update: I walked in on employees having sex — and I think there’s a sex club in my office

Remember the letter-writer in April who walked in two employees having sex and then found evidence of an office sex club? (Is it even reasonable to write that so matter-of-factly? It doesn’t feel like it.) Here’s the update you’ve probably been waiting for.

I first want to defend something I said in my original letter against some of the comments of your posters. I said originally that at my job we had a great work culture and that basically the team I led worked well together and got along. It seems some of the commenters took exception to this because of what turned out to be going on behind the scenes. Just because this was going on, doesn’t make what I said any less true. We do get along great. We are all high performers. So I take exception to some of the comments that suggested this was untrue or that I was being naïve.

Anyway, I did take your advice and go to my manager. Suffice it to say it was kind of awkward. Thankfully the timeline on when I found out to when I told him never came up, so he wasn’t aware that I took so long to tell him. Anyway, he told me he had heard some whispers of other things like this from other people – not necessarily catching people in “the act” but just some weird instances going on. For example, a few people reported that it looked like their cars had been broken into, but nothing had been stolen. The reason they noticed something was because their seats had been pushed all the way forward (perhaps some duck members scoring more points?). He also mentioned that another coworker of ours reported that on one of the three slots in the tampon dispenser in the ladies room had never worked and had been labeled “out of order” (and had been so ever since I can remember). She just happened to let her curiosity get the best of her one day and turned the knob and what came out? A condom. Weird, I know. I have no idea who loads those things, if it’s the maintenance workers or if we have someone in the office that’s responsible for it or if it’s serviced by a third party company. That’s the one I thought was really strange. Perhaps this is where the duck club comes to get their protection – or maybe I’m just reading too much into that one.

Anyway, we scheduled a meeting with my boss’s boss for the next day (he’s one of the top guys in the company) and that was also awkward. I told him what I encountered and what my suspicions were for the duck club. He asked me if I had any proof aside from catching the two employees in the act and the sheet on my employees desk that I came across that there was a duck club and I said no, but I thought it was easy to connect the dots. He played this off as basically “people will do what they want to” and “kids will be kids.” He acted like I was trying to stir up trouble by making leaps to things that didn’t exist and that I should write it off as a one time event and not “blow it out of proportion.” Also, he kinda chuckled when I called it a “duck club” and laughed when I said I had heard people quacking at each other. So when the meeting was over and my boss and I left his office, he said “You guys have a good day, quack quack.” Now I don’t know if he was doing that to mock me and my take on the whole situation, or if that was perhaps a subtle way of him saying, “Yes, I know about the club, and not only am I aware of it, I also am a member” (but perhaps that’s me reading too much into it once again).

My manager and I were kind of dumbfounded when we left his supervisor’s office by the way he responded. My manager was also surprised that his supervisor suggested we not address the situation at all. But we both decided that taking everything into consideration, we could just roll with this weirdness to work where we do. We are very nicely paid with great benefits and generous vacation time. We also love what we do and love our team (even the “quacks” lol). I am fine to let this pass and never speak of it again, and can live with it knowing that nothing will be done about it and I won’t be in trouble for not doing anything now that I have done my part in reporting it. I know that may sound weird, but I’d rather stay here and work because it actually is a relief knowing that, even though the decision of the higher-ups was to not address it, that I won’t at least be held responsible if anything else ever comes with it. I do have proof that I reported it because my manager would back me if anything ever came of this news.

I am also happy to say that I can now speak to the two I caught in the act without blushing now and we’ve moved on, even though nothing was ever said verbally about it.

Me again. I might be even more apoplectic over your boss’s boss’s reaction than I am over the existence of this club itself.  I guess in an environment that could hatch (ha!) this club to begin with, it might not be surprising that the dude at the top is unconcerned, but I do want you to know for norming purposes that this is Not At All Normal.

I will never hear a quack the same way again.

{ 446 comments… read them below }

    1. The IT Manager

      Wow! I thought I couldn’t be disappointed by the update, but I am.

      1000% not normal. At least the LW suffered some qualms about this situation while the big boss quacked it off.

      1. Steve G

        I’m disappointed that the OP’s manager didn’t react with disdain and that the OP is having to rationalize this and accept it. I want to say “look for another job,” but seeing how difficult the job market is now myself, I know you can’t throw that phrase around lightly anymore.

        This still begs the question, if the coworkers can’t keep their hands off of each-other, why can’t they meet up outside of work?

        Also, isn’t this a good basis for a sexual harassment lawsuit?

        1. Zillah

          But I don’t think we’ve heard anything that points to anyone being harassed. They don’t seem to be pressuring others to join or even really talking about it when others are around to hear. There are a million other things wrong with this, but I’m not sure sexual harassment is on that list.

          1. AnonyGoose

            I don’t know–I’d feel pretty harassed if I was in constant danger of walking in on other people having sex.

        2. Blinged Out Stapler

          seeing how difficult the job market is now myself, I know you can’t throw that phrase around lightly anymore.

          No one’s been able to throw that phrase around lightly since at the very least 2008. Did you think all the people talking about the market all these years were just a bunch of whiners without any gumption until it happened to you?

          1. CheeryO

            Oh come on, that’s pretty harsh. I never would have accused anyone of being a whiner or lacking gumption prior to my job search in 2014, but you don’t get the full picture until you’ve been through it yourself.

    2. Narise

      This is a perfect environment for a sexual harassment lawsuit. Wait until someone is promoted and now supervises those they had sex with at work. Wait until two have a fight or a work disagreement and see how fast sexual harassment comes up.

    1. Anon Commentator

      Does anyone else think the story and it’s update are a little quackers???

      If the update wasn’t so odd – the OP and manager deciding to stay because the benefits are good – and the Sr Mgr not believing their report – and even worse, sending them on their way with a quack??
      I’d probably still think “it is weird, but weird things happen.”

      I’m thinking our legs gave been pulled, and maybe even that someone is writing their first novel on company time.

      Yes, we DID have fun snorting coffee through our noses the day OP first posted. Today, I think we were the beneficiaries of some clever fiction.

      1. TrainerGirl

        I temped in college for a Fortune 500 company, and I assure you this type of stuff goes on. There was no duck club where I worked, but the drama was just as bad: a group of guys in customer service made a bet to see how many women in the department they could sleep with (the winner got $500); one manager, who was having an affair with a supervisor, got upset that she broke it off, so he had the car he’d bought for her repossessed in the building parking lot. Another manager was having a fling with two different supervisors, one married and one with a boyfriend, and the boyfriend came to the office and beat the manager up. A third manager was dating a supervisor, and came back married after a long weekend, to the surprise of the supervisor. I was only 19 at the time and thought that’s what the corporate world was like everywhere. No drama anyplace I’ve worked since has come close to the level of that place.

        1. AcademicAnon

          Yeah, I know someone who worked for a Fortune 100 company, and multiple coworkers of theirs put a strip club visit on the expense report (and I’m not talking just once either). I’m not at all surprised at the existence of this.

      2. Blinged Out Stapler

        We just had a post about a stealth shitter. Someone was putting magic curses on their coworkers a while back. We’re going to call fiction now?

        1. Anonymous for this

          I worked at a blood bank, and we had people having sex in the buses. I was in grocery retail and worked food service at a baseball stadium and I know people who straight up bragged that they had sex in various places at work. I’m not gonna say nothing surprises me, but I certainly don’t disbelieve it.

          1. Lilith

            I knew someone who worked in a fancy restaurant, and I remember her telling me about when she had sex with her (married to someone else) boss on one of the restaurant tables.

      3. anon for this

        I worked in a team in a large corporate where the following occurred:

        A call centre staff was given a temporary assignment to be a short term admin assistant. She slept with a boss two levels above hers, and secured her permanent move… she then climbed the ladder with similar skills… to the point where she was interviewed by the boss she was sleeping with for a promotion, and changed in his office before it into a mini skirt.

        That was the same office where there were three (other) women sleeping with the one man, they all found out about each other on the same day (in a five woman office, about 100men).

        I’d believe the quacker story.

      4. CAinUK

        I worked in the restaurant industry through college, so I could believe MOST of this stuff. People hooked up on-site a lot, and I could 100% see a bunch of 19-21 year-olds creating a duck club in that workplace (and then doing things like breaking into club members’ cars for sex as a prank/points score). And management knew about the hooking up and did nothing, and co-workers knew and shrugged it off. So all of this doesn’t raise my eyebrows, and I could suspend disbelief EXCEPT for two things:

        So I was willing to suspend disbelief, except for two things:

        1. Breaking into random co-workers’ cars (who were not in the club) is really far-fetched. Why be discreet about a duck club and then do this? It is going to freak non-club members out and so I can’t see how this is true (either doing it, or that people weren’t more concerned their car was unlocked and seats were moved).

        2. I call absolute shenanigans on the tampon dispenser. Even IF it somehow slipped by maintenance, and even IF I believed the OP suddenly just got curious for no apparent reason, how on earth would condoms fit into tampon dispensers and functionally be dispersed?

        Fiction.

      5. Cleopatra Jones

        When I was in the military during basic training, people were caught having sex behind the dumpsters. Not once but multiple times-so that it became a rule that no one could go to the dumpsters unsupervised.

  1. Sheepla

    I’ve been anxiously awaiting this update and this is so not what I expected. Wow. Just wow. I mean….wow.

  2. Stephanie

    Wow. Honestly, I would work on getting the hell out. I agree that this is Not Normal At All. Things seem ok now, but I could see this going south very, very quickly if an employee claims coercion, assault, files a harassment charge, or ends up pregnant or with an STI. I would not want to be around when sh*t hits the (oscillating) fan. Doubly so if this is a government agency or nonprofit where there’s taxpayer or donor accountability.

      1. Apollo Warbucks

        When I was 16 and working in fast food and retail there was a big big hook up culture but even at that age we kept it off the clock and for outside work.

    1. neverjaunty

      Yes. And OP, you are indeed naive if you think there is no way you could ever be held responsible for this. Head Supervisor could simply deny anything and who are they going to believe, big boss or you? Especially if your manager is under the gun also, or is given enormous pressure NOT to back you up?

      1. Well

        This, for real. At absolute best, your boss’s boss has demonstrated that he’s grossly negligent of his duties; at worse, he’s complicit in something that’s both unethical and unprofessional. Either way, you need to start figuring out how to escape this situation before you get (a) fired for trying to blow the whistle on this, (b) caught up in some kind of FBI sting (and if you think this isn’t possible, you aren’t thinking clearly — this setup is one “entrepreneurial” spirit away from being a prostitution ring) or (c) get laid off when the company crumbles from being unable to attract real professionals.

      2. Not So Sunny

        I simply cannot believe that a manager at any level (not to mention the “club” members) could think this type of behavior could be condoned. LW is complicit in maintaing a hostile work environment where a huge lawsuit could be just around the corner. (Sorry, I originally posted my reply in the wrong nest)

        1. Zillah

          It’s not clear to me that this is a hostile work environment, though. I can see it turning into one, which is one of many reasons this club is a terrible idea, but saying that the LW is complicit in maintaining a hostile work environment is operating under the assumption that one already exists… which isn’t necessarily a fair assumption. No one has complained to her about the club, and she hasn’t witnessed anything to indicate that everyone participating isn’t doing so quite happily or that anyone who doesn’t want to participate is being pressured to.

          I’m not saying that this is a good idea – far, far, far from it. But saying that this is already a hostile work environment? We don’t have any indication that that’s the case, IMO.

          1. Ask a Manager Post author

            I agree. Of course, one of the (many) problems with this kind of thing is that you can think everyone is fine with it and then have it turn out that they weren’t and that they did feel harassed. But we don’t know if that’s the case.

            1. Student

              What about the whole walking-in-on-sex-at-work? Or the apparent breaking-into-other-employee’s-cars-for-sex? That last one is likely a plain old crime of breaking and entering or trespassing or something. Sure, maybe once it doesn’t qualify, but if you find out this is a regular thing? If they break into MULTIPLE strangers’ cars?

          2. AcademicAnon

            But the LW could be complicit in breaking & entering if someone whose vehicles were broken into ever files a report. Being complicit in a crime is enough to make any sane and reasonable manager break out in hives.

            1. fposte

              No, she really couldn’t. Not firing people for having sex in the office isn’t making her complicit for any subsequent crimes people commit, whether it’s breaking into cars or embezzling from the company.

    2. Traveler

      Even if you won’t be held personally responsible for something legally speaking – if other people in your field find out that this is something you all do (and I imagine they will when the duck club members branch on and out), are you not worried about what sort of black ball rep you could potentially have for working there ?

      1. grasshopper

        That is a very good point. If this company is any kind of government or public agency or donor-funded, this kind of information would cause a scandal that could ruin careers. If it is a private company, something like this showing up on glassdoor or even just rumors in professional networks could be enough to hurt the OP’s reputation in finding another job.

        1. Anon.

          +1,000

          Wow. Yeah, I would get out of these for this reason. I don’t mean to be histrionic, but if this got out, any news org would love this salacious story, or would certainly be part of the networking rumor mill. By working there it does indicate a complicity, even though you’ve done all you can to remedy the situation. Your bosses’ boss’ behavior is so creepy about the whole thing.

        2. Noobtastic

          Yeah. I can just see the future interviews.

          A) – You get out early. “Why did you leave your last company?” “I was not happy with the culture there.”

          B) – You get out after the story broke. “Why did you leave… You worked WHERE? Ummm, bye bye.”

    3. eplawyer

      Not to mention that some of these people might be married. Does the LW want to be called into court to testify in a divorce proceeding? In some states, adultery is still a crime. Other states have alienation of affectation statutes and I cna see a creative lawyer going after the company who created the environment where casual sex goes on in the work place. Big Boss needs to think about the company liability, not the “fun” aspect of this.

    4. Elizabeth West

      Exactly, and not to even mention the business about stuff going on with people’s cars. I’d call the cops if I thought someone broke into my car, even if they didn’t take anything.

      1. Rose

        I’d extra extra call the cops if I thought someone broke into my car to HAVE SEX IN IT. Ewwwwwww

    5. INTP

      Especially if the boss’s boss is involved. When the Big Boss quacks at you, you have to sleep with him or risk retaliation (which seems likely from someone so unprofessional). In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s encouraging this because it gives him sexual access to the younger employees. I also wouldn’t be surprised if some employees are already having sex that they aren’t entirely into because this sort of thing just tends to get out of control. This is not good or safe for the employees even if it seems like they’re all having fun.

      1. Kelly

        In the Hong Kong prostitution life there is a “Duck Club” and a “duck” is a male prostitute that services women.

    6. yeah, that

      So.. This is actually something I wonder about (from a sheerly theoretical standpoint): If an employee gets pregnant at work, is her maternity care covered by worker’s comp?

      1. FieryCrayonElement

        Pretty sure it won’t be, because the pregnancy isn’t a direct result of said employee’s expected duties

  3. Friday

    This was handled terribly all around. I definitely would’ve spoken to the employees who were caught in the act because that’s just beyond professional/normal. This situation and the way it was handled is truly bizarre.

    1. Stranger than fiction

      Exactly the bif boss asked for proof of the club but the two caught in the act wer still not disciplined?!? WTD

      1. Noobtastic

        Exactly! OK, I can see him wanting more proof of the club before doing anything based on suspicions alone, but the OP walked in on two employees having sex in the copy room, and THAT was just swept away?

        Nope.

      1. Aunt Vixen

        The whole thing. The original letter was plausible, but the update doubles down in a way that to me reads like the “OMG I was so mortified when my boyfriend’s parents caught us making out!!!1!” column in Seventeen magazine.

        1. Nina

          Sadly, I can see the head boss brushing off the sex thing as “kids will be kids”, but I do find it very odd that breaking into someone’s car doesn’t warrant some suspicion from him. I’m wondering if he’s involved with the club.

            1. Noobtastic

              Of course he’s involved. Someone is supplying the condoms in the tampon machine, and instructing the janitorial staff to stock them.

        2. some1

          Honestly, the original letter had me wondering. I have actually heard of people doing that at their work, but the LW thinking she couldn’t do anything about it because the couple was on their lunch break, along with they *have to* lock the printer room which just happens to have a couch in it…?

          1. Laurel Gray

            This. When the original letter was posted I thought it was such a farce that practically an entire office would have no scruples about such outrageous activity.

          2. Mints

            It’s weird because the worst parts of the story I can believe – rampant casual sex and its gamification. Like that’s what I find really horrible, and I can believe that’s happening. I’ve seen enough true stories of that, that it seems possible.

            But the details, like the locked room with the couch you mention, make it seem bizaree. The name, the quacking. The big boss’ brushing it off. The freely available condoms. Which puts my brain in a weird place because I’m like, “Well if they’re having sex on site, why does it matter what the mascot is?”

            The story is so weird.

            If it is true, I hope the OP is working on leaving. If the story gets out, I think it’s very likely it would reflect badly on her. “I knew about the club but I never participated” sounds like a cop out a club member would use.

    1. Ask a Manager Post author

      I’ll be honest — it crossed my mind too, largely because of the stuff about the boss’s boss’s reaction and the quack as they left, which felt a tiny bit Penthouse Letters to me.

      OP, no offense — it’s just so completely not how this should be playing out.

      1. Kala

        The original letter was published in April — it wasn’t received on April 1st, was it?

          1. SanguineAspect

            Though maybe you should have a “crazy fake work story” submission contest for NEXT April 1st, for your readers. Or as one of the open thread topics. :)

            1. Liane

              How is anyone going to win?!?!
              When the Really Happened* Category includes:
              *Supervisor damaging a report’s home by beating on it
              *Someone threatening to use malicious spells on colleagues
              *Poo in plants (& other wrong spots)

              You can’t beat those – & you surely can’t make up anything crazier

              *as much as Alison’s Spidey-sense can tell, anyway

      2. BRR

        I’m not convinced about this situation, maybe it’s exaggerated or completely made up but I enjoyed it for what it was.

      3. Malissa

        I’ve worked in a place where this could totally happen. Including the senior manager being involved in the duck club. Actually at my old job the senior manager would have been the founder of such a club.

        1. Stranger than fiction

          Yes which reminds me I’m dying to know what industry this is?!? I worked at a mortgage co years ago where a lot of people were sleeping around including the CEO but as far as i know there was no club!

          1. Malissa

            That’s funny because the place I worked at that had this kind of culture was a big real estate/property management company.

        2. Creag an Tuire

          “I’m not just the President of the Duck Club, I’m also a member! Quack Quack!”

        3. Erin

          Yeah. I’ve been in really, really ridiculous work situations before. Don’t think this is made up at all.

      4. Wakeen's Teapots Ltd.

        Just in case the OP’s first name is Shonda may I take this moment to say:

        Squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. I am your hugest fan!!!

        1. Laurel Gray

          LMFAO aaaaaaah this was hilarious (but I think this would be a farce even for her!)

      5. Kelly O

        Thank goodness I am not the only one thinking we may have gotten “Letters to Penthoused” on this one.

        It is just beyond unbelievable to me. Cannot even fathom how this is actually happening, and I have seen some pretty weird, messed-up stuff in offices.

        1. BeeBee

          Well, I could see the sex club and quacking going on, but the reaction of the head boss is suspect. Especially, if it involved possible car break-ins. I mean, who would want strangers to be having sex in their cars? Ew! For a CEO to brush that off is very weird and odd, so it could all be a ruse.

          1. paintergirl grammie

            I would imagine by “break ins” OP meant they are using cars in the parking lot that are unlocked…so while it would be odd to have seats and things moved around there wouldn’t be justification for calling the police

          2. V.V.

            I am surprised nobody in this whole thread has ever seen the film “The Other Guys” where Will Farrell’s Prius is stolen and used in a hobo sex ring. Twice. (Okay, so the second time they don’t realize it’s his car and offer to let him join in… but we all know what was about to happen.) If I recall correctly, his character was just expected to drop the issue too.

            So many bits of this story seem to be taken from pop culture, but I guess it could be a case of life imitating art.

            What I am actually wondering now is: looking back to when you were recruited, does it now feel like a chapter straight out of John Grisham’s “The Firm”? Did your company lure you in with a too – good – to – be – true benefits package, allow you to enjoy a life beyond your means (the BMW, the ridiculous salary), then trap and drop the duck whistle on you? Is writing to Ask a Manager merely a diversion before you make off with the duck money and spend the rest of your life sailing off the coast of Brazil under the assumed name Mallor D. Merganser?

            Since everyone now seems to think this story is a work of fiction, I hope you will consider something like this suitable for the shocking finale. I really want these nasty quackers to rue the day they imprinted their (bare? iiiieeeuuuw!) downy asses on that couch.

            If you aren’t making it up, I am glad that you were… placated.

      6. Not So Sunny

        I simply cannot believe that a manager at any level (not to mention the “club” members) could think this type of behavior could be condoned. LW is complicit in maintaing a hostile work environment where a huge lawsuit could be just around the corner.

    2. Stephanie

      Same, especially with the Big Boss being so cavalier. But I’m willing to give OP the benefit of the doubt (I’ve had really weird stuff happen at jobs, so…)

    3. KSM

      I am tempted to agree. Between everyone being apparently very casual about people breaking into their cars to move seats, the condom dispenser, and the inappropriate reaction of the higher-up, this seems like it’s past even “truth is stranger than fiction” for believability.

      1. K.

        The cars thing really got me. If I suspect someone broke into my car, I wouldn’t be like “You know, it was the strangest thing … ” and shrug it off. That’s crazy. Even if nothing was taken, if I thought someone broke into my car to have sex in it, I’d be furious – I’d almost be happier if something WERE taken.

        1. Kelly O

          Yeah, I might actually be livid about that. I mean, not to sound “that way” but bodily fluids are nothing to mess around with, and I would not want to have to wonder what might have gotten on my seats. (Never mind having a kid who sits in my car…)

          If I thought someone broke in, you can bet I’d be alerting the police and finding out if we could get a random patrol through now and then.

          1. K.

            Exactly. I don’t need to be exposed to my coworkers’ bodily fluids at all, ever, let alone in the car I paid for that they broke into. Again I say: that’s crazy, and I’d be furious, and would NOT just shrug it off.

        2. LiveAndLetDie

          No one taking the cars seriously as well as “the tampon machine has always been ‘broken’ or dispensed condoms, the whole time I’ve been here,” kind of add up to be suspicious. The cars because… who doesn’t take that seriously? That could lead to police involvement real fast, as all it takes is calling the police instead of going to the company. And the tampons because does this company have a maintenance person at all? Wouldn’t they be reporting/repairing broken machines?

          1. Stephanie

            A broken tampon dispenser isn’t that crazy. I’ve just assumed those things don’t work. The one at my job that advertises “beltless sanitary napkins” probably hasn’t been operational since the 80s.

            Rigging it to dispense condoms does raise an eyebrow.

            1. bridget

              And also doesn’t really seem like a practical solution to any actual problem. Were I a member of duck club, it seems much much easier to just keep some in my purse. The chances of someone digging around in my purse at work and also realizing that they are there for duck club are incredibly slim. It’s not a prison, where we have to hide contraband in loose bricks or whatever.

            2. Avocado

              Right. Broken or empty tampon dispensers are so commonplace that my “wait a minute…” was actually the idea that anyone would be curious enough about a broken one to turn the knob. Like, what would you possibly expect to happen?

              Who even registers the existence of a tampon machine in the bathroom unless they have an unexpected need of a tampon?

              1. Sunshine

                Yeah. That’s where they lost me too. The whole story is ludicrous, of course… but just crazy enough to believe. The follow-up is full of too much “stretch”. I’m betting on fiction.

                Disappointing, since I’ve been dying for an update on this one, like everyone else.

              2. BananaPants

                Where they lost me was on rigging it as a condom dispenser versus – it just took it too far. We have tampon and pad dispensers in the ladies’ rooms at work, and they are kept stocked (and are free – no quarter needed). I figured they were relics from the 70s or 80s at first but they’re the real thing. At one point there were all of 4 or 5 women out of close to 100 employees on my floor and only 2 were younger than 55, so if you found that you needed emergency supplies you’d be SOL without the dispenser.

                In college they kept a large fishbowl full of condoms at the front desk of the student health center and students could walk in and just take as many as they liked. Sounds like something the notional “duck club” should have in the copy room…

              3. CatGet

                You’d be surprised. I’ve heard of people so curious about the world, they literally stuck their thumbs into the doorway just to see for themselves what would happen and how they would feel afterwards (after having been told that it would hurt). Curiosity is a strange thing, and can lead people to do strange things.

            3. Noobtastic

              When I was in college, I found one of those machines in a particular ladies’ room in a particular building, and it WORKED! It dispensed pads for a dime each, although every other dispenser at the campus cost a quarter. Well, I went to the grocery store, checked the price on the same brand of pads, as well as the cheapest brand of pads, divided by the number of pads in a package, and immediately went out and got several rolls of dimes.

              I hit up that ladies room every month, and told my friends about it.

              Soon, that machine was running out, and being used so much, they simply couldn’t get away with taking it down. I don’t know how long it lasted after I left, but it was there the whole time I was.

          2. Sigrid

            Frankly, I assume all tampon dispensers in every bathroom don’t work. I can’t remember looking at a tampon dispenser anywhere and seeing actual tampons in it. I just generally assume they’re relics of the 80s that have never been removed.

        3. Cactus

          I would be massively creeped out and reporting it up the chain of command, checking the windows to the parking lot whenever possible, locking my doors, possibly installing some sort of big car alarm thing…

          1. Dynamic Beige

            At OldJob, one of my coworkers had a minivan that was stolen twice out of the company lot. Both times it was found in a parking lot (the first time at a hotel, if memory serves). The cops told him that it was a thing with some car theft gang to steal a minivan, load it up with people, drive to the place where the Real Cars Worth Stealing were, everyone jumps out of the minivan and they all steal whatever cars they came for, leaving the minivan behind.

            There’s nothing like driving a beater for people to show absolutely no interest in your car.

            1. Anna

              If only that were the case. The only time I’ve ever had a car stolen was my beat-up, mildew-having, rust-spot having 19 year old Honda Civic hatch back.

              Even when it was cute and new, nobody stole it.

      2. AnonAnalyst

        I know, I think I could get past one of these things, but all of them together make it difficult for me to suspend disbelief. I’m generally pretty willing to believe whatever letter writers to AAM describe, but is is a stretch.

    4. kozinskey

      Agreed. While I’m willing to suspend my disbelief for terrible bosses and weird coworker behavior, I have a really hard time believing anyone would want to stay in that environment knowing how fast that office could go south / everything in & around the office has probably been used for duck-related activities at some point.

    5. Juli G.

      I’m on the fence. This update is so… eh. I would expect a fake story to end in a more exciting fashion. And something about the way OP doubles down about what a functional company this is instead of prepping her resume…

      I could go either way on this.

    6. Ad Astra

      I always did sort of doubt the club. When the first letter was published, I figured the OP was coming to an incorrect, but still honest, conclusion. Now I’m wondering if part or all of this story is made up. I guess we’ll never know.

    7. puddin

      Anyone else think maaaaybe the OP is the one who got caught on the couch?

      Side note…
      The boss is in on it theory.
      If he were, there are two likely reactions:
      1. Act shocked and appalled and bluster about doing something immediately. After all, as a boss you really do (should) know this is wrong on just about every level. So now you are caught and you need to extricate yourself without arousing (pun intended) suspicion. In the end, boss leaves club, nothing punitive or educational comes about, the club fades on its own accord, and perhaps the boss takes his name off the ‘roster’ which sends a signal.

      2. What the OP says the boss did. I think this is less likely if he were involved because even a bad boss knows that this is so out of line that it is borderline, if not downright, criminal. So the big boss is entirely stupid, an ego maniac that believes he is ‘untouchable’ because of the value he brings, or on drugs – or all of the above.

    8. Daisy

      I am 100% in the fake camp, and was for the first one. The tone- a weird combination of extreme naiveté, yet so blasé about outlandish sexual behaviour- is very like a lot of mediocre online erotica. The revelation that the big boss may be in on it- GASP! Twist!- is such an obvious end-of-chapter-2 cliffhanger. Chapter 3- “I get inducted into the club”.

    9. shellbell

      I called shenanigans at the part about the tampon dispenser. That put me over the edge for some reason.

      1. Anon Commentator

        Those little details – the tampon dispenser, the car seats being moved up – just wayyyy too specific yet small details that don’t fit the larger picture.

        1. zora

          it’s too specific, plus the OP’s reaction to them is so beyond naive! After she says “i’m not that naive, you guys!” … I mean, to bring up the condoms but then not be ‘sure’ that they had anything to do with the club or if it was just random???

    10. Nursey Nurse

      Yes! I gave the benefit of the doubt to the original letter, but the Big Boss’s reaction followed by everyone quacking happily every after pushed it over the top for me. It reads like bad fanfiction.

  4. Ineloquent

    Oh sweet hannah. Now that it’s been formally reported, if someone claimed a persistant environment of sexual harrassment based on this club, would the company be liable for knowing and not addressing the problem?

    1. cuppa

      Actually, IIRC, if the manager is participating, the company is liable, and depending on what state this is in, now that the supervisors know they could be personally liable as well.

  5. Ad Astra

    I’m not sure why I find this update so unsatisfying, but I’m still glad we got one.

    1. NickelandDime

      Because of how the OP started the letter with the defensive tone about their work culture and the end result – the big boss is probably in on it, and the OP seems to be fine working in this very dysfunctional environment.

  6. Cambridge Comma

    Did you at least manage to dispose of the copy room couch, or get rid of the lock on its door?

      1. Sara

        If a third party had sex in my car, I would just lose it. I don’t even know what losing it would look like in this context, I just know something in my brain would be lost.

          1. Helen of What

            Hahaha I’m so glad I’m not the only one who had this reaction. I don’t even have a car and I’m like NOOOOOOOOOO!

        1. Ad Astra

          I would actually feel kind of violated if someone broke into my car to have sex in it. And I don’t even have a nice car.

        2. knitcrazybooknut

          REALLY feeling happy about owning a Smart car right about now. Pretty much logistically impossible.

          1. Windchime

            Ha. Remind me to tell you the story about my almost-6 foot tall self and a guy in the front seat of a 70’s era Pinto. Where there’s a will, there’s a way.

        3. Sarah in DC

          That is what freaked me out, because a) gross, and b) I would assume breaking into people’s cars takes some effort-either stealing people’s keys or using some other method to break into the car (I wouldn’t even know where to begin).
          Having sex at work is one (totally inappropriate) thing, but the level of violation that is having sex in your unsuspecting coworker’s car is insane.

      2. NickelandDime

        If I found out a coworker broke into my car during work hours to have sex, I might lay my hands on them. And then what would management do? Just say “kids will be kids,” make me apologize, and send me back to my desk? I just…I couldn’t work here.

        I knew when the OP started the letter with that wishy-washy defending of their “work culture” instead of just providing the update, it would end like this. No one said anything out of line in the comments, except that this was messed up and unprofessional, which is true.

        I’m almost wishing they hadn’t provided the update. I’m mad at them all over again.

        1. Steve G

          Me too I’d be quite….unprofessional..with anyone who freakin’ touched me car, desk, or even a couch in a common area I need to touch. If you are being unprofessional to this level, don’t expect me to say “oh these kids these days” and laugh!!!!

        2. OfficePrincess

          Yeah, pretty sure if I got to my car after work and saw someone had broken into it, my first thought wouldn’t be “Oh someone went for bonus points” but rather “WTF someone broke into my car?!?! Calling the cops now”

        3. BananaPants

          Hell, if I found out a coworker broke into my car (or my car was otherwise broken into while parked at work), I’d be calling the POLICE.

          1. Noobtastic

            I’m paranoid. My first thought would be to check for bombs.

            Because I spent some time, during my youth, in an area where we had to check for bombs.

            One more reason that this is NOT COOL.

      3. Ezri

        Here’s my question… if they are willing to break into cars, what else are they willing to do? I get that the OP likes the culture and benefits, but I don’t think I could sit on or touch any surface in that office ever again. No amount of sanitation products could overcome that paranoia.

        1. Hypatia

          Not to mention the consent issues. I mean, obviously it’s already being violated if folks are breaking into other people’s cars (!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!) to get their nasty on, but what’s gonna happen the first time someone decides they don’t want to play anymore? Are these same folks, who think it’s okay to break other kinds of boundaries in the most egregious ways, really going to take “no” for an answer?

    1. Sara

      Yeah, this was really what I wanted to know about. I had hoped that there might be *some* resolution to this, even if it was only that they transformed their sex den back into a copy room.

  7. NoCalHR

    Wow…every HR nerve in my body is screaming ‘No! No! Noooooooo!’ OP, please document everything in writing if you’ve not already done this, because when the fecal matter meets the oscillating air move, it will stick to everyone in range. *SMYID, looking for the Advil*

      1. Koko

        I think she must have intended SMHID – shaking my head in disgust. I can’t figure out what starts with Y that you would be shaking…or maybe I’m totally off and she’s Slurping (her) Yogurt in Delight :)

    1. Helen of What

      Yeahhh…I’ve worked and interviewed in some casual environments, with execs that eschew suits, drink merrily, and curse like sailors, but I would not be happy to work in this sort of environment. If my car was broken into, and I got wind of what may have happened in it, I’d consider calling a lawyer. I’m so seriously not prudish (my dream job would be in sex education! I’ve applied to work at adult toy companies!) but the lack of boundaries would make me horribly uncomfortable.

      I’m going to put this away as “probably fake” in my mind, but in case… OP, know that since you didn’t address the incident in the copy room, you have likely cemented in these kids’ minds that they can get away with anything without consequences. I’m with NoCalHR, CYA or you may be SOL if one of your coworkers reads this blog and has the gut reaction I’ve just had.

  8. Alan

    I think we’re all agreed that it’s wildly unprofessional. I would also say that breaking into peoples’ cars – even if nothing is stolen – is a criminal act. I don’t think it’s a wise idea to nod and wink at criminal acts taking place on the company premises or for which the company might be held accountable.

    All that said, I support the OP’s decision to make the compromises that are comfortable for them and to continue working in an environment with a team they feel does well.

    1. cuppa

      Yeah, I’m kind of surprised that’s being brushed off, too. I would not appreciate my car being entered and quacked.

    2. Sarahnova

      Seriously. If coworkers were breaking into my car so they could have sex in it, I would hit the ducking roof. And call the police myself. And I’m not one to do that lightly.

      Something is just… really wrong here.

    3. JMegan

      Yeah, the car thing. What? Like, people’s cars are getting broken into, and the boss is okay with it? I mean, the sex part could theoretically be written off as “consenting adults, yada yada,” but in what world does anyone in authority respond to a series of car break-ins as “kids being kids”?

      OP, I do support your right to stay there as long as you think it’s beneficial to you. But I hope you have other options as well, for whenever you do decide it’s time to move on.

      1. Dana

        I can’t believe people are breaking into other people’s cars and the owners of the cars are okay with it! Is literally EVERYONE in on this club besides OP??

    4. Stranger than fiction

      Totally! How can they be so cavalier about that?! Just cements my feeling both bosses are participating. And it anmoys me Op keeps saying how high performing everyone is…with all the distraction of planning these hookups and breaking into cars and offices…really??

      1. Not So Sunny

        I like how the boss’s boss asked “what other proof do you have?” — as in, “is there something with MY name on it?”

    5. Allison

      Seriously, breaking into someone’s car, even if it’s not to steal anything, is still really bad and shouldn’t be brushed off like that.

      I have to wonder, would a car smell . . . different, after two people have done the hokey pokey in there?

        1. fposte

          If it’s in the sun, that’s another reason why I’m skeptical. Nobody even wants to sit in a car without the A/C, let alone do anything that would work up a sweat.

    6. LiveAndLetDie

      My question is, wouldn’t you call the cops for a police report if your car was broken into, in case you needed to file an insurance claim for any repairs, and then *also* notify the company on whose property the act was committed? Not just one or the other? This seems so fishy to me.

      1. RVA Cat

        Also, are they at a location where customers or vendors would come on site? If so, imagine how things would blow up if some duckies decided to break into *their* car? (Or worse, a customer/outside party caught them in the act?!)

      2. Student

        If you didn’t find obvious damage, I could see just shaking your head and ignoring it, or reporting it to the direct manager. I’d call the police AND notify the manager, in the hopes that the manager would install a parking lot camera or something.

  9. Bend & Snap

    Well…there are condoms at work and it’s okay to use them during office hours. That’s one way to promote a collaborative work environment.

    1. cuppa

      I once worked for an AIDS charity that did have condoms available at work — but people still took them home, they didn’t use them there.

      1. Sara

        Yeah, in my Peace Corps post we had free condoms all over town – at the schools, at the library, at every store, at all government offices, at the churches…everywhere. But it was understood that just because you could grab a condom when you went to return your library book, it didn’t mean you could make use of it at the library!

      2. Ad Astra

        Some of the coffee shops in my college town had condom bowls, and there were always rumors that people would poke holes in them just to mess with people. I never saw any evidence of this, but I definitely vowed never to take one and find out. Maybe that was the rumor-starter’s intent?

      3. Sigrid

        Yeah, I used to work at (and still volunteer at) an HIV/AIDS clinic and we have condoms everywhere. We hand them out like candy. (We also hand out candy.) We also talk about sex pretty much constantly. And somehow, everyone manages to avoid having sex with each other, and at work!

    2. Felicia

      I used to work at a health centre, very similar to planned parenthood, and there were free condoms. But just because they’re there doesn’t mean you’re allowed to use them on the premises.

      1. Cactus

        Same here. I would frequently take some, sometimes for my own use, sometimes to give out to others. But sex at work was not happening.

    3. Windchime

      OP should just be relieved she doesn’t work in one of those “open office” plans we’ve talked about recently. Seems like things would get pretty ducking awkward during ……uh…..club meetings.

  10. Malissa

    I’d file this one under consenting adults can do what they want. I’d also bet good money that the supervisor’s boss is a member of the club.
    Just make sure that none of your employees are feeling pressure to join or are getting flack for leaving the flock.

      1. INTP

        Me too but I feel like an environment of rampant gamified sex in increasingly inappropriate and disrespectful places is probably not going to maintain a strong “enthusiastic consent is the only consent” ethos. It wouldn’t be unusual for someone to feel like once they’d gotten involved, they had to play along, or there to be social consequences for people who left the group, or people to fear retaliation when propositioned by superiors.

    1. Anon E Mouse

      I have to agree with you on this. It sounded to me like he must’ve been part of it. Otherwise, wouldn’t he be concerned about the legal or HR considerations down the road if the worst case scenario other commentors addressed?

      I’m not sure I’d want to stay there. I’d at least make an effort to bring some cleaning wipes/hand sanitizer while doing the job search and still working there knowing how many surfaces could’ve been used to “score points.”

    2. Mike C.

      Uh, there are serious legal issues here. Sexual harassment and OSHA come immediately to mind, not to mention people breaking into cars.

      1. Malissa

        Would OSHA require a proper surface for said activities? I know you’re not supposed to block doorways….

        Yes there are other issues, but what can the OP control here? Other than making sure that this activity doesn’t play in decision making or involve coercion in the realm she can control. Because if this does become a reported sexual harassment issue then she can do more.

        1. Mike C.

          OSHA would require proper containment of bodily fluids and other biohazards, along with appropriate equipment, training and notification.

          1. Disney Channel Presents: That's So Craven

            “Hello, Astroglide Corporation? Yeah, do you have MSDSes available on your website?”

      2. bridget

        And it would be much easier to say it’s just about consenting adults if there wasn’t also a suspicion that the boss was in on it. There’s just no way there isn’t some element of coercion if your boss’s boss is one of the potential partners in the mix. Even if a quid pro quo isn’t explicit, it’s *really* easy to see that implication under the circumstances.

        yuck.

    3. Gandalf the Nude

      If he’s a member of the club, then that makes it so much worse! How could you possibly be sure no one was being coerced if someone that high in the company was involved? So many people are not going to feel like they can say “no” to one of the top guys in the company or to say anything if they face retaliation for saying “no”.

    4. The Strand

      I agree. If this is really what happened, and that was really his reaction, I’d bet $20 real money he’s as quackers as the rest of them.

  11. cheeky

    This remains one of the weirdest things I’ve read here. In fact, this update only piles it on.

  12. KT

    I…just…what?

    Want to take bets on how long until there’s an update with a lawsuit or sexual harassment complaint?

  13. Nina

    Thanks for the update, OP. I’m wondering if the head boss would still be so casual if he caught these people having duck-themed sex in his office, rather than the copy room. Is it still “kids being kids” then?

    Either way, ew.

    1. EarlGrey

      Wow, yeah, and what can OP do now next time they catch these employees in the act? Or has someone report it to them? I’m sure it’s inevitable…”oh, thanks for the heads up that someone’s ducking in the copy room, but actually the big boss is cool with that, so….”

      1. Nina

        It definitely puts the OP in a weird situation if this should happen again. The boss taking such a “whatever” stance to the whole thing just makes it harder for the OP to discuss serious matters with him.

        At any rate, I wouldn’t venture into that copy room without some Lysol and a pair of rubber gloves.

        1. EarlGrey

          Seriously, if I were OP, and I were still determined to stay for the work/pay/benefits/etc, I’d invest in some cleaning supplies and make sure I had a mental script ready for any of my staff reporting any…incidents….to me. It’s a crummy situation the boss has put them in.

  14. BRR

    “Remember the letter-writer in April who walked in two employees having sex and then found evidence of an office sex club?”

    Uh, how could I forget?

    1. Anon E Mouse

      Right? I think it’s burned into my brain. This update was not what I expected.

    1. Ad Astra

      In the (imo, unlikely) event that this story is true, I think the boss must be involved. That’s the only explanation for his behavior.

  15. Mockingjay

    So, club members receive pay while ‘quacking’ on the job.

    I thought that was only legal in certain places in Nevada.

    (And Alison did a very interesting interview with the bookkeeper, I think it was, at one of them.)

    1. Saturn9

      I believe it would only be illegal if Duck Club is considered “other duties, as assigned.”

    2. Cambridge Comma

      I think the original letter said they were clocked out. So they have some compunctions at least.

  16. Ann Furthermore

    Remember the letter-writer in April who walked in two employees having sex and then found evidence of an office sex club?

    How could you not remember?? That being said, I’m pretty shocked by the way this was handled, or not handled, actually. In the OP’s position I’d assume that the boss’s boss was saying, in a wink-wink, nudge-nudge kind of way, that he’s in on the duck club. But I’m a total cynic.

  17. JustMe

    Maybe this is the new normal. With so many companies moving toward unconventional operations, I wouldn’t doubt this is going on in more places of employment than we can imagine.

    1. BeeBee

      Nooo! I certainly had my time working at places where there was also a lot of hanky-pankey going on, but it was definietly not condoned by the bosses or the company.

  18. Van Wilder

    I’m so disappointed! I mean, it’s fine that OP is ok working there but what about new employees that come into this environment? Is it fair to start a new job and then find out that there’s this weird thing going on and feeling pressured to join or left out of the culture? Or even having to deal with the fact that that is a decision one would have to make in the workplace? What if your company gets a reputation for this culture? Sorry, I’m just beyond weirded out.

    1. Cat

      Right? Like how did they recruit people? They MUST have approached people who declined to join, right? Can you imagine someone sidling up to you in the office restroom and trying to talk you into this?

      1. Ad Astra

        I’m wondering if perhaps this started off as just a couple of people and gradually employees approached the original employees to join, rather than having people going around extending invitations? That would make the situation more palatable for me. I guess.

      2. Van Wilder

        Right? Or do they get a few drinks in you at happy hour and then bring it up? Like middle-aged swingers that I’ve seen on sitcoms.

    2. Helen of What

      Yup. I really feel for the employees outside of this team who probably have no idea what’s been happening. I hope getting caught embarrassed the club members enough to knock it off.

      1. Carrie

        Yes, what about new people? A young, inexperienced person finally lands a job and then this is the “work culture” they have to deal with? Or, what about a person who leaves a job for this one?
        This whole thing is sick and socially irresponsible (even if they are using condoms!).

      2. INTP

        And those are the people whose cars are being broken into, since it seems unlikely that a duck club member would report it.

    3. Creag an Tuire

      And finding out a -senior manager- is in on it? No, that definitely won’t feel like coercion at all.

      Nothing personal, OP, but I kind of want this company to collapse under the mother of all hostile work environment lawsuits.

  19. Iron Nick

    I’m really amused that this update is coming right after the post on how to build better relationships with other departments….

    1. SanguineAspect

      Duck Club = Interdepartmental Relationship Building. Everyone say “quack, quack!”

  20. Snarkus Aurelius

    You’re still incredibly naive, I’m sorry, if you still think this is something normal or something that can be written off. You’re shrugging it if off when you shouldn’t.

    It’s wrong, and it shouldn’t be happening. Period.

    Also your office is fertile ground for a lawsuit.

    1. NickelandDime

      Something very bad is going to happen at this place, and the OP is going to be sorry they just shrugged it off.

      1. AndersonDarling

        I hope the “Very Bad” thing is that the OP calls an attorney and files a sexual harassment claim. It seems like things are OK for the OP now, but at some point something will piss her off enough to make the call.
        Then I can get the update I was looking forward to.

    2. JMegan

      I don’t get the feeling that the OP is naive, or that she thinks it’s normal . After all, she did write in for advice on how to handle it. Just that it’s not worth leaving her job over. I get that, because changing jobs is a big huge life decision, and OP seems to have thought it over and decided that staying is the better choice – at least for now.

      I do agree that the whole thing is wildly not-normal, though.

    3. cuppa

      Sorry, OP, you might all get along really well, but I’m having serious trouble reconciling “high performers” and “rampant sex club”

      1. YogiJosephina

        This. And I’m going to take it a step further and say I don’t really care how much she “takes issue” with our view, but a workplace where this would/could happen this way is NOT a workplace with a “good work culture.” It’s just not. Just because you all get along and get paid well, does not mean it’s a “good work culture.”

        She says that just because of what was going on, doesn’t make what she said any less true. It’s actually the opposite. Just because they all get along and she claims it’s a great place to work, that doesn’t make the fact that it’s actually NOT any less true.

        I don’t know why, but her defensiveness and her reluctance to see this for what it actually is is really off-putting to me.

        1. AnonAnalyst

          I totally agree with all of this, and have to say the defensiveness was off-putting to me too. This is such a hugely dysfunctional thing to have happen in a workplace; I can’t see it happening anywhere I’ve ever worked, but especially not the places that I would consider having a good work culture.

          Also, I just can’t believe that an excellent work culture exists when you take something to someone in upper management that’s making you uncomfortable and the reaction is to say “kids will be kids” and mock you on the way out. Even if you had come in with something completely ridiculous, unless you were escalating minor complaints all the time, a place with an excellent work culture would at least go through the effort of listening and talking through those concerns even if there was nothing to be done (and definitely NOT quacking at you on the way out).

        2. puddin

          Ima back you up on this one. It s a good duck culture, maybe a good happy hour culture. It definitely sounds like a poor work culture. If this were uncovered during your job search it would be the most scarlet of red flags.

        3. BeeBee

          IF this story is true, there is absolutely no way this could be a normal and productive workplace. Not when people are so preoccupied with sneaking off to bang one out every day and make a game of it. This isn’t the Superbowl square pool you know!

      2. Clever Name

        Exactly. High performers spend their time at work, you know, working. Not “ducking”.

      3. Marcela

        Really? I don’t doubt they can be high performers. I’ve met few people that can work 4 or 6 hours without having to take a break, and some who take as many breaks as possible. And being very honest, a quacking doesn’t require hours: 10, 15 minutes are more than enough, even less if you are committed and kind of desperate/inspired. So all those facebook, coffee or smoke breaks, can be quack breaks. And they can perfectly getting all objectives done, goals surpassed, clients happy. Now, I agree with you that this is a horrible work culture, but remember that when you are too long in Crazyland, you start thinking that’s normal.

        1. Dana

          Yeah but when I check facebook for 15 minutes, that’s it. I don’t roam the hallways beforehand checking out who might want to log on to facebook with me at a time convenient for both of us. I don’t stop by the restroom to grab my password first. I don’t go through the parking lot checking for unlocked cars–or worse, jimmying them open–so I can move their seats around to check facebook. I’m not then filling out a sheet for how many points I got for all of the above. There’s a lot of logistics that are happening here that is way beyond 15 minutes of distraction from work.

    4. grasshopper

      I think that the OP is being naive/defensive as a self-protection mechanism. The niggling little voice in the back of the head or the bad feeling in the pit of the stomach was enough to write the original letter, but not enough to overcome the OP’s worldview that the company is good. I certainly wouldn’t make life decisions based on internet comments, but I hope that the overwhelming consensus in these comments that “sex club at work = bad” might factor into the cost-benefit analysis of staying at that job.

    5. Kat

      That office is fertile ground for a lot of things, evidently. LOL (sorry, couldn’t resist that one)

  21. AVP

    OP, for what it’s worth, I would bet good money that your boss’s boss is part of this club.

    1. All the other kids with the pumped up kicks you'd better run

      Yeah, this is about what I expected when this first came up. Of course upper management is involved! It’s a group of power-crazed executives and one of the ‘perks’ of the job is that they can grab a little nubile new-hire action now and again. I’m gonna guess the place is a little like Wolfram & Hart, but with sexual frolics instead of black magic. I bet the CEO owns that mansion in Kubrick’s Eyes Wide Shut.

      (Actually, I’m inclined to think that the update, if not the entire story, is a fake. The “You guys have a good day, quack quack” line is a bit much).

      But – ya know, there really are swingers out there in the world. They tend to keep pretty quiet (when they’re not oiled up and sliding around in a big dogpile at some convention resort). Maybe this business was founded by swingers, and they’ve set themselves up to be “Lifestyle Friendly”. Swinger parents can get their kids internships there, not to mention full-time jobs when they graduate. I know, ick – but in a way it’s not too different from Rosemary’s Baby or The Stepford Wives. (It’s a pity Ira Levin is no longer with us; this would be a natural for him). Or the Society Islands before European explorers found them. As with any conspiracy, the tough part is keeping it all secret as it grows. But the kinky sex aspect might help with that: people are probably less likely to run to the press if they’re going to be exposed as a perv.

      1. I'm a Little Teapot

        I laughed aloud at “a little like Wolfram & Hart, but with sexual frolics instead of black magic.”

        I doubt most swingers would want to have any connection between their swinging and their work. Most folks with unusual or kinky sex lives whom I’ve known probably wouldn’t, at least. But I certainly have met people with non-functioning sexual boundaries, so anything’s possible.

  22. cuppa

    I would like to see a new mug in the cafepress store: “The first rule about Duck Club is that no one talks about Duck Club.”

  23. SandrineSmiles (France)

    Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

    Can I repeat that ? EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW.

    I’m sorry, OP, you are, in fact, naive. I understand you get paid good money and benefits this, benefits that, but a company where this happens and nothing is done is NOT as nice a company as you thought.

    Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

    1. YogiJosephina

      And it’s like, seriously? Good pay and benefits is why you’re claiming this is such a “fantastic work environment?” As if there aren’t THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of work environments with good pay, good benefits, and where **** like this doesn’t happen?

      Seriously, OP. Raise the bar a little higher, here. I don’t know why you’re so unwilling to see this for the EGREGIOUS, OUTRAGEOUS offense that this is, but I assure you, THAT IS WHAT IT IS.

  24. SanguineAspect

    If this isn’t a hoax, I’m completely flummoxed.

    Of course, if I were the boss and someone came to me with this story–The Duck Club, lists, quacking, covert condoms in the bathroom, people’s car seats in weird positions…it all DOES sound very conspiracy-theory-esque. Maybe I’d think a person telling me that was yanking my chain or imagining things, depending on my past experiences with them. I dunno.

    Quack, quack!

    1. EarlGrey

      I can see that, but I also get the sense that all this stuff adds up to a very strong gut feeling that Duck Club is real and it’s exactly what you think it is. I can also see the boss having OP’s initial reaction – “this is too weird and difficult to deal with, therefore, I’m not going to.” Which I totally understand as a first reaction, but this guy’s job is to deal with tough situations…

      1. SanguineAspect

        Totally. I’m just trying to imagine my employee and HIS employee walking into my office and telling me: “I don’t know how to tell you this, but there’s a sex club in the office. It’s called the Duck Club.”

    2. MK

      I can understand him thinking there aren’t evidence about the duck club scenario, at least not enough to confront people about it. But his whole reaction is bizzarre; not “I don’t think we should be making wild accusations based on vague odd things happening”, but “Wouldn’t it be funny if it were true?”. And in any case, the two who were caught in the act should be cautioned at least.

      1. SanguineAspect

        YES. The two caught in the act should have had some sort of disciplinary action taken (firing, IMO), at the very least. It does strike me as odd that neither her manager or her manager’s manager feel like that’s something that should happen.

  25. Nerdling

    If you don’t have written proof that you had this conversation and this was the outcome, OP, there’s not a darn thing to keep your boss from throwing you under the bus in the event of a complaint or lawsuit. And it does nothing to absolve you of liability, either.

  26. TheExchequer

    0.o The mind boggles. I just . . . what. You have a “duck” club at work for POINTS where people are damaging work property (the couch) and their coworker’s property (cars) and your boss’s boss thinks “kids will be kids” is an appropriate response. I’d be putting out my resume so fast, heads would spin. Run, OP. Run like the wind!

  27. Anon for this post

    I don’t think the post is fake. I know someone that worked at a major insurance company that had crazy sex-capades. It wasn’t necessarily done in the building but it was no secret that John and Jane were using their lunch break to drive into the cemetery across the street and get it on. And then Jane and Bill the next week and John and Jesse the week after that. It was incestuous, out in the open, and people acted like it was normal. They were all same level colleagues. The person I knew that worked there didn’t take part but couldn’t believe this was going on so blatantly at a major company. Oh, and a lot of the people involved were married.

    1. Anon for this post

      ETA – were married to other people that didn’t work there. The sex with coworkers was “on the side.”

    1. Jen W

      This is what gets me! The details aren’t adding up. I keep coming back to the OP’s insistence that everyone is a “high performer” but…I don’t associate “high performers” with part-time student workers or interns, and I don’t really think a manager in an office setting would call his employees “kids” unless they were student workers/interns?

      1. Steve G

        Well, actually, they would, unfortunately I’ve been called “child” or “kid” or some other reference to someone born very recently even after 30, mostly by middle aged guys

    2. Chickaletta

      Exactly. Why does everyone at that company call them “kids”? And what does their age have to do with whether their sex club is acceptable in a work environment? And why does a company that supposedly attracts high-level performers and offer such great benefits end up with an upper management that does’t care? So many levels of WTH.

    3. BananaPants

      Assuming this is true, I could see this sort of environment at one of those companies that offers management training programs to new college graduates. A friend of mine was in such a program with a rental car company that I will otherwise keep nameless, and their internal recruiters specifically looked to hire attractive and social young people. He found that the trainees/assistant managers were expected to hit Happy Hour with their boss every Thursday and Friday and to attend mixers and other social events. He knew for a fact that several of the other trainees and assistant managers in the same branch would hook up casually like they were back in college, although he never saw anyone actually doing so in the branch itself. He was married and wanted nothing of that – he made it through his 2 years and found a better job.

      1. The Strand

        A certain car rental company that happens to pride themselves on “picking you up”, by any chance?

  28. Tobias Funke, Analrapist

    This can’t be real. But if it is, it has to be a call center, right?

  29. AFT123

    Recruiter: “We’ve got GREAT benefits at our company. Gym reimbursement, health benefits, generous PTO, and wait until you hear about this club we’ve got…”

  30. GigglyPuff

    Here’s a novel concept, maybe the two employees who were caught having sex should be asked if there’s a sex club?

    duh

      1. AnotherFed

        Bet they would own up to it when you threatened to fire them! If they don’t, fire them anyway and time for random inspections of various places that were on the points list. Then the next people caught will know you mean it when you say you’ll fire them if they don’t implicate the whole ring…

  31. Laurel Gray

    I still refuse to believe this letter is real.

    However, I am staying for the jokes and puns.

  32. buddleia

    Oh man, I’d been so curious to see an update on this one – what a let down!

    Either way, thanks for updating, OP. And if this is fake, good for you for coming up with this story. If real, maybe you should put in your job ads under “benefits”: “Sex with your colleagues and entry into a workplace sex club. Free condoms supplied!”

  33. Artemesia

    I don’t believe it.

    But if true, the OP needs to document this in a time stamped way. Perhaps an Email summarizing the meeting with the boss that goes to her supervisor and is printed and secured.

  34. Andy

    Dearest OP, this is so frikkin’ weird. But you should take notes because your workmates are giving you a heck uv a lot of material and I will tell you something….you CAN NOT make stuff like this up. I mean that I cannot, but also that it is really hard to tell a convincing tale of squick to a jaded American lady and this squicked the quack out of me.

  35. James M.

    I’m rather amazed that all of this prolific quackery hasn’t erupted in drama and/or toxicity. At least, from what I remember of high school, relationship drama (of others) was a favorite talking point. The breaking into cars (I’m assuming no damage or theft) is troubling and may be worth addressing as its own issue.

    I’m willing to bet big boss holds the high score.

    1. AnotherFed

      Well of course he does – he presumably has all the keys to the place AND access to things like the big boss’ desk. Plus he can use the big boss coercion factor to get everyone to participate…

      Totally a rape/sexual harassment charge waiting to happen.

      1. AndersonDarling

        Very true. There isn’t just a risk of sexual harassment, there is a potential of criminal charges.

    2. Arjay

      Didn’t the list have points for doing it in the boss’s office? Is this boss the one on the list? You’d think that would change his answer real quick.

  36. brightstar

    I can’t fathom a workplace that would allow so many lawsuit potentials and criminal activities to continue without repercussion and without a word. If this situation is real, I suggest getting out even if you like the job, like your coworkers, and think it can’t backfire on you. Because it can, and if this is all truly going on, it will eventually blow back on a lot of people, including the OP.

  37. Looby

    Unless you’re leaving your vehicle unlocked, wouldn’t it be obvious if someone has broken into it? I mean unless the duck club is working together to steal people’s keys and then replacing them when they’re done…

    1. AnotherFed

      I was also leaning towards key-borrowing. In most offices I worked in, no one locked up their car keys at work even when they did lock up wallets.

      Still, wouldn’t you expect there to be security cameras with a view of at least some of these shenanigans?

  38. Mike C.

    I’m a bit skeptical myself – breaking into cars, really? Unless you all drive older vehicles or Hondas, it’s not a trivial exercise for the average office worker.

    That being said, if I caught a coworker breaking into my car they’d be leaving work in my trunk.

    1. Kyrielle

      Unless people were being casual and not locking their car doors, or something, agreed.

      1. Judy

        Quite a few of the males I’ve worked with over the years keep their wallet and keys in their desk drawer. And pretty much all of the females keep their purses in their desk drawer.

        1. AnotherFed

          But were the drawers kept locked? Granted, I work at a place where many people carpool, so key borrowing is pretty normal and no one would think twice if Jane stopped into her carpool buddy’s desk and borrowed his keys.

    2. Rebecca too

      Yes, yes, yes!! My thoughts exactly. And no one ever witnessed these cars getting broken into? Or, God forbid, what was happening inside of the cars? I’m totally not buying it. But kudos to OP for busting up an otherwise boring Tuesday afternoon!

    3. Anon Accountant

      Exactly. I can’t imagine that many people left their cars unlocked or keys in an area to be accessed and their car opened by someone else. If Jane mentioned it was odd her seats were pushed forward and later Betty said the same thing, wouldn’t that have made security or management think maybe there was someone breaking in to cars and steps be taken from there?

      No one caught anyone breaking into a car? No one saw 2 people getting out of a car that clearly wasn’t one of their own? I’m sorry but I think this letter is a hoax. At least parts of it sound like a hoax.

  39. YandO

    A tampon dispenser that gives out condoms!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    what additional proof is needed? what is wrong with people in this world?

    *head exploded*
    *blood and gore everywhere*

    1. Windchime

      Especially since tampons and condoms aren’t even the same shape in their packaging. Like, at all. So how do the condoms fit in the vending machine?

      I think we’ve been had.

      1. teclagwig

        Yes, this. I keep wondering about the logistics of condoms being neatly dispensed by a machine sized for tampons. But maybe these bathroom dispensers are interchangeable?

  40. EarlGrey

    I love that they’re using condoms but also using the grossest possible surfaces. That couch!!!

  41. Clever Name

    I’m speechless.

    I’m probably paranoid, but if I were in this situation, I would want some kind of written proof that I reported it using the proper channels. Not like anyone is going to get arrested over this or anything, but you never know if management changes hands in the future and someone takes charge who isn’t okay with the Duck Club. And a member of the Club says, “Well, my manager must be okay with it because they walked in on us but nothing happened later”. Just no.

    Maybe send an email (that you then print out and keep at home) to your boss and boss’ boss saying something to the effect of, “Just wanted to confirm that after hearing the information I brought to you regarding the alleged “Duck Club” you are not wanting me to take any further action.” Maybe that’s overkill, but it really is outrageous that the grandboss doesn’t want to do anything. I’m almost thinking he’s a member…

    1. Stranger than fiction

      Yes she should do that. It’s only a matter of time until shes subpoenaed because someone is suing for harassment. This place must be making money hand over fist for management not to care about this

  42. Hiring Mgr

    That’s really strange…I guess it’s just like that in the work world though. We’ve got this one guy at my office, let’s call him “Jim”, who loves eating peanuts, but just leaves the shells all over the breakroom table! I mean the trash can is like two feet away, but does Jim put them in the trash? No! Just leaves the peanut shells right there on the table..

    Takes all kinds I guess…

  43. HRish Dude

    I’m pretty convinced by now that this letter is not all it’s quacked up to be.

  44. Mickey Q

    I say it’s fake. Has anyone ever seen that movie The Apartment? The OP is writing a screenplay.

    1. Sadsack

      I am starting to think you are right. I cannot believe that an upper level manager would react the way OP’s supposedly has. Especially with allegations of vandalism of employee vehicles on top of everything else. Nice try, OP!

        1. HRish Dude

          Without knowing how a tampon dispenser works, I’m not even sure that’s possible.

        2. LPBB

          That is exactly what made cry BS! It’s so unnecessary, not mention risky, and I’m not entirely sure that it would work.

        3. Saurs

          More “hilarious” hijinks for OP’s bad erotica:
          first aid kit aspirin / acetaminophen has been switched out for viagra;
          desklamp bulbs replaced with red-colored edison ones (sexy… and environmentally inefficient!);
          coffee stirrers now miniature dildos?? I’m terrible at this.

      1. Whataloadofbovineexcrement

        I agree! You can’t even tell your co-worker that they “look nice today” without the fear of a sexual harrassment claim. But we’re supposed to believe they’re okay with a sex club?

    2. Rocket Scientist

      I loved that movie! It was redone in HD a few years ago and is worth checking out, if anyone is looking for weekend recommendation.

    3. Steve G

      the only thing I see as suspicious is that….maybe its just me, but I never just slept with anybody, I can’t imagine a group where every one is goodlooking enough + I’m attracted to, yet there isn’t anyone so attractive that they are out of the league and would want to exclude me. So I am picturing a group of very goodlooking but not extremely goodlooking people, and most workplaces just aren’t that unilaterally attractive. Or in the same age group, which probably would come into play here as well. If people were of varying attractiveness levels, or you had a homebody and a bodybuilder in the same group, the rampant switching of partners probably wouldn’t work and people would have paired off long ago.

      1. All the other kids with the pumped up kicks you'd better run

        Steve G – I don’t mean this as some kind of putdown, but – I’m going to guess you’ve never met any real-life swingers? In my albeit limited experience, they’re probably slightly less attractive on average than other similar but non-sexual social groups (a bowling league, say). I’m hardly an expert, but I read a lot and I know people who have been involved in this stuff, and – looks matter, but not as much as I would have thought. Whereas some people might be blessed with good looks, people not so blessed scored points for making the best of what they had.

      2. Lizzy

        No offense, but I think you are conflating the standards of looking for a long-term partner with looking for a partner for quick sex. As mentioned in the comment above about swingers, the latter doesn’t necessarily require assessing whether someone is in your league and at your “sexual market value.” I also believe the OP mentioned in the original letter that the likely culprits were between the ages of 22-25, so not far removed from college. In college, it is not uncommon to have lax attitudes towards hookups, especially amongst close groups of friends. Studies have shown that people tend to date and marry within their own league, but sex clubs and similar activities don’t over think this. If you are open to the idea of new and different sex encounters, you are more likely to be lax with your standards in a sex partner (as long as they are not offensive and adhere to rules and boundaries). So yes, the hot bodybuilder and the homebody could end up having a sexual encounter, and it isn’t so uncommon either.

  45. Another HRPro

    What the what!?!?!?!

    I just can’t….

    OP, do yourself a favor. Definitely write a memo to file (and date it) documenting what you observed, and the conversations you held (identify all who were involved and the dates of the observances and conversations). This will be helpful if you ever need to prove that you did report the situation. Does your company have some sort of anonymous hotline for compliance violations? If so, please call and report all of this.

    At any reasonable company, if employees were observed having sex in the office they would be fired. The fact that your boss’s boss did nothing and actually made a joke of it is so ridiculous my head hurts.

    I would say go to HR, but who knows how they would respond given how the story is going. They would probably quack in your face.

  46. SaraV

    Let me harken back to one of yesterday’s Q&A’s…

    W.

    T.

    F.

    This company is dancing on such thin ice right now, they’d better be stocked up on thermal scuba suits. And by scuba suits, I mean a stash of money for when…not IF…the lawsuit comes.

  47. Whataloadofbovineexcrement

    I’m disappointed that the OP think so little of the AAM crowd as to try to pass this off as a believable story. I hope she got the thrill she was after.

  48. Chriama

    I’m honestly pretty disturbed by this. It’s a sexual harrassment lawsuit waiting to happen. It’s obvious that some people are part of this club while others aren’t. All it takes is someone pointing out a pattern of favoured treatment to the ‘quackers’ to have the company buried under a pile of lawsuits. A boss who ignores this because he’s part of the club is going to destroy this. And if he doesn’t ignore this, but then someone raises the issue and it turns out he was notified about this… either way, you’re all screwed (HA!). And OP, just because you reported it to your boss doesn’t absolve you of responsibility. If someone raises this as an issue, the fact that you new about it and didn’t escalate to HR means you’re just as responsible as your shady boss. I get the appeal of keeping your head down and pretending it doesn’t exist, but by doing this you actually become complicit in it. I hope you realize that keeping silent means you’re actually condoning it, at least in the eyes of the law.

    1. HR Caligula

      “And OP, just because you reported it to your boss doesn’t absolve you of responsibility. If someone raises this as an issue, the fact that you new about it and didn’t escalate to HR means you’re just as responsible as your shady boss. I get the appeal of keeping your head down and pretending it doesn’t exist, but by doing this you actually become complicit in it. I hope you realize that keeping silent means you’re actually condoning it, at least in the eyes of the law.”
      Yes, yes it does. He’s not civilly or criminally liable in anyway.

  49. Macedon

    I don’t mind fiction, but at least make it decent. OP, you played your hand too blatantly by returning with an ‘update.’

  50. LBK

    If this is true it’s absolutely ridiculous and I can’t believe you would just resign yourself to being there. Unacceptable. This starts to reach the point where it says more about you for not doing anything than it does about the people doing it. If you have even a modicum of disciplinary authority, you need to exercise it immediately – you do not need your manager’s authority or his manager’s authority to hunt down the culprits and purge this shit from your office. If you’re capable of speaking, you’re capable of doing SOMETHING other than just quietly pretending it’s not happening.

    Wow. Just wow.

  51. Xanthippe Lannister Voorhees

    My car was broken into twice (not at work, in back of my old apartment complex) and while I initially passed it off as them wanting my spare change/hoping there was something good in the glovebox I’m now very concerned that perhaps other things happened in there.

  52. Soupspoon McGee

    At least the OP doesn’t work in an open office. That would put a new spin on hot-desking.

  53. HRChick

    “Our work culture is excellent… but my manager is unconcerned about seriously unprofessional behavior.”
    “My coworkers and I get along great… but they’re breaking into cars to have sex for points”
    “We’re very professional… but we have secret sex cliques”
    “We are high performers… whose professional behavior is so bad it would have gotten them fired at a rational place of employment”
    “We have great work ethic… but will commit illegal acts for personal enjoyment on company property”

    Gee, OP, I wonder why people call into question your coworkers’ work ethic?

    I think this is a hoax as well.

    1. HRChick

      If only because I can’t image someone being so naively blasé about what’s going on. I mean, you’d have to be a pretty special manager to think this is something you can just gloss over and ignore.

  54. Mockingjay

    Regarding the commenters who think this meme is fake:

    I just Googled this (on my phone – no way am I using the work computer). Apparently there are adult sites for “duck clubs.” (I only read the headlines. Did NOT click the links.) So I guess this club really could exist.

    Ewwww. I’m pretty liberal about a lot of things, but I am also private. Duck Club does not belong in workplace. Duck Club does not belong in workplace…Work belongs in workplace. Work belongs in workplace. Repeat mantra.

    1. some1

      As a lot of people have mentioned, the club itself is the only plausible part of the story. The rest of the details are what make the story unbelievable when you put them all together.

  55. MoneyTalks

    If this way of doing things has lead to increased profits, no amount of HR trauma will stop it. I mean, take a look at Uber — a lot of countries have blatantly told them that their service is illegal, but because the financial cost of disobeying is less than the profit, they just shrug it off and pay the legal fees. If a sex club is what it takes to turn the employees into sales stars, then it’s going to take some headline-making damages awards to cause anyone to look think twice.

  56. Mena

    This situation is too ridiculous to be fake!
    OP’s management lacks integrity and backbone. Boss’s boss invalidated the OP with his reaction to her reporting of unprofessional behavior (best word I can use here).
    Strangely, this didn’t seem to be of issue to the OP … ???

  57. hildi

    I’m really, really surprised by how many people think this is fake! It read pretty genuine to me. I must have missed it the first time around because I didn’t remember the letter. So I went back and read the first one and OP talked about the Duck Club Points List. It sounded like there were points for all kinds of locations, so the fact that a car was broken into strikes me as something that could happen if the members were trying to get more points and had already used up the other locations! And you guys know we read about all kinds of insane managers around here – it’s probably the Big Boss’ ideas. Hell, I’ve read more unbelievable things on AAM.

    I’m glad OP at least took it up with her manager and they approached the Big Boss, unsatisfying as it was. I hope OP feels that at least she took some action and I think in a situation like this where it feels like your power and control over something like this has been kind of mangled, talking to someone might help her gather back some feelings of control. At least she did something versus just hand wringing about it. I’d say at this point the fact that this Duck Club exists is kind of out of her control. The boss has already indicated he isn’t interested in acting on it (in the appropriate way! haha). It seems to me that at this point, OP should focus her effort on circling the wagons and dealing with the ones that are under her direct authority to manage.

    1. LBK

      Yeah, I also don’t read it as fake – I’d think that if someone were trolling AAM, they’d write something that more specifically pushes the buttons of the community here (like something really sexist) than something that’s just totally crazy.

  58. Hiring Mgr

    We can’t really give solid advice OP, as the country you’re in will make a big difference. For example, the UK and much of Europe have much different regulations on duck clubs than we do here in the US (i’m not certain about Canada).

    Also, are you an exempt or non-exempt employee?

  59. Ella

    Kids will be kids?!?!?! They’re…they’re not kids! They’re fucking adults! They’re adults fucking! If they were kids this would be a WHOLE DIFFERENT SET OF PROBLEMS.

    How old is too old to be having sex in the office? Asking for a friend.

    1. Ella

      Also, what company is this? I would like to apply and work there. Apparently I get to choose between getting laid at work or a hefty lawsuit settlement. Excellent benefits package, indeed.

  60. Miss M

    What in case an employee claims rape or someone goes to the authorities? OP, definitely make a paper trail so if something goes wrong you won’t face charges or can use this in court. And part of the head boss’ answer makes me think that either 1) he’s in on the whole or 2) he doesn’t want to even hear about it/deal with it.

    1. Ask a Manager Post author

      I don’t know! As I wrote above, I did think the boss’s boss’s reaction sounded a bit “Penthouse Letters” to me and it made me wonder. I’m … not entirely sold.* (And OP, I apologize for that if I’m wrong!)

      (I normally I don’t print letters if I think they might be fake, but I did believe the original letter and I know everyone wanted an update on it, so it’s an odd position to be in.)

        1. Not So NewReader

          OP, has clearly put a lot of thought into this. I sincerely doubt OP would have been able to ask the questions and have this train of thought if she was faking. Fakers give themselves away by the lack of detail or thinking applied to a situation.

          The one question I see that I feel compelled to answer is this:
          “Having a severe lack in judgment doesn’t necessarily preclude one from being a great worker, no?”
          There is a school of thought that says if a person has a severe lack of judgement in one area they will not be able to sustain the areas their judgement is strong. I tend to agree. So my answer to this question would be no, OP, they will not be able to sustain great work over a long period of time. Yes, they maybe doing great work now, but, in my opinion, that great work will not last. It will gradually slide downward. It could take years for this to play out in real life.

          There is something very odd about that big boss. He is either involved in the club or he is so detached from the business that he does not care what is going on. Let’s say he does not care what is going. This is a very bad as this leaves the company wide open to all sorts of failures.

          Lots of people made very good points, here. The only point I can add is what about your company’s reputation in the industry. It won’t be long and your company will become known for it’s sexcapades. These stories go around and it is amazing how many people find out. Is that something you want on your resume? “Yes, I worked for the place with the sex club.” If you stay for any length of time, people may think that you condoned it or were a part of it yourself.

          You asked us not to be judgey, so judgmental people must concern you to some degree. Here’s a few thoughts on that:
          a)There’s lots of people out there who are way more judgey that what you have seen written here, OP. This stuff here is pretty tame, honestly.
          b) When people give advice they are making a judgement call. It’s not a long trek to being judgey, if you are making a judgement call. Where’s the line between being judgey and making judgement call? I am not sure. But I think one thing to consider is what is the intent behind the advice? Are people trying to help you and protect you from harm? Here, I would say, yes, people are trying to protect you from harm. People are saying “get out” based on their own life experiences or what they have seen others go through at their jobs. They are not being judgey about free range sex- they don’t care about free range sex. What they care about is that your company is sheltering it/giving it a home base and your name is attached to that company. Is that what you want your name attached to this sex club? Folks here are concerned about you, your career and your ability to earn income in the future.

          I get it. You love the job/pay and the people you work with are great. OP, there is more that goes into a good work place than those things. Lots more.

          If you still sincerely believe some of us are being judgey, then perhaps you might wish to consult with an attorney to find out what the risks are here.

          1. BeeBee

            At first I thought it was real. When I was *much* younger, I worked at a place that had lots of this stuff going on. Granted, it was not a “duck club,” but there was lots of dating, flirting, cheating and various affairs. Sad to say, at the age of 21, I also participated in a little bit of this tomfoolery at work (what can I say… I was young and it seemed rather exciting at the time). So I have no doubt this stuff happens.

            However, there were some weird things included in the update that make me pause and wonder, and the big boss’s reaction was definitely weird and blasé about the whole thing. It’s all very odd indeed, but real or not, one of the more entertaining letters to AAM.

            OP, if all this sexual quackery continues and doesn’t fade, I would consider getting out of there. Things could really go bad, or at best it’s all just too distracting and unprofessional.

        2. E

          This is definitely a non-standard work issue to address. Hoping the OP can find another less weird workplace, or find someone higher up to address the problem of employees having sex at work.

        3. SanguineAspect

          Huh. I’d totally missed her comment on the original post. I see how you’re torn about this letter’s legitimacy. It seems too bizarre to be real, but I SO feel for her if she finally worked up the nerve to escalate the problem with management, only to be told she’s overreacting.

  61. Mel in HR

    ….huh.

    I almost feel like OP is being paranoid about the whole situation. I was surprised when I read the original letter, but all of this is coming from OP’s perspective. I feel like the odds of there being a “Duck Club” and that the boss wouldn’t do anything about it are slim. However if there really is no evidence and just several jumps that OP is making to come to that conclusion, then I can almost understand the boss laughing it off. If someone came to me claiming that there was a sex club going on, but had nothing for me to work off of except people quacking I would think it was a joke. Especially after reading all of those notes in this letter of “maybe I’m reading too much into this?”
    What does concern me here is that because of the big hoopla being made about the supposed club, the two offenders that were caught doing the dirty were not addressed.

  62. Cath in Canada

    So here’s a possibility that I don’t think has been raised yet: the original incident in the copier room was a one-off, and everything else is a joke at the OP’s expense.

    In the original letter, OP said she walked in on the couple on the sofa in the copier room, and then:

    “That same day, after my team had left, I was wrapping up and putting a meeting agenda on each of their desks for our meeting the next day. Out in broad daylight on the guys desk (one of the employees I had caught in the printing room) was a piece of paper at the top that said “Duck Club.” Underneath it, it had a list of locations of places in and around the office followed by “points.” 25 points – president’s desk, 10 points – car in the parking lot, 20 points – copier room, etc.”

    So… what if the couple boinking in the copier room was a one-off? But the guy’s buddies heard about OP walking in and thought it was hilarious. They typed and printed the “score sheet” and left it on their buddy’s desk as a joke for him – “let’s see if you can get away with something even more outrageous!” After OP found the score sheet, they decided to perpetuate the joke and see if they could get OP to keep believing more and more outrageous things.

    All the OP has actually seen with her own eyes was the original incident and the score sheet – everything else (the cars, the condoms) was told to her by someone else.

    Just a thought… and it doesn’t explain the quacking. But maybe they’re Anaheim fans or something.

  63. Saurs

    Provided you believe this is real*: is there anything less erotic than someone quacking at you? Are hand gestures involved?

    *gross, coercive, gross, gross

  64. Nanc

    Real or not? At this point I don’t know. However, let me put on my crabby old lady pants and don the coordinating hat, gloves and pearls and say, in my old-fashioned, long-career experience world: Unless you were specifically hired into a job where your stated job duties include having sex with co-workers/clients in many ways, means, places and tracking said progress, it is never, ever, appropriate to have sex in the workplace!

  65. Jeff from Accounting

    The letter-writer went to her manager instead of the spy camera store? I am disappoint.

  66. Nutella Fitzgerald

    363 comments and no one’s pointed out the boss’s boss reacted in quite a cavalier way. You’d almost say it was like water off a duck’s back.

  67. Dawn88

    I think we’ve been punked. Yet in my many years, I do remember some wacky stuff…

    Back in the 80s, my first job in the San Francisco Bay Area (in commercial real estate development) had the young “whippersnapper” brokers openly snorting and sharing lines of cocaine on their desks, during work. In an office with 80 people working, no less! I couldn’t believe it myself…hard drugs out in the open, like cocktails? That’s 10 years in jail, last time I looked.

    As a commercial Property Manager for years, the various on-site maintenance guys got caught sleeping with women in their closet offices, sleeping on the job, sexual harassment of tenants in various forms…file boxes filled with porno under their desks, liquor and drugs, stolen items, you name it.

    As far as the tampon machine, all it takes is a key to open it and change the items dispensed in the stacker…not hard.

    One guy got fired and was discovered months later in the men’s room, bathing in the sink…and apparently had been living/sleeping in the supply closet, with nowhere else to go.

    What got me was the OP’s manager in denial. He’s in on it, or a total idiot. Sorry folks, in big urban areas you have some disgusting behaviors….office buildings are too big and complex to be checking constantly….I was too busy doing my work.

    1. OldAdmin

      It also might be the OP overinterpreting things, as in actually finding the miscreant couple in the copier room, and then going off a wacky tangent, imaging conspiracy theories and duck clubs… and the boss may well have made fun of her by quacking back! Pulling her leg, mocking her, yanking her strings, as it were. I’ve had bosses like that.

      That being said, I *have* seen a lot of nutty stuff in offices:
      Tomfoolery and intercourse all over the office – including my boss boasting to me he had “taken the intern”… under my desk while I was out. Intercourse in the car on the company lot/ in the company garage… many times over.
      Drugs? Oh yes. Drugs in the company bathroom many times in different places (and getting caught by the secretary inadvertantly walking in), even traces on desks.
      Wacky, cocaine driven plans by a small company owner to set up the Leather Pride flag on his desk and institute, ahem, “discipline” in the workforce.
      I’ve seen so much madness I will believe a duck club story – just not this one.

    1. GigglyPuff

      HAHAHAHAHAHA, sorry I just love that. The imagery of someone reading this and not knowing…just rofl

  68. NatKP

    Ehh…
    While all of this is wildly inappropriate, I can believe it all except for the “condom dispenser”.

    Really, from what I can read in the letters and comments, no one knows the OP’s industry. It may seem biased, but it cant be too “professional” if they are 10-12 fresh out of college 22 year olds on the same team. Maybe this is the type of company where the culture is very lax. It is entirely possible that they are doing their job to a high level of performance. I have worked in offices and temp jobs, where a high level isn’t really unattainable with very minimal effort. As another commenter pointed out, if this is a game, how long do you really need to “score”? That is probably part of the intrigue and fun about it. 15 minutes, in and out! (ha) It would take longer to have a chat about last nights Scandal episode.

    Also, to the point of the Big Boss, either he is involved or he thinks the whole thing is asinine; which I can’t say I wouldn’t at least cross my mind if I were in his position.

    As far as the car, the OP never said that people were caught in the car, or that the car was “broken” into. It may be hard to believe but people leave their cars unlocked a lot more frequently than probably you or I. Also, that was one person saying that about one instance with their car. Its probably completely unrelated to the supposed club.

    One other thing, the OP stated that she is the supervisor of these people, and she is maybe 10 years old than they are, putting her in her early 30s. I would assume that because of what seems to be her timid nature (as I can tell in the letters) she wants them to like her and probably doesn’t really want to cause any trouble for them. Once again, depending on the industry it could really make sense. (NO OFFENSE at all to you OP)

    Really, if you take out the sex and replace it with bad coaching, unruly secretary, ageist/sexist boss, etc. It sounds like any other AAM letter. Sometimes we get so outraged with sex that we miss the bigger picture.

    Once again, not at all saying that this situation is completely screwed up.

    Last thing, thanks Michael ^^^ for pointing out DUCK club…it all makes sense now…ha

  69. Mickey Q

    When is the last time you saw a tampon dispenser in an office bathroom? And then someone managed to get it open and put condoms in that just drop out when you turn the handle? FAKE.

    1. Malissa

      There was a tampon dispenser at my last job and it was filed by an employee. So yeah, that part could happen.

  70. Anonylicious

    I call fowl on this story. At the very least, I bet it’s been exaggerated.

    I could totally believe the core of it: that she walked in on some coworkers having sex. I could even believe that there was a weird sex club in her office. But there’s just too many weird additional details and a bunch of added, unnecessary details is a hallmark of a bad lie.

  71. NinaK

    OP: if you are committed to staying at this company, can you at least post a sign at your desk that says:

    “Please DO NOT feed the ducks”?

    Ewww. just …imagine? gag!

  72. schnapps

    Or put some Duck brand Duct Tape in the supply closet with a note “Duck tape: for when your duck has a quack”

  73. Question Mark

    “I am also happy to say that I can now speak to the two I caught in the act without blushing now and we’ve moved on, even though nothing was ever said verbally about it.”

    Are you kidding me? You walked in on 2 of your employees having sex at work and you never once addressed it? You are just pretending like it never happened? You are sending the message to them (and ultimately to all others in the gross little club) that you are cool with it. All of it.

  74. CreationEdge

    I read the update less as fiction and more as OP trying to juice it up for us readers. Extra details they “might be reading too much into” seemed like a spin for our enjoyment, which is why they feel out of place.

    I think we also miss a lot of context and content for what happened in the big boss room. OP said she talked to her direct supervisor about issue and they talked about car stuff, but was all of that brought up to the big boss? In the same detail with the supervisor’s full support?

    If all I had to go on was people quacking and a nameless list, I wouldn’t take it very seriously. The coupling couple caught in coitus should have been handled, but that’s all there is to go on. Everything else is 100% Grade A Speculation.

    I also read the boss quacking as a “I’m mocking your ridiculous idea because I’m a jerk” rather than a *wink wink* moment.

  75. Jacob Louie

    Two issues about allowing a sex club to exist come to mind (perhaps others have already mentioned these):

    1. Are anyone’s boundaries being violated? Is there (peer) pressure for participants into doing something they don’t want to do (and aren’t required to do by work)? Any signs of bullying?

    2. If the boss’s boss is a participant, that’s a huge power imbalance that can put more pressure on junior participants (see #1). Only the consequence for not complying can be far greater than bullying.

  76. HR

    I would think that since this practice is acceptable in the office, it could appear to be a requirement or expectation for new employees thereby creating a very plausible scenario where people could be sexually harassed. Or, if one current participant decides she or he doesn’t want to quack anymore but people keep quacking. Such a dangerous situation. The manager that wrote in, the supervisor, and the supervisor’s supervisor, with full knowledge of this behavior, allowed the harassment to continue.

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