coworker is allergic to me because of my cats, referencing pop culture in an interview, and more

by Alison Green on September 30, 2024

I’m off for a few days. Here are some past letters that I’m making new again, rather than leaving them to wilt in the archives.

1. My colleague is allergic to me because of my cats

I’m a brand new manager in a public services environment. I have two cats, who are not particularly hairy, and I wash my clothes – and myself – in the usual customary manner for our Western culture. I also use a lint roller and vacuum my home thoroughly, but pet hair is pet hair, and it gets into things whether I like it or not. One of my staff members is very, very allergic to cats. In our 1:1 meetings, we have to sit outside my office in a common area to keep him from swelling up and experiencing full-on watery eyes. Fortunately, we can schedule these meetings at a time when no one else is within earshot of the space, but it isn’t fair to him or to me to be somewhere that can’t have some privacy from walk-throughs.

I am at a loss as to what to do next, short of evicting my pets. Others with cat allergies don’t seem to have this problem around me, and I don’t wear scents or use personal products with an overwhelming perfume; my first career was as a professional musician, and due to close proximity to others, perfumes and colognes were a big no-no. I didn’t have issues with cat-allergic colleagues in that world, either. For seven years, I sat shoulder-to-shoulder with someone who was seriously allergic to cats and nothing like this happened!

Short of asking my colleague to take medicine – which works to varying degrees and has horrible side effects – what more can I do to mitigate this? He’s a fantastic colleague, and I need to be able to meet with him to talk about his professional development, job performance, and interpersonal relationships with other staff: all of the things that you do when you are a manager.

Meet with him by phone! In-person meetings definitely have some advantages; you can see eye contact and body language and they generally just feel like they build the relationship more in ways that phone calls don’t necessarily do. But in this case, the downsides of meeting in-person trump those advantages. Switch to the phone. (You could also try video chat if you’re both into that, although it can have its own disadvantages.)

It may seem silly to talk by phone when you’re in the same building, but in this case it’s not; it’s a practical solution to the problem.

Also, ask him! He may have thoughts on other things you can try, and if you haven’t asked him directly if there’s anything he thinks might help, he might not be speaking up. (He should speak up if he has ideas, but some people won’t unless they’re directly asked, particularly when there’s a manager involved.)

And let us all take a moment to feel great sorrow for the cat-allergic among us.

Read an update to this letter here.

– 2017

2. My new coworkers embarrassed me at a meeting with my previous team

I recently began a new position with a team that is just getting their feet under them in terms of industry standards, and as part of setting up our new organization, we are working with a number of established institutions in the region to learn how they’ve been successful. I have more experience in this industry than my colleagues do, so I offered to set up a meeting with a previous team who I’m still on very good terms with (I interned there during grad school, and would like to work there again given the opportunity).

Unfortunately, the meeting was a disaster. My new colleagues spent nearly a third of our time dragging previous employees, complaining about our administration, and generally airing dirty laundry that has absolutely no business in a professional meeting. I tried to steer us back on track several times, but had no success. It was clear from some of the looks I got that my previous team was at least as uncomfortable as I was.

Today, I’ve made it clear to my new team that this was wholly inappropriate, and my supervisor apologized to me for any reputational harm done to me by this, but I’m still mortified that I was responsible for their bad behavior in front of our industry peers. I’m afraid this has damaged my standing with my previous team, and I’m really looking for ways to mitigate this damage.

Would it be inappropriate to reach out and thank them for the meeting, and apologize for the inappropriate comments? Or would that just make it look like I also think it’s okay to throw people under the bus as soon as they leave the room? What is the best way to distance myself from my new team’s behavior?

Yes, contact them and apologize! You can frame it as, “I wasn’t expecting the meeting to go that way! I’d hoped we’d talk about XYZ. I’ve talked to my new team about what happened, but I wanted to apologize to you directly. I really appreciate that you were willing to lend us the time, and I’m sorry it wasn’t better used.” I don’t think you have to get into it beyond that — just enough to acknowledge that you know this was messed up and you won’t let it happen again.

Speaking of not letting it happen again — I would not set up more meetings of this type for your team. If you need those meetings, do them alone or maybe with your boss. But don’t risk the same thing happening with other contacts.

– 2019

3. Can you reference pop culture in an interview?

Is it okay to reference pop culture in a job interview as long as the reference itself is not inappropriate or obscure?

For instance, in previous interviews, I have referenced my “Monica Geller-esque sense of neatness,” how I consider Leslie Knope to be one of my role models, and how I had learned to work with a supervisor like Angela from The Office.

For what it’s worth, in each of these positions, I was applying for something relatively junior and in a pretty liberal field/office environment, not, like, the CEO of Morgan Stanley or something.

There are better ways to convey what you want to convey. It’s just too likely that your interviewer hasn’t seen the show you’re referencing and so misses your meaning entirely — and maybe doesn’t even know you’re referencing a show and has no idea who this Monica Geller is or why you’re mentioning her. (There’s also a risk of it making you seem less professionally mature — not because you’re referencing pop culture, which isn’t inherently unprofessional, but because you’re not realizing that not everyone will get that particular reference.)

– 2019

4. Company president owes $50 for a fantasy football league and hasn’t paid

My husband is the commissioner of a fantasy football league for a group of 12 top-level executives at his company. In the group there are multiple vice presidents and the president himself. My husband is not a top-level executive. He’s a mid-level employee, but is well liked and has networked himself into the league.

The league costs $50 to participate in. Last year, the president never paid him! (Keep in mind this is the president of a multi-billion dollar company, so his pay is certainly generous.) My husband has sent several emails to him requesting payment, but never received a response and hasn’t brought it up in person. He says every time he runs into the president at work, he forgets to bring it up. We’re still a few months out from next season but he’s wondering … how should he bring this up again? Should he make a joke of it at their next annual draft? Or is this something he should just write off as a laughable anomaly?

The president probably isn’t intentionally withholding the money; he probably means to get back to your husband but then forgets. But really, after the second email, he should have made a point of dealing with it.

In any case, your husband doesn’t need to write this off (yet). I wouldn’t keep emailing since clearly that’s not working, but the next time he runs into him, he can say, “Hey, can I get that 50 bucks from you for last year’s fantasy football season? I’m trying to close all that out and that’s the last remaining money due.” Or, if there’s any kind of gathering at the start of the next season, he can bring it up then — “I’ve still got to get last season’s $50 from you — can you give me that along with this season’s fee?” (And it might be useful to ask someone more senior than him to help collect this time.)

– 2019

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{ 239 comments }

{ 239 comments… read them below }

  1. Nodramalama*

    It’s funny how letters like LW1 change so much with time. I feel like 2020 onwards it seems so obvious that the solution is so have meetings virtually!

    It’s also interesting for LW3, because reading back now a few of these references come across as a bit rooted in a particular time. Also, that is a LOT of pop culture references.

    3. TooTiredToThink*

      Even with #2 I thought they meant it was a virtual meeting and I was like – why isn’t he just muting them? And then realized, no, this was in person, heh.

      And I agree about the pop culture references. While the Friends one would still make sense to the majority of people – even though I was a full adult when Parks and Recs and The Office were on – I never watched either. And I barely hear any references about either show and when I do, it’s always someone 35+.

      1. Antilles*

        The Office is actually surprisingly popular among Gen Z (and the older members of Gen Alpha), even though they were too young to be into the show when it aired. You might not be hearing references to it in casual chit-chat, but there are a *lot* of people under your “always someone 35+” who enjoy the show as background noise / ‘comfort food’.
        Parks and Rec though, yeah, hasn’t had anywhere near the cultural foothold as the others.

        1. Ann O'Nemity*

          Yep, streaming has brought these shows to new viewers! I remember when my younger team members discovered Suits for the first time in 2023 and went nuts for it.

          Still, in the context of the question, I’m with Alison and wouldn’t assume an interviewer would recognize a pop culture reference.

      2. Dido*

        I’m in my mid-20s and all of the shows mentioned are VERY popular among my age group, especially the latter two

    4. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

      For me, that solution was SO obvious in 2024 that I assumed LW was a hardcore “everything must be in person” type who was refusing the option, rather than not having considered it!

    5. Fierce Jindo*

      The other thing obvious in hindsight about #1 is that the office should invest in great air filters.

      1. Observer*

        True!

        It’s interesting to me that no one thought of this. It’s not like no one knew about this kind of stuff. “Sick building syndrome” was a well known thing, and it had become clear by then that decent ventilation was not just a luxury. And air filters were a thing.

      2. Jackalope*

        As someone with a) cats and b) friends who are allergic to cats, I agree. A good air filter makes a big difference when you’re in close quarters with someone who is allergic (or when they’re visiting and around your critters).

    6. Fleur-de-Lis*

      I’m LW1, and the culture for that institution back in 2017 was definitely In Person Only; Zoom and web conferencing for regular meetings, especially if people were in person for their regular workday wasn’t much of a thing on that university’s campus until COVID hit!

      I’m happy to say that I’m now a couple jobs removed from that environment, and the culture here is decidedly hybrid in modality. Most meetings are set up to allow full participation from remote workers, and it makes a huge difference in accessibility.

  2. Scottish Beanie*

    3. Can you reference pop culture in an interview?

    Why do you want to do this (unless you’re applying for a trivia game show host)? I would want to be able to communicate in a way that the company would understand, not in a way that will show off my pop culture knowledge.

    1. Theon, Theon, it rhymes with neon*

      Yeah, I didn’t recognize any of those references, so that approach would have fallen rather flat. The LW would have just ended up having to explain what they meant anyway, so why not start there?

      If you are going to use pop culture references, or anything that your audience might or might not be familiar with, a good trick is establishing that there’s a common reference first. “Are you familiar with Monica Geller?” Then proceed accordingly. Just last week, someone asked me if I had a music background, and I said no, so they had to explain their analogy between music teaching and work processes from scratch. But that was okay, because they’d taken the trouble first to establish that I needed it, rather than diving right into confusing me.

      I will add that this approach works better with an audience of one or two; in a larger group, you’re more likely to get people not wanting to be the only one needing an explanation. You might lose more people than you realize, even after you ask.

      1. MK*

        Bit do you really want to waste time in an interview talking about Monica Geller? Also, another issue is that these references aren’t always positive. Monica’s neatness wasn’t portrayed as a virtue in the show, at best it was an annoying quirk, at worst stifling and hysterical.

        1. Arrietty*

          Same, Monica was the only one I had heard of and my overriding impression is that she was meant to be seen as irritating and railroading (I’ve not watched many episodes of Friends).

        2. I Would Rather Be Eating Dumplings*

          Yeah, that was my take. I am familiar the references and personally I think someone who self-described as Monica Geller would be awful to work with.

        3. ecnaseener*

          Yeah, if you’re specifically invoking Monica’s neatness, you’re probably better off with an interviewer who doesn’t get the reference than one who does! Not one of her redeeming qualities at all.

        4. MsM*

          And Leslie can also be a bit of a micromanager. I’d need OP to be able to demonstrate they recognize those weaknesses, and at that point, you might as well just skip the references and focus on the traits.

        5. KateM*

          And if you do insist on using Monica, why would it be better to say “Are you familiar with Monica Geller? No? Well, she is this character from TV show Friends who is known for her cleanliness, competitiveness and obsessive-compulsive nature. I’m just like her!” than “I’m known for my cleanliness, competitiveness and obsessive-compulsive nature” and then maybe mention “just like Monica Geller from Friends”?

      2. allathian*

        I’ve never seen either version of The Office, and I only know names like Leslie Knope and Michael Scott from reading AAM.

        Referencing those in a theoretical interview with me would not serve you well, simply because I don’t think there are any characters in fictional office environments that would serve as good role models. Offices in TV shows and movies are pretty much by definition unprofessional because a professional office with little or no drama would be boring to watch. Offices with enough drama to be interesting enough to put on TV are inherently toxic.

        1. DJ Abbott*

          Also, I tried watching Parks and Rec and The Office, and those shows don’t work for me. So I would be wondering why they were brought up, and why the person didn’t just say what they mean.
          I think I could cope with Monica though, because I’m very familiar with her and the other characters.

          1. Miette*

            Agreed–I never got into the Office, but I am pop culture aware enough to know have the impression it was purposely written to be a monumentally dysfunctional workplace, so comparing oneself to a character on there would not land well with me.

            1. Happy*

              Well, OP didn’t compare themself to an Office character – it was their supervisor who was like Angela (and hence, difficult to work with).

        2. Pastor Petty Labelle*

          Offices in TV shows and movies are pretty much by definition unprofessional because a professional office with little or no drama would be boring to watch.

          Ding, ding, ding. The other reason you shouldn’t do it. Most of the traits that stand out about a tv character are there for drama, which is the last thing you want the interviewer to associate you with.

          Communication is conveying information in a way the other person understands. The problem with pop culture references is that they don’t clearly communicate what you want.

        3. Cheshire Cat*

          I’ve never watched either show, and my impression from other people’s references to Leslie Knopevis that the character is a bit of a dunce. So I would really wonder why she’s your role model!

      3. Nodramalama*

        Eh I think prompting a pop culture reference reads as quite awkward and unnecessary for what is essentially a throw away comment. I think you either say it as a passing comment and then it doesn’t really matter if the person gets the reference, or just don’t say it

        1. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

          There’s no need to introduce awkwardness, and making a reference your interviewer doesn’t get has the potential to do that, either for you or for them.

      4. KateM*

        Just last week, someone asked me if I had a music background, and I said no, so they had to explain their analogy between music teaching and work processes from scratch. But that was okay, because they’d taken the trouble first to establish that I needed it, rather than diving right into confusing me.

        Did you really need it, though? Was the analogy helpful to you? “So, now that you know in depth how this absolutely irrelevant thing works, just know that our work processes work the same” – why not just explain the work processes at once? In the case of this approach, my impression would be that the explainer is rather inflexible in their own thought processes.

        1. Myrin*

          Yeah, possibly there’s something about the music teaching process that makes it much more understandable to a layperson than the actual work process but IDK, that approach feels pretty convoluted from the outside at least (especially since it apparently involves “a music background”. If it were just “Have you ever heard a song before?”, that’s one thing, but a comparison only someone with a music background would get without additional explanation seems much more involved than that).

          1. dogwoodblossom*

            I assumed the context was a person with a music background explaining to an interviewer how their music experience was relevant to a non-music job.

      5. i am a human*

        I had a direct report who would knew I didn’t watch a lot of TV, but would still reference TV shows all the time. Even when she started off with, “Do you watch Parks and Rec?” and I would answer “no,” she would give me the reference anyway… and then have to take the time to explain it. Having to explain it *really* takes away from the effectiveness of whatever it is you’re trying to accomplish with the reference.

    2. Free Market*

      I disagree strongly with the advice in #3. Any time you can make your presentation more memorable, creative, and vivacious, you will win over people who make their presentation bland and generic. That’s why we remember sound bites and zingers in presidential debates.

      Sure, you run the risk that the interviewer might not be a fan of FRIENDS. (I’m not.) But you also run a risk, and probably a much bigger one, by playing it safe all the time.

      1. allathian*

        Depends very much on the interviewer. Sure, you want your interview to be memorable, but in a positive way.

      2. TechWorker*

        I just don’t agree! A job interview is not a presidential debate and ‘memorable’ is not equivalent to ‘always gets the job’. There are also other options between ‘bland and generic’ and ‘use random pop culture references’…

      3. Allonge*

        But do you want to be memorable for references that half the interview panel did not get?

        By all means, go for an outstanding presentation of you. Outstanding does not have to be gimmicky though.

          1. Pastor Petty Labelle*

            Not everyone watches the same shows. Especially in the days of streaming. When we had 3 channels, sure. Now? Even so-called hit shows have much lower viewership than shows used to have.

            You want the interviewer to remember you and your skills, not your knowledge of pop culture. You want to show how your skills and experience match the job.

          2. ecnaseener*

            I was curious whether you’re right about that, so I checked the tumblr blog haveyouseenthisseries-poll — tumblr is of course a different demographic than the average hiring manager, but it’s a decent ballpark. (Sorry to use your comment as a jumping off point for such pedantry, I was just very curious!)

            The upshot is, you’re correct that it’s most people as in more than half, but not so many that I’d consider any of these references a safe bet. Friends, Parks and Rec, and the US version of The Office all had 60-65% of respondents having at least partially seen the show. (Doesn’t look like they’ve polled about Office UK, and not having seen either one myself I have no idea which one/s Angela is from.)

              1. Jeanine*

                I used to use tumblr a few years back but then I quit because the number of social media stuff was getting overwhelming.

            2. Snacattack*

              I wouldn’t trust these numbers. I expect they’re quite a bit lower than 60-65%. People who seldom if ever watch tv series are generally not going to fill out a poll like this on a blog designed for people who, well, do watch tv series.

          3. PhyllisB*

            I wouldn’t. I would catch the Monica reference somewhat because the actress who played her has said in interviews that this was pretty close to her actual personality, but the rest of them would float right by me.
            Of course, I don’t even watch TV so I’m not a good example. The thing is, it’s not going to land right with a lot of people.

          4. Genni*

            Evidence, please? On a quick check of the 11 people currently in my office, two knew all three examples. Three knew none of them. The rest knew one or two (mostly Monica Geller).

            I don’t think you are right about that.

          6. Elitist Semicolon*

            You’re making a lot of assumptions about the demographics, location, and viewing habits of “most people.” And, as others have pointed out, anyone who knows the source material well enough to get the references in the examples also knows it well enough to recognize that those traits aren’t necessarily the characters’ best assets.

          7. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

            I vaguely remember Monica Geller, recognize the name Leslie Knope even though I haven’t seen Parks and Rec (and have no idea what the character was like), and have never seen The Office either. I’m definitely less up on pop culture than most people, but it doesn’t seem to be worth it; if people get it, there’s little benefit vs. just saying things more directly, and if they don’t, you’ve introduced a mismatch where there doesn’t need to be one.

          8. Observer*

            Most people are going to get references the examples provided.

            And that assumption is likely to work against you. The simple fact is that a lot of people will NOT get those references. And I’m not talking like 1%. This is a very tapped in group, yet a lot of people didn’t get the references even when they were current.

            Making that assumption in an interview is going to be a real problem with any hiring manager concerned about communications and / or some level of diversity, because the assumption is *so* narrow.

          9. I Have RBF*

            No, they aren’t.

            I don’t watch TV, and never watch stuff like “Friends”. I think I saw a few minutes once accidentally and changed the channel. I have never actually watched all of “The Office” either, and only know some of the references because everyone uses them. I only know of Leslie Knope as some sort of celebrity, and not one that I GAF about.

            I would stare at anyone who used them in an interview like someone from an alien world.

            Never assume that the people that you are interviewing with have the same level of involvement in “pop culture” that you do.

          10. JustaTech*

            I wouldn’t (and I’m target demographic for all of them) and then I’d have a moment or two of confusion and likely some “oh look, another normal thing I don’t get, I’m such a weirdo” that would interrupt my concentration on the interview.

      4. Usurper Cranberries*

        Unless you’re interviewing at the channel that aired the shows, I think there’s far too much of a risk of being remembered as a poor communicator and lacking in cultural competency when you rely on media references. Be memorable because you make color-coded spreadsheets of your book collection for fun or whatever, not because you mentioned an organized fictional character who your interviewers may or may not know (and may or may not have a positive view of, if they know the character).

      5. Emmy Noether*

        I just don’t think pop culture references are going to be that memorable, unless it’s in a “I didn’t understand what he was talking about half the time” way. For people who do get it, it won’t be very memorable.

        The point of pop culture references is to establish immediate rapport with someone who shares those references. If it works, then it will feel on a subconscious level like you are a friend of a friend instead of a stranger. However, the probability of it backfiring is just too great – if people don’t get the reference, it will make you more of a stranger, and even people who do get the reference may find it misplaced in a work setting.

        You can establish rapport in ways that are more likely to land (like shared experience in your field of work, or whatever actual commonalities you discover during the interview – if the interviewer has a Friends poster in the background, then go right ahead with the Monica reference).

        1. Angstrom*

          Yup. Pop culture is highly fragmented, not monolithic. “Everyone I know would get it” is not a good measure of how a reference would be understood.

          1. Random Bystander*

            Yeah, this is not like the 1970s when in the US there were about 3.5 network channels (PBS being the .5 because it didn’t broadcast near as many hours as the others) and so you stood a good chance of people being familiar with one of the three shows that could be aired at a given time slot. Nowadays, between cable and streaming options–it’s just too fragmented to be reliable as a piece to hang part of a job interview on.

        2. Antilles*

          This. There’s absolutely value in being memorable in an interview and building a rapport; the blunt reality is that people like to hire/work with people they like.
          But OP’s examples don’t really do that. Simply saying something like “I think one of my biggest strengths is my Monica Geller-style sense of neatness” isn’t particularly notable even if your interviewer *does* get the reference.

        3. Jackalope*

          I personally haven’t seen any of the shows that are referenced here even though I’m Gen X. I’ve heard of some of the characters and have some vague idea about what their personalities are like but not enough for any of this to land. At best during an interview I’d just kind of ignore the examples as not landing; I’m used to doing that with pop culture references I don’t get but it isn’t going to help the interview, and as you point out it may backfire and hurt the interviewee’s candidacy.

              1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

                I’m on the cusp of X and Millennial and have never seen Friends OR St Elmo’s Fire. (Or either version of The Office or Parks&Rec.)

                1. I Have RBF*

                  I’m Generation Jones (the lost sliver generation between Boomers and Gen X.) I never watched:
                  * Friends
                  * St Elmo’s Fire
                  * The Office
                  * Parks&Rec

                  IF I watch TV, it is stuff like Star Trek et al. TNG was the only reason I even owned a TV in the late 80s. Even now, my roomies have TVs, I don’t.

                2. metadata minion*

                  Same here. I think technically I’ve seen one or two episodes of Friends, but it really isn’t my think and most references to the show would fall flat.

              2. Jackalope*

                It’s is your comment right now that tells me for the first time ever that there’s a movie called St. Elmo’s Fire. Who knew?

            2. Georgia Carolyn Mason*

              Ha, I’ve seen Friends, Seinfeld, The Office and Parks & Rec — about one episode each out of curiosity, or at a friend’s or family member’s home — and disliked them all. I’m happy to turn in my Gen X card!

      6. Arrietty*

        The roles I hire for involve a lot of communicating complex ideas to people from different backgrounds, and using something as culturally and generationally specific as pop media references would be a concern, not an asset.

        1. JustaTech*

          The problems with pop culture references came up, interestingly, in the Sci-Fi show Stargate SG1 where some of the characters from other planets would occasionally complain to their Earth coworkers that the cultural references they could not understand were very frustrating and exclusionary.

          It was an interesting note in a show that both used a lot of pop culture references, and was itself a (mild) pop culture reference.

          1. Freya*

            Or, taking the thing to extremes, that species in one episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation (ST:TNG) which speaks entirely in cultural references (the episode is ‘Darmok’ – the phrase that I hear most often repeated referencing that episode is “Shaka, when the walls fell”, which is used in the episode as something that is a metaphor for failure and the feeling of having failed)

      7. Falling Diphthong*

        We remember people who memorably blew their job interview just like we remember zingers. If you don’t get the job, you want the memory to be “pleasant association if we meet again” not “the guy who did the whole thing in iambic pentameter while dressed as a banana.”

      8. ecnaseener*

        You might* “win” with a hiring manager who values vivacity over substance, but do you really want to work for that manager? Be personable, sure, but I wouldn’t prize being memorable especially highly.

        *Might, because tbh I would place “I’m like a main character from a popular sitcom” pretty far on the “bland” side of the scale.

        2. Sanctimonious*

          “hiring manager who values vivacity over substance, but do you realty’s any to work for that manager”?

          Yes, I would.

          1. ecnaseener*

            To each their own, I guess! Never a dull moment on that manager’s team, to be sure — imagine what a sitcom-y bunch of coworkers you’d have.

          1. JustaTech*

            Not Hastily Blessed Fritos, but the most memorable candidate I ever interviewed said things like “I’m not motivated” and “this job will just go to some Asian kid, all the lab jobs do.”

            So, very memorable in that it was a 15 minute interview more than 15 years ago, but not in a good way!

          2. Gumby*

            In my case:

            In response to an easy ‘getting to know you’ question about hobbies outside of work I got to hear about how he had recently gone on a retreat about the secret history of yoga(?) and women’s sexual spirituality or something like that. TBH, I actively tried to block out much of it but secret knowledge – he was the only man allowed at said retreat – and women’s sexual something played a part. It honestly might not even have been yoga. I am a woman, he was a man about 15 years my senior. Sooooooo uncomfortable.

            Memorable? Yes, despite my best efforts. Hired? Nope. (Hint: there are very, very few roles in which the word “sexual” should come up in the interview. Office job at a generic tech start up is not one of them.)

        2. linger*

          As a point of comparison, one of the most memorable candidates ever mentioned here was the one who inadvertently threw condoms over the interview desk. But:
          1. That candidate was successful. Because of the interview content, not the condoms.
          2. Asked about it later, the hiring manager professed not to remember the condom incident. She claimed she’d been preoccupied with some cosmetic mishap of her own — which the candidate, in turn, had not even registered.
          So, what counts as “memorable”, and the value of “memorability”, has to be measured against what is relevant to the hiring manager’s needs.
          Pop culture references? Not relevant, not helpful to the task in hand. Describe yourself directly, as your own person, not as a pop culture derivative.

          1. Golden*

            I remember the condom letter! One of my other favorites was the guy who showed up with a stack of Bill O’Reilly’s Killing Series books “for reference” for a job that wasn’t related to history or politics. I don’t think it had its own letter but was in one of the comment roundups.

            Also 100% agree with your take on using pop culture references in an interview.

      10. Irish Teacher.*

        It’s not really true that any time you make your presentation memorable, creative and vivacious, you will win over people who make their presentation bland and generic. For one thing, interviewers aren’t really looking for who has the most interesting answers. They are looking for who shows an understanding of the job and experience and qualifications that show they can do the job. Yeah, how you phrase things might help with some interviewers, but certainly not with all. Some would be put off and feel the person is not taking the interview seriously and most just won’t take too much notice of it one way or the other. They’ll just judge on how good a fit you are for the job, rather than who entertaining you are.

        There are also all kinds of ways to be memorable and creative in a bad way, all the examples of “gumption” we’ve heard about here. The LW who faked a delay in order to “look good” by phoning in advance and saying he was delayed was memorable and creative, but I don’t think it was in a positive way.

        I would also argue that saying something like “I’ve a Monica level of organisation” doesn’t make a presentation more memorable, creative or vivacious. I wouldn’t consider it to be in any way any more interesting than “I am very organised.” It is just less easily understood and if the interviewer puts any store on it at all, it could make them think this person will be a bit less clear in presentations.

        And I would say that while we remember sound bites and zingers in presidential debates, it isn’t always for the right reason. The 2011 Irish presidential election in Ireland was one of the most dramatic I’ve ever seen. Who won? One of the two candidates (out of seven) who had no drama and remained perfectly calm and polite while everybody else was making zingers and insulting one another and throwing dramas (one claimed somebody had tried to assassinate her, because the tyre of her car burst). Are his answers the ones I remember? Nope. Would I vote for most of those whose answers I do remember. Nope, because they were mostly memorable for being bizarre.

      11. Sneaky Squirrel*

        Eh, if you’re going to take a risk, do so in a way that shows off a skill set. A swing like this will be remembered more for the wrong reasons than the right ones. At best, LW is relying on an audience that knows who these characters are and that the character brings up the right imagery to get a chuckle out of it. At worst LW risks alienating an interviewer who has no idea what LW is talking about or an interviewer who does but feels cringe about the reference.

      12. Workerbee*

        Good god, no.

        I don’t want flash. Anyone can add flash.

        What I want when I’m interviewing is to get a sense of the person’s accountability, sense of responsibility, willingness to learn, interest in the job at hand.

        One of the most ‘creative and vivacious’ persons my organization acquired as a creative director turned out to be far more style than substance, and detrimental at that. Ended up costing the company a lot of money to support his “style,” plus alienated so many great employees because management was caught up in his performative showcasing and ignoring that he was a terrible manager himself. Too busy making flashy presentations for the team about how he wished he could be more compassionate, and crap like that.
        He’s memorable, all right – but for all the wrong reasons.

        SHOW your enthusiasm by all means, but the people I’m looking for aren’t relying on pop culture references or quips. That stuff just gets in the way.

      13. Lissa*

        Memorable does not equal desirable! I remember a LOT of interviewees for their “creativity” but they did not get hired – because I hire for substance and results, not flash.

        The record of the US in presidential election results is, uh, not one I would wish to replicate in hiring.

      14. Jennifer Strange*

        That’s why we remember sound bites and zingers in presidential debates.

        Just because we remember them doesn’t mean we look favorably on the person who said them.

      15. Twain*

        The fact that you consider these random pop culture references to be “memorable, creative and vivacious” tells me everything I need to know about your skills in hiring!

        Not everyone falls for gimmickry.

      16. Observer*

        Sure, you run the risk that the interviewer might not be a fan of FRIENDS. (I’m not.)

        You run more than that risk, though.

        * You become memorable for the wrong reasons.
        * You mention a character favorably, while apparently most people have the opposite view of that person, which makes you look really bad. (Note how many people say that they would never want to work with a Monica Geller because she’s not just neat, but she’s a neat freak and a very difficult person.)
        * You make a reference to something / someone who people don’t recognize. As I mentioned in the original post, *so many* people mentioned that they didn’t know about one or another characters that Alison had to post a notice asking people to not rehash that particular point.
        * You look like you are insular / fit into one of many negative stereotypes about people who think that the whole is *just EXACTLY like them*, and if they aren’t they *should* be.

        There are many ways to be less bland that are a lot safer.

      17. Smithy*

        I think an effective use of pop culture references in the work place is basically if they can function on two levels – similar to jokes in kids movies that appeal to both parents and kids.

        I know who Taylor Swift is, but I don’t listen to her music – so any songs I’m aware of are more accidental. So using her as a reference that only requires you to know she’s a famous musician, and then perhaps can have extra meaning if you know more is where it works. Even in comparison to 2019 – there are fewer and fewer tv shows that have that “Taylor Swift” pop culture moment.

        In general, I do agree with this sentiment – partially because it makes information more memorable but also because it can disrupt our own internal jargon. We recently had a challenge where I worked around one event regularly being misunderstood in regards to how much work it required and work that was different than other events we worked. Now ultimately, it took some time and error with metaphors to find one that effectively explained the difference – and that’s probably why it’s a point of caution during an interview. A metaphor or pop culture example that makes a ton of sense to us in the moment, may be a bit more of a reach to an audience we’re not familiar with. So maybe Taylor Swift wouldn’t immediately click in the example, but the Beatles would have.

        Ultimately, it’s about how conservative anyone wants to be in an interview – and being conservative in interviews usually is the standard advice.

        1. Humble Schoolmarm*

          Exactly! I could (accurately) describe myself as a Hermione Granger, but while the hiring manager might get that I’m dedicated to knowledge, research and figuring things out (plus I’m the one that always has everything anyone could possibly need in my bag), they might also think that I’m a competitive know-it-all, have lived under a rock for 7 years and doesn’t understand why folks are more cautious with Harry Potter references, or totally do understand and am potentially problematic for trans or non-binary people. Anything with a 3 in 4 chance of a misfire seems a bad idea in an interview, especially when it doesn’t really add anything to your candidacy.

    3. Falling Diphthong*

      I think it references how TV used to be something that drew us together as a common experience discussing people we know: People would gather around the water cooler to talk about what happened on Dallas, just as they would gather around the oat grinding station to talk about what happened with Ogg in the next cave last night.

      I think asynchronous viewing was the biggest thing to kill this, along with the huge increase in offerings. But because it’s easy to find one’s little tribe of Friends viewers, online or in your particular household or friend group, it can feel like those references are more universal than they are.

      I think the last line of the answer is key–it seems off because you seem unaware that everyone wouldn’t know this thing.

      1. UKDancer*

        Yes I think you’re right. The last big thing people talked about was Game of Thrones and even then it wasn’t everyone. Other things have an audience (Strictly Come Dancing for example) but it’s not universal.

        The only thing people talked about a lot in my office would be things like the Olympics especially if the UK was winning a medal or football games especially if England or Scotland were playing (Wales less so because my current tea doesn’t have any Wales supporters in). Not everyone but a lot of people are interested.

        But I can’t think of anything that everyone is watching.

        1. Jennifer @unchartedworlds*

          Yeah, most things from TV or film would be likely to whoosh right over my head. And on the flip side, I have to kind of code-switch away from techie/ internet-culture stuff when with the average not-so-online person. Not everyone knows XKCD, not everyone knows the “this is fine” dog or “shocked Pikachu”, etc.

          1. bamcheeks*

            One of my closest work friendships came about because a colleague muttered “serious business” under her breath and I said, “You spelled that with seven letters, didn’t you.” I don’t come across as someone who speaks internet, so she was shocked. :D

                1. PhyllisB*

                  See, now I have no idea what either of these references mean. Serious business? Shook? Not everyone understands the same references.

      2. Observer*

        <i.I think it references how TV used to be something that drew us together as a common experience discussing people we know:

        Here is the thing. This was never really all that accurate. Sure, it used to be a lot more common, but still, there were plenty of people who didn’t watch whatever show it was.

        People talk about Game of Thrones and how it was such a large cultural moment, and one of the last shows that “everyone” watched pretty much together. Except that “everyone” was not only not literal, it actually was not really close to reality. Yes, a “staggering” number of people watched it – but that’s 44million. The US population is 333 million people. Even if you filter out people too young to have watched it, you are still looking at significantly less that half of the adult population. Sure, it’s big enough that people who have not watched it know about it. And they might get some of the broadest cultural references, like dragons, murder and mayhem, and everyone betraying everyone else more or less. But get past that? Most people who didn’t watch it are not going to get references to specific characters.

        I doubt much is going to be all that different for pretty much any TV show.

        1. LingNerd*

          Yep, I’m one of those people who didn’t watch it! I recognize the names of the characters but have no idea who they are or what they represent. In the middle of all the hype I didn’t think I would enjoy it (I enjoy neither political drama nor fantasy) but gave it a shot and watched the first episode anyway. It was worse than I expected and made me deeply uncomfortable

        2. Gumby*

          I did not know until just now that there were dragons involved. So. (I kind of assumed it was history-ish with lots of violence. But reality-based which Wikipedia tells me is not the case.)

    4. Hyaline*

      “Why would you want to do this?” I can think of a lot of reasons someone might want to, if you’re legitimately asking: Inject personality or humor, illustrate a point succinctly using a metaphor, provide a salient example, suggest approachability, the list goes on. Are these necessarily good enough reasons to risk sounding out of touch or awkward? To risk the reference whiffing right over the interviewer’s head? Usually not. Are there probably better ways? 99% of the time, yeah. But I do think a lot hinges on the reference itself (is it actually fairly widely understood, or does it just seem that way to you) and if the point is made without it, and on not lingering on it. Like I see little issue with answering “What’s a weakness you are working on?” with “I tend to hold people to too high of expectations. For example, I can be a real neat freak–my roommates used say I was like Monica Geller from Friends–and I realized I was too demanding in my standards of how to clean our apartment. Etc…” I’m not saying it’s the greatest answer, but the point stands without the reference and if the interviewer does get it, it amplifies the point and adds some personality to the answer.

      1. Olive*

        I like this phrasing the best. It makes sense in the context of describing a weakness – I wouldn’t compare myself to a pop culture figure as a strength, even if I liked the character. I’m not really familiar with Friends myself, but the very very short reference adds a little bit of personalization that I easily understand without knowing much about the character.

        It’s going to work for an interviewee who can deliver a prepared line and stay on message. It’s really not going to work for someone who is prone to tangents and getting side tracked. I think if you’re 100% confident that you can say “like Monica Geller from Friends” and keep going, it’s fine. If there’s any danger that you’re going to forget the line delivery and start rambling about TV plots, don’t do it!

      2. Smithy*

        I would also add that pop culture references as a way of injecting humor can be a great way to ensure a level of “safe for work”.

        Even if someone is not familiar with Friends, or even a show like The Office that’s a bit snarkier – these are relatively vetted forms of adult humor. I had been working outside of the US for a while, and returning to the US to interview in one of my first interviews – a question about what a boss would say a weakness of mine was, in a moment of both honesty and trying to be funny I remember saying “she’d say I was too American”. Immediately I knew it was both too obscure and risked being received badly by the interviewer. While my interviewer seemed to get what I was saying, and I did move forward – it was a real moment of realizing I needed a better answer to that question.

        Sure, not everyone likes the humor of Friends or the Office – but there’s a level of acceptance that it is a kind of humor many adults like and is relatively mainstream. Whereas, in my case – it was just my take on something I found funny and really risked being more of a non sequitur that was perceived as both not funny and nonsensical.

    5. Czhorat*

      The goal isn’t always to show off, but to use metaphor to make a point, as the Tamarians do. You offer your words freely, like Temba with his arms open and hope the interviewer’s eyes are not closed, as Kiteo.

      You hope for Sokath, his eyes uncovered, but absent shared understanding in the metaphor you may up like Shakah, when the walls fell.

      Joking aside, I’m very torn here; in my real life I sometimes pepper my speech with references to various stories and other media and I really believe in culture. That said, the aforementioned “Darmok” can serve as a cautionary tale of how a dense layer of references can become completely opaque.

      This is hard for me because I’m a big proponent of authenticity and for some people that means popular culture, but you need to tailor your presentation to the audience. The Star Trek (or Friends or GoT or The Bear) reference doesn’t always land in an interview.

      1. Lightbourne Elite*

        Love this. Also when you’re very steeped in pop culture/media those references sometimes just tend to happen. I’ve only made such a reference once in my life during an interview (and was told later it’s part of why I got the job: they knew I’d fit in with the team) but pop culture references absolutely get made by me at work. People who don’t get them will survive just fine.

        1. Jackalope*

          Obviously they will survive just fine, but during an interview will it make them more or less likely to hire you? It’s one thing to make such references at your actual current job that you already have, another to use it to try to score points during an interview. It worked out in your favor for your current job and I’m happy to hear it! But that doesn’t mean it would work out all the time.

        2. Clea*

          Survive? Sure. Like you, admire you, relate to you, think of you as a polished and professional person they want to promote? Maybe not so much.

          I guess it all depends on your goal.

          1. Lightbourne Elite*

            LOL this is so overblown. If someone decides one is unprofessional because they made a pop culture reference, they’re the person with the problem. I am polished and professional. I also know The Simpsons really well. If you think the two can’t coexist, do some self-examination.

            1. Allonge*

              It’s not about knowing the Simpsons, Game of Thrones, Stargate or any other phenomenon.

              It’s being able to communicate appropriately to the situation – which is a job interview – without a reference to any of the above.

        3. Jennifer Strange*

          There’s a difference between making them at work (where you’re a known entity) and in a job interview (where you’re not). I say this as someone who also tends to make pop culture references (mostly with my husband and friends, but occasionally at work).

    6. Someone**

      One thing I have thought of is that even if the interviewer does get the reference, they may interpret it differently.

      I like British sitcoms such as Dad’s Army. If you don’t know Dad’s Army, the problem here is simple, but everyone I know (not exaggerating) has heard of it. Many news articles say that badly run events or projects are like something out of Dad’s Army. The characters are often imagined as bumbling old fools and a stupid boy.

      However, a common re-interpretation is that the Dad’s Army characters are brave, courageous heroes who have volunteered their time for a good cause.

  3. Certaintroublemaker*

    At this point I would absolutely ask one of the VPs to get the fantasy draft money from the president, and/or ask for last year’s and this year’s money up front.

    1. GammaGirl1908*

      Then, in the future, you send out an email on the last Tuesday saying something like, “Fantasy league payment cutoff is Friday! All participants need to have paid by Friday at 5 PM.” Then you send out one more reminder on Friday at noon, and then lop off anybody who hasn’t paid and call it good.

    3. Commenter 505*

      Or talk to the gatekeeper. The one who has direct access and face time with the president every day. Email his assistant.

      1. Jaunty Banana Hat I*

        This is what I was coming to say–dude surely has an assistant, and this is the kind of thing they are great at handling.

  4. Dram*

    You haven’t worked for billionaires if you think they aren’t intentionally withholding money…had a friend that worked as a fitness instructor and billionaires always dodged payment. They didn’t become billionaires because they’re good people.

    1. Nodramalama*

      The fact that the company is a multi billion dollar company doesn’t mean the president isn’t a billionaire.

      1. Free Market*

        Exactly. Dram seems to have a chip on her shoulder towards the rich (and successful). And gyms usually charge in advance, not in arrears.

      2. Your former password resetter*

        They generally got rich through inheritance or exploiting lots of other people, which definitely requires a type of “fudge you got mine” attitude.
        Combine that with being insulated from the consequences of their actions, and a lot of turborich people almost make it a principle that they shouldn’t have to do things like pay for things, or follow the rules.

        1. Irish Teacher.*

          And they also often lack understanding of being on a tight budget, so they may not see things like being late with a payment as a big deal. It doesn’t always occur to them that the other person may be waiting on that payment to pay a bill as they are used to having savings or a trust fund you can “dip into” if you don’t get paid on time.

          It’s not even necessarily about being bad people, just that we all tend to see our lives as normal and if you have grown up in a world where breaches of the rules have no negative consequences, either when you are the one breaking the rules or when you are the victim of the rule breaking (another kid broke your toy as a child and mommy or daddy just bought you a new one or a teacher picked on you, so your parents moved you to a private school away from that teacher)…well, I guess if that’s all you’ve known, it’s easy to see the rules as “petty little regulations…basically just red tape that you’re just being smart if you manage to avoid.”

          1. Emmy Noether*

            Yes, I think obliviousness is the most likely answer.

            Also consider that one of the greatest perks of being very rich is that you don’t have to stay on top of your life admin as diligently. A lot of stuff you have people that take care of it, and if something slips through the cracks… you just pay the late fee or whatever, no big deal.

            To insert a pop culture reference (hah!), it’s the “It’s One Banana, Michael. What Could It Cost, 10 Dollars?” effect. Being sufficiently out of touch that you never take care of things (buy your bananas) yourself AND you don’t know the value of money (10 dollars is immaterial).

            1. MK*

              It’s also possible the CEO isn’t handling his own email, ans his PA isn’t prioritizing reminding him about this.

          2. Hyaline*

            I feel like it’s usually more of a Great Gatsby “they were careless people” kind of thing than an intentional attempt to withhold $50 and screw someone. What’s fifty bucks between friends? What’s five hundred? A few thousand? It’s just pocket change, who cares?

      3. Artemesia*

        Well we can all name one current ‘billionaire’ whose mode of business was stiffing contractors and bankrupting after racking in all the cash so only his investors lost. There are plenty of wealthy people who are ungenerous and notorious for not paying there bills.

        1. MK*

          All of us can also name dishonest people who aren’t rich. I doubt there is a correlation between a person not paying small debts and their net worth.

          1. mlem*

            There absolutely is a class of rich people who credit nickel-and-diming every transaction for their continued wealth. Read up on J. Paul Getty. Certainly that doesn’t mean there aren’t poor people who stiff bills; just that it’s far easier to 1) do in volume and 2) get away with if you’re wealthy.

            1. Emmy Noether*

              Those people are wrong (and probably the same ones advising to skip avocado toasts to get rich). You’d have to swindle someone out of 50$ every day for 55 years to get a million if you do it indiviually. You have to find more efficient ways of swindling if you want to be rich.

              1. Happy*

                It’s the mindset that gets them exorbitantly rich – not individual counts of $50, but the “other people don’t matter” attitude.

      4. Roland*

        They didn’t say they got rich because of stiffing people, they said billionaires aren’t good people and stiffing people is also “not good” behavior. Ofc this guy is probably not a billionaire so not sure if it applies.

  5. Honoria Lucasta*

    As someone pretty allergic to cats myself, I would like to let people interested in LW1’s letter know that most of the time the allergen is not cat hair but cat saliva. There’s a protein in cat saliva that triggers the allergic reaction, which is why even hairless cats can cause an allergy attack. Vacuuming and lint rolling can help somewhat—because they remove hair which is covered in the protein from the cat grooming itself—but even the most fastidious hair-removal is not going to be a full solution.

    Sorry! My best friend has a cat and I ended up with nosebleeds when I slept on her couch, even though she gave me a brand new pillow that we locked away during the day. I wish it were easier, but I sure sympathize with LW1’s team member.

    1. Ariaflame*

      Unfortunately the HypoCat vaccine which is given to the cats to stop them generating the proteins in saliva that people are allergic to probably won’t be fully on the market for about 4 years.

      1. Free Market*

        What is this HypoCat vaccine? Tell us more!

        There was a startup about 15 years ago that was trying to genetically engineer cats that shed much less FEL-D1. It seems to have disappeared, although others are looking into it.

        1. AP*

          It’s not here yet but purina have a cat food called LiveClear which helps reduce the FEL-D1 protein! It works great for me! I will say it’s not the most nutritious food I could be feeding my cats but we decided they would prefer to eat a little junk over being rehomed, which was unfortunately where it was going with my breathing problems. I mix it with little wet food so they’re getting some protein and it works pretty well.

          1. AP*

            Sorry that was so unclear at the start! The vaccine isn’t here yet, the cat food is, at least in the Uk (but have read it’s available in other places too)

            1. Hush42*

              Yeah, my brother uses it for his cat (in the US). It’s worked really great for him. I’ll be switching my cat to it soon too. It is definitely more expensive than regular cat food so I’ve been making do with Zyrtec for a while but I had to stop for a week for Allergy testing and have decided that it’s probably better for my body to just remove the allergen from my home as much as I can vs. treating it every day.

              Also, I haven’t tried it but I have seen ads for a spray that is supposed to remove the cat allergens too. But I am not sure how well that works.

        2. Beth*

          The scientist who founded that start-up fell into the hands of a con artist, who co-opted the company and used it to sell ordinary cats at insanely inflated prices. Then the con artist skipped the country with the money, leaving the scientist with a ruined reputation and no capital to pursue his image.

          In addition to the con artist, there had also been a good deal of pearl-clutching uproar from the kind of activists who believe that all genetic engineering is Evil and Will Destroy Us All. That made it even harder to raise capital for the project. Never mind that there are cats who don’t generate those proteins at all (it can occur as a natural mutation) and are perfectly healthy.

          I spent years clinging to the hopes that I’d finally be able to have a cat — I’m as desperately allergic as the co-worker in the letter — and I was following the rise and fall of that company’s hopes pretty closely. I’m still bummed out.

          I’ve never heard of the HypoCat vaccine before! Maybe there’s hope yet?

    3. Sneaky Squirrel*

      Yes, as someone allergic to most furry friends, there is a lot of misinformation out there about animal allergies and treatments. The allergen is not just in the hair – it’s also in the saliva and the skin cells. Truly hypoallergenic dogs & cats do not exist even though some have a reputation to be that way – and people with severe pet allergies often are recommended to have a trial period before committing to one as a pet.

      I’m a huge advocate for pet-free workplaces because people with pet allergies are often disregarded and told to pop some allergy medicine and get over it. Some days, an allergy pill works for me and I’m grand. Other days, you’ll see me standing outside with a rescue inhaler because I can no longer breathe. People who know me also know that I’m a compulsive hand washer around animals because I don’t want to risk accidentally rubbing the allergens in my eyes and face. Vacuuming on the regular is great to help contain the allergens, but it can also potentially make things worse because it stirs up those allergens into the air.

      1. UKDancer*

        Yes, also allergy medication has side effects. I have an allergy to dogs, cats and rabbits (other pets may also be relevant). If I have to be around them knowingly and in close proximity I will take anti histamine medication which usually helps (although not always). It does have side effects and usually winds up giving me really bad constipation and a very dry mouth. So I prefer not to have to take it unless it’s unavoidable. I mean it’s good it exists but it’s not a magic bullet.

        So we have the Guide Dog association in twice per year and I support them so I go along and take medication and wash my hands a lot. If I have to work on a project with my colleague who has a lovely guide dog I will always propose Teams meetings for our mutual comfort because it works a lot better that way.

      2. Orv*

        Most workplaces I’ve been in have been pet free. That said, what this situation would require is a workplace where no one who works there has a pet, which seems like it would be a bridge too far.

      3. Humble Schoolmarm*

        I’m glad to hear I’m not the only one who finds allergy pills hit or miss. Sometimes they work perfectly, others I get this feeling like I’m trying to hold back a sneeze and a tingling that doesn’t quite turn into a full itch, still others it’s like I both didn’t take anything at all and buried my nose in the cat’s fur. Pet friendly workplaces are my horror.

    4. Meep*

      +1 My BIL is allergic to both cat hair and saliva. It is nice in this instance in that it keeps him away from my house, tbh. Everyone else I am sympathetic to, because it sucks.

    5. Filosofickle*

      And so much depends on the combo of person + cat. I’m allergic to cats, but can usually manage visits of 1-2 hours if I minimize contact with surfaces, don’t touch the cat, and definitely don’t touch my face. Plus lots of hand-washing. But I’ve also been to homes where sneezing started at the front door, and once even had a situation like LW1 where simply sitting next to someone at a business conference had me itching like mad. I like cats and would probably have one if I weren’t allergic.

  6. learnedthehardway*

    I hope that OP#2 realized that her new colleagues’ behaviour was NOT a reflection on her. I’m sure that her former colleagues noticed how uncomfortable she was and her efforts to get back to the main topic.

    I’d have called them to express my regrets and disappointment that this happened, and that their time had been wasted, of course, but I’m sure that the former coworkers wouldn’t have held it against the OP. They might have felt that she had joined a company with a not great culture or that some of her new coworkers were unprofessional, but that’s hardly OP’s fault.

    1. Sloanicota*

      That said, it seems impossible to me that you can’t fix a derailed meeting. I mean, at some point I think you stop the conversation and ask a few people to leave since they can’t focus on the agenda. It’s extreme but it sounds like that’s the level this meeting was at.

      1. Jackalope*

        That would be really tough to do, though, especially given that she just started there so doesn’t have a lot of political capital built up, and has to keep working with the new team. I have never in multiple decades of working ever seen someone in a work meeting kick another attendee out for being disruptive or a jerk at the meeting. That would be the nuclear action and the OP might have to deal with a ton of fallout afterward.

    2. Slow Gin Lizz*

      I would like an update from that LW. I hope the former colleagues didn’t hold what happened against that LW.

  7. StrikeThatReverseIt*

    OP4, interestingly, I’ve had it go the other way a lot. I’ve stopped playing office sports pools because I’ve had so much trouble getting payouts since everything moved online 20+ years ago. My first experience with this was partly my fault in that I asked to have my winnings ride to cover the next year’s fees (at the time I was playing/paying for a weekly picks NFL pool at a former employer for both me and my father and PayPal was fairly new/none of the other services existed yet; one or the other of us usually won at least once per season and the winnings were generally a few $$$ more than the entry fees for two for a year). Well, I played an entire season with two sets of wins supposedly on my account when I got a bill for a few hundred dollars to cover both of us for that just completed year. When I provided proof of the communications around reinvesting the money they shrugged and said they didn’t do that and why would I think they would (ignoring both that I clearly hadn’t gotten paid and that they had carried over the money several times in the past at that point).

    At two subsequent employers I lost a lot less money, but I never got paid for winning the March Madness pool. At that point, even though it does increase my enjoyment of the various sporting events, I stopped playing in pools (my last few employers haven’t had the option).

    I may do it again in the future for small stakes if the opportunity arises because it does make me more engaged/get more enjoyment out of watching, but I will not expect to get paid if I win – I’ll treat it like an entertainment fee. If I do get paid out any winnings I’ll think of it as a bonus.

    1. Free Market*

      LW4’s husband is a mid-level employee who has networked his way into a small social group of C-suite and VP executives.

      Ideally the CEO would pay up, of course. But if he doesn’t, that $50 is worth it weight in gold. Te husband would be a fool to withdraw from such a powerful social circle over it.

      1. StrikeThatReverseIt*

        Well, if the main goal is to hobnob with the directors then I wouldn’t make any efforts to get paid. It’s too risky.

    2. Nilsson Schmilsson*

      Twenty five years ago (at least), a guy at work started a March Madness pool. When the winner came to collect, the organizer said he had taken the money to the track to bet on a “sure thing.” And promptly lost it all. The winner suggested that the organizer find the money within 30 day to avoid any sort of “conflict”. It worked and he was paid in full. No surprise that the organizer was a horrible employee and was ultimately let go, because he was involved in “pay to play” with our vendors.

  8. CHRISTOPHER FRANKLIN*

    Ooh, I forgot that letter… I am extremely allergic to dogs and cats and very aware when I am in the presence of someone who has them. Ironically, I worked in a parasitology lab which studied proteases (the reason people are allergic to dog and cat saliva is that the proteases in the saliva is structurally similar to the proteases that parasites use to enter the body and mature. Likewise is true of the protease that is carried into dust via dust mite droppings). At least once a year, my face would swell and my throat would start to constrict and, invariably, some MD in the lab would shout across the room: “Chris, your face is swollen!”.

    1. Hlao-roo*

      Thanks for sharing. I never thought of the “why” behind dog/cat/dust allergies before–very interesting!

  9. Someone*

    There is a case where referencing pop culture works. When I was in a team reviewing a document, one helper told me that a sentence sounded ‘like something Sir Humphrey Appleby would say’, which I mentioned in a later interview. The interviewers understood the reference instantly. In this case, it was legitimate because pop culture was directly involved in the example.
    I didn’t get the job, but the feedback was related to other matters, not the reference to Yes Minister.

    1. Squid*

      See I have zero idea what you are referencing (and will look it up shortly), but I would have been confused if someone said this in an interview – and it would distract me from the actual matter at hand (thank you, ADHD).

      1. UKDancer*

        I think as Humphrey Appleby was a civil servant renowned for being slippery, evasive and somewhat devious, this reference probably works if you’re applying for a UK civil service job because a lot of civil servants are familiar with the reference although fewer now than in the past because it’s not recent. Malcolm Tucker or Francis Urquhart are probably more familiar to younger people if you want UK political references and they’re dating somewhat.

        As the series was popular a while ago (I mean I watched it at university when studying law and politics) but has reruns you’re probably less likely to score if you are being interviewed by people under 40.

          1. Flor*

            Also a good example of how they fail if either the interviewer or interviewee is an immigrant, even between countries with a lot of shared pop culture like the US and the UK. An American candidate saying they’ve worked with a boss like Angela from The Office (as mentioned in the OP) would likely confuse a British interviewer who had seen the original show, who would be wondering why they don’t remember an Angela.

          2. Strive to Excel*

            Oh absolutely. I’m in a friend group with a notable age gap (oldest friends are old enough to easily be youngest friends parents) and a running in-joke is reminding each other of our respective ages. It’s funny in that group of friends to say “oh hey. That thing you’re referencing. It was popular before I was born”. Less funny when that happens in a job interview.

        2. MsM*

          Yeah, it’s like bringing up The West Wing in an interview with the Harris campaign: most people will probably know what you’re trying to evoke in broad strokes, but a younger millennial/Gen Z interviewer might just blink if you mention CJ doing the Jackal.

      2. DJ Abbott*

        It would distract me too, and I don’t have ADHD. I have no idea who this person referenced is, and don’t want to take the time away from what I’m doing to find out.

      3. Someone*

        Sorry, writing in a hurry earlier. I still am!

        It was a direct quote from the project. I didn’t make it up in the interview. A colleague during the project had used that phrase to explain just how bad a section of the public document was.
        That pop culture reference had a direct impact on our plans to make the document usable, so I mentioned it as part of the explanation of our project.

        I may have been wrong, and it was the only interview where I quoted my colleague, but it mattered in the real project.

        1. Hilla*

          I don’t get why you think this helped. You referenced something someone else had said, and it worked out OK because the interviewer knew the reference. You could surely have made the same point without the reference, though? And thus not taken the risk that you’d have to explain the reference. So why do you think this was a good strategy?

          1. Someone*

            It wasn’t a strategy. The quote had stuck in my mind ever since we made the project and it just came out during the interview. During 2021, the project was an example I usually used in applications, not interviews.
            However, the interview was an active conversation, covering more than I usually mentioned in written statements. At some point, I said it, realised what I’d said, and then just carried on my explanation. It was probably something on the lines of “The current version of the document sounds like a sitcom parody of an obstructive government official, so we have a lot of work to do making it user-friendly”.
            Mind you, I haven’t had much reason to think about this case until now. Probably posting it here as something that works was a mistake that I clearly hadn’t written very well earlier.

        2. Caramel & Cheddar*

          “That pop culture reference had a direct impact on our plans to make the document usable”

          I don’t think that’s the right takeaway here, to be honest. The takeaway is that getting a second set of eyes to look at the document ensured that the team updated that section of the document to make it more usable for the public. That your colleague prompted this by making a joke that you all, as an in-group, understood is secondary to the fact that the colleague was pointing out the problems with the document. If none of you had understood the joke, your colleague would have expanded on their point and the outcome would have been the same.

          That the reference was a direct quote from your colleague doesn’t make it more understandable to future audiences you might tell this story to, but explaining the material parts of what did happen (review cycle > identifying issues > updating them) will be easily understood by anyone who hears it.

    2. MK*

      Your interviewer happened to know and remember “Yes, Minister, and I would bet they are the exception rather than the rule. Did it really add anything positive to your interview interaction?

      1. Someone*

        The main interviewer burst out laughing. The others also started laughing, though whether they understood too or were laughing because the boss was is hard to remember. It was in 2021 and I was still getting used to interviewing again.
        As I replied to Squid though, it was a direct quote from a colleague during the planning stage of project, not a reference that I made up on the spot.

    3. Lady Penny Parker*

      I have no idea what that reference is about, and if you had said that in an interview with me I would have thought you were being pretentious and name-dropping.

      In your case, it only “worked” because the interviewer knew your reference. But it’s still a risk. The fact that it might occasionally work out OK does not make it a good strategy.

    4. Someone*

      I’ll have to withdraw this example. I haven’t thought about this interview in 3 years, but this letter was bringing back memories.

      Nonetheless, it wasn’t the riskiest thing I’ve said in an interview. In the interview that got me the best job I’ve had so far, I mentioned theories about poor quality management in large organisations… to a group of managers in a large organisation. I got the job!

      1. Hlao-roo*

        For what it’s worth, I thought your original comment was clear that you were sharing a successful example of referencing pop culture from your past, not trying to prove that everyone will understand a reference to Yes Minister.

        1. EDIA*

          +1 on that sentiment and sympathies to Someone. Sometimes it feels like commenters here only deal in absolutes.

            1. EDIA*

              Yes, as noted by Hlao-roo, and to which I agree with. Someone did bring up that “it worked once for me” “one case” and pretty much every comment in reply is refuting the experience they chose to share.

  10. BellaStella*

    On collecting money from colleagues especially higher ups, I personally try to avoid being the collector. I also in four years only donated to two employees going away gifts. I am not paid enough as a worker to do this frequently and we are not allowed to gamble either in my workplace. I think good management pays up first to set good examples.

    1. Hush42*

      If I were in this position there is a 0% chance I would be asking our president for money myself, even though he is a super nice guy. I would absolutely be going to my boss (our CFO) and asking him to check in with the president about the payment. Honestly, knowing my boss he would probably just reimburse me himself and then deal with getting that money from the President separately so that I wasn’t waiting on the money. I would likely do this if it was anyone on the C suite too. I have worked here long enough, and through our transition from a small company with 1 layer of management to a much larger company with a C suite, Directors, Managers, and Team Leads that I have a good relationship with everyone in the C suite. But something like this is still uncomfortable enough that I’d get my boss to handle it.

      1. Czhorat*

        I agree, and this is another issue of the power imbalance; it’s *really* hard for a lower level employee to nag a c-suite exec for delinquent payment the way you would a peer.

        I think it’s fine to ask once; an exec is still a person. If they say no and it gets contentious then I completely get your point.

  11. Morning Reader*

    Wait, you have to pay money to do those fantasy sports things? I thought it was a matter of picking hypothetical teams and then feeling cheery if the real people represented did well that week. But it’s essentially sports gambling? And that is encouraged/allowed at work places? Wow.

    1. Falling Diphthong*

      There are office pools for money, and office pools for glory. Can be sports, but Oscar winners are also popular.

      I play in a Survivor league, and the prize is bragging rights. I have a screen cap of the week I was tied for first, and if you think the fact that my team was chosen by a random number generator even slightly decreased my thrill level you would be wrong.

    2. Insert Clever Name Here*

      It’s a setting that you can control (is it on or off? If on, how much is the fee?) when you create your league for each season.

    3. Hiring Mgr*

      Sports, Oscars, Baby born dates – these are all pretty common things that office folk will gamble on and have pools for.

      1. Momentarily confused, perpetually perplexed*

        This is totally unrelated but your name is a great example of why abbreviating titles is often totally unnecessary (e.g., changing Senior to Sr.) and potentially confusing. I read your name as Hiring Monseigneur and momentarily thought you were hiring for the priesthood!

          1. Momentarily confused, perpetually perplexed*

            I’ve not heard of that but I’ll be sure to add it to my list. Thanks for the recommendation!

      2. Morning Reader*

        I understand the office pools and have participated on occasion. But they were $1 a square for the baby date thing, or similar for a shared lottery ticket. Doing anything that costs $50 to gamble seems like bookie territory. And problematic as the LW relates; how to get people to pay up? Seems like you’d need an enforcer, e.g. “sure would be a shame if something happened to this stapler.”

        1. StrikeThatReverseIt*

          Well, for something like a football pool, you’re playing every week for a full season, so it adds up even if the entry fee is $3-5.

          Most of the one-off pools I’ve played were for ~$20. Something like playoff squares have usually been ~$5/square, but many people buy more than one square.

          FWIW, I’ve never encountered this type of activity where there wasn’t a buy-in/payout or for anything other than sports.

          It’s not supposed to be great sums of money; $50 is on the high end if it’s for a single event.

        2. Czhorat*

          It really depends on the workplace; in a setting where everyone is making somewhere in the six figures $50 could be just enough to keep it interesting.

          Football pools have been a staple of pretty much every office where I’ve worked; it’s usually low enough stakes that people take it as fun.

        3. Abigail*

          I really don’t think $50 is “bookie territory.”

          I get you don’t like them but let’s not be extreme.

        4. Antilles*

          $50 is indeed a bit on the high side, I’ve normally seen the price point at more like $20 for the season.
          That said, from a purely math standpoint, $50 for an 18-week NFL season works out to like $2.80 per week, which most people would willingly invest in their hobby. By comparison, college basketball March Madness pools are often $5-10 for a three-week event, so the per-week price isn’t drastically different.

        5. Hush42*

          Yeah, this seems strange to me too. Our company doesn’t really do office pools. They do March Madness Brackets and Super Bowl Squares but in both cases the participation fee is $0 and the prize money is 100% funded by the company directly as part of the employee engagement budget. Anything with a $50 fee seems wild and out of touch to me.

    4. Pay no attention...*

      You don’t have to pay to play — I’m in a Fantasy Football league just like you describe, no money, all for the bragging rights and fun. My org does indeed ban betting pools for anything.

    5. Freya*

      In Australia, footy tipping is often administered using a service provided by a major betting company, which is free to use. The prizes (if any) are either provided as gifts by the employer providing the tipping competition (which here has no tax implications for the employee) or funded by the buy-in fee if there is one. There’s rules, like you have to provide all participants with a copy of the rules – and in my state, if the buy-in fees add up to more than $25k, then the organiser has to get a permit (because it’s considered a type of ‘progressive lottery’ and thems the laws for lotteries).

  12. Anon for This*

    Fantasy Football – in my experience, execs at that level don’t really read their own e-mails. I recommend you loop in the exec’s secretary or executive assistant. That’s how it will get done. And don’t let anyone who hasn’t paid join for the next year until they’ve cleared the debt.

    1. Fsp3*

      This is why every league I’ve been in has required paying up by draft day. Makes sure all dues are accounted for and ensures people who join the league are committed to it, at least to the dollar value they put in.

  13. Czhorat*

    Letter 4 reminds me of the time we had a blind pool for the superbowl and the big winner was the owner of the company! We all rolled our eyes a bit at the guy whose name was on the letterhead being the big winner, and he must have realized the problematic optics as well because he spent the winnings on a pizza party for the office. I think that’s a good way for an owner or high-level exec to handle that sort of thing even.

    I do think the imbalance makes it a bit of an issue for high level execs to participate if they aren’t going to give away or donate the winnings; it’s a bit unsavory for them to be winning money from lower-level and lower-paid employees. In any event, it’s completely unreasonable for an exec to be a deadbeat; if he can’t pay up on time he shouldn’t have participated. I’m annoyed on that long-ago LW’s behalf.

    1. Scarlet ribbons in her hair*

      I don’t know what a blind pool is, but if the owner of the company was allowed to participate, then no one should have rolled their eyes when he won. I can’t imagine allowing someone to participate but not wanting him to win, or, if he does win, then he has to spend the money on a pizza party. If that’s the way everyone feels, then don’t let the owner participate. I wouldn’t like it if I won a Superbowl pool fair and square and then felt forced to spend the money on a pizza party instead of something that I really wanted, just to keep people from rolling their eyes at me.

      1. Czhorat*

        It was his choice, and one that helped in maintain good will among the employees. Joining the pool was an action of solidarity. Giving the money back in a way was a way to note that he understands the dynamic and does not want to be perceived as taking money from the staff, even as a manner of luck.

        Your expectations are different if your name is on the letterhead; this reminds me of the person who talked about being a good leader. I thought that in this case he got it right.

  14. HannahS*

    As it happens, I’m watching Parks and Rec for the first time now, and have watched FRIENDS a bajillion times and if someone indicated to me that they thought Leslie Knope was their role model or compared themselves favorably to Monica, I’d probably lean away from hiring them.

    Leslie is annoying! (said affectionately) It’s part of what makes her funny; she goes WAY too far. She also breaks a lot of municipal policies and has a terrible sense of work/life balance. Monica’s cleanliness is also often too much, and annoys others because she loses sight of the big picture. These aren’t meant to be role models of working adults; it’s comedy! But I don’t want to work in a sitcom.

    I think comparing yourself to a fictional character does come across as immature. Not because of the specific content–those are shows for adults, and I’d think similarly if someone compared themselves to Gandalf or President Bartlett. It’s that these are not real people. They do not have to function in a real world. I put so much more stock in someone who says, “You know, I really admired my first boss, Yolanda. She had this incredible ability to [do awesome thing] and I took away that [I too can so awesome thing.]”

    1. toolegittoresign*

      I agree. I would also be concerned that it signals a misunderstanding of what a real workplace should be like — which is actually pretty boring! Ideally, a real workplace just has everyone get along and there’s little to no drama, pranks, big personalities, etc.

    2. Observer*

      But I don’t want to work in a sitcom.

      Yes, that’s a problem with these particular examples, on top of everything else.

      I don’t want to work in a sitcom (horrible real life environments!) nor soap operas or high fantasy, high conflict dramas (also not good work environments!). Characters that only work because of these environments generally don’t actually work all that well in real life.

  15. Dido*

    Quite frankly, I don’t know if describing yourself as “Monica Geller-esq” and “inspired by Leslie Knope” would endear you to interviewers

    1. Hush42*

      That is a really good point. I almost think that, in some cases, it might be worse if the interviewer were familiar with those characters. Monica’s need for cleanliness was meant to be funny on the show but in real life would rise to the level of concerning. Even in the show there were times when it got in the way of her actually being able to function normally.
      Leslie Knope, while admirable, lacked normal boundaries in many cases.
      The problem with comparing yourself to these fictional characters is that people have really widely varying opinions of them. So you might see yourself comparing to what you think are positive traits but you don’t know if your interviewer thinks that Monica Geller is the most annoying character on TV.

  16. Pastor Petty Labelle*

    #2, I do wonder how the team turned out. They were supposed to being brought up to industry standards. If they spent their time focusing on complaining about others, did they ever become more professional? Did they ever get up to standards?

  17. Hiring Mgr*

    I knew it was a bad move when I mentioned that I would help the company crush the competition like Lucy Ricardo stomped those grapes, and the interviewer just sat there stone faced.

  18. MicroManagered*

    On #3, I think you can pull this off if you keep the pop culture reference VERY brief and make sure you are also saying enough that someone who doesn’t get the reference would still know what you are saying.

    For example, if you just say my old supervisor was like Angela from the Office, that won’t make any sense if they’ve never seen the show.

    So you’d want to say that you once had a supervisor who had a reputation of being a stickler for rules, sometimes to an absurd extreme, and she could be so direct that her feedback was sometimes hurtful… kind of like Angela from The Office, if you like that show… And here are 3 ways I worked with that difficult individual, etc. etc.

    I would still be careful with those pop culture references just because they can derail the conversation or put you in a weird spot of over-explaining a character reference nobody gets. And of course, read the room.

    1. Caramel & Cheddar*

      I think your example is a good one for illustrating why the pop culture reference isn’t necessary, to be honest! i.e. You took the time to describe the colleague in a detailed enough way that I know exactly what kind of person we’re talking about, so dropping in the bit about Angela from the Office just feels redundant at that point.

    2. Figaro*

      But by the time you’ve done that, why mention the TV show at all?

      Seems all risk and no clear benefit.

  19. Juicebox Hero*

    I was in college when Friends was new (1994-8) and huge and everywhere. I mean, people were scheduling study sessions and even dates around it. People were booking the conference rooms and TVs so that people who didn’t have TVs in their dorms could watch it. The theme song was on the radio approximately 97 trillion times a minute. When people weren’t watching it, they were discussing it, trying to book haircuts to get a Rachel, sporting Friends themed apparel, and quoting it. Had there been a local coffee house, it would have been packed to the rafters every evening and probably renamed.

    I’ve only sat through a few episodes, involuntarily. The main cast struck me as a bunch of shallow, horrible people happening annoyingly at each other. I would literally rather study calculus than watch it, which naturally got me singled out as “the Friends hater” and endlessly quoted at and teased until I developed a knack for staring silently at people over the top of my glasses.

    I’m not saying I’d reject a candidate who self-identified as a Friends character out of hand just for that. I’d completely do it and then name a different reason. That’s one of the many reasons I’m not a hiring manager XD

    1. Orv*

      It’s apparently big with Gen Z now. My theory is it’s why they think Gen X had it so easy; they see Friends and think that Gen X lived in a golden age when a marginally-employed single person could afford a huge apartment in New York City.

    2. metadata minion*

      “The main cast struck me as a bunch of shallow, horrible people happening annoyingly at each other.”

      Thank you for that phrase; that is exactly my reaction to so many sitcoms!

      1. I Have RBF*

        Same here. I stopped enjoying sitcoms in my teens, when I started dealing more with the real world instead of just school and TV. That and the quality of the plots went into the toilet – they all seemed to revolve around who was dating/banging who. Boring as hell.

  20. Strive to Excel*

    Pop culture references – don’t do it. You never know what people have seen or not seen; or what they may have found offensive or unpleasant. It’s not the worst thing you can do, and it’s unlikely to tank your candidacy, but it’s not likely to help either.

    1. Nana Kathie*

      Literally fifty years ago, a friend was at a high-tension meeting of Big Executives and someone suggested getting coffee…and he chimed in “and a [deep voice] COOKIE” and everyone laughed. Men in their early 30’s, most of whom had little children, and everyone had seen/heard Cookie Monster on “Sesame Street.”

      1. metadata minion*

        Ok, that one is perfect. Sesame Street is something that almost everyone who grew up in the US is at least passively aware of, and I think the combination of “high tension exec meeting” and “show for small children” hits just the right humor if you can pull it off (which I assume this guy could).

  21. Money? Never heard of her.*

    5 – Rich people stay rich because they are cheapskates. They pretend to be so ignorant of money.

  22. LingNerd*

    My cat allergy was never at the level of reacting to the clothes of other people, but I’m pretty sure that I have reacted to wearing sweaters washed in a shared washing machine. I had to leave work a few times because it was so bad. I can’t know for certain, but it’s the only thing that made sense in context. So I absolutely believe that someone could have an allergy even more sensitive to the point where they react to being near someone who owns a cat.

    Lucky for me, I’ve been able to get allergy shots for the last few years. I’m still allergic to cats, but I have reached my primary goal of being able to take an antihistamine and visit a home with a cat without being utterly miserable. I hope that the colleague has been able to get allergy shots since then too because that sounds severe enough to have a measurable negative impact on their life. The unpredictability of encountering animal allergens probably makes it really hard to manage!

    1. Fleur-de-Lis*

      I’m LW#1 – my colleague wasn’t able to get allergy shots because they were pretty reactive to those, too! I also am happy to report that the university’s culture has definitely shifted to more hybrid meetings. They weren’t great at it until after the pandemic, as reported by my friends who still work there.

    2. Meep*

      Part of it is definitely my BIL being a dramatic little sh*t who cannot handle any discomfort to a point he would call a papercut a 10 on the pain tolerance scale (he sneezed once a grand total of ONE time after spending five days with us in an AirBnb and blamed our cats, ignoring the fact we were wearing clothes that had never been in the house and borrowed suitcases as a courtesy & thinks he is allergic to carbon…) but yeah some people are really sensitive to all parts cats. Someone above mentioned it isn’t just fur but skin cells and saliva. He is allergic all three*, though, again I don’t know how actually severe his allergies are in this case, because like I said, he is a massive baby if he isn’t feeling 100% comfy.

      *Only reason I believe him is his father and grandmother are also, but theirs is not as “severe”.

  23. Please, no cats!*

    Cat allergens are microscopic and airborne. My allergist once explained to me that a cat could be confined to one room of a house, and within hours, the entire house will be filled with airborne allergens that are microscopic and incredibly sticky, adhering to everything. The same is not true of most other pets, which is why cat allergies often cause so many dramatic responses.

    1. Fleur-de-Lis*

      I’m LW#1. I’ve also learned from friends with allergies that some cats are more allergy-response-making than others. Sadly, my two who created this response in my colleague have since passed away. The kitties I have now seem to prompt less dramatic symptoms in my friends who are allergic.

      1. Melody Powers*

        That’s very true. I used to work with a dog breeder of a breed considered hypoallergenic. Individual animals will produce more or less allergens and individual humans will react differently to them. We would have people come to meet several different puppies to find one that they didn’t react to (at different times so if they had a reaction they knew which one they were reacting to). Some people wouldn’t find any that worked for them, but others would be able to have a dog for the first time in their lives.

        It’s really exciting to see all the news in the comments here about advancements that are helping people with allergies have cats too.

      2. Freya*

        Dogs, too – my cane corso is so uber-allergenic that he licked one of the staff at the vets and by the time his check-up was over, she’d already got a rash (and as a vet employee, she had no severe allergies to animals that she knew of). My father-in-law also reacts the same way, and the dog loooooooves licking him. My husband and I have decoy pillows so that the pillows we actually sleep on don’t get slept on by the pup while we’re at work (but I’m allergic to everything furry that can be tested for except rabbits, take daily antihistamines, and carry rescue antihistamines for when there’s an extra allergen in my environment)

  24. SusieQQ*

    LW3 – Another risk is that the person could receive the comment entirely differently from what you mean. I don’t think I would interpret any of your references positively. :-/ Here’s what I would glean from each of those (although if I were an interviewer, I’d ask probing questions).

    > Monica Geller-esque sense of neatness

    This person has is very sensitive to cleanliness and order, and won’t be able to work in a normal, lived-in office space. They may also take it upon themselves to clean or re-organize their co-workers’ work spaces.

    > I consider Leslie Knope to be one of my role models

    This person is well-intended but embraces toxic positivity and has trouble listening to other people. May also have trouble respecting people’s boundaries.

    > I had learned to work with a supervisor like Angela from The Office.

    Are they saying that because they have trouble working with conservative or religious people?

    1. Boss Scaggs*

      I think if someone actually knew all three references they would probably get the general idea that the OP was trying to get across. Monica – Organized, energetic. Leslie – Hard working, enthusiastic, ambitious. Angela – Critical, judgmental

      Not that it’s a good idea either way.

      1. Figaro*

        Yes but they might wonder if that person lacks self awareness about their own behaviours. They’re trying to communicate that they’re organised but by self describing as Monica they’re kind of indicating a potentially poor understanding of the difference between high professional organisational skills, and being an absolute control freak of a nightmare with underlying psychological issues.

  25. Charlotte*

    I know it’s old, but I wonder if another solution for LW1 would have been keeping her work wardrobe cat-free somehow. Maybe changing in a room or closet where the cats don’t go and making sure it’s the last thing she does when she leaves home and first thing she removes when she gets home. Laundering them as usual and storing them in the cat-free zone.

  26. Figaro*

    I would avoid pop culture references in interviews. It feels like all risk and no upside that can’t be achieved another way.

    1. You don’t know how they relate to those characters. Monica is annoying and unhealthily obsessive about cleanliness, control etc. A lot of people find Lesley Knope annoying. And even the Angela from the Office reference, which seems more clear cut, is a risk; there could be Christian Conservatives who are similar to Angela and don’t care for the portrayal, or people who have a weird take on/misreading of the show for all sorts of reasons.

    2. If they’ve vaguely heard of the show or seem it occasionally, they might not even be aware that they didn’t “get” the reference. They might misrememebr the character as someone terrible. They might think Janice was Monica.

    3. Everything in the interview should be about why you are the right person for this specific role. You have a short amount of time and they have a finite amount of attention, memory, etc. You want it all to be spent on thinking about why you are right for the role.

    4. It indicates a lack of awareness that all pop culture references are culture-specific and if the job involves communication, engaging with different types of people, understanding how different people think etc I would personally have a question mark over your ability to do that. It would mean I’d rule you out if you had other good examples of it, but definitely a big question mark.

    5. You’re just making an assertion. Examples and evidence from the real world are better. Demonstrate high organisational skills with an example of a project or event you organised successfully. Demonstrate dealing with difficult people with factual examples of what you did in a specific situation and what the outcome was.

    5. It might give the impression you lack those real world examples or reference points. Immature or inexperienced is probably what I’d wonder about. Does this candidate understand what a workplace is like and why it’s different to a sitcom?

    Once you have a job, occasional pop culture references are fine IMO though. They know you, and also, you know them, so you can get to understand if people know a particular show etc. Then you reference it and it builds connection; you’re not simply assuming that everyone watches the same things you do.

    But even then, if you constantly reference things people don’t know or care about, things that people now deem a bit problematic or basic or whatever, or if you overuse references to pop culture instead of work-related examples, it might still create a general impression of you which it might be better to avoid.

    1. Figaro*

      Sorry: “It would mean I’d rule you out if you had other good examples of it, but definitely a big question mark.”

      Obviously I meant to type “wouldn’t.”

  27. Figaro*

    By the way, I guess the specific examples aren’t so relevant now because the letter is so old, but is it really useful to highlight your tidiness in an interview?

    Strong organisational skills (with professionally relevant examples) yes, but isn’t basic level tidiness a standard expectation? And tidiness beyond standard professional norms probably isn’t hugely relevant in most jobs?

    Someone who talks about their tidiness and cleanliness in an interview risks sounding like that’s one of their skills, when in fact keeping your work area reasonably tidy is a bit like showering before work or wearing clean clothes: noteworthy only if you don’t do it.

  28. 90s kid*

    Isn’t almost every character in Friends kind of terrible at their jobs most of the time, or constantly having issues with their bosses? Isn’t there a whole joke about how they are all in the coffee house during work hours etc?

    Perhaps Monica less so than the others, but an interviewer could easily have that general impression of the show.

  29. musical chairs*

    It’s funny, citing references like this would go one of two ways for me, albeit both to little consequence.

    I’m someone who has Opinions about TV shows/media, but understands people can like whatever they want. I just really like what I like and really hate what I hate.

    I *really* hate two of the three shows cited and I would first think you have bad taste for watching them. Even though, from mere reference, I wouldn’t know if you even liked them! It’s not logical, just my gut reaction. However, I am virtually never interviewing for good taste in television. So I’d be hyper aware of how my unconscious assumptions about your decision making are affecting my evaluations of your candidacy. I’d be annoyed that you’re making me do all this work to overlook your bad taste! Just have better taste so I can do my job lol.

    Conversely, say you made references to some show that I just love or think is really well done. I am still not interviewing for good taste! Now I gotta make sure I’m not filling in gaps for you in my head cause I think you make good media consumptions choices for the Right Reasons. Again, I have no idea if you like the show you’re referencing, or if you like it for the reasons I like it. Here I am, annoyed again (this time more with myself) that I’m having to mentally navigate around this gut reaction to make sure I’m fairly assessing fit.

    I don’t imagine all or even most hiring managers are thinking about it this much. It just sprang to mind mostly cause I hate two of those (very popular) shows SO MUCH and am, in non-interview settings at work, often internally holding back my Correct Opinions (TM) on popular media. They do not cover this unconscious bias training! I think we should look into a federally protected class (protected from me) for people with Bad Taste.

    1. So I says to Mabel I says*

      I know you’re partly joking with your last para but tastes in pop culture can absolutely be linked to forms of unconscious bias…

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