employee falls asleep in meetings, office party is at a bar where there’s a bikini photo of me, and more

by Alison Green on November 20, 2025

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. Employee keeps falling asleep in meetings

I have an employee who joined the team about 10 months ago. He is a good contributor so far, but I’ve noticed he has a bad habit of drowsing off during afternoon meetings, especially ones that are within an hour after lunch. I brought it up to him once about 2-3 months after he joined the team, and told him frankly that it was unprofessional and not acceptable. He agreed and said that he would work on getting better. But in the past month I’ve noticed it happening again. He’s also a bit older (maybe early 60’s though I don’t know his exact age) — not that age changes anything, but maybe makes him more susceptible to post-lunch food coma?

I’ll likely bring it up again in my next one-on-one with him next week, but I’m concerned about things possibly backsliding again. Any ideas on what to do if that happens?

Just be direct! “We talked about this previously, but I’ve noticed it’s happening again. If there are things we can do on our end to help, I’m very open to them, but I do need you to get it under control permanently, not just temporarily.”

But also think about whether there are tweaks you can make that would help. For example, it’s probably not realistic to avoid all afternoon meetings but since he otherwise does good work, is there any room for reshuffling things in a way that would minimize this without much inconvenience (like if there’s one meeting where it always happens and that meeting could easily be before lunch rather than after)? Are your meeting rooms too warm? Sufficiently stocked with caffeine? Can you encourage people to stand or move around during meetings if they need to?

I’m not saying this is on you to solve — he’s an adult who has to figure out how to manage his own energy patterns (or needs to raise it if there’s a medical issue he needs accommodations for) — but there’s no harm in being thoughtful about small tweaks that could help.

2. My office party is in a bar with a photo of me in a bikini on the wall

My director is taking out our team for a staff party and dinner at a local bar in a couple of weeks. The problem I have is that on the wall of that bar they have a bunch of pictures of the winners of their annual bikini contest. I won the contest in 2010 when I was in college and there’s a huge picture of me in my bikini on the wall and my name listed below on a gold colored plate. Should I consider not attending the event or perhaps begging HR to force them to move the event? Maybe I should just go and if the picture is noticed make a joke about it? Do you think anything bad would happen if my colleagues see a younger me in a bikini?

Well … if you work in a male-dominated field or just a particularly sexist or conservative one, it’s not great; that’s a context where it’s risks being really unhelpful to have your coworkers see you in the sort of sexualized way bikini contest winners tend to be portrayed in photos that hang on bar walls. (In other words, it’s not just the bikini itself; it’s the social framing around the photo.) If you don’t work in a male-dominated, conservative, or sexist field, it might not be a big deal, particularly since it’s from 15 years ago.

But if you do … any chance you could just ask the bar to take it down? A lot of people would be happy to oblige if you showed up and said, “My whole office is about to come here for a staff party in a week and I really don’t want them seeing a huge photo of me in a bikini; can you take it down for now?”

3. I was promised a monthly schedule, but it changes weekly

I’m two months into a new job as a full-time AV technician at an events venue. I’ve been doing similar jobs for the past few years on a freelance basis. I’m well accustomed to the demands of irregular and unpredictable hours. Before this role, I was often booked for a job the night before or day-of. This work is not my passion but it’s related to my love for making music and performing. I see this as my priority and work as a means of facilitating my passion. I’m in my 20s, if you couldn’t tell!

When I took this job, I was told by the COO in the interview that my working hours would be irregular from Monday to Sunday (anything from 7 am to 1 am) but by consolation I would be given my rota a month in advance. However, to my surprise, on my first day my manager said I would be given my rota weekly. That is, on a Saturday for the following week.

Despite my familiarity with irregular hours, I’m struggling with not being able to plan my personal commitments. When I was self-employed, I had the freedom to refuse work. In spite of my great efforts, band rehearsals are falling to the wayside and I have not seen my friends the past two months. I can request days off but it does not look professional to do so frequently, nor would the requests be approved. (However, this is the best salary I have ever received and am determined to stick around and do well here.)

I have constructively brought this up with my manager, even suggesting that I write my own rota two weeks in advance for his approval, as the calendar is about 90% certain at this point. However, I am simply ignored. I’m aware flexibility is a necessary condition for working in busy events operations, but I feel I was misled in this respect. Do you have any suggestions for how to advocate for myself tactfully or how to learn to cope in my own way?

Yeah, this isn’t reasonable — you can’t make plans if you have to keep your schedule wide open until two days before each week starts and you can only infrequently request specific dates off.

Have you told your boss that the COO explicitly promised you in the interview that you’d have your schedule a month in advance? If so, and he doesn’t care, are the internal politics there such that you could go back to the COO and say, “We talked about this explicitly in my interview, but it’s turned out that I’m only getting my schedule two days before the week starts. Since you’d mentioned when I was being hired that I’d have a lot more notice, I wanted to check back with you about it.”

If that seems like a politically risky move, then I’d ask yourself: would you have taken the job if you’d had the correct info about the schedule from the start? If so, that’s one way to frame it for yourself — that this isn’t ideal and it particularly sucks that you were given bad info, but that it wouldn’t have stopped you from accepting regardless. Additionally, I wonder if it’s possible for you to negotiate one day a week that you’ll always have off (or even every other week) so that you have some ability to plan?

4. Should a CEO’s contract prevent them from being unfairly fired?

The firing of the CEO of the Philadelphia Museum of Art has roiled my nonprofit world. It’s gossipy in and outside Philadelphia partly because so many unusually specific details of the firing were included in the news — for “just cause” almost never is actually part of the press release! — and also because she was under contract and it seems like contracts are supposed to prevent leaders from being fired quickly like this.

Not withstanding the specifics of the situation, can you clarify how a contract does, or does not, protect employees from regular hiring and firing decisions?

It varies widely depending on exactly what’s in the contract, but it would be typical for a contract for that type of position to spell out what would be cause for firing, which would generally include things like ethics violations and failure to perform (as opposed to leaving it wide open like at-will employment typically does) and what terms would govern a separation (how much severance, etc.). It’s also common for a contract at that level to include two different separation packages: one if the person is fired for cause, like fraud or gross negligence, and a higher package if the reason is something more like bad chemistry with the board or the organization making a strategic shift.

In this case, it looks like the board is claiming they fired her at least in part for improper spending; depending on what that means in practice, the firing could definitely be allowed under such a contract (assuming there was real financial impropriety, not buying herself a fancy pen or something). Or it could be BS to cover up that they just didn’t like her and wanted her gone (which sounds like is at least partly the case).

5. Can I give one employee a larger bonus than the others?

I have a newish employee, Jane, who is amazing. She’s been with the company for about six months. Jane inherited a messy situation from her predecessor, who was a poor fit for the role, and has not only cleaned that up, but also made significant improvements in our processes. She is trustworthy, reliable, hardworking, competent, and proactive. I feel really fortunate to have her on the team!

I try to give all my staff flexibility and perks in whatever ways I can manage, but Jane’s role is one of the least flexible on the team. (For example, other people are able to work remote, hybrid, or flex schedules, but she can’t, due to the nature of the role. Other people travel around our area for work and have company cars, but Jane is based in the office so she takes the bus.) It’s also the most junior role and pays the least.

We traditionally give bonuses at the end of the year, and I’d like to recognize Jane’s value and contributions to the company with a larger-than-normal bonus. I’m thinking $500-1,000 instead of $200-400. Is this a good idea even if I won’t be able to match it next year, the year after, etc.? Is it fair to my other staff, who are also wonderful and hardworking, but who get paid more and enjoy more perks year-round?

I don’t want to create bad feelings with other staff if people decide to discuss their bonuses (which may happen), and I also don’t want to set an expectation that I can’t live up to in subsequent years. But I feel strongly that Jane deserves recognition for how much she’s contributed thus far, and money is the best way to do that.

Note: We also give raises, and I fully expect to raise Jane’s salary, but she won’t be eligible until she completes her first year of employment.

You absolutely can give Jane a larger than normal bonus in recognition of her good work; that’s a very common and normal thing to do. You’d want to be prepared to explain the discrepancy if anyone asks about it, but it sounds like you’d be able to do that easily (she’s done an phenomenal job and she has the least flexible and lowest-paying role on the team).

To avoid setting Jane up to expect it every year, you can say something like, “Our year-end bonuses are typically less than this, but you’ve done such a fantastic job this year under difficult circumstances that I wanted you to get some special recognition for that.”

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    2. Nodramalama*

      I thought LW meant that other people travel around for their work so they get a company car, but Janes job doesn’t require that.

      1. Terrestrial Isopod*

        If she takes the bus to work – just have work pay for the bus pass already.

        It’s an easy way to get her at least ONE non-trivial and useful perk. It demonstrates some awareness of, and goes to a little effort to mitigate, the “perk differential” OP#5 is talking about.

        1. Amateur Limguist*

          It might be taxable though. Company cars come with a lot of strings attached in terms of tax because in the UK at least they’re seen as a ‘benefit in kind’. So paying for something like a normal commute (as opposed to work mileage) attracts financial penalties that would be awkward for the recipient to pay out. As it would be essentially paying them in goods and services that aren’t breakable down into fungible chunks like money is, the recipient would still be charged for the tax on it unless there’s a dedicated salary sacrifice scheme in place.

          As someone who has been in Jane’s position, being included in the bonus scheme at all would be a huge perk. Despite paying slightly more tax on it than I might otherwise have done for the month, an NHS-wide bonus in 2023 for our work during the pandemic was pretty nice. We got almost £2000, and although being on 25 hours at the time and thus seeing it both pro-rated and taxed, it paid for a really comfortable gaming chair and a trip away to a great theme park.

            1. Amateur Limguist*

              No, it was accompanied by a pay rise. There were two parts to it — the bonus and the slight rise.

              The £1400 flat rate increase the year before was the pay rise; it favoured the lower paid, but it was a good percentage for me as one of those lower paid workers.

              In any event, my post above is wrong — in the UK, subsidised transport is exempt from Benefit in Kind rules. I’ve posted a link below, but I’m happy that I’m wrong.

              1. Amateur Limguist*

                Looking it up: the non-consolidated payment was an award for 2022-23 paid in mid 2023, and there was a pay rise based on band, which again favoured the lower paid workers. The raise for 2022-23 was the flat £1400, because it was brought in by Boris Johnson who was kicked out in 2022 (typical back of the envelope maths for him, but something that really made a difference at the time).

                It’s complicated but the rises in those couple of years were targeted at people on lower bands, so it might have seemed less lucrative for those on higher bands. But — trust me — it helped us out no end.

          3. Seeking Second Childhood*

            So what if its taxable! It’s still a perk even if she has to pay her taxrate% portion. Without it she’s paying the entire portion out of pocket!

          4. Observer*

            It might be taxable though

            It probably is. Still useful.

            Company cars come with a lot of strings attached in terms of tax

            In the US you have to pay tax.

          5. MCMonkeyBean*

            Huh? Yes she would likely be taxed on anything that counts as income but obviously the tax paid on it would be less than the amount she would have spent on it herself. “Don’t pay people because they’ll have to pay tax on it” is an odd stance…

          6. Gumby*

            It is, largely, not taxable in the US. Up to a certain limit. I direct you to IRS Publication 15-B (2025), Employer’s Tax Guide to Fringe Benefits. The current limit is $325/month.

            In my state most employers are required to have some sort of program to encourage carpooling / public transit / biking. Basically anything other than commuting to work in your car by yourself. Many times that means company-paid bus or train passes. At the very least the ability to buy your own using pre-tax dollars.

        2. Reluctant Porcupine*

          I think that’s incredibly odd. Also, if I were the only person who commuted by bus, and a lower-paid person, who was getting that kind of special subsidy, I would feel very uncomfortable about it.

            1. Emmy Noether*

              For people who have a company car that they can use to get to and from work also, the employer does effectively subsidize their commute.

              (The way I’ve seen the “benefit in kind” aspect of this handled was that the employee has to keep track of how many km they drive for work and how many privately.)

              Many places encourage the employer subsidizing public transport passes by making it a tax free benefit. It will probably have to be offered to everyone, though.

              1. Another One*

                My employer effectively subsidizes my commute by providing free bike parking. It isn’t seen as a “benefit” that’s taxable because it’s a security measure and is handle by the college’s public safety group.

                But it has the same effect because the cost of getting to and from work is minimal (beyond however much you spend on your bike and your lock.)

            2. Elinor Dale*

              Where I live, many companies pay public transport passes for their employees. It’s even tax-privileged.

              1. MigraineMonth*

                Yup, my organization provides free public transit passes to any employee who requests one, plus a few days of free parking passes for the garage. It saves the organization money, since the alternative is a heavily subsidized garage pass, and downtown parking garages aren’t cheap.

              2. sparkle emoji*

                Yes, LW 5’s company sounds small and Jane may be the only bus user, but at larger orgs in good public transit areas it’s fairly common for commuter benefits(includes discounted transit passes) to be a benefit employees can opt into(for a fee rather than a gift).

            4. Sutemi*

              My company explicitly pays for transit: if you drive they pay $ for parking, if you take the train or subway they pay $ for it. They also pay for yearly passes on the local bike share. All of this is a pre-tax benefit.

            5. metadata minion*

              Free or subsidized public transit passes are a pretty common benefit in the US, at least in areas that have good public transit. It’s not something I’d *expect* from a job, but it’s easily in the top ten standard nice perks that companies offer. In some areas the city/state/other municipal jurisdiction offers tax breaks to employers offering subsidized transit.

              1. Smithy*

                I came here to say this. It’s not an expectation, but it’s also not abnormal in the US. I used to work somewhere that gave staff additional money every month based on the calculation of how much it would take them to take public transportation to work. But then I’ve also seen monthly passes covered.

                I do think the way this perk is baked into some workplaces – it’s 100% not on the expectation, particularly because other workplaces have a system where you can deduct transportation costs pre-tax. But it’s not wildly outside the norm.

              2. londonedit*

                I’m not sure how common they are these days, because people mainly just use their contactless bank cards to pay for London transport and a lot of people aren’t in the office five days a week and therefore don’t necessarily use a travelcard or season ticket, but every company I’ve worked for has offered a travelcard or season ticket loan scheme. Paying for a one-year travelcard or train company season ticket in one go is expensive, but it’s also the cheapest way of paying for your travel, so companies will offer a loan where you can borrow the cost of your travelcard/season ticket, and then repay that in instalments out of your monthly salary.

            6. Seeking Second Childhood*

              I worked for a company that did cover a large % of a commuter van-pool. It was an effective way to recruit from a nearby city even though the company was outside the public transit zone. City residents often did not have cars, and the company had competitors on standard bus routes.

              (The vans themselves originate with a state sponsored program.)

            7. epicdemiologist*

              My employer and my husband’s employer both charge employees for parking at work. (US, a state agency and a nonprofit.)

            8. Kara*

              Some companies do. And some companies will subsidize it. For example, the company I work for allows you to set up a pre-tax account for commuter funds (similar to a healthcare HSA or FSA) and if you contribute a certain amount of your own each year, the company will match it. It’s not an uncommon perk, especially in big cities with reasonable public transportation or where parking is expensive.

            9. MigraineMonth*

              I worked at a 10,000-person company that not only provided free transit passes for every employee, it paid the city to send a bus out to the campus three times in the morning and three times in the evening.

              Considering how much that company spent building underground parking garages for all the car commuters, they probably considered the bus expense negligible.

            10. Dasein9 (he/him)*

              Many companies do pay for folks’ commute in dense urban areas with robust transit systems.

            12. louvella*

              Well except for alllllll the companies that pay for a free bus pass which has been more than 50% of my workplaces.

          2. Myrin*

            I’m from a place where employers paying for your commute – be that by paying for special public transport passes or a subsidy for petrol respectively – isn’t that unusual but even here, that’s still a perk you either pay everyone or no one; it would be very strange to only have a select group of people receiving this kind of “extra” (with the possible exceptions of student workers, that’s one I’ve encountered before).

            1. Chocolate Teapot*

              Before all our public transport was made free, companies would often offer a benefit to reimburse bus/local train passes. The idea was to promote being environmentally friendly, but it was a nice extra.

            2. DJ Abbott*

              Where I live, there’s a benefit where the employer can take money for the transit pass from my pay before taxes and give to the transit company. So I still pay for transit, but save about $15 a month in taxes.
              This benefit is available to everyone of course, but people who drive to work don’t use it.

              1. Another One*

                We have the same benefit but it can also be used for parking. Which- being a large city and paid parking is essentially the only option unless you get limited employer parking- is really popular.

            3. Kit Kendrick*

              In this case the company can offer a subsidy for mass transit, knowing that only one person is likely to take advantage of a subsidized monthly bus pass.

              My own company offers a pre-tax flexible transport account for parking or train costs and also a two-year monthly ‘bonus’ for some employees who were moved from a location that had free parking and cheaper transit.

            4. MigraineMonth*

              Yes, I definitely think it should be structured as a perk that’s available to everyone in the worker’s situation: employees who don’t have a company car, employees who don’t have a company parking pass, employees below a certain salary threshold, etc.

              I think anyone with a company car who complained that someone else got *a free bus pass* should be considered a whiny loon.

              1. Terrestrial Isopod*

                YES. This.
                What in the world would be unfair (!) about not getting a bus pass, to the free-car-and-gas recipients?!

            5. Terrestrial Isopod*

              Give it to everyone to be … fair??!? Come on. Everybody else gets a company car.

              So offer it to everyone who isn’t getting a different company subsidy to commuting, then.
              Which would be … just Jane.

              1. Myrin*

                I said that that’s how it would happen where I live, not that I would specifically advocate for it (and I didn’t mention the word “fairness” anywhere).

                I also don’t know where you’re getting that Jane is literally the only person not having a company car/taking public transport – OP just says “other people”, and the way that sentence and the one before are structured, that decidedly reads like “some employees” to me.

          3. bamcheeks*

            Free/subsidised parking is, though. If all these company car people have access to free or cheap parking, then I think offering some kind of scheme to cover someone’s public transport or to enable them to use it at the most reduced rate (such as a loan to get an annual pass rather than daily tickets) is completely reasonable.

            2. Phone Voice*

              Yes, this. I’m a little surprised, actually, to see a public transit pass considered outside the pale but subsidized parking and company cars considered normal. There are widespread ideas, at least in much of the US, about the status of driving vs public transit, but that’s probably another discussion.

              1. MigraineMonth*

                Yeah, minimum required parking and other hidden car subsidies are all over the place. It’s frustrating that car bias is so ingrained that any tiny perk for non-drivers is scrutinized.

                At some point, economics do force companies to subsidize or promote other commuting methods, though. You see this particularly in cities where land is expensive (and underground parking garages are *expensive*. Even in my small town, though, one business ended up with parking lots large enough that they had to run a shuttle from the parking lot to the main building.

              2. louvella*

                It’s my understanding that the reason why free bus passes are such a common workplace perk (where I live in the US, anyway) is to discourage driving and needing parking.

          4. amoeba*

            It’s very common in my countries! Most bigger places offer some kind of subsidized “job ticket” for public transport. It’s offered for everybody though, I agree it would be weird to only offer it to Jane specifically. But phrasing it as “for everybody who doesn’t have a company car” would be considered pretty normal here.

            In my company, we have the choice between free parking and a (cheaper, not free) public transport ticket – and I believe people who need neither because they commute by bicycle can claim some money for bike maintenance, but I don’t know the details.

            1. Amateur Limguist*

              Yeah, there’s a Cycle to Work Scheme widely used in the UK that helps with that.

              I boobed with the public transport thing as it is definitely untaxed. You do, however, have to be careful with benefit in kind schemes in a lot of circumstances because there are situations where things get messy for both employee and employer and the gains are minimal (such as the UK WFH expenses scheme that settled out at 6p a month — £0.06 — which was available but almost no-one took up because it was a lot of hassle for sixpence. But it’s a nice surprise to be proved wrong on some of this.

              1. Amateur Limguist*

                (OK, again I’m wrong on the amounts but it’s still way too little for too much work and only applies if your company is totally remote and has no office, not for anyone who theoretically can WFH.)

              2. Seeking Second Childhood*

                Help! I can’t figure out what the autocorrupt is supposed to be. Either that or there’s a new verb in the slang world I need defined… and I’m not looking up “to boob” LOL

                1. Amateur Limguist*

                  Haha, sorry. It’s not autocorrect, it’s just (British?) slang for ‘messed up’.

                  I wasn’t aware it wasn’t known more widely. ..

            2. allathian*

              I’m in Finland, and for a few years we had a company bike scheme, which the current government unfortunately discontinued last year. But the idea was that the employer would pay for the bike, its maintenance, etc. until the lease ran out, and after that you could buy it outright for a small percentage of the original price. E-bikes were very popular.

          5. Laggy Lu*

            It’s very common in the US to have pre-tax plans for commuting costs, whether it’s by train, bus or car (parking only, not gas/upkeep).

          6. Observer*

            Also, if I were the only person who commuted by bus, and a lower-paid person, who was getting that kind of special subsidy, I would feel very uncomfortable about it.

            Most people are not so delicate about this stuff, in my experience. Generally, people who are the lowest paid with the fewest benefits are not going to feel uncomfortable with a subsidy that makes a real difference to their finances. The main exception are the people who have adopted an idea that there is something shameful about not being a high earner / being in tight economic circumstances.

            In my experience, it’s people who are higher on the scale that are uncomfortable with singular benefits. Of course, there are the people who are the reverse – they are higher up so they *deserve* the extra perks unlike the people who are not as special as they are (or just have a “tough luck” attitude towards others.)

            1. Amateur Limguist*

              Yeah, but we’ve seen that some people can be touchy on threads here where they do resent perks given to people for coming into the office.

              They shouldn’t be, but they are.

          7. louvella*

            I’ve gotten a free bus pass at more than half of my jobs. Why would I feel weird about it? That’s such a normal perk.

          8. What_the_What*

            But how would she know? I mean that’s a weird thing to talk about. I have no idea how my coworkers get to work, except for a few that I see walk to their cars or get picked up out front by presumably a partner, but could be a rideshare I suppose. But even if she did, why would she feel weird? “They all get a company car; how nice the company recognzed that I also need transportation and helped me out!” would seem the more reasonable response. It’s not charity.

    3. Momma Bear*

      100% – at one of my previous companies they paid for parking for some folks but refused to give another employee the equivalent in transit money. Unsurprisingly, she quit. Jane getting a bus pass would be very reasonable.

    4. tina turner*

      I’d give her the standard bonus but tell her when she gets her review there will be a separate one then. It distinguishes it, should anyone find out. You can list some reasons at the review, too.

    5. Liu1845*

      Excellent suggestion! Or consider giving her the regular bonus, and an additional, separate “special recognition” bonus/reward for her work on the special project she handled for you. My company did this. They had a three tier reward program, manager’s discretion as to the level awarded. We really appreciated it.

  2. Innie*

    And if the team does see the photo of you in the bikini, LW2, be proud. You won the contest! I bet it came with a nice prize!

    1. Nodramalama*

      Isn’t a bikini competition just about looking good in a bikini? I don’t know if id feel proud OR ashamed about winning the bikini competition over a decade ago.

      1. Allonge*

        Hey, it can take quite a lot of work (beyond luck!) to look good in a bikini. :)

        More importantly though: I think if the pic cannot be removed, the next best thing is for LW to have a light-but-positive response to people who ask, something like, yeah, that was a great time! and this may be easiest if it comes from a genuine good feeling about it (so, pride). Why not?

        1. Bathyphysa Conifera*

          I agree with light-but-positive.

          The photo reveals that she is not three owls in a trench coat. People probably knew that.

        2. morethantired*

          I would think it could be worth a try to call the bar, talk to the manager and explain the situation. You just want it gone or covered up for a few hours one night. I assume it’s not super glued to the wall. You’re not asking for all the bikini pics to be taken down. They could just tape a piece of paper over it. It doesn’t hurt to ask nicely. I bet they’d happily help LW out.

          1. wilma flintstone*

            I think whether the bar would be happy to take down/cover up the bikini photo depends a bunch on how sexist the management is. There are bars I know that would relish taking the photo down specifically to stage a ‘reveal’ of it while her coworkers are present. Because scantily clad women need to be kept in their place.

            1. Timelessgoldfish*

              That would be revealing in and of itself and worth requesting that no work events are held there again.

      2. Amateur Limguist*

        I’d take the win for what it was. When I was in my 20s I wasn’t exactly bikini contest material (I have legs like a hobbit), but there’s a reason I used a photo from 2004 as my Facebook profile for a long time after it was necessarily a true reflection.

        I’m glad, now I’ve started swimming again recreationally, that they sell different kinds of swimming costumes than just the standard strappy ones, and I feel comfortable in ones with shorts, but each to their own. I can understand why OP doesn’t want her colleagues to see it or notice it, but it’s nothing really to be ashamed of.

        1. Asloan*

          This letter reminded me of NCIS, where there was a photo of one of the agents who won a wet T-shirt contest in their younger years, I think displayed in a bar the team went to.

          1. Jennifer Strange*

            I thought of the same thing! Tony is on Spring Break with college friends and comes across a photo of Kate (that’s how old this episode is!) when she won a wet T-shirt contest at the bar.

        3. MigraineMonth*

          There are some great full coverage options available now (skirt and hair-cover optional). After a lifetime of needing to re-apply sunscreen every hour, it’s great to throw on an SPF-80 swimsuit that covers my arms and legs and only worry about my face/hands/feet.

          1. misselphaba*

            My husband who is as pale as the night is dark LOVES his SPF shirts for swimming/the beach/outdoor exercise. It’s so good for your skin too!

      3. Asloan*

        This letter reminded me of NCIS, where there was a photo of one of the agents who won a wet T-shirt contest in their younger years, I think displayed in a bar the team went to.

    2. NP*

      If it’s a local bar surely it’s common knowledge an employee’s bikini photo is prominently displayed on the wall already? Unless by coincidence no one in the office drinks or visits that specific local bar, which would seem unlikely.

      1. Adam*

        It depends on the circumstances. I’ve worked in places where there’s just one bar near work and everyone goes there, and I’ve worked in places where there are 10+ bars within a couple blocks of the office and so they’re differentiated by clientele and it’d be very unusual for anyone in my white collar office to set foot in the university student bar, for instance.

      2. Katydid*

        I was going to say, at the very least the boss who picked the bar has been there once or twice. Someone has probably already seen it!

        1. Magnolia Cordelia*

          I wonder if the boss picked the bar for THAT REASON.
          Yes, some people really are that gross.

          1. Fierce Jindo*

            That seems plausible to me. Why is a work event being held in a bar with bikini contest decorations at all?!

      3. Seeking Second Childhood*

        It also may be that a large group going to that place will have to gather and wait in the hall where the bikini competition photos are displayed. That would add a level of awkwardness!

      4. Allonge*

        Sure – still, a few people may have seen it is not the same thing as the entire team being there. Also, there is local and local: if there are two dozen bars in the vicinity, there may well be some that are never visited by anyone on the team.

      5. daffodil*

        I think you overestimate how observant people are; I could fully believe someone frequents a place but never took a close look at the bikini contest winner photos. I can also believe if it’s a good sized city (or university town) there are a lot of other options, explaining why this hasn’t come up for LW in the last 15 years.

        1. Not Everyone Can Wear Sandwiches*

          Also it’s a 15 year old photo, it’s probably way less obvious that it’s of the LW if someone sees it while getting a drink than if LW is also sitting next to it.

      1. Innie*

        Exactly! When I was in college one of the students posed for Playboy and won Student of the Year. We didn’t think less of her for posing nude, we thought good for her, she won a lot of money to pay for college.
        And if people do snigger at LW, she can remind them that they chose a bar with photos of bikini-clad women on the wall.

    4. The Office Druid*

      Yeah, my advice would be don’t overthink it. I mean unless you work in an office full of hard core pearl-clutchers, just shrugging and saying “College” is probably all the response needed, if anyone even brings it up.

    5. Pumpkin215*

      How big is the photo and where is it located in the bar? I know the LW describes it as “huge” but is there any possibility people would not notice it is her? My hair and body are VERY different from 15 years ago but is the likeness for her still obvious? Does she have a common name she can pass off as “that looks like me and the name says Jane Smith but but it is not me. Did you finish your TPS reports?”. I know I’m spit balling here.

      Does she still frequent the bar? That would make this part a little easier, but go into the bar a few days prior to the event and ask for a manger or the owner. Explain the situation. Ask nicely if they can temporarily take it down. Offer to assist with it, if possible. Tell them you are up for a promotion and you don’t want this it impact your career. Squeeze out a few tears, if necessary. Maybe find a female bartender to advocate with you. Place a large to-go order as a thank you.

      1. I own one tenacious plant*

        And if none of that works, ask if the work party can be seated out of direct eyesight of the photo. I agree with what others have said, people are often not that observant.

    6. Puggles*

      I’m wondering if this particular bar was chosen on purpose because the boss already saw it or someone else saw it and told him, and he wants to make sure everyone sees it, kind of in a passive agressive, sexist way to rib the LW.

  3. oaktree*

    I haven’t been in a job that offered bonuses for decades, but aren’t they usually based on some formula? Like, at a previous job, I think they used salary and years of service and that went into what proportion of the total bonus pool you got.

    1. Shipbuilding Techniques*

      At my job I was once specifically told not to discuss bonuses with others…in a year when I got a teenier bonus than I had ever thought possible. Boss claimed it was because of company performance, but I have a strong suspicion that others on the team were rewarded much more generously. So I don’t think they are always formulaic.

      1. Zarniwoop*

        “told not to discuss bonuses ”
        In the US it’s illegal to tell employees not to discuss salaries. Does anyone know if that applies to bonuses?

        1. Ana Gram*

          Just a quick clarification. It’s usually illegal to prohibit employees from discussing pay but there a lot of exceptions to that under the NLRA, especially if you’re a public sector employee.

          1. oaktree*

            Weird that there would be exceptions for public sector employees. I’m in the public sector and my salary is completely public. Thre are web sites that publish them every year, complete with my name and title.

            1. Ana Gram*

              Me too and that’s probably why public sector employees aren’t protected. Because we already basically are since salaries are public. Who knows? The government likes to exempt itself from its own rules.

              The other weird little exceptions include employers who work for a parent or spouse (lol ok) and something to do with railway employees. So strange.

      2. happy red panda*

        I once worked for a company that was questionable at best in how it treated it’s employees. My first year, I was handed an envelope with my holiday bonus inside and a bottle of wine. The second year, I got only the bottle of wine, no bonus. It’s how I figured out that they were looking to get rid of me. I was unexpectedly let go two weeks after new years. (I wasn’t on a PIP or otherwise had any idea why).

      3. starsaphire*

        One of my favorite Cathy cartoons (yes, I’m old):

        Cathy’s getting her holiday bonus. The Boss is telling her that her $150 bonus is a testament to all the hard work she’s been doing this year, and that it’s more than most employees are getting, so she has to keep mum about it. She’s smiling and promising to keep quiet.

        The final panel is one of her co-workers shouting, “I got $2000 for my Christmas bonus Cathy; how much did you get?”

        There’s generally a reason they don’t want us to talk about compensation, lol.

      4. Another One*

        even with formulas, there is always room for…errr…influence.

        i’m sure my employer has a formula for raises. i also know my department pushes it as much as possible.

        this past year during a freeze of allegedly all the things, at least some of us still get raises. were they tiny? but when you thought no one was getting raises because some departments were in gut mode, anything was amazing.

        (my department does things very uniquely for raises and salary. your direct manager has no influence over these beyond doing your review which may influence the numbers. i know more about my new hire’s salary than my former manager of a decade ever knew about my salary because i offered him the job so i told him the salary we were offering. all my manager knew was that i was paid- presumably in cash.)

        1. Gray Lady*

          Well, husband’s employer’s bonuses are strictly based on hourly rate. They announce the number of hours the bonus will be based on each quarter and for the annual. I don’t see any way that formula could be subject to shenanigans.

    2. Emmy Noether*

      Our formula also has the score from the performance review, so the way to get Jane more would be to give her a very high score.

      1. Amateur Limguist*

        Yeah, we’ve just had discussion over this but reviews are calibrated by regional HR people to ensure people are fairly compensated. What I’ve learned is that managers might give great reviews, but part of the bonuses are calculated on more objective metrics and people receiving high ratings (and lower ones) are put under a microscope. There’s also a computerised algorithm which handles the metrics side — a manager may be able to input scores but they don’t necessarily know the verdict until it comes out the other end.

        While it would be awesome to give Jane high marks and maybe she does deserve them, HR would really look at that score because — unfortunately — raises and bonuses for us come out of public money and we have to be scrupulous about justifying them. Maybe in other systems it’s easier to give people high scores without being questioned, and certainly if Jane is doing really well she should be rewarded. It’s just that in larger orga the process is more nuanced and subject to more calibration and it would be harder just to rubber stamp a generous rating in order to get someone a one-off award.

        As someone formerly in Jane’s position, the answer isn’t simple, but in any organisation where this is under scrutiny (particularly because of budgetary concerns) it would be hard to do this without HR approval. But then again, if Jane has earned enough on her metrics to get through all these hoops, then LW should go for it. But I wouldn’t take the processes designed to ensure fairness across the organisation for granted.

    4. amoeba*

      We do have a scheme to calculate salary increases and “bonuses” (which for us aren’t really bonuses but rather “variable compensation”, so officially part of your salary, but dependent on company performance and paid out end of year). However, in addition to that, we also have the option to give out one-time payments as rewards for good performance or for people who have, for instance, reached the end of their salary band. Those are pretty much up to managerial discretion, as long as they fit within the budget. I don’t believe I’ve ever seen one given in my department, they’re not used a lot, but it’s not an uncommon model to have even here!

    5. Katie*

      My company’s bonus is definitely factors in performance. They first factor in overall company performance (and whether they want to be cheap or not) and then individual performance. Years of service do not factor in at all.

    6. Chas*

      I’d imagine different companies might have different bonus structures, or maybe not even a structure at all! I work in UK academia so I don’t usually get bonuses, but when I have they’ve been in one of 2 situations:
      1: A higher-level manager/member of C-suite gives everyone in the Department/University the same bonus amount (Everyone got a £50 bonus as thanks for dealing with remote work during the pandemic)
      2: Our managers have to actively request a bonus for us, which is done on a group-by-group basis. (My coworker and I got £75 each after our group had a good result happen).

      As you can probably guess from number 2, the amount of bonuses people get can vary wildly, as they’re based on how good at understanding the admin side of it and proactive our managers are about getting them for us. (My previous boss would not even have known it was an option, let alone how to do it)

    7. Rory*

      Mine is 15% of my base, but then 80% of that is based on my individual contributions and the remainder is based on company performance. From there it can go up or down based on work performance. Rare to get higher than your “on paper” bonus at my company, but I’ve seen people get rewarded that way.

    8. LW5*

      LW here – This is a small company. We don’t have employee ratings, formal HR, compensation algorithms, or anything like that. Raises are within a range and based on performance, but there’s a lot of discretion.

      1. Amateur Limguist*

        Go for it then. Having been in Jane’s position, it would be a real sign of appreciation for a good year.

    9. Unpopular Opinion*

      At current job, Annual Bonus are based on a formula

      Company Goals (up to 50%) + Individual Goals (up to 50%) and folks in roles that doesn’t work then its X multiplied by years of service.

      However, managers still have discretion to give more they just have to provide a documented reason why (which you can)

    10. Cat Lady in the Mountains*

      Depends. It sounds like at LW’s company the bonuses are generally small and not a significant part of overall pay (as opposed to some industries where huge bonuses are the norm and more standardized). In my current role bonuses are capped at $1k, $500 is considered “standard,” but it’s at managers’ discretion.

    11. Mockingjay*

      My company does performance awards and annual bonuses.

      Bonuses are provided at the end of the year to everyone. It’s usually a couple of hundred dollars, distributed by a ranked formula. (I don’t think upper management gets it.)

      Awards are employee-nominated and provided quarterly. Amounts are calculated per effort (“above and beyond”) – there’s five levels with criteria clearly laid out and set payments for each. The highest level is several thousand dollars. I’ve received several low-level awards and one higher award (not the highest).

    12. Names are Hard*

      I’ve worked places that gave everyone the that was full-time the same amount (with part-time receiving less) and I’ve worked places with complex formulas used to weight years of service with performance. Just depends on the employer. And I did payroll, so I saw all the bonuses if there were any.

    13. Serin*

      As a data point, I used to work at a huge U.S. technology company. We had a profit-sharing thing that was very much distributed by formula, but in addition, my manager was given a pool of money to use for bonuses within his department, distributed as he chose.

      He did once tell me that his manager gently encouraged him to choose one or two people rather than spreading it evenly over the whole team (I don’t know why; maybe one large bonus is supposed to be more reinforcing/rewarding than 18 small ones?) but otherwise he had a lot of leeway.

    14. Education Mic*

      I work for a fortune 10 and we do: base salary*title*company performance*individual performance

      The title piece determines your target, eg managers target 12% bonus, senior managers get 15%, etc.

      Most people get a 3/5 in their performance review, which makes that multiplier a 1. If you get a 4/5 you get a 1.2, a 2/5 you get a .8, etc.

      If company performance is good, that multiplier might be 1.1 or 1.2. Last year our company did poorly and they changed… wait for it… everyone’s personal performance multiplier. So I got a 3/5 and it multiplied my bonus by .9 instead of 1. My boss said it was just because the company wasn’t doing as well. I asked why that wouldn’t be in the company multiplier and he had no answer. I assumed he was BSing me so I checked with a bunch of coworkers and apparently HR does this every time the company does poorly and bake it into individual performance multipliers, but tell people it’s not to do with their rating, rather than admit to the obvious face that our stock fell. Truly bizarre and idiotic.

      I’ve worked for a few big companies and they all used similar formulas. When I worked for a nonprofit in my 20s, my boss handed me an envelope with $200 and I was thrilled with that. I almost fainted when I got to business school and everyone around me thought a normal bonus for our age was about 1/4 of what my salary had been. I had no idea that was a thing anywhere.

  4. Nodramalama*

    Yeah LW2 I feel like if you’re concerned it’s a lot easier to ask the bar to take it down than involve your workplace.

    1. niknik*

      Also, as the one being in that photo, wouldn’t you have at least some pull on what happens with it ? I feel if the bar management is even half way reasonable, it should absolutely be no problem to take that photo down for a few days.

      1. amoeba*

        Or cover it, even. I’d also definitely ask!

        (I’m in Europe so I’m pretty sure I would actually have the right to demand it be taken down – but hopefully that wouldn’t be necessary in any kind of somewhat reasonable place!)

        1. Amateur Limguist*

          Yup. My mum was browsing one of those sites that does personalised photo things like magnets and t-shirts and that sort of thing when she came across my wedding photo being used as a sample.

          The marriage was cut tragically short (and my mum does like giving me mementoes with our photos on) and people said I should ask them not to use it in advertising, but I thought it was actually quite a nice thing. It demonstrated to both of us what our photographer actually said — that we were a wonderful couple and we’re among the best weddings he’d ever done, and he came back a few years later to take more photos the week before the tragic ending (because we knew it was coming). It was also a hint that they use real people rather than stock photos and so what they’re showing us is the real deal. It was something that I was really touched by.

          I’ll stay out of the legal ramifications because I’ve got too much wrong on this thread already, but it was one of those moments that ironically helped the grieving process. I think that there’s also rights of personal image use where people’s wishes can be honoured even in less privacy-sensitive jurisdictions, but again, as I said. I’ve been wrong twice on legal and accounting matters already and it behoves me not to be wrong again!

  5. Raida*

    1. Employee keeps falling asleep in meetings

    Could he just do a 2 hour lunch, and finish work an hour later?
    Having an afternoon nap deliberately might just be a banger of a solution

    1. Not Australian*

      IMHO this would be a brilliant solution and would take any potential feelings of guilt out of the situation. I had to leave school because I kept falling asleep in the afternoons, and I’ve never really been able to work ‘normal’ hours for a similar reason: eventually I started my own business where I could work early in the morning and sleep in the afternoon. Some people are just wired that way, and it’s not easy for them to fit in with the ‘normal’ working world.

      1. B. Mariner*

        I had to take naps as a medical accommodation temporary – it ended up just being a side effect from a medication, and was resolved easily once I switched, but I was very, very grateful for the understanding by my employer. They didn’t even ask for paperwork, just took me at my word that this would be the best solution, and even more fortunately, we had overnight guest rooms on site that were also underutilized. That bed was heaven on earth – and getting that extra hour of sleep made a huge difference in my productivity.

        I wish more of America was like that job because, as a culture, we’re very weird about the idea that people might do better with a midday nap. Sleep is a natural thing and sometimes you need a little extra, regardless of professionalism or competence.

        1. Amateur Limguist*

          The only downside is that a 9-5 job becomes 9-6.

          It’s also not just the US — it’s most people other than people who take siestas. Even people claiming that East Asians do it have been told they’re wrong.

          1. Cmdrshprd*

            “The only downside is that a 9-5 job becomes 9-6.”

            Yes, but I think a bigger downside would be losing the job, if the employee keeps falling asleep.

            But I’m the job could be 8 to 5 with a nap if the employee preferred.

            But depending on how long lunch is, the employee could eat and take a nap during their lunch time.

            Take 10 mins to heat and eat lunch, and take a 20 min nap, or take a 50 min nap if he for lunch.

            I have done that before on days when I didn’t sleep well and or was up late/early. I ate lunch quickly, and/or ate at my desk while working and took a 20 to 60 min nap during my “lunch time.”

            Had a private office at times, and even other jobs while in a cube, I used one of our private phone/break rooms to nap.

          2. B. Mariner*

            True – in my case, I was hourly and just didn’t count those hours in my timesheet. I wasn’t getting benefits from that job, so the only downside was a minor pay adjustment for a couple of months.

            For someone who’s salaried or has benefits, it could be helpful to consider intermittent FMLA if the problem is being treated medically but still persistent. There’s still tradeoffs, but unless the employee is ready to retire anyways, a slightly longer work day or taking a slight pay cut would probably be preferable to disciplinary action.

            Of course, that assumes the employee would be willing to consider medical action. I don’t mean to stereotype, but in my experience 60-year-old men don’t always want to acknowledge that their sleep issues are actually issues. It took quite a while to convince my dad that a CPAP would improve his quality of life, and that’s coming from his daughter, not his boss. It wouldn’t be appropriate for LW to push the issue, so keeping it factual but laying out options and consequences is probably the best they can do

    2. Beany*

      It sounds like some of the problematic meetings would actually be taking place during this expanded lunch break:

      “[…] he has a bad habit of drowsing off during afternoon meetings, especially ones that are within an hour after lunch […]”.

      So then he’d be missing the meeting altogether, not just dozing off during it.

      1. Kara*

        Timing of nap probably depends on the day’s schedule, but for a day with a nap right after lunch, start that 2 hour lunch an hour early, then eat and wake up during the ‘normal’ part of the lunch break.

      2. Raida*

        Yeah I don’t know the office schedules – I’d assume his calendar would be marked unavailable for his not-working time, maybe he tweaks his start time and end time, and over time he’d end up with no meetings during the parts of his calendar that he’s not available for.
        If he’s *super important* for meetings then those ones will specifically be asked if they can be moved maybe a half hour.

        Like, ya don’t know until you try.

    3. Old Lady manager*

      For the sleepy employee.
      If they are good at their job otherwise, just talk to them.
      Not to reprimand but to find out if there is anything else going on.
      Outside stress that is now affecting work?
      Possible health issue that may be affecting their energy that you as am employer should be making accommodations for?
      etc.
      Have your documentation ready of when this has happened.
      Frame it as :
      You are a good worker.
      I don’t want to loose you but this falling asleep on the job is causing problems as it would at any job.
      It has reached the point where the next step would normally be some form of disciplinary action but because of the good work that you do, I wanted to see if there was something that can be done on the companies side.
      Is there some health or homelife problem that we could be making accommodations for?
      Would they be willing to get a physical and signed off as being fit to work.
      (Being fit to work doesn’t give your employer health results (HIPPA and all) but does open room for employees to request medically needed work accommodations.)
      A full physical may find vitamin deficiencies, diabetes, sleep apnea, tinnitus.. a host of things that are not the employers business but may be fixable/treatable by the employee.

      If they say no or choose not to give you info so that you can make allowance’s, tell them that you will give them 2 days to think about it but if the the falling asleep at work continues after that, you will have to treat it as any other issue where an employee is not willing to do their job while on the clock.

      For a lot of places, sleeping on the job is treated the same as coming in late or leaving early. That is time you are supposed to be available to work but aren’t. In none office jobs, it can even be a work safety issue (operating equipment and randomly falling asleep can cause physical harm). Usually, so many times late, you get a verbal warning. Next a written warning. After a certain amount of written warnings during a time period, you are fired with cause.
      This let’s them know that you see their good work and value them as an employee but that the falling asleep at work can’t go on.
      Then document the meeting and have them sign something saying that the meeting happened and what was talked about.
      This part protects you.
      It says the meeting happened.
      This is why the meeting happened.
      Here are the next steps that will happen if the behavior continues.
      Tell them that you are treating this as a verbal warning but the form is just proof that it happened.

      Good luck.
      Good luck

    4. Ann O'Nemity*

      One of my mentors scheduled a daily power nap after lunch and was open about it! In his 60s, he viewed it as a health and wellness habit, not a performance issue. Everyone respected that, and the COO even put a couch in his office. He remained a highly valued and respected employee.

      1. Slow Gin Lizz*

        Your mentor is a hero! Naps can fix one’s brain power in ways that other things can’t – when I get to the point where I need a nap, I’m usually so tired I cannot physically keep my eyes open no matter how much caffeine I have. It takes so much concentration just trying to stay away that I end up not actually being able to concentrate on the task at hand. I started taking naps if necessary when I started WFH about 15 years ago and it was so much better for my productivity than endless caffeine. Taking a walk can provide an energy boost too, but IME doesn’t work nearly as much as a quick nap. The three years I had an actual in-office job were really, really hard because I still got very drowsy in the afternoons and I did take walks to try to wake up. I’m sure I could have gotten some energy just by talking to fellow coworkers but that office was weirdly antisocial; nice job, just a strange environment.

        (Was diagnosed a couple of years later with insomnia and treated successfully with meds – to say this was life-changing is an understatement!)

    5. NetNrrd*

      For a long while, it was a running joke among my coworkers that I could (and would) fall asleep in any large all-hands meeting. It finally happened in a small meeting, though, with only a few people in it and my boss asked if I was sick or what. This ended up leading to me doing a sleep test and discovering I had sleep apnea. I ended up getting a CPAP machine and the change was AMAZING. I thought everyone was as tired as I felt all the time but that it was some personality flaw on my part that I actually gave in and slept.

      1. Carlie*

        Same. Getting a CPAP was life-changing. Not the cause of everyone’s sleepy problems, but worth testing for.

      2. Slow Gin Lizz*

        I had chronic insomnia for over a decade before I went to a sleep doc. No apnea but the doc did prescribe trazodone and that was also AMAZING. I also couldn’t figure out why I was tired ALL THE TIME. I figured that since I was still getting 7-8 hours of sleep at night (despite be awake several times at night for an hour or more) I was getting plenty of sleep but it turns out that the key is uninterrupted sleep. I too thought it was just the way I was, being tired all the time and needing a nap every afternoon not just to function but simply because I could not keep my eyes open no matter how much caffeine I’d had. Afternoon energy slumps are common, after all, but not to the point where you’re literally falling asleep at your desk.

        Anyway, not scheduling afternoon meetings for this employee probably won’t help that much; if he’s falling asleep in mtgs he almost definitely would fall asleep at his desk too. Not sure if the OP really has the standing to gently suggest he see a doctor about this issue, but it might be worth bringing up ONCE and then letting go. And if it’s at all possible that the company would let him take a nap as a medical accommodation, that would also be worth mentioning too, which might also spur him to see a doctor.

    6. anon for this one*

      I went from a later shift to an earlier one and started nodding off during my safety training! Granted, the trainer had a soft voice, she was reading off a manual, and there was low light in the room. But I was so embarrassed, and the trainer still remembered it years later :(

    7. Reluctant Mezzo*

      I feel for this guy. Only two students and the professor (I was one of the students) stayed awake in tax class right after lunch. Vivian and I only managed it by getting into arguments about deductions. Other meetings (hello budget!) I managed by literally biting the inside of my mouth.

  6. Just another commenter*

    #1 – also, make sure the meeting is necessary and your employee needs to be in it! Every time I’ve gotten drowsy in a meeting like that, it was because my need to know was “issue X is happening and Team A will be working on it,” but the meeting contained 30 minutes of people in or related to Team A discussing X in great detail, often to the point I barely understood what they were talking about. That makes it super hard to pay attention and stay alert, and is also a waste of time for me and everyone else not on Team A.

    1. a possible idea for lw2*

      LW2: I really like having back up plans so, if you get pushback when talking to the bar about taking down the picture, you might be able to convince them to change the name attached to some sort of alias. Especially if you’ll pay out of pocket for the name plate. This of course works better if the picture isn’t giant and the plausible deniability would help with your recognizability.

    2. LW1*

      LW1 here – the meeting in question is a weekly meeting in which each team member discusses something they’re actively working on in order to get input and feedback from the rest of the team. It’s a way for us to stay aware of what everyone is working on and provide course correction if it seems like someone could be taking a different approach. Our team is small – just 3 IC’s and myself (the manager). So it’s actually very disheartening to have one of those individuals dozing off, especially given that he’s the newest member of the team and could actually learn a lot from what the others are working on! Sometimes it seems like he’s just not interested in the topic being discussed. In any case, I haven’t seen another instance since writing the letter, so hopefully it stays that way!

      1. Toffee Chai*

        That really sounds like a meeting that should be in the morning and not at peak post-lunch energy slump time for everyone’s sake.

        1. Chocolate Teapot*

          Agreed. My team has a daily morning call where we go through the tasks for the day/week and decide who can take on unexpected items or help somebody who is snowed under. It makes sense as emergencies might have come in overnight which needs to be handled as soon as possible.

        2. Allonge*

          But then morning people would not be at their peak, people would be late more often and so on. Not to mention that other regular meetings exist. Normally all team meetings are not that easy to reschedule!

          Honestly, it’s working hours. If someone regularly cannot stay awake, that is not a moral failing or anything like that but it still needs to be handled as a medical accommodation.

          For just about every part of the day you can make legit arguments on why it’s a difficult time for someone and at the same time you can’t exclude regular meetings for most of the day.

          1. Myrin*

            I’m getting flashbacks to that one letter from years ago where somehow almost the whole commentariat was full of comments boiling down to “you shouldn’t hold meetings ever because at any given time someone might fall asleep” and when Alison logged on in the afternoon (for me, I think it was just morning for her), she was like “WTF is wrong with you guys”.

          3. EventPlannerGal*

            Agreed. Yes, some people do have a bit of a post-lunch slump, but it’s usually something that’s taken care of with a cup of coffee or a quick walk or something like that to restore the energy levels. I have never encountered it manifesting as the person literally regularly falling asleep in meetings, and that really sounds like something the employee needs to look into rather than a problem with the meeting itself.

            (I remember another very similar letter from a while back about an employee falling asleep in meetings where this exact discussion about meeting times/should the meeting happen at all/what if the meeting’s really boring/what if they have a medical condition/etc played out, and I believe my view at that time was that ‘being conscious while at work’ is a reasonable ask.)

            2. Clever Name*

              I found it nearly impossible to stay awake for afternoon classes in high school, but I was also chronically sleep deprived. I had to get up at 6:30 am and rarely managed to fall asleep before midnight, back then.

              1. New Jack Karyn*

                It’s super common in high school aged kids! Their natural sleep cycle shifts a couple hours later during adolescence, and then shifts back in early adulthood. That’s a big reason why some districts and states are moving their opening times back.

                (Note that this is on average, will not apply to every individual, etc.)

          4. Smithy*

            Really well put.

            I had a colleague who – due to medical issues – really struggled to be in the office by 9am. What she ultimately needed to do was get on FMLA while also addressing the issue medically.

            I’m sure you could argue that 11am is perhaps a “universally perfect” time for meetings in that it’s not too early, not after lunch, and not close to the end of the day. But the reality is that you only have so many 11am slots in a week, and I’m sure there are also people that based on when they eat breakfast start getting hungry during the 11am hour and start getting distracted.

            1. metadata minion*

              Yeah, I’m an early bird and usually take lunch at 11:30, so by the end of an 11-12 meeting I’m about ready to start gnawing on the chairs.

              But unless most of the people in the office like an early lunch, I’m not going to try to get the meeting moved! If it’s something really important where I need to stay super focused, I’ll set a reminder to have a snack before the meeting.

              People’s circadian rhythms vary so much that I’d really rather just try my best to adjust meetings based on the team’s schedule and any particularly bad times for people, and expect everyone to be adults both about managing their own body/schedule and about giving people some compassion when Erik is still a bit spacy at 10am or Maud is groggy in the 2-3 meeting.

          5. Elizabeth West*

            Mid-morning, like 10:00 or so, seems to be a good time for everyone. Most people will have had coffee and be generally awake, and it also gives them time to navigate traffic and transit.

            If it’s just one day a week, the team will have time to plan for it.

            1. Name*

              But there are only (5) 10:00 am meeting slots per week. If you have more than 5 meetings per week they cannot all be at 10:00.

            2. Dust Bunny*

              No. At 10:00 I’m right in the middle of my morning’s tasks and I’d be annoyed that I’d been interrupted for a meeting. 11:00 (or 11:30, depending) would be better so that I could at least transition to lunch and make the most of the interruption.

            3. Allonge*

              That works great if this is the only meeting anyone on the team ever needs to attend. Failing that though…

              1. Allonge*

                And just to be a bit less sarcastic (sorry): this week I have 26 work meetings. This is a busy but not extremely busy week – it’s a bit special because next week I am out for three days so I brought some things forward, but I had a lot more in a lot of weeks.

                I am fully aware that there are companies and departments and positions where even 1 meeting a week is rare. But there are plenty like mine too. Someone who works in my place cannot do the job and fall asleep in meetings. If someone has one meeting every two weeks, it’s a whole different thing.

        3. Assistant*

          That’s assuming everyone in the meeting is in the same time zone. If OP is based in London and half their team is in NYC/Chicago — the meeting has to be after lunch.

        4. Observer*

          That really sounds like a meeting that should be in the morning and not at peak post-lunch energy slump time for everyone’s sake

          Absolutely. Even people who don’t fall asleep are not going to be at their most alert.

      2. Amateur Limguist*

        Cross fingers! Me, I have to have a cold drink. Caffeinated got drinks don’t work, as my weird neurology plays its part, but a cold soda really helped when I was on the front desk when it was slow.

        My boss once told a story about her days in the navy. On a training exercise, she was heading up a team playing in a serious match of Capture the Flag. She dutifully listened out for her own call sign on the radio, figuring she didn’t need to concentrate on the other instructions. She fulfiled her team’s role, only to reach the base they’d previously held to find an ‘enemy’ ambush. If this had been a real battle, her team would have been captured or dead.

        In her debrief, she learned to actively keep an ear out for what other teams were doing, so she had a broader picture of the battlefield and could think more strategically about what was going on, who had control of which base, what was safe and what was not. She explained this in the context of the team charter, which is an express agreement between team and management as to mutual responsibilities to one another. Paying attention in the Forces is a matter of life and death, but there are plenty of examples from maintenance and facilities history of administrative SNAFUs costing lives. Just think of anything involving a DC-10/MD-11, including the recent St Louis accident, or the explosion of the Piper Alpha rig, or the JetBlue incident in the Everglades. Piper Alpha blew up because of a misfiled piece of paper flagging when a system would be down for maintenance. The JetBlue issue was mislabeled cargo. DC-10s had so many issues it’s untrue but one significant one was a lack of clear labelling on the cargo bay doors and the other main one was engine detachment screws being borked.

        So while, yes, it is boring to sit there listening to other people, it’s also important. Our job doesn’t deal with quite such drastic issues. but still, if things like chemical storage fails or mice get into the wiring (Whack-A-Mole is sadly a reality when dealing with vermin on site) or rubbish builds up in a stairwell…things could go south very quickly. So our compact was to listen to each other and not switch off during meetings so that we did all understand where we were all at.

        Some meetings are superfluous, but some jobs like ours are collaboration heavy, and I think the anti-meeting bias here is a product of under-representation of business operations folks who do get more used to working together with colleagues from disparate departments whose work naturally informs each other’s.

      3. Reality.Bites*

        I could have been your employee! For the last few years of work (I’m retired now), I just couldn’t stay awake unless I was actively engaged. I remember sitting at a “town hall” meeting, sitting in a chair, digging my nails into my arm and literally biting my tongue. I couldn’t watch a play or movie without falling asleep, and at home I could only watch TV sitting at a desk, on the computer at the same time.

        I was getting all the sleep I wanted/needed. Never used an alarm to wake up. I tried an anti-narcolepsy drug my doctor prescribed. And as I have sleep apnea, if I fell asleep even briefly, the snoring alerted everyone but me. Nothing worked, but it went away after I retired.

        I’m not attempting to diagnose your employee, of course. I just wanted to point out that his mid-afternoon sleepiness is not necessarily something he can do anything about on his own, or at all.

        If you think of it as a medical condition requiring accommodation, rather than a choice he’s making, it may be easier for you to work around it.

        1. Varthema*

          I came to say something similar – I’m only in my 40s now and don’t have this issue currently as I have few meetings and they’re remote, but when I’m in a lecture situation (or frequently, a movie), the sleepiness is so overpowering that it is incredibly hard to fight, short of standing up and moving around. Fidgets and gum and candies don’t help. I suppose it could be medical but I don’t know if I could get a doctor to sign a note about it without tests I probably can’t afford.
          (Driving is never an issue because I’m actively involved in my activity. I do have ADHD, no idea it that’s an aggravating factor
          )

          1. korangeen*

            Look into “intrusive sleep” and “theta wave intrusion” and its correlation with ADHD. I don’t have ADHD as far as I know, just autism, but of course there can be overlap in things we struggle with. I’ve struggled with intrusive sleep for as long as I can remember, especially lecture-type situations, a lot of documentary films, scrolling through stuff I need to read for work. It’s like if my brain isn’t stimulated in the right way, it just shuts off.

          2. Sparklespirit*

            I have ADHD and I do this too sometimes! I can’t remember the scientific name for it (if it even has one) but it’s like a known thing that sometimes boredom makes your brain hit the “shut off consciousness” button, it’s not sleepiness so much as “no matter how much you fight this you ARE going down” and it’s. Frustrating to say the least!

            Sometimes writing notes or doodling or something can help, but sometimes there is just. Nothing in the world that will stop it. I was in a really boring class one semester and I think I slept through some portion of every single class. I took notes!! I sat in the front row!! I made myself ask questions!! And yet. I can’t describe how much it feels like your body is hitting the off switch, you physically can only fight it so much. That was before I had focus medications though, so I don’t know if those would help any. Most likely at least a bit but idk I’m not a doctor ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

            Not sure how to help the employee in the meeting, though. If this is his situation I don’t have any help to give because I have not been successful myself (unfortunately), and if it’s a necessary meeting it’s not like you can really say that he isn’t required to be there and conscious for it.

      4. Heck, darn, and other salty expressions*

        Some people naturally get sleepy for up to an hour after a meal, especially lunch. It has little to do with their age, how much sleep they get at night, or how much willpower they expend to try to stay awake. Keeping a tray of hard candies, gum, and quiet fidget toys can help people stay alert during those times. An alternate meeting time would probably be the best solution, but if that is not possible there are sensory alerting strategies that can help and will not be distracting during meetings.

      5. GreyMatterbutReallyColorful*

        How long is the meeting? Standups like this should be brief and to-the-point. Longer conversations can be scheduled to include only the relevant people.

        Also, how new is the employee? Anytime I start a new job, I become exhausted from information overload – new people, new processes, new topics – it’s a lot to take in. I would adjust the meeting to like 10am, keep it to 30 mins max, and give it a few weeks to see whether things improve.

      6. Lily Rowan*

        When I had a team member falling asleep in meetings, she was a new mother, so I totally got it, but I still had to give her a final warning, that if she fell asleep in one more meeting with our big boss she would be be let go. She figured out how to stay awake after that. It felt really heartless, but you just can’t be dozing off in meetings.

      7. Frosty*

        It’s not your place to question medical stuff, but when I hear about people falling asleep in meetings, my thought often goes to ADHD. I really struggled with this in my early career – I’d struggle to stay awake in meetings (or in training) when I wasn’t specifically engaged. I was unmedicated at the time and didn’t understand what was happening.

        Now that I have medication and treatement for ADHD it’s not really an issue any more but I remember those days well – it was a panic for me. I’d be pinching myself in the arm, stabbing myself in the leg with a pen… I’d go to the bathroom and splash water on my face, slap myself etc. But nothing worked.

        You say he’s an older employee, and I wonder if this is a new thing for him, or if he’s struggled with it for a long time. I’d guess that he doesn’t feel great about it either!! Any way you can work with him to accomodate (even without a diagnosis) would probably have great dividends for both sides.

      8. Phone Voice*

        I do hope he manages to stay awake from now on!

        I did want to say one thing which I hope will be helpful. I think a lack of *interest/engagement* in the meeting can be separated from falling asleep during the meeting. As people have pointed out all over the thread, there can be many reasons for falling asleep aside of boredom. As an example from my life I kept falling asleep during lectures for one of my very favorite college classes because it was after lunch and I was an underslept college student. I stopped eating lunch before that class in order for the hunger to keep me awake (not a method I recommend long term). I was desperately interested in the material, which was the keystone of my chosen major, but I still fell asleep.

        1. EventPlannerGal*

          “I think a lack of *interest/engagement* in the meeting can be separated from falling asleep during the meeting.”

          I get where you’re coming from but at the same time I think it’s actually quite hard to separate those things on a gut-response level when it’s so unusual and it sounds like he hasn’t offered any explanation for it. Falling asleep while someone is talking is such common shorthand for boredom/disinterest that it’s the kind of thing you see in cartoons. I can’t blame his team-mates for feeling put off by it or like he’s not interested.

          It’s not a perfect comparison but the closest thing I can think of is if someone took a bite of your cooking and immediately spat it out on their plate. Even if the reason is actually ‘oh no I’m allergic to cheese, can’t have this’, it’s such a universal expression of disgust that the polite thing to do would be to explain that.

          1. Phone Voice*

            I don’t disagree at all! I mentioned this because even though falling asleep during a meeting quite rightfully *looks* like an expression of boredom and lack of interest, I think it’s worth keeping in mind that it isn’t *necessarily* such an expression, especially in terms of evaluating the worker’s entire performance.

            I don’t say this to *excuse* falling asleep in meetings. With my class I was too embarrassed to speak to the professor but I was responsible for finding a method to keep myself awake and for demonstrating I knew the material. In turn, the professor kindly didn’t hold it against me when evaluating my more subjective work.

            Your comparison strikes a chord with me because one of my major hobbies is cooking for people, and I *have* had people spit out a bite for various reasons ranging from a stray bone in a dish meant to be boneless to the diner being a child still learning politeness. It helped me not get angry and wait for an explanation, and in the children’s cases gently explaining to them how better to handle the situation, to remind myself that they weren’t *necessarily* intending to insult me. (And it took some effort to learn this.)

      9. Jaunty Banana Hat I*

        Dozing off in a meeting that small is wild to me, and I say that as someone with insomnia and a permanent sleep deficit.

        To be kind, you could try moving the meeting to before lunch. Or possibly put him on the spot more often with questions/something directly engaging? I can see it being harder to stay awake if these meetings are (at least for now while he’s new) mostly him listening to everyone else. But mostly, yeah, just talk to him and/or call him out during the meeting when he falls asleep, because that is hella rude to his coworkers on top of everything else.

      10. Parrhesia25*

        As the newest member of the team, is it possible that he is disengaging and subsequently dozing off because he doesn’t yet have the knowledge and experience of your workplace and practices to follow what is going on? My experience of these sort of meetings is that they can get deep in the weeds and the newest employee may have trouble following. (Speaking from experience!) That’s not saying that he should doze off but you might want to be sure you are engaging him.

      11. MigraineMonth*

        I have a friend who was having trouble with falling asleep during meetings (I think she was working 60 hrs a week, which was probably the cause), and she took to standing up during meetings when she felt particularly tired.

        Could you model that as a reasonable thing to do?

      12. Hearsay*

        I think that we can address the issue and still have compassion. Some commenters don’t seem open to the tweaks mentioned by Alison and the other comments, but I think we shouldn’t be so black and white that we can’t be open to maybe adjusting a schedule if it works for everyone. Also, whether man or woman, age does affect certain things. We try to have compassion for young interns fresh out of college and I think it’s good to have compassion over people who have hit a certain age. I had a coworker in her 60s and it took extra time for her to adjust to our flow in the office, she needed a little more breaks or time for certain thing. I often got frustrated because I move at a faster pace but I realized my frustrations were based on my pace instead of one that worked for her. Work still got done, just not at our speed. I would consider trying to make adjustments that work for the office as a whole instead of simply deciding he doesn’t fit into the peg that I’m accustomed to. I would also not assume his intentions are due to disengagement unless you see it in other areas. I too get sleepy and less productive after lunch time and apparently many others to. Since he hasn’t repeated this again, I would give him the benefit of the doubt instead of assuming disinterest and maybe even ask his thoughts or if he had any questions on what is being discussed by his coworkers since you believe he could learn from them.

    3. NoIWontFixYourComputer*

      #1 could be me. Soon after I started a new job, my doctor changed my medications, and until I adjusted, I was extremely drowsy during the day.

      1. MigraineMonth*

        I once had a bad reaction to “non-drowsy” cold medication and fell asleep in a small meeting. And at my desk (more than once). Also on the bus, both to and from work. Fortunately my manager accepted my excuse, but it was a *rough* day, and I’ve been afraid to take any cold medication since.

        1. allathian*

          I never take any cold medication other than ibuprofen for this very reason. I also am privileged enough to have practically unlimited sick leave, so if I’m sick enough to potentially need cold meds, I call in sick.

  7. Anon-e-mouse*

    #1 When I was a kid I learned to sleep anywhere anytime (including sitting up) because I had to get up at 4 am for skating practice (and sometimes had ice time as late as 10 pm). This has been a useful skill – but I also tend to fall asleep in meetings if I’m not actively contributing. To avoid looking unprofessional, I try to take a seat in meeting rooms so that I can easily and discreetly step outside. So if I start to feel like I’m dozing off and there isn’t an appropriate opportunity to speak up (something that wakes me up), I just get up and leave the meeting for a minute or two and walk up and down the hall outside the room.

    If I can’t do that, I pull out a sheet of scratch paper and tackle a memory exercise (eg listing my home room teachers’ names, European capitals, etc). That gets my brain working again.

    1. Transatlantic*

      I find simply standing in the back of the meeting room really helpful. I started doing that when I hurt my back, and it’s so good for sharpening my focus that I still do it now. It may feel weird at first, but I just mention that I’m going to start standing during some meetings and people quickly get used to it. In fact, coworkers are also doing it.

      1. Mus*

        I once had an 8 am college class in which I tried everything to stay awake, including standing up… and then fell asleep while standing, multiple times. So I’d be falling against the wall, jerking awake just before going down, or dropping my notebook from my hands. The OTHER students ended up more alert while watching to see what happened. Eventually the professor gave up blaming me (I’d warned them, and obviously I was trying!) and left me alone to fall asleep in a chair, normal student fashion.

    2. EBStarr*

      Here to proudly report I’ve been dozing in afternoon meetings (and sometimes other times…) since I joined the white-collar workforce at 21, so it’s not necessarily an age thing. I once fell asleep in a 1-on-1 with my manager… while demonstrating something to him on my laptop. I’ve tried the memory exercise thing (I like to write song lyrics backwards), thinking of stressful things, stabbing myself with a pencil… nothing really works.

      I guess if I ever got in trouble with it I’d probably try to get a medical accommodation. But so far it hasn’t been necessary. No one’s ever really reprimanded me for it and I’ve only had one bad performance review in 15+ years. I feel like those of us who are meeting dozers just have to either find a job that we’re good enough at that people give us a pass for dozing, or one that’s laid-back enough that people don’t care. Or one without meetings, lol. I never fell asleep working as a barista.

          1. ArtsNerd*

            Yes, alarming is a good term… I have “accidentally woke up at 11:30a today after accidental evening nap that turned into real sleep” level of unresolved sleep issues (working on it) and would never doze off in a one-on-one no matter how stuffy or boring or close to mealtime it was.

      2. EventPlannerGal*

        Oh wow, that’s pretty extreme if you fell asleep while presenting! I’m glad it hasn’t held you back in your career but I’m so curious about how your manager responded. Have you ever looked into it medically at all, even if you’ve never sought an accommodation?

      3. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

        “fell asleep in a 1-on-1 with my manager… while demonstrating something to him on my laptop.”
        Blimey, I’d have gone to my GP the next day. That sounds quite alarming.

      4. If You Know, You Know*

        A former boss, who was in his late sixties at the time, used to fall asleep in one-on-ones with his staff all the time. Often when he was in the middle of a sentence. Because of the huge power differential between us and him (think Jr. llama wrangler meeting with the CEO), the person who was fallen asleep on (the sleep-ee, as it were) was generally afraid to wake him up. One staff member got caught in his office an hour after quitting time when he fell asleep while talking to her and the rest of the staff had already left for the day and weren’t around to rescue her. That’s when we instituted Code Z, which meant we all sent a text when we were summoned to his office and when we returned to ours so that if we were there “too long” someone would call his phone, stop by with a question, etc.

      5. Cedrus Libani*

        I was that person too. I don’t think I stayed 100% awake through an entire class or meeting between age 15-28, no matter how rested I was, and if I was actually tired…I once fell asleep while walking down the hallway and having a conversation. Turns out I’ve got autoimmune issues, and once I got treated, the microsleeps went away.

    3. Science_Bear*

      After years of being mocked for falling asleep in lecture halls, at my desk as a grad student, needing naps on lunch breaks, and just generally not being a morning person, I discovered I have a rare hypersomnia and it really isn’t my fault that I fall asleep in random places super easily. I actually need medication if I am going to be awake during normal business hours.

      I feel like there’s always the assumption that sleepiness is a self-inflicted failure, but sometimes it’s a neurological disorder or sleep apnea and it needs medical treatment.

      1. Caliphate*

        ^^ This! Our knowledge of how sleep works is actually still really rudimentary.

        We still don’t even know WHY we sleep, and it is really hard to get diagnosed when your symptom is that you’re sleepy/tired/falling asleep all the time because 1. there are a ton of things that can cause fatigue 2. doctors tend to be really, really dismissive of it, especially if you are a woman 3. the stigma that needing a lot of sleep or being unable to feel rested is because you’re lazy.

    4. Jay (no, the other one)*

      Conditioning is powerful. I did a rotation in residency that was a 20 minute freeway drive from home. Call was every third night and we were up all night every time. We were allowed to leave in the early afternoon post-call and my husband always picked me up – I would have fallen asleep behind the wheel. I was asleep in the passenger seat before we got out of the parking lot.

      Prior to that rotation I was never able to sleep in car. Now, even 35 years later, if he’s driving, I’m dozing. Doesn’t matter what time it is or how perky I feel.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        I used to sleep in the car when my ex and I worked at the same place. We both had to be onsite at 7 am and we lived an hour’s drive away. We got up at 4:30 or 5:00 — he preferred to drive, and I would conk out in the passenger seat and wake up when we pulled into the parking lot.

        One morning, I was sound asleep and missed a mama bear with two cubs walking across the road. He tried to wake me up, but by the time I was alert enough to register anything, they were already gone! :(

    5. Magnolia Cordelia*

      “I pull out a sheet of scratch paper and tackle a memory exercise (eg listing my home room teachers’ names, European capitals, etc). That gets my brain working again.”

      I do something similar: try to write down a fruit, city, flower, celebrity, etc. for every letter of the alphabet.

    6. Reluctant Mezzo*

      Yes, I’ve outlined whatever the next chapter in my newest book was going to be in such meetings.

  8. a possible idea for lw2*

    LW2: I really like having back up plans so, if you get pushback when talking to the bar about taking down the picture, you might be able to convince them to change the name attached to some sort of alias. Especially if you’ll pay out of pocket for the name plate. This of course works better if the picture isn’t giant and the plausible deniability would help with your recognizability.

    1. tommy*

      or maybe there’s a way the bar could (in advance of course) cover the name plate — maybe that’s easier/cheaper/faster than getting a whole new name plate? maybe tape a postcard over the name, slightly askew, as if someone just really wanted to hang up that particular postcard also, and it just happened to get placed blocking a name? and another postcard somewhere nearby on the wall as if it’s just a wall of mainly pictures but also a few postcards?

      1. tommy*

        if you bring a couple postcards and that tacky-sticky stuff when you ask the bar, they might be extra likely to say yes because you’re making it easy as pie for them.

        or, clandestine option, bring those items to the party and subtly do it yourself (with a trusted work pal standing in front of you, if that right person exists).

        1. amoeba*

          Yeah, I feel like that would be my backup – just arrive early and cover it up myself. (Or offer to them to cover it up yourself for the evening, if they just don’t want to bother!)

        2. Rusty*

          LW1: I’m gluten intolerant but didn’t realise for ages because for about a year my only symptom was becoming narcoleptic within 15 mins of eating gluten-heavy foods. Like, I would pass out for a few hours. Because it felt inconsistent (because I wouldn’t get it after other good) and I had no other symptoms, I didn’t make the connection to food/digestive/processing issues at all & just thought I was a very sleepy girl. (My symptoms then took a more serious nosedive, which is deeply sad. I miss good bread.) But lots of food intolerances/blood sugar issues can cause severe sleepiness – it might be just worth suggesting to him in a “If you need to examine caffeine intake or any food-related issues or other factors that could be contributing to this, please do.”

          LW2: Drop by the bar with a big sheet of construction paper or a poster & some blu-tac, explain to the bartender, ask them to cover it for the day. If you make it as easy as possible for possible – ie, providing materials that won’t damage anything – it’s very unlikely they’ll say no.

        3. Cats*

          This assumes the photos aren’t in an area inaccessible to patrons, like behind the bar itself. Or really high up, requiring a ladder to reach.

          If this was an annual contest, wouldn’t OP’s photo be among 15 subsequent years of photos? So how much would it really stand out? And how big is it anyway? I doubt it’s even an 8-by-10 inch frame. And if it was 15 years ago but it’s an annual contest, why would it be so prominently displayed compared to other years’ winners???

          The LW should either ask the bar to take it down/cover it up, or just let it go. No need for subterfuge like we’re in an Office episode.

  9. Greyhound the Grey*

    LW1: people are always very down on dozing off in work time, and yes it’s not desirable behaviour on a professional level, but it’s not always that easy to control. For 2 years after my second child was born, I just had to sleep at about lunch time – my body just took over and I couldn’t prevent it. If I was driving, I had to pull over or I’d just fall asleep at the wheel. I once had a very well regarded colleague – he was a statistics expert – who dozed off in his chair every afternoon for 30 minutes after lunch. He was very discreet about it, I only knew because we were desk neighbours. It enabled him to be refreshed and alert all afternoon. I also had a manager who was NOT a morning person and kept getting invited to 8am meetings. It was only after she actually fell asleep in one that her boss believed her and rescheduled the meetings – she was also a very high performer. So my point is, if it’s causing a problem in the workplace then clearly it needs to be resolved, but there is no need to treat it as some sort of moral failing. It’s a physiological response in some people, not a product of laziness. If it’s not causing a problem, like my statistics friend, then maybe just leave it be.

    1. Morte*

      I had a teammate that dozed off a lot in meetings and trainings and when work was slow. Yhey later came to find out it was à previously unknown health issues causing it and addressing the health issue resolved the dozing off

      1. allathian*

        Yeah, I had to tell my then-boss that I was pregnant months earlier than I’d planned when she found me asleep at my desk, I was 10 weeks pregnant and I’d come in a bit later than usual after the ultrasound we get at 10 weeks. At that point the only person I’d told was my husband. The following weekend we told our parents and siblings.

      2. B. Mariner*

        I learned the hard way that some people get intense “excessive daytime sleepiness” as a side effect of lexapro. One minute I was perfectly awake, next minute I literally couldn’t keep my head up. No rhyme or reason for when it struck either. But eventually I connected the dots and switched meds.

        1. Jackalope*

          When I was in my mid-twenties I took a med for several months, 2 pills/day. I also moved during that time for work and was at a new position with new responsibilities and a super hectic weekend schedule that always involved travel. I could NOT stay awake Monday afternoons; I had a very passive role for about an hour where I had to listen to someone else talking (working with kids, where someone else was giving the primary lesson), and I knew it was not okay to fall asleep, but fall asleep I did. My team lead was furious at me on the regular, and thought I was just living it up on the weekends (she didn’t approve of my weekend responsibilities, which were not related to the specific team we were on together). I got in trouble so many times with her, but nothing I could do would make a difference.

          Eventually I went to another doctor for some reason and they found out about the medication I was taking. Apparently it makes you drowsy, and the regular dose is one pill/day, not two. The new doctor asked me incredulously how I was even awake, and immediately began weaning me off that med (which wasn’t doing what it was supposed to anyway). I’ve never forgotten that since my team lead made me feel morally deficient for falling asleep on Monday afternoons rather than trying to help me problem-solve or even just telling me to figure something out, and it turned out to be totally not the fault of me or my morals at all. (And I learned an important lesson about following up on medication side effects if I felt a change…)

          All of that is perhaps out of the scope of this OP; a man in his 60s is more likely to be put off by a supervisor taking an active role in helping figure this out than I would have been at that point in my first longterm post-college job when I would have welcomed a nudge in the right direction. But the framing of my falling asleep as a moral failing rather than an issue that might have a practical resolution was super damaging to young Jackalope, and kept me from the kind of problem-solving that could have fixed it earlier. Not that the OP sounds judgy in the letter, but I’m just sharing this to give an example of ideas that might help or hurt when working through this.

        2. metadata minion*

          Yeah, I’m on Trazodone to help with sleep — it’s an antidepressant, and happily it seems to actually help my depression as well, but it causes such debilitating sleepiness that it’s now almost exclusively prescribed off-label as a sleep aid.

          (And then in a tiny percentage of people, it causes mania instead. Bodies are weird.)

      1. Greyhound the Grey*

        No – I said if it’s an issue it needs to be resolved somehow, and clearly in this case it’s an issue. My point was that it often seems to be regarded as some sort of moral failing or that people are just being lazy and could easily control daytime sleepiness, and I think that’s not a useful framework.

      2. amoeba*

        Nah, but for instance, he could actually have a scheduled 20 min nap between lunch and the meeting! Might not have occurred to him that it could be OK and he’s just trying to power through?

        1. Cebo*

          But why is an adult man absolved of any responsibility and accountability? At the age of 60 he should have tools to address afternoon drowsiness if it’s a recurring issue. It’s ridiculous to expect the whole team change the ways of working and cancel or reschedule meetings for this one guy, especially with such an attitude. Even if it’s a medical issue, he should be the one looking for a cure or method to tackle it.

          2. MtheR*

            Scheduling naps *is* a tool. Periodic daytime drowsiness, especially after eating, is extremely common, and not necessarily addressable even with medication.

            1. Allonge*

              Ok but for most people drowsiness does not necessarily mean falling asleep at work.

              If for him the after lunch part is the issue, he needs to propose a change in this schedule. But about a dozen people here say it mattered not a bit when a meeting took place, they fell asleep (sometimes standing). My point is this is not something LW can fix on their own.

              1. MtheR*

                I was responding specifically to someone arguing against this man scheduling naps by citing personal responsibility and needing to develop tools for dealing with drowsiness. Scheduled naps are one such tool. Maybe they’re not the one that works for him. Different people work differently.

          3. Maggie*

            Is it just the one guy though? He’s the only one visibly affected, but low energy in the early to mid afternoon is incredibly common. I wonder if there might be better engagement and retention of information among everyone with a less notorious timeslot.

  10. Amateur Limguist*

    We have contracts here in the UK but we can be fired for gross misconduct. I’ve done some work with HR and it’s much, much easier to let someone go for misconduct than it is for performance. We run a tight ship in terms of behaviour. It’s tricky to give examples because confidentiality, but I’m actually really impressed by the range of behaviours we simply won’t tolerate, and also what grace we give people in a tight spot who apologise for the actions. Some things are a no-brainer firing (racism, corruption etc) but some things hinge on how people react when challenged. We give them a chance to come clean and explain, but our colleague relations really work hard to maintain a great atmosphere for the people who actually do their job properly and respectfully.

    Those things act as a break clause on any good contract because we do not tolerate assholes and corruption. It’s an incredibly good place to work knowing that something will be done about people who make life a misery. While I understand there will always be political firings and wrongful terminations (and we have a dedicated employment court here called tribunals where people can escalate their concerns over wrongful termination, although — and this is something hopefully Labour will shorten drastically — we do have a two year window where you can be sacked for reasons similar to at-will employment), a contract won’t protect someone who genuinely messes up big time or is a nightmare to work with. Employment contracts are agreements that you work for X amount and do ABC as your role, but they won’t protect you from firing due to your own misconduct.

    Whether or not this lady was wrongly fired, yes, you can do that even when there’s a contract. It would be absurd — and terrible — if you couldn’t be sacked while on contract, even for misconduct. Also remember, there are three sides to any story — Person 1’s, Person 2’s and the truth. People are complex and things are often not as they seem — tread carefully with these issues and really reserve judgement until you know what actually went on.

    1. The Starsong Princess*

      It sounds like the board cheaped out on the go-away money. That’s never a good idea, it’s worth it to keep this stuff out of the news.

  11. Nic*

    LW1: I have a colleague, that was drowsing off in meetings years ago and in his case it was caused by being tired because of sleep apnea. I am not saying this is what happens with your employee, but maybe ask him, whether he gets good sleep at night. My colleague’s issues improves after he got a device that helps him breathing through the night.

    1. Amateur Limguist*

      I think diagnosis is better off being left to someone’s doctor’s. OP has called it out once or twice now, and from an update he hadn’t done it again yet, but just as Alison doesn’t like us armchair diagnosing here, it’s also not LW’s responsibility to go down a checklist of things it could be. In other contexts we’re very sensitive to people bringing up medical issues at work (e.g. the many threads on ‘I think my report is X, should I suggest Y?’, where the answer is generally wait until they bring it up)

      My boss is always happy to brainstorm issues with me that I bring to her, and I know I can trust her discretion particularly due to swapping notes on women’s health as we are both of a similar age, but ultimately the work has to be done by this guy and his doctors, and if he hasn’t initiated a conversation about it, it would be difficult to bring it up proactively.

      It’s definitely something that should be looked into, it’s just that the general consensus is that a boss doesn’t have standing to pry into medical conditions directly.

    2. Happy meal with extra happy*

      Nah, if there’s a medical possibility, that’s on the employee to figure out. OP should not start trying to help diagnose him.

      1. Jackalope*

        I agree that the OP shouldn’t start trying to diagnose him. If she hasn’t already, however, it might help to suggest casually during a discussion on this that the problem COULD be medical, and mention getting that checked out as a possible solution. No further than that, but telling employees to consider that much might be appropriate given the circumstances.

        1. Clever Name*

          A lot of people are reluctant to seek medical treatment for sleep issues because in some states it can result in the doctor pulling your driver’s license. I had a friend who had very obvious sleep issues but couldn’t address them because losing her license would have resulted in losing her job.

          1. New Jack Karyn*

            I mean, if her sleep issues made her dangerous behind the wheel, then I don’t have a lot of sympathy for her.

  12. bamcheeks*

    Unless you’re in a VERY straitlaced sector, LW2, I wouldn’t worry about it too much. If it was from a couple of years ago and you were still in your early twenties, I think it would have the potential to affect how people see you, but I think “fifteen years ago I looked good in a bikini” is a revelation on par with “once, I was a baby”. Even if you don’t feel you’ve changed substantially, you will look very young and baby faced to people who know you now and it’s just very unlikely to connect as more than like “ahh, we were all young once”.

    1. londonedit*

      I’d be surprised if anyone actually notices (who spends that much time looking at what’s on the wall when they’re at a work do?) or actually realises it’s the OP in the photo. And even if they do notice, I can’t imagine anyone caring that much!

      1. Lexi Vipond*

        That’s what I was thinking – if we’re talking at least 15 or 20 years’ worth of winners then ‘huge’ might mean about A3 sized (big for a photo) rather than life-sized. I don’t think people will be (or should be, at a work event) looking that carefully.

      2. amoeba*

        I mean, I feel like I’d notice and be excited as in “oh my god, that’s you, that’s so cool, you look great!” (Hopefully, with my colleagues, it would be fine…)
        If it’s as big as I picture it to be, I’d definitely assume people will notice. (Like, A1 in a frame in a prominent place on the wall? Yeah, I’d assume somebody will see it! Although of course it also depends on how much LW has changed, how visible the face is in the pic, how big the name plate is…)

        1. KateM*

          Hopefully there are at least 15 more photos like that. If not, maybe it’s time to take down the old photos in general and put instead up something that doesn’t suggest that the place stopped in time 15 years ago.

  13. Bananapants Modiste*

    #1 :
    Not judging the older employee, just telling a story:
    An young intern tended to to fall asleep in a weekly afternoon meeting. One day, she quietly announced she would stand during the meeting to stay awake, and to please bear with her. It worked beautifully.

    1. Pastor Petty LaBelle*

      All the suggestions that AAM gave are ones that would benefit everyone not just the one person. Others might be feeling sleepy too. So less stuffy room, caffeine, and ability to stand up benefit everyone.

    2. Cazaril*

      I used to travel internationally, and jet lag plus long meetings could be brutal. I sometimes resorted to claiming unspecified back issues that required me to stand now and then as a break from sitting. (10 hours on an airplane can also cause plenty of actual back pain!)

    3. JustaTech*

      At OldJob we had monthly department-wide meetings. One of the most senior people started standing in the back of the room to help him concentrate (he was very awake but it helped his ADHD). That said, they were lecture-style meetings and a lot of people would nod off towards the end (even though they were at like 9am).

      One time I gave a presentation and a peer came up to me and said I must have done a good job because her boss stayed awake through my entire talk!

  14. Alice*

    For the manager of the sleepy employee – perhaps you should check the ventilation in the meeting room. If there’s not enough ventilation and CO2 is building up, the effects can include drowsiness and lower cognitive performance.
    Even if the one guy is the only person actually falling asleep, everyone may benefit from improved cognition if you can mprove the air quality. I’ll put a link with more info below.

    1. Enai*

      Yeah, I came here to say the exact same thing. Check the Carbon dioxide and ventilate the meeting room.

  16. InefficientCatherder*

    Why is it ok for the workplace to have an event at a space decorated with large photos of young women in bikinis? I would argue that such a space is just not appropriate for a professional event. And I would argue the same if it was photos of young men in speedos.

    2. Education Mic*

      Thank you. I’m not sure if this is a small town or what, but it doesn’t sound like the kind of venue I’d use for a work party.

  17. Turingtested*

    LW 1, I had a former colleague who kept his office dimly lit, cool, and always had a few fans going. I couldn’t be in there for more than a few minutes without getting very drowsy. I just flat out told him I couldn’t be productive in there so we changed environments.

    I’d inquire about the meeting room.

  18. lanfy*

    My father tells the tale of a big corporate ‘do’ he went to that featured a post-lunchtime event in a warm meeting room, watching a boring presentation, with the lights dimmed so that everyone could see the slides…

    …apparently when the lights came up again at the end of the presentation, over half the room jerked as they woke in unison :)

    1. Beany*

      Back when I was in college, I’d go to weekly seminars held in a small warm department room with lots of comfy cushioned chairs. I’d start to doze off after about 20 minutes … but so did the department head (who had about 40 years on me).

  19. Blue wall*

    PMA: I’m here for the Philly discussion! Local chatter has it that the board didn’t like the name change and new logo; the article linked makes it seem that was just the tip of the iceberg.

    I also think the new logo is a McDonalds of logos: bland and lacking distinction. And that it was designed by a Brooklyn firm? Come on, we’re in Philly.

    Reading the article one complaint is that the CEO was given only 6 months severance when her contract stipulated 2 years. 2 years severance— is that a thing in any industry or role?!

    1. Missy*

      Also from Philly. That new logo is a joke, but I love that everyone in the city is retaliating by calling the museum Phaart.

      2. Gumby*

        I have no connection to Philly nor any expertise in design, but I just looked it up and it seems vaguely Soviet-ish? Or industrial? Which maybe was the point. But not what I associate with the broad category of fine art.

        But I have not enjoyed many recent rebrands. SF Ballet, for example, has decided their new look is letters stretched oddly and blurry photos with double images. Yay. (Not yay. I like to enjoy the ballet sober, thank you.)

    3. 653-CXK*

      The phrase “Those they would destroy they first call promising” seems to apply here. The new board wanted to fancy the museum up to attract new (read: non-tourist and/or gentrified) clientele, so they changed the name. Add to that the CEO, who had a glimmer of intelligence and ways to save money, and the (corrupt?) brain trust at the new PMA had a fit, so they disposed of her.

      Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t that where the LOVE and Rocky sculptures are? If so, they new leaders will probably find a way to get rid of them.

      1. 653-CXK*

        ETA – Quick internet check confirms Rocky is at the steps of the PMA; Love sculpture is at John F. Kennedy Park/Love Park. (I come from Boston, so forgive my lack of Philly landmark knowledge.)

        1. Great Frogs of Literature*

          The Rocky sculpture is actually extremely… I don’t know that “controversial” is the right word, but a lot of people feel like a sculpture of a scene from a movie doesn’t belong in front of a fine arts museum.

          (Personally it’s a debate that I think is sort of academically interesting — one can argue that a movie is art, right? And to me, sculptures are generally art. No one’s arguing that the sculpture of Joan D’Arc on the other side of the museum isn’t art. And ‘fine art’ is such a constructed category. If I worked for the museum I’d probably be advocating to use it as an excuse to open a discussion with the public on “What is art?” But nobody asked me.)

          IMO the Rocky sculpture isn’t *quite* as Iconic Philly as the LOVE statue. Rocky as a movie may be, but the statue itself is at one remove in a way that makes it feel, kind-of… second-tier Iconic Philly. Which is not to say that there’s not generally a line of people in front of it posing for photos.

          Now that I think about it, the line of people posing for photos may be part of the debate — some people feel pretty salty that a lot of the photo-posers will not then go to the museum.

          (I am from Philly but do not still live there and had not heard about the CEO thing until this morning.)

          1. Missy*

            I understand the saltiness about people posing in front of the Rocky statue but then never paying admission to check out PhArt. But to combat that, maybe our official tourism board shouldn’t list visiting the Rocky statue as the 2nd most essential thing to do in Philly (right behind visiting the Liberty Bell and in front of easting a cheesesteak.)

            What’s hilarious is that there’s now a Rocky statue in the PHL airport.

            https://www.visitphilly.com/articles/philadelphia/most-essential-things-to-do-in-philadelphia/#pose-with-the-rocky-statue-and-run-up-the-rocky-steps

          2. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

            You must have moved out before they moved the Rocky statue. It is no longer at the top of the steps. It’s at the bottom, around the corner. That way, tourists aren’t blocking the steps and it’s actually easier for them to get to because they don’t have to haul up the stairs. They just pop off the HOHO bus and pop back on and leave.

    4. Philly Designer Here*

      Also from Philly! And also in design / branding. We have amazing designers in Philly that could have done the work and connected with the community. However, maybe there was an RFP and Philly agencies didn’t submit proposals, were more expensive than the brooklyn agency, or didn’t hit the mark. Maybe smaller agencies or even small design teams didn’t or couldn’t submit. I don’t know, but I agree it was a misstep to not go with a Philly agency and anyone from Philly would absolutely know Philly would revolt about this. In the branding world the new logo is being praised and I … just don’t understand WHY. To me it seems like every other art museum rebrand that I’ve been over the past few years. I can’t figure out what I’m missing that makes “brand experts” love it and I just really don’t! I’m sure the Board didn’t care that it wasn’t a Philly-based design agency, espeically if the Brooklyn agency came in cheaper. And IF that was the case the the CEO was acting to do the project with money in mind. Of course, the question of was the rebrand needed? (I think yes, although I don’t love the rebrand they got.) And are expansive rebrands hella expensive for some reason (also yes). Was the Board on board so to speak until bad press? (who knows?)

      1. TheErstwhileLibrarian*

        Recovering Philly Museum Professional here. I think two things can be true: this recently fired CEO was a terrible manager who wasted money and alienated both staff and key volunteers and donors, and her firing was a consequence of her own bad behavior. At the same time, those consequences came much more quickly and publicly than they did for male employees who engaged in much worse behavior, which is gross.

        At the end of the day, I am very glad this CEO is no longer at the museum… but I also think the board is dysfunctional and needs some better members.

        Also the filed complaint is laughable and reads like a Regina George burn book.

      2. MsM*

        I think it’s one of those things where brand experts are cross-referencing it against their mental libraries of comparative examples and current trends and design language and how it’ll read in a variety of different formats, and ignoring the fact the general public doesn’t have any of that context or training and just thinks “wow, that looks like a high school mascot.”

    5. Pastor Petty LaBelle*

      Re the contract severance – this is a big thing in sports coaching contracts. Being fired without cause – like the team is just not winning or new GM wants his guy, gets your contract bought out. Fired for Cause and you get nothing. Since we are talking millions of dollars here, you sometimes get fired for cause when it really means we didn’t want to pay out the contract. Then the coach goes to court to fight it.

      So Philly can expect a lawsuit.

      2. Devo Forevo*

        There’s always a lawsuit, but this is nowhere near “millions of dollars” territory. The organization’s entire budget is around $1.2M.Her salary last year was $728,945. It’s publicly available. If she pissed off a major donor, we might be getting into the $1M range.

    6. Martin Blackwood*

      My dad got two years severence when he got replaced, though I dont know the exact details, the second year was stipulated as long as he didnt have a new job I believe? It could have been a non-compete sort of thing, the industry being what it is, though he didnt go back to it.

    7. Pumpkin215*

      I live outside of Philly and as for the new logo: “HATED IT”.

      I agree with the online community referring it to a soccer logo. Using a Brooklyn firm was a double whammy. I read the board didn’t know the name was being change to PhART or that the launch was happening which would also contribute to the problem. True, there has been a lot of gossip so who knows what will happen.

      If I received 6 months severance from a company I would run! But I’m also not a CEO.

    8. Mynona*

      If the PMA’s board is so incompetent that it let this debacle go public, then it is likely the source of all the dysfunction. Their last director was investigated for misconduct and allowed to retire. I am very skeptical of the board’s claim that it did not approve the rebranding, or that any rebranding campaign, however bad, would be grounds for dismissal. They will have a VERY hard time hiring a good replacement. Experienced museum directors are in short supply, and good ones won’t stake their future careers on such a bad board. Too bad–one of the country’s great collections!

    9. Festively Dressed Earl*

      Nittiest of nitpicks: the complaint mentions that only 8000 students visited PMA in 2021 compared to 100,000 in 2005. Given that the COVID vaccine wasn’t available for kids until that autumn, I don’t think that’s the killer point the attorneys believe it is.

      1. 2 Cents*

        I was thinking the same thing, though maybe the numbers still didn’t recover for other years (IDK why I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt).

        This whole thing sounds like a huge mess on both sides. Maybe she is a good director who was told one thing in the interview (we want bold leadership and new ideas!) then when she executed them, was met with another (not like that!). Maybe the board hired another incompetent director. Who knows.

  20. Victor WembenLlama*

    I would think the bar would be fine with taking the photo down if you asked. Also though if this place is local and popular enough to be chosen for this get together, it may have been seen already

    Either way hopefully you have mature colleagues

    1. AlexR*

      Yeah, I wonder if any of the coworkers have already seen it if they’ve gone there on personal outings. The context may feel different to LW at a group work event, though

      1. MCMonkeyBean*

        Yeah, I think it would feel really different to have the whole office there at the same time rather than just the possibility coworkers would happen to be there and see it on occasion. I’d definitely ask the bar if they wouldn’t mind taking it down for a couple of days.

    2. PotatoRock*

      yeah, I think there’s a difference between “some of my colleagues may have seen this” and “we’re having the work party right in front of it”. Like in a smaller town, my colleagues may have seen me in a swimsuit at the one pool/beach but I wouldn’t want to have a work party *at* the pool

  21. But not the Hippopotamus*

    Re Bonuses… OP could also make a separate bonus. Lots of companies have one time performance bonuses that can be given out at any time. They don’t have to be regular or guaranteed to happen at all.

  22. ZSD*

    #3 Also note that there are some (admittedly not many) jurisdictions where employers are legally required to give their employees their work schedules at least two weeks in advance. You can check whether you happen to be in such a jurisdiction. Look for something like a Fair Work Schedules Act or a Retail Workers Bill of Rights.

    1. anon for this one*

      We were promised a quarterly schedule but it changes daily, sometimes more than once a day. The higher ups don’t see what the problem is because it doesn’t affect them. We just try to work around it and sometimes just disregard the schedule and hope we don’t get in trouble.

    2. Zelda*

      Even if the LW is not in one of those jurisdictions, I still think it makes a useful talking point– LW is not being a prima donna; they are talking about a legitimate workers’ rights/quality of life issue, and whole entire governments agree with them (even if not the local government).

  23. H.Regalis*

    I am not in my sixties but I’ve always been super tired after lunch, and have a neurological problem that exacerbates that. For anyone else out there in comment land who has the same problem, drinking kefir after lunch has really helped me, more than coffee does, surprisingly. I discovered this completely by accident and it still surprises me how much it helps most days.

    Obviously this doesn’t help LW1 because they’re not the one who is falling asleep and the employee who is needs to figure out a solution for themselves on their own because they’re an adult.

    1. No Witty User Name*

      same. I usually try not to schedule calls right after lunch due to that food coma I get. I no longer drink coffee much but I find if I just have an hour or so I can bounce back and be myself again (obv still working just not a meeting)
      Im wondering if the employee has diabetes or something like that where their blood sugars get wonky after eating.
      Id have a conversation about still being sleepy and ask the employee how they think tis can be resolved-and then take their feedback into account.

  24. Hiring Mgr*

    Feeling tired after lunch is extremely common, so unless there’s a medical issue he’s going to have to figure it out

    I do agree that if there are small tweaks that can be done to make it easier can look into those.

    I’ve worked at a couple of startups that have “nap rooms” which is really just a quiet area you can close your eyes for a 10-20 minutes or so. For me at least even a 2-3 minute nap can make a big difference

    1. Observer*

      Feeling tired after lunch is extremely common, so unless there’s a medical issue he’s going to have to figure it out

      I’d say the reverse. It’s so common that it makes sense to move it to a time that makes more sense. Because you’re probably not getting the most out of the rest of the staff, even though they are not falling asleep.

  25. Writer 2*

    update: Good news everyone! I phoned the bar and the manager agreed that I could come in the night before and take the photo and my name down for the night and they would put it back up after my staff event! it was actually pretty easy although he had a bit of a chuckle about it.

    4. the Viking Diva*

      Good solution that will keep you from worrying about it.
      And you may still want to ready a mildly snappy comeback in case your coworkers decide they love this place and come back again. At some point, someone’s going to spot it… you could be prepared to toss off a light response, moving the comment off your bikini body to how time passes: “Yep, Fred, lucky for Llamas Inc., I’ve still got all my brains.”

    8. Hroethvitnir*

      Yay!! The possibilities in both bar and workplace responses were so wide; I’m super glad they were chill.

  26. Parenthesis Guy*

    #5: I’d consider also giving Jane a special shout out where you talk about how she’s done a great job to everyone. I wouldn’t mention the extra bonus at that meeting necessarily, but at least that way if people do talk amongst themselves, they’ll know why she got it.

  27. I'm awake, I'm awake!*

    Re Sleepy Guy: peppermint gum is my secret trick for staying awake. Whether it’s the action of chewing, the nice refreshing smell, or something else I have no idea, but it works.

    1. Speak*

      I have found that having something in my mouth will keep me awake too, I have used both gum and hard candies. For me it’s about moving something around in my mouth that makes me not fall asleep. I often use this trick when I need to read a bunch of documents after lunch. And this reminds me, I need to re-stock my gum supply at the office, the pack at my home office is mostly full.

  28. Hiring Mgr*

    On #5, I would hope that the rest of your staff wouldn’t begrudge some extra $$ to the least paid employee who’s also most junior, has the least flexible schedule, and doesn’t have a car to commute

    Also they will (and should if they want to) talk about their bonuses

  29. NauticalByNature*

    LW1- my wife had thyroid cancer and as a result had to have her thyroid removed, which makes it incredibly difficult for her to stay awake in meetings. Something that has helped her immensely that you may be in a position to ask about as their supervisor is taking notes! She keeps a little notebook on her to take notes in meetings, mostly because it’s enough to keep her engaged and awake, and bonus there’s always notes about the meeting. And, it’s a really natural looking thing to be doing so she’s not drawing attention to herself as someone who needs to do things to stay awake (like a rocking chair, another thing she’s used). Maybe you can designate them a note taker?

  30. Anonymous Penguin*

    LW#1, if it continues to be an issue could you try suggesting the employee to go to lunch earlier? That way he’s not in the post-lunch sleepytime stage during the meeting. (Or possibly later, but that might be pushing his lunch to an unreasonable hour.)

  31. Name*

    I think if a meeting can be easily moved to a better slot for a team and the only thing holding a manager back on that is “you are at work and expected to show up” that is poor management.

    I think if a meeting is not easily moved to a different slot and it is within core hours then it is up to the employee to figure out how to be an attentive member of that meeting.

    There is a lot of assuming the first thing is going on which is a little ridiculous.

  32. Derek*

    The TV show “Community” had an episode similar to #2, except the bar had old pictures of one of the characters extremely drunk instead of in a bikini. A study group outing is somewhat different from a workplace party too.

  33. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

    #1 Falling asleep in meetings is unusual, unprofessional and disrespectful, because with 3 other participants, his lack of engagement is really obvious. His reputation is suffering too. From the Op’s description, these particular meetings are very necessary.

    He is an adult who needs to stay awake during meetings – a perfectly reasonable job requirement at any age.
    Of course, if he needs a medical accommodation, the OP should be flexible, but in the absence of such need she should tell him not to fall asleep again when he is supposed to be working.

  34. MtheR*

    Re LW1: Something can be physically unavoidable, like falling asleep after eating, without necessarily being a “medical condition” that can be diagnosed by a doctor or should be addressed with medication. Maybe the guy has sleep apnea, or maybe he’s just a person who gets drowsy after eating and can’t help it. And if this is just the way that his body naturally works, I am *very, very wary* of advising him to deal with it medically. By far the kindest and most effective way to proceed in that circumstance would be minor adjustments either to the meeting time (which is hopefully more doable given that it’s a small meeting) or to his schedule and expectations (like an understanding if he takes a short nap during the day).

    I don’t even love the calls for more caffeine, because a) if this man has a consistent habit of drowsiness after eating, he’s probably already tried caffeine, and b) caffeine has lots of knock-on effects! It is a drug! Some people can’t tolerate it, some people find that it keeps them up later, some people just don’t like it, and no one should be expected to use it.

    1. MtheR*

      To elaborate, there seems to be a common assumption, both here and more generally, that there’s a strict delineation between “medical issues” which should be accommodated and also possibly treated by a doctor, and non-medical issues which are presumed to be totally under a person’s control and deserve no accommodation. Some of that probably comes from the ADA, which basically does work on that assumption. But it’s just not true. There are lots of things that relate to our bodies that are real and unavoidable but don’t fall under any particular medical diagnosis. There are things that our bodies do that are basically fine and healthy, but become obstacles under certain circumstances. Not all jobs can accommodate all of these things, and competing needs are very real, but *when possible*, it’s good management to accommodate what you can, not because of the legalities of the ADA, but because humans are human and will generally be happier and more effective when that is taken into account.

      Basically, the social model of disability isn’t perfect, but it captures the issues here really well, and I think it’s useful to keep in mind for these kinds of discussions.

  35. JelloStapler*

    Did anyone read LW5 too fast and think it said “Jewish” not “newish”? Then, I got very nervous about a manager wanting to give an employee a bigger bonus due to their faith/heritage.

    Then I realized.
    I need coffee.

  36. Not Everyone Can Wear Sandwiches*

    LW1: Are your meetings very slideshow based? Because no matter how old I get, how much caffeine I have on hand, or what time of day, if someone queues up a slideshow in an otherwise dark room there is a high chance I will spend the entire time fighting sleep. It could be about how the building is gonna explode and I will not be able to keep it together.

    I point this out because there is nothing *I* can do to mitigate that as an audience member, it’s on stuffy rooms and dim lighting.

    1. allathian*

      This is why I vastly prefer slideshows on Teams. At least I’m not fighting sleep in a dimly lit room. Our large town hall presentations are also cameras off for everyone but the presenters, so I can get up and stretch, etc.

  37. Kristy Thomas, BSC*

    I am a little surprised that nothing was said about a bar with bikini pics being kind of inappropriate for a work event in general. I personally have no issue with bikini contests as long as all the entrants are treated respectfully by the host/judges, etc. but I think I might be weirded out if I was at a work event at a bar covered in large bikini pics. Especially if its only women and there is no male equivalent like a bathing suit contest or something? I am not a prude but I am a woman and I know how (some, not all) men get around this type of photo and lose all judgment and say really sexist and often horrifyingly objectifying things about women’s bodies. It is not clear what type of venue there is but surely there is a venue in the area without this type of imagery around that would be a better choice?

  38. Eirian*

    Re: the sleeping in meetings:

    My wife falls asleep in meetings due to ADHD, plus maybe extra tiredness due to needing a CPAP. Medication helped, maybe the CPAP did too.

    Maybe if there’s no improvement when your employee is trying, you could suggest talking to a doctor about it?

  39. Erica*

    LW3 – check if the venue you are working for has any sort of union or award payment rules. Noting that I am a recovering American working abroad, I work for a venue and there are strict rules in this country around getting your roster, and penalties if there are changes within certain amounts of time, both from the union/award the employees are paid under and the venue rules themselves. I believe the draft is released 4 weeks ahead and then the firm roster 2 weeks ahead for 2 week periods. While last minute changes and issues do happen, this is how most venues SHOULD operate, so if they’re not willing to do the right thing I would advise looking elsewhere, as much as it sucks!

  40. Happy Pirate*

    #1, it’s a little unfair to treat your employee as if this is something they have any conscious control over. I suffer from the same issue and it’s essentially the inverse of ADHD. I even keep a pin in my pocket to prick myself with to try and stay awake but even that doesn’t really work. It is rather something that needs some accommodation rather than punishment.

  42. Angeldrac*

    I have ADHD and would often drop off in meetings or things where I would just have to sit and watch (eg when starting a new job and having to observe a lot of things). You HAVE to be an adult and be proactive with these things.
    I bring quiet fidgets, “mouth fidget” (something with texture that I can nibble or sip on quietly like Maltesers, gum, seeds, boba tea, cherry tomatos), notepad and pen (even if I will never look at notes again, it keeps me engaged and if it gets too much I start listing all the countries in Europe or something). I recognise if I’m getting droopy and excuse myself for a quick bathroom break (go and do some wall push ups or squats or balancing). Ignoring the problem and just “trying to do better” just doesn’t work – you need a plan and action. This poor employee needs to make a plan.
    Also, caffeine doesn’t work if you have ADHD, just a bit of trivia .

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