boss embarrassed me at a meeting, pre-hire drug and alcohol testing, and more by Alison Green on March 21, 2025 It’s four answers to four questions. Here we go… 1. My boss embarrassed me at a department meeting My company is being bought out for a larger organization. Our jobs will no longer exist in four months. We’ve been encouraged to review the job postings and apply to jobs for which we might qualify. I reviewed the postings and selected two to apply for — one that would be very easy for me to move to as it’s tasks I already complete daily. The other was a stretch position, something that I’ve done but haven’t dabbled much in while at my current organization. I got an interview for the stretch job and, while I didn’t hold out hope, I gave it my best shot. Thank goodness I didn’t hold out hope. My current boss was notified by the new org that I applied and interviewed. I was promptly told that I wasn’t a good fit (by my current org, mind you), and I haven’t heard from the new org. Then, in our departmental meeting with my entire department, my current boss told everyone they need to tell him what they’re applying for so he can tell them if they’re a “good fit” because “we don’t want a llama groomer thinking she can be a llama whisperer when she’s never been involved in llama whispering here!” And looked directly at me. (Job titles made up for anonymity, obviously.) I’m embarrassed. He could’ve just said, at that point, that I shouldn’t have applied for the job, but it’s a good next step in my career and something I’ve wanted to do for a while. I’m not sure how to even act around him now, because I know that was directed, embarrassingly, at me, and now all my coworkers do too and some have even come up to me to tell me how inappropriate it was. I know I need to leave the org because I can’t move up here and they have no interest in developing my career path, but I’m not sure how to act until I do leave. Your boss is an utter ass. First of all, it obviously wasn’t far-fetched for you to apply to that job because they interviewed you for it — which means that they reviewed your materials and thought you could be a plausible candidate. Second, and more importantly, there was zero cause for him to embarrass you that way at a department meeting. If he felt he needed to give you feedback (which is possible, given that the new org isn’t entirely separate from your org but is buying it out), he should have done it in private, and he should have offered something more constructive than to just essentially accuse you of hubris (which, again, wasn’t even grounded in reality, since the other org thought you worth interviewing). Your boss is a jackwagon, he revealed himself as a jackwagon to others at that meeting (although that probably wasn’t a new discovery for them, and I bet it’s not a new discovery for you either), and ideally you’d try to reframe your thinking to see it as much more embarrassing to him than to you. What he did is evidence of his lack of character/leadership/judgment, nothing else. 2. How to refer to a basketball sex scandal at work I was discussing the upcoming March Madness tournament with some coworkers, and the conversation turned to St. John’s coach Rick Pitino, and his previous stint at Louisville where he was stripped of a national championship due to supplying recruits with prostitutes to induce them to attend the school. My coworker was unaware Pitino’s team had been stripped of a title, only that he had won one (and that he had had similar success at other schools). I was unsure of how to reference the scandal in a way that was appropriate for work, but I eventually settled on saying that he offered the recruits “certain impermissible benefits” (which is more or less the official wording of the charges from the NCAA) and noted that even in today’s era, where you’re allowed to offer basically unfettered NIL (Name, Image, & Likeness) benefits to induce players to attend your school (which wasn’t the case at the time of the scandal), “that particular benefit that he offered is still not permitted, and I’ll just leave it at that.” Was this an appropriate way to reference what happened? It’s unnecessarily coy. It’s okay to just come out and say, “He supplied recruits with sex workers to try to induce them to attend the school.” That’s what happened, you’re alluding to it anyway, and it’s better to just say it rather than to dance around it with something mysterious sounding. Otherwise, it’s would probably be better to just say “unethical recruiting practices” rather than “certain impermissible benefits”; the latter just sounds very cryptic. 3. How should I handle a company’s pre-hire drug and alcohol testing? I am in the late stages of the interview process for an entry-level admin job at a manufacturing company. This company requires a pre-employment drug and alcohol test across the board for all new hires. Is there an appropriate way to inquire about this test? I would like to know the philosophy behind the request, particularly for an entry-level admin position, which is largely answering phones with some data entry. It is unclear to me how my nightly glass of wine would be any of their business. In addition, I have a prescription for a drug that is also recreationally legal in my state. I would like to inquire without giving too much information, but also not raise undue suspicion (I’m happy to say what my medical condition is in general, but overall it sounds like self declaring this stuff when you don’t otherwise need accommodations is a no-no). Or maybe I should just take the test and see what they say? Honestly, at this point I am wondering if this is a sign of a cultural mismatch. Unlike drug testing — which can pick up drug use days or, for some drugs, even weeks later — alcohol testing is testing for current impairment. So they’re not looking to see if you have a nightly glass of wine; they’re trying to catch people who are showing up to a daytime work appointment with alcohol in their system. It’s probably more relevant for their manufacturing jobs (for safety reasons), but they’ve made it part of their standard new hire testing. Marijuana testing is more complicated; those tests pick up longer-ago use (potentially weeks-old use if you’re a regular consumer). Some states that have legalized marijuana, but not all of them, have prohibited employers from taking action against employees who use it outside of work. Those laws vary in details; some bar employers from testing for it at all, while others permit the test but say employers can’t deny you a job based on a positive result. Some cover only medical use, while some cover recreational use as well; all make exceptions for safety-sensitive positions. This also gets more complicated for federal contractors, who are required to comply with drug-free workplace laws set at the federal level (where marijuana is still illegal). So in your shoes, I’d look up what your state law says about employment testing for marijuana and go from there. But as for inquiring about the philosophy behind the testing: they’ll almost certainly tell you that they want to have a drug-free workplace … which sounds like a perfectly reasonable stance for a manufacturing company, except that non-alcohol drug tests will detect private use in your own home in your off hours last weekend. Which is really why workplaces that care about safety should be using impairment tests instead; impairment tests check if you’re impaired for any reason, not just find out that you smoked a joint before bed a week ago. Performance tests measures things like hand-eye coordination and response time and are designed to catch multiple types of impairment, including legal ones like fatigue, and are used by NASA on astronauts and test pilots, and in other cases where safety matters more than drug testing theater. 4. Can I ask a nonprofit if they’re dependent on federal grants? I’m a displaced federal employee — I had exceptional performance reviews, but I was fired for “performance” with 28 days remaining in my first year. I’ve started my job search and have been frank about my situation with prospective employers — “I was terminated as part of recent mass firings, but I am happy to provide performance documentation as well as references from supervisors.” Now I have a possible interview. The position aligns with my abilities and interests, everything I’ve encountered feels positive, and it’s at a nonprofit with a mission that I would feel good about supporting. But after losing my beloved former position to the current administration, I’m nervous. Would it be appropriate for me to ask if/how their organization relies on federal grants? If so, would it be appropriate in the interview? How? (Additional complications I don’t even know where to start on: my former position might be reinstated, my former office might have a new opening that is exempted and also a good fit for me … but I don’t feel like I can count on either. I loved my workplace and the good we did, but I have to explore other options!) Yes, you can absolutely ask whether the organization, and this position in particular, rely on federal grants. That’s not an uncommon thing to ask about in nonprofit interviews, even before the current chaos, and it’s even more understandable right now. You can word it this way: “Do you rely on federal grants at all, and do you expect your budget, or this position itself, to be affected by what’s going on?” You may also like:I got in trouble for saying "bite me" in a meeting, the best day to apply for jobs, and moreangry ex told my boss I'm a drug addict, manager lets employee insult me, and morewhat to say if an interviewer asks about your favorite books or movies { 380 comments }
I’m a manager without enough work to do because my team handles everything by Alison Green on March 20, 2025 A reader writes: I work at a fairly large international company with several offices and remote workers all over the country. I manage a team of three graphic designers. My position and team are all new; previously all design work was outsourced. I was hired to put together a team and bring design in-house. I did all of the work in the beginning, and added additional designers one at a time. I am exempt, and my team are all non-exempt. Now that the team is running well, I’m finding myself without much to do. I meet with my boss biweekly to relay the status of our projects, new clients, vendor issues, etc. I have met all of his objectives, and he tells me I’m doing a great job. I do typical manager things like approve payroll and conduct employee evaluations, answer team member questions and offer assistance when needed, and review their work and offer feedback. They are all entry-level, so in the beginning I did a lot of training with them but now it’s only required if I introduce something new. This leaves me with a lot of extra time most weeks. I fill it with tutorials, reading management materials, and taking classes, but I am stressed about it because I know I wasn’t hired to do these things as my primary responsibility. I know that output is more important than hours worked, but I feel like the expectations are different for managers. My boss doesn’t assign my team’s work, and our workload depends on how many projects are coming in. I review the incoming requests and assign them to a designer, but I can’t create new projects that haven’t been requested by anyone. I have even stretched the definition of “graphic design” to get a few new projects sent our way. Is this common among managers? Or should I be able to figure out work to do without someone telling me? I could do more of my team’s work assignments, but I am afraid that could leave them without 40 hours of work, so I usually fill their plates first and just pitch in when things are really busy. My team is not likely to get any bigger, so I don’t anticipate the admin duties associated with being a manager to increase much. I would like to add that I am 60, female, and single, so leaving the position or company is not an option for me. I have been in the manager position for a little over a year, and with the company for three years. I’m of the school of thought that if your boss is happy and you’re helming a well-run, productive team that’s meeting their goals, you’re doing a good job as a manager. Of course, it’s important to define “well-run, productive team.” I’d define that as a team where: – when work is completed, it generally looks like you wanted it to (indicating some of combination of having trained people well, getting aligned on expectations at the start and otherwise setting clear expectations, and checking in appropriately as work progresses) – you know where work stands and would catch it early if something were significantly off-track – if your team is asked what their their goals and priorities are, their answers would line up with your answer – people feel comfortable giving input, suggesting ideas, and taking initiative, and feel they have a reasonable amount of room to figure out the best way to achieve a project’s goals (as opposed to you dictating every step in the process) – people know where they’re doing well and where they should work on improving, because you talk about it explicitly and give regular feedback – your employees seem reasonably enthusiastic about their work, put the team’s success ahead of personal agendas (most of the time), generally have good will toward one another and minimal drama, and feel they’re treated fairly and with respect – you retain your strongest performers for a good solid period of time – you address problems quickly, including removing people from the team if coaching and opportunities to improve don’t solve the problem, and you don’t have any concerns about team members that you haven’t talked with them about – when you’re on vacation, you’re confident that work is moving forward well in your absence, without you constantly checking in If you look at that list and spot things you don’t have in place, those are good places to focus some energy. If you’ve got all that checked off, is there room to do more strategic thinking and planning — maybe longer-term goals that aren’t just about processing projects as they come in? I know you said you don’t want to take more of your team’s assignments in case it leaves them without enough work, but it might be interesting to talk to them about whether they could use more breathing room, and whether there are things they’d like to work on if they ever had the time. Maybe the answer to both of those will be no, but those could be interesting conversations. You can also think about investing time in developing your staff: what are their goals professionally? Are there skills they want to build, and ways for you to work on building those with them? Particularly since these are entry-level employees, there’s likely a lot of room to go down that path if you and they want to. If none of the above changes things … well, congratulations, your boss is happy and you’ve built and lead a well-run, productive team that’s meeting its goals. One caveat to all this: It’s worth making sure that your skills are staying up-to-date and you have accomplishments to put on your resume. I know you said you don’t plan to job-search, but that’s not always fully in your control, and you don’t want to find yourself job-searching from a weak position if you ever need to. I have no particular reason to worry that would be the case for you — building and leading a well-functioning team that meets ambitious goals is a marketable skill — but it’s something to keep in the back of your head too. You may also like:10 things great bosses doI'm bored in my first job out of college -- but everything except the work is greatI don’t have enough work and my boss is too busy to give me more { 68 comments }
update: my coworkers have way more money than me … and they constantly expect me to shell out cash for meals and gifts by Alison Green on March 20, 2025 Remember the letter-writer whose coworkers had way more money than her but constantly expected her to shell out cash for meals and gifts? Here’s the update. Thanks for posting my letter and for your advice a while back. I have a somewhat unsatisfying update. The gift-giving has slowed down considerably, presumably because the federal workplace isn’t exactly festive at the moment. However, the original issue recently showed up in a different form. Our office admin offered to put together (what I understood to be) a no-host happy hour as a send-off event for a colleague who recently got DOGE’d. (Note: I understood it to be a no-host event because that is the norm for our field. In fact, when I first arrived they held a welcome happy hour for me, and everybody, including me, paid their own bill.) I truthfully mentioned that I had a schedule conflict that would have caused me to only be able to stay a few minutes and she told me how important it was that I show up for the laid-off coworker and at least come say goodbye. I saw her point and showed my face. I was the second person to arrive at the venue. The first person to arrive (the same colleague from my last letter who is always declaring “let’s just split it!” and “Jane doesn’t have to pay, we’ll all cover her”) had already ordered a spread of appetizers and a bottle of her own favorite spirit. I mentioned that I wouldn’t be ordering anything because I had to rush out right away. Once the rest of the group had arrived and the server took orders, I again announced, “Nothing for me, since I have to leave early.” Over the weekend, the same lady copied me to an email explaining that the bill had come to nearly $400 and assigning us all a portion that we’d need to send her. Apparently, she put the whole thing on her credit card and is looking to be reimbursed. I didn’t respond since I obviously racked up $0 of this outrageous bill. Seriously, how many $6 cocktails and $7 flatbreads could six humans possibly have ordered in 120 minutes?? Anyway, my husband told me that in times like these, it’s more important than ever to be viewed as a team player lest I be added to the “chopping block,” which is our name for the Elon-requested list of of individuals whose jobs can safely be cut. So, on Monday I reached out to her and reminded her that I didn’t order/consume anything but could still chip in a bit for team spirit. She responded with a fixed amount that she expected each attendee to pay — about twice the amount I had in mind — and followed up saying, “I know this feels unfair since you didn’t eat, but since we hosted Bob, you can think of it as your portion of the cost of his going-away party.” First of all, we as a team, absolutely did not agree to “host” a going-away party for Bob. And at any rate, that’s not how any of this works. I do not know why this one person gets to just invent this nonsense reimbursement system in which she pays what she wants and assigns the rest of us to cover the rest regardless of our actual consumption. She eventually followed up with a second email to me only saying, “Of course, if you prefer not to contribute, I understand,” to which I projected some snark that may or may not have been intended. I Venmo’d her the amount I was comfortable with and vowed to never spend any time with these folks outside the office ever, ever again. This may not be an issue much longer as I’m informed that my entire office is slated to get DOGE’d in the next couple of weeks. Some folks are being reassigned and some are being axed entirely. My takeaway from the happy hour experience is that my team’s earlier behavior had nothing to do with rich people being out of touch with most people’s spending-related norms and simply needing me to bring it to their attention. Since: (1) my colleague was fully aware that I didn’t eat or drink, but still spelled out that I need to pay 1/5 of the bill, and (2) remarked that it may “seem unfair” for me to subsidize everyone else’s excesses and encouraged me to view it a different way as though I am the one with a perception problem, it seems to me that it was always a matter of unreasonable people feeling entitled to my money. You may also like:my coworkers have way more money than me ... and they constantly expect me to shell out cash for meals and giftsmy coworker owes me money and won't pay it back, my coworker's panic attacks are affecting my work, and morehow do I ask the CEO if I can "borrow" his assistant for my projects? { 219 comments }
let’s discuss the weirdest hills to die on you’ve seen at work by Alison Green on March 20, 2025 Over the years, we’ve heard about people who chose some pretty odd hills to die on — people who became so strongly committed to a minor fight that they lost all sight of logic and decorum. To wit: “Our break room has a giant whiteboard calendar in it. Last year the company sent us a new one and asked us to start using it at the first of this year. Not really sure why … the other was perfectly usable and there was no differing info on it, but hey, whatever! The new calendar is slightly smaller than the previous one – as in the previous calendar was 36×48 inches and the new one is 32×44 inches. The woman who updates this calendar was FURIOUS about this change. Oh the campaign this woman has waged to get the old calendar back – she sends emails, complains to every single employee at least once a day, has started tours of our branch in the break room (she points to the board and announces ‘this is the piece of crap calendar they expect us to use’), and holds that fury in her heart. Recently a few big wigs in the company were visiting and she started her tour as usual and then she paused as if expecting them to agree with her. They didn’t, she sighed heavily and moved on with her tour. Before they left she made sure to send them back to the home office with a list outlining why the new calendar sucks. You know they just crumpled that crap up into a ball the second they got into the car.” • • • • • “When I started an office IT job, one of my first assignments was to clean up and update everyone’s computers. The first time I worked with this one coworker’s computer, it was a complete mess. He had some kind of add on for IE that added a little animated Olaf (from the movie Frozen) that would dance around and occasionally have animated snowflakes fall down the screen. Needless to say, it slowed his computer to a crawl, and he was always complaining about how slow his computer was. So, among general scans and cleanup, I removed the add on. He was LIVID. Went to my boss, to HR, to the head boss, because his animated dancing snowman that messed up his computer was gone. Phrases like ‘she has no right’ and ‘how dare she’ were thrown around. He made a big show of downloading some other hideous animated nav bar add on instead, and kept trying to flaunt it whenever I was nearby.” • • • • • “Upon being told that it was now mandatory to wear your badge on a lanyard (no, not a clip, not on your belt, it had to be a lanyard), one woman completely lost it. She stood up (this was a meeting) and ranted about how lanyards were UGLY and they RUINED her outfits and WHY OH WHY was this a rule because EVERYONE hated it (no, the rest of us were fine) and so on. She compared it to ‘papers, please’ and how this was the slippery slope that would lead to robot workers and oh there was so much more but I can’t remember it all. Over the next few weeks she tried wearing her lanyard inside her blouse (no, the point is that the badge is visible) and claiming she just forgot until she got written up… and SHE QUIT. Well, took early retirement, but still.” • • • • • “When I worked at a Scout camp, we would usually get two shirts each summer specific to the year: a polo shirt in that summer’s color, and a t-shirt listing what area of the camp you worked in. For years we wore the polo shirts on Mondays and the area shirts on Wednesdays, when families came to visit. Then one year management decided we should switch that, so campers could see who worked where at the start of the week and we’d all look nice and fancy when Mom and Dad showed up. There was a minor uprising. Yelling arguments. Flat refusal to cooperate. We had staff for YEARS after the change who would wear the wrong shirt and say “oh — you didn’t tell me we were doing it different this week from how we’ve always done it.” We had staff members going so far as to carry two shirts with them all day Monday and Wednesday so they could put on the correct shirt when management was around, then change back to the other shirt when nobody was looking. Some of the worst offenders were our old retired guys (who are like gold, it’s hard to find adults to work at summer camp, so they weren’t disciplined over minor shirt disobedience) and carried the torch for their preferred shirt rotation for a literal decade after the change.” • • • • • In the comment section, let’s discuss the weirdest hills to die on you’ve ever seen at work. You may also like:coworker has temper tantrums whenever there’s noise, rigid vacation policy, and morehow to say "I'll quit over this"employee threatens to sue us when we tell her to save work files, I don't want to put up holiday decorations, and more { 694 comments }
swiping on a coworker on a dating app, bosses gave a perk to their spouses instead of to employees, and more by Alison Green on March 20, 2025 It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go… 1. Is swiping on a coworker on a dating app grounds for an HR meeting? Asking for a friend: They absent-mindedly swiped on a coworker in a dating app (whom they asked out once two years earlier). Said coworker was uncomfortable with that and went to HR, and they all had a sit-down about leaving said coworker alone. I am all for not harassing people you work with romantically, but I am also conflicted — is swiping right on a coworker on Bumble or Tinder grounds for an HR intervention? They are both on a dating app, after all — a place where you are opening up yourself to these kinds of interactions explicitly. And then the interaction has to be mutual anyway — both people need to “initiate” conversation here, without knowing if the other person has done so. (Apparently in this case their coworker was paying for premium rights to see who was swiping on them, and spoke with HR without initiating.) Dating apps also location-based, and so a lot of coworkers might show up there. Having worked at a 500-person office, I probably have swiped on several without realizing! A lot of people also use these by quickly swiping, not necessarily making a researched decision every time. I might be utterly off-base here, but I want to be sure not to alienate people I work with. What would be the correct etiquette here? This doesn’t sound like someone who reported a coworker to HR simply for swiping right on them on a dating app. Their perspective is likely that the coworker had already asked them out and been told no, now they’re making another overture, and they work together so it’s extra aggravating that they weren’t respecting the original no. It still could have been overkill to involve HR — but so much of this depends on how your friend handled the original rejection and how they’ve treated the coworker since then. Related: I matched with a coworker on a dating site if you’re thinking of asking a coworker on a date… 2. Our bosses gave a perk to their spouses instead of to other employees Our company is very small, three joint owners and three employees. Our company has a business relationship with another company, and as a result they’ve offered tickets to the F1 Grand Prix in our area this year. Both bosses immediately planned to use the tickets on both themselves (this is understandable) and then both of their spouses. My question is about the latter — is it actually appropriate for them to share this perk with spouses instead of employees? It just struck me as a bit weird and self-interested for the initial instinct to be to share it with their spouses, who are unaffiliated with the company in any way outside of being their romantic partners, instead of with the very few employees they actually have. I would love to have some insight on whether or not this is appropriate or normal behavior, as I don’t know if I should speak up and say that it bothered me that romantic partners who don’t work here were going to be seeing perks that employees are not. It’s definitely a thing that happens with certain perks. It varies by company, but in a lot of workplaces there isn’t an automatic assumption that this sort of perk will distributed equitably, or that executives’ spouses won’t be included ahead of employees. You see it particularly with tickets, but you also see it with dinners out and trips (where spouses might be included too) I don’t think it’s an outrage that warrants complaining about it, but it’s also not particularly gracious of the owners, and it’s something really good leaders wouldn’t do. Good leaders see that kind of gift as an opportunity to reward people, build morale, and make them feel like a valued part of the team (and that’s true even if the tickets were specifically a thank-you to the owners for choosing to give their business to the other company). But while I don’t think you should complain, per se, there’s also nothing wrong with asking if employees can be included the next time something like that is offered. 3. My manager is from a country at war with mine I am living in Europe but I have a lot of family in Ukraine. My job just hired a new line manager for my team, an external hire. Today was their first day on the job and we had a team meeting where we were all being introduced for the first time. After a round of introductions, they said, “I noticed that there are multiple people from Ukraine on the team. I am from Russia, I wonder how that will go.” My internal reaction was, “Yes, I wonder as well, and I really wish this wasn’t sprung up on me in a team meeting.” Obviously, we should all treat people as individuals, I don’t know what their position is on the war, and good for them for noticing the inherent trickiness of the situation. But they didn’t follow up with any explicit comments about what they believe, and even just that makes me worried about how I’d have to phrase things about them. My job has been happy with my performance so far but there has been periodic impact on my day-to-day work when family and friends had various losses, injuries, and close calls that affected me as well, and I generally gave context to my manager about what was going on without thinking too hard about how to phrase it. Do you think my company should have done anything differently (other than not hiring a good candidate, which seems unreasonable)? Are there things that I should consider for dealing with this? In the past all my managers checked in with me on how things were going and while I don’t rant about my personal life, I haven’t had to worry about saying something controversial before, I guess I had the good luck of working with people who had similar views on political events that affected me personally. It would have been odd if your company had done anything differently. People aren’t their countries, and there’s no reason to assume anything either way about the new hire’s stance; the only thing it makes sense to assume is that they’ll behave professionally no matter what political differences they might have with team mates (on anything, not just this). If that turns out not to be the case, that’s something you’d need to escalate, but that would be an aberration, not something anyone should go in expecting will happen. The new hire’s comment was a little awkward, but it actually doesn’t reveal much and likely was borne out of feeling awkward about things themself. I think, too, that if you’re affected by something affecting your family’s safety, it’s still fine to share that! It’s likely to go better if everyone proceeds from the assumption that all involved are decent people with empathy for others. If that turns out not to be the case, you’ll find out soon enough (and is something you’d need to escalate, per my first paragraph), but don’t ascribe that to them prematurely. I hope your family is safe. 4. How to say “this was your idea” to my manager I have a new skip-level boss who is making me insane. There are a number of ways she’s not good at managing and working for her is incredibly unpleasant, so I’m trying to get out even though I love my job. In the meantime, I need to survive a recurring dynamic. “Andrea” will tell me to create a spreadsheet showing X, Y, and Z information. All this is available in our reporting system, but she wants it in a spreadsheet format. Then she’ll tell me to add on A and B. This will take me days to create. I’ll send it to her, and then wake up with comments all over the sheet: “Why are we reporting on B?” “How did you define X?” “What is this A column?” The answer to all of those is… you asked me for it. You told me you wanted to see B so there it is. X is defined as exactly what you told me to pull. Column A is the column that you said you needed. I feel like either I’m stupid because I can’t understand why this keeps happening, or she’s forgetting what she asked for. She is unpleasant and does not take feedback well, so I am very hesitant to name the dynamic; my direct manager is kind but not able to shield me. What’s a professional script for “I have no idea why you wanted this, but you asked for it so I gave it to you” when I get asked about things like this? Start preempting the question when you initially send the work. For example, when you send her a spreadsheet with edits she requested, write this in the email: “You asked me yesterday to add A and B to the C spreadsheet, so I’ve done that here. A is defined as ___ and B is defined as ___. Please let me know if you want me to do it differently.” If you miss the chance to do that and end up getting questioned later about why you did something she asked you to do, it’s fine to say, “My understanding from your feedback on Tuesday was that you wanted me to add A and B. Did I misunderstand what you were looking for?” Say this neutrally, like you’re genuinely curious if you misunderstood something, not with a subtext of “how do you not remember this?” You can also try shooting her a quick summary of your take-aways when she requests things from you. For example: “To recap, I’ll add A and B to the C spreadsheet, defining A as ___ and B as ___, and will have it back to you tomorrow.” 5. Should I list myself as currently employed? I am/was a federal probationary employee (i.e., I have less than a year of government service). Just over a month ago, I was swept up in the mass termination of probationary employees across the federal government. This week, I was reinstated as part of a temporary restraining order in a court case challenging the legality of that mass termination. However, in the intervening month, my entire unit was subjected to a reduction in force (also of questionable legality and about to face legal challenge). Therefore, when I was reinstated, I was immediately placed on paid administrative leave, which will continue until the reduction in force takes full effect and I am completely separated from federal service (in the absence of legal intervention). I am of course applying for other jobs, but now that I’ve been reinstated, I don’t know how to represent or how much to explain my current circumstances in application documents. How do I list my employment status while I’m on paid administrative leave? Do I just use “present” as the end date of my government service and leave it at that? Or should I list the date I was terminated, which was the last time I did any substantive work as a government employee? If I list myself as presently employed, do I need to explain in my cover letter why I’m looking for alternate employment after less than a year on the job? Or do employers understand why federal employees are all searching for jobs at this point, regardless of their exact circumstances? You’re still legally an employee there, so go ahead and list your employment as “to present” (so “May 2024 – present” or whatever). That’s reasonable to do regardless, and it’s especially reasonable given how much uncertainty is surrounding all of this. You don’t need to explain the situation in your cover letter — hiring managers know — but it’s also fine to allude to it in a single sentence if you want to; just don’t use any more cover letter real estate on it than that. (More about that here.) 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everyone likes me, so why am I not in the group chat? by Alison Green on March 19, 2025 A reader writes: I started a new job about four months ago in a team of six people in a mid-sized company, and my five immediate coworkers have been nothing but nice and helpful. They answer all of my questions, take lots of time to explain stuff, include me in lunch plans, go out of their way to make sure I have the equipment I need, etc. We spend one week per month in the office and work from home the rest of the time. There is a group chat for just our team and our manager where we discuss work, but also post the occasional funny meme, talk about our weekends, just normal stuff. The thing is that I’m pretty sure there is another group chat with the same people minus our manager to which I have not been invited. This is starting to bug me a little bit, but I’m not sure if I should say something? I “know” about the other chat because during my interview, when I was given the opportunity to talk to one future coworker alone, I asked about the culture around communication and he mentioned they have group chat with the boss and one without. When I never encountered the second one once I started working, I figured that I misremembered that, but recently I had my first annual review with my boss and he made an offhanded remark like, “I know you guys have this chat where you probably talk shit about me, but I don’t care as long as the work gets done.” To which I just said something noncommittal. Some background: I’m the first new person in the team (barring temps and interns) in more than a decade. I’m also the only woman. It’s possible to share only the immediate history of a group chat, so if they wrote something weird about me early on, they could invite me without me seeing that. I don’t think the others are close friends outside of work, but they have worked together for ages and know each other well as a result. It’s not an issue of me not receiving information about career opportunities and the like. We are all established in our careers, 40 and older, and it’s a very collaborative job. It’s pretty much impossible to make oneself look good at the expense of others. In my review, our manager said that everyone told him that I’m a great addition to the team, and I’m not worried about being excluded from (male) networking opportunities because the job doesn’t work that way anyway. Their jobs are also super secure (in Europe, unionized), no reason to feel threatened by the newbie. It’s also a job that attracts introverted, slightly awkward people (I include myself in that). My coworkers have pretty niche interests they can get very intense about, that I don’t necessarily share. I think they either just write about their nerdy stuff there and haven’t invited me because they rightly assume I wouldn’t be interested anyway, or else they talk really bad shit about our manager and don’t (yet) feel safe that I wouldn’t tell him if I saw that. In both cases I’m probably better off not being in that group chat, but I’m still feeling a little weird about being excluded. How long would you wait before saying something, if at all? Do you want to be in the second group chat? If you don’t really care, I wouldn’t bother saying anything at all. It’s very likely that one of the explanation is one of these, some of which you’ve already considered: * they use it mostly for niche interests that they know or assume you don’t share * they use it to shit-talk the boss and they don’t feel comfortable adding a new person to that (I wouldn’t normally assume this is the explanation, but it’s interesting that your boss himself described it that way, and it makes me curious whether you’ve noticed an unusual level of grumbling about the boss and/or whether he might be particularly frustrating to work for) * they’re somewhat socially graceless and thus never thought about adding you * something about the chat feels particularly male to them and they assume a woman wouldn’t be interested (this potentially covers a really wide range of things, from “90% of the chat is fantasy football and, rightly or wrongly, we assume that’s not your thing” to “there’s harassment in that chat”) * they just feel closer to each other, having worked together longer, and it’s just their friend group chat and they don’t really see it as a second work chat That said, if it’s bothering you, there’s no reason you can’t say, “Hey, is there a group chat for all of us except Frank, and can I get in on that if so?” If there’s some reason they don’t want to add you, they can say, “Oh, it’s literally all about ancient Roman military strategy and occasional falconry talk, we figured you wouldn’t be interested in it” or whatever. You may also like:my "hybrid" team is using me as their way to not go to the office at allis it a red flag if a team has a group text?my new boss scolded us about our private chat messages { 117 comments }
is it bad for managers to sound frustrated? by Alison Green on March 19, 2025 A reader writes: I’m wondering whether a good boss should ever show impatience. One of my employees, Jane, does a good job. I’ve given her a lot of (well-deserved) praise in public and private, and she’s said she’s happy in her work. However, she made a serious error the other day and when I brought it up with her, she shrugged and said it couldn’t be helped. I confess that my tone got impatient and I said something like, “No, we need to fix this because otherwise X.” I wasn’t shouting or otherwise being a jerk, but I definitely sounded impatient. I could see she was surprised, probably because I am usually cheerful and mellow. We worked together in the moment and found a solution. But later that same day, I noticed she was teary at her desk and I asked what was wrong. She could only shake her head and so I said, “Okay, I’ll leave you alone but let me know if you want to take a break or something.” Today I was meeting with another manager and she said, “I want to tell you something.” Evidently she too noticed that Jane was not okay and asked what was wrong. Jane answered that I’d been disrespectful to her, and that she needed to be respected at work or else she’d quit. The other manager was really good about bringing it up with me, phrasing it in terms of, “I know you weren’t horrible to her and she was being oversensitive, I am just letting you know. Maybe just say it more gently next time.” I was taken aback because it never even occurred to me that I had upset her! I found myself thinking that as I was going through my career, I have had a lot of harsh bosses who would shout and make demeaning comments. I didn’t think that saying something impatiently would even register with someone. Am I so inured now that I’m inadvertently perpetuating some of these negative patterns? The fact is, I’m responsible for the department’s work so if I point out a serious mistake, that needs to be taken seriously, not shrugged off. However, this has made me really question myself. Am I often upsetting people without even realizing it? Should I be more careful about sounding impatient or brusque while I am in this role? I answer this question over at Inc. today, where I’m revisiting letters that have been buried in the archives here from years ago (and sometimes updating/expanding my answers to them). You can read it here. You may also like:how do I deal with a boss who "yells" in angry emails?I was fired for what I think are trivial reasonsadvice for new managers { 135 comments }
my promotion was pulled after I tried to negotiate the salary by Alison Green on March 19, 2025 A reader writes: I’m writing to you because I believe what happened to me today (literally 30 minutes ago) is a lesson to be learned — though I’m struggling to identify exactly what that lesson is. For the past eight months, I’ve been working for a small company, and I absolutely love my job. In fact, since starting here, I’ve grown to love it even more. My manager (the CEO) told me that I would be receiving a promotion, but I decided to wait until everything was officially confirmed in writing before getting too excited. That day finally arrived, and I received an email with my promotion letter. However, the salary increase was disappointingly low — almost £35K below market rates. (I work in the UK.) I responded with a huge thank you for the opportunity, while also asking if there was room for a discussion regarding the salary. I followed your advice and went into the salary discussion well-prepared. I outlined the projects I have successfully worked on and delivered, highlighting my achievements. I also provided data on market salary benchmarks for the role and detailed what the new position would entail, including line management responsibilities. During the discussion, my manager tried to downplay the promotion, saying it was “just a change of title” and that I was “already doing the job” — as if that justified the lack of a meaningful salary increase. Fast forward to the actual discussion, and he was very adamant that the salary wouldn’t be changed. We ended the conversation with him saying, “I’ll think about it.” During the discussion, I also mentioned that I was looking forward to contributing to the leadership team. Then today, completely out of the blue, he told me that he didn’t like the conversation and that I would no longer be getting promoted. I feel absolutely shattered. I tried to understand his reasoning, and he said it was because of the conversation we had. I explained that salary discussions are completely normal and that if I was hiring/promoting someone, I would expect to have a salary conversation. I suggested that perhaps we weren’t on the same page, but to me, it didn’t seem like a terrible conversation at all. I’d really appreciate your thoughts on this. Wow. Your manager … kind of sucks here. I suppose it’s possible that something about the way you handled the conversation was really off — you were rude or overly argumentative, or the number you were asking for was wildly out of whack with what the role is envisioned as. But if that were the case, a decent manager would have been more explicit about what the issue was. It would be one thing if he’d said, “This position will require handling delicate negotiations with skill and tact, and after you shouted at me, slammed your fist on the table, and cited numbers for a completely different job, I’m rethinking whether it makes sense to move you into the role as we conceived it.” But it sounds like what he said was more that he didn’t like that you had the audacity to think you could try to negotiate salary at all and should have just been grateful for what you were offered. Now, maybe I’m wrong about that. I wasn’t there for the conversation, and I don’t know what your boss’s side of this would be. But it sounds like you don’t know either, because he didn’t bother to elaborate — and that itself makes his handling of it suspect. Also, his statement that it was “just a change of title” doesn’t make a lot of sense because they did offer you a raise with it, so a raise was already on the table; you were just negotiating the amount. It is true that salaries for internal promotions don’t always match up well with market benchmarks. A lot of companies, either formally or informally, put limits on the increase they’ll give when you take an internal promotion, even if that puts your new salary below market rates for the role. That generally doesn’t make sense; they should pay what the work is worth, which is what they’d pay an outside candidate. However, there are cases where that approach is more defensible, like if you’re getting a chance at a job that you probably wouldn’t have been competitive for as an outside candidate, but which you’re getting because you’re internal. (Even then, though, once you’ve demonstrated you can do the job at a high level, you should be bumped to market rate for the work.) It’s possible there was something like that at work here — but then your manager should have explained that, not left the impression that he was yanking the offer solely because you tried to negotiate. If I were in your shoes, I’d go back to your manager to talk, framing it as, “I hoped we could talk through what happened with the promotion discussion because it’s important to me to be on the same page as you. My understanding has always been that it’s normal to negotiate salary, whether as an outside candidate or an internal one, and I want to make sure I understand what happened. Was there something about the way I approached the conversation that raised concerns for you?” You may also like:I'm getting a promotion -- with mystery payI got promoted, but I can't get a fair salaryis a salary request 40% over the max enough to rescind an offer? { 283 comments }
HR changed our performance reviews, do I have to announce my pregnancy at work, and more by Alison Green on March 19, 2025 It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go… 1. Should I say something about past allegations against a colleague? I started a new position about six months ago, working with partner organizations across the state on community projects. On a recent call, I was surprised to see someone I’ll call Brad. I knew Brad from my time teaching in a different city, where he was an activist in the reproductive health rights space. A few years ago, Brad had to leave that work and relocate after being accused of grooming minors. Two friends who work in that space told me about it at the time. Now, Brad is working in a different community-focused role, and while it’s unrelated to reproductive health, they are still in a position of influence. My role is to provide technical assistance to help make a project feasible for the community Brad works with. Brad is actively facilitating conversations with our partners. It feels surreal to be in meetings with someone who had to leave their previous job due to allegations of being a sexual predator. However, everything I know is secondhand. I don’t know if Brad’s new role involves minors. Do I have an obligation to say something to my boss? Should I bring this up, even if I don’t have firsthand knowledge? Or is this one of those situations where I just have to compartmentalize and move on? I don’t think you have an obligation to say something to your boss since (a) Brad isn’t working for your organization and (b) you heard about the allegations secondhand. But I don’t think think you’d be wrong to have a quiet word with your boss about it either — framed as, “I only have secondhand knowledge of this and no idea if his current job involves minors, but given that minors were involved previously, I felt uncomfortable keeping it to myself. Is this something you think we need to do anything with?” 2. HR unilaterally changed our performance reviews During our most recent performance review period, managers were told that they had to score 75% of employees as 3s on the overall 1 through 5 rating scale (5 being the best), with the remainder split between 1/2/4/5s. Apparently, despite this, there were too many high scores given so HR went in and — seemingly randomly since they most certainly don’t have insight into people’s day-to-day performance — knocked people down to 3s. They also asked managers to change their comments on the reviews of people who had this happen to reflect the new scores. I was among this lucky demoted group, and since confirming that neither my manager or grandboss had any input on this change, I’ve felt increasingly frustrated by this situation since it has the potential to affect future promotions as well as this year’s salary increase and bonus. Ranting about it to a friend who works in a different industry I found that his company had done the same thing! Is this a new trend? Can you think of any way to push back against this? One further complication is that it’s unclear if HR realizes that everyone knows what they did (a lot of managers were not happy with the changes). This is not a new trend, but it’s a ridiculous practice. There have always been companies that insist on a certain distribution of performance evaluation ratings, which has always caused problems for managers and teams whose performance didn’t line up with the required distribution of scores. But the idea of HR randomly changing ratings and then demanding managers rewrite their comments to justify those ratings is an extra level of ridiculous; typically they’d just tell managers that they need to change their ratings and leave it to them to decide how to do that. I do wonder whether it’s true that HR chose the new ratings randomly or whether it was based on anything (including conversations with managers). Managers wouldn’t necessarily disclose the latter to you, and might even prefer to let HR take the blame. As for pushing back — if you’ve had glowing feedback all year (especially if it’s documented, but even if it’s not) and/or if you’ve met/exceeded the goals that were laid out for you, you could certainly highlight that and ask how your rating squares with your performance and the feedback you’ve received from your manager. They might not care, but it’s a reasonable avenue to pursue. 3. Do I have to announce my pregnancy at work? Would it be extremely weird if I just didn’t widely announce my pregnancy at work? My boss and grandboss know, and a few other individuals I chose to tell, but I just really don’t want to make a big email announcement. I have a lot of anxiety about this pregnancy and it feels like a jinx (even though logically I know it’s not). But people will be able to tell I’m pregnant soon. Will it be weird if I go around with an obviously pregnant belly without ever having said anything? Am I inviting gossip and/or nosy questions? Do I just need to get over myself and send the darn email? In some office cultures it might be a little weird. That doesn’t mean you have to announce if you don’t want to, though, and it sounds like the people who need to know already do. For what it’s worth, in the offices where it would be unusual, I do think you could be inviting more speculation and gossip by not sharing it with the people you work with the mostly closely. Again, you don’t have to if you don’t want to, obviously it’s no one’s business, etc. etc., but realistically on closer-knit teams, people may notice and wonder if they missed an announcement. In fact, an advantage of sending a brief announcement is that if you want to, you could explicitly say, “I’m nervous about the pregnancy and would prefer not to be asked about it at work, thanks for understanding.” Related: my employee didn’t tell anyone she was pregnant until she was about to give birth 4. Was this training’s explanation of discrimination correct? I had to take a training on workplace discrimination and harassment that was mandatory for all employees at my company. As part of the training, we were asked a series of hypothetical questions and had to answer whether they constituted discrimination or harassment. One example involved a graphic design company that had a project to design a logo for a football team, and gave the project to a male employee over a female one because “men know more about football then women.” The explanation given was that it was discrimination because whether someone knows about football is not relevant to their job performance. It seems to me that if you’re designing a logo for a football team, your knowledge of football is indeed relevant to your ability to do so. The issue here is that they assumed the male employee must know more about football than the female employee solely because of his gender. Therefore, it does indeed constitute discrimination but the provided explanation is wrong. Whose explanation is correct? Yours. It’s illegal discrimination to assign a project based on gender (“men know more about football than women do”) but not to assign a project based on a specific person’s knowledge or interest (“Lucas knows the most about football”). Whoever presented this training (a) doesn’t have a good grasp of the material and (b) probably got sidetracked by the gendered nature of the sport and hopefully would recognize that “I’m assigning X to Lucas because he knows a ton about frogs” would be fine. 5. Are non-competes still legal? I had a recruiter reach out to me for a job at a direct competitor. I’m not looking to leave, but I also mentioned that I have a non-compete. He told me those “aren’t a thing anymore” and it wouldn’t hold up in court anyway. But I’ve been tracking them and saw that the FTC was trying to pass a law in September to stop non-competes nationally but it was being challenged by two different Texas courts and now the law is in limbo. The recruiter said I was wrong, so I wanted to ask you since I know you have reported on them in the past. Can you give us an update? Again, I’m not looking to leave, but if I was I wouldn’t be comfortable with “it wouldn’t hold up in court.” Yes, non-competes are still legal at the federal level. In April 2024, the Federal Trade Commission announced it would ban them for most U.S. workers, saying they stifle wages. But before that could take effect, two federal courts (one in Texas and one in Florida) issued injunctions blocking it, saying the agency lacked the authority to issue the rule. The FTC was originally expected to appeal those rulings, but that’s much less likely to happen under the new administration. In addition, in 2023 the National Labor Relations Board’s (NLRB) general counsel issued a memo stating that non-competes violate the National Labor Relations Act in most circumstances. However, that general counsel has been removed by the new administration, and that directive is very likely to be rescinded. So for the time being, non-competes remain legal federally. However, four states ban non-competes completely (California, Minnesota, North Dakota, and Oklahoma), and 33 more plus Washington, D.C. restrict them (generally via banning them for hourly wage workers or workers below a salary threshold). 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my employee says I have to give her longer breaks because she’s a smoker by Alison Green on March 18, 2025 A reader writes: I own/manage a business, let’s say a retail heath care equipment supply company that is located in a larger health care campus. I have multiple employees, and for a six-hour shift they get two 15-minute breaks. It isn’t intense or overly physically exhausting work, but I realize it is nice to step away for a few minutes. No problems until a few weeks ago when I hired “Deleana.” She looked great on paper so I hired her. Come to find out she is a smoker. Recently we had a meeting about her ongoing tardiness from breaks and the possibility of disciplinary action, up to and including termination. She then said that I was violating her “smoker’s rights” because she didn’t have enough time to get to her car, have a relaxing cigarette, and make it back in time as the campus is a non-smoking area and she needs to walk a block (or more) to where she can park and smoke. I told her that smoker’s rights really don’t exist and she knew of the campus’ policy as she had to pass multiple signs when she came in for the job interview. So no, she wasn’t going to get an extended break time. Today she surprised me with saying I am not accommodating her physical disabilities (she can’t walk fast enough to her car apparently to get a cigarette finished) and she won’t say what her disabilities are, nor does she (according to her) need to tell me. She said will be visiting her doctor to get a note saying I need to accommodate her disability by giving her longer breaks so she can smoke. Is this a thing? Can somebody require an accommodation just so an employee has time to smoke a cigarette? A quick Google search on work breaks shows that I may not even need to give breaks which would solve the problem, but would be unfair to the other employees. Haha, no. Smoking is not considered a disability under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), nor is it protected under that law. Interestingly, when the ADA was being drafted, the tobacco lobby did try to get smoking included in the definition of “disability.” Since they were simultaneously trying to maintain that smoking wasn’t addictive, they tried to get it covered as a “perceived disability” rather than an actual one. But they didn’t succeed, and smoking is not covered under the law. There are 29 states that prohibit employers from discriminating against smokers — meaning that in those states, you can’t refuse to hire a smoker or fire someone for smoking, although some of those states have exceptions for nonprofits and the health care industry. But even in those states, you don’t need to give smokers extra breaks or extra long breaks, and you can fire smokers for exceeding their allowed breaks. Tell Deleana you’ll be continuing to hold her to the same break rules you hold everyone else to … and I would begin preparing to fire her, since if it’s not over this it’s almost certainly going to need to be over something else. (Although personally, I would be tempted to wait for that note, just for the entertainment value of watching someone try to get a doctor’s note requiring them to smoke.) You may also like:will smoking hurt my promotion chances?I desperately need breaks between my back-to-back meetingsis it unreasonable for me to not plan my staff's schedules around their dogs? { 493 comments }