my part-time job wants me to work more days — am I being unreasonable in saying no?

A reader writes:

I work two part-time jobs. I have been at Job #1 almost a year, and I work Tuesdays/Thursdays. At Job #2, where I’ve been for a month, I am a floating admin between a few of their centers. I was explicitly told this job was three days a week, and my schedule there so far has been Wednesday/Friday/Saturday.

Recently, my boss at Job #2 asked me if I could work Mondays as well. This is not ideal for me, because then my only day off would be Sunday. So I told her that, unfortunately, I could not work Mondays. She seemed upset and stressed, and said, “But you don’t work Mondays at your other job, right? You’re free on Mondays!” I answered that because I work Saturdays, I’d prefer to not work Mondays as well, since it is important to me to have a weekend. Maybe that was a faux pas, I don’t know.

Since then my boss has asked, multiple times, “You sure you’re planning to stay at Job #1?” in kind of a snide tone, or told me “Let me know if you quit that other job.” She makes these comments when trying to schedule things.

I just got an email from a higher-up manager asking to confirm my schedule and asking specifically about my Monday availability. I told them that I was unavailable Mondays.

Am I being unreasonable in wanting to keep my Mondays free? I like camping, so having two days off is important to me. I know that because I am part-time I can’t expect them to prioritize my days off or anything. But I’m also surprised they want to add a fourth day. I was told (verbally) that the job was three days a week. They didn’t mention weekend work when I was hired so I assumed it would be weekdays.

Another concern is that my role was described to me as very admin/secretarial, but I am being asked now to go “marketing,” which means going to shopping centers and give out flyers for our business, and getting interested people’s contact info to call them to set up informational meetings. My boss showed me how she does this and it is very pushy and demanding. They gave me a Meyers Briggs personality test and because of that test, they believe I could be good at sales/marketing if I wanted to be. This is very stressful because, personality tests aside, I do feel I genuinely struggle with this. I do not like pushing people to buy a service they are clearly uninterested in. But my boss is under a lot of pressure to increase sales since her center is not doing well.

That being said, I am good at other parts of my job! I have made the center more organized since I started there. I wish I could focus on the administrative side of things. Is it reasonable of me to ask her to let me off the hook from marketing?

The company is very intense; it is sales-focused and growing. The center directors frequently work six days a week for 12 hours a day. My not wanting to work Mondays and being uncomfortable with marketing is not in line with the company culture. Am I actually unreasonable in these requests?

Nope.

But that doesn’t mean that they can’t decide that their needs have changed and that they need part of your job to be working Sundays and/or “marketing.” It’s possible that either or both of those things could be the case.

However, it’s perfectly reasonable for you to decide you’re not interested in either of those things and say that clearly and politely.

On the scheduling, I’d say this: “I know you’ve asked me a few times about working on Mondays. It’s really not something that’s possible for me, and I want to make sure that won’t be a problem. Can we stick with the three days a week we agreed to originally?”

If she says no, that at this point they really need the person in your role to add a fourth day, then you can decide at that point whether you’re willing to do it or not, if the job depends on it. But I bet that it doesn’t and that she’s just hoping you’ll agree if she asks enough — and that telling her clearly and firmly that this is not something you’re up for will stop it.

On the expansion of your role to include passing out flyers and calling people to set up informational meetings, I’d address that head-on too. Say something like this: “My understanding when I took the job was that it was heavily administrative and didn’t include marketing work. To be honest, marketing isn’t work that I’d like to do, and I wouldn’t have taken a position that included much of it. Is is possible for me to continue focusing solely on the admin work, like we originally talked about?”

You might hear that no, your role does need to include this stuff. But even that will be helpful, since it will give you more information and at that point you can decide if you want the job under those conditions or not.

For what it’s worth, using your Myers Briggs results to push you into this is silly. It doesn’t really matter if you could be good at the work if you wanted to; the relevant question is whether you want to or not. If you don’t, that’s your prerogative, just as it’s theirs to decide that they do need that.

In any case, start by talking about all of this forthrightly. Often this conversation will lead to them realizing that they’d like you to do something but it’s not a requirement if you clearly state that you’re not interested. Other times, it may not. But this type of conversation is always a reasonable one to have — and it’s much easier when you approach it as “here are my needs and interests; tell me yours, and we can collaboratively figure out whether they line up well enough.”

{ 237 comments… read them below }

  1. Katie the Fed*

    OP, this has “bad fit” written all over it. The fact that this one place isn’t doing well, they’re already pushing you to change your terms of employment, take on different responsibilities, etc. I would start looking for a new job – I don’t see this trending in a good direction.

    1. OP*

      Yeah. It’s good to know other people get weird vibes from this. The hiring process was also kind of strange and I had to sign a lunch break waiver. One was a standard 6-hour waiver, the other was one that allowed them to get corporate dispensation to remove my break altogether. I know is perfectly legal and standard in many industries but it’s not very kind. Maybe I’ll think about looking for other work.

      1. Paige Turner*

        I’ve never heard of this! Hope you can work something out or find something new.

      2. Not So NewReader*

        What? You can sign away your lunch break? I have never heard of such a thing. I am seeing more and more red flags here.

        1. OP*

          Yes! Normally your workplace has to give you a lunch break after 5 hours, but it’s very legal to waive your lunch break so that you don’t take it until 6 hours or more. Very common for nurses to sign that. What gives me pause is that they can get corporate dispensation to remove my break altogether in case of a really busy day. There are many days where I don’t eat till 3 or so, after coming in at 9am. Needless to say the work culture is very “eat at your desk while answering email” and they are surprised when I want to leave the buildig during my lunch.

          1. MsM*

            Wow. Well, that certainly explains a lot about why they don’t see why you’d need two days to yourself even if one of those days isn’t everyone else’s standard weekend. I’d put my foot down and start job-hunting if I were you.

            1. OP*

              California!

              I was under the impression mean break waivers are legal and common practice in many industries.

              The sketchy part for me is that they can get corporate to waive my lunch break for a full 8 hour day if they give me a 24 hour notice. Now I wish I had a copy of the form I signed.

              1. Ask a Manager* Post author

                Okay, California requires an unpaid, off-duty meal period of at least 30 minutes if you work five hours or more. “When a work period of not more than six hours will complete the day’s work, the meal period may be waived by mutual consent of the employer and the employee.”

                “Employers must also provide a second meal break of no fewer than 30 minutes for all workdays on which an employee works more than 10 hours. The second meal break must be provided no later than the end of an employee’s 10th hour of work. An employee can waive the second meal period only if all of the following conditions are met:
                The total hours worked on that workday are not more than 12.
                The employer and the employee mutually consent.
                The first meal break of the workday was not waived.”

                Are they in compliance with that?

                1. OP*

                  I am not sure. I sometimes go till 3 or 3:30, after starting at 9, without eating because my boss is in tons of meetings with clients and I have to answer phones and handle walk ins. I get lunch when her schedule calms down.

                  I am also supposed to have a 15 minute unpaid break I think. I can hardly imagine telling my boss I’m going for a break though.

                  They have never taken away my lunch entirely, although the form gives them the right to do so.

                2. Katie the Fed*

                  The form does NOT give them the legal right to take away your break if you work more than 6 hours. There are some rights you can’t sign away (I said the same thing in yesterday’s dog thread). Even if you agree to it, they still have to comply with the law.

                3. ineloquent*

                  OP, in order for your workplace to be in compliance with the waiver clause, it seems that you’d have to be done with your shift no later than 3. IANAL, but it sounds like they’re probably not being compliant.

                4. IWorkInSockFeet*

                  OP, You may want to talk to a California Employment Rights Attorney regarding these so-called waivers. As someone else already pointed out, these waivers are illegal and unenforceable.

                5. HRGruntInCalifornia*

                  I would suggest contacting the Department of Labor Standards Enforcement to file a wage violations claim before you contact an attorney; they can look into wage violations such as this. As AAM said, they are NOT in compliance if they make you go six hours without a meal break if you work more than six hours. You’re due quite a few missed meal premiums at the very least.

          2. Elizabeth West*

            Ugh. This job sucks and your boss sucks. Start looking.

            As for the days off (I don’t work Saturdays but at this job I don’t have to), I just say I have personal commitments that day. I don’t say what they are. No one would need to know or even cares that I’m committed to skating lessons or watching cartoons until noon and then going to get my brows waxed. :)

            1. Artemesia*

              This. No JADE — justify, argue, defend, explain. I have personal commitments that day. They don’t own your life. There are some types of jobs where you do have to be on call but this isn’t one of them. This is simply about the convenience of yanking you around rather than dealing with their issues themselves.

          3. BRR*

            I’m not sure where you are but if the law is requiring a break you can’t sign your right away for it. If it’s company policy I imagine you can. But again, you can’t sign away your legal right to something if it’s a government law.

          4. M.*

            When I worked very briefly at a supermarket chain they had me do this as well. They said that because it can get very busy sometimes we can’t take breaks because we have to wait on customers (I was hired to be a deli clerk) and this was during the time when the Demoulas/Market Basket boycott thing was happening. I was never outright told I couldn’t take my breaks, and the assistant department manager ALWAYS made sure I took my breaks, but the department manager would sometimes hassle us about it. I just thought it was weird because all other retail jobs I’d worked made sure that there was coverage so everyone could take breaks on time.

      3. Steve G*

        Wait, it’s legal in the USA to sign away your rights to breaks? I know little about laws, but I would think that there is some legal concept that you can’t ask someone to sign away their right to something that a law by a higher authority grants them. Legal help please!

        1. NDQ*

          I’ve never heard of this either. The best part is, if it’s illegal, they actually got it in writing. I cannot wait to hear more about this. It also sounds like the OP was coerced into signing these “standard” waivers. They don’t sound standard at all.

          NDQ

          1. eplawyer*

            I’ve never heard this either. And if it is a waiver of a legal right, was OP given a chance to seek legal counsel? Wonder what it says about that?

          2. OP*

            I don’t know if I would say coerced. The form was given to me as part of my new hire paperwork along with tax stuff.

            I could have asked questions but it was a rushed environment. My other job walked me through the paperwork page by page when I was hired but I don’t know if that’s normal.

            Come to think of it I also had to ask multiple people and ultimately email my boss’s boss in order to get the company handbook, so I could know about time off policies and dress code. Typing it out like this it all sounds like many small red flags coming together.

            1. Not So NewReader*

              Rushing can be a method of coercion. This technique is also used in slimy loan agreements, pushy sales and so on.

              1. Jader*

                So true. My Mom won a lawsuit partially based on the fact that she was rushed while signing a waiver, thus making it void. Not exactly the same of course but similar.

            2. EB*

              IANAL

              California law state that nonexempt employees need a 10 minute paid rest break for every four hours work (CA even provides a possible timetable for the break). If you do not get your breaks you are entitled to 1 hour of pay for each day your right is violated. If you do not get that extra hour of pay, you can file a wage claim with the Division of Labor Standards Enforcement for it. From what you have said, they seem to owe you some backpay for missing your breaks and/or missing meal periods when you work over 6 hrs per day (There is a similar fine for each time you work from 9-3:30 violating the “work less than 6 hour rule” for meal breaks).

              From the Department of Industrial Relations website on Rest Periods/Lactation Accommodation (the meal break law has been previously quoted by Allison):
              “In California, the Industrial Welfare Commission Wage Orders require that employers must authorize and permit nonexempt employees to take a rest period that must, insofar as practicable, be taken in the middle of each work period. The rest period is based on the total hours worked daily and must be at the minimum rate of a net ten consecutive minutes for each four hour work period, or major fraction thereof.
              …..If an employer fails to provide an employee a rest period in accordance with an applicable IWC Order, the employer shall pay the employee one additional hour of pay at the employee’s regular rate of pay for each workday that the rest period is not provided

              1. OP*

                I am not being proactive in asking for breaks, though. They just .. aren’t giving them to me. I am not sure how to fit a break in around the demands of being available to customers, because my boss has so many meetings.

                1. ineloquent*

                  I’m not seeing anything in that text that puts the onus on the employee, OP. Maybe call your Department of Labor?

                2. eplawyer*

                  Why are you so obsessed about how hard your boss is working? Not your circus, not your monkeys. If your boss has a lot of meetings — that is her problem. You get your breaks regardless of HER workload.

                  Just as an aside, is everyone working 10-12 hour days really working hard because there is that much to do or because they are just inefficient? Work smarter not harder.

                  I would also echo everyone else. There are so many red flags you need to bail on this place ASAP. Find another part time job and take it.

                3. BRR*

                  Maybe at the start of your day ask, “what time would you like me to take my lunch today?”

                  When your boss mentions the wavier or illegal timing say “I think we’re supposed to schedule my lunch within X hours of my start time by California law.”

                  If the wavier comes up, “Unfortunately I can’t sign away something that’s the law. I wouldn’t want the company to get in trouble.”

          3. Otter box*

            I had a friend who worked at a very prominent big box store in the U.S. and she was routinely required to sign away her right to a lunch anytime her managers decided it was too busy to let her eat. This was in Washington state. Needless to say she hated that place and left as soon as she could.

        2. Elysian*

          There are some things you can sign away your rights to, and other things you cannot. For example, you can sign away your right to sue someone about something when you sign a settlement agreement. You cannot sign away your right to receive overtime compensation if it is required under the Fair Labor Standards Act. Whether or not this type of agreement is legal would depend on where it is is – since most US don’t require breaks at all, you could waive your right to them in most places.

      4. YandO*

        I don’t have a lunch break. I work 8 hours straight.

        When I started, they told me “This is a good task to do while you eat”

        I love my small business in a state that doe snot require breaks job. I just love it.

    2. Stranger than fiction*

      I don’t either just by manager’s attitude and this ” marketing” thing is really sales/appointment setting ick

        1. LBK*

          You kind of are, though. You’re not completing the sales transaction but if you’re expected to be convincing people to use your products, you’re selling those products. Marketing would be creating the flyers to distribute and figuring out the best place to hand them out.

      1. Persephone Mulberry*

        A LOT of places like to call their handing-out-flyers jobs “entry level marketing.” I guess technically it falls under the umbrella of marketing because it’s promoting the product/service, but yeah, it’s annoying.

    3. cardiganed librarian*

      Absolutely. And I would not quit my other job because this one looks like it could blow up on you any time.

  2. Mike C.*

    Using MB in this manner outside of freshman highschool “what kind of careers should I consider looking at” exercises is incredibly silly. That and there’s nothing worse than being taken away from what you’re actually good at to do something incredibly stupid because the owner/manager doesn’t want to use someone who is actually a professional at whatever task it is – marketing, design, maintenance, etc.

    “Here, just make a website, it’s easy!”
    “Grab a phone, you’re going to start cold calling potential businesses!”
    “Update our logo!”

    1. TotesMaGoats*

      Exactly. Just because I’ve got the right mix of letters to make me good at business development doesn’t mean that I am or that I want to do it. For what it’s worth, I am good at it but that’s because I don’t do it the way most BD people do it. But I don’t LIKE doing it. Main reason I left OldJob. What was all about student services was quickly turning in all BD.

    2. OP*

      I feel for my boss though, our center is really is struggling, and for reasons that aren’t entirely her fault (for example, before I was hired, she had no assistant, which is insane given her workload). That is also why she keeps asking me if I can work more.

      1. College Career Counselor*

        That may well be true, but it’s not incumbent upon YOU to take up the slack for this company’s poor planning/staffing (without agreeing to a change in hours/duties/pay/benefits/whatever).

        I also give the side-eye to using Myers-Briggs in this manner.

      2. The IT Manager*

        Given this information, it may be possible that they need someone who can work 4 days or maybe even 5 days – full time. If that’s the case it may not be the right job for you assuming you don’t want to leave your other part time job.

        However I do wonder if it’s a funding issue; maybe there’s no way they can fund a full time position. Maybe they can only occasionally pay for a 4-day a week part timer. Maybe now that you’re there and making such a difference they realize they want you there more. None of that means that you have give off one day of your two day weekend to support their need.

      3. Kyrielle*

        But the funding, or lack of funding; the management mistakes, or lack of management mistakes; your manager’s inability to recognize that having the *right* person doing a task rather than *any* person doing a task will improve productivity and thus the overall situation…none of these are your problem.

        Not unless you choose to accept them, and I wouldn’t, in your shoes.

        1. JMegan*

          none of these are your problem. Not unless you choose to accept them, and I wouldn’t, in your shoes.

          This.

      4. OP*

        Everyone’s comments here are helpful. The center is not meeting sales targets, but that isn’t on me

        1. OP*

          Even with the “marketing” all I can do is get leads and I honestly wonder how effective this really is

          1. MsM*

            Not very, if they don’t have the bandwidth to actually follow up on those leads. (Or if they’re hoping to dump that on you as well.)

          2. Gene*

            Hand me a flyer at a shopping center and it has the same fate that the cards the porn-slappers in Vegas hand to me, next trash can without even looking at it.

            If this is your boss’s marketing plan, no wonder she isn’t meeting goals.

            1. Mike C.*

              Those people are scary effective at handing out porn though! I remember while visiting a few years ago that I crossed a street while chatting with some friends and once I was on the other side I looked down and my hands were just filled with porn! It was crazy!

    3. little class act*

      I’m even dubious about using MB for recommending paths to high school students. For one, to get an accurate score you have to be self aware, and what many people think they’re like as teenagers may not be true or true long term. Second, it’s meant to evaluate your cognitive preferences, and while that may correspond with the traits needed to excel in certain types of jobs/fields, if you don’t like a particular job/field that others push you towards because of your score, it may not pan out for a successful and fulfilling long term (a true MB assessment will even get into the breakdown of your score and point out where you may even have outlier/”out of type” preferences, which definitely make you different than someone else of your 4 letter type)

      I consistently score in my adult life thus far as an ENTP, which does fit me and my strengths, and does align with what I enjoy doing and want to continue growing within (namely where I have authority and autonomy to make things better). But in high school my boyfriend’s father had me take it because he was a big believer in it and generally philosophically curious in discussing the big questions with us, and I scored as an INFJ, which was consistent with the image of what I thought I was/wanted to be at that time. Glad no one forced me to towards any of the counselor type jobs, because while I could (heck I’m that way with my friends), I’d loathe it as a job and would just be asking for frustration.

      1. M-C*

        We’ve had this conversation about MB before. I recommended cheating, which is very easy if you know what they’re looking for. People were stunned :-). But come on, MB is about as accurate as.. say astrology :-). So please OP, dig a bit and see what answers would have gotten you out of this kind of bind, so you don’t get caught at it again. My take on it would be to emphasize the introvert side a bit to avoid the whole hard-sell thing..

  3. AnnieNonymous*

    OP is reasonable in saying no to these requests, However, I’d encourage her to change her stance on “needing a weekend,” at least until she consolidates to one full-time job. Milennials don’t tend to have proper weekends; even people with full-time jobs take on side work sometimes. I mention this because when I landed a M-F 9-5 job, I thought it would be a boon to my social life, and I was disappointed to find out that none of my friends had this same schedule. Generally speaking, I don’t think it’s the best move to turn down hours on a day that your already have free, especially if those hours would bring you up to full-time status and allow you to quit the other job. Would you be open to working alternating Mondays?

    1. Just Another Techie*

      I entirely disagree. People fought really hard for a five day work week a century ago. It was a hard-won right, and we shouldn’t let that slip, because time off is vitally important, both for work productivity and for your emotional and physical health. Study after study has shown that humans need rest time to be healthy. By all means, work yourself into an early grave if that’s what you have to do to survive, but from the sound of it, OP doesn’t need the money that a sixth workday would bring her.

      1. PlainJane*

        +1000. Life is about more than work. If working 6-day weeks isn’t a financial necessity, then don’t. It isn’t healthy, and there’s no prize at the end of our run on this planet for doing the most work.

        1. Just Another Techie*

          Exactly. I really don’t like the way my generation has turned the 24-7 hustle into something laudable or somehow morally superior to working a sane number of hours. Just because our parents went and effed up the economy to the point where most of us have to patch together three or four part time jobs or side gigs for a hundred or more hours a week just to survive doesn’t mean that’s a good thing. We work to live, not the other way around.

          1. Katie the Fed*

            it’s because wages are low and stagnant. People are stringing together multiple jobs just to have the same relative purchasing power their parents did in 9-5 jobs.

            1. Natalie*

              And there are people with a vested interest in promoting the idea that working harder and not being so “entitled” would FIX EVERYTHING. Suuuure.

          2. BRR*

            And people who don’t work smartly. Staying until 8 or 9 but being on facebook isn’t working.

        2. Marissa*

          Agreed. Also, Sunday is probably the worst day of the week to only have one day off. So many businesses may be closed or have shorter hours. How will the OP reasonably run all of her household errands for the week on a Sunday?

          1. Stranger than fiction*

            Wait, is Op working full 8 hour days though? I got the impression they were 6 hr shifts

              1. EB*

                wow, then per the California government website if you work 8 hours you need 2 paid rest breaks (preferably in the middle of each 4 hour period) and a meal break (to occur before hour 5). If they don’t give it to you, you need to be compensated. This is not something you can sign away BTW.

                INAL

      2. AnnieNonymous*

        Well there’s a difference between things that happened 100 years ago and the current reality. My thought was that if they really want someone who’ll work 4 days a week and take on additional work, the OP will risk losing that job. There are a lot of people out there looking for jobs that are begging them to work more paid hours. If she’s in a job that’s of the “we just need a body in a chair” variety, it wouldn’t be the best move to say no with such aplomb. Another reality is that admin jobs are slowly going by the wayside, so it wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world to be trained in different areas. She’s free to do whatever she wants, but I think it’s very risky to decline the extra work when so many other applicants would jump to do it. If this were a full-time job that didn’t seem so entry-level, I would be singing another tune, but I don’t think the OP can maintain her current stance and expect to keep her job for much longer, especially since she’s only been there 1 month.

        1. Just Another Techie*

          But they advertised the job as a 3-day-a-week job, and that was the understanding they had with OP when she was hired. I really don’t think she’s in danger of losing her job if she says no, and if they do fire her, it’s both completely unreasonable of them and she’s probably better off not working for them anyway.

        2. Traveler*

          100 years ago workers were easily replaced, too. You’re making the same argument a lot of people made back then, so I don’t think its changed all that much.

        3. Mike C.*

          One 100 years ago workers in the United States were being beaten and gunned down by Pinkertons for wanting decent wages, safety rules and a weekend. This isn’t some luxury to be taken lightly, people died for this.

          1. Anna the Accounting Student*

            Heck, a hundred years ago people could be killed at work simply because their employers did not follow simple fire safety guidelines! The Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire is by far the most famous such incident and it killed close to a hundred and fifty people, but in a lot of ways safety concerns were ignored, even by 1911 standards.

        4. Sadsack*

          OP’s current reality is that she wants two consecutive days off to do what she enjoys doing. I don’t understand the point of questioning her reasoning.

        5. neverjaunty*

          You know, I’ve heard the “you better do X, even if you don’t like it, because if you don’t, they’ll find somebody who will” advice used to shame women who balked at doing something they didn’t want but their boyfriend insisted on, and it’s equally terrible logic there, too.

        6. Underemployeed Erin*

          They are going to have a hard time finding people who are willing to reliably work on Saturdays.

        7. Marcela*

          The problem with arguments like this is that if all of us accept whatever our employer wants just because otherwise they would replace us, is that promotes abuse, not decent work conditions. Not all employers are bad employers, but there is no reason to accept whatever condition they want to impose you, just because. Besides, who are we to tell OP “one day is enough rest”? Really? OP knows her needs, either in the time she needs for rest or that she doesn’t need the extra money from working Mondays.

      3. OfficePrincess*

        Exactly. When I find myself with a 6 (or sometimes 7) day week, even if one of those days is just a half day, I’m completely useless for most of the next week. At one point, I was working two jobs (1 full time, 1 part time) out of necessity and wound up having to work 19 days straight. I distinctly remember walking into Subway and staring at the menu board not comprehending anything and then apologizing to the somewhat terrified clerk at day 17. And that is when my boss for the second job realized that I wasn’t kidding when I said he could have me Saturday OR Sunday but NOT BOTH.

        1. Ezri*

          I’m a mess when I have to work over the weekend – even though I can log in from home, it throws me off my whole day to be in ‘work mode’ for a few hours. Don’t get me wrong, I can do it and I’ve worked seven-day weeks when it was financially necessary. But it’s definitely not a good thing and it was always harder for me to focus at work without any down time.

          1. Just Another Techie*

            Same. I work in an industry that occassionally (eg, every 12-18 months) have huge crunches where it’s all hands on deck for 10 or more hours a day for a couple weeks. I’m expected to at least log in from home to monitor things for 2-3 hours (more if something has gone wrong and needs to be fixed) on Saturdays and Sundays. It leaves me totally wrecked, even when I’m working from my couch in my cozy pajamas. Pretty much the entire department works at half-productivity or less for a month or two after a big push like that. It sucks, and no one should work those kinds of hours on a regular basis if they at all can avoid it.

        2. Liane*

          Yes! Even when you love-love-love both jobs it is hard. When I started as a home-based transcription editor it was a few hours Saturdays & Sundays very early in the morning. At the same time, I was also often doing essay scoring projects that were each M-F, 7 hrs/day for 1-2 months at a time, in the company offices. These are 2 of the best jobs I have ever had and I happily would go back to either one if I was still living in OldState.
          BUT when I had a scoring project, it was hard to go to work *every day of the week* even though 2 of those days were less than half a day each and I could work in PJs if I wanted to.

        3. Xarcady*

          Not having a day off for weeks does strange things to your brain. I’m currently underemployed, after having been laid off. Twenty hours a week in a retail job, 35-40 hours a week temping. Except for when both jobs asked me to work more hours, so I was averaging 68-72 hour weeks. The retail job loves to give me both Saturday and Sunday shifts. I went three months without a day off earlier this year, because I simply needed the money.

          It’s the day off that really counts. I’ve had a single job before that required the occasional 65-70 hour week and I could deal with it. But not week after week without a day off.

          I was a wreck. Coming home and falling into bed. Bills were getting paid late because I just forgot about them. Food shopping and laundry took up most of my free time. There was no down time at all.

          When the temp agency had no work for me for a week, I was thrilled. Spent the first two days curled up binge-watching Netflix, because I was incapable of doing anything else but just sitting there.

          Now, even though I need the money, I make sure I get one complete day off every two or three weeks, just to preserve my sanity.

      4. OP*

        Thank you! And thank you to everyone in this thread for this awesome discussion of work/life balance and workers’ rights. I was starting to feel crazy or like an entitled Millenial for wanting the weekends. While I understand that the current economy is rough and many people are working 6-7 days a week, that’s not a position I want to be in unless it is either temporary or unless I really do need the money.

        1. I'm a Little Teapot*

          The “entitled Millennial” meme is, as Natalie noted above, promoted heavily by people with a really unpleasant agenda that involves rolling back all the gains that, as Mike C. said, people died for a hundred years ago. It’s harmful, offensive to people who’ve been really screwed by economic factors that aren’t their fault, and needs to die. So never, ever think of yourself that way. There’s nothing wrong with being “entitled” to reasonable things like a weekend.

          (The way the word “entitled” is constantly used to slap down less powerful people – and rarely used properly to describe the people who really do have everything and treat other people like garbage – is another rant I believe I’ve indulged in elsewhere on this site. It’s really the class, economic, and age-based version of calling someone uppity.)

        2. cardiganed librarian*

          There’s really no moral imperative either way. If you were desperate for money and had limited job options, I might encourage you to at least try working the four days a week until that company went under or you found something better. If that’s not the case, why not push for a weekend? Hell, there’s no shame in working less than full time if that’s what meets your needs.

          I was desperate for money and work last fall and I worked three jobs, all of them fairly limited in hours. I still was hardly working forty hours a week so it took me a while to figure out that one reason I was so irritable and crying all the time was that I had had two days without work from mid-October till the end of November.

      5. Yet another techie*

        I totally disagree with AnnieNonymous. Why would the OP want to work full-time for these nutcases? Letting go of the other part-time job would leave zie totally at the mercy of these lunch-skipping flyer-shoving jerks, and that would most certainly not be a good thing. I hope the OP is saving hir Monday’s in part so zie can job-hunt for a decent place..

        1. Prismatic Professional*

          Side note: Thanks for using gender neutral pronouns! :-) It makes me happy.

        2. OP*

          Yes, thanks for the pronouns! I was surprised by how everyone was using she/her pronouns (I do indeed use she/her pronouns though)

    2. Anie*

      Absolutely not. I worked 7 days a week (part time hours), for about 6 years. I quit my 3rd job so I could have Sundays off. Right now I have a M, W,Th,F job and a Tu, Sat job. It is a lot of freaking work and I often wish for a full weekend. I rarely am off at the same time as friends and it is IMPOSSIBLE to schedule any kind over overnight trip. Even a day trip leaves me with no extra day for relaxing afterword.

      AND! And, every now and then my Tu, Sat job asks me to work Sunday. It’s always a hard no. Seriously, you give them an inch–a once in a while Monday–and then it’ll be all Mondays and why not and blah blah.

      There’s also no point in quitting one of the jobs in order to take 1 extra day at the other. It’s just a pay cut.

      1. Paige Turner*

        Yes, every time I’ve agreed to work on my (only!) day off one time to help out, the next thing I know, I’m getting scheduled for that day again the next week, or having my availability completely ignored. It sucks.

        1. RMRIC0*

          I’ve had a few jobs that tried to ignore my stated availability altogether, like I was a high school student and they were trying to put me on early afternoons and they somehow managed to keep forgetting that.

    3. Ad Astra*

      My first job out of college had hours like 3:30 p.m. to 12:30 a.m., Friday through Tuesday. All my friends had normal 8-5 hours and I felt totally left out, so it sounds like we had opposite experiences.

      I get that many people, especially young people, work nontraditional hours these days. But a lot of people really value their weekends, and that’s a very reasonable priority. I especially think it’s a bad idea to commit to working six days a week if you don’t absolutely have to.

    4. Bend & Snap*

      I don’t think we should be shaming the OP into a 6-day work week. It’s entirely understandable for her to want to take a “weekend” and not commit to only 4 days off a month.

    5. OP*

      If they could give me a consistent full time schedule I’d consider quitting my other job, but I don’t think they can. I also like my other job a lot, which complicates things.

      1. RMRIC0*

        And I’d imagine even if they could give you more hours, you’d spend a lot of it doing the part you hate.

    6. Sunflower*

      People often take on additional work because it benefits them. There seems to be zero benefits to OP doing this. Doesn’t seem like she needs the extra money and it doesn’t sound like her doing it is going to move her up(or maybe she doesn’t want to move up) in the company. They also want her to quit a job, doing what she actually wants to do, in order to do something she doesn’t want to do. I’m not seeing much benefit here.

    7. Artemesia*

      She knows the life she wants and it includes having some time off to go camping. Too many women are socialized into agreeing to say ‘just be open to working alternating Mondays’ although they absolutely don’t want to do this. Nothing is more useful than knowing what you want and insisting on it. If this job keeps growing in directions that are uncomfortable the answer is not to fold like a cheap card table but to start looking for something else.

      I think I would be pretty good at development; you couldn’t get me to do it with a tazer. That is not what I wanted to do. This is not what the OP wants to do.

    8. Allison*

      I disagree, I think it’s totally reasonable to insist on having those two days off, especially as the OP said they have a hobby that requires two days off in a row.

      I get that a lot of young people have crazy schedules that don’t fit the M-F mold, that doesn’t mean they have to embrace or settle for lifestyles that only give them 1 day off per week. Our generation may be young but we’re just as deserving of work-life balance as previous generations.

      1. Kyrielle*

        This. And if someone does need the money enough to take a 6-day week, or loves the work and hopes to move up with the company, or whatever – that’s their right, to make the decisions that work for *their* situation, needs, and interests. But not to impose it on someone else.

        Yes, OP has to weigh the fact that if this is a deal-breaker, it may come down to “six day weeks or lose one of the two jobs” – and then decide what the best course of action is. But that doesn’t mean OP is being unreasonable to assert their boundaries, their wishes, their needs. Just that if they conflict with the job’s after laying it bare, the question becomes “yield; yield and job search; quit and job search?”

    9. The IT Manager*

      I disagree. While I think going into so much detail with her employer was a bad move, it is perfectly acceptable to choose to string together two days off a week so that she can go camping or whatever else she wants to do. If someone prefers money to having a weekend off that’s fine, but don’t tell the LW she should give it up for the convenience of her employer.

      1. AnnieNonymous*

        I stated outright that I felt OP has every right to turn down these new stipulations. However, I feel like the answer to this question isn’t complete without mentioning that she may very well lose the job over this.

        1. Adam V*

          Which is why Alison said:

          > that doesn’t mean that they can’t decide that their needs have changed and that they need part of your job to be working Sundays and/or “marketing.”

          1. ReanaZ*

            Yeah, I think the difference is that Allison presented it as a neutral “this is a possible outcome; you need to make the right decision for you based on this information” and you’re presenting it as “this is a terrible thing that could happen and you should bend over backwards to accommodate them so this doesn’t happen”. One recognises the OP’s needs, desires, and decision-making as legitimate; the other, less so.

            1. neverjaunty*

              Exactly this. There’s such a difference between ‘here are the pros and cons’ vs. ‘you better do what they say or else’.

        2. M-C*

          Oh, maybe OP would lose this job over her resistance to these shitty work conditions. But I’d think it’d be more likely that she couldn’t lose it, as they must have tremendous turnover if they treat all their employees like this.

    10. Cassie*

      I’m working 7 days a week (and barely getting full time hours between the jobs I have, so also job hunting), and I’d just about kill someone for a schedule with one day a week off, so I applaud you for standing up for yourself here. I’m sure I’m terrible to my fiance and cat like this, and my house is a mess and I’m usually miserable, so I really can’t recommend this schedule. Even though it’s only part time hours most days, never getting a day to lie around is hard.

    11. Shannon*

      The OP doesn’t indicate that she wants or needs the extra money from taking an extra day of work. If anything, she indicates the opposite.

      It wouldn’t be unreasonable for the OP to ask if her boss were interested in taking her on full time, but, it really doesn’t sound like a great fit or a healthy business. There’s also the question of whether or not the OP would want to come on full time – she may like having two part time jobs for the variety it gives and may not need full time benefits.

      1. OP*

        Yes, I am very lucky. I am on my parents health insurance and my pay right now is enough at my jobs is enough for my needs plus some savings. And my other part time job is one I really enjoy, for a great company where the work is very relevant to the field I think I want to go into.

        1. Artemesia*

          I hope you are focused on finding a full time job that is in this field you are heading for and leveraging whatever connections you make through that work.

    12. Anonymousterical*

      Speaking as a “Millennial” who graduated college, went right into a small law firm, and was conditioned to expect 60 hour weeks, no-lunches-even-at-the-desk, and on-call weekends–and very respectfully–NO, this is bad advice. OP, stand your ground and have your weekend. This “live to work! And smile!” crap needs to end, full stop. Be the friend with a balanced work schedule and free weekends. It’s awesome.

  4. Interviewer*

    If Monday is such a sticking point for them, have you offered to swap Monday for Saturday? Still 3 days a week, and you’d have a true weekend.

  5. Ad Astra*

    Nobody in this situation is being totally unreasonable, but it does sound like this setup is no longer a good fit. I think the OP should start looking for a new part-time job.

    It is a little weird that they brought up the schedule change so many times, though. The whole point of a part-time position is that it’s not your first priority, so most companies/managers expect part-timers to have limited availability. Plus, four days a week is a lot for a part-time position.

    1. Paige Turner*

      Would four days/week put the OP over 30 hours a week, and therefore possibly eligible for benefits? Maybe not (I’ve worked for super small companies that weren’t required to offer benefits even to full-timers), but if so, that might be something that OP could use as a reason for why working another day wouldn’t work.

    2. College Career Counselor*

      The OP’s manager is making all these comments because it’s about “loyalty.” If you’re not working on the day in question, why wouldn’t you want more hours since you’re only part-time? And if you ARE working, but for someone else, then you should really want to leave that employer for this one. But, the OP’s manager needs to realize that s/he can’t have the flexibility of part time employees (with probably no benefits) AND the loyalty/willingness to increase the hours.

      1. RMRIC0*

        Anytime a job talks about loyalty (that isn’t say the Marines), i tend to start looking for a new place to work.

        1. Marcela*

          Anytime a job talks about loyalty, I wonder when (not if) I’m going to be screwed, since the loyalty is always expected to come from my side, not theirs.

      2. OP*

        Thank you, this is insightful. Loyalty is a big deal to them. My boss also asks me about my plans for the future, like my career and graduate school. It feels oddly probing and I think she is trying to determine my loyalty.

        1. Cautionary tail*

          Beware the “loyalty” trap. This means they are trying to guilt you into becoming one of their zombies. Reasonable companies don’t need to try to twist the brain of employees

          There are so many red flags here: Company/branch not doing well, people working 70+ hours per week with no end (i.e., not a project that will end at some point), the loyalty trap, etc. Having been in a company that did this, including “normal” work hours of 7-5, except that 7 was East Coast US time and 5 was west coast time = 11 hours per day, it’s time to get out.

          1. Not So NewReader*

            Totally agree. Healthy companies do not need to talk about loyalty because they know that they conduct themselves in a manner that inspires loyalty.

        2. Natalie*

          Where’s their loyalty? They hired you a very short time ago and they’re already trying to go back on their word, for no apparent reason (it’s not like someone just quit unexpectedly).

          IME, managers who talk a lot about loyalty don’t actually know how to engender it in their employees by being decent managers. They only know how to force it through fear and/or guilt.

        3. Anonymousterical*

          I worked for this kind of company. The catch? The only loyalty they expect is complete and total loyalty (a.k.a. obedience) from you–but they won’t give you an ounce in return. The “loyalty is everything! You’re family!” boss I had tried to cheat me out of a week of vacation pay and successfully cheated me out of 2 weeks of personal time, when I decided to leave and go into a different industry. Suddenly, loyalty was out the window. (She also cheated the 20 year admin out of all the personal time that the admin had accrued and never used over two decades. When I put notice in, she changed all the policies. Loyalty, you know? It’s important.)

        4. neverjaunty*

          Okay, a job telling you “loyalty” is like that creepy boyfriend who said “What’s the matter, don’t you love me?” any time you tried to assert yourself. It’s a guilt trip that pretends that their interests always trump your well-being.

          1. Sarahnova*

            Grrrrrreat analogy. A company that preaches “loyalty ” is that boyfriend who says, “You’d do it if you loved me”.

        5. Artemesia*

          A company will drop you in a heartbeat if it is in their interest to do so — it is rare for there to be ‘loyalty’ on the corporate side. I have watched people’s careers at middle age for reasons that had nothing to do with their work but with incompetence at the corporate level that damaged the business. One should be ethical but ‘loyal’? forget about it unless one has a long history with a company that demonstrates loyalty is rewarded.

    3. RMRIC0*

      IDK, there are a lot of companies and managers that aren’t very considerate of part-timers and see the arrangement as only being in their favor.

      1. I'm a Little Teapot*

        Yeah, like the many horrible retail jobs that insist on “open availability.” That should be illegal – or there should be a higher minimum wage for jobs with irregular hours.

    4. Dang*

      I think the boss is being unreasonable by saying “but you don’t work your other job on Mondays” when OP tells her no.

    5. Xarcady*

      “The whole point of a part-time position is that it’s not your first priority, so most companies/managers expect part-timers to have limited availability. ”

      Sadly, this has not been my experience. I’ve been looking for a second part-time job to go along with the part-time job I already have, but every single one I’ve found wants a great deal of flexibility in the hours. The ad will say 20 hours a week, M-F, 8-12, which would be great, because my current job is just evenings and weekends, but then it will go on to state that extra hours may be necessary at “peak times” and that weekend hours will be necessary every other weekend. My impression is that employers figure that anyone willing to take part-time work is so desperate that they will agree to any hours, however inconvenient, just to get a job.

      Trying to find two part-time jobs where the hours won’t conflict is nearly impossible.

  6. Laurel Gray*

    Hey OP, wanting a “weekend” no matter where it falls in the week, and stating that to an employer is not a faux pas, it’s a reasonable expectation to have work/life balance.

    1. Laurel Gray*

      I hope my reply didn’t come off as snarky, I am on your side OP. I think I am just projecting here because of the messages I see now along the lines of “f—sleep” and “no days off” where people are promoting the idea of working as much as possible. Some people really live this lifestyle and believe “you can sleep when you die” and anything less than constantly working means you’re someone who isn’t serious about making money. I see the memes and picture captions on social media and roll my eyes – then take my ass to sleep and grab 8 hours of that good old fashioned shut eye!

      1. Mike C.*

        Take those same words, and apply them to pictures of people binge drinking or worse. It really puts that whole attitude into perspective. I saw this done with a bunch of those really gross “thinspiration” memes and it was hilarious!

        1. Liane*

          If you could give me a phrase to google, maybe on the non-work thread for these, I’d love to see them.

          1. Mike C.*

            Google “Inspiring fitness quotes over pictures of drinking”.

            “You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take” takes on a whole new meaning.

        2. Jader*

          It’s interesting you say that. I was raised by a workaholic father and always pictured myself being the same. When I dedicated my life to my past job I burnt out and ended up on stress leave. When I told my therapist I felt like a failure not being able to handle working as much as I imagined I would he said, “Its incredibly unhealthy to believe you should be a workaholic. No one grows up saying they’d like to be an alcoholic. That’s what you are saying.” I still struggle with it.

          1. Marcela*

            I had a different but similar experience. My father was also a workaholic and for many years my brother and I only saw him on Sundays, since he left for work before we woke up and returned after we were sleeping. And what I got is a very strong refusal to live under the same rules. I even avoid shopping on Sundays, or close to the closing time, all because I can’t help thinking about all those people working to death instead of being with their families, like it happened to me. It troubles me this to no end, because I understand not everyone wants the same thing, and many people prefers different schedules and so, but I can’t shake the thought that maybe if the work needs were not as demanding, my father would have been with me when I was a child. :(

      2. Sparkling water*

        I worked with someone who had that attitude. She had a full time job and took six hours of a tough major every semester and was a single mom of two kids whose dads were not in the picture and denying paternity so she had endless court visits. She slept only 3 to 4 hours a night. She had a mental breakdown about 15 years ago and still needs psychiatric care. In my mind, the lack of sleep and the go-go-go lifestyle played a role in her breakdown. I hear from her daughter that no one in the family thinks she will ever be able to take care of herself again.

        1. Myrin*

          I started a new part-time job just last month that I like a lot – the two bosses are lovely people and great to work with and I learn something interesting and new every time, and it’s only on Sundays and sometimes one additional day if they’re very busy (it’s an inn). I also had a job interview for a second part-time job last Thursday (it went really well! I’m not in the US so not all of Alison’s advice applies to me but it still helped me prepare for it a great deal) which would be 10 hours a week, so maybe two days à 5 hours. All in all, not too much, right?

          Well, the problem is, I’m also a university student about to enter my second-to-last semester. I’ll be doing more classes than in the last two semesters combined (voluntarily, but I want to stay in this field and want to gather all the knowledge and experience I can get). And I came to the conclusion that this combined with two part-time jobs isn’t doable for me. Like the OP, I very much need two days off, and that just wouldn’t be feasible if I worked two jobs and went to classes at the same time.

          So I decided to, should I be offered the second job as well, decline it. Although it actually pays more than the first job, but there are other factors that actually make it less desirable. I’ve been thinking really hard about this but decided that my mental health and also physical wellbeing need to come first. Obviously, it’s totally possible I won’t be offered the second job at all, but I wanted to plan for the possibility regardless. But yeah, I don’t want to have a breakdown from being too stressed out and decided that that’s what matters most.

          1. OhNo*

            Way to make the tough decision!

            I had a similar experience – I was working three jobs and going to grad school at night. Unfortunately, I didn’t have the sense to turn down any of the jobs when I was offered them, so I ended up working 50 hours a week (with tons of commute time), while holding down a full-time graduate course load. I was miserable, and I did poorly in my classes, and it generally was not a good idea.

            Now that I’ve graduated, I’m down to one part-time job, and I’m still trying to retrain my brain to feel that time off is not only okay, it’s a GOOD thing. Not to mention the trouble I’m having adjusting to a normal sleep schedule. Don’t make my mistake! The extra money honestly just isn’t worth the effect it will have on you.

        2. Natalie*

          Sometimes that kind of behavior can be a symptom of a pre-existing issue, too. I find I push myself like that when my anxiety disorder is ramping up. It feels like a possible alternative to using the good management techniques I learned or just letting the anxiety be there. But I’ve learned the hard way that it’s actually a maladaptive technique for me.

      3. Amber Rose*

        I tell people jokingly that “i’ll sleep when I die… which at this rate is probably next Thursday.”

        I like sleeping. I like it a whole lot. I’m ok with going without for short time periods for things I love, but few people LOVE their jobs. My job is freaking awesome, but I’d still quit if I won 50 million in the lottery. I’d just give like, a year notice rather than 2 weeks.

    2. BRR*

      I think it’s hugely important to have two days off in a row. Not just for camping but have the rest be together is more effective.

  7. That Lady*

    You might ask if they would be willing to up you to full time. Say that you can’t quit your other job just for one extra day at this job, but if they’re willing to make it a five-day, full-time job… well… that’s a whole different ballgame.

    1. Anyonymous*

      Except then she’ll be working 6 days a week for 12 hours a day like her coworkers do….

    2. OP*

      I don’t know if they have space for a full time position right now. I also like my other job at teapots a LOT, which complicates things! If they could give me a full time position I’d happily take it, but they can’t. If the Cheesemakers offered me a full time position I would definitely consider it (I would have to set boundaries concerning my schedule because they have a very intense work culture with long hours).

      1. Jerzy*

        I don’t know if you meant the pun, but talking about the “culture” at “Cheesemakers” hit my square in the funnies. :)

  8. GreenMachine*

    Along those lines what if you work part time and want to have a stable schedule? At one point I offered to be flexible during particularly hectic times of the year, working more hours and switching days and whether I worked mornings and evenings. Now things have mellowed out, but they continue to want my schedule to flex every week. Its inconvenient and down right problematic because of other obligations – though obligations that are fuzzier than a second job. Other part time staff who have second jobs or children aren’t required to do this, but I’m having trouble coming up with a good push back thats valid.

    1. Anyonymous*

      You’ve committed to volunteering two days a week somewhere, and it’s a firm commitment.

      Norm Feut,i in his “Pretending to Care: The Retail Employee’s Handbook”, says that when you’re asked for your schedule in a retail job (or any, really, that doesn’t have a classic 9-5 M-F schedule) you should say you’re available Friday, Saturday and Sunday, but that you volunteer to read to elderly people at a nursing home every Monday and that you can’t break that commitment. That way you get all the Monday-celebrated holidays off, like Memorial Day and Labor Day.

      1. Paige Turner*

        I used to work as a hair salon receptionist, and I still miss having that Sunday-Monday weekend. Super convenient to be able to go to appointments, shopping, etc on Mondays and avoid the crowds.

        1. OfficePrincess*

          Yup. NightmareJob’s one redeeming quality was being off on Wednesdays, though it was Wednesdays and Sundays off which meant never getting a weekend, even midweek.

        2. Jader*

          Yes! Plus I get Sunday to do stuff with my husband who works the regular 9 to 5, Monday to Friday, and then Monday all to myself for running errands or binge watching Grey’s Anatomy on Netflix.

    2. Mike C.*

      Your time is your time, regardless of how you spend it. Your time is not somehow less valuable simply because you don’t have kids or a second job. It’s a disgusting belief so don’t fall for that trap!

      1. Adam V*

        This. Just tell them “I’m no longer able to flex my time in that way, and I’ll need to stick with a regular schedule.” No need to bring up “you know, the way my coworkers with kids and second jobs have”.

    3. AndersonDarling*

      Ugh! My part time manager was playing the same game with me. There was once a big emergency and I volunteered to leave my full time (9-5) job in the middle of the day to take care of the situation. It took two hours, and I’m glad I did it, but the manager started saying there were emergencies all the time to get me to work in the middle of the day. I would show up and it was just a regular day, she just wanted to get another hour of work out of me.
      She cried wolf too many times.

    4. Liane*

      The only time I have done this was with a very, very good retail manager who asked me to work different hours last holiday/layaway season (which means from Fall through Christmas). I only agreed because he was an awesome enough manager that I could trust him to keep his word that 1-I could take long evening meal breaks on Wednesdays for choir & 2-after the season he would make sure I was scheduled full time 7am-4pm with no Sundays for months.
      We both kept the bargain. But I believe this was the exception that proves the rule.

  9. aebhel*

    I agree with Allison–you’re not at all unreasonable, especially since it doesn’t sound like they’re looking to turn this into an ACTUAL full-time position, and lingering in that just-below-40 with no benefits and another job place is a miserable way to live if you don’t desperately need the money.

    Although it does sound like the company culture may not be the best fit for you–places that are run by high-energy workaholics have a tendency not to be very understanding toward people who want a more sane work-life balance.

    1. OP*

      This is true. I am questioning the fit more and more reading this comment section, people are pointing out a lot of great things

  10. Retail Lifer*

    It’s hard to tell if they want to expand your role (another day and more responsibilies) because you’re doing so well OR if they just want to wring more work out of you. Either way, employers sometimes expect way too much out of part-time employees, who aren’t getting benefits and really can’t be expected to be as invested in the job as they are. You were definitely not out of line in assuring your weekend off, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they turn around and try to make the extra day and tasks a condition of the job. Part-time employees are often taken advantage of and considered replaceable. Don’t let that sway you into being walked all over, but definitely keep that in mind.

  11. T3k*

    Someone should tell that company they’re using MB wrong. It’s a personality test, not a job aptitude test. Companies are supposed to use it to see how best to interact with that particular individual. For example, my MB personality is highly logical, so an employer would have to focus more on reasoning with me like I’m Spock, rather than trying to appeal my emotional side, which is pretty non-existent.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Yeah, that one made me chuckle, “According to your MB results you can push products at people who do not need them.” Huh?

      1. JB (not in Houston)*

        I once had a job where I started off as an admin, and when they promoted me to recruiter, it was because “your personality profile shows that you are comfortable being flexible with the truth.” That was not a good assessment of my personality. I did not stay there long.

        1. Pineapple Incident*

          If I were drinking milk right now, it would have come out of my nose reading this ridiculous conclusion. WOW what a freakin leap from a personality test, and an insulting one at that! Good thing you got out of there!!

          1. JB (not in Houston)*

            Thanks. :) Yeah, it was a terrible place to work, but I was so young and inexperienced that I didn’t see all the red flags waving at me until that happened.

    2. MsM*

      According to my MB type, I should either be in IT or holed up in a supervillain lair somewhere. I’ll admit the latter’s tempting, but no.

    3. Liane*

      I am INFP (the touchy-feelings type), pretty rare for a science type. Definitely the Dr. Bones McCoy type of scientist. And it’s not just the logic/feelings part, it’s the whole thought processes.
      When I was a QA lab tech, I worked with a chemist who was very much a Spock type & she eventually figured out that she should use me to test out lab test SOPs she was developing. I thought so differently from everyone else she’d ever worked with in a lab that if I had no trouble following the draft SOPs without any questions/clarification, she felt no one would. She was right and also had me help with some other testing where my ability to pick up odd appearance/texture changes that no one else noticed was useful.

      1. ancolie*

        A fellow INFP! And McCoy has been my favorite ST character since I watched my first episode. <3

    4. Sarahnova*

      Yep, as an I/O psychologist who is qualified to administer MBTI, I cringed at that.

  12. AndersonDarling*

    OP, if your boss thinks working 7 days a week isn’t a big deal, then ask if she can work on Saturday and Sunday. *tee hee*

      1. Anonymousterical*

        And that’s why she gets paid the big bucks. If she expects her reports to be putting in the same time commitment, then they’d better be getting overtime. If they’re salaried, and she expects the same commitment, then she’s probably a bad boss and they’re getting ripped. (Hi, I used to make $10/hour on a $38K salary.)

  13. Cass*

    I was in a similar situation, working 2 part time jobs and the more demanding (and unfortunately, increasingly unreasonable) job kept pressuring me into working 6 days a week. Ended up needing to quit that job to focus solely on the other one, it wasn’t a great time!

    1. Windchime*

      Me too. I think it’s really silly. “Would you rather read a book or go to a party?” I dunno…..which book? Who will be at the party? What kind of a party is it? Is my book boring? What’s traffic like? Do I have good leftovers–if so, book. If cute guy is going to be there, then party.

      This type of over-thinking a stupid question probably has a Briggs Meyer type assigned to it.

      1. Myers-Briggs*

        Yes, this. So much this. That is my exact reaction when taking those tests. I’m so humanities-based that I’m used to examining the permutations of each situation they’re describing. Incidentally, I also think it’s pretty easy to “fake” results. How on earth did this get started? Is there any legitimate business reason that these tests have been brought into the workplace in general?

      2. Cath in Canada*

        YES!

        My department asks a lot of situational questions at interview – what would you do in situation X – and apparently lots of candidates look really stressed when they say “well, it depends!”. That’s actually the correct answer, and is also my department’s unofficial motto!

        1. Artemesia*

          It is the hallmark of expertise to note that ‘it depends’ and then discuss the strategy for finding out enough to make a decision.

  14. Not So NewReader*

    This sounds a lot like retail work. If you do not play along, then you are out. Many retail bosses use the same technique, “oh you aren’t doing anything on Monday, you can work here!” No, OP, you are not wrong AT ALL for wanting to control your schedule.

    Your boss gives people the hard sales pitch. She is used to pushing. She is doing the same to you. She is giving you the hard sales pitch so you buy into working more. If you don’t want to, then don’t. Let the chips fall where they will.

    I see you said a couple times that you would consider going to work full time at this job. Please mull this over verrry carefully. It’s been my experience that what you see as a part timer grows much bigger once you are full time. Those little things that bother you now, become BIG things that really bother you once you are full time. It does not go away.

    And that whole thing of signing away your lunch break, makes me think to use extra caution with these people. It’s easy to feel sympathetic for a boss, but it’s important to look beyond the boss and see what upper management is like, what are the products/service like, AND is the company on solid ground financially and reputation-wise. Don’t base any decisions solely on the empathy you feel for your immediate boss- decisions based this way can play out poorly.

    1. Myrin*

      I really want to stress your third paragraph, especially as the OP says multiple times that she likes Job #1 a lot!

    2. Just Another Techie*

      Your boss gives people the hard sales pitch. She is used to pushing. She is doing the same to you. She is giving you the hard sales pitch so you buy into working more.

      Oooh, this is a great insight.

    3. Steve G*

      I agree with the retail part….I got fired from my weekend retail job in ’07 for not wanting to work on Easter, even though I gave notice, but it seems like one of the main managers had gotten tired of my no longer being free at their beck and call (as I had been during a period of unemployment before that). It was very ironic that there were all of these people pining for more hours – especially HS kids who had weekends free – yet come Easter I of all people have to be there. The manager was a nut case on the phone when I called in with a reasonable request to check is someone else wants to take my hours, as I can’t do it myself because I worked 40 miles west of there during the week. He started screaming about be there, or you are done.

      And as I write this, for the first time, I’m thinking, why the heck didn’t I contact Ralph Lauren corporate about this????

      1. Steve G*

        I meant I gave notice (albeit, not much) that I wanted off on Easter, not notice that I wanted to quit.

      2. BRR*

        Ugh that sounds terribly (and sadly typical). Retail wants you to give up the world for them in exchange for low pay, dealing with terrible customers, and a huge list of other unpleasant things. Crap in crap out.

    4. OP*

      I sincerely thank you for taking the time to think and write this. Your comment is so excellent and has given me a lot to think about.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Now you know about some of the mistakes I have made in life, OP. Take care of you, please.

    5. Liane*

      “And that whole thing of signing away your lunch break, makes me think to use extra caution with these people.”
      I keep hoping Alison will weigh in on this aspect, as to how legal &/or insane it really is in the US.

  15. Ashley the Nonprofit Exec*

    If you want flexibility in scheduling your employees, hire them full time and pay them enough that they are unlikely to have another job. To me, it’s not crazy to expect full-time employees to be pretty flexible with their time (although everyone should have at least 2 days off in a row each week, unless that’s just “not a thing” in your industry). But part-time employees almost always have something else going on (kids, other job, school, etc.) and – if you really want to keep them – you just can’t encroach on those other parts of their lives on a regular basis.

    1. Retail Lifer*

      THIS. At my last job we were only allowed to hire part-time salespeople (10-20 hours per week) and we were supposed to only hire people with completely “open” availability. They were also expected to be at our back and call (i.e. someone called off, YOU HAVE TO COME IN!). It was completely unrealistic to expect that people who can accept making $9 for 15 hours per week wouldn’t be in school or have another job and would always just be sitting at home waiting for us to call them in. I usually worked all the call-off shifts myself since I was an hourly manager making squat. At least I got overtime.

      1. BRR*

        I just posted something similar above but retail management (the management that doesn’t actually work in the stores) want everything from employees but don’t do anything to attract quality employees.

      2. I'm a Little Teapot*

        Wow, that’s horrible. And horribly stupid. Good for you for not insisting on open availability no matter what corporate said, though it sucks that it meant working a lot of call-out shifts yourself.

  16. Techfool*

    I wouldn’t even class that as marketing myself. It’s sales. Pushy sales. Nothing wrong with sales, but this is really the desperate end

    1. OP*

      That’s good to know. In the interview I was asked whether I’d be interested in “marketing” and I said yes because I assumed it meant maybe graphic design or writing copy or composing emails or something. My boss layer clarified that it’s called marketing and not sales because I don’t actually sell things, I just drum up interest.

      1. Anon369*

        Ah, this changes things a bit for me. Sounds like you did sort of commit to the marketing aspect at the outset. Next time, don’t assume; ask what marketing means to that person or Company.

  17. Kelly L.*

    The whole job gives me the willies. Does the shopping center even want people hanging out there pushing flyers on people? Between that and the position bait and switch, I feel like this is some kind of MLM or other semi-shady business model.

    1. OP*

      No, it’s no pyramid scheme, I get no commission, and I am not marketing to friends and family.

      Their practices may not be ideal but they provide a legitimate service to people

      1. OP*

        My boss did actually ask me, as kind of a joke, if anyone in my family would be interested in our service. But mostly she is just desperate for sales since she in on thin ice

        1. BRR*

          If she is on thin ice is it a possibility she’d be fired and you would get a different (and possibly better) boss?

          1. OP*

            She has only been here since March, and there is improvement, it’s just very slow. I think her bosses are very interested in working with her to improve, rather than let her go.

  18. ineloquent*

    Yesterday, a senior manager took a solid hour and a half out ouf our org’s already crazy busy day to hold an all hands meeting to watch youtube videos about our color personality types and test ourselves to see what categories we fall into. Such a massive waste of time.

    1. Myrin*

      I first read this as your senior manager instigating a meeting where you all had to hold hands for an hour and a half. I should definitely go to bed now.

      1. ineloquent*

        It practically turned into that – as much as I like my coworkers, once the converstaion devolevs into talking about each other’s signs, I’m done.

  19. Career Counselorette*

    FYI, the Starbucks commercial is preventing me from reading anything on this page.

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Can you take a screenshot of what you’re seeing and email it to me? Everything seems normal on my side. (Or just describe it to me, if screenshot isn’t possible.)

  20. katamia*

    Eesh. This isn’t how you use Myers Briggs. I would say this isn’t how you manage employee schedules at all, but I know this sort of thing is not uncommon in retail, so I’ll just say it isn’t how you *should* do it. This really doesn’t sound like a place you want to be associated with in the long run, OP.

    Also, I’m sure this hasn’t occurred to your manager, but the pushy sales techniques (because, yes, this is sales and not marketing) may be one reason why this place isn’t getting enough business. This is not your responsibility to tell the boss (my advice to you is to start job hunting ASAP), but haranguing me while I’m out and about is the quickest way to get me to NEVER use your service or product. I suspect this is doing more harm than good.

    1. OP*

      Yeah, I really don’t like these sales tactics. I don’t think I have the power to tell my boss they are a turn off to customers though. The whole company does this and it is encouraged from the top.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Heading: “Battles I will not win.”

        1) Entire company is doing X wrong and top level people think it is just fine the way it is.

        This type of selling attracts a certain type of customer. A lot of people know to walk away from this type of sales pitch, but not everyone.

        How long has your boss been at her job?

  21. Cath in Canada*

    Sounds like this employer needs to hire a separate person to do the sales/marketing thing one or two days a week, and leave the OP’s schedule as-is.

  22. OG*

    I have a part time job where they days off are Sunday (we’re not open), Tuesday and Friday and it’s awful. Say something about this sooner rather than later beause the longer this continues, the more of a problem it will be.

    1. Pineapple Incident*

      Doesn’t that suck? I worked in retail for a while with a boss who wanted completely open availability but wouldn’t make the schedule for Sunday-Saturday until the Friday leading into the week and would forget the days people requested off weeks in advance at her request. When she scheduled weekends, she wouldn’t alternate full weekends on with full weekends off, so I’d end up being assigned to a Saturday closing shift and Monday opening- can’t pull off any vacations that way especially not on $8.50 an hour :/

      Unfortunately I was so naive when I was hired that I didn’t insist on full-time status, and so for months while we were short I was working full-time hours with no PTO or benefits, and when I ended up giving 2 months notice that I’d be moving and switching stores she cut me down to 13 hours a week. I had to tell managers at other locations in town that I would cover their call-outs at a moment’s notice if they could call me first.

  23. Shannon Nicole*

    This sounds…icky. Not only does the job sounds sort of sketchy, but they aren’t respecting your wishes. Get out ASAP!

    On that note, I’ve had jobs like this before. I’ve told jobs I can’t work certain days because of school/whatever and the attitude I was given was horrid. My hours were cut (I was a server at the time) and my manager EVERY time he made the schedule and I complained about it would say “If only you could work XYZ days!” BLEH.

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