how can I explain to my boss that my phone usage at work is for my to-do list and health tracking?

by Alison Green on August 20, 2025

A reader writes:

I am a clerk at a law firm. There is a customer service aspect to my job, but it’s potential clients calling our main line, or greeting clients for meetings. Nobody would be walking up to my desk unless they were staff or attorneys (no members of the public).

The other day, I got caught using my phone at my desk. This is something I have been talked to about before, and so have other staff.

My boss sent me an email saying that, again, I am not to use my phone at my desk unless it’s for IT verification purposes — which are quick. If I need to be on/check my phone for some emergency, I am to let her know. I responded to her email, saying I understood.

And I do. I might not agree with the policy or like it, but I will comply. I am, as far as I am aware, a good employee who gets requests and projects done in a timely fashion and is friendly and helpful. My phone usage is the only behavioral issue — i.e., not related to work mistakes — I’ve gotten talked to about in the year and a half I’ve been here.

I have a work focus set up so that it blocks most apps from my screen, silences most notifications, etc. And after I left work that day, I moved my messages app from its usual docked spot so I wouldn’t be tempted to check messages throughout the day (because docked apps show up no matter the focus).

I’m not denying phone usage, and I’m not saying I don’t occasionally text throughout the day. When my boss caught me, I was asking my mom if she had an update on a hospitalized friend.

But I do use my phone as a to-do list and I set reminders for things like when to set up for a specific meeting that day or when I need to do daily checks of kitchens. I also use it to track health aspects, like my water intake or food I’ve eaten (for figuring out possible food sensitivities). I can use my watch or desktop apps for some of this, but not all of it (like the food tracking is in a specific app, and I also don’t want my personal stuff on work devices).

I am also not comfortable telling my boss if I have an “emergency,” because I’m worried she’d veto the reason or think it’s not good enough or something like that.

But I do use my phone for reasons that are not texting or scrolling on social media, and I am wondering if I should have explained that. Or should I let this go and just input stuff in on my lunch break or after work?

Well, first, this sounds very micromanagery. If you get all your work done and do it well and don’t seem distracted, and there’s no issue of clients or others thinking they’re not getting your full attention, occasional texting shouldn’t be a big deal.

But apparently this is a thing in your office’s culture, and so you’ve got to work within that reality. If they don’t want you doing personal texting during the day, that’s their prerogative — and since this isn’t the first time they’ve warned you and others about it, it’s something you need to take seriously, regardless of whether or not they should enforce it so strictly.

But you’re absolutely right that personal phones get used in all kinds of other ways that don’t make sense to object to. So one option is to go back to your boss and say, “I want you to know that I’m taking the ban on using phones at our desk seriously, and I’ve silenced my notifications and taken other measures to ensure I’m not violating that. However, I use my phone as a to-do list and for reminders about meetings and to do my daily checks of the kitchens. I also use it to track some medical things, which I don’t want to have on work devices. Is there any flexibility for me to continue to use my phone that way, with the understanding that it would be confined specifically to those things and not used for anything like texting?”

It’s possible she’ll say no, either because she’s a micromanager who doesn’t trust the adults working for her to do their jobs well without excessive restrictions or because she knows it won’t fly in the culture more broadly (like if she doesn’t want to deal with questions from her own boss about why you’re using your phone at your desk). And if it’s no, then it’s no; in that case, yes, you’ll need to just do that stuff on a break or after work. But it’s reasonable to ask if you frame it that way.

You may also like:
{ 283 comments }

{ 283 comments… read them below }

  1. Prorata*

    Years ago, worked for a law firm. No personal electronics to be used at work.

    information security issues…..

    1. mouse*

      Currently working at a law firm and we have a very similar policy to OPs. Boss just does not like the idea of people taking any time away from client work at all for any reason. Information security I could understand but I wouldn’t be suprised if a lot of (smaller?) law firms have this kind of attitude.

      1. Cmdrshprd*

        Imo both are BS.
        I work at a big law and they are not this critical about phone use, not they big law is the end all be all, but they are certainly critical and have high expectations.

        But there want you to get your work done, there are better measures of productivity, billable hours and completing work tasks up to quality.

        If someone can get their hours in, submit quality work and be on their phone that is what matters.

        if someone was on their phone all day and not getting their hours in, or turning in crappy work product they might get talked to about using their phone, but otherwise they let adults be adults and manage their time/phone.

        This is just a bad/micro manager and/or law firm.

        1. Bast*

          This has been my experience as well. The firm I am currently in would only care about phone usage if your work wasn’t getting done. I *have* worked at micro managing firms where every little second of every non-working activity– including using the restroom– was monitored and complained about.

            1. Amanda*

              There are other issues at play here:
              – management of client data privacy
              – information being leaked to other law firms who have competing cases
              – prevention of client poaching by other firms
              There are organizations who don’t allow phone use for the above points.
              Op can also use her computer for managing her tasks; it doesn’t have to be her phone which would minimize the usage

              1. Dawn, higher ed*

                Not that this addresses OP’s issues, but if the context is such that people should not have access to personal cell phones for security reasons, then the company should not be using the personal cell phones of employees for authentication.

              2. NotAnotherManager!*

                Not allowing devices out at desks really does nothing to minimize these unless the organization also bans mobile access to firm systems and cloud access from computers. Since large law firms generally expect that you will have a mobile device to be accessible basically 24/7, your email/calendar/contacts, access to the DMS, etc. is all right there on the device to forward/accidentally use the wrong account to send/etc. at times when one is not sitting at one’s desk. And, unless the firm blocks access to outside cloud-based sites, you don’t need the phone to upload documents and screenshots to an external site.

                In all the years I worked in law firms, the only times I was required not use my phone at all were when I worked in a SCIF and when I went to a courthouse that banned electronics.

        2. Ellie*

          We’re not allowed phones at our desk for security purposes either. However, we have call forwards set up to go to our work computers, because if there’s an emergency with a child or an elderly parent, we need to know about it (childcare centres, in particular, will not continue to admit your child if you ignore more than one or two ‘come pick up your sick child’ messages). We also have an exemption for the small handful of people who have medical needs (diabetics, etc.)

          I suspect if OP wanted to push this with HR, they probably could. But it depends on how much capital you want to use. I personally wouldn’t be pushing it for things like tracking my water intake. But if there’s something more serious in play, then its worth having that conversation and insisting on a formal policy.

      2. Rosacolleti*

        Flexibility on personal phone use at work is very tricky to manage. What is scant use to some is appearing like an enormous distraction to others. Then you have to draw a line as to what is acceptable or not. We have no way of knowing the OP’s usage in terms of time but using it for work to do lists and reminders is a red flag – surely computers are supplied?

        I’ve had staff be on phones 40-50 minutes in an hour, denied it and the after checking usage admitted they had no idea it was that much.

        My advice to new starters or those too distracted is to have their phones out of reach, eg in their bag, and then maybe take a 5 min break every hour or so to check, update food apps or whatever. Sitting in an open plan area with a team mate constantly texting is terrible for morale.

        1. hiring director.*

          Totally agree with this. The OP has been spoken to twice about this. I wouldn’t expect the OP to drive this culture change, given their position in the organization. The reminders, timers, to do lists, etc – use your computer for that (I use mine for that all the time).
          The health related apps, how often do you need to be on those? logging what you eat – maybe 3 times a day? Do it over lunch.
          I’d be hesitant to push back on this. Dumb rule, sure. But it isn’t clear to me that the OP has political capital to push back on it.
          If I just coached someone on “don’t use your personal phone,” and they pushed back with all the other reasons they may use their phone as described above, I’d say “use your computer for the work related stuff, and use your lunch break for the rest.”

          1. WillowSunstar*

            Yes, I use Outlook for my to do lists and reminders. It really is pretty good that way. For younger people it may seem old school, but it was designed with that functionality in mind and can do the job.

            In past jobs where I was tracking my food and we had a no phones rule, what worked was carry a little notepad in my purse. Take it out and write the food, time, and amount on it. Then when it was my lunch break or I got home after work, type the data into my food tracking app at the time. Again yes, it seems old school, but when you are at a company that’s restrictive about phone use, sometimes you have to use workarounds.

          2. KateM*

            Yeah, it could work if OP could honestly say they don’t use their phone for nothing but. Right now it would sound like a lot of excuses to keep playing on their phone.

    2. JP*

      If that’s the case, it seems counterintuitive to also have OP using their personal phone for IT verification.

      1. H3llifIknow*

        Perhaps, but in reality issuing EVERYONE a work phone simply for obtaining a 6 digit code once a week or whatever is super overkill.

        1. I Have RBF*

          I have to do two factor so many times a day that it borders on the ridiculous. My company also requires password changes every 45 days, and a 16+ character password, and different ones for admin accounts, and, and, and… If it wasn’t for password managers I would be sunk.

          I wish they would give us YubiKeys. Much faster than looking up an app on a phone then typing a number.

          1. Raktajino*

            My work started offering YubiKeys when people started asking for a phone stipend to cover the app requirements. It’s such a simple solution.

            1. Ellie*

              We use YubiKeys too, because no mobile phones are allowed on premises. But it isn’t micromanaging in our case, it is pretty easy for someone to install recording and/or tracking software on a mobile phone without the owner knowing about it. There are legitimate security and privacy concerns.

              In OP’s case though, this really sounds like micromanaging. If they were concerned about security, they wouldn’t allow them in at all.

          2. Wayward Sun*

            I have a YubiKey and like it, but they’re only compatible with a pretty narrow range of systems. I use mine for my password manager, Gmail, and Paypal, and that’s about it. I’d like to use it for more, but nothing else supports it.

        2. LynnP*

          How is that the problem of the employees? You don’t want my phone out during the work day then it won’t be out.

          1. What_the_What*

            No, they don’t want you messing around on your phone. 2FA is expressly allowed. But ok, if you don’t want 2FA on your phone, set it up to go your work email or have a call to your landline. Both far more obnoxious but, what a strange hill to die on! It’s so weird to me that people are MAD they can’t play on their phones while AT WORK.

            1. LynnP*

              I teach children so my phone isn’t out during the day. If you want to contact me during class time there are several options available – classroom phone or physically walking yourself to my room.
              However, I’m not using my personal phone to authenticate whatever website the district wants to use either. We have classroom phones and district email but IT wanted us to know that it would be easier to set it up to text our cell phones. I don’t think it’s a strange hill to die on though because 2FA is completely for the benefit of the company and not the employee.

              1. Slovenly Braid Cultist*

                We use several services that need 2FA and some of them require a 2fa app- not just a text- to add insult to injury they require different ones, so I’ve got 2 different apps and no alternative.

                One of them keeps insisting it’d be easier to set it up with biometrics… I don’t know what I’ll do if/when that becomes mandatory, I’m strongly opposed to setting that up.

            2. Blue*

              Why so dismissive? The OP and others have given many examples of normal reasons someone might be on their phone for a few moments at a time that aren’t “playing,” whether communicating about an emergency, logging health information (which takes about 15-30 seconds) or using work reminders or calendar tools. And yes, a boss can say no to phone use for reasons like that, but just….why? What does it accomplish besides making the company seem out of touch and dampening morale? What’s the upside to ragging on people for 15 minutes of phone use spread out over 8 hours? I spend at least 2 minutes per hour staring into space – bc I’m not a machine.

              1. Shadow Cat*

                Obsessively tracking water using electronics is totally “playing on your phone”. Seriously, humans have lived on this earth millions of years without needing to input water drank into little electronic devices.

                1. Ellis Bell*

                  Yeah, I mean I’ve had jobs where there’s downtime for personal stuff like tracking, and others were it would be really frowned on, especially if it’s frequent and intermixed with the odd text. I would save it for break times in OP’s shoes, plus you can get water bottles with measurements on the sides.

                2. Lenora Rose*

                  By this strict a definition, literally anything that isn’t being locked in on your work is playing. Going to the bathroom becomes “playing” if you’re going to consider checking on people in hospital or affirming you drank water and stretched this hour are “playing”.

                  I sometimes have caught myself switching from “actually important use of phone” at my desk at work (focus tool, personal discussion that can’t wait like child care related stuff) to either scrolling social media or texting for fun and had to make a point of putting it away. This is because I recognize these are Different usages, and one is fine — and the other is not.

                3. PK*

                  I understand how this could seem unnecessary, but I’d like to mention that there is a medical issue called adipsia, where someone has decreased or absence of thirst. And additionally some people with developmental disabilities have difficulty with understanding the signals your body is giving you and taking action. Many people can get chronically dehydrated (many medications can exacerbate this) so having reminders and “gamifying” drinking water can be genuinely helpful. In the past, people with this issue would probably not have been in office jobs or they would just not have been in as good a health as they could have been.

              2. mbs001*

                I’m sorry, but it’s a little disingenuous to call monitoring your water intake health tracking.

                1. Lenora Rose*

                  Is there a reason for monitoring your water intake that *isn’t* directly linked to your health?

                1. It's Me*

                  *Their mother about a friend who is hospitalized. That’s vastly different from texting friends about weekend plans or a new show OP watched. Taking a quick moment to check on someone *in the hospital* isn’t an egregious faux pas.

            4. That Paralegal*

              It’s so weird to me that people think “using your phone” is the same thing as “playing on your phone.”

            5. OP Here*

              I am not “mad” I can’t “play on my phone, nor is this a “hill” I am “going to die on” because I won’t say anything to my boss. I block social media apps from my screen while I am at work (I don’t play games on my phone).

            6. Cosmerenaut*

              Why did you watch Severance and think “This is a great idea, I will emulate in and condescendingly judge everyone else who doesn’t!” ?

            7. NotAnotherManager!*

              It doesn’t sound like the LW is “play[ing] on their phone”, they’re using it for primarily business purposes (2FA and task tracking).

              Their employer’s policy is draconian and a bit hypocritical (as they require employee phones for their security systems). Having my phone with me all the time makes me more responsive to my employer’s needs more of the time (requirement of my job), and, if that flexibility only went one way, I’d get a new job.

        3. Raktajino*

          Luckily, there are physical 2fa devices that don’t require a phone subscription. My work does that as an alternative to your personal phone.

          1. OP Here*

            this convo inspired me to cut out the authenticator app and have my desk phone ring instead. luckily I might need to authenticate a few times a week, which is always annoying, but it’s only for a specific website (for my role personally).

        4. MrDoubt*

          you say that, but at previously job everybody was issued a phone, and most only ever used it to call the help desk and get 2fa codes.

          of course this company was also paranoid (for ..reasons) and had areas with strict information hygiene where no phones or information storage devices of any kind were allowed in or out without approval from security.

          so it may not be the best example of regular everyday companies day to day

        5. Cosmerenaut*

          It’s called a dongle.

          If a company was so cheap they won’t give people dongles, but was this obsessive about personal phone use, I’d have to have no other options before working there.

        6. jojo*

          They do make digimeters for verification purposes. Our company had them before they decided to use personal phones for verification. So we had to sync our phones to the computer. My phone is model 12 . It no longer ger accepted model 12 so now I have to click and have them send me a text. If they want me to get a higher model phone they can pay for it.

      2. Disabled guru*

        I have to use my personal phone for verification to get into our vpn and another verification to get into websites. And they don’t pay any of my phone bill which is really starting to annoy me.

        1. Coverage Associate*

          Yeah 2FA more than once a day isn’t unheard of. My firm doesn’t have landlines, so that alternative would not work, and we need to complete 2FA before we have access to our email.

          2FA at work through work email is strange to me. Everywhere I have worked, email is one of the main things 2FA is protecting.

          1. Dawn, higher ed*

            Many days, I have to use 2FA ten or fifteen or times times a day and sometimes it’s three or more in the space of a few minutes.

      3. commensally*

        Yeah, if they don’t want employees using their phones at work then they should not be requiring them for IT verification! (This was actually a whole fuss at my work when we introduced 2factor – some managers had a strict rule that staff could not have their phones visible at the customer service desk ever at all. And then IT introduced a 2factor that would require us to get codes on our phones at the service desk several times a shift with seeming to even realize this was an issue.)

        If they want a strict no phones rule they need to find workaround for 2factor (there are other options! our IT found them!) If they want to require staff to use personal phones for work…. they gotta let staff use personal phones for work.

  2. Panda*

    You want me to use my phone for two factor authentication to log into your systems? Then I have access to it throughout the day.

    I work in-house legal and we have our phones all the time. And I am allowed to text during the day. This manager (and possibly workplace) is very micromangey.

    1. Panda*

      I also meant to say for my first point above “unless you provide me with a company phone.”

      1. Monkeying Around for Money*

        We pressed this point at my current workplace, and unfortunately a whole lot more shots ended up being fired and my department so far has been losing the battle.

        Yea, we all got workphones instead of using our personal phones to communicate the floor issues to management, photograph and record, field questions, and work with contractors. Then our computer access to do records was shut down after being granted a month or two earlier, because we were “sitting in front of the computer too much.” Because we were starting a digital record-keeping system from scratch, twice.

        I’m not sure if there have been more volleys since the union’s mediation was invoked over that and other issues, since I’ve been off on medical. My take is that if they’re willing to start this fight, it’s probably not worth it for me to fight it and I should just completely avoid whatever it is they’re getting all foamed up over.

        At a reasonable place it would probably work out perfectly fine.

      2. What_the_What*

        2FA isn’t used all day long. Maybe once a week or so to reauthenticate after a set amount of time. I think it’s silly to pout and say “if I have to use it for 2FA, I should also be allowed to watch Tik Tok, chat with my bestie, and browse Amazon during work hours,” because if peopl are permitted to use their phones for “some things” they’ll use them for everything. It’s just human nature.

        Msgs can be checked on breaks and at lunch. Food and water intake when (presumably) on break consuming them. In the event of a TRUE emergency nobody is going to begrudge the OP answering and saying, “I got a call my kid was in an accident; must go.” (And surely there is a landline at the desk that could be called, as well?). I work in a classified SCIF 4 days a week. Those 4 days, I have NO access to a phone, smartwatch, fitbit–anything– unless I step out, unlock a locker, and go outside the building to get on it. Weirdly enough, it IS possible to go thru a workday w/o one’s phone once you get used to it.

        1. Silver Robin*

          I work at a legal service non profit and I have to use 2FA several times a day. One of the databases I need access to logs me out after ten minutes of inactivity and requires authentication every time I log back in. Others log me out after an hour or so and require reauthentication every 24 hours, including our in-house client database. There are only a couple of things I do for work on my phone, but even if it were just authentication, I would need access to it daily and likely multiple times a day.

          1. YetAnotherAnalyst*

            … I’m currently up to my 4th 2FA push of the day, and it’s not even a particularly busy day. On days when I’m switching between different tenants, I’ve had to do multiple 2FA pushes in the same hour. I think the minimum I can manage is twice a day, because the main system wants reauthenticating after 8 hours, so if you take a lunch it’s the start of the day and then about half an hour before the day ends…

        2. Wayward Sun*

          Depends on your 2FA system. I needed to use it multiple times a day, in my previous job.

          But my advice to LW would be to keep their work to-do list on their work computer.

          1. Perfectly Cromulent Name*

            I would actually prefer to leave my phone in another room (I work from home) but I have to use it for 2FA multiple times throughout the day.

          2. Jules the 3rd*

            Meh – it doesn’t read like OP is always at her computer. Having your phone vibrate when it’s time to check something is more reliable than having a computer pop-up when you may be up and moving.

            OP’s boss should check that all her tasks are being done and if they are, let OP cook.

        3. I Have RBF*

          2FA isn’t used all day long. Maybe once a week or so to reauthenticate after a set amount of time.

          Hahahahaha!

          No. I have to do 2FA multiple times a day – log in to VPN, log in to internal web site, log in to Jira, log in to servers, etc. The longest our sessions last is 8 hours, and that only if our computer isn’t locked for lunch or bathroom breaks.

          Your experience is not universal, and is, in fact, rare.

          1. What_the_What*

            I am on a military base, and using VPNs etc… all day every day. If you’re having to use 2FA multiple times PER DAY for every log on, that’s very rare. I put in a CAC and PIN for everything, (which is also a form of 2FA) but I’m not taking out my PHONE every time to type in a unique code. That’s insane.

            1. Crepe Myrtle*

              well, it’s common in my workplace, for multiple apps. So a lot of people are saying. Your military experience also isn’t universal.

            2. Vincaminor*

              That’s cool for you, but I use 2fa to validate each banking login — which expires after 5 minutes of no activity, so you know when the phone’s gonna ring. I also need it to validate each transfer instruction. I use a different 2fa app to validate logins to a supplier dashboard, which I do minimum every morning and usually at least once during the day. These are set up so that authentication must be through a phone app. So yes, I am using my PHONE every time for a unique code.

            3. Mad Scientist*

              Your experience is the exception here, not the rule, especially since you work on a military base. A lot of jobs rely very heavily on personal phones for MFA multiple times per day. And yes, it’s insane. But it’s the reality for many people. Just because you’ve had a different experience does not mean that others are exaggerating.

            4. Monkeying Around for Money*

              I think the difference here is that, since you are likely on a *secured physical site*, the requirements are more relaxed than someone out in general populace workplace. Everyone with access to your computer has already passed a baseline of trustworthiness and *traceability*.

              Also, if you have a secondary system that fills a similar security role to 2FA, then you’re possibly fulfilling the same need multiple times a day anyway.

              With how populr 2FA has gotten as an easy, “kick the security responsibility down to the grunts” kind of requirement, I can see people interacting with multiple trusted systems throughout the day jumping through these hoops constantly.

            5. WillowSunstar*

              My workplace has it each time we have to log into the Paycor app. This includes morning sign on, lunch out & in, and also evening sign out.

            6. just some guy*

              If using an authenticator app multiple times per day is “very rare”, all I can say is you have quite a few “very rare” people in your replies. I’m another.

              My work requires using a phone-based authenticator app for various specific systems that don’t play well with SSO. Those systems have a timeout, so it’s not particularly unusual that I might be using it a couple of times a day.

              Login requires a password, and the combination of randomly-generated strong passwords, regular mandated password changes, and a “never leave your device unlocked” policy means I need to use a password manager app which also lives on my phone. That can easily be several times a day too.

              Please don’t assume that the way it works for you is the way it works for everybody.

            7. Analytical Tree Hugger*

              It’s almost like…each workplace isn’t exactly like yours and uses different security systems and has different processes and requirements. What a shocker.

              Just wait until someone explains that not everyone feels the same way about [insert any possible topic here] as you do. It’s almost like other people have thoughts, feelings, and experiences, just like you do!

              What.

            8. Wayward Sun*

              Your stuff is probably all integrated into one sign-on, so you authenticate once and you’re good for everything you use during that session. That’s unfortunately not a very common setup in the private sector except at very large employers.

            9. Freya*

              I work with people’s financial information. Everything we do needs 2FA, and it all times out if we aren’t using it for varying amounts of time, because we’re dealing with people’s finances and personal information, and it’s one of the simple controls that shows compliance with Australia’s privacy laws. And there’s also parts of the tax office and various other federal and state government departments that require me to use the government’s 2FA app, which requires my personal phone to be of reasonable quality.

              Certain things can only be accessed with 2FA using the office mobile (locked up when not in use) because, again, finance. I do not want someone to be able to lodge paperwork with the tax office on my client’s behalf without oversight.

            10. jojo*

              Every time you enter your 6 digit pin is 2fa. Your government computer times out after 10 minutes of inactivity. You cannot change that time. You have to remove your CAC every time you step away. And enter pin when you come back. So you are using 2fa multiple times per day. You also use for it certain tasks you do.

        4. Arrietty*

          I have to use 2FA every time I log into, make or approve a transaction from, or make any changes to our bank account.

        5. Perfectly Cromulent Name*

          2FA once a week? I have to do it several times a day Sometimes (not often, thankfully) I have to do it several times an hour depending on the system that I am in.

        6. Magc*

          Why would one only drink water when on a break if working a desk job, or wait for breaks to eat something? If I’m working a desk job (not at a reception desk or answering the phone), I don’t wait until breaks to go to the restroom or drink water or eat.

          (Not to say that a piece of paper couldn’t be used to jot down items to enter into an app later, although personally that lowers the odds of it making into the app at all.)

        7. Nomic*

          “2FA isn’t used all day long. Maybe once a week or so to reauthenticate after a set amount of time.” At your job maybe. I use it multiple times a day.

          “I think it’s silly to pout and say “if I have to use it for 2FA, I should also be allowed to watch Tik Tok, chat with my bestie, and browse Amazon during work hours,””

          Wow, that’s just …. [Google, give me an example of a slippery slope argument]. I’m pretty sure that phone usage at work isn’t going to cause society to collapse do to lack of productivity.

        8. That Paralegal*

          Ok, define “break.” How do managers A, B, and C know exactly when you are taking your break? What if you don’t (or can’t) leave your desk on your break? What if there is no break room? So every rando who walks by during your break thinks, “oh, this dude is watching tiktok on company time.” This is micromanager nonsense. Let people prove themselves by their output, not whether they take a five minute breather to do a damn crossword because their brain is over-stimulated and they need a pause.

          So you work in a place that you can’t bring your phone at all. That’s not uncommon. But you don’t need to be smug or condescending about it.

        9. JustaTech*

          1) When I am on a VPN, I have to use the 2FA every single time I type my password, so if I am doing a lot of training (for example) I will have to use my 2FA every single time I sign off a training. Some days that could be 20+ times.

          2) I had to move heaven and earth to get a “landline” phone at my desk instead of just “use Teams” (Teams doesn’t work with outside service techs calling to get into the building, thanks). No one else on my entire floor has a landline. There is also no central reception – I honestly have no idea how someone would get ahold of me in an emergency if I don’t have my phone.

          3) Where did the LW say that they were going to “watch Tik Tok, chat with my bestie, and browse Amazon”?

          1. Lenora Rose*

            3) LW didn’t, but What the What knows that the actual examples from the OP aren’t that bad and thus has to inflate.

        10. AcademiaNut*

          I don’t keep work stuff on my phone, but I didn’t mind the 2FA at first because it’s basically a pseudo random number generator with a fixed seed and doesn’t share personal information. I’m kind of regretting it now, because I have to use 2FA to clock in and clock out, to access four different VPNs in three different countries (one of which demands you re 2FA if the connection is idle for more than an hour), to log onto GitHub, Jira and Slack, to log into Google Mail, to access departmental resources, with two different apps, one of which required contortions to turn off fingerprint recognition.

          I’m not someone who is tied to my phone – I don’t have work email on it, and I’ve been known to forget it at home in the morning (or work in the evening), but I have to keep it in arm’s read in the office and carry it to meetings solely for all the 2FA stuff. Not to mention the time where it got damaged on an international work trip and I lost access to various work resources until I got home and could replace it.

        12. Lenora Rose*

          *Sensible* 2FA for most jobs is maybe once a week, slightly more often if at home.

          Not all companies make their 2FA sensibly, and others have legit info hygiene reasons for making it stricter. In both cases, you’ve had several people cite using 2FA multiple times daily right in the comment section here.

        13. Amber Anon*

          “if peopl are permitted to use their phones for “some things” they’ll use them for everything. It’s just human nature.”

          I have my phone on me all day at work, and use it regularly to glance at work emails, messages, and meeting locations when I’m away from my computer (providing technical support for others and attending meetings) as well as for MFA.

          On most workdays, I don’t do anything personal with my phone until after I leave work, and mostly don’t even think about it because I’m too busy doing my job. When I’m expecting communication about something like a medical appointment, home repair or car repair I’ll check notifications once an hour or so, but that’s about it. Definitely no shopping Amazon or watching videos, though I do plenty of both on my own time.

          I guess I’m not human.

      3. Golden Retriever*

        All the reasons stated are valid and quick, and likely other employees have similar reasons and OP being allowed to use her phone is likely to cause others to complain. So I don’t think asking for and getting an exception would be as helpful as one might imagine. This seems to be just one of those rules that is meant to minimize the probability a manager will have to have a difficult conversation. Someone once had trouble managing their workload, and the phone was theorized to be a factor. So we will prohibit everyone from using their phone on the off chance it will save us from an awkward conversation at some point.

    2. Antilles*

      You want me to use my phone for two factor authentication to log into your systems? Then I have access to it throughout the day.
      I don’t understand what you’re saying here. OP’s boss straight up included the caveat of “unless it’s for IT verification processes”, nor is OP claiming that it’s work-related log-ins. Nobody seems to have an issue with OP using their phone for doing two-factor authentication or whatever; it’s OP’s other activities like food tracking, texting her mom, etc that’s under discussion.
      Unless you’re trying to claim that if they ask you to use it occasionally for log-ins, that earns you the right to use your phone as you see fit at other times – which does not remotely feel like a convincing argument.

      1. Dawn, higher ed*

        I don’t know that many people are making the argument you seem to think they are. What I find convincing with regard to 2FA is this: the employer can’t claim that phone use is a security issue or an optics issue if they require it to be used for 2FA. They can come up with reasons, but other than security and optics, the main reason is going to be performance. If it’s a performance issue, the employer should address performance (not cell phones use). Maybe there are other reasons to micromanage phone use, but in the absence of any actual reason, we’re assuming optics or security.

        1. Amateur Linguist*

          It’s fair to say that the boss can also address the reasons for poor performance and pinpoint an issue that is getting in the way of OP’s work or what is also against the rules for other reasons that might not matter to OP but do matter to others.

          My supervisor did it relatively tactfully and without causing a big scene, but she had caught me a couple of times and knew what the reason for the problems with my performance actually were. I shaped up — I didn’t totally abandon the phone, but I made sure it wasn’t the focus of my attention.

    3. learnedthehardway*

      Exactly. I would strongly prefer to NOT use 2 factor authentication for every last thing, but it is a necessity, and has to be done through a separate device (ie. a smart phone). And my clients want me to be available, so now I have Teams and instant messages, my calendar, and my various email addresses, and basically my entire business on my phone.

      It’s just the way things are now. The manager in this situation needs some re-education about how the world works.

      In the OP’s shoes, I would point out to the manager that I use my phone for my job – not just 2 factor authentication, but also for scheduling, calendar reminders, to do lists, instant messaging with colleagues, etc. etc. I would also point out that it is a LOT faster for me to instant message people rather than have phone conversations.

      1. Amateur Linguist*

        Ours is nuts but at least it allows you to receive a text on our work phones, even if we’re logging in from them. Everyone in the organisation has a work device, and they are locked down tight.

  3. Kristy M*

    LW may have to switch to paper tracking for her dietary tracking. It could be as simple as a pocket notebook or as fancy as an Erin Condren health journal. I personally like to paper track because I find my phone too distracting and more often than not I forget that I was about to log a water when I pick up my phone and wind up swiping my Kindle app open instead. (ADHD!)

    2. crtchqn2*

      Yah, i do this with my personal and diet planners. I have two hobonichis for personal and another for work only to do lists. Cuts down on looking at my phone.

    3. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      I could see the manager nixing that too! You shouldn’t do anything personal while at work!

      1. umami*

        I do think it’s the phone use in particular that is being addressed, not doing something on paper. Something about people being on a cellphone has a different set of optics that seems to always be ‘they are using it for personal reasons’, and that is what this LW is dealing with. They have a boss that gets twitchy about seeing people on their phones, so LW’s best bet is to … not do it, even if it’s more convenient. Or do it away from their desk.

        1. Amateur Linguist*

          Also it’s a fine line between writing down notes and then oops a notification came in for an app and then you check the weather and…

          Having a notebook is easier to focus on the things you need to do and there’s no temptation to stray from that.

          I’m chronically bad at this myself but I get stuff done. However, others feel differently and if they’re paying me they get to set the rules.

          1. umami*

            I tend to agree, because my spouse absolutely does this! I might pick up my phone because I have to address a work message, so he’ll get on his phone. I take care of the work thing in 30 seconds, but he stays scrolling on his phone until I say something. And he gets defensive, saying he just was on the phone while I was busy, but I’m like ‘I got off the phone 5 minutes ago, you just didn’t notice.’ lol the phone time suck is real!

      2. Roland*

        Well sure that’s possible but it’s also possible that this is not what would happen. I think it’s a great thing to st least try.

    4. Betsy Bobbins*

      As a diabetic I track my diet for carbs and I rely on my app to tell me how many are in what I am eating so I can dose myself properly with insulin, simply writing it down would not be helpful, the LW could be in a similar boat.

      1. oodles*

        I was thinking that diabetics really may need their phone, especially if they use it to connect to their insulin pump. However, “water intake” is not really in the same category as “how much insulin do I need.”

        1. That Paralegal*

          I believe there was a letter here about a manager giving a diabetic a hard time about using her phone, which alerted her to her need for insulin or her blood sugar changing dramatically or what have you. IIRC she decided to just ignore her alerts while giving a presentation to a group including some higher-ups and there were Consequences for said manager.

          So, yes: diabetics with certain devices (FreeStyle, DexCom, etc.) absolutely need access to their phones regularly. They’re not “playing on their phone” when the app is saying your sugar just went up 100 points.

          1. anononon*

            A lot of insulin pumps these days DO rely on a phone and people definitely should be able to access their phones for various health needs, but if I recall correctly, that instance that was particularly egregious because the device the LW was using was actually NOT their phone but was a display/input device that was physically part of the pump, and the boss knew it.

          2. Mx. Teacher*

            It’s #3 on “the cheap flights, the bursting jacket, and other stories of malicious compliance” if anyone wants to read it!

      2. inksmith*

        Yes, but LW said it’s for trying to identify food intolerances, so we know they’re not in a similar boat. And if they were in that boat, they could explain that to their manager who already said it’s OK for emergencies and would likely say it’s OK for preventing an immediately possible emergency as well.

        1. Lenora Rose*

          It’s not the same, but identifying food intolerances absolutely sounds like not playing around.

    5. Miso*

      Same. The electronic devices could have ANYthing on them – twenty different reasons I might have opened a screen. The paper log book for meds and food tracking has only one purpose!

    6. Raktajino*

      I used to use paperclips for water tracking at work: Every time I refilled my water I would add a clip to the “done” side of my monitor riser. You could make a physical kanban type board out of anything, really. (And yes, this did appeal to my ADHD)

      Qualitative things like food would be harder to track in that way, but presumably you’re mostly eating during your breaks. Some color coding and creativity could incorporate some qualitative tracking into the office supply kanban, too, without looking too obviously Not At Work for the boss. Regular paper clip for water, binder clip for coffee, etc.

    7. Tio*

      Or, step out to the kitchen/bathroom for a minute and log it, then come back? Or let her boss know that she has a family issue and may need to check the phone a bit today, for the hospitalized friend example? Because OP mentioned their boss said to let them know if they’re using their phone, and then apparently… didn’t do that. OP, what would have happened if you had actually notified your boss like that? Do you think you would have still had an issue?

        1. Tio*

          Ok, so it doesn’t sound to me like she’s being unreasonable (within the confines of the policy). She saw you, said something, you told her it was an emergency, and she said let me know if you have something like that come up again.

          I think that’s a pretty normal interaction for this kind of thing. I think you need to do as suggested and move all work-related tasks to your work computer (reminders calendars etc) and step physically away when you want to do something else non-work related on your phone.

          Two things about your letter that I think some people are picking up on – you seem very upset about the no phones thing, for one. I know it sucks, but you have to let go of it emotionally. I have had to both follow and enforce rules I thought ranged from annoying to outright stupid and counterproductive. One was a “no headphones” rule that changed in an office I was in. It was one of those “someone’s not behaving so everyone must have consequences” kind of rule and I hated it, it did nothing for us, and was considered annoying. but I had one employee who would not stop wearing her earphones and trying to hide it under her hair. no matter how stupid a rule it is, I have to enforce it. because if I don’t and my boss’s boss catches her, then we’re both in trouble. For something stupid? Yes. Does that matter? no. It was harder for her to break this rule than to comply with it, and she still wouldn’t do it. I ended up having to write her up, because she just couldn’t bring herself to comply. Now she has that discipline on file and it soured my opinion of her.

          That brings me to my second point. You’ve been talked to about this several times, so at this point you’re likely approaching the end of the goodwill here. Continuing to think about this is going to cost you more than converting to paper tracking or stepping away is going to cost you. If you do not have some kind of issue that MUST be solved by being on the phone, you really need to put it away, and since your boss has offered it, if you need to continue to check up on your friend or anything similar in the future you need to be very proactive in letting her know and use it sparingly. Because even if you continue to break the rules about the phone and never get fired, you’re at the very least going to cost yourself goodwill and possibly references in the future for something you don’t really need to rely on.

          1. OP Here*

            I didn’t tell her anything about why I was on my phone that day. She told me not to be on it (the first couple times over a year and a half were as a group with other coworkers and more of a casual “please don’t be on phones”) and that day, if I needed to for an emergency going forward, to let her know.

            However, I did comment down thread that I was in an emotional place when I wrote in – so yes, I was probably too emotional about this one thing. Reading my letter now I kind of can’t believe I ever wrote in about this.

            Anyway. Sorry.

            Since then, I’ve installed the app on my desktop and (as of today) I am also going to see how using my desk phone for 2FA goes so I don’t have to use my phone at all. Because now if I need to use my phone to authenticate, I get nervous she’s going to come over to my desk right when I need to do that and will see me using my phone. Not see the screen, just that the phone is in my hand….

            1. Ellie*

              Do you think she’d understand more if you told her you were using it to ask about a friend who was in hospital? If you do it in a non-defensive, serious way? It might help.

    8. Renton*

      Yeah, I think that may be the boss’ reasoning here. It’s so easy to grab your phone for 2FA, logging your food or scheduling a task, and then decide you might as well take a look at Facebook, Instagram and a TikTok video while you’re at it, especially if you feel caught up on your work or needing a break. Two minutes can turn into 20 in a hurry!

    9. Raida*

      or (finances dependant!) one of those digital scribble pads that can turn handwriting into digitised text.
      I have a not-smart version for my timekeeping, where a press of a button clears the screen and it’s gone, but one of my teammates has the full on type which he has lists, notes, scribbles in and it is fan.tas.tic.

    10. KaboomCheese*

      Yes I think LW should try and move as much as possible to the computer, like reminders for meetings and kitchens. And then talk to Boss about the rest that can’t be moved, like health tracking. And if Boss says no that probably means they’ll have to use a notebook for tracking at work and put it in the phone later.

      1. amoeba*

        Yeah, this is a way. Honestly, I use my personal phone at work quite a lot (nobody cares here), but even I have all my meeting reminders and stuff in Outlook – that’s what it’s there for, right?

  4. Tanya*

    Phone usage could also be a security issue for a company. Any work related to-do lists or reminders should probably be kept on work devices as it could be a security breach risk to have client information (even just a name) on a personal device. Annoying but it’s the reality. I think it’s reasonable for an employee to just take a few ‘bathroom/texting’ breaks for tracking personal things rather than doing it at the desk.

    1. Long Time Fan, First Time Caller*

      I am imagine that this is about client privacy, given that this is a law firm. So that makes sense to me. If it isn’t, this is overkill and irritating management. In either case, I think Tanya’s is a good idea, of taking a bathroom break and bringing your phone!

    2. amoeba*

      Yeah, that’s also true. I’m not in law but we also have extremely strict rules about business data on private devices (basically: absolutely none allowed). I can’t imagine having my to-do list on my phone!

    2. bamcheeks*

      If you have access to a kitchen at work and is not a health hazard, I promise you someone is checking and tidying or cleaning it regularly!

      1. Elizabeth West*

        Yepperooni, and that person is usually the receptionist/general office admin during business hours.

        1. Common Taters on the Ax*

          Agreed, but if it’s a work task, I’d say it belongs on a work-based reminder system. Same thing for the meetings–and more so if they are ever about anything with confidentiality concerns. I think it’s a bad idea to bring that usage up with the boss. It sends the message that you don’t know how to use your work computer. The health tracking seems worth bringing up very mildly, just to double-check that it’s an absolute. If it is, it’s time to accept it and adjust to the conditions of the job.

          1. Amateur Linguist*

            ITA — I set up daily reminders for that sort of thing in my old job on Outlook and it’s a habit that’s followed me off the front desk and out of the office to my WFH job because otherwise some sporadic tasks get lost in the shuffle.

    3. Judge Judy and Executioner*

      At my last office job, kitchen duty was assigned to an individual every week. It involved unloading the dishwasher in the morning, cleaning out the fridge at the end of the week, and nightly tasks of cleaning the coffee pots and wiping down counters. A list was distributed indicating who had which week, and everyone added it to their work calendars. During your week, you were expected to check at least twice a day. If you were out of the office during one of the days you had kitchen duty, you were responsible for finding a backup or trading days.

    1. KDO*

      As someone who has had a mysterious dermatitis and several allergies that I’m trying to understand, there are very reasonable reasons for using an app to track your food consumption / timing. I always thought food sensitivities were overrated until I ended up having one. (I am allergic to nickel and nickel is in a TON of foods. While I was learning my level of sensitivity, I had to get an app to figure out what was safe to eat and to track how much nickel was in each type of food. It was extremely annoying and I would also have been very frustrated if I couldn’t do it when I ate.)

      1. What_the_What*

        I don’t dispute that at all; however, if the OP is eating and is on break, then she can probably use the phone, since on break. If the OP can’t even be on her phone at the desk, then it’s a safe bet boss isn’t letting her EAT at the desk, so I’m trying to imagine what the need for access to that app for the entire day even when not around food is? Why can’t it just be consulted at lunchtime and/or break times?

        1. OP Here*

          funny you should mention that, because eating at our desks is not something that I, or anyone, has been talked to about.

          granted, it’s not like we’re eating things that have a heavy smell (unless it’s in the kitchen at work), or constantly eating all day. but my boss has seen me eat, like, a string cheese, or encouraged us to grab food from an office potluck, and hasn’t sent an email about it at any point.

      2. Chirpy*

        Wait, nickel in food? I’m also sensitive to nickel and have never heard this. What kind of foods is it commonly in?

        1. Raktajino*

          From a very superficial web search: legumes, seafood, grains…a lot apparently. Especially plants grown with soil that is high in nickel.

        2. Lenora Rose*

          Grains, legumes and veg mostly, IIRC. A bit in fruit and chocolate. But I haven’t had to track it, so KDO might remember things I don’t.

    2. Random Poet*

      Wow! This is extreme, and very rude. People with medical conditions like diabetes do need to be tracking things like water and food/sugar levels, which do have apps. I’m not saying she has diabetes specifically, but there are relevant medical conditions that require tracking.

      1. OP Here*

        I didn’t see the original comment, but I actually do have diabetes! type 2, and I don’t use a CGM, but I kind of wish I did so I could keep track of my blood sugars in a “real” way, instead of how I do now, which is basically going off vibes.

        1. Llama Enegry*

          I think for the food tracking, if it’s not just “log what you just ate” (where you could use a paper log and then transfer it) but more of a “check carbs before you eat” kind of situation, and there’s not a web-based version that it would be OK to use on a computer, that’s something to maybe ask your manager about– “I do have a health condition where I need to use a medical app very briefly around mealtimes, which is the only time I will use my phone for non-emergency use. Do you need me to request a formal accommodation to document that?”

        2. judyjudyjudy*

          You can ask your doctor to write you a prescription for a blood glucose device. Maybe you’ll only be able to get the kind where you have to prick your finger. Make sure the prescription includes the device, the test strips, the lancets and the calibration solution. You may want to talk to your insurance first to see if they will cover it, though (if you are in the US).

        3. Ellis Bell*

          If you’re using it to manage your diabetes that’s going to go over very differently with your manager.

        4. KaboomCheese*

          But that’s a valid heath problem for which your boss should ok the use of your phone a few times a day.

    3. ArchivesPony*

      Actually, someone who is diabetic may need to track their food consumption and use their phone to do it. Not necessarily someone who’s a Type 1 or someone who has a Continuous Glucose monitor (which would constitute a medical device) but tracking food is incredibly useful for other types of diabetics. So telling someone to “grow up” is very dismissive of the real fact of health issues.

      1. mbs001*

        Right but the need is when the person eats — which should not be on company time but rather on breaks. So they should not need to have their phone out when working.

    4. Not on board*

      Wow, these comments are aggressive and condescending. Lots of people use their phone for tracking in the moment so they don’t forget, or check on a sick friend because it popped in their head and they’re worried if they don’t do it right then, they’ll forget.

      If you are permitted to take coffee breaks or similar, take them away from your workspace and use that time to do the stuff with your phone.

      Use your computer calendar and such for the reminders.
      But yeah, your work is being ridiculous.

      1. Shadow Cat*

        The thing is that all these things really add up over the course of a day. It’s a myth we can multitask. She could be spending a quarter of her day fussing with her phone and barely realize it. I am *amazed* at how much of my life I lose fussing with my phone.

  7. Rogue Slime Mold*

    In a past thread on visible phone use, I recall that what kept pagers in business is that they are so obviously NOT a thing you can use to scroll through social media. A person directing their attention to their pager is clearly getting boring work news, or possibly alarming work news. But they are not dropping their attention off of you and instead down to a far more fascinating message that someone liked a FB post of theirs.

    “I’m reading this” body language has become “don’t bother me” nonverbal communication.

    1. Antilles*

      I agree. Along these lines, I’ve found that if I’m going to use my phone in a meeting to take notes or something, it helps the perception tremendously if I announce it beforehand (e.g., “hold on, let me get up my notes app”). If you’re just on your phone, people assume you’re not paying attention; if you announce it first so people know, nobody has a problem with it.

  8. Chairman of the Bored*

    Strong “Tiger Mike” vibes from this boss.

    If I were LW I would set the work-related alarms on my computer and plan to do any personal phone use in the bathroom stall.

    1. 2 Cents*

      That was my thought as well LOL. This boss sounds really micromanager-y. It’s also fair that the OP could be using her phone more than she realizes. I started using an app that quits my most-used apps after a set period (set by me) that can be adjusted on weekends/free time. Maybe she should consider that so the temptation isn’t even there?

      1. OP Here*

        what app is this??? my focus mode works pretty well for me now, but I’d still be interested in hearing about this.

        1. Llama Enegry*

          If you have an iPhone it’s an option in Settings–> Screen Time. You can set a time limit for particular apps by day of the week (e.g., I let myself catch up on Instagram over the weekends), or create a group of apps that have a total minutes limit (like 20 minutes for all the games you include). You can also set “downtime” where some apps are unavailable.

  9. Daniel*

    Wondering if your work allows you to check your personal email at work?

    If so, and GMail works, you could probably use the web browser version of messages.google.com/web (and the web version of whatsapp) to answer text messages throughout the day – and never need to touch your phone at all

    1. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      Probably not a good idea, being that they work at a legal firm. Their could be a thing with personal email at work (security risk) and maybe a supena would make it so that the LW’s personal email would come up if files were requested.

      1. That Paralegal*

        You can’t typically subpoena a law firm’s email at all. My email is FULL of confidential client information for dozens of clients. Trying to subpoena every email account that has ever been accessed on a law firm’s computer would be shut down with a quickness. Overly broad, vague, and unduly burdensome.

        Caveat: I am not a lawyer (see username) and I work in family law. YMMV.

      2. just some guy*

        Also, when the problem began with a perception of OP doing personal stuff on company time, hard to think boss is going to be happy with a solution that involves doing personal stuff on company equipment.

    2. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      Rarely a need – rather than a wish – to read/answer text messages all day. Just check your phone during breaks – that’s presumably what the boss wants the OP to do.

  10. Thepuppiesareok*

    Sounds like OP needs to move as much as she can to either work computer (schedule reminders on work calendar and use something like notepad for to do list) and paper (food and water tracking to be updated on break/lunch/after work). I did this for years when I’ve worked in call centers that didn’t allow phones to be used on the floor. Confidential, especially payment information, reasons and in a couple to comply with HIPPA. OP seems a bit focused on her preferred solution and not realizing others are available. While it’s micromanagy I’d imagine there’s confidentiality concerns behind it. For the updates on the friend I handled this by not asking permission, but informing what was happening. “Boss I’ve got a loved one in the hospital and will be checking for updates throughout the day. When I need to check outside of my breaks and lunch is it ok to check briefly at my desk or should I step away for a minute?”. Usually I was told to lock my computer and then check. If it was more than a minute or two then step away. I never had any boss say I couldn’t check.

    1. KateM*

      And TBH, it makes more sense to have your WORK notifications and to-do lists on your WORK electronics.

  11. thr33p3at*

    Do I agree this manager is overbearing/micromanaging? Yes.

    But also…the reliance on a phone is really strange! And feels weirdly out-of-touch for 2025.

    The Microsoft To-Do app, for example, is free to use across work and personal platforms, and at my work it’s built into Teams. There are countless other desktop apps for to-do lists, or if you can’t download an app, countless other websites which can do the same thing (reminders/notifications). And if your workplace is REALLY draconian and you can’t access any websites without approval, then write down your to-do list, and use your work computer’s built-in clock feature for alarms (I have NEVER used a computer, any OS, that didn’t have alarms built into its clock feature).

    Same with water/food tracking. Writing it down, on paper, until your lunch or other break is very achievable. And it’s certainly no more a privacy risk than typing it into your phone, especially if you’re connected to office wifi.

    Maybe I’m sensitive to the way people are SO attached to their phones! But the insistence on “using *my* phone for *my* apps” seems sort of stubborn and unnecessary.

    Re: texting. Text on your breaks. Or tell people, “I’m at work now—I’ll text you at X time, but call me if there’s an emergency.”

    1. LadyMTL*

      I was going to say something very similar. I totally agree that the manager is being over the top, but none of the examples the OP gave seem to be all that important (except perhaps asking after the friend, but even that could be done at lunch / on break.) Now ofc I don’t know if they have medical issues requiring that they monitor their water intake but they didn’t mention anything specific.

      OP, I get that you’re frustrated but saying this as someone who’s office had a very strict ‘no phones during work hours’ rule, it won’t be the end of the world.

      1. OP Here*

        Admittedly, when I wrote in, that day I was talking to my mom about the friend because they weren’t doing well and passed away a couple days later. So, I acknowledge that my emotions were running higher than usual — I honestly might not have written in otherwise.

        2. Amateur Linguist*

          Sincerely — and text is hard to convey sympathy/empathy here so you’ll just have to take my word for it — no-one would fault you for being upset. I’ve definitely both been able to understand a similar decision and be upset by it, and while, yeah, there are reasonable perspectives on this situation to consider, it can really hurt to be in this situation at a sensitive moment.

          I hope you get something sorted out. I used my moment of anger to look harder for another job, and I ended up getting promoted to where I work from home and thus can fiddle about with my phone so long as I also get stuff done. But in my case I was in a public-facing coverage role and it was reasonable to assume the 30 sec it took to look at a message was also the 30 sec it took for someone to come to the door and need to be let in. So there’s a point where you can be indignant at something that is nevertheless fairly reasonable from someone else’s point of view, and the real advice you need is how to navigate this diplomatically while respecting the alternative views on the matter, because you did the right thing here pouring your heart out to Alison than being confrontational towards your boss.

          But yeah, I’ve absolutely been there and may I offer you a hug and my sincerest condolences because it sucks and it always happens when you’re at your most fragile. I hope things get better for you and your mum.

        3. thr33p3at*

          Your emotions totally make sense, given that context! Sorry to hear about your loss, OP. Sending your loved ones all the best.

    2. Sillysaurus*

      Yeah, I had the same thought. I have tons of reminders set up on my work computer. I don’t want any of that on my phone!

      I also basically never text anyone at work, and people in my life are aware of this. I might check my phone at lunch once in a while, but otherwise I’m not going to see any texts until I’m back home at the end of the day. If I needed to food track for some reason (I hope I never do, this sounds so tedious), I’d do it during PTO because I just don’t have time during a normal workday.

      Admittedly, I work in healthcare so norms may be different. OP’s phone usage would be really excessive at my workplace.

    3. Not on board*

      I don’t find the reliance on the phone strange at all! I agree that they can set up alarms on their computer and use a physical notepad for to do lists, and to mark down things like food and water intake to avoid the phone use.

      And the vast majority of workplaces require 2-factor verification that uses a cell phone to log into important programs and websites. Which is usually the employee’s personal cell phone. It’s a little unfair to expect them to use their personal cellphone for 2F logins and then be this militant about phone use in the office.

      1. Pizza Rat*

        It seems a bit over the top to me too. I also couldn’t function without mine–our network passwords are required to be at least 15 characters and I can’t memorize that much. I need my password manager.

    4. Annika Hansen*

      I was thinking the same thing. I would hate to work at such a micromanaging place, but also reminders for work can done in any enterprise email/calendaring system so just use that. I could see if you have a health need like to monitor your blood sugar.

    5. CR*

      I was going to suggest the same thing. Just use your work computer. I never use my personal phone for anything work-related!

    6. not nice, don't care*

      At *my* workplace we get in major trouble for mixing personal and work stuff on work devices, but we’re subject to FOIA.

      Congrats on *your* N1.

    7. Bubbles*

      Ok, cool? I have hypoglycemia and ADHD, and the phone is overwhelmingly the best tool for tracking. Doesn’t have to work for you to work for me.

    8. Wheelchair Wonder*

      And yet here I sit at home, working from home, with my phone, and wow all my tasks get done anyway! Whoda thunk?

    9. umami*

      I agree. I also don’t agree with the boss, but … the excuses LW uses for needing to use their phone aren’t really good ones? Pushing back for those reasons isn’t going to get the boss to change their mind if they just don’t like to optics of people sitting at their desks on their cellphones.

    10. Pepperminty*

      To be fair Microsoft To-Do is a very limited and irritating tool compared to some better apps. Personally I much prefer to use Things on my iPhone.

      But when I worked in an office I would not have had my phone out using this while at my desk.

    11. KaboomCheese*

      People are often unaware what is (or can be made) available on the computer. Outlook can be used for tasks, not just mail and calendar. There is Microsoft ToDo and Planner can be used in Teams. Even if you are not allowed to download and install software, you might still be able to get stuff via the Microsoft store or add-ins for the browser.

  12. HiddenT*

    My question is, would your boss be similarly angry if you called your mother and spoke to her for two minutes to get an update on your hospitalized friend? I ask because it feels like some people view any use of a smartphone for texting as “bad” and “distracting” but wouldn’t blink an eye at a quick personal phone call for something important like that. It may be that your boss would see both as equally bad, however.

    I agree overall with Alison’s point that if you’re obviously getting your work done, telling you not to be on your phone is micro-managing. At my previous job, my boss told me when I started that I was welcome to bring a book in to read when it was slow, as there was occasional down-time, but was less enthusiastic about me being on my phone, even though I often use it to de-stress and re-center myself (ADHD), and putting down my phone when I got a call or email was much easier than putting down a book (I often hyper-focus on reading). She was a micro-manager, but she also refused to fire anyone, so I ended up just using my phone when I wanted and did my job much more quickly and efficiently than her or my coworker did theirs, so she couldn’t say much.

    1. Mommadog*

      Hidden T.
      ….but you KNOW mom is going to want to chitchat, AND that 2min call or text is going to turn into 10-20 min quickly. And it won’t be just a 1 time..I can see this escalating. Reminds me of a former job/ co-worker. Not fair to the rest of the staff that are under the same rules and the boss will say that the check on family friend, while beloved, is not the same category as a parent, grandparent, spouse, sub or child…ie immediate family

      1. The Body Is Round*

        I had coworkers who would snip at me for having my phone out to check a message, but who would spend fifteen minutes yakking with each other at the beginning of a shift before starting any actual work.

  13. SunshineKittens*

    When your boss sent you the email, that would have been a good time to discuss why you are using your phone. He may not know, so it may be unintentionally placing you in a bad light.

    It might be good to request a work phone where you can keep your to do lists. Microsoft To do syncs between the phone and desktop, as does the calendar and OneNote.

    I too struggled with learning my company’s way of technology. Especially since they were less advanced than what I would like.

    You can also set up reminders in the outlook calendar and it’ll popup when it’s due.

  14. Taylor Swift*

    “I use my phone to track my water intake” is a pretty weak reason. I wouldn’t even try to use that in a conversation with the boss. It won’t come off well.

    1. Qwerty*

      I’m not a fan of AAM’s suggestion to categorize this as a medical reason. It frames it as a medical accomodation in the hopes the manager will just back off. But it would backfire pretty badly if the manager actually started the accomodation process and/or asked follow up questions.

      1. Seashell*

        I could see it if a doctor did say “you must track your water intake daily because of X illness”, but if it’s just a general “try to drink 8 glasses of a water a day” like they’d say to anyone, I wouldn’t go with it as an excuse.

        1. Amateur Linguist*

          Someone I knew had to drink two liters of water a day due to kidney issues. He just used a standard sized 500ml water bottle to measure and made sure he had four of those a day.

      2. nnn*

        Lots of things are medical that don’t rise to the level of requiring accommodations. Example, tracking calories because you’re trying to change your weight/labwork, etc.

        1. I Have RBF*

          My late wife used to track calories and grams of fat so she could avoid gall bladder attacks. It wasn’t at doctor’s orders, but it’s what she needed to do to avoid the ER.

      3. Tango*

        LW said in the comments that they have diabetes, and track their intake to manage it. So, LW would be fine if their manager followed up.

    2. JB (not in Houston)*

      It depends on why the OP is tracking it, though. I have to do this because if I don’t get enough water, I have blood pressure issues. From the info in the letter, we can’t assume the OP is doing it for medical reasons, but we also can’t assume they aren’t.

  15. Pepperminty*

    Sorry but if I was your manager I’d be telling you to use your calendar or whatever desktop productivity tools you can access for reminders and tasks. If you pick your phone up for that, you’re going to be distracted by other things on it – there is plenty of evidence for this.

    1. Lily Rowan*

      Yeah, work reminders should be on your work equipment – and I take that position from my side as a worker! I don’t want to have work information only on my personal phone.

    3. Generic Name*

      Yeah, and I’d consider tracking food/water in a Word document that you email to your personal email at the end of the day (and delete the contents daily so your personal medical info isn’t stored on your work computer).

  16. Qwerty*

    It doesn’t make sense to keep your work to-do list on your cell phone when you aren’t supposed to be on your cell phone at work. Same for the notifications for work tasks like checking the kitchens – put those into your work calendar.

    This company has been pretty explicit about not wanting people on their phones at work, so I don’t think there’s much standing here to push back on that, especially after having been talked to multiple times about that.

    1. umami*

      ‘especially after having been talked to multiple times about that.’

      That, to me, is the real issue. LW seems very conscientious and a good worker, but the phone habit is driving their boss batty, whether that’s reasonable or not. So finding ways to do the same stuff without relying on the phone is probably the only way around it.

    2. Raida*

      I agree, by setting it up on the phone in the first place OP set themselves up for failure.

      I’d guess it was fine at a previous workplace and worked as organisational tools, so they just applied the same approach here.

      What they *should* have done after finding out about the no-phone-use policy was set it all up with work tools – possibly finding they are lacking and presenting those issues to the manager to ask for a work device.

      Now? They need to learn new tools, for everything, via the computer probably – but asking for a work-only device for Authentication and Work Organisational Tools should be the first step

  17. Apples and Oranges*

    Well I agree this is super micromanage-y but I guess I don’t agree with any kind of pushback on this. If this is the work culture, the things the letter writer listed as potential exceptions do not seem high priority enough to me to necessitate an exception. Plenty of desktop apps including native Microsoft ones can be used for to-do lists and reminders. And tracking food does not seem like something necessary to do on work time (could easily be done during the lunch break or as others have said, on paper and then entered into an app at the end of the day).

    1. MissMuffett*

      Totally. I can understand that these may be easier or whatever on the phone but since it’s been a big enough deal to be talked to formally about, and there are reasonable alternatives (computer calendar/reminders, writing down on paper and entering into app at lunch) it seems like the kind of thing the OP just needs to deal with. If I were a manager that had had to have a couple of formal convos with an employee over something and they came back with ‘but what about this? Or this?’ And these were the reasons they thought they should get to be an exception, i would be pretty irritated.

      1. umami*

        I think that is what the LW is missing – there isn’t going to be a good reason for the boss that isn’t an emergency. Full stop. This is costing them capital despite having a good work history, and it’s .. not worth it. Why continue to give a boss a poor impression of your ability to follow very clear instructions for something so low stakes as tracking your water?

      2. OP Here*

        This, I guess, was the first time I had been “formally” talked to about this. The other times were more casual as a group as more of an fyi kind of thing. Not specifically calling any of us out.

        I won’t be saying anything about this, but I do want to make it clear that the first couple times were a lot more casual (and that’s on me for not taking it as seriously as I probably should have).

    2. Tempest*

      I mean, maybe not micromanage-y. My company does not allow personal cell phone use on company time, full stop. If this were my employee I would be pretty peeved.

    3. cncx*

      This is how I feel. I worked at a place where my boss was ok with some phone use but my immediate coworker had this weird hatred of phones out at work and while I didn’t agree and while she wasn’t my boss, I accepted that keeping my phone out away was part of the price of admission of working with her (I liked her otherwise and she was a good, helpful and competent colleague). I moved a bunch to Microsoft To Do and a notebook. Sometimes offices have weird culture stuff.

      1. allathian*

        I’d tell her to fuck off. If my manager said that, I wouldn’t like it but I’d comply, and polish my resume while I was at it, but a peer? Not a chance.

        Luckily my manager couldn’t care less as long as I get my work done.

  18. Metal Sonic*

    I agree- the overreliance on using one’s phone to even keep lists is just strange to me. I started working when smartphones were still a novelty and only a few people had them. The mindset toward phones has relaxed a lot since then, but I don’t think that is always a good thing. It can be very distracting, and honestly, I wish the professional norm could go back to “the phone gets put away when we’re working”. I do understand that the phone can be utilized as an essential tool in some industries (it happened in my industry because of the pandemic forcing us out of the office), but there are so many good reasons a manager would prefer for the distracting toy to be put away during working hours.

    1. I Have RBF*

      I keep my work stuff on my work calendar. While I may use my phone’s alarms for breaks and such, it doesn’t take long to set those.

      I also don’t do social media on my phone any more. It was hard to read/follow, and got to be annoying. I now do those on my home computer.

  19. lost academic*

    It’s a bad look and that’s a bigger reason at law firms then it is in other workspaces. Is it micromanagery? Sure. It’s inherently a bit micromanagery to manage optics at all. When coworkers see you on your phone at all, it’s (almost) always going to read in that split second as off task, ignoring priorities, etc. I am not at all saying that’s real or fair, but particularly as a law clerk it’s a meaningful point to consider.

    OP, don’t bring up the non-social media reasons you’re using your phone. The point is that you’re not using it for a work reason. You can definitely find other ways to do the things you find important on your regular computer – the ones you cited are quite frankly mirrored and synced with apps (to-do lists, food and water trackers) so there’s just no reason not to do it on your work computer unless of course they are blocked or you have a real problem with logging into a personal use website on a work device. Other than that, everyone so far pointed out all the reasonable workarounds you can use instead. Go on break and use your phone away from your desk when you must.

    1. Raida*

      I would bring up all the work related and focus tools actually.

      To tell their manager “I find these very helpful to getting all our work done. I am going to move to all computer-based tools. I do a,b,c,d,e. Any suggestions on tools we already have installed I should check out?” or if there’s someone else in the office who’s all over the variety of organisational tools that I should chat with.

      Firstly, it’s a work performance issue – so let them know these are necessary.
      Secondly, it’s about to change – so let them know there might be some growing pains and a learning curve.
      Thirdly, they are going to switch from a personal device to a work one – so now is a good time to find out if OP can get a work phone for these tools plus authenticator.

      Not telling your boss you *need* to use tools to get your work done isn’t gonna help with training, support, transparency, or showing you can take responsibility for your results.

  20. Nature Tour Guide Supervisor*

    I supervise a group of seasonal interpreters (tour guides) at a nature preserve (not US). I’ve known some supervisors in my field who ban cell phone use when out talking to the public, particularly if you work at a historic site (which makes sense, as the devices didn’t exist in the 1880s). The employer provides two-way radios for communicating with each other and in cases of emergencies. I and a few other supervisors at other sites don’t mind if staff have their phones on them – to use during breaks, or for emergencies where a radio doesn’t make sense. (Note that we can call our emergency dispatch on the radio.)

    I took it one step further and allowed them to use certain apps in front of the public – e.g., to identify flora/fauna, particularly birds, or a stargazing app to confirm the likelihood of aurora/if that satellite is the international space station or not. But what I told my staff was that if you were using the phone for that purpose, please narrate what you’re doing to the pubic so if someone is trying to engage with you, they don’t think you’re ignoring them (my staff run towards the young end and so are sometimes perceived to be inattentive teenagers who would pull out their phones in a pause in conversation). If you want to use your phone as an interpretive tool, tell visitors that’s what you’re doing. Like, “Good question! I’m going to do a quick search on an app called Merlin – can you describe what the bird looked like and what it was doing when you saw it, so we can find out together what species it was?”

  21. Seashell*

    Back in the olden days, we used to write stuff down on a piece of paper. Try that. You can put a daily reminder on your phone to remind you to add the stuff from the paper after work.

    The “checking on the friend” thing seems like a weak excuse to me. Whether they’re good, bad, or somewhere in the middle, there’s nothing you can do right then anyway. If they died in surgery, would you really want to know in the middle of the workday? It’s not like this is a death of an immediate family member or life partner where the boss would tell you to leave.

    If there’s something urgent you need to hear during the work day, tell your immediate family to call you on the landline. Otherwise, put the phone away unless you’re on an actual break.

    1. mreasy*

      How would you find out about the immediate family member, though, if you aren’t allowed to check your phone at all during the work day? Also, if my friend had surgery complications and needed my help, that is more important to me than work, and I want to know about it.

      1. Myrin*

        I know you’re using “you” in the sense of “general you” but for me personally, someone would call me on my work phone, since I do indeed not check my mobile at work at all and also mostly have it on silent.
        In fact, I specifically tell people who need to reach me during the day for a one-off personal reason (like someone calling back to confirm an appointment) to call my work number instead of my private one since I’ll immediately see the red blinking on my desk; this has only about a 50:50 likelihood of them actually doing that, though.

      2. Mo*

        My partner works in a building that is legally required to be cellphone-free. They just give anyone who might need it instructions on how to contact them in an emergency. OP could make sure family members have a work phone number saved in case of emergency.

        1. Amateur Linguist*

          I work for part of the UK government and have occasionally gone to the London HQ. The building wifi is locked down tight — personal phones can’t connect there, the phone signal is rubbish, and there are protocols in place to allow emergency calls to 999 but not anything else. Work phones are also locked down — I can, for instance, look up fire regulations on an approved website but not anything fun.

          They leave the essentials open — the ability to make emergency calls on a personal phone, the ability to use the work phone for work purposes — but I’d imagine in their case it’s much more security-minded than it is to stop government workers accessing social media.

          When I go there I take a good book for any downtime I have (conveniently enough there’s a big bookshop right on the concourse of the station my train pulls into with a good range of literary highlights). It’s quite refreshing to have a screen break.

    2. RussianInTexas*

      I work from home and don’t have a landline. My work number is google voice which is on my cell phone. Sorry. My cell phone is next to me on my desk.
      In addition, I never gave my actual office number to my family when I was in the office. Why, they have my cell phone? Which is for personal stuff. Double for things like appointments, I don’t need my doctor calling my office.

    3. Petty Patty*

      This seems a little heartless, given that OP updated above that the friend passed away a couple of days later and their emotions were running high when they wrote in.

    4. Jazzy*

      I mean if the situation turns bad and they only have a few hours left or a day or two… I’d want to know immediately so I could go see them for the last time. Text is the easiest, quickest way for everyone. Also I’m sick of people disrespecting friendship like this, as if you can’t be just as close with a friend as you are with family or partner. Especially when it’s family friends. Like, you don’t get to decide for other people what kind of relationship is meaningful to them.

  22. Adultier Adult*

    Yeah– I would have been more on the “your manager is being micro managy”
    but since you’ve already been talked to about it & you are having to be told again, this tells me that it is much more of a distraction that you are admitting (or than you realize)– none of those are huge reasons to need your phone.

  23. MaggieLucyDaisy*

    I had a boss like this who hated personal phone use at work, but he wasn’t in charge of the worst offenders, so he would yell at me instead (eyeroll). He also didn’t like us to talk to each other in person, so we went to using our chat app at the time, so it’s like sort of the old butts in seats adage–as long as he didn’t see it happening, there was no problem. So I’m a strong proponent of using the bathroom a lot and doing your phone use in there–if getting a new job isn’t an option right now.

    1. Runner girl*

      Getting a new job because you don’t like someone telling you that you can’t so something you want to do? I hate to tell you that’s going to eventually happen in any and every job. You need to decide if what you want to do is worth quitting your job for. And I would be very careful in deciding what is worth it and what isn’t in this current job market. (Hint: it’s not good and it’s not looking like is going to change in the near or even not near future)

      1. OP Here*

        Would I look for a new job because my boss told me I couldn’t use my phone at work? No, absolutely not.

        Would I look because this is indicative of a larger problem with boss being micromanager-y about other stuff to both myself and coworkers who aren’t even in our department (and so she’s not their boss)? Yes. (I wouldn’t say that to anyone, ofc, but it would be a reason for me personally.)

  24. Not on board*

    Yeah, this workplace is being very micro-managey. It’s especially galling when you consider that they require you to use your personal cellphone for 2F verification.

    That being said, as others have said, there are work arounds.
    1. use your computer for reminders and to-do lists
    2. use a note pad for your water intake or even for to-do lists
    3. use your phone in the bathroom so it’s not visible

    1. Pretty as a Princess too tired for mediocre men*

      Agree, I do think that if they are using it for 2F the rest is annoying, but it’s clearly the office policy. I don’t like micromanagey approaches but also this is in fact extremely easy to comply with in order to perform the functions of the employee’s job. It’s not a burden on them to do their job under these rules. OP is actually *going out of their way* to use their personal device to manage work things (to do list/reminders) when they know that the policy is not to use the personal device. Why *create* that situation for yourself, then?

      No workplace is perfect and there are policies at my own job too that I do not appreciate or enjoy, but I don’t *structure my job specifically so that I am in non-compliance.* These things are not reasons that add up to me wanting to leave my job, and do not pose an ethical dilemma, and so I comply with the policies.

      There are many secure work environments where personal electronic devices aren’t even allowed into the office (or the building!). The people that work in these environments manage to keep their appointments and manage their to do lists. And the ones that track of the number of glasses of water they drink every day and track their macros manage to do that too.

      1. Pretty as a Princess too tired for mediocre men*

        (And I should add that I do say this fully cognizant that I am someone with ADHD, etc, and my organization system may be different from someone else’s. But if the OP were in a situation where there was a NEED specifically for using the phone, that’s where you are in accommodation territory in the face of this workplace policy. OP hasn’t conveyed that, so I am going on the information they gave.)

  25. OP Here*

    Hi everyone! As I am sure you can tell, I am the OP on this question.

    Since I wrote in to Alison a few weeks ago (could be longer, time has no meaning), I’ve downloaded the to-do app to my work computer and am using the desktop apps and their reminders instead of relying on my phone. I’ve also used my watch for things like tracking water intake. Food tracking I’ve been trying to do on my breaks, but I would love paper suggestions for that!

    Since I’ve found other options, I don’t know that I’ll be talking to my boss, but I do really appreciate Alison’s script! And her taking the time to answer in the first place.

    I mostly am making this comment because I do really appreciate the validation that my boss is micromanaging. This phone usage thing is a relatively small thing compared to other stuff she’s done (to me and other people who don’t even work with or under her), but it tracks.

    1. Banana Pyjamas*

      I think it’s reasonable to ask your boss to allow food tracking on your phone because it’s for medical reasons. It’s good that you switched resources for everything else though, that was really the best course of action.

    2. Pretty as a Princess too tired for mediocre men*

      Hi OP – this is a nice update. If you have not done so, I would make sure that your download of the to-do app is consistent with your employer’s IT & cybersecurity policies.

      1. OP Here*

        I actually needed IT to login with their admin credits to download this app in the first place, so we are all good there!

    3. Wayward Sun*

      My advice for anything paper is to splurge on a nice paper journal in a format you like, and a nice pen you really like. If the experience of writing it in is nice you’ll be more likely to use it.

      I actually started using paper to-do lists and calendars in my IT job because I found the act of writing the information down helped me remember it in a way that typing it didn’t.

      1. Amateur Linguist*

        I love my bullet journals for work. I’m a sucker for coloured pens, stickers and goofy ways of writing the date and heading, and it’s great having a reason to use one again (since I rendered my school diary unusable for all the pictures and logos and stuff I stuck to it). My colleague got a dachshund pup and showed her off on Teams and by the next week I had dachshund stickers from the pound shop…

      2. Agent Diane*

        I am 100% this: the act of writing, by hand, helps it stay in my head. I put it down to how I was taught to learn at school. I also like it as it means it always works whereas when I forget to charge my phone, all my notes on it are unavailable.

        I’m getting better at using OneNote over paper notes for work but my personal to do list is always in my bullet journal.

    4. Jules the 3rd*

      I used DietMinder to track calories / carbs / exercise. I liked it because it held most of the categories I wanted (calories / fat / carb / fiber / protein) and a couple of spare columns. I did not like that I had to look up all calories separately, but that really needed an app.

      The Clever Fox line of journals looks pretty well organized too, with a little more bling like stickers. I didn’t see any ‘basic calorie’ reference pages in there either (I’m just thinking one page w/ common produce like apples / bananas / potatoes, baked).

      If I were doing calorie counting for weight loss again, I’d probably make a little spreadsheet of likely produce and paste it in the cover or something.

      Good luck on all fronts!
      – Yes, this is micromanaging and overdone
      – Calorie counting was very effective for me; took off 20 lbs over 6mo and kept them off for 7 years, until I had a kid. I hope you get where you want to be!

    5. KaraokeGirl*

      How about this, you bring a tablet and keep it handy at your desk for those alerts or to-do-lists (then you don’t have to deal with opening and closing extra tabs on your work computer) . I bet a tablet wouldn’t even really be noticed, it’s phone use that seems to set them off. (And arguably for good reason, although they certainly sound inflexible and uptight.)

  26. Geranium Now*

    Hello! Real lawyer here. Yes, your office is being micromanage-y. But also your office has rules and you can do all the things you mentioned without using your phone. Without knowing more, perhaps there are security or confidentiality issues.

    Honestly, I read the headline and expected this to be about needing to track insulin/blood sugar levels with your phone. If that was the case, that would be entirely reasonable and you’d discuss it with your boss. What you describe, though, is not that and can be done in other ways.

  27. NCA*

    I’m a bit surprised by the comments here being so against the writer’s organization system. Different people have different systems that work for them and don’t for others. I know for me, personally, any physically written form of an organization system just does. not. work. I’ll lose the item asap, or it’ll be out of reach at a crucial moment, or or or. (Yes, I’m ADHD, but that’s not the point here). I personally use a digital system that I can access from multiple devices. This user has a system on their phone. They may need to see if they can adjust their processes to work within systems their boss prefers, but that doesn’t make their phone system /bad/ or a sign of phone addiction. Just potentially mismatched to their boss’s.

    1. OP Here*

      “This user has a system on their phone. They may need to see if they can adjust their processes to work within systems their boss prefers, but that doesn’t make their phone system /bad/ or a sign of phone addiction. Just potentially mismatched to their boss’s.”

      Thank you for this comment. :)

    2. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      They just need to adjust their timing so they use their phone to check private stuff during breaks, but move work stuff to work devices.

    3. Jules the 3rd*

      Or mismatched to their *actual needs*. If OP is away from her desk a lot, phone reminders make *much* more sense than computer reminders.

      1. OP Here*

        I used to be away from my desk a lot more than I am currently, so in the past, yes I did rely on my phone a lot more just because it was all I had. But now I am at my desk more, and I also have a watch that could get the reminders if needed.

    4. Parrhesia25*

      I thought some of the responses were a little out touch. I wonder if there is a generation gap involved – the assumption that the only reason an employee would be on their phone is because they were playing games or watching videos seems out-of-date. I would recommend that the work stuff be moved to a work computer, but the demand that the OP never take a personal call or text or quickly update a personal habit tracking app is over-the-top.

      And the OP commented that they had to get special permission to get a to-do list tracking app added to their computer tells me a lot. Just because desktop apps are available doesn’t mean that the OP would have access to them. Or wouldn’t be criticized for using them by their boss.

      2. GrooveBat*

        I do think there’s a generation gap at work here, but not the way you’ve laid it out. For me, it’s not so much “OP will use her phone for games and videos, therefore she should not use it at all” and more “OP has lots of options for food tracking, reminders, and other apps that AREN’T on their phone and it’s kind of odd to me, as an older person, to be so dependent on one device.”

        1. You Know Who*

          I find this hilarious because I regularly see people well over retirement age out and about with their phones in their faces, watching videos or on speaker-phone at top volume. Consider the last time you were in a waiting room… who was it yelling their SSN or credit card number or personal health issues into their phone? I assure you it wasn’t A Youth. I literally watched a guy walk into traffic and almost get run over because he was watching a video on his phone the other day. He was definitely over 70.

      3. Purple stapler*

        Add a to do list app? My office uses MS365 and the Tasks option is there in the sidebar menu on Outlook.

    5. Torts Illustrated*

      I agree! I’m also a little surprised that routing everything to a work computer is being presented as the morally superior option. For work related to-do lists, I can maybe understand, but there are plenty of reasons why putting private (in the non-work sense of the word) communications or personal health info of any kind on a work computer might not be the better option.

  28. June*

    You should be able to check your phone very quickly once every couple of hours to make sure everything’s OK with family. That’s not excessive. I recall a micro manager from years ago on her first day telling me I needed to put my phone away off my desk. I laughed and said I outrank you lol.

    1. mreasy*

      Yeah the folks who are acting like this is totally out of line are being unrealistic, in my view. Back in the day, if one of our loved ones was rushed to the hospital, we may not know until the end of the workday. Or, maybe our work phone was on their emergency contact list. But now, the only way we can find out if something important has happened – something more important than work – is on those phones. Not checking at all during the day is totally, totally unreasonable.

      1. Darcy Mae*

        It is totally unreasonable if a person is not allowed to check their phone during the day ever, from any location.

        Requiring that phone use happen during breaks or lunchtime is reasonable. It’s also reasonable to require that the checking happen at a particular location in the building (e.g. not your work location).

        Would I set up rules no-phones-in-public view-EVER rules where I work now? No. Would I set up rules like this if I were a store manager at Target, or running a team of security guards, or front line workers at a courthouse? Yes I would, because optics matter.

        1. mbs001*

          Perhaps in your view, it’s unreasonable to have the policy of no personal phone use while working but unless it’s your firm, not your call. Unless needed for work, phones are a distraction and one “quick” check is never the case. Hearing (or feeling) text messages come in is a mental distraction even if the worker doesn’t look at the message right away. So barring an emergency which you should notify your boss about, a no personal phone policy can, and has, worked very well in many companies. Heck, just look at the success the schools that banned cell phones are having. Kids are engaging again and doing the work. Hmmm, maybe they’re on to something.

          1. JelloStapler*

            “So barring an emergency which you should notify your boss about”… Oh, you can plan ahead for emergencies to let your boss know you’ll have one and need your phone? Or do you mean if there is a current situation going on where you’ll need ot check in?

            We can have ours, and if the person is doing their job (and most of us are, and those who are not are not because of a phone but because of a lack of competency)- it’s never been a problem. So a blanket “it never works” is no better argument than “it always does”.

            I actually agree with the school ban on phones (both of my kids’ schools do this – and the schools have said it’s made a difference). Completely different situation, though. Children, not adults. School format is different.

  29. Antigone*

    This doesn’t seem like something worth the capital pushback would take, honestly. Unless the health needs are stuff that really can’t be handled with paper or work apps – say, checking a glucose monitor – it’s time to come up with systems that use your work tools for work, and save the personal phone use for breaks. If you don’t have work tools adequate to the task of tracking your tasks and reminders, that’s where I would focus with your manager – can they help you fill that gap, either by making new tools available to you or helping you find better ways to use what you have?

    For things like the friend, I think it’s a “ask mom to call in event of a true emergency update, giving boss an heads up that a friend is in hospital and may call in event of an emergency, and otherwise check in at lunchtime” situation.

    But overall yeah, this is an awfully micromanagery culture and if that extends to more things than phone use, it might not be a place someone like you (or I!) would thrive. Longterm, if being trusted with using your best judgment on this kind of thing it’s important to you, another workplace might suit you better.

  30. The Baconing*

    For work related reminders, LW should be using work applications. Outlook and Google both have alerts for the purpose, and it is better to use work things for work things.

    All the other tracking can be done on paper and transferred later, which is inconvenient but would put LW in compliance.

    I guess what I’m saying here is that I don’t fully understand the issue LW is having with not using their phone.

  31. Coverage Associate*

    My firm’s cybersecurity standards require 2FA at least twice a day, sometimes more often if I worked in more than one place or had an unusual workflow. My current firm isn’t as strict about personal phone use by hourly staff during work hours as some of my past firms. They understand that allowing us to use our personal phones is part of the trade off of keeping our work phones so strictly for work. (All employees get a work phone, and they are very strict about what goes on them.)

    But other firms have been very strict about personal communications during work hours, especially for non exempt employees, and sometimes even for junior attorneys. I agree it is old fashioned and micro managing, but it definitely can still be the culture at some firms.

    As mentioned and as LW did, I would move everything work related to a work device. Your work device can definitely schedule reminders and tasks and track to-do lists.

    In the past, I have even been able to send calendar entries between my personal and work devices for things like dental appointments during the work day, but my current firm’s cybersecurity doesn’t allow that. But it might be an option for LW.

    The one exception of putting everything on the work computer, which I realize isn’t LW’s issue, but can be an issue, is if you’re away from your work computer a lot of the time, so you wouldn’t see or hear a reminder from it, but would from a phone in your pocket. I don’t know if there are devices that are basically just the timer and calendar features of a smartphone, but there are timers that you can clip on your belt. I hear about them most often for cooking. You put the roast in and set the timer to check on it, and if the timer is on your belt you don’t have to be near the kitchen. Also in commercial kitchens where lots of people are all tracking different dishes, no “Is that my timer?” if everyone has their own. Anyway, the simple ones are very inexpensive, and the firm might pay for it if hypothetical LW had a job that was both at a desk and roaming the office.

  32. LACPA*

    I think OP should find alternates to using their phone for anything work related. To-do list software exists in more forms than that for a smart phone. The phone should live in a drawer or purse, sound off, until lunch and other breaks.

  33. Nomic*

    I have to admit I’m a bit shocked at the number of comments here along the lines of, “If you use your personal phone at all during work you are wasting company time, micromanagement is good.”

    Which, I dunno, because looking at the time stamps on these comments they appear to be during working hours, so ?

    1. GrooveBat*

      I haven’t seen any comments that claim “micromanagement is good,” nor have I seen many that claim OP is “wasting company time.”

      The comments I’ve seen are more like, “This sucks, but that’s the company culture so here are some workarounds.”

    2. I Have RBF*

      LOL. Yeah, I noticed that too.

      It sometimes takes me hours to type in a comment, because work comes first during work hours. But I don’t read this site on my phone, either.

    3. Mabby*

      The timestamp can be misleading as it shows as the time in the time zone that I assume is assigned to this site (I’m sure that isn’t the right terminology but whatever). I’m in the UK. It’s 4:47 am here which won’t be the timestamp when I submit this.

      1. Amateur Linguist*

        Ditto. The 11am posts for AAM go up at 4pm our time. I don’t generally see them until after I clock off for the day.

        Also, the issue is one on which a wide range of views are permissible. It’s more interesting to see variety of professional opinion here — there are enough echo chambers as it is.

  34. CubeFarmer*

    Find alternatives to doing these things on your phone. You’ve already been warned about phone usage more than once so this is a problem. It seems like your question is, “I know I shouldn’t be doing this thing at work, but I still do thing thing. How much can I get away with doing this thing, when it’s really important to me that I keep doing it?”

    Get a to-do app that goes on your computer. Get your calendars to sync to your phone. Text in the bathroom on your breaks.

  35. duh*

    This is a stupid ban but the obvious solution to setting reminders is just to use the Calendar function in Outlook.

  36. MaryWinchester1967*

    Personally I try not to do any work on my personal device. I don’t check work emails, handle conference calls, create to-do lists, use the teams app, etc. This draws a very firm line – work cannot contact me outside of my working hours. The only exceptions I will make are when I’m working on a project and go-live has a schedule that can change. Then I will check emails on my personal device.

    Personally I think it’s absurd that you’re getting dinged for checking a text every so often. But if they are going to have that policy, then go full compliance. If your manager calls or texts you after hours, don’t answer and later explain that you understood that you are not to use your phone for work, per policy. You’re just trying to follow policy after all.

  37. Daria grace*

    You really shouldn’t be having to get a second device for to get around not being allowed such reasonable phone use, but if you’d also benefit from it outside work a smart watch might be worth considering. I find my Apple Watch great for keeping track of alarms and reminders without having to be picking up my phone

    1. rebelwithmouseyhair*

      I’m really not sure that the optics are any better. The watch is an extension of the phone and I would be just as annoyed (if I were OP’s manager) to see them looking at that as looking at their phone.
      OP should move all work-related stuff to her laptop. Texting her mother should wait for lunch break, unless it’s a dire emergency involving an immediate family member.
      Tracking water consumption: there are bottles that show how much water is left, no need for electronics. Tracking food sensitivities: OP can write on paper and update on her app at home.

      OP and you might think her phone use is reasonable but they’ve been caught and upbraided several times. And I don’t see the difference between texting back and forth with your mother and playing a game, you’re still not working and you’re not even giving an appearance of working. If OP is allowed to text her mother, others will follow suit and suddenly intern productivity will plummet.

  38. Ami*

    I disagree with this advice. The boss has spoken with OP multiple times telling them not to be on their phone at their desk. It doesn’t really matter if her reasons are optics, culture, or micromanaging, she’s told OP what she wants. OP is in a bad place to push back after being told to stop twice; it’s going to take political capital and credibility that it doesn’t sound like she has with the boss yet.
    If this were a case like the person who used a phone app to control their insulin pump then I would say go for it, but it’s not. The functionality can be replicated on other devices, and if the boss is as strict as she sounds then that’s what she’s going to say. Use the work computer for setting up alarms and reminders, and write down food and hydration in a notebook and transfer the information to your app at lunch or after work.

  39. Coin_Operated*

    You could frame the health stuff as a medical accommodation. My phone tracks some crucial health data I was using for my heart health that I was working with my DR, and while I was at a job that didn’t micromanage phone use at the time, I certainly would have done so if I needed to. It really did help.

  40. Alisha*

    Maybe move your to-do list to your work computer, and go to the restroom to use your phone for personal reasons. I’ve been in the same kind of situation and trying to negotiate on a office policy didn’t work out in my case.

  41. Raida*

    I would get a cradle/dock for the phone so that it is clearly functioning as a checklist, etc
    And also so that you aren’t looking *down* at it, which is very obvious.

    If it is set up like a second/third screen it sort of justifies it as just part of your workspace.

    Now that you’ve been told a couple of times, it will be all the more important that you are not *looking like* you’re on your phone IE ‘caught using it’

    Think of it like driving a car – having your phone in your lap or the cup holder is very different to having it up as a GPS at the level your eyes are supposed to be in.

  42. Shadow Cat*

    Maybe I’m old, but I definitely think cell phones are distracting. No matter what productivity measures you put in place. I work from home so no one is watching me but I still keep my cell phone in my kitchen while I’m working. When I go in there to grab water, a snack, or lunch (every 2-3 hours) I do a quick check of the phone. If it sat on my desk with me I’d probably be checking it 15 times an hour. My work requires deep focus and my stupid dopamine phone is too tempting. Thousands and thousands of geniuses have spent the last couple of decades making this device addictive. Easier to banish it. I get where your employers are coming from. You can say all you want you’re only using it for “productive” things, but micro tracking your water and texting your mom ain’t exactly work honey.

    Put it in your purse, and check your phone in the bathroom if you can’t wait until lunch to fuss with my fitness pal. You can always just write down stuff on a (gasp) piece of a paper to remember it. So mean of your boss to want you to focus on work.

  43. Doctor What*

    I’m an old person, so I’m gonna make a late 1900s suggestion for the OP. In order to comply with the no phone usage during the work day, you could try tracking things on paper? I have a dot journal I keep lists and track of things. OP could track things in the journal and then add the info to the apps later?

  44. Cecilia*

    If you’ve already been spoken to about this multiple times, pushing back is a bad idea and will just annoy your boss further. You just need to follow the policy and find alternatives to your phone, even if it seems unreasonable.

  45. rebelwithmouseyhair*

    This might be my age showing but I find it very annoying to see people constantly on their phones. We all managed just fine without phones last century. At work, the Venn diagram of good and bad employees (especially interns) and those who used their phone and those who didn’t had a 100% overlap.

    Thing is when you’re on your phone people just can’t tell if you’re doing something important or fooling about. Most colleagues will assume the worst. Directors are likely to be boomers like me with the same attitude to phone usage.

    If you get away with it, others will follow suit. Next thing you know, none of the interns are finishing their work on time because they’re playing some game together on their phones.

    You don’t mention any life-critical things that warrant phone usage.

    -Asking your mother about a hospitalised friend can and should wait until you’re at home. It’s not like you can do anything to save their life right?
    -Your to-do list for work should be on your work laptop.
    -Health apps: you don’t mention a worrisome health condition, like diabetes or a life-threatening allergy. If you’re just tracking food to see what causes an allergic rash, you can make notes on paper to update it once you’re at home. Using paper looks professional (maybe just a bit dated, but boomers aren’t going to judge you for it).
    -Tracking water consumption? There are bottles with markings on them to show how much is left, why not buy one of them? Personally, I check on *how my body is feeling*, no need for an app, and if I really don’t remember how much water I have had, I’ll just have another glass, or a cup of herbal tea, to see if it makes me feel better (it usually does because Water Always Helps).
    -Reminders of meetings should be on your laptop.

  46. Harper*

    I could not work in a place where quick, occasional phone use would get me a “talking to”. This is weird and not the norm in most offices, OP. You’re not doing anything wrong. Yeah, you have to follow the rule, but know that the rule is weird and unreasonable.

    1. OP Here*

      thank you. :) I think part of why this has been so hard for me to adapt to was because I’ve mostly worked at public facing jobs where we did interact with members of the public and we were still allowed phones. obviously we still had to be aware and not actively ignore anyone, but none of my other jobs have been this strict.

      1. Monty*

        “none of my other jobs have been this strict”

        Yeah, your boss is obsessive and emotionally immature, but sadly a lot of law firms are like this.

  47. DramaQ*

    I’ve worked and my husband has worked in multiple companies that do not allow cell phones on the floor/during work hours. It is what it is. If you had a health condition that the phone helped control or it was a direct relative in the hospital I would argue that is worth spending the capital to keep using your phone.

    I’m not really supposed to be on my phone at work but I could have it with me when my mother was in the hospital and when I was trying to set up my grandmother’s Medicaid acting as her POA.

    They would not have been understanding if it was a friend and even with those two very valid reasons I did get chastised for being on the phone almost a full 8 hours trying to chase down my grandfather’s military discharge papers.

    I was in a bind that day because I was blindsided by the request and of course nobody answered their phones in a timely fashion. I took the hit from my boss and made sure afterwards to not be seen near my phone for several days.

    But you are just tracking your food and water intake. There is no reason you can’t write that down in a journal during the day. You will live using a pen and paper just like we old farts did before the invention of apps. You can enter the information into your app when you get home. Bonus is it looks like you are “working” when you are doing because people tend to look more favorably on you at your desk writing than scrolling a phone.

    Use your outlook calendar. You can set meetings or notices to private so your boss does not know what you are putting on there. You can set it to give you as many reminders as needed. Again you don’t NEED your phone to keep track of meetings there are other applications out there that serve the same purpose and will fulfill your boss’s wish you not be on your phone.

    I get we are highly dependent on our phones nowadays but this is something your boss has now talked to you multiple times about. You are heading towards a PIP if you insist on continuing to do so. No matter how much you rationalize it your boss considers any time on your phone too much time and she’s the one that controls your employment.

    So you need to play the game. If being able to use your phone is a deal breaker for you then you need to start looking for another position elsewhere and ask upfront about cell phone use policies in interviews.

    1. rebelwithmouseyhair*

      If you spent 8 hours looking for family documents, you weren’t doing your work during that time, it would have been better to take the day off. I understand that you didn’t realise when you started looking that it would take you eight hours. If I found myself in that situation I’d have given up after half an hour and decided to do it outside of work time because I’m being paid to work.
      That said, you make much the same suggestions as me.

  48. DramaQ*

    I was doing work as I went because half of that time was spent on hold. I just was not as efficient as I usually am.

    In hindsight I should have taken the day off but I was completely overwhelmed both by the process and by my workload. I thought I could try to do both. I was in WAY over my head.

    Which is why I said even though my boss was patient with me about needing to be on my phone she was correct to chastise me about that day even though it really embarrassed and upset me at the time. Fortunately I had enough capital that while it bruised me keeping my head down made it blow over pretty quickly.

    My point was even if it is okay to use it sometimes your boss can decide it’s not. When they decide no phone it is no phone.

  49. Shiny Happy Person*

    In this day and age it seems wild to ban phone use. I generally keep my personal phone out of my own sight (in another room when I’m at home) because it is full of distractions. But even then, everything from calendars to notes to yes the occasional text while I’m eating my lunch or whatever seems *so* normal to me.

    If someone I managed wasn’t performing or was scrolling inappropriately, I’d address on a case by case basis with the individual. And if it was someone I didn’t manage but it impacted work in a way that had an effect on me, I’d bring it up, but even then it would be about the impact.

    A blanket ban just feels so out of touch with what phones are now.

    How do other colleagues feel about it?

Comments are closed.