{ 592 comments… read them below }

1. Viki* July 22, 2025 at 12:09 am

   LW1: I deal with this with a lot of people, not just GenZ. It happens when you’re in the PMO, that every one you work with thinks you’re the answer to everything

   First time reply “this is not within scope, I would check with xyz” if I know who is the actual contact for scope or your manager.

   Second time reply, “As stated before, this is not within scope, I would check with xyz” , but cc their manager so they can get looped in.

   Third time, “As stated before, this is not within scope, I would check with xyz” , with their manager and mine cc’d.

   Fourth time is just an ignore emailed. It rarely gets to four, and the one who did get to four was a older gentleman who I cheered when he retired.
   1. Great Frogs of Literature* July 22, 2025 at 8:25 am

      Yeah, I work in IT, and this has been a problem my entire career. There’s a system for getting help, but people know that I’m responsive and knowledgeable, so I get emails/dms/phone calls out of the blue from people who haven’t put in a ticket, or who want someone to look at their ticket sooner.

      I can’t imagine reaching out to the CTO as my first step, but also I seem to have more knowledge of (or perhaps regard for?) expected process than a significant chunk of my coworkers, at least so far as one can tell from their behavior. As Alison said, I would take this as a sign that the new hires need better training about what to do when they have problems or need help.
      1. Daisy-dog* July 22, 2025 at 11:36 am

         Yep, it’s definitely about building out resources for who knows what & when to escalate. Even when that happens, it can still be hard to know. I was a customer service representative and we had an 8-week training program. As part of the training, the Complaints Team came in to introduce themselves and give a short presentation. A few months later, I had a caller who told me he was calling to lodge a complaint. I got on chat and messaged that lovely team to tell them they had a call. They told me that it had to go through my manager first. (Let’s ignore the fact that my manager was not available because they always had middle managers in meetings.) I was literally trained by them on how they handle complaints *when it gets to their desk*, but not trained on the process something takes to get there in the first place.
         1. Molly Gibson* July 24, 2025 at 2:51 pm

            I would have a complaint about that.
      2. datamuse* July 22, 2025 at 12:43 pm

         Where I used to work, the IT team expanded considerably at the same time that they instituted a ticketing system. It took a lot of people awhile to adjust (and, to be honest, my own department had some legacy issues that didn’t fit in the ticketing system–left over from when our units were under the same administrative branch).

         Training definitely helped, even (especially?) for longtime staff.
      3. Momma Bear* July 22, 2025 at 12:53 pm

         Our IT implemented a ticket system a few years ago, do not pass go, do not collect $200. Any question outside of that ticket system was met with an automatic reminder to use the ticket system. They held very firm for about 6 months until people fell in line, and then all the new people just used the ticket system from the get-go.

         If I were the manager of someone who kept reaching out to the CEO (!) for routine matters, I’d have a one-on-one with them about who to talk to and when (if ever) they should contact the CEO. If this is a consistent problem, the company might also need to revisit their onboarding and new hire/intern training.
      4. Strive to Excel* July 22, 2025 at 1:38 pm

         I’m generally pro-ticketing system, but I will admit that the one at my workplace is driving me nuts! Not because we have to use tickets, that’s fine, but because IT has locked a handful of functions behind the system that I have to access a little too often for it to be convenient. I’m required to use a virtual machine at work. IT has no mechanism in place for regular restarts, as far as I can tell. That means that inevitably the problem of Too Much Uptime occurs. I don’t have the ability to force it to restart myself, so every time, I have to put in a ticket and lose an hour of work time.
      5. Aerin* July 22, 2025 at 4:39 pm

         Working in help desk I get a lot of weird questions. And because I serve as a resource for other agents, I’m the one they turn to when they have a bizarre request for help with some extremely specific function. But the answer there is often “That’s in their literal job description to figure out, they’re only turning to us because they don’t want anyone to know that they don’t know how to do it. Sucks for them, but doesn’t change the answer.” If I’m the one on the phone, I usually say that the information they’re asking for is specific to their department and invidiual role, and that we can’t maintain that information at a national level.

         It’s always fun around intern season when we get the requests from people who want to set up everything the way that’s familiar to them so we get to tell them lolnope there’s a process for that. But I got one a couple of weeks ago that blew my mind: they wanted a report on some specific tickets (fine whatever) that included a summary of what kind of testing had been done (um what) and also put each ticket onto a separate pdf (UM WHAT). I actually laughed at my desk and told the agent to send them the guide for running their *own* reports and then tell them the rest is extremely not our job. I’m almost impressed by the brazen attempt but I’m not gonna do your project for you.
   2. Qwerty* July 22, 2025 at 9:09 am

      My biggest complaint with AI is I feel like people have been losing the ability to find information for themselves. They’ve gotten used to having it provided for them – I see people ask ChatGPT for a restaurant’s hours despite having said restaurant’s website up and with the hours displayed right in front of them. Google searches in the years before GenAI caught on started conditioning people to ask questions rather than put in search terms.
      1. Anonym* July 22, 2025 at 9:14 am

         I don’t know how much it’s the inability to find info here as opposed to knowing who is the appropriate person to ask. One thing that’s typically true in organizations is that the more senior the person is, the more valuable their time is to the org, so you don’t bother an exec (or the CEO!) with something unless no one else can help. Another thing that can help people decide who to ask is knowing who knows what; this can take a lot longer to decipher when you’re new, so that can fall under “ask your team or manager who to ask”. (Sorry, OP, not helpful to you! I suppose this is more what these new employees should know to navigate this better.)

         TL;DR: start with more junior folks before going to senior ones, and ask the people closest to you who is most likely to have the answer. Don’t just wing it, because people’s time is valuable.
         1. Renton* July 22, 2025 at 9:43 am

            I think office culture plays a role here too. If your office is one where senior leaders are visible, talking with the staff often and seem approachable, it probably feels a lot easier to reach out to them for things that are mundane, even if it’s not truly appropriate.
            1. Turquoisecow* July 22, 2025 at 12:27 pm

               Yeah this. If you meet the VP on your first day and he says “let me know if there’s anything I can help you with,” and then you’re sitting at your desk and you don’t know how to log into, say, the payroll system, and you’ve only met a handful of people and you don’t remember half of their names, you might ask the VP, who *said* “let me know if there’s anything I can help you with!”

               I personally would never email a VP who was probably like five levels above me, but I can see how a new hire who doesn’t know many people or understand how hierarchy works, might chose to go that route.

               A good resource might be a piece of paper that says “need help with (X)….email (Y) Any other questions? Contact (trainer, boss, supervisor, etc)”
      2. GreenApplePie* July 22, 2025 at 9:43 am

         I’ve always wondered if it’s exposing underlying systematic issues with literacy. Since ChatGPT came out I’ve discovered that a lot of otherwise highly intelligent people with advanced degrees and technical jobs simply cannot process written info unless it’s given to them in a conversational voice that answers their EXACT question, nothing more nothing less. They can’t extrapolate/filter info from what they read, nor can they understand the info if the presentation strays too far from verbal communication.

         I’m not an amazing housekeeper or handyman by any means (and my parents did nothing to share those skills with me) but I’ve learned so much from online tutorials that it boggles the mind to see “digital natives” my age completely stumped by the concept of looking up a recipe.
         1. Crepe Myrtle* July 22, 2025 at 9:59 am

            You may be interested in learning more about information literacy- which is part of information science, and why librarians are still essential to our society.
            1. Former Librarian of SHIELD* July 22, 2025 at 10:34 am

               I used to be a librarian, and my last library manager before I changed careers would always say “oh, I’m just not good at the internet.” And I would sit there thinking, you have a whole entire information science degree, but you’re not good at the place where the information lives?! She was older than me, but it was her second career so her library degree was about a decade newer than mine, so I have no idea how she managed to graduate with a master’s in library and information science without learning to use the internet.
            2. Dust Bunny* July 22, 2025 at 11:20 am

               Archives assistant (21 years) here: The sheer number of people who expect there to be a processed document on every single subject, and who retreat in dismay when I tell them that that is the kind of thing that their research, using our raw material, can be used to produce . . .
               1. Dust Bunny* July 22, 2025 at 11:20 am

                  (This is not a new problem, though.)
               2. Rainy* July 22, 2025 at 12:35 pm

                  I work in higher ed and for what I do, I get a lot of questions that start “Can I get the list of…” or “Where’s the list of…” and then I get to explain that the list does not exist, and any time they are tempted to ask for a comprehensive list of anything they need to assume that it doesn’t exist, and even if it did, it would have been outdated before it was even finished.

                  I have noticed that this is getting a lot more frequent and I think it is linked to people thinking ChatGPT is a search engine. They’re used to asking ChatGPT for “the list of” X and simply can’t understand that that’s not a realistic way of engaging with most information. I can tell you what I would do to find out the information that will allow you to create a list relevant to you, but there’s not One List To Rule Them All.
                  1. Reluctant Mezzo* July 22, 2025 at 4:33 pm

                     Assign the GenX to create the documentation they think they need and should post for others? That should be fun.
                     1. Elitist Semicolon* July 23, 2025 at 11:25 am

                        I place students in internships and some of the smaller or volunteer-run orgs I work with want exactly this! The students will go in and, based on their own experience doing research or using a specific kind of resource, revamp the org’s documentation or finding guides. They often really love the task and learn as much about how information should not be organized as they do about how it should be organized.
               3. datamuse* July 22, 2025 at 12:45 pm

                  When I worked with grad students (I was an academic librarian) I would often frame this as having just discovered their research question. Though the trick was always figuring out whether the information didn’t exist, or we just weren’t finding it…
            3. OP* July 22, 2025 at 12:42 pm

               That’s funny,
               This situation is happening among public library staff. We are of course not all librarians, but it would make more sense in this workforce to seek answers independently.
               1. jez chickena* July 22, 2025 at 1:07 pm

                  Two stories:

                  I WFH in tech and used to occasionally go to my then-local library for a change of pace. I got to be friendly with some of the librarians who were very nice. However, I found that after asking me what I do (for a living), the reference desk would sometimes send over a patron with questions regarding the Office Suite. I helped a few patrons before I decided not to work there anymore.

                  I used to run a corporate marketing department for a business software vendor. We took on an intern who was the son of the Managing Director of an International Airline as a favor to my CEO. For the first few weeks, Intern was going to our CEO with all his questions. She told him he needed to follow the org chart and ask his fellow marketing associates, then first-tier management first. She needed to repeat this to him several times. He eventually got the hint that he wasn’t “special” and became a pretty decent employee.
                  1. Pop-up book from hell* July 22, 2025 at 1:52 pm

                     Oof. I’m a librarian in a public library and that is horrifying – not only is it unprofessional, but a huge violation of patron privacy. I could see the staff doing this in the most well meaning of ways (connecting people who can better help each other), but this should absolutely not be happening.
            4. not nice, don't care* July 22, 2025 at 3:03 pm

               Helpful, engaged librarians are essential. Sadly, too many hole up and hide from helping people and prefer to overload employees who are held to standards that don’t permit dodging work.
         2. Aerin* July 22, 2025 at 3:34 pm

            Inability to extrapolate, or to conclude that this thing that works for a similar issue might work for their issue, is a big problem. I work in tech support and I provide support to other agents, and there are so many times where I point them to a solution and they say “Oh yeah, I saw that but I wasn’t sure it applied.”

            There was a window in the ’90s and early ’00s where the race to market meant that a lot of cool things out there for consumers had serious functionality issues, but the stuff they did was *so* cool that we just shrugged and accepted the jank as the price of admission. And so things like computers were built with that in mind. But then Apple turned everything into a sleek silver box and much that had been known was lost.

            So people both older and younger expect (for very different reasons) that everything should just work perfectly and if it doesn’t it’s not their problem. While those of us who came of age in that era just shrug and figure we can probably find a way to get it working well enough to do the job.
   3. an infinite number of monkeys* July 22, 2025 at 9:21 am

      I see this behavior a lot with some of our older employees, who have returned to the workforce to supplement retirement income. In their case, I think it’s hard to adjust to being a “junior” employee again, and they expect to have senior-level access. I’m senior to the employees in this position, but have noticed a tendency for them to treat me (a woman, and younger than they are) as administrative support. I get where it comes from, but it does annoy me. I like your approach!
   4. Owl* July 22, 2025 at 9:25 am

      For those others who had no clue, PMO apparently means “project management office” and is a group or department within a business, government agency, or enterprise that defines and maintains standards for project management within the organization.

      (Your regular reminder than not everyone has the same context you do, and it’s polite and helpful to explain acronyms.)
      1. mango chiffon* July 22, 2025 at 9:27 am

         thank you for explaining, I always read that as “pissing me off” and clearly that was not the right option!
         1. Princess Sparklepony* July 23, 2025 at 12:55 am

            I’m not sure that it’s a wrong answer! :D
      2. Rose is a rose is a rose* July 22, 2025 at 9:33 am

         For this Canadian, PMO means Prime Minister’s Office, so thanks for the clarification!
      3. Jean (just Jean)* July 22, 2025 at 11:04 am

         Thanks so much for spelling this out! My guesstimate was “PriMary Office” meaning a place where bureaucrats manage administrative details. I wasn’t too far off the mark but it’s always better to have real, solid information. :-P

         P.S. Mango chiffon, your answer was hilarious!
   5. Jules the 3rd* July 22, 2025 at 9:37 am

      I’d change the script to “please check with xyz” on the second / third rounds. There are people who don’t understand that “I” in “I would” really means “you”. My gen z son is one of them; we have recently had a conversation where I explained this to him. It was weird to me that I had to explain it, but his confusion seemed sincere.
      1. Epoanonymous* July 22, 2025 at 12:56 pm

         This might explain a few of my new coworkers!

         Is it because the full phrase would be, “If I were you, I would…” and we leave off the “If I were you” part?
      2. KPI.exe* July 22, 2025 at 1:21 pm

         Oh, man, I just went 9 rounds with someone in a department I’d just audited when she was upset that I wasn’t giving her precise, exact, detailed, and illustrated steps for what needed to be done to remediate a finding.

         Me: “Information X, Y, and Z was missing from the master database for 25% of my samples. You need to ensure that the database is complete and accurate.”

         Her: “But how?”

         Me: “If it were me, I’d start with pulling a report from the master database and reconciling the data with supporting documentation from Systems C and D. And then anything not in those systems I would run by the relevant manager for them to verify.”

         Her: “So you’re going to pull the report and do the reconciliation?”

         Me: “What? No. I was just giving you ideas for how I would approach it.”
   6. OctoChick* July 22, 2025 at 10:49 am

      If the goal is to communicate clearly with someone who doesn’t know all the processes and jargon, “this is not within scope, I would check with xyz” doesn’t seem particularly helpful.
   7. Springtime* July 22, 2025 at 11:37 am

      At my organization, most of the managers have an informal agreement that interdepartmental should be manager to manager. It’s not a strict rule, but it really does help to be able to redirect stray questions back to an individual’s manager. Beyond cluelessness, sometimes the answer is that their manager couldn’t answer something well so did ask them to contact me–which is fine, and maybe the slight awkwardness will just remind them to mention that next time. It also tends to highlight when the individual has encountered a roadblock within their department and is now trying to bypass their own manager. (Anyone else think there is an uptick in people–of all ages–wanting to choose who they report to based on whom they like the most?)
   8. Artemesia* July 22, 2025 at 12:09 pm

      It is so grossly inappropriate to be emailing the C-suite or grand boss etc with these questions that it suggests onboarding failures. Yes, anyone should know this, but apparently it is not something many newbies know. Part of orientation should be about professional behavior and chain of command type issues.

      Where to get information should be its own topic of orientation with it made clear that no one is to contact the Cs, or managers above their own manager. Then discuss types of questions and whom to contact — a co-worker, one’s own manager, the manual. And it should also be made clear that they are expected to know how to do their jobs, so that while using others for information is appropriate as they are learning, they should not be asking the same question twice. There are people who literally use someone else rather than google, or the manual or their own notes or just taking responsibility for mastery.

      Other elements of professionalism also need to be covered explicitly for newbies. Maybe organizational stragies; I have had new workers not aware of the importance of making lists of tasks they need to get done who are constantly dropping the ball because they ‘forget’ they needed to get that done. Also confidentiality; it is not professional to criticize your workplace, co-workers etc on line or even be putting much on line about your work that is identifiable. Also things like dress code if it is an issue at the workplace.

      Usually the importance of time sheets if they are used and such are covered, but these other things are assumed. Professionalism has to be taught.
   9. Ann Nonymous* July 22, 2025 at 1:04 pm

      I think a situation where a junior employee vastly overreached (emailed the CEO to ask where the shipping envelopes are), then there is cause to react proportionately to the gaffe. “Whoa! You should *never* email the CEO or anyone else senior for low-level questions such as these. If you have a question, you first try to figure it our yourself, then see if there is documentation for the issue, then ask a colleague, next your boss. Inappropriate escalation definitely calls into question your judgment.” This slap on the hand might sting, but will drive the lesson home.
      1. jez chickena* July 22, 2025 at 1:18 pm

         I’ve had new hatchlings run to HR claiming “my manager was mean” for similar treatment. I agree with you. No one was the slightest bit nice to me when I was starting out. But these newbies are just incredibly delicate.
         1. not nice, don't care* July 22, 2025 at 3:05 pm

            Hatchlings? Yikes. I’d go to HR too.
      2. KPI.exe* July 22, 2025 at 1:26 pm

         Holy smokes, that’s waaaaaaaay too heavy-handed for the situation!

         Remove “Whoa!”, the emphasis on never, and the entire final sentence.

         How horrible to slap them with “I question your judgment” when they’re doing something no one has ever told them not to do!!

         You’re literally saying, “Not being able to read minds and intuit unwritten rules you’ve never encountered before calls into question your judgment.” Eff that.
         1. Momma Bear* July 22, 2025 at 2:07 pm

            I would say this question is more appropriately directed to the office manager/your manager and if it happens again, talk to the manager about clarifying the food chain/resources for the employee. Our CEO looks like anybody else (jeans, polos) so a new person simply asking him in the hall I wouldn’t find egregious. But to email him about supplies? Nope.
         2. Summer* July 22, 2025 at 8:19 pm

            @KPI.exe – But it does call into question their judgment, in my opinion. Even when I was a lowly intern, I would *never* contact the *CEO* with some low level question. That is just common sense, or should be, even for someone new to the work world. Were they emailing the president of their university with questions about their classes? No? Then it stands to reason that they should know to not contact the C-Suite for random questions.
         3. Newbie* July 22, 2025 at 8:50 pm

            It’s really not a read minds situation. I say this as a new employee (about 6 months) – it’s pretty common sense not to bother senior management with simple questions like that.
         4. Worldwalker* July 23, 2025 at 8:41 am

            The fact that no one has ever told them not to do something inappropriate is exactly why it’s their judgement, not their obedience, that’s being called into question. “I don’t know what is the appropriate thing to do here; should I do X or Y?” is a judgment call; almost everyone faces something similar on a regular basis at work. Or on life, for that matter. If they are incapable of making such decisions with reasonable accuracy—if they think anything beyond the exact items that someone has told them to do or not to do requires mind reading—that does indeed call their judgment into question.
   10. Festively Dressed Earl* July 22, 2025 at 2:25 pm

       Is it possible there’s something more than new-hire cluelessness at play here? Maybe the people who would normally answer questions aren’t making themselves available or give bad instructions. I’d double check to see if the overreaching new hires are clustered under one manager or a particular department.
       1. Sillysaurus* July 22, 2025 at 2:47 pm

          In this situation I will sometimes ask “what did [person’s manager] say when you asked them about this?” Then if they say that they didn’t get a response and it’s been hours, I can address that concern. I also find it’s a helpful way to redirect to the correct person to ask. I say it in a breezy way, like of course they must have asked their boss first.
          1. Festively Dressed Earl* July 22, 2025 at 5:58 pm

             I like that response. It also screens out anyone who’s trying to go over their manager’s head, but it still lets you know if there’s something amiss in management/training.
   11. Tiger Snake* July 22, 2025 at 10:52 pm

       I work in a hyper speciality team within a specialty office branch. Think; the branch makes ceramic teapots, I specifically make the ceramic glazes.
       And I can always tell when the “front door” team (cermarics@org) has hired new people, because they will always forward questions to make that are not only not MY job, but should actually be THEIRS to answer. You don’t need me to say “we can make that colour”, you should look at the booklet of options we offer.

       This isn’t GenZ. It is always and forever a New Person problem. The boomers did it, the millennials did it, gen Alpha will do it too. They just got out of the schooling system, where teachers will always answer a question because that was their literal job.
   12. Totally not Inkognyto* July 23, 2025 at 1:36 pm

       I was part of our new MS teams rollout, for a healthcare system in which it’s being given to all 25k+ employee’s. They never had a previous chat system.

       In a meeting on the deployment I asked about rules for restricting opening calls and chats to senior vp’s and above, and they said “nah no one will do it”

       day 2, 10 people called, or sent MS teams messages by 9am to 2 senior VP’s asking them odd questions and the other to the CEO.

       So there’s now a list on who can contact those individuals. When I was asked how I knew and I said, “this isn’t my first rollout, and not everyone has a professional filter on contacting leadership”
2. Daria grace* July 22, 2025 at 12:19 am

   #2: Alison’s answer is great, but if you wanted you could add something like “I can’t afford to jeopardise my ability to access government tools at future jobs and risking legal problems the company may not be able to protect me from by allowing fraudulent use under my own personal details”

   This situation is one they should have realised that they were putting themselves in without warning. You already went above and beyond the required to warn them.
   1. Daria grace* July 22, 2025 at 12:35 am

      It really is a huge failure of planning to leave a tool that is absolutely essential to business operations in the hands of one employee. Firing that employee is especially foolish, but they could have easily found a situation where the employee with the account passed away or became incapacitated and so couldn’t have given them the password even if they didn’t object. Essential functions must have contingency plans.
      1. Ellis Bell* July 22, 2025 at 4:06 am

         Yeah I wouldn’t trust them not to mess this up. Stunningly inept.
         1. Mongrel* July 22, 2025 at 5:05 am

            Or get the signature and declare “Job Done”, nothing is as permanent as a temporary fix
            1. MissMuffett* July 22, 2025 at 9:25 am

               This is brilliant, I’m stealing this phrase!!!
               1. Academic Physics* July 22, 2025 at 2:34 pm

                  It’s so great, I kind of want to put it on a business card.
         2. Sheworkshardforthemoney* July 22, 2025 at 6:06 am

            Yes, just by making the request and for refusing to take no for an answer means that OP will be thrown under the bus when the deception is uncovered. Financial audits are no joke and the OP could have something on their permanent record which will follow them for life,
         3. Rogue Slime Mold* July 22, 2025 at 8:10 am

            At this point it’s like a series of escalations, convinced that the scene in the movie where you pull out the new contract and are hailed as a hero must surely be next in the script.
         4. but why* July 22, 2025 at 8:17 am

            My first thought when I read that they would have op sign a form saying they would not be held responsible for any issues related to the company FRAUDULENTLY using their login was that the form literally would admit to any court that they are complicit in the fraud.

            Don’t sign anything, email them that they are not permitted to use your login and stop talking to them. Hold onto to all communications related to this! It sounds like they might use your login with or without your permission and you don’t want to be implicated in their crimes.
            1. CG* July 22, 2025 at 8:33 am

               Yes!! And if this is something where criminal liability could attach – you cannot indemnify against criminal liability. It does not work that way.
               1. Observer* July 22, 2025 at 10:09 am

                  Exactly.

                  They might be able to indemnify you against issues where the question is around acting as their agent. But they cannot indemnify you against charges that come from your relationship with that other agency.

                  Do not do this!
            2. Hannah Lee* July 22, 2025 at 9:24 am

               I wonder if there is some way OP can access their login.gov account, which is set up under their personal name, and unlink it from that company or from the app that is used for the task. If they no longer have access to the credentials, or the email used to for 2FA, they may be able to reach out to the CS number for that government system to advise them they are no longer employed by xyz company so they can take whatever internal housekeeping steps they need to take. (and save copies of the notification and any confirmation of receipt)

               Just about every US federal government system my company has credentials for, the login is for a specific individual, with attestations that the person accessing the system is the person named on the account. There isn’t any gray area or confusing language there, it’s clear that the use of shared logins is forbidden. The fact that the former employer asked it the first place is an issue. The fact that they are *pushing* the issue, trying to get OP to agree that they can commit fraud in OP’s name is outrageous. As is their expectation that OP should believe and accept their super pinky swear that OP couldn’t face legal consequences for the fraud, written down in documents that could easily be used in court to prove the fraud was premeditated and purposeful.

               The fact that they’re pushing back on OP’s no makes it seem worth consulting with an employment lawyer who is familiar with government contracting, compliance to get their read on it and possibly send a “Heck no Beave!” missive to the company.
               1. Slow Gin Lizz* July 22, 2025 at 9:42 am

                  I was thinking it might be a good idea for OP to consult an employment lawyer, although I suppose that would be a last resort if this final “heck no!” is still ignored by OP’s inept former employers. I’m shocked to hear this company had to lay a bunch of people off, they seem like they really know what they’re doing (/sarcasm).
                  1. NoIWontFixYourComputer* July 22, 2025 at 10:55 am

                     That was my thought. She needs to protect herself from accusations of fraud. I suspect a strongly worded letter from an attorney, using the words “Felony”, “Crime”, etc… cc’ed to the company’s legal counsel might dissuade them.

                     Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.
               2. Baby Yoda* July 22, 2025 at 10:25 am

                  I wonder if there is some way OP can access their login.gov account, which is set up under their personal name, and unlink it …. great idea!
               3. Debby* July 22, 2025 at 10:43 am

                  I agree Hannah Lee, or at least go in and change their password so the company cannot use her log in without her knowledge.
               4. Spreadsheet Queen* July 22, 2025 at 1:09 pm

                  Assuming the systems require login.gov:
                  OP’s work login.gov is probably associated with their work email address at that company.
                  Their personal login.gov (like to access the social security site or the site to purchase government bonds) is probably associated with their personal email address.
                  They are not linked.
                  OP’s former employer cannot use their old work login.gov without knowing the password AND having access to their 2FA set-up.

                  Assuming the system is something with GSA and the FAS ID:
                  All they’d need is the password and keeping the old work email active, as 2FA for that is just emailing a code to the associated work email.

                  Some systems may require identify verification (like through Identrust or something) and a specific type of electronic certificate and yes, that does take a few weeks (longer if additional information is required like proof of name changes and the like).

                  I can’t tell what this system is (reference to client?) but it doesn’t change the answer. OP should NOT allow their prior employer access to any of their Gov’t login credentials. It’s totally a no-go.

                  That said, if OP doesn’t totally hate them and doesn’t have a new job yet, it might be a kindness to quote a consulting rate for which they’d go and load the data this one time. (A written agreement would probably be required to document OP’s relationship with the company, or it could still be a legal problem for OP to do the uploading.) However, OP does not OWE them anything, and shouldn’t feel an iota of guilt if they don’t want to do this. OP’s former company is likely going to just deal with getting the credentials on someone new and whatever the impacts are of late reporting. Too bad, so sad.

                  There should NEVER be a single point of failure in a company. Even an owner/CEO should have a succession plan in place just in case.
                  1. Brookfield* July 22, 2025 at 1:38 pm

                     YES, Queen! This company doesn’t seem on-the-ball enough to handle a short-term consulting engagement, so I’d just ignore after telling them NO one last time. And as a former US Gov’t contractor with secret clearance, I would be reporting this employer’s request to the GAO or DOJ right away – if they’re not taking no for an answer, they may find a way to use your credentials without your agreement.
               5. Festively Dressed Earl* July 22, 2025 at 2:34 pm

                  +100 to the first paragraph especially. The best way for LW to avoid consequences of their former employer’s fraud is to take the appropriate steps to stop it. Report the problem to whichever agency issued the credentials and ask them to suspend the account. If it’s possible, turn over the communications from former employer as well.
            3. Melicious* July 22, 2025 at 10:21 am

               Yes exactly! I’m no lawyer, but common sense says signing this is AGREEING IN WRITING to use your account fraudulently!
               1. Ama* July 22, 2025 at 10:46 am

                  Yes and OP should also make sure the next time they tell them they aren’t going to allow the employer to use their login they should do so in writing and then save it just in case they somehow figure out how to do it anyway.
            4. Elizabeth West* July 22, 2025 at 3:05 pm

               Yeah, and I wouldn’t be wordy about it either. I would just say “No, do not use my credentials. I no longer work for this company. Please do not contact me about this again.”

               And then print PDF copies of the emails and put them somewhere safe — multiple backups, and print copies too. I don’t trust them one bit.
      2. Perfectly Cromulent Name* July 22, 2025 at 9:17 am

         This, 10000%. This is not the employee’s problem, and it’s nuts that they did not have a plan for this even without layoffs. People quit without notice and throw their phone into the sea . People die. People get hospitalized and are too ill to reasonably do anything no matter how essential.

         I like Allison’s anser, but I would remove “I hope you understand” because to me that opens up a tiny wedge for ‘negotiation.’ This is non-negotiable. The answer is no, period.
         1. Elara Harper* July 22, 2025 at 3:59 pm

            I so agree! They laid her off, it’s their problem. They should have figured this out years ago. I gave my last employer 3 months notice and at the time reminded them of 3 separate systems only I had sign ins for. They waited until 2 days before my last day to ask me how to get new ones. Good luck folks -one required security clearance that it originally back in 2015 took 3 months to complete.
      3. GenX Middle Manager* July 22, 2025 at 9:46 am

         The “hit by a bus plan” is key. I’m currently riding my project leads about making sure theirs is better.

         Another benefit of having contingencies for every role and position: No one ever should feel that they “can’t leave work that day because I’m the only one who can do X.”
      4. Worldwalker* July 22, 2025 at 11:49 am

         The employee could simply ragequit — this sounds like an employer who would cause that.
         1. I Have RBF* July 22, 2025 at 12:39 pm

            They already laid them off.

            The real solution is one that the company is too dumb to consider: Hire them back until another person with the credentials can be trained. But that would mean that the company would have to admit that they were wrong to lay them off.
            1. Perfectly Cromulent Name* July 22, 2025 at 4:12 pm

               And the person would have to want to come back. I would probably delight in telling them to get bent.
               1. F.* July 23, 2025 at 7:06 am

                  Well, OP might take the opportunity to think about what a fair consulting fee would be — one that fully and generously values their talents and expertise.

                  Then double it, add an extra $100/hour for good measure, and see if the company wants to play ball.
            2. Mabby* July 23, 2025 at 2:09 am

               Thinking about it (and reading other comments) I’d not go back. I imagine it wouldn’t be too hard to install a keystroke programme and capture the login/pw and then have it to use fraudulently.
            3. Worldwalker* July 23, 2025 at 8:49 am

               I was referring to single points of failure, not this specific situation.
   2. Cj* July 22, 2025 at 1:17 am

      The one thing I disagree with Alison on is that she says that the letter writer should tell them “I don’t think there’s any way I can permit that”. I would say I absolutely cannot permit that.

      I realize that the letter writer wants to stay on good terms with their former employer, but come on, this is fraud we are talking about. And against the government no less!
      1. Elizabeth West* July 22, 2025 at 3:06 pm

         Yeah, that’s too nice. This is a “Hell no” situation.
   3. Cj* July 22, 2025 at 1:18 am

      I won’t say I don’t think there’s any way I can permit that. I would say I absolutely cannot permit that.
      1. L.H. Puttgrass* July 22, 2025 at 8:45 am

         I’d also leave out the part about “I’d help if I could,” since technically LW2 could let their former employer use their login, they just (very rightly) won’t. And “I’d help if I could” leaves wiggle room for the former employer to try to wrangle some other concession.

         My version of Alison’s language would be a little more blunt:

         “I’m sorry, but because the login would require you to attest that I am the person logging in, and it’s tied to my legal name and date of birth, I cannot permit that. I cannot agree to have false information tied to my name given to the government. I hope you understand.”
         1. Observer* July 22, 2025 at 10:17 am

            since technically LW2 could let their former employer use their login, they just (very rightly) won’t.

            Not true. Legally, the LW *CANNOT* hwlp them. And “legally” is not a “technicality”. And the LW should not imply that it is anything less than full reality.

            Now, if ex-boss, or anyone else, comes back with your line about how they actually *could* help, then the LW has evidence that the company sees legal compliance as optional, and act accordingly.
      2. DrMrsC* July 22, 2025 at 9:00 am

         +1 Agree, don’t leave room for them to think they can convince you otherwise. Also, I would 100% change me log in credentials just in case someone at the old job has a random sense of what you were using and gets lucky trying to log in as you!
      3. LaminarFlow* July 22, 2025 at 9:20 am

         Definitely! I would not mince words, and leave an opening for any further negotiation on this issue.

         Most companies want to emphasize security – not sharing log-on/password/no sharing of badges, etc. And, depending on the type of government clearance, employees can expect significant pay bumps. But, this company is openly seeking to defraud the US Government, and they are pressuring a recently terminated employee to assist in their efforts.

         Nope, nope, nope. Close this loop with a firm and polite final NO.
      4. Laura H* July 22, 2025 at 9:33 am

         Exactly what I came here to say. LW2, remove ANY wishy-washy language that they could latch on to and use as justification to keep asking you. I feel for your old manager, she’s likely being asked by higher ups to keep going back to you, so giving her a definative communication she can show to them will be a kindness to her as weel, not just in your own best interest. I would even use language like “With this latest correspondence I consider the matter closed” or “Thank you for respecing my final decision on this matter.” and if the contact you again you can just not reply, or direct them to forward any communication to the ffice of an employment lawyer of your choosing.
   4. Ellie* July 22, 2025 at 1:24 am

      I would just call a spade a spade, and write back that I’m concerned that this would be considered fraud, and that I cannot in good conscience let them use my login details. If they push, say you’ll need to get legal advice, then wait a couple of weeks before telling them you still can’t do it.

      Frankly though, I think they’re being lazy. I’ve never known one of these accounts that couldn’t be renamed to a different login, if you contact the agency directly. They probably just don’t want to figure out how to do it.
      1. Reading Rainbow* July 22, 2025 at 4:18 am

         Same. If for no other reason than as a CYA I am going to put in an email that this is fraud and I’m not helping them do it.

         That would be the case even if they hadn’t ignored me pointing out this was an issue before and then laid me off suddenly. But in this specific case? Oh well, folks, you should have listened to me and then not suddenly canned me out of nowhere then, huh. I’m not about to stick my neck out to bail you out of your own bad choices now.
         1. EventPlannerGal* July 22, 2025 at 6:54 am

            This. Honestly, I would struggle not to write an email along the lines of “I warned you about this issue on X occasions and you did nothing about it, and you then laid me off without making any other arrangements to access this service, and now you want to commit fraud under my name?”
            1. WellRed* July 22, 2025 at 8:17 am

               Seriously
            2. Insufficiently Festive Unicorn* July 22, 2025 at 9:44 am

               This! The company put itself into this position; the company can dig itself back out. LW should absolutely not even hint that they will permit fraud under their name, no matter what sweet promises are made.
            3. Elbe* July 22, 2025 at 10:06 am

               Seriously! The gall of these people.

               “Will you commit fraud to help us – the company who just laid you off – so that we don’t have the face the consequences of our own poor planning?”
            4. Baby Yoda* July 22, 2025 at 10:28 am

               Yes! As Sheldon Cooper would say, “I informed you thusly.”
            5. Artax* July 22, 2025 at 11:53 am

               Yeah, I think this is totally reasonable under the circumstances. I’d write the email like it was going to be read back to me in a deposition.
               1. Reading Rainbow* July 23, 2025 at 12:45 am

                  Abso freaking lutely. The fact that the LW said no and they they contacted them through a different channel to try to get them to approve of them committing fraud? I would go in here fully expecting that, once I say no again, they will do whatever they can to use my credentials and sign under my name without telling me. If they can make it happen, they’re going to do it, and I need to be protected.

                  I personally would also contact the government agency this is for and warn them. That might not do anything but I want to make absolutely sure that whatever these people try to do, it’s extremely clear that I was not a party to it.
      2. Your former password resetter* July 22, 2025 at 4:46 am

         I’m guessing you need some kind of qualification or certification to get an account like this, and that’s why it is so tied to a specific employee. Like getting it signed off by a safety expert.
         1. Lady Lessa* July 22, 2025 at 6:18 am

            With one of the regulatory issues that I used to deal with (before being laid off and not being able to transfer the info), they only had one person for each company. And no special requirements.

            I was planning to attempt to hand it over, but never had the chance, so it would be interesting know how it is handled come next year. (I’ll never know)
         2. Snow Globe* July 22, 2025 at 6:59 am

            Even if a certification is not required, I’m certain that when the LW got the account there was some legal thing that they had to sign saying that this account would be used only by them and credentials would not be shared with anyone else.
            1. Hannah Lee* July 22, 2025 at 9:30 am

               When I went through the process for access to a government system, there absolutely was a legal attestation that I would be the only person using the credentials.

               There also was a step where I had to prove I was who I claimed to be by appearing in person to a notary with 2 forms of official ID in hand, and have a company owner attest that I was authorized as the representative of the company for that business.
         3. hbc* July 22, 2025 at 7:51 am

            Right. So either they’re too lazy to get the qualified person on staff to get an account, or they are performing an operation/review for which they’re unqualified. I think the latter is far worse.
         4. doreen* July 22, 2025 at 7:51 am

            I worked for a government agency and had log-ins giving me access to records at other agencies. The reasons they were tied to a specific employee didn’t have anything to do with special qualifications or even a background check. It’s for the same reason any log in is supposed to be tied to a specific employee – so that an audit can tell who did what if something inappropriate is found. Which is why any assurances of “indemnification” don’t matter – sure, the company can say “it wasn’t OP 2 who did that ” or pay any fine imposed on the OP for allowing the company to use their credentials but they can’t protect the OP from any other consequences ( which might include criminal penalties). This is not like OP 2 is allowing someone else to access thir own personal account at a government agency.

            As far why there was only one log-in – my guess is that there is a fee per log-in.
      3. Honestly Some People!* July 22, 2025 at 6:30 am

         I was the person handed this problem when someone passed away. I called what felt like the appropriate person at the agency, was handed off to the actual appropriate person, had a form emailed to me, I filled out the form and my boss “signed here”. A few days later I had access. It took 30 minutes over 3 or 4 days. Their work environment may be different but the point remains that in the time they are trying to get OP to ally them to pretend to be him/her they could very likely have someone else with access.
         1. Pastor Petty LaBelle* July 22, 2025 at 8:47 am

            these are not competent people. If they were competent they would have thought maybe don’t fire the one person who has the log in. But they did. So they definitely aren’t thinking hey how do we transfer the log in. No they are thinking, let’s do a fraud.

            OP, under no circumstances should you give in. A flat no I will not agree to hand over my log in for use by anyone else is sufficient. As noted, document, document, document.
         2. L.H. Puttgrass* July 22, 2025 at 8:48 am

            I’m not saying LW2 should write this, but it would be very tempting to respond, “What would you have done if I’d died suddenly? Do that.”
            1. Grith* July 22, 2025 at 9:04 am

               I’m fairly sure that will be taken as agreement for them to keep using the login….
               1. L.H. Puttgrass* July 22, 2025 at 9:21 am

                  Fair point. I’m assuming the employer can’t use the login without LW2’s permission (and the password).
      4. ursula* July 22, 2025 at 8:55 am

         This is absolutely the way to go.
      5. NoIWontFixYourComputer* July 22, 2025 at 10:58 am

         Actually, it’s not just fraud, I believe that the person who checks the “I am OP” box is also committing perjury (IIRC, most government sites state that).

         Again, IANAL.
   5. Black Cat* July 22, 2025 at 5:24 am

      Also, the awareness to use TEXT communication as opposed to email is a red flag.

      There are many people who believe texts are untraceable. Yes, I know that’s not accurate to all members of this commentariat. I would counter this commentariat is a little more online and savvy than many IRL.
      1. Observer* July 22, 2025 at 10:20 am

         Exactly.

         To me this is just one more red flag among many.
   6. Jeff Vader* July 22, 2025 at 6:37 am

      If they are claiming to be you, by using your login and password this is fraud.

      There’s definite intent to deceive by pretending to be someone else. Its the same as forging a signature.
      1. Jeff Vader* July 22, 2025 at 6:42 am

         For reference the Code of Federal Regulations describes this, refer to 21 CFR part 11 for electronic signatures.
         1. Frankie* July 22, 2025 at 12:19 pm

            +1 Very useful for OP to know
      2. The Great I’m Not* July 22, 2025 at 1:04 pm

         First comment after a couple years of reading the site, and as a contractor for the govt myself, this sounds awfully close to whistleblower territory. I don’t know how anonymous lw2 could realistically stay, but I’d imagine this is something a government agency would want to know about.
   7. Kuddel Daddeldu* July 22, 2025 at 6:47 am

      Yes. Actuall, I would contact the agency directly (usually at or shortly before my last day), telling them I’m leaving and giving them my manager’s contact details (or a successor’s, if known).
      1. Kuddel Daddeldu* July 22, 2025 at 7:13 am

         To add: I’d be very factual and professional about it. Not saying “let go”, just “I’ll be leaving/left the org, my last day is/was $DATE. Please cancel my access on behalf of org. Thank you for the good cooperation, Elizabeth Warbleworth”.
         Having the date in there is useful should someone access the system under your credentials.
         1. Rogue Slime Mold* July 22, 2025 at 8:09 am

            I like this.

            Because while they asked for your credentials, it’s possible they have them keylogged somewhere.
            1. Margaret Cavendish* July 22, 2025 at 8:16 am

               Or heck, written down on a piece of paper somewhere! OP, whatever you can do to get your credentials cancelled by the agency, do it now. Because your old employer will definitely use them, with or without your permission.
               1. SimonTheGreyWarden* July 22, 2025 at 9:41 am

                  I feel like they’ve already used them and the indemnification is kind of a CYA.
               2. Observer* July 22, 2025 at 10:23 am

                  OP, whatever you can do to get your credentials cancelled by the agency, do it now.

                  If you actually still have access, log in one last time and *change your password* if it doesn’t require access to your work email to do this.

                  I’d still let the agency know that you are gone, and preferably that you changed your password for security purposes. Obviously, don’t give them the new password, just let them know what happened.
               3. Jackalope* July 22, 2025 at 10:33 am

                  Yes, this. I would 100% let the Agency know that I’m no longer working there as of Date and please cancel my login account. Take it out of the former employer’s hands since otherwise they’re likely to keep doing this with or without your permission.
                  1. Purple Jello* July 22, 2025 at 3:28 pm

                     THIS.
      2. megaboo* July 22, 2025 at 9:13 am

         Yeah, I would flag this with the certifying agency. I don’t know if it’s something the OP has to enter their own password for, or what, but I don’t put it past the former job not to go ahead with committing fraud anyway.
      3. Elbe* July 22, 2025 at 10:08 am

         Yes, if they already have the credentials this would be a good step.

         And the LW should definitely save the texts where they are clearly refusing to give them permission to do this.
   8. Boof* July 22, 2025 at 7:47 am

      I wouldn’t even say “I would help if I could” because frankly, that’s what people are paid for and the company ain’t paying LW2 nor is this a “oh where did you leave the keys” quick question-ask. Maybe LW2 could offer to consult at some obscene rate they’d actually be willing to work for but other than that, just stop answering after “no, this is not something I am willing to do nor is it reasonable to ask me to do it”. (I know that sounds harsh but frankly this ask is outrageous I don’t see that there’s any goodwill to spin out by dancing around that fact)
      1. A Poster Has No Name* July 22, 2025 at 9:42 am

         That’s what I was thinking to–instead of “I would help if I could”, “I will continue to do this task for $500 an hour…” or whatever.

         If they want to.
   9. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est* July 22, 2025 at 7:51 am

      I would not state “I would help if I could.” That would encourage them to continue to pursue it.
      1. DAS* July 22, 2025 at 9:12 am

         100% – this is what I came to say. Do not offer to help! What they’re asking is unreasonable; make them see that, in a way that’s polite but direct. No need to soften the answer, and definitely do not leave the door open to them continually asking you to “help.”

         Alison’s language, with that revision and a few more to make it more direct: “Because the login would require you to attest that I am the person logging in, and it’s tied to my legal name and date of birth, I can’t permit that. I cannot agree to have false information tied to my name given to the government. Thanks for understanding.”

         (I also like the suggestion to explicitly say you’re concerned it would be fraud. That could be worked into the language above. But keep it short and simple.)
   10. Rogue Slime Mold* July 22, 2025 at 8:07 am

       Even if you don’t say that out loud, LW, say it to yourself! “The people who are mad that I won’t break the law and destroy my future for them” were just never going to work out as valuable connections, once they made “break the law, risk jail and being permanently booted from this role anywhere as a cover for our terrible planning” the contingency.

       The email of the document about how you totes won’t go to jail for the going to jail thing could be cluelessness, but could also be someone furiously emailing like it’s being read aloud at a deposition to create their own electronic paper trail.
       1. Observer* July 22, 2025 at 10:26 am

          “The people who are mad that I won’t break the law and destroy my future for them” were just never going to work out as valuable connections,

          Yes. 100%

          So, you could try the softer language one time. If they take it as an opening, just shut it down.

          And do it all in email to the company accounts (and bcc yourself to a separate account. Yes, I’m being paranoid, but these people are sleazy as all get out.)

          You want to make sure that there is a paper trail of them asking you and you refusing. And you want to make it as hard as possible for them to make that go away.
       2. Boof* July 22, 2025 at 11:44 am

          Right? And I mean, usually when people try to ask for fraud/heist, there’s at least some kind of amazing reward dangled for taking the bait! What is the proposed reward to the LW for this? Vague corporate attaboys?
   11. Elbe* July 22, 2025 at 10:02 am

       Exactly.

       These people are incredibly incompetent. If there are any legal issues, the text thread and email thread (and even indemnification paperwork) is 100% proof that they knew what they were doing is wrong and did it anyway. I don’t think it would be difficult for a legal professional to get both the LW and the company into some pretty big trouble.

       This is no longer the LW’s concern. It’s so common for companies not to do their due diligence when determining how to reduce force. This is their problem to solve.
   12. Beth* July 22, 2025 at 11:06 am

       I really, really, REALLY hope that the LW has changed the password to make certain the employer isn’t using the credentials without permission!
   13. Thomas* July 22, 2025 at 11:37 am

       #2 I think should tell their ex-employer F no and ALSO contact the relevant government agency to inform them that their employment was terminated and they suspect their ex-employer will attempt to use their credentials.
   14. Liz Lemler* July 22, 2025 at 12:16 pm

       At a previous workplace, multiple financial accounts (PayPal, square, etc) had a generic department email as the username, and the 2 step verification phone number was a previous employee. Everyone insisted this was fine! They contacted him regularly to get the verification codes that went to his phone, and weren’t concerned that he still had access to our financials! I was a broken record about this but they didn’t budge. When I left, I disconnected my personal cell from any accounts I had access to, so they wouldn’t try to bug me later for codes. All of which is to say, I could see them doing what OP’s former company is going.
   15. FattyMPH* July 22, 2025 at 2:53 pm

       Yes! And I don’t think LW has done any bridge-burning; I think her ex-colleagues did when they asked her in writing if she could pretty please help them break the law?
   16. Boof* July 22, 2025 at 6:18 pm

       The phrase “Reasons are for reasonable people” comes to mind the more I think about it – there’s probably no point in explaining, just “no, this request is inappropriate” and be done. (again, unless LW2 wants to offer to work a bit more for them on a freelance/hourly basis at like 3x+ what their prior salary was)
3. Reg* July 22, 2025 at 12:19 am

   Re #2, the overheating — there are now vests and other things that have some sort of tech that cools you off. I have a friend with a medical condition that is exacerbated by heat. She bought some of these clothes and they helped immensely. I think she got them online but local medical supply stores, or even camping stores, might have them.
   1. Reg* July 22, 2025 at 12:20 am

      Dang it! I meant #3!
   2. AcademiaNut* July 22, 2025 at 12:57 am

      I live in a hot, humid climate, and the AC at work can’t be set below 25C (77F).

      I have a USB charged desk fan clipped to a bookshelf, that’s great for quick cooling, both from when I come in from the outside and am sweaty, and these days for hot flashes. In my experiences, jeans are pretty hot – the fabric is thick, and cotton absorbs moisture and takes a long time to dry. My preferred long pant for work is a lightweight hiking pant style, that is breathable and dries quickly when it gets sweaty, paired with a light top. Linen is also nice and cool, but more fuss to care for.
      1. Ellis Bell* July 22, 2025 at 4:09 am

         I thought jeans were a very surprising choice too; you need thinner, looser fabric. But, I think this is also an environmental issue for the building.
         1. General von Klinkerhoffen* July 22, 2025 at 4:30 am

            Jeans are hard-wearing, but they’re hot in hot weather and cold in cold weather.

            It’s still the employer’s responsibility to ensure a reasonable work environment.
      2. Unauthorized Plants* July 22, 2025 at 8:43 am

         I would love to find lightweight hiking pants, but as a small fat I’ve never found a pair that are well made, comfortable, and actually fit me–I imagine this could be a limitation for OP from how she describes her body. Do you recommend any brands we could check out?
         1. Annika Hansen* July 22, 2025 at 9:06 am

            The Prana Halle Pant goes up to an 18. I think they run about a half-size to size big. I like that they have multiple pants lengths. They aren’t super lightweight, but they aren’t heavy either. Eddie Bauer has plus sizes and goes up to 18 in standard sizes. Duluth Trading Company is the same. I have pants from all three companies listed.
            1. Hazelfizz* July 22, 2025 at 1:44 pm

               18 is a very small fat. None of those will work for OP. we need the equivalent of sizes in the high 20s at minimum.
            2. Dahlia* July 22, 2025 at 2:19 pm

               So when we ask for plus sizes, we’re asking for at least a 24. 18 is small. In some stores it’s not even a plus size, it’s a straight size (technically a mid size, on the border in between).

               This is kind of illustrating the problem – none of those are likely options for OP.
               1. OaDC* July 22, 2025 at 6:12 pm

                  “Eddie Bauer has plus sizes and goes up to 18 in standard sizes. Duluth Trading Company is the same.”
         2. I Edit and I Know Things* July 22, 2025 at 9:13 am

            Short and round here. Duluth Trading does women’s pants by inseam length. I found these fantastic lightweight overalls for gardening there. They aren’t cheap, but the quality is fantastic and there are sooooo many pockets. They had light weight hiking pants, too, and were very size inclusive, almost to the point of being vanity sized. (I was looking at the overalls and the saleswoman comes up and asks if I need help. I told her I needed the shortest inseam, but was trying to decide if I needed an XL or XXL. She looks me up and down and goes “medium. These run large.” I ended up with a large because I prefer a looser fit, but the medium fit, too.)
            1. Name (Required)* July 22, 2025 at 12:55 pm

               The Duluth ones are 50% off right now – I wear them every day!!
         3. Merry and Bright* July 22, 2025 at 9:14 am

            I have the Little Donkey brand (from Amazon) and get the capris. As a short person they hit my legs about mid-calf, so lower than shown in the models, if your office allows capris. I also have light weight jogging pants that I got from Target online in short length when I need pants.
         4. Keladry of Mindelan* July 22, 2025 at 9:37 am

            LL Bean makes “Comfort trail pants” that go up to at least 24w. I’ve worn them in 16 through 22w (as my body has changed) and been very comfy.
         5. orchivist* July 22, 2025 at 10:57 am

            they just went out of business but they’re easy to find on resale/thrift sites: alder apparel “open air” pants are AMAZING. they go up to a 5x, extremely comfortable, I wore them all the time while I was working in India and they kept me quite comfy!
         6. Anonypotamus* July 22, 2025 at 11:24 am

            REI has women’s hiking pants up to a 26W. You can have them tailored to fit if you need that.
         7. Gumby* July 22, 2025 at 2:54 pm

            The Eddie Bauer Ranier pant. It goes up to size 24. If you keep an eye out they usually go on sale (at Kohl’s I think) at least once a year for ~50% off. I also talked my mom into them as her previous summer pant idea was jean capris. She is agrees that these are definitely better! I’m short so I do get mine hemmed.

            Even something like the Old Navy Pixie pants is lighter weight than jeans. I don’t love mine because the fit is slightly off for my body, but if it is that or sweltering, I deal with them.
         8. Bike Walk Bake Books* July 22, 2025 at 6:31 pm

            Not brands, but resource sites you may already be familiar with: Burnt Toast by Virginia Sole Smith, and Big Undies by Corinne Fay, who produces Virginia’s site and also has her own site. Corinne runs SellTradePlus, a peer to peer resale company with clothing for larger bodies. Both really good writers fighting anti-fatness in general, great supportive commentariat like the one here, tons and tons of brand recommendations in the articles and comments.
      3. Daughter of Ada and Grace* July 22, 2025 at 9:09 am

         Linen is also nice and cool, but more fuss to care for.

         “More fuss” is relative here – linen is actually a very sturdy fabric, and holds up to washing in the washing machine just fine. (Linen will get softer the more you wash it.) But linen does wrinkle very easily, so if you need something that will look crisp then you will need to take the time to iron it (and possibly starch it).

         I’ve got a couple of linen garments – loose and flowy cuts are both cooler and tend not to need as much ironing. I usually pull mine out of the washing machine and hang them up to dry, then not iron at all.
         1. Hibiscus* July 22, 2025 at 1:59 pm

            Old Navy has had these cotton-linen blend pants for the past 3 years or so that go on sale for under $30, come in a variety of colors, and are very comfortable. I prefer the older version with the drawstring, but definitely a solid choice for hot weather wear. I’m in Phoenix so I know!
         2. KateM* July 22, 2025 at 6:07 pm

            I read a suggestion that you should soak linen before washing it, while keeping it as flat as possible. I have done so with my child’s dress, then wash together with cotton on the rugular 40°C, hang it up to dry instead of using a dryer – no wrinkles whatsoever without ironing. I wish I had known this years ago!
      4. sb51* July 22, 2025 at 9:19 am

         The heavier structure of them is supportive, especially spandex-y jeans, though. Depending on the LW’s body, they may need a little anti-jiggle in their lower-body clothing for comfort, and jeans alone may be cooler than thinner slacks plus some sort of supportive undergarment.

         (Unless I missed it, LW never gives a gender, which also affects options; some of the flow-y options are more of a women’s clothing thing, but also on the other hand from what I hear, larger sizes for some types of pants are easier to find in men’s clothing.)
      5. Llama Enegry* July 22, 2025 at 10:29 am

         I will give a shoutout to the Athleta Brooklyn mid-rise ankle pant– they look dressy but are a lightweight stretchy fabric. I wore them on a camel and on a Dubai-Newark long-haul flight, and also to work meetings. Currently on sale, and Athleta goes up to size 26.
         1. Ana Gram* July 22, 2025 at 11:14 am

            There’s something hilarious about “I wore them on a camel”! What a great recommendation!
      6. NoIWontFixYourComputer* July 22, 2025 at 10:59 am

         There is an other issue… OP#3 described themself as “obese”. It may not be possible to get those pants in their size.
   3. dogwoodblossom* July 22, 2025 at 1:39 am

      I came to mention this also! I have a medical issue that makes temperatures like you’re describing absolutely intolerable. I just got a vest from EZ Cool! The vest itself is pretty ugly, but the ice packs it comes with are fantastic. Something something chemistry, tldr, they start out freezer cold but then warm up to a specific cool temperature that they maintain steadily until they completely melt. I got ones that cool at 59 C but they have I believe 69 C and 49 C packs as well if you want to be a little warmer or cooler. Inside sitting down in the high 70s they last me 2-3 hours. It’s pricey but I highly recommend it. There are much cheaper versions on Amazon but they mostly just use regular ice packs.

      Also the suggestion for a pack for your back wasn’t bonkers! It can really help to lower your core body temperature.

      I really hope your office will take some steps towards a solution though because this sounds absolutely wretched and unworkable for most people.
      1. canuckian* July 22, 2025 at 5:05 am

         I think you maybe mean 49-69F, not C? Because 69/59/49 C are not cool temperatures…that’d be about 156/138/120 F….
      2. Don’t know what to call myself* July 22, 2025 at 8:44 am

         Yes, I live in the desert, so we got a lot of education all through school about how to prevent and treat heat exhaustion, and the recommendation is ice packs in places where there is a lot of blood flow, like lower back, neck, armpits, and groin. That will cool your body much faster and more effectively than the forehead.

         I agree with the recommendations for clothes more breathable than jeans, but ultimately this is a facilities issue. OP should talk with their manager and reiterate that the warm temperature in the office is causing physical illness to staff and that can’t be allowed to happen again.
         1. Slow Gin Lizz* July 22, 2025 at 10:09 am

            I had to do this when my a/c was broken a couple of weeks ago. That and I was showering three times a day and working in my sports bra except when I had to be on camera for meetings (luckily I WFH). Sorry that OP doesn’t have this option, although would it be possible for OP to get permission to WFH on the warmest days? Ice packs are definitely helpful and I love the idea of an ice vest – I’d never heard of that before!

            Chiming in on the linen suggestion too – sure, linen pants get very wrinkly but it’s almost not even worth the bother to iron them since they will just get wrinkly as you wear them. And if you can, maybe try wearing cropped pants instead of ankle ones? I have a couple of pairs of loose linen cropped pants and I love them.

            Also wanted to say that I’m sorry OP is dangerously hot at only 76 but I run very cold and that’s actually my personal comfort temperature – isn’t it weird how varied we humans are with our comfort temperatures? It’s a constant source of frustration, isn’t it? You’d think with all the millennia we existed before central heating and a/c we would have developed a wide range of comfort temperatures but noooooo….we humans are such delicate flowers.
            1. NoIWontFixYourComputer* July 22, 2025 at 11:00 am

               “I love the idea of an ice vest – I’d never heard of that before!”

               I’d forgotten about them. When I was at adult Space Camp (yes, there is such a thing!) and was doing a simulated space walk, they had me wear one of those to avoid overheating.
               1. Worldwalker* July 22, 2025 at 12:05 pm

                  I believe they’re used by motorcyclists in hot areas, also.
      3. Hroethvitnir* July 22, 2025 at 4:54 pm

         Oh man, I need this in my life.
   4. A cat named Brian* July 22, 2025 at 9:15 am

      #3 look into a portable AC. We use them for hurricanes.
      1. epicdemiologist* July 22, 2025 at 9:59 am

         If you have a window that opens to the outdoors, a portable AC unit (rolling, with vent tube out window) is a lifesaver. Our (home) heat pump died right before my husband was to have surgery, and we were without AC for 2 full weeks with temps 80-84 F inside the house (upper 90s outdoors, heat index 100-107!). Luckily we were able to afford the portable AC for the bedroom, so he could sleep & rest! They are not nearly as heavy as an old-style window unit, and they are easy to set up & take down.
         1. knitcrazybooknut* July 22, 2025 at 12:29 pm

            My current building was built in the sixties, with barely any airflow. Air conditioning units won’t fit into our windows. But I found a small swamp cooler that works great. You soak a filter in water, freeze it, and a small fan blows a mist over the filter. It’s saved me many times!

            I also have a neck ring thingy with a gel inside that you freeze and then put around your neck. I put it on yesterday when it hit 75, and you immediately wake up for sure! It doesn’t do any damage, but all of your blood cools down rapidly. I also have a fan pointed at my feet at all times. Yes, I am THAT intolerant of heat, and our building sucks exactly THAT much.
   5. Divination_Witch* July 22, 2025 at 9:50 am

      Yes get anything you can to cool yourself off, and SPEAK UP! Nobody gives a damn about those of us that are heat intolerant, they only care about cold. Heat is very dangerous and people should be protected from it at work. I don’t care how obese anyone is, you need to be able to cool down. Have them do SOMETHING.
      1. Baby Yoda* July 22, 2025 at 10:34 am

         Order some “Hot Girls Pearls” and keep in the work freezer or your own cooler. They are freezable jewelry that work well for a good 45 minutes or so– they really cool me off.
      2. Beth* July 22, 2025 at 11:24 am

         Preach it! I’m heat-intolerant, to the point that it’s essentially an invisible disability. Much above 76 F, I can’t function (I do much better in low humidity — but where I live, the humidity is never low).

         The AC at our office building had occasional problems, and I had to stand up for myself and go home to work remotely when it wasn’t working.
      3. Elizabeth West* July 22, 2025 at 3:17 pm

         If other people are complaining, then it’s bothering them too. And you cannot tell if someone may be sensitive to it by their weight. My mom is not obese and she cannot tolerate the heat at ALL. In heat waves like the ones right now, she’s pretty much trapped inside her house. :(
         1. Phillianna* July 22, 2025 at 9:56 pm

            Yes, heat intolerance is not linked to weight and we should all work to uncouple that notion! I say this as a person with a small body who has heat hives currently covering both my arms. Other people have given good cooling ideas but I also recommend cooling towels that you wrap around your neck and chest–these really help with both body temperature and heat rashes, if those are something you are prone to.
   6. NothingIsLittle* July 22, 2025 at 11:58 am

      Many medications can also cause heat sensitivity! I second that there are some great tech options, but ultimately OP3 might need to treat this as a medical accommodation (I’m not sure if it would count as an ADA medical accommodation, but it’s certainly a medical issue being accommodated). I understand not wanting to talk about it since it might be attributed to OP’s obesity in a judgmental way, but heat can pose a serious health hazard.
      1. Tea fiend* July 22, 2025 at 12:29 pm

         I want to hop on the medical accommodation angle. LW #3, if you have a medical provider you trust to take your concerns seriously, I think it’s worth talking to them about this because, to me, what you’ve described seems like it would be caused by a medical issue, not just being overweight. Hope you’re feeling better and you can get the accommodations you need from your employer.
   7. Aerin* July 22, 2025 at 3:42 pm

      I’ve also found a lot of cooling materials marketed to runners, which makes sense. Since COVID I run about 20F hotter than I used to, so the Midwest is currently unbearable. A big lifesaver has been one of those neck fans that looks kinda like headphones. The fans at my desk usually do the trick, but that neck fan is what makes it possible for me to handle the walk between the desk and the car.

      Also echo what others have said about the jeans, I absolutely cannot wear them when it’s humid. I’ve switched mostly to skirts and flowy pants that I can pull up or flap for some airflow if needed.
   8. RedinSC* July 22, 2025 at 4:11 pm

      Our office’s AC is mostly broken and we’ve been working with the landlord for 2 years to get it fixed (lawsuit time). BUT I was able to buy mini swamp cooler things for people’s desks. You put the ice pack in the freezer over night and when you get in in the morning you can take it out and have this little cooler blowing cold air at you. It’s desk top sized.

      I just got them off of Amazon – called Extreme speed air cooler – They work. It’s not a great solution, but until we get the AC fully working, it’s helpful. I think they cost like $40.

      Some people are just really sensitive to heat, so maybe a little cooled air right on your desk could help?
      1. RedinSC* July 22, 2025 at 4:13 pm

         Oh, also, I got this for my hot flashing, but I think it helps even when I’m outside and it’s too hot, it’s called the EMBR Wave 2. This is pretty expensive at $300, BUT it’s been a live saver for me. You wear it on your wrist and can press a little button to start to cool you. This might actually help as well, just much more expensive.
   9. Laser99* July 23, 2025 at 9:22 pm

      I own a cooling vest. There a big pockets inside holding bags filled with a liquid that stays cold a long time. It. Is. AWESOME. Do your research and don’t cheap out if possible. I got a zipper one and then zipper broke. I can still use it but I wish I had purchased the Velcro type instead. It should fit snugly.
4. Career regulator* July 22, 2025 at 12:19 am

   There is a Gen Z like LW1 describes on my team. Even when I was a manager on a different team in the same department he would email me with random questions (i.e
   nothing to do with the areas where I am an official Subject Matter Expert). As a manager with a lot more experience than him, I knew the answer to his questions…but so did the managers on his own team.

   He saw this behaviour as “networking”. Everyone else saw it as weird and out of step with professional norms.

   I did let one of the managers on his team, who I was already friendly with know. It turns out this was the tip of the iceberg of all kinds of performance/adherence to professional standards issues. His management are currently trying to get him dismissed after an unsuccessful PIP, but there are bigger HR issues. Sigh.
   1. JadedAmber* July 22, 2025 at 9:48 am

      Oh wow, I had a direct report like that. He genuinely thought that keeping me in the loop was optional, and going for answers to other managers or even VP was very normal networking activity. He had other issues and was ultimately let go, and out of my other Gen Z teammates he was the only one to disregard professional norms, though I genuinely don’t remember any other generation doing anything similar.
5. Not A Manager* July 22, 2025 at 12:22 am

   I don’t think anyone can “indemnify” you against a criminal charge. I am NOT playing online lawyer, but I wouldn’t want to risk being held criminally liable for abetting fraud. As well as, of course, just not wanting to abet fraud.
   1. Daria grace* July 22, 2025 at 12:29 am

      The only one who can indemnify someone is the person or entity who has the right to sue or press charges. In this case it is the government. The former employer could sign a blood oath saying they indemnify the OP against consequences for the use of the login but whether the OP gets prosecuted or faces other consequences (eg. Not being able to use this system at future jobs) is not something the employer has any say in
      1. Not A Manager* July 22, 2025 at 12:54 am

         Well, that’s not true. In a civil setting, people indemnify each other all the time from claims that a third party could make against one of them.
         1. MK* July 22, 2025 at 1:27 am

            Possibly it varies by jurisdiction, but what this boils down to is that you then have a claim against the one who “indemnified” you. It doesn’t in any way affect or restrict the third party, who can legally move against you in any way they have; you simply have the right to ask the one who “indemnified” you to deal with the consequences. Essentially it’s not “the third party can’t sue you”, it’s “if the third party sues, we will pay them”. And if they don’t, you then have to sue them to become whole.
            1. Kay* July 22, 2025 at 12:51 pm

               Exactly this. Keep in mind, just because you have an agreement doesn’t mean it will actually hold up in a court of law! I’ve seen it happen plenty of times where the legal opinion is akin to “well that language isn’t great, you’ll spend less just paying vs trying to enforce the indemnity just pay up now and move on”.

               And in criminal situations you aren’t getting out of the prison time if it comes to that.
         2. Ellie* July 22, 2025 at 2:23 am

            Sure, but you can’t take out insurance for effectively breaking the law. This would have to be similar. OP’s company might have written something that says they will not sue him or otherwise go after him if he gives them his login credentials. But if its against the law (and it surely would be), then that bit of paper means nothing. He could still be charged and held liable.

            Regardless of whether its fraud though, I wouldn’t do it anyway. His old company can contact the agency and explain the situation, and go through the official process to get it changed. Its in no way OP’s business to get involved with that at all. They laid him off, so they can figure it out.
         3. Emmy Noether* July 22, 2025 at 3:22 am

            Yes (happens all the time in patent law, for example).

            However, I would never ever do this if the third party is the government. If it’s about money only and civil suits, you can come to all kinds of agreements. But the state doesn’t play around.
         4. Worldwalker* July 22, 2025 at 4:58 am

            This would be a criminal matter—fraud—not a civil case.
   2. learnedthehardway* July 22, 2025 at 2:48 am

      Exactly – saying “We’ll take the blame” in no way obligates legal/government authorities to say, “Oh, well, that’s fine then.”

      I mean, the OP might have had plausible deniability if their login credentials had been used by their employer without them knowing or without their employer putting it in writing that they wanted to use them, but now that it is in writing, it’s discoverable.

      OP – you should reach out to the government entity and ask them what their policy is and what your employer is allowed to do. Odds are they will say something like “If we discover that your ID was used by your former company, we will cut off their access and blacklist them. And never let you use our resources again, either.”
      1. BellStell* July 22, 2025 at 3:11 am

         Agree with your points and also LW if that agency has a whistleblower line would this be a path to follow? Agree it is a problem the old company boss reached out but I would consider asking the government agency. Alternately screenshot everything and send as text to CEO and legal office of old company pointing all this out but maybe after seeking legal advice.
      2. Sheworkshardforthemoney* July 22, 2025 at 6:21 am

         I work for an institution which has very strict financial rules. AI and malware attacks have become more sophisticated, we are constantly trained and warned about ID fraud. They don’t play around and anyone caught committing fraud is terminated.
      3. Rogue Slime Mold* July 22, 2025 at 8:16 am

         I’m genuinely curious as to the reasoning underlying “Let’s put this all in writing! Sign here Opie!” Either someone is very clueless, or someone is making damn sure there’s a paper trail about the fraud.
         1. Another Kristin* July 22, 2025 at 9:03 am

            Are you taking notes about a criminal conspiracy?
            1. Abe Froman* July 22, 2025 at 10:09 am

               Roberts rules says…
         2. Irish Teacher.* July 22, 2025 at 9:34 am

            Well, looking at the Anglo tapes in Ireland, some people…really do appear to be that clueless. Those were tapes where the Anglo bankers were basically recorded saying “we’re gonna lie to the government and claim we only need x amount of a bailout because if we told them the real amount they might say no, but if they give us some, they’ll have to keep investing to protect what they already have. Lol, lol, lol. And they aren’t even going to be able to sell the bank ’cause we’ve messed up so badly.” It genuinely included one guy asking the other where he got the amount he told the government from and the other guy replied “out of my arse” and the two of them laughing.

            Now, the tapes didn’t come out until after the government had invested and the country essentially went bankrupt as a result but still, who openly says “hah, hah, we’re lying to the government and we’re going to con them into paying us lots of money”? So yeah, apparently some people are either that clueless or more likely, I’d say, that arrogant, that they are so sure they are above the law that they think they can leave papertrails because nobody is going to question them.
            1. Northbayteky* July 22, 2025 at 10:58 am

               “…but still, who openly says “hah, hah, we’re lying to the government and we’re going to con them into paying us lots of money”?”

               um, the current administration?
         3. Observer* July 22, 2025 at 10:32 am

            I’m genuinely curious as to the reasoning underlying “Let’s put this all in writing! Sign here Opie!”

            Actually, they are not trying to get everything in writing – hence the texts.

            The *only* thing they are trying to get in writing is the LW agreement to commit fraud. Because they are stupid enough to not realize that while one finger is pointing at the LW, 3 are pointing to them. That is, that while the LW’s signature would prove that they realized there could be a problem, the fact that *they* sent the thing and *their* staff made these representations is even bigger proof of their complicity. (Unless they have already chosen the sacrificial person who will be tossed to the Feds when the *** hits the fan.)
         4. Kay* July 22, 2025 at 12:54 pm

            I too thought it was a little odd the company was willing to document their intended criminal activities AND share those activities with the OP!
      4. The Bureaucrat* July 22, 2025 at 8:35 am

         I might go so far as to contact the entity to let them know I no longer needed my account and ask them to disable it.
   3. Mockingjay* July 22, 2025 at 9:54 am

      Government certifications and accesses stop the day your employment ends. Now, the government agency can choose to suspend credentials for an individual until/unless they are rehired or hired by another contractor to do that particular role, or transfer the credentials to another one of Former Company employees. But OP2 absolutely cannot use those credentials past their last day of employment.

      The statute of limitations for fraud and misuse of government information/property/accesses is usually never – the government holds you personally liable for many, many years. OP2 likely also has a government mandate or obligation to report their former company’s fraudulent attempts.

      Advice: I’d contact the issuing government agency directly and forward any communications and information to them. Let them handle it. This is the kind of thing that can derail a career permanently; OP2 needs to stay far away from it.
   4. Ann O'Nemity* July 22, 2025 at 10:27 am

      An indemnification agreement from the company might protect the OP against liability from the company, but it would not shield them from potential consequences from the government. That makes it harder for the company to throw the OP under the bus in a civil dispute, but in no way grants immunity if the government tries to go after OP directly.
6. LoV...* July 22, 2025 at 12:25 am

   LW2 – I don’t know how likely the feds would be to prosecute you over this, but I don’t think holding up an indemnification addendum from your co-conspirators would not get you out of it.
   1. LoV...* July 22, 2025 at 12:25 am

      * would get you out of it. (Whoops, typo)
      1. Worldwalker* July 22, 2025 at 5:02 am

         It wouldn’t. Someone couldn’t tell you to rob a store and agree to take the blame. They might get in trouble too, but you’re going to be going to jail.

         You can’t “indemnify” someone for the consequences of them committing an illegal act. “I was just following orders” doesn’t work.
      2. r..* July 22, 2025 at 9:56 am

         Quite the contrary. It would likely *hurt* LW2.

         Any such addendum would be met with a “Uh, thanks for the evidence on the conspiracy charge” from the prosecutor, and since you’re part of that charge handing them evidence against you is probably Not Helpful.
   2. Jeff Vader* July 22, 2025 at 6:46 am

      It would be as much use as a letter from your mother !

      Even if the LW claimed ignorance / innocence of the rules they can still be prosecuted.
      1. Elsewise* July 22, 2025 at 1:08 pm

         I love the idea of going to criminal court with a letter from your mother. “Mom says I’m not in trouble!” “Ma’am, you committed a felony.”
   3. Rick Tq* July 22, 2025 at 10:02 am

      Not only should LW2 not consent, but they should contact the Fed department to cancel their account since they are no longer employed by the company.

      It would be true karma if the person(s) who determined the layoff list that included OP were all terminated to free up enough budget to bring LW2 back so she COULD legally log in to complete the process.
      1. Ann O'Nemity* July 22, 2025 at 10:29 am

         Agree with canceling the account. Even if the OP still has physical access or the credentials still work, the authority to use them ended when their employment did.
7. Fahrenheit to Celsius converter* July 22, 2025 at 12:25 am

   68 F = 20 C
   75 F = 23.888…C
   76 F = 24.444…C
   78 F = 25.555…C
   80 F = 26.666…C
   1. ChurchOfDietCoke* July 22, 2025 at 3:03 am

      Yeah, that’s…… not really that hot, in the scheme of things. But add humidity and ugh.
      1. Emmy Noether* July 22, 2025 at 3:32 am

         I happen to think that 26C is the perfect outside summer temperature, but yeah, I’ve come to realize that humidity is actually the bigger factor for comfort. 30C with 30% humidity is still quite nice in the shade, where only 26C with 80% humidity is stifling and can even make me nauseous.
         1. Zaphod Beeblebrox* July 22, 2025 at 3:44 am

            26C is a lovely temperature for sitting out with a glass of wine / G&T / your beverage of choice.

            For sitting in an office – not so much.
            1. londonedit* July 22, 2025 at 3:59 am

               Yeah, it’s hot for indoors! In the UK we tend to think of ‘room temperature’ as being about 18-20C, so 25C indoors is definitely pushing it and I’d be wilting (though I wouldn’t be at sweating/heatstroke levels of hot).
               1. Emmy Noether* July 22, 2025 at 4:34 am

                  Huh, I learned 21C as default indoor temp. 18-20C is ok in winter, with a wool jumper! And I’m German, it’s not exactly very warm (or at least it wasn’t in the past) either.

                  That said, I was in Iceland once and everyone was walking around in shorts/t-shirt at the summery temperature of…. 15°C! It’s very much a question of what one is used to.
               2. Pescadero* July 22, 2025 at 1:19 pm

                  Eh… we set our AC in our house at 78F in the summer, and turn it off and open windows as soon the outside temp drops below 80F.
                  1. Lilo* July 22, 2025 at 2:49 pm

                     Yes, I’ll cop to being confused, as I set my home to 78. You’re asked to do that during high usage periods.
                     1. amh* July 22, 2025 at 3:41 pm

                        And by keeping your AC on, even set to 78, you’re keeping the air dry. In an office with no ac and high humidity, and especially without lots of air movement (a desk fan doesn’t cut it) that same 78 is going to feel very, very different.
            2. Emmy Noether* July 22, 2025 at 4:27 am

               Yes, I meant outside. It’s usually possible to keep inside temps about 2 – 3° below outside even without aircon (as long as it cools down at night enough to reset), and 23C/35% is ok for working on a computer inside in the summer, too. (Even though I will admit that that temperature combination will make me daydream of a nice Spritz on the balcony as well).
         2. Rogue Slime Mold* July 22, 2025 at 8:18 am

            Yeah, I think it’s the humidity and still air.

            (Plus LW’s body being like “I have decided to not cooperate with this temperature” and it’s not like you can reason with your body about this stuff.)
            1. MigraineMonth* July 22, 2025 at 11:20 am

               Yeah, sometimes my body is fine with 85F, and sometimes it thinks 76F is too damn hot. Even setting aside external factors, the body can acclimate to certain temperatures, or it may be unable to cope because it’s sick/stressed.
            2. Parakeet* July 22, 2025 at 1:37 pm

               Yeah, I have an autonomic dysfunction issue, and there have been occasions where I have been adding and removing layers every 10 minutes for an hour while the temperature stays exactly the same.
         3. nnn* July 22, 2025 at 10:39 am

            Yeah, the other day it was 26C outside here where I live, but it was so humid the humidex was 39C, which is a whole other beast.
      2. JM60* July 22, 2025 at 3:35 am

         If it wasn’t for the humid part, I would have thought of this being a case of the workplace as being on the warm side of acceptable, but generally not intolerable for most people. However, a humid 78 is very different from a dry 78!
         1. Polaris* July 22, 2025 at 10:36 am

            78 with no air flow and a ton of humidity = I’m going home til its fixed. Or I’m showing up in appropriate clothing for the office climate, dress code be damned.
      3. Michigander* July 22, 2025 at 4:28 am

         For me personally, that is much too hot. I’m not a big fan of anything over 20, but sitting in a stuffy office all day in 26 degree heat? There’s no way I could manage.
      4. I'm Sorry, What* July 22, 2025 at 4:51 am

         78 is not that hot, but it’s well above room temperature and what’s comfortable for sitting an office all day (even if a small minority of people don’t mind it, as OP noted is the case at their office).
         1. Numbersmouse* July 22, 2025 at 9:20 am

            They noted most people at their office don’t mind it, though. (I am from and live in a hot climate and happen to think 78 F is the perfect temperature, but obviously not coupled with high humidity. AC in my office is routinely set to 24-25 C and that’s definitely uncomfortably cold for me.)
         2. CC* July 22, 2025 at 7:23 pm

            Yeah but… for heatstroke? Why is everyone missing that she says she got legit heatstroke from a 78 degree office? I cannot figure that out.
            1. Church Basement Lady* July 22, 2025 at 9:14 pm

               What the OP describes is not heatstroke. Many people simply don’t know the definitions. They felt overheated, uncomfortable, and unwell.

               Heat stroke is a medical emergency with rapid body temperature rise and organ damage which can be permanent.
      5. Dahlia* July 22, 2025 at 5:10 am

         Outside hot and inside hot are not the same thing at all.
      6. Kuddel Daddeldu* July 22, 2025 at 7:06 am

         In my experience, Americans (especially with indoor jobs) are less heat tolerant than northern Europeans – not despite but because of a warmer climate. The reason is ubiquitous air conditioning – you get used to going from your cool home by cool car to cool office/store/etc., adjusting your internal thermostat accordingly.
         Where I live, AC at home is rare and offices start to cool down things (if at all) above 25°C/77°F, so (not extreme) heat is tolerated a bit better. I’ve lived in Texas, Florida, and Singapore and I brought a sweater to the office in high summer as I experienced it as way too cold for comfort.
         1. Nightengale* July 22, 2025 at 8:23 am

            that’s interesting – I don’t tolerate cold at all (a 76-78 degree office sounds perfect for me) and more air conditioning just seems to make me more intolerant of air conditioning. I can handle an hour or so if not too cold but the longer I stay in air conditioned spaces the colder I get. (Yes I wear a sweater to work in July. And often knee socks. I’m still cold, especially my nose and ears.)
         2. mango chiffon* July 22, 2025 at 8:28 am

            Humidity in the US tends to be much higher than in Europe which greatly impacts the wet bulb temperature. AC is a life saving system in much of the US, and we have lower heat related deaths than Europe does. We have sustained heat for much longer lengths of time in a year than Europe does.
            1. Crepe Myrtle* July 22, 2025 at 10:01 am

               Yes, humidity in my region is regularly 70-80% all summer, so 76 inside is much too warm. You feel like you can never cool off.
            2. ThatGirl* July 22, 2025 at 10:27 am

               Yes, but also the stubborn refusal to use AC in Europe has killed and will continue to kill people. It’s life saving everywhere and uses less energy than heat.
               1. mango chiffon* July 22, 2025 at 10:33 am

                  Yep, am right there with you. So many people could be alive if better cooling systems were installed in Europe.
               2. Emmy Noether* July 22, 2025 at 1:44 pm

                  I’m 38 and healthy, and I’ll survive the 5-10 days/ year where it would be kinda nice to have AC.

                  On the other side, the stubborn refusal of Americans to think of anything but their momentary comfort, setting the AC so low that they’re running space heaters under their desk at the same time, will kill us all one day.
                  1. Crepe Myrtle* July 22, 2025 at 2:48 pm

                     oh please, you don’t need to do that here.
                  2. PerditaLostIt* July 23, 2025 at 11:19 am

                     Careful, you don’t want to fall off of that high horse!
         3. JB (not in Houston)* July 22, 2025 at 10:21 am

            Hmm, that has not been my experience. Maybe Americans are less tolerant of hot temperatures inside since we’re used to a/c, but my European friends regularly complain when the outside temperatures where they are get to what I would consider cool for a summer day.

            Regardless, this doesn’t account for the humidity in the OP’s office, and it doesn’t help the OP. I really hope we’re not going to have yet ANOTHER “78 isn’t too warm inside” debate on here. It’s tiring and not at all helpful to the OPs who write in because they are struggling with the temperatures at their office to tell them “actually that’s not hot, the problem is that you’re a babied American.”
      7. Boof* July 22, 2025 at 7:52 am

         NGL I was a bit surprised at the thought of heatstroke at 78F indoors / presumably inactive (by which I mean physical activity just generates a lot more heat to blow off) – but OSHA does recommend 76 and under, and I’m pretty sure I’d tend to notice if it’s getting to 78 indoors as a bit hotter than I’d like it. Different folks I guess!
         1. Worldwalker* July 22, 2025 at 8:35 am

            I just repeated that to an industrial hygienist who is the heat stress SME for a large complex in the South, and he said that OSHA does not have a standard for heat. You (or what you read, such as the typical “Heat Stress And You” employee pamphlet) might be referencing the ASHRAE recommendations. However, ASHRAE (the American Society of Heating, Refrigeration, and Airconditioning Engineers) is a private organization, so its recommendations do not have the force of law, though laws may make reference to them.
            1. Boof* July 22, 2025 at 11:47 am

               This is a link so might not make it through for a bit, but I am finding this as far as OSHA guidelines?
               https://www.osha.gov/node/57113

               ”
               Question: What can I do if my indoor workplace is too hot or cold?

               Answer: OSHA does not require employers to provide heat or air conditioning for work spaces. OSHA does recommend temperature control in the range of 68-76°F. The qualities of good indoor air quality (IAQ) should include comfortable temperature and humidity, adequate supply of fresh outdoor air and control of pollutants from inside and outside of the building. Employers are responsible for protecting workers from temperature extremes.
               “
         2. fhqwhgads* July 22, 2025 at 10:23 am

            I’m not trying to nitpick the OP’s wording, but what they’ve written sounds like heat exhaustion, not heatstroke. Heat sickness is a thing with varying flavors. With heatstroke you’re generally talking “go to the ER” not “go home”.
            If OP3 was diagnosed with heatstroke, I’m not trying to suggest they’re wrong. But I mention it because if they’re going to mention it to management to push for change, if there’s a chance it was one condition and not the other, it’d help their argument to use the right term.
            1. Angela Zeigler* July 22, 2025 at 11:43 am

               Plus, hydration plays a significant part, not just the temperature. The fact that OP and most commenters aren’t mentioning it at all is concerning.
               1. Dahlia* July 22, 2025 at 2:25 pm

                  I got heat exhaustion a few weeks ago.

                  I was hydrating extremely well. I drink a lot of water and other hydrating drinks. I was staying in the shade. I spent some hours inside at the hot hours of the day. Still almost fainted!

                  It was around 25C, too.
            2. Parakeet* July 22, 2025 at 1:42 pm

               Yep, and this is also good for people to know in general. I provide first aid at various kinds of events and people mix these up all the time. And I don’t blame them for not knowing (especially since they probably learned the wrong term from someone else who didn’t know, who learned the wrong term from etc). But it makes it confusing in a bad way when someone comes up and says “My friend has heat stroke” and they mean heat exhaustion. And creates a bit of a “boy who cried wolf” situation in that first aid providers get used to people meaning “heat exhaustion” when they say “heat stroke.” Heat stroke kills you if you don’t get treatment. It’s a major medical emergency.

               I am prone to heat exhaustion and have had it several times. Never, fortunately, heat stroke.
            3. The thrifty Canuck* July 22, 2025 at 1:54 pm

               Came here to say that. I’m not a doctor but it is also my understanding that heat stroke is frequently fatal, as in the last step of overheating before death, and survival generally requires a trip to the ER. Whereas heat exhaustion is still serious but usually not risk-of-death serious. Echoing that LW might indeed have had heat stroke, though the description in the letter makes me think it might have been heat exhaustion. And it’s probably useful to the LW to use the corrrct terminology, because people should not be suffering heat exhaustion at work!
         3. NoIWontFixYourComputer* July 22, 2025 at 11:06 am

            Remember OP’s self described health issues: “I am also what people would describe as morbidly obese”.

            When someone is that heavy, it’s a lot easier to get heatstroke
            1. Worldwalker* July 22, 2025 at 12:14 pm

               It’s of less concern why someone gets heatstroke than if they get it, and the consequences thereof.

               Heatstroke is a life-threatening medical emergency, and lands you in the hospital, not home.
         4. JustaTech* July 22, 2025 at 12:56 pm

            Just yesterday I was working in the lab and the temperature started at 73F and went up to 79F by the end of the day – absolutely unpleasant for working in a lab where you’re wearing a bunch of PPE – close toed shoes, lab coat (polyester), gloves (nitrile) and in my case liquid-proof sleeves (covering wrist to past the elbow).
            Especially when the lab is usually 68F – a little on the cold side for sitting at your desk but good for when you’re wearing a lab coat and moving around.

            Everyone commented how uncomfortable it was and I ended up putting a cold pack on my back to help cool me down so I could concentrate.
         5. Le Sigh* July 22, 2025 at 1:45 pm

            Not sure about OP of course, but medications can also play a role in how heat sensitive someone is. Something to keep in mind for anyone taking SSRIs in a humid, hot summer.
            1. Grimalkin* July 24, 2025 at 12:29 pm

               Not just SSRIs, either, though they’re the most well-known. Diuretics, beta blockers, antipsychotics, stimulants, antihistamines, decongestants… there are a lot of medications that can cause heat sensitivity, even before getting into any issues with heat interacting with the underlying medical condition itself.
               My mother’s one of those who runs warm. I wasn’t… at first. Now I’m taking three different medications regularly that cause heat sensitivity, and I run even warmer than she does! Medications can make a big difference here, is the upshot.
      8. Divination_Witch* July 22, 2025 at 9:52 am

         Oh it is very hot, especially to someone who is heat intolerant.
         1. Presea* July 22, 2025 at 11:08 am

            I have pretty bad heat intolerance and a body shape similar to what LW3 describes. The thermometer is not a reliable way to check if the heat is dangerous or not for certain people… if their body is overheating then its overheating, period!
            1. Crepe Myrtle* July 22, 2025 at 1:26 pm

               Yes, exactly! Arguing about what temperature is too hot is ridiculous. This person feels too hot so it’s bad for them.
      9. Trillian* July 22, 2025 at 12:31 pm

         I have a brain of impure silicon. I can do many things in that temperature range, but incisive thought and detail orientation are not on that list.
      10. the cat ears* July 22, 2025 at 4:03 pm

          in addition to the notes below about humidity, OP is obese, which often means that people overheat more easily (but usually tolerate cold better). There’s also some natural variation in how people experience heat.

          Even if it’s “not that hot” for the average person, OP deserves to be safe and comfortable as much as their coworkers do. Maybe that’s changing the conditions in the office overall, maybe it’s getting specialized clothing and equipment as people recommend here, working from home, from a different part of the office, etc. But what OP individually needs is what should matter to them, and to their HR/manager/whoever makes these decisions.
   2. Nodramalama* July 22, 2025 at 3:54 am

      Love your work. 25 outside isn’t that hot, but it’s pretty hot for an office. I am a bit surprised it’s lunch sweating in a cooler bag hot
      1. MK* July 22, 2025 at 6:26 am

         Also depends on the office “building”. People often don’t take into account other factors that determine how comfortable a temperature feels. 26 C in a Mediterranean country, in a building with huge windows that open wide, and hopefully designed to sustain coolness and help airflow, carpets removed from May to October and light curtains? Perfectly fine. 26 C in Northern Europe, in a building built to conserve heat, with wall to wall carpets and windows that at best recline? Intolerable.
      2. Great Frogs of Literature* July 22, 2025 at 8:36 am

         Condensation on the cooler bag says to me that it’s VERY humid, which would take the temperature from my personal “This is okay” to “Ugh this is miserable.”
         1. Don’t know what to call myself* July 22, 2025 at 10:42 am

            I’m wondering if what OP should be pushing for is not lower temperatures, but access to a dehumidifier for the office.
            1. Aerin* July 22, 2025 at 3:46 pm

               We got one for our basement and it made a huge difference in the comfort levels. It’s been regularly removing about 2 gallons of water per day from the air.
         2. YetAnotherAnalyst* July 22, 2025 at 11:18 am

            Yeah, this is what I took from that. I keep the AC in my house at 78F, but it’s mostly on to keep the air from being soup. Today it’s about 85F and 60% humidity and I have the AC off; it’s quite comfortable with the windows open. Last week it was about 80F and 90% humidity, everything was covered in condensation, and just walking the dog was exhausting.
            1. Elizabeth West* July 22, 2025 at 3:28 pm

               Same here last week. I went to the office and the windows on the outside looked like they had butt prints on them from condensation. Why they looked like butts was a mystery, but it was pretty amusing, I thought, as I gasped my way to the front door!
   3. Bay* July 22, 2025 at 6:48 am

      Thank you for conversions!

      Yes, this depends so much on what you are used to. I think of my office as luxurious and cool at 26C– but outside it is a very humid 35, and only gets down to 29 at night.

      The OP sounds like they are in a place where this is really abnormal, in which case I would guess that others are suffering too. In any event, heatstroke is awful and in my experience it can take a long time to be able to handle hot conditions again afterwards. I think Alison’s framing is good and I am sorry that the fatphobic society is compounding something that is already hard enough anyway
   4. M* July 22, 2025 at 9:07 am

      Yeah, for indoor seated work, 25.5C is… pretty comfortable. There’s a lot of small empirical studies out there that basically conclude that for women, performance on most thinking tasks increases well into the upper 20s. The evidence I’m aware of suggests the crossover point for performance, at which both men and women are performing roughly equally on average, is ~26-27C. (“Gender and the effect of temperature on cognitive performance”, Chang T and Kajackaite A is what to google if looking for the study.)
      1. M* July 22, 2025 at 9:09 am

         (That said, my understanding is that it does also correlate pretty heavily with weight, so there are more factors than just gender when setting an equitable office temperature.)
      2. Emmy Noether* July 22, 2025 at 9:21 am

         Oh, interesting. I’m a woman and personal experience tells me that my cognitive performance pretty much falls off a cliff at above 28°C. I’d say my optimum is around 22-ish? Cold doesn’t make my brain as foggy, but a lot of brain power gets dedicated to “how to get warm”.
         1. M* July 22, 2025 at 9:53 am

            For me, at least, humidity is also a *massive* factor. 26C and very low humidity, if I’m not moving around or sitting in direct sunlight, I’ll quickly start feeling cold. 26C and high humidity, I’m overheating.

            (There also, at least on a glance at the research, appears to be a real gap between self-reported comfort, for which women tend to report being most comfortable at around 22-24C – and task performance, for which women keep performing better as the temperature rises well above 24C.)
         2. Bubbles* July 22, 2025 at 12:34 pm

            Do you take SSRIs? They can seriously mess with a body’s ability to regulate internal temperature.
      3. I Have RBF* July 22, 2025 at 1:06 pm

         My brain shuts down at anything over 25° C. I will start wanting to fall asleep, and start sweating a lot. I’m AFAB, so I guess I’m an outlier to any study that thinks women perform well when overheated.
         1. Crepe Myrtle* July 22, 2025 at 2:44 pm

            same! who cares what studies say when I’m so hot I can barely function.
         2. M* July 22, 2025 at 3:23 pm

            Oh, I’m in no way suggesting there aren’t exceptions, or that sex is the only determinant of best-functioning temperature ranges. Rather, just that office temperature norms are, generally, defined a lot closer to the average best-functioning range for men than for women, and the best empirical data on where a balanced point would be suggests a temperature *higher than the OSHA guidance cap*.

            Which doesn’t mean there aren’t men who freeze at 76F, or women who boil at 68F – just that our social norms about what settings cater to the average office worker have… rather a baked in assumption about who the average office worker is.
         3. Insulindian Phasmid* July 22, 2025 at 4:09 pm

            Me too, also an afab who runs hot. Over about 72F and I’m distracted and uncomfortable.
      4. I'm Sorry, What* July 24, 2025 at 5:09 am

         25.5C/78F is NOT pretty comfortable for most people, though. That’s why it’s above the maximum recommended range for offices of 68-76.
   5. Ann O'Nemity* July 22, 2025 at 10:34 am

      Temperature is part of the equation, but so is humidity. The measurement you need to watch is the Heat Index, aka the “feels like” temp.

      Depending on how bad the humidity is, a temp of 77 or 78 F could be in range for caution or even extreme caution for heat stroke because it pushes the heat index up above 80 F. High humidity can prevent any perspiration from evaporating easily, which makes it hard to cool off naturally.
      1. Aerin* July 22, 2025 at 3:54 pm

         The heat index thing doesn’t even begin to cover it, honestly. Right now, it’s 92F and feels like 105F. I’m sorry, but no. I know 105F. I have met 105F many times, and as long as one stays out of direct sun as much as possible, 105F is perfectly fine. You, sir, are no 105F. You, sir, are an armpit.

         I never understood the “but it’s a dry heat har har” thing until I moved to the Midwest, and yeah, gimme a dry heat any day. Dry heat deals endurance damage. Humidity deals endurance damage plus psychic damage. Dry heat saps your energy, but humidity saps your will to live.
         1. Kuddel Daddeldu* July 23, 2025 at 5:11 pm

            I’ve worked in hot and humid (e.g., Singapore; think Houston or Miami on steroids – there are over 120 miles of covered walkways as it’s raining so much; i lived in both cities for months, in summer) as well as hot and dry (Libyan desert, over 100F with full PPE required – went through 6+ liters/2 gallons of water daily) climates.
            The dry climate was easier to deal with. Cold and dry Antarctica was my favourite though.
8. Nancy Drew* July 22, 2025 at 12:27 am

   For OP 3: Do you have one of those cooling neck pads? I have several friends who swear by them.
   And Evian (and probably some other companies) make canisters of spray water. Another life saver.
   1. Career regulator* July 22, 2025 at 12:54 am

      Is spray water helpful in humid heat? I could imagine it making the person feel worse!

      A neck-worn fan might be helpful, but apparently the battery only lasts about 4 hours, so the OP might need 2 to get through a whole day.
      1. Myrin* July 22, 2025 at 1:13 am

         Is spray water helpful in humid heat?

         I personally find it super helpful although for the life of me I can’t tell you why – you’re essentially adding another layer of moisture to what is already a layer of moisture but somehow, unlike sweat, it’s not uncomfortable.

         (Although IDK if “spray water” is literally just water that you spray, now that I think about it. Evian makes bottled water, so that would make sense. We have a product here called “water spray” which is sold in certain drugstores and I’m pretty sure there’s something in it that doesn’t just make it pure water, which is probably what makes it feel different.)
         1. Emmy Noether* July 22, 2025 at 3:07 am

            Mmh, I’m pretty sure the water sprays I’ve seen (and I live near you) are 100% water.

            I think the difference is that sweat is at body temp to start with, while the spray droplets are already cooler than you when they hit you, so you get an immediate cooling effect.

            For best cooling effect, put water (spray or just splash yourself with tap water) anywhere that veins/arteries run close to the skin. Inside wrists, elbows and knees and on the neck.
            1. Myrin* July 22, 2025 at 3:45 am

               Totally possible! I got one in my fridge so I’ll look at it more closely when I get home. I do have the “scentless” one, though, so the ones that purport to smell like watermelon (or whatever) must at least carry some additional component.
            2. AcademiaNut* July 22, 2025 at 3:46 am

               For humid weather, you really need to add a fan after spraying you, otherwise the water doesn’t evaporate and just drips down your body.
            3. Adhd-49* July 22, 2025 at 4:23 am

               Non-serious (but true) suggestion: If you spray alcohol mist on yourself, it will cool you down much more effectively than water mist, even if it is RH 100%. But I’m afraid it will be terribly unhealthy for your skin.

               I swear I have never thought about this before, but the discussion led me to connect the dots.
               1. JustaTech* July 22, 2025 at 2:16 pm

                  As someone who has done this many times with 70% rubbing alcohol, but never on my bare skin – yes, it is incredibly effective at cooling you down.

                  It’s standard procedure in biology labs to regularly spray your gloves with some kind of alcohol spray (isopropanol or ethanol) as part of aseptic (clean) processing. Some times the cooling effect is really nice. Other times it’s miserably cold – it depends on the air temperature in your lab. Also, labs tend to run dry just because of how many different kinds of air filters are running all the time.

                  You are also right that spraying your base skin with alcohol is *incredibly* drying and eventually painful. Also, the smell is quite strong and you don’t want to get it in your eyes or inhale it.
            4. Be Gneiss* July 22, 2025 at 7:31 am

               I worked in a processing plant where it was regularly 85+ and 90% humidity, and we used these little neck cooling towels. You just got them wet in the sink and they felt cool, but we would also throw them in the freezer. It’s low-tech, and I do think your employer should do something to make you more comfortable, but it could help.
            5. Myrin* July 22, 2025 at 10:54 am

               Okay, I’m home and have the spray and its list of ingredients in front of me right now: water, glycerin, citric acid, sodium benzoate, potassium sorbate, nitrogen.
               1. Hlao-roo* July 22, 2025 at 11:48 am

                  Thank you for the follow-through! I’m in the US and haven’t seen water spray before. I enjoy learning these interesting tidbits about other countries!
               2. All nitro, all the time* July 22, 2025 at 12:54 pm

                  It’s the nitrogen that is making you feel cooler. Aerosolized nitrogen can feel like a mild “breeze” on your skin, to a blast of cold air, to a freezing / almost painful icy feeling. All depends on the concentration of the nitrogen. (Source: Me, dermatology patient that’s had nitrogen-based treatments for skin problems).
                  1. LookAtMeI'mTheManagerNow* July 22, 2025 at 6:14 pm

                     I don’t think this product contains liquid nitrogen. I would guess it doesn’t meaningfully contain elemental nitrogen except in the sense that it’s packaged with air.
            6. Aerin* July 22, 2025 at 3:57 pm

               Working Jungle Cruise in SoCal I used to pour cold water over my inner wrists. It’s astonishingly effective. Damp paper towel inside the collar was also popular.
         2. Nina* July 22, 2025 at 6:17 am

            Something that evaporates at a lower temperature than water would probably have a helpful cooling effect – like isopropanol/rubbing alcohol.
      2. allathian* July 22, 2025 at 1:39 am

         The sprays only work in dry heat.

         Granted, when I was an intern in Spain 30 years ago and daytime highs routinely hit 38 C/100 F and there was no AC anywhere, certainly not at the office, my ability to tolerate the heat was much better than now when I’m 30 years older and 50 lbs heavier. The best office perk we had was an unlimited supply of free chilled bottled water, the second best was salty snacks. But this was in the semidesert climate of central Spain where you could walk outside during the hottest part of the day without breaking into a sweat because any moisture evaporated as soon as it appeared. The air was so dry that I had to use tinted lip balm with sunscreen rather than lipstick to avoid chapped lips. I drank about a gallon of water every day and didn’t use the bathroom any more often than I normally do when I drink less than half that amount in a cooler climate. It also helped a lot that most of the heat dissipated into space at night, even in July temperatures dropped to about 5 C/ 41 F in the early hours of the morning when I went home after a weekend night of pubcrawling with my roommates.

         But I know from personal experience that 80 F in a humid climate feels hotter than 100 F in a dry climate.
      3. GreenApplePie* July 22, 2025 at 9:54 am

         It’s helpful if the water is chilled, but hopefully it’s not so humid indoors that it can’t evaporate!
         1. CoffeeTime* July 22, 2025 at 1:13 pm

            And if it is humid, if you’ve got a fan that will help the water evaporate and provide the intended cooling effect.
      4. Worldwalker* July 22, 2025 at 12:19 pm

         I was at an outdoor event (Fireworks on July 4, which ended up being rained out) where the temperature was in the low 90s and the humidity was at “sticky” levels, and one of those fans kept me sane.

         Mine will work while charging (USB-C) so if I need to, I can just plug it into a battery pack. One of the particularly useful features of mine is that the fans can be aimed at the part of your face you particularly want cooled. Unfortunately, they “improved” it an the new version is reviewed as junk.
   2. MarriedChildlessCatLady* July 22, 2025 at 11:46 am

      In Thailand, I regularly ate boat noodle soup on hot days to help regulate my body temperature.
      1. Phone Voice* July 22, 2025 at 4:26 pm

         I remember eating lots of soup during my childhood in the Caribbean for this reason.
   3. Church Basement Lady* July 22, 2025 at 10:04 pm

      Froggy Togg Chilly Pads! They are amazing.
9. glt on wry* July 22, 2025 at 12:34 am

   OP#2, your situation has inklings of a future Grisham plot! You sound like a strong person, and good for you for sticking to your guns. It might be tough (or at least annoying), as the company seems to be turning up the pressure, but your reasoning is so valid and well spoken that I think you very competently have your own back, along with ATM’s reinforcement. Hang in there:)
   1. hmmm* July 22, 2025 at 11:28 am

      I was thinking the same thing! I thought John Grisham, Harlan Coben or Michael Connelly but same difference.
10. nnn* July 22, 2025 at 12:38 am

    Reading #1, I’m actually kind of impressed that your young new hires have the courage and confidence to just email people when they have a question! When I was that age, I was scared to reach out to anyone and always had to work up the nerve to do it, so I’m proud to see the younger generation surpassing me! They just need a bit of course correction.

    In addition to what Alison advises, a useful thing to have in all kinds of contexts is a “Who to ask for what” list. It not only points people in the right direction, but gives them a sense of the scope of the right direction. (e.g. if “Email the CEO directly” isn’t in any of the examples on the list, maybe that’s not something you should be defaulting to doing).

    When I’m writing up a “Who to ask for what” for novices, I always include something like “In case of an unforeseen situation not covered by this list, start by asking in your immediate team chat.”
    1. AE* July 22, 2025 at 11:34 am

       My friends in academia also report that there are some students, who, when they have any interaction with a professor that makes them unhappy (including receiving constructive criticism or a grade they disagree with) will go directly to the department head. (Not the equivalent of a new hire emailing the CEO, but sort of the same idea.)

       To be very clear, this is NOT a majority of students (I’m also a millennial and don’t want to make “kids these days” generalizations), but the behavior for this minority seems to have grown more pronounced over time. I think part of it is that students understandably feel insecure about their education, career, and future, and feel the need to have a “perfect” college career in order to help insulate them from future risk and unhappiness.
    2. Daisy-dog* July 22, 2025 at 11:52 am

       A past employer had a group chat of more seasoned employees that were still peers and told us to message that group whenever we were stumped on something. We also had lists of other contacts for specific issues, but were encouraged to go to the group chat if we weren’t sure which was the best route.
    3. MA Dad* July 24, 2025 at 9:31 am

       I’m also impressed. I’m in my 40s and I’m still scared to ask for help.
11. MrsGreenJeans* July 22, 2025 at 12:39 am

    OP2 – you do not need to respond at all any more. You’ve given your answer, it was the right thing to do, block them now.
    It is not your problem any more.
    And keep the documentation of their ask and your refusal, juuuust in case.
    1. Bluey* July 22, 2025 at 8:59 am

       Yes! I disagree with all of the suggestions for scripts and responses. Since the LW has already refused in no uncertain terms (and presumably has a copy of their refusal), they should not engage any further. Don’t open that door even a crack. You’re not going to be able to convince these people that what they’re doing is wrong, so don’t even try.
    2. I Have RBF* July 22, 2025 at 1:18 pm

       Yeah, screenshot the texts, too, and save them somewhere safe – maybe even a USB key in a safe deposit box. Keep copies of any and all documentation. This place sounds skeevy with wanting you to commit fraud for them after they laid you off.

       If they paid you a consulting rate for your services to do the filing or whatever, then you would be a contract employee and the login would be valid for you to use. But if you are not employed by them, they can’t use your login.
12. Secret Secretary* July 22, 2025 at 12:42 am

    If I were in #2’s place, not only would I absolutely refuse to sign anything from the former employer. but I would also be looking for a way to change the login information and/or contact someone at the government agency to alert them about the former employer’s intent. I would not want to be considered an accessory by omission.
    1. Hello God, it's me, Margaret* July 22, 2025 at 12:50 am

       Yes, this. If you can’t change the login yourself, I’d send a friendly email to the agency telling them you’re no longer the person for Company x.
       1. Bird names* July 22, 2025 at 1:45 am

          +1
    2. Metal Gru* July 22, 2025 at 1:52 am

       I agree, LW should contact the agency that the login is for somehow and warn them that the employer is trying to do this. If LW continues to refuse to provide it (as they are quite right to), one way this could continue is the employer contacting the agency, impersonating LW, that “I’ve forgotten my login details” or whatever. The agency needs to know that LW is still in control of the login but it is no longer a valid association with the employer. Also, the employer may be in violation of some regulatory requirement by no longer having someone on staff who can do this.
    3. Bilateralrope* July 22, 2025 at 2:08 am

       I might give the former employer one chance to rehire me. Making it clear that rehiring me is the only way they will get use of my login.

       If that fails, or I’ve found work elsewhere, I’d consider getting that login disabled. Though we might be talking about something that the LW wants to keep access to because it would be very helpful for future jobs.

       Either way, the minimum thing to do is change the password. Just in case the former employer had a keylogger running.
       1. General von Klinkerhoffen* July 22, 2025 at 4:35 am

          It would be very difficult not to reply to the employer with some variation on “so you do still need me after all, huh”.

          I’m imagining any of this coming up in discovery, and rolling my eyes.

          Prosecution: Exhibit 1 shows that Tangerina Warbleworth submitted the TPS report on July 22nd, correct?

          BadBoss: Yes, that’s right.

          P: Exhibit 2 shows that Tangerina left your employment on June 7th.

          BB: Um…
    4. Pepperminty* July 22, 2025 at 2:09 am

       You cannot risk them trying to use your login, especially if it is tied to email accounts or devices they have access to.

       I work on a service that sounds similar, but in the UK, and we have mitigations in place that would stop someone being able to use another person’s login (obviously not going to say here what they are). You cannot just get in with a username and password. Even so, we would want to know if someone was being pressured to use their login in this way.

       I disagree with Alison’s advice – the language in that answer is far too soft. Screenshot everything they’ve sent you. Reply once informing them that as what they are suggesting is illegal, you will not be discussing it with them further.
    5. hedgewitch* July 22, 2025 at 5:32 am

       Yes, absolutely! Do everything you can so that they can’t use your credentials even without your permission and make sure that the government agency knows that you aren’t abetting fraud.

       Personally, I’ve always been taught never to give my credentials to anyone else, even for low stakes internal company systems. If someone needs access, they should absolutely go through the correct process to get it with their own credentials.
    6. Anon for This* July 22, 2025 at 7:07 am

       Fed here. Absolutely contact the government office that manages your credentials and tell them you no longer work there and wish to be sure your credentials are de-activated. Your former employer’s HR may have the info needed to impersonate you, so do this immediately. You don’t need to say anything about their trying to use your credentials if you don’t want to. If, after you report you no longer work there, someone tried to use your credentials, they’ll figure it out.
       1. Rogue Slime Mold* July 22, 2025 at 8:21 am

          And do it in writing, so you can point to it if this blows up.
          1. Observer* July 22, 2025 at 10:35 am

             Yes. Do it, do it in writing and keep an extra copy.
       2. Hannah Lee* July 22, 2025 at 9:40 am

          This sounds like a good move. Also, keep copies, notes on who you contacted and when, and any confirmation they give you.
       3. I Count the Llamas* July 22, 2025 at 10:21 am

          Absolutely this. I had a federal login at a previous job very similar to the one LW2 describes. I was laid off and I heard from former coworkers that management was using my login. I notified the federal agency I was no longer with the company as of X date. The login was shut down and my former employer got into quite a bit of trouble – not only were they late submitting required reports, they were fined for fraudulent use of my login credentials.
          1. MigraineMonth* July 22, 2025 at 11:32 am

             Did it blow back on you?
             1. I Count the Llamas* July 22, 2025 at 1:20 pm

                No, and I can only speculate that my notification plus my termination date would prove I wasn’t involved. There certainly was no communication (written or otherwise) where I gave anyone at the company my login credentials.
       4. Also anon for this* July 22, 2025 at 1:08 pm

          This cannot be emphasized enough OP! I don’t know the specific terms of use for your login, but if they have a “I certify this is me” button every time I would be willing to bet there is some language requiring you to take measures to prevent your credentials from being used fraudulently.
13. Sparrow* July 22, 2025 at 12:50 am

    LW#1, something that might be helpful to remember: you say that when you were new to the workforce, you would’ve never, ever made this specific mistake—and that very well may be true! But unless you’re that extraordinarily rare person who genuinely never mistakes in work (a person who is such a unicorn I’m personally not even sure they exist), you probably made plenty of other embarrassing mistakes when you were new to the workforce, right? And I imagine you would’ve been miffed if you heard your older coworkers disparaging you for those mistakes and attributing it to your generation.
    1. Zombeyonce* July 22, 2025 at 1:34 am

       They can’t be that rare, one of these unicorns wrote in and even updated us later!

       https://www.askamanager.org/2024/02/i-was-rejected-because-i-told-my-interviewer-i-never-make-mistakes.html
       1. Observer* July 22, 2025 at 10:38 am

          LOL!

          LW, I certainly hope you are not that person!
       2. Sparrow* July 23, 2025 at 3:09 am

          Oh man, that is definitely one of my all-time favorite letters. I think about it every single tiem I hear anyone claim they never make mistakes!
    2. Ellis Bell* July 22, 2025 at 4:32 am

       I think people get disconcerted when people make an error that is not the same as the errors they made when learning. When people make the same errors, people feel more comfortable making the correction because they can just pull the directions to course correct out of their memory, and it all seems particularly of the learning process. But, it’s not that hard to redirect people even if it’s not an error you yourself aren’t familiar with making. Just say the thing you’d want to be told if you were making an excruciating mistake: “You should definitely check these sorts of questions with your colleagues or manager first”, if they seem particularly clueless about taking on that feedback, it’s worth making it a verbal conversation if they’re nearby “The higher up you go, the busier people are, so start by asking peers, and only then try your manager; I definitely wouldn’t approach the CEO without asking your manager if it’s appropriate to do that.” Or if they’re not nearby and you don’t have the bandwidth, forward the feedback to their manager for coaching. If it’s an happening with an awful lot of people, it can be worth making this statement more en masse as part of onboarding. I’ve been in schools where there were attempts at teaching this sort of independence in a bid to stop the teacher being asked the same thing repeatedly and the catchphrase was “Try three before me” where the students were told to check the board, check the book, and to ask a friend (in special study sessions) before asking the teacher. Oddly I don’t think we’ve done this with kids since the pandemic.
       1. HB* July 22, 2025 at 11:32 am

          Adding to this:

          When working with new staff I have an idea of the type of mistakes they’re going to make – lets say A, B, and C. And they make also make D, E, and F mistakes but when I find out about them, I can see that they’re really just iterations of A, B, and C. But if they throw in an X then my brain immediately jumps to two assumptions/thoughts:

          1) This is in *addition* to the A, B, and C mistakes
          2) Because the X is completely out of scope of the anticipated mistakes, I’m now concerned about what other type of mistakes they may be making that I don’t know about, and I don’t know to look for

          In some cases I think the weirder mistakes come from the fact that when you’re first learning a job, there’s a heavy reliance on process – much of which may seem random or arbitrary. Over time as you become comfortable, you’ll see how all the pieces work together as part of a system and that it’s *not* random or arbitrary. However until you reach that point, I think you tend to turn your brain off a little – so you’ll do things somewhat blindly and that can lead you to some *really* weird places that other people who understand the system find inconceivable. As a weird/extreme example, think of stories of people who drive their car into bodies of water because their GPS system told them to turn right. Those stories sound ridiculous because everyone should know not to drive their car into a lake just because the GPS said to… but there are lots of things in our jobs that *seem* as obvious as “that’s a lake – don’t drive into it” but when you’re brand new to a job, you may not know what a lake looks like. Or you could think it looks like a lake, but the process wouldn’t tell you to drive into one so *you* must be mistaken. Or you absolutely know it’s a lake because your supervisor spent an hour describing them to you and how you should avoid them at all costs, but your process told you to drive into the lake so that’s what you’re going to do.
    3. Tea Monk* July 22, 2025 at 8:25 am

       Yes, every time a generation comes of age , it’s they are lazy/ bad/ whatever instead of 22 year olds don’t have the experience to understand things and you need time to sand off some parts of the personality. Even a Gen Z who became manager of a retail store at 17 would need time to adjust to the office
    4. Rex Libris* July 22, 2025 at 9:52 am

       I think it’s actually a cultural shift that isn’t translating well to the workplace. Social relationships have become more casual and egalitarian, while many workplaces have remained rather structured and hierarchical. It’s not necessarily a generational thing, as such.

       That said, I have noticed what seems like a remarkable inability to “read the room” and pick up on office norms through observation with some of our younger staff.
       1. Don’t know what to call myself* July 22, 2025 at 10:12 am

          Yeah, I think Gen Z was brought up with lower levels of hierarchical thinking than prior generations.

          Gen X and Millennials were much less interested in teaching our children to fear us than prior generations were, so as a result, Gen Z and Gen Alpha are much more likely to believe that authority figures are there to provide help and support.

          So a situation where I, an elder Millennial latch key kid, learned from childhood experience that there were times when an authority figure wouldn’t be available and I should try to figure it out in my own as best I could before calling my mom at work, isn’t something that Gen Z will have had as much practice with.
       2. fhqwhgads* July 22, 2025 at 10:59 am

          In this specific case, I don’t think it has anything to do with hierarchy. In my experience it’s very common for new people – of any age – to find one person they’re comfortable with, who they think is nice, who they think is not-judgey, and that becomes their go-to for questions. All questions. No matter how many times they’re told that person is not the appropriate target. Not even for hierarchical reasons. More like that person literally doesn’t know and someone else would, or that person does not have access and someone else does. New people ask their comfortable person first because they expect the comfortable person not to be a jerk when telling them “not me, someone else”. Whereas if they guess the someone else and are wrong, they are perhaps concerned that wrong person will be a jerk.
          I have no explanation for why the OP’s new people think asking the CEO run of the mill questions makes any sense. Someone else posited some people think this is “networking” and finding an excuse to talk to a higher-up accomplishes it. That’s the best theory I’ve seen as to why this happens. It’s not actually accomplishing that, but I can see how someone might think it does.
          1. MigraineMonth* July 22, 2025 at 11:40 am

             I 100% do this when new at a job, and I’m pretty far in my career. I find someone knowledgeable about the organization who doesn’t object to lots of questions and make friends with them. Then when I have a question, they can at least point me in the direction of the right person to ask.
14. Leenie* July 22, 2025 at 12:50 am

    It’s amazing that LW#2’s employer is desperate enough to commit fraud, but apparently not desperate enough to simply offer her her job back, even on a temporary basis – long enough for them to get their situation worked out, and maybe long enough for LW to find alternative employment.

    LW#2 – Please don’t be complicit in fraud here. These people can’t even figure out what’s in their own best interest, let alone protect you.
    1. Lawyer up* July 22, 2025 at 1:48 am

       That is another good point and I really would be talking to a lawyer at this point.
       What if the retaliate give bad references? Or if they give then their job back and fire them immediately afterwards again?

       OP is young and cannot afford to bear the consequences of a somewhat desperate employer.
    2. Bilateralrope* July 22, 2025 at 2:04 am

       Yeah, I noticed that as well. Not a single offer of money.

       If I was in the LW’s position, I’d be saying that they can hire me back to get legal use of that login. Or they can go without it. With one of those options only existing until I find work elsewhere.

       It sounds like the LW is aware of how much income is dependent on having that login. Which would be useful in negotiating compensation.
    3. Boof* July 22, 2025 at 7:55 am

       Right? Not “oh please come back” but “oh please let us impersonate you”
       Like… no? Hell no? What are they even thinking asking such a thing is this a joke – absolutely no??! LW2 no need to soft pedal this!
    4. Ellis Bell* July 22, 2025 at 9:06 am

       Well, commiting fraud is free/cheap compared to employing someone, in the short term at least. I think the obvious answer is to consistently refuse, the only dilemma is how politely you phrase it and at what point you stop responding. I don’t know that I would even be very concerned about my reference here; it seems like they’re circling the drain.
    5. LizB* July 22, 2025 at 9:37 am

       Seriously! “Oh no, we laid off the person who could do X, who did perfectly good work for us, is still contactable, and currently out of work. Better do a fraud!!” What the heck is in these people’s skulls, dryer lint?

       LW2, you’d be well within your rights to say, I’ll come back on board for 10 hours a week (or whatever would be sufficient for you to do the necessary work to legitimately sign off), my consulting fee is $[previous hourly rate times 3-5]. Only if you want to, though!
15. Mabby* July 22, 2025 at 12:59 am

    LW2 under no circumstances. If you did, nothing the company can do could erase the fact that you willingly shared your credentials so I’d not trust any indemnification. You may want to think about what your answer will be if they ask you to come back to work for them.
    1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow* July 22, 2025 at 3:52 am

       Do not accept any offer to return, even with a tempting pay rise. Too risky to work for a company so eager to defraud the govt.
       1. DJ Abbott* July 22, 2025 at 6:46 am

          This is where I land also. All my alarm bells are going off on this one. This company will do anything, and they won’t care if they hurt you or anyone else. I would cover all my bases.
          1. Send them something in writing that they are absolutely NOT allowed to use your credentials. You are NOT giving them permission. Be very firm! These are not your friends.
          2. As suggested above, let the government agency know this is happening. I would not just send an email because it might be a while before it’s seen. I would find someone I can call and let them know right now. And then follow up in writing.
          3. If you can change or remove the login credentials yourself, do so.
          4. If you can afford it, consult a lawyer to cover anything I’m not thinking of.
          I’m old, I’ve seen a lot more than you, and there are people and employers who will do bad things without caring who gets hurt. This employer is one of them. Your priority is protecting yourself. Do not worry about how they feel or what happens to them.
       2. Hannah Lee* July 22, 2025 at 9:42 am

          Great point!

          You want to be days and miles away from that joint when the ish hits.
       3. Observer* July 22, 2025 at 12:04 pm

          Do not accept any offer to return, even with a tempting pay rise. Too risky to work for a company so eager to defraud the govt.

          I think you are right. At this point, you’ve been put on notice that these people will try to get away with whatever illegality they can manage. Which would also make it easier for them to throw you under the bus.
       4. Mabby* July 23, 2025 at 2:05 am

          Good point. Also if they returned, the company may find some way to log keystrokes so they could get the login/pw without their knowledge.
    2. Irish Teacher.* July 22, 2025 at 6:57 am

       Yeah, that promise would freak me the heck out. “Please help us. We promise to protect you from any legal consequences of doing so.” That sounds…ominous. People don’t give those kind of guarantees unless there is a real risk here.
       1. Ellis Bell* July 22, 2025 at 9:08 am

          Yeah I think Captain Awkward calls it the crimson flag of unsolicited reassurances. You know what else protects you from legal fallout? Not participating at all!
          1. MigraineMonth* July 22, 2025 at 2:22 pm

             Thank you for that enjoyable rabbit-hole!
    3. Worldwalker* July 22, 2025 at 8:52 am

       Willingly shared your credentials when you were no longer an employee, so they couldn’t even threaten to fire you if you did not; they’ve already done that.
16. LinesInTheSand* July 22, 2025 at 1:11 am

    Hey OP3, I feel for you. I’d be constantly falling asleep at that temp.

    If adjusting the office temp isn’t an option for some reason, you might want to check out the technology race car drivers use: https://paragonproinc.com/product/arctic-seat-seat-cover-w-pad/

    I used one of these at my desk when I had no AC and it was a lifesaver. You’ll want to keep some extra water bottles frozen so you can swap them out during the day.
17. Ruby* July 22, 2025 at 1:21 am

    LW3, you do have my empathy!! I walk around half clothed at home w thermostat at 69, and I’m still hot. I’m lucky my office has a big window, but it causes what I call “the afternoon heatwave”. I have a fan on my desk, I dress in the lightest clothing possible. Even camis, with a cardigan or light jacket over that I can strip off and not worry about seeming underdressed once I close my office door. I still overheat. Not to the point that you do, but still sweating, bright red/purple cheeks. I always find taking my shoes off helps, for whatever reason. And screw people judging your size. I’m quite small and am clearly not immune to overheating. I’ve had heat stroke once, and it wasn’t at work. But my cheapskate company is jacking up the temps in the office to save money, so it could happen to me one day too! I’d be languishing in jeans- maybe you can find an alternative to that? And def get a fan!!
    1. Zombeyonce* July 22, 2025 at 1:37 am

       A pants change could make a big difference! Some cotton pants in a dark color that won’t show sweat might be helpful, especially if the legs are wide to let in more airflow. A second fan under the desk pointed straight up your pant legs can be a lifesaver (ask me how I know).
    2. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow* July 22, 2025 at 4:01 am

       At FinalJob, indoor temps in the summer were often 26C (79F) so I would wear loose knee-length shorts, sleeveless tops and hiking sandals, which helped a lot.
       Do you have any dress code? imo if a company cheaps out on AC, then at least they need to allow whatever clothing keeps you cool.
    3. Monkeying Around for Money* July 22, 2025 at 11:19 am

       If you’ve had heat exhaustion or heat stroke, you become more sensitive to it going forward apparently. I got to the “talking in tongues” point of heat exhaustion once, but I wasn’t alone and we both figured it out quickly enough to leave the area.

       There’s a lot of products marketed to physical labourers that could probably help OP3 with this, as well as some excellent suggestions in other comments.

       If OP3 has a doctor, it might be worth looping them in as well, especially if the temperature war escalates!
18. YetAnotherContractor* July 22, 2025 at 1:26 am

    LW2 this is the sort of thing that gets lawyers suspended or disbarred (it’s currently a big problem in trademark prosecution) https://harris-sliwoski.com/chinalawblog/china-trademark-mills-abuse-us-trademar-system/ and https://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/protect/recognizing-common-scams
19. just some guy* July 22, 2025 at 1:33 am

    If US government is anything like the ones I’m used to, LW #2 would have been required to sign some agreement not to share those login details with anybody, potentially with an additional acknowledgement that they will be held responsible for any activity on that login. Indemnity against actions taken against the company seems very unlikely to protect against actions taken against LW #2 for breaching that agreement. It’s also likely that LW #2 would have been requested to let the issuing agency know when these credentials are no longer required; while this often gets forgotten, this would be a great time to do it.
    1. Georgia* July 22, 2025 at 6:45 am

       I was thinking the same thing. I have a couple US government credentials/certifications and I really could end up in deep trouble for allowing someone else to use them including heavy fines and prison time. There’s a reason it’s an involved process to get them and I guard them carefully.
    2. Kay* July 22, 2025 at 1:12 pm

       I am surprised this point hasn’t been raised/highlighted more – you really do need to try to remedy this OP.
20. Skytext* July 22, 2025 at 1:48 am

    LW2, good for you for not letting your former company pressure you into this. Save all the emails and text messages, screenshots if you need to keep things from disappearing. The Petty Betty in me almost wants you to contact this government agency or whatever and inform them that your former employer is trying to fraudulently use your credentials.
    1. DJ Abbott* July 22, 2025 at 7:10 am

       It’s not petty! It would protect her if the employer figures out a way to use her login without her permission. She should do it!
       1. Observer* July 22, 2025 at 12:08 pm

          Agreed!

          Not petty at all. And in fact, it’s probably the best thing that the LW could do.

          This way, if the company tries too hard to use the credentials and gets in trouble over it, the LW can show that they not only did not help out “under the table”, but that they actually took action to prevent the bad behavior to the extent that it was possible.
21. Samwise* July 22, 2025 at 2:04 am

    OP 2: Alison’s script is perfect with one change — leave out “I’d help if I could”. You don’t want to deal with them proposing something like You can work as an independent contractor for two hours a week.
22. learnedthehardway* July 22, 2025 at 2:53 am

    OP#4 – recruiter here – there are a million things that happen in recruitment. You really cannot know why you’re being interviewed a week later than other internal candidates. I wouldn’t read anything into it.

    It could be that someone is out of the office and their schedule was booked up by the time they got to scheduling you, so your interview has to wait until the person is available. That’s probably the most logical reason.
    1. M* July 22, 2025 at 9:20 am

       OP4, here’s a short list of possible reasons, which I brainstormed in five minutes, just to illustrate how little you can read into this:
       – the manager for the *other* side of the business has upcoming leave/a busy period, and so the hiring manager is cramming in those interviews so that if she needs to get their manager’s perspective, she has time to do it before then.
       – there’s an upcoming busy period for that side of the business, so those five candidates requested an earlier interview slot
       – the hiring manager thinks you’re the most likely candidate, so wants an initial interview done for the other five quickly, to either drop them from consideration, or leave time for a second, longer, interview with any of them that surprise her
       – the hiring manager is waiting on input from *your* manager, or someone senior on your side of the business, who has a busy period, so has scheduled your interview later so you’re not waiting to hear about an interview time
       – the hiring manager’s assistant stuffed up the interview scheduling process, but not enough that it’s worth moving the interview times
       – the hiring manager expects to have to argue more strenuously for hiring someone from the other side of the business, for any number of reasons, and so is giving herself more time to make that case if she needs to
       – the hiring manager got pushback on hiring someone from *your* side of the business, so took longer to schedule your interview than the other five, but still wanted to give you the same amount of time to prepare
       – the hiring manager lost your application temporarily, then realised and scheduled an interview, but still wanted to give you the same amount of time to prepare
       – the hiring manager waited longer for input from your manager before scheduling your interview, but still wanted to give you the same amount of time to prepare
       – the hiring manager is waiting on approval to increase the number of people hired from 1 to 2, and would only hire someone from your side of the business if that came through
       – the hiring manager knows she wants to hire someone from your side of the business, so your interview’s more a formality, but she thinks she can make the case for hiring a second person if there’s someone excellent in the group of five
       – the hiring manager wants a particular person from her team to join your interview, and they’re on leave
       – the hiring manager wants a particular person from her team to join the interviews for the other five, and they have upcoming leave
       – they applied earlier, so their interviews were actually scheduled a while ago, and by the time the hiring team got to your application they were being pickier about who to schedule an interview with

       etc, etc, etc. You really can’t read much into interview scheduling.
       1. Steve* July 22, 2025 at 11:50 am

          My assumption was that it’s easy to compare the qualifications of people on the same side of the business, but difficult to compare people on different sides so they’re going to find the best person among the other group and then see if they’d rather hire them or you.
          1. M* July 22, 2025 at 12:47 pm

             Also a distinct possibility, as are all of Alison’s, as are any number of other possibilities. Point is, as Alison and learnedthehardway say, you just can’t read into interview scheduling like that.
          2. Sue* July 22, 2025 at 2:51 pm

             I also thought that. That they want you and are needing to sort through the others and then will get to you. I would take it as a positive sign.
       2. Aerin* July 22, 2025 at 4:08 pm

          I have conducted 5 interviews in 2 days before and I was a gently weeping pile of mush by the end of it. It is. A lot. And you’re having the same conversation over and over but have to keep them all straight in your head. (Of course there are notes, but you still have to summon the person back into your mind as you compare and rank.)

          There are of course loads of factors that could go into it, but that one alone would be plenty for me.
23. Office Gumby* July 22, 2025 at 3:14 am

    #2: By all means do NOT sign that indemnification documentation! No good will come of it. You’ve said no and that should be the end of it. If you really want to cover your back end, you could get the opinion of an employment lawyer. Your question is not, “Should I sign this document?” but “I do not want to sign this document. Tell me I’m right.” Then you can go back to your former company and tell them you’ve sought legal advice, and they advised against signing. You are no longer a verified agent of that company; your login should not be used for their benefit.
    Are you under a legal obligation to inform the government agency that you are no longer an agent of that company? You don’t have to tell them the company is busy trying to commit fraud, only that you no longer work for them.
    (If something bad happens to this company because they dismissed someone vital before determining just how vital you were, that’s entirely their fault and none of yours. Let the chips fall where they will.)
    1. Bilateralrope* July 22, 2025 at 3:53 am

       I don’t think there is any need to go to a lawyer yet. Right now, LW #2 can use “I don’t work for you because you laid me off” in response to everything their former employer has said so far. Unless the former employer comes back with a job offer or legal threats.
    2. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow* July 22, 2025 at 4:05 am

       No need for the expense & time waste, consulting a lawyer: there is no possibility that the OP is required to participate in fraud with a former employer.
       Also, if the intention is to make the company back off, they are just as likely to claim your lawyer is too cautious.
       Just refuse, block them, keep all their EMs & your replies and inform the agency you no longer work there
    3. Michigander* July 22, 2025 at 5:11 am

       “If something bad happens to this company because they dismissed someone vital before determining just how vital you were, that’s entirely their fault and none of yours.”

       Yep! They didn’t think this through before laying you off, so now they get to deal with the consequences. You don’t work there anymore and this is not a problem you have to help them with. Alison’s response is more polite than I’d probably want to be, but I guess you don’t want to be too abrupt to start with in case you jeopardize a reference.
24. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow* July 22, 2025 at 3:34 am

    #2 You were absolutely right not to sign – well done for resisting pressure to do so.

    Your former employer has shown they are dishonest, so they may next impersonate you at the agency claiming you forgot the password. So, to cover yourself, I recommend you contact the agency to inform them that you no longer work at that company AND that they keep asking you to use your login, which you will continue refusing to do.
    1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow* July 22, 2025 at 3:49 am

       Of course, if you had agreed to participate as requested in this fraud, you can be sure that the company would try to blame you for everything.
       You cannot trust promises from dishonest people, which is also why I disagree with suggestions above that you use this as leverage to get your job back: it is too dangerous to work for crooks.

       As a condition of using these credentials, you – not your company – may in fact be required to inform the agency that you have left.
       If they are discovered trying to fraudulently use your login, you will want to show you did due diligence by keeping the agency informed of these requests and your refusals.
       1. D C F* July 22, 2025 at 11:30 am

          “You cannot trust promises from dishonest people.”
          Exactly right, and very well put.
25. Zaphod Beeblebrox* July 22, 2025 at 3:42 am

    #2 sounds like a classic case of “We’ll respect your decision, as long as it’s the one we want”.
26. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow* July 22, 2025 at 4:10 am

    #1 I wish people would stop all these sweeping mentions of generations, whether young or old: clueless people can be of any age, especially if they are new to the workforce or have not worked for several years.
    1. Scott (the grumpy one)* July 22, 2025 at 7:21 am

       Right there with you on this idea. The whole concept is bizarre to me.
    2. Beyond the sea* July 22, 2025 at 7:39 am

       Very much so. I work someone who took several years off to care for aging parents. She struggled alot at the beginning. She has caught up, but it was def a struggle for a while.
    3. Potatohead* July 22, 2025 at 8:06 am

       After all, only a Sith deals in absolutes.
    4. Rogue Slime Mold* July 22, 2025 at 8:25 am

       Ecclesiastes 7:10: Do not say “Why were the old days better than these?”

       That’s from about 2300 years ago. I believe you can also find the sentiment in Sanskrit and hieroglyphs.
27. Anon tonight* July 22, 2025 at 4:16 am

    LW3, that’s warmer than the average (US) office, for sure, but you say you got heatstroke and have to stay home sick the next day. Definitely see what can be done about the HVAC if it’s really over 78, and the other suggestions, but even without being a doctor, I think you need to consult your own account this response because it sounds pretty far outside the usual. This really warrants further medical investigation.
    1. Bay* July 22, 2025 at 6:54 am

       I’ve had heatstroke a few times and I’ve been surprised at 1) how debilitating it was, including the next day and 2) how it can happen at lower temperatures. I agree that it’s concerning and worth asking a doctor about, but I don’t think it’s strange to have heatstroke sitting at 77F. Our susceptibility to heat varies a lot from person to person and changes with age, hormones, blood pressure, what we are accustomed to, and a host of other factors
       1. RM* July 22, 2025 at 7:42 am

          I would consider heat exhaustion or heat stroke at 77 quite strange unless the person is being active without breaks in intense humidity. Unless LW has an underlying chronic condition or takes a medication that makes them heat sensitive (lots of medications do this), I would think LW must have started the day *quite* dehydrated or with some kind of pain, since pain could have led to low blood pressure and wooziness.
          1. lost academic* July 22, 2025 at 8:33 am

             This. Heat stroke is clinically a severe situation, it’s an emergency room visit. If this is actually what’s happening (as opposed to heat exhaustion, which is still bad of course) in an office environment, it’s important to investigate what’s happening internally that OP cannot internally manage the environment. That’s NOT to suggest this is entirely an OP problem, but it’s a severe reaction and to prevent it in the future is going to take more than one angle, including this.

             I’ll also say that particularly in my home office, I can absolutely tell the difference between 72, 74, 76 and 78. 78 isn’t as much fun, but for me it’s workable. I prefer adjusting the temperature or making sure the air is moving (as in opening the door, not necessarily a fan) but 72 (and below) requires a lot more clothing when I’m sitting still – American standard office temps gravitate towards “temperatures at which men in suits are comfortable” which women understand to be refrigerators!
             1. Worldwalker* July 22, 2025 at 9:10 am

                This.

                Too many people say “heatstroke” to mean “heat exhaustion” (which is basically shock) or just feeling bad. That’s like the people who claim “allergies” to food they don’t like or call their pets “service dogs.” It’s distorting the actual meaning, and diminishing the perception of the severity of critical situations.

                Heatstroke is a life-threatening medical crisis. The short version is that the body’s cooling mechanism shuts off and you cook yourself from the inside out. If faced with someone suffering from heatstroke, you call the ambulance, cool them down however you can, and hope they survive until the paramedics get there.
                1. CC* July 22, 2025 at 7:29 pm

                   Thank you! It is impressive how many people are just like “oh sure it’s totally normal to get it at 77 if your body runs differently.” No the f it is not.
             2. Divination_Witch* July 22, 2025 at 9:59 am

                Not true. Every single office I’ve been in has been way too hot, and I have had to have a fan at my desk the whole time, and I have been miserable. Now that I work from home I am finally comfortable.
             3. I Have RBF* July 22, 2025 at 1:30 pm

                My brain starts to shut down at 77° F. I have had heat issues in the past – significant overheating to the point I stopped sweating. 78° in an office would be brutal, IMO.
          2. bamcheeks* July 22, 2025 at 10:32 am

             I was wondering about dehydration. My heat tolerance is directly related to how well-hydrated I am: if I’m starting to feel kind of sick and miserable, I usually find that drinking a large glass of water and then sipping a second glass helps massively. At around 25-30c, how much I’ve had to drink is absolutely the difference between “fine” and “feeling awful”.

             (I realise this varies for everyone, but given that LW says they are surprised to have felt so gross at such a low temp and then doesn’t mention that they’d been sipping/drinking water, it’s the first thing I’d try.)
          3. Lilo* July 22, 2025 at 11:19 am

             Yes, and while I’m not saying to doubt the LW, it’s important to use precise language here because saying something that can be dismissed can risk ruining your whole point.
          4. OP #3* July 23, 2025 at 1:25 pm

             Hi RM! OP#3 here! I don’t have the bandwidth to reply to the comments right now, but I felt it worthwhile to reply to yours :)

             Looking back (this happened a couple weeks ago), it could have been contributed to pain! I’ve been having some jaw and neck pain (likely from clenching my jaw from stress) and this would make sense as to why it happened at a relatively low temperature. My facial pain appointment was this morning, so relief should start soon!

             I do agree that this was likely heat exhaustion and not heatstroke. I couldn’t cool myself down at all that afternoon and evening and was out of it the next morning. I might’ve been able to push through, but the thought of going to a hot office stopped me from even trying.

             Also, while I hate being hot, I am much more tolerant to heat than being cold. The second I get too cold, it’s all over for me. I can’t hardly work because, like someone else commented, my brain is spending more energy on keeping me warm than thinking haha.

             Also! FWIW, I’m in a “northern” Midwest metro area, where this kind of weather is becoming more and more common (especially the high humidity and dew points).
       2. Silver Robin* July 22, 2025 at 8:20 am

          this is making me think of the opposite as well: you can get hypothermia at rather high temperatures if you are wet (like if you just went swimming), especially if there is a breeze.

          I genuinely wonder if it was only 78F near LW. Heating can be really uneven in some buildings. Add humidity, low air flow, and the variability of human tolerances, and I honestly would not be surprised if someone had heat stroke.
          1. metadata minion* July 22, 2025 at 8:36 am

             Yeah, humidity can affect a *lot*. Normally high 70s would be my ideal temperature for my mile walk to work, but earlier this summer we had such high humidity that a 76 degree morning had me arriving to work literally dripping with sweat and feeling slightly ill.
             1. londonedit* July 22, 2025 at 8:40 am

                Yep. We’ve had some hot weather in parts of the UK so far this summer, and there’s been a rash of posts on social media from Americans saying ‘OK, OK, I always thought everyone in Britain was just being stupid when they complained about the heat, but I’m in London and THIS IS INSANE’. Because it’s humid, and (apart from places like bigger shops and supermarkets and newer office blocks) we don’t have air con as standard. Going outdoors when it’s 35 degrees C and humid feels like walking through hot soup. It’s vile. And it definitely means you have to watch your water and electrolyte intake, because you lose a lot through sweating.
                1. Scholarly Publisher* July 22, 2025 at 10:24 am

                   “It’s not the heat, it’s the humidity” is a cliche for a reason. I am a heat-tolerant person who needs a cardigan even though my office temperature is 78F/25C; I’m most comfortable at about 82F. Add humidity, though, and I start cranking up the AC.
             2. mango chiffon* July 22, 2025 at 8:51 am

                “Fun” fact, we grow so much corn in the US that a phenomenon called “corn sweat” intensifies heatwaves in the country because corn is adding extra moisture to the air. The midwest US is going through such a situation this week and it can be deadly.
                1. Aerin* July 22, 2025 at 4:10 pm

                   Oh it’s so nice to have something concrete to blame for this nonsense
             3. Worldwalker* July 22, 2025 at 9:15 am

                Humidity matters a lot.

                At a job I had decades ago, I could walk to work in 100F+ temperatures because the humidity was extremely low. (Southern California when a Santa Ana was blowing)

                Here in South Carolina, I don’t even want to go outside when it’s 85F+, because the relative humidity is also 85+.
                1. JustaTech* July 22, 2025 at 2:24 pm

                   When I moved to LA for college my roommate (from the Midwest) and I were saying “wow it’s so hot, it must be at least 90!” and our roommate who was from LA looked at us like we were loons “it’s 103”.

                   It’s amazing the difference in the experience of heat that humidity makes.
          2. Parakeet* July 22, 2025 at 1:49 pm

             Yeah, it’s a thing that unhoused people who don’t have access to regular ways to warm up (like hot showers) can and do get hypothermia in the range of 50-60F. I learned about it from someone who does medical outreach to unhoused people in the Pacific Northwest, where the combination of a large unhoused population in the cities, and temperatures regularly in that range, makes this a big problem.
    2. Soup in Arms* July 22, 2025 at 9:35 am

       My office has gotten up to around 78 a number of times during seasonal shifts where they haven’t changed over to AC yet and I find it extremely difficult to concentrate or really even exist in the office when they do. I have never been particularly heat tolerant, but even more so because of an SSRI that I was prescribed. Not saying LW3 is on an SSRI, but those can make heat intolerance worse.
    3. Thomas* July 22, 2025 at 11:43 am

       Agreed. Wouldn’t surprise me if both the susceptibility to quite moderate heat and the obesity are symptoms of an underlying condition.
    4. Pescadero* July 22, 2025 at 1:29 pm

       For real…

       It is absolutely not normal to have heat stroke (body temperature of 104F/40C) from sitting in a 78F office.
       1. SugarPlumPi* July 22, 2025 at 1:58 pm

          I’m thankful that it’s not common. I’m a teacher in a school without AC, and during the beginning and end of the school year, the temperature in my second floor classroom regularly above 78 degrees. In fact, most years I see plenty of 80+ degree days. (88 degrees is the record!) During those days, we are stuck with trying relocate to available spaces on the ground floor, lots of water breaks, popsicles, and electric fans. Fortunately, none of my students have had a medical issue due to the heat over the years.

          This is certainly not to say that I think what LW is going through isn’t bad. I feel you, LW! I hope you find a way to get some relief (if only so I can live vicariously through you!)
28. Earlk* July 22, 2025 at 5:16 am

    LW1- sounds like your onboarding process is lacking if all the young hires are doing this.
    1. Junior Assistant Peon* July 22, 2025 at 6:57 am

       That’s exactly what I was thinking. I did this kind of thing in a past job where my boss took me out to lunch on my first day and I hardly ever saw him again. I knew better than to email the CEO, but I did misdirect a lot of questions and probably annoyed a lot of people.
    2. Harper the Other One* July 22, 2025 at 7:25 am

       +1 to this! My onboarding process at my latest job included clear details about, here’s who you contact for payroll problems, here’s who you contact for IT issues, etc. but prior to that – even as an experienced employee – I’ve definitely had to send a few of those flailing “I know you’re probably not to right person but I have no idea who is” emails!
       1. londonedit* July 22, 2025 at 8:33 am

          Yeah, definitely. In any new job I’ve had to ask, and I’ve had to do those ‘If you’re not the right person to ask about this, please let me know and point me in the right direction, and I’ll remember in future!’ emails. I’m guessing part of what the OP is noticing (the ‘arrogance’) is maybe coming from the fact that the new hires don’t know that politeness dictates that you do that little bit of social wheel-greasing (rather than just ‘Hey I’m new and I need this thing, can you get back to me’ or whatever).

          And I’ve definitely seen it from the other side, too – where I work our system only really allows for one editorial name to go against each book, so that person is often assumed to ‘own’ the whole project. Editorial and Production know that I’m not the person to ask about the contract or the royalty statements or the marketing, but people in other departments who don’t interact with the editorial team very often will periodically send me emails saying things like ‘Hi, I need to contact X author about Y thing, you’re the editor on the system, do you know about this’ and then I have to say no, I didn’t work on that book so you need to contact my boss, or you’ll need to ask the Contracts team, or whatever it is. Is it mildly annoying? Yes, but I understand why it happens. If there was a whole group of people doing it on a regular basis, it would be much more annoying, and I’d definitely want to see if something could be done so that the Marketing interns all know that it’s not me who deals with ordering proof copies, it’s Production, or whatever.
    3. Rogue Slime Mold* July 22, 2025 at 8:26 am

       I also wonder if it’s concentrated in one department, where “Ask your peers or manager” has completely failed the new hires.
    4. Rei Ayanami* July 22, 2025 at 10:21 am

       I just came here to say this same thing. Who are the managers of these people? They should be accountable if their direct reports aren’t following a process.
29. Michigander* July 22, 2025 at 5:19 am

    LW2: They laid you off without considering that you perform a vital function, and now they have to deal with the consequences. The one advantage of not working there anymore is that this is no longer your problem to solve. Flat out refuse and let them figure it out.
30. JustKnope* July 22, 2025 at 5:35 am

    LW #2, make sure you save documentation of all the times you say no to your old company. Screenshot texts, print and PDF emails, etc. Cover your own butt in case they try to do something fishy later on.
31. March* July 22, 2025 at 5:42 am

    LW#3 – if you have or can find loose-fitting, thin-material pants (worn over, and I speak from the most personal of experience, long-legged underpants or similar to avoid chub rub), those will be infinitely more comfortable in the heat than jeans. They will billow around your legs with every step, creating a little fan effect; they won’t hold in any body heat and they won’t create the wetsuit effect that jeans do.
    1. Harper* July 22, 2025 at 8:55 am

       Agreed. There is nothing hotter than sitting around in jeans. It sucks that we can’t wear dressy, long shorts to offices that are casual enough that jeans and T-shirts are acceptable.
       1. fhqwhgads* July 22, 2025 at 12:06 pm

          There’s a reason hikers say “denim is death”.
    2. londonedit* July 22, 2025 at 9:00 am

       Yep. In the recent hot weather we had here in the UK I even found it too hot to wear denim shorts. Denim is just such a warm fabric! There’s no way I would have worn jeans. I struggle to find lightweight trousers to fit me but I do have some wide-leg linen ones and they’re lovely and cool. Or I stick to lightweight cotton/linen dresses (with, as you say, chub rub shorts underneath – Snag do excellent ones). You want something lightweight and billowy in a natural fabric for warm weather.
       1. Aerin* July 22, 2025 at 4:15 pm

          Natural fabric is important! I recently bought some pants that looked lovely and flowy and cool online and I got them and they are pretty much just solid plastic. And another time I got a top for a costume and even though it looked gauzy, the fabric was so solid I ended up cutting vents in the inner arm. Make sure it can breathe!
    3. Indolent Libertine* July 22, 2025 at 9:47 am

       I live in one of the most temperate areas of the US west coast, so I’m accustomed to wearing jeans pretty much year round at home, but I’ve discovered over the years while traveling to hotter and more humid areas with my spouse for his work that I am infinitely more comfortable in skirts and dresses when the mercury really rises. A close second is linen or seersucker pants. Jeans are just too heavy and closely woven and they hold body heat in. Of course, this doesn’t address the difficulty that larger-bodied folks have in finding clothes that work, but as someone who doesn’t really have to think about changing wardrobe for the season most of the time, I was really surprised how much of a difference it made to swap the jeans for a lightweight skirt or dress (or lightweight flowy pants).
    4. The Prettiest Curse* July 22, 2025 at 5:02 pm

       When it’s as hot and humid as it has been in the UK recently, I won’t wear anything other than linen or linen blends. Wide leg linen trousers are your best bet for staying cool in a warm office. If you overheat easily, do not wear jeans if it’s above 70 degrees. Linen does wrinkle, but if you’re buying linen blended with other fabrics (for less wrinkling) it may not be as cool, so go for something that has at least 50% linen if you can.
32. DE* July 22, 2025 at 5:55 am

    I know the VP of my company (hundreds of employees) because he used to be a manager in my office. He knows my husband (he used to work at the same company, but left a few years ago). he stopped by my cube last week and asked about my husband, and we chatted for a minute. I STILL would never email him unless it was absolutely necessary!
33. Account* July 22, 2025 at 6:07 am

    #3
    Have you been checked medically? 78° is, as Alison said, uncomfortably warm to many people. However, it is not hot enough that most people would be unable to function, or have to take the day off. If you google “heat intolerance” you’ll get a list of possibilities, starting with hyperthyroidism and dysautonomia.
34. Irish Teacher.* July 22, 2025 at 6:13 am

    LW1, I think most (or at least) many people enter the workforce with little or no understanding of the hierarchy there or who it is appropriate to ask what. This can go either way – either they don’t dare ask things they should be asking or like your colleagues, they ask stuff they shouldn’t.

    We all had to learn. I think I erred more the other way, being too deferential, being afraid to ask for clarification in case I looked stupid, etc. Which can be a bigger problem because it meant that if I didn’t fully understand an instruction, I took an educated guess.

    A lot of this stuff seems obvious once you’ve been in the workforce for a few years or decades but it really isn’t when you are starting out. Plus, it varies from field to field and even from workplace to workplace and while those of us who have been in the workforce for a while are used to the norms of our field, new graduates tend to be use either to the norms of education or the norms of part-time minimum wage work which can differ greatly from professional or office jobs.

    I don’t think it’s a generational thing so much as a new-entry thing. It may be that you are more noticing those who err on the side of being too brash because those who err on the side of being too timid don’t draw attention to themselves or it may be related to who enters your profession. There are, for example, studies that show that private schools and schools in more middle class areas are more likely to encourage students to speak up, go to the principal with a petition to change the rules, it shows initiative, the worst they can do is say no, and so long as you’re polite, they’ll respect your intiative, whereas schools in areas that have a high number of underprivileged people are more likely to teach them to sit quietly and not rock the boat (there are a whole load of reasons for this, from prejudice on the part of teachers who assume the latter group of schools will have more students who misbehave so they don’t trust them to an understanding on the teachers’ part that the latter group of students are less likely to get the benefit of the doubt if they overstep outside the school grounds to parental expectations of what they want their kids to learn based on what works in their workplaces. That’s just an example – gender, local culture, the type of people who enter the profession (like if it’s one that requires a lot of confidence, it may attract people who are more likely to err on the side of overstepping when unsure) could all play a part too.

    Or it could be just comparing those who are loudest to yourself when you were early career and not noticing the missteps of others back then the way you do now.
    1. londonedit* July 22, 2025 at 8:21 am

       I agree, and I think it’s definitely more of a new-to-work thing than a generational thing (I’m an ancient Millennial and we definitely didn’t arrive in the workplace knowing everything there was to know – and we didn’t even have a ton of online info and decent search engines to look things up with!)

       I wonder whether there’s something going on like the new hires are given a brief introduction to the company and the ‘important’ people, but there isn’t an organisational chart (or if there is, it’s out of date or it isn’t explained properly)? So if there’s a problem with their laptop, they think oh IT is Wakeen Templeton, but actually Wakeen is Head of IT and has nothing to do with everyday issues. Or they have a question about payroll and they email the HR Director about it because they don’t understand how HR works, or whatever. I can imagine that their thought process might be ‘I need help with IT, so logically the person I’m going to contact for that is the most important person on the IT team, because they’re in charge and they can sort it out’. Without understanding the nuance that the Head of IT doesn’t get involved with people’s everyday IT issues because there’s a tech team for that. Some more detailed explanation of the hierarchy and a list of who to contact in the first instance might help.
35. BigLawEx* July 22, 2025 at 6:15 am

    LW#1 – Generationally speaking, I wonder if this comes from a social media world where you can DM – literally – anyone, and the emphasis on ‘flat’ organizations and CEOs who insist they’re available to anyone, like Bezos did in the early Amazon days. I’m guessing your onboarding may want to include some procedures about hierarchy.
36. Becky S* July 22, 2025 at 6:24 am

    #3 – in addition to managing the temperature, make sure you are properly hydrated with electrolytes. Something like Gatorade is ok, even better is the hydration drops and powders sold in camping supply stores. We sweat out salts and minerals, replacing that with plain water throws off our electrolyte balance..
    I know we aren’t supposed to give medical advice here, so at the very least — check with your doctor. Dehydration and an electrolyte imbalance affects us adversely and can bring us down quickly.
    1. Whoop* July 22, 2025 at 6:47 am

       I second this. I live somewhere that gets very humid in the summer, so there’s regularly days that hit 85F+ and 70%+ humidity, and yet the number of adults that I talk to who don’t realize they need to be replenishing their electrolytes is astonishing. They’ll mention getting overheated and sweaty and how they drank 3 bottles of water quickly, and the part of me that comes from three generations of medical professionals is internally screaming. (I’m part of my company’s quick response team, for when someone appears to experience a medical event at work, which is why I’m so aware of how many heat related complaints there are.)

       I was able to convince my work to stock up on some of the cheaper electrolyte power mix-ins last year, and the number of heat incidents has gone down by quite a lot through a combination of those, better curtains on the wall-to-ceiling windows, and the building owners allowing desk fans. Moving air and salt replenishment help so, so much.
       1. Bird names* July 22, 2025 at 7:52 am

          Thanks for the practical advice. That sounds like something more employers could stand to adopt.
       2. Silver Robin* July 22, 2025 at 8:24 am

          I was helping organize water distribution during the heatwaves in late June/early July and the first thing I said was that we should be giving out rehydration salts along with.

          Peace Corps provides those in their med kits, which is how I learned about them. Those, and condoms, are the most commonly replaced item.
    2. Dinwar* July 22, 2025 at 8:34 am

       I know someone in the Southeast that got hospitalized because they didn’t replace their electrolytes. They drank water all day, like they were told to, but were trying to eat healthy, which meant low-sodium. When the dehydration symptoms continue despite drinking enough water to drown a fish, there’s a problem. They woke up in a hospital hooked up to an IV, and the doctor explained that they basically flushed all their electrolytes out of their system.

       Our policy is a 2:1 water/sports drink mix–for every two ounces of water, one ounce of Gateraid or something similar. Or eat foods that replace electrolytes–pickles, salty snacks, and the like. Most people get enough from their diet, but “most” is not “all”!
       1. Lady Lessa* July 22, 2025 at 10:45 am

          Being a weird person, I tend to cool down with dilute pickle juice (or pickle puree) after each workout.
          1. Sillysaurus* July 22, 2025 at 8:25 pm

             Not weird! Pickle juice is a very common item to have at the aid stations of trail races, especially in the heat.
    3. Aerin* July 22, 2025 at 4:18 pm

       There’s a brand called Buoy that makes flavorless drops. They’re a little pricey but they offer a discount to people with chronic illness. Absolute lifesaver, it’s really helped clear up my headaches too.

       There are also those places where you can basically buy a saline infusion. I went that route when I realized that I was severely dehydrated and needed to jumpstart the process of fixing it. (They sell a bunch of extra nutrients and add-ins and stuff, which I skipped. Just the salts please!)
37. Yes And* July 22, 2025 at 6:33 am

    LW2: There has to be a way in the government system to set up a new contact. I’ve dealt with several city, state and federal reporting systems, and there always is. It can be difficult to find and navigate, but it has to be there; the government knows that people leave jobs. They just need you to go in there once and set up a new contact. They should offer to pay you to do so. If they haven’t suggested it, you should. I encourage you to make your rate as obscene as you can imagine, and then double it.
38. From One Hot Girl to Another* July 22, 2025 at 7:17 am

    LW3: echoing everything Alison said, but as someone very sensitive to heat (who has worked as a technician on several humid NY summers’ worth of outdoor theater at this point) I also have some tips for handling it while long term adjustments go through management channels:
    -ice pack to the back of the neck cools your body temp way faster than forehead (your manager was on to something there). Other areas that cool fast: armpits. trust me.
    -stay hydrated! more than you think! even more than that! if you aren’t needing the toilet at least once every 1-2 hrs you’re doing it wrong. some electrolyte mixes like LiquidIV help absorption but only in moderation; you still need to drink actual water.
    -frozen grapes make a great snack
    -cooling towels are amazing; keep one on hand for quick relief as well
39. Bebe Ruth* July 22, 2025 at 7:28 am

    #5. Team placement, at least at my company, is truly random. I thought it may be experience, or lack thereof, or what some managers want, but we just fill chairs. It could be alphabetical, last name of new hire in a list matched with team openings. I’ve been setting up new hires with their network credentials for 7 years.
40. KnittingattheBallpark* July 22, 2025 at 7:41 am

    #3: OSHA doesn’t have requirements for temperature. But, they do require employers to provide a safe working environment. If you are made ill by your working conditions, that’s an OSHA violation, it’s called the general duty clause.
    A heat illness caused by the working conditions of your office may need to be recorded on your employers OSHA logs, and may need to be reported at the end of the year. Please visit your employers occupational health or HR to let them know that you have heat illness.
    1. Boof* July 22, 2025 at 7:59 am

       OSHA doesn’t “require” specific temperatures but they do /recommend/ a range of range of 68-76°F, and 80F starts to trigger heat stress requirements.
       https://www.osha.gov/node/57113
       So 79F is pretty darn close
41. Morgan* July 22, 2025 at 7:45 am

    #2 is comical. So LW2 has a unique (within the company) skill/resource that the business relies on to function and cannot easily/quickly replace? There’s a very simple and time-tested way to handle that problem: employ LW2. Corollary: if you sack someone, you surrender any claim to their time, knowledge, or resources, regardless of how badly you need them.

    The guilt trip companies attempt in these situations is a perverse simultaneous admission that a) you are invaluable to them, but b) they absolutely will not actually value you in any concrete way.
    1. Seven If You Count Bad John* July 22, 2025 at 11:13 am

       This is the part that got me!! “Gee whiz, maybe you shouldn’t have LAID ME OFF, then, eh?!”

       I would be so tempted to rat them out to the relevant government agency!
       1. I Have RBF* July 22, 2025 at 1:39 pm

          I believe the proper response to them is “Fuck you, pay me!”

          To use the login, the LW has to be employed by them. The only recourse the company has is to literally pay the LW to perform that service of filing with the government. If no money is exchanged, then they aren’t an employee, and the company can’t use their login.

          Instead of paying a consulting rate to have the LW do the filing, they want to commit fraud with the LW’s permission. Hard pass, IMO.
          1. Mabby* July 23, 2025 at 2:24 am

             Depending on what it is, OP may need to be an employee to validly use their credentials.
42. Former Fed* July 22, 2025 at 7:54 am

    LW2: Former federal govt attorney here. Keep it short and sweet along the lines of what Alison said. This should definitely be a hard no. And then feel free to ignore anything else they send or get a lawyer if they threaten you.
43. Tom R* July 22, 2025 at 7:57 am

    LW1: Alison’s response is the one I would have provided. WHen I was new to the workforce I emailed our department head (this was a government department of 5000+ employees) for a quick email approval on something and got all sorts of heck from his staff because I as an entry level grunt had no right to email him and I quickly learned my lesson. I think that it’s likely just a training issue

    LW2: No, non, ne, Nein. DO NOT sign anything, do not agree to anything like this. In the FAFO process your old company is in the FO stage and they will absolutely throw you under the bus and if they do it will have legal consequences for you
44. ursula* July 22, 2025 at 7:57 am

    OP3 – As another fat person, I just want to validate how much the “they might blame this on my weight / I might inadvertently be drawing attention to my weight” dynamic of this sucks. I overheat more quickly than most people and this is a very familiar feeling to me.

    You still deserve safe and healthy working conditions. You deserve the same level of basic comfort as everybody else. Plus, this is not just an inconvenience – heatstroke is not a trivial thing! You’re absolutely right to bring this up with your boss and look for solutions/accommodations. If working conditions in our office had gotten this bad for one of my direct reports, I would damn sure want to hear about it. I hope you and your boss find a way to improve the situation!
    1. Someone Online* July 22, 2025 at 8:33 am

       Yes, it doesn’t matter what you weigh or what might cause or be behind your weight – you deserve a comfortable working environment.
    2. Worldwalker* July 22, 2025 at 9:26 am

       Heatstroke is a life-threatening emergency that calls for immediate transportation and hospital care. As they taught us in EMT class, it’s as serious as a heart attack.

       If this is happening in an office, there’s something VERY wrong there.
45. duinath* July 22, 2025 at 7:59 am

    i do think a workplace that had an employee suffer heatstroke at work should be doing something to cool the place down.

    for what you can do, yourself, there are tips that might make you more comfortable. start from the outside; you want clothes that breathe and don’t cling. flowy lighter colored linen is king, but other materials can also help if they are light and loose.

    the suggestion of ice for your back actually makes sense, for shifting your core temperature you want to focus on the core of your body, once that cools it will make your limbs and head feel better as well. so the small of your back, your belly, your groin (…between your upper thighs. for the office your back really is the least conspicuous spot), these are places with a lot of heat and blood happening under the surface.

    there are suggestions here for ice vests etc, and if you want to do that i sure won’t argue, but what i do in uncomfortable heat is drink cool beverages. iced is best. a lot of people don’t drink enough in the heat, so you’re hitting two birds with that one.

    eat salt. this will help you hold on to the many liquids you drink. keeping salted peanuts in your desk is an easy way of doing this, as an example. i tend to go for fries and chips, personally.
    1. Mabby* July 23, 2025 at 2:27 am

       I’d not start eating more salt without checking with a doctor first. The average American (and quite a few other nationalities) already eats far more salt than is recommended. Water retention can cause health issues.
46. what color are my kitchen tiles* July 22, 2025 at 8:06 am

    #2: speaking as someone from the government side of this sort of system, if you remember any point of contact name/email, please email them and let them know this is happening. They can flag it and get the account on the government side turned off, or at least let people know that of anything comes in from this account with your signature, it’s your former company committing fraud.
    1. ursula* July 22, 2025 at 8:53 am

       honestly i was thinking this too.
    2. Lurker* July 22, 2025 at 9:25 am

       This right here. You do not want your name tied to this company after your termination date.
47. Justin* July 22, 2025 at 8:07 am

    I did the email wrong people for help thing in my first office job and my colleague told me, yeah, don’t bother her (higher up) with things like that. And I learned.

    It might be slightly exacerbated from the pandemic but they’ll figure it out if gently corrected. And the ones who don’t will have a harder time…. which is also true of previous cohorts.
48. Amy* July 22, 2025 at 8:10 am

    I’m an elder millennial who started with a new company this month. The on-boarding has been quite light on the details I need to do my job and I’ve absolutely been reaching out to various teams directly.

    I’ve been surprised at how few colleagues and even my manager seem to know the official process on many items. My first few conversations with two colleagues and a manager went like this:

    Me: What product code in SFDC do I use when creating a customer quote after I previously created a sample?
    Them: Hmmm maybe try “sales?” No “quotes”? Hmm that’s not right. Let me ask John what he uses. Maybe “orange?” (No, not orange.)

    IT has been giving me the answer immediately and in a way that instills confidence rather than a game of nebulous telephone. I want to learn processes correctly from the jump. Not in a garbled way.

    I agree younger employees are showing some judgement issues if they are reaching out to the CEO on a minor issue. However, if the information isn’t documented elsewhere and in a way that’s easily searchable, I’d look to your processes over the employees.
    1. Purple stapler* July 22, 2025 at 9:21 am

       Regardless of how light on info the onboarding is for LW# 1’s company, I’m trying to imagine the mindset that tells you emailing the CEO for routine info is OK. I just don’t get it.
       1. Amy* July 22, 2025 at 9:39 am

          For companies who embrace a flatter approach to hierarchy with lots of Slacking, emojis and DMing, I can see how it happens. Many companies are moving in that direction.
          1. Parakeet* July 22, 2025 at 1:54 pm

             It also depends somewhat on company/organization size. They shouldn’t email the CEO for routine info regardless, but whether it’s, say, a 50-person company, a 500-person company, or a 5000+ person company, makes a difference in just how off they are.
       2. EmF* July 22, 2025 at 6:22 pm

          When I was onboarded to my (large, multinational) company, various bigwigs dropped in to our entry-level job’s training group for fifteen minutes and talked about how we were all friends and colleagues here, all striving for the same goal of bla bla bla.

          If I’d been brand-new to the workforce, I’d have taken them at their word.
49. Fried pickles* July 22, 2025 at 8:11 am

    LW4: do not look at the hiring managers’ schedule again. You will make yourself crazy. In my recent experience, the hiring manager is not in charge of how the process plays out – it’s the HR person scheduling the interviews that has the most power. And if they don’t listen to your preferences, you can end up with all kinds of weird things going on. Ask me how I know, lol.
50. Dinwar* July 22, 2025 at 8:20 am

    “Because this happened to me in another office when I was 15 years younger, I know that OSHA doesn’t have regulations for high temperatures in offices, only low temperatures…”

    15 years is a long time. OSHA has moved towards focusing on physiological monitoring for heat stress, precisely because people respond to heat differently. Acclimation, level of physical activity, level of physical fitness, diet, clothing type; the number of variables that impact one’s ability to handle heat is substantial. Usually the trigger to start monitoring is 80 degrees F, but clear signs of heat stress are also a trigger–and someone pulling ice packs out of their lunch to regulate their temperature is a pretty clear sign!

    Even if OSHA doesn’t directly regulate it, heat stroke is a recordable (requires medical attention beyond first aid). NO ONE wants that. And they absolutely would liable for it.

    It’s also worth noting that heat stroke kills. Your employer, by refusing to acknowledge clear signs of heat stress, is putting your life on the line. That’s not a good job, I don’t care what the benefits are.

    As for how to keep cool, as others have said, cool/cold water and salt (I prefer pretzels) help maintain your temperature. If you drink sports drinks it’s a 2:1 ratio water to sports drinks. Eat things that contain water as well–pickles have water and salt, melons are basically water, a lot of other fruits are as well, cucumbers are good for this too. If you use ice, put it on pressure points. The back of the neck is okay, the front (with the carotid artery and jugular vein) is better. The armpits and groin (femoral artery) are good too. But the best thing to do is to not get that stressed.
    1. Silver Robin* July 22, 2025 at 8:28 am

       there is a reason that the renn faire near me has pickle stands everywhere! They even give away the brine for free. So many folks in elaborate, layered, polyester costumes and we live in a humid climate…
       1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy* July 22, 2025 at 8:55 am

          Yep, a lot of folks don’t realize that but that’s exactly why ren faires are chockablock with pickle vendors. It’s not just for the suggestive commentary. I’ve even heard a pickle vendor shouting them as “nature’s Gatorade!”
51. JP* July 22, 2025 at 8:27 am

    Here just giving support to LW3. I’m in the mid Atlantic area of the US and this summer has been difficult for me. I’m on a couple medications that also have heat intolerance as a side effect, so that’s been an additional challenge. I have some outdoor training for volunteer work in a couple weeks and I’m so nervous that the organizers will think I’m frail and pull me from the program.
52. Wednesday wishes* July 22, 2025 at 8:34 am

    LW2- could you possibly turn this need into a consulting contract with the company that laid you off, and do this task for them? For a very premium hourly rate, of course.
    1. Observer* July 22, 2025 at 12:15 pm

       No. I know it’s a nice fantasy, but these people are going to find a way to mess the LW over in a big way.

       At this point, they need to say no, document that they have been asked and said no, and let the government agency know that they are no longer employed by the company.
       1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow* July 22, 2025 at 2:35 pm

          I agree. This company is trying to commit fraud, so getting involved with them again could land the OP in serious legal problems.
          Scary though is it to be unemployed, it is too risky to accept a consultancy from them, or to accept even a better job with them.
53. it's too hot to work today* July 22, 2025 at 8:34 am

    LW2: Can you alert your former employer about it so they can delete your sign-in? Keep saying no to the request but document everything in the case fraud happens. This person is in a sense trying to use you.
54. Nep* July 22, 2025 at 8:38 am

    LW3: Even if OSHA has no regulations, this is likely to be something (especially if there are future, worse incidents) that can be covered under Workers’ Compensation. I don’t know your state, I don’t know your laws, I am not a lawyer. However, it is a medical incident that happened because you were at work with conditions that were only met because you were at that workplace.

    If you end up seeking medical attention for heat stroke because there’s no AC, that is definitely the point where I’d be putting in an application for WC.
    1. Worldwalker* July 22, 2025 at 9:31 am

       Note: The victim is not going to be seeking medical attention for heat stroke; they’re unconscious and waiting for the ambulance.
55. heat illness* July 22, 2025 at 8:42 am

    LW#3, I would suggest being clear in communicating with your employer about the situation — it sounds like you potentially had heat exhaustion rather thank heatstroke. Heat exhaustion causes heat cramps, weak and rapid pulse, and dizziness, and it can be self-treated. Heatstroke includes things like delirium/altered mental state and potential organ damage, and it requires treatment in a hospital. Saying you had heatstroke might make your employer think you’re exaggerating to try to get a fix for what they consider a minor problem.
56. timeisacircle* July 22, 2025 at 8:50 am

    Yes, Gen Zers lost some developmental time during covid. The bigger influence however is the virtual environment that permeates today’s culture. This is a bigger shift that most of us are willing to acknowledge. It’s not a “blip” it is a fundamental transformation in how people perceive work and integrate into work norms that were based on a production and hierarchy mindset. When you can “friend” the CEO of most companies on social media, of course you think you can transfer that kind of relationship into the real work environment. I don’t think it’s about “integrating” new workers into an old paradigm. The paradigm will also have to change.
57. Harper* July 22, 2025 at 8:52 am

    LW3 – this makes me angry for you. I am mid-size and have been larger in the past, and regardless, I run hot. I would be miserable and constantly irritable/angry if I had to sit in a 78 degree office all day. Is it possible to work from home during the summer months? Surely your company would prefer this over you suffering heat stroke at work.

    I bought a remote-control fan that I put under my desk aimed up at my body. When I get hot, I just click it on using the remote (no bending over or climbing under the desk), and it gives me full-body cooling without blowing my hair into my face or drying out my eyes. It has truly been a game changer, and I can easily turn it off and on as many times as I need to throughout the day.
58. Tradd* July 22, 2025 at 8:53 am

    #3 – a fellow plus sized woman that has always run hot and is now in menopause, how I cope with being hot at work:
    *Loose cropped pants and a loose shirt. NEVER truck your shirt in
    *Turbo fan at my feet, angled upward (I still work with paper files so a desk fan isn’t practical for me, I tried)
    *Cold beverage(s) of choice. Besides water with electrolyte mix-ins, sometimes an ice cold Coke really hits the spot and cools me down
    *Go sit in your car at lunch with the ac blasting. Bonus points if you have a car with remote start and you can pre-cool down the car.
59. Czhorat* July 22, 2025 at 8:56 am

    Letter 1 is my least favorite kind of thing: generation wars. Multiple things are always true:

    1) Younger people are new to the workforce and don’t know the unwritten/unspoken rules. This is normal.

    2) Norms change. Society has gotten flatter, and people feel more equal with those of higher titles and more experience. This may be good.

    3) Individuals do not represent their entire generation; a problem with three people doesn’t mean “kids these days” don’t know what’s what.

    For #2, I think of things like office dress expectations which have *sharply* changed in my years in this industry, from “you wear a suit for a meeting with a client or architect” to “you wear a tie but maybe not a jacket” to “if you’re wearing a tie they’ll think you’re on your way to an interview” to today’s “if you wear a tie they’ll think you’re on your way to a wedding or a funeral”

    I still don’t think asking the CEO how to reset your email password is at all appropriate, but that’s a matter of practicality and learning the ropes rather than any gross violation of hierarchy. Millenials are mid-career now. In another decade or two they’ll be in the majority of senior positions and GenZ will be mid-career. It’s not our world anymore – it’s theirs.
    1. Trillian* July 22, 2025 at 1:02 pm

       And they’ll be complaining about the clueless youths, who’ll be griping about the out of touch olds. It’s nature’s karma.
60. Czhorat* July 22, 2025 at 8:58 am

    For #2, LW and Allison are 1000% right. Security 101 is that you *NEVER* give your credentials to *ANYONE* for any reason; someone logged in as you *is* you so far as the system and anyone conducting an audit can tell. By sharing a login you create a situation in which nobody can tell who is actually accessing a system and anything done wrong will be your responsibility.
61. EastCoast* July 22, 2025 at 9:07 am

    LW2: You should check to see that your former employer is not already doing this without your consent.
    1. General von Klinkerhoffen* July 22, 2025 at 9:38 am

       This is precisely why LW2 needs a paper trail (can be electronic) showing that they have not authorised such use, and objected to it once made aware.
62. Geranium Now* July 22, 2025 at 9:07 am

    #2 – I can picture the scene at the company. The higher-ups decide they need to cut costs and so do a sweeping layoff of tons of people with zero regard to what those people actually do. Their lack of preparedness in figuring out how to run their business isn’t OP’s problem. They should have thought about that before they did layoffs the way they did them. The response at this point can be silence, because “lololol nope” feels unprofessional.
    1. sofar* July 22, 2025 at 10:30 am

       Exactly this. I’ve seen it time and time again where access and ongoing projects were NOT thought out before laying off, and leadership just figured “the remaining employees will handle it.” One of the companies I worked for laid off a single-point-of-failure. She was told to leave that same day, no chance to transition. That person stopped answering the company’s texts the moment she left the building (good on her) I checked her Instagram and saw she had embarked on an off-grid dream trip within days of being laid off. Watching the panic ensue was epic to behold.

       A transition plan or even just having a backup person trained in those aspects of her role (she’d been asking for another head for years) would have prevented all this, but god forbid a company think more than 2 seconds ahead.
       1. Trillian* July 22, 2025 at 1:03 pm

          Good for her. That’s the way to do it.
       2. JustaTech* July 22, 2025 at 2:36 pm

          I had a friend who was a very early employee of a startup. It went along and went along, never making it big but never failing and eventually got to be an untenable work situation for my friend. Like, move to another country untenable.
          But her work ethic was still there so she repeated alerted the founder that several business-essential services were on her personal credit cards (reimbursed, but still) and those would be canceled when she moved away, and he *really* needed to transfer this and that and the other thing to other people and other cards.

          He did not, and then when everything stopped working had a complete melt down. Tried to call. Except oops! She’d moved to another country and gotten a new phone!

          I was amazed at the audacity of this guy to just assume that someone would just keep doing all this work for his company when they had been so abundantly clear “I am quitting. I am moving away. I will not do anything for you.”
          1. sofar* July 22, 2025 at 4:57 pm

             OMG when companies have employees putting company expenses/subscriptions on their personal card you know it’s gonna be a s*** show when they leave/get laid off. Same goes for having the 2-factor identification for logins going to someone’s personal phone. Always a good time when the company realizes THAT, a week after someone gets let go.
63. HannahS* July 22, 2025 at 9:18 am

    LW 3 (and for other readers) I’m a bit confused–heat exhaustion and heat stroke are different things (linked below.)

    https://health.clevelandclinic.org/heat-exhaustion-vs-heat-stroke

    If you are getting full-on heat stroke, you need to seek medical attention, and will probably have to arrange medical accommodations to either work from home or otherwise have a cooler environment, because heat stroke is a risk to your life.

    Heat exhaustion is still bad, though. I’m prone to heat exhaustion myself, and I agree with suggestions like wearing lighter, more breathable clothes, staying hydrated, and having a powerful fan. But actually, in your shoes I’d talk to my manager about lowering the temperature.

    It’s awful and so unfair that you might face discrimination because of your body, but if you continue to be absent as a result of heat illness, you’ll have to talk to your manager anyway (and it’s uncomfortable and dangerous to you in the meantime!) It’s better if you can seize control of the conversation about it. You know and I know that people of all body sizes can be intolerant of heat/humidity. When you speak to your manager, is there something else you could explicitly attribute it to? Like, “You know Carol, since I moved back from Alaska I find I can’t tolerate heat like I used to–I actually got heat exhaustion the other day and had to be absent. Is there a way that we could….” or “I’ve always been someone who struggles in the heat–I actually got heatstroke at work about 15 years ago. I don’t know if it’s because it’s especially humid this year…”
64. Lurker* July 22, 2025 at 9:24 am

    #2, I would notify the government agency that the company made this request as they are attempting to commit fraud and I do not want to be blamed for anything they do. What if they get access to your password and use it against your wishes?
65. Nancy* July 22, 2025 at 9:27 am

    LW3: what you are experiencing may be heat exhaustion. It is not heat stroke. Heat stroke is an emergency condition and people either need to call 911 or be driven to the hospital for treatment.

    Regardless, if heat exhaustion is keeping you from working, that is an issue that needs to be discussed. Ask the department in charge of temperature regulation (our is called something like environmental services) to check the temperature and humidity in your office, and ask for adjustments. I’m very heat sensitive and have asked for the office temp to be turned down a couple degrees before.
66. Juli K.* July 22, 2025 at 9:32 am

    LW2 – good for you! This is an insane way for the company to handle it.

    I’m in HR and yes, management screws up and eliminates jobs of people that they actually need immediately on occasion. And we solve it by trying to hire them back for a period of time. And we up their severance and all the things we can to entice them to help us in an emergency of our own making. And if they say no, we figure out something else.

    Truly ridiculous ask from your former employer.
67. GenX Middle Manager* July 22, 2025 at 9:38 am

    LW1: With two kids in college, I joined the Facebook groups for “Parents of the Class of XYZ” and … the same thing was all over them. Those groups were full of parents asking, on behalf of their kids, questions that … they should have just asked their roommate, their neighbor, their RA, the front desk staff. Or that they should have checked the very well designed university web page for. No, instead they asked their moms to ask a group of 50 year old women who live hundreds of miles away.

    “How do we log onto the campus wifi?”
    “Where do we check out course reserves?”
    “What’s my mailing address to get packages?”
    “When does the cafeteria start serving on Sunday morning?”
    “What’s the procedure for pep band tryouts?”

    All of these easily answered by real people right around you or the “Welcome new students” handouts and section on the school web page.

    It’s like … their worlds are full of SO MANY sources of information that they literally cannot even figure out how to get the information they need, so they ask “the teacher” or “mom.” Maybe its overload, maybe its lack of rewards for curiosity and exploration in a gamified universe? But I have seen this myself in students in the college town where I work, and I think its a culture change that is going to need to be addressed in onboarding, honestly.
    1. JadedAmber* July 22, 2025 at 9:58 am

       As a Gen X mom of a college graduate and a rising freshman, and as someone who manages mainly entry level professionals (plus interns every summer), this subject has been on my mind for years!
       In my research, I read theories about how the lack of unstructured environments for kids (the way older generations grew up) has led to deterioration of social skills and ability to solve simple problems in younger generations. For example, if a Gen X kid wanted to play some soccer, they’d potentially need to negotiate with parents to let them go outside (in return for some chores possibly), walk around the neighborhood getting other kids to agree to play, negotiate who’s playing on which team – all of which makes one practice the kind of interpersonal skills that we take for granted.
       When a younger millennial/gen Z kid wanted to play soccer, they’d tell mom, who would sign them up for a league, buy the equipment, and drive them to and from practices and games. Their social group would be pre-fabbed, no real conflict resolution or social negotiation or problem solving skills needed.
       That has much more far-reaching consequences than anyone realized at the time.
    2. londonedit* July 22, 2025 at 10:03 am

       OK, so this does actually answer the question of ‘why do people always assume it’s a “kids these days” thing’. Because what you’ve described is so completely alien to me as someone who went to university 25 years ago! There wasn’t even Facebook, let alone any way for our PARENTS to interact with each other. Our parents!! I can’t even begin to imagine. Why would the parents of college students need or want a Facebook group?? Their children are adults! I do think this is part of why there seems to be such a huge generational divide sometimes – when I was 18 I didn’t have a mobile phone and the only internet access I had was in the uni computer room. If I needed information about something to do with uni then I had to find it out myself – and to do that I first of all had to find out where to go for the answers. I wouldn’t have even considered asking my parents.

       But I guess nowadays parents are part of class WhatsApp groups from the minute their child starts at preschool, and those are full of ‘Is it PE tomorrow? Has anyone heard about this charity cake sale thing? Does anyone know which book they’re meant to be reading this week?’ and so on. So I can imagine that parents these days are used to feeling totally invested and connected with every detail of their child’s education, and there are people who even want to continue that when their ‘child’ is at college.
       1. BigLawEx* July 22, 2025 at 1:39 pm

          Oh, I’ve been added to these groups and…never check them. While I adored the parents and community when my kid was little, I don’t really want to chit chat about school dances or gossip or whatever on WhatsApp with other 50s folks. I hear I’m not a joiner…and that’s okay. I’m the last to know anything. Hopefully my kid doesn’t suffer.
       2. JustaTech* July 22, 2025 at 2:42 pm

          My parents were part of an email group for Parents of the Class of ’05 (so this was 2001) when I was a freshman. It was almost all questions like “does anyone know a local optometrist? ” or “how does my insurance work on the other side of the country?” – This was a long time ago and google wasn’t the thing it is now.

          The emails were also “how to I deal with my sweet baby suddenly being an adult?” – sort of support group stuff for the parents.

          And also some helicopter stuff about things like “are they spraying for West Nile?!?!?” (my mom sent that one to me, and it was from the mom of a guy I knew – I replied with “there are screens on the windows and the engineering students don’t have time to go outside long enough for a mosquito to find them.”)
          1. londonedit* July 23, 2025 at 3:55 am

             Maybe it’s because in England we are all largely 18 when we start uni, but there definitely weren’t email lists for parents when I started uni. I can well believe there might be Facebook groups etc now, but even so, I’d be quite surprised. Certainly when I went to uni it was very much ‘you’re an adult now, you get on with it’.
    3. Hyaline* July 22, 2025 at 10:10 am

       I do think some of this is due to a lot of spoon feeding up until (and sometimes even through) college, to where young adults don’t know the proper way to find info. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve asked a question in my freshman courses about a term or a reference in a recent reading and been met with blank stares…and have to remind them “you have the literal world at your fingertips. Did none of you Google?” Curiosity and its adjacent risks are absolutely dis-incentivized by most of their schooling, and the expectation that you’ll just be told what to do and should fill in the blanks according to the format provided is very normal.

       Honestly, asking anyone any question at all is an improvement on most of my new college students, whose strategy seems to be “hope I’m just told exactly what to do and how to do it because I’m terrified of asking a question.”
       1. GenX Middle Manager* July 22, 2025 at 10:48 am

          they don’t google. they don’t check the university website. One of these schools had one of the best websites I’ve seen – and I’ve been part of website design for knowledge translation and dissemination projects for twenty years.

          They don’t even think to look there. They don’t google, either natural language or boolean strings. They ask strangers in Facebook groups. And its not just the kids, its the parents. For someone like me who started building a website for my campus library in 1995, its absolutely alien to me that they wouldn’t at least search for it. As someone who considers Wikipedia link surfing a competitive sport, I … just do not get it.

          When I stop myself from just asking “WTF?” I remind myself that there is a very human tendency to put trust in other human beings’ experience and opinions, such that some people automatically turn to those as a first resort.

          Now they’re asking ChatGPT instead. And so are their moms, so the Facebook Moms group from that school is now full of “I asked ChatGPT what do do about your problem with your child’s health, and IT said…” (Insert terrifying answer).
          1. Worldwalker* July 22, 2025 at 12:51 pm

             Regarding Wikipedia link surfing as a competitive sport:

             Wikiwalking: You start with two unrelated words — say, “lions” and “Paris” — and follow links (body only, not references, etc.) from one to the other. Backing up is not allowed. The one who goes from one to the other with the fewest number of links wins. My result for “lions” and “Paris” was 3, but I strongly suspect there might be a path with only 2 links.
       2. Lexi Vipond* July 22, 2025 at 11:07 am

          We generally do tell them exactly what do and who to contact, and it often seems as if they go out of their way to do something different.

          And I do realise that that can’t be their experience of what they’re doing, but I still find it very difficult to imagine any situation where it’s not more difficult to look up some random other person’s contact details than to use the ones in the exact thing you’re reading to get the information you want to ask about.

          (We generally talk about it as if it was a kind of unversity-borne disease, though, rather than generational – the academics are about as bad some days.)
       3. Pay no attention...* July 22, 2025 at 11:58 am

          You could be right that they are used to being spoon fed the info, but what I notice is more of the “crowd sourcing” tendencies of the generation most raised on social media and wikis. I think there is even a bit of backlash on google searches because of paid sponsored results and AI answers. Google has in some ways ruined their own reputation as a trusted source. So the generation that is used to asking their friends or “friends” now thinks that’s the way to find honest information and applies it to real life.
       4. JustaTech* July 22, 2025 at 3:44 pm

          This is true, but again, I wouldn’t say it’s exclusive to Gen Z (cavate: I don’t know very many Gen Z people) – I’ve had Gen X bosses who I had to train to try Google before asking me – and they were trained researchers!

          Regularly when I talk with fellow alumni from my undergrad folks will say the most valuable thing they learned in college was *how to learn* – including looking things up. And that holds true across a couple of generations (X, M, Z).

          So while I am sure that this is exacerbated by youth and the Internet and COVID, it’s not an exclusive problem.
          (I know several teachers who will put the blame firmly on No Child Left Behind and George W Bush.)
    4. Elbe* July 22, 2025 at 10:27 am

       I find this genuinely concerning.

       The concerns that I’ve heard about Gen Z seem different than the standard generational complaints. So many of these patterns of behavior don’t seem to be linked to inexperience, but rather a lack of understanding about how human beings function in a society.

       When I joined the workforce, there was a pretty wide range of professionalism and understanding among new hires. Some people were fairly prepared, some weren’t. But I don’t know anyone who would have emailed the CEO a question. I don’t know anyone who would have asked their parent a question that they clearly wouldn’t have the ability to answer, such as cafeteria times. It’s worse than a lack of problem solving – it seems like they don’t even have a good grasp on other people’s perspective.
    5. HannahS* July 22, 2025 at 11:17 am

       It’s pretty interesting to me that so often, this is framed as “kids these days…” but I read that and wonder–what went on in Gen X that they parented in this way? It seems like the people on this group have trained their children to ask them for everything. Obviously, then, the 18-year old’s first instinct will be to ask their parents, if their parents have spent the last 18 years teaching them that they can’t possibly figure it out themselves. And their folks on this group SHOULD be coaching their kids (“Have you looked it up, why not call IT, could you ask the RA”) because they, like you, know that their kids can use Google…but they aren’t doing that. I don’t have the answer–I’m a Millenial parenting Gen Alpha, which has different challenges, and I’m sure that we will also mess things up in our own special way.

       But I remember all the “participation trophies” garbage that was levelled at Millenials, and at a certain point I started to think, whose decision was it that we were too fragile to handle failure? Who ordered the trophies?
       1. GenX Middle Manager* July 22, 2025 at 12:17 pm

          I remember saying that exact thing to someone: “The Little League kids aren’t the ones buying and printing the participation trophies, folks.” I don’t know if anyone is even doing research into why people parented that way, vs. the results of having been parented that way. I do know that there was increasing parental peer pressure as my kids got older, though. And as more people went for the high-control parenting options, there were literally fewer options for *not* doing it. You couldn’t send your kid out to find people to play soccer with because the other kids were all in league soccer.

          My older kids call themselves “Geriatric Zoomers.” Both of them had to wait until high school for a smartphone and we had to entertain them with coloring books at restaurants rather than iPads. I know there’s a lot of “But people complain about EVERY generation,” but older Zoomers themselves are looking backwards at the kids behind them and saying “OMG, those kids can’t even …”
          1. Worldwalker* July 22, 2025 at 1:01 pm

             I remember when there was a big brouhaha about youth soccer leagues not keeping score in the state where I lived at the time. But it wasn’t because the kids couldn’t handle losing a soccer game (guaranteed, every kid on either team could tell you exactly what the score was) — it was because the parents couldn’t handle their kids losing a game. Some of them abused their children, others of them abused other parents, and still others took it out on officials or coaches. There were brawls. There were arrests. After a youth hockey game, the father of one player beat another to death.

             Indeed, the kids didn’t raise themselves. They didn’t buy the participation trophies. They didn’t make the rules.
    6. Strive to Excel* July 22, 2025 at 12:10 pm

       I credit it to information overload. It’s not that they’re incapable of searching it themselves – it’s that for every single thing you do, you need to sift the information out of something. It gets exhausting after a while.

       I’m amazed by the chutzpah displayed in emailing random people, my problem is that I’ll often put in way too much work finding the information myself rather than asking someone who knows. But it doesn’t surprise me.
       1. Worldwalker* July 22, 2025 at 1:02 pm

          But the same information overload affects everyone. Not everyone does this.
          1. Trillian* July 22, 2025 at 1:09 pm

             And people develop different strategies. “Going to the Top” is one (though I suspect parental influence there). Going to peers. Going to one’s own set of links and curated resources.
68. Worldwalker* July 22, 2025 at 9:41 am

    #3: Bring in a cheap little hygrometer (“good enough” ones can be found for under $10) and find out what the humidity is at your desk. If it’s too high (over 60%) — and I’m betting it is—that might be easier to address than the temperature. Humans have very good cooling systems if the humidity is low enough for them to function properly. Surface to volume ratio can affect that, of course.
69. hiptobesquare* July 22, 2025 at 9:43 am

    #1 – It may be worth mentioning to whomever is in charge of onboarding that you’ve seen a lot of this and may be worth mentioning.
70. Worldwalker* July 22, 2025 at 9:49 am

    I’ve asked the heat stress SME of a large complex in the South about office heat issues. (he’s working from home today)

    ASHRAE — the American Society of Heating, Refrigerating, & Air-Conditioning* Engineers — makes recommendations. In Thermal & Environmental Conditions for Human Occupancy, ASHRAE Standard 55, at low humidity, their standard calls for 67-80; at high humidity, it’s 62-75. This is for people with a modest metabolic rate — mostly sitting, occasionally walking around. Variables involve air movement, humidity, metabolic rate (heat generated based on activity — a gym instructor is going to be a lot higher than an office worker) and clothing insulation values. Overall, their ranges are temperature 68-80 and relative humidity 35-65.

    *They consider “Air-Conditioning” to be one word for purposes of the acronym
71. r..* July 22, 2025 at 9:53 am

    LW2,

    I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice.

    That being said I would strongly recommend not signing that agreement.

    The conduct described could very well fall under criminal law, and here’s the thing: Risk of criminal liability is always directly, personal, and cannot be risk-shifted like civil liability can. You cannot sign an agreement where someone else goes to prison in your stead, and likewise you cannot agree to go to prison instead of someone else.

    Likewise, if something is a crime, you saying “it absolutely is not a crime” is not up to you, that’s up the court and/or possibly the wronged party. Which in this case would be the government, who as operator of the IT system gets to decide on access protocols, and it seems clear they want named individual users; neither you nor your former employer have any say in this.

    All any such document would mean is that *both* go to prison, one for the deed, and one for the conspiracy to commit the deed.

    Even if liability was civil, not criminal, any liability shift or risk idemnification is limited by the idemnifying party’s willingness and means to pay. If your former employer idemnifies you, and a civil damages are awarded against you, and your employer goes bankrupt (a very real possibility, considering the lack of orders), you still owe the moneys to the party that sued you! True, in this case you become an unsecured creditor to your former employer and could recoup whatever percentage of their claims is awarded to such creditors, but you’d still eat any difference.
    1. Contracts Killer* July 22, 2025 at 11:51 am

       I am a lawyer, and I agree with your assessment. My only addition is to suggest that LW2 respond to the employer in writing (text or email is fine) saying they DO NOT consent to it and save that text or email. Hopefully they’ll never need it, but it never hurts to CYA.

       If you have a contact at the government or if there’s a way through the online portal to close the account or notify someone that you are no longer in that position, I’d consider doing that, too.
72. Cat Lady in the Mountains* July 22, 2025 at 9:54 am

    LW1: Documented escalation processes that managers/trainers share and discuss with all new hires is the solution here.

    I’ve found this issue crops up frequently when managers/trainers are being super hands off in the initial onboarding period. It’s also not enough for the manager to just send an email with processes for folks — they get so much new information in their first few days, something disruptive like this really requires an actual conversation to make sure they read the email and understand the processes.

    Plus once you’ve got it in writing, whenever someone reaches out to you, you can re-send them the documented process and ask them to follow it.

    Really, this stuff is not intuitive to new-to-workforce or even new-to-company people. I’ve worked in places where what you describe would absolutely be the culture, and I’ve worked in places where it would be horrifying. Someone’s gotta tell new hires this stuff directly, and really that should be their manager or whoever is training them.
    1. Ann O'Nemity* July 22, 2025 at 10:53 am

       I’m not sure if this is a new problem or if I’m just noticing it more now, but I’m seeing managers increasingly stretched thin as companies flatten, an overreliance on self-service onboarding, and a lack of training for both managers and new employees. It’s no wonder new hires don’t know where to turn for help.
    2. Hannah Lee* July 23, 2025 at 4:59 pm

       One dynamic I’ve seen with younger/new to the workforce workers is that if their actual manager is in any way hands off, brusque or not inviting of questions in some way, they will try to get information from ANY other source rather than approaching their manager with a question. And sometimes they’ll do that even if their boss is on the approachable end of things.

       The seniority, standing, actual jobs of the other people they approach don’t seem to concern them … as long as they get what they need from someone without having to approach their boss, that’s a win. I don’t know if they just don’t want to look bad to their direct boss, or want to be seen as having the “gumption” of figuring it out themselves (at least as far as the boss is concerned) or whatever, but it’s a thing.

       And also, onboarding and training have both gotten thinned out over the past few decades IME, so that makes it even worse.
73. Lizard Lady* July 22, 2025 at 9:58 am

    LW 3- You mentioned that this has happened before. If you get heat stroke once, it increases the likelihood of it happening again. The mechanism is still hazy, but the body does not handle heat as well after that initial event. Aside from the cooling items mentioned above, I would also research whether this would be grounds for other accommodations… namely increased AC.
74. Hyaline* July 22, 2025 at 10:05 am

    LW3, given that you fell victim to heat illness while at a sedentary job at 78 degrees, this may be worth mentioning to your doctor (in a way it wouldn’t be if you were running sprints at 95 degrees!). Heat intolerance is real, and it can be a symptom of underlying conditions or of not tolerating certain medications well. It can also just be your body (I have a friend who just plain cannot handle any amount of heat, no underlying reason found) but it’s worth checking to be sure. I know this can be hard to do, especially if you haven’t found a doctor you trust and communicate well with, given your concerns about weight discrimination, but keep it in mind to bring up! In addition to possibly addressing an underlying cause, it would also give you more grounds for asking for accommodations–this isn’t a question or comfort or a one-off incident, you may have a legit medical condition with a name. “I have diagnosed heat intolerance, I cannot work in these conditions; this is what my doctor recommends.”
    1. JP* July 22, 2025 at 10:52 am

       I’m on an SSRI and a beta blocker that both contribute to heat intolerance. I feel so self conscious when I’m on the subway red faced and sweating and everyone else looks totally normal.
    2. Worldwalker* July 22, 2025 at 11:26 am

       To be fair, weight does factor into it. It’s the surface to volume ratio — the reason why Siberian tigers, for example, are much larger than Sumatran tigers. That’s just physics, not discrimination. I’m not saying discrimination doesn’t exist — it absolutely does — but big things lose heat slower than small things, whether they’re ice cubes or tigers or people.
       1. Pescadero* July 22, 2025 at 1:42 pm

          Yep… Bergmann’s Rule.
75. Baby I’m a Want You* July 22, 2025 at 10:07 am

    I don’t know the answer but we have to stop this Gen Z before it goes too far. Emailing the CEO?? What’s next, saying hello to a board member in the hallway?
76. Crencestre* July 22, 2025 at 10:09 am

    The new definition of chutzpah is a company that fires the only employee able to provide a vital service and then attempts to finagle them into committing fraud for that company’s convenience. Oh, and that’s the definition of total shortsightedness as well!

    But seriously, OP2, send that company an email stating that you will NOT agree to their use of your credentials after you leave. And you might want to consult with a lawyer who specializes in employment law to ensure that you are covered if/when that employer tries to get around your refusal and manages to log in under your name.

    Oh, and be glad that you won’t be working for them anymore. If they’re willing to commit fraud like this then you can be sure they’re being dishonest in other ways as well!
77. Ed's girlfriend* July 22, 2025 at 10:29 am

    Iwas rather shocked a couple of weeks ago to read a post from Southern Living magazine recommending the ac inside the home should be set to 78 when tou are there and HIGHER when no one is home. So, higher temps seem to be a thing now. AC systems are designed to lower temps by only a certain number of degrees (20 Fahrenheit, perhaps) and it temps are running higher than they were designed for, they can’t keep up, so it may not be possible to lower it more.

    On the practical side – if the OP is female and over 35, could this be menopause or peri-menopause related? Heat will trigger a hot-flash often. If so, maybe this calls for an ADA accommodation of work from home, at least in the hotter part of the day. Also might just try wearing a loose skirt, rather than jeans. and hike it up to the thighs behind your desk. You’d still look professional when you stood up. (And if not female, could you get away with a kilt??)
    1. Anon tonight* July 22, 2025 at 1:33 pm

       that’s been an energy saving setting for a long time. When you have an HVAC system as in a typical American household, the humidity is controlled as a byproduct.
       1. I Have RBF* July 22, 2025 at 2:03 pm

          LOL. HVAC systems are not in most of the homes I’ve lived in here. It’s usually heating only, ventilation is windows and fans, and A/C is after market window units. Whole house HVAC is only a thing in houses built in the last 20 years or so.
          1. JustaTech* July 22, 2025 at 5:58 pm

             I think it might be regional. I grew up in the Mid-Atlantic in a house that was built in the mid 1970’s and it had whole house ducted heating and A/C.
             When I moved to New England in the late 90’s was my first experience with window A/C units.
             My new construction house in the PWN in the mid-00’s didn’t have A/C either, but my next house did.
    2. fhqwhgads* July 22, 2025 at 1:46 pm

       All the recs for AC set to 78 are usually in the context of saving electricity/not straining the grid/decreases your electric bill.
    3. I Have RBF* July 22, 2025 at 2:00 pm

       Yeah, this thing with setting the thermostat to 78° F is for the birds. I am heat intolerant, and my brain starts flaking out at 77° F. My house is a Victorian, and the only A/C we have is small windows A/C. If I set one to 74°, the room will be 77°. If I set it to 78° F, I might as well not turn it on at all for all the good it will do. Even where I live in California the heat is getting wetter, so the humidity is a problem.
78. Former Retail Lifer* July 22, 2025 at 10:29 am

    #3: If your office won’t help, I’d invest in an ionic fan for your desk and a cooling towel. While it’s ridiculous that you’d have to do this in an office, they’re both good options for the heat. I manage two buildings and one does not have an office, so if I need to do any work while there, I’m stuck in an unairconditioned maintenance storage room. I have both in there and they do really help.
79. Former Retail Lifer* July 22, 2025 at 10:31 am

    #2: Please report your old company to whatever governing board or agency would monitor something like this. They might wind up finding a way to do this without your permission, in which case you have to ensure their intentions have been documented.
80. Nancy* July 22, 2025 at 10:38 am

    LW: This is not a Gen Z issue, this is a ‘new to the workplace and don’t know where to go for answers’ issue. Someone has failed to give them a list of contact info and explain who they should go to for information. New people, regardless of generation, do not intuitively know every person two days after they start, so yes, they’ll eventually just pick someone who seems responsive and ask them.
81. CubeFarmer* July 22, 2025 at 10:39 am

    Oooh, if ever I wanted an update, it would be about the indemnification email.
    1. Box of Rain* July 22, 2025 at 11:23 am

       YES! Seconding the request for an update on that one.
82. Sevenrider* July 22, 2025 at 10:50 am

    LW3 – I am in your same situation so I got a desktop air conditioner. It looks like a small box fan and blows cool air around my area. I have used it for years and no one has ever commented or asked about it. I think everyone just thinks its a fan. I also have a cool wrap for my neck, looks like a bandana and my hair is longer so it’s pretty well hidden.
    1. Worldwalker* July 22, 2025 at 11:38 am

       Is that an air conditioner or an evaporative cooler (aka swamp cooler)? An actual AC would require an air vent to the outside. I have a nice little evaporative cooler, but that works best in low humidity.

       Note regarding desktop evaporative coolers: Despite the claims of their advertising, they don’t refrigerate a room in minutes. What they can cool is about a cubic meter of air … like, y’know, the cubic meter that your upper body is in. You can get one at Walmart for about $20, and they’re great.

       You can also get much, much bigger ones. My favorite local garden center has one that’s the whole long wall of their greenhouse, which is how they can have a greenhouse in the South. They arrange their plants by temperature and humidity requirements — the ferns are right next to the cooling wall, while the cacti are on the far side.

       Random evaporative cooler saga: Decades ago, I was driving from CA to MA in a non-air-conditioned car with a family (2 adults, 3 or 4 pups) of Siberian hamsters (Phodopus sungorus) which are, as you might guess, not very temperature tolerant. They’re build for cold, not heat — even their tiny noses are fuzzy! I hadn’t thought of this before I set out. So I rigged up a little swamp cooler with a T-shirt, the hammies’ water bottle rigged to drip on it, and a 12v powered fan. This kept the lil’ guys’ cage cool across the Mojave desert, and everyone got to MA safely.
       1. JustaTech* July 22, 2025 at 6:01 pm

          Interestingly, swamp coolers are also how the giant data centers that power places like Google and Facebook are cooled (in the US).
          It seems counter-intuitive, given that water and computers don’t mix, but it seems to work well (aside from the water usage).
83. Humidity is the worst.* July 22, 2025 at 10:59 am

    LW3 – if you have longer hair, a trick I use is to style it while very wet, so it stays wet all day and helps keep me cool, while still looking professional. If you google ‘wet hair low bun’ you’ll find some options. Sorry you’re going through this.
84. Lilo* July 22, 2025 at 10:59 am

    LW2: I’d also recommend you change your password for that credential ASAP. I have a speaking suspicion they may be actively using it.
    1. Beth* July 22, 2025 at 11:26 am

       YES, THIS.
       1. Purple stapler* July 22, 2025 at 11:32 am

          The OP may not have access to that system any longer since she is no longer at this job.
    2. Burnt Out Librarian* July 22, 2025 at 1:46 pm

       That’s my suspicion too. If you can’t change the password, OP, (and even if you can) be sure to keep electronic and hard copies of these e-mails documenting that they knew this wasn’t legal to do and were trying to convince you to let them continue to use it. It may never come up again but if they get caught and you get subpoenaed, it will be helpful to have this exchange documented.
85. hmmm* July 22, 2025 at 11:02 am

    OP#2 Probably a bit snarky to say (and obvious) but I would point out they chose to lay you off. Lack of their planning / knowing your job does not constitute an emergency on your part. They know the procedure to get their own credentials and they should work on it. You no longer work for the company, not your problem. Let’s face it, if something did happen, do you really think a company, that fired you, that is trying to get you to do something illegal is going to have your back?
86. Keymaster of Gozer (She/Her)* July 22, 2025 at 11:06 am

    3. I’m massively intolerant to heat – because of 1) several medications that stop me sweating and 2) having had heat stroke in my past. Anything above 21c is heading into trouble.

    (Recent over 30c weather in the UK has had me quite sick – we do NOT have AC and it’s humid as heck)

    I used to work in central London, in a building where the windows didn’t open and one summer it climbed to a temperature where I ended up having a seizure. When I recovered I basically told my boss and HR that I was going to have to work from home during hot weather because there was no way to cool down in the office. Fans just blew hot muggy air at your face and the ventilation system was from the 1970s.

    And yeah, there was some ‘if you weren’t obese you wouldn’t have this issue’ talk from some people but I didn’t respond to it, merely stated that again, I could not cool down. Since they couldn’t install a modern AC system and I couldn’t work a day without passing out/having a seizure they okayed me working from home when the temperatures were too high for me.

    Ultimately though I left that job, partly because it was really unpleasant working in London (no shade against anyone who loves cities, I just need open fields and minimal people) so I’d also suggest looking to see what’s out there.
87. MaryWinchester1967* July 22, 2025 at 11:11 am

    LW1: I’ve worked support for my company’s ERP, and the behavior described is not new. It’s amazing how people will share your name with others if you are knowledgeable and responsive. I would sometimes get oddball questions that had nothing to do with the ERP. I’d simply help the person find the correct group or direct the person to the main help desk.

    Ideally onboarding for a new employee would include giving that employee information for contacting the help desk and/or the support team for the ERP. I have seen some wacky situations, though. Also I’ve seen even seasoned employees get confused about who they should contact for some problems. There are far too many support teams, each with different email addresses for submitting tickets.
88. Box of Rain* July 22, 2025 at 11:22 am

    OP #1 reminded me of the rule used when coaching and teaching high school students–“Ask three before me.” Because usually a teammate or other student knows the answer. I should start using it at work, too! Ha!
89. AthenaC* July 22, 2025 at 11:30 am

    #1 – How many CEO’s say “my door is always open,” encouraging people to reach out? Those of us with experience / cynicism know they don’t really mean it but I blame that in combination with COVID stealing key development years from teens (now young adults).

    In any case, I think the advice is the same – don’t assume people don’t know what they are not explicitly told, so add this one to the list of things to make sure entry level professionals are told.
    1. Worldwalker* July 22, 2025 at 11:41 am

       “My door is always open” usually means it’s open to discuss issues at the company that your manager won’t respond to, not to ask where the spare paperclips are kept.
       1. AthenaC* July 22, 2025 at 1:01 pm

          That’s exactly my point. You know that, and I know that, but from their collective behavior it seems clear that the entry level people don’t know that.
90. K* July 22, 2025 at 11:38 am

    #3 There are portable AC units that are the similar size of a large fan, space heater, etc. and just plug in no install required. This may be an option to suggest if they can’t/won’t change the temp for the entire building. When you speak to them it’s good to have some solutions to suggest, so this is just one idea to keep in mind.
    1. Worldwalker* July 22, 2025 at 11:43 am

       Those are evaporative coolers, though, and they require low humidity to work properly. They’re great at what they do, but it sounds like LW3’s office has high humidity, so they wouldn’t work efficiently.
91. laura* July 22, 2025 at 11:41 am

    I don’t see this but #2 sounds like they are looking to violate the False Claims Act – https://www.justice.gov/civil/false-claims-act

    Another good reference point with regards to any/all of their outreach.
92. Angela Zeigler* July 22, 2025 at 11:45 am

    OP3: If you haven’t already, get a giant insulated cup of some kind, fill it with ice cubes and water, and be sure to drink lots of water all day. Also be sure you’re eating and going to the restroom regularly- a lot of people neglect this and end up with heatstroke or symptoms because it’s easy to focus on the temperature.
93. Contracts Killer* July 22, 2025 at 11:48 am

    LW #1, I wonder if at least a small part of this is a combination of not understanding office norms and misinterpreting orientation chats. I could see the CEO saying something like, “My office is always open. Never hesitate to ask me for help!” and this being misinterpreted as literally asking them ANYTHING.
94. BethRA* July 22, 2025 at 11:55 am

    Reading #1 – can I just say that as an elder Gen X’er, I am really enjoying watching Millenials enter their “kids these days!” years.

    I remember when we were the ones everyone said had been raised by wolves/didn’t know anything/were doing it wrong/what was wrong with us?, etc. Whenever I catch myself stereotyping a generation, I try to step back and remember how that felt, and think about ways to be the manager or colleague or mentor I would have wanted then.
95. NobodyHasTimeForThis* July 22, 2025 at 12:11 pm

    #3 I’ve survived 3 summers where facilities decide it is time to do work on our HVAC and take it out of service for all of August.

    If you have access to a freezer, stock up on the icepacks for coolers that get colder than regular ice and last longer. Preferably hard shell. Put something that will hold the icepack up in front of your fan. I used an upside-down wire mail tray so there was lots of airflow. Each pack would blow cool air on me for 2-3 hours before pooping out and that was with in-office temps around 85
96. Mrs. Malaprop* July 22, 2025 at 12:31 pm

    I implore LW1 to also consider the company’s processes and whether they’re working. Is the help desk able to efficiently provide support? Do employees know who to contact and how? It might be that the Gen Z folks just aren’t willing to put up with long waits or haven’t been around long enough to know who handles what kind of problem. I think Alison’s advice is solid here, but don’t assume you know the full scope of the issue without further investigation.
97. Burnt Out Librarian* July 22, 2025 at 1:37 pm

    #1 – My supervisor does this to me. My husband recently had a really involved and complicated medical situation involving a scheduled-then-delayed major surgery and I was stuck in another part of the state for nearly a month with him. I was still on PTO and she was messaging me about the location of items at our POW and information from an Excel sheet I’d already shared with her *while my husband was undergoing a 6 hour surgery.* She’s younger than I am and I do think this is a generational and work culture issue– especially not respecting another person’s time (including time off).

    Agreeing with Alison’s approach here. I’m hoping to address this with my own supervisor during the annual review process. I’m not sure when some folks missed the whole “make an effort to figure it out yourself before you pester others to do your job for you” part of being a grown-up, but if it wasn’t 2020, it was certainly at some point.
98. Illogical Spock* July 22, 2025 at 2:33 pm

    LW1 – I used to use this at my school for the chronic “Reply All” people but this might work for random emailers as well. Basically I would email a picture to the Chronicle Replay Allers with some sort of quip so I wouldn’t seem like a complete AH. The picture was made using PPT. It showed three circles inside each other (think a bullseye). It was labeled “ Reply All Email Steps – Start from the outside and work your way in”. The Outer Ring said – Ask someone on your team or hall. Middle Ring said – Ask your grade level. Inner Ring said – No answers after an hour, email the school.
    I often got a short “OK, thanks” and sometimes it even worked.
99. Salty Caramel* July 22, 2025 at 3:32 pm

    Why weren’t the new hires told who they should ask for help? While I think it’s wild that they would contact the CEO, they should have some direction.

    and the person/people the new hires are directed to should actually be helpful. I once had a coworker tell me that they were too busy to help me because they were doing their own work so they could get promoted out of the department.
100. LW2 OP* July 22, 2025 at 3:43 pm

     Hi all – OP/LW for Letter 2 here! Thank you so much for all your thoughtful comments and to Alison for your advice. An update on this situation:

     I did not reply to any of the multiple texts sent to me in followup regarding the indemnification; I did reply to the document sent to me via email and cc’d the company’s head of legal. I plainly refused to sign, said I do not consent to the use of my credentials, and that this was my final decision. I received a reply that they hoped for a different outcome but respect my position given the use of my name and dob in login credentials, and wished me well. I also was able to get the gov agency to completely remove the company and client associations from my credentials, so even if they can log in they shouldn’t be able to do or access anything.

     My main hope now is that they leave me alone as I continue on my job search. Luckily, I have some great contacts from my time at the company who had left before me, which helps assuage my worries about burning bridges so early in my career.
     1. LookAtMeI'mTheManagerNow* July 22, 2025 at 7:34 pm

        I’m really glad to read this!
     2. Rick Tq* July 22, 2025 at 9:34 pm

        Not allowing your former employer to commit fraud by continuing to use your account isn’t burning a bridge, or even singeing the handrails.

        Anyone who tries to trash you later complaining That Meanie wouldn’t let the company break the law by using her federal account is just exposing themselves as a lunatic.
        1. Observer* July 23, 2025 at 12:06 am

           Exactly this.

           You’re fine. But they are nuts.

           If the actual log in is still active, change the password. And if you can put 2 Factor authentication – the kind that uses an app or a hardware dongle – put that on the account as well.

           And save all of the texts and your email chain.

           Hopefully this will all be unnecessary. But having it and not needing it is better than needing it and not having it.
     3. Burnt Out Librarian* July 23, 2025 at 9:32 am

        This is a great update to get. You did everything right here, they were clearly in the wrong. Surprised they admitted to wanting another outcome even with their head of legal involved. Yeesh.
     4. Hannah Lee* July 23, 2025 at 5:08 pm

        That’s really good to hear OP!

        Best of luck in your job search.
101. Spicy Tuna* July 22, 2025 at 3:58 pm

     I run cold and I’m comfortable at 76 – 78F. I spent 25 years freezing in office environments. I live in a year round hot climate and took public transport to work, which meant I would dress for comfort for the commute and then bundle up at work. I would have to take frequent breaks to leave the building and warm up (any building; it doesn’t seem to matter, every office was like the arctic for me). I would wear a winter pom pom hat, gloves, a scarf and a coat in the office.

     Where does OP #2 work, and can we switch jobs?!
     1. LingNerd* July 22, 2025 at 4:48 pm

        I’m the same! Except I live in a place with pretty harsh winters. On super cold days I can’t feel my toes for 8 hours. If I wear thick socks and slippers I’ll just barely maintain sensation. My fingers get really stiff too, which makes it hard to do computer work. I think I start to notice it’s a little warm at around 78, and don’t feel like it’s getting uncomfortable until it’s about 80. If I’m just sitting there at my desk (so, sedentary) I’m pretty sure I could tolerate a temperature up to 85 as long as there was air flow. I wouldn’t be particularly comfortable, but I’d be able to function.

        This is why, when asked if I’d rather be too cold or too hot, I always say too hot. The argument is “if you’re too cold you can put on more layers!” but there’s very much a limit to that for me, and my extremities will always be cold, and it’s difficult to go about my day with my hands bundled up and still stiff from cold. Meanwhile if it’s too hot, I just move slower and take breaks. The experience of being too cold is just worse than the experience of being too hot
        1. Burnt Out Librarian* July 23, 2025 at 10:16 am

           Putting on more layers doesn’t work for me anymore. Between a significant weight loss and some medication side-effects, my fingers and toes are ALWAYS cold, even in thick gloves and socks. I work in a place that keeps the temp around 68F but my office can get down to 65F. I wear sweaters during the summer and have a tiny contraband heater I keep hidden in a locked drawer when not actively using it. I drink a lot of tea. Honestly, the temperature is one of the contributing factors to wanting a work-from-home position next (the other being an “exempt” professional who gets watched like a hawk to adhere to a specific schedule and getting dinged out of every 15 minutes of PTO if I’m not chained to my desk all day, all for absolutely no logical reason– I’m not front-facing nor do I get calls or hourly deliverables, it’s pure micromanagement and power play).
102. The Rafters* July 22, 2025 at 4:03 pm

     LW 4, you are reading way too much into this. I am often asked to hold calendar slots for boss to meet with great, great grandboss. We don’t block the time on schedules, it’s kept in our heads or on paper until the date and time is final. It could also be as simple as not having a room available to use for in person interviews, etc, also very common in my building.
103. Too Hot to Trot, Best I Can Do is Shamble* July 22, 2025 at 4:13 pm

     As someone who overheats when it gets over 50% humidity and the low-mid 70s, I’d absolutely be sick along side you, #3. I have some thoughts and suggestions as a person who feels like keeling over in this hot and sticky weather.

     Firstly, sounds like that office is terribly hot and other people think so too. Dropping the temp/humidity will help everyone feel better, not to mention keep computers and printers functioning better too. Band together and speak up. You shouldn’t have to sweat it out or get sick for your job.

     Second, foreheads feel nice when they’re cold, but they won’t cool an overheating body down enough. What you need to do is aim for places like your groin, armpits, behind the knee, inner elbow, etc. If you have a freezer at work, put some ice packs in there. If not, get some instant ice packs — you pop one when you need it and it works for a couple of minutes.

     Third, if you don’t have a salt-restricted diet, having elecrolyte powder or beverage can help if you’re getting dizzy from the heat. If you do have salt restrictions, talk to a doctor about what level might be safe for you.

     Lastly, take it from me and avoid jeans if possible. I wear lightweight cotton, linen, rayon, etc. blends and flowy things exclusively in the summer. I also do a lot of tank tops or cap sleeves to better disperse body heat. I’d rather look casual than be a casualty of the heat.

     Guidance from Medline on heat emergencies — https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/000056.htm
104. LingNerd* July 22, 2025 at 4:32 pm

     LW3 This might be in the territory of medical accomodations, but even if not, your employer should care about one of their employees getting heat stroke at work. Even if they’re judgemental about your body size, they should realize that 1) they can’t tell you to lose weight because it’s none of their business, 2) even if they could and even if you did, it takes a very long time to do so, and you need solutions in the next few weeks, and 3) the cause could very well be something other than weight

     One possible solution would be to set you up in an office with a dehumidifier. This isn’t ideal because humidifiers work by adding heat to the room – ever noticed how a fridge kicks out a lot of heat? It’s literally the same technology, just set up in a way that helps pull water out of air through the power of condensation. So the air ends up drier, but also warmer. But if you’re in an extremely humid climate, there’s a chance it might help.

     If the windows allow it, you might be able to get a window AC unit installed. This would be better! But it’s doubtful they’d do this without a medical accommodation because they’d otherwise have to buy them for all the offices

     Probably the easiest is to work remotely if that’s possible for your job. It wouldn’t have to be every day, just on days where the dew point is above 70° or whatever level puts you at risk of becoming ill. You have a pretty strong argument in favor of this, because even if you don’t get sick from the heat, you probably aren’t getting anything done because of how uncomfortable you are
105. Churro* July 22, 2025 at 5:41 pm

     Is Gen Z new to social norms as well? Because Allison was extremely generous but that kind of cluelessness and entitlement are rightfully what the newer generations get constantly dinged for—and they don’t seem the least bit inclined to even try to learn.
106. PlainJane* July 22, 2025 at 6:09 pm

     LW1: There are always generational things. I’m GenX, and when we entered the workforce, we were considered “slackers” because we we’re in it for the passion and thought of work as, more or less, a place to make a living, rather than a personal identity. Millennials were too anxious, and now Zoomers are too pushy. I assume that Boomers get “flaky hippy” and Silents were too compliant…

     It’s all just a question of the transition from a school environment to a work environment, and all of us eventually find our stride. Sort of. ;p
107. 12345* July 22, 2025 at 8:54 pm

     Just to clarify heatstroke is a 911 style medical emergency where you start experiencing symptoms or organ disfunction and failure and is surprisingly lethal.

     Heat exhaustion or sickness is something completely different
108. Oreos* July 22, 2025 at 9:11 pm

     I’ll be honest, I think the LW is confusing heatstroke with heat exhaustion and that may hurt any case they bring to the company for adjusting the AC or otherwise rectifying things (yes the internal temp the company has selected is rather high, I’m not arguing that).

     Heat stroke is a maybe-call-911 medical emergency, and includes severe disorientation, cognitive trouble, no longer sweating because your body physically can’t do it, etc. You wouldn’t be sitting at your desk in front of a fan, juggling ice packs and stewing over the whole situation if you had heat stroke. You’d either be at the ER, or already dead.

     Heat exhaustion is a sucky can of worms* but isn’t at those “initiate emergency cooling protocols 5 minute ago!!!” levels. And it still shouldn’t be happening at a desk job. But the OP going in with their jeans on, all “y’all gave me heat STROKE!!!!” (And not any medical documentation at all, to boot) is not really going to help matters.

     *heat exhaustion can include dizziness, confusion, etc and could maybe warrant an ER trip (or checking in with your PCP by the next day) depending on the severity of it, the individual person, if they have underlying health issues, are very old, very young, etc. It’s no picnic, believe me. But confusing the two conditions could legit be fatal.
     1. Church Basement Lady* July 22, 2025 at 10:08 pm

        Yup. In general I don’t expect lay people to know this stuff. In OP’s case it would not be helpful to use the term heat stroke because that simply is not what happened and could be seen as being dramatic.

        BUT! It’s perfectly reasonable to want to be comfortable at work. Telling your boss “I feel really awful when it’s this hot. Can the temperature be lowered?” is a very fair request. Plus, get a fan, use a neck cooling towel, and if you’re really heat sensitive (which it sounds like OP is) get a cooling vest.
109. One HR Opinion* July 23, 2025 at 8:51 am

     LW 3 – I’m a little surprised that ADA was not mentioned. I don’t see how it couldn’t be a reasonable accommodation to lower the thermostat. You can try just bringing in a note from your doctor and then if that doesn’t work and if that doesn’t go to HR (if you have it) or to the responsible person in your company. As long as there are more than 15 employees, they are subject to ADA.
110. Serious Silly Putty* July 23, 2025 at 10:42 am

     OP 1- I’m an older millennial. I have two examples of overstepping the hierarchy at my first job:
     1. Someone in another department was being ridiculous. (Allison agrees! See “The Van” https://www.askamanager.org/2024/11/the-rolodex-hoarder-the-used-tea-bags-and-other-stories-of-territorial-behavior-at-work.html )
     I emailed their manager asking why Mr O was allowed to do something so ridiculous and disruptive. Manager barged into our area and declared, “I don’t have to answer to one of [My manager’s]… shlubs!”
     My manager was away so I had to fill in my grandboss on the feathers I had ruffled. She graciously explained that it would have been more appropriate to bring my concern up my chain of authority, so that somebody at peer level to this other manager could have discussed things with him. I appreciated this explanation. In hindsight, I now know how complicated it can be to manage someone who is older in a way that is respectful of their experience while still maintaining authority. The manager had bigger fish to fry than the van injustice, and was probably feeling stressed/insecure about things. He left within the year.

     2. The other was a few years later. As I dashed out to one of the above mentioned vans to do a program, an outrageously loud alarm sounded that had never been there before. Come to find out, someone had left that door propped open overnight, and the head of operations decided to fix that with an alarm that would sound when the door was open. Of note: (1) He did not tell anyone this. (2) The alarm could not be heard by security. (3) The alarm was on the door staff HAD to use to do programs. (4) If one didn’t like the alarm sounding every time they used the door, the best option would be to prop the door open.

     I emailed the building oops guy and pointed this out, also asking how much these alarms that definitely did not solve the problem cost. He emailed back offended that I was questioning his decisions. I have no regrets. He did something that was foolish, a waste of money, and incredibly disrespectful of the frontline staff, while he clearly didn’t think of as human beings worth consideration. However, I got a notification a few weeks later that his mom had died. Nobody makes the best decisions when they are stretched thin like he probably was.

     All that to say: I would never dream of just emailing someone high-up for an answer to a minor question, but it wasn’t obvious that I wasn’t entitled to talk directly to the person most directly related to the problem I was having. So I suspect OP’s situation is 1/3 easier access (pre-millennials, there wasn’t an easy way to contact people high above you), 1/3 general generation-transcending errors of inexperience, and 1/3 a generational shift in how hierarchy is conceptualized and acted upon.
111. Limepink* July 23, 2025 at 12:41 pm

     OP2: If you are comfortable, they can hire you as a contractor or taskforce employee (if you need to be a full employee regulations wise) who gets paid an EXORBITANT rate to only log in and file whatever paperwork this is. Make your lay off expensive. You work 5 hours a week for them and look for something else.

     That is if it makes sense you dont need to be on site more to review things, legalaties etc

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