getting out of a fancy work lunch due to allergies, photo of a coworker doing a Nazi salute, and more

by Alison Green on April 18, 2025

It’s four answers to four questions. Here we go…

1. Excusing myself from a fancy work lunch due to allergies

I have severe food allergies to multiple common food items. They are complex (substitutes for one food often contain another, some allergies are tied to flavoring or preservative agents not immediately obvious, etc.), often challenging, truly allergic (not an intolerance), and fairly new (adult onset a few years ago).

For that reason, I very rarely eat out. My food intake is consistent and incredibly limited. I had to work with a dietician for several months to figure out how to even get enough sustenance in me each day.

This reality sometimes makes it difficult to be involved in work events, many of which are food-related. But I’ve come to peace with that and typically just show my face and sip on a water or soft drink.

After a recent success, however, one of the higher-ups is bringing my team and another to a fancy local restaurant for a celebratory lunch. Everyone is very excited, but I checked the menu, and it’s going to be near-impossible for me to eat at this establishment. To be fair, it’s near-impossible for me to eat at most establishments, and even if I just pick at a plain salad, I tend to be a nervous mess the whole time.

Is there a graceful way to decline this group outing/similar outings without reflecting poorly on me or being left out of things in the future? I’d rather they not try to accommodate me; I don’t want to disappoint everyone else who is eager to attend. An alternative restaurant would also not necessarily help my dilemma; I don’t eat out often enough to even recommend one. To that end, I don’t know what else I could do but bow out; attending and not partaking feels somewhat awkward.

Can you call the restaurant, explain the situation, and ask if they’d okay you bringing your own food? Although restaurants often don’t allow that, they’ll sometimes make an exception in cases like this.

Alternately, if there’s something simple that’s not on the menu which you’d feel safe eating if they prepared it in an agreed-upon way (like plain poached salmon with a clear agreement not to add anything to it, or something else similarly straightforward), you could ask about that. Some people with very restrictive diets are comfortable doing that and some aren’t willing to trust it was prepared the way they requested; if you aren’t, ignore that suggestion.

Otherwise, it’s fine to explain your situation and say you’ll need to opt out. Say something like: “I really appreciate the offer to take us to Belvédère à Tacos. I have medical restrictions that mean I can’t eat in restaurants so I need to bow out, but I wanted to explain why and thank you for the recognition.” If they ask if there’s somewhere else that would work for you, you can reply, “I really don’t eat out because of it, but thank you for wanting to try!”

If you’re not comfortable sounding quite so rigid about it since it sounds like you do occasionally eat in restaurants (and you presumably don’t want to say this and then be spotted by a coworker in a restaurant the next day), you could replace “I can’t eat in restaurants” with “I can’t eat in the majority of restaurants” and, if pressed for an alternative, “I’m in restaurants so rarely because of this that I wouldn’t be able to recommend one, but thank you for offering.”

2. VP sent around a photo of a coworker doing a Nazi salute

I have been at my current company for eight years and it’s not perfect, but I do mostly enjoy my work. Last week the senior VP and COO of the company accidentally sent out a photo to 20 employees of our coworker doing a Nazi salute in a branded booth in front of two massive company logos, during an active trade show. There were multiple members of the executive management team, including the director of HR, on the chain, but not one person said anything about the Nazi pic, except for me. I texted that it was incredibly offensive and I don’t want to see that at work. I also spoke with HR. The senior VP sent more trade show pics and pretended like he didn’t just spread hate speech. It was very surreal.

There was zero doubt about what he was doing in the photo, and it quickly made the rounds of our small office. Everyone who saw it was equally horrified and several are thinking of resigning because of it.

This week I was told that the Nazi was reprimanded but will continue to work for the company. I told HR that I would at least like an apology and it should also be extended to everyone on that text chain. I was made to feel like I totally overreacted.

Unrelated to this recent incident, I’ve been interviewing for about a month for a new job that would offer more chance to move up in the company and is also much closer to home. I was truly on the fence about leaving, but the Nazi salute pushed me into the GTFO NOW camp. I anticipate receiving the job offer tomorrow.

When I write my resignation letter, can I explicitly state that I am leaving to grow my career in part but my main push to leave now is the Nazi salute and the way it was handled?

Please do explain that’s why you’re leaving! It’s astonishing that your company didn’t even think this should be addressed with the people the photo was sent to.

I generally wouldn’t put something like this in your resignation letter — resignation letters are for bureaucratic details like confirming you’re resigning and what your last day will be; they’re not the place to get into grievances — although in this case there’s a hell of an argument for including it. Either way, you can absolutely say it face-to-face when you tell your boss you’re leaving, and if you have an exit interview you should mention there as well.

You should also feel free to make sure everyone you work with knows what happened, if they don’t already know.

3. I feel guilty about telling my boss one of my employee was about to resign

I am in charge of a large number of employees. One of them told me he got a new job and would be giving his official notice this coming Monday (he is currently out of town). It weighed heavy on my heart to mention something to my boss. I hemmed and hawed about saying something because we are getting into a very busy season and realistically need to hire now if we are losing someone. He also told two or three of our other coworkers and is clearly excited. I am very excited for him!

So I mentioned to my boss that there was a 99% certainty that someone would be leaving and giving notice on Monday. He pressed hard and told me I needed to tell him who exactly so that he can make arrangements or at least get thinking about it. This is where I put myself in a pickle: I told him I didn’t want to betray anyone but as a leader at our store I did feel inclined to say something, knowing just how busy we are and how much of a detriment it will be when he leaves right now.

My boss seemed grateful that I said something. I even spoke to HR about it first, where she told me it would be best to at least mention something to my boss so we can start arrangements.

But I feel intense guilt that I said anything about it. I do not want to jeopardize his relationship with work and I am not happy that my boss pressed me because I tried desperately to be anonymous. I am his supervisor and in leadership here, and he did not tell me to keep it a secret. But I don’t want to betray him or put him in a bad spot. I think overall I could have waited until Monday. But I also feel like as a business person it was okay that I mentioned something. Is what I did wrong?

He didn’t ask you to keep it a secret! He presumably told you because it felt like work-relevant info and he didn’t ask you not to share it, so you are beating yourself up entirely too much. You’re fine.

If he had asked you to keep it a secret, you’d have been in a harder spot. That’s not always a request a manager can comfortably agree to; when you’re in possession of information that you know will affect business operations, in some cases you have an obligation not to keep that to yourself. That said, a difference of a few days will rarely make enough difference to matter, and in that case you should err on the side of respecting a request for confidentiality if you can. If it were the rare situation where a few days would matter — like if your boss was about to turn down an applicant who would be perfect as a replacement or make staffing decisions that would be affected by this — you’d have much more of an obligation to mention it.

The one thing you did weirdly here was presenting it to your boss as “someone is leaving but I can’t tell you who.” Either tell him or don’t tell him, but that kind of coyness will just cause alarm without having anything actionable attached to it, and it’s not surprising that your boss pressed you to say more once you raised it.

4. Missing work for a tennis tournament

My 17-year-old got a job at a local tennis club. He, like every single other weekend employee, is on his high school varsity tennis team. All these kids have weekend tennis tournaments to travel to during their rather short tennis season (four different weekends!). The employees are asked to find a sub to cover their shifts, but they are literally ALL going to these tournaments. My son’s boss seems unreasonably angry at all of them, when he could have seen this coming a mile away. What is the best way for my son to communicate with his boss about this?

“When I was hired, my understanding was that I’d be able to find subs for the small number of shifts I couldn’t work; it wasn’t clear when I signed on that no one would be available to sub because we all have to attend the same tournaments. I need to keep my commitments to my team, so I cannot be here on (dates). I understand if that means I can’t stay on.”

It’s possible his boss will consider this a deal-breaker so he should be prepared for that … but you’re not wrong that the boss should have anticipated it!

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  1. Ask a Manager* Post author

    A reminder: We’ve had a recent increase in trolling here, and you can help me by NOT RESPONDING to it. If you engage, you are ensuring that troll will reappear. Instead, do not engage at all, and instead just flag the comment for me (just reply with a link, which will send your comment to moderation so I’ll see it). Thank you.

    ——–

    Separately – it is not helpful to post accounts of other antisemitic incidents you’ve heard about. We are aware of what’s happening and do not need the constant pummeling. Thanks.

  2. Feral campsite raccoon*

    Is this where we are now as a society? People can just…throw a Nazi salute up there and no one even says anything? Like it’s completely acceptable, no question?

    1. Bilateralrope*

      From the letter, it sounds like the photo stayed within the company. So we just have a small group protecting the one who made the salute.

      Which will make the story worse for the company if that photo leaks along with “and he’s still working there”.

      1. Leenie*

        Oh. It would be so terrible if that photo leaked. I truly hope that the LW doesn’t see this comment and then become inspired to leak the offensive photo that features giant company logos to the public. Because golly gee, that would just be awful.

        1. References*

          But isn’t OP depending on references if she moves on in her career to other employers?
          If OP cites the salute as a reason for leaving and *whoops* the photo got leaked, how hard would it be to connect the dots?
          I’m not in the US, so it is always difficult to understand the impact of references and how much they are limiting your behaviour.

          1. Bilateralrope*

            That’s why it’s important to make clear just how far the photo spread through the company.

            Though it would be best for the LW for the photo to not be leaked until after they are in a new job.

            1. AnotherOne*

              I would assume that if this was done on the floor at a trade show that someone else saw it happen.

              Even if the floor wasn’t open to patrons at the time, clearly it was open to people with booths, and that’s going to be a fair number of people. The company has no reason to think this isn’t making the rounds, either via photo or via gossip.

              And even if it doesn’t, other people at the company know now. Both that this guy did a nazi salute and that the executive team thinks it’s not a big deal. People are going to move on to other companies and share that story. Even if they don’t, at the next conference, it’s going to be a “omg, i’m so glad nazi guy didn’t come. oh, you didn’t hear that story yet. let me tell you.”

              I can’t tell if its short sighted. If they agree with the guy (which is an issue.) Or if they really think this is in the company’s best interest given the current political climate.

              1. RVA Cat*

                This. What about leaking the photo to the organization sponsoring the trade show? 99% sure there’s a code of conduct for participants that this violates.

          2. But Of Course*

            The response to that, should someone accuse the LW, is “prove it was me”. This is not a photo someone shared only with her, it was circulated more than once to multiple people. And anyway, what’s the actionable harm LW did? The company can’t come after her for a photo – hard to prove libel or slander, I don’t remember which it is – when a photo exists.

            As for the reference, quite bluntly I wouldn’t want to work for a company that was unwilling to hire me because I got a bad or confirmation-only reference from a company that’s protecting someone who did a Nazi salute. It’s the benefit of explaining that this is why you’re leaving that company, and good employers will weight the value of a reference when given context that the referee is being unreasonable. It’s not the same as refusing yo explain why you were fired and then your reference explains it’s for all the embezzlement you did or something similar.

            1. Zombeyonce*

              Libel is Letters (written), Slander is Speech. (I find connecting the first letter of the words makes it easier to remember.)

              For a photo, though, I’m not sure where that falls; however, it would probably fall more on the side of defamation, and truth is a defense against that. With the photo being its own proof, LW should be in the clear legally.

              1. Kevin Sours*

                Defamation is a catch all term that includes libel and slander. In my experience you’ll almost never hear a lawyer use the latter terms because the distinction confuses people and is almost never important.

              2. TM*

                I think you would need to add some actual text to make it actionable. Like, for example, stating that the @sshole is “a nazi”, which is a statement of perception rather than provable facts. But I can’t see how posting the pic and saying “This person represented this company at $event – I *used* to work there” would be considered anything other than stating facts.

                In the UK, something being factual isn’t necessarily a defense – I still don’t understand why not – but even there, if you’re saying something about yourself rather than the individual/company, seems like it’d be hard to sue for defamation.

                Of course, they could try suing for copyright, which is why I would 100% post it with an anon account not connected with any company employees.

                1. Glen*

                  because spreading a secret, for example, can still be defamatory. I know it can feel like that’s protecting people who shouldn’t be protected but consider for example outing someone as HIV+ when they belong to a community that’s largely conservative. Maybe they shouldn’t care about their reputation with the kind of people who would look down on you for having HIV, but if those people are your family that’s easier said than done. And in some circles, it really would do reputational damage, however ridiculous that is and however poorly it speaks of those people, and that’s what defamation is about.

                2. Niles "the Coyote" Crane*

                  Brit here. Things can be true but not in the public interest to share. (EG medical records.)

                  Part of the reason why is that we have a right to Privacy and Family Life enshrined in the Human Rights Act (which embeds the European Convention on Human Rights into our domestic law). And we are still part of the original convention anyway, despite Brexit, so European courts would uphold this even if the Human Rights Act was repealed or watered down (or if someone just wanted to repeal the domestic ruling).

                  Sections of the media here hate this law for obvious reasons which is why our most unethical newspapers are constantly pouring out stories about eg immigrants who committed serious crimes and were unable to be deported because of their right to family life. They leave out the mention of “privacy” in the law and hope no one notices that it’s the same human right that stops them hacking our voicemails and snooping through our emails or bins.

                  That said, there are times when other aspects of our laws do go too far the other way IMO, with superinjunctions taken out by rich people to prevent accurate stories being reported about public figures. This is often stories which are true, about public figures, so there is a case for transparency but they don’t quite meet the ‘public interest’ threshold in court.

                  If a leading figure in the Church of England was accused of sexual offences, report that is obviously in the public interest. If a famous footballer had an affair, that often isn’t (in court). But fans might feel they should know because they’re giving money or support to this person and they wouldn’t if they knew about their life choices.

                  Some of those stories are murkier than affairs. I believe an injunction was granted for one public figure in particular who presents TV shows, writes newspaper columns, frequently railing against “wokeness” and “censorship” and “free speech.” He had been charged with domestic abuse. He had an injunction taken out so this couldn’t be reported. (I may be misremembering some details but that was the gist.)

                  There’s also an aspect of it which is just about rich and powerful people having access to types of reputation management that most people wouldn’t have.

                  That’s why journalists like Ian Hislop say stuff this and often report these things anyway. They fight their case in court and sometimes win, sometimes lose, but then the information is out there. I’ve never known Hislop to report stories that were simply gossip or eg personal medical records, outing people etc.

              3. Emily Byrd Starr*

                Also, “libel” comes from the same Latin word that “library” comes from. That’s how you know it’s writing.

          3. AlsoADHD*

            Very industry dependent, but I’ve only experienced true references from jobs requested in Higher/K12 education (and even there, not that stringent). Usually it’s a record check where a 3rd party confirms employment and basic details. LW is resigning for other work.

            If it is a small industry, or localized, then LW could have other issues but I think they would’ve mentioned it. People in those industries are keenly aware.

            The closest thing to references I’ve used in recent years (not in Education) are LinkedIn recs or personal referrals (which can be people I worked with or bosses but aren’t necessarily always x boss from y company—it’s just my network). And I’ve not had a reference letter in ages, or even seen anywhere to put them in most applications I’ve filled out in the past 5 years.

            1. MassMatt*

              If it’s a small industry, unless it’s one with lots of Nazis, then the hit to the company’s reputation for having an open Nazi on board and circulating pictures of him doing the salute will damage them all the more.

              “Small industry” cuts both ways. And for that matter, an employee like the LW can change industries much more easily than the company can.

              I hope the LW allows the whistle and the company goes out of business.

          4. Guy Incognito*

            I honestly would not be worried about references from Nazis and would be up front about why I left and why I would be providing alternate references. The space I’m in is pretty tight-knight, so references would probably be formality anyway, since there’s a good chance I’d be interviewing with someone I’ve worked for in the past. Not everyone has that privilege, though, but if I was interviewing a candidate who cited “sieg heil posted without consequences” as a reason for leaving I would probably not give those references much weight, anyway.

          5. Specks*

            So now we’re going to not stand against clear hate speech because we’re worried about references? Just how little of an impact on us are we going to try to avoid as a cost to doing the right thing?

            When she applies, she can say that the company endorsed an employee doing a Nazi salute and she left over that and blew the whistle. After that, no one is calling them for references. And if a company does, that’s not a place anyone should want to work anyway.

            This needs to be leaked everywhere possible.

          1. Punch Nazis*

            “It’s the year 2025: The idea that it’s as obvious to everyone else that her coworker was performing that salute as it is to OP#2 but that they simply don’t mind(!) just isn’t credible.”

            2025 opened with people defending elon musks nazi salute. theres also literally someone in this comment thread defending the higher ups as “free speech advocates”, as well as a literal nazi posting salutes.

            i wish i could agree with you, i really really do, but the reality is there are too many people willing to look the other way

            1. LW*

              I love your user name! I’m LW, and I will just say that everyone who has seen that photo knows exactly what he’s doing. I would love to believe it was just a weird angle, but it’s definitely not, although I do think it was meant as a (very bad, unfunny, offensive) joke referencing Elon’s Nazi salute. I think some people who recieved the picture didn’t have an issue with it, but the ones who did were afraid to speak up for various reasons.

              2. Observer*

                I think some people who recieved the picture didn’t have an issue with it, but the ones who did were afraid to speak up for various reasons.

                And that is the heart of the problem. Not one person with the power to make change cared.

              3. Niles "the Coyote" Crane*

                Yes exactly. People said it was joke when Elon did it too. But it seems to me that doing Nazi salutes specifically as a joke is… the same as doing it in sincerity really? It’s scares and intimidates people who are most targeted by the Nazis. It normalises the gesture. It gets other people doing it too (oh just as a joke too, of course). It gets Nazis excited, emboldened, happy. It terrifies all the people who know what it means. And then allows the Nazi to laugh and mock people for reacting.

                This is all an exertion of power by Nazis towards the people they intend to persecute.

          2. General von Klinkerhoffen*

            It isn’t clear what the timing is (because there can be a delay between a LW writing in and the answer being published) but given the recent publicity around a certain high profile figure doing exactly this gesture I think it’s fair to say there’s currently no good faith ignorance loophole here.

          3. Irish Teacher.*

            Apart from the fact that we should believe letter writers, there also is no “ruining somebody’s life” here. If he wasn’t making the Nazi salute and the LW was just imagining it, then what harm would be done by leaking the photo? It would look perfectly harmless to everybody else.

            And if he was making the Nazi salute, well, a) it still probably wouldn’t “ruin his life.” Yeah, people would think badly of him but he would deserve that and let’s not use hyperbole. People being annoyed because somebody did something horrendeous is not the same as their life being ruined. A life being ruined is something like being in a car accident where all your family is killed and you are permanently paralysed or heck, living in Ukraine and your family being killed in a bombing. It isn’t “some people didn’t like you any more after you did something appalling.” That’s just…reasonable consequences.

            I’m not saying the LW should leak the photo, but just let’s stop pretending that we have to cover up for people who do bad things or else we are “ruining their lives.” That is the logic that allowed child abusers to get away with their crimes for years or decades.

            1. But Of Course*

              All other things being equal, a person who commits an act is the ONLY person who ruined their life. People pointing out that they did the thing they did are not obligated to not do that out of some embarrassment for them. If I’m photographed in Klan robes, the person who ruined my life, to whatever extent that’s actually possible in our deeply supremacist society, is me, by putting them on. No one is obligated to shield me from the consequences of my freely-given choice.

              Obviously there are more situations than just “my act, freely chosen”, but that’s this circumstance: the knowledge we, and LW 2, have is that this person chose to do the salute. The person responsible for ruining his life is him, if it even is impacted at all.

              1. Chexwarrior*

                “How dare you ruin my life by telling my spouse I’m cheating on them. Now I’m getting a divorce because of YOU!”

            2. Boof*

              Not sure what “leaked” means but doxing someone runs the risk of things getting wildly out of control – like running people out of their homes, threatening their families, maybe even physical harm. I wouldn’t mess with any of that, personally.

              1. Emotional support capybara (he/him)*

                The Venn diagram of “people who throw Nazi salutes in public” and “people who think they should be allowed to shoot people like me for using ANY public restroom” is a circle, but go off I guess

              2. But Of Course*

                No it doesn’t. The people who have the social capital to throw a salute are protected from their choices by being white men. Or do you think, if we pick an arbitrary starting point like GamerGate, that you can find men experiencing the kind of hate campaigns women, the LGBTQ+, and people of color do? Some of the Charlottesville Nazis lost their jobs. A whole lot of people who didn’t do Nazi things lost their lives. But hey, go off, king – we deffo want to hear from more Nazi defenders.

              3. Lemons*

                He willingly posed for a photo in a public place at a company-sponsored booth, probably wearing a lanyard with his name on it and a company shirt. Same company then emailed the photo around. Leaking and doxxing are difficult to apply here, since no one involved seemed to be striving for privacy at all.

              5. Business Pigeon*

                No one mentioned doxing until you did. And if he’s that concerned with people coming after him for doing a Nazi salute, then maybe he shouldn’t have done that. Why are you so eager to defend him?

                1. Identical argument*

                  And if he’s that concerned with people coming after him for doing a Nazi salute, then maybe he shouldn’t have done that.

                  “If you’re concerned with people coming after you for promoting gay rights, then maybe you shouldn’t have done that.”

                2. Irish Teacher.*

                  That is not an identical argument. Not by a long shot. Promoting rights and promoting hatred are the opposite.

                  Saying they are identical arguments is like saying “oh, you’re saying people shouldn’t commit murder if they don’t want to go to jail. Well, maybe you shouldn’t walk your dog if you don’t want to go to jail. Identical argument.” It’s not.

                  Doing wrong and facing consequences is not identical to being discriminated against when doing nothing wrong.

            1. linger*

              Perception is important, but intent also matters.
              OP’s comment above seems to suggest Coworker still has a job because he was able to convince HR that he was ironically referencing Elon’s salute. And possibly that is the actual case; at least, it makes a little more sense at an industry event than would intentionally throwing out an actual Nazi gesture. If that was Coworker’s actual intent, it’s still really bad judgement, but it’s not automatically a firing matter.
              BUT if so, the VP circulating the photo really needed to share that explanation with those who received it, because without that context, the image is at best ambiguous, in a way that reflects badly on the company, and should cause concern for its employees.
              It’s possible they’re not commenting further on the issue under the principle that disciplinary procedures should usually stay private to the employees affected.
              But in this case the employees receiving the image have also been affected, and the company has made no effort to acknowledge this.

              1. linger*

                * “actual Nazi gesture” should read “a gesture actually intended to show support for Nazis”. (The salute *is* a Nazi gesture, and that is the problem.)

              2. LifebeforeCorona*

                If you need to explain that you’re being “ironic” then you know that the initial reaction is that you are a Nazi and people failed to see the irony of the public gesture. Photographs are a very powerful snapshot of a moment in time.

              3. cathy*

                I’m sorry, but there’s no such thing as an “ironic” Nazi salute if you do it in public.

                1. amoeba*

                  Yeah. Like, yes, at home or with friends or whatever you might do it as a parody (even in Germany – we absolutely do have Hitler parodies that were indeed funny and *not* actually spreading Nazi ideology but making fun of them! I mean, Charlie Chaplin started that tradition way back when…)
                  But in public? At a trade show? Where loads of people see you who don’t know the context? Hell no.

                2. MigraineMonth*

                  Those who study the white power, neo-Nazi and alt-right movements have explained over and over again that all of their recruiting and statements are framed as “ironic” or “trolling” as a way of escaping accountability for their real actions and beliefs.

                  If you “ironically” support Nazis, you are a Nazi.

              4. MassMatt*

                “it’s not automatically a firing matter”

                If it were my company or employee, it sure would be, this guy would be fired on the spot. If I had an “incredibly fired” button I would press it.

                IMO the fact that we are arguing about nuance and intent around people doing Nazi salutes in public in an effort to explain them away shows how far we have fallen as a society.

                On a purely business level, this guy’s terrible behavior and bad judgment could have done tremendous damage to its reputation. As investor extraordinaire Warren Buffet said, “If you cost the company money, I will be understanding. If you cost the company its reputation, I will be ruthless”.

              5. linger*

                In a classic case of burying the lede (why wasn’t it in the letter?), OP2 adds in a comment below that the VPs have a history of vocally supporting Trump’s authoritarian and racist burblings. In that context, it becomes overwhelmingly likely that the VP truly supports Coworker’s salute. And that it was non-ironic. Ick.

                1. OP2*

                  OP2 here – I wrote the original email very early in the morning after a sleepless night stressing out about the whole situation because I realized they weren’t going to address it at all, and HR basically confirmed that. So that’s why I left it out. (I did end up getting the other offer though!!)

              7. Elizabeth West*

                There is no situation in which throwing a Nazi salute is acceptable or unfireable. The company didn’t fire him because the higher-ups are probably okay with it, would be my guess. I mean, they would have to be to accept that explanation.

                And he did it at a TRADE SHOW where everyone could see him. So they’re either a company of Nazis, or they don’t care if people think they are.

              8. Business Pigeon*

                I don’t think at the time there’s any way that an “ironic” Nazi salute is not the same as a Nazi salute.

          5. AlsoADHD*

            That’s a fair reason to not share the image (the notion of context), but I would feel fairly sure too in LW’s shoes. If it was determined there was another explanation (ie we investigated this and found they actually weren’t saluting), once the image is shared, even the individual investigated would WANT the findings shared with those who accidentally received the image. That’s not what happened. The person was reprimanded but allowed to stay and it sounds like LW was blown off by leadership and HR.

            1. Bumblebee*

              Assuming your question is not disingenuous, it’s a white supremacy symbol now. Something about the three fingers, I don’t know.

                1. DJ Abbott*

                  I didn’t, either.
                  And rainbows aren’t about spring, beauty, and little girls anymore either. THIS shows how far we’ve fallen as a society. :(

              2. Llama Identity Thief*

                Specifically when a right hand making the okay symbol is pointed at a camera, the three fingers are the W, whereas you just add a line to the circle made by finger and thumb, to be a P, for WP – White Power.

                It also developed in a really weird way
                -4chan rightoids joked about it being a dog whistle, but had never intentionally used it that way.
                -Mainstream media picked it up and reported as if it was already being used that way.
                -The white nationalist far right went “lol” hard enough that they actually began using it specifically to troll people for thinking they were using it that way, with enough people adding that it kind of actually was being used that way.

                Quoting the ADL:
                “Ironically, some white supremacists themselves soon also participated in such trolling tactics, lending an actual credence to those who labeled the trolling gesture as racist in nature. By 2019, at least some white supremacists seem to have abandoned the ironic or satiric intent behind the original trolling campaign and used the symbol as a sincere expression of white supremacy, such as when Australian white supremacist Brenton Tarrant flashed the symbol during a March 2019 courtroom appearance soon after his arrest for allegedly murdering 50 people in a shooting spree at mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand.

                The overwhelming usage of the “okay” hand gesture today is still its traditional purpose as a gesture signifying assent or approval. As a result, someone who uses the symbol cannot be assumed to be using the symbol in either a trolling or, especially, white supremacist context unless other contextual evidence exists to support the contention. Since 2017, many people have been falsely accused of being racist or white supremacist for using the “okay” gesture in its traditional and innocuous sense.”

                1. MassMatt*

                  The ADL’s credibility is irreparably damaged, given their spokesperson gave cover to Musk’s Nazi salute by dismissing it as an “awkward gesture”. They were left flat footed when Musk made Holocaust jokes on Twitter days later (“my pronouns are he and Himmler”—yuk yuk.).

                  The ADL also defended MA Gubernatorial candidate John Silber against charges of anti-semitism, only to have Silber declare Judaism “a gutter religion” later in the campaign.

                3. Good Lord Ratty*

                  The ADL, sadly, is no longer remotely a reputable source or a protective against antisemitism or any other type of racism. Those days are gone. I’m Jewish so I’m as gutted about this as anyone, but we cannot trust the ADL anymore.

              3. PhyllisB*

                No Bumblebee, it’s a sincere question. I have never heard this before and don’t know what you mean about the three fingers but I’m not asking. Almost everyone I know does the thumbs up sign for okay. I suppose there’s something wrong with that, too.

                1. Niles "the Coyote" Crane*

                  The “OK” symbol the way you naturally do it with your hand if you’re not a white supremacist is fine.

                  There’s a specific way that white supremacists and neo-Nazis do it (see comment above) to mean “white power.”

                  You’d be able to tell generally from context. If someone did a regular OK symbol, absent any other information, you wouldn’t assume it to be white supremacist gesture.

                  A Nazi salute is a Nazi salute, however. Everybody knows what that is.

          7. Dasein9 (he/him)*

            It’s 2025. We know what a Nazi salute looks like and we also know what gaslighting looks like.

            1. LifebeforeCorona*

              Exactly. Stop making excuses for people who know what they are doing. I’m old and have never made a Nazi salute because I know what it means. People need to stop pretending that it’s always done by accident or ironically,

              2. Orora*

                Bingo. If someone pointed out to me that something I did could be viewed as a Nazi salute, I’d be horrified. Even if all I did was sneeze but someone thought I “sneezed like a Nazi”, I would apologize because I would never want anyone to think I was like a Nazi, ever.

                1. MigraineMonth*

                  My dance troupe decided to cut a difficult move from our choreography. I mentioned that we were “not c-walking”. Cue other people staring at me in shock and me nearly passing out from abject horror when I realized how that sounded. THAT’S NOT WHAT I MEANT.

          8. Andy*

            Marjorie, the people fired for making the “OK” hand gesture were, in fact, smirking white supremacists making the white power symbol and daring everyone else to do something about it.

            I’m through playing the “but I’m not touching you!” game with people who are clearly trying to play it.

          9. Ruh Roh*

            No no no no no. That gesture is VERY distinct and purposeful. The hand down differentiates it from a wave, a broad sweep of the arm, a “my heart goes out to you.” Honestly I’m not sure if you are a troll comment.

            And the OK gesture absolutely WAS being used to signify the same thing a few years ago, but that too, you held your hand in a different way than usual.

        3. tsumommy*

          Oh my gosh, right? An accidental leak to social media would be so bad.

          For the company. That 100% deserves to have this information outed.

        4. Ms. Eleanous*

          Oh. It would be so terrible if that photo leaked. I truly hope that the LW doesn’t see this comment and then become inspired to leak the offensive photo that features giant company logos to the public. Because golly gee, that would just be awful.

          In a New York Minute.

        5. Possum's mom*

          The LW wrote that this took place at an active trade show so who would know how the public at large became aware of LW’s company ‘s affiliation with this ideology?/s

      2. WillowSunstar*

        Yeah, but it’s ridiculous. 2025 and we still have people who think this kind of thing is ok? It should not be allowed.

      3. Observer*

        From the letter, it sounds like the photo stayed within the company. So we just have a small group protecting the one who made the salute.

        Yes. Exactly. Someone threw a Nazi salute and the company *protects* him. Because on *one* person high up in the company thinks it’s a significant issue.

        And this despite doing it in a highly public place that is also totally – and intentionally- tied to the employer.

    3. Ally McBeal*

      I mean, look at what Elon did. He’s FAR from suffering consequences at the moment. (I believe in my heart that his day is coming, but it won’t be at the hands of this administration.)

      1. FSU*

        >>>….it won’t be at the hands of this administration.

        I think it will. Trump has demonstrated that he will turn on anyone who doesn’t worship him, especially those who used to worship him. There are current news headlines of a rift between Elon and Trump. I don’t think it will be long before Elon is trashed by this administration.

        1. MigraineMonth*

          I’m surprised it hasn’t happened yet. Even Trump’s most fervent allies usually have an expiration date shorter than refrigerated eggs. I assume Trump really, really needs the money.

        2. Reluctant Mezzo*

          I kind of hope that Trump does throw Elon under the bus, and then Elon explains exactly what Trump meant by thanking him for ‘helping with the vote counting computers’.

      2. Elizabeth West*

        That’s because he has money. If he didn’t, and he were working in a non-Nazi administration or company, he would be out on his ear. Or should be.

        (Off topic but Ayanna Pressley called him a “Nazi nepo baby.” I LOVE her, hahaha.)

    4. Polaris*

      Um, it was done by one of the current sitting PUSA’s flunkies during the d@mn inauguration, and apparently it wasn’t clear enough for those ding-bats who slept through world history in both middle school and high school as there’s debate over whether it was or wasn’t.

      It was.

      1. But Of Course*

        I actually think it was extremely clear to everyone who saw it, minus children, and the people trying to pretend it wasn’t that are people who want cover for their own bigoted acts, which they intend will be more overt in the “permissive” culture created by giving open fascists the presidency. IOW, they want the rest of us to get caught up in the he-did/he-didn’t argument and let them do their bigotty things.

        1. CrazyCatDude*

          LW2 – You absolutely should explicitly call out the Nazi salute as the reason behind your resignation. I’d also consider speaking to local media and any professional organizations that might exist for your industry about the salute and your company’s tepid response to it.

          1. CrazyCatDude*

            Oops, not where I meant to post this. That said I absolutely agree with you that most people know exactly what this salute intended, included those dismissing that it was a Nazi salute. It’s useful for far-righters to claim publicly they don’t support Nazism while covertly playing footsie with Nazis under the table.

        2. NotRealAnonForThis*

          But Of Course – you are absolutely correct in all of this.

          There was a touch of sarcasm in my note, but I admit it may not have been enough and you have very much expressed what I think as well.

          I will also say that in my case there is a very heavy correlation in “classmates I noted slept through science and social studies classes in high school daily” and “currently MAGAts who defend this bigotty crap if not participate in it”. Not every kid who ever slept through class is/was/does, but those who do behave like this currently definitely were head down and snoring during those classes when I had to be in the same room as them.

      2. WillowSunstar*

        Yep, saw that and also saw the excuses made for him, too. It’s just so sad we’re now living in this kind of world.

      3. Glen*

        if you think the people saying it wasn’t the nazi salute are arguing in good faith, then please think again.

    6. Phony Genius*

      I was wondering the same thing. Not about the photo, but the event itself. It happened at a trade show, so people in attendance must have seen it. Did anybody there say or do anything? If it was brought to the attention of the people running the trade show, what did they do? And what about the person who took the photo?

    7. CrazyCatDude*

      Unfortunately, it seems so. Look how many people dismissed or outright defended Elon Musk and Steve Bannon making public Nazi salutes.

    8. Sky Dancer*

      Not all “People can just…throw a Nazi salute up there” and get away with it – you have to be the richest man in the world to do that! Then you’re invited into the Oval Office to pose with a chainsaw and start dismantling the country’s best institutions.

    9. Ha2*

      Yep, pretty much. There’s photos out there of some pretty prominent people in the current US government doing Nazi salutes at big events.

      1. linger*

        OP2’s company event took place after those, which makes it very likely Coworker was referencing those instances rather than literal Nazis.
        The coyness of those “prominent people” creates a nasty slippery slope of plausible deniability about intent: the salute ends up going from “I support Nazis” to “I am making an authoritarian power play referencing Nazis” (Musk et al, who intend to preserve this level of ambiguity, whatever their beliefs) to … whatever Coworker was doing, which was at best a profoundly ignorant “This is what people do to mark important events like this one”.

        1. linger*

          OP2 adds below that the VPs are vocal Trump/Musk supporters.
          That extra detail makes it almost certain that whatever Coworker was doing had the support of the VP sending the photo. And that it was at best copying Musk, and was not ironic or subversive about it.
          [Expletive.]
          Adding that detail to the letter could have saved a lot of argument.

          1. Elizabeth West*

            Yep, I was right then. Company full of Nazis is fine with it. *insert barf emoji here*

        2. Joron Twiner*

          Those are literal nazis though.
          Promoting fascism, right wing politics, white supremacy… they are referencing Nazis referencing Nazis.
          Not even the profoundly ignorant think “this is what people do to mark important events”. No one is accidentally doing this in Sunday church or at weddings or at the Superbowl. It is a Nazi symbol and we shouldn’t downplay the severity by assuming the people who use these gestures are ignorant of their meaning. They use that plausible deniability in poor faith, so we should give them none.

    10. Worldwalker*

      It depends heavily on the context. There are people giving Nazi salutes (which, to be pedantic, are actually ancient Roman, though that is only relevant to time travelers) to Tesla owners/supporters, for example. Depending on context, it could mean “I’m a Nazi” (as Elon Musk meant) or “You’re a Nazi” (as everyone giving Nazi salutes to Teslas means). The latter seems improbable at a trade show booth, but thinking about it, so does the former, too. I’m thinking there’s something more complicated going on here.

      1. Aneurin*

        No. This wasn’t an ancient Roman, or anyone playing one in a movie (or at a convention/living history centre/reenactment event). They’re Nazi salutes.

        1. Worldwalker*

          That’s why I mentioned the ancient Roman aspect as being only meaningful to time travelers.

          1. Aneurin*

            Other than showing off, there seems no point in mentioning it at all. Assume there are no time travellers reading these comments.

            1. Elle*

              “Other than showing off,” huh? I mean, some people enjoy learning and knowing things.

              Thanks Worldwalker- I’m actually glad to know that so that if anyone pulls out the Rome explanation I’ll at least have heard of it.

              1. Elizabeth West*

                This “actually” was all over the place after Elmo threw his double-barreled salute.

            2. Ellis Bell*

              I think you read Worldwalker incorrectly. They are saying the (unfortunately common) Roman excuse is always bogus *because* there are no time travellers in the comments or anywhere else.

      2. But Of Course*

        The former somehow seems improbable to you, when this was all started by the richest man in the world, who is now the shadow president of the US and a CLEAR Russian operative and also the absolute darling of aggrieved white men, throwing a Nazi salute at the inauguration. The former seems somehow improbable to you, under a circumstance where Naziism and fascism have been given overt support at the highest levels of US government.

        I am agog.

      3. Lost hope*

        The only benefit of the doubt I could see is if coworker was waving to a crowd and this photo was taken making it look worse than it is. Only reason is because so many RW trolls brought up photos of dems after Elons salute. However LW has the context and probably knows there is more that make an obvious salute and since the other coworkers are horrified I wouldn’t be surprised if there is more than what could be communicated in a letter.

      4. Anon for this*

        Hello! Jew here. When I see someone giving a Nazi salute, I see someone giving a Nazi salute. I’m super not interested in what their intended meaning is. It’s a Nazi salute. It means “marginalized people should feel unsafe.” It means I feel like my life is in immediate danger. If you’re giving a Nazi salute in public, at minimum you’re normalizing Nazi salutes in public and making people around you feel unsafe… for what? To totally own someone who bought an electric car?

      5. Glen*

        the Nazi salute is called “the Roman salute” but it is absolutely not ancient Roman. The fascists love to claim that because they’re obsessed with the classical world, but there is zero connection.

    11. Coverage Associate*

      No. My church fired a priest for doing the same thing a few days after Musk as part of the same continuing political event where Musk was filmed, and my church is conservative in almost every way (eg, women don’t teach men, no women clergy, Ben Carson bumper stickers in the parking lot in 2016 in Silicon Valley) though it also hates partisan political expression that can be viewed as on behalf of the church. So part of the issue with the priest was that he was speaking at a political event, dressed as a priest, and not just as a chaplain or to give an invocation. But if he had only said and done things consistent with the church’s teachings on the dignity of all people and the role of Jews in salvation history, he would have received a private talking to, not a public firing. (It might have been a private firing had the salute not been on national television and mentioned in the Washington Post. And the priest blogged about it.)

      Anyway, my experience is that this employer is really an outlier even among conservatives and Trump supporters/sympathizers.

    12. Summer*

      Did you see what happened when the co-president threw one up? Everyone on that side rushed to defend him with the lamest, most transparently pathetic excuses. I effing hate it but, yes, this is EXACTLY where we are as a society right now. And it SUCKS.

  3. GLAMGal*

    LW1: totally get it – i have food allergies to a bunch of stuff and often find myself not partaking or just having a beverage while the people around me have a meal. I think it’s less awkward than you think (hopefully), and the more you’re willing to do it, the less people are weirded out by it? That’s at least been my experience with food allergies for the last 20+ years – just saying “I have allergies, so I’ll have to pass” and then saying “oh it’s a ton, it can make it hard to do ____” if they push (for me, i always say it’s hard to do first dates, and then I pivot into asking a mundane question about someone’s partner).

    (Other unsolicited piece of advice: please tell members of your team and your boss about allergies, if you haven’t!! It’s always best to have someone you trust know you have allergies and where you might keep epinephrine, just in case. Makes it easier to have allies in it as well.)

    1. NotRealAnonForThis*

      That last part – if you have anyone who you trust, make sure that they know that you have them and that you at least have epinephrine, if not where you store it! It makes life so much easier at work when there’s someone else who says “Yeah, NotReal can’t eat here…” or knows that your pens are kept in the middle drawer that has a pink sticky note on it, etc.

      Having had a boss who truly felt that surprising us with elegant afternoons at a restaurant early in my career…I had to learn very quickly to advocate for myself and draw boundaries, or I was going to have issues. Thankfully it was really a case where my boss had never really come across someone with food allergies before, and just didn’t know.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        Yes, please tell us where you keep the Epi-pen. I used to sit near a coworker with a deadly peanut allergy (it wasn’t airborne but I still refrained from bringing any PB because I often ate at my desk). When she disclosed her allergy, I asked her to show me exactly where it was and how to use it.

        It might be worth calling the restaurant and asking if they can bring something. You never know. They might say no, but they might also be okay with it if the company execs are regular customers.

    2. Allergic to life*

      Also in the “massive number of allergies” camp. And yes it’s awkward that I can’t eat at basically any restaurant, but people appreciate that I sit there even not eating and tell me so regularly. (I can’t even do that at all places because I react to two things when they’re airborne) It helps that I’m matter of fact about it, basically breezily saying “oh I’m allergic to almost everything, I’m here to chat, I already ate” and with people who are persistent I say “going to the hospital would be way more socially awkward”

      Side note: I also have Celiac, which is an intolerance not an allergy. I won’t die from eating a literal crumb of bread, but I will be sick for 1-2 weeks. I’m not cross-contact sensitive on my allergies, but I definitely am on gluten, so that makes restaurants even harder than the extremely long list of allergies.

    3. Mostly Managing*

      Another in the lots of food restrictions group.

      I’ve started saying, “Oh, I can’t eat food with ingredients, so you go ahead and I’m quite happy at my desk with a book”

      Said with a jokey tone, the “i can’t eat ingredients” makes nearly everybody stop pressuring me and just accept that I’m not going.

      There was one boss (who was lovely!) who came to me well ahead of an event and said, “I really want you to be able to participate. I know it’s going to be complicated. Can you work with me on choosing a venue that you can join us at?” and then, bless her, she made it so that any time the team went out we went to “our regular place”.

    4. Ranger5*

      As someone with late onset allergies that make it impossible for me to eat out, I totally agree with GLAMGal and all the others encouraging you to go! One of the hardest adjustments to a restrictive diet for me was the fact that only about 10% of dining together is really about the food, and if you exclude yourself from it, you are missing out on the other 90% which is all social. You should go and just get a bottled drink, or if they don’t have any just order a soda but don’t drink it. When people ask me, I just say ‘Oh I have way to many food allergies that make it impossible to eat out, its so annoying…anyways’. I find if I leave it open like, ‘I can’t eat anything here because of food allergies’, people read it as a problem that they want to help solve and try to make suggestions to get me to eat (like, we could ask the chef, or choose another restaurant) when it just really isn’t possible. It really feels much less awkward after you do it a time or two. Just remember to still leave a couple of bucks for the waitstaff as you count towards their numbers whether you eat or not.

    5. Coverage Associate*

      There may be allies where you don’t expect it! I literally frowned when a visitor said he didn’t have any allergies on a day my office had a bake off. I was using the bake off to test recipes for family members with allergies and food sensitivities, even though I don’t have any myself. Since I don’t live with these family members, baking for them is a fun occasional challenge. I am really surprised that an office of our size has no vegetarians or people with celiac even, and no allergies.

  4. Upside down Question Mark*

    RE: #3, I rarely disagree with Alison but to me, the manager keeping the leaving employee’s name anonymous seems to be the right thing to do. As often shared here, nobody wants to be forced out early, because anything could still happen between the letter and the employee giving that promised official notice, like their job offer falling through, right? Perhaps I’m missing some context, like the employee already signed their offer letter.

    1. Viette*

      I think saying something but leaving the employee name anonymous is very much the wrong action, and that it’s a lot like the LW the other day who was told they have to ‘give feedback’ to an employee but it wasn’t allowed to have any content. There’s no point in telling your boss if there’s not a name attached to it, because that’s absolutely not actionable intelligence. If you want to keep it quiet, you can keep it quiet, though you may be in a tough spot if later it turns out that was the wrong decision, but just saying that SOME employee of yours is leaving but it’s a secret who is purposeless.

      1. But Of Course*

        Right – if the leaving employee is a shift lead, hiring may look different than if they’re a clerk who hasn’t been cross-trained in anything. Both may allow you to hire the exact same person, but then to replace the lead you’re looking at a web of promotions. Leaving the name out while announcing the departure is less than useless. If you’re really worried that telling another member of leadership is violating a coworker’s privacy, the solution is to not say anything.

    2. Leenie*

      It seems really low stakes in both directions, in this particular case. I think LW was overthinking it, which led to her odd half-disclosure. The worker said he got a new job and would give official notice when he was back in town on Monday, with no uncertainty mentioned. So he really wasn’t injured by the disclosure. At the same time, the few days wouldn’t have made much of a different to the hiring process, so she didn’t need to be too stressed about feeling obligated to disclose either. She worried so much about both sides of the equation that she made a choice that was perhaps the only bad choice. Tell, don’t tell, either way would have been fine here. Half telling was just not a great path.

    3. Sloanicota*

      I was trying to follow the timeline here, but if the employee already had a job for Monday I think it’s fine to tell the big boss at that point. The risk of someone being “pushed out early” is so real – but you’ve only got a few days left. This letter would make more sense if the employee was going back to grad school in a couple months. Although if the boss would do something shocking like not pay out the rest of the vacation or something, then I would understand OP’s hesitancy better – then OP shouldn’t have mentioned it at all (and the employee shouldn’t have mentioned it to OP, so as not to put them in this situation).

      1. Yorick*

        He was going to give notice on Monday, so he could get pushed out early, but only by 2 weeks + a few days.

        1. KateM*

          I’d say only a few days, because if he’d be pushed out hearing he will give notice on Monday, he would also be pushed out on Monday after giving notice.

        2. Slow Gin Lizz*

          I’m all confused about this letter specifically because the employee told his boss (OP) he was leaving but that wasn’t official notice? I guess maybe this is a place that requires a letter or something similar that would count for “official notice,” but I’d say if you’ve told your boss you’re leaving, that’s pretty official. And presumably he told OP because he wanted to be nice and give OP and the company more time to work out what to do WRT hiring a replacement and get the ball rolling, so I do agree that it was fine for OP to tell the boss that it was specifically that employee who was leaving. After all, it doesn’t much make sense to think about hiring a new person if you don’t know what that person’s job duties will be.

          1. Turquoisecow*

            Yeah so if the employee didn’t want the big bosses/HR to know they were leaving, then why did they tell OP? Presumably they were okay with people knowing. (unless they specifically asked OP to keep it quiet which they didn’t.) I’m guessing the official notice is just speaking directly to big bosses/HR which they would do Monday when they returned.

            Also big bosses/HR are making a huge deal over a couple of days here. Unless this is a retail shop where they put a sign in the window saying help wanted and someone is hired same day and starts tomorrow, I don’t think a couple of days will make a huge difference to the hiring process. Like Alison often says, those 2 weeks aren’t used to hire your replacement, they’re for handing off duties. So they still have 2 weeks to figure out how to shuffle responsibilities and schedule to cover the person leaving.

            Feels like everyone here is being kind of intense.

        3. Always Tired*

          Right, but the timing can still be important. I have certainly seen a company move up a last day to have it at the end of the month rather than early the next

          (why does this matter, you ask? American health insurance. You coverage ends at the end of the month your last day is in. So there is a huge difference between last day April 30th and last day May 1st.)

    4. Rogue Slime Mold*

      The whole thing seems like waffling designed to make it so no side gets mad at you, that actually causes everyone to be mad at you.

      If the employee wouldn’t get pushed out because they need bodies, then it sounds like OP could just tell the boss who plus the timeline. OP could also wait what seems to be literally a couple of days–I just don’t think the difference between “two weeks notice” and “two and a half weeks notice” is going to be helpful, especially as it seems “actually it fell through” is also on the table, so why not just wait a couple of days so you know?

    5. Antilles*

      I think OP provided either too much information or too little.
      If you want to keep it quiet to avoid the employee being forced out, then keep it quiet. Or if you want to provide the Big Boss with information, then provide the Big Boss with information.
      This middle ground where you say an employee is leaving but not who is worse than either. That makes the Big Boss curious, asking for more information, possibly speculating and making assumptions (Jim came in wearing a suit last week, is it Jim), and with no real way to take action since he doesn’t know who needs replaced.

    6. ecnaseener*

      You’re not wrong that the new job could fall through, and if the employee was the one writing in then we’d advise them not to tell their boss until they were ready to give formal notice. But the employee isn’t the one writing in. If LW wanted to, for lack of a better phrase, save the employee from this mistake, then they shouldn’t have bothered giving the vague non-actionable info to their boss, they should’ve just said “good luck, I’ll wait until you’re ready to give definite notice before I act on this.”

      (Charitably, it seems LW thought/hoped that their info would be actionable, but apparently they were wrong about that — whether because they would need to hire for specific expertise or because internal policies require you to have a spot to backfill before you post the job or whatever.)

    7. Snow Globe*

      The employee did not ask that this be kept secret, they told multiple other people, they had another job lined up, and they said they planned to provide an official resignation on Monday. Since the employee was out of town when they called, I’d assume the “official” resignation would be a written notice when they were back in the office, but this was an unofficial resignation.

      I don’t understand why the LW even thought that it was something that the employee wanted to be kept secret.

      1. Chris*

        I agree with this. This is on the employee. Once you’ve told your Manager (and multiple colleagues) you are leaving, you are essentially telling the company. I have had Managers that I had an amazing and close relationship with, I would not tell them until I was ready to make it official.

    8. Ginger Cat Lady*

      How is that the right thing to do? It’s not actionable, but it does raise worries. Tell the full story so the company can take action, or just keep it to yourself until the employee gives notice.
      This reminds me of the woman on SNL who can’t keep her mouth shut when she knows something and HAS to get it out but knows it’s a bad idea to spill so she does stupid things.
      OP should have kept it to themselves until the employee actually gave notice, it’s just a few days.

    9. fhqwhgads*

      But the framing in this instance was “on Monday” – which implies less than a week away. Possibly only a weekend away, I can’t tell. And the employee told this manager and multiple colleagues. That’s A) too short a timeframe to make a difference and B) sort of pointless on the employee’s part if they weren’t ready to share. They told multiple people at work. The news is out. It’s not a secret. The advice to not get forced out early is for the employee – who shouldn’t have said anything to anyone if the concern was it might fall through before Monday. Once the employee told anyone at the employer, the advice you’re talking about it a moot point.
      OP’s options were say nothing til Monday, or just be up front about it. In this context I don’t really think either is wrong.

  5. SamiLou*

    For OP 2 — Personally, there’s no way I’d ever want to be close enough for an apology from someone who did that.
    The likelihood of it being completely meaningless on his part is enormously high.

    What I would strongly consider doing is a tip (anonymous or not) to the local newspaper.

    1. Bilateralrope*

      The issue is not just the nazi salute. It’s everyone protecting the person who made it

      1. Zombeyonce*

        It’s both. The Nazi employee should be fired and the people protecting them should ALSO be fired.

        1. Elle*

          I feel like this is why I’d want to go the “anonymous, but substantiated via included redacted email screenshots to the local news” route. This isn’t just about the one nazi, this is about a whole leadership structure of nazis.

          Remember, folks: if you have a nazi sitting at a table with nine people, you have 10 nazis.

      1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

        Just a reminder: Glassdoor is no longer anonymous.

        A reader shared that with AAM and Alison made a post about it.

  6. Cabubbles*

    The Lws boss is so delusional. When I was responsible for seasonal hiring, I used to stress that the job came with a blackout period and no exceptions (obviously not including illness or emergency) would be made. I had to do that because we’d had repeated issues with “religious” transplants having a huge amount of must go events. If scheduled they’d “try” to find coverage but ghost work if they couldn’t. We’d always honor availability requests but remind them that the request didn’t apply to schedules already published. We even had 2 that would take turns taking the demerit for missing their shift. We had to bar them from covering each other. In the end, we started watching the number hires that took on that listed the “religious” school on their resume.

      1. Cabubbles*

        I was more validating the LW that it is definitely a boss problem. I agree with Alice. My only thing to add would be to have all the seasonal employees give their meet schedules to the boss as a collective and put it in their hands to create schedules with what’s available. Ideally, they created the problem so it’s their job to fix it.

        1. Sloanicota*

          I like to problem-solve so I would totally be trying to identify “swing” workers who could cover these high school tennis weekends but still be good at the job … although I realize that’s not where OP’s son’s problem is. But I agree with OP, there’s something particularly aggravating when a problem was identifiable miles away yet the “solution” is apparently just to pressure the little guy and be as unpleasant as possible.

          1. Samwise*

            Welcome to my very large research I public university and the state university system of which it is a part.

        2. ScruffyInternHerder*

          I mean – its what my retail boss did! She had all her high school aged employees provide “No go due to (activity)” dates on color coded sticky notes. She had a huge calendar in her office with them. She knew at a glance who was and wasn’t available based on the color she gave everyone. She also could see (she’d asked us to identify what the activity was) that she had four girls on local HS’s cross country team, so if an application came in from a fifth, she’d make sure that if hired, that girl went to a different department!

          Might not be possible in a tennis club, but I agree, the boss here was delusional if the hiring pool is specifically from “Club Tennis Players who Play in College Prep Tournaments Every Weekend” and then telling said players that they need to find coverage? (I argue that finding coverage when the employer ignores availability is NOT on the employee in the first place)

          1. Worldwalker*

            Yeah. I can see why they would want to hire the tennis players, but the same factor (playing on the team) that makes them desirable employees also affects their availability. You can’t separate the two, no matter how bossy you get about it. And you are not going to find people who are so focused on tennis that they’ll do all the work to get on the team who are also so not focused on tennis that they’ll blow off a tournament for a part-time job.

            It’s like the idiot bosses who say “What’s more important, education or your job?” and seem surprised that the person says “education” and walks out.

          2. Ama*

            My mom used to work at a tennis club and judging by her experience most people managing tennis clubs got into it because they worked in tennis in some other capacity first (in her case, her boss was a tennis instructor who applied for the management job so he could have a more stable income, but there’s also a lot of former players who could never rise above the lower levels of the semipro tourneys). Most of them have never had any kind of business or management training or managed people at all before they take the tennis club job.

            My mom’s boss was smart enough to eventually realize he needed to hire enough employees who weren’t teenagers/twenty something aspiring professionals to survive during tourney season (my mom was the second hire of a group of four women in their 40s-50s who worked part time around other family/work commitments), but apparently it took him a while.

    2. Lee*

      if I’m misreading this, sincere apologies, but if not, your answer is what sounds like religious discrimination? Because that is what it sounds like and, just to be clear, is illegal in the United States. at least for right now.

      3. Hyaline*

        Yeah… unless this meant claiming religious reasons for missing work but the employees were blatantly lying…yeeeeah yikes.

      4. LaminarFlow*

        Think about it this way: Hiring Manager interviews and hires 5 new employees for a job at a company that is open 7 days a week, from 8am-9pm. Hiring Manager notes in the interview process that applicants must have availability that aligns with days & hours of operation, weekends and nights included.

        With students in school during the week, that leaves mostly nights and weekends for them to work, and they are scheduled accordingly, with the occasional Saturday/Sunday off for various reasons, which they have been told to communicate at least a month (or however long the schedule timeline is) in advance.

        But, the student employees start requesting the current week’s Saturday/Sunday off, and they cite a religious service or holiday as the reason, despite knowing that they signed on to work weekends, and schedules are created a month (or however long) in advance.

        This puts the business in a place where the weekends are consistently understaffed at the last minute, and employees are using “religious service” because they know religion is a protected characteristic.

        IDK if that is exactly what Cabubbles is getting at, but I remember this happening when I worked in retail during college 30 years ago.

      5. Cabubbles*

        Sorry for the confusion. Not religious discrimination. My community has a massive problem with a local cult that also has an unacredited school. They have members that move here from all across the globe. We were very careful to allow for religious practice. Also we didn’t reject them or let them go for being members but rather for blatantly ignoring scheduling policy.

    3. Jay (no, the other one)*

      So do the scare quotes mean it’s not a real religion? Or a religion you don’t like? Or you don’t think they’re actually religious? I’m sure it’s not that you’re discriminating against a religious minority in whatever country you live in because that would be – bad.

      1. doreen*

        I got the impression ( although I’m not 100% sure) that the quotes were about the school, not the religion. It’s not uncommon where I live for certain religious schools to be not all that religious (beyond a religion class) and to have a lot of students who don’t belong to that religion.

        1. metadata minion*

          Sure, but a Catholic school is still a Catholic school, and even if it’s not super proselytize-y presumably there are plenty of actually Catholic students there in addition to those whose parents just thought they’d get a better education than at the public school.

      2. Cabubbles*

        I didn’t now how to express what is just generally understood in my community so I used quotes. They are a cult. To the level that no one in my community would be shocked if they drank the Kool Aid one day and we make national news. We never barred anyone from the group from being hired. We allowed for religious observation but members often refused to play by the scheduling rules. So when hiring if they had their membership on their resume we’d make a point to stress scheduling and ask them if that would be a problem before offering them a job.

    4. xylocopa*

      “We even had 2 that would take turns taking the demerit for missing their shift. We had to bar them from covering each other. ”

      Why? Maybe I’m misunderstanding–but it sounds like the shift was being covered?

      1. sparkle emoji*

        I’m reading it as A would say they’d cover for B, no show to go to whatever event, and get a demerit. Then B does the same for A. Otherwise, not sure where demerits would come in.

      2. Bumblebee*

        right, isn’t that what you want to have happen? “I have an activity and I’ve found a sub.” How is that a bad thing?

        1. linger*

          In this case the “sub” knew they’d also be out for the same event. So there would be no actual coverage. Which raises the issue beyond “ghosting” to “intentional deception”.

      3. Cabubbles*

        They would report that they’d cover but actually had zero intent to cover. To avoid getting fired they’d take turns on who would no call no show.

      1. linger*

        How about: a “religion” that allows members to prioritize covering up for insiders over dealing fairly with outsiders?
        (We do *not* know that that is a professed doctrine of this religion in general. But we do know that that is how these two employees have behaved, repeatedly, over an extended timeframe.)
        N.B. This criterion cannot apply where outsiders have made fair dealing impossible, e.g. where membership provokes persecution. But conversely, any belief system allowing religious persecution of others will itself meet the scare-quote criterion.

    6. Ginger Cat Lady*

      Wow, just admitting to religious discrimination openly.
      The quotation marks alone tell me you have zero respect for their religion. Everything else you describe confirmed it.
      Not cool.

      1. Yankees fans are awesome!*

        I took the quotes as a reference to those who claim a religious exemption but don’t actually belong to that religion; they just use it as cover because no one else can prove otherwise. Happens all day, every day.

    7. spcepickle*

      What you are describing is religious (no quote) discrimination. It is not the same as only hiring tennis team high school students, and then being shocked that they are all at the same tennis matches.
      Explaining in your job posting and in the interview that there are times of the year that leave will not be granted is fine, and in industries with really busy periods it is smart to be transparent. This might self select people, that is fine. Not hiring people with specific schools on their application is straight up discrimination and if you are in the US, illegal.

      1. StarTrek Nutcase*

        Wrong. College attended is not a protected class, and attending a so-called religious college does not necessarily mean the student is that religion or if so, observant. Obviously, it is illegal to discriminate based on religion AND poster should address any employees’ religious conflicts in an appropriate way – not simply not hiring based on college attendance.

        1. Arrietty*

          I believe it would absolutely be illegal in the UK at least, because refusing to hire anyone from a religious school would have a disparate impact on people from that religion, which is at the very least indirect discrimination.

      2. linger*

        They did not say they would refuse to hire another member of the college, only that they would keep track of the numbers hired simultaneously — because that was necessary to ensure coverage would be possible.
        (I’d fire the ones who made dishonest subbing arrangements. Nothing to do with religion. Everything to do with trust.)

      3. Cabubbles*

        I never said we didn’t hire them but that we were extra careful to stress scheduling policy before hiring them because they came from a group that was known to ignore scheduling policy.

      4. Wayward Sun*

        Surely it’s not reasonable to expect an employer to hire someone whose religion is incompatible with doing the job, though? Presumably you wouldn’t be required to hire an Amish person to be a bus driver, then just let them sit out every shift.

    8. Coverage Associate*

      On the religious discrimination issues, note that employers only have to make reasonable accommodations, and that federal law applies differently to seasonal jobs. So, ironically, if you’re hiring for a job that caters literally or figuratively for one religion’s holiday, you can probably not accommodate members of that same religion who want the holiday off. (Eg, if you’re hiring for Passover vacation programs, you don’t have to give people all of Passover off; or for an Easter retreat, you don’t have to give Easter off). OP did mention black out days.

      Second, I do raise my eyebrows at the special treatment of a particular school, especially as someone who attended a very religious school but isn’t a member of the religion.

      But I feel for OP, as it sounds like they were upfront about blackout days and got repeatedly burned.

    9. Elizabeth West*

      It seems like a self-created problem that the tennis club hires kids who are all on their tennis teams. Seems like you would want to some part-time people who are out of school and can cover.

  7. Adam*

    For LW3, this is why it’s so important to be explicit about what is and isn’t confidential with a manager. In my first 1:1 with every new report I had, in addition to discussions of management principles and such, I would tell them that I would generally maintain reasonable discretion about what we discussed but would share relevant things with my boss or others as needed be unless they specifically flagged something as confidential. (When I first became a manager I would give them a choice of whether they wanted to default to confidential or not, but literally nobody chose to make things confidential by default so I stopped asking.)

  8. TheBunny*

    OP#2

    I don’t have much to add aside from your story and Alison’s reply…just to say that by time I got to the end of your description of the event I was…stunned, or something…that anyone would send that out and then just say…nothing.

    I’m sorry you had to deal with this. I’m just sorry.

    1. LW*

      Thank you! When the picture first popped up I was eating lunch and I almost threw up. Just wild to me that we’ve come to a place where that sort of thing is handwaved away. Maybe an hour after I said something, we just got more pics of the booth and then members of the executive management team complimenting everyone on how our produce looked. I sincerely wish I was making this up.

      2. Quinine..I need quinine*

        That’s so messed up.. were there any signs of things like this before or did this whole thing come out of the blue? Sorry you have to deal with this crap

        1. LW*

          The executive management team, for the most part, has been very vocal about supporting Trump. This is despite the fact that what we sell will be greatly affected by the tariffs…mainly because they plan to pass the additional cost to consumers. At the start of the pandemic there were also some QAnon style text chains I was copied on, but once I started posting links debunking what they were claiming, I was removed from the chain.

          I went to a company dinner earlier this year and was blessed to listen to another executive in the company quote Trump’s “immigants are all rapists and criminals” word for word and ask me why I was okay with “those people” ruining our country. He also said Kamala slept her way to the top. I was truly hoping that was a one-off thing and not representative of the whole management team, but I was wrong. So, not totally out of the blue, but still horrifying!

          1. Zombeyonce*

            Please include that information if you send this photo to the media after you leave. I’m sorry you had to deal with racist bosses.

          2. Calamity Janine*

            oh jeez. yeah, there go any hopes of it somehow being a very bad joke that disastrously didn’t land. with all those opinions in play… that was done in sincerity.

            please do leave reviews on Glassdoor mentioning all of this when you leave. any replacements for you and your coworkers need to know about the threats to their safety if they get a job while being one of “those people” (and to a Nazi, the vast majority of us are “those people”…).

          3. Worldwalker*

            That adds a lot of context to your original letter.

            Particularly, it firmly seats the salute in the “I’m a Nazi” meaning instead of “You’re a Nazi” meaning, as Tesla owners have been facing lately.

            Get out. And sow the land with salt behind you.

            1. katydid*

              I didn’t know people were doing this to Tesla drivers and it is such a bad idea! Up there with putting swastikas on your protest materials. Please don’t use Nazi iconography to protest Nazis! It is way too easy for people to (intentionally) misread!

              1. Glen*

                I’m sorry, are you saying that calling someone a Nazi is equivalent to displaying a swastika?!

                1. Yours sincerely, Raymond Holt*

                  No, they seem to be saying that using a swastika or a Nazi salute as part of how you call someone else a Nazi or protest them is a bad idea as it can be misleading.

                  (Also a bad idea IMO because it still helps normalise that iconography and it can be pretty distressing for those of us who the Nazis historically targeted for elimination to see.)

                  Obviously, calling a Nazi a Nazi is not only fine, but extremely important to do.

          4. Richard Hershberger*

            “This is despite the fact that what we sell will be greatly affected by the tariffs…mainly because they plan to pass the additional cost to consumers.”

            Methinks they haven’t thought that entirely through.

          5. TheBunny*

            EEK. I’m so glad you are getting out. To me at least it’s worrisome that they support Trump but it’s another level that the salute was OK.

            It’s all bad but I think to me the action of the salute is almost more chilling than the words in other contexts. It just seems…more for some reason.

            I guess bottom line is I’m still horrified and sorry you are dealing with this.

          6. Elizabeth West*

            I’m so glad you’re getting out of there. The leopard is coming for their scummy asses.

      3. CrazyCatDude*

        I’m sorry you had to deal with it, but I admire you for not just letting it slide and actually pushing against it. Too many will just let it slide, unfortunately.

        I’d also recommend tipping off the local media and any professional organizations this person may be a member of.

  9. Viette*

    For LW #3, I personally think that telling your boss but refusing to name the employee comes across as missing the point of what both loyalty and leadership are about. Your motivation was that “as a leader at our store I did feel inclined to say something, knowing just how busy we are and how much of a detriment it will be when he leaves right now.” But not knowing which employee it is means the boss can’t do what they should to prepare for the upcoming issues, so the act of telling him has no function. You have processed the information and reshaped it so that it can’t be used for anything.

    Your sense of loyalty to your employee has clashed with your sense of loyalty to your workplace role, and you have poorly served both and distressed yourself for it. Leadership roles often result in conflicting loyalties. Part of being a leader is resolving those conflicts internally, according to your own values, such that your actions have both purpose and integrity. You tried not to have to choose, but you ended up with the worst of both choices.

    1. mao*

      But not knowing which employee it is means the boss can’t do what they should to prepare for the upcoming issues

      It’s enough information to know to start preparing for a potential hiring process, and over the weekend too, so it’s not coming in fresh and hot on a Monday. Knowing which specific employee doesn’t help the employer as much as it could potentially harm the employee if something happens with the other job offer.

      1. Ladida*

        I think this assumes the staff all have the same position. I think knowing which position, and thus which responsibilities, there will be a gap in is an important detail and may very well inform what happens next in terms of hiring and other short-term solutions. Ultimately, she should have just waited until Monday. That said, if I tell my boss on Friday that I will give notice on Monday….I have knowingly and effectively resigned on Friday.

      2. Worldwalker*

        It’s important for the boss to know that the employee preparing to leave is a salesman or an accountant, as a random example. Hiring may be similar, but arranging for coverage for the role (they’re not going to have someone hired and onboarded in two weeks!) will be different, and the sooner it’s started the better.

  10. Free Meerkats*

    LW2, Pass the photo on to your local news outlet that is not affiliated with Faux. Do it from a burner email that you create on a computer at your local library then never look at again from anywhere else.

    Then post it on Reddit from a burner account following the provisos in the first. Or just skip the first and do the second.

    1. LaminarFlow*

      I think that is exactly what I would do. I work in AI, and I am paranoid that facial recognition is everywhere, and used to identify individuals for a million different reasons. So, I would likely wear a non-descript outfit, no jewelry, cover any visible tattoos, and cover my face & hair as much as possible without seeming weird at the library. I would also leave my phone at home, or put it in a faraday pouch.

    1. Me*

      The LW also said, “Attending and not partaking feels somewhat awkward.” Attending and not partaking feels as awkward as you allow it to be. I sat next to a couple who kept strictly kosher at our big work end-of-the-year dinner. They didn’t eat but were completely blase about it, and it didn’t feel awkward at all after about a minute.

      I would also consider going to the restaurant in person beforehand if you can, and possibly even eating there. It seems that some of the LW’s anxiety is about the awkwardness of the situation, and being familiar with the place may help with that. (On a different note, if it took a dietician several months to figure out how you could eat enough calories and nutrients to live, you might benefit from a different health care team.)

      2. Nightengale*

        It can be pretty awkward from the organizers too. I recently attended an event where supposedly important work information was going to be disseminated. Previously we had only gotten basically sound bites on this new initiative so it was being sold to us as a way to learn more. (We did not really learn more.) The event was a big fancy dinner. I am not eating in large group settings due to COVID concerns so I RSVPed as I would be there – so they would let me in the door – but not for eating.

        They put me at a table by myself in case that would make me comfortable (I did not ask for this) and asked multiple times if I was really sure I wasn’t going to eat and they could still get me a dinner and etc. Showing up to a food event and not eating can REALLY bother people no matter how much the not-eating person tries to be casual and minimize it.

        Especially I have found at events where the food is supposed to be an incentive for coming to hear the speaker – they seem to take it very strangely when you show up to hear the speaker while refusing their food. On a much less grand level, medical school was full of lunch pizza events on topics. The events were in the regular lecture hall, not a restaurant. It was generally assumed you would show up for the pizza. Sometimes people came in, took pizza and left before the speaker started! But when I went to hear the speaker while eating my own lunch, that got comment after comment after comment.

        1. Yours sincerely, Raymond Holt*

          Yeah our workplace socials/lunch and learn type events often have pizza sitting around. I don’t love pizza at the best of times and it definitely isn’t what I want for lunch while I’m working (salt, bloat, tiredness, etc – just doesn’t work for me). And then it’s slightly cold, and getting colder by the minute, pizza, which different people are picking at and touching… (never unhygenically, it’s a me thing, not a them thing, bit just the idea of it… nope nope nope).

          If I join the meeting/social/learning either with my own food, or eat a sandwich at my desk before or after, people definitely worry that I’m being hostile in some way.

          In this case, I *think* it’s usually more about coworkers making sure I haven’t been excluded imadvertently or that I’m not feeling left out, which is nice! Sometimes people think I’m worried about calories or health and try to encourage me to have pizza. It isn’t that at all, I just don’t think pizza for lunch will ever be my thing. And the texture of slightly colding pizza and cheese… no thank you!

  12. cncx*

    For lw3, where I land is the resigning employee told other people, not just their manager. For me that waives the right to privacy vis a vis grand boss.

    1. WellRed*

      He never asked for so called privacy, that we know of. OP just got themselves in a dither.

      1. Snow Globe*

        Yes. I read it as the employee was probably out of town on PTO, so they were calling in to give the LW a head’s up as their manager, but would make it official when they were back in the office. That doesn’t sound like secrecy was expected.

    2. AlsoADHD*

      I don’t think they wanted privacy. They told their boss and coworkers, and didn’t ask not to share.

  13. secret cat*

    LW4 – it’s funny that the boss at a tennis club is upset that the workers at the tennis club are all (gasp) involved in tennis.

    1. Anon for this*

      Yes, this can’t possibly be the first time! I work in a small business in a small town that is very big on sport, and we employ a few teenagers for after-school and weekend work. We make sure that no more than half of them are involved in the Saturday sports because we need to roster *somebody* on and the kids are going to very reasonably prioritise their team over their part-time entry level job. And every second game is away, often quite a long distance, so they can’t do a partial day either.

    3. AngryOctopus*

      I mean, he hired a bunch of high school kids! It’s not ridiculous to think that a bunch of HS kids who take jobs at a tennis club might actually be involved in tennis and have to go to meets!

      1. Collarbone High*

        As a teenager I worked at an amusement center that was entirely staffed by students from the nearest high school, and every year management would be baffled and furious when the entire staff requested prom night and graduation day off.

        This doesn’t help the LW right now, but one thing that helped my employer was keeping a roster of previous employees who were willing to freelance to provide coverage during those kinds of events. I did that in college – sure, my skills were rusty, but I didn’t care about prom as a college sophomore and was happy to makes some money running a concession stand for a few hours while the high school staff went to the dance.

      2. Worldwalker*

        I got the impression from the letter that he specifically hired HS tennis team players, for obvious reasons … then had a “what’s more important to you, the team you hope will lead to a college scholarship and a career, or this minimum-wage part-time job? Only the second response is permissible” reaction when said team members fulfilled their responsibilities to the team (and their own futures).

      3. Calamity Janine*

        it’s whiffs of “of course i want college educated employees! don’t wanna pay for a fully finished degree though so i will hire students, but i’m not gonna give my employee the day off for her graduation even though she told me clearly in advance about this”, isn’t it? one of the most unjust bosses who live in absolute infamy among Ask A Manager classics…

        …which makes it doubly silly when someone down thread showed up to defend the attitude, lol.

      4. GreenApplePie*

        It’s kind of unreal how many adults (who presumably finished high school) don’t seem to understand that it’s normal for teenagers to prioritize school and be busy during school hours. Can’t tell you how many times teenage me had someone get all huffy and tell me to drop out so I could pick up more shifts or attend some event. Trying to schedule doctor’s appointments was the absolute worst.

        1. Six for the truth over solace in lies*

          Yes, high school students are a situation where the barrier to quitting tends to be low. Their incentives are different because most of them don’t need to pay rent or feed themselves, so as an employer, you need to be aware that they can and will walk away much more easily than adults, because their needs and priorities are different.

          This is the flip side of “at will employment means they can fire you for wearing a green shirt if they feel like it.” The employee can quit if they don’t like your shirt, too—or in this case, if they don’t want to miss a tournament. Sauce for the goose, etc.

    4. Teacher Lady*

      Yeah, this genuinely seems like something the boss should have anticipated and planned for.

      1. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

        Had the boss written in, my advice would be to ask for the season’s scheduling conflicts at the time of hire. “Find someone to cover” makes it seem like there’s probably someone else that is likely to be available, and a bunch of high school students aren’t likely to have the savvy to figure out that they are their own coverage pool.

        1. DJ Abbott*

          IMO “find someone to cover” is putting management responsibility on employees. You’re the manager, dude. At least try to manage!

    5. ItsAllFunAndGamesUntil*

      They seemingly basically hired the entire HS tennis team as their only employees and then is going around shocked that they all have tennis tournaments to attend at the same time.

    6. sparkle emoji*

      I wonder if he’s brand new to this because this is such a predictable issue. It’s extra headache to be draconian and expect people to miss school events vs planning ahead by not hiring exclusively from local high school tennis teams.

      1. Crencestre*

        Sounds as if the high school student employees are brand new to the world of work – and are very privileged to boot! Love to see their expressions when they finally land their first full-time jobs after college and find out that – shockingly! – their manager does. not. care. that they want to attend this or that sports event during the company’s busiest time of year. And even MORE shockingly, they’re expected to put their job before playing tennis with their besties! Oh, the cosmic injustice of it all…not!

        1. Owl*

          When you’re in high school, school is more important that work. When you’re on a school sports team, those events count as well. I’m sure these students will have surprises when they enter the adult work force for real — everyone does! — but I don’t see any unwarranted entitlement here. They are prioritizing correctly.

          1. CeramicSun*

            Exactly. Plus those students could potentially get tennis scholarships for college which would mean more money than the money earned working at the tennis club.

          2. Six for the truth over solace in lies*

            Plus, I sincerely doubt that the boss would hesitate to fire or lay off these part-time employees if it was in his best interests. That’s how at will employment works: both sides get to end the relationship if it doesn’t work out for them. And high school students are among the employees most capable of using that fact.

        2. Rincewind*

          they’re attending as a /player/ though, not spectators. without players there IS no tournament; there’s no sport at all.

          And a high school kid should absolutely be prioritizing their school activities (to include extracurriculars) over a BS weekend job that they’re probably going to quit after the summer.

        3. sparkle emoji*

          They’re being hired due to their tennis skills, which likely come from the coaching they get being on these high school teams. Please put aside your grudge to live in reality. This is an entirely predictable business problem that management created through poor decision making, not the fault of the spoiled kids you’re upset with.

        4. doreen*

          Or maybe they wouldn’t be shocked – maybe they’ve decided that playing on their high school tennis team is more important than their part time job. People who hire high school students should understand that they can’t have the same expectations they have of adults – sure, you can say that nobody can take time off during the busy summer season. But if you hire 15 and 16 year olds, you can’t be surprised that their parents don’t want to schedule their vacation around their kid’s schedule and also don’t want to leave the kid home alone for a week. So your choice might end up being give Susie the first week of August off or Susie quits and you don’t have her for the rest of the season. And if you are going to hire high school tennis players, you ought to expect that they will have tournaments. My guess is that this is the reason I see fewer high school aged kids working than I used to.

          1. Op 4 & possible helicopter*

            Thank you! As his parent, its been tricky to navigate wanting him to see the realities of the working world and made hard choices sometimes, but eventually it seemed like this is not personal to my son. I question whether adults are more willing to blame teenagers rather than take a step back and look at the issue as a whole. His manager is sunk in the tedium of who requested time off first and how much in advance etc etc rather than, “why is my weekend staff that has been very very reliable until now suddenly so flaky?”
            All these responses have been validating that my son is prioritizing correctly here and valid for being willing to leave.

            1. Nobby Nobbs*

              One of the realities of the working world IS that some parts of your non-work life are more important than some or occasionally any jobs. I’m glad that you’re feeling validated in supporting your son in standing up for himself.

        5. GammaGirl1908*

          That’s very true once you’re out of school, but that doesn’t really apply here. The fault is totally on the manager who hired a bunch of 15-year-olds, and is now shocked that their school obligations need to come first. This manager probably needs to suck it up himself for these 4 weekends, or get a temp or two.

          This is reminiscent of the letter from the job recruiter who was interviewing college kids, but was shocked that all of the students were declining to interview during finals week.

          1. The Rural Juror*

            It reminds me of a summer job I once had. I actually would have wanted to stay on and work in the evenings after school but the manager wouldn’t approve my request to change from the day shift. They were somehow surprised when I quit. Even when I said, “I’ve told you multiple times that I’m still in high school.” Some people seem to choose to filter out information they deem inconvenient.

        6. Calamity Janine*

          yeah, it’s very entitled of the manger to hire high schoolers who have developed a specific skill, while knowing they have commitments to continue developing that skill, and then be shocked that the employees have those commitments that he hired them knowing they all had. and then telling them to do his work as manager by finding their own coverage? sheesh, this manager really IS entitled in making a perfectly avoidable mess that’s why he’s there as manager and then blaming it all on his employees instead of his own lack of foresight! i hope you’re right in that the working world won’t put up with this entitlement for long, and –

          oh wait. hmm

        7. metadata minion*

          Plenty of people prioritize a serious hobby/side gig/religious obligation/etc. in considering what jobs they apply for. It’s completely fine to decide “no, I will not work on Thursday evenings; that’s when I watch Star Trek reruns with my besties”. It’s going to be harder if you’re trying to find jobs in a restaurant, but not everyone prioritizes work above all else and it’s particularly common in part-time work to pick job hours that fit around your actual life priorities.

          This is absolutely on the boss to not realize what would happen when all his part-time employees play the same sport in the same school district.

        8. Worldwalker*

          It’s not “privileged” to prioritize something important to your future — for example, potential college scholarships; yes, they do give scholarships to players of sports other than football! — over a part-time, probably minimum wage, and definitely temporary, job at a tennis club.

          It’s not about “playing tennis with their besties” (they may well hate each others’ guts) — it’s about knowingly hiring people who will have certain commitments, and refusing to allow them to fulfill those commitments. Just because the commitments involve a sports team does not make them any less commitments.

          Are you perhaps the boss who refused to allow their best employee to have a day off for her own college graduation and then seemed so shocked when she quit … and wanted to know, if I recall correctly, how to castigate her for doing so?

        9. knitted feet*

          Obviously high schoolers are new to the world of work. We don’t send five year olds up chimneys any more.

          And if you hire high schoolers, you know you’re getting inexperienced people whose first commitment is to school and important extracurriculars, not to the crappy weekend job they do for pocket money. That’s how you get em so cheap. Committed professionals cost more.

        10. missing the point*

          You ok there? You seem to be taking a lifetime of unhappiness out on a teenage kid.

        11. LynnP*

          Some of those students need the recommendations from the tennis coaches and the possibility of scholarship money even if small to attend college. High school sports and activities usually have grueling schedules, these students are not privileged and entitled, they sound incredibly hard working.

        12. SleepyHollowGirl*

          Maybe, but I’ll bet most of them (all of them?) wouldn’t have taken the job in the first place if they realized they’d have to quit the tennis team.

          Moreover, I’ll bet in hiring next year, the manager might actually prefer someone on the tennis team to someone off the tennis team, at least because the ones on the team are getting more intensive tennis practice. (And you certainly can’t stay on the tennis team if you miss those meets!) So someone who misses the meets this year for that job likely can’t be on the tennis team next year and so might not be hired in the next year.

          My oldest kid works at a martial arts place that hires a lot of high schoolers, and to their credit, they work around the high schoolers schedules pretty well.

  14. Ys*

    In a perfect world, the company would have to consider the impact of covering for bigots on employee retention.

    In an old job where we often worked directly with vulnerable groups, especially women, we found out one guy was an active and vocally hateful member of manosphere hate groups. The org opted to just give him a warning. 9 of us made clear that we would walk if he wasn’t let go entirely.

    They did let him go but the damage to trust had been done and six of us left within the year largely because of the org’s response.

    1. Lemons*

      I watched this happen at my old company, except they opted to let people quit and keep the awful guy, who was like, genuinely not very good at his job and caused lots of interpersonal problems at work. People are weird.

      1. Richard Hershberger*

        My guess is the higher ups interpreted the threats to quit as a power play by underlings that must be repulsed, not as a considered response to a problem that was entirely within the higher ups’ power to solve. This itself suggests that leaving is in order. Awful Guy just made this apparent.

        1. Silver Robin*

          it is always amusing to me when people in power respond to collective pushback as if it were manipulation. “They’re just doing this so I will do what they want!” “They’re just using scare tactics to change my mind.”….Yes? That is the whole point? It is this weird myopic perspective that assumes protest is just about getting under leadership’s skin for the sake of…. being annoying I guess? As if people could not possibly genuinely disagree with the decision and want a different outcome.

          1. MigraineMonth*

            Yeah, but once a group of employees gets a taste of power, you know they’ll run mad with it. What’s next, demands for bathroom breaks? An end to child labor? Weekends??

            This power struggle must be nipped in the bud, even if we destroy ourselves doing so. /s

        3. Andie Begins*

          My guess is that the higher ups agreed with and valued the priorities of the employee they kept over the employees they lost.

  15. Ellen*

    I’m so sorry, OP2; I can barely believe this is happening in 2025. My heart goes out to you!

  16. OhNoKenobi*

    In Letter #2, the saluter was “disciplined”, but what about the VP who thought it was okay to share such a horrible photo!

    2. The Body Is Round*

      Yeah the solution here is not to get an apology for either the salute or the photo. The guy in the photo knew what he was about, and his higher-ups letting him get away with it are likely on his side.

      1. Fierce Jindo*

        And the COO who took the picture thinks it’s great. This whole company is irredeemable.

    3. Quinine..I need quinine*

      If this guy is the COO, then it’s really on the CEO or even board to do. something about it.. unfortunately this guy is probably 2nd or 3rd in command in the whole company, so it’s not surprising he’s feeling no repercussions

    4. AndersonDarling*

      And who took the photo!?! Why wasn’t it reported and removed from the file?
      This sounds deep. The saluter felt it was okay to make the statement, those around him saw the spectacle and took a photo, and it was shared among the leadership. I’m betting that there wasn’t any discipline because leadership is a part of it.

    6. Calamity Janine*

      the LW has commented a few times and apparently this isn’t… out of character for some of the higher ups, where Trumpian and Qanon rhetoric have already come up fully supported and one of the bosses at an event demanded to know how she could be okay with “those people” (meaning immigrants) “ruining the country”.

      evil bees. evil Nazi bees all the way down. it explains a lot about why they thought the photo was okay, in the same way it explains the air conditioning not working adequately when the building is on fire.

      1. OP2*

        It’s really hard for me to comprehend that people aren’t completely repulsed by Hitler and Nazis and eugenics, let alone that they actually share those beliefs. Like…I just struggle to wrap my mind around it. My grandfather and my great-uncle served in WWII; my great-uncle never made it home. We fought a whole world war! How is this even up for debate? Even knowing that they support Trump, it still seems like a leap to being okay with the Holocaust, you know? I live in a blue state and surround myself with liberals, so maybe I’m naive.

        1. E*

          I know what you mean. It’s so weird that MAGA idealization of America for white people in past times somehow also forgets that Americans were fighting against the people they’re now idealizing.

          When I lived in the Republic of Georgia there was a lot of fanfare around Stalin, because he was born Georgian. Despite all the atrocities including those inflicted on Georgians, many people idealized him still as a “strong man”. I think the same could be happening here with Nazis. I also think some of these nutters might be holocaust deniers. And a lot of them are actively anti-semetic.

          So I share your horror and disgust and sense of the irrationality/hypocrisy of it, but also can’t say I’m surprised.

          Glad you’re getting out.

        2. Calamity Janine*

          i wish sometimes i could understand it because that’s what you need to do to draw someone out of the faulty logic – find out what path they ended up on erroneously. but like you… i have no idea. nazi ideology is like the classic joke answer of a turtle on a fence post. how did the turtle get up there? why is the turtle up there? the turtle is not suited to be up there on any level! how do you talk to turtles in order to convince them to get off of fence posts when all of those questions are so baffling??

          i have noticed that quite a lot of it depends on weird compartmentalizing – and just plain looking for excuses to be ugly. i think that’s now a large part of it. just excuses to be cruel for sport. that’s why i can’t use any of what i consider normal rhetoric or logic – that other people suffer is the most important thing over their own lives. it’s cheerful cruelty to themselves as much as others, just as long as they think others suffer more. how do you connect with someone’s humanity in such a state? how do you get them to see you are also human? i’ve stopped being able to get even an “oh, but you’re one of the good ones!” at this point.

          the person who’s come closest to figuring it out is probably Umberto Eco, in essays that i have put off reading because sometimes being a mediocre leftist means playing dodgeball with actually reading theory lol. but an excerpt from him gave me the concept that has brought me closest to understanding it: fascism is a death cult. how do you get them to care about other people? can’t, it’s a death cult. how do you get them to care about themselves? can’t, it’s a death cult. how do you get them to care about the consequences of cruelty (because humans are at heart pack creatures and we invented society for advantageous reasons, and compassion is literally an evolutionary strategy at the very base level)? …can’t. it’s a death cult.

          i don’t know how to persuade or argue someone out of a death cult, but that’s at least knowing the shape of the problem a bit better.

  17. Longtime Lurker*

    #5–I’m also involved on a sports team and have Saturday commitments…which I’m not always able to honor! It may be different when you’re in high school (I only had summer work, not weekend work back then, so ymmv) but I think it would also be a good exercise for the kid to accept he has to balance these things and on occasion, work might win out. How big is his work team? If it’s four weekends and they all agree to cover one rather than go tourney-ing, would that be enough coverage?

    2. YetAnotherAnalyst*

      As a parent, the priority goes school commitments > extracurricular commitments> work commitments > social commitments, every time. The monetary value of what he stands to lose if he gets fired from his minimum wage weekend job is a fraction of what he stands to lose if he gets booted from his varsity sport.

      1. Cthulhu’s Librarian*

        Meh. Varsity sports in high school really don’t have a significant impact on anything in the future, unless the player is a) naturally talented already and b) attending a fairly competitive school district.

        Most varsity athletes will never see any benefit to their future from their participation in the sport, beyond what the sport inherently provides regarding health.

        1. Cthulhu’s Librarian*

          And to provide context for why I say varsity sports have negligible impact – the highest estimates I’ve seen in literature on the matter are that only 2% of varsity athletes actually receive any level of scholarship or increased consideration from colleges.

          Focusing on academics makes sense from how it pays off. But extracurriculars much less so.

          1. Worldwalker*

            That 2% isn’t even, though. For example, the number is lower for football players because there are so many of them. Every school with a football program can supply dozens. Less-popular sports actually get more consideration from colleges because there aren’t as many, say, lacrosse players.

            And whether it has a financial impact or not, breaking one’s commitments to a team in favor of a part-time job that knew about the commitment ahead of time is neither honorable nor practical.

          2. Turquoisecow*

            No, most varsity high school athletes do not go on to play professionally, but participating in team sports and other extracurricular activities does make a difference on college applications and especially scholarships that help pay for college.

            Anyone who employs college or high school students should know that kids do and should prioritize education including educational extracurricular activities way above whatever minimum wage job they’re working at for zero benefits. When I worked retail we understood and respected the availability of all our student employees and didn’t schedule them during classes, sports practices or competitions, band practice, graduations, or anything like that. Mind boggling to me that anyone hiring multiples of high school students wouldn’t do the same thing!

            1. Gray Lady*

              What CL said was that only 2% get ANY consideration in scholarships or admissions.

              I do think it’s on the person who knowingly hired a bunch of kids proficient in a sport and is shocked, shocked that they have commitments to that sport, but it’s a rare case that prioritizing sports in high school has any real material payoff. It’s an exceptional situation, not a general rule for priorities.

        2. Former Varisty Athelete*

          Most varsity athletes do see benefits beyond what the sport inherently provides regarding health. There are other benefits, it is just a question of do you value those benefits.

          Improved self-esteem
          Development of resilience and coping skills
          Emotional regulation
          Communication and social skills
          Teamwork and collaboration
          Sportsmanship and respect
          Discipline and time management

          And yes, there are “other” ways to learn these things, that doesn’t partition in a sport invalid.

          1. Former Varsity Athelete*

            “And yes, there are “other” ways to learn these things, that doesn’t make participation in a sport invalid.”

            What I wouldn’t give for an edit option!

        3. Snackmonster*

          Hard disagree with your contention that high school sport does not have a significant impact on the future. Will they be among the small number of athletes that play at a college level AND receive full scholarships AND/OR NIL deals? Probably not, but sports teaches many life lessons that translate into real life. Persistence, time management, self sacrifice, teamwork, ability to overcome obstacles, problem solving, leadership…how are these not applicable to the real world? I say this as a parent of a college athlete that is happy to have the opportunity to continue the sport she loves, not because of the money/scholarship/glory (women’s wrestling-so not much of any of those), but for the love of the sport.

          1. The Rural Juror*

            Many baseball players from my small high school received partial scholarships. We all know how expensive higher education is – every little bit helps!

        4. PhyllisB*

          In the long run, maybe. But varsity sports participation leads to college scholarships and that IS a big deal.

        5. Names are Hard*

          This is about tennis and not band, so probably not tied to a class at school, but if my kids missed any marching activities, it affected their grade. That’s probably not the case here, but you always prioritize things attached to school over work. I’d imagine that if a kid on the tennis team said they were going to miss a tournament it would affect their chances of staying on the team going forward. Yeah, they might not end up with a scholarship or go on to play in college, but it will be a hit to have a sport taken away that they probably love playing since they not only play for the school but also have made it a part-time job.

        6. Ginger Cat Lady*

          Way to say you only value money.
          There are lots more reasons high school sports have value beyond $$$$$

          1. Nobby Nobbs*

            Including happiness. People have listed a lot of really great practical reasons, but prioritizing something that makes you feel good has practical benefits as well.

        7. MigraineMonth*

          I actually agree that varsity sports doesn’t have a huge impact on the vast majority of students’ futures. However, neither does a part-time job when they’re fifteen. LW’s son could probably drop either without significant repercussions to his future.

          However, there are significant effects to his present. He could lose his spot on the varsity team, he could let down his team/doubles partner, he could lose the recommendation from a coach he was counting on (which can be as important as a job recommendation). Tournaments tend to be pretty big deals when you’re on varsity teams. It’s far more likely to affect him socially if he has any friends on the team.

          Also, he presumably *got* his current job in part due to being on the tennis team; losing that spot might ironically make his job less secure, and there’s no guarantee he’ll keep his job even if he loses his team slot for it.

          1. Dahlia*

            Sometimes in high school the sport you play also counts as your PE credit, so it could also affect his grades.

        8. Wayward Sun*

          As far as I can tell school sports mostly exist to create a sort of class system where some students are allowed to assault other students with no consequences.

    3. But Of Course*

      Tennis is a team sport, and the players may (or may not) be counting on qualifying for tennis scholarships for college. It almost never makes sense to prioritize a high school job over an something like that; if LW’s son plays doubles tennis, but his partner doesn’t work at the same job, this plan now means two students are impacted. The boss should have thought through the ramifications of not hiring a diverse worker pool (yes, I am being kind of mean, but wow is this the sport equivalent of only hiring college-educated white guys to do programming in Big Tech). Since he didn’t beforehand, I think there’s more onus on the boss to figure it out than the LW’s son.

      1. Sloanicota*

        I was picturing the kids were acting as tennis coaches or pros or something, meaning being good at tennis was an essential function of the job they’re doing at the club. So the pay and hours necessitates high school kids, but the skills involved mean they’re probably on the team.

        1. But Of Course*

          I mean, to be blunt, you then need to change the pay and hours to afford at least one adult. I had to do more googling than I liked to even write my first comment, so I’m out of my depth, but presumably there are adults out there who like tennis, aren’t competing in hight school tournaments, and are available on weekends. If you HAVE to hire minor students (you can more easily exploit…) your business model isn’t set up right.

          1. Jay (no, the other one)*

            Or your business model is set up fine for summers when the kids aren’t competing, but not for the last month of the school year. Either way it was entirely predictable and is definitely the boss’s problem.

          2. Antilles*

            This is a very common model for tennis clubs and plenty of other similar businesses, because you need employees who are:
            (a) Willing/able to give up their weekends for an hourly rate.
            (b) Not looking for full-time or year-round work because most of your customer base is only going to be there on weekends, during daylight hours, and on days with good weather.
            (c) At least some knowledge of the sport.
            Most adults aren’t going to fit into all of those categories, but local high schoolers very much do. And it works just fine approximately 98% of the time. It’s just that the model struggles during the two weekends of State Regionals when all the high school players simultaneously need the time off.
            The usual answer here would be some combination of the owner working extra hours himself, temporarily bringing back some former employees who are done with high school but still around (e.g., attending a local college), or possibly reducing your services for that short period.

          3. The Person from the Resume*

            The LW’s son and his cohort is described as “weekend employees.” Perhaps there are adults or college students who work weekdays but the weekends are covered by only high school students. Or maybe there are older employees around on weekends but their role is different enough that they don’t cover the high school employee’s jobs.

            I agree the boss has a bit of problem and that most high schoolers will pick their team over this job. In this case, it’s the boss’s problem to solve, but I suppose the son could be fired.

        2. sparkle emoji*

          If all people in this role must have a high baseline knowledge of tennis and they can only pay for high school students, then the coaching services provided by the high school students need to be paused during the tournaments. If it’s more important to have uninterrupted service, the club either needs some available subs with the baseline knowledge(former employees? management?) to come on the tournament weekends OR have some employees without the tennis knowledge come from a different department and supervise, sacrificing one weekend of instruction. As is, the boss has tried nothing and is all out of ideas.

    4. ecnaseener*

      I see where you’re coming from, but I actually don’t think it’s a good exercise for the kid to accept that work wins out just because. I’d rather he get practice weighing the realities of different options, including the option of losing a job and accepting those consequences. It’s good to learn that you’re allowed to leave a job that’s no longer working for you (especially in a case like this where your boss is going back on terms you agreed on, assuming the kid was open about the tennis schedule from the start).

      1. me*

        I agree that, in high school, serious extracurriculars take precedence over a weekend job in most situations.

        As others have pointed out, most teenage athletes won’t play professionally, and many don’t even play when they get to college. A varsity high school tournament may be the most challenging games they play in their lives, and it’s a big deal to compete. I think it’s super important to let kids be kids and enjoy this moment that they may not get again. It would be terrible to take that away because the club can’t figure out a schedule. Not everything needs to be about life lessons, resumes, or personal development (although I do agree that we do get supplemental benefits from most things that we dedicate ourselves to)

        This is also like the letter of a young adult (in high school or college) who was trying to figure out whether to take a family vacation or work their retail(?) job over a school break, and the advice was similar to my thoughts here – go on vacation and enjoy the time you have with your before more serious responsibilities hit.

        1. Worldwalker*

          This.

          A high school student is not an adult, and should have the opportunity to enjoy the last bits of not being an adult before they spend the rest of their lives prioritizing work over life. In their work/life balance equation, “life” should have a heavy thumb on the scale.

    5. Quinalla*

      Have to disagree with you here. High school employees should be putting school first (including sports, band, etc.) and work a distant second. Employers generally know that when hiring them and it sounds like the employer knew they had these commitments when he hired them. I’m not sure if he was hoping he could intimidate some of them into work and missing their games or just one of those who hopes everything will magically work out, but I do think the employer is ridiculous here.

      1. No Tribble At All*

        A huge championship tournament — the culmination of basically his entire teenage life’s tennis training — or working a regular job shift, something he’ll do every day as an adult? Skip work, go to the tournament!

    6. My Brain is Exploding*

      FYI at my kids’ school, if you were in a varsity sport it counted as a PE credit. If you were booted from the team (like for not participating) you’d have to get that credit somehow.

      1. sb51*

        Mine too. And if you wanted to take certain electives that were seen as basically mandatory for getting into a good school (art, music, foreign languages) they were much easier to schedule if you didn’t also have to fit PE in.

    7. NobodyHasTimeForThis*

      Presumably to be hired at a tennis club they are pretty good. It is a pretty hard thing for your team if a significant number of the top players miss every tournament. And don’t think scholarships just happen at the DI level. I know a fair number of kids who are at D3 schools who magically got academic scholarships because they are good at the sport that particular school cares about.

  18. General von Klinkerhoffen*

    Re LW4, I will die on the hill that it is management’s responsibility to find cover and ensure adequate staffing.

    If you know (and they must know) that summer weekends are chocka with tennis tournaments, and you need weekend coverage, then you hire summer weekend temps, or say explicitly that new hires will need to commit to all summer weekends so those who can’t will know not to apply.

      1. GammaGirl1908*

        I’ll be pedantic: it may be the employee’s responsibility to find coverage, but it is definitely management’s job to ensure that there is coverage available to be found in the first place.

        THAT is where this manager has fallen down on the job.

        1. General von Klinkerhoffen*

          No, it’s not the employee’s responsibility, because you cannot have responsibilities where you do not have authority. Dropping a message in the “who wants to pick up a shift” group chat is a courtesy to coworkers which additionally has the potential to benefit the whole.

    2. Ginger Cat Lady*

      I agree. My high school aged teen once had a job where the manager would schedule her during school hours and expect her to find a sub. He said it was “too hard” to make a schedule otherwise.
      Might be hard, dude, but it is YOUR job. Not hers.

  19. Quinine..I need quinine*

    For #1, why not go to the lunch but just have coffee or water or something like that? It would seem being there to celebrate is the point, not the food itself.

    1. But Of Course*

      Because people are extremely weird about food (and alcohol, not that that’s the LW’s problem here). Sometimes you don’t want to spend every meal explaining why you’re not eating, no, you can’t even taste that, no, you’re fine (especially unlikely to actually be true if this is taking place over a typical meal time where you don’t get to eat), no, please leave me alone about this. And that’s just at the meal; it says nothing about what people will decide they know better about LW’s situation than she does; the entire internet, and particularly this site, is full of accounts of people pushing their preferred nutrition choices over someone else’s knowledge of their own needs. The fact it’s disguised as help doesn’t make it better.

      LW doesn’t have to set herself up for something she can’t safely do to appease everyone else. Presumably she wouldn’t be expected to cancel a dr’s appointment if she had a conflict with the lunch; on the same way that wouldn’t be expected, the group will be fine without her if the restaurant won’t let her bring in her own food or if she feels that’s still not safe.

    2. Dr. Rebecca*

      Depending on the type/severity of allergies, it’s possible to get cross-contamination from improperly cleaned tableware. Going but not eating also opens up the LW to nosy/intrusive/rude comments–everything from not being grateful enough for what the company is doing for them, to speculation on their health/eating disorder status, to people who think allergies are fake trying to contaminate LW’s safe foods when they bring them to work.

    3. Mockingjay*

      Because it can be very awkward to just sit while everyone else eats.

      I don’t have allergies, but I don’t drink alcohol. I have dealt with many similar situations in which the office hosts events in bars and craft breweries and my only option is water or soda (and I don’t care for most sodas).

      The issue is one of participatory perception. It’s great that offices want to host achievement celebrations, however there is no magic restaurant or venue that can perfectly accommodate every single employee need and preference. Yet presence often counts – “aren’t you coming to celebrate with the team?” My solution is to attend one or two events per year (team events) and let the rest (big corporate events) slide.

      1. Quinine..I need quinine*

        It just seems very common to me to have group lunches, especially work related, where for one reason or another not everyone is eating or drinking. There may be some mild awkwardness on the part of the LW, but most likely the other people couldn’t care less what someone is ordering or not.

        But that all assumes LW wants to attend in the first place – if not then yes the food situation is a good get out of jail free card here.

    4. Parrhesia25*

      In my experience going to an event like this and then not eating (or eating much less or much cheaper than the rest of the group) invites more comment than just not showing. A lot of people are just plain weird about other people’s eating habits and think it is appropriate to comment on them. And a lot of people are really good-hearted and will feel bad that you cannot “fully” participate and will work far too hard to accommodate you even after you ask them not to.
      Finally, there is a good chance that you will actually be hungry and will either have to eat before or sit there and watch people eat with your stomach growling. Not fun.

    5. Ginger Cat Lady*

      I wondered that, too, because OP says that is what they “typically” do. So if it is okay for them to do it other times, why are they trying to get out of this specific dinner?
      If OP has done the “just have something to drink” on multiple previous occasions with these people, allergies are not going to fly as the reason for skipping this one.
      I feel like there’s more here and the real question is “can I blame it on allergies when I want to skip an event and still participate with just a drink when that’s more pleasant?”

      1. Quinine..I need quinine*

        I agree – I think if the LW wants to attend this is an easily navigable situation. If she doesn’t she has a good excuse. Either is fine btw

      2. I went to school with only 1 Jennifer*

        Why is this specific dinner different from all other celebratory dinners?

        Because of this: “After a recent success, however, one of the higher-ups is bringing my team and another to a fancy local restaurant for a celebratory lunch.” There’s a higher-up involved (who probably doesn’t know LW well if at all), plus another team who isn’t the LW’s team and probably doesn’t know them well (if at all).

        1. Office Hedgehog*

          Wish I could upvote this! There’s a difference between doing something ‘weird’ or ‘unusual’ at a casual outing versus a big company lunch. I could absolutely see a version of this where a higher-up has feelings about someone not eating.

    6. Worldwalker*

      Because it sucks to be the person drinking a glass of water when everyone around you is eating lunch? It sucked hard enough when it was a choice — the group I was with somewhere decided we’d go to a seafood restaurant and I hate seafood, but I could have eaten something if I was desperate — it would suck harder if I didn’t even have the option.

  20. Quinine..I need quinine*

    For #5..is this a new club? What did they do all the other years – this can’t have been the first time this has come up?

  21. Account*

    It is so funny that the boss in the last letter hired an entire team of tennis players for his tennis business, and is then shocked when they all have to leave for tennis tournaments. Facepalm.

    1. Constance Lloyd*

      Yeah, this reminds me of my high school job selling poolside concessions, which decided in my second summer to only hire kids 18+ in case they wanted them to sub as bartenders, and then was stunned they all left before Labor Day to go back to college.

      1. Generic Name*

        The public pools in my (northern) area plan their summer opening schedules around the local high school calendar because most of the workers are high school students.

        1. Zombeyonce*

          Even the local roller rink in my town plans around school schedules because their employees are almost exclusively high school students. Sure, they miss out on money during spring break but they couldn’t have made it anyway since all but 1 or 2 of their employees are out of town. It makes life so much less stressful for those teenagers, too, knowing they don’t have to choose between family vacations and work.

      2. MigraineMonth*

        Reminds me of the guy who emailed my college list-serv of babysitters for someone to watch his kids the weekend before finals and was pissed the students were studying instead.

        Also funny: he wanted to pay a college student $18 to feed, bathe and put his three kids to bed on a Saturday night and stay for 5 hours. I wrote back saying I wasn’t interested but FYI, all campus jobs paid $9/hr. He responded with a tirade about how I was a selfish greedy woman who hated children. Right, because it’s selfish to want to be paid more than minimum wage for babysitting, but not to leave one’s kids with a stranger you’re paying less than $4/hour in order to (checks notes) perform in a band.

  22. Ms.Vader*

    LW #1 – I also have a lot of allergies which makes it difficult for group lunches. I’d encourage you to at least go and explain ahead that you can’t eat but still want to be part of the celebration. It could be an important event to miss out on with a higher up.

    1. Rogue Slime Mold*

      Also, restaurants that are (rightly) diligent about not letting you apply the life hack to use them as a free public space for your picnic will get that “The company is paying for lunch for 15 people, and the 16th with severe allergies will bring a snack that’s safe for them to eat” is a very different scenario, one where the restaurant comes out ahead by being flexible and accommodating to this rare problem.

      1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

        Depends whether the restaurant is popular enough that they normally fill all their seats. Team meals are not usually at UNpopular places.
        For meals with say 10+ other people, some restaurants would do a nominal “seat price” for people who can’t eat there, which represents their typical seat profit plus tip (so the waitstaff don’t lose out either). Their experience is that few people who just sit sipping cola will tip as for a full meal.

      2. DJ Abbott*

        I also have allergies that require me to make all my food, including bread.
        When I go out, I bring some small nut butter sandwiches in my purse. If I end up at a restaurant, I find something I can order if possible, and eat the bread with it. If there’s nothing I can eat there, I just eat the bread.
        I do this discreetly without mentioning it to the restaurant. So far, I’ve never had anyone object. And I always tip well, as if I’d had a meal.
        Variation – if I know it’s going to be a meal at an event or social hour – adding chicken to the sandwiches and maybe some pieces of vegetable. Then I carry it in a small insulated lunchbox. I haven’t done this in a regular restaurant though.

        1. kalli*

          For me it’s baked tofu and carrot sticks or grapes, and I’ve done it in a regular restaurant with no dramas. Generally they don’t serve plain baked tofu or raw carrot, the waiters clock the difference and figure it out real quick.

      3. Nerf*

        This also reminds me of situations where people have significant religious restrictions on what they eat. From what I’ve gathered, if you have a big team meeting and a kosher employee needs to have a kosher meal brought in separately, that’s totally fine and doable even at extremely fancy places. This is a large burden on the employee to have to figure this out if they want to eat with their team and obviously “unfair”, but it also is what it is. I hope they can figure out how much effort they want to put into it, be able to do so, and also not get any side eye.

  23. TheLoaf*

    LW2: I think you should directly call out the salute in your resignation letter. Committing that reason to writing is a very strong rejection of the company’s values. I would say also bring it up verbally in any exit interviews, but putting it in writing makes it crystal clear that you refuse to accept their normalization of nazism. Another commenter also suggested contacting local news; I don’t see anything wrong with leaking the photo once you’ve left, whether it’s to the news or to anti-hate community groups. Nazis and those who support them should be publicly shamed.

    1. MsM*

      Send it to the trade show as well. Although perhaps I’m being overly optimistic that’s something they won’t want associated with their brand.

    2. juliebulie*

      If LW2 mentions the photo when resigning and then leaks the photo (or even if someone else leaks it), LW will probably be blamed. And the fact that they can’t prove it was LW doesn’t mean that it won’t affect references and such.

      And it’s probably not worth mentioning in the letter anyway. LW already raised the issue and if that ruffled any feathers, they won’t forget who that person was.

      (When I started this comment, I was going to say, YES mention it in the letter. But as I was writing I realized that there’s no advantage to anyone.)

      1. TheLoaf*

        I think the advantage is that when you put something in writing, there is no possibility for anyone to be confused about your position. And you have it documented if this should ever come up in the future (what if OP applies for a job in 10 years and the new company questions their association with the old company?).

        If OP has no desire to keep references intact, leak the photo right after they leave. If they want to keep references, leak it six months later. I don’t think we should be dealing in halves when dealing with literal Nazis. To stand in your convictions against fascism is critical to beating them. These aren’t trade secrets or even your standard shady business dealings. Sharing that a company is made up of Nazis will only reflect poorly on the company, not on the whistleblower.

        1. MigraineMonth*

          Is it bad that I kind of want to see someone argue in court that company leadership being Nazi-supporters is a trade secret?

  24. Delta Delta*

    #1 – I’m wondering about this sentence: “To be fair, it’s near-impossible for me to eat at most establishments, and even if I just pick at a plain salad, I tend to be a nervous mess the whole time.”

    Are you nervous because you’re concerned about cross contamination of the food? Or are you generally nervous around your boss/coworkers/colleagues/etc? If it’s the former, that makes a lot of sense – you don’t want to risk an allergic reaction when you think you’re safely eating lettuce. If it’s the second, that seems to be a different issue, potentially unconnected to the food.

    Regardless, it hurts to be left out of a celebration, so perhaps you could call the restaurant and ask if you can bring your own food. Or maybe you can eat beforehand and sip on coffee or tea while others eat lunch.

    1. NotRealAnonForThis*

      Its often both. I am not exaggerating when I state that formal therapy needs to be a part of most long term chronic medical conditions, and that this includes food allergies.

      There’s a lot to unpack with it, and oftentimes you’re having to set boundaries with well-meaning people, and deal with “guilt” thrown at you by others, along with a whole host of other feelings…while trying to navigate a situation that can indeed be life or death for you.

      1. Me*

        The LW also said, “Attending and not partaking feels somewhat awkward.” While I get it can be awkward, it doesn’t have to be. I sat next to a couple who kept strictly kosher at our big work end-of-the-year dinner. They didn’t eat but were completely blase about it, and it didn’t feel awkward at all after about a minute.

        NotRealAnon is correct that formal therapy may help here. Perhaps because the situation is fairly new, I get the sense that some of the LW’s anxiety/stress is about feeling like they’re being a bother or being “weird,” rather than feeling more matter-of-fact about it.

        It also would not be a terrible idea to identify a restaurant that will work at some point, because this will come up again. Depending on the type of allergies, a raw vegan place might be an option. This wouldn’t be suitable for a fancy dinner, but fast food places are also an option for some, because their menus are so limited and standardized that there aren’t a lot of cross-contamination possibilities.

        1. A different anon*

          I eat (somewhat) kosher and have a bunch of food intolerances. I dont think my colleagues find it awkward, but I have been subjected to so many interrogations about it. They think it’s interesting; I think it’s exhausting.

          That’s not a therapy thing! It’s that an observer only sees a subset of what is going on and is thinking the best of their colleagues. We’re literally in the same post about Nazi salutes; I don’t want to have to talk about my relationship to my religion just to eat lunch. And while most people I work with are cool with it, there is always some person who becomes obsessed now that they understand I’m Jewish and that isn’t just being pre-Christian. I have similar problems with my food intolerances; once I talk about them, there’s one colleague who obsesses about being able to make homemade food for me, and another who decides I’m just a hypochondriac about all my health issues.

          Lots of people are great. But not all of them, and I should get some choice in which consequences of disclosure I live with.

          1. A different anon*

            Also, clarifying: I do often go to things and just quickly avoid foods or skip the meal if necessary. There’s a lot of value in showing up. But I do it becauseit’s better for me this way, not because there aren’t consequences.

            1. misquoted*

              I do this, too — just show up and avoid food (picky eater plus food intolerances that I haven’t quite gotten a handle on yet). It’s stressful for me, but it gets easier. I don’t like being the PITA coworker or friend who has such a limited selection of where to eat (yet I know the PITA part is probably just in my head).

        2. DJ Abbott*

          LW, if people give you grief about the allergies that’s them being ignorant. You are not doing anything wrong.
          Good people will understand and follow your lead, doing what you ask them to do.

  26. Nathan*

    LW3 –
    I have a story that’s related enough I think it’s worth sharing.

    At my previous job, I had taken a new position and was going to resign. I had asked my manager for a 1:1, and the earliest time he could give me was that afternoon. A complicating factor was that I had a skip-level 1:1 that morning. My grandboss spent several minutes excitedly telling me about all the future plans they had for me and my role in the company. I felt like it would be a disservice to him to keep quiet, so I told him that I had found a new job and was going to be giving my two weeks notice that day.

    The one thing I asked of him was that I be allowed to tell my manager myself, as I felt we had a good relationship and I didn’t want him hearing the news secondhand.

    After returning to my desk, about 15 minutes later I got an instant message from my boss telling me he heard I was leaving.

    This was seven years ago. I still feel betrayed by my grandboss. It’s not a big deal and it doesn’t keep me up at night, but I was going to tell my manager that same day — I don’t think the ~4 hours’ extra notice my boss got about me leaving had a material impact on the business. Maybe those feelings aren’t even rational, but they’re still there.

    I think Alison’s response is reasonable and the situation in the letter is different enough that I don’t think my story directly applies. But I do think that OP’s instincts to protect his or her employee’s right to communicate his departure in a manner of his choosing are good and right.

  27. Anonymoose*

    Glad we’re back to where you can be a literal Nazi sympathizer, or worse, and not get fired…

    At least they let you know who they are so you can spread it far and wide. Make it known.

  29. Ladida*

    For 3 – If I told my boss on Friday that I will give written notice on Monday because I’m currently out of time ….I have knowingly and effectively resigned on Friday.

    I really don’t think it’s a big deal. Yes, the LW is in theory risking her employee being pushed out early (though due to staffing challenges, it seems unlikely), but is that not the same risk every employee that gives two weeks notice is doing every single time? I don’t think the risk is entirely avoidable when resigning and I suspect neither does LW’s employee given that he told his boss about his new job. I don’t think he’d be surprised or hurt to know that LW informed her boss given that it is a natural next step.

    1. PhyllisB*

      I’m kind of wondering if the employee told their boss so she could give the leaders a heads-up? They told the boss and others so it’s nothing that’s a big secret.

  30. Hyaline*

    While I think the boss in #4 is being a total doofus not anticipating that his tennis club employees might also be on the high school tennis team and have the same conflicts, I think you do kind of have to accept that, if you’re going to work as a high schooler, your boss may or may not honor requests off for your sports or extracurricular commitments. It’s something to ask about going in and be aware even if the answer is favorable that things could change, and sometimes you do have to choose between them. If this had been the local ice cream shop instead of the tennis club, where the boss would really have no way of anticipating that his team would all have the same requests to accommodate sports, “make a choice” might be the only real advice here. Which is actually a pretty valuable lesson, in the long run, though in the short run it makes for some not very fun decision making.

    1. Parrhesia25*

      Yes, in general, you need to make your boss aware of your high school extracurriculars. I don’t think it applies as much in this case because it sounds like the high schoolers were hired in large part based on their extracurriculars. And because high schoolers are new to the work world the boss probably needs to spell it out.

      And I can’t help but think back to the recent “Gen Z is coddled” and all the people who wondered why high schools don’t get jobs anymore.

      1. Splat*

        I mean…I worked *instead of* doing a sport my senior year, because I decided making money and getting some working experience was more important to my goals than sports! So…I think this is less “coddling” and more that we’ve piled unmerited importance on extracurriculars. I have cousins who really and truly think that soccer is their way to college. It…is not.

        1. LongTimeReader*

          Unless… it is. I have a kid on a nationally ranked, state championship team. We definitely never saw this coming- it’s kinda niche, and honestly, this is not the one of my kids I’d expect to be a serious elite athlete. But the vast majority of kids on this team play formally in college- not all in scholarship (some go D3) but they play! I would absolutely have her miss a work conflict- heck, she also misses school days for her sport.

        2. YetAnotherAnalyst*

          So, here’s the thing – the gap between minimum wage and the cost of college is so big that even a marginal increase in scholarships is often worth more than the job. My kid didn’t play sports, but did end up volunteering with a programming education organization. The volunteer experience and academic performance ended up being enough of an edge to get a small scholarship – $5k/year for 4 years. It’s not much, even against in-state tuition, but it’s a lot more than the take-home pay for a dependent on part-time minimum wage would’ve been for the same time!

    2. Ann O'Nemity*

      It goes both ways. If you hire high school students, you need to accept that they are going to have other commitments that cause them to miss work. If you are a high school student working, you need to accept that you could potentially lose your job if you miss work due to competing commitments.

      Also, requiring employees to find their own coverage is a terrible policy.

  31. Anon for this*

    This is an embarrassing incident. We were doing a group photo after our year-long training ending. Someone said wave to the camera so a bunch of us did (including me). It looked like a Nazi salute. We had the photographer immediately erase the photo. We were all horrified.

    1. cathy*

      I’m in a band with choreographed movements, and we have one move where we raise our arms like you would in a Nazi salute. We are VERY careful to make jazz hands vs. Nazi hands! :-)

  32. Aerin*

    LW1: The calling ahead is key! So often the difficulty with accommodating these kinds of requests is trying to do them on the fly in the middle of service. Give them the opportunity to plan around it and it’s usually trivial to do so. Many restaurants can be contacted by email, or you can call them up and get an email address, so that allows you to lay it all out without the awkwardness of a phone call and also gives them a chance to review it when they have a chance to think it through (i.e. not when the place is open to customers).

    As an aside, this is a thing the Disney parks are really good about (or at least were last time I was around them, which has admittedly been a few years). No matter how complicated the restrictions, call up guest services and lay out what you need and they’ll work with you to make it happen. I know of at least one instance where the solution was “there’s literally only one thing this kid can eat, so ship some to us and follow this restaurant itinerary and we’ll have it ready for you.”

    1. Parrhesia25*

      And in fairness to restaurants and diners there may not be any thing the restaurant can do that would make the food safe or appropriate. That’s not anyone’s fault! But it does put pressure on the OP, adding labor to what already sounds like a complicated situation. And assuming that there is an accommodation available, if the OP would just work hard enough, encourages people to dismiss the OP’s statements about their own needs.

      Disney resorts are huge — they probably have the resources to have a zero-contamination kitchen. The situation is not comparable.

      1. Aerin*

        That’s certainly a take. It’s not about assuming that there is an accommodation, it’s about *not* assuming that there *isn’t*. If the restaurant says it’s not possible then OP is no worse off than they are now.

        And yeah, advocating for our own needs is exhausting and a pain in the butt. It’s also something literally everyone has to do in life. The alternative is just hoping that people guess what you need, which is a recipe for misery all around. It is rarely easy or fun but it’s a skill and it improves with practice. Believe me, the mindset of “but I shouldn’t have to do this” is an absolute dead end.

        It’s perfectly valid if OP decides the benefit of going is not worth the cost of making it happen! But that calculation works out better if they’re factoring in all options.

    2. huh*

      Not to put a damper on your example, but a woman, Kanokporn Tangsuan, died of an allergic reaction at a restaurant in Downtown Disney after being assured repeatedly that her food was prepared according to her instructions just a few years ago.

      2. Dahlia*

        Disney USED to be really good about disabilities and allergies.

        It has severely changed in the last few years. A lot of disability services have been gotten rid of completely.

        Also, Disney told that woman’s husband he couldn’t sue because of having a Disney+ subscription once.

        1. Arrietty*

          My knowledge is exclusively of Disneyland Paris, but it seems that their catering for allergies is trays of indistinguishable mush reheated in a plastic pot.

          1. Calamity Janine*

            it’s secondhand knowledge, but Disneyland Paris also broke my friend’s wheelchair and then is still giving them the runaround about helping to pay for fixing it.

            so… yeah, Disneyland Paris, not exactly a shining light of disability friendliness it seems :(

    3. juliebulie*

      My only experience with a not-eating-the-restaurant’s-food person was someone who was doing one of those diet plans with the shelf-stable microwavable dinners. A big group of us were going to a nice restaurant (not a chain, and not swanky, but more formal than a diner). The person called ahead and the restaurant agreed to heat up her packaged meal for her! So yeah, at least some restaurants can be really good when one person out of a bunch needs some accommodation. Especially if they ask in advance.

      1. Oolie*

        I don’t know how common it is, but where I live it’s actually illegal under Board of Health regulations for restaurants to allow outside food, and certainly not into the kitchen. So that might not even be an option for LW. And although as a previous poster stated, there’s no harm in asking for allergy accommodations and being told no, there is absolutely potential harm in being told yes by a kitchen that is not set up for a particular allergy, due to either ignorance or cross-contamination. If I were LW, I would be looking only for a way to get people to MTOB, not to find a way to be able to eat with the group.

        1. fhqwhgads*

          Yeah, most restaurants won’t do it because it’s a health code violation. The ones that do it if you ask in advance due to a medical thing are just cool with the risk.

  33. Hyaline*

    LW1: I am a little unclear on one thing–WHY do you want to skip out on the gathering itself? I think the specific kind of answers the question: If you can’t eat there and feel like it’s weird to go and not eat–it’s not! It’s totally normal for your situation! I have dietary restrictions and I just enjoy my coffee or Coke while others eat when this happens. Treat yourself to a nice coffee or a soft drink (man, if they have phosphates or fancy sodas, it’s like a jackpot for me), and enjoy it and the company! If it’s that you feel like the request to bring your own food or ask for food to be prepared specially is an inappropriate ask–it’s not! It’s totally normal! If someone else is arranging the lunch, you could even ask them to make the ask so it’s even more “official.” If it’s that the *presence* of allergens, not just potential ingestion, is a problem, so you don’t want to even be in the restaurant, totally fair! Politely bow out and wish everyone the best! And if it’s that you will just feel left out and crappy watching others eat something you would have enjoyed while you’re sipping coffee….then politely bow out, it’s totally understandable. Bottom line–if you WANT to be there and you CAN be there, do whatever you need to do to accommodate that. If you CANNOT be in the presence of the allergens or you don’t really WANT to, it’s totally fine to bow out and no one (normal) is going to think poorly of it.

    1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      A lot of places won’t allow you to bring in your own food, because of e.g. hygiene, sometimes actual local hygience ordinances, concern for other customers with different allergies, concern about becoming a free picnic space, lowering the tone (I knew someone with ARFID who’d try to bring in a smelly McD meal in its packaging!) etc.

      Simplest is for your employer to simply pay a typical meal price (& tip) for you as an accommodation, even if you just drink sodas / coffee there and eat beforehand.

      1. Banana Pyjamas*

        Yep, some places where there are local ordinances are so strict they don’t allow water bottles or baby food. I had water for making bottles, the restaurant didn’t have a problem with me using the formula to make a bottle, but they said I couldn’t have the water bottle.

    2. Parrhesia25*

      If I were in the OP’s shoes I would want to skip the event because they do not want to deal with people commenting about their diet or trying to be helpful. It’s exhausting. “Normal for your situation” doesn’t mean that people won’t make it an issue. And given the extent of the OP’s allergies it would not be appropriate to ask anyone else to try arrange an accommodating.

      Insisting that the OP could be there if they “really wanted to” is kind of dismissive.

      1. Hyaline*

        I’m saying if LW wants to be there it can and should be accommodated and nothing in the letter indicated that LW didn’t want to be there—just that she felt she had to bow out. Maybe her reasons are obvious and clear to her and that’s fine! But it’s not an automatic already made decision that just because you can’t eat the food you can’t attend the event.

    3. misquoted*

      Yeah, that’s a good point about not being able to BE IN the restaurant. An allergy to peanuts likely means not even going inside those restaurants that have peanuts on all the tables — I watched a friend have an allergic reaction (luckily not life-threatening) just from sitting at the table — we hadn’t even gotten drinks yet. We had to leave.

  34. kristinyc*

    LW 1 – Maybe you could eat your safe lunch at the office beforehand, and then go to the lunch and just have water/tea/coffee/soda (whatever you can/want to drink). Not ideal, but then you’re at least not left out of the social aspect of it.

    Last year, my boss scheduled a team lunch on a rare day that the four of us from our city were all in the office at the same time, to welcome a new team member. We didn’t know that the other team member (who’s younger/relatively junior) was fasting for religious observance (I didn’t even know she was part of the religion that would be fasting…). She joined the lunch and just didn’t eat anything, because she didn’t want to miss out on the face time with our boss (her grandboss) and social time with all of us. We all felt awkward, but enjoyed her company. I later told her she could have said something beforehand and we could have picked a different day, but she said she didn’t mind. (But in the future, now I know to check!)

  35. Dawn*

    LW3, why did your boss have to know your employee’s name in order to start the process of replacing him? You say that this is a store – i.e. retail – so presumably everyone under you has basically the same job title, responsibilities, and education. I’m not sure why they would need to distinguish one sales associate from another to begin hiring in this case.

    1. juliebulie*

      There are many roles in retail besides sales associate. (Accounting, security, warehouse, etc.) Even if they are in sales, depending on the store, a sales associate might mainly work in a particular department and have some special knowledge that can’t be replaced with just anyone. I mean if we are talking Kmart, that’s one thing. But there are stores where you can expect to meet salespeople who have actual expertise.

      1. Dawn*

        Yeah but that’s the exception not the rule. And I worked in retail for many years, including time in head office – and I was one of those salespeople with “actual expertise” too.

        The boss might need to know the employee’s particular role, but their name shouldn’t really be necessary to that. Why are you automatically assuming the worst of my intentions here?

        1. doreen*

          Depends – my son worked at Toys R Us but although he often worked on the sales floor , he was hired to assemble bikes which not all the sales associates could do. Sure, maybe all the manager needed to know was “a bike assembler who works weekends and two weeknights is leaving ” but at that point, there’s really no point to being cryptic. That description probably applied to only two or three other people.

      2. Worldwalker*

        Exactly. Let’s say it’s … oh, to pick an out-of-business example, Sears. If someone who sells tools quits, you can’t just switch someone over from women’s clothing to cover for them. Someone from the shoe department is going to be as helpless as a new hire in large appliances. Etc.

    2. Michelle*

      This was my story, I didn’t feel like he needed to know about the name of the employee, HR was okay with not knowing given it was only a few days until he would give formal notice. I don’t know why he pressured me to tell him given that he is a cashier, not in any other higher role or “critical” role in the store. – OP

  36. Applesauced*

    #4 reminds me of my high school job:
    I worked at the public library – which had limited after school hours and was closed Sunday – and was asked to resign because I took too many Saturdays off for extracurricular activities.
    Similar to tennis, it was for a drama tournament and at the beginning of the year I couldn’t predict how far we would get/how many days I would need off.

  37. Observer*

    #2 – Nazi salute.

    Alison, you write that “It’s astonishing that your company didn’t even think this should be addressed with the people the photo was sent to

    Why? This is a company that clearly does not think that this is a big problem. I mean, the guy did this in front of the company booth, and there is no possibility of anyone not realizing who the booth belonged to. And the COO thinks it’s a “cute pic”, rather then evidence of seriously problematic behavior. Also, not a single person in the chain – and I’m talking about the executive management team! – was ready to speak up about it. And now, HR is also telling the LW that they are “over-reacting” to the situation.

    So top management is all terrible, and they just don’t think it’s bad enough to warrant an apology anyway. It’s not clear whether top management actually includes the executive management team or not, but clearly the folks who are actually in charge just don’t care. So of course they would not address it with the people who were offended.

    1. Worldwalker*

      The LW added some more context in a comment. The upper management is definitely right-wing, and it looks like fairly hard right. They’re Trumpistas and proud of it. It’s not that they don’t care — they think it’s a good thing!

  38. Anon for this*

    Nazi salute: I would resign over that too, unless the photo was passed around with the message “this happened and we immediately terminated this person.” No reasonable employer is going to question why you’d leave an employer that would allow that type of behavior. Unfortunately, we are currently living in times where someone firebombs the Governor’s Mansion in Pennsylvania because the Governor happens to be Jewish, and some politicians are blaming the Governor for being a critic of the current administration!
    I’m going to go look at dog videos to try and calm down.

  39. Too Many Birds*

    OP #2 – Please, please make this public. We need to out Nazis. He did that publicly. He deserves to feel the full consequences of his actions. And the company needs to be made to understand that they need to take action. The idea that all he would get is a reprimand for this is shocking.

  40. Nilsson Schmilsson*

    LW2, if your org is publicly held, I’d notify the BOD. Hopefully, someone on the Board will see this for exactly what it is. I’d even be tempted to treat this as a hostile work environment. Since you’re not a Trumper, I’d say it’s pretty likely that there will be some retaliatory issues somewhere down the road.

  41. My Brain is Exploding*

    #4 high school sports. First, at the high school I attended, and also at the high school my kids attended, if you were in a varsity sport you didn’t have to take PE that semester. So if you got booted from a sport (like because you couldn’t actually play in competitions) you somehow had to make up that credit. Also, quitting a sport like tennis is different than quitting a sport like football…there are very few people actually on the team (at least where my kids went to HS, and they both played varsity tennis) so leaving the team hurts the team. Very short-sighted of the boss on this one; a student in a similar position will have to carefully weigh the obligations they feel toward the job and the sport as well as the benefits of each (for example, they may really need the money, or the sport is their only extra curricular activity) and decide accordingly.

  42. Ex-Prof*

    LW #2, please include it in your resignation letter.

    Congratulations on your new job, and on an easy escape from an employer who supports Nazism.

  43. GranolaCrunch*

    And sports participation can still benefit kids in the college application process, even if there’s no scholarship money on the table. D3 schools also field teams!

  44. Space Coyote*

    I originally read the title of this post as “Getting out of a fancy work lunch due to a Nazi salute,” kind of chuckled at my ridiculous mistake…

    …and then read further and realized the actual situation was So. Much. Worse. o_o No words, LW, just sympathy and the encouragement to GTFO and light a (metaphorical) stick of dynamite on your way to safety and sanity.

  45. Llama Turner*

    Just had to comment re: letter #2 that my heart goes out to all the victims of antisemitism and of bigotry in general. I feel as though I am growing more saddened and misanthropic as the days go by and more and more “seemingly” average Joes are feeling comfortable with being their “authentic” bigoted selves. Not to say I am naive enough to believe that there were fewer bigots in society before they started loudly proclaiming hate, but merely that at least when communities at large were not as redolent with the stench of open bigotry at least the metaphorical air was less polluted.

    We see you and you do have allies. I help teach children and am doing what I can to sow the field with kind hearts and clear minds.

    1. BradentonDeb2021*

      LW#1 — I would tell the truth, that you cannot attend due to food allergies. I suggest framing it as a medical issue.

      @Raincoaster — Nailed it!

  47. Yours sincerely, Raymond Holt*

    A lot of people are saying the Nazi photo should be leaked. (Or rather, that it would be *terrible* if the Nazi photo was leaked, especially as they did it at a trade show, which means it would be difficult to provably trace the leak back to the LW.)

    I don’t disagree. But in the political climate, would this necessarily harm the company? I could imagine the Nazi being all over the news for being “cancelled, boo hoo” and then the next thing you know he’s got a talk show or a podcast with suspiciously high financial investments from mysterious sources.

    That seems to happen here in the UK and I imagine it is similar, maybe worse, in the US?

    If the company relies on government contracts, could it even help them!?

    But none of that is a reason not to do it… just curious to hear from US readers the extent to which doing a Nazi salute even harms your reputation or business in the US these days.

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