my employee texts me late at night

by Alison Green on July 30, 2024

A reader writes:

One of my employees texts me at 10:45 pm. I’m wondering how I can firmly but fairly lay down boundaries and let her know it’s not okay or respectful of my free time to message so late.

I answer this question — and three others — over at Inc. today, where I’m revisiting letters that have been buried in the archives here from years ago (and sometimes updating/expanding my answers to them). You can read it here.

Other questions I’m answering there today include:

  • Employees say “I love you”
  • Asking coworkers to stop commenting on my diet
  • Should I write employee evaluations in the third person?
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{ 168 comments }

{ 168 comments… read them below }

  1. Jane Bingley*

    PLEASE stop commenting on what people are eating. I will make an exception for “yum, that looks good!” but that’s about as far as it needs to go. Food is intensely personal, cultural, and medical. It’s way too easy to put your foot in your mouth and so simple to simply say nothing at all.

    1. Peanut Hamper*

      Yep, “that looks good” or “that smells good” is about the limit of it.

      At my last job, I had a couple of good friends that were really into food, and we talked about food all the time and exchanged recipes frequently. But we very rarely talked about what the other person was eating.

    2. Pizza Rat*

      Bingo. Open, polite, curiosity is fine. Food can often be a bridge between cultures and talking about it can help people bond. “That looks/smells good,” is friendly, interested. Commenting on the amount of food? No, just no.

      1. Ellen N.*

        Even open, polite curiosity can be problematic at work.

        My husband used to be a high school teacher. I cook a variety of cuisines. He would bring leftovers for lunch.

        His lunch period was twenty minutes. He often didn’t get a chance to eat due to the questions about his food. He resorted to eating in his car.

    3. Resume please*

      THANK YOU. Not everyone wants intrusive questions. I didn’t have childhood food insecurity, I don’t have an eating disorder – I just want to eat in peace without the extremely weird comments. I’m also lactose-intolerant, which people act as if it’s “lactose allergic” and freak out if I eat one slice of pizza. Stop.

    4. allathian*

      Yeah, this.

      I’m in Finland, and long vacations are standard. Most people (in goverment jobs at least) take 3-5 weeks off in the summer, and banking vacation days to take out later is not unusual. The banked days have to be used up before you retire or switch to the private sector, so it’s not unusual to have people stop working several months before they actually retire. If you switch to another government job you keep your accumulated PTO.

      Anyway, one of my teammates took 3 months off one year. An extended time off for those who aren’t about to retire isn’t particularly common but neither is it completely unheard of. I knew she was on sick leave but most of my coworkers on other teams didn’t. She was already slim when she went on leave, but when she returned, she’d lost some weight. I was just glad to see her again and told her so, but during our coffee breaks lots of coworkers commented on how great she looked and talked about her “obviously refreshing vacation.” She shrugged those off but when a particularly obnoxious coworker on one coffee break asked what her weight loss secret was, she’d had enough. So she pulled off her wig, stared at the jerk, and hissed “Cancer!” and left in tears. Everyone, including the obnoxious jerk, looked mortified as she left. I looked daggers at the jerk as I left the break room. My coworker quit and switched fields completely a few months later.

      I wish people’d stop commenting on other people’s appearance and food choices at work. I mostly WFH, and when I do go to the office I treat myself to lunch with coworkers at one of the dozens of restaurants within easy walking distance of my office. There’s a big mall right next door with 20 or so, with others scattered nearby. Thankfully the people I go to lunch with are all decent so we don’t comment on each other’s food choices or portion sizes. At most, we might say “this is delicious” to someone who’s eating the same thing.

      On my team, people have some food restrictions for various reasons. I’m lactose intolerant, we have several vegetarians/vegans and at least one who has celiac disease, etc. There’s never been any issue with finding a lunch place that can accommodate all of us.

    5. tamarack etc.*

      Indeed. For the OP, though, there’s a need to convey this without getting too confrontational about it or putting their illness out front.

      Myself, my weight / shape has fluctuated quite a bit. I’m lucky in that the general culture around me is to be aware of the inclusion pitfalls of any kind of remark. But when I need to, I find the most helpful retort is something like a non-committal shrug, saying “oh, you know .. bodies…” and/or also, with a smile, something like “you know, what we eat and what our bodies do is such a personal minefield … I’d rather not go into it”.

      Another strategy is to enroll the most sensitive of the colleagues to help change the culture. Like, a private conversation about how too many people comment of other people’s food, and it’s not a helpful thing because no one knows what’s going on with another person. So then when someone makes a remark, in or out of earshot of the OP, there may be a chance the “confederate” may say something to help knock it down.

  2. Peanut Hamper*

    I think if I read “This reviewer believes that Fred…” or “This reviewer believes that you…” in one of my reviews, I would find it really odd. (It’s like people who always refer to themselves in the third person. Really, really weird.)

    Most of the reviews I’ve gotten in different industries have been some variation of “Peanut is really good with Excel” or “Peanut needs to work on not trying to take over the galaxy”. I would be okay with someone writing in the first person. (“I like how Peanut handles data in an efficient manner.”) But “This reviewer believes….”…I might be tempted to ask “are you okay, Reviewer?”

    This is definitely one of those instances where you can just write like you talk, either like you’re talking to the person, or talking about the person.

    1. umami*

      Agreed, I frame the review with the employee as the lead, not myself, so I use the same construction you mentioned. ‘Umami has improved on X, or Umami truly excelled in doing Y’ etc. Putting the reviewer first seems strange to me.

    2. Caramel & Cheddar*

      The “This reviewer believes that Fred…” feels like it’s guidance for how to write a third-person account in some places? I remember years ago a colleague had to write up her version of an incident that had occurred and she kept using the “This reporter…” because she’d been taught explicitly to do that. I agree it reads super weird. I know the perspective is yours, you’re the one who is writing it!

      1. doreen*

        It wouldn’t have seemed entirely strange to me because at my job, everything was written in that sort of stilted way. If I was writing a report about a client, John Jones, he would never be referred to by name in the body of the report – he would always be “the subject” because he was the subject of the report. I would never use “I” . If I wanted to say I visited John Jones at home, I would have written “This writer visited the subject at his residence”.

        The part of “This reviewer believes that Fred” that seems strange to me is mentioning the reviewer at all – at my jobs it would never have been either ” This reviewer believes or “I believe” it would have been “M_ Lastname has improved”

      2. Goldenrod*

        I had a weird boss who wrote my eval in the third person and ALSO used my last name, like it would say: “Ms. [LastName] did a good job with the reports” or whatever.

        I felt it was strangely formal and awkward! But this manager was a very awkward person, so it tracked.

    3. Brain the Brian*

      Yes, it’s very old-school, from the same line of thinking that fed “This reporter saw…” instead of just “I saw…” It was much more common about 50 or 60 years ago, but it’s dropped out of common use now.

      1. Peanut Hamper*

        So it’s an archaic construction. Interesting. But yeah, it’s weird these days.

    4. Turquoisecow*

      Remembering back to my performance evaluations, I don’t remember the boss ever including any “I” or “this reviewer” type statements at all, though they did refer to me in the third person. So it was mostly statements like “(Cow) has made a lot of improvements on TPS reports and now completes them in a timely manner,” or “(Cow) understands all aspects of widget creation and can create them without supervision now,” and not any sort of subjective “I believe Cow is good at her job” type things.

      It made sense to me because while obviously the review is for me, it’s also saved for future reference and was shown to management above my boss as evidence for promotions or raises, so the third person phrasing made sense to me. Also Boss and I discussed the process and then reviewed what we had each written, so it was more like a written record of our conversation for others to read.

      I was surprised to see the response to that question, but I guess it’s just a convention that varies depending on workplace culture or what you’re taught/are comfortable with.

      1. Nocturna*

        I was surprised too, but I think it’s largely because where I work, annual reviews are a key component of promotion reviews (which are a formal process that involves a number of people outside the employee and manager) and are thus also geared towards an audience outside of the manager and direct report. Given that context, having the reports in third person makes sense, because it is expected that they will be read by others, unlike Alison’s framing where they’re primarily only seen by the employee and manager.

      2. Katie*

        I was surprised too. However at my company evaluations are not just shared to the employees and managers but are shared in meetings with a large group.

    5. Orv*

      It can depend on the industry. I got my degree in electrical engineering, and when I took a technical writing course I was taught to write in third person and avoid “I” and “you”.

      1. Rosacolleti*

        #2 it’s very ‘now’ for people to say ‘Love you’ as a farewell even among work colleagues. I hear it quite a bit. It’s jokey. I haven’t heard it used inappropriately.

    6. Clisby*

      Agreed. If the person writing the review said something like “Clisby has been an important resource for newer employees learning about this system”, then it’s clear that’s the reviewer’s opinion. To say “I think Clisby …” or “This reviewer believes Clisby …” just sounds strange to me.

    8. tamarack etc.*

      It also depends a bit on the prompt the OP/manager is writing to. It’s a bit weird when you write under the headline “Please describe the how and to which degree the employee has met professional development goals” and start “You did a good job …”. This is where I’m tempted to write “I believe that Fred did a good job…”

      Then there’s of course the form the employee receives the comments in, where being addressed in the third person can now sound odd.

  3. Jenna Webster*

    LW1, also don’t respond to late night work texts ever. It isn’t always enough to tell them not to do it if they even occasionally get responses from you.

    1. Peanut Hamper*

      In teaching, we call this “extinction”. You just never respond to the behavior you want to see go away. But for it to work, you have to be consistent.

    2. Spiders Everywhere*

      Science has shown that intermittent positive reinforcement causes people to invest the most energy into a behavior – if you randomly reward people for bad behavior it affects their brains like winning a slot machine.

      1. Orv*

        The way I saw it put to someone who was dealing with a stalker was, “if you respond after they’ve sent you 20 messages, you’ve taught them that any time they want a response they need to send at least 20 messages.”

    4. sky404*

      LW1 doesn’t share what the text is about? I work in tech with an on-call rotation. If I get called repeatedly on an issue in off business hours, I make it my managers business. I’m texting and calling. It seems like a great escalation technique.

      1. IndigoBlue*

        Not an on-call situation, but I’m occasionally asked to stay late really in the lab for specific upcoming deadlines.

        I tend to feel that if it’s important enough to make me stay until midnight actively working on it, then it’s important enough that they can take 30 seconds out of their night to field a text message about it.

        1. New Jack Karyn*

          We don’t know that the employee is still at work. Possibly a work-related question occurred to them, and they dashed off a quick text.

    5. Artemesia*

      Turn off sound for anything except the two or three people you would welcome a late night call or text from.

      1. Texts*

        Yes this.

        They may have a good reason to text you at the time — but you don’t need to respond or even read it.

      2. Yellow rainbow*

        I have permanently muted some colleagues who text outside work hours. I’m not required as part of my job to take outside work hours calls – so I just mute them.

        People who have abused the privilege of being on my allow list get removed. I’m lucky in that I could always do this when I was on call.

        If your job requires that you be on call – there needs to be penalties for people abusing that. I’m loving that right to disconnect laws are expanding.

    6. PurpleShark*

      I tell everyone they can absolutely text me late but don’t expect a reply until the next morning- my ringer is silent or on Do Not Disturb. I do that because if they have a thought they are welcome to jot it down but I am clear about when you can expect me to respond. Mind you I do not text anyone after 8 unless they have asked me to do so. I am also the same with email. At my job with a school emails from families and students come well after hours and on the weekend. I am very clear that that is family and me time so you will not hear from me until the next workday. Those are my boundaries so I would let the coworker know this after the first text. I get up way early (4 am) so if she pulled that after 10 pm mess I would text her back at 4 just to be onery letting her know “I just saw this!”.

    7. TheGoodLife*

      I’ve started to use delay send texts for this reason. It’s great for birthdays (especially since I remember the day before, but not the day of). So you can reply back, but have it delay until the next morning. I love it.

    8. Frosty*

      I know on iPhones (and I’m sure other models) there are different types of “do not disturb” functions you can personalize. LW1 could create a “off call work” mode that includes those employees that text at all hours – everyone else can get through except them.

      Alternatively, you can set a blanket “do not disturb” and then only allow a handful of personal contacts that you’d always want to hear from no matter the time.

      I’m really diligent and regimented about notifications (along with setting very strict filters for my email) so that I’m only getting information I want, when I want it. It can take some time to set it up, but you can roll it out as you go and once it’s set up, there is little work to maintain it.

  4. Jenna Webster*

    Our organization has a policy that performance reviews be written in the 1st person as if you are talking to them – which you will be, when you sit down with them to go over the review.

    1. Rainy*

      I think that’s a good policy–in my org we definitely write them like HR is the audience for some reason.

  5. Lady Danbury*

    For letter 3, I prefer to remove myself altogether and simply state “Fred has made improvements in his accuracy identifying bird songs.” It should be obvious that I’m the person who believes that Fred has made improvements because I’m the one writing the review. If I need to convey a shared or third party opinion, I might phrase it as something like “The management team has noted Fred’s significant improvements in accuracy” or “Fred’s improvement in accuracy has not gone unnoticed by the management team.”

    1. sometimeswhy*

      This is how I do it too. Our performance evaluations are in the form of once-a-year justifications to the powers that be (but some of us also try to make them meaningful.)

    2. Peanut Hamper*

      Yep, this is one of the first things we teach when teaching writing. You don’t have to say “I think…” You’re the one that wrote, so it’s obvious that it’s you that thinks it.

    3. SometimesCharlotte*

      I have never had or written an evaluation that wasn’t like this – even when writing self-evaluations, I don’t use I. Similar to writing a resume…

    4. iglwif*

      This is how all reviews I’ve ever given OR received have been written.

      At the last place I worked, the employee’s self-evaluation was in the first person and the manager’s comments were occasionally in the first person, but mostly just like “iglwif did a great job of organizing event X. She needs to learn to say no to more things.”

      Unless you’re bringing in third-party comments, you don’t need to identify the perspective you’re writing from because it’s already clear.

  6. Fluffy Fish*

    #3 – maybe I’m the weird one I simply word things as “Fred’s work on x was impressive because a,b,c” I think its pretty obvious that I as the review writing the evaluation think that.

  7. Not The Earliest Bird*

    I put my work phone on DND from 7 PM to 7 AM. Because I’m not a rocket surgeon and don’t do life changing work. Coworkers can email me or text me during these hours, but it’s going to stay unread. Caveat that if there is a true emergency like a natural disaster, I will be available.

    1. SansaStark*

      I will always cackle out loud to “rocket surgeon”. Also, same. I take this even more seriously now that I’m a boss. Your time off is your time OFF.

      1. Orv*

        Once I met someone whose job in the Navy had been to repair intercontinental ballistic missiles. And I realized afterwards that I had, in fact, just met a rocket surgeon.

    2. NobodyHasTimeForThis*

      If I had a work phone that would be fine.

      I have my personal phone on DND except for specific numbers but as the teens end up being out later and later, I have felt the need to shrink the blackout time. If my kiddo is in an accident on their way home from work at midnight I want to be reachable.

    3. Nonanon*

      …not my one brain cell trying to figure out how to put my phone on Dungeons and Dragons mode

    4. Casey*

      I am genuinely responsible for the structural integrity of rockets and I still tell my directs not to text me late at night — either they think something is about to blow up and they need to call the on-call pager directly, or it’s not at the level of imminent explosion and it can wait til tomorrow!

  8. Caramel & Cheddar*

    #1, I’d also add something about how you won’t respond after that time either.

    #2, I don’t think it’s necessarily appropriate to say “I love you” in most of these contexts, but I do think there’s a very casualization of “I love you” (or more specifically just “love you!”) in the last couple of decades that I don’t think is necessarily unique to super young employees. I’m an elder millennial and I’ve been hearing this stuff from folks around my age for years now. It might feel weird to hear and you’re probably doing them a favour telling them to cut it out, but I think it’s also important to remember that when you hear it, it really just means “You’re awesome” or “I think you’re great”, not “I genuinely love you.”

    1. Mangofan*

      I dunno, I’m also an elder millennial and I have not heard this in common use, especially not in a workplace setting. (Perhaps there is geographic variation? I’m in the US, in a large metro area in CA.) It’s helpful to keep in mind that it isn’t literally intended to say “I genuinely love you,” but I would say it’s unambiguously inappropriate to use in a workplace setting, and so OP would definitely be doing these folks a favor in telling them to stop using it there.

      1. SimonTheGreyWarden*

        I’m an xennial and yeah, I haven’t heard this widely. I have one work-friend I say that to whenever I have to reach out to her, but we used to work in the office together and she genuinely is a good friend. While we are at different workplaces now we still overlap sometimes and I close out text messages to her with thanks, love ya. She’s the only one I would do it to, though; my partner and I don’t even say love you when we are at work (again, unless we are texting; texting is appropriate in my workspace) because it feels weird to sign off a phone call in the office that way.

    3. PhyllisB*

      My daughter is 43, and she and her co-workers constantly end their phone calls with “Love you!!” Or someone they know very well “Love you, girl!!” (To other women obviously.)
      To me it sounded strange, but I chalked it up to their line of work. (Addiction Recovery.) I had no idea other people did this.

    4. NobodyHasTimeForThis*

      My teenager says it a lot as a way to sign off. But I think he would not use it in a work situation.

    5. Kay*

      I’m mid 40’s and have heard the “I love you/love you” plenty – I’m pretty sure I’ve used it myself. It isn’t unheard of in the workplace for me, and I think it is more about the personality, tone and situation than the age of the user. I’m western US and work with a variety of industries across the country.

    7. Unkempt Flatware*

      Yep. 38 year old millennial and I hear this from close friend-coworkers. I’ve never heard it with clients or bosses. I once worked in a kitchen at a resort where we were a mix of ages, races, and backgrounds, and they all said I love you and hugged each other after every shift.

    8. el l*

      Agree, it doesn’t mean real love. But I think OP is on good ground to tell them to cut it out. On the grounds of, “Let’s just all agree not to go there in this environment.”

    9. londonedit*

      Yeah, I (ancient millennial in London) have definitely heard ‘love you!!’ being used among friends. I probably wouldn’t use it with workmates, but it’s not a huge stretch for me to imagine workplace situations where a group of close colleagues might say it to each other. It’s said in a much more breezy/excitable tone than the sort of ‘I love you’ you’d use with an actual romantic partner, it’s more like ‘love yoooooou!’.

      There’s a DJ called Scott Mills who does the afternoon show on BBC Radio 2, an extremely mainstream radio station that’s generally listened to by middle-aged people, and his signature sign-off whenever he’s speaking to a listener on the phone is ‘love you byeeeeee!’. His loyal listeners all know this and they’ll sign off their calls to him with ‘Thanks Scott, love you byeeeeeee!’ – personally I think it’s great, all these stereotypically repressed British people ringing in to the radio and going ‘love you byeeeeeee!’ at the end of the conversation. Would be great if it became the norm!

  9. Keyboard Cowboy*

    FWIW, I write peer feedback in the third person (“I think that Fred…”) because Fred’s manager reads all the feedbacks and compiles them into a packet for Fred to look at, at my company. Guess it all depends on context.

        1. Peanut Hamper*

          It’s the main clause, rather than the subordinate one, so yep, first-person.

  10. Prorata*

    1. Late night texts – I tell my staff that for anything other than “I’m running late”, “Aliens ate my Buick”, “Kiddo has the gleep and I won’t be in tomorrow”, or, if they insist, “I QUIT!!!”, I would much prefer they send via email rather than text, and that if they insist on texting outside normal-ish business hours, I’ll start sending them pictures of my Emotional-support Honey Badger at 3am. Repeatedly.

    1. Somehow I Manage*

      The phrase, “This meeting could have been an email…” could also be used for “This text could have been an email….”

      All of the things you cite are perfect examples of someone needing you to know the information sooner than later. The thing is texts are more linear communication. If it is something urgent, I’d expect a text. But if you’re sending me something I need to consider at work at some point in the near future, email is better because we can more easily set up boundaries around work email.

    2. Alpaca Bag*

      “Kiddo has the gleep” – thanks for this; I needed to giggle today! Maybe I need an Emotional-support Honey Badger…

  11. Brain the Brian*

    Could the advice around “I love you” have shifted since AAM first answered this question? I find it increasingly common as a casual phrase in the workplace now, and especially post-pandemic it feels nearly ubiquitous in a lot of settings — even professional ones. I feel like it would have seemed very out of place ten years ago, but perhaps less so now.

    2. Kyle*

      I’m Gen Z working in a law office – I would be mortified if I accidentally ended an interaction with “I love you” and could never imagine doing it on purpose!

      1. Ellis Bell*

        This recently happened to me with a student. We’d been working together all week, one on one (he needed a scribe for exams) and the last day of this, was his last day of high school. So, it was a big deal and I wished him farewell and told him I hoped he’d have a lovely summer and that he’d earned it. He responded in kind, and said thank you and you too, but as he was actually leaving the room, it was like his brain went into ‘leaving the house and speaking to family’ mode and said: “Love you! Bye!” The funniest part was his face almost immediately crinkled into an ‘oh shit’ expression, so I just laughed and waved and gave him a thumbs up. It was like he didn’t have the right sign off expression for the occasion.

      2. Caramel & Cheddar*

        Law offices seem amongst the last truly formal workplaces, so I’d probably die of shock if I heard someone say “I love you” on purpose in that context.

    4. Mangofan*

      No, I have never heard anyone use this phrase outside of close personal relationships. Curious where you are based geographically, and in what industry, to the extent you feel comfortable sharing.

      2. Kay*

        Not the poster, but I hear it often enough – US western side, based in a number of major metros over the years and work with industries ranging from politics, non profit, financial, etc. I think it is more common in the collaborative or high stress environments.

    5. doreen*

      I’ve heard it but it’s not easy to describe the context. It’s when someone does something for another person that’s unexpected but very appreciated – like maybe one person gets a coffee for the other person whose too busy to get their own. And it’s said in a particular tone – best way I can think of to describe it is a combination of joking and an exaggerated ” I love your hair” . But that doesn’t seem to be what’s described in the letter.

      2. Kay*

        Yes! It is also admiration. As in – you somehow managed to fix that glitch and get the reports we need for this meeting we are walking into – OMG I love you. Shut down that obnoxious piece of work in the department next door – Oh I love you. You managed to convinced the company to pay an obscene amount of money to send you to some beautiful remote resort with clients for a week? Gawd I love you.

        1. Jaydee*

          I don’t hear it as a conversation sign-off, but have definitely heard and used it in the way you describe. It’s an expression of appreciation and/or admiration, often exaggerated or hyperbolic, usually for the other person going out of their way to do something, solving a problem that I’ve created, or fixing something that has been disproportionately annoying to me.

        2. Freya*

          To forestall any potential weirdness (I have known too many boundary-pushing people who would take certain phrases in ways that I Do Not Want), I use “best [name] EVER!” in much the same situation

      3. MissCoco*

        Yes in this way I definitely hear it and have used it! In the context I’ve heard, it’s a phrase I could replace with “you are the best” or another expression of gratitude or admiration.

        1. SimonTheGreyWarden*

          I tend to just use “you’re amazing” because saying “I love you” just feels so inappropriate.

    6. Statler von Waldorf*

      I just asked my boss what he would do if I told him I love him. He told me he’d send me home because obviously I would have to be drunk to say that at the office.

      It’s definitely not a thing in my blue-collar world.

    7. Lady Danbury*

      Elder millennial here. I don’t think I’ve ever heard I love you in a work context, except maybe between people who have a close personal relationship outside of work. Definitely not as a casual greeting/goodbye between colleagues.

    8. allathian*

      Cultural differences are so interesting! I’ve never heard the equvalent in my language phrase used at work and would be mortified if I did, because here the phrase’s pretty much reserved for very close relationships, generally intimate partners, babies, and toddlers. It would feel weird if my generally undemonstrative 15 year old said it, even if I hope that he still loves me. I love my friends, but I’d never say so out loud. It’s just not done in my circles.

      The closest equivalent I can think of that in my Teams convos using the heart emoji is nearly as common as the thumb up.

  12. Jeanine*

    Ok I haven’t seen the “I love you” thing at work but I do get a lot of heart emojies to my comments in teams which is weird enough since I don’t even know them. I say I love you to my family and friends and that’s as far as THAT goes. I don’t love my co workers, no. Just no.

    1. Somehow I Manage*

      I think the heart emoji in response to text or Teams messages is odd. The heart reaction on text (iPhone) is one I use versus the thumbs up, both because it is the first one and because I tend to lean toward, “I appreciate your message and have fully taken it in” where thumbs up is more “acknowledged.”

      1. Happy*

        I’m having a hard time parsing your comment. You think the emoji is odd but you still use it?

        1. Caramel & Cheddar*

          For me someone using one of the default options in the menu for reactions (not replies) to a text or Teams message is different from actively choosing that same emoji as an actual reply. There is, I don’t know, plausible deniability (?) in the fact that the default menus have limited choices so a heart is usually the only way to express that you “like” something, vs if you reply you have access to the full slate of emoji in your keyboard. (You can choose from the full slate in the Teams reaction too, of course, but a lot of people don’t click through to the other options.) Hearts-as-replies don’t necessarily bother me, but I’m definitely unbothered by hearts-as-reactions.

    2. tabloidtained*

      Heart emojis have strayed from pure “love,” in my opinion. On Teams, it’s like a warmer/more enthusiastic alternative to the thumbs up. Thumbs up means, “acknowledged,” and the heart emoji means, “that’s great/that’s appreciated.”

      1. Orv*

        I think in particular it’s come to mean “I love this comment,” not “I love you.”

      3. the og perfect beasts*

        Yeah, my team uses it a lot and it’s just a warm like. It took me aback the first time someone did it to me but I’m used to it now. The CEO did it to one of my messages the other day. And while it’s definitely not a problem when people don’t use it, I always notice the people who never do, and tend to assume they like to keep things cooler or a bit more stand-offish between coworkers. I don’t judge or dislike them for that! I just note it as part of my impression of them.

    3. Annie*

      Yeah, the heart reaction to me is “awesome, love that” as compared to the thumb’s up being just “got it”.

      1. Galloping Gargoyles*

        That’s how I use it as do my colleagues. I wonder if the use of the heart emoji in Teams or similar systems (if those have that option) has led to the use of “I love you” in business situations. It is not common in my field but I did have a colleague who has become a close friend say it recently at the end of a conference.

    4. Sademoji*

      Younger (neurodivergent) Gen X’er here. I struggle with emoji reactions, anything with hearts of “love” implications (face with heart eyes, etc.) make me uncomfortable. Yes, I grew up with Elvira’s “ok I love you bye bye” and friends in school used to say “love you” but that all stopped after college. No one said that in grad school, no one said that at work. Kind of like hugging – friends hugged all the time in school-age brackets, but that did not happen in a work environment. The rules were just different. One co-worker does the reach out and touch your arm thing at work and it takes all my willpower to not recoil from her.

      I kind of have gotten ok with LinkedIn’s heart-in-hand reaction.

      But then again, our European colleagues (especially those in Italy) use kissing emojis seemingly like we use the thumbs up. I have no idea what to do with that.

      Maybe it is in the US we are so obsessed with innuendo or something?

      1. callmeheavenly*

        from an ace perspective…the majority of people in the US that I encounter seem to be super obsessed with innuendo. which is rollmyeyesoutofmyHEAD annoying sometimes.

    5. Having a Scrummy Week*

      Oh, we’re a “heart reaction” culture at my work. Everyone does it.

    6. not nice, don't care*

      Folks at my workplace seem to use the heart emoji without concern. No one thinks they are in love with anyone else, just that they feel the topic warrants more than a bland thumbs up.

      1. Jeanine*

        Well I never use it because I just find it too weird. Thumbs up works well for everything.

        1. orsen*

          Gonna have to big shrug here, because some people find thumbs up emoji/reaction to be passive-aggressive. Different strokes, etc, etc.

          1. Lab Snep*

            My friends and I use the thumbs up emoji as pure sarcasm so when people use it in a business sense my neurodivergent brain does an oh no.

    7. fpg*

      My boss does this all the time and I don’t like it. Way too familiar. Pick another emoji please.

  13. Somehow I Manage*

    Regarding letter 2, over the years, I’ve become more comfortable with saying “I love you” to people in my life. For a variety of reasons, I feel like it is important to let them know that. For instance, I was just at a conference and saw one of my closest friends. We were departing, gave one other a big hug and both said, “I love you.” I had a coworker with whom I was very close who passed away nearly two years ago, and while I told him that I loved him when I visited him in the hospital, I really wish I had told him before that. But he knew…

    All of that said, I think that especially in a work setting, “I love you” isn’t appropriate because professionalism sort of dictates that relationships are different. While coworkers can be close, an expression of love while leaving a meeting or leaving for the day reads oddly. I think in addressing it, I’d lean more on the perception that someone else might have of someone when they hear them say it. You don’t want people thinking you’re unprofessional. You don’t want people getting the wrong idea of some interpersonal relationship. Maybe there is genuine love between some members of the team. But at work, and in front of others who may not have a full understanding, is not the time to express that.

  14. mayflower*

    The other thing I’ve tried with success re: comments on food or bodies is to say, “you know, people have lots of reasons for eating the way they do including medical conditions and cultural traditions and you can’t always tell that by looking at a person.” And then follow up with something like Alison suggested about wanting to keep that stuff out of your conversations. I like this because you don’t have to disclose your medical stuff but you can put it out there that the person making the comments may be (probably is) putting their foot in their mouth.

    For repeat offenders I get pretty stern and ask them not to make those comments to me anymore.

  15. Hedgehug*

    LW1 does the employee expect an answer? They might be texting late because that’s when they thought of something, but does not necessarily expect an answer at that time. Just don’t reply to it!

    1. Goldie*

      Hmmm…a late night text might wake me up or distract me. Even if the person didn’t intend to bother, they are so why not let them know?
      Email is different. Although I try not to send email at night or on the weekends do that I don’t distract others from not thinking about work

    2. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      So, that’s when it could have been an email. A text is going to ping your phone and you’ll want to check it — especially late at night. Then you’re being asked to read and prioritize whether you’ll respond. For something that doesn’t need a response.

      Just because the messages button is easier to push than creating an email doesn’t mean that your late night brainstorm needs to be someone else’s interruption.

      1. abca*

        A text is going to ping your phone? Doesn’t everyone have do not disturb setup by now? This is probably really culturally different, but I literally do not know one person who does not have that. It is extremely common to get texts at hours of the day that you do not want to be disturbed. And you can have rules, like DND for some people but not others.
        If you find it important not to ping people at night you should definitely not send any emails during times that people might possibly be asleep because many phones show email notifications by default too and you would of course not want to inadvertently disturb anyone who does not want to setup their DND preferences.
        I do think it’s different for work, of course you can tell your direct reports not to text (or email) you after a certain time, but that’s a preference, not something people should just obviously know.

        1. Evan Þ*

          Not everyone has it; my dad complained a couple weeks ago about late-night texts keeping him up.

      2. Texts*

        But your management of your phone is not my problem.

        The phone doesn’t have to ping. Just set it to do not disturb or silent or TURN IT OFF.

        Problem solved.

        1. Virtual Assistant who Really Exists*

          But what if they, for example, have a sick family member or a kid who’s traveling or any other number of reasons why they don’t want to put their phone on do not disturb? It’s entirely reasonable for a manager to tell her employees not to text after a certain hour, and the employees should respect that rule regardless of how they personally feel about late night texts. Honor other people’s boundaries, full stop.

          1. SimonTheGreyWarden*

            This. I don’t use DND; I have spread out family in different time zones. I would never text my boss late unless my kid had a serious health concern and I would not be in the next day (and we’re dealing with some serious health stuff with my son so this isn’t entirely hypothetical). If something happens, I want my elderly parents or in-laws to be able to reach me. Heck, my house is a wierd old rabbet-warren of a place and hubs, partner, and I text each other bc you can’t hear even if you call out to someone from some places in the house. It’s fine to just…tell the employee. They’re the one committing the faux pas anyway.

        2. the og perfect beasts*

          I use my phone as an alarm, so turning it off isn’t ideal, and there have been times when I would have needed to respond to a child or elderly relative in the middle of the night but not so much an employee. Why is it a big ask to either save that thought until the morning or write an email?

    3. doreen*

      It might not have anything to do with whether the employee expects an answer at that time. The letter doesn’t say whether it was a work phone or a personal one – but at my last job , I wasn’t able to turn either of them off and even if a 10:45 pm text doesn’t require an immediate answer , I still have to look at it to know that. If it’s ” I’m sick and won’t be in tomorrow” , I’ll be OK with it because I prefer that not getting a call because they were up until 4am. If it’s to tell me they want to take next Friday off, I’m probably going to be annoyed.

  16. Sunflower*

    There are employees of all ages in my office and no-one ever says I love you. I wouldn’t thank anything of it between friends at the workplace, but think it’s strange when you’re not close. And downright uncomfortable to and from someone from another company!

    What’s wrong with a simple thank you or saying “you’re great/the best for helping out.” In my opinion, the word “love” shouldn’t be tossed around as a business buzzword. Sure I’ve been known to say I love your homemade cookies or I love your dress or even “Thank you for catching this mistake and saving my butt. I love you!” but it’s just odd otherwise.

    Or maybe I’m just an out of touch old fogey.

    2. Tomato Pants*

      There’s nothing wrong with those other responses, but there’s nothing wrong with the casual “love you” either – as you’ve neatly demonstrated by saying you even use it yourself!

  17. dulcinea47*

    Oh no, the person being reviewed is not the audience, despite the fact that they should be. Evaluations are written in third person for the management/admin who has to read and approve every single person but does not actually know the person or what they do.

    1. Troubadour*

      That’s going to depend on the place. Where I work, the review is a combination of reviewing the last year’s goals and setting the upcoming year’s goals and it really is primarily between the line manager and the employee. HR I think theoretically is supposed to read them all so they have an overview of what professional development people want (so if there are common themes across the organisation they can coordinate something), but in practice I think half the time the documents don’t actually reach them. They’re filed and could be pulled if there was ever any dispute, but that’s about it.

      1. allathian*

        Yes, same thing at my org. And I certainly write my self-evaluation/responses in the first person. That said, I work mainly in Finnish and here it’s entirely appropriate to use the passive voice in evals, in that as weird as “goals A, B, and C were achieved but goal D was postponed because the others took more time than expected” sounds in English, the Finnish equivalent is maybe a little stilted but completely appropriate. Everyone knows that the person being evaluated did the work.

  18. Minnie*

    2.) The way that younger generations (younger millennials and down) express appreciation has certainly shifted.

    I have observed that expressions using the word “love” seem to translate to, “I appreciate what you bring to [situation/thing].”

    I’m extremely hesitant to flag this generational shift in language as “unprofessional”. I think, like all things, context is vital to determining the appropriateness of using the term or phrase. Intergenerational workplaces are tricky to navigate, and I think we can be too quick to categorize the shift in workplace culture that inevitably comes with a new generation entering the workforce as “weird”.

    “Weird”, in my opinion, should be reserved for predatory, unsafe, or discriminatory behavior. In which case, we should explicitly name and address that behavior immediately.

    This instance, as described in the letter, just seems like a shift in language that the LW is uncomfortable with. My recommendation would be to set a personal expectation with those folks that it isn’t a term that you want directed at you, and to caution that not everyone is in tune with their definition of that word. But, I wouldn’t discourage them from using the term among themselves, or attribute this shift to inexperience or youth. You’re fighting against the generational change in tide.

    1. Orv*

      What word do they use for people they actually love, as in feel an incredibly strong bond with? Because it sounds like they’ve redefined “love” as “like” or “appreciate.”

      2. not nice, don't care*

        Hopefully they are able to tell the difference between workplace/coworkers and non-work/non-coworkers.
        So far I have not witnessed my coworkers who use heart emojis at work having relationship problems due to an inability to parse the difference.

    2. Mangofan*

      I am pretty comfortable flagging this as inappropriate for workplace communication, at least outside a certain generation. It seems well worth noting that many people over a certain age will be weirded out by their colleagues telling them they love them. (“I love that you did X” / “I love how you did Y” is a different story.)

      For context, I am in my late 30s in a major metro area in the US.

    3. Ginger Cat Lady*

      LOTS of people are going to be uncomfortable with this shift in language, and IMO professionalism is in part about avoiding making people you work with (colleagues, clients, vendors) uncomfortable. I think it’s a very valid concern that these employees could offend or cause problems with others by saying “I love you” to people who don’t use the word so casually. If OP just says “don’t direct it at me” that doesn’t change that concern.
      And part of being young and new to the workforce is adapting from the way you talk casually with friends to the way you speak professionally at work.

    4. Kay*

      I think it is very much know your audience. I’m mid 40’s and have heard this term used by those older and younger than me in the workplace for years, but it is always with people who I know aren’t going to find it weird and it is going to be dependent on the situation.

      I may have found it odd when I first heard it, but it has been so long I can’t even recall.

    5. Bast*

      As a younger millennial (early 30s), I’d agree with those who say this is a “know your audience” thing. I’ve worked in offices where everyone is more formal than not, where anything strictly not business related or “how was your weekend” type of talk was off the table, and I’ve worked at offices where people worked together for many years and would go out together for drinks after, attended each other’s parties and weddings, etc. In the latter group, I can think of some people who would talk like this, but they tended to be close friends outside of work already, and it tended to be just part of the way they talked ie: everybody was “chica” or “my love.” This probably wouldn’t fly at some of the more formal offices I’ve worked at, but they wouldn’t have been happy working there anyway and it would not have been a good culture fit. I’m not huge into expressing myself that way in a work environment, but I’ve also never been as close to my coworkers as some of them are to each other.

    6. Gumby*

      “Weird”, in my opinion, should be reserved for predatory, unsafe, or discriminatory behavior. In which case, we should explicitly name and address that behavior immediately.

      Weird just means unusual / strange / unexpected. It doesn’t even have an inherent negative connotation for me. It could depending on tone of voice and context. But it can also be a value-free “oh, that’s weird I was sure I sent that email” or “how weird, I’ve never seen that widget in blue before.” Or even “keep Austin weird” which is less value-neutral and more outright positive. I’d consider weird too mild of a word for something legitimately predatory, unsafe, or discriminatory.

      As for saying “I love you” regularly in a work context – thankfully that is not something I’ve encountered in any of the workplaces I’ve been in. I like my co-workers but I’m just not that close to them. At most I could live with a throwaway “you absolute rock start you fixed the air conditioning I love you so much right now.”

    7. londonedit*

      I’m an ancient millennial (43) and I’ve definitely seen a shift in the way my friends and peers use ‘love’ – I think we are more likely to say ‘Oh, love that!’ or ‘Love you!’ in a casual way. But it absolutely is a know-your-audience thing. I get on well with my immediate colleagues at work, but we don’t have the sort of relationship where I’d say ‘Love you!’ at work. It’s not a huge stretch for me to imagine a working environment where people would, though.

      It’s probably a bit like swearing – my team at work definitely does swear around each other (not at each other, but things like ‘FFS, this agent is driving me mad’ or ‘These cover designs are total shit’ or whatever). That’s all fine and I’m perfectly comfortable with it. I would not, however, swear in a meeting with the department head, or especially not in a meeting with an author. It’s all about context and about knowing the appropriate behaviour for the situation. Similarly with ‘Love you!’ – if I was in an environment where it was normal to say that to colleagues, I still wouldn’t say it to an author, because that’s a completely different relationship.

      1. the og perfect beasts*

        Yeah, this. In a meeting of my immediate team only, I can say something like ‘yeah sorry, we’re still fucking about with the template’ and it’s fine. But I wouldn’t say that in the company meeting and I definitely wouldn’t say that to a supplier. I imagine ‘love you’ would work similarly, though we don’t really say that. I suppose I could picture an ‘omg I love you for this’ if someone had done a massive favour or pulled off a piece of work that would make everyone’s lives easier.

  19. Dust Bunny*

    OMG STFU about your coworkers’ food!

    Unless it a) smells or looks particularly good and you’re commenting briefly on that or b) actually belongs to you, just zip it.

  20. Coffee Protein Drink*

    What a change from the boss I had who expected answers to the emails he sent at 3:00 in the morning.

  21. these are my friends I love them*

    Allison is being a little heavy handed with the coworkers of LW 2. If someone told me to stop telling my friends, with whom I also work, that I love them it would strike me as overstepping. It’s fine for a colleague to ask me to not tell them “I love you” specifically, but other people are not experts on everyone’s relationships, be they friendships, colleague-ships that are becoming friends, or otherwise.

    1. doreen*

      I wouldn’t tell someone how to talk to their peers, who may also be their friends. Although even a work friend might be uncomfortable both with you saying that and with asking you to stop. But the junior co-worker to someone more senior ( like a company partner) ? Someone should tell the junior co-worker it’s inappropriate even if they are friends.

      1. Little Lady, Big Stick*

        But in a workplace environment, your friends/peers are fellow colleagues first, not your friends first. So “love” is not appropriate in that context, either.

        1. Peanut Hamper*

          Yes, exactly. Even it’s a spousal relationship or parent/child relationship. At work, the work relationship comes first (unless there is some emergency situation).

      2. SemiAnon*

        I work at the same employer as my husband. I love him. I do not tell him I love him when I’m at work, because that would be inappropriate.

        1. tamarack etc.*

          Well, yeah, but me telling a particular colleague with whom I have an easy-going, sometimes exuberant communication style and am totally not in love with (or vice versa), *and* both of us know exactly where we stand (including both of us being very securely partnered), *and* no one who can overhear us is in any danger of misunderstanding, and who has just sorted out a thorny problem I was worried about, “I LOVE YOU!” … is pretty unproblematic.
          I’m pretty sure I’ve heard it at a team picnic as a form to complement the person who brought a spectacular dish. (And not even to mention some of the theatre and music folks, where a clever, expressive style is often the norm – and frankly, effort is more profitably put into tamping down or pushing out the ones who are exuberantly *negative* (eg. bullies and assholes) than trying to keep theatre people from communicating exapansively.)
          It’s really a proof-in-the-pudding situation. If someone needs to ask, it wasn’t quite 100% ok.

    2. Salsa Verde*

      I don’t think it’s overstepping to tell you to not to say “I love you” at work. No matter the relationship, at work you are coworkers. I would expect people to act more professionally at work than outside of work, even if with the same people. I’d imagine you tell your friends you love them often, I don’t think it’s diminishing that love to not say it at work. So no one needs to be an expert on your relationship, because they know you are coworkers, and that’s all they need to know to know that it’s most probably inappropriate to tell a coworker you love them.

      I would be so uncomfortable with anyone at work saying “I love you” to me.

  22. Dadjokesareforeveryone*

    I just want to say that I love each and every one of you commenters.

    Seriously, I would feel very uncomfortable if a coworker said that to me, but would not be comfortable saying so. Please nip this in the bud LW.

  23. Spicy Tuna*

    I am a super thin person and when I worked in an office, anything I put in my mouth was fair game. Eating something perceived as “healthy”? “Oh, that’s how you stay so thin!”. Eating something decadent? “How do you eat like that and stay so thin?”

    I get that in our culture, complaining that people are commenting because you’re thin amps up the volume on the chorus of tiny violins, but really, just keep your mouth shut about what people are eating unless you know it’s rancid and you’re warning them.

    1. Cinnamon Stick*

      It really shouldn’t bring up the violins and I wish it didn’t. Nobody needs this BS. There are so many factors that determine health that we should just leave other people’s alone unless they decide to share.

    2. Hroethvitnir*

      Honestly, people getting harassed for being slim is also a huge problem and does not deserve ridicule.

      There *are* people who try to act like slim people are exactly as hard done by as fat people, and, uh… no.

      But venting your insecurity about your own body on someone just trying to live their life is not OK!

      And body type notwithstanding, the obsession with categorising other’s food as good/bad *and commenting about it* is so unhealthy. The fact I can’t eat grilled chicken and green beans for lunch without someone commenting every. time. (at various sizes!) makes me want to never eat in front of anyone. I really don’t want to be scrutinised, whether that’s positive or negative.

  24. Knot Another Darn Rewrite*

    I really wish people would stop commenting on the bodies of others. I recall my favorite boss (she was amazing, I miss her so much) visiting from out of state and telling me how good I looked. My immediate response was, “Thanks! I feel terrible.” due to a yet undiscovered allergy.

    Unless there is a hygiene issue (ie food in teeth, rucked up shirt, fuzz in hair, peculiar odor, etc), what should be said is nothing.

    1. Lab Snep*

      All the times I lost a lot of weight fast were after traumatic experiences.

      Like depression, or not being able to afford food.

      I turn on the flat effect and say things like “The poverty diet” or “I have been sick for two years” etc and people tend to leave me alone.

      But I hate people commenting on what I’m eating in general. Unless to tell me it looks or smells great.

    2. londonedit*

      Yeah, a few years ago I had a health thing that manifested itself in me losing quite a lot of weight, and it also came with some other worrying and unpleasant symptoms. Until I got a diagnosis, it was all quite scary, and I had no idea what was going on. Several people said ‘Whoa, you look great! You’ve lost weight!!’ and I had to say ‘Yes, I really haven’t meant to, I don’t know what’s happening’. Now that the health issue is fixed and I’ve put all the weight back on plus some more, no one ever says I look great anymore, and it’s a little depressing. It’s sad that ‘thin’ is the only thing that equals ‘looking good’ for some people.

  25. Ellis Bell*

    With a big caveat that OP3 might not be up for this advice, as it involves divulging some information and being a little vulnerable. I’d consider saying: “You couldn’t know this, but my diets actually doctor ordered and it’s a depressing/boring topic” or “It’s not obvious of course, but this is actually a medical diet for not great reasons. It is delicious though!” I think the “don’t comment on my body or diet” scripts are actually superior, clearer and completely fair for OP to utilise if they feel able. I think there are also people who would need much softer language than tagging on a please and some variation of ‘you couldn’t have known’ rather than ‘you should have known’. Obviously, though, they should have known.

  26. BellaStella*

    OP1 I have muted all comms on my phone from work as I do not have a work paid phone. Also I used DnD from 9pm to 7am. My employer as in manager does this and I have muted even her as it is not work critical more of the “look at me at this event” stuff and I do not care. Especially at 2am when she is in another time zone traveling for work. In my case it is whatsapp and I am really close to getting a dumb phone for this reason. I am putting together a request for policies to cover this at my work.

  27. Honey cocoa*

    I have noticed more and more Instagram content people ending their posts with “Love You, Bye!” To their hundreds of thousands of followers, and it just feels like too much and fake to me. But I am old. I’m sure they love having followers, but just a routine, impersonal “Love You” feels weird. I would guess a lot of younger people are hearing this there.

    1. Rainy*

      I mean, I would also tell people I loved them if I was making a ton of money off them!

  28. Despachito*

    I think that the “I love you” thing is only acceptable if ALL the participants are on the same page (ie for ALL of them it is just a sign of appreciation).

    Otherwise, it is quite risky because it can be easily misinterpreted. If a female coworker told me “I love you”, it would feel weird, but if a male coworker did this, I would be wondering whether he is harassing me. I even do not put heart signs to guys’ comments of FB for fear ot that confusion.

    I think it will be a good service if the OP points this out to the person doing it.

  29. Good Enough For Government Work*

    We’re an informal office (extremely informal compared to the US offices I read about on here), but the only time I have busted out the L word in the office is in cases of extreme stress/arse saving, cf ‘I bloody love you right now!’

    I’m on extremely good/friendly terms with the coworkers I say it to, and in two years I have probably said it two or three times. As a regular thing? Nah.

  30. Not your typical admin*

    The “I love you” reminds me of my 5 year old and her friends, who always say that to each other when saying good bye. Maybe it’s a generational thing, but I would find it odd in a work setting.

  31. SetYourBoundaries*

    Huh. Most people I know expect people to manage when they choose to receive asynchronous communications. There is no inherent expectation that a text sent at 11pm (or 2am) is read at 11pm (or 2am). Same for email, IMs, etc. The general expectation I’ve seen both professionally and personally is that folks should send at their convenience but understand the recipient will respond at theirs. Phone calls are the exception since they typically/traditionally come with a loud ring.

    If you don’t want to see/read tests at 11pm, don’t look/read. Dim your alerts on Slack or other IM systems. Don’t check your work emails. This is all entirely in your control.

    If the other person is upset you don’t respond at 11pm, that’s a different story and an actualproblem, but sending stuff at their convenience should be normal.

  32. Raida*

    You let them know that you won’t respond to messages outside of [defined hours].
    You clarify that in an emergency absolutely they should *call*, but not any just bog standard work.
    Also, you define what is a work channel of communication and what isn’t – is your phone number generally for text chats about work? Or is it only for reasons x,y,z?
    Is email preferred? Teams? Slack?

Comments are closed.