coworker won’t answer any questions from my boss, “hey girl,” and more

by Alison Green on October 18, 2024

It’s four answers to four questions. Here we go…

1. My coworker won’t answer my boss’s questions

I work for a very small department within a bigger group. I have one coworker (Jane) and a boss (Amanda), and the boss also manages about eight others who are in a bigger department. My role is small and there is not much to do for one person, let alone two. Amanda is a poor manager, but not why I am writing in.

Amanda will frequently request meetings or ask other questions to me and Jane via Teams, but Jane only ever responds with a “thumbs up” reaction, even if the question requires a response. Amanda does not acknowledge a thumbs up as a response, which I truly think is because she doesn’t understand it rather than passive aggressively ignoring it. This leaves me to have to respond for us both, which I find frustrating. We don’t share an office, so it’s not easy for me to say, “Oh, Amanda just messaged us. Could you respond for us both” or something.

Similar things will happen when we have a meeting just us three, in that it basically turns into a conversation between me and Amanda with Jane just sitting there. We have had meetings where Jane literally did not say a word. Since then, I will wait to answer a question directed to us both so Jane will speak, but she never will. I have prompted her by saying, “Jane, what do you think?” and then she will say something, but it feels weird to do that every time.

Since I am not her supervisor I don’t feel like I can address this, but I hate it! It makes me feel like I’m working with a ghost. I believe it bothers Amanda too, based on some comments she has made, but she isn’t a good enough boss to address it. Is there anything I can do? Or is this just one of those things I should try to not let bother me?

Yes, this is ultimately on Amanda. But you could say to Jane, “When Amanda sends us questions, I’m usually the one who answers — could you jump in more often so it’s not always on me?” And from there, keep nudging her: when Amanda sends you both questions, if Jane isn’t responding, message her and say, “‘I’m swamped — could you reply to Amanda?”

Also, any chance Jane’s thumbs-up means “I see this and am acknowledging it, and will respond when I am able,” but because you’re jumping in she doesn’t get the chance? It would be interesting to simply wait a few of those times and see if she ever comes back to it. And if she doesn’t, then what happens? If it means no one responds, it might force Amanda to deal with the problem, whereas now she doesn’t need to because she’s getting what she needs from you. (Think of it this way: right now you’re volunteering to do Jane’s share of the work because you’re a conscientious person. That’s allowing Amanda to avoid stepping in. If you stop doing Jane’s share of the work, it’ll be harder for Amanda to avoid.)

You could also say to Amanda at some point, “I’ve noticed that I’m generally the only one answering your questions and I’d like to split the workload more evenly with Jane, so I’m going to hang back in the hopes she’ll take more of them.” And who knows, that might start an interesting conversation with Amanda about what’s going on, or at least nudge her to manage the situation more proactively.

2. “Hey girl”

I’m a mid-career professional and am a senior executive at a large global company where I run my own department.

Over the past couple of years I’ve noticed that other women within 10 years of my age (31) in either direction will address me — and each other — very informally via email. Things like, “Hey girl,” “Hi gal,” or even “Thanks girly,” etc. I find this deeply grating. It’s not an issue of gender identity (I’m a cisgender woman and present as such); it’s just annoying and somewhat infantilizing, especially because as a relatively young woman in a senior position, I’d rather not make myself appear younger than I already do.

I understand that this is a friendly signal and a way to create intimacy over email. I’m not a psychopath, I promise: I don’t think corporate communication needs to be dry or dusty. I just despise being addressed as “girl” or “gal” in this manner, especially by people I’m not actually friends with outside of work. I’d simply prefer to be addressed by my name.

I’m struggling to find the words to respectfully convey that I’m not receptive to this form of address without seeming like I’m the absolute worst. The last thing I want to do is come across like I’m policing other people’s language, and I certainly don’t want to destroy any friendly goodwill between my colleagues and I. If these were my subordinates, I’d simply state my preference and move on (and advise them not to address others outside of their name in writing at work, particularly in a gendered way). But because these are people across all levels, external and internal to our company, from other departments, I’m not sure what the best way forward is. Any advice on navigating this?

You could say, “I have a pet peeve about ‘girly’ — just Jane, please!”

But realistically, there will probably be clients or people who are senior to you where you’d be better off just rolling with it, especially if you say that once and it continues. You’ll have to judge it relationship by relationship.

3. My office mate comments on all my phone calls

I share an office with a colleague about whom I could write any number of cringe-inducing AAM letters, but I’ll try to focus on one issue at a time. Whenever I take a phone call, whether work-related or personal, she asks or comments about what I talked about, and it’s driving me insane. Because I’m pregnant, it’s not always feasible to take my calls elsewhere and, logistically, I have to continue sharing an office with her for the foreseeable future.

The content of the call does not matter to her. She always finds something to remark on, and I hate it. It could be a work call in which I let another team know about a mistake they need to correct, and she’ll comment on how they should have seen that already. Or I could call my husband to confirm that we’re meeting for our ultrasound appointment at 10, and she’ll want to know if he goes with me to all of my appointments. I think she’s just trying to establish some kind of rapport with me, but she’s doing the exact opposite.

I’m not on the phone much (a total of about five minutes a day, at most) or discussing anything highly personal or confidential, but I hate having to explain or expand on what I was just talking about to someone who is not (and shouldn’t be) involved. For now, I’ve been trying to give her brief non-answers and put my headphones back on as quickly as possible. But do you have a script I can use to ask her to stop?

“I know we’re sitting right near each other and can overhear things, but would you mind not commenting on my phone calls, and I’ll do the same for you? It’s easier to share space if we have some illusion of privacy, I think.”

4. Hurricane might be delaying interviews

I’m in an area that was mildly affected by Hurricanes Helene and Milton. Think high winds and flooding, but no reported deaths and minimal property damage.

I’ve recently applied to several jobs and while they’ve marked that I’ve been flagged for interview, obviously everyone is more concerned about returning to regular operations after the storm than prioritizing hiring. Is there anything I should do in this situation other than wait? If I’d already spoken to someone directly, I’d probably have sent an email wishing them well and confirming their timeline, but since I haven’t I don’t think I should (especially since flagged for interview might not mean that I’m definitely getting one).

Nah, leave it alone and assume they’ll contact you if they want to move forward at some point. I agree that if you’d already talked to someone, it would make sense to send a short email noting that you realize things might be delayed because of the hurricane but that you hope to talk whenever they’re ready to move forward. But since you haven’t had contact with anyone there yet, treat it like any other situation where you’ve applied and it’s in their court.

You may also like:
{ 405 comments }

{ 405 comments… read them below }

  1. Daria grace*

    #2 totally with you on that being grating. If someone started a message to me with some variation on hey girlie my instinctive response would be to assume they’re about to pitch me on an MLM or questionable diet plan. It has very leveraging fake rapport and over enthusiasm for self severing ends vibes.

    It also needlessly genders a particular subset of conversations. I doubt anyone of any gender is opening their emails “hey boy!”

    1. lyonite*

      I agree that it’s grating, but I also think it’s not the best hill to die on, particularly with high-level peers or outside clients. If you had a report that was doing this, absolutely shut it down and explain the reasons, but in this case I think it might just be a matter of local/organizational culture, and not worth fighting. (Certainly, I’ve never encountered this, despite working in a fairly casual environment with people in a range of ages.)

      1. Spencer Hastings*

        Yeah, definitely not a hill to die on, but definitely annoying.

        I even find it annoying when I get an email that starts with “hi ladies”. It’s not infantilizing like “girls”, but I do think it’s weird. Like, let’s say someone is sending a message to a particular team: if it were me, Alice, and Bob on the team, the salutation would be “hi all” or “hi team” or “hi Alice, Bob, and Spencer”…but if it’s me, Alice, and Claire, then it’s like a switch flips and there needs to be a special salutation for an all-female group? I don’t like it. But, again, it’s not something I would ever say anything about. Just…be the change you want to see, I guess.

        1. Missa Brevis*

          The only place I’ve ever seen anyone start an email like that is the Hey Ladies series on The Toast (RIP). This may explain some of why it sets my teeth on edge, actually.

        2. KateM*

          I feel the same about “ladies”! And I know that nowadays it means just “women” but not in my native language and I definitely don’t identify as a “lady” (more like a “working-class woman”).

          1. Radioactive Cyborg Llama*

            Funny, because I feel like “ladies” in the US is usually used in the opposite direction because it’s used with lower-“status” work that’s primarily done by women (cleaning ladies, lunch ladies). And when a man starts a sentence with “ladies,” it’s so often followed by something condescending or sexist.

            1. Mgguy*

              Perhaps it’s my Southern upbringing creeping in, but I think of “Lady” as referring to someone of somewhat higher social station…not that it’s necessarily an appropriate greeting in any situation, but that’s just the connotation I have.

              Thinking back too to the exchange in Gone With the Wind when Scarlett and Rhett first meet-“You sir are no gentleman.” “And you, miss, are no lady.” I realize that’s probably not the greatest reference either…

            2. Reindeer Hut Hostess*

              Okay wait a minute…I use “you ladies” these days to take the place of “you guys” when talking to all females, because “you guys” used to be pretty much unisex, but some people don’t like it anymore, which I totally get. But now, people are offended by “ladies”???? This is news to me. And now I have no idea what I’m supposed to say in place of “ladies.” Sometimes I’ll say “gals” but that feels a bit awkward. So seriously, what’s acceptable now?

              2. Bossy*

                You (everyone) can bet that someone will take offense with anything that comes out of your (our) mouth.

              5. Spencer Hastings*

                So, I actually come from an area of the US where “you guys” is a perfectly cromulent way to address an all-female group. But if you’re trying to avoid it, “everyone” is pretty good. “Y’all” and “folks” are not part of the vernacular here, so they tend to sound fake to me unles the person is a transplant and really does come by them honestly.

                What I was thinking of when I made the comment above was an email from a female manager to me and another new hire, back when I first joined the company. It went something like “Hi ladies, you’ve been set up on (Platform). Your usernames are the same as your (Other Platform) logins.” Like, it was clear that she was being nice and not condescending, but if it were me, I’d have started with “Hi, Spencer and Emily” instead of “ladies”.

              6. Happy*

                Why on earth does it feel so important for you to highlight the genders of the people whom you’re addressing?

          2. Jamjari*

            I don’t see “ladies” as equating to women, at least not where I’m from … besides, if some began starting emails or conversations with “hey women” that would be even more weird.

        3. Evergreen*

          A superintendent candidate in MA had a job offer rescinded after addressing an email to “ladies”. And it hit national news.

        4. Happy*

          I hate “hi ladies”, too! And it’s got weird class-related vibes in addition to being unnecessarily gendered.

          I once had a coworker tell me I was a lady, which was meant as a compliment but super weird to me in a work setting between two engineers. I laughed and said something like, “Oh, I’m no lady!” He continued to argue with me about it.

          (And “girls” would drive me up a wall.)

          1. Not Australian*

            I usually reply “I am not a lady. I am not any kind of a lady.” This confuses the *very* many people who are not familiar with ‘Man of La Mancha’…

            2. Reluctant Mezzo*

              Goes off humming “Shady Dame From Seville” (am feeling exceptionally frivolous today).

          2. Consonance*

            I had a colleague from IT (not my department) email me (director of my department) and a couple of my direct reports with “Hi Ladies,”. Really did not like that. I just replied “Hello Gentleman!” and he never did it again.

        5. word nerd*

          As someone who’s been trying to avoid my previous default of “guys”, I’m curious if would you dislike “hi guys” more than “hi ladies” when addressing a group of women? When I write emails to my all-female book club, I feel like “hi all” feels a bit sterile, so I often use “hi ladies” since I haven’t found an option I love.

          1. Happy*

            How about “hi everyone”?

            (fwiw, I much prefer “hi guys” to “hi ladies”, but that’s just me.)

          2. Hlao-roo*

            I like Happy’s suggestion of “hi everyone.” Other non-gendered options are:

            – “Good morning/afternoon/evening” (depending on the time of day you’re sending the email)
            – Just “Hi” or “Hello” followed by the message
            – If your book club has a name, “Hi [Book Club Name]” or “Hi [Book Club Name] members”

            1. word nerd*

              I think “good morning” works fine for the morning, but good afternoon/evening/day all sound stiff and formal to me. [Book club name] and [Book club name] members also seem a bit formal to me, but I could go with something like “[Book club name] peeps” (although they might think that sounds oddly young/informal considering we’re all middle-aged). I have the sense they don’t mind “ladies” since they often use it themselves to refer to our group, but I do like “hi everyone” better than “hi all”. I’ve also tried “hi folks” but it seems a bit, well, folksy to me.

              1. Bruce*

                I use “y’all” in my speech, but not in emails. It feels like an affectation to use it that way. But feel free, that is just my inner conflict! I’ll go “Hi Team”, or name one person and say “and team”. I can’t imagine going “Hi ladies” !

                2. skadhu*

                  Ha, I use y’all in emails but not speech. My partner is southern so I picked the expression up, and I deliberately use it or “hi all” when emailing any group of people, depending on context (y’all is for friends/people I know well). All the other options feel stilted and contrived to me. Interesting how different people have different ideas of what is comfortable.

                3. Emily of New Moon*

                  “Y’all” really only works in the southeastern United States. It might not go over so well in Boston or New York.

                4. Timothy (TRiG)*

                  Being Irish, I use ye rather than y’all (or youse, because I’m not from Dublin or the north). Weirdly, I find I use it far more often in writing than in speech, perhaps because in speech the plural is usually obvious from context.

              2. Orv*

                I’m a Yankee so I feel like that would be cultural appropriation, and/or might cause people to make incorrect assumptions about me.

                2. Selina Luna*

                  Huh. I’ve never considered it. I’m from the Four Corners region of the US, and I currently live in New Mexico. New Mexico is not part of the cultural “south.” However, most folks from here use “Y’all” as the second plural that English otherwise doesn’t have.
                  I don’t think that if you use it, you’re appropriating southern culture. You’re not profiting off of its use, and you’re not using it to make fun of Southerners or turn them into a joke.
                  That said, if you’re uncomfortable using some words, that’s completely fine, and you should feel free not to use those words.

                3. Festively Dressed Earl*

                  I understand what you mean about appropriation, although “y’all” isn’t only a Southern thing. In this case, though, you’re fine unless you give it weird emphasis.

          3. nonprofit director*

            I also despise “Hi ladies” and am trying to avoid “Hi guys”. I use various greetings, depending on who I am addressing. I might just start with “Hi!” or “Hi everyone” or sometimes even “Hi y’all”. I’m not in the SE US and I know y’all might have meanings of its own, but I like that it’s casual and non-gendered. I generally say y’all more than I write it and I have found that if I use the right tone of voice, it lands really well.

          4. weelittlemaggie*

            I don’t mind “hi all,” but some other options I use:
            * Hi team (for work contexts)
            * Hey folks
            * Hey everybody
            * Buenos dias!
            * Hi/hey friends!
            * Hey y’all (As a southerner who has lived in NYC for 18 years, I used to avoid “y’all” like the plague lest someone suspect I’m a yokel. But I’ve started noticing more non-Southerners using it, since it’s perfect for non-gendered plural use, and I also stopped giving AF about hiding my southerness.)

            1. word nerd*

              It’s funny, but I find “hi friends” way more grating than “hi ladies”, simply because so much children’s programming starts that way (teachers, librarians, etc.). A matter of taste I suppose after hearing it too much in that context.

              1. Hannah Lee*

                hi friends for some reason powers up my PBS ‘Zoom’ childhood brain, immediately converting it in my brain to HuBBye FruBBens, which just makes me laugh.

            2. carrot cake*

              Fine with anything as long as it’s not “Hi/hey gang,…”

              Makes me want to pull out my own teeth.

              2. Bear in the Sky*

                I had a teacher in high school who always greeted the class that way. But that was in person. There was no such thing as email back then.

            3. Bruce*

              I’m not a solid Southerner having moved around a lot, but much of my youth was in S.E. Virginia and I have maintained “y’all” as a usage since moving away 50 years ago… My sister still lives in Richmond, if someone asks her about her accent she’ll lay it on thick and reply “Accent? What accent?” :-) <3

            4. STG*

              I started using ‘hey folks’ myself when a woman joined my team instead of ‘hey guys’. It’s worked well AFAIK.

          5. I am Emily's failing memory*

            For me, using “Hello!” with the exclamation point comes across warm and cheery enough without needing to add an address. Something about the second syllable makes it seem more adequate than just, “Hi!” by itself – “Hi” feels like works out loud, but feels a little too, I don’t know, abrupt? in my writing. I sometimes struggle with being too laser-focused on an issue when by email and forgetting to include social pleasantries the way I would in person, so when I’m trying to guard against that, just two letters doesn’t feel like it creates enough of a pause to not feel like I’m “rushing the greeting” part of the email, but somehow “hello!” feels more as sufficient.

            1. word nerd*

              Oooooh, I think you’re right about this. “Hi” does seem too abrupt in a way that “Hello” doesn’t. Thank you!!

            2. I own one tenacious plant*

              If it’s internal communication or people I work closely with I often start emails with Hey, then right into the subject of the email. Very informal with an equally causal sign off of ‘thanks much’ or cheers. More formal or to a larger group I’ve defaulted to Hello of Hello All.

          6. JR17*

            Also trying to avoid “guys” (are you also from California?? It’s deeply ingrained in my speech, including for all-female groups.)

            1. JR17*

              Whoops, sorry, hit send too soon. Anyway, “Hi, Friends” often works for me, mostly in non-work situations. I think Everyone and All are fine – maybe a little sterile, but better than many alternatives. I’ve started using folks to move away from guys – felt awkward at first, but it’s fine. I also don’t think Ladies is awful in social situations, though it depends on your crowd of course.

            2. word nerd*

              Haha, yes I am from California. I also want to use “hi dude” or “hi dood” to female friends but trying to refrain. “Hi friends” feels too little-kid to me after hearing too many educators and librarians use it to refer to children.

            3. Jessastory*

              Californian with the same problem here! I’m trying to substitute “folks” for it, which works for my setting in education but I’m not sure if it’s a good alternative in an office setting

            4. Working Class Lady*

              I’m from Colorado and “Hi guys” regardless of gender is pretty deeply ingrained for me too.

              In a business setting with customers or clientele I use “Hi folks” (I now live in the Midwest). I trained myself to do that, in that context, because “folks” is gender-neutral.

          8. kristinyc*

            You could also have fun with and change it up to fit with whatever book you’re all currently reading/recently read:

            Hello, my dear Little Women!
            Hi all you witches and wizards!

            etc

          10. Workerbee*

            I just keep it singular with a simple Hello. Even though I’m writing to a group, it’s still each individual person who will be reading it.

          12. Student*

            “Hi folks,” is my default opener on emails to more than two people. Is it a little folksy? Yes. Is it more formal than “y’all”? I think so, especially since I’m not from the south, so it feels very unnatural for me to say that based on my background.

            I do rather like “y’all” and “all y’all” conceptually, but I can’t say them in a way that feels natural.

            I hold out hope that one day, “youse” will get its day to shine. It’s too niche right now, though. I’m pretty sure that if I started deploying it in business discussions, people would think I’d made a spelling mistake in my emails or was drunk during my talks.

        7. not nice, don't care*

          “Lady” is a judgement of the person being called lady. It references socioeconomic status (sometimes ironically) as well as perception of public presentation, i.e. gender conformity. Let’s just not.

        8. Kara*

          Is there any chance that it’s pushback or a response to the very common ‘hi guys’? While there’s been steps towards language becoming more inclusive, verbage defaulting to male is still common; particularly if the sender assumes that the group is all men. I’m in a male-dominated industry; I’ve gotten quite used to the sudden realization that there’s a woman in this particular group and the ensuing hasty ‘and lady’ (or similar).

        9. Throwaway Account*

          Any use of “ladies” is so incredibly annoying to me! It is so grating. Makes me feel it is the 1950s or that I have to be lady- like in the most annoying way.

      2. Allonge*

        Eh, may not be the hill to die on, but bringing it up in a matter-of-fact way would be well worth it to me – I doubt anyone who uses this expects just how annoyed I would be to receive such emails, especially in a professional context.

        Organisational cultures are a pain to change but they can change.

      3. duinath*

        Yeah, I don’t think I would love it, in a work setting. I will mention that OP said “especially because as a relatively young woman in a senior position, I’d rather not make myself appear younger than I already do” and by reacting too strongly I think she actually risks doing exactly that. I would let it go, and just make sure not to pick it up myself.

      4. Chirpy*

        Eh, I did once have a manager who called me “hey girlie” and it was pretty much entirely because I was the youngest- she didn’t call any of the other women that (but she did call her elementary school daughter “girlie”). And it was damaging, as I already had problems getting people there to take me seriously. So it’s not an unreasonable thing to try to stop.

      5. Cacofonix*

        It’s a hill to die on if you care at all about professionalism and equality in the work place. All these commenters saying well, men do it, using “guys” or “lads” or “boys” forget that men have the luxury of being casual about themselves. I can’t imagine in my wildest dreams calling a Black man a “boy” for instance. I don’t do it for any man but you see? I was 23 when I first took a manager 2 levels above me to task for calling me a girl. I was clear and firm. He was bewildered and defensive but he never did it again. It helps if you do good work, are not generally a complainer and the problems you raise are real. We already had a good relationship, and I received more respect, not less from this person. I’ve since learned to be much more diplomatic and gracious when correcting people along the way, from employees to C-suite to important clients. It has always been fine. Even when a more senior coworker who subsequently sneered saying the “Oops sorrrrrry! I mean laaaaydy” after I had talked to him privately got a short lecture in front of our team and told him it made him look foolish. One of his work friends said “yeah, quit being an idiot” and that was that. Four women came to me later and thanked me. Then our team gelled again.

        I wish women would quit being their own worst enemy. I’ve spent decades at work trying to stamp out sexist behaviour for me and other women in my little sphere. It has been mounds easier to exist as a professional woman in the last 10-15 years generally because of the efforts of so many amazing women. Then stuff like this comes up and people are.. eh, well… not worth it. Please respect yourselves at work. If you don’t, don’t expect others to.

        1. Bruce*

          It is important for men to call out other men on this BS, I’ve been seeing it happen in my work and I need to be quicker on the draw… sometimes I’m too taken aback but another guy who has heard it before from the same transgressor is ready to pounce!

          1. I own one tenacious plant*

            Ooo so important! I’ve started telling my younger male co-workers that if they see poor behaviour they are the ones who need to call it out. I’ve also started explicitly listing types of behaviours and situations that can make women feel unsafe at work because sometimes the behaviour doesn’t register as problematic to a guy but will be interpreted very differently by women.

        2. Retired Accountant*

          Meh. It’s a colloquialism. In my day it was “chick”. I hated it then and don’t enjoy “girlie” now but I don’t think it’s used out of lack of self-respect.

          I would limit it at work though, and certainly in written communication.

      6. Good luck babe!*

        I was watching a show set in Australia and their characters in formal presentations started with, “Ladies, gentlemen, and friends beyond the binary.” My preference is yall which I don’t think needs to be overthought, but if it feels weird in your mouth (eg you are not southern and adapt a drawl for the word), yeah, skip it.

    2. MK*

      I am pretty sure plenty of people (probably mostly men) are opening emails to younger men with “bro” or “dude”, and some of these men find it infantilizing and grating too.

        1. MK*

          Maybe, but I don’t think it’s useful to play the “this would never happen to a man” card in situations that it does’t apply. It weakens the argument when it does.

          1. Quinalla*

            There are definitely situations where folks will say gentlemen or guys, bro and dude probably happen sometimes, but less likely. The connotation is different as folks will use all of those (even gentlemen though they usually correct themselves when they realize there is one or more women in the room) to refer to mixed gender or just a woman at times. Terms that really are gendered for men become gender neutral in folks’ minds because men are such the default. Girls/Girly/Ladies are all much more jarring and used often as a way to say “Hey, it’s just us women here!” It feels very different.

            So yes, men might have a similar experience, but it isn’t the same.

            1. StressedButOkay*

              We’re a team of just women/folks who identify as women and when we went remote, we all got into the habit of – if we were addressing everyone in a chat – of saying “Hey ladies”. So while it never bothered me, I was still THRILLED when Teams introduced the @ everyone tag. Not only is it not at all gendered but it also actually does the official tag and ping.

          2. Radioactive Cyborg Llama*

            Except, it does apply here, because no one is starting emails with, “Hey, boy.”

            1. Hot Flash Gordon*

              For sure. Also, even though “bro,” “guys” and “dude” are ostensibly gendered as male, I’m noticing an interesting trend toward applying them to women and I’m kind of here for it.

              1. IdonotspeakZ*

                My 12 year old uses, “you good bro?” Regardless of gender and I find it fairly funny. I think it’s part of her ongoing campaign to teach me to speak Gen Z.

                1. word nerd*

                  It seems odd to me when I run across social media videos where two females are calling each other bro or a husband is calling his wife bro, but it’s definitely happening more. When I reflect on it, I guess it’s not actually that different from ungendered “dude,” which I’m more familiar with.

                2. nonprofit director*

                  This is so funny. I guess my husband was ahead of his time. When he was feeling silly, he called me “bro” or “dude” throughout our entire relationship- we were married in 1990.

              2. JustaTech*

                Back in the 90’s “dude” was often used as a semi-gender neutral term, especially when talking to a group of peers. Evidence: it was very common to hear someone say “hey dudes!” at my all-girls K-12 school.
                “Dudette” was not ever used (except maybe on the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles cartoon), partly because it felt forced, and partly because it’s so diminutive.

              3. Nobby Nobbs*

                I’m increasingly fond of the gender-neutral “asshole,” but I wouldn’t use it in a work email. (That’s a funny one, isn’t it? In theory it shouldn’t be gendered, since we’ve all got one, but in practice it skews masculine unless you’re making a point to avoid the b-word.)

                2. Lizzo*

                  @Overthinking it
                  Look up the history of white people calling black men “boy”. It is indeed very insulting.

      2. amoeba*

        I…. literally cannot imagine any work context where this would happen/be considered OK. (However, I also really cannot imagine “hey girl” either, so this might just be me!)

        1. MK*

          That was my point? Neither is appropriate, but both happen. I don’t think it’s something specific to women.

          1. Radioactive Cyborg Llama*

            I would 1000% prefer an email starting “hey dude,” than one starting “hey, girl.” They are not the same.

                1. Overthinking it*

                  “Familiar” is exactly the right word for this (better than “casual”)! But really, if you work with people regularly, and like them, is it so wrong to be familiar?

                  And if it is, how come we go around calling people by their first names?

                2. Hot Flash Gordon*

                  I suppose, but I worked with my last manager for over 20 years, so I’d find it pretty hilarious just because we knew each other pretty well.

        2. Great Frogs of Literature*

          In my 20’s, I had a few (female age-peer) coworkers who I was friendly with who might greet me verbally with “Hey, girl!” We were usually reasonably close for coworkers, and it was clearly a casual idiomatic greeting, and I didn’t mind it. I struggle to imagine it now (ten years later) and “girlie” verbally or in writing would get the cut direct.

    4. Corporate Goth*

      I’ve found being “obliviously wrapped in work” and therefore having “no idea” they were talking to me without using my name to be effective in cutting down the frequency in similar situations. Not responding helps.

      If they’re just bad with names, they could just offer a simple hello.

      1. ferrina*

        This is a good tactic.

        I’ve also used humor- if it’s in person, I look surprised and laugh and say “did you just call me girly?!” For most people, this will cause a moment of self-reflection, and they will never do it again. Of course, for people that tend to double-down, this won’t work, and your solution is perfect, Corporate Goth.

    5. Toast*

      I work at an engineering firm that is mostly men and I’ve noticed a lot of the guys will start calls with other guys by saying “hey man”. So I think there is an equivalent for men actually. Sometimes they forget I’m there and they’ll start a group call with “morning boys… and Toast…”

      1. Brioche for me*

        For a number of years I worked on a team of 7 men + me (a cis woman), and our (elderly) boss always referred to us as “the lads”. It wasn’t the hill to die on (this was a legit excellent team with a legit amazing boss), but oh man.

    6. Samwise*

      Hey bro

      But I do agree with you. I came up when Ms was a new term, I went to a women’s college (not a girls school, thankyouverymuch), and I’m over 18 so I am not a girl.

      1. Slow Gin Lizz*

        I went to a women’s college too and every student there was a woman no matter how old they were* (I was only 17 when I started) and wow, that was a weird transition for me, to suddenly just be a woman. I loved it, though, it just took a lot of getting used to.

        I wish there were a nice, informal second person name for a collective group of women equivalent to “guys.” I love to say “you guys” but always feel weird doing it when there are women in the group so now I say “all” or “y’all” in coed situations, but I wish we had a women’s version of “guy.” “Gal” somehow does not cut it at all. I wonder if some of what the people using “girl” are trying to do is use it in the same way people use “guy,” but of course they are not equivalent because a girl is a child and a guy is an adult.

        * Nowadays the school definitely has some NBs there too so not everyone is a woman. And I know a non-zero amount of NB or trans alums so have had to transition myself to using the collective “they” when referring to alums when I’d gotten so used to just calling everyone I’d gone to school with “she”; it’s not exactly the hardest of transitions (thinking of you, my trans friends, who have gone through a lot harder transitions) but it was a change of mindset nonetheless.

        1. Nightengale*

          I’ve started to refer to myself as having attended an “historically women’s college” because of the number of trans male and non-binary alums I know (and I am sure current students too but I don’t know any current students specifically.

        2. JustaTech*

          I went to a girl’s school (K-12, so actually girls) and I am watching with fascination for when they start using “alumns” to talk about the alumnae – mostly because everyone is required to take Latin in Middle School, so they want to use the correct declension, but at the same time they’re super duper feminist.
          Like, one of my friends transitioned and the school offered to re-issue his diploma in his new name. They’re also super open to NB students (does this mean they updated the uniform to pants year round!?).

        3. Lizzo*

          Re: your first point, I was a D3 athlete and it took me at least half of my college career to start referring to women’s and men’s sports instead of girls and boys. Still not sure why that was so challenging for my brain.

      2. Dancing Otter*

        YES!!!!
        If I am old enough to vote, I am not a child. Don’t call me one.
        And for pity’s sake, don’t undermine yourself and other women by using the term, even ironically.

    7. JP*

      Just about to say this. I get a message starting with “hey girl” then I’m bracing myself for a pitch on leggings or essential oils or something.

      It grates on me in general when people insist on using gendered greetings. I had a male coworker email me and another female coworker asking if we’d prefer “hey, ladies” or “hey, gals” when he emailed the two of us. It really rubbed the both of us the wrong way and we didn’t respond, so he eventually wrote back defensively saying he does it for the men, too “hey, fellas/gentlemen” or something. It just seems so unnecessary.

    8. Bella Ridley*

      Amusingly, in my line of work it’s very very common to refer to coworkers at your own level or subordinate as “the boys” or greet them with “Morning, boys” or “have a good night, boys!” or whatever.

      1. Slow Gin Lizz*

        This reminds me of my roommate in grad school, who was a woman and a math PhD candidate. All her math friends were males and she always referred to them as “the math boys.” It amused me very much.

    9. Hot Flash Gordon*

      I generally dislike gendered salutations or even “Hon” or “Sweetie” used in professional correspondence. Not only can it read sexist, but seems overly familiar to me. Like, “I didn’t realize we’re at the pet name stage.” It’s certainly not a hill I would die on and fortunately I don’t have to deal with it often (one of the perks of being on the upper edge of middle age).

    10. JMC*

      I’m not high level or anything but I really hate when anyone says anything about a girlie. We are not girlies. And women need to stop calling themselves girlies.

    11. VoPo*

      Agree. I have a coworker that addresses people as “girl” and “girly” constantly, and I find her pretty grating. Fortunately, she isn’t on my team, so I have minimal interactions with her and just let it go. If it was multiple people doing it, I’m not sure how I’d deal.

    12. learnedthehardway*

      I would find it similarly off-putting. Offensive, if it came from a man. Maddening, if it came from a woman.

      It might not be direct, but perhaps you can influence the language by finding gender-neutral ways to address people.

    13. Hannah Lee*

      Hey Girl would throw me off because it would fire up the OAR song

      “Hey Girl come with me and let yourself Goooo!”

      It’s too associated with bar scene pick up language “Heeey Girl, how ya doing?” And Hey Lady does the same.
      Hey Girlie should just not be sent in business correspondence unless it is a particular thing in that company’s culture. (And that would be a culture I’d have a really hard time norming to … though I’m guessing I likely would not be offered or accept a position in that company in the first place)

    14. Staja*

      Huge pet peeve of mine! My previous manager used to refer to our team of (middle age, professional) women as “the girls”, and it was nails on a chalkboard for me.

      However, I only mentioned this to the members of my team, until one of them outed me on a 360 review because she thought I was overreacting (probably). It did give me an opportunity to explain to my manager that I thought it minimized the worth of our department within the company and felt really infantilizing. It wasn’t something I wanted to use my capital on, but my manager tried to change when she found out.

    15. Quill*

      Yes, I also assume if someone addresses me as “girlie” I am about to be pitched an MLM.

      This is probably due to my approximate age and the existence of facebook though – most of the times people try it on me, they’re old classmates who swear the leggings / wellness product / candles basically sell themselves

    16. Emily of New Moon*

      “I doubt anyone of any gender is opening their emails “hey boy!””

      Probably not, but they might say “hey, dude” or “hey, man!”

    17. Hush42*

      I really think context matters here. I have a co-worker who I’ve worked with for 10 years and she opens Teams messages that way (never emails though) and I’ve worked with her long enough to know that she really is that peppy kind of person who genuinely talks like that.

    18. Overthinking it*

      OK, not “Hey, boy!” But males do get addressed and “Guy” and “Bro” and “Dude” none of which are particularly dignified or formal. It’s not sexist, just . . being casual! (Which everyone seems to think is the be-all and end-all these days.) “Girl” is not insulting, it’s just the language of the times. And good luck with changing that! I suggest changing your attitude instead (and that’s a serious suggestion, not just a snarky remark) not because they are RIGHT and you aren’t, but because you CAN control that, and it result in your being happier.

      (Sexist was when males referred to secretaries as “the Girl” or “my girl” like that was the only job a woman could have (and like only women could have that job.)

      Listen, there are some people that would be preferred to be addressed by title and last name, but that just ain’t gonna happen in the world we live/work in now.

    19. Hiding from My Boss*

      i would die on this hill, except that i am vastly outnumbered.

      i’m old enough to remember women in the workforce fought for the respect of not being addressed/referred to as “the girl” esp. for office workers, “girl” was a synonym for “secretary” or “admin.”

      now women managers are doing this to lower-ranking female staff as well as addressing them as “honey” or “chickie,” etc. . my dr. and dentist refer to their front-desk staff as “girls.”

      nothing i can do about it but it feels like a giant step back. however, in my workplace any woman who addresses me that way earns my instant disrespect.

    20. French Frog*

      Someone please tell me what is the acceptable manner to address a group of women in an email in 2024? I’m a new manager, female, in the Midwest and English is my second language. I use “Hi Team” a lot, feel weird using “y’all”, won’t use “Hi Guys”, and am at a loss on what else I could use when addressing a group of women.

      1. Eff Walsingham*

        I am in Canada, and just use “Hello, all.” or “Good morning, everyone.” Or just the greeting by itself. Often with business email I don’t know the gender of all the people I’m expected to communicate with, nor is it relevant. As someone else pointed out upthread, each recipient is reading the message by themselves, so it’s fine not to use a plural noun. I find it difficult to imagine anyone feeling offended or excluded by a simple hello by itself, so I prefer to keep it simple.

  2. Missa Brevis*

    Pragmatically I can see that Alison’s advice to OP2 is sensible, that there are going to be times where it’s not worth the political capital to try to change something like this.

    That said, someone in a work context calling me ‘girly’ like that would be full flames on the side of my face intolerable to me. It singes my eyelashes just to think about it. I’ve also never seen anyone, even at my fairly casual employer, use that kind of address. Is this a regional or industry-specific thing I’ve just been fortunate enough to miss?

    1. SemiAnon*

      I was also wondering about that – it would be so extremely unusual in the environments I work in that I’d be as shocked as if someone randomly told me to f-off, and I would be offended enough to address it with someone senior to me.

      FWIW, I work in a very male dominated STEM field.

      1. amoeba*

        Yeah, I mean, I wouldn’t even be particularly offended, I’d just find it *so weird*, like WTF is happening, what is this person thinking?

        1. TechWorker*

          Lol same. It would be considered waaaay too informal for email. I do use ‘hi folks’ for more informal emails, or ‘hi team’, depending on who it’s to, but ‘hi girly’ (or ‘hey man’ or any of the other alternatives suggested above) would be like ‘er, what?’

      2. Selina Luna*

        Humorously, I would be WAY more confused by “hey girl,” “hello gals,” or “hi girly” than by someone randomly telling me to f-off. I work in a high school. I hear f-off (not usually directed at me, but sometimes) daily.

      3. Overthinking it*

        “FWIW, I work in a very male dominated STEM field.” And that’s probably why you don’t hear it. This seems to be a “we’re-all-girls-here-and-can-let-our-hair-down” environment.

        I was addressed as “Girl” by a man sometimes when I was in my 20s, and it WAS paternalistic, but the man WAS old enough to be my father, and he wasn’t my boss, so . . it didn’t worry me. It came across mostly as down-home and casual, as I’m sure he intended it. If a man my own age had said it, I would have just called him “Boy” in return. And laughed.

      4. Sillysaurus*

        My workplace is about 95% women, and I would be very jarred by “hey girl” as well! So unprofessional.

    2. Not Girlie*

      The out of state owner of the business I worked at (until recently) showed up unannounced. I had never met him. He repeatedly said to me “Come here, girly”, and not in an ‘I’m a delightful gay man’ kind of way, but rather in a ‘Women are not my equal and they exist to serve me’ kind of way. It was so revolting to me I had to say something after the third time. I said “I’m not a girl, I’m a woman. Please don’t call me ‘girlie’, just call me by my name, it’s X”. After him calling me girl or girlie several more times that day, with me being extra slow to come over to him, and every time calmly repeating “Please just call
      me by my name, it’s X”, he did finally start using my name. So even a 75 y/o misogynist asshole can be trained. Not that I lasted there long for all the other ways he was a jerk.

      3. Overthinking it*

        I still think it would have been more effective to respond “Sure thing, Sonny!” (Especially if you had already corrected him once.) At the very least, you would have found out if he had a sense of humor!

    3. Nodramalama*

      It’s probably to do with current slang online. It’s very common to hear “I’m not an xyz girlie” or “I’m a Sabrina carpenter girlie”

      1. Audrey Puffins*

        It shouldn’t come to the workplace though. Just because I’m a Swiftie and a 1989 girlie doesn’t mean I am not also a grown-ass adult woman who will vocally remind her colleagues of this fact where necessary (obviously know thy workplace; in previous more formal workplaces I would have gone with a smile and an “ooh! No, just Audrey, thank you”)

      2. Nicosloanica*

        Yeah I think these phrases are more coming from people who are either Very Online or just into younger culture. I also think the newer generations are more casual because of online communications. I agree with OP’s assessment to bear in mind that these are ways of trying to build rapport and the signal is supposed to be friendly. It’s true that a very cold response about how grating and infuriating you find this is going to be the wrong move if you like this person.

        1. used to be a tester*

          Yep, mom of a teenager here – I started referring to myself as a such-and-so girlie because my kid’s eyerolls give me life, but sadly now I occasionally use it around co-workers and other adults. I do make a conscious effort to never call anyone else girlie though.

          1. Elle*

            I don’t love the hey girly/girlypop trend, but I think it’s extremely funny to use it a bit ironically? My team (but not entire company) leaves a lot of room for surprisingly absurdist humor, so while I’ve been able to control my desire to introduce a (male) colleague as “our number one git girly,” I have 100% referred to a different (male) colleague as a self care queen for taking a (deserved) day off.

    4. Madame Arcati*

      If I read “hey girl” I would expect to be reading an internet listicle of instances when people have tried to get others on board with MLMs.
      I don’t think it’s appropriate at work – and my work is not stuffy and frankly sometimes a little less politically correct than it should be, even though it’s not quite Life On Mars as it perhaps used to be. But even so, I once had a few people I was working with (older men) shocked that my manager referred to me and another colleague as “the girls” because they thought that was wrong. Twenty three years ago.
      And in the last year I politely suggested to a female colleague that she not get into the habit of calling her all-female team “the girls”. It’s just not on, in my world.
      If I were OP2 I’d be responding with, can we not use “girl” and “girlies” in a work context please? It’s a bit infantilising and sets a bad example to colleagues – it doesn’t help women in the workplace be taken seriously.
      Even when it’s women doing it – it tells men it’s ok, and younger women that they should expect to put up with it – and as many know women still have challenges in work and society, let’s not do our own legs!

      1. JustaTech*

        I just realized that my team is now all women, but none of us ever address the group as “ladies”, let alone “girlies”.

        The one I push back hardest on is “females”. When we set up our Women’s Employee Resource Group one of the suggested names used “Females” and I wanted to scream. It’s so dehumanizing! Yes, in the life sciences we talk about “females” – but they’re animals, not people. Occasionally you might talk about a group of study subjects like “the females had a 46% response rate while the males had a 23% response rate”, but you would never say that *to* a study subject.

        There is a word for adult female humans – women.

        1. porridge fan*

          I’m with you on “female” being demeaning. It’s an adjective, not a noun.

          I don’t mind “female participant” if her gender is actually relevant (if not, leave it out), but “female” as a standalone noun makes me want to throw things.

    5. Keep it Simple*

      “Girly/Girlies” is what my friends call their dogs. I would do full-press pushback on that if I was addressed that way in an email. Work is not Barbie-Land.

    6. Person from the Resume*

      I think it might be a hill to die. At least with people equal or lower-level than me.

      “Can you please not use: girl, girlie, gal in our work communication. I’d like to keep it professional.”

      OTOH I am 50 years old and my friends generally don’t use these terms either without very obvious humorous intent. It’s shocking. “Girlie” is particularly awful.

    7. ferrina*

      Yeah, I would die on this hill.

      Part of my issue is that I look younger than I am, and there have been so. many. times. when someone tries to explain some concept to me that I know better than they do. Or they expect me to take a backseat so I can “learn” how to do something that I’ve led several times. Thankfully most of my current colleagues aren’t like this, but there’s still a few where I have to wear styles that make me look older and respond to cultural references that actually predate me just so they quit thinking of me as “young and inexperienced” (I am neither of those). If someone called me “girlie”, that would undo my credibility with these annoying colleagues so fast. I would be livid.

    9. fish*

      I have a coworker who calls other female colleagues “mamacita” but even through a Zoom screen my laser glare let her know that this WOULD NOT HAPPEN with me. And she didn’t.

    10. 2 Cents*

      Ugh, this is popular around me — if not in work settings, then definitely in more casual settings (like PTA or get togethers where I don’t know everyone much at all). I think it’s like when it was really popular for young women (like college) to call each other b*&^h as a term of endearment. Also highly grating.

    11. Meep*

      It has gotten more popular due to TikTok and the revival of MLMs. There are whole channels dedicated to mocking the “Hey, girlfriend! I am reaching out to talk to you a great opportunity!” intro that MLM huns do. My guess is the people using it have it normalized from that.

    12. Elle*

      I’m in Southern California and initially only got “Hey girly!” in the context of assorted aesthetics appointments (lashes, hair, skin care). I was okay with it in that context because it was so limited. It mildly rankled because 1) Not a girl 2) I don’t know you.

      I’m in biotech, so this would be very odd to use generally at my company. I’m starting to see it being used by younger (20s) women on my team, but they seem to be pretty judicious in its use and pretty much keep it within our team/women they know well. So I’m not going to be grumpy mr manager about it.

      I don’t see any reason to bring gender into things unless I have a really good reason; I’m a big fan of “hi team,” “good morning folks,” “greetings mortals,” “please come to order, party people”

      1. JustaTech*

        So, as another woman in biotech, do you think that “girlie” lands even more oddly because biotech tends to have more women than other STEM fields (but of course not in the uppermost levels, sigh)?
        Like, in all my time in biotech the gender distribution of people in my immediate vicinity (peers or one-two steps up) has tended to be either pretty even or slightly more women. Where at my husband’s computer tech companies it’s been skewed strongly towards men.

  3. TheBunny*

    OP5

    I actually had interviews scheduled for 9-11-2001…that didn’t happen for obvious reasons, even though I’m not in NYC.

    After a few days things came back to normal and meetings for that day were rescheduled, even though they weren’t *technically* ever canceled.

    People, understandably, get a little discombobulated when big things happen to them, I’d chalk it up to this.

    1. OP5*

      Thank you for the confirmation! This isn’t my first hurricane season, I was here for Irma, but I’ve never been job searching like this before. And since my current job includes emergency response duties, I’m not even sure when different businesses were closed.

      1. Wondercootie*

        Another thing to keep in mind is that even if your area wasn’t directly impacted by the storms, the people involved in hiring may have been, or may be helping family who was. Saying that as someone who just spent a week helping my mom clean out her house in Tampa after Milton flooded it.

      2. Festively Dressed Earl*

        Fellow Floridian speaking from recent experience – if it’s been a few weeks you should send a follow up email explaining that you wanted to check in but understand everyone’s lives have been disrupted right now. Because of the power/phone outages, managers may not know whether you can be contacted.

        I volunteered to help with a llama grooming project a couple of days before Milton hit. Got an email from the project manager wanting to set up a Zoom meeting with the llama managers. I emailed back with my availability and contact info, with the llama managers CCd, got OOO messages from all parties. We were lucky and didn’t lose power or have property damage, but a lot of our friends and family are still without power or internet. I kept an eye on my inbox but figured the llama group was in recovery mode – until I got an ALL CAPS SUBJECT LINE SECOND REQUEST from the project manager about my availability to meet. My original reply got buried, she’d missed it and apologized. I can understand, since my cell is still acting wonky and delaying messages after a week. An email can’t hurt and might help.

    2. Merry and Bright*

      I’ve also seen the same delays going on in other areas of the US. Some companies might also be waiting until after the election to move forward with interviews and hiring until they have a sense of how the new president may affect the economy.

  4. Marshmallow*

    Growing up, my mom always was a stickler about not calling women “girls”. “They’re not girls, they’re women”. She was born in the 40’s and worked in technical roles in her early years so I’m guessing she had some experiences she didn’t share with her young children. I definitely didn’t understand it as a child and teen, but once I got past maybe 25, I found myself also not wanting to be referred to as “girl”. I’m 40 now and that hasn’t changed. I think it’s interesting that you’re seeing that so much in your professional relationships. I absolutely believe it’s happening, but I’m surprised it’s younger people for you. Where I work, typically, the only hold-overs that use the term girl or girls for the women they work with are the ones nearing retirement. I’ve been fortunate it hasn’t been super widespread. Don’t get wrong… I work in a technical job, there’s still pretty rampant sexism. But that one seemed like it was phasing out.

    1. Daria grace*

      Some people talk like that on social media so guessing they’re not realising they shouldn’t bring it into the workplace

    2. Beth**

      I went to an all-women’s college in the 1990s and there was a strong cultural norm that all the students there were “women” not “girls”. So to this day I find it weird to refer to females above high school age as “girls”.

      In my current work environments, I can’t imagine it, but I would definitely raise an eyebrow.

      That said, for the OP, if this is common parlance at your employer at various levels etc., it’s going to be extremely difficult to shift that culture, particularly on your own.

      1. Missa Brevis*

        I went to a women’s college in the mid-2010s and that was definitely still present in the culture. I can, in fact, still mimic the exact intonation of “this is a women’s college not a girls’ school” that my first year RA used.

        1. UncleFrank*

          Just joining the women’s college chorus — late aughts here :) And yes, we were women not girls.

      2. Nonanon*

        My all-girl’s high school had several admin/teachers with something similar: we were LADIES, not GIRLS. It wasn’t a standardized/mandated thing (Ms. Snooter would say “girls, settle down;” Mrs. Wakeen would say “ladies, pay attention”) but it was a thing, presumably because of reasons mentioned throughout.

      3. Slow Gin Lizz*

        Same. And I will almost always correct someone when they refer to an adult female as a girl. There are definitely situations where it feels out of place to interrupt someone to correct them as such, but in general I do my best to remind those who don’t realize that adult females are not girls that they are, in fact, not girls.

    3. Snow Angels in the Zen Garden*

      I have a similar sentiment. I’m not a girl, and I haven’t been for a long time. Luckily, there is only one person in my life who greets me by, “HEY, girl!”
      A different one that boggles me is the managers at my last library job normally called me as “Miss Snow Angels” when they were talking directly to me. This wasn’t done consistently with anyone else that I recall. I know of some teachers, especially a relative who taught preschool, who were referred to as “Miss FirstName” regardless of relationship status, but I never quite knew why I was addressed that way in my library. I’ve assumed it as a quirk of those managers and the area they both grew up in.

      1. Former Librarian of SHIELD*

        That’s very much a library thing. It’s super common for library staff who work with kids to be Mr. Or Ms. Firstname, and so some library staff get in the habit of using that name convention for most staff members. I was “Ms. Peggy” to customers and my management team at just about every library I worked in.

      2. Selina Luna*

        My son’s preschool does that, sort of. All teachers are called “Mr. Teacher” or “Ms. Teacher,” but the pronunciation is miss, not mizz. And that’s also the culture at my high school. Ms. (though pronounced mizz at this level), not Miss or Mrs. I don’t know what the rest of society is doing, but it’s pretty rare for me to hear Mrs. anything anymore (though no one has ever called me Mrs. since I didn’t change my name when I got married).

        1. Gina*

          Preschool teacher here! We do that, too. Written, my name is Ms. Gina. Everyone pronounces it Miss. When I was married, it was written as Mrs. Gina, but still pronounced Miss. It’s actually really common in early childhood education! At least here in my area anyway (western Michigan).

    4. Retired Accountant*

      In my generation it was “chicks”, which I found equally grating. But I think they are both just words, divorced from their original meaning and used to mean “member of my (even if loose and temporary) pack”. Or how the OP put it, as a friendly signal.

      It seems analogous to the discussion here about the use of “mama” in certain subgroups. Like or hate it, but it’s not being used to refer to anyone literally as a mama.

      Also similar to the way many people use sir or ma’am. (Commonly seen on this site: It’s so WEIRD how Americans use sir or ma’am all the time.). In many or even most contexts it’s just a filler word like Australians use mate. Not, “I bow and scrape before you, my liege.”

      1. PhyllisB*

        When my son was a teenager he would call young women “chicks” and I would scold him every time. He and his friends referred to each other as “dawg.” I didn’t say anything about that because I figured that was between them, but disrespectful address for young women? Not on my watch.

    5. JustKnope*

      I think there’s an element of younger women doing this who aren’t as deeply familiar with the struggles of the past. They are disconnected from those battles so it seems fine to call other women by these cutesy nicknames.

      1. overcomposer*

        Idk, their perspective could also be something more like, “we made it in the workplace, we did it, it’s just us girls here in this conversation so we don’t have to perform for men.”

        My most recent workplace was predominantly women and I noticed threads of that attitude — almost triumphantly female.

        1. JustKnope*

          Oh that’s definitely interesting! I haven’t worked in a mostly female space before so hadn’t experienced that.

        2. anon24*

          I work with a good amount of very competent, professional women, most of us who are self proclaimed feminists and it’s very common for those of us who are under 35 and have a good working relationship together to say “hey girlie” when starting a conversation. Can’t say it would happen over email though. But I do think there is some truth to what you are saying, we are professionals who are seen as competent by most other men and the ones that are sexist assholes we stare down our noses at, and we are going to have our own way of talking to each other and create our own little spaces and culture that the “boys” can’t relate to.

          Sometimes I wonder if calling ourselves girls is our way of feeling young and relevant in a world that treats older woman like they’re invisible, other times I wonder if it’s just a giant fuck you to those who want to minimize girls, like hey I can be a “girl” and still be damned good at my job, so screw you, and then most days I think that for me it’s just because I still don’t feel at all prepared for this life or like I have any clue what I’m doing so I don’t think “woman” is a great descriptor for me.

          1. Punkzilla*

            Yeah, me and my coworkers who are women, will sometimes refer to each other with “hey girlies” or “hey ladies.” I would put it in an email invite for a group coffee run, but I wouldn’t use it in a more professional context.

        3. Crepe Myrtle*

          Yeah, this is how I’ve had it used in my women-dominated profession (libraries). But in not being out as a trans person, it makes me extremely uncomfortable. But I used to say “ladies” too, before I had some big realizations about gender. lol

      2. Nodramalama*

        I think this is unfair. Language evolves and culture evolves and just because people don’t share the same perspective on language as previous generations doesn’t mean they don’t care about the struggles of women.

        1. JustKnope*

          I’m not saying they don’t care about women’s struggles! Just that they don’t have the same motivation to only refer to “women” vs “girls” in the workplace. They just don’t see this particular distinction as an important thing to worry about.

    7. T.N.H*

      I’m 35 and I use girl to refer to myself all the time. I far prefer it to woman which sounds stuffy. Calling myself what I like and resonates with me is not setting women back. It’s allowing us to make our own individual choices.

      1. In My Underdark Era*

        same. I may have some gender feelings about it (stealth agender) but I really prefer referring to myself as a girl because woman sounds so formal. When someone calls me a woman I feel like they’re putting my gender front and center in a way that’s just a little more deliberate than with girl.

        I get the dichotomy of usage is generally boy/girl, man/woman, and guy/gal, but let’s be real, those feminine words do NOT have the same vibes as their counterparts. almost no one uses “gal” but “guy” is super common (to the point of being almost genderless). “man” is used a lot more casually than “woman” is, you can call someone “man” without making the conversation About Gender but if you call someone “woman” it’s a deliberate centering of her gender. I would argue that the colloquial adult usage of “girl” is just filling a void for a casual feminine term that operates the same way as “guy”, because “gal” does not.

        obviously I wouldn’t want to refer to someone in a way that makes people uncomfortable. I usually wait to see how people self-identify before referring to them with any gendered terms anyways. but I don’t like the idea that once you hit a certain age you have to identify with a certain word no matter what and if you don’t it’s bad for feminism. I don’t think that’s as respectful as it’s supposed to be!

    8. jinni*

      Whenever anyone asks if it’s true I went to a girls school, I pause and frown and say no I went to a coed high school…

      Returning awkward to sender.

        1. Categorical*

          Was probably a question about college, responding with high school meant to show age of term “girl”, but I think “I went to a co-ed elementary school” would be more clear about the age distinction.

          1. Categorical*

            i.e. “Did you go to a girl’s school?”
            “Why, no, when I was in elementary school it was co-ed. I was fortunate enough to attend Z women’s college and malformed in Z.”

      2. Bella Ridley*

        Why is that awkward? You’re literally answering the question and just making the asker feel like you don’t understand what that means.

  5. zenlynx*

    OP1, you said “Amanda is a poor manager, but not why I am writing in.” I think that actually is exactly why you’re writing in. This situation would likely not last under a skilled manager.

    1. EStein*

      Totally agree, and it’s worth OP1 reflecting on this. I’m in a similar situation, and my manager does the same thing. We tried to address it, but HR didn’t allow my boss to fire the coworker at the end of her PIP, so he gave up. It’s just easier for them to ignore the lack of contribution.

    2. 2 Cents*

      OP #1, when you have an in-person meeting, I’d have laryngitis that day, so Jane is forced to respond. And I’m not sure how fast you’re responding on messaging, but you could also respond with a thumbs up and leave the actual typing to your counterpart. This has to be frustrating for you, but you are also not making Jane uncomfortable enough to make her step up (or not). Which, I get, I am also very conscientious about this stuff.

    3. fhqwhgads*

      True, but I took that to mean more LW isn’t trying to solve all the things caused by the bad management, nor the bad management itself. She just wants advice on the one issue about the disproportion of responding.

  6. agender ace*

    Would the response for #2 be the sane if the OP wasn’t cis? I’m female presenting but not super feminine, and not out as nonbinary for safety reasons, and cringing so hard at the response, sigh.

    1. Anima*

      I think it probably wouldn’t be, but the letter writer explicitly stated she is cis, so the answer applies to her. And that is what this blog entails – answers to specific questions.

    2. Mid*

      I’m non-binary, and relatively out at work (I say relatively because I’m rarely in the office and this isn’t the type of office where people have pronouns in their email signatures or really talk about personal stuff, so it doesn’t come up often, but it’s not a secret either.)

      I, personally, ignore most misgendering of me in the workplace. I rarely actually talk to my coworkers, most of them are far older and some are very conservative, and it’s not worth the energy to me to correct them. This is my personal choice, and I’m not saying it’s the best way to handle it. I just….don’t care that much what a bunch of near strangers call me. I’m at work to get work done. If someone asks me, I’ll let them know my pronouns, but most people don’t ask, and I don’t feel like bringing it up.

      That said, I would respond differently if I felt someone was intentionally misgendering me. (And IYKYK, when you’re trans, you can tell the difference.) Then it would be a conversation, and if it continued, it would go to my manager and HR.

      I think if you aren’t out and don’t want to come out at work, Alison’s advice would be the same—choose if you want to spend your energy and capital on this or not. If you think it’s malicious misgendering, then you escalate, and there are several letters here that discuss dead-naming and misgendering people and how to handle that.

    3. amoeba*

      I mean, if they were non-binary and out at work, I’d think that would definitely change things, because it would change from “annoying habit” to “actually purposely misgendering them”!

    4. ecnaseener*

      I mean, yeah, it probably would be the same response — here’s a script if you want to speak up about it, and here’s an acknowledgment that you might decide it’s not worth the trouble of speaking up about it, up to you. Both pieces of the response would be appropriate for a non-cis LW.

    5. iglwif*

      I am 99% sure that had OP2 not explicitly said she is a cis woman, the response would’ve been different. Because if this was happening to you, it would be a different situation.

      Now I am obviously just one person, but here’s how I see the difference: I, a middle-aged not-very-girly cis woman, would be annoyed if people at work addressed me as “girlie,” but I would likely just ask them to please not, and if they continued, roll my eyes and be snarky about them in my head. I don’t think I would feel the same way about someone calling my AFAB-and-agender BFF “girlie” at work. I think I would consider that significantly worse, and significantly more worth spending social capital on doing something about.

      1. agender ace*

        To me, I think it shows a lot about people how they talk about others who are different than them (or assumed to not be different) when they’re not in the room.

        1. iglwif*

          I agree, it does. That’s one of the reasons it’s so important for cis people to call out other cis people on on their transphobic stuff.

          I also think in this case, Alison answered the question she got, which is about what these people say directly to a cis woman.

  7. Spencer Hastings*

    What’s the relative seniority between LW1 and Jane, I wonder? If I’m on a team of two people and we’re meeting with a boss, then if the other person is more senior, I’d usually expect them to take the lead on answering the boss’s questions, and vice versa if I’m the more senior person. Even if they’re peers and Jane *believes* the LW is more senior, that could explain this.

    1. Expectations*

      Really? That’s so interesting. I’ve never worked in an environment where this would have been acceptable, let alone expected. Everyone is expected to participate. If the person asking just wanted a report from a project lead, they’d ask the project lead. If they asked the team or a subset of the team it’s because they want to hear the perspectives/opinions of the whole group.

      Many people don’t like speaking up for all sorts of reasons, but it’s part of working life. One of the key tasks of a project lead or project manager or manager is usually to draw folks who don’t want to talk into participating anyway.

      I don’t know of anyone put on a PIP for this, but I do know it’s been a major topic at performance reviews for people who just do not engage no matter what you do to encourage or demand it.

      1. Spencer Hastings*

        I work for an accounting firm, so I guess I wouldn’t be surprised if my workplace is more hierarchical than average. But yeah, I have been to a lot of meetings where I was primarily there to listen, and maybe to report on a particular, very circumscribed thing.

        1. Cj*

          I also work at an accounting firm, and people are expected to participate, whether it is answering questions or asking questions.

      1. Katydid*

        OP1, have you ever asked Jane why she is silent during the meetings? Not in a frustrated way, but asking to find out if something is holding her back from speaking up. (I’m wondering if there’s a reason Alison didn’t suggest this.)

    3. ecnaseener*

      Taking the lead a little bit maybe, but it sounds like Jane is sitting there in total silence for entire meetings – that’s not within the bounds of what you’d expect.

    4. rebelwithmouseyhair*

      Surely it would be dependent on context? If the question is, can someone print up the last TPS report, the person at the bottom of the hierarchy should respond with “I’ll get that done this afternoon”. If it’s something more strategic, then the boss should be given an opportunity to answer.
      But it sounds to me like OP and Jane are at the same level, doing more or less the same work.

  8. eeeek*

    #3 – I have said the quiet expectation/boundary layout out loud to the person on the phone: “I am not talking with you from a private place, so it may be best if you take the bulk of this conversation by asking me yes/no questions, and do not require me to disclose personal/private information from my end of the line. I do not feel SAFE in this place, conversing with you, if you need me to speak confidentially.” This works well if the person calling understands and can collaborate, of course. But the real point of the message is to convey to the eavesdropper that you are NOT consenting to sharing information. Y/N responses to a provider or scheduler can be a bit tedious, but in my experience, making this statement and providing those answers while staring at the unwelcome participant in the conversation (particularly if they are logging your conversation and will quiz you after) can be quite effective.

    1. OP #3*

      This is an interesting idea, thank you. I would have to find a shorter version, but I might give it a shot if she doesn’t respond to Alison’s suggested script.

      1. Bella Ridley*

        This script is going to seem wildly out of place to whoever you’re talking to on the phone and will likely totally burn any bridge you have with your coworker. So, you know, something to keep in mind, because that suggestion is totally unhinged.

      2. porridge fan*

        I would just respond to coworker’s questions by saying “oh, that’s private, I’m sure you understand” and change the subject or go back to what you were working on before the call.

    2. Still*

      Why be passive-aggressive instead of talking to the colleague directly like Alison suggests? She clearly just wants to chat and hasn’t picked up on the fact that it’s not welcome.

      It would also come off as very weird and over-the-top to the person on the other end, at least for most daily conversations which don’t usually contain much sensitive data.

      1. Emily of New Moon*

        Agreed. I’m neurodivergent and might not pick up on the hint; but even neurotypicals don’t always like it when someone is passive-aggressive.

    3. Bonkers*

      That sounds very aggressive and adversarial for a situation in which the LW hasn’t yet tried just speaking to her coworker and asking her to stop.

      1. whimbrel*

        Yeah that is a weirdly hostile response to a frustrating but not dangerous or threatening situation.

        Also, if the eavesdropping behaviour were the result of a situation that was either dangerous or threatening for LW, calling out the other person for it that way would probably not be a safe way for them to proceed.

        1. Cj*

          your reply kind of hit on a pet peeve of mine when you said it’s not a threatening or dangerous situation. I imagine the original comment meant safe as in not safe to have a confidential conversation, but the word safe seems to be really overused recently.

          1. whimbrel*

            Yeah I don’t think I phrased that well, I was trying to express that LW was not sharing a space with someone who posed a threat to them personally, either physically or otherwise, so saying they were ‘not safe to talk’ would be drastically overstating the situation.

            1. Cj*

              I think you phrased your comment just fine. I was just saying that in general I think safe is used in situations where it doesn’t really apply.

        2. ferrina*

          Yeah, I’ve been around some dangerous people, and calling them dangerous to their face is usually not the safest way to proceed.

          And nothing in LW’s post makes it seem like this coworker is dangerous. It sounds like this coworker just socially awkward and trying to bond over what the coworker sees as a not-private conversation. Direct communication is the way to go.

      2. Cj*

        you’re absolutely right that is way too aggressive when she hasn’t even spoken to the coworker yet.

        besides that, it won’t work for the example that the op gave about calls being about giving someone information about work that needs to be corrected.

        it also doesn’t really matter whether or not the co-worker is commenting on the conversations if the letter writer is talking about confidential things on the phone. the coworker is going to hear it whether they comment on or not.

      3. amoeba*

        It would also be pretty weird for the other person on the phone in both examples OP has given – like, definitely weird when you’re talking to a colleague about a work issue, or scheduling a routine appointment at your doctor’s office! (Also, how is that supposed to work? I mean, you do have to tell them you’re calling to schedule an appointment, how are you going to do that with “yes” and “no”? Make them do a little guessing game?)

        She also specifically says she’s actually *not* discussing anything very personal or confidential, so I assume it would be weird most of the time.

        Like, imagine you have a call with your colleague about a report or whatever and they start the conversation with “I cannot talk freely here, I don’t feel safe – I can only do yes and no”! Lol.

    4. Another freelancer*

      If I called my sister at work and she used this script I would absolutely worry and assume the worst. This is overkill for someone whose colleague is just commenting on their phone calls.

    7. ecnaseener*

      It’s also overkill given the reality that LW is taking these phone calls in a shared office knowing the coworker is there. This pointed “SOMEONE’S eavesdropping” thing would be unfair and confusing to the coworker — the message seems to be that she should leave to give LW privacy, but she can’t, she’s working at her desk.

      2. Saturday*

        Yeah, the coworker is making a reasonable assumption that LW isn’t talking about anything really confidential because the coworker can’t help but hear half of the conversation. Where the coworker is going wrong is that she’s assuming that this means she’s free to jump in and comment on the calls.

    8. Pastor Petty Labelle*

      This is way to dramatic for the situation. Some of the calls are internal, which would cause even more drama. Not to mention weird out the person on the other end and lead to the conclusion that OP is unprofessional.

      The calm, professional, not dramatic way is exactly the advice given — please stop commenting to my phone calls.

    9. Tippy*

      If someone said that to me I would seriously wonder if I need to call the cops. You tell me “you don’t feel safe” I’m thinking you’re in physical and immediate danger.

    10. fhqwhgads*

      That script is way too long, and too easily could be misunderstood by the person on the phone – when they’re not even the reason you’re saying it – but the general notion of this sort of thing could be an OK tactic if telling the coworker to knock it off doesn’t work. Something more like “I am not talking with you from a private place, so if I’d need to share confidential information outloud, right now I can’t.” Or something like that. Although with this particular coworker, I wouldn’t be shocked if she then was like “ooooh what’s so confidential” even though that’s totally tone deaf. So maybe not. But if the actual were problem were not wanting to say certain (particularly medical) things outloud due to who is in earshot, that’s a better way to explain why you’re answering in a certain way to the perso on the other end of the phone.

    11. custom formed pieces of marine grade polymer*

      I’m sorry but this is just pretty unhinged and will make the LW sound unhinged to the person on the other end of the phone who will probably be dialing 911 before she’s even finished speaking (or just tell her to call back when she can speak privately). LW, you’re old enough to have a career, a baby (soon), write into this website, AND follow up in the comments. Therefore, you’re old enough and able enough to just have a mature, sit-down conversation with your office-mate about her not commenting on every one of your phone calls. Or you’re going to have to start taking the more private/sensitive phone calls from your call or somewhere else. Or find a WFH job or a job with a private office. To paraphrase Parks and Rec, you have options.

      1. OP #3*

        I agree that the comment was kind of…. a lot more intense than I think is warranted here. I just wanted to be polite, but I guess that doesn’t lead to productive discussions, does it?

        Btw, I’m neurodivergent too! That may be why I’m struggling here.

  9. niknik*

    LW#1:

    So this is a slow job with little to do under a weak, uninvolved manager ? Sounds like Jane is treating it as an easy meal ticket, can’t say i really blame her. Any chance her (non) reactions might be born out of some form of contempt for Amanda ?

    1. Arrietty*

      Doesn’t really matter why, because it’s an unprofessional and immature way to behave at work. And it doesn’t change the situation for LW, who is getting stuck with extra work.

      1. duinath*

        Yeah, and if I were LW1 I would step all the way out of all that extra work.

        It sounds like they are volunteering for it, is the thing. If Jane doesn’t respond, they don’t actually need to jump in or nudge her to speak up.

        If Jane not speaking up causes problems, that is for Jane and Amanda to solve, LW1 isn’t responsible for this (and probably isn’t getting paid to deal with it).

  10. English Rose*

    OP1#: Do you know what happens when you’re on leave – does Jane contribute then, or does she wait until you get back? That might give a clue to whether you’re jumping in too fast.
    Also, how about suggesting to Jane that you split who responds according to some kind of schedule – maybe you take the lead alternate weeks or something like that?

  11. Nodramalama*

    I wonder how old the women saying girl/girly is and whether it has anything to do with some of the degradation of work norms people are seeing that seems partially due to social media and in particular tik tok Because girl/girlie has become VERY common on social media, online and as a slang term.

    1. Nightengale*

      The letter writer says she is 31 and the “girl” people are within 10 years, so 20-40 sounds like.

      I’m 48 and definitely heard “girl” used between women more in the past than I do now. Our office manager who is a women around 70 does refer to our all female front staff group as “the girls” sometimes, like “I’ll see what the girls want me to order for lunch for our meeting.” I really don’t hear it from people my age or younger these days. Like the above commenter, I went to a “women’s college, not a girl’s school.” Maybe I’m not online enough in all the right (wrong?) places?

      1. Cj*

        girls shouldn’t be used in a professional context, but it’s still common to say things like “girls night out” when you’re talking about friends. and I wouldn’t mind a friend saying “hey girl” to me, either in a text or in person. but girly in any context would drive me nuts, and I would shut that down right quick.

      2. PhyllisB*

        It’s everywhere. When my 93 year old mother was in the hospital, her 23 year old nurse addressed her as ” girl” several times. Mom and I just looked at each other and raised our eyebrows, but she was such a sweet, attentive, and otherwise professional nurse that we just let it go.

      3. Nodramalama*

        Girl and girlie are quite common online, and in different subcultures depending on the circumstances and how they’re used.

        Girl, as in Gurl is very common in certain queer spaces. Girl and Girlie are very common online, e.g girl dinner, girl maths, and something like “I’m not a cat girlie”

    2. Cj*

      the letter writer said that they are 31, and that women 10 years younger and 10 years older than them are the ones doing it. so 21 to 41.

    3. Ann O'Nemity*

      “Hey girl” is fairly common here and is often used to express familiarity, informality, and sometimes empowerment among women. Many women have reclaimed the term “girl” to subvert its historically diminutive connotations. It’s also prevalent in various cultural contexts, with media and pop culture further normalizing its use. I don’t assume any negative connotations or ill intent when someone says “hey girl” to me; the speaker is usually just trying to be friendly.

      1. Nodramalama*

        I didn’t say there was a negative connotation it’s just not very professional. I call my friends babes all the time. I dont call my boss babes.

        1. amoeba*

          Yeah, I mean, I’d even be fine if a (female) work friend used “hey girl” with me when we meet for lunch in the canteen or whatever! It’s just… not something that belongs in any kind of work-related communication.

          1. Ann O'Nemity*

            Yes, this is more what I had in mind – a social interaction with a friendly coworker. “Hey girl, do you have any plans this weekend?”

            Not so much in formal meetings or formal communications.

  12. Mornington Crescent*

    It’s making me smile that none of the related posts are really that related, they just all happen to feature ‘Amanda’ as a name in them somewhere.

  13. Toodles*

    I really want to hear from the OP in the “related” post “Is my coworker trying to sabotage me?” What happened? Did things resolve?

  14. Been there done that*

    LW3: After using the suggested script ONCE to set expectations, the solution going forward is to deflect all future questions and comments about your calls. Your office mate’s curiosity is not a warrant and their questions are not subpoenas! You can respond to this rudeness (if it continues) in a matter-of-fact manner: “You are not entitled to that information.”

    1. Putting the Dys in Dysfunction*

      LW3 is sharing an office with this person. A brusque comment like that would get the message across, but then LW3 would have to live with the long term iciness that followed.

      A more or less friendly version should be tried first. Alison’s example is good, or any other that politely conveys the idea that it’s uncomfortable for LW knowing that their phone calls are being listened to.

    2. Alf*

      that’s a bit confrontational IMO – there are more calm responses like “oh, that’s personal” or “I’d rather not say “. also op could refer back to the original convo – “this is the kind of thing I was talking about. would you mind just pretending you didn’t hear me?”

      1. Pastor Petty Labelle*

        You can do that a few times but if coworker keeps doing it, its time for a clue by four — then you can say you are not entitled to that information. Sometimes with rude people you have to be blunt.

      2. Saturday*

        I would definitely try these options first. I’m assuming LW doesn’t want the office to be so tense. If this really is a wrong-headed attempt at building rapport, maybe LW can find a few other things to talk to her about instead.

        If it was just a matter of making the coworker stop, without any concern about their relationship, LW probably wouldn’t have needed to write in for a script.

    3. Spencer Hastings*

      “For now, I’ve been trying to give her brief non-answers and put my headphones back on as quickly as possible.”

      But even if she hadn’t explicitly mentioned it in the letter, I think we can give LWs a *little* credit.

      1. OP #3*

        I appreciate everyone’s comments. It’s true that I would like to somehow preserve a good working relationship with my officemate, for her sake and mine. She is difficult to work around in a lot of ways, but she is generally a good person who means well.

  15. Anna*

    The only time a colleague as addressed me as “girlie” in an email, I played it off like it was a joke and send a really over the top reply. That’s genuinely how it struck me though – she’s a senior administrator, it just never crossed my mind that she was being genuine until way after I’d already replied.

    My reply: Yaaaassss girl, on fleek! [Your business idea] is lit, no cap.

    In retrospect, I think she thought I was making fun of her. She addresses me normally now, though so.

    Not sure if this is part of it, but people often think I’m mid-millenial when I’m actually Gen-X. When I need people to know my age, I drop in 90s trivia. (For example, a story about driving my friends to watch Pulp Fiction in theaters.) People sometimes are a bit condescending until they catch on.

    1. bamcheeks*

      Apparently the kids in my 9yo daughter’s class no girl’d and yas queen’d their teacher when he was trying to get the projector working and it still makes me laugh thinking about it.

    2. Ferret*

      This is reminding me of the Leeds Royal Armouries promo video – look it up if you want a happier Friday. It’s time to enter your historical era….

      1. whimbrel*

        I *adore* those videos from museums/historic sites/zoos/whatever that feature people much older than the current slang attempting to use that slang! They are so charming. :D

      2. Elitist Semicolon*

        That man’s delighted grin when he pointed to a portrait of Elizabeth I and said, “GIRLBOSS” gave me absolute life. He’s the best out of that entire genre.

        1. Kit*

          He really is – I find the scripts and performances can be hit-or-miss in that genre but he absolutely served.

    3. Paint N Drip*

      Oh man, if I sent you the ‘girlie’ it would mean I thought we had connected a little bit. That response would absolutely make me think you were dunking on me (and since it’s a one-to-one email, it wouldn’t seem like a joke), and probably would never offer another overture to you. I am a middle millennial and I just want to have friendly relationships with coworkers (crying emoji)

  16. Prof. Commenter*

    As with so many things, the use of “girl” and “girlie” to refer to adult women follows a familiar path: Black women will say or do something, gay men will imitate them, and White women will in turn copy the gay men. This is why we see horrors such as White women saying “yass queen” and other cringe-inducing nightmares. The Black women–gay men–White woman pipeline is real and constitutes a society-wide version of a human centipede that should be put out of its misery.

    1. Tea Monk*

      I laughed pretty hard. But all the black women in my black woman dominated office know not to say hey girl hey in professional emails, even tbough we got the tiktok or whatever so it makes OP’s email senders even more cringe to use it..

      1. Lady Danbury*

        That’s the problem with so much slang/dialect that gets taken out of its original context. As a Black woman, I cringe when I see Black slang that has been around for decades in some cases being referred to as TT speak. Especially since it often isn’t even used correctly. “Hey girl” to a friend? Totally normal. “Hey girl” in a work email? My initial reaction would be to think something along the lines of wtf?

    2. TiffanyInHouston*

      This right here!! As a black woman, I’m not responding to gal, girly, hey girl, yass queen or anything similar. There’s too much loaded history behind white folks demeaning black folks by not calling them by their given names. Play with someone else, I’m grown and will be addressed as such.

      1. I went to school with only 1 Jennifer*

        White woman here! There’s exactly ONE person I call “girly”. She’s my cat, and the only female of the bunch. Everyone else gets called by name. But I’m like Marshmallow and her mom — I grew up around women saying “they’re women, not girls” and I always agreed.

      2. Bossy*

        Well… as a black woman my friends and I frequently use “hey girl” in greeting (no girlie and all that) but yeah it’s not at work and also yeah – it’s for just us.

    3. GuessI'mNotAGirlieAfterall*

      I’m so glad you stated this so explicitly, Prof.; I have kind of a parrot-brain, so I latch onto catchy new usage and tend to repeat it. This will at least make me stop and think first.

      1. Prof. Commenter*

        I appreciate your appreciation! I have a lot of unpopular takes so I’m glad this one seems to resonate with people.

  17. Dog momma*

    #2. hey girl..is for teens interacting socially. Not the workplace.. jmo

    #4. I’m in SC, in a hurricane disaster area. You said you’re in an area of flooding and wind but, but little damage. You don’t have any idea how much damage that area or those businesses have. And considering how close we are to GA,& another SC county that were both hit hard, we consider ourselves very fortunate dealing with the extensive damage we have.
    Let this go for awhile, Check with them in a week.

  18. WLP*

    #1 OP says their role is small with not enough work for one person. It’s not super clear if they hold the same position as their coworker, just that they are under the same boss. If the coworker has enough on their plate (or perceives that they do) compared to the OP, maybe they’re standing back so things can be more equitable. OP immediately jumping in on things just makes it easier. If not, how are they both filling their days/weeks if there isn’t legitimately enough work both of them to do?

    1. Cj*

      it would also make it harder for the letterwriter to say they are swamped, so could their co-worker respond to Amanda, as Alison suggests.

      1. Pajama Mommas*

        OP #1, that sounds super frustrating! And, given what you said about there not really being enough work for 2 people, I wonder if it might help to shift your thinking about the situation. Each time that there is a question and you are the one to respond, it shows your boss (and others above her) that you are an involved, committed employee. If, at some point in the future, your bosses realize that there isn’t enough work to support 2 positions and they have to let someone go, you WANT to be the one who has consistently been doing the work.

  19. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

    LW#1 – does Amanda state any deadlines when she asks you & Jane to do something? Or are you imposing the ‘must repond to boss quickly’ deadline on yourself – either because you are actually a conscientious employee, or because you’ve got nothing else to do at the moment?

    I would augment Alison’s advice with some extra steps, too.

    1) Amanda makes request
    2) Jane gives thumbs up
    3) You respond “Thanks for looking at this Jane. If you need any input from me, I’m available at (later day/later time)”. This communicates to Amanda and Jane both that you interpret the thumbs-up as “yes, I will do this”.
    4) You don’t do anything else until there’s an explicit, personal request for you to do so.

    This makes it explicit to Amanda that you are ready and willing to pitch in, but that as far as you are concerned, it’s Jane who’s going to handle the request.

  20. Seashell*

    Does OP1’s Amanda not understand what thumbs up means in general or just when it’s used when a more specific response is needed?

    Maybe OP can try to loop Jane in on the response, like “I’m going to do XYZ – does that work for you, Jane?”

    1. Michaela T*

      I think a lot of offices maybe need to communicate a consensus on what a thumbs up means. I use it as a “I have seen this IM/email and will do the thing” indicator, but recently found when I was training a group where I gave tasks and asked for them to reply when they were finished that some of them considered the thumbs up to be an “I’m finished” response. And then they got annoyed when I followed up to ask the status on their tasks, which was a whole thing.

    2. Zelda*

      Does thumbs-up have a meaning particular to a situation where a more specific response is needed? I may be out of the loop here…

      1. fhqwhgads*

        I think the problem is if the question is yes/no, thumbs up is pretty clearly a yes.
        If the question is “Will you please do x?” thumbs up could mean “I did x”, could mean “I will do x”.
        If the question is “What do you think the projection for xyz should be?” thumbs up is completely meaningless. Could be intended by some as “I read this” but “I read this” is a weird response to “What do you think about xyz?”
        I’m sure there are some folks who have some consistent internal logic about what they mean by it, and there may even be multiple folks who think the same way, but it’s got to be FAR from any kind of reasonable norm non-mind-readers could deduce.

        1. JustaTech*

          Yes, sometimes thumbs up means “yes”, or “I agree”, but sometimes it’s used like “roger” on the radio – “heard and understood”.
          Like “JaT, the freezer is beeping” Me: “thumbs up” – means, I saw your message and will go check on the freezer. (This would involve a second message from me later about the status of the freezer.)
          Or “JaT, there’s pizza in the break room” Me: “thumbs up” – I saw your message, I may or may not go get some pizza.
          But I wouldn’t use it when an actual reply is needed.

    3. Expectations*

      thumbs up in my experience is thanks for the info or I agree with this. It does not indicate more information is coming later. I’ve never seen it used for that; it has always been the final acknowledgement of something

    4. Student*

      I had one colleague who wanted explicit emoticon acknowledgement that I’d read her work texts. Not to transfer any other information, like actual agreement or acceptance or completion – she wanted me to use it as confirmation that I’d seen her text.

      The kicker was that our work text system will, on default settings, SHOW you whether someone has read your text, with a little icon to the right of every message. I tried to explain to her that the feature she wanted was already in our work messaging system, and how to read it. She got offended and told me that she’d immediately turned that feature off and absolutely refused to use it.

      So, I decided it wasn’t worth talking to her further, and thumbs-up it was on ALL her messages. It definitely impacted my opinion of her professionalism, common sense, and maturity.

      1. Annie*

        It’s possible that the built-in “recipient has read this” indicator can be triggered by someone mindlessly scrolling through a thread, making a different response necessary to indicate “recipient has READ read this, not just skimmed through”; the built-in indicator works fine with one recipient but doesn’t work with multiple; or having the recipient read/unread indicator turned on causes other unwanted stuff to happen, e.g. extra notifications that can’t be turned off any other way, but emoji react notifications CAN be turned off; the read/unread indicator affects the text flow, making it more work to determine which messages were read by the recipient, but emoji reactions don’t do that.

  21. Hendry*

    Sometimes if I’m emailing multiple people who are all guys I’ll start with “Hi Gents” or something like that, but these are all people I know very well and it’s appropriate.

  22. Caramel & Cheddar*

    I’m dating myself a bit here, but the “hey girl” thing reminded me of the Ryan Gosling Arts Administration memes that were briefly popular around 2012. They spun off from a broader Ryan Gosling meme that always started with “hey girl” but they were definitely very funny to those of us who worked in the arts at the time. That’s not at all what these “hey girl” folks are referencing, I assume, but there was a brief window of time where a “hey girl” wouldn’t have bothered me because of the prevalence of this meme.

    1. Generic Name*

      Yeah, that’s what I was thinking. I hear it in my head with a particular intonation. But if it bothers you, it bothers you.

    2. Hey Grill*

      There was “Hey grill” version of the meme with Ryan Gosling looking at a barbecue grill.

      I address my dog with “Hey grill” at least once a day. She doesn’t acknowledge this because she’s nearly deaf, but it amuses me.

  23. Colette*

    OP #1 – I’d suggest just not answering for Jane, just for yourself. So, for example, “sure, that time works for me”, “I can take the early shift on Tuesday”, “I’ll defer to Jane, I’m not working on that file”, etc. Amanda can follow up or take action if Jane doesn’t reply.

    1. Daphne*

      Yep. OP is choosing to answer for both of them. OP could make a different choice.
      OP, stop answering for Jane. Stop asking her directly for answers. Start answering for only yourself and let Jane worry about Jane.

  24. Nancy*

    I went to a women’s college in the 90s
    And have been correcting people who refer to women as as girls since then.

    And I hate, hate the whole internet ‘I’m an X girlie’ trend. Anyone who referred to me as ‘girlie’ would be immediately stopped, regardless of who that person is. Be polite LW2, and simply say, ‘please address me as Jane.’

    1. Nodramalama*

      It’s fine that you don’t want to be called girlie or girl but I think it’s weird to “correct” people who just use girl. Language evolves. If I say to my friend, girl get a grip, I would find it quite off putting if you corrected me.

      1. Potsie*

        I don’t think it is fair to say that your comfort is more important than others. It is off-putting to be corrected because it is being pointed out that you are wrong. Using casual language you would use with friends at work is not appropriate and it is rude to tell a coworker “girl get a grip”. They would not be wrong to tell you that they don’t want to be addressed that way.

        1. Dahlia*

          If you hear two friends talking and you interrupt them to “correct” them to not call each other girl, that’s an odd choice.

        2. Parakeet*

          Except that Nodramalama’s hypothetical involved talking to their friend. And Nancy’s, to which it was a response, was a broad statement not specific to work.

          Really though so much of this problem comes from not having a non-“girl” female version of “guys” (at least not anywhere I’ve lived). Not a good one anyway. Every alternative I can think of offhand has similar problems.

    2. Paint N Drip*

      It feels like there’s a big difference between being addressed as ‘girl’ [derogatory] in the workplace (have your girl do X, for instance) and women self-addressing as ‘X girlie’. I applaud your work on the former because professional women shouldn’t be infantilized but for the latter… just let a girl live?

  25. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

    OP 2. I’m with you on that – it’s really annoying. One tip I can provide is attempting to assert your preferred term back.

    That takes a bit of explanation. In email and written formats if they address you as ‘hey girl!’ (ug) or similar you address them back in the term you’d prefer (whether it be ‘hey mate’ or ‘hi (name)’) and set it to a slightly higher font size. And use the term a few more times.

    In speech it’s harder but relies more on repetition. In both cases you do not in any circumstances use the term they used.

    Most humans subconciously mirror others. You see this with people adopting other accents. Let it work for you. It doesn’t always work but it’s worth a shot.

  26. Elle*

    OP1: Hopefully the supervisor asks Jane about what’s holding her back. I had someone do the exact same thing on my team. I asked her about it and she connected it to anxiety and needing time to respond. Unfortunately in her case she said she needed several days to process questions and requests, which isn’t realistic. She is aware it was one of the reasons she didn’t get promoted and is working to change.

  27. sbc*

    For LW3, I am not sure what being pregnant has to do with it, but I would stop the personal calls away from your desk. If it’s the doctor’s office confirming an appointment, will they leave a message? If it’s your husband, can you text him instead? Or just don’t answer the phone and call the person back when you are away from your desk. I think that would give you a smaller battle to fight and let it be focused on work issues. It’s harder to explain your expectations of privacy when you are choosing to talk about private matters in front of a coworker.

    2. Cj*

      I figured she must mean that she is in a later months of her pregnancy, so she would be slower than usual to get up and walk to a more private area. other than that, I couldn’t figure it out either.

      1. sbc*

        In that scenario, the “good” news is she probably needs to take frequent bathroom breaks or otherwise move around to ease discomfort, so could make/take private calls away from the cubicle then. And texting the husband seems more courteous either way…the cubemate probably doesn’t want to hear LW3 talking to her spouse while she’s trying to work but can’t avoid it.

    3. fhqwhgads*

      Doctors offices will usually not leave a message other than “Doctor’s Name Office calling for Patient Name, please call back” because they can’t be sure someone who isn’t the patient won’t listen to the message. So no actual useful info. That said, all my doctor’s office’s confirmations are texts or links to go to the patient portal. I do get appt reminder calls, but they’re robots just saying “appointment reminder for Me on Date at Time.”

    4. JustaTech*

      As someone who spent an hour on hold with the doctor’s office last week trying to schedule an immunization before giving up and asking for a call back (another hour later), nope, you really do need to answer those calls.
      Usually the OB’s office is faster about answering the phone (because sometimes things turn from normal to emergency really fast), but it’s still likely 20+ minutes to return a call.

    5. OP #3*

      I’m in my second trimester. I mentioned it because I do have a lot of appointments and I have to take those calls. I use text and email wherever possible, but sometimes a quick call is necessary.

      In my building, my shared office is the most private space to deal with my calls, unfortunately. I don’t mind my coworker overhearing that I have an appointment or that I had to discuss a mistake with another coworker (she asks about work AND private calls). I just don’t want a post-call Q&A session every time I put down the phone. she also takes calls (professional and private) at her desk, and I try to remain respectfully unaware of what she needs to talk about.

  28. Ex-prof*

    LW #2– The whole “girl” thing drives me batty too. Especially when I hear young women unironically use “girls” to describe one gender and “men” another. It would be nice to think it was because that battle no longer had to be fought, but I look around me and I see it isn’t so.

    1. Angstrom*

      Yup. Makes me think of “steno girls”, “girls from the typing pool”, “my girl will take notes”, etc. That stuff should be long dead and buried.
      My immediate reaction to hearing “girlie” in the workplace would be “WTF is up with using that stupid diminutive?”

      1. Ex-prof*

        Or “the girl pool” in a Kurt Vonnegut story, I forget which one. The typists are referred to as “the girl pool”.

    2. Nodramalama*

      I think sometimes language just evolves and context changes, and the connotations that exist for one generation don’t exist for another. It doesnt make either interpretation right or wrong. But I think getting annoyed at a younger generation for using a word to refer to themselves that you dont like isnt going to get anyone anywhere.

      1. Angstrom*

        Well, if I’m being professional, I shouldn’t *express* my annoyance. I can still be annoyed. ;-)
        Realistically, the internal dialogue would probably be an eyeroll, a “kids these days…”, and an acknowledgement that I do stuff that my younger colleagues think is dumb.

      2. Ex-prof*

        You’re right, language does evolve and change. Take five points for Gryffindor. But in this case I think it is devolving.

    3. Orv*

      There seems to be something about the extra syllable in “women” that makes people find it stuffier and more formal than “men.” It’s interesting psychologically.

    4. Nikki*

      Equality is how I draw the line. I’ll use girls for adult women anywhere I’d use boys for adult men. So ‘night out with the girls/boys’ or ‘have the girls/boys over’ is fine, but it’s ‘there’s three women/men on the team’.

      My go-to group address since ‘guys’ was recently declared male-only (which as I woman I find ridiculous, but whatever) has been ‘you lot’.

      ‘Hello you lot.’
      ‘What are you lot up to?’
      ‘How have you lot been getting on with the dictionary project?’
      ‘Any of you lot want to come and get lunch?’
      ‘That lot still haven’t finished with the thesaurus.’

  29. Can't spell 'Who Cares' without HR*

    LW1: Whenever Jane replies Amanda’s question with a thumbs up, I’d leave it alone and not interact further. If Amanda ever asks you directly why you aren’t replying to her, you can honestly say “I saw Jane acknowledged your question, so I thought she was already handling it. Isn’t she?”

  30. justforfun*

    The “girl” discourse here is so interesting! I’m a millennial and have no problem being addressed as “girl”, and my friends and I use “girl” in casual conversation (I met a girl, saw a girl wearing a cute outfit, etc) when the “correct” term would probably be woman. I had a running joke with a friend that I didn’t become a woman (instead of a girl) until I turned 35.

    “Girlie” is indeed grating – but I think otherwise, acceptable workplace language norms are just changing as more millennials and gen Z take leadership roles and want to move away from stuffy, formal language. My workplace mainly communicates via slack (for internal comms) and we can use lots of emojis, gifs, etc and still be high performers and be respected by others in the company. Granted – we’re a progressive leaning, mission driven startup. But we have similar casual relationships with our vendors/agency partners too.

    1. Me again*

      FWIW I get the gendered issue and try to always use “hey team” or “morning yall” or people’s actual names in group messages, even if they are all people of one gender. Just calling out that in LW2’s situation, I think the other women saying “hey girl” to her are likely just trying to be friendly and establish rapport.

      1. Crepe Myrtle*

        yay, thank you! You never know someone’s gender unless they tell you, so I (nonbinary & not out) appreciate when a gender neutral friendly greeting is used.

    2. Pastor Petty Labelle*

      but there are still enough Gen X in the work place who remember having to fight not to be called girls at work. To be treated as professionals, not children.

      Girl, girlie in casual conversation – go for it. In the work place it is as unprofessional as the old Budweiser’s commercial Wassssssss up!

      1. Radioactive Cyborg Llama*

        Gen X here, the name partner in my first law firm job thought women shouldn’t wear pants, so yeah.

      2. justforfun*

        Fair! My gen X boss (and many other gen X colleagues, now that I think of it) are some of the biggest users of “girls” etc in our workplace – ex. when she introduced herself at an all hands, “I’m a (x state) girl transplanted to (x new state)” and frequently in casual conversation too. And she uses what I consider kind of infantilizing language talking to the team (calling the mostly millennial group “kids” even though we are all in our 30s, using a lot of “my dears” etc). It doesn’t bother me much because it comes from a good place – just interesting to hear various reactions to all this

    3. Fíriel*

      Yeah, I don’t know that I would refer to a coworker as ‘girlie’ (though most are older than me or are men, so I haven’t had a lot of opportunity) but I do use it for comedic effect with friends and casually, and am surprised how much offence people seem to take to it? I thought we all understood that ‘girl’ is in the unusual position of being in many dialects both the opposite of ‘boy’ and the opposite of ‘guy’ (‘doll’ having fallen out of favour) and so can be used in either way (female children or casual/lighthearted term for female adults).

      2. justforfun*

        such a good distinction about boys vs. guys! We don’t have a non-aged female term that doesn’t have other weird connotations/baggage (gals, ladies, etc). Should we bring “doll” back?!

        1. Emily of New Moon*

          “Doll” is infantilizing IMO. The closest we have is “chick,” which can also be problematic.

      3. SpaceySteph*

        Yeah I wish we had a better “guy” equivalent because neither woman nor lady really feels right to me. I use girl a lot casually, but I would never start a work email with “hey girly” that beyond reasonable usage for someone I’m not close friends with.

      4. Orv*

        I always thought the antonym of “guy” was “gal.” That’s also pretty much fallen out of favor, though.

    4. Abigail*

      This is extending past just “girl” and “women.”

      Some feminists believe that women are to be taken seriously and one way to do that is to correctly identify them as women, not girls.

      Some feminists believe that women have have choice. If they want to call themselves girlie that is their choice. There are parallels to this in many other marginalized groups. It’s a take back of the slang used against you. Some people feel a lot of power when they do this.

      I don’t think either of these groups are right or wrong but I do think they rub against each other and there isn’t really a solution for it.

      1. agender ace*

        I think that’s the wrong issue. Why does gender even need to be brought into it at all? It’s assuming everyone is cis, or is “proud to be a woman” and pointing out gender when it’s about work. Like why not just say “Hi everyone!”

        I’m afab but never totally got the hang of this kind of thing, never went to the bathroom in groups, etc. I suppose some of it could be showing solidarity with other women especially in male dominated fields, but it seems odd to me, personally, even when I was trying harder to perform femininity more to fit in. There are probably other ways to show solidarity that don’t reinforce gender stereotypes and othering ourselves?

        1. Abigail*

          It doesn’t matter if there are other ways to do it. Some people like it this way.

          If you are a person who thinks feminism is all about women’s rights to choose for themselves then you support their choice. If a woman decides to call herself a “girlie” that is her choice and I support it.

          If the LW doesn’t want to be called girlie that is her choice and I support that.

          What I do not support is things like “all women should reject being called a girl.”

    5. Tippy*

      I’m a Gen X and while the “girlie” seems a little odd (all I can think of is the X-Files episode where the villain keeps saying “girlie-girl”), the “girl” is completely something I and my coworkers use. Substituting the word woman in those conversations would come off as very formal and weird.

    6. Cacofonix*

      I’ve mentored women like you and asked them to notice, really notice how the most respected people young and old, senior or junior are referred to at work. Yes, language changes, priorities change, but how one sees oneself or wants to be perceived matters. That you interact with people from older and younger generations matters and that will always be true until you retire. Imagine getting a promotion or two at your workplace and how you’d want to be addressed. Girl, maybe?

  31. Tidal Wave*

    OP2,
    I’m near you in age and I sometimes get the same thing at work with other women saying hey girl when addressing me. Do I find it mildly less-than- professional? Yes. Am I going to risk making a friendly work relationship weird by addressing it with that person? No.

    I think having a comfortable work relationship is much more useful to me in this situation long-term. I also get treated like I’m younger than I am by older men at work and therefore taken less seriously, but let’s be real – I think those men will treat me that way whether or not someone says hey girl to me.

    1. Cacofonix*

      This is the most depressing comments on this thread. You could change all of it for yourself if you wanted to.

      1. Bella Ridley*

        Really? All of it? So you think that by changing one thing (term of reference), Tidal Wave will convince the older men at her work to see the error of their ways and begin taking her more seriously across the board? And more to the point, that the onus is on her to fix it? Huh.

  32. M*

    LW #2: I completely understand why you find being addressed as “girl” (or some variation) grating. Addressing an adult woman as “girl” is degrading, even if the person saying it doesn’t intend it that way. This practice has historically delegitimized and disempowered women, particularly in a professional setting. Even when it’s women addressing other women as “girl” in the workplace, the impact is the same. I’m usually with Alison on her advice, but not this time. It’s more than a pet peeve. It’s really not ok, and I would push back on this.

  33. Cacofonix*

    Can’t agree with the “hey girl” response. There is no reason I can think of to refrain from correcting someone who will call me a “girl” or “girly” in a professional environment. That is *maybe* for close friends, and only then if you know the other woman is fine with it. It’s disrespectful up or down in the chain and a fine example of ways women undermine themselves professionally yet still expect gender equality.

    There are a myriad of gracious ways to correct someone even quite senior to you. The obsequious suggestion to just roll with it because of hierarchy just can’t apply here.

  34. fine-tipped pen aficionado*

    OP 2 – You are always well within your rights to ask folk not to address you in a way you don’t like. It doesn’t have to be a big deal, but people will often forget so you’ll probably have to keep doing it. This is true whether it’s something weirdly gendered or not.

    I get a LOT of “Hey Lady!!!” in person and email with other women I don’t work with often. No one has ever taken it badly when I asked them not to call me that even though I’m cis and super femme. I just don’t like it! I don’t need another reason. Weirdly, I don’t mind “girl” because of the way I’m used to using it within my queer friend groups. That said, I don’t use it with folks outside that peer group (certainly not randos at work) because I’m aware of the world around me and how that could easily hit different for different folks.

    Anyway this was a long way of saying you’re valid, you’re not being psycho, and even if you were it would still be fine to ask not to be addressed that way!

  35. Kate*

    OP2, what are the odds that Mona-Lisa Saperstein, Ilana Wexler and Kayla Schaeffer from Hacks all ended up working in the same office? Seriously though–if I can think of 3 TV shows off the top of my head with annoying characters who are inappropriately familiar and gender-y in the workplace, your coworkers should know better. But I guess I agree that making a thing out of it could call more attention to your relative youth.

    1. hohumdrum*

      Putting Ilana in the same company as Mona-Lisa or Kayla has me aghast

      Or do just not appreciate our head of corporate morale???

  36. RagingADHD*

    LW1, when it comes to questions on email or chat, I might be Jane in my office, and Alison’s scenario about timing is exactly the reason why. When our manager asks a question that requires checking something, I will thumbs-up as soon as I see it come in, and then go look for the answer as soon as I reach a stopping point with whatever I’m working on (unless the question is clearly hair-on-fire urgent).

    About 75% of the time, my counterpart will drop everything and jump in with whatever she thinks the answer is before I can respond. I’m sure she feels overburdened, particularly because she then has to go back and figure out what she was in the middle of. Meanwhile, I feel like someone is trying to drag race me in traffic. Just — why? What’s the rush?

    Here’s the thing, though – it’s pretty common for her answer to be incorrect, incomplete, or even irrelevant, because she’s in such a hurry to answer that she didn’t digest the question or really go check the status.

    Occasionally I will put the correct answer in the chat. But most of the time, I will give my manager the correct answer on our 1:1 message thread, because I don’t want to be the “well, ackshully” person all the time. I have to continue working with my counterpart, and when she is called out, she pouts and becomes unhelpful.

    Now, when we’re in an in-person meeting, that’s a different matter and I don’t sit silently when there is a long pause in the conversation. But I do wonder whether Jane might be answering the manager on a different channel.

    1. Orv*

      This is interesting to me because I’ve never seen thumbs-up used that way; I’ve only seen it used to mean “I agree” or “let’s proceed.”

    2. fhqwhgads*

      Does whatever chat program you use not have a “looking” or “onit” emoji? If I were on the receiving end of your thumbs up I’d be perplexed. We have multiple emojis that mean some variation of “I will check” and if someone were acknowledging the request and looking for the answer I’d either: expect no response until they found what they were looking for and sent the actual answer OR if it’s a group and there’s a need to prevent multiple people spending time on the same thing, for someone to either say “I’ll check” or use one of the emojis that mean that.

    3. metadata minion*

      Why not make a note of the fact that you answered the question in the main chat? If I see that a coworker has indicated they’re going to reply and then they never do, I’ll wonder if they need help or forgot about it.

  37. Lurker*

    LW2-This may differ depending on the culture of the industry/workplace, but I don’t think I would ever address an email that way even if it was going to a really good friend of mine. I agree with Alison that there’s probably no harm in mentioning it once, but if it keeps happening after that depending on who you’re talking to it may just be one of those things you’ll have to live with. I agree that it seems a little too familiar!

  38. Tony Howard*

    OP 2: I think it is fine and perfectly appropriate to tell your colleagues how you would like to be addressed , and certainly there is nothing wrong with correcting them in a kind manner. That said, I had a female colleague (West Virginia native) who referred to me as “sweetie”, “dear” , “honey” one time too many, so I asked her to please stop and address me by my first name only. Well , it worked ! She stopped using all those inappropriate “terms of endearment” . In fact, she stopped talking to me altogether!

    So I would just caution the LW to be prepared for the consequences. This may be their way of being cordial, or friendly at work – not meaning to cause any offense. And if you call them out on it, you may become the villain and damage those relationships. So it all depends. Just remember : your action will have a re-action, and it might not be the one you intended.

  39. SpaceySteph*

    Ahh #3 giving me a flashback to when I was pregnant with my first and the hospital benefits coordinator called me to confirm benefits for my delivery. I answered at my desk with one other cube resident, and one of the questions was “vaginal or caesarian” and I stammered and tried to find a way to not say “vagina” where someone would be forced to overhear me. I finally was like “uhh the first one?” AWKWARD.

      1. Nikki*

        I like ‘traditional’ as an option.
        Modern/classic for c/v is another.

        I’m not such a fan of the term ‘natural’ myself, it makes me imagine caesarean babies emerging as little cyborgs.

  40. hi there*

    #4 – I was interviewing with a company whose main interviewer for my new role (yay!) was directly impacted by Helene. She had no power or water and limited cell reception for over a week! They were on the ball and had a colleague step in, which impressed me as a candidate. I did have to be patient and understanding, but I grew up in a hurricane-prone area so had a frame of reference for the impact of a normal hurricane. Helene was not normal. :(

  41. Meep*

    Re: LW#1 – I was once in a meeting with the owner and a coworker who has worked with him for nearly 20 years where neither of them spoke for a good 30 minutes. I just worked on my computer while they thought themselves out before either responded. Freaked out another coworker that none of us were speaking, but literally sometimes people need time to think.

    This is why I always ask my boss/owner questions well in advance that I don’t need an answer to right away. It works for us. But I know silence is hard for a lot of people.

  42. Yes And*

    At a work event (nonprofit), a young, junior, female staff member’s mother was volunteering. (Odd enough in itself to be remarkable at our org, but not untoward.) When YJFSM saw her mother at the volunteer training, she greeted her with a warm, “Hey girl!” and a hug. The mother seemed to find this welcome and normal.

    I don’t think I reacted noticeably, but I was just imagining the look on the face of my mother, my wife, or her mother if any of their respective daughters addressed them as “Hey girl!” I still laugh imagining it every time I’m reminded of it. So LW2, thanks for the chuckle.

  43. fhqwhgads*

    LW 3, seems to me like you’ve got the words already, or very nearly to them. At least if you’re talking to a peer, it seems fine to me to say “I’m not a psychopath, I promise: I don’t think corporate communication needs to be dry or dusty. I just don’t like being addressed as “girl” or “gal”. I prefer to be addressed by my name.”
    Leaving in the “psychopath” part helps lighten it.

    1. wavefunction*

      I like this better than just saying “please don’t call me girl/girlie.” I agree that it feels more lighthearted and thus leaves a better chance of preserving the relationship.

  44. Dawn*

    Hi LW2, take some of the words you used to write your three paragraphs about how you don’t like them calling you girl and use some – about five of them would be right – to ask them not to.

    “Please don’t call me girl.” There you go, that’s all you need. Problem sorted.

  45. I went to school with only 1 Jennifer*

    > Because I’m pregnant, it’s not always feasible to take my calls elsewhere

    I’m baffled here. Can anyone help me out?

    1. Orv*

      I assumed this was a reference to the fact that when someone is pregnant, they often physically can’t spring up and sprint out of the room to take a call.

        1. OP #3*

          It’s both. I can’t always hop up to take calls elsewhere when they come in and I just have a lot more personal/appointment-related calls than usual.

  46. mbs001*

    Show people who you are with your work and you don’t need to worry about the labels. Everyone is so touchy about everything today that I’m surprised anyone calls anyone by anything else than their name. But stop taking everything so personally for goodness sake.

    2. Student*

      Have you actually been on the receiving end of any of this? If not, then kindly stuff it.

      I’ve spent my life as the only woman in a room full of men, because I work in a technical field with a huge gender skew.

      I wish they’d just look at my f*cking work and not worry about labels. But no! No, the men in management in my field just can’t or won’t learn to do that.

  48. hic, haec, hoc*

    #3: I’m fond of responding to intrusive questions with a bright look and “sure! Why do you need to know?”

  49. Sylvia*

    #2 – An annoying man at one of my past workplaces said “Hey girl” as a greeting to every female co-worker, even if he didn’t know them. Somehow people started calling him Heygirl (everyone knew who they were talking about) and it became his new name. As far as I know, he never complained. I didn’t call him that, but I also never found out his real name.

  50. Princess Tomato in the Salad Kingdom*

    I think I’ve figured out why the whole addressing of “ladies” is offensive. I have not choice on how I’m being addressed. My name is also misspelled regularly, and it annoys me. I have to correct people. But I don’t have a choice in that addressing either. The person who is doing the addressing is making an assumption about me even before they get to their first wish in the first sentence of their email. That’s why I would be annoyed by being called “Lady.” I’m also from the Northeast and it’s not common. I’m thinking about the Superintendent who had his job offer rescinded. Would it have been too much for him to address the people in question with a Mrs. or a Ms.? or Dr.? Things to consider.

  51. NotYourGirlie*

    OP2, Those bother me too. I don’t like it in my personal life and even more so in a professional setting. It is really grating and weirdly gendered. There are so many natural ways to address a group of people at work!

    However, I agree that this is probably something to let go. Therefore, please know that there are many of us out there who also hate these “greetings”.

  52. Jack Straw from Wichita*

    Any chance–working at a large global company–you have some sort of DEI&C training you can fall back on? I am in mid-senior level management, and 15 years older than you, so the dynamic is different, but that’s the support I use.

    Saying things like, “Throwing out a gentle reminder that we shouldn’t gender groups of people; Org has made it clear using gendered language doesn’t align with our corporate values; No ‘girl’ here, just a Jacqulyn,” works well for me–but some of that is age difference between me and the team I manage (23-65+).

  53. Dav*

    #1 is there a chance this colleague sees you as the senior for one reason or another? I had a colleague with whom I shared a job title and on-paper seniority who openly viewed me as senior, and would always forward things “up” to me. it was awkward

Comments are closed.