manager thanked my husband for letting me work with them, how much exaggeration is too much on LinkedIn, and more

by Alison Green on July 19, 2024

It’s four answers to four questions. Here we go…

1. A manager thanked my husband for letting me work with them

A department I work with organized a social dinner at a restaurant after work one evening. People brought their families and so I brought my husband. A manager I work with came by, so I introduced them to each other. It was a very usual interaction, until the very end when the manager said to my husband, “Thank you for letting her work with us” and returned to the far side of the table. It happened so quickly and then he walked away that neither of us had a chance to say anything to correct him. People sitting near us who heard it asked me, “Wait, did he say…?” It was so awkward.

What would you do in this situation? Ideally I would have said something in the moment, like “Oh, my husband has no say in my work activities” but the opportunity’s already gone. I don’t want to approach this manager now and bring this up and say “Hey, this was disrespectful, don’t say things like that again.” There’s a chance that conversation may go well but I think it’s more likely he would just say, “That’s not what I meant/said, you must have heard me wrong” and kind of invalidate me and make me feel silly for coming to him about it. But if I don’t, I’m just enabling things like that to continue happening. But also why is this now my burden to correct?

What do you know of this manager in general? Does that kind of comment fit in with things you already knew/suspected about him? If not, I think it’s reasonably likely he meant something more like “thanks for loaning her to us, she’s great”? Obviously your husband is not loaning you to your company either, but that’s the sort of thing people sometimes say to spouses of either gender when they’re trying to compliment the other partner. Still a little awkward, but very different from a sexist “thank you for permitting your wife to work outside the home.”

But if you do have reason to think he meant it exactly the way you heard it … well, then this one comment is probably the least of the problems. You said you don’t want to address it, and it’s fine to just roll your eyes and not raise it. But it would also be fine to say to him, “Roy, did you thank my husband the other night for letting me work?”

2. My boss threatened to kill himself over a minor work issue

I’ve worked for my company for a few years. I’ve seen many changes, and many layoffs, in my time here. My old boss was transferred to a different subsidiary earlier this year and I got a new boss. My new boss is fine, if high-strung, a bit neurotic, and way too all over the place.

Recently, we made a post on social media and a small error was made, nothing huge and one that was fixed that day, but it caught the attention of the president of the company after a complaint. Due to this, the president decided to put another leader in charge of social media temporarily. This led my boss to call me freaking out, blaming me for what happened, and telling me that if he lost this job, his wife would leave him and he would kill himself.

This was very unprofessional, in my opinion, and a complete overreaction, as we met with the president later that day and it was not as big of a deal as it seemed. I have not spoken to my boss since, as he pushed back our weekly meeting to another day, but I believe he knows he went too far. What do I do in this situation? I am very upset with his reaction and the fact that he keeps blaming me for a simple mistake that was not life or death. I also don’t like that he called me on my personal number and threatened suicide, it was very disturbing. I was already thinking about looking for a new job, but in the meantime how do I handle this?

The safest thing to do when someone makes a suicide threat is to take it seriously. If it turns out it was serious, you won’t regret doing that — and if it wasn’t serious, then responding as if it was can show the person how out of line they were and discourage them from making fake threats again.

Your boss threatening self-harm is way above your pay grade, so this is something to escalate. Ideally you’d talk to HR — or to your boss’s boss if your HR is incompetent or nonexistent — and explain what happened. Say you don’t feel equipped to handle a suicide threat from your boss, and ask that they take over from here. If you feel awkward doing this, consider: if your boss does need help, someone in a position to provide that help needs to be alerted. And if the threat wasn’t real, then it was an incredibly manipulative thing to say and it should be addressed as such by someone who isn’t you.

3. How much exaggeration is too much on LinkedIn?

I have a coworker who has been making some updates to their LinkedIn profile that got me thinking about how much exaggeration is too much when it comes to describing your work. I do think there is an ethical line here, but my coworker has found some interesting ways to make them sound more experienced in certain areas without lying outright. Here are a few examples:

• “With over 20 years of experience in education and editing” (I believe the education part is true, but they have been editing for less than two years and are struggling to reach a professional level of competency.)
• They are “looking for opportunities to further develop their expertise in project management, management, and training” (They are technically doing some project management now, but they are struggling, and to my knowledge they’ve had no experience with management or training. I don’t think this would strike me as questionable if a different word than “expertise” was used, like “interest.”)
• “Manager and leader at heart” (I think this one is the most interesting because they do not have management experience and are not a leader on our team, but the phrasing doesn’t necessarily imply that they are, just that they feel they could be).

This really has no direct effect on me, and I have no plans to bring it up with my coworker; I just thought it was an interesting thought exercise, and I’m curious to hear your opinion.

Nothing here is technically a lie, but they’re definitely puffing things up.

That said … a lot of people do this on resumes and LinkedIn (which is why good hiring managers look at actual experience and accomplishments more than anything else). I don’t like and wouldn’t write it that way myself, and in my experience the people who do this are never the strongest candidates anyway. Plus, it can backfire! If having tons of editing experience is important to an employer, they’re likely to be annoyed if they interview this person and discover the “20 years” is actually two. But “manager and leader at heart” is the worst part of it of to me — a little cheesy, but also if I saw that on a resume from someone with no management experience, I’d be digging into that pretty hard to find out what it meant. People who aren’t managers but feel managerial at heart are often problems or have an unrealistic idea of what management is.

But none is it is wildly outside the realm of how some people market themselves.

4. Applying at my old company with a new name

I worked at my first job out of college for five years, then moved on to a different job for the following 10. I’m now hoping to return to the first company; however, any record of me there is under a different name. The change is not me going by a nickname, my middle name, or new surname. I’ve legally changed my first name. Instead of “Dana Katherine Scully,” I’m now “Gillian Katherine Scully.”

There’s no trauma associated with my former name so I don’t mind it being referenced, I’d just like to know how best to include it on my application so that my first company can verify my past experience there under “Dana” without too much confusion.

I considered omitting that first position from my resume altogether, but this company has a strong culture of hiring from within, so I feel like my prior position is worth noting. I left on great terms after a contract ended with no openings available at the time.

Yeah, definitely don’t omit the job from your resume; that would be odd to do just because of the name issue! The fact that you worked there previously is highly relevant (and they’re also the only other employer you have aside from your current one). You could include a note in your cover letter, but cover letters often aren’t read after the initial screen so that’s not a reliable way to do it. The easiest thing would be to explain in your interview — but if you want them to know before you’re at the interview stage, I’d just include a small note on your resume next to that job like this:

Teapot Factory, 2010-2014 (employed as Dana Scully)

You wouldn’t do that for resumes you’re sending anywhere else, only for this one.

But also, do you know anyone who still works there? If so, you should be contacting them anyway about your application, and can just explain it to them.

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{ 369 comments… read them below }

  2. Nodramalama*

    Oh my God LW2 escalate this immediately! AT BEST your boss is manipulative and awful, in which case HR needs to step in and tell him that is creating a hostile work environment, and at worst the threat is real and you shouldn’t be obliged to assist him!

    LW3 eh yeah, people puff up their experience on linkedin all the time. A “manager and leader at heart” sounds like the same nonsense as when people say they’re a “natural born leader,

    1. Artemesia*

      My second boss did kill himself. This is absolutely above your pay grade. It didn’t sound like a joke ‘oh I’ll just kill myself if I don’t get this job’. or whatever. It sounds like a hysterical spiral where he was expressing genuine anguish. Talk to either HR or his boss. And your stance is ‘concern’ not any sense of ‘reporting him for manipulative behavior.’ You want to be sure to position yourself here.

      1. Hroethvitnir*

        Oof, I’m sorry to hear that. This LW’s boss is so far past the line you can’t see it any more.

      2. Sara*

        I agree. It would be one thing if this person clearly meant it as a joke, but it was in bad taste. For example, finger gun to the head, “ugh, I want to kill myself over this situation!” With a laugh, etc. I don’t think that’s correct for the workplace, but it falls more under bad judgement. This sounds like a much more serious statement that should be escalated.

      3. Goldenrod*

        Artemesia – I’m interested to hear more about the details of this, if you feel like sharing. For example, how did you handle this? How did the company handle it? (If you do not want to share, totally understand!)

    2. Six for the truth over solace in lies*

      Speaking as a natural born follower, people who claim to be natural leaders are a trial. Not because natural leaders are a bad thing, but because if you have to brand yourself that way and your experience doesn’t speak for itself, you are probably really annoying to deal with.

      2. Clisby*

        In the immortal words of GOT’s Tywin Lannister: “Any man who must say ‘I am the king’ is no true king.”

        1. holdonloosely*

          The real-life internet version of this is people who put “sarcastic” in their bios. Oh, wow, if you have to tell everyone, you must be really good at sarcasm.

          1. Kaitlyn*

            This has turned into an automatic no for me in places like dating sites – I’m of the temperament that I don’t want to be roasted all day long, and sarcastic humour is often pretty bleak. Someone out there likes it, but it’s not me.

            1. Bee*

              I DO enjoy a little sarcasm and it’s still a red flag on dating sites – is that really the most interesting thing you can think to say about yourself??

            2. Llama Llama Workplace Drama*

              oh a side note… if any women/non binary people are interested in learning about the rhetoric of dating profiles check out Burned Haystack Dating on Facebook. It has really opened my eyes to what people are really saying by their choice of words

        2. mymotherwasahamster*

          The guy I dated who told me he was a “deep thinker”? Guess what he was not.

      3. Pastor Petty Labelle*

        The answer has it best – those who need to do this are often not the best candidate.

        If you have the actual experience, no need to puff or manipulate. It comes through in your accomplishments. Even Natural Born Leaders have to show they can lead at some point.

          1. nodramalama*

            It ALWAYS takes me back to law school. “It was not an intent to enter into a contract, but mere puffery!”

            1. mymotherwasahamster*

              It always put me in mind of a very ostentatious, slightly poofy puffin. With, like, a monocle, Sherlock Holmes cap, and a down vest.

              (1L me may have given this too much thought.)

            4. Anonymous For Now*

              It makes me thing of Charles Laughton in “Witness for the Prosecution” (1957), one of the best, most clever movies with an incredible cast (Tyrone Power, Marlene Dietrich, Laughton, Elsa Lanchester, et al.)

          2. goddessoftransitory*

            I think of Snoopy blowing the single leaf over to Charlie Brown’s leaf pile in It’s The Great Pumpkin.

        2. Blue Horizon*

          People also might not realize how easy it is for those of us who review resumes to spot this kind of thing. The careful language, stopping just short of a firm claim. The focus on aspiration and potential, rather than actual accomplishment. A manager and a leader ‘at heart.’ Right. It’s one of those.

          The very next thing I would do on seeing these would be look down the list of roles and actual experience and see if they match up. Sometimes they do, and people just write this way out of habit or bad advice or whatever. More often than not, though, their work history will paint a very different picture.

          I think it’s usually counterproductive – while I can look past it for an otherwise good candidate, I’m generally looking for honesty and authenticity, and it definitely harms candidates on those points.

      4. MigraineMonth*

        Have you heard about the “courageous follower” concept? Basically, a potential leader is just a lone weirdo until someone else decides their ideas are great and starts following them. Whether the political movement/business/religion/spontaneous dance party succeeds depends as much on those early followers as it does on the leader.

    3. Someone stole my croissant*

      Yep, definitely report it. If he’s serious, he needs emotional support, and if he’s not, let him explain to the suicide hotline why he said such a thing as that. I never say the phrase “I want to kill myself “ or “I want to die” at work because that can be very triggering to people who have experienced those thoughts or have loved ones who had those thoughts. Remember it is not your responsibility to babysit him, if he pulls this again, report it to a hotline and HR. Report it now too.

      1. Brain the Brian*

        Even if he’s not being serious about the threat to take his life, imagining that he would lose his job — and his wife, eventually — over something as small as one social media post is a vast overreaction and a massive red flag. This man needs to be seeing a licensed mental health professional for serious anxiety and anger issues, and if raising his suicide threat to HR is what gets him there eventually, all the better.

        1. Pastor Petty Labelle*

          OP points out he’s high strung and all over the place, so this is probably not the first over reaction. Employees need someone who will handle mistakes — big or small — calmly so they can be addressed. Over reaction just adds to the stree the employees feel about the situation. Not to mention they have to also now manage the boss’ emotions.

          1. Georgia Carolyn Mason*

            And, frankly, if he’s this difficult and not an absolute rock star performer — or maybe even if he is a star — he may be close to being let go. Having been one of these people myself (no suicide threats, but constant self-criticism, expressed fear of losing my job, and overreactions to tiny errors), I’m lucky I wasn’t booted out just for that despite good numbers. It’s a really hard spiral to pull out of, and if he doesn’t, he may find that losing his job has become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

            1. MigraineMonth*

              It’s counterintuitive, but getting fired from a job I was desperately trying to keep was actually a relief. Often the thing we’re so afraid of isn’t as bad as the dread of it.

      2. ferrina*

        Definitely. This is way above LW’s paygrade, and it needs to be taken seriously. HR can help get the boss the help he needs, but also HR can help take care of LW. The boss just put LW in an extremely awful position. If boss was expressing a serious concern, that’s something that he needs to address without putting it on LW (just as he wouldn’t make LW responsible for any other health condition). If the boss was exaggerating, he needs to know that that kind of exaggeration is not okay in a work setting.

        Also, this boss sounds like a pretty bad manager overall, and HR needs to know the extent of what’s going on.

        1. Observer*

          HR can help get the boss the help he needs

          I’m not sure that they can, although I hope that they can push him in the right direction. But that’s not the LW’s problem.

          Also, this boss sounds like a pretty bad manager overall, and HR needs to know the extent of what’s going on.

          Agreed.

      3. toolegittoresign*

        Once, in a moment of high stress that I’m not proud of, I made a crack like this. I wish someone had reported it. Because my mental health was suffering, and while I wasn’t suicidal, my anxiety and stress were so bad that I was being unprofessional and I needed help. People making statements like that need a wake-up call. In hindsight they will be grateful.

        1. Andie Begins*

          this! I was extremely burnt out a few months ago and had started getting very weird and bitter in venting with my supervisor. she ended up telling me I needed to rein it in and I was mad about it for a day – then when I’d gotten some rest and some food in me I realized I was being wildly I professional and needed to figure out how to put up or start job searching. it was a wake up call, I’m embarrassed it got that far, but I very much needed to hear it.

          1. Has said some things wot shouldn't have been said*

            When burned out and miserable, I did something similar to a coworker, someone I didn’t see regularly, and I don’t know why I chose her to vent to over Teams about someone very high up in our structure. All I could do when I came to my senses was email her to apologize and tell her that I understood these were not appropriate things to say to her and that I didn’t know why I’d said them, but that it wouldn’t happen again. She was graceful about it but avoided most contact with me afterward, and I completely understood.

      4. Explain to hotline*

        A suicide hotline isn’t the police. He doesn’t have to explain anything to them, and they wouldn’t want tyo be involved.

    4. Sherm*

      And LW2, be sure to take good care of yourself, too. A few years ago, a higher-up threatened suicide several times. (She thankfully never followed through.) Shortly thereafter, I developed these very scary chest pains, but extensive medical testing found nothing wrong. I’ve concluded that the stress of the situation led to those pains. Another coworker who heard one of the threats ruminated about what was heard all throughout the following weekend. Threats of violence (including to oneself) can take their toll.

      1. BellaStella*

        Agree with this fully. A colleague I lost touch with after she moved to a new company said this at least twice to me after she left the job and I had no idea who to call so I just told her if she was serious she needed a lot of professional help.

      2. goddessoftransitory*

        This. Extreme emotional reactions don’t exist in a vacuum. They can definitely affect the entire office vibe and peoples’ mental health.

    5. Irish Teacher.*

      Yeah, I would take “manager and leader at heart,” to mean “I’ve never been a manager but would love to be and feel I have leadership qualities.” It sounds a bit silly and cheesy to me, but it wouldn’t strike me as claiming any experience the person doesn’t have. I’d read it as implying “no management experience.”

      1. ferrina*

        Agree with this. “Leader at heart” reads to me as “but not in reality”.
        Natural leaders tend to find themselves in leadership positions. They are the captain of the sports team, the mentor to junior staff, the person tapped to train others or cover for the boss. A good leader knows how to build others up and get buy in. That doesn’t mean that every leader will lead in every environment, but they’ll usually have something to point to.

      2. Petty Betty*

        That’s my take, too. I choose not to take managerial positions in my paying jobs because I HAVE leadership roles in my volunteer positions. I know how stressful and annoying leadership can be. I prefer to get paid to do work I’m good at, not managing others to do their work. Am I good at managing others? I don’t know, I just keep getting thrown into extremely important roles and put in charge of people and told “you’ve got this” and left to make it work. And I do. So they keep doing it. It sounds great in interviews for paying positions, but I don’t want the added responsibilities.

        But, there is a saying: Those who want to lead, shouldn’t.

        1. Goldenrod*

          “But, there is a saying: Those who want to lead, shouldn’t.”

          I’ve never heard this saying, but I 100% agree with it!!!

        2. Polly Hedron*

          Leading volunteers is like herding cats: you have so little power that it’s harder than managing paid employees.
          I think that if you are good at managing volunteers, you would be great at managing employees.

    6. ijustworkhere*

      Agree, with a friendly suggestion on wording “the threat is real and the guy needs help you aren’t qualified to give.”

    7. Fluffy Fish*

      “hostile work environment” comes up a lot but its very misunderstood. it doesn’t mean any work environment that’s uncomfortable.

      it’s a specific legal definition that is a uncomfortable work environment due to illegal discrimination.

      so yes, HR needs to be involved but this wouldn’t be a hostile work environment.

      1. nodramalama*

        ok well we’re not all from the same place, and where I’m from it has a much broader definition.

        1. Fluffy Fish*

          that’s understandable. since this is a US blog with a US heavy commentariate that’s why i commented.

          it wasn’t intended as an attack on you, it was a clarification since it comes up a lot on this blog.

          have a lovely weekend :)

    8. Abogado Avocado*

      Yes, escalate this, but also, LW, when a person threatens suicide, take it seriously and refer them to mental health help, such as your local suicide and crisis hotline and/or your area’s mobile crisis outreach team. I learned to do this because our boss asked us to take mental health first aid (on office time) and, frankly, it was very helpful for situations just like these.

      While I would like to believe we could all get through life without anyone we know confessing suicidal thoughts, it’s become clear to me that this is a part of our lives and, if we care about those around us (even high-strung bosses), we need to know how to deal with mental health crises. And, yes, I know you doubt your boss’ intent, but a cry for help is a cry for help, even if it seems un-serious at the time.

      For those interested in mental health first aid, Google it. Although I’m an attorney and have had years of continuing education about mental illness, mental health first aid was amazing.

  3. OneOfTheseThingsIsNotLikeTheOthers*

    The resume and LinkedIn items are interesting because they aren’t equal. I see nothing wrong with 2 or 3 but 1 would be grounds for firing at most places I’ve worked (on a resume at least).

    1. The Bunny*

      I see LI as pure social media and marketing.

      It’s the resume where I want to see the truth. I’ve been on plenty of hiring teams. People might be sourced on LI but they are still asked for a copy of their resume.

      1. Allonge*

        Yeah, LI is for whatever the account owner wants it to be. I find a lot of it weird, but that is normal (people will find my bland profile weird too).

        If I saw ‘leader at heart’ on an application / resume, well. Not a great sign. Give specific examples of leadership please. It does not mean you need to have been a manager – pleanty of people show leadership without that.

        1. MassMatt*

          It’s interesting that Alison said she’d dig a lot to find out more about what leadership experience that person had. I would toss it without a second glance unless there were something really compelling elsewhere in the application/resume/whatever.

          1. Allonge*

            I don’t think that she meant that she would spend a lot of time to try to find any evidence of leadership.

            More that she would need to have a lot more information before she takes it as fact (e.g. if the person makes it to an interview otherwise as they are great at something necessary, she would have a lot of questions on this aspect).

      2. Mockingjay*

        Thank you! I was going to link several comments of mine from the last few weeks saying the same thing: LinkedIn is social media, meaning not “official,” and posts are not vetted. Great starting point to look for jobs and staff, but do your own thorough examination of job descriptions and applicant experience claims.

      3. OneOfTheseThingsIsNotLikeTheOthers*

        The last 3-4 job searches I’ve done a good portion of my job applications – probably a bit more than half – were through LinkedIn and my LinkedIn profile was my resume. I don’t see this distinction existing in any real way in the real world.

        1. OneOfTheseThingsIsNotLikeTheOthers*

          but that’s also why I made that distinction – if this candidate isn’t using LinkedIn to directly apply for jobs then it’s strictly social media and they have more leeway to say what they want (it may still irritate folks but it’s not official). If they’re applying for jobs through LinkedIn it’s officially getting submitted to companies as a resume.

        2. MigraineMonth*

          Interesting! I don’t think that’s done much in my field. Did you get good responses to the LinkedIn applications?

          1. OneOfTheseThingsIsNotLikeTheOthers*

            Oh yes, it’s among the most effective options, and has been for at least 10-15 years. And it was our main source of good candidates last time my current company hired.

        3. Nodramalama*

          Well that’s Industry specific. I don’t know anyone in my field who has gotten a job through linked in

    2. Nodramalama*

      I mean I personally don’t really take what people put on linkedin seriously. My linked in doesn’t even have my current job on it. I’d expect a resume to be accurate and up to date

      1. Brain the Brian*

        Yeah, I don’t put much stock in LinkedIn at all, but a resume has to be accurate even if your LinkedIn is wrong.

      2. Sasha*

        I wouldn’t mind if LI wasn’t up to date. I would mind if it was full of outright lies. This is skating close to the edge I feel.

      3. OneOfTheseThingsIsNotLikeTheOthers*

        The issue is that these days a lot of job applications are handled through LinkedIn and your profile is your resume for most of these.

      4. Lisa*

        If someone is actively job-hunting, I’d expect their LI profile to be current. Otherwise, not necessarily.

    3. bamcheeks*

      If it just said “20 years experience in editing”, it would be a clear lie. “20 years in education and editing” means the 20 years catches your attention and then the second you look at the rest of the experience to verify it you realise they’re including kindergarten.

      I wouldn’t see it as an attempt to deceive, because nobody just goes by headlines, but I would see it as completely clueless about how hiring works and how people assess job histories, which is NOT a good look.

      1. El l*

        Are education and editing typically grouped together? If you’re in editing…

        Strikes me as an eye catchingly bad grouping.

        1. MsM*

          It might make sense if the person were looking for education marketing or publishing roles. But it kinda sounds like she’s just trying to highlight everything she thinks might land her a job, which isn’t a great strategy, either.

        2. ecnaseener*

          I can see it as, “I have 20 years work experience, some of which is education and some of which is editing.” It’s not that they’re a natural grouping, just that those are the two fields this person has worked in.

        3. perfect beasts*

          I work in higher education in the editorial department, so if she was applying to us it might take us an extra thirty seconds to go ‘wait, twenty years for both orrr…?’ But yeah, otherwise it makes no sense.

        4. fhqwhgads*

          Yeah I think worst case scenario someone reads it as 20 applying to both. More likely scenario is it’s a semi-obvious fudge that suggest the person may mean “20 total, some of which was education, some of which was editing” and then the reader’s going to want to ask, and then they’ll get the real info and can decide based on that. The “and” there makes the statement vague, rather than malicious, which to me is not a good thing to be either. But basically, at worst someone thinks the candidate is a liar and at best they’re likely to think “I see you vagueing this up and hoping no one notices”.

        5. Also-ADHD*

          It would make sense if they were looking for say an educational content writing role?

      2. Peanut Hamper*

        I actually viewed “20 years in education and editing” as an example of really bad editing because those things are typically connected in any meaningful way, so why would you put them in the same sentence? It definitely looks like some sort of obfuscation to me.

        It’s like if I were hiring for a pastry chef and a lumberjack looking to get out of the woods who once baked an apple pie wrote that they had “20 years of lumberjack and pastry experience”. It makes no sense.

        2. MigraineMonth*

          Yeah, that’s the one that seemed most outright deceptive to me. I think the most natural interpretation is that you have 20 years experience in lumberjacking *and* 20 years experience in pastry-making, probably simultaneous.

      3. smirkette*

        I understand the thought process behind the grouping, but…it’s also a demonstration of ambiguous writing, which might not be the best look for an editing gig.

        1. Lisa*

          That was my thought too! If I struggle to decipher your meaning I’m not sure you’re demonstrating great writing/editing skills.

    4. Sloanicota*

      I always think critiques like this are interesting. I guess there’s a certain type of factually-oriented person who thinks you should post “I am struggling in my role and likely to be fired soon” on LinkedIn. I mean, what do you want people to say? This coworker is trying to make the best of a bad situation. It’s not likely to work out well for them, and they probably know that, but they’re trying to put it in the best possible light – but you want to edit that? People who lose their livelihoods are seriously screwed in our society, so I forgive this kind of “spin” when I can.

      1. llamasandteapots*

        LW3 here! I’m glad folks are finding this thought exercise as interesting as I have. LinkedIn is so weird for me precisely because it is social media, where we all know not everything is true and people fluff things up and exaggerate, but it’s also become deeply connected to applications for a lot of companies/job searchers. If I saw it on facebook or instagram I might have thought about it momentarily and moved on, but it being on LinkedIn really made me pause and think about it more. Again, I don’t plan to talk to my colleague or “expose” them in any way; it’s really none of my business how they choose to present themselves online. I just think it’s so interesting to see how folks think about all the LI spins/exaggerations.

        1. Goldenrod*

          I agree. A former boss of mine quit our workplace and was unemployed for a while. I looked her up on LinkedIn a bit later, and noticed that she’d fudged her end date by quite a few months.

          Nothing I would report – and I don’t wish her ill – but it struck me as unethical…

          1. Lapsed Historian*

            It’s very normal for people to not update their LinkedIn to reflect the end of a job because being employed looks better to recruiters and the algorithm. I didn’t change my employment date to reflect my layoff two years ago for several months. I was upfront about the layoff in interviews and had the accurate dates on my actual resume, but a LinkedIn isn’t a blood oath. Now, my ex-colleague who was fired for cause three years ago who still lists himself as being employed at our old company? Yeah, when it gets to be a year or more I think it’s crossing a line. But again, it’s social media, not a blood oath.

        2. Black Targaryen*

          LW3 – how do you know for certain that she does not have leadership or management experience? I’m perplexed by this assertion but haven’t seen anyone else ask it. 20 years in education – she probably does. It sounds like you only work with her in her current editing career of 2 years.

      2. Observer*

        <i.I guess there’s a certain type of factually-oriented person who thinks you should post “I am struggling in my role and likely to be fired soon” on LinkedIn

        Exaggerating is not going to make your point any stronger. In fact, in case like this, you are actually demolishing your argument.

        It’s one thing to “spin” stuff, it’s another to be stupid, assume your intended audience is stupid and to make bad attempts to actually mislead people. Especially since this person actually does still have a job.

    5. CommanderBanana*

      Also, you can report LinkedIn accounts for inaccurate information (not inaccurate as, listing themselves as a “leader at heart” when you disagree with their assessment of their skills, but inaccurate as in, they are listing themselves as employed at a place where they are not or never were). In my experience, having had to report a profile falsely listing current employment, LinkedIn responded immediately and the profile was updated within 3 days.

      1. Georgia Carolyn Mason*

        Literally just re-watching this, and bonus points to the LW for correctly remembering Scully’s middle name. (I wouldn’t have, but just saw an episode where she had to say her full name.)

  5. Aeries*

    LW2: Raise the flag. It will help your boss chill out or get help. At my old job we had a field manager who would sometimes say something similar. Everyone rolled with it as “yeah, he’s just venting, that’s how he is”. Then one early morning he sent goodbye emails to his team, coworkers, and leadership of the company….the next day and weeks ahead were awful. Crisis control on all levels. People took time off, others quit. His emails were removed from the servers so nobody could save it or share it. It was a really sad time. All to say: speak up.

    1. Hroethvitnir*

      Good god. How disturbing to have two people out of the first handful have comments have direct experience with this! I’m sorry you all had to deal with that

    2. Nina*

      I started at my last job about a year after a (apparently) beloved manager had committed suicide. He had lived alone, and a couple of the people I worked with had found him at his home when they went over on a welfare check as he hadn’t come to work in a few days. It was still really raw for everyone who had worked with him, and traumatic for those particular coworkers. The company took any comments about self-harm incredibly seriously after that.

  6. Cmdrshprd*

    LW1 I think what Alison said is spot on.

    I had my boss (female) say almost the same exact thing, if not the exactly the same to my spouse (female), at an a work event, note I (male).

    “thank you for letting him work for/with us.” or “thank you for letting him work lots of hours for us.”

    I think people say it more as an acknowledgement/expression of how much time some people spend at work and as a bit of pleasantries and don’t mean it in a literal thanks for permission.

    Not saying this person isn’t sexist, he could be and meant it in a sexist way, or meant it the way I said about and is also sexist.

    1. Myrin*

      Yeah, I have heard almost the exact same thing said to the mother of a male friend, so that’s how I would’ve understood it in this context as well.
      However, just like Alison said, this really depends on what this manager is like overall and, to an extent, also how exactly he said this, which only OP and her husband can determine.

    2. Melicious*

      That’s how I’d have read it too unless you already know this manager to be overtly sexist. I had a female superior say this to me (also female) about my husband. We all meant/understood it to mean “your husband is awesome, I appreciate that he spends a lot of time away from home to do awesome work for me.”

      1. ferrina*

        My male partner’s female boss said something similar to me (female).
        She meant it as “he’s been putting in a lot of overtime; we recognize that means that he doesn’t have as much time for a home life and that takes a toll on you.”
        Unfortunately, a couple people heard it as “Work is very important and Partner is critical to the work, and we appreciate you doing your Wifely Duty in the home to ensure that Partner can work his Very Important Job.” (his job wasn’t actually that important, he was admin support to people who were essentially paper pushers)

        It’s one of those things where the implication is open to interpretation based on the individual values of the listeners. (see also: “you look so pretty when you dress up”). Even if the intended recipient hears it one way, bystanders can hear it a different way. And I agree with the advice to take it in the context of what else you know about the speaker.
        But yeah, I stay away from saying phrases like this. (that’s without it opening a potential can of worms- I’ve seen several times where a partner was frustrated with their SO’s overtime, but the SO was revered at work for their “work ethic” and the colleagues thought the partner was on board with all the work. They didn’t realize that it was a constant source of tension in the relationship)

    3. Brain the Brian*

      I — also male — would interpret it the same way you did if someone said it to me and a potential partner (single though I always am — lol). But the fact that the LW wrote in to AAM feeling uncomfortable about the remark should give us a clue about how she feels about this manager’s overall behavior and attitude.

      1. Pocket Mouse*

        Eh, the wording is just jarring—on its face, the spouse is being thanked for something they did. I would absolutely see it as a choice, or at least an closer expression of what the manager thinks, to hear that phrasing instead of something like “We really appreciate all that Pocket Mouse does for this company.” If I wasn’t uncomfortable with the manager who said it before they said it, I would become uncomfortable with them (or at least have flags raised) because of it.

        1. hohumdrum*

          I dunno man, I say stuff like that because I’m socially awkward and I get nervous and just blurt out attempts at pleasantries to try to cover my own panic and awkwardness. In fact, I have absolutely said that exact phrase to the spouse of a colleague at a work function where I realized I had absolutely no idea what to say to the spouse and needed to say *something* pleasant to fill the conversational space.

          Personally I will not choose to spend time with people who insist on “reading between the lines” for negative intentions, or who read too much into anything I say, because I’ve come to accept I’m not an eloquent person. I assume as long as I tried my best to say genuine & kind things most decent people will accept them at face value without thinking less of me.

          LW definitely should just take this within the context of her boss, if he’s usually an asshole or if he’s just kinda awkward and doesn’t always have the right words to say.

      2. Elle*

        She wrote in feeling uncomfortable, but clearly unsure of how to assess the situation. Feelings aren’t facts. It sounds like OP is aware she could have read it in a way that was divergent from the intention.

        1. Ray B Purchase*

          I read OP’s position a little differently. I think she believes he meant to be sexist but where she’s uncertain is whether it’s important/useful to bring it up with the boss a day or longer after the event and how she should bring it up if so.

    4. Play This*

      I have on multiple occasions written “thank you for sharing [name] with us” on sympathy cards after a colleague’s death. I genuinely didn’t mean it as anything other than expression of condolences and acknowledgment of how much time people spend at work, but this letter makes me worry that I inadvertently offended someone and made a bad situation worse.

      1. metadata minion*

        I would be baffled and bothered to hear a statement like this in LW1’s context, but it doesn’t bother me at all in the context of a condolence card. I think it’s because that’s a situation where I expect more ritualized expressions and it’s normal for you to be primarily addressing the surviving spouse/family.

      2. Mme Pince*

        Play This, that strikes me as exactly how you meant it – a genuine expression of appreciation for the time the deceased spent working with you.

      3. ecnaseener*

        I think you’re fine. “Sharing” is a very different thing (especially in context) than “letting.”

        1. I Have RBF*

          IMO, this is key.

          “Sharing” means including us in your lives. “Letting” means so controlling that you graciously “allowed” your spouse to work outside the home.

    5. mreasy*

      My boss has in fact said this to my cat (on Instagram). But it could definitely be meant the other way too!

          1. Writer Claire*

            My cat knows I’m retired, so I have no excuses to leave the house. (Retired from the dayjob, that is. I’m still writing novels, so I time my writing sessions for his naps.)

      2. Sloanicota*

        My cat is now furious that she’s never been thanked for the contributions she allows me to make. Furious.

        1. ferrina*

          Oh no! Deploy emergency scritches and groveling!

          I work from home, so my cats preemptively charge a scritches tax before they let me do work. It’s very kind of them to make sure that I am properly appreciating their contributions (also it’s really annoying when they flop on the keyboard. they are unfortunately good at it).

        2. House On The Rock*

          I’m not letting my fuzzy babies see this comment, lest they began writing Very Stern Emails to my director asking why they are not thanked for allowing me to take time away from giving them treats and ear scratches to do my job.

          1. Jackalope*

            I got around this by referring to my cats as interns. That way they know that their hard work of sleeping on my keyboard and sending nonsense messages to my coworkers is an essential part of my work and they’re more okay with my life choices.

        3. goddessoftransitory*

          Peanut cat is glaring across the room. “Where is MY thanks, meatbag?”

        4. NotAnotherManager!*

          We have always explained to ours that these inconvenient interruptions to the chin scritches, belly rubs, and afternoon naps is how we keep them in cat trees, beds, scratchers, and food. (They are less jazzed about the veterinary care.) Until they grow opposable thumbs and/or get a job, it is what it is.

    6. MicroManagered*

      This was my take as well. This is just a thing you say to someone’s spouse at a work function when you can’t think of anything to say. I’ve said it to spouses/partners of all genders about employees of all genders. It’s not literal.

      1. Database Developer Dude*

        I’m in the Army Reserve. I was active duty Army. The military even gives spouses certificates of appreciation for the support they provide the military member in order to enable them to serve. Take that in the spirit in which it was offered.

        1. Boof*

          True, though military usually involves a lot more life upheaval / moving around than most office jobs

      2. mreasy*

        The phrasing is off though – usually I hear it “thanks for loaning [spouse] to us” or something to make it much clearer that it’s a joke (you don’t “loan” a person) – with the way the comment to OP’s husband was phrased it feels like depending on the boss, it could go either way.

        1. Butterfly Counter*

          I feel like I would be in the boss’s shoes in that I meant to say, “Thanks for loaning your spouse to us!” and then the awkward gene activates and I decide to get creative at the last second and garble out, “Thanks for letting your spouse work here.” Then I would internally be mortified within an inch of my life and quickly leave the scene.

          So, yes, maybe sexist? But also maybe just one of us awkward individuals?

        2. MicroManagered*

          Nah. People may phrase it slightly different ways sometimes, but it’s such an extremely common nothingburger comment to say at a work function like that. I can’t think of how many times I’ve heard, said, or been told some version of this. I think reading into it THIS much (both the OP & the comment I’m replying to) starts to sound like looking for a reason to get offended.

      3. Adultier adult*

        Agreed- both my husband and I have been told this by each other’s bosses recently- It’s a bit of a brag on the spouse & an acknowledgement of our “contribution” as well

        1. MicroManagered*

          Exactly. One time my boss thanked MY CAT for letting me work late… it’s not literal folks!

    7. doreen*

      I’ve heard it plenty – about men, about women , about work , about volunteer activities. It’s always been clear to me that what they meant is something more like ” We know this job/ volunteer position affects the life of the whole family, so thank you for letting them work here rather than insisting they find a position with less impact on family life”. Which is not quite the same as thanking someone for allowing their partner to work at all.

    8. DrSalty*

      Agree, I think this is a normal thing to say unless you know something else about this guy that makes you think otherwise.

    9. Turquoisecow*

      Yeah I’ve gotten kind of similar comments from Husband’s coworkers, kind of like “I’m sure he’s missed out on spending time with you because of work stuff, thanks for being understanding,” but awkwardly worded. And at the time he was working insane hours so it was kind of like “well yeah, because you keep having ‘emergencies’ in the evenings that either someone else should be handling or could probably wait until morning,” and did not have effect they intended. But I didn’t interpret it as me having ownership of his time or anything like that.

    10. hb*

      When I read this one I kinda imagined this coming out of my (feminist) mouth accidentally as I was trying to express something like “We are so lucky to have X, thanks for sharing them with us haha” and then walking away and being like omg did I actually say “thank you for LETTING them work???” and not knowing how to backtrack.

      Of course if this person has a history of being sexist that changes the equation.

    11. kiki*

      Yeah, when I’ve heard this before it was intended as more of a, “hey, I know this job means your spouse is working some late nights and weekends and we want to make sure you know that we appreciate sacrifices you and your family have made that allow your spouse to keep working this job.”

      1. loggerhead*

        Yep. This is said at my company sometimes. We do great work that we think is important and we are well treated and well paid. But there are still familial costs in terms of very busy weeks and travel sometimes. We work hard to make it possible for each other to be present for our families. It makes sense to recognize that our families are putting in work to make our careers possible, too.

    12. learnedthehardway*

      The message landed badly, but it’s quite likely that the implication is – we value your spouse and know that it’s hard for you that they’re at work so many hours.

      Of course, this really points to another problem of workload – ie. that management KNOWS workload is excessive and aren’t planning to do anything about it.

    13. House On The Rock*

      I (female) have had both male and female managers thank my spouse (male) for “sharing” me with them.

      It can feel a bit more odd when it’s a man thanking him, but I’ve always assumed good intentions and overlooked the awkwardness. My spouse usually says something along the lines of “it’s not up to me, but I agree she’s great!”.

      That being said, if I got overall sexist or patronizing vibes from someone, I might take it differently! Long ago I had one Director who had some very problematic views but, luckily, he never interacted with my spouse!

    14. Sharkie*

      Yeah the “letting” language is tripping me up. Any other word in the meaning would be clear.

    15. Rooby*

      Yeah this pretty clearly seems like a fumbling of a standard form of rote compliment-by-proxy. Everyone trips over standard phrasings in the moment sometimes.

  7. DeskApple*

    One person making that threat and it not being taken seriously means that others in that environment who feel truly awful won’t be believed. Get him help asap.

  8. FlatlandNomad*

    Removed because this is off-topic. You’re welcome to post it on the Friday open thread that goes up at 11 am ET. – Alison

  9. Thepuppiesareok*

    OP report this. A family member (FM) made a remark at work a few years ago that their boss took as suicidal. Not in any way related to work, just a comment he made while talking to himself. She reported it. Per company policy an ambulance was called. FM was taken to the hospital to be evaluated. The psychiatrist released him after a few hours.

    Why? He realized the remark was something that people with suicidal ideation sometimes make. However FM wasn’t actively suicidal. FM was under the care of his own psychiatrist who had-ironically enough – recommended saying these thoughts and writing them down instead of just having them repeat over and over in his head. FM would have been saying the same thing wherever he was is the point.

    Even though it was ultimately unnecessary and took several hours to resolve, FM was still grateful he worked for a company who cared enough to have a policy in place for this situation and that they followed it.

    1. LateRiser*

      An overt threat like LW experienced should absolutely be reported, but that level of response to just a questionable remark feels very different.

      I’ve accidentally made a comment that a manager took as a desire not to live (the exchange was along the lines of “life moves forward”, “sometimes I wish it wouldn’t”) – that kind of medical response would have been terrifying, if not traumatising.

      At the time said manager looked a bit shocked and clarified that I didn’t mean “permanently” – I just want Bernard’s Watch! – and it became just another embarassing moment for me to cringe over.

    2. Willow*

      This is utterly terrifying to me. I have significant trauma from being hospitalized and would never be able to trust someone again who had me sent to the hospital over an offhand remark.

      1. misspiggy*

        But you probably wouldn’t make the kind of remark that’s commonly with suicidal ideation out loud, I’d guess.

        1. LateRiser*

          Assuming it’s common knowledge what such a remark would be, which is absolutely not a given.

          1. Roeslein*

            I understand you may not want to share the specific comment outright but it would be helpful to get some pointers for those of us who want to educate ourselves. I did my mental health first aider certificate but I have no idea what kinds of remark this thread is referring to?

              1. doreen*

                I don’t think the remark that LateRiser mentioned would commonly be associated with suicidal ideation. Maybe for someone with a history of suicidal thoughts- but I frequently hear comments to the effect of wishing time wouldn’t move forward. It’s 95% parents seeing their kids grow up and wishing it wasn’t so fast and 5% wishing other some stage of life wasn’t ending.

                1. doreen*

                  If LateRiser’s boss had sent them to the hospital it would absolutely have been an overreaction. But that doesn’t mean that someone somewhere won’t which is why people shouldn’t always act on something that’s not overt.

        2. kanada*

          What a strange assumption to make. Is the implication that, if they did, they should be involuntarily committed, despite the fact that this person just said they found the experience deeply traumatic?

        3. Massive Dynamic*

          Unfortunately yes, this sort of remark should be treated very seriously. Like, saying Bomb in an airport seriously.

          I did lose a beloved coworker to suicide. We all very much wish we had the chance to react to an offhand remark like that ahead of time, but there was nothing to go on.

      2. bamcheeks*

        This doesn’t sound like an offhand remark— this sounds like FM was verbalising intrusive thoughts. That can be legitimately terrifying and disturbing for people who overhear it and I am really surprised the therapist didn’t give them some more guidance about the time and place to do it!

        1. Saturday*

          Well, to be fair, we don’t know how terrifying/disturbing the remark would typically seem without knowing more specifics.

      3. MissElizaTudor*

        Agreed. People aren’t taking the potential harm of being, essentially, kidnapped and kept in a hospital against your will seriously enough. This incident was only a few hours, but some people get kept for much longer, and it costs them in time, mental health, and money (especially in the US, where these unwanted services aren’t always free of charge).

        This environment of fear around expressing such thoughts also makes it harder to seek help. I know people who don’t talk to their therapists about their true thoughts or only talk in really vague terms because of the fear of being taken away and kept against their will.

        If you really believe it’s a serious threat, do what you think is best, but it isn’t something to be taken lightly. It’s a huge responsibility, and it shouldn’t be used when something is a little comment or if you just want to teach someone a lesson about how serious such things are.

        For the LW, escalating to HR or a higher up makes sense, so they can evaluate next steps. Especially because this wasn’t what I thought it might have been (something like “if we hadn’t gotten this contract, I’d have killed myself” in a unserious tone). This seems more real sounding and involved other inappropriate things, like putting your wife leaving you onto someone who works for you.

        1. Aqua*

          I know so many people who routinely lie to all medical professionals about their mental health because they’re scared of being committed.

          1. Florence Reece*

            Yes. It’s a hard line to walk. I think for something like the LW’s situation, where her boss made a clear, direct threat that sounds possibly serious, the right call is to tell HR and get the boss some help.

            But mental healthcare in the US is so broken. My ex waited months for a therapy appointment, and in the first five minutes the therapist asked if he ever had suicidal ideation. The answer is yes, chronically — it’s well-documented in his medical history, he had a prevention plan in place and several supportive people in his life, he was forthright about it being a latent issue and NOT something he was actively planning or feeling especially in that appointment. But it’s part of his mental health treatment so he needs to be clear about it. That therapist ended the session and sent him to the hospital across town. He took it reasonably well and the hospital released him immediately because he wasn’t, you know, actively suicidal. But since he has a history of being 5150’d and intensive inpatient care, *I* lost my shit so hard. I was at work, couldn’t get away, couldn’t pick him up and make sure that this wouldn’t trigger him to become actively suicidal due to sensitivity around perceived rejection. It was the worst way to respond to someone who’s trying to seek help, and it really made me reconsider the pretty extreme response we sometimes have to people who are already suffering.

        2. metadata minion*

          Yes, thank you. Absolutely take people expressing suicidal thoughts seriously, but unless they’re stating an actual imminent intention to harm themselves, it’s much more appropriate to refer them to a hotline or other mental health services, or otherwise check in on them, than to call an ambulance. Inpatient psychiatric care can be life-saving, but it also takes away pretty much any other support the person has, as well as any control over what’s happening to them. That can be traumatic in its own right.

        3. Orv*

          I knew someone who was really angry because someone called a suicide prevention line on them, and the resulting hospital visit basically bankrupted them. However, I’m going to assume a manager at a company would have reasonably good health insurance.

          1. Prefer Pets*

            I would NOT assume that! “Manager” can mean a lot of different things to different companies. And being that this is the US, it’s not at all unlikely that they have a huge deductible to meet before their coverage kicks in.

        4. smirkette*

          Unfortunately, our mental health care system isn’t what it ought to be for lots of reasons. The sad truth is unless you’re wealthy and can hire bespoke specialists, emergency mental health care is too often being tied down, isolated, and sedated for a few days, which usually just adds to the person’s trauma. I wish we had compassionate, effective emergency services, but we don’t, so I’d only ever call if I was quite sure someone was serious in their intent to follow through on a plan.

      4. kanada*

        Yeah this strikes me as bad. Everyone I know who has been involuntarily sent to inpatient mental health care describes it as one of the most traumatic times in their life. Some of the commenters here may be genuinely concerned but there’s also a worrying thread of “THAT’LL teach him to make light of suicide!”

      5. CommanderBanana*

        Same.

        Also, the other day a colleague and I were talking about, if we were reincarnated, what animal would we want to be as a silly way to pass the time while waiting for a meeting to start. I really hope no one overhearing that would think we were discussing suicidal ideation!

      6. Meep*

        Heck! I was once in the ER for eight hours because they refused to test me for mumps (if it was an outbreak they didn’t want to deal with it – it wasn’t, it was just swollen cheek lamponids) but also wanted to trot me in front of every intern and resident. My husband had to pick a fight just to get them to release me. (He was my boyfriend at the time so he wasn’t allowed in.) I was only there because a Minute Clinic nurse insisted so when the next one insisted I go, I had a near panic attack.

    3. Observer*

      Even though it was ultimately unnecessary and took several hours to resolve, FM was still grateful he worked for a company who cared enough to have a policy in place for this situation and that they followed it.

      I’m glad it worked out for your relative. But, I agree with all of the others who say that something is wrong here. Because involuntary commitment is a BIG DEAL. And can be enormously harmful. I get that sometimes there is little choice, but you need to be very careful not to over-react. Because sure, the risk of suicide is *real*, but the risk posed by this kind of thing is also very real – and in some cases, can actually raise the risk of eventual suicide.

      Either your FM’s company has a policy that over-reacts, or their therapist is an idiot. Because if the company’s reaction was reasonable, the therapist should never have encouraged FM to say these things out loud. And if the therapist was correct that people should not have been expected to react this strongly, it means that the company did over-react and could have done extreme harm.

      1. New Jack Karyn*

        There’s a middle ground there, in which the therapist advises their client that other people may be alarmed to hear these things, so be sure to find a place where he can’t be overheard.

        1. Observer*

          Sure. And that’s what I would have expected a competent therapist to tell him if the statements would be legitimately concerning and serious enough to warrant that kind of response.

          I should have put it more clearly – I should have said that in such a case the therapist should never have encouraged him to say these things out loud *where others could hear him.* Rather, he should *write* them (and shred the paper they are on) or find a private place to say it.

  10. duinath*

    LW2: I believe you can call a non-emergency number to report threats like these to people with more experience in this area than I would assume HR or management to have, I believe it’s called a wellness check in the US, although I understand it feels like a big step to take. I do think it’s important that you don’t sit with this by yourself, and bringing it to the attention of someone above your boss is, potentially, a good step.

    That said, if you report it (and I believe you should) and you have reason to believe it is not taken seriously or if it happens again I would strongly consider starting to look for a different job. Living or working with someone who meets adversity with threats of suicide can be detrimental to your own wellbeing, even if they never go through with it.

    1. Ariaflame*

      Of course there is always the issue in the USA, especially for minority groups that the ‘wellness’ check can be conducted by armed police officers that leave the person worse off than if nobody had come near them.

      1. Brain the Brian*

        True, but you still have to escalate it to *someone*. A suicide threat is a suicide threat, and you cannot just let it slide. You do your part and hope that everyone else does, too.

        1. Aqua*

          if the only option you can think of involves potentially getting the person you’re worried about shot, then doing nothing is actually preferable

          1. Seashell*

            I don’t have the statistics, but I’m sure they exist, about how many members of minority groups commit or attempt suicide vs. how many get shot by police in a wellness check. That might help reveal which option is preferable.

            1. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

              Not really. The question would be how many potentially suicidal people in those demographics are helped by a police wellness check vs. harmed by one. (Until earlier this morning I would have recommended 988 on these circumstances but someone commented that it still gets the police sent out.)

              1. Aqua*

                my housemates once called the police on me because they thought I was suicidal (I wasn’t, I was upset and went to my partner’s house to get away from the housemates)
                the police called me on the phone to ask if I was going to kill myself and I had to try very hard to sound normal while completely terrified that I was about to somehow get in legal trouble
                the housemates did not attempt to phone me before just calling the police and giving them my number and I’m not sure what they thought the police would have done if I was suicidal because nobody knew where I was

                when people in my community are suicidal we send someone to check on them, as in, we go the fuck over ourselves, because the police do not help and you do not call law enforcement on people

          2. Kara*

            While I very much understand where you’re coming from and there are certain circumstances where I myself would hesitate to involve the police for that exact reason, this specific instance is one where I’d roll the dice. Is there a chance of a welfare check going wrong and them getting shot? Yes. Is there ALSO a chance of them going through with the threatened suicide if I don’t call for help? Yes, and quite frankly a much higher chance. It’s scary just how easily the brain can have one bad moment and switch into self-destructive mode, and someone who appears to be already 75% of the way there is going to need far less of a push to topple over that edge. In 2019 1,109 people died at the hands of the police. Meanwhile also in 2019, 47,511 people died to suicide; with males representing roughly 80% of that population. A tiny (real, but tiny) chance of death one way, vs a much larger chance of death by the 11th leading cause of death in the US, means that I’d roll the dice and make the call if it were me. Think of it this way; isn’t it helping to perpetuate racism if we refuse to get needed help for someone just because they’re a minority? It’s good intentions, but the outcome is that people who need help aren’t getting it.

            1. Aqua*

              do you have any evidence that calling the police will help even if they don’t shoot the person you called them on?

              1. Kara*

                Would you call the police if a white male coworker expressed suicidal thoughts? If so, why the difference? If not, who would you reach out to instead?

                End of the day, i want this person to get help. If the police have better odds than letting them stew in thoughts of the abyss, then i want that. If there’s a better option, then I DEFINITELY want that instead! But i don’t think that dividing mental health help into ‘white male’ and ‘minority’ is a good idea either.

                1. Aqua*

                  no, and it’s weird that you assumed I would. I wouldn’t call the police on anyone because the police fundementally arent there to help people, they’re there to enforce state control. I haven’t mentioned anything about white males or “minorities” in any of my comments on this.

                  there isn’t a good option for someone to reach out to. I would either help them myself, arrange community support, or accept that I’m not able to help this person

                3. metadata minion*

                  If someone is just experiencing suicidal thoughts, this doesn’t mean they’re about to act on them. Unless you think someone has a plan they’re going to carry out, why wouldn’t you refer them to a hotline or other community support services, or even just say “hey, that sounds rough; do you have people you can talk to?” or similar? Calling the police is really the nuclear option and is probably going to make the situation worse unless it’s a life-or-death situation. (And even then they often make the situation worse anyway, but they’re theoretically *supposed* to be for life-and-death situations).

              2. Seashell*

                If the police took the possibly suicidal person to the hospital for a psychiatric evaluation, which seems reasonably likely to happen, then that’s the best immediate option for help. Not a perfect option, but the best one available for most people.

                I did read a news article not too long ago about a program to have mental health professionals attend 911 calls about abnormal psychiatric behavior, which sounded like a good idea to me, but that’s not an option in most places at present.

                2. a trans person*

                  > If the police took the possibly suicidal person to the hospital for a psychiatric evaluation, which seems reasonably likely to happen, then that’s the best immediate option for help.

                  This is a cruel and possibly deadly lie. Have any loved ones who have been involuntarily committed? I do!

          3. Aqua*

            A lot of people are advocating approaching a situation with a potentially suicidal person under the assumption it’s better to do something than nothing, and then suggesting courses of action that at best won’t help and at worst will make the situation much worse.

            When someone is suicidal, there isn’t an authority figure you can call to fix it with no effort required from you. If someone you know is suicidal you have to either put in quite a lot of effort to help or accept that you aren’t able to help. There’s not an easy option where you get to fix it and feel like a good person without putting any effort in.

            When people I know have been suicidal we’ve had to do things like mobilise multiple friends to look for someone who is missing, drive to a different city in the middle of the night to take them to hospital, or talk to them on the phone until they’re no longer in crisis. It’s a difficult situation to help with and if you’re not able to help it doesn’t make you a bad person, but you have to think about what actions you can take to achieve a helpful outcome and not just do things for the sake of your concience regardless of if they’ll help.

            1. kanada*

              Thank you, this is a hard truth that a lot of people in the comments are trying to avoid.

        2. DJ Abbott*

          In 2020 some numbers were passed around that are alternatives to calling law-enforcement. One of them is a mental health hotline. For the Chicago area it is (312) 563-0445.

          As an experiment, I googled “Mental Health help Washington DC” to see what happens in another area. The 4th hit is the government department of behavioral health with the hotline 1-888-793-4357.

          I hope LW2’s higher ups handle this, but if they or anyone else needs a mental health hotline, googling can work.

          I also tried googling the suicide hotline. In Chicago it’s 988, but that seems to be regional. So anyone who needs that can Google it for their area.

              1. Brain the Brian*

                And noteworthy that it only became operational last year, so numbers older than that may have been replaced by it in some communities.

                1. Zelda*

                  it only became operational last year

                  And they still have a lot of work to do on publicity, I think– I for one had never heard of this before today.

          2. Nonanon*

            The suicide hotline is staffed entirely by volunteers and can be very hit or miss. Anecdotes, not evidence, but I’ve known several people who wish they had never called the hotline (they are still with us, FORTUNATELY, but one does have to conclude not everyone is this lucky).

            1. Sloanicota*

              I mean, yes, but I wouldn’t want people to let the perfect be the enemy of the good here and discourage people to use what resources do exist, given the alternative of receiving no help or support or only those of amateurs like OP with no knowledge or training at all.

              1. DJ Abbott*

                Maybe they can at least refer people to Mental Health services in their area. (I don’t know why iphone keeps capitalizing mental health.)

              2. Brain the Brian*

                Thank you for this reminder. Several commenters today seem to be forgetting that we can only use the systems and resources available to us and that doing something is almost certainly better than doing nothing in this case. Police are not perfect, but they are trained to safely conduct wellness visits in many communities — and in any case, most of us are advocating for the LW to raise this to HR, who can then decide a best course of action, whether that’s a police wellness check or something else.

                1. Aqua*

                  Sorry we all live in awful countries with no support structures for mental health crisises! You can work on fixing that if you want! Calling the police won’t help no matter how much you wish it would!

                  There’s not a grownup you can call to deal with it for you! Yes I agree that’s scary! No I don’t have a magic solution, that doesn’t make me wrong though!

                2. a trans person*

                  Are you a cop? You’re being incredibly, almost delusionally positive about US police in these comments. Adding cops will make things worse! Not better! Don’t call cops on people!

                4. Glen*

                  this isn’t “the perfect being the enemy of the good”, it’s “the difficult situation being the enemy of the actually much worse”.

                  Police fundamentally, by their nature as armed instruments of state violence, are not equipped for this. They never can be. There is no possible scenario where a “mental health check” from a group with guns and the ability to drag you away and lock you up will help.

        3. Meep*

          One of my friend’s roommate/friend had a psychotic break which ended up with her wandering on a bridge with a knife in her hand at night. The roommate, in question, was a white female in her early twenties at the time. My friend was terrified of calling the police because her roommate being killed was a real possibility due to that kitchen knife and ended up having to deal with it on her own. She still has some trauma associated with having to pick if her childhood friend was going to die at her own hands or by cop. (Luckily, said roommate is doing much better.)

          Police, who are not trained crisis counselors, are not the answer.

    2. Nodramalama*

      I don’t know if this exists in the U.S but in Australia in addition to standard first aid training, there is also mental health first aid training, which a lot of HR people do, which should (in theory) assist to identify the appropriate response to something like this

      1. Harper the Other One*

        Second the recommendation for seeking someone with mental health first aid – they can help triage a situation and also often know resources in the local area that can help.

      2. Higher Ed Cube Farmer*

        Mental Health First Aid training is available in the USA too.

        The program my org used is actually the one developed in Australia, just with the location-specific information replaced with info for USA, our state, city, and organization.

    3. Zelda*

      An emergency services wellness check is for an emergency situation, when you have reason to believe that someone is about to harm themselves *right now*. It’s not a verbal consultation about someone’s general state of health (physical or mental), but a kick-down-the-doors intervention for violence or a medical emergency in progress. Not at all appropriate for a threat for a future “if he loses his job.”

      You mention a “non-emergency number,” but who would that go to? It’s appropriately a healthcare matter, and we don’t have any central authority or mechanism for a person to interfere in the healthcare of an adult not in their family, outside of emergency services. HR might at least be able to refer the boss to an EAP (as discussed in the post linked in the answer); they don’t have to directly counsel him themselves.

      1. duinath*

        Truly did not know there is no non emergency number in the US, that is very sad.

        You will note my comment referenced the fact that this was an option I thought the LW could consider, while also making it quite clear (or so I thought) that I am not an american, and also reaffirmed the option to bring it to people above their boss at the company.

        The most important part of my comment, in my mind, the part I most wished to convey, is that this is not okay. LW should not feel they have to sit with this alone, and they should not be put in a position where people around them attempt to normalize this behaviour. Hopefully that won’t happen, but if it does, I would once again urge LW to do their best to leave that environment. It is not okay, it is not normal, and it is not healthy for anyone involved.

        1. BellaStella*

          The USA does have non emergency numbers. For example, the non emergency police number in Seattle is Police non-emergency (206) 625-5011 . And we have 988 line for help, too in crisis.

          2. anon24*

            The non emergency numbers often still ring through to 911 dispatch FYI, they just ring on a “non-emergent” phone. I’m an EMT and when I have to call county dispatch by phone I use the same non-emergent number given to the public and it gets me to the same dispatchers 911 would, it’s just understood that using that number is not for emergencies.

            For mental health issues many places do have a city or county crisis center and you can call them directly and get help and they can help determine if emergency services are needed if you aren’t sure.

            1. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

              Really? Shit. What’s the point of making the big deal about 988 as a mental health crisis number if it still gets police sent out?

                1. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

                  EMTs aren’t trained in mental health crisis any more than cops are. So while that wouldn’t put the person in further danger it wouldn’t really help, either. Anon24, are you sure this applies to 988 as well as to the local non-emergency numbers?

                2. Prudence and Wakeen Snooter Theatre for the Performing Oats*

                  Reply to Hastily Blessed Fritos:

                  EMTs often do get some mental health training, whether formally or on the job- and they aren’t armed.

              2. Someone Online*

                You don’t automatically get a police response with 988. Most of the time it is time spent with someone trained to de-escalate a current suicidal moment and find additional services in the future.

                I will also say my local police department has two social workers on staff, who would be able to provide mental health assistance if there were a police response.

              3. sparkle emoji*

                I don’t think 988 is the non-emergent number anon24 is speaking about. Most towns will have a non-emergency number. Philadelphia for instance uses 311. Its the number you can call for things like cars blocking the sidewalk, street maintenance requests, issues that need police involvement but not right away, basically anything a resident might need from city services. Depending on the amount of resources that are allocated, some local non emergency numbers will route through 911, but I’m not sure that’s also true for 988.

              4. Milton's Red Swingline Stapler*

                988 is the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline https://988lifeline.org/. It’s completely separate from 911. When you call 988 your call gets routed to your local crisis line and the calls get answered by trained crisis workers. All calls are confidential.

                Some municipalities have non-emergency numbers you can call aside from 911, but again, that’s completely separate from 988. 988 is specifically for mental health crisis intervention.

            2. nodramalama*

              I was just listening to a podcast episode on 988 the other day and I don’t think that’s true? I think its operated completely differently, like Beyond Blue in Australia

            3. Nightengale*

              A few years back I discovered fraudulent purchases on my bank card. The bank requested a police report. I called the local precinct non-emergency number.

              And was directed to call 911

              I can’t think of anything much less of a 911 emergency than reporting a non-violent crime that had occurred more than 3 weeks earlier . . .

          3. Cat Tree*

            Yeah, I once used a non-emergency number when I found someone’s lost dog. There isn’t a national non-emergency number but most jurisdictions have their own which is easy to find through Google.

        2. Humble Schoolmarm*

          In Canada, at least, non-emergency police numbers are to report crimes or possible crimes where no one is in danger (for example, a car break-in or a minor car accident. I also called when I got a phishing email purporting to be from an international assassin. I wanted to know whether this was a police thing or a block and delete thing). A wellness check would also be for something more serious than a statement like this (i.e. no one’s heard from Humble in three days and that isn’t like her). A mental health crisis line is the best bet around here, both for LW and their boss.
          Note: Canada has fewer (but not no) examples of wellness checks going horribly wrong, so it’s less a safety thing and more a “there are groups better equipped to handle this than the police” thing.

      2. RagingADHD*

        Every local police department in the US has a non-emergency number, it just isn’t a standard 3-digit code. It’s a regular local phone number, and you can look it up. You can even call your local station directly and talk to one of the officers who are assigned to your neighborhood.

        Non emergency wellness checks absolutely exist, but they aren’t really for the type of situation in the letter. They are for things like “I haven’t seen my elderly neighbor in 2 days and she isn’t answering the phone”.

        The police go check it out, and they call the EMTs if needed.

        But if the boss is standing there in front of you at work, clearly a wellness check of any kind isn’t what’s needed.

      3. Saturday*

        Agreed – this was a threat, but not an immediate threat. HR would be much more appropriate in this situation.

      4. Lyra Belacqua*

        This is the correct move. Calling 911, or even calling for a welfare check, would be a wild overreaction. The vast majority of people who consider suicide and even threaten suicide never make an attempt. Unless the boss was threatening to kill himself imminently and had a plan to do so and the means to carry it out, HR/EAP is the right call. (Which isn’t to say threats like these aren’t serious! Clearly the boss needs some kind of intervention. But they’re not emergent.)

      5. The Gollux, Not a Mere Device*

        Some places have non-emergency numbers, but they’re not well-publicized.

        When 911 services went down in Massachusetts recently, there were social media posts giving specific numbers for emergency services. I saved the Boston EMS and fire department numbers in case of future need.

        If you’re somewhere that uses the 311 non-emergency number, they will connect you with a non-emergency police line, but it’s mostly for reporting things like potholes, landlords who aren’t supplying heat, and broken pedestrian crossing buttons.

    4. Ana Gram*

      That really depends on jurisdiction. Some (but not most) areas will have some type of coresponder program where some combination of a mental health clinician, EMS provider, and police officer will respond but most often you’ll get an officer and (if needed) and ambulance. There are national hotlines that can help someone determine what to do and that’s probably the best bet in the US in this sort of situation.

  11. Cam*

    I think the leadership thing feels icky because it’s one of those things that you show (and other people have to say about you) in order to make it true. If not it feels like it’s a fake it til you make it. Which maybe that inspires some people to take on those roles more?

    1. Irish Teacher.*

      And it’s a very hard thing to judge about yourself (especially without actual management experience). I bet some of the TERRIBLE bosses we’ve read of here think themselves “natural leaders” and I have no doubt the handful of coworkers we’ve heard of who unilaterally declared themselves the OP’s manager without any authorisation and the woman who went over her boss’s head, them proceeded to tell her boss off for interfering, in front of her grand boss, thought the same. Most working with them would not agree!

    2. Falling Diphthong*

      “At heart I am a leader” = you wouldn’t guess it from my actions.
      Like “At heart I am a published author” = not a published author.

    3. sparkle emoji*

      Yeah, self-reporting leadership skills feels like a warning for gumption ahead.

    1. Nodramalama*

      That seems a bit harsh. It was a weird moment that clearly others also around LW thought was weird

      1. Jam on Toast*

        Overreaction? Maybe. Or maybe it’s one more data point that makes this manager’s pattern of ‘small’ things much clearer. Like who they always voluntell to take minutes in a meeting? Or who’s always tasked with ordering catering and organizing the sympathy cards or gifts? Or tapped for facetime with leadership or outside clients? Or how long it takes different team members with the same qualifications to get a promotion?

        We’re asked to take the LW at their word. Let’s do that and not simply dismiss their discomfort because you feel it’s not a ‘big’ enough problem for them to worry about.

    3. Ginger Cat Lady*

      Oh heck no. Anyone who talks like I am property of my husband will be corrected.
      I’m so over the whole thing. Can we please just talk about women as people and not property?
      Personally I’d take the last option and ask him if he really said what I though I heard him say.
      If you think this kind of “gratitude” is intended as a compliment, try saying simply “she’s great to work with, we appreciate her work.”
      No need to thank someone who doesn’t actually do the work.

    4. Observer*

      you’re reading too much into it.

      You simply cannot know that. Alison is completely correct to say that the LW should think about what else she knows about this guy. I’ve had people say this kind of thing and it was more like the way people are talking about. But this one guy… He didn’t use those words, but what he did say and the way he said is left absolutely no doubt of his intent. And it *absolutely* tracked with his overall behavior. My husband just looked at me with a “Did he just fall from the moon?” look. And he finally started to believe my complaints about the guy.

      People like this really do exist.

  13. Zelda*

    “You wouldn’t do that for resumes you’re sending anywhere else, only for this one.”

    Doesn’t LW4 need to include the old name on all applications, so that when prospective employers call to verify that line on the resume, HR at LW’s first job can find the record and confirm? Otherwise there’s a risk that they’ll deny LW ever worked there, leaving it looking like a lie.

      1. Zelda*

        I guess one could still mention it during an interview, as the verification steps probably won’t be done until after that. But it’s highly likely that the interviewers won’t be the same individuals who are doing the verification, and it’s very easy for the information not to get passed to the right person. Better, I would think, to have all the info needed there in the same place.

    2. Tree*

      My resume only includes my current name, but during background checks they ask if you have gone by any other names. At that point, I provide my maiden name since the first years of my professional experience and all my education is under that name.

      1. General von Klinkerhoffen*

        Yes, exactly this.

        “I got married since I last worked at XYZ Inc so they’ll know me as Tangerina Ecclescake.”

        You should I think be prepared to evidence the change of name so they can validate that they’re referencing the same person. In the UK you could cross-reference using your NI number (which an old employer will have had for tax reasons) so perhaps it would be appropriate to use the SSN in the US.

    3. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

      People I know (either women who changed their surnames when they got married or trans people who changed their first names) usually will disclose past names at the “verify you really worked there” stage of the process.

      1. Nonanon*

        Honestly, this is one of the only reasons to prefer CVs over resumes; it’s not uncommon to see “Prudence Teapot changed name to Prudence Snooter” as a footnote when listing publications.

    4. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      Typically you don’t do that until later in the process, like after the interview.

      Also the job she is referring to was 10 years ago. She might not put that job on resumes to other companies because it’s been so long. And would most people even check that far back unless there was a reference listed from that company?

    5. Sloanicota*

      Another option would be to list yourself as “Gillian (Dana) Scully” which I’ve seen done elsewhere. People’s names do change in all sorts of ways.

      1. Nocturna*

        That format would usually mean that Gillian is your legal name and you want to be called Dana, though.

  14. Elsa*

    LW5, I have a few employees at my company who use a different name than the one they grew up with, typically because we employ several immigrants who used a different name in their home country. Typically on their resume they will just write both names at the top, usually in the format Oldname (Newname) Lastname, but sometimes the reverse. Once they start working for us we address them only by their new name. I think writing it like that could work in your situation as well.

    1. Name changes*

      Yup this really isn’t a big deal. Add it at the top and against the job in all your resumes and move on.

      The only time I’ve ever seen nane changes be a problem us when people tried to hide them / didn’t think they’d be important.

  15. Mark Greene*

    #2 I lost my younger brother to suicide a month ago. Since his death is so recent I would not be able to work with someone that threatened that, Go to HR. This was incredibly over the line and someone needs to make that very clear.

    7. Goldenrod*

      You are correctly pointing out that this boss is potentially traumatizing people who report to him…He doesn’t know what they’ve been through. He does need to stop doing that.

    10. JustBeKind*

      I’m so sorry for your loss. We also lost someone in our family one month ago today to a violent suicide, she was only 51 & left two kids behind. It’s unbelievably traumatizing. I hope perhaps a grief counselor or grief support group can help you process during this very difficult time. How I wish 988 was more well known & utilized by those in crisis.

    1. Myrin*

      I don’t know if your username is topical and you’re trying to get a rise out of people, but in case it’s not: going by that logic, everyone sitting near them – the multiple people who apparently said “Wait, did he just say that?” – must all be predisposed to taking offence, which is possible but pretty unlikely.

      I actually agree that it’s more likely the manager really meant it in an “how wonderful to be working with your wife” kind of way but if he’s known to regularly exhibit sexist mannerisms or even just to be really condescending and view everyone else as literally beneath him, OP is quite right to be taken aback by his comment.

    2. Insert Clever Name Here*

      Nope. There are people who say this that indeed mean “thanks for allowing your wife to leave the kitchen and come work with us.” And if you don’t care to take my word for it (or the word of other commenters above), then consider that others at OP’s table who heard it asked if that’s what they all just heard:

      People sitting near us who heard it asked me, Wait, did he say…?

      1. Constance Lloyd*

        Alison has received letters about women whose husbands don’t let them work. There was a nurse whose husband resigned on her behalf and an employee whose husband would wait outside the office and effectively pressure her to leave early. It’s not unreasonable to wonder if the boss was being a jerk or just awkward!

        1. Insert Clever Name Here*

          Yes, I know — I know people in real life like that as well — and I agree that it’s perfectly reasonable to wonder if the comment was a sexist jab or a poorly worded innocuous comment. My comment wasn’t saying it’s unreasonable to wonder which the manager intended, but in response to the top comment in the thread (which has since been removed) which said only people “predisposed to taking offense at everything” could possibly think it was meant to be sexist.

    3. londonedit*

      I assume you’re trolling (or at least it’s a case of ‘tell me you’ve never existed in the world as a woman without telling me you’ve never existed in the world as a woman’…) but it’s not even about ‘taking offence’ necessarily (which, like so many other things, has been co-opted by the ‘woke snowflakes taking offence at everything’ crowd and has lost its original meaning).

      The OP wrote in because it was a ‘this felt off to me, was I right to feel a bit icky about what he said?’ situation. In all probability he did mean it more as ‘we’re so grateful for everything OP does’ but that’s not how it came out and not how it was interpreted by the OP and by others around her. As a woman in the 21st century, my partner doesn’t ‘let’ me do anything. Because we’re adults and equals. But sadly there are many people in this world who do see it as ‘thank you for allowing your wife to come and work for us’.

    4. JustKnope*

      This is rude! And untrue. Women face sexist comments regularly and it is worth pushing back on gross comments.

      1. Peanut Hamper*

        Exactly! And even if this person didn’t mean it to be sexist, it’s still best not to make jokes that could be construed as sexist. I think the fact that this manager slinked away fairly quickly and left LW no time to respond might point to the fact that they knew they had said something sexist and were embarrassed enough to exit quickly.

        1. DJ Abbott*

          I was thinking this too. When a person leaves right after saying something, it’s because they don’t want to deal with the response.
          Whether it’s because he accidentally said something sexist and was embarrassed, or he knew it was sexist while he was saying it, he didn’t want to deal with the fallout.

          1. Myrin*

            I read that as he was leaving anyway/these were his parting words, which makes sense because, conversation-category-wise, this is indeed something you say before taking your leave.

    5. Jennifer Strange*

      Only someone who has never faced micro-aggressions and systemic prejudices would accuse someone of being “predisposed to taking offense at everything”.

    6. Seashell*

      As we have learned in recent years, there are men who won’t take meetings alone with women in the workplace, and some popular politicians want to turn the calendar back to 1952. I don’t think you need to be predisposed to taking offense to everything to find this comment at least borderline creepy and wonder about the intent behind it.

    7. nodramalama*

      1. people say out of pocket things all the time, ESPECIALLY men to women. 2. clearly other people also bumped up on it, so it registered to others as weird.

    8. Allonge*

      So: what do you think it means? And what is your objection to using terminology to convey that message without implying that there is anyone ‘letting’ aanyone else do something?

  17. Apex Mountain*

    I probably would have assumed the boss was joking or just exaggerating and done nothing except think to myself stop being so dramatic. But reading this has given me pause to rethink.

    1. El l*

      Most times I’d think it was just an awkward attempt at humor rather than ideology.

      But unless i know the person I’m reserving a little judgment. Because people surprise.

      1. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

        I think Apex is referring to the potentially suicidal boss, not the possibly sexist boss.

    2. ampersand*

      I understand where you’re coming from, but I think what makes it more concerning in this case is that the boss was freaking out about his job. Sometimes people joke about suicide in a way that makes it clear it’s a joke…here it sounds like a cry for help/like he could be serious, whether he intended it that way or not.

  18. MPM*

    Re #1: This is a mentality in a small strange subset of managers who are secretly time travelers from decades past. My spouse’s manager once mailed me a handwritten letter thanking me for letting spouse work there and supporting their career. The letter read like it was straight out of 1950 and was weird as hell. Spouse and I privately mocked it to each other, but I didn’t respond, spouse never said anything to manager, and we both just wrote it off as another example that manager is someone way out of step with modern professional norms. Managers, don’t do this!!

    1. Crencestre*

      And if you MUST time-travel, do pick a more interesting time and place than America c. 1950, okay? Just please leave your jousting armor where it belongs – back in the middle ages! (Oh, and the same thing goes for attitudes towards women that belong in the 1950s, okay?)

      1. Georgia Carolyn Mason*

        Ya, not sure where/when I’d go, but that wouldn’t be it. That said, I’m guessing I’d be the person who managed to land in the middle of a war and got killed the second I stepped out of the time machine. I think I saw a movie like that, although of course the character it happened to was a doomed minority sidekick.

    2. DJ Abbott*

      I’m reminded of the Honeymooners episode where Ralph was laid off or something and to get a job, Alice had to say she was single and Ralph was her brother.

  19. Chairman of the Bored*

    Employers use puffery in their marketing and recruiting materials as a matter of routine, it’s entirely fair for job applicants to do the same.

    1. Peanut Hamper*

      I would like to agree with you (because what’s good for the goose is good for the gander) but if this happened wholesale, then it would result in a lot of wasted time for people on both sides of application.

    2. I should really pick a name*

      The thing is, it’s not going to help them get hired.

      Interviewer: “It says here you have 20 years of experience in education and editing, but I only see 2 years of editing experience in your job history. Could you clarify that?”

      Interviewee: “I said 20 years of experience in education AND editing, not 20 years in each.”

      Interviewer: Mmm hmm….

      1. Sloanicota*

        Yeah, it’s really nothing for OP to be fretting about. It’s unlikely to work for any reasonable role, and a role that doesn’t do decent vetting deserves what they get, so OP can cheerfully put this out of their head and never think about it again.

      2. Chairman of the Bored*

        It may or may not be *practical* depending on the circumstances and how artfully it’s implemented.

        My point is that it’s not immoral or unethical.

        How many companies are advertising positions on “Dynamic world-class teams with competitive pay” when the reality is a “dysfunctional bunch of underpaid amateurs”.

        1. nodramalama*

          You might not see it as immoral or unethical, but it is dumb. And a very easy lie to be caught out in, because its going to become abundantly clear with a bit of prodding if someone who implies they have 10 years of editing experience has 2 and is bad at it

  20. RagingADHD*

    If LW3’s coworker has 18 or so years’ experience as a classroom teacher, I’d expect they do have some valuable leadership qualities and managerial skills, as well as transferrable skills for training. But they’d be better off addressing that connection directly.

    1. I went to school with only 1 Jennifer*

      Oh, lol, I was interpreting those 20 years “in education and…” as being mostly their own 12 years of required schooling + college. Clearly I did not actually do any addition there. :-D

  21. KitKat*

    LW5: for the resume going out to your former company you could also list both names in the resume heading, like

    Gillian (Dana) Scully
    Gillian “Dana” Scully
    Gillian Dana Scully

    Just to give some other options. It doesn’t matter that it isn’t/wasn’t technically a middle name. You’re not obligated to use your legal name on your resume and that would be a simple way to clue someone in if they knew you by the previous name.

    1. ecnaseener*

      Gillian “Dana” reads as if you go by Dana, so I wouldn’t use that one. The parentheses one should be fine though.

  22. ResuMAYDAY*

    Resume writer here. If I were writing this resume I would list your name (to this employer only) as Gillian (Dana) Scully.

  23. musical chairs*

    LW1, I think it’s a common enough sentiment said to partners of all genders, that bringing it back up after the fact would seem a little much.

    This comment well understood as a corny way said to close out a conversation with someone you only know through a colleague, and is often said as a light joke.

    Even if the LW were to use Alison’s script, the answer to that question would very likely be “…yes?”/“I don’t remember” And they’d have to explain that they’d took the comment very literally. Even if they got an apology, it wouldn’t be about committing to combat sexism, it’d be about making the LW feel better, which isn’t a useful outcome.

    Generally, I’m not a fan of providing feedback with a pointed question and no clarity about impact. It’s passive-aggressive and puts people on the defensive from the jump. If you’re operating in good faith and just trying to correct course, you have to leave room for the possibility that the offender do not see the problem/impact. Not to make excuses for rudeness/harm but because most people do not intentionally do things they think are wrong/ill-advised. So unless your goal is purely to embarrass people into treating you well, you have to start with more than “oh my god, really?”. Especially in contexts where you’re dealing with folks of different cultural backgrounds, different generations, different neurotypes.

    LW, if you sense a larger pattern, deal with the impact of the larger problems on your work with the appropriate parties, you’ll have much more purchase there and actually solve the problem.

    2. metadata minion*

      I’m now really curious whether this is a generational thing, a field-of-work thing, or what, because I’d never heard anyone say it before today and I’d be deeply confused and vaguely offended if someone said it to my partner. Maybe it’s because I’m not in an environment where managers typically meet their employees’ spouses?

    3. a trans person*

      > Even if they got an apology, it wouldn’t be about committing to combat sexism, it’d be about making the LW feel better, which isn’t a useful outcome.

      “Hey, this thing you said came across as sexist and it bothered me.”

      “I’m so sorry! I misspoke, and I’d never mean that.”

      “Thanks, I feel better!”

      ^^^ Is this “not a useful outcome” to you? Is us women feeling safe so utterly unimportant to you that you wave off apologies as “not useful”?

      1. NotAnotherManager!*

        Yeah, that caught my attention as well. While I agree with much of the rest of the comment, I can’t agree with this take on apologies. It does help when someone acknowledges that they hurt your feelings/offended you and regrets it. It’s also not a binary thing where you either apologize to make someone feel better OR because you’ve reflected on how poorly something sounded – it can be both or more. I really don’t like assuming someone’s intent when they’re making the right conciliatory gesture – surely we’ve all stuck our foot in our mouths, been called on it, and, even after issuing an apology, reflected on our own thoughts/behavior later?

      2. Jackalope*

        Yes, sometimes the win is having this person know that they hurt or upset you and letting you know that they’re sorry. If they keep doing it all the time or do a nonapology like “I’m sorry you feel that way,” then yeah, prob useless. But repair attempts for relationships (including coworker relationships) are very important.

      3. musical chairs*

        I’m also a woman. That’s a really odd accusation to throw in there at the end. Not sure where you got that from my comment.

        I think you and I disagree with the point of an apology would be in a situation like this. If I legitimately believe this person made this comment from a sexist framework, I’m significantly more interested in them understanding why what they said to me was wrong so that they don’t do it again to me or to other people.

        If you catch somebody off guard and they’re just apologizing to shut you up, they don’t actually care about your feelings, they care about not feeling like they are a bad person. Or smoothing over tension and carrying on with their day. That’s more what I meant about the offending party being focused on “making the LW feel better”. It’s often insincere and doesn’t get at the root.

  24. Olive*

    If I didn’t actually want the job, I’d let them know that I’m a millionaire at heart and I would expect my salary to start reflecting this ASAP.

  25. RussianInTexas*

    At partner’s s 20 years at the company award ceremony his boss thanked me public for letting him out of the house so he could inflict his puns on the rest of the team.
    I almost replied with “thank god you make him leave the house or I would murder him”, but did not lol.

    1. Pastor Petty Labelle*

      Context is key. OP’s situation could go either way. It would be okay to just roll your eyes at this one and move on. But if its part of a pattern, and you feel comfortable doing so, speak up.

    2. I Have RBF*

      I might have been tempted to dryly say “Sorry, he kept picking the locks on his cage”, then grin.

  26. Raisin Walking to the Moon*

    So, I have a history of suicide attemps, and suicidal ideology is something I have a lot of experience with. I don’t appreciate that this is framed as, “even if they’re not serious, take it seriously because they need to see that it’s out of line.”
    Think about what “not serious” means. If it means “trying to manipulate people to get an outcome,” well, hey! That’s maladaptive and that person ALSO needs a psych eval and help!
    People don’t do shitty, hurtful things because they think it’s cool. They do them because they’re in pain and have limited coping skills. THAT’S why you take suicidal threats seriously: even if they’re “not serious,” the person needs help.

    1. HannahS*

      Hm, I took that to mean, “Some people refer to suicide casually because they’re just generally kind of thoughtless and think those kinds of remarks are harmless hyperbole and THAT’s out of line.” I remember that about 20-25 years ago, jokes and lighthearted remarks about violence and suicide were kind of in-fashion, especially on TV and among people who saw themselves as “edgy.” I hated it then and you still see some of it now; sometimes people make “jokes” and don’t realize how insensitive-to-triggering it is for people around them.

      1. doreen*

        Me too – I took it to be a reference to something like “If I don’t get some sleep , I’m going to kill myself”. Which isn’t usually an attempt to manipulate but is out of line at work even if it’s just hyperbole.

        1. Raisin Walking to the Moon*

          Yeesh, really? I’m glad I missed out on that!
          It’s very hard for me to image a scenario where a man is yelling “if i lose my job, my wife will leave me and I’ll kill myself” and meaning it as emo hyperbole rather than a panicked admission that his worst fear is coming true.

          1. doreen*

            You and I clearly have had different experiences – I have heard upset people screaming ” You did X? I’m going to kill you ” or “I’m going to kill Bob” without either having serious intentions of murder or it being an attempt to manipulate often enough so it’s not that hard for me to imagine. But it’s not a matter of being cool or emo – panic and hyperbole are not mutually exclusive.

            1. Nodramalama*

              Nothing you’ve described should occur in a workplace. I certainly would not be ok with someone at work screaming “I’m going to kill you”

              1. doreen*

                It absolutely shouldn’t occur at work . I’m just disagreeing with the idea that it must be either meant seriously or as manipulation and that just telling the person it’s out of line could absolutely never be an appropriate response.

                1. Raisin Walking to the Moon*

                  If that’s what you’re saying, @doreen, you’re not disagreeing with me. I’m certainly not suggesting that “telling the person it’s out of line could absolutely never be an appropriate response.” I’m saying that framing it as manipulative is needless, because being manipulative is symptomatic. Kind of by definition.

          2. Allonge*

            Well, but the situation in your example and that of doreen is also very different.

            It’s much easier to take ‘I have not slept well this week’ as a joke than ‘my life will fall apart’. It’s still not very appropriate, but the lower stakes make it more obviously hyperbole.

            1. Raisin Walking to the Moon*

              @Allonge YUP. The fear that your spouse will leave you if you lose your job is real, and it wouldn’t be the first time it motivated suicidal action.

      2. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

        Oh my god, those things bothered me so much. I experienced as a teen, less joking about suicide but more about self-harm/putting down people dealing with that/making fun of “emos.”

        And there I was not fitting that stereotype, but still dealing with self-harm for much of my high school years. The jokes genuinely bothered me because of the trigger, but also the inference that people would not support me or would make fun of me if I shared my struggle.

        Finally there was an adult in my life who likely knew what was going on, since it’s likely my parents went to her for advice. (Never talked to me or made it awkward, but was kinder to me as I struggled to find my way out). This person was at least able to shut down the jokes among my friends and encourage them to also shut it down when they heard it. I’ll always appreciate that.

    2. Anon today*

      I think these are different categories. A potential suicide attempt is IMO something a whole community is responsible for trying to prevent, although obviously the person considering the attempt is at the center.

      Manipulative maladaptive behavior is often abusive. People can have a really good reason for falling into that behavior, but I don’t agree that it’s necessarily anyone else’s responsibility to get them help – that’s what grown-ups do for themselves. And frankly, I’m not sure I agree that people don’t do crappy things because they think it’s cool. I report to someone right now who routinely bullies and belittles their staff. I don’t doubt that there’s pain behind this behavior, but I also see a sense of pride and satisfaction and being able to exert that kind of control over the people around them. Ultimately, it’s that person’s responsibility and no one else’s to take responsibility for who they are and exist appropriately in society.

    3. Frieda*

      This makes a lot of sense to me.

      A family member threatened (a very explicitly described mode of) suicide specifically in my home and my response was either a. you’re very distressed and need mental health support or b. you’re being extremely manipulative and … need mental health support.

      I read much later about using self-harm threats as an abuse tactic and I’m not comfortable with that analysis being applied except by a trained professional because it potentially leads down a road where people in crisis are blamed and further stigmatized but there are IMO/IME instances where that particular shoe fits.

      1. Trek*

        A friend had a 20 year old daughter who would threaten suicide to manipulate her mother. The mother had attempted suicide years before so it worked for months. Finally the mother told her daughter if you threaten suicide again I’m calling 911 no discussion. The daughter finally stopped using it to manipulate her but still found other ways.

    4. Observer*

      <I.lPeople don’t do shitty, hurtful things because they think it’s cool. They do them because they’re in pain and have limited coping skills.

      Sometimes. And sometimes, yes that are jerks.

      But regardless this needs to be kicked upstairs because it’s above the LW’s paygrade.

      Either this guy is hurting, and needs someone to direct him to resources – as well as a straight up warning that they need to figure something out rather than letting it out on their employees, or he’s a jerk and needs to be told to knock it off.

  27. Jennifer Strange*

    In regards to #1, I had a colleague do a similar thing when introducing him to my husband. I know he meant it in a joking way, but it still felt icky to me. I’ve never seen a man say the same thing to a male co-worker’s wife (and I’ve never seen a woman say it to anyone at all!)

    1. Sloanicota*

      I agree with the advice given though. Probably just disregard this. You can roll your eyes and assume it was a thoughtless or poorly worded comment (sometimes I do this when I feel a bit socially awkward, like, what am I going to talk about with my coworker’s spouse, I’ve got nothing, then I blurt out something) *and* keep your eyes out for real evidence of a problem.

    2. SeemsNormalToMe*

      I have. It’s a pretty standard boss joke when meeting a spouse of any gender for the first time.

      1. Plate of Wings*

        Same, my husband has had several bosses (men and women) and even an employee who said it to me (very sweet). It’s good that they recognize that his crunch times and busy seasons need to fit into his life and not the other way around.

        My warmer bosses have said similar things upon meeting my husband that conveyed “like you, we value Plate of Wings, nice to meet you” lol.

        This is just a being married thing. Lots of little rituals people do to married people.

      2. NotAnotherManager!*

        Same, though it’s usually phrased more elegantly to acknowledge that our job often escapes the confines of business hours, which certainly has an impact on their family life, not “letting” the spouse do something.

        The only people who talk to me about what my spouse “let” me do are our older relatives who are still struggling to escape the rampant sexism in which they were steeped from birth.

      3. Ginger Cat Lady*

        Might be “pretty standard” but that doesn’t mean it isn’t a creepy thing to say. It needs to stop.

        1. The Witch in the Woods*

          Exactly. The fact that LW is uncomfortable is enough to know that kind of “joking” isn’t acceptable anymore. It’s only a joke if the target finds it funny.

  28. Apex Mountain*

    I don’t think the LinkedIn entries really matter – if I’m looking to hire someone I’m looking at their work experience, not what they write in a headline or description.

    Same with when someone lists an “objective” on their resume – it won’t make a difference either way – I just want to see if your experience is enough to go forward

  29. H.Regalis*

    LW2 – I’m sorry. That sucks so much. Please treat it like a serious threat and kick this up the chain to HR or your grandboss. This is not something you need to take on. If he was serious, then your boss gets the help he needs. If he was being hyperbolic, then he learns not to call you and make emotionally manipulative threats.

    I had a partner for a long time who was very emotionally unstable. I took off work so many times to help him through the Crisis of the Day that I was close to getting fired. He called me threatening to kill himself, so I had to tell my officemates (shared, one-room office) that I was going to go run for coffee so I could go out to the parking lot to call 911 and tell the police approximately where he was so they could find him and put him on a 5150 hold. It was awful. Do not take this kind of stuff on unless you have to.

      1. H.Regalis*

        Thanks! It certainly wasn’t fun at the time, but now I’m with someone who’s emotionally stable, handles their own shit, and doesn’t expect me to be a human pacifier ^_^

        If anyone is reading LW2’s letter and is thinking that if they were in LW2’s shoes, they would try to help the boss themselves because he’s clearly hurting, I understand that impulse. I don’t want to see other people suffer either—I’ve been in awful situations where I had zero support and I wouldn’t wish that on anyone—but I’ve learned the hard way that some people don’t want “help” in the sense of “help changing their circumstances.” They want someone they can latch onto and spew all their bullshit at. Be wary of who you get involved with.

  30. Nilsson Schmilsson*

    I wish LinkedIn would just go away. I don’t believe much of what’s on there anymore.

    1. Peanut Hamper*

      This. The more they focus on getting eyeballs and clicks, the more outrageous the stuff I see on there, and the more their credibility is reduced. I basically use it for job searching and that’s about it.

    2. Mermaid of the Lunacy*

      Ayyy-men. So much puffery and posturing. I appreciate that there’s a business platform so people don’t have to (eww) rely on FB or Tik Tok if they’re looking for a new job, but it just feels like high school cliques in a business suit.

  31. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

    Just solidarity, LW2. I had this happen at a job too, and it’s really scary. Worked for almost two years on pandemic-era business loan administration (for entrepreneurs affected by COVID).

    The effects were so bad we had to develop a protocol for what to do if someone says “if I don’t get business funding, I’ll lose everything and kill myself.”

    I hate to say it, but with half of Americans or more living paycheck to paycheck, jobs CAN be life or death, or at least the difference between food or shelter or…not. Happens in the LGBT community where people don’t always have family support.

    1. CommanderBanana*

      I hate to say it, but with half of Americans or more living paycheck to paycheck, jobs CAN be life or death, or at least the difference between food or shelter or…not

      This. And in this case, even if it’s not the actual reality, it can certainly feel like the reality to someone.

  32. NormalPractice*

    OP1, that’s a pretty standard boss joke when meeting a spouse for the first time, and I’ve heard it used regardless of the genders involved. Only you can judge the tone, but most of the time it’s not a serious indication of belief that such permission is needed, wanted, or sought.

    I guess since I’ve heard it used in so many gender configurations that it doesn’t register as sexist to me, but of course with the merest thought about it, it’s clear that the origin of the joke likely was. So if folks wanted to make a stink about it that would be reasonable, but IMO most places I’ve worked had better places to spend limited capital for social change/equal treatment.

  33. Nancy*

    LW1: that’s a pretty common joke that I have heard in multiple situations, regardless of the genders and relationships of the people involved. You can let it go.

    LW3: stop spending so much time on what your coworker is writing on LinkedIn.

    1. Nodramalama*

      I feel like people just handwaving away LW1 are overlooking that the people around LW also bumped on it and clearly did not think it was a standard and normal joke.

      1. DJ*

        So what? Other people had the same misunderstanding as OP.

        The intention of the comment seems clear. “Your spouse is wonderful”

        1. Nodramalama*

          How can you POSSIBLY know what his intention was when you know nothing about this person at all

  34. BellyButton*

    #1 When I have had men say that sort of thing to me or my partner I answer with dripping sweetness “I am so lucky! He even lets me read books!”

    2. JustaTech*

      I once had the extremely strange experience of a woman apologizing to my husband for upsetting me.
      We were on a bus tour of Costa Rica (lovely place, go visit!) where most of the people on the tour were a full generation older than us. At one point we were walking across some suspension bridges in the jungle. I don’t like suspension bridges but I was doing fine until, in the middle of a long bridge over a deep gorge this woman shouted “let’s shake the bridge!”
      I was getting over a cold, so when I called out “please don’t! Let me off first!” I sounded a lot more panicked than I was.
      I got off the bridge at speed, and the guide had a word with Ms Bridge Shaker, who then apologized to my husband. He responded with “Don’t apologize to me, apologize to my wife!” (she did not) and we all agreed that it was the weirdest thing. We chalked it up to her age and personality.

  35. But maybe not*

    LW1: Your feelings are valid. My old boss (“old” meaning both in age and former) commented something similar to my husband multiple times over the course of nearly a decade. One time he even gave “us” a gift card as a thank you for letting me work. It was part of a pattern of (mostly benevolent) sexism – requiring me to walk on the inside of a sidewalk, holding doors, not letting me carry boxes when pregnant, etc. It was annoying but not enough to emotionally labor over correcting it.

  36. theletter*

    #2 – concerns about the current boss aside, I think there’s an overarching reason to look for another job – if leaders from other divisions can commandeer other manager’s direct reports at the discretion of the president with a mere complaint about excluding a socia media platform, without even investigating why those strategies were chosen, then the overall management of the company is either incredible fickle or your own department is ridiculously undervalued.

    I can see why the situation might inspire panic in your manager – but how they handled that panic was very, very uncool, and I agree with advice to alert HR.

    Did you like working for your old boss? If so, maybe reach out to them with a very ‘how are things at the new subsidiary going?’ email.

  37. Jiminy Cricket*

    I have heard bosses say to my spouse, “Thank you so much for sharing her with us!” And I can imagine how that could come out of someone’s mouth as, “Thank you so much for letting her work with us!” But that’s when the mortification should set in immediately, and a caring person would say, “Oh no, I didn’t mean it that way. I mean we’re really lucky to have her.”

  38. Mermaid of the Lunacy*

    #1 is EXACTLY the kind of awkward joke I would make if I was awkwardly meeting someone’s spouse…of any gender. Unless you know more about the boss’s personality that tells you otherwise, I would just consider it an awkward joke and let it go.

    1. Ginger Cat Lady*

      So don’t make those jokes. Jokes are problematic, even if they are “just a joke” or “awkward”. You cannot let racist, misogynistic, or homophobic “jokes” slide.

  39. Jo*

    #1 unless there’s other evidence of misogyny, I wouldn’t take offense. Any job – especially ones that are high pressure or long hours – naturally take time and attention away from the family. To me it just sounds like a throw away comment could apply to either gender.

    1. I Have RBF*

      How about “Thanks for being so patient with the long hours that we have asked of your spouse. I know it has impacted your home life.” That has no implication of “allowing” a spouse to do things, but acknowledges the impact your spouse’s work has on your personal lives.

  40. e271828*

    “‘With over 20 years of experience in education and editing’ (I believe the education part is true, but they have been editing for less than two years and are struggling to reach a professional level of competency.)”

    LW3’s coworker is making “and” do structural work it is not designed for! Load-bearing language should be carefully chosen and correctly deployed, or localized failure, even collapse, can ensue.

    1. Peanut Hamper*

      Do they really, though? Sometimes job descriptions change, sometimes they need to have people lined up for a position that doesn’t exist yet, etc. If you’re not on the inside, you don’t really know that they’re exaggerating.

      I’m not sympathizing with the companies by any means, but I don’t think assuming the worst from the get-go is a productive point of view. Not all companies do this.

      1. Ginger Cat Lady*

        Yes, they do.
        See the post yesterday where the pay range was exaggerated in the ad and they had no intention of paying something in the middle of that range.
        See all the ads that say they are remote but when you get into interviews suddenly it’s only remote 1 day a week, or you must live within 40 miles of the office in some podunk town pop 2300.
        My husband’s current job exaggerated how much they pay for health insurance, and told him it would start “immediately” when they meant “immediately on the first day of the month after you complete 90 days of service” – and he started on the 4th of the month so we had to pay for Cobra for four months.
        Companies exaggerate or flat out LIE often enough that I think people are wise to be skeptical.

        1. Peanut Hamper*

          “often” is not the same as “all the time” though. That was my point.

          And as someone who has hired in the past, positions really do sometimes change between posting the job and hiring someone.

  42. M*

    Reading through the comments here, I think we need to be careful not to dismiss LW 1’s feelings about this. Perhaps it was just an awkward joke with no sexist intentions, but that doesn’t make it right. And it’s kind of irrelevant if people sometimes say the same thing in an opposite-gender context, as historically ingrained imbalances of power bring different weight to those scenarios. The bottom line for me is that someone with professional power over LW 1 made a comment that could be interpreted as sexist, and it made LW 1 uncomfortable. Even if that manager did not intend for the comment to come across that way, he should be made aware of how it landed.

    1. Peanut Hamper*

      Yes, very much this.

      Any comedian knows that they can tell what they think is the funniest joke in their repertoire, but it’s the audience that decides whether or not it’s funny.

      No matter your intentions, if you say something that offends someone, you should apologize.

      1. DJ*

        > No matter your intentions, if you say something that offends someone, you should apologize.

        Nah, depends on context. If I say “I like PB&J sandwiches” to someone and they respond “I’m allergic to peanuts, how rude!”, I’m not going to apologize.

  43. Islandah*

    Number 1 – Awkward comment, but probably they meant well and feel positively about your contribution. It is odd to be on the receiving end of one of these, though:
    Recently, the director of our town senior center thanked me for “letting” my mother (85) volunteer there. I said “Oh, nobody ‘lets’ M do anything — or stops her.”

  44. Jon (no, the other one)*

    Oooh, I am dealing with the same issue as LW #4 but because of a gender transition + complicated family situation that led to me completely changing both my first and last name. I’d be very curious to know if anyone has thoughts on whether the suggestion up there for LW #4 also applies here or if a situation like this needs more explanation? The two names are completely different (think if my birth name was Ashara Dayne and I’ve since changed it to Jon Connington), and I’m worried it’ll just seem like a really weird lie… but this is also an arts nonprofit that has a bunch of queer people working at it, so maybe I’m just underestimating their ability to connect the dots and realize “Ah, Ashara came out as trans and goes by Jon now”.

  45. LW1*

    Thanks to Alison and everyone who replied (I am LW1). Some context people asked about – I haven’t worked with this manager for very long but in every interaction I’ve had with him he has been quite kind, so as far as I know there is no concerning pattern. I will clarify that I am a woman working in a male dominated field where sexism is common thought not from this particular manager that I know of. The people sitting near me who thought it was odd were majority women as well. It may be a case of this person meaning well and we are exhausted from the environment in general and just on alert. Personally I’ve never heard this “joke” before but I hear what you’re all saying and will probably let it go but keep an eye out and try to respond in the moment if anything else happens.

    1. DJ*

      Seems like a reasonable and well handled response.

      FWIW, I think it was intended as a joke, but it isn’t one I’d say. It’s in the same vein of saying “we’re a family” at work, which is not the reality of the situation.

    2. Myrin*

      That sounds very sensible. May it just have been an awkwardly-worded/-received one-off and your relationship continue to be warm and friendly.

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