Ask a Manager

{ 167 comments… read them below }

1. Imaginary Number* July 31, 2017 at 12:16 am

   I have to disagree on #5 because it depend on the door.

   If it’s a door that swings both ways the person exiting should have the ROW because they’re pushing the door out of the bathroom (thus making it a less crowded situation.)

   If the door pushes one way and pulls the other: The rule of thumb for single doors (if no one is carrying anything and no one is jumping to hold the door) is that the person pushing goes through first because it’s a much simpler motion. The pusher passes it off once they’ve gone through and it’s generally quicker for everyone. If the person pulling the door open goes through first there’s no non-awkward way for them to pass the door off to the opposite person. That’s usually what leads to the awkward “here, walk under my armpit” situation.
   1. HeatherT* July 31, 2017 at 12:38 am

      Agreed! If the door opens inward, than I always hold the door for the person entering and then exit myself. Otherwise, you’re pushing past someone and closing the door in their face all at the same time.
   2. Violet* July 31, 2017 at 1:21 am

      I agree. If I’m entering the bathroom the same time someone is exiting, and I’m pushing the door while they’re pulling – I’m already halfway inside the bathroom before I realize this is even happening. It would be very strange to take a step back out to let them exit first, closing the door in front of me, then re-enter.
   3. Fiennes* July 31, 2017 at 1:46 am

      I’d say that in any public bathroom, going out trumps going in, because that’s the only way to make enough room for people. I’ve been in plenty of airport bathrooms, for instance, that are too narrow and badly designed for traffic flow. A “going in first” rule would quickly result in a logjam.

      Besides, when someone dashes up with a desperate look and a real emergency, people are almost always polite enough to make way.
      1. Look! A bee!* July 31, 2017 at 7:40 am

         Bingo. It makes logistical sense to let people out before anyone enters. In reality, I find that whoever makes the ‘no, you first, I insist’ motion first usually wins and the other person goes ahead entering or exiting or whatever while thanking them. Unless it’s a male and a female and then all kinds of weird gender expectations kick in, there’ve been times when a guy has literally insisted I pass through a door first that he’s holding even if it makes much more sense for me to allow him through before me, just because I’m female.
      2. Grey* July 31, 2017 at 8:40 am

         Yes. Let people out first. Think of a single toilet bathroom. Do you both need to be in there at the same time? Do you really want to stop and factor in the bathroom size each time you need to make this decision?
      3. Falling Diphthong* July 31, 2017 at 8:55 am

         Yeah, the reason for that rule on elevators–and subway cars–is simple logic about making enough space. Same thing applies to bathrooms.
   4. David St. Hubbins* July 31, 2017 at 7:50 am

      I feel it has more to do with space. There is generally less space inside than outside, so let the people come out, before going in. Less congestion that way. It’s like boarding a train. Wait for people to exit before entering.

      But it doesn’t really matter that much
   5. always in email jail* July 31, 2017 at 8:20 am

      Exactly.
      I agree that it SHOULD be the person exiting who has right of way, but more often than not the person exiting decides to hold the door open for the person entering so it’s just faster to go in. Kind of like at 4way stops when someone thinks they’re being nice by giving you the “go ahead” wave when it’s not your turn (I find both to be frustrating despite the good intentions JUST FOLLOW THE RULES OF SOCIETY GUYS)
      1. OnFire* July 31, 2017 at 8:49 am

         Ugh. I hate the go-ahead wave at 4-way stops. I’m always paranoid that it’s a set-up and they’re going to T-bone me, and *I will be at fault.* Traffic laws spell out very clearly how to handle 4-ways, and your (generic you) “courtesy” is illegal!

         Rant over. I agree, let people out of the bathroom first.
         1. Samata* July 31, 2017 at 9:35 am

            True story: A friend of mine got a ticket for a moving violation when waving someone along when she actually had the right away.
            1. Admin of Sys* July 31, 2017 at 10:10 am

               Ooh, I didn’t know that could happen. But then, I tend to be really stubborn when the person w/ the right-of-way tries to get me to go first. Mind you, I have before waved someone on because I suddenly wasn’t sure if I was supposed to turn or not, and there wasn’t anyone behind me to delay if I checked directions.
         2. Don't make unprotected lefts at rush hour* July 31, 2017 at 11:14 am

            Not quite the same set-up, but I’ve seen multiple accidents from people stopping on multi-lane streets to let people turn out of parking lots. It’s usually when traffic is stopping for the next light ahead. Parking lot driver turns across multiple lanes only to be hit by a vehicle several lanes over whose lane is not backed up as far and therefore is not expecting to have to stop yet.

            At least with the bathroom if there’s a collision no one’s going to have to call an ambulance for an injury.
      2. Typhon Worker Bee* July 31, 2017 at 1:05 pm

         I agree, especially when I’m on my bike. It’s so much safer when everyone behaves predictably!

         The worst are the people in the lane nearest you who wave you over when traffic’s still moving in the other lane.
         1. Ego Chamber* August 1, 2017 at 12:03 am

            That’s my favorite: when someone (unintentionally—I hope!) attempts to wave me into oncoming traffic when I’m on a bike. Bonus points if they get really annoyed at me for not going, and double extra bonus points if they end up cursing at or flipping me off. (I ride a bike in a small town where most people drive farm trucks. I have seen some shit.)
   6. kittymommy* July 31, 2017 at 8:36 am

      That’s how I normally do it, but for a bathroom my brain is out trumps in. I don’t know why though. It just makes more sense to me.
      1. Typhon Worker Bee* July 31, 2017 at 1:05 pm

         better out than in?

         (sorry)
   7. Alex* July 31, 2017 at 9:44 am

      I think the rule should be that when possible the person coming in should hold the door for the person coming out so that the person who (hopefully) just washed their hands doesn’t have to touch a potentially gross door handle.
      1. Christmas Carol* July 31, 2017 at 9:58 am

         Which is why it should be mandatory that all bathroom doors should push out.
   8. Elsajeni* July 31, 2017 at 10:02 am

      Yes, this is what I was thinking. The outer door to the bathroom at my work swings inward; when you run into someone, what generally happens is that the person leaving (coming from the “pull” direction) takes a half-step back and holds the door, and the person entering (coming from the “push” direction) goes through first.

      Of course, if there is no outer door, or it’s propped open, or you have a futuristic bathroom with automatic sliding doors or something, I suppose this isn’t much help…
   9. Breda* July 31, 2017 at 10:33 am

      Exactly. Elevators & subway trains are different, because the doors remove themselves from the equation. Doors that swing inward change the logistics completely, and in that case the person pushing gets right-of-way. (Also, office bathrooms are rarely so crowded that you need to make space in the same way. Movie theater or airport bathrooms, maybe – but that’s why the best of those have an aisle that turns rather than a door.)
   10. Koko ¯\_(ツ)_/¯* July 31, 2017 at 11:22 am

       Yes, this is exactly what I was going to say. The door swing makes all the difference.

       The only “modification” I use is a big one – I think that significant weather plays a role when it comes to exterior doors. If it’s pouring down rain or excruciatingly hot outside, I always yield to let people come in to escape the weather conditions before I go outside. This is especially a thing with high-traffic entrances where there could be a half dozen people on each side of the door…I feel badly making 6 people stand in the rain or swelter in 98*F temps while a train of 6 people exits the building. If the door swings the wrong way then I always just step clearly to the side and wait for the people on the outside walk through, then I step back over and exit myself once everyone has gotten inside.
       1. Toph* July 31, 2017 at 4:50 pm

          This is a good exception to the door-swing rule.
       2. Julia* July 31, 2017 at 9:51 pm

          I’ve had to stand in the pouring rain several times as people inside a building or bus stood right in the doorway instead of letting me in. Thank you for being considerate.
   11. DaniCalifornia* July 31, 2017 at 12:17 pm

       Agree 100%. Lately I’ve had a bunch of people who were near the door decide to leave as I’m coming in and halfway through. They either brush past me and we end up bumping together or I have to take several steps back. I could understand if they had started the motion of opening the door first, then I would step back.
   12. Noah* July 31, 2017 at 1:40 pm

       If the door only goes one way, whoever opens the door holds it for the other person, then goes. At least, that’s the proper, non-bathroom etiquette in this situation.
2. Pete* July 31, 2017 at 12:28 am

   No one can enter a full lift. Someone must exit first.

   I use that analogy for doorways. Whoever is leaving has the right-of-way.
   1. Ramona Flowers* July 31, 2017 at 12:53 am

      I think there’s a caveat for bathrooms: this applies if everyone is walking at a normal pace.

      If someone is walking at a faster-than-normal pace and seems agitated, that’s when ‘if you’ve gotta go’ kicks in and you let them pass first.
   2. Hornswoggler* July 31, 2017 at 5:29 am

      As they say on the London Underground: “Let the passengers _off_ the train first”.
   3. AMT* July 31, 2017 at 9:32 am

      A coworker at an old job would barrel through you to get into the elevator instead of letting you off. She was universally hated.
      1. Julia* August 1, 2017 at 5:10 am

         My behated co-worker at my old job couldn’t even let people pass through the hallway she was using. Two people could walk side by side there, but whenever she saw someone who wasn’t a higher-up coming, she’d walk slooowly in the middle of the hall.
   4. Turquoise Cow* July 31, 2017 at 9:41 am

      I think in any case, the person leaving should go first if possible. Obviously if the person entering is in the middle of the doorway as the person leaving approaches, they should just keep going, but otherwise, it’s like the NYC subway – let people get off first.

      Or, like I say to the guy slowly inching forward to take my parking spot before I’ve left – I need to vacate the space before you can take it.
3. InkyPinky* July 31, 2017 at 12:39 am

   For OP2, I’d guess that your employer also factored in your leaving when they worked out how many people they need to incentivize and how much money they can offer those people. Which means it would probably be even harder for them to add you back into th pool.
   1. Samata* July 31, 2017 at 9:36 am

      This is a great point. I do feel sorry for OP but do agree with Alison that it’s just a matter of bad timing.
   2. Turquoise Cow* July 31, 2017 at 9:44 am

      Yeah, it’s possible OP2 might have been slated to be included in the layoffs, but leaving accomplishes the same.
   3. Nicotene* July 31, 2017 at 10:37 am

      This does stink for OP though, in the sense of things they’d have done differently if they’d known the big picture. My sympathies! But especially since the company seems to be in cost-cutting mode, they’re unlikely to throw you a bone on this one.
   4. Artemesia* July 31, 2017 at 12:11 pm

      Sometimes in a situation like this a ‘fair haired boy’ will be given the bonus for leaving in this situation because of favoritism or a grateful and generous boss, but he is certainly not entitled to it. Bad timing. It is also the case that when people are paid off to volunteer to leave early that people later who are simply riffed do not often get that bonus. By waiting they lose out. So the OP only gets the bonus by the grace of the boss/organization; they is no entitlement.
4. Ramona Flowers* July 31, 2017 at 12:43 am

   #2 You could look at it another way: redundancy payments are there to cope with sudden job loss at a time when your employer is struggling and needs to pay people to leave. The best case scenario is that someone who wants to leave anyway gets some money for doing so but, even then, it generally means coping with sudden job loss. There’s still likely to be some stress and uncertainty involved, including financial uncertainty.

   So. How lucky to have already got something lined up and not have to worry about it. And by doing so you may have saved someone else from losing their job, given that if not enough people take voluntary redundancy, they’ll move on to the non-voluntary kind. I’d just thank your lucky stars you have another job.

   Your friends sound well-meaning, but not particularly helpful on this front.
   1. Jenny* July 31, 2017 at 1:38 am

      All good points!
   2. Bagpuss* July 31, 2017 at 2:56 am

      Also, redundancy payments are not a reward for having contributed to the company’s success, so the fact that #2 has contributed a lot in the past is irrelevant.

      Redundancy payments are there to help tide you over if you have the misfortune to lose your job and help you manage financially while you find a new one. They aren’t a windfall. #2 hasn’t lost their job, they’ve chosen to leave it and (presumably) did so because they decided that they were better off moving elsewhere.
   3. Narrator for bad mimes* July 31, 2017 at 8:54 am

      I’d have been really annoyed if it happened to me but as you said it would have been way worse having to look for a job out of the blue. Which at least in my industry would most likely take longer than the severance package would last.
   4. Lora* July 31, 2017 at 9:48 am

      It also sounds like you were central enough in the org that even if you hadn’t had something else lined up, and had volunteered, they might have said, “No not YOU”.
   5. Elysian* July 31, 2017 at 10:09 am

      I might be going against the flow of advice, but I would ask if I were the OP. The company might not give the same payment to someone who was planning to leave anyway, but lots of people get a severance when they leave for signing a release. Since the wallet is already open, so to speak, they might be more willing to give a payment now than they otherwise would. It is possible that they could say no, but it is also possible that they could give the OP a severance/transition payment. If they asked saying “I understand if this isn’t possible, but I was wondering if…” they would show they were assuming that no would be the answer, but could be surprised with a yes.
      1. Narrator for bad mimes* July 31, 2017 at 10:46 am

         But isn’t that on par with asking your former company if they mind paying you an extra month’s salary out of good will arguing that since they are already paying their employees they may as well pay out one more salary to someone who used to work there?
         1. Elysian* July 31, 2017 at 11:18 am

            No, because usually when a company gives a severance they generally make the employee sign a release of claims, non-disparagement provision, confidentiality agreement, etc. Which I’m sure they’re also doing with the voluntary resignation incentive. What you suggest is giving something for nothing; what I’m saying is par for the course on severance agreements. It is just possible that they’ll be more likely to do it now than they might otherwise have been. Giving up those rights is worth something to companies. They might also not be interested, but I don’t think it is an unreasonable ask given the circumstances.
            1. Ego Chamber* August 1, 2017 at 12:14 am

               I understand your point, but the only time I’ve heard of people getting severance for leaving voluntarily is when they were given the choice of quitting instead of being fired (then they get severance but typically aren’t eligible for unemployment benefits).
      2. Sadsack* July 31, 2017 at 12:10 pm

         I have never heard of receiving severence for quitting. I think asking for it would make OP appear greedy and tone deaf. There are people who are actually losing their jobs and don’t have something else to immediately go to. OP is going to ask for money for quitting her job to go to another? I would not do this.
         1. Julia Gulia* July 31, 2017 at 12:34 pm

            +1,000
         2. Anna* July 31, 2017 at 7:05 pm

            I don’t agree about looking greedy, but definitely naïve.
      3. Bitcoin Zealot* December 28, 2017 at 3:43 pm

         I agree with Elysian – OP has very little to lose by asking diplomatically. The answer is more likely than not to be no, but it might be yes, and it might be somewhere in between (not the full redundancy package, but something).
   6. Jerry Vandesic* July 31, 2017 at 10:49 am

      In some cases severance payments end when you start a new job (or are offset by the new salary if the new salary is less than the old one). If that’s the case for the OP, there would be no benefit as the severance would end immediately.
5. Ramona Flowers* July 31, 2017 at 12:51 am

   #4 If you’re worried about social fall-out I would urge you to rethink your decision to stay on the panel if they’re interviewed. I understand that you want to make sure you hire the right person, but isn’t there someone else from your group who can judge that for you? Seniority doesn’t need to be the decider on that.

   If you’re on the interview panel, it’s much more likely to cause social fall-out. And if you’re worried about the social fall-out, then – however professional and unbiased you are – I am going to disagree with Alison and say that’s a sign that you shouldn’t be on the panel. Even if you don’t agree, it sounds like it will cause less of a headache if you aren’t.
   1. InkyPinky* July 31, 2017 at 12:55 am

      Or I’d rephrase that as considering what’s more of a concern for you – social fallout from an acquaintance or being uninvolved in the hiring and possibly getting stuck with someone you can’t work with. Make your decisions accordingly.
   2. Infinity Anon* July 31, 2017 at 10:33 am

      I think Alison’s wording could work though. When talking to this applicant in a social setting, minimize your role in the hiring process.
6. Myrin* July 31, 2017 at 1:10 am

   #3 could totally be my doctoral advisor. He’s a great scholar, a supportive mentor, and a very good and motivating boss, but he’s also the most awkward person I’ve ever met (incidentally, whenever I hear someone on the internet say “Oh he just did [slightly creepy thing] because he’s awkward!” I do the “Mr M.” test, meaning I wonder whether this is something he would do or not; most of the time, it’s not).

   I was once in a conversation with him and then another colleague joined and the three of us chatted for a few minutes and then suddenly, my advisor just turned around and left! It’s like he has this feeling of “want to leave” but can’t quite connect it to the proper-as-defined-by-etiquette behaviour around it so he just does the thing. It has happened in other situations following a similar pattern as well and I’m used to it by now but I can definitely imagine that someone who doesn’t know this about him would be taken aback!

   But from this experiece, I really think it’s highly likely that the peers in question maybe felt kind of overwhelmed or their minds were already where they had to be next and they just completely blanked on How To Behave.
   1. Jeanne* July 31, 2017 at 1:23 am

      That’s possible. My vote is they were told when given a cue by manager to get out and let the interview finish without them.
      1. oranges & lemons* July 31, 2017 at 8:37 pm

         Yeah, my guess was that they’d been told to leave after a certain point in the conversation and figured it would be less disruptive not to say anything when they went.
   2. Grits McGee* July 31, 2017 at 6:54 am

      Yeah, I had a friend like this in high school- really nice guy, but he was single-handedly running his school’s Latin club (how we knew each other), so there were many times where he’d get a look on his face and run off mid-conversation. It’s funny and endearing now after years of knowing each other, but it was definitely disconcerting (and felt incredibly rude) at the time.
      1. nani1978* July 31, 2017 at 8:48 am

         A look on his face and an abrupt exit? I am now convinced that your friend is Clark Kent. ;)
         1. Grits McGee* July 31, 2017 at 9:13 am

            Hey could leap over a parking meter in a single bound, so you might not be wrong….. :)
   3. Gazebo Slayer* July 31, 2017 at 7:17 am

      Yeah, I used to wander away mid-conversation as a kid. Definitely not unknown among people who lack social skills.
   4. Look! A bee!* July 31, 2017 at 7:43 am

      I find people like this pretty refreshing. I find it really awkward and frustrating trying to end social gatherings, the way you are supposed to first make some noises about leaving, do the rounds saying goodbye, rebuke people trying to get you to stay, and finally walk out with everyone saying ‘bye!’, it’s exhausting and can take ages. It would be a much more wonderful world I think if we were able to just leave situations once we were ready to!
      1. Stan* July 31, 2017 at 8:34 am

         I’m a big fan of the “Irish goodbye”! (Link to follow)
         1. Stan* July 31, 2017 at 8:34 am

            http://www.slate.com/articles/life/a_fine_whine/2013/07/ghosting_the_irish_goodbye_the_french_leave_stop_saying_goodbye_at_parties.html
            1. Look! A bee!* July 31, 2017 at 4:03 pm

               Haha yes! I do the same. I’ll normally leave and then let people know via text that I’ve already gone, if we’re out at a club or someplace busy. I’ll say bye at someone’s party though as that’s just manners.
      2. Turquoise Cow* July 31, 2017 at 9:54 am

         My cousins and I have this understand from our childhood that when our parents say they are ready to leave, they are not really ready to leave for another 20 minutes. Often, one of them would ask why we have not yet gotten our coats and gotten up when they said they were ready to leave, because we knew they weren’t ready, and in the meantime we’d be standing there wearing winter coats indoors and dying of the heat.

         My husband is also terrible at knowing when and how to say goodbye, so despite me really wanting to go home and sleep, and him agreeing and then apologizing afterward every time, we are often the last to leave. He also has “one more question,” or “one more thing,” to ask just as we are leaving. This is true also when consulting with doctors or wedding contractors or pretty much anyone else we have non-social meetings with. I might prefer if he just wandered off, I said quick goodbyes and then we were on our way.
         1. Sibley* July 31, 2017 at 12:35 pm

            My dad is like that. My mom basically drags him out, it looks much more polite than that, but its basically that. Doesn’t work every time of course, but it helps a lot.

            Having small children around who quite literally pee their pants or something horrifying probably helps re-train you too.
   5. edj3* July 31, 2017 at 9:44 am

      Those two peer interviewers may also have been late to a can’t-miss meeting. Their abrupt departure might have nothing to do with the interview, the candidate or any social awkwardness.
      1. Nicotene* July 31, 2017 at 10:43 am

         That was my thought. Don’t take it personally, they probably needed to rush on to the next thing and didn’t have time for a smooth transition. This sounds like me on days where I have things scheduled back -to-back.
      2. Bostonian* July 31, 2017 at 1:44 pm

         Yeah, especially if there wasn’t a natural break in the conversation for them to interject.
   6. Episkey* July 31, 2017 at 10:40 am

      I also had a friend in grad school that was like this. The first couple of times it happened, it was very disconcerting and I was like, “What just happened?” and thought it felt very rude. But once I got to know her better, I realized it was just one of her quirks and she truly did not mean anything offensive or unkind. She was a unique one!
   7. Former Retail Manager* July 31, 2017 at 11:03 am

      HA! My current boss does this. At first I found it off-putting and borderline rude, but I’ve come to realize that’s just how he is, blunt and to the point in virtually all ways with no rudeness intended. We’ll be chatting, he’ll decide he’s done with the convo, say “well, okay then” and just spin back around to his computer and start typing. Sometimes he’ll just spin back around without saying a word. He is awkward in other ways as well and I know that when he has interviewed candidates in the past, there has been feedback about his odd personality and communication style. Maybe the people who interviewed OP were odd ducks or just didn’t know how to behave. Definitely wouldn’t read into it too much.
   8. Risha* July 31, 2017 at 11:55 am

      I catch myself doing this sometimes, and always feel bad about it. A lot of my human interaction is done by rote based on years of endless practice, because I was apparently born without any of the non-verbal interaction skills that usually come pre-installed. I swear, I was enjoying the conversation! I just got distracted by something else hard enough the programming got derailed!
7. Not Australian* July 31, 2017 at 1:32 am

   With most doors, the etiquette is simply that the person with better manners defers to the other. (Hence all the ‘after you – no, no, after you!’) It costs nobody anything to stand aside and let someone else go through a door first, although if the bathroom’s very cramped it’s definitely got to be easier to let them leave before you enter.
   1. Specialk9* July 31, 2017 at 6:15 am

      Ugh, that’s the worst. Etiquette is supposed to reduce having to think about how to be gracious, a streamlining of brain drain. Having to wage a battle of the abject politeness at each door… I’d start thinking of door related murder!
      1. MegaMoose, Esq.* July 31, 2017 at 8:40 am

         Agreed – etiquette is about streamlining social situations. The “let women go first” rule is big where I live, which can lead to awkwardness when I’m following the “whoever’s closest to the door” rule. If someone says “after you” I take them for their word and go for it. Life is too short to get into politeness contests.
         1. Lily Rowan* July 31, 2017 at 8:51 am

            Agreed! I also hate milling around and waiting for other people to move, so even though I often think it’s stupid, if a man wants me to go first, I will go first!
         2. Kyrielle* July 31, 2017 at 9:36 am

            Yep. In that situation, I feel my correct polite response is ‘thank you’ and to go through the door, because we will all get where we want to be faster that way than if I stop and start insisting they go first.
      2. AMT* July 31, 2017 at 9:47 am

         Yep. Etiquette is all about arbitrary rules that make things easier. There is no physical reason why you walk on one side of the escalator and stand on the other, but everything is better when people know which side is which.
      3. nonymous* July 31, 2017 at 1:25 pm

         This reminds me of a pre-wedding dinner I went to where my MIL (American) and Uncle (Asian) both offered to pay. MIL was offended that Uncle challenged her offer to pay, and Uncle was confused that there were another couple back-and-forths before they settled on who would pay.
   2. Bagpuss* July 31, 2017 at 7:39 am

      I disagree. I think it is normally about practicalities – which way the door opens, mainly, but for outside doors also whether the conditions outside are such that its reasonable to give way to those entering because they are for instance) coming in our of unpleasant conditions
8. MommyMD* July 31, 2017 at 2:11 am

   Three months notice seems like an immense amount of time. Anything can and does happen in life. I think four weeks is plenty wherever you work. A position three months off could fall through for any number of reasons.
   1. xyz* July 31, 2017 at 2:50 am

      Somewhere between 1-3 months has been standard everywhere I’ve worked (a number of different countries, none in the US). But you would already have a signed employment contract lined up in the next place you’re going to, which I understand from AAM is not usual in the US.
   2. Bagpuss* July 31, 2017 at 2:50 am

      This does vary by location and job. 3 months is standard in my industry, and although a job offer *could* fall through, it isn’t common.
   3. Anoushka* July 31, 2017 at 2:54 am

      I know this wasn’t OP’s issue, but there actually are some places where you need to give a generous notice period like this, or at least more than two weeks! My contract states that I need to give a month’s notice, and then another week on top of that for every year I work past five years, up to a maximum of three months. A month has been the standard everywhere I’ve worked. I’m always shocked when American readers say they only have to give two weeks! Must be nice :)
      1. MK* July 31, 2017 at 3:48 am

         Nice? It never sounded that way to me. As far as I know, in all the countries where long notice periods are required, they are also required for the employer in case of firings and layoffs, as well as legally mandatory severance pay. Not to mention that, in practice, I have never seen a low-level, or even a mid-level, employee forced to work the whole long notice period if they said they wanted\needed to leave sooner. It always seemed to me that the u.s. at-will system’s advantages mostly apply to higher-level, well-compensated workers.
         1. Specialk9* July 31, 2017 at 6:17 am

            Yeah, not “nice”, since even with a signed contract, your job can still magically disappear, even after quitting your job. Not the fun kind of suspense.
            1. Anoushka* July 31, 2017 at 9:22 am

               Sorry, I meant nice in the sense that if you’re in a horrible job or chomping at the bit to leave, you can be out within two weeks. By the time I hand in my notice to a job, I’m more than ready to go, and a month of working somewhere you’ve mentally checked out of is torture. And since I would never give notice until I have a signed contract in hand, it’s often months between when I accept a job and when I start it. And sure, you probably won’t face legal repercussions if you don’t work your full notice period, but you’ll be burning a bridge. And while I’m glad my employer also has to offer me a notice period, I have seen it cause problems in getting rid of people or an employer having to pay obscene amounts of gardening leave to someone while the position remains vacant, because they can’t pay gardening leave and a new person.

               All that said, it’s obviously not great to live in suspense, wondering if your new job is going to disappear. Reading this site leaves me feeling like US workers have very less job security compared to the UK and Canadian workers. There are downsides to having longer notice periods, but I think overall they make sense.
               1. Artemesia* July 31, 2017 at 12:17 pm

                  Yes US workers have generally zero job security. You could walk into work today and be walked out the door with no severance.
                  1. Anoushka* July 31, 2017 at 12:45 pm

                     Sounds rough. Lots of people must find that stressful, Artemesia.
                  2. Bitcoin Zealot* December 28, 2017 at 3:48 pm

                     OTOH, there is not 20% youth unemployment here as in say France. People will take a chance on hiring if they know it’s reversible.
               2. Ego Chamber* August 1, 2017 at 12:46 am

                  “you probably won’t face legal repercussions if you don’t work your full notice period, but you’ll be burning a bridge.”

                  Here’s the thing though: even without being contractually required to give any notice, it burns bridges over here too—and potentially has financial consequences if ExJob makes a point of telling reference checkers that you left without notice (because they’re one of those places that fast-walks you out or just takes you off the schedule when you say you’re leaving, and you couldn’t afford the lost income between jobs).

                  I would kill for an employment contract situation. Literally kill. Seriously, who do I have to kill? :(
   4. Lone Rhino* July 31, 2017 at 3:01 am

      I just gave six weeks notice. It wasn’t required but I know what my plans are, I like my bosses and I’m not worried about being pushed out early. I think if all of those conditions exist, it’s ok to give a longer notice.
      1. Kathleen Adams* July 31, 2017 at 1:00 pm

         The last time I gave notice (a long time ago now), I gave almost a month, but of course it wasn’t required. I just knew it was going to be stressful trying to replace me and wanted to help my supervisor out. Plus I knew I wouldn’t be pushed out early.
   5. TL -* July 31, 2017 at 4:50 am

      Yeah I’ve always given months of notice – either that I’m looking or when I went to grad school; that was at least 6 months’ notice.
      Academia is weird like that, though.
      1. MegaMoose, Esq.* July 31, 2017 at 8:43 am

         I think I gave two or three months when I went to law school. Of course, my manager wrote one of my letter said of recommendation, so he knew something was up.
      2. Laura (Needs a New Name)* July 31, 2017 at 11:00 am

         Yeah, in academia I’ve typically given about 7 months notice. You *can* tell a chair in May that you won’t be back in September, but that would be massively nerve-wrecking for all involved.
      3. Artemesia* July 31, 2017 at 12:20 pm

         Academia also has contracts and in many cases even without tenure, if you are notified by X date (around April or May some time) you are contractually employed for the next year. They cannot generally speaking riff you in the middle of the year and certainly not in the middle of the term and so you are also expected to honor your contract . If you do need to leave mid year (say family move or something) then you would be expected to give long advance notice and work with the department to make sure things were in place for coverage in the final semester. Same in public schools, you are expected to honor the contract if possible — generally only physical disability or illness is acceptable as a reason to not follow through.
         1. Artemesia* July 31, 2017 at 12:20 pm

            ‘NOT notified by specific date’
   6. Akcipitrokulo* July 31, 2017 at 5:59 am

      Standard here is 1 month – where I am it’s 2 months – but yes, that works both ways.
   7. Purple snowdrop* July 31, 2017 at 6:43 am

      A while back we had to wait four months for a new member of staff. His notice period was that long. He hoped his previous employer would be flexible but no :(
      1. Oscar Madisoy* July 31, 2017 at 6:50 am

         Four months! Was that contractually mandated? If not, since the guy already had the new job lined up, why couldn’t he have just decided to leave when he wanted to? Again, barring a contractual agreement, the old employer couldn’t force him to stay the full four months… right?
         1. BananaPants* July 31, 2017 at 7:28 am

            In Europe, employment contracts are common and spell out the required notice period, which the employee is contractually obligated to give.

            We’ve had colleagues in Europe leave and they typically give several months’ notice because they’re contractually obligated to do so. Having a contract usually means that they also get a lot more protections against layoffs. For example, a colleague’s wife was laid off when she was in early pregnancy and because she was let go when she was pregnant (even though her employer didn’t know), her former employer was compelled to pay her a full salary for something like a year and a half beyond the layoff – the entire pregnancy plus maternity leave.
         2. MK* July 31, 2017 at 9:36 am

            No one can be forced to show up for work, but there might be financial considerations. Usually, when long notice e periods are mandatory by law, the “severance in lieu of notice” applies to the employee too, in that the employee (or more likely the new employer) will pay this to the old employer, so that the employee will be released early. Most companies are not really that invested in keeping unwilling employees for months on end, unless it’s a particularly critical or hard-to-fill position.

            Realistically, if an employee stops coming to work and gets a new job, all that the old employer can do is sue them for money. If the compensation owed is not a great sum, they will be unlikely to bother. Even if it is, the litigation and the negative publicity are rarely worth it. I have only seen such cases successfully going to trial when the timing of the employee leaving had extraordinary negative consequences for the company.
   8. Look! A bee!* July 31, 2017 at 7:45 am

      Totally depends. My notice period is three months as I work with patients delivering longterm psychotherapy and it takes time to work towards endings, transfer cases, prepare people for finishing therapy etc. not to mention tying up all of the other loose ends/referrals/getting case notes up to date for transfer. I know this is sandwiches territory but there are many jobs where twelve weeks is necessary to be able to leave the position in a good place.
      1. Sled Dog Mama* July 31, 2017 at 8:38 am

         Absolute bare minimum in my position is six weeks, most people go longer, you might be able to get away with less if you were very very junior in a very large facility (but you’d probably kill that reference).
         This is because the company has to either get the new person in place or hire temporary coverage. A significant portion of my position involves public safety and without someone to fulfill that role the (US) federal government can and will shut us down.
9. MommyMD* July 31, 2017 at 2:19 am

   It’s nice manners to move out of the way if possible, wherever you are. Never insist on the right of way. It’s inconsequential in the scheme of things.
   1. Specialk9* July 31, 2017 at 6:19 am

      I like to be polite and give way, hold doors etc, but sometimes it’s actually more polite to let someone else give way and not insist – I give a warm thank you and sail ahead. Not every door needs to be a logjam.
   2. Sutemi* July 31, 2017 at 7:25 am

      However, on the flip side don’t insist on being the person to hold the door if the other person does first.
      I can’t count the number of times I’ve held a door and had a man insist that he needed to hold it instead, that I must go first because men must hold doors and poor, delicate ladies must not.
      1. Bagpuss* July 31, 2017 at 7:42 am

         yes, and almost always when the mechanics, (which way the door opens etc.) means that it is much more awkward.
         Politeness is about making things easier for others. What they are doing is not polite, it is controlling.
         1. Turquoise Cow* July 31, 2017 at 10:11 am

            Yes! I’ve had people try to hold doors for me who ended up basically having to stand IN the doorway to hold it. At that point, your chivalry is kind but ultimately makes it harder. Just go.
            1. Allison* July 31, 2017 at 10:23 am

               I was in an elevator the other day and a man, who was in front of me, refused to get off the elevator until I did, which involved me walking past him, and it just didn’t make any sense. I know “ladies first” is a general rule men, especially older men, still follow, I just don’t understand why. ~Manners~ they say, but . . . shouldn’t there be some reason for etiquette beyond “this is how we’ve always done it”? If you’re close to the door, go ahead, if you’re far from the door, let the people in front of you off first. Why should gender impact this order? I’d only feel disrespected if a man barged past me to get off first, and sometimes I wonder if “ladies first” was implemented to keep men from doing just that.
               1. SSS* July 31, 2017 at 11:18 am

                  I’ve had that happen too. A pair of men were standing in the front of the elevator, I was in back. The doors opened and they both turned around and beckoned me to go out. However, they were blocking the path. They wouldn’t move AND kept insisting I needed to leave first. I finally had to loudly state that I couldn’t exit since they were in the way so would they PLEASE move out of the elevator?
               2. chomps* July 31, 2017 at 12:46 pm

                  Ugh. A coworker at a former job did this ALL. THE. TIME. But it wasn’t just for women. He’d let everyone off the elevator before he got off, even if he was standing in front and there were 7 or 8 people behind him. It was more work for me to walk around him than for him to just go and let me walk out the way I normally would.
      2. Allison* July 31, 2017 at 8:49 am

         Ughhh that bothers me so much. Just let me hold the door for you, I promise your mother is not going to jump out and beat you with a wooden spoon.
         1. hbc* July 31, 2017 at 9:12 am

            Agh, why do they always invoke their mothers? She’s not here, and if she were here and as narrow-minded as you seem to think, she’d probably be blaming me for grabbing the door in such an unladylike way.
   3. Antilles* July 31, 2017 at 7:39 am

      It’s nice manners to offer the other person to go ahead, but if the other person says go ahead, then just accept it and go. Don’t sit there and start fighting with each other about who’s the nicer and better and more polite, just go through the friggin’ door.
      1. Orlando* July 31, 2017 at 8:11 am

         Nope, totes disagree. Stand there, duke it out. Have a glorious politeness dominance duel. Block the exit from both ways.
         1. Mallory Janis Ian* July 31, 2017 at 8:23 am

            Ha. “Do not test my politeness, good sir!”
         2. MashaKasha* July 31, 2017 at 10:53 am

            Are we holding the bathroom door wide open, too, while we’re having that duel? Because that would be more fun for anyone else trying to use it! And, we’ll both look polite as heck because we’re holding the door for one another!
         3. SusanIvanova* July 31, 2017 at 5:42 pm

            Remember the Looney Tunes gophers? “You first, my dear,” “But, no, no, no. It must be you who goes first!” “Oh, I couldn’t possibly, you must be the first to go.”
      2. OtterB* July 31, 2017 at 8:32 am

         Waiting to get on an elevator, I was once part of a politeness duel that resulted in the elevator door closing and leaving both of us behind. I don’t let that happen any more. I do try not to overcompensate by barging ahead of everyone, though. :-)
         1. Allison* July 31, 2017 at 10:25 am

            Yep, this sort of standoff caused me to miss a train once. The train wasn’t full, the driver either wasn’t paying attention to the back door or didn’t feel like waiting for us to resolve the whole “who gets on first” thing, so he closed the doors and pulled away.
            1. Orlando* July 31, 2017 at 11:51 am

               I shouldn’t laugh so much at these stories.
   4. Sled Dog Mama* July 31, 2017 at 8:41 am

      Reminds me of my grandfather’s saying about right-of-way. Anytime some one said anything about some one not yielding right-of-way (in any context) he would reply “Here lies John Jay, he died defending his right of way.”
      1. JanetM* July 31, 2017 at 8:47 am

         I read somewhere a second line to that: “The right was his, his will was strong, and he’s as dead as if he’d been wrong.”
         1. Marillenbaum* July 31, 2017 at 9:34 am

            My drivers ed teacher had that on a poster, but there the deceased was known as Mike O’Day.
   5. MCMonkeyBean* July 31, 2017 at 9:11 am

      This is bad advice because then everyone would move out of the way and no one would get anywhere. That’s why it’s good to have an idea of who is supposed to have the right of way. It keeps the world moving.
      1. Antilles* July 31, 2017 at 9:27 am

         Especially when driving. It’s incredible that people think stuff like “ignoring the rules of 4-way stop signs” or “stopping at a green light to let someone else through” is being polite – yeah, you’re being nice to the one car you’re letting out, but you’re being a jerk to the other ten cars behind you.
         1. MK* July 31, 2017 at 9:39 am

            On the road, polite means following the signs.
         2. marymoocow* July 31, 2017 at 10:50 am

            One time, a car dropped in a traffic circle to wave me forward. I couldn’t believe it. His attempt at being polite to me risked his safety and the safety of everyone behind him.
            1. marymoocow* July 31, 2017 at 10:51 am

               Sorry, I meant to say the car STOPPED in a traffic circle. That changes the meaning quite a bit.
            2. Allison* July 31, 2017 at 10:57 am

               Right! If you stop to let someone go, but you don’t have the right of way or it’s not obvious to the people behind you why you’re stopping, someone may try to pass you.
         3. Laura (Needs a New Name)* July 31, 2017 at 11:03 am

            The stopping on getting on green so someone can turn left is a Thing in Rhode Island and it terrified me. A COP did it to me once! I was like “don’t you know there are rules ?!”
         4. Mel* July 31, 2017 at 1:33 pm

            I had a driving lesson on Saturday (lived overseas and my US license became very expired), and my instructor lambasted me for waiting too long at stop signs. I assumed it would just be extra courteous if I was slow, but he said it showed that I didn’t know who had the right of way. (Most of his feedback was about how I was too worried about what other drivers might do.)
         5. Always Lurking, Never Commenting* July 31, 2017 at 2:01 pm

            I was once approaching an intersection with a blinking yellow light, the cross road had a blinking red light. The intersection was three lanes wide and someone in the middle lane decided to be “polite” and stop to let the cross traffic go, almost causing an accident since the cars behind them were not expecting a full stop like that. The other two lanes continued as they were supposed to, so the cross traffic could not go anyway.
10. Orlando* July 31, 2017 at 5:12 am

    OP#3 Heh, I can totally see myself doing the weird leaving-with-no-acknowledgmenet thing when I was a little younger and couldn’t speak human. Something like “my role here is finished. My superior will handle the exiting pleasantries. I should vacate the premises to free up space and boost efficiency.”

    OP#5: Gah, no, the standing protocol is fine. A space has to be vacated from within before it can be refilled from the outside.
    1. The Expendable Redshirt* July 31, 2017 at 12:06 pm

       Or like the Clan of the Cavebear book. The Clan doesn’t have a sign for goodbye, because it’s self evident that the person is leaving. Usually, they just walk off after ending a conversation.

       I somewhat wish exiting pleasantries didn’t exist.
11. Claustrophobia Anyone?* July 31, 2017 at 5:42 am

    Number 5
    Bathrooms are smaller rooms, generally, than wherever you are coming from to go into it. The person leaving the bathroom should have the right of way simply because of the awkwardness of stuffing another person into an already small room and then making way for another person to leave. Even if the bathroom is large, think of it that way. Letting a person out of a smaller area before putting another body in said area. Let the person leaving the bathroom out, and then make your way inside. It really is that simple, the same as elevators.
12. Akcipitrokulo* July 31, 2017 at 6:00 am

    In our bathroom, there’s a small hall just before it – so it’s whoever is in the hall first gets right of way!
13. Specialk9* July 31, 2017 at 6:24 am

    Managing upward can be really hard. Figure out for yourself how important the internal project is, and how much a failure will reflect on you. Then let that inform how aggressively you purse things. Alison’s scripts are great though. Understood you need to cancel, but I’m going to do X because of the deadline. If they don’t like X, they’ll reschedule quickly, but more likely they will let you run with it (best case scenario).

    I love the ‘respond by X date or this draft goes final’ email to managers. I wish I had discovered it years ago!
14. AMD* July 31, 2017 at 7:47 am

    #3, I totally did this to someone the other day without meaning to. We had interviewed them in one room, had them wait in the hallway, and then my co-interviewer who was leading said he would tell our interviewee what the next steps were. I realized after I had walked past them talking in the hall that maybe I should had said goodbye or been present for the next steps conversation, but I 1) wasn’t sure if I was needed for that, and 2) had my real work to get back to.

    I apologize on behalf of your interviewers, if you can accept on behalf of my interviewee!
15. JJJJShabado* July 31, 2017 at 8:49 am

    #4, I think Alison’s advice is 100%. From my perspective, I’ve gotten 3 friends interviews in my department. I recused for 2 out of 3. I do think all 3 of my friends are closer friends than what you are describing, but I think that if you think there is information to be gained, then you do not need to recuse. 2 of my friends, I had no information to gained (we were in each others weddings, there’s no way I wouldn’t push hard for them). The third, I do not know quite as well, so I at least wanted to see what he had to say. The interview itself shouldn’t be much different.

    I kind of want to be like Marge Simpson here (“Anyone who beats you up for wearing a shirt isn’t your friend”); because you are not the hiring manager, it should be understood that there is only so much you can do. Only 1 of the 3 got hired. There haven’t been issues socially for me.
16. CM* July 31, 2017 at 9:10 am

    For #2, I would ask, but would assume the answer will be no. I think OP#2 risks a little awkwardness, but otherwise has nothing to lose by asking. I would say something like, “I wanted to make sure you had ample notice before I left so I could complete Project X. Since you announced voluntary redundancies after that, I was wondering if I would be eligible.” Most likely scenario, they will say no, but it’s possible they will say that it does seem unfair and offer something.
17. RabbitRabbit* July 31, 2017 at 9:42 am

    I hate the elevator politeness duel at work. I am a woman who works at a medical center, and employees are supposed to defer to patients and their families/companions when it comes to elevator access, among other things. I’m sure it will feel nice to the older gentleman with a walker and a very unsteady gait to be trying to wave me on/off the elevator before him, but the elevator doors also close quickly (many patients, many floors, must keep moving). I don’t want him getting whisked off to another location or chomped on by an elevator door because he’s not quite in the sensor area to keep it from closing. I usually move quickly but stick an arm out to hold the door while tucking myself around the side of the door to avoid blocking it.
18. ArtK* July 31, 2017 at 9:49 am

    LW #1: Alison’s advice is spot on. I’m going to add just one little thing. Make all of this communication in writing. Yes, you can say it at the time, but follow up with “Per our conversation this morning, if we can’t decide between X and Y by next Monday, I’m going to go with Y.” Always a good idea, but even more important when your partner is a manager. A sad fact of life is that if things fall apart, the manager is in a better position to throw you under the bus unless you have documentation.
    1. DDJ* July 31, 2017 at 4:40 pm

       It’s amazing how much more responses you tend to get when you include that you’ve already made a decision, and X is the thing that WILL BE happening, unless I hear otherwise. I always do these sorts of things by email so that if there’s a complaint about how I’ve done something, I can go back to the person and say “I sent you this notice Y days prior to the decision being finalized, and when I didn’t hear back I proceeded as I’d indicated I would.” The other thing this does, sometimes, is save some time because if the person from whom you’ve requested the input agrees with your decision, they don’t have to take any further action.
19. NW Mossy* July 31, 2017 at 9:56 am

    OP #1, have you been communicating with this manager exclusively over email? If so, try mixing up your communication method and see what you get. Some people will be much more responsive to an in-person “Hey, I need X” than they ever will to multiple emails saying the same, even if you as the sender wouldn’t behave the same way.
    1. Former Retail Manager* July 31, 2017 at 11:12 am

       I couldn’t agree more! Everyone has their preferred methods of communication and, while most of us adapt as needed, some just refuse. My own manager is this way….e-mails aren’t read half the time, just saved in a folder. It often takes walking into the office and having a face-to-face if you need action to occur. Manager is also forgetful, admittedly, so I’ve gone so far as to send Outlook reminders/appointments if I really need a certain action to occur or meeting to be held. If that meeting gets rescheduled, I’ll use verbiage virtually identical to what Alison suggested. I’ve never had any fallout from doing so. Manager is usually relieved that some action can be taken and he can just defer to me regarding whatever that action is.
    2. OP1* July 31, 2017 at 11:30 am

       It’s a great idea, but I’ve tried email, impromptu office visits, scheduled meetings. None of them get a productive response. Lately I’ve been sending an email, getting a non-productive reply (usually letting me know additional considerations they’re considering), which I then follow up with a visit to the office with supporting material about the considerations they’re considering (that so far has yielded nothing), then following that up with an email that offers a course of action, which is ignored. (Repeat process each week) That doesn’t include the 5 meetings that the manager themself has scheduled (all of which have been rescheduled at least once).

       No doubt the manager is busy. And goodness knows, I am not taking this personally… but, I can’t help but start being insulted by the lack of consideration of my time and schedule.
       1. Samata* July 31, 2017 at 1:09 pm

          I can’t say I blame you. I was goign to ask the same question as NW. It can be hard to manage up and even moreso if this project is going to be a part of your evaluation and you ability to get a good review is tied up in her contributions. I don’t have any additional advice – I do think the “hey, I am thinking X will work” will be good enough. She might just be wanting you to take the reigns and it sounds like she is busy. It might not seem fair but this might be a case where you make the suggestions and just get a confirmation from her.
       2. NW Mossy* July 31, 2017 at 5:53 pm

          Rats – hoping I had an easy answer for you! It sounds like the manager you’re working with has analysis paralysis, so take Alison’s suggestion of presenting a fait-accompli proposal as a starting point. My guess is that the foot-dragging is coming from some latent fear that’s associated with actually deciding on a plan and executing it, so if you can uncover what that is, you might be able to allay it.

          In my org, one of the huge obstacles to decision-making is the fear that information that’s forthcoming in the future will drive us in a different direction. As a result, people keep asking for more info or delaying until this or that is done before we commit and we never end up deciding anything because there’s always something new coming down the pike. My strategy with this has been to name the fear for what it is (fear of being wrong) and emphasize that the world won’t cave in if we’re somewhat wrong because we can check in along the way and make adjustments as needed. As a recovering perfectionist, I can totally relate to that impulse, but I’ve had to learn that the world can’t always stop to make sure I’m 100% comfortable.
20. CBH* July 31, 2017 at 10:08 am

    OP2
    I’m not saying this as a form of revenge. It sounds like regardless if you stay at your company or not they have big changes coming their way.

    Is there a way for you to shorten your notice. I understand that you gave 3 months notice and are not burning bridges, but are you really needed there since they are reorganizing things with the lay off. Maybe you can give 1 months notice and take an extended vacation.

    Secondly is there a way you can use this to your advantage to negotiate a bit of a severance package. Are you locked into the 3 months? I mean can you tell them that somethign personal has come up and you want to shorten the transition period. If they insist you stay maybe you can negociate something.

    I agree with Alison that this is all in timing. Unfortunately it doesn’t look to be in your favor. Luckily though you do have a job to go to whereas your coworkers are just starting their job search. Good luck.
21. jj york* July 31, 2017 at 10:17 am

    #5 – same as an elevator. Allow people to move from the smaller space to the larger space first. Presumably, the hallway outside the restroom holds more space than the restroom. Just my engineering take on things.
22. OP #3* July 31, 2017 at 10:24 am

    Thank you Alison and all for the feedback! This eases my mind!
23. Siberian* July 31, 2017 at 10:43 am

    I think Alison’s answer to OP#1 is perfect. It reminds me of dealing with my controlling and passive-aggressive ex-husband (although in this case I don’t hear any indication that this is what’s motivating the OP’s coworker). We needed to sell our house during our divorce, he was the one still living in the house, and he wouldn’t respond to calls from our real estate agent about when they could hold open houses. Since my ex had assaulted me during the breakup I had to keep my distance. Our agent told me, “I can solve this. I’m just going to leave voicemail messages for him saying, ‘If I don’t hear from you by X time, I’ll be holding the open house this Sunday.'” My ex never got back to him and the agent, who had a key, would proceed with the open house. I used this technique whenever we had a scheduling issue with our young daughter, since my ex refused to speak to me for several years. “If I don’t hear back from you then I’ll pick up Daughter on Friday to take her to her doctor’s appointment,” etc. It’s been 20+ years and I still remember that lesson.
    1. JanetInSC* July 31, 2017 at 11:15 pm

       Wow! So sorry you had to deal with that.
24. Kms1025* July 31, 2017 at 10:49 am

    Op #1 I think you really need to be careful since you are dealing with a manager. You don’t want to come across as remotely insubordinate. Who is in charge of this whole project? Maybe ask that person how best to proceed?
    1. OP1* July 31, 2017 at 11:37 am

       The VP of my division is the one running the show. There’s no way that I am going to bring this up to him. At best I will come across as petty and at worst I will appear to be incapable of working with others. I mentioned it in the most positive light in passing to my boss the other day when we were discussing the project generally… as in, Sebastian likes to consider all the angles and has been very thoughtful about what path we should take. But, if we don’t get the ball rolling soon, I’m going to have to raise my concerns to my boss, who hopefully can help turn the motor on.
25. la bella vita* July 31, 2017 at 11:08 am

    Rant somewhat related to #5: the bathrooms in my office have a button to automatically open the door for people with disabilities. The problem is that well over half of the women on my floor use it *every single time* they enter or exit the bathroom. This means the door stays wide open for a good 30 seconds while you’re using the restroom. I find it so creepy and invasive, especially as people are sitting in cubes directly outside the bathroom and are just walking by the open door in general, but apparently everyone else is fine with this.
    1. SSS* July 31, 2017 at 12:02 pm

       Drives me crazy when I see people use the auto-open buttons on doorways for no reason. I watch people walk all the way across a hall to go push the auto-open button and walk back to the door rather than turn a handle. To me, this constant use seems like it will wear out the mechanisms faster and make it unusable at some point (while waiting for repairs) when someone truly needs it.
       1. Allison* July 31, 2017 at 12:34 pm

          Same! I saw people use them all the time in college, and it drove me nuts. It also bothered me on really cold days where the door would stay open for a bit before slowly closing, letting lots of cold air into the lobby. All because someone was too lazy to open the damn door themselves.
       2. Hrovitnir* July 31, 2017 at 5:31 pm

          Huh. I always use the button if they exist, because most of the doors at our university are broken due to people pushing them open when they have a button (there are some signs saying to use the button but people ignore them). Ie: the electrical mechanism no longer works as people have effectively forced the door. This probably doesn’t apply to all mechanisms but it’s made me wary, since it’d suck to get around our uni in a wheelchair.
    2. la bella vita* July 31, 2017 at 12:40 pm

       Yes! I try not to judge individuals, because anyone could have a non-obvious disability, but I totally judge the practice in general. Same goes for people who take the elevator up one floor. Some people of course really need to do things like this, but it’s so inconsiderate of others if you aren’t doing it out of necessity.
26. AdAgencyChick* July 31, 2017 at 11:41 am

    #2, I’d just take this as a lesson moving forward not to give so much notice at future jobs.

    Yes, if you’d given two weeks’ notice, you might have created a tough situation for whatever project you’re working on. But that’s just the normal course of business — people quit, duties get reshuffled, and people deal with it. If an employer has treated me especially well, I might give them a month — but not three.
27. Bookworm* July 31, 2017 at 12:00 pm

    #3: I also wouldn’t read too much into it. Sometimes it’s a genuine miscommunication on their part as to whether that is THE end of the interview or whether the main interviewer has anything else (an assessment, additional paperwork, a quick tour of the facilities) on the agenda or whether the interview has finished.

    There have been a couple of instances where one of the interviewers didn’t realize I was not going to be going by their office/work space in the tour and so no handshake. Again, more of a miscommunication rather than they hate you.
28. Good Afternoon!* July 31, 2017 at 5:32 pm

    I always think of it as the person in the smaller space goes first. As a way to “make room” for the other person.

    Nowadays I usually have kids and diaper bags in tow so it’s usually to everyone’s benefit to prioritize physical space.

Comments are closed.