows), no one cared.

      Bias disclaimer: I love “unnatural” hair colors and tattoos and piercings and anything not traditionally considered “professional” so I’d skirt that line until my manager told me to dye my hair. :)

      1. Sally Sparrow*

        Ha, the skirting the line bit is how I ended up with my crazy hair color to begin with. I slowly started dying my hair brighter and brighter shades of pink and no one said anything (while being awesome at my job, so it was more difficult to object since there is no reason why crazy hair colors shouldn’t be allowed). Then one time I went all out. I actually had a CW thank me for doing that because it allowed her to get a little out there as well. Now I just get people asking what the next color will be.

        2. Higher Ed Database Dork*

          I did this in my last job, thus the shitty bleach blonde. :) I loved having purple hair, it made me feel so…complete. I’m testing the waters again in my current job since I’ve been here for a year and my manager loves me but I’m not sure he’s going to come around to all-over color so I’m just going to start doing some soft pink color rinses for a little hint of color.

    5. The New Wanderer*

      Off topic, but the “only natural hair colors” thing isn’t even enforced at our local elementary school (it’s in the school handbook). There are no less than a dozen kids with hair dyed various rainbow colors. I have a feeling that when they hit the job market, we’ll see a lot less of those kinds of restrictions.

      1. The New Wanderer*

        And sorry, to answer the actual question, I think gray/silver absolutely qualifies as natural colors. I’m about 40% there myself, though I choose a different ‘natural’ color to hide it.

      2. Higher Ed Database Dork*

        Ahhh I love that! I am totally on board with my daughters dying their hair if they want to. My mom, however, is terrified we will “ruin” their natural locks and constantly tries to make me promise I won’t let them dye their hair. She punished me when I was a teenager for dying my hair black (not even that wild of a color! and it looked natural on me because of my eyes/eyebrows) and has serious hang-ups about hair dying. Hence my hair color adventures as an adult.

        1. Thlaylints*

          Just make sure they use hair dye that is safe for kids. Chemicals from the dye can be inhaled and can even get into the bloodstream through the skin of your scalp. Stuff that is perfectly safe for an adult to use might not be safe for a child.

          Ironically, dying light hair bright unnatural colours is actually much safer than using any sort of lightener like bleach or ammonia, even though lightening your hair is often done to create a more “natural” colour. The bright colour dyes are often the type that sort of coat your hair, rather than actually leaching into your hair and skin like bleach does.

  181. De Minimis*

    We had an orientation this morning at our soon to be new WeWork coworking space.

    I like some things about it, and I’m sure I’ll adjust, but they had two client companies “pitching” at us during our orientation, and that didn’t sit right with me. One of them was probably okay because it was in a field similar to ours where there might be some common ground/connections, but the other I didn’t like at all. I get the feeling that all of our public interactions there are all going to be that way.

    1. Manders*

      I’m in a WeWork space right now! Yeah, the pitches do get pretty aggressive. Watch out for the lunch and learns in particular–I’ve been to a few where the topic sounded cool, and then the actual presentation was a hard sell of a shady product.

  182. Bibliovore*

    Procrastination.
    I have a million things to do. The sun is shining. I want to play hooky. Every surface in my office is covered in piles.
    I am checking in to say that since the office next door is empty and I have a door that I am putting on music and tossing, keeping(putting it where it belongs), and giving away the materials that have been stacking up.

    I am leaving at 4:00!!!!

  183. Fabulous*

    Every month my team presents a “topic of the month” to each other, and this is the first time I haven’t been able to come up with content on the topic. I’ve probably worked on it for 12 hours (or more) and still couldn’t scrape together anything worthwhile. My boss was totally understanding about it – it’s apparently been a difficult topic for everyone – and she says I don’t need to present anything. Still can’t help feeling like a failure though…

    1. LQ*

      What if the topic you presented was a facilitated session to come up with topics the team wanted to hear more about? A little meta? Yes. But if you aren’t the only one having trouble with it it could benefit everyone, you’d be a hero, cover your piece, and be set up for next time.
      I’d also suggest looking into a related professional association and they might have things already prepared, just having a webinar that you do and everyone watches and discusses along the way can work.

      I think these kinds of things are really good….when you have an idea of what that should look like and for some professions more than others. But if it feels/is really huge (if you spent 12 hours on it either they are asking you to put a lot into it or there’s a disconnect) or there’s no guidance around what the present a topic of the month should be then it gets really challenging and often becomes way more work than it’s worth.

      (I was a part of a team that did a short podcast and discussed it to start weekly meetings, I set up 2xmonthly meetings to do online trainings and discuss them, ted talks with a brief chat come up, my boss for a while would just play a mental floss video and we’d talk about it a little, I’ve done giant presentations as well, but the small parts we all discuss generally seem to go over better and people use them more. I’d say that it doesn’t sound like yours was structured in a way to help you be successful, especially if everyone is struggling.)

  184. Overeducated*

    I read an entertaining article that mentioned Alison’s new book this week along with David Graeber’s, for an interesting contrast. Link and my commentary to follow…please share yours!

    1. Overeducated*

      Link: https://longreads.com/2018/04/26/is-your-job-lynchian-or-is-it-more-kafkaesque/

      My thoughts: fun review when it talks about the changing role of work advice books, but kind of an odd comparison at the end. The article contrasts the books by saying Graeber’s is more “radically honest” because it talks about the underlying structure of work-related dissatisfaction, while Alison’s is just about how to deal with it, but isn’t that just a genre issue? Graeber’s an activist anthropologist, his wheelhouse is social analysis and fighting for change. Alison follows the tradition of advice columns in giving relationship and etiquette advice, where the purpose of etiquette is to keep relationships and interactions running smoothly within a given social world, not to change the social structure itself. It seems a little unfair (and rigidly Marxist in the academic sense) to imply that readers with workplace issues don’t REALLY have interpersonal problems, they have capitalist ones – neither kind precludes the other.

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        I loved this review (although I also agree with your assessment). The sentence “Green’s version is a bit Lynchian, possessing a mundane façade that belies something darker and more surreal” pleased me immensely.

  185. trying to be anonymous...*

    I wish I had a more specific question than this, but I don’t. I’ve written before about an employee that I have been having trouble managing and I’m experiencing the same problems over and over.

    How do I deal with someone who constantly interrupts me? This employee does it all the time to people, but he seems to do it the most with me. I’ve tried stopping the conversation, continuing talking over him, repeating “you’re interrupting me, you’re interrupting me, you’re interrupting me” while he is speaking over me, and having a private conversation with him about it where I tell him that other people are noticing what he’s doing and it doesn’t look good for him to keep doing that. He seems to think that he is having a positive impact on the conversation, but a lot of the time his interjections are not relevant to the conversation.

    Most recently when we had visitors from our organization, we were discussing an issue our location has been having and he cut in to say that it would be fixed very soon and that if these weren’t here we would be having a meeting with appropriate people that would fix it. This isn’t completely true – we’ve been trying to set this meeting for months, so to say it would happen this week is a big assumption and it’s not going to magically be fixed by having the meeting. I realize now this is a different issue from interrupting, but the interrupting and fudging seem to be connected here.

    He’s a bit older than me and that I think that may influence the dynamic a bit.

    1. Schnoodle*

      What about…as soon as he interrupts, literally walk away.

      Even start off that way. Say you will walk away if he interrupts again. Maybe he needs the visual!

      1. trying to be anonymous...*

        Oh that is an interesting idea, but I am a bit adverse to fighting rudeness with rudeness.
        At this point, it might be the only option. I am wondering what the follow-up conversation would be. Usually when I try explaining things to him that he already has an idea about he doesn’t listen to me, and I can see my trying to say “Do you understand why I walked away from you?”, leading to a blank look from him.

        1. SoSo*

          Honestly, some people Just Don’t Get It. You might have to be really explicit with this guy and make him understand that what he’s doing isn’t just rude, but extremely disrespectful. I would wait for him to finish his interruption and respond with “Unless you can be respectful of others while they’re speaking, you don’t need to be a part of this conversation” and dismiss him. The problem with constant-interrupters is that they think whatever they have to say is the most important thing, and if he can’t learn to reign it in then you shouldn’t give him the opportunity anymore. (FWIW, this is my biggest pet peeve and it makes me absolutely furious on your behalf)

        2. Sabine the Very Mean*

          I feel like at this point it wouldn’t matter if he got it or not. Your goal then would be to stop the interrupting instead of getting him to understand. I had an abusive boss and I left the job after way too much nastiness. I saw her quite soon after at the grocery store. She had her hands on her hips and was squared-off waiting for me to walk up to her. Instead, I simply did a swift little side-step and walked right past like she was a run-away grocery cart. It was up to her to determine why I wouldn’t engage with her. That is how I would envision you handling him if he really keeps it up. Move right on, physically and mentally. He can figure it out since he’s clearly so intelligent ;-)

          1. trying to be anonymous...*

            Thanks to you both. These give me a bit to consider going forward. I hope *something* starts to work a bit better.

    2. PetticoatsandPincushions*

      Sometimes when my dog is having trouble completing a task like Sit or Paw, we need to refocus him. So I ask him to Look, wait until his attention, and then repeat the command. Maybe you could try firmly saying the coworkers name when he interrupts. Then when he hopefully looks at you, then calmly state that you would like to finish your thought/please don’t interrupt/etc. Repeating yourself over and over may start to feel like background noise to him so a different tact might work better.

  186. Willow Tree*

    I did not go back to my old job after maternity leave. This was partly to spend more time with the baby, and partly to clear my head after a lot of nonsense that went on at the old job.

    How do I best represent this choice when interviewing for new jobs? I am concerned that people will think I may quit my job again if I have another kid. I don’t even know if I want another kid, and I would go back to a job where I was treated well, but I don’t want to discuss my reproductive plans in interviews. My old company is known within its industry for being toxic, and I have heard interviewers are concerned when hiring its ex-employees that they might bring the toxic behaviors with them, so in some cases it’s better to mention the lack of cultural fit.

    1. Schnoodle*

      You have the answer!

      Say after having a baby and time at home, you realized it wasn’t a fit and rather take more time for you and your baby to be back 100% for the next opportunity.

      And no need to mention anything else on your planning or non planning of kids. I mean, anyone they hire under 40 years of age could have a baby! And even then it’s not unheard of to have kids past that so…and mind you the man too…takes two to have a kid right?!?

      1. Willow Tree*

        That’s a good way to phrase it! Thanks!

        Haha, I was already over 40 when I had this one, but I look much younger.

  187. Larval Doctor*

    We interviewed someone for a job last week and when asked some behavioral interviewing questions, she brought up how a specific colleague made a mistake at work and the candidate “jumped in” to fix the mistake. She did not discuss, until specifically asked, how she managed this situation without being disrespectful to the colleague, who was her superior. I had a lot of concerns about that, and the hiring manager did a follow up phone interview, where the candidate again brought up this specific colleague and her poor behavior as an example. We did a second visit and the candidate TWO MORE TIMES completely unsolicitedly brought up this specific colleague and how disruptive and problematic she is and that the candidate warns clients that this colleague has poor person skills.

    I think all of this harping on her bad colleague in an interview setting is super unprofessional. Hiring manager wants to hire her anyway. When I interviewed her for the second visit I tried to be super clear that I expect that she will be professional and never, ever criticize a colleague to clients.

    How unprofessional is this? Am I over-reacting (for context, we have a vacancy in the first place because we hired someone I really didn’t like, but the rest of the committee did and she didn’t work out for all of the reasons that I said she wouldn’t. I’ve now gotten a reputation for having good insight, but am feeling really sensitive about always being the negative one)

    1. Schnoodle*

      It’s a bit drama for me. It’s one thing to describe an incident you managed to get under control, another to keep mentioning how you pretty much want to get away from this terrible coworker.

    2. Peaches*

      She “warms clients that this colleague has poor person skills”? That is a huge red flag, in my opinion. A normal, professional employee would NEVER openly talk trash about a colleague to clients, no matter how much they disliked them. Your intuition is absolutely right on this one.

    3. Teapot librarian*

      That is definitely a red flag for me. She’s not going to be a good colleague. She reminds me, actually, of a roommate I had in college. Her entire freshman year she complained about how terrible her roommate was, until I was her roommate sophomore year and realized that the problem was not the roommate, but her.

    4. WellRed*

      If she’s this bad when she should be on her best behavior, imagine how she’ll be in the job.

    5. SpaceNovice*

      You’re totally reacting to this properly. That’s super unprofessional. She’s already showing baggage that needs to be kept to herself. It’s all right to not like a coworker but you shouldn’t trash talk them in front of random people. This griping is only for friends and family, not random strangers.

    6. AnotherJill*

      I think that it is extremely disqualifying when a candidate repeatedly emphasizes that they have no professional boundaries.

  188. Peaches*

    More just of annoyance than a question, but…

    All six salespeople in my office have gotten into the habit of regularly listening to voicemails, and taking calls on SPEAKERPHONE. It’s so clearly disruptive to all of the in-office employees, but the fact that all of them do it (some more than others) makes me think maybe it’s not as obvious as I thought. I could see if there were walking around, multitasking while on these calls/listening to voicemails, but their literally just sitting at their desks. It makes it super difficult to concentrate! Whenever it happens, my coworker will walk by my desk, wide-eyed, as if to say “OMG, can you believe how disruptive they’re being?!”, so I know it’s not just me. I’ve worked here for almost three years now, and this hasn’t happened other than on a rare occasion until a few months ago, so I’m not sure why the sudden change.

    1. WellRed*

      Speak up! “Hey, would you mind taking that off speaker phone. It’s really loud and distracting.”

    2. AnonGD*

      In my office I’m regularly listening to things on my headphones– I’ve interrupted people before to ask them to take a conversation off speakerphone/stop playing music on their speakers because it really and truly makes it harder to hear my own music. Telling people I can’t hear something I’m privately listening to seems to be received better than “Can you turn that down, it’s a little loud”

  189. Persephone Mulberry*

    Ooh, super late to the party but I’m going to ask anyway.

    I applied for a job and part of the responsibilities is supporting the division head. Two bullets from the job description: “Anticipates work requirements of the division head, whenever possible, to make the most productive use of available time and resources;” and “arranges appointments and meetings for division head…and provides daily reminders of upcoming obligations.”

    What are some good questions to gather more info about how the division head and this role work together in practice? I’ve supported executives who make it VERY VERY hard to “manage up” effectively and I really don’t want to put myself in that position again.

    1. Teapot librarian*

      I don’t have ideas of questions (sorry) but this reads to me like either the division head is very self-aware about her own flakiness, or someone else is responding to the division head’s flakiness. (And I say “flakiness,” but it could just be “overwhelming busy-ness.”) I think if it’s the former, she is likely to be easier to manage up.

    3. Happy Lurker*

      I would ask:
      – What tools does both the company and the DHs use most often (expect Outlook or gmail )
      – Do they utilize their phones as calendars or are they old fashioned appointment book people
      – How do they currently loop assistant in? Does assistant have access to all DH’s emails to help coordinate? Or just calendar
      – How often are DH’s out of the office and how do they anticipate your support while they travel?

    4. Nacho*

      Ask straight out: “Your job description mentioned ‘anticipating work requirements of the division head.’ How much anticipation is expected and how much will the division head be telling me what he requires?”

    5. Buu*

      Ask them to describe what a typical working day looks like? Then listen out to see if you can figure out the level of collaboration from that?

  190. Argh!*

    Applied for DreamJob, which was supervisory. Had an interview that went well, and then…. saw a job notice for a position reporting to the person in DreamJob. I decided to apply for that one, had a decent job interview…. and then I see a job notice for one level down at DreamJob, below my bottom limit of what I’ll accept.

    So the trick would be to go back in time, accept a job at a lower level, and then move up. So I’ve given up on DreamJob and even if another position opens I don’t think I’ll apply. It’s time to move on to other high hopes. :-(

  191. Returning to work after extended sick leave*

    I am (hopefully – currently waiting for confirmation from my boss) returning to work in just over a week. I’ve been on long term sick leave since September/October and haven’t performed my normal duties since last April. I will be having retraining, but does anyone have any thoughts how to get back in the swing of things?

    I’ve never gone this long without working/studying and I’m a little worried about how to adjust back to the world of work.

    2. The New Wanderer*

      Glad you’re getting a phased return! If they do that, they probably also know not to dump everything on you at once, so the work side might be not too challenging.

      You probably know this already but make sure you plan to get lots of rest the first few weeks. Like, don’t do anything extra if you can avoid it. Make meals in advance, save errands for the weekend, that sort of thing. That’s what got me after coming back from mat leave, I was just so tired from having to be around people and function like an adult. It’s a different kind of tired than the expected not-sleeping-because-of-baby, though that was still part of it.

  192. worrywart*

    I had an in-person interview with 8 people a little over two weeks ago (4/19). They came in waves of two every half-hour. I thought it went well! I asked about next steps and the last interviewer, guy A, said I should hear back end of the next week, but guy A isnt the person I’ve been in contact with this process. Guy B is who I’ve been in contact with. I did a phone interview with him and arranged the in person interview through him. Unfortunately, I didn’t ask Guy B about next steps during the in person interview.

    After sending my thank you email and waiting a week, I sent a follow up email Friday 4/27 to guy B asking for an update, but I haven’t gotten any response. I have been applying to other positions and interviewing, but I need some sort of closure so I can get it out of my mind!

    Would it be too much if I emailed guy B a second time next week? It would be three weeks post-interview ~(5/10)

    1. An Anon Librarian*

      Don’t send another email. You said thank you. They know you are interested. You have to just let this one go. Assume you didn’t get the job and proceed accordingly.

    2. SpaceNovice*

      Unfortunately, that would probably seem pushy, even though it’s definitely reasonable to want an update. I wouldn’t.

  193. gnarlydude*

    I have this really weird problem where I do REALLY well with people I’ve just met, and then as I get to know a team I get more and more uncomfortable around them. Anyone experience the same thing? It almost makes me think I shouldn’t work in teams.

  194. Have toxic job-search cynicism, will solicit advice from Internet*

    Coming from a very junior employee: how can I learn to stop seeing job searching as though I’m playing a game?

    Before stumbling upon AAM, I had a really cynical (an frankly, incredibly immature) view of finding work. You go through a series of ritualized motions, prospective employer goes through a series of ritualized motions, you get hired based on your ability to know the “right” suit to wear, the “right” buzzwords, the “right” responses to questions, format your resume in the “right” way, etc. In other words, based on entirely superficial criteria, not on actual competence. And so I thought, when I started looking for work, that getting hired was just a matter of playing the game the right way and following the right steps, pretending to sincerely accept the premises of these requirements at face value but actually gaming the system.

    I think some of this attitude came out of a combination of current events and my own state of mind at the time. I had a lot of righteous anger at the way in which some employers played their own game, during the recession, to create artificial labor pool surpluses and pay their employees crap. (Automated resume screening and “entry level requiring 5 years experience,” I’m looking at you.) And I had a genuine sense that if employers were going to act in that way, then they deserved to be gamed. Plus, a lot of the bad job search advice making the rounds in the early 2010s seemed to give incredibly superficial suggestions, in addition to stuff that was patently stupid. But I also was the kind of insufferable twit who believed that the rules didn’t apply to me, that I’d get a job if I was smart, and that dumb guidelines were for losers.

    I’ve grown up a lot since, largely because of nature taking its course. I was in my early 20s then, and I’m in my late 20s now, and yeah, I can’t go around being a stuck-up know-it-all who thinks he’s going to get a high-paying job because he’s the next Einstein, or else I’m going to tick people off. Through reading AAM and through doing practice interviews, I also realize that many of the things I thought were just stupid and superficial have a purpose. A professional demeanor implies an ability to control emotions so that the job can get done; a good resume demonstrates attention to detail, and a good suit demonstrates a willingness to go above and beyond. (Plus, I was reeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaalllllllyyyyyyy immature back in the day.)

    But I still have an underlying feeling that when I go looking for work, I’m still following a set of empty gestures. That the purpose of networking is to nod along and pretend to care when somebody else drones on about their dog, while I just want to give them my business card and ask them about job openings already. (Ex the comments on the earlier AAM post about aggressive networking.) That the whole process is more about social convention and empty etiquette, meant to dance around the fact that one human is willing to exchange labor in exchange for another’s money and benefits.

    I know this is a really unhealthy way to think, because at some level, it means I still see the employer as someone I have to screw before they screw me. And I know that if I was hiring somebody, I would *really* not somebody to think this way, because that type of badly-set ethical compass is a time bomb waiting to go off.

    How do I get over myself and get out of this mindset?

    1. gnarlydude*

      its so hard when the question doesnt have a straightforward simple answer.

      I think the job app process is kind of a song and dance, and a function of who you know. That STINKS. Especially because theres a lot you dont know about a job/candidate until you start.

      Maybe you dont need to adjust your mindset. Maybe you’re right to see how farcical a lot of this process is. Maybe your task is more to process that fully– accept it, and move on with the hunt. I have a feeling that getting a job you like will change that a lot.

      Good luck!

    2. Flying Ghoti*

      Have you ever been involved in interviewing from the employer’s side? (Being the interviewer, not the interviewee?) I know that being on a search committee for the first time really opened my eyes to the way different parts of the process play out and why they are important. If you have the opportunity to do something like that, it might help change your perspective.

      1. Have toxic job-search cynicism, will solicit advice from Internet*

        That’s a good point. Thanks!

        I know that reading AAM discussions on resumes and hiring showed me why, say, not everyone will be told if they do not get a position, for very good reasons. I’m not currently in a position where I can interview candidates, but I will certainly ask some of my friends who have done this.

    3. The Ginger Ginger*

      Is this the only area of your life you feel like this in? Because in my own experience, cynicism is kind of a creeper of an emotion. It starts bleeding into all sorts of other places in your life. If that’s true for you, well, I’ve found talking to a therapist about it to be helpful. And even if you don’t do that, tune into your self talk and stop being cynical even in your own head. Find a different way to “talk” about these things in your inner monologue. I really think that the tone of your mental conversation can really set your attitude in a lot of very problematic ways, if that makes sense.
      Barring that, do you have any type of work network, even through your (social) friends? Can you find a mentor(ish) person in a more senior position who it’s safe to talk through some of this with? Have you had actual experience with a GOOD networker? A good employer? Or has your exposure so far been limited to the hyper-aggressive networker, and toxic uncaring employer pool? Because that will inform your feelings a lot too.

      Because I’ll admit, I can totally empathize with some of that kind of cynicism, and even experience it a little at my current employer. The thing I’ve found is that having a truly excellent boss who cared about my career and took mentoring seriously helped me a lot. It gave me the opportunity to honestly consider want I wanted my career trajectory to look like and how I could explore the things I enjoy doing (problem solving, team leading – but not managing, training, being a subject matter expert, etc) in a career setting. I recently got promoted to a new role out from under that boss (to OldBoss’ credit, I think). And while, if I look at my company in the bigger picture of LIFE, I can still feel a bit cynical about what we’re doing (I mean we’re not curing cancer or anything), I can get excited about those parts of my role that involve team work and attacking projects and solving problems (even when they’re minor in the scheme of things). So I guess my last piece of advice is, don’t be performative about it, but really spend time thinking about what your strengths are and what you actually enjoy, and then play to that when you think about the work you want to do, and when you’re talking about it to other people. That time of genuine emotion is attractive when networking and interviewing, and it’s not something you have to fake if you’re interviewing for the right kind of roles.

      Does that even help? I feel like I rambled off on a bit of a tangent there.

    4. LQ*

      Maybe this is where the dating thing comes into play. Having a job is like being in a committed relationship. When you go on one or two dates you’re never sure what this person will be like in a year or ten years. But in the business world you have to decide pretty early if this is someone you want to commit to. You aren’t married, you are maybe…living together. Serious, and it’s a pain the butt if you split and you have to sort of turn your life upside down for a little while. But if it’s really bad you can leave your employer/partner a week after you move in. Or a year or ten years.

      You can’t just decide to date forever because that’s not how business works, but you can hopefully get enough of the flavor of them (how do they treat the wait staff, are they fun to talk to, do you have similar hobbies, is there chemistry) to decide if you want to give this a whirl.

      Sometimes you’ll be the dumper or the dumpee and sometimes you both just shrug and go your own way. But you want to filter out the ones who are outright abusive as quickly as possible. And you don’t want to be abusive. But most people aren’t. And it’s nice to be loved (or have a job) so you try anyway even though you know there are some really horrible people out there. You tune your sense to look for those people enough, but you also want to find someone you’ll be compatible with for at least a few years. You want a relationship that’s going to make both of you happy.

      Because that’s the good thing about a relationship of either kind. If it’s good? Both parties feel like they win.

    5. animaniactoo*

      Primarily, I would say that the purpose of networking is that you don’t just want a job. You want a job with people who will treat their employees better than average and less like a game.

      In order to find that kind of job, you need to have people that you trust to be decent human beings and only make recommendations that work for both you and the company. In order to find out if that person is a decent human being, you have to learn something about them.

      So listening to them nattering on about their dog is learning about them. What kinds of things do they prioritize, how do they feel about people and life in general. Some of it won’t be useful, but lots of it will – all of it is teaching you about that person and helping you form a connection of trust and goodwill. And vice versa about them about you. Are you someone who is going to listen to 5 minutes of talking about a dog and showing interest in what’s important to someone and caring about them as a human? Or are you someone who could give 2 craps and they can’t trust your ability to empathize and be a good team player when needed?

      I think there’s also an element in here of “it has to happen right now quickly” for you, and that’s really not the way it works most of the time. Step back. Breathe. Take it slowly and expect it to be slow, because you really are feeling them out as much as they’re feeling you out. A lot of networking is really just about showing up and making conversation for the purpose of making conversation and building the relationships against a *future* date when you will need them, not right this moment. Sure, sometimes there are quicker bits in – but most networking is done with an eye towards future possibilities, not immediate ones.

    6. Gatomon*

      Well, seems to me you’re seeing through the spit-shine we’ve put on capitalism… but I confess to being a very cynical socialist so….

    7. lopsided*

      I completely agree with the other poster that cultivating and learning to handle your inner monologue is the first step. I am not the most experienced with this, but a mentor or therapist could really help. I came from a toxic environment, too, and finally experiencing a good environment taught me how things could be. I didn’t have to be on edge all the time, or bite before being bitten. When leaving my toxic job, my goal was to get so good that I’d never want for work again – I’d be able to depart at a moment’s notice if things got bad. And yes, that helps, but growing in maturity and getting the experience on the other side of table really showed me how of a gamble it is on both sides.

      Separately, you might consider meditation. It may help you to stop fixating on the end goal (job job job) and start living more in the present. You’re talking to someone and they mention some story about their dog, now this is a chance to know them more as a person than a faceless-nameless-job-output-machine. Maybe they want to know more about you, too. If you find that you click, well suddenly you are both in a winning situation because now you have a +1 for “would work with this person” from their hiring perspective, and they have a +1 in the same criteria from your job-seeking perspective.

      Working doesn’t have to be an “insert money, receive work output” transaction as you described. It can be a place where you find a team you learn from and find out about how each individual brings something new and different to the table.

  195. Nerd Writer*

    Any thoughts on putting voluntary work for very divisive organisations/causes on your resume? In my case pro-choice, but happy to hear about anything similar.

    I’m looking to make a career change. I’m having trouble getting work in “new” field because I do have some related experience but it’s all at least ten years old. There is a very important referendum coming up in a few weeks and I’ve been getting more involved in the campaign to the extent that I’m quite proud of my responsibilities and accomplishments. There are some things I’m doing very well and have never done before. I’d love to put them on my resume, and it would be a no-brainer if it was, say, a sick kids charity or something. But I’m not sure about how/if to put them on my resume as is. I am not looking for work in particularly liberal fields. I’m also not sure how conservative this country is anymore about things like abortion – we really surprised ourselves a few years ago with a referendum on same-sex marriage, so we may do the same with abortion.

    So, any advice? Put it on but disguise it/don’t specify the organisation? Keep it off? (Obviously there is a certain amount of tailoring that would go into resumes when applying for jobs, but most companies I’d be applying to would be middle-of-the-road multinationals, with a few “cool” tech companies thrown in.)

    Also, I’m in Ireland, so would particularly appreciate if anyone with an Irish perspective on this issue could comment. I think the context of the issue is a bit different in every country.

    1. Nacho*

      IMO you shouldn’t be working some place that would treat your volunteer work as a negative or volunteering some place that the kind of job you want would treat as a negative. If you do though, you’ll just have to tailor your resume to each job and how conservative it is. I don’t think hiding it is really possible though. What do you do if they ask? And even if they don’t, then how useful will it be if it’s anonymous?

  196. An Anon Librarian*

    I might be a little late this week, but here goes anyway. I was told in library school to never interview for a job if you weren’t certain you would take it. I just completed an interview that I’m pretty ambivalent about. I really am not sure I would accept if it was offered to me. Am I being unprofessional by not withdrawing from the process at this point or can I wait for an offer to make up my mind completely?

    1. it_guy*

      I would wait for the offer. They may amaze you. The best interviews I’ve had, were ones where I was ambivalent going in. The stress was totally lowered, so I could just be myself.

      1. An Anon Librarian*

        Yeah, there are specific things I saw that made me seriously concerned. I’m not sure there’s an amount of money that could negate my level of concern.

    2. LQ*

      How would you know for certain you’d take the job before the interview? Totally professional to do an interview even if you aren’t certain. (This sounds a little like someone who was annoyed that they got rejected as an employer, but the thing is employees/potential employees get to do that. You get to also interview the company, it should be that. Entirely reasonable to not be sure until you get an offer. Part of the do I want this job will be money/benefits/etc. Heck the way they treat you during the process can and should be a part of it and that’s reasonable too.)

    3. Teapot librarian*

      That is very weird advice that I would ignore. You should only withdraw at this point if you are sure you DON’T want the job. That’s very different than not being sure that you do.

      1. An Anon Librarian*

        I think I’m mostly not sure I want the job. There are specific things about the place that made me worried.

        1. animaniactoo*

          If you’re open to the possibility that there could be satisfying answers for those things, you should continue but bring them up as soon as possible.

          Even if you need to e-mail and say “There are some things I have some questions about after my interview, can I get some more information about XYZ and what would be the best way to go about that?”

          Don’t waste anyone’s time by waiting to bring up things that you know would be major issues for you and are already questionable from your standpoint. That’s the consideration for their time and effort (and your own) that you need to have – not a bar of “be sure you want to work there!” (That’s a ridiculous bar – a lot people accept the best offer they can get even if the company is not ideal because they think it’s workable enough and they need the paycheck.)

    4. McWhadden*

      I get that Librarians have their own norms and it is a fairly small circle within geographic areas. So it makes sense to never burn a bridge. But, still, that’s just unreasonable and unrealistic advice. The point of an interview is for both parties to see if this would work.

      And I, generally, think it’s unfair for employees to have expectations never put on employers. No one would say to a Library “don’t do an interview if you won’t hire that person on the spot!”

      1. AnotherLibrarian*

        I agree! I have had one phone interview that afterwards I pulled out of the process. I realized that my understanding of the job from the ad and their understanding of the job were totally different and I didn’t want the job they were offering. But I was upfront with them about it.

    5. Seriously?*

      That is backwards. I would say never interview for a job that you are sure you would not take. If you might take it, then stay in.

    6. Nacho*

      That’s ridiculous advice. Part of the reason you interview is to determine whether or not you want a job. That’s why you’re allowed to ask them questions too. Never accept a job if you weren’t certain you would take it, but interview whenever possible.

      As for your situation, would a generous salary/benefits package make up for the red flags you saw?

    7. Little Bean*

      If you are SURE you would not take the job, you should withdraw. If you are just not sure yet, you should stay in their process and try to ask questions to address the aspects you are unsure about. When I interviewed for my current job, I found out a lot of things during the first interview that almost made me withdraw, as the job was not exactly what I had thought it would be. But I decided to stick it out for the second interview after which I felt a little better. When they offered it to me, I asked for a follow-up conversation in order to address the specific concerns I had from the first interview, their answers reassured me and I ended up taking the job.

    8. Mephyle*

      The advice to “never interview for a job if you weren’t certain you would take it” makes no sense because (as has been discussed frequently here) the interview is also a necessary opportunity for you to “interview” the employer and decide whether the job and the situation is right for you or not. The whole application and interview process is a chance for you to gather information in this regard, but specifically when the interviewer asks the candidate “Do you have any questions?”, it’s actually the chance for you to ask any further questions that suss this out, not (as so many people think) a chance for the candidate to slip in an extra last-ditch sales pitch disguised as a question.
      Will there be more information forthcoming about the job or the employer that might sway you one way or the other? Or are you stalling on deciding yes or no, and you have decided on the moment of the offer as a hard deadline when you have to make up your mind with no further information than you have now?

  197. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

    This is just a rant but man!!!!! One of my coworkers just hung up on me, our project manager, and the vendor because she did not like the suggestion I made!!!! FFS grow up! Also she said something in a huff before hanging up too.

    Breathes deeply.

      1. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

        She is the bosses favorite so sadly outbursts like this are common and boss always defends her. : <

  198. Shy Orchid*

    I want some advice on whether or not I’m being too sensitive about a topic or if I have actually run into a workplace red flag.

    I accidentally left my wallet at home the day I had an interview (facepalm) and at this particular place I needed to have my ID in order to access further into the building. When I tried to explain this to the receptionist, she “smiled” at me and told me to sit and wait for the HR person (let’s call her Anna) to come and get me. And I write “smiled” with quotes because her expression shifted and looked very snide/snobbish to me).

    When Anna got down, and even before I could even introduce myself, she started nagging and chastising me for not having my ID. She then proceeded to rant all the way up to the 8th floor (where I was having my interview) about it.

    I was honestly speechless because of the tone she used with me (a know-it-all nagging helicopter mom tone) and my gut was screaming to get out of there right away but I was polite (didn’t want to burn any bridges) and went through with the interview. I couldn’t stop wondering if this was the way they always reacted to mistakes and unexpected things in this place.

    At the end of the day, I felt humiliated and very ashamed, and I thought I had botched any opportunity I could ever have at this place. But turns out that either Anna didn’t comment on my mishap or I really did good in my interview because I was called for a second interview as one of the final candidates for the position.

    After my experience, I wanted nothing with this place, but decided to accept the interview because I’ve been looking for a job for a good while, and I don’t know if this might turn out to be a good opportunity for my career.

    I asked previous colleagues about this place and was told by people inside that it’s a good place to work. One of my ex-colleagues even had the opportunity of interacting with Anna in several occasions and told me she was unhelpful and seemed very snobbish but that her superior was a great person, very lovely and helpful. Also, my position is not in HR so I wouldn’t have to directly deal (I think) with Anna.

    Should I consider the behaviour of the receptionist and Anna as red flags or am I being too sensitive? I already work in a toxic environment, and I don’t want to leave one toxic workplace for another, so any insight into this is very welcome.

    1. LQ*

      I think it’s totally reasonable to consider them as red flags. If they are the only flags you get you might still want to go forward so they don’t have to stop the process. But it is very reasonable to consider them as a part of it.

      I get why you might be annoyed, and maybe Anna is someone who is easily annoyed. And maybe the receptionist was having a really horrible day, and maybe the entire culture supports this behavior.

      1. Shyest*

        Thanks for the comment, I certainly hadn’t tried thinking the event from their perspective and I totally understand your point. I usually give people the benefit of doubt, but I think in this instance I was so aggravated that I failed to do that.

        I went to the second interview today (this time with my ID!) and everything went pretty good actually. I also got the insight that they’re in the middle of a huge restructuring and they’re all pretty busy, so perhaps that could have been a factor on Anna’s behavior that day.

    2. AMPG*

      You could always ask about it in the 2nd interview, if you might walk away if their treatment of you is indicative of the general environment. Maybe say, “When I was here for my last interview I accidentally forgot my ID, and this resulted in an extended lecture from one of your colleagues about it. Obviously I felt very badly about inconveniencing her, but I also wonder if her reaction is typical of the office culture here?”

      If you don’t want to get quite so specific, you can ask a more general question about how interpersonal conflicts are usually resolved in the office. But either way I would probe a bit more.

    3. An Anon Librarian*

      I would consider it a red flag. If it’s a red flag about Anne or a red flag about the job, that’s hard to say. I’d keep my eyes open for other red flags. Really do your due diligence on this one.

    4. The Ginger Ginger*

      Did they tell you to bring your ID, because if they did, I can see that being a problem on their side. NOT ONE TO LECTURE YOU OVER (for pete’s sake, what the heck?! that’s an orange flag at the very least), but as an interviewer I would note if a candidate didn’t follow instructions. But if you had no way of knowing you needed it…..red flags ahoy. People forget IDs; heck, I live in a city big enough that most people don’t drive so half of them never carry an ID in the first place.

      1. Shyest*

        They didn’t, guess they just assumed everyone carries their documents (in my country, most people do) and got annoyed out that I didn’t ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

        Today I went back for my second interview and had to talk to Anna again, she seemed more put together. She (and the hiring manager) told me that they’re in the middle of a huge restructuring and implementing new policies and changes so they’re all pretty busy, which makes me thinks that that was, perhaps, a factor on Anna’s behavior that day (maybe she was too stressed and had to go out of her way to go get me, which she wouldn’t have to do if I had my ID, so she was annoyed).

    5. animaniactoo*

      Is there a possibility that you misinterpreted the receptionist’s facial shift? Could it have been a stressed grimace-grin covering “Oh crap, now I have to call Anna about this and you just KNOW how she’s going to react. Crap crap crap.”?

      1. Shyest*

        It is posible. I’m usually good at “observing” people, but I’m open to the possibility I could have misinterpreted her expression.

    6. McWhadden*

      Anna’s behavior was definitely OTT and unacceptable. No question. And if it was the Hiring Manager I’d say it was a major red flag.

      But you aren’t in HR. Anna isn’t the one you will be working with regularly. And if none of the people you actually interviewed with think it’s a big deal that’s a good sign.

      I would still keep an open mind and see if you like the other people and what they had to say.

    7. AdAgencyChick*

      Well, it sounds like the hiring manager is a reasonable person, and Anna and the receptionist are not.

      The former is far more likely to affect your everyday work experience than the latter two, so I think it’s worth continuing to look into them.

  199. strawberries and raspberries*

    Why can no one write anymore? I’ve had to revise two pieces of writing by my colleagues today, one going to upper management to go in the org newsletter and one going to a funder for an end of year report, and both of them are absolute trash. I’m not talking misplaced comma, starting with and, etc. One person gave me something that seemed to be stream of consciousness but also somehow a list? The other person gave me a six-paragraph essay in which he told an entire story out of sequence and repeated the same thing at least twice in each paragraph. I try not to be privilege-blind or take for granted that I’m a really strong writer, but like, this is outrageous.

    1. AdAgencyChick*

      Commiseration. I mean, I work in the communications business. You would think that ALL of my colleagues, not just the copywriters, could construct a coherent sentence. Not the case.

    2. The New Wanderer*

      This is making me feel better about a writing sample I completed as part of an interview process. The company is really heaving into documentation so it makes sense, and it’s nice to know that they’re serious about vetting for writing skills.

      Previous company, I was in charge of writing a lot of things because most people didn’t want to and I like to and am good at it. When other people had to provide me with content I received a lot of cut and paste jobs, straight off the internet without citations (yes I googled phrases to find the original sources because academic-at-heart). It was really frustrating.

    3. Argh!*

      Was writing part of their job description when they were hired?

      Both of them sound like they rushed, especially if you couldn’t give it back to them with feedback on how they should revise it. Pushing the deadline ahead by a couple of days next time could help you correct this.

      And yes, many people have been cheated by their school systems. It’s not their fault. If they can learn the other aspects of their position, they can learn this.

    4. Thlayli*

      I Know how you feel. We used to get graduates in who couldn’t barely string a sentence together. I was just thinking “how did you manage to write your thesis?”.

  200. allthatremains*

    Not really a question, but I’m participating for the first time in interviews for a permanent (peer level) position at my job and it’s giving me such interesting insights to what happens on the “other side” of the interview table and just how tough hiring decisions can be. We have several really qualified candidates and I’m somewhat relieved I’m not the one that will make the ultimate call, because it’s going to be difficult to choose. I’ll work closely (both in proximity in our small office and on some projects) so perhaps I do have one question–how much should I let personality and potential in/compatibility come into play when making my recommendations to my boss? I’ve been super focused on just giving notes related to skills and how they do (or don’t) align with the position because I’ve been uncertain what role it should play in my own assessments/how appropriate it is to share. Some of my co-workers who are also participating in the interview process are remote, so I’m not sure they’ll be thinking about office dynamics in the same way

    1. bb-great*

      I think personality should definitely be a factor. Skills should probably be the primary criterion (unless someone is so terrible you couldn’t stand working with them) but if different people are roughly equally qualified, I think it’s fine to give preference to the one you see yourself working with most easily, as that will impact both of your performances.

  201. Kat*

    I really love my job but hate “Performance Self Appraisals” so much. I’m glad my boss is out of the office today so I don’t accidentally quit.

    1. Higher Ed Database Dork*

      Ugh, I hate those too. I have to do them as well. I try to think of it as an opportunity to see where me and my boss might not align. However I have a good boss now and so that works out, but my last boss would just copy/paste my self eval into his review and email it to me, and I never had an actual review with him.

    2. Argh!*

      Studies have repeatedly shown that people overestimate themselves, and that men are bigger overestimators than women. When the boss sees everyone’s self appraisal, will they think the men are actually better at their jobs because of this? If they knock off 10% from everybody’s self-score, that would give men an advantage.

      The whole appraisal process is rife with bias on all sides. It should just die.

      1. Thlayli*

        THIS.

        do what I do – give yourself full marks and let them do the hard work of arguing you down. The system Is designed to find out who they can get away with paying less.

  202. Close down the circus, sell all the monkeys*

    We took on another person with the same job title as me from a different department (a bit fuzzy what went on there exactly) who is now in a lesser role than me (in title, etc.), but gets to keep her previous salary (which is $5K more than I get) through June 2019. The funds are coming from a different department, not ours (which I was told three different times), so I guess I have no right to have feelings? Then I was asked to coordinate some meetings that need to be staffed, some possibly in the evening, but can I staff those because apparently she doesn’t work past 5? (Um, we’re all exempt.) I feel like this person is being protected somehow and I don’t know why, but all I am seeing is red. My boss also thinks employees at our level are already overpaid, so asking him for parity is out of the question because her salary will supposedly go down to the normal level after 15 months of getting her higher salary. So I guess when I find a new job for more money, he can’t be shocked, right?!

    1. SpaceNovice*

      Oh, he’ll be shocked and ask you why couldn’t you have talked to him first!! (Also: good luck!)

  203. AcademiaNut*

    For those in academia in the U.S., what do you do for “references” when applying for an *internal posting* that asks for the usual CV/Cover Letter/3 References? It’s such a weirdly stiff requirement that I should give references to the people who already work with me on a day-to-day basis.

    1. AnotherJill*

      Academia has pretty strict rules about hiring compliance. Where I worked, you would be disqualified from consideration if you did not supply references, even for an internal position.

    2. Higher Ed Database Dork*

      I used three current coworkers, one of whom was a director level and had some level of authority over me, even though I didn’t actually report to her (didn’t want to use my actual manager for various reasons). She did however supervise a lot of my work and train me on many things. However, the position was in another division on campus (I went from non-IT to IT) so the people I was interviewing with didn’t know me.

      I guess if it’s a promotion or something where the internal move is within the same department, I’d still do current coworkers, maybe through in a former manager if you have one who would be relevant.

  204. wits end*

    My employee as a single mom has exhausted all her PTO and sick time. She requested I advance her 5 days because her day care would be closed and she has no alternate day care. I agreed only to find out that she is really on a cruise. Should I fire her?

    1. Friday*

      Is she on the cruise because she has to be off work anyway because of the kid? I only ask because I literally just planned a short trip for when my oldest has a gap in daycare over the summer.

        1. Thlayli*

          If you know that for sure, that’s a big problem. I dunno if straight to firing big, or written warning big, I think that depends on the company and how her performance is, but it’s definitely a disciplinary issue.

    2. Nacho*

      That definitely sounds like a heavy PIP worthy situation, but I don’t know if I would skip straight to firing. Obviously she will never be allowed another “advance” on her PTO again, and she’ll have to work hard to regain your trust, but think about how hard it is to train someone to replace her.

    3. CatCat*

      I think you need more information. If the day care is closed and she has to take care of her kid, she could very well be on a cruise. No reason to sit around home for 5 days. That’s not a problem.

      If the day care is not closed or she did have alternate daycare, and she lied to you so she could get days off, that is a problem. It goes to her integrity and willingness to lie at work for personal gain.

  205. Earthwalker*

    If you’re retired, what do you do with Linked In? I feel weird getting so much attention from the working world. Recruiters look at me constantly (even though I’m listed retired) and strangers constantly ask to be added to my contact list. People I used to know offer glowing recommendations of how wonderful I am at doing things I’ve never done, which I assume means I’m supposed to respond in kind and say something wonderful about them, true or not. I was hoping to be a Linked In lurker but since retiring I’ve gotten way more attention than when I was working. I’m reluctant to delete my account and all that contact information. What do you do?

    1. The Librarian (not the type from TNT)*

      I’d say it’s perfectly acceptable to keep the profile but just forget about it. You can go into the settings at the upper right corner of the screen and turn off all notifications so that you are never notified by LinkedIn about anything, and can enjoy your retirement (but still have it there waiting for you if you eventually decide you want/need to work again). At least turning off the notifications should remove the stress/guilt of not responding.

      1. Earthwalker*

        Thanks, Librarian! I hadn’t even thought to check notification settings.

  206. WonderingHowIGotIntoThis*

    I’m conflicted. I’m still very frustrated at work, but yesterday I was awarded a 10% pay rise – that’s the biggest percentage I’ve ever been given, as well being told that I got the biggest rise of my team. But my frustrations are still there – I now feel I’m being fairly compensated, at least monetarily, but the other motivation factors are still missing.

    But it’s a Bank Holiday weekend here, and we’re forecast another heatwave, so at least I can sit in the garden and leave my frustrations to Tuesday.

    1. London Calling*

      Same. Best paid job I have ever had and in many ways the most interesting and certainly one where management are more appreciative of me than I can ever recall being the case; but the commute is a killer and let’s not even start with the atmosphere in our department.

    2. lopsided*

      I got the advice from my mentor this week to be more selfish. You look out for you. You can be appreciative of the raise and see it as validation for a job well done, while also clearly seeing the less desirable areas of your current job and looking at other options.

  207. char*

    Tiny gripe: right now I’m off from work for a couple weeks recovering from surgery. The surgery was planned well in advance, so I was able to request time off ahead of time and plan for my absence.

    The thing is, my coworker kept referring to my time off as a “vacation”, even after I told her that it was for a medical procedure. She even announced it to the rest of the team as a vacation. Let me tell you, this is not a vacation! Surgery is not fun and the recovery process is super uncomfortable and boring. I can’t wait until I’m recovered enough to get back to work… at which point I’ll probably have to deal with even more vaguely envious comments from my coworker about my wonderful “vacation”. Sigh.

    1. animaniactoo*

      “Hey, you’re welcome to all the pain and inconvenience to go with the time off if you need it that badly. Personally, I could have done without, but hey – you do you.”

    2. DietCokeHead*

      Oh, I sympathize. I was off for about a week after a surgical procedure and my friend kept saying things like I wish I was home. Like, sure I really wish I didn’t feel like crap and I’d rather be at work.

  208. FloralsForever*

    I have an issue regarding office noise. We work in an open office but with cubicles. There are about 7 people in this office. I’m on the phone about 15 hrs/month with a member of our executive team, usually in 1-2 hour chunks hammering out details. Sometimes he will call me at random. I do have a loud voice but I try to keep it down and schedule my phone meetings during lunch to minimize disruptions to others. The person in the next cubicle complains every time I am on the phone that she cannot do her work. We have conference rooms and she’s requesting that I go in one because “I have a single monitor set-up”, which I actually don’t. I’ve tried talking to her about it, as being on the phone is part of my job, but still complains. She has a separate room dedicated to document storage with desk space, but doesn’t have a dual monitor set up in there. Headphones don’t seem to be an option for her. She also has business visitors an average of 2 – 3 days/month that create a lot of distraction for me as well, but I power through as its the cost of doing business. I can escalate for a solution but I’m hoping someone might have recommendations.

    If it helps, I am used to offices where people are on the phone for business related things. If its an in person meeting or conference call, I take them in conference rooms. I think personal phone calls should be taken away from desks.

    Thanks!

    1. Argh!*

      Have you told her to talk to her or your boss about it? This seems like something you can’t change. If she’s noise-sensitive, that’s really her issue, and it’s up to her boss to accommodate her, not you.

      If you two can agree that both of you are distracted by each other, perhaps you can form a united front to ask the higher-ups for a more productive atmosphere. (Don’t tell them you’re annoyed by noise — tell them you work more slowly and make more mistakes when you’re distracted)

    2. LQ*

      I assume you’re not taking these calls on speaker phone? And your phone volume is sufficient that you don’t have to speak up extra loud to be heard?

      I can’t fathom this. Is this office really incredibly quiet otherwise? Visitors 2-3 days a month indicates it might be a fairly quiet office. (I feel like I’m having a quiet day if I’ve only got 2-3 visits a day.) This really seems like just how you do business.

      Actual suggestions as someone who is Also Loud.
      Having the conversation facing away from her cube or whatever is reflecting your voice can help (I’m loud, but when I have conversations standing my voice carries across the whole cube land even at a whisper, so I make sure I’m sitting.)
      Having something fabric to do a little sound absorption in front of where you’re talking can also help (fabric and heavy would be idea, but that’s a little harder to manage).
      People inevitably complain more when I talk faster than when I talk slower even if my volume is higher when I’m slower. (Someone once told me that it created a sense of urgency (excitement actually but whatever) and caused them stress, so sometimes slowing down can be helpful.)
      Sometimes white noise between can be helpful (a fan is good for this) it again raises the overall volume but seems to bother people less.
      Stop scheduling phone time during lunch, it might be that it’s disrupting her lunch that bothers her, not that it’s disrupting her work. If it’s during work time not lunch it will feel more like work to her to I suspect. Even if you literally answer and hang up the phone with the CEOs name.
      If you have planned calls and can manage them in a conference room that doesn’t seem too bad, but you shouldn’t be expected to and you’re going to have spur of the moment calls.

      At some point she has to suck it up and let people do their work.

      1. FloralsForever*

        It is a quiet office, but there are others that talk to each other at their cubicles and talk on the phone. When I say visitors, I mean people outside of the organization that she’s helping. They’re not stationed at her desk, but there’s a lot of movement and talking over cubicles, people coming over etc. I think she has issue because I project because she does not complain about anyone else. No one else complains about my volume. I do not take calls on speaker phone at my desk because that seems ridiculous to me.
        She goes out for lunch so it’s not an issue of her lunch being interrupted, that’s why I do it to minimize distractions. I thought it would be a reasonable accommodation. I face away and at a fabric cubicle.

        But yes, thank you. This is an issue for her if she cannot manage the noise (anytime I complain about noise, everyone tells me to just put in headphones although I usually just go into a conference room rather than have others interrupt their work for me). We do completely different jobs and if management is not providing what she needs to get her work done, maybe we can ask them to rectify that.

        1. LQ*

          I know what you mean about projection. It really does sound like you’ve checked all the boxes you can. At some point being at work means people around you are working…

    3. nancy*

      Does she know about the phone calls in advance? Maybe you could give her a heads up for the scheduled calls so she can plan to work elsewhere or work on something that doesn’t require concentration. Not much you can do about the unscheduled calls.

      At this point every time she complains to you all you can do is repeat what you’ve suggested to her, or even just say it’s not an option to leave your desk–don’t offer excuses, don’t justify, don’t defend. Part of your job is to be on these calls and they have to be done at your desk.

    4. BRR*

      Something that helped when my colleague was on the phone literally all day was they sat on the far side of their cube from me. The couple extra feet of distance helped mitigate the noise.

    5. Gatomon*

      Sounds like you two probably shouldn’t be seated next to each other. Can you jointly approach management/facilities and ask to be re-arranged? In my company loud talkers are moved to the periphery of the cube plans.

      1. FloralsForever*

        LOL this is so funny because she CHOSE the cubicle next to mine. We were fortunate enough to choose our space in a new building. I chose to sit in the far cubicle because there are more walls to this one and it’s farthest from the door. She liked the one next to me for desk space, even though there’s an identical cube maybe 20 feet away (that is now taken). It was fine until I started talking on the phone due to a new boss. She will not want to move because of the desk space issue. I am already on the periphery, away from the rest, she just chose to follow me.

    7. Noise*

      You have to conduct your own business no matter what. You can take steps to try to mitigate your own noise levels to make it known to your superior that you tried to resolve it on your own terms first:

      A constantly running fan for white noise. Run every single day until it’s part of the noise fabric that she’s used to; decorating your shared wall with fabric; sitting down and further away from her; examining the furniture layout in both of your offices and filling that space with more furniture if it’s bare-bones minimalistic to help absorb sound. Can’t bring in furniture or borrow some? Bring in plants. Green it up. It’s not only healthy for your breathing space, but they’ll reduce sound too.

      You can take steps to accommodate her. Prove it to her, show it her, then go back to her and ask what she’s going to do help resolve the situation as well? And if she keeps hammering back the point she just wants you to go away into the conference room, then stop accommodating her. At the end of the day, it’s on her to find her own work place happiness and comfort.

      Why aren’t headphones an option for her? The expense? The comfort?

      A joint front and request for a cubicle relocation as mentioned above might be best.

      1. FloralsForever*

        Yes, after all your responses, I will be re-framing it as a distraction issue for her, not that I am too loud. Headphones are not an option because she’s reviewing documents and “needs quiet” to do so. But thank you for giving me a script that she needs to resolve the situation. I’ve already taken steps to accommodate her, although I do NOT go into a conference room just for a phone call. I think the problem is that we used to do this because we didn’t have desk phones before. But now we do, and my extension is connected to my name in the system, which has proven to be very helpful.

  209. Argh!*

    Late to the party, but in case anyone has any suggestions, I’ll welcome them.

    My communication style tends to be rather direct. In my younger days I eliminated wishy-washy “feminine” aspects of communication, such as modifiers that soften the meaning or impact of words, using phrases like “This may be a stupid idea, but here goes…” etc.

    My current workplace has a lot of old-fashioned women who speak the way I trained myself to avoid. Also, they tend to be very indirect and roundabout. They will often repeat themselves or just keep talking, rather than put a period on the end of a sentence. Another thing they do is repeat questions in a rather ingratiating way, e.g., “Are you sure, because you could say no” or “Okay, but you don’t have to if you don’t want to…”

    I try very hard to adapt, but I get accused of interrupting (because my coworkers never seem to take a breath or come to a point!), or other faux pas. To my credit, I will let them drag out an exchange for a few minutes before asking why they don’t believe me when I say “yes” or interrupting to try to get a word in edgewise. I don’t change the topic or tell them they’re chatty cathy’s. I just dialogue with them rather than waiting for a break that seems never to come. If you are this type of communicator, what is the best way to help you end a looping monologue tactfully?

    Also, which of these things do you hate in yourself or feel aren’t unproductive? I have considered trying to imitate some of my coworkers but I’m not having much luck in speech. I do try to insert a lot of extraneous phrases into emails asking them to do something (If I’m answering a question I just answer it and that’s the end of it).

    Do you have any tips on how to seem more demure, deferential, or indirect? I am none of those things, and I can see that my boss favors those women who are.

    1. LQ*

      I don’t know if I can help on most of it. But indirect I highly recommend metaphors, analogies, and coming at the problem with a story. Backing your way into your answer with a story is a really good way to be indirect. I try to have a few solid metaphors hanging around. There’s always a house metaphor I can come up with. I’m trying to use it to get people to stop talking in such a deeply technical way that I can’t understand them (and shouldn’t need to!) but it can be good for a lot of things.

      Yes. Totally have things I hate in myself. Apparently people get weird when I get excited and animated. I’m engaged in the conversation but people around me who are more…flat think I’m angry or anxious or whatever. No, I’m just paying attention and actually enjoy my job. It’s odd because it means no one recognizes what I actually look like when I’m angry and so they seem to gloss over that (which is fine it means I’m doing an ok job of hiding that emotion). But in general I need to be flatter emotionally at work. Right now I’m really on edge because I’ve been going really hard for a really long time and I’m worn down but I don’t know how to fix it so it’s harder for me to flatten it out.

      1. Argh!*

        I get animated about my work, too. I’ll be the only one in our round-robin monthly meetings who isn’t careful and measured. I just don’t get why these people are in their jobs!

    2. nep*

      Ooooh — I hate to think of a woman changing her ways to be more deferential or less direct. Directness is so refreshing; I’ve got no use for the ‘sorry, um, this is probably a dumb idea, but…’ and I’d be ecstatic to work with more people like you. That doesn’t address your problem, but I wanted to put that out there. I reckon you’re being diplomatic and polite, which seem to me the essentials.
      I’ll be interested to read the responses here. This is a tough one; my advice would be to change nothing but you make the point that your boss seems not to favor your manner.

    3. FloralsForever*

      Do you repeat back their points to them? Do you use humor? For example, instead of interrupt them with an answer you interject to say, “I’m so sorry, just to clarify, you are saying x?” You can eliminate the “I’m so sorry” but it seems like they might be more responsive if you make the deferral. Sometimes people who go on and on just need to feel heard, sometimes not. It’s a tactic I use and it’s helpful sometimes. I can be blunt sometimes, but people are responsive to me because I make sure that communications are clear and that the other’s point is made, and I usually make a self deprecating joke now and again regarding my bluntness. Now when it comes to people I don’t want to talk to socially, I keep my answers short and excuse myself from the convo with a little joke as soon as I can – “Oh my work waits for no one!”

      1. nep*

        I like this sort of ‘active listening’ approach. ‘So you’re saying…’
        Might be a good way to get a word in and at least interrupt the stream.

    4. C*

      I like direct communication too, and applaud that you’ve gotten past those culturally ingrained tics many of us have. In addition to the active listening advice, I would think about how you might be not necessarily self-deprecating, but more self-aware about your direct communication style – and that it’s not everyone’s style. So, instead of: “Why don’t you believe me when I say yes?” which implies that they have a problem; try “I” statements: “Linda, I promise you, I only say yes to things when I really mean it. You know me, I’m pretty blunt [a straight-shooter, direct], right? So, I wouldn’t say yes to you if I didn’t sincerely mean it. You can always trust me on that.”

  210. FaintlyMacabre*

    I have an interview on Monday, and I’m trying not to drive myself crazy. Good thoughts, please!

    Also, I interviewed for this job about two years ago (the job wasn’t filled due to lack of funding). Should I mention that? If so, how do I work it in to conversation?

    1. Argh!*

      Congratulations! They probably already know about the previous interview, but you could express sympathy for the funding situation and say how great it is that they have funding now. (i.e., make it about them & their mission, not about you)

    2. nep*

      I think in most cases it would be a positive to mention this; shows yours is not just a passing interest.
      Good luck with the interview. We’ll be eager to hear how it goes.

  211. nep*

    Applied last week for a copy editor job. As soon as I sent the resume and cover letter, received a proofreading/copy editing test. Wow. I just couldn’t get over how ridiculous some of the questions were. They almost sounded as if they were designed for non-native speakers — nothing against non-native speakers; I simply mean they struck me as being designed for someone who doesn’t have a long history in the language. I can’t fathom why the questions would be like that.

    1. The New Wanderer*

      Just a guess, but either they get a lot of applicants who are non-native speakers and want to ensure basic literacy in the language, or they edit a lot of material written by non-native speakers. (I’ve reviewed lots of papers written by non-native speakers, just basic editing would be a huge job!)

  212. Side gig*

    How important is it for someone to believe in what they are selling?

    Background, I have great sources of untreated artesian water and organic herbal extracts; I’m also well experienced in aseptic technique. For the heck of it, I was running the numbers for selling homeopathics online and the profit margins are incredible. But, IMO, homeopathic “medicine” is, well, pure snake oil. But $15-$40 for 30-40 mL of water and a $0.40 dropper bottle? I’ll even throw in free shipping!

    I am having some qualms about contributing to the stupiding of America by selling woo, but I wouldn’t be defrauding anyone, they’d be getting exactly what I would advertise. No health claims though, just “consult your health professional.”

    Thoughts?

    1. Manders*

      I think everyone has an ethical line they won’t cross. That line’s in a different place for every person. For me, selling homeopathic medicine is well over that line, but selling some other unnecessary trinket like cheap t-shirts isn’t. If you look at both on a global level, producing cheap t-shirts in sweatshops probably actively harms just as many people as fake eardrops, but that’s where my line is.

      That said, when you’re starting a business, you’ve got to be really deep in that subject for 8-10 hours a day every day for years. Even people who don’t find it morally repugnant to pretend they’re selling medicine might have a hard time keeping up that passion over time, especially when a different industry could be just as profitable.

    2. Buu*

      Could you live with yourself if someone took permanent harm if they bought something from you instead of seeking proper medical treatment? Is is still OK if rather than being foolish or having beliefs you think are silly that the person who gets hurt has a learning disability or is old and vulnerable?

    3. Thlayli*

      I think the only way you could get people to buy it would be by marketing it as medicine, which is unethical.

      If you were to market it as water, that’s not unethical since that’s what it is.

      But what you propose is at least more ethical than selling people bleach to give their kids to “cure” their autism. You wouldn’t be directly harming people. But you could be preventing them from getting better.

      As pp said, only you can make ethical decisions for how you live your life.

    4. Book Lover*

      I think the concern is that instead of getting real medical care, people will be using the products you sell. And you might argue that standard medical care doesn’t do that much…. But this week I saw a patient who didn’t come in until after they were so yellow their family forced him to. They just kept taking more supplements instead. Their cancer may be resectable, but if they had come in earlier they would have had more hope.
      I have also done end of life care for a thirty year old who chose homeopathic treatments for her early cervical cancer. Until it wasn’t early any more and was terminal. That was devastating.

  213. Kate H*

    I’m hoping for a reality check. I’ve been in my first full-time job for about nine months now. We’re all expected to work as close to 40 hours a week as possible without going over. If we do go into overtime, our supervisor gets an angry email from the HR lady and has to talk to us about not letting it happen again. Hours are set, although we can come in an hour early or stay an hour late with permission. In addition to this, for every hour short of 40 that we work, we have to pay extra toward our insurance premium. If I take a day off, not only do I lose those 8 hours of pay, but I end up losing even more pay for my insurance. Is this normal for an office position?

    1. Nacho*

      The not going over part is normal enough depending on how strict they are (are we talking blow ups over 5-10 minutes, or 1-2 hours here?), but paying extra towards insurance premiums sounds weird.

    2. zora*

      The insurance premium pay is weird. I have never had that be a thing anywhere I have worked. I don’t get why that’s a thing. And are you saying you don’t get any paid time off at all? That if you take any time off it’s unpaid? That is also not normal, and I think you should keep job searching for a job with PTO.

      As for working exactly 40 hours, yes that is normal everywhere I have been hourly. The way it works is you plan to get to work 5 minutes early and you are at your desk officially working at 9:00 am. And then at 4:45pm you start wrapping things up for the day, so that you are at a stopping point at 5:00pm, then you pick up your stuff and head out. It is definitely expected that you don’t just keep working until 6 without getting explicit permission for overtime.

      It does feel a little weird sometimes if you’re in the middle of something and realize you can’t finish by 5, and currently I even have a timer set for myself for 4:45 to remind me to start getting ready to go because I lose track of time, but this is how hourly, non-exempt jobs work in every office I’ve ever worked in. Sometimes it means I have to send a message to someone at 4:50 saying, I haven’t been able to finish this, but I can start again in the morning. Sometimes it means if someone comes to give me something at 4:45 I have to remind them I am hourly and I have to leave at 5.

      1. Kate H*

        We get the major holidays paid but no PTO for the first year of employment. After our first year, we get one week of PTO. Two years is two weeks. Then two weeks a year until five years employment.

        1. zora*

          ugh that is so stingy. If you are in the US, I think you should keep searching while you are employed for a job with paid time off. I have never worked somewhere with no PTO for a full year, that is nuts. The most I ever experienced was 90 days and that was for a grocery store. Every other job I’ve had you get 1-2 weeks of PTO in your first year.

    3. Gatomon*

      The hours aren’t unusual to me, though I think most professional jobs are more flexible. When I worked for a government office overtime was basically forbidden. When I worked in retail and for a non-profit it was super strict too. My current private sector job doesn’t seem to care as long as it’s legitimate work (not someone sitting around taking advantage) — they just budget for x% of overtime each year in departments where staff aren’t exempt. It’s IT, so there’s a certain level of unpredictability. No one can predict when something will break and cause the help desk to go into OT.

      As for the insurance reimbursement, that seems odd. Once I had to take sick leave when I was new at a job and didn’t qualify for PTO yet. I had to take it as unpaid leave, but it didn’t affect my insurance reimbursement that pay period, and I didn’t have to make up that time either.

      It seems like your company is… really budget-conscious? Is it a non-profit where funds are always tight? Are their other benefits kind of lousy? Do they offer any other benefits? Sounds like a place to cut your teeth at and then move on.

      1. Kate H*

        I suppose budget-conscious would be a nice way to put it. We’re a manufacturing company owned by an international manufacturing company. We offer a variety of other benefits–dental, optical, supplemental, life insurance, 401(k) matching. I don’t make a lot of money so I passed on most of the benefits. Morale has been super low as our previous insurance policy didn’t require employees to pay in at all and had deductibles that are a fraction of the lowest we can get now.

    4. Thlayli*

      The hours thing is pretty strict but not too unusual.

      The insurance I guess makes sense because they presumably pay a fixed rate each month to insurance, which they take out of your hourly pay, and then give you the remainder.
      Eg let’s say they budget to give you $11 an hour. You get $10, or $400 a week, and they keep $1, or $40 a week which goes to your insurance. So in a week in which you take 5 hours off, they have $35 from your wages, but they still have to pay $40 to insurance which they take out of what they pay you. So instead of getting $350 for that week you get $335.

      This makes complete sense logically, but it is pretty mean. Most companies would budget differently and just pay the $40 a week regardless of how much you work, and pay you $10 for each hour you work.

  214. Just Wondering*

    Is anyone else inarticulate when speaking (vs. when writing) and is conventionally successful? I have tried Toastmasters, but I don’t think public speaking skills are what I need to work on.

    1. The New Wanderer*

      Depends on what you mean by inarticulate. Public speaking? I had a terrible time giving public presentations until I learned I just have to practice out loud multiple times beforehand. Like, five complete run-throughs. The first couple are always brutal but the end result is I feel comfortable with knowing what I’m going to say and even ad libbing a little. I don’t have to practice that much anymore but I still will if it’s a big deal (conference talk, or presenting to executives).

      Speaking up in a group? That one is tougher. I still stammer at times and forget words, but not often enough to keep me from talking altogether. Mostly I try to rehearse in my head what I’m going to say so it comes out smoothly. I don’t know if anyone really notices except for me. Maybe in the moment, but I doubt people think of me as a stammerer or inarticulate.

    2. Princess Scrivener*

      Just Wondering, are you an introvert? I am, and while I write as a full-time job, I find it hard to express myself in meetings, and even on the phone. And please give me a minute to formulate answers to impromptu questions! My manager and I have had conversations about this, and thankfully, she recognizes and values my strength (written communication). She’s basically told me, “You do you.” I have a very understanding work team; my closest work friends have told me my stammering and struggling are not as bad as I think.

  215. DietCokeHead*

    I had an interview this morning! I think k I did as well as I could and the next step is a second interview for the top candidates. I’m really hoping I get to the second round.

  216. Is this an overshare?*

    Looking for perspective. I have a colleague who recently went on maternity leave. She has a client facing role, but not in a way where she works closely with specific clients on an ongoing basis. I know she wasn’t regularly telling clients about her leave before she left because she happened to ask me if I thought it were OK that she didn’t pre-emptively tell people. However, it also wasn’t something she was keeping super close to the vest. If someone, for example, asked to schedule a meeting with her after her scheduled last day, she’d tell them she couldn’t because she’s be on mat leave then.
    The person covering for her is doing a great job at all aspects of the work, but is doing something that struck me as a little off. Not a huge deal, but still seemed not the best idea to me. When CoveringPerson responds to clients who reached out to NewMom (which got autoredirected to CoveringPerson) CoveringPerson every time says “I’ll be helping you since NewMom is on maternity leave”.
    Am I overreacting that I think that’s not a great way to reply? Not that maternity leave need to be secret or anything, but from more of a “not my news to tell” standpoint, this feels not right to me. I am not in a client facing role currently, but if I were stepping in here I’d probably leave it at “I can help you with that” and not explain why, and if someone pushed or inquired why they didn’t get to work with NewMom this time I’d probably say “she’s not available” or maybe “she’s out of the office” and not go into more detail. Maybe if someone said something indicating they already knew (like “oh did she have the baby”) I wouldn’t lie or anything, but I wouldn’t volunteer this info myself first.
    I don’t think CoveringPerson is committing any kind of horrible sin or anything. It just feels a little cringey.

    Am I overthinking it?

    1. Forking Great Username*

      I think that you’re overthinking it. She’s just trying to make it clear that they’re not randomly being pushed off to someone that is not the employee they asked for, and that said employee isn’t just out for a day, week, etc. While I’m sure there are other ways she could word it, this doesn’t register as a big deal to me.

      1. Is this an overshare?*

        Does it make a difference if in this context, the people reaching out should’ve had no expectation of working with any particular person anyway? IE they’re always assigned to someone at random when they initiate contact. The people in question, in the cases when they were doing so, were reaching out directly to NewMom because she happened to be the last person they talked to (which may have occurred months ago), not because she’s “assigned to” them or because they would normally be guaranteed to work with her (nor would they be allowed to specifically request her). I didn’t bring this up initially since it didn’t seem important in the moment, but they don’t get to “ask for” any specific employee in this role, so there shouldn’t be an impression of getting pushed off. (and the people who are trying to get a specific person are skirting protocol would get told not to do that, even if it didn’t involve someone on leave)

        1. White Lady*

          It really doesn’t matter – they aren’t doing anything out of the ordinary, inappropriate or problematic. Let it go.

    2. Nacho*

      I think it sounds reasonable. It lets people know NewMom is out for a long time, but not forever, and for a good reason, but not one anybody should be worried for her over.

    3. Fairly Odd*

      Yes, you’re overthinking it. What they are saying is perfectly normal and reasonable.

    4. Eve*

      Not available or out implies she could be back from lunch or returning tomorrow. If you are really bothered I guess you could ask she says “extended leave” instead of specifically saying which type.

  217. FrustratedHR*

    I work for a smaller company and am responsible for hiring our intern candidates. We’re small so we can’t afford to pay them, but I remain conscious about the application process and providing equal opportunity and fair reviews for everyone who applies to our company.

    Summer internships are, of course, hot real estate for college students and the application pool is always extremely competitive. Logistically, I can only handle 4-5 interns under my direct supervision. They’re a big investment of my work time, and we simply don’t have the desk/computer space for more – even on rotating schedules.

    I’ll go through my hiring process as normal, selecting the top applicants and then bringing them in for an interview. If all goes well, I’m happy to offer a position to a young professional looking to build their experience in the industry my company is in.

    Frustratingly, however, what usually happens is:

    After selecting my interns that I personally want to work with and supervise, and then offering them the job and finalizing the hire–one of my superiors suddenly has a daughter or son of a friend or of a friend of a friend that we just simply have to hire to grease that relationship wheel and keep that individual happy. From their perspective, a happy contact is beneficial for business and it’s a favor owed to us later down the line.

    From my perspective, I now have to figure out how to make this candidate work. Thankfully, I’ve never had to go back one of my original hires and tell them “so long” to make room for the boss’ recommendation. I’ve honored my hires. In the event that I would have to, I guess I would ask them to defer to another time and keep the employment offer available.

    But these last-minute shoe-ins from the boss are a hassle, and even though I make the best effort to give these recommendations the benefit of the doubt, they ultimately just aren’t up to par and the even the boss doesn’t feel their performance was great enough to turn around and want to hire them after they’ve completed the internship. But, yet, it happens again and again and again.

    And based on that habitual frequency, I’m now just going to have to keep a “nepotistic” spot open for this kind of shenanigans. And I feel weird and greasy about it. Because here’s the situation I’m in now:

    I have almost hired at my max capacity. I’ve offered an interview to a candidate and it’s already scheduled, but I have not offered a position. My boss has now come in with a different candidate for me to evaluate. It’s entirely possible my boss’ candidate will be fabulous and outperform the one I’ve selected. But in the event the boss’ candidate is subpar and mine is stellar – I will feel pressured into hiring their candidate anyway and asking the other one to defer.

    Unfortunately, even after 40+ years in the business, the company I work for does not have an official HR manual. Nor was I offered any guidance or training on hiring practices. So, ultimately, I do the best I can do while trying to educate myself with appropriate resources where I can find them.

    It’s awful that I would hire a lesser qualified candidate sooner because the boss instructed to me to, but as far as I can tell: that’s not illegal — unless the hiring of the lesser qualified candidate constitutes a violation of Title VII.

    Has anyone else who has been in a position of hiring had a similar experience, and did you find yourself ultimately doing what the boss asked because of the weird, political minefield around that sticky situation?

    1. The New Wanderer*

      Since these are unpaid internships anyway, is there any way to have a part-time internship option for the nepotism candidates? Either just a month, or 10 hrs/week or something where it still counts as an internship on paper but doesn’t take a full spot from a better-qualified candidate. I don’t know if you can do that without making it seem like a lesser position, unless it’s framed like you’ve already hit your quota of good hires but want to give nep hire an opportunity, so here’s a compromise?

      Otherwise it sounds like just a Thing common to some industries and/or small businesses and your best option is to limit to one nep hire spot per intern session.

    2. Thlayli*

      Since it’s unpaid can’t you just hire both of them?
      In all fairness having unpaid full time work is pretty discriminatory anyway, since many many people will not be able to afford to do that, so I wouldn’t worry too much about having none nepotism hire when pretty much all your hires are discriminatory.

      I’m Not blaming you for this, I applaud the efforts you’ve made to make it as much of a meritocracy as you can in the situation. But unpaid internships can never be a true meritocracy (except perhaps in a theoretical socialist utopia), because most people can’t afford to work for free. So give the inherent discrimination of unpaid internships, worrying about nepotism is like stocking a band aid on a broken leg.

      1. Thlayli*

        Sorry for multiple typos – clearly I need to empty loads from my phones memory as my autocorrect has gone bonkers!

        Hope this still makes sense

      2. FrustratedHR*

        Without a doubt, unpaid internships certainly are discriminatory as you’ve pointed out – not everyone can afford to give someone their time for free. The federal guidelines are there to make sure they remain educational and no one’s taking advantage of labor that a regular employee could do, etc, but yes: a person from an affluent socioeconomic background is more likely going to be able to chase an unpaid internship to bulk up their resume.

        Whereas someone with lesser economic means may not even be able to consider the idea of doing one–especially if it means relocating to another area for the industry. Just like not everyone can afford to accept low-salary, entry level positions without some type of support system: whether it’s family funding or self-funding with another job on the side moonlighting. I fantasize about us giving them at least minimum wage–there have certainly been lawsuits at other companies to merit us doing this to protect ourselves–but in the event the boss did offer pay to this position, I suspect I would be instructed to limit the available positions even further to control payroll.

        As we tend to hire directly from our intern pool for long-term salary positions, those individuals who can make the unpaid internship work are thus in a better position to secure paid work at our company. That is the ugly truth of the situation.

        In the event that I didn’t try to keep a handle on the amount of nepotistic hires, even as temporary unpaid, we could very much end up with a situation where our ultimate hired-on-salary employees are non-diverse. And there is a widely diverse candidate pool even in unpaid internships – so while the whole unpaid situation is pretty discriminatory to begin with – it can get even further discriminatory if nepotistic hires go unchecked or uncontrolled. I want to do my part to make sure the best candidates are getting the opportunity, even with the situation I’m working with.

        I could hire both of them, yes. Whether I defer one to another time or put one on part-time: those are all options in this unpaid circumstance. I would be staring a different scenario if it were paid – but, alas, even in that situation the nepotistic hire is still legal and game.

        In any case, moving forward, it’s a situation I have to remember to allow room for so that I don’t feel overwhelmed when another intern is added to my plate of supervision. I can’t control who my superiors want me to hire and that is, ultimately, that.

        Thanks for listening :)

    3. McWhadden*

      Ugh this is a minefield. I don’t envy you. I have been in a somewhat similar position.

      I would pushback as much as possible. Like say “Sheila has excellent qualifications and we’d love to take her on board. But we are already past the application stage and onto the interview stage. Can she apply next earlier next year?” It’s not a rejection of the candidate. Just a request for a procedure. And it has the benefit of making the person vocalize what they are *really* asking for. Which is for you to bypass all rules to hire their snowflake. Some people will be uncomfortable doing that.

      Now, that won’t always work. And, at the end of the day, it’s not worth creating a lot of difficulties for yourself in the workplace. If they pushback then you might have to give up

      And it doesn’t end the nepotism problem. But at the very least maybe you can get these people to just apply at the normal time and go through normal procedures. Rather than last minute scrambling to get them in.

      1. FrustratedHR*

        Well, it’s happened often enough in the past that I have been able to wriggle out of the situation and push back by proving the nepotistic candidate is not as well-qualified as my selection.

        This time around, however, I was directly instructed to color outside the lines and make special overtures for the candidate. My boss instructed me to call this person and ask for the materials I needed in order to further evaluate them.

        With all procedure thrown to the wind, I felt personally devalued in being forced to chase this person. But I put on the happy front and did I was told. Of course, this could all turn out to be a fabulous hire who I build a friendly professional relationship with, but I’m definitely feeling some resentment towards my boss for disregarding the process I have in place.

        I’ll get over it, but it has me evaluating my own future in this position.

        But you’re right: sometimes it’s not worth the difficulty that I’ll inevitably face if I don’t give in to the boss’ demands.

        And it’s good to know I’m not the only one who’s had to navigate this horrible, horrible circumstance.

  218. Alle*

    Job searching is frustrating. I had a phone interview with an HR rep, who then invited me for another interview. She offered available times but never confirmed it, and gave mixed messages if it was another phone interview (with the local office manager) or actually in person at the local office. It’s suppose to be on Monday, and now it’s Friday evening and she still hasn’t confirmed anything. Do I actually go to the office at the initial time mentioned? Do I wait by the phone? I’m also annoyed because I asked my roommate (whose apparently in a bad mood) and she blew up at me when I said their HR isn’t very good to keep people confused the day before an interview, especially when they first invited me last Tuesday and I had to follow up this morning to get any response. Obviously it’s my job to cater to them if I want a job, but I still think it’s a red flag. If only I wasn’t desperate for a new job….

    Anyway, this is not a fun Friday night.

    1. FollowUp*

      Followup skills are definitely an important part of the application process and demonstrating follow-through in communication is part of the professional environment-especially when someone else is at fault. So while the HR personnel may be at fault for being unclear, it still remains your responsibility to chase them for a clear response.

      The appointment was requested last Tuesday, but they were unclear about whether the next interview would be over the phone or in the office. You called/e-mailed to confirm the Friday before the Monday you’re scheduled to interview and still it was unclear.

      You might:

      Call them first thing Monday morning to confirm your appointment time. “Hi, I wanted to confirm our appointment today at two o’clock (or whenever). I know you mentioned it was today, but I wasn’t clear on whether you’d like conduct that over the phone or in-person. Should I expect to arrive at your office later today?”

      Phrase it in a way that puts the blame on you, the misunderstanding on your end, even if that’s not true. If you blame them for the miscommunication and direct hostile feelings towards them, they’ll pick up on that. And it’s entirely possible this is all a test on your follow-through skills.

      1. The New Wanderer*

        I like this suggestions, follow up first thing Monday. I think the phrasing is great and doesn’t assign blame at all. You’re just stating that things are unclear and you’re hoping to find out what to do.

        If Monday comes and goes with no response, I’d drop it entirely. If you do interview, keep an eye out for other potential red flags. This might be a one-off (or just this HR person) but if it’s not, you might want to avoid a workplace that functions so loosely.

      2. Alle*

        When she first emailed me Tuesday, I responded right away. In their initial email she mentioned she would send a confirmation email with specifics, as she had for the phone interview, so I thought it would be cleared up when they responded next. However, she never responded, and I waited a bit since I figured it was best not to bug them right away and ended up emailed them a second time early this morning re-confirming my interest. She responded with a specific time, but said she was still confirming it with the local manager and would let me know when she knew for sure. I said that time worked great, and asked for clarification on the phone/in-person thing. However, again she never responded. I probably could have followed up yesterday, but I didn’t want to be too pushy too quickly. I definitely don’t want to communicate annoyance to them, just letting out some stress to my roommate.

        Unfortunately she is in a time zone an hour ahead of mine and likely won’t be in the office that early, and I don’t know the name or phone number of the local manager to contact them directly.

        1. FollowUp*

          So it sounds like she’s trying to wrangle the local manager into arrange whether you’re coming in or talking over the phone, but she has assigned you a time. In that case, it’s still your best bet to follow up on Monday with your original interviewer.

          I would not call the local manager to contact them directly. Let the HR personnel wrangle the local manager.

          Worst case scenario: your appointment time is very early in the morning. You can’t call the HR manager to follow up and confirm because the time you’ll be able to talk to them would be after the interview occurs.

          You can:

          Show up at the local office and speak to the receptionist / manager and say the HR personnel you spoke with said you had an interview today at this time. If it was in an e-mail, you can print that out as evidence. If it was by word of mouth, you can just tell them that.

          They might:

          Be very confused because your interview was not put into their local calendar, so you don’t officially exist on their schedule for that day.

          In which case you can apologize for the confusion, but since you’re here anyway you’d like to introduce yourself. Give a very, very brief snapshot introduction of yourself. Don’t talk about personal things. Just a quick elevator pitch, “I was really looking forward to this interview, because I’ve previously worked or studied this and I’d be an excellent candidate. I’m sorry to hear that I’m not on your schedule for today, but I am very much looking forward to speaking with you further and, of course, I can come back another time at your convenience. I’m sorry for the misunderstanding.”

          And if they’re a jerk about it and the HR personnel continues to drop the ball – then perhaps they’re not the right company for you.

    2. Buu*

      With the ‘it’s your job to cater to them’…well it’s also their job to cater to you. A good interview process is about them trying to convince you, that you want to work there as well as you trying to convince them! I agree with everyone about following up Monday morning.

      Check your spam bin too just in case!

  219. Detached Elemental*

    I have a job interview next week and I’m super nervous. It’s an internal vacancy, and I think the person currently acting in the role will get it. I’m super nervous and having a bad case of imposter syndrome. Does anyone have any words of encouragement?

    1. KeyConfidence*

      You want to walk into that interview feeling as confident as you can, despite what you know about the other candidate. Focus and think about your personal strengths and avoid turning it into a compare/contrast situation. “Here are all of my proven results, this is why I’m a good fit for this position based on my strengths in x, y, z.”

      If you’re feeling super nervous the day of, it always helps to strike a power pose in a private area somewhere for a few minutes. Maybe it’s the bathroom stall. Put your hands on your hips, thrust your chest out, elbows back, and assume a power position. You can also make a Victory “V” with your hands extended way up in the air.

      You also can give yourself permission to visualize a successful scenario in your head. Imagine a scenario where things do go as planned, where you’re having a great conversation, where you spin the topics consistently around to your strengths and successes well enough that you’re offered the position on the spot.

      Leave room in your brain for the positive scenario, too!

  220. contract etiquette questioner*

    Hello, this is my first contract job (through a staffing agency) and I am curious: when and how can you go about asking if you can get hired full time with the client where you’ve been working?

    I ask because I only started a couple of weeks ago and am still in training with the client company. My contract is for a year. However, the client recently posted an ad for a full time role in what I’ve just started doing. If my contract was coming to an end soon, I’d know what to do here, but it’s the opposite of that!

    1. London Calling*

      Well, like so many things in life, that depends. Did the agency say there’s a chance that this will go temp to perm? does the agency and the company you work for know you are interested in a perm role? for a start I’d ring the agency and say what you’ve said here and ask if your job is likely to lead to an offer or is it worth applying for the new permanent role. Just because you are on a year’s contract doesn’t mean that you can’t apply, it just means that if you are successful they’d have to replace you in the temp role (assuming that there are two people doing this job and that the permanent person isn’t to replace you, which doesn’t seem to be the case).

    2. Thlayli*

      Could you ask your contact at the client for their opinion?

      Looking at it from the clients perspective they obviously anticipate having enough work for two people in your role for the next year, and only enough for one person in the long run. Negatives for them of hiring you permanently – They will have to go through the process of hiring you through their official systems, and then they still have to go back and hire someone else through an agency. So by you transferring you are increasing the amount of work they need to do to hire you, plus delaying the time when they will have two people employed in your role.
      Positives of them hiring you permanently – they get to see how good you are at the job beforehand, they don’t have to retrain you, etc.

      If you are extremely good and quick to be trained, the positives will possibly outweigh the negatives. So they would probably be right to consider you.

      The exception is if they really need two people quickly, in which case they can’t really afford to wait for a second person until you’ve transferred and the then they’ve hired someone else.

      So long story short – ask, apply, make sure you are doing your absolute best in training and in the job, but still don’t be disheartened if you don’t get it because they may just need two people in quickly.

  221. matcha123*

    I’m very late to the game. I have a question about asking questions at work.
    Every office I have joined has placed emphasis on asking questions. I totally understand that. However, they expect me to ask questions about things I never would have thought to ask about.
    I have done lots of public speaking/presentations, and I start with the idea that my audience knows almost nothing about my topic (they usually do not) and predict the areas they would have questions about and answer those questions when I present. When I’ve helped new people get acquainted, I do the same. I apologize if they already know something, but go over it and give them suggestions and tips on problems they might encounter and when to ask me or another staff for help.

    But when it comes to me, the older staff will get frustrated that I don’t know how to do things the way they do, or that I do things differently…or that they have a file on topic X written five years ago that I never would have known about because the project I was working on was presented as brand new…and they overhear my supervisor explaining it as something new, allow me to do it, and then in the editing process say, “HEY! We did something like this five years ago! You need to rewrite it to match this!” I find it very frustrating that I’m expected to know what I don’t know.

    1. Buu*

      Sounds like bad training, all I can suggest is when you get a new project you say something to your supervisor like”Just to check are there any reference files I should be checking before I begin this project?”
      or
      ” There have been a few cases where Older Staff have commented they like me to work in certain ways but it’s often not obvious when this is the case. Just to check I intend to do task in X way is that OK?” Then if they push back you can go to the supervisor and ask for clarification in work processes or suggest that some time is set aside for everyone to agree how stuff is done, sort out references and put them in one organised place or intranet/wiki.

      1. matcha123*

        Thanks! That is how I’ve been trying to do things. The office is quite disorganized, which adds to my frustrations. There are many times when I’m handed something, told there’s no similar older files, ask Older Staff, she agrees, I turn in the assignment and then a little later hear, “Oh, ACTUALLY we did something like this 10 years ago. I forgot!” And then I have to redo everything.
        I have ventured to ask about organizing files and was blown off. “They are there, but some of them aren’t and some of the old ones are wrong.” Okayy…so…maybe we should go through an organize them??

        1. Buu*

          Urch sounds like they have their own way of doing things and hate to deviate….even if no one remembers them straight off. Perhaps the suggestion should be setting new guidelines? Each time a new type of project comes up establish how things will be done from now on? If files already exist and are easy to find use those if not make new ones. You need your supervisor onside for this, sounds like they never want to fight the old staff.

          It may just be they like having that edge over you? By never allowing you to learn or set new guideposts they will always know more.

  222. working abroad*

    I’ll try to make this as brief as possible. I tend to get wordy sometimes. The TL;DR is that I’m considering a career change to Gov’t work from an unrelated field and wondering how idealistic/unrealistic I’m being, especially given the current political climate. Is it even possible to get your foot in the door at this point with a BA and MSS?

    Longer version: I’ve worked in film & TV production since getting my BA in film & media arts in 2015. I managed to rise through the ranks pretty quickly (went from a production assistant to getting producer credits on Emmy-award winning shows within 2 years) but I freelance and I’m burnt out on the lifestyle. I get no benefits, no retirement, and no real career stability aside from hoping the industry connections I’ve made like me enough to bring me on their next gig. It’s all been a cool experience for my late-20s, but as I near 30 I want something more stable. I have no savings and I’m starting to feel worried about my future.

    My father works in admin at a university, which allowed me to get my Master’s for free. I had to choose a field I’d normally have no interest in (sports management) but figure the mgmt. skills I’d learn would be beneficial and, hey, free degree! The school is accredited and recognized internationally, but it’s no Wharton or anything, i.e.- it’s not going to turn any heads when people see it on my resume.

    As part of my degree, I’m completing a mentorship abroad, which will be finished this month. My return ticket to the US is in October, but once I have my degree I could technically bounce whenever. I’ve loved living in SE Asia and would love to stay here forever, but I can’t find a job in an affordable place to live that offers a salary where I could create savings. I have family in DC that formerly worked for the Gov’t (they’re now private sector) and a few network connections, and I’m considering moving there when I’m back home. I’d love to get my foot in the door doing some type of foreign service, but from what I’ve read online it’s nearly impossible to get your food in the door. I’ve emailed to set up an appointment with my local consular services rep at the US Embassy here and hopefully I’ll be able to secure a meeting where I can ask them some of the questions I have.

    Anyone from DC in either federal or private sector work that can offer insight? Anyone that works for NGOs? I feel like my positives are that I’m reasonably young (28), don’t want kids/marriage, have a slavish devotion to whatever job it is I’m doing and feel motivated to succeed. However, my degrees are in disjointed fields from fairly unknown universities and there’s a million girls my age or younger wanting to do the same thing. My work history is also all freelance TV and film gigs, which have taught me a variety of useful skills (logistics, management, working under pressure) but present a non-traditional resume. Also, any suggestions on things I could be doing with the plenitude of free time I have here until October?

    1. working abroad*

      Typo, please strike the parentheticals from the record: “I’d love to get my foot in the door doing some type of foreign service, but from what I’ve read online it’s nearly impossible (to get your food in the door.)”

    2. Engineering consultant*

      I’m not sure I’ll be of much help, but here’s a few things to consider:

      1) browse USAjobs. I’m not sure how your work history will be able to fit into the rigid standards of the postings on USAjobs, but it’s worth a try.

      2) look for private-sector jobs listed by federal contractors. I think this will probably be an easier way for you to get your foot in the door, but I’m not sure what types of jobs they’d have. Most of my federal contractor friends are in technology consulting, financial management, or defense work. However, I think you could get your foot in the door with a federal contractor, esp with a BA and MSS.

      3) have you thought about state or municipal jobs? Depending on which state you move to , the political climate may be more favorable to you, and you’ll be able to build up more local connections which can then lead you into DC connections. If you can start working as an aide to a local politician, that might get your foot in more doors.

      for the record, I interned for the federal government way back in the day but now work in the private sector.

    3. DCGirl*

      If you have a degree in sports management, be aware that both the Army and the Marines hire staff and interns with degrees in sports management to work on the Army Ten Miler and the Marine Corps Marathon. which are headquartered in the DC area. Both put those people in the public affairs area, and they work on other outreach activities in the off-season for the races. It might be a way to get a foot in the door with those agencies.

  223. Tristan*

    I’ve just been told that I’ll be moving to a new position with a promotion at work in the next few weeks. It’s not quite official yet (but has been confirmed) so I don’t know exactly when it will be as of yet. I had a really bad handover when I stepped into the role, and I am determined to do a better job. I’m planning on making some amendments to the centralised database I use every day to track my client’s statuses to make it more user-friendly (something I wouldn’t do just for me, but for someone stepping into the role, sure thing). I’m also going to add in a column so I can add in the next steps needed to take for each client. I’m also going to try to progress as much stuff as I can in the next few weeks to make things easier for someone stepping into the role. What else should I prepare for handover? What have you guys found helpful?

  224. AlligatorSky*

    Hey, does anyone have any good podcast recommendations? Wanting to get back into them! Currently I listen to Lore and Someone Knows Something, I would love to find more (of any genre) to listen to!

    2. Kat*

      I’m currently enjoying Sawbones and Missing. Sawbones is a medical doctor and her husband talking about weird horrible medical treatments from history, and Missing is a crime author learning about how people go missing / get tracked down / completely disappear

    4. Dragonista*

      All Killa No Filla – Comedians Rachel Fairborn and Kiri Pritchard-McLean explore a shared interest in serial killers, they are sensitive when discussing victims but there are a lot of laughs.
      Totes recall- Molly, Beth, Dan and Dan discuss a film, but the catch is it’s years since they saw it, they try to remember key plot points then go watch the film together and come back and discuss it. I find this a very funny podcast and quite often it prompts me to rewatch the film they discuss.

  225. Kat*

    How would you start a conversation about dying your hair an unnatural colour at work? I started a job about two months ago and asked about dress code then and it’s fairly casual… We can wear jeans as long as they’re “nice jeans”, sandals and leggings are fine. But today I accidentally stained my blonde hair pink and I kind of want to keep it but I can’t work out how to bring it up to my boss first! Thoughts?

    1. PinkFTW*

      If the unofficial dress code is fairly casual and there isn’t anything official written about it in an employee handbook, you might just keep the stained hair pink for a day and see how it goes. Let them start the conversation and react to you. Perhaps you’ll be told to correct it by the next day, or perhaps not. And as a result of the situation, you might ask that such a thing be clarified in writing for the future as it wasn’t clear to you. It may also depend on the industry you’re in.

      Do you work a point-of-sale position where you’re a face of the company and you interact with the public everyday? Would your boss be okay with you rocking a punk pink and selling that image to your customers? Are you in a fashion house where you’re going to be judged for a poor style choice?

      Or, if you want to just ask about it – just be direct.

      Hi, ____.

      Funny story: I was doing ____ and now my hair is stained pink. I’m open to changing it back to blonde, but I was curious about the dress code for hairstyles as I was thinking about keeping it.

      1. Kat*

        Thank you! That’s helpful. I think I’m overthinking it, partly because I’m new to a very established office and also a lot younger than everyone else and don’t want to come across as the annoying millennial!

        I’m in HE but it’s a medical school associated with a hospital so I am somewhat visible even though my only customers are students / researchers. I think I’ll ask first, dye later

  226. Rick The Dev*

    Just wanna kvetch a little about my job hunt.

    I was contacted last week by a internal recruiter. Their company is a startup, but it sounds very interesting and I wanted to hear more. They missed two scheduled phone calls (“it’s very hectic as we’re in growth mode”). That was annoying, but I still wanted to talk to the company. After the second, the recruiter called me at the exact same time I’d scheduled for a phone interview with a different org. So I said “I can’t talk right now because I’m waiting for another scheduled interview right now, can you email me so we can set up another time.” He acted very confused and insisted we had a scheduled phone call for that time. We didn’t, since I’m meticulous about using Google Calendar.

    The next day I get a “we’ve decided to move on with other candidates” email from him. So now I have a bad impression of that company, whether it’s fair or not. They very well could have made an offer to someone else which then got accepted, but the scenario reads like recruiter couldn’t stick to a schedule, got annoyed when a candidate couldn’t drop everything to talk, and shut them out of the process because of that. I am tempted to say something to the recruiter or anyone at the company, but that would just blow up in my face (I have a strong resume but I’m not a big name in my community — it’s not like they screwed up a chance to get the guy who made Python to work for them), so I won’t.

  227. Courageous cat*

    Ahh, I’m so late.

    Anyway, I’m considering going into a master’s in school counseling, even though I have no background in teaching or anything (but am currently taking psychology classes to boost my GPA and have a BS in Sociology).

    Anyone want to share their experiences with school/being a counselor? I don’t know anyone who is one so I’d love just to hear more info on what it’s like day-to-day on the job, what school was like, things to expect, etc

  228. colormenew*

    I need some advice. I interviewed over 3 weeks ago with the hiring manager. Last week, I received an email from the hr specialist asking for my references. It’s been over a week since I provided them to her, she has not contacted any of my references. How long do I wait to send a follow up email to the hiring manager?
    Inquiring minds would like to know.

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