my coworker makes absolutely everything about herself

by Alison Green on April 15, 2025

A reader writes:

I work in a department of nine people. We all get along well, but I’m struggling with how to handle my frustrations with my colleague, Margo. Margo is possibly the most well-intentioned person I’ve ever met, but she has the infuriating habit of bringing every conversation back to herself to explain how she understands or has been through the same thing.

This week, the transmission in my car died. When I was lamenting to the group that I was now facing the financial hardship of either repairing it or buying a new car, Margo told me, “I get it. I just had to buy brand new tires for my car.”

A month ago, a colleague’s father passed away and Margo told her, “I’m sorry. I know just how you feel. My dad had Covid last year.” He had a mild case and recovered quickly.

When a colleague was dealing with pain related to her cancer treatments, Margo expressed her concern and then shared that she totally got it because she has foot problems.

The parents in the group try not to talk too much about our children because not everyone in the department is a parent, but when the subject comes up, Margo knows exactly what we’re going through because she has a nephew … who lives on the other side of the country.

Margo truly doesn’t mean harm with these statements but the way she minimizes others’ ordeals by comparing them to her own is frustrating. Is there a way to politely let her know that simply saying she’s sorry is preferable to bringing everything back to herself?

I would love to know whether Margo is trying to one-up people — or at least equate her struggles to their own — or whether she’s truly trying to empathize and just doing a terrible job of it.

Either way, this is the kind of feedback a manager is best positioned to address.

That doesn’t mean you can’t try it yourself, but as not her manager you might be better off just addressing it in the moment when it’s particularly egregious. If she compares a stubbed toe to a coworker having cancer treatments, there’s no reason you can’t say, “I don’t think those are really comparable.”

Also, if you have a pretty good rapport with her, you might be able to take her aside privately and say something like, “I know you didn’t mean it this way, but it sounded like you were comparing your stubbed toe to Jane’s cancer, and a couple of days ago you compared a parent with a mild case of Covid to Falcon’s parent who died. I know you didn’t mean to minimize either situation, but I don’t think those comments are landing the way you intended. I wanted to mention it since I know you’d never want to hurt someone’s feelings.”

Will it work? Maybe, maybe not. If you say the above and nothing changes, you probably just need to decide that this is what Margo does and internally roll your eyes when it happens (or hell, bluntly reply “not the same thing!” when you’re inspired to). But it’s worth a shot, and if she’s really as well-intentioned as you say, she might be grateful for the heads-up.

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  2. asloan*

    Personally, I think you have the best chance of addressing this when she does it *to you* because then you can use I-language and be straightforward … it’s always harder when you’re dancing around trying to say how other people feel or that “everyone” thinks X or Y.

    1. Not That Jane*

      You can still use “I” language when she does it to someone else, because that still has an impact on you. “I’m upset on Falcon’s behalf that you compared a mild case of Covid to their dad’s death.”

      2. Ann O'Nemity*

        Eh, I think you can use “that’s not really comparable” in the moment if you hear Margo doing this to someone else, especially if it’s especially egregious. But I agree with asloan that it will work best when Margo does it to you.

      3. Saturday*

        But you definitely can’t do that in the moment because then it would really make Falcon’s loss about you, which is the problem you’re trying to prevent. If it’s something that involves you directly, there’s much more room to speak up immediately.

        1. Lenora Rose*

          Yes, the “I’m upset” language lands wrong in that scenario, in a way the “That’s not comparable” doesn’t. Even the latter has a risk of pulling the attention away from Falcon, if the discussion devolves into Margo’s hurt feelings instead, but that’s more easily controlled.

        2. Lydia*

          There may be a way to do it in the moment without saying “I’m upset” or a variation of that. If OP is part of the conversation, it’s easy in the moment to just say, “I don’t think those are equivalent” and leave it at that. That way it’s addressed, Falcon doesn’t have to say it, and it’s still pointing out the very valid point that those two things are not equal.

      4. Dido*

        No you cannot, it is not your place to be upset when a coworker’s dad dies. personally I would not try to hide my shock and would say “are you really trying to compare a mild illness to the death of a parent?”

      5. Dolphins*

        Ehhhhh. Then (if I were Falcon) it becomes a Whole Thing where now I’m caught in the middle of whatever is going on between the LW and Margo as if I’m a 16th century maiden whose honor needs defending. When really, I’m just trying to get through the day in the wake of my parent’s death. So I don’t love this idea. I think it’s better that the LW sticks to maybe their own lane as far as Margo-related stuff is concerned. If other coworkers are annoyed by interactions with Margo, that’s on them to handle to put on their Grown Up Clothes and handle it themselves.

        1. HighSchoolPsych*

          When I lost my dad, I had a classmate tell me that she understood, because her dad had surgery (routine and outpatient) the same week my father died. I would have really appreciated someone else commenting that the comparison of the two events was banana pants! Without it, it left me wondering if everyone else thought that was an okay thing to say and I was just being overly sensitive for being pissed. As it was, this classmate continued to make obnoxious comments for several weeks before I finally snapped at her. Then several of our mutual friends commented that she had been being rude and self-centered and started acting as a buffer between us. I would’ve preferred skipping the repeated rude and/or traumatic comments and wondering if I was being too harsh if friends had just stepped in to redirect her earlier (as they did after I finally snapped).

          Some people would feel as you described, but others might appreciate the interjection (as I would have).

    3. Observer*

      it’s always harder when you’re dancing around trying to say how other people feel or that “everyone” thinks X or Y.

      Except that that’s not necessary. When someone says “I understand about losing your father because my father had covid last year”, it’s perfectly fine to gasp and say “Did you just really compare a short illness to someone dying!? Or if you really need to keep it cool, “I really do *not* think that these are remotely comparable” works just fine.

      1. Healthcare Manager*

        An approach like that, shaming the individual for what they said, works really well when they’re being racist, or homophobic. But when it’s someone who’s trying to do the right thing but failing it’s kinder to assume ignorance over mal-intent.

        1. Lenora Rose*

          That depends on how badly they’re failing. I do think comparing a light and recovered-from case of a sickness, even one as serious in its fallout as Covid, to someone’s death is worth calling out however well intended the person is, because there is no way that’s right.

          1. Lydia*

            Nobody is saying not to call them out. It’s about shaming them instead of just pointing out they’re not equivalent. “I don’t think those are the same” versus “Did you really just say X as if they’re the same thing?!” One is coming from a place of giving the person grace; the other is probably going to lead to more embarrassment than anything else.

            1. Potatoes Ramone*

              I mean, shame and embarrassment serve an important function just like all other emotions do. They’re there to guide us away from antisocial behavior. If I’m doing something harmful, feeling shame or embarrassment is unpleasant – but unpleasant doesn’t mean harmful. No one is suggesting going to exorbitant lengths to shame Margo that are out of proportion to her behavior, which I agree wouldn’t be productive. But if professional, in the moment reactions like the ones described cause her embarrassment, then that’s important feedback for her so she can actually live out those good intentions.

              1. Ace in the Hole*

                You said this better than I could have.

                She’s doing something (a little bit) shameful and embarrassing. If she feels shame and embarrassment from someone reacting appropriately… good. People should know when their behavior comes across as out-of-touch, inconsiderate, and foolish to everyone around them, even though it’s an inherently embarrassing realization.

    4. Landry*

      I wasn’t super clear from the letter if the behavior is bothering the rest of the office as much as LW. In any case, I agree it would only be appropriate for LW to address it when Margo makes a comment directly to them. It’s a slippery slope to start speaking for colleagues and saying you’re offended on their behalf when the colleague in question might be unbothered.

  3. Productivity Pigeon*

    For some reason, I got the impression that Margo is someone a bit clueless who is trying to relate to other people but is doing it clumsily.

    But I can’t say why I think that. (Beyond that OP says she means well, I mean.)

    In a way, I would find it easier to address it if it was a selfish way of centering herself. It’s harder when it’s someone who’s trying to do the right thing but failing.

    1. Jen*

      Yeah, the way to do this is “I hear you, A happened to me and the B that happened to you is way worse,” when A and B are similar but the A problem is like the B problems *scaled way down* in severity

      2. Ann Nonymous*

        I think I’ve cured myself of this, but in the past I would use my own examples as a way to show that I could empathize or shared an experience. I was not ridiculous in comparisons (Covid vs a death), but I realized that it came off as one-upping and minimizing the other person’s experience. I also used to do this on FB (“Tahiti? Yeah, I loved it when I went there 5 years ago and we also went on an amazing sunset sail.”) I suspect that this is what Margo is doing so I have some sympathy for her.

        1. AnReAr*

          Yeah, it’s a very common thing to fall into for anyone, and speaking from personal experience it does appear to happen more to those of us with neurodivergencies that affect socialization. But the “cause” doesn’t actually matter because the strategy to get over this specific hurdle is always the same: let them know it’s not hitting as intended, and spell out that hidden second half of the relating to people formula. (Relate to people by sharing similar experiences! *But don’t make equivocations, and end it by acknowledging what they shared).

    2. Wayward Sun*

      I suspect she’s socially awkward and is trying to make a connection, not realizing that that isn’t what the situation calls for.

      1. Productivity Pigeon*

        I agree. Maybe I’m just in a sensitive mood today but I suddenly felt very sorry for Margo, who’s trying but just not getting it quite right.

        2. Putting the Dys in Dysfunction*

          Is there anyone on the team who has a good relationship with Margo and could gently coach her on how to be supportive without stealing the focus? They could talk about

          * What the person who started the conversation might be looking for, and why someone else talking about their issues interferes with that

          * Understanding why less traumatic experiences, even if in some ways related to the topic at hand, will be taken as minimizing the original topic

          * Modeling what supportive comments look like

    3. Beyond the sea*

      Not to pull a Margo but…. (lol). I used to be like this and then read about (somewhere online) how annoying it was. I genuinely wasn’t trying to one up. I was just excited to relate to someone. I try really hard not to do it now, since its considered annoying. It truly was just me being socially awkward.

      1. Productivity Pigeon*

        I totally believe you!

        And if she is truly a little clueless, it’s also difficult to expect her to change if no one tells her that she’s doing this thing wrong.

      2. Wayward Sun*

        Same. I’ve gotten a lot more reluctant to talk in these situations and that’s probably a good thing.

      3. Apostrophina*

        Count me as another one who struggles with the line between making it about me and trying to communicate that “I’m not just mouthing platitudes—here are my personal bona fides!”

        1. Funko Pops Day*

          I feel like one easy way to do that is to explicitly return focus to them– “I’m so sorry to hear that your mom had a fall. How are you doing? My grandmother broke her hip and I remember how stressful it was to have to figure out a rehab facility for her on the spur of the moment. Is that something you’re dealing with right now?”

          1. JB (not in Houston)*

            This is the way. It’s great when you try to empathize–I have certainly done this plenty of times–but it falls flat when the person in the situation now has to talk about *your* feelings or your situation. But your technique keeps the topic on the person talking about their current situation.

        2. goddessoftransitory*

          I think this hits the mark. Margo is trying to convey “I really do feel for you and here’s why,” but it’s coming across “I totally get how terrible chemo is because of this hangnail.”

          1. And thanks for the coffee*

            “ I totally get how terrible chemo is because of this hangnail.”
            I know this is a serious conversation, but I wanted to giggle over this comparison of chemo to a hangnail. Are people who do this really aware of making everything about themselves or are they just clueless?

        3. Prudence Snooter*

          Same! I’m feeling called out. I’m guessing this is an ADHD thing because, while I was diagnosed decades ago, I’m just now learning about how ADHD has basically shaped my entire life and personality.

          Oh look at me, making this about myself

          2. goth associate*

            It definitely is a neurodivergent thing (per my psychologist, I do it too & so do most of my friends), & I think part of not being a nightmare about it is being self aware enough to realise you’re doing it & try to temper it a bit? I have to actually remind myself “hey you’re doing the thing again, stop”, like it doesn’t come naturally & it’s taken years of practice (I’m not saying OP is ND necessarily, sometimes people are just oblivious, but it’s definitely a common thing for brains that are somewhat spicy in some way.)

        4. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

          So I think the part about feeling the need to prove your bona fides *is* the part that makes it about you. The other person doesn’t want proof that you might have had a tangentially similar experience. They want your empathy. If you literally haven’t been in their situation, by definition this requires imagination. And if you can’t manage that, platitudes are better.

          “I’ve never lost anyone, I can only imagine how hard that is” or “I was scared when my dad had Covid last year, this must be so hard” would be true and empathetic. The part about not experiencing what they are experiencing is relevant.

      4. Reading Rainbow*

        Same. I was just trying to express empathy! Since the LW says she’s generally a very well-intentioned person, I suspect it’s something along those lines. I think it’s one of those things where people get uncomfortable with not knowing how to help when someone is telling them about something bad, so they try to grasp for any way they can express that they are united with them.

        I think it sucks that people read this as being inherently self centered, condescending, competitive or one-upping, etc. I know some people do it for that reason, but as a reformed Always Trying To Relate type I notice other people doing it and it’s almost never from a crappy place. I wish we could interpret each others’ motives with a little more generosity.

        1. JB (not in Houston)*

          I have done this plenty of times in an attempt to relate, but if doing it pulls the conversation to focus on me rather than the person I’m trying to relate to, then it really is kind of self-centered. I think the key is to do something like what Funko Pops Day suggested–mention your experience but then turn the conversation back to the other person.

          1. Reading Rainbow*

            Yeah I just disagree with that, like, fundamentally. I specifically said there are some people who do this nefariously, but that’s just not the norm. It seems like you’re connecting the outcome to the motivation: It put some focus on that person, therefore that was their intent, they wanted to snatch attention away from the other person. I just don’t think that’s a thing very many people do!

            This is what I mean about interpreting each other with more generosity. Most people are not trying to play weird games in conversations with others, they are just interacting as human beings and sometimes they are going to take the wrong approach. Of course there are better, more actually helpful approaches– that doesn’t mean that the faulty ones some people try are born of character flaws.

            1. Productivity Pigeon*

              I’m on your side in this.

              I’ve found that most people react well to feedback if they’re treated like a responsible adult who means well.

              I studied at a weird hybrid of a military academy and civilian university where about half of the students were former military and the rest ordinary college students. The teachers tended to assume everyone knew a lot of technical stuff.

              We were doing an exercise where you needed to know that the range of a certain type of missile was xxx miles even though it said it was xyz miles on Wikipedia.
              The teacher got a little snippy when one of the 20-year old civilian girls admitted she didn’t know, and she felt very hurt, and a lot of others felt uncomfortable.

              I’m in my thirties, so I simply went up to the teacher during the break and told him that very neutrally that he didn’t mean it and probably didn’t even realize it, but that he came off harshly and made a lot of students uncomfortable.

              He immediately realized his mistake, was extremely grateful and apologized to the class.
              Everyone left the classroom satisfied and all it took was a 30 second conversation, and the assumption that he wasn’t trying to be condescending, he was just thoughtless.

            2. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

              You disagree that talking about your own experience is talking about yourself? Like, that is factually what you are doing. Intent is not the only thing that matters. You can do something selfish accidentally and without being nefarious. It’s still selfish. And approaching it as “well, if you didn’t understand my intent, that’s on you” says you aren’t actually trying to be empathetic.

              Frankly, if you haven’t experienced a traumatic loss or extreme financial stress, then you can’t begin to imagine how little “generosity” that person can give. In fact, you, person speaking to the suffering one, need to be the generous one. So if you find that your words didn’t come across like you intended, *you* should be the one to try again, instead of expecting them to. But that would depend on whether you really were trying to be empathetic.

              1. metadata minion*

                As someone whose first instinct is also to talk about myself, I actually do find it helpful when other people do that to me (assuming they really have experienced something similar, not like what Margo is doing here). I understand that I’m in the minority in this, so I try to restrain myself unless I know the other person has a similar neurotype, but framing it as inherently selfish is unkind.

        2. Kella*

          There are plenty of mixed opinions on whether the practice of sharing related experiences with someone who is suffering is empathetic or selfish (it’s something I do all the time) but the specific way Margo is doing it *is* self-centered. Because she’s using phrases like “I know just how you feel” or “I totally get it” followed by a comparison that is *really* disproportionate and inaccurate. When you claim to *know* how someone feels and follow it with a description of something that is not at all like what they’re experiencing, you are demonstrating that you do not in fact know how they feel, and haven’t really put that much consideration into what experiences other than yours might be like. It’s actually demonstrating a lack of empathy.

          She could’ve even used the same examples but framed differently and it would’ve been better. Like with the coworker that said their dad died of covid: “Oh my gosh, I’m sorry to hear that. When my dad had covid, I was really scared and feared the worst. This virus has really caused a lot of pain and loss.” Tada! You have successfully found actual things in common that you both experienced related to covid, while also offering sympathy.

          If Margo had said, “Oh my gosh! I’m so sorry! Yeah, my dad had covid and it was really scary,” that would be more in the category of “trying to relate but fumbling it.” What Margo is doing is actually self-centered.

      5. PokemonGoToThePolls*

        Same here!

        Now I’m just “Oh wow, that sucks/is great/other appropriate mouth noises” It feels wrong, like you’re not actually engaging, but the internet tells me that’s what many people actually prefer so so be it.

        1. MigraineMonth*

          I think that in general telling someone else “I know how you feel” doesn’t land well. Even if you’ve gone through the same events, you don’t actually know how the person experienced them or what they’re feeling right now. Claiming you know how they’re feeling can make someone feel even more misunderstood, particularly if they have mixed or unspoken feelings. (This is true of “I know how you feel, my father died last year”, not just “I know how you feel, my father had a mild case of Covid last year.”)

          That’s why I think that compassion (i.e. “Oh wow, that sucks/is great/other appropriate mouth noises”) is generally best for these situations rather than empathy (i.e. “I feel/understand your pain”).

          1. Wayward Sun*

            “Mouth noises” about covers it, I think. It took me a long time to realize that most work conversations are best held at the most shallow possible level.

          2. Great Frogs of Literature*

            Yeah, it’s very possible that how Falcon is feeling is “complicated grief for a father who was distant and controlling but genuinely wanted what he thought was best for his children” or “regret about getting in a fight last month/not being supportive enough/moving three states away” or…

            I’m not saying that any of those things are the case, but unless I’m literally Falcon’s best friend (and maybe not then), I can probably only guess at what Falcon is feeling, even if I have gone through a very similar situation.

          3. TheOtherKaye*

            Yes, I tend to keep it surface level for a colleague or someone who is more of an acquaintance than a close friend. “That’s terrible, you must be devastated” or “I’m so sorry to hear that” is what I’d most likely use in that situation.
            For close friends, or if I feel like sharing something personal, I might say something like “I’m so sorry, I know what it is to lose a parent” (or grandparent, for example). I’m not trying to say “I know how you feel” because no-one can know how another person feels, or grieves, but more along the lines of “I sympathise, I’ve been through a similar situation” and nothing more than that.

      6. learnedthehardway*

        Agreed – I would assume good intentions, poor execution of empathy.

        I have to watch myself, because I tend to relate to people by looking within my internal “file” of “what has happened to me, how did I feel about it” in order to get a sense for what that other person feels in their situation. If I mention my experience, I’m trying to tell them that I relate to theirs and feel (insert appropriate emotion here) for them.

        I have learned (over time) to NOT relate my experience, but only the emotion – so I am now recognized as being more empathic. I’m not really. I am just better at gauging what the other person feels and expressing the right response, rather than explicitly relating it to my own lived experience.

        It’s a life skill to be able to do this, I think. One Margo needs to learn.

    4. Whoopsie*

      Maybe because it’s a fairly common social misstep? When you think about it, a lot of conversations are parallel, where someone mentions something, you’ve got similarish experience and mention it, then you use that as a launch point to ask the other person more relevant questions. Where a lot of people stumble – and I’m saying this as an AuDHDer who’s had to learn social conventions – is to 1) know which of their experiences are relevant and 2) turn the conversation back to original.

      So someone who’s decent at this might say “yeah I just had to replace all four tires. Cars are so expensive and it’s worse when it’s an unexpected cost like your transmission. What do you think you’ll do?” Related experience – expression of sympathy – turn focus back.

      This is a really hard skill to learn, and some people – like Margo – are just a lot worse at it than others.

      1. Socks*

        “Related experience – expression of sympathy – turn focus back”

        I will be stealing this formula, thank you

        1. Whoopsie*

          Glad it helps! Once I realized what the formula was supposed to be, it actually got a lot easier to cut out the “related experience” part and skip straight to sympathy, and if I do find myself sharing something that might not help, how to quickly pivot the conversation back. It’s still a work in progress, but I think it’s working!

        2. Ms. Afleet Alex*

          Me too! I’ve been guilty of something similar before and it took some therapy to realize I was really trying to connect but doing it poorly, so this formula is easy to remember.

        4. Snoozing not schmoozing*

          That formula was used back when people wrote letters to friends and acquaintances. Entire books existed that had examples that covered nearly every imaginable situation. I never corresponded with my grandmother (we lived close enough that i saw her in person almost weekly), but I knew she had a ton of penpals besides keeping in
          touch with an enormous scattered family. Years later, after she died, I came across a copy of a letter she had written. In spite of bad spelling and very iffy grammar, it was a perfect textbook example of how to write a letter to a cordial but not particularly close acquaintance. It was a skill that people learned, seemingly by osmosis in many instances. My Dad had only an 8th grade education, but I’ve seen letters he wrote to my Mom during the war that stuck to the same nice formula – perhaps he learned it from his mother. People were then able to translate those written skills into conversing in person. It was a very useful skill!

      2. Productivity Pigeon*

        True, it is common. I’ve got ADHD myself but while I struggle in some social situations, I don’t have this particular problem (most of the time! I definitely don’t always get it right.)

        I guess I also believe that most people mean well, most of the time.
        (I’m aware others might not feel this way, and that it’s easier as a privileged person to assume/encounter good intentions.)

      3. A Significant Tree*

        I’m also pretty bad at it – good intentions, trying to relate and empathize, bad execution. I like the framework of “Related experience – expression of sympathy – turn focus back.” I used to get stuck in the first part without meaning to and wasn’t always deft enough to move to the next two, more important parts. I’m trying to train myself to skip relating (unless it’s truly the same level!) and make sure I do the parts that matter more.

      4. RIP Pillowfort*

        Yeah as someone with ADHD- I had to learn the correct formula for expressing sympathy for a situation. It’s hard and when I was younger I used to lean heavily on relatability because for some reason that just made sense. Communal human experience!

        Realizing that I needed to just express sympathy or concern. Ex. “My dad died.” “Oh no, I’m so sorry to hear that. Are you doing okay?” And not think about all the minutia.

        It’s not I didn’t know the person wanted sympathy- just had a hard time figuring out the socially correct way to express it because my family is big on relating through experience (shocking) and having big emotions about issues (quelle suprise).

      5. Statler von Waldorf*

        I agree strongly with all of this. Also, out of the three steps mentioned, turn focus back is the most important step by far.

        You’ll notice the heart of the issue and the title of the letter isn’t complaining about not relating experiences or not expressing sympathy well, it’s about Margo not turning the focus back and making it all about her.

      6. kicking-k*

        Yeah, I’m also AuDHD and I’d _rather_ someone shared their experience than just saying “oh, that must be difficult for you”, which sounds empty and generic. Presumably Margo would, too, as she clearly doesn’t realise that this is landing in an unfortunate way… That said, I agree with you that it’s better to turn the focus back, and hopefully that would go some way towards removing the awkwardness.

        1. Productivity Pigeon*

          I agree.
          Just saying ”I’m sorry to hear that.” And nothing more would feel a little dismissive/uninterested to me.

        2. Nynaeve*

          I’m right there with you. I also typically don’t want anyone to turn the focus back on me. I want the people I’m sharing with to let me vent, share their experiences and typically help me brainstorm solutions or just leave me be. I greatly appreciate the people who respond with some version of “Are you asking for help or just venting?”

          If I started a conversation with something like the car trouble example in the letter, I want a Margo to step in, share their parallel experience and have everyone else there talk about their experiences, what they did, etc and I will just listen to the conversation and take whatever advice I can glean from the others standing around.

        3. Sassafras*

          Yes, I never talk about my own problems unless I’m at a stage where I need help with solutions and I want to hear about other people’s experiences. So of course I assume the same of others and I think that’s where my own Margo-ish tendencies come from. It’s important to realise when you don’t have any comparable experiences and cannot offer a solution at this time.

      7. Just say non*

        It’s just that replacing tires is so far removed from replacing a transmission that it would really be better not to mention the personal experience at all. Ditto with dad’s mild COVID and parent’s death, parenting versus long-distance nephew, etc.

        1. Dolphins*

          I mean, I’ve had a tire-replacing experience that was very expensive and traumatic (Pep Boys! Working for you!) and a more recent transmission-related problem that was about as expensive and traumatic (mainly because it happened at the same time as the household’s other car also being out of commission for close to a month. Had the timing been better or the final price been less, then we’d have a different story). And a friend of a friend recently shared a very traumatizing tire failure story when she heard about what happened with my car. The kind of tire failure story where you’re like “that could have been a horrific pile up on the 6’o clock news OMG!” But our mutual “cars SUCK” helped me feel better about my situation.

          I’m not saying that Margo didn’t necessarily step in it but cars as a whole are a PITA, especially when something goes wrong. So just assuming “well DUH it’s JUST a tire!” Is a little bad faith on people’s part. Cut Margo some slack maybe. Cars suck when they have problems.

      1. Productivity Pigeon*

        Please don’t feel too bad about it.

        Most of us are clueless at 15. And being awkward while meaning well is a whole lot better than the alternative.

    6. Lacey*

      Yeah, I feel like I’ve known a version of Margo and they absolutely were just trying to connect with people and doing it terribly.

      And yeah, it’s harder to address, because you know they’re trying and it feels bad to tell them that their care is actually harmful.

      1. Wayward Sun*

        There’s a similar, but related problem, where some people don’t understand that when you bring a life problem to them you usually want empathy, not an attempt to solve it.

        1. Productivity Pigeon*

          Learning to ask someone whether they want advice or just empathy/a listening ear was a game changer for me!

        2. londonedit*

          Yep, definitely. My mum does this and it can be really annoying. I hate it when I just want to vent about something that doesn’t really have a solution, it’s just a pain, and someone’s there going ‘But why don’t you just do X?’ and then you explain why X won’t work, and they say ‘But why don’t you just do Y, then?’ and in the end you’re saying look, I’ve thought about this, there isn’t really a solution, I just wanted to vent my frustration. While being even more frustrated, because now I feel like people think I should have sorted the thing out myself, I feel like I’m not being listened to, and I feel like I’ve had to spend 10 minutes justifying why I’m allowed to feel annoyed.

    7. Tax Day*

      I was thinking exactly this. I don’t think she’s being intentionally insensitive — I think she’s trying to relate. Deborah Tannen wrote a great book about the different conversational styles of men and women, and she observes that this kind of “me too!” conversational approach is very common for women who are trying to express empathy.

      1. Productivity Pigeon*

        Yeah, and if she’s well intentioned but clueless, you probably can’t expect her to realize what she’s doing wrong and correct it by herself.

      2. Shiny Penny*

        Tannen’s book _You Just Don’t Understand_ was so enlightening when I read it in my twenties! I haven’t revisited it since, but I feel like a lot of what she talked about has ended up mainstream now.

    8. JSPA*

      Sometimes people who catastrophize really feel as if they have lived through the “worst case” experiences that they’ve pictured, while going through more minor stuff. And a surprising number don’t notice that this isn’t something everyone does.

      If that’s what’s going on, it’s way outside what you can help her understand / process / control / come to terms with.

      (There are any number of scenarios where that’s true.)

      If a simple “can you not do that” doesn’t have any effect, I’d recite Shakespeare inside my head, as it’s a sort of parallel:

      “Cowards die many times before their deaths;
      The valiant never taste of death but once” …

      And be glad I don’t live inside her head.

      1. Productivity Pigeon*

        That’s an interesting point I’ve never considered.

        I was thinking more along the lines that some things are more emotionally charged than others and that it can be situation dependent.

        For someone with no savings and a lot of debt, needing new tires might indeed be the difference between making rent that month to not, and so be comparable to needing to buy a new car for someone with better personal finances but an outsider would have no way of knowing that.

        (Though that isn’t applicable to the dead parent/covid parent which is a pretty extreme case.)

    9. goddessoftransitory*

      That’s definitely the vibe I got from the letter. Margo (from the examples) seems less like Planet Me and more trying to be empathetic, but her interpretation of that is “I experienced X, so this person gets why I understand their feelings about Y.”

      The main problem seems to be that no matter how well intentioned Margo is, her method of getting it across kind of mutes the person who should be the focus of attention.

      1. Danish*

        Yes, as I have been reading other people’s comments I have been realizing that a lot of my issues with this (as another audhd haver) is that i THINK there is a really solid connection there, but it’s either a connection that is not as obvious as it seems to me at all, or that the things that make it relatable are not contained in the words I say.

        For example, the busted transmission vs flat tire could be something like,

        Internally: oh I remember, when i had a flat tire i couldnt immediately fix, how it absolutely disrupted my entire life to suddenly not have reliable transportation, and how nasty a huge unexpected expense can be!

        Externally: omg I know how you feel, I had a flat tire last month.

        I would be better served saying the internal part, probably!

        1. Puffshroom*

          Oh wow, this is such a good point about not articulating the clearly very reasonable connection that’s in one’s head, and as a result making a comparison that seems heartless and crass without realising it. I was thinking I do this thing of offering my experience as a natural continuation of the conversation but I’d never do anything as awful as the examples, but actually I can totally imagine myself forgetting to mention an important mental leap I’ve just made…! In which case I think I would rather someone point out that these things are not comparable, just to give me a push to clarify that that was not what I was trying to say.

    10. Web of Pies*

      I am in my mid-40s, and have only recently understood that people feel perceive this conversation style as self-centering or one-upping. To me, sharing a similar experience I have had is 100% a way of conveying “I understand! I relate! Me too! We have a connection!” I genuinely feel LESS connected to the person or engaged in the conversation when I limit myself to “wow, that sounds hard” type comments; ironically, to me, conversing that way is totally centering the OTHER person and what they want to hear, not a real give-and-take.

      The car example feels very much like this to me, like “ugh, car stuff amiright? I just had to do that too, so I really feel for ya!” The other examples are less defensible for sure, so push back if it’s egregious, but otherwise I’d recommend cutting Margo some slack, she has a conversation style you don’t like, we all have conversation styles we find grating. Someone probably feels the way you do about Margo about something you do, so just be kind when it’s innocuous but annoying to you.

  4. old name is in the shop*

    This strikes me as an awkward attempt to offer empathy and connection. It would be a kindness to let her know that it comes across differently, if you’re up for that conversation.

    2. Seashell*

      Yeah, that’s what I thought too. If she was trying to one-up the person, she would probably exaggerate and go on about her own personal problems. If it’s a brief mention, it’s more likely to be her trying to empathize.

      1. Ann O'Nemity*

        Not so much a one-up if Margo is sharing less serious examples. More of a one-down, if such a term existed.

    3. Laser99*

      I agree the LW would be doing Margo a favor by mentioning it, but she has to be ready for Margo to become defensive.

      1. Web of Pies*

        If it is social awkwardness, I’d be more wary of Margo becoming hurt, as the feedback could be perceived as a reprimand or a social rejection. I just hope LW is kind, some people have communication styles others find annoying. Margo seems well-intentioned to me, though obviously needs to learn when to rein it in (like the death vs. Covid example).

  5. Wayward Sun*

    I’m told this is a really, really common thing for people who are autistic or otherwise neurodivergent. They try to relate by talking about something similar they experienced.

    I’m not on the spectrum but I have a similar tendency. I’ve learned to just say some platitude like “gosh, that’s awful” instead of launching into a story. It’s easy to forget that for most people this kind of conversation is just small talk, not an invitation to connect.

    1. TobiShiro*

      This is exceptionally common for neurodivergent people! I am autistic and have ADHD and my attempts to empathize with coworkers turn out like this a lot. My attempts at relatability often seem like I’m making things all about me, but in reality, that’s the only way I know how to empathize with people–by relating it to something similar I’ve experienced.

      I’ve come to just say “oh no, that’s really sucky, I’m sorry. Is there anything I can do to help?” which I find just as authentic as my attempts to relate, but much less selfish-seeming to my neurotypical coworkers who don’t understand the idiosyncrasies of autistic communication.

      1. Wayward Sun*

        I’m told “is there anything I can do?” is a questionable one because it puts the burden on the other person to come up with something. If you think of something specific asking if they’d like you to do it is usually fine, though.

        1. TobiShiro*

          Ah, never heard that before but that seems like a totally valid point! Perhaps I will remove that part and just stick with “that really sucks, I’m sorry to hear about that”.

          1. Venus*

            It’s easy to change to “let me know if there is anything that I can do” and that should land better.

            1. alldogsarepuppies*

              In my experience, when I was the person in possible need of help – that had the same issue. I either had to think of something they could do to make them feel like they were helping me, or not get the help. People saying that felt like they want to show empathy rather than actually being a help. People who said “would X be helpful” or “can I X” where appreciated. Your millage may vary person to person, but I see no difference in “is there anything I can do” and “let me know if there is anything I can do”

              1. Fool's Gold*

                They are different, because “is there anything”… is an on-the-spot question about what you can think of -now- that they can do. Whereas “let me know if…” is a general open invitation to come to them at any point that you think of something that would be helpful.

                Sure they can improve it by phrasing it as, “Let me know if there’s anything I can do to help – I’m happy to X or Y, or whatever you might need”, but in the absence of that, “let me know” is a perfectly fine and very standard way to offer generalized willingness to help at any point in the future.

          2. Funko Pops Day*

            I think it’s OK to ask ‘is there anything I can do’, but if there’s something specific you CAN offer to do, it’s even better if you can add that– “Is there anything I can do? I’d be happy to water your office plants if you’ll be away for the funeral/pull the numbers for the TPS report and put together the cover sheet if that would let you have a little breathing room right now/bring over dinner one night if that would be a help”

            When I was dealing with a sudden loss, having people offer anything specific made it easier to say “we’re good on casseroles but it would be great if you could keep an eye on my inbox for any paperwork about LlamaCon so that I don’t have to go into the office this week just in case the vendor sends it”, whereas just asking out of the blue “can you keep an eye out for the LlamaCon invoice” felt inappropriate.

        2. Karo*

          When I had my first kid it was a lot easier to say yes to specific offers of help (e.g. “I want to drop off food for you; is 2:00 ok?”) but I still really appreciated the people offering general assistance even though I invariably turned them down.

          All this to say – I wouldn’t necessarily stop saying “is there anything I can do?” but it’s certainly more helpful if you can offer a specific actionable plan.

      2. AndersonDarling*

        You just made my day/year/life! My husband (ADHD) is constantly doing this when I’m venting about terrible things and I’ve been interpreting it as being selfish and wanting to move the focus to himself. I have NEVER considered that this is a method of relating.
        You have given me much to ponder. ;-D

        1. nnn*

          I saw somewhere else someone said this is common with ADHD and can anyone explain why? To a non-ADHD person like myself it’s not clear why they’d be connected.

          1. Productivity Pigeon*

            I also have ADHD and I’m honestly not entirely sure.

            Except maybe that we often speak without thinking and overshare and that sometimes mean we blurt out things that land wrong.

          2. Wayward Sun*

            I’m not exactly sure but I think it’s related to how ADHD people are extremely prone to free association. Our brains tend to be a little hyperactive when it comes to “oh, this thing is like this other thing!” type connections.

            1. Productivity Pigeon*

              Haha, omg, yes! Sometimes I just lose my thread of thinking and have to try and work out what I was thinking about and it can be a journey!

              Let’s say I’m reading a book about midwives. One of the midwives is called Sister Bernadette which makes me think about Saint Bernadette who saw her visions at Lourdes, which is in France and I’ve spent most of my visits at the French Riviera where there is a famous art museum in the mountains called Foundation Maeght where I once bought an art print and that is now in my basement and I should go down and get it and put on my bedroom wall…

              1. Hannah Lee*

                Same! And it can be complicated when there’s a physical aspect of that chain of association .. like if you actually get up to go get the print and come across *other* things that kick off additional associations. So a hour later you’re standing on a step-stool replacing a light bulb in your bathroom, or coming up for air after a deep internet dive into the history of lithography and its use in 19th century advertising.
                And then you walk past the living room and see your book and a cold cup of tea exactly where you left them when your brains took you for a walk about.

                1. Productivity Pigeon*

                  Absolutely!

                  I often have to retrace my steps to try to trigger the thought again!

            2. Lily Rowan*

              Oh man, I do not think I have ADHD but my brain can definitely go too far with free associating, and sometimes too much of that comes out of my mouth!

              1. Cheesehead*

                My brain works like that…it just jumps from one thing to the next and the end result is nowhere near where things started. But one of the funniest things was once, decades ago, when I was driving somewhere with my (late) mother. I said something, don’t even know what it was. Then we both were silent for a few minutes, and when she next spoke, the next topic was waaaaayyy different than the previous thing that I’d just said. But the weird thing was that I totally knew how she got there, because my brain worked in the same way! I was cognizant enough to realize it at the time and we had a good laugh about it after I pointed out how random the subject change was but I still understood it.

                1. Elizabeth West*

                  Aww, that’s a funny story re your mom. :)

                  Mine brain like this too, and most people say my conversation is hard to follow because I jump around so much. But it makes sense to me! Sometimes I’m changing back to an original subject on which I had more to say, or the conversation got sidetracked and I’m trying to return to it.

          3. Reading Rainbow*

            I don’t have any like scientific backing of this specific behavior (someone else might) as I did not realize until these comments that this is something we have in common. But ADHD (and its cousin OCD) rotate heavily around anxiety and impulse control. It’s sort of a misnomer to consider it a disorder primarily of attention span.

            For me with stuff like this the pattern was: Hear someone is having a hard time. Get nervous because how do I respond? How do I make sure they know I care and maybe reassure them or make them feel better? I can try to relate to them so they know that I understand and care. This is now coming out of my mouth without a lot of consideration for how it might sound because saying it will make me no longer feel nervous or worried about the situation.

            1. Ms. Afleet Alex*

              Yes! Thank you for saying it like that! I’m so glad I’m not the only one who goes through that mental process. It’s actually a relief to hear that other people feel the same way.

            2. Slow Gin Lizz*

              It’s sort of a misnomer to consider it a disorder primarily of attention span.

              Absolutely a misnomer, not just “sort of” one. ADHD experts are always saying that, among other things, it’s a disorder of attention overall, not just of attention span specifically. Which is one reason it’s so often missed because hyperfocus is also one of the symptoms but your average person thinks, “Well, Slow Gin Lizz can’t possible have attention *deficit* issues, look at how well she focuses on her knitting when she really wants to!” But, see, SGL will *hyperfocus* on her knitting because it’s giving her a nice hit of dopamine in a way that other activities aren’t doing so she keeps knitting for hours and forgets to do things like eat dinner because she gets more dopamine from the knitting than from feeding herself. Sometimes SGL gets some real good dopamine from AAM commenting too.

              Ahem. Just sayin’. I knew a woman in college who was like Margo and she drove me nuts. Years later I learned that she, too, has ADHD and it explained a lot. Now, I don’t know if she still manages to turn every conversation towards herself because I haven’t seen her in about 20 years, but I hope she has a little more self-awareness about it now. (Do I also tend to turn the conversation towards myself? Yeah, probably, as evidenced by my AAM comments….)

              1. Reading Rainbow*

                I actually almost said the name was fully a misnomer as described by people focusing on the ways in which children’s behavior was specifically affecting them, the real protagonists of reality, but I decided that was an unnecessary can of worms to open hahaha.

              2. TobiShiro*

                Yes, this! I’ve heard ADHD described as not so much a “deficit of attention” but rather the inability to control where the attention goes. I have lots of capacity to pay attention…to things that I find interesting.

                1. metadata minion*

                  Yup. It took me ages to get diagnosed partly because who would have thought something with “hyperactivity” in the name could present as *fatigue*?? But it can, because a) there are non-hyperactive variants, and b) my brain is essentially tiring itself out trying to pay attention to ALL THE THINGS.

                  I don’t have most of the “benefits” some people like to talk about coming with ADHD, but my particular superpower is that I am absolutely the person you want with you on a nature walk. I will see *all the things*. I’m not the person you want if you’re hiking briskly up a mountain for exercise, but I will stop every 5 paces and show you another cool bug.

          4. Sar*

            absolutely no idea but I am late-diagnosed ADHD and do this too. I also partake in “conversational overlapping” (i.e., interrupting), which mostly manifests as this totally cringe thing where I chime in and complete your sentence. In my head, this is to show that we are totally on the same wavelength! Sympatico! Same brain, wow! Kismet! We’re basically best friends!

            I mostly do not think I manifest rejection-sensitive dysphoria (RSD) but my brain does interpret questions as “please entertain me” rather than “I am engaging in socialized small talk” so I end up telling “funny stories” a lot. Combine this with “relating by telling a similar anecdote” and the interrupting and I’ve come to realize that my whole vibe definitely comes off as rude af to more people than I’d like.

            1. kicking-k*

              I do all this too. I often come away from a social interaction thinking “oh no, I’m sure I talked too much”. I don’t seem to be able to control this much in the moment. It has been noticeably worse in jobs where I don’t actually interact very much with others, so instead of a lot of little interactions, there’s a lot of silence/lone working and occasional blurting.

            2. Meaningful hats*

              This is my husband’s flavor of ADHD. It can drive me a little nuts sometimes, but thankfully his lack of RSD means I can bluntly tell him to stop interrupting me and he doesn’t get upset. I, on the other hand, have allll the RSD. It’s an interesting dynamic.

          5. anglerfish*

            adhd is a lot more complex than “hyperactive, doesn’t pay attention”.

            Sections of the frontal lobe (portion of brain generally thought responsible for decision-making and “personality”), motor cortex, and language centers are all wired differently; the adhd brain is generally thought of as able to make connections and identify patterns very rapidly but at the expense of grasping fine details. (and each person with adhd will be different, this is a broad brush defined by the sorts of people who participate in studies & surveys in the first place.)

            In my personal experience, adhd also leads to some ostracization by peers early on in development, whether it’s because the child is called a trouble-maker by adults (and thus other children are warned to stay away) or whether it’s other children just not clicking with the adhd child. So they start to fall behind socially, no one is telling them what they’re doing wrong in a way that a child can understand, which just compounds itself over time.

          6. Insulindian Phasmid*

            As an autistic person, I don’t see how they AREN’T connected. If you tell me that A happened to you, and I say “That sucks, A1 happened to me,” it’s only because A and A1 seem to be similar things.

            So I wouldn’t go so far as “My dad had mild covid” in response to “my dad died”, but I could see myself saying “Oh gosh, I remember how scared I was when my dad was sick” as an (apparently poor) expression of “I have some sense of how you must be feeling even if it’s not exactly the same”

            2. Insert Pun Here*

              So, I don’t think this is the WORST thing you can say. But the reason why it won’t land well with most people is that the emotions don’t “match” — grief/sadness is different from fear. I think *especially* with grief/loss, there needs to be a 1-to-1 match to make a connection this way.

              I do think that most people see this kind of thing as well intentioned but clueless, rather than malicious, unless they already know the person to be super self-involved, etc.

              1. Annie2*

                Yes, reading this comment section I fear people are taking away that you should never ever reply with a “I’ve been through something similar” type of response in these kinds of situations. That’s not quite true! It’s okay to briefly comment if you’ve been through something similar – the key is not to launch into a whole story and to keep the focus on the person talking. Something like “ugh, we went through something similar with my dad and it was tough. Let me know if you want me to cover the Big Meeting for you today, or if there’s anything else I can do.”

                1. Insulindian Phasmid*

                  That makes sense, both of you. Just explaining for nnn :) I have gotten better about catching myself before doing an empathy story. I also interact with a lot of other autistic and ADHD people so we know we can empathy story within our own circles.

                2. Wayward Sun*

                  I think the concept of “trauma circles” comes in here, too; basically when someone is dealing with a traumatic event, you aren’t allowed to complain to them, only to people farther removed from the trauma than you.

                  This does get rough if you’re doing relatively well compared to your friends, though, because you basically lose the ability to talk about your life with anyone.

          7. Ellis Bell*

            The really wild thing is, that (sometimes) if you do it to another person with ADHD, they totally do it back to you by connecting what you’ve said to another completely random dot, but still somewhat attached to the original conversation. It can be the best and weirdest conversation sometimes.

            1. Slow Gin Lizz*

              Haha, I have a friend who definitely changes topics in her brain without her mouth notifying others of this and she’ll suddenly say something completely unrelated to anything else we’ve been talking about all day and it’s pretty hilarious sometimes.

              1. Loredena*

                My sister and I weren’t diagnosed until our 50s, and our mother had not bothered to pursue a diagnosis. We’ve spent our entire lives having conversations like this! We also all do the thing of starting the conversation in the middle because we had half of it in our heads, and all of us usually just pick it up. Was so interesting to realize this is part of our ADHD!

            2. anon with adhd*

              Yes, most of us are following the golden rule — “do unto others as you would like them to do unto you”, which has the big fundamental flaw of “not everyone likes the same thing”, alas.

              I have been to parties where the alcohol is flowing freely and most of the group is adhd/autistic/both/some other flavor of neurodivergence, and the conversation flow is both WILDLY random and so much fun. Tangent to tangent to tangent. And will suddenly boomerang back five topics when someone who’s a little less aggressive about cutting in decides they still want to say what they were thinking a while ago.

        2. Sally Jackson*

          Does your spouse ever turn the conversation back to you? I think that’s the real problem, especially if we’re talking about a life partner. It really doesn’t matter how pure the intentions are when impact is the same.

          1. A Person*

            Yes, this. It’s been fascinating to follow this whole conversation because this is 100% a trait of my mom’s and she does it in the worst possible way – both often “empathizing” by talking about a thing of hers that’s only mildly related and then using it to launch into her own story.

            I know it’s not mine to fix (as much as I want to give her the advice to “turn back” SO MUCH) but it’s so hard when you have to tell your mom “*hey* you didn’t actually end up offering any sympathy and I still had things to say”. Honestly I’m pretty bad at that and mostly end up frustrated.

        3. Lisa*

          I think the “Related experience – expression of sympathy – turn focus back” framework mentioned above might really help to bring up with your spouse!

        4. londonedit*

          Yep, I have a friend who does this, and coincidentally she’s just been diagnosed with adult ADHD. It honestly is her way of trying to relate and to join in the conversation – but in her case, you’ll say something like ‘Oh, so annoying, I’m going to have to get a new battery for the car’ and that’ll provoke a half-hour monologue from her about her car and the last time she drove it and when she was on the motorway and someone cut her up and she was really angry and the fact that she really needs to wash it but the weather’s been so bad that is there really any point…and so on. I’m absolutely sure that in her mind, all of that means ‘Oh goodness yes that is annoying, let me empathise with you by telling you my car stories’, but to me (I don’t have ADHD or anything to suggest that I might have ADHD) it comes across as ‘Never mind about your problems, here’s a load of stuff about me’. I do have to remember that it’s just how her brain works, though, and that she isn’t being selfish or doing it on purpose. It’s just how conversation works in her brain.

        5. tired*

          As an AuDHD person (newly discovered, and so many things are being changed or illuminated as I learn about the differences), I have always struggled to understand why other people think that saying “oh that sucks” is a complete response WITHOUT showing how they empathise (that is, sharing how/why they really do get it, or explaining their similar experiences) – it feels dismissive and rude to me. What other people might call over-explaining is, to me, what I need to feel heard at all and therefore what I offer to others when I want them to know that I am listening and hearing what they are sharing.

          I just thought most people were self-centred and not actually listening/engaged with the conversation, and that I had to fake that same disconnect to be acceptable… it still FEELS like that, but I know it’s a real, fundamental wiring difference now

    2. Momma Bear*

      Same. There are people who are clueless and egotistical and there are people who are trying to show empathy via comparison. Either one can be a problem in context but IMO one is less worse than the other.

      I think that OP can talk to Margo and say, “I don’t know if you intended but…” even if it’s a botched attempt at empathy.

    3. H.Regalis*

      They try to relate by talking about something similar they experienced.

      This seems like a very normal thing people do, neurodivergent or not. Is it really that unusual? I personally wouldn’t use the phrase “I know how you feel” unless I had had the exact same thing happen to me, but that feels really nitpicky.

      That said, I can definitely see why Margo isn’t coming off well. It would be grating to have someone make everyone about themself like that. Based solely on what LW writes, I’d also hazard a guess that Margo is trying to show empathy but messing it up. I agree with Alison’s advice for if you have a good rapport with her and you’re reasonably certain she’s not going to blow her stack at the slightest hint of criticism.

      1. Productivity Pigeon*

        I guess the issue is what one considers a comparable situation.
        Is a mother dying comparable to a father? What about a grandmother who raised you?

        Or if someone is hospitalized due to Covid? Is it comparable to have been hospitalized with a kidney infection? Or needing surgery for a broken leg? And so on and so forth.

        What about the level of emotional involvement? Something that might seem relatively minor to Person A, say a car breaking down, could be life-changing to the point of losing their home to Person B who has mo savings and a lot of debt.

        I totally see why it quickly becomes complicated to navigate for a lot of people.

        2. Observer*

          I guess the issue is what one considers a comparable situation.

          That’s part of it. Some things are hard to gauge, and also can be very specific. But some things are so widely divergent that it seems like people should recognize that it really is not the same. So parent vs grandparent being ill could be considered highly similar by many people. But it’s hard to see “past illness that someone recovered from” as being at all similar to “someone died”.

        3. Annie2*

          Yes, 100%. The issue is that Margo’s comparisons are way, way off, not that she’s mentioning her own experience at all.

        4. Dido*

          Anyone with a brain would know that your dad getting a minor case of Covid and recovering quickly is NOT comparable to someone else’s dad DYING

          1. Anony today*

            I don’t think Productivity Pigeon was excusing that in their comment.
            With their point about “Is a mother dying comparable to a father? What about a grandmother who raised you?” though they certainly hit on something that happened to me in reverse.
            I mentioned to someone that I worried about one of my grandparents dying soon, as they were already in ICU. The other person didn’t really acknowledge it and said something to the effect of “Imagine loosing a parent, I lost my father last year.” Since they are usually kind, I have the feeling in retrospect that I was just having an awkward conversation with a grieving person.
            They probably were simply still dealing with their own loss and may have had a very different approach to or assumption about family closeness.
            Were they wrong in blurting that out? Maybe a bit and I didn’t say anything in the moment, because I was stressed out and numb. But I also don’t know how close they were to their father or if the loss was very unexpected or any number of reasons they may have been hit especially hard. Sometimes we just get it wrong a bit. Hopefully we get the chance to grow past that and others who can extend some grace to us.

      2. Quinine..I need quinine*

        I think the OP mis-titled the question. It sounds like they don’t mind Margo comparing these things to her own, just that the comparisons are way off

      3. fhqwhgads*

        It is a normal thing people do, but it’s also a nuanced thing. Margo’s not doing it with any nuance. Margo’s version comes out like someone gave her a formula “when someone mentions an experience, bring up your own similar experience to show you relate to them”. Even her starting with “I get it” in all the examples suggests this is a formula. Whether someone told her to do it, or she just learned the pattern on her own, who knows. Doesn’t really matter. But she’s misapplying it because her internal gauge for what is similar is very miscalibrated.

      4. londonedit*

        I think the thing is that what I’d do to express sympathy would be to say something like ‘Oh no, I’m so sorry to hear about your dad. What a difficult time – I know when my great-aunt died last year there was so much to sort out, and all when you least feel like doing it. Do you know when the funeral will be yet?’ Rather than ‘Oh, I’m sorry to hear that – my great-aunt died last year and it was so horrible, so much admin, everyone was so sad, and then we couldn’t have the funeral for three weeks because the crematorium was so busy, and my sister was trying to work out when she’d be able to fly back from where she lives in Spain, and the whole thing was such a nightmare…’. It’s fine to share that you know something about how they’re feeling because of your own experience, but then you bring the conversation back to them. You don’t make it all about yourself.

    4. Aggretsuko*

      I try to relate to people like that, and after I’ve said “I had similar thing,” try to circle back to THEIR thing again.

      That said, I wouldn’t claim any kind of parenting knowledge, oy.

      1. Slow Gin Lizz*

        I try to do this too, because I actually hate making a conversation about me when it shouldn’t be, and I also hate when others do that. I hope I succeed.

    5. SunnyShine*

      I think OP should just ignore it. Margo isn’t hurting anyone. She doesn’t need to mother Margo or correct her. Sounds like Margo is trying to emphasize the best way she knows how.

      But if she must say something, I think it’s better and more kind to say “I think you are trying to emphasize with people problems but it comes across as minimizing their problems when you compare your problems to theirs.”

      1. pamela voorhees*

        While I don’t think she HAS to do something, I think it would be a kindness. It’s incorrect to say Margo isn’t hurting anyone — she’s definitely hurting people’s feelings, and that’s going to impact her relationships with others. Margo, who is probably doing her best, is going to eventually start wondering why nobody seems to want to talk to her any more — OP isn’t obligated, but it’d be a kindness to Margo.

        1. Fitzie's chew toy*

          Many commentors here are very kind and giving Margo a lot of grace. Not me. I worked with a woman like this for years. Every conversation in the faculty room turned to how much worse her situation was. Two teachers’ children had cancer, but HER daughter had gall bladder trouble. She drove me nuts and the solution was to avoid her. The sad thing was she had a nice husband, nice home, and nice children. We all liked the gall bladder daughter, but no one really liked her.

          1. Paint N Drip*

            I think this is important to think about – without intervention, Margo may well become your coworker. If Margo is a nice person who means well, I don’t want to see her become someone no one likes and laments about years later. Let’s give Margo grace AND point it out so she can change if she wishes

    6. Dawn*

      I’m AuDHD and it’s certainly something that I do (although I try to verbally acknowledge the disparity between any two situations.) It’s one way that I try to demonstrate that I genuinely can empathize, and I’m not just paying lip service to the idea.

    7. cat in cardboard box*

      Yep, I could see a younger version of me as Margo. From me it was never anything but a good faith attempt at connection and empathy. Finding out that others might be interpreting those attempts as the total opposite of my intention … well, it still stings a little, but I’ve put a lot of effort into adjusting. Interestingly, all my closest friends say they see nothing wrong with this conversation pattern… and in recent years we’re all at different points along our journeys of discovering our neurodivergence. ._.

    8. AuDHD Millennial Manager*

      As someone with ADHD and Autism I relate to Margo so much. I also don’t think I’d ever notice if someone was trying to “one-up” me and would take them at their word that they understand how I feel and empathize with what I’m going through.

  6. SheLooksFamiliar*

    I’ve worked with a few Margos and tried to believe they were awkward at showing empathy. But a couple were all about one-upmanship: ‘Oh, Jane has the flu? That’s nothing, I’ve dealt with allergies all my life,’ or ‘Sorry to hear your kid broke their ankle, but it could’ve been so much worse. My neighbor’s kid sprained both his ankles.’

    ‘Those aren’t really comparable’ should work for most Margos. For the kind I referred to above, my team and I said something along the lines of, ‘This isn’t a competition, Margo, and you wouldn’t want to win it anyway.’

    1. Venus*

      You have Type 2 diabetes? I have Type 1.
      You have Hepatitis A? I have B.

      Illness isn’t a competition!

      I agree with others that thankfully Margo seems well-intentioned and should be open to a conversation about it.

    2. But Actually*

      I find it’s usually pretty easy to tell when someone wants to play Hardship Olympics versus someone’s attempted empathy not landing well. I’ve worked with both types of people. The former always have what they portray as a more dire story while the latter usually just have a story.

      One of the worst, but funniest example of being one-upped was my mildly complaining to a coworker about something a little overbearing my mom did, and having Worst Coworker Ever butt in to say “at least she’s alive, my mom died years ago!”.

      1. Sara*

        OK, I believe you that your coworker was trying to one-up you since you presumably knew them well, but this statement on its own it can be taken to mean “your mom might be annoying but you will miss her once she’s gone” which is a different sentiment all together and not that unreasonable.

        1. Sar*

          I honestly think that’s an inside thought (as in, stays inside the braincase), especially for work colleagues. Like, everyone knows intellectually that moms don’t live forever—so does it need to be said? It’s literally implying that people should never complain about their moms, and work colleagues don’t really have standing to make that request.

        2. S*

          Oh, but the “you’ll miss her when she’s gone” is such a rude thing to say! No one wants to be scolded when expressing frustration, and you can both love someone deeply and be really annoyed at them. And it’s a conversation-closer: there isn’t a good answer and there’s no way to redirect back to the thing you’re discussing without looking like a callous jerk.

        3. C*

          this statement on its own it can be taken to mean “your mom might be annoying but you will miss her once she’s gone” which is a different sentiment all together and not that unreasonable.

          It is unreasonable, though.

          If the person griping about their mother has a good relationship with Mom then they really don’t need to be chided like a child.

          And if they don’t then that’s painful enough without having people sneer at them for it.

  7. duinath*

    “that’s not the same thing” is a very good place to start, and if it continues i would go ahead and turn to “that’s an odd thing to say”.

    return weirdness to sender.

    1. Quinine..I need quinine*

      That seems pointlessly rude. Why is it so wrong if Margo’s comparisons aren’t perfectly accurate?

      1. Sar*

        “aren’t perfectly accurate” vs. “way off, in a way that feels like she is minimizing the thing by implicitly suggesting that they serve as an apt comparison”.

        It really comes down to the reasonableness of the comparison. Death of a parent = death of an immediate family member; anything less than that should probably be couched as “I can’t imagine how bereft you are, I’ve lost my grandma but not either parent.” Definitely not “my parent was sick but got better” unless there is some additional context that makes the comparison better (“When my dad had Covid last year, it was touch and go and we were actually talking about removing him from the ventilator when we were suddenly told that against all odds he was improving–obviously, it’s not comparable, but I was a complete wreck at work and Lucinda really helped me by taking my night shift so please let me know if there are any shifts I can take for you!”).

        She is reliably offering comparisons that are less bad/intense–i.e., the errors are all going in one direction. This also suggests a lack of empathy/willingness to exaggerate her own hardships. Not entirely the same as “Tragedy is if I get a hangnail. Comedy is if you slip on a banana peel and die.”, but a cousin to it.

        1. Sara*

          I think this is genuinely tricky and I’m not sure how you would coach somebody to do better unless you are pretty close to them.
          This reminds me of the time my friend had a miscarriage, and I shared that I had a similar very scary event with a lot of bleeding and continued high risk pregnancy, but the baby ended up healthy. I meant to express solidarity but I’m not that good at reading people, so maybe it was received differently (my friend did have several kids by that time, it was not like she was battling infertility, but still…).
          In any case, if somebody had told me during that conversation that I was beinginappropriate, it would have seriously embarrassed me, so it would be much kinder to draw them aside first.

      2. duinath*

        not perfectly accurate? that’s a vast understatement.

        the point is to make it clear to her this isn’t coming across as kind. that’s why we start with pointing out the flaw in her thinking (your nephew in another town does not, in fact, let you know exactly how a parent feels) by saying it’s not the same, and then we move on to pointing out how weird it is to say these things if after you’ve done that for some time she still doesn’t listen.

        i am all for manners, but letting someone be unkind is a step too far. that is what margo is doing, whether or not she intends it.

        most good people will appreciate being called out on being unkind, in time if not in the moment. it allows them to recognize what they are doing, and stop doing it.

      3. SQLWitch*

        “Why is it so wrong if Margo’s comparisons aren’t perfectly accurate?”

        Because, intentionally or not, if she’s equating the other person’s serious issue with her own less-serious one, she’s covertly trivializing the other person’s experience.

        I train hotline responders, and we explicitly teach people to watch out for this because it’s so devastating to a person in a vulnerable state. And it’s equally devastating when the person means well but is just incompetent at empathizing. Possible more so because the person on the receiving end will take the invalidation more to heart if they sense the speaker’s benevolence.

        1. Quinine..I need quinine*

          that’s a good point, but I don’t think it’s fair to hold Margo or any random work colleague to the standard of a trained hotline responder.

          1. pamela voorhees*

            The point isn’t that Margo has to have the skills of a trained hotline responder, it’s “this particular thing she is doing is a bad habit because it’s devastating to a person in a vulnerable state, and I know that because I train hotline responders.”

          2. Tango*

            if a random colleague’s behavior is so bad it’s shifting team dynamics (like as with the parents not wanting to bring up their kids for fear of the false equivalences) then it is indeed time to hold them to a higher standard of behavior before they can do additional damage to the team culture.

      4. allathian*

        Because she isn’t turning the conversation back to the other speaker.
        Coworker: My granddad fell and broke his hip, and he’s now in hospital.
        Margo: I’m sorry to hear that. When my grandma sprained her ankle, my grandpa was more or less her nurse for a month. (Assuming Mardo knows the coworker’s grandma is still alive) How’s your grandma holding up?

        Turning the conversation back to the original speaker shows empathy. Just stating a vaguely similar but less serious incident doesn’t quite cut it, I’m afraid.

        1. Quinine..I need quinine*

          I get that, I’m just not sure if I’m op I would care to get involved with it. If my grandfather was in the hospital, Margo’s own story wouldn’t really matter either way. I’m not trying to correct people’s manners at work, or change their level of empathy

      5. fhqwhgads*

        Margo’s a mile and a half away from “perfectly accurate”. Come on? Someone’s father died last week and her dad had a mild case of a serious illness and recovered completely a year ago?

        1. Quinine..I need quinine*

          Maybe I’m too forgiving but I thought it might be a case of Margo wanting to make the OP feel better by saying it could be something mild. Either way though I don’t think “what an odd thing to say” is a good use of that AAM zinger in this case

          1. Daydreamer*

            Margo wasn’t speaking to someone whose father was ill. She was speaking to someone whose father died. But I agree that “what an odd thing to say” doesn’t feel like the right thing to say, if OP gets the sense that Margo is genuinely trying to be kind and missing the mark.

          3. fhqwhgads*

            I’m not suggesting the “odd thing to say” is a useful response here, just strongly disagreeing the comparison was anything close to logical. Being already dead cannot be “mild”.
            Also, Margo’s offense isn’t just in the poorly chosen comparisons. It’s her use of “I know just how you feel”. I do realize OP might not have been quoting verbatim, but each example have some variation on that phrase. So Margo is literally saying “these two things are just the same”.

  8. Mark Greene*

    It sounds like Margo is trying to relate and it’s not coming across as she means. I would tell her as a kindness.

  9. Starfox*

    This is a very common way for neurodivergent people to try to relate to others, please before you do anything try to figure out what her purpose is. If she’s trying to empathize she’ll be blindsided & very confused to suddenly have someone tell her she sounds like she’s trying to make everything about her. (ask me how I know…)

    1. Lola*

      She might get confused, but she needs to learn that she’s coming across as insensitive and self-centered. Her coworkers don’t have to play a guessing game on whether she’s neurodivergent or not.

      1. pamela voorhees*

        It’s better to blindside/confuse her than to let her keep doing it and ruin her relationships.

      2. I'm just here for the cats!!*

        I don’t think Starfox is saying the coworkers are having to guess if she is neurodivergent. There is nothing in the letter that indicates that she is doing this maliciously or to be the center of attention. She sounds like she is trying to join in the conversation and show she understands.

        Can you imagine you think you are just being kind to your coworkers and then someone says something rude to you or accusines you of trying to steal the conversation? How would that make you feel? You would be hurt and confused. Maybe someone should talk to her, kindly. Or maybe they could just realize that this is how she communicates and shows empathy.

        1. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

          I think it’s funny that Margo’s failure to show empathy should be… met with empathy.

          I can imagine your hypotheticals. I think they have happened to most people. Feeling bad/hurt/confused isn’t the end of the world. You would be able to get your confusion resolved if you then asked questions of the person. And then maybe the two of you could gain understanding of each other, instead of expecting it all to go one way. Silently. By making assumptions.

          BTW, “this is just how I communicate” is not set in stone. We are all capable of learning new things, including how to communicate better.

          1. DisgruntledPelican*

            Yes, now you know some people show empathy by offering up a similar story to tell the person they are talking to that they are not alone. So now you can communicate better.

        2. Observer*

          Or maybe they could just realize that this is how she communicates and shows empathy.

          No. For two reasons.

          Firstly, it’s a LOT to expect someone too see someone who compares the death of their parent to the brief illness a year ago of the speaker as “just the way they communicate”. It’s neither reasonable nor realistic.

          Also, this is not a show of actual empathy. It may be an attempt to portray empathy, and it may even be done in good faith. But it is still not empathetic. Because the difference between what is being compared is big enough that if there were any empathy in the mix, the speaker would know that. Rather it sounds like someone who does not actually have empathy, but knows that they are supposed to have and show empathy and misunderstood a formula on how to do that.

          Which means that she’s not a monster. But she still needs to know that what she’s doing is a problem. And if she’s actually acting in good faith she won’t be happy to be blindsided, but she will change her behavior before she manages to destroy her relationships with a lot of people, and do a lot of damage to her career.

  10. Quinine..I need quinine*

    This doesn’t seem like a huge problem, but I get it can be slightly annoying. I’d probably just nod in agreement

    1. Death by a Thousand Cuts*

      It is not a huge problem. It is a repeated problem because the same person is doing the same thing to you over and over again vs one-time.

      I’m feeling empathetic today, but so often the question is “how can I make this stop?” and I wonder why can’t you just ignore it (other than you don’t like it and you feel like the other person should make you comfortable by stopping).

    2. Productivity Pigeon*

      I’d be pretty upset if someone compared my father dying to their father having a mild illness, I won’t lie.

      1. Lola*

        Exactly, yes. This has the potential of being deeply offensive, even if in some instances (like the car repair) it’s just annoying.

        1. MigraineMonth*

          Exactly. The car repair example was just a bit annoying. Unfortunately, the other examples (comparing a mild illness to a death, comparing having a nephew to having children) have the potential to come off as very rude, minimizing others’ struggles or self-centered (as the LW’s framing demonstrates). It is probably already putting a strain on at least some of Margo’s work relationships.

          I think it would be a kindness to point out the pattern to Margo as a way her words aren’t landing as intended, but LW isn’t Margo’s manager or close friend and therefore doesn’t have any obligation to do anything.

      2. Quinine..I need quinine*

        that’s fair – Margo comes off like a child if she really thinks those are comparable..

      3. Unsure where this goes*

        Yes, you would be upset. Yes, this has the potential of being deeply offensive. Yes, Margo comes off like a child if she really thinks those are comparable.

      4. I'm just here for the cats!!*

        I agree that it’s not the same. But maybe for her it was a huge deal. Like maybe she was worried that he would die, or this was the first time anything like this had happened

    3. Friendly Office Bi*

      It’s a problem if parents in the office are literally avoiding talking about their children to avoid these comparisons. It’s creating a dynamic where people no longer feel comfortable sharing information about their lives, so I’d say it’s a decently sized problem.

  11. Festively Dressed Earl*

    “Those aren’t really comparable” will work only if Margo is truly well intentioned. Be prepared for her to double down in a big way.

    1. Dawbs*

      Honestly, i don’t think it will work if she IS well intentioned.
      If i were trying to create connection and show empathy and was told it wasn’t comparable when, in my mind, it is comparable (and i kinda think the examples given are), I would just be confused and either be humiliated that I’m failing at social norms and scuttle off OR be confused and ask clarifying questions that would not go over well and probably make everyone think I’m self- centered because there’s no way to ask that wouldn’t look that way.

        1. Dawbs*

          i must confess a reading comprehension fail on that one -i read it as her dad had a bad case, and was imagining the whole “it is so hard to take care of our parents” piece. (in my defense, i don’t have one, it’s just that sort of reading day).

          The other 2, depending, i get. car expenses suck,universally. Chronic pain is a beast.

        2. Insulindian Phasmid*

          Not in degree, but in kind, maybe. I can absolutely see myself channeling My Feelings about a parent being sick when trying to relate to Your Feelings about your parent having died. You’re facing the thing that I was afraid would happen. It’s not the same, by any means. But it’s not on a completely different topic either.

        3. anglerfish*

          The uncertainty and fear.

          Margo is letting some big assumptions do the work and they’re obviously wrong assumptions now that both situations have a conclusion (one in healing and one in death), but the base emotion she’s drawing the parallel between is “at one point in time, we both feared someone we loved would die”. She’s remembering her fear and believing that it’s sufficient to relate to someone who has also experienced that fear, without realizing that the vast difference in outcomes would retroactively change how that fear is experienced.

          1. Saturday*

            Yeah, rather than thinking they’ve had similar experiences, I think she’s thought about how difficult and frightening it would be to lose her parent, and she’s using that feeling to relate to her coworker. Quite possible she doesn’t realize how it’s coming across.

        4. Ezra*

          Not the actual events, but I could see the stress feeling similar (especially as we don’t know the rest of the context around the covid – does her dad have comorbidities? Had she lost someone else before that and was feeling especially sensitive when it happened?)
          My dad has terminal cancer and my stepdad died (also of cancer) a few years ago, so “dad has covid” is an incredibly scary and stressful thing for me personally even if it turns out mild. *I* probably wouldn’t make the comparison because I do still have my dad, but I could see someone else concluding that the fear is comparable enough to the actual grief for an “I know how you feel.”

  12. Frosty*

    As a broader culture we aren’t really taught how to respond to difficult situations (or things that are just “a bummer”) and I wish we would give people more tools and practice on how to do it with more sensitivity and finesse.

    Sure some people just want the spotlight on them, but this problem is so pervasive that I think most people come with their hearts in the right place and just kind of biff it.

    1. MigraineMonth*

      People complain about platitudes seeming insincere, but this is exactly the reason for them: most people don’t like thinking about death or loss, and there are only so many work-appropriate ways to say, “Oh shit, that sucks monkey balls. I have no idea how you’re feeling right now and honestly don’t even want to imagine how I’d feel in your situation. I’m certain there’s nothing at all that I can do to help, but I’m going to offer anyway because I’m feeling awkward.”

  13. Shhh*

    I’m a pretty socially awkward person and have been like that. I agree that a well-placed, direct but kind comment about it will likely help.

      1. Teacher Lady*

        Definitely not in front of other people, at least not the first time OP raises it (assuming OP decides to do so). I think that if Margo continues doing this after hearing the feedback, and especially if her remarks are actively distressing the people who are actually experiencing challenging situations, a brief, neutrally delivered “That’s hardly the same thing, Margo,” would be appropriate in a group. Margo may be being uncourteous by accident or on purpose, but a courteous and generous approach reflects well on the OP, even if Margo is doing this to be rude.

  14. satin*

    A coworker of mine recently mentioned that he had to really work to break the habit of bringing conversations back to himself, because he started out in a high-pressure sales job where he was trained to make as many connections as possible with potential customers. No matter how much of a stretch, he was drilled on making “connections” between himself and his leads. Even after leaving sales, he still felt like he needed to connect with coworkers as much as possible, which ironically made him seem self-centered. So I do think it would be a kindness to either address it in the moment, with some of Alison’s suggestions, or if you really have a good relationship, mention it in private.
    Also as a note, I worked with a different coworker who also brought everything back to herself, but she was definitely trying to one-up everyone. It was fairly easy to tell the difference. So I would give Margo the benefit of the doubt if she really seems well-intentioned.

    1. Lauren H.*

      That’s interesting insight from your coworker! I definitely noticed conversational habits that I picked up from growing up with my family that I’ve needed to consciously reprogram for the rest of the world. (Interjecting [aka interrupting!], in my case)

      I agree that how I handle it would be based on Margot’s intention/style and the vibe among the rest of your coworkers. Is this something you can acknowledge happens with your close colleagues and make amused eye contact with each other each time it happens? That could diffuse your aggravation. If it’s something you can draw attention to light-heartedly in the moment I think that’s a great option. Once an Irish colleague was doing a jokey rant about Mariah Carey appropriating Irish culture. In the same tone I brought up that White people have a much deepen and broader history of appropriating black culture. The other colleagues in the convo said “great point” and the conversation moved on. If you do think talking to Margot one-on-one is best I find “I feel a bit awkward bringing this up but I’d want someone to do the same for me” is a helpful intro. Just as if she had food in her teeth or her fly was down.

      1. MigraineMonth*

        My family of origin corrects each other, and my parents always encouraged my sister and I to correct them as well. Turns out the rest of the world does *not* enjoy girls or young women correcting them (or arguing with them in class, even if they are teaching the wrong definition for an integral).

        I think the suggestion of pulling Margot aside and explaining that responding with sympathy rather than a related experience will usually go over better is a good one. I don’t know about making amused eye contact; I might do that for an irritating behavior of the boss’ boss that I can’t change, but for a peer that seems too much like making fun of someone behind their back when you could just talk to them.

    2. anon for this*

      I was in a social situation where I interacted a lot with people who were famous or otherwise ‘important people’ and needed to be able to make conversation that didn’t involve whatever they were famous or known for.
      It was kind of fun to be able to draw people out in ways they weren’t used to, but I often used personal anecdotes as ice breakers and went from there.
      Decades later I still have the compulsion to engage people by sharing innocuous things we might have in common.

  15. H.Regalis*

    This makes me think of when my friend The Fixer does her “let me put you on some game ;)” spiel about how to deal with little kid nonsense (“I wanted mac n cheese and now I’m throwing a tantrum because I have mac n cheese!”) when she is neither a parent nor works in early childhood. I know she’s trying to be helpful, but that is not how it comes across. I’m guessing Margo is trying to show empathy, but that is not the message received.

  16. Olive*

    I agree with the advice to pull her aside and be honest but kind about how some of the worst examples are coming across. Comparing a death with someone who easily recovered might have been truly hurtful for the coworker who lost a parent, even if Margo didn’t mean for it to be, and it would be a kindness to everyone to address it discreetly.

    Alternatively, I have a colleague who can turn any conversation toward her own life circumstances and for many reasons, I don’t feel as warmly toward her as the OP does toward Margo. I’m still friendly and professional, but I don’t tell her anything very personal and I respond to her with a lot of canned answers. “Oh that’s too bad” gets used a lot. In a case like comparing cancer with foot pain, I wouldn’t hesitate to “oh that’s too bad” her quickly and then turn all my attention back to the cancer patient.

  17. Lana Kane*

    I don’t think this is a manager issue, to be honest. This is something to address in the moment as an organic part of the conversation. I wouldn’t say something when she does it to someone else, but the next time it happens to OP a gentle “I don’t think those are comparable” could be a place to start. And it could empower others to do that as well.

    I do get the sense that it’s less about her being self-centered and more trying to relate. Maybe it’s because it’s a tendency I’ve noticed in myself and I know that’s where it’s coming from. I’ve worked to curb that and, to be honest, I think I’ll be working on that all my life!

  18. ADHD Gal*

    I will say that at times I’m guilty of doing something similar – I have ADHD and there are times where I will share something when someone is sharing their happenings, and my intention is to let the person know that I understand what they’re experiencing and to be supportive.

    That said, I am very mindful of the examples I may share – I wouldn’t compare a stubbed toe to having a limb removed kind of thing – but at times I do worry that folks feel like I’m making the conversation all about me when in my head that is not my intention at all.

    The advice to call her on her comments – “mild covid is not the same as her father passing away” type statements – is spot on. I hope that she can find other ways to be supportive.

    1. Brain sparkles*

      Ditto. I have ADHD and do this, and it’s often only after I’ve launched into a ‘oh I can have this related experience so can empathise’ story that I realise I’ve gone and done it again.

      I also agree that pointing it out – either in the moment or at another time – is appropriate. I think Margo’s response will be telling as to her motivation.

  19. EA*

    I think this sort of issue needs to be addressed in the moment, not in a conversation after the fact. I don’t think it’s rude to say (of course not in the mean tone), “hmmm, that’s pretty different, and it actually makes me feel worse / like you’re minimizing the issue when you try to compare those two things.” If she’s actually well meaning, then she’ll want to know it doesn’t make you feel good.

    It can also be useful to just tell people what you want to hear. It’s a different situation, but it’s worked for me because my husband is one of those people who constantly proposes a solution when you complain about a problem – and sometimes I just want to vent and have someone say, “oh, that sucks” without telling me what to do. The best way to accomplish that with my husband has been to say, “I just really need to vent right now and have someone hear me out, without proposing solutions yet.” Sometimes he’ll even ask me if it’s a solutions time or just a listening time now. It’s not exactly the same situation, but maybe you could adapt it to help Margo and others in the group understand what sort of reaction you want.

    Finally, is this a group chat? There are some people who are just not great listeners, and can also come across awkwardly on chat. You might consider just backing away from sharing more serious stuff with this particular group and sticking to more casual topics.

    1. Productivity Pigeon*

      I do think it should be addressed when there are no other people present though, otherwise it would be way to awkward and embarrassing to Margo.

      1. allathian*

        The first time, yes. If it happens again, the kid gloves can come off. Intentional or not, I find Margo’s behavior obnoxious. I’d give her my best if looks could kill stare if I heard her comparing the death of my parent to the serious illness of one of her relatives who ultimately recovered.

        I get the impulse to show empathy by sharing a similar experience, I’ve done it often enough here. But when I do that, I always try to bring the point back to the OP’s story. The problem isn’t that Margo’s sharing a vaguely similar story, it’s that she isn’t returning the focus to whatever story the original speaker shared.

      2. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

        Margo’s feelings need to be protected, but no one else’s? She will live through feeling awkward.

        1. zillah*

          i don’t think that’s what’s being said – pulling margo aside to address this is trying to protect other people’s feelings by stopping the behavior.

  20. toolegittoresign*

    Former Margo here. I thought pointing out my own difficulties was a way of expressing empathy and making the person feel less alone. I didn’t realize how it came off until a friend asked me outright if I was comparing my situation to theirs. It was a very rude awakening. I now make sure I do not bring anything back to myself when expressing empathy. I have learned that “I am so sorry to hear that” is a full sentence and I don’t have to explain why I can empathize.

    Say something to her. Don’t worry about hurting her feelings because there’s no nice way to find out you’ve been being an insensitive ass with good intentions. I wish someone had said something to me sooner.

    1. Emmet Dash*

      I’ve gone hard in that direction, too. Unfortunately it backfires when people get angry at me for staying quiet and not seeming to care what’s happening to them.

  21. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

    Margo seems like someone who might benefit from a basic introduction to ring theory.

    1. Wayward Sun*

      Ring theory is powerful but rough. Since learning it I’ve lost friendships because my life is going better than most of my friends’, which relegates me to the permanent listener position. It turns out eventually people drift away when every conversation is one sided.

      1. basically functional*

        Ring theory doesn’t mean you can never complain about anything if your life is going better than the person’s you’re talking to. It just means you shouldn’t complain about a particular thing to someone who is closer to that particular thing and suffering more from it. So like, if my friend’s parent is sick, I wouldn’t expect support from them on that particular issue because they are probably way more upset about it than I am. But I could still complain to them about my own sick parent, or my mean boss, or whatever.

  22. Hawk*

    This is not an armchair diagnosis, but I do want to say that this is a way that I as a neurodivergent person try to say that I’m empathizing with a situation. It’s not great (as I know it comes across as one-upping at times) and I wish I knew how to express I’m empathizing with a situation better. I grew up with a parent that would do it in a one-upping way, and that is the only way I was raised. It’s similar to the “sharing a story with my own experiences to show I understand your experiences” tactic. But just in case there are other neurodivergent folks out there seeing this, I see you.

    1. A Person*

      I think there’s actually a lot of great advice in these threads about how you can mention a related experience but then bring it back to their experience so it doesn’t feel derailing or one-upping! The most important thing is to conversationally give them an opening to keep going if they want to or ask you about your experience if they are interested rather than launching into a long monologue that doesn’t give them that option.

      Stealing from above:
      A: My dad passed away from COVID
      B: Oh no, I’m so sorry to hear about your dad. What a difficult time – I know when my great-aunt died last year there was so much to sort out, and all when you least feel like doing it. Do you know when the funeral will be yet? (or at work if appropriate something like “Do you need
      me to take on X meeting?” or “Are you taking any time off?” – literally any question)
      A (option 1, wants to talk): “Yes, it’s in October and it’s such a pain…”
      A (option 2, would rather hear about you): “Yes, in October – what was the hardest thing about the funeral for your great-aunt?”

      1. sarah*

        Honestly I wouldn’t do that. I would hear that very differently than I think you probably mean it. When someone is freshly grieving a parent in a lot of cases the issue is the loss of the person, not the paperwork/estate sorting. Just say you’re sorry to hear about their dad and then stop.

  23. Same thing happened to me!*

    I used to be a Margo, as my socially awkward way of showing empathy while not having a formula for how to do it right. I know better now, but it took a very long time for me to become aware of it because no-one ever corrected me. But this can be tricky to navigate if you think Margo wants to be comforting but does it very badly. It would probably be devastating to her to realize just how self-centered and un-empathetic this makes her look and how exasperating it is. What would be a kind way to tell her that wouldn’t be utterly crushing ?

    1. H.Regalis*

      I think the scripts Alison provided are pretty good. There are certainly ways LW can avoid being needlessly cruel, but LW can’t control how Margo is going to feel.

  24. TotesMaGoats*

    Story of my life.
    1. Had a former friend who had a story for every one you had. His day was ALWAYS worse. His boss was ALWAYS worse. It was always “but wait”. One of the many reasons that I’m glad we don’t see him anymore.
    2. Have a colleague who KNOWS everything and been through everything. I’ve stopped sharing any stories that in anyway indicate that I have questions about next steps or uncertainties. Only positive, generic things. I definitely don’t share anything medical anymore.

    Do I know that there are some people who think this is empathizing? Yes. Could this be a neurodivergent thing? Maybe. Not my wheelhouse to say. Do some people just do anything to center themselves? Yep.

    1. The Rural Juror*

      I recently spent a whole day with a person who I generally avoid for reason #1. I was invited to a small day trip and didn’t know they were as well. It’s so exhausting to be around someone like that. In all honesty, I would have declined the invitation if I had known.

      This behavior is very likely affecting Margo’s relationship with colleagues. I’m sure others feel similar to the LW.

  25. Landry*

    I think Margo is trying to relate emotions. For example, the car situation — to Margo, the stress and financial blow of the tire replacement probably FELT the same to her as LW needing a new vehicle or major repair. Her love and support for her nephew probably FEELS the same to her as a parent with a child, despite the distance. Yes, she is being inarticulate about it, but I don’t think it calls for minimizing her emotions.

    1. Meep*

      To make it about me, with an antidote – I tend to agree with this. I have a couple family members like that. My wedding ring has some stones that glow in UV light. My aunt decided to bring up her glow-in-the-dark bag of Reese’s she got for Halloween to be relatable when I was showing it to a family member one Thanksgiving. It was so completely unrelatable that it was baffling and I didn’t know how to respond, but in her mind, she was trying to find a commonality – as annoying as it was.

  26. DefinitiveAnn*

    My husband did this and I mostly blew it off when he did it on the phone when I was in the middle of a gall bladder attack. I responded (because it was my husband) “I’m not going to get into a competition of ‘whose pain is worse’ right now. I’ll talk to you tomorrow.”

    He was gobsmacked. Had no idea that’s how he was coming off.

  27. Retired at last*

    It could well just be social awkwardness – as a lifelong socially awkward person, I know I’ve done this more than once (though not, I sincerely hope, on a regular basis). It is an attempt to express empathy (and I generally realize about 15 minutes later that it probably landed very wrong). If someone were to take me aside and point out such a misstep I would (a) be horribly embarrassed and avoid all human contact for days and (b) be annoyed both at myself and the person because of course I already know perfectly well that it was a misstep. But I would probably react better to that coming from a manager or other senior person (taking it as something I need to work on) than from a peer (which would land as unnecessary criticism).

    I have also done it from the other side – many years ago, when a senior colleague expressed sympathy on my mother’s terminal illness (she died a few days later at age 49), 24 year old me replied “thanks, but that’s not my biggest problem today” and went on to vent about some annoying, but perfectly normal, accounting problem. I’m sure the poor man was totally shocked, but it wasn’t that I wasn’t grieving, I just didn’t know how to respond. Margo may well be in the same boat – feeling sympathy but not knowing how to express it.

  28. Is Butter A Carb?*

    At the same time, LW doesn’t seem like they come from a nice team. The comment about the children and nephew was snotty and sounds like a mommy mean girl club.

    1. fhqwhgads*

      It’s not snotty to point out that the experience of having a nephew who lives very far away from you is a completely different experience than having a child who lives with you. The bit about him being on the other coast was surely intended to stave off “well what if she’s the nephew’s primary caregiver?” which would be a comparable situation. But the reality was not a comparable situation.

      1. Parakeet*

        Presumably it depends on what kid stuff they’re talking about, no? That one wasn’t clear, or clear-cut, to me in the way that the mild COVID vs death one was. I dote on my little nephew who lives far away, and whether I brought him up in a conversation about kids would depend entirely on the context.

    2. Childfree Cat Lady*

      It sounds like they try to avoid discussing their children because it’s not something of interest to everyone or can come across as trying to be exclusive. To me it sounds like an attempt at being considerate. I personally don’t want to hear about my coworkers’ kids.

  29. A*

    I agree it’s probably well intentioned and if you get along otherwise it might be a kindness to tell her

    The ways we have experienced similar stuff DO teach us empathy and these kind of comments can be a way to express it but it’s a delicate needle to thread! I think the key is to send the conversation and follow ups back—“Ouch! Card can be so expensive, when I had to replace my tires last year it was a real headache! Good luck figuring out the next steps, I hope it goes smoothly!” (With friends I would ask if they’ve decided yet whether to replace or repair but with coworkers I probably wouldn’t pry because it might pull information on what they can and can’t afford etc and I try to just let people volunteer personal stuff instead of asking)

    1. Productivity Pigeon*

      Yeah, and to acknowledge that my related situation isn’t an exact parallel to yours.

  30. Dana*

    for my own peace of mind, i’ve decided most of these folks are clueless but mean well. my husband & i lost our son in 2020 and people do this A LOT to us. from dead dogs to sick kids who recovered, i’ve heard all the adjacent situations. it used to infuriate me— now i just realize they truly don’t know what to say. so i just nod and smile and move on. not pithy, but in the long run better for your mental health :)

    1. Respect.*

      That’s a lot of endlessly recycled heartbreak, I’m so deeply sorry. I admire and envy your ability to see it for what it is and protect yourself to some extent!

    3. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

      Oh my god, I’m so sorry. I can only imagine how hard those comparisons hit. I certainly know how you were ending those sentences in your head. Woof. Glad you were able to move past it.

    4. Indolent Libertine*

      Oh my goodness, that’s awful and I am so sorry. Many hugs from an internet stranger.

  31. Artemesia*

    I come from a family where the conversational style is ‘you tell me a story about yourself and I relate to you/empathize by telling a similar story about myself. And if someone who has been brought up like this does it really badly you get Margo. I have had to really struggle to converse by asking questions and empathizing rather than ‘counter story telling’. See I did it again.

    I suspect Margo is ineptly being what she thinks of us concerned and empathetic and is instead infuriating.

  32. Meep*

    I could see how it is easy to brush it off in the moment, but annoying when constantly happening. I hope it is more her attempting to just be relatable and falling flat. What is her age range? Because it is definitely a very young millennial/older Gen Z thing to try to sympathize.

  33. Zona the Great*

    For someone in my life who does this ad nauseum: “We were talking about Sally” and then turn back to Sally.

  34. KL*

    My dad does this all the time, it drives me batty. This, combined with his tendency to exaggerate, sometimes makes me want to scream. Oh, you have a cold? I have the flu (he did not, he was just exhausted). You jogged seven miles today? I ran a half marathon thirty years ago.
    I’ve realized over the years that he’s trying to empathize, and have to remind myself every time he does this. Years ago, I started calling him out in the moment. It’s never outright stopped him, but it has reduced the amount of times he does it, so I’ll take what I can get at this point.

  35. Curiouser and Curiouser*

    This is actually something I worked on in group therapy. Not that I would have compared mild covid to a coworker’s father dying, but when people would bring up something personal or a hardship, I would automatically try to show I related by bringing up a story of my own. It was well intentioned, but, as my therapist would say, my desire to relate actually ended up alienating the person sharing because we are now focused on whatever my story is rather than the original person’s woes.

    I’m in the camp that thinks Margo is well intentioned, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a problem. I think it’s a kindness to point out the weirdness (“well…that’s not really comparable…” or “whoa, why would you say that…”), because it may make her look a little closer at what she’s doing. Or she’ll miss it entirely, but I don’t think it’s likely to have a negative effect.

    1. Tango*

      yeah, as someone who used to do this, too, I agree that it can be well-intentioned – but the effect is indeed that it gives the Margo an “out” from *actually feeling* what the other person said.

      It’s a deflection tactic disguised as empathy.

      And hey, sometimes a tactful deflection is useful at work! Work isn’t always the place where people should be having heavy emotional conversations. But in general, the feeling of actually sitting with and staying with what the other person said is very different from immediately bringing up how you relate.

  36. Trying to Sail Away*

    This absolutely reminds me of this Brene Brown short about empathy vs sympathy: https://youtu.be/1Evwgu369Jw?feature=shared

    I have Margo tendencies myself and I try to harken back to this video when I feel the urge to sympathize vs empathize. Perhaps LW could share the video with the team as a “found this interesting/helpful” and it might jolt Margo into some self-actualization?

  37. Thanks*

    Maybe I’m alone in this, but I don’t think it’s ever appropriate when you’re trying to express empathy to say that you went through it too. When people want empathy, they often aren’t helped by the fact that somebody else went through it. Unless they’re in the space of wanting advice about how to deal with it, I would just emphasize. So whether Margot is well-intentioned or not, I don’t think her responses are appropriate.

    2. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

      If you literally experienced the same kind of thing, then you have a special type of shared experience and you can offer help because you know what the person is going through. (Death being the biggie here that a lot of people don’t know what to say because they haven’t experienced loss.) That’s the whole point of support groups. But most times, it’s not similar enough.

      1. Thanks*

        In my training as a counselor, we learned to be very careful trying to equate experiences, even if they seem really similar. Even if it’s your dad that died and my dad died too, maybe your dad died in a car accident and my dad died at 90 of heart failure with all his family around him. It’s a very very hard to offer empathy Using similar experiences especially in a work situation where you may not know the person that well.

        It’s also true that people share experiences for very different reasons. Sometimes they want empathy, sometimes they want advice, sometimes they just want to vent.

    3. Insulindian Phasmid*

      I mean, just as a data point, I’m absolutely helped by hearing that someone else has been through the same things and I’m not alone. Even if they don’t have any advice. That’s part of empathizing, to me, assuming it’s true.

    4. Lola*

      It can be a good form of offering empathy when done right. I recently lost my father. One of the most caring things I heard was from a friend who shared her experience with losing her aunt in a similar health event, and then she acknowledged that it will be a good while until I start to feel normal again. So she shared a similar (but not equal) situation, then circled back to what I am going through.

    5. Ellis Bell*

      I think people are very different in their responses to this, because it is something that makes me feel less alone when it’s done in a particular way. I agree Margo’s examples are inappropriate, but, sometimes when we are good at showing empathy we forget that other people are bad at it because they are on new ground and only have their own preferences to guide them; I mean what does “just empathise” actually mean?

    1. pamela voorhees*

      The big deal is that people are going to start questioning Margo’s judgement that she thinks those two things are comparable, that they’re not going to want to communicate with her at all because she hurt them when they were vulnerable, or both.

        1. pamela voorhees*

          I agree — LW doesn’t need to do anything if they don’t want to. I was just addressing the “this isn’t a big deal” part. :)

  39. DramaQ*

    This is me. I learned brutally in high school that I was coming across as rude and self centered when in reality I was trying to find the right social script and in my neurospicy brain the best way to connect was to tell a story about myself and show I can relate right? See I understand you! I have feelings too and can understand yours!

    Then I went in reverse and stopped saying anything at all because I didn’t want to come across as rude. Then I found out that is rude too!

    It’s taken a really long time to realize that in most social settings people do not want to hear me talk they want me to listen/make noise and that is it. Especially in a work setting.

    It would be a kindness to say something but don’t do it like they did with me by asking “WTF is wrong with you do you ever stop talking?”

    See I just related to Margo!

    Say something like “I’m sorry that happened but we are focusing on Sally right now”. Turn the attention back to the other person. Eventually she will get the hint and start changing her behavior.

    If you are close enough with her or there is someone else who is it can also be a kindness to point out to her how the conversation is being taken. “Hey I know you are trying to relate to Sally but it is coming across as competition/clueless you might want to tone it down a bit”.

    1. pamela voorhees*

      To add onto this, if Sally (or another else) is really struggling to conceptualize the framework of why this is a bad idea, or what it should be like instead —

      If someone tells you a sad thing, it is a bid for attention (any attempt from one person to another for attention, affirmation, affection, or any other positive connection – not a pejorative, just a normal thing we all do!).

      If you respond with a different, sad thing, it feels to them like you have ignored their bid for attention, and are now bidding for attention yourself.

      We, of course, know that you were genuinely attempting to answer their bid with sympathy (“I get it, because X!”) but that’s why a gentle “We are focusing on Sally right now” is perfect, because it goes back to Sally’s original bid for attention and makes her feel less ignored.

  40. Workerbee*

    I think I had a Margo as a colleague, way back. On just about any topic, she’d respond with a variant of her experience or perspective – but never in a constructive way. It was always about how much more important it was when it happened to her.

    Over time, I realized she was only appearing to pay attention to what I was saying, while instead thinking really hard about what she could say about it the moment she could cut in.

    The single time she didn’t do any of this was when I brought up a topic she had no knowledge of – or interest in.

    The conversation stalled completely. She just blinked at me.

    Me: “Nothing to say on this? No experience? Anything?”
    Her: “No.”

  41. Honestly working on it*

    Is this me? Same number of people in department that gets along well, similar good will, identical problem, hmm.

    If so: Lord help me, I KNOW I HAVE THIS PROBLEM, and I swear I am trying to correct it! It’s extremely difficult when it’s this ingrained.

    It is how my entire kind-but-awkward family (no neurodivergence involved, just oversensitive introverts) has always tried to connect, offer help, and convey understanding and community. It was my normal for decades, and I get re-infused when I visit family.

    I understand now as an adult why it is hurtful, and I am better at catching myself doing it, but getting out of the habit is as hard as trying to get “um” and “like” out of all your speech. Mostly I simply end up talking a lot less, which makes me a little sad, but I’m working on getting used to that too.

    1. pamela voorhees*

      There’s a formula up above someone shared that might be more of a help, because it’s adding on rather than changing your habits cold turkey: Related experience –> expression of sympathy –> turn focus back. Instead of just stopping at your related experience, make sure you add an expression of sympathy for them and then turn it back to them, preferably with a question (that makes it super clear “it’s your turn to talk again.”)

        1. Samwise*

          I guess I’d say, practice saying expressions of sympathy without saying anything about yourself. Even if I’m telling you about my cancer treatments, and then you make a statement about your own cancer treatments, that’s not making a connection, that’s turning the attention to you. Even if that’s not what you intend, that is what it feels like to the other person.

          Maybe if you always put an open-ended question directed back to the other person, you will not leave yourself a cue to add the me-stuff

        2. pamela voorhees*

          Of course! We all have really bad habits. <3 Addressing it is brave and hard. Best of luck!

  42. Black Horse*

    So, my mom does this. She always has. It’s just her way of trying to 1) relate what is happening to her own reality (for herself), and 2) express some sort of empathy and connection to the person telling the story. If you’re up for it, I think it could be a huge kindness to her to say a quick “hey, I know you’re trying to be nice, but when you do that to me it makes me feel ____; I’d much rather you did ___”. Sure, there are jerks in the world that just want to make it about themselves, but at least for my mom, she legit just doesn’t get that it’s a problem, she’s just trying to connect.

  43. Melisande*

    I have one ‘Margo’ in my family and another in one of my social clubs. I find the best way to manage is to pretend they’ve not spoken and refocus on the original person.

    eg
    Jo: “so my car transmission went out on the way to the swimming gala…”
    Margo: “I feel for you, I had a puncture at the market the other month…”
    Me: “oh no Jo, how awful – did you get to the gala OK? And how is the car now….?”

  44. I'm just here for the cats!!*

    I don’t see this as someone who is trying to one up the others or bring the conversation back to themselves. A lot of people (some neurodivergent but not all) do this as a way of relating to the other person. Especially the example about the parents. She’s trying to engage and connect with the others. Unless there were other actions, like she gets angry if the conversation isn’t about her, I don’t see her doing this maliciously.

    If you can be kind, you could take her aside sometime and say that when she makes comments about her nephew, or someone’s pain, it can seem like she is downplaying what they are going through or that she is taking over the conversation. But if you can’t do this kindly please leave it alone. Just realize that this is how she is.

  45. YoungTen*

    Margo, while I know you love your nephew across the country, its quite a different matter from what co-worker John was talking about when He stated his concern for using up his sick leave because his child has the flu again.

  46. Samwise*

    At some point someone is going to say to her, very coldly, (or they may yell at her) What is wrong with you? Your stubbed toe is nothing like CANCER.

    Or, someone will burst into tears when she makes one of these terrible comparisons.

    Already I am sure people in your office dislike her.

    Her intentions don’t matter. Her actions do.

    1. Productivity Pigeon*

      Sure, actions hurt even when intentions are good, but a well-intentioned but clueless person deserve a chance to correct their behavior by someone telling them in a kind, neutral manner.

  47. Fitzie's chew toy*

    Many commentors here are very kind and giving Margo a lot of grace. Not me. I worked with a woman like this for years. Every conversation in the faculty room turned to how much worse her situation was. Two teachers’ children had cancer, but HER daughter had gall bladder trouble. She drove me nuts and the solution was to avoid her. The sad thing was she had a nice husband, nice home, and nice children. We all liked the gall bladder daughter, but no one really liked her.

  48. Georgia Carolyn Mason*

    I agree with others that it would be kind and helpful to bring this up to Margo when 1) it’s just you and she and 2) she says something that sounds like comparison to something in your life particularly.

    Also, and I know I’m bringing it back to myself, but thank you OP for calling out this behavior. I can be a bit of a Margo and your post was a reminder to think more before I speak. I am super awkward, and I often launch into a story that I realize halfway through is the wrong thing to say, boring someone to tears, or both. They are often “me” stories. I need to be more careful about this, particularly at work.

    1. Peanut Hamper*

      Or my mother? Everything is a worst experience competition with her.

      I don’t even talk to her about my life any more. Because if I bring something up that’s not great (whether work or personal), she will immediatley pivot to something in her own life from 30 or 40 years ago that is neither relevant nor helpful to my current situation, although she certainly thinks that it is. But she can’t tell me how it is; she only talks about herself and her experience. She can’t get out of her own bubble.

      As a result, all of our conversations are like first year World Language conversations:

      “It’s warm today.”

      “Yes, it is certainly warm today.”

      “This sandwich is delicious.”

      “Yes, I too, am enjoying of the sandwich.”

      I would like deeper conversations, but it’s just not possible. Everything is about her. I have resigned myself to the fact that our relationship will always just be paper thin, with little or no depth or meaning.

      It was sunny today, by the way. At least there was that.

  50. LingNerd*

    If she’s truly well-intentioned, she will welcome the feedback as long as you do it kindly. I default to telling stories to demonstrate my understanding and empathy. I was well into my 20s before I learned that most people interpret that kind of thing as being self-centered instead of empathetic! I still do it if I’m with someone else who I know/sense is neurodivergent, but have learned other strategies. My favorite for more serious situations is to offer a (non-religious) blessing: “I wish you as many good days as it’s possible to have under the circumstances” or “I hope you’ll be able to find a few things that bring you peace and comfort” or something else like that

  51. Raida*

    If she’s well-intentioned then this is her *showing* she empathises by sharing the closest thing she can.

    You can talk to her about how it *actually* lands.

    And watch her be horrified. And then tell you about a time…
    But she will be horrified. And you can suggest she practises taking a breathe before sharing her experience, and frame a question instead of a “i know…” anecdote. Which, to be clear, could then sound nosy. Fun!
    If she’s *offended* then you’ll have an indicator she’s self centred instead of sharing.

  52. Leslie*

    I would let this go. I know a few people who are like this and I have made a mental game show out of it. “let’s see how Cordelia will react to the news that a tree fell on my roof this morning! ” “oh a twig slapped her in the face once, the horror!” It doesn’t minimize what people are experiencing just because your coworker always has to compare and comment.

  53. shouldbeworkingrightnow*

    This is something AuDHD people often do. It’s their way of relating and is not in any sense intended as a one-mashup. So… her behavior could be just how she empathizes. ‍♀️

  54. Purple Tiger*

    I think the key to the “similar story as empathy” technique is to follow it up with a question that clearly indicates that you consider the other person’s situation the primary focus of the conversation, so it’s like:

    Them: telling you about their husband’s serious medical problems
    You: Oh my child was hospitalized last year and I still remember how scary it was. How are you holding up emotionally? Can I bring you dinner next week?

  55. No aurora*

    As an autistic person, I relate to Margo a lot.
    If you can, try to pull her aside and let her know how it’s actually landing and tell her a simple “I’m sorry to hear that” brings her intended message across. If she’s similarly oblivious as I am, it’d be a kindness to let her know and not embarrass her in front of everyone.
    If that won’t work though, then you can (and should) tell her off in the moment

  56. I Have RBF*

    I would be willing to bet that Margo is from a particular demographic who was taught that we had to use personal examples to demonstrate empathy. Instead of saying “Oh, that sounds painful.”, we were taught to say “Oh, my sympathies on broken foot, I stubbed my toe the other day, too.” While there is a way to do it that compares like with like, a lot of people don’t do comparisons well, and can come off as insensitive as hell. (I want to say the demographic is midwestern white boomer women, but I’m not sure that’s accurate.)

    I was in that cohort, the “show it, don’t just say it” school of empathy, complete with emphasis on “I” messages and all that. The habit completely ignores the fact that some stuff simply has no comparison, and shouldn’t be compared.

    People who have that habit don’t even see that their comparisons as sympathy noises come off as self centered and out of touch. It takes getting pushback and deliberate pointing out of the problem to even realize how it comes off.

    Nowadays, if I don’t have a very, very closely related experience, I just say “Oh, ugh. My sympathies. It must be hard/painful/inconvenient/gut wrenching/etc.” Because if it didn’t exactly happen to me too, I don’t need to bring my experiences into it.

    To the LW, I’m so sorry you have to deal with this. If there’s someone she trusts who can take her aside and explain that her attempts at demonstrating empathy are failing badly, it might help. But self awareness is not common, and it might not work.

    1. londonedit*

      I think you can do the stubbed toe thing, but only if you frame it as ‘Oh no! Your poor foot! That must be so painful – I stubbed my toe the other day and I felt like I couldn’t walk properly all morning, let alone breaking your actual foot! Do you know how long you’ll have to keep the boot on for?’ Basically, yes, you can use an example from your own life to show that you’re empathising, but don’t then make it all about you. Turn it straight back to the other person and ask them a question about how they’re getting on, or whatever.

  57. econobiker*

    The “Topper” character from the cartoon strip Dilbert.

    My late ex-wife. Once I had exited that relationship and had a more down to earth spouse, we (the new couple), noticed this about my ex-wife, no matter how personal the subject. My ex-wife always had a bigger and sadder story to tell.

  58. Kella*

    Interestingly, I seem to be in the minority in thinking that Margo *isn’t* so well-intentioned here.

    To be clear: I am neurodivergent. Basically, all my friends are too. We all relate to each other with stories of our own lives on a regular basis, we all know that this is a tool we’re using to connect with one another. It’s a non-issue in my communities, even when wielded awkwardly.

    However, if someone tells me, “I know just how you feel” followed by a description of something that doesn’t even slightly resemble what I’m going through, I’m going to assume that either a. they allowed their discomfort with witnessing my suffering compell them to rush to find something vaguely relevant to appear to be contributing to the conversation rather than thinking about my comfort b. They are, whether intentionally or no, communicating to me how they think I *should* feel about what I’ve gone through, and it’s minimizing or c. They genuinely have thought so little about the experience of being another person that they actually think the two things are comparable. None of those are traits that I particularly want to be around more than absolutely necessary.

  59. tired beau*

    One of my closest friends does this (several actually used to, but I’ve been able to discuss it with all but this one). It just doesn’t make sense to them that it’s not an actual contribution to the conversation, but rather completely distracts from the actual topic and tends to fizzle out convos because it’s hard to go back to OG topic by the time they get done.

    If you feel comfortable enough to engage with it head on, I suggest that. I sat one of my friends down and I told them, plainly, I *really* enjoy our friendship but it’s impossible for me to feel connected with them when the only. Thing. They talk about. Is themselves. It really helped them understand my frustrations and they were able to start having conversations beyond that, but it doesn’t always work for everyone. It just doesn’t make sense to them when that’s the way they’re used to communicating.

  60. HighSchoolPsych*

    I’ve seen a lot of comments focusing on Margo’s hypothetical intentions, but I want to point out that good intentions do not erase the harm. When my dad died and a classmate compared how i felt about his death to how she felt about her fathers surgery (routine and outpatient) that same week, followed by several similar comments over the following weeks, it was deeply painful. 20 years later, I still recall how minimized I felt in the situation and how much I resented having to coddle her while my world had turned inside-out. It took me losing my temper and snapping at her (something I found deeply uncomfortable) to finally have some mutual friends start running interference.

    For the record, I am also neurodivergent, as was this classmate. This is not solely a neurotypical vs. neurodivergent difference. It’s also a pattern I engage in myself, sharing a similar experience to relate. But when you are this far off the mark, it doesn’t work. You cannot consistently compare terrible situations to objectively less severe situations and expect that to go well.

  61. Lurker*

    This is something I’ve had a bad habit of doing in the past. For me, it wasn’t an attempt to one up the other person but an awkward attempt to connect. This sounds very similar to that-as Alison and other commenters have said, if you organically see a chance to kindly point out how it comes across to others she’d probably appreciate that.

  62. C*

    Margo is possibly the most well-intentioned person I’ve ever met

    Is she really? Or is she fooling you?

    If she’s genuinely well-intentioned, then you ought to tell her directly how she sounds. But if she’s not, then she already has some idea.

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