a colleague is harassing female coworkers, and the person I reported it to didn’t seem too concerned

by Alison Green on September 16, 2025

A reader writes:

I am a supervisor for a small-ish organization with very few male employees. “Amy” started working here in January, but does not report to me. Earlier this week she asked if she could talk to me, and told me that one of the men in her department was making her very uncomfortable. Since she started working here, “Ben” makes comments to her about how beautiful she is, saying things like, “I’m sorry for staring at you. You’re just so beautiful.” She said she’s attempted to make small talk with him in the hopes that as he got to know her, he would talk to her about other things.

Apparently things escalated two nights ago as everyone was leaving work. Ben told Amy she looked like one of his friends from college, and could he take Amy’s picture to show his friend? Amy felt uncomfortable but let him take the picture. However, the other women she walked out with said that was really weird behavior and over the next couple of days encouraged her to talk to me. After Amy told me about her experience with Ben, another employee (who does report to me, and who was one of the women who told Amy to talk to me) told me he also made an inappropriate comment to her about how “hot” her body looked in a dress she was wearing.

Amy’s supervisor and the director were both out that day, but the next morning I told them about both women’s interactions with Ben. To my surprise, the director, “Clara,” pretty much blew it off. She said that Ben has ADHD, which makes his social interactions awkward, and she was sure he didn’t mean anything. I said regardless, he couldn’t make those comments to his coworkers and either the director or his supervisor needed to tell him so. Clara said she would talk to him. (I want to point out that Clara is younger than I am, so this isn’t a case of an older woman not taking harassment seriously. Furthermore, she has been very good about addressing harassment from the public towards any of our employees. Also, this is not a case of Ben awkwardly flirting. He’s married and tells people “happily” so, and both women who reported this behavior are also married.)

So what is my role now? Do I follow up with Clara to make sure she talked to Ben? Should I follow up with Amy, or ask Clara to follow up with her? I feel like I was entrusted with making this a safe work environment for Amy, and potentially other young women, and I don’t know where to go from here. I want to reassure her that reporting Ben’s behavior was the right thing to do and make sure Ben doesn’t continue to say things like this to his coworkers.

ADHD doesn’t cause people to sexually harass their coworkers. Clara’s assertion is ridiculous — and pretty insulting to people with ADHD.

What’s more, even if Ben did have some explanation for why he struggled with social norms, it wouldn’t mean that he should be allowed to make inappropriate comments to colleagues and everyone would just have to be understanding. In fact, it wouldn’t change anything about the way the organization needed to proceed; both legally and ethically, they’d still need to tell him to cut it out.

Employers have a legal obligation to intervene when employees are being sexually harassed. Now that Ben’s behavior has been reported, your organization is opening itself to legal liability if it doesn’t act.

Do you have an HR department? If so, skip over Clara and go to them. Relay what was reported to you, and share your concern that it’s not being addressed sufficiently.

If you don’t have HR, go to the head of the organization since it’s small. If that’s Clara … well, that’s not good, but then you’d need to go back to her and say, “I thought more about our conversation, and I want to be sure we’re making it clear to Ben that he cannot make any more of these comments to employees, period. What Amy and Jane relayed qualifies under the law as a report of sexual harassment, which makes us legally obligated to investigate and ensure it stops.”

And yes, someone should follow up with Amy and the other woman who complained, to let them know it’s been addressed and to tell them exactly how to report it if the behavior doesn’t stop. But of course, that needs to be true — so Clara or someone needs to actually handle this first.

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{ 259 comments }

{ 259 comments… read them below }

  1. Anonym*

    Hi, fellow ADHD person here, sorry for shouting but SEXUAL HARASSMENT IS NOT A REASONABLE ACCOMODATION, and is not caused by ADHD.

    2. Wearing the pants of a banana*

      Brb, I need to cross-stitch “sexual harassment is not a reasonable accommodation” on a sampler.

    3. Caffeine Monkey*

      Also an ADHD person. Also have never sexually harassed anybody. Because that is not a symptom of ADHD.

    4. Observer*

      I don’t have ADD / ADHD but I do know a number of people who do.

      And, you are so, so, SOOOOOO right. I gasped that Clara actually said that.

    5. Audrey Puffins*

      Hello, just wanted to add mine to the presumably many voices that are coming here to say “I have ADHD and I do not sexually harass people”. Your neurodivergence is NOT an excuse for your bad behaviour

    6. LadyMTL*

      Clara was practically saying “oh sure he harassed her but what can you do? He has ADHD.” I mean…what??

      It reminds me of back in the day when Roseanne was saying all of those racist things and she blamed it on her sleeping pills, and everyone was like yeah no a sleeping pill doesn’t make you racist. ADHD doesn’t make people want to sexually harass anyone!

      1. Skippy*

        100% agree! And also why is Clara giving other people the harasser’s private medical information? I also have ADHD, and I’m sensitive about people just casually telling others when it’s none of their business. And, since ADHD isn’t related to the guy’s sexual harassment, it didn’t need to come into the conversation at all.

    8. RagingADHD*

      Absolutely.

      The only way this is remotely connected to ADHD is via lack of impulse control. But having problems with impulse control doesn’t mean you get a pass for driving recklessly or shoplifting, and it certainly doesn’t mean you get a pass for sexual harassment. It’s exactly the same level of bad behavior as if anyone else did it.

      But here’s the thing – ADHD may lower your inhibition to shoplifting, but it doesn’t magically *make* you want to steal things if you are not inclined to steal things. And it doesn’t magically make someone consider their coworkers as eye candy if they didn’t already think that way.

      1. LaminarFlow*

        Fellow ADHD’er here, and I came to the comments to say this!

        I very much hope that Clara meant that he has poor impulse control. But, poor impulse control is for him to figure out, without harassing anyone.

      2. shedubba*

        This was my thought. I have ADHD, as does my daughter and it is, at best, an explanation, not an excuse. Having ADHD may mean we have to work harder to control our impulses, but we still have to control them. I can’t fail to pick up my preschooler from school because I decided to go shopping instead. I can’t tell my boss I failed to file our taxes because my brain weasels decided I needed to research teacups instead. At least not without serious repercussions. And if the impulse he’s failing to control is “sexually harassing women”, that’s a lesson he should have learned well before entering the adult world.

        1. Queer femme with ADHD*

          Also the comments Ben is making to these women don’t really sound impulsive to me. “You look like me friend, let me take a picture to show her” feels quite intentional. And then taking the picture?

          Everyone is different but this certainly doesn’t fit my own experience of impulse control issues.

      3. Tiredtoday*

        I wondered whether she just used the first excuse that came to mind so she wouldn’t have to act. If she truly believes this nonsense, that’s even worse of course.
        Someone with impulse control issues might be more likely to blurt something out in the moment, but what they blurt out is still gonna be shaped by their beliefs and they can in fact reflect on those and change at least somewhat how they act on those.

        1. Mipshaster*

          Yeah. Also, poor impulse control isn’t the same as no impulse control. It’s harder maybe, but if he genuinely can’t control his sexually harassing behaviour then he can’t really be allowed to work with other people. And ftr I doubt he’s not able to control himself. He just doesn’t want to.

        2. Takki*

          When I saw Clara’s response, my first thought is Clara’s either related to or sleeping with (or maybe both?) Ben.

      4. Emily Byrd Starr*

        I think it’s perfectly okay to find your co-workers attractive and even to be sexually attracted to them, as long as you do not act on your attraction in an inappropriate way.

    9. Beany*

      I don’t even know how Clara got there. Some types of neurodivergence are associated with difficulty in reading social cues — which this goes way beyond anyway — but ADHD isn’t one of them (crappy work prioritization and timekeeping, however …)

      //fellow ADHDer

      2. Emily Byrd Starr*

        I have not only ADHD but also non-verbal learning disorder, which means that I often don’t understand anything but 100% direct verbal communication. Many autistic people also have difficulty understanding non-verbal communication. For instance, it is very common for a neurodivergent to ask a neurotypical out, and then the NT communicates that they aren’t interested by using subtle hints and other non-verbal communication that our brains aren’t wired to understand. For instance, the ND asks the NT out, and the NT says “Maybe later,” when they really mean “no,” and the ND literally believes that the NT gave them permission to ask them out another time. Then the NT feels that the ND is sexually harassing them.

        However, this is CLEARLY not the case here. Ben isn’t failing to read Amy’s nonverbal hints that she’s not interested. He is deliberately saying inappropriate sexual things that anyone 12 and over knows is not okay to say to a coworker. He should not blame this on his neurodivergence. He’s making all of us ND’s look bad.

    10. A. Lab Rabbit*

      Also ADHD, and omg someone should check to see if Clara bumped her head because this is not a normal thing to say at all.

    11. daffodil*

      ADHD is so common! can you imagine the chaos if every ADHDer was also a sexual harasser? Absolutely ridiculous.

    14. I WORKED on a Hellmouth*

      Yeah, I have ADHD and I am just gobsmacked that anyone would blame blatant sexual harassment on it. It doesn’t make sexually harassing someone okay. It also doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re socially awkward. Wtf, Clara?! Into the sun with her.

    16. Meep*

      +1

      I am honestly so tired of us as a society using ADHD and autism as a shield for DETREMENTAL anti-social behavior in general. It may explain jerk behavior, but it doesn’t excuse it. Not after someone tells you the behavior is harmful.

    17. Nobby Nobbs*

      Nobody ever seems to worry about whether the victim has ADHD, either, which sucks because somebody who already feels like they’re annoying/an imposition/on trial socially is more likely to tolerate bad behavior instead of reporting it compared to a neurotypical.

    18. Pumpkinn*

      I have adhd and firstly, wtf omg and many other shocked acronyms.

      Secondly, has anyone ever heard of ADHD being used as an excuse for this kind of behaviour before? I’ve heard it, or similar vibes, about autism many times, but never ADHD!

      1. anononon*

        Neither have I. Someone clearly absorbed exactly the wrong idea from “ADHD and autism share some symptoms, are frequently comorbid, and are underdiagnosed in similar populations.”

        (It’s not a coincidence that the people who are most likely to be diagnosed at a young age are also most likely to be given a lot more grace with anything perceived as a behavioral issue.)

        1. I&I*

          And also possibly ‘People with disabilities can sue you if you say ANYTHING about ANYTHING they do and the world will just go along with it.’ Which is another bit of ableist bs.

    20. Quoth the Raven*

      Yet another voice in the choir with ADHD here, and even when I fail to control my impulses, these are related to like, buying something I don’t need or eating something just for the sake of eating it, and never to harassing or insulting others. Ever.

    22. ElliottRook*

      Autistic married to an ADHDer here, and ugh THIS. It’s so infantilizing to assume we need to be handled with kid gloves in the workplace. We might need social “rules” put into words for us (and I think that’s truer of autistics than ADHD folks like the potential one in the letter anyway) but that does not mean we can’t FOLLOW those rules!

      (Also…how open is Ben with his diagnosis and was that an okay thing for Clara to share?? She may be in more hot water than just blowing off the sexual harassment if that was confidential. HIPAA or other privacy laws could be in play around that?)

    23. I Have RBF*

      This!!

      I have ADHD, and I do not sexually harass people.

      ADHD does not cause people to sexually harass people. Yes, there is often some social awkwardness for ADHD folks, but that is not harassment. If a person’s awkwardness turns into harassment, then someone needs to tell the person “No, that’s not how you talk to people. That’s not a thing you discuss at work.” Sure, the person may have been raised by wolves who never corrected his gaffes and rudeness, but allowing it as an “accommodation” does them or their coworkers a great disservice.

    24. LTL*

      its infuriating when people use any condition to excuse harassment, but ADHD!? that came out of left field. I didn’t even know that was a condition associated with social awkwardness

    25. Shakti*

      Yes thank you!!!! Her saying this is rage inducing!! Also literally no one I know with adhd sexually harasses people and I know a lot of them!!

  2. Mabby*

    He didn’t mean anything. He has AHDH (as in “that’s how he is”). When do we ever get past this? It’s 2025!

      1. Jennifer Strange*

        Which is funny because then they’ll get sued for allowing sexual harassment (or whatever bigotry/harassment is being excused in any given case).

      2. KitKat*

        It also smacks to me of “boys will be boys”, like “not harassing women is just so HARD!! how can we expect anyone to remember to do it all the time????”

        1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

          100. Came here looking for someone who felt Clara was “boys will be boys”-ing this. Does she have sons? Does she have a kid with ADHD? Wait, I don’t care. It doesn’t matter. She is failing as a steward of the company and as a human being. It seems to me that her, “that’s how Ben is” means she damn well knew he talks to women like this.

      3. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

        Could be. Could also be that Clara is bad at her job and doesn’t want to deal with it. Like, she knows that Ben is going to make the whole thing unpleasant and she just doesn’t wanna. Which is absolutely no excuse.

      1. Mabby*

        My tone was that “that’s how he is” and “he didn’t mean anything” have been the excuses for a very long time and I had rather hoped by 2025 we’d moved past that. Sadly I am mistaken.

  3. Sunshine on My Shoulders*

    Are you librarians? Sexual harassment has been so totally normalized in that profession (that’s a research-backed statement) that it’s possible Clara’s norms are just completely warped and she has lost track of the fact that this is still sexual harassment even if it is not sexual assault. It might be possible to remind her that sexual harassment comes in more than one form, and just because it’s rampant (nearly all female-presenting and some male-presenting librarians are sexually harassed at work) doesn’t mean it’s okay.

    1. Dulcinea47*

      Is it normalized from other employees or from patrons? (I am a librarian, I can totally look this up myself.)

      1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

        Both. In library school, my classmates working as paraprofessionals in libraries would share war stories about the guy who was naked, the woman using racial slurs, the children being let loose.
        They weren’t resigned to it. I think most of them hoped to change the culture.
        That was 20 years ago.
        How’d they do?

        1. Texan in Exile*

          I was on my library board. When my subcommittee reviewed the policies and procedures, we spent significant time debating whether we could require pants in addition to shirts and shoes. We – including the library director – were all horrified that we even had to consider such wording, but we also knew there are always the “But it’s not in the rules!” people.

          2. Library Lady*

            My last library specifically did NOT include pants in their patron guidelines “because it was already covered by public decency laws.”

            Number one rule of operating a public library: YOU MUST SPECIFICALLY REQUIRE THAT EVERYONE WEAR PANTS*

            *Or other appropriate covering of the lower half

            How did this come up? Because a woman came into the building wearing a swimsuit and a towel and we weren’t sure if we had the standing to ask her to leave. Redundancy and specificity are needed here!!

          3. Laser99*

            Oh yeah. This happens in retail too. “Where does it say that? Show me where it says I can’t return used hair dye without a receipt.”

            1. Another One*

              I never lied in a job more than I lied in retail.

              I’m sorry, you can’t do .

              Why?

              OSHA. (always stated really authoritatively.)

              Which didn’t apply at all but worked like 99% of the time.

    2. Davey*

      Can you please cite credible, verifiable research that “Sexual harassment has been so totally normalized in [librarianship]”?

      Thanks!

      1. MicroManagered*

        Your comment reads like you might not believe this is a thing, but there’s for sure research on sexual harassment and how it varies by profession. I’m mostly familiar with that research in the food service industry but I’m sure if you google it, you’ll find info. :)

      2. New Jack Karyn*

        Sure! I’ll put a couple of links in a separate comment, because comments with links have to be pulled out of the filter.

    3. Davey*

      Never mind my previous comment; I found one:

      “It’s Not Ok. It’s Not Normal”: Public Librarians’ Experiences of Sexual Harassment and Their Impact on Psychological Safety” (2024).

      From the study:

      “While public librarians experience significant harassment from their coworkers, a striking difference in this data is that the majority of harassment directed at public librarians comes from patrons. Board members account for some of the harassment, primarily in the form of gender harassment.”

      Heads-up: I found this study to be of rigor, but it’s really disturbing, especially the qualitative part. Fyi.

      1. Sunshine on My Shoulders*

        Yup that’s the one. Same authors have an earlier study of academic librarians too. It’s pretty much everyone, from both patrons and colleagues, and widely normalized.

        1. Laser99*

          Can someone explain why libraries can’t ban patrons who commit sexual harassment? Every time the topic comes up here it seems library staff are expected to just put up with it, and I can’t understand why.

          1. Meow*

            They can… I worked at a library and had a stalker, they threatened to ban him if he didn’t stop. Granted, he stopped, so I didn’t find out if they’d ever follow through, but it felt to me like they handled it super seriously.

            I think part of it is, you work with so many vulnerable members of the public (like people with untreated mental illness) and simply rude people, that you end up developing a thick skin. Probably rather like working in healthcare. It’s not acceptable to have to deal with harassment, but at some point, you have to pick your battles.

          2. Rex Libris*

            It’s difficult to ban someone permanently. We are a public entity and usually taxpayer funded, so we have an obligation to allow access to people if they aren’t causing a disturbance. And of course the creep that you ban will inevitably be the mayor’s wife’s cousin or something, so there’s that.

            We do (at least where I am) regularly ban patrons for various lengths of time, but the idea is that once they’ve had time to calm down and show they can play by the rules (if that ever happens) we give them another chance, assuming they haven’t done something violent, or some such.

            1. March*

              I just extremely hate the idea that stalking and harassing people apparently isn’t included in the definition of ‘causing a disturbance’.

          3. Can you really call yourself a fan if...*

            If it’s anything like my job, the excuse is that you can’t deny access to a public service.

      2. Kimmy Schmidt*

        (2021). Sexual Harassment at University of California Libraries: Understanding the Experiences of Library Staff Members. College & Research Libraries

        (2024). Part of the Job: Patron-Perpetrated Sexual Harassment in UK Public Libraries. Public Library Quarterly

        (2021). MeToo in the Academic Library: A Quantitative Measurement of the Prevalence of Sexual Harassment in Academic Libraries. College & Research Libraries

        (2023). “Finding a Way To Say ‘No’”: Library Employees’ Responses to Sexual Harassment as Emotional Labour. Proceedings of the ASIST Annual Meeting

        (2024). Epistemic Injustice In Library Work: A Case Study Of Patron-perpetrated Sexual Harassment. Proceedings of the Annual Conference of CAIS

        (2024). Prevalence and effect of workplace harassment among female library professionals. Information Development

        (2020). Reading between the Lines: An Environmental Scan of Writing about Third-Party Sexual Harassment in the LIS Literature and Beyond. The Library Quarterly

        (2019). Sexual harassment in the library: understanding experiences & taking action. ACRL Conference Proceedings

        (2021). Library Workers Experiencing or Observing Sexual Harassment in University of California Libraries is Commonplace and Commonly Unreported. Evidence Based Library andInformation Practice

        1. Madame Desmortes*

          Argh, sorry, comments crossed! Several of the Allard/Oliphant/Lieu pieces I was pointing toward appear in the above list.

        2. Tiredtoday*

          Oof, that is both impressive and a sad statement about the situation itself. Thanks for sharing though.

      3. Madame Desmortes*

        Tami Oliphant, Danielle Allard, and Angela Lieu (in various name orders) have been doing work on sexual harassment in librarianship and other feminized professions for quite a while — look them up in Google Scholar. They tend more toward the policy paper than the research study, but their lit reviews will be helpful.

    4. H.Regalis*

      That’s part of why I left. Rampant sexual harassment, vocational awe, *and* incredibly low pay. Bad trifecta.

    5. It happens --*

      In my community — about 15 years ago — the library director sexually assaulted my best friend when they were the last two people left at the end of the annual book sale. She told me and I discussed it with another friend, and then we figured out that his harassment was wide spread. A report was made to the police (who refused to even put the complaint into a report so that the news would not pick it up), then to the library board, and he was placed into mandatory therapy and allowed to keep his job. After the failure with the police, my friends and I worked through a local businesswoman who was connected with the library board (and someone whom I had known since the early 1990s) and she helped us file the complaint. She was the one who told us the outcome, and it was kept “confidential” with no one else in the community knowing what had occurred. So, the dude had a fairly clear slate to continue his harassment.

    6. foureyedlibrarian*

      I worked at a public, academic library where patrons who were not allowed in the public library for *reasons* (usually related to children) could come to our library. I was warned about a guy who is “creepy” towards people sitting at the reference desk– especially young women.

      Like many professions there are a lot of men who are perfectly normal, but there are the subset that take advantage of being in a female dominated profession (where quite a few of the male librarians have the higher position of power in libraries).

    7. Library Girl*

      I’ve been sexually harassed at every library (5) I’ve worked for, including my current workplace. Both patrons and other staff members were the perpetrators, and it ranged from “casual” (older women colleagues openly talking about and ogling my chest size) to actual criminal complaints (a male patron cornering me in the stacks while I was shelving books to pleasure himself). It never occurred to me that this could be a documented, researched phenomenon.

        1. Library Girl*

          The latter, yes. Everything else, no. I’m the youngest degreed librarian in my workplace (and on the young side for staff as a whole) and I struggle to be taken seriously in general.

    8. KMac*

      Just yesterday I learned that Melville Dewey was a rampant sexual harrasser and I’m sorry to hear that nothing has changed for library employees in 100 years.

  4. Rogue Slime Mold*

    Iteration 23,807 of:
    Bystander: Oh, that person has Condition X! It causes you to behave as an asshole in that specific way!
    People with Condition X: ????? It most certainly does not! Stop helping! It does not improve my prospects for you to claim that I will definitely be an asshole and there’s no way for me to stop.

    1. CityMouse*

      Yes, this is why people get really, really frustrated when commenters often attempt to explain away jerk behavior with someone not being neurotypical. It’s incorrect and a harmful stereotype.

    2. Newbie*

      Yeah. Even if someone does behave inappropriately due to a condition, the correct response is not to simply let it happen. It is to address the root cause. I had a neurodivergent coworker (I don’t know the details since I had no need to know) who made me uncomfortable by staring intently at my chest one day. Another coworker came in and asked him what he was doing. He was staring at my ID trying to figure out who I was since I had just had a pretty extreme haircut and he couldn’t recognize me. Other coworker told him in the future to just ask because staring intently in silence (at someone’s chest or any other body part) would make the other person uncomfortable.

      2. Flor*

        Yep, and the thing is? Most of us who are ND and fail at social cues would appreciate being told, so that we can a) apologise to the person we made uncomfortable and b) not do it again. Because being a jerk isn’t a neurodevelopmental condition.

      3. Jezabel*

        Lol, reminds me of the time a friend’s drunken boyfriend was staring intently at my chest before asking to touch it, then immediately said something else that made it clear that he was just mesmerized by the velvet fabric my shirt was made of and didn’t even notice what was under it!

    3. Mipshaster*

      Yup. I remember in my online Star Trek group a few years back someone was trying that excuse for poor behaviour. “She’s autistic, she can’t help it”. In an online Star Trek group. I mean. I don’t have to explain what kind of demographics you’d find in an online Star Trek group, do I? That excuse was not entertained for long.

  5. Tim Tam Slam*

    Are there resources out there aimed at how to address inappropriate behavior with neurodivergent people? Maybe an advocacy group would have resources available to address people like Clara?

    1. Pastor Petty LaBelle*

      This is not the way. Clara is being an idiot. You handle it the same way you would neurotypical people — this is not acceptable behavior and it must stop.

      IF the person’s condition really does make it impossible to stop, then they can seek an accomodation. But pre-emptively blowing it off or treading with kids gloves is not the solution.

      1. Tim Tam Slam*

        I see, thank you. I was also asking for myself – I grew up with an abusive sibling and later had an abusive spouse, both of whom’s behavior was explained away as them being neurodivergent. I don’t have a good toolset for addressing inappropriate behavior with someone when I believe it’s connected to neurodivergence or mental health. The times in the past when I tried to address the behavior, I was told something along the lines of “they/I can’t change because Reasons” and “all ADHD people are like that, so if you don’t like it then you’re against Group.” I did not have good responses back then and I’d like to learn how to address it if it ever happens again, so I don’t ever become a Clara.

        1. bamcheeks*

          I suspect this isn’t a communication issue, but a “believing you have the right not to be abused” issue. If someone tries to use their neurodivergence as a reason why they are abusive, it isn’t that you aren’t communicating effectively, it’s that they consider their comfort and ease more important your right to be safe. The only phrase you can use that will make someone care if they are committed to not caring is something they care about more: in the workplace, the key phrase that can make someone care is, “or you won’t have a job”. In an interpersonal relationship, it’s usually “or you won’t have me in your life”, and that depends firstly on believing you have the right to walk away from someone like that, and secondly, having the money or resources to be able to do it. Neither of which is necessarily easy!

        2. Hlao-roo*

          These old AAM posts might be decent starting points. They’re about the workplace, of course (and not about abusive people), but some of the concepts might translate over to your personal life:

          https://www.askamanager.org/2019/03/my-office-is-walking-on-eggshells-around-our-overly-friendly-coworker.html

          https://www.askamanager.org/2025/05/how-do-i-manage-someone-with-poorly-controlled-adhd.html

          https://www.askamanager.org/2017/01/our-company-is-making-us-do-unreasonable-things-to-accommodate-a-coworkers-mental-health.html

          (The last one is an example of what not to do.)

          You might also want to check out Captain Awkward for advice about dealing with abusive people. I don’t know off the top of my head if there are any CA posts about neurodivergent abusers, but as other people are saying in this thread, the strategies to deal with it are broadly similar (or the same) for neurodivergent abusers and neurotypical abusers.

          1. Hannah Lee*

            If you search the Tag / Category Geek Social Fallacies at Captain Awkward there are probably many posts that cover dealing with neurodivergent abusers in groups.

            1. Hannah Lee*

              Let me rephrase that last bit because what I wrote isn’t what I meant:

              ” … many posts that cover dealing with abusive individuals in groups where someone tries to use “neurodivergence” as a cover for jerks and an excuse for abusive/harassing behavior.”

        3. Wearing the pants of a banana*

          I’m so sorry for your experiences. I’m autistic and can categorically say that being neurodivergent does not make you abusive. Very, very broadly speaking it can make it difficult to deal with sensory input (loud noises, bright lights, scratchy clothes etc) or grasping non-explicit conversational cues (body language, hints), among other things. *It does not mean that you cannot change harmful behaviour.* As another commenter said above, sexual harassment is not a reasonable accommodation; from an autistic perspective, asking someone not to be abusive is not the same as requiring them to mask. Not to mention, while there are commonalities, there’s no such thing as “all Type X people do Y thing”.
          If you ask someone to change their harmful behaviour and they refuse for any reason, here is your permission to run as fast as you can in the opposite direction.

          1. Unable to can*

            Honestly even if we assume this person is autistic and din’t see the harm in asking for that photograph, most would be mortified when it’s pointed out to them that thet made someone uncomfortable and add it to the mental list of “things to remember in social interactions that no one bothered to tell me and I was supposed to *just know* somehow”.

            1. shedubba*

              I’ve been going through something similar with my kindergartener, not because she’s neurodivergent (though she might be), but because she’s 5. The phrasing that seems to have worked is, “You are doing a thing that is also done by creepy men who want to hurt women. I know you don’t want to hurt anyone, and you don’t mean it in a bad way, but it makes people think of those creepy men and it makes them very uncomfortable.” I feel like this kind of clear, direct addressing of the situation could be beneficial.

              1. TM*

                I honestly would omit the part where you’re implicitly comparing your child to “creepy men” or the ascribing a particular reason to a person’s dislike of behaviour X, and just focus on the effect the behaviour might have on other people.
                I feel like it should be sufficient to say, “Some people really don’t like being hugged (or whatever), and if you try and make them, they feel very uncomfortable. I know you don’t want to make someone feel bad, so you should stop doing X (with this person/in general).”
                As someone who has had some personal trauma, I would really hate it if your kid assumed I don’t like being hugged because of “creepy men”. Such messages can really prey on a kid’s mind and lead to all kinds of unfortunate beliefs /assumptions. It’s also unfair to indirectly project onto a child the kind of motivations a “creepy man” might have – again, something a kid can internalise really poorly.
                I don’t like being hugged by anyone randomly, yes, because of trauma, but I absolutely do not associate the majority of unexpected huggers with the actual perpetrators/event. (I’m just using unwanted hugs as an example here.)
                Sorry if it seems I am coming on a bit strong about this message, but I very much want to urge you to modify that aspect of your approach with your child.

          2. Zelda*

            Just to clarify: You are using “requiring them to mask” in the sense of “requiring an autistic person to pretend not to be autistic, and to expend large amounts of energy mimicing neurotypical behaviors,” yes? And not in the sense of “reqiring a person to wear a facial mask to limit transmission of disease.” (I understand that the latter can actually be a challenge for people with sensory issues, but depending on context it’s not automatically ableist.)

        4. Observer*

          when I tried to address the behavior, I was told something along the lines of “they/I can’t change because Reasons” and “all ADHD people are like that, so if you don’t like it then you’re against Group.”

          So, step #1 is to understand that what you were being told, in regards to ADHD for sure, is simply not true. Abuse of other people is not “how ADHD people are”. Which means that your response to that kind of comment is “Not true, and stop making up stuff.”

          Also, in the case where problematic behavior is directly linked to an issue of neurodivergence (which is not likely, but could happen), you have the right to walk away when it’s in the context of a personal relationship. You don’t have to stick around with someone who has voices in their head telling them to slap you etc. And it doesn’t have to be physical slapping either.

          In a work place context, you have a right to safety in the workplace, and that includes the basics of psychological safety. Which means that if someone is harassing you or anyone else, the employer has an *obligation* to put a stop to it. If it’s legally prohibited behavior, then the obligation is legal. If the behavior is legal, the obligation is “only” moral. But they totally have the legal right to act on that obligation.

          I’m sorry you were abused in this way.

        5. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

          I’m sorry that happened to you, it all sounds really, really hard. You didn’t deserve it. Nobody does.

          I’d like you to consider the possibility that these two abusive people were using neurodivergence as a convenient excuse to be awful to you (and, I’m assuming, to others). They didn’t want to change because the situation was working out for them. Maybe they genuinely believed that their neurodivergence made it impossible for them to change, maybe they were just throwing it out there because it worked. I wasn’t there, so I can’t know what the dynamics are. Abusive people say all sorts of things and play all sorts of games to maintain access to people they can abuse. It can be especially interesting to look at any patterns in who those people abuse and who they don’t. For this example, does Ben do or say similar things to women who are higher up in the company where he works, or is it only directed towards women with equal or less power than him? Does the spouse who throws things somehow manage to only destroy your stuff and never their own? Do they also throw things at work?

          You don’t owe me – or any of us – any kind of response. But please think about whether those two were lying to you and/or wrong about the cause of their behaviour.

          You might get something out of reading Captain Awkward. I know I have. Will post a link in a reply.

            1. Wearing the pants of a banana*

              Seconding the recommendation for Captain Awkward, in whose comment section the term “house of evil bees” originated.

          2. MigraineMonth*

            The corollary to “neurodivergent people can change their behavior” is that even if someone *cannot* change their behavior, you still don’t have to put up with it. Teaching them to stop hurting you is not your responsibility. Even if they’re in pain. Even if they don’t mean to. Even if they say they need you.

            Regardless of why they do it, you don’t need to stay around someone who hurts you.

        6. Not Tom, Just Petty*

          Have you spoken to a professional about your experiences? Nobody has a right to treat you badly. Your gifts, abilities, neuro-normalcy are not a reason to be abused. That’s like saying, “It’s ok to steal from wealthy people. They don’t need it. They have so much.”
          No, they are people. The things are theirs.
          You are a people. You deserve respect.

      2. epicdemiologist*

        What would an accommodation for “I can’t keep myself from sexually harassing my coworkers” even look like? A blindfold and/or muzzle?

      3. Starbuck*

        “IF the person’s condition really does make it impossible to stop, then they can seek an accomodation.”

        No, if they can’t stop their inappropriate behavior then they can just get fired! My goodness. No accommodation is needed here, it would be absurd to even entertain it as an idea.

    2. Wearing the pants of a banana*

      You really don’t need a special approach, unless you mean an advocacy group that could tell Clara to get her head out of her ass and address the issue with Ben the same way she would with any other person.

    3. Chairman of the Bored*

      Yes! They’re any resources that tell you how to address inappropriate behavior generally, the neurodivergent aspect doesn’t matter.

      In the workplace especially it comes down to clearly communicating “knock this shit off or you won’t work here anymore” and meaning it.

    4. Potato Potato*

      In this case, the approach is the same. There’s some cases where it makes sense to update your approach to accommodate somebody’s divergent brain, but this isn’t one of them. If he was struggling with auditory processing or needed clearer language for instructions, that’s a case where you might need to adjust your approach.

      1. Rogue Slime Mold*

        Like learning styles–Yes, sometimes it helps to know that Sam is an auditory learner and Pat needs things written down. And sometimes the instruction is “Hey! Stop standing on my foot!” and it doesn’t need to be conveyed in multiple soft formats of hinting and murmurs of accommodating differences and trying to truly get into the mindset of the person on your foot.

        1. MigraineMonth*

          For some expressions of neurodivergence, it wouldn’t be a “learning style” but an accommodation for a disability: for example, Sam has trouble understanding written instructions due to dyslexia but Pat has an auditory processing disorder and requires written instructions. Maybe Alex struggles a lot with figurative language and needs to ask a lot of clarifying questions if the manager uses any metaphors or unfamiliar slang. That’s not “soft”, it’s communicating absolutely clearly.

          The message, however, should be clear and unambiguous that the behavior and similar harassing behavior needs to stop immediately or the employee will be fired.

    6. CityMouse*

      Sexual harassment is NEVER tolerated. There is no reasonable accommodation that allows someone to harass a coworker.

      Even people who work with people with very severe disabilities (like residential programs) are not required to just tolerate harassment, there are controls for that, and that’s for patients, not coworkers.

    7. metadata minion*

      Some people have trouble picking up on hints (though that’s not usually specifically a feature of ADHD) and it’s useful to spell out the problem very clearly and verbally, but in a workplace situation that’s a good idea anyway.

      1. Pastor Petty LaBelle*

        This. How many neurodivergent people have come on here and said – I would appreciate someone just flat out telling me because its hard to pick up clues.

        1. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

          Yup. If you calmly and clearly explain what behaviour is and is not appropriate, you’ll learn everything you need to know based on their reaction. They’re going to commit to doing better or they’re going to throw a fit and try to blame others. The former you can potentially work with. The latter is bad news all around.

        2. Emily Byrd Starr*

          I know I’m one of them. I’ve often said that dropping subtle hints to a neurodivergent is like texting a landline. Just like landlines aren’t wired to pick up text messages, many ND brains aren’t wired to pick up subtle hints. So yeah, be direct with us.

      2. Newbie*

        Yep. It isn’t really an accommodation, just best practice in the workplace. If someone is doing something wrong, give clear verbal and/or written feedback telling them what the behavior is and that it is not ok.

      3. MigraineMonth*

        Some ND people–particularly on parts of the autism spectrum–have trouble with social skills, hints, figurative language and unspoken rules. That means we can come off as a bit odd, uncharismatic or unpolished.

        Unless we’re actually assholes, we don’t go around grabbing people’s butts or stealing their wallets and then complain “No one *specifically* said I couldn’t!”

      4. March*

        Yes. If the ADHD is the problem, then a clearly worded and concrete instruction for change in behaviour is the solution. If that solution does not work or is met with resistance, then the ADHD isn’t the problem – the person is.

    8. Radioactive Cyborg Llama*

      IMHO, a lot of ND people respond better to direct instructions and communications than a lot of NT people do. Even if the behavior is due to ND, ND people are capable of learning things like, “don’t give physical compliments to your co-workers.”

      1. Dulcinea47*

        That’s not generally an ADHD characteristic, I don’t think, but certainly the right tactic either way in this case.

    9. Observer*

      Are there resources out there aimed at how to address inappropriate behavior with neurodivergent people?

      This is absolutely *not* the correct tack to take. There are many reasons for that. But the most basic is that there is simply *no* correlation between neurodivergence at this level (ie otherwise functional in the workplace) and the kind of behavior at play here.

      It’s not fair to his victims nor to other neurodivergent individuals to act as though there actually is some link.

      1. Hannah Lee*

        Like the recent posted about the employee who spent hours during the workday eating instead of working, and was failing to complete work, make deadlines, etc. this is a
        “The Iranian yogurt is not the issue here” situation. The eating at work wasn’t the actionable issue, it was the poor job performance, so focusing on addressing the eating at work was not going to help. At all.

        In this situation, the possible neurodivergence isn’t the actionable issue, for the employer, the repeated sexual harassment is. The employer (Clara, HR) legally needs to take steps to ensure that workplace is free from sexual harassment, things like clearly calling the Ben out on his behavior, with details of things he’s done that are no acceptable. Make clear that sexual harassment there not acceptable and will not be tolerated, and that he will be disciplined if he continues, up to and including termination of his employment.

        There is no need to even care why he’s doing what he’s doing, whether he’s neurodivergent or neurotypical. The “make clear” part above should cover any communication challenges, and he’s free to ask for clarification, guidance if he doesn’t understand.
        But his behavior is unacceptable, and BTW, likely illegal in this workplace and he needs to stop. Period.

        See also “You need to get off my foot” which is quoted on a Captain Awkward post I’ll link below.

        An excerpt which may apply to OP’s situation with Ben behavior given Carla’s stance:

        “If you have foot-stepping disease, and it makes you unaware you’re stepping on feet, you need to get off my foot. If an event has rules designed to keep people from stepping on feet, you need to follow them. If you think that even with the rules, you won’t be able to avoid stepping on people’s feet, absent yourself from the event until you work something out.”

    10. Sandi*

      I’ve worked with someone who was creepy and inappropriate, and he did it for years before my wonderful manager finally addressed it. We knew he was doing it on purpose, but approached it by assuming he didn’t. “For your info, this behavior has been making some women uncomfortable.” “Oh no, I had no idea!!!!!” “Well we’re telling you now to never do it again.”

      Whether or not it’s intentional, or someone is neurodivergent or not, is really irrelevant thankfully. I could maybe understand that it might be accidental if someone was autistic and didn’t understand social conventions, yet the conversation would be exactly the same.

    11. Nightengale*

      the resources I know all boil down to how to make expectations more concrete. For example, “Social Context and Self Management” by Kari Dunn Buron et al. It goes into ways to teach someone how, for example, comments on looks may be perceived and what comments may or may not be OK in different situations (workplace vs new classmate vs on a third date with someone)

    12. Nesprin*

      You’re kidding right? This is pretty offensive, the idea that you need to contact an advocacy group to get a guy to stop sexually harassing staff because he’s neurodivergent.

      You address inappropriate behavior with neurodivergent people the same way you do with neurotypical people. You ask what’s going on with the behavior, then at most once ask them to stop nicely, then tell them to stop, then use PIPs or firings to make them stop.

    13. Hyaline*

      Ok, after thinking about this–yes, I think Clara actually DOES need some resources from an advocacy group or other source that could help her understand that a) neurodivergent people are not inherently harassers, b) they can be held to normal standards of normal noncreep interaction with possible subpoint b2) workplace accommodations should be reasonable and can’t include other people being harassed and c) she shouldn’t share people’s diagnoses with others at work without permission.

      And yes, if ultimately this falls to Clara (which I sincerely hope it does not and a competent HR department steps in), and she struggles to explain things to CreepyPants McGee, then it’s time to seek resources to help with *communication* of the expectations. But at this point she hasn’t even attempted to communicate, so I don’t think we can presume she needs assistance with that beyond the normal “how to tell your employee to quit harassing your other employees.”

  6. Viki*

    I’d tell HR, as well as if Clara has a boss, loop them in so they know Clara blew this off.

    If Clara doesn’t have a boss, you can still check in on Amy, and the other women and point them to resources that exist either in your company or external ones. You can also validate that this is not normal or acceptable in the workplace.

  7. Wearing the pants of a banana*

    I’m autistic and have MANY friends and loved ones who are some flavour of neurodivergent — autistic, ADHD, whatever.
    I am so. Damn. Tired of people (often non-ND, deeply uninformed people) using our neurotype as an excuse for poor behaviour.
    In my experience, many ND folks are often anxious about being misunderstood, or giving the wrong impression, and will absolutely change their behaviour if told that it’s causing a problem.
    Also, many of us might not be skilled at small talk, but we can tell the difference between that and harassment, FFS.

    2. Whoop*

      Right, there’s magnitude of difference between “not always skilled at small talk and accidentally said something inappropriate oh my God I am so sorry!” and what Ben is doing. I swear, some days I hate that ADHD and autism are better diagnosed these days, because so many normies think it’s a blanket excuse for asshole behavior.

    3. Paint N Drip*

      I’d also add that your average serial harasser who keeps lowkey enough to not be fired probably has immense social skills (choosing victims, identifying the level of gross before complaints start and staying below that threshold, making the comments in moments he catches you alone, etc.) and choosing to label this behavior as clueless is practically laughable

      1. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

        Great point. They know what they’re doing and are often capable of calibrating their behaviour very well for a long time until and unless they come up against someone who sees through the BS.

      2. Wearing the pants of a banana*

        Good point. And yes, I can definitely be oblivious to some social cues but I’m not THAT clueless.

    4. DramaQ*

      Studies done recently actually bear out that ND people tend to be more socially aware and more empathetic because we want to understand/fit in so we tend to observe others behavior and we have experienced not fitting in so don’t want to do that to others.

      The studies that claimed ND people either don’t care or cannot understand any social cues were done on very small subsets of children back in the days when children who were ND were often institutionalized. You’re not going to get very accurate data there.

      It was only once researchers actually bothered to talk to ND instead of interpreting us through their own NT lens that it came out we are quite aware of the things they assumed we are not.

      Not being able to end a conversation or know how much eye contact is too much is NOT the same as not understanding sexual harassment is wrong. I am getting really sick of NT people using outdated research to excuse bad behavior in the name of being “inclusive”.

      You can be a jerk. You can be ND. You can be ND AND a jerk at the same time they are not mutually exclusive. ND people come in as many flavors as NT people do. We’re not toddlers who just need a little patience and understanding to get that taking pictures of your beautiful coworker is a no no.

      2. Wearing the pants of a banana*

        I didn’t know that about the early studies! But it’s definitely true that I am super observant of others’ behaviour (what magic thing must I do to fit in?) and am often empathetic to the point of tears (working in news journalism sucks right now).

        Also, many ND folks have a deeply ingrained sense of justice and sexual harassment generally falls on the “bad, do not do” side.

    5. Elbe*

      For what it’s worth, I think the “but he can’t help it because of XYZ reason!” crew doesn’t always mean what they say. I’m sure some are genuinely misguided, but I think a lot of it comes down to people wanting a sympathetic-sounding reason to do nothing.

      It’s very common for people to want to avoid having uncomfortable conversations. And it’s common for people to believe, deep down, that this type of harassment just isn’t a problem that needs to be addressed – that it’s just the way things are. Both of these groups will jump on any justification to keep the status quo while still feeling like a good person.

      1. DramaQ*

        I think it’s also a good healthy dose of ableism which doesn’t just mean they say you should “Try harder” whenever you struggle as an ADHD person.

        Look at how people were treated in the past and how a lot of people with various disabilities and learning disorders are still treated. People act like having these things makes the person a helpless infant who is just too naive to know better so let’s pat them on the head and say “Oh it’s all right Amy just needs to learn to understand where you are coming from!”

        It goes back to old outdated research that suggested “we” are incapable of learning which “we” are not if people invest the time into it. Children at a very early age can learn to keep their hands to themselves and respect other people’s personal space.

        Taking it a step further who here hasn’t had sexual harassment training at some point in their career? Which often lists out specifically you don’t make comments about people’s bodies? I have taken it so many times at various employers I don’t even listen anymore because I have it memorized.

        Ben is a professional adult at some point in his life statistically he has come across being told that sexual harassment is unacceptable and quite likely what he is doing has been specifically listed.

        If Ben truly could not understand that then the issue is much deeper and still does not require Amy put up with it. It would require that Ben needs constant supervision from an aide who is trained to step in when Ben crosses the line. I don’t buy for a minute Ben is on that end of the bell curve here.

  8. CubeFarmer*

    Also, LW needs to start writing down a timeline of her interactions with her colleagues and with Clara, and keeping that written documentation safely stored in a non-work location.

    Something tells me when this situation blows up and the fingers start getting pointed at Clara, she’s going to have amnesia about these conversations.

    1. Pastor Petty LaBelle*

      Definitely. When she knew and who she reported it to. So when it all blows up, she can show I did what I was supposed to do. Because the whole company is exposed now and the best you can do is CYA.

      1. CubeFarmer*

        And depending on what state you’re in (assuming LW is in the US,) the manager has her own liability if she knew of the harassment and did nothing. If she reported it to someone higher up, then she’s covered.

        I dealt with something somewhat similar to this about a year ago, only the person creating the harassment was my direct boss, and I was asked to do something discriminatory that I refused to do. So, I had to have a conversation with a board member.

        I’m so glad that I immediately documented the conversation because this many months on, I can remember only the barest details. Luckily, nothing like this has happened since (to my knowledge,) so hopefully that was one unfortunate decision that will not be repeated.

    2. Don’t put metal in the science oven*

      Yes, and follow up with an email to Clara summarizing your concerns from your verbal conversation on (date) so there will be company documentation. Written documentation will be key here. She’ll be more likely to act with written communication

    3. Observer*

      W needs to start writing down a timeline of her interactions with her colleagues and with Clara, and keeping that written documentation safely stored in a non-work location.

      ~~Sigh~~ I wish I did not have to agree with you 100%

      You are completely correct! And it stinks that the LW has to worry about it. But better safe than sorry. So, LW please do follow this advice.

  9. CityMouse*

    I was also diagnosed with ADHD as a kid and argh, this stuff is so ridiculously harmful and creates this atmosphere where people incorrectly believe people with ADHD or ASD are all jerks.

  10. Wearing the pants of a banana*

    I’m autistic, have many neurospicy friends and loved ones, and I am goddamn tired of people using our neurotype as an excuse for shitty behaviour.
    Habit of repeating a comment or joke that comes off as awkward? Tell us and we’ll stop, because many of us are deeply anxious about being misunderstood.
    Also, small talk might not always be our greatest skill, but (forgive me for yelling) WE CAN TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THAT AND HARASSMENT, FFS

    1. Observer*

      Habit of repeating a comment or joke that comes off as awkward? Tell us and we’ll stop, because many of us are deeply anxious about being misunderstood.

      Also, that habit is not going to hurt anyone. As a person on the receiving end of that because of dementia (where telling them something literally cannot accomplish anything), I know that the worst that can happen is that you hear the same story about 1,000 times. Which is boring or maybe awkward. But not harmful.

      1. Nobby Nobbs*

        The double standard of treating “being kind of annoying” as a capital crime and sexual harassment or bigotry as a symptom that has to be accommodated (ignored) is really starting to wear on me.

    2. It's Me*

      I (ADHD) have been guilty of relying soo heavily on an inside joke because I thought it was a legitimate bond/thing that was amusing to reference repeatedly. You know what I’ve never been guilty of? Sexually harassing a coworker–or anyone for that matter! I’m so tired (like many others in the comments) of neurotypical people assuming that neurodivergent folks are less intelligent/incapable of understanding social cues/whatever other infantilizing beliefs they hold about us. Ben is a grown ass man, he is capable of being told to stop harassing his coworkers.

      1. Wearing the pants of a banana*

        I actually used the joke as an example because I happen to have a colleague who repeats the same (pretty terrible) jokes AD INFINITUM and I know it’s because they see it as a bonding thing to fall back on. Annoying but harmless.
        I know I do the same thing sometimes so I try to be aware of it (or at least not repeat them to the same people).
        The difference of course is that *my* jokes are actually *good*…

  11. Anon for this*

    I have ADHD and have never sexually harassed anyone because I’m not a raging a@@hole who objectifies women.

  12. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

    The thing is that even if someone has some sort of condition that makes them not get where the line between friendliness and sexual harassment is (and that’s a big IF, generally, and definitely does not apply here), the solution is to tell them very clearly what’s appropriate and what’s not. You don’t just wash your hands of things and let that person continue harassing their colleagues, which is bad for the colleagues and also bad for the person in question, since nobody will want to work with them.

    If there is any kind of confusion (and there really isn’t here), the person’s reaction to being told they’re behaving inappropriately will tell you everything you need to know. A well-meaning person who does not understand social interactions will take in that information and try to change their behaviour. A jerk-wad will come up with reasons why their behaviour is OK, punish people for reporting it, and do other jerk-wad-type things.

  13. Jennifer Strange*

    She said that Ben has ADHD, which makes his social interactions awkward

    Yeah, we’re well past awkward.

      1. Anon for this*

        Right? Many ADHD folks can also be on the autism spectrum (some of the reading I’ve done suggests that there are a lot of co-morbities) but again, even if one is on the spectrum and is socially awkward, that’s a far cry from whatever the hell this guy is doing. And not for nothing, we AuDHD folks usually know we are awkward and will immediately stop the behavior if someone tells us it’s crossed a line because, you know, we are basically good people who want to do the right thing.

  14. DramaQ*

    Thank you thank you thank you Allison! I am getting so tired of reading comments about how people are entitled to be jerks and make others uncomfortable because “Well they might be NT!”

    That is just as ableist as not recognizing neurodivergence. My brain is wired to process things differently but I am not a toddler! I know that taking a picture of my co-worker while waxing on about how beautiful she/he is NOT appropriate behavior under any circumstances.

    I learned boundaries as a child. Being expected to tolerate any type of harassment is not an accommodation for NT people.

    We can function in society people. Excusing bad behavior is making it seem like we are too stupid to function and the only way we can fit in is if you coddle us.

    It makes everything so much worse and harder to be taken seriously. People already think ADHD means I am lazy and sloppy. Now they are starting to think I say that so I can get away with bad behaviors others couldn’t. Gee thanks Clara! Great advocacy and showing you are an ally there! ::rolls eyes::

    2. Polly Hedron*

      Great comment! But, to avoid confusion, the acronym should be “ND” (neurodiverse) instead of “NT” (neurotypical).

    3. LookAtMeI'mTheManagerNow*

      Also, toddlers can and do learn boundaries, so anybody gainfully employed should be able to!

  15. Hannah Lee*

    Aside from Clara’s weird and ill-informed looping in of ADHD as an excuse for Ben sexually harassing people at his workplace, I want to point out OP’s own looping in of irrelevant information here:

    “Also, this is not a case of Ben awkwardly flirting. He’s married and tells people “happily” so, and both women who reported this behavior are also married.”

    a) It doesn’t matter even if it WAS a case of (supposed) awkward flirting … Ben’s intentions don’t matter. His behavior is sexual harassment no matter why he’s doing it.
    and
    b) Someone’s marital status does not determine whether or not they actively flirt with people or sexually harass someone. Married people do in fact sometimes flirt with co-workers and they sadly also do in fact sexually harass co-workers (ask me how I know). Folks shouldn’t categorize or read into other’s behavior based their own assumptions about marital status.

  16. Keymaster of Gozer (She/Her)*

    Now that Ben’s behavior has been reported, your organization is opening itself to legal liability if it doesn’t act.

    I’d like to point out this is true under UK law too. If you report harrassment and the company goes ‘oh well, we’re not doing anything’ then they’re heading for a legal problem.

    And the whole ‘men can’t help it because they have X mental condition so you should be kind and accept it’ BS is hideously offensive to the women who may have those same damn conditions because everyone expects us to just put up with being harrassed.

    I’m 50. I’ve had nearly 30 years of the ‘oh but men are just clueless/he was giving you a compliment/calling a man creepy is a slur/why do you want to make a big thing out of this/you’re being ableist by complaining about him’ crap and I’m so, so, tired.

    The intent behind his actions truly do not matter – the impact does.

    1. StephChi*

      I’m almost 60, and I, too, have had enough of “oh, men are just clueless…” garbage. No, they’re not. And, of course, when he (hopefully) gets called out on it, Ben will probably say something to his buddies like, “We’re not even allowed to talk to women at work anymore without being accused of harassment.” No, dude, plenty of men know how to talk to their women co-workers without sexually harassing them.

  17. morethantired*

    “I’m sorry for staring at you. You’re just so beautiful.”
    The Face I Would Have Made At This.
    Even if it had been at a bar and I was single.
    Ick.

    1. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      The best apology is changed behaviour. Dude can look somewhere else or experience consequences of his behaviour.

    2. Wearing the pants of a banana*

      I have a spectacular case of RBF (my favourite baby picture of myself shows me at maybe six months old, post bath, giving the camera a death stare) and maybe because of that, I get catcalled/harassed pretty early. Which means that when it *does* happen, I have absolutely no control over what my face does.
      Ben would have received Baby Banana’s very best death stare.

    3. Mabby*

      Last guy who tried that on me (and I am NOT beautiful albeit nothing wrong with my looks) in a pub got a very icy stare and “I prefer to be on my own thanks.” He got the picture rapidly. Why do these men (in my case it’s always men) think this is going to get them points?

    4. Emily Byrd Starr*

      “So, when you walk past a beautiful house, do you take out a pair of binoculars and use them to look in the window and spy on the people? When you walk by a house and you smell something delicious cooking, do you walk into the house and demand to be fed?”

  18. Slow Gin Lizz*

    Just curious if OP or anyone else has spoken to *Ben’s* supervisor. OP said they spoke to Amy’s supervisor, but if Ben is the problem person, it’s his supervisor who should be informing him that he can’t behave this way. I mean, the director should really step up and do it but since Clara seems confused about how ADHD works (note: I have ADHD and I can chime in with all the others here to say this isn’t how it works), I think Ben’s supervisor would be the next best person to do it. Or at least Ben’s supervisor should absolutely know what is happening. And of course HR, if there is one.

    1. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      I was confused about this, too. Though the LW said that Ben and Amy are in the same division, so I figured Clara might be the supervisor for both. Particularly since when one of the LW’s own reports came to her about Ben, she didn’t see that as an opening to talk to Ben herself.

      But yes, if Ben has a separate supervisor, definitely go to her to deal with it.

  19. Momma Bear*

    LW, does the company have a handbook? I’d dig it out and remind Clara what the company’s stance is on harassment. A couple of times I’ve been around when a situation bubbles up. Either the company has a refresher or they update the handbook, or both. Sounds like Clara knows he’s a problem, so she’s not doing her job protecting the employees. I agree that if there’s HR your next step is there. Nobody deserves to be harassed at work, and there is zero excuse for it.

  20. Observer*

    LW, when you talk to HR please point out that this mess puts the company in a bad spot on multiple fronts. One is that it does not matter whether Ben “meant” anything or not. Because intent is not magic, and his behavior is out of line, ie classic harassment which is verging on the severe and is already coming quite close to pervasive. And both illegal behavior and behavior that actually harms other are *NEVER* a “reasonable accommodation.”

    It also leaves the company open on the ADA front. Because Clara’s perception of Ben’s disability could – and arguably *should* -lead her to treat Ben differently than she might otherwise. Because if she has any brains she is not going to let him get near to clients or any outsider who needs to not be insulted by her staff. And that could be a career limiting move for him. The fact that she is 100% wrong about ADHD does not change that. But it *does* put the organization at risk if there are any other people with ADHD that get treating inappropriately because of her ignorance of how ADHD works.

    Also, they are on thin ice because there is a pattern emerging here. That’s always going to be taken more seriously. Because while it’s possible to not be a jerk and say that *one* person “misunderstood”, the more people who report the problem, the less credible that is. And you already have 2 people. Beyond that, you also now know that there may be *more* people who he has harassed, because the first woman did not come to you until she found out about Amy, at which point she also came to you.

    Which leads to yet *another* exposure. If someone *else* takes them on, and did not report it first, the company will have zero standing to say that they have reporting mechanisms that the complainant chose not to use. Because people can point to the fact that 2 people *did* come forward and nothing really changed.

    Please do follow up with Amy and the other woman. In addition to what Allison said, please tell both of them that they absolutely should continue to report any continued misbehavior, including anything that could be seen as retaliatory. (eg He starts making snarky comments about how he “can’t” talk to them when they have a work related question etc.)

    Also, please tell Amy that it’s not her job to find a way to keep him from harassing her. It’s not a problem that she made small talk with Ben. But she does NOT *need* to do that in order to get him to understand that she’s actually a *person* rather than an object! She should *please* not do or allow anything that makes her feel uncomfortable. No matter what he says, how “hurt” his feelings get, nothing. Of course, if she sees it as a safety issue, that’s a different issue and she needs to use her judgement there. But that needs to be reports immediately and the company needs to deal with anything like that on an emergency basis.

    And I am *really* sad and infuriated for her that she feels the need to find a way to get this guy to see her as a person not a female mannequin.

    1. Malarkey01*

      The only change I’d make it LW shouldn’t be the one following up with Amy and providing all this additional information. Once we have a sexual harassment investigation all info should be coming from HR or Director. We’ve had a few cases where well meaning people not trained in harassment have made the situation worse by trying to talk to the Amy of the situation and have made misstatements or well meaning but misinterpreted things.

  21. Disliker of Glassbowls*

    I have been diagnosed with ADHD. Never in my 64 years have I sexually harassed anyone.

    I would suggest that the people being harassed tell the glassbowl to stop. No, I’m not victim blaming. But he or the weenies in charge might argue that he didn’t know they did not welcome his glassbowlery. If he continues, and he will, they can lodge a formal complaint. If possible, have witnesses to him being told to stop. Good luck. I’m really sorry that he is being enabled by the higher weenies.

    1. Slow Gin Lizz*

      No, sorry, if you’re being harassed it is not on you to tell the harasser to stop. This isn’t like if you want someone to stop playing their music out loud or quit talking about war so much, this is actually a safety and legal concern where someone in power at the company should tell the harasser to knock it off and the person being harassed should feel safe at work and not required to risk their own personal safety by confronting their harasser. You don’t tell someone who is being physically threatened that it’s on them to stop the person threatening them, you call the police. This is no different (and not just because harassment, unfortunately, can sometimes even lead to physical violence).

      In an ideal world, sure, we should all be able to tell our harassers to quit it without worrying about their reaction, but unfortunately that is not the world we live in.

      2. Raisinette*

        Disliker is right to a point, mostly for things like “you look so beautiful,” where if you report it, you may be asked if you told the person to KNOCK IT OFF. Like ONE strike. Happens again, straight to HR. But I can see skipping that and going straight to HR in many other instances.

    2. Observer*

      But he or the weenies in charge might argue that he didn’t know they did not welcome his glassbowlery.

      Oh, they most definitely will argue that. In fact, Clara has essentially already made that case.

      So, yeah, LW it might be a good idea to tell people “Please say that you do not like this at least once. Be explicit even if it feels rude. This is important to make sure that no one can claim that it was just a misunderstanding.” And, yes, be explicit about why you are asking and that the problem is NOT the victim but that you are trying to avoid people making up excuses.

      1. HonorBox*

        The problem with this is that this is a safety issue, not a personal preference issue. Using @Slow Gin Lizz’s examples, this isn’t about someone bringing up a potentially-sensitive topic (war, politics) or playing their music too loud. This is something that shouldn’t be on the receiver to address first if they don’t feel comfortable doing. The two people who have reported Ben’s behavior reported his behavior to a superior. Companies have procedures for reporting this kind of behavior, and they took the company up on it. They shouldn’t be told to go back and defend themselves now.

        1. Observer*

          The problem with this is that this is a safety issue, not a personal preference issue

          Not always.

          I *do* agree with you, though, that if they feel uncomfortable because of safety that’s a different issue. And, the LW (and everyone else) absolutely needs to trust the victim’s judgement here.

          They shouldn’t be told to go back and defend themselves now.

          Of source this should not be a necessary conversation. But the reality here is that regardless of the company’s official process, Clara – a senior person here, has pretty much made it clear that in her book it’s not “really” harassment unless someone explicitly tells him to knock it off.

          Of course this is gross, ridiculous, legally problematic, and actually not the way this stuff works with reasonable people. But it’s also the reality that the LW is working with.

          Now, it’s a good thing that the LW told Clara that Ben cannot say those things. But the reality is that Clara is not likely to take that as seriously as she should. And if that happens, and thus the harassment continues, it’s going to be helpful if Amy and the other women tell him explicitly to stop or come back to LW and HR and say explicitly “I was afraid to tell him to bug off.”

          The point here is that if the behavior continues, everyone (unfortunately) needs to do what they can to deny Clara and Ben (what they think) is plausible deniability.

  22. No Longer a Bookkeeper*

    Ugh, I’ve worked with a couple Bens in the past and they’re the worst. A few years ago I stopped wearing my favorite shirt to work because a coworker told me it was HIS favorite shirt every. single. time. I wore it. But if I had ever commented on it, I’m sure I would’ve heard about how men can’t compliment women anymore and I was just being too sensitive.

    I had one boss who was really great with compliments – he always said he liked my shoes/ scarf/ earrings and I appreciated that it had nothing to do with my body or how it looks in whatever clothes I was wearing. It’s so insulting when men are flabbergasted women can tell the difference between “That’s a cool shirt!” and “You look hot in that shirt.” It turns out when you’ve been objectified your whole life, you can tell when someone’s objectifying you! Apparently this is rocket science to the Bens of the world.

    1. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      100%. The way to compliment women is to say something nice about something she has chosen. Basically, it’s a compliment about STYLE, not a compliment about the person’s body.

      The purpose of a compliment is to make someone else feel good. If you’re not making someone else feel good, you’re doing it wrong.

    2. Elizabeth West*

      This is how I try to compliment people at work — “You did good work on Project Monkeypants.” “That’s an awesome shirt; I really like the color.” “Haha, your document joke was funny!”

    3. Hannah Lee*

      “It turns out when you’ve been objectified your whole life, you can tell when someone’s objectifying you! Apparently this is rocket science to the Bens of the world.”

      Oh, it really isn’t. They are just choosing to pretend the clear lines between treating someone respectfully, like a whole person, and objectifying them, are fuzzy, blurred lines. Because it gives them an excuse to be jerks.

  23. I want to be Taylor's bridesmaid*

    OP, does Clara know about Ben taking a picture of Amy? That is definitely a red flag.

    I think people have to shut Ben down immediately when he makes comments and behaviors like this to Amy right away.
    Also tell Amy that she doesn’t have to engage with Ben outside of work-related matters.

  24. FluterDale*

    I am just … so tired of this behavior in the workplace, and the people who excuse it.

    I spent half of yesterday trying to figure out how I could condense my (very similar) workplace experiences into an AAM email, only to realize the advice would just be, “This isn’t a fixable culture, you need a new job.”

    It’s exhausting.

  25. Happily working from home*

    I do hope the letter writer is able to get this addressed. There is no excuse for this kind of behavior. In one of my first jobs after college, I watched a young secretary continually get harassed by a manager from a different group. I alerted my bosses to it and they just shrugged. It was nothing to shrug about – we’re talking seriously awful stuff. She ended up leaving the company. He ended up becoming President of the company a few years later. I really thought the world has changed since then, but lately I’m starting to doubt it.

  26. Heffalump*

    It’s unfortunate that Amy didn’t say no when Ben asked to take her picture, but presumably she didn’t feel that she could.

      1. Butterfingers*

        This is so true but let’s not be afraid to remind people that they have agency!
        To all people: if you don’t want someone to do something to you, you should always be willing to say so – particularly when they actually ask. In fact, I would say you gave a duty to stand up for yourself. Normalize that shit.

        1. Phone Voice*

          WE do have agency, but it’s not unlimited. For the first decade or so that I worked I didn’t push back on workplace harassment because I was afraid of being called rude and unfriendly and thus of losing my job.

          1. Kay*

            I do think there is value in hearing its okay to say no but I also think it would help if we figured out earlier on in our lives/careers how to do it and deploy it comfortably and with minimal consequences. It also helps seeing it deployed in action by others. The obvious best case would be a zero tolerance policy for the bad behavior, but alas…

    2. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

      How would that have changed things? Ben is the problem. If Amy said no, he might do it anyway. Or decide to hide out to snap a photo. Or come up with some new gross thing. Because HE’S ALREADY BEING GROSS. The photo came after the “you’re so beautiful” crap.

      Amy is not the problem. The victim is not the problem. The gross man is the problem. The perfect response to get creeps to leave you alone doesn’t exist.

  27. Thane of Caldor*

    As someone who’s not ND, I’ve never heard that it can be used as an excuse for bad behavior, so this is all very surprising to me. It just doesn’t make any sense

    I think some of it just managers don’t want to deal with difficult issues so they try pushing it down the road

  28. BPL*

    Let’s assume that Ben is neurodivergent and has difficulty either realizing his behavior is wrong/ sexual harassment, or has difficulty not sexually harassing Amy.

    If we are to make that assumption, I would say that it would be even *more* reason why this needs to be addressed and he needs to be talked to/with about this. It would be a service to Ben to be informed that his behavior is being “misinterpreted” and taken the “wrong” way.

    Of course he would not want to make Amy or others comfortable!
    Of course he would not want to be harassing Amy or others!
    Of course he would want to be professional and treat others with respect.
    Of course he does not want to “come off the wrong way”.

    Being informed about these misunderstandings could only help him improve his behavior and improve his professional life. It is only the kind thing to do for Ben.

  29. JSPA*

    Use the default “if you’re standing on my foot because…” language adapted to say “if he’s standing on her / their feet because…”

    He doesn’t really “see” feet? OK, he needs to cut a wide enough berth to avoid feet.

    He runs fast and ends up on feet? OK, he needs to slow down until he doesn’t stand on feet at work, ever.

    He has spasms that cause him to jump and land on feet? He needs to allow extra space. Because it can’t happen at work.

    Standing on feet is a general mark of appreciation in his private universe? Interesting. Still can’t do it at work.

    If you do something once, and get called on it, you apologize and stop. If you do it repeatedly, it’s not an accident, you can’t merely apologize each time– the behavior has to stop.

    If he wouldn’t say it to a guy his age, or to the mayor, or to his parents, he has the ability to not say it to young women coworkers. This isn’t random blurting.

    I’d actually fire him for taking pictures, unless he can produce the name and photo of the doppelganger (and maybe even then). Nothing about this seems harmless. Someone can have ADHD and be a creep; no fair making this “about” ADHD, and heck no, to buying any ADHD- related excuses for why he’s doing it, or can’t stop.

  30. CommanderBanana*

    Aaah yes, another member of the “He Has [Insert Whatever The Mental Thing Du Jour Is] So It’s Ok And Also You’re Bad and Wrong For Being Upset About Being Harrassed/Stalked/Assaulted” Brigade has ridden in.

      1. Hannah Lee*

        And also the “if you didn’t want to be harassed, why were you …. in that workplace corridor alone … wearing that cute top … smiling when you said good morning to him… etc etc” crew.

  31. HonorBox*

    Sexual harassment is not a symptom of a medical diagnosis. Ben has sexually harassed two women who have reported it. How many have not reported it?

    At the very least, Ben needs to be told clearly and explicitly to stop. He needs that conversation now, because now it isn’t just a Ben problem. It is a problem for the business. They know of the problem and are just as open to any sort of larger complaint if they don’t take swift and effective action.

    LW, I think I’d suggest going back to the two who reported Ben’s behavior. See what’s happened since you had a conversation with Clara, and if Ben has made any additional comments. Then go above Clara if nothing has been done or if Ben has continued to make comments. The company has a responsibility, and you need to ensure that you are taking action to ensure that happens.

    1. cottagechick56*

      A big second to “How many have not reported it?” It’s almost guaranteed that other staff members have been the receiving end of Ben’s icky comments. And many of those members could have just left the company since its apparent that no one is taking this seriously. Why beat my head against the wall, when I can just leave?

    2. Observer*

      Ben has sexually harassed two women who have reported it. How many have not reported it?

      That was my first thought. And I’d be willing to be that there are many others.

      LW, bring this up when you talk to HR.

      Point out that other people see what is happening. They surely know at this point that both Amy and one other woman have come forward. If they see that nothing happens, then they will *not* come forward. But they *are* more likely to sue down the line. And they will win because the can say that they saw that nothing happened when two women complained.

  32. Abogado Avocado*

    LW, go to HR immediately with this complaint. And, to protect yourself, put it in writing. It doesn’t matter that Amy didn’t go to her supervisor with this harassment complaint. Indeed, given her supervisor’s response to you, it’s probably the reason she didn’t. So, go to HR, let them know that you received the complaint, what you told Clara, and that you wanted to be sure this was reported to them so that the organization is protected. (I know: you really want to be sure that appropriate action is taken to protect Amy because you can’t really trust Clare in this situation. But if you tell HR that you’re protecting the org, Clare will look ridiculous getting upset because a manager’s job includes protecting the org.)

  33. Suz*

    Several years ago I had a similar experience. A woman who worked in another facility than I did told me she was being sexually harassed by one of the men in her lab. She’d reported it to her manager and he said he’d talk the the harasser about it but nothing changed. I went to HR with it and the guy was fired the next day. Turns out he’d been harassing another woman at that facility too.

    Her manager had been mine before he transferred to her lab and I was promoted into his former position. I was surprised he didn’t do anything to stop it. When I worked for him I thought he’d be someone I could trust if something like that ever happened to me. To say I was disappointed in him would be a huge understatement

  34. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

    Ben’s supervisor and/or HR need to make it very clear to him, in person AND in writing, that he is not to stare at women in the office or talk with them about anything but work. Yes, other people can talk about sports or music with them, but HE has shown a pattern of poor judgment and needs to focus on his work until he can treat others, even the hot ones, with professional courtesy and respect. If he needs further training, he can seek it out himself.

  35. Crencestre*

    Clara may have misunderstood/misinterpreted the ADA; having a disability does NOT give you a free pass to harass ANYONE for ANY reason AT ALL! However, Clara may be afraid that if anyone in that company sets any limits for Ben – such as holding and documenting a supervisory meeting about this problem, putting him on a PIP if his inappropriate behavior continues, and ultimately firing him if he won’t stop harassing Amy (or anyone else) – that he’ll claim discrimination on the grounds of his disability, sue the company and flood social media with posts about how MEAN the company is to poor li’l disabled people like himself. Ben actually wouldn’t have a legal leg to stand on if he did the latter, but Clara is probably terrified of the potential fallout and bad publicity for the company.

    1. Observer*

      I don’t buy it. But if she does actually think that, then she’s probably too incompetent to hold that position. And *minimum* she needs a thorough training on what the ADA actually requires.

  36. Popinki*

    He didn’t want to send that picture of Amy to his friend; he wanted it so he could fap to it, and that’s a thought that makes me want to throw up everything I’ve eaten since last year.

    God forbid Ben escalates his creepy-ass behavior to stalking or flat-out assault. How would Clara excuse him then? Does she expect the police to accept “oh, that’s just how he is” when it gets out that she knew and did nothing?

    OP, I’m glad Amy and the other coworker have you in their corner.

    1. nerd_bird*

      Good grief, I think my brain just skipped over that implication because it was too appalling to think about directly. Time for the brain bleach!

    2. JSPA*

      I thought that “most likely” scenario went without saying! Thus the “quick firing if he can’t prove the [unlikely] existence of the school friend clone. (Who sounded a LOT like a “girlfriend in Canada.”)

      Hmmm ..has anyone actually met his wife, for that matter?

  37. Jenn*

    HR at a large hospital I worked at told me that sexual harassment was a cultural issue and we should have a diversity potluck to deal with it. Ah yes, the known culture of telling your coworker her breasts are too large for a certain size uniform top in a team meeting and asking her if she’s wearing a bikini to the company retreat randomly in the hallway. And that other culture our boss was from where it’s entirely acceptable to use a comment about specific female endowment to determine what size replacement uniform tops we order.

    1. StephChi*

      I’m just absolutely flabbergasted by this. What in the actual fuck? Sounds like it was a job for an employment lawyer to straighten out the idiots in your HR department. It’s good to be culturally sensitive to people, but not to the extent that you’re handwaving away sexual harassment as culturally acceptable behavior.

      1. Jenn*

        It was quite some time ago and to make it worse HR told the perpetrators who accused them and we got iced out pretty badly. The other woman who make the complaint got sick of it and decided to turn it around on me and become besties with the perps to stop the retaliation. I ended up getting transferred to another location after my boss accused me of some weird stuff I didn’t do. I didn’t dare go back to HR. At the same job I broke my hand working and occupational health was closed. Their nurse on call told me if I went to the ER I would be responsible for the bill and made me wait until the next day for an exam. It was an absolutely wild place to work.

  38. thequill*

    Leaving aside the ridiculousness of the ADHD comment (as other commenters have more than covered it), I wanted to add a personal anecdote that I hope the LW finds helpful.

    I had a bit of a similar situation in that one of our newer, younger employees (basically a recent grad) was having trouble with another (recent grad)–basically boundaries had gotten blurred because they’d become friends, but when she’d tried to re-establish them and be firmer he was not getting the message. It had gotten to the point where she was very uncomfortable with the situation. I heard about it at social after-work drinks. I was a manager, but not her manager, but I told her I would handle it.

    I took it to the mangers above me, one of whom was out of the office that week so didn’t have much capacity to deal with it, and the other seemed a little reluctant to deal with it head on. He took it to HR, but we were nearing the end of the week and a big work social event was happening (with alcohol) and I really wanted to get ahead of the situation and say something to ensure everyone felt safe, and there wasn’t much action happening from those above me. So I kept pushing the in-office manager above me, who eventually offered to let me have the conversation with him myself as a “learning experience” (lol). Since I didn’t really think the employee’s manager had the experience or capacity to handle that conversation with him super well, and it didn’t look like anyone else was proactively handling it, I said yes and did it myself. It was tough (he was not a bad guy and he was upset to realise he’d been missing social cues), but I just stuck to the line that while I understood he had no ill intent, he still needed to pull things back and let her lead the social interactions from now on.

    The following Monday there was a bit of fallout when HR finally got across it all and the other manager was back in office, because the younger employee had weaponised mental health and gone to them with his hurt feelings. They said I should’ve waited for them to handle it etc etc.

    The thing is, I don’t regret stepping in for a second. I know I handled it with grace and care, and he had support from the other manager when he needed it–his hurt feelings weren’t the end of the world. Regardless of anything else, I know I protected a young woman, I know I did the right thing by her and made her feel safe. His mental health was not an allowance to make her uncomfortable.

    And she came to me later and thanked me profusely for the way I handled it, how she felt so supported and how (in a very male dominated industry) she felt like I’d given her more hope for her career going forward knowing that people will protect you and make the workplace safe. I also got the tick of approval from my C-level exec when he heard about it later.

    Bottom line is–don’t leave this where it is. Fight for what you know is right. Women (especially young women) are socialised to keep the peace and tolerate far more than they should in order to save men’s feelings. Show them they don’t have to do that in their workplace and use the power you have to protect people. You won’t regret it.

  39. DramaQ1015*

    Did she walk you through what this diversity potluck would look like?

    I just blew a fuse trying to figure out just the mental gymnastics required to reach the point where they decided this was the logical solution.

    1. Jenn*

      We would all bring in dishes from our respective cultures because it was a VERY diverse staff and talk about what they meant to us. It was so weird I thought I was dreaming. Oddly enough when I got transferred to another location due to retaliation (see above comment) the staff there was just as diverse, but the manager was AMAZING and we all got along extremely well. We even had a voluntary Thanksgiving potluck because we actually did want to share cultures, but not as a solution to sexual harassment.

  40. Cosmerenaut*

    He took that picture so he could have an AI program remove those pointless annoying clothes. If he’s forced to surrender his phone to HR in the ensuing investigation and this *isn’t* the case I will treat everyone in the comments section to a cheap ass rolls buffet.

    1. Indolent Libertine*

      I am so here for the CAR buffet, and I will bring a single pat of butter for all of us to share.

  41. Lady Knittington*

    I wonder if Clara doesn’t want to do anything about the harassment because she’s concerned that people will judge her for being ‘prejudiced’ against someone who’s neurodiverse.

  42. Morning reader*

    Did anyone else notice that Clara also outed this guy as having a disability? (Actually, I’m not sure he does; she was either making it up or got the diagnosis wrong. Or maybe he was making it up when he told her that.) I think she should be reported too. Who runs around telling employees about other employees’ medical conditions?

    1. Hyaline*

      Yes, I came here to say exactly this. It might feel like a side issue, but it’s a problem, too. Clara shouldn’t be blabbing about someone’s diagnosis with another person. And if it’s *not* a formal diagnosis–that is, she’s assigning this label to him without him disclosing anything to her–ugh, also very bad. She is either speculating/making up and spreading false information about a disability, or she is sharing medical information shared in confidence. Both bad.

      Basically Clara is setting her entire bed on fire right now.

  44. nerd_bird*

    Accommodations for neurodivergence do not include making someone else put up with your sexual harassment. Signed, fellow ADHD-er

  45. June*

    Can we please stop blaming abusive, SH behavior on being ND? This guy knows he’s a creep. And there is no “friend”who looks like her.

    1. Observer*

      I agree with the first half of your comment.

      But, I also think that the second half is really irrelevant. It does not matter whether he has a girlfriend, and AI avatar, an imaginary girlfriend or none of the above. All of these scenarios are gross. And asking her to take a picture was just incredibly out of line.

  46. Too old for this nonsense*

    Remember when folks would sometimes use the term “Asperger’s Syndrome” instead of “autism”?

    My bet is that Clara got ADHD mixed up with Asperger’s, and was trying for a “Schrödinger’s Autist” excuse for Ben’s actions.

    She’s still wrong. In fact, she’s doubly wrong.

  47. Queer femme with ADHD*

    I usually don’t comment on things while I feel angry but as a queer femme with ADHD, who has experience sexual harassment at work, reading this sent my blood pressure through the roof. How dare Clara say that?

    Excuses like this are thrown out way too often for harassing or abusive nehaviour. But what about all the people on the receiving end of it? Do we not matter to the Claras of this world?

  48. I DK*

    Wait a minute … LW is a manager, he may not be Ben’s manager, but as a manager in general why isn’t he telling Ben “Hey, knock this shit off.”?

Comments are closed.