my boss says we can’t call out sick any sooner than 2 hours before our shift

by Alison Green on October 10, 2024

A reader writes:

I work in retail. Today, a coworker was out, which prompted my boss to go over the policy for calling out sick. She explained that employees have to call out two hours before their shift starts, which seemed reasonable. However, she also said that we shouldn’t call out more than two hours early, which seemed odd to me. Her explanation was that her phone would be off and she wouldn’t receive calls after business hours. I asked if it would be better to send a text or email the night before, so she’d still see the message in the morning. She said no, we should wait until two hours before our shift. This is because “you might not feel well at 8 or 9 at night, but you could wake up feeling fine.” After she said this, another employee echoed, “Two hours is the standard policy everywhere.”

This is my first time working for a large company as opposed to a small business, so I have to ask, is this actually a standard policy? To me, it seems patronizing to assume employees can’t figure out which illnesses will pass overnight and which ones won’t, especially if we’re talking about a fever, or something contagious. I’m not often ill, so this has never come up for me at my current job, but at my previous jobs, it was never an issue to call or text the night before. Thoughts?

No, that’s a ridiculous policy and it’s not standard.

You’re an adult. You’re capable of knowing the night before if you’re sick enough that you likely  won’t be able to go to work the next day — and there will be times when you’re sick enough that you need to sleep as long as possible without setting an alarm for two hours before your shift. If you’re up vomiting half the night, it’s not reasonable to expect you to set an alarm for a few hours later to call out sick rather than just emailing sooner.

That said, you work in retail and retail is notorious for punitive policies that are rooted in mistrust of employees and which infantilize them and make their lives as hard as possible. I suspect your coworker who claimed that two hours is the standard everywhere has only worked in similarly crappy places.

Fortunately you can schedule emails and texts in advance to send at a later specific time, which would be a reasonable response to this.

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{ 156 comments }

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  1. DancinProf*

    I’m actually wondering if this manager misunderstood a policy somewhere along the way and is now trying to reverse engineer a rationale for it. My husband works a customer-facing role in the hospitality industry and his employer requires a *minimum* of two hours’ notice for callouts. That’s still rather punitive and doesn’t take account of last-minute emergencies, but it makes more sense.

    1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

      This. This is the way. I would bet dollars to donuts this is the item in the handbook.

    2. TheBunny*

      I worked for a security company for years and they have this policy.

      True…It doesn’t account for last minute emergencies…but it does at least set (or try to) a standard that you not wait until the last minute for EVERY time you call off, as it has a ripple effect making it mean others have to stay late to cover, a replacement can’t be found as it’s last minute so people end up working double shifts, and assorted other fun things.

    4. kiki*

      Yeah, the 2 hours for calling out sick policy is pretty standard. The idea that it’s precise time rather than a minimum is also oddly common. I do think this why having policies with no explanations for them causes issues. It’s better for everyone to be able to call out sick the night before!

    5. Honoria Lucasta*

      Yes, this. I was a shift leader at a QSR in the early years of grad school and our expectation was that we would have a couple hours notice if employees called out (which would give us time to scramble to find coverage).

    6. pally*

      Yeah- wouldn’t a manager want as much time as possible to deal with an employee not coming to work for the next shift? It might take longer than 2 hours to find someone to cover.

      I’d much rather know the night before that someone wasn’t gonna make it in. That much more time to plan what to do for coverage.

      1. JM60*

        This manager might be trying to discourage people from calling out sick. If someone can text or email out sick the night before, then they can get extra sleep the following morning (which they perhaps should do to take care of themselves when they’re sick). But if someone has to call in exactly 2 hours before their shift, it puts someone in a crappy situation where they have to be awake 2 hours before their shift nonetheless. Someone who is mildly sick might decide that since they’re up anyways, they’ll try to soldier through a shift at work.

        This seems like a punitive policy to me.

        Of note, if a manager allowed people to “call out” sick via text or email, someone could still sleep in by scheduling the message to be sent ahead of time.

        1. WheresMyPen*

          When I worked in retail, I wasn’t always awake 2 hours before my shift even when I wasn’t sick. If I started work at 9am, I’d set my alarm for 7.30.

          1. Chirpy*

            Same. I don’t get up that early (just not a morning person, and I also tend to start things and then run late if I think I have time, so my best solution is to get up as late as possible if I want to be on time.)

            I also can’t call in early even if I try – the managers won’t answer the phone until the store opens, and I’m not going to risk them not getting my message if I leave one on the machine. So I’m pretty much stuck with calling in right at 8am, even when I am absolutely sure the night before (covid, vomiting, etc) that I won’t be in.

    7. Sneaky Squirrel*

      I’d love to believe that it was a misunderstanding of a more reasonable policy, but I’ve worked in retail that had similar policies before too and for the exact same reason given – that you might be feeling better by the time your shift comes around.

      Except then they’re stuck in a situation where they’re scrambling for coverage or understaffed because now their cashier is out and they only have 2 hours to figure it out.

    8. goddessoftransitory*

      This sounds right. I can understand shift work not being terribly down with people calling in five minutes before they’re supposed to clock in, but two hours is pretty standard.

      That said, it’s not always possible–a couple weeks ago I had some intestinal unpleasantness come on me very suddenly and only an hour before I was supposed to go in to work. When I called in they were absolutely fine with it, but I work for reasonable people who get “I really can’t risk being far from a bathroom” isn’t the ideal way to try to answer phones.

      1. TheBunny*

        Right. But at least where I worked, the policy wasn’t to punish those with last minute emergencies. I once had someone call in 10 minutes before the start of their shift. The reason? Their car had been towed that am and they were waiting for a ride to go pick it up. They definitely knew they weren’t coming to work and certainly could have given more notice.

      2. Rara Avis*

        My husband tore his meniscus (for the second time) while getting ready for work. Called into the school where he worked with pretty short notice, they wanted him to come in until they could round up a sub. As his next call was to me for a ride to the ER, and he couldn’t walk or drive without a functional knee, he was pretty annoyed with the school.

        1. Ex-Teacher*

          >they wanted him to come in until they could round up a sub.

          That’s because school administrators are typically most interested in whatever they can do to avoid being personally inconvenienced. They never seem to care about the teacher’s needs, they only want to not have to do hard work themselves.

          You can see why I’ve chosen my username.

    9. commensally*

      It sounds like the two hours maximum isn’t actually policy, it’s just that if you try to call more than two hours before opening nobody will answer. My work basically has that issue – you’re meant to call the staff line to call out at least two hours before your shift starts, but between closing and opening, nobody answers that line and there’s no voicemail or texting.

      Luckily we are encouraged to call out the night before rather than get our coworkers sick, and our current manager is OK with getting work-related texts on her private line in off-hours, so it doesn’t usually come up. But if you get sick on a Sunday while we’re closed and you work the next morning shift and Monday’s manager doesn’t hand out their personal cell number to all staff, you’re setting an alarm for opening time Monday so you can call out.

      1. Paint N Drip*

        My household has the same ‘no one answers’ issue, husband starts work EARLY usually 4am – if he knows he’s going to be missing a shift, he has to wait until hours after he should have already been working until somoene might pick up. He’s very conscientious and this frustrates him to no end, and it inevitably creates chaos (obviously!! such a bad policy)

    10. marvin*

      I think the policy is probably intended to be annoying to discourage people from calling out sick at all. When I worked in retail, the policy was that you always had to call in an absence on the day (no email or text option). This was so that the manager could pressure you to come in anyway.

      1. Paint N Drip*

        Totally agree – the personal pressure some managers apply (or the anxiety of having to disappoint a supervisor, or whatever) is a built-in discouragement. Plus the Schroedinger’s call-out o’clock which apparently must be 120 minutes before your shift or all is lost? I can see a young or beaten-down employee waking up 1h45m before their shift feeling like death but coming in because they missed the magical window

    11. Hyaline*

      Actually, I doubt it–this feels like a policy designed to do what the manager said, avoiding “false alarms” where you feel better, but also to keep people from calling in “sick” ahead of time–say, they know they want to go to an event but are scheduled to work, so call in “sick” the night before. It’s a stupid, stupid policy, and obviously wouldn’t do much to stop people from calling in for dubious reasons anyway, especially now that we all have cell phones instead of being tied to calling from a landline, but I’ve seen this rationale before.

      1. Judy*

        Definitely. I worked at a place where tons of people started calling in the night before and were pretty obvious they just didn’t want to set the alarm (we suspect most were vacation days in disguise) to call in. So in came the two-hour rule. A few bad apples always ruin it for the rest.

  2. chameleonghoul*

    It seems like this manager has misunderstood the “standard” policy… all of the retail-esque jobs I’ve had had a policy that you must call out AT LEAST two hours before your shift, or it would count as an improper call off.

    1. Bast*

      Yes, I found it weird for this reason as well. In fact, it can’t have been that long ago that a letter was published here with a manager discussing people calling in too last minute, and how to address that. Here, you have people KNOWING they likely can’t come to work later, and WANTING to call out earlier, only to be told they can’t. Most places appreciate knowing as soon as you do that you won’t be in, and appreciate having extra time to find coverage in such jobs where coverage is needed when one calls out.

  3. Pastor Petty Labelle*

    OP you work in retail, more than 2 hours gives them more time to find coverage.

    Your boss just doesn’t want to have her phone on in off hours and be bothered by work. But you know, sometimes being boss means you get bothered by work in off hours.

    1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

      “you call in at 8 or 9 but wake up feeling fine” and? What? you want your hours back? OK. Call the person who took them an ask. That’s grasping at straws. The manager has no idea why it’s policy. I believe, with the majority, that it is a misinterpretation of policy manager is trying to find a reason for it. If it were truly policy, it would have been explained to manager and she would share that.

    2. Not Tom, Just Petty*

      -Once again I replied to your comment because it hit like, this is the way. And I was scrolling back up and spotted your name. OF COURSE! Have a great day!

        1. Madre del becchino*

          What do you have when Pastor Petty Labelle and Not Tom, Just Petty get together to commiserate about lousy work conditions? A Petty Pity Party!

    3. Boof*

      Even bosses should be allowed to have protected time off – but that does mean should have a way for employees to leave them a message for them to deal with when they’re back on, not that everyone else just has to wait around for them whether or not they’re on or off!!

    4. Bitte Meddler*

      And if the manager really is fine dealing with callouts at exactly two hours pre-shift, then why would they care if the voice mail / email / text came in six hours pre-shift? If they don’t turn their phone on or check email until two hours prior, then there is no functional difference.

    5. Ally McBeal*

      I have “Do Not Disturb” on my phone between 10pm-6:30am. It’s that easy. Manager needs to adjust their phone settings, not hamstring employees like this. What if someone’s in the hospital getting tests done within that 2-hour window?

      1. Everything Bagel*

        Yeah, the manager makes no sense here. She said that she does have her phone off at night, so she’s probably not getting bothered by these messages anyway. She seems to be clinging to the idea that you might change your mind by morning and want to come in anyway, but I don’t understand why that’s a problem for this manager.

  4. Bilateralrope*

    I work in a job where if someone calls out sick, our manager must find someone to cover for them. So the policy for calling out sick is to let the manager know as soon as you can. Preferably with a phone call.

    I know of times when the manager has known weeks in advance about the employee needing to take sick leave for a hospital appointment. At the other extreme, I’ve had a manager call me with “{coworker} went to the ER instead of her shift, can you cover it ?”

  5. MicroManagered*

    I worked plenty of retail, food service, and call center jobs where the “call out 2 hours before your shift” thing was pretty standard, but it means you have to give AT LEAST two hours’ notice so they can try to call someone else to come in. Not that you have to WAIT until exactly 2 hours before your shift. Your manager is ridiculous and plain incorrect, OP.

    TIL you can schedule a text to send later. Off to google how to do that!!

    2. Michelle*

      On Android, long press the send button on your text message. It should pop up a menu to schedule your text. You may need to type something in the message first to make the send button appear.

  6. Dawn*

    So, slight observation here; this has been a fairly standard policy specifically in every retail and call centre environment I’ve ever worked in. Nowhere else.

    It is ridiculous, you’re correct. But the goal was always to discourage employees from ever actually calling out.

    1. Orv*

      A friend worked a call center job where you couldn’t request leave more than a day before, which made it impossible to schedule things like doctor’s appointments that might have a long lead time. They quit shortly after seeing a coworker leave the office on a stretcher, then get fired for not completing their shift.

      1. Dawn*

        Yeah, I worked in one call centre where I had pneumonia so bad it put me out of work for a week; when I got back (still sick, mind you, just not actually dying,) they immediately asked me how I was going to make up the hours I’d missed.

          1. Dawn*

            Oh, after they pulled that I walked out and didn’t go back.

            Not the most professional thing I’ve ever done, but I was in my early 20s, sick, medicated, and crabby after a week of misery and I couldn’t deal with that on top of everything else.

      2. MigraineMonth*

        I had a friend who was stuck in retail hell happily tell me that she’d applied for a much better job… at a call center.

        I felt bad for raining on her parade, but she showed me the job ad, and it specified not only that there was zero PTO, it said you would be fired if you missed or were late for any shift in the 90-day probation period regardless of excuse. It seemed more illegal than the start of a great career it promised.

        1. Orv*

          This is pretty standard for call centers. Since it’s low-skilled work they know they can just use people up and then replace them. Most of the people who take those jobs are seriously desperate for a paycheck.

        2. Joana*

          Yeah, I’ve worked in two call centers. One was actually a really good one, paid well above the minimum wage at the time, let us hang up on rude customers, generous discounts for their products (which were stuff you actually wanted).

          The other? My first ambulance ride was working there. It was supposed to be a scent-free environment but they refused to enforce it and I couldn’t breathe when someone started spraying perfume on themselves right in the middle of the floor. They didn’t care and continued to refuse to enforce the policy. They once made openers be logged-in to the system fifteen minutes early because some people were clocking in late. The place has since closed; it was a third party contractor and their biggest contract pulled out after it merged with another company. I do not miss it and I laugh every time I pass their old building.

      3. Raktajino*

        I worked for a call center where a coworker was sick in the waste basket right in front of the manager, who told him he was fine and to keep working.

        That call center changed their policy after a tuberculosis (!!) outbreak.

    2. Not Tom, Just Petty*

      Is this because if you can’t find coverage you have to go in? I’ve read enough reddit, not always right, and AAM to believe this is true, but seriously. That’s insane.

      1. Dawn*

        No it’s just another way to discourage people from ever calling in at all. I’m not necessarily saying it works, but the theory is that if people have to get up anyway they’ll be more likely to come in.

        1. carrot cake*

          And I’m just saying it’s not standard in US retail; presumably, that’s where the LW is. “Centre” denotes UK.

          1. Dawn*

            I understand that but I don’t understand why you felt the need to point it out to me when I’m just relating my personal experience. Obviously different people may have different experiences than mine.

            1. Happy*

              They weren’t pointing it out just to you – comments are for the benefit of other readers (and the LW), as well.

            2. linger*

              There’s some variation in Canadian (and also Australian) spellings; neither adheres uniformly to “British” or “American” preferences. (Using scare quotes because only about a third of spelling variables with different national preferences show truly opposed absolute standards; though -re/-er is one of those.)
              It’s not clear whether internal variation in corpus data for Australia or Canada comes from variation in individual writer choice, variation in editor preferences, variation in software use, or variation in institutionally-imposed choices.
              New Zealand, on the other hand, follows “British” spellings; the only “American” forms seen are those also widely adopted in the UK. (Namely: jail has replaced gaol; institutional inquiries appear alongside personal enquiries; and disk, program appear in computing domains.)
              Indian spellings generally prefer “British” forms.
              Nepalese English does not have any institutionally-applied standards observable in corpus data, with spelling variation observed even within the same newspaper. (The likely cause is that English textbooks used in Nepal come from both India and America, so most individuals are exposed to a mix of spellings from childhood.)

    4. Bast*

      I’ve worked both retail and food service, where calling out was a no-no unless you were in the hospital. But *sigh* if you DID happen to have to call out for any reason, they always pushed you to please phone in as soon as you knew you weren’t coming in, so they could try to find coverage. (or better yet, call around and then call them — “Yes, I am sick and can’t make it in, but I called Lindsay who will cover my shift tonight.”) That’s not to say you wouldn’t be given a hard time or asked, “…Well, are you SURE? How sick is sick? Could you at least do 4 hours, maybe, please?” but I can guarantee if you were going to call out, the manager would rather deal with an 8 am callout for a 4 pm closing shift than have you wait until 2 or 3 to call out.

        1. Bast*

          I am not saying it isn’t, my experience just happens to be the opposite. Most of my managers would have gotten upset, “Why did you wait then?” if I waited to call out, because they’d have little to no time to find coverage. Most were reasonable enough, however, to understand that by me calling in early, I was giving them the chance to find someone else to cover. I understand, however, that not all managers or business owners are reasonable, and that there are many insane policies regarding calling out/getting sick that would baffle any sane person. The food service job was the worst because she seemed to take it as a personal affront when someone got sick, and would threaten our jobs if we called out without having a back up lined up. It didn’t matter how much notice you gave her, she was angry and ready to do battle.

          1. Dawn*

            Yeah, for sure. Both industries tend to attract less than reasonable people to management roles; partly because they’re promoted up out of the rank and file, usually for things that have nothing to do with management ability, and partly because the best people typically don’t stay in those jobs.

            I can say with some confidence that very few of my managers at any of those jobs were reasonable, and the ones who were didn’t last.

      2. Justme, The OG*

        Not even retail, but I once called into work because my kid had the flu and my supervisor asked if I was sure I couldn’t come in. Yeah, I’m sure. I’m a single parent and I was going to stay home with my elementary aged kid while she got better.

  7. Coverage Associate*

    I have been up ill in the middle of the night, not so ill I needed to go to the emergency room, but I knew I would need testing and treatment in the morning, and emailed my doctor at that time, and work. If I can commit to very expensive US medical care at 3am, I can commit to skipping a day at the office. Also, coming from a medical family, you never bother your doctor unless you know you need to.

    Caveat: though my email put in the subject that it could wait until morning, I have since learned that at least my doctor has her phone settings to sound when she receives non spam at night, so I wouldn’t do this again.

    1. TM*

      Eh, it’s really not up to you to manage how your doctor deals with her email alerts, unless she or the practice have expressed a specific preference. Email is supposed to be an *asynchronous* mode of communication – while it’s generally reliable and very quick to deliver these days, it’s not actually designed to be a real-time messaging system.

      Unless there is some explicit policy saying otherwise, there should be no expectation that a business-related email will be actioned outside business hours (sure, an auto-response to say the message has been received and indicating the typical response time is a standard courtesy). For anyone who is not on-call or expected to respond to emails out of hours, that’s what do not disturb settings are for on the phone (and they can be customised so that communications from specific contacts will bypass the DND).

  8. Galloping possum*

    Absolutely not standard policy everywhere. Generally, most employers want to know as far ahead of time as possible that you aren’t coming in so they can make necessary arrangements.

    1. ferrina*

      It’s been common in the coverage-based positions I had, but as another commenter noted, the expectation was at least two hours in advance so they could find coverage. Not exactly two hours on the dot.

  9. JJ*

    Boss says you have to call out two hours before your shift starts and you shouldn’t call out more than two hours early. So, by that logic, you have to call exactly at two hours before your shift. Nobody is that precise, let alone when you’re sick, so it’s a misunderstood policy, intentionally or not.

    2. Irish Teacher.*

      That was my thought too. I tend to take things literally anyway, so this would have me thinking, “how close to say 7am do I have to call before a 9am start?”

      I assume it doesn’t have to be on the dot of say 7 (or whatever the time is) but how much leeway either way is allowed. And if it’s because her phone would be off, does she switch it on exactly two hours before the shift or should I give her another 5 or 10 minutes to be sure? How many additional minutes would run into telling her too late after the “window”?

      1. GenX, PhD, Enters the Chat*

        This is like expecting hundreds of employees to clock in, on a time clock, between 7:55 and 8:05 pm. Can’t clock in too early! But also don’t be late!!

    3. ferrina*

      It sounds like a Monty Python sketch:

      “Thou shalt call out at 2 hours before the shift. Not 1 hours and 59 minutes, not 2 hours and 2 minutes. Thou shalt not call at 2 hours and 1 minute unless you hover over the send button for sixty seconds. 2 hour and 5 minutes is RIGHT OUT.”

    4. Chewy*

      Yeah boss sounds kind of dumb or punitive (or both).

      The employee who chimed in also sounds dumb (or brainwashed by bad work environments. or both).

    1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      It was just added! Hit the plus to the left of your typing box, like you would do to add a picture, and one of the options is “send later” – you might have to scroll down, there’s a lot of options there, I edited the option list to move it up where I could see it easier.

    2. Strive to Excel*

      The newest iOS (18) has a send later feature. Older models technically can send a message later but you have to fiddle around with the automation feature and it can vary by model.

      1. Nonsense*

        Meanwhile, androids have been able to schedule messages for at least a decade. It’s such a good feature. Mind-boggling that Apple only just added it.

          1. Ev*

            Long-press on the “send message” button next to your text. That should bring up the scheduling options.

            1. Brrr*

              I just tried that and it didn’t work but then I saw the four square icon to the left of my text (beside the attach photo button), tried that and it brings up all kinds of options including schedule message! So different Android phones have different ways to access it I guess.

      2. Indolent Libertine*

        I was just reading about how to do this through the “automation” feature – my iPhone is terminal at iOS 16 – and the nuclear launch code protocol sounds simpler!

  11. TheBunny*

    So…a minimum of 2 hours is pretty standard in positions that require you (you being the manager or team) to find coverage (retail, security, etc) as it gives the replacement employee time to also get to the worksite.

    But usually managers are happy when notice is given more than 2 hours as it gives even more time to find that coverage.

    I wonder if the manager misunderstood the assignment here?

    1. m*

      this is what I was going to say — I’m the manager of a retail store, have been for years at multiple companies, and the policy has always been to please give us *at least* two hours notice when you can (i.e., we don’t expect two hours notice if you open)… but if someone is able to give me more notice, I appreciate that! it’s actually better! this sounds like someone who doesn’t know how to manage/misunderstood the written policy to me

  12. Marcie*

    In Massachusetts (state law), sick time can be used for doctor’s visits. Those are often booked in advance and I know it is best practice to schedule them outside of your working hours but that is not always possible especially with a the rotating schedule of retail. So you should call out 2 hours before when you could be in the middle of an appointment?!

    1. CorgiDoc*

      Also especially for some types of specialist appointments where you wait months for an appointment and are told “Monday, October 29 at 8:15am, take it or leave it”

  13. Nicosloanica*

    My old boss used to have a policy that you had to call and reach someone the morning you were off, you couldn’t just leave a message, which was doubly annoying. The last thing I want to do if I’m sick is wake up earlier than usual and call around to various supervisors. She claimed it was a safety issue, like otherwise how would she know we’d been murdered in our beds or whatever. I did not stay at that job very long.

    1. ChattyDelle*

      My last job (I’ve retired) was the same – we HAD to speak to a manager. No voice mail, no text. There was a call out list of managers, in order that we were to try to call until we reached someone. No idea why. just to make it more difficult to call out? (my managers were actually very good. do I don’t know why there was this policy)

      1. Nicosloanica*

        The funny thing is it must have also been pretty annoying for the *managers,* having to field these calls at 7 AM from people who might not even be their direct reports. And it didn’t really solve the issue of having someone, somewhere be unaware that I was out.

    2. ferrina*

      It’s not a safety issue. It’s ensuring that a supervisor is aware and doesn’t miss the message. It basically removes the obligation for the supervisor to check their voicemail. Which might make sense, depending on the work environment- for example, if there are variable shifts and a supervisor is on their day off, they won’t want to check messages just to see if anyone is sick that day.

      It’s kind of telling that your manager claimed it was “safety”

      1. Bast*

        It’s still kind of weird though because it leaves a lot of room for miscommunication. If the manager list goes: Ned, Cersei, Robert, and neither Ned nor Cersei answer so you call Robert, but Robert is not the on duty manager that day so therefore doesn’t even see Ned and Cersei, maybe he forgets to communicate that and now the manager on duty actually has no clue you called out.

      2. JM60*

        It would still require that the manager take phone calls on their day off, so I don’t think it even makes things much easier for the supervisor on their day off.

    3. TheBunny*

      If I had to guess, it eliminates the “I called but no one answered and didn’t think to leave a message” people. You either did or didn’t speak to someone.

      It’s annoying but considering I’ve had people mad at me for not returning a call from just a missed call log, I can fathom it.

    4. MigraineMonth*

      It’s so sweet that your workplace cared about whether or not you were murdered. Only on days you worked shifts for them, I notice; I guess it’s okay if you get murdered a different day.

  14. Ellis Bell*

    This is actually really similar to the policy at my school for teaching staff; except we only get a half hour window to call in. I think it’s bananas, and what possible parallels there could be to retail escapes me. So, the Deputy Headteacher in charge of coverage turns his phone on at around 6.30am. You need to let him know if you’re off sick before 7am. It’s actually a pretty massive school and during flu season there could be legions of us off sick. At 7am he starts calling the supply agencies for cover staff. We also need to call on the day we return after being sick to say we *will* be in, and no longer need cover. As well as calling in to let him know we are still sick every day in the interim.

    1. Irish Teacher.*

      That does sound bananapants. Our school is pretty small (around 300 students) but it has a bigger staff than you would expect for that number due to…highest number of resource hours in the country (and not per capita; like we literally have more resource hours overall than schools three times our size!), but we haven’t been given detailed instructions for calling in beyond contacting the school before school starts.

      Of course, in Ireland, you don’t get a paid sub for an uncertified sick day anyway. What happens is that each of us has 4 hours a week that we have to be available for stuff like that, so it’s just a matter of the deputy principal assigning the classes. (Generally, you end up having to work maybe one or two of those hours in a week, though we are now 6 weeks into the school year and so far, I have had to do two! I suspect I’ll pay for this later in the school year!)

      But yeah, we can just text him any time and let him know. Or e-mail him, I guess.

      1. Ellis Bell*

        Yeah, we have around 1500 students. We also have a far bigger staff than nearby schools of comparable size, because as well as teaching staff, each year group has a non-teaching team of pastoral staff (responsible for on call emergencies and dealing with out of class incidents), then there are the TAs, who are the biggest department in school and who are often responsible for supervision; so they need cover too. Every teacher working in the school can be called on to cover lessons (and we have quite a few teachers who don’t do anything else but cover) but there’s no way of knowing how many external people we’re going to need until you know how many are off sick on a given day. I think sometimes he accepts longer term notice, like when people are “signed off” as long term sick, but for general sickness, nope.

    2. TheBunny*

      The only reason I can see for this is that people being out requires a reasonably large coordinated effort…that gets derailed if every 5 minutes he has to say “kidding…2 more call offs” etc.

  15. Lacey*

    This reminds me of the retail job where we had to clock in at least 2 minutes before our shift, but also not more than 3.

    I get it, they didn’t want to pay extra, but hitting that limited window was stressful.

    However, I’ve never had a job that wouldn’t let me call off more than 2 hours ahead of time if I was sick. Not even in retail.

    1. Bilateralrope*

      My work just corrects our timesheet to our scheduled hours, unless we also fill in the notes field to say that we worked longer hours. So we clock in as soon as we arrive when we arrive early.

    2. ferrina*

      I worked somewhere where the timeclock always rounded to the nearest quarter hour. So if your shift started at 7, you could clock in at 7:07 and not get dinged. Likewise, if you were clocking out for lunch, you always waited until it was 12:08, not 12:07.

      It was super annoying, because everyone knew what the hack was. The diligent people would clock in a few minutes early, but there were several people that would work the system to get paid for 48 minutes per day that they didn’t work. And that’s not including the time that they would slowly meander down the hall and chat with their buddies before actually reaching their station.

    3. Bitte Meddler*

      Ooh, yeah, I had that job once. Opening shift and 30 people are lined up in the breakroom in front of the only timeclock in the building to punch in within the two minute window.

      When I first started working there, you had to key your employee number into the timeclock. It was a clusterfudge because nervous people tend to type the wrong thing and then 29 other people start yelling at them.

      About a year in, they got a timeclock where you inserted a time card. So you’d get to work early enough to get let in by the manager (off the clock), walk to the back of the enormous warehouse store (off the clock), put your things away in your locker (off the clock), go grab your timecard from the wall-mounted thingy next to the clock, and stand in line (off the clock).

      We employees decided on our own that Best Practice was to clock in (push your card into the clock until the clock made a “ka-thunk” noise) and step aside still holding your card. The few seconds it takes to put the card back in its proper slot on the wall thingy would add up such that the last few people in line would clock in “late”.

      So we’d end up lining up twice: Once to clock in and then a second time to put our cards up.

      Effing retail.

  16. Formerly Retailed*

    One of my favorite* memories of retail was being scheduled to open at 7 a.m. and being sick as a dog, and spending 30 minutes repeatedly calling starting at 6:30 waiting for a manager to show up/unlock the doors/get set up and then finally answer the phone. I think someone finally picked up at 6:57.

    * deep sarcasm

  17. Coffee Time*

    As someone who used to manage a lot of part-time employees, this is insane to me?? Even if this is the official policy, why would the manager want to enforce it?? I would beg my staff to notify me as soon as they were feeling sick. If you tell me you’re not feeling well the night before, it allows me to try to adjust the plans for tomorrow ahead of time. Then, if it turns out you can actually come in the next day, now we’re fully staffed even though I planned for a skeleton crew! Woo!

    1. MaxPower*

      Yes, I’ve been in that same situation. I’ve told my employees that I’d rather they tell me if they think there is a chance they might call out tomorrow, because I can start the process of finding a replacement. I made calls to other employees saying, “it looks like we might have a shift to cover tomorrow from 8-2. Would you be able to cover it? I won’t know for sure until early tomorrow morning, but I’ll text you”.
      I had staff who were more willing to cover a shift if it was presented like that then if I just called them at 6 am asking them to come in. I think everyone prefers to have the early heads-up that ends up being unneeded rather than the last minute scramble.

  18. Your credit's fine Mr Torrance*

    I don’t understand the logic – wouldn’t the manager want as much time as possible to deal with finding a replacement or adjusting the coverage in some way?

    1. constant_craving*

      The logic is almost certainly that it will discourage people from calling out. Factual or not, that seems to be the intent.

      1. Nonsense*

        Yeah, retail operates on a whole separate set of completely messed up standards. How dare employees be humans who have basic needs?

        1. Former Retail Lifer*

          Ah, yes. In retail, they tell you not to come in when you’re sick, but then make calling off incredibly difficult and then require you to cover your shift and get a doctor’s note.

    2. Spooky*

      Retail tends to treat its employees as if they’re shifty kids who are looking to skive off work at any opportunity.

  19. Former Retail Lifer*

    I worked retail for 20+ years at more companies than I can to count. The policy is ALWAYS to call off a MINIMUM of two hours before your shift, not a maximum of two hours before your shift. She needs to go back and re-read the employee handbook.

  20. Abogado Avocado*

    This is ridiculous. If I understand this correctly, suppose you have a major emergency where you enter the hospital the night before with the understanding that you’ll be there some days, but you can only call out two hours before your shift. Never mind if you’re in surgery or under sedation? What a really, really stupid policy made by people who do not live in the real world.

  21. GreenDoor*

    Once, I went to the doctor for chronic stomach pain and was informed I needed to report to the hospital for emergency surgery now. If I’d’ve waited until two hours before my shift, I’d be right in the middle of surgery or recovering from some pretty heavy drugs.

    Also, I have kids. I can’t tell you the number of times we’ve been *just* about to walk out the door for work/daycare/school and they’ve spontaneously vomited. That’s less than two hours before my shift start.

    This is an idiotic policy that in no way applies to how real life can sometimes go when it comes to illnesses.

    1. Polly Hedron*

      You needed to request surgery without anesthesia and with a sanitized phone in the OR. [/s]

  22. Decidedly Me*

    I specifically ask my people to tell me the night before if they think they might be out the next day – that way I can start prepping for their potentially absence, they don’t have to wake up early to tell me before their shift if they still don’t feel well, and if they show up – great!

  23. Blue Pen*

    I just want to say that I hate retail, and that I firmly believe the global citizenry would be so much nicer to one another if everyone had to work at least one retail/food service/hospitality position in their lifetime.

    1. I went to school with only 1 Jennifer*

      YES! I’ve been saying for decades that we need to have mandatory national service and it needs to be in thankless work like retail or janitorial. Just one year between HS and college would satisfy me.

  24. UpstateDownstate*

    I worked in HR for a retail & CPG company and it was the worst ever. I felt so terrible for all of the part-time employees that worked there and had to deal with petty drama, bonkers policies, and just terrible coworkers. All of the policies were trash LOL, that’s all from me!

  25. Caz*

    I had someone join my (office-based) team after working retail all her life and one of her questions on starting was how close to the start of her shift she had to wait to call out…because her previous experience was always between 2 and 4 hours. I told her in no uncertain terms to *call when she knew she wouldn’t be in* and that I’d treat her like an adult! Yes my phone will be switched off, this is literally what voicemail is for, please call me when you’re awake (yes even if that is 2am while you’re throwing up) then go back to bed and try to feel better! She couldn’t quite believe her luck. I was horrified that she’d been treated like that previously. Different industries do things differently!

  26. Spooky*

    Also – if you call out overnight and then feel better in the morning… you can just call back in!!

    1. TheBunny*

      You really can’t though. Unless your shift hasn’t been covered, schedules have already been arranged and your planned missed hours have been promised to someone else.

      If you call off and your shift is covered, you stay off because it’s not fair to the people who rearranged their lives to cover.

  27. HonorBox*

    I agree that a manager deserves to have their own “off” time, but they’re in management and there are additional aspects of that job that come with the title and paycheck. And I agree with others that they’re very likely misunderstanding the policy. Why they’d not want MORE time than less time to find someone to take a shift is beyond me.

    In this situation, I think I’d suggest LW talk to someone else in management, preferably a level above this manager. Explain that while you can understand that you want to minimize callouts from people who might just need a good night’s sleep, expecting someone to call no more than 2 hours before their shift and to not text or email is putting people in a really difficult spot. As stated above, someone who is sick may not be in the right position or frame of mind to call exactly 2 hours before their shift. If someone calls out and then feels better the next day, the company isn’t out anything because the employee isn’t being paid anyway. So what’s the harm in being accommodating and understanding?

    1. Former Retail Lifer*

      My employees can text me that they’re calling off. My phone goes on do not disturb at 10PM. They know they can text me whenever and I’ll see it as soon as I wake up.

  28. Looper*

    I work in retail and your manager is nuts. Knowing ASAP makes finding shift coverage is significantly easier the more lead time you have. If someone tells me the night before they can’t make their closing shift the next night, I have 24 hours to find coverage. No one wants to be called in with 2 hours notice, and usually will decline the shift.

  29. Katie*

    So if/when my kids are in the hospital do I need to call everyday to say I am going to be out even though I know I am going to be out the rest of the week because the hospital totally may let my kids out of the hospital after being in the ICU the day before….

    1. Katie*

      Also to note, I don’t work retail and management are totally reasonable humans. I message my manager and she wants to worry about my kids.

  30. Medium Sized Manager*

    I once had a manager get mad because I “only” gave her 5 hours notice. I got out of the ER around 5 AM, and I was supposed to report around 10 AM. I do not miss the restaurant days!

  31. Elinor Dashwood*

    My boss does this too! It’s not in our handbook, the handbook actually says we should notify our manager with as much advance notice as possible and a minimum of one hour notice. My boss has informed us that we must call in no more than two hours before each shift because we “have no way of knowing that we will be too sick to work” in advance of that.

    I do not work in retail. I work in a library. I find the entire thing vaguely perplexing. OP is the only other person I have met who has run into this policy.

  32. Mmm.*

    Wait…they can’t call in more OR less than two hours before a shift? There’s a one minute window? That’s hilarious.

  33. MishenNikara*

    If the store is a certain blue oriented, not wall related grocery store, it’s 2 hours MINIMUM to the store itself, not a manager’s cell. If they wanna not have their cell on for a courtesy direct notice that’s on them.

    If I’m right about the company and you’re a union store, sign nothing or even step into the office unless your union rep is present

  34. Happy*

    lol @ the suck up coworker. I can see why that would make LW question if the policy was actually common!

  36. Unkempt Flatware*

    I had a boss who believed it was against the law to REQUEST references from former employers. Not just against company policy to provide, but straight up thought that anyone who calls asking for references was committing a crime. Bosses believe weird things sometimes.

  37. too many dogs*

    What rock have I been under that I have never heard of this before? As a supervisor, I relish the staff members who give me lots of lead time when calling in sick. As for the supervisor not wanting to get calls on their personal phone at all hours, could the sick staff member call the business and leave a message on the answering machine there? That’s what we do. We can check the answering machine remotely, so this supervisor could hopefully do that.

  38. I never have real plans*

    I once finished a nursing shift at 7pm while taking breaks to go puke in the hallway trashcan, and had to wait until 3am to call out for my 7am shift the next day. My coworkers all knew I wouldn’t be in but the nursing office had to scramble to find coverage. Not my problem your policy kicks you in the teeth. <>

  39. H.Regalis*

    Ugh, I had a boss who did this. She worked in restaurants for years and years before she became a manager in an office, and I think she brought this idea over with her. I thought it was dumb and I still do. If I’m puking my guts out at 2am, I know I won’t be in at 8am; but service industry jobs HATE when you call in and this is absolutely designed to discourage you from doing so.

    For my boss, the pandemic changed her mind about this sort of thing and she became a lot more flexible, but that was only one person and this is so, so common.

  40. xl*

    I once called in sick a few months in advance.

    It was when I needed a specific dental procedure done and it was the day the dentist could schedule me for it. My boss appreciated it because it gave her plenty of time to make a note of it and adjust the schedule accordingly.

  41. Honoria Lucasta*

    Lots of people see questions like this and comment on how unfair these practices are, noting that retail and food service are so different than other jobs. They’re like this because there is no redundant staffing in retail and food service and all the deadlines are immediate. In an office context, if the receptionist is out for a day on short notice you probably have someone who can cover the phones for a day and all the projects she was working on can either be postponed or covered.

    But in food service, the meal is ordered and delivered on a very short turnaround. At the same time, the margins are so slim (and labor is such a large percentage of the cost of business) that you can’t afford to overschedule on the off-chance that someone calls out sick. The only way to be able to afford extra labor coverage would be to raise prices to a level that the public wouldn’t support, and even then an employer’s first move would probably be to raise pay rates on the existing staffing levels rather than increasing the number of scheduled low-wage staff. So businesses have a very strong reason to disincentivize call-outs from their employees through all kinds of unreasonable and draconian procedures.

  42. rubble*

    so if someone’s in hospital getting a surgery and are going to be stuck there for a week, she wants them to call her two hours before opening time *every single day* to call in sick, does she?

    I’ve never met a manager who wants *less* notice people will be out sick, how absurd.

  43. Workaholic*

    when I worked in food service we had to give a minimum 2 hr notice. really great when I’m the opening person and woke up sick and nobody was there to call. I’ve never heard of having to call in no sooner than 2 hours. That said I LOVE my current employer. Not sure what the actual policy is, but I’ve emailed at 3am. we’ve also worked, realized mid shift we don’t v feel well, and can message on teams and good to go.

  44. Not Jane*

    My employer doesn’t have these ridiculous policies about the times you have to call (thankfully, as most of the policies are written for people working standard hours at head office, but my team all work shifts from satellite offices). It does, however, have a policy that you must call, not text or email. I do not usually enforce this part of the policy with my team.

  45. Laser99*

    I worked in retail for a long time and EVERY boss/manager I have had would lose their mind if I tried to call in sick. I worked sick many, many, times.

  46. Daniel*

    Scheduling text messages is a fantastic feature of modern phones. Nice to see iPhone finally get the ability to do it!

  47. Michelle*

    My son needed to be out for an injury. Doctor said 4 weeks. He had to wait 7 days before he could file for medical leave. It then took another 2 weeks to get the paperwork. By the time the doctor’s office filled out and faxed it back, he was returning to work in less than 5 days. He had to wake up every day of leave at 3:30 am to call in (he works 4am-1pm). He was supposed to be resting and healing but some places are ridiculous with these rules. He was back at work for a week before he got his first STD check.

  48. merida*

    It’s so maddening yet a tiny bit comical when managers make weirdly strict policies like this – do they not realize they now also have to follow this unrealistic rule? Or am I just the crazy one for assuming rules also apply to management? Does management think they are immune to sickness and family emergencies? I’ve known several people who’ve worked for companies that have this exact call out policy (no less and no more than two hour notice) and I still so baffled.

  49. Mal*

    My old work policy required a full 24 hours notice if you were going to call out sick, otherwise it was considered a no call/no show. Once I was so sick my doctor sent me directly to be admitted to hospital, and I called my work to let them know as they were wheeling me to a room. When I got out a few days later I had to go through a meeting with my supervisor and HR, was written up for no call/no show and told I was very lucky they didn’t fire me. I got sick in the first place from coworkers going to work while ill.

    1. DJ*

      I’ve heard of that too but yet one can feel ill the night before but be fine the following morning then or conversely wake up sick. And of course in your case an emergency hospital admission a couple of hours before!

  50. chewingle*

    Everyone has already said it: your boss clearly misunderstands the policy.

    One way to navigate that could be to ask, “How should I handle calling out if I’m using my sick time for a medical procedure?” Maybe it will inspire her to think through it more (unless she’s a truly terrible manager and just doubles down).

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