open thread – November 18-19, 2016

by Alison Green on November 18, 2016

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue :)

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  1. Anony Mouse*

    I recently received a job offer contingent on background check. When I was in college I did work for a man who’d started his own company (just him and his wife) as a way to build my portfolio. He paid me with cash or by personal check. He was very nice and said I could use him on my resume/as a reference.

    I did when I got my first job out of college without issue. Now that I’m looking to move on I included it again. The problem is my new company insists they need “independent verification” that I worked for him (pay stub/W2). I explained why I didn’t have these and offered his contact information instead. It seems this can’t be that uncommon (unpaid interns, nannies) but they are insisting I need to provide something that meets their criteria.

    Has anyone else encountered this? Do you have any suggestions for appeasing the background check gods? Should I run screaming?

    1. Audiophile*

      Is this a government job?? How many jobs have you had since you stopped working for him?

      I worked a job off the books during college too. I never listed this on any version of my resume and never used this person as a reference. I’m not even sure it would show up in a background check.

      2. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

        If this was “under the table” e.g. you failed to report income on taxes illegally, than yeah don’t advertise that.

        Even nannies and babysitters should be reporting their income. Under a certain amount it is not taxable (varies by state) but all income should be reported taxable or not.

        1. Anony Mouse*

          I did report the income but I did it like you would money made as an independent contractor so there’s no way to verify where it came from which is what they want.

            1. Anony Mouse*

              It is but again, I can’t prove where it came from which they’re concerned about. It seems like they think I could have made the money on eBay and then claimed I was working to boost my resume?

              1. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

                Weird. I am so sorry you are going through that. Can you speak to the hiring manager?

                I would say if they have such huge trust issues that they will not take a tax return as proof of employment and the reasonable explanation that it was self employment I would take that as a very bad sign.

          2. Gaia*

            Even if you reported the income, it sounds like he didn’t pay his part if he didn’t issue you a 1099. If he had, you’d have received it. You can always try calling the IRS and asking for a tax transcript to see if it is on there.

        2. Amadeo*

          Yes. Even if it’s under the threshold and you may not owe taxes, file anyway, it’s possible there’s a credit available to you.

      3. Terra*

        The job offer is not for a government job but it is for a non-profit and I only have the one job since college.

    2. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

      Even if you are paid cash or personal check you should have submitted a 1099 as self employed at the end of the year to pay taxes on that income. I would submit that 1099 in lieu of the W2 and it should be fine.

      1. Anony Mouse*

        They won’t accept that because it doesn’t show where the money came from so I could have made it from eBay and be lying about working for this guy.

        1. Jessie*

          This is really weird. What a suspicious company NewJob seems to be! I’ve never had to verify anything like this. (And I even worked for state government once, which is Bureaucracy of all Bureaucracies!)

          Honestly, this is red-flaggy to me. I’ve had to provide college transcripts before. But no one has ever asked for old W-2s. Companies that did background checks as part of a job offer did it themselves, behind the scenes. Never involved me searching for proof that I did what I say I did.

          2. Honeybee*

            One company did a background check in the background but couldn’t confirm an internship I did for some reason, so they asked me for documentation to prove it. There were a variety of options, including W-2s and pay stubs. Luckily, I’m a paper hoard and I had an electronic copy of the offer letter from the internship even though it was 4 years ago, so I submitted that.

            I’ve saved my offer letter from this current job too, just in case!

        2. Miles*

          If the person is that paranoid about it I’d have second thoughts about what that says about them and their company.

      2. pandq*

        To be clear, it is the business owner who submits the 1099 – not the contractor/worker. It sounds like they did not, so there isn’t this kind of proof and that the OP is suffering the consequences of the former business owner’s actions.
        OP, I hope a conversation with the non-profit hiring manager will clear this up for you.
        And the fact that you did claim it as income even though you didn’t receive a 1099 speaks to your honesty.

    4. The Cosmic Avenger*

      I think the reason they’re stuck is that unless someone makes less than $600 a year, IRS requires employers to issue a 1099 (if a W-2 isn’t applicable). So if there’s no paper trail, that’s kind of shady.

      That said, I do think it’s ridiculous to insist on paperwork when there might not be any, especially if it’s not your most recent job.

      1. Gaara*

        Like, assuming this isn’t current, why would you still have this information, even if you did receive a W2? I put my stuff into TurboTax and then eventually, if it was a hard copy, it gets lost somewhere in my house or gets recycled.

        1. Amadeo*

          You should be keeping a file of those things, even if you used Turbo Tax. At least 7 years back or more. You never know when you might need it!

          1. YawningDodo*

            Yes, this. I’ve been surprised how often I need to reference my old tax documents (…usually when I’m trying to figure out how to file new ones, but still). The official recommendation is 7 years because iirc that’s how far back you can be liable for an audit, but I personally choose to keep all of them on a permanent basis. It doesn’t take a lot to set up a personal filing system; I picked up a filing cabinet at a thrift shop for $30, and before that I used plastic crates I got from an office supply store.

          2. The Cosmic Avenger*

            Come on, it’s the 21st century! :)

            I only get my W-2 electronically now, I don’t even get a paper copy. I save the PDFs forever, though, and I scan in any paper documents that I get (like a very few 1099s, most of those are electronic, too) before I shred them.

            1. Amadeo*

              LOL, perhaps, but there’s a certain security in having hard copies stored away just in case. Hard drives and back ups can fail, but the paper copies will always be there.

              2. The Cosmic Avenger*

                Me, personally, since I’m both an early adopter and an environmentalist, I try to replace paper with digital documents whenever and wherever possible. I also find that it’s SO much easier to organize and keep under control this way.

                Right now I have copies of my tax documents on two cloud storage services, both requiring two-factor authentication, and I keep local copies on 5 different password-protected drives.

                But you do you, Amadeo. :)

          3. One Handed Typist*

            And if something notable happened during that year, keep it longer! We had malware on our rarely used desktop which held digital copies of our tax returns (including the SSN of every member of our family). We knew there was malware because we kept coming to the computer and discovering our tax folders open when we KNEW we hadn’t done it. We reported the potential fraud to the IRS and set up a password for filing, froze credit on my husband and I as well as our minor child, and notified a few different places. We have printed out hard copies of everything to go in the safe and will keep all of that in perpetuity since our socials were compromised.

    6. Jerry Vandesic*

      Just tell them that you don’t have any of this documentation. Give them the guy’s phone number, and then leave it at that. Not much more you can do.

    7. Background Screening Co Employee*

      That’s genuinely weird. They should be able to contact your former employer for that information – Tax documents are normally used as a back up if they can’t get in touch with the employer.

    8. Jessie*

      Unpaid internship is different, because you would not be expected to have any type of tax filing form for the job. But you were paid, so your NewJob is looking for the tax filing. Do you think they might be looking to make sure you did your work legally? Like, you didn’t just accept money under the table without paying taxes on it? It seems like you perhaps did work under the table, so if they are trying to suss that out you may be stuck. But if they just want some kind of written proof that this work experience actually happened, would they be willing to accept a letter from this guy on company letterhead stating that you worked for him? Maybe having it in writing will help them feel they’ve “verified” it appropriately (some companies can just be bureaucratic that way, and like paper in their files!).

      1. Anony Mouse*

        No, I paid taxes on it but submitted them on my taxes as additional income or miscellaneous income? Whatever the term is thus it doesn’t show where it came from (to be fair I may have included some babysitting/tutoring/etc. money in the total).

        1. Jessie*

          Did you get a 1099 from him, and do you happen to still have it?

          Can you ask them what they are trying to have verified specifically so that you can problem solve a way to get them their proof – like, do they care about whether it was under-the-table or not (if so, maybe just show them a copy of your taxes that year) or do they just want something in writing (so maybe letter from him on letterhead)?

        2. Gaia*

          If you ever find yourself in this situation again, don’t report it like that. It was a job, report it as such. He should have issued you a 1099. That he didn’t, indicates he wasn’t meeting his tax obligation and that necessary Social Security, Medicare, etc taxes were not being paid. That isn’t great and it is likely their sticking point.

          1. Anony Mouse*

            It was a freelance/contract job so as far as I’m aware he wasn’t obligated to pay most of that (Social Security, unemployment, etc.) and it was under the reporting threshold on it’s own so I assumed that was part of it.

          2. Jessie*

            Yeah, he should have issued a 1099, but it’s not a crisis that he didn’t. 1099 employers have nothing they need to pay – they don’t pay any FICA taxes. The 1099 employee is responsible for all taxes, including what is normally the employer’s share of FICA.

            So I’m with others who recommend that you just tell the background check company that you do not have a W-2 or 1099. They’ll need to figure out some other way to be satisfied.

    9. Phoebe*

      Would they accept a copy of a cancelled check that you deposited? If so, your bank might have electronic copies.

        2. A Plain-Dealing Villain*

          So they won’t take an employer’s written word, plus a voided check, plus your tax records as sufficient evidence that you were employed? I don’t think there is much else anyone could provide at that point.

        3. Colorado CrazyCatLady*

          Is there anyway to verify that he is associated with his company name? Or would that not be good enough? Because this sounds ridiculous. At this point, I wouldn’t even want to work for this employer.

    10. Gaia*

      Yea it sounds like this was an off the books job where, perhaps, taxes were not paid? I’d leave that off your resume. Many people will have a real issue with that, rightly or wrongly, because it is technically not legal work.

      1. Anony Mouse*

        It was a freelance job so the company wasn’t obligated to pay any with holding or such and I reported it as just miscellaneous income because technically it was below the tax threshold. I can show that I reported X income that year but not the company it came from.

    11. Tomato Frog*

      Is it the hiring company insisting on this or is it the background check company? Because I was in a similar situation with a background check company — they couldn’t reach one of my former employers and they asked me for a W2 or pay stub, which I didn’t have. I just told the background check company that I didn’t have any proof and let it be their problem. They were generally not very competent, anyway, so I felt like this was another sign of their incompetence. Perhaps I was wrong in that particular, but anyway, in the end they just dropped it and I still had the job.

      One can very legitimately not have that sort of documentation from an old job.

      2. TootsNYC*

        Just become someone asks a question doesn’t mean you can’t say “no.”

        So, “we need documentation” can be met with, “I don’t have it. Sorry.”

    12. Eric*

      I had something very similar happen. I was selling software on an App Store. I eventually was offered a job for the company that operated the very same App Store. The background check company couldn’t verify it even though I game them a Schedule C showing the income reported from this business (it was below the threshold for the company to issue a 1099-K). They wouldn’t accept self prepared tax returns (WTF?).

      I eventually called the recruiter and explained the situation. She got an exception for me even though the background company officially reported that they couldn’t verify my background.

    13. nonymous*

      If you reported the income you can give IRS permission to share a tax transcript with your new employer (I just had to do one as part of a mortgage application, it’s form 4506-T). If your employer isn’t aware of this process, you can pull it yourself, there are a few different flavors – look for the “wage and income” transcript.

    15. Moonsaults*

      I think the problem is that you’re saying you were his employee, instead you were an independent contractor and “legally” in business for yourself.

      This should not be on your resume at all, except under “Freelance” work and therefore they wouldn’t request the same background information. Legally you should have a copy of the paperwork he sent you to tell you how much to claim on your taxes, not the taxes themselves, no that’s an accumulation. The actual 1099 form, which if you don’t have a copy on your own files, you can get in touch with the IRS for it.

      If you just added up all the checks and cash and claimed it, without a 1099, you are indeed not going to clear this up. You are best off not claiming him as an employer ever again in case this pops up again.

      They are being difficult but try explaining it differently in the form of freelance and to see if they’ll drop it.

      1. Karo*

        But that would still be on her resume (albeit in a different section), and they would still want proof that she worked with them.

  2. Anonymous for this*

    I’d love input on how to approach my upcoming performance evaluation. I’ve been in my job for nearly two years with no formal training or performance review, and four different managers. Recently I’ve completed some high profile/high cost impact projects and made a few mistakes. I believe these happened for a few different reasons: 1) never trained on how to do said task 2) faster turnaround time meant less time for quality assurance 3) me, not doing a great job of anticipating what might be needed 4) me, beating myself up over a mistake and losing focus, thus making more mistakes (I believe #2 could have been avoided by me doing a better job on #3).

    I think that these past few months have been a huge learning opportunity for me and I know that I can improve going forward. However, I’m unsure of how to approach my evaluation. I pride myself on being the go-to person who gets the job done, so these recent months have thoroughly annihilated my self-esteem. I absolutely do not want to come across as making excuses for my mistakes, but I’m not sure how the conversation should unfold on my end. Please help.

    1. Terra*

      Being honest is a good first step (although you probably want to rephrase #4). Go in with a list (mental or physical) of things you did well, things that could improve, and anything you feel like your manager/the company could do to help you improve.

    2. Grits McGee*

      Was the finished project successful despite the mistakes? It sounds like producing perfect work is really important to you, but it may not be as big an issue to your manager than it is to you.

      Either way, I believe that Alison and other commenters have said that the best way to handle this is to show that you’re being proactive about correcting mistakes in the future.

      For instance, you could say, “Unfortunately because we were rushed for time, we didn’t have a chance to do QA on the teapot spouts and some of our clients had leakage issues. In the future I’ll make sure we schedule in enough time to do more thorough QA.”

      Or, “Unfortunately, we were delayed because I didn’t know to contact [stakeholder] and I needed to go back and integrate her input into the teapot design. For my next project, I know that I need to reach out to her and I’m going to make a point before starting to double check with you that I have a complete picture of everyone that should be consulted.”

      But generally, if you are getting positive feedback/ your manager doesn’t being it up, don’t being it up either!

    3. nonymous*

      Can you identify areas where issues came up and identify process solutions? For some the solution is that you will review formal processes/seek mentorship. For others it may be that you add a QA step (then you can bring up the impact on TAT). For that focus issue, maybe you can describe your (updated) system of tracking your time/priorities.

      This is really a “know your audience” situation – I’ve had some bosses who want evidence that I’m thinking about a systems solution to my errors and others who need me to apologize, but don’t care about the details. The latter is non-productive imo.

    4. One Handed Typist*

      I would focus on how you learned from the mistakes. “On my last project I was tasked with creating a new custom color scheme for the Holiday Teapots collection. The design process went well, but I now know I should have consulted co-worker Fergus at an earlier stage to provide better focus on the scheme. This is something I am adding to continuity documentation and including in my project report so that information is available to others who are either being trained or attempting a similar project.”

      I would also ask for training. “I was expected to use Software X version 9 for this project, but my previous training was in version 7. There were several key changes in the new version that slowed my progress. I found some free tutorials on YouTube that were able to clarify some of those changes, but I feel I would benefit from some more in-depth training. Is that something the company can support?”

  3. Newbie Searcher*

    I have been interviewing to leave my first full-time post-college job and I am hopeful that the recent interviews I’ve had will lead to job offers. However, I have never had to juggle multiple offers before. I think I might be getting a couple offers at once, or I’m going to get an offer from one job while I’m hoping hear back from a job that I’d prefer more.

    So any advice going forward? I’m feeling a bit anxious about having choices (whereas current job was really my only choice), needing to decide one job over the other, and generally being really worried about making the wrong choice. I picture accepting a job that sounds good for me and then another better job comes around when it’s too late. I know every job is a risk but I want to set myself up for making the right decisions as best I can.

    1. Anon13*

      I think honesty (to an extent) is generally the best policy in this type of situation. Most companies realize you are interviewing with multiple companies at the same time and won’t be put off by that fact. Of course, you can’t expect companies to wait too long for a response to their offer, but there’s no reason a company should be upset if you ask for say, a week to consider their offer and let them know you are also interviewing with other companies and you want to make sure you get the best fit.

    2. Future Analyst*

      This is always tough, but once you accept a job, tell yourself that you’ll really give it your all for 6 months (or a year, or whatever makes sense in your situation). I previously accepted a job that turned out to be terrible (and unfortunately, the company that I really, really wanted to work for contacted me for an interview after I had accepted), so it’s possible that that’s what happens to you. BUT, you learn lots of things from any job you take, even if it’s terrible, so nothing is truly squandered unless you don’t take the time to assess what worked and what didn’t work.

      In terms of deciding between multiple offers: a) have a list of things you like and don’t like at your current company at hand when you’re assessing the offers– hopefully during the course of your interviews, you were able to get a sense of ways in which the new jobs and companies are similar and dissimilar to your current role/company, so that you can cross-reference the good and the bad at your current spot with the other places. b) don’t be tempted to look at just the money aspect: more money is usually helpful, but it’s not the whole story. Take a careful look at the benefits offered (I’m a huge fan of spreadsheets to compare and contrast), and take non-tangible benefits (a more relaxed dress-code, summer Fridays, whatever) into account as well. c) Trust your gut: if the company looks great, and the job sound good, but the manager strikes you as someone who wouldn’t quite trust you to do your job, ask more questions (or see if you can talk to one of his/her current reports). Companies may not always allow this, but if you have an off feeling about someone, make sure to acknowledge it while trying to assess the larger picture.

      And for the love, if you’re interviewing and they don’t let you meet the person who would be managing you, RUN. :) Good luck!

    3. MsCHX*

      You are young so you do have some flexibility still. Meaning if you take Job A and it sucks you can realistically move on to Job B within a “relatively” short period of time and not many will bat and eye. But if you go through 4-5 jobs in a few years, that will be bad.

      Company’s should expect that you’re interviewing with multiple places and in fact, may ask if you have other offers. I agree with Anon that you should feel free to express that you are interested in the role but you are entertaining other offers (or another offer). Making the choice is tough but it probably won’t be the 1st time!

    4. nonymous*

      Theoretically, every job offer is one that you’re legitimately interested in working, no? So in a sense you can’t make a “bad” choice. But to maximize the gains of a “great” choice, it’s reasonable to ask for time to consider, and it’s also reasonable to ping the lingering hiring manager giving them a final opportunity to present their offer.

    5. kw10*

      If you get an offer from one job while waiting to hear back from another that you prefer more, definitely let the second place know! You can explain very politely that you wanted to let them know that you have another offer and have to respond by xx date, you prefer their job and you’re wondering when they’ll be able to let you know a decision. If they really like you, they may try to decide faster to have a chance. I’ve been on both ends of this situation (applying and hiring).

  4. ThatGirl*

    Weird thing at work this week. We have monthly food days to celebrate birthdays, and one of my co-workers has been in charge of the emails. She usually puts goofy facts about those fake holidays like “National Cheese Day” or whatever, or pictures.

    This month said CW was feeling depressed over the election and did the bare minimum with just the birthdays and the date of food day in a fun font. It wasn’t hostile, she didn’t mention the election at all, it was just bare-bones. Her manager (who is not my manager) decided that was disrespectful to the people who had birthdays and took the duty away from her. I was just sort of boggled by it all.

    1. Xarcady*

      That seems an extreme over-reaction. I wonder if her manager wanted to take this away from her anyway, and used this one email as an excuse.

      1. ThatGirl*

        Maybe? I mean, I like her manager in general, she isn’t usually prone to overreacting to things (she’s been my manager in the past) but there could be other things going on I don’t know about.

          1. Working Mom*

            I think both people, the coworker and the manager are both overreacting. If the election didn’t go your way, I’m sorry. I know how it feels. But move on. And the manager, taking away a small little “duty” like that because one month it wasn’t as fancy/fun? Come on. Everyone needs to get get a life.

            2. Jessie*

              Agree with neveryjaunty. The CW is allowed to be upset. It didn’t stop her from doing her job. The manager pitched a fit because CW didn’t jump up and down with rainbows shooting out her nose, I guess. CW doesn’t need to “get a life” but manager is an idiot.

              1. EmmaLou*

                But she didn’t do her job. The people whose birthdays are coming up still get to celebrate whether they like the dude about to be in the office or not. They are still worth celebrating. Still worth having fun with and life did not end with the election. The celebratees got short shrift because her candidate lost. That’s not fair to them. If she felt she couldn’t make it as fun or celebratory, then she should have mentioned that. Huge deal? No. But a deal.

                1. JB (not in Houston)*

                  Wait, no, she did do her job. The celebrating is the food day, not the email telling people about the food day. She just adds goofy facts for fun. The email still told people the information about the day and she still used a “fun font.” They got their celebration. The manager overreacted. If someone at a workplace feels like they didn’t get adequately “celebrated” by the coworkers because the email telling everyone about the celebratory food day wasn’t fun enough, then maybe they are the ones taking something too seriously.

                3. neverjaunty*

                  It doesn’t appear that anyone really thought it was a deal except 1) the manager and 2) people who think nobody has a right to be sad post-election. FFS.

                4. tigerlily*

                  From my understanding, the celebration bit hasn’t happened yet. So all those people whose birthdays it is still get to celebrate on the actual celebratory/food day. You’re saying she didn’t so her job because the invitation to the celebration – which included all the pertinent information like the names of the people being celebrated – because it maybe didn’t have a fun fact to go along with it this time around? Again – this is the INVITATION to the celebration, not the celebration itself. I would seriously question the judgement of anyone who got bent out of shape over that.

                  Also, let’s not forget about the fact that this isn’t really work related. It’s celebrating people’s birthdays.

                5. EmmaLou*

                  Time and again, we’ve had on this very site, people’s feelings hurt because they didn’t get the same hoopla as others, for whatever reason. (Not that they are upset for “whatever reason” but that the reason for less hoopla changes.) If she felt like she was going have to do less, then she had the chance to go to her manager and say, “You know, I’m really bummed and worried about the Comb-Over King. I just don’t think I can invest the energy in this month’s birthday announcement as usual. Should we get someone one else, or will no one care?” She didn’t. She just gave it less. Horrible? No. Just not as good. And that can hurt people. So I’m standing by she should have given the same effort everyone else had had, handed it off or at least warned her boss.

                7. Been There, Done That*

                  C’mon already, everybody has a low moment on the job once in a while, be a little forgiving, people. It was an email; it’s not as if CW was in charge of planning the party and only brought in a bag of cheap cookies. And not trying to get political, but this presidential election was pretty intense. A lot of people I know (not just coworkers) felt wiped out the next day, regardless of whether the outcome was the one they wanted.

            3. Observer*

              Seriously?! If she’d been overtly hostile or had commented about it, sure. If she had failed to send the email, yes. But she wasn’t AS goofy as normal? Come on, this election was a legitimate big deal, and it’s not outrageous that someone might be having enough trouble adjusting in the immediately following days, to not be up to huge doses of light hearted goofiness.

    2. Sadsack*

      Wow. I feel bad for her because I found the election depressing, as well…but it didn’t keep me from doing my job. I mean, she did her job, maybe just not as enthusiastically as normal. Seems like taking that duty away from her was a jerk move though. Why not just tell her about it and ask her to be mindful of it in the future? Also, does anyone who was on the birthday list really care about this?

      As you can tell, I am sort of boggled by it all, too!

      1. ThatGirl*

        I very much doubt anyone who had a birthday this month really noticed. Generally they just care about the food, which had a good turnout. :)

    3. Catalin*

      Manager needs to grow up.
      Coworker might be relieved that she’s no longer in charge of this extra fluff work.

      1. ThatGirl*

        Yeah, I don’t think CW cares much about that particular little fluff duty, but the reaction seemed… extreme to me.

    4. Phoebe*

      I wonder if perhaps they supported different candidates? Still an extreme overreaction, but it’s all I can think of.

      1. ThatGirl*

        From what I know about them, yes – but again, CW didn’t say a word about the election in her email, although it’s possible she discussed it with other people in her area. I’m pretty sure she didn’t discuss it with her manager, though.

        1. Kelly L.*

          I had to read it twice to realize “said CW” meant “the aforementioned CW,” rather than “this month’s newsletter stated that CW was depressed about the election.” Once I parsed it, though, I think it was a huge overreaction.

          1. ThatGirl*

            Yeah, it’s not even a newsletter of any sort – it’s just an announcement of when the food day is and whose birthdays are that month. CW just put some fun facts in of her own accord.

          2. ThatGirl*

            And yes, I didn’t word that very well, I can see how you’d be confused – I did mean aforementioned.

            1. Kelly L.*

              Naw, you were fine, I just need more coffee!

              Anyway, definitely an overreaction. It’s like reprimanding someone for bringing in Tootsie Rolls for their candy bowl instead of Snickers.

              1. Elizabeth West*

                Agree–and what if she had done a bare-bones one because she was super behind on work? Would that still merit the manager yanking the task? Who cares as long as the announcement went out and had the pertinent info on it?

        2. Phoebe*

          Yeah, but a lot of people were really invested in their candidates this time, more so than I’ve ever seen before. So it wouldn’t really surprise me if this were the issue. I’m not saying it’s right by any stretch, but a lot of people seem to take an great personal offence to anything even resembling a negative comment on their choice.

          1. Phoebe*

            Alison, I apologize if my comment above qualifies as forbidden election talk. Please feel free to remove it.

    5. Is it Friday Yet?*

      This made me think of the party planning committee debacle from The Office. Remember when Angela was dethroned?

      1. ThatGirl*

        What’s funny is we do sell office/workplace supplies (way more than just paper, and way more than just office) and there are a lot of references to The Office at times. :) Thankfully the manager I mentioned is no Michael Scott.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      When work birthdays go bad, it’s usually in a spectacular manner.

      Okay first thing. The b-day coordination was not a key component of her job. For example, this is not a case where a boss took all the nursing work away from a nurse, OR a boss took all the accounting working away from an accountant.

      Next. The boss is either going to get sick of doing it herself or she will delegate to someone who will forget.

      Ironically, the manager could stand to look at how she processes her own upset. It sounds to me that Boss expects CW to be Susie Sunshine, when Boss can’t even be Susie Sunshine herself.

      Give it time, I think the job will come back to your CW eventually and your CW will have to decide if she wants it back.

      Personally, I think the boss is assuming people want to celebrate their birthdays and we know from reading here, there a plenty of people who do not. It could be that this year not many wanted to celebrate anyway.

    7. Zip Silver*

      I think it’s incredibly amusing that an election result is depressing enough to affect your coworker’s choice of clip art in an email about food.

      1. TG*

        Some people are genuinely concerned about their future ability to get things like health insurance and whether their children will be safe in the streets. Against that backdrop, things like clip art get really insignificant and I can see her not wanting to bother.

  5. Invoice Monkey*

    Long Story Short: How much am I allowed to push back against new protocol/software that is making my job take a lot longer?

    Long Story Longer: The main focus of my job is to process invoices. This includes updating our records of invoices received and paid. With our old protocol, we had software that was very easy and quick to update with information as the invoice when step by step through the payment process. They have recently updated with new software that makes it easier for gathering all the invoice data, along with other important data, into reports.

    However, this new software has been a real hindrance to me. Whereas it took literally seconds to add in new info on the old one, this one require way more steps to accomplish the same goal. Now I’m down to a three to five minute minimum to update a single invoice, which may not sound like a lot but it’s putting me way behind. It’s not because I’m having trouble with the system, the new software works perfectly and I learned it very quickly; it’s just that it naturally takes longer.

    My direct supervisor said that I should work with the supervisor in charge of the software (who is above me) to streamline it. And I have made suggestions that the software supervisor has implemented. However even with these changes, it’s just not the same. I truly can’t think of anything we can do with this new software to bring it up to speed. The only thing I can think to suggest is for me to continue with the old software, while adding completed payments in the new software at the very end (still time consuming but payments would get out at the previous speed again and still allow them to get the data they need from the new software).

    I don’t want to be the stick in the mud but this new software truly is hindering me at my job. Can I present this problem to the software supervisor to explain that it just doesn’t work as fast as before and it’s putting me behind in my payments?

    2. Dawn*

      Yeah totally! A good software supervisor (and it sounds like you have one since she implemented suggestions that you gave) will want the software to work well and benefit the end user.

      Be nice about it, but point out that in the new software it takes you much, much longer to do a task than it did in the old software. Definitely let anyone and everyone know that you understand the software, that you’re clear on what needs to be done, and that the bottleneck is not *you* but the *software* and be prepared to demonstrate exactly why and how it takes longer in the new software vs the old.

      1. trefoil*

        I’m implementing new software and this is exactly the kind of feedback we’re asking people to provide. If you have concrete recommendations to make it better (ie, don’t make me re-enter this data six times), that will be even better.

      2. College Career Counselor*

        Unfortunately, I’m skeptical that the Invoice Monkey is going to be able to make a case that others will listen to. I hope I’m wrong, however. Where I see this is in my spouse’s work with medical record entry (spouse works in a number of different locations, all of which have different digital data entry protocols, and all of which have been updated in the last 6-18 months). The problem is that NONE of them are developed for the benefit of the person entering the data (or even other medical professionals looking up said data after the fact). They’re all for the benefit of record-keeping (which is important, I realize) in back office functions elsewhere. So, the result is that something that used to take 20 minutes to do, now takes an hour. And everyone is supposed to maintain the same productivity.

        TL;DR: Invoice Monkey may have the best results when things are couched in terms of “lost productivity” AND advocating for entering the data in the system “after the fact.” Good luck.

    3. Xarcady*

      Can you pinpoint the problem areas? I’d go back to the software supervisor and see if she has any suggestions on how to reduce steps/combine things to speed things up. There’s probably someone, somewhere, who really knows the software and what it can do who can fix at least some of the issues.

      If that doesn’t work, then talk with your supervisor again. You can bring up using the old software as a potential solution, but don’t be surprise if that doesn’t fly–there could be some very good reasons why they don’t want to use that anymore.

    4. NW Mossy*

      What you’re experiencing boils down to less of a software failure and more of a change management failure. It’s clear that someone told you why the change was being made (to facilitate reporting), but not why that outcome is important and whether or not those reports are so valuable that they are willing to accept the trade-off of slower processing time. Maybe the reports are vital because they resolve an audit finding or can help with detection/prevention of extremely expensive mistakes, and spending more time on the part of the process you handle is completely fine.

      Instead of going to the software supervisor, you need to go back to yours and say “I understand we’re using TortoisePay now to help with reporting, and I know we’ve talked before about how it’s a slower process to add information. I implemented all the suggestions I got from Fergus and the software works just like it’s supposed to, but it’s still significantly slower and we haven’t been able to come up with an approach that matches the previous speed. This means that I’m not able to process as many in a given day, and I’m concerned that this will result in [insert foreseeable negative consequences here – late payments, missed deadlines, additional charges for fixing these, etc.]. I’m not sure if this was already considered by [whoever decided] and they concluded that it’s OK for us to adjust our expectations to [reasonable turnaround time with new software], or if this is an issue we need to work on before it has a negative impact on [important people]. What should we do to tackle this?”

      1. Beezus*

        It’s not just later payments, either. Invoice Monkey has X hours a day to enter Y number of invoices – that’s her capacity. If her processing time per invoice has slowed from A to B, then the max number of invoices she can process per day is X/B. Those are the variables. It sounds like she’s done what she can to reduce B, and she’s established that B is always going to be greater than A. If B can’t change anymore, then either X needs to change – more time needs to be devoted to invoice processing – or Y, the number of invoices needs to be reduced. If neither of those happens, she’ll continue to get further and further behind.

        So fixing this might involve freeing up more of Invoice Monkey’s time to work on invoice processing, or hiring additional help, or assigning an existing employee to help Invoice Monkey – those are all ways to increase X. Or it might involve reducing invoices, but that’s usually tougher. They might be able to work with suppliers to change up their terms – if they currently get truckload shipments with multiple orders from one supplier, they might be able to get the supplier to switch from one invoice per order to one invoice per shipment, for example, or get a supplier to send one monthly invoice for something that they’re billing incrementally throughout the month.

        I don’t think going back to the old software is a solution – it might get your payments out faster short-term, but the overall entry time per invoice is probably not better (unless the old software autopopulated stuff that Invoice Monkey is entering manually now). Also, there’s a good chance the company doesn’t want to bear the cost of licensing and maintaining two pieces of software for the same purpose. And unless the overall entry time per invoice is low enough for Invoice Monkey to keep up, s/he’s going to keep lagging further behind on entries, which means the data they want out of the new system is going to take longer and longer to appear, and that’s eventually going to be unsustainable.

      2. a.n.o.n.y.m.o.u.s.*

        This. Mossy know what’s up. I’ve been involved tangentially with software implementations, and I have seen this happen before. Sometimes the Powers That Be decide that the benefits a new software brings are worth causing someone else’s job to be more tedious. But it seems like they often fail to communicate that to the people whose jobs have suffered. This may be what’s happening with your job, or it could actually be a software implementation failure. Try following Mossy’s advice first and then go from there.

    5. The Cosmic Avenger*

      I agree, this is an issue not just for you but for the company as a whole, as it affects your productivity and slowing you down probably slows down any downstream processes (anything that depends on your invoice work).

      Ask to schedule even 15-30 minutes with the supervisor in charge of the software and go through the invoice entry process in the old software and the new software. They should be able to figure out the best technical solution for fixing the issue, but seeing it in action will make sure that they understand where exactly the problem lies.

    6. One Handed Typist*

      Please let the software supervisor know! That’s his job. But be sure to frame it in quantifiable data. “Under our old software, I was able to process invoices in X minutes. Under new software, it’s now Y minutes. This is delaying me enough that instead of processing 200 invoices each day, I’m currently only processing 75. This is causing most invoices to go out a full week later than normal, which is delaying our payment. While I’m sure some of the delay is simply getting to know the software, the processes are much more cumbersome with New Software and even with expert level processing, I would never be able to reach 200 invoices again.”

      My University switched email/calendaring providers in 2010 and awarded a 7 year contract to the new provider. Apparently there were minimal opportunities for employees to play with the new provider’s software before it was rolled it. Instantly there were hundreds of complaints from benign to severely impactful. I manage a distribution list and I cannot simply update the entries; I have to delete the ENTIRE list and rebuild it. I’m also unable to Map Fields so I have to rename all the fields before I import or I have to manually enter all information. It’s a nightmare. Luckily the University notified the provider that we would NOT be soliciting another quote from them. We are switching fully to Google systems in the next few weeks.

    7. Burn Out*

      You know, I found myself in this exact situation at my previous job and I absolutely could not get my immediate supervisor to recognize the problem. The software supervisor was always apologetic and claiming that someday down the road they would iron out the problems and to just be patient. He was basically useless. The new software provided information that was not recorded by the older system it replaced and it did have the potential to provide benefits to management, but it did nothing for the people on the front lines.

      When I pushed back and brought up the problems, I was portrayed as being a “stick in the mud” and as being “resistant to change”. I was not resistant to change so much as I was resistant to negative change that made my work life a lot more difficult. I fully support positive change, but this wasn’t one. I couldn’t even get my supervisors to recognize how the changes made my job more complex and made me less productive. They refused to reassign any job duties, although every once in a while they’d get someone to help with filing. (That was actually helpful and appreciated, but it was a band-aid on a hemorrhage and didn’t happen consistently or often enough to make a significant difference in my workload.)

      As a consequence of the new software I kept getting nasty emails and phone calls from branch offices claiming that I had not entered certain information in the system. Actually, I had posted the information but the people in the branch offices had no idea how to access it. (There had been a training for branch supervisors, but they never told their underlings how to use the new software.) Of course, the branch people always called when there was no one at the computer help desk and it was always an emergency.

      After having to stop my work and talk several people through how to use the new system to find the information they needed, I typed up a 2-page cheat sheet that provided instructions for them on how to access the information they needed. (It was really quite well done, if I say so myself.) I emailed it as an attachment to all of the branch offices and things quieted down for about 3 months, until someone at a branch office forwarded the attachment to the help desk. Then the entire I.T. department jumped on my back about it.

      Even though I expressly noted that the instructions were subject to change and had dated the document, they were especially concerned that at some point in the future the instructions might change. They were also upset because at some point in the future the information was going to be added to their help screen (although it never was and most people couldn’t even find the help button that would activate the help screen). My supervisors refused to support me and I had to apologize and promise not to provide instructions to people at the branch offices.

      The whole thing turned out badly. I don’t know how you can present the problem in such a way as to make the software supervisor improve the system or to make your supervisor realize that you are no longer able to be as productive as you once were.

      1. catsAreCool*

        You “had to apologize and promise not to provide instructions to people at the branch offices.” This is truly terrible!

    8. Jen*

      I work in product development- this is exactly the info the team that built the software needs. I now run my department and the people under me that are the strongest take input like yours (the user) and use it to tweak the product.

    9. Drew*

      No advice, but I do have sympathy. Several years ago, I used to get a single massive nicely formatted spreadsheet with lots of numbers that I needed to do some forecasting. We upgraded our business software package and everything was fine except that they removed the option for that precise report — now I get two separate spreadsheets, each with about half of the information I need, and both requiring some careful massaging to make the data useful to me. Argh!

      (We contacted the company to ask about having that report reinstated in an update; their response boiled down to “Oh, we didn’t think anyone ever used that, so we just deleted it.” Argh squared!)

  6. Future Analyst*

    Any tips for handling a transition to a new manager if I feel like it’s somewhat of a demotion? I’ve been in my role for about 3 months, and last Friday my current manager told me that she’s going to have another manager handle our department. My current manager is a Director of Teapot Knowledge, and the new manager is at a lower level (Manager of Teapot Manuals Content). Even though it makes sense from an organizational level that someone at the Director level wouldn’t be directly involved with my work, I can’t help but feel like this is somewhat of a demotion. Nothing from either manager has indicated that they think my work is lesser (in fact, in the same conversation in which she told me about the new manager, my current manager said that she’s very happy with my work thus far). Any tips for handling this professionally, and not letting me feelings of being demoted get in the way? I know logically that that’s not the case, but the rational side of my brain isn’t currently winning out.

    1. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

      Stop thinking of it as a demotion. It’s not.

      I am soon to be reporting to my bosses’s boss due to logistical reasons. I’m not viewing that as a promotion.

      1. Rachel*

        This x 1000. It sounds like this has absolutely nothing to do with you or your work, especially since your position isn’t changing.

    2. Dawn*

      I mean… it’s really not a demotion at all! In fact, I would say it’s a net gain for you, because now you have a manager who can take time to really get to know you and your work, whereas someone at the Director level is going to be juggling so many things that she most likely wouldn’t have time for 1:1 meetings and gaining a deep appreciation of what you do.

      1. Dawn*

        Also hey, you’ll still have a working relationship with the Director which could be super valuable when she goes back to handling mostly Director duties, that’s a plus too.

      2. Nerfmobile*

        Yes, not a demotion. This has been happening a lot in my particular organization lately. Last spring we had a reorg which meant that my VP went from having about 350 employees under her to having over 700. And therefore my director’s org went from about 40 to about 80. And my director decided she couldn’t handle having 12 managers report directly to her so she moved 4 to senior manager roles and the other 8 now report to one of those senior managers. It’s not a demotion for any of the people now under those senior managers, we just needed a new organizational layer to handle the numbers.

    3. NACSACJACK*

      It really isn’t a demotion. Your job title and duties didn’t change. As you point out yourself, a director really shouldn’t be your supervisor. A layer of management was missing. I reported to a director for over two years. That was a nightmare. He had 20-25 people reporting to him and frequently missed 1×1’s.

      That said, transitioning to new manager – think of it as onboarding with a new company or a new job. Be ready for change. Be prepared to ask questions about change. Be willing to accept that this person may not treat you the same as the prior person.

    4. Phoebe*

      Think of it more like adding a layer to the organizational chart of your company. It doesn’t so much push your position down the organizational chart as it does push your Director’s position further up the chart, if that makes any sense.

  7. Moonlight & Misery*

    So the post about the “self-inflicted illness” really hit me last night. I gave blood at Real Job’s blood drive and then got incredibly sweaty, dizzy, and nauseaus. I’ve been giving blood several times a year for almost 10 years, and this is the first time this has ever happened to me! The Red Cross volunteers had me lay down with ice packs until I felt better, but I ended up calling in to cleaning job. Boy, was I read the riot act! Why would I sign up to give blood on a day that I had to work for them? Didn’t I know that they were already short staffed? Was I sure that I couldn’t make it?
    That totally reversed my opinion about that article. I was definitely riding the negative train on the employee who put herself in that position before it happened to me.

    https://www.askamanager.org/2016/11/when-an-employee-misses-work-with-a-self-inflicted-illness.html

    1. anon04*

      I think the difference between what happened to you and what happened to the previous LW’s employee comes down to predictability. You have been donating blood for 10 years with no ill effects so you could not have reasonably predicted that you would feel bad after donating blood this time. However, in the LW’s employee’s situation, the person was barely eating or drinking. It is reasonable to predict that such behavior will produce ill effects like dizziness and lack of energy. I’m not saying the LW should totally drop the hammer on their employee, just that the employee could have predicted the symptoms ahead of time whereas you could not have.

      1. Murphy*

        Yes, that’s how I’d explain it. There’s an illness that was technically preventable and then there’s one that you knew would arise (i.e. you always had that reaction to drawing blood).

      2. neverjaunty*

        Eh. If you’ve been giving blood for a long time, then you know that there can be adverse effects anytime; nobody is immune from “I didn’t know it but I was coming down with a cold” or “guess the years are starting to catch up with me”.

        I don’t think Moonlight & Misery did anything wrong, btw, but I do think it’s a bit silly to draw very careful lines to say “oh but YOU aren’t like that”.

      3. The Unburnt*

        I agree with Murphy on this one in that the difference in the two illnesses is that the OP knew what to expect and you did not.

        Also, to be perfectly honest, the two activities that caused the illness couldn’t be more different. The OP was competing in a body building contest and you were donating blood. Whether it’s right or wrong, I’m more inclined to show lenience to someone out sick because of donating blood, which is a charitable act that saves lives, rather then someone out sick because they chose to partake in a dangerous personal hobby. Not eating or drinking? Dangerous personal choice that will OF COURSE effect your work and personal responsibilities.

        1. Honeybee*

          Well, as multiple people were point out in the comments of that article, maybe the OP’s coworker didn’t know what to expect. Maybe she’d never had that reaction before or it was her first bodybuilding competition. People were making a lot of assumptions about her intent and previous experience that were never mentioned in the letter.

          On the other hand, one could reasonably argue that a person who gives blood regularly knows that there is a possibility they will have a negative reaction to that donation, as it is very common, even if they personally never had one before. (I don’t agree with that argument, but you could argue that!)

          And also, I don’t think we should feel comfortable passing judgment on the nature of people’s physical activities, as that can go south really fast.

          1. GovHRO*

            The bodybuilder could have eaten something, when they started to feel poorly and alleviated some or all of the problem and gone to work. Yes that would have impacted their competition. Instead the bodybuilder moved forward with the restrictive plan and impacted work. Choice.

            In your blood donation–you’re surprised by your reaction, which is the difference. Moving forward I’m guessing you won’t donate before a work shift.

  8. Brigitha*

    My 3 month review is coming up next week. I was on a ‘training’ period up till now, and I’ll hopefully get the previously agreed upon salary bump. I will also be making a number of recommendations including: don’t text people after 8pm, stop paying for expensive apps you can’t be bothered to use properly (and when you try, you text me after 8pm because you can’t remember how to use it), and let’s make an employee handbook so the next person won’t have to learn everything the hard way like I did. Wish me luck!

      1. Catalin*

        Remember the intern who got all the interns fired over a recommendation/petition? 3 months and just out of your probation/training period is NOT the time to be telling people they suck at their jobs and should do it differently. Curb the condescension/entitlement. A lot. Why?
        1) you’ve been there just a few weeks.
        2) you’re already asking for a raise
        3) It reads that you’re telling people who are peers or above that they’re clueless/not as brilliant as you are and you know better
        4) managers never want to hear that you think their clueless

        What can you do? It’s (probably, depending on industry) reasonable to request emergency-only texts after 8 p.m. It’s reasonable to discuss how the late night texts are impacting your work life balance. It’s reasonable to ask about creating a guidebook for new hires (but don’t phrase it as “You were chaotic and clueless when I came in”). It’s even reasonable, if you can do it diplomatically, to ask about staff-wide training on the confusing app.

        If I had a new hire (and yes, 3 months is still new) come to me in the way you’re describing, it would not end well. I’d be deeply concerned about how hire’s attitude is impacting the team and I would definitely remember hire as an immature upstart.

    2. No, please*

      Please don’t! No matter how good your intentions are, three months really isn’t long enough to make policy changing suggestions.

    3. Leatherwings*

      Yeah this is not a good plan. Three months in and just coming off of a training period isn’t the time to be making sweeping “recommendations”

    4. Lily in NYC*

      No no no don’t do this! The only one you can say is the one about the employee handbook, but you should say it very diplomatically and offer to help with it. Otherwise zip your lip.

    5. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

      Noooooo. I have been in your shoes and done what you are about to do and it suckkkkked for me.

      The end of a ‘training’ period is not a time to drop truth bombs. You need to wait until the employer wants to hear these things to suggest them. I.e, if they ask you want you think of the app!

      As for the employee handbook, if you are asked how your training went, it’s fine to say ‘I found it difficult to on board without written instructions, is there a way we could collect all the written policies into a new hire handbook?’.

      But yeah telling them how to run their business (by dictating when they speak with folks) or suggesting that they are so technically incompetent that they are wasting money on apps they aren’t using properly (no matter how true) is a great way to turn a good employee-manager relationship sour.

      In all “suggestions” ask yourself, is this the hill I want to die on?

    6. NW Mossy*

      Oooof, that sounds like a not-great plan. At 3 months, you’d be better served approaching this as a new person seeking to understand why things are the way they are, because that’s exactly what you are. You can reframe some of your concerns in that light (“I’ve seen us struggle with using FancyApp – can you tell me a little more about why we’re using it and what we’re hoping to gain?”), but going in guns blazing is likely to tag you not as a motivated problem-solver but a bullheaded newbie who doesn’t have all the facts to make a good assessment.

    7. Jean*

      OMG. This is making my work life flash before my eyes and I see myself doing all of these things in past positions because I thought I was being helpful. Gaaaah. (Hides head under desk.)
      Brigitha, an enormous thank you for educating me with your question.

      1. Tuckerman*

        :-) Or, we could just add to it what we wish we could say at our yearly reviews.
        I’d add: If the company does not replace kitchen sponges more frequently, somebody’s going to get Ebola.

        1. AMPG*

          Just microwave them once a week! It’s basically autoclaving them (make sure to wet them thoroughly first so as not to cause a fire). No need to throw out perfectly good sponges. :)

          1. Tuckerman*

            I’m definitely on board with that. Except. This sponge has been sitting there for at least 6 months, possibly a year (it’s not my department, but a general use kitchen for the whole company).

      2. LJL*

        In that case, it is kind of funny…but you’d be surprised at how many people have actually done that. :-)

      4. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

        ROFL. This is nothing.

        I once made a comment on here about how “A lot of these comments remind me of the movie X”
        Except I forgot the “These comments part” and just posted “Remind me of movie X”

        I got like 40 message patronizingly explaining to me that movies and real life aren’t the same. There are a lot of passionate folks here. Well meaning though.

    9. Grits McGee*

      Yeah, I’m going to echo everyone else and 100% recommend that you do not make those recommendations. At 3 months, unless you are a senior person who has been brought on specifically to give that kind of guidance, your approach needs to be Socratic (“I know that I know nothing.”)

      However, if you are invested in making those changes, there is potentially a way forward. Go to your 3 month review, say thank you for your salary bump, ask if they can give you any feedback on your performance so far, and thank them for that too. After your meeting, write down all handbook-y things you’ve learned, if only for your own record/satisfaction. Focus on doing good work and build a reputation as a reliable, sensible report and coworker.

      Then, after you’ve been there for a while and know the politics and personalities, you can go to your manager and say, “Lucinda, I think it would be really helpful for us to have an employee handbook and I know for me it would have really reduced the time I spent learning how to paint the glaze on tea pots. Would it make sense for us to have something more formalized to on board new staff? I’d be happy to take the lead on that, if it sounds like a good idea.*”

      *I can almost promise you that if you aren’t prepared to take on the responsibility of writing the handbook yourself, it will not be done.

    11. TootsNYC*

      This is the ONLY thing from your list that you should bring up.

      ” let’s make an employee handbook so the next person won’t have to learn everything the hard way like I did. “

      But you need to frame it differently.

      Make it be a goal you want to accomplish that they should then admire (and reward) you for.

      So: “I’ve been making notes during this period, and I’d like to develop a training manual and procedures sheets. It’ll be useful for me, and also for whenever we might need to train a substitute. Can I have that as one of my projects or goals to complete for next year?”

    12. Chaordic One*

      Yeah, don’t do this.

      But, for what it’s worth “your boss is a jerk!”

      If you’re up to it, you might start typing an employee handbook, so the next person won’t have to learn everything the hard way like you did.

  9. the.kat*

    Favorite pens? What does everyone like to use at work and who pays for it? My company has an account with an office supply store but I’m hesitant to buy my favorite kind of pens because I’m the only one who likes them. I have a penchant for fountain pens and (when I’m taking notes or personal writing) sparkly gel pens.

    1. ThatGirl*

      My favorite are PaperMate, but the boxes are hard to come by around here, we mostly get our house brand of pens which are cheaply made and tend to skip. So I usually make do with what we have lying around and hoard PaperMates if I see them.

      1. the.kat*

        We get branded pens that have the same penchant for skipping and I both hate them and can’t seem to lose them all.

      1. Lily in NYC*

        THIS ONE! Lifehacker rated it their favorite as well. I buy my own and bring them to work because they only give us those annoying uniball pens that refuse to write on post-it notes.

        1. Jean*

          >those annoying uniball pens that refuse to write on post-it notes
          Huh. I love uniball pens! For years I’ve been blaming their sticky-note refusals on something weird with the note paper.
          Not even halfway through the total (so far) of today’s Open Thread comments and I’ve already learned two things.

          1. Lily in NYC*

            And sometimes you can’t write in greeting cards with them either. I guess it’s some sort of coating on the paper.

        1. Sadsack*

          Sorry, forgot to answer that, yes, our office stocks them. We also stock the less expensive ball point pens.

    3. Tempest*

      I have a Swarovski pen where the end is both a memory stick and full of Swarovski crystals. The refills are small due to being half size to account for half the pen being a memory stick so they run out frequently. I paid for the pen and I buy my own refills as I chose to have the impractical flashy pen :) It writes like a dream though and as most of my customers are not the sort to go in for sparkles and crystals they can’t wait to hand it back rather than try to walk off with it!

    4. AvonLady Barksdale*

      The only pen I like to use at work is a Pilot Precise, fine-point, blue. Yup, I’m picky. At most jobs I’ve had, the company paid for them. At my last job, I just brought them from home (I had them leftover from the previous job, where I’d worked from home and they told me to keep the pens, folders, and binder clips.) Don’t be hesitant! You’re still going to use them, so even if you’re the only one, it’s not wasteful. Also, in the grand scheme of things, these pens cost very, very little to the company. So don’t sweat it. If you’re feeling really weird, you can always ask the office manager or admin or whoever handles purchasing, but I would bet you wouldn’t be the only person ordering your favorite pens.

    5. Cordelia Naismith*

      I like Uniball Vision Elite and Pilot Precise V5. They both write pretty smoothly and are satisfyingly inky. The office pays for the Uniball pen. I’m not sure if we have the Pilot pens in the supply closet or not. The ones I have at work are ones that I brought myself because I happened to have some.

      2. Sydney Bristow*

        Pilot Precise V5 extra fine in blue is my go to. I have all the colors so I can color code things if necessary but prefer blue for everyday use. I’ve been using them for 20 years. My office doesn’t stick them so I just buy my own. Boxes on Amazon aren’t terribly expensive.

      3. PersistentCat*

        You’re my pen twin!
        Those are my favorites.
        I particularly love the UniBall Vision Elite Extra Fine Needle tips in blue, because then I can use them all over my controlled documents without anyone whining about them not being waterproof.

      4. So Very Anonymous*

        Oooh, I love Pilot Precise V5s but they are the only pen I’ve used that’s leaked after on an airplane. So when I travel I have to make sure to take my V5s out of my pen cases. (I…. have a problem with pens. I have multiple pen cases. And lots of favorite kinds of pens. PaperMate InkJoy 500s, looking at you… oh, and Staedter Triplus. But not for work).

        It’s pulling teeth to get supplies in general where I work (we have the saddest supply area you can imagine) but at some point someone got us boxes of my favorite cheap PaperMate blue medium stick pens and I’ve been hoarding those.

    6. Emi.*

      I like Pilot Precise pens, and my office stocks them. If they didn’t I’d just bring them from home because I never learned to use ballpoints without getting writer’s cramp. :P

      1. AvonLady Barksdale*

        YES. I’m so used to writing with my Pilots that I can’t bear down hard enough on a ballpoint to get it to write properly. I have a light hand. I also have terrible, ridiculous, horrid handwriting, but that’s a different story.

        1. Kyrielle*

          …I am going to guess that I should never try this pen, given that I have driven the ball *up into* a ballpoint pen more than once because of how hard I push…. (Although admittedly not in years and years, but I don’t buy the type my Dad always had around, and if the office supplies them, I don’t take that kind. I have never done it to the sturdier ones.)

      2. LA Gaucho*

        I’m going to order these write…right now! Fine and Extra Fine.

        I am an office supply junkie. As far as pens go I have (in order of current favorites) TUL fine and med tip, Foray Gelio in medium, Pilot Fine Better Retractable, Zebra Z-Grip Med, stupid Bic in BU3 in 1.0. My absolute favorites are from a drug company whose pens looked like rocket ships. Fun to look at and my writing looked great.

        My agency has a use it or lose it policy when it comes to office supply funding so at the end of the year we always have to order like crazy. I do NOT feel bad ordering the fancier stuff at the end of the year, otherwise we get less money next year and no one wants that.

    8. NarrowDoorways*

      I neeeeeed Pilot razor point very fine red pens. I’m an editor and sometimes there’s a lot of changes to make on a paper, but not a lot of room, so I need the small point. I also need the red color to stand out from the ink of the doc.

      Unfortunatly, though I asked our office manager to get them, the last two times he tried, the Staples we order from delivered Pilot red markers. I HATE them. I’d buy the right ones myself but they’re $20 a box!

      1. Amber T*

        <3 <3 <3 Pilot Razor Point! We stock them in blue, black, red, and green. Purple was discontinued :( (I use purple Papermate Flair which is *similar* but definitely not the same).

        I never cared about pens and the like before I started using these – now I can't use anything else at work without getting grumbly.

        (I love office supplies. My desk is currently stocked with at least a dozen different types of post its, different colors and shapes, different size paperclips and binder clips, highlighters of every color… and yes it all gets used!)

        1. Girasol*

          Oh, yeah, Flair or Pilot Razor Point. The first for being assertive, the second for being precise. I buy my own and take all the fun colors home so I can maintain the illusion of a staid professional character.

    9. Terra*

      I like the Papermate Ink Joy line because they’re the only pens I’ve found that seem to write whenever I need them too without coaxing. Specifically I tend to buy the 700RT ballpoints (white exteriors) but they have a few different kinds including ones with “quick drying” gel ink if that’s more your style.

      2. FrozenUpNorth*

        My absolute favorite. I hoard them, and buy my own. We’re at a nonprofit and I don’t know that we’ve ever bought pens for the staff. It’s a dog eat dog world for writers out there.

        1. Windchime*

          I like the Ink Joy gel pens, too. I was feeling sorry for myself awhile back and found a huge package of them at Staples with all the colors. So now I have them everywhere!

      3. Honeybee*

        The 700RT ballpoints with the white exteriors are my favorite. And yes, I use InkJoy for the same reason you do – they write smoothly from the first mark every time, and they never skip. Also, they are comfortable to hold.

    10. Red*

      I love Pilot G2 0.7mm pens in black. I am not in charge of ordering pens, and I’m not sure who is as we never seem to have any, so I just hoard them as they appear in my life. In a pinch, I brought one from home, but I don’t mind doing that at all. Work had serviceable blue Bics, I just hate those, so I brought my own.

      1. littlemoose*

        Seconded! Those are my favorites. My office doesn’t stock them, but I buy them and bring them in for myself.

        1. Red*

          My favorite coworker does, too! She actually picks on me for steadfastly refusing to use blue pens, but that’s another story!

      4. periwinkle*

        Thirded! Or fifthed? Love Pilot G2s, although my pen of choice is the 0.38 version since my handwriting is tiny and looks blobby with even a normal fine-tip size.

    11. Boris*

      I just pay for my own pens – it’s easier. I use fountain pens almost exclusively (including glittery inks!) and so just keep a good stock of cheap biros around for my light-fingered colleagues! I like writing, I like the sensory pleasure of writing with proper ink and so it’s worth it for me to spend my own money on office supplies.

      1. the.kat*

        Ack! A person after my own heart. I buy cheap fountain pens because I have a tendency to lose them, but there’s just something about the nice scratch, scratch of a fountain pen.

      2. HeyNonnyNonny*

        Yes to fountain pens! I use a nice enough one that is distinctive and guaranteed unstealable. It’s so satisfying to write with.

        1. LavaLamp*

          I enjoy fountain pens, but after someone went to use one of them and broke it and didn’t tell me, I don’t keep them at work. Seriously, I opened the pen and had black. Ink. Everywhere.

          Thusly, it’s Pilot g2 .7 or a Pilot Precise V5 Extra Fine.

      3. Aurion*

        Yup! I use a Levenger L-tech 3.0 at work inked with Lamy blue. It’s a thicker line than I would like, but the thickness and the blue makes it pop out against anything I’m writing on.

        At home (not that I write much at home), I write Pilot Metropolitans in Fine (which is like an extra fine).

        I think Mike C. keeps like 6 fountain pens in work rotation. Mike?

        1. Mike C.*

          Oh yeah. Pilot Metros are the “free bag of crack” of the FP world – they’re around $15, look and feel much more expensive, fits lots of different hands and come in a ton of colors.

          I was able to grab a Pilot VP for around 70% off retail on Amazon a while back (blue with gold trim) and that pen is an absolute treat to use. Also, my coworkers haven’t killed me yet for the clicking sound it makes. :D

      4. FiveWheels*

        Boris, any favourite inks? I love Private Reserve Electric DC Blue, and I’m on the lookout for other sheening or glittering inks.

        1. Mike C.*

          I’ve had a lot of luck with the J. Herbin 1670 Anniversary ink series if you’re looking for glittery inks. I’m also a fan of the Noodler’s brand – just be aware that for him it’s sometimes a form of political activism and that he fills the bottles RIGHT UP TO THE TOP.

        2. Dangerfield*

          I also love the J Herbin anniversary inks – Emerald of Chivor is beautiful. The Diamine Shimmertastic range is a lot of fun too. I’ve got Brandy Dazzle, Moon Dust and Shimmering Seas in pens at the moment and they’re beautiful.

      5. Callietwo*

        I’m a fairly new convert to fountain pens- I started with the Pilot varsity, bought a Pilot Metro Pop Retro (not bad) then added a Lamy Safari (fine point tip still seems thick to me). Then I bought a Bexley Imperial. I.am.in.love.

        What inks do you prefer? Glittery ink for my pens??? I prefer the fine point tips, will this ink work?

        1. Mike C.*

          I think you’ll have better luck with a wider nib for the glittery inks. Luckily those are really inexpensive for a Lamy.

        1. HeyNonnyNonny*

          Untrue! I use Lamy ink with a medium nib and it actually rubs off on my hand less than the typical ballpoint. (For that matter, I get more ink on my hands refilling my cartridge than when I write…) Play around with inks and I bet you’ll find a fast-drying one that works for you.

        2. NotVerySinisterLefty*

          I am a left-handed fountain pen user, and I’m here to say it can work. Narrower nibs help (I have small handwriting so I’d use those anyway), and there are dryer inks that can be used. Favorite ink – Diamine Ancient Copper. SO nice. I’d recommend checking out Goulet Pen’s YouTube channel, they have videos galore on subjects like this.

        3. Mags*

          Echoing the others. You just need to use a faster drying ink, and you will be absolutely fine using fountain pens.

        4. Mike C.*

          The guy who makes Noodlers got pissed off at the Federal Bank’s policy of quantitative easing, so he made a few quick drying inks named after Ben Bernake in protest.

      7. Mags*

        Same here. On rare occasions I will use a nice Japanese gel pen. But I have dozens of fountain pens I rotate between. It’s very much worth the expense to avoid the headache of terrible office ballpoints!

    12. Manders*

      This is weird, but I can’t write legibly with anything but Sharpie fine-tipped pens. I’ve tried just about every other type of pen and everything ends up as an inky, messy scrawl. When I work in offices that have one standard type of pen they order in bulk, I bring my own Sharpies from home.

      The only other writing implement I can use and still produce legible writing is a mechanical pencil. I think it has something to do with the size and weight of the writing implement + the amount of pressure you have to apply to write, something even slightly off is just no good for me.

    13. Jessie*

      Pentel EnerGel with liquid gel. Work pays for them. I get red and blue. (I’m left-handed so I usually can’t use wet ink pens or I get ridiculous smudges – these pens are smooth and glide similar to wet ink pens but the gel ink does not smudge. Win!)

      1. Ann O'Nemity*

        Yes! The Pentel EngerGel Needle Tip 0.5 is my absolute favorite. Comfortable to hold and quick drying.

        My work pays for them.

      3. Hlyssande*

        Oooh, thanks for the tip!

        I’ve got purple Pentel RSVP RT’s at work right now, but I’ll try the EnerGel the next time I buy pens.

    17. tink*

      I love the new Papermate InkJoy pens. They write incredibly smoothly, come in great colors, are extremely affordable, and have a comfortable-to-hold triangular body. I’ve had a few people ask me about them when I’ve used one to sign paperwork, etc. while out in public.

    18. HRStella*

      PaperMate Ink Joy Gel 0.7. It’s a nice visible ink with a good line thickness and it’s a fast drying gel pen. It’s wonderful if you can swing the expense. I, unfortunately, have to buy my own, but it’s totally worth it.

    19. MsCHX*

      We’re a small company with a tight fist. I don’t find it to be a bad thing because we are paid REALLY well and have good benefits. So what’s available in the supply room is what’s available. At some point someone decided Zebra gel pens were “it”. We get them in blue, black and red. They bleed like crazy.

      Because I have an office I buy nice pens as they’re less likely to go walking. I like the Papermate gel pens because they don’t run/bleed.

      1. WellRed*

        We are a small company getting really tightfisted. I have a regular monthly task that I need to use mechanical pencils for. We have gone from boxes of the papermate ones to staples brand and the erasers make a huge black mess. I finally complained to the office manager. Her solution? I can use the big gun eraser on her desk. I’m going to have to buy my own.

        1. miki*

          I highly recommend Pentel Hi-Polymer eraser. (I use mechanical pencil 0.9 mm). You can buy it for $0.52 at Officesupply . com or a pack of 4 for $1.47 at Target.

        2. Lore*

          Weirdly, the corporate Staples catalog seems to have ceased to stock the PaperMate mechanical pencils that I rely on. I still have a couple and I guard them with my life, but I’ve been forced to order some Pentels as backups.

        1. Ninja*

          Muji pens are the best. I have a lot of them in different colours. No mess, no running, and a lovely fine point.

    22. I order the pens...*

      Finding a pen everyone likes that is QA acceptable is a pain so I keep 3-4 varieties in the supply closet.

      “Special” orders taken within reason for folks not involved in product documentation. A box of a dozen pens for less than$15 is reasonable and lasts 1 person more than a year if they keep track of them.

      Nope, order your own:
      -High priced single pens (even with refills)
      -Intended use is for anything other than company purposes

    23. Q*

      We have to supply our own pens so everyone buys their own. Most people only keep the one pen they are using on their desk so there is not a problem with pens going missing.

    24. Sibley*

      Please, please don’t regularly have sparkly gel pens at the office. Gel pen – fine. Sparkly – no.

      Unless of course your office culture is really ok with it, but in every office I’ve worked in, you’d be considered immature. Even if you’re not.

      1. the.kat*

        Thanks for you thoughts on this. I am careful to use my most juvenile pens when I’m alone in my office working on things that will have to be rewritten/typed before anyone else sees it. No one gets things from me written in sparkly gel pens.

      2. Callietwo*

        :) Our office culture is that we bring out the coloring pages and pens/pencils for staff meetings and the shinier and glittery the better. We have to buy our own of course, because we’re a state govt office and anything beyond the very basic pen is not on the allowed list for purchasing. Not joining in means you’re a stick in the mud (we have a couple) but it’s fine.

        Supposedly, studies have shown that people that doodle and draw in color retain more information, so it was the powers that be that started providing printed designs to color during trainings and we just took it further.

    25. Trout 'Waver*

      I have noticed a positive correlation between people who have strong opinions about pens and people who excel at their jobs. So go ahead and unapologetically order what you want.

      1. Callietwo*

        :) I am enamored with pens & markers of all stripes- I have a huge box at home for all my different pens and in looking at my desk, I currently have 5 cups scattered on my desk counter. There is one cup which my clients can reach which are filled with generic stick pens.

        My favorites really depend but for general writing, I prefer my fountain pens as I mentioned above. I like the Frixon erasable pens, highlighters and markers a lot too. These babies are amazing and I love the colors. I use these in my bullet journal. Others I like for my journal are Sarasa, G2, staedtler, sharpie, muji, tombow, inkjoy, Faber-Castell, Le Pen, Pigma Micron, Zebra, Uniball. Really depends on what look I want for whatever I’m doing at the time.

    26. JustaTech*

      Uni-Ball Power Tank RT. I need a substantial, reliable water-resistant pen for writing in the lab and these are my favorite. In the lab it’s got to be ball-point ink (liquid ink runs way too easily) and it’s got to be black. I had our lab manager order me a box back when everyone was allowed to ask for specific pens and it hasn’t run out yet!

    28. If My Cat Were a Human*

      Uniball Jetstream. As a lefty, I need something quick-drying or otherwise everything smudges and gets all over my hand. Love, love, love this pen. My office lets me order my own supplies, so I have a box of them all to myself.

      1. Danae*

        The Jetstreams are my favorite! Perfect for lefties and people who get hand cramps while writing. (Also expensive.)

        I haven’t worked for a company that provides office supplies in years, so I buy all of my own pens. If I’m going to spend my own money on pens, I’m going to get the ones -I- like.

      3. Salyan*

        Yes! I worked in an office supply store for a season, and came out loving these as well. I purchase supplies at my current job, so I’ll order these for myself on the company bill – but I guard them jealously. I have been known to chase my pen down when it disappears, and my current one is labeled with ‘Salyan’s Pen’.

    29. AngtheSA*

      I love Uniball Signo, the multi colored pack. My company paid for them (i think it cost them about 15.00 for 10 pens. . I love them!!!!

    30. Applesauced*

      I love super fine point pens – like .4 mm. My favorite is Uniball Signo micro point, but they only make the micro in basic colors, so I have Muji’s .38 for variety.

    32. FiveWheels*

      Fountain pens at home, only, I won’t use anything else if I can help it because of hand pain.

      At work I use a V5 rollerball and it’s amazing how much more comfortable it’s made me. I might start using fountain pens at work too.

      I have several fountain pens, but the two which are most comfortable for long periods are the Lamy Safari and Platinum Preppy. Both cheap, but very very light.

      1. FiveWheels*

        Oh and I buy them myself – I could argue I need special pens for medical reasons, but there would probably be a full on riot if Special Pen Privileges became known.

        1. Mike C.*

          I would love for a company to buy a bottle or two of ink for company use. That would seem reasonable if you worked somewhere with quirky benefits.

          1. FiveWheels*

            I can only imagine the chaos, there would be someone who left a mess, or contaminated the ink, or left the top off so it dried out, or stuck the top on.

            And I can already hear the cries of “FiveWheels, can you fix my nib?” SHUDDER!

              1. Aurion*

                No one touches my inkwell at work. Well, except for that time I just put lotion on my hands and realized that I needed to refill my pen. Then my coworkers can open the bottle for me.

                Otherwise? Mine, all mine! ;D

    33. Mike C.*

      YES FOUNTAIN PENS! :D

      I’m currently packing a TWSBI 540, TWSBI 700 (Blue) and a Pilot VP (Blue/Gold trim). What are you currently using?

      1. the.kat*

        I’m new to fountain pens, so I don’t have a ton, but I’ve gone through two batches of the Platinum Preppy in various colors and am looking for where to go next.

        1. NotVerySinisterLefty*

          Allow me to suggest a Lamy Safari or a Pilot Metropolitan – the Pilots come in many different colors/nib sizes (and Pilot nibs are generally very very good), while the Lamys have easily-swappable nibs, if you want to change at some point, and have a very distinctive look. Both are inexpensive and readily available on Amazon.

      2. Callietwo*

        I splurged (for me!) on a Bexley Imperial in Purple Haze with a gold plated stainless steel nib in fine point. It is amazing!

        But I need to find inks, I am still pretty green on using refillable cartridges.

      3. CA Admin*

        I had a Lamy Studio until this time last year when you mentioned FPN. I have now fallen down the rabbit hole. So, thank you!

        Today I’m packing:
        Pelikan M215 F with Kyonoto Aonibi
        Sailor Sapporo Violet FM with Wancher Silk Road Violet
        Montblanc Mozart Doue M with Montblanc Irish Green
        Franklin-Christoph 45 Antique Glass MCI with Bung Box Omaezaki Sea
        Franklin-Christoph 45 Coco Pearl M Stub with Montblanc Irish Green
        Franklin-Christoph p40 Smoke & Ice F SIG with Diamine Blue-Black
        Pilot Metro M with Robert Oster Blue Denim

    34. Jane D'oh!*

      I prefer ultra fine, so I buy my own. My current favorite is the Pilot Hi-Tec-C gel pen in 0.4 mm.

      1. Chocolate Teapot*

        Uni-Ball Eye for me, although I was a bit sceptical at first as I do a lot of minute taking and like a finger grip.

    35. Talvi*

      I have a profound love for the Pentel Slicci pens. They’re super smooth to write with, and fine-tipped (0.4mm or 0.25mm, which is the best thing ever), which means my handwriting is actually legible and not indistinct blobs of ink!

      1. Photoshop Til I Drop*

        Using the Slicci 0.25 right now and loving it. A lot of pens this size start to rip the page, but the nib on the Slicci is smooth as butter.

    36. Gene*

      uni-ball Vision Elite in Blue/Black

      Work buys them for me by the box. One usually lasts me about a month, so a box is good for a year.

      1. Gene*

        Oh yeah, I also carry a Sharpie Ultra-fine point for things that have to be absolutely waterproof rather than water resistant. Work buys those by the case, not the box. There are lots of things in the lab and plant that need to be waterproof.

    37. LCL*

      Zebra Z-grip max. Available in red, blue, and black. Fat pen, and retractable. This is the kind I order for the office also. The office pays. If someone wants something totally different we will order them a box of whatever, but they have to do the work of looking online at the vendor catalog and snd me the info. There is always the deviant in every group that prefers gel pens or extra fine (shudder).

    38. SophieChotek*

      I love uni-ball gel pens (the waterproof and airplane proof kind).
      I also like the Pilot G2 0.7 quite a bit.

    39. Chaordic One*

      For everyday use I like the PaperMate WriteBros. Medium 1.0 mm with blue ink.

      But there are some tasks that can only really be done with a Sharpie Ultra Fine Point, especially the ones with red ink, but the black is great, too.

      My office does supply us with Ultra Fine Point Sharpies so I bring them from home. When I was let go from Dysfunctional Teapots, Ltd., I made sure that I took all my Sharpies with me.

    40. Honeybee*

      My company provides pens along with other office equipment, but I don’t really like theirs so much. I supplement with my own pens that I buy with my own money. I buy Bic Atlantis or Paper Mate Inkjoy pens.

    41. DArcy*

      I use a Lamy Safari fountain pen, paired with quick drying ink since I work outdoors in a city that tends to be rainy.

  10. New Girl*

    So this week, a man in the office suite next to my company’s put on so much cologne that it could be smelled on our entire floor! I ended up leaving work early because I had such a bad headache and was getting dizzy. I really felt for his coworkers.

    2. NarrowDoorways*

      A coworker in the cube next to me does this at the end of the day for his train ride home! Smothers the entire office in smell. I’ve placed a small fan on my cube wall to create a breeze that goes over my head and keeps the air moving in his direction instead of toward me. Helps a little….

      1. Phoebe*

        Why would he put on so much cologne before getting into a crowded, enclosed area like a train car? Is he trying to mask the smell of other passengers? Or just trying to get people to leave the car so he can have a seat?

        1. Sydney Bristow*

          I was on a really crowded subway this week and the woman sitting in front of me pulled out a bottle of something scented and sprayed it into her hands several times then rubbed it on her face. At first I thought it wasn’t scented…then was basically slapped in the face with the scent. There was nowhere to escape to! Luckily I don’t really have a bad reaction to fragrance but I’m sure others in my subway car did.

        2. BRR*

          In the summer I noticed a lot of people smelled on the train home. I think walking in the heat in business wear just didn’t work. So maybe he’s trying to combat that. It’s just not effective.

          1. FiveWheels*

            Yeah, for the most part I’d rather smell reasonably fresh sweat, than sweat AND something to cover it up.

      2. DG's gal*

        Is this something you could talk to your boss or HR about? Fragrances are banned in all our offices, and it’s in the handbook as well. I’m one of those unfortunate people with fragrance allergies and I’m thrilled with this rule.

        1. Jean*

          Can we connect offline? I would love to see that page from your workplace handbook (unless it’s propietary!). I don’t have time right now to set up an anonymous email address but I can come back much much later today (e.g. around 10 pm) with that information.

          1. DG's gal*

            It’s under the “Grooming Guidelines” and just says “Use of cologne, perfume, perfumed products (hand/body lotion, etc.), or after-shave is discouraged and if worn, should be minimal and not noticeable by others.” We have had a couple of repeat offenders here in our office though. However, one gal with the allergy had to go home sick because of someone ignoring this rule, their boss got HR involved, so it hasn’t happened again.

        2. New Girl*

          He doesn’t work with me. His company’s office is next to my company’s office. That’s what makes it even worse!

    3. AshK434*

      That’s the worst! People in my office spray so much perfume that they leave a scent trail wherever they go that lingers. That in combination with the crab cakes people heat up for breakfast leave me with a headache all day everyday.

      1. Coalea*

        I love me some crab cakes, but for breakfast? And reheated at work? No and hell no! I’m sorry you have to deal with that!

    4. Artemesia*

      We had a visiting colleague from the middle east who drenched himself in absolutely foul smelling cologne and the whole floor was saturated. I just didn’t feel I could approach him about it as a woman without any sort of management roll vis a vis him and asked the guy who sponsored him to take care of it. He wouldn’t do it for fear of hurting his feelings and because he felt cologne use was a cultural thing, so for 4 months I had to hide in my office with door shut or have a crashing headache. I feel for people who don’t have those offices to hide in. Most colognes for men really bother me unless they are used so sparingly that they are only noticeable up close and guys seem somewhat more likely to overdo it. This is something management should deal with and use whatever excuses they wish e.g. we have colleagues who have chemical sensitivities, or have allergies, or whatever.

    5. Purest Green*

      Ugh! I totally sympathize. A security guard and her scent aura came into my office a few weeks ago looking for someone who called for an unlock. Rather than leaving when she realized it had nothing to do with me, she stood there chatting on her walkie talkie, further miring her perfume into my office. I had to set up a fan and open the window to get rid of it before my sinuses exploded.

    6. DragoCucina*

      Is it an isolated incident or a pattern? I’ve had it happen where I tried a new cologne and it reacted oddly with my body chemistry. The scent wasn’t bad, just much more powerful than the norm. I had someone who unknowingly had a leak in her handbag from a small sample and it smelled. Probably didn’t happen with this person, but unless it’s a more than once problem I wouldn’t say anything.

    7. Bob Barker*

      I had this happen to me too — except it was my boss. with Axe Body Spray. In his office.

      I discovered his new habit by exclaiming in my own space, loudly, “Augh, what is THAT SMELL.” He promptly emerges from his office, smelling like THAT SMELL and does not say a word to me.

      For the record: Axe Body Spray smells like a mixture of acetone, fried electrical wiring, and sadness. In my defense, except for the sadness, those smells usually do indicate a reason to evacuate the building, so I was just being safety-conscious!

      1. LavaLamp*

        A coworker and I were just talking about our scent sensitivities the other day. All I can generally smell in most scents it’s formaldehyde; thusly I’m reminded of my experience seeing a medical cadaver. Not fun.

        1. Windchime*

          Most scents smell like bug spray to me. I always thought I was the only one! Once in awhile I’ll smell something good, but generally I can’t tell them apart. Sometimes they will actually trigger an asthma attack.

      2. Blueismyfavorite*

        I didn’t know adult men wore Axe. I thought only foolish teenage boys were attracted to that horrible stuff!

  11. TMA*

    I’ve started doing some freelance work, should that go on my resume and LinkedIn?

    Also, I started a website (it’s a blog, but it goes beyond, “Look at pictures of my family at Disneyland), should that go on my resume and LinkedIn?

    Are resumes and LinkedIn reserved for purely professional experience?

    1. Anna*

      Well, freelancing is professional if you’re being paid to provide a service you have knowledge of and can do skillfully.

      The blog you might not put on as “professional” because it’s not something you’re doing as work, is it?

    2. Red lines with wine*

      Freelancing *is* professional experience, so yes! Include your blog if it’s related to your industry.

    3. JLK in the ATX*

      I put a short 4-mos freelance gig on my resume and LinkedIn.

      I’m unemployed and while the work is not completely consistent with what I do, as a profession, I wanted to show that I was able to put myself out there (while unemployed) and is hireable, even for a short gig (that was product market research and I’m in non-profit, in data/stats/research)

      If the website is about you and your professiona, yes put it on your LinkedIn. Does it represent your graphic design, website development skills? If that’s the industry you’re in, sure. If it’s a hobby website, probably not.

      I treat my LI as an enhancement to my resume. It doesn’t read exactly the same as my resume. Some people misuse LI for personal (meme’s, family updates, personal rants) but I don’t. LI is only for professional development, whether creating your own brand, being a subject matter expert, or just wanting to be in the professional scene. Keep is business, not pleasure.

    4. TheCupcakeCounter*

      Freelance work yes
      blog – not unless is it is specific to your profession (such as a History of Teapots)

      1. Kimberlee Esq.*

        Eh, I would say that blogs are fine for LinkedIn if you feel they present a good picture of yourself. Probably not resume, but LinkedIn doesn’t have space issues, and a quick thing about a blog seems fine to me.

    5. Anon13*

      I agree with others, definitely include the freelance work, only include the blog if it is relevant, either because the content is relevant (i.e. the history of teapots example) or because the position you’re applying for involves blogging (and, even them, make sure it’s clear why you’re including it).

    6. Kate*

      I think the balance for whether to add something to LinkedIn has to be “does this improve my professional standing”. For example, I work in the financial industry and I also love to craft and have an etsy shop that is doing well and do shows twice a year or so, but that does not go on my LinkedIn profile because it would not improve my professional standing if someone was considering me for a job. So for your blog, I think if it’s mostly about your freelancing, add it, but if it’s something a customer might read and come away with a less professional impression of you then leave it off LinkedIn.

      You can always share the information at a later point in your relationship. All my bosses* and coworkers that are interested know I have an etsy shop. But they also know that’s my hobby and that it won’t interfere with my work obligations.

      *it was disclosed to be sure there was no conflict of interest, but two of the three have asked about it as a “how’s that hobby going” thing since then.

      1. TootsNYC*

        yep–LinkedIn is all about marketing yourself. So if it doesn’t help convey the image you want to portray, you shouldn’t put it up.

        if it does, you should.

    7. katamia*

      Definitely put the freelance work on. I’d say don’t put your blog unless it’s either relevant to your field or you’re looking for work that would somehow involve blogging, though.

  12. Not a manager*

    If you are in charge of a project, but the people on your team are peers (and you are not a manager) is it ever appropriate to say something about a team member’s personal life interfering with their work life and with the project?

    1. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

      As a fellow manager not a manager I would say no. I would bump it up to your supervisor that X person is struggling to achieve A, B, and C and let them determine cause or suggest actions.

      1. Not a manager*

        If this project was being overseen by my regular supervisor I would have no problem telling him. But this project is one that our executive management is overseeing, and they are several levels above me. I barely know them and our relationships are formal so I’m nervous about the thought of telling them.

        1. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

          Ask your manager how to proceed. He may go to the execs for you or suggestion you speak to the other peers boss or any number of useful ways forward.

        2. MsCHX*

          +1 for still going to your manager about it. You are correct that you should not bring it to the “several levels above you” executive management.

    2. Lemon Zinger*

      Yes, but I would talk to the manager about it. I’ve been in charge of training a coworker, and when her personal life issues started interfering with her job, I told our boss. I framed it like “I hate to bring this up, but I thought you should know…”

      1. Not a manager*

        If you don’t mind me asking, how did you get over the discomfort? (if there was any)

        These matters are very personal, and I’m uncomfortable thinking about how I know so much about this team member. If it wasn’t interfering with the project I would just ignore it.

        1. NW Mossy*

          The trick to getting past the discomfort is to focus less on the cause (the personal issues) and more on the impact (not meeting deadlines, failing to show up, poor quality deliverables, etc.). Your interest here is not to judge your peer or tell her to get her life right, but simply to tell her boss “Hey, Lucinda’s holding back the project because X, Y, and Z aren’t getting done. Can you help get her back on track?”

          1. SMT*

            Just seconding this: the issue isn’t her personal issues, it’s that X and Y aren’t being completed on time or up to standard.

            1. Not a manager*

              If the personal issues are actually coming into the workplace and creating problems, how should I frame that?

              (I appreciate everyone’s responses btw)

              1. Trout 'Waver*

                Give specific instances of the personal issues and the specific problems they created. “Ceresi had to unexpectedly spend an hour on the phone with her kids’ doctor, so she was unavailable for an important call from Client X.”

                Frame it as any other issue that is impacting your work. Like the copier being out of service, or deadline that you’re going to miss.

                1. Trout 'Waver*

                  Sorry, that sounded colder than I intended. You want to be compassionate towards someone going through personal issues. But you want to frame it as a problem that’s affecting work that everyone would benefit from having solved. Don’t get emotionally involved.

                2. Not a manager*

                  I appreciate your replies. I know it’s what needs to be done. My hurdle is just how personal the things are. I know you are right. It’s just going to be difficult to think of it as another, more mundane issue.

              2. Mongoose*

                Is this a security/safety issue–as in individuals who are not employees/not related to your project showing up at your workplace and derailing things? If so then it’s not a project problem, it is about work place safety. You’d want to do whatever it is your company has put in place about how to handle those things and it’s your security/safety as well that needs to be considered. Talk to your manager, asap.

                If not to that degree, I’d still echo all other recommendations to focus on the project impact vs. personal impact when bringing it to their manager’s attention. I don’t recommend going into the specifics of the personal issues–when the manager meets with the employee to discuss performance, the personal stuff will usually come out to some degree, but that’s not your role.

                1. Not a manager*

                  With going into all the details; this team member had a relationship with someone else who works here in a different division. This other employee’s spouse also works for the same company, at a different location. My team member’s spouse found out and outed the relationship. Both spouses filed for divorce and both are also suing the person their spouse cheated with as well.

                  All of this has brought drama, time off to deal with legal issues and gossip. I don’t know how to bring this up without bringing up all the personal drama.

                2. starsaphire*

                  Ouch. I don’t envy you having to deal with this.

                  As far as the gossip part goes, anytime you run across it, please speak up and shut it down. Redirect the topic to work if it’s during work time; if it’s lunchroom chat, redirect to sports or the weather or whatever, but put a stop to it every time.

                  As far as the work issues, stick to the quantifiable facts. In cases like this, where the office is already talking about the situation, no one will need to ask *why* Desiree took four to six personal phone calls a day for the past week, or why Humphrey’s productivity is down by 23%.

                3. Not So NewReader*

                  @ Not a Manager. I think you explained it very well here.

                  Remember you can’t tell a doc that your arm is broken WITHOUT saying that your arm is broken.

                  Honestly, your boss probably knows all this is going on and just wondering how much you will tolerate. Things that people think are so deeply personal, are usually something everyone knows anyway.

                  Just state the facts like you have here and then state how it is impacting your project. “Bob missed the last three deadlines and everyone had to scramble to cover.” or “Bob had 17 errors on his five page report and I had to have someone else redo it. Which took x hours and set us behind because blah, blah, blah.”

                  Remember it is not up to you to cover for other people who fail to carry their share of work.

        2. Lemon Zinger*

          Sorry for the late response. I waited for WEEKS before telling my boss because I wanted to see if my coworker’s behavior would improve. It didn’t; it got worse and made people uncomfortable, and she was making us look bad.

          I just reached BEC level and typed off the email once I’d had enough. I was really concerned about her fit on our small team, and I needed my boss to know to rectify the situation before Jane got comfortable.

    3. Future Analyst*

      Yes, but you don’t have to talk to them about whatever’s going on in their personal life: “Hi Fergus, I’ll need the TPS report by Friday at noon. Is that possible?” and if that’s not happening, “Hi Fergus, as discussed, I needed the TPS report by Friday at noon, and I didn’t receive it until Wednesday at 7. For this next week, do your foresee getting this to me by the deadline? If not, please let me know as soon as possible.”

      After that, it may be necessary to pull in Fergus’ manager/supervisor/whoever. But whatever’s happening in his personal life should not need to be addressed when discussing deadlines. Of course, if someone in his life just passed away and he’s having a rough time, or something similar, you could see if someone else could help ease his portion of the project, but again, I don’t know that you directly need to address what’s happening in his personal life– just address the work.

      1. Not a manager*

        The issue is that personal life is coming into work and interfering directly. So I can’t mention work without the personal coming into it.

        1. AMPG*

          Do you mean another person is coming into the office and interfering with their ability to work? That’s something you can still bring up as a work issue. Otherwise, focus on the outcomes, as others have stated. “Lucinda was dealing with a personal issue and so missed our last two team meetings, and now is behind on her deliverable.” Not, “Lucinda spent all morning on the phone with the principal of her kids’ school and so missed [blah blah blah].”

            1. Not So NewReader*

              Agreed with AMPG and DC.

              “We need you to put the phone down for a while and join us.”

              I am not sure why you keep saying this is coming into work, do you mean they are on the phone/computer arguing? Do you mean visitors are coming into your work area and arguing? Have threats been made?

              Any of these things need to be reported to your boss. I am not sure why you are hesitant to say something. It is not up to you to cover for other people’s choices. Start by saying, “I should have said something weeks ago, I thought the situation would die away but instead it has mushroomed out.”

    5. TootsNYC*

      Even as a manager, I wouldn’t say something about a team member’s personal life interfering.

      I -would- say something about their performance: “You are making mistakes” or “you are needing things repeated too many times” and maybe “you don’t seem to be absorbing the information you’re being given, and then work has to be repeated, and you don’t get started right away.”

      I wouldn’t mention their personal life at all. Nor would I speculate about the cause of their performance issue.

      I would simply say: “Here is the thing -related to work- that you are doing wrong, and I need you to do better.”

  13. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

    Losing My Hair!

    I am so stressed at work that my hair is falling out! I need help determining what my options are.

    I was promoted into a high stress senior position about a year ago. This is an individual contributore “subject matter expert” role and is the first of its kind in the company.

    The role has a lot of the same responsiblities as management, such as project managment, emergency coverage, process documentation and ownership, responsible for compliance with applicable laws and company policies, training new employees on these processes, etc.

    My salary is fair for the role, I enjoy my bosses, love my coworkers, and find my work incredibly fulfilling ….

    The PTO is competely inadequate for how stressful the role is though! I desperately need more time off. Unfortunately for the next 3 years I will only get 15 days off, with 5 mandatory holidays that leaves only 10 sick days and vacation time!

    That’s not enough downtime in this new role. I made it work before my promotion, but I am now getting physically ill due to my stress levels. My hair is falling out, I get sick all the time, I’ve lost weight, and I am generally just not thriving.

    I want to negotiate more PTO, but I am not sure how to approach this. This role is new to the organization, so I think feedback that the PTO policy is not working for it could be well recieved, but I don’t know what I need to bring to the table to achieve this or if it’s even really feasible.

    Anyone out there have advice or ideas?

    1. Emi.*

      I don’t have good advice about negotiating PTO, but do you have an EAP that could help you manage stress apart from that? Also, hair loss is sometimes due to an iron deficiency, so you could try a supplement. I’m sorry I don’t have anything that addresses your actual problem. :(

    2. Dawn*

      That sounds tough! First, HUGS! Second, if you like your boss and have a good rapport with them, sit down and explain what you’ve said here- that you love the work, your co-workers, the company, etc, but that with this new role you absolutely need more downtime so you can continue to bring 100%. Then talk about what you think it would take to bring you back to not being crazy stressed: an assistant? More PTO? Work from home one day a week? Every other Friday off? Flex time? Longer lunches? Etc etc etc.

      Since this is a brand new role your company has zero idea of what the day to day in this role looks like, so YOU can absolutely set that bar wherever you’d like! Be prepared to hear that company HR wouldn’t want to give out more PTO (for whatever stupid reason HR ever does stuff like that) so come up with a few backup plans that might work for you. Example of a backup plan: OK you’re going to take the week off between Xmas and New Year’s unpaid because you NEED a long break right now, and then starting next year you can have as much flex time as you like, so you can schedule regular de-stressing things during the week like massages, fitness classes, meditation time, long lunches, whatever.

    3. Cube Ninja*

      5 mandatory holidays (I assume these are company holidays, not statutory ones) and you’re required to use PTO for them? That’s absurd on the face of it. If mandatory, PTO shouldn’t be required – the company should simply offer those as paid days.

      That said, 15 days’ combined PTO for a senior leadership position is still very … stingy. I think a basic starting point would be “I’d like to see if it’s possible to revisit the PTO allowance for this position. As it stands, after the mandatory days I’m required to use PTO for, I’m only left with only 10 discretionary days for time away from work or unexpected illness. That makes it almost impossible to take meaningful amounts of time away from work to recharge, since I feel like I need to reserve most of my PTO in case I get sick.”

      From there, I’d do some research on what market comparable rates would be for similar roles and see how that stacks up. In my org for example, at a manger level, we have 10 paid holidays per year and get ~20 days’ combined PTO. Directors+ get an additional week or so of PTO.

      1. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

        Our leadership gets similar levels, but I am actually not on that “tier” since I do not have direct reports despite having several other management responsibilities. I get the same PTO package as every non-leader in the organization, the individual contributor package.

    4. H.C.*

      Eeek – 10 days PTO for sick & vacation sounds brutal. I would try the options Dawn suggested – flextime, work from home, etc. Failing that, you might have to “buy” your own time off (saving enough to make up for unpaid days – after you exhausted your PTOs) and negotiate enough of a raise next time around to help compensate for that.

      Also agree with Dawn on using your time off on whatever stress-reducing self-care that works best for you, be it yoga, meditation, going to a spa, weekend roadtrip, etc.

      Good luck!

    5. CMT*

      Is there a way you could frame it as asking for comp time? Like, if you have a few weeks where you’re working late every day, you get some amount comp time to use in addition to your regular PTO.

    6. Blueismyfavorite*

      Hair loss is sometimes related to low thyroid function, which can also make you feel tired and cold with dry skin and cause you to get sick more often.

      1. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

        Yeah. Thyroid problems run in my family. It’s the only thing they didn’t check when I was going into the doctor for this stuff. My yearly with thyroid check up is in Feb so I plan to just wait to test it until then since I have no time off and am super stressed at the idea of trying to make yet another doctor appointment.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Thyroid problems can be tied to long periods of stress.

          First make sure this is a job you want.

          Try to get yourself more PTO if you can. Maybe you can delegate out some responsibilities, or maybe you can get some assistance.

          When it comes to work problems themselves, look for new ways of handling recurring problems. Try to reduce the stress of the job itself. I say recurring problems because things that happen once are not always foreseeable nor preventable.

          But build a personal plan for rest/hydration/healthy meals to help you with the long haul.

    8. Troutwaxer*

      I do a lot of overtime, and sometimes I forget to make good use of my commute time for stress relief. This means I make it a point to turn off the news (and traffic) station, turn on either rock or classical depending on whether I need to vent or recharge, and sometimes call someone on the phone (using a bluetooth device) so I don’t start feeling isolated. I also know people who listen to audiobooks for the same purpose, and I understand that you can also get old-time radio dramas formatted for various audio devices.

      If you’re currently a user of traffic radio, the Waze app is a smartphone app which will give you the best route and navigate you around accidents. The people I know who use it are all very, very satisfied. Using it will free up your listening time in the car and make you able to use car time for stress relief.

      You might also benefit from scheduling some stress-relief activities. Obviously you have raised the stress level of your job, but have you raised your stress-relief game by actively engaging in a stress-relief activity? Even when I’m working lots of O.T. I make sure I make it to the weekly Dungeons and Dragons game, because the stress relief is worth the extra time. (Cleaving Orcs in twain with my broad-axe does wonders for my tension levels.) When Dungeons and Dragons is not available, spending fifteen minutes with a shoot-em-up game has a similar effect.

      One of the things I also benefited from recently is figuring out how to take the pain out of a very stressful physical job I do. The job involved doing some very tricky, fine work which I could not see, underneath a big monitor hanging off a wall, all while standing on a ladder. And I hated these jobs. I hated them SO MUCH! Then one day I figured out that I could bring a couple of six-inch pieces of wood to work and use them to prop up the bottoms of monitors, which hang on a sort of hinge, and then I could see the job, and I didn’t hurt myself, and all the stress went away. Blissfully. Beautifully.

      Are there tasks you can revise so they are less stressful?

    9. IowaGirl*

      I have a very similar job. If you can’t get more PTO, can you arrange to work from home a couple days a week? I find my stress levels to be much lower when I am able to reduce time in the office. Some tasks (documentation) just go better when I’m not sitting under fluorescent lights with random people stopping to ask me questions every 7 minutes. Plus, I find it easier to keep an emotional distance when I’m not physically there. Good luck and Go get your thyroid checked now!

  14. Audiophile*

    Happy Friday! So glad next week is a short week!

    Had an interview this week, which I was late to despite planning, because of the torrential downpour delaying the trains. I think I was able to salvage it though.

    Got rejected for the job I interviewed for last week but, considering the commute I would have had, I’m ok with that.

    Can’t believe it’s almost December.

      1. Audiophile*

        Thanks, I had a phone interview today too. I’d definitely be interested in that moving forward to an in-person interview, but we’ll see.

    2. Terrible Tunnels*

      If they are reasonable, the company you interviewed with should understand. I don’t know what I would do if my team didn’t understand that my commute can vary from 1 and a half to 3 hours door to door. Gotta love public transportation into NYC!

      Props on salvaging the interview, hope all goes well!

      1. Audiophile*

        Yeah this was Metro-North that was delayed and I was interviewing down on Wall St. I was pretty late and had them spring a writing assignment on me, as part of the paper application I filled out. I rushed through it, because I was so concerned with being late and when I was speaking with the first person, they asked about my writing experience. I pulled out writing samples and she remarked about the difference, so I acknowledged rushing and why.

        I won’t be too bummed if it doesn’t work out. But I definitely need to leave my current job and I was hoping I would have done it by now.

  15. Grand Canyon Jen*

    I work for a school district. Today they announced the “Educator of the Month.” The winner is an elementary school teacher. The second sentence in the e-mail singing her praises read, “Hazel works when she is sick.” I believe the underlying message there is “and if you want to be a good employee, you should too.” Ugh.

    1. Anna*

      Too bad you can’t reply, “Hazel works with children and I’m sure if the parents of her students knew she worked while sick, they’d be pretty upset since sick children can really screw with your schedule! Congratulations Hazel!”

    2. AnyPenny*

      That promotes a terrible work mentality and as a parent also ticks me off. It is one thing for my kids to catch an illness from another kid; it can’t always be helped. However, it is something else entirely for my kids to catch an illness from an teacher who knowingly and willingly exposed them to it.

      1. Xarcady*

        Oh, from the school administration’s point of view, it’s great. No having to scramble to find a substitute teacher, not having to pay a substitute.

        And then a bunch of kids get sick and stay home, meaning less work for the other teachers.

        (Please note I don’t think it’s a good idea for anyone to go to work sick.)

        1. Rob Lowe can't read*

          Yeah, I’m pretty sure my administration would do the same thing. It is damn near impossible to get subs in our district (we’re huge – over 100 schools), but the sub coverage is nowhere near adequate, and they’re expensive besides. We actually have about 10% of our staff on maternity leave right now and it’s wreaking havoc, because all the aides who they might pull to sub in a pinch are covering long-term leaves.

        2. Renee*

          Except that I got static today from the attendance clerk at my kid’s school because this is the fourth day I’ve kept them home. She says they want a doctor’s note. I told her that’s not going to happen because I’m not taking my kid to the doctor for a cold. It turns out that the schools in our district lose $45 in funding for each day the kid isn’t in school. So they’re actively discouraging parents from calling their kids out. I guess they can’t look ahead enough to see that my sending my kid sick results in multiples of $45/day, instead of just the $45 for my kid. But they can go pack sand if they think that I’m (a) going to send my kid with rivers of snot down their face or (b) waste the doctor’s time with a cold.

            1. Renee*

              Nothing. They can’t do anything for not getting a note. They can refer me to the district for an inquiry if overall the absences seem excessive and then the district nurse can require a note for future absences, but the absences aren’t excessive overall. It’s perfectly reasonable that a cold will last more than three days. This seems to be one attendance clerk’s control issue. I looked and there’s no policy anywhere that requires a note based on the length of the absence, and there’s no authority for the clerk or the school to enforce such a policy. All they can do is refer us to the district for review, and I can’t imagine that would go anywhere. Our situation is not the type of situation they’re trying to intercept with the review process.

    6. MsCHX*

      I cannot stand that mentality. I’ve only had one coworker who was really bad about judging anyone who stayed home when sick. At the time I had two kids at home who were 1 and 3. She was single.

      Well lady I am sorry I can’t work and then go home and sleep/rest/relax when I am sick. I cannot function around the clock while I’m ill!

      Grr.

    7. Audiophile*

      Wow, that’s not something to praise. She’s coming in to work sick and she works with children?

      Just no.

      I worked with kids at one point and was chastised for missing many work days. I was getting sick because the kids were being sent to school sick (this school ran group homes up the street) and so I wasn’t going to continue the infection circle by coming into work sick.

    8. Purest Green*

      I was under the impression that many teachers work when sick because it’s easier than wrangling a sub and what not.

      1. Annie Moose*

        Also, sub plans. My sister has been known to drag herself to work sick because she didn’t have any sub plans ready and figured it’d be easier to just go to work than try to do it over the phone/email.

        1. Charlotte Collins*

          I remember a sub in HS who lectured our entire physics class about how horrible we all were and how we would never amount to anything. (Due to the weird way our class schedule worked, it was the longest class of the day due to how lunch breaks worked.)

          I feel reasonably confident that this was not in the teacher’s sub plans. (She was a laid-back wind surfer.) So, I think that the sub will find something to do with the students. We called it “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry Sub.”

          1. Honeybee*

            Yeah, when I was in high school I could never tell whether the subs were executing plans that the teacher gave or whether they were just following their own agenda or a mix of both. I did have one recurring sub for French who was from a Francophone African country (Cote d’Ivoire, if I remember correctly), and he usually attempted to actually teach us French. It was cool because we got to learn French language from a country other than France and learned a bit about African Francophone culture, and we had him so often that my classmates eventually got over the ‘sub day is a free day!’ mentality and allowed him to teach.

            But I had subs from other classes who just put on a video and acted put out if we said a single word, and other subs that considered themselves a baby sitter for an hour and let us do whatever we wanted (chaos usually ensued, although I, being a nerd, usually ended up doing homework).

      2. blackcat*

        Hell yes.

        After my first year, I learned to have a documentary on hand for each unit. Then, BAM, instant plan for sudden sick days. Kids were happy, subs were happy, I was crankily behind, but could recover. My boss approved of this strategy, particularly since I taught subjects that no sub could reasonably teach (high school science classes). If something was really critical (say, review the week before an AP test), the general strategy was to get a coworker to use their prep period. This worked because my coworkers were awesome, and not overburdened. It would not work in most schools.

        But during my first year, I worked sick all the time, because I was perpetually sick. I got all the germs the kids had to share. By my third year, I didn’t get sick once. That first year was rough.

      3. Sami*

        Absolutely true. Sub plans are the WORST. Especially in elementary school. So many subjects to plan for. The worst!!

    11. MC*

      I don’t work in education but I was under the impression that the school gets state and federal funding when kids show up to school. The more kids that are out sick, the less funding. 1. Is that not the case? 2. If I’m right, wouldn’t it make more sense for one person to be replaced than risk having dozens of kids (because buses, siblings, drinking fountains pass on germs) out sick?

      If I’m right – this issue could be brought before the school board as a discussion on the more advantageous position.

      1. Annie Moose*

        Dunno how other states do it, but in Michigan, it’s not tracked on a daily basis–there’s two days every year, Count Day, and the number of students tallied on those days are used to determine funding. (I think absent students can be counted if they’re back in school within a certain number of days afterward.)

        1. deets*

          That’s how the main funding allocations work in a lot of states, but there is also incentive money tied to attendance, and schools can end up with extra oversight if there attendance rates are low. Many states don’t differentiate between excused or unexcused absences for that compliance area (since regardless of the reason, the kid isn’t in school and learning), and often there’s a binary indicator for whether a student is chronically absent – which means that a kid that misses just enough days to be chronic looks the same on paper as a kid that misses half the year.

          So, yes, count days are important for per-pupil funding, but overall attendance is also important.

    12. A Plain-Dealing Villain*

      You know who else went to work when sick: Typhoid Mary. Amazingly, we don’t seem to sing her praises.

    14. pandq*

      Not an educator, but when my son was in elementary school, he won an award for never having been absent (forget what the award was called.) Then, when he had the flu, he yelled and screamed he had to go to school so he could win the award again! Why promote that kind of crap? Poor kid, his mom took him out of the running for winning the award. :(

    15. Chaordic One*

      This is so sad. My mother worked as a substitute teacher and if it were up to her the “Educator of the Month” would be the teacher who left behind a lesson plan of what to do and what to teach. If you’re a teacher who can do that, you’ve really got a lot on the ball.

      Strangely enough, after a couple of years of subbing, my mother had a job substituting where the regular teacher she was filling in for died, so they hired my mother to take over and she taught in that school for 25 years.

    16. Anon Teacher*

      I’m a teacher in a speciality role, and there is no sub coverage for me. If I’m sick, other teachers take my class during their only planning period for a very small amount of pay. They hate this. Some teachers will refuse to do my lesson plans and give the kids free time because it’s easier. Or will tell the kids how mad they are about covering. So, yeah, I work sick all the time. If I don’t, my students lose learning days and my colleagues are verbally and vocally angry. Good times.

  16. not so super-visor*

    So I’ve mentioned a couple of times here that we use a lot of temps (through an agency). We also have a ton of turnover on the temp side. I think that a lot of this could be avoided if I was able to meet/interview the temps before they are placed with us, but currently, I am only able to review their application with the temp agency. This is per the agreement that we have with the agency who feels that they already interview the candidates and we should trust that they are sending me qualified applicants. I wish I could say that I do trust them. Most of the time, I can tell within my first few “tell me a little bit about yourself” conversations on their first day whether or not the temps are going to make it (think the scene in “Parks & Rec” when Ron is interviewing candidates for Tom’s job).
    The one thing that I’ve had to insist on (and won) was the temp agency having to run a background check on their employee before they place them with us. Boy, do they hate that. “It takes too long. The applicant’s loose interest.” Sorry if I seem insensitive about this, but after having 4 different temps pulled from us due to failing the background check (all of them pulled a month after they were placed here and well into training), I put my foot down on that one. I’ve also had to put a ban on applicants coming out of a specific high-churn call center (unless they have other experience) because none of the applicants out of that location would even make it a month… some of them not even a week.

    Anyway, here is my dilemna. Once again, we’re looking for a new temp after another temp found other employement elsewhere (all part of the deal and nothing to get bent out of shape over). The temp agency sent over an application today. It looks great. Then I happen to notice the applicant’s HS graduation date at the bottom which puts him at pushing 70. I immediately have an ageist thought: we’ve had older trainees before, and they’ve never worked out; I need to reject this applicant. The the other side of me freaks out and says “You can’t reject an applicant based on their age. That just WRONG. If he’s qualified, bring him in and let the training process sort him out.” The other side replies, “But it’s so draining on everyone to start training someone who you think from the beginning won’t work out.” Somebody talk me down here. I’m feeling like a grade-A jerk. I don’t want to discriminate against someone based on their age, but without getting to meet the person first, how do you know?

    1. Jessie*

      Uh, so I know you likely wouldn’t get caught here, but rejecting someone because of his age is also just flat-out illegal.

      Please do not do this.

      Listen to the side of you that says it is wrong! Give that side a big hug and buy it dinner later tonight. ;-)

    2. Gaara*

      Just meet them! Just because some older workers haven’t worked out in the past, that doesn’t mean this one won’t. I work with a real loser named Ramsey*; that doesn’t mean that all employees named Ramsey are going to be crappy employees.

      You need to interview them and consider their skills, personality fit, etc. Plus, you don’t want to do anything illegal.

    3. calonkat*

      If you’re doing that much business with the agency, they should have assigned you to one or two individuals to manage your account. If not, request someone. Meet with that person (people) and go over the things your are looking for and the problems you are having. If you have some specifics that THEY can use to prescreen, then that will increase the chances of getting people you want.

      And if (not that I am assuming you are doing this) the agency is feeling pressured to send bodies, then reassure them that you’d rather have quality (if that’s true). It is in their interest to find the people you want/need, but if the message they’ve gotten is “they chew people up and just need bodies to fill slots”, it sounds like that needs to be corrected.

      There’s likely more than one agency in your area, so they know you CAN look elsewhere.

    4. Viola Dace*

      You don’t. You are describing classic ageism, which is no different from any other kind of “ism”. Everyone who discriminates (in any way) always has a rationale i.e., our last few X candidates didn’t work out, so I don’t want to hire any more X candidates. Either accept that you are flat out discriminating based on age, or choose not to.

    5. AndersonDarling*

      Could you find another temp agency? Back in the day, I was with agencies that would send any warm body to jobs. If you managed to show up at the agency, they didn’t care what your skills were, they just sent you out on a job. No interview, no discussion of your work history.
      But then I found an agency that really, really focused on matching the right employee with the right company/job.

    6. NaoNao*

      Well, my first thought here is to take a step back and decide what *qualities* you want, regardless of age, coming from another call center, etc, that you need in a strong candidate.
      You might break them up into skills and traits.
      Skills would be things learned on the job and traits are things like “enjoys fast paced work” “outgoing, upbeat, and friendly”
      So for example:
      Successful candidates have the following traits:
      Flexible schedule
      Strong written and verbal communications skills
      Clear background check
      Ability to quickly learn new software/hardware
      Upbeat, friendly, and customer-focused attitude

      and so on.

      If a candidate is 70+ and still has these skills/traits/etc, great.
      Make it about the traits and skills you need rather than “this job/training/process is draining and no 70 year old will like this or be able to keep up”.

      Also, it is possible to do a “one day training” where the temps shadow a current employee and decide if it’s for them? Or a “3 day welcome training” that’s more like “Hey, here’s what this high-turnover job is REALLY about”

      My personal story:
      I used to work in a legal collections call center. And…
      I’m a college grad with a MA in English lit and a focus on linguistics.
      My previous jobs were in retail or customer service of some kind (nanny, tutor, etc).
      I am female (collections is extremely male dominated, almost laughably so).
      I had no call center or collections experience and was over 30.
      I answered the ad for skip tracing, not knowing it was really going to be cold calling debtors.
      I’m an introvert who is very sensitive and reserved.

      Within 3 months I was in the top 5 collectors every day. Within 6 months accounts that had been skip traced by me were considered “buttoned up” (as in, they were so well researched and documented they needed no further skip tracing, as none really could be done). I started training new hires. I was asked to do “talk offs” (that’s the deal negotiation part of the call) within 6 months, something no other non-manager did. I was the only female collector in the top 5 consistently, and the only female collector who was there for more than 6 months.

      I did it my way (in short, developed a portfolio of “little old lady” debtors who paid me 25-50$ a month for 6 months) and was very, very successful. The owner of the business confessed he took a chance on me since I didn’t present with the collector profile, but he asked me if I could work part time from home when I wound up moving and leaving the company–he really didn’t want to lose me!!
      Perhaps the over 70 set will become your new biggest “best kept secret”! Who knows!! :)

    7. Sunflower*

      Why are you convinced it won’t work out? We used to hire temps around this time. First year at my job we hired a 30ish year old and wow it was DRAMA from day one. Man the stories I have from that. Second year we hired an older woman about 65ish. She was awesome!

      Sidenote- are your expectations for temps realistic? How long are you expecting these temps to stay on? Remember a temp is just that- a temp. They are in this job because it’s easy to get out of it ASAP.

      1. Rachel*

        I’ve had several coworkers at different jobs who were in their 70s. They were generally great! As long as they can do the job, who cares how old they are?

        Also, for at least the last several years, whenever I’ve had a potential temp job, I always had to do at least a phone screen (and many times an in-person interview) with the client company before getting the assignment. I just thought that was the new normal.

    8. not so super-visor*

      Thanks everyone. I’ve already sent an email accepting the application. I just needed the push to listen to the second (clearly more rational) voice.

      1. Jessie*

        If you have any say with which temp agency you use, or if you are the point person for dealing with the agency, definitely see if you can meet with the agency and go over what you are looking for with your temp workers, though, since it sounds like you aren’t getting what you need! Or see if there is something about your job placement that makes it tough to keep people (maybe there is something specific about your job that makes it uniquely hard to fill in the world of temp work, that would be helpful for you to know? Or maybe your expectations aren’t realistic – i.e., your turnover for temps may be normal, or maybe what you pay them generally means you won’t be getting shining stars).

    9. MsCHX*

      If they are qualified, there shouldn’t be an issue.

      I am an HR Manager for a company whose average age is around 57. I have at least 7 people 65 and older. They work full-time and perform their job duties just fine.

    10. Althea*

      I think you need to tell the agency that you need to do interviews, or you are happy to find an agency that has no problem with it…

      I temped, and I interviewed at both places despite going through an agency.

      You need to not discriminate against this person. You are trying to do it because of the exhausting non-interview system, not because he is a bad candidate.

      1. zora*

        This. I have been temping through a few different agencies over the years, and about half of my placements included an interview with the client before starting.

        There are agencies who will listen to what you want and let you do interviews first. You are the client, it should be up to you.

      2. TootsNYC*

        Yeah, given the track record, I’d use that data to push harder about wanting to interview them yourself. Just flat-out refuse to do it any other way–use the leverage you have from being a steady customer. Also, start calling some other agencies to see what they will do for you.

        Another option is to restructure things so that someone works for you a little bit (a week?) before they actually start the training. Have tests or indicative tasks for them when they get there, and then decide you don’t want them. Essentially you’re paying for their time to “interview” them, but it’s probably less damaging overall.

    11. Xarcady*

      I cannot answer to this one person’s ability to do the job at your company, but I’m currently temping at a company that uses lots and lots of temps, both long-and-short-term.

      Some of the best temps here are retired and over 70. Some are over 80. If they are a match for the work, they do a great job.

      And some of the younger temps simply can’t handle the requirements of the work.

      The temp agency does have one person dedicated to staffing the temps at this company, and she does a great job of matching people to the right job.

    12. Rex*

      Other people have already weighed in on the age thing, but on the bigger picture, I would really suggest pushing back and asking for at least a quick phone screen before bringing people on. If they ask you to “trust them” you know have a track record of different expectations to point to.

    13. not so super-visor*

      You guys have brought up a lot of good points about the temp agency process. A lot of them, I’ve also brought up in the past, but I haven’t gotten a lot of traction.
      I’ve also temped at other companies in my past (but not for my current company. I am one of the few people that they direct hired and then promoted). I had to go to interviews for these positions. (One of them, I almost didn’t get after an awkward interview.) It boggles my mind that we can’t interview prospective temps especially since we have such a high turnover rate on temps (not on hired-in employees). I think it just boils down to the past supervisors not caring. The past supervisors where never promoted from within our department (I’m the first), and they had no hand in training temps or new employees. They would just assign them to an already existing employee to train. They didn’t even put together a training manual; it was on that employee to come up with any documents that they thought the temp might need. Then they would dismiss temps for the smallest errors or for having weird personality quirks (one could not pronounce the name of the city that one of our offices was in for the life of her). Now, it kind of surprises leadership that I’m so involved in trying to bring in quality applicants rather than just churning through a large quantity of temps before one sticks.

    14. Marisol*

      I have temped many times over the years and have had a bit of experience hiring temps as well. I have had phone interviews before starting a temp assignment when the client requested them (e.g. for a long-term temp assignment) and had no qualms about doing so. It is totally reasonable to expect to interview a temp beforehand–you are the client and should be able to set whatever parameters for employment that you chose. I don’t understand the constraints of your situation that would make it necessary to work with this temp agency, but they sound uncooperative and unprofessional. I would look for a different company if at all possible, and/or have a very serious talk with the one you’re using.

    15. FiveWheels*

      Eek. That older Tempsford haven’t worked out has nothing to do with whether this temp will work out.

      If he doesn’t fit, then he doesn’t fit AND he’s old. It’s absolutely 100% not that he doesn’t fit BECAUSE he’s old.

      I dunno about the legality, but IMO not properly considering someone because of their age is flat out wrong.

    16. BRR*

      I’m not really knowledgeable about how temping works but is it out of the norm to have a brief interview with someone? It sounds like you might be able to get a lot out of a short phone interview.

      1. Marisol*

        happens all the time in my industry. it should be whatever the client wants, the temp agency will do. your comment makes me wonder if the OP was only considering face-to-face interviews instead of phone interviews. i was assuming a phone interview and yes, even ten minutes can reveal a lot.

    17. Observer*

      but without getting to meet the person first, how do you know?

      Well, that’s the answer to your question. Without meeting someone you do not know whether they are going to work out or not. Period. And, really age has nothing to do with the issue.

      If you really are seeing a real pattern of age related issues, I’m going to bet that the problem is on your end.

    18. Mockingjay*

      My dad is 79 and runs his own business. He can pass for someone in his early 60s.

      Age is just a number.

      Think of the work ethic and the breadth of experience this applicant could bring! Give him a shot. Might be the best decision you ever make.

    19. I Heart Oregon*

      I work for a staffing agency. Note I said staffing, not temp. We mainly do temp-to-hire and shy away from a lot of temp work. We want the right placement for both client and candidate. Your situation is crazy-can’t believe the agency is bossing you around. Almost every one of our clients has a different preference for how we send people and we do whatever the CLIENT wants, we don’t tell them how to select candidates. For clerical positions, our clients always,always want to do an interview in person first. Some even want to do a phone screen before the interview. And they want the background check run and any issues disclosed (according to their acceptable criminal background criteria) before the candidate is even submitted to them. These processes are always clarified with the client during the signing of the contract with us. You should have other choices-there are lots of agencies around. I don’t know if this one was chosen because of the rate they charge being low, but for a little more you might get better service somewhere else.

    20. Girasol*

      I had a problem like that with an older fellow once. Then the next older fellow we got couldn’t even see his screen in the training class. Aargh! And when he got a bigger monitor it turned out that he was fantastic, best guy on the team, outshone the younger folks, made my life easier. I’ve got to remember that paying attention to my gut doesn’t apply when there’s any possibility of prejudice. I agree with others here, though, that you need to interview these folks whatever their ages. A good temp agency will encourage that.

    21. TootsNYC*

      My dad is 85 and has had major, major surgery; he still has a feeding tube because he can’t safely control how he swallows.

      He’s the top part-time associate his Home Depot has.

      So…

    22. Zip Silver*

      You might be ok, considering you’re not hiring them as an employee. Still a crappy thing to do, though.

  17. Temperance*

    I’ve been having a pretty shitty October/November this year in my personal life. I’ve been trying to keep it together at work, but I received some devastating news about a friend on Tuesday morning, and have been pretty miserable since then. I’m doing my job and acting as politely and professionally as I can, but I have no poker face and look miserable.

    How do you handle this?? I feel terrible, look terrible, and am just really sad.

      1. neverjaunty*

        It’s OK to be and look sad. Just let them know “yeah, some personal stuff; I’ll be fine but I’m just feeling a little down. Thanks for checking in though.” And then decline to elaborate if they push (most won’t).

      2. Althea*

        For me it’s best to bring it up so you don’t send signals that are misinterpreted.

        “I’ve had some personal things going on that are really getting me down.”
        “Oh, I’m sorry!”
        “It’s no problem, it’s just hard to talk about at work. How are you?/How’s that project coming along?”

        You can be more specific of course, but people will generally pick up on the subject change in addition to saying you don’t want to talk about it atwork.

    2. ThatGirl*

      Can you take some time off to mourn/heal/take care of yourself? Because that seems like the first best option I can think of.

      1. Temperance*

        I can’t – it’s the busiest time of the year in my industry, and I’m in a two-person department.

        1. ThatGirl*

          Then take care of yourself as best you can now – and let some personal things slide a bit if you have to. Get plenty of sleep and gentle exercise and eat well. And as soon as you can, take a few days off.

        3. Not So NewReader*

          Allow extra time for everything. Let’s say Task A takes a half hour. Allot 45 minutes for it. Maybe grocery shopping takes an hour, tack on another 15 minutes. Pad your time all day long so you are not stressed out getting from one task/errand/whatever to the next task/errand/etc.

          Our bodies need three things to cope with stress, good food, plenty of water and extra rest. Try to hit one or more of these each day.

          Cry. Get up a few minutes early in the morning and allow yourself a cry time. Or allow yourself some cry time before bed. You know, I have gone through points in my life where if I had a good solid cry before bed, I slept better and I noticed the next day was not as tough. Remember crying causes chemical reactions in the brain that keep it healthy.

          Find people to talk about this stuff with. Maybe you don’t tell any one person the whole story but you can find people to tell parts of the story to. You found us, you can find more. Don’t let yourself fall into isolation. If church interests you, that might be a good idea. Perhaps there is a support group for people in your friend’s situation, may you would like to join a group like that.

    3. Sunflower*

      Is your work suffering or are you just worried about explaining your appearance/dealing with comments?

    4. SRB*

      Sending jedi hugs your way… I know that feeling too lately…

      If you have the money, talk to a therapist. Sometimes just talking about things out loud to someone – anyone – is really helpful. If you don’t have that option, maybe just try to get up every now and then in the workday and just say a passing hello to friendly coworkers, or make plans with friends outside of work. Nothing big, but it’s helpful to take small steps to get out there and think about all the things in the world that don’t suck right now. And while distraction isn’t a permanent solution, it can help to cut cycles of negative thinking for awhile. I prefer video games or TV shows for that.

      And don’t be afraid to take a “mental health” sick day if you really need to.

      1. Future Analyst*

        To piggy-back: if your company has an EAP, many will cover three visits to a counselor (or even programs that make therapists available via phone/online), so if that’s available, take advantage. Sorry things are rough right now. :(

    5. Merida May*

      Try to surround yourself with stuff you enjoy. I follow funny instagram accounts that show up in my feed. Is there a photo or object you can put at your desk that makes you smile? Make it appoint to take a five minute breather to grab a coffee/tea/hot chocolate/something. Plan to do a hobby or watch a show after work and keep that appointment with yourself. These are little things, but I’ve had moments where I felt like crying and a photo of a dog hanging out by a pool in a pair of giant sunglasses took some of the edge off.

      Also, for what it’s worth, you don’t have to present as totally fine if it isn’t in you. You mention you are getting your work done and acting professionally, you can give yourself permission to not be a ray of optimistic sunshine. Your feelings are a priority here, don’t feel like you have to act a certain way to make the people around you comfortable. If that stems from wanting to be left alone, ‘I’m ok, thanks for asking’ should curb casual inquiries if you’re not up for talking. Best of luck, I’m sorry you’re going through a rough patch.

    6. Lacie*

      Fellow no-poker face here! I find it helpful to tell worried/nosy coworkers a bland but honest version of what’s going on and how I’d like to deal with it– like, “My beloved pet unicorn died last night. I guess you’ve noticed that I’m pretty down, but I’d like to focus on work in order to take my mind off it.” In my experience, people are understanding and don’t push it further.

    7. Marisol*

      when you can safely do so, i.e., when you are home, then let all your misery OUT like a raging beast. Don’t try to “cheer yourself up.” Self care is great but shouldn’t be used to stifle your emotions. There’s an exercise devised by Regena Thomashauer called spring cleaning–find a friend and do the exercise with her: http://www.mamagenas.com/where-women-store-garbage/

      The more you can move through the energy of negative emotion, honoring it and actually experiencing it, the more it will clear and the easier it will be to show up at work in a better frame of mind.

      for the comments from coworkers, you can say something like, “thanks for your concern. I’m going through a rough patch right now, but it will work itself out in time” or something similarly non-committal. If they ask for more info and you don’t want to share, then say something like, “I appreciate that you want to help but I’d rather not talk about it” or, if you do want to share a bit about your experience, then do so–it depends on your relationship with the coworkers and the general office culture obviously.

      If you think they might offer any help or support, then you might come up with a list in advance of ways they could do that–carpool, cover your desk for a few mornings, recommend a good masseuse, etc. When people offer to help, they are usually sincere and enjoy helping.

      I *think* that addresses your question. Hope it helps. Sorry you’re having a bad time. :(

    8. zora*

      I don’t have any advice, but I am also struggling right now, so I’m sending commiseration and jedi hugs. I hope we both feel better soon.

    9. Drew*

      I’m very sorry to hear that you’re going through a rough patch. No real advice that hasn’t already been given. “I’m sorry, I just got some bad news about a friend and I’m trying not to let it affect what’s going on here. Thanks for understanding.”

  18. Folklorist*

    Hi everyone! This is your regular-ish ANTI-PROCRASTINATION POST!!! What have you been putting off?

    I know there’s something you don’t want to do on your list that keeps magically being pushed back. GO DO IT! Then come back and tell us about it!

    You’ll feel better to have that monkey off your back. I, for one, will be catching up on the company Twitter feed and editing Classified ads (shudder).

    1. Emilia Bedelia*

      Ugh….. I’m going to combine 4 giant Excel spreadsheets into one. Do they map in a convenient way to one another? No, of course not :)

      1. New Person*

        Oh that was me earlier this week. A partner who is working with my partner stopped by and said “Oh youre New Person? Yeah I thought we could just put them together but “your partner” sent them to you”. I said that they didn’t exactly map and he goes “oh God no” and walks away

      2. HR Expat*

        They never do :( Is there a unique item on all the spreadsheets where you can use a vlookup to combine them?

        1. Emilia Bedelia*

          That’s what the issue was- each spreadsheet lists different types of information for the same group of items, and I needed to put them all into the same spreadsheet so that 1 spreadsheet has all the information for all of the items. But of course, there are multiple lines for each item on each spreadsheet that needed to be combined, and dozens of columns for each item in each spreadsheet, so it’s just a monster in general.

          But more practice with Index/Match is never a bad thing. And now… IT’S DONE!

    2. Anonny non non me!*

      Job search! I’ve been tired. I try to narrow it down to 2-3 good fits a week (since I’m willing to relocate, this is a bit easier).

    3. TheCupcakeCounter*

      Calling the state today regarding assessment letters. Always a pain and they are always wrong. States and taxes do not make Friday fun!

    4. Smiling Everyday*

      The boss wants us to re-organize the electronic filing system because it doesn’t make sense to him. Problem is is that is makes sense to the few who use it on a regular basis and his requested re-organization makes navigation harder.

    6. Temperance*

      I need to call a very unpleasant, mentally ill client to schedule something with her. Ughhhhhhhhhhh.

    7. Anonyby*

      Just filed away statements from transactions I closed out! :D They’ve been building up for a few weeks–I’d close them out but then not have enough time to file away the statements. The statements are the only part where we keep both digital & hard copies.

    8. Hellanon*

      Oh, wow, you are going to make me go back to that report, aren’t you? (Application for a new curriculum – fun stuff, overall, but this is the minutiae side.)

  19. ArtK*

    Instead of stories about dysfunctional workplaces, I thought I’d share one about a well-managed place that I observed recently. Everybody knows that restaurant kitchens are absolute hell-holes, with the chef screaming at people for the slightest mistake. Or, at least, that’s what TV tells us. The reality that I saw at one restaurant was very different.

    For a special occasion, we sat at the “chef’s counter” at a restaurant we love. The kitchen is open to the restaurant and the counter is right there looking into it. There was a prep table immediately in front of us and all of the stoves, etc. behind that. When we sat down, there was a cook slicing dozens of lemons and seasoning meat for the evening rush. When I looked at the name on his jacket, I realized that this was the executive chef — the boss of everybody in the kitchen! From the get-go he was showing that he was part of the team, contributing everywhere. They were catering a large private party and we got to watch the executive chef and two sous chefs plate a dozen meals in a rapid, assembly line fashion. Again, the boss was right there working along side everyone else.

    During the evening, I saw him move through the kitchen, talking to various chefs about what they were doing. Sometimes tasting things to check. No screaming, no cursing. If a meal was sent back for some reason, it was dealt with calmly and quickly. At one point, the executive chef disappeared into the back with a young man dressed in chef’s clothing that didn’t match the restaurant uniform. When he came back later, he explained that he was auditioning a new chef. He expressed a lot of compassion for how much stress that is for the candidate. Clearly, he wants people to succeed.

    At another point, he cooked up a new cut of meat that a vendor had suggested. He tasted it, along with the chef de cuisine and the lead sous chef. He made the decision to not buy that cut, but what I got from it was that he trusted his people and that he showed that trust.

    The whole kitchen ran like a well-oiled machine. There was a level of teamwork that can only happen when it’s both allowed and encouraged by the people in charge. The front of the house is similar — very well organized and efficient. We eat at this restaurant several times a year (it’s an indulgence for us) and have noticed that there’s a very low turnover in the staff. That’s another sign that they value their people and provide a good working environment.

    TL;DR: It’s possible to make even a high-pressure environment like a restaurant kitchen work well without a lot of drama and discomfort. It takes management that cares about the people, not just the food.

    Oh yeah. The food is amazing.

      1. ArtK*

        I’ve spoken to the executive chef, the chef de cuisine and the house manager complimenting them. We also show our appreciation by coming back when we can afford it!

        Another anecdote: We had the same waiter on two consecutive visits. Despite several months (and hundreds of customers) in between, he remembered us and our wine preferences. Sadly, I haven’t seen him the last couple of visits, but he was a young man destined to become the sommelier at a high-end restaurant. Many of the waiters have sommelier training (I think the largest number of any restaurant around), showing that they invest in their people.

    3. Hermione*

      I love this story.

      @Alison, maybe we could do a once-a-month call for stories about people doing things right? Like this, or smaller stories about times when your boss/employee/coworker/company went above and beyond to do great things?

      1. SRB*

        I know before she’s said she doesn’t want to do a “best boss”, because even when bosses do one great thing, they might be mediocre or bad in other respects… but maybe something like “Best Bossing Moments” would be more appropriate. I’d love to see examples of people doing the *right thing* for their employees. It’s good to see “bad bossing behavior” so that we learn to avoid it, but I think it’s equally inspiring to see “good bossing behavior” and try to model it.

        Plus, I know I’d have some good stories to share about my bosses. :)

      2. NW Mossy*

        What a fabulous idea! As a manager, I learn so much from Alison’s descriptions of what “managing right” looks like, and seeing stories from readers in the same vein would be awesome.

      3. ArtK*

        One of the reasons I posted this was to point out something about learning to manage. I could have gone home from the restaurant saying “no cussing or knives thrown, cool” without thinking any more deeply about it. What I did do was ask myself “why?” I try to do the same thing when I see a place that doesn’t work well.

      1. ArtK*

        I’ll even reveal the restaurant. Before I do, and before people search for it and choke on the price, I have to justify just a bit. Good food and Disney are our two big indulgences. We drive old cars and save our pennies in order to afford these things.

        The restaurant is Napa Rose at Disney’s Grand Californian hotel in Anaheim. The executive chef is Andrew Sutton who also heads Disneyland’s private Club 33 as well as the Carthay Circle restaurant in Disney’s California Adventure.

        A bit more on the chef’s table concept if you’ve never run into it. Besides getting a great view into the kitchen, they will build a custom menu just for you. The chef de cuisine talks to you about allergies and preferences and then they come up with something made up of dishes from the current menu or sometimes unique things. We were four at dinner and each of us got a different menu (although a couple of dishes were duplicated between things.) They can do wine pairings as well, based on what’s being served.

        I’ve seen, but not dined at, a similar situation. Commander’s Palace, one of the great New Orleans restaurants has a chef’s table right in the kitchen. It’s on our bucket list but we need at least 8 people!

        2. Honeybee*

          This is good to know! I was down in Anaheim with my husband a few months ago and we had dinner at Downtown Disney – I can’t remember the name of the restaurant, but it was a Mediterranean themed one.

    6. theanagrace*

      I worked as a Room Service waitress in a boutique hotel that was supremely poorly managed (on just about every level and in every way) and the one manager that was any good was the head chef. Out of all the departments (front desk, housekeeping, etc.) the kitchen staff had the lowest turnover. He was so good at keeping everything in order at all times, working hard alongside the cooks, taking an interest in everything. I wish my manager had been even a bit as good as he was, I might have stayed longer than 9 months.
      A good head chef is worth their weight in hand-crafted seasonal gelato. :P

    7. TootsNYC*

      Go read “Work Clean: The life-changing power of mise-en-place to organize your life, work, and mind”
      by Dan Charnas
      The promo line on the cover: “What great chefs can teach us about organization”

      Really amazing.

      1. ArtK*

        Sounds really interesting. Thanks for the recommendation! One of my observations at Napa Rose was in how well organized things were. Everything that each chef needed was close to hand. Clean pans and plates were brought in unobtrusively, but in time so that nobody was waiting on the dishwasher. Sauce was running low? Magically, the chef responsible for the sauces was right there refreshing it. Considering that the sauce takes a lot of time, they must have started long before the chef’s supply ran out.

        (BTW, nice to see you… artk2002 elsewhere in case you hadn’t guessed.)

  20. Berry*

    I just switched my resume from a chronological one to one where my most relevant positions are listed in order. (I had a bunch of internships in a field I want to work in, but am currently working in an unrelated one.) I’m hoping for more success because I’ve been hunting for a while; has anyone else done this and found that it worked for them?

    1. College Career Counselor*

      Your resume can still be reverse chronological–just change your section headings to “{relevant industry experience}” and include all those related internships, but then put everything else in an “Additional Experience” section. That will help hiring managers pick out the things that are most applicable to the job you’re applying for. Good luck!

    2. Lemon Zinger*

      YES, when I changed my resume to only reflect my relevant work experience, I started getting interviews where before, I hadn’t. It was huge for me.

      Obviously list your current job on there too, but below the relevant experience. First impressions are everything, and if the first impression is that you’re appropriately experienced, you’re in a good place.

  21. rosenstock (prev. unsettled)*

    hi, i’m the girl who had to bandage her boss’s knee wound a few months ago https://www.askamanager.org/2016/08/open-thread-august-26-27-2016.html#comment-1187136

    happy to report i’ve been job hunting for a month and have two interviews lined up – one at a law firm and one at a nonprofit – one of them is this afternoon! things have only gotten crazier. my boss raises his voice at me daily and my nerves are shot. please wish me luck in leaving this situation.

    2. Blue Anne*

      That was such a weird thing for him to ask of you, rosenstock, and it sounds like a really cruddy situation. I’m glad you’ve got interviews. Best of luck!

  22. NarrowDoorways*

    So wage law update.

    A friend of mine at a nonprofit was upset because the company has a 35 hour work week, but management had started saying that the company was just going to say the extra 5 hours that may happen in a week would be included in that base salary, and time and a half would start after 40. Salary non-exempt, I think Alison called it, which apparently is very normal. It just made them angry as there are current hourly workers at the company who already make time and a half for hours worked over 35 a week.

    Well, that’s not what was officially announced. Apparently the company is changing to a 40 hour work week altogether, but those who were hired with a salary for 35 hours a week will stay at the same salary. I guess everyone is wildly upset, as they view this as a pay cut (and it does also cut how much they’ll now get for overtime), and they’re talking mass quitting.

    To me, yeah it sucks, but if you already worked over 40 a week, at least now you’ll probably make more when you do overtime. I think it’s awful for those people who took the job specifically because of the shorter days and who were able to finish everything they needed to in 35 hours a week, though….

    Anyone else encountered this kind of company change as we swiftly approach the new wage law effective date?

    1. ThatGirl*

      I posted about my husband’s situation a few months ago, and I’m gonna piggyback on this for an update – it’s working out about as well as it can, I suppose. He works at a small private university as a counselor, which is a position that would pay a lot of OT if they moved him to non-exempt, so they’re raising his salary to the minimum but cutting his position to 10 months. He’ll be able to choose 4 pay periods (2 consecutive at a time) over the summer to take off and it ends up being a ~3K net raise (which isn’t quite as good as it sounds since they’d previously gotten paycuts).

      It’s a net gain, since his insurance and PTO and other benefits remain intact, but still seems a bit weasel-y.

    2. Retail HR Guy*

      So the employees are being asked to work the normal hours that everyone else in the country works. However, if they work less than 40, they still get their full salary, and if they work more than 40, they get overtime?

      I’m finding it hard to muster sympathy for these poor downtrodden employees. Of all the horror stories of company’s reactions to the FLSA changes this is by far the least horrific one I’ve heard.

      1. NarrowDoorways*

        Yeah, it’s not the most horrible option out there. I think they’re freaking out because some people accepted the position specifically because of the hours and it’s going to affect some people with travel times and childcare. But I still think they’re coming out ahead because at least they’ll get overtime for their 40+ hours now!

        1. neverjaunty*

          They are not “coming out ahead” because they preferred a shorter week and less pay to a longer week and more pay. The time is worth more to them than the extra money.

      2. Jax*

        First, I don’t think it matters what the rest of the country is doing. These people were hired with the understanding that the work week was 35 hours. And their salary reflected that. Now they’re being told it’s mandatory to work 40 hours a week, but their salary is going to be exactly the same. It sounds like there is no option to work less than 40 hours. I would never voluntarily give my employer 5 hours of my time every week and would be offended if my employer proposed this without bumping my wage up slightly.

        1. MsCHX*

          I totally shrugged off the switch from 35 hours to 40 hours…It happens. Recently I read (on the SHRM forums maybe??) where people were complaining that they were allowed to telecommute and new CEO was nixing it. Well, either work in the office or find another job. Commute or childcare nonwithstanding.

          However, being expected to work an additional 5 hours a week at the same salary — in other words, a 12.5% paycut is so wrong.

          1. Cube Ninja*

            Not to be pedantic, but it’s actually a 14.3% pay cut, since that extra 5 hours is based on 35 hours, rather than 40. :)

      3. Cube Ninja*

        If I’m reading this correctly, they get OT above 35 hours at 1.5x pay but normally work a 35 hour week to get full pay. They’re moving to a 40 hour workweek, which means 5 extra hours at same rate of pay and OT above 40 hours. Since their jobs now require them to be in the office for 40 hours, presumably they may be subject to disciplinary action for failure to work enough hours.

        This isn’t a direct monetary impact in terms of take-home pay (although it could be if folks normally work >35 hours), but it’s pretty lousy on the part of the employer since they’re now requiring 15% more hours while offering nothing to the employees in exchange. I wouldn’t be surprised in the slightest if they had major turnover.

        1. NarrowDoorways*

          Especially as they just hired two new executive positions! So they’re adding overhead leadership with salaries in the hundreds of thousands (nonprofit, so info is listed publicly), but asking those on the ground to take the hit.

      4. One Handed Typist*

        They were hired at a salary for 35 hours. They are now having hours increased to 40, but no change in pay, effectively getting less money. That’s how I understood it, and I’d be pissed if that happened! I switched from a 40 hour week department to a position in a 32 hour week department specifically so that I could take my son to school and pick him up after, without having to pay any additional childcare costs. An 8 hour reduction in salary was still more money than if I had to pay for childcare. If they were to tell me I had to go back to 40 but not give me a raise, I’d likely find a new job very quickly. Very, very quickly.

      5. BRR*

        It’s not the worst scenario but it’s changing the terms of employment in a pretty significant way. Adding an hour a day to someone’s work schedule is a big change. And while many many offices have 40 hour work weeks, we shouldn’t say people shouldn’t be upset if they’re getting screwed over. We should try and wish the best for others instead of saying they don’t have it so bad.

      6. neverjaunty*

        “I’ve heard worse!” is pretty much never a useful or constructive thing to say.

        This is a nonprofit that hired people at a given salary to work 35 hours a week. Now it’s increasing their hours for no pay.

    3. Jessie*

      The new wage law doesn’t have anything to do with this, though. If the company is saying that it does, they are just lying.

      This is simply a company changing its mind about how much it wants its employees to work. It is entirely okay, under the law, for a company to pay overtime for hours worked over 35 – it does not HAVE to, and it never HAD to, but it always CAN, if it wants to. And it could raise the salaries of its people if it wanted to. It just doesn’t want to.

      So, I guess I am just trying to figure out why this is a “wage law update”? It is definitely a “jerky company update,” especially if they are blaming the new law for its own decision to change everyone’s work schedules….

    4. Honeybee*

      It is essentially a pay cut. You want me to work 5 hours for free. If they made $19 an hour (which is a little less than $40,000 a year), 5 hours a week is $95; over the course of 50 weeks, that’s $4,750. $380 a month/$4,750 is not a small amount, and it gets bigger the higher the salaries.

  23. T3k*

    So, I’m probably overthinking this but just wanted to make sure so I don’t accidentally get myself on the blacklist or something. I was scouring jobs at a company I’ve been eyeing for several years and noticed one that only had one big requirement: basic understanding or passion in a field (say, teapot ergonomics). I have a background more in teapot design, but the fields are loosely related and I’ve just recently started to self-teach myself on teapot ergonomics. The kicker: I met one of the senior people in that department 4 months ago when a small group of us did some surveys for them and I got to make small talk during that week, but nothing job related. Afterwards, I sent a connection on LinkedIn but haven’t had contact since and most likely, this position wouldn’t be reporting directly to them. Would I be overstepping boundaries if I sent them a message asking if it’d be worth applying with my teapot design background? And if so, should I do it through LinkedIn or their work email? (I have the latter because they had to send us info for the surveys).

    1. Dawn*

      Ok so if I’m understanding correctly, the person that you met is senior in the department that the job opening is in? If that’s the case, then no I don’t think it’s overstepping to shoot a quick email and ask for clarification of what the position is looking for (“In reading this job description it seems that your company is really looking for someone who can do [X] with teapots, and also has a background with [X] and exemplary skills in [Y, Z]. Is my assessment correct?”. I *do* think it would come across weird if you were to ask if this person you know thinks you’d be qualified to even apply for the job- because then it seems like you’re seeking an endorsement, which the person that you know might not be able to or might not be comfortable giving.

      1. T3k*

        Yeah, they’re one of the senior members of that department. I definitely don’t want it to come off as seeking an endorsement, but was having a hard time trying to word a message to say “I have background in X, but not in Y, would that disqualify me?” without it also coming off as “I want the job!!!” Unfortunately, the job has very little in way of clarifying skills (it only has 3 points, all of which fall under Y) and it sounds like a very entry level job, which I’m ok with if it gets me a foot in the door.

    2. Student*

      If you are interested, just apply for the job.

      At very worst, they will look, deem you underqualified for what they want, and not call you for an interview. They aren’t going to decide you’re underqualified and then blacklist you. They probably wouldn’t go to the trouble of blacklisting you even if you were a 17-year-old with no prior work experience who wrote a cover letter in 24-point italicized comics sans font and emojis in iambic pentameter.

      Blacklist is reserved for the well-known troublemakers, people who gravely insult their interviewers, and such extremes. Many places just don’t have a blacklist mechanism at all. It’s not common. Anyone who employs a blacklist more widely than that is himself a nut and somebody you don’t want to work for.

  24. Mela*

    How to explain not-so-great grades to a graduate school admissions committee?

    I’m applying for a graduate school program and the only part of my application I”m worried about is my grades from about 3 semesters. I had a stalker and sort of shut down academically. I did the schoolwork I enjoyed but I ignored work that took too much effort because I didn’t have the capacity at the time. So my transcript from those semesters is particularly confusing because it’s a mix of A’s/B’s, a couple of C’s, 1 D and a few F’s. The rest of my transcript is all A’s, B’s and 2 C’s.

    The program I’m applying to has room for three additional documents that you want the admissions committee to see, so I am definitely writing something separate from my personal statement. But I have no idea how to go about writing an explanation of my grades. Is it a letter? essay? what would something like this be called? Any ideas or suggestions? I hate feeling like I’m making excuses, but my transcript really doesn’t reflect my academic abilities or work ethic.

    1. Maya*

      Are the C’s, D’s and F’s in courses that are related to the field you’re interested in studying in graduate school? Are they back to back? If you’re applying for grad programs in STEM fields for example, it may not be hard for the admissions committee’s to overlook low grades in humanities subjects as long as your science and math coursework is good.

      As for how to explain, I wouldn’t get into a sob story. Just state what was was going on, be frank and honest, and demonstrate that how you’ve improved. You say your transcript doesn’t reflect your academic abilities or work ethic, so you just have to prove that. You’ll need to emphasize extra curriculars and relevant work experience.

      1. Mela*

        No, they’re in a different major (I switched afterwards). I have 2 semesters of good grades, 3 semesters of bad grades, and then 4 semesters of good grades in my field, so I’m not sure if that’s proof enough, but I had lots of relevant internships during those last 4 semesters and have worked in the field for the past four years, so I’m hoping that will mitigate most concerns.

    2. TotesMaGoats*

      Ok. So, as a graduate admissions director, I’ve got a couple question you should consider.

      1. How selective is the program? Are you fighting for a seat or just having to meet admissions requirements.
      2. How long ago was college? Did you just graduate or was this more than a few years ago

      If the answer to #1 is not selective and your cumulative GPA meets the requirements then I would necessarily worry about it. However, you could consider addressing it in your essay.

      If the answer to #2 was a while ago, then I wouldn’t necessarily feel the need to address if you have a solid resume and other supporting docs. If it was last May, well, maybe.

      I think it really comes down to what program and where. If your program of interest is very selective, I would absolutely address it. If the essay is free form, you could do it there. If not, I would do it separately and maybe address it as how you’ve grown as a person due to said events. But do it lightly.

      1. Mela*

        Thank you! That is really helpful. The three semesters in question were in 2007-2009, so it was a very long time ago and I can point to academic and professional success afterwards, but I still want to explain it! Maybe it’s just the perfectionist/nerd in me? Oh, it’s also because those years were at a European university, the only one I attended, and I don’t want any subtle association that I can perform well in a US institution, but not a European one (the grad program is at a European university).

        I actually have no idea how selective the program is. The “Eligibility” page doesn’t list any grade requirements. I’d say it’s a mix of academic and professional type of grad program, but the lack of grade requirements makes me think it leans more toward a professional grad program, and I know experience counts more than grades in those cases, but I’m still not sure.

        If I can’t integrate it into the personal statement, should I just write a simple paragraph explaining the situation? It seems too far away to integrate into a personal statement, as I have so much more that I want to talk about in which is more relevant to the degree/my career.

        1. TotesMaGoats*

          Ok, my advice? Call them and ask about their selectivity. When people ask me about my programs, I tell them they only person they are competing against is you. It’s not a fight for a seat and that’s not secret information really. Most places are really proud if they are super selective. I don’t know a ton about European institutions but it doesn’t hurt to ask.

          2007-2009 was a really long time ago. So a very short paragraph in a separate document or even an email would be fine if it’ll make you feel better.

        2. One Handed Typist*

          Have you met with the Admissions counselor? That would definitely be helpful. They can tell you how competitive you are, how best to approach the deficient semesters. Even if it is via email, it’s helpful for the admissions counselor to have interaction with you prior to the application submission.

          My University is well-known for its nursing program. The “Eligibility” page states the minimum qualifications (3.0 GPA in all pre-requisites as well as others) but the admissions counselor will swiftly point out that unless you have a 3.75 GPA, you simply aren’t competitive. There are too many students with straight A’s in the pre-reqs applying for limited positions. It’s a highly impacted program. But it’s also Undergrad, so the course load and admissions process is different from your situation.

    3. Anna*

      I think it’s a brief explanation in a letter. The tone should be positive, but it doesn’t have to be a long explanation and you don’t have to spend a lot of time reassuring them that you’re over it and everything is fine and nothing to worry about! In fact, the explanation here slightly expanded would be a pretty decent outline of why your grades are confusing and what you were dealing with.

      1. Mela*

        So maybe a short (less than half a page single spaced) letter addressed to the admissions committee? My main question is how to frame it. Dear Admissions Committee, I’m writing to address the issue of my poor grades….?
        In addition to my other application materials, I’m hoping this additional context regarding my academic performance….? Once I get started I know what to say about the actual issue, I just don’t know how to start it.

        1. Anna*

          Actually, that sounds pretty good. Except maybe don’t say “poor grades,” say something like inconsistent performance during the 2014-2015 Academic year. :)

    4. Jessie*

      If it helps, when I applied to law school, I used my personal statement to discuss a particularly horrible personal thing that happened to me, in way that both addressed early problems in my transcript and illuminated why I wanted to take the step I was taking in life (i.e., why I was motivated to go to law school now). Like you, my later semesters were good but I definitely had problems earlier in my transcript that I felt I couldn’t just have sitting there without explanation.

      I applied to 3 programs – the 2 programs in which I used the essay to talk about Horrible Things accepted me, and the 3rd program, where I used a different essay that didn’t mention Horrible Thing, rejected me. All 3 were competitive.

      Explaining makes a difference! You’re a person, let them see who you are. :-)

      1. Mela*

        That makes me feel better about wanting to explain! I actually could integrate it into my career path, as the initial issue is directly related to the first internship I took which clarified my interest in the current field I’m in. But then my career path had one more evolution (all within the same wider, massive field), so I’m not sure if I’ll have space to fit it all in.

        1. Grits McGee*

          You could probably mention it briefly as part of an intro about how you became interested in the field. (Ex-“After being a victim of stalking in my [__] year of college and weathering the turmoil of that experience, I became really interested in [field] and as a result did an internship at [____].”)

    5. Nye*

      I’d suggest writing a clear, simple explanation, probably in the form of a letter. Say you know your grades slipped for a while, explain the situation, and mention what you did to overcome it – pointing out that grades before/after this period were more reflective of your abilities and work ethic. Be as explanatory and un-emotional as possible – you don’t want this to be an excuse, just an explanation.

      Also (if applicable):
      Ask one of your references (if they ask for reference letters) if they’d feel comfortable addressing this. It would probably have more impact that your own letter to have a professor who knows your work well explain the situation from their perspective, especially if they feel that you are a good student who generally performs at a high level.

      Is this a program where you get accepted into a particular professor’s group/lab? If so, get in touch with them! This is great to do generally in a lot of grad programs, because having someone on the inside who wants to work with you can do a lot to move your application past arbitrary grade screenings/cutoffs.

      Does your program require a standardized test score? If so, do whatever you can to DOMINATE that test. Many grad programs care more about these scores than about grades, since they are less arbitrary than school-specific grades.

      1. Mela*

        Thanks, your wording is super helpful! No test scores or acceptance into a professor’s group, but I have to provide 2 references and a third is optional. I initially was going to provide 2 professional ones, since they’re more recent and super relevant to the grad program, but I do have a professor that I clicked with in my major (same as the grad program). Should I give her all this context and ask if she can write a reference? It’s also weird because the application procedure requires me to personally upload scans of the references, so I’m not sure if she’s be comfortable with that coming from an academic background.

        1. Nye*

          Definitely ask your former professor for a third letter! Even if she’s not comfortable specifically referencing how your personal situation affected your grades, it should help to have an academic reference speak highly of your abilities as a student.

          If she’s willing to write a letter, I doubt she’ll care how it’s delivered. Just make sure she knows up front that it comes to you for scanning/uploading. (I’ve occasionally had academic references send me a copy of their letter even when they submit it directly to the university.)

          Good luck!

          1. Mela*

            Thank you for this kick in the butt! I emailed her after I saw your post and literally 4 hours later I have an amazing reference letter all set to go for my application. I had completely forgotten that I kept in touch with her a lot after college, and she had seriously wonderful things to say about me. I’m still worried about my grades, but at least I know now I’ve done everything I can to mitigate it.

            1. Nye*

              Oh, that’s wonderful! Way to go for getting in touch with her. You must have made a great impression on her, that sounds like a terrific (and really helpful) letter.

              Fingers crossed for your application – best of luck!!!

        2. JustaTech*

          It’s quite common in academia to have the professor (or whoever you’re getting a letter of recommendation from) to ask *you* to write the letter about yourself, but speaking as the professor. I think it’s super weird, but apparently that’s how things are done.

          1. Talvi*

            You know, I keep hearing about this but I’ve never actually had that experience (and I’ve had to request tons of reference letters, for everything from applying to grad programs to applying for internships). It makes me wonder if my department is just really unusual somehow!

            1. Mela*

              I haven’t either but my Mom worked for executives back in the 80’s and she said that’s how it was done. So maybe if you have a super old-school professor?

            2. Honeybee*

              I don’t think so. I’ve only been asked to do this once, and I’ve also requested tons of reference letters. I don’t think it happens as often as people think it does, although it’s certainly not uncommon either.

              And honestly, the professor who asked me was actually a younger professor on the tenure-track. She was just one of those scatterbrained professors with poor time management skills (Excellent otherwise, but it is what it is.) My old-school professors always wrote their own letters.

          2. Nye*

            I think that really depends. I’ve never run into that myself, but have had friends in the awkward situation of writing multiple letters about themselves for different references. I think it might be more common if the professor gets a ton of requests for letters, for example if the letters are for undergraduates. (Though it definitely still happens for graduate students and postdocs.)

            I did once draft a letter on behalf of my PI for an undergraduate intern who had mostly worked with me, but he used it as a starting point for his letter and as a training exercise for me. (He pointed out what he was changing/adding and why, which has been very helpful as I give my own references for students/interns.)

      2. Honeybee*

        This was going to be my suggestion. I had a downturn in grades one semester because I was suffering from anxiety and depression, and I had a professor I trusted address it in her letter of recommendation. I didn’t write anything in my personal statement. I had great success in admissions.

        I wouldn’t say that most grad programs care more about test scores than grades, though; I think it depends on the program, but grades are indicative of a long-term pattern of success in closely-related fields and is more akin to what the student will be doing in the graduate program. Test scores are performance within 3 hours in a pretty artificial setting. In my field, test scores were used as a sort of gatekeeper, but after a certain threshold they didn’t really matter anymore.

    6. Audiophile*

      This is timely. I’m in the process of applying to graduate school and my transcript isn’t stellar, no Fs but 2 Ds and 1 or 2 C-s. My GPA is also below the usual 3.0, but not very far below. I’m an 08 grad, so it’s been long enough I feel and I’ve worked in the field (and related fields) that I hope it’s enough.

      How many programs are you applying to?

      1. Mela*

        So far just the one program. The application deadline is so early and I’ll know if I get in by the end of January. If I don’t get in, I plan on applying to 2-3 other options, but their deadlines are in March.

        Your situation seems much more common that I’m sure it won’t be an issue in a professional degree program. A few eh grades almost 10 years later? I’m sure you’ll be fine, good luck!

        In my case, because I transferred, the bad grades aren’t reflected in my GPA calculation (which I guess is lucky/good?), but the admissions committee still sees them on the page.

    7. Marian the Librarian*

      I had roughly the same experience (terrible grades in a former major before switching due to events in my personal life), and just wanted to reassure you that I was able to get into my first choice graduate program. Your internships will definitely help you, as I’m sure that’s what tipped the scale for me (as well as the fact that, like yours, my grades were excellent in my eventual chosen major). Good luck!

  25. AvonLady Barksdale*

    I got the job!!! After a few meetings, a written analysis, a presentation, writing samples, references… I got a full-time job. It’s tangentially in my field– my primary focus has been teapots, but this is coffee pots, so while it’s still in hot drinks that people consume, it’s just a different type– so I’ll have a lot to learn, but I’m looking forward to it. I will be supporting the president directly in a newly-created role. The company is small but has been around for 30 years, most of them seem to like each other, and while it’s not a “cool” place, I’m looking so forward to working there. The one not-great part is that I took a big cut in base pay, but they’re making up for my asking base (which was already a $10k cut) with a sizeable year-end bonus, so it all evens out. My last job didn’t offer medical or dental and this one does (100%), so I won’t be spending $6500 out-of-pocket, after taxes, on my healthcare next year.

    I’m staying at my retail gig through December (commitment, a little extra cash, big discount on great products), so it will be a very busy month, but I am so, so relieved and excited. Thanks to everyone who listened to me whine these past few months!

      1. AvonLady Barksdale*

        Mostly! I am also willing to take this cut because I’ll get much more flexibility, a slower pace (it was described to me thusly: “Compared to other jobs you’ve had, I think you might find it… leisurely”), a better office environment, the opportunity to learn something new, reasonable expectations (12-18 months to master the role, as opposed to 3 months with no training), and a boss who seems to care about being a good boss. He also said flat-out that in a couple of years, if we end up moving somewhere (my partner is a doctoral student), that he is completely open to remote work. It just feels like a much better fit for my style and personality, and for that, I’ll take the cut.

        Also, not for nothing, my past salaries were based around NYC rates, and I live somewhere with a much lower cost of living.

    7. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Thanks, everyone! This will be an interesting couple of months, and I’m looking so forward to it.

  26. Dave*

    Started my new job this week! Hooray!

    A couple of questions I thought I’d throw out here.

    1) In my offer, it specified that I would receive 3 vacation days and 1 personal day to be used by the end of the calendar year. Because I started in mid-November, that’s not a lot of time to use them. I’d like to use them around Christmas, but I am not sure when it is politic to ask my manager for a day off. I feel as though I am entitled to these days, but I also think it’s strange to just start and immediately request time off. What do you all think?

    2) One thing that’s… concerning is that I haven’t received any training whatsoever. I had an orientation session with HR but it was all about benefits, getting a tour, and so on. My manager’s been largely absent this week (I assume for good reasons) but I’ve been given no real tasks to perform or any instruction as to how I fit into the organization or anything like that. Now I have a project meeting this afternoon, but I am not sure what is expected of me in the meeting. It’s a bit strange. I emailed my manager yesterday to ask to touch base before the meeting, but she is working from home today and hasn’t responded.

    1. Emily the Analyst*

      For the first question I would request off today. Holiday slots fill up quick and you don’t want to miss out.
      Question 2. I have also recently started a new job and they said training happens during peak times (quarterly), but I was encouraged to do all of the corporate training and policy review.

      Good luck!

    2. MsCHX*

      It is really tough to take time off when you’ve just begun a new job.

      I would ask your manager for their suggestions; or if it’s feasible to carryover the 3 vacation days (or use 1 personal, 1 vacation and carryover 2). 4 days off, in what equates to about 28 ish days, is a lot…even if it is okay with the company. If they insist it’s okay and you take the 4 days, you’ll probably have to take what you can get.

      Many companies have really poor onboarding processes. I am sorry this is happening to you. Ask to shadow someone on your team. If you don’t have anyone, attend the meeting, take notes, etc. Hopefully your manager is ready to get you going next week (which, IMO she probably should’ve started you next week).

    3. AvonLady Barksdale*

      For the meeting, sit tight. Wait and see. They all know you’re new. Take some notes, but don’t go in there thinking you’ll have to say much. I’ll bet your manager will get back to you beforehand– at least, I hope she will!

    4. Poster Child*

      For the vacation days, confirm that you cannot roll them over to next year and must use them this year (it sounds like you do but a lot of companies will allow you to roll over some number of hours or days). If you do need to use them, then you should talk to your manager about it. She might prefer to give you some vacation time off the books after the new year instead, or it might be that business is very slow around the holidays and it’s perfectly fine to take them this year.
      Your second question is concerning because for any hiring manager with a new employee, the priority in their first week should be onboarding you: training/orientation to the department and job duties/setting goals and expectations. If the hiring manager has personal or work reasons she cannot be there, she should delegate some of the training to a senior team member. Are there any other colleagues you can ask for help or that also report to your manager and can tell you what is typical?

    5. Sibley*

      1. Ask your manager what’s typical. “hey, I was told I’d have this time available to use, but I know it’s mid November and I’m brand new. How is this handled?

      2. If you don’t hear from your manager: show up, be polite, attentive, take notes and if you have a clue what’s going on and have something pertinent to contribute, do so.

    6. zora*

      Just ask for the days! As long as you make it clear you are asking, not demanding, it is then up to them to say no. The vast majority of people in the US are expected to take some days off around Christmas, this will not be a huge, weird surprise to your company! ;o)

      I would say something like: “Hey boss, I’m thinking of taking my 3 vacation days on 12/17-12/29, if that works for you. Or I’m flexible if there are different days that are more convenient for the department.” If you work for a decent boss, they will be straightforward about letting you know whether that is okay with them. This is part of your compensation, you are entitled to at least ask when you can take them! Don’t feel guilty!

  27. Maya*

    A little over a month ago, I had a phone interview for a job that I thought went pretty well. But unfortunately, I wasn’t considered further after that. This morning however, I see the exact same position posted and now I’m wondering if it would look crazy of me to throw my hat in the ring again. Should I bother? I kind of want to reach out to the hiring manager directly but I’m not sure what to say. Help?!

    1. Leatherwings*

      I wouldn’t. They already interviewed you once and decided you weren’t a fit right now. I think it would come across as a bit naive to apply again, but more importantly I think it would be a waste of time.

    2. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I would personally let it go. They interviewed you, they decided you weren’t the right fit, they moved on. They haven’t forgotten about you. Presumably they would have reached out if they wanted to reconsider anyone they had previously rejected.

    3. Lily in NYC*

      Sorry, if it was only a month ago I wouldn’t do it. It was recent enough that they would call you about the new position if you were a top candidate last time.

    5. MsCHX*

      Don’t do it.

      They didn’t choose you and in my own experience, the one time I worked for a company that didn’t initially choose me was literally the worst experience of my entire professional career.

      1. Lily in NYC*

        Oh, I don’t know – that’s just one experience! I was the second choice for a job and the woman they hired only made it two weeks before they fired her. They asked me if I was still interested and I jumped at the chance and it ended up being the best job I’ve ever had, by far.

        1. MsCHX*

          OP wasn’t the 2nd choice. If OP were the 2nd choice they would have called her when choice #1 didn’t work out.

          1. Honeybee*

            I know other people who have gotten a job on the second or third time they applied and had it work out well for them. Two of my current coworkers are in that situation. It entirely depends on the situation and the company’s culture.

            Also, you don’t know that she wasn’t the 2nd choice. The exact same position being posted a month later doesn’t mean that #1 didn’t work it – it could mean that another coworker gave notice just recently and left, or that they finally got approval for another head in the department.

      2. Audiophile*

        As someone who’s working a job where I was initially rejected (actually ghosted on) a year before I reapplied, it can definitely be a blessing in disguise. I’m glad to have a job, but they definitely did me a favor when they rejected me a year ago. It’s been insane since I started during the summer.

  28. Gandalf the Nude*

    Suggestions for addressing abuse of the High Importance marker on email? This person (colleague, not subordinate, slightly senior) doesn’t use it on every single email, but it’s a close enough thing.

    To be fair, this guy tends to inflate the importance of things in person and over the phone too. I just don’t think he has very good judgment on these sorts of things. So this is probably more symptom than anything, but I know at least a couple of us have started slipping into de-prioritizing his messages when they come in, so we might eventually miss something that is urgent, boy who cried wolf style.

    1. Lily in NYC*

      Unless you are his boss, I would just let it go. Just use your judgment and prioritize how you see fit.

    2. NW Mossy*

      It would be a kindness to the guy if you say, “I noticed that almost all of the requests we see from you are marked as urgent, and I wanted to talk about it. When you use it that often, it makes it hard for us to understand what order you’d like us to tackle them in, since it’s not possible to do them all first – ABC, BCA, CAB, and CBA all could be possibilities when they’re all marked urgent. Is there another method we can use to help make sure we’re meeting your expectations?”

      The problem here is that he’s not applying any judgment beyond “everything is urgent,” leaving you to guess at his priorities. It’s totally fair of you to call out that issue and solicit his help. If he then doesn’t change, you can remind him that if he doesn’t prioritize between his requests, you’ll do it for him and he may not agree with the choices you make.

      1. E*

        Adding to this, suggest that he include a proposed deadline in the subject line instead of using the flag every time. “Budget Update – Due by COB Friday” is much clearer than just an urgent flag.

    3. Sadsack*

      I wouldn’t change how his emails are handled by your email system. I would just choose to ignore the high importance flag if it isn’t warranted.

    4. Hallway Feline*

      A rule of thumb in our company culture: Only use High Importance flags if it is important TO THE RECEIVER. That means while it may be high importance to me, maybe it’s not to the person I’m sending it to. The only reason to use it outside of that context is if an emergency/fire popped up (ex: biggest client suddenly wants their project moved up 3 weeks).

    5. ThisIsNotWhoYouThinkItIs*

      I never really found a way.

      I told the person politely “(urgent overuse makes it hard to determine what is truly urgent, and I don’t want to end up missing something critical. ‘House on fire and has to be completed today’ is my rating for the urgent mark. Please use sparingly.”).

      Then, after I got too annoyed, I just made an outlook rule that said “if from X and marked URGENT, mark regular importance”.

      1. Gandalf the Nude*

        Y’know, I think that might actually be the way to go. It will stop me from stressing about it, which is probably the most important thing right now. If it’s not marked High Importance, I’ll won’t be distracted from prioritizing it appropriately.

    6. Nanc*

      “You keep using that !. I do not think it means what you think it means.”

      Yeah, since you can’t type in an Inigo Montoya accent that probably won’t help.

      1. TootsNYC*

        oh, wouldn’t that be a great font?

        Someone needs to get on that–specialized fonts that, when you click on them in an email, then say the typed words in the appropriate accent.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      “Bob, you mark so many things as urgent, I have to tell you, that people are starting to ignore things from you marked as urgent.”

      Then let him figure it out.

      There is a deeper issue here. He probably covertly feels that people will not answer him if he uses a normal pace/tone. Yeah, you could be looking at a problem with deep roots.
      So you could try saying, “Bob, you don’t have to mark everything as urgent. We will answer you, we will not ignore you, I promise.”

  29. Franzia Spritzer*

    I have attended a two-year graduate program and graduated with a terminal degree. Midway through the program I determined that the program and I weren’t an ideal fit, my advisors pushed me to create a thesis project I wasn’t into (and I don’t think is good enough to “publish”), and I was unsupported in the work I wanted to be focusing on, I was told to do that work you want to do as an afterthought if I had time, but focus on the thing they were advising me to follow. I did the work they asked me to do and I’m not excited about it. I kind of feel like an advanced degree and the project that I earned said degree with are going to cost me an arm and a leg, I should at least be excited about it. I may be out of line here.

    I stuck with the program, and my advisors because I tend to have crippling swings of “Am I doing the right thing?” with a dash of my grandfather’s voice telling me about how disappointed he was in my dad for never finishing anything, as a result I finish things, everything. One thing I cannot be accused of is quitting, perhaps to my own detriment. So here I am with a mediocre unpublishable project and a deep sense of making an expensive mistake.
    I also did the work I wanted to make and I’m very, very proud of it and wish like crazy that I had the two years of this program back so that I could be making more work like that project, writing more about that kind of research and theorizing on the things related to the work I am interested in doing, it’s profound, contextual and really gets at something important in my field.

    In my field an advanced degree is essential for professional development and hireability, where one gets said degree is marginally important, the type of program you get the string of letters from is more important. Applying for the work I want, I have found this to be brutally true. Applicants are expressly required to have type A terminal degree (practice) especially excluding type B terminal degree (theory/practice) with a list of examples, mine is on that list, (sometimes these lists don’t make any sense, as if they’re antiquated requirements). I have type A bachelor’s and type B master’s degrees. I really like theory AND practice! Go figure.

    Because of my lingering deep dissatisfaction with my terminal degree, and my sense that it is blocking my professional goals I’m wondering what my options are. Enroll in another program to get the right kind of degree, get an additional degree, (I’ve been interested in a PhD since day one, so it’s not too far fetched), or just make the most out of the degree I have, make the work, do the research and publish the papers outside of the academy? I feel I’m at a crossroads of, ditching the time and effort of my degrees and my beloved field just to be working at all, or keep pushing on in the academy.

    Unfortunately I’m not independently wealthy.

    1. A Plain-Dealing Villain*

      Honestly, I’d suggest making it work with the degrees you have. I’m not sure the education pile on (PhD) would be helpful to you at this point. Publish your work independently, then tailor your resume for each job. If you want work in A, focus on your bachelors degree and related work. If you want work in B, focus on your masters. You didn’t mention if there are any jobs that do crossover work related to both, but it may be something to look into.

      1. self employed*

        Agreed. Is if a creative degree (MFA)? If so, do the work you want to do and hustle to get it published. That’s what counts.

    2. Overeducated*

      I could have written your post, except substitute “master’s” with “phd” and “expensive” with “opportunity cost.” I would not recommend going for a PhD if practice is important for your field. I wish i had more applied experience, and that can also open up publication opportunities. Without more details I can’t really advise, but don’t rush into a phd program foR at least a couple years.

    3. Annby*

      Do not enroll in an unfunded PhD program! If it’s something you want to do and you can get a stipend/fellowship/research assistantship/teaching assistantship/whatever to support yourself, that’s a different story. But there’s no sense (IMO) in going into debt while also pushing your professional goals even further into the future.

    4. Student*

      Ok, so – the dirty secret of job listings is that they are all poorly written garbage. They have a lot of copy-paste from older job descriptions. They have a lot of filler from middlemen who feel like they must contribute some word salad even though they won’t interact with the applicant professionally. They have crap that is meaningless, misleading, or mistaken.

      Nobody actually expects you to meet all the exact requirements. Lots of people apply to and get jobs when they only meet about half the requirements – this is not even counting the nice-to-haves.

      Just apply for the jobs you want, and continue to rack up real-world experience in your field. It only takes a year or two to get enough real-world experience in something that nobody cares about your exact degree. It takes longer to get the PhD most of the time. The key is being able to explain how you can relate your degree and experience to the things your prospective employer cares about. Anticipate a question about your degree not matching exactly and explain why that’ll be okay – you understand the gap and are working to bridge it, or you’ve already bridged it in such a way in your current/past work. THEN tell them that your slightly nonstandard background give you these other insights/experiences that they will like, to offset the bits they feel you are missing.

    5. Gay Babe*

      I think it’s a bad idea to go further into debt for more graduate schooling right now. I would advise one of the following options:
      1) Enroll in a *fully funded* PhD program. These are competitive, and, depending on your field, possibly far-flung. If you are unable to move for school or you don’t feel confident that your performance thusfar will impress a selection committee, proceed to 2.
      2) Get work experience in your field. Progress as far as you can without another degree, and get as close as you can to the research/theory/practice you’re excited about. When/if you hit a wall progress wise, revisit the matter of further grad schooling.

    6. Honeybee*

      Unless you want to do something highly specific that requires a PhD – usually something research- or evaluation-related, or if you need licensure to counsel as a psychologist or something – a PhD probably won’t help much, especially if applicants are usually required to have a practice degree.

      Are there certifications that you can get that can help you move laterally into a type B master’s required job? Or is there work that’s at the crossroads of theory and practice that can help you move that way after some networking?

  30. Mustache Cat*

    I feel as if every year, starting from November and ending in February, I get hit by a huge amount of seasonally-correlated job regret. This has been true in two different jobs that I generally enjoyed, but where I spent wintertimes fantasizing about animal-related professions.

    Because I can’t seem to convince myself of what I already know, which is that these feelings will blow over soon, does anyone have ideas for how to transfer into a more zoological line of work? I already volunteer, and I don’t have much more time to devote in that direction. Should I go back for a masters?

    1. Wild at Heart*

      If the place you volunteer with is zoological, I would ask the staff there for recommendations. Even if you’re not interested in turning that particular volunteer position into a career, they can probably give you some guidance.

      Not to play online diagnosis but do you think you might have that seasonal depression disorder? A friend of mine has it and during those same winter months, she gets really depressed. Usually not about anything specific but perhaps, if you might have it, your depression is being channeled into and expanding on some small job insecurities you have inside. Just a thought!

      Good luck!

      1. Cathy*

        +1000! I found that my annual ‘holiday letdown’ is actually SAD*. A super simple way to combat this is to either go outside for 30 minutes a day – if you can’t do that, do what I did. I bought a full spectrum plant light and put it in my office. Worked like a charm!

        *I find it supremely satisfying that the acronym for Seasonal Affective Disorder actually spells out the main symptom LOL

    2. Dealthwiththis*

      Hi there, as someone who works in an animal care field, I can tell you that a masters is probably the worst thing you can do to get into this field. Volunteering is a step in the right direction. Since these careers are typically paid so low, seeing that you have a masters would probably make most hiring managers immediately pass you over for those that are coming out of school because they will assume that they can’t pay you enough to have you stick around for long. Animal care experience is valued much more over education in this field.

      Unpaid animal care internships or volunteer opportunities are your best bet. If you can’t do that, get a dog and train it well and then put that on your resume.

      If you know it will blow over, I suggest taking a visit to your local Zoo and hanging out in the petting zoo for a few hours until you’ve got your fix. :) This line of work is tough, you usually don’t have weekends or holidays off and you are working outside in the heat and cold. That might make you appreciate your current job :)

    3. Zip Silver*

      I know the feeling. I really regret not doing a stint in the Army. I’m young enough to still do it, but I have to much debt to do it :/

  31. Manders*

    I’ve been extra cranky this week. My company is slightly outgrowing its office space, and people got shuffled around so I’m now in a small room with two people who have to be on the phone most of the day. The problem: I work on content writing and other tasks that require concentration, and in order to do my work without getting distracted I need to put earplugs in, then put noise-cancelling headphones over that, then blast music to drown out the noise. The headphones aren’t very comfortable and I’m getting headaches from wearing them all day. People also walk in and out of the office to chat during the day and I’m having a hard time resisting the distraction.

    There is one spot in the office I could move to, but it would inconvenience my grandboss, who was planning to move there. I’m also not sure if this is the hill I want to die on right now. I was told when I interviewed for this job that they only expected people to stick around in this position for a year or two, and I’ve now passed the year mark. I could put up with this for a few more months, but it’s not something that’s tenable for another year. If I don’t speak up ASAP, grandboss will take the one available space and there will be nowhere for me to move.

    What would you do in my position? Make a fuss and try to get moved, knowing it will inconvenience someone higher up the ladder? Put up with it quietly and job search? I hadn’t planned to start looking until mid-2017, but now I’m thinking I should speed up that timeline.

    1. NarrowDoorways*

      They said they didn’t expect people to stay for more than a year or two? WTH? Could you try asking to work from home occasionally? I’m basically in the same boat as you, but can fortunately find the occasional free conference room to focus when everyone gets loud.

      1. Manders*

        I actually did appreciate the fact that they were upfront with me about how long employees in my position usually stayed. This is a nice entry-level position for my field, but it’s a small family-run company and there’s no path to promotion because there’s no position to get promoted into.

        Working from home is not allowed at this company, period. And I have a desktop computer, so I can’t move into a conference room to work. I want to be a good sport, but I can tell that my work is suffering, it’s so hard to proofread when you’re distracted.

      2. CMT*

        I think there are actually quite a few jobs like this. I don’t think it’s a bad thing, and it’s actually good when an employer is upfront about it.

        1. Manders*

          Yeah! They’ve been kind to me and have invested quite a bit in my training. I’m feeling guilty now because I know I’m not doing my best possible work in this situation.

    2. Future Analyst*

      I think you should ask to move. Worst case scenario, they say no, and you start your job search. Best case scenario, they say yes, and when you leave in mid- to late-2017, your grandboss would still have access to the space.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      I would do all of it.
      I would push for an office space. It’s not up to you to protect your grandboss, she can protect herself quite well. If you can use the space ask. They will tell you no if they need to.

      And I would start the job hunt now. By June of next year you are going to feel worse than you do now. Start now. Maybe you will get out by March, let’s say. What you have going on does not sound sustainable even for six or seven months.

    4. Honeybee*

      A and B. I’d speak up and voice the need for a quiet place for writing and concentration. Then, regardless of the outcome of that, I’d start looking for new employment.

  32. Camellia*

    So yesterday was my birthday and I got a bit retrospective…

    Things at work that don’t bother me anymore:

    Violations of the dress code. I just don’t care if you wear flip-flops or leggings or printed t-shirts or scruffy khakis or whatever.

    People on their phones in the restrooms. Sorry, just don’t care anymore if the person on the other end of your call can hear me peeing. If they were actually IN the restroom they would hear me, so what’s the diff? And no, gender diff doesn’t change my don’t-care-ness.

    THAT’S NOT FAIR!! This was my cry when I first started in the professional world. I came from a blue collar world and naively thought that white collar would be different. Thirty years later, I don’t care if you or your team is enjoying an ‘unofficial’ perk that my team cannot have right now, due to our stick-up-his-@$$ manager. I won’t complain because the only probable result is that it would force someone official to notice it and then it would be taken away from everyone. Instead, I’m actually glad someone gets it and, hey, managers don’t always stick around forever, so maybe the next manager (or the next group I go to) will be more flexible.

    People who waste time doing anything but work. I don’t even care if it is affecting my work. I have enough to do that, if I’m waiting on you for something, I’ll just switch off and work on something else. It all gets done eventually. (In all fairness, I think this works in CurrentJob because we have daily status meetings, so no one can slack off for TOO long.)

    Other stuff:

    Gossips: I am a very private person and very closed mouth. I don’t gossip. Period. This has lead to a surprising number of people trusting me with confidential information. They get to vent/share/whatever because they know I won’t tell anyone, and I get sometimes surprising insights into the political and personal workings of a company. Of course, there are those who just want to dish the bad about other people and don’t warm up to me because I don’t reciprocate, but, dare I reiterate it, I don’t care.

    So, am I just getting too old or have I actually made progress as a human being?

    1. Confused Publisher*

      Or, we’ve all been reading AAM, know how much worse it could be, and you’re now wise enough to appreciate where you’re at. :)

      Also, belated happy birthday.

    2. Kai*

      Sounds like progress to me! It can be such a relief to decide that you just don’t mind certain things anymore.

  33. rosenstock (prev. unsettled)*

    (posted again because the first one didn’t post – i apologize if this double posts!)

    hi, i’m the girl who had to bandage her boss’s knee a few months ago – askamanager(.)org/2016/08/open-thread-august-26-27-2016(.)html#comment-1187136

    happy to report that i’ve been job searching for about a month and i have two interviews lined up – one at another law firm and one at a nonprofit – and one is this afternoon! things have only gotten crazier. my boss raises his voice at me daily and my nerves are shot. please wish me luck in leaving this situation.

    1. Mimmy*

      Your original post probably went into moderation – this occurs when you include a link (i.e. the link to your post in a previous open thread). Once Alison sees it, she releases it from moderation.

      Good luck in your interviews!

    3. FiveWheels*

      No, never. If they want me they can leave amessage or send a text. If there’s no message, the message is they don’t want a call.

  34. Librarian Ish*

    OK silly phone etiquette question. If you miss a call and someone doesn’t leave a message, do you call the number back?

    2. Camellia*

      Hate to say it, but it depends. My daughter’s generation doesn’t leave phone messages – if you see they’ve called, they are expecting you to call them when you can. Also, for me, if I don’t recognize the number I won’t return the call.

      1. Honeybee*

        That’s only if you know the person, though (I’m assuming you are talking about millennials?). If I get a call from an unknown number I expect them to leave a message.

    4. Leatherwings*

      I usually google the number, and if I can figure out who it was (like my apartment building or a work vendor or something) I’ll call back. Otherwise I just figure they’d leave a message if it was important.

      1. Audiophile*

        I do this all the time. This is the easiest solution I’ve found. You can usually figure out if it’s a corporation or a if it’s just a sales call.

        Rarely, if I’m actively searching, have I had employers NOT leave a message.

    6. Kelly L.*

      Nope, unless I can tell who it is and they’re either closely connected to me (relative, boss) or I was expecting the call. On my personal phone, if I don’t know the number, I assume it’s not legit unless there’s a message explaining. At work, I assume that they changed their mind or asked someone else. If they wanted me to respond, they’d leave a dang message.

      1. Talvi*

        Pretty much this. If they didn’t leave a message, I assume that it’s either a) not important, or b) they’ll try again later.

    7. Anna*

      Nope. If they don’t leave a message and just magically assume I’ll call back, I’ve got better things to do than try to figure out who they are. To the point about certain generation not leaving messages, I work with 16 to 24 year olds and I’ve never had one who called me not leave a message if they wanted me to call back. They know what voicemail is for and how to use it.

      1. Honeybee*

        Yeah, I’m 30 – an older millennial, but still a millennial – and I leave messages on my friends’ phones when I call them and they leave messages on mine. I do have some friends who don’t leave messages, but only for people they know in their personal life. They would still leave a message for professional contacts.

    8. Manders*

      I do on my cell phone, because I have a sick relative and you never know if it’s a call from a hospital or something. Most of the time it’s just phone spammers, though.

      My work phone system doesn’t have any way of telling me if someone called and didn’t leave a message, so if there’s nothing on voice mail I’ll never know it happened.

      1. LCL*

        Me too. I have to follow up on calls because of my relative.
        I will check before I call if I am close to a computer. I don’t delete junk calls, I save them in my directory as ‘spam’ so I know I can ignore that number if I get a repeat call.

    9. tink*

      Only if I recognize the number. Otherwise… nope. If it’s important, leave me a message or follow up in an e-mail or something.

    10. Annie Moose*

      Nope. If it’s important for someone to talk to me, they can leave a message (or text me, which is my preferred method of communication anyway). If it’s not important enough for them to leave a message, then it’s not important enough for me to call them back.

      Exceptions are made for family members. If they called me instead of texting, it’s probably something time-sensitive or that needs to be discussed “in person”. (e.g. a family emergency)

    11. Lia*

      In my office, YES. That is the default “call me back” here for our team.

      I find it incredibly annoying but I seem to be the only one.

    12. MC*

      If it’s an unrecognizable number or trunk number no. If the number is 212 555 1000 then it’s a trunk number and you end up calling a receptionist or switchboard and saying “someone from this number called me” and who ever is answering the phone likely can’t help you.

      If it’s recognizable, especially if it’s a stored number in my phone – yes I will call back.

    14. Jennifer*

      This is an “it depends” question. Some people just use that as their version of leaving a message and some don’t.

      I don’t actually want to call you back if I don’t absolutely have to, so if you don’t tell me somehow what you wanted, I’m not going to bother. Especially if it’s some strange number that’s probably a telemarketer call.

    15. katamia*

      I usually don’t, but then I hate the phone and everyone who knows me knows that email is the best way to reach me. I’ll often Google the number, though, and see if it’s anyone I might want to talk to. In my case it never is, but in your case it could be.

    16. emvic*

      Depends on where you are on the Globe. AFAIK, Europeans usually tend to call back, at least more than Americans do. Where I live people call back unknown numbers, my guess being that we don’t really have that many vendors trying to sell by phone. Unlimited plans help also. I called back several times what proved in the end to be vendors, and each time they either didn’t answer but called back, or rejected my call and called back immediately.

    17. Evergreen*

      At work my MO is something like this (we all use mobiles so know who has called pretty much always):
      – if you’re probably calling to discuss a particular urgent issue, I’ll call back
      – if you’re perhaps calling to discuss something you perceive as urgent (but I don’t agree) I’ll send a short email outlining my availability to discuss by phone
      – otherwise no (including if I don’t recognise the number or if it’s a bolt out of nowhere). And never on my personal phone (unless I’m waiting on a delivery, or application or something)

    18. EmmaLou*

      Only if it’s a parent, and since they are all gone now except one of my husband’s, if one of them calls, I am calling right back! Otherwise, I’m going to assume it’s not important because you didn’t leave a message.

    19. Not So NewReader*

      This is funny. We have had other threads with people complaining about people who call back even though there was no message left.

      I do not call people who do not leave a message. I very seldom check my caller ID unless I am waiting for a SUPER important call. This means maybe once every five years I check my caller ID.

      The nature of my work is such that people tend to call me back with or without a message. They more or less have to call me back. I find that an amazing number of people do NOT have their voice mail set up and yet they will leave messages for me to call them back. These voice mail-less people also do not answer their phones. Personally, I wonder why they even have phones if they do not use them.

      I would say that easily half of these voice mail-less, non-answering people DO call me back just from the caller ID. It’s very funny to watch.

  35. plip*

    Interviewers looking at their watches constantly – anyone else find this unnerving? Interview went ok I would have said but for all the interview panel frequently checking their watches while I was talking!

    1. MsCHX*

      That is annoying. I would say they should have one timekeeper (because it IS important to stay within the allotted time) but everyone checking is rude.

    3. BRR*

      I wouldn’t like it but I could see being an interview and wanting to make sure I’m done on time so as not to hold up the process if there are others after me and also to make sure I have asked my big questions.

      1. BRR*

        I would say though if I was an interview that I’m checking just to make sure we keep running on time and apologize because it comes off as rude.

    4. Formica Dinette*

      That is super annoying. We recently had a candidate in for interviews with several of us in succession (as opposed to a longer group interview). I don’t know what the other interviewers did, but because the schedule was very tight, I sat in easy view of the clock and warned the candidate up front that I would be keeping an eye on it near the end of our session.

  36. Rob from NYC*

    Hey all, I posted here on an open thread a while back about a person at my company (it’s a big company and we don’t work together so I don’t call her a co-worker) who keeps making advances on me.

    I followed some of the advice I got on here: I mention I have a girlfriend whenever she tries to start a conversation with me, and I even get up and walk away whenever I’m working and she sits down for lunch right next to me (our company has an open plan office).

    But that stuff hasn’t done anything. She keeps coming in down to stare at me or approach me, and a few times she’s started touching me. The first time she did I shouted “Hey! Personal space!” But she said “I don’t know what you’re talking about” and everyone else looked at me like I was a weirdo.

    I went to HR after this, because she basically grabbed my butt. HR says they did an investigation and didn’t find anything so nothing has happened except for me feeling like an office pariah.

    I’m thinking about quitting over this, but I also want to give my boss an ultimatum about it. Or at least tell him that if nobody does anything about this he’s going to lose a good employee. Is it worth bringing this up with him, not in a “if you don’t get herfired right now I’m going to quit right now” way but a “she’s gone beyond being a creep, this is now sexual harassment, and how this is handled in the immediate future is going to define how my stay at this company goes” way?

    1. Lemon Zinger*

      You should call the police if she assaults you, which it sounds like she did.

      Definitely talk to your boss and say how unacceptable this is, and that you don’t feel safe in the workplace.

      1. Rob from NYC*

        I feel like my company is the type that’d fire someone for doing that. It would look horrible for them, but I’d be the one out of a job and my name would be plastered all over the media and search engines. Hate to be negative, but I feel like “She’s sexually assaulted me, according to the employee handbook that’s what this was. If we’re not doing something about this right now, I’m quitting” would probably be better. And it’s a bad idea.

        (Sorry for the late reply. I don’t use computers much over the weekend!)

    2. One Handed Typist*

      Have people been treating you differently since you went to HR? Has she backed off since you went to HR?

      Ultimatums are never successful; not in a meaningful way. Having a conversation with your boss is well worth the effort, especially if you explain to him that the harassment has you considering leaving the company. Frankly, I think this is a double-standard. If you were a female reporting this, they would take it seriously, but because you are male, they just think you are overreacting.

      “Feeling like an office pariah” isn’t good after a trip to HR but is it based on actions or your feelings? As in do you feel uncomfortable or do their actions make you uncomfortable? It’s a hard conversation to have with yourself but it may help you release some stress. If the office is changing their behavior around you because of this, then that is definitely something your boss needs to be made aware of.

    3. Audiophile*

      Oh no, that’s not ok at all.

      I’m female and I had a coworker do this (we were all from a staffing agency). So I reported it to my direct supervisor from the staffing agency, who laughed as I told him what was going on. After that I went to the client, and specifically the manager of the department I worked with, because it was really making me uncomfortable and they took action, largely because they were afraid I’d sue (they were a large financial company.)

      Since it sounds like you’re a direct employee, I would definitely speak to HR again. But I would also say to the aggressor, and it sounds like you’ve done this, “stop touching me.” I know the double standard exists, and I think it’s horrible, but that doesn’t mean you need to put up with it. Definitely push back.

    4. BRR*

      This is definitely something to bring to your manager. A good or even reasonable manager would be horrified this happened and would want to know. Take a look in your employee handbook because it’s probably addressed there and you might be able to cite the policy. I would say something like “Jane sexually harassed me. I reported it to HR but they did not find anything after an investigation. ” You can also go back to HR and say “this has been going on repeatedly, what will be done about it?” I wouldn’t phrase it as an ultimatum though.

      I would make sure you have written documentation of reporting the harassment to your manager and HR and HR’s reply. And follow up with an email with a subject like “Sexual Harassment Complaint” where you can say you’re documenting or following up your conversation so it’s crystal clear and bcc yourself to a non-work email.

      Always remember that you did nothing wrong, she did. Is it possible others are taking their cues from you about it or that your perception is off which commonly happens in these types of situations?

    5. neverjaunty*

      1) You should also talk to a lawyer in your area who specializes in representing employees. A lawyer can help you plan your exit from this crappy company.

      2) Don’t just talk to people. Follow up in writing any time you get something verbally, and print copies of any communications. (So, for example, if an HR person told you verbally “we didn’t find anything”, then email her: “Hi, Jane, I was just confirming that I understood you correctly. When we spoke this morning you said that you had looked into my report that Grabbinia has been harassing me and actually touched me inappropriately last Friday. You told me that you had done an investigation and couldn’t substantiate my complaint. Please let me know if I misunderstood you.”

      (There are two reasons for #2. One, so that you have written documentation of your efforts to go through channels. Two, because any half-sentinent manager will realize that you are about to be All Done and are creating a paper trail that is not going to lead anywhere happy for them, should they continue to coddle your harasser.)

    6. Not So NewReader*

      Don’t give ultimatums unless you are prepared to be jobless.

      To me worse than being jobless is to be so disrespected.

      Being on a tight budget myself, I think I might check with the Department of Labor as opposed to getting a private attorney. Get something from them. Go back to HR, your boss and say “oh, Look. This is what the DOL said.”

      I have to say that this ticks me off to the nth degree. If a guy did this he would be bouncing out the door on his butt. Why the different standard for women?

      Meanwhile, keep a written record of every time she comes near you. Just to be safe, keep a copy of the record at home.

    7. LizB*

      I don’t have any advice to offer, but I wanted to say I’m so sorry this is happening to you. This woman’s behavior is completely unacceptable, and it sucks that the rest of your company isn’t backing you up.

    8. ginger ale for all*

      In addition to the suggestion of speaking to your boss about it, would you be comfortable talking to an office friend about this? The possible scenario I thought of is when she starts pawing you, you tell her clearly to stop and you could have a witness for this. Another way it could go is that you and your friend both tell her to stop.

  37. Camry*

    I’m severely introverted and a new employee starting sharing my office on Monday. I’m struggling with this because I’ve been by myself for 6 months and I need some help being assertive for my own sanity.

    Some of the things he does:
    * Stands so close to me that I can feel his breath on my face. He’ll also stand close and if I move at all I brush against him. For the record I don’t get the impression that this is creepy behavior but more of him not having any boundaries. I have intentionally brushed him or given him side-eye when he stands too close.
    * He belches, snorts mucous, hums and talks to himself all day. I may have a little misophonia so I put on my headphones. He still tries to talk to me while headphones are in.
    * We have a cubicle separating us plus a panel with a half window. If i’m talking with someone in my cubicle he will lean back and stare/join in the conversation while staring at me through the window. I will ignore him and pretend he is not there but it’s bothersome. He also stares through the window when he talks to me (will just blurt out stuff while I’m working) or will scoot his char into my cubicle. Sometimes he will do this and not say a word – just sit there and stare. I have asked him, “Do you need something?” and he’ll say “I have a question,” etc.
    * We share an office with my cubicle seated beside a window with a large windowsill. Sometimes he will come over, push my things aside, and sit down on the windowsill. He has also been taking things off my desk and when I told him that we had a supply cabinet he said he knew.
    * He interjects in my conversations and tries to assert his authority/knowledge when he doesn’t yet fully understand his position.

    I’m sure a lot if this is petty but as an introvert it causes me a lot of recurring anxiety. How can I transition into having someone in my office without losing my mind?

    1. Catalin*

      “Please don’t do that.”
      Him: “I’m not doing anything”
      You: “I prefer my space/please don’t move my things/don’t use me as a supply closet/I feel like you’re staring at me/(Whatever he does you don’t like)
      Per the rude interjections, sarcasm might be your friend.
      Per unreasonable requests for you to do something beyond your scope (where he shouldn’t give you any direction because he’s not superior or a solid peer), my catchphrase is a painfully dry, “Yeah, Ima get right on that”. *This is a power tool for combatting mansplaining and misplaced condescension*

    2. Annie Moose*

      Gah, that sounds awful. That is totally not normal office-sharing behavior. He’s a weirdo who is way outside norms. It might help to come up with a script for each of those scenarios, even though there’s a lot of them… just be firm and consistent about it. And practice them so you’ve got them ready to go when the time comes. And repeat them constantly until he gets tired of it and knocks it off.

      e.g. he stands very close to you: “Could you step back? You’re REALLY close to me.”

      e.g. he talks to you when your headphones are on: “When I have my headphones on, it’s because I’m focusing on something. Please [IM me/email me/knock on my desk] to get my attention instead.” And feel free to ignore him when you have headphones on until he contacts you through your preferred method, just pretend you have your volume up so loud you can’t hear him.

      e.g. he takes things off his desk: be SUPER CLEAR about this. I know you shouldn’t have to, but clearly this guy is out of control, so tell him explicitly. “Do not take things off of my desk. If you need [office supply], get it from the supply closet.” “Do not move things on my windowsill, you have a chair to sit on.”

      It sounds like he’s taking advantage of your niceness/totally reasonable desire to avoid conflict to get what he wants. Definitely push back!!

    3. Rex*

      Ugh, sharing an office with someone with no boundaries is the worst! You’re going to have to be more direct with him.

      “You’re standing too close, please back up a little.”
      “I can’t talk right now, I’m under a deadline.” (Keep your headphones in and do your best to ignore the noises.)
      “If you need something work-related, please just come over and ask.” (Alternatively, can you block the window
      with something?)
      “Please don’t take my XXX, I need it.”
      “Excuse me, I was talking. Please don’t interrupt.”

      It is not petty, it’s okay to say these things.

      1. Drew*

        +1 to blocking the window. “I realized I wanted to put my calendar there where I could consult it but it wasn’t always in my line of sight.”

          1. Drew*

            Nthed. This guy is at best clueless about his behavior; I’d be more inclined to think he’s just a jerk.

      2. Not So NewReader*

        Uh, actually, because OP has not told him NO he is just going to keep doing this things and adding to his repertoire of annoying habits.

        OP, there are people out there who do not take hints. It could be that they can’t read hints. It could be that they choose to ignore them. I think he is choosing to ignore them.

        By remaining silent you have basically told him, “It’s okay to walk all over me.”
        Your choices here are, a) speak up or b) watch this get worse.
        Unfortunately, speaking up is a skill you will need for the rest of your work life. So start cultivating that voice now. It will only benefit you in the future.

        Remember the rule of three. You see a behavior three times and you have a pattern. When you have a pattern that is when you speak up.

        “Bob, I have noticed you stand to close to me. I have asked several times for you to stop. Now I am telling you to stop.”

        “Bob, do not move the things on my window sill.”

        I have to ask. Does Bob ever find time to do any work? You might be able to say, “Don’t you have work, Bob?”

    5. Dawn*

      A) none of this is petty
      B) you being introverted has nothing to do with this behavior ranging from annoying all the way to gross/sexist

      Let’s break it down by behavior:
      1) Standing too close: He knows damn well what he’s doing here, and HE is the one making it awkward by doing this behavior. When he stands too close, back up while saying “Fergus, you are too close to me.” He’s going to do one of two things- either he’ll say “oh, sorry!” in which case you can let it drop, OR he’s gonna gaslight you- “No I wasn’t!”, “you’re too sensitive!”, or try to make it funny by intentionally getting close to you as much as possible. If he goes route B, then he’s obviously an asshole and you can treat him as such/ escalate to your boss and HR.
      2) Belching, snorting: call him out because we all learned in kindergarten that it’s gross to do stuff like that in public. “Fergus, that is disgusting, stop it.” Again, he’s either going to stop or he’s going to escalate because he thinks it’s funny. If he escalates, then he’s an ass, and you can treat him as such. 2b) Humming, talking: that might just be eccentric behavior, you can certainly call him out on it but it might not be a hill to die on. 2c) Talking to you with your headphones in: if you notice that he’s talking to you, stop what you’re doing, then while looking at him with your most deadpan face take off your headphones slowly and say “I’m sorry Fergus, I had my headphones in, and when I have my headphones in I cannot hear you talking. Please start again from the beginning.” do this every single time he tries to talk to you with your headphones in. Maybe he’ll get the point.
      3) This is just weird awkward behavior. Can you hang a poster in the window? Otherwise just ignore him as best you can when he does this. 3a) Blurting out stuff when you’re working: unless it’s an attempt to make conversation or whatever (or honestly, even if it is and you just don’t wanna talk) don’t give him the attention he’s craving. Reply with “mm” or “huh” or “eh” or whatever while staring pointedly at your work. Rinse and repeat. 3b) Rolling into your cube and staring at you: this is obnoxious behavior, I don’t know the dude so I can’t say if it’s on purpose or if he’s just awkward. But anyway, when he does this, say “Fergus, can I help you?” and if he says “yeah I have a question” reply “OK Fergus, why didn’t you say that in the first place?” He’s either going to take the hint OR he’s gonna get creepy (“I just like to stare at you while you work” or whatever) and if he gets creepy, he’s an ass and you can treat him as such.
      4) moving your things: now THIS is straight up kinda-probably sexist and absolutely disrespectful of your space and your time. This is not OK and it’s not petty of you to be bothered by it. If he touches your stuff, call him out on it in the moment- “Fergus, stop touching my things”, “Fergus, there’s a chair right there, get off the windowsill and stop touching my things”, “Fergus, there is a storage locker [at location], do not touch my things.” No “please”, no trying to make it nice, just a broken record of “Fergus, stop touching my stuff”. Again, he’ll either stop or he won’t, and if he doesn’t you can absolutely escalate.
      5) Interjecting in conversation: Hello mansplaining my old friend. Treat it like anyone else trying to interrupt you: “Fergus, I wasn’t done talking yet.”, “Fergus, I’m responsible for teaching Sally how to do this, please don’t interrupt me”, “Fergus, that information is incorrect, you haven’t learned how to do [thing] yet. If you have questions about [thing] please come talk to me later.”

      If you need help with more scripts go check out Captian Awkward, there’s a ton of good stuff in the archives about how to stand up for yourself when you’re introverted and anxious.

      1. E*

        An accidental elbow in the ribs as you back up “accidentally” not seeing him that close might help, but otherwise I like the others’ suggestions to directly tell him to back up. No “please”, just tell him to stay out of your personal space.

      2. FiveWheels*

        I love Dawn’s advice. Especially important not to ever say please, thank you, excuse me etc. Don’t ask him if he minds giving you space – tell him to back up. I wouldn’t even say there’s a supply closet or point out he has a chair of his own.

        In other words, don’t attempt to find him solutions or play as a team. He sure isn’t playing on your team, anyway.

    6. A. D. Kay*

      Excellent advice from the other commenters. If he continues with his inappropriate behavior after you have pushed back, it’s time to loop your manager in.

    7. stephanie*

      Wow. This guy has some serious “not getting the normal office behavior” issues. I had an issue with this one time. I was working as a phone CSR. Since I had been doing this position for three years, newer CSRs would often come to me for advice and help with tough calls. This one person, *Katie*, came to my cubicle while I was on a call. She wanted help with something, so she stood behind me and waited (I assume for me to get off the phone so I could help her). The person on the call went on and on (as they tend to do), and I couldn’t stop or put them on hold. Katie tried to get my attention. I pointed to my headset, which is universal sign language for, “I’m on the phone”. She then sat down on my cubicle desk, to my right side–close she was almost touching the arm of my chair– and proceeded to stare at me. This went on for two or three minutes, and the incessant, creepy staring made me so nervous that I started stuttering on the call. Katie was not getting the hint! Finally, I couldn’t take it anymore, so I turned my chair so my back was to her. Finally, this upset her enough that she walked away. She NEVER talked to me again, she was so mad. But she also never came back to my cube and stared at me like a stalker.

      2. a.n.o.n.y.m.o.u.s.*

        Aww, she just sounds socially awkward. I kind of feel for her. The guy Camry is describing sounds like a jerk.

        1. neverjaunty*

          No, she sounds like an ass. Socially awkward people do not sit down on somebody’s desk and stare at them for long periods of time.

        2. Not So NewReader*

          I kind of feel Katie on this one. Of course, I don’t know the setting and I am looking at it through my lens. I have seen people turn their backs on me and others.

          I had a boss that would not train and he was never available. I would get a customer spending big bucks with our store. The customer needed to know something. I would wait for the boss and wait. Some times the customer would just go some where else. We are talking about items with a five digit price tag. Yeah, he would turn his back to me. And sometimes the customer saw him do it.

          I did learn though. If the boss could let a $50K plus sale walk out the door and not worry about it, why should I carry his worry for him? Yep. I left him alone. I think his refusal to train gave him job security, or at least in his mind it did.

          To those reading, please do not turn your backs on people. Find other solutions.

    8. MC*

      Stick out your arm – that’s your personal boundary*. If he gets within this bubble say “You are too close. Step back please.” Repeat as needed.

      * Caveat for very tall people with very long arms. If you’re over 6″ tall you may need to adjust your bubble a bit.

      And while I wouldn’t recommend it for the first contact – if you’ve asked him three times to not move your stuff or take your supplies, you should feel free to loudly state (not yell): NO! After being told three times that you don’t like a certain behavior – I consider continuing the behavior to be aggressive. Aggressive behavior needs an appropriately aggressive response. Introvert doesn’t mean doormat.

      If you are a doormat – that’s something different you need to fix.

    9. NaoNao*

      He sounds super-dreadful.
      I think there’s a couple paths you can take here:
      Are there common areas or conference rooms you can use for a couple hours a day? If so, make that your “must get work done” time.
      It seems like he’s not getting hints like “we have a supply cabinet” or “do you need something”. Time to step it up to polite, but very direct statements. “Bob, please don’t take my stapler. Thanks.” “Bob, I don’t like being stared at while I’m working. I’m sure you can understand that.” “Bob, please back up. You’re too close. Thanks!” “Bob, I can hear you talking, please stop.”
      It will be freezingly awkward for a day or two. He’s likely used to doing whatever he wants because people who break the social contract of “niceness” are counting on others to keep it so they can keep taking staplers, belching, standing too close, and whatever other nonsense they want, because no one is going to call them on it because it’s not “nice” to do so. Well, he broke it first. Now you get to break it back!
      You don’t want to or need to be this person’s friend. Get rid of that idea. You need him to *cut it out* so you can work and not lose your mind. The thing is, even if he doesn’t like you, as long as he cuts it out, you’re good.
      If he doesn’t cut it out, it’s time to go to HR.
      “I’ve asked Bob repeatedly, on 2/3 and 4/5 and in an email, to stop standing so close to me. He’s not complying and I’m wondering what my next steps are.”
      Can you work from home a couple days a week or permanently?
      Can you switch offices with someone who is not bothered by some of this?

    10. Marisol*

      I skim-read the responses here and am inclined to agree with everyone. The only tweak I would make is to add more warmth and friendliness to the request. For example, if he is in your personal space, give a big smile and in friendly tone of voice, say, “would you back up about 5 inches? You’re in my personal space!” because being warm will both get you the result you want, and keep the relationship cordial. There may be a need to escalate in the future, by taking a firmer tone or speaking to HR, but for now, assume the best and ask directly for what you want. Don’t waste time speculating on whether he is being a sexist jerk, or whether or not he “should know” not to do something. Keep your focus on your needs and wants and make your requests specific and direct, and in a friendly tone. With the staring, same thing—big friendly smile, so that you don’t seem like you are judging him, but then lay the truth on directly: “do you know you’re staring at me? It’s weirding me out. Would you stop that?” His response will dictate whether or not to escalate over time, but give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

      1. zora*

        I agree with this. You do need to be more clear and just state simply what you need him to do. But the first time do it nicely/with a friendly tone. If he doesn’t listen and keeps doing it, you then need to get shorter, more firm.

        You can do this!

      2. Liane*

        This can make things worse, especially with a woman trying to get a man to stop behaviors like these. It softens the “Don’t ever do that again” message so much that Problem Person sees it as a suggestion that they can ignore.

      3. catsAreCool*

        I wouldn’t smile or sound too friendly when I told him to step back or stop taking my stuff. You’ve tried to be polite by hinting at it, he didn’t take the hint, so either he’s clueless, or he’s being obnoxious on purpose, and in either case, being direct about it (without sounding extra nice) is probably called for. I don’t mean that you need to sound mean about it, but you shouldn’t water it down. You want him to realize that you are annoyed by this behavior, you aren’t going to let him keep doing this, and that you’re probably not far from explaining what is happening to your supervisor and asking the supervisor to deal with it.

        Most of what he is doing is not petty, and most people would be upset by it.

    11. FiveWheels*

      I’d be tempted to go a bit mad dog on him if he touched my stuff, used a pen, etc. “WHAT ARE YOU DOING NEVER TOUCH MY WORK STATION WITHOUT EXPRESS PERMISSION DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME!”

      But, I have an excellent Scary Voice i can turn on at will, and my advice is often bad.

    12. Natalie*

      Other commenters have given you a lot of good wording, so I’ll just suggest PRACTICE. Get a good friend to play Oliver Obnoxious and practice your scripts a few times. It really will help.

      1. zora*

        YES! This, too. Practice. If you can’t find a friend to do it, just practice in the mirror. It’s not quite as good, but it still really helps.

      2. Marisol*

        love role plays. they are so helpful, even though you can feel like a fool while practicing. but that foolish feeling is one of the best things about doing them because you learn how to be uncomfortable.

  38. Frustrated*

    I need some advice/wording for a note that I want to send to my old fellowship supervisor.
    For some background- I started off at this nonprofit as an intern. I was offered a short fellowship after my internship, and everything went rather well. The fellowship was quite demanding and required a lot of sacrifice on my part, but I enjoyed the work. My supervisor for the fellowship and the rest of the team I worked with had great things to say about my work, and said they would be happy to connect me to potential jobs in the organization. In addition, since I had been so crucial in the beginning stages of the project I was working on, it was discussed that I could take the lead on one of the big deliverables if I stayed in the loop. This would have been a great thing to have my name on, definitely a resume builder.
    Months later, and after I “stayed in the loop” by doing work for them for free whenever they were in a crunch, they gave the deliverable to someone else. I also applied for a job there, and my supervisor sent a recommendation to the hiring manager, but I just received a rejection form letter without even being contacted for a phone interview. I’m frustrated with the way this seems to be turning out, but I’m trying to keep my head up. I feel it’s probably polite to send a note to the supervisor to notify her that the position she recommended me for didn’t work out, but I’m having trouble coming up with wording when I feel so dejected. Does anyone want to suggest some language for me?

    1. A Plain-Dealing Villain*

      Are you using this person as a reference for other jobs? If yes, a simple “hey, that one position didn’t work out, but I wanted to give you a heads up that that other jobs may be contacting you for a reference” works. Also, you can add “please let me know if you come across anything else that you think may be a good fit for me”.

  39. Lacie*

    Headdesk moment of the day: My boss just came up to me and said: “We need to tell that guy* who ordered only green teapots** that he can’t have them because all of a sudden the green teapots leak when we wrap them.*** Also you have to stop offering the green teapots for wholesale.****”

    Why is this headdesk worthy?
    * The customer is a woman, with whom my boss has often spoken on the phone.
    ** The customer ordered an assortment of teapots, not just green.
    *** I told my boss about the leaking back when we started making green teapots months ago. She said it wouldn’t be an issue.
    **** Wholesaling the green teapots was my boss’s idea in the first place.

      2. Lacie*

        Luckily it’s not a huge deal, so I don’t have to worry about proving anything (I informed the customer and she just asked for a different product instead).

        My boss is the world’s biggest space cadet and it can be frustrating, but even when she does blame me for things that aren’t my fault, she’s super reasonable. I mostly just needed to vent that she got literally nothing in the entire conversation right. It’s a daily occurrence.

  40. NarrowDoorways*

    I can’t full express how happy I am!

    My company was purchased this past summer by a huge corporation and some trickle down changes are finally reaching us. The biggest one so far: new insurance! And it’s amazing insurance for waaaay cheaper than what we’d had.

    This is going to feel like a raise, basically.

    3. JustaTech*

      Yay! It’s so good to read a story where a company gets bought by Mega-Corp and it’s a good thing!

    6. congrats!*

      this might happen to me in the next few months (well, potential acquisition in the beginning of 2017, changes sometime after that)…I am so looking forward to better benefits!!

  41. Anon Accountant*

    Keep your fingers crossed for me! I’m a finalist at a job for a hospital health system. Great benefits, work hours, nice people. Plus an hour away so I’d be moving away from my dysfunctional family. I’m hoping it works out.

  42. Mimmy*

    How to respond when a family member gives outdated advice –

    Last weekend, I told my sister about a job I applied for at my university last month. I have not heard back one way or the other but assumed it’ll probably take a while since…well…university hiring takes time (this position is long-term temp, part-time). My sister asked me if I followed up with them, which from reading AAM, I know is frowned-upon. All I could muster was a a lame “I don’t want to bother them”. But now I’m wondering….

    So…who’s right, me or my sister?

    1. rosenstock*

      sounds like you’re right!
      i like alison’s advice that once you apply, you’ve adequately expressed your interest, and you should put it out of your mind.
      something i use with family is to say “i’ll think about it, thanks!” and then think about it (i.e. think about not doing it, and subsequently don’t do it). it’s not a lie, and it satiates their need to provide input.
      good luck with the job!

    2. KL*

      I’d say wait as well. The wheels of bureaucracy turn very slowly. If the university you applied to is anything like mine, it can take a while for everyone to review all of the applications and then pick out who they want to interview.

    3. Cass*

      I think you – I work at a university as well, and I didn’t follow up with any of my positions when they were in the application stage, at least not before an interview.

    4. Ask a Manager* Post author

      You are right — and particularly with a university, where the hiring process tends to be rigid and they won’t consider anything outside of their regular process anyway.

    5. Wild at Heart*

      You’re definitely in the right. I cannot tell you how many of my family members keep pressuring me to ‘follow up’ after submitting an application. I actually had to pull up a posting I’d already applied to on my phone to show my mom that it specifically said ‘do not call’.

      I know they’re just trying to help but it is so frustrating to tell them over and over again that the advice is so out-dated and they don’t want phone calls unless they first reach out for an interview. So just stand your ground with your sister!

    6. One Handed Typist*

      Wait! You are right. I’ve worked for a University in multiple positions and I’ve never had a job hire in less than 3 months from application closure date. In fact, my first job with the University had a closing date of 1 June. Phone interview in the beginning of September. In person interview three weeks later. Offer two weeks later. For my current position, closing was end of July, first interview end of September, second interview mid-October. Offer 3 weeks later.

      1. Mimmy*

        Yup, I talked to a woman the other day who used to work at this same university, and she said it was 3 months before she heard from them.

    8. Audiophile*

      I’ve interviewed a few times with universities and most times it took 3 to 4 months from the application closing before I heard anything. I never followed up prior to the interview, thing I did occasionally follow up after.

  43. BeckaJo (formerly JadeShrew)*

    I HAVE GOOD NEWS.

    Finally, finally, finally I have a new job! I’ve been searching for more than a year, getting nothing but a string of ignored applications and one courtesy interview. I’d given up for a while and decided to work on getting a certificate to hopefully beef up my qualifications. Then, I saw a position I’d applied for previously open up again, and heard through my network that they were looking to hire ASAP. I threw in my application – following all of Allison’s advice except ‘proofread’ – and….I got it! I think it helped that this was an off-cycle academic appointment, so the pool was smaller. I can definitely do this job and even have experience in it, but my path is different from the traditional one so getting them to take a chance was hard.

    I am thrilled, but also a little sad because almost all of the problems that were making me want to leave my current job became miraculously better in the past month, except for the fact that there isn’t any room for promotions. My supervisor was really understanding and happy for me, and it’s great to finally be moving on!

  44. AngryLibrarian*

    I was let go yesterday. I think I am being retaliated against for putting up a Banned Book display.

    So far HR has given me no documentation. I was put on a PIP and when my supervisor and I discussed it, she said everything was fine. A few weeks later, I guess that changed.

      2. not really a lurker anymore*

        There’s a list of books that many people would like to see banned from schools, public libraries, etc. Some libraries and book stores will put up a display of them to encourage people to read them. Some are classics, some aren’t.

        I’m not current on what’s on the list now but in the past it’s included “Heather has 2 Mommies” and I think “Huck Finn”

        1. not really a lurker anymore*

          I didn’t find a 2016 list at the American Libary Association websste but this is the top ten list of challenged books from 2015.

          Looking for Alaska, by John Green
          Reasons: offensive language, sexually explicit, and unsuited for age group
          Fifty Shades of Grey, by E. L. James
          Reasons: sexually explicit, unsuited to age group, and other (“poorly written,” “concerns that a group of teenagers will want to try it”)
          I Am Jazz, by Jessica Herthel and Jazz Jennings
          Reasons: inaccurate, homosexuality, sex education, religious viewpoint, and unsuited for age group
          Beyond Magenta: Transgender Teens Speak Out, by Susan Kuklin
          Reasons: anti-family, offensive language, homosexuality, sex education, political viewpoint, religious viewpoint, unsuited for age group, and other (“wants to remove from collection to ward off complaints”)
          The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time, by Mark Haddon
          Reasons: offensive language, religious viewpoint, unsuited for age group, and other (“profanity and atheism”)
          The Holy Bible
          Reasons: religious viewpoint
          Fun Home, by Alison Bechdel
          Reasons: violence and other (“graphic images”)
          Habibi, by Craig Thompson
          Reasons: nudity, sexually explicit, and unsuited for age group
          Nasreen’s Secret School: A True Story from Afghanistan, by Jeanette Winter
          Reasons: religious viewpoint, unsuited to age group, and violence
          Two Boys Kissing, by David Levithan
          Reasons: homosexuality and other (“condones public displays of affection”)

        2. Not So NewReader*

          You are right. Many books now considered part of Am Lit were on the banned book list at some point.

          Here is an interactive map that shows some of the instances of banning or requests to ban particular books.

          http://www.bannedbooksweek.org/mappingcensorship

          The week is intended to raise awareness of how often a situation comes up. If you zoom out you can see various bans around the world.

    3. Lolly Scrambler*

      This sounds like the kind of thing that happens in libraries all too often. I’m so sorry. I would check out the Library Employee Support Network on Facebook if you need any more space to vent (and aren’t already in the group of course).

        1. Drew*

          I’d be willing to bet there were complaints from patrons that gave the OP’s bosses an excuse.

          If this is a public library, the staff often has to please the local government, which could be part of the problem.

    6. Jean*

      Lapsed Librarian here (earned the MS but left the field). That stinks! Can you contact your local ACLU (for anyone who doesn’t know, this is the American Civil Liberties Union)?
      Sending you good vibes ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ and grouchy vibes to your HR department **********.

  45. BRR*

    I’m having an issue with a group of loud coworkers and I’m wondering if the advice is different for how to handle it when it’s a larger group versus an individual. So I work in a completely open office (never a good start to a question) and there is a group of five people who sit next to me who are very loud. They have loud, long conversations with each other about non-work topics, discuss things out loud versus using IM or email (which is really standard in our office since it’s open), and even speak much louder than others while on the phone. I’m obviously at BEC with all of them.

    If it was just one person I would talk to them directly but I feel more awkward about asking a group of people if they could keep it down so I can focus. Other things that might be relevant. Four of them spend 40% out of the office for their jobs. Those four make up a department and their director refers to the department as “the loud team” in an endearing manner and is out of the office 90% off the time. I can’t move desks. I know I’m not the only one who is annoyed but I think I am the most annoyed as I sit the closest and have ADD. I don’t know about everybody around them though. Thank you all for your help!

    1. not so super-visor*

      Oh open office layouts. Why are companies still inflicting this on their employees???
      I feel for you. We’re also in an open office layout. It is the worst especially for noise. We have another department that passes through our department on their way to a weekly meeting. They tended to have loud, jovial conversations on the way to the meeting. I had to bring it up to the other department’s manager that our department is always on the phone, and he addressed it with his whole group. It’s been much better.

    2. HeyNonnyNonny*

      Advice I’ve heard from here (but haven’t tried because it’s never gotten bad enough…yet) is to give yourself a reason you need quiet– “Hi, I’ve got a conference call/super important project/migraine and I really need to hear/to focus, could you keep it down/have this conversation over in the break room?”

      I’m up for a cubicle move soon and am prepping to be in your exact situation! whee….

      1. BRR*

        I would try that but my apprehension is addressing a larger group. I wasn’t sure if that would be as effective.

    3. Evergreen*

      Often there’s a ringleader in these groups, or possibly someone who is more considerate or empathetic than others – could you start by approaching one person and have a heart to heart and confess how uncomfortable they’re making you?

    5. TootsNYC*

      I might suggest you pick one person from that team to take this to as a request. And ask them as if you are requesting help.
      Ask if they can advocate for you with the rest of their team, and whether you can develop some sort of signal that you can use to let that person know it’s getting too much for you, and for them to request a little quiet for your sake.

      (I see others have suggested this; maybe not the ringleader, but someone you think would be amenable, but also have a strong enough personality.)

      The other option is to go to your boss and make this request.

      If you do want to speak up to the whole group int he moment, make it a request, and be friendly about it. Avoid -any- possible scolding tone.

  46. thehighercommonsense*

    So, I’ve gotten to the second interview for a government job (auditing). It’s a bit of a direction change for me (I’ve worked in related fields but not done auditing before). I’m strongly looking to leave my current (also government) job, in part because of pervasive ethical and management issues.

    So, I’m trying to weigh the pros and cons. Good: new job has pretty sweet educational benefits comparable (but slightly lower) salary. Cons: There would be a significant amount of travel–you basically go from audit site to audit site, frequently change teams, and the chance of a commute close to home is pretty small.

    I’ve never had a commute that was less than 45 minutes one way and while it’s manageable, I don’t love it and was really hoping to get something closer to home. I’m also afraid of yet more dysfunction, though so far the department seems to check out. Ideally, I’d be interested in transferring to the private sector and doing audit work there eventually, but I don’t have any accounting coursework (hence the interest in the sweet educational benefits). I am really, really, really interested in getting out of my current job, and I worry it’s clouding my judgement.

    Does anyone have any experience with government auditing or related careers who can weigh in? Or any advice for weighing the pros and cons?

    1. Anon for this*

      I am not an auditor, but have worked extensively with auditors and have held positions requiring a lot of travel. I think you need some targeted questions for that second interview on the travel, education options, amount of turnover (if high, can they explain that), and management style. Are there any financial aspects of the audits that you will be doing?

      One thing where I used to work is that there was not really any overlap between the teams that did purely financial audits and teams that did other types of audits (medical, in my case). However, there were always financial aspects to the medical audits (e.g., checking invoices and amount paid against payment caps to find overpayments).

      1. thehighercommonsense*

        Turnover is about 10-15% each year; all levels, but they said they lose people who 1) don’t like the travel 2) realize auditing is not for them 3) to the private sector. My current division has had about 85% turnover so honestly that sounds pretty good, but I don’t know if 10-15% is typical.

        Management style emphasizes open communication, and they did talk about structure, onboard support, and training, which was helpful. They asked a lot of behavioral questions (not typical in my govt experience) and really emphasized the travel, the difficulty of bonding with colleagues (you might work with a team on one audit and then literally not see them for a couple years), and the necessity to adapt to changing conditions (different audit sites, different teams, different focuses).

        Financial and performance audits are separated, but the performance audits do have financial aspects. I was really, really clear in the interview that my background Does Not include accounting experience or coursework.

    2. Sibley*

      I am an auditor! Typically, it’s very project based, which is good because it gives variety, but the audit process itself is the same from audit to audit. You’ll also probably have to track your time. If so, do it well and religiously – it will make your life easier and mgmt will not be pissed with you.

      Travel. It’s what gets a lot of auditors to leave the field. How often will you travel? How often in the office? How do you get to the different sites? Driving? if so, do you rent a car? use a pool car? Evening/weekend work. Overall hours. It’s not really a “commute” – that’s the time to the home office. Everywhere else is “travel time”.

      Financial, operational, and compliance audits are all different. The work is very detailed, if you can’t do that or don’t like it, not a good fit. Lots of documenting what you look at.

      You will be interacting with a LOT of people. You need to be professional and pleasant, regardless of of how stupid the person is. And you will find stupid, believe me. Along with everything else.

      If you know anyone who’s been an auditor, ask them to spill the beans. Tell them you mean it – a lot of us tend to keep quiet because we know no one actually care.

      1. Sophie Winston*

        Another thing on the travel – will it interfere with your ability to use those educational benefits?

      2. thehighercommonsense*

        There are financial, performance, and information systems audits. The travel is A LOT–the home office isn’t big enough to even hold all the auditors, so they really do go from audit to audit. How long you stay on the audit seems to depend on your expertise–beginners might get an audit section and then do that section somewhere else until they’re ready to branch out, more senior auditors might stay on the audit from beginning to end. Basically, they said expect to change every month or so.

        Most of the sites are within an hour drive; they do allow overnight travel reimbursement, mileage reimbursement, some pool car use. Flexible scheduling, up to one telecommute day, and the option to work 4-10s or work it so you have one day off every pay period. Evening/weekend work, not really. They were pretty clear that “we pretty much work the 40 hours, and that’s it.”

        I will see if I can get another auditor to spill the beans! I do like painfully detailed stuff, and I’m starting to get tired of government program work, so I’m thinking audit might be a good move (I read NTSB reports for fun, for context.)

        In my current job I’ve had to interact pleasantly with people who are not terribly smart and also not terribly pleasant, so I think I can deal; it really is the travel I’m hesitant about. They do say you can ask for exemption from overnight travel for courses or for stuff like unavoidable family events, so I don’t think it would interfere with the educational benefits.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      My friend got a government audit. Lucky for me, I got to listen to the process in blow by blow detail.

      Sadly, it seemed to be a picky process where every molehill became a mountain. My friend already was behind on her work and she had no additional hours to spend with the auditor. The auditor asked questions that predated my friend’s employment by decades and took hours for my friend to find some semblance of an answer. My friend fell behind on her work, as in months behind.
      The auditor did not understand the uniqueness of the setting and my friend had to spend hours explaining the most simplest aspects of the setting.

      In the end the auditor came back with recommendations and was told that there was no budget to implement the recommendations. So it was almost two months worth of work by the auditor that boiled down to “we are not doing anything different here because we have no money to implement the changes”

      The news media ran a story on it and because the reporter did not grasp the situation the story in the news media sounded like planet earth would stop revolving tomorrow.

      I thought this was a one-off. And then I found another instance where an audit was almost the same thing.

      If you chose to go this route, talk to others and do some homework. There were other problems but I cannot say here. Knowing what I have seen here, no, I would not take this job.

      1. thehighercommonsense*

        Yup, I’ve been through audits myself and it is tough. I know that they can be used as watchdogs, and not in a good way. And it does require getting to know lots of different agencies, which absolutely does increase the risk of misinterpretation, especially when the relationship is basically adversarial (to some extent, anyway).

        I am thinking hard about it, but I do think the work is interesting.

  47. AndersonDarling*

    Has anyone gone from a regular schedule to a variable schedule? How did your family cope?
    My husband is starting a job where he will be working weekends and shifts between 7am and 7pm. Luckily he won’t ever be working very late, but I’m trying to figure out how to adjust. His “weekends” will be in the middle of the week, so we won’t have day’s off together.
    I’m getting a dry erase calendar so we can keep track of our schedules. (I sometimes have days that I work late, but they are scheduled.) Is there anything else I could do to ease the transition?

    1. Emmie*

      My cousin and her husband worked variable schedules. He was 8-5. She was 3-11 with weekends. It was difficult at first, but they say it was eventually the best thing that could’ve happened to them. He became a much more involved parent – taking the daughter to ballet lessons, and leading Boy Scouts. Stuff he never would’ve done. They did this for 20+ years. They also did fun things together as a couple throughout the years – dance lessons, parties, BBQs – so they could maintain a strong marriage. Good luck!

    2. Persephone Mulberry*

      My husband worked a variable schedule (retail) for years, and yes, the whiteboard calendar with his schedule on it was my sanity saver.

      Talk about whether on days when he works late, will you push dinner back so that you can eat together or will you each fend for yourselves?

      What other “little rituals” are currently built around your schedules that might change? Identifying and planning for these things helps not build resentment when you realize weeks or months from now that you’re no longer bonding over coffee in the morning because now he can sleep in on his late-start days (ahem).

      There might need to be some shuffling of responsibilities if it means you will be taking over more of the evening tasks (meal prep, walking the dog right after work) – maybe that means he picks up more of the laundry or something that he can do on his later-start or midweek off days.

      1. Yet another Allison*

        This can be a benefit of those schedules too! My partner will take the car in for oil changes, go to his doctor appointments, grocery shop, etc., on weekdays when he’s not scheduled to work, which is a major convenience. I try to do more of the in-house chores to keep the household work balanced.

    3. Yet another Allison*

      My partner is an RN who works three 12-hour shifts per week, and those shifts fall on the weekend about half the time. He does nights most of the time, with a month here and there on days. I work a regular M-F job, 7:30-4. It’s at a school so I have additional flexibility on school breaks, although I work year-round.

      Anyway, our different schedules are good and bad. If we want to go to evening events or weekend events, he often needs to know about them pretty far in advance in order to finagle his work schedule. He has some degree of choice over what days his shifts are on. Will your husband be able to choose which days or which weekends he works? Because if so, one huge upside is that my partner can have up to like 7 consecutive days off work without actually using any PTO, since he can choose to work three shifts at the start of one week, and then three shifts at the end of the next week.

      Another upside is that we each get a decent amount of alone time. I’m a touch introverted, and I really don’t mind the 3-4 evenings a week where I can enjoy my garbage TV and eat popcorn for dinner, or whatever I want. And he gets time to play video games and listen to his weird music while I’m at work or sleeping. We still get three or four evenings per week together and a few weekend days to do stuff too.

  48. Windchime*

    I love my new job. The people are nice, the boss is reasonable and kind, and the work is interesting. I feel so lucky. And today I am working from home, so yay for me! (She is also going to let us all work from home the day before Thanksgiving as well–I’m so grateful!)

  49. Sombra*

    What could my partner do better? This has been bugging me for a while since we just passed the 4 year mark together. He has been out of school for 2 years with a degree in geographic information systems. He did not do any internships during undergrad. He has not had any industry related jobs since he graduated. The past year he has worked in a restaurant. He applies to jobs but has only had 2 interviews in the 2 years. After rejection both times he became very discouraged and didn’t apply for things for a while (which I advised against but I can’t control him obviously). Temp agencies won’t take him on because he doesn’t have any office work experience at all. His restaurant job is not that good salary wise either and it’s hard work.

    I’m just at a loss and I don’t know how to help him more than I’ve already done (resumes, cover letters, general search advice). Where is he supposed to go from here?

    1. Leatherwings*

      Can he volunteer someplace to get a bit more experience and work on building a network? That’s my suggestion.

      Also, 2 interviews in two years is realllly low (assuming he’s applying to things on a fairly regular basis) and suggests to me that he still needs more work on his application materials. I’m not sure you can help that much with that, though. When my SO was job searching, it was really tempting for me to micromanage it, but the truth was that he needed to manage it on his own (even though he wasn’t as vigorous at applying to things as I wanted him to be). The real answer might just be that you need to be an emotional support and that’s it.

      1. Sombra*

        I pitched volunteering to him before as well, but I know you’re right re: not micromanaging. It’s tough for me because in the past 2 years I jumped ahead by a lot professionally and I’m really trying to not resent that? Maybe I should look into counseling.

    2. Manders*

      Is the type of job he wants at all geographically dependent? Is he sure he’s not hobbling his job search by living or applying to jobs in the wrong area? This is a hard conversation to have with a partner (believe me, I’ve been there!) but if the jobs aren’t coming to him, he may have to move to where the jobs are.

      1. Sombra*

        We live in the northern Virginia area which I thought would be one of the best places to get a job related to gis due to all the Fed contractors but it hadn’t panned out, I guess due to his lack of experience. At this point he should probably start looking nationally anyway. Just sucks because we recently moved into a new apartment

        1. Leatherwings*

          If you’re close to the DC area, he should think about trying internships. Sorry to keep bringing up my experience, it just sounds pretty similar to yours. My SO did restaurant work + unpaid internships to gain experience and he did get a FT job after a year of unpaid/partially paid internships. It was really hard to have two jobs, but it did pay off in the end.

    3. Kimberlee Esq.*

      My partner has had jobsearching stuggles in the past, and it was discouraging during times when he wasn’t making any money but also didn’t seem to be applying to anything or doing anything in particular to make himself more employable. What eventually seemed to work for us was my being honest about the impact it had on me; when he was unemployed or underemployed, that put the pressure on me to be the main source of income, which meant that if I ended up in a terrible situation and needed to quit my job, I couldn’t. It also means that if I wanted to strike out on my own and start a business, that would be dramatically harder. My partner is not a hugely ambitious guy, so making it clear to him that I felt limited in my professional life, as a much more ambitious person than him, motivated him to at least start applying to more places.

      1. Manders*

        This is good advice! I’m very glad I eventually put all my cards on the table and told my partner how I was feeling and what I wasn’t willing to do if he made certain career choices. Partner compromised by getting a job that wasn’t his first choice, and found out that he loves the work. And right when his career finally stabilized, I ended up having a big personal tragedy–if he was still waffling and refusing to commit to a career path, things would have gotten very rocky very fast for the relationship. I wish I’d done it sooner, to be honest.

        1. Sombra*

          Thank you both for your replies. I just don’t know how to phrase it well because my internal thoughts feel so petty/ugly. This is veering into more personal issues, so again I appreciate everyone who has responded.

          1. Christy*

            I am massively overstepping in saying this, but it seems to me from your posts that this is a bigger relationship issue and you’re focusing in on this job element. Are you happy in the relationship? Do you foresee a lot of future job struggles, and is that something you are comfortable dealing with? Is it ok with you that he is not advancing as you are?

            This is all coming from a vibe from your posts. I could be totally off base.

    4. AliceW*

      Temp agencies will usually take anyone on with a college degree. I and many of my friends got temp jobs right out of college and I had no internships during school. If you know excel, access, or word you should be hire able. Many of my temp jobs did not require any office experience and were not in an office setting. I also worked with temps that did not have college degrees. Many people just need a warm body. And the temp pay was way better than retail or minimum wage.

    5. CMT*

      Can he look for internships? I also worked in food service after graduating from college because it was the only thing I could find. I applied to “real jobs” the entire time I was working as a barista. I just never got them. I ultimately went to grad school because I didn’t see an end in sight to being a barista. (And in those two years post-college I decided what kind of higher education I wanted to pursue.) I had somebody tell me later on that from an employer perspective, the barista jobs actually hurt my chances of getting a job in my field.

    6. BRR*

      For the morale, it helps me to think of it in terms of there are probably at least 100 other people who were rejected or to think of it as when I apply there are probably at least 100 applicants so statistically my odds are at less than 1%.

      For helping, my spouse had a two-year job hunt. He was very discouraged and as he got more discouraged I tried to help more which actually just led to tension. I then said I want to help to make it easier so what can I do and what do you want me to stop.

    7. a.n.o.n.y.m.o.u.s.*

      Has he tried looking for a job as an entry level technician? A lot of utilities hire people just out of college for that type of work. It’s not a fun or glamorous job, and it doesn’t pay well, but it helps you get your foot in the door.

    8. Not So NewReader*

      Personally I am motivated by medium to long term goals.

      If I was focused on just getting a job because that is what one is supposed to do, I am DEmotivated.
      But if I focused on getting a job so me and hubby could buy a house, I had motivation that is about 300 horse power.

      I suggest that you have a heart to heart. Discouraged people forget to dream. Remind your SO of your dreams together. Get a house. Get a dog. Get that new pricey car. Treat the job as a mere stepping stone on the way to that Goal. You may need to play the role of the person who believes the two of you CAN do this.

      When the job becomes the destination/focus/goal that can make work or job search a torturous effort. But when finding a good job is a small part of a larger plan, a new perspective settles in.

    9. Troutwaxer*

      Does he program or can he write documentation? He can find an Open Source project which involves GIS easily. They’re always looking for people and he can probably work from home. Search for “Open Source Mapping Software” and you’ll find dozens of projects.

  50. Nonprofit 1%ers*

    Anon for this. I work for a nonprofit which I’ve been disillusioned with for a while. Today I found out the executives make in the $150K-$200K range. I like legit feel nauseous. This isn’t some huge national organization but a small local social service organization where the actual service providers are overworked and undervalued/paid.

    Ugh. I don’t have a question, just needed to get that out.

    1. Wendy Darling*

      My company is reducing what we pay our non-professional workforce significantly via hiring people at a much lower rate (like 25% less) and then reducing the hours of the people working at the higher rate until they give up and quit.

      Meanwhile the head of my division almost *cried* because she was so touched by how my company gives jobs to people who otherwise could not get them and how we’re doing them this amazing service and improving their lives. I KNOW I made a face.

    2. Anna*

      I’m sorry. That sucks and I completely understand why you would feel sick about that. It must feel like the executives are giving the finger to your mission.

    3. OOF*

      I totally get why this viscerally feels wrong. But, I would offer a counter-point, which can vary around the edges based upon the size/budget of your organization, and depending upon the cost of living in your location.

      And that is – talented executives/leaders are expensive to hire. However, making smart investments to recruit quality hires is, if correctly done, more cost effective in the long run. Why? Because truly good leaders should be able to run organizations efficiently, saving money. They should be good managers, meaning less turnover, saving money. They should be better fundraisers, meaning bringing in more money. They should be more stable in their roles, leading to more stability for the organization, which affects all the things noted above positively. And hopefully, they’ll make fewer dumb mistakes. All these things combined can earn back the increased salary many times over, provide a better work environment for employees and better service to the mission.

      It doesn’t always work this way, but without offering enough salary for the good people to be interested, it will never work this way.

      3. MsCHX*

        I think that a CEO of a non profit can easily be paid $150k without me batting an eye. Paying that salary while also seeing the organization failing wouldn’t sit well. A lot of the really large ones are making over a million dollars a year and I think that’s crazy.

    4. Maya Elena*

      Also, who carries all the liability for legal issues, lawsuits, public exposure?

      I obviously know nothing about the organozation, but with reward comes risk. How much responsibility and visibility, fot how many people, do executives carry? Who has yo be available in crisis situations, who is answerable to donors, etc. Etc.

      By extension, it makes complete sense why someone managing a gigantic and well-known charity, running transnational operations and managing billions, gets paid a million and the CEO of the local food bank might only get a $100K or so.

      1. neverjaunty*

        If the answer to your first question is not “the organization”, then it is doing literally everything wrong.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      I hear ya!

      Am thinking of a top heavy organization, where the bottom paid individuals qualify for food stamps. The org is so short staffed that an employee ends up in the ER on a regular basis.
      These lowest paid people also bring in their own supplies to do the job AND donate money to the company.

      These 100k execs spend the day at the mall shopping or drinking at the bar.
      I get it. I really do.

      It’s time to move on, you know that, right? You see what it is, dwelling on it does you no good. Take all the extra energy and use it to advocate for yourself and move on to a better place.

    6. Burn Out*

      Been there, done that. Compassion fatigue. Can’t afford self care. Get out. Don’t know what else to say.

  51. Annie Moose*

    This is my first year at a company that actually does something significant for Christmas (complete with me now freaking out about what on earth to wear to the Christmas party–I’ll post about that one separately ;)), so this is my first time dealing with gifting issues: NewJob collects $20 from each employee (that is financially able to give it) and donates to a charity in the name of the company owners “to show our appreciation to [company owners] for everything they’ve done for all of us.”

    On one hand: it’s going to charity, which is great, and I’m sufficiently financially secure to contribute. (especially because NewJob is paying me more than OldJob!)

    On the other hand: I have no clue which charities it’s going to, I already donate to charities on my own time, and the air of “you have to donate unless you’re literally unable to” turns me off.

    Am I overthinking it? I’m a new employee, so I’m just going to donate and not rock the boat about it, but it just came across weirdly. Yeah, the money isn’t really going to my bosses, so it’s not really the dreaded “gifting up”… but I’d rather donate as much as I would like, to a charity I would like, in whoever’s name I would like, rather than do it for my boss.

    Furthermore, do you think it’d be appropriate for me to ask what charities it would be for ahead of time, given that I’m going to donate either way so it doesn’t really matter?

    1. The Cosmic Avenger*

      That IS gifting up! First of all, they’re trying to decide what you do with your money; second, if you’re giving the money to the company to give to a charity, I’d bet my next paycheck that the owners are taking a tax deduction for it!

      I’d probably try to refuse, but you could also make your donation yourself, and get an “in honor of” kind of acknowledgement from the charity for the owners. Actually, I bet that that would probably get them more mad at you than outright refusing, because it would ruin their scheme.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        I really like this idea of doing it on your own.
        I might be tempted to try it. I think I would give the $20 to a charity of my choice, get the in honor of card like Cosmic Avenger says. Then pass the in honor card to the person collecting the money.

        You are new. So you can play the newbie card at least once. With all sincerity you can say, “Oh I really thought this would be okay.” Act a little sad that they do not like your gift.

    2. Brownie Queen*

      If you are turned off by the “Donate unless you are literally unable to” then don’t donate. I personally find that a huge turn off and feel donating to charities is one’s own personal business and has not place in the workplace.

      If you feel you need to donate because you are new and afraid of rocking the boat, it is totally appropriate to ask what charities your hard earned money will be donated to.

    3. Loose Seal*

      Remember, if the donation is in the owners’ names, then they are getting the tax deduction too. Which is probably the reason behind this whole thing. I’d not donate and say I’ve already made my charitable donations this year.

    4. Marisol*

      trust your gut on this. Personally, I’d probably cough up the twenty bucks, but I agree that the request seems inappropriate.

    5. zora*

      um, yeah that is kind of weird. And it is gifting up. And not knowing the charity makes it reeaallllyyy weird.

      My current company gives a donation to charity for the holidays, and they mention it in holiday cards, etc, but the *company* pays for it, they don’t ask the employees to contribute the $$. I think you should ask what charities it would be for, because maybe no one has ever told them that this is weird, and that at the very least it is reasonable for people to know exactly where their hard earned money is going.

  52. Annie Moose*

    Here’s the NewJob Christmas party attire question: invitation says “fairly dressy, similar to what you might see at a wedding reception”, but seeing as I’ve been to a wedding where everyone wore Hawaiian shirts and will be going to a wedding next month that’s black tie optional, that’s not too specific. And the only “Christmas party” I’ve been to at work before was a potluck during working hours.

    I just got this cute dress at Banana Republic. Think it would work? I’d put black tights or leggings on underneath to keep my legs from freezing off.

    1. Marisol*

      it would probably work. what time of day? and what is the “name” of the event? Are they calling it a “Christmas party,” “cocktail reception,” what? What is the venue?

      If nothing else, you can ask coworkers for suggestions.

      1. Annie Moose*

        The “name” is just “holiday party”, but it’ll be cocktails/appetizers + dinner + unspecified time for music/other stuff afterward. (I’m not a partier and I don’t drink, so I’ll probably leave shortly after dinner–stay long enough to talk to people, per Alison’s advice, but then go.) It’s at a conference center that I think is pretty nice, but I’ve never been there.

        Yeah, I’ll probably ask, but unfortunately most of the people I work with are guys!

        1. Marisol*

          I don’t think you’d be making a faux pas with that dress. My only criticism is that it looks a bit day-timish, rather than eveningish, but with some heels and sparkly earrings you could make it fancier. Black patent heels if you have them. And maybe a little shoulder wrap, like sheer silky scarf thing, would also dress it up. At my holiday party, they call it a cocktail party, specify cocktail attire, and have a lavish spread at a fancy hotel, but then a lot of the women seem to dress a step more casual than what I would consider cocktail attire. Like, I wear a simple above the knee dress with a bit of sparkle, but lots of the women show up in daytime, cotton dresses. So I think, I’m one of the few women who technically “gets it right,” but if everyone else doesn’t, then maybe I’m actually getting it wrong. My point is that if your office is anything like mine, you probably have some latitude as to how fancy you have to be because there will always be some people who are dressed more casually/less fashionably. In any case, it is a cute dress.

      2. Chaordic One*

        I agree that it is a cute dress, and certainly appropriate for a cocktail party. Maybe add a nice necklace and heels and you’re good to go.

    4. zora*

      I think that dress is totally fine for a ‘dressy’ work party!
      You could dress it up with a little bling if you want, fancy scarf or sparkly necklace. But it’s not necessary, as far as women’s clothes go, that is plenty dressy!

      Hope you have fun!

    5. MsCHX*

      The floral threw me just a little bit the color is nice. I’d pair it with black opaque tights and black heels and nice jewelry!

    6. apopculturalist*

      Cute! I love a fit-and-flare dress; I always wear them to weddings, so this seems appropriate to me.

      For a holiday party, I’d jazz it up with tights, a cardigan and a sparkly necklace. Holidays = sparkly/glittery things, in my mind.

    7. Intrepid*

      Tag-on question: I get to go to my holiday party! But the theme is “masquerade” and black-tie-esque, and I’m an entry-level temp at a non-profit. I have a dress that could do, except that the neckline is rather lower than I’d normally wear to the office. What should I consider in deciding if it’s OK?

      1. Annie Moose*

        If you’re really unsure about it, is it the sort of thing where you could put a dressy tank top underneath? Or one of those, like, cleavage cover things you can insert in low necklines. (you know, they sell them next to the fashion tape and nylons) Only would work with certain types of necklines/styles, of course…

        1. Intrepid*

          I have an all-lace T-shirt in the same color that I was thinking of layering underneath, as that would bring my actual neckline to a crew-neck and provide the semblance of coverage while hopefully still being dressy. I’m just worried that it’ll look weird, as I haven’t had a chance to try it yet.

    8. TheCupcakeCounter*

      Looks just fine to me – I would definitely look at accessories that might “up” the look a bit (black stockings instead of tights, pumps, a statement necklace or big earings)

    1. Not So NewReader*

      That is such a cool story. And they gave him good advice, to boot!

      It would be neat to find out he got the job.

  54. KL*

    This is probably a very silly problem, but it’s really starting to bother me. We got a new dean, Jana, about 15 months ago. I’m not Jana’s assistant, but the assistant to the associate dean. Since Jana started, she has been misspelling my name. Her assistant, Fiona, told me that it’s not a big deal and “not important enough” to bother the dean with when Jana first started. We are now 15 months in, and it’s really bothering me now. I wish I hasn’t listen to Fiona, but now I don’t know how to approach Jana this subject. How can I let her know that she keeps misspelling my name? Should I just email her and say “Hi Jana, Just for the record, my name is spelled KristIn, not KristEn.”? Going by her office to say it face to face came be tricky because she’s in a lot of meetings throughout the day. But, if that would be the best way to do it, I’m willing to give it shot.

    1. Zoe Karvounopsina*

      I think you need to admit the awkward, and through it out there. It’s awkward for both of you, and if you admit that, I think that either way would be fine.

    2. MegaMoose, Esq.*

      Does she email you directly? I’d just drop it casually in a PS to a response to one of her emails where she has misspelled your name. Like: “By the way, I’ve been meaning to let you know my name is MegaMoose, not MeegaMoose. Thanks Jana!” I get the misspelling thing a LOT, too. I find that it’s key not to make it awkward at all, because that just makes the other person feel awkward too.

    3. Leatherwings*

      Going into her office makes it a little formal to me. I might just send her (and a few other people) an email and say “I recently noticed that quite a few people had been misspelling my name, so I thought I might give everyone a heads that it’s spelled KristIn not KristEn. Easy mistake to make, but if you could correct it in your address book that would be great!”

      That way it’s not putting all the blame on her and makes it less awkward since you didn’t speak up right away.

      1. MsCHX*

        But it’s not quite a few people it’s her.

        ALWAYS correct the spelling/pronunciation of your name. It is not rude to do so.

        “Hi Jana. I probably should have mentioned this a long time ago but my name is actually spelled KristIn with an “I”.”

        1. Leatherwings*

          Yeah but there’s something to be said for doing this without making her feel put on the spot. What you said is fine too, but I don’t think it’s ridiculous to make it seem like a group thing.

    4. Arielle*

      I have had to have this conversation with a couple of people who were continually mispronouncing my name. I try to keep it casual and at the end of a conversation about something else. “Oh, by the way, this is a totally minor thing, but I pronounce my name Arielle, not Ariel.” I’ve never gotten any response other than an apology and a promise to remember. People usually want to know when they’re saying/spelling your name wrong.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      Just tell her that you did not want to mention it earlier because a new job means there’s lots of new stuff to absorb. But now that she is settled in you just wanted to mention that your name ends with “In” not “En”.

      Since she is doing it consistently she probably wants to get it right.

  55. MegaMoose, Esq.*

    Well, I made it through my interview earlier this week and am trying to put it out of my head. The thing that’s driving me crazy is that I’ve been interviewing for these government agency jobs for four years now and have never made it past the interview stage, though I have made it to the second round of interviews maybe 1 out of every 3 or 4 interviews. I’ve been trying to figure out if there’s something I’m doing wrong, thus my haunting of this website, and I’m really at a loss. If I wasn’t getting interviews, I’d look at fixing my resume and cover letters, but how am I supposed to figure out what’s going wrong in interviews?

    1. NaoNao*

      Well from what I read here, government agencies are surprisingly hard to get into. I don’t know the background of your career, but if you’re transitioning from private to public, that might be the issue there. Also from what I read here, government interviews are super rigid and not actually very helpful to the hiring committee/person.
      Having said that, and going on the assumption that you are already in government work and qualified for these jobs, it might (stress might!) be:
      You are a mismatch culturally and it shows in your outfit, demeanor, and answers (like for example everyone is super upbeat and bubbly and conventional, and you’re sleek, chic and serious)
      You’re using the job description only to talk about your previous work, rather than highlighting your accomplishments and projects or answering the questions in a very basic and literal way
      You are focusing on the wrong aspect of the interview (this can be hard to judge and it happens to everyone) like, they *say* they need XYZ skills but they really want a good fit above anything else OR they stress cultural fit but they need a change agent and someone to shake it up and someone up the line is insisting on the opposite of what they’re interviewing for
      There’s something that comes out at the interview that’s off-putting. Either a gap in the resume, something to do with scheduling or accommodations, you’re overqualified or a mismatch…something.
      Best of luck!!

      1. MegaMoose, Esq.*

        Thanks NaoNao. I’m sort of transitioning and sort of not – I left the private sector to go to law school and am trying for my first permanent job after a couple of years clerking. I have certainly heard that these jobs can be very hard to get, and certainly these agencies wouldn’t be calling me back for multiple interviews if I was totally blowing something (I recently interviewed with one office for the fifth time in four years). I’ll think on your advice – there may be something to some of those.

    2. Garland Not Andrews*

      If you are applying for Federal jobs, you may be doing nothing wrong. Frequently it depends on the candidate pool. Federal jobs use a point system with extra points for things like Veteran, disabled, etc. It took me almost four years and several interview cycles to finally get into a pool with the right mix of people and enough jobs being filled that I made the next level.
      So, keep your chin up, look into writing a “Government” resume as it can be different, and keep applying!

      1. MegaMoose, Esq.*

        I’ve primarily been applying for state jobs, but I know at least one of them used a points system, so it’s possible the others do as well. It’s good to hear that there can be light at the end of this particular tunnel – I’ll try and keep my chin up!

  56. Anon just this once*

    Hello! My job is great and I really like my company, but we’re in the process of growing from a sort of startup phase into being a real company, and there are growing pains. When I joined, our HR and accounting/finance departments were small, agile, and highly responsive. Now, as both departments have grown (each probably doubling in size) there’s a general “corporatizing” of many of our processes that generally makes life worse than it was before. As the departments grow in size, it feels like they do less and less for us.

    My role is a mid-level admin/support function, and I operate with the philosophy that there are content creators here who do the real work, who do the things that cause our company to make money and be what it is, and my job (and finance and HR’s jobs) is to make their jobs as easy and awesome as possible. I take pride in my role here.

    It’s increasingly difficult to tell what is necessary added process because we’re growing into a “real” company, and how much of it is just that we’re hiring more people from corporate environments and they’re instituting the same processes they’ve always used because That’s How Things Are Done, even if they don’t *need* to be that way.

    Advice?

    1. MsCHX*

      I will admit to coming from corporate HR and not liking *some* of the carefree ways of my current organization and wanting to implement policy that I think is appropriate. But I am still going with the flow of the organization while responding to things somewhere midway between How I Think They Should Be and How Things Are.

      However, there ARE things that DO need to change as the size of the organization changes. And startups are notoriously casual about a lot of things.

      I always say start with voicing your concerns to your manager.

    2. RR*

      Ask. When you are presented with a new process, you can ask why this change is being implemented. The key is to do so in an open, inquiring way. “I see that we now have to get Wakeen’s sign off before issuing document X. Before we used to just be able to send this off; can you please tell me a little bit about the reasons that led to this change?” Rather than, “Geez is this a waste of time and a bottleneck, why in the blazes do we have to do this nonsense extra step?”

      I know it can feel like a lot of process for process sake, and sometimes, sadly, that can be the case. But especially HR and Accounting, and especially with start ups, you may well have had insufficient internal controls; there may be more requirements you are subject to as your company grows (especially true with HR).

      It also is just a lot harder to be as agile in a larger company — roles and work flow may need to be re-defined.

    3. TheCupcakeCounter*

      Keep in mind that as the company grows that are more rules and regulations they have to follow in regards to hiring practices and financial reporting. Especially if your company has gone through an IPO and are now a public company.

  57. Zoe Karvounopsina*

    My probation is coming up. Who’s panicking? Not me! My manager has me going around and asking ALL THE PEOPLE for feedback…

    Also, one of the org’s Old Hands has just come back from a holiday. While she was away, we had a team meeting, and during that agreed that my colleague Wakeen would create a spreadsheet for our IT issues, so that we were being systematic about it. After the Old Hand got back, he mentioned it to her, and apparently she stepped on it pretty hard. He has now asked me to be the one to present it to the team, as while I am the most junior, I am not in her chain of command. My current plan is to bring it up at the next team meeting, and hope one of my colleagues gets in with noises of yay before Old Hand can be disapproving.

    1. TootsNYC*

      When you do that, focus on the problem (that the spreadsheet is supposed to solve) first. Establish that problem as legit and needing to be fixed. Then bring up the spreadsheet as the one that had bubbled up from everyone (i.e., not Wakeen) previously, appeal to the group, and say, “is that something that would still help us? Are you still wishing we were tracking our IT issues? And what do you think, Old Hand?”

  58. not really a lurker anymore*

    My husband is job hunting. He did the online application stuff for a huge company in our area.

    Now he’s getting emails suggesting he apply for certain jobs.

    At first we naively assumed that there was some screening for basic qualifications being met before the emails when out. Then he got the suggestion for applying for the job that required a nursing degree in addition to the financial/business/math stuff. Only problem, he doesn’t have any kind of nursing degree or CNA background. He’s strictly Business/Math degrees.

    He will continue to do his own research for their job listing. We’ve got a friend who works there and she says hiring is a hot mess and they changed hiring firms earlier this year to try to improve things. Not sure how suggesting jobs to someone missing 1/2 of a major qualification is going to help though…

    1. Kimberlee, Esq*

      Eh, I sometimes recommend people apply for jobs at my company that I haven’t really screened them for, especially if I’m rejecting them. The reason is that I really don’t know what a person I’ve never met on a team I’ve never worked for is really looking for, and if I see a candidate that maybe possibly could be a fit, I will send them over. Sometimes, that means I probably miss something major that the candidate doesn’t have because I didn’t notice that the candidate lacks that, or I didn’t notice that the job required it.

      Obvs, your current strategy (him continuing to do his own research) is working well! I just wanted to say that emails like that are not, inherently, an indication of hiring being a mess at a company. It could be a hot mess in one department and totally great in another, it could be a hot mess in the recruiting department but the other departments are totally fine on their end, etc. :)

      1. Intrepid*

        When I helped hire, too, I know that the harder to fill a role was, the more we worked to expand the candidate pool. So, if a role was just an RN, we could rely on enough people applying that we’d get a robust candidate pool and a good hire. If it was RN + Math + Business, we’d probably be looking at people who had 2/3 unless we knew for certain that we could find a dozen or so excellent 3/3s.

  59. Leatherwings*

    I got asked a question the other day I didn’t know how to answer:
    Joe had a job for three weeks that was a bad fit. He hated it, the boss hated him, and he ended up quitting before being let go. He didn’t put the job on his resume. When he applied for other jobs, he explained the gap as just job searching since it was only three weeks.

    Now he has reached the end of the interview process and has to fill out an application listing every single job he’s ever had in the past 10 years for a background check. Obviously he doesn’t want to lie on the application, but he basically already lied in the interview. How should he have handled this?

    1. katamia*

      If I were in this situation, my first instinct would be to contact the hiring manager and let them know and see how they want to handle it. However, I don’t know if that’s the right move or if that would get the job offer pulled (or maybe it’s both the right move and would get the offer pulled?). I wonder about this sometimes, too, because I’ve combined multiple gigs under one “freelance” entry on my resume to save space since they’re all similar in focus and I’m self-employed for all of them. I haven’t had to fill out a background check form in awhile, but I don’t know what I would do if I had to separate everything into separate “jobs.”

      I do agree with Joe that three weeks of a job can be considered job searching–he was looking for something that could be a decent fit, and clearly the three-week job wasn’t it.

    2. Down Home Auditor in SC*

      Maybe Joe can frame it as, “You might notice a job at XYZ Corporation listed on my job history. I just wanted to give you a heads up that I was there very briefly trying out a new job, but knew pretty much instantly that it wasn’t a good fit. I continued my active job search while I was there, and just decided to leave after 3 weeks to get back to focusing on my job search full-time. You may remember that we discussed a gap in my resume during the interview – I didn’t list this position since I knew I wasn’t going to be there long and it wasn’t going to be a position that contributed anything significant to my career. I just didn’t want there to be a perception that I was dishonest during my interview.”

        1. Down Home Auditor in SC*

          Thanks for the feedback!! I’m a long-time AAM reader, but this was my **very first** post in the comments section! :-)

    3. Cristina in England*

      How did he lie in the interview? Did they specifically ask about the gap that included the three weeks? How long was the gap otherwise?

      I don’t know anything about background checks so this is a real question asked out of ignorance: what would happen if he left it off the background check application too?

    4. Chaordic One*

      3 weeks really isn’t long enough to qualify as a “real” job and I would continue to leave it off of his resume and application. Three weeks isn’t much of a gap and I don’t think you even need to bother explaining it. If pressed, he should say he was “temporarily unemployed” for three weeks. This is more of a “white lie” and he should be consistent. I advise him to continue to leave it off and to omit it.

      Fugget About It.

    5. TootsNYC*

      (and this is why “relevant experience” is such a great phrase to have on your resumé–it gives you plausible deniability if you leave something off)

  60. Wendy Darling*

    I’m being changed from billable to overhead, after four weeks of the rest of my company refusing to work with me because then my time would go on their budget!

    Also I have three phone interviews because as the above indicates the place I work is a horror show.

  61. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

    Today is a two-fer Friday.

    How appropriate would it be to discuss with management the technical skill set of their employees?

    I am responsible for training 100+ employees on new tech, and our department is rapidly innovating the way we deliver experiences to our customers.

    Yet we have employees who do not know what the start menu or a window is. When they come into my class, even though I am taking 2 hours to teach something that took average users only 30 minutes to learn, they are still getting confused and lost.

    I want to suggest to the managers of these employees that they make familiarity with basic computing a requirement of the job, and point their employees to the free training we have online for this but I am afraid of coming across as ageist (although there are some younger folks in this group and older folks doing just fine!) or like I am telling them how to manager their employees.

    1. katamia*

      It seems like something that would be important to know. Can the people who don’t know what the start menu or a window is actually do all the tasks they’re required to do if they lack that level of computer knowledge? (I’m guessing since they’re being trained on new tech that the answer is no, but I also recognize that depending on their job descriptions it could be yes.) If I were a manager, I’d certainly want to know. However, a lot of managers out there might not want to. Is management usually open to that sort of feedback?

      Also, you may want to include more specifics. No names at this point, but while you’re trying to make your case if you do decide to tell, it might help to include information like how long it took you to train them versus average users, some of the questions you were asked that indicate a lack of computer knowledge, etc. That way it would go beyond the vague “Some people don’t know computers as well as I think they should” and into territory where management could maybe see more clearly what you’re talking about and what potential cost to the company is and so on.

    2. NW Mossy*

      In your role, extremely appropriate! You can’t be effective as a trainer if you have to spend 4x the allotted time to deliver the content you’re supposed to because the foundational knowledge base isn’t there.

      I’d suggest taking a line of approach like this: “When I present training on NewTech, I’m expecting that participants are coming in with [skills] to allow us to get through the content in [normal allotted time]. However, I’ve seen that we have employees coming into the trainings without [skills], which redirects the training into addressing those foundational gaps and makes it less useful for its purpose in teaching people NewTech. I’d like to suggest that we implement a short assessment before people sign up for the training so that we can identify those who need assistance with [skills] and get them the support they need. If you like, we could also talk to HR about making this part of our screening/interview process so that we know where people stand when they join us.”

  62. ACA*

    Does anyone have any advice or experience with navigating/surviving the workplace while getting a divorce? (I am not there – yet – but I might be.)

    1. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

      I would suggest not talking about the divorce at work and refraining from speaking ill of your spouse or ex-spouse during the period. This reflects more negatively on you than most folks realize!

    2. Anon Today*

      I am going through this myself now. I don’t tend to talk much about personal stuff at work in the first place, which makes it easier, but my advice is to NOT badmouth your STBX at work, and instead save that for your non-work friends. I also haven’t brought it up with supervisors. When asked “what did you do over the weekend?” I tend to say “my friend and I went to go see that new movie” or “I tried this restaurant downtown, it was great” and not say too many specifics.

      Make time for self-case. I have been coping by making sure I get plenty of rest and exercise, and I do immerse myself in work while at work.

    3. MsCHX*

      I was all set to tell my manager that I was going to be going through divorce when I moved out (and I told him that I was moving). I wanted the FYI in case I found myself unfocused and perhaps not fully on task. But I did not have any unfortunate reactions to my divorce. I felt so much better once I moved out and was free of the stress and drama.

      If you are close to your manager, I would definitely give the heads up. If not, and you find yourself overwhelmed, you can share that you have some things going on in your personal life right now which should suffice for those temporary hard times.

      Good luck!

      1. Down Home Auditor in SC*

        +1
        My husband struggles with alcoholism, and we are going through bankruptcy. Fortunately he hasn’t had any episodes with the alcoholism lately, but for a while there, we were fighting on a daily basis and it got so bad one night that I called the sheriff’s department on him.

        Needless to say, I was EXTREMELY embarrassed to tell ANYONE, let alone my boss, but it has such a tremendous impact on me when he has the more severe binge-ing episodes that I’m not myself mentally and emotionally, and it definitely impacts my work.

        I finally just bit the bullet and told my boss one day. I am fortunate to have a supervisor that is extremely trustworthy and very empathetic, so if you have a strong working relationship with yours, wait until a day that you’re feeling “up”, and just explain that the divorce may or may not happen, but you want him/her to know in case you’re ever “not yourself”.

          1. Down Home Auditor in SC*

            Thanks!! I just want ACA to know that it’s possible to work and cope with a difficult home life, as much as that home life makes it seem like everything is the pits. I’m a long-time AAM reader and have never commented on anything until today, but reading AAM is like my therapy! :-) I’m just glad to have an opportunity to share the AAM love! Lol

    4. NewNameToday*

      I went through this a couple of years ago. I found that most of the time, work was a relief from the difficulties at home. I had to live in a hotel for several weeks until I could get an apartment, and that was a little awkward, but for the most part, I didn’t say anything to anyone until pretty late in the process.
      I didn’t lie, but I didn’t share personal details until things were done:

      Initially:
      “What are you and [spouse] doing this weekend?”
      “Oh, nothing much. I have some errands to run [or whatever].”

      Later:
      “How’s [spouse]?”
      “They’re fine, but we’re sadly [separating/divorcing].”

    5. chickabiddy*

      At one point, I told people that I would be out for a legal appointment related to my upcoming divorce so the information would be on the table. Then I pretty much kept quiet about the rest of it.

      1. Random Citizen*

        On that note, what would be the right way to respond to a coworker who said something like that (referred to an upcoming divorce)? My inclination would be to say something like, “Oh, I’m so sorry! [topic change],” but it is “sorry” the right thing to say in that situation?

        1. Drew*

          It’s not wrong, although some people may say, “Don’t be sorry; I’m relieved!” Miss Manners once said that “I wish you the best” was a safer alternative, but it seems a bit cold to me.

  63. Anon for today*

    An opportunity has opened up at work which would be a significant step up, in title, responsibilities, and pay. I’m interested in the position for a number of reasons, and know I could excel at it. I’ve spoken to my boss about it, and she was encouraging – but let me know there would likely be other internal applicants.

    I’ve heard nothing but praise from her in my years here, or from my previous manager. When I’ve asked what I can do better, work on, etc the response is always “just keep doing what you’re doing.” She has expressed many time that she thinks I have a lot of potential.

    With one exception. I have chronic depression, which I think I tend to manage well publicly and not allow to be seen to impact my work. It is not something I disclose to anyone at work. Earlier this year I had a few months where I really struggled. I did my best to hide it at work, but both my boss and another manager in the department noticed something was going on. I didn’t disclose anything to either of them at that time, because I feel this is a very personal issue.

    I’ve adjusted my medication, and am feeling much better, and that has been noticed and mentioned by my manager. However, in discussing this potential promotion with the other manager in the department, he said she expressed concern to him about this period of time and was worried it would happen again. I know I could do this job well. I’m concerned that this could lead to me being passed over for this position.

    Question: How much do I disclose? A part of me feels she would be understanding and I could explain those few months, another part that because depression is not always understood thinks it would hurt me, and a third thinks it’s none of their business.

    Does anyone else have experience with this?

    1. KL*

      I’m sorry you’re having to deal with this. Would it be possible to just say you were dealing with a chronic health problem (just omitting what the problem was), but you’ve been working with your doctor a and found a much better way to manage it?

  64. Bea W*

    I hate finding out accidentally about UI changes that will negatively impact user experience, and therefore risk negatively impacting data collection, which makes my job harder. It’s so frustrating that people making these decisions or disseminating information to the people who will help them decide are largely separated from the nitty gritty daily bits and the ways in which our end users and even other teams are working. I feel like if you are working on our tech side these are things you need to make yourself aware of or at the very least know to solicit input from other types of users.

    I just needed to vent. This isn’t unique to my workplace. So many times I, as an end user, see a redesigned app or website and think WTF were people thinking?! Did anyone even test this in anyway that wasn’t from the developer’s point of view?! In the case of my job, iffy design results in iffy data collection and my team is responsible for data quality. It’s more work for us, and if it’s really bad, it will be more work for the technical group when we have to implement changes to address it.

    1. T3k*

      This happened recently to something I’ve been helping with (can’t go into details) but let’s just say they made a change and practically all the end users complained to the point they changed it back soon after that. I can’t even imagine how many complaints they got on just that one thing.

    2. Alice*

      Ooof, I think this happens everywhere. Why do we bother doing UX testing of new tool X when legacy tool Y is obviously terrible (and used much more)? I’ve concluded that user experience just isn’t a high priority.

  65. Nervous Accountant*

    Re: last weeks’ problem of the week w CC…I dropped i the matter and decided not to pursue…right now.
    Just venting—You know HOW HARD it is to take the freaking high road all the time, esp w this grossly incompetent pos.

    —-

    Seriously, how is anyone allowed to refuse to do some work. FML.

  66. Was Accused of Theft*

    I just started a new job after leaving a very toxic work environment. I like it so far, but something has come up that has made me feel nervous. Items have gone missing and the last item, a relatively nice GPS was stolen. Unfortunately, I was last person to use it and placed it on the desk of the Director (small non-profit) once I was done. In retrospect, I should have waited to give it her in person as she was not in her office when I left it on her desk. Well, one of my coworkers accused me of stealing it!

    I have a personal GPS in my car but lately it has not been working, which was why I used my org’s GPS in the first place and explained that to them. Well, this coworker peered into my car and saw my personal GPS and accused me of stealing. I know she peered into my car because my personal GPS is hidden in the junk I have in my car so in order to have seen it, she must have snooped around my car. I let the Director know including my supervisor and even had to produce evidence that it was mine. The only good news is that they never believed I had stolen it in the first place.

    And lately, items have gone missing and I am scared that my coworkers believe I am the one with the sticky fingers. Yesterday, one of coworker’s phone went missing (we found it evidently) but I overhead someone say that we should we “keep our eyes open” and based on what they were saying I have a weird feeling that they think that my starting date and the recent thefts are related.

    I have no idea how to prove that I am not stealing anything and it doesn’t help that everyone has known each other for years and have absolute trust in each other and I am the newcomer who applied to my job and was not referred by anyone and had to interview for my position. I have never been in this situation before and have no idea what to do.

    1. Brownie Queen*

      I am willing to bet the co-worker who took it upon herself to snoop in your car may be connected to the thefts. Sounds to me like she is smoke screening.

      1. T3k*

        I was thinking this too. And just to clarify, do you mean she actually went inside your car to snoop it out, because that’s just wrong on so many levels. At the very least, that could be considered trespassing.

        As what to do, I’d keep everything personal locked up if you can and return things from now on to the person. Sadly, I don’t know what else you could do, short of having a camera crew following you 24/7 to prove you didn’t steal anything (or perhaps request them to install cameras in main areas if the thefts are bad enough? Probably not enough to warrant that though).

        1. Yetanotherjennifer*

          I would clean out the inside of your car. Take everything you don’t need out of there, including the broken GPS, and put everything you do need in a logical place. If it’s noticed you could joke that you’d never know anything was missing in the mess. And keep it locked at all times. The messy car of someone who has been “suspected” of theft would be the perfect place for the actual thief to plant something to be “found.” I’d also keep your personal areas tidy so something can’t be hidden there as well. Then I’m afraid the only thing you can do is keep your head up, do the best job you can and ride it out. I’m sorry you’re in this position. Hopefully the thief is found soon.

      2. Not So NewReader*

        I think Brownie Queen is right. The coworker is the one who stole it. Please keep your car locked. If you can lock your desk/office please do that too.

        You can’t prove a negative. Don’t try.

        Tell your boss that you concerned about the accusations and you are concerned that people think it is you. Tell him you want to be very transparent with everything so that there is no question in anyone’s mind. Ask him for pointers. Tell him you have cleaned your car and now keep it locked. Work in the fact that it was a little weird that one person went through your car looking for the lost device.

        Meanwhile, work on being friendly with people. People are less apt to negatively judge a person who they think of as kindly. Treat everyone with the same level of friendliness.

        Added tip: Keep your desk/area neat. This one comes from personal experiences. I kept my areas picked up and semi-organized. I achieved this by doing clean ups on a regular basis- usually Friday afternoons worked well. I knew what I had and where it was. A naive coworker thought he could drop some extra work in my area and I would just assume it was mine to do. Another coworker laughed heartily, “Little does he know you are the most organized person here, he picked the WORST person to pawn work onto!” I laughed when the Boss explained to the Slacking Coworker that he had to take the work back.
        Although my story is a different scam, the advice still holds that keeping things in half way decent order will save you so. much. hassle.

  67. LiteralGirl*

    I’m pretty crabby at HR in my company. Over the summer, I told a friend (and former coworker) about the new salary level requirement for exempt workers. I sent her the link to the DOL web site. Told her about it, particularly the part about if you’re part time and under $47k then it applies (she works a .8 FTE); there is no prorating. She emailed HR and was told that it wouldn’t apply to her because it’s based on what your full time salary would be. I told her that wasn’t the case, but she believed HR.
    Fast forward to this last Monday (yes, November 14th). Her boss gets a meeting request from HR to discuss the issue. They finally figured out that there is no part-time exemption under the law and their solution is to make her non-exempt, effective the next pay period. She’s worked for this place for 10 years and her boss’s response is that she’ll be up to the exempt level salary in April of 2018. They should just bump up her salary $3000 and deal.
    No question, just venting. How is it that I’m in IT and knew this and the HR department didn’t even bother to figure it out? Grrrrr.

  68. Arts Marketing*

    I just wanted to share the exciting news that, due to the federal overtime mandate, I received a 30% raise! I’m now at the overtime threshold! It’s by no means crazy money, but for where I live (the Midwest), being only a couple of years out of college, and the arts industry, it was my best chance at this level of salary. I love my job so much, and it’s so interesting, challenging, and fulfills my creative side, but I was applying for other jobs just to try to make ends meet. Now, combined with my husband’s income, we can finally take our honeymoon. :)

  69. Jialis*

    I have an absent manager and I’m not sure how to deal with it. I’m a new employee (hired August this year) and I work about 95% from home, alone, with one coworker via email a few times per week. I have only met my manager in-person once post-interview (and it was a hello/goodbye). We’ve emailed twice since August. It’s a real job, with real pay, but it feels so bizarre feeling like I have no oversight. I think I’m doing quite well, but I have no idea. It’s so weird. What do you do? Apparently, I’ll have a performance review in a few months.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      I would email the manager and tell him that you realize that your review is coming up and you would like to make it a good review. Then ask does he have any concerns or recommendations that you could start working on right now.

      If you think you have a trouble spot here or there ask a couple questions.

    2. Chaordic One*

      I agree with Not So NewReader.

      Your situation is a bit bizaree and it would not be out-of-line to email your manager just to ask if everything is OK and if he or she is happy with your work and/or sees a need for improvement and/or change.

      Do you ever phone or Skype with your manager? I’d find it easier to discuss this over the phone, but that’s just me.

  70. TotesMaGoats*

    TDLR: In just this week I learned that my boss considers my personal political choice(s) to be ill-informed, uneducated and not worthy of being valued. Also my master’s degree “isn’t really as good” as, from a skills perspective, a different degree. Now, to be fair, she doesn’t realize that her comments were really offensive. One, she doesn’t know my political opinions. Since she has the warmth of a cold rock in winter, I doubt she really realizes how she maligned my preparation.

    Longer story: Obviously, I work at a higher ed institution. I knew going in that this place leaned very heavily on one side of the political spectrum. VERY HEAVILY. That’s cool though. It doesn’t impact me or my role and I’ve kept my mouth shut on what I think/feel/believe since I’m midway to the other side of the spectrum. I’ve got friends and family all along it and have positive relationships with everyone. So no big. Until the election. Had a meeting this week where boss was asking how our students were doing in the wake of things. She shared a conversation where some students who had a particular identity felt unsafe and some students on the opposite end of the political spectrum also felt unsafe sharing their views. The said those things weren’t equal and the second group feeling unsafe because of what they felt/thought/believed wasn’t important enough in the grand scheme of things. There was lots of nose looking down and superior attitude. Yes, political views can be changed. So, they aren’t changeable like race but religious views are changeable as well. I don’t think boss sees the difference.

    Bottomline is that I know now that my boss considers things that I think/feel/believe as uneducated and ill-informed. I guess I’ll just continue to keep my mouth shut knowing there isn’t a safe way to share what I feel. And I’ll also continue to know that a specific segment of our campus community feels like they aren’t valued either.

    2. AMPG*

      At the risk of pushing this conversation to places it’s not supposed to go on this site, the fact is that religious identity is often tied closely to ethnicity and cultural identity. People are regularly targeted for being associated with a religious group by birth, even if they are not currently practicing that religion (the “echoes” anti-Semitic phenomenon on Twitter is one example of this). So it’s really NOT the same as having an unpopular political opinion.

      I also think you’re using the word “safe” to mean two different things, here. Being afraid that you will be on the receiving end of anger, rudeness, condescension, etc. as a result of expressing your political views is different from being afraid that you will be physically harmed due to your race, ethnicity, or religious affiliation. Now, if I’m wrong, and both groups are afraid for their physical safety, then the university should absolutely address that. But otherwise the administration is correct to prioritize physical safety over general comfort.

      1. TotesMaGoats*

        I’ve typed and retyped a response and I can’t quite frame what I’m thinking. I don’t disagree with you that it’s not equal, necessarily. I’d also say that the current culture has created multiple meanings for the word safe and yes, in this particular case I do believe they are concerned for their physical safety because of their political beliefs and the climate on campus.

      2. Leatherwings*

        I’m glad you wrote this out in such a sensitive way. I wanted to say something similar but knew I wouldn’t put it eloquently.

    3. One Handed Typist*

      I’m seeing this issue played out on my University campus as well. The only violence in our area has been against those who voted for the President-elect, yet the school only offered counseling to those who felt unsafe and actually turned away conservative students. It’s such a difficult situation for everyone.

    4. Frances*

      You think that people who feel unsafe because of who they are should be put into the same category as people who are being called out for making them feel unsafe? That’s some new level of entitlement.

      You obviously think their views are wrong, so they have every right to disagree with you. You want a safe space to air your views there are plenty of platforms, especially considering that given the result, your side has the louder voice.

    5. Maya Elena*

      So, it just shows that specific opinions don’t automatically give a person class, humility, or generosity of spirit. File the information about this person away for later use.

      But if you have those things, eh. What are you really a victim of? A snide remark by someone who shows themselves not worth your esteem? Brush off, carry on.

      But then, perhaps you need to leave the campus and “breathe the free air again” among regular people….

    6. Not So NewReader*

      I am not sure if you mean unsafe as in physical danger or unsafe as in nasty words.

      I am going to assume physical danger for my example here.

      I would reduce this down to a bare bones discussion where my point would be that everyone should not have to fear physical harm for whatever reason.

      What I am aiming for is a baseline that you and your boss can agree on so that you two can continue working together.

      Hopefully, as you go along you will find more baseline things that you can agree on.
      Finding that first one is the toughest.

      My boss and I often disagree. Not like this and not to this extent. One thing that has worked for us is that we reeeally respect each other as professionals and as human beings. It took time to build that, this is not something that happens instantly. On a different day you MIGHT be able to reopen this conversation and get a more well-rounded response that you can work with. I have used this thought many, many times. “I will try this conversation again on a different day and see if it goes differently.”

      Now. I am saying all this with the idea in mind that you want this job to work out for the long term. It could be that you are not sure about staying long term. It could be that there are additional things I am missing. It could be your boss is an incurable jerk who slams everyone in sight for any reason. In those cases, just toss this post out.

    7. Anon for this*

      Feeling unsafe to share your views is NOT the same thing as being afraid that you will be assaulted because of your race, religion, gender, and/or sexual orientation. You fear being judged, I fear being physically assaulted. You can hide your political views. I can’t hide my skin color. As a woman of color, I’ve dealt with prejudice and harassment. However, this is the first time that I fear for my well being.

      That said, I can relate to censoring myself. You’re not alone in that aspect. My company is fairly diverse and appears to be tolerant. But I don’t talk politics or the election at work. As evidenced by the election, for many people racism, sexism, homophobia, islamophobia, and etc isn’t a deal breaker. I’m sure I have colleagues and associates that voted for the winner. I wonder what they think of me as a woman and a minority.

  71. J*

    Can anyone give insight into salary bands? I’d like to apply to a job that states that salary with fall within one of two bands. There is a $40000 difference between the minimum of the lowest band and the max of the highest band. I could only accept the job if it pays within $15k of the top. Is it pretty unlikely that the salary would be that high? I’m assuming they would need to leave room to grow. I don’t want to waste their time, since they did state salary. I also have a connection at the company, but dont want to call in a favor with him if I know the salary is below what I can accept. Thoughts?

    1. H.C.*

      It depends on the job description/requirements and how well you fit it; e.g. if their minimum requirement is 5 years of experience and you have 6, it’s likely you’ll get offered somewhere on the lower end. of that salary range, and a higher salary if you meet almost all their qualifications and then some (e.g. you have an advanced degree when qualifications only required a bachelor’s.)

      It may also be standard procedure for the company to initially offer at the lowest band, and leave it up to the candidate to negotiate up (which is what happened to me with my current job – it took a while but I did get to a salary I’m comfortable with before accepting.)

    2. Lily Rowan*

      At my job, a given position could be anywhere inside the band, depending on department and other factors, but yeah, you’re more likely to be hired in the bottom half.

    3. Cass*

      I work at a university with similar bands. From what I know of my organization, you start out closer to the bottom, closer to the middle if you are exceptionally qualified.

  72. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

    Ugh. Help. I’m almost crying and panicking at my desk.

    Basically, my wife just filed for disability and work leave without consulting me, due to her depression. The election and the harassment we have faced since made it a lot worse.

    But, we really can only survive financially and pay everything with us both working at least most of the time. And we only have $750 in savings. Rent is two weeks of my pay.

    So I have to stay here for five more hours, while panicking about money and if she’s okay, because we need the money now more than ever!

    2. E*

      Check with local area resources, you may be able to qualify for rent/utility assistance. Visit food banks. Do what you need to, to stretch your savings and income. I’ve been there, my husband had to file for disability and stay home while I started a new job. It wasn’t easy but there’s a lot of help out there and stretching pennies becomes second nature.

    3. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

      I am sorry you are going through this!

      Groceries is an area my husband and I found we could really cut back. We cut the weekly grocery budget from $130 to just $30 per week.

      Grocery tips if you are interested:
      Shop frozen veggies on sale.
      Canned fruits. Frozen fruits tends to stay expensive.
      Beans and canned fish for protein.
      Oatmeal, flour, and sugar as they come on sale. We baked our own bread but had the yeast and whatnot already.
      Dairy: only the cheapo large tubs of yogurt and would by a block of cheese as a “treat”
      We kept our expensive eggs but cut the use down.
      We switched to a cheaper grocery store.

    4. Sibley*

      Obviously, this sucks. I really hope your wife improves. Besides the money, I’m sure you’re worried about her!

      Other things you can do to cut back expenses, some harder than others (with absolutely no knowledge of what your situation is, but common stuff):
      -stop eating out. take lunch with you to work, every single day.
      -stop buying coffee everyday
      -stop buying stuff. any stuff. no matter if you think you need it. cut up the credit cards if you need to
      -cancel cable tv
      -get a roommate, or move to a cheaper place
      -sell stuff you don’t need
      -sell expensive cars and pay off debt, buy cheap used car instead
      -shop around car/rent/home insurance for lower rates
      -do free stuff for entertainment. Libraries are your friend here.

      Realistically, I would recommend figuring out every penny you spend, and evaluating if you need that thing or can get it cheaper. Which is not easy, especially in the sort of situation you’re in. If you really want tough love here – go to mrmoneymustache.com and post a case study in the Forum.

      Captain Awkward has a list of free/low-cost mental health resources if you need them.

      1. Natalie*

        -sell expensive cars and pay off debt, buy cheap used car instead

        This is mostly good advice except for the above. The math on selling a car to pay off the remaining auto loan balance rarely works out in your favor. And that’s before you take into account the relative dearth of “cheap used cars” post-Cash for Clunkers and the comparatively high cost of maintenance for an older car.

        If you have two cars and one spouse not working, consider garaging one vehicle instead of trying to sell it. Particularly if you don’t have a loan on that car, you can save quite a bit on insurance as well as, of course, not spending on maintenance at the moment.

    5. No Name Yet*

      What a really tough situation, on so many levels. I’m sorry you’re having to go through it. Sending you and your wife good thoughts.

    6. neverjaunty*

      Don’t panic – easier said than done, I understand, but there are ways to work on the money angle as others have noted.

      I’m really, really a lot more concerned that your wife made a major and serious financial choice without consulting you, and it doesn’t sound like it was an emergency or safety issue. Depression is a bear but that doesn’t make it OK for her to pull this.

      1. Observer*

        You’re making a lot of assumptions here. It IS concerning that she did this without consultation. But, you don’t know that she was being cavalier about this.

        What I would say is that it’s worth it for Over to find out why her wife decided to go ahead without any discussion.

    7. Anono-me*

      That is tough for both of you. I hope things are better soon.

      Talk to your landlord, utility companies, creditors and any one else you make monthly payments to. Even if they don’t have official hardship plans, most people will work with you to change your contract, or defer what you owe. ( Some because they are nice and some because they are smart enough to know 1/2 a loaf is better than none.)

    8. Girasol*

      I’m so sorry for your situation! Is your wife at all interested in old fashioned home economy? When I got hit with a layoff and felt crushed and in financial limbo, I found that creative grocery buying and cooking, Craigslisting, home budgeting, and such made an enjoyable hobby as well as reducing our financial woes. After awhile I added morale management: finding interesting cheap/free activities to cheer us up. It was a way to take some control of a situation that felt mostly out of our control. Might your wife find some comfort in doing that and taking some of the stress off you?

    9. Not So NewReader*

      In part, panic can stem from lack of facts or knowledge.

      Tell yourself that you will collect up more facts before you decide how you feel about this whole situation.

      Yep, most people would feel very stressed at this point. Baby steps are a good thing. Inch your way through the situation, just go one step at a time.

      It’s really easy to imagine worst case scenario as what happens next. But think about your life and think about how many times the thing you feared actually happened. Most times, when you were in the moment, probably something happened or occurred to you and that made the situation less bad than you had imagined. Remind yourself that very seldom do our worst fears become total reality.

    10. Pat Benetardis*

      Hey, I hope your wife is ok and gets the treatment she needs. Mental illness is an illness and sometimes does need treatment urgently, even if it’s not life threatening. It sucks that this was unplanned, as illness related leaves often are.

      I know this will be hard and I wish you the best in getting through it.

  73. Joyce*

    I’m desperately looking for some advice here…
    I lost my job in June. I was a co manager of a large specialty retail store and the hiring manager for all locations (I do not have a degree in HR nor did I have any previous background in hiring btw, it just got added to my responsibilities and I ended up being very successful at it). Before that I was in a specialized field support role (traveled for work and managed a large territory) and before that I was in the veterinary medical field for many years. So, I know my experience is broad and all over the place but everything I have done has involved high level customer service, client and staff management and basically being extremely adapatable while being on the ball at all times.

    The issue is that it’s now November and I have only gotten two phone interviews and nothing else, neither of which progessed (one on their end and one on mine). I believe that my resume is solid, I’ve looked at many as a hiring manager and know what I liked to see and what I didn’t and I have also had multiple HR professionals and the unemployment office look at it and they all say it looks great. I tweak it for the roles I apply for and write a personalized cover letter for each application. I am applying everything I can find related to my broad range (not specific) skillset. I’m just wondering if this is standard? Is everyone else that is job hunting having the same experience? I have several friends all over North America (the US and Canada) who are unemployed and are saying it takes a long time but they are at least getting interviews. I am just coming up on 5 months of unemployment and it’s about to run out and I live by myself so I’m getting very nervous and am feeling really beaten down. So I guess I am looking for any advice anyone has or any hope of seeing light at the end of the tunnel? Thank you all in advance, this site has been such an amazing rescource and I wish I had know about it before I had lost my job.

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      First, I send hugs. I left a job in August and just accepted an offer, and no matter how long it takes, it’s a tough road.

      Second… are you only applying online? Have you reached out to anyone in your network, or tried any type of networking? Talking to people in person is a big help, and if nothing else, you can get some support. If there’s an association for your chosen field in your area, they might have events (lectures, job fairs) that can provide networking opportunities.

      Third, what types of jobs are you looking for? Are you going broad, or keeping things very narrow? There are benefits to both, but depending on your field, one might be better than the other.

      1. Joyce*

        Thank you!
        I am mostly applying online. I have attended multiple networking events and career fairs and none have been fruitful. I have tried reaching out to my personal network but many live out of my area (as I used to travel for work) so I have applied for somethings that way but again, no luck. I have also attempted to register with 2 recruiters in my area, neither of which were much help.
        As for types I have stuck with field support, management and retail. I would prefer not to do retail but at this point would. I started my search for a few months very specific and then broadened if after that when I wasn’t too successful. Maybe the answer is to go to entry level things now? I’m not sure. Regardless, thank you for your advice and for listening :)

      2. Sherm*

        Joyce: It does take a long time. It took me 18 months to find a (new) job. I hope you’re not taking unemployment personally or beating yourself up about it. Keep on networking, and networking is EVERYONE you know, not just people in your field. You may be surprised who knows whom. A friend of mine who does not work in my field at all introduced me to someone who got me freelance work, which looked great on my resume. Another thing: that’s great that you are tailoring your cover letter, but when you apply broad you especially need to make sure that you are conveying your interest in that particular job, that you envision it to be a long-lasting match. Best of luck!

        AvonLady: Congratulations! I remember earlier that a potential employer told you they were intrigued by your submission, and you were afraid they thought it was all sorts of wrong. Was this the employer that hired you?

        1. AvonLady Barksdale*

          Just seeing this now, but nope, different employer. For this one, I did a custom analysis and a presentation, and when it came time for writing samples, I had to go all the way back to grad school to find one that would work. Imagine that. :)

    2. Colette*

      I’ve been laid off three times. The first two times, it took me seven months to find a job; the last time, it took six months. In all three instances, I took a job with the second place I interviewed with. So you’re not alone.

      I also have a broad range of positions, which I think is my issue as well.

      I second networking. It might lead to a position, and it might not, but it’s a good way to feel competent, which is so important. And, if it helps, i got my last two jobs through networking.

      Hang in there. It’s hard, but you’ll get through it.

    3. SeekingBetter*

      I’m sorry to hear about the lack of interest from employers since you were laid off. I have been looking since last December for another position, and have been getting interviews, but disappointingly, no job offers yet. My experience is pretty straightforward except for an unrelated career job I worked at for seven years. I trust that your resume is excellent though. I don’t know if your very broad range of experience helps or hurts you when organizations and hiring managers are looking at your resume. And I sure hope that’s not the case. Good luck!

    4. Not So NewReader*

      If you can, get Alison’s book. Really go over your resume with a fine tooth comb.
      It sounds like you have skill sets in place and are very capable,so that is not the problem.

      Take nothing for granted and look over your process, what do you see that you think you can tweak.

      I am wondering if you are pigeon holing yourself into a certain few jobs. The brain drain here is incredible, I know. Maybe you can find friends who would help you bounce around fresh ideas.

      1. Joyce*

        Thnak you for your advice! I will definitely check her book out and there is probably some truth to pigeon holing myself so I will try to open up my thought process on where I apply.

  74. Get a Haircut*

    So… yay! I got a job! …And the unthinkable happened- I got a crush on a coworker- ack! This is what I get for advising everyone else about this sort of thing. Nothing is going to happen, obviously… but it doesn’t help that I’m going through a tough time in my relationship right now.

    1. AngtheSA*

      I am with you on this. I am happily married and so is he, but it doesn’t stop the attraction. It help that we both went on vacations and didn’t see each other for an entire month and he moved to a new department. I hate it. I feel like I am in highschool all over again.

      All that to say my advice is to concentrate on his worst quality, and keep everything you do about work. Don’t even tempted yourself into going personal beyond the standard “how was your weekend” or “that weather”.

      You are not alone and it does happen to everyone, even when there relationships aren’t tough.

    5. neverjaunty*

      Keep reminding yourself that, eventually, the crush WILL go away and you WILL wonder what the hell ever possessed you. And funnel that energy back into fixing (or leaving, if it comes to that) the current relationship.

    6. Nerfmobile*

      Congrats on the job! Coworker crushes can be especially common when you are having a tough time in a relationship. You know not to let it go anywhere, but it’s so hard in the small moments! this too shall pass.

  75. Asking Anonymously*

    I have a really awkward situation with one of my colleagues and I don’t know how to handle it.

    Last week we were at a meeting with a client, and after hours my colleague and the other people from our company who came went for a few drinks. Early on I mentioned that I usually try and keep my friends and colleagues as two separate groups. For some reason this prompted the one colleague to go on what I’d frankly call an unhinged rant with all sorts of weird guessesabout my social life, calling me “socially retarded” and “a serial killer” and all sorts of other really unhinged, mean spirited, oit of nowhere claims. This person is very negative (she’s always saying that this person is incompetent, this other person was only hired for their race, and all other sorts of nasty stuff like that) and for that reason I try to not interact with her unless I have to. Our senior colleagues just sort of awkwardly laughed.

    When we got back, I raised this to me and Nasty Colleague’s mutual boss. He acknowledged it was way beyond acceptable conduct and that he’d talk about this with her. The response was that he would talk to her but that I still have to work with her because she is important to the company.

    Since then nothing has happened and I feel really uncomfortable working with this person. Apparently our rumor is that she threatened to quit, and we are undersfaffed, so our boss is doing nothing about it. Should I quit?

    1. Newby*

      I don’t think anyone but you can really answer the question of whether or not you should quit. If working with her is something that you cannot do, then you probably should. You could also try talking to your boss again and saying that you are uncomfortable working with her and try to figure out if there is some way to limit your interaction.

    2. H.C.*

      I’d wait until a similar incident comes again with Nasty Colleague (either directed at you or one of your colleagues). And if possible, shut it down right at the moment (e.g. “That kind of talk is rude and inappropriate; please stop.”) in addition to reporting it to your boss. And encourage your co-workers to do the same if they were targets/witnesses to N.C.’s remarks.

      And when you report to the boss again, hold him accountable by asking him what is he going to do about the issue now that it’s becoming a pattern. If there’s still no real consequence for N.C., then consider looking for other jobs.

      In any case, I’d hesitate to threaten to quit as a “it’s either me or N.C.” power play (not sure if you mean it that way, given your last paragraph.)

      1. Asking Anonymously*

        In all honesty, yes, in a sense it is me or N.C.

        First of all, it’s not like we had been drinking for hours before she blew up on this rant. We’d left the client site and headed into the bar maybe half an hour before that. One beer for everyone. So I can’t blame this on liquor talking.

        And secondly I have been diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome, back in the 1990s. While I work hard at it I acknowledge I might unknowingly weird someone out. There’s a huge difference between “oh he’s kind of weird sometimes” and “I bet he’s a serial killer, a real sick bastard”. This was really malicious and hurt me in a very personal way. It’s something that needs to be acknowledged and responded to because she basically dropped a nuke on our working relationship.

        Maybe this is the wrong way to look at it, but I feel like I do have power here because we are EXTREMELY understaffed. I’m just not sure of how to indicate this. I’m not going to say “either you remove her or me from the department” because that’d just poison my relationships with everyone else but if they’re not going to address it then I will absolutely be leaving the company.

        1. AMPG*

          Do you feel NC was referencing your diagnosis in her rant? Because that could rise to the level of discriminatory/harassing behavior, if I’m not mistaken. That could be one way to keep the conversation going with management.

    3. fposte*

      Wow, that sounds unpleasant, and I’m not thrilled with senior management’s response there at all. But I don’t think “Should I quit?” is be a straight yes or no question. Quit if you think it’s best for you–if it’ll work for you financially and careerwise, if you can’t face working with this person ever again, and there are other things that had made you think about leaving the job. But don’t quit to demonstrate your displeasure with the situation, because that’s not a message that’s going to be heard in any useful way.

      1. Asking Anonymously*

        In terms of voicing my displeasure, I’m thinking of saying something like this right now: “N.C. calling me socially retarded was way over the line in any case but it’s even worse here because I have been dealing with Asperger Syndrome since childhood. Because of that I can’t just pretend this never happened and go on working with her. We need to have some sort of serious conversation about both N.C. and my futures at the company. Maybe we could ensure that we always work with different clients or maybe I could move to another department or something else, but something has to be done about this.”

        But I’m worried thst saying that would be basically admitting I’m going to leave and that that would get me fired.

        1. Marisol*

          it sounds to me like you need advice/support from someone who is experienced in helping people with Aspergers navigate these kinds of situations.

          But since you are seeking advice here on this forum on whether or not to quit, I say no, don’t quit, and try to get better at learning how not to take other people’s psychological problems personally. The woman is a nutter; that’s on her, not you. We all have to learn this skill and it’s never pleasant. I think you might be taking an extreme, overly black-and-white perspective. If you can find another job easily and it won’t cause you problems to leave, then go ahead, but this problem will continue to present itself in some way shape or form wherever you go, because there are always going to be jerks in the world. My assessment, as a complete internet stranger, is that your interests are better served by learning how to tolerate other people’s disapproval, and practicing good internal psychological boundaries, than by trying to escape this situation.

    4. Anon 12*

      You can either ignore it and carry on, or clear the air directly with nasty colleague. Since it’s unlikely that she will admit to being nasty and apologize, the best you may be able to get is a re-boot. “I found that conversation terribly awkward and the things you said suggest I you have a negative opinion of me. Since we have to work together and, at least for me, this feels like a burr under the saddle, can we agree to a reset? Let’s start over and if needed, be explicit about anything we need from each other in a work environment in order to be comfortable and productive. I’m not asking for us to exchange opinions on personality traits or lifestyle decisions, just objective work behaviors.”

      I had something similar happen once. In a team building session gone wrong the consultant had us sit in a circle and share truths. A relatively new (socially awkward in his own right) colleague ripped me for being incompetent in front of the team. We weren’t supposed to be defensive but everybody was uncomfortable and a few others offered some tactful words in my defense. My take was that he was trying to communicate that he had higher expectations for delivery from my team, but the word choice was needlessly negative and far from constructive. After a day or two, I just called him up and said lets talk about what you need and what I’m prepared to deliver. It didn’t make him not a jerk but it lessened the tension and we moved on.

      1. Asking Anonymously*

        Yeah this hurts me really badly because I was diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome decades ago. I also deal with social anxiety. I don’t say this to excuse myself from occasionally being weird or making people uncomfortable, because I work very hard to communicate well with people. But this hits me in a really sensitive place.

        One time an old boss made a remark and all I had to say was “hey, I know you don’t know this but I actually was diagnosed with AS as a kid and those type things tend to hit me hard. Can we not talk about that in the future?” And he was understanding of that. I don’t think in being unreasonable here in telling our boss that what she said was beyond the pale and someone needs to rein her in.

    5. neverjaunty*

      You should start a job search, but not because Nasty Colleague is still around – you should move on because management appears to be spineless. Nasty Colleague has a long history of making awful and racist remarks (that’d be opening the company up for liability) and apparently nothing will really be done about it because “she is important to the company”? There will be no action taken other than maybe talking to her, whatever that means, because the company is so understaffed they’ll retain her?

      Believe me, people like NC do not get better or back down when management shows that they don’t care or are afraid of her.

      1. Asking Anonymously*

        Nasty Colleague has said before that if she’s let go she’ll start a complaint about gender discrimination. She seems…decent at her job as defined by the job description and abysmal at dealing with other people.

        They’re not firing her because we are extremely understaffed. Nobody gets fired here unless they scream and curse at another co-worker in the office. But that’s not an excuse. That’s management sucking really terribly at their jobs.

        I figure the best way I could out it with my boss is “Look, NC’s comments are way way way past anything I can reasonably consider just joking around. I have been working with mental health professionals to control my social anxiety and Asperger Syndrome for many years and I can’t just go on and work here effectively pretending that this did not happen. What can we do?”

        1. neverjaunty*

          I personally would avoid mentioning anxiety or ASD – not because these are unimportant but you don’t want them to turn this into you being “oversensitive”.

          But yeah, any company that behaves this way is beyond help. Wouldn’t matter if NC got swallowed up by the earth tomorrow – it’s an environment where where management is so poor that they tolerate NC and her behavior.

        2. One Handed Typist*

          Don’t mention your mental health. Honestly, it’s irrelevant. It doesn’t matter that you have social anxiety and Asberger. Her comments were unacceptable no matter what. That you felt it more keenly is again irrelevant; anyone would have felt attacked at her behavior.

          Your boss is not handling this well. Do you have an HR? This needs to be documented – both that it happened and that there was no disciplinary action taken.

          1. AMPG*

            I dunno…calling an Aspie a serial killer sounds like it fits the legal definition of harassment to me (although I’m not an expert in this area).

          2. AMPG*

            I think calling an Aspie “serial killer” rises to the level of hostile environment, though, since it targets his disability (with the caveat that I’m not an expert on this subject).

            2. Marisol*

              yeah but since no one knows about the condition in question, I don’t think it can be mens rea, i.e., guilty mindset. although IANAL

              1. neverjaunty*

                Mens rea is a criminal-law thing, it doesn’t really have much to do with workplace misconduct.

        3. Not So NewReader*

          You have the immediate problem of this foul-mouthed person and you have a longer term problem of spineless bosses. I find the latter the most concerning, because it means that Nasty will work there until her last day on earth if she wants to. And probably she will keep doing what you see now.

          I think, if you can afford to do it, give your notice. But if you think you can calm yourself in some manner, you could consider staying long enough to find a new job.

          If you want to say something you could go along the idea of, “I cannot work with a person who makes verbal attacks about disabled people. And I cannot work in a place where mocking disabled people is acceptable.”

          This sounds like a very difficult work place. I am sorry you are going through this crap.

    6. catsAreCool*

      “she is important to the company.” Weird. I wonder how important they’ll think she is when someone does sue the company because of her. From what you’ve said, it sounds like only a matter of time.

      She sounds pretty unhinged, and you said people get fired for screaming at people in the office. Any chance someone will say something that will get her to do that?

  76. SQ*

    I have a question about when do you stop using someone’s college performance as a basis from judging their work? I understand not holding something minor that happened 5-15 years ago against them, but this is a very recent thing less then 2 months ago.
    I’m a senior associate at a branch office of a major accounting firm, I’m not a manager nor do does anyone report to, however I am one of 3 senior associates who are regularly put in charge of new client projects, and am responsible for directing team members in their work. This year I returned to school to get my graduate degree as a Online student.
    Recently, we began a advertising for a entry level position, and one the applicant is a classmate of mine in my ENG class. I have never met her in person, but we were placed on a group project together last month, her resume details match up with everything I do know about her as we all had to do Digital Portfolios with pictures included and her name isn’t that common.
    During our group project I found it very difficult to work with her as 1) she was unavailable for group collaborations and wouldn’t answer emails, 2) she constantly missed the deadlines on her parts, her reasoning was always related to how she had a game or there was a big school game she was attending causing everyone having to rush (less then 2 hours) to complete a group task to include her parts before it was due or just leaving it out all together, and 3) the work she did provide always showed a fundamental lack of understanding of her task, such as we asked her to describe the steps in how she conducted the research for her part, and she would write about the results instead.
    I don’t know if she’s a strong candidate for the job we haven’t started interviews yet, but I wanted know if I should speak up about my experience working with her as this was in a school setting or not. If hired she would still be in school for at least another year before graduating with a BA, and likely doing data entry on time sensitive client projects during that time.

    1. Leatherwings*

      I would definitely take this as valuable information about her, don’t be afraid of “holding it against her.” Particularly because she would still be in school while working for you!

    2. fposte*

      Don’t be misled by “college”–that’s just the venue for recent performance in this case. Recent performance is always fair to consider.

      It sounds like you’re at risk of bending over too far backwards trying to be fair to her, so take yourself out of the mental picture. Do you really want to saddle your co-workers with somebody who performs like this?

    4. Sibley*

      I will say that that some people have a weird switch in their brain – college, they suck. Work – fine. No idea why, but I have seen it.

    6. Chaordic One*

      After someone has a couple of year’s of experience and if they’ve done reasonably well outside of school you can certainly move past someone’s schooling as a measure of their suitability to perform a job. In your case, since it is so recent that she made such a bad impression, and because she not only under-performed, but also didn’t seem to understand the nature of the projects you worked on, I would be inclined to think that she’s not a strong candidate for the job.

      Unless the other candidates are totally unsuited, you can pretty safely consider them before you consider your schoolmate.

  77. CC*

    So a few weeks ago I asked in the open thread about resources for learning how to manage your own career. Is anybody interested in this becoming an ongoing discussion?

    Basically, after Alison’s post about how to tell if you’re managing your career effectively, I realized not only was I not doing so, I didn’t really know how to start doing so in an effective way. From the discussion in the comments, I realized I wasn’t the only one in that position. So I asked. Unfortunately I asked very late in the thread (I don’t have internet at work so I’m very limited in when I can participate) and while I got a couple of good replies, I would like to try again.

    My training and experience and interest is in a specialized technical field (chemical engineer) so I am biased toward resources for how a technical person who doesn’t want to be a people manager can manage their career, but how to manage your career in general, whatever path you’re on, will still be helpful.

    Links and information I’ve collected so far to follow.

    1. CC*

      Alison’s article “Have You Managed Your Career Well?” that got this whole line of investigation started for me.
      http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/outside-voices-careers/articles/2016-10-17/have-you-managed-your-career-well

      A TED talk by Susan Colantuono titled “The career advice you probably didn’t get.” (Spoiler: I didn’t get that advice either. And it’s not “network!” or “work harder!” because everybody already gets that advice.)
      http://www.ted.com/talks/susan_colantuono_the_career_advice_you_probably_didn_t_get

      A LinkedIn article by Mel Wilson titled “10 things I’ve learned from working in the sustainability field for 25 years.” (Some of the items are things I’ve noticed myself and apply outside of sustainability.)
      https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/10-interesting-things-ive-learned-from-working-field-25-mel-wilson

      Manager tools podcast (suggested by Alison)
      https://www.manager-tools.com/

      1. CC*

        Also, which I forgot to include in the links because it isn’t really a link: mentoring. My professional association offers a formal mentoring program, and explicitly says it’s not just for people fresh out of school, but anybody at any stage looking at new challenges. Succession planning is one that is explicitly mentioned as an example, and that’s more of a senior management kind of thing. Other mentoring programs may have a component like that; it’s worth looking into.

        I am trying to formulate my questions to my association’s mentoring program so they can match me with a suitable mentor.

    2. Jean*

      Oooh, this sounds interesting. I’ll check back here later. (No pressure! We can always post this request again on another Friday.)

      1. CC*

        If there is interest, I’m thinking I might repost every friday (or every second friday) and update the post with links I’ve collected to that point to avoid rehashing the same resources. The post with my links to date is still in moderation, just waiting for Alison to see it. Shouldn’t take too long, I hope. Maybe she’s at lunch, the time stamp on it is just after 12PM.

    4. Mela*

      I’m not sure if this is what you meant, but one thing I do to manage my career is to keep a spreadsheet with various 5 year plans. As I hear about opportunities (fellowships, conferences, new graduate programs), I can plug it into the spreadsheet quickly. Then when I’m in the mood to “plan” my career, I can easily open up the spreadsheet and play around with options and timing. I don’t end up pursuing 90% of the stuff on that list, but it sort of guides me towards what kind of things I want to be doing.

      For instance, I was at one point super excited about an opportunity teaching English in another country; that program required a certain level of proficiency in the local language, which I wanted to do anyways for career reasons. After a year or so, I realized I was still excited about improving my language skills, but not about the program that inspired it. So that sent me in a different direction seeking out ways to learn the language.

      I’ve been using this since college, and I just noticed the other day that there are 12 lines on the spreadsheet that have actually happened, as opposed to when I created the document and everything was still in the future.

      1. CC*

        That sounds like it could be a useful tool. A collected record of things I would like to do, options for how to get there, steps to take – that might make them less intimidating and more likely to actually happen.

        I’m still working on figuring out how to hear about opportunities before they happen instead of after, though… my school life was all about hearing about cool competitions and events when awards were handed out. Wait, there was a competition? My work life wasn’t much better. I did go to one conference but I really had no idea what to do there other than listen to people talk about different subjects, kind of like a pick your own class schedule. Which was interesting, but I’m not sure what I got out of it.

        1. Mela*

          Mailing lists! I get emails all the time from organizations in my field that put out weekly newsletters or something to that effect. It has all that stuff. If you hear about something after the fact, go to their site and see if you can sign up for notifications about x. Or just sign up for their regular newsletter and sift through it.

          For conferences, try asking good questions and networking a bit. At a minimum, I write down the places everyone works so I can check it out later, and then I bookmark their jobs page

    5. IT burningout*

      Yes! I’m interested. I don’t have anything to contribute at the moment, but I’ll work on it.

  78. Anonymeow*

    I had a call with an recruiter who found me on LinkedIn. I was surprised but pleased, since I’ve not had a direct recruiter scout me before.

    I took the call and it was a pleasant conversation but there were red flags galore. It was a decade old company, but kept using startup-y words like “scrappy,” , “hypergrowth,” passionate,” and “grit and determination.” When I asked the expected hours, I wasn’t given a straight answer. I was told “well, we’re in hypergrowth, so it’s all hands on deck” and sidestepped the question. In the end, I turned it down. I dug through their Glassdoor reviews and most were way too glowing to be real. The lower started reviews made sense–long hours, micromanagement, problems galore.

    This got me thinking: what words or phrases make your internal “NOPE!” meter go off in an interview?

    Mine are scrappy and passionate. For me that indicates long hours and awful work life balance. I need good work/life balance. If I’m stressed out at work and bring it home, I won’t sleep well and I feel like hell the next morning. That on a regular basis? Recipe for disaster!

    1. Colorado CrazyCatLady*

      Yes, scrappy! Also, unlimited vacation. Because it seems like a “cool” benefit, but in my experience, it’s been worse than my limited vacation benefits at other jobs.

    2. Leatherwings*

      Passionate doesn’t bug me (probably because I do nonprofit work), but I feel you on the word “scrappy” – I’ve had jobs where I was expected to work miracles on a shoestring budget/staff and I’m never doing that again.

      For me, the word “rockstar” or “superstar” is a huge turn off. I am really really good at what I do, but I find the culture of places that demand “rockstars” to be terrible. I also hate job posting that talk to me like:
      “Are you a passionate, organized, hardworking individual? This job might be right for you!” although I don’t have a great reason why. I just skip those postings.

      1. Bob Barker*

        Yeah, I had a phone screening with someone I got along well with, for a position that as described sounds like a goodish fit… except that she used the word “rockstar.”

        It’s at a big, established workplace; then again, it’s in a workplace literally across the street from Big Huge Tech Dudebro Corp. Like, prooobably it’s just some buzzword that crept into her vocabulary due to tech dudebro exposure. But I was surprised how it instantly changed my perception of the otherwise-positive phone call.

        (I’m still going to interview in person, but I’m considerably more wary than I was.)

    3. Manders*

      Mine is any word from an Asian culture used thoughtlessly in a job title or description. I don’t mind the “rockstar” type language, but when I see words like “ninja,” “sherpa,” “samurai,” or “guru” I know that’s a company that isn’t putting any thought into the possibility that the person they’re hiring won’t fit the young white dude mould.

      1. JustaTech*

        I once saw a job posting for a “sensei” that had nothing to do with either martial arts or computer tech. Or teaching of any kind. It set off every single one of my “oh heck no” bells.

      2. Emilia Bedelia*

        I admit to having applied for an internship titled “Padawan”
        Perhaps I should be glad I didn’t hear anything back :)

    4. Kai*

      Any company that mentions free dinner and/or cab rides home for people working late is a big NOPE for me. All that means is that you’re expected to work late on a regular basis.

      1. Future Analyst*

        Yes! to this. Also, “on-site laundry/cafeteria/post office” means that you should expect to be at work allllll the time.

    5. Lily Rowan*

      In my field (nonprofit fundraising), I’m always afraid “entrepreneurial” means “no support from leadership.”

    6. Anon 12*

      Work hard play hard. That means act like a bunch of asses after working too many hours getting no more done than if you had approached things in an organized and efficient way. it’s also an excuse for drinking games paid for by the company.

    7. Aurion*

      Work hard, play hard. It always sounds like they’ll work you into the ground and then provide endless happy hours to “make up” for it.

    8. Leatherwings*

      Oh I remembered another: “Top Institution”
      If you have “graduated from a top institution” in your requirements or “work with people from top institutions” in your description, my alarm bells go off. It just seems so elitist and yucky.

      1. Chocolate Teapot*

        Urgh “Passionate”.

        A previous company tried to flog their values and one of them was performing passionately. Unless you are a musician or singer, I cannot see how you can perform passionately. This might be why it is now a previous company. (And it was nothing to do with performing arts!)

  79. Colorado CrazyCatLady*

    What do non-government background checks actually reveal?
    Have you ever had a job offer revoked because of something discovered in a background check?

    1. Leatherwings*

      My most recent background check included a 7 year criminal history check in every state I’ve lived in the past 7 years, employment and education verification (I submitted tax docs AND they called my employers and school)

    2. Anon 12*

      I’m in HR and we have revoked many job offers, mostly because the applicant lied about something in their educational, motor vehicle (for jobs that include driving) or criminal records. usually it’s more about the lying than the infraction but once in awhile something juicy pops up.

      1. Colorado CrazyCatLady*

        What about their employment record? Do you verify every job they’ve ever held, or only those that are listed on the resume? I’m not sure why, but it seems surprising that people would lie about something like their education!

        1. Anon 12*

          We don’t verify every position but we might call in to some for a back door reference and we verify ones that are particularly important or relevant to their experience. Lying about the education is the number one lie, and many times it’s about education not even required. I think people get in the habit of putting a degree down because they think it makes their resume stand out or something but it is shocking since it’s so easily verified and as I said, often not required. I have heard every excuse there is about why they listed a degree when there is no diploma……

          1. Colorado CrazyCatLady*

            Interesting. So a question for you, because I’ve always wondered if it’s misleading. I list my college education on my resume (it’s 3 years total) but do not list that I’ve obtained a degree. Is that something that would be flagged?

            1. Ask a Manager* Post author

              That’s a totally normally way to do it. You’d list it like this:

              Teapots College, 2010-2012

              If you had a degree, you’d list the actual degree and graduation date like this:

              Teapots College, B.A. in History, 2012

    3. Chaordic One*

      When I worked in HR we contracted with one firm that ran criminal background checks on all new American and Canadian hires and a second different one that ran driving records for most (but not all states) and Canadian provinces.

      Anyway, in a handful of cases the criminal background checks showed previous arrests and convictions. All of the cases I saw were for comparatively minor crimes that most people would dismiss as poor choices or youthful indiscretions. Cases I remember were for things like being arrested for possession of pot, underage drinking, getting in a fist fight and shoplifting. In each case, the person had already been hired and been on the job for anywhere from a couple of days to a couple of weeks when the results came in.

      If the employee had not mentioned the conviction (just being arrested didn’t count because the person might have been found innocent) they were summoned to the HR Director’s Office and she asked them about it. In every case I saw, no one was dismissed as the result of a conviction on a criminal background check. I do recall one case where a new hire told the Director that they had been convicted of a minor crime, but that they had supposedly had their criminal record expunged, but it still showed up, so that person filed a complaint with our background check company and as far as I know it was never resolved during the year or so I was there. We only ran criminal background checks once, when an employee was first hired.

      OTOH, the driving record was more serious and we had to go by standards set by the organization’s auto insurance company. The driving records were rerun at least once every year. The rules were pretty strict, no one under age 21. No moving violations for drivers under 25, no more than 1 moving violation for drivers 25 to 34, and no more than 2 moving violations for drivers 35 and over. People found guilty of DUI or involved a serious accident or found guilty of a serious moving violation were banned from our insurance policy for 7 years following the incident, and longer if they had any subsequent incidents.

      Fortunately, for most of our employees, driving was not an essential part of the job duties, but there were a handful of cases in which people lost their jobs (and/or job offers) when we could not allow them to drive for us because of a moving violation.

  80. Loose Seal*

    My husband got a new job!!! He will be teaching at a large university that is in my home state about two hours from my family (that part was a happy coincidence; we were just looking for a well-paying job at any large university). He starts in January and we are packing like mad (I have questions about that tomorrow in the other thread).

    Alison, your archives, and the commenters were life-savers during this search. The piece of advice that helped my husband most of all is the one where you say the job hunter should act like they are a colleague of the interviewers. In this case, since it was an academic job hunt, they are certainly already colleagues and it’s extremely likely that they’ve crossed paths before at conferences, etc. But remembering that helped him push past his reserve and talk to them like regular people every step of the way.

    Other academics, you may be interested in this: the university that he’s leaving is revoking everyone’s tenure ahead of making serious cuts to departments. They announced last February that everyone needed to work like they did when they were putting in their pre-tenure years. My husband came home and told me that and I said if he had to work essentially without tenure, we might as well do that in a part of the country we actually like. And so, he started sending out CVs. About four days after he turned in his notice, the revoked tenure email came out. His current colleagues keep asking him how he knew to start looking and he’s just saying that it was just luck. But I think a lot of people in his department will be cut so I’m glad we’re getting out.

    1. Jean*

      Yikes and y u c k re revoking tenure. Is anyone in a position to call the AAUP (American Association of University Professors)? They have a long history of listening to people in troubled departments and working to resolve the problems.

      1. DCGirl*

        If a university declares a state of “financial exigency” then it’s allowed to terminate tenured faculty members.

        1. Loose Seal*

          This. I don’t remember those exact words in the email I saw but that was the jist. They can either cut back some of the the most expensive thing — salaries and benefits — and hope to keep afloat or they are looking at shutting down the whole university in a few years.

          I hope they will rely on attrition first and see if that is enough of a savings. Enrollment likely won’t pick up, though. This fall semester, the state started making tuition at two-year state community colleges free to high school graduates from the state. On the one hand, I’m glad for that and if I had kids, I’d be super grateful for the chance for them to get their first two years of school free. But it really reduces enrollment at my husband’s tiny state university. The flagship state university here (on the other end of the state) doesn’t have that problem because, for some reason, people will pay all sorts of money to attend a school whose sports competitive.

          1. DCGirl*

            “Financial exigency” is the exact phrasing required by AAUP. There’s a very specific definition for what constitutes that state.

    2. H.C.*

      Sad to hear about the situation with your husband’s old U, but glad for you & him about the new job and move.

    4. TheCupcakeCounter*

      As a non-academic and former student I have to say that I strongly preferred my non-tenured professors. Many of my professors that were tenured just didn’t care much anymore. This was not across the board by any means as my absolute best professors ever were both tenured but it was pretty consistent that the professors I felt were least invested in our education and experience were always tenured. It was also more prevalent at my first university so maybe it was just that place and the program I was in.
      Outside of financial reasons could there have been a significant number of student complaints that would have triggered something like this?
      (For the record I have several academics in my family and understand tenure and why it is beneficial so not knocking the system just an observation of my personal experience).

      1. Sophia in the DMV (DC-MD-VA)*

        That may be in part bc teaching is only 1/3 of the responsibilities of tenured and tenure track faculty (and is not as heavily counted as research for those going up for tenure), while teaching is usually 100% of the job of non tenure/tenure track folks

  81. Scorpio*

    I had a verbal job offer at a small non-profit and it was rescinded after the organization had an unexpected change – I think someone left the org or their budget became more volatile. Of course they said they really wanted me, I was the full package, and they would be able to hire in July during their next budget cycle. That’s great but I need a job now. I’m devastated. I had already started collecting boxes for my move and was envisioning my resignation at my current position. Luckily, I was waiting on the written offer.

    Just hoping to vent and to tell everyone – no offer is final until you have it in writing!

  82. A. D. Kay*

    Somone in my office keeps sticking business cards advertising a virulent anti-choice organization on the bulletin board in our kitchenette. I’ve thrown them away twice now. Next time it happens, I’m taking a photo and sending it to my manager (she is in another location in a different area). This is at an enormous, multi-national tech company, too. Anybody have any other tips or suggestions?

    1. printrovert (formerly MacGirl)*

      Does your organization have a written policy regarding political activities? With your manager’s approval, I would see if that could somehow be posted on or near the board for everyone to see.

      1. A. D. Kay*

        I fantasized about doing that too, but I really don’t want to escalate. I’m a contractor, so I don’t know what the organization’s specific policies are. The bulletin board is for menus of local restaurants and flyers for local small business people–think bakers, flower arrangers, personal trainers. You know, NORMAL things.

      2. Not So NewReader*

        I don’t see why you couldn’t do that, except it becomes a paper war.

        I think talking it over with the boss is a good idea.

  83. Nancy*

    Is it a good idea to go to your boss and suggest you might be better suited for another section of the department. It would still be under their supervision. A position isn’t technically open, but they have the power to make these decisions. Here is why. I was put into the current position I’m in out of convenience, they didn’t say that, but it was very apparent. I’m glad they did, however, because it was more job security for me. I’ve learned a lot and I’m grateful (even though I’m self taught, no training). However, part of the job has opened my eyes to where I really feel my strengths are and where I would be better utilized. I currently feel like I’m letting down my boss in my position and not achieving, even though I’m putting in the effort. I’m feeling stuck, desperate, and burned out. There just isn’t a good job market in my area and trying to relocate is difficult because I own a home locally. I’m trying to find a way to help myself and my department. I’m pretty sure I know the answer, but I thought I would ask.

    1. Dawn*

      Sure you can! However, maybe frame it as “hey boss, I’m really feeling like my strengths at [company] are [these things], and I’d like to work towards [the ultimate goal of moving into a different section of the department] to better utilize those skills. I think I can work towards that by [thing], [thing], and [thing]. Do you think that’s a feasible goal for me to shoot for?” This way you’re not framing it as a “Dear Lord get me the heck outta this position!!!” but as a “For the Greater Good Of The Company, I feel my skill set would be better utilized over there instead of over here.” That always sounds better. And showing up with suggestions about how to go about doing that is also great, because then you’re not expecting your Boss to solve your problems for you, you’re being pro-active about moving in the direction you wanna go in.

      1. Nancy*

        Thank you for your answer. I think finding a way to frame it was the big issue. I don’t want them to think I’m not grateful or can’t perform my job. I just think I would fit better elsewhere and would provide more value to the company in that capacity.

    2. KarenT*

      I absolutely think you should talk to your boss. I wouldn’t frame it as being better suited though, that wording might not send the right message as it makes it more about dissatisfaction in your current role. But I would say that you’ve built a lot of skills in X, and have been spending more time working on X, and that you see a need for someone to be working on X full time. Explain why having a full time teapot analyst would benefit the department, and why you’d be the right person for X. And then ask if that’s a possibility or something that can be considered.

  84. Emac*

    I have a coworker who always uses “Thank you for your time and consideration” as her closing to emails (it must be part of her signature). She works in a different department, and I don’t really have much contact with her, but every time I see that, I cringe.

    I get the impression that she’s newer to the workforce, but I really don’t know her all that well in general. Do I say something to her?

    1. Leatherwings*

      I’d leave it alone. If I were her manager, I’d probably bring it up as an aside during a check-in as a bigger picture “office culture” thing. But ultimately, since you don’t really work with her or know her, I think it would be inappropriate to bring up. It’s definitely too formal and bit eye-roll worthy but it’s not rude or unprofessional either.

    2. Bob Barker*

      I knew a guy who has that, exactly the same words, at a previous workplace. So maybe it’s… Amway? Toastmasters? Illuminati? Miss Prim’s Most Excellent School For Email Manners? Maybe it’s a specific thing learned in some specific social context, that people outside that context never learned and find weird.

      I never said a peep to him, on the off chance that it might get me added to the list of people the Knights Templar will execute come the revolution. It’s no real harm, just weird.

      1. Loose Seal*

        I was taught in high school in my Business Ed course that you were always supposed to include that line in business letters, right before “sincerely.” So weird. I haven’t seen or heard that in decades but had a flashback just now.

        So I suspect this employee was taught that it’s proper business etiquette. Since you’re not in a position to really say anything, you could just make sure your emails model a more modern closing.

      2. catsAreCool*

        It’s not from Toastmasters, at least not a generalized Toastmasters thing. Maybe it’s Amway.

    4. Clever Name*

      One coworker signs his emails with “best regards”, which I roll my eyes at, especially since I’ve worked with him for a long time and know he can be kind of an ass sometimes. Another coworker, who I’m very fond of, signs his emails “cheers”. It’s so endearingly dorky.

    5. Sophie Winston*

      I’ve used something similar when I’m asking for a favor from someone with zero obligation to provide it. My wording is more likely to be, “I’d appreciate any assistance you are able to provide,” but it’s the same deferential tone. It’s over the top for every day emails with coworkers.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      I would not say anything because it’s really not a huge mistake. She is thanking people, which is good.
      You can role model the norm for your work place.
      If I have a long email I will say, “thanks for reading”. Some people like that.

  85. TR*

    I hope this isn’t considered too political, but I work at that agency that the president-elect wants to disband. I’ve only been there a year, so I’m pretty new to having the workings of the federal government directly influencing my livelihood. We were thinking about buying a house, but now are unsure about whether we should wait to see what happens. Does anyone have advice on dealing with this kind of uncertainty? Thanks!

    1. Anxa*

      I have no advice or experience on this, but I am going through something similar. My SOs postdoc is in environmental sciences so, obviously, we’re pretty pessimistic. I think we might be able to get away with having his job renewed (a 2 year job approved in 1 year increments) since it’s on grant money (not federal, but private) and he gets no fancy federal benefits, but many of the agencies he was looking into applying to after the fact will likely be either frozen, disbanded, or a complete shi–circus.

      We’re not anywhere new ready to buy a house (there will still be a lot of moving ahead if things go well for us), but it has pushed us toward perhaps taking parenthood off the table within the next 5 years. So it hasn’t been a great week.

      On the work-related side of things, we’re sort of frantically scrambling to re-position ourselves. I think this can be done in some fields more easily than others. If environmental/science agencies are slashed/frozen/disbanded AND regulations are loosened, there’s not really going to be a lot of growth in the local governments, academia, or private sector to compensate. But do you think your field would be better protected? Is there an industry path that you could take? What about state funding? Is an agency that they want to give more control to states, or one where you feel like they just want to eliminate as much work on that issue as possible?

      Perhaps people will be a little understanding of any layoffs or failure to find a job due to the very public nature of this. And if there’s a complete freeze you could literally be the best person for the job…like the very bestest best and it still wouldn’t matter. So maybe gaps won’t look so bad.

      That said, I was hit by a hiring freeze in 2010 in my state, and then that same state wouldn’t allow me keep my license because I didn’t find a job, because that state froze jobs. It was…exasperating. Maybe since this is at a national level there will be a greater level of understanding.

    2. Joshua Soccer*

      I think the best advice for buying a home is to make sure you’ve set aside a good chunk of money for emergencies other than the down payment, etc. Everyone I know, including my spouse and I have experienced some sort of unexpected expenses when buying a house, it could be maintenance like the A/C broke down or it could be aesthetics like you realize you can’t stand that tree outside. In your case you should make that emergency fund even larger since there is some risk in your job.

      I would argue though that you should wait until the inauguration happens and you know who your new agency director is. I work for my local state government and we’ll have governors run on platforms of “such and such is bad, let’s cut it,” but we don’t really know what that means until the new administration comes in. Sometimes you can get a feel of the future by seeing who the director the president chooses and what they say coming into the agency. My father’s agency got a director who announced day one that they are going to be cleaning house meaning bad news for jobs, but my agency got a director who was a little more sunshine and rainbows and we’ve been fine.

    3. One Handed Typist*

      The President does not have the authority to disband agencies. An agency such as the EPA may have been initially created by Executive Order, but it has established laws and statutory mandates that the President cannot dissolve. The oversight of the laws and mandates would be shifted to other agencies, or Congress would have to get involved. It is a long, drawn out process that certainly would take years to actually get to.

      If I were in your shoes, I may not jump into purchasing a home. The recommended personal emergency fund is 3-6 months of expenses, but I’d probably move that closer to 6-8 months just to be comfortable should things not work. You aren’t in a crisis, but there is a storm on the horizon that may or may not head your way. You need to wait and see. I’d also save separately for the house and make sure there is a bigger down payment available. 20% is standard to avoid that awful PMI, but you may want to consider closer to 30% to give yourself a better cushion. It will take longer, but in that time you will have a better idea on how the President-elect may pursue his threats.

    4. Loose Seal*

      If it’s the agency I’m thinking of (and it’s sad that there might be more than one possibility), I’m hoping that private donations will more than outweigh the Federal contribution.

    5. Natalie*

      If you’re looking at a long term career in public service, I would probably plan for some job instability throughout your career. Our current P-E aside, agency budgets do go up and down as political parties come in and out of power, so just generally, it would be wise to stay quite frugal. And if there’s every a shutdown again, you could be looking at weeks without a paycheck.

      So, pay down any consumer debt (credit cards, auto loans) as quickly as feasible, keep quite a bit in emergency savings, and when you are shopping for a home be very conservative with regards to the size of the mortgage.

    6. BRR*

      I would definitely wait and see before buying a house. I’d also keep a healthy emergency fund in case of government shut downs. I don’t expect those do decrease anytime soon.

    7. NicoleK*

      I work in the health insurance industry. So I can relate to the uncertainty. If you’re planning to buy a house, buy something that you can afford on one income or wait. I’m focusing on building my emergency fund cause who knows what will happen.

    8. Not So NewReader*

      Setting aside the exact job you have, a general rule of thumb is do not make any large purchases if your income stream looks iffy.

      What I would do is use some of my resources to make sure I had steady employment. This could be taking courses, job hunting, moving to another area for new employment. Or it could be just growing a nest egg so you do not get caught short.

      From personal experience any time my gut has said, “There might be a problem on the horizon”, my gut has saved me a lot of worry because I prepared for worst case scenario.

      So figure out what your idea of bad looks like and build a plan. IF nothing happens you will have an even larger nest egg to buy that house.

  86. Anon For This Rant*

    Using AAM’s ‘she’

    I do not like my office neighbor. I am a manager and my role is senior to hers, but I am not her manager. She never stop talking. I should keep time of how many hours a day she spends running her mouth all day long.

    I find it terribly difficult to engage in conversation with her at all – even about mundane topics. I know that is bad not just as a coworker but also because I’m pegged to move into an executive role sooner rather than later. But I swear she annoys my entire being.

    1. Girasol*

      I had one of those. Luckily I could find an unused cubicle away from her with different lighting, and claim that I needed to move for better light. Can you find an excuse to move?

      1. Anon For This Rant*

        I’m in an office and there aren’t any extras available, nor any good reason to have someone else move over here and I take their office :/

  87. Lia*

    So, we are at 50% of full staffing, and while we have positions posted to bring us back to full staffing, the applicants so far (and the posting close really soon) are not up to par. At best, we’d try and hire someone for roughly 1/2 of what they probably already make, or we get someone who has tech skills but nothing industry specific. At any rate, it’s moot because it will take us 3-4 months to finalize hires, then another 3-6 months to get people up to speed on our systems and get them access to everything they need (and this is the absolute best case scenario — searches can take upwards of 6 months here).

    So guess what boss decided to do? Implement DAILY PROJECT MANAGEMENT TRACKING. I spend roughly 2/3 of my time on crazy ad-hoc stuff as it is, and now I have to figure out how to categorize it, log it, and report on it, when almost all of these things are one-offs or responses to what I have dubbed “Senior Leadership Shower Thoughts”. Real example: senior leader “heard something on NPR on XYZ becoming a legal requirement in our state, can you research what the impact for us would be?” when it was NOT XYZ becoming a legal requirement, it was ABC, and an impact is irrelevant because ABC doesn’t impact us at all.

    Ugh.

    1. Chaordic One*

      Oh, dear.

      We tried this and it was a total fiasco. Most people just ignored it because it was giant time suck. The manager who introduced the program wasn’t there very long and when he left everyone forgot all about it. Terrible waste of money for the software package, though.

  88. Savannah*

    My Fiance and I are planning on taking a 3 week honeymoon to Morocco next year, around the holiday season since its the only time its quiet enough for us to pull this off. Being in the states, its not that common to be gone for 3 weeks at a time but I have 6 weeks of PTO every year and my Fiance is still part of a mad men-esque office space where he could take a month off for a honeymoon (but 1-2 hours for paternity leave, what fun!) without anyone batting an eye.
    I am slightly concerned however, that a co-worker of mine just negotiated a full month off for a vacation and then gave her notice the day she got back, and really burned a bridge with our supervisor who wasn’t happy with her long vacation to begin with. The norm in my office is usually 10 days-2 weeks for summer or winter vacations. I haven’t approached my supervisor with my honeymoon plans yet but I’d rather do it sooner than later. Should I wait for the dust to settle first? I don’t have any intention of moving jobs anytime soon.

    1. Leatherwings*

      So you’re planning on taking it a year from now (ish) right? I’d wait a bit for the dust to settle. Unless you work in an unusually strict office, I can’t imagine there being a difference between telling her 12 months before you leave or 11 months before you leave.

      1. Chocolate Teapot*

        Oddly enough, a colleague at work recently went on honeymoon for a month and promptly resigned when they returned.

        Since I had donated to the wedding gift collection, I only signed the leaving card.

    2. Mela*

      Maybe if you get a chance, drop a hint that you don’t think that behavior is very professional? Can you also talk to your boss about ways to grow in the company? Also, I wouldn’t worry too much because a vacation and a honeymoon are different. Both my husband and I got exceptions to the 2 week cap for ours.

  89. NK*

    Are paid job search sites worth the money? Some examples: velvet jobs, work in sports, LinkedIN premium, indeed premium. My husband has been job searching for months now, and is looking to intensify his search as his current job situation is getting worse. He’s wondering if a paid search site is a good use of money, or if it’s useless or a scam.

    1. Jean*

      Piggybacking on this to say I just became a 3-month member of what we’ll call JobListings4TeapotDecorators. Did I waste my money?
      Another job-search question: I have been an OK-but-not-brilliant admin assistant for years. My heart really wants to pursue copyediting, proofreading, or (dream!) full-on editing. Alas, jobs in this are fewer than the jobs for admins and my experience is good but thin and not super-recent. Does anyone have suggestions re
      – identifying organizations for whom I could volunteer my skills during (perhaps also beyond) my job search?
      – whether I should simultaneously beef up my admin skills in case I have to fall back on looking for another admin job?

    2. DevAssist*

      In my personal opinion, VelvetJobs is NOT worth it. I’ve never tried the paid version, but I would try to use the site and would get the job title and then the ad/block that said “sign up for a free account to learn more!” so I got the free account and received the same message telling me to upgrade to premium!

  90. straws*

    What’s the best way to professionally support an employee in a crappy personal situation? My employee recently had a relationship end. Not divorce, but very close. They were together longer than most married couples I know, lived together, have adopted pets together, etc. We had a brief discussion where she let me know the basics and said she’d prefer to work to keep her mind busy, and I made sure she knew she could take some time off if needed. I think this is working out well, but I’m curious about other opinions. And also, about other scenarios, like if she were (or becomes – this is recent) so distraught that she couldn’t work and ended up taking off significant time. How would you handle that?

    1. Honeybee*

      It sounds like you are the manager. Personally, if I were your employee, I would be grateful for what you’ve already done – you asked if I was okay, you asked about my work preferences and you let me know that I could take off some time if/when needed. I think that’s pretty much all I would want, aside from – if enough time passes – reassuring your employee that she really can still take off time if she needs to and being sympathetic if her work slows a bit or she seems distracted or out of it.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      We can’t really fix their personal lives. We can encourage them to get a plan, such as counseling or maybe they have a dear friend who is very supportive. I have redirected heavy involved conversations by asking if they have close relative or friend who helps them. Often times the person will light up and mention a name.

      Other than that, you can just be familiar with the company leave policies. You can be aware of how much unused PTO she has. I think knowing what your company can offer will help you to keep a perspective on how much is reasonable here.

      If she says she needs time off, then she needs time off. If you can’t get her paid time off, then sadly, that is the answer.

      On the good side, in this particular case, it sounds like she is telling you what you can do to keep her on track. Maybe you can toss an interesting project her way. Or if possible offer her a choice between two projects. It sounds like she is definitely interested in taking control of the situation and getting the best possible outcome.

    3. straws*

      Thank you both. I think I just needed some validation. I went through something very similar about 5 years ago, so I have a pretty good idea of how fragile the situation can be. I hate feeling biased, but alas – it’s part of being human!

  91. printrovert (formerly MacGirl)*

    I got a new job! It’s only part-time, so I am juggling two now. But it’s in academia and it pays a little more than my current gig. I start next week!

  92. Good_Intentions*

    Former co-workers checking out my LinkedIn profile

    About five months ago, I was let go from a job that was a very bad fit. The position was immediately restructured and renamed after I left, so everyone has moved on.

    I just completed a contract for an election-related position and am in the process of searching for my next job.

    However, I am finding that my former boss and colleagues repeatedly check my LinkedIn profile. I’ve actively avoided searching their profiles or otherwise engaging them, so I am curious as to their motivations and how to best prevent them from snooping.

    Should I block them? Should I send them an email stating that I would prefer they not look at my profile and maintain a professional distance?

    Please share your thoughts. Thanks!

    2. Leatherwings*

      Block them if necessary. Sending an email demanding that they stop looking at your profile is going to come across as exceedingly hostile, and that’s not a good look.

      Honestly, it sounds like they’re just a bit curious as to where you landed. If you don’t want to interact with them at all, feel free to block but otherwise I wouldn’t be particularly concerned about it.

      1. Good_Intentions*

        Leatherwings:

        Thanks for the advice.

        I have already blocked several people, and I feel so much better for the effort.

    3. NK*

      I know it makes you feel uneasy, but it’s going to come off as pretty unreasonable and strange if you ask them this. It’s not snooping when it’s a publicly-available profile. And they could just change the settings so that you can’t see them looking at your profile. I have my linkedIN set up that way because I don’t want to worry about people questioning why I’m looking at them, and I’m happy to give up the ability to see who’s looking at me for that anonymity.

    4. The Cosmic Avenger*

      How is it “snooping” if they’re looking at your public profile? Are they listed as connections? You could dis-connect, I suppose, and that might only scorch the bridge instead of burning it completely. But if you are sure you really will never need a referral or recommendation from them again, and it bothers you that much, just block them.

      1. Good_Intentions*

        The Cosmic Avenger:

        Well, considering I have fully removed the position from my resume and LinkedIn profile and don’t have any connections to these people, I don’t expect will ever need a reference or referral.

        I have also gone ahead and blocked my former boss, the HR person and the office gossip from viewing my profile.

    5. Beezus*

      I check former coworkers every once in a while (including a few who were laid off/let go). I am just curious to know where they landed, it’s mostly benign.

      1. Manders*

        Me too! Sometimes, if I liked the person and they got laid off, I check to see if they’ve got a new job because I’d consider offering to be a reference if they’re still looking.

        There is former job nemesis who I might have considered spite-checking, but I know she’s the type of person who’d lie on LinkedIn anyway.

    6. Lia*

      Are you connected to them? If so, and you’re active on LI, they may be getting alerts that you’re updating your profile, etc and then they click the link in the email alert and view your updates. They might also be following you on LI and getting alerts otherwise.

      Honestly, I would ignore it.

      1. Good_Intentions*

        Lia:

        Thanks for the ideas about how they may have noticed my profile.

        I am not connected to my former boss in any way on LinkedIn, but I have recently updated my profile to include more accomplishments from my current position.

        To ease my mind, I have blocked my former boss and a couple of other people. I already feel better.

    7. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

      I had a similar issue with coworkers from a toxic department. There was one coworker who, in the words of the only decent boss in that department was “Weirdly obsessed with Diluted_Tortoiseshell”.

      This coworker gave me hell and was huge pot stirrer frequently trying to get me in trouble. Since leaving he has tried to connect to me not once, not twice, but 5 times! Every time I get a promotion actually. I would block him but I actually find satisfaction in denying him the chance to attach his toxic ass to my rapidly rocketing career.

      8 D

  93. peanutbutter*

    I feel like the VP of the department is trying to find any reason to remove me from my projects. Earlier in the fall, three of our team leads left the company, and I volunteered to pick up the high profile projects. I knew this job was going to be tough, but I was excited to take on the work. So far, all of the team members have been really happy with me as a team lead, and were impressed that it felt like no change happened during the transition. But I can’t shake this feeling that the VP is looking for a reason to give the project to someone else.

    1. Sibley*

      Any way you can get feedback on your work? “Hey, I’ve been working on this, and I’d like to touch base with you if there’s anything you’re concerned about, like how it’s working, would like some tweaks”

      Are you sure it’s the VP? Could it just be in your head? I know I’ve done things where I was thinking it was a disaster, or they were going to replace me, but it was really just impostor syndrome stuff. Or, as Captain Awkward says, my jerk brain.

  94. Shayland*

    So, this is my second job. My first was a summer position that ended when I was terminated for being disabled.

    And working, especally working while also going to school has been… interesting. On one hand, the fact that this potion just fell into my lap, so to speech, really gave me the boost I needed in self confidence after being terminated so unexpectedly and so shortly after the position started.

    I’m good at the work, too. My boss and his second in command seem to be the type to be honest about this. And in my training they were both delighted by my attitude. My job is canvasing, so mood management is key. The fact that I joked at the end of the night and during breaks about different ridiculous reactions was a huge plus for them.

    I’ll be honest, there is very little that can get me worked up going door to door. A large number of people say no to me. Some respect my feelings (listening and then apologizing for not giving) and other’s respect my time (saying, ‘not interested’ and closing the door). I get my self hyped and I stay hyped.

    I have autism and I love being able to just talk and talk about one thing. I love having the same conversation over and over. And rapping lets me do that. It gives me a great social high.

    There are draw backs, however. I get very anxious with the suspense when I knock at a door. I sometimes find myself thinking, “Don’t anwser, don’t anwser, don’t anwser.” or even “kill me, kill me, kill me.” as I imagine some of my embarrassing mess ups. But if the door is answered then it’s right back into “Hello, my name is…”

    I feel more confident in myself and my social skills, doing this work. I also do feel some amount of satisfaction at a job well done, but I feel it’s less than what others would feel.

    I also feel like working as allowed me to be more productive. It takes up a lot of time and energy, yes, but the structure it gives me helps me feel less lost and confused during unstructured hours in my day. I’m able to do my homework and work on a handful of side projects without the same hiccups I used to deal with.

    However, especally going into next semester when I will have more classes, I don’t know if the time and energy suck is worth the trade off of being able to do other things better and faster.

    My boss is also super accepting of my service dog. I take him with me canvasing and it’s great for both of us. I didn’t have to fill out any paper work, I just showed up with the dog at my interview, we talked a bit about logistics, and if he said if that’s what I wanted then it was fine. Which, after my last job, is a huge plus.

    However, the other side of mood management is that the lows are really low and difficult to deal with. My numbers post election results were terrible, when everyone else’s took an up swing because of how many liberals wanted to be more involved. And my boss’s second in command, who I was working with both nights, gave really empty advice that made me feel like I couldn’t confide in him. And that I had to hide how I was feeling from him and my other coworkers as well as the doors.

    I was a wreck that night, especally when another coworker said something inadvertently ableist and I felt like I had no one to turn to. It really feels like the low moods are my fault. Especally when the advice I get boils down to, “Just be happy!”

    I often have wondered while at work and not at work if I should quit. I can’t of course imagine myself doing this forever. I do want to get a job in my field. However, I love the non profit and I have also had many moments where I was happy and excited to go to work and be working. I just don’t know how to balance these.

    Other ways it’s not quite right for me are the late nights. I’m much more of a morning person and we are often working until 10 pm. I have to wait with my co workers for a bus in a not so great part of the city this late. I mentioned last Friday how one of my co workers laughed at me while I was being harassed by a stranger at the bus stop.

    It’s also hard work that’s hard on my body, and I’m disabled. I was once told to do 10 push ups when I made a mistake in practice. I could only do 3, on my knees. And that left me so shaky that I almost fell over while canvasing. (My boss did say I could refuse if it was medical, but I felt pressured into it.)

    And I don’t like the particular culture. It’s very business casual. Our boss requests at least a weeks notice for any time off. And he’s chill if we get sick the last minute. (I had a medical emergency on the bus ride there, for instance.) And I know that the solution to one of my problems is to just talk to him about, “Hey, I have depression. So I’ll text you ahead of time. But sometimes I need to just show up and then head right back out home. I need to continue the schedule, but I just won’t be able to make the number’s and I’ll burn through turf.”

    Professionalism and work place culture is still very new to me. I’ve been using a lot of scripts on my professors to help with my disability accommodation, and it’s been wonderful. But my workplace is not like school and not like the white collar office environments I’ve been reading about.

    I’ve been working here for about three months now. And I don’t know what to think about it, any of it.

    1. Former Canvasser*

      Former canvass director here. Canvassing is hard work, kudos to you for doing it. It sounds like there are some pretty serious ups and downs here for you, and ultimately it’ll be up to you whether the ups are worth the downs over time.

      A couple of specific points:
      That “kill me, please don’t answer the door” thing happens for a lot (if not most) people, and while it does lessen over time, it often doesn’t ever completely go away. One thing that helped me was when I was knocking on the door, I’d write off the conversation in my head already and imagine the worst thing (for me it was the person being rude). Then it was nearly always a pleasant surprise for me when I was able to get through the rap.
      I’m sure your director has told you this, but this is mostly a mindset thing, which is frustrating to hear.

      Next, the mood thing is also true for most canvassers. It’s honestly true for most people, but for canvassers it’s particularly noticeable when you’re having an off day. “Just be happy” isn’t useful advice, but I suggest finding a way to compartmentalize what’s going wrong for you while you’re on turf.

      Finally, the biggest red flag of all to me is the push-ups thing. I would never ever ever have let anyone ask or imply that someone should do push ups in my office, and it’s not appropriate. You shouldn’t ever feel pressure to do something like that, and I’d immediately follow up with your boss about why. They seem relatively cool about adapting to your needs, and if you address it proactively then you have your best bet of fixing the issue.

      Seriously, that’s totally inappropriate and if I ever felt pressured to do push ups at my job, I’d quit immediately.

        1. Shayland*

          I honestly thought that silence it was such a casual environment that it was just… Okay?

          But good to know. I am definitely not a fan.

      2. Emilia Bedelia*

        I also used to be a canvasser, and I was literally about to say the same thing – imagine the worst thing that could possibly happen (I would envision very dramatic things like getting the cops called on me, getting literally punched in the face, owner has giant dog that eats me, etc… it was a little fun thing to do when walking around), and then when it doesn’t- well, it wasn’t that great, but at least it wasn’t the WORST thing!

        I had a friend, however, that would do the opposite- she’d psych herself up by thinking about how people were going to be so generous and kind, and that would inspire her to knock on the door. She was much, much better at canvassing than I was, so obviously YMMV, but I think the key really is finding your mental groove, so to speak.

        Honestly, canvassing is SO hard. It’s not just you, it’s a very very difficult job! Kudos to you just for going out there and doing it.

      3. Shayland*

        This is really helpful advice, thanks!

        I hadn’t really heard of canvassing before this interview, and I haven’t really run into other canvassers our in the wild. So it’s great to her about the job from others who aren’t my boss (or his second).

      4. catsAreCool*

        When you talked about pushups, for a second, I thought you were talking about something in a PE/gym class, then you mentioned your boss. Just no. No push ups at work.

    2. Moonsaults*

      No. NO. They cannot make you do push-ups, that’s unsafe and demeaning.

      You are doing a good job and they’re not treating you with the respect that you deserve. I believe they may be taking advantage of your disability, since you aren’t sure of professionalism and work place standards. Nobody in the work place gets to punish you by treating you like a disobedient child in gym class. What a vile disgusting person.

      There are very relaxed offices, I am from those and we get mouthy with one another and you hear a lot of curse words frequently enough. However you are still respected as an adult should be, mistakes are addressed so that they can be corrected and nothing more.

      1. Former Canvasser*

        OP, if they are targeting you in particular for the push ups, I’d file a complaint.

        Moonsaults, I totally agree that it’s unsafe and demeaning. Demeaning was the word I was looking for. From my read of it, they’re making everyone do push ups or other forms of “Punishment” when they mess up in practice. That doesn’t make it okay at all, it’s just my understanding.

  95. leslie knope*

    i received an email this morning from an HR email at one othe places i applied inviting me to a “one-way video interview” (no thanks). then like 40 minutes later i received another email reminding me to sign up for it. then 10 minutes later ANOTHER email, this time from an actual person, reminding me to sign up for the interview. i think i’m gonna pass…

    1. Camellia*

      One-way? Does that mean they can see you but you can’t see them? Sounds like you have the right idea to pass on it.

      1. Lemon Zinger*

        WOW. I would leave a Glassdoor review to let people know how asinine this interview process is.

  96. Aaargh*

    I had a rough week at work, so…anyone want to commiserate and share (hopefully funny, at this point) work mistakes?

    I’ll start with mine from yesterday: I was using a new system to set up an email campaign and part of my process is to upload whatever list I’m using. What I didn’t know about this system was that the button for “Upload List” had a tacit “AND ALSO SEND EMAIL RIGHT NOW!” function, so…when I uploaded the list, that also sent the email immediately to the 400 people on the list.

    Thankfully, the email was branded with our logo, and because I set up the list correctly, all of the personalized fields worked. But it was still a largely generic email and NOT the experience we intended.

    Yeah…I’m definitely going to yell at the product team for that platform and tell them that they really need to add a disclaimer (like, oh, every other email system I’ve ever used!) whenever there’s a chance that an email will send immediately upon clicking a button. Serves me right for trying to get ahead on uploading the list, I guess.

    1. Loose Seal*

      Oh I hate that! Why is it that no matter what the software, there’s more “Are you sure?” clickboxes for the most benign actions and absolutely no fail-safe for the most destructive?

      1. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

        Or worse, when the vendor takes away that “Are you sure” fail safe and doesn’t tell anyone.

        NO! I did not in fact want to post $500,000 in transactions. I was showing someone how to do this thing and expected to be able to click “No” at this step like every other damn time I’ve clicked the button you A-Hole vendor!

        Wow I did not realize how much rage is still there a half year later.

        1. Aaargh*

          Oh my god. See, I can kind of understand the reasoning for my thing, because it sounds like a disclaimer wasn’t there to begin with. But to take it away when it was there before? Yeah, I would definitely still be mad at that.

  97. Ah Boo*

    Had a discussion with my boss this week and found out HR seems to be pinning my promotion/raise potential to previous salary info. As I was hired in for a position about 3 levels below where I am right now, this sucks.

    Boo. Still in the process of arguing, but a bit annoying. Tripling the complexity of the work and asking for compensation to reflect that shouldn’t trigger conversations about “we gave you X raise 4-5 years ago”.

  98. Tim*

    How do people job search while they have a job? I’m currently in my first job out of college and looking elsewhere, but it’s difficult because I’m just…not really available to be interviewed most of the time. I have an interview next week but it’s while I’d normally be working, and it’s unlikely I’ll be able to get those hours off. (Personal days/day at a time vacation are never approved at my company because we’re a revolving door and always understaffed, one of the reasons I’m looking for a new job). We’re also not really allowed to take sick days (one of the other reasons I’m looking).

    The interview is for something that’s a long-shot that I’m not sure I want with this timing (I’m meaning to start seriously searching after the holidays, and only applied to this in a fit of rage at my job and not expecting to get an interview.) I’m kinda considering backing out because I just don’t know how to make this work.

    1. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

      I usually set up first interviews/phonescreens for during lunch.

      Just explain to hiring folks your lack of flexibility in the role and ask for weekend and/or lunch and/or after hour interview slots. Just know that if you are not a stellar candidate the answer may be no.

      1. Confused Teapot Maker*

        +1 I think most people with even the slightest bit of recruitment experience know that people who are currently employed might struggle to get time off for an interview so it’s hardly like they’ll be aghast at your request if you’re polite about it.

        That being said, you equally have to be prepared for them to turn around and say “Sorry that’s the only slot we’ve got”.

    2. Moonsaults*

      It will depend on what you’re interviewing for. Most places who know you’re currently employed, do understand your time restrictions.

      What happens if you take a sick day? I know you say “you’re not allowed to” and I’ve been in a similar boat but in the end, what happens if you do call in is that you get lectured like a child and made to feel like an inconvenience. Or do they fire you?

      I’d look into your employment laws in your state and see if they fire you for calling in that it’s an offense that would cost you your eligibility for unemployment. Many places, if you’re fired for attendance issues, they’re going to be okay with your claim as long as it’s not shown that it’s an unreasonable amount of time off.

      In these situations you have to look at the drastic point of view. You cannot stay there for much longer because it’s a health concern for you at this rate.

      1. Lily Rowan*

        Yeah, I’m also curious what “can’t take a sick day” means — they come to your house if you call and say you’re sick and won’t be in?

        Can you have a doctor’s appointment or is that also off the table?

  99. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

    #1 Co-irker pet peeve. CC’ing their and/or your boss on the first request.

    What is your #1 Co-irker pet peeve?

    1. ThisIsNotWhoYouThinkItIs*

      Hahaha. The “urgent” marker on emails when it’s not urgent.

      Close runner up #2: Being assigned to things and finding out from the meeting notes… :\

    3. neverjaunty*

      Reading the first sentence of my email and then asking a bunch of dumb questions that could have been answered by reading THE NEXT SENTENCE.

      2. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

        Or the related.

        Email: X isn’t possible to achieve, but I can do Y.

        Response: That’s fine as long as it is X.

        ??????????!!!!????

      3. deets*

        Do you work with my boss? I don’t think he has ever read an entire email in his life. (and yes, he is busy, but we then waste a lot of time on back-and-forth that could be resolved if he just read more than one sentence…)

    4. Hey Annonie*

      How most of their time in the workplace is taken up by loud conversations, complete with the most annoying and obnoxious laughter I’ve ever hear and curse words said loudly enough that they can be heard in our lobby by clients.

      1. catsAreCool*

        I hate that! Give me a few minutes to stop the work I am doing and look over the e-mail and maybe think about it a bit.

    6. MWKate*

      At this moment – chewing ice in your cubicle, from what sounds like has to be some kind of bucket from all the cascading ice sounds every 90 seconds.

    8. zora*

      It’s hard to rank mine, since I have so many ;o) but my current #1 is probably:

      taking 100 more sentences to say something than is necessary, basically repeating the same sentence multiple times in slightly different wording, for example, in weekly meetings, or sending an email with a very simple request written out and then insisting we need a phone call to “talk through it” which basically means reading the email to me out loud 3 times to ‘make sure it’s clear’. OMG, I get it, just stop talking, please!

    9. Rob Lowe can't read*

      Never, ever reading any emails, while simultaneously never, ever remembering anything that I say in person. My only consolation is that this is not personal. She doesn’t read anyone else’s emails or remember what anyone else says, either.

      1. neverjaunty*

        Ooo, do you get the bonus thing of whenever you remind Boss “yes, we talked about that last Tuesday” or re-forward an email that she gets all pissy at you?

    10. catsAreCool*

      Worst pet peeve for me, and it has only happened rarely, someone being rude/mean when someone else either has a question or is trying to be helpful.

      Minor pet peeve (but it happens a lot) – people who take a while to get to the point in IM. Just ask the question already! Plenty of people I think well of do this, but it grates on my nerves. I don’t need small talk on IM, and I don’t like to keep bouncing back and forth between my work and trying to help someone on IM when I’m basically waiting for the person on IM to get to the point.

    11. Honeybee*

      Coming by my office when my door is closed, knocking on the glass, and then trying to talk to me for 20 minutes about some personal life stuff. My office door is rarely closed, so when it is it’s closed for a reason!

    12. Drew*

      Talking about all manner of irrelevant crap in our open office.

      Bonus: Getting annoyed when I ask them to take their irrelevant conversations to the meeting room right next to us or to the break room down the hall.

      Extra bonus: When it’s the team on the other side of the office being so loud that I can hear them from my desk.

  100. Jules the First*

    So I resigned three weeks ago, and got a counter offer, and agonised for ages over whether I was doing the right thing…and all week this week has been like my current employer was actively trying to show me how right I was to turn down their counter-offer…

    On Monday, someone new started – whose job would have been fairly entwined with mine (think I’m head of teapot customer relations and she’s head of teapot customer satisfaction) if I’d taken the counter-offer…except that no one mentioned her existence during any of our conversations.

    On Tuesday, I had to explain a fairly fundamental process to one of my senior peers…for like the 11th time.

    On Wednesday, I said I had to leave at 6pm sharp to make an important event, and a line formed at my desk at 5:58, keeping me hard at work until 6.30!

    On Thursday, my grandboss made some profoundly stupid remarks at an industry event (if you picture him saying that poor people are gross and need to be kept out of sight of rich people, you would not be far off), thus making it even harder for us to be taken seriously by some of the biggest potential clients he’d like me to hook us up with.

    And then today my boss has emailed me about some charts which he (in passing in January of 2015) suggested would be cool to have, but has not mentioned since – to say that he’d like me to present them to the management meeting on Friday next week. These would be charts that currently exist only in his head, but which he is convinced I have seen and been working on/hiding for the last two years.

    So glad I’m leaving…

  101. missj928*

    Our research and development intern is one of the most unnecessarily loud people when it comes to her actions. She is constantly crunching on her snacks ALL DAY LONG. The scrolling thing on the mouse? So. Loud. ALL DAY. Her chair? It’s constantly creaking because she moves and spins in it. I’m getting so sick of it. It’s hard for me to focus and I am afraid that I’ll look like an asshole if I tell her to be quiet in her actions.

      1. Ultraviolet*

        I disagree with the BEC part–it’s reasonable to be annoyed when someone’s being very noisy! I’ve been there. Well, I am there. I ended up using headphones, partly because I didn’t want to be a jerk and partly to signal that I’m not receptive to interrupting my work to chat nearly as often as my loud officemate. I’m still not used to it and my productivity’s gone down, but I’m hoping I’ll build up some tolerance and find the right kind of music to work by.

        1. Drew*

          I love classical music but the dynamic range is too broad to be effective at sound-masking.

          I love audiobooks and podcasts, but they distract me from what I’m trying to do, especially if it involves writing.

          I usually go with classic rock that I know well enough that I don’t try to listen to the words.

  102. Crazy Canuck*

    So today our office is closed. Last weekend, our safety officer (who I shall call Tyrion) threw a party to celebrate his divorce finally being made official. I was there for a bit, but I left early when the cocaine showed up, despite some pleading from Tyrion. I found out the next day that some of that cocaine was cut with fentanyl, and as a result Tyrion had overdosed and died. He was 33 years old, and left behind a six year old daughter.

    So now I’m sitting in an uncomfortable suit, wondering WTF I am going to say to the family at the funeral today. I’ve been in a mental fog all week trying to wrap my head around this, and I just can’t. If I had stayed, would he be alive? Or is it if I had stayed, would I be dead? How petty am I for being sad for losing my best friend in the office, when a six year old lost her daddy? Since the local authorities aren’t/can’t doing anything to punish the dealer who sold Tyrion the product that killed him, is it moral or right for me to do something? So many questions, so few answers.

    I know this is pretty heavy for an employment advice blog, and I’m sorry for that. I just wanted to share this both to clear my own head and as a warning about taking people for granted. Things can change so fast.

    3. Manders*

      Oh my god, that’s horrifying!

      I don’t think sadness about losing someone you like is ever petty. You sound like a thoughtful person who knows better than to dump those feelings on a grieving family. And even though I know the what-ifs will bother you, ultimately you aren’t responsible for his death, and as a matter of fact it sounds like you made the right call by leaving that situation.

      Does your company have an EAP? Are they offering any special grief counseling to deal with this event? Maybe it’s time to look into a therapist, not because you did anything wrong, but because it’s normal to feel weird and sad and even a little guilty sometimes after a tragic death.

    5. Isben Takes Tea*

      Wow, that is so hard. You don’t have to feel bad for your own grief because someone else may be grieving more or differently–grief is not a zero-sum game! It’s not petty–it’s the reality of being a human being. What you say is “I’m so sorry,” because it’s the truth.

      You have no share of blame, and in cases like these, “blame” starts becoming a very tricky thing to deal with. As for taking matters in your own hands, I can only recommend against it. Vengence–the desire to make someone pay because you’re suffering–just perpetuates the hurt.

    6. neverjaunty*

      I am so sorry that you are going through this.

      All you need to say to the family is that you are sorry for their loss and that Tyrion would be missed. That’s why those formulaic assurances exist – you don’t have to be creative or tell them everything.

    8. Moonsaults*

      It’s important for you to get these feelings out, even if it’s just putting them out there on a forum.

      Death is incredibly difficult to handle and everyone processes it differently, especially since circumstances always vary with each one we deal with over the course of life. Your feelings are valid and important to process, this is why we go through cycles. I hope that you have someone close to you to help you through the mourning of your friend.

    10. Crazy Canuck*

      Thank you to everyone for the condolences, it is very appreciated. Extra special thanks to neverjaunty, who told me exactly what I needed to hear right now. It seems so obvious, but that was the exact script I needed, so thank you so very much.

    11. NaoNao*

      I actually had a coworker from a pervious job die in very similar circumstances, and a few of us had loaned him money, not knowing what it was going to purchase. We all felt terrible guilt and remorse as well as confusion/anger at an unfocused “someone”–the dealer, the person who had been partying with him and left the scene when it went bad (during the OD) and the vague forces that led to the addiction in the first place.
      It is so sad and hard.
      It’s okay to be upset, it doesn’t take away from other people’s grief or minimize it.
      It will just take time. I’m so sorry for your loss.

    13. Anono-me*

      I am so sorry for the loss of your friend.

      It maybe nice to include a small story about him that is both flattering and typical of who he was as a person in the sympathy card. She won’t have as many memories of her father as anyone would like and this will give her one more good one.

      As far as something to be done:

      Don’t be sure that the police can’t do anything to prosecute the dealer; sometimes ongoing investigations are not public knowledge. A drug dealer in a nearby city just was convicted for 2 deaths in not to dissimilar circumstances.

      If your community does not have laws against this type of wrong doing. Maybe in honor of your friend you could push for a change in the law. Possibly send a batch of sensibly worded letters to the appropriate local politicians.

      1. Artemesia*

        This is such a good idea. That child will have but dim memories of her Dad when she grows up. Having a couple of anecdotes about how smart, or kind or funny he was may be something that is kept and treasured.

    14. AnonAcademic*

      How incredibly sad. I feel way less square about my lingering discomfort with casual cocaine use after reading this. If nothing else, your post just convinced one stranger (me) to never try it and keep a careful eye on anyone I know is partying. Maybe in his memory you could raise awareness of these kinds of drug interactions? I also didn’t know until recently that benzodiazepenes like xanax magnify the effects of alcohol and can lead to death when combined.

    15. Jean*

      How terribly sad for everyone involved: your friend, you, his daughter.
      Were you close enough friends with your late coworker that you can stay in touch with his daughter? Or any of his adult relatives?
      Anon-ome has good suggestions re writing a happy memory for his daughter and starting some community activism. Maybe instead of, or in addition to, seeking legislation to punish the drug dealers you would want to ensure that first responders carry the proper antidote for an overdose? or seek passage of a law that allows people to report a potential overdose without fear of retribution? I’m not trying to excuse the dealers; just trying to find ways to rescue people who overdose.
      For completely different reasons I really hear you about not taking people for granted. Things can indeed change very quickly.
      Sorry this is so rambling.

    16. catsAreCool*

      When you talk to the family, tell them you’re sorry for their loss. Maybe say some good things about your friend. If you can and feel up to it, offer to help them in some way. If you’re close to the family, you may want to try to do something for them (maybe bring food or offer to help with chores or something, especially a few weeks from now when offers of help will tend to dwindle.

      I’m sorry this happened, and it has to be a huge and painful shock. It’s OK for you to grieve.

    17. Sophie Winston*

      Another vote for sending a card to the daughter with a nice story about your friend. If he ever gave you any career or life advice, or you saw him give that advice to others, those memories would be very appropriate to share, as would talking about times her dad talked about her showing she was important in his life.

      And there’s no rush. You could send a note with a holiday card in a month, or on the anniversary of his death or his birthday or her birthday next year. In fact, it may be more appreciated later, letting her know that others are still missing her father as well, that he is not forgotten.

      I’m sorry for your loss.

    18. Honeybee*

      It’s not petty to be sad! He was a friend to you. Your sadness doesn’t diminish his daughter’s sadness or anyone else in his family’s sadness.

      I’m so sorry for your loss.

    19. Drew*

      This is an awful story. Of course, you’re allowed to grieve the loss of your friend, and you don’t have to measure your grief against anyone else’s; your relationship with Tyrion was different than theirs, so it’s only reasonable that your feelings wouldn’t be the same.

  103. NicoleK*

    Happy Friday. I’m looking for resources on process improvement. Books, blogs, videos, and etc. Thanks!

    1. vpc*

      So I’m mostly familiar with resources specific to my field that won’t help a lot unless you’re in public health, but you might try books by…
      Bernard Marr
      Robert Kaplan and David Norton

      If you are in public health, I can give you pages and pages of links.

  104. Blue*

    I am so not in the mood to work today. 90% of the staff has taken off early for the holiday and the other 10% are taking “long” lunches. Normally, the phone would be ringing off the hook but not today because I’m stuck here. My sister was diagnosed with cancer late last year and had surgery early this year and is now cancer free (Thank God!). I had to take a huge chunk of my PTO to help out with her son, staying with her during surgery/recovery, doctor appointments, etc. and then I got sick for a week after that so I’m almost zeroed out. I’m trying to save my last couple of day for after Christmas but I don’t know if I’m going to make it. I’m stuck here feeling sorry for myself but thanking God my sister is ok. I suck. :(

    1. not really a lurker anymore*

      You don’t suck. I’ve always thought the hardest stretch of work is the time between Labor Day and Thanksgiving with regards to days off.

      You’re there, holding down the fort. That’s good. And there’s no one around to annoy you. That’s another good thing.

  105. Yoshi*

    I graduated from a terminal master’s program in May, and I’m still looking for work. One of my challenges is that I worked for six years prior to the program, and so I’m trying to re-enter the workforce at more of a mid level rather than the entry level of my classmates. How long I can be unemployed and job hunting before it starts to look bad to employers?

  106. Office Mercenary*

    If you don’t work in a technical position, how do you develop experience with technical skills? I’d love to transition to more technical jobs, so I’m trying to learn SQL and QGIS, and I’m relying on self study at the moment with textbooks and online tutorials. However, I don’t know whether to put it on my resume or not, since I’ve never used them in a professional setting. A lot of the jobs that look the most interesting to me require several years’ experience using these tools on a daily basis, or even a degree in statistics.

    1. not really a lurker anymore*

      Look into certifications and ways to prove that you have the basics. My husband is in a similar situation and that’s what he’s working on, making sure he understands the programs, can prove that and tries to tie it into the things he done at work with his current skill set. His small company doesn’t use several of the programs/language that he sees asked for by other companies.

    2. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

      I have found success in promoting solutions that use SQL or what have you in my current environment and then getting assigned to those.

    3. nonymous*

      I know for some areas of programming, it’s possible to create a portfolio by posting small projects on places like GitHub.

      Also, there are tons of volunteer opportunities that are looking for this type of skill set. I had a chance to practice my data-handling skills with my mom’s HOA once I realized how much trouble people had parsing the budget.

  107. Come On Eileen*

    We are having a holiday gift exchange on my team in early December — $20 limit. The idea is that the gift could be appropriate for anyone on the team (Yankee or Pirate swap, I think it’s called? Like a white elephant but with nice gifts, not gifts you don’t want).

    What would you like to receive if you were participating? Last year the gift I gave was 2 movie passes and some movie candy. The gift I received was note cards and a candle.

    I’d like to bring an actual gift rather than a gift card if I can help it – it’s fun to pick something out. But I’d like to be thoughtful about it.

    1. Lily Rowan*

      I would love movie passes! And would be less excited about a physical gift that you don’t use up. So in my book, note cards, candle, candy = all great. For my office, I might do a fancy foodstuff (like a nice olive oil), because I know people cook.

    2. ThisIsNotWhoYouThinkItIs*

      What sort of office do you have? A lot of jokesters? People just starting out? Lots of families?

      1. Come On Eileen*

        It’s a team of about 20 people. Marketing, so 95% women, good mix of younger single millenials and others in 30s, 40s with families. We’re in Northern California if it helps.

    3. NarrowDoorways*

      My office does $15 dollars and everyone falls back on coffee gift cards and booze. Nether of which I drink!

      I’ve brought gourmet chocolate in the past but it clearly wasn’t wanted, so I took it home myself.

    4. T3k*

      I like the movie pass/food idea! Other things I’ve seen: coloring books for adults, a small food basket, and hot chocolate set. I’d also say books, but that tends to depend on the person who’s receiving it. You can’t go wrong with gift cards as it allows the person to pick something they want instead of having to figure out a way to get rid of a gift they otherwise don’t like (like I find candles pretty but ultimately useless as I have so many already).

    5. E*

      Some of last year’s favorites at my office included lottery tickets or a coffee sampler with holiday flavors.

    6. Sibley*

      My office does something similar. Things I remember, but some of this is inside-joke type things:

      -all types of wine, beer, spirits, etc (most prelevant)
      -small crock pot
      -waffle maker
      -gift cards
      -wacky socks
      -fancy hot chocolate mix set
      -fancy chocolate
      -movie passes
      -fancy coffee

    7. Loose Seal*

      I always bring a gift card for a conveniently located grocery store for the amount we are supposed to spend. It is always the most fought-over gift in the exchange, which reinforces my theory that no one really wants a $20 gift that someone who barely knows them brings. Plus, everyone needs groceries.

      Other well-liked items I’ve seen: scratch-off lottery tickets for the stated amount and large mixed bags of candy.

      I do think your movie tickets and candy gift is a great one. You can do that every year and let it be your “thing.” People will start to look forward to it.

    8. nonymous*

      Generally, in this situation, I like to give gifts that are easily re-gifted. So even if the object doesn’t make sense for *me*, it does save me from shopping for OtherAcqaintence.

    9. vpc*

      The best “cheap, unisex” gift exchange item I ever got was a picture frame. Chunky metal, sized for a 5×7, you know, the kind you pick up at target for $10. I think it got stolen three times.

  108. Sally Sparrow*

    My supervisor hasn’t been giving me work or telling anyone that I don’t have work. This has been going on for months and I’ve kept my supervisor informed each time. On the advice of another CW (same level as supervisor, and used to be my supervisor until recently), I talked to our VP. My lack of work was brand new information. We discussed things I could start doing and it seemed things would get better.

    Except my supervisor has no idea about these new things and there has been no implementation on these new things from the VP or the other people to whom I would be getting some of this work from.

    At this point, I don’t know how to move forward.

    1. Sadsack*

      Did the VP say he would advise your manager of the work he’d be sending your way? Maybe you should ask the VP what the timeline is for these new projects and ask if he plans on updating your boss or if you should do it.

  109. Why so Shy*

    I had my annual review today and it went okay. Basically they said that the quality of my work is excellent, but they’d like me to be less shy and more assertive. The feedback is appropriate, but the thing is I’m not a shy person anywhere else in life, only at work. All of my friends and family would describe me as strong and assertive and I don’t know why I can’t bring the attitude I’ve had my whole life into a work environment. I’ve been assigned as project manager to a few big projects, so I know my boss sees the potential for me to lead, I just need to prove I can do it. Does anyone have any advice advice on how to do this?

    1. Leatherwings*

      Hey, I’m the same way. I have social anxiety so while I have a strong personality at home and with friends I often get timid and quiet at work.
      My biggest suggestion is to get to know people one on one. Maybe set up quick meetings or go to coffee with some people on the project you’re assigned? Talk to them about their goals for the project and what they need from you/vice versa. Then set follow up conversations to talk to them about how it’s going. You’ll build up a rapport with people one on one, which I think will make you more confident and you’ll naturally have the space to take the lead on projects.

  110. Ryan*

    How many times is it kosher to negotiate? Company offer X. I countered with Y, which is a little more than what I’m fine with (Z). Expecting a call from Company with XZ – as in closer to Z but still less than what I want. Would my appropriate response be – I appreciate it, but I need at least Z? Or should that be YZ (little more than Z)? Is this back-and-forth kosher, or is what they’re coming back with usually considered the final one they can do?

    Please help, as I’m expecting a call within an hour!

    1. The Cosmic Avenger*

      I would say your next step is to say something like “I appreciate your flexibility, but I really can’t accept this position for less than Z.”, and be prepared to walk away.

    2. AMPG*

      In my experience, a company giving you their “best and final offer” will flag it as such. So you can come back with another counter at this point.

    3. Kimberlee, Esq*

      Yeah, if Z is really your bottom line, tell them that, but be aware that that means it just might not work. I feel like you’ve done enough steps that whatever you offer next probably needs to be your final offer. Unless your in a field where extensive negotiation is common? It just always leaves a bad taste in my mouth to go back and forth that much… at some point, someone is just nickel-and-diming the other person.

      1. Ryan*

        But you are all saying that it’s OK for me to counter one last time to what they are saying right now, unless they say explicitly that it is their final offer, correct?

        1. H.C.*

          Yes, along with reiterating all the reasons you feel Z (or higher than Z) is fair: your qualifications/skills, industry standard based on experience/geography, your accomplishments in your current/previous positions, etc. Since it’s a phone call, I’d outline those reasons down in a list so you can be prepared to go over them as needed.

          Good luck!

  111. copy run start*

    Today we learned our boss is leaving the company. Grand boss does not have a positive reputation from what I have heard, but those opinions come from people with less-than-stellar performance. All the same, the mood is depressive as our boss was well liked. Just reminding myself that I have been through a far worse management shakeup and I will get through this too.

  112. katamia*

    It looks like I’m going to have to go back to education/teaching, at least for the next few years (not sure if the no-politics rule is still in effect, but it has to do with that). I’m really down about this. I know my subject matter really well and have always had a good rapport with my students, but lesson planning was always the bane of my existence (I hate it and am pretty bad at it–I can never seem to actually execute any of my lesson plans as written and always get derailed, even though my students do improve in my subject), and no matter how hard I tried not to, I always resented all the unpaid hours I had to put in to plan and grade. I have no passion for teaching and often get frustrated when I have to explain things multiple times or when I get the same questions over and over again.

    In short, I’m just not well suited for it, and while I know this is the best thing for now, I’m really dreading the switch. Anyone have any advice on what I can do to make the experience less awful, either specifically for teaching or just generally with regard to going back to jobs that previous experience has made very clear that you’re not great at and that you never really enjoyed?

    1. nonymous*

      wine!

      Seriously, it’s fine if lesson plans get derailed (as long as the essential stuff gets met) – if the derailing is b/c students ask questions, that means you’re awesome and have engaged them!

      Also, there’s nothing wrong with selecting homework assignments that reduce your grading workload. Just make sure if you do group projects, rotate the group membership. I personally had good success with making an early-stage assignment be of the divide-and-conquer research variety, so that I can have something to penalize the slackers on. It also helps teach students how to break down the activity.

      Also, despite all the union speak about “contact hours” it’s really much easier to think of self as a salaried employee. This is the big difference I see between K-12 vs higher ed, where both groups put in tons of hours on evenings/weekends.

      1. katamia*

        It’s more that I resent having spent/wasted all that time planning when I could have been doing pretty much anything else outside of work hours. I’m not a planner by nature, and I tend to chafe when things are too heavily planned out, so on the one hand, I’m kind of doing it to myself, but on the other hand, if I had my druthers I wouldn’t waste all this time planning either. If I could just show up and teach without planning it out first, that would eliminate probably 80% of my dissatisfaction right off the bat.

        I’ve always taught through nonprofits and private companies rather than school districts, so I can’t imagine any of my students actually doing the homework I wasted so much time preparing but was required to assign anyway, lol. *sigh*

        1. Honeybee*

          Is there a reason why you have to do all of the lesson planning? Like does your immediate supervisor expect/require it from you or something? If you end up getting derailed anyway and you know your subject matter well enough to redirect successfully, I’m wondering if you can’t design skeleton lessons – the outline of what you want to cover and teach without explicit details, so that they give you the freedom to go where you want to go and adjust on the fly while still giving you some guidance.

    2. LizB*

      A few things to consider:

      – How detailed are your lesson plans required to be? Can you make them pretty bare-bones and use your rapport and knowledge to fill in the gaps?

      – If your plans have to be detailed, can you reuse any plans from previous years? If you can’t reuse plans wholesale, can you reuse particular activities or assignments and copy/paste them into this year’s plans? Can you make a template that includes details for all recurring activities, and only add the few things that change from class to class?

      – If the answer to all of the above questions is no, what usually goes off the rails with your lesson plans? It’s really, really normal to deviate from a lesson plan — many of the best teachers know how to read the room and do what their students actually need, rather than sticking strictly to what they thought would work when they were sitting on their couch the weekend before. But if you’re seeing a particular pattern (e.g. a certain type of activity always takes forever, another type goes down like a lead balloon, etc.), try and build your plans to accommodate that pattern if you can.

      – Use any pre-made resources that come with your curriculum as much as you can, or look for things on Teachers Pay Teachers, Pinterest, or other websites that will fit what you need. Whatever you’re teaching, it’s a safe bet that someone out there has already made a worksheet about it. Use what’s out there already instead of killing yourself making all your own materials.

      – If you have co-workers you look up to at your workplace who always seem to have their act together, don’t be afraid to ask them to sit down with you and help you figure out what’s going wonky with your plans. Mentors and peers are invaluable resources in this field.

      – For explaining things multiple times or answering the same questions: put it back on your students. My rule is “Three Before Me” — students must ask three of their peers their question before they come ask me about it.

      – If most of your re-explaining is about instructions for activities, change up how you give instructions. I don’t take questions until I’ve finished giving instructions, and at the end of instructions, I say “Does anyone not know what to do?” instead of “Does anyone have any questions?” — it keeps kids focused on whether they actually understand the instructions, rather than letting their minds wander into hypotheticals.

      – If the re-explaining is about content, you can still implement the “Three Before Me” rule, but you may also want to change up how you do your direct instruction. I like an “I do, We do, You do” model — I do an example problem, explaining my reasoning as I go, then I walk the class through an example problem with volunteers giving me answers and explaining the steps, then I finally turn the class loose to do their own work.

      – As for resenting the unpaid hours… I’m with you there, honestly. It totally sucks. All I can say is work smarter, not harder – reuse plans from last year or copy/paste language for recurring activities, give assignments that will be minimally difficult to grade or that have peer review or self-assessment built in, use worksheets from the internet whenever possible, get together with buddies to do your grading and planning if that helps you hate it less, and make sure to intentionally build time for self-care into your week. You deserve it.

    1. Leatherwings*

      Is there a reason you can’t be upfront? “Hello Jane, I wanted to let you know that while Company Z did offer me a job, I had to decline due to a scheduling conflict. I really appreciate you serving as a reference, and I’ll keep you posted as my job search continues. Thanks, Hedy”

  114. Susan C.*

    Let’s talk about open plan offices (again).

    See, mine is actually really nice – with strategically placed chest height plants and furniture, and already generously spaced desks usually only half full with highly concentrated people. People use their indoor voice, and often enough you could hear a pin drop. BUT.

    Apparently, that’s still not good enough for Tywin, the new head of one of our business units (not mine). He spends a lot of time on the road or in other branches, but whenever he’s around, he occupies one of the few separate offices (which is Not Done as per company culture).

    It’s none of my business, it doesn’t affect me all that much but I’m basically at BEC with this guy over the sheer principle of the thing. Argh.

  115. ModernHypatia*

    For people who’ve worried about having had major life stuff happen early in a job.

    September 1st, we had a new assistant start (she does work for me and two other people: I am her supervisor of record) In less than three months, she’s had a housing-related emergency (everything’s fine now, but she had days she had to be home to get things fixed), a sibling’s spouse has died of fast-growing cancer, and jury duty. (Plus a few medical appointments that involved an hour here or there.)

    I’m delighted I work somewhere where I knew I could say “Go on, take the time.” and my only regret is that it can’t be paid time (that kicks in here at 3 months.) She’d interned with us previously, so we knew good things about her work ethic, but even without that, she made it very easy to say yes to giving her the time off, because of three things:

    1) Her work when she’s here is great (thoughtful, attentive, she learns stuff fast, she asks questions readily when she needs to so I feel confident stuff isn’t getting lost.)

    2) She’s been very clear about what time she needs, and also kept me informed if she knows something might come up (her first day she let me know about her sibling’s spouse, and that she expected sometime she’d need some time off for that sometime in the next six months.)

    3) She’s gone above and beyond to be clear with all three people she does work for about how this affects her time, what she’s gotten to, what she can’t, and been very agreeable about shifting priorities if we need to. When it’s relevant she’s come in early or stayed late, or worked through lunch if she was leaving mid-afternoon, as made sense.

    So. If your life blows up at you, even early in a job, there are people and jobs who will be reasonable about it and there are things you can do to make it easier for people to be flexible.

    1. Mimmy*

      I love this. I strongly believe that the employer-employee relationship is a two-way street. Yes, good employers are those who are flexible with policies regarding attendance, work style, etc. However, employees have to also do their due diligence and conduct themselves like your employee has.

  116. Junior Dev*

    I know I shouldn’t bug employers for a response but I’m wondering what to do when they asked me when I could do a phone interview and most of the dates I gave have passed.

    On Saturday I sent in my resume for a job posting. Monday morning I got an email back from the head of the department with a bunch of questions I’d normally associate with an interview–really in depth things about what technologies I had used, how I’d handled a difficult situation, etc. in multiple jobs. It also asked when i could do a phone interview.

    I answered but it took over 24 hours, because I was giving in depth answers to a bunch of questions. So on Tuesday I emailed that I can talk on Wednesday, Friday or Monday, and mentioned I would be out of town for the holiday most of next week.

    It’s now Friday morning and I haven’t heard back–should I assume he will get back to me about scheduling a time, and ask me for more times I’m available? Or should I reach out at some point?

    I’m also nervous he has changed his mind about wanting to interview me but it’s probably just that he’s busy.

    1. Leatherwings*

      Yeah, he’s probably just busy, particularly with the holidays coming up. I’d get in touch with him in a week or so (so the Monday after US Tgiving) if you haven’t heard back.

  117. Confused Teapot Maker*

    I work in a role where a few hundred emails and a few dozen phone calls a day is pretty much the norm (although not every single one requires a response), but it’s a lot of wade through and want to avoid coming off rude or short.

    My attitude to email vs phone is this; phone calls are for things which are relatively urgent – for example, you’re asking me to be somewhere in the next 24 hours or you’ve got an offer for me but you need my answer in the next two or three hours or it’s off the table. On the other hand, emails are for things which need to be dealt at some point when I have a moment.

    While many of the people I deal with seem to be on the same wavelength, I’ll equally have people who will call me up pretty much looking for a ten minute chat (I’m in an industry where time is at a premium so that’s really unfeasible) or spend ages trying to spin me their new concept but take forever to get to the point. On the flip side, I’ll equally get emails inviting me to (unessential but would still be good to go to) meetings in the near future (which I’ll miss – and they don’t come from an particular people either so it’s not like I can put a filter on to make sure I catch them).

    I’m starting to feel like I come across as rude. I try to gently nudge people (along the lines of “If you need me urgently, please call me – otherwise I might miss the email” or “Could you put this in an email? I don’t have time to talk about this at the moment.”).

    But then there’s the people who don’t take the hint. The worst one is when people call and ask “Do you have a second to talk right now?”. My answers are either “No, not really. Please could you email me?” to which a lot of people sound really put out by or, worse, ask me when I will have time to talk (to which the honest answer is I don’t know because the work in the industry is really reactive rather than nice and neatly scheduled…a fact an experienced person calling me would be sensitive to), or “If it’s quick” – to which I then find myself having to cut people off because they seem to think this is a green light to tell me the journey that brings them to this call today.

    My managers don’t seem to mind. In fact, I’ve overheard a couple of them on the phone and they are downright blunt with people (common overheard remarks are “You should know this is a busy office. You’re going to have to get to the point here” or “Why did you think I’d be interested in this?” or “Sorry – what’s the actual point of this call?”).

    But still I don’t want a reputation of being rude or cold or flaky or anything that comes along with that.

    I more just needed a rant but any suggestions also helpful! There’s no divert for my phone for busy times and I think messing with the company email signature to do a polite “Hey – I get a ton of emails a day. If you haven’t heard back from me and your email is urgent, please give me a call instead” would be frowned upon.

    1. One Handed Typist*

      Take your phone number off your email signature. That’s the fastest way! Use your voicemail at work to screen calls; people can’t talk to you if you don’t answer. If they leave a generic message (“Call when you have a chance!”), send them an email. If it’s something truly urgent, they will say so in the message. You know which people are the worst offenders for this. Unless you are a receptionist, you don’t have to take every call from an unknown number.

      1. Confused Teapot Maker*

        Unfortunately, I’m in a public facing role which I would quickly be chucked out of if my boss caught me removing my contact details from email signatures/not taking calls unless there was an incredibly pressing reason not to (which is basically ‘I’m on the other line right now’ or ‘I’m talking to a manager right now’ and that’s it!). Even the ridiculously blunt “Why on earth are you calling me?” managers are still of the opinion that calls should be taken as much as possible, on the off chance it is actually something important. (Might sound odd and like I’m making excuses but, long story short, it’s kind of industry standard to be contactable at all times – I’ve managed to push to keep my mobile number out off my work contact lists and I’m sure that doesn’t totally please the higher ups, for example!)

        1. Beezus*

          Can you tell a white lie andpretend to be on the other line? So “Do you have a second to talk right now?” could be answered with, “I’m actually on another call (have someone at my desk/just stepped out of a meeting to take your call and need to get back), is this urgent or can you send me a quick email?”

    2. Sibley*

      “I’m sorry, I only have 2 minutes. If this will take longer than that, can you please email me?”

      After the 2 minutes are up and they’re still jabbering – “I’m sorry, I have to go now. Do you mind sending me a summary via email?”

      Should help, not rude.

      1. Confused Teapot Maker*

        I think I’ll start phrasing it like that from now. I suppose after I’ve done that I’ve been polite as I can be and there are always going to be some people who can’t take the hint!!

    3. ModernHypatia*

      Do the things you get calls about involve names/dates/other stuff you’d have to write down from the phone call to do something about? I’ve had some luck with “Starting with email works better for most questions, since that way I have names, dates, and other details correct and all in one place.”.

      I also do “I’m in the middle of something – can you send me an email with the info and I’ll get back to you in [shortish period of time – 20 minutes to an hour] so I can focus on your question?” so I don’t lose my train of thought. (Followup is really key with both of them.)

      I also make occasional comments to people who really like calling about how if I have a chance to look at what they want to talk about before we talk on the phone, I can have the right info/application/etc. up on my computer while we talk rather than make them wait while I open things. I still get some calls, but they’re usually from specific people who have accessibility reasons for preferring phone to email, and I’m fine with that.

  118. Theresa*

    Any advice for being less self-deprecating? I’ve been noticing that I’m *really* self-deprecating at work, like almost every intraction I have is self-deprecating in one way or another. I can’t take it anymore, but it’s such a quick reflex that I barely notice it happening before it’s all said and done.

    I searched online and lots of the advice is “be more confident!!” Well, I’m working on that, but I’m looking for more concrete things to do about it.

    1. Sibley*

      Practice. It’s reflex, which means you have to consciously not do it and retrain yourself, which means practice and time.

      In other words – fake it til you make it. It really does help.

    2. Camellia*

      Figure out a standard response and then, literally, practice saying it out loud. For example, do some or all of these situations arise when you receive a compliment? Then practices saying, “Thank you!” Sometimes it can really be a simple as that.

      If they are occurring in other situations, still figure out what you want to say and practice it out loud. Hear how your voice sounds when you say it. Is your voice a bit weak or soft? Practice a firmer tone. One thing I like to do is say something very LOUD, at the top of my voice. Multiple times! Then I start bringing it down until I’m at a more conversational tone, and by then it doesn’t sound weird to me.

    3. Jules the First*

      Are you default self-deprecating (ie, “I’m so dumb, can you explain this to me again?”) or reflexively self-deprecating (ie, Wakeen says “Hey Theresa, that was an awesome catch on the chipped teapot spouts!” and you say “Oh, it was nothing”)?

      The solution in the first case is to promise yourself you’ll stop saying things about yourself that you wouldn’t say about someone else – so if you wouldn’t say “Jane’s so dumb; can you explain this to her again?”, you don’t say it of yourself. In the second case, the solution is to say thank you and then stop. Bite your tongue and move on. (You may find it helps to reflexively compliment for a while when you are complimented – so Wakeen says “Hey Theresa, great catch on the chipped teapot spouts!” and you say “Thanks Wakeen…great idea with the paisley tea cosies!”

    4. Diluted_Tortoiseshell*

      Where is the self-depreciation coming from?

      For me I did it to appear “humble” but I then found out that to a lot of folks, shrugging off major accomplishments that they view as incredible was really insulting/off putting. That helped me get less self-depreciating quick!

      I use to struggle with other things, like accepting compliments, and it helped me to frame it in being polite to other folks.
      Other people find self depreciation annoying, I don’want to annoy people. I like people!
      It makes people feel small when I don’t accept their compliments, I’ll accept compliments!

      Etc.

  119. Sabrina the Teenage Witch*

    I need some help on this one, please. I’ve been in my office for five years. My coworker, Leonard, has been here longer than I have and likely the reason I got hired after temping (which they won’t let me forget!) and my boss, Mrs. Wolowitz, has been here for two years. Leonard has been having some issues lately, mostly to do with attitude, and things have been very tense in the office. We were fairly good friends at one point, but that has all deteriorated. Leonard routinely tries to find things that I’ve done incorrectly and bring them to Mrs. Wolowitz’s attention. Luckily for me, she can see it for what it’s worth and calls him out on it. If anything, and I mean anything, goes wrong for him, he refuses to say even one word to me for days while being overly happy and nice to the rest of the world. I am very non-confrontational, still learning my field, and unsure how I should handle myself in these situations. I know my boss definitely has my back, but some days she isn’t around and I don’t want to make her deal with all these petty issues if she doesn’t have to. Any advice?

    1. A. D. Kay*

      You can call him out on that silent treatment. I think there was a post on Captain Awkward about that exact same issue–it was over petty stuff like a coworker offering to go pick up sandwiches and asking everyone else what they wanted except the LW. She called him out on it and made him own it. Leonard is already making it weird–calling him out with a professional-sounding script is just turning the weirdness back on him.

    2. Amy Farrah Fowler*

      I’m dealing with a Leonard of my own, except he not only tells Mrs. Wolowitz everything, he also runs and tells Sheldon, Howard, and Bernadette everything I’ve done incorrectly as well. BBT comments aside, it sounds like Leonard is very insecure and threatened by you. He’s making himself look bad, but it is still annoying. If he does have a good reason to be concerned, like if there is something that you should legitimately be doing differently, try to ask him about it. Get his feedback and maybe go over it with him. If it’s him being nitpicky, like you’re using size 10 Arial font and he prefers Times New Roman, I would ignore it. If Wolowitz isn’t there, I would say, “I heard my name, is there anything that I can help you with Leonard?”
      Seriously though, some people just can’t seem to mentally get out of junior high school.

      1. Artemesia*

        If anyone brings it up to you, look sad and say ‘isn’t it sad that Leonard is so insecure that he has to play these middle school games.’ and stop talking. or shorthand ‘yeah I know, isn’t it sad.’

  120. cobweb collector*

    I just need to vent.

    I started a new job 3 weeks ago. I’ve worked for tiny startups and giant corporations in the past. This is somewhere in the middle. I’ve never before seen a company that was so disorganized when it comes to onboarding people. On the day I started I didn’t even have a computer, and my desk was still filled with the stuff belonging to it’s previous inhabitant. In took 2 weeks to get access to the basic tools I needed to do my job. No one seem to know how to get things done – the answer to everything is “oh, just submit a request for X using system Y”, and once I do that I find out that was just one step of a process and I need to submit another request via another system. I don’t even know where to find things – it seems like nothing is documented. Everyone only sees their tiny piece of the puzzle, and has no idea what happens before or after them, or what else needs to happen for them to do their piece. It’s just frustrating.

    1. Sibley*

      Honestly, I work for a big company and our onboarding isn’t great either. In our case, its related to security stuff, but it can take 3-4 days for new employees to get their computer access.

      The rest of it – yeah, they’re a mess. Actually I think it’s fairly common. When you’re tiny, things are simple because they can be without causing massive problems. When you grow some, the problems start so you have to start putting defined processes into place. But because it’s still in implementation stage and it often isn’t formal, it’s messy. The big companies grew past that (usually), so maybe its complex but there’s also documentation to help.

      1. Chocolate Teapot*

        It once took me 5 months to get a computer at a previous job.

        Yes, you did read that correctly, and if you would like the story, here goes:

        I had relocated for a job, which would be to set up the satellite office of a large national company in a neighbouring country. On arriving for my first day, I was given a large bunch of keys and a post-it note with an address on it, by the company lawyers. I was shown where the address was, and it turned out to be a nice large office with furniture in it, but nothing else. No telephones, no computers, not even a pencil. Bear in mind this relocation and office creation had been planned for some months.

        Thankfully the lawyers took pity on me and let me use their offices to make some phone calls to the head office, who seemed a bit bemused as to why I would be wanting a computer and some pencils. I spent the next few weeks shuttling back and forth between satellite office and head office whilst they discussed the merits of various network servers and providers of office equipment. (Should I buy my pencils locally or would they be delivered from central stationary purchasing? Would we have a soap dispenser attached to the wall, or would it be one of those pump bottles?)

        By this stage I had resorted to stealing free pencils from networking events in hotels. After 3 weeks, the phone line was put in and eventually some months later 2 men came from head office and spent several days laying cables and connecting the computers. Head office had nothing for us to do and the promised increase of employees never happened, so I just kept taking the nice paycheques until I found something else.

  121. One Handed Typist*

    I work at a State University with an EARLY Open Enrollment. In fact, our Open Enrollment closes September 30th. Of course, in October the IRS announced an increase to the 2017 employee contribution maximum for employer-sponsored Health FSAs. I contacted our HR and was told too bad, so sad, Open Enrollment is over. When I pushed back they said they don’t have anything to do with that aspect and it is all handled by the main State University office that oversees all State Universities.

    Any suggestions or ideas? My position is part of a bargaining unit and I spoke with our Unit President about it and she is looking into it more.

      1. One Handed Typist*

        My Union rep discouraged that. She wanted to have a chance to let the system in place work.

    2. H.C.*

      Yeah, your union rep is probably the best avenue to go but this looks like a “rules are rules; sucks for the timing this year.”

      But on the flipside, if the IRS had planned to decrease Health FSA contribution max in October (or any other tax-related benefit), would you want your employer to decrease your withholdings even though open enrollment had closed on Sept. 30?

      1. One Handed Typist*

        That’s a good point, but they would have to – I wouldn’t legally be allowed to take out the higher amount.

    3. WellRed*

      I could be wrong but I thought you could increase or decrease FSA contributions at any time (I may be thinking of something else). But also, the increase is miniscule. I mean, I went for it, but I think it was an extra $3 per week.

      1. One Handed Typist*

        It’s $50 a year, which is pretty small when broken out into my monthly check, but it’s also indicative of a larger issue we are having with the University’s Open Enrollment timing being unreasonable. My husband works for another government agency and they didn’t even receive their Open Enrollment guidance until 15 October. That two week discrepancy prevents us from making an informed decision on our health insurance and other benefits.

        But no, you can’t make those FSA changes during the year. At least we’ve never been able to.

      2. Sophie Winston*

        HSA contributions you can change at any time and the funds roll over. FSA contributions are set once a year and you lose unspent funds at year end.

    4. Loose Seal*

      A similar thing happened to us at last year’s open enrollment. The day after open enrollment ended, I got a letter from my doctor that said they were not going to be on our insurance the next year because they could not come to terms on the contract. The annoying thing was that if I had gotten the letter one day earlier, I could have switched us to the other insurance company offered and it wouldn’t have been that much different as far as services and premiums went.

      After complaining to the local HR, we were told to call the HR at the flagship university because apparently they make all the decisions about open enrollment and it would be their call whether or not to re-open for a few days. I called and pointed out to them that since this group of doctors opted out, I had no access to women’s health in the entire (very rural) county – no mammogram, no gynecologist, nothing – in hopes that was serious enough to make them reopen it briefly. Long story short, they didn’t reopen it and I’ve had to drive a lot this year for what should be routine appointments. I’m still angry at both the higher-ups who don’t seem to care that we didn’t have local access to women’s healthcare and the Doctor’s group who was just holding out for more money.

      So, long story short, talk to whomever you can and escalate it as high as you can. Since your issue potentially affects everyone as opposed to just women in the rural corner of the state, they might open it back up. Get everyone you work with to complain as well.

  122. chickabiddy*

    I am a freelance teapot polisher with a few steady contracts. One of them includes evaluating both new (freelance) teapot painter applicants and our existing (freelance) teapot painters.

    When I evaluate applicants’ samples, I do so on my own computer with my own software. This leaves a trail of comments and corrections that are marked with my real name, as that is how my software is registered. I recently learned that my manager has been returning the samples to the applicants whom he does not hire as a way of explaining why they are not being hired. My comments are all professionally appropriate but I am still uneasy about them going out attached to my real name. I cannot articulate why this makes me uncomfortable. I have an extremely low-key social media presence but I suppose someone could track me down if he or she really wanted to. Am I being overly anxious (a definite possibility) or is it worth re-registering a copy of my software with a bland alias such as “Teapot Polisher 72”?

    My next dilemma involves gender. I have never met the teapot painters. I only know them by name. There is an option on the company’s prepackaged platform where users can upload small avatar photos and a few of them have. I am aware that legal names and chosen avatars are not always an accurate representation of a person’s true gender identity (I am not actually a grinning grey cat although my avatar is); however, for ease of storytelling I will describe painters with traditionally male names and male-appearing photos as “male” and painters with traditionally female names and female-appearing photos as “female” even though that may not be how they would define themselves.

    I find that I consistently score the male painters’ teapots higher than the females’. This is distressing to me in several different ways (I am female myself). I have spent a great deal of time and energy evaluating my own evaluations. Even if I disregard style, which is important but which is also subjective, the fact remains that most of the female painters’ teapots are simply more technically flawed than most of the male painters’ teapots. I begged a favor from a friend who polishes teapots for a completely different company, and she agrees with me about the quality of the painting.

    I do not feel good at all about regularly submitting teapot reports that have most of the males outscoring most of the females. However, I would feel worse artificially inflating the female painters’ scores. I have very little interaction with the painters and the manager has been very clear that he wants it that way. I provide feedback to him and he provides feedback to the painters. Also, I am paid by the piece, which covers my polishing time only and not any time for interacting directly with painters. Even if it was appropriate for me to offer coaching to the female painters, I do not want to set a precedent that I will provide services that benefit the company for free (that’s kind of a basic tenet of working freelance and not on salary). I am not sure how to handle this, either organizationally or in my own brain. Can anyone offer any advice?

    1. Kimberlee, Esq*

      The traditional advice here is 1) the company should do what it can to advertise to female painters/make sure that female painters’ work is a welcome submission at the company, and 2) ensure that your rubric for judging is as objective and consistent as you can make it. It sounds like you have limited control over 1, and are doing what you can for 2, so once you’ve done that, you have two choices: you can let the chips fall where they may, and whoever’s work is best is best, or 2) judge women’s submissions higher in a form of affirmative action (which as you know is tricky and possibly illegal).

      One possibility; is there a way to rate potential? Like, are there people whose style you really like, but whose brushstrokes (or whatever) are slightly off perfect, but you have every reason to believe would become perfect with some practice? That’s something you can incorporate into your rubric as well.

      1. chickabiddy*

        I do, to some extent, consider potential when evaluating candidates but do not (and am not supposed to) when evaluating the painters already on staff.

    2. katamia*

      Since your manager prefers that you have little interaction with the painters, could you ask him to scrub the names before giving you the samples? It won’t fix the fact that female painters’ teapots seem to have more technical flaws, but it would help with any appearance of bias.

      Outside of your company, is there some sort of new teapot painter mentoring organization that you could get involved in to help female teapot painters improve their technical skills?

      1. chickabiddy*

        It’s not just the samples but the actual work product, and given the platform we use, I don’t think there’s any way to disguise the names. I do some mentoring, but I do that locally and our painters are all across the country so are not really able to participate in the organization (and even if they could, I think I would be uncomfortable personally mentoring one or two painters while being responsible for evaluating them).

      2. Jennifer*

        Yeah, blind submissions sounds like the best way to make this neutral. Not to mention blind comments where they don’t know they can look YOU up personally…which is a good idea anyway in this day and age.

    3. Dawn*

      As someone who is a “bleeding heart” liberal feminist you’re thinking about this way, way too hard. I understand where your feelings are coming from, but if you have confirmed that your judgment of the technicalities is rooted in facts and not in any underlying bias that you might have then there is nothing that you can do but continue to judge candidates based on technical skill and technical skill alone.

      That being said, what you can do is start offering more feedback to *all* painters, regardless of gender. If it means more feedback to painters with traditionally female names and avatars then so be it. If you don’t get paid for it, consider it volunteer time or something. If you don’t want to do that, maybe speak with your boss about how you’d like to offer feedback to all painters but it’d cut into your time for actually making money and perhaps they’d like to formalize some sort of feedback program that you could get paid for, or something along those lines.

      1. chickabiddy*

        “continue to judge candidates based on technical skill and technical skill alone”

        The bigger problem to me is not the candidates, but the painters already on staff. It’s not quite as structured as stack ranking, but the scores do make a difference in how much work the painters get and it is bothering me that our female painters are earning less than our male painters as a direct result of my scores.

        The manager is not willing to implement any sort of feedback or coaching system. His attitude (which I don’t love) is that he hires experienced painters on a freelance basis *because* he does not want to deal with training or development as might be expected in a more traditional environment. If I were to offer coaching it would be against his express wishes and likely would not end well for me.

        1. Observer*

          The females painters are NOT getting paid less because of you, but because their skills are of lower quality than the male painters. To judge existing staff on anything less than skill would be dishonest, unless the company wanted it otherwise.

          I agree with the others who say that you should see if you cam get the stuff with the gender omitted. If technical skill / quality is all the is supposed to be counted, this is something they should do dor all evaporators, not just you. Point out to them that if all evaluations are done without knowledge of gender, it becomes much harder for someone to claim bias down the road.

          For your own sake, the only thing you can do is try to change the pipeline, so to speak. The kind of thing you are doing with feedback and mentoring locally won’t have *immediate* results, but could eventually be helpful in shifting the landscape.

      2. Honeybee*

        I don’t think OC is thinking about it too hard – it’s good to be aware of these kinds of things. That said, though, I do agree that not much can be done necessarily.

  123. People!!*

    Advice on how to deal with an employee who is completely not self-aware? To wit: yesterday I met with Fergus to discuss his performance plan for the year going forward. 50% competencies, 50% goals. There are a few mandatory competencies, but you can add some as well. I added “teamwork” to his plan, and that was the first thing we talked about. Later in the conversation we discussed one of his goals, teapot organization. Basically, we’re swapping a large collection of fragile blue teapots with a large collection of fragile green teapots. Reginald started the project but left in the middle of it, leaving a bunch of green teapots out instead of putting them where the blue teapots used to be. So we’re talking about how Fergus is going to finish the project (“but I don’t know where Reginald was putting the blue teapots!”) and says to me “I was told that if I take a red teapot off the shelf, I need to put it back. So why are other people allowed to take things out and leave them out?”

    My response to him is that he does need to put things back that he takes out, but if he sees something that someone else neglected to put away, that he should put it away.
    FERGUS: So I’m the only one who has to put teapots away?
    ME: No, everyone has to put away teapots, but if someone leaves a teapot out and you see it, you can be a team player and put it away.
    FERGUS: So I can leave teapots out and other people will have to put them away?
    ME: That’s not what I said. You still need to put teapots away if you take them out. Everyone should be putting away the teapots they take out. But if they don’t, you need to be a team player and put away teapots that someone else took out.

    Fergus never “got it.” Has anyone been here before? Did anything work?

    1. Confused Teapot Maker*

      Hmm. I might be reading too much into this here but I’m guessing Fergus is quite young and in one of his first jobs and doesn’t understand that, shock horror, life just isn’t fair sometimes. To me, this doesn’t sound like “I don’t understand why I need to do things which might help other people”, more “I don’t understand why other people are allowed to have one set of rules – leaving teapots out – and I have to work by another, more harsh set of rules – having to put teapots away every time” (obviously Reginald is no longer at liberty to put teapots away at your company but I can still see Fergus’ logic).

      Perhaps you can brooch it to him more in that way. I know you sort of had but you might need to be a little bit more on the nose about it. Something along the lines of: “I know it’s not right that some people don’t put teapots away, but either it’s in a situation where it’s completely unavoidable or (and assuming you do) we follow it up with them and ask to be more diligent in the future. Everybody needs to put teapots away if at all possible and, because we recognise that it isn’t always, we ask everybody to pitch in a put away any teapots they see left out if they have time to.”

      (That being said, sometimes people are plain oblivious. My company also has a problem with people leaving their teapots out and leaving another person to pick up their slack. You ask them about it and it turns into an “Oh, but I don’t have time to”. Fine when it’s accompanied by a “But thank you so much for sorting it out for me – I owe you!!”, not so fine when it’s a “But Marigold and Roland will do it for me, so that’s cool”….erm, no. Marigold and Roland have their own teapots to put away! /rant)

      1. People!!*

        He’s actually not that young (though he IS the only person in the office younger than I am–that’s a different story entirely) OR in his first job. Which is what makes this so much more frustrating! I appreciate your feedback and suggested language. I suspect that I will be doing significant coaching on this issue (and perhaps a PIP, if the coaching alone doesn’t cut it) so other ways of saying things is helpful.

        1. Artemesia*

          The problem seems to be his contentious whininess. Part of being a grownup and a professional is not whining about every little thing and measuring every little injustice.

          I’d be giving feedback that teamwork is important and being argumentative and aggrieved about small things makes him unpleasant to work with and is the opposite of teamwork. What other people do is not his problem; it is the managers. What he does is his problem. It is childish to whine about such things; if it is a major problem i.e. everyone really does leave stuff constantly for him to do that is not his job then he needs to address that calmly with you so you can note the pattern and intervene.

    2. Dawn*

      It sounds like Fergus is motivated heavily by things being “fair” and has a really hard time dealing with situations where things are not objectively “fair”- as in, everyone is being treated equally. So he feels like he’s being put-upon to do more work than everyone else (for whatever reason people who are ultra into super fairness get hung up on this kinda thing).

      Perhaps re-frame it as “All of the teapots should be put away 100% of the time. If you see a teapot that has not been put away, then you (as someone whose job it is to make sure that the teapots are put away) should put that teapot away. It’s not about who took the teapot out, it’s about making sure that all of the teapots are put away, which is part of your job and part of why you’re here working for us. If there’s someone who is chronically not putting their teapots away, then please let me know and I will talk with them separately. However, sometimes people have things come up and cannot put away all of their teapots- that’s normal, and happens from time to time. If Marge or Sue or Francis cannot put away all of their teapots because they need to go do something else, then everyone else on the team- including you Fergus- pitches in and helps put the teapots away, because part of this job is making sure that all of the teapots are put away. Sometime in the future you might get called to take care of something else and all of your teapots might not be put away, and I would expect Marge or Sue or Francis to pitch in and help put all of the teapots away, again because it’s part of the job of the Teapot Team to make sure all of the teapots are put away. Moving forward, I expect you to chip in when you see that there are teapots that need to be put away, and put away those teapots. Can you do that?”

      Also oh my god I am sympathizing with you so much that you have to sit down with a grown adult and have the above conversation with them because I’m pretty sure we all learned that lesson in like… preschool.

      1. People!!*

        Oh, he definitely is hyper-aware of what’s “fair.” That’s a good way for me to think about how I need to frame my interactions with him. Thanks for that observation!

        And like in my reply above to Confused Teapot Maker, thank you for the suggestions for wording my next conversation with him. Especially (and this should be obvious, but for whatever reason I don’t think I’ve ever said it in ANY of my one on ones): “this is part of your job.”

        You’d be shocked by the number of conversations I’ve had to have with grown adults. “When I send you an email, I need you to respond to it.” “I feel disrespected when you come 20 minutes late to a meeting with me because you ‘were on a personal call.'” “If you are going to be late to a meeting because you are looking for parking, call the person you’re meeting with.” (I need to get off my duff and go have this last one. 45 minutes he was looking for parking! And not one word to the person he was meeting with.)

        1. LCL*

          I took a course on writing performance evaluations this morning, taught by a lawyer. She said one type of disgruntled employee complaint that she is seeing more of is employees pushing back against job tasks. Like, if his job is to move the teapots and polish them and put them back, he may decide he isn’t going to put them back. She suggested being very specific with this type of employee.

      2. neverjaunty*

        This is excellent – and I would particularly emphasize the parts where you point out that 1) this goes both ways, and others would have to shelve his teapots; it isn’t just about his picking up others’ slack, and 2) if this becomes an issue of somebody not doing that part of their job, rather than an occasional thing, you will deal with it.

    3. Temperance*

      My summer intern was a total Fergus.

      He’s purposely being obtuse. He’s probably self-important, and wants to make sure he’s above other people. My hunch is that he’s very new to either the workforce or your org.

    4. Torrance*

      Are there consequences if people leave teapots out, or is it just expected that Fergus will put them away? If it is ultimately his responsibility for making sure the teapots are put away, no matter who pulls them out, then I think it would go a long way towards meeting him halfway if it was acknowledged that, yes, he is the ‘only one who has to put teapots away’.

      1. The Cosmic Avenger*

        I think that’s what’s bothering him. Fergus may feel he is being singled out to always put the teapots away, because he may perceive that others are apparently not putting theirs away and as far as he knows they are not being given the same orders he is. And even if they are and they’re ignoring them, there may need to be more accountability, either one person is responsible for putting away all the teapots for a day/week/etc, or there’s some kind of teapot logging system so that if the red one is left out, you can go say “Wakeen, you checked out the red teapot and left it out, please go put it back right now.”

        That last part may sound like treating them immaturely, but think of this as cleaning the break room — people get tired of being the responsible ones, and really, we generally shouldn’t have to clean up after other grownups anyway. And once we start, we might be enabling those who are taking advantage of others’ interest in the common good.

        I’m not saying any or all of that applies here, but that’s probably at least part of what’s contributing to his attitude.

        1. Camellia*

          Came here to say this but you beat me to it! Ending up having to put away teapots because others have fallen into the ‘oh, Fergus will do it’ would not be my favorite thing either.

    5. cobweb collector*

      Everyone is required to put away their own teapots. Sometimes people make mistakes and forget. When that happens the next person should do it. I expect everyone to both clean up after themselves and to be a team playter and help out their teammates should one of them accidentally forget. If you do accidentally forget (and try not to make a habit out of it), then hopefully someone would clean up after you”.

    6. Beem*

      In addition to the language suggested above, you might try pointing out how a good vs. excellent employee might approach this.

  124. kac*

    Team Ask a Manager, I need your advice:

    I have an objectively horrible boss. In August, he had a meltdown and started screaming at me in a room full of people (for asking questions, in a session designed for asking questions). He was forced to take an unpaid leave of absence, but has been back ever since and is still my boss.

    What’s worse: he quite simply does not do his job. He does not share essential information, and important projects that he says he will do/be in charge of just never happen. When I follow up to ask about the status of those projects, he simply ignores me. Weeks and multiple emails/phone calls (We work remotely.) and all I get is radio silence or a vague promise to “send that along,” which of course never happens. When I dig deeper, it is consistently clear that he just isn’t doing these things.

    I’ve escalated this multiple times, but so far nothing has changed. It’s open knowledge at my whole company that he doesn’t do his job, but for whatever reason he’s not being held accountable. He always has some convoluted story for why he’s not doing what he said he would, why things changed, why he has to cancel every single meeting, etc. The powers that be tell me they know he is letting our team down as a manager, that he isn’t holding up his end of the bargain, and yet nothing changes (which, at this point, is almost more maddening than if they insisted he was doing good work).

    So far you’re thinking–clearly it’s time to get a new job! Except I’m having my first baby in 2 months. I WFH and have flexible hours, so even after maternity leave, I’ll likely need to stay here for at least a while longer.

    Do you have advice on either a) emotionally dealing with an incompetent jerk for a boss or b) how to hold him accountable and/or get other people to hold him accountable? Thanks.

    1. The Cosmic Avenger*

      For A, the first thing I would suggest is dropping B. Your company has made it crystal clear that they do not consider it important that your boss does his job, so you do not need to consider it important either. If part of your job is dependent on his work, point that out once to someone who depends on that part of your work or someone else above your boss or outside his reporting line (and it sounds like you already have), and then let it go. They know you can’t do that part of your job, and apparently they’re OK with it, at least for now.

      If you have trouble letting it go, you could outline a plan to get that work done anyway, like hiring a temp or shifting approval to whoever depends on that output that’s being held up, but present it as a suggestion, and don’t be too invested in whether it’s implemented or not.

      Good luck!

      1. kac*

        For A, the first thing I would suggest is dropping B.

        Damn, you are right. I do not want that to be true, but it very clearly needs to be my objective here. Thanks for the wise words; I needed to hear them.

      2. NicoleK*

        I would have to agree. Your company has made it crystal clear that they’re not going to hold him accountable. You keep bringing it up, you become the problem. Trust me, I know.

  125. I just totally suck, don't I?*

    *sigh* The job search has begun. I sent out one resume today (I need two more for the week ending tomorrow for UI). For something that pays far less than what I was making.

    There isn’t much out there I can do while avoiding accounting. I was trying to make a plan, and I know it’s time to leave here. But the problem I have here is the same problem I’ll have everywhere else–admin jobs almost ALL have some kind of budgeting/accounting now. Or phones. God, I do NOT want to go back to the front desk. As in, kill me first don’t want to go back.

    I realized that I spent almost four years editing and assembling technical reports, so I searched “technical editor” on Indeed.com and found a shizload of stuff–not all of which I can do, but some of the listings looked like jobs I could do. Is this too ambitious? I don’t have any SME experience, but I didn’t when I started NowExjob either. I talked to the HR person there about my final paychecks and mentioned this, and she said yep you have this skill now, and when we hire tech writers across the board, they get a sample to work with. I did too, for that job initially. And aced it.

    The only problem with this is that most of the jobs are either in places I wouldn’t want to live in, or they are in a cool place but I don’t have any money to move. So it looks like I’m going to have to do some crap job here for a while, which probably won’t pay enough to let me save anything.

    I should mention all the listings I saw were “the position works out of our Bumblef*ck Horse Manure, Freezing Cold State office.” So no chance of remote work there (so far).

    I thought about setting up something freelance, but there is the math thing again. I don’t know how to figure a rate or deal with the taxes and there isn’t any money to pay someone for that. And there is the health insurance issue. I don’t even know yet if my UI claim will be approved. It might be challenged since I was let go, but when I called to ask a question, the guy on the phone was reading back my info and he said the word “layoff.” Maybe someone classified it that way? Or they already checked with my company? Who knows? Without UI, I’m totally in trouble because there is no other money coming in and this house can’t be sold like it is, without me losing on it. My mum said they would help me get it up to saleable standard but I do not want to put that on them.

    I could not feel more trapped right now. Sorry to be so negative but I am just like, pfffft.

    1. kac*

      I don’t have advice for all of this but regards to this question: Is this too ambitious?

      The answer is: NO! What’s the worst that happens? You apply and don’t get the job. You weren’t going to get the job if you didn’t apply, either.

      Good luck! <3

        1. H.C.*

          Can you ask your former employer if you can use one or two documents are part of your professional portfolio?

          Alternatively, sometimes these works are less proprietary than you think. Try a few detailed searches and see if those documents are now publicly available.

        3. Jen RO*

          The usual advice I see for people applying to tech writing positions is to basically create some samples – either volunteer to document some open source software or re-document something. You could write some procedures for stuff you did day-to-day in Word or Excel? I know I would appreciate such a writing sample when I interview people.

          (As before, if you decide to go into tech writing, I am available for any questions, I love talking about it! I just don’t know anything about the US market.)

    2. SeekingBetter*

      I’m sorry to hear you’re going through all of this, and I’m sure it’s stressful. If your mom can help you out a little, I’m sure it will help relieve some of that stress while you’re job searching now, despite the fact you feel guilty about getting their help.

      As for the health insurance issue, there is a possibility you could get approved for your state’s Medicaid, or what- they-may-call-it state health insurance. In my state, there is an income limitation that is quite high, so I couldn’t get approved for it while collecting UI. Now that I’m approved, I don’t have to pay a premium and most services are co-pay and coinsurance free. It is not the best health insurance, but it’s something. It’s worth looking into and you might not have to pay anything out-of-pocket for the premiums. But check first.

      1. I just totally suck, don't I?*

        Well, at my doctor’s office, you can sign up for a program where if you don’t have any income you pay $10 for any office visit. If they still have it, I can do that. It makes you go to these dumb health meetings, which are super boring and lame, but you only have to do a couple.

        Dental and vision is going to be a problem. The sheet they gave me for COBRA at term had prices on it, and dental is $33 a month and vision is very cheap. So if I can find a way to pay those until 1) I can get contacts (I’m almost out), or 2) find work, then I’ll have that. There is NO dental college here at ALL and only a low-income clinic where they don’t fill; they pull teeth only. :( I can also call my dentist and eye doctor and see what they can do. I have insurance until the end of the month. But stupid holiday coming up. :(

        1. nonymous*

          honestly I would talk to your dentist re: whether you can get the insurance rate if you pay cash. When my mom was unemployed our family dentist would do this *if* she came in when they had a cancellation. If you’re on the normal 6-month cleaning cycle, this may be cheaper than paying the cobra rate.

          Als0, cash gigs on CL if possible.

        2. SeekingBetter*

          That’s totally cool that you can just only pay $10 at your doctor’s office if you don’t have an income. Yeah, COBRA is crazy expensive.

    3. Paige Turner*

      Arrrgh, no need to apologize for being negative. That totally sucks. Definitely see if you can negotiate it as a layoff. <3

      1. I just totally suck, don't I?*

        If they already put it down that way and/or approve it, then I’m okay. If I have to file an appeal, I can definitely point out that the job changed completely, because it did. It was a perfect fit that changed to a crappy one.

    4. Anxa*

      I hope this isn’t too far out of line, but I have some issues with numbers as well. Math was one of my worst subjects, and probably the only subject where when I actually put in the work, I still struggled on tests.

      I think I’m above average with math in general compared to peers, but still, it’s been an issue for me (I have issue with transcribing numbers and have a thing with 4s and 7s). That said, I don’t think I have dyscalculia (although I do have several other symptoms like issues with coordination, time perception, etc.).

      Anyway, I was a science major and did some work in labs and ruled out a lot of jobs because I was terrified that I’d make a mistake and kill someone. I still think that direct clinical care probably isn’t for me, but I have noticed one thing:

      a lot of people who don’t have issues with numbers have issues with numbers. Anyone can make a typo. Lots of people have let their math lapse. I remember feeling stunned in my internship when the postdocs and actual-science-grad students started leaving me with a lot of work because I was “good with math.” Me! The person who couldn’t remember my new address last month and would randomly forget my locker combo in high school if I thought about it instead of letting muscle memory take over. Me who got a C in college calculus after actually trying and has never actually finished a college math test because I need to double check for errors.

      I don’t mean to suggest that you’re putting up barriers that aren’t there, or to encourage to take on a job you know you’ll struggle in (I know how much it sucks to only seem to get hired for jobs you know you’ll struggle in and not be able to land in a job that’s a good match). That said, I hope that if there’s a job that’s not very numbers heavy that you’ll allow yourself to mess up about as often as your average person may mess up? When I get self-conscious about my shortcomings, I tend to succumb to perfectionism. I still am paranoid of making a mistake at work one day (but this site has helped me see that good employees make real mistakes, too).

      But mostly that just really stinks.

      1. I just totally suck, don't I?*

        That said, I don’t think I have dyscalculia (although I do have several other symptoms like issues with coordination, time perception, etc.).

        Well those actually can be symptoms of dyscalculia–I have them too! But we may have different degrees of it. You made it to calculus; I can’t even do division. (I don’t even know what calculus is.) It affects everybody differently. I’m glad you are able to do those things. :)

        It can sometimes be hard to tell from a listing what exactly they require. I hate wasting people’s time in interviews when I don’t find out until then that I need to balance a cash drawer to the penny every day when it wasn’t spelled out in the job listing (that interview ended really fast and was super embarrassing for everybody).

        Another problem is Excel. Everybody wants you to be proficient in Excel. They want damn charts and tables and blah blah bhalbhalhblahblah. All that requires FORMULAS. Excel is just a big calculator you program to do math for you. You cannot use a calculator if you don’t understand the equation you’re inputting. Or if someone asks me to figure out a number from other numbers–that’s the same as a word problem, and I have no idea how to go about solving it. That part of my brain doesn’t retain math processes. It’s like a dead zone. Like those strings of lights where one socket is bad and it always burns out any bulb you put in it. Also, I can’t see errors, so I couldn’t check for them.

        If someone else does the prep work on the spreadsheet, I can enter it and check basic formulas but that’s it. Most people don’t want that, though; they want someone who can do all of it. When you say “I cannot do that,” they hear “I don’t want to do that.” Not the same thing.

        Dear baby Christ on a tricycle, I am so sick of dealing with this.

        1. You don't suck*

          “Dear baby Christ on a tricycle, I am so sick of dealing with this.” This made me laugh. I feel bad for you, but I really needed a chuckle this week. Okay, back to your post. I would still apply to any and every admin job even if it says Excel. I’m not sure if this would be smart, but just an idea. Could you describe it as a sort of weakness and say that you want to enhance your Excel skills and plan on taking classes at your local library. (They usually have adult programs featuring Excel for free. Whether or not you actually go is between you and baby Christ on that tricycle.) I am in a similar position (no job, COBRA sucking the life out of me), so I want to wish you good luck with everything! Hang in there!

        2. Anxa*

          Yeah. I don’t think I have it, but I definitely struggle with some of those things to a level that’s disproportionate to my general intelligence.

          Agh, that’s just so frustrating. Do you have issues with letters in non-word form? Numbers when no math is involved?

          I’m asking because I’m thinking of technical writing and other detail-oriented work and how that would be affected. Like, can you deal with serial numbers, and addresses and phone numbers pretty well, or are those also things that may make things tricky. I have objectively good language skills and excelled in some foreign languages where the patterns make sense to me, but the reading the IKEA catalog and dipthong heavy languages also slow me down. I don’t have any technical writing experience (outside of writing SOPs and other lab-type things), but I’d imagine it would make a difference.

          1. I just totally suck, don't I?*

            I don’t know what to tell you. I’d get tested. A neuropsychiatrist was able to finally diagnose me. I did not get any kind of help or intervention as a kid because nobody even knew this was a thing. I can’t diagnose you; all I can say is that judging by your comments, you seem to have some difficulties similar to mine.

            If you’re writing lab SOPs, etc, that is experience. Not much but it is.

            1. Anxa*

              Oh, whoops. I left a sentence out. I really don’t have that much interest in even knowing if I did have something like that, I’m just trying to connect with having some issues with numbers and how I know that for me, as someone who is probably much more comfortable with math/numbers than you but has quirks of my own, not all math or numbers pose a problem.

              So I was more wondering if you think you can work around having to work with numbers if there’s no actual math. For me it’s not the math, usually, but the numbers themselves.

        3. nonymous*

          oh, there are plenty of people without a disability that should never be allowed to use excel formulas.

          For example, don’t take the average of a column when “1” means alive and “0” means dead. just don’t.

    5. Photoshop Til I Drop*

      You come across as very detail-oriented, though I know math is an issue for you. Since you’ve mentioned writing/editing, have you looked into indexing? It requires specialized software, but it would allow you to telework, and once you get experience, the references will flow like water.

    6. NoMoreMrFixit*

      First up, NO, you do not “totally suck” so please stop telling yourself that. Your comments on various posts on this site have been thoughtful and intelligent. Feeling down about unplanned job hunting isn’t unusual but don’t beat yourself up over this.

      Now, if you are interested in technical communications (writing, editing, indexing, training/course content development) I suggest you look into the Society for Technical Communications at http://www.stc.org/ They have a job bank and local chapters all over the USA and Canada with regular meetings. Guests are always welcome. Good field to go into. Did a lot of writing/editing during my years as a techie and the skills are a Godsend now that I’m back in college studying HR. STC meetings are also good places to ask working writers about going rates in your area and all the other issues that come with being self-employed.

      Don’t give up hope!

    7. Dynamic Beige*

      A great quote has been making its way around The Internets for the past week which I’m sure is making hiring managers shudder and/or wake up in a cold sweat. I will paraphrase:

      He-who-must-not-be-named is a reminder that you should just go ahead and apply to that job you want, even if you don’t have the experience.

    8. Chaordic One*

      I would definitely apply for health insurance under the Affordable Care Act. Right away. Do it before you-know-who repeals it. It should be in existence for at least another year. And hopefully longer.

      To qualify for January 1, you need to apply before December 15, and I would recommend doing it early. It has been a lifesaver for myself after I was let go from Dysfunctional Teapots, Ltd.

      If you get a new job before the insurance takes effect, or after the insurance takes effect, you can always cancel it.

    9. Christy*

      I forget the exact intricacies of your financial situation, but I’d like to advocate for you going into debt to move somewhere else. From what I can recall, you really don’t like where you live and you’d enjoy (like on a personal level, not just on a get-a-job level) living somewhere bigger than where you are now.

      And I know moving is really expensive, but I think the debt might be worth it if it’s something you can handle.

      Could you rent out your house while you move away? That could keep building that asset for you. Could you sell your house and use that as a nest egg? (And if you rent, I’m sorry for forgetting that!)

      Also, in case you were curious what calculus is, it’s the study of change–like how the distance you travel relates to how fast you go. And how acceleration relates to speed.

      1. overeducated*

        +1. Not unlimited debt, like don’t move to NYC with no job leads or friends to crash with, but the cost of a plane ticket for a promising interview, a U-Haul, a deposit, and groceries until your first paycheck could pay off with better options and higher earnings in a year or two, and you might be happier. Might be worth staying open to opportunities that could involve debt along those lines if they would get you where you want to be.

        Good luck! It sounds like you have lots of useful skill, you just need to land on the opening with the right combination.

  126. Marche*

    This weekend I have to write a four-hour test as a prescreening for a candidate pool. There’s not even any known jobs on the other end, just the knowledge that the company can look at this candidate pool and find prescreened people, rather than put out a job ad. It’s the most I’ve gotten since graduating, so… I’ll take it. I’m not holding my breath on getting called for any interviews, but hey, it’s something, right?

    1. SeekingBetter*

      Wow, I can’t believe this organization is making you do a four-hour test. I do hope you make it in the candidate pool though!

      1. Marche*

        Thanks! It’s two tests without a break between the two, so it’s going to suck. I plan on treating myself to a nice lunch after.

  127. Beem*

    I’ve posted before about my Business Communication class and some of the bad advice the teacher gives.

    We started resumes last week and . . . it’s not all bad, but this specific thing seems weird to me.

    My teacher wants the resume to be structured so that you list all of your skills and accomplishments under the Skills and Accomplishments section, then list your jobs (And company, time period, city) with NO OTHER INFORMATION under the job heading. Like this:

    Skills and Accomplishments
    +Skill
    +Accomplishment
    +Etc. (this section is the bulk of the resume)

    Experience
    Teapot Designer, Chocolate Teapots Co., April 2011-January 2015, Avalon, CA
    Teacup & Mug Designer, Tea or Die Inc., May 2009-May 2011, Port Hueneme, CA

    Is this good advice?

    1. katamia*

      Nooooooooooooooo. I do have a brief skills section at the top of my resume to list skills that aren’t clearly indicated by my jobs (like language skills), but you need to have achievements and duties under the job, espcially if, like me, you’ve had job titles like “Teapot Ninja” or just job titles where the majority wouldn’t know what you really did. I’ve worked as a Teapot Editor before, but that could mean probably 10 different things depending on people’s experience in the teapot field, what the hiring manager thinks editors actually do, etc. Lumping all your skills and accomplishments together can also rob them of context that could make the accomplishments especially look more or less impressive than they really are.

      Also, as someone who’s been mostly freelancing for the last few years, the format you were told would provide basically no information about what I’ve been up to.

    2. Dawn*

      NO.

      When I look at a resume what I’m looking for is: WHAT has this person done *and more importantly* what is the CONTEXT in which it was done. Your resume should show the accomplishments you had at a particular job and the skills you used while making those accomplishments. That way I can see the progression of your skills from job to job, chronologically. So first job out of school you accomplished X, Y, and Z with Skill 1, Skill 2, and Skill 3. Job #2 you accomplished A, B, and C while using Upgraded Skill 1, Upgraded Skill 2, and New Skill 4 and New Skill 5. Then in your most recent job, you’ve accomplished D, E, and F while using Masterfully Upgraded Skill 1, Upgraded Skill 4, and New Skill 6. So I can say ah, here’s someone who has progressed in their skills from job to job, obviously taken the time to learn new Skills from job to job, and who has really honed in on Skill 1 and who also possess Upgraded Skill 2 and Upgraded Skill 4.

      That’s the kinda thing that’s appealing to a hiring manager. Just randomly listing out skills and accomplishments without giving a timeline or context doesn’t paint a full picture of your abilities.

    4. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Nooooo. Terrible advice, for the reasons others have said. Aggggghhhh, this teacher. What can we do about it, seriously? Can you show her posts here? This kills me to hear about.

  128. Not Rebee*

    I have just found out that one of my bosses (a few people up the chain from me) has given her notice. Although she is based in a different state and a few people removed from me, we have worked closely together over the last year on a particular project (that is ongoing) and she has worked hard to expand my duties, including a department transfer that is nearly finalized, so that I can take on that project full time, as it’s more in line with my skill-set and qualifications and is also something I would like to be doing. In addition to helping me change my role here at the company, she has managed to get her boss and our head of HR to sign off on a particular title for me – one that would be a stretch because they typically don’t like to give it to people outside of a particular department (even though it most closely aligns with what I am doing in Other Department). I had basically written that aspect off, and last night she told me it was approved.

    While she has not been perfect as a manager (as she needs a lot of managing up and is not especially responsive at the best of times), I am grateful to her assistance and leadership and I want to express it in some tangible way before she leaves. I was thinking a letter… what kinds of nice things would you managers out there want to be told by a former or soon-to-be former employee?

  129. Irish Em*

    Sent off an application today and I just thought I’d share a funny typo in the job spec. “May be required to cover reception from time to tim.” I immediately thought of Monty Python: “There are some who call me… Tim.” Hee!

    I may have shot myself in the foot by being too honest and ticking the box to tell them I do not have direct relevant experience, but, oh well. Worth a shot.

  130. HeyNonnyNonny*

    My coworker resigned earlier this week after only seven months on the job by scheduling an email stating their resignation in minimal terms with no reason as to why they were quitting to our supervisor. They left “for the day” and the email arrived in our supervisor’s inbox half-an-hour later. Of course, I knew why they left so I’ve been questioned and answered the best way I could — with honesty — but what a wild ride.

  131. Pickle*

    Hello! Would anyone like to help me workshop my plan for the new overtime law?

    I have an assistant who currently makes $36,000 a year. She has been doing quite well and deserves a raise, but probably not a 30% one. I would like to bump her salary to around $42,000 a year. With the new overtime law, by my calculation I think she would hit that number if she worked about 5 hours of overtime a week. The nature of her job is that sometimes there’s not much overtime, but sometimes there’s quite a bit during a busy season or if we have weekend events.

    I am thinking of telling her that I’d like to give her a raise to $42,000 a year, but because of the new overtime law we’ll handle it a little differently. I’ll approve her to work up to four (or maybe three?) hours of overtime a week (she can get approval for more if she needs it, as she will likely need to for short periods, but I think it will balance out). We’ll closely track it, and if the end of the year she hasn’t worked enough overtime to hit 42k, we’ll give her an end-of-year bonus to make up the difference.

    Does this plan sound good to people? Are there things I haven’t thought about?

    Thanks in advance!

    1. Dawn*

      “I would like to bump her salary to around $42,000 a year.”

      So… bump her salary up to $42K a year. Don’t be sheisty about this: either you want to pay her $42K a year or you don’t. Right now you’re being all used car salesman about it: “Well, we’d *like* to give you $42K a year but in return you’ll need to pull some overtime, and then maybe at the end of the year if you haven’t hit $42K then we might probably very likely will give you a bonus to make up the difference.” Ok so her choices are work overtime every week or maybe possibly you’ll be magnanimous at the end of the year and give her a bonus, maybe. And I know right now that you are saying yeah, yeah I’ll totally give her a bonus except what happens when you get to the end of the year and there’s no money for bonuses? Also, do you realize that bonus money is taxed *severely* in comparison to salary?

      This is sheisty. Stoppit.

      1. Sibley*

        Yeah, just have her go hourly and she gets overtime pay if she works overtime. Give her a bit of a bump if you think she’s earned it. All this is way too complicated and seems pretty shady.

        Dawn – bonus money is taxed the same as the rest of the salary. What makes it seem worse is many payroll systems withhold taxes as if that amount was the usual salary amount, so it’s a lot more, or many other systems are set up to automatically withhold something like 25-50%. It all gets evened out when you file your tax return though, but since that’s often months later no one connects the two.

        1. Dawn*

          Right should have clarified that bit- it events out when you file your tax returns, but that’s really not helpful if the assistant works really hard all year and then at the end of the year they’re like “Here’s the $4000 to bump you up to a $42K salary!” and she only gets $2K of that.

          I know it’s ultimately taxed the same but it’s *massively* demoralizing to go “Oh yay $3K bonus for working really hard!!!” and then only get half of that in a paycheck or whatever.

        2. Natalie*

          It’s not a payroll systems issue, it’s an IRS requirement. You can either withhold a flat 25% or do something called the “aggregate method”, where they combine your regular paycheck & bonus and then withhold at that rate.

      2. self employed*

        No, I think the issue is that if they do salary at 42k and she does OT, she’ll be over budget. I think OP is trying to squeeze out some OT for “free” (similar to how they could prior to the law change). I don’t see it as inherently shady but clarity would certainly go a long way to helping the employee understand the terms of her work situation and if she’s happy there.

      3. Natalie*

        I overall agree with you. Point of fact, though – bonus money is not taxed any differently than regular salary. It is generally subject to higher *withholding* because of the way the withholding is calculated, but withholding rate and tax rate are not the same thing. Your tax rate at the end of the year is no different if you made $42K in salary or $37K plus a $5K bonus. Taxes that were over-withheld on the bonus end up being refunded when you file your return.

        2. Honeybee*

          Yeah, sure, in theory. In practice it means you get less money when you get the bonus. You may get it back at tax return time, but it still doesn’t necessarily do much for employee morale, which is the issue here.

      4. Pickle*

        I’m a little confused about where the ‘sheisty’ accusations are coming from, but maybe I didn’t explain it properly. She already works a fair amount of overtime, but is currently exempt so doesn’t get additional money for it. I need to set some guidelines for that overtime so that we don’t go way over budget, and I would also like to make sure that she doesn’t feel the need to work insane amounts of overtime to increase her salary– hence the bonus if she doesn’t hit it (which I would happily guarantee in writing). I want to keep her hours and schedule the same as they are currently, but pay her $6,000 a year more than she currently gets paid. The new overtime law means that giving her a base increase to $42,000 would actually end up increasing her a lot more than that. I don’t think this is any sheistier than if I kept her pay rate the same and limited the amount of overtime I’d approve her to work so as to stay within budget– I just also want to guarantee that she gets a certain amount for the year.

        That is a good point about taxes coming out of the bonus. The other option I had considered was just tracking her hours really closely for a few months, and giving her a salary bump if it looked like she wasn’t working enough overtime to hit the 42k range.

        1. nonymous*

          why not do some backwards math to figure out what her hourly rate would be with a $42K salary (current laws)?

          So 42K/(2080 + (1.5 *OT) ) = proposed hourly rate, where OT = number of overtime hours for the year. Then you will have to figure out whether the rate you offer is market rate. Honestly if your proposed hourly rate is less than $17.31 (her current hourly rate assuming no overtime), you will need to reduce her overtime hours. Doing the math myself it looks like if you keep her at current hourly rate, but pay overtime, she will hit the $42K number with just under 4.5 hrs OT per week.

          If you lay this out for her, including a cap and how many hours per week it will take to hit that cap, plus check in periodically it sounds like you’re on the right track. Assuming her current OT load averages >4.5hrs/week, I can’t imagine too many grumbles at getting an up-to-$6K raise for doing less work. And it’s perfectly reasonable to ask her to identify areas where reduced support will have minimal impact.

          What’s more is that you can certainly feel free to “top her off” at the end of the calendar year, but having that convo now is a bit premature. What you might say is that any unused portion of the salary budget will be used to fund the bonus pool, so she is incentivized for being very efficient/conservative with OT usage (but performance matters).

        2. PK*

          It does sound a little car salesman’ish honestly. That’s just my perspective. I’ve never worked a job where my salary may or may not be a certain amount and then I may or may not get bonuses to up it to a certain amount. Personally, I’d split the difference at 39,000 (or a little lower if need be) if you are worried about going over 42k with overtime.

        3. zora*

          this is not what you are asking about, but are you sure she meets the duties test for exempt in the first place? She might have been misclassified, many ‘assistant’ jobs wouldn’t meet the duties test, so she would have to be non-exempt no matter what you pay her.

        4. neverjaunty*

          Don’t do this with a bonus, please. Bonuses are discretionary, as you say, and your offer would basically be “and maybe we’ll pay you more money, or not.”

    2. animaniactoo*

      Primary question: Does she work an average for the year of 5 hours of overtime a year right now? Because if she doesn’t, that can’t be the basis for offering this setup. It’s telling her she needs to put in more time to get to the number you want to pay her, when what you want is to give her a raise for putting in the same amount of time she is already working.

      2. Pickle*

        I’m not sure because we haven’t tracked it, which is sort of the conundrum. She’s been here a little over a year. Most of the year she only really worked overtime when we had weekend or evening events, but we had a very busy season the past few months where she probably worked 8-10 hours of overtime a week. So I’m not totally sure how the time will shake out.

        1. animaniactoo*

          In that case, I would ask her to sit down with you and come to an agreement about how much overtime you both think she works – you say you haven’t tracked it, but I’m sure you can guesstimate how many weekends/evenings she’s worked, and how much it’s been in the past few months. She’s likely to have a better idea than you because she put in the hours and knows when they took her away from her personal time.

          Once you have an agreement about how many hours it is, I would then detract a half hour or so of “expected” so that you’re slightly on the low side – because it’s easier to make it up to her quarterly or at the end of the year than it is to blow your budget and have to juggle that.

          Is there room to do a quarterly bonus to get her up to the salary you’d like to have her at? Because if so, that could make a lot of difference over having to wait an entire year to get the extra pay.

          I also think you need to be very clear between the two of you that the bonus money is under the mantle of “minimum guarantee” but that her actual end-of-year bonus (if you guys do those) would be completely separate from the minimum guarantee pot.

          1. Pickle*

            Thanks, that’s helpful! I think quarterly bonuses might work, or at least mid-year. My concern would be not leaving enough wiggle room for busy periods at the end of the year, if we’ve already done quarterly bonuses. But I think we could figure out how to do that and still leave the room we need.

            1. animaniactoo*

              Yup, you could top her up to have been paid up to 9.5k at the first quarter mark and ~19k at the midyear mark and so on if she hasn’t reached it at that point, with the projection that she’d have ~3k coming in as overtime for end-of-year busy season. It really could do a lot to offset the highs and lows for her in terms of having a relatively steady income over the course of the year.

    3. BRR*

      First, you’re awesome for recognizing her hard work. My only concern if I was her would be hitting $40,000 then not getting the $2,000 which could be solved by putting something in writing.

    4. Honeybee*

      I agree with previous responses that you need to do the work if you want to do this – calculate how much overtime she does on average.

      Right now, assuming 40 hours a week of work for 50 weeks (2 weeks off for vacation) she makes $18/hour. If she stayed at the same base salary and worked an average of 5 additional hours of overtime per week for $27/hour then she’d make an additional $6,750 a year, which would bring her up to $42,750, right around where you want her.

      If you do the 2080 hours thing or 52 weeks then she makes $17.31 an hour. Time and a half is ~$25.97. $25.97 x 5 hours every week over 50 weeks (she’s still not working those two weeks of vacation, even if you use it to calculate her hourly salary) is about $6,491.25 for the year, making her total salary about $42,491.

      If I did my math right (which is arguable lol) then it looks like to get her to $42,000 with overtime you don’t actually need to raise her base salary at all; you just need for her to work an average of 5 overtime hours a week for 50 weeks and pay her time and a half. The math is supported by using nonymous’s equation – 42,000/(2080 + (1.5 *250) ) = ~$17.11, and $17.11 * 2080 = $35,588, which is just below what she makes now.

  132. Leigh*

    Happy Friday! This is a repeat question that I hopefully made easier to parse b/c I was too wordy/confusing before.
    I am still looking for advice. Thank you!

    I received a formal verbal job offer that was reneged on when I was asked for and provided my current salary information *after* receiving the offer.

    A higher up in in HR voided the offer because he felt they would be overpaying me on the basis of my current salary. Neither the hiring manager nor his boss would escalate the issue, and I was never asked outright if I would take a lower salary. Everything just stopped.

    At no point during 7 interviews with 9 people was I asked my salary history. The question only came up *after* I’d been offered the job.

    How do I prevent my current salary from affecting future job prospects? If I make it through several rounds of interviews and am offered a job, and then asked afterward for my current salary, do I decline to give it?

    How do you get past the fear that the hiring manager is actually empowered to offer you the job/that someone higher up can’t do a rug pull again?

    This has left me rather shell shocked as I continue my job search.

    1. Sibley*

      Don’t tell them your current salary. One state just made it illegal even. AAM has posted about this topic recently, find and read those.

      This was a REALLY crappy move from the company though. Honestly, you may have just dodged a bullet. If they thought the salary was too much, they shouldn’t have offered it. And a verbal offer is not the same as a written one – next time get written.

      1. Leigh*

        Thanks! Their policy was “written offer followed background check after verbal offer was accepted.” Very large IT company so I didn’t question that.

    2. animaniactoo*

      Yes, just decline to give it. “I do not feel comfortable giving this information, may I ask why you want it?”

      and then pretty much anything they come back with, you can say “I don’t see how this is relevant to the market rate for this position and would prefer to continue without discussing my current salary”.

      Note that this will turn some people off of you – so there is something of a risk in doing it, but that also gives you a gauge on how that company evaluates prospective and current employees and whether you want to deal with that.

    3. Dawn*

      Realize that a company that puts you through SEVEN INTERVIEWS WITH NINE PEOPLE OH MY GOD I CANNOT EVEN and then pulls the offer because OH MY GOD YOU DARED HOPE FOR MORE MONEY is not a well-organized company and is not a company you wanna work for because unless you’re gonna be on the SVP or Executive team I cannot even begin to wonder why the hell you need to go through SEVEN INTERVIEWS WITH NINE PEOPLE.

      Because honestly, if they were any good they would have looked at your past salary and gone “AWESOME she’s gonna be so happy to get this bumped up salary she’ll be ecstatic to have this job and will do great work and won’t want to leave for a very long time.” Because NINE PEOPLE in SEVEN SEPARATE INTERVIEWS liked you so much they gave you a job offer in the first place.

      NINE PEOPLE!

      SEVEN INTERVIEWS!!!

      That is ABSURD. Don’t let it slow your roll!

      1. Leigh*

        Thanks, Dawn. The funny/sad thing is that it didn’t feel like an overabundance of interviews because everyone I spoke with made me more sure it was a job meant for me and people I wanted to work for and with, so the comeuppance via an HR rep who never met me was just so defeating.

    4. CAA*

      First, it’s extremely unlikely that this would happen again, so you don’t necessarily need to go to extreme lengths to prevent it. However, one thing you can do is have the salary conversation sooner. If they don’t ask you how much you want to earn by the end of your first face-to-face meeting with the hiring manager, then you should ask about their range. (As a hiring manager, I have this conversation during the phone screening if my recruiter hasn’t already done it.)

      As others have said, you don’t have to tell them your current salary. It’s ok to answer that question with “I’m looking for a range of $x to $y.” Most people will take that at face value and not ask again, but if they do, you can say that you’re not comfortable providing that information.

      If you want to make more than they want to pay, they’re allowed to decide that they don’t want to continue talking with you at any point in the process. It’s sucky of them to do it after they’ve tendered an offer, but the way to prevent the process from getting this far is just to have the money talk much earlier.

      1. Leigh*

        Thanks! The hiring manager asked me in the first interview what I was looking for salary-wise because on the basis of my resume, he thought they couldn’t afford me (which is hysterical in hindsight) but he liked what he saw and wanted to speak to me.

        I gave him the correct “dependent on many factors/open to a range” response with a starting number that was the minimum I would accept, and he said point blank, “we’re going to blow right past that,” so I had no reason to think he was speaking out of turn with what HR had agreed to for a range for the position, or that HR would have caveats. He didn’t ask me what I was making now.

        We didn’t discuss money again until they tendered the verbal offer, and it was right at what I’d asked for as a minimum, with a bonus structure on the back end and much better healthcare than I have now.

        1. CAA*

          It sounds like you did have the conversation and they did know what you wanted. So they actually gave you a number that was in your range and then they withdrew the offer and cited the money as the reason? Wow! That is just very weird, and I can’t imagine it happening again with a different employer.

          From your original description I thought they either didn’t include a number in the verbal or else it was way below what you asked for and they withdrew when you tried to negotiate. With this new info, I’m inclined to think there might be something else going on, such as sudden and massive budget cuts or some major internal miscommunication over this position. I think they just didn’t even know what to do once they’d given you the wrong number and handled the whole thing gracelessly. I’m sorry and hope you find something much better very soon.

          1. Snorlax*

            As I understand it, they knew her desired range at the outset and made her an offer in that range. Then after making the offer, they found out her salary at her current job is much lower than what they offered. So they suddenly felt like their offer would be “overpaying” her and withdrew the offer. The whole thing is crazy. They felt she was worth what they offered; her worth didn’t magically change just because her current salary is lower.

    5. persimmon*

      I agree with CAA, you should stop worrying about whether this specific thing will happen again because it likely won’t. Making an offer and then withdrawing it is pretty unusual. However, it is likely that some other weird and unfair thing will happen while you’re job-searching. It might suck, but it seems like being resilient and able to focus on the next potential opportunity (without worrying too much about what didn’t work out) is one of the most important skills in a job search.

      1. Leigh*

        Thanks! I’m 45 and have been working since 13, so I thought I’d seen it all in craptastic job search things, but this was a new one.

        1. Chriama*

          Quite frankly, I suspect this policy could run afoul of discrimination laws. They’re pulling offers from people based on the salary from their previous jobs which were unrelated to the company in any way? Can you say ‘disparate impact’. They were fine offering you this salary until they found out what you made before? I don’t say this lightly, but I think you should talk to an employment lawyer. Maybe you don’t have a case, maybe it wouldn’t be worth pursuing even if you did, but maybe the EEOC can come andsmack some sense into these $#!tty morons.

        2. Chriama*

          **I tried to comment before and it disappeared. If it’s in moderation, sorry for the double-post.

          TL,DR – I honestly believe this is an EEOC complaint waiting to happen. And if you have the time or energy for it, I would talk to an employment lawyer. Not even to sue, but to find if there’s any way to get a formal reprimand issued to the company. They *pulled* a job offer from you because they said your previous salary was too low. No concerns related to your work experience or ability to do the job, but just that this is more money than a different, unrelated company was giving you previously. This is *highly* likely to cause disparate impact among women and minorities. There is no business justification for such behaviour. If it’s better for your well-being to let it go then please do so, and I hope you find an even better job very soon. But reading this made me super po’d, and if you feel like doing something about it then please talk to someone. I don’t think this is ok.

          1. Leigh*

            Thank you! As I never got any of that in writing and was only told in a phone call, it’s a he said/she said thing. I am still considering whether to at least post on Glassdoor to save someone else the trouble. Judging by their HR page, the position was never filled and is still categorized as “under review.” This all transpired six weeks ago, so the HR snafu must have held up placing either of the other two short-listed candidates as well. I sincerely appreciate the feedback and the empathy. It’s been a bitter pill.

    6. BRR*

      This is not the norm. It’s really odd they asked after giving you an offer and incredibly awful to change it. It’s unlikely someone would ask to see it after an offer so I wouldn’t worry and if they do I’d decline. If you have an offer it should be much easier to deflect.

      I’d also post on glassdoor about this because it’s so incredibly shitty.

  133. Allison*

    The good news is that I’ve managed to generate 3 leads in my job search. The bad news is the lead I’m most excited about went dark on me in the middle of picking a time to meet last Friday. He accepted my connection request on LinkedIn but didn’t respond to the message I sent him after that. I want to think he’s just really, really busy and I’m going to try to hit him up one last time next week, but I’m really annoyed. Who goes from “I’d love to bring you in” to radio silence like this? I know it happens all the time, it happens to me every time I need a new job, and I know why people drop communication (busy, or changed minds and doesn’t wanna deal with the fallout, whatever), but it’s awful.

    I totally blew the phone screen for a job I really wanted, so I’m trying to drop that one from my mind.

    Thankfully, yesterday I was able to confirm I was still in the running for two other positions. They’re not perfect, but they’re better than having to move back with my parents, and I’ll be interested to see how I could grow in those companies. But waiting to hear back from those two companies is hell. I would really like to see some promising movement on at least one of them by Thanksgiving, and I’ve told myself I don’t get to panic until next month, but waiting is hard, y’all!

    1. SeekingBetter*

      Yay on generating 3 leads on your job search! I agree that the wait sucks. How did you blow the phone screen? Is it the answers you gave? Were you nervous?

  134. Anon Today*

    Well, it’s official– I’m in Escrow for my first home! My question is this: How do you handle housewarming with well-intentioned coworkers?

    Some background: I am mid-20s and the youngest in the office. My coworkers all treat me well but also give life advice because they want me to succeed. They are all INVESTED in my house hunt, to the point of wanting to hear about every property, wanting to see pictures of every property, and wanting me to have a housewarming party and invite the company (!!!). Like I said, well-meaning, but I’m not one for big parties (especially not hosting). Another coworker/Director mentioned that he invited the president of the company to his wedding (in lieu of attending, the president gave them thousands of dollars worth of things on their registry). I understand in that case it’s a respect thing to invite the VIP of the company to your event, but it feels weird. Not only that, I only really like/tolerate a few people here, and it would be rude not to invite everyone (since one of the well-meaning coworkers has a big mouth and it’ll get out). On the other hand, getting all of my new appliances paid for and stuff would save me a lot of money…

    1. Pineapple Incident*

      I would tell them your family is against the idea of a big housewarming party, and just not tell them when you throw one with friends. It just sounds like there’s too much potential to cross boundaries here, and even if they’d give you gifts it’s probably not worth the trouble of making them back off later.

      1. Anon Today*

        I’m actually a single home-owner (wow that feels weird to say just as Escrow opened today) so there’s no family excuse (which they also know). I also feel squicked out about them knowing where I live. I’ve got a meeting with HR later to ask about etiquette of these things as we’re a fairly close-knit community.

        But you’re right, too much boundary crossing. If I invite anyone from work, I think it would just be my small team of 5 (plus president because VIP thing).

    2. Paige Turner*

      I feel like weddings and housewarming parties are pretty different in terms of receiving gifts and that kind of thing, so without knowing more, it seems unlikely that you’d have people offering to buy you appliances etc :) (Although HUM if you end up with a spare dishwasher!) If you don’t want to host a big party, I’d just say something like, “Oh, we’re so busy painting and unpacking that we’re in no position to have guests yet” with a big smile- in a few weeks, they will most likely forget and stop asking.
      Congrats on the new place!

      1. Anon Today*

        Appliances can mean toasters and coffee makers, right? That’s the right term for it? Small appliances? The Director/coworker said he wanted to get me a nice toaster or coffee maker for my place, and confirmed that the Pres. will ask for a list/registry and buy some stuff from that if invited. It’s all confusing, this office etiquette, in regards to outside of work functions…

        And thank you! I can’t wait to get my hands on it and make it my own!

        1. Paige Turner*

          Man, I’ve never heard of people having a registry for buying a home! But yeah, I would call those things “small appliances.” If you want to have a small party but downplay the housewarming thing, maybe you could have a holiday open house in late December. I would be at a bit of a loss for what to do in your position, myself. Good luck!

          1. Anon Today*

            I guess it makes sense if you have a large family/group of close friends that want to help you out by getting things you don’t have. Escrow won’t close for at least another 30-45 days, so if I did have a housewarming thing I would do it well after the holidays. The holidays are busy enough, especially at work, but adding moving and painting/decorating/updating? Sheesh, I’ll be lucky to survive! Lol

            Thanks for the advice though! I’ll see what HR says later today about this, too.

          2. nonymous*

            I know! Anon Today’s Pres. sounds more generous than my relatives at our wedding. (We got coasters from hubby’s sis).

          3. Red Reader*

            I made a “home buying registry” at Bed Bath and Beyond just because after the move date, you get an extra discount on everything unpurchased from your registry :P They don’t need to know it’s unpurchased because I never told anyone else about the registry.

    3. Anon Today*

      Update: HR says that a housewarming isn’t necessary, especially since the thought of everyone knowing where I live bothers me. They said that IF I did put on a housewarming/open house, then I should be sure to include in the invitations that this is something keep quiet about because I would not be inviting everyone, also to only invite the small team I work for and CC the Pres. (because she is out all the time anyway, there’s nothing to lose by doing such; also my desk is closest to the Pres.’s office so it would be weird if she were the last to know tbh).

      So it’s a little bit of mixed advice, but I have a little bit of a clearer head about it now. My agent just called to let me know that my escrow will close before Christmas, too, which was not what I wanted to hear but I’ll make it work.

    4. Chaordic One*

      This is new to me. I was once invited to a housewarming where guests were asked to contribute to buying a new washer for the couple buying their house. I thought it a bit tacky, but went along with it.

  135. SeekingBetter*

    One of the places I worked for in the past has just permanently closed. Do I have to indicate the organization is closed on my resume and/or employment application? And how would I indicate it is closed if it is on my materials?

    1. Paige Turner*

      I worked somewhere that went out of business while I worked there. If I fill out an app that asks for address or phone number, I write “out of business/closed” or enter 000-0000. If you haven’t already, make sure you still can contact a supervisor from that employer and look for former coworkers on Linkedn.

    2. Sadsack*

      I think you would note it in your cover letter, not your resume. It is the reason you find yourself looking for employment now. Also, reference it in your application, as Paige suggested.

    3. CAA*

      There is no need to change your resume at all. Continue listing the company name and the dates when you worked there.

      If you fill out an application that asks for phone numbers or addresses, just put “out of business” or “not available”. You would still list the company name and your supervisor’s name on an application, and you could still use former mangers / supervisors from that time as references.

    4. Allison*

      Don’t worry about putting it on your application. If they ask for the contact info, you can say it closed, and put N/A or “not applicable” if needed.

  136. Hypnotist Collector*

    I’m in that moment where I feel I have no choice left but to give notice without another job to go to, but I’m terrified I won’t find anything. Anyone else successfully navigated that?

    1. Confused Teapot Maker*

      Yes. However, I suspect my situation was a little bit niche and probably different to yours – I was changing careers and going from an industry, and a job, with a two month notice periods into one where short tenures in roles and the phrase “Can you start tomorrow?” is not wholly uncommon. I’d been interviewing for a while but my lack of flexibility on start times was clearly a problem.

    2. Leatherwings*

      I’ve had to do it twice In the past two years. I was laid off once, and quit without something lined up once (because of a stupid commitment system, but whatever).

      Both times I managed to find something within the month, but that’s also because A) I am at a point in my career where I still have a lot of options. I have quite a bit of relevant and transferable experience (lots of admin work, which I love) but I’m not so senior that I am limited in what I want to take. and B) I got my butt in gear after leaving both those jobs. I applied to things all day everyday until I started getting interviews. At one point I was taking up to six interviews per day. It was stressful, but the result was that I got something quick. Good luck!

    3. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I did it recently, sort of. I talked to my boss in early August about being unhappy and starting to look (at his urging), and he basically told me to leave. He was nicer than that, and I got severance. However, I was in a really, really tough situation– 10 years’ experience in a field that is practically non-existent in this metro area with no local professional network. I threw myself into networking and tried to find a fit for my skills in one of the industries that’s growing here (digital advertising/marketing), but every interview came up with nothing. Then I happened to meet someone who knew someone and… I’m starting in a similar field to my own in a few weeks.

      I’m lucky. Overall, it didn’t take me that long, but man, it’s been rough. I figured it might take me 8 months or more, though, so prepare yourself mentally for that possibility. And good luck!

  137. Regina 2*

    How would you define critical thinking skills in the workplace? What are some examples?

    I’ve talked here before that I think my being passive and lacking confidence are some of the reasons I won’t succeed in management, but I also feel like I lack critical thinking skills, and I find that most worrisome of all. I’m not even sure I know what these skills look like. I like routine and rote tasks, which don’t seem like things creative thinkers and problem solvers enjoy. And yet people seem to think I have so much capacity (based on feedback from colleagues, and how previous employers have been trying to get me to come back to work for them for years, from different organizations), so I need to figure out how to sharpen them and better understand what they are.

    I worry that I don’t have critical thinking skills, because I get very deep in the weeds on low-level tasks, and don’t take into account other parts of the business, let alone what’s happening in the local market and national/international economy and beyond.

    How do you develop strong critical thinking skills, and how do you know you have them?

    1. fposte*

      That’s a really interesting question. It does sound like you may have more in this area than you realize, based on the feedback you’re getting, but that maybe you lose it in the crunch time (which I don’t think is all that uncommon). If so, that’s not a lack of skill but just a mental workflow thing.

      I’d try developing a practice of interrogation. What you might consider doing is creating a checklist–something like “How does this task relate to the unit? the company? the international economy? What goals is it achieving? In what ways is this a good way to achieve those goals and in what ways does it fall short of desirable?”

    2. animaniactoo*

      The purest definition I can give you of critical thinking skills is the ability to see or receive information and then examine it for logical flaws and benefits. How that information might be manipulated or targeted to have you perceive it in a specific way. So that you can then work through your own thoughts/feelings about it and come to conclusions that are much more definitively “yours” than what you have been *told*.

      An example that I use frequently is media presentation of timelines. Say something happened on Thursday, Sept 29th. It’s now Monday, Oct 2nd. Things that are being presented as fresh and important will be described as “4 days ago”. Things that are being presented because they can’t be ignored but are trying to quiet hype or uproar over will be presented as “last week” – and if it’s a few more days and they can get away with it, might even be “last month”.

      One way to work on stuff like this is to take information that you hear – oh, about anything – and then question it. If it sounds great, what might the drawbacks be? If it sounds awful, what might the benefits be? See if you can do some research on it – the more you research and analyze, the more you come across your own “traps” of where you tend to believe too easily or overlook potential trains of thought.

  138. Pineapple Incident*

    Some days I really need more out of my job search than I’m getting. I’ve readjusted my expectations time and again, and am more focused and precise than ever in my communications with companies I hear from, but I’m not making a lot of progress and my job is wearing on me so much. My clinical area’s boss keeps thinking she’s told me to do something important, forgetting to tell me, then holding me responsible when it’s not done. I can’t manage up with her, because she takes it as an affront, and I need her flexibility for some time off I have coming in the next couple months in case I have to rearrange things to interview (she doesn’t know I’m searching, and can’t).

    Silver lining- I think I made it through a phone screen for a job I wouldn’t love, but pays double what I make now ($12 hourly) and would not be a bad place to work. It also seems like they’re really trying to get the right fit to the right team(s), because they’re filling 8 similar positions across several departments.

  139. Swamp Thing*

    Anyone who has read this far down, want to confirm my fears/calm me down? (I changed my usual commenting name for a bit more anonymity here.)
    I work in fed contracting and I’m super worried (among other things) about Congress not passing a new CR in December, and about the federal government grinding to a halt in the next few months. Shutdown=eventually, I don’t get paid. I was planning on starting to job search again in the spring but should I move that up? Am I better off in my current job than somewhere new where I’ll have the least seniority should layoffs happen? I was in grad school during the last recession and it was still tough. I’d like to change fields to something more “do-gooder” TBH but it took me ages to get out of retail into this job and I’m worried if this would now be a bad time to make a career move.

    1. Sibley*

      Starting to look for a job doesn’t mean you automatically lose your current job. Why not start now? Can’t hurt, might help.

      2. Future Analyst*

        Agreed. Looking does not equal getting an offer, and getting an offer doesn’t mean you have to accept. Poke around and see what you can find while it’s not urgent.

    2. CAA*

      Government shutdowns are definitely scary for contractors. The financial consequences can be severe, since you not only go unpaid for the duration (or are forced to use accumulated PTO if you have it); but you can also lose benefits that are tied to your company’s finances, such as 401K matches, profit sharing, bonuses, etc. While Federal employees have always gotten back pay after a shutdown, contractors don’t have any way to recoup the lost income. The best hedge against this risk is to have at least a month’s worth of living expenses saved up that you can access at a moment’s notice.

      All that said, I don’t think there’s a shutdown looming this year. Think of the optics of a Congress causing massive financial hardship for several millions of people right before the holidays. The party in power will stay in power come January so they have no excuse they can make to their constituents for failing to do their jobs in December.

    3. Maya Elena*

      Unless you’re in the butts-in-seat (“staffing”) type of contracting work, you can expect opportunities to dry up I think. As you probably know, the contacting pot is shrinking, and big conglomerates (Lockheed, etc.) Are grabbing at every straw they can… Unless you belong to an underrepresented small business, which is another animal entirely.

      So I’d have a logner-term exit strategy for sure, unless you have a special reason to feel I dispensable.

  140. Anxa*

    I’m looking for a job in retail as my current city has a lot of shopping centers. I don’t have any corporate retail experience. I have worked in a retail store as a teen

    The thing is, it was kind of illegal in hindsight and for my family business. Technically I think they messed up on the labor law as we were there since it opened and had different chores (always voluntary, we got bored of coloring in the back office) throughout the years. On the one hand, I feel like I shouldn’t even list it because I have no objective references, it’s over 10 years old, I wasn’t working for a boss, the product was pretty specialized and is no longer profitable for most small businesses, and it wasn’t at all corporate.

    On the other hand, it’s my only retail experience and I spent 10 years there from childhood to adolescence, when I essentially helped manage the store.

    Should I leave it off my resume? Should it leave it off my “complete employment (including volunteer/military/extracurricular) history” forms? The business has been dissolved for over 10 years, there’s no way my parents could get in trouble for it now, could they?

    2. Paige Turner*

      It doesn’t sound like anything that could cause problems for your family, but it also doesn’t seem like relevant experience at this point. Most corporate retail hiring managers are looking for someone who will show up as scheduled and who has decent interpersonal skills. If you can demonstrate in an interview that you can do these things, you should be fine- just be prepared to send in a lot of applications and IME, following up in person does work for retail/food service jobs (unlike for non-retail postions). I’d leave the family business off any forms and just focus on more recent experience.

    3. Sophie Winston*

      1 – There are exemptions in the labor laws for children working for their parents in a family business (assuming you were in the US) so it may not have been illegal.

      2 – If it was all when you were underage and was generally informal (not on the official payroll), it’s iffy to include on your resume. However, it could be a good sentence or two in a cover letter to demonstrate why you are interested in retail / know what you are getting into, and there might be an experience in there you could use for a behavioral interview question.

  141. TotesMaGoats*

    This is the second time in a week that a thing has happened. And I’m sort of at a loss of what to do.

    My work BFF and someone who is senior to us but to whom neither of us report but we support the things this person runs DO NOT get along. Part of it is that the senior person has horribly managed their direct reports and their interactions with both of us (i.e. completely unprofessional behavior that probably would’ve cost people jobs elsewhere). Major, major personality clash. And senior person has, at times, gone behind BFF’s back in some mean ways. Senior person isn’t a shining example by any means.

    However, due to all the negative interactions work BFF seems to get really charged about anything to do with senior person. Everything is this weirdly professional confrontation. And it leaves me exhausted. I want to say to BFF, to just stop and be straightfoward. Ask senior person what’s really going on behind certain requests or situations. I want to say to senior person to stop being so secretive and uncooperative. I also want to bang my head against the wall. This place is not healthy. Text book dysfunctional work place. So, I understand. And work BFF will probably be out the door by the first of the year. Interview scheduled for next week, so I’m probably owed a pedicure soon. So, it might all end.

    I think the frustration for me is that work BFF is my friend. An actual friend. We’ve seen each other through some really rough stuff here. I’ll be very lonely when she’s gone. So, for the short time I know she’s here, I want to keep the peace. I also know that if I side too closely with work BFF that senior person will make my life a living hell once BFF is gone. If they both reported to me, I know exactly what I’d say.

    Also, I’m looking hard for a new job too.

    1. Marcy Marketer*

      I’m sorry this is happening to you. Something similar happened to me a year or so ago, and my workplace improved dramatically once my work BFF left. She just couldn’t understand that she was egging the senior person on or engaging with her in a way that made the senior person react terribly.

      What can you say or do? I don’t know, other than be Switzerland. Listen to your BFF vent, but don’t take any sides, especially not visibly. Try not to hang out or seem too close to your BFF at work. Be sympathetic, but don’t agree and try to be as pleasant to the senior person as possible.

  142. animaniactoo*

    The biggest chaos-creator for my department was fired last week while I was out on vacation. In many ways it’s long overdue, so I am dying to find out what that final straw was. Nobody is talking yet.

    This is someone who when told he couldn’t have something by the person in charge of managing the relationship with an external company reached out to somebody he knew at that company to try to do an endrun around to getting what he wanted. He agreed to follow product line guidelines and then continuously took information (to the point that we started to actively hide our work) to try and explore and force opportunities he was told couldn’t happen (yet or ever). He overpromised several times and underdelivered to the point that “very big opportunity” has become an eyeroll catchphrase when talking about something he was working on, and the owner of the company stopped listening to him so easily when he’d go over the product line person’s head to try and get what he wanted. He tried to (or did) do an endrun around the person in charge to get product line information (that was not applicable to his field and nobody would have cared if he had it if he wasn’t abusing the hell out of it) so frequently that we had a multiple-dept tactical meeting to create specific guidelines for stonewalling him and referring him back to her and the need to enforce doing so. That was after having been called to heel several times and agreeing to respect her position and her authority.

    So… I’m just figuring whatever happened had to have been really flagrant to bring all of this to a head. And therefore I’m itching with curiosity to know what it was.

    1. LCL*

      I love to speculate on real world situations with little data. So, my wild-@$$ guess is he tried his end run routine around a male boss this time.
      Congratulations on his leaving! But the chaos people are like hydras, when one leaves you may end up with 2 more…

  143. Cath in Canada*

    I had a new and fun experience at work this week: managing a couple of social media accounts during a major event (coordinated release of a collection of scientific papers and data from an international research consortium I’m part of).

    I fell into the social media role by default – I’m the only member of our Comms team who knew how to use Twitter, albeit from my personal account only – and have had to pick everything up on the fly. We’re not usually super active on Twitter, and we only get a handful of notifications most days, so this part of my job only takes up an hour or two most weeks. Yesterday, by comparison, was just a big blur of activity, with multiple notifications per minute for hours on end. I didn’t get time to do anything else but respond to notifications and log media coverage all day. It’s been really good fun, but man, I’m glad every day isn’t like that – a little too frantic for my taste! I salute those of you who do this as your regular job!

  144. Jane D'oh!*

    Pack mule question.

    I’ve recently had a change in position that now allows occasional telework, so I was switched from a desktop to a laptop. I have to lug it back and forth every day, and due to liability issues I cannot leave it in my car. I used to do errands on my way home on weeknights, but dragging this heavy thing around with me is just not working. I’m a short, slight woman, and by the time I’m finished, the muscles in my shoulder and back are burning. I’ve ended up limiting my errands to weekends, which is a total pain and wastes gas since I drive right past the commercial district on my commute.

    Other than becoming a power lifter so I don’t struggle with the weight of my belongings…any ideas?

      2. animaniactoo*

        Yup, there are several versions on the market specifically targeted for laptop transpo. Some of them create a combo “purse/bag” situation that’s easy to deal with. You can also do a rolling backpack and use a laptop sleeve to cushion it in the bag which will allow you more flexibility if you want to carry it part of the time.

    2. Emilia Bedelia*

      Maybe this is a silly question but…. do you have to take it back and forth every single day? Can you plan your telework evenings so that you can leave it at work on days you’re not planning on working from home?

      If not, look into getting a backpack- if you think it’s not quite professional looking at work, get a small nice looking laptop sleeve with a handle to carry around the office, and use the heavier-duty backpack for when you’re out and about.

    3. DCGirl*

      I have to carry mine back and forth, too (they don’t get us laptop locks for our desks — the expectation is that you take it home). I just lock my bag in the trunk of my car when I make stops on the way home.

    4. Annie Moose*

      May or may not help, depending on how heavy the laptop alone is, but try to cut your laptop bag down to JUST the laptop. If you can’t do that, then at least try to do that when you need to bring the laptop in to stores and stuff with you… even taking out the power cord/brick and leaving that in your car might help a little.

      A backpack could definitely make it easier, but if you can’t/don’t want to use one, then just remembering to switch shoulders regularly can help. If you wait until your shoulder actually hurts to switch shoulders, it’s a lot worse IMO.

    5. NW Mossy*

      I’m a short woman too, and Osprey’s “Celeste” backpack is my solution to the same problem, with the addition of workout gear and a lunch every day. It’s engineered to fit a woman’s frame so it’s much easier on the shoulders than unisex bags, and I can load it up with quite a lot of weight before it starts to feel heavy. I got it at REI, but Amazon sells it for significantly less (as I later found out). I believe it’s available in mostly neutral colors, so it can work for office use a little better.

    6. JustaTech*

      If you’re using a single-strap bag, you might try a backpack-style bag. They don’t look as good, but they’re a whole heck of a lot easier for carrying heavy things.

    7. Evergreen*

      See if you can take the battery out and leave it at work. Keep your power pack at home (then at least you’re not lugging the battery or power thing back and forth)

  145. Foot Solider*

    I have been at my company (nonprofit) for 4 years in several different positions/departments, but it no longer seems there is anywhere for my position to grow. My company has hired several new people in the last year and they keep hiring at a high level only (picture a company having more vice presidents than it does departments/managers). This has led to a lot of jockeying for power among the new employees, meanwhile people like me are stuck with no growth with constant new opinions that lead to deadlines being missed because one new person must make their voice heard. I get positive reviews each year, but am told because of the new people something I use to manage will now be handled with someone else. I have been told more than once that these are growing pains and we will make adjustments, but I don’t even know how to believe this anymore. Is this common at other companies? How do others handle this? Is it just time for me to just say bye and move on?

    1. animaniactoo*

      Here’s the thing – change may come to your company, but it may come too late to do *you* any good. That’s part of their growing pains. Good people are going to leave to pursue other opportunities, because the company is focused on something different right now that doesn’t allow them to make retaining those people a priority. Something which may validly be more important than retaining a particular employee (or 3 or 4).

      So they primary questions to evaluate are whether you believe the change will come soon enough for you to feel it was worth sticking it out to wait for it and whether you’d regret not moving on if change doesn’t happen when you thought it might. Whether you’re comfortable with where you’re at right now, for right now. If the answer is no you don’t believe it, or yes you’d regret it, and no you’re not comfortable, then it’s probably time to move on regardless of whether the opportunity really would show up there later.

  146. Menacia*

    This is a vent, work is so overwhelming for me that I’m not even looking forward to the holidays. I will most likely be working even on the days I’ve taken off because our director and managers have AGAIN planned poorly so we now have simultaneously occurring projects that have to be used and useful before the end of the year. I am only one person, and can only do so much. I have pushed back and asked that I do not get any more work that is not related to the projects that are time sensitive for the rest of the year (which, when I break it down is only about 20 days!) This just really sucks azz…

  147. sy*

    I was told by my boss today that how promotions work in our department is that you do the work that you want to be promoted for, and eventually, a few months down the line, that will be recognized and you will get the promotion. Is this normal? There are a couple things that seem amiss to me:

    1. How do you get to do the job you want to be promoted for? How do you get that work assigned to you since it’s not your job?
    2. It seems unfair to expect people to work at a promoted job and not getting paid for it for months
    3. This feels like I’m just being strung along and pushes me off when I’m asking about career development.
    4. To the above point I was told to ‘just keep working hard, keep your head down and it will pay off in dividends sometime next year’

    Another department has made it clear that they have a spot opening in February and they are interested in me if I’m interested in them. The conversation with my boss today was about trying to feel where I am in terms of professional development with them. I doubt I’ll get promoted before February in my current department. Any advice for me? Move to the next department?

    1. Marcy Marketer*

      I would say that in some companies, you certainly get the job you want by doing it or showing you’re capable. That’s how it’s always worked for me, anyway. I was hired as a teapot maker, but when I arrived, I put in place a teapot strategy, started providing analytics in my monthly meetings with my manager, and created a strategy. When my boss promoted me, she said that I had always done my new title– that they hired me expecting me to be a teapot maker, but when I came in I did the job of a teapot strategist or whatever (this analogy is falling apart!).

      At my first job, I was brought in for filing but there was a need for someone to do mass emails and web content, and I just started doing it, so that’s how I got into marketing :) I just said, “Do you want me to do that for you?” when my boss looked busy, and he said yes, so!

    2. Temperance*

      I would move to that other department if it’s indeed work you want to do.

      The whole “do the job to prove yourself” thing always strikes a nerve wtih me, but because my former JerkBoss used to say that and it was just a cover because we weren’t ever getting promoted. (For those of you who have been following my comments, this is the same woman who used to snap up all the holidays and make the rest of us fight for them Hunger Games style.)

    3. Hypnotist Collector*

      Yep, seems to be the new normal. You have to audition without any increase in pay or improvement in title.

    4. NW Mossy*

      February’s really not that long from now. If you think it’ll be a good fit and would still be interested even if you magically got promoted in your current department tomorrow, signal your interest.

    5. AdAgencyChick*

      Re, #2, here’s why it may not be unfair: They’re trying you out, whereas if they hired from the outside they might be able to hire someone who already has experience *in that role*.

      But I’d want to hear a concrete plan of “prove yourself for X months in this position and you’ll be promoted with a raise at that time.”

      1. neverjaunty*

        Yes. Absent a concrete plan, it’s “Great! We got somebody to do a higher-level job for the same pay and no increased hours.”

  148. Mimmy*

    Just thought of something else but we’re already at almost 900 comments, so hopefully this gets seen –

    So during my Voc Rehab assessment a while ago, one of the instructors recommended the Strengths Finder assessment. I know assessments are somewhat frowned upon here, but I enjoy doing them, so I decided to get the book and take the test.

    Two of the themes that came about pretty much reaffirmed some of the things I’ve always known: That I love to learn and that I am an information junkie. I’ve always wanted to be a subject matter expert, and this proves it! :P

    That’s kinda why I’m hoping this job at my university comes to fruition because it sounds like part of it involves assisting students with disability accommodations, which would likely require me to learn about such accommodations and relevant topics and use that growing knowledge to help students and/or other populations.

    I used to do Information & Referral, which similarly involves acquiring a lot of concrete knowledge, but I ended up getting really overwhelmed. I really hope that doesn’t happen again if I do get a similar position. The last job was primarily taking live calls plus some callbacks and emails. Much too much :(

    1. Emilia Bedelia*

      Are two of strengths Learner/Input? Those are both in my top 5 as well- it sounded familiar! I had to do the Strength Finder assessment for my job and I actually like the concept a lot- I think it’s a lot more practical and accurate than MBTI or Enneagram or whatever, and really did help me reflect on what I’m actually good at. Translating those strengths to my job description was helpful in identifying things that I already know I like, and understanding why I don’t like certain other parts of my job.

    2. Mimmy*

      Just to clarify for those who have followed my posts – I’m still interested in doing some of the other things I’ve mentioned before. I’m just looking for a starting point now just to even get my foot back in the door after all these years of volunteering (and soul-searching!).

    3. BRR*

      I’m not sure if you’re looking for fields that might be a match so I am sorry if this is annoying, unsolicited advice but I would look into prospect research. I’m biased because it’s what I do but loving to learn and being an information junkie are great skills to have in this field. You have to learn about a variety of industries because you’ll be researching people in all of them and managing a lot of information.

  149. Jen RO*

    My boss (who lives in another country) visited the local office this week and I spent 4-6 hours a day in meetings with him or related to him. Of course, I then had to work late to finish all the stuff I already had scheduled for this week… I live in the future (aka Eastern Europe), so it’s 10 PM here, and I’ve only managed to get home an hour ago. I am sooo tired.

    On the bright side, at least one of the 4 people we interviewed this week seems to be really, really good, and a friend of mine also vouched for her! Only 8 more positions to fill…

  150. Persephone Mulberry*

    I just agreed to a 3:45 phone call and now I’m kicking myself. We’re getting our first real snow of the year and I just know traffic is going to be extra stupid by the time I leave.

  151. Marcy Marketer*

    I’m so late so I will probably get no comments! Oh well, here it goes.

    My dream job would be to work for a major corporation. However, relocation is not an option for me, and many of the companies I’d like to work for are not in my area. My job is internet-based, so there’s really no need to come to work to do my job.

    A major corporation recently reached out to me about a potential fit, but when I said relocation wasn’t an option, they responded that the position could be remote. This is not in the job listing. So my question is: Is it common to not list remote options for larger companies? If I saw a listing on one of my dream companies websites, could I apply and just note that I’d need to be remote in the cover letter? Any guidance on this would be much appreciated!

    1. CAA*

      It sounds like the company that reached out to you is very interested in your qualifications and willing to try the position as remote. I wouldn’t use this to conclude anything about any other position with any other company though.

      1. Marcy Marketer*

        The internal recruiter said that the job is listed (on her end I’m assuming, since it isn’t listed that way on the website) as open to remote.

    2. Sami*

      If they said fine I would take them at their word. I am toward the end of (hopefully) getting a new job…if you saw the posting is said City B and the hiring manager likes that I am 1,000 east of him in City Y.

    3. MegaMoose, Esq.*

      I don’t know if it’s common or not in your line of work (face-time is pretty key in my profession), but it seems like it wouldn’t hurt to ask given this experience.

    4. NaoNao*

      I don’t know how common it is but I think that if your resume and experience is strong enough and the job is web based and portable/mobile, you can certainly *ask*. I think that companies sometimes decline to list jobs as remote for a couple reasons:
      They don’t want to look scammy or shady “Work from home making 500$ an hour!!”
      The job description language was thought up by someone who is not the hiring manager, it’s an old template, or it’s a rigid template that doesn’t reflect the full reality
      The technical policy is no, or it’s “up the manager” but super stars/niche workers/grandfathered in are all considerations

    5. Lemon Zinger*

      It’s definitely common to not list that, because they don’t want a flood of applications from people who will only work remotely and aren’t really qualified.

      If they’ve offered that option to you, GO FOR IT! They obviously like you, so what do you have to lose?

      1. Marcy Marketer*

        Oh I am definitely going for it! But if I don’t get it, I’m wondering how to apply to those other companies without wasting both of our time. Also I’m a little afraid of applying, getting a phone screening, and them being like “Why would you apply to this position if it’s in Timbuktu and you won’t live there?”

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          Yeah, I wouldn’t just start applying for positions based in places you’re not willing to move that don’t say they’re open to remote work … because while some may be, the majority won’t be. If you do decide to try it though, definitely say in your cover letter that you’d need to be remote and would like to talk to them if that’s something they’re open to. You don’t want to spring it on them in the phone interview.

  152. AnotherAnony*

    When filling out applications, when it asks you to list all employment for the past 10 years, do you have to include everything? If they want you to list temp jobs even, do you have to? I know we sometimes talk about leaving things off, but when it is required, do you still have to?

    1. Leatherwings*

      If it’s a formal application that asks you to list all employment then yeah, you have to list *all* employment

    2. MegaMoose, Esq.*

      Leaving stuff off of a resume is fine, but yeah, if an application asks for your employment history for a set period of time, you need to include everything. That said, don’t worry if you don’t recall exact dates or other details. I’ve filled out tons of these kind of applications and they get that you might not remember the name of the supervisor you had at that temp job seven years ago, or whatever.

    4. BRR*

      The talk about leaving things off is usually for a resume, which is a tool to show why you’re qualified for a position so you want to show all of things that support you. An application that asks for all jobs in the past ten years is asking for all of your jobs in the past ten years and usually has something about confirming you were truthful in filling it out.

      Is there a specific reason you don’t want to?

  153. Anononymous For this*

    Late in the day but hoping I can get some advice…

    Our holiday lunch at work is coming up soon, and as part of it, they do a 50/50 raffle, where tickets are sold for $1 each and then half the proceeds are donated to charity. The tradition is that the winner donate their winnings back to the charity as well. They do notice if you don’t buy a ticket, and people are encouraged to buy $20+ worth, making the pot often several hundred or even a thousand dollars in most years.

    This year is problematic for me for two reasons. One, the selected charity is one I’d absolutely never support due to its inefficiency with donations and high overhead costs, and two, well — I am in a bit of a financial bind. My partner lost their job and UI will not kick in for several weeks, plus we had some severe and unexpected expenses. If I won, that money would really help. It would make me able to pay off two credit cards I had to put those expenses on. I realize I am putting the cart before the horse, but ugh.

    My thinking is to just buy one ticket and cross my fingers.

    1. Marcy Marketer*

      I personally dislike raffles– I feel awkward winning and I don’t like spending my money on gambling. I would probably not buy any tickets, but that might be a personal thing.

    2. CAA*

      I think you should just say “I’m sorry but I’m not able to buy a ticket this year.” If they press or you feel a need to explain further, add something like “finances are a little tight right now.”

      Declining to buy a ticket avoids you making a contribution to a charity you object to and also prevents having to explain why you’re keeping the winnings when there’s a tradition of donating them back.

  154. Applesauced*

    My boyfriend’s company just switched from unlimited time off to 15 days PTO (that’s both sick and vacation) annual. (and it becasue they were bought by a larger company and this is their policy, it’s not like the company is doing bad financially)
    I’me trying to convince him that this could be a bargaining point for a raise… can anyone offer phases/scripts to use? Or suggest past AAM questions and answers to look at?

    1. nonymous*

      maybe try breaking down previous years’ usage to an hourly rate and compare it to the new hourly? so… oldrate = salary/(2080 – PTO used) vs newrate = salary/(2080 – 15) You could take it one step further and propose a new salary by multiplying oldrate * (2080-15) = newsalary.

      Don’t blame me for any political fallout. a lot of times consolidation leads to layoffs (to eliminate duplicate positions).

  155. Anonynonomous for this one*

    A two-part vent around hiring and following application process.
    Part the first: when the first and last lines of the job description both say “Please read and follow all application directions; we will not consider applications that do not follow the application directions as stated” don’t be surprised when we don’t go beyond acknowledging that we did receive your materials (which we do, every single time). Full disclosure: our application process asks you to read the description, browse our website, and if you are interested send your cover letter and resume in one document named Lastname_Fristname_Jobtitle.doc or pdf. I have application docs with Resume.doc (seriously, more than 20!), one memorable mother_effin[but the real f-word in gerund form], and several resumes that have completely different names from the applicant name . . . .

    Part the second: While we are looking for a marketing writer and appreciate creativity, submitting your entire cover letter and resume sans capitalization isn’t gonna get you to the next step. Even the real ee cummings wouldn’t get there! Alas, I’ve had more than one application submitted in ee cummings mode (is this a new trend in cover letters?!).

    Thanks for letting me bitch my little lungs out.

    1. animaniactoo*

      FWIW, my godmother – a psychologist who is very literate – seems to have a brainblock around this. She is severely dyslexic and has trained herself to be able to work around it the majority of the time, but she continues to correspond professionally in email according to her own writing adaptations. Which is to use no capitalization except for proper nouns and to break sentences onto next lines in order to avoid punctuation and keep her visual scan field short. I think that she gets what she needs the majority of the time when she does this, but that she gets treated differently for it because it’s so oddball that they’re really not sure what’s going on in terms of literacy/education level.

      As I write this, I realize what I think I can have her do is create an e-mail signature that explains the formatting is what makes the text most readable for her and ask them to try to respond in kind. Think meaning I believe she’ll accept doing this as an accommodation and not have an issue with doing it. Sorry, I know that sidetracked from what you were venting about, it just helped me sort through a few years of frustration over this (because I am her computer tutor/general helpbody for navigating websites that are too frustrating for her to deal with figuring out what she needs to do with them, etc.)

      1. Anonynonomous for this one*

        I would actually be OK with this in certain situations, especially in a work relationship where the written comms weren’t external. Unfortunately, it wouldn’t work in our line of business as the writer has to adhere to client style guides. Props to your Grandmother, the adaptations she’s made still give some visual breaks and organization to the emails.

        As writing/spelling/punctuating rules change I imagine there will one day be an AAM commenter complaining about applicants who insist on starting every sentence with a capital letter and using quaintly old-fashioned paragraph breaks!

    2. Chaordic One*

      For what it is worth, I took courses in graphic design more than 30 years ago and it was considered very avant garde and kind of Bauhaus to do a resume and letter all in lower-case letters. But I kind of thought it died out in the 90s.

      1. animaniactoo*

        This is so late that I doubt you’ll ever see it – but I started off my accidental career path as a typesetter, and my brain tripped over the names as fonts to use about 3 times before it occurred to me that you were referencing art styles, not fonts. Although the fonts were pretty trendy right about then too…

  156. Mander*

    I came across this interesting idea (link below) of donating your successful CV/resume to a database for newcomers to your field to have a look at and get an idea of what works. In this case, it’s various kinds of media jobs. I thought it was an interesting concept.

    4. CMT*

      If somebody’s dumb enough to plagiarize a cover letter, that’s their problem. Alison has published real cover letters here (with identifying details changed, of course) and they’ve been immensely helpful for me. I would totally pay it forward.

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        Yeah, the issue is that if you share, you have to be okay with never using any distinctive piece of that cover letter again because it WILL be plagiarized, often widely.

  157. Recovering Wallflower*

    I would first like to thank AAM and this great community! All the advice I’ve found and used has payed off! I’ve managed negotiate a promotion to a full-time position with the business I’ve been working for for the past two months (normally they only have part-time positions available). I can now start to concentrate on grad school instead of my finances.

    Which leads me to ask for input from those of you in academia. As part of my grad school application process I need to provide three letters of recommendation from my professors. The only problem is that I wasn’t the most vocal and involved student in class. I participated sufficiently enough to get credit for class discussions, and occasionally volunteered input on some subjects, but was otherwise silently engaged. I’m extremely introverted, which combined with being an overwhelmed first-generation student dealing with severe depression, did not make me a star student. I even had to withdraw from an internship due to insufficient availability and personal issues. I passed all of my classes with mostly A’s, B’s and the rare C. My question is, how should I go about phrasing my requests for recommendations in this situation?

    1. Lemon Zinger*

      Just reach out to professors whose classes you aced, preferably writing- or project-based classes where you really had to achieve individually, not in group settings. Remind the professors of your work, maybe drop a mention of a paper or project you did for them. A compliment wouldn’t help, as long as it’s genuine; something like “I really enjoyed the discussion of XXX film we did in class, and I think of it whenever I think XXX.”

      I hope that helps! I work in higher education.

    2. So Very Anonymous*

      Second Lemon Zinger’s advice. If you aced a class that had a significant writing component, get in touch with that professor and remind them about the topic of your paper. I didn’t know this when I was a VERY quiet undergraduate, but professors don’t just remember the talkative students — they also remember good work/writing. The professor who told me I should consider graduate school saw something in my writing, and when I was a professor, I noticed/remembered students who did well in class even if they didn’t talk much. There are different ways of being involved.

  158. RL*

    I should be receiving a promotion soon and have a question about how the compensation is usually figured out. This is obviously something that will be discussed with my manager, but I was curious what folks here will say as it’s not unlikely my manager just spews some company line BS. Basically, my question is, how do they decide where in the next pay band someone falls? My company will give a letter that says, congrats you’ve been promoted and now make $X. There isn’t an offer letter and no explicit time to negotiate.

    I’ve read about companies paying internal promotions less than new candidates and wanted to know if this is generally based on some sort of policy HR has or is reliant on a manager going to bat for you etc.

    Thanks!

    1. AdAgencyChick*

      Ad agencies are notorious for paying internal promotions far less than what they’d pay someone from the outside — often there’s a percentage cap on how much they’ll raise the salary, even if the person was already underpaid relative to her existing job.

      Which is just a recipe for training workers to go work for other agencies, so I think it’s a dumb policy, but it’s probably not unique to my industry.

      I think the time to start making a case for a good raise is before you get presented the promotion offer, not after.

    2. BRR*

      It varies by company and by manager. If you know for sure you’re getting a promotion you could say to your manager something like, “With my promotion to senior teapot analyst coming up I would like to discuss compensation.”

      1. misspiggy*

        And at any point you can walk away – you can make it clear what you’re looking for, and decline if you’re not offered that.

    3. Nerfmobi*

      The right time to bring it up is before the decisions are made. I’ve been at my current company long enough that I know the cycle and timing of compensation decisions. So this summer when some bonus decisions were in play, I did bring up the topic with my manager. I’d received a bonus at this time in the past, but I was newly reporting to him. I positioned it as a feedback opportunity – that I expected myself to be performing at that level, so if I wasn’t there from his perspective, what would I need to do? This helped highlight my past performance and let me have a productive conversation about his expectations and mine. I did get the bonus, incidentally.

  159. LC*

    I am currently unemployed, having worked on a recent unsuccessful political campaign. When I accepted the campaign position A in June, I had also been interviewing with another political organization B, but Org B could not give me an answer either way before I needed to accept the campaign position. Position A was not in my direct field of interest, but I was particularly passionate about the candidate, while Org B was right up my alley.

    Now, a similar position in my area of interest has opened again at Org B. I reached out to the hiring manager from June, and he responded to say that someone would be reaching out about another role similar to Position A. But I’d really like not to stay in Field A. Is there a polite way to say, “Thanks but no thanks–but can we talk about Position B again?”

    1. Chaordic One*

      I don’t see why not. I’m not sure what a good script would be, but if you politely say what you’ve said here, that should be fine. (Like, don’t shout it out.)

  160. Office Newb*

    How bad is it if I don’t go to my work’s holiday party? For context, I’ve worked there just shy of a year so i wasnt here for the previous party, and it’s my first office job. I work in a satellite office in a different city with one coworker, while the rest of the office is in another city. The party will be in their city which is a good 1.5-2.5 hr drive one way, depending on traffic. Coworker has declared they aren’t going, when my main reason to go was that we could carpool and attend together so thats out the window. Besides the drive , I’m not looking forward to the gift exchange. We are expected to buy a gift in the $20-25 range, and it doesn’t sound like you can opt out without making things weird. I don’t make all that much and I can’t bring myself to feel okay spending that much on something someone might not end up wanting for all I know. Plus spending that much seems a little steep, especially around Christmas and when I have other expenses I need to worry about. Another issue is that I deal wit some social anxiety and just social awkwardness in general. I know and like everyone, but I know I will feel uncomfortable especially without my coworker there. Is it awful if both of us from the satellite office don’t go? Should I suck it up and go or are my reasons to not go valid enough to skip? I’m also kind of wary about driving so far in the evening during holiday traffic.

    1. katamia*

      It really depends on what your office values. However, I think the long drive excuse (3 hours total? yikes) would be a reasonable one for many offices.

    2. neverjaunty*

      So first, it sounds like the social anxiety might be the real issue and you’re grabbing on to vague but “not about me” reasons like the drive or the gift exchange – true? I mean, there’s nothing WRONG with that. But it changes how you approach the problem, because there’s a difference in suck-it-up-ness between not wanting to socialize and not wanting to make a 3-5 hour round trip.

      It really depends on office culture and how big a deal the holiday party is at YOUR company. Some places have the holiday party as the one opportunity for everyone from the mothership and the satellite offices to get together, and it’s weird and seen almost as an insult if you don’t go without an ironclad reason. Other places regard these as more of a party with their work-friends and totally get it if people from yonder can’t make the drive. Does your company pay for mileage? Do they offer hotel rooms for people coming from satellite locations (and if not, why not, for crying out loud?)

    3. Colette*

      Have you met the people in that office in person?

      I think you’re fine to skip given the distance, but it might be a good opportunity to build relationships if you’ve never met the people in that office.

    4. Office Newb*

      Thank you for the replies!

      Honestly I think a big part of it IS the social anxiety. I can bring my husband (haven’t asked him if he’d want to go yet) but English isn’t his first language so I’d probably spend a lot of the time with him so he didn’t feel alone, which defeats the point of going!

      But yes, the drive is another setback. Also the cost of gas, and that the city I’d be traveling to is notorious for horrendous traffic. My work offered to let us leave work several hours early to beat traffic, but they will not be compensating gas or time. So I’d be spending a good $40 or so just to go. I don’t think we will be blacklisted for not showing but our work prides itself on having a great office culture/ “family” vibe so I can imagine there’s going to be a bit of upset and maybe sore feelings if both of us don’t go. Sigh. I’ll probably see if my husband would even be up to go with me, I really don’t want to go by myself. If he says yes I will probably go and see if my coworker will come too if I drive.

      Oh and I have met them when I first got the job and was training in their city, but they’ve recently hired a few new people and I’d miss out on meeting them if I don’t go, which I feel like is another reason to just suck it up.

    5. ..Kat..*

      A 3 to 5 hours round trip commute? And a $20 to $50 dollar gift? No one should have a problem with you not attending. Stay home and enjoy your sofa!

    6. A. D. Kay*

      Just finished reading your original question and your clarification. It’s ridiculous for someone at their first office job to spend so much money and time for an out-of-town event like this. I mean, and the gift exchange thing?? For real? FWIW, at my previous job, the holiday party was held at a nearby country club. No one batted an eye that one of the project managers who commutes in from a nearby town skipped it. Because my company wasn’t ridiculous and unreasonable!

  161. Helix*

    A few months ago, I left my contract job of almost four years. I really liked the work, but after years of trying and failing to secure a permanent role with them, a good job with a different company came up, and I took it. Now, my old company has posted job ads for a few different positions, some of which I’m qualified for. Job openings are very rare, and this opportunity doesn’t come by often.

    However, I’m unsure whether I should apply (leaving aside the part where I just started a new job). Part of the reason I left is because of the disfunctional management, especially due to the biased hiring process. As just one example, I applied to an internal position (with therefore very few candidates), having over a year of experience in a very similar role, and the hiring manager never even read my resume — I know this for a fact because I asked her. Instead, she filled the position with an intern just out of school who never even applied for the job.

    I know the players and I know (and like!) the work, and I have good experience, so I think I have a shot. The positions are at a higher level than what my previous position was, so it would be a promotion right off the bat. I didn’t burn any bridges, and I got great performance reviews while I was there. As to why they couldn’t hire me permanently in the first place, the red tape in changing a contractor to a permanent was pretty complicated, so I think I actually have a better chance at getting a permanent position by applying externally. But part of me is thinking, “Why bother?” Is it just better to not look back and move forward? Or am I just too close to it right now, and I’ll be kicking myself in a few months and wishing I had applied when I had the chance?

      1. Helix*

        My current employer openly encourages staff to seek out different opportunities, and sends external job postings around. They also work with my previous company and have a good relationship with them (and aren’t competitors). So while it wouldn’t look great on me if I left so soon, I think (at least, hope!) I wouldn’t be blacklisted there. My previous company also has a very long hiring process, so I could conceivably have stayed a year with my current company before anything is offered. I’m still wondering if that’s too soon, though.

    2. ..Kat..*

      But the old company has dysfunctional management. How is new company’s management? I would think long and hard before going back to bad management.

      1. Helix*

        I haven’t been at the new company long enough to really tell what their management is like, but I like what I’ve seen so far! They’re very accommodating to employees. For example, they offered me flexible work options, something you have to fight tooth and nail for (also based on seniority, ugh) at my old company. I’m still in touch with a few of my former colleagues (who linked me to the job ads), so I’ve heard there have been some management changes since I left, but certainly that’s no guarantee it’s a change for the better.

        Thanks, this is giving me the idea that I should make a list of what I didn’t like about my old company before I even look at the job ads.

    3. A. D. Kay*

      I’m seeing a lot of red flags with your old job. My sense is that if they brought you on permanently, they are likely to do something else to jerk you around.

      1. Helix*

        That is true! My old boss and the hiring manager certainly jerked me around. I also have a sinking feeling that if I do go back in a higher position, it would only be on paper. Old habits (for them) die hard, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they would be unwilling to grant me the additional responsibilities/resources that would be necessary for the new job because I’d still be viewed through my previous, more junior position. Ugh, thanks for pointing that out.

  162. Annby*

    My spouse is in their first year as a tenure-track professor. Part of their hiring package was that I would get to teach two courses in the same department — one in the fall and one in the spring. I’m teaching the fall course now, and things are going well. But the hiring package was negotiated with OldChair, who neglected to inform NewChair (a) that I’m supposed to teach in the spring, or even (b) that I have a PhD! So NewChair naturally offered the course to someone else. I just found out about this today. My search for a full-time job has not been particularly successful so far, and I feel like my safety net has just been ripped out from under me.

    I don’t understand how NewChair thinks this is acceptable. I’m already furious with this university for having an overly ambitious conflict-of-interest policy that nearly made it impossible for me to get hired in the first place — even for a temporary, part-time position for which I’m overqualified.

    1. blackcat*

      Do you have the hiring package in writing? If so and new chair still doesn’t care, take it to the dean who oversees your department.

      Depending on your field, it’s not too late for your spouse to go on the job market this year. If it’s at all possible, I recommend doing that (with you going on the market, too). I have known people who had departments renege on parts of a hiring package. It was always the first sign of much worse troubles to come.

      1. Ultraviolet*

        Yeah, show the relevant dean any communications you have about this agreement. Also, is OldChair still around? Can you ask them to talk to NewChair about this?

  163. Sled dog mama*

    I am in the position of having two job offers, one from company A one from company B, plus a counter offer from my current employer company C, sort of.

    I decided it was time for me to move on to the next thing and starting looking a few months ago. I had interviews scheduled with companies A and B ten days apart. Interview with A went well and I put it out of my mind. They call eight days later they offer me the position, I was very excited about the position and began negotiating, ending up coming to an agreement I was quite happy with. I was also upfront that I had the other interview and wanted to give the other position a fair shot. At the end of the interview with B I let them know that I had the offer on the table from A and a limited time to respond, I told them one day before I actually had to respond. The interviewer told me he intended to make an offer that would make it difficult for me to choose.
    I went home, slept on it for two days and decided that I really preferred company A and their offer was quite good so I verbally accepted, apparently they have some internal procedure to go through at that point before sending me the offer in writing.
    Two days later and about 30 minutes before I told company B I had to respond to A, company B gets back to me with an offer that is ~40% more than the offer from A. After much thought I decided it was more important to me stand by my word and that ultimately I would be happier at company A. So I turned down company B.
    At the same time I submitted my resignation to current employer (company C). I work between two divisions so I have two supervisors. My primary supervisor was aware I was looking, he is a close friend and is also looking to leave.
    The secondary supervisor had recently come on board and I actually met her for the first time after the interview with company A. She described her reaction to my resignation as shocked and asked if the company could counter. I agreed to listen but told her that I could only give them a limited time. Part of my reason for leaving ( a large part) was the expiration of a contract that composed 50% of my job and the company’s inability to say anything beyond “we don’t know what we plan to do with you” for the last year. But from what she said it sounded like the counter was just going to be this is what we came up with.
    My husband thinks that I should take the offer from company B and the fact that C wants to keep me to company A and negotiate a better deal. I think that since I’ve already agreed to company A’s offer verbally I can’t do that and it would be unprofessional in the extreme. What do you oh wise readers of AAM think?

    1. animaniactoo*

      I agree that it would be wrong to renegotiate at this point on that basis. If you were still in negotiations, you could use the offer from B to say “I’ve received an offer that’s significantly higher, but I would prefer to take the position with you if possible, can you bring the number up any?” but they’ve already negotiated with you in good faith and it’s likely to leave a sour taste in their mouth if you come back in saying (essentially) “Hey! I found out I’m more valuable than I thought! So I want to change our agreement to reflect that!” only on the basis of the other offer and the counter. If you had something like reviewing your research, you realized this was on the low end of or below market rate and would like to know if an additional X were possible, that would be more reasonable because it’s about what the job (and your relevant experience to it) is worth and realizing that is being undervalued.

    2. Chriama*

      I think you were too hasty in accepting A’s offer. Why didn’t you wait to hear back from B? You gave them an artificially early deadline, which they met, but you had already gone back to A. In trying to be fair to A it seems you were pretty unfair to B who operated on the timeline you gave them. I would say at this point there probably isn’t much you can do. I agree that it would be super unprofessional to come back to A at this point. You told them you were waiting to hear back from B and then later came and told them you accepted, so they would have assumed you’d heard back from B and had chosen them anyway. Reopening negotiations is operating in bad faith. Do you love everything about A except the salary? Maybe talk to them about negotiating a raise in a year. My only caveat to this would be if A’s written offer is part of their formal acceptance process. At this point you’ve committed, but do they see it that way? Or will they not see it that way until you receive the written offer? If the latter, you can try to go back now while the written offer hasn’t come yet. Good luck!

  164. Jessen*

    Regarding workplace dress codes: What exactly is the difference between thick leggings, and a pair of stretch pants? I have a bunch of tunic tops that I’ve been accustomed to wear with thick leggings – the kind that are sold as jeggings but have pockets and belt loops and are basically the same fabric as dress pants. We have a new dress code that says no leggings, but I’m not really sure where the line is.

    1. Office Newb*

      I have several “stretch pants” that are made out of the same material as stretch dress slacks but they have elastic waist bands and no zipper. They are form fitting but I wouldn’t say skin tight, and you definitely can’t see through them. They’re pants. I love them, and I wear them all the time and no one is the wiser.

      Leggings on the other hand are usually a more flimsy material and I only wear leggings under dresses or tunics that require a bit more coverage. I think what you describe sounds fine, as long as the tops give coverage and the leggings are opaque.

      There are more conservative places where “skinny” style pants are not acceptable at all. I think if other people you work with wear fairly form fitting or stretch skinny style pants you are ok. But if your coworkers wear suits, trouser style pants, etc then you might want to reconsider your workwear.

  165. LizB*

    Today my immediate team had a mini-retreat that I planned. I was super worried that it would turn into the worst kind of mandatory-fun teambuilding despite my best intentions, but I think I pulled it off! What really seemed to work:

    – Food, paid for by the company, that easily accommodated everyone’s dietary needs
    – Location that wasn’t secluded or out of anyone’s way
    – Icebreaker that didn’t require anyone to share personal information, be embarrassed, or act silly, and was over in 3-5 minutes
    – Focused on sharing professional knowledge and experiences that will be useful for the whole team to know about, rather than personal fuzzy-wuzzy stuff or motivational blather
    – Strict time-keeping so everyone’s contribution had to be short and sweet
    – Fun activity that everyone agreed on and was legitimately excited to do
    – We were done at 2pm and got to go home to start the weekend early!

    I feel like I really bonded with my coworkers and have a renewed commitment to the work we’re doing. Our job has been incredibly stressful lately, and this was just a breath of fresh air. The rest of the team asked if we could do similar mini-retreats once a month from now on, so I think they felt the same way!

  166. AnotherAnony*

    My boss got upset over something and so he gave me the silent treatment for the entire week. At one point he snarled, “Talk!” and I was really confused. He often is the one to get mad at me, but then play victim and act like I’m mad at him. I don’t know if he is being dramatic and trying to get sympathy from everyone, but it’s emotionally draining. He needs constant reassurance, but then he screams at me. (He’s a bully/coward!) It hurts because everyone backs him up/is too afraid to say anything. My one co-worker just laughs at me after he yells at me. It’s horrible.

    1. ..Kat..*

      This is really horrible.
      1. Can you get a new job? I don’t mean this glibly. But being treated like this beats you down, ruins your self confidence, and skews your idea of what is normal. AAM has a lot of advice on this that is helpful.
      2. How bad would it be if you stood up for yourself? Are you worried about being fired? What if you were to say, “Please don’t scream at me. If you need to speak with me, please do so calmly and professionally.” I recommend practicing this a lot in front of a mirror or with a friend. AAM has a lot of good scripts. So does Captain Awkward.

    2. Van Helsing Job Hunter*

      This really sounds like a toxic workplace. I agree with Kat to start looking around for other opportunities.

  167. So Very Anonymous*

    Posting the latest of late posts, but I got a call today about a job I applied for back in September (yes, it’s academia). I missed the call — I took today off, they called near the end of their day (from a different time zone), and I wasn’t near my phone. It’s more typical for a first interview to be arranged by email, and the last bite I had went in a very strange direction, so I’m not 100% sure that this will be a call for an interview and not some kind of screening call prior to setting up an interview. But I’m hopeful. I’d pretty much given up for this semester in hopes of better postings in the spring, so it’s nice to think this could be a nibble. Especially since it’s something I think I’d really enjoy doing, and it’s also in the part of the country I want to move to. Cautiously hopeful…

      1. So Very Anonymous*

        Thank you! My family is dealing with some terrible news right now so I’m glad to have what I hope is a glimmer of good news.

  168. overeducated*

    Posting late but I’m feeling pretty negative and pessimistic about my job prospects, and I would really love a pep talk (or a “grow up” talk if I’m being ridiculous). I moved my whole family a few months ago for a contract-type position that I hoped would be a stepping stone to a long term job in a government agency. (This agency is hard to get into, and most people spend years doing internships, short term jobs, and contracting to get in.) Now there is talk of a hiring freeze that could last many years, and people are trying to get into permanent jobs before January if they can.

    I need at least a year in it my job to be competitive and accomplish much, so I can’t jump now. But I am having some trouble staying motivated and upbeat due to feeling like I made horrible life decisions. This WAS plan B, I left plan A behind due to compromising in a dual career marriage, and it’s the kind of thing where you can’t really get back in after stepping out. I am afraid I’m going to have to start entirely over for the third time, but this time I will be in my mid – thirties and just desperate to settle down and make some career progress.

    Any advice or encouragement? Please?

    1. Colette*

      Is there a reason you can’t try to find something else now? Most people understand that contractors will move on if they’re offered something better (assuming you are a temp worker on a contract, and not that you run your own consulting business).

      1. Overeducated*

        I am not a temp. Don’T want to get too specific but believe me that I really do need at least a year of experience at this GS level to be competitive – I am not in a position to get the “something better” job yet.

      2. Overeducated*

        Yes, the reason is that I really do need at least a year of experience at this GS level to get a fed position. I could give up on the government entirely if I left this project at this point and try to find a parallel position elsewhere, but it would be burning multiple bridges (with a major funding organization -I am on a grant, not a temp – and with my agency).

    2. MissGirl*

      Worst-case scenario you start your career over in your mid-thirties. I’m doing it at 35, my best friend is doing it at 40, my parents are in their late 50s. Crap happens all over perfectly made plans. It can be especially frustrating when it isn’t your fault or when you see other people so much ahead of you. The best thing I can advise you is something I struggle to remember every day. You live the life you’ve been given; not the one you want. This is your reality; what are you going to do with it?

  169. Question Asker*

    Late to the party but hopefully someone will see:

    A couple of months ago, I approached my manager (of a less than 50 employee business) about asking the owners if I can take on a responsibility. Up until then, the owners had been doing it – or rather not really – and so the manager thought it was great and subsequently did the owners.

    However, since I don’t work there full time, the owner said he’d pay me for hours worked at home and he can also send me things for it that occur when I’m not there. Sounds good, right? Well, since I started doing this about a month ago (it took a month for them to give me the materials), the owner has taken a sudden interest in this and now is doing a lot of the work. So I wait for things only to find out he’s already done it! I have said to him a couple of times now that I thought he’d send me things, and he just shrugs it off.

    I’ve been complimented on what I have done, but even so with this, should I just give up since he seems to be taking back the work or not living up to the part where he agreed to send the work? By work, I mean texting/emailing pictures; I take it from there for promotional creations.

    1. Colette*

      There’s not much you can do except ask whether he has concerns about what you’re doing (or how you’re doing it – I.e. Does he need more progress reports to feel confident you’re doing it).

      1. Question Asker*

        I’m posting things straight to the web, which he can see especially if I schedule it in advance. He keeps telling me what I can do and then beats me to the punch. Or else he’ll say let’s meet about how to plan something out and then gets involved in other things (only again to go and do this on his own). But what I’ve done he has complimented so I don’t know what else he wants.

  170. Van Helsing Job Hunter*

    I am going to quit a job I had of two months soon (bad fit). How much notice should I give?
    I am still in the trial period, according to the contract, I only need to give 1 week notice… Should I still offer 2 weeks notice out of professional courtesy?

  171. little vent*

    I just wanted to vent a little in this thread because I do not usually vent about my workday out loud in the present day.

    This week I had a phone call with a field representative to ask a question, and as I was listening on the phone I hear her say “why the hell did she ask for this, and blah blah blah [annoyed ranting]” as she was searching for the answer. I am just going to ride this off for today like I do with most overhearing of coworker’s annoyance with me, but I do think that I should try to get out of this job someday. Right now jobs are still limited and very competitive. Sigh………..

  172. Resume Question*

    On your resume, how do you list the time frame for something you’ve been doing since you were in high school or middle school? For example, if you started babysitting when you were 13 and you still do now that you’re 40, what would you use as the start date? When you actually started? When you were legally old enough to work? Or when you were an adult (18 or post college)?

  173. So, so late...*

    I realize it’s really, really late for this–a coworker just got a text from our boss that was obviously not meant for him. It was about her anxiety and medications she’s taking. Should he reply back and say he’s sorry but she sent that to the wrong person or ignore it, though likely the next time she goes to text him or vice versa she will realize what she did. Is there any best practice?

    1. Anonanonanonanon*

      He could write her an email saying, “Hi Stacey. I got a text message from your number. It looked like it was intended for someone else so I didn’t read it. Just letting you know so you can pass it along to the correct recipient. Or if it was for me, let me know and I’ll open it. Otherwise, I’ll just delete it.”

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